This page contains discussions that have been archived from Village pump (policy). Please do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to revive any of these discussions, either start a new thread or use the talk page associated with that topic.
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I would like to propose a policy that bans real money financial award constests and campaigns (such as Wikipedia:The Core Contest) to Wikipedians. It offends me greatly that money is being brought into the mix - AND that such a contest is being advertised on my watchlist! We have plenty of ways to thank users for their work here. We have 1000s of editors working hard, not for money, but for the hope to create something useful and dynamic.
Real money creates a very different incentive. Real money means a mega-millionaire could reward a particular POV. Keep real money incentives out of Wikipedia. Kingturtle ( talk) 15:02, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
If a title is screamed, you know it's a bad suggestion :) -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 18:02, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
There has been discussion on Wikipedia talk:Reliable sources regarding what to do with the page. One group of editors wanted to redirect the page to WP:V#Sources. But sentiment has been expressed by some on the talk page that it's not a good idea to eliminate the guideline page. That would also leave Wikipedia:Reliable source examples and Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard out there without a parent page. Reliable sources is such a critical concept for Wikipedia, that it is important to have a guideline page for it. Instead of redirecting the page or making it a disambiguation page, I propose revamping the WP:RS guideline page.
To see how this suggestion could work, see User:Aude/Reliable_sources. Discussion is at Wikipedia_talk:Reliable_sources#Guideline_page_-_proposal. -- Aude ( talk) 16:05, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
There is a discussion started about addressing those who would take entrenched positions and act in ways to block consensus. Notices have also been posted on related behavioral policies and guidelines soliciting participation. Wikipedia talk:Disruptive editing#Blocking consensus. Input and opinions welcomed. Vassyana ( talk) 21:10, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
On the Dancing With The Stars Season Five article, a couple of contributors have stated that reporting anything that occurs on the show's broadcast is considered "original research" unless it's been reported in the press, because we can't reference copyrighted online videos and can't cite a broadcast. In other words, a plot summary of a TV broadcast or film, or even a statement of fact - such as "Jennie Garth did a tango in episode three" - is considered original research unless you cite someone else's formal article (which, natch, cites the original broadcast or film). The trouble, IMO, is that this rule would reduce entertainment articles to irrelevance; you can't write about films and TV shows unless you can cite them directly. One contributor writes that he has no problem with this. Is that desired? 3Tigers ( talk) 03:37, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
A new policy proposal is under way, spun off from Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Durova and Jehochman. It can be found at Wikipedia:Private correspondence/ WP:PRIVATE. Thanks. • Lawrence Cohen 19:41, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
I am writing to get others' opinions about capitalizing "The" when "The" is part of the title of an organization or religious denomination. Specifically, I am under the understanding that "The" is part of the official title of The United Methodist Church. What should be done about this? What can be done about this? Is this such a minor issue that it need not take up our time? I don't want to go willy-nilly changing things, but it seems important to me to use titles properly.
-- Macdonde ( talk) 21:17, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
I was surprised that there wasn't any categories that showed Wikipedians that could be contacted via means like IRC or AIM, so I decided to hunt down some userboxes and populate some. My thinking was that this is useful for collaboration. There are many times where I jump on #wikipedia to ask a quick silly question, like a naming convention, or to see if anyone remembered where a template was that could be used for format some external link. I've listed my own AIM screen name on my userpage and user talk page also as a method of collaboration. I created three categories at this point, Category:Wikipedians by contact information, Category:Wikipedians available through AIM, and Category:Wikipedians available through Jabber, using only templates that actually listed a contactable ID. I got to a template for MSN and saw that a similar category had been removed via CfD here, where it was deleted under the argument that Wikipedia wasn't a social networking site. While I agree with that general idea, I don't think this considered the categories as helping with collaboration in relation to Wikipedia. Before I continue I figured I should get more feedback about this (especially given only five editors were involved in the CfD). -- Ned Scott 06:13, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Per the above suggestion, please continue discussion on WT:CFD#Wikipedians by contact information. -- Ned Scott 03:09, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Now listed at Wikipedia:Deletion review#:Category:Wikipedians by contact information. -- Ned Scott 20:06, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
When I search, the default namespaces for searching are Mainspace, MediaWiki Talk, and Template Talk. As a suggestion, it might make it more useful to search the Mainspace, Image, Portal, and Help spaces. Searching the Wikipedia or MediaWiki space will probably result in non-useful policies (for the casual reader I mean) and archives/subpages/votes. Searching Talk pages of any type really doesn't make sense to me, since why would someone looking for an encyclopedic topic or site policy be interested in a conversation? Is this an issue for here or Meta? Mbisanz ( talk) 06:47, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
There is an advertisment in our watchlists for a contest to improve certain articles. This seems to be the creation of Veropedia contributors who wish to improve the article on Wikipedia (and will pay people to do so) so they can have a Veropedia article on the subject. I have noting against the contest itself, but I am wondering why it is advertised in this way. Surely a message in the watchlist is for big events that could affect the whole community (such as ArbCom elections), not for advertising a project set up by a small group of editors. It'd be similar to advertising a WikiProject in a watchlist message. I'm assuming they have some sort of official permission, though, as this page doesn't seem able to be edited by ordinary users. I think allowing this space to be used for advertising a project sets a bad precedent. Lurker ( said · done) 15:44, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Veropedia is scarcely relevant. All that matters is that Wikipedia articles get improved, and that's a matter that concerns the whole of the Wikipedia community - I want them all to participate. Sure, if you want to move the list of eligible articles over to a project page here, though, go ahead. Moreschi If you've written a quality article... 16:14, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Worth mentioning there's related discussion at Wikipedia talk:The Core Contest - Halo ( talk) 11:54, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Where in the world does one need to have an address to be eligible for the 100$ award? I remember a little contest at the Dilbert blog that needed quite some text to explain what the conditions of the contest were, including "being a US resident", "legally"(!) and "physically"(!!!) I know that Wikimedia coworkers are of course much smarter than Scott Adams when it comes down to overcoming all sorts of practical problems when running a business, but does it really make no difference at all where one lives when participating in this competition? Or can one be disqualified for all sorts of reasons post factum? -- Francis Schonken ( talk) 18:50, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
In the (extensive!) discussion at Wikipedia talk:Requests for mediation/Northern Ireland flag usage, one problem came up for me. Wikipedia:Neutral point of view#Undue weight says that "NPOV says that the article should fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by a reliable source, and should do so in proportion to the prominence of each". So how do we actually measure the prominence of each viewpoint? It seems like any methodology to gauge prominence might be a violation of Wikipedia:No original research, would it not? Andrwsc 22:43, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
If someone complains about an article, and I write in response that their "complaints appear to be baseless", is this uncivil of me?-- Filll 04:09, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
In what way?-- Filll 05:22, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
This issue is an important question for Wikipedia policy. How should administrators and the average user deal with other users who are mentally ill? What qualifies as mental illness? Where should the line be drawn? In terms of this matter, my view may be seen as rather strict. I believe that the contributions of an editor do not factor in their judgment if they have shown to be irrational and abusive towards other users. This is similar to how I think abusive editors (even if they are not mentally ill) should be treated. Currently, the administration seems to take a very laissez-faire approach. This is causing a great deal of harm here at Wikipedia as a whole and to individual users. - Cyborg Ninja 06:35, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
I completely agree with Thor and Luna. There's just no way to tell for sure if someone does or does not have a mental illness, even if we had qualified professionals who were editors here. Also, even if there was a way to tell if an editor has a mental illness, they shouldn't be treated any differently unless their behavior is somehow disruptive to the community. Glass Cobra 16:09, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Since when are the vast majority of Wikipedia users qualified to diagnose anything over the internet? Oh right, we arn't.
Accusing or labeling another user of a mental illness can never be anything but a violation of WP:CIVIL. Jtrainor ( talk) 17:43, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
I see this as an irrelevant issue. Wikipedia editors are volunteers and their treatment is not subject to terms of employment, including consideration for disabilities. Peers should therefore determine their treatment of any editor solely on the basis of their contributions and interaction with others. NIGEDO 78.144.179.191 ( talk) 06:24, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
The question seems loaded. Most abusive editors do not have any recognised mental illness. The interesting borderline case to consider here is: if there's a person who makes useful contributions, or even achieves adminship, while in a good mental state, and then their mental integrity degrades as a result of a illness-induced mood change, acquiring a new illness, or a change of medication, should they be de-adminned or banned, or should we wait for them to seek assistance and recover? If they do recover, do they have a means of requesting re-evaluation on this basis? Dcoetzee 14:10, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I see this as an irrelevant issue. Wikipedia editors are volunteers and their treatment is not subject to terms of employment, including consideration for disabilities. Peers should therefore determine their treatment of any editor solely on the basis of their contributions and interaction with others. NIGEDO 78.144.179.191 ( talk) 06:24, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
I have had a number of articles listed as candidates for transwiki to wiktionary (e.g. cattiness, tattling, face saving). I wonder, when is it appropriate to transwiki and when is it OK to leave here? I was thinking of articles such as yo which give a definition but also some background. Often when an article is transwiki'd, the background is removed. I am aware of the existence of Help:Transwiki but thought more detail might be in order. Sarsaparilla ( talk) 18:31, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
I am not sure where to complain about free cycle so I will put it here. My names is jennifer bryant and i am om the woodlands texas freecycle page. I offered a big screen tv, minor repair, then wanted, garage sale items, a hospital bed and a generator. The moderator, one Maurice, or Lo, or MCM (she has gone by all three ) put if I wanted garage sale items i must want them to resell. I said no, I would like to see if i could get some xmas items out of them, the hospital bed for my extremem bought of pleurisy and i wanted a generator. This "Lo," banned me because I did not agree with her take on my ad and then said my tv was probably not worth anything anyway. so this is freecycle? who determines who wants, who gives away and why they do it? is this some sort of criteria or does the lady have esp. someone has got to regulate these so called moderators who apparently act like they out and out own the free cycle sites. well i don not believe this to be the case and intend to go public with my very rude, adverse situation. what would you do? jennifer bryant phone number removed for privacy reasons Thanks and happy holidays. i will send you my nasty email from said moderator. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.240.222.20 ( talk) 15:10, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
I have been away for a short time, and I find that the {{ speedy}} page appears to have changed; most nominations now come in as "other reason", with the standard reasons now elaborated on the second line. I obviously missed the policy discussion on this. Is there a sensible reason for this change, or it just my PC having a funny turn? -- Anthony.bradbury "talk" 17:11, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
The controversy over at WP:NOR is continuing, and it is coming to somewhat of a head, with the anti-primary-source lobby threatening to end discussion by decree. The issues up for discussion have been summarized on the talk page for those who have not been following the discussion. Basically, the issues are as follows:
Any comments for or against these proposals are welcome on the NOR talk page. COGDEN 00:09, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
Nahh, I had a personal enoucnter with this issue: I got in a nasty argument with an editor who thought that vitamins were a waste of time and money and didn't do anything, and were crank medicine. To support his argument, he provided links to all sorts of literature, some of it possibley peer-reiewed. I donno. It was POV pushing. However, the the problem, as I see it, is not his use of citations, but his POV pushing. Eliminating this kind of use of citations will not eliminate POV-pushing. Don't treat the symptoms (citation use) treat the disease (POV pushing). linas ( talk) 14:50, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
The confusion over the difference between a primary source and a secondary source will not go away until we rename these terms as they are used here to something different from their use in the real world and then tighten up their definitions. I !vote for Wiki Type A sources and Wiki Type B sources (usage: "an eyewitness account is a WTA source"). This will have the additional benefit that editors could not assume that they know what the terms mean when they first come across them and therefore not bother looking them up - as doubtless happens now. — SMALL JIM 16:16, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
What scientists call primary sources are called secondary sources on wikipedia. (Folks enjoy confusing people). -- Kim Bruning 19:19, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
I haven't been able to get an answer anywhere else, so I'll try here: Just because the person who took a photo claims to owns the rights and releases it for public domain does not necessarily mean that person really has the right to do so. Wikipedia acts in good faith in using those, but there may be legal issues with regard to the use of photos of minors. Just because you own the camera that takes a picture doesn't mean you have the legal right to post photos without the consent of the parent or guardian.
This comes up becomes the article on skinny dipping has four images of boys. This seems excessive regardless of the subject matter. Two of the images are paintings. Two of them, however, are photographs of minors with no information regarding authority to distribute photographs of those specific individuals, certainly not parental permission to distribute nude photos of minors. Wryspy 16:59, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
This page contains discussions that have been archived from Village pump (policy). Please do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to revive any of these discussions, either start a new thread or use the talk page associated with that topic.
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I would like to propose a policy that bans real money financial award constests and campaigns (such as Wikipedia:The Core Contest) to Wikipedians. It offends me greatly that money is being brought into the mix - AND that such a contest is being advertised on my watchlist! We have plenty of ways to thank users for their work here. We have 1000s of editors working hard, not for money, but for the hope to create something useful and dynamic.
Real money creates a very different incentive. Real money means a mega-millionaire could reward a particular POV. Keep real money incentives out of Wikipedia. Kingturtle ( talk) 15:02, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
If a title is screamed, you know it's a bad suggestion :) -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 18:02, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
There has been discussion on Wikipedia talk:Reliable sources regarding what to do with the page. One group of editors wanted to redirect the page to WP:V#Sources. But sentiment has been expressed by some on the talk page that it's not a good idea to eliminate the guideline page. That would also leave Wikipedia:Reliable source examples and Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard out there without a parent page. Reliable sources is such a critical concept for Wikipedia, that it is important to have a guideline page for it. Instead of redirecting the page or making it a disambiguation page, I propose revamping the WP:RS guideline page.
To see how this suggestion could work, see User:Aude/Reliable_sources. Discussion is at Wikipedia_talk:Reliable_sources#Guideline_page_-_proposal. -- Aude ( talk) 16:05, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
There is a discussion started about addressing those who would take entrenched positions and act in ways to block consensus. Notices have also been posted on related behavioral policies and guidelines soliciting participation. Wikipedia talk:Disruptive editing#Blocking consensus. Input and opinions welcomed. Vassyana ( talk) 21:10, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
On the Dancing With The Stars Season Five article, a couple of contributors have stated that reporting anything that occurs on the show's broadcast is considered "original research" unless it's been reported in the press, because we can't reference copyrighted online videos and can't cite a broadcast. In other words, a plot summary of a TV broadcast or film, or even a statement of fact - such as "Jennie Garth did a tango in episode three" - is considered original research unless you cite someone else's formal article (which, natch, cites the original broadcast or film). The trouble, IMO, is that this rule would reduce entertainment articles to irrelevance; you can't write about films and TV shows unless you can cite them directly. One contributor writes that he has no problem with this. Is that desired? 3Tigers ( talk) 03:37, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
A new policy proposal is under way, spun off from Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Durova and Jehochman. It can be found at Wikipedia:Private correspondence/ WP:PRIVATE. Thanks. • Lawrence Cohen 19:41, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
I am writing to get others' opinions about capitalizing "The" when "The" is part of the title of an organization or religious denomination. Specifically, I am under the understanding that "The" is part of the official title of The United Methodist Church. What should be done about this? What can be done about this? Is this such a minor issue that it need not take up our time? I don't want to go willy-nilly changing things, but it seems important to me to use titles properly.
-- Macdonde ( talk) 21:17, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
I was surprised that there wasn't any categories that showed Wikipedians that could be contacted via means like IRC or AIM, so I decided to hunt down some userboxes and populate some. My thinking was that this is useful for collaboration. There are many times where I jump on #wikipedia to ask a quick silly question, like a naming convention, or to see if anyone remembered where a template was that could be used for format some external link. I've listed my own AIM screen name on my userpage and user talk page also as a method of collaboration. I created three categories at this point, Category:Wikipedians by contact information, Category:Wikipedians available through AIM, and Category:Wikipedians available through Jabber, using only templates that actually listed a contactable ID. I got to a template for MSN and saw that a similar category had been removed via CfD here, where it was deleted under the argument that Wikipedia wasn't a social networking site. While I agree with that general idea, I don't think this considered the categories as helping with collaboration in relation to Wikipedia. Before I continue I figured I should get more feedback about this (especially given only five editors were involved in the CfD). -- Ned Scott 06:13, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Per the above suggestion, please continue discussion on WT:CFD#Wikipedians by contact information. -- Ned Scott 03:09, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Now listed at Wikipedia:Deletion review#:Category:Wikipedians by contact information. -- Ned Scott 20:06, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
When I search, the default namespaces for searching are Mainspace, MediaWiki Talk, and Template Talk. As a suggestion, it might make it more useful to search the Mainspace, Image, Portal, and Help spaces. Searching the Wikipedia or MediaWiki space will probably result in non-useful policies (for the casual reader I mean) and archives/subpages/votes. Searching Talk pages of any type really doesn't make sense to me, since why would someone looking for an encyclopedic topic or site policy be interested in a conversation? Is this an issue for here or Meta? Mbisanz ( talk) 06:47, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
There is an advertisment in our watchlists for a contest to improve certain articles. This seems to be the creation of Veropedia contributors who wish to improve the article on Wikipedia (and will pay people to do so) so they can have a Veropedia article on the subject. I have noting against the contest itself, but I am wondering why it is advertised in this way. Surely a message in the watchlist is for big events that could affect the whole community (such as ArbCom elections), not for advertising a project set up by a small group of editors. It'd be similar to advertising a WikiProject in a watchlist message. I'm assuming they have some sort of official permission, though, as this page doesn't seem able to be edited by ordinary users. I think allowing this space to be used for advertising a project sets a bad precedent. Lurker ( said · done) 15:44, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Veropedia is scarcely relevant. All that matters is that Wikipedia articles get improved, and that's a matter that concerns the whole of the Wikipedia community - I want them all to participate. Sure, if you want to move the list of eligible articles over to a project page here, though, go ahead. Moreschi If you've written a quality article... 16:14, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Worth mentioning there's related discussion at Wikipedia talk:The Core Contest - Halo ( talk) 11:54, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Where in the world does one need to have an address to be eligible for the 100$ award? I remember a little contest at the Dilbert blog that needed quite some text to explain what the conditions of the contest were, including "being a US resident", "legally"(!) and "physically"(!!!) I know that Wikimedia coworkers are of course much smarter than Scott Adams when it comes down to overcoming all sorts of practical problems when running a business, but does it really make no difference at all where one lives when participating in this competition? Or can one be disqualified for all sorts of reasons post factum? -- Francis Schonken ( talk) 18:50, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
In the (extensive!) discussion at Wikipedia talk:Requests for mediation/Northern Ireland flag usage, one problem came up for me. Wikipedia:Neutral point of view#Undue weight says that "NPOV says that the article should fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by a reliable source, and should do so in proportion to the prominence of each". So how do we actually measure the prominence of each viewpoint? It seems like any methodology to gauge prominence might be a violation of Wikipedia:No original research, would it not? Andrwsc 22:43, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
If someone complains about an article, and I write in response that their "complaints appear to be baseless", is this uncivil of me?-- Filll 04:09, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
In what way?-- Filll 05:22, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
This issue is an important question for Wikipedia policy. How should administrators and the average user deal with other users who are mentally ill? What qualifies as mental illness? Where should the line be drawn? In terms of this matter, my view may be seen as rather strict. I believe that the contributions of an editor do not factor in their judgment if they have shown to be irrational and abusive towards other users. This is similar to how I think abusive editors (even if they are not mentally ill) should be treated. Currently, the administration seems to take a very laissez-faire approach. This is causing a great deal of harm here at Wikipedia as a whole and to individual users. - Cyborg Ninja 06:35, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
I completely agree with Thor and Luna. There's just no way to tell for sure if someone does or does not have a mental illness, even if we had qualified professionals who were editors here. Also, even if there was a way to tell if an editor has a mental illness, they shouldn't be treated any differently unless their behavior is somehow disruptive to the community. Glass Cobra 16:09, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Since when are the vast majority of Wikipedia users qualified to diagnose anything over the internet? Oh right, we arn't.
Accusing or labeling another user of a mental illness can never be anything but a violation of WP:CIVIL. Jtrainor ( talk) 17:43, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
I see this as an irrelevant issue. Wikipedia editors are volunteers and their treatment is not subject to terms of employment, including consideration for disabilities. Peers should therefore determine their treatment of any editor solely on the basis of their contributions and interaction with others. NIGEDO 78.144.179.191 ( talk) 06:24, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
The question seems loaded. Most abusive editors do not have any recognised mental illness. The interesting borderline case to consider here is: if there's a person who makes useful contributions, or even achieves adminship, while in a good mental state, and then their mental integrity degrades as a result of a illness-induced mood change, acquiring a new illness, or a change of medication, should they be de-adminned or banned, or should we wait for them to seek assistance and recover? If they do recover, do they have a means of requesting re-evaluation on this basis? Dcoetzee 14:10, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I see this as an irrelevant issue. Wikipedia editors are volunteers and their treatment is not subject to terms of employment, including consideration for disabilities. Peers should therefore determine their treatment of any editor solely on the basis of their contributions and interaction with others. NIGEDO 78.144.179.191 ( talk) 06:24, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
I have had a number of articles listed as candidates for transwiki to wiktionary (e.g. cattiness, tattling, face saving). I wonder, when is it appropriate to transwiki and when is it OK to leave here? I was thinking of articles such as yo which give a definition but also some background. Often when an article is transwiki'd, the background is removed. I am aware of the existence of Help:Transwiki but thought more detail might be in order. Sarsaparilla ( talk) 18:31, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
I am not sure where to complain about free cycle so I will put it here. My names is jennifer bryant and i am om the woodlands texas freecycle page. I offered a big screen tv, minor repair, then wanted, garage sale items, a hospital bed and a generator. The moderator, one Maurice, or Lo, or MCM (she has gone by all three ) put if I wanted garage sale items i must want them to resell. I said no, I would like to see if i could get some xmas items out of them, the hospital bed for my extremem bought of pleurisy and i wanted a generator. This "Lo," banned me because I did not agree with her take on my ad and then said my tv was probably not worth anything anyway. so this is freecycle? who determines who wants, who gives away and why they do it? is this some sort of criteria or does the lady have esp. someone has got to regulate these so called moderators who apparently act like they out and out own the free cycle sites. well i don not believe this to be the case and intend to go public with my very rude, adverse situation. what would you do? jennifer bryant phone number removed for privacy reasons Thanks and happy holidays. i will send you my nasty email from said moderator. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.240.222.20 ( talk) 15:10, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
I have been away for a short time, and I find that the {{ speedy}} page appears to have changed; most nominations now come in as "other reason", with the standard reasons now elaborated on the second line. I obviously missed the policy discussion on this. Is there a sensible reason for this change, or it just my PC having a funny turn? -- Anthony.bradbury "talk" 17:11, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
The controversy over at WP:NOR is continuing, and it is coming to somewhat of a head, with the anti-primary-source lobby threatening to end discussion by decree. The issues up for discussion have been summarized on the talk page for those who have not been following the discussion. Basically, the issues are as follows:
Any comments for or against these proposals are welcome on the NOR talk page. COGDEN 00:09, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
Nahh, I had a personal enoucnter with this issue: I got in a nasty argument with an editor who thought that vitamins were a waste of time and money and didn't do anything, and were crank medicine. To support his argument, he provided links to all sorts of literature, some of it possibley peer-reiewed. I donno. It was POV pushing. However, the the problem, as I see it, is not his use of citations, but his POV pushing. Eliminating this kind of use of citations will not eliminate POV-pushing. Don't treat the symptoms (citation use) treat the disease (POV pushing). linas ( talk) 14:50, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
The confusion over the difference between a primary source and a secondary source will not go away until we rename these terms as they are used here to something different from their use in the real world and then tighten up their definitions. I !vote for Wiki Type A sources and Wiki Type B sources (usage: "an eyewitness account is a WTA source"). This will have the additional benefit that editors could not assume that they know what the terms mean when they first come across them and therefore not bother looking them up - as doubtless happens now. — SMALL JIM 16:16, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
What scientists call primary sources are called secondary sources on wikipedia. (Folks enjoy confusing people). -- Kim Bruning 19:19, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
I haven't been able to get an answer anywhere else, so I'll try here: Just because the person who took a photo claims to owns the rights and releases it for public domain does not necessarily mean that person really has the right to do so. Wikipedia acts in good faith in using those, but there may be legal issues with regard to the use of photos of minors. Just because you own the camera that takes a picture doesn't mean you have the legal right to post photos without the consent of the parent or guardian.
This comes up becomes the article on skinny dipping has four images of boys. This seems excessive regardless of the subject matter. Two of the images are paintings. Two of them, however, are photographs of minors with no information regarding authority to distribute photographs of those specific individuals, certainly not parental permission to distribute nude photos of minors. Wryspy 16:59, 3 December 2007 (UTC)