This page contains discussions that have been archived from Village pump (policy). Please do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to revive any of these discussions, either start a new thread or use the talk page associated with that topic.
< Older discussions · Archives: A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S, T, U, V, W, X, Y, Z, AA, AB, AC, AD, AE, AF, AG, AH, AI, AJ, AK, AL, AM, AN, AO, AP, AQ, AR, AS, AT, AU, AV, AW, AX, AY, AZ, BA, BB, BC, BD, BE, BF, BG, BH, BI, BJ, BK, BL, BM, BN, BO · 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 142, 143, 144, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150, 151, 152, 153, 154, 155, 156, 157, 158, 159, 160, 161, 162, 163, 164, 165, 166, 167, 168, 169, 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 175, 176, 177, 178, 179, 180, 181, 182, 183, 184, 185, 186, 187, 188, 189, 190, 191
There is a proposal to replace the primary, secondary and tertiary sources section. It has gained a broad local consensus as a move in the proper direction, after a long period of the policy being edit-protected. Please review the discussion and proposal, and leave a comment whether you agree or disagree. An RfC has also been posted to draw outside comment. Cheers! Vassyana 08:40, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
If I find a reproduction in a book (which is still within the copyright period) of a picture which is old enough to be out of copyright, can I reproduce it on Wikipedia?
Apologies if this question has already been asked and answered. -- rossb 11:36, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
A couple of questions have arisen to me regarding this edit [1]. While this statement may be true (i.e. that the file is obtainable using eMule or some similar file sharing mechanism), is it appropriate to mention it? And while Wikipedia isn't censored, is this type of statement implicitly (or explicitly) promoting the theft of intellectual property as this particular product (the miniature ruleset I Ain't Been Shot, Mum!) is still being sold commercially? Thanks. --Craw-daddy | T | 13:35, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Hello All---
I was directed here by a deleting bot. I had tried to add an external link to the sci fi show, "Eureka" article, and the bot message said something to the effect that this is a site frequently brought up/ suitable for deletion. I enjoy the site, which is why I posted it, but I'm not heavily invested here. The site is www.visiteureka.net It is a site that seems to be semi-officially run/moderated by people connected with the show, ie. it has some official facts, including interviews with actors, not included on the site run by the sci fi channel (which is on the list of external links), it does have a forum for fans, but one does NOT need a password to read the posts or to enter any area of the site, and I am not connected to the site personally at all. It seems to me that this satisfies the conditions under which a link may be posted. Please advise. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.239.140.35 ( talk) 02:11, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Repectfully, I think it reverted because I have now discovered that there was a huge fight about it on the Eureka discussion page, and it automatically reverts that link. I wrote a note there, and hopefully, the writer(s) of the article or those more passionate than I will rethink their reasoning. But thank you, Some Guy 21:36 (EST) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.239.140.35 ( talk)
I have edited two talk pages. Talk:Steve Ballmer and Talk:Russia. I did this with every intention of helping, but I am puzzled as to Wikipedias policy on this. Could you help me?-- Dwarf Kirlston 01:17, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
First of all I did not seek consensus. I worked hard and honestly to reformat/refactor/whatever those talk pages. I (did) not wish to undo because I consider that the work I did was useful.
The problem I was trying to fix was (from WP:TALK)
The First which (nearly) everyone ignores and the second where people instead Make a new heading for an old topic whenever they feel like the discussion was not going according to their plan - It would be as if I made another question (the same really) just because I wanted people to think it was a new topic and therefore deserved thought.I believe WP:RTP is in fact what I was doing when pages got too long and ugly. from WP:RTP
from WP:AATP
Could (for Russia) the talk page be made into a disambiguation page to the talk of different topics (especially History and Demography which extremely long). Someguy0830 called it (my attempt at structure) admirable. As I said, I intended to help. New topics should go at the bottom, and I agree! I have kept it so that it stays like that, but within the topics of history, within the topics of religion, rather than letting separate discussion of the same topic get spread out all over the talk page.-- Dwarf Kirlston 12:40, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
My impression was that deleting comments on talk pages was controversial, and was only suitable in cases of death threats, private personal information, racist abuse, etc. Yet at Wikipedia Talk:Spoiler, we've had a couple of editors deleting a comment which accused one of them of 'unprincipled behavior'. See the diffs here and here.-- Nydas (Talk) 17:01, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Please comment here. Thanks ScienceApologist 23:09, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Something like [4] is bad, right? Anyone care to revert? -- NE2 21:12, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
This user has placed the scroll bar back on the page. It is certainly out of place there. I am relatively new to Wikipedia and I wondered what the next step would be if the person refuses to comply with the prevailing view? D3av 10:11, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
Over at the Meerkat Manor article, we are running into an issue of what consitutes original research and I'm seeking some additional guidance from folks not emotionally involved in the article. For the short background, Meerkat Manor is a documentary series about the Whiskers and several other meerkat groups being researched by the Kalahari Meerkat Project (KMP). Since the show is a documentary about real life meerkats, it was agreed by a general consensus that the KMP website is a valid and extremely useful source for providing additional information about the meerkats on the show, particularly updates on their lives (or deaths) between seasons and on the count of meerkats in each group.
The problem, however, is that Animal Planet has renamed several "major" meerkats, but neither Animal Planet nor KMP have released any kind of list that states "X meerkat on the show's real name is Y." However, in several cases, you can easily figure out a meerkat's real name just by looking at the KMP site. For example, on the show, a meerkat named Maybelline left the Whiskers, taking some other meerkats with her, in a split to be a dominant female of a new group called the Aztecs. On the KMP site, in the information about the Aztecs, it states "the Aztecs group was formed in March 2007 as a 15-strong splinter of the Whiskers family, but all adult males returned to the Whiskers within a month. Since then, the Aztecs have consisted of three adult females, led by the oldest, Monkulus, and four pups." Monkulus, therefore, equals Maybelline. For a simpler example, on the show the dominant male of the Commandoes is Hannibal, a big one-eyed meerkat. The KMP site explicitly states that the Commandoes on the show are "played" by the dominant couple of the Vivian research group, which would make Hannibal's real name "Jim Bob" (further evidenced by a picture of Jim Bob, who is a big one-eyed male.
My question is, does this constitute original research because the site does not specifically say "Jim Bob's name was changed the Hannibal" on the show? Must there be a verifiable source that does stay a rename exactly before we can use the information, even if it "seems obvious"?
A secondary question relates to "spoilers" and namely, do non-fiction TV show articles need to be tagged with spoilers if we are including publicly released info from AP or KMP, such as when the article noted Flower's death weeks before the episode aired in the US because AP made press releases about it and the episodes all air in the UK before they air in the US? In general the consensus on the article has been "no spoiler tags" per the guidelines, but we have at least one editor who disagrees (though he doesn't actually contribute to the article, and is speaking solely as a fan). His latest round of arguments can be found on my talk page since he took it there for some reason. Collectonian 01:51, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
The article Anzu Mazaki has eight images. WhisperToMe and I have come to an agreement to remove two images, but that still leaves six. WTM argues that the six images are justified as the media and the appearances differ and that removing the images would deterimental to the reader's understanding of Anzu. However, I think that WP:NFCC#3a limits this very severely. Would like a third opinion and whether my interpretation of NFCC is correct or not. hbdragon88 23:43, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
The character design sketch was speedied, so we just have three manga pics (two in color, one in B&W), one from the 1st anime, and one from the 2nd anime. WhisperToMe 04:40, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
I decided that I do not mind if the B&W is gone - I still like the other manga color image since the face in the first chapter is drawn differently than the faces in the rest of the series; even the animated series do not have an equivalent. WhisperToMe 19:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Is there any particular reason why it's not possible to geotag an image when uploading it? Surely the upload page should ask for lat/long by default? It also seems impossible to geotag photos that have already been uploaded. Or am I missing something? Thanks Socrates2008 05:56, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia talk:Wheel war#Request for comments: Wheel war where a discussion about how we define wheel wars is taking place. A wheel war is a struggle between administrators who undo each other's actions. Wheel wars are extremely harmful to the project. - Jehochman Talk 14:35, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
I have some question regarding the following passage:
In preparation for the game, developers gathered together materials from all manner of sources—"mountains of photographs snapped from ventures outside the dark confines of our office...huge numbers of nature books that our artists use for recreating authentic trees, grasses, and plants." "Texture images, reference photography of architecture, natural formations" that the team has drawn from personal trips overseas also formed a part of the team's sources. "We pull," said producer Gavin Carter, "from as many sources as we can get our hands on."[19] Where, in Morrowind, the chief graphical focus of the team was on water, the chief focus in Oblivion lay on its forests, its "big, photorealistic forests".[21] The inclusion of procedural content tools allowed for the creation of realistic environments at much faster rates than was the case with Morrowind.[22] Using IDV’s SpeedTree technology, for example, Bethesda artists were able to "quickly generate complex and organic tree shapes with relative ease". Bethesda's Noah Berry attests that "using parent/child hierarchies and iterative branch levels comprised of highly modifiable cylinder primitives, an entire tree shape can be created in a manner of minutes, just by adjusting numerical values and tweaking spline curve handles".[23] Instead of Morrowind's artificially smoothed-over terrain, erosion algorithms incorporated in the landscape generation tools allowed for the creation of "craggy mountain vistas" quickly and easily.
I believe the author relies too heavily on the developers (quoted) to make his points for him. Which policy(-ies) apply? Manual of Style? NPOV? SharkD 20:16, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Ahem. I've edited the section now. I do hope it meets your standards.
While designing Oblivion's setting, developers worked from personal travel photographs, nature books, texture images, and reference photographs of architecture and nature
; "as many sources," said team producer Gavin Carter, as the team could obtain.[19] Procedural content generation tools used in production allowed for the creation of realistic environments at much faster rates than was the case with Morrowind.[21] Erosion algorithms incorporated in the landscape generation tools allowed for the creation of craggy terrain quickly and easily, replacing Morrowind's artificially smoothed-over terrain.[21] Following the shift in the dominant focus of the Bethesda graphics team from water to flora, a number of technologies were enlisted to aid in the production of large and diverse forests.[22] One such was IDV’s SpeedTree package, which allowed a single programmer to generate a complete and detailed tree model "in a manner of minutes" through the adjustment of set values.[23]
I apologize for whatever inconveniences I might have caused. Geuiwogbil ( Talk) 21:33, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Regarding Wikipedia:Soft redirect and Category:Wikipedia soft redirects.
Apart from the special case of Wiktionary, I can't see a lot of guidance regarding when it is appropriate to create soft redirects to other wikis.
I'm particularly interested in the case of "fan" wikis, e.g. WoWWiki. WoWWiki is a wiki dedicated to World of Warcraft and other games in the Warcraft series, licensed under the GFDL and hosted and run by Wikia.
Now, with World of Warcraft being a hugely successful and popular game, we get lots of people contributing detailed content regarding its gameplay and lore to Wikipedia. And then there is conflict as to whether the subjects of these articles are notable, and some end up being proposed for deletion.
See, for example, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Warcraft character articles, in which approximately 50 articles were nominated for deletion. This discussion ended in no consensus but many of the individual articles have now been nominated separately.
Anyway, I'm thinking that a lot of aggravation and biting could be avoided if "fancruft" articles like this could be soft-redirected to WoWWiki and other similar wikis hosted by Wikia? Anyone who wanted to contribute to such articles would be smoothly led to another Free Content wiki where their contributions would be welcomed with open arms rather than attacked as being "cruft". Broad articles in Wikipedia could have names of characters, places, etc. as links which lead to further information offsite.
What does anyone think? -- Stormie 00:04, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Over a year back I was involved in some hand-wrangling about notability standards for fictional entities. The Warcraft character AfD above was one of the trial balloons (that blew up in my face). Nowadays, the notability standard for fiction is much more akin to what I had hoped for then: that multiple secondary sources that establish notability is the sine qua non of encyclopedic coverage.
That said, I greatly hesitate to link Wikia so prominently on Wikipedia. Wikia is Mr. Wales' attempt to turn the wiki model into a profitable venture. Wikipedia has strongly resisted all attempts at commercial endorsements, and should resist promoting for-profit wikis even if they perform the laudable task of finding a home for articles that do not fit Wikipedia's scope. Nor do I think a soft-redirect to multiple targets, where they exist in wiki-form, would suffice, for what then are the standards used to decide which fan-wikis are worthy? A game like Guild Wars, the last I looked into it, had half a dozen fan-created wikis. Oblivion, and The Elder Scrolls in general, have over a dozen wikis. I would suggest, as a means of avoiding a future mess, of limiting soft redirects to Wikimedia projects.
On the issue of interacting with editors who persist in creating overly detailed in-universe articles on facets of a fictional work, I would say that these editors can be gently nudged in the direction of Wikia or whichever wiki best suits the purpose. This can surely be done without biting them. — Kaustuv Chaudhuri 12:05, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
I got involved in Mitch Clem at AfD. Please look at the references and let me know whether you think I'm right on his notability. He is not an important topic, but this illustrates an important application of the BIO and Notability rules. I think that the Minnesota Public Radio spot is just about enough, then the mention in PC World, while not in-depth clearly is saying this person is noticed. The other comixtalk source is marginal, but I think that it adds to credibilty. It appeares that Comixtalk has a blog section, but where he is covered is more akin to an online magazine in a scheduled and dated issue. Cheers! -- Kevin Murray 15:39, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
There has been a question raised at the AfD for Mitch Clem (see above) regarding the correct use of self published autobiographical materials used in articles. Please see WP:SELFPUB an excerpt from that guideline below. I have mixed feeling on how much of an article should be self refeenced, but I don't at this point see a prohibition. Is there another controlling policy page? -- Kevin Murray 18:03, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Material from self-published and questionable sources may be used as sources in articles about themselves, so long as:
What percentage of the "facts" are should be supported by independent sources? What does primarily mean? 90%? 51%? Clearly we have differing opinions among our evaluators. -- Kevin Murray 18:03, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
I've started a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Non-free content#Is a backlink required by NFCC 10(c)? regarding what seems to be a discrepancy between the current wording of the non-free content criteria and BetacommandBot's interpretation of them. Any opinions on the matter would be most welcome. — Ilmari Karonen ( talk) 00:01, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
This page contains discussions that have been archived from Village pump (policy). Please do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to revive any of these discussions, either start a new thread or use the talk page associated with that topic.
< Older discussions · Archives: A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S, T, U, V, W, X, Y, Z, AA, AB, AC, AD, AE, AF, AG, AH, AI, AJ, AK, AL, AM, AN, AO, AP, AQ, AR, AS, AT, AU, AV, AW, AX, AY, AZ, BA, BB, BC, BD, BE, BF, BG, BH, BI, BJ, BK, BL, BM, BN, BO · 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 142, 143, 144, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150, 151, 152, 153, 154, 155, 156, 157, 158, 159, 160, 161, 162, 163, 164, 165, 166, 167, 168, 169, 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 175, 176, 177, 178, 179, 180, 181, 182, 183, 184, 185, 186, 187, 188, 189, 190, 191
There is a proposal to replace the primary, secondary and tertiary sources section. It has gained a broad local consensus as a move in the proper direction, after a long period of the policy being edit-protected. Please review the discussion and proposal, and leave a comment whether you agree or disagree. An RfC has also been posted to draw outside comment. Cheers! Vassyana 08:40, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
If I find a reproduction in a book (which is still within the copyright period) of a picture which is old enough to be out of copyright, can I reproduce it on Wikipedia?
Apologies if this question has already been asked and answered. -- rossb 11:36, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
A couple of questions have arisen to me regarding this edit [1]. While this statement may be true (i.e. that the file is obtainable using eMule or some similar file sharing mechanism), is it appropriate to mention it? And while Wikipedia isn't censored, is this type of statement implicitly (or explicitly) promoting the theft of intellectual property as this particular product (the miniature ruleset I Ain't Been Shot, Mum!) is still being sold commercially? Thanks. --Craw-daddy | T | 13:35, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Hello All---
I was directed here by a deleting bot. I had tried to add an external link to the sci fi show, "Eureka" article, and the bot message said something to the effect that this is a site frequently brought up/ suitable for deletion. I enjoy the site, which is why I posted it, but I'm not heavily invested here. The site is www.visiteureka.net It is a site that seems to be semi-officially run/moderated by people connected with the show, ie. it has some official facts, including interviews with actors, not included on the site run by the sci fi channel (which is on the list of external links), it does have a forum for fans, but one does NOT need a password to read the posts or to enter any area of the site, and I am not connected to the site personally at all. It seems to me that this satisfies the conditions under which a link may be posted. Please advise. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.239.140.35 ( talk) 02:11, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Repectfully, I think it reverted because I have now discovered that there was a huge fight about it on the Eureka discussion page, and it automatically reverts that link. I wrote a note there, and hopefully, the writer(s) of the article or those more passionate than I will rethink their reasoning. But thank you, Some Guy 21:36 (EST) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.239.140.35 ( talk)
I have edited two talk pages. Talk:Steve Ballmer and Talk:Russia. I did this with every intention of helping, but I am puzzled as to Wikipedias policy on this. Could you help me?-- Dwarf Kirlston 01:17, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
First of all I did not seek consensus. I worked hard and honestly to reformat/refactor/whatever those talk pages. I (did) not wish to undo because I consider that the work I did was useful.
The problem I was trying to fix was (from WP:TALK)
The First which (nearly) everyone ignores and the second where people instead Make a new heading for an old topic whenever they feel like the discussion was not going according to their plan - It would be as if I made another question (the same really) just because I wanted people to think it was a new topic and therefore deserved thought.I believe WP:RTP is in fact what I was doing when pages got too long and ugly. from WP:RTP
from WP:AATP
Could (for Russia) the talk page be made into a disambiguation page to the talk of different topics (especially History and Demography which extremely long). Someguy0830 called it (my attempt at structure) admirable. As I said, I intended to help. New topics should go at the bottom, and I agree! I have kept it so that it stays like that, but within the topics of history, within the topics of religion, rather than letting separate discussion of the same topic get spread out all over the talk page.-- Dwarf Kirlston 12:40, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
My impression was that deleting comments on talk pages was controversial, and was only suitable in cases of death threats, private personal information, racist abuse, etc. Yet at Wikipedia Talk:Spoiler, we've had a couple of editors deleting a comment which accused one of them of 'unprincipled behavior'. See the diffs here and here.-- Nydas (Talk) 17:01, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Please comment here. Thanks ScienceApologist 23:09, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Something like [4] is bad, right? Anyone care to revert? -- NE2 21:12, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
This user has placed the scroll bar back on the page. It is certainly out of place there. I am relatively new to Wikipedia and I wondered what the next step would be if the person refuses to comply with the prevailing view? D3av 10:11, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
Over at the Meerkat Manor article, we are running into an issue of what consitutes original research and I'm seeking some additional guidance from folks not emotionally involved in the article. For the short background, Meerkat Manor is a documentary series about the Whiskers and several other meerkat groups being researched by the Kalahari Meerkat Project (KMP). Since the show is a documentary about real life meerkats, it was agreed by a general consensus that the KMP website is a valid and extremely useful source for providing additional information about the meerkats on the show, particularly updates on their lives (or deaths) between seasons and on the count of meerkats in each group.
The problem, however, is that Animal Planet has renamed several "major" meerkats, but neither Animal Planet nor KMP have released any kind of list that states "X meerkat on the show's real name is Y." However, in several cases, you can easily figure out a meerkat's real name just by looking at the KMP site. For example, on the show, a meerkat named Maybelline left the Whiskers, taking some other meerkats with her, in a split to be a dominant female of a new group called the Aztecs. On the KMP site, in the information about the Aztecs, it states "the Aztecs group was formed in March 2007 as a 15-strong splinter of the Whiskers family, but all adult males returned to the Whiskers within a month. Since then, the Aztecs have consisted of three adult females, led by the oldest, Monkulus, and four pups." Monkulus, therefore, equals Maybelline. For a simpler example, on the show the dominant male of the Commandoes is Hannibal, a big one-eyed meerkat. The KMP site explicitly states that the Commandoes on the show are "played" by the dominant couple of the Vivian research group, which would make Hannibal's real name "Jim Bob" (further evidenced by a picture of Jim Bob, who is a big one-eyed male.
My question is, does this constitute original research because the site does not specifically say "Jim Bob's name was changed the Hannibal" on the show? Must there be a verifiable source that does stay a rename exactly before we can use the information, even if it "seems obvious"?
A secondary question relates to "spoilers" and namely, do non-fiction TV show articles need to be tagged with spoilers if we are including publicly released info from AP or KMP, such as when the article noted Flower's death weeks before the episode aired in the US because AP made press releases about it and the episodes all air in the UK before they air in the US? In general the consensus on the article has been "no spoiler tags" per the guidelines, but we have at least one editor who disagrees (though he doesn't actually contribute to the article, and is speaking solely as a fan). His latest round of arguments can be found on my talk page since he took it there for some reason. Collectonian 01:51, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
The article Anzu Mazaki has eight images. WhisperToMe and I have come to an agreement to remove two images, but that still leaves six. WTM argues that the six images are justified as the media and the appearances differ and that removing the images would deterimental to the reader's understanding of Anzu. However, I think that WP:NFCC#3a limits this very severely. Would like a third opinion and whether my interpretation of NFCC is correct or not. hbdragon88 23:43, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
The character design sketch was speedied, so we just have three manga pics (two in color, one in B&W), one from the 1st anime, and one from the 2nd anime. WhisperToMe 04:40, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
I decided that I do not mind if the B&W is gone - I still like the other manga color image since the face in the first chapter is drawn differently than the faces in the rest of the series; even the animated series do not have an equivalent. WhisperToMe 19:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Is there any particular reason why it's not possible to geotag an image when uploading it? Surely the upload page should ask for lat/long by default? It also seems impossible to geotag photos that have already been uploaded. Or am I missing something? Thanks Socrates2008 05:56, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia talk:Wheel war#Request for comments: Wheel war where a discussion about how we define wheel wars is taking place. A wheel war is a struggle between administrators who undo each other's actions. Wheel wars are extremely harmful to the project. - Jehochman Talk 14:35, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
I have some question regarding the following passage:
In preparation for the game, developers gathered together materials from all manner of sources—"mountains of photographs snapped from ventures outside the dark confines of our office...huge numbers of nature books that our artists use for recreating authentic trees, grasses, and plants." "Texture images, reference photography of architecture, natural formations" that the team has drawn from personal trips overseas also formed a part of the team's sources. "We pull," said producer Gavin Carter, "from as many sources as we can get our hands on."[19] Where, in Morrowind, the chief graphical focus of the team was on water, the chief focus in Oblivion lay on its forests, its "big, photorealistic forests".[21] The inclusion of procedural content tools allowed for the creation of realistic environments at much faster rates than was the case with Morrowind.[22] Using IDV’s SpeedTree technology, for example, Bethesda artists were able to "quickly generate complex and organic tree shapes with relative ease". Bethesda's Noah Berry attests that "using parent/child hierarchies and iterative branch levels comprised of highly modifiable cylinder primitives, an entire tree shape can be created in a manner of minutes, just by adjusting numerical values and tweaking spline curve handles".[23] Instead of Morrowind's artificially smoothed-over terrain, erosion algorithms incorporated in the landscape generation tools allowed for the creation of "craggy mountain vistas" quickly and easily.
I believe the author relies too heavily on the developers (quoted) to make his points for him. Which policy(-ies) apply? Manual of Style? NPOV? SharkD 20:16, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Ahem. I've edited the section now. I do hope it meets your standards.
While designing Oblivion's setting, developers worked from personal travel photographs, nature books, texture images, and reference photographs of architecture and nature
; "as many sources," said team producer Gavin Carter, as the team could obtain.[19] Procedural content generation tools used in production allowed for the creation of realistic environments at much faster rates than was the case with Morrowind.[21] Erosion algorithms incorporated in the landscape generation tools allowed for the creation of craggy terrain quickly and easily, replacing Morrowind's artificially smoothed-over terrain.[21] Following the shift in the dominant focus of the Bethesda graphics team from water to flora, a number of technologies were enlisted to aid in the production of large and diverse forests.[22] One such was IDV’s SpeedTree package, which allowed a single programmer to generate a complete and detailed tree model "in a manner of minutes" through the adjustment of set values.[23]
I apologize for whatever inconveniences I might have caused. Geuiwogbil ( Talk) 21:33, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Regarding Wikipedia:Soft redirect and Category:Wikipedia soft redirects.
Apart from the special case of Wiktionary, I can't see a lot of guidance regarding when it is appropriate to create soft redirects to other wikis.
I'm particularly interested in the case of "fan" wikis, e.g. WoWWiki. WoWWiki is a wiki dedicated to World of Warcraft and other games in the Warcraft series, licensed under the GFDL and hosted and run by Wikia.
Now, with World of Warcraft being a hugely successful and popular game, we get lots of people contributing detailed content regarding its gameplay and lore to Wikipedia. And then there is conflict as to whether the subjects of these articles are notable, and some end up being proposed for deletion.
See, for example, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Warcraft character articles, in which approximately 50 articles were nominated for deletion. This discussion ended in no consensus but many of the individual articles have now been nominated separately.
Anyway, I'm thinking that a lot of aggravation and biting could be avoided if "fancruft" articles like this could be soft-redirected to WoWWiki and other similar wikis hosted by Wikia? Anyone who wanted to contribute to such articles would be smoothly led to another Free Content wiki where their contributions would be welcomed with open arms rather than attacked as being "cruft". Broad articles in Wikipedia could have names of characters, places, etc. as links which lead to further information offsite.
What does anyone think? -- Stormie 00:04, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Over a year back I was involved in some hand-wrangling about notability standards for fictional entities. The Warcraft character AfD above was one of the trial balloons (that blew up in my face). Nowadays, the notability standard for fiction is much more akin to what I had hoped for then: that multiple secondary sources that establish notability is the sine qua non of encyclopedic coverage.
That said, I greatly hesitate to link Wikia so prominently on Wikipedia. Wikia is Mr. Wales' attempt to turn the wiki model into a profitable venture. Wikipedia has strongly resisted all attempts at commercial endorsements, and should resist promoting for-profit wikis even if they perform the laudable task of finding a home for articles that do not fit Wikipedia's scope. Nor do I think a soft-redirect to multiple targets, where they exist in wiki-form, would suffice, for what then are the standards used to decide which fan-wikis are worthy? A game like Guild Wars, the last I looked into it, had half a dozen fan-created wikis. Oblivion, and The Elder Scrolls in general, have over a dozen wikis. I would suggest, as a means of avoiding a future mess, of limiting soft redirects to Wikimedia projects.
On the issue of interacting with editors who persist in creating overly detailed in-universe articles on facets of a fictional work, I would say that these editors can be gently nudged in the direction of Wikia or whichever wiki best suits the purpose. This can surely be done without biting them. — Kaustuv Chaudhuri 12:05, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
I got involved in Mitch Clem at AfD. Please look at the references and let me know whether you think I'm right on his notability. He is not an important topic, but this illustrates an important application of the BIO and Notability rules. I think that the Minnesota Public Radio spot is just about enough, then the mention in PC World, while not in-depth clearly is saying this person is noticed. The other comixtalk source is marginal, but I think that it adds to credibilty. It appeares that Comixtalk has a blog section, but where he is covered is more akin to an online magazine in a scheduled and dated issue. Cheers! -- Kevin Murray 15:39, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
There has been a question raised at the AfD for Mitch Clem (see above) regarding the correct use of self published autobiographical materials used in articles. Please see WP:SELFPUB an excerpt from that guideline below. I have mixed feeling on how much of an article should be self refeenced, but I don't at this point see a prohibition. Is there another controlling policy page? -- Kevin Murray 18:03, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Material from self-published and questionable sources may be used as sources in articles about themselves, so long as:
What percentage of the "facts" are should be supported by independent sources? What does primarily mean? 90%? 51%? Clearly we have differing opinions among our evaluators. -- Kevin Murray 18:03, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
I've started a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Non-free content#Is a backlink required by NFCC 10(c)? regarding what seems to be a discrepancy between the current wording of the non-free content criteria and BetacommandBot's interpretation of them. Any opinions on the matter would be most welcome. — Ilmari Karonen ( talk) 00:01, 8 November 2007 (UTC)