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The <ref>/<references> system was a godsend, and I kiss the devs every day for it. I am asking for a second, identical system - one for footnotes, which would use <note>/<notelist> or what not. For example, take a look at List of Governors of Alabama. The only use for references is as footnotes to the long table; I intend to start using this on my congressional tables articles, to replace things like the 'passages table' ( This is an example, the senate part).
However, this ceases to be great when you have a situation with notes AND references, an example being List of Governors of Colorado.
Should I submit a bugzilla feature request, or what? This would be great for list/table articles, where we need both footnotes and separate references. I think it's unfair to the reader to mix the two, especially in the common tiny font size for references.
An added bonus would be if we could trigger refs from inside notes, keeping the list/table that much cleaner. -- Golbez 22:03, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
I was wondering, if images are in the Commons area, it is ok to put them in image categories here, correct? Example Image:Ogle County Burlington Chicago and Quincy depot Oregon Il.jpg is in the Commons, but I have tagged it to a category here on the Wikipedia. I see other projects have done that, so I was doing it with them all that I found on Illinois. Just want to make sure that I am doing it right. Also put a project tag on the talk page. Thanks for letting me know if I am violating any policy.-- Kranar drogin 00:43, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
Please see the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Flagged revisions for details. Badagnani 19:28, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I saw a page where some anonymous IP put up an AfD, but never created an AfD discussion for it. Can I remove the orphaned AfD as vandalism? Squidfryerchef 16:04, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Based on the original information in the first post, a deletion on the basis of "vandalism" denies WP:AGF. Keep in mind that the current policies involving AfD are no more than a year old, and many long-time editors use IPs for various reasons (and in my case, I don't know when the cookies that are stored upon my computer upon login are deleted - and my work computer rejects cookies). Some IPs are of the impression that any editor can propose an article for deletion, only to be blocked at Step 2 of the process. Unless it is clear that the IP has been involved in vandalism recently, I'd recommend assuming good faith and finish the process, even if you disagree. All you have to add in the justification "Finishing incomplete AfD listing for xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx" with the IP mentioned. Invalid AfD proposals usually are dealt with rather quickly. B.Wind 17:18, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Contrary to what some people here are advising, NEVER take any action on wikipedia which you personally disagree with. This is a cardinal rule, and can't be stressed enough. The wikipedia consensus system relies on every person acting on their own personal conscience.
What would happen if 5 or 10 different people all acted like they thought they ought to as opposed to doing The Right Thing; and no-one caught your mistake?
Placing a nomination on articles for deletion means that you wanted it nominated, as a matter of actual fact, no matter what the contents of your nomination message claim. So make sure that this is actually what you want!
If you don't think the article should be deleted, or are unsure, (and the tag has been there for over a couple of hours... someone might still be formulating the articles for deletion page, after all ;-), remove the tag.
If you do think the article should be deleted, consider again, would proposed deletion do as well? PROD reduces the strain on AFD and on admins considerably, so it should be used in preference.
If you think the article should be deleted, and PROD is inappropriate for some reason <mutter> PROD should be made to always be appropriate </mutter>, then complete the listing on AFD, as advised above.
-- Kim Bruning 17:51, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
As I understand it, templates like {{ wrongtitle}} are to facilitate rare cases where capitalisation would be incorrect, or look too clumsy (e.g. pH, iPod, µ-law), and not to excuse abuses of grammar common in commercial branding (e.g. wagn, STAPLES). In particular, they are being used to endorse stylized typography such as odd capitalization or particular formatting ( bmibaby - some egregious examples in Category:Articles with titles unsupported by Unicode which are pure typography). In the last few days, I have removed {{ lowercase}} and {{ no unicode character}} from a few clearly gratuitous uses (including one case where it was used because the letter O in the title was "the wrong colour"). Am I the only one who finds our rules on stylized typography in the MOS are not strictly enough enforced, and these templates overused? I would do so myself, but suspect that the proprietors would ignore it in the usual "Oh, that doesn't apply to this article" way (generally with the justification of "because I said so"). 81.104.175.145 22:39, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
I have noticed that on many articles, images are removed quickly and consistently, when these images do contribute to the article. Wikipedia's policy is to not be censored, but people continue to censor images.
For example, the feces article has a brigade of fervent editors who believe that a photo of poop would be offensive and "disgusting." I see absolutely no reason why a photograph of poop should not be permitted on this page. It demonstrates the article's subject.
Less extremely, the folks at fellatio refuse to allow a real-life illustration of the article's subject, such as Image:Fellatio1.jpg, which is obviously a useful image.
Too many people are calling image uploaders "freaks" and "perverts" when they are uploading useful, illustrative images which some may find inappropriate. Let's create a Wikipedia policy specifically addressing this unconstructive censorship. Thoughts? Steevven1 ( Talk) ( Contribs) ( Gallery) 23:56, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I have been known to see (and even been in) an edit war where the other side will only remove or add something in an article with no reason given either in the edit summary or the talk page. I tag it or revert it (keeping within WP:3RR), invite the other editor to dicsussion to try and resolve the dispute, but find that my invitation to talk goes unnoticed and then soon after, they add or remove the information again, again without an edit summary or make any attempt to talk. It's not vanadalism to do such things, but it is very difficult to try and communicate with other people when there is no attempt by the other editor to come to an agreement as to how the dispute can be resolved. Is there guidance on how to go about resolving this type of dispute, because nothing I can find covers this eventuality, and I write this because I am finding it occuring in one article I have on my watchlist. -- tgheretford ( talk) 22:17, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Is there a Wikipedia policy about including external links to pages written completely in a language other than English?
I am referring to off-Wiki links in the "External Links" section added at the bottom of some articles. My question is not about books or references supporting specific content of an article where the books may not be available in English, but only to the generally related external links.
For example, in an article on any topic, let's call it "Topic A", would it be appropriate to add an external link to a website with a piped title in English, such as "(French language) History of Topic A", with the link leading to a website completely in French with no content in English?
I have not been able to find specific policy on this issue. I am aware of this policy: WP:ENGLISH, but that addresses words appearing in the Wikipedia text, not to external links.
I've seen this in a couple articles and it seems it might not be appropriate, so I'd appreciate some guidance on this question. Thanks. -- Parzival418 Hello 19:14, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
There is a proposed guideline for naming the Republic of Macedonia and Macedonia (Greece) at Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Macedonia-related articles). Please come, read, and comment; we would like to have a guideline. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:20, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
I created the template on articles with how-to content a year ago, and I've been following the topic area since then. There haven't been much innovation or direction in the topic since then, even tho many have adapted the view that how-to's are generally unwanted in Wikipedia. So all seems to work, and my work seemed to hit a good spot.
This is one more try to get feedback, ideas and the chance to get something decided. My views on how-to content in wikipedia have been briefly described in here.
I would really love to get this issue decided, so that people would know what to do with different kinds of how-to. People really seem to need these things decided, according to what talk pages I've read.
Please dont take it that I think that my ideas are the best and the only ones. I just want to share some observations I have made and the resulting conclusions. I invite you to share yours. Santtus 15:35, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
I am a new contributor so I'm sure there are things I haven't got the hang of yet. But my first article was kneejerk-tagged with 4 negative tags by one person who clearly had not read it and who left no explanation on the talkpage. When I contacted him he said it was on the basis of the automatic filter that connects the author with references/weblinks. In my case the references (respectable published sources, and a website to an official English charity where I am one of the trustees) are entirely appropriate to the article which is serious and highly specialised. However he did not answer my request to point out specifically what he thought was unverifiable, not neutral, of unclear interest etc. This same objector then 'wikified' the article in a way which made nonsense of it (eg wordlinks were to similar words, but with a different meaning, such as 'supervisor' which in Wikipedia is specifically about factory supervisors, whereas my word refers specifically to academic supervisors, so it is quite mindless to direct a reader to it - and against Wikipedia guidelines on 'when to link'). Obviously all this sort of thing will sort itself out when or if other people take an interest, but it is timeconsuming. My suggestion is, could it be a requirement for a tag that whoever puts it should also put a more specific detailed reason for it on the article talkpage? this would at least make people stop and think how to justify their automatic dislike. Otherwise it invites unreasonable and instinctive reactions, and it is hard to argue against something if there is no argument only a stamp of disapproval. ArtLit 11:45, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Is there a Wikipedia editing guideline that addresses the use of extended <!---interpolated commentary---> in Wikipedia articles, either in lieu of or in addition to comments on the talk page? In my opinion, extended critiques of other editor's material belongs on the talk page, not embedded into the article itself. These types of comments remain embedded in the article long after consensus is reached and talk pages are archived. If everyone did this, it would be nearly impossible to edit an article. In that sense it seems disruptive to me, and perhaps a sign of ownership issues, but I wanted to see if any specific guidelines address the practice. Regards, MoodyGroove 12:52, 5 June 2007 (UTC)MoodyGroove
It seems that admins have taken to speedy deleting userpages and/or indefinitely blocking users for not having enough contributions to the encyclopedia. I'm not convinced that this is a good idea, so let's have some discussion on it. - Amarkov moo! 04:05, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
There are blocks being handed out? Deleting useless pages I can understand but blocking? Night Gyr ( talk/ Oy) 06:41, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
If a user has been inactive for a long time, consider adding a "Former Wikipedian" tag on the user page. There isn't any need to block them if they did not contribute to the encyclopedia, while keeping their user pages complying with the user page guidelines.-- Kylohk 18:07, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
I use wikipedia just when I want to find information, and I've sometimes considered editing, but have been afraid to do so because I was afraid I'd accidentaly write something false and I didn't want to misinform so many people, and because I was afraid I'd unintentionally break some regulation I didn't know about and be permenently blocked. Now I find out I may be blocked because I haven't edited enough. I feel I may well work up the confidance to contribute and am don't want to have been blocked before then. As Wikipedia is quite popular as an encyclopedia, even for people who have nothing to contribute, I presume there would be many people like me, and people change, so someone who previously had no reason to edit can always find one. Blocking people who don't contribute is meaning they will never be able to edit. Also, as Wikipedia's slogan says "which anyone can edit", it seems to be claming such peoplehave comited a particularly exeptional ofence. Or am I missing something?
As some people know, amnesty international just launched a campaign to help people to circumvent censorship over the internet.
Some people in foreign country like China can't have access normally to wikipedia. But are able to circumvent censorship by passing through open proxy.
The problem is that they are able only to read an article, and if they want to correct something, to improve wikipedia, they need to drop the protection of the proxy and expose themselves to danger.
While the block of open proxy is based on a legit concern about libel and vandalism. Some people are silenced by the actual policy.
The last word of Jimmy Wales on the matter is that if it is dangerous to edit wikipedia, those people simply shouldn't do it. Today we encourage people to gather knowledge and give tips about how to access wikipedia freely, but we do not help them to contribute with the project.
So how can we help people to join wikipedia from this countries ? The actual block system function as follows : If an ip is blocked, then all people from this ip that use their registered account can't edit from this ip. This is meant to block vandal from circumventing ip block by creating a user to continue their ugly purpose.
I propose the following change :
A list would be created containing username that will let them to edit through ip blocked for the criteria of being an open proxy (read : not from a vandal ip).
The condition of entering this whitelist could be : having an history of good editing (is that problematic ? We can say that such user is a good editor, we do it for RFA procedures). Or being sponsored by a (good contributing) user through a consensus based debate. Example :
The obvious problems : How to prevent sock pupet being admited that way ? How to prevent vandale to introduce their libel through that door ?
Well, if the user self nominated himself with a short history then he will perhaps not pass through the process, or simply be blocked with an expiry time of indefinite (with his first non proxy edit ip recorded in the database).
If the user has been sponsored ? Then by sponsoring the guy the user become an obvious suspect in a case of sockpupetry. And, in the case of vandalism you may imagine that future nomination by this user may well be less kindly regarded.
"What about the old sock who sponsor some guy to introduce libelous attack ?" Well I think that a vandal will allways have a way to post on wikipedia, and that the sock don't really need to have an open proxy to do his libel.
Another objection I thought are the technical improvement to the mediawiki software will be needed to implement that. I think that for the freedom of speech, creating a new user permission is not a lot of work to do (I'm no developer so yes I know it's easy to say, but do you think the goal doesn't worth it ?)
So what do you think about that proposal ? â Esurnir 21:43, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Has there been a discussion about verifying identity? I am not making such a proposal. If there were confirmed identities, then the sock problem may disappear or greatly shrink.
Regarding your question, we have WP:CHECKUSER to deal with cases where someone's identity needs to be checked. Otherwise, we just let it slide. Placeholder account 13:12, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion on WT:RS#What kinds of sources do we want to distinguish?. It started out about Sri Lanka conflict related sources, but it may be interesting from a more basic point of view. Please join the discussion there. — Sebastian 18:49, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Moved from the Proposals page Firsfron of Ronchester 07:07, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
I propose that the
WP:NOT#DIR be changed to allow schedules of newscasts on TV stations as they currently are now. An example of a newscast schedule looks something like this....
In some cases, the names of the news anchors, meteorologists, and sports anchors are included in these schedules. Since these are programs that are produced and broadcast (in 99% of cases) live and are anchored by staff of the respective stations, they should be noted on their respective pages.
No syndicated programming nor any national programming is listed.
So, I asked that newscast schedules (with or without the respective anchors, etc) be allowed on TV station page and that WP:NOT#DIR rule be changed so that is is specific for TV stations. - NeutralHomer T: C 05:48, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
This page was ruled as "inactive" in April 2006. However, if you look at the talk page, you can see that the supermajority of people actually supported this idea. So, why is this page inactive and not actual policy? Diez2 06:29, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Would it be possible to make it so that all project banners of any kind (including WikiProjects, WP1.0, ArticleHistory...) are positioned exactly to the right of the TOC? This way would solve two problems: 1) WikiProject visibility (they are positioned at the top of the page), although I think BannerShell would still be a good idea, and 2) TOC is immediately accessible at the top of the page so its easier to skip to content with only one click (rather than using SkipToTOC banner which requires one more mouse click and increases banner clutter). Only problem I see might be with lower resolution users (I use 1600*1200) and long section titles. OTOH, Talk:Linus Torvalds is also a good idea. Banners are moved beneath the TOC, scrolling shows all the banners, using TOC skips all the banners. Problem with this is of course lower prominence of the BLP warning and WikiProject banners overall. Shinhan 15:55, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
I would like to know if I am allowed to write an article about an official international fan club of an artist. It would include its history, establishers, and its branches around the world. Of course I have independent sources recognizing that organization. I just ask it because in the Spanish wikipedia it is unofficially not allowed (I emphasize the word "unofficially", because in the Spanish wikipedia some admins are deleting things according to unofficial and not yet accepted rules that I consider incorrect, so I ask it also here if the English version has an official rule for that). Thank you in advance. -- Zoltan 13:47, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Unfortunately, my spanish is a bit rusty (i.e. non-existent) so it isn't beneficial to me to view it because I'm not sure of the information. For the time being, you should work up the page in a personal sandbox (here: User:TheMexican2007/sandbox) and while it's being discussed you could have it all worked up, in english for those of us that are not spanish savvy, so that your case will have further strength (not that it would need it..others may feel it is just fine to create the article, but just in case). BIGNOLE (Contact me) 14:26, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
I would like to chime in here. I would think that information about the fan club is important, but does not necessarily mean that the fan club needs its own article. It may be quite appropriate to add relevent information to the article of the band in question, but unless an organization generates significant press outside of its own events and publications, there aren't enough independant sources to build a well referenced, neutral article on. My recommendation is to add a short, maybe 1-2 paragraph, section to the article of the band in question. That seems to be appropriate here, as long as you can verify that this is really a genuine organization with a sizable membership, and not just some website started by some really big fan.-- Jayron32| talk| contribs 19:26, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Thank you all. I think this last one will the be best solution. (Just note: in the Spanish Wikipedia they don't even allow to add an external link to the official club site in the article, because the admins there hate this artist. Spanish Wikipedia would need some superior instructions to put end of its admins' autocratic and dictarotic power based on their pre-judgements.)
Sincerely, -- Zoltan 14:14, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
I included a brief paragraph about the club in the article about the artist. Please review it if it is correct this way. Thank you. -- Zoltan 14:53, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
This is probably elsewhere in here but I couldn't get the search functions to find it for me :). Is there a "proper" way to go about notifying major contributors and the like for an article that has been AfD'd, if the person nominating the article did not do so? I don't want to WP:CANVASS but I think that the contributors should be alerted. All the AfD nomination templates say the page has been nominated for deletion "by me". CredoFromStart talk 12:50, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
The arguments are what carry the day, so you should allow anyone who might have a valid argument to make it, else you end up placing the AFD process in the hands of AFD regulars only. Oh whatever, that's where it is already. That and hmm, I already suggested AFD is a WONTFIX earlier, so ... I'll just hush then. Try PROD instead? -- Kim Bruning 16:28, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Notifying the related WikiProjects may be a good idea if you are sure that they can help in fixing the article (with reliable sources and such). However, the notice must be as neutral as possible. Just tell them that any opinions will be greatly appreciated. I've started some AfDs before, but in the course of the discussion, reliable sources were found, so the article is kept.-- Kylohk 20:46, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Do most people put articles they really care about (one way or the other) on their watch list? I default my watchlist to include any article I edit. I then periodically go through my watchlist and remove references to articles I no longer care about. I'm curious what other people do-- Work permit 21:17, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
This just sprung up all of a sudden. Please comment here. Thanks. Quadzilla99 15:55, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
This seems like an appropriate place for this. I have been redirecting single episode articles because they don't meet this guideline's requirements of real world information backed by sources, and they don't show any sort of promise for improvement. After being mass reverted for a reason of "no consensus" (though it was really for other reasons), I have placed silly messages on episode list talk pages. As I expected, few have been actually noticed, and most won't really bring in any attention. Should I just screw the people that think discussion is required for this kind of thing, or should I just wait for people not to respond to the messages for a few days in all cases? It seems really pointless because, either way, they're going to be redirected. It is only worth it for high traffic articles. TTN 18:33, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Please stop recklessly redirecting articles. If you have a problem with them, flag them instead of redirecting. Damn. â Zachary talk 22:19, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Here are some ideas for what information to include about a television episode, where possible:
* A brief summary of the episode's plot * The episode's relevance in ongoing story arcs, if any * How the episode was received by critics * Information on production and broadcasting of the episode
68.72.141.190 22:22, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
well do whatever you want, but as soon as you move on to somewhat mainstream articles be prepared to have things reverted and categorized as stubs as you are just going on what you think without even getting input from others 68.72.141.190
I am no fan of having these articles on episodes but I believe what you are doing is very, very wrong. If you want to redirect, you should be making sure that the important substance of the work that the editors have done on the episodes is preserved on the list of episode pages. You are deleting these at the rate of one a minute. You are never adding anything from the episode. Are you even reading them? You are spending a few minutes to delete hundreds of hours of other editor's work without even making any attempt to see if any of the content should be preserved. Do the job right if you are going to do it. Act like an editor, not like a bot. -- DS1953 talk 01:11, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
TTN, I think this is being a little too strict. Episodes are fine to have their own pages, and you'd be surprised how much they can be sourced, especially for popular shows: in cases like that, don't redirect but let them improve organically. Articles don't have to be perfect. For shows that aren't as popular, it may not make sense to cover every episode separately, as the critical analysis may not exist in reliable sources. But then, the right thing to do would be to merge the articles together into larger ones, like an annotated list of episodes or articles on an entire season. I think that by redirecting in those cases you're doing the wrong thing. What you should do in that case is explain the situation on the talk page for the show or its list of episodes, or whever the merge would happen, and explain that you don't think the individual episodes in this case are covered enough in sources to be able to meet WP:EPISODE, and try to work out a solution. You might get people finding sources (which would be a good thing), or you might get people to reach an agreement that the episodes should be merged together. Or, you might find that people feel it's okay to have just a list, you never know. Or, they may disagree with you and you may have to work harder to come to a decision, such as through an WP:AFD debate or a {{ merge}} tag or an WP:RFC. But if you just go around redirecting, it'll simply remove content until someone gets around to disagreeing with you and reverting it, so it won't really lead to any improvement in the long run, just a little less cruft right now. Mango juice talk 14:43, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
I couldn't help but notice Mangojuice said "..as it doesn't describe common practice (which a guideline is supposed to do)..". Ok, lets get this cleared up, common practice is not always what a guideline should be, because common practice can be a very bad thing. Common practice or behavior isn't always consensus. Consensus suggests that people have been able to reasonably consider all sides of the issue and come to a conclusion. Sometimes people just do "monkey see monkey do", or they just assume that it's ok to put up nothing but plot summary and trivial information. Guidelines do not describe common practice, they describe what should be common practice. -- Ned Scott 08:46, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Chris is right. It was rather unfair for you to mindlessly redirect those pages without the creator(s) consent. Angie Y. 14:01, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
What I'm not understanding is why people are griping over my editing instead of actually trying to improve the articles. They say "you should have brought it up before, so people could try to meet the guideline", but now that it has been brought up and reverted, they just sit there. Only one editor has done anything (merging episodes into seasons or something). The rest just claim that they can be improved, while not actually providing a method. This is the main problem; episodes don't warrant their own existence. They have to earn it with out of universe information, and so far only a small number of series have shown that. With these crufty things, we need to have them prove their worth or we'll get nowhere. TTN 20:16, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
This link is probably more appropriate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Mass_deletion_of_television_articles_by_TTN
There has been a lot of debate recently around deleting lists of people grouped by ethnicity, race, religion, and other cultural groupings. Unfortunately, Wikipedia:Categorization of people deals with this issue from the point of view of categories; there is no guideline for the similar but distinct lists of people. As a result, there has been a ton of confusion on this issue. To try and lend so clarity to the situation, I have created Wikipedia:Proposed guideline for lists of people by ethnicity, religion, and other cultural categorizations. Much of the wording of this proposed guideline comes from Wikipedia:Categorization of people but it has been tailored to fit the specific needs of lists. I hope people will join the discussion on the proposed guideline and make changes as needed. Best,-- Alabamaboy 14:25, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
I know the community is at a cross roads with the entire concept of Fair Use and if community consensus goes the way of banning all non-free content, I really wouldn't have a problem. However, I am concerned with the subjective application of WP:FAIRUSE and in particularly the vague "Replaceable clause" as it applies to Fair Use images for individuals who are deceased. At its most literal point, every possible conceivable image could be deemed replaceable under the "hypothetical assumption" that under some rock, somewhere is a free image just waiting to be uploaded to Wikipedia. Banking on that rational one could successfully argue for the deletion of every fair use image. In most cases, especially on BLPs and non-human objects, the replaceable clause is quite reasonable because if all else fails an editor who wants an image can pick up their camera and go take the picture. However that logic hits a road block when the subject is a deceased individual (or an historical event for that matter). In those circumstances the pool of potential free images is dramatically reduced with the opportunity for anyone to grab their camera and snap a picture being non-existent. This creates an inherent systematic bias towards images for articles of living people and non-human objects at the expense of the encyclopedic quality and service of articles about deceased individuals. Again, if the community wishes to go the route of banning all fair use then this is a moot point but the current wording of WP:FAIRUSE, and certainly its application, seems to have this glaring hole and bias when it comes to the "replaceable clause". Agne Cheese/ Wine 06:57, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
A process is needed to ensure that speedy deletions of articles which allegedly violate WP:BLP, but do not meet CSD G10, do not result in wheel wars or other disruption, of the type described in Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Badlydrawnjeff. I have suggested such a process at Wikipedia:BLP Deletion Process. John254 23:27, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
There's an article of a high school musical director. Is that allowed here on Wikipedia. I don't know where, but I'd like to propose its deletion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duane_Otani
- 71.240.184.236 03:24, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
I need your help, please. Who should I contact to denounce the Spanish Wikipedia? They are violating the most basic policies, deleting sections and articles without consulting previously with the editors, blocking user IP's just for putting an external link to an official fan club in the article of an artist, and I could state hundreds of arbitrary and unethical actions the admins do there. Thank you in advance. -- TheMexican ( talk) 15:44, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
I also added some more things into the criticism section of the article about the Spanish Wikipedia with strong and verifiably arguments. -- TheMexican ( talk) 16:04, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
The thruth is that it is not about a problem that someone has with Spanish administrators, but many people have this problem, as administrators do not keep the basic ethical rules, and, as in the Spanish Wikipedia article is stated, they are acting according to their personal interests. I can say that not even the community votes are fair, because those who will vote against an article, are all the friends or interested people of the the admins. I did write my complaint to a Steward. -- TheMexican ( talk) 08:34, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Each language Wikipedia is more or less autonomous. See m:Foundation issues for policies that are binding on all Wikimedia projects. Basically, the only things the Spanish Wikipedia can't do are:
If you feel the Spanish Wikipedia administrators are engaging in one of the above actions, I'd suggest emailing one of our friendly Wikimedia Trustees. That's what they're here for. szyslak 11:10, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
In many countries, there are legal restrictions on what kind of information can be published about a criminal defendant. Some countries prohibit, or allow judges to prohibit, information that can identify a defendant before he or she is convicted, or any information that can identify a juvenile convict, or information that can influence a jury pool. This issue has come up in articles about criminals on trial in Sweden, for instance, as well as articles on juvenile criminals in Canada and even an article on a deceased convict in Germany.
Recently, a Danish editor removed information about a criminal defendant from the article 2008 UEFA qualifier fan attack because of a Danish court order. I pointed out that Wikipedia is not subject to Danish law. The other editor is of the opinion the English Wikipedia should abide by the Danish ruling.
I think there ought to be an official Wikipedia policy on publication bans -- something along the like of: "We don't have to honor them, and information shouldn't be removed because of them. But a publication ban may make it hard to find reliable sources on a person or subject, and, in that case, the information should be omitted on the grounds of WP:RS." -- Mwalcoff 23:20, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
:-)
). Because Wikipedia is well-accessible in Denmark (
and in Danish, too), we also run the risk of prejudice to any criminal proceedings that result.
81.104.175.145 08:16, 9 June 2007 (UTC)Publication bans aside... If someone is contesting an issue in a court case or pending court case, it does seem prudent to withhold sections that are being contested. For instance, say we have newspaper articles that say 'Mister X stole the Pink Diamonds', but Mister X is contesting that in a court case, it might be inappropriate for a Wikipedia article to say 'Mister X stole the Pink Diamonds' even if we can cite those newspapers. For one thing, the court case may well decide that 'Mister X was framed by Mister Y'. We can certainly state that there's a court case pending or in progress, but we should be careful. -- Barberio 18:06, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
Hi! I just put out an article Crimson Circle (Shaumbra), that I've worked with for quite some time, and made a disambiguation page. After two hours all my work were gone, deleted by an administrator. It is very frustraing to see ones good work just beeing deleted. Sometimes I just feel this place sucks. Resigned and frustrated Geir 14:05, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
(Ps. The section secondary sources is added afterwards.)
I really can't see any reason why this is notable. The deleting admin seems to me to have been entirely correct and not to have been vandalising in any way. And I hate to say it, but it's really not very well written. The English is most peculiar and it's very difficult to see what you're getting at. I appreciate English isn't your first language, but articles on English Wikipedia do need to be more readable than that. -- Necrothesp 18:45, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Thank you everyone for your time and concern! Geir 13:09, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of arrested Bengals. Is copying something from here to sportsargumentwiki.com a copyright violation? Especially since the copy was done without attribution to the Wikipedia article as required by GFDL, and since the sportsargumentwiki is not using a compatible license. If so, is there anything that can be done about it now? Corvus cornix 06:53, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Some of you might be aware of WP:EPISODE, which is our guideline for dealing with articles about an individual episode from a show. Before it had the shortcut WP:EPISODE and the current title, Wikipedia:Television episodes, it was known as Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Television episodes [7]. Well, it still says pretty much the same thing as before, but some recent redirecting of episode articles that weren't seen as notable lead us to some new activity on the talk page of WP:EPISODE. We're now looking for input and comments to expanding the guideline at WT:EPISODE#Suggested expansion of guidelines. -- Ned Scott 04:10, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
If, in seeing the account pattern of a vandal with multiple accounts, I believe that I know some future accounts, may I create those accounts to prevent the vandal from getting them? This situation is one which happenned recently. Od Mishehu 09:40, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I may have missed some announcement, or missed the big community debate over this, but for some reasons the OTRS volunteers working on en.wikipedia seem to belive they have special super-admin powers. Specifically that edits made 'as OTRS edits' can not be reverted by normal editors or admin.
The OTRS pages on Meta seem to suggest exactly the opposite, that OTRS volunteers are expected to work within the consensus lead framework of each individual project. ("OTRS is not a Badge" in the 'introduction' section.) Proposals that there should be special 'super-admin' powers granted to some vetted users has been a perennial suggestion in the past, but has never gained support.
I think we need to make this clear to OTRS volunteers that unless there's a discussion that produces consensus support or a specific declaration by the Wikimedia Foundation, OTRS Volunteers do not have special powers on this project. -- Barberio 15:35, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
In articles with no direct relation to an Anglophonic country, should American English or British English be used? âThe preceding unsigned comment was added by RockRNC ( talk ⢠contribs).
It's a matter of consistency. Both types of English should not be used simutaneously in an article. It's either this or that. Apart from this, a popular practice is to choose the spelling type depending on the subject. E.g. if the article is something to do with Britain, Australia, etc, use British English. This is particularly true for films.-- Kylohk 19:55, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
This afd Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Arbuthnot, 6th Viscount of Arbuthnott I hope will be a test case for whether the Wikipedia community wants thousands of these stub like articles on non notable peers. I am not against articles on peers who have actually done anything of note but to have thousands of these articles that just say x was born and married y and then died is just pure idiocy. There is no reason why these people cannot be covered on the relevant Wikipedia article for the title in question. If you support my view please comment on the above afd. Thanks Gustav von Humpelschmumpel 19:32, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
There is a proposed guideline for naming the Republic of Macedonia and Macedonia (Greece) at Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Macedonia-related articles). Please come, read, and comment; we would like to have a guideline. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:20, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
I have posted a message on the talk page of WP:SPOILER addressing the apparent lack of consensus and proposing the guideline be marked historical. Please join the discussion. Vassyana 19:42, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Here a quote from the talk page of Akhilleus, who lately deleted Toki Pona. Please reconsiderate and review together this decision. -- LaPingvino ( 192.87.49.2 08:13, 12 June 2007 (UTC))
Begin quote:
toki pona
Hi, why was the toki pona page removed? thanks AJ
- See discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Toki Pona (2nd nomination). --Akhilleus ( talk) 14:09, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
- Most people in that discussion voted to keep. Furtheron, it became one of the biggest conlangs in the last years, having more than 100 speakers, and in some time will probably pass by languages like Ido. Yet it seems to be more in use than Lojban. And I often came back to read the article, because it really is interesting. And this article has many interwiki-links too, which indicates a lot too. So please put the article back! -- LaPingvino, moderator of the biggest toki pona mailing list (moderated, few hundred members), fluent speaker
End quote
Recently there has been active debate and gradual changes of the policy, which now comes to a head as some editors argue the changes have been made without consensus, and that a survey of opinion has been biased and not representative of the community's true position on the matter. We need more people to take part in the discussion so that there can be no allegation of bias in the process, and hopefully achieve a consensus on the policy reasonably soon. Please visit Wikipedia talk:Main Page featured article protection. 07:48, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Is there any polices against branching pages. A page thats branches off a user page, (Noit on it, it's it's own page, but it's just branching off another page.) Cuz i made two so far and is still making some. The pages are Which Wiki are you and The Daily Journal.
変 Nikro 23:39, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
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The <ref>/<references> system was a godsend, and I kiss the devs every day for it. I am asking for a second, identical system - one for footnotes, which would use <note>/<notelist> or what not. For example, take a look at List of Governors of Alabama. The only use for references is as footnotes to the long table; I intend to start using this on my congressional tables articles, to replace things like the 'passages table' ( This is an example, the senate part).
However, this ceases to be great when you have a situation with notes AND references, an example being List of Governors of Colorado.
Should I submit a bugzilla feature request, or what? This would be great for list/table articles, where we need both footnotes and separate references. I think it's unfair to the reader to mix the two, especially in the common tiny font size for references.
An added bonus would be if we could trigger refs from inside notes, keeping the list/table that much cleaner. -- Golbez 22:03, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
I was wondering, if images are in the Commons area, it is ok to put them in image categories here, correct? Example Image:Ogle County Burlington Chicago and Quincy depot Oregon Il.jpg is in the Commons, but I have tagged it to a category here on the Wikipedia. I see other projects have done that, so I was doing it with them all that I found on Illinois. Just want to make sure that I am doing it right. Also put a project tag on the talk page. Thanks for letting me know if I am violating any policy.-- Kranar drogin 00:43, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
Please see the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Flagged revisions for details. Badagnani 19:28, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I saw a page where some anonymous IP put up an AfD, but never created an AfD discussion for it. Can I remove the orphaned AfD as vandalism? Squidfryerchef 16:04, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Based on the original information in the first post, a deletion on the basis of "vandalism" denies WP:AGF. Keep in mind that the current policies involving AfD are no more than a year old, and many long-time editors use IPs for various reasons (and in my case, I don't know when the cookies that are stored upon my computer upon login are deleted - and my work computer rejects cookies). Some IPs are of the impression that any editor can propose an article for deletion, only to be blocked at Step 2 of the process. Unless it is clear that the IP has been involved in vandalism recently, I'd recommend assuming good faith and finish the process, even if you disagree. All you have to add in the justification "Finishing incomplete AfD listing for xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx" with the IP mentioned. Invalid AfD proposals usually are dealt with rather quickly. B.Wind 17:18, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Contrary to what some people here are advising, NEVER take any action on wikipedia which you personally disagree with. This is a cardinal rule, and can't be stressed enough. The wikipedia consensus system relies on every person acting on their own personal conscience.
What would happen if 5 or 10 different people all acted like they thought they ought to as opposed to doing The Right Thing; and no-one caught your mistake?
Placing a nomination on articles for deletion means that you wanted it nominated, as a matter of actual fact, no matter what the contents of your nomination message claim. So make sure that this is actually what you want!
If you don't think the article should be deleted, or are unsure, (and the tag has been there for over a couple of hours... someone might still be formulating the articles for deletion page, after all ;-), remove the tag.
If you do think the article should be deleted, consider again, would proposed deletion do as well? PROD reduces the strain on AFD and on admins considerably, so it should be used in preference.
If you think the article should be deleted, and PROD is inappropriate for some reason <mutter> PROD should be made to always be appropriate </mutter>, then complete the listing on AFD, as advised above.
-- Kim Bruning 17:51, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
As I understand it, templates like {{ wrongtitle}} are to facilitate rare cases where capitalisation would be incorrect, or look too clumsy (e.g. pH, iPod, µ-law), and not to excuse abuses of grammar common in commercial branding (e.g. wagn, STAPLES). In particular, they are being used to endorse stylized typography such as odd capitalization or particular formatting ( bmibaby - some egregious examples in Category:Articles with titles unsupported by Unicode which are pure typography). In the last few days, I have removed {{ lowercase}} and {{ no unicode character}} from a few clearly gratuitous uses (including one case where it was used because the letter O in the title was "the wrong colour"). Am I the only one who finds our rules on stylized typography in the MOS are not strictly enough enforced, and these templates overused? I would do so myself, but suspect that the proprietors would ignore it in the usual "Oh, that doesn't apply to this article" way (generally with the justification of "because I said so"). 81.104.175.145 22:39, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
I have noticed that on many articles, images are removed quickly and consistently, when these images do contribute to the article. Wikipedia's policy is to not be censored, but people continue to censor images.
For example, the feces article has a brigade of fervent editors who believe that a photo of poop would be offensive and "disgusting." I see absolutely no reason why a photograph of poop should not be permitted on this page. It demonstrates the article's subject.
Less extremely, the folks at fellatio refuse to allow a real-life illustration of the article's subject, such as Image:Fellatio1.jpg, which is obviously a useful image.
Too many people are calling image uploaders "freaks" and "perverts" when they are uploading useful, illustrative images which some may find inappropriate. Let's create a Wikipedia policy specifically addressing this unconstructive censorship. Thoughts? Steevven1 ( Talk) ( Contribs) ( Gallery) 23:56, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I have been known to see (and even been in) an edit war where the other side will only remove or add something in an article with no reason given either in the edit summary or the talk page. I tag it or revert it (keeping within WP:3RR), invite the other editor to dicsussion to try and resolve the dispute, but find that my invitation to talk goes unnoticed and then soon after, they add or remove the information again, again without an edit summary or make any attempt to talk. It's not vanadalism to do such things, but it is very difficult to try and communicate with other people when there is no attempt by the other editor to come to an agreement as to how the dispute can be resolved. Is there guidance on how to go about resolving this type of dispute, because nothing I can find covers this eventuality, and I write this because I am finding it occuring in one article I have on my watchlist. -- tgheretford ( talk) 22:17, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Is there a Wikipedia policy about including external links to pages written completely in a language other than English?
I am referring to off-Wiki links in the "External Links" section added at the bottom of some articles. My question is not about books or references supporting specific content of an article where the books may not be available in English, but only to the generally related external links.
For example, in an article on any topic, let's call it "Topic A", would it be appropriate to add an external link to a website with a piped title in English, such as "(French language) History of Topic A", with the link leading to a website completely in French with no content in English?
I have not been able to find specific policy on this issue. I am aware of this policy: WP:ENGLISH, but that addresses words appearing in the Wikipedia text, not to external links.
I've seen this in a couple articles and it seems it might not be appropriate, so I'd appreciate some guidance on this question. Thanks. -- Parzival418 Hello 19:14, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
There is a proposed guideline for naming the Republic of Macedonia and Macedonia (Greece) at Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Macedonia-related articles). Please come, read, and comment; we would like to have a guideline. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:20, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
I created the template on articles with how-to content a year ago, and I've been following the topic area since then. There haven't been much innovation or direction in the topic since then, even tho many have adapted the view that how-to's are generally unwanted in Wikipedia. So all seems to work, and my work seemed to hit a good spot.
This is one more try to get feedback, ideas and the chance to get something decided. My views on how-to content in wikipedia have been briefly described in here.
I would really love to get this issue decided, so that people would know what to do with different kinds of how-to. People really seem to need these things decided, according to what talk pages I've read.
Please dont take it that I think that my ideas are the best and the only ones. I just want to share some observations I have made and the resulting conclusions. I invite you to share yours. Santtus 15:35, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
I am a new contributor so I'm sure there are things I haven't got the hang of yet. But my first article was kneejerk-tagged with 4 negative tags by one person who clearly had not read it and who left no explanation on the talkpage. When I contacted him he said it was on the basis of the automatic filter that connects the author with references/weblinks. In my case the references (respectable published sources, and a website to an official English charity where I am one of the trustees) are entirely appropriate to the article which is serious and highly specialised. However he did not answer my request to point out specifically what he thought was unverifiable, not neutral, of unclear interest etc. This same objector then 'wikified' the article in a way which made nonsense of it (eg wordlinks were to similar words, but with a different meaning, such as 'supervisor' which in Wikipedia is specifically about factory supervisors, whereas my word refers specifically to academic supervisors, so it is quite mindless to direct a reader to it - and against Wikipedia guidelines on 'when to link'). Obviously all this sort of thing will sort itself out when or if other people take an interest, but it is timeconsuming. My suggestion is, could it be a requirement for a tag that whoever puts it should also put a more specific detailed reason for it on the article talkpage? this would at least make people stop and think how to justify their automatic dislike. Otherwise it invites unreasonable and instinctive reactions, and it is hard to argue against something if there is no argument only a stamp of disapproval. ArtLit 11:45, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Is there a Wikipedia editing guideline that addresses the use of extended <!---interpolated commentary---> in Wikipedia articles, either in lieu of or in addition to comments on the talk page? In my opinion, extended critiques of other editor's material belongs on the talk page, not embedded into the article itself. These types of comments remain embedded in the article long after consensus is reached and talk pages are archived. If everyone did this, it would be nearly impossible to edit an article. In that sense it seems disruptive to me, and perhaps a sign of ownership issues, but I wanted to see if any specific guidelines address the practice. Regards, MoodyGroove 12:52, 5 June 2007 (UTC)MoodyGroove
It seems that admins have taken to speedy deleting userpages and/or indefinitely blocking users for not having enough contributions to the encyclopedia. I'm not convinced that this is a good idea, so let's have some discussion on it. - Amarkov moo! 04:05, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
There are blocks being handed out? Deleting useless pages I can understand but blocking? Night Gyr ( talk/ Oy) 06:41, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
If a user has been inactive for a long time, consider adding a "Former Wikipedian" tag on the user page. There isn't any need to block them if they did not contribute to the encyclopedia, while keeping their user pages complying with the user page guidelines.-- Kylohk 18:07, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
I use wikipedia just when I want to find information, and I've sometimes considered editing, but have been afraid to do so because I was afraid I'd accidentaly write something false and I didn't want to misinform so many people, and because I was afraid I'd unintentionally break some regulation I didn't know about and be permenently blocked. Now I find out I may be blocked because I haven't edited enough. I feel I may well work up the confidance to contribute and am don't want to have been blocked before then. As Wikipedia is quite popular as an encyclopedia, even for people who have nothing to contribute, I presume there would be many people like me, and people change, so someone who previously had no reason to edit can always find one. Blocking people who don't contribute is meaning they will never be able to edit. Also, as Wikipedia's slogan says "which anyone can edit", it seems to be claming such peoplehave comited a particularly exeptional ofence. Or am I missing something?
As some people know, amnesty international just launched a campaign to help people to circumvent censorship over the internet.
Some people in foreign country like China can't have access normally to wikipedia. But are able to circumvent censorship by passing through open proxy.
The problem is that they are able only to read an article, and if they want to correct something, to improve wikipedia, they need to drop the protection of the proxy and expose themselves to danger.
While the block of open proxy is based on a legit concern about libel and vandalism. Some people are silenced by the actual policy.
The last word of Jimmy Wales on the matter is that if it is dangerous to edit wikipedia, those people simply shouldn't do it. Today we encourage people to gather knowledge and give tips about how to access wikipedia freely, but we do not help them to contribute with the project.
So how can we help people to join wikipedia from this countries ? The actual block system function as follows : If an ip is blocked, then all people from this ip that use their registered account can't edit from this ip. This is meant to block vandal from circumventing ip block by creating a user to continue their ugly purpose.
I propose the following change :
A list would be created containing username that will let them to edit through ip blocked for the criteria of being an open proxy (read : not from a vandal ip).
The condition of entering this whitelist could be : having an history of good editing (is that problematic ? We can say that such user is a good editor, we do it for RFA procedures). Or being sponsored by a (good contributing) user through a consensus based debate. Example :
The obvious problems : How to prevent sock pupet being admited that way ? How to prevent vandale to introduce their libel through that door ?
Well, if the user self nominated himself with a short history then he will perhaps not pass through the process, or simply be blocked with an expiry time of indefinite (with his first non proxy edit ip recorded in the database).
If the user has been sponsored ? Then by sponsoring the guy the user become an obvious suspect in a case of sockpupetry. And, in the case of vandalism you may imagine that future nomination by this user may well be less kindly regarded.
"What about the old sock who sponsor some guy to introduce libelous attack ?" Well I think that a vandal will allways have a way to post on wikipedia, and that the sock don't really need to have an open proxy to do his libel.
Another objection I thought are the technical improvement to the mediawiki software will be needed to implement that. I think that for the freedom of speech, creating a new user permission is not a lot of work to do (I'm no developer so yes I know it's easy to say, but do you think the goal doesn't worth it ?)
So what do you think about that proposal ? â Esurnir 21:43, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Has there been a discussion about verifying identity? I am not making such a proposal. If there were confirmed identities, then the sock problem may disappear or greatly shrink.
Regarding your question, we have WP:CHECKUSER to deal with cases where someone's identity needs to be checked. Otherwise, we just let it slide. Placeholder account 13:12, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion on WT:RS#What kinds of sources do we want to distinguish?. It started out about Sri Lanka conflict related sources, but it may be interesting from a more basic point of view. Please join the discussion there. — Sebastian 18:49, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Moved from the Proposals page Firsfron of Ronchester 07:07, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
I propose that the
WP:NOT#DIR be changed to allow schedules of newscasts on TV stations as they currently are now. An example of a newscast schedule looks something like this....
In some cases, the names of the news anchors, meteorologists, and sports anchors are included in these schedules. Since these are programs that are produced and broadcast (in 99% of cases) live and are anchored by staff of the respective stations, they should be noted on their respective pages.
No syndicated programming nor any national programming is listed.
So, I asked that newscast schedules (with or without the respective anchors, etc) be allowed on TV station page and that WP:NOT#DIR rule be changed so that is is specific for TV stations. - NeutralHomer T: C 05:48, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
This page was ruled as "inactive" in April 2006. However, if you look at the talk page, you can see that the supermajority of people actually supported this idea. So, why is this page inactive and not actual policy? Diez2 06:29, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Would it be possible to make it so that all project banners of any kind (including WikiProjects, WP1.0, ArticleHistory...) are positioned exactly to the right of the TOC? This way would solve two problems: 1) WikiProject visibility (they are positioned at the top of the page), although I think BannerShell would still be a good idea, and 2) TOC is immediately accessible at the top of the page so its easier to skip to content with only one click (rather than using SkipToTOC banner which requires one more mouse click and increases banner clutter). Only problem I see might be with lower resolution users (I use 1600*1200) and long section titles. OTOH, Talk:Linus Torvalds is also a good idea. Banners are moved beneath the TOC, scrolling shows all the banners, using TOC skips all the banners. Problem with this is of course lower prominence of the BLP warning and WikiProject banners overall. Shinhan 15:55, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
I would like to know if I am allowed to write an article about an official international fan club of an artist. It would include its history, establishers, and its branches around the world. Of course I have independent sources recognizing that organization. I just ask it because in the Spanish wikipedia it is unofficially not allowed (I emphasize the word "unofficially", because in the Spanish wikipedia some admins are deleting things according to unofficial and not yet accepted rules that I consider incorrect, so I ask it also here if the English version has an official rule for that). Thank you in advance. -- Zoltan 13:47, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Unfortunately, my spanish is a bit rusty (i.e. non-existent) so it isn't beneficial to me to view it because I'm not sure of the information. For the time being, you should work up the page in a personal sandbox (here: User:TheMexican2007/sandbox) and while it's being discussed you could have it all worked up, in english for those of us that are not spanish savvy, so that your case will have further strength (not that it would need it..others may feel it is just fine to create the article, but just in case). BIGNOLE (Contact me) 14:26, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
I would like to chime in here. I would think that information about the fan club is important, but does not necessarily mean that the fan club needs its own article. It may be quite appropriate to add relevent information to the article of the band in question, but unless an organization generates significant press outside of its own events and publications, there aren't enough independant sources to build a well referenced, neutral article on. My recommendation is to add a short, maybe 1-2 paragraph, section to the article of the band in question. That seems to be appropriate here, as long as you can verify that this is really a genuine organization with a sizable membership, and not just some website started by some really big fan.-- Jayron32| talk| contribs 19:26, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Thank you all. I think this last one will the be best solution. (Just note: in the Spanish Wikipedia they don't even allow to add an external link to the official club site in the article, because the admins there hate this artist. Spanish Wikipedia would need some superior instructions to put end of its admins' autocratic and dictarotic power based on their pre-judgements.)
Sincerely, -- Zoltan 14:14, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
I included a brief paragraph about the club in the article about the artist. Please review it if it is correct this way. Thank you. -- Zoltan 14:53, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
This is probably elsewhere in here but I couldn't get the search functions to find it for me :). Is there a "proper" way to go about notifying major contributors and the like for an article that has been AfD'd, if the person nominating the article did not do so? I don't want to WP:CANVASS but I think that the contributors should be alerted. All the AfD nomination templates say the page has been nominated for deletion "by me". CredoFromStart talk 12:50, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
The arguments are what carry the day, so you should allow anyone who might have a valid argument to make it, else you end up placing the AFD process in the hands of AFD regulars only. Oh whatever, that's where it is already. That and hmm, I already suggested AFD is a WONTFIX earlier, so ... I'll just hush then. Try PROD instead? -- Kim Bruning 16:28, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Notifying the related WikiProjects may be a good idea if you are sure that they can help in fixing the article (with reliable sources and such). However, the notice must be as neutral as possible. Just tell them that any opinions will be greatly appreciated. I've started some AfDs before, but in the course of the discussion, reliable sources were found, so the article is kept.-- Kylohk 20:46, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Do most people put articles they really care about (one way or the other) on their watch list? I default my watchlist to include any article I edit. I then periodically go through my watchlist and remove references to articles I no longer care about. I'm curious what other people do-- Work permit 21:17, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
This just sprung up all of a sudden. Please comment here. Thanks. Quadzilla99 15:55, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
This seems like an appropriate place for this. I have been redirecting single episode articles because they don't meet this guideline's requirements of real world information backed by sources, and they don't show any sort of promise for improvement. After being mass reverted for a reason of "no consensus" (though it was really for other reasons), I have placed silly messages on episode list talk pages. As I expected, few have been actually noticed, and most won't really bring in any attention. Should I just screw the people that think discussion is required for this kind of thing, or should I just wait for people not to respond to the messages for a few days in all cases? It seems really pointless because, either way, they're going to be redirected. It is only worth it for high traffic articles. TTN 18:33, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Please stop recklessly redirecting articles. If you have a problem with them, flag them instead of redirecting. Damn. â Zachary talk 22:19, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Here are some ideas for what information to include about a television episode, where possible:
* A brief summary of the episode's plot * The episode's relevance in ongoing story arcs, if any * How the episode was received by critics * Information on production and broadcasting of the episode
68.72.141.190 22:22, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
well do whatever you want, but as soon as you move on to somewhat mainstream articles be prepared to have things reverted and categorized as stubs as you are just going on what you think without even getting input from others 68.72.141.190
I am no fan of having these articles on episodes but I believe what you are doing is very, very wrong. If you want to redirect, you should be making sure that the important substance of the work that the editors have done on the episodes is preserved on the list of episode pages. You are deleting these at the rate of one a minute. You are never adding anything from the episode. Are you even reading them? You are spending a few minutes to delete hundreds of hours of other editor's work without even making any attempt to see if any of the content should be preserved. Do the job right if you are going to do it. Act like an editor, not like a bot. -- DS1953 talk 01:11, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
TTN, I think this is being a little too strict. Episodes are fine to have their own pages, and you'd be surprised how much they can be sourced, especially for popular shows: in cases like that, don't redirect but let them improve organically. Articles don't have to be perfect. For shows that aren't as popular, it may not make sense to cover every episode separately, as the critical analysis may not exist in reliable sources. But then, the right thing to do would be to merge the articles together into larger ones, like an annotated list of episodes or articles on an entire season. I think that by redirecting in those cases you're doing the wrong thing. What you should do in that case is explain the situation on the talk page for the show or its list of episodes, or whever the merge would happen, and explain that you don't think the individual episodes in this case are covered enough in sources to be able to meet WP:EPISODE, and try to work out a solution. You might get people finding sources (which would be a good thing), or you might get people to reach an agreement that the episodes should be merged together. Or, you might find that people feel it's okay to have just a list, you never know. Or, they may disagree with you and you may have to work harder to come to a decision, such as through an WP:AFD debate or a {{ merge}} tag or an WP:RFC. But if you just go around redirecting, it'll simply remove content until someone gets around to disagreeing with you and reverting it, so it won't really lead to any improvement in the long run, just a little less cruft right now. Mango juice talk 14:43, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
I couldn't help but notice Mangojuice said "..as it doesn't describe common practice (which a guideline is supposed to do)..". Ok, lets get this cleared up, common practice is not always what a guideline should be, because common practice can be a very bad thing. Common practice or behavior isn't always consensus. Consensus suggests that people have been able to reasonably consider all sides of the issue and come to a conclusion. Sometimes people just do "monkey see monkey do", or they just assume that it's ok to put up nothing but plot summary and trivial information. Guidelines do not describe common practice, they describe what should be common practice. -- Ned Scott 08:46, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Chris is right. It was rather unfair for you to mindlessly redirect those pages without the creator(s) consent. Angie Y. 14:01, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
What I'm not understanding is why people are griping over my editing instead of actually trying to improve the articles. They say "you should have brought it up before, so people could try to meet the guideline", but now that it has been brought up and reverted, they just sit there. Only one editor has done anything (merging episodes into seasons or something). The rest just claim that they can be improved, while not actually providing a method. This is the main problem; episodes don't warrant their own existence. They have to earn it with out of universe information, and so far only a small number of series have shown that. With these crufty things, we need to have them prove their worth or we'll get nowhere. TTN 20:16, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
This link is probably more appropriate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Mass_deletion_of_television_articles_by_TTN
There has been a lot of debate recently around deleting lists of people grouped by ethnicity, race, religion, and other cultural groupings. Unfortunately, Wikipedia:Categorization of people deals with this issue from the point of view of categories; there is no guideline for the similar but distinct lists of people. As a result, there has been a ton of confusion on this issue. To try and lend so clarity to the situation, I have created Wikipedia:Proposed guideline for lists of people by ethnicity, religion, and other cultural categorizations. Much of the wording of this proposed guideline comes from Wikipedia:Categorization of people but it has been tailored to fit the specific needs of lists. I hope people will join the discussion on the proposed guideline and make changes as needed. Best,-- Alabamaboy 14:25, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
I know the community is at a cross roads with the entire concept of Fair Use and if community consensus goes the way of banning all non-free content, I really wouldn't have a problem. However, I am concerned with the subjective application of WP:FAIRUSE and in particularly the vague "Replaceable clause" as it applies to Fair Use images for individuals who are deceased. At its most literal point, every possible conceivable image could be deemed replaceable under the "hypothetical assumption" that under some rock, somewhere is a free image just waiting to be uploaded to Wikipedia. Banking on that rational one could successfully argue for the deletion of every fair use image. In most cases, especially on BLPs and non-human objects, the replaceable clause is quite reasonable because if all else fails an editor who wants an image can pick up their camera and go take the picture. However that logic hits a road block when the subject is a deceased individual (or an historical event for that matter). In those circumstances the pool of potential free images is dramatically reduced with the opportunity for anyone to grab their camera and snap a picture being non-existent. This creates an inherent systematic bias towards images for articles of living people and non-human objects at the expense of the encyclopedic quality and service of articles about deceased individuals. Again, if the community wishes to go the route of banning all fair use then this is a moot point but the current wording of WP:FAIRUSE, and certainly its application, seems to have this glaring hole and bias when it comes to the "replaceable clause". Agne Cheese/ Wine 06:57, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
A process is needed to ensure that speedy deletions of articles which allegedly violate WP:BLP, but do not meet CSD G10, do not result in wheel wars or other disruption, of the type described in Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Badlydrawnjeff. I have suggested such a process at Wikipedia:BLP Deletion Process. John254 23:27, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
There's an article of a high school musical director. Is that allowed here on Wikipedia. I don't know where, but I'd like to propose its deletion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duane_Otani
- 71.240.184.236 03:24, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
I need your help, please. Who should I contact to denounce the Spanish Wikipedia? They are violating the most basic policies, deleting sections and articles without consulting previously with the editors, blocking user IP's just for putting an external link to an official fan club in the article of an artist, and I could state hundreds of arbitrary and unethical actions the admins do there. Thank you in advance. -- TheMexican ( talk) 15:44, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
I also added some more things into the criticism section of the article about the Spanish Wikipedia with strong and verifiably arguments. -- TheMexican ( talk) 16:04, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
The thruth is that it is not about a problem that someone has with Spanish administrators, but many people have this problem, as administrators do not keep the basic ethical rules, and, as in the Spanish Wikipedia article is stated, they are acting according to their personal interests. I can say that not even the community votes are fair, because those who will vote against an article, are all the friends or interested people of the the admins. I did write my complaint to a Steward. -- TheMexican ( talk) 08:34, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Each language Wikipedia is more or less autonomous. See m:Foundation issues for policies that are binding on all Wikimedia projects. Basically, the only things the Spanish Wikipedia can't do are:
If you feel the Spanish Wikipedia administrators are engaging in one of the above actions, I'd suggest emailing one of our friendly Wikimedia Trustees. That's what they're here for. szyslak 11:10, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
In many countries, there are legal restrictions on what kind of information can be published about a criminal defendant. Some countries prohibit, or allow judges to prohibit, information that can identify a defendant before he or she is convicted, or any information that can identify a juvenile convict, or information that can influence a jury pool. This issue has come up in articles about criminals on trial in Sweden, for instance, as well as articles on juvenile criminals in Canada and even an article on a deceased convict in Germany.
Recently, a Danish editor removed information about a criminal defendant from the article 2008 UEFA qualifier fan attack because of a Danish court order. I pointed out that Wikipedia is not subject to Danish law. The other editor is of the opinion the English Wikipedia should abide by the Danish ruling.
I think there ought to be an official Wikipedia policy on publication bans -- something along the like of: "We don't have to honor them, and information shouldn't be removed because of them. But a publication ban may make it hard to find reliable sources on a person or subject, and, in that case, the information should be omitted on the grounds of WP:RS." -- Mwalcoff 23:20, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
:-)
). Because Wikipedia is well-accessible in Denmark (
and in Danish, too), we also run the risk of prejudice to any criminal proceedings that result.
81.104.175.145 08:16, 9 June 2007 (UTC)Publication bans aside... If someone is contesting an issue in a court case or pending court case, it does seem prudent to withhold sections that are being contested. For instance, say we have newspaper articles that say 'Mister X stole the Pink Diamonds', but Mister X is contesting that in a court case, it might be inappropriate for a Wikipedia article to say 'Mister X stole the Pink Diamonds' even if we can cite those newspapers. For one thing, the court case may well decide that 'Mister X was framed by Mister Y'. We can certainly state that there's a court case pending or in progress, but we should be careful. -- Barberio 18:06, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
Hi! I just put out an article Crimson Circle (Shaumbra), that I've worked with for quite some time, and made a disambiguation page. After two hours all my work were gone, deleted by an administrator. It is very frustraing to see ones good work just beeing deleted. Sometimes I just feel this place sucks. Resigned and frustrated Geir 14:05, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
(Ps. The section secondary sources is added afterwards.)
I really can't see any reason why this is notable. The deleting admin seems to me to have been entirely correct and not to have been vandalising in any way. And I hate to say it, but it's really not very well written. The English is most peculiar and it's very difficult to see what you're getting at. I appreciate English isn't your first language, but articles on English Wikipedia do need to be more readable than that. -- Necrothesp 18:45, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Thank you everyone for your time and concern! Geir 13:09, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of arrested Bengals. Is copying something from here to sportsargumentwiki.com a copyright violation? Especially since the copy was done without attribution to the Wikipedia article as required by GFDL, and since the sportsargumentwiki is not using a compatible license. If so, is there anything that can be done about it now? Corvus cornix 06:53, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Some of you might be aware of WP:EPISODE, which is our guideline for dealing with articles about an individual episode from a show. Before it had the shortcut WP:EPISODE and the current title, Wikipedia:Television episodes, it was known as Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Television episodes [7]. Well, it still says pretty much the same thing as before, but some recent redirecting of episode articles that weren't seen as notable lead us to some new activity on the talk page of WP:EPISODE. We're now looking for input and comments to expanding the guideline at WT:EPISODE#Suggested expansion of guidelines. -- Ned Scott 04:10, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
If, in seeing the account pattern of a vandal with multiple accounts, I believe that I know some future accounts, may I create those accounts to prevent the vandal from getting them? This situation is one which happenned recently. Od Mishehu 09:40, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I may have missed some announcement, or missed the big community debate over this, but for some reasons the OTRS volunteers working on en.wikipedia seem to belive they have special super-admin powers. Specifically that edits made 'as OTRS edits' can not be reverted by normal editors or admin.
The OTRS pages on Meta seem to suggest exactly the opposite, that OTRS volunteers are expected to work within the consensus lead framework of each individual project. ("OTRS is not a Badge" in the 'introduction' section.) Proposals that there should be special 'super-admin' powers granted to some vetted users has been a perennial suggestion in the past, but has never gained support.
I think we need to make this clear to OTRS volunteers that unless there's a discussion that produces consensus support or a specific declaration by the Wikimedia Foundation, OTRS Volunteers do not have special powers on this project. -- Barberio 15:35, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
In articles with no direct relation to an Anglophonic country, should American English or British English be used? âThe preceding unsigned comment was added by RockRNC ( talk ⢠contribs).
It's a matter of consistency. Both types of English should not be used simutaneously in an article. It's either this or that. Apart from this, a popular practice is to choose the spelling type depending on the subject. E.g. if the article is something to do with Britain, Australia, etc, use British English. This is particularly true for films.-- Kylohk 19:55, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
This afd Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Arbuthnot, 6th Viscount of Arbuthnott I hope will be a test case for whether the Wikipedia community wants thousands of these stub like articles on non notable peers. I am not against articles on peers who have actually done anything of note but to have thousands of these articles that just say x was born and married y and then died is just pure idiocy. There is no reason why these people cannot be covered on the relevant Wikipedia article for the title in question. If you support my view please comment on the above afd. Thanks Gustav von Humpelschmumpel 19:32, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
There is a proposed guideline for naming the Republic of Macedonia and Macedonia (Greece) at Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Macedonia-related articles). Please come, read, and comment; we would like to have a guideline. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:20, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
I have posted a message on the talk page of WP:SPOILER addressing the apparent lack of consensus and proposing the guideline be marked historical. Please join the discussion. Vassyana 19:42, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Here a quote from the talk page of Akhilleus, who lately deleted Toki Pona. Please reconsiderate and review together this decision. -- LaPingvino ( 192.87.49.2 08:13, 12 June 2007 (UTC))
Begin quote:
toki pona
Hi, why was the toki pona page removed? thanks AJ
- See discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Toki Pona (2nd nomination). --Akhilleus ( talk) 14:09, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
- Most people in that discussion voted to keep. Furtheron, it became one of the biggest conlangs in the last years, having more than 100 speakers, and in some time will probably pass by languages like Ido. Yet it seems to be more in use than Lojban. And I often came back to read the article, because it really is interesting. And this article has many interwiki-links too, which indicates a lot too. So please put the article back! -- LaPingvino, moderator of the biggest toki pona mailing list (moderated, few hundred members), fluent speaker
End quote
Recently there has been active debate and gradual changes of the policy, which now comes to a head as some editors argue the changes have been made without consensus, and that a survey of opinion has been biased and not representative of the community's true position on the matter. We need more people to take part in the discussion so that there can be no allegation of bias in the process, and hopefully achieve a consensus on the policy reasonably soon. Please visit Wikipedia talk:Main Page featured article protection. 07:48, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Is there any polices against branching pages. A page thats branches off a user page, (Noit on it, it's it's own page, but it's just branching off another page.) Cuz i made two so far and is still making some. The pages are Which Wiki are you and The Daily Journal.
変 Nikro 23:39, 11 June 2007 (UTC)