This page contains discussions that have been archived from Village pump (policy). Please do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to revive any of these discussions, either start a new thread or use the talk page associated with that topic.
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Following a discussion at WT:NC(S), a new proposal has been created for naming conventions applying purely to United States school articles, in a attempt to more easily gain consensus for adoption. Some input from the community at WT:NC(USS) would be great. Camaron1 | Chris 17:22, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Is there a standard about how important a topic should be to have its own portal? The one I am concerned about is Portal:Scientology. Thanks. Steve Dufour 22:11, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
I made a comment regarding American author James A. Michener and his racism. I flat out called him a racist in his wiki article, which last time I checked is accurate, so even if it is incendiary why should the truth be blocked? why should my IP address by flagged for conduct? The man made repeated comments in his own books regarding the inferiority of the black basketball player and their negative impact on the game. What is wrong for calling him out for what he is? If this is somehow wrong please let me know how....yaogrady@yahoo.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.114.68.230 ( talk) 05:33, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Well, 50 years ago, thinks were really different from know, and so were the people's opinions. As it is such an old case, I think you should not worry about it so much. If only it would have been recent, aye, but it wasn't. -The Bold Guy- 14:55, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
That's because it's Wikipedia. They will restrain you from contributing anything which is actually truthful. That's their purpose for existence, insuring the proliferation of ignorance, and they are very good at it. 173.212.120.71 ( talk) 12:39, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
Hello everyone! How does one (or in this case a group) go about trying to change a guideline into a policy? We at WikiProject Accessibility are using the guideline laid down at WP:ACCESS as our basis for making articles more accessible, but individual editors have reported problems with other users reverting their edits and claiming they need to be discussed on the talk page because WP:ACCESS is a guideline. Only in very rare cases are we actually removing content, so obviously this is getting to be a hindrance. Do you folks have any suggestions? Thanks, L'Aquatique talktome 18:25, 20 October 2007 (UTC)!
Changing a guideline to a policy is a big change, so probably we must give a better explanation about our proposal. We are a small group with only a few members. But even if we were a large team, simply we can fix the accessibility problems of all the 2,000,000 articles (and counting) of the Wikipedia, moreover if we must discuss them at the talk pages before. If editors create new contents with accessibility in mind, that would be a real difference, that's the reason we are interested in a policy about universal access. We only want to have the needed tools to make our work. Of course we know that the current guideline will probably be modified, it is not perfect and consensus will improve it. But I would like to remark that accessibility doesn't mean wikipedians without disabilities will end with articles having less rich content or presentation (there is a common myth that a plain text page is more accessible, and that's false). As I said above, modern web standards are built with accessibility in mind, so an article can be very rich and visually pleasant but without accessibility problems. The main point is not if the current guidelines are good enough to be a policy, but if universal access should be considered a Wikipedia policy. Thanks — surueña 21:11, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
As the writer of the first substantial text that was on Wikipedia:Accessibility, I feel I need to comment here. The great value for almost all people about Wikipedia is its consistent interface across millions of articles. However if someone decided to revert my change of the order of final section headings for a good reason related to their article, I wouldn't revert them because I don't think it's a huge thing to worry about. Wikipedia:Accessibility is not a stick to bludgeon people with - it's just a set of style guidelines akin to the Manual of Style. Of course there are things in there I consider are fairly high priority, like spelling fixes and abuse of CSS as in hidden structure. I think the discussion at Talk:Pulp Fiction (film) #RfC: Ellipses was worth it to provide an alternative to inconsistent formatting that didn't work in all browsers. I also think the table of contents shouldn't be moved from its default position below an article's lead section without a very good reason. I do support the idea of accessibility for Wikipedia - but the way I see it, the only thing that could be codified into policy is "Wikipedia should strive to be accessible to as many users as possible." Graham 87 00:52, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Currently, Wikipedia:Guide to deletion states:
It is generally considered civil to notify the good-faith creator and any main contributors of the articles that you are nominating for deletion.
If this should be changed or deleted is being discussed at Wikipedia talk:Guide to deletion#Deletion request notification. — Sebastian 20:02, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
For those blissfully unaware
Wikipedia:Userbox migration was created over a year ago to solve the then escalating "userbox conflict". It proposed that most userboxes were moved to userspace and thus be protected from the extensive CSD:T1 "divisive and/or inflammatory template" deletions (Examples for T1 deleted templates included "This user is an atheist", "This user is
Furry" and "This user supports recycling").
At that time it explicitly stated it was not a new policy nor would a new policy be necessary (as any attempts to resolve the userbox dispute by introducing new policies lead to a deadlock due to lack of consensus) and in a sense, it retains it's
be bold roots.
Still
WP:UBM has become a de-facto standard when it comes to the question of userboxes in templatespace, in TfD debates (Userfy by
WP:UBM), and because of this I and several others believe that it has become a de-facto guideline and should be labeled as such.
Another user however believes that it is superfluous to
WP:UBX, "essentially a statement to Be bold", and as such not a guideline. Discussion with him has been exhausted, and now goes in circles.
So I'd like to gather some outside input on the issue - what are your thoughts?
Charon
X/
talk 13:51, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
If a source that is considered reliable, such as an established newspaper or television news organisation includes a report in an article attributing a comment anonymously, eg in a newspaper article that mentions the "lunar college of vacuum technology", text such as "consumer advocates referred to the lunar college of vacuum technology as a diploma mill" appeared, would it be appropriate to cite the newspaper as a reference for the statement "consumer advocates consider the lunar college of vacuum technology to be a diploma mill" in a WP article? I don't believe there's verifiable reliable sources for the statement from WPs viewpoint. DMcMPO11AAUK/ Talk/ Contribs 14:33, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
I’ve been tagging bad pages for CSD for a while now with no problems. Then I came on to Cars.com which i believe falls under A7 guide lines for CSD. Well it seem that the person that created it was an Admin. My question is does this fall under A7 for CSD and is the creator of that page allowed to remove the tag (and say it’s not a CSD) or is there some other process that needs to be done. I personally fell this admin is kind of abusing his powers and not going by policy, because he is the creator of the page. (look at the comments made on the history part of the page). So again does this fall und CSD A7 and is the creator of the page who is an admin allowed to remove the delete tag, or does he have to do the same thing as anyone else who creates a possibly bad page? Yourname 00:54, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Is there any section for how to: deal with Government? Frequently the inner workings of government are arcane. Much of this information, could be provided by Government "Users" in much more concise form than the government's own web sites. Some examples are who to contact for parade permits, where to file to pay sales tax, what process to follow with HANO (Housing Authority of New Orleans) for transferring Section 8 property to a new owner. On a national level, how do I file for a grant for bike paths? How do I lobby a congressman? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Boathead ( talk • contribs) 03:47, 21 October 2007 (UTC) Boathead 03:48, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Even outdated it would be far better than the current city of New Orleans web site
People were so desperate for information for a while there. It seems that Wiki should be an amazing resource in the immediate aftermath of a Katrina for instance. I'd wager that in that circumstance Wiki would be very up to date. Boathead 04:38, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
A subject has a number of related articles in Wikipedia and has a navigation template that helps to categorize them. Is it considered proper Wikipedia form to include links to outside sites (in this case - fan sites) within such a navigation template? I can't find any official policies or recommendations that would help stop an edit war. 144.15.255.227 20:46, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
See: Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content#Non-free_text
At present the non-free content criteria prohibits any "non-free content" outside of article space. It has been pointed out that technically the current language also prohibits users from using non-free text (i.e. quotes) outside of article space. As that's probably not the intention, the criterion probably need to be adjusted. Please join that discussion. Dragons flight 21:41, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I do not know where to ask this question. If this is the wrong place, please let me know.
Is it Wikipedia policy or guideline that in order to use a third party source for citing material in an article, you have to consult that source yourself? Or is it O.K. to copy the source from another article and used it without consulting it directly? Thanks! -- Mattisse 19:12, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
I've started a discussion here on adding literary works and films to the list of items that can be deleted per WP:CSD#A7. SashaCall ( Sign!)/( Talk!) 01:37, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Recently, I nominated Category:Wikipedians for deletion on UCFD, proposing the following rationale:
- Nominator's rationale - The test tube nomination - This is no doubt going to raise a few alarms. After all, it would seem unthinkable, frivolous, and perhaps in bad faith to delete the core user category of Wikipedia, and thus throw all forms of self-categorization as comprehended by the Wikipedia community. Yet, this outrageous action does not come with no rationale.
- User categories are redundant - First, the prospect of the user category - in theory - is a fairly versatile and collective idealism. Users group together into a single category with their given knowledge or interest and this will be used to further the collaboration effort on Wikipedia. However, this is redundant to the Wikiproject. User categories are passive while Wikiprojects are active, and people who wish to seek collaboration on interests on an active scale can easily join a Wikiproject. Furthermore, any means of self-identification of interests can be done via userbox or identification on a userpage. If a Wikipedian is actively posting, he or she must therefore sign his or her signature, and a person who wishes to understand the position of this Wikipedian may merely click to the userpage and gather any information, or inquire as such.
- User categories are divisive - Wikipedians are, in fact, divided by user categories. Tensions regarding self-identification with political, religious, social, and sexual issues occur as a result, as previous debates on UCFD have shown in the past. The persistent roundabouts of the deletions of frivolous and potentially heated categories are a testament to this rationale. WP:NOT#SOAPBOX and such. In addition, there are categories present that indicate "notable" or "fantastic" Wikipedians, or those with community valor. There are alternate methods to present these symbols of status than through the user category system.
- User categories are staggering - ...and as a result, their purpose is lost. When you have an intensely large number of user categories in divisions such as Wikipedians by language, Wikipedians by ethnicity, or Wikipedians by location, one can see that it may seem far better to overhaul the user category system or merely provide sufficient indication by userbox/user page notice as a result.
- User categories are red tape - Really, would one actively search through user categories for a Wikipedian skilled in "foo" profession to aid in the construction or improvement of an article? It is more likely than not that the Wikipedian is already working actively on such an article, or it is already part of a Wikiproject.
- Conclusion: User categories need an overhaul, for better or for worse - Let's bring this to light. We need to do something to the user category system. Either an outright deletion, a depopulation, or a compression to something that we can make sense of. You may call me crazy, but I truly believe that something needs to be done to reshape this category.
I withdrew the UCFD later at the request of an administrator, who stated that he was currently in the process of overhauling the system, and that if any deletion was to be done at this level, it would be prudent to do so in a month. Yet consider my above statements; what has the user category system done for us that can be achieved more efficiently and satisfactorily with Wikiprojects, userboxes, user pages, and other Wikipedia think tanks?-- WaltCip 22:32, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
User:Professional Deletionist has just deleted the following: University Challenge from my userpage, leaving the note: "this category is not for user space". No reference to the applicable policy, and in any event, where else would this category go but user space?? Can anyone point me to policy and whether it's changed recently, or can I just revert it as vandalism? While I WP:AGF, just to do this without leaving anything on my talk page referring to policy seems a breach of WP:Civil. Thanks. -- Rodhullandemu ( talk - contribs) 17:17, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi there, I'm involved in a current dispute with User:Mattisse, and I'd like to ask for a clarification of the above thread with regard to the precise situation in the dispute.
I know Mattisse asked whether you have to consult a source before citing it - I know the answer is yes. That's all fine. However, the situation in our dispute is a little different. To be precise, User:Mattisse wrote a properly sourced statement in one article. I took the statement, along with the source, into another article. Is that allowed, given that Mattisse presumably checked the source himself? The crucial distinction with what Mattisse is asking, in case it is not clear, is that what is copied is not just the source itself, but the statement, supported by the source. For example, if I write "Tiananmen Square is 500 metres across [cite some book]" in Tiananmen Square, would another editor be able to copy that statement, source and all, into Tiananmen Square massacre?
My view is that this is in accordance with policy, since the statement, in its new location, is still just as supported by the source cited as it was when it was at its old location. It is only a change of location, not a substantive change to the statement.
I just find Mattisse's contention (that you can't copy a statement with its source from one article to another) a little bizzare, since it implies that:
Your help is greatly appreciated. -- PalaceGuard008 ( Talk) 00:16, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia:No original research has been unprotected after a long period due to repeated disputes. The main focus of the disagreements has centered around WP:PSTS. There have been some changes since unprotection that seem relatively uncontroversial and within consensus. [20] There are two proposed changes to the policy ( Wikipedia talk:No original research#Wikipedia:No original research#Reliable sources and Wikipedia talk:No original research#Taking the dive (PSTS proposal)). Please also be aware a variety of proposals were recently reviewed ( Wikipedia talk:No original research#Alternative proposals: straw poll.), mainly based on two approaches to the section. Further input is welcome and encouraged. Vassyana 23:11, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
I asked a question about and User:PalaceGuard008 asked a question below mine on his copying text and sources from another Wikipedia article. We disagree on what you said. He says what you said was that it is O.K. to copy text and sources and put them in a different context.
I wrote an article in which I used sources referencing ancient Chinese history. User:PalaceGuard008 copied much of the text and all the book sources and put them in his article Caisson (Asian architecture) which is mostly about a period in Chinese architecture that is much later. Further, he has incorrectly applied the book references in the context of his article. I have endlessly discussed this with him on the article talk page, his talk page and my talk page.
In the answers you gave up regarding copying sources and text from other Wikipedia articles, were you saying that his copying text and references from one Wikipedia article and putting them in a different context in Caisson (Asian architecture) is correct? I have the books and he is misusing the references.
If you agree with me that he is acting incorrectly what should I do? If I try to remove any he just reverts. I even supplied an online source that referenced a statement he was using one of the books I have for, and he reverted that also.
If you say he is right, then I will drop the issue. Thanks! -- Mattisse 01:33, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
This page contains discussions that have been archived from Village pump (policy). Please do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to revive any of these discussions, either start a new thread or use the talk page associated with that topic.
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Following a discussion at WT:NC(S), a new proposal has been created for naming conventions applying purely to United States school articles, in a attempt to more easily gain consensus for adoption. Some input from the community at WT:NC(USS) would be great. Camaron1 | Chris 17:22, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Is there a standard about how important a topic should be to have its own portal? The one I am concerned about is Portal:Scientology. Thanks. Steve Dufour 22:11, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
I made a comment regarding American author James A. Michener and his racism. I flat out called him a racist in his wiki article, which last time I checked is accurate, so even if it is incendiary why should the truth be blocked? why should my IP address by flagged for conduct? The man made repeated comments in his own books regarding the inferiority of the black basketball player and their negative impact on the game. What is wrong for calling him out for what he is? If this is somehow wrong please let me know how....yaogrady@yahoo.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.114.68.230 ( talk) 05:33, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Well, 50 years ago, thinks were really different from know, and so were the people's opinions. As it is such an old case, I think you should not worry about it so much. If only it would have been recent, aye, but it wasn't. -The Bold Guy- 14:55, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
That's because it's Wikipedia. They will restrain you from contributing anything which is actually truthful. That's their purpose for existence, insuring the proliferation of ignorance, and they are very good at it. 173.212.120.71 ( talk) 12:39, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
Hello everyone! How does one (or in this case a group) go about trying to change a guideline into a policy? We at WikiProject Accessibility are using the guideline laid down at WP:ACCESS as our basis for making articles more accessible, but individual editors have reported problems with other users reverting their edits and claiming they need to be discussed on the talk page because WP:ACCESS is a guideline. Only in very rare cases are we actually removing content, so obviously this is getting to be a hindrance. Do you folks have any suggestions? Thanks, L'Aquatique talktome 18:25, 20 October 2007 (UTC)!
Changing a guideline to a policy is a big change, so probably we must give a better explanation about our proposal. We are a small group with only a few members. But even if we were a large team, simply we can fix the accessibility problems of all the 2,000,000 articles (and counting) of the Wikipedia, moreover if we must discuss them at the talk pages before. If editors create new contents with accessibility in mind, that would be a real difference, that's the reason we are interested in a policy about universal access. We only want to have the needed tools to make our work. Of course we know that the current guideline will probably be modified, it is not perfect and consensus will improve it. But I would like to remark that accessibility doesn't mean wikipedians without disabilities will end with articles having less rich content or presentation (there is a common myth that a plain text page is more accessible, and that's false). As I said above, modern web standards are built with accessibility in mind, so an article can be very rich and visually pleasant but without accessibility problems. The main point is not if the current guidelines are good enough to be a policy, but if universal access should be considered a Wikipedia policy. Thanks — surueña 21:11, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
As the writer of the first substantial text that was on Wikipedia:Accessibility, I feel I need to comment here. The great value for almost all people about Wikipedia is its consistent interface across millions of articles. However if someone decided to revert my change of the order of final section headings for a good reason related to their article, I wouldn't revert them because I don't think it's a huge thing to worry about. Wikipedia:Accessibility is not a stick to bludgeon people with - it's just a set of style guidelines akin to the Manual of Style. Of course there are things in there I consider are fairly high priority, like spelling fixes and abuse of CSS as in hidden structure. I think the discussion at Talk:Pulp Fiction (film) #RfC: Ellipses was worth it to provide an alternative to inconsistent formatting that didn't work in all browsers. I also think the table of contents shouldn't be moved from its default position below an article's lead section without a very good reason. I do support the idea of accessibility for Wikipedia - but the way I see it, the only thing that could be codified into policy is "Wikipedia should strive to be accessible to as many users as possible." Graham 87 00:52, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Currently, Wikipedia:Guide to deletion states:
It is generally considered civil to notify the good-faith creator and any main contributors of the articles that you are nominating for deletion.
If this should be changed or deleted is being discussed at Wikipedia talk:Guide to deletion#Deletion request notification. — Sebastian 20:02, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
For those blissfully unaware
Wikipedia:Userbox migration was created over a year ago to solve the then escalating "userbox conflict". It proposed that most userboxes were moved to userspace and thus be protected from the extensive CSD:T1 "divisive and/or inflammatory template" deletions (Examples for T1 deleted templates included "This user is an atheist", "This user is
Furry" and "This user supports recycling").
At that time it explicitly stated it was not a new policy nor would a new policy be necessary (as any attempts to resolve the userbox dispute by introducing new policies lead to a deadlock due to lack of consensus) and in a sense, it retains it's
be bold roots.
Still
WP:UBM has become a de-facto standard when it comes to the question of userboxes in templatespace, in TfD debates (Userfy by
WP:UBM), and because of this I and several others believe that it has become a de-facto guideline and should be labeled as such.
Another user however believes that it is superfluous to
WP:UBX, "essentially a statement to Be bold", and as such not a guideline. Discussion with him has been exhausted, and now goes in circles.
So I'd like to gather some outside input on the issue - what are your thoughts?
Charon
X/
talk 13:51, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
If a source that is considered reliable, such as an established newspaper or television news organisation includes a report in an article attributing a comment anonymously, eg in a newspaper article that mentions the "lunar college of vacuum technology", text such as "consumer advocates referred to the lunar college of vacuum technology as a diploma mill" appeared, would it be appropriate to cite the newspaper as a reference for the statement "consumer advocates consider the lunar college of vacuum technology to be a diploma mill" in a WP article? I don't believe there's verifiable reliable sources for the statement from WPs viewpoint. DMcMPO11AAUK/ Talk/ Contribs 14:33, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
I’ve been tagging bad pages for CSD for a while now with no problems. Then I came on to Cars.com which i believe falls under A7 guide lines for CSD. Well it seem that the person that created it was an Admin. My question is does this fall under A7 for CSD and is the creator of that page allowed to remove the tag (and say it’s not a CSD) or is there some other process that needs to be done. I personally fell this admin is kind of abusing his powers and not going by policy, because he is the creator of the page. (look at the comments made on the history part of the page). So again does this fall und CSD A7 and is the creator of the page who is an admin allowed to remove the delete tag, or does he have to do the same thing as anyone else who creates a possibly bad page? Yourname 00:54, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Is there any section for how to: deal with Government? Frequently the inner workings of government are arcane. Much of this information, could be provided by Government "Users" in much more concise form than the government's own web sites. Some examples are who to contact for parade permits, where to file to pay sales tax, what process to follow with HANO (Housing Authority of New Orleans) for transferring Section 8 property to a new owner. On a national level, how do I file for a grant for bike paths? How do I lobby a congressman? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Boathead ( talk • contribs) 03:47, 21 October 2007 (UTC) Boathead 03:48, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Even outdated it would be far better than the current city of New Orleans web site
People were so desperate for information for a while there. It seems that Wiki should be an amazing resource in the immediate aftermath of a Katrina for instance. I'd wager that in that circumstance Wiki would be very up to date. Boathead 04:38, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
A subject has a number of related articles in Wikipedia and has a navigation template that helps to categorize them. Is it considered proper Wikipedia form to include links to outside sites (in this case - fan sites) within such a navigation template? I can't find any official policies or recommendations that would help stop an edit war. 144.15.255.227 20:46, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
See: Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content#Non-free_text
At present the non-free content criteria prohibits any "non-free content" outside of article space. It has been pointed out that technically the current language also prohibits users from using non-free text (i.e. quotes) outside of article space. As that's probably not the intention, the criterion probably need to be adjusted. Please join that discussion. Dragons flight 21:41, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I do not know where to ask this question. If this is the wrong place, please let me know.
Is it Wikipedia policy or guideline that in order to use a third party source for citing material in an article, you have to consult that source yourself? Or is it O.K. to copy the source from another article and used it without consulting it directly? Thanks! -- Mattisse 19:12, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
I've started a discussion here on adding literary works and films to the list of items that can be deleted per WP:CSD#A7. SashaCall ( Sign!)/( Talk!) 01:37, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Recently, I nominated Category:Wikipedians for deletion on UCFD, proposing the following rationale:
- Nominator's rationale - The test tube nomination - This is no doubt going to raise a few alarms. After all, it would seem unthinkable, frivolous, and perhaps in bad faith to delete the core user category of Wikipedia, and thus throw all forms of self-categorization as comprehended by the Wikipedia community. Yet, this outrageous action does not come with no rationale.
- User categories are redundant - First, the prospect of the user category - in theory - is a fairly versatile and collective idealism. Users group together into a single category with their given knowledge or interest and this will be used to further the collaboration effort on Wikipedia. However, this is redundant to the Wikiproject. User categories are passive while Wikiprojects are active, and people who wish to seek collaboration on interests on an active scale can easily join a Wikiproject. Furthermore, any means of self-identification of interests can be done via userbox or identification on a userpage. If a Wikipedian is actively posting, he or she must therefore sign his or her signature, and a person who wishes to understand the position of this Wikipedian may merely click to the userpage and gather any information, or inquire as such.
- User categories are divisive - Wikipedians are, in fact, divided by user categories. Tensions regarding self-identification with political, religious, social, and sexual issues occur as a result, as previous debates on UCFD have shown in the past. The persistent roundabouts of the deletions of frivolous and potentially heated categories are a testament to this rationale. WP:NOT#SOAPBOX and such. In addition, there are categories present that indicate "notable" or "fantastic" Wikipedians, or those with community valor. There are alternate methods to present these symbols of status than through the user category system.
- User categories are staggering - ...and as a result, their purpose is lost. When you have an intensely large number of user categories in divisions such as Wikipedians by language, Wikipedians by ethnicity, or Wikipedians by location, one can see that it may seem far better to overhaul the user category system or merely provide sufficient indication by userbox/user page notice as a result.
- User categories are red tape - Really, would one actively search through user categories for a Wikipedian skilled in "foo" profession to aid in the construction or improvement of an article? It is more likely than not that the Wikipedian is already working actively on such an article, or it is already part of a Wikiproject.
- Conclusion: User categories need an overhaul, for better or for worse - Let's bring this to light. We need to do something to the user category system. Either an outright deletion, a depopulation, or a compression to something that we can make sense of. You may call me crazy, but I truly believe that something needs to be done to reshape this category.
I withdrew the UCFD later at the request of an administrator, who stated that he was currently in the process of overhauling the system, and that if any deletion was to be done at this level, it would be prudent to do so in a month. Yet consider my above statements; what has the user category system done for us that can be achieved more efficiently and satisfactorily with Wikiprojects, userboxes, user pages, and other Wikipedia think tanks?-- WaltCip 22:32, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
User:Professional Deletionist has just deleted the following: University Challenge from my userpage, leaving the note: "this category is not for user space". No reference to the applicable policy, and in any event, where else would this category go but user space?? Can anyone point me to policy and whether it's changed recently, or can I just revert it as vandalism? While I WP:AGF, just to do this without leaving anything on my talk page referring to policy seems a breach of WP:Civil. Thanks. -- Rodhullandemu ( talk - contribs) 17:17, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi there, I'm involved in a current dispute with User:Mattisse, and I'd like to ask for a clarification of the above thread with regard to the precise situation in the dispute.
I know Mattisse asked whether you have to consult a source before citing it - I know the answer is yes. That's all fine. However, the situation in our dispute is a little different. To be precise, User:Mattisse wrote a properly sourced statement in one article. I took the statement, along with the source, into another article. Is that allowed, given that Mattisse presumably checked the source himself? The crucial distinction with what Mattisse is asking, in case it is not clear, is that what is copied is not just the source itself, but the statement, supported by the source. For example, if I write "Tiananmen Square is 500 metres across [cite some book]" in Tiananmen Square, would another editor be able to copy that statement, source and all, into Tiananmen Square massacre?
My view is that this is in accordance with policy, since the statement, in its new location, is still just as supported by the source cited as it was when it was at its old location. It is only a change of location, not a substantive change to the statement.
I just find Mattisse's contention (that you can't copy a statement with its source from one article to another) a little bizzare, since it implies that:
Your help is greatly appreciated. -- PalaceGuard008 ( Talk) 00:16, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia:No original research has been unprotected after a long period due to repeated disputes. The main focus of the disagreements has centered around WP:PSTS. There have been some changes since unprotection that seem relatively uncontroversial and within consensus. [20] There are two proposed changes to the policy ( Wikipedia talk:No original research#Wikipedia:No original research#Reliable sources and Wikipedia talk:No original research#Taking the dive (PSTS proposal)). Please also be aware a variety of proposals were recently reviewed ( Wikipedia talk:No original research#Alternative proposals: straw poll.), mainly based on two approaches to the section. Further input is welcome and encouraged. Vassyana 23:11, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
I asked a question about and User:PalaceGuard008 asked a question below mine on his copying text and sources from another Wikipedia article. We disagree on what you said. He says what you said was that it is O.K. to copy text and sources and put them in a different context.
I wrote an article in which I used sources referencing ancient Chinese history. User:PalaceGuard008 copied much of the text and all the book sources and put them in his article Caisson (Asian architecture) which is mostly about a period in Chinese architecture that is much later. Further, he has incorrectly applied the book references in the context of his article. I have endlessly discussed this with him on the article talk page, his talk page and my talk page.
In the answers you gave up regarding copying sources and text from other Wikipedia articles, were you saying that his copying text and references from one Wikipedia article and putting them in a different context in Caisson (Asian architecture) is correct? I have the books and he is misusing the references.
If you agree with me that he is acting incorrectly what should I do? If I try to remove any he just reverts. I even supplied an online source that referenced a statement he was using one of the books I have for, and he reverted that also.
If you say he is right, then I will drop the issue. Thanks! -- Mattisse 01:33, 26 October 2007 (UTC)