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Whpq ( talk) 17:09, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
Duh. Thank you. But I hesitate before adding ~~~~, because even before the current pestilence I wasn't into reaching out and touching people. Oh well, your page, your rules [deep breath] Hoary ( talk) 06:03, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
Oldschool talkback. Forgot to ping you in response. — Bagumba ( talk) 09:28, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Konnichiwa Marchjuly. In deciding which user page was appropriate to discuss your edit, being mindful of WP:OWNTALK, here is best given you have not started a section on my user talk page and therefore are not watching it.
Regarding your edit of 21:03 25 June 2020 (UTC) at User talk:Explicit#Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2020 June 25, I'd like to say I appreciate your interest as it is an opportunity to discuss something important. As you infer, but is also more clearly stated at WP:CANVAS, it is perfectly acceptable to notify other editors of ongoing discussions, provided that it be done with the intent to improve the quality of the discussion by broadening participation to more fully achieve consensus.
Notification, as opposed to canvassing, is defined by WP:CANVAS as notification done with the intention of influencing the outcome of a discussion in a particular way. An invitation to contribute is therefore distinct from a recommendation to participate in a particular way (i.e. block voting, although you would be aware consensus outcomes are not based on simple numerical polling, but rather based on the quality of the contributions made in terms of their content and not on irrelevant factors such as who made them, etc).
WP:APPNOTE specifically allows for notification to be made on the user talk pages of editors who have participated in previous discussions on the same topic and/or are known for expertise. And while there may be an assumption that those who participated in a previous consensus to retain the image (now being proposed again for deletion by the same editor, on the same file, only days after), I sent invitation to more editors (noting that a wider participation may address the particular viewpoint of the repeat deletion editor, who may have felt the earlier consensus was too small a sample [although, comparatively, it wasn't, but it is about seeking to give assurance to that editor, if that was indeed the case]) who I had no expectation or indication of what view they might likely have (nor could I assume just because an editor who may supported its retention previously would maintain the same opinion, given the scope of the objection made by the original editor was widened to another ground). WP:APPNOTE would therefore be larger in scope than you have suggested (inferring that individual notification was not allowed).
As you may be aware, some noticeboards get very little traffic, especially the maintenance types ones like the one in question. This often leads to poor outcomes where participation is limited to just one or two individuals and fails to provide any real community consensus. This is why WP:APPNOTE allows for the methods of notice used, so it's not just the same clique of individuals creating some false equivalence of community consensus.
Similarly, there is nothing in WP:CAN regarding thanking those invited for participating exists (directly or indirectly), as you have inferred, so I can only interpret this to be a personal viewpoint. I would agree however it would be somewhat tacky to thank invitees selectively for contributing only if they agreed with requestor, although it would make no change to what an editor has already done. Be assured however I am thanking all who participate regardless of their choice (as it is the increase in participation that I am encouraging, not what they decide - that is a matter for them). Acknowledging the contribution and time of editors on what are often thankless maintenance tasks is inherent in WP:CIV and shouldn't really be inferred as motivated by other purposes.
However, if this personal viewpoint is something you think should be part of the guidelines, do start a RfC on the WP:CAN talk page and develop a formal consensus on it. I would certainly participate in that if you want to get the ball rolling.
Regarding your claim that I had "declared" a consensus, please be careful of straying (even if with inferred good intent) into WP:PA WP:AVOIDYOU WP:RPA (See ArbComm examples at WP:ASPERSIONS) with wording that is directed more towards an editor than their edits (using quotes inappropriately for example can come across as pejorative). Again, given the absence of guideline reference in that commentary, it appears to represent a personal viewpoint rather than community consensus. This might another area, if you are interested in developing some formal policy, to put to RfC. Again, that too is something I would be interested in participating in if you decide to do this. In good faith, once a decision was made by an uninvolved administrator (who made that decision on the consensus he determined existed), the discussion closed and it was appropriate that be reflected as otherwise it may have caused confusion (especially given this current deletion proposal is not identical to the previous, even if it is nonetheless substantially the same). The discussion close was properly referenced, visible and it was clear I was not the one who had made the decision that consensus existed for the image to be retained. I find it unlikely any confusion could possibly be caused and the action itself was purely administrative clean-up (and not objected to by the administrator).
Thank you for your belief I acted in good-faith here, although as someone who has edited Wikipedia for longer than I've had this account, I am aware of the appropriate policies and guidelines and reviewed them before making the edits in question (as all good editors should). That said, you are my first stalker encountered (learn something new everyday) - the term sounds a little adverse but as it is self adopted by this community I guess it is all good. It is always useful to have dialogue (so long as WP:5P4 is respected, which unfortunately is not always) like this as not only does it offer the opportunity to assist fellow editors but improves understanding generally of Wikipedia policy and guidelines. Domo arigatou Kangaresearch 07:36, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
2023; Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 2022; Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 2021; Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 2020; Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 2019; Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 2018; Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 2017; Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 2016: Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 2015: Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 2014: Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 2013:Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec |
Whpq ( talk) 17:09, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
Duh. Thank you. But I hesitate before adding ~~~~, because even before the current pestilence I wasn't into reaching out and touching people. Oh well, your page, your rules [deep breath] Hoary ( talk) 06:03, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
Oldschool talkback. Forgot to ping you in response. — Bagumba ( talk) 09:28, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Konnichiwa Marchjuly. In deciding which user page was appropriate to discuss your edit, being mindful of WP:OWNTALK, here is best given you have not started a section on my user talk page and therefore are not watching it.
Regarding your edit of 21:03 25 June 2020 (UTC) at User talk:Explicit#Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2020 June 25, I'd like to say I appreciate your interest as it is an opportunity to discuss something important. As you infer, but is also more clearly stated at WP:CANVAS, it is perfectly acceptable to notify other editors of ongoing discussions, provided that it be done with the intent to improve the quality of the discussion by broadening participation to more fully achieve consensus.
Notification, as opposed to canvassing, is defined by WP:CANVAS as notification done with the intention of influencing the outcome of a discussion in a particular way. An invitation to contribute is therefore distinct from a recommendation to participate in a particular way (i.e. block voting, although you would be aware consensus outcomes are not based on simple numerical polling, but rather based on the quality of the contributions made in terms of their content and not on irrelevant factors such as who made them, etc).
WP:APPNOTE specifically allows for notification to be made on the user talk pages of editors who have participated in previous discussions on the same topic and/or are known for expertise. And while there may be an assumption that those who participated in a previous consensus to retain the image (now being proposed again for deletion by the same editor, on the same file, only days after), I sent invitation to more editors (noting that a wider participation may address the particular viewpoint of the repeat deletion editor, who may have felt the earlier consensus was too small a sample [although, comparatively, it wasn't, but it is about seeking to give assurance to that editor, if that was indeed the case]) who I had no expectation or indication of what view they might likely have (nor could I assume just because an editor who may supported its retention previously would maintain the same opinion, given the scope of the objection made by the original editor was widened to another ground). WP:APPNOTE would therefore be larger in scope than you have suggested (inferring that individual notification was not allowed).
As you may be aware, some noticeboards get very little traffic, especially the maintenance types ones like the one in question. This often leads to poor outcomes where participation is limited to just one or two individuals and fails to provide any real community consensus. This is why WP:APPNOTE allows for the methods of notice used, so it's not just the same clique of individuals creating some false equivalence of community consensus.
Similarly, there is nothing in WP:CAN regarding thanking those invited for participating exists (directly or indirectly), as you have inferred, so I can only interpret this to be a personal viewpoint. I would agree however it would be somewhat tacky to thank invitees selectively for contributing only if they agreed with requestor, although it would make no change to what an editor has already done. Be assured however I am thanking all who participate regardless of their choice (as it is the increase in participation that I am encouraging, not what they decide - that is a matter for them). Acknowledging the contribution and time of editors on what are often thankless maintenance tasks is inherent in WP:CIV and shouldn't really be inferred as motivated by other purposes.
However, if this personal viewpoint is something you think should be part of the guidelines, do start a RfC on the WP:CAN talk page and develop a formal consensus on it. I would certainly participate in that if you want to get the ball rolling.
Regarding your claim that I had "declared" a consensus, please be careful of straying (even if with inferred good intent) into WP:PA WP:AVOIDYOU WP:RPA (See ArbComm examples at WP:ASPERSIONS) with wording that is directed more towards an editor than their edits (using quotes inappropriately for example can come across as pejorative). Again, given the absence of guideline reference in that commentary, it appears to represent a personal viewpoint rather than community consensus. This might another area, if you are interested in developing some formal policy, to put to RfC. Again, that too is something I would be interested in participating in if you decide to do this. In good faith, once a decision was made by an uninvolved administrator (who made that decision on the consensus he determined existed), the discussion closed and it was appropriate that be reflected as otherwise it may have caused confusion (especially given this current deletion proposal is not identical to the previous, even if it is nonetheless substantially the same). The discussion close was properly referenced, visible and it was clear I was not the one who had made the decision that consensus existed for the image to be retained. I find it unlikely any confusion could possibly be caused and the action itself was purely administrative clean-up (and not objected to by the administrator).
Thank you for your belief I acted in good-faith here, although as someone who has edited Wikipedia for longer than I've had this account, I am aware of the appropriate policies and guidelines and reviewed them before making the edits in question (as all good editors should). That said, you are my first stalker encountered (learn something new everyday) - the term sounds a little adverse but as it is self adopted by this community I guess it is all good. It is always useful to have dialogue (so long as WP:5P4 is respected, which unfortunately is not always) like this as not only does it offer the opportunity to assist fellow editors but improves understanding generally of Wikipedia policy and guidelines. Domo arigatou Kangaresearch 07:36, 26 June 2020 (UTC)