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Initiated by Aquillion at 06:03, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
Mass killings under Communist regimes has been fully-protected for the past six years following an WP:AE request here. Putting aside the fact that full protection for content disputes is intended for a "cooling down" period and that indefinite full protection is not, I think, actually an available option for dealing with content disputes, most of the comments there (where there was relatively little discussion for such a drastic step) seem to support full protection for the period of one year - it has now been six. Nearly everyone involved in the dispute has long ago moved on, and while it's reasonable to assume that the topic and article will still be controversial, our dispute-resolution mechanisms have improved dramatically since 2011 - it seems silly to suggest that this article, alone, is so controversial that it needs to remain fully protected until the end of time. Anyway, I'm requesting that the restrictions on this article, including full protection, be removed. -- Aquillion ( talk) 06:03, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
Oh, as an additional (and possibly more important) point, I would suggest looking at Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Discretionary_sanctions#Page_restrictions and placing some sort of limit on the length a page can be full-protected under WP:AE without explicit authorization from ArbCom - while an admin's authority in executing WP:AE is necessarily broad, I don't believe that protecting a page for six years as a means of resolving a content dispute was intended to be something one administrator could decide to do on their own, even there. If it is intended to be an available option, we need to update WP:PP to say so; but I find it hard to believe there would be consensus for that. -- Aquillion ( talk) 06:20, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
I was briefly involved on that page post-protection, and I found that trying to build talk page consensus without the ability to edit the article was enormously difficult even for a minor point. The page does not meet our current standards for neutrality and due weight. There are good sources on the topic, that need to be accurately represented, rather than the hotchpotch that exists at the moment; but there is no realistic way to fix this. It's been long enough that I think Arbcom should consider lifting the protection. If the very idea is making some people go "Oh, heck no" then keep some restrictions to prevent the previous problems from recurring; a 1RR restriction + EC protection should do the trick. Vanamonde ( talk) 07:16, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
Keep the status quo. Looking at the page history [1], the current mechanism appears to be working, the article is being improved. If Vanamonde finds it difficult to build talk page consensus under the current mechanism, then it certainly won't get easier to build consensus if the restrictions are removed. -- Nug ( talk) 08:38, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
I'm uninvolved but wearily familiar with the Digwuren case, and would argue squarely in favor of keeping the status quo; if anything, this enforced take-it-to-the-talk-page is a remedy Wikipedia should be using more often, not less. If trying to build talk page consensus without the ability to edit the article was enormously difficult
, that's a sign that the remedy is working. If the protection is lifted, it needs to be on the understanding that the moment the usual suspects on both sides re-start edit-warring, either the protection will be re-imposed or that edit-warring will be dealt with by means of long-term blocks. ‑
Iridescent 08:50, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
I don't have an opinion about the specific page mentioned, but I do want to comment on the suggestion to "look at [...] placing some sort of limit on the length a page can be full-protected under WP:AE without explicit authorization from ArbCom".
AE blocks are limited in duration to 1 year, but occasionally situation warranting an indefinite block crop up at AE. Wheat happens in these cases is that an indefinite block is placed, but the restrictions on modifying an AE action last only for one year, meaning a single admin may unblock on their own countenance after that point. If there is a problem with long protections resulting from an AE action that are not being reduced or removed due to bureaucracy despite their being a rough consensus that protection is no longer required, then a similar 1-year limit to AE protections would seem to be the simplest resolution. I do not know whether this is actually a problem, I have not looked, but the comments above this one suggest that if the problem does exist this article is not an example of it. Thryduulf ( talk) 14:05, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
Keep the status quo. The article used to be a regular battleground, and the fact is that "competing articles" of worse quality were the result of the compromises made. The concept that the prior discussions are now invalid is, I fear, quite the wrong way to go. Also note that some of the prior battlers are now looking here to find a means of deleting this article while not deleting Anti-communist mass killings and other articles which are far weaker than this one. A clear case where SQA is the best result. And allowing the editors who propose on the talk page that we simply delete the article without revisiting the prior discussions here would basically make a mockery of the past solution. Note that both "quick order deletion discussions" in 2010 resulted in clear Keep results. Collect ( talk) 14:50, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
Lockings are of course undesirable, but I do not feel experienced enough with this procedure to have any meaningful opinion on how it should be administered. But ...
I support removal of full protection, but then I opposed it being imposed at the time. I also support replacing it with Extended confirmed protection and 1RR for now, as suggested by Vanamonde93. I disagree with Aquillion that the disruptive editors have moved on to other things (some of them have just changed their usernames), but I don't see that as a reason to retain full protection. Full protection of the article may actually be shielding them from consequences by freeing them from having to disrupt progress on the article via reverts and edits to the article. Allowing editing may help expose those editors by giving them enough rope to hang themselves. Alternatively, it would allow them to edit productively if they chose to do so. If anything, the full protection has given disruptive editors effective veto power through the imposed edit-consensus process and some of the good-faith editors have moved on. AmateurEditor ( talk) 01:43, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
I'm one of the admins who was active at AE back in 2011 when the decision was taken to apply indefinite protection to Mass killings under Communist regimes. The filer of this ARCA, User:Aquillion, has not stated that they tried any other of the prior steps suggested under WP:AC/DS#Appeals and modifications before filing here:
The administrator who closed the AE and applied the full protection is User:Timotheus Canens has been recently active, and should be easy to consult. The concept that it is shocking to keep an article protected this long probably reflects unawareness of the nastiness of some of the areas that are still under discretionary sanctions. In my opinion the Mass killings article easily falls under the 'gigantic waste of time for everyone' category though some well-intentioned content editors who were very diplomatic might be able to rescue it. In part the trouble is that some people consider this an artificial topic. We have other articles on mass deaths whose existence as an article is not questioned. For example, the article on World War II casualties is about a real topic and few people would criticize the title.
In terms of actual improvements carried out during the full protection, the history indicates there were at least 23 changes made (by admins) since 1 January 2013 in response to edit requests. For another opinion on what to do (if anything), see User talk:TheTimesAreAChanging#Mass killings under Communist regimes. TTAAC is one of the people who made content improvements to a draft that was kept open during the protection.
My opinion is that this article is hard to improve, not due to full protection, but due to the difficulty in finding agreement among editors. Lifting the protection would fix one problem but not the other. Instead of stasis and very slow progress, we might have constant thrashing at ANI and AE and some article bans being handed out to individuals. But then again I could be wrong. EdJohnston ( talk) 19:06, 28 August 2017 (UTC) EdJohnston ( talk) 19:06, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
The protection was placed following the AE thread Ed linked to because it was necessary to enforce the "consensus required" restriction previously placed on the page (by Sandstein). I see that some commenters seem to think - incorrectly - that the two are one and the same.
I don't have time to review the past several years' worth of history right now, so I express no view on whether Sandstein's restriction is still needed. However, as long as that restriction remains, I'm strongly opposed to lifting the full protection, which adds only minimal inconvenience over the restriction, and, based on previous experience, is essential to its consistent enforcement. T. Canens ( talk) 04:35, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
I was the admin who some years back added a "consensus required" page restriction as a discretionary sanction to this article. I've not followed the article for a long time and I don't know whether the restriction is still required. I don't mind another admin or the ArbCom modifying or removing the restriction as they deem appropriate. I likewise don't have an opinion as to whether the page protection at issue here is (still) appropriate. In general terms, I find it preferable to sanction individual edit-warriors rather than to lock down a page for everybody, but I must assume that the editing conditions were at some time bad enough that T. Canens and I considered it necessary to impose page-level restrictions. Sandstein 12:24, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
"Shine a light, and the roaches will run." Support removing the full protection and replacing it with extended confirmed protection and 1RR. Even one year is over-long for full protection. The solution to bad apples mucking up a page is to fish out the bad apples, not to make the page mostly unusable. It's already under DS, so dealing with long-term problematic editors in the topic will be comparatively easy and swift. The problem of the article being effectively frozen in a poor state and very difficult to improve is real. To the extent the topic may be artificial, that's a content matter and not an ArbCom issue. It is fixable by splitting (e.g. mass killings by the Soviet Union, by the PRC, etc., are certainly valid topics, since they proceeded from specific governments' policies, without any WP:SYNTH in play). No opinion on the bureaucracy questions about AE limits, auto-expirations, etc. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 06:26, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information.
On the topic of having a limit to the amount of time page protections (and other sanctions on pages) can be placed I'm not convinced that's a good way forward. Firstly, blocks are more contentious and have a great affect on people than other sanctions and are, generally, more difficult to lift. Secondly, administrators aren't authorised to impose some page sanctions (such as, 1RR and 'consensus required') allowed by discretionary sanctions so having them expire after a year would mean that they expire (not that it changes to allow any admin to remove them). I'd also imagine that the imposing admin, AE admins and editors at AN would be very willing to amend/lift page restrictions which have been in place for long periods of time (especially when compared to blocks). Callanecc ( talk • contribs • logs) 10:52, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Initiated by SMcCandlish at 02:46, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
Leaving behind the notifications and warnings in the "Enforcement log" sections of old case pages, while moving sanctions and all other log actions out of them into the new log pages, has an intensely prejudicial effect against those whose usernames remain in the original case pages' log sections. It gives a strong false impression that: there was a dispute, then those specific users still listed there got warnings, and thus the dispute stopped, because those were the real and only troublemakers. The exact opposite is usually the truth, with most of these cases having a sadly "rich" history of far worse problems and sanctions (often from the case itself, plus years of follow-on disruption) that no one sees unless they go looking in the newer log pages, which the average editor doesn't even know about.
From the original decision's discussion I'll quote the following material about the logging of actual sanctions, because it applies far more strongly to pointless retention of high-profile logging of mere notices and warnings for years on end:
[I]f an editor who is not indefinitely blocked is still around in five+ years, there is a good chance the sanction isn't useful anymore, and if by chance it is, it could be re-imposed. Also, "may be blanked" should be replaced with "shall be blanked" ... The may language is too open-ended, it'll be blanked if someone (who?) feels like it? Courcelles 18:11, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
Also:
... [The change] is long overdue and will help the committee, the clerks, and the broader community keep track of what areas are under active DS, where there are current problems, etc. Beeblebrox (talk) 18:33, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
... [I]t will make it much easier to pick up problematic editors who move from one controversial topic to the next as they accumulate sanctions. HJ Mitchell
These goals are not served in any way by retaining misleading "scarlet letters" from 2 May 2014 and earlier on the case pages to unfairly target particular editors who were not actually subject to sanctions. "You will be maligned forever because of a random date boundary" is just utterly arbitrary, in the particular, vernacular sense that WP:Arbitration is never supposed to be.
I was previously informed (over a year ago) that these items had not been moved into the log pages (or just removed), simply because a clerk had not gotten around to it. Today, moving them was turned down [2] on the basis that the above-cited motion explicitly excludes that material from being moved. Thus this amendment request. We really are in "it'll be blanked if someone (who?) feels like it?" territory now, exactly as Courcelles warned.
Since DS alerts are only valid for a year, there's no point at all in retaining alert notices in the logs (on the case pages or the log pages) for longer, even if ArbCom wanted to retain actual warnings in the log (which is not presently done). From my talk page today:
The courtesy blanking of more than five-year-old DSLOGs already hides old bans from the search engine, even those that are still in effect. EdJohnston ( talk) 02:15, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
So, let's just be really clear about this: People who are still being disruptive are getting a form of courtesy and good-faith relief that is denied to those who are not, for no reason but a meaningless dateline.
Some of the intent-and-effects issues that were not resolved in the original motion weren't resolved at that time simply because of a desire to avoid making decisions "on the hoof" or "too quickly". Two-and-a-half years is plenty long enough.
PS: I have not listed any of the "affected users" as parties, despite the instructions in the amendment request template, because that would be tedious, a long list, and likely have a canvassing effect – there would surely be unanimous agreement from them that they don't want to be scapegoated for life over wrist-slaps that happened years ago. [I have, however, linked the usernames of the admins and [ex-]arbs directly quoted, which should ping them when I save this.]
—
SMcCandlish ☺
☏
¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 02:46, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Initiated by Hijiri88 at 21:45, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
I would like to appeal this topic ban. I have been on my best behaviour since the ban was put in place, and have never violated it. I deeply regret my actions, including edit-warring and threats, that led to the original decision, and believe I have sufficiently reformed and made amends. I have also been doing my best to create content proactively despite the fact that the TBAN covered most of the topics I have a sufficient knowledge to edit in.
I have written a fair few articles on classical Chinese literature (see here and especially here). The problem is that writing on these topics is much more difficult for me than writing on classical Japanese poetry, which I studied in college and have access to an abundance of materials on, and can even visit and take photos of relevant historical sites associated with the poets (not something I could do without at least a week's vacation and air fare for poets from China). Also, last year during Asian Month I worked very hard to get just five articles on Chinese poets out over the course of the month, but the previous year (not during Asian Month) I had comfortably created 13 decent articles on Japanese poets in a single day. (None of these articles had anything to do with the Arbitration case, nor did the vast majority of my earlier contributions to Japanese culture articles.) And even though my French is not what it used to be, I have access to sources and am generally aware of the topic area, so that I found it easier to write articles on Japanese topics for fr.wiki than articles on pretty much anything else on en.wiki. [3] One of them was even drafted in English.
I really love writing articles for Wikipedia, and I would really love to go back to editing articles in my main area of expertise. And I promise that I will not engage in the kind of behaviour that led to the 2015 Arbitration case again.
Hijiri 88 ( 聖 やや) 21:45, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
"all pages relating to Japanese culture" was drastically overbroad from the beginning, and Catflap has since been indeffed. If this restriction was ever really preventative, it has long since ceased to be so, and now only prevents Hijiri from making his most useful contributions. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 09:11, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
Hijiri's originally problem was excessive page argument, justified somewhat by the fact that many of the pages he (and I)edited were worked by ill-informed trolls - several of whom are no longer with us - who appeared incapable of understanding the cultures, something of which Hijiri cannot be accused. He is a very useful Asian-pages editor, with close attention for high quality sourcing, something somewhat rare. He has in the meantime given evidence that he is producing good work on the areas outside his ban. I see no reason why his ban should not be revoked. All that is needed is a reminder not to get caught up in arguments: make one's point, adduce sources, and exercise patience. Nishidani ( talk) 11:42, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
Since I have been active in WP:CHINA and WP:JAPAN, I am an admirer of the content creation by Hijiri88 in East Asian topics. It can be a very contentious field with only very few experienced editors dealing with users pushing for WP:NPOV agenda. I can understand the frustration that led to the problematic behaviour. My recent interactions with the editor have been mostly positive, with only small remnants of the excessive/emotional arguments that was the scope of the original ban. After two years of relatively constructive editing, I am very supportive of lifting at least the topic ban on pages relating to Japanese culture at this time. Alex Shih Talk 13:53, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
I disagree Hijiri has been on their best behaviour in the last year. I recall receiving some insults (which I let go in an ignore PAs logic), possibly a late reaction to me closing one of the numerous Japan-related ANIs Hijiri was involved in. Will look up the diffs if needed, but have no time right now. If modified, the remedy should rather be broadened to various sorts of obstructive behaviour, and certainly not rescinded. -- Francis Schonken ( talk) 14:23, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
@Opabinia (and others): was working on it. Let me first state clearly that as far as I'm concerned Hijiri doesn't deserve all that much editor time (including mine). The editor has created and contributed to time sinks ad libitum. I'd like that to stop. Which was the gist of my ANI thread close I alluded to above (and regarding which current arbitrator Drmies accused me at the time of not being severe enough against Hijiri and the editor with whom Hijiri was having a dispute then). After which Hijiri popped up at ANI again, and again, and again, absorbing quite a lot of editor time (their own and that of others, at ANI and elsewhere) that could have been spent much more productively elsewhere. So allow me to be as brief as possible.
Here's what I propose: originally Hijiri couldn't appeal to an ArbCom remedy before a year had passed. Maybe amend that provision to read that Hijiri can not appeal an ArbCom remedy before having stayed out of trouble for the period of a year. "Staying out of trouble" being defined as: no new sanctions levied against them, whether they be community-imposed sanctions or ArbCom sanctions. Maybe apart from "staying out of trouble" defined thus, also a restriction on Hijiri initiating new ANI postings about editors with whom they're involved in a dispute. Something like an "automatic boomerang" every time Hijiri plays that trick might be considered. Note that that directly connects to what I wrote in the closure of the ANI thread I closed a long time ago (and which I mentioned in my OP). -- Francis Schonken ( talk) 08:56, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
Every time I'm confronted with the fact that Hijiri is subject to a topic ban, I'm surprised anew. I've noted him to be a bit tenacious (note that's " tenacious", not " tendentious") on talk pages, but only in situations where another editor was (deliberately or not) engaging in behavior that might justifiably be called "infuriating". In all, I've found Hijiri to be a damned good editor. I've worked with Hijiri in the past, and even butted heads with Hijiri in the past, and never encountered any behavior which I would consider to be indicative of someone who might benefit from a TBAN. Furthermore, Hijiri clearly has a great grasp of Japanese language and culture (a minor interest of mine; I don't claim any great expertise, but I can certainly recognize expertise) and would be a great boon to those pages. In the interest of improving the project, the best thing we could do with this TBAN is end it. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 00:20, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
Concur with the above (aside from Francis Schonken on some stuff, covered below). I encounter Hijiri88 regularly, and the editor is not at all disruptive or otherwise problematic on Asian culture topics or elsewhere, in my experience. What happened over Japanese poetry was a momentary blip, and even if some restriction were kept, it should be sharply narrowed to address the specifics of the case, not "Japanese culture" generally. I find it hard to credit that Hijiri88 would be disruptive in that topic area, going forward. The lesson appears to have been learned, and there's no evidence Hijiri88 is habitually intemperate or obsessive.
Francis's concerns seem very localized to a couple of specific disputes (about which I'll take his word), plus a distaste for Hijiri's ANI activities. The former seem like a personal dispute that's pretty old news at this point, though it is within the year. Two diffs don't really seem to establish much of a pattern, though. I don't spend enough time at ANI to have much of a pro or con view on Hijiri's entries there; almost everything at ANI that isn't addressing a WP:NOTHERE troll, vandal or COI matter seems like a waste of time to me, so it's difficult to conceptualize a scale of deplorable through fantastic behavior or style there. I do have to question the idea of banning an editor from one of the prescribed dispute resolution forums/methods. Anyway, I encounter Hijiri88 through normal content editing, and policy discussions, and their input has been constructive in my encounters, though occasionally emotional, as with many of us. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 09:10, 18 September 2017 (UTC) Updated to account for Francis's later materials. 00:36, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information.
Remedy 4 (Hijiri88: Topic ban (II)) of the Catflap08 and Hijiri88 arbitration case is suspended for a period of six months. During the period of suspension, this restriction may be reinstated by any uninvolved administrator as an arbitration enforcement action should Hijiri88 fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process in the area defined in the topic ban remedy. After six months from the date this motion is enacted, if the restriction has not been reinstated or any reinstatements have been successfully appealed, the restriction will automatically lapse.
Enacted - Mini apolis 22:57, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Initiated by Fæ at 15:14, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
The case Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Sexology was over four years ago. The committee seems overdue to revisit these topics of discretionary sanctions as they lump various modern, appropriate, and non-controversial LGBT+ articles with topics of "abnormal sexual desires". The template that is being used on recent articles of wide interest like Danica Roem, offensively lumps articles about trans people and trans issues with hebephilia. As I would hope Arbcom is sensitive to the difference between gender and sex, Arbcom's own rulings must make that difference clear, in order to avoid unintended downstream outcomes, like the template text "The Arbitration Committee has authorized uninvolved administrators to impose discretionary sanctions on users who edit pages related to transgender issues and paraphilia classification (e.g. hebephilia), including this article" which makes it seem that Arbcom and the Wikipedia community does not understand there is a difference between transgender and paraphilia topics in terms of controversy.
In the four years since the Sexology case, the Wikimedia project landscape and community understanding of LGBT+ topics has changed a lot. For example we now have a well established Wikimedia LGBT+ user group, who may be approached for suggestions if Arbcom would be helped by an independent user group view, Wikimedia has officially funded diversity events and LGBT+ editathons, Wikipedia policies have head-on tackled respectful treatment of trans related articles and biographies, and the quality and variety of LGBT+ related articles has significantly expanded to the public benefit.
I request that Arbcom formally recommend that the current implementation of the Sexology case (2013) is revised so that LGBT+ related articles are treated with respect and sensitivity, even if discretionary sanctions are in place and a template is needed. Further, and possibly within a longer timeframe, I request that Arbcom now review the evidence for Sexology case section 4.1 " Standard discretionary sanctions are authorized for all pages dealing with transgender issues and paraphilia classification (e.g., hebephilia)" and if the evidence demonstrates that there is no reason to believe the topic of "transgender" is a battleground, to remove the topic of transgender, until a further case with recent evidence of this being a locus of persistent disruption is brought to the committee and a separate ruling may be made.
I confirm I have an interest in the Wikimedia LGBT+ user group as an active participant and at various times have represented LGBT+ interests at Wikimedia conferences, but this does not represent a conflict of interest and neither was I a party or participant in the case. -- Fæ ( talk) 15:14, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
Addendum WRT evidence - After writing this request, it was only after Newyorkbrad's comment that I realized that the Manning case was relevant. The statement in the Manning case added to the Sexology DS with "For the avoidance of doubt, these discretionary sanctions apply to any dispute regarding the proper article title, pronoun usage, or other manner of referring to any individual known to be or self-identifying as transgender, including but not limited to Chelsea/Bradley Manning." As a previous administrator I never enforced a DS, and so not thought to check the Arbcom enforcement log. The log shows that there have been three enforcements of the Sexology DS. All were related to the Chelsea Manning article discussions and the article move, and all are over four years ago. In Wikipedia terms, four years with no enforcement is a very long time, especially when the single locus of disruption requiring enforcement was one article, not transgender or paraphilia articles more generally. There is no evidence apart from opinion, that the Sexology DS have been effective or necessary on any articles apart from Chelsea Manning in the last four years, or that use of the {{ controversial}} would not be as effective to minimize disruptive behaviour, as history appears to show for paraphilia articles. -- Fæ ( talk) 12:24, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
{{
controversial}}
sufficient.Alternative solution proposed: A different template. Either a) a general sexology DS template that doesn't get into specifics, or b) separate templates for paraphilias, for LGBTQI issues, and for sexology as a discipline, to forestall any further dispute and offense caused by them all being lumped together. They were correctly lumped in dealing with disruption about them, as having a similar base cause and nature, but they're not properly correlated in any other way.
Oppose the proposed original solution, because the TG-related articles are still subject to a lot of problematic editing, and the DS should remain. This requester's proposal would throw the dispute reduction baby out with the bad template wording bathwater.
—
SMcCandlish
☏
¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 18:10, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
I agree with SMcCandlish's suggestion to split out three DS templates. It seems to me that that would fix the very annoying issue at hand without requiring substantive changes to the original case. -- SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:57, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
I agree that transgender issues should not be lumped in with paraphilia issues in a DS notice. However, I feel strongly that transgender-related articles should remain under discretionary sanctions. I witness disruption on these articles constantly. Therefore I would support a separate DS notice specific to trans issues. Funcrunch ( talk) 21:24, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
As Fae mentioned above, gender and sexual preference are independent. Wouldn't it make sense to separate transgender templates from lesbian/gay/bisexual templates? Would a sexuality template and a gender template fix these issues? -- DHeyward ( talk) 13:29, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
I was the editor who initially alerted WikiProject LGBT studies about this issue.
I'm not really convinced by the argument that it would be too much work by as claimed by Callanecc. From what I can tell, these are all the articles with this tag:
|topic=pa
for reasons unknown to me.Note that none of these articles are about "paraphilia classification (e.g. hebephilia)"; aside from Kerik, all of these articles are about transgender individuals or topics.
None of the other "areas of conflict" are about such disjoint topics, so this one stands out. And even if you clarify that the topics are "clear it applies to both areas independently", there's no way to prevent it from affecting connotations and building on harmful stereotypes.
Umimmak ( talk) 09:14, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
pa
to something else if this is done to make it less opaque. (I remain neutral as to whether to remove or just rewrite.)I think the best way forwards here is a two-step process. Step one being to replace the current DS authorisation and associated templates with ones covering the three separate areas which collectively cover the same scope as at present. If any topics fall into multiple areas then they can simply be noted as being covered by all that apply and any sanctions necessary can be applied under whichever is more appropriate to the individual circumstances (there is precedent for this - a few years ago the Operation Flavius article was covered by both The Troubles and Gibraltar DS areas, I placed a sanction under the former as that was most relevant to the specific disruption). If there is any disagreement about which of the three topic areas a given page/category should be in then this should be taken to an appropriate noticeboard or wikiproject talk page, with placing it in multiple categories being an option.
Step two is an optional review of whether the DS topics are still required, and a request to the Committee if removal is desired. This should wait until after the migration is complete and any discussions about categorisation have concluded and should examine the topic areas individually as the answer is not necessarily going to be the same for all of them.
This should eliminate the problems initially noted while not throwing out any babies with bathwater. Thryduulf ( talk) 14:20, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
pa
code into two distinct codes, one for transgender issues and one for paraphilia issues? I think this could be done as a clerk actions without a need to modify the underlying sanction.
GoldenRing (
talk) 16:55, 8 November 2017 (UTC)I think people might be reading a bit too much into the two topics being conflated in this remedy. It's not the Committee (then, now or future) making any comment that the issues are equated with each other. Instead, it's the Committee (then) identifying, in the Sexology case, that these two topic areas were/are contentious and that both came up in the same case.
Having said that, I'm minded to remove these discretionary sanctions completely given that the last time discretionary sanctions have been used was three and a half years ago (and that was reinstating a TBAN which had expired). Before that, in 2013, they were only used in relation to the Manning dispute. Callanecc ( talk • contribs • logs) 07:39, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
Remedy 4.1 ("Discretionary sanctions") of the Sexology case is amended to read:
Any sanctions or other restrictions imposed under the previous wording of this remedy to date shall remain in force unaffected.
Remedy 4.1 ("Discretionary sanctions") of the Sexology case is rescinded. Any sanctions or other restrictions imposed under this remedy to date shall remain in force unaffected.
Enacted - Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 23:39, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Initiated by Nyttend at 14:55, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
Per WP:IPBLENGTH, IPs should almost never be indef-blocked. I found these two IPs at Wikipedia:Database reports/Indefinitely blocked IPs: 190.140.234.59 was blocked in 2008 for evading a ban placed at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Stefanomencarelli (the underlying account is no longer blocked), and 2003:51:4A44:E240:213:E8FF:FEED:36FB was apparently attempting to distribute child pornography when blocked in 2014. Unless you believe that these two are likely to warrant re-blocking, could they be unblocked? No point in notifying them ("hello IP, are you still going to be disruptive?"), but I'll notify the admins who blocked them. Please note that this not a complaint about anyone; I would have asked the blocking admins and not come here, but I know that an admin shouldn't revert an arbitration block even if he placed the block himself.
PS, would the Committee please direct one of the checkusers to tell us what IPs, or IP ranges, are being used by the bots operating on WMF Labs? Back when we had the Toolserver, {{ Toolserver IP}} told us to indef-softblock the Toolserver IPs (bots often edited logged out), and that's likely no longer needed. I filed a quick SPI request for the IPs in question, but inexplicably this request was treated like a privacy-violating request for checkuser on a human, not a request for technical assistance with the WMF servers.
It's worth noting that Stefanomencarelli is no longer banned, so the indefinite block on 190.140.234.59 isn't even relevant anymore. That one can certainly be unblocked. The admin which blocked it, Rlandmann, is active. He can revert his own AE action. ~ Rob13 Talk 19:44, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Initiated by Kingsindian at 10:34, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
[To clarify, I have included The Wordsmith as a party because they have in the past acted as a steward for Coffee's administrative actions.]
I am not sure this is the right venue, but I think it is. I am here seeking a relatively narrow amendment. The situation is as follows:
In May 2016, Coffee created a template (linked above) which is used on more than 100 pages dealing with American politics. The template includes a "consensus required" provision: challenged material should not be restored unless it has consensus.
FWIW, I only placed the article under 1RR/consensus required because that was what came packaged in 2016 US Election AE [template]; it wasn't so much an explicit decision to make it consensus required.
I propose that the template to be used as the "default" for post-1932 American elections contain the amendment I proposed. The amendment is modeled on the solution used in ARBPIA, and takes care of a very common justification for the "consensus required" provision (see TonyBallioni's comment linked above, for instance). This is a much more lightweight, well-tested and clearer sanction. To be clear: individual pages may still have the "consensus required" provision placed on them. In this way, collateral damage from what I consider a bad provision will be minimized. If ArbCom wishes to make an explicit statement either way (either rescinding the consensus required provision altogether, or to affirm it to be the "default"), they can also do so.
The above text is self-sufficient. In the following, I make a case for the badness of the "consensus required" provision. People can skip it if they want.
My argument hinges on two points. First, consensus on Wikipedia is mostly silent and implicit; indeed this is explicitly enshrined in policy. Second, any bureaucratic provision must prove its worth if it is to be imposed. I will now expand on each of the points.
Click here to file a request for amendment of an arbitration decision or procedure (including an arbitration enforcement sanction issued by an administrator, such as through discretionary sanctions).Did I read them wrongly? By the way, this has already been discussed on AE, and the discussion didn't go anywhere. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 11:24, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
In general, I will wait for a few more comments from Arbs; if they feel that AE is the best venue, I'll withdraw this and refile there. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 17:05, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
I agree that this should be at WP:AE. ~ Rob13 Talk 11:09, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
The main problem here appears to be that the template containing the "consensus required" provision is the only one available for administrators to use for ARBAP2 sanctions. However, there is no decision by ArbCom mandating the use of the "consensus required" provision or that template. @ Kingsindian: Would it resolve your request if I created an ARBAP2 talk notice template that did not include the "consensus required" provision? (Perhaps this template could also have "If an edit is reverted by another editor, its original author may not restore it within 24 hours of the revert.") That way, administrators could still make the conscious choice to choose to use that provision on a case-by-case basis, but documentation should note that the other template is also available. Thanks, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 14:13, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Initiated by Opabinia regalis at 05:34, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
Δ (formerly Betacommand) was banned in the Betacommand 3 case, which closed in February 2012. The decision contained a provision under which he would develop a plan for editing as part of his appeal, and the committee would offer this plan for community review. This ARCA should be considered the community review component of the remedy. The text of Δ's appeal is as follows:
As I have stated previously I have made mistakes in the past (CIVIL, socking) I would like to put these behind me and move on and make progress for the future. The proposal for unblock is:
I have previously outlined a limited editing plan, beyond that I really cannot commit to much more since I already have a lot of stuff on my real world plate. ΔT The only constant 00:43, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
Comments are invited from the community on whether this appeal should be granted and what, if any, restrictions or modifications to the proposed restrictions should be considered. Community members may wish to review the following recent discussions: the "Public Appeal" section on Δ's talk page and this advisory RfC. It is not necessary to repeat details of posts made to the RfC. (Note that Δ has been unblocked to participate in this ARCA only.) Opabinia regalis ( talk) 05:34, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
I am going to keep my responses to the point since this section will probably get fairly large.
@
Alanscottwalker: I have outlined ~6 month editing plan, I don't have my notes handy but I will dig out the details for you.
ΔT The only constant 22:46, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
@ Alanscottwalker: My planned activities are fairly limited at this point to minor gnoming (fixing issues that I come across), refreshing myself with the culture and policy shifts since I was active. Documenting and addressing issues with the tools currently on the toolforge (aka WMF labs). Examples of future edits: I will be fixing issues like [5] where google is listed as a publisher when in reality it is University of Manitoba Press, [6] cases where reflists have too few/many columns, and similar gnomish stuff. ΔT The only constant 01:21, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
@ Masem: I purposely avoided the term simi-automatic because I don't want to get into what is and isn't a "pattern" of edits. I also wanted to have specific, definable rules. In the past claims about simi-auto/pattern edits have left me at a he said/she said argument because the only way to defend against those claims is to have a camera over my shoulder recording my screen as I make every edit. By limiting the wording to automated we set a clearly definable and clear line. If we wanted to specifically call out dis-allowing AWB, that wouldn't be an issue. ΔT The only constant 22:46, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
The above Appeal speaks of a previously outlined "limited editing plan", would the committee or clerk please explicitly append that to the above Appeal, for clarity sake? -- Alanscottwalker ( talk) 10:51, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
I oppose this unbanning. Although seemingly not mentioned here, Werieth ( talk · contribs) was another highly active sock in 2013–2014. I encountered them then, and found them so problematic just of themself that it went to ANI. It soon became obvious that they were also a Betacommand sock. A variety of ANI ructions ensued, [7], User_talk:Andy_Dingley/Archive_5#FYI, User talk:Arnhem 96, User_talk:Andy_Dingley/Archive_5#Can_we_get_a_few_things_straight.3F et al. This ended with me blocked for refusing to accept Werieth as a gf editor (I thought they warranted indef blocking for their own attitude, let alone the obvious socking), and a group of admins who clearly supported Betacommand so much that they were happy to proceed on this basis. My blocking admin sought an indef block of me and described me later as 'I consider you to be de facto banned'. When Werieth was finally blocked as a sock it still took appreciable time before I was most begrudgingly unblocked as the issue was now 'moot' (i.e. they'd still been right to block me), rather than any sort of apology for actually having been right all along.
There is no discussion in this unban request of Betacommand's support amongst this handful of admins. If they were blocking other editors to support him when he was blocked, what are they going to get up to if he's restored?
I also question the GF of an unban request that can't even acknowledge their past socks.
Betacommand is too toxic an editor to be let back. There is no evidence that they have changed their behaviour. Andy Dingley ( talk) 12:33, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
The plan is sound, curtails the past problematic behaviour, and my interactions with Betacommand/Δ in the past years have all been very positive and productive. Give him the WP:ROPE, he'll be under plenty of scrutiny from the community. It's a rather easy thing to re-block if he misbehaves again. Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 12:44, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
Oppose unban, for all reasons outlined at the advisory RfC recently, and for this unsatisfactory unban plan. "I have made mistakes in the past (CIVIL, socking)" And, umm, the actual reasons you were banned in the first place? The problems didn't arise out of the socking or out of incivility, it was the actual editing that was too often the problem. Plus what Andy Dingley said; an unban plan should at least list the socks, not just some vague "I have socked" statement. Fram ( talk) 12:56, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
Those of us who lived through the years of ongoing drama caused by Beta won't soon forget the turmoil they caused. No person is completely irredeemable, but the worse the editor was, the more they flipped off the community, the higher the bar is for their return, and I cannot think of many banned editors for whom the bar is higher than it is for Beta. I think we would require much more in the way of assurances and protective restrictions then are provided for here to allow Beta to even dip his toe into editing again. Further, the idea that an unblock plan which includes Beta's being allowed to use bots (even delayed for 6 months) is one that will pass community muster is totally unrealistic, considering it was bot editing that was at the root of Beta's problems. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 20:28, 17 November 2017 (UTC)Betacommand is too toxic an editor to be let back. There is no evidence that they have changed their behaviour.
Support the unblock request, though I would also suggest the plan include the use of semi-automated tools (AWB, etc.) among the six-month ban on bot use. Beta's identified the two big areas that caused the problems in the past - NFC enforcement, and bot tools. Nearly all the problems related to behavior was related how editors confronted Beta about these actions and Beta's inappropriate responses. Keep Beta out of NFC and automated editing and that takes away 90% of the problem. The rest has to deal about editors with grudges against Beta (which can be seen above already), and we should expect that Beta should be civil in face of hostility (though taking cues from how the current sanctions regarding interactions for TheRamblingMan should be taken, so that editors are not purposely taunting Beta into mis-action). -- MASEM ( t) 20:35, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
I support the unblock request and I would support Masem's restrictions as well. I am sure that if you unblock, there will be editors with sharp eyes ready to pounce if there is a CIVIL or NPA or BOT violation. As such, I think the risk to the encyclopedia is manageable versus the potential. Sir Joseph (talk) 20:45, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
I know Arbcom say they don't want material from the RFC being repeated here, but I'm going to regardless: I don't believe he even understands why he was so disruptive, let alone any kind of indication that he won't go back to his old habits at the first chance
. Why are we even entertaining an unblock request when he's lying in the unblock request about why he was blocked? The absolute minimum I'd be willing to accept to even consider shifting my position from "keep banned forever" is a total and permanent (no "after six months" or anything else of the sort) ban on automation, anything to do with copyright and anything to do with deletion, and even then I'd be reluctant. Wikipedia's willingness to give second chances is laudable; when it comes to a sixteenth chance (or whatever we're up to now) for someone who every single time they're given another "final chance" immediately goes back to what they were doing before, less so.
I'd like to refer to a longer comment I wrote to Arbcom in 2011 about codependency, which is still completely relevant. The cause of the editing restrictions, arbitration case, and ban was not violations of CIVIL nor the use of sockpuppets (although those are also issues). The cause was the inappropriate use of automated edits over a period of years, often related to NFC, and a refusal to change or stop those edits in light of repeated feedback.
Nothing in the wording of the appeal suggests that a different pattern would emerge if Δ were allowed to return to editing. Indeed, I don't see any strong reason why he should be allowed to return.
However, if there is a desire for yet another chance, it should involve a complete recusal from all aspects of NFC on wiki (no discussing NFC in any on-wiki forum, including his talk page, no assisting with others who do NFC maintenance - a complete recusal). And there should be a complete recusal from all bot-related activity for the indefinite future, with no schedule for ever becoming a bot operator. The appeal as written is an appeal to continue the cycle of codependency which was only finally broken by a complete ban from the wiki. Nevertheless, if the ban is lifted, I fear that we will again see Δ either ignore or game his restrictions, rather than to take them to heart and avoid any possible appearance of breaking them. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 21:14, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
Per the above two comments. To be more explicit about Andy Dingley's comment above, Betacommand has been overtly and covertly protected/supported by members of the admin corps. Even if he did return, at some point he will cause problems, and then editors like Dingley will end up paying the price again. I cant see a future where his coming back ends well for anyone. Only in death does duty end ( talk) 22:03, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
I don't believe I was on or atleast around when all of this occurred or ended however looking through the various cases I have to agree with Andy "Betacommand is too toxic an editor to be let back. There is no evidence that they have changed their behaviour.", I'm all for second chances and they may well be a reformed character however judging by the amount of crap they caused I honestly don't see any net positive in unbanning them, However as I said I wasn't all that around so I don't know as much as those above but from my reading of it all I don't see any positives in unbanning them, Thanks, – Davey2010 Talk 23:15, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
This was an enormously problematic editor. The way to minimize problems is to minimize enormously problematic editors. There are plenty of other Wiki projects for them to volunteer at, they don't need to be here. Carrite ( talk) 23:35, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
Per Iridescent and Andy Dingley, the whole circumstance is such I can't support. I can understand why some might feel Beta is getting special handling here, and it does look that way to me. No unblock statement should be accepted that doesn't first acknowledge the original and ongoing reasons it has been kept in place. This just has the odor of backroom discussions to me. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 13:35, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
I'm not seeing here where Δ is actually addressing the issues which they were banned for in Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Betacommand 3. Specifically - they willfully violated the terms of their community imposed sanctions. They "often performed tasks without approval from the community", "often saved edits without reviewing them for problems", and "often performed tasks at edit-rates exceeding four edits per minute in any ten minute period of time". To be fair, this appeal does mention the incivility problems, but it doesn't really address how Δ plans to improve that issue. The other three problems are not addressed at all. I'm not seeing any explicit recognition that they tried to deceive the community with the Werieth account. And allowing them to participate in NFCC discussions is just plain insane. As for the possibility of running a bot account - no. Just no. It would take years to get the community trust back enough to allow them automated editing. And I'm not seeing how this appeal is actually any improvement on gaining the trust back, given the problems that are swept under the rug that I've listed above.
And these are just the problems with this appeal from the third and final ArbCom case, it doesn't even begin to delve into the problems ignored from the community ban discussions (for both Δ and Werieth) as well as the two earlier ArbCom cases. (And as a freaking aside - why in HADES do we allow user accounts with symbols? It's a royal pain in the ass to have to either type the unicode, type the wild keyboard equivalent, or copy-paste some character just to be polite and address the user by their current account "name". I wonder if Δ's use of the symbol is not some unconscious "finger in the eye" to the community as well...)
And Δ's own statements above do not help the matter. "For those who want a complete topic ban for both NFC and bot related areas, I see that as overly broad. The issues in the past have been with NFC enforcement edits, not the discussions. Similar point can be made in regards to bots, issues where with the mass editing not the discussions." Uh, no. There WERE problems with the discussion style - see the findings of fact 2.2 from Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Betacommand 3. Yes, I do think a "broad" topic ban as a good idea. Yes, I think it should be permanent. Δ - you still do not see how out of touch your ideas of your own editing is with community norms. Until you can learn to listen to what the community is telling you, you will keep having issues. Learn to edit without bots or automation. Learn to accept the fact that your own self-evaluation is not how the community sees your editing and that you need to change how you behave. All I see from this set of suggestions is that you want to return to editing the way you were before you were banned. That isnt' going to fly with the community and you need to internalize and accept that before you have a hope of re-earning the community's trust.
No comment on the unblock request.
I request that the Committee rescind remedy 3 of the Betacommand case, and permit Δ to submit future unblock requests per the usual community processes as generally defined in the banning policy. The remedy as stated shrouds the process behind the veil of Arbcom, which can make it seem to the community that the Committee is failing to respond to unblock requests when in fact none was submitted, and which led very recently to an embarrassing circus of an RfC featuring a number of long-tenured and well-respected members of the community behaving like petulant children. That should not be allowed to happen again. Ivanvector ( Talk/ Edits) 22:01, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
@ Alanscottwalker: I realize that. Still, Arbcom should not be creating situations like this where ban appeals from some users have to be submitted in some prescribed format which differs from policy and varies from case to case: it creates unnecessary confusion and leads to the sort of conflict we saw a month or so ago. There is precedent for Arbcom doing whatever it feels appropriate in any situation, which has left a long history of various users being banned with a whole spectrum of different and sometimes unusual conditions; I made a list in the RfC to illustrate that problem. In this case in particular, the condition that Arbcom has to green-light an appeal before it goes to the community anyway just seems like unnecessary red tape: it's ultimately up to the community anyway. Arbcom should either lift the ban or not, or else step away and leave this for the community to deal with, and I don't see any reason in this case why the community is incapable of doing so. Arbitrators are supposed to be, well, arbitrators, not prison wardens. Ivanvector ( Talk/ Edits) 16:21, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
@ Alanscottwalker: you're right about all that, except for the "not up to the community" part. Remedy 3 states, in part: The Committee shall present this plan to the community for review and comment prior to any modification of Betacommand's ban. I read this as indication that the Committee intends not to act without the community's endorsement, thus this is an arbitration ban in name only, and functionally a community ban. If it's not up to the community, then what is this ARCA? Ivanvector ( Talk/ Edits) 16:58, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
@ Euryalus and Opabinia regalis: I appreciate you taking the time to comment. I do think it would be a good idea for the Committee to establish something like a "standard provision" for arbitration bans, which simply refers to the appeal process in the banning policy (including revising that policy, if necessary). Ideally this would also allow for revisions to those processes to apply retroactively (say if we brought back BASC, or something) so that we don't have "old" cases like this one hanging on to an outdated process. Adding extra language about community input (or about whatever) breeds the sort of confusion evident here: did Δ submit an appeal? did it meet the prescribed format? what is the prescribed format? et cetera. I don't really see any reason why all arbitration bans and appeals can't be handled through a common process, I suppose excepting cases involving private info, but even in those cases the Committee has always been pretty good with transparency within appropriate limits. Ivanvector ( Talk/ Edits) 14:20, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
I edit-conflicted with Ivanvector, who said it better than I did and with whom I concur completely (other than I lean toward favoring some kind of loosening of the restrictions, per WP:ROPE – perhaps a provisional unban with a prohibition against automated and maybe semi-automated edits), so I won't re-state essentially the same stuff in other wording. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 22:28, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
I don't believe that unblocking with restrictions would be appropriate. If I remember rightly (and based on what others have said), most of Betacommand's blocks have arisen from restrictions that were imposed on him. Whether he's persistently violated those restrictions, or whether his opponents have persistently gotten rid of him through specious complaints, I can't say (I've not looked into it at all), but permitting Betacommand to edit with restrictions virtually guarantees that we're going to have yet more disputes over his editing restrictions. If he can be trusted to edit properly, drop the restrictions; if he can't be trusted to edit properly, leave him banned. Nyttend backup ( talk) 00:45, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
This editor has been blocked for many years - a punishment that exceeds the crime. He means well, has continued to he helpful, and I've got enough AGF to believe people can grow in maturity and wisdom in 5 years. Legacypac ( talk) 02:11, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
I read a lot of material going back years which refreshed my memory and I strongly oppose allowing this person to return to editing. I have many reasons but one sticks in my mind. This person blatantly and flagrantly lied to the community about their Werieth socking. Had they told the truth when asked, Andy Dingley would not have been blocked. I see not a shred of contrition and I can never trust a person who lies like that without a detailed acknowledgement of past misconduct and a sincere pledge to avoid all past problem areas. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 03:38, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
Editor (A) demonstrably cannot be trusted, and (B) is highly toxic and disruptive. Under no circumstances should ArbCom unban the editor. If the editor still insists on somehow appealing the ban, if push comes to shove it should only be put to the community at large. But ideally the request should just be shut down. No matter how much good an editor may have done at their best, if the mountain of evidence proves they are by far a net negative and cannot be trusted, the answer has got to be no, for the sake of the encyclopedia and for the sake of the community and its individual editors. Softlavender ( talk) 06:22, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
I believe in the possibility of people changing as much as anyone; i also, however, find it hard to believe that, in the absence of evidence, this editor has changed. Legacypac has it wrong: This block is not a punishment, but a way of preventing further turmoil and damage; there is no reason to believe that that turmoil will not continue if Betacommand is unblocked. Andy Dingley says it succinctly and best: A toxic editor should not be allowed here ~ at least until he shows some signs of understanding and accepting the behaviour that led him here; the misleading, at best, request is not such a sign. Happy days, Lindsay Hello 10:59, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
The unblock request shows no recognition of, contrition for, nor promise to avoid repeating some of the most problematic behaviors that ended with this block, including both abuse of automation and deception leading to the unfair block and almost-ban of another productive editor. Unless these issues are addressed I think an unblock is premature. — David Eppstein ( talk) 21:47, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
There seems to be here only what I can term as a conspiracy theory. The notion that there is some cabal of admins have misused their position of trust to protect this user. This should be ignored in regards to whether to unban him or not. If this is true then a separate case at the appropriate location should be opened to review the facts pertaining to these admins actions and where applicable remove them from this position of trust.
I don't find it unreasonable to ask Δ to further address their actions beyond a generic comment such as I have made mistakes in the past (CIVIL, socking). In addition some of the addendum's suggested such as as the prohibition of using certain specialized semi-automated tools like AWB that provided any bot like behavior that would allow him to do any disruptive action is a similar nature o their prior bot related disruption. I have to say no at this time without the above.
In principle I can support unbanning this user. In the end they can always be banned again. This is from 2012. I question what it would take from those who have said no to unban his user? -Serialjoepsycho- ( talk) 22:33, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
Having refreshed my memory about why Δ was banned, I firmly oppose unblocking based on the current plan. As others have also noted, there is no acknowledgement of the relatively recent socking, no list of socks, no acknowledgement of the disruption caused, no acknowledgement about the fundamental reasons for that behaviour, no demonstration of how they have changed and how they will avoid causing further disruption, and no reason why he should be trusted this time after betraying that trust so many times previously. Thryduulf ( talk) 00:04, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
The remedy in Betacommand 3 requires Betacommand not only submit a "plan outlining his intended editing activity", but that he should also "demonstrat[e] his understanding of and intention to refrain from the actions which resulted in his ban". It appears that Betacommand is supposed to demonstrate this in the context of presenting the plan to the community.
Like the others, I'm not wowed by Betacommand's compliance with this latter portion, though I somewhat understand why it is so brief. I believe the intent of this ARCA is to submit the plan outlining intended editing activity so it can be fairly evaluated separately from concerns as to how repentant Betacommand is. Dealing with it all at once would likely result in almost no focus on the intended editing activity. As this discussion has progressed, it's clear that had Betacommand focused more on the conduct that resulted in his ban, we would not be talking at all about the plan.
From my perspective, I think this is a decent enough plan, though I would agree with others who say semi-automated editing as with AWB should be off the table along with fully automated editing. And of course, Betacommand should comply with the portion of the Betacommand 3 remedy requiring him to "demonstrat[e] his understanding of and intention to refrain from the actions which resulted in his ban". —/ Mendaliv/ 2¢/ Δ's/ 00:11, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
I'm generally against usernames which can't be typed on a standard English-language keyboard on English Wikipedia. In the case of a user who has caused a significant amount of trouble in the past (in fact, this user has his own section of WP:AN as a centralized location for discussions about him), I believe that changing his username should be an absolute requirement. If the user is willing to do this, I would support allowing the user to re-enter the Wikipedia community gradually - and the proposed restrictions (including specific semi-automated tools, such as AWB) look like a good start.
Simply put no.
I urge anyone who is inclined to give Betacommand another (4th, 5th?) chance please read:
As the arb who wrote the first of these decisions, and who has been an interested observer of the subsequent two, based on my intimate knowledge of Betacopmmand’s past actions, I can say with confidence that granting this request would be an extremely bad idea.
I see no evidence (certainly not in this request) that Betacommand understands what the problems are, nor do I believe, that Betacommand has the ability to understand them. Betacommand’s one-size-fits-all approach, and predilection for bot-aided-mass-edits is inherently problematic. Betacommand’s inability to communicate, would only compound the inevitable problems such edits entail.
Paul August ☎ 16:38, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
No.
This is clearly just another attempt by Beta to return to abusive bot usage.
And on another note, someone needs to force rename his account to something that isn't completely impossible to type on mobile. Jtrainor ( talk) 13:55, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
Oddly, I think the pitchforks and torches above are actually the best reason to unblock - simply put, Beta would be watched like a hawk by dozens of editors keen to see him banned again. I see that as a no-lose situation, frankly. Black Kite (talk) 14:03, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
I would support this unblock request - it's been 3+ years since the last socking, significantly longer since the original block, and we all change. If this is just a ploy or attempt to game the system, that'll be quickly identified and I see no shortage of people willing, if not eager, to pull the trigger. PGWG ( talk) 18:03, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
Please do not add more bot drama to the encyclopedia. Most editors simply do not care about bots or bot policy. If I am aware of a bot issue it is a sign that something has gone very badly wrong because I think along with Wikidata, it is the most boring area on Wikipedia and do my absolute best to stay away from it. We have the editor who is known for running the most controversial bot in Wikipedia's history. Do we really think that they are not going to try to get involved with bot policy and do we really think that their involvement there will be a net-positive to the encyclopedia, even if they don't run a bot themselves? Please save us the drama of more automation conflict. I strongly oppose this unban. TonyBallioni ( talk) 05:03, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
We absolutely should unban Δ. It was a net loss to the community to ban him from the get go, and he's been blocked for far more than a sufficient time (per Legacypac). FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY [u+1F602] 17:58, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
Quite a few of the comments in opposition to the unbanning of Δ are bordering on or, if not, outright personal attacks. We get it: Δ is banned and quite a few people don't like him but neither of those are a free pass to insult him and malign his character. I don't care if he allegedly caused "years of disruption" - Δ is still a human being and last I checked, no personal attacks is still a policy. Commenting on his actions is absolutely valid criticism but to continually refer to him as "toxic" and to call him other names isn't acceptable.
And please, please, *please* call him Δ. To continually refer to someone by a name they have long since abandoned is offensive and disrespectful; again, a person being unpopular is not a free pass to be disrespectful to them. It doesn't matter if his name can't easily be typed - there's such a thing as cut and paste or you can use "Delta". Acalamari 12:23, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
No, please don't unblock Beta. The RFC clearly indicates community opinion. -- Begoon 12:37, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
I actually believe that Δ means to be constructive if allowed to return, but from what I see there is still a lack of understanding there about how they got into trouble in the first place. The first step to avoid repeating your mistakes is to understand them. I'm not seeing a deep enough understanding there on the part of Δ to stop themselves from getting into difficulty again. I do not recommend an unblock at this time.
If allowed back under some form of restricted access, I think it is imperative that we put forward a condition that any blocks of Δ (or whatever account they end up using) should only be appealable to Arbcom, rather than to the drama boards. The whole situation with them in the past was dragged out for far longer than it needed to be due to a small group of admins who were happy to cover for them and drag the drama out for as long as possible. Such a condition would prevent a re-run of those unfortunate events, while still giving Δ some protection against heavy handed blocks for minor infractions. Lankiveil ( speak to me) 03:52, 27 November 2017 (UTC).
Definitely unban. It has been long enough. -- Dirk Beetstra T C 07:53, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Initiated by Huldra at 23:17, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:
Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
How is the above statement: "Each editor is limited to one revert per page per 24 hours on any page that could be reasonably construed as being related to the Arab-Israeli conflict. If an edit is reverted by another editor, its original author may not restore it within 24 hours" to be interpreted?
I have discussed it with User:Opabinia regalis and User:Callanecc at some length here.
There are presently 2 different interpretations, lets call them Version 1 and Version 2:
I can live with either version (both are an improvement on what we had), I just need to know which one is the correct interpretation. Huldra ( talk) 23:17, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
I support Callanecc's interpretation that "the original author may not restore it within 24 hours after the other user's revert." These restrictions are designed to encourage broader talk page discussion leading to consensus, and slowing down article space reversions serves that goal. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 05:21, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
Only version 2 is logically feasible. Example of why: I make an edit at 00:01. No one notices it until 23:59, and they revert it. Two minutes later, at 00:02, more than 24 hours has passed under version 1, so I'd be free to re-revert. Not cool, and not the intent. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 06:35, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should opine whether and how the Committee should clarify or amend the decision or provide additional information.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Initiated by Hijiri88 at 23:50, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
Sorry to bring this up in the "lame duck" session (I don't mind waiting until the new year before anyone notices this), but I would like to appeal my "Nichiren Buddhism" ban, similarly to how I appealed my "Japanese culture" ban in September.
I have no desire to specifically go back and edit the articles that were at the center of my dispute with Catflap08, most of which centered around 20th-century nationalistic Nichirenism and the poet Miyazawa Kenji, with Nichiren Buddhism actually being somewhat peripheral to most of my edits to the latter -- hence, presumably, why "and its adherents" was included in the wording of the ban. The reason I am appealing is that I don't want to look over my shoulder every time I edit an article on someone not specifically known for being an adherent of Nichiren Buddhism to see if they may have been associated with it. Some examples:
I'd be happy to see the ban suspended for six months, during which time it could be reinstated by any uninvolved admin, rather than an immediate full repeal, similar to the previous appeal.
Hijiri 88 ( 聖 やや) 23:50, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
No opinion on the matter at hand, but this is to inform the Committee that I have procedurally closed an ANI request in which it was alleged that John Carter violated a topic ban by commenting in this thread. I assume that if any action with respect to this is needed, it is up to the Committee to take such action, considering that the conduct at issue occurred in this arbitration forum. If I erred in that assumption, an indication that this alleged topic ban violation can be examined in other fora such as WP:AE would be welcome. Sandstein 00:00, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
I'd support the committee granting this request. I've been the admin he has been working with on the copyright issue, and I've found him nothing but reasonable there. If this is how he interacts with editors with whom he disagrees or comes into conflict with, I think Wikipedia would be well served to suspend this TBAN. TonyBallioni ( talk) 00:09, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
I'm here to support Hijiri (so I won't be watching this page, ping me if you need my attention). I've never seen him be anything but reasonable when it comes to content discussions, even when we disagree. I don't believe that any sort of topical editing restriction on Hijiri could accomplish anything beneficial. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 01:58, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
Since I have supported the previous amendment request ( [12]) and have worked with Hijiri88 on several occasions, I am recusing myself and submitting this statement instead. I would also support granting this request, as I personally believe this ban no longer serves any purpose, based on the rationale I have stated back in September. Alex Shih ( talk) 05:32, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information.
This procedure does not prohibit normal administrative actions to enforce Wikipedia policies and guidelines, such as a block for personal attacks or sockpuppetry."). Thanks, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 01:17, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
Remedy 3 (Hijiri88: Topic ban (I)) of the Catflap08 and Hijiri88 arbitration case is suspended for a period of six months. During the period of suspension, this restriction may be reinstated by any uninvolved administrator, as an arbitration enforcement action, should Hijiri88 fail to adhere to any normal editorial process or expectations in the area defined in the topic ban remedy. After six months from the date this motion is enacted, if the restriction has not been reinstated or any reinstatements have been successfully appealed to the Arbitration Committee, the restriction will automatically lapse.
Enacted - Kostas20142 ( talk) 11:52, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
This is an archive of past Clarification and Amendment requests. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to file a new clarification or amendment request, you should follow the instructions at the top of this page. |
Archive 95 | Archive 96 | Archive 97 | Archive 98 | Archive 99 | Archive 100 | → | Archive 105 |
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Initiated by Aquillion at 06:03, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
Mass killings under Communist regimes has been fully-protected for the past six years following an WP:AE request here. Putting aside the fact that full protection for content disputes is intended for a "cooling down" period and that indefinite full protection is not, I think, actually an available option for dealing with content disputes, most of the comments there (where there was relatively little discussion for such a drastic step) seem to support full protection for the period of one year - it has now been six. Nearly everyone involved in the dispute has long ago moved on, and while it's reasonable to assume that the topic and article will still be controversial, our dispute-resolution mechanisms have improved dramatically since 2011 - it seems silly to suggest that this article, alone, is so controversial that it needs to remain fully protected until the end of time. Anyway, I'm requesting that the restrictions on this article, including full protection, be removed. -- Aquillion ( talk) 06:03, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
Oh, as an additional (and possibly more important) point, I would suggest looking at Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Discretionary_sanctions#Page_restrictions and placing some sort of limit on the length a page can be full-protected under WP:AE without explicit authorization from ArbCom - while an admin's authority in executing WP:AE is necessarily broad, I don't believe that protecting a page for six years as a means of resolving a content dispute was intended to be something one administrator could decide to do on their own, even there. If it is intended to be an available option, we need to update WP:PP to say so; but I find it hard to believe there would be consensus for that. -- Aquillion ( talk) 06:20, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
I was briefly involved on that page post-protection, and I found that trying to build talk page consensus without the ability to edit the article was enormously difficult even for a minor point. The page does not meet our current standards for neutrality and due weight. There are good sources on the topic, that need to be accurately represented, rather than the hotchpotch that exists at the moment; but there is no realistic way to fix this. It's been long enough that I think Arbcom should consider lifting the protection. If the very idea is making some people go "Oh, heck no" then keep some restrictions to prevent the previous problems from recurring; a 1RR restriction + EC protection should do the trick. Vanamonde ( talk) 07:16, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
Keep the status quo. Looking at the page history [1], the current mechanism appears to be working, the article is being improved. If Vanamonde finds it difficult to build talk page consensus under the current mechanism, then it certainly won't get easier to build consensus if the restrictions are removed. -- Nug ( talk) 08:38, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
I'm uninvolved but wearily familiar with the Digwuren case, and would argue squarely in favor of keeping the status quo; if anything, this enforced take-it-to-the-talk-page is a remedy Wikipedia should be using more often, not less. If trying to build talk page consensus without the ability to edit the article was enormously difficult
, that's a sign that the remedy is working. If the protection is lifted, it needs to be on the understanding that the moment the usual suspects on both sides re-start edit-warring, either the protection will be re-imposed or that edit-warring will be dealt with by means of long-term blocks. ‑
Iridescent 08:50, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
I don't have an opinion about the specific page mentioned, but I do want to comment on the suggestion to "look at [...] placing some sort of limit on the length a page can be full-protected under WP:AE without explicit authorization from ArbCom".
AE blocks are limited in duration to 1 year, but occasionally situation warranting an indefinite block crop up at AE. Wheat happens in these cases is that an indefinite block is placed, but the restrictions on modifying an AE action last only for one year, meaning a single admin may unblock on their own countenance after that point. If there is a problem with long protections resulting from an AE action that are not being reduced or removed due to bureaucracy despite their being a rough consensus that protection is no longer required, then a similar 1-year limit to AE protections would seem to be the simplest resolution. I do not know whether this is actually a problem, I have not looked, but the comments above this one suggest that if the problem does exist this article is not an example of it. Thryduulf ( talk) 14:05, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
Keep the status quo. The article used to be a regular battleground, and the fact is that "competing articles" of worse quality were the result of the compromises made. The concept that the prior discussions are now invalid is, I fear, quite the wrong way to go. Also note that some of the prior battlers are now looking here to find a means of deleting this article while not deleting Anti-communist mass killings and other articles which are far weaker than this one. A clear case where SQA is the best result. And allowing the editors who propose on the talk page that we simply delete the article without revisiting the prior discussions here would basically make a mockery of the past solution. Note that both "quick order deletion discussions" in 2010 resulted in clear Keep results. Collect ( talk) 14:50, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
Lockings are of course undesirable, but I do not feel experienced enough with this procedure to have any meaningful opinion on how it should be administered. But ...
I support removal of full protection, but then I opposed it being imposed at the time. I also support replacing it with Extended confirmed protection and 1RR for now, as suggested by Vanamonde93. I disagree with Aquillion that the disruptive editors have moved on to other things (some of them have just changed their usernames), but I don't see that as a reason to retain full protection. Full protection of the article may actually be shielding them from consequences by freeing them from having to disrupt progress on the article via reverts and edits to the article. Allowing editing may help expose those editors by giving them enough rope to hang themselves. Alternatively, it would allow them to edit productively if they chose to do so. If anything, the full protection has given disruptive editors effective veto power through the imposed edit-consensus process and some of the good-faith editors have moved on. AmateurEditor ( talk) 01:43, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
I'm one of the admins who was active at AE back in 2011 when the decision was taken to apply indefinite protection to Mass killings under Communist regimes. The filer of this ARCA, User:Aquillion, has not stated that they tried any other of the prior steps suggested under WP:AC/DS#Appeals and modifications before filing here:
The administrator who closed the AE and applied the full protection is User:Timotheus Canens has been recently active, and should be easy to consult. The concept that it is shocking to keep an article protected this long probably reflects unawareness of the nastiness of some of the areas that are still under discretionary sanctions. In my opinion the Mass killings article easily falls under the 'gigantic waste of time for everyone' category though some well-intentioned content editors who were very diplomatic might be able to rescue it. In part the trouble is that some people consider this an artificial topic. We have other articles on mass deaths whose existence as an article is not questioned. For example, the article on World War II casualties is about a real topic and few people would criticize the title.
In terms of actual improvements carried out during the full protection, the history indicates there were at least 23 changes made (by admins) since 1 January 2013 in response to edit requests. For another opinion on what to do (if anything), see User talk:TheTimesAreAChanging#Mass killings under Communist regimes. TTAAC is one of the people who made content improvements to a draft that was kept open during the protection.
My opinion is that this article is hard to improve, not due to full protection, but due to the difficulty in finding agreement among editors. Lifting the protection would fix one problem but not the other. Instead of stasis and very slow progress, we might have constant thrashing at ANI and AE and some article bans being handed out to individuals. But then again I could be wrong. EdJohnston ( talk) 19:06, 28 August 2017 (UTC) EdJohnston ( talk) 19:06, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
The protection was placed following the AE thread Ed linked to because it was necessary to enforce the "consensus required" restriction previously placed on the page (by Sandstein). I see that some commenters seem to think - incorrectly - that the two are one and the same.
I don't have time to review the past several years' worth of history right now, so I express no view on whether Sandstein's restriction is still needed. However, as long as that restriction remains, I'm strongly opposed to lifting the full protection, which adds only minimal inconvenience over the restriction, and, based on previous experience, is essential to its consistent enforcement. T. Canens ( talk) 04:35, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
I was the admin who some years back added a "consensus required" page restriction as a discretionary sanction to this article. I've not followed the article for a long time and I don't know whether the restriction is still required. I don't mind another admin or the ArbCom modifying or removing the restriction as they deem appropriate. I likewise don't have an opinion as to whether the page protection at issue here is (still) appropriate. In general terms, I find it preferable to sanction individual edit-warriors rather than to lock down a page for everybody, but I must assume that the editing conditions were at some time bad enough that T. Canens and I considered it necessary to impose page-level restrictions. Sandstein 12:24, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
"Shine a light, and the roaches will run." Support removing the full protection and replacing it with extended confirmed protection and 1RR. Even one year is over-long for full protection. The solution to bad apples mucking up a page is to fish out the bad apples, not to make the page mostly unusable. It's already under DS, so dealing with long-term problematic editors in the topic will be comparatively easy and swift. The problem of the article being effectively frozen in a poor state and very difficult to improve is real. To the extent the topic may be artificial, that's a content matter and not an ArbCom issue. It is fixable by splitting (e.g. mass killings by the Soviet Union, by the PRC, etc., are certainly valid topics, since they proceeded from specific governments' policies, without any WP:SYNTH in play). No opinion on the bureaucracy questions about AE limits, auto-expirations, etc. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 06:26, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information.
On the topic of having a limit to the amount of time page protections (and other sanctions on pages) can be placed I'm not convinced that's a good way forward. Firstly, blocks are more contentious and have a great affect on people than other sanctions and are, generally, more difficult to lift. Secondly, administrators aren't authorised to impose some page sanctions (such as, 1RR and 'consensus required') allowed by discretionary sanctions so having them expire after a year would mean that they expire (not that it changes to allow any admin to remove them). I'd also imagine that the imposing admin, AE admins and editors at AN would be very willing to amend/lift page restrictions which have been in place for long periods of time (especially when compared to blocks). Callanecc ( talk • contribs • logs) 10:52, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Initiated by SMcCandlish at 02:46, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
Leaving behind the notifications and warnings in the "Enforcement log" sections of old case pages, while moving sanctions and all other log actions out of them into the new log pages, has an intensely prejudicial effect against those whose usernames remain in the original case pages' log sections. It gives a strong false impression that: there was a dispute, then those specific users still listed there got warnings, and thus the dispute stopped, because those were the real and only troublemakers. The exact opposite is usually the truth, with most of these cases having a sadly "rich" history of far worse problems and sanctions (often from the case itself, plus years of follow-on disruption) that no one sees unless they go looking in the newer log pages, which the average editor doesn't even know about.
From the original decision's discussion I'll quote the following material about the logging of actual sanctions, because it applies far more strongly to pointless retention of high-profile logging of mere notices and warnings for years on end:
[I]f an editor who is not indefinitely blocked is still around in five+ years, there is a good chance the sanction isn't useful anymore, and if by chance it is, it could be re-imposed. Also, "may be blanked" should be replaced with "shall be blanked" ... The may language is too open-ended, it'll be blanked if someone (who?) feels like it? Courcelles 18:11, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
Also:
... [The change] is long overdue and will help the committee, the clerks, and the broader community keep track of what areas are under active DS, where there are current problems, etc. Beeblebrox (talk) 18:33, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
... [I]t will make it much easier to pick up problematic editors who move from one controversial topic to the next as they accumulate sanctions. HJ Mitchell
These goals are not served in any way by retaining misleading "scarlet letters" from 2 May 2014 and earlier on the case pages to unfairly target particular editors who were not actually subject to sanctions. "You will be maligned forever because of a random date boundary" is just utterly arbitrary, in the particular, vernacular sense that WP:Arbitration is never supposed to be.
I was previously informed (over a year ago) that these items had not been moved into the log pages (or just removed), simply because a clerk had not gotten around to it. Today, moving them was turned down [2] on the basis that the above-cited motion explicitly excludes that material from being moved. Thus this amendment request. We really are in "it'll be blanked if someone (who?) feels like it?" territory now, exactly as Courcelles warned.
Since DS alerts are only valid for a year, there's no point at all in retaining alert notices in the logs (on the case pages or the log pages) for longer, even if ArbCom wanted to retain actual warnings in the log (which is not presently done). From my talk page today:
The courtesy blanking of more than five-year-old DSLOGs already hides old bans from the search engine, even those that are still in effect. EdJohnston ( talk) 02:15, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
So, let's just be really clear about this: People who are still being disruptive are getting a form of courtesy and good-faith relief that is denied to those who are not, for no reason but a meaningless dateline.
Some of the intent-and-effects issues that were not resolved in the original motion weren't resolved at that time simply because of a desire to avoid making decisions "on the hoof" or "too quickly". Two-and-a-half years is plenty long enough.
PS: I have not listed any of the "affected users" as parties, despite the instructions in the amendment request template, because that would be tedious, a long list, and likely have a canvassing effect – there would surely be unanimous agreement from them that they don't want to be scapegoated for life over wrist-slaps that happened years ago. [I have, however, linked the usernames of the admins and [ex-]arbs directly quoted, which should ping them when I save this.]
—
SMcCandlish ☺
☏
¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 02:46, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Initiated by Hijiri88 at 21:45, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
I would like to appeal this topic ban. I have been on my best behaviour since the ban was put in place, and have never violated it. I deeply regret my actions, including edit-warring and threats, that led to the original decision, and believe I have sufficiently reformed and made amends. I have also been doing my best to create content proactively despite the fact that the TBAN covered most of the topics I have a sufficient knowledge to edit in.
I have written a fair few articles on classical Chinese literature (see here and especially here). The problem is that writing on these topics is much more difficult for me than writing on classical Japanese poetry, which I studied in college and have access to an abundance of materials on, and can even visit and take photos of relevant historical sites associated with the poets (not something I could do without at least a week's vacation and air fare for poets from China). Also, last year during Asian Month I worked very hard to get just five articles on Chinese poets out over the course of the month, but the previous year (not during Asian Month) I had comfortably created 13 decent articles on Japanese poets in a single day. (None of these articles had anything to do with the Arbitration case, nor did the vast majority of my earlier contributions to Japanese culture articles.) And even though my French is not what it used to be, I have access to sources and am generally aware of the topic area, so that I found it easier to write articles on Japanese topics for fr.wiki than articles on pretty much anything else on en.wiki. [3] One of them was even drafted in English.
I really love writing articles for Wikipedia, and I would really love to go back to editing articles in my main area of expertise. And I promise that I will not engage in the kind of behaviour that led to the 2015 Arbitration case again.
Hijiri 88 ( 聖 やや) 21:45, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
"all pages relating to Japanese culture" was drastically overbroad from the beginning, and Catflap has since been indeffed. If this restriction was ever really preventative, it has long since ceased to be so, and now only prevents Hijiri from making his most useful contributions. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 09:11, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
Hijiri's originally problem was excessive page argument, justified somewhat by the fact that many of the pages he (and I)edited were worked by ill-informed trolls - several of whom are no longer with us - who appeared incapable of understanding the cultures, something of which Hijiri cannot be accused. He is a very useful Asian-pages editor, with close attention for high quality sourcing, something somewhat rare. He has in the meantime given evidence that he is producing good work on the areas outside his ban. I see no reason why his ban should not be revoked. All that is needed is a reminder not to get caught up in arguments: make one's point, adduce sources, and exercise patience. Nishidani ( talk) 11:42, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
Since I have been active in WP:CHINA and WP:JAPAN, I am an admirer of the content creation by Hijiri88 in East Asian topics. It can be a very contentious field with only very few experienced editors dealing with users pushing for WP:NPOV agenda. I can understand the frustration that led to the problematic behaviour. My recent interactions with the editor have been mostly positive, with only small remnants of the excessive/emotional arguments that was the scope of the original ban. After two years of relatively constructive editing, I am very supportive of lifting at least the topic ban on pages relating to Japanese culture at this time. Alex Shih Talk 13:53, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
I disagree Hijiri has been on their best behaviour in the last year. I recall receiving some insults (which I let go in an ignore PAs logic), possibly a late reaction to me closing one of the numerous Japan-related ANIs Hijiri was involved in. Will look up the diffs if needed, but have no time right now. If modified, the remedy should rather be broadened to various sorts of obstructive behaviour, and certainly not rescinded. -- Francis Schonken ( talk) 14:23, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
@Opabinia (and others): was working on it. Let me first state clearly that as far as I'm concerned Hijiri doesn't deserve all that much editor time (including mine). The editor has created and contributed to time sinks ad libitum. I'd like that to stop. Which was the gist of my ANI thread close I alluded to above (and regarding which current arbitrator Drmies accused me at the time of not being severe enough against Hijiri and the editor with whom Hijiri was having a dispute then). After which Hijiri popped up at ANI again, and again, and again, absorbing quite a lot of editor time (their own and that of others, at ANI and elsewhere) that could have been spent much more productively elsewhere. So allow me to be as brief as possible.
Here's what I propose: originally Hijiri couldn't appeal to an ArbCom remedy before a year had passed. Maybe amend that provision to read that Hijiri can not appeal an ArbCom remedy before having stayed out of trouble for the period of a year. "Staying out of trouble" being defined as: no new sanctions levied against them, whether they be community-imposed sanctions or ArbCom sanctions. Maybe apart from "staying out of trouble" defined thus, also a restriction on Hijiri initiating new ANI postings about editors with whom they're involved in a dispute. Something like an "automatic boomerang" every time Hijiri plays that trick might be considered. Note that that directly connects to what I wrote in the closure of the ANI thread I closed a long time ago (and which I mentioned in my OP). -- Francis Schonken ( talk) 08:56, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
Every time I'm confronted with the fact that Hijiri is subject to a topic ban, I'm surprised anew. I've noted him to be a bit tenacious (note that's " tenacious", not " tendentious") on talk pages, but only in situations where another editor was (deliberately or not) engaging in behavior that might justifiably be called "infuriating". In all, I've found Hijiri to be a damned good editor. I've worked with Hijiri in the past, and even butted heads with Hijiri in the past, and never encountered any behavior which I would consider to be indicative of someone who might benefit from a TBAN. Furthermore, Hijiri clearly has a great grasp of Japanese language and culture (a minor interest of mine; I don't claim any great expertise, but I can certainly recognize expertise) and would be a great boon to those pages. In the interest of improving the project, the best thing we could do with this TBAN is end it. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 00:20, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
Concur with the above (aside from Francis Schonken on some stuff, covered below). I encounter Hijiri88 regularly, and the editor is not at all disruptive or otherwise problematic on Asian culture topics or elsewhere, in my experience. What happened over Japanese poetry was a momentary blip, and even if some restriction were kept, it should be sharply narrowed to address the specifics of the case, not "Japanese culture" generally. I find it hard to credit that Hijiri88 would be disruptive in that topic area, going forward. The lesson appears to have been learned, and there's no evidence Hijiri88 is habitually intemperate or obsessive.
Francis's concerns seem very localized to a couple of specific disputes (about which I'll take his word), plus a distaste for Hijiri's ANI activities. The former seem like a personal dispute that's pretty old news at this point, though it is within the year. Two diffs don't really seem to establish much of a pattern, though. I don't spend enough time at ANI to have much of a pro or con view on Hijiri's entries there; almost everything at ANI that isn't addressing a WP:NOTHERE troll, vandal or COI matter seems like a waste of time to me, so it's difficult to conceptualize a scale of deplorable through fantastic behavior or style there. I do have to question the idea of banning an editor from one of the prescribed dispute resolution forums/methods. Anyway, I encounter Hijiri88 through normal content editing, and policy discussions, and their input has been constructive in my encounters, though occasionally emotional, as with many of us. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 09:10, 18 September 2017 (UTC) Updated to account for Francis's later materials. 00:36, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information.
Remedy 4 (Hijiri88: Topic ban (II)) of the Catflap08 and Hijiri88 arbitration case is suspended for a period of six months. During the period of suspension, this restriction may be reinstated by any uninvolved administrator as an arbitration enforcement action should Hijiri88 fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process in the area defined in the topic ban remedy. After six months from the date this motion is enacted, if the restriction has not been reinstated or any reinstatements have been successfully appealed, the restriction will automatically lapse.
Enacted - Mini apolis 22:57, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Initiated by Fæ at 15:14, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
The case Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Sexology was over four years ago. The committee seems overdue to revisit these topics of discretionary sanctions as they lump various modern, appropriate, and non-controversial LGBT+ articles with topics of "abnormal sexual desires". The template that is being used on recent articles of wide interest like Danica Roem, offensively lumps articles about trans people and trans issues with hebephilia. As I would hope Arbcom is sensitive to the difference between gender and sex, Arbcom's own rulings must make that difference clear, in order to avoid unintended downstream outcomes, like the template text "The Arbitration Committee has authorized uninvolved administrators to impose discretionary sanctions on users who edit pages related to transgender issues and paraphilia classification (e.g. hebephilia), including this article" which makes it seem that Arbcom and the Wikipedia community does not understand there is a difference between transgender and paraphilia topics in terms of controversy.
In the four years since the Sexology case, the Wikimedia project landscape and community understanding of LGBT+ topics has changed a lot. For example we now have a well established Wikimedia LGBT+ user group, who may be approached for suggestions if Arbcom would be helped by an independent user group view, Wikimedia has officially funded diversity events and LGBT+ editathons, Wikipedia policies have head-on tackled respectful treatment of trans related articles and biographies, and the quality and variety of LGBT+ related articles has significantly expanded to the public benefit.
I request that Arbcom formally recommend that the current implementation of the Sexology case (2013) is revised so that LGBT+ related articles are treated with respect and sensitivity, even if discretionary sanctions are in place and a template is needed. Further, and possibly within a longer timeframe, I request that Arbcom now review the evidence for Sexology case section 4.1 " Standard discretionary sanctions are authorized for all pages dealing with transgender issues and paraphilia classification (e.g., hebephilia)" and if the evidence demonstrates that there is no reason to believe the topic of "transgender" is a battleground, to remove the topic of transgender, until a further case with recent evidence of this being a locus of persistent disruption is brought to the committee and a separate ruling may be made.
I confirm I have an interest in the Wikimedia LGBT+ user group as an active participant and at various times have represented LGBT+ interests at Wikimedia conferences, but this does not represent a conflict of interest and neither was I a party or participant in the case. -- Fæ ( talk) 15:14, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
Addendum WRT evidence - After writing this request, it was only after Newyorkbrad's comment that I realized that the Manning case was relevant. The statement in the Manning case added to the Sexology DS with "For the avoidance of doubt, these discretionary sanctions apply to any dispute regarding the proper article title, pronoun usage, or other manner of referring to any individual known to be or self-identifying as transgender, including but not limited to Chelsea/Bradley Manning." As a previous administrator I never enforced a DS, and so not thought to check the Arbcom enforcement log. The log shows that there have been three enforcements of the Sexology DS. All were related to the Chelsea Manning article discussions and the article move, and all are over four years ago. In Wikipedia terms, four years with no enforcement is a very long time, especially when the single locus of disruption requiring enforcement was one article, not transgender or paraphilia articles more generally. There is no evidence apart from opinion, that the Sexology DS have been effective or necessary on any articles apart from Chelsea Manning in the last four years, or that use of the {{ controversial}} would not be as effective to minimize disruptive behaviour, as history appears to show for paraphilia articles. -- Fæ ( talk) 12:24, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
{{
controversial}}
sufficient.Alternative solution proposed: A different template. Either a) a general sexology DS template that doesn't get into specifics, or b) separate templates for paraphilias, for LGBTQI issues, and for sexology as a discipline, to forestall any further dispute and offense caused by them all being lumped together. They were correctly lumped in dealing with disruption about them, as having a similar base cause and nature, but they're not properly correlated in any other way.
Oppose the proposed original solution, because the TG-related articles are still subject to a lot of problematic editing, and the DS should remain. This requester's proposal would throw the dispute reduction baby out with the bad template wording bathwater.
—
SMcCandlish
☏
¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 18:10, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
I agree with SMcCandlish's suggestion to split out three DS templates. It seems to me that that would fix the very annoying issue at hand without requiring substantive changes to the original case. -- SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:57, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
I agree that transgender issues should not be lumped in with paraphilia issues in a DS notice. However, I feel strongly that transgender-related articles should remain under discretionary sanctions. I witness disruption on these articles constantly. Therefore I would support a separate DS notice specific to trans issues. Funcrunch ( talk) 21:24, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
As Fae mentioned above, gender and sexual preference are independent. Wouldn't it make sense to separate transgender templates from lesbian/gay/bisexual templates? Would a sexuality template and a gender template fix these issues? -- DHeyward ( talk) 13:29, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
I was the editor who initially alerted WikiProject LGBT studies about this issue.
I'm not really convinced by the argument that it would be too much work by as claimed by Callanecc. From what I can tell, these are all the articles with this tag:
|topic=pa
for reasons unknown to me.Note that none of these articles are about "paraphilia classification (e.g. hebephilia)"; aside from Kerik, all of these articles are about transgender individuals or topics.
None of the other "areas of conflict" are about such disjoint topics, so this one stands out. And even if you clarify that the topics are "clear it applies to both areas independently", there's no way to prevent it from affecting connotations and building on harmful stereotypes.
Umimmak ( talk) 09:14, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
pa
to something else if this is done to make it less opaque. (I remain neutral as to whether to remove or just rewrite.)I think the best way forwards here is a two-step process. Step one being to replace the current DS authorisation and associated templates with ones covering the three separate areas which collectively cover the same scope as at present. If any topics fall into multiple areas then they can simply be noted as being covered by all that apply and any sanctions necessary can be applied under whichever is more appropriate to the individual circumstances (there is precedent for this - a few years ago the Operation Flavius article was covered by both The Troubles and Gibraltar DS areas, I placed a sanction under the former as that was most relevant to the specific disruption). If there is any disagreement about which of the three topic areas a given page/category should be in then this should be taken to an appropriate noticeboard or wikiproject talk page, with placing it in multiple categories being an option.
Step two is an optional review of whether the DS topics are still required, and a request to the Committee if removal is desired. This should wait until after the migration is complete and any discussions about categorisation have concluded and should examine the topic areas individually as the answer is not necessarily going to be the same for all of them.
This should eliminate the problems initially noted while not throwing out any babies with bathwater. Thryduulf ( talk) 14:20, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
pa
code into two distinct codes, one for transgender issues and one for paraphilia issues? I think this could be done as a clerk actions without a need to modify the underlying sanction.
GoldenRing (
talk) 16:55, 8 November 2017 (UTC)I think people might be reading a bit too much into the two topics being conflated in this remedy. It's not the Committee (then, now or future) making any comment that the issues are equated with each other. Instead, it's the Committee (then) identifying, in the Sexology case, that these two topic areas were/are contentious and that both came up in the same case.
Having said that, I'm minded to remove these discretionary sanctions completely given that the last time discretionary sanctions have been used was three and a half years ago (and that was reinstating a TBAN which had expired). Before that, in 2013, they were only used in relation to the Manning dispute. Callanecc ( talk • contribs • logs) 07:39, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
Remedy 4.1 ("Discretionary sanctions") of the Sexology case is amended to read:
Any sanctions or other restrictions imposed under the previous wording of this remedy to date shall remain in force unaffected.
Remedy 4.1 ("Discretionary sanctions") of the Sexology case is rescinded. Any sanctions or other restrictions imposed under this remedy to date shall remain in force unaffected.
Enacted - Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 23:39, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Initiated by Nyttend at 14:55, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
Per WP:IPBLENGTH, IPs should almost never be indef-blocked. I found these two IPs at Wikipedia:Database reports/Indefinitely blocked IPs: 190.140.234.59 was blocked in 2008 for evading a ban placed at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Stefanomencarelli (the underlying account is no longer blocked), and 2003:51:4A44:E240:213:E8FF:FEED:36FB was apparently attempting to distribute child pornography when blocked in 2014. Unless you believe that these two are likely to warrant re-blocking, could they be unblocked? No point in notifying them ("hello IP, are you still going to be disruptive?"), but I'll notify the admins who blocked them. Please note that this not a complaint about anyone; I would have asked the blocking admins and not come here, but I know that an admin shouldn't revert an arbitration block even if he placed the block himself.
PS, would the Committee please direct one of the checkusers to tell us what IPs, or IP ranges, are being used by the bots operating on WMF Labs? Back when we had the Toolserver, {{ Toolserver IP}} told us to indef-softblock the Toolserver IPs (bots often edited logged out), and that's likely no longer needed. I filed a quick SPI request for the IPs in question, but inexplicably this request was treated like a privacy-violating request for checkuser on a human, not a request for technical assistance with the WMF servers.
It's worth noting that Stefanomencarelli is no longer banned, so the indefinite block on 190.140.234.59 isn't even relevant anymore. That one can certainly be unblocked. The admin which blocked it, Rlandmann, is active. He can revert his own AE action. ~ Rob13 Talk 19:44, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Initiated by Kingsindian at 10:34, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
[To clarify, I have included The Wordsmith as a party because they have in the past acted as a steward for Coffee's administrative actions.]
I am not sure this is the right venue, but I think it is. I am here seeking a relatively narrow amendment. The situation is as follows:
In May 2016, Coffee created a template (linked above) which is used on more than 100 pages dealing with American politics. The template includes a "consensus required" provision: challenged material should not be restored unless it has consensus.
FWIW, I only placed the article under 1RR/consensus required because that was what came packaged in 2016 US Election AE [template]; it wasn't so much an explicit decision to make it consensus required.
I propose that the template to be used as the "default" for post-1932 American elections contain the amendment I proposed. The amendment is modeled on the solution used in ARBPIA, and takes care of a very common justification for the "consensus required" provision (see TonyBallioni's comment linked above, for instance). This is a much more lightweight, well-tested and clearer sanction. To be clear: individual pages may still have the "consensus required" provision placed on them. In this way, collateral damage from what I consider a bad provision will be minimized. If ArbCom wishes to make an explicit statement either way (either rescinding the consensus required provision altogether, or to affirm it to be the "default"), they can also do so.
The above text is self-sufficient. In the following, I make a case for the badness of the "consensus required" provision. People can skip it if they want.
My argument hinges on two points. First, consensus on Wikipedia is mostly silent and implicit; indeed this is explicitly enshrined in policy. Second, any bureaucratic provision must prove its worth if it is to be imposed. I will now expand on each of the points.
Click here to file a request for amendment of an arbitration decision or procedure (including an arbitration enforcement sanction issued by an administrator, such as through discretionary sanctions).Did I read them wrongly? By the way, this has already been discussed on AE, and the discussion didn't go anywhere. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 11:24, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
In general, I will wait for a few more comments from Arbs; if they feel that AE is the best venue, I'll withdraw this and refile there. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 17:05, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
I agree that this should be at WP:AE. ~ Rob13 Talk 11:09, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
The main problem here appears to be that the template containing the "consensus required" provision is the only one available for administrators to use for ARBAP2 sanctions. However, there is no decision by ArbCom mandating the use of the "consensus required" provision or that template. @ Kingsindian: Would it resolve your request if I created an ARBAP2 talk notice template that did not include the "consensus required" provision? (Perhaps this template could also have "If an edit is reverted by another editor, its original author may not restore it within 24 hours of the revert.") That way, administrators could still make the conscious choice to choose to use that provision on a case-by-case basis, but documentation should note that the other template is also available. Thanks, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 14:13, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Initiated by Opabinia regalis at 05:34, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
Δ (formerly Betacommand) was banned in the Betacommand 3 case, which closed in February 2012. The decision contained a provision under which he would develop a plan for editing as part of his appeal, and the committee would offer this plan for community review. This ARCA should be considered the community review component of the remedy. The text of Δ's appeal is as follows:
As I have stated previously I have made mistakes in the past (CIVIL, socking) I would like to put these behind me and move on and make progress for the future. The proposal for unblock is:
I have previously outlined a limited editing plan, beyond that I really cannot commit to much more since I already have a lot of stuff on my real world plate. ΔT The only constant 00:43, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
Comments are invited from the community on whether this appeal should be granted and what, if any, restrictions or modifications to the proposed restrictions should be considered. Community members may wish to review the following recent discussions: the "Public Appeal" section on Δ's talk page and this advisory RfC. It is not necessary to repeat details of posts made to the RfC. (Note that Δ has been unblocked to participate in this ARCA only.) Opabinia regalis ( talk) 05:34, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
I am going to keep my responses to the point since this section will probably get fairly large.
@
Alanscottwalker: I have outlined ~6 month editing plan, I don't have my notes handy but I will dig out the details for you.
ΔT The only constant 22:46, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
@ Alanscottwalker: My planned activities are fairly limited at this point to minor gnoming (fixing issues that I come across), refreshing myself with the culture and policy shifts since I was active. Documenting and addressing issues with the tools currently on the toolforge (aka WMF labs). Examples of future edits: I will be fixing issues like [5] where google is listed as a publisher when in reality it is University of Manitoba Press, [6] cases where reflists have too few/many columns, and similar gnomish stuff. ΔT The only constant 01:21, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
@ Masem: I purposely avoided the term simi-automatic because I don't want to get into what is and isn't a "pattern" of edits. I also wanted to have specific, definable rules. In the past claims about simi-auto/pattern edits have left me at a he said/she said argument because the only way to defend against those claims is to have a camera over my shoulder recording my screen as I make every edit. By limiting the wording to automated we set a clearly definable and clear line. If we wanted to specifically call out dis-allowing AWB, that wouldn't be an issue. ΔT The only constant 22:46, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
The above Appeal speaks of a previously outlined "limited editing plan", would the committee or clerk please explicitly append that to the above Appeal, for clarity sake? -- Alanscottwalker ( talk) 10:51, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
I oppose this unbanning. Although seemingly not mentioned here, Werieth ( talk · contribs) was another highly active sock in 2013–2014. I encountered them then, and found them so problematic just of themself that it went to ANI. It soon became obvious that they were also a Betacommand sock. A variety of ANI ructions ensued, [7], User_talk:Andy_Dingley/Archive_5#FYI, User talk:Arnhem 96, User_talk:Andy_Dingley/Archive_5#Can_we_get_a_few_things_straight.3F et al. This ended with me blocked for refusing to accept Werieth as a gf editor (I thought they warranted indef blocking for their own attitude, let alone the obvious socking), and a group of admins who clearly supported Betacommand so much that they were happy to proceed on this basis. My blocking admin sought an indef block of me and described me later as 'I consider you to be de facto banned'. When Werieth was finally blocked as a sock it still took appreciable time before I was most begrudgingly unblocked as the issue was now 'moot' (i.e. they'd still been right to block me), rather than any sort of apology for actually having been right all along.
There is no discussion in this unban request of Betacommand's support amongst this handful of admins. If they were blocking other editors to support him when he was blocked, what are they going to get up to if he's restored?
I also question the GF of an unban request that can't even acknowledge their past socks.
Betacommand is too toxic an editor to be let back. There is no evidence that they have changed their behaviour. Andy Dingley ( talk) 12:33, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
The plan is sound, curtails the past problematic behaviour, and my interactions with Betacommand/Δ in the past years have all been very positive and productive. Give him the WP:ROPE, he'll be under plenty of scrutiny from the community. It's a rather easy thing to re-block if he misbehaves again. Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 12:44, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
Oppose unban, for all reasons outlined at the advisory RfC recently, and for this unsatisfactory unban plan. "I have made mistakes in the past (CIVIL, socking)" And, umm, the actual reasons you were banned in the first place? The problems didn't arise out of the socking or out of incivility, it was the actual editing that was too often the problem. Plus what Andy Dingley said; an unban plan should at least list the socks, not just some vague "I have socked" statement. Fram ( talk) 12:56, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
Those of us who lived through the years of ongoing drama caused by Beta won't soon forget the turmoil they caused. No person is completely irredeemable, but the worse the editor was, the more they flipped off the community, the higher the bar is for their return, and I cannot think of many banned editors for whom the bar is higher than it is for Beta. I think we would require much more in the way of assurances and protective restrictions then are provided for here to allow Beta to even dip his toe into editing again. Further, the idea that an unblock plan which includes Beta's being allowed to use bots (even delayed for 6 months) is one that will pass community muster is totally unrealistic, considering it was bot editing that was at the root of Beta's problems. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 20:28, 17 November 2017 (UTC)Betacommand is too toxic an editor to be let back. There is no evidence that they have changed their behaviour.
Support the unblock request, though I would also suggest the plan include the use of semi-automated tools (AWB, etc.) among the six-month ban on bot use. Beta's identified the two big areas that caused the problems in the past - NFC enforcement, and bot tools. Nearly all the problems related to behavior was related how editors confronted Beta about these actions and Beta's inappropriate responses. Keep Beta out of NFC and automated editing and that takes away 90% of the problem. The rest has to deal about editors with grudges against Beta (which can be seen above already), and we should expect that Beta should be civil in face of hostility (though taking cues from how the current sanctions regarding interactions for TheRamblingMan should be taken, so that editors are not purposely taunting Beta into mis-action). -- MASEM ( t) 20:35, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
I support the unblock request and I would support Masem's restrictions as well. I am sure that if you unblock, there will be editors with sharp eyes ready to pounce if there is a CIVIL or NPA or BOT violation. As such, I think the risk to the encyclopedia is manageable versus the potential. Sir Joseph (talk) 20:45, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
I know Arbcom say they don't want material from the RFC being repeated here, but I'm going to regardless: I don't believe he even understands why he was so disruptive, let alone any kind of indication that he won't go back to his old habits at the first chance
. Why are we even entertaining an unblock request when he's lying in the unblock request about why he was blocked? The absolute minimum I'd be willing to accept to even consider shifting my position from "keep banned forever" is a total and permanent (no "after six months" or anything else of the sort) ban on automation, anything to do with copyright and anything to do with deletion, and even then I'd be reluctant. Wikipedia's willingness to give second chances is laudable; when it comes to a sixteenth chance (or whatever we're up to now) for someone who every single time they're given another "final chance" immediately goes back to what they were doing before, less so.
I'd like to refer to a longer comment I wrote to Arbcom in 2011 about codependency, which is still completely relevant. The cause of the editing restrictions, arbitration case, and ban was not violations of CIVIL nor the use of sockpuppets (although those are also issues). The cause was the inappropriate use of automated edits over a period of years, often related to NFC, and a refusal to change or stop those edits in light of repeated feedback.
Nothing in the wording of the appeal suggests that a different pattern would emerge if Δ were allowed to return to editing. Indeed, I don't see any strong reason why he should be allowed to return.
However, if there is a desire for yet another chance, it should involve a complete recusal from all aspects of NFC on wiki (no discussing NFC in any on-wiki forum, including his talk page, no assisting with others who do NFC maintenance - a complete recusal). And there should be a complete recusal from all bot-related activity for the indefinite future, with no schedule for ever becoming a bot operator. The appeal as written is an appeal to continue the cycle of codependency which was only finally broken by a complete ban from the wiki. Nevertheless, if the ban is lifted, I fear that we will again see Δ either ignore or game his restrictions, rather than to take them to heart and avoid any possible appearance of breaking them. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 21:14, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
Per the above two comments. To be more explicit about Andy Dingley's comment above, Betacommand has been overtly and covertly protected/supported by members of the admin corps. Even if he did return, at some point he will cause problems, and then editors like Dingley will end up paying the price again. I cant see a future where his coming back ends well for anyone. Only in death does duty end ( talk) 22:03, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
I don't believe I was on or atleast around when all of this occurred or ended however looking through the various cases I have to agree with Andy "Betacommand is too toxic an editor to be let back. There is no evidence that they have changed their behaviour.", I'm all for second chances and they may well be a reformed character however judging by the amount of crap they caused I honestly don't see any net positive in unbanning them, However as I said I wasn't all that around so I don't know as much as those above but from my reading of it all I don't see any positives in unbanning them, Thanks, – Davey2010 Talk 23:15, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
This was an enormously problematic editor. The way to minimize problems is to minimize enormously problematic editors. There are plenty of other Wiki projects for them to volunteer at, they don't need to be here. Carrite ( talk) 23:35, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
Per Iridescent and Andy Dingley, the whole circumstance is such I can't support. I can understand why some might feel Beta is getting special handling here, and it does look that way to me. No unblock statement should be accepted that doesn't first acknowledge the original and ongoing reasons it has been kept in place. This just has the odor of backroom discussions to me. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 13:35, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
I'm not seeing here where Δ is actually addressing the issues which they were banned for in Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Betacommand 3. Specifically - they willfully violated the terms of their community imposed sanctions. They "often performed tasks without approval from the community", "often saved edits without reviewing them for problems", and "often performed tasks at edit-rates exceeding four edits per minute in any ten minute period of time". To be fair, this appeal does mention the incivility problems, but it doesn't really address how Δ plans to improve that issue. The other three problems are not addressed at all. I'm not seeing any explicit recognition that they tried to deceive the community with the Werieth account. And allowing them to participate in NFCC discussions is just plain insane. As for the possibility of running a bot account - no. Just no. It would take years to get the community trust back enough to allow them automated editing. And I'm not seeing how this appeal is actually any improvement on gaining the trust back, given the problems that are swept under the rug that I've listed above.
And these are just the problems with this appeal from the third and final ArbCom case, it doesn't even begin to delve into the problems ignored from the community ban discussions (for both Δ and Werieth) as well as the two earlier ArbCom cases. (And as a freaking aside - why in HADES do we allow user accounts with symbols? It's a royal pain in the ass to have to either type the unicode, type the wild keyboard equivalent, or copy-paste some character just to be polite and address the user by their current account "name". I wonder if Δ's use of the symbol is not some unconscious "finger in the eye" to the community as well...)
And Δ's own statements above do not help the matter. "For those who want a complete topic ban for both NFC and bot related areas, I see that as overly broad. The issues in the past have been with NFC enforcement edits, not the discussions. Similar point can be made in regards to bots, issues where with the mass editing not the discussions." Uh, no. There WERE problems with the discussion style - see the findings of fact 2.2 from Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Betacommand 3. Yes, I do think a "broad" topic ban as a good idea. Yes, I think it should be permanent. Δ - you still do not see how out of touch your ideas of your own editing is with community norms. Until you can learn to listen to what the community is telling you, you will keep having issues. Learn to edit without bots or automation. Learn to accept the fact that your own self-evaluation is not how the community sees your editing and that you need to change how you behave. All I see from this set of suggestions is that you want to return to editing the way you were before you were banned. That isnt' going to fly with the community and you need to internalize and accept that before you have a hope of re-earning the community's trust.
No comment on the unblock request.
I request that the Committee rescind remedy 3 of the Betacommand case, and permit Δ to submit future unblock requests per the usual community processes as generally defined in the banning policy. The remedy as stated shrouds the process behind the veil of Arbcom, which can make it seem to the community that the Committee is failing to respond to unblock requests when in fact none was submitted, and which led very recently to an embarrassing circus of an RfC featuring a number of long-tenured and well-respected members of the community behaving like petulant children. That should not be allowed to happen again. Ivanvector ( Talk/ Edits) 22:01, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
@ Alanscottwalker: I realize that. Still, Arbcom should not be creating situations like this where ban appeals from some users have to be submitted in some prescribed format which differs from policy and varies from case to case: it creates unnecessary confusion and leads to the sort of conflict we saw a month or so ago. There is precedent for Arbcom doing whatever it feels appropriate in any situation, which has left a long history of various users being banned with a whole spectrum of different and sometimes unusual conditions; I made a list in the RfC to illustrate that problem. In this case in particular, the condition that Arbcom has to green-light an appeal before it goes to the community anyway just seems like unnecessary red tape: it's ultimately up to the community anyway. Arbcom should either lift the ban or not, or else step away and leave this for the community to deal with, and I don't see any reason in this case why the community is incapable of doing so. Arbitrators are supposed to be, well, arbitrators, not prison wardens. Ivanvector ( Talk/ Edits) 16:21, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
@ Alanscottwalker: you're right about all that, except for the "not up to the community" part. Remedy 3 states, in part: The Committee shall present this plan to the community for review and comment prior to any modification of Betacommand's ban. I read this as indication that the Committee intends not to act without the community's endorsement, thus this is an arbitration ban in name only, and functionally a community ban. If it's not up to the community, then what is this ARCA? Ivanvector ( Talk/ Edits) 16:58, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
@ Euryalus and Opabinia regalis: I appreciate you taking the time to comment. I do think it would be a good idea for the Committee to establish something like a "standard provision" for arbitration bans, which simply refers to the appeal process in the banning policy (including revising that policy, if necessary). Ideally this would also allow for revisions to those processes to apply retroactively (say if we brought back BASC, or something) so that we don't have "old" cases like this one hanging on to an outdated process. Adding extra language about community input (or about whatever) breeds the sort of confusion evident here: did Δ submit an appeal? did it meet the prescribed format? what is the prescribed format? et cetera. I don't really see any reason why all arbitration bans and appeals can't be handled through a common process, I suppose excepting cases involving private info, but even in those cases the Committee has always been pretty good with transparency within appropriate limits. Ivanvector ( Talk/ Edits) 14:20, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
I edit-conflicted with Ivanvector, who said it better than I did and with whom I concur completely (other than I lean toward favoring some kind of loosening of the restrictions, per WP:ROPE – perhaps a provisional unban with a prohibition against automated and maybe semi-automated edits), so I won't re-state essentially the same stuff in other wording. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 22:28, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
I don't believe that unblocking with restrictions would be appropriate. If I remember rightly (and based on what others have said), most of Betacommand's blocks have arisen from restrictions that were imposed on him. Whether he's persistently violated those restrictions, or whether his opponents have persistently gotten rid of him through specious complaints, I can't say (I've not looked into it at all), but permitting Betacommand to edit with restrictions virtually guarantees that we're going to have yet more disputes over his editing restrictions. If he can be trusted to edit properly, drop the restrictions; if he can't be trusted to edit properly, leave him banned. Nyttend backup ( talk) 00:45, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
This editor has been blocked for many years - a punishment that exceeds the crime. He means well, has continued to he helpful, and I've got enough AGF to believe people can grow in maturity and wisdom in 5 years. Legacypac ( talk) 02:11, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
I read a lot of material going back years which refreshed my memory and I strongly oppose allowing this person to return to editing. I have many reasons but one sticks in my mind. This person blatantly and flagrantly lied to the community about their Werieth socking. Had they told the truth when asked, Andy Dingley would not have been blocked. I see not a shred of contrition and I can never trust a person who lies like that without a detailed acknowledgement of past misconduct and a sincere pledge to avoid all past problem areas. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 03:38, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
Editor (A) demonstrably cannot be trusted, and (B) is highly toxic and disruptive. Under no circumstances should ArbCom unban the editor. If the editor still insists on somehow appealing the ban, if push comes to shove it should only be put to the community at large. But ideally the request should just be shut down. No matter how much good an editor may have done at their best, if the mountain of evidence proves they are by far a net negative and cannot be trusted, the answer has got to be no, for the sake of the encyclopedia and for the sake of the community and its individual editors. Softlavender ( talk) 06:22, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
I believe in the possibility of people changing as much as anyone; i also, however, find it hard to believe that, in the absence of evidence, this editor has changed. Legacypac has it wrong: This block is not a punishment, but a way of preventing further turmoil and damage; there is no reason to believe that that turmoil will not continue if Betacommand is unblocked. Andy Dingley says it succinctly and best: A toxic editor should not be allowed here ~ at least until he shows some signs of understanding and accepting the behaviour that led him here; the misleading, at best, request is not such a sign. Happy days, Lindsay Hello 10:59, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
The unblock request shows no recognition of, contrition for, nor promise to avoid repeating some of the most problematic behaviors that ended with this block, including both abuse of automation and deception leading to the unfair block and almost-ban of another productive editor. Unless these issues are addressed I think an unblock is premature. — David Eppstein ( talk) 21:47, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
There seems to be here only what I can term as a conspiracy theory. The notion that there is some cabal of admins have misused their position of trust to protect this user. This should be ignored in regards to whether to unban him or not. If this is true then a separate case at the appropriate location should be opened to review the facts pertaining to these admins actions and where applicable remove them from this position of trust.
I don't find it unreasonable to ask Δ to further address their actions beyond a generic comment such as I have made mistakes in the past (CIVIL, socking). In addition some of the addendum's suggested such as as the prohibition of using certain specialized semi-automated tools like AWB that provided any bot like behavior that would allow him to do any disruptive action is a similar nature o their prior bot related disruption. I have to say no at this time without the above.
In principle I can support unbanning this user. In the end they can always be banned again. This is from 2012. I question what it would take from those who have said no to unban his user? -Serialjoepsycho- ( talk) 22:33, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
Having refreshed my memory about why Δ was banned, I firmly oppose unblocking based on the current plan. As others have also noted, there is no acknowledgement of the relatively recent socking, no list of socks, no acknowledgement of the disruption caused, no acknowledgement about the fundamental reasons for that behaviour, no demonstration of how they have changed and how they will avoid causing further disruption, and no reason why he should be trusted this time after betraying that trust so many times previously. Thryduulf ( talk) 00:04, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
The remedy in Betacommand 3 requires Betacommand not only submit a "plan outlining his intended editing activity", but that he should also "demonstrat[e] his understanding of and intention to refrain from the actions which resulted in his ban". It appears that Betacommand is supposed to demonstrate this in the context of presenting the plan to the community.
Like the others, I'm not wowed by Betacommand's compliance with this latter portion, though I somewhat understand why it is so brief. I believe the intent of this ARCA is to submit the plan outlining intended editing activity so it can be fairly evaluated separately from concerns as to how repentant Betacommand is. Dealing with it all at once would likely result in almost no focus on the intended editing activity. As this discussion has progressed, it's clear that had Betacommand focused more on the conduct that resulted in his ban, we would not be talking at all about the plan.
From my perspective, I think this is a decent enough plan, though I would agree with others who say semi-automated editing as with AWB should be off the table along with fully automated editing. And of course, Betacommand should comply with the portion of the Betacommand 3 remedy requiring him to "demonstrat[e] his understanding of and intention to refrain from the actions which resulted in his ban". —/ Mendaliv/ 2¢/ Δ's/ 00:11, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
I'm generally against usernames which can't be typed on a standard English-language keyboard on English Wikipedia. In the case of a user who has caused a significant amount of trouble in the past (in fact, this user has his own section of WP:AN as a centralized location for discussions about him), I believe that changing his username should be an absolute requirement. If the user is willing to do this, I would support allowing the user to re-enter the Wikipedia community gradually - and the proposed restrictions (including specific semi-automated tools, such as AWB) look like a good start.
Simply put no.
I urge anyone who is inclined to give Betacommand another (4th, 5th?) chance please read:
As the arb who wrote the first of these decisions, and who has been an interested observer of the subsequent two, based on my intimate knowledge of Betacopmmand’s past actions, I can say with confidence that granting this request would be an extremely bad idea.
I see no evidence (certainly not in this request) that Betacommand understands what the problems are, nor do I believe, that Betacommand has the ability to understand them. Betacommand’s one-size-fits-all approach, and predilection for bot-aided-mass-edits is inherently problematic. Betacommand’s inability to communicate, would only compound the inevitable problems such edits entail.
Paul August ☎ 16:38, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
No.
This is clearly just another attempt by Beta to return to abusive bot usage.
And on another note, someone needs to force rename his account to something that isn't completely impossible to type on mobile. Jtrainor ( talk) 13:55, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
Oddly, I think the pitchforks and torches above are actually the best reason to unblock - simply put, Beta would be watched like a hawk by dozens of editors keen to see him banned again. I see that as a no-lose situation, frankly. Black Kite (talk) 14:03, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
I would support this unblock request - it's been 3+ years since the last socking, significantly longer since the original block, and we all change. If this is just a ploy or attempt to game the system, that'll be quickly identified and I see no shortage of people willing, if not eager, to pull the trigger. PGWG ( talk) 18:03, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
Please do not add more bot drama to the encyclopedia. Most editors simply do not care about bots or bot policy. If I am aware of a bot issue it is a sign that something has gone very badly wrong because I think along with Wikidata, it is the most boring area on Wikipedia and do my absolute best to stay away from it. We have the editor who is known for running the most controversial bot in Wikipedia's history. Do we really think that they are not going to try to get involved with bot policy and do we really think that their involvement there will be a net-positive to the encyclopedia, even if they don't run a bot themselves? Please save us the drama of more automation conflict. I strongly oppose this unban. TonyBallioni ( talk) 05:03, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
We absolutely should unban Δ. It was a net loss to the community to ban him from the get go, and he's been blocked for far more than a sufficient time (per Legacypac). FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY [u+1F602] 17:58, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
Quite a few of the comments in opposition to the unbanning of Δ are bordering on or, if not, outright personal attacks. We get it: Δ is banned and quite a few people don't like him but neither of those are a free pass to insult him and malign his character. I don't care if he allegedly caused "years of disruption" - Δ is still a human being and last I checked, no personal attacks is still a policy. Commenting on his actions is absolutely valid criticism but to continually refer to him as "toxic" and to call him other names isn't acceptable.
And please, please, *please* call him Δ. To continually refer to someone by a name they have long since abandoned is offensive and disrespectful; again, a person being unpopular is not a free pass to be disrespectful to them. It doesn't matter if his name can't easily be typed - there's such a thing as cut and paste or you can use "Delta". Acalamari 12:23, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
No, please don't unblock Beta. The RFC clearly indicates community opinion. -- Begoon 12:37, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
I actually believe that Δ means to be constructive if allowed to return, but from what I see there is still a lack of understanding there about how they got into trouble in the first place. The first step to avoid repeating your mistakes is to understand them. I'm not seeing a deep enough understanding there on the part of Δ to stop themselves from getting into difficulty again. I do not recommend an unblock at this time.
If allowed back under some form of restricted access, I think it is imperative that we put forward a condition that any blocks of Δ (or whatever account they end up using) should only be appealable to Arbcom, rather than to the drama boards. The whole situation with them in the past was dragged out for far longer than it needed to be due to a small group of admins who were happy to cover for them and drag the drama out for as long as possible. Such a condition would prevent a re-run of those unfortunate events, while still giving Δ some protection against heavy handed blocks for minor infractions. Lankiveil ( speak to me) 03:52, 27 November 2017 (UTC).
Definitely unban. It has been long enough. -- Dirk Beetstra T C 07:53, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Initiated by Huldra at 23:17, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:
Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
How is the above statement: "Each editor is limited to one revert per page per 24 hours on any page that could be reasonably construed as being related to the Arab-Israeli conflict. If an edit is reverted by another editor, its original author may not restore it within 24 hours" to be interpreted?
I have discussed it with User:Opabinia regalis and User:Callanecc at some length here.
There are presently 2 different interpretations, lets call them Version 1 and Version 2:
I can live with either version (both are an improvement on what we had), I just need to know which one is the correct interpretation. Huldra ( talk) 23:17, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
I support Callanecc's interpretation that "the original author may not restore it within 24 hours after the other user's revert." These restrictions are designed to encourage broader talk page discussion leading to consensus, and slowing down article space reversions serves that goal. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 05:21, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
Only version 2 is logically feasible. Example of why: I make an edit at 00:01. No one notices it until 23:59, and they revert it. Two minutes later, at 00:02, more than 24 hours has passed under version 1, so I'd be free to re-revert. Not cool, and not the intent. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 06:35, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should opine whether and how the Committee should clarify or amend the decision or provide additional information.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Initiated by Hijiri88 at 23:50, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
Sorry to bring this up in the "lame duck" session (I don't mind waiting until the new year before anyone notices this), but I would like to appeal my "Nichiren Buddhism" ban, similarly to how I appealed my "Japanese culture" ban in September.
I have no desire to specifically go back and edit the articles that were at the center of my dispute with Catflap08, most of which centered around 20th-century nationalistic Nichirenism and the poet Miyazawa Kenji, with Nichiren Buddhism actually being somewhat peripheral to most of my edits to the latter -- hence, presumably, why "and its adherents" was included in the wording of the ban. The reason I am appealing is that I don't want to look over my shoulder every time I edit an article on someone not specifically known for being an adherent of Nichiren Buddhism to see if they may have been associated with it. Some examples:
I'd be happy to see the ban suspended for six months, during which time it could be reinstated by any uninvolved admin, rather than an immediate full repeal, similar to the previous appeal.
Hijiri 88 ( 聖 やや) 23:50, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
No opinion on the matter at hand, but this is to inform the Committee that I have procedurally closed an ANI request in which it was alleged that John Carter violated a topic ban by commenting in this thread. I assume that if any action with respect to this is needed, it is up to the Committee to take such action, considering that the conduct at issue occurred in this arbitration forum. If I erred in that assumption, an indication that this alleged topic ban violation can be examined in other fora such as WP:AE would be welcome. Sandstein 00:00, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
I'd support the committee granting this request. I've been the admin he has been working with on the copyright issue, and I've found him nothing but reasonable there. If this is how he interacts with editors with whom he disagrees or comes into conflict with, I think Wikipedia would be well served to suspend this TBAN. TonyBallioni ( talk) 00:09, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
I'm here to support Hijiri (so I won't be watching this page, ping me if you need my attention). I've never seen him be anything but reasonable when it comes to content discussions, even when we disagree. I don't believe that any sort of topical editing restriction on Hijiri could accomplish anything beneficial. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 01:58, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
Since I have supported the previous amendment request ( [12]) and have worked with Hijiri88 on several occasions, I am recusing myself and submitting this statement instead. I would also support granting this request, as I personally believe this ban no longer serves any purpose, based on the rationale I have stated back in September. Alex Shih ( talk) 05:32, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information.
This procedure does not prohibit normal administrative actions to enforce Wikipedia policies and guidelines, such as a block for personal attacks or sockpuppetry."). Thanks, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 01:17, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
Remedy 3 (Hijiri88: Topic ban (I)) of the Catflap08 and Hijiri88 arbitration case is suspended for a period of six months. During the period of suspension, this restriction may be reinstated by any uninvolved administrator, as an arbitration enforcement action, should Hijiri88 fail to adhere to any normal editorial process or expectations in the area defined in the topic ban remedy. After six months from the date this motion is enacted, if the restriction has not been reinstated or any reinstatements have been successfully appealed to the Arbitration Committee, the restriction will automatically lapse.
Enacted - Kostas20142 ( talk) 11:52, 2 January 2018 (UTC)