This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
The Technical Barnstar | |
For reviving User:Bibcode Bot! Thank you so much! Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 00:00, 6 September 2017 (UTC) |
For all of the talk page stalkers out there, when interacting with arbcom what is a reasonable period to wait for a response? ΔT The only constant 17:58, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
We have now officially reached the two week point without a response. ΔT The only constant 20:46, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
5 years is far too long a banishment especially after the original said 1 year appeal. This user has not been given the chance to just return to editing without restrictions as would be the fair and proper thing to do after all these years. If he screws up again, deal with any issues. Legacypac ( talk) 13:28, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
User:Δ wishes to return as a productive member of the Wikipedia community. Whereas he was blocked in ___ 2012 by ArbComm action (link), the community believes that 5 years and __ months is long enough of a banishment and requests ArbComm lift all editing restrictions and waive any other requirements for return imposed on User:Δ forthwith. This RfC jointly proposed by editors A, B, C etc
There is my first draft. Comments and changes welcome. Legacypac ( talk) 00:48, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
@ Acalamari: @ Anomie: @ Beetstra: @ BU Rob13: @ Callanecc: @ Casliber: @ Ched: @ Cyberpower678: @ DeltaQuad: @ DGG: @ Doug Weller: @ Drmies: @ Euryalus: @ Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi: @ GorillaWarfare: @ Guy Macon: @ Hammersoft: @ Headbomb: @ John Cline: @ Keilana: @ Kelapstick: @ Kirill Lokshin: @ Ks0stm: @ MBisanz: @ Mkdw: @ MusikAnimal: @ Nagle: @ Newyorkbrad: @ Opabinia regalis: @ Slakr: @ SQL: @ The Earwig: @ Xaosflux:
This is not directed at anyone on ArbCom, but as an entity in itself. I have been interacting with ArbCom for a number of years now. In that time I have made several observations. They flat out have no standards in regards to communication. On average I am waiting at least 14 days before getting a response, and then only because I start making the rounds and prodding individual members. In the past ArbCom as applied a "Pocket Veto" to my appeal instead of reviewing the case. I have given ArbCom a 3-6 month outline of planned activities, and suggested restrictions for re-integration into the community. Given ArbCom's clear communication breakdown I am posting this to my talk page since that is the only remaining venue that I have available. I do make a request for those who will be involved in the discussion. If you have a request or proposed stipulation please make it specific and actionable. Overly vague and broad statements have caused issues because it is left up to personal interpretation on what is and isn't a violation.
A basic outline is:
1) "Topic Banned" from NFC enforcement, this does not prohibit discussion of said policy or reports based off of the policy, but does cover actions taken to enforce said policy.
2) One account restriction, with stipulations that a secondary bot account is permitted if BAG approved.
3) Large scale edits/running a bot has a 6 month ban. After which point bot activities revert to the Bot Approval Group.
4) My planned activities are fairly limited at this point to minor gnoming (fixing issues that I come across), refreshing myself with the culture and policy shifts since I was active. Documenting and addressing issues with the tools currently on the toolforge (aka WMF labs).
I would like to help, and I believe that my contributions would be useful, but I refuse to have anything to do with Arbcom. See Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard/Archive 35#I believe that I am owed an apology. -- Guy Macon ( talk) 17:19, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
I have opened a discussion related to the above appeal at Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard/Archive 35#A related aside. Comments by others are welcome there. Thank you.-- John Cline ( talk) 14:57, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
I find some of his tool useful even today. Is the suggestion that after 5 years all blocks and restrictions be lifted so he has a clean start? I'd favor that. 5 years is a very long punishment indeed. Legacypac ( talk) 15:12, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
In the time he has been blocked, kids who did not exist then are in Kindergarten. Rather than having him appeal, what about a group of interested editors together go to ANi and start a proposal to "reinstate beta with no restrictions on a clean statt basis" or some other better wording. If four or five editors cosign the proposal it will fly. Legacypac ( talk) 20:55, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
User:Δ, regarding Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Checking some sockpuppet cats, would you like me to challenge any of them, or are they valid? (Note that we are mostly talking about accounts blocked in 2008 and 2009). -- Guy Macon ( talk) 06:33, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
Δ, At Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Δ/2017 Advisory RFC I have advocated a complete lifting of all restrictions on you. The consensus seems to be going towards lifting the ban but leaving some restrictions in place for another six months.
My question is a simple one, and I apologize for having to ask it, but are you going to hang me up to dry? Looking at the reactions of a minority of those who have commented on the RfC, I can confidently predict that your every edit will be scrutinized and that there will be complaints even if you do everything right (and many more complaints if you don't). It will be a huge temptation to respond in ways that will be used against you. You will be reported for minor infractions that would be ignored if I did them. And if you respond with even a hint of incivility or stray too close to whatever limits they impose your enemies will turn on me and say "See? You vouched for him, and look what happened!". Please, tell me that you understand and will not make me regret any of this.
Yes, I know that it is unfair holding you to a stricter standard than anyone else, but you need to be squeaky clean for at least six months. You need to use the preview button every time and carefully look for errors. You need to write neutral edit summaries, and you need to do that on every edit. And in many cases you need to ignore accusations and let someone else deal with them if they are false accusations. Please tell me that I am not going to look like a fool.
Again, I apologize for the tone of this post, but I had to ask. -- Guy Macon ( talk) 04:57, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
The RfC has been posted. Please comment at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#RfC: Advisory RfC concerning Betacommand.
THIS IS A DRAFT! PLEASE COMMENT SO WE CAN IMPROVE IT! -- Guy Macon ( talk) 07:01, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
I am about to give you the exact words from Arbcom, but before your read them, please read Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Betacommand 3/Evidence for the other side of the story. A significant percentage of the community thought that it was Arbcom who was in the wrong. (You see a lot less of this since Arbcom statrted sanctioning users for presenting evidence that they don't want to hear. [1])
Here are the exact words from the Arbcom case:
Here is a list of the restrictions, again quoting Arbcom:
Then, in the 2012 decision, Arbcom said
...leading to the block and the promise (not kept, as far as I can tell) to "present this plan to the community for review and comment prior to any modification of Betacommand's ban" after a year. -- Guy Macon ( talk) 00:03, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
The Technical Barnstar | |
For reviving User:Bibcode Bot! Thank you so much! Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 00:00, 6 September 2017 (UTC) |
For all of the talk page stalkers out there, when interacting with arbcom what is a reasonable period to wait for a response? ΔT The only constant 17:58, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
We have now officially reached the two week point without a response. ΔT The only constant 20:46, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
5 years is far too long a banishment especially after the original said 1 year appeal. This user has not been given the chance to just return to editing without restrictions as would be the fair and proper thing to do after all these years. If he screws up again, deal with any issues. Legacypac ( talk) 13:28, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
User:Δ wishes to return as a productive member of the Wikipedia community. Whereas he was blocked in ___ 2012 by ArbComm action (link), the community believes that 5 years and __ months is long enough of a banishment and requests ArbComm lift all editing restrictions and waive any other requirements for return imposed on User:Δ forthwith. This RfC jointly proposed by editors A, B, C etc
There is my first draft. Comments and changes welcome. Legacypac ( talk) 00:48, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
@ Acalamari: @ Anomie: @ Beetstra: @ BU Rob13: @ Callanecc: @ Casliber: @ Ched: @ Cyberpower678: @ DeltaQuad: @ DGG: @ Doug Weller: @ Drmies: @ Euryalus: @ Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi: @ GorillaWarfare: @ Guy Macon: @ Hammersoft: @ Headbomb: @ John Cline: @ Keilana: @ Kelapstick: @ Kirill Lokshin: @ Ks0stm: @ MBisanz: @ Mkdw: @ MusikAnimal: @ Nagle: @ Newyorkbrad: @ Opabinia regalis: @ Slakr: @ SQL: @ The Earwig: @ Xaosflux:
This is not directed at anyone on ArbCom, but as an entity in itself. I have been interacting with ArbCom for a number of years now. In that time I have made several observations. They flat out have no standards in regards to communication. On average I am waiting at least 14 days before getting a response, and then only because I start making the rounds and prodding individual members. In the past ArbCom as applied a "Pocket Veto" to my appeal instead of reviewing the case. I have given ArbCom a 3-6 month outline of planned activities, and suggested restrictions for re-integration into the community. Given ArbCom's clear communication breakdown I am posting this to my talk page since that is the only remaining venue that I have available. I do make a request for those who will be involved in the discussion. If you have a request or proposed stipulation please make it specific and actionable. Overly vague and broad statements have caused issues because it is left up to personal interpretation on what is and isn't a violation.
A basic outline is:
1) "Topic Banned" from NFC enforcement, this does not prohibit discussion of said policy or reports based off of the policy, but does cover actions taken to enforce said policy.
2) One account restriction, with stipulations that a secondary bot account is permitted if BAG approved.
3) Large scale edits/running a bot has a 6 month ban. After which point bot activities revert to the Bot Approval Group.
4) My planned activities are fairly limited at this point to minor gnoming (fixing issues that I come across), refreshing myself with the culture and policy shifts since I was active. Documenting and addressing issues with the tools currently on the toolforge (aka WMF labs).
I would like to help, and I believe that my contributions would be useful, but I refuse to have anything to do with Arbcom. See Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard/Archive 35#I believe that I am owed an apology. -- Guy Macon ( talk) 17:19, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
I have opened a discussion related to the above appeal at Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard/Archive 35#A related aside. Comments by others are welcome there. Thank you.-- John Cline ( talk) 14:57, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
I find some of his tool useful even today. Is the suggestion that after 5 years all blocks and restrictions be lifted so he has a clean start? I'd favor that. 5 years is a very long punishment indeed. Legacypac ( talk) 15:12, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
In the time he has been blocked, kids who did not exist then are in Kindergarten. Rather than having him appeal, what about a group of interested editors together go to ANi and start a proposal to "reinstate beta with no restrictions on a clean statt basis" or some other better wording. If four or five editors cosign the proposal it will fly. Legacypac ( talk) 20:55, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
User:Δ, regarding Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Checking some sockpuppet cats, would you like me to challenge any of them, or are they valid? (Note that we are mostly talking about accounts blocked in 2008 and 2009). -- Guy Macon ( talk) 06:33, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
Δ, At Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Δ/2017 Advisory RFC I have advocated a complete lifting of all restrictions on you. The consensus seems to be going towards lifting the ban but leaving some restrictions in place for another six months.
My question is a simple one, and I apologize for having to ask it, but are you going to hang me up to dry? Looking at the reactions of a minority of those who have commented on the RfC, I can confidently predict that your every edit will be scrutinized and that there will be complaints even if you do everything right (and many more complaints if you don't). It will be a huge temptation to respond in ways that will be used against you. You will be reported for minor infractions that would be ignored if I did them. And if you respond with even a hint of incivility or stray too close to whatever limits they impose your enemies will turn on me and say "See? You vouched for him, and look what happened!". Please, tell me that you understand and will not make me regret any of this.
Yes, I know that it is unfair holding you to a stricter standard than anyone else, but you need to be squeaky clean for at least six months. You need to use the preview button every time and carefully look for errors. You need to write neutral edit summaries, and you need to do that on every edit. And in many cases you need to ignore accusations and let someone else deal with them if they are false accusations. Please tell me that I am not going to look like a fool.
Again, I apologize for the tone of this post, but I had to ask. -- Guy Macon ( talk) 04:57, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
The RfC has been posted. Please comment at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#RfC: Advisory RfC concerning Betacommand.
THIS IS A DRAFT! PLEASE COMMENT SO WE CAN IMPROVE IT! -- Guy Macon ( talk) 07:01, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
I am about to give you the exact words from Arbcom, but before your read them, please read Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Betacommand 3/Evidence for the other side of the story. A significant percentage of the community thought that it was Arbcom who was in the wrong. (You see a lot less of this since Arbcom statrted sanctioning users for presenting evidence that they don't want to hear. [1])
Here are the exact words from the Arbcom case:
Here is a list of the restrictions, again quoting Arbcom:
Then, in the 2012 decision, Arbcom said
...leading to the block and the promise (not kept, as far as I can tell) to "present this plan to the community for review and comment prior to any modification of Betacommand's ban" after a year. -- Guy Macon ( talk) 00:03, 22 September 2017 (UTC)