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User:Colonies Chris, a party to the current ArbCom "date-unlinking" case, has been blocked by the trainee clerk on the case, User:Tiptoety, for allegedly breaking a temporary injunction issued by ArbCom on 13 January. This raises three issues concerning both tenets of natural justice ("Everyone is entitled to a hearing" and "Justice must be seen to be done"). I'm sure that ArbCom is keen to adhere to these tenets, as a judicial body that—by its own policy—pays service to real-world legal principles.
I believe it would be proper to (a) reverse the block and to allow Colonies Chris the opportunity to argue the case openly, here, in good faith, and (b) investigate Kendrick7's behaviour in this respect. Tony (talk) 03:32, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
The block looks fine to me. There's some pretty clear testing of limits going on here. Administrators are like the Highway Patrol; they certainly aren't going to catch every speeder, nor is that expected of them. Risker ( talk) 10:43, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
Let’s look at just one of your edits. Your edit to Cayman Islands to link to the 1503 article did nothing more than create yet another Treasure hunt link that takes readers to an article which has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with either the Cayman Islands nor Christopher Columbus other than the fact that there is the one entry there about Columbus stumbling across the Cayman Islands in 1503, which the reader already knew before they clicked on the link. There is precious little in the 1503 article that even deals with the topic of “Island”.
We link not “because we can”, but because there is topical and germane material in a related article that could enhance the reader’s understanding of the subject, better prepare them for their studies elsewhere, and ensure they will be conversant with someone skilled in the subject of the Cayman Islands. Unless you are linking the year 1589 in our Trivia article, which (curiously) is a year that is not linked, these links you are making are next to worthless and just desensitize readers to the links that truly have value.
BTW, since the year 1589 in the Trivia article would enhance a reader’s understanding of trivia, be my guest to link it; I don’t mind at all. Greg L ( talk) 00:12, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
Knowing the way Colonies Chris works, I do not believe he violated the injunction in any way. I would not be at all surprised that the blocking admin saw the edit summaries and panicked. Having looked at all his edits of 6 March, very few edits actually involve dates, and those which do have an overwhelming amount of other improvements such as orthograph and overlinking ameliorations. The only conclusion any reasonable editor would reach is that there has obviously not been any "mass delinking of dates". The block makes me wonder if this is yet another trigger-happy admin acting without either careful research of the "problematic edits" or a proper warning posted on AE or the user's talk page. It further makes me wonder whether any of the parties to this dispute are actually allowed do any editing at all. The admin concerned should immediately review his/her action with a view to restating Chris' right to go about not violating the injunction. - Posted on behalf of User:Ohconfucius. Tiptoety talk 22:22, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
First let me start by saying that I apologize I was unable to respond to this earlier. Right as Tony1 posted to my talk page I was walking out the door to go to work, and upon coming home early this morning took advantage of the time to get some much needed sleep. My reason for saying this is to 1. explain why I did not respond earlier, and 2. to reinforce that I am human (needing sleep and all) and am prone to mistakes, not a robot who is 100% fair in every situation as I truly think “fairness” is different to each party involved and to each side of the dispute, and have not devoted my life to editing Wikipedia.
Now, to address Tony1’s comments above:
Tiptoety talk 23:06, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
:"Because I was slow to respond to peoples concerns, and was not made aware of this until you had stopped linking dates a block would be viewed as purely punitive here".
So your slowness to respond is your excuse for acting in a totally biassed way? And because Kendrick has stopped his breaching since I notified him of this section (as a courtesy)? Pffff, why wouldn't he?
And the fact that Colonies Chris's actions were part of a much larger article-fixing program, in which many many other improvements were made to the articles, yet Kendrick blatantly visits articles to relink dates alone? You just pass over that, do you? I think it's disgusting. Absolutely disgusting.very disappointing.
Tony
(talk) 02:07, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
I am reviewing the date (de-)linkings of both user:Colonies Chris and user:Kendrick7. As the clerk action of blocking user:Colonies Chris has been called into question, I have reviewed that first.
user:Colonies Chris was clearly aware of the injunction as he was formally notified by clerk Ryan [6]( archive)
I've looked back as far as the 4th, when there were 36 edits followed by 23 edits on the 5th in the same editing session. It was an AWB run of 59 conversions of Concepción Province-> Concepción Province, Peru and Juarez->Juárez. I have grouped them into
He delinked half of the pages, and of these 92 edits done with AWB, only 2 edits left any dynamic date elements linked. It is also worth noting that I saw one of the automated date delinks broke the page. As a result, the block for 24 hrs is extremely light, and he should have been blocked for much longer for flagrantly ignoring the injunction. And to those crying about the injunction being vague or misunderstood, the proper way to handle that would be to not do any date delinking until you were confident that it wouldnt break the injunction. It is possible to not do any date delinking to be extra sure; Colonies Chris only needs to turn off the date delinking rules in his AWB config in order to avoid further problems.
My intention is to now review Kendrick recent actions. If I am needlessly distracted here due to this review of Colonies Chris recent edits, I may not conclude my review of Kendrick actions tonight, in which case you will have yourself to blame if I also dont get it done tomorrow due to work. John Vandenberg ( chat) 10:04, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
One thing I think all concerned parties agree on is that the current situation — with anons (and editors who have specified "no preference") seeing an inconsistent mix of date formats within a single article — is bad. If people could agree to just fix formats within an article, and not link/de-link any dates (just leave all the date linking as-is) then I think that would actually be acceptable to everyone involved. Could the injunction be modified to apply only to changing the link status of dates, and to allow date edits that simply fix format? Or would that be too hard to enforce, since people could bury their linking/de-linking in a sea of format edits? -- Sapphic ( talk) 18:05, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
Let us make one thing very clear: enforcement of the injunction is left to the judgment of administrators in general, and that includes clerks (who are both familiar with the current injunctions and with the case background and thus are likely to be able to do the enforcement).
That means that, if in the administrator's judgment, the injunction has been violated by someone who is aware of it — and named parties are certainly reasonably presumed to be — then it is entirely appropriate to stop the violation with a swift block. This does not mean that any one administrator is able to see all violations, or that some putative "due process" has been violated because some have been caught and some have not. An unblock can be requested through the usual channels if the editor feels this is an error.
If you are unhappy that you have been caught violating the injunction and someone else hasn't, there is a simple solution that will leave everyone happy: don't violate the injunction to begin with; that guarantees you will not be blocked over it. — Coren (talk) 03:41, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
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Dabomb87 — [106] -- Sapphic ( talk) 02:02, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
At the very least, the block should be reversed immediately. You were wrong. Tony (talk) 05:26, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
This is beyond ridiculous. These kinds of blocks, and much more importantly, these kinds of vindictive hostile reports, must stop immediately. The "injunction", if handled in this way, is evidently creating much more damage and bad blood than it could ever prevent. Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:25, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
(Copied from AN)_ The edit in question by Dabomb is [107]. Dabomb had been commenting on the arbitration enforcement page, and so was aware that the very idea of delinking dates was under dispute (how could he not know?). Thus I agree with jehochman that the edit summary of that edit is provocative: "delinking dates and making dates the right format: this is a featured article and therefore must comply with all MOS guidelines".
The question whether that MoS guideline has agreement is well known to be disputed, especially by Dabomb, who has been discussing whether to place a "disputed" tag on it. For Dabomb to refer to that MoS page as if it is controlling when he/she knows that it is disputed is unlikely to help resolve the dispute, and more likely to irk those on the other side. It's a classic power move (and it does not build rapport with editors on the other side of the arbitration case).
Moreover, Dabomb had not previously edited the page in question, and made no other changes to it. I agree that if someone were to delink a date while making significant changes to an article, that would not violate the injunction. But to arrive at a page simply to change date linking isn't on, and Dabomb reasonably could be expected to know this.
If all editors would simply not change date linking styles until the arbitration case is settled, that would resolve the issue of blocks such as these. — Carl (CBM · talk) 11:50, 2009-3-11 (UTC)
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This edit is not only POV-pushing, it also has totally failed verification as Talk:Parapsychology#Utrecht University clearly shows. Why should we allow such behavior at featured articles? Per this warning, it is clear that this user is aware that such advocacy is not tolerated. There have been enough warnings. It's time to start doing something about problematic editors. Please. ScienceApologist ( talk) 20:42, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
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Given that on his talk page Jehochman has dredged up the long settled "sockpuppet of everyone" allegations in response to my request for an explanation of his action, I request that the completely over the top action be reversed. I am not a sockpuppet of anyone and this through the back door revenge ban for what has happened to scienceapologist is really out of order. I mean, Utrecht university is a major world university, as is Edinburgh, and both have/had parapsychology units. Can that factual information really be so out there as to warrant a lifetime topic can from the topic of my main interest. I feel there is no justification for this action or anything like it. Landed little marsdon ( talk) 22:08, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
I would have no problem if the ban was just from that article for a time but that topic area: ufos, cryptozoology, psi is my primary area of interest and I have no real expertise in many other areas except those relating to my professional life and i deal with that all day. I ask again, where are the problem edits that necessitate a total subject area ban. Compared with the outrageous stuff i've seen that has gone unchecked from a different perspective it's hard to believe that any kind of case could be made under which this would look fair. Landed little marsdon ( talk) 00:12, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
I've cited it ad nauseum. It's the survey cited in the article. The survey of 1100 college professors. The one published in new scientist. Are you seriously claiming that i need to do more than this. Wtf would you like. Landed little marsdon ( talk) 01:32, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
Here's a completely ridiculous and unsourced edit pushing an outrageous pov far far worse than anything i've done. I look forward to the topic ban which demonstrates that my conspiracy theory that these bans are being used to manipulate content is merely a fantasy. http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Parapsychology&diff=255930313&oldid=255274376 Landed little marsdon ( talk)
Jehochman and mastcell make great play of my net detriment to the project. A cursory glance at my contribs would reveal that i played a significant part in the resolution of the naming problem on the list of pseudosciences article. That is, in only a few weeks i helped bring about a solution to a problem that seems to have been going for several years. But don't worry, never let something so mundane as the truth interfere with the stories you need to tell yourselves to justify your action. Landed little marsdon ( talk) 02:52, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
I've been editing alongside LLM for a while now, and I'm sorry to say that this topic ban is justified based on that account's pattern of editing. LLM and ScienceApologist, whose topic ban I consider equally justified, are two sides of the same coin. Both have a pattern of making edits that promote a point of view, without inadequate sourcing. Both have a disruptive influence on talk pages, where they propound their own unique interpretations of policy and guidelines that happen to suit their purposes. Both are subject to flurries of poor editing when confronted with statements that seem to contradict their positions - most recently in opposition to each other in an edit war on Parapsychology. The only difference is, LLM's edits promote fringe science, and SA's attack fringe science. I'd much rather see both editors learn to follow WP:NPOV and to help to promote a constructive editing environment. But in the absence of that, the present approach of blocking/banning seems the only option available to the admins. The only concern I would note is that SA has not been banned from editing talk pages, whereas it sounds like LLM has been. It would be good to see more consistency there. I would be happy to see LLM able to edit talk pages. If LLM can present solid reasoning on talk pages based on reliable sources and the relevant policies and guidelines, I for one would be happy to make suggested edits, just as I am with SA, and I imagine many other editors would be too. Apologies if I'm commenting out of place here, I'm new to this page and happy to refactor if I have the protocol wrong. Ryan Paddy ( talk) 03:18, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
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You will need to file this properly if you want some action taken on it. Kevin ( talk) 02:24, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
In this edit user:Cerejota calls Brewcrewer a "dick" [108]. It seems to me that, at minimum, Cerejota needs to be cautioned for resorting to personal insults of the talk page of on article under Arbitration enforcement. In this context such language is inflammatory. Malcolm Schosha ( talk) 00:02, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Apparent complete failure to speak Bureaucrat [109] effectively on my part. Sorry, but I can't do it, and apparently lack the capacity. Malcolm Schosha ( talk) 12:34, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
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Jehochman has blocked Dabomb87 for 24 hours. I asked him here to explain the rationale for the block. It is my understanding (which may be in error) that the block is because Dabomb87 made a single edit involving de-linking. It is also my understanding that the parties to the ArbCom are currently enjoined from mass de-linking. Jehochman explained on his talk page that he “will not tolerate badgering from multiple parties every time I try to enforce the rules.” He further instructed interested parties to come here to discuss any concerns. Ergo my question: what rule? Shouldn’t he cite the rule he is enforcing? As I am not aware of a new rule further enjoining the parties from any linking or delinking, the original injunction applies. And in that injunction, the term “mass delinking” meant—and still means—bot delinking or manual delinking in similar quantities. If Dabomb87 really made a single edit (an assumption), then what rule does Jehochman think he is enforcing? Greg L ( talk) 05:27, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
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[110]. This isn't the first comment he's removed that contained relevant evidence about his behavior, which is important because substantial segments of the community, as was apparently planned, believe that SA was blocked for merely making spelling corrections; here, though, he selectively edits my Talk comment to make it into an insult, and the edit summary is likewise gratuitously pugnacious, (removing comments by a user who ought to be banned.) Previously, he removed another comment as soapboxing, but left response to that comment standing. I've been blocked, I know what it's like, and if I had behaved like this, attacking other editors from my Talk page instead of dealing with allowed business, I'd have fully expected to become unable to edit my Talk page. I conclude that is exactly what he expects, and I also conclude that we should oblige him, his block should be extended, even in advance of the pending decision, and probably the page should be blanked as a courtesy, and protected, to prevent further disruption and distraction. This is certainly not the outcome I sought.
(Editors can normally remove material from their own Talk page, but not to distort the meaning of a comment, but this right also may become somewhat restricted when it comes to material relating to the block. I know that when I attempted to simply refactor my Talk page while I was blocked, so that I could edit in a section without constantly running into edit conflicts, I was restricted as not having the right to do that. I've seen removal of material by blocked editors reverted many times. But, then again, I and they are not ScienceApologist.)
I brought this here because it relates to the restrictions on SA. -- Abd ( talk) 03:27, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
Xiutwel has been permanently banned from 9/11 related pages ( diff and sanction log). Earlier today he made an to the article on Zeitgeist, the Movie, a documentary noted for its advocacy of 9/11 conspiracy theories. I request that an appropriate sanction be enacted. Skinwalker ( talk) 00:20, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
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On Ronnotel's recommendation, I'm continuing here a discussion from WP:AN/I#Orthomolecular psychiatry and Orthomolecular medicine.
First of all, I wish to thank and commend OrangeMarlin for collaboratively accepting the result of the RfC and discussion and beginning the difficult work of actually editing the article, which I hope to find time to participate in this weekend.
This dispute over article versus redirect at Orthomolecular psychiatry has involved several bouts of editwarring, necessitating page protection March 2–11. There was a discussion and an RfC, closed by uninvolved admin Ruslik, who further clarified that close here. Given the current situation, unless there is a further discussion (but see link 1A) involving merge tags, sufficient time (e.g. 5 days) and a clear consensus (e.g. acknowledged by all participants or closed by an uninvolved admin etc., not declared by one side over the objections of the other side), I consider converting the article to a redirect under current conditions to be disruptive; I expand on that in my last paragraph here: 1A.
I disagree with Keepcalmandcarryon's argument that there was an established merge. ScienceApologist tried to redirect the page in November, but was reverted a total of 3 times by 2 other editors. It then stayed in article form until February, indicating wiki-consensus for article form; no such wiki-consensus has been demonstrated for a redirect; any redirects have been reverted in less than 24 hours except when the page was protected. The discussion (before the RfC) which Keepcalmandcarryon is using to attempt to justify a redirect took place with no merge tags on the articles as far as I'm aware, started (except for comments in November) on 27 or 28 February; Keepcalmandcarryon redirected the page on 1 March and was reverted; remember that February has only 28 days. That discussion included clearly expressed opposition to, as well as support for, the merge, and all of the participants there also participated in the later discussion mentioned by Ruslik in the RfC close.
Note that Ruslik's close did not merely state "no consensus for merge" (uninvolved editors), but also stated "the results of the above discussion are clearly against the merge" (involved editors).
I'm bringing this here because editwarring over whether to redirect the page or not is continuing, and because Keepcalmandcarryon is continuing to argue at the AN/I discussion that redirecting the article is appropriate, even after the close by an uninvolved admin. Both Verbal and Keepcalmandcarryon have redirected the page ( Orthomolecular psychiatry) after that close, after the further clarification by the closer, and after my warning in link 1A that I would consider such behaviour disruptive.
I call on all participants to accept the result of the RfC and discussion as closed by an uninvolved administrator and to use established discussion fora rather than editwarring if they wish to continue to pursue the idea of merging the articles. I would appreciate decisive statements by AE administrators to help ensure that this situation is resolved by discussion in appropriate fora rather than by editwarring. (involved editor) ☺ Coppertwig ( talk) 17:56, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
This discussion has been moved back by II to the original AN/I thread. ☺ Coppertwig ( talk) 19:05, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
I had to press a few emergency buttons today on Balkanian`s word ( talk · contribs) and an IP user (today at 85.74.200.102 ( talk · contribs · WHOIS), who were wildly edit-warring on two pages in parallel. Please see follow-up discussion with both users on their talk pages. I slapped a revert limitation on the IP user (coupled with an injunction to edit only logged-in in future), and I would like to see the same revert limitation on B.w., as he has shown a rather persistent tendency to revert-war. Recognising I'm probably too "involved" content-wise with him, I'd like to bring this proposal here for review. My suggestion would be 1rv/24, coupled with an injunction I like to use in such cases: every revert to be preceded by explanation on talk, and waiting period of 3 hours between explanation and revert to allow for prior discussion. All to be logged under WP:ARBMAC. Thoughts? Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:26, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
I request a warning or remedy for Xx236 ( talk · contribs). The respective cases are Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Digwuren and Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Piotrus 2. The area of dispute is Eastern Europe. Though not a party, Xx236 has participated in Piotrus2 and thus should know about the respective rulings and cautions.
I find this behaviour unacceptable, harmful, and constructive discussion impossible. Skäpperöd ( talk) 15:37, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Two phrases quoted by Skäpperöd aren't invented by me, they were written by other users on my pages in Wikipedias, I understand them as hostile to me, so I preserved them. Is there any law here demanding cancelling some texts from my page? I'm sorry but I'm not aware of it. Xx236 ( talk) 09:11, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Lokyz ( talk · contribs) is subject to the following remedy: "Should Lokyz make any comment deemed by an administrator to have been incivil, a personal attack, or an assumption of bad faith, he may be blocked by any administrator as provided in the enforcement ruling below". I find the following comment by Lokyz, directed at me, to be quite incivil: "And are you really trying to perceive us, that your outrageous OR pretending to be peer review on a published scientific source is enough to ignore facts, just because you don't like it? ... how long this insolent removal of references, bashing scholars or simply denying the facts will continue"? That comments also builds a straw men argument accusing me of a BLP violation. As the arbitration has found such violations of NPA, AGF and overall CIV to be highly conductive to create bad editing atmoshpere, and has singled out Lokyz as one of the users responsible for making such comments, I'd like for the review of this comment and for measures to ensure that it such behavior is not repeated. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 21:40, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Arbcom case: Sathya Sai Baba 2
Over the last while, there have been some unproductive edits on Sathya Sai Baba. Radiantenergy ( talk · contribs) did an informal poll, in which editors Andries ( talk · contribs), Jayen466 ( talk · contribs) agreed with him to revert from this version of the page 14 months back to a 2007 version. I, in addition to White adept ( talk · contribs), disagreed with the revert, because it contained many primary sources which are at odds of principle 2 (in terms of primary sourcing), and also on the basis that Radiantenergy had made no effort to fix the perceived problems in the article space. Radiantenergy then reverted back to a 2007 revision, with an edit summary of "As per the consensus among involved editors I am reverting the article to the December 2007 version as the current version has broken many of the WP:BLP rules. Please see the talk page for details". When I then queried him/her for specific BLP violations, I received none. Then White Adept stepped in and reverted to an earlier revision. In his/her edit summary, White adept assumed bad faith: "Fixed revert by possible sock radiantenergy. You are covreing all well sourced material in favour of propaganda - absolute proaganda. I hope editors would pay attention to this."
What we need here are clear guidelines that will ensure productive editing of this article, with more experienced editors or administrators ready to kick into action when there is a conflict. At the moment we have polarized views that are being constantly removed and then placed back in to the article when reverted. There are also considerable number of single-purposed IP editors (see [120], [121], [122], [123], [124], [125], [126], [127], [128], etc) and throwaway accounts on the article (see [129], [130], [131], [132], [133], [134], [135], [136], [137], etc) so semi-protection is a consideration. Remedy 2 states that the article should seek to use better sources and citation style, which doesn't seem to be happening at the moment. ← Spidern → 14:18, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
I said on the Sai Baba talk page that if Radiantenergy and Andries agreed that the previous version was better, I would endorse their decision. This was based on my reading of the previous arbcom findings, rather than a detailed study of the article version to be reverted to (I am currently too busy elsewhere ;-) to devote much time to the Sai Baba article). I know from the 2006 and 2007 arbcom decisions that Andries is a committed Sai Baba opponent, while Radiantenergy seemed to be more favourably disposed towards Sai Baba. I thought if two people at opposite ends of the spectrum of opinion agree that the article has gone so pear-shaped that it is better to return to an older version, then it is most likely so. (However, I thought that the video passages recently added were probably a useful addition to the article and should be reinstated after reverting, if their copyright status works out.)
There have been two recent BLP/N threads on Sai Baba, one initiated by Spidern, and one by me. There was another BLP/N thread in January. There has been a recent RfC; RegentsPark ( talk · contribs) commented that he thought there were still BLP issues. As for the socking allegations, there may be something to that, in both cases. I alerted Jehochman to them a while ago but didn't hear back. Jayen 466 17:52, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Mere unproductive and counterproductive edits are not a clear violation of these arbcom cases. So I think this thread is off topic here. (Some edits after the arbcom case introduced factual mistakes that remained uncorrected for years and nobody seemed to care in spite of my repeated complaints on the talk page to which nobody replied.) It is clear for me that the article did not improve in any version after the latest arbcom decision. So going back to the arbcom instead of this thread seems a better idea. Andries ( talk) 06:44, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Hi. I've come across something that I feel was/is being done a bit surreptiously regarding birth/death templates, and after a comment from someone else regarding it, I've come to the conclusion that besides the issue of essentially misrepresenting what was supposedly a consensus, manipulating a change to the MOS and arbitrary change to biography infoboxes based on that, it also seems to me that this has violated the temporary injunction against automatically delinking dates at WP:Requests for arbitration/Date delinking#Temporary injunction. I outlined why I think this is effectively a violation here. I'd appreciate input and any suggestions for what steps I should take regarding what has gone on. It's been suggested to open an WP:RfC about it, but I'm not sure that is the solution for someone having manipulated and avoid process for initiating change, even though it may be unintentional, but I do think misrepresentation was involved in doing so. The editor who did this wants me to take it back to MOSNUM, although it was apparent that the original discussion wasn't so much of a discussion, much less a clear consensus, than it was a forum for him to keep pushing his idea. There were 5 or 6 persons involved and never did I see a clear consensus endorsing his templates, much less a change to the MOS or implementing what is essentially widespread change undercover. What this does by having accomplished the changes made means that unless an editor adds a special parameter to the editor's new template, there is no option for date linking to re-implemented in infobox templates without changing each one individually. Meanwhile, the older template, which applies to over 660,000 articles, can be changed back to linking by adjusting the template itself. In any case, by having slipped in this change to the MOS and infoboxes, which means the templates should be updated now, he is effectively accomplishing wide delinking in what I think is not in the spirit of the injunction. Any suggestions/help would be greatly appreciated. Wildhartlivie ( talk) 05:33, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
{{
birth-date}}
and {{
death-date}}
that Wildhartlivie mentions neither link nor delink. As I have stated frequently in multiple venues, I have no opinion either way on the link delink or autoformatting issues. I have been adding the new date templates to articles that were not using a birth or death template and my practice has been that if the article used a date link for the birth or death date then when adding the new templates, I leave the date link as it was, using the right hand parameter of the templates as described in the docs. If it had no date link, I don't add one. Here are representative examples:
(undent) Not prior to today. I have said it all along. "Date linking (aka "user preference date formatting") could be trivially restored to both the old and new template families if the community reversed its decision on that matter." [142] - J JMesserly ( talk) 17:40, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
Ever since the March 2008 Episodes and Characters 2 discussion, we have sought to come to some consensus on fictional elements and notability on WP. For various reasons the efforts have failed but not due to disruption, but more narrowing and narrowing the problem. We've had two RFCs to see about a version of WP:FICT and two additional RFCs to assert the nature of WP:N. We're still working at it, though now seems to be a matter of finer points. It's still a struggle, but I think we're a lot farther along than a year ago.
That said: a recent effect to discuss the merging of South Park articles (certain not in a fait accompli approach that TTN was warned about) has exploded again at Talk:List of South Park episodes, spreading to Wikipedia talk:Television episodes and WT:N. While it should be assumed that all editors (uninvolved or not) should be aware of the second remedy, involved editors need to be aware they should not be arising any issues, per The parties are instructed to cease engaging in editorial conflict and to work collaboratively to develop a generally accepted and applicable approach to the articles in question. They are warned that the Committee will look very unfavorably on anyone attempting to further spread or inflame this dispute. If you read these disputed pages, it is clear that User:Pixelface is treading the boundards on this, as the user refuses to compromise to a solution instead insisting that certain guidelines are invalid despite their recent confirmation of acceptance; there may be others that are also inflaming the situation but they are not listed in the involved parties, thus a warning there may be appropriate.
This is further evidenced that during this past year, Pixelface has been a subject of one Wikiquette alert (Disclaimer: I was the one that issued this in regards to their combative responses during a FICT RFC), and a Request for comment (Disclaimer: Again, I initiated that RFC/U, thought that was prompted by an WP:ANI suggestion to disruptive editing) which was closed with no significant resolution. As a result of this latest discussion, another Wikiquette alert has been issued based on his incivility to other editors. Now, one consideration that came up during the RFC/U on Pixelface was the issue of other editors baiting him into such behavior, which obviously should not happen. That said, Pixelface's responses certainly are not merited based on the input of those he replies to.
While Pixeface can provide valuable input, the approach he is taken of late is not appropriate for any such discussion, and some type of action seems to be needed to reign in this behavior as to allow a more rationale discussion towards consensus, as the previous WQA and RFC/U have not changed things. If Pixelface is refusing to move from his position and will not compromise, then this is a clear violation of the ArbCom decision and action needs to be taken.
I would think it would be worthwhile to validate if any of the other participants of the E&C case are in similar violations, but of those listed, the only one that seems to be involved actively is User:Collectonian, and I don't see any signs of incivility. And it would also be worthwhile to evaluate non-involved editors as well, and issue any warnings per the ArbCom decision. -- MASEM ( t) 20:49, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Violation of temporary injunction in the Date delinking arbitration case. Diffs follow:
Dismas ( talk · contribs) was previously warned of this injunction and has continued to delink dates despite this (this is just a sampling of what I found in the contribs, there may be more). — Locke Cole • t • c 15:52, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
To keep people from running afoul of this injunction perhaps it would be best if an administrator blanked User:Lightmouse/monobook.js/script.js and protected it? There's no use for this script other than to violate this injunction. — Locke Cole • t • c 02:17, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I think these discretionary sanctions should be applied to Russavia ( talk · contribs) as he continue attacking other editors. A month ago he said the following:
Please see this diff"You are an Estonian editor who hates Russia and are here to help advocate your hate-filled POV on those subjects.....You are a nobody, and as a nobody people could care less what your opinions on anything....Digwuren if you don't like it, then don't let your ass hit the door on the way out, because your stalking, your removal of information without edit summaries is unacceptable, and I will continue to argue for their inclusion with editors who aren't harrassing me such as yourself"
He has been warned after this incident. However, he continue doing precisely the same. He declares others to be "serial stalkers", he declares arguments by others to be "bullshit", "civility be damn". He tells to another user (Your reasons) are "utter bullshit", and so on.
Today, he makes personal offenses again. In the last diff he again calls Digwuren "nobody", although he replies to a completely different question asked by another user. Please note that Russavia was already listed in these sanctions for harassment. Biophys ( talk) 18:35, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
I clearly asked Digwuren and Martintg to stay away from my talk page. This was ignored by Digwuren who continued to troll, and was also ignored by Martintg who also continued to troll. They keep pushing and pushing and pushing and trolling and trolling and trolling, what exactly kind of response does one think they are going to get. And Biophys joined in on the harrassment/trolling as well (except Biophys admitted his stalking). What exactly does one have to do around here to get it thru people's skulls? And then there's this continued discussion on Digwuren's talk page - people are more than welcome to discuss my edits here on WP, but the constant accusations of meatpuppetry by Biophys are not helping, particularly after he was shown to have been so far off base it wasn't funny, and even when you he was shown wrong he still continued (note, I had to demand that CU be done in that case, and the admin obviously saw that the only way to stop the constant egregious accusations was to do what I asked). PLEASE, will someone make this rubbish stop!!!! I'm here to help create encyclopaedic content, not to be the subject and target of Biophys' and other editors delusions or whatever.
And I will say right here, right now, I could not care one iota if people have a problem with me uploading and utilising photos from Kremlin.ru (this is being discussed on Digwuren's talk page at the link just above) -- it is the right of editors to hate Putin and Medvedev, hey it's even the right of editors to believe that Putin's a paedophile and the like (as much as I think that says a lot about people who think it), but here on WP I don't care one bit what your POV is, because your POV is meaningless; it's the POV of reliable sources that matters. Yes, I managed to get permission to use a fantastic resource, and yes, I have uploaded thousands of photos. There is not a single reason that these photos should not be uploaded, we have the permission to use them, and by making them available on Commons, and categorised the way I have done it, this resource is readily available to the entire internet community, not just English Wikipedia; and if people don't like it, then ignore it, is it hurting you one little bit? But because one is interested in helping to develop this project, which is worth it (the egregious harrassment is not though!), I have all types of accusations levelled against me. And I don't care that Biophys (or anyone else for that matter) finds Koni (dog) hard to swallow, I'm not here to engage in advocacy or to please other editors, but this is just one of my DYKs, and this particular one was obviously interesting enough that it was the 8th most popular DYK in December 2008 with some 14,500 views. And you know what? There's not a fact tag in sight (everything I add to WP articles is meticulously sourced), there's no POV pushing (hell, I even included what I think are ridiculous claims from Russian opposition members, but did so in the interest of NPOV), etc, and people find it hard to swallow? The only thing I have to say about that is GOOD! Because this is how articles are supposed to be written; coherent prose, fully sourced, NPOV. And yes, this article wasn't something I thought of creating if it weren't for me finding photos from Kremlin.ru and noticing several of them amongst my uploads. Here is an instance that my uploading of photos to Commons has resulted in my writing an article and the project is better off for it; I challenge my detractors to find an uninvolved editor who would say otherwise. For an example of another instance, here's a work in progress which was started by myself due to myself uploading a photo of Lyudmila Putina; ask anyone who grew up in Eastern Europe if they know this guy, they will likely answer yes, and we don't have an article yet on him...but I am changing that shortly. It irks me to no end that I need to explain my existence on this project to the community based upon wishful thinking of a small group of editors who are, and should be, worried that my presence brings a degree of rationality to the project, and that often I have to explain every single edit (in which one editor calls "debate", like we are a debating society, and the best arguer wins) due to severe article ownership issues.
Also, note, Colchicum who has a lot to say at Digwuren's talk page, has referred to myself as RuSSavia ( SS anyone? I sure hope that Colchicum isn't calling me a Nazi or accusing me of harbouring Nazi sympathies) on a talk page at which editors had problems with User:Offliner (clearly) improving (the improvement of fringe POV articles needs to be protected at any cost!) and I asked him to refer to my username as written (the troll comment is in regards to this, the edit relates to the removal of sources of a non-reliable source without attribution.) He repeats the RuSSavia several days later on the talk page of a user who is currently blocked for edit warring and sockpuppeting. Again I asked him to stop with his trolling use of SS in my username -- I didn't run around feigning all sorts of rubbish and appealing to admins. Then on the 2008 South Ossetia war talk page Colchicum refers to HistoricWarrior007 as HystronicWanker. HistoricWarrior posts this on Colchicum's talk page, and I also post bringing to Colchicum's attention his comments to me. So, I hope that Biophys, Digwuren et al will all excuse me whilst I choke on their false sense of moral outrage, because just where is the outrage at those personal attacks by one of their pals on myself and another editor, and demands for discretionary sanctions? There is none, but funnily enough Digwuren's question is now being answered here, and what can be seen is trolling/harrassment on their part. Also especially telling is the reference to a discussion on my talk page regarding stub sorting for WP:RUSSIA -- who could have thought that stub sorting on MY TALK PAGE could also lead to more accusations and the like -- and one has to put up with this day in--day out.
I have apologised on Moreschi's talk page to Digwuren, I'm not going to do so again. What these guys are really uppity about is that Moreschi hasn't blocked me. It appears Moreschi isn't active at the moment, but if he were, I do not regard Moreschi as a neutral admin in this area. Note even Colchicum is asking where Moreschi is. I have seen Moreschi give out some justified blocks to editors, but I have also seen him give out some "iffy" ones (to other editors), and I have seen him blocking people for aggressive POV-pushing. Imagine my surprise, when I ask him to counsel two editors, one of whom expressed his desire to use a particular photo because it was the "most grotesque" (in his opinion), he fobs off the clear evidence of the article being used as a battleground to mock and disparage the subject. I've seen Moreschi indef block editors for less than that, and in this instance he is basically "So what". One editor in question has been blocked 3 times since then; twice for edit warring and once for block evasion (sockpuppetting). So I can see why they would want Moreschi's help. I don't have trust in Moreschi's ability to counsel editors in this area, let alone to block them, when he refuses to do anything about those clear battleground conditions. -- Russavia Dialogue 14:35, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
(o.d.) OK, this is obviously a pre-emption of a case I am in the process of filing at WP:RFA which can be seen in progress at User:Russavia/AE; head 'em off at the pass eh Biophys? There has been a systematic pattern of stalking and harrassment of edits by Biophys (subsided), but taken up by Digwuren and Martintg. To answer each of these points raised by Biophys:
If any admin is even going to touch this, I want the stalking looked at, I want Biophys' BLP violations sanctioned, I want Biophys' ownership of articles looked at, I want Biophys' tedious editing of articles looked, I want tedious refusal to answer questions looked at, I want the whole lot looked at, and look at the whole picture, and I've only just started with evidence here. Would you like to know more?. Because there is plenty more evidence which would be shown, which would put everything into some resemblance of perspective. -- Russavia Dialogue 21:03, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Some people might think from the above that I'm a particular target of User:Russavia. However, this is not so. For a particular example, consider this section. Russavia has unhelpfully labelled it "Martintg's POV-pushing". I do not need to tell the regular readers of this page that such titles are discouraged by the talkpage policy. It isn't a heat-of-a-moment thing, either: after removal, under the custom of WP:RPA, of the section, he restored it under a guise of "valid questioning", ironically, removing other comments in the process.
I'll try to resist the temptation to list other cases of bad temper here, but these are not isolated cases. Very unfortunate. Διγουρεν Εμπρος! 21:56, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Russavia only confirms his bad demeanor by blaming others and me of something that we never did. I never followed his edits with the purpose to create disruption or to harass him (that is what "wikistalking" means). To the contrary, I politely debated all issues with him in a hope that Russavia can change his behavior - like here yesterday. Unfortunately, this did not happen. Biophys ( talk) 22:11, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Let's take Ethnic cleansing of Georgians in Abkhazia. There's a major edit war over POV tagging, we have SkyBon and Alaexis (a longstanding pro-separatist editor, mainly Abkhazia and South Ossetia, I am familiar with) arrayed against a number of editors...
As far as I can see, this is Russavia's first (thwarted) POV battle with Biophys, and the likely start of bad editorial blood at least where Russavia was concerned. It's been downhill from there in terms of Russavia's collegiality. Russavia has become increasingly strident and accusatory of POV as they have apparently been bitten by the defend the Russian position at any cost against the anti-Russian hate-fest mongers. PetersV TALK 20:08, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
P.S. There's also Russavia pushing their POV by adding Abkhazia's flag to the Gallery of sovereign-state flags as well as South Ossetia's as soon as Russia recognized them. Russavia is now the arbiter of state sovereignty as well. There are more insidious changes as well, such as deleting and inserting inappropriate article categories, the list goes on. PetersV TALK 20:19, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
Coming soon. Martintg ( talk) 22:22, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
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Talk 13:22, 22 March 2009 (UTC)Russavia has made a personal attack against me, in relation to International recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, embodied in a section titled " Martintg's POV-pushing" (subsequently renamed Talk:International_recognition_of_Abkhazia_and_South_Ossetia#Russavia.27s_issues). In relation to this article Russavia makes a further unwarranted personal attack against myself, accusing me of being a " serial stalker", which I then asked him to tone down his incivility]. I've been interested in this and related articles since the so-called "South Ossetian War" last year [151].
This accusation of "Wikistalking" by Russavia is just an attempt to deflect attention from his incivility and is an example of the combative approach he has adopted. Russavia has created and edited many articles, often working twenty or more hours, up to 61 hours without a break according to one reports. Wannebe_kate shows some 24326 distinct pages articles edited by him, while the articles Russavia claims to have been "wikistalked" is a tiny handful, related mainly to Estonia, such as eSStonia and List_of_most_common_surnames#Estonia, however I have had a long involvement with Estonia-related articles, which I act as both recent-change-patroller and informal wiki-project Estonia co-ordinator since User:Sander Säde sadly left, using tools and watchlists to track changes.
To be fair, Russavia has made and is making a fine contribution, except for a very small number of articles where he comes across as a very combative and strident Russian nationalist (ironically he claims to be Australian), that other Russian editors are apparently embarrassed by his egregious POV pushing and do not want help him. It's almost has if there are two people sharing the one account, the reasonable editor making a great contribution and the ultra-nationalist edit warrior, perhaps that may explain the long edit sessions.
But I digress. Russiavia has proven to be too combative in his attitude and has been repeatedly warned about this excessive confrontationalism. I wouldn't like to see Russavia be blocked as he is a productive editor most of the time, but a selective topic restriction may be most effective way to reduce the unnecessary confrontation, incivility and personal attacks. I propose a restriction on articles related to Russian-Georgian war, Estonian-Russian relations and Alexander Litvenko. Others here can make other proposals. Martintg ( talk) 11:53, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
I would like to note that Russavia accused me of "paranoid nuttery" in the end of this diff he cited above. He is doing this to "prove" that he is a civil editor!. He simply fails to understand what polite behavior is. No mentioning that his accusation is false. Sorry people, but I am not crazy and very much capable of critical thinking as anyone with ISI citation index above 1000. I do not like any theories, unless such theories are firmly supported by facts. I created a couple of "conspiracy theory" articles (one of them Litvinenko assassination theories) merely to remove doubtful materials from main articles, and it were in fact Russavia and Offliner who included garbage (propaganda) "theories" in several articles, as correctly noted by Colchichum. Biophys ( talk) 05:15, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Jechochman provided the following arguments in support of Russavia: (1) R. has been provoked; (2) people who provided diffs about R. do not like him; and (3) this is all too complicated and needs intervention of Arbcom. All these arguments are hardly appropriate. Argument (1). No, even if R. was provoked (which I doubt), this does not justify his own incivility per WP:CIV. Argument (2). No, if the diffs clearly show misbehavior by Russavia (and they do), it does not really matter who and why provided these diffs. Argument (3). R. is welcome to try to prove that other users are at fault, but he is clearly a subject of immediate discretionary sanctions per a previous ArbCom ruling. He must be either placed under a civility parole or topic banned from editing anything related to Russian government - based on the diffs provided in the beginning of this AE and his obvious denial that he did anything wrong at all. Biophys ( talk) 12:03, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
The squabbling on this thread may not bode well for the future participation of editors involved. If you look carefully, you can see that I have warned each party: Biophys, not to game the rules or head-hunt for sanctions as an extension of editorial disputes; Marting and Digwuren, not to bait, harass or annoy Russavia; and Russavia, to maintain his cool and to respect WP:NPOV. If anybody takes my advice to heart, they should be fine. Each of you, your fate is in your own hands. Anybody who plays games like "I didn't hear you" or "that guy should be banned" or "I don't give a fuck about civility" will be sanctioned, next time. Hopefully I have made this very clear. Each of you, please go edit an article; preferably different articles. If you run into trouble with each other, avoid conflict. Instead, ask for help from uninvolved editors at low-drama venues like WP:WQA and WP:3O. (Click to see what those abbreviations mean). Thank you, good bye. Jehochman Talk 16:24, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User:Colonies Chris, a party to the current ArbCom "date-unlinking" case, has been blocked by the trainee clerk on the case, User:Tiptoety, for allegedly breaking a temporary injunction issued by ArbCom on 13 January. This raises three issues concerning both tenets of natural justice ("Everyone is entitled to a hearing" and "Justice must be seen to be done"). I'm sure that ArbCom is keen to adhere to these tenets, as a judicial body that—by its own policy—pays service to real-world legal principles.
I believe it would be proper to (a) reverse the block and to allow Colonies Chris the opportunity to argue the case openly, here, in good faith, and (b) investigate Kendrick7's behaviour in this respect. Tony (talk) 03:32, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
The block looks fine to me. There's some pretty clear testing of limits going on here. Administrators are like the Highway Patrol; they certainly aren't going to catch every speeder, nor is that expected of them. Risker ( talk) 10:43, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
Let’s look at just one of your edits. Your edit to Cayman Islands to link to the 1503 article did nothing more than create yet another Treasure hunt link that takes readers to an article which has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with either the Cayman Islands nor Christopher Columbus other than the fact that there is the one entry there about Columbus stumbling across the Cayman Islands in 1503, which the reader already knew before they clicked on the link. There is precious little in the 1503 article that even deals with the topic of “Island”.
We link not “because we can”, but because there is topical and germane material in a related article that could enhance the reader’s understanding of the subject, better prepare them for their studies elsewhere, and ensure they will be conversant with someone skilled in the subject of the Cayman Islands. Unless you are linking the year 1589 in our Trivia article, which (curiously) is a year that is not linked, these links you are making are next to worthless and just desensitize readers to the links that truly have value.
BTW, since the year 1589 in the Trivia article would enhance a reader’s understanding of trivia, be my guest to link it; I don’t mind at all. Greg L ( talk) 00:12, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
Knowing the way Colonies Chris works, I do not believe he violated the injunction in any way. I would not be at all surprised that the blocking admin saw the edit summaries and panicked. Having looked at all his edits of 6 March, very few edits actually involve dates, and those which do have an overwhelming amount of other improvements such as orthograph and overlinking ameliorations. The only conclusion any reasonable editor would reach is that there has obviously not been any "mass delinking of dates". The block makes me wonder if this is yet another trigger-happy admin acting without either careful research of the "problematic edits" or a proper warning posted on AE or the user's talk page. It further makes me wonder whether any of the parties to this dispute are actually allowed do any editing at all. The admin concerned should immediately review his/her action with a view to restating Chris' right to go about not violating the injunction. - Posted on behalf of User:Ohconfucius. Tiptoety talk 22:22, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
First let me start by saying that I apologize I was unable to respond to this earlier. Right as Tony1 posted to my talk page I was walking out the door to go to work, and upon coming home early this morning took advantage of the time to get some much needed sleep. My reason for saying this is to 1. explain why I did not respond earlier, and 2. to reinforce that I am human (needing sleep and all) and am prone to mistakes, not a robot who is 100% fair in every situation as I truly think “fairness” is different to each party involved and to each side of the dispute, and have not devoted my life to editing Wikipedia.
Now, to address Tony1’s comments above:
Tiptoety talk 23:06, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
:"Because I was slow to respond to peoples concerns, and was not made aware of this until you had stopped linking dates a block would be viewed as purely punitive here".
So your slowness to respond is your excuse for acting in a totally biassed way? And because Kendrick has stopped his breaching since I notified him of this section (as a courtesy)? Pffff, why wouldn't he?
And the fact that Colonies Chris's actions were part of a much larger article-fixing program, in which many many other improvements were made to the articles, yet Kendrick blatantly visits articles to relink dates alone? You just pass over that, do you? I think it's disgusting. Absolutely disgusting.very disappointing.
Tony
(talk) 02:07, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
I am reviewing the date (de-)linkings of both user:Colonies Chris and user:Kendrick7. As the clerk action of blocking user:Colonies Chris has been called into question, I have reviewed that first.
user:Colonies Chris was clearly aware of the injunction as he was formally notified by clerk Ryan [6]( archive)
I've looked back as far as the 4th, when there were 36 edits followed by 23 edits on the 5th in the same editing session. It was an AWB run of 59 conversions of Concepción Province-> Concepción Province, Peru and Juarez->Juárez. I have grouped them into
He delinked half of the pages, and of these 92 edits done with AWB, only 2 edits left any dynamic date elements linked. It is also worth noting that I saw one of the automated date delinks broke the page. As a result, the block for 24 hrs is extremely light, and he should have been blocked for much longer for flagrantly ignoring the injunction. And to those crying about the injunction being vague or misunderstood, the proper way to handle that would be to not do any date delinking until you were confident that it wouldnt break the injunction. It is possible to not do any date delinking to be extra sure; Colonies Chris only needs to turn off the date delinking rules in his AWB config in order to avoid further problems.
My intention is to now review Kendrick recent actions. If I am needlessly distracted here due to this review of Colonies Chris recent edits, I may not conclude my review of Kendrick actions tonight, in which case you will have yourself to blame if I also dont get it done tomorrow due to work. John Vandenberg ( chat) 10:04, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
One thing I think all concerned parties agree on is that the current situation — with anons (and editors who have specified "no preference") seeing an inconsistent mix of date formats within a single article — is bad. If people could agree to just fix formats within an article, and not link/de-link any dates (just leave all the date linking as-is) then I think that would actually be acceptable to everyone involved. Could the injunction be modified to apply only to changing the link status of dates, and to allow date edits that simply fix format? Or would that be too hard to enforce, since people could bury their linking/de-linking in a sea of format edits? -- Sapphic ( talk) 18:05, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
Let us make one thing very clear: enforcement of the injunction is left to the judgment of administrators in general, and that includes clerks (who are both familiar with the current injunctions and with the case background and thus are likely to be able to do the enforcement).
That means that, if in the administrator's judgment, the injunction has been violated by someone who is aware of it — and named parties are certainly reasonably presumed to be — then it is entirely appropriate to stop the violation with a swift block. This does not mean that any one administrator is able to see all violations, or that some putative "due process" has been violated because some have been caught and some have not. An unblock can be requested through the usual channels if the editor feels this is an error.
If you are unhappy that you have been caught violating the injunction and someone else hasn't, there is a simple solution that will leave everyone happy: don't violate the injunction to begin with; that guarantees you will not be blocked over it. — Coren (talk) 03:41, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Dabomb87 — [106] -- Sapphic ( talk) 02:02, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
At the very least, the block should be reversed immediately. You were wrong. Tony (talk) 05:26, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
This is beyond ridiculous. These kinds of blocks, and much more importantly, these kinds of vindictive hostile reports, must stop immediately. The "injunction", if handled in this way, is evidently creating much more damage and bad blood than it could ever prevent. Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:25, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
(Copied from AN)_ The edit in question by Dabomb is [107]. Dabomb had been commenting on the arbitration enforcement page, and so was aware that the very idea of delinking dates was under dispute (how could he not know?). Thus I agree with jehochman that the edit summary of that edit is provocative: "delinking dates and making dates the right format: this is a featured article and therefore must comply with all MOS guidelines".
The question whether that MoS guideline has agreement is well known to be disputed, especially by Dabomb, who has been discussing whether to place a "disputed" tag on it. For Dabomb to refer to that MoS page as if it is controlling when he/she knows that it is disputed is unlikely to help resolve the dispute, and more likely to irk those on the other side. It's a classic power move (and it does not build rapport with editors on the other side of the arbitration case).
Moreover, Dabomb had not previously edited the page in question, and made no other changes to it. I agree that if someone were to delink a date while making significant changes to an article, that would not violate the injunction. But to arrive at a page simply to change date linking isn't on, and Dabomb reasonably could be expected to know this.
If all editors would simply not change date linking styles until the arbitration case is settled, that would resolve the issue of blocks such as these. — Carl (CBM · talk) 11:50, 2009-3-11 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This edit is not only POV-pushing, it also has totally failed verification as Talk:Parapsychology#Utrecht University clearly shows. Why should we allow such behavior at featured articles? Per this warning, it is clear that this user is aware that such advocacy is not tolerated. There have been enough warnings. It's time to start doing something about problematic editors. Please. ScienceApologist ( talk) 20:42, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Given that on his talk page Jehochman has dredged up the long settled "sockpuppet of everyone" allegations in response to my request for an explanation of his action, I request that the completely over the top action be reversed. I am not a sockpuppet of anyone and this through the back door revenge ban for what has happened to scienceapologist is really out of order. I mean, Utrecht university is a major world university, as is Edinburgh, and both have/had parapsychology units. Can that factual information really be so out there as to warrant a lifetime topic can from the topic of my main interest. I feel there is no justification for this action or anything like it. Landed little marsdon ( talk) 22:08, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
I would have no problem if the ban was just from that article for a time but that topic area: ufos, cryptozoology, psi is my primary area of interest and I have no real expertise in many other areas except those relating to my professional life and i deal with that all day. I ask again, where are the problem edits that necessitate a total subject area ban. Compared with the outrageous stuff i've seen that has gone unchecked from a different perspective it's hard to believe that any kind of case could be made under which this would look fair. Landed little marsdon ( talk) 00:12, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
I've cited it ad nauseum. It's the survey cited in the article. The survey of 1100 college professors. The one published in new scientist. Are you seriously claiming that i need to do more than this. Wtf would you like. Landed little marsdon ( talk) 01:32, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
Here's a completely ridiculous and unsourced edit pushing an outrageous pov far far worse than anything i've done. I look forward to the topic ban which demonstrates that my conspiracy theory that these bans are being used to manipulate content is merely a fantasy. http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Parapsychology&diff=255930313&oldid=255274376 Landed little marsdon ( talk)
Jehochman and mastcell make great play of my net detriment to the project. A cursory glance at my contribs would reveal that i played a significant part in the resolution of the naming problem on the list of pseudosciences article. That is, in only a few weeks i helped bring about a solution to a problem that seems to have been going for several years. But don't worry, never let something so mundane as the truth interfere with the stories you need to tell yourselves to justify your action. Landed little marsdon ( talk) 02:52, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
I've been editing alongside LLM for a while now, and I'm sorry to say that this topic ban is justified based on that account's pattern of editing. LLM and ScienceApologist, whose topic ban I consider equally justified, are two sides of the same coin. Both have a pattern of making edits that promote a point of view, without inadequate sourcing. Both have a disruptive influence on talk pages, where they propound their own unique interpretations of policy and guidelines that happen to suit their purposes. Both are subject to flurries of poor editing when confronted with statements that seem to contradict their positions - most recently in opposition to each other in an edit war on Parapsychology. The only difference is, LLM's edits promote fringe science, and SA's attack fringe science. I'd much rather see both editors learn to follow WP:NPOV and to help to promote a constructive editing environment. But in the absence of that, the present approach of blocking/banning seems the only option available to the admins. The only concern I would note is that SA has not been banned from editing talk pages, whereas it sounds like LLM has been. It would be good to see more consistency there. I would be happy to see LLM able to edit talk pages. If LLM can present solid reasoning on talk pages based on reliable sources and the relevant policies and guidelines, I for one would be happy to make suggested edits, just as I am with SA, and I imagine many other editors would be too. Apologies if I'm commenting out of place here, I'm new to this page and happy to refactor if I have the protocol wrong. Ryan Paddy ( talk) 03:18, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
You will need to file this properly if you want some action taken on it. Kevin ( talk) 02:24, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
In this edit user:Cerejota calls Brewcrewer a "dick" [108]. It seems to me that, at minimum, Cerejota needs to be cautioned for resorting to personal insults of the talk page of on article under Arbitration enforcement. In this context such language is inflammatory. Malcolm Schosha ( talk) 00:02, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Apparent complete failure to speak Bureaucrat [109] effectively on my part. Sorry, but I can't do it, and apparently lack the capacity. Malcolm Schosha ( talk) 12:34, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Jehochman has blocked Dabomb87 for 24 hours. I asked him here to explain the rationale for the block. It is my understanding (which may be in error) that the block is because Dabomb87 made a single edit involving de-linking. It is also my understanding that the parties to the ArbCom are currently enjoined from mass de-linking. Jehochman explained on his talk page that he “will not tolerate badgering from multiple parties every time I try to enforce the rules.” He further instructed interested parties to come here to discuss any concerns. Ergo my question: what rule? Shouldn’t he cite the rule he is enforcing? As I am not aware of a new rule further enjoining the parties from any linking or delinking, the original injunction applies. And in that injunction, the term “mass delinking” meant—and still means—bot delinking or manual delinking in similar quantities. If Dabomb87 really made a single edit (an assumption), then what rule does Jehochman think he is enforcing? Greg L ( talk) 05:27, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
[110]. This isn't the first comment he's removed that contained relevant evidence about his behavior, which is important because substantial segments of the community, as was apparently planned, believe that SA was blocked for merely making spelling corrections; here, though, he selectively edits my Talk comment to make it into an insult, and the edit summary is likewise gratuitously pugnacious, (removing comments by a user who ought to be banned.) Previously, he removed another comment as soapboxing, but left response to that comment standing. I've been blocked, I know what it's like, and if I had behaved like this, attacking other editors from my Talk page instead of dealing with allowed business, I'd have fully expected to become unable to edit my Talk page. I conclude that is exactly what he expects, and I also conclude that we should oblige him, his block should be extended, even in advance of the pending decision, and probably the page should be blanked as a courtesy, and protected, to prevent further disruption and distraction. This is certainly not the outcome I sought.
(Editors can normally remove material from their own Talk page, but not to distort the meaning of a comment, but this right also may become somewhat restricted when it comes to material relating to the block. I know that when I attempted to simply refactor my Talk page while I was blocked, so that I could edit in a section without constantly running into edit conflicts, I was restricted as not having the right to do that. I've seen removal of material by blocked editors reverted many times. But, then again, I and they are not ScienceApologist.)
I brought this here because it relates to the restrictions on SA. -- Abd ( talk) 03:27, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
Xiutwel has been permanently banned from 9/11 related pages ( diff and sanction log). Earlier today he made an to the article on Zeitgeist, the Movie, a documentary noted for its advocacy of 9/11 conspiracy theories. I request that an appropriate sanction be enacted. Skinwalker ( talk) 00:20, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
On Ronnotel's recommendation, I'm continuing here a discussion from WP:AN/I#Orthomolecular psychiatry and Orthomolecular medicine.
First of all, I wish to thank and commend OrangeMarlin for collaboratively accepting the result of the RfC and discussion and beginning the difficult work of actually editing the article, which I hope to find time to participate in this weekend.
This dispute over article versus redirect at Orthomolecular psychiatry has involved several bouts of editwarring, necessitating page protection March 2–11. There was a discussion and an RfC, closed by uninvolved admin Ruslik, who further clarified that close here. Given the current situation, unless there is a further discussion (but see link 1A) involving merge tags, sufficient time (e.g. 5 days) and a clear consensus (e.g. acknowledged by all participants or closed by an uninvolved admin etc., not declared by one side over the objections of the other side), I consider converting the article to a redirect under current conditions to be disruptive; I expand on that in my last paragraph here: 1A.
I disagree with Keepcalmandcarryon's argument that there was an established merge. ScienceApologist tried to redirect the page in November, but was reverted a total of 3 times by 2 other editors. It then stayed in article form until February, indicating wiki-consensus for article form; no such wiki-consensus has been demonstrated for a redirect; any redirects have been reverted in less than 24 hours except when the page was protected. The discussion (before the RfC) which Keepcalmandcarryon is using to attempt to justify a redirect took place with no merge tags on the articles as far as I'm aware, started (except for comments in November) on 27 or 28 February; Keepcalmandcarryon redirected the page on 1 March and was reverted; remember that February has only 28 days. That discussion included clearly expressed opposition to, as well as support for, the merge, and all of the participants there also participated in the later discussion mentioned by Ruslik in the RfC close.
Note that Ruslik's close did not merely state "no consensus for merge" (uninvolved editors), but also stated "the results of the above discussion are clearly against the merge" (involved editors).
I'm bringing this here because editwarring over whether to redirect the page or not is continuing, and because Keepcalmandcarryon is continuing to argue at the AN/I discussion that redirecting the article is appropriate, even after the close by an uninvolved admin. Both Verbal and Keepcalmandcarryon have redirected the page ( Orthomolecular psychiatry) after that close, after the further clarification by the closer, and after my warning in link 1A that I would consider such behaviour disruptive.
I call on all participants to accept the result of the RfC and discussion as closed by an uninvolved administrator and to use established discussion fora rather than editwarring if they wish to continue to pursue the idea of merging the articles. I would appreciate decisive statements by AE administrators to help ensure that this situation is resolved by discussion in appropriate fora rather than by editwarring. (involved editor) ☺ Coppertwig ( talk) 17:56, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
This discussion has been moved back by II to the original AN/I thread. ☺ Coppertwig ( talk) 19:05, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
I had to press a few emergency buttons today on Balkanian`s word ( talk · contribs) and an IP user (today at 85.74.200.102 ( talk · contribs · WHOIS), who were wildly edit-warring on two pages in parallel. Please see follow-up discussion with both users on their talk pages. I slapped a revert limitation on the IP user (coupled with an injunction to edit only logged-in in future), and I would like to see the same revert limitation on B.w., as he has shown a rather persistent tendency to revert-war. Recognising I'm probably too "involved" content-wise with him, I'd like to bring this proposal here for review. My suggestion would be 1rv/24, coupled with an injunction I like to use in such cases: every revert to be preceded by explanation on talk, and waiting period of 3 hours between explanation and revert to allow for prior discussion. All to be logged under WP:ARBMAC. Thoughts? Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:26, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
I request a warning or remedy for Xx236 ( talk · contribs). The respective cases are Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Digwuren and Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Piotrus 2. The area of dispute is Eastern Europe. Though not a party, Xx236 has participated in Piotrus2 and thus should know about the respective rulings and cautions.
I find this behaviour unacceptable, harmful, and constructive discussion impossible. Skäpperöd ( talk) 15:37, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Two phrases quoted by Skäpperöd aren't invented by me, they were written by other users on my pages in Wikipedias, I understand them as hostile to me, so I preserved them. Is there any law here demanding cancelling some texts from my page? I'm sorry but I'm not aware of it. Xx236 ( talk) 09:11, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Lokyz ( talk · contribs) is subject to the following remedy: "Should Lokyz make any comment deemed by an administrator to have been incivil, a personal attack, or an assumption of bad faith, he may be blocked by any administrator as provided in the enforcement ruling below". I find the following comment by Lokyz, directed at me, to be quite incivil: "And are you really trying to perceive us, that your outrageous OR pretending to be peer review on a published scientific source is enough to ignore facts, just because you don't like it? ... how long this insolent removal of references, bashing scholars or simply denying the facts will continue"? That comments also builds a straw men argument accusing me of a BLP violation. As the arbitration has found such violations of NPA, AGF and overall CIV to be highly conductive to create bad editing atmoshpere, and has singled out Lokyz as one of the users responsible for making such comments, I'd like for the review of this comment and for measures to ensure that it such behavior is not repeated. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 21:40, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Arbcom case: Sathya Sai Baba 2
Over the last while, there have been some unproductive edits on Sathya Sai Baba. Radiantenergy ( talk · contribs) did an informal poll, in which editors Andries ( talk · contribs), Jayen466 ( talk · contribs) agreed with him to revert from this version of the page 14 months back to a 2007 version. I, in addition to White adept ( talk · contribs), disagreed with the revert, because it contained many primary sources which are at odds of principle 2 (in terms of primary sourcing), and also on the basis that Radiantenergy had made no effort to fix the perceived problems in the article space. Radiantenergy then reverted back to a 2007 revision, with an edit summary of "As per the consensus among involved editors I am reverting the article to the December 2007 version as the current version has broken many of the WP:BLP rules. Please see the talk page for details". When I then queried him/her for specific BLP violations, I received none. Then White Adept stepped in and reverted to an earlier revision. In his/her edit summary, White adept assumed bad faith: "Fixed revert by possible sock radiantenergy. You are covreing all well sourced material in favour of propaganda - absolute proaganda. I hope editors would pay attention to this."
What we need here are clear guidelines that will ensure productive editing of this article, with more experienced editors or administrators ready to kick into action when there is a conflict. At the moment we have polarized views that are being constantly removed and then placed back in to the article when reverted. There are also considerable number of single-purposed IP editors (see [120], [121], [122], [123], [124], [125], [126], [127], [128], etc) and throwaway accounts on the article (see [129], [130], [131], [132], [133], [134], [135], [136], [137], etc) so semi-protection is a consideration. Remedy 2 states that the article should seek to use better sources and citation style, which doesn't seem to be happening at the moment. ← Spidern → 14:18, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
I said on the Sai Baba talk page that if Radiantenergy and Andries agreed that the previous version was better, I would endorse their decision. This was based on my reading of the previous arbcom findings, rather than a detailed study of the article version to be reverted to (I am currently too busy elsewhere ;-) to devote much time to the Sai Baba article). I know from the 2006 and 2007 arbcom decisions that Andries is a committed Sai Baba opponent, while Radiantenergy seemed to be more favourably disposed towards Sai Baba. I thought if two people at opposite ends of the spectrum of opinion agree that the article has gone so pear-shaped that it is better to return to an older version, then it is most likely so. (However, I thought that the video passages recently added were probably a useful addition to the article and should be reinstated after reverting, if their copyright status works out.)
There have been two recent BLP/N threads on Sai Baba, one initiated by Spidern, and one by me. There was another BLP/N thread in January. There has been a recent RfC; RegentsPark ( talk · contribs) commented that he thought there were still BLP issues. As for the socking allegations, there may be something to that, in both cases. I alerted Jehochman to them a while ago but didn't hear back. Jayen 466 17:52, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Mere unproductive and counterproductive edits are not a clear violation of these arbcom cases. So I think this thread is off topic here. (Some edits after the arbcom case introduced factual mistakes that remained uncorrected for years and nobody seemed to care in spite of my repeated complaints on the talk page to which nobody replied.) It is clear for me that the article did not improve in any version after the latest arbcom decision. So going back to the arbcom instead of this thread seems a better idea. Andries ( talk) 06:44, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Hi. I've come across something that I feel was/is being done a bit surreptiously regarding birth/death templates, and after a comment from someone else regarding it, I've come to the conclusion that besides the issue of essentially misrepresenting what was supposedly a consensus, manipulating a change to the MOS and arbitrary change to biography infoboxes based on that, it also seems to me that this has violated the temporary injunction against automatically delinking dates at WP:Requests for arbitration/Date delinking#Temporary injunction. I outlined why I think this is effectively a violation here. I'd appreciate input and any suggestions for what steps I should take regarding what has gone on. It's been suggested to open an WP:RfC about it, but I'm not sure that is the solution for someone having manipulated and avoid process for initiating change, even though it may be unintentional, but I do think misrepresentation was involved in doing so. The editor who did this wants me to take it back to MOSNUM, although it was apparent that the original discussion wasn't so much of a discussion, much less a clear consensus, than it was a forum for him to keep pushing his idea. There were 5 or 6 persons involved and never did I see a clear consensus endorsing his templates, much less a change to the MOS or implementing what is essentially widespread change undercover. What this does by having accomplished the changes made means that unless an editor adds a special parameter to the editor's new template, there is no option for date linking to re-implemented in infobox templates without changing each one individually. Meanwhile, the older template, which applies to over 660,000 articles, can be changed back to linking by adjusting the template itself. In any case, by having slipped in this change to the MOS and infoboxes, which means the templates should be updated now, he is effectively accomplishing wide delinking in what I think is not in the spirit of the injunction. Any suggestions/help would be greatly appreciated. Wildhartlivie ( talk) 05:33, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
{{
birth-date}}
and {{
death-date}}
that Wildhartlivie mentions neither link nor delink. As I have stated frequently in multiple venues, I have no opinion either way on the link delink or autoformatting issues. I have been adding the new date templates to articles that were not using a birth or death template and my practice has been that if the article used a date link for the birth or death date then when adding the new templates, I leave the date link as it was, using the right hand parameter of the templates as described in the docs. If it had no date link, I don't add one. Here are representative examples:
(undent) Not prior to today. I have said it all along. "Date linking (aka "user preference date formatting") could be trivially restored to both the old and new template families if the community reversed its decision on that matter." [142] - J JMesserly ( talk) 17:40, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
Ever since the March 2008 Episodes and Characters 2 discussion, we have sought to come to some consensus on fictional elements and notability on WP. For various reasons the efforts have failed but not due to disruption, but more narrowing and narrowing the problem. We've had two RFCs to see about a version of WP:FICT and two additional RFCs to assert the nature of WP:N. We're still working at it, though now seems to be a matter of finer points. It's still a struggle, but I think we're a lot farther along than a year ago.
That said: a recent effect to discuss the merging of South Park articles (certain not in a fait accompli approach that TTN was warned about) has exploded again at Talk:List of South Park episodes, spreading to Wikipedia talk:Television episodes and WT:N. While it should be assumed that all editors (uninvolved or not) should be aware of the second remedy, involved editors need to be aware they should not be arising any issues, per The parties are instructed to cease engaging in editorial conflict and to work collaboratively to develop a generally accepted and applicable approach to the articles in question. They are warned that the Committee will look very unfavorably on anyone attempting to further spread or inflame this dispute. If you read these disputed pages, it is clear that User:Pixelface is treading the boundards on this, as the user refuses to compromise to a solution instead insisting that certain guidelines are invalid despite their recent confirmation of acceptance; there may be others that are also inflaming the situation but they are not listed in the involved parties, thus a warning there may be appropriate.
This is further evidenced that during this past year, Pixelface has been a subject of one Wikiquette alert (Disclaimer: I was the one that issued this in regards to their combative responses during a FICT RFC), and a Request for comment (Disclaimer: Again, I initiated that RFC/U, thought that was prompted by an WP:ANI suggestion to disruptive editing) which was closed with no significant resolution. As a result of this latest discussion, another Wikiquette alert has been issued based on his incivility to other editors. Now, one consideration that came up during the RFC/U on Pixelface was the issue of other editors baiting him into such behavior, which obviously should not happen. That said, Pixelface's responses certainly are not merited based on the input of those he replies to.
While Pixeface can provide valuable input, the approach he is taken of late is not appropriate for any such discussion, and some type of action seems to be needed to reign in this behavior as to allow a more rationale discussion towards consensus, as the previous WQA and RFC/U have not changed things. If Pixelface is refusing to move from his position and will not compromise, then this is a clear violation of the ArbCom decision and action needs to be taken.
I would think it would be worthwhile to validate if any of the other participants of the E&C case are in similar violations, but of those listed, the only one that seems to be involved actively is User:Collectonian, and I don't see any signs of incivility. And it would also be worthwhile to evaluate non-involved editors as well, and issue any warnings per the ArbCom decision. -- MASEM ( t) 20:49, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Violation of temporary injunction in the Date delinking arbitration case. Diffs follow:
Dismas ( talk · contribs) was previously warned of this injunction and has continued to delink dates despite this (this is just a sampling of what I found in the contribs, there may be more). — Locke Cole • t • c 15:52, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
To keep people from running afoul of this injunction perhaps it would be best if an administrator blanked User:Lightmouse/monobook.js/script.js and protected it? There's no use for this script other than to violate this injunction. — Locke Cole • t • c 02:17, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I think these discretionary sanctions should be applied to Russavia ( talk · contribs) as he continue attacking other editors. A month ago he said the following:
Please see this diff"You are an Estonian editor who hates Russia and are here to help advocate your hate-filled POV on those subjects.....You are a nobody, and as a nobody people could care less what your opinions on anything....Digwuren if you don't like it, then don't let your ass hit the door on the way out, because your stalking, your removal of information without edit summaries is unacceptable, and I will continue to argue for their inclusion with editors who aren't harrassing me such as yourself"
He has been warned after this incident. However, he continue doing precisely the same. He declares others to be "serial stalkers", he declares arguments by others to be "bullshit", "civility be damn". He tells to another user (Your reasons) are "utter bullshit", and so on.
Today, he makes personal offenses again. In the last diff he again calls Digwuren "nobody", although he replies to a completely different question asked by another user. Please note that Russavia was already listed in these sanctions for harassment. Biophys ( talk) 18:35, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
I clearly asked Digwuren and Martintg to stay away from my talk page. This was ignored by Digwuren who continued to troll, and was also ignored by Martintg who also continued to troll. They keep pushing and pushing and pushing and trolling and trolling and trolling, what exactly kind of response does one think they are going to get. And Biophys joined in on the harrassment/trolling as well (except Biophys admitted his stalking). What exactly does one have to do around here to get it thru people's skulls? And then there's this continued discussion on Digwuren's talk page - people are more than welcome to discuss my edits here on WP, but the constant accusations of meatpuppetry by Biophys are not helping, particularly after he was shown to have been so far off base it wasn't funny, and even when you he was shown wrong he still continued (note, I had to demand that CU be done in that case, and the admin obviously saw that the only way to stop the constant egregious accusations was to do what I asked). PLEASE, will someone make this rubbish stop!!!! I'm here to help create encyclopaedic content, not to be the subject and target of Biophys' and other editors delusions or whatever.
And I will say right here, right now, I could not care one iota if people have a problem with me uploading and utilising photos from Kremlin.ru (this is being discussed on Digwuren's talk page at the link just above) -- it is the right of editors to hate Putin and Medvedev, hey it's even the right of editors to believe that Putin's a paedophile and the like (as much as I think that says a lot about people who think it), but here on WP I don't care one bit what your POV is, because your POV is meaningless; it's the POV of reliable sources that matters. Yes, I managed to get permission to use a fantastic resource, and yes, I have uploaded thousands of photos. There is not a single reason that these photos should not be uploaded, we have the permission to use them, and by making them available on Commons, and categorised the way I have done it, this resource is readily available to the entire internet community, not just English Wikipedia; and if people don't like it, then ignore it, is it hurting you one little bit? But because one is interested in helping to develop this project, which is worth it (the egregious harrassment is not though!), I have all types of accusations levelled against me. And I don't care that Biophys (or anyone else for that matter) finds Koni (dog) hard to swallow, I'm not here to engage in advocacy or to please other editors, but this is just one of my DYKs, and this particular one was obviously interesting enough that it was the 8th most popular DYK in December 2008 with some 14,500 views. And you know what? There's not a fact tag in sight (everything I add to WP articles is meticulously sourced), there's no POV pushing (hell, I even included what I think are ridiculous claims from Russian opposition members, but did so in the interest of NPOV), etc, and people find it hard to swallow? The only thing I have to say about that is GOOD! Because this is how articles are supposed to be written; coherent prose, fully sourced, NPOV. And yes, this article wasn't something I thought of creating if it weren't for me finding photos from Kremlin.ru and noticing several of them amongst my uploads. Here is an instance that my uploading of photos to Commons has resulted in my writing an article and the project is better off for it; I challenge my detractors to find an uninvolved editor who would say otherwise. For an example of another instance, here's a work in progress which was started by myself due to myself uploading a photo of Lyudmila Putina; ask anyone who grew up in Eastern Europe if they know this guy, they will likely answer yes, and we don't have an article yet on him...but I am changing that shortly. It irks me to no end that I need to explain my existence on this project to the community based upon wishful thinking of a small group of editors who are, and should be, worried that my presence brings a degree of rationality to the project, and that often I have to explain every single edit (in which one editor calls "debate", like we are a debating society, and the best arguer wins) due to severe article ownership issues.
Also, note, Colchicum who has a lot to say at Digwuren's talk page, has referred to myself as RuSSavia ( SS anyone? I sure hope that Colchicum isn't calling me a Nazi or accusing me of harbouring Nazi sympathies) on a talk page at which editors had problems with User:Offliner (clearly) improving (the improvement of fringe POV articles needs to be protected at any cost!) and I asked him to refer to my username as written (the troll comment is in regards to this, the edit relates to the removal of sources of a non-reliable source without attribution.) He repeats the RuSSavia several days later on the talk page of a user who is currently blocked for edit warring and sockpuppeting. Again I asked him to stop with his trolling use of SS in my username -- I didn't run around feigning all sorts of rubbish and appealing to admins. Then on the 2008 South Ossetia war talk page Colchicum refers to HistoricWarrior007 as HystronicWanker. HistoricWarrior posts this on Colchicum's talk page, and I also post bringing to Colchicum's attention his comments to me. So, I hope that Biophys, Digwuren et al will all excuse me whilst I choke on their false sense of moral outrage, because just where is the outrage at those personal attacks by one of their pals on myself and another editor, and demands for discretionary sanctions? There is none, but funnily enough Digwuren's question is now being answered here, and what can be seen is trolling/harrassment on their part. Also especially telling is the reference to a discussion on my talk page regarding stub sorting for WP:RUSSIA -- who could have thought that stub sorting on MY TALK PAGE could also lead to more accusations and the like -- and one has to put up with this day in--day out.
I have apologised on Moreschi's talk page to Digwuren, I'm not going to do so again. What these guys are really uppity about is that Moreschi hasn't blocked me. It appears Moreschi isn't active at the moment, but if he were, I do not regard Moreschi as a neutral admin in this area. Note even Colchicum is asking where Moreschi is. I have seen Moreschi give out some justified blocks to editors, but I have also seen him give out some "iffy" ones (to other editors), and I have seen him blocking people for aggressive POV-pushing. Imagine my surprise, when I ask him to counsel two editors, one of whom expressed his desire to use a particular photo because it was the "most grotesque" (in his opinion), he fobs off the clear evidence of the article being used as a battleground to mock and disparage the subject. I've seen Moreschi indef block editors for less than that, and in this instance he is basically "So what". One editor in question has been blocked 3 times since then; twice for edit warring and once for block evasion (sockpuppetting). So I can see why they would want Moreschi's help. I don't have trust in Moreschi's ability to counsel editors in this area, let alone to block them, when he refuses to do anything about those clear battleground conditions. -- Russavia Dialogue 14:35, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
(o.d.) OK, this is obviously a pre-emption of a case I am in the process of filing at WP:RFA which can be seen in progress at User:Russavia/AE; head 'em off at the pass eh Biophys? There has been a systematic pattern of stalking and harrassment of edits by Biophys (subsided), but taken up by Digwuren and Martintg. To answer each of these points raised by Biophys:
If any admin is even going to touch this, I want the stalking looked at, I want Biophys' BLP violations sanctioned, I want Biophys' ownership of articles looked at, I want Biophys' tedious editing of articles looked, I want tedious refusal to answer questions looked at, I want the whole lot looked at, and look at the whole picture, and I've only just started with evidence here. Would you like to know more?. Because there is plenty more evidence which would be shown, which would put everything into some resemblance of perspective. -- Russavia Dialogue 21:03, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Some people might think from the above that I'm a particular target of User:Russavia. However, this is not so. For a particular example, consider this section. Russavia has unhelpfully labelled it "Martintg's POV-pushing". I do not need to tell the regular readers of this page that such titles are discouraged by the talkpage policy. It isn't a heat-of-a-moment thing, either: after removal, under the custom of WP:RPA, of the section, he restored it under a guise of "valid questioning", ironically, removing other comments in the process.
I'll try to resist the temptation to list other cases of bad temper here, but these are not isolated cases. Very unfortunate. Διγουρεν Εμπρος! 21:56, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Russavia only confirms his bad demeanor by blaming others and me of something that we never did. I never followed his edits with the purpose to create disruption or to harass him (that is what "wikistalking" means). To the contrary, I politely debated all issues with him in a hope that Russavia can change his behavior - like here yesterday. Unfortunately, this did not happen. Biophys ( talk) 22:11, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Let's take Ethnic cleansing of Georgians in Abkhazia. There's a major edit war over POV tagging, we have SkyBon and Alaexis (a longstanding pro-separatist editor, mainly Abkhazia and South Ossetia, I am familiar with) arrayed against a number of editors...
As far as I can see, this is Russavia's first (thwarted) POV battle with Biophys, and the likely start of bad editorial blood at least where Russavia was concerned. It's been downhill from there in terms of Russavia's collegiality. Russavia has become increasingly strident and accusatory of POV as they have apparently been bitten by the defend the Russian position at any cost against the anti-Russian hate-fest mongers. PetersV TALK 20:08, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
P.S. There's also Russavia pushing their POV by adding Abkhazia's flag to the Gallery of sovereign-state flags as well as South Ossetia's as soon as Russia recognized them. Russavia is now the arbiter of state sovereignty as well. There are more insidious changes as well, such as deleting and inserting inappropriate article categories, the list goes on. PetersV TALK 20:19, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
Coming soon. Martintg ( talk) 22:22, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
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Jehochman
Talk 13:22, 22 March 2009 (UTC)Russavia has made a personal attack against me, in relation to International recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, embodied in a section titled " Martintg's POV-pushing" (subsequently renamed Talk:International_recognition_of_Abkhazia_and_South_Ossetia#Russavia.27s_issues). In relation to this article Russavia makes a further unwarranted personal attack against myself, accusing me of being a " serial stalker", which I then asked him to tone down his incivility]. I've been interested in this and related articles since the so-called "South Ossetian War" last year [151].
This accusation of "Wikistalking" by Russavia is just an attempt to deflect attention from his incivility and is an example of the combative approach he has adopted. Russavia has created and edited many articles, often working twenty or more hours, up to 61 hours without a break according to one reports. Wannebe_kate shows some 24326 distinct pages articles edited by him, while the articles Russavia claims to have been "wikistalked" is a tiny handful, related mainly to Estonia, such as eSStonia and List_of_most_common_surnames#Estonia, however I have had a long involvement with Estonia-related articles, which I act as both recent-change-patroller and informal wiki-project Estonia co-ordinator since User:Sander Säde sadly left, using tools and watchlists to track changes.
To be fair, Russavia has made and is making a fine contribution, except for a very small number of articles where he comes across as a very combative and strident Russian nationalist (ironically he claims to be Australian), that other Russian editors are apparently embarrassed by his egregious POV pushing and do not want help him. It's almost has if there are two people sharing the one account, the reasonable editor making a great contribution and the ultra-nationalist edit warrior, perhaps that may explain the long edit sessions.
But I digress. Russiavia has proven to be too combative in his attitude and has been repeatedly warned about this excessive confrontationalism. I wouldn't like to see Russavia be blocked as he is a productive editor most of the time, but a selective topic restriction may be most effective way to reduce the unnecessary confrontation, incivility and personal attacks. I propose a restriction on articles related to Russian-Georgian war, Estonian-Russian relations and Alexander Litvenko. Others here can make other proposals. Martintg ( talk) 11:53, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
I would like to note that Russavia accused me of "paranoid nuttery" in the end of this diff he cited above. He is doing this to "prove" that he is a civil editor!. He simply fails to understand what polite behavior is. No mentioning that his accusation is false. Sorry people, but I am not crazy and very much capable of critical thinking as anyone with ISI citation index above 1000. I do not like any theories, unless such theories are firmly supported by facts. I created a couple of "conspiracy theory" articles (one of them Litvinenko assassination theories) merely to remove doubtful materials from main articles, and it were in fact Russavia and Offliner who included garbage (propaganda) "theories" in several articles, as correctly noted by Colchichum. Biophys ( talk) 05:15, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Jechochman provided the following arguments in support of Russavia: (1) R. has been provoked; (2) people who provided diffs about R. do not like him; and (3) this is all too complicated and needs intervention of Arbcom. All these arguments are hardly appropriate. Argument (1). No, even if R. was provoked (which I doubt), this does not justify his own incivility per WP:CIV. Argument (2). No, if the diffs clearly show misbehavior by Russavia (and they do), it does not really matter who and why provided these diffs. Argument (3). R. is welcome to try to prove that other users are at fault, but he is clearly a subject of immediate discretionary sanctions per a previous ArbCom ruling. He must be either placed under a civility parole or topic banned from editing anything related to Russian government - based on the diffs provided in the beginning of this AE and his obvious denial that he did anything wrong at all. Biophys ( talk) 12:03, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
The squabbling on this thread may not bode well for the future participation of editors involved. If you look carefully, you can see that I have warned each party: Biophys, not to game the rules or head-hunt for sanctions as an extension of editorial disputes; Marting and Digwuren, not to bait, harass or annoy Russavia; and Russavia, to maintain his cool and to respect WP:NPOV. If anybody takes my advice to heart, they should be fine. Each of you, your fate is in your own hands. Anybody who plays games like "I didn't hear you" or "that guy should be banned" or "I don't give a fuck about civility" will be sanctioned, next time. Hopefully I have made this very clear. Each of you, please go edit an article; preferably different articles. If you run into trouble with each other, avoid conflict. Instead, ask for help from uninvolved editors at low-drama venues like WP:WQA and WP:3O. (Click to see what those abbreviations mean). Thank you, good bye. Jehochman Talk 16:24, 23 March 2009 (UTC)