Request for enforcement denied due to failure to place the user on notice of the existence of general sanctions. Stifle ( talk) 09:42, 19 April 2010 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Tuscumbia
Discussion concerning TuscumbiaStatement by TuscumbiaI created the article Zheleznovodsk Communiqué based on valid sources. The text that MarshallBagramyan ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) changed and kept reverting does not refer to the sources of the actual declaration. In other words, the very Declaration/Communiqué the article is about claims (in 1991 when it was signed) the conflict started "4 years ago", i.e. in 1987, clearly referring to first petitions collected by Armenians of Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh and subsequent mutual hostilities committed in Karabakh and Armenia (specifically mentioned in BBC article [6]). Of course, Marshall Bagramyan denounces the linked article right away as invalid, compiled by one journalist, etc while this is the journalist ( Thomas de Waal) on whose writings a considerable part of Karabakh conflict articles are quoted and based on. In other words, the user is being selective just because this particular quote from BBC approved text does not suit his edits and reverts. Moreover, I asked him and directed him to discuss his edits on the talk page ( [7], [8], [9]) and reach consensus before making the intended changes. As can be seen from this article about the helicopter shootdown related to Zheleznovodsk Communiqué, I reviewed his changes and came to consensus [10]. As for the Black January page, all changes made by unknown IPs were POV and I attempted to get them reach consensus on the talk page too before making those edits (if needed I'll provide all diffs to show the attempts). Tuscumbia ( talk) 16:21, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning TuscumbiaFrom what I see, in this diff, which was the first revert, Tuscumbia urged MarshallBagramyan to discuss, but he proceeded further, ignoring subsequent invitation to talk. For me the basic problem is that Marshal pushes a disputable background section, sourced with BBC News instead of more specific book, offered by Tuscumbia. Brandmeister t] 17:49, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
Result concerning Tuscumbia
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Hittit ( talk · contribs) warned. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Hittit
Discussion concerning HittitStatement by HittitI find this complaint highly absurd. The question is of one revert in which a sourced clarification I added was reverted by MarshallBagramyan. Furthermore, filing complains against those who contribute to the article with a range of sources and try to correct statement such as insinuating a relation between the invetion the term Genocide and the Armenians is childish. See my sources, the term was coined to refer to the Holocaust, attempts to suggest otherwise is manipulation and needs to be rapidly corrected. This complaint is unjustified and should be effectively ignored. Moreover, Wikipedia cannot be a hostage to Armenian editors deleting, reverting or filing compalains against those who want to correct the level of POV in the article. Hittit ( talk) 09:16, 17 April 2010 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning HittitResult concerning Hittit
I believe that this request is not actionable because the sanction by Moreschi displayed at the top of Talk:Armenian Genocide is likely invalid. Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2#Amended Remedies and Enforcement does not appear to allow for article-level sanctions of this sort; it appears to direct that sanctions must be directed at individual editors following individual warnings. If article-level sanctions are desirable, the Committee should be asked to amend their decision to provide for such sanctions. Sandstein 10:28, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
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Request not actionable: the subject had not been placed on notice by an administrator. He now has. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Marekchelsea
Disruptive editingUndiscussed cut’n’ paste move marked as minor edit [16] [17] Another undiscussed cut’n paste move marked as minor edit [18] [19] And another one undiscussed cut n paste move parked as minor edit [20] [21] Undiscussed move marked as minor edit with misleading edit summary “change name according to belarusian wiki)“ – while claiming that the change was made “according to belarusian wiki“ Marekchelsea was doing the opposite – moving the article from the name that is used in Belarusian wiki to the name that is not even mentioned in the Belarusian wiki. Just a "few" more undiscussed cut‘n‘paste moves [22] [23]; [24] [25]; [26] [27] User never discusses his moves or controversial edits despite being asked to do so, and thus promoting his personal agenda. The user was warned already in 2008 [28] twice [29] against removing text, without edit summary and was asked to discuss edits that are likely to be controversial on the article's talk page, but no progress in his behavior can be seen so far. Just now I asked him kindly to stop this disruptive practices [30] but after this, Marekchelsea instead simply deleted previous admin warning [31], and continues to make undiscussed controversial changes marking them as minor edits non stop [32]; [33] also continuing his stale revert warring at Jan Czeczot article [34] (prievious reverts [35], [36], [37]) Revert warringMarekchelsea was warned to avoid revert warring a couple times before. After being warned to avoid revert warring and obey WP:3RR, [38] and asked to discuss controversial changes at the talk pages [39], Marekchelsea continued his ways – most telling example is this article [40] Just at this article alone Marekchelsea made at least 17 reverts, multiple times breaking 3RR rule, of which he was aware by now, by making 4, 5 or even more reverts in 24 hours [41], [42], [43], [44], [45] and so on. Disruption during CfD and personal attacksAfter this CfD [46] that went not the way Marekchelsea desired – according to Marekchelsea consensus was simply wrong [47] - he created POV fork category which was soon nominated by uninvolved admin for deletion [48]. During this CfD Marekchelsea breached rules of WP:No personal attacks by attacking editor just because he expressed opinion opposing his views [49] Also CfD related revert spree accompanied by offensive edit summaries („this is sick“) aimed towards at least three wikipedia editors [50] is also worth noting.
Discussion concerning MarekchelseaStatement by MarekchelseaComments by others about the request concerning MarekchelseaResult concerning Marekchelsea
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User blocked for 8 hours for 1RR violation. Stifle ( talk) 14:51, 19 April 2010 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Lihaas
Discussion concerning LihaasStatement by LihaasComments by others about the request concerning LihaasResult concerning Lihaas
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
if one sees the discussion on the talk page for List of terrorist incidents, 2010#criteria for inclusions I have asked O Fenian for a debate where he refuses to debate the issue at hand but simply states : "This is not a list of bombings, so please do not add bombings..." + "If your only argument is that you intend to "ignore all rules" then this discussion is pointless" + "You either provide a source that describes the incident as terrorism, or it does not get added to the list." He then resorts to the tried and tested method of tag-team revertin with the user RepublicanJacobite from the the irish republican wikiproject (of which the two did the same on the RIRA/CIRA articles last year to remove the sources quotations from the IMC report of the time). On another issue on the page I had an issue with the addition of the Tapuah Junction stabbing incident which another editor added because wikipedia calls for editors to be WP:Bold. I'm currently in the process of debating with another editor why i think it is wrong to add and why he thinks it is right, as the onus is on me to challenge the info was agreeably left on the page till consensus. Then another editor comes along and adds this edit in question about RAAD, the 2 republican members seem to so politically charged that they dont want to discuss the issue or the criteria for inclusion (in general as per the topic of the debate) and refuse to discuss this but simply state the onus turns on us again. I have said it before in the debate that i agree there is stuff that shouldn't be on here but let's debate a criteria, yet they seem to think it is absolutely there preregotive to decide on an issue that suits them with scant regard for the talk facility. What is the point of a talk facility if political agendas have it there way without willingness to discuss? Even the hot-bed of the Middle East conflict is at least willing to discuss in the Jewish Exodus from Arab lands. Im not saying im right, im just saying have a debate fairly before removing. Then get consensus. Wikipedia explicity asked an editor to be bold and they remove without discussing it with anyone. Might as well get rid of all these rules then. (of which, btw WP:Ignore also states that rules dont have to be followed by the book, meaning WP:WTA has repercussions. Furthermore, another editor has also said how the list of terrorist incidents is unrelated to the troubles and that every act of terror/political violence in N. Ireland is not related to the troubles. Lihaas ( talk) 09:02, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
Why would i possible want to log out and log back in just to edit this? That to somethign that is blatantly similiar? If i was a sock puppet woudlnt i at least try to be different? My account seems to often log out on some comps im on b/c its a public facility or has low cache memory. i dont know what the reason is. Lihaas ( talk) 09:05, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
on what basis was this? on the whim of 1 person? No others, no other admins. Is this a politically driven wikipedia that 1 person can make demands have it passed? Simply because he asserts a relation with the troubles doesnt make it true? Mr. O Fenian is not a historian by an qualification not a policy maker nor a wikipedia admin/rule maker. as above, 2 editors on the issue have shown this to be otherwise. Why is there no apology for the block? And as shown above the second "revert" adds another source to work through consensus, yet for some reason wikipedia seems to believe that only those who update regularly have the authority to make demands on others. Lihaas ( talk) 10:57, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
Considering Lihaas is once again adding the incident which is unsourced as terrorism with an edit summary of vandalism -- watch what you delete I would request that a sanction (or sanctions) of some description is/are issued. Thank you. O Fenian ( talk) 07:19, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
I am finding it difficult to believe that straight after a block for a 1RR breach, an editor can breach 1RR again on the same article using a sockpuppet, continue edit warring after that, make accusations of vandalism, and that nothing is going to happen about this? When will it end? O Fenian ( talk) 09:11, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
Comment From my uninvolved view with this current issue. I have dealt with O Fenian before and I noticed from his comment of complaining about accusations of vandalism, this reminds me of a certain accusation here where he falsely accused me of vandalism while I attempted to fix an infobox which I was only able to do poorly due to template problems. Hypocrisy? The C of E. God Save The Queen! ( talk) 17:15, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
Various users placed on 1RR with requirement to discuss reverts. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Kedadi
Kedadi is a sterile revert-warrior on any topic related to Albania, a sort of self-styled "gatekeeper". Virtually all his article space edits consist of reverts [64], often with a hostile [65] or deceitful [66] edit summary (the version he reverted to is anything but stable). He has been particularly disruptive lately, always joining in whatever edit-war involving Albanian editors is going on [67] [68] [69] [70]. Whenever the other Albanian editors reach their 3RR limit, Kedadi is always there for that extra revert. He also almost never participates in talkpage discussions, except only to cast a !vote. Seeing how he appears to be a revert-only account, with minimal content building and causing considerable disruption, some sort of sanction, whether a revert limitation or topic ban seems appropriate. This has been going on far too long.
His talkpage is a graveyard of warnings, notifications, conflict, and hostility, generally reflecting his contributions [71] [72] [73] [74]. He has been topic-banned before [75] as well.
Revert limitations or topic-ban.
The situation on Albania-related topics has reached boiling point of late, causing an administrator to issue the following warning [76]. I am content to heed this warning. It appears Kedadi is not [77] (revert is after the warning was issued).
Discussion concerning KedadiStatement by KedadiAthenean, thanks for letting me know about your request. Below I'll try to respond to your request and to the comments you made below. >"Kedadi is a sterile revert-warrior on any topic related to Albania ..."
>"Virtually all his article space edits consist of reverts ..."
>"often with a hostile [79] ... edit summary"
>"His talkpage is a graveyard of warnings, notifications, conflict, and hostility, generally reflecting his contributions ..."
>"He has been topic-banned before as well."
>"The situation on Albania-related topics has reached boiling point of late, causing an administrator to issue the following warning. I am content to heed this warning. It appears Kedadi is not." >"Kedadi has done nothing but revert, revert, revert, since he joined in 2005."
>"Never discusses, never compromises, never stops."
--- @ Admins dealing with this case: as Fut.Perf. ☼ stated, there probably are other editors who deserve a sanction a lot more than I do. Cheers. kedadial 16:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning KedadiI just checked one of the latest performances of the reverting circus between the Greek and the Albanian crowds: Dardani. For crying out loud. Aigest ( talk · contribs) removes some alleged fact-bites, giving clear reason for the removal.( [80] and subsequent edits.) Megistias ( talk · contribs) reverts him with an accusation of "vandalism" [81]. Aigest explains on talk [82]. Nevertheless, Athenean ( talk · contribs), Alexikoua ( talk · contribs) and Megistias [83] [84] [85] revert him in tag-team four or five times, in what is apparently a kind of automated knee-jerk reaction for them. On the other side, Kedadi joins in the fray, reverting once [86]. Until, finally, the Greek team makes an effort to actually understand Aigest's point, and belatedly has to admit that he was right all along [87]. I can certainly see a list of people who need some kind of sanctions here, but Kedadi isn't necessarily on top of that list. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:02, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
I agree with FutureP and frankly I don't see any policy being violated by kedadi. In fact he has been very helpful in many projects like maintenance of WikiProject Albania. Like FutureP said he has made just 1 revert, while other users work in a kind of automated knee-jerk reaction without even trying to understand the situation. Kedadi made 1-2 reverts and Athenean who has made 3 reverts on Polyphonic song of Epirus reports him and asks for him to be topic-banned? For the record kedadi's last block was in 2006 (while Athenean's just a month ago), so the statement "his talkpage is a graveyard of warnings" is a harrasive attempt to convince the community that kedadi needs to be topic banned.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 09:19, 28 April 2010 (UTC) As FutureP noticed before what bothers me more is the automatic reverse by the above users especially Athenean and Megistias, without even trying to understand what actually others are saying. In Dardani article, Peresadyes (whatever their ethnicity might have been) were described as the forerunners of the dynasty of Bardyllis, and they were Thracians supported by Cambridge reference. After checking out the reference [92] it was clear that Peresadyes had nothing to do with Dardani, just like my comment while doing changes to the article. The reference is about Encheleae joining Peresyades, not Dardanians. Please be careful with the sources [93] [94]. As everybody can see from both my comments in these two changes, my concern was about their relation with Dardani which was not supported by the reference. I was automatically reverted by Athenean here [95] and just have a look at our comments. Mine was "Again the reference has nothing to do with Dardani, but it speaks about Encheleae joining Peresyades. Please don't misuse the sources" and Athenean comment was "No, the Cambridge Ancient History clearly states that the Peresadyes were Thracians. Please don't misuse the English language". Apparently Athenean doesn't have a clue about how the sources should be used in an article. With the excuse of bad English [96] he still continued to argue about the ethnicity of Peresadyes while my concern was the link between Dardanians and Peresadyes and not the ethnicity of Peresadyes. I had to cite a full page from the book here [97] and still I had the same problem [98] which were solved later [99]. What is more sad than funny is that the same problem existed before [100] and Megistias response was the same [101] rv vandalism while the other user (Lontech) made the same comment as mine "Your reference says nothing about dardani predecessors and your reference is not related to your writing" the response was again a revert [102] Seeing the whole story of Dardani we can notice that the worst things are:
I don't see any fault of Kedadi in this case and like FutPer said others may need some sanctions here. Aigest ( talk) 12:24, 28 April 2010 (UTC) I endorse all previous statements made from users that know well Kedadi's work: FPS, Aigest and ZjarriRrethues. I have never had a problem with user:kedadi. He is extremely communicative and his reverts are well founded. He performs an excellent job in maintaining the Albania Task Force and uses NPOV. I think that without him the Albania country Task force would have had no Albanians to maintain it in the last 5-6 months. Rather than trying to kick out excellent users, like user:kedadi, user:athenean should focus on building articles and improving them. I still have to see one single article started by this user and brought to Start status, however I have seen at least 20 reports of all colors initiated by him (and the target of which are Albanian users). These reports have several times attempted to boot from Wikipedia good users, such as Kedadi. Many times admins fall into the traps of these reports and Wikipedia ends up losing valuable contributors. Reporting users and asking for their topic ban is the last resort and should not be used losely otherwise it falls under wp:harassment and wp:Tendentious editing. I have been reported too many time by user:athenean and I have noticed that in the talk page of Arbac Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Macedonia#Statement_by_sulmues. I would invite FPS to publicly mention those users who make unfounded reverts and I would also invite the admin to read closely the true edit warriors with close attention to the content. Again Kedadi's reverts are well founded and content based and he is far from deserving anything asked as outcome in this report. Thank you for your attention. -- Sulmues Let's talk 13:40, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Let me get this straight, even if I am right at removing or adding smth to the article (just look at the Dardani example above), that will be dangerous because somebody might continue to not follow the rules?! One person should be accountable for its own actions and that is a fundamental principle. Assuming that everybody is the same within a specific nationalistic group, smells (excuse me FP) like racism. Returning to the example above I wouldn't put in the same level Alexikoua ( talk · contribs), Megistias ( talk · contribs) and Athenean ( talk · contribs). While Megistias ( talk · contribs) and Athenean ( talk · contribs) didn't bother to get my concern, Alexikoua ( talk · contribs) made only one rv and continued to talk in the talk page and after we agreed that I was right [103] and right now the article is more correct(ref and facts are related). This is a good example that going nuclear on all participants regardless of their actions (right or wrong) is very wrong and unproductive. Aigest ( talk) 15:07, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
I see but still I am not fully convinced, situations can be very complicated indeed. In the above example Athenean made two rv, Megistias one and Alex one so Megistias is the third rv and Alex is the fourth rv by the Greek team (sorry guys):). Sulmues made one, kedadi one and me also one [104] mine being third from Albanian team:) and after agreed with Alexi on talk page [105] I made fourth rv [106] (if it can be called rv) and the things were solved [107] [108] before administrators entered into scene later [109]. So in the end of the day by the proposed solution the persons ( Alexikoua ( talk · contribs) and Aigest ( talk · contribs)) who tried to understand each other [110] found a consensus [111] and improved the article, should be punished?! That's why I think that one person should be accountable for its own actions and punishments should be for its own behavior. Aigest ( talk) 15:33, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Note: this still requires action. The reverting circus is still travelling; currently it's at Greeks in Albania and Anastas Avramidhi-Lakçe. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:57, 1 May 2010 (UTC) Result concerning Kedadi
Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:36, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
User:Sulmues has proposed a possible solution on my talk. I would invite comments on same.
Stifle (
talk) 22:08, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
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Ліонкінг placed on notice of sanctions. Request otherwise closed without action.
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Ліонкінг
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2#Amended Remedies and Enforcement
I would add that Ліонкінг has recently used the "rv vandalism" edit summary to justify the removal of refs (including official census figures) and POV-pushing, restoring the "unreferenced" tag despite presence of sourced info: [122], [123], [124] etc. That pattern becomes disruptive. Brandmeister t] 21:10, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Discussion concerning ЛіонкінгStatement by ЛіонкінгBrandmeisterActually there is a hot discussion on it's talk page. In this discussion is participating 4 users, including me and a plaintiff. The size of this discussion at this moment is more than 16,000 bytes and it's seems that parties soon will have a compromise (according to the last post of User:Golbez who summed the arguments of User:Brandmeister and User:Tuscumbia from one side and my arguments from the other side. So to gain a compromise I've decided to stop renaming of this article. In renaming also have participated yet one pro-Azeri User:NovaSkola who even haven't give any statement in the Talk page. Also I want to add that I and plaintiff applied to the skilled Carlossuarez46 and we are still waiting for his help in this situation. I believe that the plaintiff had specifically filed a lawsuit to try to resolve the conflict, which is now being actively discussed by dishonest means. I think that any renaming of the article until consensus is simply a provocation. Yours -- Ліонкінг ( talk) 04:55, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
TuscumbiaI've just fullfiled this articles with real information from the last census which recognuse Azerbaijan and NKR - [126] and I've cleaned a wrong information according to which there was an Azeri census after the war, because simply Azerbaijan don't controle this teritories. Thereafter, this user is simply rolled back all of my edits, and interjected obviously false promotional information from the source of the census of Azerbaijan. Compare please my contribution page and his last contributions. That is, he did it openly, and he did it not assuming good intentions. Moreover, he has done all of my edits on my contribution, as well as calls my opinions nationalist, though I do not even add a link to a census of the NKR, and add a link to a census of the USSR in 1989 - the last census, in which both nations have lived in the same area. But despite this user continues to destructive actions, and together with his partner, simply trying to throw me out of the project, lobbying their one-sided point of view, which is misleading. I meant that I do not expect more from him good intentions, as he calls me a nationalist, I take it as a libel and defamation, for which I think he should suffer legal punishment. Yours -- Ліонкінг ( talk) 20:25, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning ЛіонкінгUser Ліонкінг ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) repeatedly vandalizes the pages Khojavend Rayon, Fizuli Rayon, Jabrayil Rayon, Lachin Rayon, Qubadli Rayon, Tartar Rayon, Agdam Rayon, Zangilan Rayon. Here are his edits: [127], [128], [129], [130], [131], [132], [133], [134] While reverting the sourced information, he calls the previous addition of sourced information "vandalism" replacing it with nationalistic data thus decreasing the number of last recorded Azerbaijani inhabitants (according to census) of these regions and renaming regions of Azerbaijan to Armenian names. Note that most of these regions are not even in the disputed Nagorno-Karabakh Republic. His actions are highly unacademic and highly disruptive. Moreover, he admits he will not assume good faith and implies he will continue his disruptive behavior, please see the diff here [135] I'd say he does fall under AA2. Please take appropriate actions warning him or consider blocking this user from English Wikipedia. Thank you. Tuscumbia ( talk) 20:09, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
I've gone through the articles mentioned above (basically, Azeri rayons currently controlled/claimed by the NKR) and removed all irrelevant (i.e. not about the rayon) and unsourced information. Hopefully this provides a baseline for better edits. -- Golbez ( talk) 20:35, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Site www.mct.gov.az and some statisticswww.mct.gov.az - azerbaijani propaganda site that contains false information Some statistic from www.mct.gov.az: "С 1988 года Азербайджан был втянут в вооруженный конфликт с Арменией. В результате военных действий в Нагорном Карабахе и прилегающих к нему районах - Кельбаджаре, Агдаме, Лачине, Джабраиле, Губадлы, Зангелане и Физули было оккупировано 20% азербайджанских территорий (20% of territory), а количество беженцев и вынужденных переселенцев с оккупированных земель достигло миллиона человек (million refugees). " Tom de Waal. Black garden: Armenia and Azerbaijan through peace and war. pp. 285-286:
Divot ( talk) 16:36, 29 April 2010 (UTC) Result concerning Ліонкінг
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
I followed an invitation to comment from WT:NOR, which has nothing to do with MOS, on an issue concerning three pages which have nothing to do with MOS, attempting to merge them into a MOS page. When I did so, I did not realize the target was a MOS page, I also thought that the restriction had lapsed (I'm not counting the days until I can continue with MOS, which is the intent of the restriction); but I will abide by any decision relating to WT:Words to watch.
However, I hope the decision will be to leave things alone. The restriction arises from a date-delinking case; this is a completely different issue.
This complaint is an abuse of process, attempting to Wiki-lawyer a loosely phrased reestriction, which will expire before long, into an area it was never intended to cover; similarly, the merge proposal is an attempt to bull through a change which has no consensus, and which will have the effect of expanding MOS.
Both of these flaws are endemic to MOS's way of conduct and to its regulars; is Tony's real objection to somebody pointing out this creeping imperialism? Or is it being reminded that MOS is widely (and justly) despised outside its Mutual Admiration Society? (Which is why I will not discuss the "guideline" if this merge passes; I will simply ignore it.) Septentrionalis PMAnderson 05:02, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
Tony has been attempting to gather together all my past actions; the result has described as Wikilawyering by third parties as well as myself. This continued effort to silence an inconvenient voice is really deplorable. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:10, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
To AGK: I have no intention of using this matter to recall any of the acting admins, if that simplifies matters. For what it's worth, I have not commented at WT:Words to Watch, and don't intend to do so either; this note on Carcharoth's talk page suggests that the matter has been settled, and that my intervention has been helpful. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:01, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
What I just read, the widened restriction, is as follows:
“ | …restriction re-widened to include the pages and talk pages of all MOS and style guidelines due to continuing disruption. | ” |
Quoting PMAnderson: …which have nothing to do with MOS… perhaps. It is, however, quite clearly “style guidelines”. Moreover, we once again seem to be seeing “continuing disruption”, which is what happens if one accuses an experienced editor who has been around since 2005 with “ vandalism” over a style guide issue ( Wikipedia:Avoid peacock terms) when it is quite clear that the edit PMAnderson reverted was over a legitimate difference in opinion and couldn’t properly be regarded as vandalism by any stretch of the imagination.
The reason for the topic ban on PMAnderson was to take a source of both the fuel and the spark from venues where debate was ongoing that were hot-button topics for him. The ban was widened because the scope of topics that were obviously hot-button issues proved wider than first thought.
As for PMAnderson’s protestation This complaint is an abuse of process, attempting to Wiki-lawyer a loosely phrased reestriction… I find he doth protest too much. The extended topic ban (“the pages and talk pages of all MOS and style guidelines”) is sufficiently clear. The motives and reasoning underlying the restrictions are even more clear.
As to the entire last paragraph of PMAnderson’s statement… (endemic flaws, the “regulars” on MOS, “creeping imperialism”), I frankly don’t know how to respond to that. Greg L ( talk) 06:13, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
Tony also takes care, when coming to venues like this, to use the truth and nothing but the truth in his posts. I find it unfortunate and telling when PMAnderson writes I did not realize the target was a MOS page when it was so easy for the inviting editor to come here (as she later did) to point out that her open invitation began with There's a proposal to merge several pages as part of a project to streamline the MoS. It appears to me that PMAnderson brings both the fuel and the spark to the style-guide coal mines and we simply don’t need that. Greg L ( talk) 15:53, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
I do not mind a sincere and civil vote by Pma, and I think people would have overlooked a genuine 'technical violation'. However, it goes way beyond that: he charges into a discussion – and on-going rewriting work – which has been going on in a very cordial, collegial and enthusiastic manner for some weeks, without apparently having read through the exchanges, and then proceeds to insult those who have given their hard work to consolidate the mess which resulted from gradual evolution. I find the repeated pattern of unprovoked denigration of others and dissing of their opinions unacceptable. Even here (above), his rhetoric is belligerent, and I note his vitriolic attack ("creeping imperialism") of Tony for filing this case. His anger-management does not seem to have improved a lot, if at all, since the dates case.
He may choose to forget that the broadening of the arbcom restriction was a result of previous disruption; to say it is "loosely phrased reestriction" (sic) is stretching credulity to the extreme - the wording is, I believe, crystal clear. There seems to be a serious disconnect between his statement that he wasn't aware it was a Style guideline, and his assertion that editing restrictions placed upon him had lapsed already. This version is the one which Pmanderson voted on. The very prominent {{ style-guideline}} tag at the top of the page is difficult to miss. The MOS tag has similarly existed on WP:PEACOCK since at least the end of 2007.
In view of the zero improvement in his behaviour, I believe a six-month extension to the topic ban to be entirely appropriate, to prevent further disruption. Ohconfucius ¡digame! 06:41, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
Pmanderson provides a reasonable explanation for what is only a technical violation, if a violation at all. And his comments, if read in context, are only barely objectionable. Hesperian 09:06, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
Just a point about Pmanderson's statement that he was responding to a request for comment posted on WT:NOR, and didn't realize it was connected to the MoS. I was the one who posted that request, and it's clearly connected to the MoS. I wrote:
Wikipedia talk:Words to watch#RFC. There's a proposal to merge several pages as part of a project to streamline the MoS. One part of the proposal is to merge Words to avoid, Avoid peacock terms, Avoid weasel words, and Avoid neologisms into a new page, Words to watch ( W2W). Fresh input would be appreciated at the RfC. [138]
SlimVirgin talk contribs 12:50, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
By editing Wikipedia talk:Words to watch and Wikipedia:Avoid peacock terms, which are labeled as being part of WP:MOS, Pmanderson has violated the extension of his topic ban to "the pages and talk pages of all MOS and style guidelines" by Shell Kinney ( talk · contribs), an arbitrator. However, I'm not sure abount the binding nature (and hence the enforceability) of this extension, because the Arbitration Committee's decision does not authorize discretionary sanctions by administrators (which could include such a ban extension) and nothing indicates that the ban extension is the result of a (public or non-public) vote of the Committee, either in the course of the original case or an amendment motion. For this reason, I am asking Shell Kinney to clarify whether his ban extension was made in the exercise of the Arbitration Committee's binding dispute resolution authority.
Per Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Carl_Hewitt#Post-case_clarification, I'd like to request semi-protection of Gödel's incompleteness theorems. Numerous IPs have been posting to the talk page recently, which was mildly tendentious but not worth any sort of enforcement action. However, today three IPs have edited the main article to expand on Hewitt's work. The use of numerous IPs matches the description in the section of the arbcom case linked above. The article was recently semiprotected for two weeks on Feb. 15 for the same reason. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 21:47, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Closed with no action. While there may be some technical violations of restrictions, this AE request is becoming a violation of WP:BATTLE. The parties are urged to discuss rather than reverting. An extremely dim view will be taken if the issue has to return here, and the reporter of any such case will find his/her behaviour scrutinised as much as the reportee. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning MarshallBagramyan
Discussion concerning MarshallBagramyanStatement by MarshallBagramyanHow extremely rude of you to jump out of the blue and seize this occasion to report me for a supposed infraction on an issue which you have never involved yourself in, Grandmaster. The violations that you allege are inaccurate: my first "revert" was simply re-adding a tag which had been removed at a time that a normal discussion was taking place ( here). My second "revert" was not a revert at all: after achieving a consensus on the talk page and after receiving a go ahead from another editor on the talk page, I redirected the article to it's proper location. The only actual edit that can be counted as a revert would be the last one, and even then, I was acting on consensus. How very shameful of you Grandmaster, This board's purpose here isn't simply to wait for an opportune moment to report and try to block your opponents; it's to report on actual vandalism and disruptive editing. I have been complying by the rules of the ArbCom to the best of my abilities.To advocate that the most stringent measures to be taken against me for this nonevent speaks very poorly on your part. To whoever is assessing this case: please go through my recent contributions and see how active I have been on the talk pages of articles to bring forth resolutions without resorting to constant, endless edit wars. -- Marshal Bagramyan ( talk) 06:51, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning MarshallBagramyan
BRD is not a justification for imposing one's own view, or tendentious editing without consensus... BRD is not a substitute for prior research which would support the initial edit or a reversion of it... BRD is not a process that you can require other editors to follow... BRD is not a valid excuse for reverting good-faith efforts to improve a page simply because you don't like the changes... BRD is not an excuse for reverting any change more than once... Based on Stifle’s comments I will assume WP:BOLD and continue work on the article. I find it absurd that after some one makes an article disappear from Wikipedia without the mandated to do so he is referred to have followed WP:BOLD. -- Hittit ( talk) 04:08, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
Result concerning MarshallBagramyan
Alright, I normally wouldn't edit this section with a mere warning, but it seems I need to use my administrator voice. Do not abuse any part of Wikipedia as a battleground. That means, leave your grudges on the other side of the keyboard and shut the hell up. If this nonsense continues, I will start issuing editing restrictions, or if the disruptive behavior continues, simply indef the lot of you. No more fighting, no more bickering, no more childish displays. -- Tznkai ( talk) 05:05, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
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One year topic ban of Biruitorul ( talk · contribs) reset to begin anew now with any exceptions removed. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Biruitorul
All edits are clearly within the scope of an Eastern European topic ban.
Discussion concerning BiruitorulStatement by BiruitorulComments by others about the request concerning BiruitorulRussavia, could you please briefly annotate your list of diffs with what article they concern, and why that article falls within the topic ban? For example, for your second listed diff : Andrei Pleşu, Romanian politician" would suffice.-- Tznkai ( talk) 19:38, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
And if I could add one more quick point, I find this edit summary ("sigh, add yet another topic ban breach by eeml'er") to be extremely incivil. A lot of bad blood has been created around this topic area (I, personally, was not responsible for that — I've barely had any interaction with the user filing this complaint), and it would be great if we could at least treat each other with a minimum level of decency in our public interactions. I'm not simply "eeml'er", I'm someone who's worked hard on this project for four years, who's used over 99.9% of his nearly 65,000 edits for constructive purposes, and who would appreciate my pride and dignity being respected, as called for by official policy. How about simply "add complaint"? - Biruitorul Talk 06:21, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
I'm not going to close this with a decision, but I'll say that I for one will not impose sanctions here, and would recommend the same to other admins – although evidently I couldn't stop them from applying the letter of the law if they insist. However, the rule of "preventative, not punitive" does apply to AE sanctions too, and given Biruitorul's latest statement above, and the overall positive nature of the edits (on which I fully trust Dahn's judgment), I really don't see what good a block would achieve. The fact that Biruitorul made these edits over a substantial period of time has been cited above as an aggravating factor. To my mind, it is the opposite: if he could make such edits for such a long time, without anybody raising objections, this just goes to show how non-disruptive they were, and the longer he did the more he had reasons to believe in good faith that it was allowed. Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:42, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
Also, I believe when the suggestion was made for you to do some backlog work, that it was on articles outside of your topic ban. Therefore, I propose that Biruitorul expand the following articles from Category:All articles to be expanded:
All of those articles are quite thin on detail, and there is a wealth of information on each of those relationships. As an example, he thought Kuwait–Russia relations (pre-expansion) should have been merged, and look at it now with a bit of expansion. If an article on a lesser relationship can be expanded to such a length, imagine what the above could be expanded to. This would help clear the backlog too. -- Russavia I'm chanting as we speak 00:35, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
Result concerning Biruitorul
Since admins disagree above about whether a block is required here, I am not imposing one at this time. However, Biruitorul ( talk · contribs) has repeatedly and over an extended period of time violated his topic ban and has provided unconvincing reasons for doing so. For this reason, I am resetting his one year topic ban to begin anew today. Even if one assumes good faith about his claims that he believed he was acting within the scope of exceptions to his ban (which he was not), he has at least shown that he is unable to correctly determine the scope of any such exceptions. Therefore, the topic ban shall henceforth have no exceptions. For these reasons, under the authority of WP:EEML#Enforcement by block (second sentence) and WP:DIGWUREN#Discretionary sanctions, Biruitorul is hereby sanctioned as follows: He is banned from the topic of Eastern Europe, broadly interpreted, for one year or until the concurrent arbitral topic ban is lifted (whichever happens earlier). The topic ban imposed here has no exceptions with respect to edits considered to be vandalism, WP:BLP violations or otherwise problematic, but any explicit exceptions that ArbCom may in the future make to its topic ban (such as the permission to edit specific pages) shall also apply to the topic ban imposed here. For the avoidance of doubt, the topic ban imposed here covers all discussions, pages or parts of pages related to the topic, with the sole exception of participation in necessary dispute resolution (e.g., defending oneself against requests for sanctions, or appealing this decision); and "Eastern Europe" for the purposes of this decision includes any territory within the former Eastern Bloc. Sandstein 19:31, 7 May 2010 (UTC) |
Request for enforcement denied due to failure to place the user on notice of the existence of general sanctions. Stifle ( talk) 09:42, 19 April 2010 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Tuscumbia
Discussion concerning TuscumbiaStatement by TuscumbiaI created the article Zheleznovodsk Communiqué based on valid sources. The text that MarshallBagramyan ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) changed and kept reverting does not refer to the sources of the actual declaration. In other words, the very Declaration/Communiqué the article is about claims (in 1991 when it was signed) the conflict started "4 years ago", i.e. in 1987, clearly referring to first petitions collected by Armenians of Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh and subsequent mutual hostilities committed in Karabakh and Armenia (specifically mentioned in BBC article [6]). Of course, Marshall Bagramyan denounces the linked article right away as invalid, compiled by one journalist, etc while this is the journalist ( Thomas de Waal) on whose writings a considerable part of Karabakh conflict articles are quoted and based on. In other words, the user is being selective just because this particular quote from BBC approved text does not suit his edits and reverts. Moreover, I asked him and directed him to discuss his edits on the talk page ( [7], [8], [9]) and reach consensus before making the intended changes. As can be seen from this article about the helicopter shootdown related to Zheleznovodsk Communiqué, I reviewed his changes and came to consensus [10]. As for the Black January page, all changes made by unknown IPs were POV and I attempted to get them reach consensus on the talk page too before making those edits (if needed I'll provide all diffs to show the attempts). Tuscumbia ( talk) 16:21, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning TuscumbiaFrom what I see, in this diff, which was the first revert, Tuscumbia urged MarshallBagramyan to discuss, but he proceeded further, ignoring subsequent invitation to talk. For me the basic problem is that Marshal pushes a disputable background section, sourced with BBC News instead of more specific book, offered by Tuscumbia. Brandmeister t] 17:49, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
Result concerning Tuscumbia
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Hittit ( talk · contribs) warned. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Hittit
Discussion concerning HittitStatement by HittitI find this complaint highly absurd. The question is of one revert in which a sourced clarification I added was reverted by MarshallBagramyan. Furthermore, filing complains against those who contribute to the article with a range of sources and try to correct statement such as insinuating a relation between the invetion the term Genocide and the Armenians is childish. See my sources, the term was coined to refer to the Holocaust, attempts to suggest otherwise is manipulation and needs to be rapidly corrected. This complaint is unjustified and should be effectively ignored. Moreover, Wikipedia cannot be a hostage to Armenian editors deleting, reverting or filing compalains against those who want to correct the level of POV in the article. Hittit ( talk) 09:16, 17 April 2010 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning HittitResult concerning Hittit
I believe that this request is not actionable because the sanction by Moreschi displayed at the top of Talk:Armenian Genocide is likely invalid. Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2#Amended Remedies and Enforcement does not appear to allow for article-level sanctions of this sort; it appears to direct that sanctions must be directed at individual editors following individual warnings. If article-level sanctions are desirable, the Committee should be asked to amend their decision to provide for such sanctions. Sandstein 10:28, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
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Request not actionable: the subject had not been placed on notice by an administrator. He now has. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Marekchelsea
Disruptive editingUndiscussed cut’n’ paste move marked as minor edit [16] [17] Another undiscussed cut’n paste move marked as minor edit [18] [19] And another one undiscussed cut n paste move parked as minor edit [20] [21] Undiscussed move marked as minor edit with misleading edit summary “change name according to belarusian wiki)“ – while claiming that the change was made “according to belarusian wiki“ Marekchelsea was doing the opposite – moving the article from the name that is used in Belarusian wiki to the name that is not even mentioned in the Belarusian wiki. Just a "few" more undiscussed cut‘n‘paste moves [22] [23]; [24] [25]; [26] [27] User never discusses his moves or controversial edits despite being asked to do so, and thus promoting his personal agenda. The user was warned already in 2008 [28] twice [29] against removing text, without edit summary and was asked to discuss edits that are likely to be controversial on the article's talk page, but no progress in his behavior can be seen so far. Just now I asked him kindly to stop this disruptive practices [30] but after this, Marekchelsea instead simply deleted previous admin warning [31], and continues to make undiscussed controversial changes marking them as minor edits non stop [32]; [33] also continuing his stale revert warring at Jan Czeczot article [34] (prievious reverts [35], [36], [37]) Revert warringMarekchelsea was warned to avoid revert warring a couple times before. After being warned to avoid revert warring and obey WP:3RR, [38] and asked to discuss controversial changes at the talk pages [39], Marekchelsea continued his ways – most telling example is this article [40] Just at this article alone Marekchelsea made at least 17 reverts, multiple times breaking 3RR rule, of which he was aware by now, by making 4, 5 or even more reverts in 24 hours [41], [42], [43], [44], [45] and so on. Disruption during CfD and personal attacksAfter this CfD [46] that went not the way Marekchelsea desired – according to Marekchelsea consensus was simply wrong [47] - he created POV fork category which was soon nominated by uninvolved admin for deletion [48]. During this CfD Marekchelsea breached rules of WP:No personal attacks by attacking editor just because he expressed opinion opposing his views [49] Also CfD related revert spree accompanied by offensive edit summaries („this is sick“) aimed towards at least three wikipedia editors [50] is also worth noting.
Discussion concerning MarekchelseaStatement by MarekchelseaComments by others about the request concerning MarekchelseaResult concerning Marekchelsea
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User blocked for 8 hours for 1RR violation. Stifle ( talk) 14:51, 19 April 2010 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Lihaas
Discussion concerning LihaasStatement by LihaasComments by others about the request concerning LihaasResult concerning Lihaas
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
if one sees the discussion on the talk page for List of terrorist incidents, 2010#criteria for inclusions I have asked O Fenian for a debate where he refuses to debate the issue at hand but simply states : "This is not a list of bombings, so please do not add bombings..." + "If your only argument is that you intend to "ignore all rules" then this discussion is pointless" + "You either provide a source that describes the incident as terrorism, or it does not get added to the list." He then resorts to the tried and tested method of tag-team revertin with the user RepublicanJacobite from the the irish republican wikiproject (of which the two did the same on the RIRA/CIRA articles last year to remove the sources quotations from the IMC report of the time). On another issue on the page I had an issue with the addition of the Tapuah Junction stabbing incident which another editor added because wikipedia calls for editors to be WP:Bold. I'm currently in the process of debating with another editor why i think it is wrong to add and why he thinks it is right, as the onus is on me to challenge the info was agreeably left on the page till consensus. Then another editor comes along and adds this edit in question about RAAD, the 2 republican members seem to so politically charged that they dont want to discuss the issue or the criteria for inclusion (in general as per the topic of the debate) and refuse to discuss this but simply state the onus turns on us again. I have said it before in the debate that i agree there is stuff that shouldn't be on here but let's debate a criteria, yet they seem to think it is absolutely there preregotive to decide on an issue that suits them with scant regard for the talk facility. What is the point of a talk facility if political agendas have it there way without willingness to discuss? Even the hot-bed of the Middle East conflict is at least willing to discuss in the Jewish Exodus from Arab lands. Im not saying im right, im just saying have a debate fairly before removing. Then get consensus. Wikipedia explicity asked an editor to be bold and they remove without discussing it with anyone. Might as well get rid of all these rules then. (of which, btw WP:Ignore also states that rules dont have to be followed by the book, meaning WP:WTA has repercussions. Furthermore, another editor has also said how the list of terrorist incidents is unrelated to the troubles and that every act of terror/political violence in N. Ireland is not related to the troubles. Lihaas ( talk) 09:02, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
Why would i possible want to log out and log back in just to edit this? That to somethign that is blatantly similiar? If i was a sock puppet woudlnt i at least try to be different? My account seems to often log out on some comps im on b/c its a public facility or has low cache memory. i dont know what the reason is. Lihaas ( talk) 09:05, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
on what basis was this? on the whim of 1 person? No others, no other admins. Is this a politically driven wikipedia that 1 person can make demands have it passed? Simply because he asserts a relation with the troubles doesnt make it true? Mr. O Fenian is not a historian by an qualification not a policy maker nor a wikipedia admin/rule maker. as above, 2 editors on the issue have shown this to be otherwise. Why is there no apology for the block? And as shown above the second "revert" adds another source to work through consensus, yet for some reason wikipedia seems to believe that only those who update regularly have the authority to make demands on others. Lihaas ( talk) 10:57, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
Considering Lihaas is once again adding the incident which is unsourced as terrorism with an edit summary of vandalism -- watch what you delete I would request that a sanction (or sanctions) of some description is/are issued. Thank you. O Fenian ( talk) 07:19, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
I am finding it difficult to believe that straight after a block for a 1RR breach, an editor can breach 1RR again on the same article using a sockpuppet, continue edit warring after that, make accusations of vandalism, and that nothing is going to happen about this? When will it end? O Fenian ( talk) 09:11, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
Comment From my uninvolved view with this current issue. I have dealt with O Fenian before and I noticed from his comment of complaining about accusations of vandalism, this reminds me of a certain accusation here where he falsely accused me of vandalism while I attempted to fix an infobox which I was only able to do poorly due to template problems. Hypocrisy? The C of E. God Save The Queen! ( talk) 17:15, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
Various users placed on 1RR with requirement to discuss reverts. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Kedadi
Kedadi is a sterile revert-warrior on any topic related to Albania, a sort of self-styled "gatekeeper". Virtually all his article space edits consist of reverts [64], often with a hostile [65] or deceitful [66] edit summary (the version he reverted to is anything but stable). He has been particularly disruptive lately, always joining in whatever edit-war involving Albanian editors is going on [67] [68] [69] [70]. Whenever the other Albanian editors reach their 3RR limit, Kedadi is always there for that extra revert. He also almost never participates in talkpage discussions, except only to cast a !vote. Seeing how he appears to be a revert-only account, with minimal content building and causing considerable disruption, some sort of sanction, whether a revert limitation or topic ban seems appropriate. This has been going on far too long.
His talkpage is a graveyard of warnings, notifications, conflict, and hostility, generally reflecting his contributions [71] [72] [73] [74]. He has been topic-banned before [75] as well.
Revert limitations or topic-ban.
The situation on Albania-related topics has reached boiling point of late, causing an administrator to issue the following warning [76]. I am content to heed this warning. It appears Kedadi is not [77] (revert is after the warning was issued).
Discussion concerning KedadiStatement by KedadiAthenean, thanks for letting me know about your request. Below I'll try to respond to your request and to the comments you made below. >"Kedadi is a sterile revert-warrior on any topic related to Albania ..."
>"Virtually all his article space edits consist of reverts ..."
>"often with a hostile [79] ... edit summary"
>"His talkpage is a graveyard of warnings, notifications, conflict, and hostility, generally reflecting his contributions ..."
>"He has been topic-banned before as well."
>"The situation on Albania-related topics has reached boiling point of late, causing an administrator to issue the following warning. I am content to heed this warning. It appears Kedadi is not." >"Kedadi has done nothing but revert, revert, revert, since he joined in 2005."
>"Never discusses, never compromises, never stops."
--- @ Admins dealing with this case: as Fut.Perf. ☼ stated, there probably are other editors who deserve a sanction a lot more than I do. Cheers. kedadial 16:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning KedadiI just checked one of the latest performances of the reverting circus between the Greek and the Albanian crowds: Dardani. For crying out loud. Aigest ( talk · contribs) removes some alleged fact-bites, giving clear reason for the removal.( [80] and subsequent edits.) Megistias ( talk · contribs) reverts him with an accusation of "vandalism" [81]. Aigest explains on talk [82]. Nevertheless, Athenean ( talk · contribs), Alexikoua ( talk · contribs) and Megistias [83] [84] [85] revert him in tag-team four or five times, in what is apparently a kind of automated knee-jerk reaction for them. On the other side, Kedadi joins in the fray, reverting once [86]. Until, finally, the Greek team makes an effort to actually understand Aigest's point, and belatedly has to admit that he was right all along [87]. I can certainly see a list of people who need some kind of sanctions here, but Kedadi isn't necessarily on top of that list. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:02, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
I agree with FutureP and frankly I don't see any policy being violated by kedadi. In fact he has been very helpful in many projects like maintenance of WikiProject Albania. Like FutureP said he has made just 1 revert, while other users work in a kind of automated knee-jerk reaction without even trying to understand the situation. Kedadi made 1-2 reverts and Athenean who has made 3 reverts on Polyphonic song of Epirus reports him and asks for him to be topic-banned? For the record kedadi's last block was in 2006 (while Athenean's just a month ago), so the statement "his talkpage is a graveyard of warnings" is a harrasive attempt to convince the community that kedadi needs to be topic banned.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 09:19, 28 April 2010 (UTC) As FutureP noticed before what bothers me more is the automatic reverse by the above users especially Athenean and Megistias, without even trying to understand what actually others are saying. In Dardani article, Peresadyes (whatever their ethnicity might have been) were described as the forerunners of the dynasty of Bardyllis, and they were Thracians supported by Cambridge reference. After checking out the reference [92] it was clear that Peresadyes had nothing to do with Dardani, just like my comment while doing changes to the article. The reference is about Encheleae joining Peresyades, not Dardanians. Please be careful with the sources [93] [94]. As everybody can see from both my comments in these two changes, my concern was about their relation with Dardani which was not supported by the reference. I was automatically reverted by Athenean here [95] and just have a look at our comments. Mine was "Again the reference has nothing to do with Dardani, but it speaks about Encheleae joining Peresyades. Please don't misuse the sources" and Athenean comment was "No, the Cambridge Ancient History clearly states that the Peresadyes were Thracians. Please don't misuse the English language". Apparently Athenean doesn't have a clue about how the sources should be used in an article. With the excuse of bad English [96] he still continued to argue about the ethnicity of Peresadyes while my concern was the link between Dardanians and Peresadyes and not the ethnicity of Peresadyes. I had to cite a full page from the book here [97] and still I had the same problem [98] which were solved later [99]. What is more sad than funny is that the same problem existed before [100] and Megistias response was the same [101] rv vandalism while the other user (Lontech) made the same comment as mine "Your reference says nothing about dardani predecessors and your reference is not related to your writing" the response was again a revert [102] Seeing the whole story of Dardani we can notice that the worst things are:
I don't see any fault of Kedadi in this case and like FutPer said others may need some sanctions here. Aigest ( talk) 12:24, 28 April 2010 (UTC) I endorse all previous statements made from users that know well Kedadi's work: FPS, Aigest and ZjarriRrethues. I have never had a problem with user:kedadi. He is extremely communicative and his reverts are well founded. He performs an excellent job in maintaining the Albania Task Force and uses NPOV. I think that without him the Albania country Task force would have had no Albanians to maintain it in the last 5-6 months. Rather than trying to kick out excellent users, like user:kedadi, user:athenean should focus on building articles and improving them. I still have to see one single article started by this user and brought to Start status, however I have seen at least 20 reports of all colors initiated by him (and the target of which are Albanian users). These reports have several times attempted to boot from Wikipedia good users, such as Kedadi. Many times admins fall into the traps of these reports and Wikipedia ends up losing valuable contributors. Reporting users and asking for their topic ban is the last resort and should not be used losely otherwise it falls under wp:harassment and wp:Tendentious editing. I have been reported too many time by user:athenean and I have noticed that in the talk page of Arbac Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Macedonia#Statement_by_sulmues. I would invite FPS to publicly mention those users who make unfounded reverts and I would also invite the admin to read closely the true edit warriors with close attention to the content. Again Kedadi's reverts are well founded and content based and he is far from deserving anything asked as outcome in this report. Thank you for your attention. -- Sulmues Let's talk 13:40, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Let me get this straight, even if I am right at removing or adding smth to the article (just look at the Dardani example above), that will be dangerous because somebody might continue to not follow the rules?! One person should be accountable for its own actions and that is a fundamental principle. Assuming that everybody is the same within a specific nationalistic group, smells (excuse me FP) like racism. Returning to the example above I wouldn't put in the same level Alexikoua ( talk · contribs), Megistias ( talk · contribs) and Athenean ( talk · contribs). While Megistias ( talk · contribs) and Athenean ( talk · contribs) didn't bother to get my concern, Alexikoua ( talk · contribs) made only one rv and continued to talk in the talk page and after we agreed that I was right [103] and right now the article is more correct(ref and facts are related). This is a good example that going nuclear on all participants regardless of their actions (right or wrong) is very wrong and unproductive. Aigest ( talk) 15:07, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
I see but still I am not fully convinced, situations can be very complicated indeed. In the above example Athenean made two rv, Megistias one and Alex one so Megistias is the third rv and Alex is the fourth rv by the Greek team (sorry guys):). Sulmues made one, kedadi one and me also one [104] mine being third from Albanian team:) and after agreed with Alexi on talk page [105] I made fourth rv [106] (if it can be called rv) and the things were solved [107] [108] before administrators entered into scene later [109]. So in the end of the day by the proposed solution the persons ( Alexikoua ( talk · contribs) and Aigest ( talk · contribs)) who tried to understand each other [110] found a consensus [111] and improved the article, should be punished?! That's why I think that one person should be accountable for its own actions and punishments should be for its own behavior. Aigest ( talk) 15:33, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Note: this still requires action. The reverting circus is still travelling; currently it's at Greeks in Albania and Anastas Avramidhi-Lakçe. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:57, 1 May 2010 (UTC) Result concerning Kedadi
Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:36, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
User:Sulmues has proposed a possible solution on my talk. I would invite comments on same.
Stifle (
talk) 22:08, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
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Ліонкінг placed on notice of sanctions. Request otherwise closed without action.
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Ліонкінг
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2#Amended Remedies and Enforcement
I would add that Ліонкінг has recently used the "rv vandalism" edit summary to justify the removal of refs (including official census figures) and POV-pushing, restoring the "unreferenced" tag despite presence of sourced info: [122], [123], [124] etc. That pattern becomes disruptive. Brandmeister t] 21:10, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Discussion concerning ЛіонкінгStatement by ЛіонкінгBrandmeisterActually there is a hot discussion on it's talk page. In this discussion is participating 4 users, including me and a plaintiff. The size of this discussion at this moment is more than 16,000 bytes and it's seems that parties soon will have a compromise (according to the last post of User:Golbez who summed the arguments of User:Brandmeister and User:Tuscumbia from one side and my arguments from the other side. So to gain a compromise I've decided to stop renaming of this article. In renaming also have participated yet one pro-Azeri User:NovaSkola who even haven't give any statement in the Talk page. Also I want to add that I and plaintiff applied to the skilled Carlossuarez46 and we are still waiting for his help in this situation. I believe that the plaintiff had specifically filed a lawsuit to try to resolve the conflict, which is now being actively discussed by dishonest means. I think that any renaming of the article until consensus is simply a provocation. Yours -- Ліонкінг ( talk) 04:55, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
TuscumbiaI've just fullfiled this articles with real information from the last census which recognuse Azerbaijan and NKR - [126] and I've cleaned a wrong information according to which there was an Azeri census after the war, because simply Azerbaijan don't controle this teritories. Thereafter, this user is simply rolled back all of my edits, and interjected obviously false promotional information from the source of the census of Azerbaijan. Compare please my contribution page and his last contributions. That is, he did it openly, and he did it not assuming good intentions. Moreover, he has done all of my edits on my contribution, as well as calls my opinions nationalist, though I do not even add a link to a census of the NKR, and add a link to a census of the USSR in 1989 - the last census, in which both nations have lived in the same area. But despite this user continues to destructive actions, and together with his partner, simply trying to throw me out of the project, lobbying their one-sided point of view, which is misleading. I meant that I do not expect more from him good intentions, as he calls me a nationalist, I take it as a libel and defamation, for which I think he should suffer legal punishment. Yours -- Ліонкінг ( talk) 20:25, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning ЛіонкінгUser Ліонкінг ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) repeatedly vandalizes the pages Khojavend Rayon, Fizuli Rayon, Jabrayil Rayon, Lachin Rayon, Qubadli Rayon, Tartar Rayon, Agdam Rayon, Zangilan Rayon. Here are his edits: [127], [128], [129], [130], [131], [132], [133], [134] While reverting the sourced information, he calls the previous addition of sourced information "vandalism" replacing it with nationalistic data thus decreasing the number of last recorded Azerbaijani inhabitants (according to census) of these regions and renaming regions of Azerbaijan to Armenian names. Note that most of these regions are not even in the disputed Nagorno-Karabakh Republic. His actions are highly unacademic and highly disruptive. Moreover, he admits he will not assume good faith and implies he will continue his disruptive behavior, please see the diff here [135] I'd say he does fall under AA2. Please take appropriate actions warning him or consider blocking this user from English Wikipedia. Thank you. Tuscumbia ( talk) 20:09, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
I've gone through the articles mentioned above (basically, Azeri rayons currently controlled/claimed by the NKR) and removed all irrelevant (i.e. not about the rayon) and unsourced information. Hopefully this provides a baseline for better edits. -- Golbez ( talk) 20:35, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Site www.mct.gov.az and some statisticswww.mct.gov.az - azerbaijani propaganda site that contains false information Some statistic from www.mct.gov.az: "С 1988 года Азербайджан был втянут в вооруженный конфликт с Арменией. В результате военных действий в Нагорном Карабахе и прилегающих к нему районах - Кельбаджаре, Агдаме, Лачине, Джабраиле, Губадлы, Зангелане и Физули было оккупировано 20% азербайджанских территорий (20% of territory), а количество беженцев и вынужденных переселенцев с оккупированных земель достигло миллиона человек (million refugees). " Tom de Waal. Black garden: Armenia and Azerbaijan through peace and war. pp. 285-286:
Divot ( talk) 16:36, 29 April 2010 (UTC) Result concerning Ліонкінг
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
I followed an invitation to comment from WT:NOR, which has nothing to do with MOS, on an issue concerning three pages which have nothing to do with MOS, attempting to merge them into a MOS page. When I did so, I did not realize the target was a MOS page, I also thought that the restriction had lapsed (I'm not counting the days until I can continue with MOS, which is the intent of the restriction); but I will abide by any decision relating to WT:Words to watch.
However, I hope the decision will be to leave things alone. The restriction arises from a date-delinking case; this is a completely different issue.
This complaint is an abuse of process, attempting to Wiki-lawyer a loosely phrased reestriction, which will expire before long, into an area it was never intended to cover; similarly, the merge proposal is an attempt to bull through a change which has no consensus, and which will have the effect of expanding MOS.
Both of these flaws are endemic to MOS's way of conduct and to its regulars; is Tony's real objection to somebody pointing out this creeping imperialism? Or is it being reminded that MOS is widely (and justly) despised outside its Mutual Admiration Society? (Which is why I will not discuss the "guideline" if this merge passes; I will simply ignore it.) Septentrionalis PMAnderson 05:02, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
Tony has been attempting to gather together all my past actions; the result has described as Wikilawyering by third parties as well as myself. This continued effort to silence an inconvenient voice is really deplorable. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:10, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
To AGK: I have no intention of using this matter to recall any of the acting admins, if that simplifies matters. For what it's worth, I have not commented at WT:Words to Watch, and don't intend to do so either; this note on Carcharoth's talk page suggests that the matter has been settled, and that my intervention has been helpful. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:01, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
What I just read, the widened restriction, is as follows:
“ | …restriction re-widened to include the pages and talk pages of all MOS and style guidelines due to continuing disruption. | ” |
Quoting PMAnderson: …which have nothing to do with MOS… perhaps. It is, however, quite clearly “style guidelines”. Moreover, we once again seem to be seeing “continuing disruption”, which is what happens if one accuses an experienced editor who has been around since 2005 with “ vandalism” over a style guide issue ( Wikipedia:Avoid peacock terms) when it is quite clear that the edit PMAnderson reverted was over a legitimate difference in opinion and couldn’t properly be regarded as vandalism by any stretch of the imagination.
The reason for the topic ban on PMAnderson was to take a source of both the fuel and the spark from venues where debate was ongoing that were hot-button topics for him. The ban was widened because the scope of topics that were obviously hot-button issues proved wider than first thought.
As for PMAnderson’s protestation This complaint is an abuse of process, attempting to Wiki-lawyer a loosely phrased reestriction… I find he doth protest too much. The extended topic ban (“the pages and talk pages of all MOS and style guidelines”) is sufficiently clear. The motives and reasoning underlying the restrictions are even more clear.
As to the entire last paragraph of PMAnderson’s statement… (endemic flaws, the “regulars” on MOS, “creeping imperialism”), I frankly don’t know how to respond to that. Greg L ( talk) 06:13, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
Tony also takes care, when coming to venues like this, to use the truth and nothing but the truth in his posts. I find it unfortunate and telling when PMAnderson writes I did not realize the target was a MOS page when it was so easy for the inviting editor to come here (as she later did) to point out that her open invitation began with There's a proposal to merge several pages as part of a project to streamline the MoS. It appears to me that PMAnderson brings both the fuel and the spark to the style-guide coal mines and we simply don’t need that. Greg L ( talk) 15:53, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
I do not mind a sincere and civil vote by Pma, and I think people would have overlooked a genuine 'technical violation'. However, it goes way beyond that: he charges into a discussion – and on-going rewriting work – which has been going on in a very cordial, collegial and enthusiastic manner for some weeks, without apparently having read through the exchanges, and then proceeds to insult those who have given their hard work to consolidate the mess which resulted from gradual evolution. I find the repeated pattern of unprovoked denigration of others and dissing of their opinions unacceptable. Even here (above), his rhetoric is belligerent, and I note his vitriolic attack ("creeping imperialism") of Tony for filing this case. His anger-management does not seem to have improved a lot, if at all, since the dates case.
He may choose to forget that the broadening of the arbcom restriction was a result of previous disruption; to say it is "loosely phrased reestriction" (sic) is stretching credulity to the extreme - the wording is, I believe, crystal clear. There seems to be a serious disconnect between his statement that he wasn't aware it was a Style guideline, and his assertion that editing restrictions placed upon him had lapsed already. This version is the one which Pmanderson voted on. The very prominent {{ style-guideline}} tag at the top of the page is difficult to miss. The MOS tag has similarly existed on WP:PEACOCK since at least the end of 2007.
In view of the zero improvement in his behaviour, I believe a six-month extension to the topic ban to be entirely appropriate, to prevent further disruption. Ohconfucius ¡digame! 06:41, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
Pmanderson provides a reasonable explanation for what is only a technical violation, if a violation at all. And his comments, if read in context, are only barely objectionable. Hesperian 09:06, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
Just a point about Pmanderson's statement that he was responding to a request for comment posted on WT:NOR, and didn't realize it was connected to the MoS. I was the one who posted that request, and it's clearly connected to the MoS. I wrote:
Wikipedia talk:Words to watch#RFC. There's a proposal to merge several pages as part of a project to streamline the MoS. One part of the proposal is to merge Words to avoid, Avoid peacock terms, Avoid weasel words, and Avoid neologisms into a new page, Words to watch ( W2W). Fresh input would be appreciated at the RfC. [138]
SlimVirgin talk contribs 12:50, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
By editing Wikipedia talk:Words to watch and Wikipedia:Avoid peacock terms, which are labeled as being part of WP:MOS, Pmanderson has violated the extension of his topic ban to "the pages and talk pages of all MOS and style guidelines" by Shell Kinney ( talk · contribs), an arbitrator. However, I'm not sure abount the binding nature (and hence the enforceability) of this extension, because the Arbitration Committee's decision does not authorize discretionary sanctions by administrators (which could include such a ban extension) and nothing indicates that the ban extension is the result of a (public or non-public) vote of the Committee, either in the course of the original case or an amendment motion. For this reason, I am asking Shell Kinney to clarify whether his ban extension was made in the exercise of the Arbitration Committee's binding dispute resolution authority.
Per Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Carl_Hewitt#Post-case_clarification, I'd like to request semi-protection of Gödel's incompleteness theorems. Numerous IPs have been posting to the talk page recently, which was mildly tendentious but not worth any sort of enforcement action. However, today three IPs have edited the main article to expand on Hewitt's work. The use of numerous IPs matches the description in the section of the arbcom case linked above. The article was recently semiprotected for two weeks on Feb. 15 for the same reason. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 21:47, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Closed with no action. While there may be some technical violations of restrictions, this AE request is becoming a violation of WP:BATTLE. The parties are urged to discuss rather than reverting. An extremely dim view will be taken if the issue has to return here, and the reporter of any such case will find his/her behaviour scrutinised as much as the reportee. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning MarshallBagramyan
Discussion concerning MarshallBagramyanStatement by MarshallBagramyanHow extremely rude of you to jump out of the blue and seize this occasion to report me for a supposed infraction on an issue which you have never involved yourself in, Grandmaster. The violations that you allege are inaccurate: my first "revert" was simply re-adding a tag which had been removed at a time that a normal discussion was taking place ( here). My second "revert" was not a revert at all: after achieving a consensus on the talk page and after receiving a go ahead from another editor on the talk page, I redirected the article to it's proper location. The only actual edit that can be counted as a revert would be the last one, and even then, I was acting on consensus. How very shameful of you Grandmaster, This board's purpose here isn't simply to wait for an opportune moment to report and try to block your opponents; it's to report on actual vandalism and disruptive editing. I have been complying by the rules of the ArbCom to the best of my abilities.To advocate that the most stringent measures to be taken against me for this nonevent speaks very poorly on your part. To whoever is assessing this case: please go through my recent contributions and see how active I have been on the talk pages of articles to bring forth resolutions without resorting to constant, endless edit wars. -- Marshal Bagramyan ( talk) 06:51, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning MarshallBagramyan
BRD is not a justification for imposing one's own view, or tendentious editing without consensus... BRD is not a substitute for prior research which would support the initial edit or a reversion of it... BRD is not a process that you can require other editors to follow... BRD is not a valid excuse for reverting good-faith efforts to improve a page simply because you don't like the changes... BRD is not an excuse for reverting any change more than once... Based on Stifle’s comments I will assume WP:BOLD and continue work on the article. I find it absurd that after some one makes an article disappear from Wikipedia without the mandated to do so he is referred to have followed WP:BOLD. -- Hittit ( talk) 04:08, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
Result concerning MarshallBagramyan
Alright, I normally wouldn't edit this section with a mere warning, but it seems I need to use my administrator voice. Do not abuse any part of Wikipedia as a battleground. That means, leave your grudges on the other side of the keyboard and shut the hell up. If this nonsense continues, I will start issuing editing restrictions, or if the disruptive behavior continues, simply indef the lot of you. No more fighting, no more bickering, no more childish displays. -- Tznkai ( talk) 05:05, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
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One year topic ban of Biruitorul ( talk · contribs) reset to begin anew now with any exceptions removed. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Biruitorul
All edits are clearly within the scope of an Eastern European topic ban.
Discussion concerning BiruitorulStatement by BiruitorulComments by others about the request concerning BiruitorulRussavia, could you please briefly annotate your list of diffs with what article they concern, and why that article falls within the topic ban? For example, for your second listed diff : Andrei Pleşu, Romanian politician" would suffice.-- Tznkai ( talk) 19:38, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
And if I could add one more quick point, I find this edit summary ("sigh, add yet another topic ban breach by eeml'er") to be extremely incivil. A lot of bad blood has been created around this topic area (I, personally, was not responsible for that — I've barely had any interaction with the user filing this complaint), and it would be great if we could at least treat each other with a minimum level of decency in our public interactions. I'm not simply "eeml'er", I'm someone who's worked hard on this project for four years, who's used over 99.9% of his nearly 65,000 edits for constructive purposes, and who would appreciate my pride and dignity being respected, as called for by official policy. How about simply "add complaint"? - Biruitorul Talk 06:21, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
I'm not going to close this with a decision, but I'll say that I for one will not impose sanctions here, and would recommend the same to other admins – although evidently I couldn't stop them from applying the letter of the law if they insist. However, the rule of "preventative, not punitive" does apply to AE sanctions too, and given Biruitorul's latest statement above, and the overall positive nature of the edits (on which I fully trust Dahn's judgment), I really don't see what good a block would achieve. The fact that Biruitorul made these edits over a substantial period of time has been cited above as an aggravating factor. To my mind, it is the opposite: if he could make such edits for such a long time, without anybody raising objections, this just goes to show how non-disruptive they were, and the longer he did the more he had reasons to believe in good faith that it was allowed. Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:42, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
Also, I believe when the suggestion was made for you to do some backlog work, that it was on articles outside of your topic ban. Therefore, I propose that Biruitorul expand the following articles from Category:All articles to be expanded:
All of those articles are quite thin on detail, and there is a wealth of information on each of those relationships. As an example, he thought Kuwait–Russia relations (pre-expansion) should have been merged, and look at it now with a bit of expansion. If an article on a lesser relationship can be expanded to such a length, imagine what the above could be expanded to. This would help clear the backlog too. -- Russavia I'm chanting as we speak 00:35, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
Result concerning Biruitorul
Since admins disagree above about whether a block is required here, I am not imposing one at this time. However, Biruitorul ( talk · contribs) has repeatedly and over an extended period of time violated his topic ban and has provided unconvincing reasons for doing so. For this reason, I am resetting his one year topic ban to begin anew today. Even if one assumes good faith about his claims that he believed he was acting within the scope of exceptions to his ban (which he was not), he has at least shown that he is unable to correctly determine the scope of any such exceptions. Therefore, the topic ban shall henceforth have no exceptions. For these reasons, under the authority of WP:EEML#Enforcement by block (second sentence) and WP:DIGWUREN#Discretionary sanctions, Biruitorul is hereby sanctioned as follows: He is banned from the topic of Eastern Europe, broadly interpreted, for one year or until the concurrent arbitral topic ban is lifted (whichever happens earlier). The topic ban imposed here has no exceptions with respect to edits considered to be vandalism, WP:BLP violations or otherwise problematic, but any explicit exceptions that ArbCom may in the future make to its topic ban (such as the permission to edit specific pages) shall also apply to the topic ban imposed here. For the avoidance of doubt, the topic ban imposed here covers all discussions, pages or parts of pages related to the topic, with the sole exception of participation in necessary dispute resolution (e.g., defending oneself against requests for sanctions, or appealing this decision); and "Eastern Europe" for the purposes of this decision includes any territory within the former Eastern Bloc. Sandstein 19:31, 7 May 2010 (UTC) |