| POVbrigand ( talk · contribs) indefinitely banned from all articles and discussions related to cold fusion or fringe sciences, with an appeal contingent on the user publicly revealing their old account(s). The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 14:37, 25 June 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning POVbrigand
Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Abd-William_M._Connolley/Proposed_decision#Discretionary_sanctions
[1] Last paragraph, it reveals the WP:POINTYness of bringing the BaBar Experiment to FTN: "But in the meantime it would be good if we can stop being so hostile towards anything that is in conflict with this shaky standard model". Admission of pointyness: [2] My request was mostly tongue-in-cheek,
Previous arbitration enforcement request (no admins responded) Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive109#POVbrigand
The SPA Cold fusion advocate User:POVbrigand, (see also the user page [3] and the subpages: Special:PrefixIndex/User:POVbrigand/ for advocacy) has started to engage in very WP:POINTY disruptive behavior on the fringe theories noticeboard by bringing the BaBar_experiment to the noticeboard: Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard#BaBar_experiment. He said his ulterior motive wasn't the Cold Fusion article, but this line at the end shows to the contrary: "it would be good if we can stop being so hostile towards anything that is in conflict with this shaky standard model. ". The comment shows that this sort of disruption of the noticeboard is in the hopes of promoting a weakening of guidelines on Cold Fusion and not about the BaBar experiment, despite initial claims to the contrary. IRWolfie- ( talk) 09:46, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning POVbrigandStatement by POVbrigandI didn't want to upset people like this, maybe I should have known better, but it looked a good idea at the time. I honestly believed other editors would take it as I intended. I have promised on FTN that I will not use this tongue in cheek style again. In the past I have brought other topics at FTN in a normal sincere voice and that worked better in that I didn't hurt anyone's feelings. I did want to start a discussion about whether the claim "standard model is flawed" is currently fringe or not. And I also wanted to discuss what this "standard model is flawed" means to finge topic that are releated to the standard model. I got the discussion I wanted, SteveBaker's explanation that the claim might be called a "fringe hypothesis" is satisfying for me. So technically I feel that I did not misuse the noticeboard, but I admit I used the wrong style and I understand that other editors might feel betrayed or ridiculed. I didn't want that to happen, I apologize. I am very sure that it was not POINTY. I did want to make a point, but I did not make disruptive article edits. My activity on cold fusion is already slowly starting to wane, I am much more relaxed about the whole topic than say a year ago. I solemny swear that I will not be mischievous again.
I think that I know what the spirit of wikipedia is about. I am sincere 99% of the time and trying to improve things. If I read the comments here it seems to boil down to editors wanting me blocked or banned, because they feel that I wasted their time in the discussion. I think that is a bit far fetched. IRWolfie made two or three comments in the thread, Amble also made just a few. SteveBaker wrote most of the comments and I thank him for the discussion. What I did was not disruptive, I did not misuse the noticeboard by bringing up the discussion. The other point that is brought up as a reason to ban me is the fact that I am suspected for being a sock of Pcarbonn. The banned user SA / VanishedUser is arguing here on this arbcom case that I am a sock of Pcarbonn, previously he had argued that I was a sock of Lossisnotmore [6]. I have recently helped enforce Arbcom against his persistent ban evasion [7] All the edits I have made on cold fusion were not disruptive, the talk page edits were not disruptive. I think that all in all my work can be judged as perfectly acceptable. There is nothing in my activity of the last few months that justifies a block or ban. I do not try to sell cold fusion as mainstream, but I do have a valid but different opinion regarding NPOV than some other editors, hence my username. In the last months I think we managed pretty well to get some agreement on NPOV for the cold fusion article. I think that a few editors will be very please to see me banned, because they simply to hate my presence. They have taken this opportunity and they might get through with it, but I think it will not make WP a better place. As IRWolfie suggested below I also suggest interested admins also look at the archived case he brought against me. Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive109#POVbrigand. Also look at the repsonses by other editors supporting me. It seems to me that with this case he is trying to right the perceived wrong that I wasn't banned back then. -- POVbrigand ( talk) 00:55, 23 June 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning POVbrigandComment by involved User:SteveBakerI agree that this was clearly shown to be WP:POINTY in the end - I said as much on the fringe noticeboard. I'm concerned that POVbandit wasted everyone's time over on the fringe noticeboard with what turned out to be a self-admitted strawman. Technically, that constitutes disruptive editing - but I'm inclined to attribute this to over-zealousness rather than malice or bad faith. But since there is already an Arb decision on this that POVbandit is well aware of, perhaps he should have taken more care to make clear that this was a strawman rather than suggesting that the BaBar experiment article truly needed action due to some kind of infringement of WP:FRINGE. Mostly it was just a huge waste of time rather than being overtly damaging to the encyclopedia. SteveBaker ( talk) 13:07, 22 June 2012 (UTC) Comment by involved User:Hudn12The user in question is clearly User:Pcarbonn (Evidence from User:POVbrigand: "I have / had another account since mid 2004 that I currently do not use." which aligns with User:Pcarbonn, he claims he was never blocked which is for the Pcarbonn account, though misleading because he was topic banned as a sanction of an arbitration case, and he points out that English and German are not his first languages: indeed Pcarbonn's first language is French.) The community should wonder why arbcomm would allow this user to return to the very WP:BATTLEGROUND so that he could plainly renew the same tactics for which he was sanctioned in the past: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Cold_fusion#Pcarbonn. The behavior of this user has simply not changed at all. He was banned for one year the last time. It didn't help. You should consider banning him for much longer and stop letting him hide behind "clean start" accounts where he just picks up where he leaves off. Hudn12 ( talk) 16:45, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
Comment by previously involved User:HipocriteIt is impossible for POVbrigand to be Pcarbonn. POVbrigand's "clean start" was confirmed by Roger Davies. Pcarbonn is not eligible for a clean start, as he is subject to sanction. Hipocrite ( talk) 17:14, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
Comment by uninvolved User:Skinwalker(e/c with Hipocrite) The notion that POVBrigand=Pcarbonn is interesting but is probably not compatible with arbitrator RandyDavies' statement that there are no overlapping article edits with the previous account. Then again, Arbcom has been known to be less than forthcoming about the past behavior of "cleanstart" accounts. POVBrigand's early attitude and knowledge of the relevant policy debates suggests that he was not unfamiliar with the fringe science topic area. Skinwalker ( talk) 17:28, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
Comment by somewhat involved User:A13eanI have previously tried to give this user the benefit of the doubt, in my previous interactions with them they appeared to be a SPA that mostly followed wikipedia regulations. This episode, however, seems a clear attempt to waste everyone's time just to fight over an unrelated point. This is neither helpful nor productive. a13ean ( talk) 17:59, 22 June 2012 (UTC) Comment by User:Short Brigade Harvester BorisAlthough multiple independent data points suggest a connection between POVbrigand and Pcarbonn, it will avoid complicating things if this is decided without taking that connection into account. My evaluation closely echoes that of User:A13ean above. Short Brigade Harvester Boris ( talk) 22:17, 22 June 2012 (UTC) Comment by Roger DaviesHere's some background information on POVbrigand which may help:
That's the nitty gritty. Now it seems to me that a good question to ask is whether the creation of this present account with its unusual name is (i) to make good faith contributions to the topic or (ii) to seek attention/make some mischief, dancing about in the grey areas of policy in a contentious topic. Roger Davies talk 19:40, 22 June 2012 (UTC) Comment by involved IRWolfie-I have posted this separately to not detract from the original filling I think POVbrigand's response here is also hard to take seriously. In what appears to be a case of Wikipedia:Civil_POV_pushing it seems he is still adamant that he has done nothing wrong and was not POINTY and disruptive: I am very sure that it was not POINTY. I did want to make a point, but I did not make disruptive article edits, (emphasis mine) clearly WP:POINTY but he is unwilling or unable to recognise that this is disruptive. I also suggest interested admins look at the archived case (which it should be noted that no admins commented at) Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive109#POVbrigand. On his specific edits aimed at me: This: I have the feeling that he hates my guts appears as an attempt to discredit me. I will note that my simple request for clarification on any limits on his new single purpose account [10] were met instead with bad faith assumptions: [11] in a section named "User bugging me" he remarked that "Ever since he failed to get me kicked of the project with that Arbcom case he is bugging me with the same insinuations", and this related discussion: [12]. As far as I am aware I have interacted with this account as I would any other in a similar situation. I've just also seen this point by AGK above in an unrelated Enforcement discussion [13]: "in enforcing an arbitration decision, we rarely make copious assumptions of good faith, and I would advise against excessive leniency in respect of any editor's actions. After-the-fact admissions of misjudgement may likewise be taken into account only as a secondary factor." In this particular case we don't even have an after the fact admission for the core issue of WP:POINTY behaviour. IRWolfie- ( talk) 23:11, 22 June 2012 (UTC) Comment by involved OlorinishLike IRWolfie, I am also uncomfortable with POVBrigand's comment above that "I am very sure that it was not POINTY. I did want to make a point, but I did not make disruptive article edits." since it indicates that he does not understand the seriousness of his infraction. Although the edits were not article edits, they were still disruptive because they caused editors to spend time reading and responding to his comments when they could be doing more productive things, either for wikipedia or elsewhere. Everyone here is a volunteer, so wasting other people's time should not be acceptable. The best way to convince him of that is to ban him for some period of time. Olorinish ( talk) 23:30, 22 June 2012 (UTC) Comment by involved User:AgricolaeAs long as POVbrigand is counting coup, he can add me to the list of people who feel their time was wasted by his stunt, albeit for the last time. Agricolae ( talk) 02:26, 23 June 2012 (UTC) Result concerning POVbrigand
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| No action taken. T. Canens ( talk) 13:19, 27 June 2012 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Raeky
User seems to have a deep problem with reliable sourcing policy, including use of primaries, use of inappropriate sources, misweighting of unrepresentative sources, and citation policy. Events arose out of an existing RS/N report which was subsequently identified as a major sourcing problem by the RS/N community due to the hundreds of links in article space.
Discussion concerning RaekyStatement by Raeky
Comments by others about the request concerning RaekyAiG is not the publisher of Technical Journal and its hosting of contents is an apparent copyright violation. Technical Journal is a fringe christian apologetics journal, lacking any indication of weight in the fringe apologetics community, and lacking any indication of editorial review within its own limited fringe community. Fifelfoo ( talk) 04:04, 22 June 2012 (UTC) Moreover, in this instance, Technical Journal had two copyright violating links replaced with citations, and one claim "The Christian apologetics site Answers in Genesis, for example, makes frequent appeals to concepts from information theory in its objections to evolution and affirmations of the Genesis account of Creation; "[I]t should be clear that a rigorous application of the science of information is devastating to materialistic philosophy in the guise of evolution, and strongly supportive of Genesis creation."" that manifestly cannot be attached to Technical Journal as Technical Journal is not an organ of Answers in Genesis, removed. The source was retained as it supported a general point regarding fringe community views. Fifelfoo ( talk) 04:08, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
Comments by uninvolved Paul SiebertBrief analysis demonstrates that the source used by
raeky
t is hardly reliable, and definitely is not mainstream. Technical Journal is not in the Thompson-Reuter ISI list. A part of text added by this user is a verbatim quote from the web site he cites. That seems to comply with our
WP:NFCC rules.
Result concerning Raeky
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| VartanM ( talk · contribs) indefinitely banned from all articles and discussions covered under WP:ARBAA2, broadly construed. Yerevanci ( talk · contribs) blocked 24 hours and given formal notification. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 03:03, 28 June 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning VartanM
VartanM has been placed on indef 1RR and was previously blocked for edit warring and incivility. I find his recent comment at AFD discussion to be very incivil and insulting towards editors from Azerbaijan. In addition, I do not find this comment from another editor at the same board to be particularly civil either: [16] ARBAA2 made a specific provision for courtesy: [17]. I would like to ask for the admin attention to this issue. Grand master 06:35, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning VartanMStatement by VartanMMy point is that its summer outside, and you guys are wasting your lives on a stupid article. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. Hugs and Kisses. VartanM ( talk) 07:04, 26 June 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning VartanMResult concerning VartanM
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- This is a notification.
An administrator special enforcement action against Sceptre ( talk · contribs) has been challenged by an editor at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive241#Block review: Sceptre and AndyTheGrump. Uncle G ( talk) 12:35, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
| No action taken. EdJohnston ( talk) 21:23, 29 June 2012 (UTC) |
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Request concerning GDallimore
[20] User:Fifelfoo removes a suspected copyright violation by Answers in Genesis from Creation ministries international's magazine . The copyright violation is the large scale copying of Creation ministries magazine without copyright acknowledgement. It is being cleaned as part of this large scale cleanup: Wikipedia:RSN#Current_large_scale_clean-up_efforts of copyright violations and reliable source misuse. Since it is a suspected copyright violation it should not be linked to from wikipedia per WP:C. User:GDallimore restores the text several times [21] [22] [23], despite being told 1.considering the large scale copying of the magazine it is unlikely the text can reliably represent their views. 2. The text is a copyright violation and can not be linked to on wikipedia for legal reasons per WP:C, Diff [24] User_talk:GDallimore#Copyright_violations.
User_talk:GDallimore#Copyright_violations
Discussion concerning GDallimoreStatement by GDallimoreThis is a situation of a small number of users making large scale edits without consensus. There is no consensus that the links involved are infringing copyright. The reason there is no consensus is because there is no evidence that the links involved are infringing copyright. Someone posting something on their website and identifying it as being previously published in a magazine is, to the contary, evidence of good practice by the website. Don't get me wrong, I have seen some edits being made as part of this large scale clean up of AiG links which were good and much needed. I have not reverted edits to Young Earth Creationism, for example, where I thought the edits were constructive even when I disagreed with much of the underlying reasoning. But making edits without consensus which do NOT improve the article is not acceptable practice. GDallimore ( Talk) 15:03, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
Statement by User:Raeky
Statement by User:Dominus VobisduI'm not convinced that there is any copyright infringement going on here. Answers in Genesis and Ceation Ministries Internation split in 2006, and yes, there were legal wranglings over copyright issues. However, those were resolved in 2009. [ [28]] I find it implausible that Answers in Genesis is using CMI material without the requisite permission in violation of the settlement. Dominus Vobisdu ( talk) 01:56, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
Statement by User:FifelfooAs in the case above related to this matter, I believe an official warning under this sanction's discretionary sanctions is the most required. We cannot presume that AiG holds a licence for anything published by another organisation, we need to rely on documentation from either or both organisations that meets an adequate standard of reliability demonstrating that AiG holds such a licence; the presumption holds against due to the horrors attendant upon copyright violation. Further, publications by another body and duplicated in a horrifically inept manner on AiG's website do not represent the opinions of AiG. AiG publishes two rags, Answers and Answers research journal that specifically represent their opinion. In addition AiG publishes a variety of content on their website which isn't in breach of copyright and which appears to have originated with AiG themselves—this is appropriate content to attributing the Self-Published Sources "self" opinion. Finally, many if not all of these problems would have been solved if editors working in this FRINGE area had correctly cited material in the first place. Citing Technical Journal would have lead editors to Technical Journal's actual archive to locate the volume, date and issue information—full citations tend to expose many of the issues that raw links do not expose. For one, it would make editors consider if "Jeff Bloggs" or "Jane Doe" actually represents the opinion of AiG when writing, or if they merely represent their own opinion published by AiG (for instance, by checking AiG's speaker's list or staff list). It is reasonable that inexperienced editors make these mistakes in a complex area like FRINGE editing, it is less reasonable when they revert content they appear to be unfamiliar with over policies they're unfamiliar with. Such conduct merits counselling and improved editing skills assistance. It certainly isn't at a disciplinary stage above a warning to indicate that this is a problematic form of editing in an area where problematic editing has systematically disrupted the encyclopaedia. Fifelfoo ( talk) 02:21, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
Result concerning GDallimore
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| blocked one week-- Slp1 ( talk) 23:43, 30 June 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning GoodDay
Although HandsomeFella's edit changed several wikilinked names of individuals to non-diacritic versions (hence my complaint), I also note that HandsomeFella spoke disapprovingly of GoodDay in the recent ArbCom case (see here). There seems to be a contradiction here, and I don't claim to have a good explanation for it. I still believe that the exchange between HandsomeFella and GoodDay (on GoodDay's talk page), in conjunction with HandsomeFella's edit, raises reasonable questions as to what might have been going on, and at the very least, it is not out of order to ask for an explanation. — Rich wales 22:40, 27 June 2012 (UTC) HandsomeFella's editing of the names in question could also have been influenced by WP:HOCKEY, which in its current form says that North American hockey pages should generally not use diacritics in player names. This statement, as best I can tell, was added in June 2007 by GoodDay — apparently after some discussion which I was not able to locate just now. I suppose WP:HOCKEY's diacritics guidelines might (or might not) need to be revisited in light of the ArbCom ruling. — Rich wales 23:24, 27 June 2012 (UTC) A discussion is in progress on GoodDay's talk page regarding the interpretation of his topic ban. — Rich wales 01:19, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning GoodDayStatement by GoodDayAt my Userpage, I posted my discouragement over the lack of maintanence by WP:HOCKEY, concerning 2 articles Nashville Predators, Los Angeles Kings & diacritics. I wasn't aware that I was censored from my Userpage, concerning this topic. GoodDay ( talk) 03:07, 28 June 2012 (UTC) I still disagree with being barred from mentioning certain topics on my pages, but I will refrain from mentioning them in future. As for those editors who are calling for my indef-block? You've (plural) strenghtened my resolve to never retire from Wikipedia. No matter how sharp your (plural) daggers become, I won't quit. GoodDay ( talk) 13:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning GoodDayThis is the very definition of frivolity. D B D 22:52, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
The ban says " or participating in any discussions about the same, anywhere on the English Wikipedia." his edit in his talk page is practically begging for other people to make the changes on his behalf. He even says which articles need to be changed. -- Enric Naval ( talk) 09:30, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Statement by HandsomeFellaMy edit was a perfectly good one, and it has not been reverted. I have made hundreds of those before, and they follow WP:MOS and the WP:HOCKEY Project Notice. I wish that Richwales had informed himself better before he went on to pick on me on my talkpage, so he wouldn't have to be so surprised at finding a "contradiction" for which he has "no good explanation". Had he done that, he would have found that GoodDay has an extreme position on diacritics, in addition to a history of editing disruptively along his beliefs, something he has been criticized for by many editors, including myself. – There's the explanation, RW. Inform yourself and you will reduce your level of surprise. That said, it's not a personal thing to me, so I find no reason to abstain from correcting flaws, just because GoodDay occasionally has the same view. I'm not that childish. I request that any request for enforcement of any kind against me is dropped, and the sooner the better. HandsomeFella ( talk) 19:39, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Result concerning GoodDay
I'm going to echo EdJohnston wrt GoodDay
[29], the RFAR ruling: "GoodDay is indefinitely prohibited from making any edits concerning diacritics, or participating in any discussions about the same, anywhere on the English Wikipedia" is anything but ambiguous, and GoodDay's talk page post is in breach of that ban. That is open and shut. However of whether this
[30] is worth a 30 day block I'm less certain. I'm inclined to go with a last & final warning for GoodDay and leave it there, but with the caveat that any further behaviour in breach of the RFAR should result in immediate sanction (1 month block). I'm open to suggestions, or convincing if other sysops have any ideas.
Reviewing the recent edits as well as the arbitration case, it seems clear to me that this is a breach of both the letter and the spirit of GoodDay's topic ban. It appears to be part of a pattern of him testing out the limits of what the community will permit; similarly, he persisted in editing the Zoë Baird article while the arb case was underway, all the while crying " censorship" just as he is doing currently. So I think a block is in order here; we are past the point of warnings. A month seems much, but I would suggest a two-week block. Paul Erik (talk) (contribs) 03:17, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
As a sitting arbitrator I'm not going to comment on the merits of the enforcement case, but I will observe that whether a topic-ban includes the user's own talkpage is a constant source of disagreement. I have tried sometimes to make sure this is addressed one way or the other in decisions I draft, but it doesn't always happen; and the same issue arises in community-originated topic-bans as well (such as with the dispute concerning Sceptre this week). Both arbitration decisions and community discussions should strive for greater clarity on this issue (and the right result may vary from case to case). If we ever post a proposed decision with a topic-ban that leaves this point unclear, please point it out on the talkpage so we can fix it at the time and save the enforcement board this type of hassle. Newyorkbrad ( talk) 13:49, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
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| TheShadowCrow ( talk · contribs) is banned from all articles and discussions covered under WP:ARBAA2 for 6 months, broadly construed. TheShadowCrow is also warned that continued violations of the biographies of living persons policy will trigger sanctions under WP:BLPSE. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 03:35, 2 July 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning TheShadowCrow
Another very problematic user in AA area. He was warned about AA remedies, warned about inappropriateness of edit warning, and violations of WP:BLP rules. Despite all of that, he made a very inappropriate edit to the BLP article about Azerbaijani chess player Teimour Radjabov, with inflammatory edit summary (now revdeleted): [32] After I rolled back that edit, he edit warred to restore it: [33] TheShadowCrow was blocked for 72 hours by CT Cooper for persistent violations of the biographies of living persons policy: [34], which is the second block of TheShadowCrow within the last 4 months. Since TheShadowCrow proved to be a problematic editor in AA related area, I think the admins may need to consider placing this editor on some restriction in the arbitration covered area to prevent further disruption in the future. Grand master 19:06, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning TheShadowCrowStatement by TheShadowCrowComments by others about the request concerning TheShadowCrowTheShadowCrow is not currently subject to restrictions under these sanctions because he has not been given the required initial warning. Despite what Moreschi says here [36], he DID NOT notify TheShadowCrow. This [37] is not a notification. This request by Grandmaster should, at the most, be a request for TheShadowCrow to be given that initial warning so that TheShadowCrow becomes subject to them. However, I doubt the need for even that, given the edits cited are all BLP issues and seem to have been dealt with. Meowy 20:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
Since we had to discuss Meowy here, I think it is worth to take a look at the history of his contribs after his return from a 1 year block in February this year. Meowy stood up for almost every sanctioned user who was sharing the same content views with him, wikilayering and petty bickering sometimes in violation of his ban on participation in AA enforcement discussions that have no direct relation to him. For instance, here he was objecting to the block of two disruptive accounts which were trying to game the 500 edit restriction: [39], and Meowy's incivil comments caused the admins to consider blocking him. Meowy's interactions with the enforcing admins at their talks were also in rude violation of civility norms: [40] [41] [42] I think this user should be restricted to make only comments directly related to the content of the articles, as his participation in any discussions unrelated to the article content is not really helpful. Also, back in 2007 Meowy was placed on indef 1RR per week restriction, civility supervision, etc: [43], which was logged here: [44] Is that restriction still in force after his return from a 1 year block? The reason why I'm asking is because of the large content removals and reverts he made recently on Khojaly Massacre: [45] [46], which were eventually restored by an uninvolved editor. Grand master 09:30, 30 June 2012 (UTC) Result concerning TheShadowCrow
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| IP Blocked 2 weeks by T. Canens back on July 2. - Penwhale | dance in the air and follow his steps 19:21, 15 July 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning 99.237.115.11
Special:Contributions/99.237.115.11 is yet another Rogers Cable IP that locates near to Toronto making...let's call them sub-optimal edits in the topic area. The diffs show disruptive nationalist POV pushing.
Given that Template:Uw-sanctions says "Discretionary sanctions can be used against an editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, satisfy any standard of behavior, or follow any normal editorial process" something needs to happen to this editor and/or to the articles they are editing to make sure the IP can't continue to disrupt them and I'm not thinking of a warning. I think the topic area would be much better served if editors like this, who clearly don't belong in the topic area, were just blocked on sight under the sanctions. Sean.hoyland - talk 18:06, 1 July 2012 (UTC) @Ankh, "opportunistic behavior" ? I don't benefit in any way by this editor being blocked nor do I suffer in any way by their presence. It's not about me. It's about the project. I have no intention of collaborating with this IP. Someone can try to re-educate them but it won't be me because I don't believe it's possible given the nature of the edits. Also, please don't disrupt this AE or follow me to the Operation Sharp and Smooth to insert material like this when I'm trying very hard to make sure that article absolutely complies with policy by going through it sentence by sentence and source by source. Sean.hoyland - talk 19:30, 1 July 2012 (UTC) Also Ankh, regarding your "and his general 'collaborative behaviour' should be considered" comment. You != general. You are another editor I won't collaborate with. That's my choice. In fact you are the only editor in over 5 years of editing that I've banned from my talk page, which is rather significant given that I'm happy to tolerate all sorts of bigoted attacks and threats of violence from some of the lunatics that occasionally drop by to tell me things that are apparently important. Sean.hoyland - talk 19:53, 1 July 2012 (UTC) Okay, I see that Ankh is planning to continue to troll here and hound me by following me to the Operation Sharp and Smooth article so my work on that article is now terminated. It's not worth the trouble. I have also removed this report from my watchlist and trust the admins to deal with the IP is any way they see fit. Sean.hoyland - talk 21:29, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning 99.237.115.11Statement by 99.237.115.11Comments by others about the request concerning 99.237.115.11
This is an extraordinary request. Even without examining the nature of the edits some of which appear to be content disputes, the user is quite new to Wikipedia and yet the filer of this complaint has not seen fit to discuss these edits at all on the user's talk page. Nor has the complainant seen fit to warn him of his conduct or of the ARPBIA sanctions but has instead rushed headlong to seek Arbitration enforcement to disqualify an editor that has a different standpoint. This opportunistic behavior from an experienced editor is not appropriate and his general 'collaborative behaviour' should be considered. Ankh. Morpork 18:56, 1 July 2012 (UTC) Sean - I am glad that you are seeking to improve this article in a proper manner which sharply contrasts with your previous editing of this article where you inexplicably added the unreliable the United Jerusalem Foundation views and this dubious source to the article. I have edited this article and its talk page before your involvement and your omission of your previous undoing of my work and claim of hounding are disingenuous. Since you respond with a faux-naif "opportunistic beaviour?", I shall remind you what you previously said: "Oncenawhile and you are both editors who are quite capable of collaborating and improving articles, but for reasons that elude me, you have decided to go from, let's say, civilian (building an encyclopedia according to policy by working with other editors) to combatant (not collaborating and using AE as a weapon instead)." This seems remarkably pertinent to your own behavior at AE which has previously warranted an administrator warning. As Buddha said, "However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them?" Ankh. Morpork 20:14, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
Result concerning 99.237.115.11
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| No action taken. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 01:15, 6 July 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning PANONIAN
In contrast with a previous ArbCom request against PANONIAN (and as per the links above), I was "only" able to find WP:ICANTHEARYOU and an absolute failure to WP:AGF. This latter is a particularly prevalent pattern in PANONIAN's behavior, which is palpable from his numerous talk page entries as well:
I think that these statements of his just confirm that he's still just as keen in sparking tensions between editors of Hungarian-related (history-wise or other) articles as he was e.g. a year ago:
In the ANI entry an admin ( Future Perfect at Sunrise) has expressed a wish for an ArbCom report too, citing the same arguments as I did above (albeit in a bit fancier way). Personally I have to say that a topic ban for PANONIAN regarding any article that can be connected to Hungarians (e.g. including articles dealing with ALL of Slovakia's history, cities etc. too) is absolutely necessary in order to avoid any additional large-scale disruption to those articles. In reply to @VolunteerMarek: Yes, I'm sorry that I hasn't made that point clear (it was 3am in the morning when I've finished, so I might've overlooked it). Anyway I think that a remedy as per WP:ARBMAC is insufficient, since PANONIAN has just move to a slightly different region ("Estern Europe", broadly defined) and does the same as he did in the regions where WP:ARBMAC applies. Thus I deem an WP:ARBEE remedy to be necessary too. -- CoolKoon ( talk) 10:39, 1 July 2012 (UTC) @PANONIAN: yes, you're right. I should've said propaganda instead of counter-propaganda in the post you've hastily removed from your talk page, my bad. As for your statement there's nothing wrong with being against nationalism (in fact I strongly encourage that). The reason I've filed this request however is that you seem to view almost every single Hungarian editor you encounter as an avid supporter of "Great Hungarian nationalism/imperialism" (which apparently means that you don't WP:AGF), which renders any attempts at a discussion and reaching a compromise futile. And ironically (as much as you deny this fact) it's enough for me to cite your old and new posts on this topic (the upper half of the report contains only fresh posts of yours with the maximum age of 2 weeks tops), because they really speak for themselves. -- CoolKoon ( talk) 11:03, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning PANONIANStatement by PANONIANThis thread is just personal attack of CoolKoon against me due to the fact that I opposed his position in Talk:Bratislava. Note that in this specific case I only tried to implement Wikipedia naming conventions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(geographic_names)#General_guidelines (according to these conventions, if there are more than 3 alternative names for the city, such names should be moved to "Name" section). I had only one original edit in several city articles, I was not involved in revert warring and I opened discussion on talk page. As for my statements, I have liberal political views, I support all historical and modern independence movements, and I oppose all kinds of "greater" nationalist ideologies that aiming to impose rule of one nation over another one. Therefore, I did spoke against various forms of such nationalism in various pages (CoolKoon only picked some of my statements against Hungarian nationalism, but here you can see me (for example) speaking against Greek nationalism: [53]. So, the question is: is one allowed to oppose nationalism in Wikipedia or not?). As for user:CoolKoon, this is the user who publicly stated on my talk page that his goal in Wikipedia is propaganda: [54] - Quote: "I have to disappoint you regarding the prospect of disseminating Pan-Slavist nationalist lies too: they've been spread for too long and their crimes went silent and unnoticed for too long. Various Slavic (mostly Slovak and Serbian) propaganda materials about the history of Hungary have been circulated across the globe for too long without the remote possibility of offering at least a NPOV let alone a counteropinion. Fortunately all the cruelties have been well-documented (and many of them well-researched), so the stories will hopefully start to live a life of their own. And when that happens, no amount of counter-propaganda will be able to stop it, because they can't stand a chance against truth (not "perceived" truth which's basically lies disseminated as truth, but a well-documented and properly sourced truth). " Or to repeat his words bolded: "no amount of counter-propaganda will be able to stop it" - this is obviously the user who thinks that he is here to implement propaganda and to fight against "counter-propaganda". PANONIAN 08:47, 1 July 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning PANONIANStatement by Volunteer MarekI'm not seeing any kind of violation of any ArbCom remedy here. The topic ban is for Serbia not Slovakia or Hungary or Germany. The rest is just "ye ol' content dispute" (mostly a result of the fact that Wikipedia is too fucked up and lazy to be able to come up with a coherent naming policy so you get these kinds of disputes all over the place) + the usual diff padding (some very old, irrelevant and out of context) and poisoning the well. VolunteerMarek 06:30, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
Statement by NmateVolunteer Marek is right in that PANONIAN and CoolKoon are in dispute over content; however, CoolKoon's concern regards the way in which PANONIAN conducts himself in the content-dispute. It is important to note that Volunteer Marek also took sides in the aforementioned content-dispute [55], which is not a problem of course. However, it is hardly possible to consider Volunteer Marek as an uninvolved user after that. As for the freshness of evidence, Volunteer Marek is also right in that: some diffs are very old here. However, following arbitrator SirFozzie's advice [56], the policy does not explicitly prohibit bringing old diffs up as long as the evidence relates to current events. Withal, Volunteer Marek is also right in that: the topic ban is for Serbia not Slovakia or Hungary or Germany. Therefore, PANONIAN did not violate his topic-ban technically, even if he challenged one another user on Wikimedia Commons for his/her Serbian-related edits that were made to the English Wipedia [57]. On the other hand, it should be taken into consideration that is whether a good idea to get into a debate over ethnic naming disputes that fall under the Eastern Europe arbitration case after receiving an indefinite topic ban on all articles related to Serbia. Also, I've seen arbitration cases for less. For example, there was an Arbitration case in which User:Hangakiran received an indefinite topic-ban [58] when the submitter's grievance was that Hangakiran continues to refer to his opponents' ethnicity in a content dispute, thereby creating a battleground atmosphere [59]. I do not know how comparable referring to another users' ethnicity in a content dispute to certain statements that PANONIAN has recently made about Greater Hungarian nationalists : [60] [61]-- Nmate ( talk) 10:47, 1 July 2012 (UTC) Statement by KoertefaIt is needless to say that there are lot of nationalistically motivated disputed about articles related to East-Central Europe. Resolving these disputes and reaching a consensus is not an easy task, it requires understanding and accepting other viewpoints on the history and on the current situation of the area. There are many hidden tensions which, if not handled with care, can easily lead to heated disputes, name callings (for example, calling others nationalists) and battleground mentality. My main problem with several comments given by PANONIAN is that they rather intensify the conflicts instead of helping to find a common ground. Saying that Hungarian nationalists are (and always were) "evil" and aim at imposing "foreign rule on other nations" [62], saying that the only reason to include other names in the lead of an article is to "remind Slovaks about their former slavery" [63] and Greater Hungary nationalists (who, according to PANONIAN, want to rule "minor races" [64]) "force" these names into the lead [65], does not help to resole the disputes at all. I can hardly accept PANONIAN's defense that he only fights nationalism. I think that many nationalists would say that they were only fighting nationalism (of other nations). If PANONIAN really wanted to fight nationalism, he should have started with his own nation's extremists. Since his contributions are sometimes more disruptive than helpful, he should be reminded to be much more careful and open minded in these matters. All the best, KœrteFa {ταλκ} 11:10, 2 July 2012 (UTC) Result concerning PANONIAN
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| appeal declined |
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Statement by TheShadowCrowThe guy who said this is my first real warning was right. Before, with the incident involving Cooper, the issue was repeaded editing. And what we were editing over had NOTHING TO DO WITH AA. This time it was about expressing opinion in edit summarys. No one ever really told me I shouldn't do that, they just linked a page to rules without explaining which one I was breaking. Six months is unfairly wrong and I'd like it to be much shorter or none at all, which would make sense because three days is plenty for a first offense. The only problem I see was I voiced my opinion in the summary. Besides that, there was nothing wrong with my edit. It was actually an older edit, but after some time azeris began to put speculation (or more acctuaratly, denial) that the chess player said anything racist. They imply he was wrongly quoted but there's no proof to that anywhere. Grandmaster even told me in a previous debate that we have to go with the reference even if have have reason to believe it's wrong. So no, I don't see any problem. This was the first offense I have had on a AA page and to ban me for six months over it is completely zealous. Cenk Ugyar is a biased Turkish-American talk show host. He is neither Armenian nor Azeri and doesn't talk about AA issues on his corrupt show. So the only other reason I could be banned from AA is for violating BLP, but that seems pretty shallow seeing as how there was nothing wrong with my actual edit. Me and Grandmaster have debated over AA issue before and we did so peacfully, so I have also shown I am capable of using the talk page and not resorting to edit wars on AA subjects. I admit I was wrong to put opinion in the summary. But I feel that the three day ban I recieved for that was sufficent punishment. Banning me from AA articles doesn't solve anything. If I had vandalized several of their pages, that would be a sufficent point. But I never vandalized that actual page of Teimour Radjabov. So, just HOW can I be banned for six months from something I have never vandalized the actual page for? Someone (He has no real name anymore because he has made many different accounts, but his IP is usually 178) in the boxing articles I edit is always swearing at Admins and cussing at fellow editors who disagree with him. He has been banned dozens (yes, dozens) of times for such acts, but never for more than a day or so. If you don't believe me, ask Materialscientist. He has carried out most of this user's bans. If a real vandal can swear at Admins, start seveal edit wars and put countless slurs in the history tab and only be banned or a few days, where is the justice in me being banned for six months over one history BLP violation, but no actual artical vandalation? -- TheShadowCrow ( talk) 02:38, 5 July 2012 (UTC) I would like to point out two false things Cooper and GM said: Cooper claims I was saying I didn't do anything wrong on the Uygur page. If you read my statement you will see that I never said that. Grandmaster doesn't realize he was also a part of the editwarring that took place on Armenians in Azerbaijan. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to comment here, but I had two point out their false statments somewhere where the uninvolved editors would see. And I would like to point out once again Uygur has nothing to do with AA, so I don't see how anything I did on his page can contribute to a ban from AA. -- TheShadowCrow ( talk) 16:49, 5 July 2012 (UTC) Statement by The Blade of the Northern LightsInstead of repeating everything that CT Cooper says below, I'll ask you to read that. I will also say that even on the off-chance those articles aren't covered under ARBAA2, as I and others think they are, TheShadowCrow's edits to them are indicative of someone who doesn't need to be editing in such a contentious area; such editing requires tact, a willingness to collaborate, and an ability to follow basic policies such as those outlined below, none of which are demonstrated. That's why I imposed the topic ban, and I'd encourage other admins to uphold it. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 15:51, 5 July 2012 (UTC) Statement by CT CooperAs it stands, I oppose any lifting of the sanctions placed on TheShadowCrow. His comments above in my view demonstrate that he has failed to properly understand how he has violated policy and why he was blocked and sanctions were placed on him. It also shows that the mentality of his attitude to editing Azerbaijan-Armenia articles is that of advocacy and grinding axes, rather than to build a neutral encyclopedia with respect to policies such as WP:BLP, WP:V, WP:NOR and WP:NPOV, and hence disallowing him from editing such articles is appropriate. In his comments above he has regurgitated several arguments he earlier placed on my talk page, arguing against the sanctions and other actions taken against him. In his comments on my talk page, he has also made some troubling remarks, the worse in my view being his speculation that I was a Turk living in Germany, clearly done in an attempt to discredit the warnings and block he has received from me for violating WP:BLP policy. If such behaviour continues, I will arguing that an AA topic ban is too lenient, and that a project wide ban is justified. All interactions between me and TheShadowCrow can be found at these revisions: 1, 2. A summary of my response to his arguments is as follows:
CT Cooper · talk 12:44, 5 July 2012 (UTC) @The Shadow Crow: I have read your statement, and I quote: "So the only other reason I could be banned from AA is for violating BLP, but that seems pretty shallow seeing as how there was nothing wrong with my actual edit." If you weren't talking about the Cenk Uygur article then you should not have placed that comment straight after an attack on Cenk Uygur in the same paragraph. There is nothing in your statement which recognizes that the edits you made to the article and to the talk page were in violation of WP:BLP policy, which is what resulted in a warning. @Grandmaster: Thank you for the link. I think that should settle the issue. CT Cooper · talk 17:47, 5 July 2012 (UTC) Statement by GrandmasterThe question whether the articles like Cenk Uygur fall with the scope of AA topics was discussed here: [66] with regard to the article Van cat. My understanding of it is that Armenia-Turkey related articles fall within that scope. Also, after edit warring on AA article Armenians in Azerbaijan TheShadowCrow was warned by Moreschi not to edit war and engage in discussions at talk. This is clearly something that TheShadowCrow did not do on Teimour Radjabov despite the warning (in addition to WP:BLP violations in that article). So this is clearly not the first incident in AA topics involving this user. Grand master 14:31, 5 July 2012 (UTC) Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by TheShadowCrowResult of the appeal by TheShadowCrow
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| Topic banned indefinitely. T. Canens ( talk) 05:15, 11 July 2012 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Ottomanist
Ottomanist, formerly known as Interestedinfairness ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is a returning user that has been particularly disruptive of late. In his previous incarnation, he had racked up 3 blocks in less than two months as well as a topic ban on Kosovo for aggressive behavior and edit-warring [71]. His talkpage was a graveyard of blocks, warnings, conflict, and aggressive incivility on his part [72]. It's been pretty much the same since his return. He was recently blocked after a particularly nasty bout of disruptive behavior on Republic of Kosovo and making comments such as these [73] [74]. Since then, nothing's changed. In Albania, he has been slow-revert warring incessantly since June 23rd [75] [76] [77] [78] [79] [80] [81] [82], either removing this map [83] or adding this one [84], and shows no sign of stopping. In the talkpage,he keeps admonishing other users that they are disruptive [85] [86]. In a discussion in Talk:Serbia, after what seemed like a promising start, things take a very nasty turn after I criticize one of the sources he used [87], and all of a sudden it's all about the "so-called Greek nation" and how "some editors" have "issues" [88]. It is clear that "some editors" means me, and that this is nothing more an attempt to get under my skin. Greece and the Greek people have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand. He makes no attempt to rebut my criticism of Stanford J. Shaw, he just makes things personal. Several days later, he makes a particularly tendentious edit at Greeks [89], and proceeds to edit-war over it, getting more and more agitated with each revert [90] [91] [92]. This in spite of the fact that he has been reverted by several different users and has been told by them on the talkpage that his edits are problematic [93]. Instead of changing tack, he assumes a conspiracy against him [94], while at the same time admonishing other to assume good faith [95]. He just repeats over and over that his edits are sourced, but I actually meticulously checked the sources (and I invite everyone else to do likewise, they are available online) and they say nothing of the kind. Similarly in Serbia he makes a tendentious edit [96] and then reverts back to it while admonishing others to reach a talkpage consensus first [97]. Lastly, he has a real annoying habit of canvassing user he thinks share his POV [98] [99] [100] (the last one minutes after his latest revert on Greeks). To summarize, based on past and current behavior, it is my distinct impression that this user is not here to build a neutral encyclopedia, rather he is here to push a particular POV, as his username implies, right great wrongs and fight great battles. Given the persistence and severity of the disruption he causes, I am firmly convinced that nothing short of an indef topic ban from ARBMAC topics, broadly construed, will put a halt to it. Ι am disappointed, if not altogether surprised that Ottomanist's first action upon being notified of this report is yet more canvassing [101] to users he considers "friendly". That, and combative accusations about my "sordid" past, consisting of a single diff he dug up from 2007.
Despite Ottomanist's protestations that he is being civil, the truth is quite the opposite [102] [103] [104] [105]. In Albania, it was the other user, Antidiskriminator, that requested a Third Opinion, not Ottomanist. In Talk:Greeks he is misusing and misinterpreting sources (as I explain in discussion) [106], either deliberately or out of incompetence. Either way, not good. In Mount Tomorr, after an IP editor makes the following disruptive change [107], which contradicts the sources used, I revert back within a few minutes [108] to the article's original version, in accordance with the sources. Ottomanist, obviously following my contribs, blind-reverts back just to spite me, having the gall to tell me in the edit summary that the IP editor's version was "stable" and lecturing me to seek a "consensus" [109]. I don't think I can overstate how disruptive this is. He is lying in the edit-summary, falsifying sourced content, blind-reverting, wikistalking, you name it. It's quite apparent his only intent was to annoy me. In Republic of Kosovo he reverts to a previous version that involves massive changes [110], and then tries to mislead both in the edit summaries and the talkpage. While the two versions are radically different (Ottomanist's version contains two long sentences about Islam, which the previous version did not include), he keeps blandly repeating in the talkpage that all he did was "de-clutter" and made it "simpler" etc [111] [112] [113]. When WhiteWriter protests, he taunts him that he has been "barred 15 times" [114] and tells him to "calm down", then insults him some more. He apparently enjoys taunting WhiteWriter about his block log, something which he does in this very thread [115], which by the way is a false statement, WhiteWriter hasn't been blocked anywhere near 15 times (i'm counting only 7-8, 4 of which resulted in an unblock, and none in the last 2 years or so). It seems like Ottomanist's idea of defending himself includes taunting others, lying, and slinging mud at those that oppose him (what is the purpose of bringing up my and WhiteWriter's block log?) Ottomanist's claims that he is here to debunk nationalist myths are malarkey. As his contribs show, he is only interested in "debunking" Serbian and Greek "nationalist myths" (i.e. antagonizing Greek and Serbian editors), while having no interest in debunking Albanian "nationalist myths". I don't think this fools anyone: This fellow clearly has an axe to grind with certain countries. Even with a topic ban looming over his head, he hasn't changed his behavior one bit, rather he seems to have gone even more on the offensive. I have been editing the Balkans for a long time, almost 5 years to the day, and I have seen many users come and go. I can safely say that Ottomanist is in the top 5% in terms of the disruption he causes in these articles, and that he is perhaps a textbook example of the kind of disruptive user this topic area neither wants nor needs.
Discussion concerning OttomanistStatement by OttomanistRegarding the actual criticism: I requested arbitration for the Albania page before, right here, following procedures. I also tried to contact the user in a friendly manner my self to try and resolve the issues. As for the Serbia page, we had a good discussion which didn't go Athenean's way. I am not on here to perpetuate nationalist myths, and if this means debunking nationalist claims, then so be it. Moreover: User: Athenean needs to consider his own past when bringing up others' : see here for only a taste of the many instances of him being banned: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBMAC#Final_decision for disrupting Albanian and Balkan-related articles.
He has also very publicly made calls for Greek users to come together and 'defend (Greek) heritage' here Athenean is a specialist in reporting people that contribute using proper sources, and he'll make sure to revert them because of wp:idontlikeit. This encyclopaedia must be kept up-to-date with scholarly pursuits: it is not a place to give nationalists a place to present their credentials. Ottomanist ( talk) 21:02, 4 July 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Ottomanist
No doubt disruptive but not beyond help. He has introduced sources onto the articles and these can sit harmlessly as external links or even in the main space but the problems we have encountered have been the edited statements for which the sources have been provided, often they simply do not support each other. I believe the solution is more tactful editing: for example, when denying that modern Greeks are descended from ancient Greeks, it is blatantly controversial. Instead, the source could have been used with a supporting statement such as how over the years people have assimilated and others have gone the other way, or something to that effect. He believes in discussion but could earn far more respect if he were to state his proposals first rather than attack the article with his first move and then create conflict. Evlekis (Евлекис) ( argue) 22:16, 4 July 2012 (UTC) To User:The Blade of the Northern Lights, your first suggestion is best. No need to be hard so a three-month break from the ARBMAC-infected articles would probably be best. The user can be polite when he wants, he just needs time to "de-radicalise". Evlekis (Евлекис) ( argue) 21:41, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
Well, i would agree with this. As ARBMAC tell us, one "man on mission" can create a lot of problems. I noticed very one-sided edits, and i also remember Interestedinfairness, his edit warrings, POVs and his block log. Clear start? Not, if you ask me... -- WhiteWriter speaks 13:14, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
@WhiteWriter Exposing your bias very clearly - what does another account over three years ago have to do with it, I already declared I'm back after three-years..?
- Ottomanist ( talk) 21:46, 5 July 2012 (UTC) Second statement by OttomanistRegarding the actual criticism: I requested arbitration for the Albania page before, right here, following procedures (dated 1st July, unlike the claim above, whilst the other user asked for one [ few days later]. I also tried to contact the user in a friendly manner my self to try and resolve the issues. As for the Serbia page, we had a good discussion which didn't go Athenean's way, hence all the accusations of behaving uncivilly, etc. As for the Serbia page: there was a good discussion which didn't go a certain users' way. Regarding the source of Stanford J. Shaw, I asked the user to show me one historian who hasn't been criticised, contrary to the claim that I didn't answer the issue about sources. Regarding his other claims about this page, I think it's very clear that after a discussion here, with other users that the idea that it was a "tendentious edit" is rather unfounded. The issue of the Greeks page: This is a content dispute, but all my responses have been civil, as the talk page attests to. Claims that I got "more and more agitated" in the discussion is simply not true. Editors are free to check the whole discussion right here. Most of what we have here is ad hominem attacks, rather than attention being paid to the content. I think the administrator's suggestion below is too harsh, and further to a discussion here , I sincerely feel that they would reconsider their initial judgement in light of all the evidences presented by me above. - Ottomanist ( talk) 02:42, 6 July 2012 (UTC) @Cailil: Kindly have a look at my arguments above, just because one user opens a case against me doesn't mean he's acting either in good faith or that he's right. Furthermore, where does it say that one cannot open a case against someone else just because one has been reported himself. Again, you seem to be acting on a whim - Ottomanist ( talk) 01:55, 11 July 2012 (UTC) @ Timotheus Canens: Have you even seen my response and clicked on the links? What's the point of an appeals process if an accusation is enough to get you kicked out. Clearly there is a conflict of interest between me and the reporting user. - Ottomanist ( talk) 02:18, 11 July 2012 (UTC) Result concerning Ottomanist
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![[83]](/info/en/?search=File:Sanjak_of_Albania_Map_1431.svg){kind=link}
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| Frivolous request. Filer blocked for one week. T. Canens ( talk) 05:12, 11 July 2012 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Athenean
Request about AtheneanAthenean is a user who was previously on a 4-month editing restriction of 1RR. He has been blocked several times and in the past has also been under another 3-month 1RR in Balkans-related topics He is still very aggressive and often makes personal attacks which verge on the distressing such as this personal attack against Bolerodancer ( talk · contribs) here.
such as here and again here and again, continued a few weeks later again. These few instances are enough to make users feel like they cannot contribute without having their work removed by this user on anything to do with either Greece, Albania or indeed the Balkans. As the long history of bans that this user has racked up in the past few years attests to, he is very much obsessed with a battleground behavior. To me a ban from Balkan-related articles seems like the only way to get this user to engage strictly in talk page discussion rather than edit warring and removing sourced material in a cavalier fashion.
here - Ottomanist ( talk) 23:39, 10 July 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Athenean@cailil: :The fact that the other user brought similar arguments agains me (dating from over 3-years ago??) doesn't count. I think another administrator should have a look at this, you seem very emotional and you haven't checked the thread properly. - Ottomanist ( talk) 01:51, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
Result concerning Athenean
Seriously - you're under discussion a few threads above and you make a frivolous complaint (using diffs from 2007) against the user who brought the original case here? Please see the big red box above: "editors who file clearly groundless, frivolous, vexatious, or bad-faith requests may be similarly sanctioned, even on a first offense.".
WP:Boomerang applies to complaints filled by
unclean hands.
This ought to be closed. Diffs from 2007? I suggest that Ottomanist be blocked one week for making a bad-faith request, and be topic banned from the Balkans as explained in the request above. EdJohnston ( talk) 03:30, 11 July 2012 (UTC) |
| No action taken. Editors generally reminded that it's not necessary or desirable to make a mountain out of a molehill. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 02:00, 12 July 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Shrike
What we have here is a clear cut case of someone wanting to have their cake and eat it the same time. In the first diff, Shrike makes a massive revert of sourced material, by claiming "All the recent edits turned article to POV nightmare and piece of propaganda." This is a blatant misrepresentation of reality as Nishdani clearly used sources per WP:RS. The sources included were:
Three of these sources are from university presses and the final is a notable scholar. Furthermore, Shrike demanded [122] that Nishdani go through source and explain why it conforms with WP:RS policy. Shrike seems to have a relapse of their principle on Governance of the Gaza Strip article. In this edit, Shrike adds a source to claim that the Gaza Strip is run by a dictatorship. When a reasonable objection is brought up to the source Shrike provided, (as it is just a blanket mention of Hamas in Gaza being a dictatorship without any supporting evidence in a highly partisan essay) s/he responds by saying that they don't have to explain there source, and such challenges should be brought up to the WP:RS/N [123]. When a relevant objection is brought up to blatant hypocrisy, Shrike dismisses it by responding, "The rest of you comment have nothing to do with improving this article please so such comment is not appropriate in this talk page." [124] What is also evident in all of this is Shrike's attempt to WP:HOUND Nishidani. Anyone who looks at Nishidani's edit history can see that he is a well-read/researched editor who obviously spends a lot of time going through sources and making major improvements and additions to articles. On multiple occasions, Shrike has followed Nishidani to articles that 1) s/he have never edited in the past and 2) have extremely low page views. This was the case with his revert on the Yanun article. It is also evident on the Azzam Pasha quotation article. A editor shouldn't be allowed to revert large swaths of sourced material at their whim, and claim WP:BRD (which is rather more of an essay than an actual policy). Editors also shouldn't be allowed to make up rules to push a certain POV, and then break their own made up rules when it suits the same POV. Furthermore, Shrike's persistant hounding of Nishidani is evidence of his/her lack of desire to be a productive, well-balanced, editor on the ARBPIA topic area.
Discussion concerning ShrikeStatement by ShrikeThe are two points that I want to made
Moreover this already discussed on the relevant page but lets see the sources that Nishidani presented
I don't say that all sources are bad but because he mixed bad and good it was very hard to separate between them and thus the reason I have reverted his edit. Now about the Gaza article I never claimed that anyone except me should take the source to the RSN,I suggested that if the source is problematic it could be taken that's all anyhow I have provided justification why this source should be used. [126] if it wasn't enough I would take it to WP:RSN.-- Shrike ( talk) 05:47, 6 July 2012 (UTC) The usage of bad source is disastrous to the area also calling good faith edits as vandalism [127] only add fuel to very hot situation and its violation of WP:NPA thus I ask to warn Nishidani about WP:NPA and usage of bad sources and warn Asad about filing frivolous AE requests.-- Shrike ( talk) 11:44, 6 July 2012 (UTC) @asad I have no intention to respond to your personal attack and violation of WP:NPA [128]-- Shrike ( talk) 14:33, 6 July 2012 (UTC) Response to Nishidani false accusations. First of all WP:ARBPIA area is not so large I follow recent edit though wikiproject watchlist and I have many articles in my watchlist (for example all the settlements articles).Each of the cases that Nishidani brought I have posted in the talk to clarify my position and it was wrong I humbly accepted this and didn’t edit war contrary to Nishidani .As it will be showed in one of the cases that he brought.
If it will be needed I will provide further explanations. There is small group of editor s in WP:ARBPIA area and we continuously interact with each other . Nishidani edits heavily in the topic area I don’t follow him around and revert every his edit but if I see that that if edit that he made is wrong and goes against the Wikipedia polices it’s my duty as Wikipedian to point it to him to build a good Encyclopedia.-- Shrike ( talk)/ WP:RX 19:33, 11 July 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning ShrikeMaybe I don't understand what 1RR means properly (but I think I do). This complaint is about someone making 1 revert. I'm puzzled by the motivation of the filing editor to file a report against someone who hasn't violated anything. This is clearly a content dispute and it should be taken to the talk page. Oh, and is anybody ever going to do something about these never-ending baseless reports? Aren't you admins tired of dealing with this nonsense yet? Or is that fun for you maybe... who knows. 99.237.236.218 ( talk) 01:42, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
Comment by Nishidani. Despite Shrike's interest in me, I decided not to make a complaint of his behaviour. I add this comment only to clarify that Asad thought the behaviour I was troubled by serious enough to make an independent judgement, and write a complaint here. If I do not comment, it would look like this was coordinated by me, which would be unfair to Asad. Everyone has a right to make a call according to his own right without prior clearance from anyone else. I documented what was going on:
I think that this is a behavioural problem. I'd not prefer a punitive sanction at this point. I would appreciate it if, those three reverts and their edit summaries are looked at. I think a fair assessment is that Shrike is not following best policy, using improper policy citations out of context, and obsessed with me. A strong warning not to persist in this erratic behaviour is, in my view, all that is needed at this point. Nishidani ( talk) 09:17, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
Okay. I made clear I'm not interested in sanctions. But the behaviour (not unique to Shrike) is problematical. He turns up at rare pages I edit: he only reverts there, and disappears. Often the context is tagteaming. He does not build the pages where I work. He just pops up to block edits, and the revert that caused Asad to intervene consisted in a massive removal of uncontroversial academic RS. Since admin comments so far think the pattern is flimsy, or the behaviour trivial. I'll cite some examples. In the context of several others who do the same thing, this exercise of 1R as a god-given right, irrespective of the merits of sources, or the need to build (not block) article construction, is deeply problematical in the I/P area and should be addressed. At least here, the purpose is only to draw the issue to your attention.
All I request specifically is that he be told to desist, to work constructively and contribute to articles he's interested in, rather than tending to just, as his contribs show, talking or removing material other editors add. Nishidani ( talk) 17:56, 11 July 2012 (UTC) Comment by AnkhMorpork
The recent additions were replete with unreliable sources that should never have been used. Overtures to improve the sourcing were ignored and Shrike made a necessary edit to ensure a semblance of NPOV and reliable sourcing remained in the article. Yes it was a large removal, yes there were loads of crap sources. Instead of then resorting to high-handed AE action, disputants should have sought dispute resolution and improved the sources. Asad states "If Nishidani is bringing in "activist" sources, what does that make Efraim Inbar" to claim supposed hypocrisy. This is an absurd comparison. Inbar is a professor in Political Studies at Bar-Ilan University, the director of its Center for Strategic Studies, was a visiting professor at Johns Hopkins University and Georgetown University, a visiting fellow of the International Institute for Strategic Studies, and has lectured at Harvard, MIT, Columbia, Oxford, and Yale. He has written over 60 articles in professional journals. To equate him with a nescient insignificant activist demonstrates shocking judgment and an inability to determine what constitutes a RS. Ankh. Morpork 11:09, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
I probably could make this statement in the section below, and maybe I should have, but I have a tendency to blather which might make that section longer than it needs to be. So far as I can see, the essence of the complaint is that Shrike has been hounding Nishidani, and the basis of this request is, apparently, one of a series of actions of such hounding. Shrike knows, or at least should know, that hounding is unacceptable as per WP:HOUND. Nishidani himself, per his comments above, doesn't think that the houding necessarily requires action of this type, although he would like the hounding to stop. So far as I can tell, though, that hounding is not in and of itself necessarily a sufficient basis for invoking the arbitration here. And I can't see the specific nature of the complaint in and of itself necessarily sufficient grounds for application of the Arb ruling either. There may well be a basis for some sort of RfC/U on the basis of the hounding, or maybe an ANI posting to that effect, but I have to think that based on the evidence the edits which promoted this request for enforcement of arbitration is probably not of a serious enough degree to merit action here. John Carter ( talk) 15:31, 11 July 2012 (UTC) Time to kiss and make upYes, unacceptable; no, not inappropriate to raise a complaint; but, despite the confrontational stance elicited by this venue, hopefully the timely warning will have now been heeded and there's nothing an apology for the time-wasting or an open/tacit agreement to be more circumspect in the future can't mend; perhaps, if certain topic areas bring out the worst in an editor, he/she might find it soothing to try their hand for a while at molluscs or something equivalent, Maculosae tegmine lyncis ( talk) 15:32, 6 July 2012 (UTC) Result concerning Shrike
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| POVbrigand ( talk · contribs) indefinitely banned from all articles and discussions related to cold fusion or fringe sciences, with an appeal contingent on the user publicly revealing their old account(s). The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 14:37, 25 June 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning POVbrigand
Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Abd-William_M._Connolley/Proposed_decision#Discretionary_sanctions
[1] Last paragraph, it reveals the WP:POINTYness of bringing the BaBar Experiment to FTN: "But in the meantime it would be good if we can stop being so hostile towards anything that is in conflict with this shaky standard model". Admission of pointyness: [2] My request was mostly tongue-in-cheek,
Previous arbitration enforcement request (no admins responded) Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive109#POVbrigand
The SPA Cold fusion advocate User:POVbrigand, (see also the user page [3] and the subpages: Special:PrefixIndex/User:POVbrigand/ for advocacy) has started to engage in very WP:POINTY disruptive behavior on the fringe theories noticeboard by bringing the BaBar_experiment to the noticeboard: Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard#BaBar_experiment. He said his ulterior motive wasn't the Cold Fusion article, but this line at the end shows to the contrary: "it would be good if we can stop being so hostile towards anything that is in conflict with this shaky standard model. ". The comment shows that this sort of disruption of the noticeboard is in the hopes of promoting a weakening of guidelines on Cold Fusion and not about the BaBar experiment, despite initial claims to the contrary. IRWolfie- ( talk) 09:46, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning POVbrigandStatement by POVbrigandI didn't want to upset people like this, maybe I should have known better, but it looked a good idea at the time. I honestly believed other editors would take it as I intended. I have promised on FTN that I will not use this tongue in cheek style again. In the past I have brought other topics at FTN in a normal sincere voice and that worked better in that I didn't hurt anyone's feelings. I did want to start a discussion about whether the claim "standard model is flawed" is currently fringe or not. And I also wanted to discuss what this "standard model is flawed" means to finge topic that are releated to the standard model. I got the discussion I wanted, SteveBaker's explanation that the claim might be called a "fringe hypothesis" is satisfying for me. So technically I feel that I did not misuse the noticeboard, but I admit I used the wrong style and I understand that other editors might feel betrayed or ridiculed. I didn't want that to happen, I apologize. I am very sure that it was not POINTY. I did want to make a point, but I did not make disruptive article edits. My activity on cold fusion is already slowly starting to wane, I am much more relaxed about the whole topic than say a year ago. I solemny swear that I will not be mischievous again.
I think that I know what the spirit of wikipedia is about. I am sincere 99% of the time and trying to improve things. If I read the comments here it seems to boil down to editors wanting me blocked or banned, because they feel that I wasted their time in the discussion. I think that is a bit far fetched. IRWolfie made two or three comments in the thread, Amble also made just a few. SteveBaker wrote most of the comments and I thank him for the discussion. What I did was not disruptive, I did not misuse the noticeboard by bringing up the discussion. The other point that is brought up as a reason to ban me is the fact that I am suspected for being a sock of Pcarbonn. The banned user SA / VanishedUser is arguing here on this arbcom case that I am a sock of Pcarbonn, previously he had argued that I was a sock of Lossisnotmore [6]. I have recently helped enforce Arbcom against his persistent ban evasion [7] All the edits I have made on cold fusion were not disruptive, the talk page edits were not disruptive. I think that all in all my work can be judged as perfectly acceptable. There is nothing in my activity of the last few months that justifies a block or ban. I do not try to sell cold fusion as mainstream, but I do have a valid but different opinion regarding NPOV than some other editors, hence my username. In the last months I think we managed pretty well to get some agreement on NPOV for the cold fusion article. I think that a few editors will be very please to see me banned, because they simply to hate my presence. They have taken this opportunity and they might get through with it, but I think it will not make WP a better place. As IRWolfie suggested below I also suggest interested admins also look at the archived case he brought against me. Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive109#POVbrigand. Also look at the repsonses by other editors supporting me. It seems to me that with this case he is trying to right the perceived wrong that I wasn't banned back then. -- POVbrigand ( talk) 00:55, 23 June 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning POVbrigandComment by involved User:SteveBakerI agree that this was clearly shown to be WP:POINTY in the end - I said as much on the fringe noticeboard. I'm concerned that POVbandit wasted everyone's time over on the fringe noticeboard with what turned out to be a self-admitted strawman. Technically, that constitutes disruptive editing - but I'm inclined to attribute this to over-zealousness rather than malice or bad faith. But since there is already an Arb decision on this that POVbandit is well aware of, perhaps he should have taken more care to make clear that this was a strawman rather than suggesting that the BaBar experiment article truly needed action due to some kind of infringement of WP:FRINGE. Mostly it was just a huge waste of time rather than being overtly damaging to the encyclopedia. SteveBaker ( talk) 13:07, 22 June 2012 (UTC) Comment by involved User:Hudn12The user in question is clearly User:Pcarbonn (Evidence from User:POVbrigand: "I have / had another account since mid 2004 that I currently do not use." which aligns with User:Pcarbonn, he claims he was never blocked which is for the Pcarbonn account, though misleading because he was topic banned as a sanction of an arbitration case, and he points out that English and German are not his first languages: indeed Pcarbonn's first language is French.) The community should wonder why arbcomm would allow this user to return to the very WP:BATTLEGROUND so that he could plainly renew the same tactics for which he was sanctioned in the past: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Cold_fusion#Pcarbonn. The behavior of this user has simply not changed at all. He was banned for one year the last time. It didn't help. You should consider banning him for much longer and stop letting him hide behind "clean start" accounts where he just picks up where he leaves off. Hudn12 ( talk) 16:45, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
Comment by previously involved User:HipocriteIt is impossible for POVbrigand to be Pcarbonn. POVbrigand's "clean start" was confirmed by Roger Davies. Pcarbonn is not eligible for a clean start, as he is subject to sanction. Hipocrite ( talk) 17:14, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
Comment by uninvolved User:Skinwalker(e/c with Hipocrite) The notion that POVBrigand=Pcarbonn is interesting but is probably not compatible with arbitrator RandyDavies' statement that there are no overlapping article edits with the previous account. Then again, Arbcom has been known to be less than forthcoming about the past behavior of "cleanstart" accounts. POVBrigand's early attitude and knowledge of the relevant policy debates suggests that he was not unfamiliar with the fringe science topic area. Skinwalker ( talk) 17:28, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
Comment by somewhat involved User:A13eanI have previously tried to give this user the benefit of the doubt, in my previous interactions with them they appeared to be a SPA that mostly followed wikipedia regulations. This episode, however, seems a clear attempt to waste everyone's time just to fight over an unrelated point. This is neither helpful nor productive. a13ean ( talk) 17:59, 22 June 2012 (UTC) Comment by User:Short Brigade Harvester BorisAlthough multiple independent data points suggest a connection between POVbrigand and Pcarbonn, it will avoid complicating things if this is decided without taking that connection into account. My evaluation closely echoes that of User:A13ean above. Short Brigade Harvester Boris ( talk) 22:17, 22 June 2012 (UTC) Comment by Roger DaviesHere's some background information on POVbrigand which may help:
That's the nitty gritty. Now it seems to me that a good question to ask is whether the creation of this present account with its unusual name is (i) to make good faith contributions to the topic or (ii) to seek attention/make some mischief, dancing about in the grey areas of policy in a contentious topic. Roger Davies talk 19:40, 22 June 2012 (UTC) Comment by involved IRWolfie-I have posted this separately to not detract from the original filling I think POVbrigand's response here is also hard to take seriously. In what appears to be a case of Wikipedia:Civil_POV_pushing it seems he is still adamant that he has done nothing wrong and was not POINTY and disruptive: I am very sure that it was not POINTY. I did want to make a point, but I did not make disruptive article edits, (emphasis mine) clearly WP:POINTY but he is unwilling or unable to recognise that this is disruptive. I also suggest interested admins look at the archived case (which it should be noted that no admins commented at) Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive109#POVbrigand. On his specific edits aimed at me: This: I have the feeling that he hates my guts appears as an attempt to discredit me. I will note that my simple request for clarification on any limits on his new single purpose account [10] were met instead with bad faith assumptions: [11] in a section named "User bugging me" he remarked that "Ever since he failed to get me kicked of the project with that Arbcom case he is bugging me with the same insinuations", and this related discussion: [12]. As far as I am aware I have interacted with this account as I would any other in a similar situation. I've just also seen this point by AGK above in an unrelated Enforcement discussion [13]: "in enforcing an arbitration decision, we rarely make copious assumptions of good faith, and I would advise against excessive leniency in respect of any editor's actions. After-the-fact admissions of misjudgement may likewise be taken into account only as a secondary factor." In this particular case we don't even have an after the fact admission for the core issue of WP:POINTY behaviour. IRWolfie- ( talk) 23:11, 22 June 2012 (UTC) Comment by involved OlorinishLike IRWolfie, I am also uncomfortable with POVBrigand's comment above that "I am very sure that it was not POINTY. I did want to make a point, but I did not make disruptive article edits." since it indicates that he does not understand the seriousness of his infraction. Although the edits were not article edits, they were still disruptive because they caused editors to spend time reading and responding to his comments when they could be doing more productive things, either for wikipedia or elsewhere. Everyone here is a volunteer, so wasting other people's time should not be acceptable. The best way to convince him of that is to ban him for some period of time. Olorinish ( talk) 23:30, 22 June 2012 (UTC) Comment by involved User:AgricolaeAs long as POVbrigand is counting coup, he can add me to the list of people who feel their time was wasted by his stunt, albeit for the last time. Agricolae ( talk) 02:26, 23 June 2012 (UTC) Result concerning POVbrigand
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| No action taken. T. Canens ( talk) 13:19, 27 June 2012 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Raeky
User seems to have a deep problem with reliable sourcing policy, including use of primaries, use of inappropriate sources, misweighting of unrepresentative sources, and citation policy. Events arose out of an existing RS/N report which was subsequently identified as a major sourcing problem by the RS/N community due to the hundreds of links in article space.
Discussion concerning RaekyStatement by Raeky
Comments by others about the request concerning RaekyAiG is not the publisher of Technical Journal and its hosting of contents is an apparent copyright violation. Technical Journal is a fringe christian apologetics journal, lacking any indication of weight in the fringe apologetics community, and lacking any indication of editorial review within its own limited fringe community. Fifelfoo ( talk) 04:04, 22 June 2012 (UTC) Moreover, in this instance, Technical Journal had two copyright violating links replaced with citations, and one claim "The Christian apologetics site Answers in Genesis, for example, makes frequent appeals to concepts from information theory in its objections to evolution and affirmations of the Genesis account of Creation; "[I]t should be clear that a rigorous application of the science of information is devastating to materialistic philosophy in the guise of evolution, and strongly supportive of Genesis creation."" that manifestly cannot be attached to Technical Journal as Technical Journal is not an organ of Answers in Genesis, removed. The source was retained as it supported a general point regarding fringe community views. Fifelfoo ( talk) 04:08, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
Comments by uninvolved Paul SiebertBrief analysis demonstrates that the source used by
raeky
t is hardly reliable, and definitely is not mainstream. Technical Journal is not in the Thompson-Reuter ISI list. A part of text added by this user is a verbatim quote from the web site he cites. That seems to comply with our
WP:NFCC rules.
Result concerning Raeky
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| VartanM ( talk · contribs) indefinitely banned from all articles and discussions covered under WP:ARBAA2, broadly construed. Yerevanci ( talk · contribs) blocked 24 hours and given formal notification. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 03:03, 28 June 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning VartanM
VartanM has been placed on indef 1RR and was previously blocked for edit warring and incivility. I find his recent comment at AFD discussion to be very incivil and insulting towards editors from Azerbaijan. In addition, I do not find this comment from another editor at the same board to be particularly civil either: [16] ARBAA2 made a specific provision for courtesy: [17]. I would like to ask for the admin attention to this issue. Grand master 06:35, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning VartanMStatement by VartanMMy point is that its summer outside, and you guys are wasting your lives on a stupid article. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. Hugs and Kisses. VartanM ( talk) 07:04, 26 June 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning VartanMResult concerning VartanM
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- This is a notification.
An administrator special enforcement action against Sceptre ( talk · contribs) has been challenged by an editor at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive241#Block review: Sceptre and AndyTheGrump. Uncle G ( talk) 12:35, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
| No action taken. EdJohnston ( talk) 21:23, 29 June 2012 (UTC) |
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Request concerning GDallimore
[20] User:Fifelfoo removes a suspected copyright violation by Answers in Genesis from Creation ministries international's magazine . The copyright violation is the large scale copying of Creation ministries magazine without copyright acknowledgement. It is being cleaned as part of this large scale cleanup: Wikipedia:RSN#Current_large_scale_clean-up_efforts of copyright violations and reliable source misuse. Since it is a suspected copyright violation it should not be linked to from wikipedia per WP:C. User:GDallimore restores the text several times [21] [22] [23], despite being told 1.considering the large scale copying of the magazine it is unlikely the text can reliably represent their views. 2. The text is a copyright violation and can not be linked to on wikipedia for legal reasons per WP:C, Diff [24] User_talk:GDallimore#Copyright_violations.
User_talk:GDallimore#Copyright_violations
Discussion concerning GDallimoreStatement by GDallimoreThis is a situation of a small number of users making large scale edits without consensus. There is no consensus that the links involved are infringing copyright. The reason there is no consensus is because there is no evidence that the links involved are infringing copyright. Someone posting something on their website and identifying it as being previously published in a magazine is, to the contary, evidence of good practice by the website. Don't get me wrong, I have seen some edits being made as part of this large scale clean up of AiG links which were good and much needed. I have not reverted edits to Young Earth Creationism, for example, where I thought the edits were constructive even when I disagreed with much of the underlying reasoning. But making edits without consensus which do NOT improve the article is not acceptable practice. GDallimore ( Talk) 15:03, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
Statement by User:Raeky
Statement by User:Dominus VobisduI'm not convinced that there is any copyright infringement going on here. Answers in Genesis and Ceation Ministries Internation split in 2006, and yes, there were legal wranglings over copyright issues. However, those were resolved in 2009. [ [28]] I find it implausible that Answers in Genesis is using CMI material without the requisite permission in violation of the settlement. Dominus Vobisdu ( talk) 01:56, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
Statement by User:FifelfooAs in the case above related to this matter, I believe an official warning under this sanction's discretionary sanctions is the most required. We cannot presume that AiG holds a licence for anything published by another organisation, we need to rely on documentation from either or both organisations that meets an adequate standard of reliability demonstrating that AiG holds such a licence; the presumption holds against due to the horrors attendant upon copyright violation. Further, publications by another body and duplicated in a horrifically inept manner on AiG's website do not represent the opinions of AiG. AiG publishes two rags, Answers and Answers research journal that specifically represent their opinion. In addition AiG publishes a variety of content on their website which isn't in breach of copyright and which appears to have originated with AiG themselves—this is appropriate content to attributing the Self-Published Sources "self" opinion. Finally, many if not all of these problems would have been solved if editors working in this FRINGE area had correctly cited material in the first place. Citing Technical Journal would have lead editors to Technical Journal's actual archive to locate the volume, date and issue information—full citations tend to expose many of the issues that raw links do not expose. For one, it would make editors consider if "Jeff Bloggs" or "Jane Doe" actually represents the opinion of AiG when writing, or if they merely represent their own opinion published by AiG (for instance, by checking AiG's speaker's list or staff list). It is reasonable that inexperienced editors make these mistakes in a complex area like FRINGE editing, it is less reasonable when they revert content they appear to be unfamiliar with over policies they're unfamiliar with. Such conduct merits counselling and improved editing skills assistance. It certainly isn't at a disciplinary stage above a warning to indicate that this is a problematic form of editing in an area where problematic editing has systematically disrupted the encyclopaedia. Fifelfoo ( talk) 02:21, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
Result concerning GDallimore
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| blocked one week-- Slp1 ( talk) 23:43, 30 June 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning GoodDay
Although HandsomeFella's edit changed several wikilinked names of individuals to non-diacritic versions (hence my complaint), I also note that HandsomeFella spoke disapprovingly of GoodDay in the recent ArbCom case (see here). There seems to be a contradiction here, and I don't claim to have a good explanation for it. I still believe that the exchange between HandsomeFella and GoodDay (on GoodDay's talk page), in conjunction with HandsomeFella's edit, raises reasonable questions as to what might have been going on, and at the very least, it is not out of order to ask for an explanation. — Rich wales 22:40, 27 June 2012 (UTC) HandsomeFella's editing of the names in question could also have been influenced by WP:HOCKEY, which in its current form says that North American hockey pages should generally not use diacritics in player names. This statement, as best I can tell, was added in June 2007 by GoodDay — apparently after some discussion which I was not able to locate just now. I suppose WP:HOCKEY's diacritics guidelines might (or might not) need to be revisited in light of the ArbCom ruling. — Rich wales 23:24, 27 June 2012 (UTC) A discussion is in progress on GoodDay's talk page regarding the interpretation of his topic ban. — Rich wales 01:19, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning GoodDayStatement by GoodDayAt my Userpage, I posted my discouragement over the lack of maintanence by WP:HOCKEY, concerning 2 articles Nashville Predators, Los Angeles Kings & diacritics. I wasn't aware that I was censored from my Userpage, concerning this topic. GoodDay ( talk) 03:07, 28 June 2012 (UTC) I still disagree with being barred from mentioning certain topics on my pages, but I will refrain from mentioning them in future. As for those editors who are calling for my indef-block? You've (plural) strenghtened my resolve to never retire from Wikipedia. No matter how sharp your (plural) daggers become, I won't quit. GoodDay ( talk) 13:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning GoodDayThis is the very definition of frivolity. D B D 22:52, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
The ban says " or participating in any discussions about the same, anywhere on the English Wikipedia." his edit in his talk page is practically begging for other people to make the changes on his behalf. He even says which articles need to be changed. -- Enric Naval ( talk) 09:30, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Statement by HandsomeFellaMy edit was a perfectly good one, and it has not been reverted. I have made hundreds of those before, and they follow WP:MOS and the WP:HOCKEY Project Notice. I wish that Richwales had informed himself better before he went on to pick on me on my talkpage, so he wouldn't have to be so surprised at finding a "contradiction" for which he has "no good explanation". Had he done that, he would have found that GoodDay has an extreme position on diacritics, in addition to a history of editing disruptively along his beliefs, something he has been criticized for by many editors, including myself. – There's the explanation, RW. Inform yourself and you will reduce your level of surprise. That said, it's not a personal thing to me, so I find no reason to abstain from correcting flaws, just because GoodDay occasionally has the same view. I'm not that childish. I request that any request for enforcement of any kind against me is dropped, and the sooner the better. HandsomeFella ( talk) 19:39, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Result concerning GoodDay
I'm going to echo EdJohnston wrt GoodDay
[29], the RFAR ruling: "GoodDay is indefinitely prohibited from making any edits concerning diacritics, or participating in any discussions about the same, anywhere on the English Wikipedia" is anything but ambiguous, and GoodDay's talk page post is in breach of that ban. That is open and shut. However of whether this
[30] is worth a 30 day block I'm less certain. I'm inclined to go with a last & final warning for GoodDay and leave it there, but with the caveat that any further behaviour in breach of the RFAR should result in immediate sanction (1 month block). I'm open to suggestions, or convincing if other sysops have any ideas.
Reviewing the recent edits as well as the arbitration case, it seems clear to me that this is a breach of both the letter and the spirit of GoodDay's topic ban. It appears to be part of a pattern of him testing out the limits of what the community will permit; similarly, he persisted in editing the Zoë Baird article while the arb case was underway, all the while crying " censorship" just as he is doing currently. So I think a block is in order here; we are past the point of warnings. A month seems much, but I would suggest a two-week block. Paul Erik (talk) (contribs) 03:17, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
As a sitting arbitrator I'm not going to comment on the merits of the enforcement case, but I will observe that whether a topic-ban includes the user's own talkpage is a constant source of disagreement. I have tried sometimes to make sure this is addressed one way or the other in decisions I draft, but it doesn't always happen; and the same issue arises in community-originated topic-bans as well (such as with the dispute concerning Sceptre this week). Both arbitration decisions and community discussions should strive for greater clarity on this issue (and the right result may vary from case to case). If we ever post a proposed decision with a topic-ban that leaves this point unclear, please point it out on the talkpage so we can fix it at the time and save the enforcement board this type of hassle. Newyorkbrad ( talk) 13:49, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
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| TheShadowCrow ( talk · contribs) is banned from all articles and discussions covered under WP:ARBAA2 for 6 months, broadly construed. TheShadowCrow is also warned that continued violations of the biographies of living persons policy will trigger sanctions under WP:BLPSE. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 03:35, 2 July 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning TheShadowCrow
Another very problematic user in AA area. He was warned about AA remedies, warned about inappropriateness of edit warning, and violations of WP:BLP rules. Despite all of that, he made a very inappropriate edit to the BLP article about Azerbaijani chess player Teimour Radjabov, with inflammatory edit summary (now revdeleted): [32] After I rolled back that edit, he edit warred to restore it: [33] TheShadowCrow was blocked for 72 hours by CT Cooper for persistent violations of the biographies of living persons policy: [34], which is the second block of TheShadowCrow within the last 4 months. Since TheShadowCrow proved to be a problematic editor in AA related area, I think the admins may need to consider placing this editor on some restriction in the arbitration covered area to prevent further disruption in the future. Grand master 19:06, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning TheShadowCrowStatement by TheShadowCrowComments by others about the request concerning TheShadowCrowTheShadowCrow is not currently subject to restrictions under these sanctions because he has not been given the required initial warning. Despite what Moreschi says here [36], he DID NOT notify TheShadowCrow. This [37] is not a notification. This request by Grandmaster should, at the most, be a request for TheShadowCrow to be given that initial warning so that TheShadowCrow becomes subject to them. However, I doubt the need for even that, given the edits cited are all BLP issues and seem to have been dealt with. Meowy 20:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
Since we had to discuss Meowy here, I think it is worth to take a look at the history of his contribs after his return from a 1 year block in February this year. Meowy stood up for almost every sanctioned user who was sharing the same content views with him, wikilayering and petty bickering sometimes in violation of his ban on participation in AA enforcement discussions that have no direct relation to him. For instance, here he was objecting to the block of two disruptive accounts which were trying to game the 500 edit restriction: [39], and Meowy's incivil comments caused the admins to consider blocking him. Meowy's interactions with the enforcing admins at their talks were also in rude violation of civility norms: [40] [41] [42] I think this user should be restricted to make only comments directly related to the content of the articles, as his participation in any discussions unrelated to the article content is not really helpful. Also, back in 2007 Meowy was placed on indef 1RR per week restriction, civility supervision, etc: [43], which was logged here: [44] Is that restriction still in force after his return from a 1 year block? The reason why I'm asking is because of the large content removals and reverts he made recently on Khojaly Massacre: [45] [46], which were eventually restored by an uninvolved editor. Grand master 09:30, 30 June 2012 (UTC) Result concerning TheShadowCrow
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| IP Blocked 2 weeks by T. Canens back on July 2. - Penwhale | dance in the air and follow his steps 19:21, 15 July 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning 99.237.115.11
Special:Contributions/99.237.115.11 is yet another Rogers Cable IP that locates near to Toronto making...let's call them sub-optimal edits in the topic area. The diffs show disruptive nationalist POV pushing.
Given that Template:Uw-sanctions says "Discretionary sanctions can be used against an editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, satisfy any standard of behavior, or follow any normal editorial process" something needs to happen to this editor and/or to the articles they are editing to make sure the IP can't continue to disrupt them and I'm not thinking of a warning. I think the topic area would be much better served if editors like this, who clearly don't belong in the topic area, were just blocked on sight under the sanctions. Sean.hoyland - talk 18:06, 1 July 2012 (UTC) @Ankh, "opportunistic behavior" ? I don't benefit in any way by this editor being blocked nor do I suffer in any way by their presence. It's not about me. It's about the project. I have no intention of collaborating with this IP. Someone can try to re-educate them but it won't be me because I don't believe it's possible given the nature of the edits. Also, please don't disrupt this AE or follow me to the Operation Sharp and Smooth to insert material like this when I'm trying very hard to make sure that article absolutely complies with policy by going through it sentence by sentence and source by source. Sean.hoyland - talk 19:30, 1 July 2012 (UTC) Also Ankh, regarding your "and his general 'collaborative behaviour' should be considered" comment. You != general. You are another editor I won't collaborate with. That's my choice. In fact you are the only editor in over 5 years of editing that I've banned from my talk page, which is rather significant given that I'm happy to tolerate all sorts of bigoted attacks and threats of violence from some of the lunatics that occasionally drop by to tell me things that are apparently important. Sean.hoyland - talk 19:53, 1 July 2012 (UTC) Okay, I see that Ankh is planning to continue to troll here and hound me by following me to the Operation Sharp and Smooth article so my work on that article is now terminated. It's not worth the trouble. I have also removed this report from my watchlist and trust the admins to deal with the IP is any way they see fit. Sean.hoyland - talk 21:29, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning 99.237.115.11Statement by 99.237.115.11Comments by others about the request concerning 99.237.115.11
This is an extraordinary request. Even without examining the nature of the edits some of which appear to be content disputes, the user is quite new to Wikipedia and yet the filer of this complaint has not seen fit to discuss these edits at all on the user's talk page. Nor has the complainant seen fit to warn him of his conduct or of the ARPBIA sanctions but has instead rushed headlong to seek Arbitration enforcement to disqualify an editor that has a different standpoint. This opportunistic behavior from an experienced editor is not appropriate and his general 'collaborative behaviour' should be considered. Ankh. Morpork 18:56, 1 July 2012 (UTC) Sean - I am glad that you are seeking to improve this article in a proper manner which sharply contrasts with your previous editing of this article where you inexplicably added the unreliable the United Jerusalem Foundation views and this dubious source to the article. I have edited this article and its talk page before your involvement and your omission of your previous undoing of my work and claim of hounding are disingenuous. Since you respond with a faux-naif "opportunistic beaviour?", I shall remind you what you previously said: "Oncenawhile and you are both editors who are quite capable of collaborating and improving articles, but for reasons that elude me, you have decided to go from, let's say, civilian (building an encyclopedia according to policy by working with other editors) to combatant (not collaborating and using AE as a weapon instead)." This seems remarkably pertinent to your own behavior at AE which has previously warranted an administrator warning. As Buddha said, "However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them?" Ankh. Morpork 20:14, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
Result concerning 99.237.115.11
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| No action taken. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 01:15, 6 July 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning PANONIAN
In contrast with a previous ArbCom request against PANONIAN (and as per the links above), I was "only" able to find WP:ICANTHEARYOU and an absolute failure to WP:AGF. This latter is a particularly prevalent pattern in PANONIAN's behavior, which is palpable from his numerous talk page entries as well:
I think that these statements of his just confirm that he's still just as keen in sparking tensions between editors of Hungarian-related (history-wise or other) articles as he was e.g. a year ago:
In the ANI entry an admin ( Future Perfect at Sunrise) has expressed a wish for an ArbCom report too, citing the same arguments as I did above (albeit in a bit fancier way). Personally I have to say that a topic ban for PANONIAN regarding any article that can be connected to Hungarians (e.g. including articles dealing with ALL of Slovakia's history, cities etc. too) is absolutely necessary in order to avoid any additional large-scale disruption to those articles. In reply to @VolunteerMarek: Yes, I'm sorry that I hasn't made that point clear (it was 3am in the morning when I've finished, so I might've overlooked it). Anyway I think that a remedy as per WP:ARBMAC is insufficient, since PANONIAN has just move to a slightly different region ("Estern Europe", broadly defined) and does the same as he did in the regions where WP:ARBMAC applies. Thus I deem an WP:ARBEE remedy to be necessary too. -- CoolKoon ( talk) 10:39, 1 July 2012 (UTC) @PANONIAN: yes, you're right. I should've said propaganda instead of counter-propaganda in the post you've hastily removed from your talk page, my bad. As for your statement there's nothing wrong with being against nationalism (in fact I strongly encourage that). The reason I've filed this request however is that you seem to view almost every single Hungarian editor you encounter as an avid supporter of "Great Hungarian nationalism/imperialism" (which apparently means that you don't WP:AGF), which renders any attempts at a discussion and reaching a compromise futile. And ironically (as much as you deny this fact) it's enough for me to cite your old and new posts on this topic (the upper half of the report contains only fresh posts of yours with the maximum age of 2 weeks tops), because they really speak for themselves. -- CoolKoon ( talk) 11:03, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning PANONIANStatement by PANONIANThis thread is just personal attack of CoolKoon against me due to the fact that I opposed his position in Talk:Bratislava. Note that in this specific case I only tried to implement Wikipedia naming conventions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(geographic_names)#General_guidelines (according to these conventions, if there are more than 3 alternative names for the city, such names should be moved to "Name" section). I had only one original edit in several city articles, I was not involved in revert warring and I opened discussion on talk page. As for my statements, I have liberal political views, I support all historical and modern independence movements, and I oppose all kinds of "greater" nationalist ideologies that aiming to impose rule of one nation over another one. Therefore, I did spoke against various forms of such nationalism in various pages (CoolKoon only picked some of my statements against Hungarian nationalism, but here you can see me (for example) speaking against Greek nationalism: [53]. So, the question is: is one allowed to oppose nationalism in Wikipedia or not?). As for user:CoolKoon, this is the user who publicly stated on my talk page that his goal in Wikipedia is propaganda: [54] - Quote: "I have to disappoint you regarding the prospect of disseminating Pan-Slavist nationalist lies too: they've been spread for too long and their crimes went silent and unnoticed for too long. Various Slavic (mostly Slovak and Serbian) propaganda materials about the history of Hungary have been circulated across the globe for too long without the remote possibility of offering at least a NPOV let alone a counteropinion. Fortunately all the cruelties have been well-documented (and many of them well-researched), so the stories will hopefully start to live a life of their own. And when that happens, no amount of counter-propaganda will be able to stop it, because they can't stand a chance against truth (not "perceived" truth which's basically lies disseminated as truth, but a well-documented and properly sourced truth). " Or to repeat his words bolded: "no amount of counter-propaganda will be able to stop it" - this is obviously the user who thinks that he is here to implement propaganda and to fight against "counter-propaganda". PANONIAN 08:47, 1 July 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning PANONIANStatement by Volunteer MarekI'm not seeing any kind of violation of any ArbCom remedy here. The topic ban is for Serbia not Slovakia or Hungary or Germany. The rest is just "ye ol' content dispute" (mostly a result of the fact that Wikipedia is too fucked up and lazy to be able to come up with a coherent naming policy so you get these kinds of disputes all over the place) + the usual diff padding (some very old, irrelevant and out of context) and poisoning the well. VolunteerMarek 06:30, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
Statement by NmateVolunteer Marek is right in that PANONIAN and CoolKoon are in dispute over content; however, CoolKoon's concern regards the way in which PANONIAN conducts himself in the content-dispute. It is important to note that Volunteer Marek also took sides in the aforementioned content-dispute [55], which is not a problem of course. However, it is hardly possible to consider Volunteer Marek as an uninvolved user after that. As for the freshness of evidence, Volunteer Marek is also right in that: some diffs are very old here. However, following arbitrator SirFozzie's advice [56], the policy does not explicitly prohibit bringing old diffs up as long as the evidence relates to current events. Withal, Volunteer Marek is also right in that: the topic ban is for Serbia not Slovakia or Hungary or Germany. Therefore, PANONIAN did not violate his topic-ban technically, even if he challenged one another user on Wikimedia Commons for his/her Serbian-related edits that were made to the English Wipedia [57]. On the other hand, it should be taken into consideration that is whether a good idea to get into a debate over ethnic naming disputes that fall under the Eastern Europe arbitration case after receiving an indefinite topic ban on all articles related to Serbia. Also, I've seen arbitration cases for less. For example, there was an Arbitration case in which User:Hangakiran received an indefinite topic-ban [58] when the submitter's grievance was that Hangakiran continues to refer to his opponents' ethnicity in a content dispute, thereby creating a battleground atmosphere [59]. I do not know how comparable referring to another users' ethnicity in a content dispute to certain statements that PANONIAN has recently made about Greater Hungarian nationalists : [60] [61]-- Nmate ( talk) 10:47, 1 July 2012 (UTC) Statement by KoertefaIt is needless to say that there are lot of nationalistically motivated disputed about articles related to East-Central Europe. Resolving these disputes and reaching a consensus is not an easy task, it requires understanding and accepting other viewpoints on the history and on the current situation of the area. There are many hidden tensions which, if not handled with care, can easily lead to heated disputes, name callings (for example, calling others nationalists) and battleground mentality. My main problem with several comments given by PANONIAN is that they rather intensify the conflicts instead of helping to find a common ground. Saying that Hungarian nationalists are (and always were) "evil" and aim at imposing "foreign rule on other nations" [62], saying that the only reason to include other names in the lead of an article is to "remind Slovaks about their former slavery" [63] and Greater Hungary nationalists (who, according to PANONIAN, want to rule "minor races" [64]) "force" these names into the lead [65], does not help to resole the disputes at all. I can hardly accept PANONIAN's defense that he only fights nationalism. I think that many nationalists would say that they were only fighting nationalism (of other nations). If PANONIAN really wanted to fight nationalism, he should have started with his own nation's extremists. Since his contributions are sometimes more disruptive than helpful, he should be reminded to be much more careful and open minded in these matters. All the best, KœrteFa {ταλκ} 11:10, 2 July 2012 (UTC) Result concerning PANONIAN
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| appeal declined |
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Statement by TheShadowCrowThe guy who said this is my first real warning was right. Before, with the incident involving Cooper, the issue was repeaded editing. And what we were editing over had NOTHING TO DO WITH AA. This time it was about expressing opinion in edit summarys. No one ever really told me I shouldn't do that, they just linked a page to rules without explaining which one I was breaking. Six months is unfairly wrong and I'd like it to be much shorter or none at all, which would make sense because three days is plenty for a first offense. The only problem I see was I voiced my opinion in the summary. Besides that, there was nothing wrong with my edit. It was actually an older edit, but after some time azeris began to put speculation (or more acctuaratly, denial) that the chess player said anything racist. They imply he was wrongly quoted but there's no proof to that anywhere. Grandmaster even told me in a previous debate that we have to go with the reference even if have have reason to believe it's wrong. So no, I don't see any problem. This was the first offense I have had on a AA page and to ban me for six months over it is completely zealous. Cenk Ugyar is a biased Turkish-American talk show host. He is neither Armenian nor Azeri and doesn't talk about AA issues on his corrupt show. So the only other reason I could be banned from AA is for violating BLP, but that seems pretty shallow seeing as how there was nothing wrong with my actual edit. Me and Grandmaster have debated over AA issue before and we did so peacfully, so I have also shown I am capable of using the talk page and not resorting to edit wars on AA subjects. I admit I was wrong to put opinion in the summary. But I feel that the three day ban I recieved for that was sufficent punishment. Banning me from AA articles doesn't solve anything. If I had vandalized several of their pages, that would be a sufficent point. But I never vandalized that actual page of Teimour Radjabov. So, just HOW can I be banned for six months from something I have never vandalized the actual page for? Someone (He has no real name anymore because he has made many different accounts, but his IP is usually 178) in the boxing articles I edit is always swearing at Admins and cussing at fellow editors who disagree with him. He has been banned dozens (yes, dozens) of times for such acts, but never for more than a day or so. If you don't believe me, ask Materialscientist. He has carried out most of this user's bans. If a real vandal can swear at Admins, start seveal edit wars and put countless slurs in the history tab and only be banned or a few days, where is the justice in me being banned for six months over one history BLP violation, but no actual artical vandalation? -- TheShadowCrow ( talk) 02:38, 5 July 2012 (UTC) I would like to point out two false things Cooper and GM said: Cooper claims I was saying I didn't do anything wrong on the Uygur page. If you read my statement you will see that I never said that. Grandmaster doesn't realize he was also a part of the editwarring that took place on Armenians in Azerbaijan. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to comment here, but I had two point out their false statments somewhere where the uninvolved editors would see. And I would like to point out once again Uygur has nothing to do with AA, so I don't see how anything I did on his page can contribute to a ban from AA. -- TheShadowCrow ( talk) 16:49, 5 July 2012 (UTC) Statement by The Blade of the Northern LightsInstead of repeating everything that CT Cooper says below, I'll ask you to read that. I will also say that even on the off-chance those articles aren't covered under ARBAA2, as I and others think they are, TheShadowCrow's edits to them are indicative of someone who doesn't need to be editing in such a contentious area; such editing requires tact, a willingness to collaborate, and an ability to follow basic policies such as those outlined below, none of which are demonstrated. That's why I imposed the topic ban, and I'd encourage other admins to uphold it. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 15:51, 5 July 2012 (UTC) Statement by CT CooperAs it stands, I oppose any lifting of the sanctions placed on TheShadowCrow. His comments above in my view demonstrate that he has failed to properly understand how he has violated policy and why he was blocked and sanctions were placed on him. It also shows that the mentality of his attitude to editing Azerbaijan-Armenia articles is that of advocacy and grinding axes, rather than to build a neutral encyclopedia with respect to policies such as WP:BLP, WP:V, WP:NOR and WP:NPOV, and hence disallowing him from editing such articles is appropriate. In his comments above he has regurgitated several arguments he earlier placed on my talk page, arguing against the sanctions and other actions taken against him. In his comments on my talk page, he has also made some troubling remarks, the worse in my view being his speculation that I was a Turk living in Germany, clearly done in an attempt to discredit the warnings and block he has received from me for violating WP:BLP policy. If such behaviour continues, I will arguing that an AA topic ban is too lenient, and that a project wide ban is justified. All interactions between me and TheShadowCrow can be found at these revisions: 1, 2. A summary of my response to his arguments is as follows:
CT Cooper · talk 12:44, 5 July 2012 (UTC) @The Shadow Crow: I have read your statement, and I quote: "So the only other reason I could be banned from AA is for violating BLP, but that seems pretty shallow seeing as how there was nothing wrong with my actual edit." If you weren't talking about the Cenk Uygur article then you should not have placed that comment straight after an attack on Cenk Uygur in the same paragraph. There is nothing in your statement which recognizes that the edits you made to the article and to the talk page were in violation of WP:BLP policy, which is what resulted in a warning. @Grandmaster: Thank you for the link. I think that should settle the issue. CT Cooper · talk 17:47, 5 July 2012 (UTC) Statement by GrandmasterThe question whether the articles like Cenk Uygur fall with the scope of AA topics was discussed here: [66] with regard to the article Van cat. My understanding of it is that Armenia-Turkey related articles fall within that scope. Also, after edit warring on AA article Armenians in Azerbaijan TheShadowCrow was warned by Moreschi not to edit war and engage in discussions at talk. This is clearly something that TheShadowCrow did not do on Teimour Radjabov despite the warning (in addition to WP:BLP violations in that article). So this is clearly not the first incident in AA topics involving this user. Grand master 14:31, 5 July 2012 (UTC) Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by TheShadowCrowResult of the appeal by TheShadowCrow
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| Topic banned indefinitely. T. Canens ( talk) 05:15, 11 July 2012 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Ottomanist
Ottomanist, formerly known as Interestedinfairness ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is a returning user that has been particularly disruptive of late. In his previous incarnation, he had racked up 3 blocks in less than two months as well as a topic ban on Kosovo for aggressive behavior and edit-warring [71]. His talkpage was a graveyard of blocks, warnings, conflict, and aggressive incivility on his part [72]. It's been pretty much the same since his return. He was recently blocked after a particularly nasty bout of disruptive behavior on Republic of Kosovo and making comments such as these [73] [74]. Since then, nothing's changed. In Albania, he has been slow-revert warring incessantly since June 23rd [75] [76] [77] [78] [79] [80] [81] [82], either removing this map [83] or adding this one [84], and shows no sign of stopping. In the talkpage,he keeps admonishing other users that they are disruptive [85] [86]. In a discussion in Talk:Serbia, after what seemed like a promising start, things take a very nasty turn after I criticize one of the sources he used [87], and all of a sudden it's all about the "so-called Greek nation" and how "some editors" have "issues" [88]. It is clear that "some editors" means me, and that this is nothing more an attempt to get under my skin. Greece and the Greek people have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand. He makes no attempt to rebut my criticism of Stanford J. Shaw, he just makes things personal. Several days later, he makes a particularly tendentious edit at Greeks [89], and proceeds to edit-war over it, getting more and more agitated with each revert [90] [91] [92]. This in spite of the fact that he has been reverted by several different users and has been told by them on the talkpage that his edits are problematic [93]. Instead of changing tack, he assumes a conspiracy against him [94], while at the same time admonishing other to assume good faith [95]. He just repeats over and over that his edits are sourced, but I actually meticulously checked the sources (and I invite everyone else to do likewise, they are available online) and they say nothing of the kind. Similarly in Serbia he makes a tendentious edit [96] and then reverts back to it while admonishing others to reach a talkpage consensus first [97]. Lastly, he has a real annoying habit of canvassing user he thinks share his POV [98] [99] [100] (the last one minutes after his latest revert on Greeks). To summarize, based on past and current behavior, it is my distinct impression that this user is not here to build a neutral encyclopedia, rather he is here to push a particular POV, as his username implies, right great wrongs and fight great battles. Given the persistence and severity of the disruption he causes, I am firmly convinced that nothing short of an indef topic ban from ARBMAC topics, broadly construed, will put a halt to it. Ι am disappointed, if not altogether surprised that Ottomanist's first action upon being notified of this report is yet more canvassing [101] to users he considers "friendly". That, and combative accusations about my "sordid" past, consisting of a single diff he dug up from 2007.
Despite Ottomanist's protestations that he is being civil, the truth is quite the opposite [102] [103] [104] [105]. In Albania, it was the other user, Antidiskriminator, that requested a Third Opinion, not Ottomanist. In Talk:Greeks he is misusing and misinterpreting sources (as I explain in discussion) [106], either deliberately or out of incompetence. Either way, not good. In Mount Tomorr, after an IP editor makes the following disruptive change [107], which contradicts the sources used, I revert back within a few minutes [108] to the article's original version, in accordance with the sources. Ottomanist, obviously following my contribs, blind-reverts back just to spite me, having the gall to tell me in the edit summary that the IP editor's version was "stable" and lecturing me to seek a "consensus" [109]. I don't think I can overstate how disruptive this is. He is lying in the edit-summary, falsifying sourced content, blind-reverting, wikistalking, you name it. It's quite apparent his only intent was to annoy me. In Republic of Kosovo he reverts to a previous version that involves massive changes [110], and then tries to mislead both in the edit summaries and the talkpage. While the two versions are radically different (Ottomanist's version contains two long sentences about Islam, which the previous version did not include), he keeps blandly repeating in the talkpage that all he did was "de-clutter" and made it "simpler" etc [111] [112] [113]. When WhiteWriter protests, he taunts him that he has been "barred 15 times" [114] and tells him to "calm down", then insults him some more. He apparently enjoys taunting WhiteWriter about his block log, something which he does in this very thread [115], which by the way is a false statement, WhiteWriter hasn't been blocked anywhere near 15 times (i'm counting only 7-8, 4 of which resulted in an unblock, and none in the last 2 years or so). It seems like Ottomanist's idea of defending himself includes taunting others, lying, and slinging mud at those that oppose him (what is the purpose of bringing up my and WhiteWriter's block log?) Ottomanist's claims that he is here to debunk nationalist myths are malarkey. As his contribs show, he is only interested in "debunking" Serbian and Greek "nationalist myths" (i.e. antagonizing Greek and Serbian editors), while having no interest in debunking Albanian "nationalist myths". I don't think this fools anyone: This fellow clearly has an axe to grind with certain countries. Even with a topic ban looming over his head, he hasn't changed his behavior one bit, rather he seems to have gone even more on the offensive. I have been editing the Balkans for a long time, almost 5 years to the day, and I have seen many users come and go. I can safely say that Ottomanist is in the top 5% in terms of the disruption he causes in these articles, and that he is perhaps a textbook example of the kind of disruptive user this topic area neither wants nor needs.
Discussion concerning OttomanistStatement by OttomanistRegarding the actual criticism: I requested arbitration for the Albania page before, right here, following procedures. I also tried to contact the user in a friendly manner my self to try and resolve the issues. As for the Serbia page, we had a good discussion which didn't go Athenean's way. I am not on here to perpetuate nationalist myths, and if this means debunking nationalist claims, then so be it. Moreover: User: Athenean needs to consider his own past when bringing up others' : see here for only a taste of the many instances of him being banned: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBMAC#Final_decision for disrupting Albanian and Balkan-related articles.
He has also very publicly made calls for Greek users to come together and 'defend (Greek) heritage' here Athenean is a specialist in reporting people that contribute using proper sources, and he'll make sure to revert them because of wp:idontlikeit. This encyclopaedia must be kept up-to-date with scholarly pursuits: it is not a place to give nationalists a place to present their credentials. Ottomanist ( talk) 21:02, 4 July 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Ottomanist
No doubt disruptive but not beyond help. He has introduced sources onto the articles and these can sit harmlessly as external links or even in the main space but the problems we have encountered have been the edited statements for which the sources have been provided, often they simply do not support each other. I believe the solution is more tactful editing: for example, when denying that modern Greeks are descended from ancient Greeks, it is blatantly controversial. Instead, the source could have been used with a supporting statement such as how over the years people have assimilated and others have gone the other way, or something to that effect. He believes in discussion but could earn far more respect if he were to state his proposals first rather than attack the article with his first move and then create conflict. Evlekis (Евлекис) ( argue) 22:16, 4 July 2012 (UTC) To User:The Blade of the Northern Lights, your first suggestion is best. No need to be hard so a three-month break from the ARBMAC-infected articles would probably be best. The user can be polite when he wants, he just needs time to "de-radicalise". Evlekis (Евлекис) ( argue) 21:41, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
Well, i would agree with this. As ARBMAC tell us, one "man on mission" can create a lot of problems. I noticed very one-sided edits, and i also remember Interestedinfairness, his edit warrings, POVs and his block log. Clear start? Not, if you ask me... -- WhiteWriter speaks 13:14, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
@WhiteWriter Exposing your bias very clearly - what does another account over three years ago have to do with it, I already declared I'm back after three-years..?
- Ottomanist ( talk) 21:46, 5 July 2012 (UTC) Second statement by OttomanistRegarding the actual criticism: I requested arbitration for the Albania page before, right here, following procedures (dated 1st July, unlike the claim above, whilst the other user asked for one [ few days later]. I also tried to contact the user in a friendly manner my self to try and resolve the issues. As for the Serbia page, we had a good discussion which didn't go Athenean's way, hence all the accusations of behaving uncivilly, etc. As for the Serbia page: there was a good discussion which didn't go a certain users' way. Regarding the source of Stanford J. Shaw, I asked the user to show me one historian who hasn't been criticised, contrary to the claim that I didn't answer the issue about sources. Regarding his other claims about this page, I think it's very clear that after a discussion here, with other users that the idea that it was a "tendentious edit" is rather unfounded. The issue of the Greeks page: This is a content dispute, but all my responses have been civil, as the talk page attests to. Claims that I got "more and more agitated" in the discussion is simply not true. Editors are free to check the whole discussion right here. Most of what we have here is ad hominem attacks, rather than attention being paid to the content. I think the administrator's suggestion below is too harsh, and further to a discussion here , I sincerely feel that they would reconsider their initial judgement in light of all the evidences presented by me above. - Ottomanist ( talk) 02:42, 6 July 2012 (UTC) @Cailil: Kindly have a look at my arguments above, just because one user opens a case against me doesn't mean he's acting either in good faith or that he's right. Furthermore, where does it say that one cannot open a case against someone else just because one has been reported himself. Again, you seem to be acting on a whim - Ottomanist ( talk) 01:55, 11 July 2012 (UTC) @ Timotheus Canens: Have you even seen my response and clicked on the links? What's the point of an appeals process if an accusation is enough to get you kicked out. Clearly there is a conflict of interest between me and the reporting user. - Ottomanist ( talk) 02:18, 11 July 2012 (UTC) Result concerning Ottomanist
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| Frivolous request. Filer blocked for one week. T. Canens ( talk) 05:12, 11 July 2012 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Athenean
Request about AtheneanAthenean is a user who was previously on a 4-month editing restriction of 1RR. He has been blocked several times and in the past has also been under another 3-month 1RR in Balkans-related topics He is still very aggressive and often makes personal attacks which verge on the distressing such as this personal attack against Bolerodancer ( talk · contribs) here.
such as here and again here and again, continued a few weeks later again. These few instances are enough to make users feel like they cannot contribute without having their work removed by this user on anything to do with either Greece, Albania or indeed the Balkans. As the long history of bans that this user has racked up in the past few years attests to, he is very much obsessed with a battleground behavior. To me a ban from Balkan-related articles seems like the only way to get this user to engage strictly in talk page discussion rather than edit warring and removing sourced material in a cavalier fashion.
here - Ottomanist ( talk) 23:39, 10 July 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Athenean@cailil: :The fact that the other user brought similar arguments agains me (dating from over 3-years ago??) doesn't count. I think another administrator should have a look at this, you seem very emotional and you haven't checked the thread properly. - Ottomanist ( talk) 01:51, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
Result concerning Athenean
Seriously - you're under discussion a few threads above and you make a frivolous complaint (using diffs from 2007) against the user who brought the original case here? Please see the big red box above: "editors who file clearly groundless, frivolous, vexatious, or bad-faith requests may be similarly sanctioned, even on a first offense.".
WP:Boomerang applies to complaints filled by
unclean hands.
This ought to be closed. Diffs from 2007? I suggest that Ottomanist be blocked one week for making a bad-faith request, and be topic banned from the Balkans as explained in the request above. EdJohnston ( talk) 03:30, 11 July 2012 (UTC) |
| No action taken. Editors generally reminded that it's not necessary or desirable to make a mountain out of a molehill. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 02:00, 12 July 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Shrike
What we have here is a clear cut case of someone wanting to have their cake and eat it the same time. In the first diff, Shrike makes a massive revert of sourced material, by claiming "All the recent edits turned article to POV nightmare and piece of propaganda." This is a blatant misrepresentation of reality as Nishdani clearly used sources per WP:RS. The sources included were:
Three of these sources are from university presses and the final is a notable scholar. Furthermore, Shrike demanded [122] that Nishdani go through source and explain why it conforms with WP:RS policy. Shrike seems to have a relapse of their principle on Governance of the Gaza Strip article. In this edit, Shrike adds a source to claim that the Gaza Strip is run by a dictatorship. When a reasonable objection is brought up to the source Shrike provided, (as it is just a blanket mention of Hamas in Gaza being a dictatorship without any supporting evidence in a highly partisan essay) s/he responds by saying that they don't have to explain there source, and such challenges should be brought up to the WP:RS/N [123]. When a relevant objection is brought up to blatant hypocrisy, Shrike dismisses it by responding, "The rest of you comment have nothing to do with improving this article please so such comment is not appropriate in this talk page." [124] What is also evident in all of this is Shrike's attempt to WP:HOUND Nishidani. Anyone who looks at Nishidani's edit history can see that he is a well-read/researched editor who obviously spends a lot of time going through sources and making major improvements and additions to articles. On multiple occasions, Shrike has followed Nishidani to articles that 1) s/he have never edited in the past and 2) have extremely low page views. This was the case with his revert on the Yanun article. It is also evident on the Azzam Pasha quotation article. A editor shouldn't be allowed to revert large swaths of sourced material at their whim, and claim WP:BRD (which is rather more of an essay than an actual policy). Editors also shouldn't be allowed to make up rules to push a certain POV, and then break their own made up rules when it suits the same POV. Furthermore, Shrike's persistant hounding of Nishidani is evidence of his/her lack of desire to be a productive, well-balanced, editor on the ARBPIA topic area.
Discussion concerning ShrikeStatement by ShrikeThe are two points that I want to made
Moreover this already discussed on the relevant page but lets see the sources that Nishidani presented
I don't say that all sources are bad but because he mixed bad and good it was very hard to separate between them and thus the reason I have reverted his edit. Now about the Gaza article I never claimed that anyone except me should take the source to the RSN,I suggested that if the source is problematic it could be taken that's all anyhow I have provided justification why this source should be used. [126] if it wasn't enough I would take it to WP:RSN.-- Shrike ( talk) 05:47, 6 July 2012 (UTC) The usage of bad source is disastrous to the area also calling good faith edits as vandalism [127] only add fuel to very hot situation and its violation of WP:NPA thus I ask to warn Nishidani about WP:NPA and usage of bad sources and warn Asad about filing frivolous AE requests.-- Shrike ( talk) 11:44, 6 July 2012 (UTC) @asad I have no intention to respond to your personal attack and violation of WP:NPA [128]-- Shrike ( talk) 14:33, 6 July 2012 (UTC) Response to Nishidani false accusations. First of all WP:ARBPIA area is not so large I follow recent edit though wikiproject watchlist and I have many articles in my watchlist (for example all the settlements articles).Each of the cases that Nishidani brought I have posted in the talk to clarify my position and it was wrong I humbly accepted this and didn’t edit war contrary to Nishidani .As it will be showed in one of the cases that he brought.
If it will be needed I will provide further explanations. There is small group of editor s in WP:ARBPIA area and we continuously interact with each other . Nishidani edits heavily in the topic area I don’t follow him around and revert every his edit but if I see that that if edit that he made is wrong and goes against the Wikipedia polices it’s my duty as Wikipedian to point it to him to build a good Encyclopedia.-- Shrike ( talk)/ WP:RX 19:33, 11 July 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning ShrikeMaybe I don't understand what 1RR means properly (but I think I do). This complaint is about someone making 1 revert. I'm puzzled by the motivation of the filing editor to file a report against someone who hasn't violated anything. This is clearly a content dispute and it should be taken to the talk page. Oh, and is anybody ever going to do something about these never-ending baseless reports? Aren't you admins tired of dealing with this nonsense yet? Or is that fun for you maybe... who knows. 99.237.236.218 ( talk) 01:42, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
Comment by Nishidani. Despite Shrike's interest in me, I decided not to make a complaint of his behaviour. I add this comment only to clarify that Asad thought the behaviour I was troubled by serious enough to make an independent judgement, and write a complaint here. If I do not comment, it would look like this was coordinated by me, which would be unfair to Asad. Everyone has a right to make a call according to his own right without prior clearance from anyone else. I documented what was going on:
I think that this is a behavioural problem. I'd not prefer a punitive sanction at this point. I would appreciate it if, those three reverts and their edit summaries are looked at. I think a fair assessment is that Shrike is not following best policy, using improper policy citations out of context, and obsessed with me. A strong warning not to persist in this erratic behaviour is, in my view, all that is needed at this point. Nishidani ( talk) 09:17, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
Okay. I made clear I'm not interested in sanctions. But the behaviour (not unique to Shrike) is problematical. He turns up at rare pages I edit: he only reverts there, and disappears. Often the context is tagteaming. He does not build the pages where I work. He just pops up to block edits, and the revert that caused Asad to intervene consisted in a massive removal of uncontroversial academic RS. Since admin comments so far think the pattern is flimsy, or the behaviour trivial. I'll cite some examples. In the context of several others who do the same thing, this exercise of 1R as a god-given right, irrespective of the merits of sources, or the need to build (not block) article construction, is deeply problematical in the I/P area and should be addressed. At least here, the purpose is only to draw the issue to your attention.
All I request specifically is that he be told to desist, to work constructively and contribute to articles he's interested in, rather than tending to just, as his contribs show, talking or removing material other editors add. Nishidani ( talk) 17:56, 11 July 2012 (UTC) Comment by AnkhMorpork
The recent additions were replete with unreliable sources that should never have been used. Overtures to improve the sourcing were ignored and Shrike made a necessary edit to ensure a semblance of NPOV and reliable sourcing remained in the article. Yes it was a large removal, yes there were loads of crap sources. Instead of then resorting to high-handed AE action, disputants should have sought dispute resolution and improved the sources. Asad states "If Nishidani is bringing in "activist" sources, what does that make Efraim Inbar" to claim supposed hypocrisy. This is an absurd comparison. Inbar is a professor in Political Studies at Bar-Ilan University, the director of its Center for Strategic Studies, was a visiting professor at Johns Hopkins University and Georgetown University, a visiting fellow of the International Institute for Strategic Studies, and has lectured at Harvard, MIT, Columbia, Oxford, and Yale. He has written over 60 articles in professional journals. To equate him with a nescient insignificant activist demonstrates shocking judgment and an inability to determine what constitutes a RS. Ankh. Morpork 11:09, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
I probably could make this statement in the section below, and maybe I should have, but I have a tendency to blather which might make that section longer than it needs to be. So far as I can see, the essence of the complaint is that Shrike has been hounding Nishidani, and the basis of this request is, apparently, one of a series of actions of such hounding. Shrike knows, or at least should know, that hounding is unacceptable as per WP:HOUND. Nishidani himself, per his comments above, doesn't think that the houding necessarily requires action of this type, although he would like the hounding to stop. So far as I can tell, though, that hounding is not in and of itself necessarily a sufficient basis for invoking the arbitration here. And I can't see the specific nature of the complaint in and of itself necessarily sufficient grounds for application of the Arb ruling either. There may well be a basis for some sort of RfC/U on the basis of the hounding, or maybe an ANI posting to that effect, but I have to think that based on the evidence the edits which promoted this request for enforcement of arbitration is probably not of a serious enough degree to merit action here. John Carter ( talk) 15:31, 11 July 2012 (UTC) Time to kiss and make upYes, unacceptable; no, not inappropriate to raise a complaint; but, despite the confrontational stance elicited by this venue, hopefully the timely warning will have now been heeded and there's nothing an apology for the time-wasting or an open/tacit agreement to be more circumspect in the future can't mend; perhaps, if certain topic areas bring out the worst in an editor, he/she might find it soothing to try their hand for a while at molluscs or something equivalent, Maculosae tegmine lyncis ( talk) 15:32, 6 July 2012 (UTC) Result concerning Shrike
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