| פארוק ( talk · contribs) indefinitely banned from all articles and discussions covered under ARBPIA, broadly construed. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 20:40, 23 August 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning פארוק
These are a collection of diffs from only the past month. I could add more, but it would be just more of the same.
This user obviously has no intention of working collaboratively. Besides their pure lack of disregard for WP:ARBPIA, WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA, their edits are almost always unsourced and plagued with all sorts of grammar errors that make it nearly impossible to copy-edit. Even when counseled ( [1], [2], [3], [4]) about the need to check grammar/sourcing, and on ways to do, the editor still disregards even the simplest requests. As recently as yesterday, the editor is still adding material without sources and poor grammar. I can't fathom anyway the topic area benefits from their presence.
Discussion concerning פארוקStatement by פארוקComments by others about the request concerning פארוק
Result concerning פארוק
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| No action taken. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 20:39, 23 August 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Crystalfile
In the last weeks, Crystalfile has amassed a collection of terrible edits. Edits that demonstrate his inability to do anything other than push a rabid pro-Israel or anti-whatever-he/she-thinks-is-anti-Israel POV in a range of articles. In the above edit, the user writes that Amira Hass, a Ha'aretz reporter working in Gaza, "falsely reported" what Palestinians relayed were eyewitness accounts. No source says that Palestinians did not say what Hass reported. A similar edit was reverted, with an explicit claim of BLP, and discussed on the talk page. The user has previously been informed of WP:BLP#Restoring deleted content when he tried to edit-war such violating edits at Ahmed el-Tayeb. Among other such terrible edits is this in which he labels a reporter (and a living person) an anti-Israel activist on the say-so of one reporter. Such defaming edits should not be acceptable in any topic area, much less one covered under discretionary sanctions. If one were to compare his edits to Khalil al-Mughrabi, or Faris Odeh, or Muhammad al-Durrah incident, with articles such as The murder of Yehuda Shoham they will quickly see a pattern of attempting to remove anything that reflects poorly on Israel and magnifying anything that reflects poorly on the Palestinians. Purely agenda-based editing without even the semblance of an attempt at neutrally covering the issues. We do not need more editors like this, we need less. The past weeks with this editor active have been much worse than most of what I remember from the last several years. I am not the only one seeing a problem here, see for example User_talk:Zad68#Wiki_voice. nableezy - 16:02, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
Blade, I think the biggest problem in the edit is that it says that a professional reporter falsely reported material that she attributed to Palestinian accounts. No source says that she made any of this up, and it approaches libel for somebody to say that she did. nableezy - 17:30, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
Crystalfile, I do not want you punished for no reason. I would like you removed from the topic area because you make terrible edit after terrible edit. That can be seen in your edits to, for example, Ben White (journalist), Ahmed el-Tayeb, Al-Azhar Mosque, Khalil al-Mughrabi (including the deletion discussion), 1948 Palestinian exodus from Lydda and Ramle, and Yasser Arafat, and probably every other article you have edited. You routinely engage in tag-teaming edit-warring, you follow people from article to article, and your talk page comments are a collection of assertions without evidence and unintelligible rambling. You are, to put it bluntly, the exact opposite of what the topic area needs. Your view of policy shifts 180 degrees depending depending on, and only on, whether the subject is Palestinian or Israeli. Your endless supply of "me too" reverts is plainly disruptive. Your repeated dragging up of settled disputes is beyond annoying. I have little patience for people whose view of policy is so malleable that they can simultaneously make two opposing arguments depending solely on which argument benefits their favored "side". That is pretty much all you have done here. That doesnt even begin to get into the obvious meat-puppetry, what with you reverting edits, word for word, from weeks and months prior to you registering this account. nableezy - 18:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
The cause of this request was the violation of WP:BLP#Restoring deleted content. Not "POV" or any other such motivation attributed to me. The user reinstated an edit removed as a BLP violation without saying a word on the talk page. That is just one of many reasons why the user should be booted, but I have little doubt that the user will provide further reasons in the future. nableezy - 18:03, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning CrystalfileStatement by CrystalfileI made a normal edit and have no idea why this is discussing it here. The previous source showed Hass was convicted for libel for wrong information - "The Jerusalem Magistrate's Court yesterday ordered Ha'aretz journalist Amira Hass to pay NIS 250,000, plus NIS 18,000 for court costs, to the Jewish community of Beit Hadassah in Hebron for publishing false accounts that vilified the residents..." "Judge Rachel Shalev-Gartel concluded in favor of the residents' claim that the report - disproven by several televised accounts of the incident - damaged the community's reputation." I added this source which says: "Reporter Amira Hass, for example, has recently been ordered by the Jerusalem Magistrate's Court to pay NIS 250,000 in damages to the Jewish community of Beit Hadassah in Hebron for her false report that Jewish residents there had abused the corpse of an Arab shot dead by the Border Police during a hot pursuit. The allegations were disproved by multiple televised accounts of the event." This is frivilous POV complaint. This was:
I see he was recently told by KillerChihuahua that "advise Nableezy to be more circumspect about what cases he brings here" and "We do not sanction people for making good faith edits and then abiding by the decision they did not improve the article." Crystalfile ( talk) 17:32, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
Nableezy made this edit undoing activism1234s and another revert which wrongly changed attribution from JPost (see below) and undid me within 24hr
Here he attribute the fact that Hasses claims disproven to Levin and an opinion piece. However the main Jerusalem Post news article says that "Judge Rachel Shalev-Gartel concluded in favor of the residents' claim that the report - disproven by several televised accounts of the incident " and this is misleading as it isnt just Levin opinion but proper news story that says this. @Ed Johnson The Jerusalem Post also says "Judge Rachel Shalev-Gartel concluded in favor of the residents’ claim that the report – disproven by several televised accounts of the incident – damaged the community’s reputation." I changed to 'disproven' and now having to defend myself for two weeks at AE over this POV complaint? This cant be right! This should have been first mentioned on the talk first (where we solved this) - not running to always punish me! Crystalfile ( talk) 17:59, 23 August 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning CrystalfileComment by Activism1234Looking at the edit on Amira Haas (which is what this request is about), it seems most likely that Crystalfile wasn't trying to claim that she incorrectly reported what Palestinians said, but rather fix a previous version of the page in which a POV made it sound as though what she reported was true, and it was just really settlers who said it was false and the judge just ruled against her as well, and The Jerusalem Post just also said her report wasn't true. I think what Crystalfile was going for was trying to clarify that although she may have reported what Palestinians said, this wasn't necessarily true eyewitness accounts (as seen from the fact there's an opposing side and a judge ruled against her as well as JPost), and were rather false (better would've been to write as a claim). I don't think he would actually try to make it sound as though she made up that Palestinians told her something - just doesn't make sense. And it should be reminded, that although journalists can interview people, a good journalist should strive to make sure that's the real account, and not take everything as true. Grammar-wise, it's incorrect and is a different meaning. But some editors who aren't that advanced in English (which we have plenty) may not realize this otherwise, and simply explaining to them how it changes what it says should suffice, in my opinion, and seeing whether they acknowledge that and revert. In addition, the user's English and speaking has improved greatly since the last AE, which you can see on some talk pages and some edits as well. And obviously, it makes sense Crystalfile didn't see the need to go on the talk page, since it's not disputed that the judge ruled against her and many others said it wasn't true, hence making it a claim. Also, as far as I can tell, the editor has not violated 1RR here, which would seemingly show he understood the concept of 1RR since the last AE, and has not repeated it here. Cheers. -- Activism 1234 16:09, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
Comment by ShrikeI don't see anything terrible in the edits all of them supported by sources.I think user:Nableezy abuse WP:BLP policy to WP:CENSOR information that he don't like. Moreover this complaint is classic WP:BATTLE behavior that he was already warned against by admins [11], [12] [13]-- Shrike ( talk)/ WP:RX 16:18, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
and first source said "for publishing false accounts that vilified the residents...". I said falsely reported. Why are you saying this is bad? Result concerning Crystalfile
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| Pristino blocked two weeks. The restrictions originally placed on Cantus will be noted in the case log as applying to Pristino. EdJohnston ( talk) 13:13, 24 August 2012 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Pristino
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Cantus 3#Remedies - User:Cantus was banned from editing certain articles (like developed country), was reminded to provide adequate edit summaries, is limited to one revert per article or other page per 30-day period, and an admin may ban him for up to a month if found using a verifiable sockpuppet. There were also 2 prior cases Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Cantus vs. Guanaco#Remedies & Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Cantus#Remedies. Some additional known ban-evading sockpuppets are Gznorneplatz, Cantus2, Wikified, Yangun and Kiw.
This is (I think) the first time that its being revealed that Pristino is Cantus, there've been no warnings related to his specific Arb Com restrictions. Creating a new sock puppet to evade bans and those ArbCom remedies is a flagrant act in itself.
Pristino is the latest name in a long series belonging to the editor Cantus, who was the subject of 3 prior arbitration cases. Every time one of the harsher bans is imposed, this person creates a new account and begins to do precisely the same activity they were banned for. In exposing this, it is my hope that his status as a sockpuppet becomes documented and well known, that he be held to the same restrictions and remedies of the previous cases, or perhaps that his disregard for those previous cases by creating new sockpuppets will result in an even more permanent remedy. Netoholic @ 14:28, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
I have notified Pristino about this. Netoholic @ 14:32, 8 August 2012 (UTC) Discussion concerning PristinoStatement by PristinoThese accusations are complete nonsense. User:Cantus was created in February 2004. How could I ever had opened that account, when I didn't even have a computer back then, much less an Internet connection. Such prolific editing would have been impossible. What I find interesting is that User:Netoholic rarely uses his account. His last edit was in May before he came back just to post this false accusation against me. Before that May edit he had a few edits in February before going back to a September 2010 edit and then jumping back to single consecutive edits in September 2008, December 2007 and December 2006. Is it not fair to think Netoholic may be evading his ArbCom ruling by using sockpuppet accounts? Netoholic has a long and troubled history on Wikipedia. Other users have complained in the past of feeling harassed and stalked by Netoholic. I can see why. Apparently this is his modus operandi. Pristino ( talk) 04:12, 18 August 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning PristinoI have edited and watched Chile-related articles that Pristino has edited since before 2010. Albeit I have had various disagreements with Pristino I have never seen any of abovementioned "sockpuppets" jump in. In the particular case of the Chilean people article (which I guess is of prime importance to Pristino) I and MrWiki/Diego Grez have several times reverted his edits without noticing any "sockpuppets" jump in support of his edits or position. Take a look at the history. So far I have seen Pristino as a serious user that despite his flaws (nationalism, "ethniticism") is absolutely a good contributor. — Chiton ( talk) 05:27, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
Result concerning Pristino
(Random observation, not meant to influence the decision.) This is the first AE thread in a very long time in which I'd never even heard of the original case. Newyorkbrad ( talk) 00:38, 24 August 2012 (UTC) |
| This complaint is archived in the expectation it can be reopened when User:Volunteer Marek returns to Wikipedia editing. EdJohnston ( talk) 21:27, 29 August 2012 (UTC) | ||||
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Volunteer Marek and MyMoloboaccountsig to prevent premature archiving by bot: Skäpperöd ( talk) 10:30, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
SummaryVolunteer Marek (VM) and Molobo have already been subject to many sanctions (sysop decisions, 3RR, EEML arbitration remedies and AE) for disruptive behavior, including blocks, 1RRs, civility paroles, a topic ban (VM) and a permaban (Molobo). Some of these sanctions resulted from them harassing me, and/or offline coordination. I edit this project since 2007, my record is clean. From April to July this year, I was taking a wikibreak. When I returned, I received a wikimail from VM, calling me a shithead and making a reference to Molobo getting annoying when encouraged. I had not interacted with VM after returning from my break. Molobo was still taking a wikibreak. On the day I received the mail, me and another editor (HerkusMonte) who was harrassed by VM and Molobo before, edited the article "Königsberg." VM then came to the article, reverted a lot (incl 3RR breach), assumed bad faith from the beginning, and insulted me on the talk page. Later, Molobo returned from his wikibreak to revert articles where I or HM had edited before to ultimatively arrive at the Königsberg article. Details and diffsVolunteer Marek (VM) has e-mailed me via wikipediamail on 28 Jul 2012 and called me a "shithead," said that he missed me, and that I'd encourage Molobo to get annoying. I am willing to forward this mail to a sysop, but I want to know first how this appropriately (i.e. legally) works. When I received this mail, I had not come across VM or Molobo for months, I haven't even edited between 5 April and 19 July at all, Molobo has not edited during the last months either. I had (?) however been a target of a subgroup of the WP:EEML, where VM and Molobo were (?) active members. On the same day I received the e-mail, I edited the article Königsberg. VM has only edited this article before to twice revert an IP and do a minor edit on 11 Dec 2011, 2 Jan 2011, and also 2 Jan 2012, so I did not interfere with him at that point. A user had added a large, unsourced piece of text to the article [28], which three other users - Herkus Monte (HM), M.K. and an IP objected to because of WP:UNDUE and the lack of sources [29] [30] [31]. My first edits were one minor c/e [32] and adding a reference to a corrected sentence [33]. Then HM made a few other edits. Thereafter, VM came to the article and already in the first 24 hours violated 3RR:
More reverts followed. My further edits to the article were:
That means that VM reverted half of my edits. I stopped editing the article. What triggered this AE request is the following talk page posting I read this morning, where VM attacks me as follows:
I have not responded to that anymore and withdrew from the article. Examples from VM's first talk page contributions directed at various editors, showing that ABF was there from the beginning, are
Volunteer Marek has also assumed bad faith, insulted and accused other people recently (Jimbo got annoyed too [60]) so it is not just me but a general problem, as his block log and these random reactions indicate [61] [62] [63] [64] [65] [66] [67] [68] [69]. I also can not accept the addition of references which do not support the sentences referenced to them: In this post I compared in detail sources VM added to four sentences, and they do not match. VM did look in the source again, as is obvious from the diff before, and still restored it after my removal, so that it is now in the protected version - making wp not only unreliable, but misleading. VM further engaged in a kind of retaliatory tagging: He announced that unsourced sentences of the newly added section could only be removed when all other sentences lacking references would be removed, too (31 Jul 2012 16:40), and started to tag as cn various sentences throughout the article which did not have an inline ref [70] [71] [72] [73] [74], thereby overlooking the fact that there are a lot of references given, just not inline but in the section for sources, and that most (all?) of these sentences have been in there and stable for years. Just before the article was protected, he started to remove sentences tagged by him, e.g. [75]. Molobo, VM's tag team partner from the EEML, who was mentioned in VM's e-mail (28 Jul) as getting annoying when "encouraged," has not edited since 7 April. Let's look at his first contributions upon returning one by one:
I do not believe that Molobo returned from his break by coincidence just to revert HM, then revert me, then go straight to the Königsberg article, given the content of VM's email and the recorded history of VM's and Molobo's cooperation within the EEML. I do not want to have to put up with all that again and again. Skäpperöd ( talk) 21:58, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
both editors have been subject to EEML
The evidence submitted by me shows that
Further, as the (largely off-wiki) evidence of the EEML case shows, this bullying of mine primarily by these persons (VM and Molobo) has been going on for a long long time, and I can not accept that my return from a break is answered by these two editors with an announced attack. I am an editor in perfectly good standing. I have created numerous articles for the benefit of the project. My block log is clean. The editors bullying me on the other hand have a long history of disruption. This goes straight against the very idea of wikipedia and heavily impacts my ability to edit. I ask the sysops here to consider scenarios to change that. One scenario would be re-instating Molobo's permaban and VM's EE-topic ban, making it permanent this time. Another scenario would be to prohibit VM and Molobo from interacting with me (and possibly others, e.g. HM; M.K asked for that too, below) in any way, i.e. prohibit them from talking to me, editing the same articles, talking about me. History of disruption by VM and MoloboMolobo ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) aka MyMoloboaccount ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) was already in 2008 identified as the alter ego of the nationalist forumtroll Shade2 [84] (IPs and behavioral evidence) [85] (behavioral evidence) [86] (confirmation by meanwhile retired sysop). He was identified as sockpuppeteer [87] [88]. He has an extensive block log [89]. He was permabanned [90]. The permaban was lifted only conditionally [91]. He was active in the EEML, especially with respect to hounding and harassing me, but not blocked as he was at that time already blocked for socking (1 year for socking with a throw-away account used to harass me [92]). He is subject to the general remedies of the EEML case though [93], his contrary statement is false. (placeholder) In response to VM's post below: This is not a content dispute, but a behavioral issue, and sysops should, in this respect, consider the WP:EEML case where Volunteer Marek aka Radeksz was subject to, especially with respect to hounding and harassing me (evidence is largely off-wiki, but part of it is accessible in the "Disruption"-FoF at Wikipedia:EEML#Radeksz), the conditions under which his remedies were eased, his block log, and previous AE requests where he was sanctioned:
Re: Misrepresentation of sourcesI provide some response for that "misrepresentation of sources"-thing only for sysops to evaluate whether I actually did so or not, and whether my insistence is justified on the instance that VM's references were not actually sourcing what they were supposed to.
Regarding misrepresentation by omission"-allegation: Ext. preview link to the book. Numerous authors discuss numerous details of libraries and printeries in Königsberg. That I did not include the whole book in an overview about the history of Königsberg is not misrepresentation. Re: Cn-tags
Re: "Outing"/username
What VM referred to below is an old discussion comment by NYB in an AN/I thread, my response to that comment still stands [104]. I encourage sysops to follow that link and actually read the whole AN/I thread. VM claimed there that using his former username was outing him, and NYB in good faith made a comment w/o investigating the issue (quote NYB: "I've accepted Volunteer Marek's statement of concerns on good faith at this time; I hope that it will not be necessary to delve more deeply into the matter."). The thread however took a very different turn when I posted my response: Actually, I had had a dispute with VM and had asked for a 3o that was provided by no other than Molobo. I protested, because I wanted an outside comment. I pointed out the on-wiki identity of VM and Molobo prior to their username changes (which happend during/after the EEML case) on my talk. Then VM ran to AN/I, called pointing to his former username "outing" and asked for an indef block of my account. If that story illustrates anything, then only that VM and Molobo have a long history of harassing me, which did not stop after the EEML case. That Shade2 and Molobo were identified as being the same person by on-wiki revealed IP-adresses and behavioral evidence is on-wiki since 2008, I just linked it here, the RL identity of the respective user is not revealed in any of these diffs [105] [106] [107]. Even more "outing" allegations"re VM's comment below, quote: " I accidentally posted some personal real life info on wiki, including info about my family and friends (names, email addresses etc). This was oversighted. However, Skapperod “captured” the info before it was oversighted and spread it around on Wikipedia. This was oversighted as well."
I request that the allegation contained in the 3rd and 4th sentence is withdrawn at once, and that Volunteer Marek is forbidden to claim that I outed him. Re: previous "unfounded" AEThe AE VM referred to, concerned with what I perceived as ABF, insults etc at the Kołobrzeg article, was Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive43#Radeksz. It is true that the sysop then judged this as a content dispute requiring no action. What the sysop did not know then was that all this was part of a larger, coordinated attack by the EEML, i.e. by VM, Molobo and others, to expel me from that article (note: it is the same article where Molobo reverted just after leaving his last wikibreak, diffs above). The evidence is largely off-wiki, some on-wiki [108], part of it is accessible in the "Disruption"-FoF at Wikipedia:EEML#Radeksz. Digging up that AE again and declare that my "standard modus operandi" does not reflect well on VM.
Discussion concerning Volunteer Marek and MyMoloboaccountStatement by Volunteer MarekThis statement by Skapperod consists of his usual tactic of "diff-padding" - of providing lots of "[diff]" which are either completely irrelevant (my argument with Jimbo over unrelated matters quite some time ago), or which simply don't support what he claims they show. I'm getting a little fed up with this behavior by Skapperod which happens in relation to both sources (sources don't support what he claims) and his perennially filed AE requests (diffs don't support what he claims. My statement was a response to a direct nasty personal attack made by Skapperod This diff, which Skapp gives above is in response to a statement by Skapperod where he said to me and remember that you first provided false sources. This was a straight up, false, personal attack, as I had NOT provided any false sources. What happened was that User:HerkusMonte was disruptively tagging every other word of a particular section of the article (one which he didn't like) with "citation needed" tags, while the remainder of the article sat there mostly unsourced and written like crap. As a result I was trying to get the sources he was asking for into the article. He kept moving and re-adding the "citation tags" which resulted in edit-conflicts and loss of a good time's worth of work, as I had to retype numerous citations again and again (anyone who's formatted citations knows what a pain in the ass that can be). As a result, I just started adding relevant diffs to end of paragraphs rather than particular sentences, standard practice for DYK articles, just to get them "down on paper". What Skapperod is lying about is that just because a ref I provided was at the end of the paragraph and didn't support every single claim in that paragraph (I was still working on this), I "provided false sources". I explained to him several times what had happened, and he responded, ergo, he read the explanation (and seemingly understood it). Yet here again he makes this nonsense accusation, which is soooo bad faithed that yes, I referred to it as "lying your ass off". What is worse, lying your ass off in a dispute in order to win it, or, driven by frustration, to point this out? I take sources, and my reputation for integrity in using those very seriously, and it was clear that Skapperod's attack was completely unwarrented, bad faithed and false (false + bad faithed = ?) This is typical battleground behavior for Skapperod. Abuse of a source by Skapperod which prompted this exchange Keep in mind that the section under dispute is "Poles in Konigsberg". Skapperod added this German language source to the article, although in a completely different section. I went and retrieved the source and then spend some considerable time translating it from German. As it turns out the source itself is very reliable and high quality. Unfortunetly Skapperod's edits based on the source [109] do not reflect what the source says or what it is about. Specifically, Skapperod's edit says Duke Albrecht thus called in a Danzig book printer, Weinrich, who was soon joined by other book printers, to publish Lutheran literature not only in German and (New) Latin, but also in Latvian, Lithuanian, Old Prussian and Polish. Königsberg thus became a center of printing German- and other language books: In 1530, the first Polish translation of Luther's Small Catechism was published by Weinrich Note that in the citation provided Skapperod explicitly says pp. 127-155; esp. p. 127-131. Pages 127 to 131 are the ones which I specifically translated. And the info itself added by Skapp is true enough, but what it fails to mention is that Weinrich was invited to Konigsberg with the specific purpose of printing Polish books and that the first translations of I tried to point out similar problems with the mis-use of the Bock source (again, the source itself is perfectly reliable) on the talk page [110] but Skapperod has not bothered to respond. VolunteerMarek 22:34, 5 August 2012 (UTC) Extensive tag teaming by the same old group The users involved in this dispute, User:M.K, User:HerkusMonte, User:Estlandia (only active on the talk page) and Skapperod himself have long history of supporting each other in POV disputes involving Polish and German topics. In this instance the first two, as well as an anon IP, tag-team edit warred on the article while simultaneous refusing to participate in meaningful discussion on the talk page, aside from empty "IDONTLIKEIT" statements or simple "I support the other guy" claims. As this was going on, I repeatedly raised issues on talk and tried to add in references which HerkusMonte was demanding (for like every other word of the section) with his citation needed tags. As I mentioned above in several instances, Herkus would add a {{cn}} tag, I would spend a good chunk of time looking up a reference, go to the article to insert it, only to find that the text had been removed by one of the other tag teamers - how are you suppose to provide a reference, to a piece of text that has been removed? But no, I did not break 3RR on the article (unless you count adding references after someone slaps in a "cn" tag "reverting"). So Skapperod is making stuff up again. Instead, extremely frustrated (especially for having my time wasted) I asked for advice at [ 3RR talk]. The behavior of the above users, including Skapperod on the article has been extremely disruptive. In particular this practice of first adding a "citation needed" tag to a piece of text, then after another person (myself) spends considerable time finding citations, removing the text all together is very very very annoying. It is also obviously done in bad faithed - why are you even adding "citation needed" tags if your intent is to remove the text anyway? Unless you are *trying* to waste people's time? The ... "misrepresentative" diff padding by Skapperod This diff - as my comment clearly states, HerkusMonte started removing several portions of the article very shortly after they've first been added, but well after I've began the work of providing sources (my first additions of sources were at 6:51 July 31, Herkus' comment was 15:12 July 31). It was clear that I was working on providing the sources so why was he trying to make my job harder by removing stuff in the middle of this work? Additionally, as I point out, ALMOST THE WHOLE article was unsourced at this point, yet Herkus chose to pick on just this one section - so yes, this is a WP:IDONTLIKEIT kind of thing. Actually, you know what, I don't want to make this any more tl;dr then it already is. So here I am just going to relist the diffs Skapperod provides as "evidence". Please click them.
Illustrative example of Skapperod's misreprentations Skapperod says: VM also added references he found on the web. I can not accept the addition of references which do not support the sentences referenced to them: In this post I compared in detail sources VM added to four sentences, and they do not match. VM did look in the source again, as is obvious from the diff before, and still restored it after my removal, so that it is now in the protected version - making wp not only unreliable, but misleading. First, these were not "references found on the web" but rather academically published works. Skapp doesn't tell you that and instead insinuates that I ... I dunno added links to blogs or something. In his post he notes his objections, sure. But, as it has already been explained to him, there was a simple misunderstanding - the relevant diff was at the end of the paragraph rather than the end of the appropriate sentence. Now, let's look at this super-wrong-evil text that got protected into the WP:WRONGVERSION, which makes Wikipedia oh so unreliable and misleading. The relevant current text of the article states: “ In 1545 in Königsberg a Polish catechism was printed by Jan Seklucjan” The source states: “In 1545 Seklucjan published a “Simple Text of the Catechism for the Simple People” [116] The relevant current text of the article states: “ In 1551 the first translation of the New Testament in Polish language came out, issued by Stanisław Murzynowski.”" The source states: “(Seklucjan) used a very modest but talented humanist Stanisalw Murzynowski from Krolewiec as translator, and in 1551 published first the Gospel of Matthew, some months later all four Gospels, in 1552 other New Testament books, and finally in 1553 the whole New Testament in one volume”" [117] The relevant current text of the article states: “Murzynowski's collections of sermons were delivered by Eustace Trepka and in 1574 by Hieronim Malecki. The works of Mikolaj Rej were printed here by Seklucjan” The source states: "Source:”Seklucjan also published the works of Mikolaj Rej, the father of Polish literature” [118] Note the previous source also discusses Malecki and I was about to add a source for Trepka – part of the difficulty is that his name was misspelled – but the article got protected before I had a chance to do so The relevant current text of the article states: “ Marcin Stryjkowski announced in Krolewiec the publication of his Kronika Polska, Litewska, Żmudzka, i wszystkiej Rusi ("A Chronicle of Poland, Lithuania, Samogitia and all Rus")” The source states: "Source: In 1582, Stryjkowski published his chronicle at Konigsberg (Krolewiec)" [119] So please, tell me, is there any truth to Skapperod's contention that I was using 'false source' (which I "found on the web") and that these references do not support the text referred to? Is Wikipedia really going to lose all credibility because this material is included in the WP:WRONGVERSION that got protected? If not, then just keep in mind what's going on here and that this kind of ... mischaracterization, well, characterizes Skapperod's entire report.
VolunteerMarek 08:07, 6 August 2012 (UTC) This is standard MO of Skapperod for which he has been warned before This AE request bares an uncanny resemblance to this one filed a while back by Skapperod, (as well as numerous others of his). In that AE request Skapperod was trying to get me blocked for stating that Skapperod was behaving "disruptively" (he was). Here he is trying to get me sanctioned for pointing out that several users, himself included, were behaving badly on the Konigsberg article, by spamming {cn} tags (while remainder of the article was unreferenced), by removing text and making it hard to actually provide the citations they requested, and then by removing the text which was now sourced, as well as misrepresenting sources (Skapperod in particular with the Bock source, as outlined above). All the time not bothering to participate in talk page discussion. In fact, User:Sandstein's closure of that AE request is worth quoting in full: This looks like a misuse of WP:AE (by Skapperod - VM) in order to win the upper hand in a content dispute. The edits cited in the request are not objectionable; rather, they reflect routine disagreements about content. In particular, it is not disruptive to state one's opinion that "Removing a large chunk of text without discussing it first is generally seen as "disruptive"". Unless other administrators disagree, I will close this thread with a warning to Skäpperöd that AE is not a substitute for, or part of, proper dispute resolution, and that he may face sanctions if he files more unfounded enforcement requests. (my emphasis -VM) and then this comment made by former arbitrator Shell Kinney I am in complete agreement with your reading of the situation Sandstein. (consequently Skapperod would attempt to get Shell in trouble, possibly in retaliation) and then Sandstein concluded: No action. Skäpperöd is warned not to file more unfounded requests. That's all that is going on over here. Again. In fact, Skapperod has been trying to "get me" for quite awhile now. I had the hope that he turned a new leaf and was ready to participate in a constructive manner in improving the relevant articles, since he is somewhat knowledgeable about sources (how he uses them, is another matter). But I guess not. Same ol' same ol'. I have no comment on anything by MyMoloboaccount and I haven't even really looked at his edits. I did not ask him in any way what so ever to comment, edit or otherwise become involved in this article. @Devil's Advocate Actually, MyMoloboaccount's first edit since returning WAS NOT in support of any edit I have made. His first edit was to Konigsberg but it was not related to any issues I have been involved in [122]. In fact, I disagree with him in this regard - he thinks the article should be moved/merged to "Kaliningrad", I'm ok with where it is. His second or so edit was to the Battle of Dirschau article (btw, Herkus is now move warring on that page). I actually have no strong opinion as to what name the article should be under either (though I find this tendentious insistence on German names for places/events in Poland annoying and a waste of time). So actually, two of MyMoloboaccount's first couple edits are not even ones with which I agree with. Skapperod is just paranoid/trying to use imaginary non-happenings as a way of winning a content dispute. Anyway. If you're involved in Polish-German topics, you come back from a four month absence and you look at your watchlist what are you gonna see? Well, people are discussing Konigsberg a lot, so you go there to check out what happens. And seriously, don't you just see how dripping with bad faith statements like "where EEML attacked me before" by Skapperod are? Just because someone reverted him once somewhere. This is just the usual "oh noes they won't let me push my POV in peace" complainin'. And with regard to this EEML well-poisoning (which Skapperod also has been warned about in the past) let me just point out a Principles from a recent ArbCom case:
Please also see my comment at DA's talk page [124]. Bottomline is that if there's supposed to be some kind of tag-teaming by me and MMA then ... well, where is it? Response to MK's post All that M.K does is throw the at-this-point-ridiculous EEML boogeyman around (if there's an EEML around these days, which I seriously doubt, I am not part of it nor am I even aware of it) and then throw in some completely irrelevant diffs about how one time I told somebody who was harassing me on my talk page (whom I asked not to post there half a dozen times) to "fuck off". Note that none of these diffs resulted in any kind of sanction (though the harassment by the other user was discussed by admins). It's just tired old battleground mentality and poisoning the well. Again, M.K and others *were* behaving disruptively on the Konigsberg article - spamming {cn} tags, then after citations were provided, removing the relevant text altogether, and they were tag teaming to do so. To refer to that behavior as "disruptive" is perfectly valid. What exactly is this report about anyway? That MyMoloboaccount posted a short comment to the talk page (he did not make any edits to the article itself)? That I said the users were behaving disruptively? This is a content dispute which, as he has done numerous times before, Skapperod (and his friends) is trying to win via WP:AE instead of discussion on the article talk page. One more time @ Skapperod Skapperod, this is getting ridiculous. Your evidence doesn't show anything of the kind.
[125] Skäpperöd, from now on please refer to Volunteer Marek on-wiki only by his current username. This appears to be a reasonable request on his part given the history and circumstances. Please see the ANI thread for more comments. Thanks, Newyorkbrad ( talk) You've violated this injunction at least several times on this request, including for no apparent reason except intentional harassment. And it is worth reminding everyone WHY you were required to not mention my former username (and hell, the main reason why I changed my username in the first place): you were one of the two users who posted my personal information, all over Wikipedia and spread it around (the info had to be oversighted later on). You seem to be stuck in the same entrenched, tendentious, win-at-all-cost, battleground mode just as when you used that tactic to mess with my real life, two years ago. Just one diff which speaks volumes Skapperod refusing an arbitrator's request VolunteerMarek 05:47, 6 August 2012 (UTC) VolunteerMarek 22:16, 5 August 2012 (UTC) A not short enough summary by Volunteer MarekI'm sorry, it's hard to keep this short. This issue is both simple and complex. Please read the following carefully. The simple part is that this is just Skapperod’s special way of fighting a battleground action. He’s done this many many times before. The complex issue involves the associated details, the history of my interaction with Skapperod and the participation of other users. This AE report by Skapperod is a spurious attempt to gain an upper hand in a content dispute. Skapperod has been instructed in the past not to file these kinds of AE reports, specifically with regard to myself, and has been told that any such reports will result in sanctions against him [126]. The essence of Skapperod’s report, once you strip away the irrelevant diffs and ranting, the innuendo, the scare mongering and conspiracy theories is that:
Additionally
The history with Skapperod
Bottomline
Statement by MyMoloboaccountUPDATE:Only now I realized what trick Skapperod used. He flooded his request with so many links, that one crucial element is missing. What exactly should be enforced ? I am not DIGWUREN of sanctions nor was I subject to EEML sanctions. In fact Skapperod falsely claims: Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) both editors have been subject to EEML. I haven't been placed on EEML sanctions. If Skapperod disagrees then he should give a link to the post where I am placed on any sanctions regarding EEML. In fact he failed to provide any diff for such thing. This is a typical shotgun shooting for sanctions, especially as the case open against VM, block wall of links which lead often to unrelated things provided then casually another user(me) thrown in, even when I am not on any sanctions mentioned, and no link is provided to any sanction to be enforced. Now to continue
[133] In fact in 2008 I already wrote 'In the meantime still gathering research to NPOV the article, extermination of Jews whose population count I added above, discrimination of Polish minority(classified as lower then animals by German state in WW2), use of slaves to develop a city within 1000 year planned Reich, local Nazi movement, and post war revanchist role the city played in contrast to other Germanised territories that underwent degermanisation after the war are interesting subjects which need expansion. --Molobo (talk) 17:12, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
-- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 22:23, 5 August 2012 (UTC) PS:I love the title "Ex-leader of EEML". Actually we title ourselves Silver, Red Dragon. And the leader is titled the Golden Egg on Emerald Throne. -- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 22:40, 5 August 2012 (UTC) BTW: What is exactly that I am accused of? Of editing articles that aren't even subject to any discussion between Skappoerod and VM?:"[ http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Treaty_of_Bromberg&diff=prev&oldid=505787635] Molobo returned to previous article and makes another edit [134] to a talkpage? This is ridiculous, and seems just shotgun shooting of Enforcement request in hopes that somebody doesn't even follow the links that lead to nothing of substance or anything controversial. -- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 22:49, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
What Skapperod mislead here(among many other things) was both editors have been subject to EEML-I haven't been subject to ANY sanctions in EEML case. This very typical-he usually throws numerous accusations that are baseless, eventually someone doesn't double check what he writes or doesn't follow the links, so something manages to go through. Note that he avoided giving link to support his statement-because there isn't any. In any case I performed all my edits on my own, and I haven't been in contact with VM or Piotrus in any way, either by email, or by any other means. Molobo's first edit is to comment on the talk page of this article in support of Marek.- Where? I commented on other issues. As far I remember I didn't comment on the issue VM was debating at all, can you provide a diff supporting this claim? -- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 06:28, 6 August 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Volunteer Marek and MyMoloboaccountComment by The Devil's AdvocateIt is rather conspicuous that after nearly four months Molobo's first edit is to comment on the talk page of this article in support of Marek. To Molobo's query, the DIGWUREN case has since been renamed to be consistent with its function as an Eastern Europe arbitration case and that case allowed admins to issue sanctions at their own discretion against anyone editing in the topic area in violation of policy. The EEML mention appears to be referring to the admonishment to all members of the mailing list to avoid off-wiki collaboration. So there is nothing inappropriate about Skap's report in that respect.-- The Devil's Advocate ( talk) 05:33, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
Comment by HerkusMonteI don't have the time and the patience to go into detail, just a short comment 1. Marek's claim:
This is absurd, I didn't even know M.K. before and we never made any edits on the same article. To call this "Extensive tag teaming by the same old group" leaves me speechless. The whole tag team allegation is completely absurd and just shows Marek's persistent assumption of bad faith. 2. I (not Marek) tried to start a discussion about the lack of sources [137] , however Marek's answer was extremely aggressive [138] ("Tell you what Herkus..." followed by the ususal allegations of "disruptive","tendentious" and "battlegroundy" editing, hardly a constructive way to react). Honestly, I don't see a reason to discuss on such a level of bad faith. 3. Maybe I missed something, but Marek doesn't deny he called Skäpperöd a "shithead" in his email, does he? HerkusMonte ( talk) 15:13, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
Comment by PiotrusI try to avoid getting involved in AE, but seeing as Skapperod mentioned me already "Piotrus, ex-(?)-leader of the EEML", I would like to point out that dragging an old (2009) ArbCom case is not only a case of poisoning the well, but of a personal attack; I do not enjoy seeing my name dragged through ancient mud, and I'd very much prefer if Skapperod would try to move on from the old battlegrounds. What's more, Skapperod uses a single diff to imply I am still a leader of EEML; this is a slanderous claim without any basis in fact, to say the least, and I request that it is refactored, and apologized for. Further, VM cites an example of an AE where Skapperod was warned not to abuse AE to win content disputes. It is worth noting that complaining about VM seems to be a popular pastime of Skapperod's: March 2012; September 2011, and others I don't have time to find. He has also been warned about outing VM ( [139]). Back in 2011, when the last of EEML remedies were amended and discarded by the Committee, he was very active in campaigning against them; see my comment here, where I list close to a ten of examples of Skapperod either requesting sanctions against VM and other EEML members, or commenting in support. And almost always, his requests have been denied. I don't want to get too involved here; I'd suggest that both VM and Skapperod are asked to be more civil in his on-wiki comments, and that Skapperod's engagement with AE is scrutinized by the admins; I feel it may be a time that a restriction from filling AE requests is served here, or perhaps an interaction ban would do more good, as it seems clear to me that Skapperod still feels the need to drag out old incidents and relive old battlegrounds. As most of us have no wish to join him in those reenactions, some remedy is clearly needed. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 19:05, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
A further comment on civility. I also want to point, as an academic (and VM is one, too), the accusation of providing false sources is much, much more uncivil to us than using a cuss word. Cuss words happen, but accusations like that are a direct attack at one's ethical integrity. I am not totally surprised VM lost temper in replying to that. He shouldn't, but please note it was not him who started the chain of personal attacks here. In essence, Skapperod is complaining there that "I started the incivil fight but the other party had the gall to join it in kind!". So if we are going to talk about civility and NPA, both sides seem to be in error here, and should receive a civility/NPA warning. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 17:22, 24 August 2012 (UTC) One more thought. The real problem here is that the editors involved (primarily, VM and Skapperod) cannot talk to one another and resolve their differences. Both assume bad faith, neither is a paragon of virtue in their behavior. At the same time, they both contribute to the area (Baltics), improving content, and they actually need one another. They represent different POVs, and banning one would make the content POVed; banning both would mean we (Wikipedia) gets no content. What we need to do is a solution that forces them to be civil and AGF towards one another. Now, how to arrive at that... I suggested a group 1RR at Ed's page, to deal with reverting and tag teaming. Alternatively or additionally, we could put the affected articles at general 1RR. This should minimize the damages, but civility... is difficult. Mentorship, perhaps? I can try to influence VM, but who would try to mentor Skapperod? -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 17:29, 24 August 2012 (UTC) Comment on MK's participation: your claims would be treated more seriously if your edits for the past months (years) consisted of something else than adding adjective Lithuanian or corresponding name, removing adjectives Polish and Belorusian and corresponding names, and comments on editors you have a grudge against on article's talk or here. (Seriously: I've reviewed your 50 last contribs spanning 4 months, since April 25, and I see maybe ~5 edits that don't fall under the above pattern). If you want to talk about POV-pushing and tag teaming, consider how you look to others first. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 18:16, 24 August 2012 (UTC) Comment by Lothar von RichthofenFew things here annoy me more than unwarranted resurrection of EEML (“curly quotes” and dynamic IPs might trump that). Really what I see here is the standard back-and-forth of two "national interest groups" which is typical of basically anywhere in the topic realm of Eastern Europe. The phantom mailing list stopped being spooky a long time ago, and invoking its name nowadays just comes off as petty mud-slinging. But neither side has clean hands here. A stern and final warning would be my prescription for this, given that both sides have a lot to contribute to the project in spite of their at-times problematic behaviour. I'm not too keen at all on an interaction ban, given that those have tended to compound problems in the past *cough*Polandball*cough*. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen ( talk) 19:45, 6 August 2012 (UTC) Comment by M.KWherever VolunteerMarek goes there will be trouble. I don't like being dragged into these types of his quarrels, least of all involving him. Initially I decided not to comment here, however after noticing user: Volunteer Marek (aka user:Radeksz) insinuations regarding my character I can’t be mute. VolunteerMarek’s claim of tag teaming is fiction It seems that I am only editor who edited Königsberg article back in 2008, but still VolunteerMarek is filling various pages emphasizing that I am in some sort of tag team ending with various editors. [140] Herkus, M.K, Skapperod and now you {Estlandia}? We've got a full house here. Have you guys EVER broken ranks and NOT supported each other mindlessly in these discussions? Then Estlandia is actually Miacek, one of the former members of tag team. Only user: Miacek now renamed user account to user: Estlandia. This clear illustration how desperate this guy to mud other editors and fuel another battleground. VolunteerMarek’s actions are below any reasonable standard Just look into his block log and various reactions which this person had. I just scrolled down of the recent VolunteerMarek’s “contributions” and Königsberg article’s talk page is not exception . Behavior like You're lying your ass off, Oh and btw, my query on RSN in regard to your knee-jerk mindless support of your fellow POV pusher is became a standard to this user:
On the Königsberg article’s talk page past few days VolunteerMarek brought my name at least 9 times if I counted all, in negative context included, like in “disruption”, “tag teaming” etc. Then I brought this name ZERO times. And this is not the isolated article I am afraid. Mostly due to this type of harassment I limited my time on Wikipedia to minimum. Thus I requesting that VolunteerMarek would be placed on interaction ban towards me as I am disgust to see my name all over the place, spammed by this editor. Re-institution of his topic ban should be considered as well, which had only been lifted on the false expectancy that "any relapse is likely to be poorly received." [141] Good standing editors should be protected My clean block log perfectly well shows that I am following good editorial practice from all my heart. Yet, I had to limit my time on WP as good standing editors are not protected from similar harassment and mistreatment (most Lithuanian editors departed unable to withstand such level of harassment). I understand that uninvolved administrators are sick and tired from EE conflicts, but failure to act or comparing the EEML to people targetted by them only bolsters such editors like VolunteerMarek. Action should be taken at least now that “knee-jerk mindless support” “you're an abusive asshole” “*real* nationalist edit warriors” harassment would never show up again. Old WP:EEML is not gone, at least the most of it I belive that no one can honestly say VolunteerMarek, Piotrus and other members have changed their ways. The same behavior which was stressed during WP:EEML arbitration. Everyone wanted to believe the EEML was gone immediately after the revelation in September 2009. In December new mails leaked again. When does that blind-believer crowd vanish? Apparently, Abd, who had joined the EEML, admitted only last year the EEML still exists. I say it is time to end this now. M.K. ( talk) 14:36, 7 August 2012 (UTC) Response to VolunteerMarek misleading information I hoped that with my statement I could point to VolunteerMarek his pastern which is troubling me and hoped that he would knowledge his mistakes and distance himself from them. However after seeing his reply I have no even slightest hopes. As he continuously falsely accuses me of behaving disruptively on the Konigsberg article - spamming {cn} tags among others. In fact I applied no more no less then ZERO {cn} tags in that article. This is another example of desperate VolunteerMarek tactics, to make false claims towards various editors, in hope that neutral editors would not investigate those diffs and take drastic actions involving all parties at least. Not surprisingly that VolunteerMarek is already found to abuse of dispute resolution processes. I kindly suggest neutral editors to be very careful and disregard completely such insinuations. And this is only prove my previous request that I need to be protected form this editor, as his behavior would not change . M.K. ( talk) 19:37, 7 August 2012 (UTC) Comment on proposed solution Participation of neutral editors on this issue is greatly appreciated, however the main point is missed. This is not an issue about one or two topics, this is about editorial conduct of Volunteer Marek and his group. Fact is, that Volunteer Marek and his team were and are continuously harassing editors. In the past I presented a list with direct evidence of harassment by this group on different individuals, back then I counted that user:Deacon of Pndapetzim, user:Sciurinæ, user:Skäpperöd, User:Smith2006 and User:Matthead, user:Russavia were all harassed, while many Lithuanian related editors already left Wikipedia, I wouldn't be surprised that they left WIki because they can not bear such harassment level (personally I limited my editing to extreme minimum, for this reason). I may sound perhaps pessimistic, but lets look into reality - list of ban topics, loose restrictions may work on editors who made first mistakes and ready to change, however Volunteer Marek,Molobo countless times were under various restrictions; many neutral editors showed good faith by lifting them or shortening, but nothing worked as we see. Therefore we need lasting and permanent solutions including but not limited to interaction bans, topic bans, group revert, and "vote" bans etc. Otherwise they will change their focus form one topic or editors to another. Actually that was already done - I was on the Volunteer Marek hit list, not only on the Königsberg article talk page, but I suffered and attempted block shopping carried out by Volunteer Marek. Summarizing: this is not the one topic issue; editors of good standing should be protected by community from these individuals with real steps. M.K. ( talk) 17:12, 24 August 2012 (UTC) As the courtesy note I informing previously mentioned in my comment editors: user:Deacon of Pndapetzim, user:Sciurinæ, User:Smith2006 and User:Matthead, user:Russavia. M.K. ( talk) 11:34, 29 August 2012 (UTC) Comment by VecrumbaI have some knowledge of Königsberg. All VM did was expand content on the role and contribution of Poles to Königsberg as a cultural and intellectual center, content which was all perfectly valid, and which VM kept in its own section, not to glorify Poles but simply to better manage working on expanding content. Rather than other editors expanding the contributions of other ethnic or religious groups, said other editors set upon VM mercilessly, culminating in the crap here.Lastly, I am FUCKING TIRED of hearing about EEML. VєсrumЬа ► TALK 16:50, 9 August 2012 (UTC) Comment by EstlandiaThe mere length of the measures already implemented with regard to Volunteer Marek (listed by Skäpperöd under History of disruption by VM and Molobo) reveals, that a more permanent solution is needed. In the light of this, the lifting of Volunteer Marek's topic ban in 2010 has not justified itself. I suggest considering an indefinite topic ban from Eastern European articles for this user, as he is constantly disruptive and edit warring (just on 25 July he broke 3RR, as explained here, followed by a similar violation on 31 July, as explained by Skäpperöd above). Add to this his constant incivility [142], [143], [144], [145] and the harassment of users with a clean blocklog and in good standing like Skäpperöd to get the full picture. Where battleground is, there's Volunteer Marek. Where Volunteer Marek is, there's incivility. Users like that we can do without. Estlandia (Miacek) (dialogue) 14:06, 11 August 2012 (UTC) Comment by Shrike(uninvolved)If he really abused Wikipedia email system then to avoid further disruption his email should be blocked.-- Shrike ( talk)/ WP:RX 14:11, 11 August 2012 (UTC) Comment by My very best wishesI think you should make a rule to reject all tl;dr monsters that can not be supported by a few clear diffs in the first paragraph from the very beginning. Reject and archive them after 24 hours to minimize disruption. My very best wishes ( talk) 23:04, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
Statement by EdJohnstonWhoever is going to close this AE request has my sympathy. When I first saw this, I feared that it was a low-quality request and admins would not be able to figure out if there was a real problem. I take note of Skäpperöd's comment that he has never been sanctioned. This is correct, though he has been notified of the discretionary sanctions under WP:ARBEE back in 2009. When I searched for Skäpperöd's name in arb cases via this link I found about ten mentions of his name, nine of which were in WP:EEML. As it happens, in WP:EEML there was an apparent tag-teaming effort by some of the mailing list members to work against Skäpperöd on the Szczecin article. This got my attention. It is probably too late to get Skäpperöd to rewrite this complaint in a more convincing matter (and about ten times shorter), but we should still be able to do something. If the present AE is going to be closed in any reasonable time, I suggest it focus on how to make editorial progress on the cities near the Baltic coast where Skäpperöd has traditionally made a lot of contributions. I am not interested in investigating whether anyone was called a 'shithead' in a private email, and I suggest that Skäpperöd send mail to the Arbcom list if he wants to pursue that. I haven't seen any credible evidence of outing and suggest that the topic be dropped from this request. One idea for closing this is that Volunteer Marek and MyMoloboaccount could agree to voluntarily refrain from editing certain Baltic articles that Skäpperöd intends to work on over the next three months. For this to work, Skäpperöd would need to make a list of all the articles in present-day Poland that he is considering improving over that period. EdJohnston ( talk) 05:00, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
Discussion: EdJohnston's proposal@EdJohnston, I apologize if my request was not concise enough, but you are right regarding the background: there is an underlying pattern of harrassment which I feel is continued now by VM and Molobo. Besides the Szczecin tag teaming against me, there were similar incidents that also came to light during the EEML case, eg at Kolobrzeg (EEML evidence) (EEML evidence) (EEML#Radeksz FoF as example for "abuse of dispute resolution processes"); at Police (town) (EEML#Radeksz FoF as example for "'tag team' edit-warring"); other incidents, for privacy reasons only revealed in cryptic form (eg here and here) or left completely in the off-wiki evidence. A more recent incident, also at the Szczecin article, was when I requested a 3O in a dispute with VM [146] [147], and the 3O was thereafter provided by Molobo [148] [ e/s "third opinion provided"], which was assessed by FPaS in this response to Molobo. And now there is the shithead mail and VM and Molobo at Königsberg. I would appreciate if VM and Molobo withdrew from the Baltic coast at least for a while, and I think this can work without me compiling a list since there are only a handful of towns in this area. If there is a need for a list, please ping me (though unfortunately I have very limited time right now, as I pointed out to SB on 23 Aug already [149]). Skäpperöd ( talk) 08:56, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Let me expand on what I said above, as it directly relates to this proposal. The real problem here is that the editors involved (primarily, VM and Skapperod) cannot talk to one another and resolve their differences. Both assume bad faith, neither is a paragon of virtue in their behavior. However, despite the mutual accusations, it is not easy to say whether any has violated polices here (if it was, this AE thread wouldn't have been here for a month, and archived five times as of now...). At the same time, they both contribute valuable to the area (Baltics), improving content, and they actually need one another. They represent different POVs, and banning one would make the content POVed; banning both would mean we (Wikipedia) gets no content. What we need to do is a solution that will try to reform them, and will lessen a chance that they will be back here in few weeks or months, but at the same time does not hurt Wikipedia by removing their mostly valuable contributions. A solution that forces them to be civil and AGF towards one another; They need to move on from the past battlegrounds - and I know this is one of the most difficult things to remedy with the tools we have. Now, how to arrive at that... I suggested a group 1RR at Ed's page, to deal with reverting and tag teaming. It should be possible, by looking at the diffs here, to figure out who the sides are in recent revert wars and group them accordingly. Alternatively or additionally, we could put the affected articles at general 1RR. This should minimize the damages to content, but guaranteeing civility... is more difficult. Mentorship, perhaps? I can try to influence VM (if nobody else volunteers), but who would try to mentor Skapperod? The mentors could serve as a committee on their behavior, with a dedicated page that others could complain. The mentors would review the complains and could tell the mentees to refactor/apologize, and such. If the parties appear at AE again, the mentors could then provide their opinions on the behavior of the mentees, hopefully adding valuable input allowing more serious sanctions to be levied then, if the mentees have not reformed. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 16:08, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Result concerning Volunteer Marek and MyMoloboaccount
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| No action taken. EdJohnston ( talk) 23:43, 30 August 2012 (UTC) | ||
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Request concerning Debresser
1RR posted on talk page of article. After the violation, Frederico1234 requested that Derebesser self-revert. The user refused, claiming that because the first revert was a revert of an edit from a week ago that it does not count as a revert under the 1RR.
About a week ago, Debresser removed the line in the lead and the section in the body about the illegality of a specific Israeli settlement. A talk page discussion ensued, with no consensus being established for the change. Today, Debresser partially repeats this performance. I was going to leave it alone, however in this edit Debresser requests somebody else to continue the edit war, which another user promptly did. Given that Debresser had already violated the 1RR him/herself, the fact that he was requesting somebody else perform yet another revert caused me to bring the violation here.
Folks, Debresser just violated the 1RR again. The reverts are this and this. It is clear that the user refuses to abide by simple rules, claiming that others are edit-warring and he or she is just following policy. If need be a new section will be opened to deal with this. nableezy - 19:49, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning DebresserStatement by DebresserPlease see User_talk:Debresser#1RR_violation_at_Beitar_Illit, where I replied to the posting editor. If there was a violation over here, then it was made unwittingly, and I accept whatever steps this committee feels it must take against me. As to the posting editor, I think he is just looking for a way to make me some minor trouble, in order to bully me and other editors who disagree with his biased POVs. Debresser ( talk) 19:26, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning DebresserJust noticed that Nableezy insinuated that I somehow continued an edit war on behalf of an editor's request that I never noticed (I was directed to the page from a notice on a WikiProject, I never received any "request" to continue an "edit war")... OK? As far as I could tell, the dispute was concerning the lead, not the section I edited (I discussed the lead on the talk page but did not edit it)... A bit taken aback at that. -- Activism 1234 19:08, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
Also, if I understand this right, this was the revert in question. It'd be impossible though for the editor to self-revert, considering that Nableezy reverted it shortly after that, here. It's obvious from the talk page of the editor that the editor wasn't clear on exactly what 1RR was, and simply explaining it to that editor better should've sufficed, but to self-revert isn't possible since it was already reverted, it seems. -- Activism 1234 19:14, 21 August 2012 (UTC) Note that Debresser continues to misconstrue 1RR then, as he or she has just now reverted me on the same page here without discussion at all.— alf laylah wa laylah ( talk) 19:24, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
Comment - The message in the Israel, Palestine and Judaism Wikiprojects is called "Invitation to discussion" and says "There is a discussion on the Beitar Illit about the removal of part of a generic text which is sourced to general sources, not specific to Beitar Illit. Please weigh in. " (my bolding) It doesn't say, edit the article and leave an edit summary that says "Irrelevant - this is synthesis, appropriate for an article on Israeli settlements (already exists), NOT for POV pushing here". Just saying. One day the discretionary sanctions might start working. Sean.hoyland - talk 19:31, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
<-Activism1234, this is what happened.
Comment - As far as I can see, Debresser has still not acknowledged that he violated 1RR, as he thinks his first revert was not actually a revert (see discussion following my notification on his talk page). I would advice the administrators to explain to Debresser that his first edit was indeed a revert. -- Frederico1234 ( talk) 05:07, 23 August 2012 (UTC) KC, I now do have a serious objection. As Nableezy notes above, Debresser just violated 1RR again despite this discussion, the ongoing discussion on the article talk page, and the ongoing discussion on the user's page about 1RR.— alf laylah wa laylah ( talk) 19:52, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
To help out a bit, here's the diff of the self-revert. -- Activism 1234 23:15, 23 August 2012 (UTC) Result concerning Debresser
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| פארוק ( talk · contribs) indefinitely banned from all articles and discussions covered under ARBPIA, broadly construed. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 20:40, 23 August 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning פארוק
These are a collection of diffs from only the past month. I could add more, but it would be just more of the same.
This user obviously has no intention of working collaboratively. Besides their pure lack of disregard for WP:ARBPIA, WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA, their edits are almost always unsourced and plagued with all sorts of grammar errors that make it nearly impossible to copy-edit. Even when counseled ( [1], [2], [3], [4]) about the need to check grammar/sourcing, and on ways to do, the editor still disregards even the simplest requests. As recently as yesterday, the editor is still adding material without sources and poor grammar. I can't fathom anyway the topic area benefits from their presence.
Discussion concerning פארוקStatement by פארוקComments by others about the request concerning פארוק
Result concerning פארוק
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| No action taken. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 20:39, 23 August 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Crystalfile
In the last weeks, Crystalfile has amassed a collection of terrible edits. Edits that demonstrate his inability to do anything other than push a rabid pro-Israel or anti-whatever-he/she-thinks-is-anti-Israel POV in a range of articles. In the above edit, the user writes that Amira Hass, a Ha'aretz reporter working in Gaza, "falsely reported" what Palestinians relayed were eyewitness accounts. No source says that Palestinians did not say what Hass reported. A similar edit was reverted, with an explicit claim of BLP, and discussed on the talk page. The user has previously been informed of WP:BLP#Restoring deleted content when he tried to edit-war such violating edits at Ahmed el-Tayeb. Among other such terrible edits is this in which he labels a reporter (and a living person) an anti-Israel activist on the say-so of one reporter. Such defaming edits should not be acceptable in any topic area, much less one covered under discretionary sanctions. If one were to compare his edits to Khalil al-Mughrabi, or Faris Odeh, or Muhammad al-Durrah incident, with articles such as The murder of Yehuda Shoham they will quickly see a pattern of attempting to remove anything that reflects poorly on Israel and magnifying anything that reflects poorly on the Palestinians. Purely agenda-based editing without even the semblance of an attempt at neutrally covering the issues. We do not need more editors like this, we need less. The past weeks with this editor active have been much worse than most of what I remember from the last several years. I am not the only one seeing a problem here, see for example User_talk:Zad68#Wiki_voice. nableezy - 16:02, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
Blade, I think the biggest problem in the edit is that it says that a professional reporter falsely reported material that she attributed to Palestinian accounts. No source says that she made any of this up, and it approaches libel for somebody to say that she did. nableezy - 17:30, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
Crystalfile, I do not want you punished for no reason. I would like you removed from the topic area because you make terrible edit after terrible edit. That can be seen in your edits to, for example, Ben White (journalist), Ahmed el-Tayeb, Al-Azhar Mosque, Khalil al-Mughrabi (including the deletion discussion), 1948 Palestinian exodus from Lydda and Ramle, and Yasser Arafat, and probably every other article you have edited. You routinely engage in tag-teaming edit-warring, you follow people from article to article, and your talk page comments are a collection of assertions without evidence and unintelligible rambling. You are, to put it bluntly, the exact opposite of what the topic area needs. Your view of policy shifts 180 degrees depending depending on, and only on, whether the subject is Palestinian or Israeli. Your endless supply of "me too" reverts is plainly disruptive. Your repeated dragging up of settled disputes is beyond annoying. I have little patience for people whose view of policy is so malleable that they can simultaneously make two opposing arguments depending solely on which argument benefits their favored "side". That is pretty much all you have done here. That doesnt even begin to get into the obvious meat-puppetry, what with you reverting edits, word for word, from weeks and months prior to you registering this account. nableezy - 18:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
The cause of this request was the violation of WP:BLP#Restoring deleted content. Not "POV" or any other such motivation attributed to me. The user reinstated an edit removed as a BLP violation without saying a word on the talk page. That is just one of many reasons why the user should be booted, but I have little doubt that the user will provide further reasons in the future. nableezy - 18:03, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning CrystalfileStatement by CrystalfileI made a normal edit and have no idea why this is discussing it here. The previous source showed Hass was convicted for libel for wrong information - "The Jerusalem Magistrate's Court yesterday ordered Ha'aretz journalist Amira Hass to pay NIS 250,000, plus NIS 18,000 for court costs, to the Jewish community of Beit Hadassah in Hebron for publishing false accounts that vilified the residents..." "Judge Rachel Shalev-Gartel concluded in favor of the residents' claim that the report - disproven by several televised accounts of the incident - damaged the community's reputation." I added this source which says: "Reporter Amira Hass, for example, has recently been ordered by the Jerusalem Magistrate's Court to pay NIS 250,000 in damages to the Jewish community of Beit Hadassah in Hebron for her false report that Jewish residents there had abused the corpse of an Arab shot dead by the Border Police during a hot pursuit. The allegations were disproved by multiple televised accounts of the event." This is frivilous POV complaint. This was:
I see he was recently told by KillerChihuahua that "advise Nableezy to be more circumspect about what cases he brings here" and "We do not sanction people for making good faith edits and then abiding by the decision they did not improve the article." Crystalfile ( talk) 17:32, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
Nableezy made this edit undoing activism1234s and another revert which wrongly changed attribution from JPost (see below) and undid me within 24hr
Here he attribute the fact that Hasses claims disproven to Levin and an opinion piece. However the main Jerusalem Post news article says that "Judge Rachel Shalev-Gartel concluded in favor of the residents' claim that the report - disproven by several televised accounts of the incident " and this is misleading as it isnt just Levin opinion but proper news story that says this. @Ed Johnson The Jerusalem Post also says "Judge Rachel Shalev-Gartel concluded in favor of the residents’ claim that the report – disproven by several televised accounts of the incident – damaged the community’s reputation." I changed to 'disproven' and now having to defend myself for two weeks at AE over this POV complaint? This cant be right! This should have been first mentioned on the talk first (where we solved this) - not running to always punish me! Crystalfile ( talk) 17:59, 23 August 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning CrystalfileComment by Activism1234Looking at the edit on Amira Haas (which is what this request is about), it seems most likely that Crystalfile wasn't trying to claim that she incorrectly reported what Palestinians said, but rather fix a previous version of the page in which a POV made it sound as though what she reported was true, and it was just really settlers who said it was false and the judge just ruled against her as well, and The Jerusalem Post just also said her report wasn't true. I think what Crystalfile was going for was trying to clarify that although she may have reported what Palestinians said, this wasn't necessarily true eyewitness accounts (as seen from the fact there's an opposing side and a judge ruled against her as well as JPost), and were rather false (better would've been to write as a claim). I don't think he would actually try to make it sound as though she made up that Palestinians told her something - just doesn't make sense. And it should be reminded, that although journalists can interview people, a good journalist should strive to make sure that's the real account, and not take everything as true. Grammar-wise, it's incorrect and is a different meaning. But some editors who aren't that advanced in English (which we have plenty) may not realize this otherwise, and simply explaining to them how it changes what it says should suffice, in my opinion, and seeing whether they acknowledge that and revert. In addition, the user's English and speaking has improved greatly since the last AE, which you can see on some talk pages and some edits as well. And obviously, it makes sense Crystalfile didn't see the need to go on the talk page, since it's not disputed that the judge ruled against her and many others said it wasn't true, hence making it a claim. Also, as far as I can tell, the editor has not violated 1RR here, which would seemingly show he understood the concept of 1RR since the last AE, and has not repeated it here. Cheers. -- Activism 1234 16:09, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
Comment by ShrikeI don't see anything terrible in the edits all of them supported by sources.I think user:Nableezy abuse WP:BLP policy to WP:CENSOR information that he don't like. Moreover this complaint is classic WP:BATTLE behavior that he was already warned against by admins [11], [12] [13]-- Shrike ( talk)/ WP:RX 16:18, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
and first source said "for publishing false accounts that vilified the residents...". I said falsely reported. Why are you saying this is bad? Result concerning Crystalfile
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| Pristino blocked two weeks. The restrictions originally placed on Cantus will be noted in the case log as applying to Pristino. EdJohnston ( talk) 13:13, 24 August 2012 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Pristino
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Cantus 3#Remedies - User:Cantus was banned from editing certain articles (like developed country), was reminded to provide adequate edit summaries, is limited to one revert per article or other page per 30-day period, and an admin may ban him for up to a month if found using a verifiable sockpuppet. There were also 2 prior cases Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Cantus vs. Guanaco#Remedies & Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Cantus#Remedies. Some additional known ban-evading sockpuppets are Gznorneplatz, Cantus2, Wikified, Yangun and Kiw.
This is (I think) the first time that its being revealed that Pristino is Cantus, there've been no warnings related to his specific Arb Com restrictions. Creating a new sock puppet to evade bans and those ArbCom remedies is a flagrant act in itself.
Pristino is the latest name in a long series belonging to the editor Cantus, who was the subject of 3 prior arbitration cases. Every time one of the harsher bans is imposed, this person creates a new account and begins to do precisely the same activity they were banned for. In exposing this, it is my hope that his status as a sockpuppet becomes documented and well known, that he be held to the same restrictions and remedies of the previous cases, or perhaps that his disregard for those previous cases by creating new sockpuppets will result in an even more permanent remedy. Netoholic @ 14:28, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
I have notified Pristino about this. Netoholic @ 14:32, 8 August 2012 (UTC) Discussion concerning PristinoStatement by PristinoThese accusations are complete nonsense. User:Cantus was created in February 2004. How could I ever had opened that account, when I didn't even have a computer back then, much less an Internet connection. Such prolific editing would have been impossible. What I find interesting is that User:Netoholic rarely uses his account. His last edit was in May before he came back just to post this false accusation against me. Before that May edit he had a few edits in February before going back to a September 2010 edit and then jumping back to single consecutive edits in September 2008, December 2007 and December 2006. Is it not fair to think Netoholic may be evading his ArbCom ruling by using sockpuppet accounts? Netoholic has a long and troubled history on Wikipedia. Other users have complained in the past of feeling harassed and stalked by Netoholic. I can see why. Apparently this is his modus operandi. Pristino ( talk) 04:12, 18 August 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning PristinoI have edited and watched Chile-related articles that Pristino has edited since before 2010. Albeit I have had various disagreements with Pristino I have never seen any of abovementioned "sockpuppets" jump in. In the particular case of the Chilean people article (which I guess is of prime importance to Pristino) I and MrWiki/Diego Grez have several times reverted his edits without noticing any "sockpuppets" jump in support of his edits or position. Take a look at the history. So far I have seen Pristino as a serious user that despite his flaws (nationalism, "ethniticism") is absolutely a good contributor. — Chiton ( talk) 05:27, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
Result concerning Pristino
(Random observation, not meant to influence the decision.) This is the first AE thread in a very long time in which I'd never even heard of the original case. Newyorkbrad ( talk) 00:38, 24 August 2012 (UTC) |
| This complaint is archived in the expectation it can be reopened when User:Volunteer Marek returns to Wikipedia editing. EdJohnston ( talk) 21:27, 29 August 2012 (UTC) | ||||
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Volunteer Marek and MyMoloboaccountsig to prevent premature archiving by bot: Skäpperöd ( talk) 10:30, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
SummaryVolunteer Marek (VM) and Molobo have already been subject to many sanctions (sysop decisions, 3RR, EEML arbitration remedies and AE) for disruptive behavior, including blocks, 1RRs, civility paroles, a topic ban (VM) and a permaban (Molobo). Some of these sanctions resulted from them harassing me, and/or offline coordination. I edit this project since 2007, my record is clean. From April to July this year, I was taking a wikibreak. When I returned, I received a wikimail from VM, calling me a shithead and making a reference to Molobo getting annoying when encouraged. I had not interacted with VM after returning from my break. Molobo was still taking a wikibreak. On the day I received the mail, me and another editor (HerkusMonte) who was harrassed by VM and Molobo before, edited the article "Königsberg." VM then came to the article, reverted a lot (incl 3RR breach), assumed bad faith from the beginning, and insulted me on the talk page. Later, Molobo returned from his wikibreak to revert articles where I or HM had edited before to ultimatively arrive at the Königsberg article. Details and diffsVolunteer Marek (VM) has e-mailed me via wikipediamail on 28 Jul 2012 and called me a "shithead," said that he missed me, and that I'd encourage Molobo to get annoying. I am willing to forward this mail to a sysop, but I want to know first how this appropriately (i.e. legally) works. When I received this mail, I had not come across VM or Molobo for months, I haven't even edited between 5 April and 19 July at all, Molobo has not edited during the last months either. I had (?) however been a target of a subgroup of the WP:EEML, where VM and Molobo were (?) active members. On the same day I received the e-mail, I edited the article Königsberg. VM has only edited this article before to twice revert an IP and do a minor edit on 11 Dec 2011, 2 Jan 2011, and also 2 Jan 2012, so I did not interfere with him at that point. A user had added a large, unsourced piece of text to the article [28], which three other users - Herkus Monte (HM), M.K. and an IP objected to because of WP:UNDUE and the lack of sources [29] [30] [31]. My first edits were one minor c/e [32] and adding a reference to a corrected sentence [33]. Then HM made a few other edits. Thereafter, VM came to the article and already in the first 24 hours violated 3RR:
More reverts followed. My further edits to the article were:
That means that VM reverted half of my edits. I stopped editing the article. What triggered this AE request is the following talk page posting I read this morning, where VM attacks me as follows:
I have not responded to that anymore and withdrew from the article. Examples from VM's first talk page contributions directed at various editors, showing that ABF was there from the beginning, are
Volunteer Marek has also assumed bad faith, insulted and accused other people recently (Jimbo got annoyed too [60]) so it is not just me but a general problem, as his block log and these random reactions indicate [61] [62] [63] [64] [65] [66] [67] [68] [69]. I also can not accept the addition of references which do not support the sentences referenced to them: In this post I compared in detail sources VM added to four sentences, and they do not match. VM did look in the source again, as is obvious from the diff before, and still restored it after my removal, so that it is now in the protected version - making wp not only unreliable, but misleading. VM further engaged in a kind of retaliatory tagging: He announced that unsourced sentences of the newly added section could only be removed when all other sentences lacking references would be removed, too (31 Jul 2012 16:40), and started to tag as cn various sentences throughout the article which did not have an inline ref [70] [71] [72] [73] [74], thereby overlooking the fact that there are a lot of references given, just not inline but in the section for sources, and that most (all?) of these sentences have been in there and stable for years. Just before the article was protected, he started to remove sentences tagged by him, e.g. [75]. Molobo, VM's tag team partner from the EEML, who was mentioned in VM's e-mail (28 Jul) as getting annoying when "encouraged," has not edited since 7 April. Let's look at his first contributions upon returning one by one:
I do not believe that Molobo returned from his break by coincidence just to revert HM, then revert me, then go straight to the Königsberg article, given the content of VM's email and the recorded history of VM's and Molobo's cooperation within the EEML. I do not want to have to put up with all that again and again. Skäpperöd ( talk) 21:58, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
both editors have been subject to EEML
The evidence submitted by me shows that
Further, as the (largely off-wiki) evidence of the EEML case shows, this bullying of mine primarily by these persons (VM and Molobo) has been going on for a long long time, and I can not accept that my return from a break is answered by these two editors with an announced attack. I am an editor in perfectly good standing. I have created numerous articles for the benefit of the project. My block log is clean. The editors bullying me on the other hand have a long history of disruption. This goes straight against the very idea of wikipedia and heavily impacts my ability to edit. I ask the sysops here to consider scenarios to change that. One scenario would be re-instating Molobo's permaban and VM's EE-topic ban, making it permanent this time. Another scenario would be to prohibit VM and Molobo from interacting with me (and possibly others, e.g. HM; M.K asked for that too, below) in any way, i.e. prohibit them from talking to me, editing the same articles, talking about me. History of disruption by VM and MoloboMolobo ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) aka MyMoloboaccount ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) was already in 2008 identified as the alter ego of the nationalist forumtroll Shade2 [84] (IPs and behavioral evidence) [85] (behavioral evidence) [86] (confirmation by meanwhile retired sysop). He was identified as sockpuppeteer [87] [88]. He has an extensive block log [89]. He was permabanned [90]. The permaban was lifted only conditionally [91]. He was active in the EEML, especially with respect to hounding and harassing me, but not blocked as he was at that time already blocked for socking (1 year for socking with a throw-away account used to harass me [92]). He is subject to the general remedies of the EEML case though [93], his contrary statement is false. (placeholder) In response to VM's post below: This is not a content dispute, but a behavioral issue, and sysops should, in this respect, consider the WP:EEML case where Volunteer Marek aka Radeksz was subject to, especially with respect to hounding and harassing me (evidence is largely off-wiki, but part of it is accessible in the "Disruption"-FoF at Wikipedia:EEML#Radeksz), the conditions under which his remedies were eased, his block log, and previous AE requests where he was sanctioned:
Re: Misrepresentation of sourcesI provide some response for that "misrepresentation of sources"-thing only for sysops to evaluate whether I actually did so or not, and whether my insistence is justified on the instance that VM's references were not actually sourcing what they were supposed to.
Regarding misrepresentation by omission"-allegation: Ext. preview link to the book. Numerous authors discuss numerous details of libraries and printeries in Königsberg. That I did not include the whole book in an overview about the history of Königsberg is not misrepresentation. Re: Cn-tags
Re: "Outing"/username
What VM referred to below is an old discussion comment by NYB in an AN/I thread, my response to that comment still stands [104]. I encourage sysops to follow that link and actually read the whole AN/I thread. VM claimed there that using his former username was outing him, and NYB in good faith made a comment w/o investigating the issue (quote NYB: "I've accepted Volunteer Marek's statement of concerns on good faith at this time; I hope that it will not be necessary to delve more deeply into the matter."). The thread however took a very different turn when I posted my response: Actually, I had had a dispute with VM and had asked for a 3o that was provided by no other than Molobo. I protested, because I wanted an outside comment. I pointed out the on-wiki identity of VM and Molobo prior to their username changes (which happend during/after the EEML case) on my talk. Then VM ran to AN/I, called pointing to his former username "outing" and asked for an indef block of my account. If that story illustrates anything, then only that VM and Molobo have a long history of harassing me, which did not stop after the EEML case. That Shade2 and Molobo were identified as being the same person by on-wiki revealed IP-adresses and behavioral evidence is on-wiki since 2008, I just linked it here, the RL identity of the respective user is not revealed in any of these diffs [105] [106] [107]. Even more "outing" allegations"re VM's comment below, quote: " I accidentally posted some personal real life info on wiki, including info about my family and friends (names, email addresses etc). This was oversighted. However, Skapperod “captured” the info before it was oversighted and spread it around on Wikipedia. This was oversighted as well."
I request that the allegation contained in the 3rd and 4th sentence is withdrawn at once, and that Volunteer Marek is forbidden to claim that I outed him. Re: previous "unfounded" AEThe AE VM referred to, concerned with what I perceived as ABF, insults etc at the Kołobrzeg article, was Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive43#Radeksz. It is true that the sysop then judged this as a content dispute requiring no action. What the sysop did not know then was that all this was part of a larger, coordinated attack by the EEML, i.e. by VM, Molobo and others, to expel me from that article (note: it is the same article where Molobo reverted just after leaving his last wikibreak, diffs above). The evidence is largely off-wiki, some on-wiki [108], part of it is accessible in the "Disruption"-FoF at Wikipedia:EEML#Radeksz. Digging up that AE again and declare that my "standard modus operandi" does not reflect well on VM.
Discussion concerning Volunteer Marek and MyMoloboaccountStatement by Volunteer MarekThis statement by Skapperod consists of his usual tactic of "diff-padding" - of providing lots of "[diff]" which are either completely irrelevant (my argument with Jimbo over unrelated matters quite some time ago), or which simply don't support what he claims they show. I'm getting a little fed up with this behavior by Skapperod which happens in relation to both sources (sources don't support what he claims) and his perennially filed AE requests (diffs don't support what he claims. My statement was a response to a direct nasty personal attack made by Skapperod This diff, which Skapp gives above is in response to a statement by Skapperod where he said to me and remember that you first provided false sources. This was a straight up, false, personal attack, as I had NOT provided any false sources. What happened was that User:HerkusMonte was disruptively tagging every other word of a particular section of the article (one which he didn't like) with "citation needed" tags, while the remainder of the article sat there mostly unsourced and written like crap. As a result I was trying to get the sources he was asking for into the article. He kept moving and re-adding the "citation tags" which resulted in edit-conflicts and loss of a good time's worth of work, as I had to retype numerous citations again and again (anyone who's formatted citations knows what a pain in the ass that can be). As a result, I just started adding relevant diffs to end of paragraphs rather than particular sentences, standard practice for DYK articles, just to get them "down on paper". What Skapperod is lying about is that just because a ref I provided was at the end of the paragraph and didn't support every single claim in that paragraph (I was still working on this), I "provided false sources". I explained to him several times what had happened, and he responded, ergo, he read the explanation (and seemingly understood it). Yet here again he makes this nonsense accusation, which is soooo bad faithed that yes, I referred to it as "lying your ass off". What is worse, lying your ass off in a dispute in order to win it, or, driven by frustration, to point this out? I take sources, and my reputation for integrity in using those very seriously, and it was clear that Skapperod's attack was completely unwarrented, bad faithed and false (false + bad faithed = ?) This is typical battleground behavior for Skapperod. Abuse of a source by Skapperod which prompted this exchange Keep in mind that the section under dispute is "Poles in Konigsberg". Skapperod added this German language source to the article, although in a completely different section. I went and retrieved the source and then spend some considerable time translating it from German. As it turns out the source itself is very reliable and high quality. Unfortunetly Skapperod's edits based on the source [109] do not reflect what the source says or what it is about. Specifically, Skapperod's edit says Duke Albrecht thus called in a Danzig book printer, Weinrich, who was soon joined by other book printers, to publish Lutheran literature not only in German and (New) Latin, but also in Latvian, Lithuanian, Old Prussian and Polish. Königsberg thus became a center of printing German- and other language books: In 1530, the first Polish translation of Luther's Small Catechism was published by Weinrich Note that in the citation provided Skapperod explicitly says pp. 127-155; esp. p. 127-131. Pages 127 to 131 are the ones which I specifically translated. And the info itself added by Skapp is true enough, but what it fails to mention is that Weinrich was invited to Konigsberg with the specific purpose of printing Polish books and that the first translations of I tried to point out similar problems with the mis-use of the Bock source (again, the source itself is perfectly reliable) on the talk page [110] but Skapperod has not bothered to respond. VolunteerMarek 22:34, 5 August 2012 (UTC) Extensive tag teaming by the same old group The users involved in this dispute, User:M.K, User:HerkusMonte, User:Estlandia (only active on the talk page) and Skapperod himself have long history of supporting each other in POV disputes involving Polish and German topics. In this instance the first two, as well as an anon IP, tag-team edit warred on the article while simultaneous refusing to participate in meaningful discussion on the talk page, aside from empty "IDONTLIKEIT" statements or simple "I support the other guy" claims. As this was going on, I repeatedly raised issues on talk and tried to add in references which HerkusMonte was demanding (for like every other word of the section) with his citation needed tags. As I mentioned above in several instances, Herkus would add a {{cn}} tag, I would spend a good chunk of time looking up a reference, go to the article to insert it, only to find that the text had been removed by one of the other tag teamers - how are you suppose to provide a reference, to a piece of text that has been removed? But no, I did not break 3RR on the article (unless you count adding references after someone slaps in a "cn" tag "reverting"). So Skapperod is making stuff up again. Instead, extremely frustrated (especially for having my time wasted) I asked for advice at [ 3RR talk]. The behavior of the above users, including Skapperod on the article has been extremely disruptive. In particular this practice of first adding a "citation needed" tag to a piece of text, then after another person (myself) spends considerable time finding citations, removing the text all together is very very very annoying. It is also obviously done in bad faithed - why are you even adding "citation needed" tags if your intent is to remove the text anyway? Unless you are *trying* to waste people's time? The ... "misrepresentative" diff padding by Skapperod This diff - as my comment clearly states, HerkusMonte started removing several portions of the article very shortly after they've first been added, but well after I've began the work of providing sources (my first additions of sources were at 6:51 July 31, Herkus' comment was 15:12 July 31). It was clear that I was working on providing the sources so why was he trying to make my job harder by removing stuff in the middle of this work? Additionally, as I point out, ALMOST THE WHOLE article was unsourced at this point, yet Herkus chose to pick on just this one section - so yes, this is a WP:IDONTLIKEIT kind of thing. Actually, you know what, I don't want to make this any more tl;dr then it already is. So here I am just going to relist the diffs Skapperod provides as "evidence". Please click them.
Illustrative example of Skapperod's misreprentations Skapperod says: VM also added references he found on the web. I can not accept the addition of references which do not support the sentences referenced to them: In this post I compared in detail sources VM added to four sentences, and they do not match. VM did look in the source again, as is obvious from the diff before, and still restored it after my removal, so that it is now in the protected version - making wp not only unreliable, but misleading. First, these were not "references found on the web" but rather academically published works. Skapp doesn't tell you that and instead insinuates that I ... I dunno added links to blogs or something. In his post he notes his objections, sure. But, as it has already been explained to him, there was a simple misunderstanding - the relevant diff was at the end of the paragraph rather than the end of the appropriate sentence. Now, let's look at this super-wrong-evil text that got protected into the WP:WRONGVERSION, which makes Wikipedia oh so unreliable and misleading. The relevant current text of the article states: “ In 1545 in Königsberg a Polish catechism was printed by Jan Seklucjan” The source states: “In 1545 Seklucjan published a “Simple Text of the Catechism for the Simple People” [116] The relevant current text of the article states: “ In 1551 the first translation of the New Testament in Polish language came out, issued by Stanisław Murzynowski.”" The source states: “(Seklucjan) used a very modest but talented humanist Stanisalw Murzynowski from Krolewiec as translator, and in 1551 published first the Gospel of Matthew, some months later all four Gospels, in 1552 other New Testament books, and finally in 1553 the whole New Testament in one volume”" [117] The relevant current text of the article states: “Murzynowski's collections of sermons were delivered by Eustace Trepka and in 1574 by Hieronim Malecki. The works of Mikolaj Rej were printed here by Seklucjan” The source states: "Source:”Seklucjan also published the works of Mikolaj Rej, the father of Polish literature” [118] Note the previous source also discusses Malecki and I was about to add a source for Trepka – part of the difficulty is that his name was misspelled – but the article got protected before I had a chance to do so The relevant current text of the article states: “ Marcin Stryjkowski announced in Krolewiec the publication of his Kronika Polska, Litewska, Żmudzka, i wszystkiej Rusi ("A Chronicle of Poland, Lithuania, Samogitia and all Rus")” The source states: "Source: In 1582, Stryjkowski published his chronicle at Konigsberg (Krolewiec)" [119] So please, tell me, is there any truth to Skapperod's contention that I was using 'false source' (which I "found on the web") and that these references do not support the text referred to? Is Wikipedia really going to lose all credibility because this material is included in the WP:WRONGVERSION that got protected? If not, then just keep in mind what's going on here and that this kind of ... mischaracterization, well, characterizes Skapperod's entire report.
VolunteerMarek 08:07, 6 August 2012 (UTC) This is standard MO of Skapperod for which he has been warned before This AE request bares an uncanny resemblance to this one filed a while back by Skapperod, (as well as numerous others of his). In that AE request Skapperod was trying to get me blocked for stating that Skapperod was behaving "disruptively" (he was). Here he is trying to get me sanctioned for pointing out that several users, himself included, were behaving badly on the Konigsberg article, by spamming {cn} tags (while remainder of the article was unreferenced), by removing text and making it hard to actually provide the citations they requested, and then by removing the text which was now sourced, as well as misrepresenting sources (Skapperod in particular with the Bock source, as outlined above). All the time not bothering to participate in talk page discussion. In fact, User:Sandstein's closure of that AE request is worth quoting in full: This looks like a misuse of WP:AE (by Skapperod - VM) in order to win the upper hand in a content dispute. The edits cited in the request are not objectionable; rather, they reflect routine disagreements about content. In particular, it is not disruptive to state one's opinion that "Removing a large chunk of text without discussing it first is generally seen as "disruptive"". Unless other administrators disagree, I will close this thread with a warning to Skäpperöd that AE is not a substitute for, or part of, proper dispute resolution, and that he may face sanctions if he files more unfounded enforcement requests. (my emphasis -VM) and then this comment made by former arbitrator Shell Kinney I am in complete agreement with your reading of the situation Sandstein. (consequently Skapperod would attempt to get Shell in trouble, possibly in retaliation) and then Sandstein concluded: No action. Skäpperöd is warned not to file more unfounded requests. That's all that is going on over here. Again. In fact, Skapperod has been trying to "get me" for quite awhile now. I had the hope that he turned a new leaf and was ready to participate in a constructive manner in improving the relevant articles, since he is somewhat knowledgeable about sources (how he uses them, is another matter). But I guess not. Same ol' same ol'. I have no comment on anything by MyMoloboaccount and I haven't even really looked at his edits. I did not ask him in any way what so ever to comment, edit or otherwise become involved in this article. @Devil's Advocate Actually, MyMoloboaccount's first edit since returning WAS NOT in support of any edit I have made. His first edit was to Konigsberg but it was not related to any issues I have been involved in [122]. In fact, I disagree with him in this regard - he thinks the article should be moved/merged to "Kaliningrad", I'm ok with where it is. His second or so edit was to the Battle of Dirschau article (btw, Herkus is now move warring on that page). I actually have no strong opinion as to what name the article should be under either (though I find this tendentious insistence on German names for places/events in Poland annoying and a waste of time). So actually, two of MyMoloboaccount's first couple edits are not even ones with which I agree with. Skapperod is just paranoid/trying to use imaginary non-happenings as a way of winning a content dispute. Anyway. If you're involved in Polish-German topics, you come back from a four month absence and you look at your watchlist what are you gonna see? Well, people are discussing Konigsberg a lot, so you go there to check out what happens. And seriously, don't you just see how dripping with bad faith statements like "where EEML attacked me before" by Skapperod are? Just because someone reverted him once somewhere. This is just the usual "oh noes they won't let me push my POV in peace" complainin'. And with regard to this EEML well-poisoning (which Skapperod also has been warned about in the past) let me just point out a Principles from a recent ArbCom case:
Please also see my comment at DA's talk page [124]. Bottomline is that if there's supposed to be some kind of tag-teaming by me and MMA then ... well, where is it? Response to MK's post All that M.K does is throw the at-this-point-ridiculous EEML boogeyman around (if there's an EEML around these days, which I seriously doubt, I am not part of it nor am I even aware of it) and then throw in some completely irrelevant diffs about how one time I told somebody who was harassing me on my talk page (whom I asked not to post there half a dozen times) to "fuck off". Note that none of these diffs resulted in any kind of sanction (though the harassment by the other user was discussed by admins). It's just tired old battleground mentality and poisoning the well. Again, M.K and others *were* behaving disruptively on the Konigsberg article - spamming {cn} tags, then after citations were provided, removing the relevant text altogether, and they were tag teaming to do so. To refer to that behavior as "disruptive" is perfectly valid. What exactly is this report about anyway? That MyMoloboaccount posted a short comment to the talk page (he did not make any edits to the article itself)? That I said the users were behaving disruptively? This is a content dispute which, as he has done numerous times before, Skapperod (and his friends) is trying to win via WP:AE instead of discussion on the article talk page. One more time @ Skapperod Skapperod, this is getting ridiculous. Your evidence doesn't show anything of the kind.
[125] Skäpperöd, from now on please refer to Volunteer Marek on-wiki only by his current username. This appears to be a reasonable request on his part given the history and circumstances. Please see the ANI thread for more comments. Thanks, Newyorkbrad ( talk) You've violated this injunction at least several times on this request, including for no apparent reason except intentional harassment. And it is worth reminding everyone WHY you were required to not mention my former username (and hell, the main reason why I changed my username in the first place): you were one of the two users who posted my personal information, all over Wikipedia and spread it around (the info had to be oversighted later on). You seem to be stuck in the same entrenched, tendentious, win-at-all-cost, battleground mode just as when you used that tactic to mess with my real life, two years ago. Just one diff which speaks volumes Skapperod refusing an arbitrator's request VolunteerMarek 05:47, 6 August 2012 (UTC) VolunteerMarek 22:16, 5 August 2012 (UTC) A not short enough summary by Volunteer MarekI'm sorry, it's hard to keep this short. This issue is both simple and complex. Please read the following carefully. The simple part is that this is just Skapperod’s special way of fighting a battleground action. He’s done this many many times before. The complex issue involves the associated details, the history of my interaction with Skapperod and the participation of other users. This AE report by Skapperod is a spurious attempt to gain an upper hand in a content dispute. Skapperod has been instructed in the past not to file these kinds of AE reports, specifically with regard to myself, and has been told that any such reports will result in sanctions against him [126]. The essence of Skapperod’s report, once you strip away the irrelevant diffs and ranting, the innuendo, the scare mongering and conspiracy theories is that:
Additionally
The history with Skapperod
Bottomline
Statement by MyMoloboaccountUPDATE:Only now I realized what trick Skapperod used. He flooded his request with so many links, that one crucial element is missing. What exactly should be enforced ? I am not DIGWUREN of sanctions nor was I subject to EEML sanctions. In fact Skapperod falsely claims: Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) both editors have been subject to EEML. I haven't been placed on EEML sanctions. If Skapperod disagrees then he should give a link to the post where I am placed on any sanctions regarding EEML. In fact he failed to provide any diff for such thing. This is a typical shotgun shooting for sanctions, especially as the case open against VM, block wall of links which lead often to unrelated things provided then casually another user(me) thrown in, even when I am not on any sanctions mentioned, and no link is provided to any sanction to be enforced. Now to continue
[133] In fact in 2008 I already wrote 'In the meantime still gathering research to NPOV the article, extermination of Jews whose population count I added above, discrimination of Polish minority(classified as lower then animals by German state in WW2), use of slaves to develop a city within 1000 year planned Reich, local Nazi movement, and post war revanchist role the city played in contrast to other Germanised territories that underwent degermanisation after the war are interesting subjects which need expansion. --Molobo (talk) 17:12, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
-- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 22:23, 5 August 2012 (UTC) PS:I love the title "Ex-leader of EEML". Actually we title ourselves Silver, Red Dragon. And the leader is titled the Golden Egg on Emerald Throne. -- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 22:40, 5 August 2012 (UTC) BTW: What is exactly that I am accused of? Of editing articles that aren't even subject to any discussion between Skappoerod and VM?:"[ http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Treaty_of_Bromberg&diff=prev&oldid=505787635] Molobo returned to previous article and makes another edit [134] to a talkpage? This is ridiculous, and seems just shotgun shooting of Enforcement request in hopes that somebody doesn't even follow the links that lead to nothing of substance or anything controversial. -- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 22:49, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
What Skapperod mislead here(among many other things) was both editors have been subject to EEML-I haven't been subject to ANY sanctions in EEML case. This very typical-he usually throws numerous accusations that are baseless, eventually someone doesn't double check what he writes or doesn't follow the links, so something manages to go through. Note that he avoided giving link to support his statement-because there isn't any. In any case I performed all my edits on my own, and I haven't been in contact with VM or Piotrus in any way, either by email, or by any other means. Molobo's first edit is to comment on the talk page of this article in support of Marek.- Where? I commented on other issues. As far I remember I didn't comment on the issue VM was debating at all, can you provide a diff supporting this claim? -- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 06:28, 6 August 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Volunteer Marek and MyMoloboaccountComment by The Devil's AdvocateIt is rather conspicuous that after nearly four months Molobo's first edit is to comment on the talk page of this article in support of Marek. To Molobo's query, the DIGWUREN case has since been renamed to be consistent with its function as an Eastern Europe arbitration case and that case allowed admins to issue sanctions at their own discretion against anyone editing in the topic area in violation of policy. The EEML mention appears to be referring to the admonishment to all members of the mailing list to avoid off-wiki collaboration. So there is nothing inappropriate about Skap's report in that respect.-- The Devil's Advocate ( talk) 05:33, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
Comment by HerkusMonteI don't have the time and the patience to go into detail, just a short comment 1. Marek's claim:
This is absurd, I didn't even know M.K. before and we never made any edits on the same article. To call this "Extensive tag teaming by the same old group" leaves me speechless. The whole tag team allegation is completely absurd and just shows Marek's persistent assumption of bad faith. 2. I (not Marek) tried to start a discussion about the lack of sources [137] , however Marek's answer was extremely aggressive [138] ("Tell you what Herkus..." followed by the ususal allegations of "disruptive","tendentious" and "battlegroundy" editing, hardly a constructive way to react). Honestly, I don't see a reason to discuss on such a level of bad faith. 3. Maybe I missed something, but Marek doesn't deny he called Skäpperöd a "shithead" in his email, does he? HerkusMonte ( talk) 15:13, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
Comment by PiotrusI try to avoid getting involved in AE, but seeing as Skapperod mentioned me already "Piotrus, ex-(?)-leader of the EEML", I would like to point out that dragging an old (2009) ArbCom case is not only a case of poisoning the well, but of a personal attack; I do not enjoy seeing my name dragged through ancient mud, and I'd very much prefer if Skapperod would try to move on from the old battlegrounds. What's more, Skapperod uses a single diff to imply I am still a leader of EEML; this is a slanderous claim without any basis in fact, to say the least, and I request that it is refactored, and apologized for. Further, VM cites an example of an AE where Skapperod was warned not to abuse AE to win content disputes. It is worth noting that complaining about VM seems to be a popular pastime of Skapperod's: March 2012; September 2011, and others I don't have time to find. He has also been warned about outing VM ( [139]). Back in 2011, when the last of EEML remedies were amended and discarded by the Committee, he was very active in campaigning against them; see my comment here, where I list close to a ten of examples of Skapperod either requesting sanctions against VM and other EEML members, or commenting in support. And almost always, his requests have been denied. I don't want to get too involved here; I'd suggest that both VM and Skapperod are asked to be more civil in his on-wiki comments, and that Skapperod's engagement with AE is scrutinized by the admins; I feel it may be a time that a restriction from filling AE requests is served here, or perhaps an interaction ban would do more good, as it seems clear to me that Skapperod still feels the need to drag out old incidents and relive old battlegrounds. As most of us have no wish to join him in those reenactions, some remedy is clearly needed. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 19:05, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
A further comment on civility. I also want to point, as an academic (and VM is one, too), the accusation of providing false sources is much, much more uncivil to us than using a cuss word. Cuss words happen, but accusations like that are a direct attack at one's ethical integrity. I am not totally surprised VM lost temper in replying to that. He shouldn't, but please note it was not him who started the chain of personal attacks here. In essence, Skapperod is complaining there that "I started the incivil fight but the other party had the gall to join it in kind!". So if we are going to talk about civility and NPA, both sides seem to be in error here, and should receive a civility/NPA warning. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 17:22, 24 August 2012 (UTC) One more thought. The real problem here is that the editors involved (primarily, VM and Skapperod) cannot talk to one another and resolve their differences. Both assume bad faith, neither is a paragon of virtue in their behavior. At the same time, they both contribute to the area (Baltics), improving content, and they actually need one another. They represent different POVs, and banning one would make the content POVed; banning both would mean we (Wikipedia) gets no content. What we need to do is a solution that forces them to be civil and AGF towards one another. Now, how to arrive at that... I suggested a group 1RR at Ed's page, to deal with reverting and tag teaming. Alternatively or additionally, we could put the affected articles at general 1RR. This should minimize the damages, but civility... is difficult. Mentorship, perhaps? I can try to influence VM, but who would try to mentor Skapperod? -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 17:29, 24 August 2012 (UTC) Comment on MK's participation: your claims would be treated more seriously if your edits for the past months (years) consisted of something else than adding adjective Lithuanian or corresponding name, removing adjectives Polish and Belorusian and corresponding names, and comments on editors you have a grudge against on article's talk or here. (Seriously: I've reviewed your 50 last contribs spanning 4 months, since April 25, and I see maybe ~5 edits that don't fall under the above pattern). If you want to talk about POV-pushing and tag teaming, consider how you look to others first. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 18:16, 24 August 2012 (UTC) Comment by Lothar von RichthofenFew things here annoy me more than unwarranted resurrection of EEML (“curly quotes” and dynamic IPs might trump that). Really what I see here is the standard back-and-forth of two "national interest groups" which is typical of basically anywhere in the topic realm of Eastern Europe. The phantom mailing list stopped being spooky a long time ago, and invoking its name nowadays just comes off as petty mud-slinging. But neither side has clean hands here. A stern and final warning would be my prescription for this, given that both sides have a lot to contribute to the project in spite of their at-times problematic behaviour. I'm not too keen at all on an interaction ban, given that those have tended to compound problems in the past *cough*Polandball*cough*. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen ( talk) 19:45, 6 August 2012 (UTC) Comment by M.KWherever VolunteerMarek goes there will be trouble. I don't like being dragged into these types of his quarrels, least of all involving him. Initially I decided not to comment here, however after noticing user: Volunteer Marek (aka user:Radeksz) insinuations regarding my character I can’t be mute. VolunteerMarek’s claim of tag teaming is fiction It seems that I am only editor who edited Königsberg article back in 2008, but still VolunteerMarek is filling various pages emphasizing that I am in some sort of tag team ending with various editors. [140] Herkus, M.K, Skapperod and now you {Estlandia}? We've got a full house here. Have you guys EVER broken ranks and NOT supported each other mindlessly in these discussions? Then Estlandia is actually Miacek, one of the former members of tag team. Only user: Miacek now renamed user account to user: Estlandia. This clear illustration how desperate this guy to mud other editors and fuel another battleground. VolunteerMarek’s actions are below any reasonable standard Just look into his block log and various reactions which this person had. I just scrolled down of the recent VolunteerMarek’s “contributions” and Königsberg article’s talk page is not exception . Behavior like You're lying your ass off, Oh and btw, my query on RSN in regard to your knee-jerk mindless support of your fellow POV pusher is became a standard to this user:
On the Königsberg article’s talk page past few days VolunteerMarek brought my name at least 9 times if I counted all, in negative context included, like in “disruption”, “tag teaming” etc. Then I brought this name ZERO times. And this is not the isolated article I am afraid. Mostly due to this type of harassment I limited my time on Wikipedia to minimum. Thus I requesting that VolunteerMarek would be placed on interaction ban towards me as I am disgust to see my name all over the place, spammed by this editor. Re-institution of his topic ban should be considered as well, which had only been lifted on the false expectancy that "any relapse is likely to be poorly received." [141] Good standing editors should be protected My clean block log perfectly well shows that I am following good editorial practice from all my heart. Yet, I had to limit my time on WP as good standing editors are not protected from similar harassment and mistreatment (most Lithuanian editors departed unable to withstand such level of harassment). I understand that uninvolved administrators are sick and tired from EE conflicts, but failure to act or comparing the EEML to people targetted by them only bolsters such editors like VolunteerMarek. Action should be taken at least now that “knee-jerk mindless support” “you're an abusive asshole” “*real* nationalist edit warriors” harassment would never show up again. Old WP:EEML is not gone, at least the most of it I belive that no one can honestly say VolunteerMarek, Piotrus and other members have changed their ways. The same behavior which was stressed during WP:EEML arbitration. Everyone wanted to believe the EEML was gone immediately after the revelation in September 2009. In December new mails leaked again. When does that blind-believer crowd vanish? Apparently, Abd, who had joined the EEML, admitted only last year the EEML still exists. I say it is time to end this now. M.K. ( talk) 14:36, 7 August 2012 (UTC) Response to VolunteerMarek misleading information I hoped that with my statement I could point to VolunteerMarek his pastern which is troubling me and hoped that he would knowledge his mistakes and distance himself from them. However after seeing his reply I have no even slightest hopes. As he continuously falsely accuses me of behaving disruptively on the Konigsberg article - spamming {cn} tags among others. In fact I applied no more no less then ZERO {cn} tags in that article. This is another example of desperate VolunteerMarek tactics, to make false claims towards various editors, in hope that neutral editors would not investigate those diffs and take drastic actions involving all parties at least. Not surprisingly that VolunteerMarek is already found to abuse of dispute resolution processes. I kindly suggest neutral editors to be very careful and disregard completely such insinuations. And this is only prove my previous request that I need to be protected form this editor, as his behavior would not change . M.K. ( talk) 19:37, 7 August 2012 (UTC) Comment on proposed solution Participation of neutral editors on this issue is greatly appreciated, however the main point is missed. This is not an issue about one or two topics, this is about editorial conduct of Volunteer Marek and his group. Fact is, that Volunteer Marek and his team were and are continuously harassing editors. In the past I presented a list with direct evidence of harassment by this group on different individuals, back then I counted that user:Deacon of Pndapetzim, user:Sciurinæ, user:Skäpperöd, User:Smith2006 and User:Matthead, user:Russavia were all harassed, while many Lithuanian related editors already left Wikipedia, I wouldn't be surprised that they left WIki because they can not bear such harassment level (personally I limited my editing to extreme minimum, for this reason). I may sound perhaps pessimistic, but lets look into reality - list of ban topics, loose restrictions may work on editors who made first mistakes and ready to change, however Volunteer Marek,Molobo countless times were under various restrictions; many neutral editors showed good faith by lifting them or shortening, but nothing worked as we see. Therefore we need lasting and permanent solutions including but not limited to interaction bans, topic bans, group revert, and "vote" bans etc. Otherwise they will change their focus form one topic or editors to another. Actually that was already done - I was on the Volunteer Marek hit list, not only on the Königsberg article talk page, but I suffered and attempted block shopping carried out by Volunteer Marek. Summarizing: this is not the one topic issue; editors of good standing should be protected by community from these individuals with real steps. M.K. ( talk) 17:12, 24 August 2012 (UTC) As the courtesy note I informing previously mentioned in my comment editors: user:Deacon of Pndapetzim, user:Sciurinæ, User:Smith2006 and User:Matthead, user:Russavia. M.K. ( talk) 11:34, 29 August 2012 (UTC) Comment by VecrumbaI have some knowledge of Königsberg. All VM did was expand content on the role and contribution of Poles to Königsberg as a cultural and intellectual center, content which was all perfectly valid, and which VM kept in its own section, not to glorify Poles but simply to better manage working on expanding content. Rather than other editors expanding the contributions of other ethnic or religious groups, said other editors set upon VM mercilessly, culminating in the crap here.Lastly, I am FUCKING TIRED of hearing about EEML. VєсrumЬа ► TALK 16:50, 9 August 2012 (UTC) Comment by EstlandiaThe mere length of the measures already implemented with regard to Volunteer Marek (listed by Skäpperöd under History of disruption by VM and Molobo) reveals, that a more permanent solution is needed. In the light of this, the lifting of Volunteer Marek's topic ban in 2010 has not justified itself. I suggest considering an indefinite topic ban from Eastern European articles for this user, as he is constantly disruptive and edit warring (just on 25 July he broke 3RR, as explained here, followed by a similar violation on 31 July, as explained by Skäpperöd above). Add to this his constant incivility [142], [143], [144], [145] and the harassment of users with a clean blocklog and in good standing like Skäpperöd to get the full picture. Where battleground is, there's Volunteer Marek. Where Volunteer Marek is, there's incivility. Users like that we can do without. Estlandia (Miacek) (dialogue) 14:06, 11 August 2012 (UTC) Comment by Shrike(uninvolved)If he really abused Wikipedia email system then to avoid further disruption his email should be blocked.-- Shrike ( talk)/ WP:RX 14:11, 11 August 2012 (UTC) Comment by My very best wishesI think you should make a rule to reject all tl;dr monsters that can not be supported by a few clear diffs in the first paragraph from the very beginning. Reject and archive them after 24 hours to minimize disruption. My very best wishes ( talk) 23:04, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
Statement by EdJohnstonWhoever is going to close this AE request has my sympathy. When I first saw this, I feared that it was a low-quality request and admins would not be able to figure out if there was a real problem. I take note of Skäpperöd's comment that he has never been sanctioned. This is correct, though he has been notified of the discretionary sanctions under WP:ARBEE back in 2009. When I searched for Skäpperöd's name in arb cases via this link I found about ten mentions of his name, nine of which were in WP:EEML. As it happens, in WP:EEML there was an apparent tag-teaming effort by some of the mailing list members to work against Skäpperöd on the Szczecin article. This got my attention. It is probably too late to get Skäpperöd to rewrite this complaint in a more convincing matter (and about ten times shorter), but we should still be able to do something. If the present AE is going to be closed in any reasonable time, I suggest it focus on how to make editorial progress on the cities near the Baltic coast where Skäpperöd has traditionally made a lot of contributions. I am not interested in investigating whether anyone was called a 'shithead' in a private email, and I suggest that Skäpperöd send mail to the Arbcom list if he wants to pursue that. I haven't seen any credible evidence of outing and suggest that the topic be dropped from this request. One idea for closing this is that Volunteer Marek and MyMoloboaccount could agree to voluntarily refrain from editing certain Baltic articles that Skäpperöd intends to work on over the next three months. For this to work, Skäpperöd would need to make a list of all the articles in present-day Poland that he is considering improving over that period. EdJohnston ( talk) 05:00, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
Discussion: EdJohnston's proposal@EdJohnston, I apologize if my request was not concise enough, but you are right regarding the background: there is an underlying pattern of harrassment which I feel is continued now by VM and Molobo. Besides the Szczecin tag teaming against me, there were similar incidents that also came to light during the EEML case, eg at Kolobrzeg (EEML evidence) (EEML evidence) (EEML#Radeksz FoF as example for "abuse of dispute resolution processes"); at Police (town) (EEML#Radeksz FoF as example for "'tag team' edit-warring"); other incidents, for privacy reasons only revealed in cryptic form (eg here and here) or left completely in the off-wiki evidence. A more recent incident, also at the Szczecin article, was when I requested a 3O in a dispute with VM [146] [147], and the 3O was thereafter provided by Molobo [148] [ e/s "third opinion provided"], which was assessed by FPaS in this response to Molobo. And now there is the shithead mail and VM and Molobo at Königsberg. I would appreciate if VM and Molobo withdrew from the Baltic coast at least for a while, and I think this can work without me compiling a list since there are only a handful of towns in this area. If there is a need for a list, please ping me (though unfortunately I have very limited time right now, as I pointed out to SB on 23 Aug already [149]). Skäpperöd ( talk) 08:56, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Let me expand on what I said above, as it directly relates to this proposal. The real problem here is that the editors involved (primarily, VM and Skapperod) cannot talk to one another and resolve their differences. Both assume bad faith, neither is a paragon of virtue in their behavior. However, despite the mutual accusations, it is not easy to say whether any has violated polices here (if it was, this AE thread wouldn't have been here for a month, and archived five times as of now...). At the same time, they both contribute valuable to the area (Baltics), improving content, and they actually need one another. They represent different POVs, and banning one would make the content POVed; banning both would mean we (Wikipedia) gets no content. What we need to do is a solution that will try to reform them, and will lessen a chance that they will be back here in few weeks or months, but at the same time does not hurt Wikipedia by removing their mostly valuable contributions. A solution that forces them to be civil and AGF towards one another; They need to move on from the past battlegrounds - and I know this is one of the most difficult things to remedy with the tools we have. Now, how to arrive at that... I suggested a group 1RR at Ed's page, to deal with reverting and tag teaming. It should be possible, by looking at the diffs here, to figure out who the sides are in recent revert wars and group them accordingly. Alternatively or additionally, we could put the affected articles at general 1RR. This should minimize the damages to content, but guaranteeing civility... is more difficult. Mentorship, perhaps? I can try to influence VM (if nobody else volunteers), but who would try to mentor Skapperod? The mentors could serve as a committee on their behavior, with a dedicated page that others could complain. The mentors would review the complains and could tell the mentees to refactor/apologize, and such. If the parties appear at AE again, the mentors could then provide their opinions on the behavior of the mentees, hopefully adding valuable input allowing more serious sanctions to be levied then, if the mentees have not reformed. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 16:08, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Result concerning Volunteer Marek and MyMoloboaccount
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| No action taken. EdJohnston ( talk) 23:43, 30 August 2012 (UTC) | ||
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| The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. | ||
Request concerning Debresser
1RR posted on talk page of article. After the violation, Frederico1234 requested that Derebesser self-revert. The user refused, claiming that because the first revert was a revert of an edit from a week ago that it does not count as a revert under the 1RR.
About a week ago, Debresser removed the line in the lead and the section in the body about the illegality of a specific Israeli settlement. A talk page discussion ensued, with no consensus being established for the change. Today, Debresser partially repeats this performance. I was going to leave it alone, however in this edit Debresser requests somebody else to continue the edit war, which another user promptly did. Given that Debresser had already violated the 1RR him/herself, the fact that he was requesting somebody else perform yet another revert caused me to bring the violation here.
Folks, Debresser just violated the 1RR again. The reverts are this and this. It is clear that the user refuses to abide by simple rules, claiming that others are edit-warring and he or she is just following policy. If need be a new section will be opened to deal with this. nableezy - 19:49, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning DebresserStatement by DebresserPlease see User_talk:Debresser#1RR_violation_at_Beitar_Illit, where I replied to the posting editor. If there was a violation over here, then it was made unwittingly, and I accept whatever steps this committee feels it must take against me. As to the posting editor, I think he is just looking for a way to make me some minor trouble, in order to bully me and other editors who disagree with his biased POVs. Debresser ( talk) 19:26, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning DebresserJust noticed that Nableezy insinuated that I somehow continued an edit war on behalf of an editor's request that I never noticed (I was directed to the page from a notice on a WikiProject, I never received any "request" to continue an "edit war")... OK? As far as I could tell, the dispute was concerning the lead, not the section I edited (I discussed the lead on the talk page but did not edit it)... A bit taken aback at that. -- Activism 1234 19:08, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
Also, if I understand this right, this was the revert in question. It'd be impossible though for the editor to self-revert, considering that Nableezy reverted it shortly after that, here. It's obvious from the talk page of the editor that the editor wasn't clear on exactly what 1RR was, and simply explaining it to that editor better should've sufficed, but to self-revert isn't possible since it was already reverted, it seems. -- Activism 1234 19:14, 21 August 2012 (UTC) Note that Debresser continues to misconstrue 1RR then, as he or she has just now reverted me on the same page here without discussion at all.— alf laylah wa laylah ( talk) 19:24, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
Comment - The message in the Israel, Palestine and Judaism Wikiprojects is called "Invitation to discussion" and says "There is a discussion on the Beitar Illit about the removal of part of a generic text which is sourced to general sources, not specific to Beitar Illit. Please weigh in. " (my bolding) It doesn't say, edit the article and leave an edit summary that says "Irrelevant - this is synthesis, appropriate for an article on Israeli settlements (already exists), NOT for POV pushing here". Just saying. One day the discretionary sanctions might start working. Sean.hoyland - talk 19:31, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
<-Activism1234, this is what happened.
Comment - As far as I can see, Debresser has still not acknowledged that he violated 1RR, as he thinks his first revert was not actually a revert (see discussion following my notification on his talk page). I would advice the administrators to explain to Debresser that his first edit was indeed a revert. -- Frederico1234 ( talk) 05:07, 23 August 2012 (UTC) KC, I now do have a serious objection. As Nableezy notes above, Debresser just violated 1RR again despite this discussion, the ongoing discussion on the article talk page, and the ongoing discussion on the user's page about 1RR.— alf laylah wa laylah ( talk) 19:52, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
To help out a bit, here's the diff of the self-revert. -- Activism 1234 23:15, 23 August 2012 (UTC) Result concerning Debresser
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