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Arbcom case: The Troubles.
Manticore126 ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Editor has chosen to repeatedly edit war ( [1] [2] [3]) changing Derry to Londonderry against the consensus at WP:IMOS, despite being told of this, and receiving a Troubles warning before the last edit. O Fenian ( talk) 18:09, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
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Arbcom case: The Troubles.
Falls Orangeman ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
For over a week this editor has made the same repeated, inflammatory, point-of-view edits to Falls Road, Belfast. They were notified of the sanctions here, yet proceeded to make virtually the same edit again here. To show how biased the edit is, even Mooretwin has taken exception to the edit, which to any admins familiar with Troubles articles should be unusual, as it is not often Mooretwin, Domer48, BigDunc and myself are all in agreement. In his latest edit he has chosen not to claim that "Catholic militants" were killed in the Falls Curfew instead of the sourced "Catholic civilians", and has instead labelled them "Catholic terrorists". This is a disgusting attack on the dead, see 3 and 4 July for online confirmation those killed were civilians, not members of any paramilitary organsation. Request action to be taken against this editor please. O Fenian ( talk) 11:47, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
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Baku87 ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been blocked in the past for 48 hours under WP:ARBAA2. Under WP:ARBAA2 editors are limited to 1 revert per week, editors must maintain civility, and editors must discuss their reverts. Recently Baku87 has revert warred exceeding the 1 rv per week restriction at article Shusha and has been uncivil in the edit summaries of his reverts at the articles Stepanakert and Shusha or has not provided edit summaries.
Reverts at Shusha
Incivility or no edit summaries at articles Shusha and Stepanakert
I believe that this type of behavior does the project harm as constructive edits are reverted without discussion. Pocopocopocopoco ( talk) 01:59, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
More revert waring by Baku87
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And yet another edit warrior, reverting multiple pages at once. Just today 216.165.12.158 ( talk · contribs · WHOIS) reverted a large number of pages, mostly replacing Shusha with Shushi, Russian empire with Nagorno-Karabakh. As one can see, he reverts in tandem with User:Vacio. This should be stopped. Grand master 07:41, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
See here for previous report from last week.
Jingiby ( talk · contribs) is currently under a 6 months revert parole under WP:ARBMAC imposed by myself, which will nominally end in a few days. He has been repeatedly found to ignore those restrictions in the course of the last few weeks. He had two blocks for revert-warring in February alone. Coming fresh off his latest 1-week block, he violated the restriction again today, with this edit [28] (ignoring the rule that he needs to precede every revert with an explanation on talk followed by a waiting time to allow for discussion. Note that I am the reverted party here, so I'm "involved".) In conclusion of my last report here, User:Kevin recommended that the sanctions should be reviewed at this point, "given their lack of success so far". So, here I am again with a request for such a review.
My own suggestion is we should at least reinstate the revert limitation, with a very strict reminder that they are going to be enforced. I wouldn't necessarily plead for a full ban – this editor has his lucid moments where he can edit relatively constructively. But he's definitely the sort of guy you need to keep away from the revert button for his own good. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:29, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
I have extended the revert parole, with a warning of the consequences of a breach. Let's see how it goes this time.
Kevin (
talk) 10:12, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
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User:White_adept has openely defied all the arbitration rulings. I sincerely request somebody to look into this case.
Background:
Arbitration rulings and violations by User:White_adept
As far as I can see they look suspect. For example #Baku87 could strictly be done as a mathematical calculation as to whether user:Baku87 has exceeded revert limitations in WP:ARBAA2 which are a maximum of 1 revert per week. He has done this in two articles yet Jehochman closed that saying "This report looks meritless. The first two edits complained about appear to be helpful rather than harmful". It is irrelevant whether the first two edits appear to be helpful, if they are not reverts of vandalism then user:Baku87 has breached ARBAA2. For convenience I am copying the reverts below:
Reverts at Shusha
Reverts at file:Azerbaijan_Democratic_Republic_1918-1920_Map.jpg
Incivility or no edit summaries at articles Shusha and Stepanakert
Also, this closure appears that Jehochman closes it as it was too long. I don't see that this is a valid reason to close that request. Pocopocopocopoco ( talk) 03:08, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
(unindent)I have no problem working on other articles, if you look at my edit history that is what I have been doing and have made barely any edits to AA articles. You are wrong about my post here enabling disruption on articles, my post with regard to
user:Baku87 was an attempt to stop disruption at the articles
Stepankert and
Shusha. Your quick closure of my complaint couple followed with a topic block when I questioned your judgement causes disruption to AA articles. What is happening here:
1) You made closures on this page that I questioned
2) When I used the dispute resolution process to have another admin review the situation you gave me an topic ban.
3) When I questioned your topic ban you threatened a total ban.
This is completely inappropriate.
Pocopocopocopoco (
talk) 04:59, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
(unindent)So I take it you were not able to find any disruptive edits done by me recently in AA articles. My edits at this thread were not helpful in what way? In that thread I tried to express the fact that VartanM was reverting a source that referred to Armenians as parasites? If I see anyone getting blocked for reverting a source that refers to an ethnicity as parasites I plan to speak up. Deal with it. You did not issue a warning at that thread, you said "if you have a case state it plainly with diffs". I did this and you put a topic block on me. Let me repeat for the last time, I did not attack you. Politely requesting review of your closures is not an attack. If you consider this an attack then perhaps you need a break from the mop. Do not pressuppose that my complaint at #Baku87 was a reciprocal complaint. My only reason for filing #Baku87 was that there was disruption caused at Stepanakert and Shusha by user:Baku87 and it needed to be stopped. Pocopocopocopoco ( talk) 05:47, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
Jehochman? If your administrative decisions are correct then an uninvolved administrator would confirm their correctness. I have no history in the Armenia-Azerbaijan dispute and no knowledge of whether your decision is technically correct, but your action takes on an unpleasant appearance in the present context--even if you're right on the merits, it could easily be misread as an effort to silence criticism. Suggesting, procedurally, that you lift this topic ban and withdraw from this thread. Another administrator will confirm your actions if they are merited. (Fair disclosure: Jehochman and I do have a history; here's hoping this comment is accepted by all parties in good faith and on its merits). Durova Charge! 06:34, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
this closure was fine, as the complaint brought no new information and there was no reason to keep it open. This closure, while also fine, could have been explained more fully. Each or all sides are entitled to see arbcom remedies applied across the board fairly, without being dismissed contemptuously (because the next admin may not act like that, and thus there will be unfairness). AE admins expect each side will try to get the other in trouble, but this is one of the most critical mechanisms for helping AE admins do their job. AE admins also need the scope to say enough is enough when it is necessary and discourage constant forum shopping in order to limit it to substantial complaints; this is why Jehochman's actions are acceptable. What Jehochman should have done is point out that ARBAA2 does not restrict all users, but rather provides that administrators are allowed to place users under restriction. Baku has not yet been listed at Wikipedia:ARBAA2#List_of_users_placed_under_supervision, and so Jehochman happened to be correct in saying the report was meritless. The question of whether Baku ought to be put on restriction might have been considered too. Regarding Pocopocopocopoco's restriction, I'd encourage Jehochman however to read Wikipedia:ARBAA2#Amended_Remedies_and_Enforcement, Prior to any sanctions being imposed, the editor in question shall be given a warning with a link to this decision; and, where appropriate, should be counseled on specific steps that he or she can take to improve his or her editing in accordance with relevant policies and guidelines. I say this because I don't see Jehochman following this procedure here, but I don't say it with force. The reason for the latter is that in practice the ARBAA2 ruling isn't working out fairly because in practice it is rather random which users are under restriction and which ones aren't; i.e. I've seen that while some hyper-nationalist revert warriors are on 1rr per week others can revert 3rr per day, as normal, which is grossly grossly unfair. So on the one han d I think the good AE admin has to take previous admin interpretations more seriously than the ArbCom ruling itself (i.e. restrict users as quickly as previous administrators have restricted them, not as ARBCOM said, unless of course all previous restrictions got reviewed), but on the other hand Jehochman should understand that restricting users so callously sets up a precedent that future admins might have to follow, and so care should be exercised. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk) 11:58, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
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Vacio ( talk · contribs) has been twice placed on editing restrictions, but both times the sanctions were lifted, first time because the admin was given incorrect information that Vacio had no prior warning, [34] [35] [36] and second time after Vacio promised not to edit war. [37] [38] However he continues edit warring on a big number of articles. Today he mass reverted pages without any consensus on using the place name that he prefers. He made 9 reverts at once: [39] [40] [41] [42] [43] [44] [45] [46], replacing Russian empire with Nagorno-Karabakh, and the city name of Shusha with Shushi, despite the fact that when the city was a part of the Russian empire, it was officially called Shusha, and no such state as Nagorno-Karabakh ever existed. In addition, he made another controversial revert on Nakhchivan: [47], which is his second revert on that article during this week: [48] As one can see, an official warning, and imposition of editing restrictions twice had no effect, and the lifting of editing restrictions was a mistake. According to the ruling of the arbitration case Armenia-Azerbaijan 2, Any uninvolved administrator may, on his or her own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor working in the area of conflict if, despite being warned, that editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process. I believe it is time to place Vacio on editing restrictions once again, and this time permanently. Grand master 16:54, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
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I really have difficulty with VartanM’s block; he did not act anywhere near as bad as Parishan has. Since when should someone be blocked for reverting an obvious revert material, and given the circumstances, vandalism? Did any administrator check what the content of the revert was? This user (Parishan) has no use of other users comment to even engage in debating. The article for which he was reported shows Parishan engaging in fringe theory pushing. This is what Parishan was inserting: Azeri served as a lingua franca throughout most parts of Transcaucasia (except the Black Sea coast), in Southern Dagestan[8][9][10], Turkish Armenia, Kurdistan and Northern Persia from the sixteenth century to the early twentieth century.[11][12] It is unlikelly that Parishan could not have known that the material he was inserting was bogus. Let’s see the two sources he has used, first source: Nasledie Chingiskhana by Nikolai Trubetzkoy. Agraf, 1999; p. 478. In those pages you will also find Armenians being called: parasite and slave. Parishan’s cherry picking and twisting of sources is again at the center of the problem. See under which context it was said: However, it is far from unimportant, what languages to precisely select for this purpose. The author has a policy of instoring one language in that region. He claims Azeri being a good choice because, from his words: larger part of Transcaucasia (besides the Black Sea coast) and, furthermore, in Turkish Armenia, Kurdistan and in northern [Persia]. Parishan’s version which reads: from the sixteenth century to the early twentieth century is supposed to be sourced with this. But the work was published in 1925, and was speaking about a period when there were no Armenians left in Turkish Armenia. So how can his wording even be justifiable, how do you debate with someone who will bring you in a circular discussion about an obvious revert material? More is that the writer, while a credible linguist is not credible here for two reasons, first because the work, which support his theories about the Muscovite princes (he was one such prince) claims them to be the heirs of the Chinggisid rulers. (see here). The second reason is that it was the interest of Russian authors during his period to associate Turkish people with Azeri, because Russia was still laying claims against Turkey. But the author also says that Azeri is a Turkish language. In any case, Turkish Armenia refers to pre modern Eastern Turkey and on top of that, Parishan added a date range which was not supported by that source, adding the date range shows that he knew to what period Turkish Armenia referred too. The second source used by Parishan, J. N. Postgate. Languages of Iraq. British School of Archaeology in Iraq, 2007; ISBN 090347221X; p. 164, does not even require an address to, as it does not support his wording... worst, is that Parishan quoted of it in the talkpage, left down junk of text, replaced by three dots. Problem is that without retrieving what is in those three dots, the source which already does not support his claim, becomes totally useless. Adding insult to the injury, the author himself place the term Azerbaijani in quotation marks. We are supposed to debate with a user, who time and again misuses sources, and when revert has no problem reverting. I or any other users would have reverted Parishan, I don't see why under those circumstances VartanM should be punished for it.
More about the reverts, it's hard to accept the fact that, Brandmeister could go on to disturb articles' integrity by renaming them. He even claimed that it is per talk, when even Grandmaster admitted not having a problem with the name of the article. Brandmeister’s revert was indeed completely unacceptable. Reverting his action, should be in fact considered as vandalism. How can a user comes out of the blue and rename an article, which both side have agreed to the name of, and then the revert of this revert be used to block another user? Even the chargé d'affair of the republic of Azerbaijan, Farid Shafiyev has used that term to refer to the incident, so reasonably there should be no problem to call it that, when the very large majority of sources call it that. How in the world should any user accept Brandmeister’s actions, and leave it at that, because of a 1RR. Mind that the AA2 does not restrict only to 1RR, in fact it was amended because it had to include other forms of disruptions.
About said map of the Azerbaijani republic from 1918-20, I think the disruption going on there can not be left unanswered, I am referring to this. See from where the source comes from, it is a recently prepared map which was placed recently in the websites of the republic of Azerbaijan. Not one user has provided any sources with those frontiers. Will any good faithed user caring for accuracy vote “keep” for something which he can't substantiate? See here Grandmaster who voted keeps saying that a part which is included in that republic was independent as another republic. What's more is that that map is against the majority position. The National Georgraphic visited Armenia twice, it did draw a map of the republic of Armenia from 1918-1920, here is a copy of that map.
About Nakhichevan, the article contains the Armenian word in the lead, Grandmaster or other users did not have a problem with it for a long time, problems only started with Brandmeister’s revert, from then on, Parishan, Baku87, Grandmaster and the revert had all a problem with. Azeri, English or all foreign names derives from the Armenian word for the place. It is of course logical to include the source of that name and is even common usage. Half the article includes its history, where Nakhichevan has been in Armenia since the 6th century. VartanM argument was never addressed; he did not even receive a reply for it. How can anyone revert without even bothering to answer him, not even with an edit summary.
All those incidents happened all together, seems there is a disastrous effect on Wikipedia when Moreschi is away. In brief, if VartanM should be punished, others should too. Thank you. Fedayee ( talk) 23:30, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
Based on the fact that VartanM was blocked for reverting content in which the source of the content had referred to Armenians as 'parasite and slave' and it does look like he was baited I believe VartanM's block should be overturned. Pocopocopocopoco ( talk) 00:19, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
No he did not face 'any' arguments, in fact he was reverted without prior argumentation. Your renaming was absolutely unacceptable and you continue misleading by claiming per talk. There was no per talk, this is what Grandmaster wrote in the talk: The title can remain,..., and this was the issue which was debated, as you can see from the sources provided by Grandmaster, the article’s title was not what was debated, but rather the intro, as even his sources call it Armenian-Tatar... (and Grandmaster never attempted to deny that) You came up there and moved the article, not knowing what the conflict was all about. Here is a sample of Grandmaster's revert, which shows indeed that the problem and what was debated about was the intro and not the lead. So yes, you did indeed jump in by moving the article twice [56] by refering to the talk, when the debate was not even about the article’s title. Had Moreschi been here, you would have surely ended up with at the very least a strong warning for this. How can such a disruption be even allowed?
Here is more evidence that you did not even read Vartan, had you read the link to his reply which you totally ignored, you will see that it was even not referring to his 'other Roman' example, but rather on the use of foreign name in the lead of articles, he provided Alpenglow as example, and if you check the article Rome, you will see the Latin origin of the word. You did not even bother reading what he was providing, in fact, you just reverted him. This makes Vartan’s revert justified in the talkpage, yours not, but he ended up being the editor who was blocked.
And your claim that there is no baiting campaign falls short, if we check the recent contributions by some users, we see that is what happened. Baki66, for instance. Baki66 reverts VartanM in Nakhichevan article, removing the Armenian term, without ever having written a word in the talkpage, Vartan was even not worthy of a comment in the edit summary. After doing this, he will be adding the Azeri term on Kars article, he will reinsert the disputed map, then revert Zlerman, then go on with a series of reverts [57], [58], [59], [60], [61], [62], [63], [64]. Finishing it all this and this.
Vartan’s block was not fair, and is the result of ignorance, from an administrator who did not bother viewing and checking what was happening. See here for instance, when reports become a little too much complex, we are even not worthy of being answered, or our request given consideration. Only when it is about 1RR or incivility can we get any reply. Vartan discussed and justified, he was reverted by members who did not even bother justifying. In Parishan's case, he was punished for reverting a fringe theory, something which Parishan has been pushing on several articles for years. It's not that this was never documented, it was. - Fedayee ( talk) 03:51, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
The empty room is full of people who care. :) Meowy 23:59, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
Someone oughta take a look at this user. Over a dozen reverts today. Some sort of a revert warrior that just popped up of nowhere sans any useful contributions, ever.-- Ευπάτωρ Talk!! 18:32, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
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I advised Colin4C on their talk page that the article was subject to AE sanctions here and outlined what areas were covered by the sanctions which they chose to ignore. I removed the chronology here and went to the talk page to state why here although they knew this from previous discussions as can be seen here in addition to here. I also pointed out that they removed the link to the article created by Rockpocket here and ignored the advice of both Angusmclellan which was offered here and by Rockpocket here.
Colin4C then made their first revert here and their second revert here both within a 24hr period.
The article already has an article on the chronological summary and is linked to article, which resulted from a discussion here, with advice offered here. It was acted upon here by Rockpocket, who answered questions on it here during a discussion on it here.
What I’d like to see happen is Colin4C self revert, that Admin’s tell Colin4C that the article does fall under the AE sanctions and they breeched them, and that if they want to add a Chronology they get consensus on the article talk page. -- Domer48 'fenian' 12:29, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
Per AE Sanctions: All articles related to The Troubles, defined as: any article that could be reasonably construed as being related to The Troubles, Irish nationalism, the Baronetcies, and British nationalism in relation to Ireland falls under WP:1RR. When in doubt, assume it is related. I think that is pretty clear User talk:Black Kite don't you? As to "sounds a little too much like gaming the system" is a matter of opinion, does not change the fact that the sanctions were breeched. Or is this just more of the double standerds we've come to expect. Now do me a favour, tell me what sanctions I asked for here? Oh that's right, none. I think I'm being reasonable don't you? -- Domer48 'fenian' 13:14, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
I find it difficult to view this post positively given that the reporter, Domer, has reverted twice too, and unlike ( AGF) the reportee, is well experienced with ([dare I say] gaming) the rules and knows that All articles related to The Troubles, defined as: any article that could be reasonably construed as being related to The Troubles, Irish nationalism, the Baronetcies, and British nationalism in relation to Ireland falls under 1RR. When in doubt, assume it is related. Moreover, Domer48, unlike Colin, has previously been placed already been placed on "indefinite" probation here, and got this removed after a being conditionally released from a later indefinite block. See also his record on Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/The_Great_Hunger#Enforcement_2. Admining by the book, this is a 72 hour to 1 week block for Domer (if we discount the extra hour), and 12—24 hours for Colin. I'd suggest talking to each other in good faith is something both parties might want to give a wee try for a change. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk) 13:19, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for that User talk:Black Kite for striking you comments above it’s very much appreciated. Now Deacon of Pndapetzim the facts are that I did not breech the 1RR! That's it! Anything else is a matter of opinion. Now that’s going by the book. There is however the other book, the arbitrary powers book which has nothing to do with policies and which you are now citing from. No point asking for cites from it, since it’s made up as we go along. What happened to that indef probation on me? Oh ye it was thrown out for the joke that it was. And the Famine ArbCom, oh ye the other editor was banned as a sock abusing editor. Why not mention the block for 3RR on me were the blocking Admin lost their tools, and I only reverted twice on that occasion. We could mention the block for calling an editor a liar, along with countless diff’s to support it, the problem is it’s not against the rules to call someone a liar when we apply the double standard [76] [77] . So the question I have is, is the Famine covered by AE Sanctions. Deacon of Pndapetzim letting an editor know about the sanctions before they breech them is not game an editor, want to strike the comments like User talk:Black Kite or stick with the accusation. -- Domer48 'fenian' 13:43, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
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Apologies for taking up your time with such a minor thing, but in the upcoming Judea/Samaria terminology ArbCom case, I'm worried the limited topic ban Elonka placed on me will be used again to cast undue doubt on my conduct. Upon finding it had been placed erroneously, Elonka promised to lift or at least reduce it after one week [78], then forgot about it and went on a Wikibreak. In her absence, I have been advised by PhilKnight to take the appeal here.
Details: On 15 February 2009, Elonka wrote:
MeteorMaker, you have been cautioned before about removing citations to reliable sources. Since you have started up again, I am going to make this formal: You are banned from
- Making Samaria-related reverts to any article in the Israel/Palestine topic area
- Removing reliable citations from any article in the topic area.
This ban is in place for 90 days. [79]
Upon finding that I had in fact not removed any sources, the reason for the ban was changed:
MeteorMaker,
you have been cautioned before about removing citations to reliable sources. Since you have started up again, I am going to make this formal:based on the recent pattern of reverts, and working your way through several Israel-Palestine articles and making Samaria-related reverts, I am therefore instituting a formal ban [80]
I had not been cautioned about making Samaria-related reverts before the ban, and the number of Samaria-related reverts I had made in the preceding week was exactly two — hardly enough to discern a "pattern" [81]. Both were in order to fix problems with claims that were either unsourced [82] or sourced exclusively with highly partisan refs [83]. Elonka confirms I had not done what I was originally banned for:
You are correct about the citation thing. I saw the edit summary, and that citations had been removed, but missed the part about you moving the citations to a different part of the article. I am amending my statement accordingly, and apologize for my error.
Elonka continues:
Regardless of the citation issue though, I am still concerned by the recent history that you've been showing of working your way through multiple articles and removing the "Samaria" term. This is provocative behavior, especially when done rapid-fire through multiple articles in a topic area that's already very difficult to keep stable. In some cases, I see that your change has already been reverted. It's good that you did not re-revert, but it's also a concern that these controversial changes were being made, without any attempt at discussion on the related talkpages.
I had not been cautioned that substituting universally accepted, neutral terminology ("West Bank") for minority partisan terminology ("Samaria"/"Judea") constitutes "controversial changes" and "provocative behavior" that may result in a ban. The "without any attempt at discussion" charge is not entirely applicable, as this topic is among the most well-discussed and well-sourced in the I/P field, and I've generally put a link in the edit summaries to a special page with a summary of this multi-talkpage discussion and the sources it has generated. [84], rather than repeating the same arguments over and over. Other editors have also stated that this discussion is best kept centralized; currently, most of the relevant terminology debate has taken place on TALK:Israeli_settlement and its archive pages.
Elonka concludes:
In terms of the ban, I'm open to reducing it, but let's see how things go for a week, and then we can re-examine the situation and see about reducing (or even lifting) the ban.
One week later, she announced she's taking a wikibreak, and I cannot reach her. Given that she has stated that she intended to shorten/lift the band, and that the ban was based on extremely loose ground in the first place, I hereby appeal to have it lifted. MeteorMaker ( talk) 10:46, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
I noticed Dabomb87 had mass-delinked dates in four articles recently, in contravention of the injunction in the date delinking case. I've returned them to their prior state where I could (three of four) and left him a note asking him to refrain from doing so again before the injunction is listed. I don't think it requires any action, but felt it should be noted here. — Hex (❝?!❞) 06:41, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
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2009 Hamas reprisal attacks has been named so after consensus discussion in the talk page.
User:Yamanam started to change the name unilaterally:
Began here: [85], ended here [86].
His talk page comment, when questioned at first: [87]. It is patently obvious to anyone that 2009 Hamas reprisal attacks is a much more neutral, balanced and encyclopedic title than the current one, which as pointed out by another user, is mangled english to boot.
I attempted revert to the original name, but a bot had fixed the double-redirect, so move-over-redirect is not possible. It requires admin intervention.
Besides immediate return of the article to the original title, I leave it to admins as to how to address the behavior.
But I must say that in the entire time I have edited WP:ARBPIA articles I have not seen a more crass example of POV pushing and provocative, destructive behavior. This is why I am takign it straight to AE. I cannot assume good faith in these circumstances, so I ask for uninvolved admin intervention.-- Cerejota ( talk) 13:17, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
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Despite already having received a block for violating the current injunction in the date delinking arbitration ( AE report, block notification), Ohconfucius is once again engaging in a program of removing date links from articles en masse as part of edits. Examples:
[88] [89] [90] [91] [92] [93] [94] [95] [96] [97] [98] [99] [100] [101] [102] [103] [104] [105] [106] [107] [108]
— Hex (❝?!❞) 03:28, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
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For heaven's sake.... (fill the rest in yourselves) Kevin ( talk) 01:45, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
I have warned this user for this edit which is technically a violation of his (ill-thought out, rediculous) topic ban. Hipocrite ( talk) 01:12, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Before SA made his spelling correction, however, User:Abd invoked his name, in direct violation of the "Baiting" principle. In this edit, made before SA had violated his ban, Abd wrote "Have you read Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Fringe science? Might be worth the time. Read it carefully, and note the result for ScienceApologist." Science Apologist had not edited Cold Fusion or it's talk page since December of 2008 Why would Abd bring up Science Apologist on a page Science Apologist had not edited for over two months if not to join in the "persistent low-level attacks and other continuous goading of specific editors in order to exhaust their patience and induce them to lash out in an uncivil manner."
User:Abd had been warned for similar conduct - most recently by User:Stephan Schulz at 07:54, 4 March 2009. Hipocrite ( talk) 01:12, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
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This edit is extremely problematic. The user in question is including numerous blatant mischaracterizations of sources, cherry-picking only General Ripper-esque conspircy theory sources, and conforming the article to a coatrack status in stark defiance to the warnings imposed upon him directly through this very board not two days ago [109], [110]. Per this arbitration decision I ask that this user be explicitly warned about his promotion of water fluoridation paranoia rhetoric and perhaps even given a break from editing such articles.
ScienceApologist ( talk) 15:21, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
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User:ScienceApologist is evidently testing the limits of Requests for arbitration/Fringe science, where he was topic-banned for a variety of infractions, including:
Obviously, ScienceApologist has not (in practice) learned much, since he has continued with two more examples in the above vein:
Using someone's affiliations as a means of dismissing or discrediting their views—regardless of whether said affiliations are mainstream. Note that although pointing out an editor's relevant conflict of interest is not considered a personal attack, speculating on the real life identity of another editor may constitute outing, which is a serious offense.
The substance of both of SA's actions above (against II and myself) can legitimately be dismissed under WP:SNOW. Still, these are flagrant violations of WP:GAME and WP:HARASSMENT (and, let's be real, WP:DICK) for sure; exactly the sort of thing those ArbCom findings above identified as problematic.
Personally, I'm significantly more annoyed and discouraged about editing than I was before this happened, which I'm sure is the result SA intended (plus, some people actually enjoy poking others with sharp sticks).
I think that the relevant ArbCom case sent a clear message to SA -- that you can improve content without being a dick -- which he is now trying to test the limits of. The question of whether SA can't or won't change his behavior is somewhat interesting, but in any case the remedy is clear. Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Fringe_science#Editors_warned says:
Please, sanction him swiftly and surely, and help put an end to this corrosive anti-collegiality that is (as the case noted) driving away good editors and having a bad effect on the project.
Finally, in the interest of avoiding duplication and the appearance of forum-shopping, I'm raising the above issues here only. My complaint about the WP:OUTING attempt is real, and is included in the above. best regards, Middle 8 ( talk) 00:06, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
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This edit is extremely problematic. The user in question User:Middle 8 is adopting a combative and derisive tone and claims the mantle of NPOV problematically while supporting the sympathetic POV towards acupuncture. I happen to know that this user gets paid to perform acupuncture (evidence can be had privately so as to avoid outing concerns). Per this arbitration decision I as that this user be warned against this kind of behavior. ScienceApologist ( talk) 20:20, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
←OK, since my name is being bandied about here, I'm going to comment. First, I didn't like the tone of the edit summary. Now, all who know me would assume that I'd have verbally clobbered Middle 8 under normal circumstances. My not doing so was not an oversight on my part. Although I do not agree with Middle 8's edits, I have found that in his previous incarnation, he was semi-reasonable. I was willing to overlook his edit summary with a little banter, and did respond to him on the discussion page to see if we could work out a compromise. This doesn't mean I accept Middle 8's view of things, hardly. It's more like I'm willing to massage verbiage a bit. So, everyone needs to lighten up a tad. Yes, I thought the edit summary was over the top, considering Middle 8 and I have had a collegial relationship. Yes SA should have come to my defense (but probably not here), since he did not know about our banter. I know that Middle 8 has a vested interested in acupuncture, so he has to overlook his personal bias to keep the NPOV on the article. We had a Chiropractic editor who was not a very compromising editor, and I gave him crap all the time. I know where SA is coming from, and I know where Middle 8 is coming from. A group hug would be productive here. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 01:29, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
(de-indent) Just to summarize (and place this info where it belongs), SA's complaint is meritless on substance, not to mention a flagrant example of WP:KETTLE. It's highly improbable that this from me, in response to this from OrangeMarlin, in the context of this discussion could (a) be construed as a pseudoscience violation, or (b) hurt the feelings of OrangeMarlin, of all people. It is true that I sarcastically claimed the NPOV high ground in response to his doing the same; in the scheme of misconduct that's probably about a 2 on a 10 scale, especially since we instantly de-escalated on talk, because we're grownups, not drama queens.
On the topic area, some technical detail: It's obvious from the talk page that we were having an exchange over how properly to depict the state of play in acupuncture research, which is definitely a grey area: the British Medical Ass'n issued a qualified endorsement of it; the WHO says its efficacy is proven for a whole host of conditions. The article also notes that a 2007 review led by Professor of Complementary Medicine Edzard Ernst (who is very skeptical of anything lacking the highest caliber of evidence) finds that the "emerging clinical evidence seems to imply that acupuncture is effective for some, but not all conditions." OrangeMarlin found a review questioning whether acu was effective at all, and edited the article to reflect that; I felt his edit went further to the it's-not-effective side than the sum total of our sources justify. And I haven't even mentioned the thorny issue of how to design an adequate placebo for a procedure as opposed to a pill.
So, if ScienceApologist is trying to imply that by taking anything other than an unqualified hard line against acu, I'm pushing pseudoscience, he only shows his own ignorance of the subject matter and tendency to play fast and loose when it suits him. OM and I are, then, debating how to summarize acu's efficacy. We're doing fine, thanks. ScienceApologist could have chimed in at the acu talk page, but instead he escalated straight to here. I think that speaks volumes about the lack of good faith behind his actions; he seeks only to inflame and not to enlighten. Smack him with the banstick for this and other inappropriate conduct, and show that the decision topic-banning him was for real. -- Middle 8 ( talk) 01:28, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Okay. I've looked Middle 8's edit in question, and it's appalling. For instance, here's the first sentence of Middle 8's version.
“ | Because acupuncture has been the subject of active scientific research only since the late 20th century, its effects are not well-understood by Western medicine, and its application remains controversial among Western medical researchers and clinicians. | ” |
And here's the abstract of the source he uses to support it:
“ | Even though widely used in today's clinical practice, acupuncture has remained a controversial subject. Many reviews are currently available but most lack a critical stance and some are overtly promotional. The aim of this overview is to provide a balanced, critical analysis of the existing evidence. Some of the original concepts of traditional acupuncture are not supported by good scientific evidence. Several plausible theories attempt to explain how acupuncture works but none are proved beyond doubt. The clinical effectiveness of acupuncture continues to attract controversy. Many controlled clinical trials and numerous systematic reviews of these studies have been published. Considerable problems are encountered when interpreting these data. Heterogeneity is a significant drawback of both clinical trials and systematic reviews. Some of the controversies may be resolved through the use of the new 'placebo needles' which enable researchers to adequately control for placebo effects of acupuncture. The majority of studies using such devices fails to show effects beyond a placebo response. Acupuncture has been associated with serious adverse events but most large-scale studies suggest that these are probably rare. Nonserious adverse effects occur in 7-11% of all patients. In conclusion, acupuncture remains steeped in controversy. Some findings are encouraging but others suggest that its clinical effects mainly depend on a placebo response. | ” |
Only the last clause of Middle 8's sentence is supported by the source; the rest is solely Middle 8's opinion. Meanwhile, Middle 8 deletes all evidence against acupuncture from the lead. And this is meant to be NPOV?
Crossposted to Talk:Acupuncture
Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 09:02, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
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No breeching of the sanctions has occurred. Decorum has been maintained. Kevin ( talk) 09:23, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Mooretwin was advised at 10:31, 2 March 2009 here that they breeched the WP:1RR outlined on Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/The Troubles in the section titled Final remedies for AE case which state “All articles related to The Troubles, defined as: any article that could be reasonably construed as being related to The Troubles, Irish nationalism, the Baronetcies, and British nationalism in relation to Ireland falls under 1RR. When in doubt, assume it is related.” By removing the notification here they acknowledged they read it.
The two reverts are:
with an additional revert on * 09:15, 3 March 2009
When I replaced the information here without being ask, I provided quotes from the references used here with an additional reference and added the reference here and book title here. Which now numbers six references and footnotes.
The text has been removed on a number of occasions including: [113] [114] [115] [116] [117] [118] [119] .
The relevant discussions can be found here, here and here. -- Domer48 'fenian' 12:33, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
Deacon, please show me were I’ve looked to get opponents punished? The last report I made here pacifically did not ask for any sanctions. Both Jehochman and Tznkai will both attest to the fact that I have in fact asked for Admin intervention to prevents sanctions and have done so for quite some time now. Now as to your interpretation of 1RR, please read this here. The revert restriction refers to any reversions on the same page within 24 hours - regardless of the particular content...--Tznkai (talk) 06:18, 5 February 2009 (UTC) This discussion also shows Deacon you defending Moortwin, and attacking Dunc, the exact same thing you did in this discussion here. Now please explain your comments and your consistent attacks on both myself and Dun. -- Domer48 'fenian' 14:25, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
So Deacon, Tznkai was wrong here The revert restriction refers to any reversions on the same page within 24 hours - regardless of the particular content...--Tznkai (talk) 06:18, 5 February 2009 (UTC). If Admin's who I've emailed privitaly to prevent edit-wars and sanctions wish to say so I've no problem with that. And like Dunc, I can accept Mooretwins explanation of what he did, having been blocked for the exact same thing myself. Deacon you have again created a drama, based on your unfounded accusations, strike you personal attacks and stop trying to muddy the waters. -- Domer48 'fenian' 15:28, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
Domer, Wikipedia is an online encyclopedia and, as a means to that end, an online community of people interested in building a high-quality encyclopedia in a spirit of mutual respect. Therefore, there are certain things that Wikipedia is not.: e.g. it is NOT a Battleground. Your persistent revert-warn-forum shop pattern, (as evidenced alone by the two threads in this page, targetting two different editors) is against policy as well as the spirit of good collaboration, and you are stretching patiences here (including mine). I want to see you spending more effort in relationship building and constructive dialogue than the opposite, the constant (usually unfounded) forum-shopping against ideologically opposing editors. PS, I believe you need to reread the definition of revert in WP:3RR. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk) 16:42, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
Two users User:Colonel Warden [120] [121] [122] and User:John Gohde [123] [124] are making false claims of (non)consensus and generally POV-pushing for greater coverage of orthomolecular psychiatry than what is permissable according to the work of a number of other editors [125] [126] [127] [128]. Their actions are blatantly obstructionist and petulant. User:ImperfectlyInformed is behaving in a way that can only be described as blind and mute tagteaming [129]. We need an administrator willing to start enforcing this arbitration decision. Wikipedia should not be held hostage to roving bands of credulous alternative medicine promoters who instead of discussing content Wikilawyer arguments regarding what "consensus" means and "proper process for discussion". ScienceApologist ( talk) 14:45, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
I'm not up on the details of these things, but while OMM is certainly fringe science, it is not pseudoscience under WP:PSCI -- it was founded by Linus Pauling and probably falls between questionable science and alternative scientific views. Anyway, considering that those opposing the merge (see talk:orthomolecular medicine) outnumber those supporting, an admin should probably restore the orthomolecular psychiatry page. II | ( t - c) 07:23, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
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User:Malcolm Schosha just falsely accused me using a template of engaging in 3RR [130]. The template doesn't mention in which page this alleged 3RR was engaged, but does mentions the edits of an specific user, so I must assume he refers to Antisemitic incidents during the 2008–2009 Israel–Gaza conflict.
A perusal of the edit history will show that there is no 3RR violation [131], and the fact that I have had an account in Wikipedia for almost four years, with almost 10,000 edits, shows that I am not a new editor, so templating me was not needed, specially on the part of an involved editor.
Due to this templating, I ask that an uninvolved administrator please formally inform him of the terms of the WP:ARBPIA, and that this be logged. I hope that a further understanding on the conditions in which we edit my provide this user with the opportunity to reflect and correct his treatment of other editors, and allow for a more positive collaboration and editing environment.-- Cerejota ( talk) 19:38, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
For the record, I notified User:Malcolm Schosha before It was suggested by Jehochman, and did so in my own talk page before I posted here.-- Cerejota ( talk) 04:35, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
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User:ScienceApologist, per Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Fringe science is "banned from editing any article relating to fringe science topics, broadly construed, for a period of six months. ScienceApologist is free to edit the talk pages of such articles."
Creation science is a fringe science topic. In this edit, ScienceApologist adds a space after a comma. ScienceApologist is not permitted to edit Creation science. I have reverted his edit.
Atropa belladonna has been twice protected due to fringe-science edit wars (over Homeopathy). It is, in fact, under the Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Homeopathy decision under Discretionary sanctions re:Homeopathy, which is a "fringe science topic." The article was edited by Science Apologist here, in which he Wikilinks subshrub. I have reverted his edit.
I will inform SA of this report. The fact that his edits are harmless copyediting is not relevent to the fact that his valid ban prevents him from copyediting on pages related to Fringe Science. Hipocrite ( talk) 14:25, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
I'm completely uninvolved here, but ScienceApologist, why can't you just propose the edits (even typo fixes and other innocuous stuff) on the talk page and let other editors make the edits? It's compatible with the ArbCom restriction and still allows you to improve the articles, albeit indirectly. alanyst / talk/ 16:33, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
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Can somebody step in about the ongoing edit war over at Slavic-speakers of Greek Macedonia ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), between TodorBozhinov ( talk · contribs) and PMK1 ( talk · contribs)? The two have been engaged in a rather unconstructive pissing contest about who can fill the page with more images symbolically evoking their favourite national perspective on the issue, with openly WP:POINTy edit summaries like "Well, if I can't remove POV images, I'll emphasize the undisputed Bulgarian character of the population in the past by adding old foreign maps. You aksed for it, you got it", or: "No need for extra book covers, for extra partisan photos, etc., etc. You started it, you'll face the consequences.". Not nice. Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:27, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
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Per Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Fringe science ScienceApologist is banned from editing any article relating to fringe science topics, broadly construed, for a period of six months. ScienceApologist is free to edit the talk pages of such articles.
Atropa belladonna has been twice protected due to fringe-science edit wars (over Homeopathy). It is, in fact, under the Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Homeopathy decision under Discretionary sanctions re:Homeopathy, which is a "fringe science topic."
The article was edited by Science Apologist - [132] after his ban.
I have reverted his edit and will inform him of this report. The fact that I suspect both sides would accept his comment (I think?) is not relevent to the fact that his valid ban prevents him from solving disputes on pages related to Fringe Science. Hipocrite ( talk) 22:16, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Although the key phrase is supposedly "broadly construed", I don't see how including this in "Fringe Science" is in the spirit of the arbitration ruling. The ruling is not supposed to prevent ScienceApologist making uncontroversial competent edits to articles about plants. So I don't think there's anything to be done here. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk) 22:39, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
(e/c with Ludwigs2) Regarding [134], I think that in the aftermath of the ArbCom decision ScienceApologist can be expected to do some mild venting. He won't however be blocked unless he actually acts on this. The arguments here seem too much like slippery slope, and I feel that blocking him for this edit would be proactively clarifying the arbitration ruling in a manner that is both unfair and for little gain to the encyclopedia. The ruling bans him from any article relating to fringe science topics not from performing any relating to fringe science topics (bolding mine). The ruling is very open-ended, but to secure blocks for such edits those desiring to prevent him making such edits would probably be better getting an ArbCom clarification. I do however encourage other uninvolved admins here to disagree with me if they see a need. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk) 23:24, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Since there could be some lingering confusion on the topic ban of ScienceApologist, which reads as follows, I have clarified the restriction as an ArbCom Enforcement action:
The restriction: 3.1) ScienceApologist (talk · contribs) is banned from editing any article relating to fringe science topics, broadly construed, for a period of six months. ScienceApologist is free to edit the talk pages of such articles.
Passed 8 to 3 with 1 abstention, 00:38, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
The clarification: Violations of this topic ban include making edits concerning fringe science topics, even to articles that would not be considered fringe science topics. SirFozzie ( talk) 01:02, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
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Over the last 3 days, Kendrick7 has inserted links to years in some 40 articles: The edit summaries are straightforward to the effect, except occasionally he will refer to such linking as 'supplying context or somesuch. He is plainly aware of the injunction, but relies on the defense that 'years are not dates'. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, [137], 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, [138], 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40. The linking is referred to in the complaint below, but is not formalised. I am doing this for the record. Ohconfucius ( talk) 10:57, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
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Arbcom case: The Troubles.
Manticore126 ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Editor has chosen to repeatedly edit war ( [1] [2] [3]) changing Derry to Londonderry against the consensus at WP:IMOS, despite being told of this, and receiving a Troubles warning before the last edit. O Fenian ( talk) 18:09, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
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Arbcom case: The Troubles.
Falls Orangeman ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
For over a week this editor has made the same repeated, inflammatory, point-of-view edits to Falls Road, Belfast. They were notified of the sanctions here, yet proceeded to make virtually the same edit again here. To show how biased the edit is, even Mooretwin has taken exception to the edit, which to any admins familiar with Troubles articles should be unusual, as it is not often Mooretwin, Domer48, BigDunc and myself are all in agreement. In his latest edit he has chosen not to claim that "Catholic militants" were killed in the Falls Curfew instead of the sourced "Catholic civilians", and has instead labelled them "Catholic terrorists". This is a disgusting attack on the dead, see 3 and 4 July for online confirmation those killed were civilians, not members of any paramilitary organsation. Request action to be taken against this editor please. O Fenian ( talk) 11:47, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
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Baku87 ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been blocked in the past for 48 hours under WP:ARBAA2. Under WP:ARBAA2 editors are limited to 1 revert per week, editors must maintain civility, and editors must discuss their reverts. Recently Baku87 has revert warred exceeding the 1 rv per week restriction at article Shusha and has been uncivil in the edit summaries of his reverts at the articles Stepanakert and Shusha or has not provided edit summaries.
Reverts at Shusha
Incivility or no edit summaries at articles Shusha and Stepanakert
I believe that this type of behavior does the project harm as constructive edits are reverted without discussion. Pocopocopocopoco ( talk) 01:59, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
More revert waring by Baku87
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And yet another edit warrior, reverting multiple pages at once. Just today 216.165.12.158 ( talk · contribs · WHOIS) reverted a large number of pages, mostly replacing Shusha with Shushi, Russian empire with Nagorno-Karabakh. As one can see, he reverts in tandem with User:Vacio. This should be stopped. Grand master 07:41, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
See here for previous report from last week.
Jingiby ( talk · contribs) is currently under a 6 months revert parole under WP:ARBMAC imposed by myself, which will nominally end in a few days. He has been repeatedly found to ignore those restrictions in the course of the last few weeks. He had two blocks for revert-warring in February alone. Coming fresh off his latest 1-week block, he violated the restriction again today, with this edit [28] (ignoring the rule that he needs to precede every revert with an explanation on talk followed by a waiting time to allow for discussion. Note that I am the reverted party here, so I'm "involved".) In conclusion of my last report here, User:Kevin recommended that the sanctions should be reviewed at this point, "given their lack of success so far". So, here I am again with a request for such a review.
My own suggestion is we should at least reinstate the revert limitation, with a very strict reminder that they are going to be enforced. I wouldn't necessarily plead for a full ban – this editor has his lucid moments where he can edit relatively constructively. But he's definitely the sort of guy you need to keep away from the revert button for his own good. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:29, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
I have extended the revert parole, with a warning of the consequences of a breach. Let's see how it goes this time.
Kevin (
talk) 10:12, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
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User:White_adept has openely defied all the arbitration rulings. I sincerely request somebody to look into this case.
Background:
Arbitration rulings and violations by User:White_adept
As far as I can see they look suspect. For example #Baku87 could strictly be done as a mathematical calculation as to whether user:Baku87 has exceeded revert limitations in WP:ARBAA2 which are a maximum of 1 revert per week. He has done this in two articles yet Jehochman closed that saying "This report looks meritless. The first two edits complained about appear to be helpful rather than harmful". It is irrelevant whether the first two edits appear to be helpful, if they are not reverts of vandalism then user:Baku87 has breached ARBAA2. For convenience I am copying the reverts below:
Reverts at Shusha
Reverts at file:Azerbaijan_Democratic_Republic_1918-1920_Map.jpg
Incivility or no edit summaries at articles Shusha and Stepanakert
Also, this closure appears that Jehochman closes it as it was too long. I don't see that this is a valid reason to close that request. Pocopocopocopoco ( talk) 03:08, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
(unindent)I have no problem working on other articles, if you look at my edit history that is what I have been doing and have made barely any edits to AA articles. You are wrong about my post here enabling disruption on articles, my post with regard to
user:Baku87 was an attempt to stop disruption at the articles
Stepankert and
Shusha. Your quick closure of my complaint couple followed with a topic block when I questioned your judgement causes disruption to AA articles. What is happening here:
1) You made closures on this page that I questioned
2) When I used the dispute resolution process to have another admin review the situation you gave me an topic ban.
3) When I questioned your topic ban you threatened a total ban.
This is completely inappropriate.
Pocopocopocopoco (
talk) 04:59, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
(unindent)So I take it you were not able to find any disruptive edits done by me recently in AA articles. My edits at this thread were not helpful in what way? In that thread I tried to express the fact that VartanM was reverting a source that referred to Armenians as parasites? If I see anyone getting blocked for reverting a source that refers to an ethnicity as parasites I plan to speak up. Deal with it. You did not issue a warning at that thread, you said "if you have a case state it plainly with diffs". I did this and you put a topic block on me. Let me repeat for the last time, I did not attack you. Politely requesting review of your closures is not an attack. If you consider this an attack then perhaps you need a break from the mop. Do not pressuppose that my complaint at #Baku87 was a reciprocal complaint. My only reason for filing #Baku87 was that there was disruption caused at Stepanakert and Shusha by user:Baku87 and it needed to be stopped. Pocopocopocopoco ( talk) 05:47, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
Jehochman? If your administrative decisions are correct then an uninvolved administrator would confirm their correctness. I have no history in the Armenia-Azerbaijan dispute and no knowledge of whether your decision is technically correct, but your action takes on an unpleasant appearance in the present context--even if you're right on the merits, it could easily be misread as an effort to silence criticism. Suggesting, procedurally, that you lift this topic ban and withdraw from this thread. Another administrator will confirm your actions if they are merited. (Fair disclosure: Jehochman and I do have a history; here's hoping this comment is accepted by all parties in good faith and on its merits). Durova Charge! 06:34, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
this closure was fine, as the complaint brought no new information and there was no reason to keep it open. This closure, while also fine, could have been explained more fully. Each or all sides are entitled to see arbcom remedies applied across the board fairly, without being dismissed contemptuously (because the next admin may not act like that, and thus there will be unfairness). AE admins expect each side will try to get the other in trouble, but this is one of the most critical mechanisms for helping AE admins do their job. AE admins also need the scope to say enough is enough when it is necessary and discourage constant forum shopping in order to limit it to substantial complaints; this is why Jehochman's actions are acceptable. What Jehochman should have done is point out that ARBAA2 does not restrict all users, but rather provides that administrators are allowed to place users under restriction. Baku has not yet been listed at Wikipedia:ARBAA2#List_of_users_placed_under_supervision, and so Jehochman happened to be correct in saying the report was meritless. The question of whether Baku ought to be put on restriction might have been considered too. Regarding Pocopocopocopoco's restriction, I'd encourage Jehochman however to read Wikipedia:ARBAA2#Amended_Remedies_and_Enforcement, Prior to any sanctions being imposed, the editor in question shall be given a warning with a link to this decision; and, where appropriate, should be counseled on specific steps that he or she can take to improve his or her editing in accordance with relevant policies and guidelines. I say this because I don't see Jehochman following this procedure here, but I don't say it with force. The reason for the latter is that in practice the ARBAA2 ruling isn't working out fairly because in practice it is rather random which users are under restriction and which ones aren't; i.e. I've seen that while some hyper-nationalist revert warriors are on 1rr per week others can revert 3rr per day, as normal, which is grossly grossly unfair. So on the one han d I think the good AE admin has to take previous admin interpretations more seriously than the ArbCom ruling itself (i.e. restrict users as quickly as previous administrators have restricted them, not as ARBCOM said, unless of course all previous restrictions got reviewed), but on the other hand Jehochman should understand that restricting users so callously sets up a precedent that future admins might have to follow, and so care should be exercised. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk) 11:58, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
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Vacio ( talk · contribs) has been twice placed on editing restrictions, but both times the sanctions were lifted, first time because the admin was given incorrect information that Vacio had no prior warning, [34] [35] [36] and second time after Vacio promised not to edit war. [37] [38] However he continues edit warring on a big number of articles. Today he mass reverted pages without any consensus on using the place name that he prefers. He made 9 reverts at once: [39] [40] [41] [42] [43] [44] [45] [46], replacing Russian empire with Nagorno-Karabakh, and the city name of Shusha with Shushi, despite the fact that when the city was a part of the Russian empire, it was officially called Shusha, and no such state as Nagorno-Karabakh ever existed. In addition, he made another controversial revert on Nakhchivan: [47], which is his second revert on that article during this week: [48] As one can see, an official warning, and imposition of editing restrictions twice had no effect, and the lifting of editing restrictions was a mistake. According to the ruling of the arbitration case Armenia-Azerbaijan 2, Any uninvolved administrator may, on his or her own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor working in the area of conflict if, despite being warned, that editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process. I believe it is time to place Vacio on editing restrictions once again, and this time permanently. Grand master 16:54, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
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I really have difficulty with VartanM’s block; he did not act anywhere near as bad as Parishan has. Since when should someone be blocked for reverting an obvious revert material, and given the circumstances, vandalism? Did any administrator check what the content of the revert was? This user (Parishan) has no use of other users comment to even engage in debating. The article for which he was reported shows Parishan engaging in fringe theory pushing. This is what Parishan was inserting: Azeri served as a lingua franca throughout most parts of Transcaucasia (except the Black Sea coast), in Southern Dagestan[8][9][10], Turkish Armenia, Kurdistan and Northern Persia from the sixteenth century to the early twentieth century.[11][12] It is unlikelly that Parishan could not have known that the material he was inserting was bogus. Let’s see the two sources he has used, first source: Nasledie Chingiskhana by Nikolai Trubetzkoy. Agraf, 1999; p. 478. In those pages you will also find Armenians being called: parasite and slave. Parishan’s cherry picking and twisting of sources is again at the center of the problem. See under which context it was said: However, it is far from unimportant, what languages to precisely select for this purpose. The author has a policy of instoring one language in that region. He claims Azeri being a good choice because, from his words: larger part of Transcaucasia (besides the Black Sea coast) and, furthermore, in Turkish Armenia, Kurdistan and in northern [Persia]. Parishan’s version which reads: from the sixteenth century to the early twentieth century is supposed to be sourced with this. But the work was published in 1925, and was speaking about a period when there were no Armenians left in Turkish Armenia. So how can his wording even be justifiable, how do you debate with someone who will bring you in a circular discussion about an obvious revert material? More is that the writer, while a credible linguist is not credible here for two reasons, first because the work, which support his theories about the Muscovite princes (he was one such prince) claims them to be the heirs of the Chinggisid rulers. (see here). The second reason is that it was the interest of Russian authors during his period to associate Turkish people with Azeri, because Russia was still laying claims against Turkey. But the author also says that Azeri is a Turkish language. In any case, Turkish Armenia refers to pre modern Eastern Turkey and on top of that, Parishan added a date range which was not supported by that source, adding the date range shows that he knew to what period Turkish Armenia referred too. The second source used by Parishan, J. N. Postgate. Languages of Iraq. British School of Archaeology in Iraq, 2007; ISBN 090347221X; p. 164, does not even require an address to, as it does not support his wording... worst, is that Parishan quoted of it in the talkpage, left down junk of text, replaced by three dots. Problem is that without retrieving what is in those three dots, the source which already does not support his claim, becomes totally useless. Adding insult to the injury, the author himself place the term Azerbaijani in quotation marks. We are supposed to debate with a user, who time and again misuses sources, and when revert has no problem reverting. I or any other users would have reverted Parishan, I don't see why under those circumstances VartanM should be punished for it.
More about the reverts, it's hard to accept the fact that, Brandmeister could go on to disturb articles' integrity by renaming them. He even claimed that it is per talk, when even Grandmaster admitted not having a problem with the name of the article. Brandmeister’s revert was indeed completely unacceptable. Reverting his action, should be in fact considered as vandalism. How can a user comes out of the blue and rename an article, which both side have agreed to the name of, and then the revert of this revert be used to block another user? Even the chargé d'affair of the republic of Azerbaijan, Farid Shafiyev has used that term to refer to the incident, so reasonably there should be no problem to call it that, when the very large majority of sources call it that. How in the world should any user accept Brandmeister’s actions, and leave it at that, because of a 1RR. Mind that the AA2 does not restrict only to 1RR, in fact it was amended because it had to include other forms of disruptions.
About said map of the Azerbaijani republic from 1918-20, I think the disruption going on there can not be left unanswered, I am referring to this. See from where the source comes from, it is a recently prepared map which was placed recently in the websites of the republic of Azerbaijan. Not one user has provided any sources with those frontiers. Will any good faithed user caring for accuracy vote “keep” for something which he can't substantiate? See here Grandmaster who voted keeps saying that a part which is included in that republic was independent as another republic. What's more is that that map is against the majority position. The National Georgraphic visited Armenia twice, it did draw a map of the republic of Armenia from 1918-1920, here is a copy of that map.
About Nakhichevan, the article contains the Armenian word in the lead, Grandmaster or other users did not have a problem with it for a long time, problems only started with Brandmeister’s revert, from then on, Parishan, Baku87, Grandmaster and the revert had all a problem with. Azeri, English or all foreign names derives from the Armenian word for the place. It is of course logical to include the source of that name and is even common usage. Half the article includes its history, where Nakhichevan has been in Armenia since the 6th century. VartanM argument was never addressed; he did not even receive a reply for it. How can anyone revert without even bothering to answer him, not even with an edit summary.
All those incidents happened all together, seems there is a disastrous effect on Wikipedia when Moreschi is away. In brief, if VartanM should be punished, others should too. Thank you. Fedayee ( talk) 23:30, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
Based on the fact that VartanM was blocked for reverting content in which the source of the content had referred to Armenians as 'parasite and slave' and it does look like he was baited I believe VartanM's block should be overturned. Pocopocopocopoco ( talk) 00:19, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
No he did not face 'any' arguments, in fact he was reverted without prior argumentation. Your renaming was absolutely unacceptable and you continue misleading by claiming per talk. There was no per talk, this is what Grandmaster wrote in the talk: The title can remain,..., and this was the issue which was debated, as you can see from the sources provided by Grandmaster, the article’s title was not what was debated, but rather the intro, as even his sources call it Armenian-Tatar... (and Grandmaster never attempted to deny that) You came up there and moved the article, not knowing what the conflict was all about. Here is a sample of Grandmaster's revert, which shows indeed that the problem and what was debated about was the intro and not the lead. So yes, you did indeed jump in by moving the article twice [56] by refering to the talk, when the debate was not even about the article’s title. Had Moreschi been here, you would have surely ended up with at the very least a strong warning for this. How can such a disruption be even allowed?
Here is more evidence that you did not even read Vartan, had you read the link to his reply which you totally ignored, you will see that it was even not referring to his 'other Roman' example, but rather on the use of foreign name in the lead of articles, he provided Alpenglow as example, and if you check the article Rome, you will see the Latin origin of the word. You did not even bother reading what he was providing, in fact, you just reverted him. This makes Vartan’s revert justified in the talkpage, yours not, but he ended up being the editor who was blocked.
And your claim that there is no baiting campaign falls short, if we check the recent contributions by some users, we see that is what happened. Baki66, for instance. Baki66 reverts VartanM in Nakhichevan article, removing the Armenian term, without ever having written a word in the talkpage, Vartan was even not worthy of a comment in the edit summary. After doing this, he will be adding the Azeri term on Kars article, he will reinsert the disputed map, then revert Zlerman, then go on with a series of reverts [57], [58], [59], [60], [61], [62], [63], [64]. Finishing it all this and this.
Vartan’s block was not fair, and is the result of ignorance, from an administrator who did not bother viewing and checking what was happening. See here for instance, when reports become a little too much complex, we are even not worthy of being answered, or our request given consideration. Only when it is about 1RR or incivility can we get any reply. Vartan discussed and justified, he was reverted by members who did not even bother justifying. In Parishan's case, he was punished for reverting a fringe theory, something which Parishan has been pushing on several articles for years. It's not that this was never documented, it was. - Fedayee ( talk) 03:51, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
The empty room is full of people who care. :) Meowy 23:59, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
Someone oughta take a look at this user. Over a dozen reverts today. Some sort of a revert warrior that just popped up of nowhere sans any useful contributions, ever.-- Ευπάτωρ Talk!! 18:32, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
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I advised Colin4C on their talk page that the article was subject to AE sanctions here and outlined what areas were covered by the sanctions which they chose to ignore. I removed the chronology here and went to the talk page to state why here although they knew this from previous discussions as can be seen here in addition to here. I also pointed out that they removed the link to the article created by Rockpocket here and ignored the advice of both Angusmclellan which was offered here and by Rockpocket here.
Colin4C then made their first revert here and their second revert here both within a 24hr period.
The article already has an article on the chronological summary and is linked to article, which resulted from a discussion here, with advice offered here. It was acted upon here by Rockpocket, who answered questions on it here during a discussion on it here.
What I’d like to see happen is Colin4C self revert, that Admin’s tell Colin4C that the article does fall under the AE sanctions and they breeched them, and that if they want to add a Chronology they get consensus on the article talk page. -- Domer48 'fenian' 12:29, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
Per AE Sanctions: All articles related to The Troubles, defined as: any article that could be reasonably construed as being related to The Troubles, Irish nationalism, the Baronetcies, and British nationalism in relation to Ireland falls under WP:1RR. When in doubt, assume it is related. I think that is pretty clear User talk:Black Kite don't you? As to "sounds a little too much like gaming the system" is a matter of opinion, does not change the fact that the sanctions were breeched. Or is this just more of the double standerds we've come to expect. Now do me a favour, tell me what sanctions I asked for here? Oh that's right, none. I think I'm being reasonable don't you? -- Domer48 'fenian' 13:14, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
I find it difficult to view this post positively given that the reporter, Domer, has reverted twice too, and unlike ( AGF) the reportee, is well experienced with ([dare I say] gaming) the rules and knows that All articles related to The Troubles, defined as: any article that could be reasonably construed as being related to The Troubles, Irish nationalism, the Baronetcies, and British nationalism in relation to Ireland falls under 1RR. When in doubt, assume it is related. Moreover, Domer48, unlike Colin, has previously been placed already been placed on "indefinite" probation here, and got this removed after a being conditionally released from a later indefinite block. See also his record on Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/The_Great_Hunger#Enforcement_2. Admining by the book, this is a 72 hour to 1 week block for Domer (if we discount the extra hour), and 12—24 hours for Colin. I'd suggest talking to each other in good faith is something both parties might want to give a wee try for a change. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk) 13:19, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for that User talk:Black Kite for striking you comments above it’s very much appreciated. Now Deacon of Pndapetzim the facts are that I did not breech the 1RR! That's it! Anything else is a matter of opinion. Now that’s going by the book. There is however the other book, the arbitrary powers book which has nothing to do with policies and which you are now citing from. No point asking for cites from it, since it’s made up as we go along. What happened to that indef probation on me? Oh ye it was thrown out for the joke that it was. And the Famine ArbCom, oh ye the other editor was banned as a sock abusing editor. Why not mention the block for 3RR on me were the blocking Admin lost their tools, and I only reverted twice on that occasion. We could mention the block for calling an editor a liar, along with countless diff’s to support it, the problem is it’s not against the rules to call someone a liar when we apply the double standard [76] [77] . So the question I have is, is the Famine covered by AE Sanctions. Deacon of Pndapetzim letting an editor know about the sanctions before they breech them is not game an editor, want to strike the comments like User talk:Black Kite or stick with the accusation. -- Domer48 'fenian' 13:43, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
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Apologies for taking up your time with such a minor thing, but in the upcoming Judea/Samaria terminology ArbCom case, I'm worried the limited topic ban Elonka placed on me will be used again to cast undue doubt on my conduct. Upon finding it had been placed erroneously, Elonka promised to lift or at least reduce it after one week [78], then forgot about it and went on a Wikibreak. In her absence, I have been advised by PhilKnight to take the appeal here.
Details: On 15 February 2009, Elonka wrote:
MeteorMaker, you have been cautioned before about removing citations to reliable sources. Since you have started up again, I am going to make this formal: You are banned from
- Making Samaria-related reverts to any article in the Israel/Palestine topic area
- Removing reliable citations from any article in the topic area.
This ban is in place for 90 days. [79]
Upon finding that I had in fact not removed any sources, the reason for the ban was changed:
MeteorMaker,
you have been cautioned before about removing citations to reliable sources. Since you have started up again, I am going to make this formal:based on the recent pattern of reverts, and working your way through several Israel-Palestine articles and making Samaria-related reverts, I am therefore instituting a formal ban [80]
I had not been cautioned about making Samaria-related reverts before the ban, and the number of Samaria-related reverts I had made in the preceding week was exactly two — hardly enough to discern a "pattern" [81]. Both were in order to fix problems with claims that were either unsourced [82] or sourced exclusively with highly partisan refs [83]. Elonka confirms I had not done what I was originally banned for:
You are correct about the citation thing. I saw the edit summary, and that citations had been removed, but missed the part about you moving the citations to a different part of the article. I am amending my statement accordingly, and apologize for my error.
Elonka continues:
Regardless of the citation issue though, I am still concerned by the recent history that you've been showing of working your way through multiple articles and removing the "Samaria" term. This is provocative behavior, especially when done rapid-fire through multiple articles in a topic area that's already very difficult to keep stable. In some cases, I see that your change has already been reverted. It's good that you did not re-revert, but it's also a concern that these controversial changes were being made, without any attempt at discussion on the related talkpages.
I had not been cautioned that substituting universally accepted, neutral terminology ("West Bank") for minority partisan terminology ("Samaria"/"Judea") constitutes "controversial changes" and "provocative behavior" that may result in a ban. The "without any attempt at discussion" charge is not entirely applicable, as this topic is among the most well-discussed and well-sourced in the I/P field, and I've generally put a link in the edit summaries to a special page with a summary of this multi-talkpage discussion and the sources it has generated. [84], rather than repeating the same arguments over and over. Other editors have also stated that this discussion is best kept centralized; currently, most of the relevant terminology debate has taken place on TALK:Israeli_settlement and its archive pages.
Elonka concludes:
In terms of the ban, I'm open to reducing it, but let's see how things go for a week, and then we can re-examine the situation and see about reducing (or even lifting) the ban.
One week later, she announced she's taking a wikibreak, and I cannot reach her. Given that she has stated that she intended to shorten/lift the band, and that the ban was based on extremely loose ground in the first place, I hereby appeal to have it lifted. MeteorMaker ( talk) 10:46, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
I noticed Dabomb87 had mass-delinked dates in four articles recently, in contravention of the injunction in the date delinking case. I've returned them to their prior state where I could (three of four) and left him a note asking him to refrain from doing so again before the injunction is listed. I don't think it requires any action, but felt it should be noted here. — Hex (❝?!❞) 06:41, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
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2009 Hamas reprisal attacks has been named so after consensus discussion in the talk page.
User:Yamanam started to change the name unilaterally:
Began here: [85], ended here [86].
His talk page comment, when questioned at first: [87]. It is patently obvious to anyone that 2009 Hamas reprisal attacks is a much more neutral, balanced and encyclopedic title than the current one, which as pointed out by another user, is mangled english to boot.
I attempted revert to the original name, but a bot had fixed the double-redirect, so move-over-redirect is not possible. It requires admin intervention.
Besides immediate return of the article to the original title, I leave it to admins as to how to address the behavior.
But I must say that in the entire time I have edited WP:ARBPIA articles I have not seen a more crass example of POV pushing and provocative, destructive behavior. This is why I am takign it straight to AE. I cannot assume good faith in these circumstances, so I ask for uninvolved admin intervention.-- Cerejota ( talk) 13:17, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
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Despite already having received a block for violating the current injunction in the date delinking arbitration ( AE report, block notification), Ohconfucius is once again engaging in a program of removing date links from articles en masse as part of edits. Examples:
[88] [89] [90] [91] [92] [93] [94] [95] [96] [97] [98] [99] [100] [101] [102] [103] [104] [105] [106] [107] [108]
— Hex (❝?!❞) 03:28, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
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For heaven's sake.... (fill the rest in yourselves) Kevin ( talk) 01:45, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
I have warned this user for this edit which is technically a violation of his (ill-thought out, rediculous) topic ban. Hipocrite ( talk) 01:12, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Before SA made his spelling correction, however, User:Abd invoked his name, in direct violation of the "Baiting" principle. In this edit, made before SA had violated his ban, Abd wrote "Have you read Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Fringe science? Might be worth the time. Read it carefully, and note the result for ScienceApologist." Science Apologist had not edited Cold Fusion or it's talk page since December of 2008 Why would Abd bring up Science Apologist on a page Science Apologist had not edited for over two months if not to join in the "persistent low-level attacks and other continuous goading of specific editors in order to exhaust their patience and induce them to lash out in an uncivil manner."
User:Abd had been warned for similar conduct - most recently by User:Stephan Schulz at 07:54, 4 March 2009. Hipocrite ( talk) 01:12, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
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This edit is extremely problematic. The user in question is including numerous blatant mischaracterizations of sources, cherry-picking only General Ripper-esque conspircy theory sources, and conforming the article to a coatrack status in stark defiance to the warnings imposed upon him directly through this very board not two days ago [109], [110]. Per this arbitration decision I ask that this user be explicitly warned about his promotion of water fluoridation paranoia rhetoric and perhaps even given a break from editing such articles.
ScienceApologist ( talk) 15:21, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
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User:ScienceApologist is evidently testing the limits of Requests for arbitration/Fringe science, where he was topic-banned for a variety of infractions, including:
Obviously, ScienceApologist has not (in practice) learned much, since he has continued with two more examples in the above vein:
Using someone's affiliations as a means of dismissing or discrediting their views—regardless of whether said affiliations are mainstream. Note that although pointing out an editor's relevant conflict of interest is not considered a personal attack, speculating on the real life identity of another editor may constitute outing, which is a serious offense.
The substance of both of SA's actions above (against II and myself) can legitimately be dismissed under WP:SNOW. Still, these are flagrant violations of WP:GAME and WP:HARASSMENT (and, let's be real, WP:DICK) for sure; exactly the sort of thing those ArbCom findings above identified as problematic.
Personally, I'm significantly more annoyed and discouraged about editing than I was before this happened, which I'm sure is the result SA intended (plus, some people actually enjoy poking others with sharp sticks).
I think that the relevant ArbCom case sent a clear message to SA -- that you can improve content without being a dick -- which he is now trying to test the limits of. The question of whether SA can't or won't change his behavior is somewhat interesting, but in any case the remedy is clear. Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Fringe_science#Editors_warned says:
Please, sanction him swiftly and surely, and help put an end to this corrosive anti-collegiality that is (as the case noted) driving away good editors and having a bad effect on the project.
Finally, in the interest of avoiding duplication and the appearance of forum-shopping, I'm raising the above issues here only. My complaint about the WP:OUTING attempt is real, and is included in the above. best regards, Middle 8 ( talk) 00:06, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
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This edit is extremely problematic. The user in question User:Middle 8 is adopting a combative and derisive tone and claims the mantle of NPOV problematically while supporting the sympathetic POV towards acupuncture. I happen to know that this user gets paid to perform acupuncture (evidence can be had privately so as to avoid outing concerns). Per this arbitration decision I as that this user be warned against this kind of behavior. ScienceApologist ( talk) 20:20, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
←OK, since my name is being bandied about here, I'm going to comment. First, I didn't like the tone of the edit summary. Now, all who know me would assume that I'd have verbally clobbered Middle 8 under normal circumstances. My not doing so was not an oversight on my part. Although I do not agree with Middle 8's edits, I have found that in his previous incarnation, he was semi-reasonable. I was willing to overlook his edit summary with a little banter, and did respond to him on the discussion page to see if we could work out a compromise. This doesn't mean I accept Middle 8's view of things, hardly. It's more like I'm willing to massage verbiage a bit. So, everyone needs to lighten up a tad. Yes, I thought the edit summary was over the top, considering Middle 8 and I have had a collegial relationship. Yes SA should have come to my defense (but probably not here), since he did not know about our banter. I know that Middle 8 has a vested interested in acupuncture, so he has to overlook his personal bias to keep the NPOV on the article. We had a Chiropractic editor who was not a very compromising editor, and I gave him crap all the time. I know where SA is coming from, and I know where Middle 8 is coming from. A group hug would be productive here. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 01:29, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
(de-indent) Just to summarize (and place this info where it belongs), SA's complaint is meritless on substance, not to mention a flagrant example of WP:KETTLE. It's highly improbable that this from me, in response to this from OrangeMarlin, in the context of this discussion could (a) be construed as a pseudoscience violation, or (b) hurt the feelings of OrangeMarlin, of all people. It is true that I sarcastically claimed the NPOV high ground in response to his doing the same; in the scheme of misconduct that's probably about a 2 on a 10 scale, especially since we instantly de-escalated on talk, because we're grownups, not drama queens.
On the topic area, some technical detail: It's obvious from the talk page that we were having an exchange over how properly to depict the state of play in acupuncture research, which is definitely a grey area: the British Medical Ass'n issued a qualified endorsement of it; the WHO says its efficacy is proven for a whole host of conditions. The article also notes that a 2007 review led by Professor of Complementary Medicine Edzard Ernst (who is very skeptical of anything lacking the highest caliber of evidence) finds that the "emerging clinical evidence seems to imply that acupuncture is effective for some, but not all conditions." OrangeMarlin found a review questioning whether acu was effective at all, and edited the article to reflect that; I felt his edit went further to the it's-not-effective side than the sum total of our sources justify. And I haven't even mentioned the thorny issue of how to design an adequate placebo for a procedure as opposed to a pill.
So, if ScienceApologist is trying to imply that by taking anything other than an unqualified hard line against acu, I'm pushing pseudoscience, he only shows his own ignorance of the subject matter and tendency to play fast and loose when it suits him. OM and I are, then, debating how to summarize acu's efficacy. We're doing fine, thanks. ScienceApologist could have chimed in at the acu talk page, but instead he escalated straight to here. I think that speaks volumes about the lack of good faith behind his actions; he seeks only to inflame and not to enlighten. Smack him with the banstick for this and other inappropriate conduct, and show that the decision topic-banning him was for real. -- Middle 8 ( talk) 01:28, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Okay. I've looked Middle 8's edit in question, and it's appalling. For instance, here's the first sentence of Middle 8's version.
“ | Because acupuncture has been the subject of active scientific research only since the late 20th century, its effects are not well-understood by Western medicine, and its application remains controversial among Western medical researchers and clinicians. | ” |
And here's the abstract of the source he uses to support it:
“ | Even though widely used in today's clinical practice, acupuncture has remained a controversial subject. Many reviews are currently available but most lack a critical stance and some are overtly promotional. The aim of this overview is to provide a balanced, critical analysis of the existing evidence. Some of the original concepts of traditional acupuncture are not supported by good scientific evidence. Several plausible theories attempt to explain how acupuncture works but none are proved beyond doubt. The clinical effectiveness of acupuncture continues to attract controversy. Many controlled clinical trials and numerous systematic reviews of these studies have been published. Considerable problems are encountered when interpreting these data. Heterogeneity is a significant drawback of both clinical trials and systematic reviews. Some of the controversies may be resolved through the use of the new 'placebo needles' which enable researchers to adequately control for placebo effects of acupuncture. The majority of studies using such devices fails to show effects beyond a placebo response. Acupuncture has been associated with serious adverse events but most large-scale studies suggest that these are probably rare. Nonserious adverse effects occur in 7-11% of all patients. In conclusion, acupuncture remains steeped in controversy. Some findings are encouraging but others suggest that its clinical effects mainly depend on a placebo response. | ” |
Only the last clause of Middle 8's sentence is supported by the source; the rest is solely Middle 8's opinion. Meanwhile, Middle 8 deletes all evidence against acupuncture from the lead. And this is meant to be NPOV?
Crossposted to Talk:Acupuncture
Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 09:02, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
No breeching of the sanctions has occurred. Decorum has been maintained. Kevin ( talk) 09:23, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Mooretwin was advised at 10:31, 2 March 2009 here that they breeched the WP:1RR outlined on Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/The Troubles in the section titled Final remedies for AE case which state “All articles related to The Troubles, defined as: any article that could be reasonably construed as being related to The Troubles, Irish nationalism, the Baronetcies, and British nationalism in relation to Ireland falls under 1RR. When in doubt, assume it is related.” By removing the notification here they acknowledged they read it.
The two reverts are:
with an additional revert on * 09:15, 3 March 2009
When I replaced the information here without being ask, I provided quotes from the references used here with an additional reference and added the reference here and book title here. Which now numbers six references and footnotes.
The text has been removed on a number of occasions including: [113] [114] [115] [116] [117] [118] [119] .
The relevant discussions can be found here, here and here. -- Domer48 'fenian' 12:33, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
Deacon, please show me were I’ve looked to get opponents punished? The last report I made here pacifically did not ask for any sanctions. Both Jehochman and Tznkai will both attest to the fact that I have in fact asked for Admin intervention to prevents sanctions and have done so for quite some time now. Now as to your interpretation of 1RR, please read this here. The revert restriction refers to any reversions on the same page within 24 hours - regardless of the particular content...--Tznkai (talk) 06:18, 5 February 2009 (UTC) This discussion also shows Deacon you defending Moortwin, and attacking Dunc, the exact same thing you did in this discussion here. Now please explain your comments and your consistent attacks on both myself and Dun. -- Domer48 'fenian' 14:25, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
So Deacon, Tznkai was wrong here The revert restriction refers to any reversions on the same page within 24 hours - regardless of the particular content...--Tznkai (talk) 06:18, 5 February 2009 (UTC). If Admin's who I've emailed privitaly to prevent edit-wars and sanctions wish to say so I've no problem with that. And like Dunc, I can accept Mooretwins explanation of what he did, having been blocked for the exact same thing myself. Deacon you have again created a drama, based on your unfounded accusations, strike you personal attacks and stop trying to muddy the waters. -- Domer48 'fenian' 15:28, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
Domer, Wikipedia is an online encyclopedia and, as a means to that end, an online community of people interested in building a high-quality encyclopedia in a spirit of mutual respect. Therefore, there are certain things that Wikipedia is not.: e.g. it is NOT a Battleground. Your persistent revert-warn-forum shop pattern, (as evidenced alone by the two threads in this page, targetting two different editors) is against policy as well as the spirit of good collaboration, and you are stretching patiences here (including mine). I want to see you spending more effort in relationship building and constructive dialogue than the opposite, the constant (usually unfounded) forum-shopping against ideologically opposing editors. PS, I believe you need to reread the definition of revert in WP:3RR. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk) 16:42, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
Two users User:Colonel Warden [120] [121] [122] and User:John Gohde [123] [124] are making false claims of (non)consensus and generally POV-pushing for greater coverage of orthomolecular psychiatry than what is permissable according to the work of a number of other editors [125] [126] [127] [128]. Their actions are blatantly obstructionist and petulant. User:ImperfectlyInformed is behaving in a way that can only be described as blind and mute tagteaming [129]. We need an administrator willing to start enforcing this arbitration decision. Wikipedia should not be held hostage to roving bands of credulous alternative medicine promoters who instead of discussing content Wikilawyer arguments regarding what "consensus" means and "proper process for discussion". ScienceApologist ( talk) 14:45, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
I'm not up on the details of these things, but while OMM is certainly fringe science, it is not pseudoscience under WP:PSCI -- it was founded by Linus Pauling and probably falls between questionable science and alternative scientific views. Anyway, considering that those opposing the merge (see talk:orthomolecular medicine) outnumber those supporting, an admin should probably restore the orthomolecular psychiatry page. II | ( t - c) 07:23, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User:Malcolm Schosha just falsely accused me using a template of engaging in 3RR [130]. The template doesn't mention in which page this alleged 3RR was engaged, but does mentions the edits of an specific user, so I must assume he refers to Antisemitic incidents during the 2008–2009 Israel–Gaza conflict.
A perusal of the edit history will show that there is no 3RR violation [131], and the fact that I have had an account in Wikipedia for almost four years, with almost 10,000 edits, shows that I am not a new editor, so templating me was not needed, specially on the part of an involved editor.
Due to this templating, I ask that an uninvolved administrator please formally inform him of the terms of the WP:ARBPIA, and that this be logged. I hope that a further understanding on the conditions in which we edit my provide this user with the opportunity to reflect and correct his treatment of other editors, and allow for a more positive collaboration and editing environment.-- Cerejota ( talk) 19:38, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
For the record, I notified User:Malcolm Schosha before It was suggested by Jehochman, and did so in my own talk page before I posted here.-- Cerejota ( talk) 04:35, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User:ScienceApologist, per Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Fringe science is "banned from editing any article relating to fringe science topics, broadly construed, for a period of six months. ScienceApologist is free to edit the talk pages of such articles."
Creation science is a fringe science topic. In this edit, ScienceApologist adds a space after a comma. ScienceApologist is not permitted to edit Creation science. I have reverted his edit.
Atropa belladonna has been twice protected due to fringe-science edit wars (over Homeopathy). It is, in fact, under the Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Homeopathy decision under Discretionary sanctions re:Homeopathy, which is a "fringe science topic." The article was edited by Science Apologist here, in which he Wikilinks subshrub. I have reverted his edit.
I will inform SA of this report. The fact that his edits are harmless copyediting is not relevent to the fact that his valid ban prevents him from copyediting on pages related to Fringe Science. Hipocrite ( talk) 14:25, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
I'm completely uninvolved here, but ScienceApologist, why can't you just propose the edits (even typo fixes and other innocuous stuff) on the talk page and let other editors make the edits? It's compatible with the ArbCom restriction and still allows you to improve the articles, albeit indirectly. alanyst / talk/ 16:33, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
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Can somebody step in about the ongoing edit war over at Slavic-speakers of Greek Macedonia ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), between TodorBozhinov ( talk · contribs) and PMK1 ( talk · contribs)? The two have been engaged in a rather unconstructive pissing contest about who can fill the page with more images symbolically evoking their favourite national perspective on the issue, with openly WP:POINTy edit summaries like "Well, if I can't remove POV images, I'll emphasize the undisputed Bulgarian character of the population in the past by adding old foreign maps. You aksed for it, you got it", or: "No need for extra book covers, for extra partisan photos, etc., etc. You started it, you'll face the consequences.". Not nice. Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:27, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Per Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Fringe science ScienceApologist is banned from editing any article relating to fringe science topics, broadly construed, for a period of six months. ScienceApologist is free to edit the talk pages of such articles.
Atropa belladonna has been twice protected due to fringe-science edit wars (over Homeopathy). It is, in fact, under the Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Homeopathy decision under Discretionary sanctions re:Homeopathy, which is a "fringe science topic."
The article was edited by Science Apologist - [132] after his ban.
I have reverted his edit and will inform him of this report. The fact that I suspect both sides would accept his comment (I think?) is not relevent to the fact that his valid ban prevents him from solving disputes on pages related to Fringe Science. Hipocrite ( talk) 22:16, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Although the key phrase is supposedly "broadly construed", I don't see how including this in "Fringe Science" is in the spirit of the arbitration ruling. The ruling is not supposed to prevent ScienceApologist making uncontroversial competent edits to articles about plants. So I don't think there's anything to be done here. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk) 22:39, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
(e/c with Ludwigs2) Regarding [134], I think that in the aftermath of the ArbCom decision ScienceApologist can be expected to do some mild venting. He won't however be blocked unless he actually acts on this. The arguments here seem too much like slippery slope, and I feel that blocking him for this edit would be proactively clarifying the arbitration ruling in a manner that is both unfair and for little gain to the encyclopedia. The ruling bans him from any article relating to fringe science topics not from performing any relating to fringe science topics (bolding mine). The ruling is very open-ended, but to secure blocks for such edits those desiring to prevent him making such edits would probably be better getting an ArbCom clarification. I do however encourage other uninvolved admins here to disagree with me if they see a need. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk) 23:24, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Since there could be some lingering confusion on the topic ban of ScienceApologist, which reads as follows, I have clarified the restriction as an ArbCom Enforcement action:
The restriction: 3.1) ScienceApologist (talk · contribs) is banned from editing any article relating to fringe science topics, broadly construed, for a period of six months. ScienceApologist is free to edit the talk pages of such articles.
Passed 8 to 3 with 1 abstention, 00:38, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
The clarification: Violations of this topic ban include making edits concerning fringe science topics, even to articles that would not be considered fringe science topics. SirFozzie ( talk) 01:02, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Over the last 3 days, Kendrick7 has inserted links to years in some 40 articles: The edit summaries are straightforward to the effect, except occasionally he will refer to such linking as 'supplying context or somesuch. He is plainly aware of the injunction, but relies on the defense that 'years are not dates'. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, [137], 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, [138], 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40. The linking is referred to in the complaint below, but is not formalised. I am doing this for the record. Ohconfucius ( talk) 10:57, 8 March 2009 (UTC)