Anthere and I have gotten into a conflict recently, in which she has indicated that she is considering leaving Wikipedia. (If I'm reading her comments incorrectly, I apologize.) I have also, because of our spat, considered leaving Wikipedia, at least for a time. We've tried communicating the issue to each other, but it hasn't gone well. (See our talk pages [1] [2], [3], and [4]. Also related: [5] and [6]) I'm very distressed about this conflict, and I think an independent mediator might help us to work this out. I haven't gone through the RFC process because it doesn't really apply in this case; I'm not complaining about Anthere, I'm just looking for some help in resolving the situation. – Quadell ( talk) ( sleuth) 19:50, Mar 7, 2005 (UTC)
The matter was resolved amicably without mediation. Request withdrawn. – Quadell ( talk) ( sleuth) 13:56, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC)
Coolcat continuously edit the Armenian Genocide entry with false informations, when he obviously has no knowledge of the subject. He police that entry like he police everything that can have anything to do with Turkey. That's entirely anti-academic. He claims that my articles are POV and “Armenian Propaganda,” while there has been 200 pages of discussion at the talk page, 160 pages coming from me, Coolcat has not participated in them, and won't read them, and would prefer editing and editing the genocide entry. If before editing he were to discuss each points, like I have done so(and he doesn't even read here), I would have discussed the matter and even admit if there is POV in some points. I do participate in this discussion because I know of what I am talking about, he obviously don't, he justified his position by claiming that I am unjustifiably attacking a nation... he has shown by his edits to have no clue of what he is talking about.
He brag the neutral point of view, but I have read all those rules myself, and it is clearly stipulated that two positions don't need to be presented equally if the majority in the Academic world support one against the other... but Coolcat want the Turkish position to be presented equally as the rest of the World. I have visited the Holocaust entry, and I have clearly seen that more place is left(a lot more) to the position of the majority of the Academia, I don't see why it should be different for the Armenian Genocide. It is true that Turkey deny it, but it is as well true that most in Islamic countries deny the Holocaust, according to him, both revisionist and official versions should be presented equally. I don't see how it is neutral to fool the reader into believing that two positions are supported equally, when it just isn't the cases at all. I request from Coolcat to present a list of works he has read about the issue, because his edits clearly exposes from his part or a strong biases or a total ignorance of the subject at hand. Fadix 17:10, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Comments. This is at bottom a content dispute involving several different parties and not simply a dispute regarding behaviour between Coolcat and Fadix. Moreover, even if it could be approached as a set of behavioural issues, it isn't clear to me that Fadix has selected the approporiate counter-parties, There are a number of other editors involved in the disputes concerning it on both sides of the basic issues, who probably would not feel bound by any compromise that was reached between Coolcat and Fadix. I will add also that I have my doubts as to whether Fadix approaches this mediation with the proper mental attitude. I sense that he seeks some Wikipedia authority who will declare his point of view regarding the article to be "correct", so as to silence the opposition, rather than seeking assistance from a mediator in securing a compromise between the various points of view concerning the subject. -- BM 18:07, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I don't think Torque has permanently resigned from the article. He sent a message about it to me and Mgm only yesterday. Mgm, Everyking, and to some degree, I have all tried to mediate unofficially in this dispute, but what Fadix is looking for from the "moderator" that he keeps appealing for is someone who will agree with him. The issue in this dispute is the degree to which NPOV requires the presentation of all points of view. Fadix argues that the Turkish view is simply "denial" or "revisionism" and can be relegated to a couple of paragraphs at the end of the article in the way that Holocaust denial/revisionism is treated in Holocaust. He even objects to his view being characterized as the "Armenian" view. For him, there is the truth, as concluded by the "majority" of Western scholars, and the Turkish view, which is denial. Others argue that whatever the merits of the arguments, the Turkish view is significant enough that the NPOV policy requires neutrality between it and the other views. I don't know whose point of view is correct, and have no personal axes to grind on the matter, but I am not prepared to treat the "Turkish" view as kooky holocaust denial that is ineligible for NPOV treatment in the Wikipedia. Regarding who the parties to a mediation should be, Torque has probably just decided that it is futile to argue with Fadix. If there is going to be a mediation, Torque should also be involved. -- BM 18:57, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Fadix, let me clarify a few things that I worry are getting lost here. Mediation will not enforce any decision on anyone you feel is misbehaving, unless the two of you can work it out. You need to explain what you hope to agree to with Coolcat--this will require both of you to compromise, at least a little. Please make sure you have notified Coolcat of your mediation request on his talk page, and then come here and write a brief description of what you realistically hope to agree to with Coolcat. Please also offer any mediator's names (see WP:MC) who you would prefer, but remember that the mediator is there to help you two work things out on your own, not to take either side. Thanks, Jwrosenzweig 23:00, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I don't want any messages saying this subject is controversial, Coolcat insist that there should be a note that say just that. Controversial imply that specialists in the field(Holocaust and genocide study) are divided about the subject, when it is not the cases at all.
I expect more place to be left for the view supported by most Academics, Coolcat want the cases presented as 50%-50% claiming that is what is neutral. I oppose, and claim that being neutral doesn't mean to mislead the reader into believing that both versions are equally represented in the Academic world, when it is obviously not.
I have by myself made many concessions, and will be making others, just recently I have made a new proposition. Dividing each positions and explaining them. First, what most Western scholars more or less say about it, then, what the Turkish government say about, what the international community say about, then present the Military court of 1919, the Permanent People Tribunal in 1984... the UN convention and a historic of the Armenian cases in the UN etc. Just by representing this, I am showing why, both cases can not be presented 50-50... because one side version revolve around: “They backstabbed us and they were relocated because they were dangerous.” We can not extend that statement indefinitely as to equal it with the rest... because if we do that, we will end up giving less space to the official Western version which would be unfair. It isn't my fault that the cases of genocide is recognized by most in the Academia, it isn't my fault that it is recognized by international bodies... why should I then have less space to present the theses of genocide... when not only shall I present in this 50% space, the theses of genocide, but as well, the international bodies decision, the Turkish human right organization, the Military tribunal, the Permanent People tribunal, the recognition by various countries... how much space is left to represent the Armenian genocide theses?
That is why, I am saying that we can not present 50-50, because we will mislead the reader... Neutral Point of view doesn't require that each sides be given as much space, when one side in the Academic world represent a minority... Neutral point of view doesn't mean to mislead the reader to believe just that.
I have read many Wikipedia entry, and I have seen many cases that are called an example of success of community work, which would be considered as no neutral when using the same standard as the one used to judge my Armenian genocide entry. And I am ready here to present cases and show how... and this including entries in which Coolcat has participated, when it is pro-turkey, he doesn't care of neutrality, but when it doesn't favor Turkey, he will jump in the discussion. That is unfair, Wikipedia should not be constructed on national biases, it should be constructed on knowledge and accurate representation of events. And I do support Neutral, but this neutral representation should not mean to represent two sides equally, when they are not supported equally... one has just to research the issue to see it's true, and even those not supporting my theses if they are unbiased would recognize both side are not represented equally in the academia.
I would like to make another point, since I saw that Torque has started his war of character assassination in another board for what has happened here by posting racist materials... and I think part of this problem is Wikipedia, Torque has received no warning what so ever for his racism in this site, and I have found myself being viewed as the offensive party, and I think it started with when Coolcat has left a message to BM, and I believe BM judged me and took Coolcat position, because he's a veteran and I am a newbie. Another thing I believe, I think there should some conditions to participate in complex articles, I find it hard to accept, when people that do not know a subject sabotate an article because of national biases. If they do not find it neutral, they could ask to people that know about it. Had Coolcat asked me to make few changes, I would have accepted. Fadix 17:15, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)
It is your claim without basis that MOST academics acknowlege the genocide, in reality its disputed. The article is required to be presented so that the user can read it with an open mind. Baseless statistics of "scholars believe this" is not wikipedia way. Even if the statistics regarding all scholars is acurate this is NOT lead material. Also on multiple articles, fadix has made edits aproaching The genocide as a solid fact most noteworthy Genocides in history. Also he talked people arguing with him to death by posting pages worth of data, that is ok as he was a newbie. Dont bite newbies I know, but newbies are not supposed to bite oldies either.
He was claiming that I have a hidden agenda, he was constantly acusing me of things. While I was merely presenting material that countered his views hence his views were not as neutral as he claimed. I am not happy with the current mediator. Article is not a simple historic dispute but a Diplomatic dispute with mass amount of propoganda. Claims like "Turkey gassed childeren" (paraphrasing) is definately not neutral. Any addition subtraction I make is immidiately reverted. Anything I said is ignored. Providing 200,000 dead instead of 800,000 (min) bothers fadix while 200,000 is official Turkish claim of the # of dead. He is saying its POV. Cat chi? 05:36, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
He believes that the death of Armanians were deliberate goverment organised Genocide, while another explanation is famine or disease and other stuff. There are two views. He is declaring the oposing view POV and his view fact. Cat chi? 06:45, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
It takes some face for someone saying that he does not believe the Holocaust happened to come here and say I am not neutral. I repeat, that MOST Western academicians recognize the event as a genocide is a fact, I proposed you to research libraries to see that this is obviously true. Wikipedia is clear about neutrality and you can do nothing about it. And where did I claim “Turkey” gassed children? I referred to records used during the martial court... And as well the article does not make a direct statement about it but rather propose it as a claim.
And it is surprising that Coolcat has nothing to say with Torque posting load of materials and when I answer he criticize me of posting and posting... and more amazingly he even asked torque to do so by asking him to research “POV” in what I write. I can't say that I am really unhappy about it, because Torque has just posted more fabricated materials showing how he rely on dubious materials and how he can't be trusted upon. Right now, I will take a brake from answering him, but will answer all of his posts, because I do believe Wikiepdia is not the place for genocide deniers that under the banner of neutrality try to impose their minority view as equal as what most specialists have established.
And yes! You have a hidden agenda, and no 200,000 Armenian deaths can not be presented as credible figure, when the official Ottoman figures were of 800,000 killed. The 200,000 is even lower than Talaat sarcastic disgusting joke of “300,000” similar to those made by Hitler about tens of thousands of Jews at most having perished making fun of countless numbers of victims.
The actual mediator is doing a good job, and all was going well until you disturbed the peace by waking up Torque, when both Torque and you knows that you have no position to defend against me so now you go on crying telling how non-neutral all this was. Had you need disturbed the peace, today I would have worked on neutralizing the article instead of answering Torque manipulations. If anything isn't correct, you have only yourself to condemn for. Fadix 02:51, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I dont care about Torque I dont care about you. I care about article being neutral, you are the one who declared you will ignore me, you are the one reverting spelling corrections and cosmetic fixes as POV. You are the who want to be in sole control of the article, What is this most western academia agrees BS? Its baseless. Most people do not CARE. You are pushing the article one sided. I want to keep the article 50/50 which isnt googd enough for you. "OMG he is so biased he wants to keep the article half and half!". I'd like to have a mediator sometime this year. Cat chi? 20:37, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Jayjg and now Josh Cherry too wont allow any updates to a unsourced POV section of original research mostly by Jayjg himself about some people called netzarim. All I want to do is read something verifiable. if anyone knows anything about this topic please take a look. I don't plan on getting involved. All I want to do is sit back and read quietly, but this has been going on for far too many months now. 193.63.146.184 18:01, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
User Pantherarosa waged a revert war on Safavids page. He deliberately deletes the historical facts concerning the Turkic-speaking origin of the Safavids, the pictures and maps rightfully included in the Safavids page and other historical details narrating the history of the Safavid state (1501-1736). Instead, he constantly reverts the article without even adding something new, thus making the page to look like almost a stub. He tries to promote his pan-Persian nationalistic POV arguing that Safavids were of Persian and/or Kurdish ("Aryan") origin. He simply ignores numerous authoritative Western and even Iranian sources pointing that Safavids were Turkic-speaking. He labels these sources (among them medieval chronicles, Cambridge History of Iran in 8 volumes etc.) as "hearsay" and "efforts of Turkish zealots"... The discussions (as well as reverts and counter-reverts) have become increasingly tense and ugly. Mediation is needed to bridge the gap of understanding and mutual personal antagonisms. If mediation doesn't work, arbitration would be the last resort.-- Tabib 15:34, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
A large number of content disputes at Ariel Sharon, B'Tselem, Coalition of the willing, Estimates of the Palestinian Refugee flight of 1948, Israel, Khan Yunis, List of military occupations, Medical Aid for Palestinians, NGO Monitor, Palestinian People's Party, Progress Report of the United Nations Mediator on Palestine and Yasser Arafat. Palestine-info 15:58, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I think article content is only the symptom of the problem. My real concern here is that this editor has created a userid solely for the purpose of political advocacy on behalf of Palestinians. As a result, he has consistently made POV edits which are unsupported by evidence, and often continues to make these edits even in the face of evidence to the contrary, and statements by many outside parties on Talk: pages that his edits are POV and erroneous. Even when RfCs draw in outside editors, and they tell him his edits are unwarranted, he persists in making them. While solving the article content issues would be helpful, I would like to solve the root cause, which I believe is a recognition that Wikipedia is intended to be a NPOV encyclopedia, not a soapbox for political advocacy. I would prefer Jwrosenzweig or Danny as mediators. Jayjg (talk) 15:23, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I a happy to take this case. As always, I would prefer it if both parties were to send me an email summarizing their positions and where they see the problems. Danny 10:46, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Requests for mediation - for which reason, please see details on: [7]. Thank you-- Emax 02:38, Feb 4, 2005 (UTC)
I'm requesting a mediation between me User:Wareware and User:deeceevoice. This person keeps on reverting my edits and inserting racism/racialism/racial supremacy related matters on an article concerning the biological molecule of melanin. I made a two sentences brief mention that melanin is important in determining a person's skin color, an integral criterion on "race," and has corresponding social and political impacts. The readers are then directed to far more detailed articles on race, racism, white and black supremacy and so forth. Deeceevoice then comes along and inserts prolonged information on various caste and apartheid systems around the world based on skin color (already mentioned in detail in the racism article), then goes on institutional racism by white supremacy notions "world-wide." Then goes on to stereotypes of blondes, brunettes, and redheads. I've already said many times on the talk pages that these information regarding racism are already covered ad nauseum in their respective articles, and that the readers should be redirected to them instead of being barraged with them when the article is about the biological molecule. However, deeceevoice just cannnot be reasoned with, since this person's preoccupation is inserting as much racism-related information as possible. On the melanin matter, User:babajobu and User:pstudier stand by my opinion (see the talk pages). In addition, Deeceevoice is known to be a very hostile and vitriolic contributor, just see this person's edit history and various disputes with other contributors (recently on Afrocentrism, Cool (aesthetic)...), and has been requested to act with some civility on many accounts. Ware ware 19:19, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I have edited many articles in an attempt to minimize the effect of the "bug" which creates large blank spaces at the bottoms of articles with Interwiki and Category links by placing the seperators (e.g. !--Interwiki--) between the two sections and deleting the line breaks between each different category and Interwiki. This results in all of the buttons being confined to "one" line and removes the large gap at the bottom. User:Cburnett didn't agree to my fix of the problem and started reverting and undoing all of these changes on all of the articles I have edited in this manner, citing "de facto wikipedia standards". After reverting each other's work back and forth, I called for an end to the edit war and a discussion ensued ( here). It abruptly ended when Cburnett started reverting all of the edits again and declared the conversation over. I suggested Mediation, which he refused, hence my solitary position in bringing this to you. I wish to get some help in determining if these edits of mine are appropriate, as well as the appropriateness of the seperators (which I only included after seeing them on several pages and noting their usefulness/complete lack of interferance with the page). Thank you. -- The Grza 23:20, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)
I request meditation not so much for content reasons, but because jguk has declared his intractable opposition to the inclusion of an external link on the article that he dislikes. Despite the fact that it is appropriately listed under a heading called "Commentary" (in response to his previous complaints), he continues to oppose its inclusion.
The behavior that most concerns me is that even though several users (including myself) have provided numerous detailed references and arguments in favor of this link, jguk does not address them, but merely restates his claims, as if repetition alone will prove his point.
After it became clear that he was alone in his opposition and continual reverting, jguk then opened the issue as an RfC, which immediately produced two comments that supported his position, which jguk claims bolsters his case, though they merely state an opinion, and like jguk, have not addressed any of the references and arguments that support leaving the link up.
The irony here is that I would gladly support taking the link down if jguk would successfully refute the arguments against him, be he hasn't even tried. He just keeps repeating his claims and refuses to answer any specific point that anyone posts, preferring instead to post new configurations and permutations of his original claims.
I have pointed this out to him repeatedly, yet he keeps restating his claims without responding to the specific challenges to them. This has tied up Common Era unduly, which I feel is greatly unfair. So I am requesting mediation now because I don't see the point in content being held hostage to an editor who flatly refuses to respond to specific arguments challenging his position.
References at Talk:Common_Era:
– dablaze 16:11, Mar 27, 2005 (UTC)
[original request commented out below]
I mistakenly placed my request here instead of going to Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment first. My apologies. Oberiko 16:17, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
[original request commented out below]
Request mediation between User:Cumbey and User:SqueakBox. This request was ignored for 10 days on this pagebefore; please can someone take this on now and not leave me waiting 10 days again. Check the archive for details, or ask me. This case has been ignored for too long! -- SqueakBox 16:48, Mar 25, 2005 (UTC)
Request for mediation withdrawn. See Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Cumbey. I think it may be beyond mediation, and I am getting the support I need. Cheers, -- SqueakBox 16:26, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)
The former has proven completely uncapable of accepting any kind of compromise. I don't have time to write one-page essays to justify my very basic NPOV edits that this user mass reverts. His edits on Corporate media are, in particular, blatant propaganda and left-wing POV. See also: Isle of Youth, Death squad, Suharto, Allan Nairn, and Amy Goodman. J. Parker Stone 06:56, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
vandalized by Trey as follows:
Anthere and I have gotten into a conflict recently, in which she has indicated that she is considering leaving Wikipedia. (If I'm reading her comments incorrectly, I apologize.) I have also, because of our spat, considered leaving Wikipedia, at least for a time. We've tried communicating the issue to each other, but it hasn't gone well. (See our talk pages [1] [2], [3], and [4]. Also related: [5] and [6]) I'm very distressed about this conflict, and I think an independent mediator might help us to work this out. I haven't gone through the RFC process because it doesn't really apply in this case; I'm not complaining about Anthere, I'm just looking for some help in resolving the situation. – Quadell ( talk) ( sleuth) 19:50, Mar 7, 2005 (UTC)
The matter was resolved amicably without mediation. Request withdrawn. – Quadell ( talk) ( sleuth) 13:56, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC)
Coolcat continuously edit the Armenian Genocide entry with false informations, when he obviously has no knowledge of the subject. He police that entry like he police everything that can have anything to do with Turkey. That's entirely anti-academic. He claims that my articles are POV and “Armenian Propaganda,” while there has been 200 pages of discussion at the talk page, 160 pages coming from me, Coolcat has not participated in them, and won't read them, and would prefer editing and editing the genocide entry. If before editing he were to discuss each points, like I have done so(and he doesn't even read here), I would have discussed the matter and even admit if there is POV in some points. I do participate in this discussion because I know of what I am talking about, he obviously don't, he justified his position by claiming that I am unjustifiably attacking a nation... he has shown by his edits to have no clue of what he is talking about.
He brag the neutral point of view, but I have read all those rules myself, and it is clearly stipulated that two positions don't need to be presented equally if the majority in the Academic world support one against the other... but Coolcat want the Turkish position to be presented equally as the rest of the World. I have visited the Holocaust entry, and I have clearly seen that more place is left(a lot more) to the position of the majority of the Academia, I don't see why it should be different for the Armenian Genocide. It is true that Turkey deny it, but it is as well true that most in Islamic countries deny the Holocaust, according to him, both revisionist and official versions should be presented equally. I don't see how it is neutral to fool the reader into believing that two positions are supported equally, when it just isn't the cases at all. I request from Coolcat to present a list of works he has read about the issue, because his edits clearly exposes from his part or a strong biases or a total ignorance of the subject at hand. Fadix 17:10, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Comments. This is at bottom a content dispute involving several different parties and not simply a dispute regarding behaviour between Coolcat and Fadix. Moreover, even if it could be approached as a set of behavioural issues, it isn't clear to me that Fadix has selected the approporiate counter-parties, There are a number of other editors involved in the disputes concerning it on both sides of the basic issues, who probably would not feel bound by any compromise that was reached between Coolcat and Fadix. I will add also that I have my doubts as to whether Fadix approaches this mediation with the proper mental attitude. I sense that he seeks some Wikipedia authority who will declare his point of view regarding the article to be "correct", so as to silence the opposition, rather than seeking assistance from a mediator in securing a compromise between the various points of view concerning the subject. -- BM 18:07, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I don't think Torque has permanently resigned from the article. He sent a message about it to me and Mgm only yesterday. Mgm, Everyking, and to some degree, I have all tried to mediate unofficially in this dispute, but what Fadix is looking for from the "moderator" that he keeps appealing for is someone who will agree with him. The issue in this dispute is the degree to which NPOV requires the presentation of all points of view. Fadix argues that the Turkish view is simply "denial" or "revisionism" and can be relegated to a couple of paragraphs at the end of the article in the way that Holocaust denial/revisionism is treated in Holocaust. He even objects to his view being characterized as the "Armenian" view. For him, there is the truth, as concluded by the "majority" of Western scholars, and the Turkish view, which is denial. Others argue that whatever the merits of the arguments, the Turkish view is significant enough that the NPOV policy requires neutrality between it and the other views. I don't know whose point of view is correct, and have no personal axes to grind on the matter, but I am not prepared to treat the "Turkish" view as kooky holocaust denial that is ineligible for NPOV treatment in the Wikipedia. Regarding who the parties to a mediation should be, Torque has probably just decided that it is futile to argue with Fadix. If there is going to be a mediation, Torque should also be involved. -- BM 18:57, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Fadix, let me clarify a few things that I worry are getting lost here. Mediation will not enforce any decision on anyone you feel is misbehaving, unless the two of you can work it out. You need to explain what you hope to agree to with Coolcat--this will require both of you to compromise, at least a little. Please make sure you have notified Coolcat of your mediation request on his talk page, and then come here and write a brief description of what you realistically hope to agree to with Coolcat. Please also offer any mediator's names (see WP:MC) who you would prefer, but remember that the mediator is there to help you two work things out on your own, not to take either side. Thanks, Jwrosenzweig 23:00, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I don't want any messages saying this subject is controversial, Coolcat insist that there should be a note that say just that. Controversial imply that specialists in the field(Holocaust and genocide study) are divided about the subject, when it is not the cases at all.
I expect more place to be left for the view supported by most Academics, Coolcat want the cases presented as 50%-50% claiming that is what is neutral. I oppose, and claim that being neutral doesn't mean to mislead the reader into believing that both versions are equally represented in the Academic world, when it is obviously not.
I have by myself made many concessions, and will be making others, just recently I have made a new proposition. Dividing each positions and explaining them. First, what most Western scholars more or less say about it, then, what the Turkish government say about, what the international community say about, then present the Military court of 1919, the Permanent People Tribunal in 1984... the UN convention and a historic of the Armenian cases in the UN etc. Just by representing this, I am showing why, both cases can not be presented 50-50... because one side version revolve around: “They backstabbed us and they were relocated because they were dangerous.” We can not extend that statement indefinitely as to equal it with the rest... because if we do that, we will end up giving less space to the official Western version which would be unfair. It isn't my fault that the cases of genocide is recognized by most in the Academia, it isn't my fault that it is recognized by international bodies... why should I then have less space to present the theses of genocide... when not only shall I present in this 50% space, the theses of genocide, but as well, the international bodies decision, the Turkish human right organization, the Military tribunal, the Permanent People tribunal, the recognition by various countries... how much space is left to represent the Armenian genocide theses?
That is why, I am saying that we can not present 50-50, because we will mislead the reader... Neutral Point of view doesn't require that each sides be given as much space, when one side in the Academic world represent a minority... Neutral point of view doesn't mean to mislead the reader to believe just that.
I have read many Wikipedia entry, and I have seen many cases that are called an example of success of community work, which would be considered as no neutral when using the same standard as the one used to judge my Armenian genocide entry. And I am ready here to present cases and show how... and this including entries in which Coolcat has participated, when it is pro-turkey, he doesn't care of neutrality, but when it doesn't favor Turkey, he will jump in the discussion. That is unfair, Wikipedia should not be constructed on national biases, it should be constructed on knowledge and accurate representation of events. And I do support Neutral, but this neutral representation should not mean to represent two sides equally, when they are not supported equally... one has just to research the issue to see it's true, and even those not supporting my theses if they are unbiased would recognize both side are not represented equally in the academia.
I would like to make another point, since I saw that Torque has started his war of character assassination in another board for what has happened here by posting racist materials... and I think part of this problem is Wikipedia, Torque has received no warning what so ever for his racism in this site, and I have found myself being viewed as the offensive party, and I think it started with when Coolcat has left a message to BM, and I believe BM judged me and took Coolcat position, because he's a veteran and I am a newbie. Another thing I believe, I think there should some conditions to participate in complex articles, I find it hard to accept, when people that do not know a subject sabotate an article because of national biases. If they do not find it neutral, they could ask to people that know about it. Had Coolcat asked me to make few changes, I would have accepted. Fadix 17:15, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)
It is your claim without basis that MOST academics acknowlege the genocide, in reality its disputed. The article is required to be presented so that the user can read it with an open mind. Baseless statistics of "scholars believe this" is not wikipedia way. Even if the statistics regarding all scholars is acurate this is NOT lead material. Also on multiple articles, fadix has made edits aproaching The genocide as a solid fact most noteworthy Genocides in history. Also he talked people arguing with him to death by posting pages worth of data, that is ok as he was a newbie. Dont bite newbies I know, but newbies are not supposed to bite oldies either.
He was claiming that I have a hidden agenda, he was constantly acusing me of things. While I was merely presenting material that countered his views hence his views were not as neutral as he claimed. I am not happy with the current mediator. Article is not a simple historic dispute but a Diplomatic dispute with mass amount of propoganda. Claims like "Turkey gassed childeren" (paraphrasing) is definately not neutral. Any addition subtraction I make is immidiately reverted. Anything I said is ignored. Providing 200,000 dead instead of 800,000 (min) bothers fadix while 200,000 is official Turkish claim of the # of dead. He is saying its POV. Cat chi? 05:36, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
He believes that the death of Armanians were deliberate goverment organised Genocide, while another explanation is famine or disease and other stuff. There are two views. He is declaring the oposing view POV and his view fact. Cat chi? 06:45, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
It takes some face for someone saying that he does not believe the Holocaust happened to come here and say I am not neutral. I repeat, that MOST Western academicians recognize the event as a genocide is a fact, I proposed you to research libraries to see that this is obviously true. Wikipedia is clear about neutrality and you can do nothing about it. And where did I claim “Turkey” gassed children? I referred to records used during the martial court... And as well the article does not make a direct statement about it but rather propose it as a claim.
And it is surprising that Coolcat has nothing to say with Torque posting load of materials and when I answer he criticize me of posting and posting... and more amazingly he even asked torque to do so by asking him to research “POV” in what I write. I can't say that I am really unhappy about it, because Torque has just posted more fabricated materials showing how he rely on dubious materials and how he can't be trusted upon. Right now, I will take a brake from answering him, but will answer all of his posts, because I do believe Wikiepdia is not the place for genocide deniers that under the banner of neutrality try to impose their minority view as equal as what most specialists have established.
And yes! You have a hidden agenda, and no 200,000 Armenian deaths can not be presented as credible figure, when the official Ottoman figures were of 800,000 killed. The 200,000 is even lower than Talaat sarcastic disgusting joke of “300,000” similar to those made by Hitler about tens of thousands of Jews at most having perished making fun of countless numbers of victims.
The actual mediator is doing a good job, and all was going well until you disturbed the peace by waking up Torque, when both Torque and you knows that you have no position to defend against me so now you go on crying telling how non-neutral all this was. Had you need disturbed the peace, today I would have worked on neutralizing the article instead of answering Torque manipulations. If anything isn't correct, you have only yourself to condemn for. Fadix 02:51, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I dont care about Torque I dont care about you. I care about article being neutral, you are the one who declared you will ignore me, you are the one reverting spelling corrections and cosmetic fixes as POV. You are the who want to be in sole control of the article, What is this most western academia agrees BS? Its baseless. Most people do not CARE. You are pushing the article one sided. I want to keep the article 50/50 which isnt googd enough for you. "OMG he is so biased he wants to keep the article half and half!". I'd like to have a mediator sometime this year. Cat chi? 20:37, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Jayjg and now Josh Cherry too wont allow any updates to a unsourced POV section of original research mostly by Jayjg himself about some people called netzarim. All I want to do is read something verifiable. if anyone knows anything about this topic please take a look. I don't plan on getting involved. All I want to do is sit back and read quietly, but this has been going on for far too many months now. 193.63.146.184 18:01, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
User Pantherarosa waged a revert war on Safavids page. He deliberately deletes the historical facts concerning the Turkic-speaking origin of the Safavids, the pictures and maps rightfully included in the Safavids page and other historical details narrating the history of the Safavid state (1501-1736). Instead, he constantly reverts the article without even adding something new, thus making the page to look like almost a stub. He tries to promote his pan-Persian nationalistic POV arguing that Safavids were of Persian and/or Kurdish ("Aryan") origin. He simply ignores numerous authoritative Western and even Iranian sources pointing that Safavids were Turkic-speaking. He labels these sources (among them medieval chronicles, Cambridge History of Iran in 8 volumes etc.) as "hearsay" and "efforts of Turkish zealots"... The discussions (as well as reverts and counter-reverts) have become increasingly tense and ugly. Mediation is needed to bridge the gap of understanding and mutual personal antagonisms. If mediation doesn't work, arbitration would be the last resort.-- Tabib 15:34, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
A large number of content disputes at Ariel Sharon, B'Tselem, Coalition of the willing, Estimates of the Palestinian Refugee flight of 1948, Israel, Khan Yunis, List of military occupations, Medical Aid for Palestinians, NGO Monitor, Palestinian People's Party, Progress Report of the United Nations Mediator on Palestine and Yasser Arafat. Palestine-info 15:58, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I think article content is only the symptom of the problem. My real concern here is that this editor has created a userid solely for the purpose of political advocacy on behalf of Palestinians. As a result, he has consistently made POV edits which are unsupported by evidence, and often continues to make these edits even in the face of evidence to the contrary, and statements by many outside parties on Talk: pages that his edits are POV and erroneous. Even when RfCs draw in outside editors, and they tell him his edits are unwarranted, he persists in making them. While solving the article content issues would be helpful, I would like to solve the root cause, which I believe is a recognition that Wikipedia is intended to be a NPOV encyclopedia, not a soapbox for political advocacy. I would prefer Jwrosenzweig or Danny as mediators. Jayjg (talk) 15:23, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I a happy to take this case. As always, I would prefer it if both parties were to send me an email summarizing their positions and where they see the problems. Danny 10:46, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Requests for mediation - for which reason, please see details on: [7]. Thank you-- Emax 02:38, Feb 4, 2005 (UTC)
I'm requesting a mediation between me User:Wareware and User:deeceevoice. This person keeps on reverting my edits and inserting racism/racialism/racial supremacy related matters on an article concerning the biological molecule of melanin. I made a two sentences brief mention that melanin is important in determining a person's skin color, an integral criterion on "race," and has corresponding social and political impacts. The readers are then directed to far more detailed articles on race, racism, white and black supremacy and so forth. Deeceevoice then comes along and inserts prolonged information on various caste and apartheid systems around the world based on skin color (already mentioned in detail in the racism article), then goes on institutional racism by white supremacy notions "world-wide." Then goes on to stereotypes of blondes, brunettes, and redheads. I've already said many times on the talk pages that these information regarding racism are already covered ad nauseum in their respective articles, and that the readers should be redirected to them instead of being barraged with them when the article is about the biological molecule. However, deeceevoice just cannnot be reasoned with, since this person's preoccupation is inserting as much racism-related information as possible. On the melanin matter, User:babajobu and User:pstudier stand by my opinion (see the talk pages). In addition, Deeceevoice is known to be a very hostile and vitriolic contributor, just see this person's edit history and various disputes with other contributors (recently on Afrocentrism, Cool (aesthetic)...), and has been requested to act with some civility on many accounts. Ware ware 19:19, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I have edited many articles in an attempt to minimize the effect of the "bug" which creates large blank spaces at the bottoms of articles with Interwiki and Category links by placing the seperators (e.g. !--Interwiki--) between the two sections and deleting the line breaks between each different category and Interwiki. This results in all of the buttons being confined to "one" line and removes the large gap at the bottom. User:Cburnett didn't agree to my fix of the problem and started reverting and undoing all of these changes on all of the articles I have edited in this manner, citing "de facto wikipedia standards". After reverting each other's work back and forth, I called for an end to the edit war and a discussion ensued ( here). It abruptly ended when Cburnett started reverting all of the edits again and declared the conversation over. I suggested Mediation, which he refused, hence my solitary position in bringing this to you. I wish to get some help in determining if these edits of mine are appropriate, as well as the appropriateness of the seperators (which I only included after seeing them on several pages and noting their usefulness/complete lack of interferance with the page). Thank you. -- The Grza 23:20, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)
I request meditation not so much for content reasons, but because jguk has declared his intractable opposition to the inclusion of an external link on the article that he dislikes. Despite the fact that it is appropriately listed under a heading called "Commentary" (in response to his previous complaints), he continues to oppose its inclusion.
The behavior that most concerns me is that even though several users (including myself) have provided numerous detailed references and arguments in favor of this link, jguk does not address them, but merely restates his claims, as if repetition alone will prove his point.
After it became clear that he was alone in his opposition and continual reverting, jguk then opened the issue as an RfC, which immediately produced two comments that supported his position, which jguk claims bolsters his case, though they merely state an opinion, and like jguk, have not addressed any of the references and arguments that support leaving the link up.
The irony here is that I would gladly support taking the link down if jguk would successfully refute the arguments against him, be he hasn't even tried. He just keeps repeating his claims and refuses to answer any specific point that anyone posts, preferring instead to post new configurations and permutations of his original claims.
I have pointed this out to him repeatedly, yet he keeps restating his claims without responding to the specific challenges to them. This has tied up Common Era unduly, which I feel is greatly unfair. So I am requesting mediation now because I don't see the point in content being held hostage to an editor who flatly refuses to respond to specific arguments challenging his position.
References at Talk:Common_Era:
– dablaze 16:11, Mar 27, 2005 (UTC)
[original request commented out below]
I mistakenly placed my request here instead of going to Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment first. My apologies. Oberiko 16:17, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
[original request commented out below]
Request mediation between User:Cumbey and User:SqueakBox. This request was ignored for 10 days on this pagebefore; please can someone take this on now and not leave me waiting 10 days again. Check the archive for details, or ask me. This case has been ignored for too long! -- SqueakBox 16:48, Mar 25, 2005 (UTC)
Request for mediation withdrawn. See Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Cumbey. I think it may be beyond mediation, and I am getting the support I need. Cheers, -- SqueakBox 16:26, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)
The former has proven completely uncapable of accepting any kind of compromise. I don't have time to write one-page essays to justify my very basic NPOV edits that this user mass reverts. His edits on Corporate media are, in particular, blatant propaganda and left-wing POV. See also: Isle of Youth, Death squad, Suharto, Allan Nairn, and Amy Goodman. J. Parker Stone 06:56, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
vandalized by Trey as follows: