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The result was delete. —
The Earwig ⟨
talk⟩ 02:44, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete non-notable musician. LA weekly entry isn't SIGCOV.
Elliot321 (
talk |
contribs) 03:22, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete not even one source that constitutes significant coverage in a reliable, secondary, independent 3rd-party source, let alone the multiple ones we need.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 18:00, 17 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete. Sandstein 09:11, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete per
WP:TNT. I'd say the topic might be notable, as it has been covered a lot in fiction, but I don't see anything salvageable from the current state of the article.
Pladica (
talk) 04:28, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply Delete In addition to
WP:CRYSTAL there is a big list of other relevant issues (see the template at the top of the article). For cases like these you can just use
WP:PROD. I wouldn't expect any objection for this nomination.-
Renat 12:21, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply Delete per
WP:CRYSTAL. -
Amigao (
talk) 18:24, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
"though editors should be aware of creating undue bias to any specific point-of-view" Normchou💬 17:43, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
This argument is invalid, because the article is written only based on (!) 3 news sources and they do not predict: WP:NOTNEWS. There is not enough coverage for the subject so the article fails to meet WP:GNG. Someone could be tricked with the amount of text in the article, but I checked text-source integrity and can confirm, that the content of the article violates WP:OR. There is no way such amount of text could be extracted out from 3 news sources.--
Renat 10:30, 18 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete just because a few people have speculated about something does not make it a subject that we can actually have an encyclopedic article on.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 21:23, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Fails
WP:NORG. References are either affiliated with subject (the IWW/Starbucks union websites) or aren't sufficiently independent (the many profiles of the union that are generally just interviews with the union members).
Chess (
talk) (please use {{
reply to|Chess}} on reply) 22:10, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep it easily passes
WP:GNG with stories about the organization itself in the Boston Globe, Seattle Times, New York Times, and Wall Street Journal to name a few. A quick search of newspapers.com also reveals a number of other sources in newspapers across the United States. There is also
a book written about it by
Staughton Lynd and numerous other mentions of varying levels of depth available via Google Scholar.--
User:Namiba 03:37, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
GNG isn't applicable here. As an organization these sources have to abide by SIRS. Most of them aren't independently written and are just profiles or otherwise insignificant. Brief mentions don't satisfy
WP:SIRS.
Chess (
talk) (please use {{
reply to|Chess}} on reply) 07:27, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
For that matter, anything by Straughton Lynd automatically fails the "independent" part of SIRS as he has very strong ties to the IWW (having given a speech to their general assembly).
Chess (
talk) (please use {{
reply to|Chess}} on reply) 07:37, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Chess, It's normal for scholars to be also involved in topics they research. If you think the source is not reliable, I suggest taking it to
WP:RSN first. If there is consensus it is unreliable, then we can remove it and it will carry much less weight here. But for now, I'd call it reliable (a book written by an academic expert on the topic). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 05:53, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
@
Piotrus: Didn't say it was unreliable, just that it doesn't meet the criteria for showing the Starbucks Workers Union is notable.
WP:SIRS is very clear here. The source must be completely independent of the article subject to prevent organizations from gaming the system. Since the SWU is an IWW union and Straughton Lynd is very associated with the IWW, the source does not satisfy the "independent" criteria of SIRS. While I'm sure it is a reliable source, it is not an independent one. If you don't like that policy, I suggest you take it up at the talk page at
WT:NORG to get it changed.
Chess (
talk) (please use {{
reply to|Chess}} on reply) 06:20, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Chess, NORG as usual focuses on commercial companies and fails when it comes to non-profits. SIRS is intended to prevent paid-for shills from creating fake 'independent' sources. Anyway, let's examine this case in more detail. You claim "Straughton Lynd is very associated with the IWW" but right now his article doesn't mention any such ties? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 06:34, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
@
Piotrus:NORG is applicable to unions regardless of your feelings on the matter. Unions can pay for shills just as much as any other organization. While I can pretty clearly see that this AfD is going to result in a keep because the unwritten rule is that NORG is really just meant to target organizations that endeavour to turn a profit and the policy is only written the way it is to give the illusion of fairness, I believe that the policy should be enforced the way it is written which is why I opened this AfD.
On Lynd's association with the IWW, I point out these excerpts of a speech he gave to the IWW general assembly
[1] he cowrote a book with one of the founders of the Starbucks Workers Union (Daniel Gross, his SWU affiliation given a single sentence in the linked article).
[2] And while I cannot find a source saying Lynd has ever worked for the IWW or is a member (never said he was), I'd say giving speeches on behalf of the IWW and writing books with IWW members that are considered essential IWW literature, originating the "Solidarity Unionism" philosophy of the IWW
[3] certainly make him a
fellow traveler at the very least.
In all honesty none of that really matters though because after taking another look at the book you've linked I've realized that it's the exact book Lynd wrote with Daniel Gross. So I'm pretty sure there's no way in hell a book cowritten by the founder of the Starbucks Workers Union satisfies the "independence" criteria of SIRS and probably doesn't even satisfy the GNG criteria if it was applicable here.
Chess (
talk) (please use {{
reply to|Chess}} on reply) 07:33, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep A search with the phrase "Starbucks Workers Union" produces many ,many mentions in Google books:
Brief mentions don't satisfy
WP:SIRS and neither do profiles written based off of the unions pamphleteering or interviews.
Chess (
talk) (please use {{
reply to|Chess}} on reply) 07:27, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
First book was written by Daniel Gross, founder of the SWU
[4] and the second fails the significance criterion of
WP:SIRS. It covers Starbucks far more than the union and limits its coverage of the SWU to three paragraphs, one of which is almost entirely composed of a verbatim quote of the SWUs website.
Chess (
talk) (please use {{
reply to|Chess}} on reply) 07:40, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete. ♠
PMC♠
(talk) 11:15, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
KEEP: Considering the importance of Catalent, a CDMO manufacturing at least 100 million doses of the COVID vaccine, this person should be considered notable regardless of whether anyone has decided to write about them. While not well-known among the general public, Catalent is playing a very important role in overcoming the COVID pandemic.
PeanutTheDog55 (
talk) 23:10, 19 February 2021 (UTC) —
PeanutTheDog55 (
talk •
contribs) has made
few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
That is the company, not him, and notability is not inherited. There is no coverage on him. scope_creepTalk
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Fails
WP:GNG. A political party that has never won any seat or office in any election and, as far as I can tell, has never received any significant coverage. (I don't speak Ukrainian, but Google search/translate results do not give the impression that there is anything.) The party's founder,
Natalya Zemna, has an article, but she doesn't seem to be notable either, see
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natalya Zemna.
Lennart97 (
talk) 21:56, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was Withdrawn by nom. Meets GNG (and WP:NBASE), with sources found by Muboshgu.
(non-admin closure)Natg 19 (
talk) 22:40, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Non-notable MLB pitcher. Yes, I know that he technically meets
WP:NBASE, but he only appeared in 1 MLB game. It seems that he played 9 years in the minor leagues prior to his MLB appearance.
Natg 19 (
talk) 21:56, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep Like you said, he meets
WP:NBASE. So why did you nominate this exactly? You didn't even bother with
WP:BEFORE, did you?
[5][6][7] –
Muboshgu (
talk) 22:16, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
I did attempt to find sources about him, but I did not find any. In my opinion, just having played in 1 game doesn't meet the standard for
WP:NBASE. On further research, I was able to find more sources, so I'll withdraw.
Natg 19 (
talk) 22:39, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep. Played in Major League Baseball so he is notable.
Spanneraol (
talk) 22:26, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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not yet notable artist. No work in the permanent collection of major museums. No major studies about her--the first NYT ref has one sentence mentioning her in a long review of a exhibition; the other mentions her only as the wife of the subject of the article. DGG (
talk ) 21:28, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Weak Keep Gobonobo has summed it up well. I think It's more the collections that mean she may meet
WP:NARTIST. There is not an enormous smount of coverage out there, but with the collections it maybe enough.
Possibly (
talk) 23:27, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Changing to solid keep based on the two collections and the
article improvements by gobonobo. GNG is fully met, and
WP:NARTIST is minimally met for the two collections (one of the works is a collaborative work, but she is clearly credited).
Possibly (
talk) 03:25, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep On the basis of available resources, subject seems to be notable.
Niceguylucky (
talk) 08:42, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep per discussion and page improvements.
Randy Kryn (
talk) 12:02, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep - The artist is in the early stages of her career and we will probably hearing more about her in the coming years. The article in its current state, thanks to the great work by
Gobonobo now meets
WP:GNG. She also is in two museum collections therefore meets
WP:NARTIST.
Netherzone (
talk) 13:01, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Subject does not meet GNG, BASIC, ANYBIO or NSOLDIER. Sources in the article and BEFORE did not show anything with SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and in depth. The Times reference is the name in a list of two people killed, not even a complete sentence. "The Scramble in the Horn of Africa" does not mention the subject on pp.386 (it does mention a report from Colonel R. I. Scallon, but no mention of the subject or support claims in the article) and a search showed nothing on any other page. //
Timothy ::
talk 21:00, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete No SIGCOV anywhere.
SK2242 (
talk) 21:13, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete. Sandstein 10:48, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
A note on
WP:RSN provided
no further independent information on this newspaper; I can find no reason to assume this is notable. It is odd for a newspaper that claims a circulation of 66,000 copies to not receive any coverage itself, and the only explanation for that--well, I don't want to speculate. But this is not a notable subject, given the complete lack of coverage, and I'd add that I don't think it's a reliable source either (I know, that's another matter).
Buidhe, thank you for chiming in at RSN.
Drmies (
talk) 20:59, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete as a presumptive NCORP failure. A search for references is made difficult with New Europe's own articles appearing in search results.
SK2242 (
talk) 21:17, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The only WP:RS source I can immediately find is
[8] a French-language scholarly article with 1-2 sentences about New Europe, not SIGCOV. With the stated circulation and length of history there might well be more independent, reliable sources, but I'm not finding them. If they can't be found I agree the article should be deleted. (
t ·
c) buidhe 21:28, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment: I'm struggling to find sources that establish GNG (apart from Buidehe's source above, all I can find is
[9]), but it's very possible they exist. "New Europe" has so many red herring results that it's hard to sort through the chaffe. IAR, I'm hesitant to delete. 150,000 online readers and 60,000 print subscribers is a substantial readership and 1993 is a decent history. This is a good case of a publication that appears to meet
WP:NMEDIA criteria 3, are considered by reliable sources to be authoritative in their subject area (the EU), or criteria 5, are significant publications in ethnic and other non-trivial niche markets (people interested in the EU). {{u|Sdkb}}talk 05:00, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The issue is that I don't think either of these sources establish either criteria 3 or 5. I've seen no evidence that this is a RS source let alone "authoritative". And I don't know how to judge if a publication is "significant" except RS coverage. New Europe isn't even on the list
[10] of media frequently followed by MEPs. (
t ·
c) buidhe 05:07, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
User:Sdkb, Buidhe hits the nail on the head. The basic facts can't even be established reliably.
Drmies (
talk) 15:26, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Note: I checked the Turkish story (from 2009) and it seems to be pushing a conspiracy that US wants a military coup to happen in Turkey. When a coup actually was attempted (in 2016), the US condemned it. (
t ·
c) buidhe 02:56, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was redirect to
USS John R. Craig (DD-885)#Namesake and commissioning. This time around, consensus is rather clearly against keeping this as a separate article. There is no clear consensus about whether and what to merge, but this seems to be a moot distinction because much content appears to have been merged already. It's now up to the editorial process to determine whether to reduce or enhance the biographical content in the target article. Sandstein 13:57, 21 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep A warship was named after him which is a "significant award or honor" and so passes
WP:ANYBIO.
Andrew🐉(
talk) 17:56, 24 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Redirect to
USS John R. Craig (DD-885). Fails
WP:SOLDIER (LtCDR posthumously awarded a Navy Cross. Having a ship named after him during WWII is not a "significant award or honor") and
WP:GNG. No SIGCOV in multiple RS so not notable.
Mztourist (
talk) 03:15, 25 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge to
USS John R. Craig (DD-885) per above. Doesn't pass for a stand alone article, but the content will improve the target article, be less fragmented, and give the content more readership. Per
WP:N, "Editors may use their discretion to merge or group two or more related topics into a single article." The article as a stand alone will receive minimal readership, but as part of the target will receive much more. There is no benefit to fragmenting the content. I ce'd the article to help with the merge. //
Timothy ::
talk 14:57, 25 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep As a matter of housekeeping, I would note that this is there is a previous nomination for deletion that just went down the tubes. This is the second nomination. This fact is being knowingly suppressed – on this and many articles. See
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Edward Henry Allen. The record should be corrected accordingly. There is a systemic attempt to hide that fact over many articles.
This is a procedural hijack and an attempt to make sure that editors who do their job properly won't have time to respond. This is 'putting old wine in new bottles' — doing by indirection that which you cannot do by direction.
This is relevant, and it should be fixed. It is a fact. It is always put into the history. I've never seen this, and it is a direct result of the misbegotten attempt to purge a couple of hundred articles. And all at once, overwhelming the limited number of editors who actively try to save articles, while at the same time trolling those editors to make their job difficult and discourage them with distractions. Apparently it takes no time to resurrect hundreds of Navy Cross/Silver Star/Ship name honorees for deletion. It takes a lot of time to respond and improve all of these articles. This is in fact a second nomination (among many). And given the fact that there is no good faith compliance with
WP:Before and a blatant disregard of sources that exist but aren't cited — which do factor in to notability, this sneak attack is (dare I say it) ... a date that will live in infamy. You are distorting the process and rigging the outcomes.
Subject meets or exceeds
WP:GNG. No compliance with
WP:Before. The protocol is that one should not only look at the present cited sources, but available sources, too. 7&6=thirteen (
☎) 15:02, 30 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Relisted after a "no consensus" closure and a similarly inconclusive discussion at
Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2021 February 2.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 20:48, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The current content of paragraph 1 of
USS John R. Craig (DD-885)#Namesake and commissioning is more than sufficient for a bio stub. In terms of article structure, it is a perversion to have a garden path structure of ship -> namesake -> command history -> other ships unconnected to first ship. The bio should have an incoming link from every ship he commanded, and three incoming links justifies the standalone article. —
SmokeyJoe (
talk) 08:36, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Redirect with option to merge to
USS John R. Craig (DD-885). Through all the lengthy history of this article, there have not been enough sources presented to meet the GNG. Longstanding policy (
WP:ATD-M) permits the non-notable article to be merged into another, notable article. In this case, the USS John R. Craig is the appropriate one, since it's necessary to explain why the ship was named for him. The ironic thing here is that no content needs to be lost: it can all be merged over. The only question is whether our coverage of this man needs to be fragmented into two articles, and policy is clear that it shouldn't be.
Extraordinary Writ (
talk) 21:19, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
If not disposing of most of the content, this merge will mean that the
USS John R. Craig (DD-885) article will contain a sizeable outtake of discussion of the command history of the
USS R-17 (SS-94) as well as the command history and fate of the
USS Grampus (SS-207). That is perverse
meta:Structurism. It doesn’t fit. It would be an obvious case for a spinout of this person. Are you sure you have really thought this hypothetical merge through? —
SmokeyJoe (
talk) 02:58, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
(edit conflict with Mztourist, below) What is this article? It's text from the Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships, in which it serves to explain why the Craig was named after him. As such, it would work perfectly well at the article about the Craig, where it would fulfill the same function: explaining why the ship was named for him. The section about the "command history and fate of the Grampus" covers exactly three sentences, and the section about the R-17 covers exactly one sentence. That's not "a sizeable outtake": it's basic background, and it would be useful to the reader. As such, there's no danger of turning the ship's article into a coatrack, and a merge proposal is certainly not "perverse".
Extraordinary Writ (
talk) 04:23, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment I have already merged all relevant information on Craig onto
USS John R. Craig (DD-885). It amounts to one paragraph. The loss of the
USS Grampus (SS-207) is covered on that page.
SmokeyJoe the pages for
USS R-17 (SS-94) and Grampus don't feature command histories, so that argument doesn't carry much weight.
Mztourist (
talk) 04:10, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Redirect to
USS John R. Craig (DD-885), where the relevant content has already been merged to. Does not meet
WP:BIO, so no reason to keep as a stand-alone article. A plausible search term, with a clear redirect target. --
K.e.coffman (
talk) 04:23, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge for now I strongly suspect we'll find sources solid enough to meet the GNG, but we aren't there yet.
Hobit (
talk) 13:13, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Redirect to
USS John R. Craig (DD-885), which is basically the same as merging since the important content has already been merged. The only source cited in the article is
[13]. This is a wiki which accepts user-submitted content, and therefore isn't very reliable. It does link to other pages, however they aren't great sources either (the guy's college yearbook, two other memorial associations and a service history). I wouldn't be surprised if there's some other brief coverage of him from when he got the medal or when the ship was named after him, but I don't think he passes
WP:GNG. Even if having a ship named after you does meet
WP:ANYBIO as a "well-known and significant award or honor",
WP:BIO#Special cases says that subjects which meet ANYBIO but fail the GNG should be merged into another article. Since his main significance is having the ship named after him it makes sense to cover him in the article about the ship. Hut 8.5 18:43, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Fails
WP:NALBUM, on account of not having been released and having almost no details available about it, and if one of its makers is to be believed, will now never be released. I've been following this for a while – a collaborative hip hop album that was put on ice indefinitely after Lil Peep died. There is coverage of iLoveMakonnen speaking in 2019 after Lil Peep's death, talking about how he was continuing to work on the album
[14],
[15],
[16], but those were
WP:PRIMARY promotional interviews around the release of the lead single from the planned album, and don't really say anything more than that he was continuing to work on the record – no details of other songs or anything. The two songs that are talked about in any detail, "
Sunlight on Your Skin" and "
I've Been Waiting", already have their own articles. And now according to a recent Instagram chat with iLoveMakonnen, the album will never be released
[17]. Of course, decisions and circumstances can change, but as of now, the release of this album appears unlikely, so this is
WP:CRYSTALBALL and there is almost no reliable information about it, and we shouldn't be keeping stub articles indefinitely based on a possible release one day in the future. If it does eventually see the light of day, the article can be easily recreated, because there's almost nothing here worth keeping – a few days ago a new editor added a track listing, but this is unsourced OR and are the editor's only edits to Wikipedia so far. This collaborative album is already mentioned in the articles for both artists. So there's nothing to merge, and as both artists are notable, no redirect target per
WP:XY.
Richard3120 (
talk) 19:42, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete – Fails
WP:NALBUM and appears to be nothing special, despite tragic circumstances, etc. Web sources make passing mentions of expected album while talking about/with artist, but naturally have nothing much to say about album directly. Article itself should never have been made; now's not too soon to kill it. —
JohnFromPinckney (
talk) 20:37, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Fails
WP:NBASKETBALL and
WP:GNG. Played a measily 27 minutes in 2016 for Bahamas national team and seems to not be playing anymore.
Kline | vroom vroom 19:00, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep He passes
WP:GNG with the sources now in the article. On a sidenote, he may have "Played a measily 27 minutes in 2016 for Bahamas national team" but as the article clearly stated, he played in the
2022 FIBA AmeriCup qualification and is considered a key player for the games expected to be played in 2021.
[18]Alvaldi (
talk) 21:23, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Strong Keep As mentioned above, he clearly passes
WP:GNG. He played much more than 27 minutes but is just a side note...please check the facts more thoroughly. In fact, whether he still plays or how many minutes he played is irrelevant as it has nothing to do with wikipedia's notability criteria.
Stephreef (
talk) 10:34, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Weak keep Just enough sources to justify passing GNG. He doesn't meet notability from strict NBASKETBALL standards, but that guideline is more about the specifics of a ball player rather than overall notability.
SportsGuy789 (
talk) 20:06, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
keep. Agree with above, he just passes
WP:GNG.
Alex-h (
talk) 17:28, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete the alleged GNG "pass" is with a lot of low quality coverage and should not be allowed to overcome the total and complete failure of the basketball notability guidelines.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 18:07, 17 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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One line article about an American golfer who fails
WP:NGOLF. A
WP:BEFORE search only brings up articles about his PGA Tour debut being delayed by Covid, and his subsequent debut. A case of
WP:TOOSOON.
John B123 (
talk) 18:52, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep - A quick Google News search for "Kamaiu Johnson" shows over a dozen articles granting direct coverage from higher quality outlets. Seems to meet
WP:GNG.
NickCT (
talk) 19:06, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete - per
WP:BLP1E/
WP:ONEEVENT. Below the standard of golfer we would normally cover. Seems to be his first
OWGR event, only played mini-tours so far. No notable amateur career. Only seems to be notable as he's been given a one-off opportunity to play in a PGA Tour event.
Nigej (
talk) 19:16, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep I agree with NickCT, seems to meet
WP:GNG, regardless if he's below the standard of golfer we would normally cover. We cover what is covered in sources, of which there are plenty for him.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk) 20:32, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
^^This. I guess I might agree w/ some of the delete folks that this guy might not be notable by
WP:NGOLF standards. But GNG trumps NGOLF.
NickCT (
talk) 20:54, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
But does he pass BLP1E/NOT? I'm unconvinced there is reason to believe coverage will extend beyond these tour appearances. wjematherplease leave a message... 21:17, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Aren't there a lot of golfers who don't get coverage outside tour appearances?
NickCT (
talk) 17:55, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Ok. Fair enough. But aren't there a lot of golfers on WP that don't get coverage outside tour appearances?
NickCT (
talk) 19:35, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Probably, and some of them possibly don't meet the criteria for standalone articles, but that doesn't help us here. NGOLF specifies a golfer should have played a full season or had exceptional performances at the elite level as a reasonable insurance that coverage will be available over an extended period. GNG is there to catch the rest, subject to other guidelines and policy provisions. wjematherplease leave a message... 14:36, 17 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep - Not to discredit his golfing abilities but his rags-to-riches background story captures attention and the Google hits prove it. If this article gets dropped it'll be back in short order.--
Hooperbloob (
talk) 15:42, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep, meets notability and does not deserve to be deleted.
Alex-h (
talk) 18:05, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete without prejudice to revisiting this article when/if more
reliable sources come about such that it meets the
WP:NMUSICIAN or
WP:GNG notability guidelines.
TheSandDoctorTalk 08:26, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete I agree. I'm not seeing much in sources for him, even music industry magazines. Coverage doesn't seem significant enough.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk) 20:35, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete not enough sources to show notability.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 13:46, 17 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Routine election of a city of 76,610 people. Not automatically notable. Nothing distinguishing this election. The election has not been identified as particularly notable. None of the individuals running have even been identified as particularly notable.
SecretName101 (
talk) 17:51, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete. There is not sufficient coverage that makes the election notable.
Rondolinda (
talk) 23:07, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete, per nom.does not prove notability.
Alex-h (
talk) 18:08, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete.
Malcolmxl5 (
talk) 03:10, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Purely
WP:PROMOTIONAL article about an organization that does not meet
WP:GNG, potentially written for pay. –
Muboshgu (
talk) 17:48, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. Likely paid-for spam, creator blocked for advertising. Sources are mostly press releases.
MER-C 19:05, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete Very little coverage in the article sources, excepting the articles on cryptocurrency sites discussing how the subject is embracing crypto, which I don't believe establishes notability.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk) 20:39, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete The alleged sources are either PR fluff or don't cover the subject; fails notability with flying colours. Likely paid promo piece (by now banned editor, one might add). --
DoubleGrazing (
talk) 08:14, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete. Unanimous agreement here even after I discount a sockpuppet argument.
Malcolmxl5 (
talk) 03:12, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete. Evidently uncontroversial.
Malcolmxl5 (
talk) 03:14, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete we do not need disambiguation for two entries.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 21:38, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete as uncontroversial cleanup. (I know disambigs go to AfD rather than MfD, but I don't quite get why.)
Vaticidalprophet (
talk) 22:54, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete. Noting BLPREQUESTDELETE.
Malcolmxl5 (
talk) 03:23, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Subject has requested deletion. As noted in the
previous AfD closed as no consensus, there is some coverage, but in my opinion not enough to establish clear notability that overrides the BLPREQUESTDELETE concerns. —
The Earwig ⟨
talk⟩ 17:33, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete. Both per
WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE and due to the current lack of sourcing—the first two sources are primary and the third is not independent.
Perryprog (
talk) 17:34, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete.
WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE, poor sourcing. As the subject has requested deletion due to privacy concerns (she hasn't released her name, thus non-public), it clearly meets the criteria of
WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE. Additionally, the sources are weak, primarily consisting of social media links.
Editor760 (
talk) 17:44, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete I was taking a look at the sources mentioned in the prior discussion, and considering attempting to improve this, but the fact that the BLP vio existed since the articles creation, the poor quality of even the best sources in the prior discussion or previous versions of the article, and the fact that the subject requests deletion all push me towards delete. ~ ONUnicorn(
Talk|
Contribs)problem solving 18:21, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
*Weak keep - the subject didn't request deletion, just that her real name not be used. She uses her alias and photo on her social media so I don't think she's worried about those items being public. I just contacted Google since they indexed the version with her real name before we could revert it. I added some coverage - she was the #2 female YouTuber in the UK a few years back. That's enough for a weak keep. The question now is, do we leave this article up because it might be a magnet for personal info, or do we remove it to protect her from being doxxed? Tough choice but I think as long as she's notable enough, the benefit of compiling knowledge comes first.
TimTempleton(talk)(cont) 18:58, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Striking vote due to help desk request. IP address of request geolocates to subjects home area.
TimTempleton(talk)(cont) 20:59, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Someone claiming to be subject requested the article be deleted over IRC. I have not verified their identity, but I am taking their request at face value, and it was the same person as
Wikipedia:Help desk#Please help, Wikipedia doxed me. Being "a magnet for personal info" was part of their argument. —
The Earwig ⟨
talk⟩ 19:46, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete she's a low profile individual and imo not notable anyway but if WP really wants to deal with gender gaps and equity with women, we should start by listening to them when they ask to have articles deleted, especially when they are not major public figures.
CUPIDICAE💕 19:09, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete Not notable enough there would be hundreds of youtuber pages if this was notable enough which it is not. Also the page has many other problems. TigerScientistChat 18:52, 18 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was keep. ♠
PMC♠
(talk) 11:19, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The article's creator or other significant contributors should ideally be left a message at their talk page(s) informing them of the proposed deletion. This should be done by adding the ==
Proposed deletion of
Name of page ==
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your
edit summary or on
the article's talk page.
Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the
proposed deletion process, but other
deletion processes exist. In particular, the
speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and
articles for deletion allows discussion to reach
consensus for deletion. tag, or other appropriate text.
If you use the above template, you do not need to add a section header, as the template will do this for you. Twinkle has an option (which can be configured as the default in Twinkle preferences) to inform the page creator.[4] 7&6=thirteen (
☎) 17:28, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
7&6=thirteen, note that the article creator was blocked nearly four years ago for persistent sockpuppetry and creation of blatantly nonsense articles, so notification was probably a waste of time in this case.
Richard3120 (
talk) 01:55, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep No valid reason was given for deletion.
WP:IDON'TLIKEIT is not a valid reason. AFD is
WP:NOTCLEANUP.
DreamFocus 18:26, 12 February 2021 (UTC) added Keep vote and would like to also point out the article already has a reference proving this is a traditional folk song.
[19]DreamFocus 01:21, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
KeepBased on my initial research and addition of news sources to the article, it seems appropriate to keep and revise this article to focus on the Lubi-Lubi song, for which [because] independent and reliable sources appear to exist, and to consider merging the description of the game into another article if reliable sources can be found.Beccaynr (
talk) 21:44, 12 February 2021 (UTC) (updated due to
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus's contributions to the article and this discussion)reply
Comment Also, perhaps the title of the article can be updated to Lubi-Lubi (song) for greater clarity, because there are also Lubi-Lubi festivals.
Beccaynr (
talk) 01:50, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Weak keep. I concur that the nominator failed
WP:BEFORE (Google Books search for Bicol song "Lubi-Lubi" suggests some coverage of the topic in
[20],
[21],
[22],
[23] (that said, I could only get snippet views, so I am not 100% convinced the sources contain more than trivial mention of the topic, but one at least suggest the topic gets its own section/box). The article is nowhere near the shape bad enough for TNT although I couldn't find any references that a 'game' accompanying the song/dance actually exist. The nominator should be
WP:TROUTed for not presenting their analysis of sources (BEFORE). PS. I did some c/e, removing description of this as a game, it doesn't seem to be described as such. The article should be less confusing now. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 00:52, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge to an article on Filipino folk songs.
Oaktree b (
talk) 02:37, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep: Article needs a little expansion if ever. Other than that, it is good enough to pass
WP:GNG with the sources indicated above and in the article. ASTIG😎(
ICE T •
ICE CUBE) 16:00, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete. Sandstein 10:41, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete Don't see enough coverage in news and books. --
Yoonadue (
talk) 04:16, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Similar issues to
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tris Margetts. The overwhelming majority of the references are not reliable sources, including Facebook, Discogs, RateYourMusic, and other
social media or
user-generated sites. The book cited Bournemouth Rocks! : A Brief History of Rock Music in Bournemouth, Boscombe and Poole, 1960-1980 is by a
small local history press and is held in a grand total of
eight libraries according to Worldcat. This does not contribute much to the notability of the band. The only generally-accepted RS that covers this band, AllMusic, has a
one paragraph stub. The remaining RS's are about notable band
Emerson, Lake & Palmer, with whom some members recorded, but notability is
WP:NOTINHERITED Despite copious
WP:REFBOMBing, the evidence is not enough to pass
WP:NMUSIC or
WP:GNG.
Eggishorn(talk)(contrib) 16:10, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep easily notable with releases on major labels such as EMI
as shown here and Capitol Records passing
WP:NMUSIC criteria 5 (only one criteria needed) and with significant coverage such as album reviews in Billboard and Melody Maker. Yes there are many unreliable sources such as discogs that need replacing but that is no reason to take the easy deletion route and ignore the reliable sources and the notability of the band, imv
Atlantic306 (
talk) 01:09, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep. Included in The Encyclopedia of Popular Music. Major label albums petty much guarantees that enough coverage will exist to satisfy even the most ardent GNG-wonk. --
Michig (
talk) 20:24, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep - The nominator is correct about the article's reliance on unreliable social media sources, but that is a matter of
cleaning up rather than deleting. The article needs to be significantly reduced to eliminate excessive
fancruft informed by that same social media chatter. But it can be narrowed down to basic facts supported by some reliable sources on 70s progressive rock, as located by the previous voters. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (
TALK|
CONTRIBS) 16:10, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was keep. ♠
PMC♠
(talk) 11:19, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment Degree-awarding institutes in India are typically presumed notable; 'schooloutcomes' touches on this more broadly.
Zindor (
talk) 19:46, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep This is a degree-awarding,
GGSIPU affiliated college (
see here for latest proof) that enrols thousands of students each year.
WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES point number 2 suggests that online coverage for such institutions may not readily be available online.
Dial911 (
talk) 19:08, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keepaccredited school, although sources light, it meets guidelines.
Expertwikiguy (
talk) 03:05, 19 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete.
Daniel (
talk) 01:10, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete – Looks slightly better than
Plextek RF Integration so it took more time to read it and check the sources, but there's still nothing here but self-announcement and a basic business offerings broschure. —
JohnFromPinckney (
talk) 21:13, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete - I agree with both of the users above, NCORP notability not established
Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 22:39, 19 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete.
Daniel (
talk) 01:09, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
This has been tagged for years and years; it's little more than a directory-style entry with a history of COI edits and link spam. Nothing much can be found on this outfit, besides a few mentions in Amnesty International and HRW and, of course, press releases. The best thing I found was
this, an *ahem* somewhat biased opinion piece that inflates the organization, in a non-notable publication which is spammed for in our article on a publishing outfit,
Pulsamerica.
Drmies (
talk) 15:44, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete, the article does not meet
WP:NGO. The organization is active on the international level, however I could not find "significant coverage in multiple reliable sources that are independent of the organization."
JimRenge (
talk) 20:44, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete per JimRenge and nom.
Feoffer (
talk) 03:04, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete. They have been described as "One of the world's leading human rights groups"
here, although I am not sure how reliable the source is (low key academic journal? But it's called '
News Weekly'... I can't find much about the author, 'Peter Westmore'). Whatever this is (an article or a news piece) I also failed to gain access to it. Other than that I see some mentions in passing, some citations to their work, and that's it. I couldn't find any discussion of the organizaton's history or significance, not even a sentence-long one, outside
WP:PRIMARY sources. As such, it seems that this NGO fails
WP:NORG/GNG requirement. PS. A bit more digging and I found the source I mentioned mirrored
here, but it seems like a low key news piece in a minor Australian magazine. (Also, the article doesn't provide in-depth analysis of the organization outside a few superlatives, and quotes an otherwise unnamed "HRWF’s Internet consultant" a lot, which makes it not very independent (it's really is on the level of a rewritten press release, just from NGO, not the more common a for-profit spam variety). Anyway, I guess it is probably the best source we have, but still not enough in light of our source requirements. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 08:20, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete.
Daniel (
talk) 01:09, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete – fails NCORP even in the pre-removal version. Basically a "Web-presence" page for a NN company. —
JohnFromPinckney (
talk) 21:06, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete as per nom. fails NCORP.
Niceguylucky (
talk) 09:00, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete - NCORP requires multiple reliable sources examining the company in detail and addressing it directly; this simply is not the case here
Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 12:40, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Delete Non-notable political candidate.
Oaktree b (
talk) 16:47, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete. People are not automatically notable enough for inclusion in Wikipedia just because they ran as candidates in elections they did not win — no, not even at the presidential level — but this doesn't even try to claim any preexisting notability for other reasons independently of the candidacy, and even the candidacy itself is "referenced" solely to a directory entry rather than any evidence of notability-supporting media coverage in
reliable sources.
Bearcat (
talk) 17:34, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep, the sources dug up by Soman show that this person served in the Beninese
National Assembly, and therefore he passes NPOL.
Devonian Wombat (
talk) 12:24, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep Passes NPOL as deputy in National Assembly. -
Indy beetle (
talk) 06:08, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep passes
WP:NPOL as a member of the Beninese National Assembly. I note to the closer that after those sources appeared showing the subject was a member of the Assembly, no votes of delete have been added. --
Enos733 (
talk) 18:25, 19 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Delete non-notable company that fails
WP:NCORP, likely product of COI/UPE. Also suggest looking into
Plextek and
Plextek RF Integration, both of which seem to fail NCORP as well, created or heavily edited by the same author and part of the same group of companies.
ProcrastinatingReader (
talk) 15:41, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete – Nothing interesting to see here (except level 1 heading misuse). Just a basic business offerings broschure; nobody outside the company cares about it. —
JohnFromPinckney (
talk) 21:18, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete - fails our high standards for companies, found at NCORP
Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 19:14, 18 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Etzedek24, wasn't he a bench player for most of his career? i hardly find that notable.
New3400 (
talk) 17:13, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
He started a few games for the Chiefs, per his PFR page. Regardless,
WP:NGRIDIRON is clear: American football/Canadian football players and head coaches are presumed notable if they have appeared in at least one regular season or post-season game in any one of the following professional leagues: the Arena Football League, the Canadian Football League, the National Football League, the 1960s American Football League, the All-America Football Conference, the United States Football League. He clearly satisfies the relevant notability guideline, it's just a matter of improving his article. I might suggest
withdrawing this as to quickly resolve the issue since he clearly satisfies NGRIDIRON.
Etzedek24(
I'll talk at ya) (
Check my track record) 17:29, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep overwhelmingly passes
WP:NGRIDIRON - ProFootballReference shows that he appeared in 44 professional games in the National Football League over five seasons.--
Paul McDonald (
talk) 19:12, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep Meets
WP:NGRIDIRON. It's true that what's in the article doesn't appear to pass
WP:GNG, but I find it hard to believe additional sources aren't out there.
Papaursa (
talk) 23:51, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep 5-year NFL veterans don't belong at AfD.
LEPRICAVARK (
talk) 17:13, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was keep.
Daniel (
talk) 01:08, 20 February 2021 (UTC)procedural close. A number of the participants below have since been blocked for
abusing multiple accounts, so vacating my close to allow an immediate re-nomination given the original discussion was not clean. Thanks,
Daniel (
talk) 22:22, 14 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Beining on a couple of dirty dozen pages doesn't seem the basis on which to base a blp. Nothing else here that comes close to a gng or ent pass and blp should be better than this. Awards are no longer a free pass to notability.
SpartazHumbug! 14:30, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep I believe she's actually notable. The CNBC reference lists her as one of the most popular porn stars of 2013. She's also interviewed in
Pornography Feminism, which is explicit but also includes biographical information during an interview. She's also been the subject of multiple, if small, independent news stories, as well as having been quoted. For
example. She was notable enough where she was a face of the industry to the media outside of it.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk) 16:09, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep I agree with ScottishFinnishRadish, she does appear to be notable in her field. She also had some newspaper coverage after an appearance in Australia (
1,
2,
3) one (the first link provided) even went as far to call her "one of the world's most famous porn stars." So that along with the CNBC article, there are independent sources outside of the porn industry implying notability and enough non-trivial coverage to pass the GNG in my opinion.
GoldenAgeFan1 (
talk) 18:25, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep Subject seems to passes GNG.
Niceguylucky (
talk) 09:02, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep Sources clearly establish her notability as a notable porn star.
Fatzaof (
talk) 18:18, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete The sourcing is not nearly at the level to pass the actual criteria of GNG. Interviews never count towards passing GNG.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 17:23, 17 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete.
Daniel (
talk) 01:07, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete subject's only notability derives from playing in a single cricket match. While that it enough to get over the extremely low bar of the relevant subject-specific notability guideline, the subject also has to pass the GNG, and it's very unlikely that they got that much coverage from one cricket match. Hut 8.5 12:42, 19 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete.
Daniel (
talk) 01:07, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete subject's only notability derives from playing in a single cricket match. While that is enough to get over the extremely low bar of the relevant subject-specific notability guideline, the subject also has to pass the GNG, and it's very unlikely that they got that much coverage from one cricket match. Nor will it be possible to expand the article from its current very short state. Hut 8.5 12:47, 19 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Delete. A thoroughgoing failure of all notability guidelines and rules.
RobinCarmody (
talk) 20:48, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete. Fails NCRIC due to not having played at the highest domestic level – irrespective of the status afforded matches, playing for one of the minor counties does not meet this standard; in addition Cade's solitary LA match was against a cricket board side, further confirming the lower standard of the match. More importantly this also fails GNG, with no significant coverage found (only passing mentions in local routine cricket reports, and inclusion in the usual wide-ranging databases) and no reason to expect that any exists. wjematherplease leave a message... 11:57, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete. No prejudice to revisiting in the future if more (
reliable) sources are uncovered that demonstrate passing of
WP:GNG.
TheSandDoctorTalk 14:47, 19 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete. A wholly non-notable figure in the context of Wikipedia.
RobinCarmody (
talk) 20:45, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment. More likely to be notable for his extensive minor counties career than 2 LA matches (NOTE: none of these matches meet the "highest domestic level" standard defined by NCRIC); article refocussed accordingly. Any significant coverage is likely to be in offline sources. wjematherplease leave a message... 12:24, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Delete. Non notable cricketer
Rondolinda (
talk) 23:24, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete another in a long line of non-notable cricket players.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 19:54, 17 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Delete. Wholly non-notable; even on a specialist Fandom site he would only merit a cursory mention.
RobinCarmody (
talk) 20:44, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete. Non-notable cricketer. Doesn't meet general notability guidelines.
Rondolinda (
talk) 23:25, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete - Did not play at a high enough level to meet notability.
Dunarc (
talk) 21:37, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete non notable --
Devokewater 10:01, 18 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Delete, a search brought up nothing that would contribute to a GNG pass.
Devonian Wombat (
talk) 12:19, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Delete. I didn't found sufficient coverage that makes him notable. Doesn't meet general notability guidelines.
Rondolinda (
talk) 23:27, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete. Nothing but passing mentions at junior/youth level (e.g. school & university cricket reports), and inclusion in wide ranging databases. Solitary appearance in a F-C match (with little involvement) is not enough to suggest significant coverage exists. Fails GNG. wjematherplease leave a message... 11:48, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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PROD concern was Does not meet
WP:NFILM or
WP:GNG. While
this might look like a good source, it is clearly marked as a press release. This film received no significant coverage or published reviews. The awards received are not major enough to satisfy criterion 3 of NFILM. and was endorsed by
User:Donaldd23 and
User:Kolma8.
PROD removed without providing a reason nor addressing any of the NFILM or GNG concerns presented.
Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 14:13, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete as it fails both GNG and NFILM. I have researched the received awards, IMO, those are not major. That + no significant coverage means fails WP criteria for a stand alone article.
Kolma8 (
talk) 17:27, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
wEAk sPEedY deLeTE per kolma8.--
Alcremie (
talk) 07:47, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete.
BD2412T 06:42, 24 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete another in a long line of non-notable cricket players.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 21:20, 5 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment Remember the good old days when AfD debates such as the original for this article were populated by people who cared for the cricket project? Of course not, nobody who sends cricket articles for deletion in those days was around back then when they could easily have been finding sources for themselves.
Bobo. 21:33, 5 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Daniel (
talk) 14:06, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete. I didn't found sufficient coverage that makes him notable. Doesn't meet general notability guidelines.
Rondolinda (
talk) 23:38, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Weak Delete as notability is not evident.
Bobo192 makes a curious point in reference to
the original AfD over 10 years ago, and although there was a slight keep pile-on back then, I don't see any evidence that notability has been established in the time passed. Although observing the guidelines set out per
WP:CRIN, I don't see how this article could be developed or determine the subject as being notable. Bungle(
talk •
contribs) 10:16, 21 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The odd thing is that, unlike many others which have been put forward for deletion, this player has played within (most of) our lifetimes. I wonder if this makes it more possible that print sources are available to those who have access to archives. I mean this in the nicest way possible, but of all the articles put up to AfD, this is probably the least appropriate player to make this argument for. This guy has played within our lifetimes.
Bobo. 11:01, 21 February 2021 (UTC)reply
It isn't totally out of the question that print/book sources may exist, but simply
assuming they do doesn't mean they do. I vote weakly as I take the points mentioned that there is a "possibility" that notability may be there, but it isn't proven and there is no evidence based on available material. Bungle(
talk •
contribs) 11:18, 21 February 2021 (UTC)reply
I will continue to make this argument however many people throw arguments against WP:PRESUME or others at me.
Bobo. 11:26, 21 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment I forgot to make this comment all that time ago, but at least a "Players by team" article exists for this time.
Bobo. 11:26, 21 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete Maybe instead of lamenting that no editor has added sources since the nomination we should remark that no editor has added one single significant reference in the >9.5 years since this was nominated the first time. For that little effort, there's nothing worth
WP:PRESERVEing. One reference to a bare database entry fulfills neither
WP:NCRIC nor
WP:GNG.
Eggishorn(talk)(contrib) 22:50, 23 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was no consensus.
Daniel (
talk) 22:49, 19 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The article does not meet
WP:GNG,
WP:ORG and the
WP:SIRS required for an private organization. Couldn't find a single independent significant RS coverage let alone multiple required for notability. The article was deprodded by the creator.
Roller26 (
talk) 19:29, 29 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 16:04, 5 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Daniel (
talk) 14:03, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was Redirect to
A-Reece. The only "delete" vote was expressed weakly and the sole "keep" noted contentious sources. Article history will remain if better sources can be found. (
non-admin closure) Bungle(
talk •
contribs) 19:10, 19 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep: The sources indicated in the previous AfD are reliable. Too bad no one bothered to improve the article and add them after the previous AfD was closed. I also found a couple more reliable sources which talk about the album:
[24] and
[25]. It's also discussed in this
listicle. That said, the article is good enough to pass
WP:NALBUM. ASTIG😎(
ICE T •
ICE CUBE) 16:00, 1 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Your first source is a four-line introduction to a link to stream the album, the second is a collective blog that doesn't pass WP:RS. Of the sources in the previous AfD, Unorthodox Reviews is also a blog... I'm not sure about the other two at the moment.
Richard3120 (
talk) 14:57, 2 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Daniel (
talk) 14:02, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Redirect to
A-Reece#Discography. The sources are unreliable, there is no significant coverage in multiple reliable independent sources, plus no chartings, certifications, or accolades. Clearly fails
WP:NALBUMS. --
Ashleyyoursmile! 12:04, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Redirect to
A-Reece. Sources are unreliable. Not much information for a standalone article. If this page is re-created, then it should be protected.
HĐ (
talk) 13:24, 17 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete.
Daniel (
talk) 01:06, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Currently only sourced with primary sourcing, no in-depth coverage. Searches did not turn up anything either.
Onel5969TT me 13:07, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete - Good luck to him as he gets started, but he has not yet progressed beyond minor promotions created by himself or his management, who are the only parties calling him a "leading" voice of his generation. Wait for someone else to say it first. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (
TALK|
CONTRIBS) 16:23, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep He is called as a "leading voices among Ethiopia’s emerging generation" by non Ethiopian owned media,
coca-cola.co.ug. There is no ground to say it is "created by himself or his management". It is better to have a discussion regarding to the
WP:Policy. -
YitbeA-21 06:30, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The CocaCola site is just advertising, not music journalism. Note all the
puffery like "hit maker" (with no evidence of reaching any official charts}, "heartthrob", "eye-catching", "much anticipated" album (with no news sources mentioning such anticipation or that the album is even in production), or "accolades" (from a little-known awards ceremony). None of that adds up to "leading". ---DOOMSDAYER520 (
TALK|
CONTRIBS) 15:25, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete The only coverage of him seems to be in advertising. -
Indy beetle (
talk) 06:10, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Article is being repeatedly redirected and restored. Listing for consensus on whether this should be kept as a BLP or redirected noting
WP:INHERIT. Is the father if Britney Spears independently notable given appearance in recent news events? Polyamorph (
talk) 13:00, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Redirect - notability is not inherited, and there is nothing that is not based on his relationship with his daughter. After redirection, protect from recreation.
Onel5969TT me 13:48, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep for now I would have agreed with the above until quite recently, but he seems to have become a public figure in his own right because of the controversy about the conservatorship, which has resulted in the public spotlight becoming focused on him as an individual. (See any news search for his name today.) If this turns out to be wrong, the article can always be re-merged into the
Britney Spears article. --
The Anome (
talk) 14:27, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Redirect and protect redirect this to
Britney Spears because he's not notable enough to receive his own article and inherits much of notability from his daughter and events around the two.
ₛₒₘₑBₒdyₐₙyBₒdy₀₅ (
talk) 14:30, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Redirect The sole narrative of
WP:SIGCOV of this individual is in the context of his daughter's estate. This is in the spirit of
WP:BLP1E, if not the literal interpretation. I don't find any significant coverage of him otherwise. If there is future coverage that is not just about Britney or the conservatorship, the redirect can easily be reverted and a proper
biography filled in.
Schazjmd(talk) 16:21, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
comment having seen Lowellian's suggestion, I don't have a strong opinion on whether it should redirect to Britney or Jamie Lynn. I don't know if most readers would be searching for the father (
WP:RECENTISM) or the daughter when searching for "jamie spears".
Schazjmd(talk) 00:32, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Redirect to
Jamie Lynn Spears, notBritney Spears.Jamie Lynn Spears is more notable than her father, and "Jamie Spears" in public discourse commonly referred to her until recent news, and the father should not be overemphasized due to
WP:RECENTISM. We can then add a hatlink to the
Jamie Lynn Spears article pointing to
Britney Spears for those looking for the father's conservatorship role. —
Lowellian (
reply) 00:22, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Redirect to
Jamie Lynn Spears per above; once the buzz around the documentary dies down this should be far more clear-cut a decision.
Gnomingstuff (
talk) 05:54, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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non-notable game, release is nearly a year away, hasn't received any coverage (and no, reddit hype doesn't count)
CUPIDICAE💕 11:43, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete No significant coverage at this time, and the prose reads like a promotional press release outlining upcoming seasons. Even if kept it would need significant cleanup.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk) 16:07, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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This page could easily be merged into the Future Nostalgia article, as it does not have enough information to stand on its own. Due Lipa's
first album has various editions, too, including a re-issue called Complete Edition, and we also didn't make a separate article for that version of the album.
Sricsi (
talk) 08:36, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
As per how it stands right now, Delete. If there are more reliable sources that can establish the notability of the article in the future, yeah. But right now it looks like redundancy. — Tom(T2ME) 09:58, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete and redirect - this has been created
WP:TOOSOON and speculatively. There are tonnes of albums that have re-releases. Future Nostalgia has many re-releases but there is not enough information to ascertain that this version of the album is going to get 'x' amount of coverage to warrant an independent article. If in the end, the chart positions and sales are counted towards a single listing for Future Nostalgia, then absolutely a separate article is not warranted. ≫
Lil-Unique1-{
Talk }- 10:35, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge - it's a plausible search term, but otherwise, we generally just cover deluxe edition re-releases within the already existing album article. No need for a split.
Sergecross73msg me 18:53, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge and redirect to
Future Nostalgia - I would have assumed this would pass the notability threshold with album reviews, but as it currently stands, this should be merged into the main article (
WP:CRYSTALBALL,
WP:TOOSOON).--NØ 13:25, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge and redirect per above. It's just a reissue. There is no article for Lipa's Dua Lipa: Complete Edition for example. --
Kuatrero (
talk) 01:18, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge and redirect to Future Nostalgia per above. Maybe it will gain notability in the future.
LOVI33 17:29, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge and redirect to Future Nostalgia for reasons listed above. As well, I’d like it if there was a section in the article dedicated to the moonlight edition, with its own Infobox and everything. That would save a lot of confusion with the main Infobox. D💘ggy54321(
xoxo😘) 20:40, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
^ Since the decision is quite clear, can we close this early? --
Sricsi (
talk) 20:50, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
As much as I want to close this (non-admin closure), I think those who voted could not close. Pinging some coordinators could help.
HĐ (
talk) 06:08, 17 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Given an overwhelming consensus to merge/redirect, I shall close this as a non-admin as it is not controversial at all. Just notice the AFD needs seven days before proceeding. Let's wait.
HĐ (
talk) 03:33, 19 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Keep Possibly a bad nomination, has appeared in several shows. -
Cupper52Discuss! 09:24, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep, another one that meets
WP:NACTOR as Bhowmik has had significant roles in multiple notable films.
Coolabahapple (
talk) 12:38, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Keep I have made revisions and added more sources to this article, and per
WP:NACTOR, Chakraborty "Has had significant roles in multiple notable films," including but not limited to her role as Satyabati in Anjan Dutt's film adaptations of Byomkesh Bakshi, and she has a significant role in the television show Sreemoyee. Based on the sources that were in the article and the ones I have added, Chakraborty appears to meet
WP:GNG; the news coverage over the past decade also extends beyond her acting career and includes her academic studies and personal/political/family life; it also appears that additional sources are likely to exist, per
WP:NEXIST.
Beccaynr (
talk) 17:28, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep per rescue described above,
Sadads (
talk) 14:37, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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The result was redirect to
Media portrayals of bisexuality. Consensus is against keeping. It's up to editors to determine whether and what to merge. Sandstein 10:47, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Completely redundant to other articles (
WP:REDUNDANTFORK), especially
Media portrayals of bisexuality and
List of fictional bisexual characters (and its sublists) which are much more sourced than this is. This is a complete mess, being almost entirely unsourced and made up of original research (probably
slashfic/fanfiction-type wishful thinking behind more than a few of the entries that have accreted over the years; actual quote from one entry: "Bisexuality simple fact") and has been tagged for OR and lack of sources for over 5 years. Of the very few that are sourced, many are from unreliable sources. It would need
WP:TNT even if it were a valid topic, which it's not since, as I said, this is completely covered better by many other articles. Crossroads-talk- 06:41, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom; low-quality and entirely redundant. (Unrelated, boy is that a lot of discussion categories.)
Vaticidalprophet (
talk) 07:59, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Kolma8, that is why I am proposing it be merged with the
List of fictional bisexual characters page. I think there is value in the entries, but I also don't want duplication either. Kolma8, I also agree with your suggestion to change the page into a redirect if the merger with the
List of fictional bisexual characters is not possible.
Historyday01 (
talk) 16:57, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep: Article meets WP:CLN WP:AOAL as a navigation list. Article is too large to fit well into another article and will certainly grow. //
Timothy ::
talk 08:22, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The problem is that we already have such a list at
List of fictional bisexual characters, which sends readers to many sublists as well. Those pages actually have been trying to exercise quality control. This is therefore a crappy fork. "Growing" is the problem here. This unsourced junk shouldn't be fit anywhere (the aforementioned list articles are made up of sublists). Crossroads-talk- 17:02, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge. I agree with the argument by Timothy Blue more than the argument by Vaticidalprophet, as I would not say it is "low-quality and entirely redundant." However, I would say it shares a lot with the
List of fictional bisexual characters page, so I would propose that it be merged with that page.
Historyday01 (
talk) 14:03, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The entries that are not reliably sourced should not be copied anywhere but deleted, per
WP:BURDEN and
WP:NOR. I know for a fact that many of them are false with no sources for them; I already deleted one as an example. Some of the entries here are
WP:PRIMARY sourced, which is also bad because OR is often involved in interpreting the primary source. Crossroads-talk- 17:02, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
I have already copied them to a sandbox, as I was planning to go through them all, but I'm really only talking about the reliably-sourced entries here and think they could easily be merged with the
List of fictional bisexual characters and turned into a redirect to that page.
Historyday01 (
talk) 17:09, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Just be sure that the only ones kept are the ones that reliable sources identify as definitely and canonically bisexual. A source talking about fan speculation or saying 'we want them to be' is not enough. Crossroads-talk- 19:41, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
For sure. Today I moved all the reliable sourced entries to the
List of fictional bisexual characters and newly created
List of bisexual characters in television page, while all the other entries are sitting in one of my sandboxes and I'm going through them one by one, adding them (if there is a reliable source) to the appropriate list page. That's my plan at least. --
Historyday01 (
talk) 19:55, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete or merge as complicated, and I'm referring to the video game portion. A list like this is very debatable; in a lot of these games, the choice is optional. In some video games, like those choose-your-own-adventure games on mobile devices, they give you the option of being in a relationship with either man or woman because they have no way to determine either what your gender or preference is. In these cases, it would be the player being bisexual, not the character or game.
Panini🥪 14:28, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete –
WP:OR magnet. Some of the listed items are clearly under LGBTQ umbrella, but listing them bi on the basis of some OR (as in: not a reference in sight) claiming that the characters are portrayed fluid... as if. --
Francis Schonken (
talk) 15:34, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge and clean-up I honestly think the list article is better than
Media portrayals of bisexuality, and the list should be kept with the other article merged into it (refs specifically, where available). It needs some clean-up, but it's valuable; indeed, it is more valuable than the not-list article, which is mostly a prose list without any clear encyclopedic discussion of the portrayals and different importance given to certain characters/shows that seems to come from editor bias of their favorites. I.e. just having the list is serving the same function and much more NPOV. I also think the list serves a distinct purpose to the
List of fictional bisexual characters - that list is of characters that either self-identify as bisexual or have been identified by outside parties to be bisexual, while the portrayals list is broader to include portrayals of bisexual identification as well as non-identified bisexual behavior and various fictional bisexual characters, i.e. those (especially in old works and recent "woke" works) that don't use labels but are clearly still important representation. It needs clean-up; everything without a ref should at least be hidden for now, and "fluid" is a dubious category. But it's the better article of the "media portrayals of" ones.
Kingsif (
talk) 18:02, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
I have to disagree on that point. I would say that it would be better to move the entries on the existing list which have reliable sources in the
List of fictional bisexual characters, then turn the page into a redirect. As for the
Media portrayals of bisexuality page, it clearly needs work and that is going to be one of the next pages I'm going to try and improve, section by section.
Historyday01 (
talk) 18:05, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
No. Bisexual characters and media portrayals of bisexuality are distinct categories, did you not manage to comprehend my comment? If any of the three should be deleted, it should be
Media portrayals of bisexuality. It's a NPOV nightmare that has no more useful content than the list, and is much harder to read. Since it's much easier to make and keep the list clean, that's what should be done, no questions. You're right we don't need all three, and the lists are more valuable, but distinct enough to keep both.
Kingsif (
talk) 18:13, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
I did read your comment. I agree with you that "Bisexual characters and media portrayals of bisexuality are distinct categories" which is why I would argue that the
Media portrayals of bisexuality should be kept (albeit thoroughly cleaned up to be much better, so it isn't a "NPOV nightmare" as you point out), while the
List of media portrayals of bisexuality can be turned into a redirect to the
List of fictional bisexual characters page after all the entries with reliable sources are moved from the main page. This would reduce redundancy between the two pages. And the fact that the unsourced entries won't be there anymore shouldn't be a concern, as I've already copied all of that to a sandbox and am planning on going through every entry, adding a source (if there is one), then adding it to the
List of fictional bisexual characters or any other relevant page. I'd further say that the
List of fictional bisexual characters and
Media portrayals of bisexuality pages have value, although the latter is couched by what I said earlier. I agree with you that the lists are valuable, but I'd also say that analysis pages, when done right, can be valuable too.
Historyday01 (
talk) 18:21, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
I agree with you on I think everything in this comment.
Kingsif (
talk) 20:39, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
I don't see how media portrayals are meaningfully different from characters. Portrayals of bisexuality are portrayals of bisexual (behaviorally) characters. We need RS identifying the characters as bisexual/engaging in bisexuality regardless of exact title. The better one's lead can be modified if needed; however, the sourcing standard has to be the same no matter the title, and "non-identified bisexual behavior" is an invitation to commit OR because some fans see almost anything as bisexual behavior. My main point is that we don't need or want two 'lists of bisexuality in fiction', and the one that should be deleted is the one that is mostly OR. As for the prose "media portrayals" page, whatever work that needs is a separate matter. Crossroads-talk- 19:41, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
I can agree with you that the media portrayals page needs work, but I would say that rather than deleting the list, it should be turned into a redirect to the
List of fictional bisexual characters page.
Historyday01 (
talk) 19:50, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
we don't need or want two 'lists of bisexuality in fiction' - then merge them into different lists in the same article, with clear referencing needs and an appropriately broad title. the prose "media portrayals" page, whatever work that needs is a separate matter - it's not a separate matter since it's nothing more than a prose, NPOV, version of the list. If you want to argue the list is pointless, so is the prose article; if it isn't, then one of them is redundant. Some form of merging, no deleting, is necessary and the clear solution, and obviously everything needs references to avoid fanwank and OR - nobody is disputing that. But I highly question your knowledge of anything relating to queer media if you genuinely don't see how media portrayals are meaningfully different from characters. Characters are, in the material, identified explicitly with a label. The label of bisexual is recent, to the last few decades. Yet there are many works of fiction before then with characters which portray bisexuality and are important representation. It's also possible to have characters that explicitly aren't bisexual and still portray bisexuality; take homosexual characters that had heterosexual relationships before coming out. The two are distinct, and both significant.
Kingsif (
talk) 20:27, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
My "knowledge of anything relating to queer media" says that when it comes to "many works of fiction before then with characters which portray bisexuality", if there are sources so identifying them, the same entry can be put in the other list(s). It's the same thing as is done for real historical persons. If the character/person was not called "bisexual" in their own time, but is now considered so by the sources, then it counts. As for the latter example, there of course still needs sources calling that bisexuality (which may not be done in some such scenarios for the reason that it contradicts their true orientation), so we're again back in the same spot - it can go in the other list as a (behaviorally) bisexual character. A media portrayal of bisexuality is a bisexual character, even if how they ended up on the relevant list isn't from saying "I'm bisexual" but from consistently being identified as such by reliable sources. That's already how the other list works. Crossroads-talk- 05:03, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
I will say, on a related note, that I am currently working on completely revamping the
Media portrayals of bisexuality page and will be done in a couple days. I'm trying to base it around either GLAAD reports or other sources which mention important bisexuals, rather than the current format. I'm planning on doing the same thing for the
Media portrayal of lesbianism page and the
Media portrayals of transgender people page too. Just have to do one page at a time.
Historyday01 (
talk) 06:08, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
So, Crossroads, what you want is actually a merge. The List of bisexual characters currently explicitly excludes those that are not labeled bisexual, even with sources. So my suggestion to create different lists in the same article with a broader title (the "portrayals of bisexuality" would be suitably broad for both, in fact) for all the sourced entries is actually what you seem to want. You're still infuriatingly mistaken by saying A media portrayal of bisexuality is a bisexual character. No, no it isn't. And that incorrect assumption will be perpetuated if editors like you insist on conflating them in lists.
Kingsif (
talk) 06:24, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
I agree with Kingsif on that point. A media portrayal is not necessarily a character. There can be bisexual series, music, film, etc. That is the limit of a page only focused on characters.
Historyday01 (
talk) 14:09, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
List of fictional bisexual characters opens by saying, This is a list of fictional characters that either self-identify as bisexual or have been identified by outside parties to be bisexual. (emphasis added). I don't see how it excludes anything. And despite any possible difference in the names, this is a de facto character list anyway. The concept of a "bisexual series" and the like seems very fuzzy and like an OR magnet, and I consider it unlikely there are sources that call a series but none of its characters bisexual, but if that did occur that can be discussed in the prose "media portrayals" article. Crossroads-talk- 19:34, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The fictional characters list only includes fictional characters. In terms of a bisexual series, there would need to be reliable sourcing that such a series is out there, which I imagine exists. I'm saying that bisexual representation goes beyond just the characters. The characters list is fine, but there is also a place for a analysis page too which shows how that representation changes over time.
Historyday01 (
talk) 20:21, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete Per
WP:INDISCRIMINATE. At this point it's the same as listing "media portrayals of coffee shops", in other words it appears too often for a list to be necessary. It's also far too much of a magnet for original research as opposed to actual confirmed bisexual characters.ZXCVBNM (
TALK) 23:32, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
But, Zxcvbnm, would you support turning the page into a redirect to the
List of fictional bisexual characters page? I think this page largely duplicates that one, at least in subject, since it has "actual confirmed bisexual characters" and is not indiscriminate.
Historyday01 (
talk) 23:48, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The names are like apples and oranges; a redirect seems totally unnecessary, if not confusing.ZXCVBNM (
TALK) 10:37, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment Also note that even though Historyday says they have moved all sourced entries to
List of fictional bisexual characters, this list does not include any characters from comics, podcasts, television, and other media. It's incomplete, so even if people can't get their head around the fact portrayal of bisexuality is not the same as a bisexual character (first example to come to mind: Kissing Jessica Stein is a movie about a woman trying to work out if she's bisexual and decides she isn't, but it's certainly bisexual canon), a merge at least is damn necessary.
Kingsif (
talk) 22:48, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Comics and podcasts, the few that are reliably sourced, can still just go in
List of fictional bisexual characters (also, those podcasts appear to be non-notable and primary-sourced; don't we avoid listing non-notable media because pretty soon you end up listing random personal webpages?). There's also
List of graphic art works with LGBT characters, which isn't bisexual-specific and needs work, but does cover the comics topic. Television is absolutely covered at
List of bisexual characters in television, which was probably size-split from the general list in the past and is linked from the lead. Kissing Jessica Stein can go in
Media portrayals of bisexuality (it's in the current list as depicting "fluid" bisexuality, which is of course unsourced). Crossroads-talk- 23:20, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Kingsif, let me say that the List of fictional bisexual characters does have sections for "graphic novels" and "webcomics," which I would say comprises comics. As for podcasts, they are currently on the
List of LGBT characters in radio and podcasts page (split from the aforementioned list page), with other LGBTQ characters, and the television characters are on their own specific page (
List of bisexual characters in television), as are anime (
List of bisexual characters in anime) and Western animation characters (
List of bisexual characters in animation). But, yes, you are right that the fictional bisexual characters page is "incomplete" in the way you pointed out, and a merge makes sense. So, Crossroads, comics can definitely be incorporated into the List of fictional bisexual characters, while podcasts can go into the page I previously mentioned. And yes, there is a
List of graphic art works with LGBT characters which definitely "needs work," and I'd like to also mention the
List of webcomics with LGBT characters too, which includes bisexual and other LGBTQ characters. So, yes, you are right that "television is absolutely covered at
List of bisexual characters in television." And yes, it was "size-split from the general list" (originally from a page titled "LGBT characters in television and radio" (now called the "List of LGBT characters in radio and podcasts"). But, sure Kissing Jessica Stein can go in
Media portrayals of bisexuality, but it is an example of something which is a portrayal which isn't a character. And again, sourcing of these pages is important.
Historyday01 (
talk) 23:49, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
So, there's a lot of articles that probably need a MAIN or some navigation template, and a lot of clean-up, and just proposing to delete one of them is no help at all. If Historyday has copied all the current text into a draft (if not, I will) then we can at least start moving and merging, pruning examples. Nobody here wants to keep all the unsourced "fluid" or "fans interpret" examples, but there's enough good material to fix. It wouldn't even need TNT because it's a list. You can hide items so easily while working on it.
Kingsif (
talk) 00:49, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The title/concept is redundant and the content is unacceptable. That's why it's been nominated. Most (perhaps all) of the would-be legit entries are already covered better in the good lists, and the rest can be. Crossroads-talk- 02:10, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
@
Kingsif, I have actually moved all the text, apart from some entries I already moved to other pages, into
a sandbox for now, so examples can be pruned there as you put it.
Historyday01 (
talk) 15:13, 19 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
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There are three articles on this topic, this one in mainspace and two in drafts:
Draft:Titoo - Har Jawab Ka Sawal Hu and
Draft:Titoo – Har Jawaab Ka Sawaal Hu. This article should be deleted, it's a substub and not ready for mainspace, this will make way for the more developed of the two draft articles to be moved; the other draft should be deleted. //
Timothy ::
talk 06:40, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment Redirects and copy/paste content moves have been created. It appears the article history is
here, its behind a acouple of redirects. //
Timothy ::
talk 10:43, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Reply: Yes, I think the original page history is here
[26] from Nov 2020. I don't think the subject is notable (at this time), coverage all looks promo, so deleting/redirecting it all might be the consensus. Hope the closing admin has a good mop. //
Timothy ::
talk 20:28, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete all mainspace versions. This sort of duplication of draft content is unseemly, and the topic has not yet been demonstrated to be notable.
BD2412T 06:37, 24 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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The result was no consensus - no prejudice against filing another AfD. Basically, the points made between everyone cancel each other out. I don't think there's going to be an agreement on this one.
Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 11:46, 22 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Minimal, announcement-oriented coverage in reliable sources. The NYT coverage is actually VentureBeat. Nearly everything cited is a routine business announcement or not a reliable source, and the article only documents the company's existence. Fails to meet
WP:NCORP.
FalconK (
talk) 05:44, 19 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Northern Escapee (
talk) 06:27, 27 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Note to closer for soft deletion: This nomination has had limited participation and falls within the standards set for
lack of quorum. There are no previous AfD discussions, undeletions, or current redirects and no previous PRODs have been located. This nomination may be eligible for
soft deletion at the end of its 7-day listing. --
Cewbot (
talk) 00:02, 4 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Eddie891TalkWork 18:38, 4 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent
reliable sources.
The article includes criticism of the company: "HealthTap requires only that its physicians be licensed in the United States and in good standing — that is, not accused of malfeasance. Lamentably, it does not use board certification to establish a floor for qualifications required for physicians to participate. ... Another worrisome aspect is the breeziness of HealthTap’s answers, which are limited to 400 characters, a length hardly well-suited for providing nuanced answers to some medical questions. ... Dr. Peter W. Carmel, president of the American Medical Association, says he is concerned about the use of online medical information, which should “complement, not replace, the communication between a patient and their physician,” he wrote in an e-mail."
The article includes critical analysis about HealthTap: "I’m dubious that loads of consumers will be willing to pay that much, especially on top of existing insurance premiums, given the limitations of mobile medicine. Doctors can only prescribe certain drugs remotely, while blood tests and other diagnostics still require in-person visits. Telemedicine makes perfect sense in and of itself, especially for relatively healthy people who only need to check in with their doctors occasionally and don’t want the hassle of physically getting to a clinic. But HealthTap’s rivals in the space are generally charging less, at least for the basic level of these services."
The book notes: "HealthTap is building a patient-focused health information service, starting with a mobile application that anyone can run on most any device. For a patient, the experience is simple: Tap a button, ask a question, get an answer. Behind the scenes, HealthTap is processing vast datasets, using machine-learning, natural language processing, and voice recognition, to find answers to the questions that are asked. It's almost like having a doctor in your pocket, anytime you need her. There are currently over 55,000 doctors using the application and providing answers. Like any network, as the users (patients and doctors) increase, the value of the network increases, often exponentially."
The article notes, "HealthTap is best known for its question and answer website, where consumers can submit questions limited to 150 characters, answered by a pool of 60,000 doctors from across the U.S. That service has 10 million active users and is free with no ads. Prime is how HealthTap could start making money."
Delete I note that Cunard is using the GNG as the applicable guidelines to decide on notability and not
WP:NCORP which is for organizations/companies. Also, as per
the clear consensus at this recent RfC from Jan 2021 (which is to decide wording to describe *current* practice), it acknowledges the strict significant coverage requirements spelled out in the SNG for organisations and companies. In summary, references that rely on "echo chamber" information/opinions/etc (i.e. articles that rely entirely on information provided in announcements, quotations, interviews, partners, financial data, etc) fail the criteria for establishing notability.
There are two primary sections within NCORP that are applicable.
WP:CORPDEPTH requires Deep or significant coverage provides an overview, description, commentary, survey, study, discussion, analysis, or evaluation of the product, company, or organization and
WP:ORGIND requires "Independent content" which is described as original and independent opinion, analysis, investigation, and fact checking that are clearly attributable to a source unaffiliated to the subject.
Assuming that Cunard put his best references at the start, I'll focus on the first five. In summary, *all* of the above references fail the criteria for establishing notability.
1. NYT has no Independent Content. The quotation about physicians being licensed and in good standing is directly attributable to the company. The quotation from the president of the American Medical Association makes no mention of this company and there's no indication that his comment is directed at this company and not the industry in general.
2. Vox reference is based on a company announcements and preview of an update to their product version including pricing. While there is an opinion provided by the journalist, the reference does not provide any in-depth information on the company and fails
WP:CORPDEPTH
3 Wired reference is based entirely on an interview with Ron Gutman ,a founder of the company, and information/statistics provided by the company. It is an echo-chamber article and fails
WP:ORGIND.
4 Book reference provides a very short overview of Healthtap but it is neither in-depth nor significant. It also fails to provide any Independent content as it is merely reciting facts and data about the company which were provided by the company (e.g. the statements about using machine-learning, NLP and voice recognition, the number of doctors on the platform, etc).
5. The Forbes reference is from the "sites" section but was written by a staff member. That section of the website is widely acknowledged as not having editorial oversight and fails
WP:RS. The reference itself relies entirely on a "demo" provided by the company founder, fails
WP:ORGIND.
References fail
WP:NCORP (the applicable guideline for companies/organizations), topic fails the criteria for establishing notability.
HighKing++ 12:13, 8 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Deep or significant coverage provides an overview, description, commentary, survey, study, discussion, analysis, or evaluation of the product, company, or organization. Such coverage provides an organization with a level of attention that extends well beyond brief mentions and routine announcements, and makes it possible to write more than a
very brief, incomplete stub about the organization.
The New York Times article has substantial analysis about the company. It writes (my bolding), "HealthTap requires only that its physicians be licensed in the United States and in good standing — that is, not accused of malfeasance. Lamentably, it does not use board certification to establish a floor for qualifications required for physicians to participate". This is direct criticism from the journalist about HealthTap's deficiencies. Another quote from the article is (my bolding) "Another worrisome aspect is the breeziness of HealthTap’s answers, which are limited to 400 characters, a length hardly well-suited for providing nuanced answers to some medical questions." This is further criticism and analysis of the company from The New York Times. It is incorrect to say "NYT has no Independent Content."
The Vox article provides substantial criticism of the company: "I’m dubious that loads of consumers will be willing to pay that much" and "But HealthTap’s rivals in the space are generally charging less, at least for the basic level of these services."
The Wired article provides substantial analysis. It notes (my bolding), "Then there's the price. At $99 a month, the service is cheaper than the average monthly cost of insurance under the Affordable Care Act, and yet, it's still a substantial amount to pay on top of insurance." It also notes (my bolding), "For many patients, empathy, bedside manner, and understanding are some of the most important traits for any physician. ... Building that unprecedented level of comfort is a challenge HealthTap, and indeed, the rest of the telehealth industry, will have to overcome."
The book provides roughly 200 words of coverage about the company under a heading titled "HealthTap". It provides an overview of the company's work so meets the "deep or significant coverage" requirement of the guideline.
Regarding "The Forbes reference is from the "sites" section but was written by a staff member. That section of the website is widely acknowledged as not having editorial oversight and fails
WP:RS." – every article under
https://www.forbes.com/ is under the "sites" section, regardless of whether it's written by
a staff member or
a contributor. To say that the "sites" section "is widely acknowledged as not having editorial oversight and fails
WP:RS" for both staff members and contributors is incorrect. Only the contributor articles lack editorial oversight. All staff articles do have editorial oversight. The article provides an overview of a HealthTap offering. It includes independent research such as noting that there are "cheaper" services like HealthTap: "While there are other, sometimes cheaper, “telemedicine” services out there like LifeHealth Online and American Well, Gutman says he’s trying to build a marketplace for doctors that's a little Amazon."
Response Cunard, the references must pass *all* of the criteria in NCORP, you can't just pluck s couple and then say the sources pass. You haven't addresses the fact that once the articles are held up against ORGIND, you're left with one or two comments here and there - and those comments don't amount to in-depth coverage.
For example, you've picked two sentences from the New York Times article where the journalist voices an opinion. But that's it, there's nothing else remaining in the article once you discard those parts that are attributable to the company. The sentence starting with Lamentably is followed by The company says... so the fact about the licensing of physicians is attributable to the company and the *only* independent content is the journalist repeating this fact and preceding the sentence with "Lamentably". The comment on "Another worrisome aspect" isn't even about the company but about their app. Having one or two bare "opinions" with no in-depth commentary or discussion on those opinions does not pass CORPDEPTH.
The same criticism can be leveled at the Vox article - the article is based entirely on a company announcement and we get one single sentence where the journalist expresses one single opinion on his doubt that consumers will be willing to pay. There's nothing else. That is not enough to pass CORPDEPTH.
The same criticism applies to the Wired article. It is en interview, all the information about the company originates from company sources and the $99 per month opinion formed part of the interview itself and the executive responded. Taking a single comment out of context, as you've done, is a misleading practice.
You claim that all of those sources meet the criteria for Deep or significant coverage provides an overview, description, commentary, survey, study, discussion, analysis, or evaluation of the product, company, or organization but when you remove the information provided by the company from the articles, there is barely anything remaining other than the odd sentence here or there that you've highlighted. The purpose of CORPDEPTH is that the *journalist* has to provide the information, not simply write down exactly the information the company provided and then make a comment here or there.
HighKing++ 14:24, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
That some of the articles include quotations from people affiliated with the company does not make the entire articles non-independent. The sources have independent research, reporting, and analysis about the company as I pointed out in the quotations.
Cunard (
talk) 00:55, 21 February 2021 (UTC)reply
I agree and that's why you need to go through each article and discard everything that isn't clearly attributable to a source unaffiliated with the company (as per ORGIND). The trouble with the articles you've pointed to is that once you do that, there's nothing left. Certainly nothing that meets in-depth coverage. The odd quote here and there is all you (and I) have managed to isolate. There's no point in trying to then argue that 1, 2 or even 3 sentences meets
WP:CORPDEPTH.
HighKing++ 20:10, 21 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete. References are the classic bad sources per NCORP (
WP:ORGIND "dependent coverage"). Forbes non-staff, VentureBeat etc. There is no "New York Times article". This discussion is being tactically flooded.
— Alalch Emis (
talk) 12:00, 11 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: One last go-round for more discussion now that sources are being asserted
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ♠
PMC♠
(talk) 04:18, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The New Zealand Herald article does "focu[s] on the app's failure and how it cost their government millions". This is a source I overlooked in my list of sources above. This source strongly contributes to notability in being an independent source that has very negative material about HealthTap such as:
• A particular driver of HealthTap's poor reputation was its design for the US health-care market, which meant it had attributes that were strongly at odds with Waikato Hospital's clinical culture;
That this very negative source is cited in the article is a very strong indication that non-paid editors have contributed to the article.
文丹楓; 韋紹鋒 (2018).
互聯網+醫療:移動互聯網時代的醫療健康革命 [Internet + Medical: Medical and Health Revolution in the Era of Mobile Internet] (in Chinese). New Taipei City: 崧燁文化事業有限公司. pp.
114–
116.
ISBN9789865603526. Retrieved 2021-02-22.
The book covers HealthTap on three full pages (pages 114–116). It does not include quotes from people affiliated with the company
Coverage about the inquiry into HealthTap in New Zealand:
"Where the service offered through the HealthTap platform met a particular clinical need, it performed well."
HealthTap's operating model did not fit well with the New Zealand healthcare context, and the application had usability issues in the Waikato DHB operating environment. This meant that: (1) the "off-the-shelf" HealthTap platform was very United States-focused when it went live in the Waikato, which alienated local clinicians and consumers seeking to use it; and (2) considerable unanticipated time and expense was put into tailoring the platform to Waikato's outpatient model and IT requirements, and tailoring the content and functions for New Zealand users."
"The implementation of the HealthTap platform lacked a clear direction, transparency, or open communication, which was a significant barrier for organisational and sector support of it"
The "Part 2" of the report discusses has sections titled "What is HealthTap Inc?" and "How does the HealthTap platform work?" It is part of
an extensive 66-page report about HealthTap.
Articles about HealthTap's use in New Zealand, the inquiry, and the report:
"A five-month-long EY [Ernst Young] review of SmartHealth and HealthTap, the American company that powered the service through smart technology, discovered a series of bungles that led to a $9m budget blowout."
"A particular driver of HealthTap's poor reputation was its design for the US health-care market, which meant it had attributes that were strongly at odds with Waikato Hospital's clinical culture"
"The HealthTap contract price was a fixed annual licensing fee that did not reflect staged uptake of SmartHealth and meant the DHB paid the highest price from the outset."
Implementation of HealthTap lacked clear direction, transparency and open communication. "Other health organisations both in Waikato and the wider Midland region were surprised by Waikato's introduction of HealthTap, and organisational relationships suffered as a result.
The article notes, "The finding is one of many in a damning report released Thursday into Waikato DHB's dealings with US start-up company HealthTap, and its SmartHealth product."
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The result was keep. Merge proposals may still be discussed at
Talk:List_of_Hellblazer_characters, but I see no real consensus for that action at this point. Consensus is clearly against outright deletion in this discussion.
Sjakkalle(Check!) 18:09, 22 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep The nomination starts by kvetching about a PROD. The
WP:PROD process is only for uncontroversial deletion and "must only be used if no opposition to the deletion is expected." Piotrus must expect opposition in such cases but still they persist. In this fresh nomination, notice that they don't propose outright deletion and suggest an
alternative instead. So, why did they first propose full deletion?
The character is quite a major one as these things go. They appeared in issue #1 of the relevant comic and have since had their own mini-series, appeared in a major film and as a recurring role in a TV series. As a black character, they naturally attract attention for this reason and so deletion would be especially controversial.
The nomination is therefore quite unconvincing and we should retain the page for further work per our policy
WP:ATD, "If editing can improve the page, this should be done rather than deleting the page."
Week Keep or Selective Merge to
List_of_Hellblazer_characters#Papa_Midnite. This article should not have been PROD'd for the reasons brought up by
Andrew, and the rationale provided by the nominator is just as generic and copy paste as the dePROD response he criticized. My
WP:BEFORE reveal some coverage from
Comicbook.com,
Cinema Blend,
Mashable,
Digital Spy,
Entertainment Weekly,
Flickering Myth,
Hobby Consolas (Spanish),
A.V. Club though mostly in relation or in response to the character's appearances in adaptations/other media. Anyway, there is a difference between the character being noteworthy for coverage on Wikipedia, and whether it warrants a standalone article. Since the issue in contention is clearly the latter and if consensus decides that the existing sourcing does not convincingly meet WP:GNG, a merge may be considered. In any event, a merge proposal should have been done per
WP:ATD and
WP:PRESERVE, with no prejudice for the article to be recreated; more sourcing may turn up in the future given that this character is a recurring one in comics published by DC .
Haleth (
talk) 01:52, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Haleth,
The first source doesn't even mention the subject (did you mix some links?).
Second is a baitclick that does not provide any SIGCOV. It mentions he briefly appeared in the TV, and mentions the subject four times, that's simply calling him an " immortal badass", "a fashionable guy," praising his jacket.
Third is even worse, the subject is mention like two times, and all we get is a one-sentence praise from the show director of the actor; it contributes NOTHING to the topic.
Fourth is a tiny interview with the actor asking him if he will appear in crossovers, he replies he doesn't know of any plans. Again, this contributes NOTHING to the notability. I am stopping my review here, since clearly you did not read the sources and are just using
WP:GOOGLEHITS arguments, and considering the first source is off topic, it's a fail at even this simple task. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 02:58, 22 February 2021 (UTC)reply
You are correct, the first link is wrong, I guess because I scrolled too far down the page before I copy and pasted the link without checking correctly,
so here it is, but I doubt you will change your mind. As for the rest of your...comments, honestly it read like another diatribe. If you read what I wrote in response, my point is that PROD is clearly an inappropriate course of action to begin with, since a cursory search indicates that the character is clearly verifiable and a PROD for the subject would not be uncontroversial. I included sources for the benefit of the participants in this discussion, and everyone is free to decide for themselves whether it meets
WP:GNG. If you are going to be doing a source by source analysis, my suggestion is that you go all the way or don't do it at all. And if you read my original reasoning properly, I am not strongly in favour of this article being kept, but I am open to it being merged or redirected since there is enough coverage in my view that outright deletion is inappropriate or unnecessary per
WP:ATD. I should also point out that you're not even arguing a proper case for deletion since you have presented a valid
WP:ATD solution for this article, to be redirected
List_of_Hellblazer_characters#Papa_Midnite, in your own rationale.
Haleth (
talk) 07:11, 22 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep This would appear to be a notable subject for an article, and given the expansive list of coverage on the subject, it would seem ill-advised to delete the article. While a merge can be considered, I don't see a reason to do so. The article has sourcing already added, and I would disagree with the nominator's assessment of the article not meeting
WP:GNG. EggRoll97(
talk) 08:25, 21 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep there is enough here from Haleth and this can be saved with some work.
Archrogue (
talk) 19:34, 21 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep This is a notable character. The issue here is that this article (just like 99% of all other articles on comic book characters) is terrible.
★Trekker (
talk) 23:18, 21 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment to closer. Please remember AFD is not a vote. No policy based arguments have been presented, and extra sources at that moment, per my review above, fail our requirements (first link doesn't even mention the subject, etc.). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 02:59, 22 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment Your opinion is noted but not accepted. Policies have been cited by other editors. I am not sure if it is appropriate for you as the nominator (unless there's a supporting policy or guideline which I am unaware of), to essentially instruct other editors on how they should be closing this AfD, especially when you are presenting your sentences in a passive aggressive,
WP:BLUDGEON manner towards others in this discussion when the emergent consensus does not seem to be going your way.
Haleth (
talk) 07:11, 22 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Thank you. This is not the first time I've seen similar behaviour.
★Trekker (
talk) 08:51, 22 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge per the suggested target above by Haleth. I don't think there are enough sources to expand the article to a good state, but there probably are for the list article.
Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 11:48, 22 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge to the Hellblazer character article per Haleth. I agree there is not quite enough to keep the article. Merging is the best option here.
Rhino131 (
talk) 14:41, 22 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete.
Daniel (
talk) 22:45, 19 February 2021 (UTC)reply
A band that does not appear to have been notable. I have been unable to find any coverage at all in reliable sources about it. The article makes the assertion of notability that their one released single charted at 49 on the
Irish Singles Chart, which would technically pass item 2 at
WP:NBAND. However the website being used to support this information does not appear to be a
WP:RS, and I have had difficulty confirming it elsewhere. Regardless, though,
WP:NBAND states that meeting that requirement may indicate notability, and given the complete lack of coverage on the band in reliable sources, I would argue that in this case, it does not.
Rorshacma (
talk) 00:07, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete. There's no indication in this article that this band released more than one single; apparently they were working on their debut EP in 2013, and no updates to their status have been made since then. More importantly, no significant independent sources have been provided except to establish that their one single spent one week on the Irish singles chart. No news or biographical coverage has been cited. --
Metropolitan90(talk) 04:13, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete. No additional citations since 2012. --
Darubrub (
talk) 18:36, 12 February 2021 (UTC)sock strike--
TheSandDoctorTalk 04:35, 19 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete. —
The Earwig ⟨
talk⟩ 02:44, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete non-notable musician. LA weekly entry isn't SIGCOV.
Elliot321 (
talk |
contribs) 03:22, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete not even one source that constitutes significant coverage in a reliable, secondary, independent 3rd-party source, let alone the multiple ones we need.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 18:00, 17 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete. Sandstein 09:11, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete per
WP:TNT. I'd say the topic might be notable, as it has been covered a lot in fiction, but I don't see anything salvageable from the current state of the article.
Pladica (
talk) 04:28, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply Delete In addition to
WP:CRYSTAL there is a big list of other relevant issues (see the template at the top of the article). For cases like these you can just use
WP:PROD. I wouldn't expect any objection for this nomination.-
Renat 12:21, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply Delete per
WP:CRYSTAL. -
Amigao (
talk) 18:24, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
"though editors should be aware of creating undue bias to any specific point-of-view" Normchou💬 17:43, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
This argument is invalid, because the article is written only based on (!) 3 news sources and they do not predict: WP:NOTNEWS. There is not enough coverage for the subject so the article fails to meet WP:GNG. Someone could be tricked with the amount of text in the article, but I checked text-source integrity and can confirm, that the content of the article violates WP:OR. There is no way such amount of text could be extracted out from 3 news sources.--
Renat 10:30, 18 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete just because a few people have speculated about something does not make it a subject that we can actually have an encyclopedic article on.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 21:23, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Fails
WP:NORG. References are either affiliated with subject (the IWW/Starbucks union websites) or aren't sufficiently independent (the many profiles of the union that are generally just interviews with the union members).
Chess (
talk) (please use {{
reply to|Chess}} on reply) 22:10, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep it easily passes
WP:GNG with stories about the organization itself in the Boston Globe, Seattle Times, New York Times, and Wall Street Journal to name a few. A quick search of newspapers.com also reveals a number of other sources in newspapers across the United States. There is also
a book written about it by
Staughton Lynd and numerous other mentions of varying levels of depth available via Google Scholar.--
User:Namiba 03:37, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
GNG isn't applicable here. As an organization these sources have to abide by SIRS. Most of them aren't independently written and are just profiles or otherwise insignificant. Brief mentions don't satisfy
WP:SIRS.
Chess (
talk) (please use {{
reply to|Chess}} on reply) 07:27, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
For that matter, anything by Straughton Lynd automatically fails the "independent" part of SIRS as he has very strong ties to the IWW (having given a speech to their general assembly).
Chess (
talk) (please use {{
reply to|Chess}} on reply) 07:37, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Chess, It's normal for scholars to be also involved in topics they research. If you think the source is not reliable, I suggest taking it to
WP:RSN first. If there is consensus it is unreliable, then we can remove it and it will carry much less weight here. But for now, I'd call it reliable (a book written by an academic expert on the topic). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 05:53, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
@
Piotrus: Didn't say it was unreliable, just that it doesn't meet the criteria for showing the Starbucks Workers Union is notable.
WP:SIRS is very clear here. The source must be completely independent of the article subject to prevent organizations from gaming the system. Since the SWU is an IWW union and Straughton Lynd is very associated with the IWW, the source does not satisfy the "independent" criteria of SIRS. While I'm sure it is a reliable source, it is not an independent one. If you don't like that policy, I suggest you take it up at the talk page at
WT:NORG to get it changed.
Chess (
talk) (please use {{
reply to|Chess}} on reply) 06:20, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Chess, NORG as usual focuses on commercial companies and fails when it comes to non-profits. SIRS is intended to prevent paid-for shills from creating fake 'independent' sources. Anyway, let's examine this case in more detail. You claim "Straughton Lynd is very associated with the IWW" but right now his article doesn't mention any such ties? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 06:34, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
@
Piotrus:NORG is applicable to unions regardless of your feelings on the matter. Unions can pay for shills just as much as any other organization. While I can pretty clearly see that this AfD is going to result in a keep because the unwritten rule is that NORG is really just meant to target organizations that endeavour to turn a profit and the policy is only written the way it is to give the illusion of fairness, I believe that the policy should be enforced the way it is written which is why I opened this AfD.
On Lynd's association with the IWW, I point out these excerpts of a speech he gave to the IWW general assembly
[1] he cowrote a book with one of the founders of the Starbucks Workers Union (Daniel Gross, his SWU affiliation given a single sentence in the linked article).
[2] And while I cannot find a source saying Lynd has ever worked for the IWW or is a member (never said he was), I'd say giving speeches on behalf of the IWW and writing books with IWW members that are considered essential IWW literature, originating the "Solidarity Unionism" philosophy of the IWW
[3] certainly make him a
fellow traveler at the very least.
In all honesty none of that really matters though because after taking another look at the book you've linked I've realized that it's the exact book Lynd wrote with Daniel Gross. So I'm pretty sure there's no way in hell a book cowritten by the founder of the Starbucks Workers Union satisfies the "independence" criteria of SIRS and probably doesn't even satisfy the GNG criteria if it was applicable here.
Chess (
talk) (please use {{
reply to|Chess}} on reply) 07:33, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep A search with the phrase "Starbucks Workers Union" produces many ,many mentions in Google books:
Brief mentions don't satisfy
WP:SIRS and neither do profiles written based off of the unions pamphleteering or interviews.
Chess (
talk) (please use {{
reply to|Chess}} on reply) 07:27, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
First book was written by Daniel Gross, founder of the SWU
[4] and the second fails the significance criterion of
WP:SIRS. It covers Starbucks far more than the union and limits its coverage of the SWU to three paragraphs, one of which is almost entirely composed of a verbatim quote of the SWUs website.
Chess (
talk) (please use {{
reply to|Chess}} on reply) 07:40, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete. ♠
PMC♠
(talk) 11:15, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
KEEP: Considering the importance of Catalent, a CDMO manufacturing at least 100 million doses of the COVID vaccine, this person should be considered notable regardless of whether anyone has decided to write about them. While not well-known among the general public, Catalent is playing a very important role in overcoming the COVID pandemic.
PeanutTheDog55 (
talk) 23:10, 19 February 2021 (UTC) —
PeanutTheDog55 (
talk •
contribs) has made
few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
That is the company, not him, and notability is not inherited. There is no coverage on him. scope_creepTalk
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Fails
WP:GNG. A political party that has never won any seat or office in any election and, as far as I can tell, has never received any significant coverage. (I don't speak Ukrainian, but Google search/translate results do not give the impression that there is anything.) The party's founder,
Natalya Zemna, has an article, but she doesn't seem to be notable either, see
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natalya Zemna.
Lennart97 (
talk) 21:56, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was Withdrawn by nom. Meets GNG (and WP:NBASE), with sources found by Muboshgu.
(non-admin closure)Natg 19 (
talk) 22:40, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Non-notable MLB pitcher. Yes, I know that he technically meets
WP:NBASE, but he only appeared in 1 MLB game. It seems that he played 9 years in the minor leagues prior to his MLB appearance.
Natg 19 (
talk) 21:56, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep Like you said, he meets
WP:NBASE. So why did you nominate this exactly? You didn't even bother with
WP:BEFORE, did you?
[5][6][7] –
Muboshgu (
talk) 22:16, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
I did attempt to find sources about him, but I did not find any. In my opinion, just having played in 1 game doesn't meet the standard for
WP:NBASE. On further research, I was able to find more sources, so I'll withdraw.
Natg 19 (
talk) 22:39, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep. Played in Major League Baseball so he is notable.
Spanneraol (
talk) 22:26, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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not yet notable artist. No work in the permanent collection of major museums. No major studies about her--the first NYT ref has one sentence mentioning her in a long review of a exhibition; the other mentions her only as the wife of the subject of the article. DGG (
talk ) 21:28, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Weak Keep Gobonobo has summed it up well. I think It's more the collections that mean she may meet
WP:NARTIST. There is not an enormous smount of coverage out there, but with the collections it maybe enough.
Possibly (
talk) 23:27, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Changing to solid keep based on the two collections and the
article improvements by gobonobo. GNG is fully met, and
WP:NARTIST is minimally met for the two collections (one of the works is a collaborative work, but she is clearly credited).
Possibly (
talk) 03:25, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep On the basis of available resources, subject seems to be notable.
Niceguylucky (
talk) 08:42, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep per discussion and page improvements.
Randy Kryn (
talk) 12:02, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep - The artist is in the early stages of her career and we will probably hearing more about her in the coming years. The article in its current state, thanks to the great work by
Gobonobo now meets
WP:GNG. She also is in two museum collections therefore meets
WP:NARTIST.
Netherzone (
talk) 13:01, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Subject does not meet GNG, BASIC, ANYBIO or NSOLDIER. Sources in the article and BEFORE did not show anything with SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and in depth. The Times reference is the name in a list of two people killed, not even a complete sentence. "The Scramble in the Horn of Africa" does not mention the subject on pp.386 (it does mention a report from Colonel R. I. Scallon, but no mention of the subject or support claims in the article) and a search showed nothing on any other page. //
Timothy ::
talk 21:00, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete No SIGCOV anywhere.
SK2242 (
talk) 21:13, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete. Sandstein 10:48, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
A note on
WP:RSN provided
no further independent information on this newspaper; I can find no reason to assume this is notable. It is odd for a newspaper that claims a circulation of 66,000 copies to not receive any coverage itself, and the only explanation for that--well, I don't want to speculate. But this is not a notable subject, given the complete lack of coverage, and I'd add that I don't think it's a reliable source either (I know, that's another matter).
Buidhe, thank you for chiming in at RSN.
Drmies (
talk) 20:59, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete as a presumptive NCORP failure. A search for references is made difficult with New Europe's own articles appearing in search results.
SK2242 (
talk) 21:17, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The only WP:RS source I can immediately find is
[8] a French-language scholarly article with 1-2 sentences about New Europe, not SIGCOV. With the stated circulation and length of history there might well be more independent, reliable sources, but I'm not finding them. If they can't be found I agree the article should be deleted. (
t ·
c) buidhe 21:28, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment: I'm struggling to find sources that establish GNG (apart from Buidehe's source above, all I can find is
[9]), but it's very possible they exist. "New Europe" has so many red herring results that it's hard to sort through the chaffe. IAR, I'm hesitant to delete. 150,000 online readers and 60,000 print subscribers is a substantial readership and 1993 is a decent history. This is a good case of a publication that appears to meet
WP:NMEDIA criteria 3, are considered by reliable sources to be authoritative in their subject area (the EU), or criteria 5, are significant publications in ethnic and other non-trivial niche markets (people interested in the EU). {{u|Sdkb}}talk 05:00, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The issue is that I don't think either of these sources establish either criteria 3 or 5. I've seen no evidence that this is a RS source let alone "authoritative". And I don't know how to judge if a publication is "significant" except RS coverage. New Europe isn't even on the list
[10] of media frequently followed by MEPs. (
t ·
c) buidhe 05:07, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
User:Sdkb, Buidhe hits the nail on the head. The basic facts can't even be established reliably.
Drmies (
talk) 15:26, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Note: I checked the Turkish story (from 2009) and it seems to be pushing a conspiracy that US wants a military coup to happen in Turkey. When a coup actually was attempted (in 2016), the US condemned it. (
t ·
c) buidhe 02:56, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was redirect to
USS John R. Craig (DD-885)#Namesake and commissioning. This time around, consensus is rather clearly against keeping this as a separate article. There is no clear consensus about whether and what to merge, but this seems to be a moot distinction because much content appears to have been merged already. It's now up to the editorial process to determine whether to reduce or enhance the biographical content in the target article. Sandstein 13:57, 21 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep A warship was named after him which is a "significant award or honor" and so passes
WP:ANYBIO.
Andrew🐉(
talk) 17:56, 24 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Redirect to
USS John R. Craig (DD-885). Fails
WP:SOLDIER (LtCDR posthumously awarded a Navy Cross. Having a ship named after him during WWII is not a "significant award or honor") and
WP:GNG. No SIGCOV in multiple RS so not notable.
Mztourist (
talk) 03:15, 25 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge to
USS John R. Craig (DD-885) per above. Doesn't pass for a stand alone article, but the content will improve the target article, be less fragmented, and give the content more readership. Per
WP:N, "Editors may use their discretion to merge or group two or more related topics into a single article." The article as a stand alone will receive minimal readership, but as part of the target will receive much more. There is no benefit to fragmenting the content. I ce'd the article to help with the merge. //
Timothy ::
talk 14:57, 25 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep As a matter of housekeeping, I would note that this is there is a previous nomination for deletion that just went down the tubes. This is the second nomination. This fact is being knowingly suppressed – on this and many articles. See
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Edward Henry Allen. The record should be corrected accordingly. There is a systemic attempt to hide that fact over many articles.
This is a procedural hijack and an attempt to make sure that editors who do their job properly won't have time to respond. This is 'putting old wine in new bottles' — doing by indirection that which you cannot do by direction.
This is relevant, and it should be fixed. It is a fact. It is always put into the history. I've never seen this, and it is a direct result of the misbegotten attempt to purge a couple of hundred articles. And all at once, overwhelming the limited number of editors who actively try to save articles, while at the same time trolling those editors to make their job difficult and discourage them with distractions. Apparently it takes no time to resurrect hundreds of Navy Cross/Silver Star/Ship name honorees for deletion. It takes a lot of time to respond and improve all of these articles. This is in fact a second nomination (among many). And given the fact that there is no good faith compliance with
WP:Before and a blatant disregard of sources that exist but aren't cited — which do factor in to notability, this sneak attack is (dare I say it) ... a date that will live in infamy. You are distorting the process and rigging the outcomes.
Subject meets or exceeds
WP:GNG. No compliance with
WP:Before. The protocol is that one should not only look at the present cited sources, but available sources, too. 7&6=thirteen (
☎) 15:02, 30 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Relisted after a "no consensus" closure and a similarly inconclusive discussion at
Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2021 February 2.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 20:48, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The current content of paragraph 1 of
USS John R. Craig (DD-885)#Namesake and commissioning is more than sufficient for a bio stub. In terms of article structure, it is a perversion to have a garden path structure of ship -> namesake -> command history -> other ships unconnected to first ship. The bio should have an incoming link from every ship he commanded, and three incoming links justifies the standalone article. —
SmokeyJoe (
talk) 08:36, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Redirect with option to merge to
USS John R. Craig (DD-885). Through all the lengthy history of this article, there have not been enough sources presented to meet the GNG. Longstanding policy (
WP:ATD-M) permits the non-notable article to be merged into another, notable article. In this case, the USS John R. Craig is the appropriate one, since it's necessary to explain why the ship was named for him. The ironic thing here is that no content needs to be lost: it can all be merged over. The only question is whether our coverage of this man needs to be fragmented into two articles, and policy is clear that it shouldn't be.
Extraordinary Writ (
talk) 21:19, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
If not disposing of most of the content, this merge will mean that the
USS John R. Craig (DD-885) article will contain a sizeable outtake of discussion of the command history of the
USS R-17 (SS-94) as well as the command history and fate of the
USS Grampus (SS-207). That is perverse
meta:Structurism. It doesn’t fit. It would be an obvious case for a spinout of this person. Are you sure you have really thought this hypothetical merge through? —
SmokeyJoe (
talk) 02:58, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
(edit conflict with Mztourist, below) What is this article? It's text from the Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships, in which it serves to explain why the Craig was named after him. As such, it would work perfectly well at the article about the Craig, where it would fulfill the same function: explaining why the ship was named for him. The section about the "command history and fate of the Grampus" covers exactly three sentences, and the section about the R-17 covers exactly one sentence. That's not "a sizeable outtake": it's basic background, and it would be useful to the reader. As such, there's no danger of turning the ship's article into a coatrack, and a merge proposal is certainly not "perverse".
Extraordinary Writ (
talk) 04:23, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment I have already merged all relevant information on Craig onto
USS John R. Craig (DD-885). It amounts to one paragraph. The loss of the
USS Grampus (SS-207) is covered on that page.
SmokeyJoe the pages for
USS R-17 (SS-94) and Grampus don't feature command histories, so that argument doesn't carry much weight.
Mztourist (
talk) 04:10, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Redirect to
USS John R. Craig (DD-885), where the relevant content has already been merged to. Does not meet
WP:BIO, so no reason to keep as a stand-alone article. A plausible search term, with a clear redirect target. --
K.e.coffman (
talk) 04:23, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge for now I strongly suspect we'll find sources solid enough to meet the GNG, but we aren't there yet.
Hobit (
talk) 13:13, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Redirect to
USS John R. Craig (DD-885), which is basically the same as merging since the important content has already been merged. The only source cited in the article is
[13]. This is a wiki which accepts user-submitted content, and therefore isn't very reliable. It does link to other pages, however they aren't great sources either (the guy's college yearbook, two other memorial associations and a service history). I wouldn't be surprised if there's some other brief coverage of him from when he got the medal or when the ship was named after him, but I don't think he passes
WP:GNG. Even if having a ship named after you does meet
WP:ANYBIO as a "well-known and significant award or honor",
WP:BIO#Special cases says that subjects which meet ANYBIO but fail the GNG should be merged into another article. Since his main significance is having the ship named after him it makes sense to cover him in the article about the ship. Hut 8.5 18:43, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Fails
WP:NALBUM, on account of not having been released and having almost no details available about it, and if one of its makers is to be believed, will now never be released. I've been following this for a while – a collaborative hip hop album that was put on ice indefinitely after Lil Peep died. There is coverage of iLoveMakonnen speaking in 2019 after Lil Peep's death, talking about how he was continuing to work on the album
[14],
[15],
[16], but those were
WP:PRIMARY promotional interviews around the release of the lead single from the planned album, and don't really say anything more than that he was continuing to work on the record – no details of other songs or anything. The two songs that are talked about in any detail, "
Sunlight on Your Skin" and "
I've Been Waiting", already have their own articles. And now according to a recent Instagram chat with iLoveMakonnen, the album will never be released
[17]. Of course, decisions and circumstances can change, but as of now, the release of this album appears unlikely, so this is
WP:CRYSTALBALL and there is almost no reliable information about it, and we shouldn't be keeping stub articles indefinitely based on a possible release one day in the future. If it does eventually see the light of day, the article can be easily recreated, because there's almost nothing here worth keeping – a few days ago a new editor added a track listing, but this is unsourced OR and are the editor's only edits to Wikipedia so far. This collaborative album is already mentioned in the articles for both artists. So there's nothing to merge, and as both artists are notable, no redirect target per
WP:XY.
Richard3120 (
talk) 19:42, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete – Fails
WP:NALBUM and appears to be nothing special, despite tragic circumstances, etc. Web sources make passing mentions of expected album while talking about/with artist, but naturally have nothing much to say about album directly. Article itself should never have been made; now's not too soon to kill it. —
JohnFromPinckney (
talk) 20:37, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Fails
WP:NBASKETBALL and
WP:GNG. Played a measily 27 minutes in 2016 for Bahamas national team and seems to not be playing anymore.
Kline | vroom vroom 19:00, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep He passes
WP:GNG with the sources now in the article. On a sidenote, he may have "Played a measily 27 minutes in 2016 for Bahamas national team" but as the article clearly stated, he played in the
2022 FIBA AmeriCup qualification and is considered a key player for the games expected to be played in 2021.
[18]Alvaldi (
talk) 21:23, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Strong Keep As mentioned above, he clearly passes
WP:GNG. He played much more than 27 minutes but is just a side note...please check the facts more thoroughly. In fact, whether he still plays or how many minutes he played is irrelevant as it has nothing to do with wikipedia's notability criteria.
Stephreef (
talk) 10:34, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Weak keep Just enough sources to justify passing GNG. He doesn't meet notability from strict NBASKETBALL standards, but that guideline is more about the specifics of a ball player rather than overall notability.
SportsGuy789 (
talk) 20:06, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
keep. Agree with above, he just passes
WP:GNG.
Alex-h (
talk) 17:28, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete the alleged GNG "pass" is with a lot of low quality coverage and should not be allowed to overcome the total and complete failure of the basketball notability guidelines.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 18:07, 17 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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One line article about an American golfer who fails
WP:NGOLF. A
WP:BEFORE search only brings up articles about his PGA Tour debut being delayed by Covid, and his subsequent debut. A case of
WP:TOOSOON.
John B123 (
talk) 18:52, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep - A quick Google News search for "Kamaiu Johnson" shows over a dozen articles granting direct coverage from higher quality outlets. Seems to meet
WP:GNG.
NickCT (
talk) 19:06, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete - per
WP:BLP1E/
WP:ONEEVENT. Below the standard of golfer we would normally cover. Seems to be his first
OWGR event, only played mini-tours so far. No notable amateur career. Only seems to be notable as he's been given a one-off opportunity to play in a PGA Tour event.
Nigej (
talk) 19:16, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep I agree with NickCT, seems to meet
WP:GNG, regardless if he's below the standard of golfer we would normally cover. We cover what is covered in sources, of which there are plenty for him.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk) 20:32, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
^^This. I guess I might agree w/ some of the delete folks that this guy might not be notable by
WP:NGOLF standards. But GNG trumps NGOLF.
NickCT (
talk) 20:54, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
But does he pass BLP1E/NOT? I'm unconvinced there is reason to believe coverage will extend beyond these tour appearances. wjematherplease leave a message... 21:17, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Aren't there a lot of golfers who don't get coverage outside tour appearances?
NickCT (
talk) 17:55, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Ok. Fair enough. But aren't there a lot of golfers on WP that don't get coverage outside tour appearances?
NickCT (
talk) 19:35, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Probably, and some of them possibly don't meet the criteria for standalone articles, but that doesn't help us here. NGOLF specifies a golfer should have played a full season or had exceptional performances at the elite level as a reasonable insurance that coverage will be available over an extended period. GNG is there to catch the rest, subject to other guidelines and policy provisions. wjematherplease leave a message... 14:36, 17 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep - Not to discredit his golfing abilities but his rags-to-riches background story captures attention and the Google hits prove it. If this article gets dropped it'll be back in short order.--
Hooperbloob (
talk) 15:42, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep, meets notability and does not deserve to be deleted.
Alex-h (
talk) 18:05, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete without prejudice to revisiting this article when/if more
reliable sources come about such that it meets the
WP:NMUSICIAN or
WP:GNG notability guidelines.
TheSandDoctorTalk 08:26, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete I agree. I'm not seeing much in sources for him, even music industry magazines. Coverage doesn't seem significant enough.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk) 20:35, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete not enough sources to show notability.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 13:46, 17 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Routine election of a city of 76,610 people. Not automatically notable. Nothing distinguishing this election. The election has not been identified as particularly notable. None of the individuals running have even been identified as particularly notable.
SecretName101 (
talk) 17:51, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete. There is not sufficient coverage that makes the election notable.
Rondolinda (
talk) 23:07, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete, per nom.does not prove notability.
Alex-h (
talk) 18:08, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete.
Malcolmxl5 (
talk) 03:10, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Purely
WP:PROMOTIONAL article about an organization that does not meet
WP:GNG, potentially written for pay. –
Muboshgu (
talk) 17:48, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. Likely paid-for spam, creator blocked for advertising. Sources are mostly press releases.
MER-C 19:05, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete Very little coverage in the article sources, excepting the articles on cryptocurrency sites discussing how the subject is embracing crypto, which I don't believe establishes notability.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk) 20:39, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete The alleged sources are either PR fluff or don't cover the subject; fails notability with flying colours. Likely paid promo piece (by now banned editor, one might add). --
DoubleGrazing (
talk) 08:14, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete. Unanimous agreement here even after I discount a sockpuppet argument.
Malcolmxl5 (
talk) 03:12, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete. Evidently uncontroversial.
Malcolmxl5 (
talk) 03:14, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete we do not need disambiguation for two entries.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 21:38, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete as uncontroversial cleanup. (I know disambigs go to AfD rather than MfD, but I don't quite get why.)
Vaticidalprophet (
talk) 22:54, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete. Noting BLPREQUESTDELETE.
Malcolmxl5 (
talk) 03:23, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Subject has requested deletion. As noted in the
previous AfD closed as no consensus, there is some coverage, but in my opinion not enough to establish clear notability that overrides the BLPREQUESTDELETE concerns. —
The Earwig ⟨
talk⟩ 17:33, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete. Both per
WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE and due to the current lack of sourcing—the first two sources are primary and the third is not independent.
Perryprog (
talk) 17:34, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete.
WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE, poor sourcing. As the subject has requested deletion due to privacy concerns (she hasn't released her name, thus non-public), it clearly meets the criteria of
WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE. Additionally, the sources are weak, primarily consisting of social media links.
Editor760 (
talk) 17:44, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete I was taking a look at the sources mentioned in the prior discussion, and considering attempting to improve this, but the fact that the BLP vio existed since the articles creation, the poor quality of even the best sources in the prior discussion or previous versions of the article, and the fact that the subject requests deletion all push me towards delete. ~ ONUnicorn(
Talk|
Contribs)problem solving 18:21, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
*Weak keep - the subject didn't request deletion, just that her real name not be used. She uses her alias and photo on her social media so I don't think she's worried about those items being public. I just contacted Google since they indexed the version with her real name before we could revert it. I added some coverage - she was the #2 female YouTuber in the UK a few years back. That's enough for a weak keep. The question now is, do we leave this article up because it might be a magnet for personal info, or do we remove it to protect her from being doxxed? Tough choice but I think as long as she's notable enough, the benefit of compiling knowledge comes first.
TimTempleton(talk)(cont) 18:58, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Striking vote due to help desk request. IP address of request geolocates to subjects home area.
TimTempleton(talk)(cont) 20:59, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Someone claiming to be subject requested the article be deleted over IRC. I have not verified their identity, but I am taking their request at face value, and it was the same person as
Wikipedia:Help desk#Please help, Wikipedia doxed me. Being "a magnet for personal info" was part of their argument. —
The Earwig ⟨
talk⟩ 19:46, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete she's a low profile individual and imo not notable anyway but if WP really wants to deal with gender gaps and equity with women, we should start by listening to them when they ask to have articles deleted, especially when they are not major public figures.
CUPIDICAE💕 19:09, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete Not notable enough there would be hundreds of youtuber pages if this was notable enough which it is not. Also the page has many other problems. TigerScientistChat 18:52, 18 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was keep. ♠
PMC♠
(talk) 11:19, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The article's creator or other significant contributors should ideally be left a message at their talk page(s) informing them of the proposed deletion. This should be done by adding the ==
Proposed deletion of
Name of page ==
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your
edit summary or on
the article's talk page.
Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the
proposed deletion process, but other
deletion processes exist. In particular, the
speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and
articles for deletion allows discussion to reach
consensus for deletion. tag, or other appropriate text.
If you use the above template, you do not need to add a section header, as the template will do this for you. Twinkle has an option (which can be configured as the default in Twinkle preferences) to inform the page creator.[4] 7&6=thirteen (
☎) 17:28, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
7&6=thirteen, note that the article creator was blocked nearly four years ago for persistent sockpuppetry and creation of blatantly nonsense articles, so notification was probably a waste of time in this case.
Richard3120 (
talk) 01:55, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep No valid reason was given for deletion.
WP:IDON'TLIKEIT is not a valid reason. AFD is
WP:NOTCLEANUP.
DreamFocus 18:26, 12 February 2021 (UTC) added Keep vote and would like to also point out the article already has a reference proving this is a traditional folk song.
[19]DreamFocus 01:21, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
KeepBased on my initial research and addition of news sources to the article, it seems appropriate to keep and revise this article to focus on the Lubi-Lubi song, for which [because] independent and reliable sources appear to exist, and to consider merging the description of the game into another article if reliable sources can be found.Beccaynr (
talk) 21:44, 12 February 2021 (UTC) (updated due to
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus's contributions to the article and this discussion)reply
Comment Also, perhaps the title of the article can be updated to Lubi-Lubi (song) for greater clarity, because there are also Lubi-Lubi festivals.
Beccaynr (
talk) 01:50, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Weak keep. I concur that the nominator failed
WP:BEFORE (Google Books search for Bicol song "Lubi-Lubi" suggests some coverage of the topic in
[20],
[21],
[22],
[23] (that said, I could only get snippet views, so I am not 100% convinced the sources contain more than trivial mention of the topic, but one at least suggest the topic gets its own section/box). The article is nowhere near the shape bad enough for TNT although I couldn't find any references that a 'game' accompanying the song/dance actually exist. The nominator should be
WP:TROUTed for not presenting their analysis of sources (BEFORE). PS. I did some c/e, removing description of this as a game, it doesn't seem to be described as such. The article should be less confusing now. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 00:52, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge to an article on Filipino folk songs.
Oaktree b (
talk) 02:37, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep: Article needs a little expansion if ever. Other than that, it is good enough to pass
WP:GNG with the sources indicated above and in the article. ASTIG😎(
ICE T •
ICE CUBE) 16:00, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete. Sandstein 10:41, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete Don't see enough coverage in news and books. --
Yoonadue (
talk) 04:16, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Similar issues to
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tris Margetts. The overwhelming majority of the references are not reliable sources, including Facebook, Discogs, RateYourMusic, and other
social media or
user-generated sites. The book cited Bournemouth Rocks! : A Brief History of Rock Music in Bournemouth, Boscombe and Poole, 1960-1980 is by a
small local history press and is held in a grand total of
eight libraries according to Worldcat. This does not contribute much to the notability of the band. The only generally-accepted RS that covers this band, AllMusic, has a
one paragraph stub. The remaining RS's are about notable band
Emerson, Lake & Palmer, with whom some members recorded, but notability is
WP:NOTINHERITED Despite copious
WP:REFBOMBing, the evidence is not enough to pass
WP:NMUSIC or
WP:GNG.
Eggishorn(talk)(contrib) 16:10, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep easily notable with releases on major labels such as EMI
as shown here and Capitol Records passing
WP:NMUSIC criteria 5 (only one criteria needed) and with significant coverage such as album reviews in Billboard and Melody Maker. Yes there are many unreliable sources such as discogs that need replacing but that is no reason to take the easy deletion route and ignore the reliable sources and the notability of the band, imv
Atlantic306 (
talk) 01:09, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep. Included in The Encyclopedia of Popular Music. Major label albums petty much guarantees that enough coverage will exist to satisfy even the most ardent GNG-wonk. --
Michig (
talk) 20:24, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep - The nominator is correct about the article's reliance on unreliable social media sources, but that is a matter of
cleaning up rather than deleting. The article needs to be significantly reduced to eliminate excessive
fancruft informed by that same social media chatter. But it can be narrowed down to basic facts supported by some reliable sources on 70s progressive rock, as located by the previous voters. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (
TALK|
CONTRIBS) 16:10, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was keep. ♠
PMC♠
(talk) 11:19, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment Degree-awarding institutes in India are typically presumed notable; 'schooloutcomes' touches on this more broadly.
Zindor (
talk) 19:46, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep This is a degree-awarding,
GGSIPU affiliated college (
see here for latest proof) that enrols thousands of students each year.
WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES point number 2 suggests that online coverage for such institutions may not readily be available online.
Dial911 (
talk) 19:08, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keepaccredited school, although sources light, it meets guidelines.
Expertwikiguy (
talk) 03:05, 19 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete.
Daniel (
talk) 01:10, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete – Looks slightly better than
Plextek RF Integration so it took more time to read it and check the sources, but there's still nothing here but self-announcement and a basic business offerings broschure. —
JohnFromPinckney (
talk) 21:13, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete - I agree with both of the users above, NCORP notability not established
Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 22:39, 19 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete.
Daniel (
talk) 01:09, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
This has been tagged for years and years; it's little more than a directory-style entry with a history of COI edits and link spam. Nothing much can be found on this outfit, besides a few mentions in Amnesty International and HRW and, of course, press releases. The best thing I found was
this, an *ahem* somewhat biased opinion piece that inflates the organization, in a non-notable publication which is spammed for in our article on a publishing outfit,
Pulsamerica.
Drmies (
talk) 15:44, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete, the article does not meet
WP:NGO. The organization is active on the international level, however I could not find "significant coverage in multiple reliable sources that are independent of the organization."
JimRenge (
talk) 20:44, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete per JimRenge and nom.
Feoffer (
talk) 03:04, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete. They have been described as "One of the world's leading human rights groups"
here, although I am not sure how reliable the source is (low key academic journal? But it's called '
News Weekly'... I can't find much about the author, 'Peter Westmore'). Whatever this is (an article or a news piece) I also failed to gain access to it. Other than that I see some mentions in passing, some citations to their work, and that's it. I couldn't find any discussion of the organizaton's history or significance, not even a sentence-long one, outside
WP:PRIMARY sources. As such, it seems that this NGO fails
WP:NORG/GNG requirement. PS. A bit more digging and I found the source I mentioned mirrored
here, but it seems like a low key news piece in a minor Australian magazine. (Also, the article doesn't provide in-depth analysis of the organization outside a few superlatives, and quotes an otherwise unnamed "HRWF’s Internet consultant" a lot, which makes it not very independent (it's really is on the level of a rewritten press release, just from NGO, not the more common a for-profit spam variety). Anyway, I guess it is probably the best source we have, but still not enough in light of our source requirements. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 08:20, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete.
Daniel (
talk) 01:09, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete – fails NCORP even in the pre-removal version. Basically a "Web-presence" page for a NN company. —
JohnFromPinckney (
talk) 21:06, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete as per nom. fails NCORP.
Niceguylucky (
talk) 09:00, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete - NCORP requires multiple reliable sources examining the company in detail and addressing it directly; this simply is not the case here
Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 12:40, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Delete Non-notable political candidate.
Oaktree b (
talk) 16:47, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete. People are not automatically notable enough for inclusion in Wikipedia just because they ran as candidates in elections they did not win — no, not even at the presidential level — but this doesn't even try to claim any preexisting notability for other reasons independently of the candidacy, and even the candidacy itself is "referenced" solely to a directory entry rather than any evidence of notability-supporting media coverage in
reliable sources.
Bearcat (
talk) 17:34, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep, the sources dug up by Soman show that this person served in the Beninese
National Assembly, and therefore he passes NPOL.
Devonian Wombat (
talk) 12:24, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep Passes NPOL as deputy in National Assembly. -
Indy beetle (
talk) 06:08, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep passes
WP:NPOL as a member of the Beninese National Assembly. I note to the closer that after those sources appeared showing the subject was a member of the Assembly, no votes of delete have been added. --
Enos733 (
talk) 18:25, 19 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Delete non-notable company that fails
WP:NCORP, likely product of COI/UPE. Also suggest looking into
Plextek and
Plextek RF Integration, both of which seem to fail NCORP as well, created or heavily edited by the same author and part of the same group of companies.
ProcrastinatingReader (
talk) 15:41, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete – Nothing interesting to see here (except level 1 heading misuse). Just a basic business offerings broschure; nobody outside the company cares about it. —
JohnFromPinckney (
talk) 21:18, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete - fails our high standards for companies, found at NCORP
Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 19:14, 18 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Etzedek24, wasn't he a bench player for most of his career? i hardly find that notable.
New3400 (
talk) 17:13, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
He started a few games for the Chiefs, per his PFR page. Regardless,
WP:NGRIDIRON is clear: American football/Canadian football players and head coaches are presumed notable if they have appeared in at least one regular season or post-season game in any one of the following professional leagues: the Arena Football League, the Canadian Football League, the National Football League, the 1960s American Football League, the All-America Football Conference, the United States Football League. He clearly satisfies the relevant notability guideline, it's just a matter of improving his article. I might suggest
withdrawing this as to quickly resolve the issue since he clearly satisfies NGRIDIRON.
Etzedek24(
I'll talk at ya) (
Check my track record) 17:29, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep overwhelmingly passes
WP:NGRIDIRON - ProFootballReference shows that he appeared in 44 professional games in the National Football League over five seasons.--
Paul McDonald (
talk) 19:12, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep Meets
WP:NGRIDIRON. It's true that what's in the article doesn't appear to pass
WP:GNG, but I find it hard to believe additional sources aren't out there.
Papaursa (
talk) 23:51, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep 5-year NFL veterans don't belong at AfD.
LEPRICAVARK (
talk) 17:13, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was keep.
Daniel (
talk) 01:08, 20 February 2021 (UTC)procedural close. A number of the participants below have since been blocked for
abusing multiple accounts, so vacating my close to allow an immediate re-nomination given the original discussion was not clean. Thanks,
Daniel (
talk) 22:22, 14 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Beining on a couple of dirty dozen pages doesn't seem the basis on which to base a blp. Nothing else here that comes close to a gng or ent pass and blp should be better than this. Awards are no longer a free pass to notability.
SpartazHumbug! 14:30, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep I believe she's actually notable. The CNBC reference lists her as one of the most popular porn stars of 2013. She's also interviewed in
Pornography Feminism, which is explicit but also includes biographical information during an interview. She's also been the subject of multiple, if small, independent news stories, as well as having been quoted. For
example. She was notable enough where she was a face of the industry to the media outside of it.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk) 16:09, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep I agree with ScottishFinnishRadish, she does appear to be notable in her field. She also had some newspaper coverage after an appearance in Australia (
1,
2,
3) one (the first link provided) even went as far to call her "one of the world's most famous porn stars." So that along with the CNBC article, there are independent sources outside of the porn industry implying notability and enough non-trivial coverage to pass the GNG in my opinion.
GoldenAgeFan1 (
talk) 18:25, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep Subject seems to passes GNG.
Niceguylucky (
talk) 09:02, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep Sources clearly establish her notability as a notable porn star.
Fatzaof (
talk) 18:18, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete The sourcing is not nearly at the level to pass the actual criteria of GNG. Interviews never count towards passing GNG.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 17:23, 17 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete.
Daniel (
talk) 01:07, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete subject's only notability derives from playing in a single cricket match. While that it enough to get over the extremely low bar of the relevant subject-specific notability guideline, the subject also has to pass the GNG, and it's very unlikely that they got that much coverage from one cricket match. Hut 8.5 12:42, 19 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete.
Daniel (
talk) 01:07, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete subject's only notability derives from playing in a single cricket match. While that is enough to get over the extremely low bar of the relevant subject-specific notability guideline, the subject also has to pass the GNG, and it's very unlikely that they got that much coverage from one cricket match. Nor will it be possible to expand the article from its current very short state. Hut 8.5 12:47, 19 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Delete. A thoroughgoing failure of all notability guidelines and rules.
RobinCarmody (
talk) 20:48, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete. Fails NCRIC due to not having played at the highest domestic level – irrespective of the status afforded matches, playing for one of the minor counties does not meet this standard; in addition Cade's solitary LA match was against a cricket board side, further confirming the lower standard of the match. More importantly this also fails GNG, with no significant coverage found (only passing mentions in local routine cricket reports, and inclusion in the usual wide-ranging databases) and no reason to expect that any exists. wjematherplease leave a message... 11:57, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete. No prejudice to revisiting in the future if more (
reliable) sources are uncovered that demonstrate passing of
WP:GNG.
TheSandDoctorTalk 14:47, 19 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete. A wholly non-notable figure in the context of Wikipedia.
RobinCarmody (
talk) 20:45, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment. More likely to be notable for his extensive minor counties career than 2 LA matches (NOTE: none of these matches meet the "highest domestic level" standard defined by NCRIC); article refocussed accordingly. Any significant coverage is likely to be in offline sources. wjematherplease leave a message... 12:24, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Delete. Non notable cricketer
Rondolinda (
talk) 23:24, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete another in a long line of non-notable cricket players.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 19:54, 17 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Delete. Wholly non-notable; even on a specialist Fandom site he would only merit a cursory mention.
RobinCarmody (
talk) 20:44, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete. Non-notable cricketer. Doesn't meet general notability guidelines.
Rondolinda (
talk) 23:25, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete - Did not play at a high enough level to meet notability.
Dunarc (
talk) 21:37, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete non notable --
Devokewater 10:01, 18 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Delete, a search brought up nothing that would contribute to a GNG pass.
Devonian Wombat (
talk) 12:19, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Delete. I didn't found sufficient coverage that makes him notable. Doesn't meet general notability guidelines.
Rondolinda (
talk) 23:27, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete. Nothing but passing mentions at junior/youth level (e.g. school & university cricket reports), and inclusion in wide ranging databases. Solitary appearance in a F-C match (with little involvement) is not enough to suggest significant coverage exists. Fails GNG. wjematherplease leave a message... 11:48, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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PROD concern was Does not meet
WP:NFILM or
WP:GNG. While
this might look like a good source, it is clearly marked as a press release. This film received no significant coverage or published reviews. The awards received are not major enough to satisfy criterion 3 of NFILM. and was endorsed by
User:Donaldd23 and
User:Kolma8.
PROD removed without providing a reason nor addressing any of the NFILM or GNG concerns presented.
Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 14:13, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete as it fails both GNG and NFILM. I have researched the received awards, IMO, those are not major. That + no significant coverage means fails WP criteria for a stand alone article.
Kolma8 (
talk) 17:27, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
wEAk sPEedY deLeTE per kolma8.--
Alcremie (
talk) 07:47, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete.
BD2412T 06:42, 24 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete another in a long line of non-notable cricket players.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 21:20, 5 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment Remember the good old days when AfD debates such as the original for this article were populated by people who cared for the cricket project? Of course not, nobody who sends cricket articles for deletion in those days was around back then when they could easily have been finding sources for themselves.
Bobo. 21:33, 5 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Daniel (
talk) 14:06, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete. I didn't found sufficient coverage that makes him notable. Doesn't meet general notability guidelines.
Rondolinda (
talk) 23:38, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Weak Delete as notability is not evident.
Bobo192 makes a curious point in reference to
the original AfD over 10 years ago, and although there was a slight keep pile-on back then, I don't see any evidence that notability has been established in the time passed. Although observing the guidelines set out per
WP:CRIN, I don't see how this article could be developed or determine the subject as being notable. Bungle(
talk •
contribs) 10:16, 21 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The odd thing is that, unlike many others which have been put forward for deletion, this player has played within (most of) our lifetimes. I wonder if this makes it more possible that print sources are available to those who have access to archives. I mean this in the nicest way possible, but of all the articles put up to AfD, this is probably the least appropriate player to make this argument for. This guy has played within our lifetimes.
Bobo. 11:01, 21 February 2021 (UTC)reply
It isn't totally out of the question that print/book sources may exist, but simply
assuming they do doesn't mean they do. I vote weakly as I take the points mentioned that there is a "possibility" that notability may be there, but it isn't proven and there is no evidence based on available material. Bungle(
talk •
contribs) 11:18, 21 February 2021 (UTC)reply
I will continue to make this argument however many people throw arguments against WP:PRESUME or others at me.
Bobo. 11:26, 21 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment I forgot to make this comment all that time ago, but at least a "Players by team" article exists for this time.
Bobo. 11:26, 21 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete Maybe instead of lamenting that no editor has added sources since the nomination we should remark that no editor has added one single significant reference in the >9.5 years since this was nominated the first time. For that little effort, there's nothing worth
WP:PRESERVEing. One reference to a bare database entry fulfills neither
WP:NCRIC nor
WP:GNG.
Eggishorn(talk)(contrib) 22:50, 23 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was no consensus.
Daniel (
talk) 22:49, 19 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The article does not meet
WP:GNG,
WP:ORG and the
WP:SIRS required for an private organization. Couldn't find a single independent significant RS coverage let alone multiple required for notability. The article was deprodded by the creator.
Roller26 (
talk) 19:29, 29 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 16:04, 5 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Daniel (
talk) 14:03, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was Redirect to
A-Reece. The only "delete" vote was expressed weakly and the sole "keep" noted contentious sources. Article history will remain if better sources can be found. (
non-admin closure) Bungle(
talk •
contribs) 19:10, 19 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep: The sources indicated in the previous AfD are reliable. Too bad no one bothered to improve the article and add them after the previous AfD was closed. I also found a couple more reliable sources which talk about the album:
[24] and
[25]. It's also discussed in this
listicle. That said, the article is good enough to pass
WP:NALBUM. ASTIG😎(
ICE T •
ICE CUBE) 16:00, 1 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Your first source is a four-line introduction to a link to stream the album, the second is a collective blog that doesn't pass WP:RS. Of the sources in the previous AfD, Unorthodox Reviews is also a blog... I'm not sure about the other two at the moment.
Richard3120 (
talk) 14:57, 2 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Daniel (
talk) 14:02, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Redirect to
A-Reece#Discography. The sources are unreliable, there is no significant coverage in multiple reliable independent sources, plus no chartings, certifications, or accolades. Clearly fails
WP:NALBUMS. --
Ashleyyoursmile! 12:04, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Redirect to
A-Reece. Sources are unreliable. Not much information for a standalone article. If this page is re-created, then it should be protected.
HĐ (
talk) 13:24, 17 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete.
Daniel (
talk) 01:06, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Currently only sourced with primary sourcing, no in-depth coverage. Searches did not turn up anything either.
Onel5969TT me 13:07, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete - Good luck to him as he gets started, but he has not yet progressed beyond minor promotions created by himself or his management, who are the only parties calling him a "leading" voice of his generation. Wait for someone else to say it first. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (
TALK|
CONTRIBS) 16:23, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep He is called as a "leading voices among Ethiopia’s emerging generation" by non Ethiopian owned media,
coca-cola.co.ug. There is no ground to say it is "created by himself or his management". It is better to have a discussion regarding to the
WP:Policy. -
YitbeA-21 06:30, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The CocaCola site is just advertising, not music journalism. Note all the
puffery like "hit maker" (with no evidence of reaching any official charts}, "heartthrob", "eye-catching", "much anticipated" album (with no news sources mentioning such anticipation or that the album is even in production), or "accolades" (from a little-known awards ceremony). None of that adds up to "leading". ---DOOMSDAYER520 (
TALK|
CONTRIBS) 15:25, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete The only coverage of him seems to be in advertising. -
Indy beetle (
talk) 06:10, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Article is being repeatedly redirected and restored. Listing for consensus on whether this should be kept as a BLP or redirected noting
WP:INHERIT. Is the father if Britney Spears independently notable given appearance in recent news events? Polyamorph (
talk) 13:00, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Redirect - notability is not inherited, and there is nothing that is not based on his relationship with his daughter. After redirection, protect from recreation.
Onel5969TT me 13:48, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep for now I would have agreed with the above until quite recently, but he seems to have become a public figure in his own right because of the controversy about the conservatorship, which has resulted in the public spotlight becoming focused on him as an individual. (See any news search for his name today.) If this turns out to be wrong, the article can always be re-merged into the
Britney Spears article. --
The Anome (
talk) 14:27, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Redirect and protect redirect this to
Britney Spears because he's not notable enough to receive his own article and inherits much of notability from his daughter and events around the two.
ₛₒₘₑBₒdyₐₙyBₒdy₀₅ (
talk) 14:30, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Redirect The sole narrative of
WP:SIGCOV of this individual is in the context of his daughter's estate. This is in the spirit of
WP:BLP1E, if not the literal interpretation. I don't find any significant coverage of him otherwise. If there is future coverage that is not just about Britney or the conservatorship, the redirect can easily be reverted and a proper
biography filled in.
Schazjmd(talk) 16:21, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
comment having seen Lowellian's suggestion, I don't have a strong opinion on whether it should redirect to Britney or Jamie Lynn. I don't know if most readers would be searching for the father (
WP:RECENTISM) or the daughter when searching for "jamie spears".
Schazjmd(talk) 00:32, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Redirect to
Jamie Lynn Spears, notBritney Spears.Jamie Lynn Spears is more notable than her father, and "Jamie Spears" in public discourse commonly referred to her until recent news, and the father should not be overemphasized due to
WP:RECENTISM. We can then add a hatlink to the
Jamie Lynn Spears article pointing to
Britney Spears for those looking for the father's conservatorship role. —
Lowellian (
reply) 00:22, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Redirect to
Jamie Lynn Spears per above; once the buzz around the documentary dies down this should be far more clear-cut a decision.
Gnomingstuff (
talk) 05:54, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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non-notable game, release is nearly a year away, hasn't received any coverage (and no, reddit hype doesn't count)
CUPIDICAE💕 11:43, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete No significant coverage at this time, and the prose reads like a promotional press release outlining upcoming seasons. Even if kept it would need significant cleanup.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk) 16:07, 16 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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This page could easily be merged into the Future Nostalgia article, as it does not have enough information to stand on its own. Due Lipa's
first album has various editions, too, including a re-issue called Complete Edition, and we also didn't make a separate article for that version of the album.
Sricsi (
talk) 08:36, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
As per how it stands right now, Delete. If there are more reliable sources that can establish the notability of the article in the future, yeah. But right now it looks like redundancy. — Tom(T2ME) 09:58, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete and redirect - this has been created
WP:TOOSOON and speculatively. There are tonnes of albums that have re-releases. Future Nostalgia has many re-releases but there is not enough information to ascertain that this version of the album is going to get 'x' amount of coverage to warrant an independent article. If in the end, the chart positions and sales are counted towards a single listing for Future Nostalgia, then absolutely a separate article is not warranted. ≫
Lil-Unique1-{
Talk }- 10:35, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge - it's a plausible search term, but otherwise, we generally just cover deluxe edition re-releases within the already existing album article. No need for a split.
Sergecross73msg me 18:53, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge and redirect to
Future Nostalgia - I would have assumed this would pass the notability threshold with album reviews, but as it currently stands, this should be merged into the main article (
WP:CRYSTALBALL,
WP:TOOSOON).--NØ 13:25, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge and redirect per above. It's just a reissue. There is no article for Lipa's Dua Lipa: Complete Edition for example. --
Kuatrero (
talk) 01:18, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge and redirect to Future Nostalgia per above. Maybe it will gain notability in the future.
LOVI33 17:29, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge and redirect to Future Nostalgia for reasons listed above. As well, I’d like it if there was a section in the article dedicated to the moonlight edition, with its own Infobox and everything. That would save a lot of confusion with the main Infobox. D💘ggy54321(
xoxo😘) 20:40, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
^ Since the decision is quite clear, can we close this early? --
Sricsi (
talk) 20:50, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
As much as I want to close this (non-admin closure), I think those who voted could not close. Pinging some coordinators could help.
HĐ (
talk) 06:08, 17 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Given an overwhelming consensus to merge/redirect, I shall close this as a non-admin as it is not controversial at all. Just notice the AFD needs seven days before proceeding. Let's wait.
HĐ (
talk) 03:33, 19 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Keep Possibly a bad nomination, has appeared in several shows. -
Cupper52Discuss! 09:24, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep, another one that meets
WP:NACTOR as Bhowmik has had significant roles in multiple notable films.
Coolabahapple (
talk) 12:38, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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Keep I have made revisions and added more sources to this article, and per
WP:NACTOR, Chakraborty "Has had significant roles in multiple notable films," including but not limited to her role as Satyabati in Anjan Dutt's film adaptations of Byomkesh Bakshi, and she has a significant role in the television show Sreemoyee. Based on the sources that were in the article and the ones I have added, Chakraborty appears to meet
WP:GNG; the news coverage over the past decade also extends beyond her acting career and includes her academic studies and personal/political/family life; it also appears that additional sources are likely to exist, per
WP:NEXIST.
Beccaynr (
talk) 17:28, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep per rescue described above,
Sadads (
talk) 14:37, 15 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was redirect to
Media portrayals of bisexuality. Consensus is against keeping. It's up to editors to determine whether and what to merge. Sandstein 10:47, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Completely redundant to other articles (
WP:REDUNDANTFORK), especially
Media portrayals of bisexuality and
List of fictional bisexual characters (and its sublists) which are much more sourced than this is. This is a complete mess, being almost entirely unsourced and made up of original research (probably
slashfic/fanfiction-type wishful thinking behind more than a few of the entries that have accreted over the years; actual quote from one entry: "Bisexuality simple fact") and has been tagged for OR and lack of sources for over 5 years. Of the very few that are sourced, many are from unreliable sources. It would need
WP:TNT even if it were a valid topic, which it's not since, as I said, this is completely covered better by many other articles. Crossroads-talk- 06:41, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom; low-quality and entirely redundant. (Unrelated, boy is that a lot of discussion categories.)
Vaticidalprophet (
talk) 07:59, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Kolma8, that is why I am proposing it be merged with the
List of fictional bisexual characters page. I think there is value in the entries, but I also don't want duplication either. Kolma8, I also agree with your suggestion to change the page into a redirect if the merger with the
List of fictional bisexual characters is not possible.
Historyday01 (
talk) 16:57, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep: Article meets WP:CLN WP:AOAL as a navigation list. Article is too large to fit well into another article and will certainly grow. //
Timothy ::
talk 08:22, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The problem is that we already have such a list at
List of fictional bisexual characters, which sends readers to many sublists as well. Those pages actually have been trying to exercise quality control. This is therefore a crappy fork. "Growing" is the problem here. This unsourced junk shouldn't be fit anywhere (the aforementioned list articles are made up of sublists). Crossroads-talk- 17:02, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge. I agree with the argument by Timothy Blue more than the argument by Vaticidalprophet, as I would not say it is "low-quality and entirely redundant." However, I would say it shares a lot with the
List of fictional bisexual characters page, so I would propose that it be merged with that page.
Historyday01 (
talk) 14:03, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The entries that are not reliably sourced should not be copied anywhere but deleted, per
WP:BURDEN and
WP:NOR. I know for a fact that many of them are false with no sources for them; I already deleted one as an example. Some of the entries here are
WP:PRIMARY sourced, which is also bad because OR is often involved in interpreting the primary source. Crossroads-talk- 17:02, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
I have already copied them to a sandbox, as I was planning to go through them all, but I'm really only talking about the reliably-sourced entries here and think they could easily be merged with the
List of fictional bisexual characters and turned into a redirect to that page.
Historyday01 (
talk) 17:09, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Just be sure that the only ones kept are the ones that reliable sources identify as definitely and canonically bisexual. A source talking about fan speculation or saying 'we want them to be' is not enough. Crossroads-talk- 19:41, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
For sure. Today I moved all the reliable sourced entries to the
List of fictional bisexual characters and newly created
List of bisexual characters in television page, while all the other entries are sitting in one of my sandboxes and I'm going through them one by one, adding them (if there is a reliable source) to the appropriate list page. That's my plan at least. --
Historyday01 (
talk) 19:55, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete or merge as complicated, and I'm referring to the video game portion. A list like this is very debatable; in a lot of these games, the choice is optional. In some video games, like those choose-your-own-adventure games on mobile devices, they give you the option of being in a relationship with either man or woman because they have no way to determine either what your gender or preference is. In these cases, it would be the player being bisexual, not the character or game.
Panini🥪 14:28, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete –
WP:OR magnet. Some of the listed items are clearly under LGBTQ umbrella, but listing them bi on the basis of some OR (as in: not a reference in sight) claiming that the characters are portrayed fluid... as if. --
Francis Schonken (
talk) 15:34, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge and clean-up I honestly think the list article is better than
Media portrayals of bisexuality, and the list should be kept with the other article merged into it (refs specifically, where available). It needs some clean-up, but it's valuable; indeed, it is more valuable than the not-list article, which is mostly a prose list without any clear encyclopedic discussion of the portrayals and different importance given to certain characters/shows that seems to come from editor bias of their favorites. I.e. just having the list is serving the same function and much more NPOV. I also think the list serves a distinct purpose to the
List of fictional bisexual characters - that list is of characters that either self-identify as bisexual or have been identified by outside parties to be bisexual, while the portrayals list is broader to include portrayals of bisexual identification as well as non-identified bisexual behavior and various fictional bisexual characters, i.e. those (especially in old works and recent "woke" works) that don't use labels but are clearly still important representation. It needs clean-up; everything without a ref should at least be hidden for now, and "fluid" is a dubious category. But it's the better article of the "media portrayals of" ones.
Kingsif (
talk) 18:02, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
I have to disagree on that point. I would say that it would be better to move the entries on the existing list which have reliable sources in the
List of fictional bisexual characters, then turn the page into a redirect. As for the
Media portrayals of bisexuality page, it clearly needs work and that is going to be one of the next pages I'm going to try and improve, section by section.
Historyday01 (
talk) 18:05, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
No. Bisexual characters and media portrayals of bisexuality are distinct categories, did you not manage to comprehend my comment? If any of the three should be deleted, it should be
Media portrayals of bisexuality. It's a NPOV nightmare that has no more useful content than the list, and is much harder to read. Since it's much easier to make and keep the list clean, that's what should be done, no questions. You're right we don't need all three, and the lists are more valuable, but distinct enough to keep both.
Kingsif (
talk) 18:13, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
I did read your comment. I agree with you that "Bisexual characters and media portrayals of bisexuality are distinct categories" which is why I would argue that the
Media portrayals of bisexuality should be kept (albeit thoroughly cleaned up to be much better, so it isn't a "NPOV nightmare" as you point out), while the
List of media portrayals of bisexuality can be turned into a redirect to the
List of fictional bisexual characters page after all the entries with reliable sources are moved from the main page. This would reduce redundancy between the two pages. And the fact that the unsourced entries won't be there anymore shouldn't be a concern, as I've already copied all of that to a sandbox and am planning on going through every entry, adding a source (if there is one), then adding it to the
List of fictional bisexual characters or any other relevant page. I'd further say that the
List of fictional bisexual characters and
Media portrayals of bisexuality pages have value, although the latter is couched by what I said earlier. I agree with you that the lists are valuable, but I'd also say that analysis pages, when done right, can be valuable too.
Historyday01 (
talk) 18:21, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
I agree with you on I think everything in this comment.
Kingsif (
talk) 20:39, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
I don't see how media portrayals are meaningfully different from characters. Portrayals of bisexuality are portrayals of bisexual (behaviorally) characters. We need RS identifying the characters as bisexual/engaging in bisexuality regardless of exact title. The better one's lead can be modified if needed; however, the sourcing standard has to be the same no matter the title, and "non-identified bisexual behavior" is an invitation to commit OR because some fans see almost anything as bisexual behavior. My main point is that we don't need or want two 'lists of bisexuality in fiction', and the one that should be deleted is the one that is mostly OR. As for the prose "media portrayals" page, whatever work that needs is a separate matter. Crossroads-talk- 19:41, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
I can agree with you that the media portrayals page needs work, but I would say that rather than deleting the list, it should be turned into a redirect to the
List of fictional bisexual characters page.
Historyday01 (
talk) 19:50, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
we don't need or want two 'lists of bisexuality in fiction' - then merge them into different lists in the same article, with clear referencing needs and an appropriately broad title. the prose "media portrayals" page, whatever work that needs is a separate matter - it's not a separate matter since it's nothing more than a prose, NPOV, version of the list. If you want to argue the list is pointless, so is the prose article; if it isn't, then one of them is redundant. Some form of merging, no deleting, is necessary and the clear solution, and obviously everything needs references to avoid fanwank and OR - nobody is disputing that. But I highly question your knowledge of anything relating to queer media if you genuinely don't see how media portrayals are meaningfully different from characters. Characters are, in the material, identified explicitly with a label. The label of bisexual is recent, to the last few decades. Yet there are many works of fiction before then with characters which portray bisexuality and are important representation. It's also possible to have characters that explicitly aren't bisexual and still portray bisexuality; take homosexual characters that had heterosexual relationships before coming out. The two are distinct, and both significant.
Kingsif (
talk) 20:27, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
My "knowledge of anything relating to queer media" says that when it comes to "many works of fiction before then with characters which portray bisexuality", if there are sources so identifying them, the same entry can be put in the other list(s). It's the same thing as is done for real historical persons. If the character/person was not called "bisexual" in their own time, but is now considered so by the sources, then it counts. As for the latter example, there of course still needs sources calling that bisexuality (which may not be done in some such scenarios for the reason that it contradicts their true orientation), so we're again back in the same spot - it can go in the other list as a (behaviorally) bisexual character. A media portrayal of bisexuality is a bisexual character, even if how they ended up on the relevant list isn't from saying "I'm bisexual" but from consistently being identified as such by reliable sources. That's already how the other list works. Crossroads-talk- 05:03, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
I will say, on a related note, that I am currently working on completely revamping the
Media portrayals of bisexuality page and will be done in a couple days. I'm trying to base it around either GLAAD reports or other sources which mention important bisexuals, rather than the current format. I'm planning on doing the same thing for the
Media portrayal of lesbianism page and the
Media portrayals of transgender people page too. Just have to do one page at a time.
Historyday01 (
talk) 06:08, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
So, Crossroads, what you want is actually a merge. The List of bisexual characters currently explicitly excludes those that are not labeled bisexual, even with sources. So my suggestion to create different lists in the same article with a broader title (the "portrayals of bisexuality" would be suitably broad for both, in fact) for all the sourced entries is actually what you seem to want. You're still infuriatingly mistaken by saying A media portrayal of bisexuality is a bisexual character. No, no it isn't. And that incorrect assumption will be perpetuated if editors like you insist on conflating them in lists.
Kingsif (
talk) 06:24, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
I agree with Kingsif on that point. A media portrayal is not necessarily a character. There can be bisexual series, music, film, etc. That is the limit of a page only focused on characters.
Historyday01 (
talk) 14:09, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
List of fictional bisexual characters opens by saying, This is a list of fictional characters that either self-identify as bisexual or have been identified by outside parties to be bisexual. (emphasis added). I don't see how it excludes anything. And despite any possible difference in the names, this is a de facto character list anyway. The concept of a "bisexual series" and the like seems very fuzzy and like an OR magnet, and I consider it unlikely there are sources that call a series but none of its characters bisexual, but if that did occur that can be discussed in the prose "media portrayals" article. Crossroads-talk- 19:34, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The fictional characters list only includes fictional characters. In terms of a bisexual series, there would need to be reliable sourcing that such a series is out there, which I imagine exists. I'm saying that bisexual representation goes beyond just the characters. The characters list is fine, but there is also a place for a analysis page too which shows how that representation changes over time.
Historyday01 (
talk) 20:21, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete Per
WP:INDISCRIMINATE. At this point it's the same as listing "media portrayals of coffee shops", in other words it appears too often for a list to be necessary. It's also far too much of a magnet for original research as opposed to actual confirmed bisexual characters.ZXCVBNM (
TALK) 23:32, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
But, Zxcvbnm, would you support turning the page into a redirect to the
List of fictional bisexual characters page? I think this page largely duplicates that one, at least in subject, since it has "actual confirmed bisexual characters" and is not indiscriminate.
Historyday01 (
talk) 23:48, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The names are like apples and oranges; a redirect seems totally unnecessary, if not confusing.ZXCVBNM (
TALK) 10:37, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment Also note that even though Historyday says they have moved all sourced entries to
List of fictional bisexual characters, this list does not include any characters from comics, podcasts, television, and other media. It's incomplete, so even if people can't get their head around the fact portrayal of bisexuality is not the same as a bisexual character (first example to come to mind: Kissing Jessica Stein is a movie about a woman trying to work out if she's bisexual and decides she isn't, but it's certainly bisexual canon), a merge at least is damn necessary.
Kingsif (
talk) 22:48, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Comics and podcasts, the few that are reliably sourced, can still just go in
List of fictional bisexual characters (also, those podcasts appear to be non-notable and primary-sourced; don't we avoid listing non-notable media because pretty soon you end up listing random personal webpages?). There's also
List of graphic art works with LGBT characters, which isn't bisexual-specific and needs work, but does cover the comics topic. Television is absolutely covered at
List of bisexual characters in television, which was probably size-split from the general list in the past and is linked from the lead. Kissing Jessica Stein can go in
Media portrayals of bisexuality (it's in the current list as depicting "fluid" bisexuality, which is of course unsourced). Crossroads-talk- 23:20, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Kingsif, let me say that the List of fictional bisexual characters does have sections for "graphic novels" and "webcomics," which I would say comprises comics. As for podcasts, they are currently on the
List of LGBT characters in radio and podcasts page (split from the aforementioned list page), with other LGBTQ characters, and the television characters are on their own specific page (
List of bisexual characters in television), as are anime (
List of bisexual characters in anime) and Western animation characters (
List of bisexual characters in animation). But, yes, you are right that the fictional bisexual characters page is "incomplete" in the way you pointed out, and a merge makes sense. So, Crossroads, comics can definitely be incorporated into the List of fictional bisexual characters, while podcasts can go into the page I previously mentioned. And yes, there is a
List of graphic art works with LGBT characters which definitely "needs work," and I'd like to also mention the
List of webcomics with LGBT characters too, which includes bisexual and other LGBTQ characters. So, yes, you are right that "television is absolutely covered at
List of bisexual characters in television." And yes, it was "size-split from the general list" (originally from a page titled "LGBT characters in television and radio" (now called the "List of LGBT characters in radio and podcasts"). But, sure Kissing Jessica Stein can go in
Media portrayals of bisexuality, but it is an example of something which is a portrayal which isn't a character. And again, sourcing of these pages is important.
Historyday01 (
talk) 23:49, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
So, there's a lot of articles that probably need a MAIN or some navigation template, and a lot of clean-up, and just proposing to delete one of them is no help at all. If Historyday has copied all the current text into a draft (if not, I will) then we can at least start moving and merging, pruning examples. Nobody here wants to keep all the unsourced "fluid" or "fans interpret" examples, but there's enough good material to fix. It wouldn't even need TNT because it's a list. You can hide items so easily while working on it.
Kingsif (
talk) 00:49, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The title/concept is redundant and the content is unacceptable. That's why it's been nominated. Most (perhaps all) of the would-be legit entries are already covered better in the good lists, and the rest can be. Crossroads-talk- 02:10, 14 February 2021 (UTC)reply
@
Kingsif, I have actually moved all the text, apart from some entries I already moved to other pages, into
a sandbox for now, so examples can be pruned there as you put it.
Historyday01 (
talk) 15:13, 19 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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There are three articles on this topic, this one in mainspace and two in drafts:
Draft:Titoo - Har Jawab Ka Sawal Hu and
Draft:Titoo – Har Jawaab Ka Sawaal Hu. This article should be deleted, it's a substub and not ready for mainspace, this will make way for the more developed of the two draft articles to be moved; the other draft should be deleted. //
Timothy ::
talk 06:40, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment Redirects and copy/paste content moves have been created. It appears the article history is
here, its behind a acouple of redirects. //
Timothy ::
talk 10:43, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Reply: Yes, I think the original page history is here
[26] from Nov 2020. I don't think the subject is notable (at this time), coverage all looks promo, so deleting/redirecting it all might be the consensus. Hope the closing admin has a good mop. //
Timothy ::
talk 20:28, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete all mainspace versions. This sort of duplication of draft content is unseemly, and the topic has not yet been demonstrated to be notable.
BD2412T 06:37, 24 February 2021 (UTC)reply
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The result was no consensus - no prejudice against filing another AfD. Basically, the points made between everyone cancel each other out. I don't think there's going to be an agreement on this one.
Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 11:46, 22 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Minimal, announcement-oriented coverage in reliable sources. The NYT coverage is actually VentureBeat. Nearly everything cited is a routine business announcement or not a reliable source, and the article only documents the company's existence. Fails to meet
WP:NCORP.
FalconK (
talk) 05:44, 19 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Northern Escapee (
talk) 06:27, 27 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Note to closer for soft deletion: This nomination has had limited participation and falls within the standards set for
lack of quorum. There are no previous AfD discussions, undeletions, or current redirects and no previous PRODs have been located. This nomination may be eligible for
soft deletion at the end of its 7-day listing. --
Cewbot (
talk) 00:02, 4 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Eddie891TalkWork 18:38, 4 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent
reliable sources.
The article includes criticism of the company: "HealthTap requires only that its physicians be licensed in the United States and in good standing — that is, not accused of malfeasance. Lamentably, it does not use board certification to establish a floor for qualifications required for physicians to participate. ... Another worrisome aspect is the breeziness of HealthTap’s answers, which are limited to 400 characters, a length hardly well-suited for providing nuanced answers to some medical questions. ... Dr. Peter W. Carmel, president of the American Medical Association, says he is concerned about the use of online medical information, which should “complement, not replace, the communication between a patient and their physician,” he wrote in an e-mail."
The article includes critical analysis about HealthTap: "I’m dubious that loads of consumers will be willing to pay that much, especially on top of existing insurance premiums, given the limitations of mobile medicine. Doctors can only prescribe certain drugs remotely, while blood tests and other diagnostics still require in-person visits. Telemedicine makes perfect sense in and of itself, especially for relatively healthy people who only need to check in with their doctors occasionally and don’t want the hassle of physically getting to a clinic. But HealthTap’s rivals in the space are generally charging less, at least for the basic level of these services."
The book notes: "HealthTap is building a patient-focused health information service, starting with a mobile application that anyone can run on most any device. For a patient, the experience is simple: Tap a button, ask a question, get an answer. Behind the scenes, HealthTap is processing vast datasets, using machine-learning, natural language processing, and voice recognition, to find answers to the questions that are asked. It's almost like having a doctor in your pocket, anytime you need her. There are currently over 55,000 doctors using the application and providing answers. Like any network, as the users (patients and doctors) increase, the value of the network increases, often exponentially."
The article notes, "HealthTap is best known for its question and answer website, where consumers can submit questions limited to 150 characters, answered by a pool of 60,000 doctors from across the U.S. That service has 10 million active users and is free with no ads. Prime is how HealthTap could start making money."
Delete I note that Cunard is using the GNG as the applicable guidelines to decide on notability and not
WP:NCORP which is for organizations/companies. Also, as per
the clear consensus at this recent RfC from Jan 2021 (which is to decide wording to describe *current* practice), it acknowledges the strict significant coverage requirements spelled out in the SNG for organisations and companies. In summary, references that rely on "echo chamber" information/opinions/etc (i.e. articles that rely entirely on information provided in announcements, quotations, interviews, partners, financial data, etc) fail the criteria for establishing notability.
There are two primary sections within NCORP that are applicable.
WP:CORPDEPTH requires Deep or significant coverage provides an overview, description, commentary, survey, study, discussion, analysis, or evaluation of the product, company, or organization and
WP:ORGIND requires "Independent content" which is described as original and independent opinion, analysis, investigation, and fact checking that are clearly attributable to a source unaffiliated to the subject.
Assuming that Cunard put his best references at the start, I'll focus on the first five. In summary, *all* of the above references fail the criteria for establishing notability.
1. NYT has no Independent Content. The quotation about physicians being licensed and in good standing is directly attributable to the company. The quotation from the president of the American Medical Association makes no mention of this company and there's no indication that his comment is directed at this company and not the industry in general.
2. Vox reference is based on a company announcements and preview of an update to their product version including pricing. While there is an opinion provided by the journalist, the reference does not provide any in-depth information on the company and fails
WP:CORPDEPTH
3 Wired reference is based entirely on an interview with Ron Gutman ,a founder of the company, and information/statistics provided by the company. It is an echo-chamber article and fails
WP:ORGIND.
4 Book reference provides a very short overview of Healthtap but it is neither in-depth nor significant. It also fails to provide any Independent content as it is merely reciting facts and data about the company which were provided by the company (e.g. the statements about using machine-learning, NLP and voice recognition, the number of doctors on the platform, etc).
5. The Forbes reference is from the "sites" section but was written by a staff member. That section of the website is widely acknowledged as not having editorial oversight and fails
WP:RS. The reference itself relies entirely on a "demo" provided by the company founder, fails
WP:ORGIND.
References fail
WP:NCORP (the applicable guideline for companies/organizations), topic fails the criteria for establishing notability.
HighKing++ 12:13, 8 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Deep or significant coverage provides an overview, description, commentary, survey, study, discussion, analysis, or evaluation of the product, company, or organization. Such coverage provides an organization with a level of attention that extends well beyond brief mentions and routine announcements, and makes it possible to write more than a
very brief, incomplete stub about the organization.
The New York Times article has substantial analysis about the company. It writes (my bolding), "HealthTap requires only that its physicians be licensed in the United States and in good standing — that is, not accused of malfeasance. Lamentably, it does not use board certification to establish a floor for qualifications required for physicians to participate". This is direct criticism from the journalist about HealthTap's deficiencies. Another quote from the article is (my bolding) "Another worrisome aspect is the breeziness of HealthTap’s answers, which are limited to 400 characters, a length hardly well-suited for providing nuanced answers to some medical questions." This is further criticism and analysis of the company from The New York Times. It is incorrect to say "NYT has no Independent Content."
The Vox article provides substantial criticism of the company: "I’m dubious that loads of consumers will be willing to pay that much" and "But HealthTap’s rivals in the space are generally charging less, at least for the basic level of these services."
The Wired article provides substantial analysis. It notes (my bolding), "Then there's the price. At $99 a month, the service is cheaper than the average monthly cost of insurance under the Affordable Care Act, and yet, it's still a substantial amount to pay on top of insurance." It also notes (my bolding), "For many patients, empathy, bedside manner, and understanding are some of the most important traits for any physician. ... Building that unprecedented level of comfort is a challenge HealthTap, and indeed, the rest of the telehealth industry, will have to overcome."
The book provides roughly 200 words of coverage about the company under a heading titled "HealthTap". It provides an overview of the company's work so meets the "deep or significant coverage" requirement of the guideline.
Regarding "The Forbes reference is from the "sites" section but was written by a staff member. That section of the website is widely acknowledged as not having editorial oversight and fails
WP:RS." – every article under
https://www.forbes.com/ is under the "sites" section, regardless of whether it's written by
a staff member or
a contributor. To say that the "sites" section "is widely acknowledged as not having editorial oversight and fails
WP:RS" for both staff members and contributors is incorrect. Only the contributor articles lack editorial oversight. All staff articles do have editorial oversight. The article provides an overview of a HealthTap offering. It includes independent research such as noting that there are "cheaper" services like HealthTap: "While there are other, sometimes cheaper, “telemedicine” services out there like LifeHealth Online and American Well, Gutman says he’s trying to build a marketplace for doctors that's a little Amazon."
Response Cunard, the references must pass *all* of the criteria in NCORP, you can't just pluck s couple and then say the sources pass. You haven't addresses the fact that once the articles are held up against ORGIND, you're left with one or two comments here and there - and those comments don't amount to in-depth coverage.
For example, you've picked two sentences from the New York Times article where the journalist voices an opinion. But that's it, there's nothing else remaining in the article once you discard those parts that are attributable to the company. The sentence starting with Lamentably is followed by The company says... so the fact about the licensing of physicians is attributable to the company and the *only* independent content is the journalist repeating this fact and preceding the sentence with "Lamentably". The comment on "Another worrisome aspect" isn't even about the company but about their app. Having one or two bare "opinions" with no in-depth commentary or discussion on those opinions does not pass CORPDEPTH.
The same criticism can be leveled at the Vox article - the article is based entirely on a company announcement and we get one single sentence where the journalist expresses one single opinion on his doubt that consumers will be willing to pay. There's nothing else. That is not enough to pass CORPDEPTH.
The same criticism applies to the Wired article. It is en interview, all the information about the company originates from company sources and the $99 per month opinion formed part of the interview itself and the executive responded. Taking a single comment out of context, as you've done, is a misleading practice.
You claim that all of those sources meet the criteria for Deep or significant coverage provides an overview, description, commentary, survey, study, discussion, analysis, or evaluation of the product, company, or organization but when you remove the information provided by the company from the articles, there is barely anything remaining other than the odd sentence here or there that you've highlighted. The purpose of CORPDEPTH is that the *journalist* has to provide the information, not simply write down exactly the information the company provided and then make a comment here or there.
HighKing++ 14:24, 20 February 2021 (UTC)reply
That some of the articles include quotations from people affiliated with the company does not make the entire articles non-independent. The sources have independent research, reporting, and analysis about the company as I pointed out in the quotations.
Cunard (
talk) 00:55, 21 February 2021 (UTC)reply
I agree and that's why you need to go through each article and discard everything that isn't clearly attributable to a source unaffiliated with the company (as per ORGIND). The trouble with the articles you've pointed to is that once you do that, there's nothing left. Certainly nothing that meets in-depth coverage. The odd quote here and there is all you (and I) have managed to isolate. There's no point in trying to then argue that 1, 2 or even 3 sentences meets
WP:CORPDEPTH.
HighKing++ 20:10, 21 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete. References are the classic bad sources per NCORP (
WP:ORGIND "dependent coverage"). Forbes non-staff, VentureBeat etc. There is no "New York Times article". This discussion is being tactically flooded.
— Alalch Emis (
talk) 12:00, 11 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: One last go-round for more discussion now that sources are being asserted
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ♠
PMC♠
(talk) 04:18, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The New Zealand Herald article does "focu[s] on the app's failure and how it cost their government millions". This is a source I overlooked in my list of sources above. This source strongly contributes to notability in being an independent source that has very negative material about HealthTap such as:
• A particular driver of HealthTap's poor reputation was its design for the US health-care market, which meant it had attributes that were strongly at odds with Waikato Hospital's clinical culture;
That this very negative source is cited in the article is a very strong indication that non-paid editors have contributed to the article.
文丹楓; 韋紹鋒 (2018).
互聯網+醫療:移動互聯網時代的醫療健康革命 [Internet + Medical: Medical and Health Revolution in the Era of Mobile Internet] (in Chinese). New Taipei City: 崧燁文化事業有限公司. pp.
114–
116.
ISBN9789865603526. Retrieved 2021-02-22.
The book covers HealthTap on three full pages (pages 114–116). It does not include quotes from people affiliated with the company
Coverage about the inquiry into HealthTap in New Zealand:
"Where the service offered through the HealthTap platform met a particular clinical need, it performed well."
HealthTap's operating model did not fit well with the New Zealand healthcare context, and the application had usability issues in the Waikato DHB operating environment. This meant that: (1) the "off-the-shelf" HealthTap platform was very United States-focused when it went live in the Waikato, which alienated local clinicians and consumers seeking to use it; and (2) considerable unanticipated time and expense was put into tailoring the platform to Waikato's outpatient model and IT requirements, and tailoring the content and functions for New Zealand users."
"The implementation of the HealthTap platform lacked a clear direction, transparency, or open communication, which was a significant barrier for organisational and sector support of it"
The "Part 2" of the report discusses has sections titled "What is HealthTap Inc?" and "How does the HealthTap platform work?" It is part of
an extensive 66-page report about HealthTap.
Articles about HealthTap's use in New Zealand, the inquiry, and the report:
"A five-month-long EY [Ernst Young] review of SmartHealth and HealthTap, the American company that powered the service through smart technology, discovered a series of bungles that led to a $9m budget blowout."
"A particular driver of HealthTap's poor reputation was its design for the US health-care market, which meant it had attributes that were strongly at odds with Waikato Hospital's clinical culture"
"The HealthTap contract price was a fixed annual licensing fee that did not reflect staged uptake of SmartHealth and meant the DHB paid the highest price from the outset."
Implementation of HealthTap lacked clear direction, transparency and open communication. "Other health organisations both in Waikato and the wider Midland region were surprised by Waikato's introduction of HealthTap, and organisational relationships suffered as a result.
The article notes, "The finding is one of many in a damning report released Thursday into Waikato DHB's dealings with US start-up company HealthTap, and its SmartHealth product."
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The result was keep. Merge proposals may still be discussed at
Talk:List_of_Hellblazer_characters, but I see no real consensus for that action at this point. Consensus is clearly against outright deletion in this discussion.
Sjakkalle(Check!) 18:09, 22 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep The nomination starts by kvetching about a PROD. The
WP:PROD process is only for uncontroversial deletion and "must only be used if no opposition to the deletion is expected." Piotrus must expect opposition in such cases but still they persist. In this fresh nomination, notice that they don't propose outright deletion and suggest an
alternative instead. So, why did they first propose full deletion?
The character is quite a major one as these things go. They appeared in issue #1 of the relevant comic and have since had their own mini-series, appeared in a major film and as a recurring role in a TV series. As a black character, they naturally attract attention for this reason and so deletion would be especially controversial.
The nomination is therefore quite unconvincing and we should retain the page for further work per our policy
WP:ATD, "If editing can improve the page, this should be done rather than deleting the page."
Week Keep or Selective Merge to
List_of_Hellblazer_characters#Papa_Midnite. This article should not have been PROD'd for the reasons brought up by
Andrew, and the rationale provided by the nominator is just as generic and copy paste as the dePROD response he criticized. My
WP:BEFORE reveal some coverage from
Comicbook.com,
Cinema Blend,
Mashable,
Digital Spy,
Entertainment Weekly,
Flickering Myth,
Hobby Consolas (Spanish),
A.V. Club though mostly in relation or in response to the character's appearances in adaptations/other media. Anyway, there is a difference between the character being noteworthy for coverage on Wikipedia, and whether it warrants a standalone article. Since the issue in contention is clearly the latter and if consensus decides that the existing sourcing does not convincingly meet WP:GNG, a merge may be considered. In any event, a merge proposal should have been done per
WP:ATD and
WP:PRESERVE, with no prejudice for the article to be recreated; more sourcing may turn up in the future given that this character is a recurring one in comics published by DC .
Haleth (
talk) 01:52, 13 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Haleth,
The first source doesn't even mention the subject (did you mix some links?).
Second is a baitclick that does not provide any SIGCOV. It mentions he briefly appeared in the TV, and mentions the subject four times, that's simply calling him an " immortal badass", "a fashionable guy," praising his jacket.
Third is even worse, the subject is mention like two times, and all we get is a one-sentence praise from the show director of the actor; it contributes NOTHING to the topic.
Fourth is a tiny interview with the actor asking him if he will appear in crossovers, he replies he doesn't know of any plans. Again, this contributes NOTHING to the notability. I am stopping my review here, since clearly you did not read the sources and are just using
WP:GOOGLEHITS arguments, and considering the first source is off topic, it's a fail at even this simple task. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 02:58, 22 February 2021 (UTC)reply
You are correct, the first link is wrong, I guess because I scrolled too far down the page before I copy and pasted the link without checking correctly,
so here it is, but I doubt you will change your mind. As for the rest of your...comments, honestly it read like another diatribe. If you read what I wrote in response, my point is that PROD is clearly an inappropriate course of action to begin with, since a cursory search indicates that the character is clearly verifiable and a PROD for the subject would not be uncontroversial. I included sources for the benefit of the participants in this discussion, and everyone is free to decide for themselves whether it meets
WP:GNG. If you are going to be doing a source by source analysis, my suggestion is that you go all the way or don't do it at all. And if you read my original reasoning properly, I am not strongly in favour of this article being kept, but I am open to it being merged or redirected since there is enough coverage in my view that outright deletion is inappropriate or unnecessary per
WP:ATD. I should also point out that you're not even arguing a proper case for deletion since you have presented a valid
WP:ATD solution for this article, to be redirected
List_of_Hellblazer_characters#Papa_Midnite, in your own rationale.
Haleth (
talk) 07:11, 22 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep This would appear to be a notable subject for an article, and given the expansive list of coverage on the subject, it would seem ill-advised to delete the article. While a merge can be considered, I don't see a reason to do so. The article has sourcing already added, and I would disagree with the nominator's assessment of the article not meeting
WP:GNG. EggRoll97(
talk) 08:25, 21 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep there is enough here from Haleth and this can be saved with some work.
Archrogue (
talk) 19:34, 21 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep This is a notable character. The issue here is that this article (just like 99% of all other articles on comic book characters) is terrible.
★Trekker (
talk) 23:18, 21 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment to closer. Please remember AFD is not a vote. No policy based arguments have been presented, and extra sources at that moment, per my review above, fail our requirements (first link doesn't even mention the subject, etc.). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 02:59, 22 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment Your opinion is noted but not accepted. Policies have been cited by other editors. I am not sure if it is appropriate for you as the nominator (unless there's a supporting policy or guideline which I am unaware of), to essentially instruct other editors on how they should be closing this AfD, especially when you are presenting your sentences in a passive aggressive,
WP:BLUDGEON manner towards others in this discussion when the emergent consensus does not seem to be going your way.
Haleth (
talk) 07:11, 22 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Thank you. This is not the first time I've seen similar behaviour.
★Trekker (
talk) 08:51, 22 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge per the suggested target above by Haleth. I don't think there are enough sources to expand the article to a good state, but there probably are for the list article.
Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 11:48, 22 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge to the Hellblazer character article per Haleth. I agree there is not quite enough to keep the article. Merging is the best option here.
Rhino131 (
talk) 14:41, 22 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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The result was delete.
Daniel (
talk) 22:45, 19 February 2021 (UTC)reply
A band that does not appear to have been notable. I have been unable to find any coverage at all in reliable sources about it. The article makes the assertion of notability that their one released single charted at 49 on the
Irish Singles Chart, which would technically pass item 2 at
WP:NBAND. However the website being used to support this information does not appear to be a
WP:RS, and I have had difficulty confirming it elsewhere. Regardless, though,
WP:NBAND states that meeting that requirement may indicate notability, and given the complete lack of coverage on the band in reliable sources, I would argue that in this case, it does not.
Rorshacma (
talk) 00:07, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete. There's no indication in this article that this band released more than one single; apparently they were working on their debut EP in 2013, and no updates to their status have been made since then. More importantly, no significant independent sources have been provided except to establish that their one single spent one week on the Irish singles chart. No news or biographical coverage has been cited. --
Metropolitan90(talk) 04:13, 12 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete. No additional citations since 2012. --
Darubrub (
talk) 18:36, 12 February 2021 (UTC)sock strike--
TheSandDoctorTalk 04:35, 19 February 2021 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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