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To promote misconception is not to serve history. History is concerned with the objective interpretation of events and the actions of people, not the propagation of myth or political agenda.
The one who is right is the one with the facts, not the one with the most popular opinion - Warren Buffet.
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4 July 2024 |
Quality Management Inspection Medal | |
I, [Inspector] No. 108, am honored to award you this medal for your intelligent and assiduous contributions to the quality management inspection process. I appreciate your assistance in improving the "Stable Version" of the Byzantine Empire entry. Always know that you have this humble inspector's gratitude and respect. No. 108 ( talk) 04:57, 10 December 2011 (UTC) |
Hi Romaioi,
I'm having a hard time with these wiki people who keep perpetuating the myth that the Italians were ineffective fighters. Many of them appear to be Brits or Australians who have read nonsense about the Italians and are perpetuating their myths on Wikipedia. Do you have any advice for me on how to deal with such obvious bias and misinformation? AnnalesSchool ( talk) 22:15, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Romaioi. Yes you are right that people rarely change their minds and have such rigid views. But at least in academia, historians are beginning to revise and reappraise the Italian involvement in the war. The problem with Wikipedia is that it is actually prolonging the myths and misinformation and is heavily partisan and bias in approach, so it has become a conservative rather than a progressive force. Also, unfortunately, many people get their information from Wiki these days, because they do not have the time or inclination to research more thoroughly.
It's a long slow process but I am confident that things are actually changing even at Wikipedia. The use of older authors is declining hopefully, those arrogant arm-chair historians, for a younger set who are less inclined to receive their information second or third hand.
AnnalesSchool (
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11:20, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
One other thing I find strange Ramaioi about some Wiki editors, is their lack of common sense when quoting and paraphrasing material. A good example is the Italian attack into France in June 1940. The attack started on the 21st June and by the 24th is was over. Now that left only 3 days of actual fighting. In other words, by the time the Italians got their guns into position, started shelling the French fortifications, is was pretty much over. And yet the Italians are berated for having advanced only 10 kms in some places, and 50 in others. And then the inevitable comparison with the spectacular German blitzkrieg in the north of France. When I try to point out the obvious that the Germans had 3 weeks of fighting on very different terrain, with much more space for mobility, etc. certain Wiki authors reply: Well, what are your sources?? In other words, they will only believe something if it can be quoted and cannot actually synthesize the information before them. In other words, they are like people in the Middle Ages who believed the world was flat because "the sources" told them so, rather than use a bit of common sense and the old grey matter. So many of the Wiki military articles are a ramshackle collection of quotes and paraphrases without actual analysis. A PhD student submitting a thesis will be failed by his professor if he produced a thesis without his own careful analysis of the material, followed by synthesis. It isn't enough to just throw in quote after quote and think you've done a good job. AnnalesSchool ( talk) 11:52, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
I don't think that cowardice is even an issue these days Romaioi. The Italian soldier was no more a coward than the British, German or Frenchman. However, soldiers can display cowardly moments from time to time, but there wasn't anything particularly cowardly with the Italians. Those early defeats where the news-reels show thousands of Italian soldiers surrendering with their hands up can be easily equated with the French or Germans or the Russians surrendering en masse. Once an army is out flanked and out maneuvered, there is little left to do but surrender.
No, the problem is that for too long, Anglo-American writers, many of them popular history writers (but even academics who should know better) have made so many superficial comparisons backed by shoddy/lazy research, that their information was compromised,inadequate, partial, incomplete or obtained from the over-critical Germans who were always ready to pass the blame to the Italians when things went wrong, cultural bias and a visceral dislike of southern Europeans, passing off statements as if they were fact, and blatant lies and misinformation (yes, the English do in fact, tell fibs - horror of horrors!!) that the whole sub-genre of the Italian involvement in the war, really needs a new start. We need to gather all those dusty history books written by people like Shearer and Thackerh, Cruickshank,Levine, Liddell Hart, Mack Smith, and a whole plethora of others, collect them all, and in Trafalgar Square light a huge bonfire and burn them. Then, start all over again on a clean and crystal clear slate. Unfortunately Wikipedia is a cess-pool of such writers, their last refuge in a mosquito-infested swamp! Dark, murky and insalubrious.
Well, I have said enough. I think my views are pretty clear by now. Yes, the Italian army was under-equipped and lacked the mobility and fire-power muscle of the Germans. It's punches were light and there was not enough follow through. However, it did what it could do well enough. The US supplied Britain and Russia with a mountain of armaments, trucks and material. Unfortunately, the Germans were either reluctant or could not supply the Italians with the same level of material resources. The Italians often did not want German soldiers - they wanted German weapons! They were quite capable of doing the fighting without the Germans - they just needed the materials to do the job properly. AnnalesSchool ( talk) 18:04, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
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On behalf of the Military history WikiProject's Coordinators, we would like to extend an invitation to nominate deserving editors for the 2015 Military historian of the year and Military history newcomer of the year awards. The nomination period will run from 7 December to 23:59 13 December, with the election phase running from 14 December to 23:59 21 December. MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 05:05, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
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Hi. The Wikipedia:WikiProject Europe/The 10,000 Challenge has recently started, based on the UK/Ireland Wikipedia:The 10,000 Challenge. The idea is not to record every minor edit, but to create a momentum to motivate editors to produce good content improvements and creations and inspire people to work on more countries than they might otherwise work on. There's also the possibility of establishing smaller country or regional challenges for places like Germany, Italy, the Benelux countries, Iberian Peninsula, Romania, Slovenia etc, much like Wikipedia:The 1000 Challenge (Nordic). For this to really work we need diversity and exciting content and editors from a broad range of countries regularly contributing. If you would like to see masses of articles being improved for Europe and your specialist country like Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa/The Africa Destubathon, sign up today and once the challenge starts a contest can be organized. This is a way we can target every country of Europe, and steadily vastly improve the encyclopedia. We need numbers to make this work so consider signing up as a participant and also sign under any country sub challenge on the page that you might contribute to! Thank you. -- MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 21:09, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
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G'day all, please be advised that throughout March 2017 the Military history Wikiproject is running its March Madness drive. This is a backlog drive that is focused on several key areas:
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Hi. We're into the last five days of the Women in Red World Contest. There's a new bonus prize of $200 worth of books of your choice to win for creating the most new women biographies between 0:00 on the 26th and 23:59 on 30th November. If you've been contributing to the contest, thank you for your support, we've produced over 2000 articles. If you haven't contributed yet, we would appreciate you taking the time to add entries to our articles achievements list by the end of the month. Thank you, and if participating, good luck with the finale!
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This user may have left Wikipedia. Romaioi has not edited Wikipedia since 7 April 2015. As a result, any requests made here may not receive a response. If you are seeking assistance, you may need to approach someone else. |
Romaioi is busy in real life and may not respond swiftly to queries. |
To promote misconception is not to serve history. History is concerned with the objective interpretation of events and the actions of people, not the propagation of myth or political agenda.
The one who is right is the one with the facts, not the one with the most popular opinion - Warren Buffet.
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4 July 2024 |
Quality Management Inspection Medal | |
I, [Inspector] No. 108, am honored to award you this medal for your intelligent and assiduous contributions to the quality management inspection process. I appreciate your assistance in improving the "Stable Version" of the Byzantine Empire entry. Always know that you have this humble inspector's gratitude and respect. No. 108 ( talk) 04:57, 10 December 2011 (UTC) |
Hi Romaioi,
I'm having a hard time with these wiki people who keep perpetuating the myth that the Italians were ineffective fighters. Many of them appear to be Brits or Australians who have read nonsense about the Italians and are perpetuating their myths on Wikipedia. Do you have any advice for me on how to deal with such obvious bias and misinformation? AnnalesSchool ( talk) 22:15, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Romaioi. Yes you are right that people rarely change their minds and have such rigid views. But at least in academia, historians are beginning to revise and reappraise the Italian involvement in the war. The problem with Wikipedia is that it is actually prolonging the myths and misinformation and is heavily partisan and bias in approach, so it has become a conservative rather than a progressive force. Also, unfortunately, many people get their information from Wiki these days, because they do not have the time or inclination to research more thoroughly.
It's a long slow process but I am confident that things are actually changing even at Wikipedia. The use of older authors is declining hopefully, those arrogant arm-chair historians, for a younger set who are less inclined to receive their information second or third hand.
AnnalesSchool (
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11:20, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
One other thing I find strange Ramaioi about some Wiki editors, is their lack of common sense when quoting and paraphrasing material. A good example is the Italian attack into France in June 1940. The attack started on the 21st June and by the 24th is was over. Now that left only 3 days of actual fighting. In other words, by the time the Italians got their guns into position, started shelling the French fortifications, is was pretty much over. And yet the Italians are berated for having advanced only 10 kms in some places, and 50 in others. And then the inevitable comparison with the spectacular German blitzkrieg in the north of France. When I try to point out the obvious that the Germans had 3 weeks of fighting on very different terrain, with much more space for mobility, etc. certain Wiki authors reply: Well, what are your sources?? In other words, they will only believe something if it can be quoted and cannot actually synthesize the information before them. In other words, they are like people in the Middle Ages who believed the world was flat because "the sources" told them so, rather than use a bit of common sense and the old grey matter. So many of the Wiki military articles are a ramshackle collection of quotes and paraphrases without actual analysis. A PhD student submitting a thesis will be failed by his professor if he produced a thesis without his own careful analysis of the material, followed by synthesis. It isn't enough to just throw in quote after quote and think you've done a good job. AnnalesSchool ( talk) 11:52, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
I don't think that cowardice is even an issue these days Romaioi. The Italian soldier was no more a coward than the British, German or Frenchman. However, soldiers can display cowardly moments from time to time, but there wasn't anything particularly cowardly with the Italians. Those early defeats where the news-reels show thousands of Italian soldiers surrendering with their hands up can be easily equated with the French or Germans or the Russians surrendering en masse. Once an army is out flanked and out maneuvered, there is little left to do but surrender.
No, the problem is that for too long, Anglo-American writers, many of them popular history writers (but even academics who should know better) have made so many superficial comparisons backed by shoddy/lazy research, that their information was compromised,inadequate, partial, incomplete or obtained from the over-critical Germans who were always ready to pass the blame to the Italians when things went wrong, cultural bias and a visceral dislike of southern Europeans, passing off statements as if they were fact, and blatant lies and misinformation (yes, the English do in fact, tell fibs - horror of horrors!!) that the whole sub-genre of the Italian involvement in the war, really needs a new start. We need to gather all those dusty history books written by people like Shearer and Thackerh, Cruickshank,Levine, Liddell Hart, Mack Smith, and a whole plethora of others, collect them all, and in Trafalgar Square light a huge bonfire and burn them. Then, start all over again on a clean and crystal clear slate. Unfortunately Wikipedia is a cess-pool of such writers, their last refuge in a mosquito-infested swamp! Dark, murky and insalubrious.
Well, I have said enough. I think my views are pretty clear by now. Yes, the Italian army was under-equipped and lacked the mobility and fire-power muscle of the Germans. It's punches were light and there was not enough follow through. However, it did what it could do well enough. The US supplied Britain and Russia with a mountain of armaments, trucks and material. Unfortunately, the Germans were either reluctant or could not supply the Italians with the same level of material resources. The Italians often did not want German soldiers - they wanted German weapons! They were quite capable of doing the fighting without the Germans - they just needed the materials to do the job properly. AnnalesSchool ( talk) 18:04, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
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Greetings from WikiProject Military history! As a member of the project, you are invited to take part in our annual project coordinator election. If you wish to cast a vote, please do so on the election page by 23:59 (UTC) on 29 September. Yours, Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 05:21, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
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Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current
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On behalf of the Military history WikiProject's Coordinators, we would like to extend an invitation to nominate deserving editors for the 2015 Military historian of the year and Military history newcomer of the year awards. The nomination period will run from 7 December to 23:59 13 December, with the election phase running from 14 December to 23:59 21 December. MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 05:05, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
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Greetings from the Military history WikiProject! Elections for the Military history WikiProject Coordinators are currently underway, and as a member of the WikiProject you are cordially invited to take part by casting your vote(s) for the candidates on the election page. This year's election will conclude at 23:59 UTC 23 September. For the Coordinators, MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 06:01, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
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Hi. The Wikipedia:WikiProject Europe/The 10,000 Challenge has recently started, based on the UK/Ireland Wikipedia:The 10,000 Challenge. The idea is not to record every minor edit, but to create a momentum to motivate editors to produce good content improvements and creations and inspire people to work on more countries than they might otherwise work on. There's also the possibility of establishing smaller country or regional challenges for places like Germany, Italy, the Benelux countries, Iberian Peninsula, Romania, Slovenia etc, much like Wikipedia:The 1000 Challenge (Nordic). For this to really work we need diversity and exciting content and editors from a broad range of countries regularly contributing. If you would like to see masses of articles being improved for Europe and your specialist country like Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa/The Africa Destubathon, sign up today and once the challenge starts a contest can be organized. This is a way we can target every country of Europe, and steadily vastly improve the encyclopedia. We need numbers to make this work so consider signing up as a participant and also sign under any country sub challenge on the page that you might contribute to! Thank you. -- MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 21:09, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
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Time is running out to voting for the Military Historian and Newcomer of the year! If you have not yet cast a vote, please consider doing so soon. The voting will end on 31 December at 23:59 UTC, with the presentation of the awards to the winners and runners up to occur on 1 January 2017. For the Military history WikiProject Coordinators, MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 05:02, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
This message was sent as a courtesy reminder to all active members of the Military History WikiProject.
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G'day all, please be advised that throughout March 2017 the Military history Wikiproject is running its March Madness drive. This is a backlog drive that is focused on several key areas:
As with past Milhist drives, there are points awarded for working on articles in the targeted areas, with barnstars being awarded at the end for different levels of achievement.
The drive is open to all Wikipedians, not just members of the Military history project, although only work on articles that fall (broadly) within the military history scope will be considered eligible. More information can be found here for those that are interested, and members can sign up as participants at that page also.
The drive starts at 00:01 UTC on 1 March and runs until 23:59 UTC on 31 March 2017, so please sign up now.
For the Milhist co-ordinators. Regards, AustralianRupert ( talk) & MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 07:24, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
As an Australian Wikipedian, your opinion is sought on a proposal to advocate for the introduction of Fair Use into Australian copyright law. The discussion is taking place at the Australian Wikipedians' notice board, please read the proposal and comment there. MediaWiki message delivery MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 11:08, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
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Greetings from the Military history WikiProject! Elections for the Military history WikiProject Coordinators are currently underway. As a member of the WikiProject you are cordially invited to take part by casting your vote(s) for the candidates on the election page. This year's election will conclude at 23:59 UTC 29 September. Thank you for your time. For the current tranche of Coordinators, AustralianRupert ( talk) 10:39, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
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Hi. We're into the last five days of the Women in Red World Contest. There's a new bonus prize of $200 worth of books of your choice to win for creating the most new women biographies between 0:00 on the 26th and 23:59 on 30th November. If you've been contributing to the contest, thank you for your support, we've produced over 2000 articles. If you haven't contributed yet, we would appreciate you taking the time to add entries to our articles achievements list by the end of the month. Thank you, and if participating, good luck with the finale!
As we approach the end of the year, the Military History project is looking to recognise editors who have made a real difference. Each year we do this by bestowing two awards: the Military Historian of the Year and the Military History Newcomer of the Year. The co-ordinators invite all project members to get involved by nominating any editor they feel merits recognition for their contributions to the project. Nominations for both awards are open between 00:01 on 2 December 2017 and 23:59 on 15 December 2017. After this, a 14-day voting period will follow commencing at 00:01 on 16 December 2017. Nominations and voting will take place on the main project talkpage: here and here. Thank you for your time. For the co-ordinators, MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 08:35, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
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Greetings,
"Military history" is one of the most important subjects when speak of sum of all human knowledge. To support contributors interested in the area over various language Wikipedias, we intend to form a user group. It also provides a platform to share the best practices between military historians, and various military related projects on Wikipedias. An initial discussion was has been done between the coordinators and members of WikiProject Military History on English Wikipedia. Now this discussion has been taken to Meta-Wiki. Contributors intrested in the area of military history are requested to share their feedback and give suggestions at Talk:Discussion to incubate a user group for Wikipedia Military Historians.
MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 11:30, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
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Hey y'all, the April 2021 WikiProject Military History Reviewing Drive begins at 00:01 UTC on April 1, 2021 and runs through 23:59 UTC on April 31, 2021. Points can be earned through reviewing articles on the AutoCheck report, reviewing articles listed at WP:MILHIST/ASSESS, reviewing MILHIST-tagged articles at WP:GAN or WP:FAC, and reviewing articles submitted at WP:MILHIST/ACR. Service awards and barnstars are given for set points thresholds, and the top three finishers will receive further awards. To participate, sign up at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_History/April 2021 Reviewing Drive#Participants and create a worklist at Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/April 2021 Reviewing Drive/Worklists (examples are given). Further details can be found at the drive page. Questions can be asked at the drive talk page. MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 17:24, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
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