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Well, the page is created. I believe the first order of business is to decide whether or not this will be a department or a task force. Another important task will be to come to an agreement as what the general outline of guidelines will be, details can be ironed out as we go.
Some input on the draft used to start this page would also be appreciated.
These aren't that important to getting started, but I think they should be addressed in any discussion about what the guidelines should be. ( Guyinblack25 talk 20:33, 12 November 2007 (UTC))
How about making some 'custom'ish banners for the project that can be put on the talk page so that all editors know that its currently going through clean up. We should also make a note on the talk pages of some basic stuff that editors of the page can do to make it better after we're finished the cleanup (something along the lines of letting them know that citing would be helpful, etc). Just an idea though... also, I'm glad I brought up the grammar comment, even if I was on the other side of the fence on the topic. Zemalia 00:20, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
The point on B-class articles made me think that perhaps the project should tighten it's assessment for B-class candidates. It just seems to be used rather too casually for articles not really deserving of it and those that are perhaps are not far off good article status. Take this revision of a character article and it's current revision after a major overhaul. Both are rated as B-class, although the first is simply a compilation of "cruft" (I hate that term), referenced only to the game's manuals, whilst the second is an attempt to move the article in the right direction in relation to WP:FICTION with commentary on design and reception. This probably isn't the best place for this kind of observation, but it's this page that spurred the thought. -- Sabre 11:35, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
This particular task force needs a members section. One of the goals of this task force is to apply global and project consensus on gamecruft issues to local areas where fans "decide" otherwise. In order to do this properly, it needs to be clear that the editor in question is in fact not doing anything random. User:Krator ( t c) 00:49, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Proposition: all references to notability in this article should be replaced by excessive detail, with grammar changes etc. Argument: cleanup is about otherwise notable subjects that have bad articles. It may be more clear to see that particular notability when an article is cleaned up - this should be expressed in the proposal. It is not the case, however, that the task force is cleaning up not notable material. It is cleaning up material that is excessively detailed in describing the subject. User:Krator ( t c) 00:49, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
As I mentioned earlier, I think this is a good idea but could easily be subverted into a "deletion blitz" task force. All it would take is someone asserting a whole class of articles is non-notable based on some few examples, then mass-redirect a number of articles while pointing at "Editors who are not participants in this project are also welcome to clean up content, but should defer to consensus within the project in case of procedural disputes" to stifle all discussion.
I wonder if redirection and deletion decisions shouldn't be left to existing channels, limiting the scope of this project to actually improving articles instead of eliminating them. I expect I'll be out-!voted on this though. Anomie 01:39, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I guess let's get this sorted out in a separate section. I guess the best way to do so would be to list either Department or Task force followed by a reason why. Of course this isn't a majority vote and we'll go with consensus.
No troubles with the name, as long as there's the member's list around. Go ahead and stamp this as approved with whatever name so we can get started. User:Krator ( t c) 12:54, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I added a request for comments on the proposal to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/to do. JACO PLANE • 2007-11-13 16:52
After looking over the page again, something occurred to me. It doesn't really mention things like Universe of Kingdom Hearts, Mushroom (Mario), and List of Nexus: The Jupiter Incident ships. Should the "Character articles" section be expanded to encompass all fictional elements of games? Like "characters of", "world of", and other specific supplementary articles. I don't think the wording needs to change too much as the basic idea is there, just need to switch out some nouns here and there. Any thoughts? ( Guyinblack25 talk 16:25, 16 November 2007 (UTC))
Ok, I tweaked the page to reflect the consensus, which I assume means the department is for all intents and purposes up and running. As far as making it official within the VG Project, I'm not familiar with the protocol for that. I removed the text about not being active from the "Current projects" section, but left it on the "Requests" section for now. Mainly so we aren't overwhelmed with requests while we get things off the ground.
With regard to current projects, I suggest we address the topic which spurred the creation of this department the various King of Fighters character articles. I'm sure this will be a rather daunting project, so depending on how many people are involved with it will determine if there will be others to address other projects, such as the first request listed,
Playable races in the Warcraft series.
With regard to future projects, after the first project is decided and underway, should a criteria be established for collaborative efforts of the project. And should such criteria differentiate between current projects and requests? Like smaller requests be handled by a single editor and requests for larger articles and more important articles be handled by the whole department.
Any other suggestions, ideas, or comments? (
Guyinblack25
talk 18:17, 20 November 2007 (UTC))
Something I would suggest about merging character articles to lists, is that we should only do so when the list contains sufficient sources to prove notability, or when we can add such sources ourselves. It's a little difficult to justify to people that we're removing their articles on notability grounds only to merge to a list which itself is of questionable notability, not to mention the fact that someone could come along and AfD it, making the merge a waste of our time. List of characters from The King of Fighters contains only one (as far as I can tell) independent source - gamespy - the rest are from SNK or Ignition Entertainment. Miremare 21:36, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
It looks like the numerous King of Fighters characters articles have become the topic of discussion and I guess in a way the first project. If there are no objections, I think it'll be a good place to start. I hate to sound like a stickler for rules and guidelines, but one question I feel should be asked is how involved should the department become?
Per
What the dept. is not - "Merges and redirections are handled on the talk pages of the articles concerned or by Wikipedia:Articles for deletion. The cleanup department may assist with merging after consensus for the merge has been reached through normal channels."
So how involved do we get on the talk pages about merging? Do we favor it or remain neutral? Either way I'd like to help with the end decision, but not sure how much to help in getting there. What do you guys think? (
Guyinblack25
talk 15:44, 21 November 2007 (UTC))
We should try and come up with consensus for merges here, and leave notes on talk pages of articles to notify of discussions here, IMHO. User:Krator ( t c) 16:07, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Just letting you guys know that I started putting up some of the KOF articles up for the merger after cleaning them. I figure if we at least get it done one at a time, with a discussion, it might go over smoother. Please come and comment on the talk page ( Talk:List of characters from The King of Fighters#Merge) so we can get consensus for them to make things go quicker. Zemalia ( talk) 00:26, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Just wanted to see what everyone thought should be done after an article has been cleaned up? Currently Dark Cloud has had a good deal of progress made with cleaning up. See version comparison. With a little more editing, it should be "cleaned up". My question is what will be done afterwards? I assume it should be archived somewhere like the Assessment and Peer review departments do. Should something like that be created? Also if we do archive it, what information should be listed if any besides an article name? Any thoughts? ( Guyinblack25 talk 21:21, 4 December 2007 (UTC))
Could someone take a look at Rayman Raving Rabbids. I tried cleaning it up some, but since I am not that familiar with the game I did not do that much with it. Here's the edit difference. It wasn't as cluttered with in-game info like Dark Cloud was, but I think an extra pair of eyes would help. ( Guyinblack25 talk 22:39, 23 January 2008 (UTC))
With so many articles and lists that do not belong here, instead of redirecting to articles that are notable enough or just deleting them, shouldn't we be using transwiking to Wikia gaming to our advantage? A lot of articles like these should be moved to its own wiki, which does exist in that case. Using transwiki would also help prevent any redirect from being reverted and save the efforts many had made in building those articles. « ₣ullMetal ₣alcon » 18:51, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Considering the amount of work it will take to merge the King of Fighters articles, I believe it's vitally important that we establish notability for this list, and indeed any list on the receiving end of a merge, before proceeding with the merge. Currently List of characters from The King of Fighters doesn't prove its notability. I'm sure it can, but this won't always be the case, and to put a lot of work into a list that could itself be a target for deletion would be a stupid waste of time. Miremare 19:30, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
In my opinion it is best to apply WP:IAR here and not nominate those article for deletion. User:Krator ( t c) 22:49, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
I would say that the initial action of merging them gets us on the right track. If it is deleted afterwards, so be it. It makes the process smoother than sixty AfDs or sixty revert wars from bold redirecting. A while back, I merged the characters of Samurai Shodown to a list, waiting three months, and eventually it was redirected (though with a lot of backlash from fans). In regards to wasting time, that list had pretty much the same amount of characters, most of them the same size as these, and it only took me a couple of days on and off. If we have even three people help, it'll go quickly. Though, I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to establish the list's notability; it just shouldn't override the other objectives. TTN ( talk) 19:55, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Hopefully I don't sound too preachy with this, but I think we may have gotten off-topic a bit. But intellectual discussions about our views on policy can be equally productive in the right venue. While we all may have varying ideas about notability and proper articles, I think it is safe to assume we all want what is best for Wikipedia and more specifically, what is best for the VG Project. Regardless of how much we do with mergers, the goal is to improve the overall quality of the articles and lists we work on by cleaning them up. I suspect some of our efforts will go to waste in that some articles we work on may get deleted down the road, even if some of us (though it's irrelevant, myself include) want to prevent that.
Though that can be disheartening, it is simply a part of the daily activities of Wikipedia, and part of the constant uphill struggle towards higher quality. Though Wikipedia has designed ways to remove content, it has also designed ways to add content. Just because it gets deleted doesn't mean it can't be brought back in the proper fashion (I assume we all agree that means with proper sourcing, establishing notability, and including real-world content). Simply put, we do the best we can to improve articles and lists by cleaning them up to meet the guidelines of Wikipedia and the VG Project. Everything after that is for other departments to decide and generally does not concern this department. As editors though, we are free to participate in every facet of the article creation and deletion process, as I'm sure we already do and will continue to do.
Back on topic, it looks like we have some proposed general guidelines to determine if the department should assist/facilitate mergers of character articles into lists and larger articles.
If this sounds acceptable to everyone then I'd say we try them out a couple times and see how they work out. Any thoughts? ( Guyinblack25 talk 23:11, 29 November 2007 (UTC))
So are we still just a proposal, or are we "official" now? Anomie ⚔ 04:36, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Please add any articles that are selected for cleanup by this project to the relevant section on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/to do (used on the {{ cvgproj}} talk page template. Hopefully that will enable us to enlist more contributors. JACO PLANE • 2007-12-2 00:48
FYI- The archive page has been created at Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Cleanup/Archive. The layout includes both "Current Projects" and "Request", but is not set in stone. Leave any suggestions or comments to improve the set up on the discussion page. ( Guyinblack25 talk 20:40, 18 December 2007 (UTC))
(Not sure if this is the correct place for this post - please move to the correct place if not. Thanks.)
I am a stranger to WikiProject Video games, so I don't know what your standards are, but the article
Guitar Hero (series) seems way too long to me. We also have articles on various individual games in the Guitar Heroes series -- see
Guitar Hero.
--
Writtenonsand (
talk) 11:12, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
I've been asked by George, the developer of a game called Transcendence, to spruce up the article on said game. However, I'm pretty new to creating and editing articles, and I have little knowledge on what to add and/or rewrite, how to do so, and I especially don't know what would be suitable for the article (I've read some of the articles on the cleanup of video games articles, which has helped a little). I was thinking of adding a screenshot of gameplay, creating a section called "Creation and influence", expanding on the influences on the creation and development of the game such as Star Control 2 and Nethack, and other such things. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Yamikotai ( talk) 18:44, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
I added a request for these topics to be looked at - basically all of the links in Template:Half-Life from Playable characters down. It doesn't seem like proper procedure to request something as large as this in place of individual articles, but it needs confronting. Because there isn't an overriding page to post such a message on, its here instead. There is simply far too many of these articles for one person to deal with, of which they are almost entirely written from an in-universe style, make bad use of fair-use images, provide sparingly little real-world information and none of them establish any sense of notability. -- Sabre ( talk) 20:02, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone disagree that it is probably time to start merging those? The few really big ones can be discussed in a new discussion if necessary, but the rest are certainly good to be merged. TTN ( talk) 14:23, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
The FIFA 08 article previously consisted of a series of lists (leagues, teams, stadiums etc.) which I removed, noting some of the more important info in the existing prose. This has been disputed and there is currently an RfC on the talk page here for the return of the lists. The argument for inclusion seems to be that many other similar articles ( FIFA 07, FIFA 06, FIFA Football 2005, FIFA Football 2004 et al) have these too. I can't really say any more there without repeating myself, so I'd appreciate some input from others if possible. Cheers, Miremare 19:01, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I've added these to the requests for cleanup, though I'm very pushed for time at the mo so won't be able to contribute much. Miremare 18:35, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
I am a Georgia Tech research student studying the Design of Online Communities, and I would like to interview some members from the Video Game Cleanup community regarding your experiences in editing Wikipedia. If you are interested in helping out my research, please contact me through my Wiki Talk page. Thank you! Midas7g ( talk) 17:03, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
From Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Cleanup:
- Xenosaga as well as the related list of pages:
- Xenosaga 1
- Xenosaga 2
- Xenosaga 3
- Allen Ridgeley
- Chaos (Xenosaga)
- Gaignun Kukai, Jr.
- Jin Uzuki
- KOS-MOS
- List of minor characters in Xenosaga
- List of major characters in Xenosaga
- List of antagonists in Xenosaga
- MOMO
- Shion Uzuki
A majority of the material has been transwiki'd to U.M.N. Network. However, as decided on the U.M.N. Network page, the notice I put on a majority of these pages was considered badly done, and the U.M.N. network page is being deleted. As a result, I am unsure how to notify the reader that most of the links they click will be taken to a transwiki. They need to be cleaned up to an out of universe style. I'd love to do it myself, but I've never even played the game - I was trying to figure out about the game from the article itself, and found it to be a mess. Please help fix these pages. Especially remove links to the following redirected pages:
Xenosaga contains numerous in-game terms that make the game difficult to describe in an out of universe perspective. Originally, the terms were shown in a list; list of terms in Xenosaga. However, that page was deemed messy and was transwiki'd to U.M.N. Network. Then the page was "deleted" as a redirect to Xenosaga. The result is that these pages have multiple references to a list page. I've cleaned up the Xenosaga page personally, so there is no longer the confusing situation of clicking on an unknown term and being redirected back to the original Xenosaga page. However, the situation still needs to be cleaned up. Here is what I'd like to see from the cleanup effort:
-- Markozeta ( talk) 17:02, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
The PoPoLoCrois article currently focuses solely on the PSP game (which is a compilation of several earlier RPG's released only in Japan. I can't find the reference in the MoS but as I understand it, and article named PoPoLoCrois should focus on the entire series or on the original work, not a later compilation. Am I wrong? Would it be appropriate to propose a merge with the anime page and try to find information on the earlier games? Any advice would be much appreciated. -- Kraftlos ( talk) 05:22, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Excuse me if I'm addressing this to the wrong portion of the WikiProject. I don't normally edit video-game related pages, but came across List of DSiWare games (PAL region) while patrolling new pages from the backlog. It struck me as unencyclopedic, since it's essentially a directory of games. Since the page also includes "point" costs and information on download availability, etc., I marked for speedy deletion under G11. Speedy deletion was declined, which in retrospect was the right thing.
During the ensuing {{ hangon}} discussion, though, my attention was drawn to List of DSiWare games (North America), List of DSiWare games and applications, List of WiiWare games (North America), List of WiiWare games (PAL region), and List of WiiWare games. It strikes me that all of these pages are problematic in the same way.
These pages are all directories of games and applications available for DSi or Wii users. This seems contrary to WP:What Wikipedia is not, particularly the section WP:NOTDIRECTORY.
Maybe the best way to handle this is merge all of the DSi-related lists into one list, and all of the Wii-related lists into another. This could then be edited to include specific encyclopedic information about the applications or games, rather than simply serving as a directory. Or, maybe contributors to this WikiProject have better suggestions. Thoughts? Cnilep ( talk) 00:41, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
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Well, the page is created. I believe the first order of business is to decide whether or not this will be a department or a task force. Another important task will be to come to an agreement as what the general outline of guidelines will be, details can be ironed out as we go.
Some input on the draft used to start this page would also be appreciated.
These aren't that important to getting started, but I think they should be addressed in any discussion about what the guidelines should be. ( Guyinblack25 talk 20:33, 12 November 2007 (UTC))
How about making some 'custom'ish banners for the project that can be put on the talk page so that all editors know that its currently going through clean up. We should also make a note on the talk pages of some basic stuff that editors of the page can do to make it better after we're finished the cleanup (something along the lines of letting them know that citing would be helpful, etc). Just an idea though... also, I'm glad I brought up the grammar comment, even if I was on the other side of the fence on the topic. Zemalia 00:20, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
The point on B-class articles made me think that perhaps the project should tighten it's assessment for B-class candidates. It just seems to be used rather too casually for articles not really deserving of it and those that are perhaps are not far off good article status. Take this revision of a character article and it's current revision after a major overhaul. Both are rated as B-class, although the first is simply a compilation of "cruft" (I hate that term), referenced only to the game's manuals, whilst the second is an attempt to move the article in the right direction in relation to WP:FICTION with commentary on design and reception. This probably isn't the best place for this kind of observation, but it's this page that spurred the thought. -- Sabre 11:35, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
This particular task force needs a members section. One of the goals of this task force is to apply global and project consensus on gamecruft issues to local areas where fans "decide" otherwise. In order to do this properly, it needs to be clear that the editor in question is in fact not doing anything random. User:Krator ( t c) 00:49, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Proposition: all references to notability in this article should be replaced by excessive detail, with grammar changes etc. Argument: cleanup is about otherwise notable subjects that have bad articles. It may be more clear to see that particular notability when an article is cleaned up - this should be expressed in the proposal. It is not the case, however, that the task force is cleaning up not notable material. It is cleaning up material that is excessively detailed in describing the subject. User:Krator ( t c) 00:49, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
As I mentioned earlier, I think this is a good idea but could easily be subverted into a "deletion blitz" task force. All it would take is someone asserting a whole class of articles is non-notable based on some few examples, then mass-redirect a number of articles while pointing at "Editors who are not participants in this project are also welcome to clean up content, but should defer to consensus within the project in case of procedural disputes" to stifle all discussion.
I wonder if redirection and deletion decisions shouldn't be left to existing channels, limiting the scope of this project to actually improving articles instead of eliminating them. I expect I'll be out-!voted on this though. Anomie 01:39, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I guess let's get this sorted out in a separate section. I guess the best way to do so would be to list either Department or Task force followed by a reason why. Of course this isn't a majority vote and we'll go with consensus.
No troubles with the name, as long as there's the member's list around. Go ahead and stamp this as approved with whatever name so we can get started. User:Krator ( t c) 12:54, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I added a request for comments on the proposal to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/to do. JACO PLANE • 2007-11-13 16:52
After looking over the page again, something occurred to me. It doesn't really mention things like Universe of Kingdom Hearts, Mushroom (Mario), and List of Nexus: The Jupiter Incident ships. Should the "Character articles" section be expanded to encompass all fictional elements of games? Like "characters of", "world of", and other specific supplementary articles. I don't think the wording needs to change too much as the basic idea is there, just need to switch out some nouns here and there. Any thoughts? ( Guyinblack25 talk 16:25, 16 November 2007 (UTC))
Ok, I tweaked the page to reflect the consensus, which I assume means the department is for all intents and purposes up and running. As far as making it official within the VG Project, I'm not familiar with the protocol for that. I removed the text about not being active from the "Current projects" section, but left it on the "Requests" section for now. Mainly so we aren't overwhelmed with requests while we get things off the ground.
With regard to current projects, I suggest we address the topic which spurred the creation of this department the various King of Fighters character articles. I'm sure this will be a rather daunting project, so depending on how many people are involved with it will determine if there will be others to address other projects, such as the first request listed,
Playable races in the Warcraft series.
With regard to future projects, after the first project is decided and underway, should a criteria be established for collaborative efforts of the project. And should such criteria differentiate between current projects and requests? Like smaller requests be handled by a single editor and requests for larger articles and more important articles be handled by the whole department.
Any other suggestions, ideas, or comments? (
Guyinblack25
talk 18:17, 20 November 2007 (UTC))
Something I would suggest about merging character articles to lists, is that we should only do so when the list contains sufficient sources to prove notability, or when we can add such sources ourselves. It's a little difficult to justify to people that we're removing their articles on notability grounds only to merge to a list which itself is of questionable notability, not to mention the fact that someone could come along and AfD it, making the merge a waste of our time. List of characters from The King of Fighters contains only one (as far as I can tell) independent source - gamespy - the rest are from SNK or Ignition Entertainment. Miremare 21:36, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
It looks like the numerous King of Fighters characters articles have become the topic of discussion and I guess in a way the first project. If there are no objections, I think it'll be a good place to start. I hate to sound like a stickler for rules and guidelines, but one question I feel should be asked is how involved should the department become?
Per
What the dept. is not - "Merges and redirections are handled on the talk pages of the articles concerned or by Wikipedia:Articles for deletion. The cleanup department may assist with merging after consensus for the merge has been reached through normal channels."
So how involved do we get on the talk pages about merging? Do we favor it or remain neutral? Either way I'd like to help with the end decision, but not sure how much to help in getting there. What do you guys think? (
Guyinblack25
talk 15:44, 21 November 2007 (UTC))
We should try and come up with consensus for merges here, and leave notes on talk pages of articles to notify of discussions here, IMHO. User:Krator ( t c) 16:07, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Just letting you guys know that I started putting up some of the KOF articles up for the merger after cleaning them. I figure if we at least get it done one at a time, with a discussion, it might go over smoother. Please come and comment on the talk page ( Talk:List of characters from The King of Fighters#Merge) so we can get consensus for them to make things go quicker. Zemalia ( talk) 00:26, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Just wanted to see what everyone thought should be done after an article has been cleaned up? Currently Dark Cloud has had a good deal of progress made with cleaning up. See version comparison. With a little more editing, it should be "cleaned up". My question is what will be done afterwards? I assume it should be archived somewhere like the Assessment and Peer review departments do. Should something like that be created? Also if we do archive it, what information should be listed if any besides an article name? Any thoughts? ( Guyinblack25 talk 21:21, 4 December 2007 (UTC))
Could someone take a look at Rayman Raving Rabbids. I tried cleaning it up some, but since I am not that familiar with the game I did not do that much with it. Here's the edit difference. It wasn't as cluttered with in-game info like Dark Cloud was, but I think an extra pair of eyes would help. ( Guyinblack25 talk 22:39, 23 January 2008 (UTC))
With so many articles and lists that do not belong here, instead of redirecting to articles that are notable enough or just deleting them, shouldn't we be using transwiking to Wikia gaming to our advantage? A lot of articles like these should be moved to its own wiki, which does exist in that case. Using transwiki would also help prevent any redirect from being reverted and save the efforts many had made in building those articles. « ₣ullMetal ₣alcon » 18:51, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Considering the amount of work it will take to merge the King of Fighters articles, I believe it's vitally important that we establish notability for this list, and indeed any list on the receiving end of a merge, before proceeding with the merge. Currently List of characters from The King of Fighters doesn't prove its notability. I'm sure it can, but this won't always be the case, and to put a lot of work into a list that could itself be a target for deletion would be a stupid waste of time. Miremare 19:30, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
In my opinion it is best to apply WP:IAR here and not nominate those article for deletion. User:Krator ( t c) 22:49, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
I would say that the initial action of merging them gets us on the right track. If it is deleted afterwards, so be it. It makes the process smoother than sixty AfDs or sixty revert wars from bold redirecting. A while back, I merged the characters of Samurai Shodown to a list, waiting three months, and eventually it was redirected (though with a lot of backlash from fans). In regards to wasting time, that list had pretty much the same amount of characters, most of them the same size as these, and it only took me a couple of days on and off. If we have even three people help, it'll go quickly. Though, I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to establish the list's notability; it just shouldn't override the other objectives. TTN ( talk) 19:55, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Hopefully I don't sound too preachy with this, but I think we may have gotten off-topic a bit. But intellectual discussions about our views on policy can be equally productive in the right venue. While we all may have varying ideas about notability and proper articles, I think it is safe to assume we all want what is best for Wikipedia and more specifically, what is best for the VG Project. Regardless of how much we do with mergers, the goal is to improve the overall quality of the articles and lists we work on by cleaning them up. I suspect some of our efforts will go to waste in that some articles we work on may get deleted down the road, even if some of us (though it's irrelevant, myself include) want to prevent that.
Though that can be disheartening, it is simply a part of the daily activities of Wikipedia, and part of the constant uphill struggle towards higher quality. Though Wikipedia has designed ways to remove content, it has also designed ways to add content. Just because it gets deleted doesn't mean it can't be brought back in the proper fashion (I assume we all agree that means with proper sourcing, establishing notability, and including real-world content). Simply put, we do the best we can to improve articles and lists by cleaning them up to meet the guidelines of Wikipedia and the VG Project. Everything after that is for other departments to decide and generally does not concern this department. As editors though, we are free to participate in every facet of the article creation and deletion process, as I'm sure we already do and will continue to do.
Back on topic, it looks like we have some proposed general guidelines to determine if the department should assist/facilitate mergers of character articles into lists and larger articles.
If this sounds acceptable to everyone then I'd say we try them out a couple times and see how they work out. Any thoughts? ( Guyinblack25 talk 23:11, 29 November 2007 (UTC))
So are we still just a proposal, or are we "official" now? Anomie ⚔ 04:36, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Please add any articles that are selected for cleanup by this project to the relevant section on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/to do (used on the {{ cvgproj}} talk page template. Hopefully that will enable us to enlist more contributors. JACO PLANE • 2007-12-2 00:48
FYI- The archive page has been created at Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Cleanup/Archive. The layout includes both "Current Projects" and "Request", but is not set in stone. Leave any suggestions or comments to improve the set up on the discussion page. ( Guyinblack25 talk 20:40, 18 December 2007 (UTC))
(Not sure if this is the correct place for this post - please move to the correct place if not. Thanks.)
I am a stranger to WikiProject Video games, so I don't know what your standards are, but the article
Guitar Hero (series) seems way too long to me. We also have articles on various individual games in the Guitar Heroes series -- see
Guitar Hero.
--
Writtenonsand (
talk) 11:12, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
I've been asked by George, the developer of a game called Transcendence, to spruce up the article on said game. However, I'm pretty new to creating and editing articles, and I have little knowledge on what to add and/or rewrite, how to do so, and I especially don't know what would be suitable for the article (I've read some of the articles on the cleanup of video games articles, which has helped a little). I was thinking of adding a screenshot of gameplay, creating a section called "Creation and influence", expanding on the influences on the creation and development of the game such as Star Control 2 and Nethack, and other such things. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Yamikotai ( talk) 18:44, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
I added a request for these topics to be looked at - basically all of the links in Template:Half-Life from Playable characters down. It doesn't seem like proper procedure to request something as large as this in place of individual articles, but it needs confronting. Because there isn't an overriding page to post such a message on, its here instead. There is simply far too many of these articles for one person to deal with, of which they are almost entirely written from an in-universe style, make bad use of fair-use images, provide sparingly little real-world information and none of them establish any sense of notability. -- Sabre ( talk) 20:02, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone disagree that it is probably time to start merging those? The few really big ones can be discussed in a new discussion if necessary, but the rest are certainly good to be merged. TTN ( talk) 14:23, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
The FIFA 08 article previously consisted of a series of lists (leagues, teams, stadiums etc.) which I removed, noting some of the more important info in the existing prose. This has been disputed and there is currently an RfC on the talk page here for the return of the lists. The argument for inclusion seems to be that many other similar articles ( FIFA 07, FIFA 06, FIFA Football 2005, FIFA Football 2004 et al) have these too. I can't really say any more there without repeating myself, so I'd appreciate some input from others if possible. Cheers, Miremare 19:01, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I've added these to the requests for cleanup, though I'm very pushed for time at the mo so won't be able to contribute much. Miremare 18:35, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
I am a Georgia Tech research student studying the Design of Online Communities, and I would like to interview some members from the Video Game Cleanup community regarding your experiences in editing Wikipedia. If you are interested in helping out my research, please contact me through my Wiki Talk page. Thank you! Midas7g ( talk) 17:03, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
From Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Cleanup:
- Xenosaga as well as the related list of pages:
- Xenosaga 1
- Xenosaga 2
- Xenosaga 3
- Allen Ridgeley
- Chaos (Xenosaga)
- Gaignun Kukai, Jr.
- Jin Uzuki
- KOS-MOS
- List of minor characters in Xenosaga
- List of major characters in Xenosaga
- List of antagonists in Xenosaga
- MOMO
- Shion Uzuki
A majority of the material has been transwiki'd to U.M.N. Network. However, as decided on the U.M.N. Network page, the notice I put on a majority of these pages was considered badly done, and the U.M.N. network page is being deleted. As a result, I am unsure how to notify the reader that most of the links they click will be taken to a transwiki. They need to be cleaned up to an out of universe style. I'd love to do it myself, but I've never even played the game - I was trying to figure out about the game from the article itself, and found it to be a mess. Please help fix these pages. Especially remove links to the following redirected pages:
Xenosaga contains numerous in-game terms that make the game difficult to describe in an out of universe perspective. Originally, the terms were shown in a list; list of terms in Xenosaga. However, that page was deemed messy and was transwiki'd to U.M.N. Network. Then the page was "deleted" as a redirect to Xenosaga. The result is that these pages have multiple references to a list page. I've cleaned up the Xenosaga page personally, so there is no longer the confusing situation of clicking on an unknown term and being redirected back to the original Xenosaga page. However, the situation still needs to be cleaned up. Here is what I'd like to see from the cleanup effort:
-- Markozeta ( talk) 17:02, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
The PoPoLoCrois article currently focuses solely on the PSP game (which is a compilation of several earlier RPG's released only in Japan. I can't find the reference in the MoS but as I understand it, and article named PoPoLoCrois should focus on the entire series or on the original work, not a later compilation. Am I wrong? Would it be appropriate to propose a merge with the anime page and try to find information on the earlier games? Any advice would be much appreciated. -- Kraftlos ( talk) 05:22, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Excuse me if I'm addressing this to the wrong portion of the WikiProject. I don't normally edit video-game related pages, but came across List of DSiWare games (PAL region) while patrolling new pages from the backlog. It struck me as unencyclopedic, since it's essentially a directory of games. Since the page also includes "point" costs and information on download availability, etc., I marked for speedy deletion under G11. Speedy deletion was declined, which in retrospect was the right thing.
During the ensuing {{ hangon}} discussion, though, my attention was drawn to List of DSiWare games (North America), List of DSiWare games and applications, List of WiiWare games (North America), List of WiiWare games (PAL region), and List of WiiWare games. It strikes me that all of these pages are problematic in the same way.
These pages are all directories of games and applications available for DSi or Wii users. This seems contrary to WP:What Wikipedia is not, particularly the section WP:NOTDIRECTORY.
Maybe the best way to handle this is merge all of the DSi-related lists into one list, and all of the Wii-related lists into another. This could then be edited to include specific encyclopedic information about the applications or games, rather than simply serving as a directory. Or, maybe contributors to this WikiProject have better suggestions. Thoughts? Cnilep ( talk) 00:41, 13 August 2009 (UTC)