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Alright, the Tekken characters are a mess so I'll be brief. Put up a whole slew of them for merge proposals:
The one shot bosses are pointed at their respective game articles (Azazel, Combot, NANCY, Jinpachi, Unknown). Devil is pointed at Kazuya Mishima. The others are pointed at List of minor Tekken characters. The rest of the articles could probably be worked on, salvaged, and improved with some reception and possible development points, and the Tekken 6 characters possibly too (I'm pretty sure Bob has a lot of reception to work with, given I've already seen comparisons between SF4's Rufus and him, thus why I didn't drop a merge tag on his page as well).-- Kung Fu Man ( talk) 23:38, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Adding to this, a proposal to merge Yoshimitsu (Soul Calibur) and Yoshimitsu (Tekken). It's never stated that these are the same guys or not, but they share the same moves and info to an insane degree. Combining them would probably help towards making one good article out of two crappy ones.-- Kung Fu Man ( talk) 23:45, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Adding two to this:
The first seems a given since Forrest is basically a replacement for his father and only in one game excluding Tag. The Williams...are more because they end up intertwined. You effectively can't mention one sister without the other, though at the same time if enough can be proven that Anna is better off with her own article (reception + development), then a merger wouldn't be worth the effort.-- Kung Fu Man ( talk) 02:32, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
Alright, updates:
Expanded somewhat. Removed a lot of the rubbish in Template:Soul characters, which involved characxters already on the minor page or those that just belonged in the strategy game's char list instead. Every character listed there as "Bonus" is poised for a merger with the minor character list.-- Kung Fu Man ( talk) 01:54, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
I've been cleaning up this article for a while now, and it's getting to the point where I can't really see the wood for the trees. I could really do with the help of some fresh pairs of eyes to run over the article, particularly in the lead, development and legacy sections so that I can finish cleaning it up and prepare it for a Good Article renomination. many thanks! Gazi moff( mentor/ review) 17:53, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
Lead
Gameplay
Development
Post-launch development
Corrupted Blood plague incident
Audio
Reception
Legacy
References
Copyright issues
General
Got a minor debate going, could use some input from folks related to the project. User:74.242.122.25 is arguing for the Japanese text to be "Warrior(s) of the Demon Realm Tower"; I on the other hand am wanting to stick with "Warrior in the Tower of the Spirit World ~ Sa·Ga", the name used in a citable format on the soundtrack as shown by several sources including VGM World and Amazon.com, both of which I cited. His argument is that a translation does not need citations due to WP:MOS-JP. So input is needed to determine which should stick in a nutshell.
The discussion on the talk page.-- Kung Fu Man ( talk) 18:10, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm in favor of Gazimoff's suggestion to use a referenced translation beside a literal one. I've seen other articles do this, as well. Considering, games often use different titles across each localisation, it's important to outline the original source in a fashion as literal as possible to avoid any misconception that it does compare to the new, localised title. Although, I can't concede that the data provided about this soundtrack is official enough to be considered a common name in the first place, since the common name of the localised version is simply "The Final Fantasy Legend." 74.242.104.211 ( talk) 17:37, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Or we could not deal with this Japanese crap by just having the english title. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk) 18:56, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
A while back I nominated Grand Theft Auto: Vice City soundtrack (which is basically a word-for-word reconstruction of everything you'll ever hear on any radio station in GTA:VC), for merging into Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Official Soundtrack Box Set, which is an actual album release of the game's soundtrack. Not much discussion ensued. Can I temp anyone to venture a comment or two? Thanks, Miremare 20:47, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
Is there an equivalent site to IMDb that lists a person's work in film/video games/books but is not user contributed and therefore has a chance at passing as a reliable source? I'm thinking of ways to reference the career section for Chris Metzen, but most interviews don't focus on what his work is, but who he is and how he does his work. An alternative would be to directly cite the game manuals (although I don't have all the games to cite all the manuals): would that be suitable? -- Sabre ( talk) 09:09, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
What about Allgame? Unfortunately the entry for Metzen is empty, but he's listed on credit pages like this one. Someone another 12:55, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Above article was tagged for cleanup - would someone like to check it
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Fable_II&oldid=228425930
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Fable_II&oldid=228427420
and make suggestions on the talk page in terms of further work etc... Thanks. 87.102.86.73 ( talk) 17:19, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Sonic: The Fated Hour is about a fangame that has been in the making for going on 10 years now. This article has been deleted four times (see the second incarnation's AfD discussion here and re-created four times. It apparently was also salted after the third time, but even the salt was also lifted from the page. On top of that, it was also recreated by the same person every time.
Should this be deleted and possibly salted again? (I'm asking here because of the obvious lapses in judgment I've been having lately in nominating articles for deletion.) MuZemike ( talk) 19:24, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
I should also note that the creator of this article has had some past significant issues regarding vandalism, incivility, edit warring, and launching of personal attacks towards individual users (in particular, to those who have nominated the article for AfD in the part), and he/she has wonton disregard towards Wikipedia policies and guidelines, despite the numerous warnings and one block given.
If we're going to move forward with this, then we need to exercise some caution as well as keeping this user on a proverbial short leash in light of the circumstances. MuZemike ( talk) 21:36, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
I'd appreciate project members' input over at the AFD for this article. My neutrality ( COI) is being called in to question for being able to vote or not at the AFD because I'm also a co-organizer of the event. (I intrepet COI and the language of the entire page refering to editing of material in the actual article itself, and controvercial edits that could be made in the article). Regardless, I'd appreciate other project members weighing in their viewpoints (regardless if you're for or against the article continuing to exist). -- Marty Goldberg ( talk) 20:08, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Done
I'd appreciate if someone could help me out by uploading two images. You'd be helping out with a featured article candidate in a significant way. The two images I need:
You'd be doing me a huge favor. The reason I'd rather someone else upload it is a long story, but needless to say it would be relatively easy for someone else. I'll start offering cookies if I have to :) Randomran ( talk) 22:41, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Thanks guys. Assuming no more issues are raised about the images in this article, we should be safe for now. We'll see what the other reviewers say. Randomran ( talk) 01:28, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm seeing a lot of edits by Sfan00 IMG who is removing links to sites with the comment "Remove Link - Don't link sites that link to copyvio!!" (look at his edit history). Are we really liable for what other sites link to? From what I've seen, some of the links he removes link to other sites, but don't actually have the games for download themselves. I can see not directly linking to warez sites, but are we supposed to police what sites we link to link to? Isn't this kind of a slippery slope? Is there a policy on this? — Frecklefσσt | Talk 12:25, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
I've been marking some sources in articles as unreliable but my edits have been reverted. I would like to know whether MobyGames really is reliable or not? Thanks. Weirdo with a Beardo ( talk) 13:27, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
This is a heads up to all editors who have articles they hope to get to the main page- In addition to the flux going on with the rules for the point system, there is now a box on the talk page of the TFA nomination page for people to put there articles into, in order to hash out the point values for an article gets before it is nominated. A side effect of this, however, is that articles that could have multiple good days to run jostle around in order to not overlap with others, so if you have an article you want to be on the main page in the next 60 days, best to get it in there before the day gets blocked by a high-scoring article. -- PresN ( talk) 16:10, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
Hi guys, just wanted to ask for some help. A couple of times in the past the article for the MMOG game Astro_empires [1] has been deleted because it was considered non-notable. I was the original creator of the article back in early 2007 and then someone else restarted it later that year. Now the game, I feel at least meets notability as it has been featured in Portugal's (Its a Portuguese game) most read newspaper [2] (Online version, was in printed paper) as well as continued growth to over 30,000 players.
There is currently a discussion on having the article deleted again here and I would appreciate it if you guys could lend your two cent to the arguments. Thanks very much Butch-cassidy ( talk) 16:50, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
Okay, there are a bunch of value packs for the PSP and I thought I should make an article for the God of War PSP value pack. What do you guys think? Will it be notable enough? King Rock (Gears of War) 18:24, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
Just a heads up, I've just had two screenshots deleted from the Shadowgrounds article. The deletion is discussed at Wikipedia:Images_and_media_for_deletion/2008_July_23#Image:Shadowgrounds2.jpg. There were two screenshots, I had only argued for one to be kept, but they both went. They were sourced and included a fair use rationale.
You'll see that the main argument is from pd_THOR, stating that as the Shadowgrounds article has no reliable sources, any claim made of the screenshot's use in depicting the graphics engine/camera angle/gameplay/HUD etc. is rendered void because there were no reliable sources in the article telling you why graphics are important.
The closing argument suggests that in addition to this, readers need hand holding. So you'd probably need more detailed captions than those I provided, because they can't figure out that a gameplay screenshot is meant to demonstrate gameplay. I don't know if they're trying to delete more screenshots, but if you provide sources and rationales, they do have to jump through a few more hoops.
It's probably worth reuploading one gameplay screenshot for obvious reasons, but I can't be bothered right now, and it's probably best to wait until it's no so watched and people forget. - hahnch e n 23:29, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
The skeleton closet topic got me thinking: Anyone interested in reviving the Wikipedia:Gaming Collaboration of the week? I used to enjoy the process of focusing on one stub as a WikiProject and improving it. JACO PLANE • 2008-07-24 21:52
I don't know if I can do it every week, but I'd be willing to help out when I can. Red Phoenix flame of life... protector of all... 00:21, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
I agree with the core topics bit as well, although I wouldn't want it to be 100% exclusive to them. We just need to keep an eye open for the thing that was mentioned by most people when the COTW went bump, in that there were articles nominated that they didn't feel any passion for. - X201 ( talk) 09:04, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
I suggested this a while ago, but had an idea of a two-pronged approach. We would have two articles up for GCOT(indiscriminate time period): the first would be a core article (restricted to top or high priority articles) with the intent of getting those to better than GA status (with one person committed to seeing the article through FA), and a second being any other article that needs a reasonable push from Stub/Start/C class up to B class/GA quality. In the first case, most of these articles don't have an author invested yet they are core, so it makes sense to get a large group effort on them. The second case, there must be someone who nominated the the article that is willing to do most of the footwork with the suggestions of the GCOT(itp). In this fashion, there would be two possible ways a user could contribute. -- MASEM 10:57, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
Alright then, give me a couple of days to get this started. Am I right that the consensus is for a "collaboration of the fortnight"? I'll try to get this done tomorrow, otherwise by Wednesday. JACO PLANE • 2008-07-27 21:13
Looks like VG got another random front page hit for BioShock, scheduled for August 2nd. Not as worried about this as with Guitar Hero, but I could appreciate a few watchlist eyes for the usual shenanigans. (I hope this doesn't wreck the chance for Myst being an anniversary FA). -- MASEM 23:49, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
I have started this page just to give further info as it is released and then move it to the mainspace when it's done. Help would be appriciated. Gears of War 2 03:11, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
I have a question about reliability of some sources. I've read all the guides about reliability, neutrality, verifiability and concepts of majority and minorities (to be ignored by wiki standards), and understand the fact that pools aren't reliable most of the times (as it is in the guides) because they might be easy to corrupt (ie one guy votes 4, 5 times, etc). Ok, the point is, Blizzard made a pool a while ago in Battle Net, and asked fan sites (Diablofans, DiabloII.net) to do the same about certain aspects of Diablo III. All the 3 pools were acessible only to long-time registered fans close to the game developement, and they could vote only once, with names taken and open for everyone to see. Is this the case pools can be considered reliable? Could i cite the pools, using the term "fans close to the game developement" ? Atriel ( talk) 06:14, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
An interesting question, but a potential minefield and something I think a fair few people are familiar with. A lot of "Special" or "Collectors Edition" versions of videogames are now being released on a fairly regular basis. As well as including things like soundtrack CDs and so on, a lot of these also include "Making Of" DVDs that could be a potential goldmine for the development section of their article on WP. The question I have is, can they be included as a citable source? As they're a primary source, are there any restrictions or concerns that I should bear in mind if citing from one? My gut feeling is that they should be treated like a director's commentary from a film DVD - citable but don't rely heavily from them. If anyone's had experience from this area in the past, especially in the GA or FA arena, it'd be most appreciated. Many thanks, Gazi moff 06:21, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
I note that Wii Remote has pricing in the infobox and in the body of the text. This seems to go against most other articles, where prices are saved for just console articles, and even then, are only included in a SKU section. Just wondering if Wii Remote should indeed include pricing, and if so, where. Thanks! Fin © ™ 11:33, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
WP:NOPRICES item 4 - X201 ( talk) 11:41, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
So why are the prices listed on the all the pages listed at List of Virtual Console games? They fall under Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_directory- item 4. The prices of downloadable games certainly aren't notable at this time. This issue has been brought up several times (here, as well as the talk pages for the lists), and usually is forgotten or just dropped due to people getting frustrated with the situation (the previous discussions resulted in many people yelling at each other about prices being listed/not listed, edit wars, etc). The only progress that was ever made: a column was removed, because each type of game was the same price. I strongly still feel all the prices should be removed, due to the link I listed above. I would just be bold and remove the information, but I know it would be reverted pretty quick. Also, the same thing should apply to the other download service out now: Xbox Live Arcade. I looked at Playstation Network a bit, and didn't see any mass listings of prices, so I think that's the only one that we don't need to worry about. Can we make a decision on this, and make sure it stands? RobJ1981 ( talk) 11:56, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Somebody really needs to stop adding Devil May Cry 4 voice role for Kari Wahlgren. Kari Wahlgren only voiced the one for Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening, not Devil May Cry 4. Stop adding that again and again and again when I'm trying to correct that link by deleting that. Stop it already! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Patient Ascher ( talk • contribs) 17:08, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
I have moved the Requests for assessment from a section on Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Assessment to Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Requests for assessment, which is then transcluded back. The idea is that the rest of Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Assessment is vital project stuff and we shouldn't encourage so much traffic. Now it still looks the same, but your watchlist should only reflect changes to the Project's Assessment scheme itself, and the requests on a separate page. This didn't seem controversial to me, but I thought I should mention it here anyways. Cheers! ~ JohnnyMrNinja 18:22, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
The peer review for Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe, an article within the scope of the Military history WikiProject, is now open. The Military history WikiProject is currently partnering with our project to share peer reviews, so all editors are cordially invited to participate, and any input there would be very appreciated! Thanks! Kirill ( prof) 20:50, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
The Guitar Hero series is now a Featured Topic Candidate. -- MASEM 03:08, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
The infobox for Assassin's Creed uses some HTML/CSS to get a scrollable box for the system requirements. I think this is a great solution that doesn't require the use of external tables and such. Would it be possible and agreeable to make this a standard feature of the infobox? Ham Pastrami ( talk) 21:58, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Okay starting with the good:Every article listed at Unassessed video game articles has been acessed. But, a few months ago, the talkpage crashed and would not let anyone on the page. Just now, the mainpage of the project crashed and in un-excessible as of now.What the hell is goin on? Gears of War 2 23:30, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Okay, so I know a lot of you all haven't seen me around too much except occasionally, and that's because I've been on an off-and-on wikibreak, mostly because I'm simply out of stuff that I want to do. I've been working on some lists like List of Sega Mega-CD games, but the repetitiveness involved just causes burnout, and I want to write an article again. But I don't know what to write. So instead, I want to do this:
I'm willing to work with someone to help them with an article, preferably something that is GA or FA-bound, but it really doesn't matter. I can copyedit well as a native English speaker and I'm a decent article writer, having written a GA, contributed to another, and written a FL. I'm not great at finding sources, but I do get by and can find some things here and there. Literally, I'm a bored Wikipedian who can't find something to keep going on, so I'm looking for job offers. Just post below what you might have for me to do, and I'll do whatever I think I'll like best. I don't need things like a barnstar for helping or anything, I just want to work on something, since I'm in between projects right now. Red Phoenix flame of life... protector of all... 05:15, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
Patrolling recent changes I found some anonymous edits made to Nicktoons Unite! article. As they were unexplained changes of content, I reverted them (with the proper edit summary). The same IP kept making changes (diffs [4], [5], [6], [7]). It may be sneaking vandalism, but I'm not familiar with the subject, so I couldn't say. I'm posting this notice in WikiProjects Nickelodeon, Video games and SpongeBob SquarePants so maybe somebody familiar with the subject can determine whether this is vandalism or not. -- PeterCantropus ( talk) 07:01, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
(grin at previous section heading)
At Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Midtown Madness, a final copyedit to help get this over the line has been requested by Tony. If any of the VG "word-nerds" (:-)) are willing to help out here, it'd be much appreciated! (And of course, I'd be happy to do any reviewing (since my copyediting sucks) in exchange... heck, I'm happy to do it anyway!) Cheers. — Giggy 10:14, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
I found Xen Gamers via N-Europe [8] which they state Xen Gamers translated said article from an Japanese magazine named "Arcadia". While I doubt anyone here has that mag, does anyone know if XG was reliable? « ₣M₣ » 00:57, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
OK, without bringing any extra baggage into this (I ask others to do the same), are characters from single games of a large series worth listing in a general character list? Is that appropriate for well managed articles and does it allow it to be complete without stepping over WP:NOT#IINFO? TTN ( talk) 01:52, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Just posting here that if anyone's got the spare time, energy, and interest, they should consider coming over to the Simple English Wikipedia, to help expand what we have for articles and add on some more. If so, take a visit here. - A Link to the Past (talk) 02:38, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
User Liontamer has been adding music credits to the Designer field of many infoboxes (including non-notable composers). [9] I'm not opposed to discussion of the game's music and notable credits within the article body, but this seems to be stretching the purpose of the infobox to include a special emphasis on music. Please discuss. Ham Pastrami ( talk) 01:29, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
Hey everyone: I'm a big video game music fan, and got into the habit of adding composers from seeing them credited in feature video game articles such as Final Fantasy VI. It was my understanding based on that that music designers were thus considered an important enough part of the creative process to merit infobox inclusion. In terms of adding NN composers, those happened to be only when they collaborated with a notable composer that I added. It didn't seem proper to only add 1 composer out of a team of, say, 4 just because the other 3 aren't as known. Regardless, the addition of any composers aren't meant to be a focus on music specifically at the expense or exclusion of other designers. It's simply that the music is my singular area of expertise. If I knew of other designers such as lead designers, character designers, scenario writers, etc., I would provide those as well, but I didn't believe I was obligated to know or provide that info. If anything, I was hoping other people would see the need to research and provide that information to compliment what I added so that other game articles mirrored the best articles. In any case, I'll continue to do what I can to add more, but will focus on the most notable/integral composers where the game and/or game soundtrack has been notably well-received and will try to avoid situations of adding NN/red-link names so that I don't run into this situation again. Hopefully that's satisfactory, but will watch to see what the response is. - Liontamer ( talk) 02:49, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm for removing the whole field. Who decides whether one of the staff members is "notable" or not? Hironobu Sakaguchi was credited on all Final Fantasy games from I to XI, but his importance gradually diminished with each installment... but at which point did he become "not important"? I think there's too much POV involved in deciding who's notable enough to be listed in that infobox field. The article's lead and development/history section do a better job at describing the designers' roles IMO ( Final Fantasy XI#Development explains Sakaguchi's role in that game for instance). Kariteh ( talk) 08:40, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
Let me through out another option: remove the names of any developers or other creative people from the infobox. This is not meant to be a harsh change, but the fact that the infobox should be only listing at-a-glance technical elements that are common across all games. VGs are not like movies where there's always a director and the like, so trying to always classify the key creative elements within the infobox across all games will be difficult. Mind you, in this case, I would strongly suggest that key names be added to the Lead and Development sections so they are still given their appropriate due. -- MASEM 15:04, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Masem. It's enough that we have a Developer field (note that other media don't have the benefit of this). Individual personalities can be called out in the prose, if they are similarly noted by the press. ALL of the information in the infobox is real-world. It's not like we are dumping this info in favor of a list of power-ups. So I don't see how that is a concern. The fact that the infobox is for all games suggests to me that the fields it contains should apply to at least the large majority of games. Otherwise we are customizing the infobox to support one-off features for a small handful of games. That is bloat. I also have to play the reality check card here -- no game staffer has the same iconic status as other media personalities. Will Wright does not compare to Steven Spielberg. John Carmack does not compare to Brad Pitt. Nobuo Uematsu does not compare to John Williams. Game credits are primarily for the gratification of VG fans, not for the benefit of the general encyclopedia-reading public. All we need is to attribute authorship, and the Developer field does a perfectly adequate job of that. Ham Pastrami ( talk) 10:25, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
A rough outline of what I have in mind, adapted from the current Supreme Commander infobox. Two extra fields, one for composer, one for writer. Supreme Commander was used since it was the closest game I had to hand that had a notable lead designer and a notable composer. Note that in practice, the writers field would not be used in the Supreme Commander article, as these two guys aren't notable and as such are little more than trivia. They're only filled in to show you what it looks like. Only Chris Taylor, one of the top 30 influencial people in the industry according to GameSpy (and I dare say other publications as well), and Jeremy Soule, a BAFTA award-winning composer with extensive work within the video games industry would be displayed.
I must emphasise this: any implementation of composer and writer fields, as well as current implementation of the designer field, should really be enforced to keep entries in these fields confined to notable people. Such enforcement seems like a reasonable compromise to me: between removing the technical stuff and removing the people stuff. -- Sabre ( talk) 11:25, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
*Sigh* Do exact titles and roles still need to be indicated in parentheses or not? Kariteh ( talk) 22:13, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
Okay, Blue Dragon just went through a huge GA review and I am not very good at fixing the problems listed. I need some serious help. Please, someone with a bit more experience help me out with some of the more difficult fixes. Help would really be appriciated. King Rock (Gears of War) 18:36, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
Alright, the old character template here Template:Super Smash Bros. fighters was supposedly merged with this one here Template:Super Smash Bros. series. Yet apparently there was a discussion to not keep any of the characters listed because beyond the game "they aren't linked to each other".
Now the last I checked crossover fighters were generally regarded as being "in their own continuity" in the case of series, and SSBM does show there is some semblance of continuity maintained albeit in bits in the Subspace Emissary hubub. So first off, where did this discussion take place exactly? And has anyone really considered the fact a template that lists only three games that are going to end up mentioned in the respective articles isn't much of a template to begin with?-- Kung Fu Man ( talk) 01:56, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
To me, the issue is simpler than all of this - none of these characters have Smash Bros as their main franchise, and thus this is not a useful organizational template. Especially because WP:CLN already says that this would be an inappropriate use of a series box - it should just be a category. Phil Sandifer ( talk) 15:37, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Hi! I was just wondering, what are the guidelines on language differences of video game titles? I looked Mobile Suit Gundam: Target in Sight up but on Wikipedia it is under Mobile Suit Gundam: Crossfire. My guess is, it's an original Japanese title, so that should be its article name... On the other hand, this is the English language Wikipedia, so that could be the norm too. Any thoughts? -- Soetermans | is listening | what he'd do now? 15:38, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for clearing that up! -- Soetermans | is listening | what he'd do now? 01:40, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Hellup :( For some reason the table of contents has been absorbed by the infobox, I can't see anything that would cause this. Would someone take a look? Someone another 16:48, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
After seeing this on a quick glance I have to say this, there's no way in hell every Soul Calibur character and every Darkstalker character fails notability. Merging all of that into one pile is beyond detrimental for starters, we still haven't even gotten the messes cleaned up from every other similar event. The Darkstalkers characters all have design evolution and similar up to high heaven from the three All About books related to the games, have been readily discussed in many formats and have promotional material that can be cited for each. The Soul Calibur characters, half of them tops can be made into good articles with work: here you say every single article should be merged because you (and I quote) "can't imagine any of these characters actually establishing any sort of notability", which is really funny because I found plenty to discuss reception for Ivy in 30 minuites and I still haven't worked it all into that article.
All of these articles that can be salvaged need improvement, citation, and actual research done to set up notability. You seem more interested on the other hand to sweep the characters into lists and make them as little informative as possible, and frankly I'm really tired of that approach. This isn't the Sonic characters. This is another Template:Pokémon directory or List of characters in The King of Fighters series or so on fiasco waiting to happen where it all gets dumped into the toilet so people have to sort it out afterwards and it informs nobody about anything.-- Kung Fu Man ( talk) 22:45, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
I wish you wouldn't do this. Phil Sandifer ( talk) 21:04, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm trying to organize and hammer Amy (Soul Calibur), Charade (Soul Calibur), Ivy (Soul Calibur), Necrid, Talim and Tira into good character articles (and yeah they're at various stages, there's been an anon being a pain about some bits and I've spread myself a little thin to counteract a merge proposal/TTN's ambition.
But as it stands I could use some resources not readily in my grasp, namely magazine-based reception material, design notes (Ivy doesn't need either as much, but the others do), and notes on their gameplay, including bits from player's guides that I can cite for aspects of it (such as something describing Necrid's Void cannon, or the enemy-only forms Charade ends up taking, like the legs version in SCII's Weapon Master mode).
Can anyone lend a hand with resources they might have on hand?-- Kung Fu Man ( talk) 22:28, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
I just noticed a new article, Glider (bot), which isn't too different from an article deleted at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Glider (MMORPG bot). It's not an exact recreation—it seems to cover some of the same material, but focuses more on the lawsuit and is better referenced. Just throwing it out there for a wider opinion. Pagra shtak 13:15, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Would some more people be able to give there opinions on whether or not Kirby Super Star Ultra should have its own article. Right now it seems that only one person wants to keep the articles merged, and I want to see what the greater population of the Video Game Wikiproject think.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kirby_Super_Star#Survay_for_seprating_the_articles -- Drkirby ( talk) 17:45, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
I think the header says it all. I was just wondering what steps had to be taken to upgrade this article to B-class. Thanks! LetsGo67 ( talk) 23:55, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
I posted at the reliable sources board about this but everyone's enjoying their weekend (why didn't I think of that?) and nobody's responding. I'm building an article about the casual game Chocolatier, and want to use at least one (preferably two) blog-posted interviews for the development section. [10] [11] The problem I've got is that the more 'reliable' interviews (3 of) are good for nothing more than a sentence each, whereas these blogs actually discuss the development in a way you'd expect serious journalists to. Seeing as the article could easily be a GA with the exception of these, I'm annoyed. Is using these sources going to cause a problem or no? Someone another 18:28, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
(Everyone's time is appreciated). Let's make this simpler, forget the Pretty Sassy blog, Gamer Girl contains the details I need. It's been quoted in a single source as pointed out by Nifboy, two interviewees have linked back to their interviews and have made no disapproving noises. Moonpod (developers of Mr. Robot are interviewed (no link back that I can see), but they link to their review on the site. Tanya interviewed Michael McCoy, an industry veteran, who also happens to be a member of staff at her University. None of this smacks of a site which cannot be trusted to print interviews, which is all I'm asking of them. Someone another 00:05, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Post it. I've authored a few featured articles, and many of them drew from at least one unreliable source, whether a self-published interview on a developer's website, a fan site that delved deeper than any trade publication would on something notable, or even poorly-translated Japanese press releases. I even contacted one of the developers for The Real Adventures of Jonny Quest to clarify some points of an article when writing that one. In each case I understood the information to be totally reliable, even if it went against Wikipedia policy to post it. At best, not including these would lead to citation neededs that might even prevent FA status. At worst, the information itself would not be included because of the lack of citations, and thus the article would, in spirit or in actuality, fail the comprehensiveness requirement of a Featured Article.
For instance, Chrono Trigger had a beta version. It's notable: the beta cartridge sells for $300+ on Ebay, was mentioned in a magazine once, and contains a lot of insight into the development of the game. Did IGN cover it? No. Neither did any other journals, professional websites, or press. So I cited a fan site. And if you follow the link, you will see graphically exactly what is described in the article. Perhaps I flouted the rules, but doing so enhanced the article's comprehensiveness and informed the reader more than if I would have just left off the information. Few Wikipedians are authoritatively, usually "right" about issues. Editors only familiar with biographies or biology have sometimes picked apart video game articles in FAC without understanding certain convention (like the natural Gameplay > Plot > Reception flow, etc.). Do what accomplishes Wikipedia's goals. You have precedent and policy. ZeaLitY [ DREAM - REFLECT ] 05:08, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 45 | ← | Archive 49 | Archive 50 | Archive 51 | Archive 52 | Archive 53 | → | Archive 55 |
Alright, the Tekken characters are a mess so I'll be brief. Put up a whole slew of them for merge proposals:
The one shot bosses are pointed at their respective game articles (Azazel, Combot, NANCY, Jinpachi, Unknown). Devil is pointed at Kazuya Mishima. The others are pointed at List of minor Tekken characters. The rest of the articles could probably be worked on, salvaged, and improved with some reception and possible development points, and the Tekken 6 characters possibly too (I'm pretty sure Bob has a lot of reception to work with, given I've already seen comparisons between SF4's Rufus and him, thus why I didn't drop a merge tag on his page as well).-- Kung Fu Man ( talk) 23:38, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Adding to this, a proposal to merge Yoshimitsu (Soul Calibur) and Yoshimitsu (Tekken). It's never stated that these are the same guys or not, but they share the same moves and info to an insane degree. Combining them would probably help towards making one good article out of two crappy ones.-- Kung Fu Man ( talk) 23:45, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Adding two to this:
The first seems a given since Forrest is basically a replacement for his father and only in one game excluding Tag. The Williams...are more because they end up intertwined. You effectively can't mention one sister without the other, though at the same time if enough can be proven that Anna is better off with her own article (reception + development), then a merger wouldn't be worth the effort.-- Kung Fu Man ( talk) 02:32, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
Alright, updates:
Expanded somewhat. Removed a lot of the rubbish in Template:Soul characters, which involved characxters already on the minor page or those that just belonged in the strategy game's char list instead. Every character listed there as "Bonus" is poised for a merger with the minor character list.-- Kung Fu Man ( talk) 01:54, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
I've been cleaning up this article for a while now, and it's getting to the point where I can't really see the wood for the trees. I could really do with the help of some fresh pairs of eyes to run over the article, particularly in the lead, development and legacy sections so that I can finish cleaning it up and prepare it for a Good Article renomination. many thanks! Gazi moff( mentor/ review) 17:53, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
Lead
Gameplay
Development
Post-launch development
Corrupted Blood plague incident
Audio
Reception
Legacy
References
Copyright issues
General
Got a minor debate going, could use some input from folks related to the project. User:74.242.122.25 is arguing for the Japanese text to be "Warrior(s) of the Demon Realm Tower"; I on the other hand am wanting to stick with "Warrior in the Tower of the Spirit World ~ Sa·Ga", the name used in a citable format on the soundtrack as shown by several sources including VGM World and Amazon.com, both of which I cited. His argument is that a translation does not need citations due to WP:MOS-JP. So input is needed to determine which should stick in a nutshell.
The discussion on the talk page.-- Kung Fu Man ( talk) 18:10, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm in favor of Gazimoff's suggestion to use a referenced translation beside a literal one. I've seen other articles do this, as well. Considering, games often use different titles across each localisation, it's important to outline the original source in a fashion as literal as possible to avoid any misconception that it does compare to the new, localised title. Although, I can't concede that the data provided about this soundtrack is official enough to be considered a common name in the first place, since the common name of the localised version is simply "The Final Fantasy Legend." 74.242.104.211 ( talk) 17:37, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Or we could not deal with this Japanese crap by just having the english title. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk) 18:56, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
A while back I nominated Grand Theft Auto: Vice City soundtrack (which is basically a word-for-word reconstruction of everything you'll ever hear on any radio station in GTA:VC), for merging into Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Official Soundtrack Box Set, which is an actual album release of the game's soundtrack. Not much discussion ensued. Can I temp anyone to venture a comment or two? Thanks, Miremare 20:47, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
Is there an equivalent site to IMDb that lists a person's work in film/video games/books but is not user contributed and therefore has a chance at passing as a reliable source? I'm thinking of ways to reference the career section for Chris Metzen, but most interviews don't focus on what his work is, but who he is and how he does his work. An alternative would be to directly cite the game manuals (although I don't have all the games to cite all the manuals): would that be suitable? -- Sabre ( talk) 09:09, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
What about Allgame? Unfortunately the entry for Metzen is empty, but he's listed on credit pages like this one. Someone another 12:55, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Above article was tagged for cleanup - would someone like to check it
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Fable_II&oldid=228425930
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Fable_II&oldid=228427420
and make suggestions on the talk page in terms of further work etc... Thanks. 87.102.86.73 ( talk) 17:19, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Sonic: The Fated Hour is about a fangame that has been in the making for going on 10 years now. This article has been deleted four times (see the second incarnation's AfD discussion here and re-created four times. It apparently was also salted after the third time, but even the salt was also lifted from the page. On top of that, it was also recreated by the same person every time.
Should this be deleted and possibly salted again? (I'm asking here because of the obvious lapses in judgment I've been having lately in nominating articles for deletion.) MuZemike ( talk) 19:24, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
I should also note that the creator of this article has had some past significant issues regarding vandalism, incivility, edit warring, and launching of personal attacks towards individual users (in particular, to those who have nominated the article for AfD in the part), and he/she has wonton disregard towards Wikipedia policies and guidelines, despite the numerous warnings and one block given.
If we're going to move forward with this, then we need to exercise some caution as well as keeping this user on a proverbial short leash in light of the circumstances. MuZemike ( talk) 21:36, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
I'd appreciate project members' input over at the AFD for this article. My neutrality ( COI) is being called in to question for being able to vote or not at the AFD because I'm also a co-organizer of the event. (I intrepet COI and the language of the entire page refering to editing of material in the actual article itself, and controvercial edits that could be made in the article). Regardless, I'd appreciate other project members weighing in their viewpoints (regardless if you're for or against the article continuing to exist). -- Marty Goldberg ( talk) 20:08, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Done
I'd appreciate if someone could help me out by uploading two images. You'd be helping out with a featured article candidate in a significant way. The two images I need:
You'd be doing me a huge favor. The reason I'd rather someone else upload it is a long story, but needless to say it would be relatively easy for someone else. I'll start offering cookies if I have to :) Randomran ( talk) 22:41, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Thanks guys. Assuming no more issues are raised about the images in this article, we should be safe for now. We'll see what the other reviewers say. Randomran ( talk) 01:28, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm seeing a lot of edits by Sfan00 IMG who is removing links to sites with the comment "Remove Link - Don't link sites that link to copyvio!!" (look at his edit history). Are we really liable for what other sites link to? From what I've seen, some of the links he removes link to other sites, but don't actually have the games for download themselves. I can see not directly linking to warez sites, but are we supposed to police what sites we link to link to? Isn't this kind of a slippery slope? Is there a policy on this? — Frecklefσσt | Talk 12:25, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
I've been marking some sources in articles as unreliable but my edits have been reverted. I would like to know whether MobyGames really is reliable or not? Thanks. Weirdo with a Beardo ( talk) 13:27, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
This is a heads up to all editors who have articles they hope to get to the main page- In addition to the flux going on with the rules for the point system, there is now a box on the talk page of the TFA nomination page for people to put there articles into, in order to hash out the point values for an article gets before it is nominated. A side effect of this, however, is that articles that could have multiple good days to run jostle around in order to not overlap with others, so if you have an article you want to be on the main page in the next 60 days, best to get it in there before the day gets blocked by a high-scoring article. -- PresN ( talk) 16:10, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
Hi guys, just wanted to ask for some help. A couple of times in the past the article for the MMOG game Astro_empires [1] has been deleted because it was considered non-notable. I was the original creator of the article back in early 2007 and then someone else restarted it later that year. Now the game, I feel at least meets notability as it has been featured in Portugal's (Its a Portuguese game) most read newspaper [2] (Online version, was in printed paper) as well as continued growth to over 30,000 players.
There is currently a discussion on having the article deleted again here and I would appreciate it if you guys could lend your two cent to the arguments. Thanks very much Butch-cassidy ( talk) 16:50, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
Okay, there are a bunch of value packs for the PSP and I thought I should make an article for the God of War PSP value pack. What do you guys think? Will it be notable enough? King Rock (Gears of War) 18:24, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
Just a heads up, I've just had two screenshots deleted from the Shadowgrounds article. The deletion is discussed at Wikipedia:Images_and_media_for_deletion/2008_July_23#Image:Shadowgrounds2.jpg. There were two screenshots, I had only argued for one to be kept, but they both went. They were sourced and included a fair use rationale.
You'll see that the main argument is from pd_THOR, stating that as the Shadowgrounds article has no reliable sources, any claim made of the screenshot's use in depicting the graphics engine/camera angle/gameplay/HUD etc. is rendered void because there were no reliable sources in the article telling you why graphics are important.
The closing argument suggests that in addition to this, readers need hand holding. So you'd probably need more detailed captions than those I provided, because they can't figure out that a gameplay screenshot is meant to demonstrate gameplay. I don't know if they're trying to delete more screenshots, but if you provide sources and rationales, they do have to jump through a few more hoops.
It's probably worth reuploading one gameplay screenshot for obvious reasons, but I can't be bothered right now, and it's probably best to wait until it's no so watched and people forget. - hahnch e n 23:29, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
The skeleton closet topic got me thinking: Anyone interested in reviving the Wikipedia:Gaming Collaboration of the week? I used to enjoy the process of focusing on one stub as a WikiProject and improving it. JACO PLANE • 2008-07-24 21:52
I don't know if I can do it every week, but I'd be willing to help out when I can. Red Phoenix flame of life... protector of all... 00:21, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
I agree with the core topics bit as well, although I wouldn't want it to be 100% exclusive to them. We just need to keep an eye open for the thing that was mentioned by most people when the COTW went bump, in that there were articles nominated that they didn't feel any passion for. - X201 ( talk) 09:04, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
I suggested this a while ago, but had an idea of a two-pronged approach. We would have two articles up for GCOT(indiscriminate time period): the first would be a core article (restricted to top or high priority articles) with the intent of getting those to better than GA status (with one person committed to seeing the article through FA), and a second being any other article that needs a reasonable push from Stub/Start/C class up to B class/GA quality. In the first case, most of these articles don't have an author invested yet they are core, so it makes sense to get a large group effort on them. The second case, there must be someone who nominated the the article that is willing to do most of the footwork with the suggestions of the GCOT(itp). In this fashion, there would be two possible ways a user could contribute. -- MASEM 10:57, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
Alright then, give me a couple of days to get this started. Am I right that the consensus is for a "collaboration of the fortnight"? I'll try to get this done tomorrow, otherwise by Wednesday. JACO PLANE • 2008-07-27 21:13
Looks like VG got another random front page hit for BioShock, scheduled for August 2nd. Not as worried about this as with Guitar Hero, but I could appreciate a few watchlist eyes for the usual shenanigans. (I hope this doesn't wreck the chance for Myst being an anniversary FA). -- MASEM 23:49, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
I have started this page just to give further info as it is released and then move it to the mainspace when it's done. Help would be appriciated. Gears of War 2 03:11, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
I have a question about reliability of some sources. I've read all the guides about reliability, neutrality, verifiability and concepts of majority and minorities (to be ignored by wiki standards), and understand the fact that pools aren't reliable most of the times (as it is in the guides) because they might be easy to corrupt (ie one guy votes 4, 5 times, etc). Ok, the point is, Blizzard made a pool a while ago in Battle Net, and asked fan sites (Diablofans, DiabloII.net) to do the same about certain aspects of Diablo III. All the 3 pools were acessible only to long-time registered fans close to the game developement, and they could vote only once, with names taken and open for everyone to see. Is this the case pools can be considered reliable? Could i cite the pools, using the term "fans close to the game developement" ? Atriel ( talk) 06:14, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
An interesting question, but a potential minefield and something I think a fair few people are familiar with. A lot of "Special" or "Collectors Edition" versions of videogames are now being released on a fairly regular basis. As well as including things like soundtrack CDs and so on, a lot of these also include "Making Of" DVDs that could be a potential goldmine for the development section of their article on WP. The question I have is, can they be included as a citable source? As they're a primary source, are there any restrictions or concerns that I should bear in mind if citing from one? My gut feeling is that they should be treated like a director's commentary from a film DVD - citable but don't rely heavily from them. If anyone's had experience from this area in the past, especially in the GA or FA arena, it'd be most appreciated. Many thanks, Gazi moff 06:21, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
I note that Wii Remote has pricing in the infobox and in the body of the text. This seems to go against most other articles, where prices are saved for just console articles, and even then, are only included in a SKU section. Just wondering if Wii Remote should indeed include pricing, and if so, where. Thanks! Fin © ™ 11:33, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
WP:NOPRICES item 4 - X201 ( talk) 11:41, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
So why are the prices listed on the all the pages listed at List of Virtual Console games? They fall under Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_directory- item 4. The prices of downloadable games certainly aren't notable at this time. This issue has been brought up several times (here, as well as the talk pages for the lists), and usually is forgotten or just dropped due to people getting frustrated with the situation (the previous discussions resulted in many people yelling at each other about prices being listed/not listed, edit wars, etc). The only progress that was ever made: a column was removed, because each type of game was the same price. I strongly still feel all the prices should be removed, due to the link I listed above. I would just be bold and remove the information, but I know it would be reverted pretty quick. Also, the same thing should apply to the other download service out now: Xbox Live Arcade. I looked at Playstation Network a bit, and didn't see any mass listings of prices, so I think that's the only one that we don't need to worry about. Can we make a decision on this, and make sure it stands? RobJ1981 ( talk) 11:56, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Somebody really needs to stop adding Devil May Cry 4 voice role for Kari Wahlgren. Kari Wahlgren only voiced the one for Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening, not Devil May Cry 4. Stop adding that again and again and again when I'm trying to correct that link by deleting that. Stop it already! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Patient Ascher ( talk • contribs) 17:08, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
I have moved the Requests for assessment from a section on Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Assessment to Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Requests for assessment, which is then transcluded back. The idea is that the rest of Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Assessment is vital project stuff and we shouldn't encourage so much traffic. Now it still looks the same, but your watchlist should only reflect changes to the Project's Assessment scheme itself, and the requests on a separate page. This didn't seem controversial to me, but I thought I should mention it here anyways. Cheers! ~ JohnnyMrNinja 18:22, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
The peer review for Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe, an article within the scope of the Military history WikiProject, is now open. The Military history WikiProject is currently partnering with our project to share peer reviews, so all editors are cordially invited to participate, and any input there would be very appreciated! Thanks! Kirill ( prof) 20:50, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
The Guitar Hero series is now a Featured Topic Candidate. -- MASEM 03:08, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
The infobox for Assassin's Creed uses some HTML/CSS to get a scrollable box for the system requirements. I think this is a great solution that doesn't require the use of external tables and such. Would it be possible and agreeable to make this a standard feature of the infobox? Ham Pastrami ( talk) 21:58, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Okay starting with the good:Every article listed at Unassessed video game articles has been acessed. But, a few months ago, the talkpage crashed and would not let anyone on the page. Just now, the mainpage of the project crashed and in un-excessible as of now.What the hell is goin on? Gears of War 2 23:30, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Okay, so I know a lot of you all haven't seen me around too much except occasionally, and that's because I've been on an off-and-on wikibreak, mostly because I'm simply out of stuff that I want to do. I've been working on some lists like List of Sega Mega-CD games, but the repetitiveness involved just causes burnout, and I want to write an article again. But I don't know what to write. So instead, I want to do this:
I'm willing to work with someone to help them with an article, preferably something that is GA or FA-bound, but it really doesn't matter. I can copyedit well as a native English speaker and I'm a decent article writer, having written a GA, contributed to another, and written a FL. I'm not great at finding sources, but I do get by and can find some things here and there. Literally, I'm a bored Wikipedian who can't find something to keep going on, so I'm looking for job offers. Just post below what you might have for me to do, and I'll do whatever I think I'll like best. I don't need things like a barnstar for helping or anything, I just want to work on something, since I'm in between projects right now. Red Phoenix flame of life... protector of all... 05:15, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
Patrolling recent changes I found some anonymous edits made to Nicktoons Unite! article. As they were unexplained changes of content, I reverted them (with the proper edit summary). The same IP kept making changes (diffs [4], [5], [6], [7]). It may be sneaking vandalism, but I'm not familiar with the subject, so I couldn't say. I'm posting this notice in WikiProjects Nickelodeon, Video games and SpongeBob SquarePants so maybe somebody familiar with the subject can determine whether this is vandalism or not. -- PeterCantropus ( talk) 07:01, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
(grin at previous section heading)
At Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Midtown Madness, a final copyedit to help get this over the line has been requested by Tony. If any of the VG "word-nerds" (:-)) are willing to help out here, it'd be much appreciated! (And of course, I'd be happy to do any reviewing (since my copyediting sucks) in exchange... heck, I'm happy to do it anyway!) Cheers. — Giggy 10:14, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
I found Xen Gamers via N-Europe [8] which they state Xen Gamers translated said article from an Japanese magazine named "Arcadia". While I doubt anyone here has that mag, does anyone know if XG was reliable? « ₣M₣ » 00:57, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
OK, without bringing any extra baggage into this (I ask others to do the same), are characters from single games of a large series worth listing in a general character list? Is that appropriate for well managed articles and does it allow it to be complete without stepping over WP:NOT#IINFO? TTN ( talk) 01:52, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Just posting here that if anyone's got the spare time, energy, and interest, they should consider coming over to the Simple English Wikipedia, to help expand what we have for articles and add on some more. If so, take a visit here. - A Link to the Past (talk) 02:38, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
User Liontamer has been adding music credits to the Designer field of many infoboxes (including non-notable composers). [9] I'm not opposed to discussion of the game's music and notable credits within the article body, but this seems to be stretching the purpose of the infobox to include a special emphasis on music. Please discuss. Ham Pastrami ( talk) 01:29, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
Hey everyone: I'm a big video game music fan, and got into the habit of adding composers from seeing them credited in feature video game articles such as Final Fantasy VI. It was my understanding based on that that music designers were thus considered an important enough part of the creative process to merit infobox inclusion. In terms of adding NN composers, those happened to be only when they collaborated with a notable composer that I added. It didn't seem proper to only add 1 composer out of a team of, say, 4 just because the other 3 aren't as known. Regardless, the addition of any composers aren't meant to be a focus on music specifically at the expense or exclusion of other designers. It's simply that the music is my singular area of expertise. If I knew of other designers such as lead designers, character designers, scenario writers, etc., I would provide those as well, but I didn't believe I was obligated to know or provide that info. If anything, I was hoping other people would see the need to research and provide that information to compliment what I added so that other game articles mirrored the best articles. In any case, I'll continue to do what I can to add more, but will focus on the most notable/integral composers where the game and/or game soundtrack has been notably well-received and will try to avoid situations of adding NN/red-link names so that I don't run into this situation again. Hopefully that's satisfactory, but will watch to see what the response is. - Liontamer ( talk) 02:49, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm for removing the whole field. Who decides whether one of the staff members is "notable" or not? Hironobu Sakaguchi was credited on all Final Fantasy games from I to XI, but his importance gradually diminished with each installment... but at which point did he become "not important"? I think there's too much POV involved in deciding who's notable enough to be listed in that infobox field. The article's lead and development/history section do a better job at describing the designers' roles IMO ( Final Fantasy XI#Development explains Sakaguchi's role in that game for instance). Kariteh ( talk) 08:40, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
Let me through out another option: remove the names of any developers or other creative people from the infobox. This is not meant to be a harsh change, but the fact that the infobox should be only listing at-a-glance technical elements that are common across all games. VGs are not like movies where there's always a director and the like, so trying to always classify the key creative elements within the infobox across all games will be difficult. Mind you, in this case, I would strongly suggest that key names be added to the Lead and Development sections so they are still given their appropriate due. -- MASEM 15:04, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Masem. It's enough that we have a Developer field (note that other media don't have the benefit of this). Individual personalities can be called out in the prose, if they are similarly noted by the press. ALL of the information in the infobox is real-world. It's not like we are dumping this info in favor of a list of power-ups. So I don't see how that is a concern. The fact that the infobox is for all games suggests to me that the fields it contains should apply to at least the large majority of games. Otherwise we are customizing the infobox to support one-off features for a small handful of games. That is bloat. I also have to play the reality check card here -- no game staffer has the same iconic status as other media personalities. Will Wright does not compare to Steven Spielberg. John Carmack does not compare to Brad Pitt. Nobuo Uematsu does not compare to John Williams. Game credits are primarily for the gratification of VG fans, not for the benefit of the general encyclopedia-reading public. All we need is to attribute authorship, and the Developer field does a perfectly adequate job of that. Ham Pastrami ( talk) 10:25, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
A rough outline of what I have in mind, adapted from the current Supreme Commander infobox. Two extra fields, one for composer, one for writer. Supreme Commander was used since it was the closest game I had to hand that had a notable lead designer and a notable composer. Note that in practice, the writers field would not be used in the Supreme Commander article, as these two guys aren't notable and as such are little more than trivia. They're only filled in to show you what it looks like. Only Chris Taylor, one of the top 30 influencial people in the industry according to GameSpy (and I dare say other publications as well), and Jeremy Soule, a BAFTA award-winning composer with extensive work within the video games industry would be displayed.
I must emphasise this: any implementation of composer and writer fields, as well as current implementation of the designer field, should really be enforced to keep entries in these fields confined to notable people. Such enforcement seems like a reasonable compromise to me: between removing the technical stuff and removing the people stuff. -- Sabre ( talk) 11:25, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
*Sigh* Do exact titles and roles still need to be indicated in parentheses or not? Kariteh ( talk) 22:13, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
Okay, Blue Dragon just went through a huge GA review and I am not very good at fixing the problems listed. I need some serious help. Please, someone with a bit more experience help me out with some of the more difficult fixes. Help would really be appriciated. King Rock (Gears of War) 18:36, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
Alright, the old character template here Template:Super Smash Bros. fighters was supposedly merged with this one here Template:Super Smash Bros. series. Yet apparently there was a discussion to not keep any of the characters listed because beyond the game "they aren't linked to each other".
Now the last I checked crossover fighters were generally regarded as being "in their own continuity" in the case of series, and SSBM does show there is some semblance of continuity maintained albeit in bits in the Subspace Emissary hubub. So first off, where did this discussion take place exactly? And has anyone really considered the fact a template that lists only three games that are going to end up mentioned in the respective articles isn't much of a template to begin with?-- Kung Fu Man ( talk) 01:56, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
To me, the issue is simpler than all of this - none of these characters have Smash Bros as their main franchise, and thus this is not a useful organizational template. Especially because WP:CLN already says that this would be an inappropriate use of a series box - it should just be a category. Phil Sandifer ( talk) 15:37, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Hi! I was just wondering, what are the guidelines on language differences of video game titles? I looked Mobile Suit Gundam: Target in Sight up but on Wikipedia it is under Mobile Suit Gundam: Crossfire. My guess is, it's an original Japanese title, so that should be its article name... On the other hand, this is the English language Wikipedia, so that could be the norm too. Any thoughts? -- Soetermans | is listening | what he'd do now? 15:38, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for clearing that up! -- Soetermans | is listening | what he'd do now? 01:40, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Hellup :( For some reason the table of contents has been absorbed by the infobox, I can't see anything that would cause this. Would someone take a look? Someone another 16:48, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
After seeing this on a quick glance I have to say this, there's no way in hell every Soul Calibur character and every Darkstalker character fails notability. Merging all of that into one pile is beyond detrimental for starters, we still haven't even gotten the messes cleaned up from every other similar event. The Darkstalkers characters all have design evolution and similar up to high heaven from the three All About books related to the games, have been readily discussed in many formats and have promotional material that can be cited for each. The Soul Calibur characters, half of them tops can be made into good articles with work: here you say every single article should be merged because you (and I quote) "can't imagine any of these characters actually establishing any sort of notability", which is really funny because I found plenty to discuss reception for Ivy in 30 minuites and I still haven't worked it all into that article.
All of these articles that can be salvaged need improvement, citation, and actual research done to set up notability. You seem more interested on the other hand to sweep the characters into lists and make them as little informative as possible, and frankly I'm really tired of that approach. This isn't the Sonic characters. This is another Template:Pokémon directory or List of characters in The King of Fighters series or so on fiasco waiting to happen where it all gets dumped into the toilet so people have to sort it out afterwards and it informs nobody about anything.-- Kung Fu Man ( talk) 22:45, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
I wish you wouldn't do this. Phil Sandifer ( talk) 21:04, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm trying to organize and hammer Amy (Soul Calibur), Charade (Soul Calibur), Ivy (Soul Calibur), Necrid, Talim and Tira into good character articles (and yeah they're at various stages, there's been an anon being a pain about some bits and I've spread myself a little thin to counteract a merge proposal/TTN's ambition.
But as it stands I could use some resources not readily in my grasp, namely magazine-based reception material, design notes (Ivy doesn't need either as much, but the others do), and notes on their gameplay, including bits from player's guides that I can cite for aspects of it (such as something describing Necrid's Void cannon, or the enemy-only forms Charade ends up taking, like the legs version in SCII's Weapon Master mode).
Can anyone lend a hand with resources they might have on hand?-- Kung Fu Man ( talk) 22:28, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
I just noticed a new article, Glider (bot), which isn't too different from an article deleted at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Glider (MMORPG bot). It's not an exact recreation—it seems to cover some of the same material, but focuses more on the lawsuit and is better referenced. Just throwing it out there for a wider opinion. Pagra shtak 13:15, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Would some more people be able to give there opinions on whether or not Kirby Super Star Ultra should have its own article. Right now it seems that only one person wants to keep the articles merged, and I want to see what the greater population of the Video Game Wikiproject think.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kirby_Super_Star#Survay_for_seprating_the_articles -- Drkirby ( talk) 17:45, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
I think the header says it all. I was just wondering what steps had to be taken to upgrade this article to B-class. Thanks! LetsGo67 ( talk) 23:55, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
I posted at the reliable sources board about this but everyone's enjoying their weekend (why didn't I think of that?) and nobody's responding. I'm building an article about the casual game Chocolatier, and want to use at least one (preferably two) blog-posted interviews for the development section. [10] [11] The problem I've got is that the more 'reliable' interviews (3 of) are good for nothing more than a sentence each, whereas these blogs actually discuss the development in a way you'd expect serious journalists to. Seeing as the article could easily be a GA with the exception of these, I'm annoyed. Is using these sources going to cause a problem or no? Someone another 18:28, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
(Everyone's time is appreciated). Let's make this simpler, forget the Pretty Sassy blog, Gamer Girl contains the details I need. It's been quoted in a single source as pointed out by Nifboy, two interviewees have linked back to their interviews and have made no disapproving noises. Moonpod (developers of Mr. Robot are interviewed (no link back that I can see), but they link to their review on the site. Tanya interviewed Michael McCoy, an industry veteran, who also happens to be a member of staff at her University. None of this smacks of a site which cannot be trusted to print interviews, which is all I'm asking of them. Someone another 00:05, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Post it. I've authored a few featured articles, and many of them drew from at least one unreliable source, whether a self-published interview on a developer's website, a fan site that delved deeper than any trade publication would on something notable, or even poorly-translated Japanese press releases. I even contacted one of the developers for The Real Adventures of Jonny Quest to clarify some points of an article when writing that one. In each case I understood the information to be totally reliable, even if it went against Wikipedia policy to post it. At best, not including these would lead to citation neededs that might even prevent FA status. At worst, the information itself would not be included because of the lack of citations, and thus the article would, in spirit or in actuality, fail the comprehensiveness requirement of a Featured Article.
For instance, Chrono Trigger had a beta version. It's notable: the beta cartridge sells for $300+ on Ebay, was mentioned in a magazine once, and contains a lot of insight into the development of the game. Did IGN cover it? No. Neither did any other journals, professional websites, or press. So I cited a fan site. And if you follow the link, you will see graphically exactly what is described in the article. Perhaps I flouted the rules, but doing so enhanced the article's comprehensiveness and informed the reader more than if I would have just left off the information. Few Wikipedians are authoritatively, usually "right" about issues. Editors only familiar with biographies or biology have sometimes picked apart video game articles in FAC without understanding certain convention (like the natural Gameplay > Plot > Reception flow, etc.). Do what accomplishes Wikipedia's goals. You have precedent and policy. ZeaLitY [ DREAM - REFLECT ] 05:08, 3 August 2008 (UTC)