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I looked up the books and most of them are not self-published; they are published by university presses like University of Arizona and University of Texas. 18:12, 28 March 2015 (UTC) — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
76.250.36.227 (
talk)
Keep In this academic area, the
h-index of 24 given by Google Scholar for the subject looks like a reasonably good indicator that she meets
WP:PROF#C1 (though I'm open to correction if other sources suggests that this is one of the cases where GScholar has got things wrong).
PWilkinson (
talk)
16:16, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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The result was keep. Editors who have suggested that the text be merged elsewhere should feel free to pursue that option if they wish. --
Ed (
Edgar181)
14:49, 4 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep. A well-known non-SI metric unit. Plenty of references exist, and two have been added to the article. Also, as another editor notes below, this is not dictionary content; it's weights and measures, which is almanac content, specifically included in
WP:5. The definition section is no longer blank, so there is no longer a valid deletion criterion. --
120.17.41.188 (
talk)
23:07, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment This is not an issue of notability and thus not a question of the existence of references or how well-known it is. It is a question if it is capable of becoming more than a dictionary definition, this doesn't meet the standards of a stub. There is no purpose in keeping an article about an obsolete unit of measurement that will never go beyond a dictionary definition, regardless of whether it is material that would be included in an almanac or not. Be careful of editors who
WP:CHERRYPICK Wikipedia policies to support their statements. Also per
WP:5,
Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, more specifically, Information should not be included in this encyclopedia solely because it is true or useful. An encyclopedia article should not be a complete exposition of all possible details, but a summary of accepted knowledge regarding its subject. There simply is not enough content here to warrant a standalone article. -
War wizard90 (
talk)
23:28, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment. There is enough material on the history of this unit to take this to a standalone article. You only say "there simply is not enough content here to warrant a standalone article" because you
have not looked. --
120.17.41.188 (
talk)
00:56, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
You're making assumptions, how do you know I
have not looked? I looked and did not find much, simply saying it was used in chemisty once isn't enough for a standalone article. Sure there are plenty of verifiable sources, but they all say the same few things about it. If you believe there is enough material on the history of the unit for a standalone article, then by all means, improve the article to avoid this deletion. You have made some improvements, but a history of once being used in chemistry still isn't enough. -
War wizard90 (
talk)
03:15, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete I vote delete because the content can fit easily in
Lambda and that article would serve as a better incubator for the content. if Lambda as a unit of measurement gets so much information in the article it can spin out we could then split the article and have Lambda (unit) be a great article not a stub.
Bryce Carmony (
talk)
00:23, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment. If the content is merged,
Lambda is in my view a poor target, because it has nothing to do with measurement. Logically
Lambda (unit) belongs with other non-SI metric units like
calorie,
erg, or
Angstrom, but most of those have their own page. Since it's an alternate name for "microlitre,"
litre might be an appropriate merge target. However, even if such a merge occurs (and I would argue against it), there is no reason at all to delete the article history. --
120.17.41.188 (
talk)
00:56, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Response The rason I think
Lambda would be a good article is that the article already has sections "Lambda as a name" and "Lambda as a programming construct" so having "Lambda as a unit of measurement" isn't that much of a strech for the article.
Bryce Carmony (
talk)
01:04, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep. I found another reference to its use in chemistry making think that it has some historical significance related to the early science of chemistry. Bfpage |
leave a message21:59, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment Read the nomination reason, the issue is not Notability, so finding more sources to backup previously made statements does NOT make this article somehow more worthy of inclusion. The issue is that there isn't enough information in reliable secondary sources to warrant anything more than a dictionary definition. So, perhaps, a transwiki to Wiktionary would be appropriate, but a dictionary definition of a rarely used term is not appropriate for an encyclopedia. Yes, it was historically used in chemistry/medicine and may see some small uses today, but how does that translate into an article that can "minimally" meet the requirements of a stub? Don't forget, AfD, is not here just to debate the merits of the notability of articles. Notability is not the only factor in determining the appropriateness of an article. Simply put, and as I already stated in the nomination,
Wikipedia is not a dictionary, this is nothing more than a dictionary definition with as yet, no substance to make it an article and no evidence that enough content is out there to make it substantial. -
War wizard90 (
talk)
01:26, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment. In spite of being deprecated, the lambda as a unit is still used. This is probably because it avoids errors where a µ is misread as an m (which, in medicine, would result in a massive overdose), but I haven't yet found a reliable reference for that. --
120.17.117.224 (
talk)
07:48, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Merge to a new section of
lambda. When I saw this, I was ready to hate yet-another-stupid-unit-article-with-the-almanach-crowd, but the article as it stands is more than just a dictionary definition: it discusses the problems with µL that can be mixed up with mL with what looks like a reliable source. Alas, this is a
WP:PERMASTUB, so I would merge it with
lambda.
Tigraan (
talk)
09:49, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Merge - per the rationale given by Tigraan; merging to
lambda seems like the best option, because while the article is notable, it will almost certainly never be expanded beyond a stub.
Inks.LWC (
talk)
02:23, 1 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep asaseparate article "never will be expanded beyond a stub" is not a reason to merge. permeant stub articles are appropriate when there is a separate and specific meaning. DGG (
talk )
03:29, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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Keep - Firstly, our policies and guidelines do not and have never banned articles because their source material "appears to be primarily a translation of Russian material" or any language's material. The writing of articles that are based primarily on non-English reliable sources is encouraged - See
Wikipedia:Systemic bias. It's hard to imagine such a monument in the United States or United Kingdom even being considered for AfD. Plenty of sources available in Russian or otherwise.
[1][2][3][4][5][6][7]. Secondly, by the nom's statement "No reliable sources in article" indicates a complete lack of following
WP:AFD's
WP:BEFORE. It took me seconds to find these sources. As WP:AFD states, if "adequate sources do appear to exist, the fact that they are not yet present in the article is not a proper basis for a nomination." --
Oakshade (
talk)
20:58, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment The thing is that with no english sources - the ones you linked to also appear to be all Russian sources, inclusion of them involves a certain level of
WP:OR that being said, I'd agree with the prior two suggestions to merge with
Nevyansk.
Simonm223 (
talk)
23:11, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep. Clearly notable 18th century building, which would be obviously notable whichever country it was situated in. Once again, we have editors who don't understand what OR is (a tiresomely increasing problem). Translations of foreign material do not fall into this category. Please actually bother to readWP:OR (or even the "this page in a nutshell" section) before you cite it. It really doesn't say what you think it does. --
Necrothesp (
talk)
09:23, 30 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep, obviously, due to extremely unusual nature and history of building from what I read in the article which makes it clearly noteworthy, so I would completely expect there would be sourcing about it. Further I assume good faith that the Russian language sources do serve as editor Oakshade asserts they do, just like we AGF about off-line sources. AGF rather than OR is the relevant assumption. Scant risk that this is a hoax which experienced editor Oakshade is pulling on us. :) --
doncram12:47, 30 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep. While this article could use some de-mystification, I see nothing concerning about notability. Why this was brought up is the greater mystery.--Aurictalk18:03, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Not a seperate crime. Murder is always premeditated. Premeditation is what distinguishes it from manslaughter. Even the link to the US law provided in the article states that murder by itself includes premeditation. The term Premeditated murder is nothing but a
pleonasm.
Tvx1
19:28, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep it's a stub now but it could be improved easily. deletion should be for articles that have no hope of being good. This article could easily rack up references to an articles worth of content.
Bryce Carmony (
talk)
00:09, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep and improve. Certainly not a pleonasm. The suggestion that pre-meditation is always an element of murder is verifiably wrong. In Bermuda, there is or was a "separate offence" of "premeditated murder" under section 286A of the Criminal Law Amendment Act 1980:
discussed in this judgment, which seems to have formerly carried a mandatory death penalty:
[8]. In England, a murder can certainly be committed without pre-meditation (see, for example,
page 497 of the 13th edition of Smith and Hogan's Criminal Law or any other book on English criminal law, such as these:
[9][10]. Lord Hailsham said that premeditation was unnecessary in
R v Cunningham, following Hyam v DPP. And this is a very well known fact). 18 U.S. Code
§ 1111 does speak of premeditated killings, in the context of first degree murder only, and one does find sources discussing this and calling it "premeditated murder":
[11]. One can also find discussion in the context of South Africa:
[12] (apparently a reference to the mandatory sentence imposed on "planned or premeditated murder" by section 51 of the Criminal Law Amendment Act 105 of 1997).
James500 (
talk)
05:30, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep - while it needs cleanup, it meets
WP:GNG; furthermore, as others have noted, premeditation is not an inherent part of murder in all jurisdictions.
Inks.LWC (
talk)
02:36, 1 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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Delete the content can easily find a home in
Clinical neuroscience. Clinical Neuro is small and could easily absorb the CBB model ( and any other models ) and if it gets big we can spin out later but right now this Article doesn't stand on its own.
Bryce Carmony (
talk)
00:17, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Delete None of the sources listed are usable per
WP:MEDRS, which should govern this article. And I don't think that it would be possible to find any usable sources.
Looie496 (
talk)
14:12, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Why Delete Guys please tell me what should I have to do?, to save this article!, This is my first article and I worked really hard on it. And its a valid article guys trust me.
Anup Allwin (
talk)
07:26, 30 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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The result was Procedural close. The previous debate closed as withdrawn only two hours before this opened, when the previous nominator correctly judged that no consensus would be reached. Another debate so soon after is not appropriate.
See
WP:DELETE: "After a deletion debate concludes and the page is kept, users should allow a reasonable amount of time to pass before nominating the same page for deletion again, to give editors the time to improve the page. Renominations shortly after the earlier debate are generally closed quickly" and "If you believe a page was wrongly deleted, or should have been deleted but wasn't, or a deletion discussion was improperly closed, you should discuss this with the person who performed the deletion, or closed the debate, on their talk page. If this fails to resolve the issue, you can request review of the closure at Wikipedia:Deletion review."
Fences&Windows21:03, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Per
WP:BLP1E - yes, it was a fairly noteworthy event at this time, however he is unlikely to receive ongoing event, the subject is otherwise unknown (#2), he has only received coverage in reguards to this (#1), and the event is relatively insignificant as a crash(#3) as it is not one of the "top few" which are often requoted, it will likely fall into insignificance, with no significant context, other than it is currently receiving lots of coverage. Suggest merging into
Germanwings Flight 9525 as appropriate.
Mdann52 (
talk)
17:06, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Strong Keep, completely disagree with the above, as: The subject is now well known by a large amount of people; his persona has received coverage not only with regard to the airplane crash, but also wrt mental health; every air crash is almost always very significant; and the context added is significant, too. -
Mardus (
talk)
17:14, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep. This is not a typical air crash; this is a rare and highly notable event of an individual in an unusual position of power over the lives of others taking those lives. This person will likely now be the subject of case studies for as long as there is manned flight.
bd2412T 17:17, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
Keep. Notable because it is very rare that an aeroplane crash is intentionally caused by the plane's own co-pilot, not by a hijacker or a terrorist. The article is well sourced too.
JIP |
Talk17:38, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Merge and Redirect. There is no reason to expect this person will ever be known for anything other than his role in this one event, which is (and will be) better documented in another article. In the very unlikely event that ever changed, it could be spun-out into a separate article, but that is speculative. -
Jason A. Quest (
talk)
17:42, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Being known for one event is not a valid deletion rationale. We have no policy that states articles for people should be deleted because they are known for one event. We do, however, have
WP:ONEEVENT that states, "If the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, a separate article is generally appropriate". If you're instead arguing that his role or the event is insignificant and can address the issues of
WP:LASTING now that industry standards for major airlines has changed as a result, then I'll need to review your sources that support your opinion on the matter. Meanwhile, there are several sources that state this does have lasting consequences for the industry and the individual and event has received significant coverage.
Mkdwtalk20:28, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep for the same reason I gave in the first debate some hours ago. (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Andreas Lubitz). Once all these tags go we can get down to actually working on the article.
Ulcerspar12 (
talk)
17:44, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Strong Keep - The whole crash and himself have obviously received alot of coverage and then there's the fact he appeared to have some sort of mental illness, As BD2412 notes this is extremely rare so IMHO should be kept. –
Davey2010Talk17:56, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
@
Mdann52: I would like to point you to this sentence, directly in the section that is tagged with
WP:BLP1E, "It is important for editors to understand two clear differentiations of the People notable for only one event guideline (WP:BIO1E) when compared with this policy (WP:BLP1E): WP:BLP1E should be applied only to biographies of living people and to biographies of low-profile individuals.". Living is italicized and was intentionally put in there because BLP deals in some cases of recently deceased, but there was a need to have parts of it not deal with that issue.
Mkdwtalk20:49, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak keep per BD2412 and Morhange. Looks like WP:1E on the face of it, but the wider issue of mental health looks bound to create extensive non-routine coverage.
GregorB (
talk)
17:59, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep Firstly, there are plently of sources concerning this person. Secondly, the merge of this article into the crash itself is unwise because the history of the pilot will really help to understand the genesis of the suicide. A long description of the personality in the crash article would look out of context. It is the reason why I would favour a separate article.
Malosse (
talk)
18:31, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
WP:BLP1E is "Biographies of Living People". That's what the "L" stands for in the link. Anyone citing that as a "policy based" argument is actually not. The wording for
WP:BIO1E is different.
WP:BLP1E and
WP:BIO1E are two of the most improperly cited rationales for deletion after
WP:NOT. Most people assume that anyone only notable for one event is not noteworthy enough for a standalone article which is not what the policy states at all. It actually, clearly states, "if media coverage of both the event and the individual's role grow larger, separate articles may become justified". This individual has received significant coverage because of their involvement. Almost unprecedented amounts for a pilot.
The incident already has lasting consequences per
WP:LASTING. Several airlines and alliances have stated industry wide changes as to the minimum number of authorized personnel in the cockpit. The German aviation authority is expected to introduce legislation (something directly cited in LASTING) which is why airlines have already introduced these policies. This is the very definition of
WP:LASTING and why we have it. Any statements that this will "likely" fall into insignificant is literally a personal opinion based on nothing found in a reliable source. We don't use
WP:OR to tell us the notability of things. We use publications and reliable sources.
This could arguably be a procedural close for no valid del rationale. I would also like to remind
Mdann52 that the previous AFD was closed less than two hours prior with a strong consensus as keep. A renomination falls under
WP:DPAFD and could constitute directly as disruption.
Mkdwtalk20:11, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
@
Mkdw: That was closed as a (speedy) keep as a withdrawn nomination. Remoninating one of those is generally, IMO, not as disruptive. Additionally, BLP1E also applies to recently deceased people, as does the rest of the policy, although that may just be my interpretation.
Mdann52 (
talk)
20:48, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
There's a sentence directly in
WP:BLP1E that addresses the issue of
WP:BIO1E, in that context, and says "WP:BLP1E should be applied only to biographies of living people and to biographies of low-profile individuals." so I strongly contest your interpretation. The word is even italicized to point that out. As for the previous AFD, it was highly participated in with a clear keep outcome. The nominator even ended up !voting "Snow keep". Had this simply been a standard withdrawal, I would agree, but I think anyone looking at it would see it as
double jeopardy.
Mkdwtalk20:50, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete. Two things. If this is a notable social media network, it needs, by definition, some serious widespread sourcing to be notable; failing multiple articles in mainstream sources that report on online media, it's not notable. Second, one would expect such coverage to be sufficiently in-depth. Cunard has done (as usual) a remarkable job in finding coverage, but they appear to be lacking in both breadth and depth. In other words, as is suggested by at least two editors, it may be too soon for this outfit.
Drmies (
talk)
02:46, 5 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete I agree with RHaworth, and groaned inwardly as I saw this article. On a more serious note though, I barely see evidence the social network exists
[13] let alone its notability. Sources used in the article...Buzzfeed...and an article on a .biz domain titled "How I broke new social media site Natter in 120 seconds"... Natter may someday be a great site (I certainly hope not) but it is far
WP:TOOSOON to merit an article. ―Padenton|
✉05:25, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete One source:
[14] (looks like the same one Padenton spoke of). That "natter" actually means something in normal English (= small talks) adds a lot of unrelated results and I might miss some from that, but it could be a good case of
WP:TOOSOON. 野狼院ひさしu/
t/
c12:47, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
I am constantly being sent press releases about websites that claim to be the next big thing about social media but Natter wants to be the next small thing, serving up a Twitter-like platform with a limit of just three words. It's fun coming up with creative ways to express yourself with such a tight deadline or reading other people's posts. I can't see this becoming a platform people have actual conversations on them.
PCR deputy editor Laura Barnes shares her views on the new social media website that's just secured a six-figure investment.
...
Described by its developers as a nano social networking platform, ‘Natter.com was conceptualised as a three word networking service to allow friends to connect through short and snappy messages offering a new social experience’.
...
“Natters tend to fall into one of three types: deeply considered and thought provoking three word statements, often with a sense of mystery, a simple check in such as ‘in the pub’ or those looking for the challenge and fun that comes with sharing their views in just three words,” comments founder Neil Stanley.
Natter.com, the three word social network, has today received its first investment in the company as business ‘Angels’ have invested an undisclosed six-figure sum to help the tech startup continue to grow.
@
Cunard: First, I would appreciate it if you would remove all the webcitation links from your comments, as it makes it difficult for anyone to look at archiveurls are rarely used in deletion discussions, and the websites often strip away any stylesheets/images making the content very difficult to read.
I'll come back to this
I'm going to need to see more info before we declare TechSpark as having "Editorial Oversight" Maybe ask for comment at
WP:RSN? This article also doesn't seem to have much encyclopedic information.
Citing the developers as a source. It's not reliable thorough coverage independent of the subject, which is what GNG requires.
To view the original URLs, click on "the original" from "Archived from the original". The WebCitation links are necessary in case the article is nominated for deletion again in the future and the sources become dead links.
A social networking website launched by a Bath company in January has introduced new features as it seeks to attract more users.
Natter.com is one of two social networking sites run from The Tramshed off Walcot Street. Natter is run by former banker Neil Stanley, while Whisbird is run by the team that is also behind the Xcetra brand agency.
Natter's aim is for people to make new friends around the globe by allowing them to converse via a webcam in a safe way. The only tools they need are an internet connection, a webcam and a genuine Facebook account.
Visitors to natter.com are asked to select the sort of person they are interested in meeting. Having found a Natter user, the two people can then talk, initially for just one minute. Once the minute's up, the users then decide whether they want to continue their chat, and can decide whether to add their new friend on Facebook.
At the end of every successful one-minute chat, both users receive a 'Natter point'. Collecting as many of these as possible benefits the Natter user in the future by indicating they are polite and friendly.
TWO entrepreneurs are following in the footsteps of Facebook creator Mark Zuckerberg after launching their own social networking site.
Phillip Harris, 25, and housemate Tom Fide, 25, are hoping their latest creation, Natter, will be the next big online phenomenon – giving people from Rhondda Cynon Taff a safe and exciting new place to find new friends.
Natter, which encourages “friendly and polite” webcam chatting, has been described by Mr Harris as “a form of online speed-dating” – a market untouched by the larger internet corporations.
It has the backing of CEO and co-founder, Neil Stanley (ex-Goldman Sachs and Lombard Odier).
The second Bath Chronicle article and the Western Mail article in particular provide substantial coverage about the company. Both the 2011 and 2014 articles mention company cofounder Neil Stanley so I am certain that this is the same company. The company remains a social media network though their product has changed from webcam chatting to a Twitter-like platform with three-word posts.
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Fails
WP:BLP1E - Prior to the Jezza incident he wasn't known at all and he'll probably be only known for this and that's it,
The incident is mentioned on both the
Jeremy Clarkson article and the
Top Gear article so no objections to Redirecting if wanted. –
Davey2010Talk15:01, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep while I understand the concern about BLP1E, he flys past
WP:GNG and the rest of the notability criteria, and has had extensive coverage in multiple news sources. I am still planning on expansion with past this to to fill it in past 1 event but I'm on mobile right now so I'm limited. EoRdE6(
Come Talk to Me!)15:14, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
No he's not. He doesn't pass WP:GNG on any of these. Simply being mentioned in the credits or working on the project does not establish notability. --
AussieLegend (
✉)
03:19, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - The reason I prodded this article is that
WP:BLP1E applies. Contrary to the claim in the first sentence of the article, the individual is not "best known for his role in producing
Top Gear (2002 TV series)". He is best known for being punched by
Jeremy Clarkson and it was only this incident that resulted in him being found to be a producer of Top Gear. Prior to this he was not listed as a producer of the series, this was only added to
Top Gear (2002 TV series) more than two weeks after Clarkson was suspended.
[15] In fact, had Tymon given Clarkson his steak, we'd probably still be blissfully ignorant of Tymon's involvement in the series. --
AussieLegend (
✉)
15:17, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment to those referring to
WP:BLP1E I will quote directly from there:
"We should generally avoid having an article on a person when each of three conditions is met:
If reliable sources cover the person only in the context of a single event. (Iffy on this point)
If that person otherwise remains, and is likely to remain, a low-profile individual. Biographies in these cases can give undue weight to the event and conflict with neutral point of view. In such cases, it is usually better to merge the information and redirect the person's name to the event article. (He could gain more coverage in the future, but I'm no
crystal ball)
If the event is not significant or the individual's role was either not substantial or not well documented.(The event is significant and has recieved excessive media coverage and he played a substantial well documented role in it)"
Point 3 of
WP:BLP1E goes on to say: "John Hinckley, Jr., for example, has a separate article because the single event he was associated with, the Reagan assassination attempt, was significant and his role was both substantial and well documented", this is an example of what is meant by a significant event in this context of BLP1E. BLP1E also states that "The significance of an event or individual is indicated by how persistent the coverage is in reliable sources." Given how recent this event is (it only became public knowledge on 10 March), the coverage of Tymon cannot be described as persistent.
January (
talk)
16:32, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Note: I have
expanded the article quite a bit, to include more notability displaying things like his past filmography. I have also added 5 times the references as before. Can I also site
WP:DONOTDEMOLISH in saying this article was nominated less than an hour after creation? EoRdE6(
Come Talk to Me!) 00:56, 29 March 2015 (UTC) I also want to point out I have added references to sources outside of the
Steakgate incident which reference his notability as the producer of Top Gear, much in the same way as
Andy Wilman.EoRdE6(
Come Talk to Me!)01:44, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
The number of references in the article is irrelevant. We only require BLPs to have at least one references and BLPs require strong references. Points in the article are supported by 2, 3 and 4 references, but that doesn't make the article any better, because they're all referencing the one incident. Basic information, like the birthdate, remain unreferenced and the recently added filmography is now referenced by IMDB, which is why I added {{BLP IMDB refimprove}}, which you've now removed. I'm sorry, but everything in the article is biographical, so that tag was entirely appropriate. Regarding
WP:DONOTDEMOLISH. the article was nominated for the obvious reason that the subject is notable only for one event and isn't going to pass
WP:GNG any time soon.
Davey2010's nomination was entirely appropriate. --
AussieLegend (
✉)
01:21, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Just a note to say that it's considered bad form to keep altering your posts after they've been replied to.
[16] Regarding that addition, Andy Wilman was notable prior to the recent incident, for many years in fact. His BAFTA awards establish his notability. The references you've been adding merely supplement the IMDB filmography. These don't establish notability on their own. --
AussieLegend (
✉)
02:15, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep While it is true that this is "an article on some non-notable bloke only becoming known due to the fact he got smacked by a celebrity", the events this occurance has precipitated are both ongoing and very relevant - for example, the death threats to the head of the BBC which are being reported as happening as a result of events surrounding the gentleman in question. People, do, indeed , have no idea who Oisin Tymon is, or what he has done in his proffesional career, or why he was in the position in which he found himself - and people will come to Wikipedia looking for these facts. SO - whatever any guidlines may say, the article serves a very obvious purpose, and should be kept. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
81.101.108.253 (
talk)
22:00, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Notability is not inherited. With the effects from this seemingly ever-expanding, the entire incident might possibly warrant a standalone article at some point, but Oisin Tymon would be a mere mention in that article. It still would not justify a standalone article for him. --
AussieLegend (
✉)
22:06, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
I agree we should basically have articles on stuff but there's just some things that just don't need an article and this is a fine example, Anyway agree with AussieLegend perhaps the incident may have an article but as for Oision.... well this is far as it goes...... –
Davey2010Talk22:37, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
KEEP even without the Clarkson incident he would have been notable for his large filmography background and the sources in that section. This incident just furthers his notability.
50.123.131.195 (
talk)
13:37, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Well, he wasn't notable and had no article before this event so I don't see how that claim is supportable. The world was only made aware of his existence because of the incident. A filmography (which is still partially sourced to IMDB only!) on its own does not establish notability. --
AussieLegend (
✉)
16:46, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment Wikipedia is not
IMDb. It does not list every person involved in the making of TV shows or films. There is no way that Oisin Tymon would be notable without being socked in the face because Jeremy Clarkson did not get a steak with fondant potatoes.--♦IanMacM♦(talk to me)15:52, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - I'd have thought anyone who's spent a reasonable amount of time on Wikipedia would realise that this article is pointless and not needed whatsoever. The introduction is effectively talking about an incident with Jeremy Clarkson with a bit of padding about producing Top Gear. Ignoring the 'fracas' a few weeks ago, would this article have ever been created had he produced Top Gear for the rest of his life? Not a chance. 100% in favour of deletion. Bestbaggiesfan✉01:50, 1 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete If his previous achievements didn't warrant an article, being sloshed round the chops certainly won't. Also oppose redirection.--Launchballer19:06, 2 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - Not notable enough to warrant own article, delete on the basis that any notable content from this page can be wholly integrated into either the Clarkson or TG articles.
Tegrenath (
talk)
23:43, 2 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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Delete -
Goncalowiki2000 (
Goncalowiki2000) 20:10 4 April 2015 (UTC)I know that, but I'm sure that will be deleted, but I will create
2015–16 Primeira Liga soon. But don't be very mad from me, I will put everything that I've put in this page after that. And 1 more thing, don't delete the page that I will create soon.
Here's the explanation,I know about that will be notable in the future, but I can't let the
2015–16 Primeira Liga been deleted too, it's because I had begun creating one of my first articles in Wikipedia. Sorry. But I certainly put on the teams save from the previous league so to be ready once it begins. Note: I will create that article in June. Does everyone agree?
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Was unsure to do the prod or xfd but went with this-non notable doctor from what I can tell-as a note there is a page linked to this name but a different person as it links to a sports page.
Wgolf (
talk)
14:24, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete Non-notable postdoctoral fellow. I took out the bit about his "professional striping" and considered that this might have been set up as a hoax or an attack page, but that's the only
WP:BLP issue I can see.
EricEnfermero (
Talk)
04:32, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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does not meet
WP:GNG, could meet no.5 of
WP:NBOOK if it exists but appears to be a
WP:HOAX, google search brings up nothing, ditto worldcat search and trove (OZ librarys) search. article refers to 'Fairy Tales translated by Tiina Nunnally (2005) does not contain it.[
[17]], complete list of Anderson's fairytales doesn't show it,[
[18]]
Coolabahapple (
talk)
12:06, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete – Definitely a hoax.
This is the list of Andersen's works published in 1837, and "Several Things" is nowhere to be found (nor in any other year). Amazing that the hoax lasted for more than five years! --
Danmuz (
talk)
14:14, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Several Things is a
book written by the
Danish fairy tale writer and fablist
Hans Christian Andersen. It was published in
1837, just after he completed
The Princess and the Pea. Several Things is a multifaceted work, dealing with a multitude of subjects, several of which are of interest to the public at large. It was not well received upon first publication. The critics had several issues with the work, including offense taken at its questionable content and long apocryphal sections dealing with apparently nothing at all.
The last sentence strongly indicates that this is a hoax.
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(disclaimer: only read the abstract) I stand by my "passerby" analysis in
that similar AfD, although here the asteroid is the sole subject of the scientific article. I do not think this constitutes "significant coverage" of the subject as per
WP:NASTCRIT #3, because obtaining a spectrum could be done (barring technical limitations) for any asteroid, and I see no evidence than this one in particular has different properties. Yes, the resulting spectrum is detailed information that is unknown for other asteroids, but it is not significant coverage. A passerby in the street could be interviewed by television to comment on political issues and his political views may be quite unique, a short interview would still not make him notable because it could have been done with any other passerby in the same format even if the results (political views expressed) would have been different.
Tigraan (
talk)
09:01, 2 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I disagree, scientific facts about asteroids are important. Also,
WP:Notability_(astronomical_objects)#Dealing_with_minor_planets recommends redirection rather than deletion. There's also a lot of infobox data in the article that should be kept somewhere. And the WP:Astro project should be notified of AfDs such as this. Their practice has been to keep all low-numbered asteroid articles. --
120.17.55.175 (
talk)
23:21, 2 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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Comment. This article is about both a book and the film based on the book, both of them by the notable Israeli director
Yaky Yosha. The film seems to have had several different English titles, including not only Still Walking (which is also the English title of a 2008 Japanese film) but also just plain Walking, which of course is even harder to search. IMDb uses the transliterated Hebrew title "Od ani holeh"; the last word is spelled "holekh" in a few sources. The article includes a link to a review of the film in Haaretz, but that review is no longer on line
[19]; for what it's worth, that review does show up in the results of a Google search of the Hebrew names for the film and director <"עוד אני הולך" "יקי יושע">. I didn't immediately see other clearly RS reviews in the Hebrew search, but I hope someone with better Hebrew will take a look. --
Arxiloxos (
talk)
15:18, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment - Just an observation: It does seem to have an amazingly low hit-count (8 hits in 90 days) and no editors seem be actively working on it.
HullIntegrity\
talk /15:03, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Delete-Not notable, I thought this was a different game at first when I saw the deletion (don't know which I was thinking of) and was going to say keep but this is not it.
Wgolf (
talk)
19:25, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment: Has been covered by Tech In Asia.
[20] Not sure if it counts as a reliable source. Also covered by plenty of Thai gaming news blogs, which probably don't count.
[21][22][23] (Pinging
Czar per above request.) --
Paul_012 (
talk)
17:19, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Tech in Asia's editorial policy says that
every article is run past an editor, though they also want to break stories
within minutes, so it's unclear what degree of oversight is had. I'd say it's gray in the
reliability department, but I'm leaning towards okay since their work is cited by their video game reporting peers. The rest are more clear-cut: compgamer
appears to have a print presence but I can't find mention of it in English video game reliable sources, coregamerth
appears amateur, and Juropy
doesn't have an editorial policy. I still don't see enough to qualify a dedicated article for this topic. czar⨹08:50, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Delete, no 3rd party reference, just an official website and three lists of unclear unsorted items allegedly related to the subject in some undefined way. –
Be..anyone (
talk)
15:52, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - software article of unclear notability, lacking significant coverage in reliable sources. Refs provided are company sites, not
WP:RS, and a search turned up no significant independent coverage. Article was created by an
SPA as possibly promotional.
Dialectric (
talk)
01:17, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Last AfD was 1 delete, 2 merge to
Royal Geographical Society#History and 2 keep, so overall no consensus. I hope that after new references have been added, and after not attracting a large number of comments last time, we can establish consensus now, especially as this has been left with a notability tag since
Alynna Kasmira added it 7 years ago. I couldn't establish that it meets
WP:ORG or
WP:GNGBoleyn (
talk)
11:22, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Redirect to the history section of
Royal Geographical Society, where it can be a sourced sentence, I looked at the previous AFD, and one editor objected on the grounds that this Association predates the Royal Geographical. I see that as no hindrance to merge, many fading institutions merge into thriving institutions that postdate them. This article contains a real tidbit, that soneone who stubbles upon the Association might want to look up, making the redirect useful.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
17:29, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep as the article with Oncenawhile's additions make it perfectly fine and useful by itself. Regarding the RGS, I believe that the current wording "the Palestine Association was integrated into the Royal Geographical Society" is factually incorrect, which I will argue on the talk page.
Zerotalk23:49, 1 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep - As in the previous AfD I see no valid reasons to delete it. Acceptable sources exist proving it existed. Obscurity is not a reason to delete. And as I said in the first AfD, because its existence PREDATES the founding of the Royal Geographical Society, any content related to its activities would be off-topic for the Royal Geographical Society article and so a merge with it would be unsuitable.
Tiptoethrutheminefield (
talk)
02:47, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep even if it was in some manner iterated or brought under the RGS umbrella, it was sufficiently distinct and important under its own name. DGG (
talk )
03:38, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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Prodded by
Aerospeed, but has previously been to AfD. 2 AfDs have ended in no consensus, in large part because of a lack of comments. For this reason, it's sat with a notability tag on it for 7 years. Hopefully this time enough people can analyse it for us to get a resolution. If not, I think if there's been no consensus to delete at a third AfD, we should remove the notability tag.
Boleyn (
talk)
11:07, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - Thank you
Boleyn for nominating these articles I didn't feel confident in nominating myself. I PRODed this article due to notability and promotional issues. The notability issue is easier to prove, as the article has only one source, that of its own website. All other sources I've found so far clearly show the product exists, but not showing why it's notable. I found
this article that does a good job describing the article, so this might be somewhat notable. The majority of the article is promotional, however, considering that there are phrases such as "The main advantage of Optimus mini three..." and "they do give an accurate look at the final design." Only the first paragraph is sourced, and it only gives info on when the product was released and what it is used for. The rest is promotional and unsourced. Overall, this looks more and more like a promotional article, and should be deleted. Aerospeed (
Talk)
11:27, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Withdrawn by nominator: No consensus can likely be reached while this remains in the news. Bringing it up when we move to the inevitable next circle of tragedy may be better.
'''tAD''' (
talk)
15:30, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Strong keep As per WP:Oneevent, when a significant event occurs, and someone is a significant participant in that event, a separate article is usually appropriate. That is certainly the case here. Other cases:
Timothy McVeigh,
Anders Behring Breivik and
Christa McAuliffe, all known for single events. I strong !vote to keep this article, and lets let it develop.
Juneau Mike (
talk)
10:40, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
From what I see on the accident's page, it is not officially confirmed that he did this, or that he did it deliberately. Could be a case of waiting
'''tAD''' (
talk)
11:08, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep per above. Hopefully once all these tags have gone cluttering the page we can actually get down to the task of improving the article.
Ulcerspar12 (
talk)
11:07, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep: subject of massive media attention, clearly meets the notability criteria.
WP:ONEEVENT has an explicit exception for just this type of case: "If the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, a separate article is generally appropriate." What makes this event particularly significant is the relationship of pilot mental health to air safety, and the details of his health and personality are highly relevant to the matter. --
Impsswoon (
talk)
11:10, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Note: Well, we are just learning about Lubitz. Current consensus among relevant law enforcement is that he committed this act. If the original "newpage" template had been adhered to, additional notability would have been established. But another editor jumped the gun and began an AfD before that new page process had even played out for a few hours. In reference to your comment, it is clear there would be neither a McVeigh page here, nor a Breivik page, had they not committed acts of terrorism.
Juneau Mike (
talk)
11:52, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
The tag refers to the quality of the article, not general notability. If I were deleting it for its formatting, voice etc., I would be jumping the gun.
'''tAD''' (
talk)
12:43, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
With sincere credit given to your very prolific and good faith edits here on Wikipedia, which are well established, where you jumped the gun was starting an AfD discussion on a brand new article that for less than 3 hours had included the "newpage" template. A mere 12 or 24 hours of good faith editing by multiple editors would have established this pages position and related rankings as notable. You starting an AfD on an article still in the new page process seemed very hasty. I say all of this with respect, as you are fantastic editor. Despite our one disagreement here, I respect you and your contributions greatly.
Juneau Mike (
talk)
13:50, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep - As sources begin to characterize him as a mass murderer
[24],
[25], the subject is in the McVeigh realm. Just let the article stand now, otherwise we'll just be back here in 2-3 weeks, there's no sense in maintaining bureaucracy for the sake of the bureaucracy.
Tarc (
talk)
12:50, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Merge for now. Maybe we'll learn more about him in the coming weeks that warrants a longer, more complete article. But now, this article shows that he is famous for just one thing as it is. McVeigh and Breivik had trials, Lubitz the SilkAir Pilot, the EgyptAir pilot, and other examples died right when they did their deed. We haven't determined that his story is more "worthy" of an article than the others.
SOXROX (
talk)
13:08, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep as Lubitz now appears to be a notable mass-murderer. There is already much personal media coverage that goes well beyond the scope of this one massive event. Reports suggest that the consequences of his alleged mental condition and actions as a result, will change world-wide airline screening of pilots and policy regarding cabin-crew in the aircraft cockpit.
Fg63 (
talk)
13:34, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep for now. While it may emerge that all relevant details of this man are included on the accident page and then we can have this discussion, it was absolutely a bad faith edit for the nominating editor to blatantly ignore the good faith "newpage" template.
Prhartcom (
talk)
14:04, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep per arguments given by
Juneau Mike. There is also a need for the public to know the reasons as to what caused Lubitz to take such action, so as to enhance ways to improve a person's mental health. -
Mardus (
talk)
14:58, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Snow keep We will never have consensus here, or possibly any time in the next 4 weeks. I wish I had studied the rules a bit better before nominating this.
'''tAD''' (
talk)
15:00, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Another note It is always very nice to see editors I respect, but have a good faith disagreement with, make a comment such as yours above. Yes, I have been deeply involved in this debate. But in the meantime, I stayed involved, actually starting the article
Anchorage Fire Department, also in the newpage phase, while all of this was going on. My point is, don't take any of this personally. We all want to make Wikipedia a better place. And we are. You are a fantastic editor. I personally despise the notability policy, but I cherish consensus. We all want a great Wikipedia!
Juneau Mike (
talk)
15:15, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep significant person whose actions have turned the spotlight onto the issue of mental health of pilots. it is leading to significant debate on the issue and changes in pollicy.
[26]--
Wikireader41 (
talk)
15:04, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep.
User:ed_g2s is wrong on two counts: First, as per
WP:OSE and
WP:INN, "non-inclusion is not an indication of non-notability. [...] To suggest that a particular article is non-notable because no other similar articles exist would stunt the growth of Wikipedia, and do more harm than good", and second, the purported perpetrator in the
EgyptAir Flight 990 case,
Gameel Al-Batouti, does have his own article.
User:Smooth0707's personal opinion about glorifying perpetrators is irrelevant to the discussion. The question to be decided is whether current policy mandates the retention or deletion of the article. The policy,
WP:1E, sounds pretty unambiguous to me on this question: "If the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, a separate article is generally appropriate. The assassins of major political leaders, such as Gavrilo Princip, fit into this category, as indicated by the large coverage of the event in reliable sources that devotes significant attention to the individual's role." In all media that I follow, the character, history, mental state, health problems, social relations etc. of Andreas Lubitz are currently the top item being reported on, far exceeding other aspects of the crash. I don't see how following this policy could lead to anything other than keeping the article.
Joriki (
talk)
15:13, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete. The problem is not the block quotes (well, it shouldn't be--anyone who thinks that that is a reason for deletion needs to stay away from AfD), but the lack of reliable secondary sources, as is pointed out by the nominator and others. It is possible that this is potentially a highly notable topic, but the article (in writing and referencing) is so poor that it's not possible to state this with confidence.
Drmies (
talk)
02:56, 5 April 2015 (UTC)reply
This article should be deleted for the following reasons:
The vast majority of the article is block quotes that fall under 2 areas: The 1st block quote area is that of Sunni scholars reproducing the hadiths contents. This is block quoting primary information, but presenting it as the words of these scholars (which it isn't) to deceptively give the impression that this issue is worthy of being an article because notable scholars quote it. These scholars have only quoted it (as numerous scholars will quote any single hadith regularly), rather than mention it any further and the fact that they don't actually discuss their interpretation of the hadith is evidence that it lacks notability. By the standard set by this wiki article, we can expect many thousands of hadiths to have their own articles because many scholars have quoted single hadiths. The 2nd block quote area is a single shia scholar named Husain Mohammad Jafri. In fact, his quotes make up the majority of the article and it is easy to see that this articles creation was driven by a sectarian propaganda agenda.
One of the references is Answering-Ansar.org, which is clearly a shia sectarian site, whose scholarly credentials (hence eligibility to be cited on wiki) are questionable. This again supports the suspicion that this articles creation was driven by a sectarian propaganda agenda.
The articles lack of notability seems to have been unwittingly alluded to by the editor/s with the words "Although the narration is prominently quoted and referred to, it is not given any formal name, in contrast to other hadith such as the Hadith of the pond of Khumm or the Hadith of Qur'an and Sunnah." But what the editor's won’t admit is that this hadith has no name exactly because it isn't historically notable to begin with. Hence, it was left to the editor/s to give us a name for this notable hadith...how fitting! Shia are obviously, for sectarian purposes, opposed to every succession of Muhammad that precluded the appointment of Ali; however, their position is well covered in numerous other wiki articles that have the requisite notability – unlike this obscure hadith.
Apart from block quoting the actual text of the hadith and the opinions of 1 shia scholar, the article makes mention of no other opinions on the hadith, whether Western, Sunni, or any other scholarly opinions. This simply adds to the lack of notability of the article.
Strangely, we are not even told where the source of this hadith even comes from i.e. which hadith collection, such as Sahih Muslim, Sahih Bukhari etc. So if we are not told of the hadith source then we can't even determine whether this hadith is authentic or fabricated. If it is fabricated then creating a wiki article about it would probably be unwarranted without specifying its authenticity, since this can fool people by giving them the impression that it must be automatically authentic because it is accepted on wikipedia.
It can be seen under the Contested deletion section of the articles talk page that any suggestions that the article can be improved have not materialised. I believe this has not happened simply because the ability to improve this article is not possible due to its lack of noteworthiness.
Due to these reasons, i believe that this article should be deleted as an ill-attempted piece of sectarian propaganda, that when narrowed down contains nothing more than the quoted hadith and one scholars opinion of it.
58.106.235.75 (
talk)
09:31, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment I lack any knowledge whatsoever of islamic texts, so I will refrain from !voting. However, I would note that if this thing is prominent in Shi'ite sources and disregarded / not even mentioned in Sunnit sources, it is not ground for deletion under
WP:NPOV (
Jesus is, according to most Christians, the son of god, and it is not POV to discuss it at length, although other religions disagree).
The way the nomination is written leads me to think that nominator has an axe to grind against that branch of islam; it does not mean their points are invalid, though.
Tigraan (
talk)
10:31, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
@
Tigraan: Needing to resort to massive block-quoting of 1 shiite scholar does not count as "prominent in Shi'ite sources". Also your analogy of Christians and their view of Jesus isn't accurate with shiites and their views of a Sunni hadith (if that hadith is even authentic - which hasn't even been proven, or mentioned). What would be a more accurate analogy would be how Catholics would view an alleged Oriental Orthodox historical episode. But i respect your otherwise balanced approach.--
58.106.235.75 (
talk)
13:42, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose Article subject is very important as it deals with succession of Holy Prophet(ص). This is one of the defining events/reasons/theories behind the classical Shia-Sunni split. What I see from article is that it list at least 10 references which for its length is not bad. Yes, it has block-quotes but IMHO opinion it is better than POV/OR. Maximum what can be done is that article is tagged for expansion/rewrite having good lead section summarizing event-cause-effects but it should noway be deleted. And at last, to me the AFD request seems to highly POV push aiming at suppression of minority/alternate viewpoint.--
121.244.54.32 (
talk)
08:54, 30 March 2015 (UTC)reply
As i have shown in my arguments, there has been ample time and opportunity to expand the article with the relevant info that is needed to stave off the articles deletion; however, this has never been met. And in my defense: the only suppression that is being sought is that of content that is far below the standards of Wikipedia. My arguments are detailed and clear and in no way evade what is required of an AfD nomination.
58.106.235.75 (
talk)
13:53, 30 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete All of the content are just combination of primary sources. The subject is not notable enough to have material from secondary sources, if you can add something, it's OR or primary. succession of Umar or Uthman are far more notable and controversial :)Ladsgroupoverleg12:31, 30 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep I have no personal view on the relative merits of the various schools of Islam, but the advocates of each have over many centuries attacked whatever supports the others, and I think this might possibly be the case here. I am not qualified to discuss the various sources on authenticity of particular hadith, but , as in all cases of religious controversy, I think we need as broad an approaches possible. Something is not un-notable because you disagree with it. DGG (
talk )
19:42, 30 March 2015 (UTC)reply
@
DGG: First of all, when you want to add your opinion please show the common courtesy of adding your comment at the bottom of the page and especially not in between an editors comments - which i have now rectified. Wikipedia isn't an arena for prima donnas. Secondly, if you really read my reasons for deletion you will find that i have clearly not argued that it is un-notable because i "disagree with it."--
58.106.235.75 (
talk)
00:04, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep per DGG. Regardless of the truth of the matter, such issues are important to many millions of Muslims, and so there appears to be sufficient notoriety to make it notable.
Bearian (
talk)
21:47, 30 March 2015 (UTC)reply
@
Bearian: I don't see that as being strong reasoning. You made no defense of the fact that the article is only made up of primary sources and 1 shiites quote. That doesn't scream notability and proves that it isn't really that "important to many millions of Muslims." Just because we are told something is important by some random person, doesn't mean it actually is. I would have expected more sound reasoning from someone of your level of education.--
58.106.235.75 (
talk)
23:53, 30 March 2015 (UTC)reply
@
Bearian: For someone who has studied in law you seem strangely unable to grasp the meaning of very clear arguments. This has nothing to do with "knowledge of sharia and hadith" (where did i ever tell you that!) and everything to do with wiki policy regarding notability.--
58.106.235.75 (
talk)
00:08, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Could you please calm down a little? Even if you are not aware of it, you sound extremely aggressive.
And yes, the issue has something to do with knowledge of islamic texts. A layman such as myself will have no idea what and who is a reputable source, and what level of sourcing can be expected. A seemingly reasonably-made website or publication could be widely disregarded as junk theology by everyone in Egypt or Iran, and I would not know it.
Tigraan (
talk)
08:56, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
@
Tigraan: If responding to peoples comments by highlighting the real issue is considered "extremely aggressive" then people have really become too soft and sensitive. Again, you talk about "knowledge of islamic texts" when the real issue here is notability. Quoting the primary source under numerous scholars (to give the illusion of notability) and adding 1 shiites views on this primary source doesn't count as notable. This article should really be a sentence or paragraph in the Abu Bakr article in the section of his succession—not a lone article.--
58.106.235.75 (
talk)
10:07, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
" I would have expected more sound reasoning from someone of your level of education", "Wikipedia isn't an arena for prima donnas", "For someone who has studied in law you seem strangely unable to grasp the meaning of very clear arguments" are all sentences that could be taken off your comments without damaging the arguments. Did you really need them?
Again, knowledge is required to assess notability. If the aforementioned "numerous scholars" are the most prominent shi'ite theologians, their voice makes the text they discuss notable, just as well as a scientific theory is notable if all major scientists in the field start to discuss it. On the other hand, those scholars could be a bunch of nobodies that operate on youtube and to whom none listens; then,
WP:FRINGE would clearly apply if the topic at hand was scientific. Deciding whether it is notable needs to assess the sources, and assessing the sources needs some moderate knowledge of the topic, which I lack.
Tigraan (
talk)
11:07, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
@
Tigraan: If you paid the slightest attention to my arguments it is quite clear the scholars i am referring to are Sunni. I don't know where you got the impression i was referring to shiites. To give you an analogy of my argument that many scholars simply quoting a primary source doesn't equate to the level of notability to warrant a separate wiki article: If i give you a handful of Protestant scholars that simply quote 1 paragraph from 1 of Martin Luther's books then i add 1 quote of a Catholic scholar who discusses that 1 Martin Luther quote, does that make that quote notable enough for me to then give it a name and create a wiki article for it? If so, then i will surely be a busy person for quite some time, seeing what innumerable articles i will create for wiki. Maybe i will find a shia hadith that is quoted several times by shia (say let's call it "hadith of the corruption of the Quran) then i will add 1 Sunni scholar who has talked extensively about it...and magic, we will have 1 more article for wiki.--
58.106.235.75 (
talk)
13:09, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete The issue can be covered in other articles with more contextualizing. The large block quotes in this article are not the method of Wikipedia, and it looks unlikely that we could cover this topic with non-quoted text.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
03:41, 1 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I think that
this section of the Abu Bakr article and
this section of the Umar article more than amply cover for the succession issue (as its notability deserves). The event of succession may have some notability (though i don't believe it has the level to have its own article, just like we don't have articles for most contentious successions), however, the hadith does not have this requisite notability.--
58.106.236.196 (
talk)
00:59, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete Not encyclopedic. We don't have articles about the genealogy of
Mary filled entirely with block quotes from the
Protevangelium of James, roughly the equivalent of this page.
Dawah is not appropriate on Wikipedia.
E.M.Gregory (
talk) 10:15, 1 April 2015 (
""Delete"" Too much reliance on block quotes needs better independent secondary sources possible to improve but not sufficient secondary independent sources
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GNG supercedes any SSG WP:NBASKETBALL is secondary to the general notability guideline and if he met the sport-specific guideline but didn't meet GNG it could still be deleted.
Rikster2 (
talk)
23:33, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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This article came up at
WP:COIN, and appeared to be a promotion for a movie in development. The only sources are sites affiliated with the movie. The people mentioned on those sites as being involved with some murder cult don't come up in Google searches. There are no relevant news items. There's nothing in reliable sources. Or even semi-reliable sources. Something that newsworthy which happened in 2011 would have news coverage. Looks like
WP:HOAX and
WP:AD. Thanks.
John Nagle (
talk)
07:45, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Speedy delete as hoax (
WP:G3): if, as the article claims, some of those people were convinced of a crime in 2011, surely it would be easy to find a link to the judgement. The absence of such sources constitutes in my opinion "blatant and obvious disinformation". As people may disagree with this
argument from silence, I did not put the Speedy deletion tag myself.
Tigraan (
talk)
10:47, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete as a hoax and a gross misuse of Wikipedia. Adverting for a supposed mockumentary film. Source even explains lack of coverage by reliable sources. No reliable evidence found that the film or the event is real.
• Gene93k (
talk)
17:37, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete. regardless of the irrelevant delete !vote of the apparent SPA, there actually is no evidence of notability . Not yet notable. DGG (
talk )
03:26, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete. This article has a weird history.
Created with quite a bit more content, much of which was later removed, mostly by IPs -
these edits particularly noticeable, as they remove the Allozyne connection, which the same IP
also removed from the Allozyne article. Edit summaries indicate removing inaccurate information, yet it's clear from trivial googling that she was a founder and hard to conceive of that statement as a BLP issue. Don't know what's going on there, but in any case being a cofounder of a smallish biotech that just got sold off for scrap doesn't really clear the notability bar.
Opabinia regalis (
talk)
18:39, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete. The sole source mentions the subject only trivially, and doesn't give evidence for notability. As O.r. states, the past history of the article also does not show notability. —
David Eppstein (
talk)
18:45, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Note: This newly registered account has left the very similar deletion rationales (almost every one a "strong delete") on dozens of AfDs in rapid fashion. Likely he did not read any of the articles (one he said fails "BLP" was a company, for example). --
ThaddeusB (
talk)
15:44, 2 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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Keep This is not dictionary content; it's weights and measures, which is the stuff of an
almanac. It's not clear why the nomination raises
WP:V as all content is sourced; did the nominator not perform any checks himself? And merger isn't deletion - see
WP:SK and
WP:NOTCLEANUP.
Andrew D. (
talk)
07:22, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep: this has been totally rewritten since its pathetic beginnings as one of the Cardarelli follies (he no longer even gets a mention), and is now just about article-worthy. I've added OED's take on the word, and added it to
Bag (disambiguation) and as a "See also" to
Bag.
PamD11:57, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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The result was keep, relative to
WP:ANYBIO, per awards the subject has received, which also demonstrate that the subject has "made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in his or her specific field". It is arguable that the sources presented in the first AfD discussion and herein do not comprise significant coverage about the subject, except for one. For example, two have almost identical content, are quite short and are basically "about the author" texts written by the publisher (
[28],
[29], two only have passing mentions (
[30],
[31]),
this only has a passing mention, and one has significant coverage (
[32]). Overall, it's arguable that the subject may not qualify per
WP:BASIC alone. Additionally, it's possible that the subject may qualify per
WP:AUTHOR, criteria #1, but this potential was only touched upon herein with the link to Worldcat that shows books the subject has authored or co-authored, and would require further qualification to be proven.
Furthermore, the !voting spree by User:Dormantos was done in a rapid fashion (see
User contributions in Wikipedia namespace). It's possible that they're a fast reader, but it's also possible that they didn't read the article or check for sources. Also, there is some evidence of copy/paste !votes performed by this user without article/source consideration, such as at
this AfD discussion. North America100011:29, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Non-notable. This page has "references" but they are just links to Google Books search results where the subject's name turns up in the book once. These, and links to the subject's own books, are the bulk of search results. It's unlikely that references could be found to make this subject meet notability criteria.
Fisheriesmgmt (
talk)
03:31, 13 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep - I agree with Michig, nothing has changed. However if kept, the article needs c/e, correct sourcing and improvements overall. But that in itself is not a reason for deletion. --
BabbaQ (
talk)
20:32, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Note: This newly registered account has left the very similar deletion rationales (every one a "strong delete") on dozens of AfDs in rapid fashion. Likely he did not read any of the articles (one he said fails "BLP" was a company, for example). --
ThaddeusB (
talk)
15:33, 2 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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I'm not sure this is even real. It's completely unclear whether this is trying to describe a single campus containing a group of schools at various levels, or one particular school within a group. Undocumentable: the website is the only source, and well worth looking at
[33], for it contains no usable information whatsoever. Check in particular the "Instructors" page
[34]: it consists of photos of 4 different people all with the same name, and all described as "Lorem Ipsum is simply dummy text of the printing and typesetting" DGG (
talk )
04:26, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
You are unfair, it is the "instuctors" page, and it shows a polymorph "chamistry" teacher. Well, the website is obviously in construction with stock photos and such.
Now for the serious stuff: "huge" internet presence (linkedins and such) but no evidence at all of physical presence. Hence, straightforward delete unless sources are found (I would not say "better sources" in that case).
Tigraan (
talk)
10:54, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - what do they think Wikipedia is, that they expect us to publish an article about an institution which cannot even sort out a website or spell "instructor"? At least it has given me a smile, and I now know where to apply when I want a degree in Lorem ipsum. But, to be clear, even if the website were all glossy and finished and plausible-looking, we should not consider an article until there are references showing
significant coverage in reliable, independent secondary sources, and I don't see any.
JohnCD (
talk)
20:39, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment: as I expected, a Tineye search finds that the pictures of the happy smiling students and the "instuctors" are stock images such as
this and
this.
JohnCD (
talk)
08:51, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete -- This clearly fails the sourcing and significant coverage requirements for
WP:ORG. And an alleged 30-year-old academic institution (or "one of India's leading group of institutions.") with an unfinished website and a Wikipedia editor with the same name as the school founder creates a lot of doubt. —
CactusWriter (talk)16:45, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment I received on my talk page:
sir/madam the work in website is going on and it will be finished as soon as possible, then all the images of various schools will be uploaded. I request you sir to kindly wait for some time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sagarsachan12 (talk • contribs) 18:00, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
@
Sagarsachan12: I brought it here because that is were the discussion about the article deletion should be. I am not impressed, since even if the website was perfect and had a higher
Alexa rank than Wikipedia itself, there still would not be any evidence out there that the Chitra group of Institutions is notable or even exists. (The website could pass, but that's another subject.)
Tigraan (
talk)
21:32, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Keep. I fully understand why the article has been nominated for deletion, as it certainly did not appear to satisfy GTG in its previous shape. However, I am afraid the rationale for deletion seems rather superficial to me. Being "rather standard" is a subjective statement and certainly not a valid reason to delete provided that independent and reliable sources exist, and this avenue has been covered by numerous articles on the Turkish Cypriot national press, some of which I have already added and some that I will be adding shortly. Of course, one could say that as Northern Cyprus is a small country, and any avenue in the capital would be bound to have some coverage on the press, but the amount of publicity and discussion centered around this one certainly exceeds any of the others by far (for example, Girne Avenue, which is the main street of the walled city) and meets the relevant criteria, while other avenues are only subjects of brief announcements. While of course, when compared to major cities, the avenue would seem standard and even dull, the definition of "standard" varies according to the location; it is the heart of the modern part of the capital of a nation, and it is certainly not "standard" in that sense. --
GGT (
talk)
16:19, 12 March 2015 (UTC)reply
More sources have been found and added to the article. By now, it must be clear that there are indeed a good number of articles in the Turkish Cypriot press beyond daily municipal announcements about the avenue, and that it does satisfy the GTG criteria due to the existence of multiple, reliable, independent sources with either the avenue being the main topic or receiving significant coverage. --
GGT (
talk)
20:59, 12 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep per sources provided, I'm not entirely sure whether we need an article on what seems to be essentially a High Street but meh sources have been added so can't really see the harm in keeping. –
Davey2010Talk23:45, 13 March 2015 (UTC)reply
I have considered a possible merger to quarter articles, but the current material included would probably be too much for them, and it has room for more development. There seem to be many other
precedents anyway. --
GGT (
talk)
14:10, 14 March 2015 (UTC)reply
@
The Banner: Sure thing, but could you please specify/exemplify your concerns, by, for example, giving a sample sentence from the article? I have played a little with the ambiguous tone in the intro but I fail to see what more could be done. I also fail to see how neutrality in style and tone relates to notability (GNG) and the AfD, but I truly appreciate the time spent for critical input. --
GGT (
talk)
14:46, 14 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Indeed, I still fail to see anything. If it the phrase "center of entertainment" that sounds dubious, that is generally common in sources. Beyond that, I truly see nothing that would constitute a neutrality problem. And anyway, if there is such a problem, IMHO it would be more constructive to talk about it on the talk page with precise arguments and if necessary, tag the article, as stylistic problems are no grounds for deletion. --
GGT (
talk)
20:25, 14 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Further information regarding history from a reliable book about Nicosia has been added to the article. The source talks in depth about the avenue in the 1950s. --
GGT (
talk)
17:24, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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• The person has created, or played a major role in co-creating, a significant or well-known work, or collective body of work. In addition, such work must have been the subject of an independent book or feature-length film, or of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews.
I have no opinion on this article or its success/failure in meeting Wikipedia inclusion guidelines, but think that inclusion in the NLA catalogue is not a claim for notability. As the national library, a copy of every work published in Australia is legally required to be submitted to the NLA (see
Legal deposit). --
saberwyn05:09, 14 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak Delete per
WP:ONEEVENT. The stories in the Independent and Daily Mail are primarily about her and satisfy our reliable sources guideline (okay, the Daily Mail only just), but they're both essentially about the one topic. Agree with
User:Saberwyn above that merely being included in the NLA catalogue is not an indicator of any notability as self-publishing a pamphlet will essentially get you there.
Lankiveil(
speak to me)11:28, 30 March 2015 (UTC).reply
keep leaving aside the irony in the fact that this self-absorbed Aussie first came to wide attention by writing a book (I added some of the press, profiles that the book - Published by Random House - generated to the page) about how she quit the rat race because wanted to leave career ambition behind, then further furthered her ambitious career by wrote another another that also garnered attention
[35], and now appears ot be so determined ot leave ambition behind that she has written her own Wikipedia page. As I said, leaving all that behind, it does appear that she has garnered sufficient attention with her job-quitting and books to pass
WP:GNG - with articles in the British, New Zealand, and Canadian as well as Australian press, moreover she keeps herself in the public eye by being a columnist.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
15:32, 30 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Hello Wikicology, thanks for your feedback on the article about CliSAP. I understood that the relevance of this research association hasn't been stated and proved clear enough. Sorry for that. I tried to make it more visible by reorganizing the sources. In general, I can imagine that outside Germany a research joint venture on climate change does not seem to be a big deal. But in fact, the excellence initiative of the German Government has been investing a lot of money since the research funding project startet in 2005. As a result of a nation-wide competition there are Grad Schools, Universities as a whole for realizing innovative future concepts and Clusters of Excellence funded. Altogether 4.6 billion Euros are spent. To me, this looks relevant. What do you think? Every chosen project has already proved to be relevant in that context. As it is all about research within international networks, and the language of research is English, I definately do see the relevance in having an article about CliSAP in the English-speaking WP. Another thing I'd like to point out is that climate change is a key challenge of humanity and that information about research being done on that topic should be present in the web, and especially here. I would be happy to continue the discussion here. And I am grateful for help in improving the article.
KlimaCampus (
talk)
14:47, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete per
WP:ORG, which I read as meaning that an article about climate change in the main press that includes ", scientist XXX from Clisap said", such as
this one, is not enough at all. I could find no independant sources (ie, that are not publishing a press release).
Tigraan (
talk)
10:56, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep Major interuniversity center of several major German institutions. I'm included to treat this in a separate article, since theres n single place to merge to. DGG (
talk )
03:21, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
The third-to-last source provides nontrivial coverage of the subject (based on searching for "CliSAP"). I am not sure about the depth of coverage in the last two sources because I cannot read the language.
Per DGG, since this is a major university center of several major German institutions and there is no single place to merge, I'd prefer keeping the article over deletion.
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While Boston is certainly large and prominent enough a city that its city councillors would satisfy
WP:NPOL #3 if they were substantive and properly sourced, city council is not a level of office that confers an entitlement to keep an article that's this badly sourced and contains no real substance beyond an acknowledgement of his existence — it's a level of government where the substance and quality of sourcing constitutes the difference between a keep and a delete. Delete, without prejudice against recreation in the future if it can be written and sourced properly.
Bearcat (
talk)
23:00, 23 March 2015 (UTC)reply
"Linehan's name game". The Boston Globe. November 22, 2014.
Irons, Meghan E. and Ryan, Andrew. "Council head now says raise can wait: Before expected vote, Linehan cites ethics panel advice". The Boston Globe. October 7, 2014.
Ryan, Andrew. "Linehan proposes 29% raise for City Council". The Boston Globe. September 16, 2014.
"Linehan stirs up resentments with proposal to honor Bulger". The Boston Globe. August 15, 2014.
Baker, Billy. "Linehan to skip St. Patrick's parade: City Council leader invited to Ireland". The Boston Globe. February 13, 2014.
Irons, Meghan E. "Linehan elected council president". The Boston Globe. January 7, 2014.
Irons, Meghan E. "Linehan poised to take council reins: Appears to have secured backers". The Boston Globe. December 10, 2013.
Irons, Meghan E. "Linehan, Lee: The rematch: Incumbent city councilor talks up his accomplishments as a 'persistent' rival aims to finish what she began 2 years ago". The Boston Globe. October 24, 2013.
Irons, Meghan E. "Councilor Bill Linehan pulls out of District 2 debate". The Boston Globe. October 24, 2013.
Ryan, Andrew. "Song in back pocket, Linehan steps up: Councilor warily prepares for a St. Patrick's Day tradition in Boston". The Boston Globe. March 16, 2013.
Cassidy, Chris. "Linehan sings praises for St. Pat's Day fest". McClatchy - Tribune Business News . February 17, 2013.
Irons, Meghan E. "Linehan stands by his council redistricting plan". The Boston Globe. November 29, 2011.
MacQuarrie, Brian. "Linehan keeps District 2 seat in recount: But councilor's redistricting plan draws fire". The Boston Globe. November 24, 2011.
Wedge, Dave. "Bill Linehan, recount behind him, vows more focus on schools". McClatchy - Tribune Business News . November 24, 2011.
Ryan, Andrew. "Linehan is facing his first challenge". The Boston Globe. September 26, 2011.
Van Sack, Jessica. "Southie reigns supreme ; Linehan captures Kelly seat". Boston Herald. May 16, 2007.
Slack, Donovan. "Passoni, Linehan reshift focus - Begin groundwork for council seat". The Boston Globe. April 19, 2007.
Slack, Donovan. "Passoni, Linehan top race for council". The Boston Globe. April 18, 2007.
Johnson, O'Ryan. "Passoni, Linehan to battle for council seat". Boston Herald. April 18, 2007.
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Sourced exclusively to her radio show, a blog connected with that radio show and a Twitter account connected with the radio show. The only one that even works is the Twitter link.
Greykit (
talk)
14:51, 12 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Delete Fails
WP:SIGCOV. I'm not finding coverage of any kind beyond YouTube videos uploaded by the show's host. All existing sources in article link to show's dead website. Levdr1lp /
talk11:59, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Redirect to
Today FM, which broadcasted the show (with the history preserved under the redirect) in lieu of deletion. I was unable to find coverage about the subject. But the history should be preserved under a redirect to
Today FM so any useful content can be merged to
Today FM.
No prejudice to undoing the redirect if editors find significant coverage about The Eamon Lowe Show in the future.
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Keep Admittedly the film did not reach broad distribution. It will not qualify as
WP:NFILM. Because this is pseudo political in nature, it did receive coverage amongst the various special interest elements that are portions of its subject matter. There are currently 20 sources, many through the communication media of these special interest groups. While most are not mainstream media, they show significant discussion of the film to establish
WP:GNG.
Trackinfo (
talk)
17:46, 12 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment: most of the current sources appear unreliable or based upon press releases, but IF the any of the reviews or commentary listed
HERE can be found and offered as citations, I'd suggest a weak keep. Schmidt, Michael Q.05:44, 13 March 2015 (UTC)reply
It wasn't easy to find for sure, and the quote listed was not precise, but I have now posted the exact quotes and sources for the second and the fifth comment on that list into the article.
Trackinfo (
talk)
21:27, 15 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete. I was about to close this and realized it sounded eerily familiar. With thanks to Trackinfo and MQS, I do not consider the sourcing strong enough (in terms of reliability) to warrant a "keep" vote.
Drmies (
talk)
03:01, 5 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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Listing for deletion due to a lack of non-trivial coverage from reliable publications. Subject was a contestant on the reality television dance show
Nach Baliye 6 and is married to actress
Kanika Maheshwari, though notability is not inherited. Searching for sources
WP:BEFORE this nomination resulted in passing mentions focusing on the subject's wife and minor tabloid coverage. Please contact me on my talk page if I have overlooked a source which would cause this to pass any relevant notability guideline. Regards,
Yamaguchi先生 (
talk)
17:34, 12 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Keep I have added several new references to the article including about one of his permanent exhibitions of Noah's Ark located at the Milwaukee Jewish Community Center.
[36] and
[37] I have also trimmed down sections in the article to make it not look like an advert or resume, but more like an article for a notable public and visual artist. I am sure there are more sources available if anyone cares to take the time to search about more of the various exhibitions. With sourcing from multiple sources this article subject has crossed the threshold of notability.
WordSeventeen (
talk)
03:48, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
CommentWordSeventeen: Recommend removing the sections which are not backed by citations such as Volunteer Experience and adding citations to Publications section. If this looks like less like a resume I would vote to Provisional Keep.
@Robtalk17:22, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete The artist does not meet the requirement of works in major public collections, Nor has there been substantial critical comment. What the article does have is an excess of self-ppromotionalism, over-extended listing of minor events in his CV, and the general impression of autobiography. DGG (
talk )
17:52, 4 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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Unreliable and PR sources only; apparently a promotional article. Books are claimed, but none of them is even in Worldcat. DGG (
talk )
17:42, 12 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Hi and thank you for your interest in the article; I've cited several magazines that are established publications in regards to bodybuilding such as Muscle And Fitness and Bodybuilding.com, can you please advise on how to make the article better? I do not understand what you mean by "Promotional Article"? As for the books, you are correct they are books that were distributed digitally only, should I go ahead and edit those out?
Cada mori (
talk)
17:51, 12 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Ref 2 is an author blurb he wrote himself in the first person, Ref. 3 is an advertisement for his program, complete with product listings, Ref 4 is a list of results that does not mention him, Ref. 5 is a publicity blurb. Ref 1. is the only even conceivably usable source at all, but it's an interview where he says whatever he wants to, which is straight PR. The refs considered all in all are promotional refs that prove this a promotional article. DGG (
talk )
03:03, 13 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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No indication of
notability; the only references that aren't by Genis himself are opinion pieces by personal acquaintances. Even if his friends write columns for The New Yorker, they still don't become secondary sources about Genis. My own searches didn't turn up anything useful beyond some local coverage of Genis' arrest in 2003.
Huon (
talk)
00:10, 20 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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keep or merge (though I'm not sure where to put it). There are tons of hits on this and it appears all over the place in the scholarly literature. It's simply a stub that has never been fleshed out.
Mangoe (
talk)
14:12, 12 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete : Yes, of course such behaviour should be mentioned in the article on dolphins (etc.); but to separate it out like this almost guarantees it will not be read. If it simply duplicates as per Liam987, then delete anyway.
Imaginatorium (
talk)
09:00, 13 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Redirect to
Cetacean intelligence#Complex play, where it is mentioned. The phenomenon is obviously verifiable in many sources; our article on
dolphins has a dolphin bow riding as its lede picture. GScholar shows 607 hits for "bow riding". So deletion is out of the question. Until someone gathers the reliable sources to write a solid article on this topic, redirecting to
Cetacean intelligence#Complex play, where it is mentioned, seems the best course. I'll also note that there is also a form of human bow riding, (riding on the bow of a boat) that is usually
dangerous and illegal. --
Mark viking (
talk)
03:16, 25 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Contested PROD. Concern was Article about a footballer who fails
WP:GNG and who has not played in a fully pro league. PROD was contested based on speculation as to future appearances, which is never grounds for notability.
Sir Sputnik (
talk)
06:18, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep - unnecessary nomination that completely defies
WP:COMMONSENSE. If nominator really felt article shouldn't be here yet, they could have simply moved it to DraftSpace. This player has, as far as I can tell, played every minute of Oklahoma City preseason, and has been scoring goals. There's no question that he won't be in the starting line-up when the season starts in the few days. While with some of these recent nominations of USL players, it's somewhat questionable how long before they'll make a fully professional start. In this case however, short of death or injury, it's going to be 7 PM Central Daylight Time on March 28. So perhaps any closing admins can simply hold this open for a couple of extra days until 7:01 PM Central Daylight Time on March 28 before wasting our time moving it to Draft Space.
Nfitz (
talk)
19:45, 21 March 2015 (UTC)reply
No it doesn't.
WP:CRYSTAL notes that Individual scheduled or expected future events should be included only if the event is notable and almost certain to take place. In this case we have a player who as far as I can tell has played every minute of the preseason and is scoring goals. It's almost certain that he will be in the opening day line-up and that event would be notable—as such
WP:CRYSTAL is not applicable. As this AFD shouldn't normally close until March 26, and the season starts March 28, it's entirely reasonable to simply hold open the AFD for a few extra hours to ensure that he is in the line-up. Your argument completely defies
WP:COMMONSENSE, and you seem to be trying to enforce a non-existent rule.
Nfitz (
talk)
14:05, 22 March 2015 (UTC)reply
WP:CRYSTAL also says It is not appropriate for editors to insert their own opinions or analyses. Predictions, speculation, forecasts and theories stated by reliable, expert sources or recognized entities in a field may be included. So yes your argument does violate the guideline and it also violates
WP:OR. The football project does not keep articles in anticipation of notability. It's whether or not the player is notable at present time. And this player is not notable. –
Michael (
talk)
21:05, 22 March 2015 (UTC)reply
I have inserted no text in an article that constitutes
WP:OR. Go read
WP:OR it states that Wikipedia articles must not contain original research. There is no content in that article, nor has there ever been, that says he is starting. There has never been a violation of
WP:OR and shame on you for suggesting otherwise! To suggest that I've violated
WP:OR is a violation of
WP:AGF! I'm merely suggesting that we delay closing the AFD for a few hours because it's blatantly obvious that this player will be either starting on March 28th. Also you have commented that WP:CRYSTAL also says It is not appropriate for editors to insert their own opinions or analyses. Predictions, speculation, forecasts and theories stated by reliable, expert sources or recognized entities in a field may be included. I have no idea why you are commenting about this, because there is not one word in the article that this applies to. I suggest that you focus on the article here, and apply
WP:COMMONSENSE rather than making up untruths about what is in the article!
Nfitz (
talk)
22:56, 22 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Whether or not
WP:CRYSTALL applies here is a moot point, because
WP:CONSENSUS very clearly does. This is a perennial issue and has always been decided the same way. The inadmissibility of speculation as to future appearances as a source of notability is one the strongest and long standing consensuses concerning the notability of footballers.
Sir Sputnik (
talk)
01:54, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
I don't see the relevance of
WP:CONSENSUS to my request to wait until 7 PM Central Daylight Time on March 28 to close this discussion, because it was very clear that Dalgaard would be in the starting line-up. I do apologize though, as they don't appear to have started until 7:07 pm. Surely a request to wait a few extra hours to close the AFD is only
WP:COMMONSENSE given that it saved us the trouble of undeleting this. What I don't get is why we waste our time deleting a player who very clearly is part of the first team days before the season starts instead of applying
WP:NORUSH.
Nfitz (
talk)
02:04, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Of the ten references, nine are documents authored by the developers. The tenth is a paper defining the term "code smell", and does not mention the article's subject at all. I couldn't find any
reliable sources covering the subject in depth.
Psychonaut (
talk)
14:55, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
QualityGate article correction I have deleted the 10th paper (code smell) and I have expanded the list of references, so it has 11 general reference now. I have changed the picture too, which has made by me.
RitaBartfai87 (
talk)
11:31, 26 March 2015 (UTC)reply
I'm afraid your changes haven't addressed any of the problems raised in this nomination. (In fact, it could be argued that they've made it worse, since now all the references are to documents authored by the developers.) In order for this article to be kept you need to show that QualityGate has been the subject of in-depth coverage in multiple sources entirely unaffiliated with the developers. Please refer to
Wikipedia:Notability for further details on the sort of sourcing we require. —
Psychonaut (
talk)
12:53, 26 March 2015 (UTC)reply
I've deleted some of the references, but the others I think should be ok:
Tibor Bakota, Péter Hegedűs, István Siket, Gergely Ladányi, Rudolf Ferenc: "QualityGate SourceAudit: A Tool for Assessing the Technical Quality of Software": this paper was presented in a conference in Belgium, so it should be a reliable source.
Rita, there was no need to delete any of the references; in many cases it is acceptable to use primary sources to establish certain facts about a subject. The problem is that such references cannot be used to establish the notability of the topic, which is a prerequisite for having a Wikipedia article in the first place.
With respect to the specific references you list above, I'm afraid you overlooked the part where I said that the sources need to be "entirely unaffiliated" with the developers. This means that the articles and wikis produced by the developers are disqualified, even if they were published by a third party or include third-party contributors. Regarding the GITEX and QA Testing Tools sites, you are apparently conflating the publisher and the authors. The publishers of those sites may be independent of the developers, but the text on the pages you link to is word-for-word advertising copy from the QualityGate website. GITEX is a trade fair; it doesn't write its own copy for its participating vendors. QA Testing Tools is a software directory which also doesn't employ its own writers; vendors submit their own software descriptions. —
Psychonaut (
talk)
11:01, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete. I would add to the previous reasons that conferences made by people affiliated with a company/product/etc. do not magically become secondary sources because some third party pays for them. However, the author made a real effort to provide sources, so he should not be
bitten too hard. Please also note that
the use of non-English sources is acceptable if needed, although I personally disagree with that guideline.
Tigraan (
talk)
11:20, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete The sources provided do appear to be primary upon examination. Insufficient coverage (no coverage that I could find) in reliable secondary sources.
Nwlaw63 (
talk)
13:51, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Keep To claim there were no sources at the time of nomination is a major exaggeration. The article cited an LA Times article that made significant mention of Green. I have added others. His articles have clearly had influence.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
12:50, 20 March 2015 (UTC)reply
CMT - One article which mentions him in passing dose not make him notable per
WP:NACADEMICS. To be notable he must have "made significant impact in their scholarly discipline, broadly construed, as demonstrated by independent reliable sources". and "received a highly prestigious academic award or honor at a national or international level." The LA Times article only mentions in one paragraph that he is a a history professor at BYU and he wrote a 2001 essay on Muslims and Mormons.---
ARTEST4ECHO(
Talk)15:58, 24 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment -- The number of publications mentioned in the article does not inspire me with confidence, but I am reluctant to vote on LDS issues.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:20, 21 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete. I looked at the LA Times article and I would not call its mention of Green significant. There were a few sentences (so it's not outright trivial either), but the article was not about Green. He and his work were only briefly mentioned. Several such pieces would "add up", but I don't think one is enough.
Agricola44 (
talk)
15:50, 31 March 2015 (UTC).reply
Keep Inadequate article for notable professor. He's been professor and chair of the history department at a major research university, and that indicates his peers in the academic world consider human expert in his field. His The Tunisian Ulama 1873-1915: Social Structure and Response to Ideological Currents. Leiden: Brill, 1978. by the major europeanacademic publisher in the field is in almost 200 libraries,significant for this subject. It's even been translated into Arabic as العلماء التونسيون / (al-ʻUlamāʼ al-Tūnisīyūn) DGG (
talk )
03:12, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete. essentially promotionalism. There might be an opportunity for a nonpromotional article,b but it would mean starting over DGG (
talk )
03:06, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
A computer recycling company that appears to have generated some press for itself through a thorough media campaign, but does not, in the end, appear all that notable. All of the citations arise from stories that the company itself either wrote, or generated through press releases.
WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!!12:19, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Note: This newly registered account has left the very similar deletion rationales on dozens of AfDs in rapid fashion. Likely he did not read any of the articles (one he said fails "BLP" was a company, for example). --
ThaddeusB (
talk)
15:34, 2 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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Contested PROD. Concern was Article about a footballer who fails
WP:GNG and who has not played in a fully pro league. PROD was contested on the grounds that he had played for Brondby in the Danish Cup. However, since the match in question was a against a lower non-fully-pro-league club, it does not confer notability.
Sir Sputnik (
talk)
17:16, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
I understand your point, and thats not true. Im from Denmark, and I do know danish football very well. The club became a professional club in the winter 2014, when the old
Brøndby IF sportschef
Ole Bjur came to the club, after he was fired in BIF because of due to economic reasons. He invested money, and gave all of the players in the squad new professional contracts.You can read about it on the source, i had linked.[1]
But back to the topic. I think that is a notable article, because he began training with the first team squad when he was only 15 years old, and got his debut when he was 16 years old. Sorry, if my english isn't the best.
Fodbold-fan (
talk)
19:36, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
I have seen many other articles with footballers, who was written about, just when they got debut for the first team even if it was in a cup match, so i do not understand why this is a problem. I would agree, if it was a friendly match or something like that. But it was in a cup match, against a team, who once played in the
Danish Superliga.
Let me start by saying that
other stuff exists is not a valid argument. Each article is to evaluated on its on merits. I have not seen the other articles you refer to, but there is a distinct possibility that some of them should have been deleted as well. The notability issue here stems from point 2 of
WP:NFOOTBALL which says Players who have played, and managers who have managed in a fully professional league, will generally be regarded as notable. In the case of Denmark this means a match in the Superliga (see
WP:FPL for details). While not technically included in the wording of the guideline, there is a long standing consensus that the guideline also applies to competitive matches between clubs that at the time played in fully pro leagues. The idea being that it would be pretty silly to have a match between say Brondby and Randers to confer notability in one competition, but not in another later the same season. Deletion discussions on:
Edson Almeida,
Milancy Khongstia,
Alexandru Chiriță, and
Jamie Harney are recent examples of this rule being applied both the keep articles that meet its criteria and delete articles that don't. This article falls into the latter category. Since his cup appearance was against
Fremad Amager, who do not currently play in the Superliga, neither the
WP:NFOOTBALL guideline nor the cup exception applies. I hope that makes things more clear.
Sir Sputnik (
talk)
20:26, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
I do stil understand your point, but i have to maintain, that he has played for the first team and played a official match for the first team. It wasn't a friendly match, so you can say what you want, its stil a professional and official debut match that he did play. He has also played several matches for the youth national teams of Denmark. I can see, that those other players you linked haven't played any nt games. He still has played this official match for Brøndby IF, and im sure, that it isn't the last one, he is a huge talent in Denmark. If we delete it, it will be 100% sure, that he will be created again soon. I think that he will get many matches in the next year. Or probably be loaned out.
Fodbold-fan (
talk)
20:49, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - Player fails
WP:NFOOTY as has not played in a
fully professional league, nor senior international football. No indication of any other achievements that have garnered sufficient, significant coverage to satisfy
WP:GNG. His cupappearance for Brondby was not in a match featuring two teams from FULLY professional leagues. Regardless of his talent and whether he may or may not play in future, currently he does not satisfy any guideline for notability.
Fenix down (
talk)
16:57, 20 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Move to Draftspace - he's sitting on the bench for fully professional matches, so he's close. Likely will be notable soon, so let's put the article in draft space where it can be prepared and moved over when he makes a fully professional start (against a fully professional squad).
Nfitz (
talk)
23:47, 21 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep Application of NFOOTBALL is incredibly nitpicky in this case. It is close enough and even arguing about it is a waste of time.
Cptnono (
talk)
18:23, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
This application is a fairly
WP:NSPORT is a fairly well-established consensus, and exists for a reason. The early rounds of national cup competitions where non-FPL clubs can play against FPL clubs generally receive far less coverage than the later rounds and are frequently used to test out young players who are by no means ready to play in a league setting yet.
Sir Sputnik (
talk)
18:33, 1 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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I'm not necessarily saying it should be deleted, but I think it should be looked at. It's questionable whether this meets notability guidelines at
WP:CORP. Coverage does not appear to be significant in independent media. Also, there is some evidence that employees of the company are the primary authors, and that it reads like an
WP:ADVERT. Thanks. —
Amakuru (
talk)
18:40, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete The only notable reference is Advertising Age. It announces the beginning of a business. Time will tell if it achieves notability, but for now it lacks notability.
Tapered (
talk)
03:13, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Delete - no evidence of any notability. Reads like an autobiography of a person who believes being awarded a patent is sufficient notability to be included here. VelellaVelella Talk 18:49, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - the person has a patent for a device that the article doesn't explain what it does. That's not notable enough, unless their alledged success has good secondary sourcing. As a sidenote, I also added
WP:BLPPROD to the article.
Joseph2302 (
talk)
18:55, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Article violates
WP:NPOV,
WP:GNG,
WP:NOTNEO.
Article is a partisan attempt to take a factual admission and inject pov.
The Colbert Report was an excellent show, but it was a comedy talk show and I find it unlikely that anyone who has actually seen it could truthfully consider one of Stephen's (albeit hilarious) segments as meeting
WP:RS.
"I'm not a scientist" isn't a 'phrase'. It's a fact. These politicians, like nearly every politician in congress, are not scientists. Over 95% of congress (yes, including Democrats) *should* be saying "I'm not a scientist", because it's the truth.
"I'm not a scientist" violates WP:Neologism. It being referred to as a 'catchphrase' in an article or two, nor its use by 4 people, doesn't make it widely used.
At the most, the specific claims made by each individual politician should be in their respective articles. Including it here only serves as an attempt to associate claims (without providing any context for the comments) of a few people to a wider group. ―Padenton |
☎18:50, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep. A perfectly legitimate topic for an encyclopedia article. Secondary sources have reported on the topic, and we quote the secondary sources; this is exactly how neologisms get articles on Wikipedia. There is no rule against their inclusion, and we only delete non-notable neologisms. Whether coverage of the phrase is fair or not isn't the point. Significant coverage in reliable sources is the issue at hand. If the article isn't neutral, then it can be fixed through normal editing. It sounds like you disagree with the conclusions of the sources. If so, maybe you should write a blog post. 13:44, 20 March 2015 (UTC)— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
NinjaRobotPirate (
talk •
contribs)
Comment. I don't care about the sources. My issue here is about this absurd article which cannot possibly be made into anything encyclopedic, and its only possible purpose is as a PoV fork with the same level of integrity as the memes that come through my Facebook news feed. I already suggested by all means putting criticisms in each of the named politicians (for which there are WP:RS available) regarding these comments, and the specific claims that each of them made. But of course, then WP editors don't get to malign the entire
Republican Party through the use of an
association fallacy.―Padenton |
☎16:27, 20 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete: Not a dictionary, etc. This really does not appear to be a topic at all, it's just a phrase that has been used by various people. Strictly speaking, it's not a neologism, because it doesn't mean anything different from what the words mean naturally. It (I mean the literal title "I'm not a scientist") also is not a fact, any more than "I am a cat lover" is a fact, and in fact this really isn't anything at all.
Imaginatorium (
talk)
15:18, 20 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete – This will never be anything other than a vehicle for heaping (richly deserved) ridicule on certain Republican politicians. It passes GNG with flying colors, but it's just not an encyclopedic topic. –
Margin1522 (
talk)
18:30, 20 March 2015 (UTC)reply
That's for !votes without a reason. I've given a reason. Can you or anyone else suggest some way that this article could be rewritten from a neutral point of view, without losing the crucial point, namely that it is strange for a politician to make this innocuous statement in a context that demands another kind of statement? Do we have articles about statements that are notable because they are inappropriate to their context? –
Margin1522 (
talk)
04:22, 21 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete. The article is basically a
WP:COATRACK for political criticism. Just because it has been occasionally noted in reliable sources that some politicians have mocked other politicians for using this phrase, I don't think that makes it a notable phrase or an encyclopedic topic.
Gnome de plume (
talk)
19:56, 20 March 2015 (UTC)reply
These sources (some of which are indeed already cited in the article) seem to be to be sufficient to support notability. While I wouldn't object to a proper merge/redirect (to
climate change denial, etc.) the content should be preserved.
Neutralitytalk17:30, 21 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete: I don't see anything that suggests significant coverage or anything even remotely close to "social or historical significance". It's simply not notable at this point.
Deli nk (
talk)
13:56, 22 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment by nom (I'm in favor of Delete/Merge): @
Bearian: Not appropriate. Argument from ignorance and other articles on Rhetological fallacies do include examples, but all examples are abstract and merely used to explain the concept. These are articles on philosophical concepts, to inject needless political issues is not appropriate. It's also not actually an example of an argument from ignorance, because it doesn't qualify as an argument in any of the sources in the article, nor the ones that
Neutrality listed above. It's a
Statement_(logic). And if you read the sources, the only conclusion that is ever drawn from this statement is that they are not qualified to debate climate change, etc. You may not like it, but it's not an argument, and it's not an example of Argument from ignorance, because not being a scientist is merely their response, not their reason for denying climate change.
As I suggested in my nomination, the appropriate handling of this is that the specific comments by each politician should be placed on the article about that politician, without attempting to ascribe the words of one politician to others. I would also not be opposed to the content being moved to climate change denial, provided that it is not a
Straw man as it is in this disgusting article, attempting to put the words of a small handful of politicians into the mouths of many. ―Padenton |
☎21:32, 23 March 2015 (UTC)reply
@
Bearian: They aren't making an argument or a point by saying "I'm not a scientist", at least not in the articles I've read and interviews I've seen. They say the words because they are true, they're politicians, not scientific experts. An argument generally follows in the interviews, for example in
[39], it quotes Boehner as saying “I’m not qualified to debate the science over climate change. But I am astute enough to understand that every proposal that has come out of this administration to deal with climate change involves hurting our economy and killing American jobs.” The argument here isn't that the science over climate change is incorrect, false, a hoax, whatever. The argument in this quote is something along the lines of "a proposal to deal with climate change shouldn't be one that hurts the economy and American jobs." "I'm not a scientist" isn't actually part of that argument (paraphrased or not), Boehner's conclusion isn't based on the premise of him not being a scientist, but based on the premise, true or not, that 'past proposals made by the admin. would have killed jobs and hurt the economy.' ―Padenton |
☎22:31, 24 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete. The news coverage is minimal and does not indicate any degree of notability or political significance - it is typical of a passing little political attack that never got much traction. The article, with its clear problems with POV, COATRACK, and FORK as noted several times above, comes across as a shallow attempt to make something out of a non-issue. The fact that the article must rely on references that are opinion pieces (from a single political perspective, at that) gives it away.
Edgeweyes (
talk)
14:30, 24 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep. I can support merging this somewhere, but
Argument from ignorance doesn't seem like an appropriate target to me. What does this have to do with not seeing kangaroos in the back seat of your car? This is definitely not a
WP:content fork of that article; where does
argument from ignorance mention climate science? This topic is far more notable than a substantial portion of Wikipedia's
BLPs.
Wbm1058 (
talk)
12:35, 26 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment Just did a major rewrite. All the quotes were removed because they were criticisms of the Republicans and their phrase, which tilted the article to POV. The links to 'logical fallacy' pages have been deleted--they implied that the phrase was a logical fallacy. Readers can still connect to a page on fallacies from a link in the article itself. This article is noteworthy because the phrase has received extensive coverage in major media.
Tapered (
talk)
05:01, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak keep: I am convinced this is notable
WP:WORDISSUBJECT, but the POV issue is huge and seemingly unsolvable. Basically, that line of defense is completely untenable (no, you are no scientist, but you are supposed to take decisions, so if you have no expertise yourself tell me where you take it from), as are many other politician cheap tricks ("I would not comment on that trial while it is underway, because I respect
presumption of innocence"). It seems however that this line is disproportionately used by politicians from one side, so exposing it for the bollocks it is (as an article that is more than three sentences long is going to do) might be seen as political POV from the other side.
Tigraan (
talk)
11:36, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Delete I don't think suffering a few power outages makes a company notable. They are quite frequent occurrences for web hosting companies. And just because they use a notable person (Pamela Anderson) in one of their advertisements, does not make a company notable. There is nothing else relevant about this run of the mill web hosting company.
Tmsevre1 (
talk)
17:19, 24 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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The result was keep. Compelling arguments that the GNG is met are presented. Note that the article needs serious work--pruning and de-fluffing.
Drmies (
talk)
03:03, 5 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Subject of article does not appear to be notable according to the terms of
WP:POLITICIAN. He was an appointed (not elected) deputy politician of a US city (not a state-wide office nor federal), and article references do not look like they qualify as independent third-party sources with editorial oversight. I was able to find one 4-paragraph article from Jet magazine from April 22, 1976 which mentions Jones becoming deputy mayor, but no discussion in wider media and nothing more in depth. KDS4444Talk23:37, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Hi
User:KDS4444, I completely understand your notion that deputy politicians of cities shouldn't qualify as being notable simply due to their political poisition. As the original creator of the article, I just want to mention some points that can hopefully contribute to the debate over the articles' deletion. First and foremost, the creation of this article is part of a class and I plan on contributing continuously to the page. I realize that as of now I rely heavily on primary sources and possibly shouldn't have gone live with the article, but there do exist independent third-party sources that cover Jeep Jones and his relevant importance to the city of Boston. In regards to April, 1976, the time of the school busing debate in Boston, Jones played a role in mediating tensions within the city. I've found a few published books thus far in a general search that mention his role in the racial issue, including Rebound!: Basketball, Busing, Larry Bird, and the Rebirth of Boston By Michael Connelly (2008) and The Soiling of Old Glory: The Story of a Photograph That Shocked America By Louis P Masur (2008). I really do appreciate your comment and concern as this is my first experience with the creation of an article. I request that this page be kept 'alive' until further, more in-depth edits can be added at which point I'd accept deletion if consensus dictates so. I do not ask that the "request for deletion" tag be removed, I just wanted to add my input to the talk page. Let me know what you're thinking about this! Thanks
Matt rodgers2 (
talk)
13:18, 24 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep The article needs more references, and it needs to lose a few puffery terms like "outstanding". But he certainly looks notable to me. Granted, he does not meet
WP:POLITICIAN, but he almost certainly meets
WP:GNG - among other things for being the first African-American to hold a number of city positions. Serving on the Boston Redevelopment Agency would not be notable by itself, but serving on it for more than 30 years and chairing it for 24 of them sounds a little more significant. The city thought he was notable enough to name a park after him. --
MelanieN (
talk)
01:41, 26 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete Not notable to the point of being an article. Some articles might benefit from this information but I don't see this topic meeting GNG
Bryce Carmony (
talk)
00:44, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Some reliable sources may not be easily accessible. For example, an online source may require payment, and a print source may be available only in university libraries or other offline places. Do not reject sources just because they are hard or costly to access. If you have trouble accessing a source, others may be able to do so on your behalf (see
WikiProject Resource Exchange).
The sources listed above cannot be rejected "just because they are hard or costly to access" (per the policy I quoted above).
Delete Deputy major is not notable, so the article are no t significant. This is essentially political promotionalism. DGG (
talk )
02:59, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment: That's kind of an irrelevant argument, actually - because nobody has claimed that deputy mayors are notable, or that this subject is notable because he was deputy mayor. We all agree that he fails
WP:POLITICIAN. The discussion here is whether he meets the more general notability standard,
WP:GNG, by having received significant coverage from independent reliable sources. (I am also impressed by the city naming a park after him. Apparently the city of Boston thought he was notable.) --
MelanieN (
talk)
23:34, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment -- In full disclosure, I'm assisting with the class in which this student is participating. I can comment re: political promotionalism: the subject of this article is not involved with the creation of this article. In addition,
WP:NRVE states reliable citations only need to exist, even if they haven't made it into the article yet. (Obviously, getting them into the article is the best option.) And, thanks to
KDS4444 and
MelanieN for your many comments and help here and elsewhere!
AmandaRR123 (
talk)
21:43, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
This sounds great,
AmandaRR123. And that reliable citations exist is good to hear! But that claim, without actual supporting evidence, doesn't allow anyone to
WP:VERIFY it or independently assess the subject's notability. The terms of article creation are quite clear: "All material in Wikipedia mainspace, including everything in articles, lists and captions, must be verifiable". Also, from
WP:NRVE: "However, once an article's notability has been challenged [as it has here], merely asserting that unspecified sources exist is seldom persuasive".
Hirolovesswords has offered a list of sources which might provide evidence of notability. The sources look reliable (The Boston Globe is a newspaper with sufficient distribution and editorial oversight), but with only the limited information so far provided (i.e, with no page numbers and ideally some links to the archives of the newspaper itself) and without including them in the article to know what parts of it are supported by which citations, we cannot tell if this coverage is anything more than
WP:ROUTINE which would not be evidence of notability. I am willing to concede that the article's subject might, in fact, be a notable politician... I am only asking for the article to meet the basic standards for inclusion on Wikipedia, one of which is evidence of notability as demonstrated by the inclusion of multiple independent reliable sources so that this can be verified. --KDS4444Talk23:03, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I hear you on not being able to see these historical newspaper sources! It's one of the most frustrating things, working with these historical topics -- not being able to easily share these sources. I'm adding a few citations as "further reading" linking to the Globe archival snippet online. Not perfect, but gives more of a sense of the scope of coverage?
AmandaRR123 (
talk)
01:40, 4 April 2015 (UTC)reply
AmandaRR123: The Boston Globe provides on-line access to all of its articles dating back to 1872, with a search page located
here. We don't need to be able to read the full article, we just need to see a link that points to it— the articles you are referring to must also exist in the electronic archive, yes? Because then all you need to do is fill out a newspaper citation template located
here and use the URL of the electronically archived page to fill in the URL field, and ta da! Citation complete! KDS4444Talk05:51, 4 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep In addition to The Boston Globe articles listed above by Hirolovesswords, here is an article from the Boston Business Journal that is already in the Wikipedia article:
Consider this
article from the Boston Globe, June 9, 2005: Peabody to name new city clerk. It reads, "The Peabody City Council at its meeting tonight is expected to select a successor to City Clerk Natalie Maga, who is retiring effective July 1. Maga has been clerk since 1977." That is the entire article. Although it comes from a well-known and highly reliable source, it does not make either Natalie Maga nor her successor notable because it is routine information akin to a marriage announcement or an obituary. Every city in the U.S. likely makes announcements when a city official retires or is hired, but that does not make the subject notable. What we need in order to retain this particular article is something that provides in-depth coverage— not just a retirement notice, no matter how reliable the source. — KDS4444Talk05:37, 4 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I was the one who suggested to AmandaRR that if there wasn't currently time or opportunity to cite additional sources in the text, they could be listed as "Further Reading" so that they can be evaluated for purposes of this AfD. These are not all "routine announcements"; in fact, considering the non-notable nature of his deputy mayor position, he got a surprising amount of coverage during his time at city hall. And it's not just a matter of counting the sources; it's also what they SAY about him. Examples already in the article: the Business Journal article says he was "a central figure in the building renaissance that has transformed Boston’s skyline." The book Rebound describes him as one of the city's "most prominent black leaders."
[49] IMO the newspaper and other citations currently in the article add up to GNG, both in number and in content. --
MelanieN (
talk)
09:41, 4 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Agreed. The quotes about him in books and major newspapers strongly demonstrate that he is notable. That Boston named a park about him also strongly indicates that he is notable.
Cunard (
talk)
10:23, 4 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep - Pretty clearly a delete if we stick to the POLITICIAN high bar (insufficient elected office). However, the fact that he is the namesake of a Boston park tips me the other way in this specific instance.
Carrite (
talk)
17:09, 4 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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Delete Does not appear to be notable, since most of the sources are either unreliable for one reason or another, or cover the singer solely in the context of the band. I'd argue for a redirect, but one already exists under
Yook Sungjae.
Spirit of Eagle (
talk)
03:10, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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Keep: Ah, OK. So why are they special? I think they made a lot of inventions we technical guys now use in daily live e.g. they invented the "hand held spectrum analyzer" (before we needed to carry heavy and bulky ultra high cost units) and in 2015 they invented the first (and only) RF video camera. Boy, i think THAT is something.
They are also great in antenna techniques: They invented a lot of unique antennas (look at the LPDAs and magnetic antennas they offer) and push the "state of the art" every year with new exiting stuff so far not know on the market.
Oh, and not to forget: They invented the first Polyphase REALTIME spectrum analyzer in a hand held form factor. That for sure should be another "significant or demonstrable effect" in "science" and "technlogy".
DELETE Please note that all the "keep" recommendations are in effect, "They're important keep them," without one shred of backing evidence. The references are almost exclusively technical papers which say very little about Aaronia. No notable second of third party references documenting notability.
Keep: Look at the updated Aaronia Wiki page for a lot of second or third party references.
Comment Yep. I looked. Aaronia is tangential in several of the references. Only 2 of the references can be considered reliable articles that might meet
WP:NOTE criteria. I invite the admins, or whoever makes the choices on these questions, to look through the refs and decide accordingly. Again, most of the "keeps" have, for practical purposes, said, "I know, listen to me."
Tapered (
talk)
08:25, 30 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete It is possible that some of the products are notable, but it can't be told from this article, which is a product catalog. No information about size of the firm, or market share. No objection to starting over. DGG (
talk )
02:57, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep Product catalog is shown clearly on the Wikipage.
"No information about size of the firm, or market share." This should be of no relevance for keep or delete but you are free to add those information. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
80.187.110.234 (
talk)
19:20, 4 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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The result was Speedy close. AfD is for articles that should be deleted. If you think this should be merged somewhere or other this is the wrong place to discuss it.
Michig (
talk)
07:17, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Novel that has been long tagged for notability, from the looks of it-it can be merged into either the author or the previous book it is based off of
Wgolf (
talk)
00:01, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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I looked up the books and most of them are not self-published; they are published by university presses like University of Arizona and University of Texas. 18:12, 28 March 2015 (UTC) — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
76.250.36.227 (
talk)
Keep In this academic area, the
h-index of 24 given by Google Scholar for the subject looks like a reasonably good indicator that she meets
WP:PROF#C1 (though I'm open to correction if other sources suggests that this is one of the cases where GScholar has got things wrong).
PWilkinson (
talk)
16:16, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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The result was keep. Editors who have suggested that the text be merged elsewhere should feel free to pursue that option if they wish. --
Ed (
Edgar181)
14:49, 4 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep. A well-known non-SI metric unit. Plenty of references exist, and two have been added to the article. Also, as another editor notes below, this is not dictionary content; it's weights and measures, which is almanac content, specifically included in
WP:5. The definition section is no longer blank, so there is no longer a valid deletion criterion. --
120.17.41.188 (
talk)
23:07, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment This is not an issue of notability and thus not a question of the existence of references or how well-known it is. It is a question if it is capable of becoming more than a dictionary definition, this doesn't meet the standards of a stub. There is no purpose in keeping an article about an obsolete unit of measurement that will never go beyond a dictionary definition, regardless of whether it is material that would be included in an almanac or not. Be careful of editors who
WP:CHERRYPICK Wikipedia policies to support their statements. Also per
WP:5,
Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, more specifically, Information should not be included in this encyclopedia solely because it is true or useful. An encyclopedia article should not be a complete exposition of all possible details, but a summary of accepted knowledge regarding its subject. There simply is not enough content here to warrant a standalone article. -
War wizard90 (
talk)
23:28, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment. There is enough material on the history of this unit to take this to a standalone article. You only say "there simply is not enough content here to warrant a standalone article" because you
have not looked. --
120.17.41.188 (
talk)
00:56, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
You're making assumptions, how do you know I
have not looked? I looked and did not find much, simply saying it was used in chemisty once isn't enough for a standalone article. Sure there are plenty of verifiable sources, but they all say the same few things about it. If you believe there is enough material on the history of the unit for a standalone article, then by all means, improve the article to avoid this deletion. You have made some improvements, but a history of once being used in chemistry still isn't enough. -
War wizard90 (
talk)
03:15, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete I vote delete because the content can fit easily in
Lambda and that article would serve as a better incubator for the content. if Lambda as a unit of measurement gets so much information in the article it can spin out we could then split the article and have Lambda (unit) be a great article not a stub.
Bryce Carmony (
talk)
00:23, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment. If the content is merged,
Lambda is in my view a poor target, because it has nothing to do with measurement. Logically
Lambda (unit) belongs with other non-SI metric units like
calorie,
erg, or
Angstrom, but most of those have their own page. Since it's an alternate name for "microlitre,"
litre might be an appropriate merge target. However, even if such a merge occurs (and I would argue against it), there is no reason at all to delete the article history. --
120.17.41.188 (
talk)
00:56, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Response The rason I think
Lambda would be a good article is that the article already has sections "Lambda as a name" and "Lambda as a programming construct" so having "Lambda as a unit of measurement" isn't that much of a strech for the article.
Bryce Carmony (
talk)
01:04, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep. I found another reference to its use in chemistry making think that it has some historical significance related to the early science of chemistry. Bfpage |
leave a message21:59, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment Read the nomination reason, the issue is not Notability, so finding more sources to backup previously made statements does NOT make this article somehow more worthy of inclusion. The issue is that there isn't enough information in reliable secondary sources to warrant anything more than a dictionary definition. So, perhaps, a transwiki to Wiktionary would be appropriate, but a dictionary definition of a rarely used term is not appropriate for an encyclopedia. Yes, it was historically used in chemistry/medicine and may see some small uses today, but how does that translate into an article that can "minimally" meet the requirements of a stub? Don't forget, AfD, is not here just to debate the merits of the notability of articles. Notability is not the only factor in determining the appropriateness of an article. Simply put, and as I already stated in the nomination,
Wikipedia is not a dictionary, this is nothing more than a dictionary definition with as yet, no substance to make it an article and no evidence that enough content is out there to make it substantial. -
War wizard90 (
talk)
01:26, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment. In spite of being deprecated, the lambda as a unit is still used. This is probably because it avoids errors where a µ is misread as an m (which, in medicine, would result in a massive overdose), but I haven't yet found a reliable reference for that. --
120.17.117.224 (
talk)
07:48, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Merge to a new section of
lambda. When I saw this, I was ready to hate yet-another-stupid-unit-article-with-the-almanach-crowd, but the article as it stands is more than just a dictionary definition: it discusses the problems with µL that can be mixed up with mL with what looks like a reliable source. Alas, this is a
WP:PERMASTUB, so I would merge it with
lambda.
Tigraan (
talk)
09:49, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Merge - per the rationale given by Tigraan; merging to
lambda seems like the best option, because while the article is notable, it will almost certainly never be expanded beyond a stub.
Inks.LWC (
talk)
02:23, 1 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep asaseparate article "never will be expanded beyond a stub" is not a reason to merge. permeant stub articles are appropriate when there is a separate and specific meaning. DGG (
talk )
03:29, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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Keep - Firstly, our policies and guidelines do not and have never banned articles because their source material "appears to be primarily a translation of Russian material" or any language's material. The writing of articles that are based primarily on non-English reliable sources is encouraged - See
Wikipedia:Systemic bias. It's hard to imagine such a monument in the United States or United Kingdom even being considered for AfD. Plenty of sources available in Russian or otherwise.
[1][2][3][4][5][6][7]. Secondly, by the nom's statement "No reliable sources in article" indicates a complete lack of following
WP:AFD's
WP:BEFORE. It took me seconds to find these sources. As WP:AFD states, if "adequate sources do appear to exist, the fact that they are not yet present in the article is not a proper basis for a nomination." --
Oakshade (
talk)
20:58, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment The thing is that with no english sources - the ones you linked to also appear to be all Russian sources, inclusion of them involves a certain level of
WP:OR that being said, I'd agree with the prior two suggestions to merge with
Nevyansk.
Simonm223 (
talk)
23:11, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep. Clearly notable 18th century building, which would be obviously notable whichever country it was situated in. Once again, we have editors who don't understand what OR is (a tiresomely increasing problem). Translations of foreign material do not fall into this category. Please actually bother to readWP:OR (or even the "this page in a nutshell" section) before you cite it. It really doesn't say what you think it does. --
Necrothesp (
talk)
09:23, 30 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep, obviously, due to extremely unusual nature and history of building from what I read in the article which makes it clearly noteworthy, so I would completely expect there would be sourcing about it. Further I assume good faith that the Russian language sources do serve as editor Oakshade asserts they do, just like we AGF about off-line sources. AGF rather than OR is the relevant assumption. Scant risk that this is a hoax which experienced editor Oakshade is pulling on us. :) --
doncram12:47, 30 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep. While this article could use some de-mystification, I see nothing concerning about notability. Why this was brought up is the greater mystery.--Aurictalk18:03, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Not a seperate crime. Murder is always premeditated. Premeditation is what distinguishes it from manslaughter. Even the link to the US law provided in the article states that murder by itself includes premeditation. The term Premeditated murder is nothing but a
pleonasm.
Tvx1
19:28, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep it's a stub now but it could be improved easily. deletion should be for articles that have no hope of being good. This article could easily rack up references to an articles worth of content.
Bryce Carmony (
talk)
00:09, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep and improve. Certainly not a pleonasm. The suggestion that pre-meditation is always an element of murder is verifiably wrong. In Bermuda, there is or was a "separate offence" of "premeditated murder" under section 286A of the Criminal Law Amendment Act 1980:
discussed in this judgment, which seems to have formerly carried a mandatory death penalty:
[8]. In England, a murder can certainly be committed without pre-meditation (see, for example,
page 497 of the 13th edition of Smith and Hogan's Criminal Law or any other book on English criminal law, such as these:
[9][10]. Lord Hailsham said that premeditation was unnecessary in
R v Cunningham, following Hyam v DPP. And this is a very well known fact). 18 U.S. Code
§ 1111 does speak of premeditated killings, in the context of first degree murder only, and one does find sources discussing this and calling it "premeditated murder":
[11]. One can also find discussion in the context of South Africa:
[12] (apparently a reference to the mandatory sentence imposed on "planned or premeditated murder" by section 51 of the Criminal Law Amendment Act 105 of 1997).
James500 (
talk)
05:30, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep - while it needs cleanup, it meets
WP:GNG; furthermore, as others have noted, premeditation is not an inherent part of murder in all jurisdictions.
Inks.LWC (
talk)
02:36, 1 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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Delete the content can easily find a home in
Clinical neuroscience. Clinical Neuro is small and could easily absorb the CBB model ( and any other models ) and if it gets big we can spin out later but right now this Article doesn't stand on its own.
Bryce Carmony (
talk)
00:17, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Delete None of the sources listed are usable per
WP:MEDRS, which should govern this article. And I don't think that it would be possible to find any usable sources.
Looie496 (
talk)
14:12, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Why Delete Guys please tell me what should I have to do?, to save this article!, This is my first article and I worked really hard on it. And its a valid article guys trust me.
Anup Allwin (
talk)
07:26, 30 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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The result was Procedural close. The previous debate closed as withdrawn only two hours before this opened, when the previous nominator correctly judged that no consensus would be reached. Another debate so soon after is not appropriate.
See
WP:DELETE: "After a deletion debate concludes and the page is kept, users should allow a reasonable amount of time to pass before nominating the same page for deletion again, to give editors the time to improve the page. Renominations shortly after the earlier debate are generally closed quickly" and "If you believe a page was wrongly deleted, or should have been deleted but wasn't, or a deletion discussion was improperly closed, you should discuss this with the person who performed the deletion, or closed the debate, on their talk page. If this fails to resolve the issue, you can request review of the closure at Wikipedia:Deletion review."
Fences&Windows21:03, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Per
WP:BLP1E - yes, it was a fairly noteworthy event at this time, however he is unlikely to receive ongoing event, the subject is otherwise unknown (#2), he has only received coverage in reguards to this (#1), and the event is relatively insignificant as a crash(#3) as it is not one of the "top few" which are often requoted, it will likely fall into insignificance, with no significant context, other than it is currently receiving lots of coverage. Suggest merging into
Germanwings Flight 9525 as appropriate.
Mdann52 (
talk)
17:06, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Strong Keep, completely disagree with the above, as: The subject is now well known by a large amount of people; his persona has received coverage not only with regard to the airplane crash, but also wrt mental health; every air crash is almost always very significant; and the context added is significant, too. -
Mardus (
talk)
17:14, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep. This is not a typical air crash; this is a rare and highly notable event of an individual in an unusual position of power over the lives of others taking those lives. This person will likely now be the subject of case studies for as long as there is manned flight.
bd2412T 17:17, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
Keep. Notable because it is very rare that an aeroplane crash is intentionally caused by the plane's own co-pilot, not by a hijacker or a terrorist. The article is well sourced too.
JIP |
Talk17:38, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Merge and Redirect. There is no reason to expect this person will ever be known for anything other than his role in this one event, which is (and will be) better documented in another article. In the very unlikely event that ever changed, it could be spun-out into a separate article, but that is speculative. -
Jason A. Quest (
talk)
17:42, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Being known for one event is not a valid deletion rationale. We have no policy that states articles for people should be deleted because they are known for one event. We do, however, have
WP:ONEEVENT that states, "If the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, a separate article is generally appropriate". If you're instead arguing that his role or the event is insignificant and can address the issues of
WP:LASTING now that industry standards for major airlines has changed as a result, then I'll need to review your sources that support your opinion on the matter. Meanwhile, there are several sources that state this does have lasting consequences for the industry and the individual and event has received significant coverage.
Mkdwtalk20:28, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep for the same reason I gave in the first debate some hours ago. (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Andreas Lubitz). Once all these tags go we can get down to actually working on the article.
Ulcerspar12 (
talk)
17:44, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Strong Keep - The whole crash and himself have obviously received alot of coverage and then there's the fact he appeared to have some sort of mental illness, As BD2412 notes this is extremely rare so IMHO should be kept. –
Davey2010Talk17:56, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
@
Mdann52: I would like to point you to this sentence, directly in the section that is tagged with
WP:BLP1E, "It is important for editors to understand two clear differentiations of the People notable for only one event guideline (WP:BIO1E) when compared with this policy (WP:BLP1E): WP:BLP1E should be applied only to biographies of living people and to biographies of low-profile individuals.". Living is italicized and was intentionally put in there because BLP deals in some cases of recently deceased, but there was a need to have parts of it not deal with that issue.
Mkdwtalk20:49, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak keep per BD2412 and Morhange. Looks like WP:1E on the face of it, but the wider issue of mental health looks bound to create extensive non-routine coverage.
GregorB (
talk)
17:59, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep Firstly, there are plently of sources concerning this person. Secondly, the merge of this article into the crash itself is unwise because the history of the pilot will really help to understand the genesis of the suicide. A long description of the personality in the crash article would look out of context. It is the reason why I would favour a separate article.
Malosse (
talk)
18:31, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
WP:BLP1E is "Biographies of Living People". That's what the "L" stands for in the link. Anyone citing that as a "policy based" argument is actually not. The wording for
WP:BIO1E is different.
WP:BLP1E and
WP:BIO1E are two of the most improperly cited rationales for deletion after
WP:NOT. Most people assume that anyone only notable for one event is not noteworthy enough for a standalone article which is not what the policy states at all. It actually, clearly states, "if media coverage of both the event and the individual's role grow larger, separate articles may become justified". This individual has received significant coverage because of their involvement. Almost unprecedented amounts for a pilot.
The incident already has lasting consequences per
WP:LASTING. Several airlines and alliances have stated industry wide changes as to the minimum number of authorized personnel in the cockpit. The German aviation authority is expected to introduce legislation (something directly cited in LASTING) which is why airlines have already introduced these policies. This is the very definition of
WP:LASTING and why we have it. Any statements that this will "likely" fall into insignificant is literally a personal opinion based on nothing found in a reliable source. We don't use
WP:OR to tell us the notability of things. We use publications and reliable sources.
This could arguably be a procedural close for no valid del rationale. I would also like to remind
Mdann52 that the previous AFD was closed less than two hours prior with a strong consensus as keep. A renomination falls under
WP:DPAFD and could constitute directly as disruption.
Mkdwtalk20:11, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
@
Mkdw: That was closed as a (speedy) keep as a withdrawn nomination. Remoninating one of those is generally, IMO, not as disruptive. Additionally, BLP1E also applies to recently deceased people, as does the rest of the policy, although that may just be my interpretation.
Mdann52 (
talk)
20:48, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
There's a sentence directly in
WP:BLP1E that addresses the issue of
WP:BIO1E, in that context, and says "WP:BLP1E should be applied only to biographies of living people and to biographies of low-profile individuals." so I strongly contest your interpretation. The word is even italicized to point that out. As for the previous AFD, it was highly participated in with a clear keep outcome. The nominator even ended up !voting "Snow keep". Had this simply been a standard withdrawal, I would agree, but I think anyone looking at it would see it as
double jeopardy.
Mkdwtalk20:50, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete. Two things. If this is a notable social media network, it needs, by definition, some serious widespread sourcing to be notable; failing multiple articles in mainstream sources that report on online media, it's not notable. Second, one would expect such coverage to be sufficiently in-depth. Cunard has done (as usual) a remarkable job in finding coverage, but they appear to be lacking in both breadth and depth. In other words, as is suggested by at least two editors, it may be too soon for this outfit.
Drmies (
talk)
02:46, 5 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete I agree with RHaworth, and groaned inwardly as I saw this article. On a more serious note though, I barely see evidence the social network exists
[13] let alone its notability. Sources used in the article...Buzzfeed...and an article on a .biz domain titled "How I broke new social media site Natter in 120 seconds"... Natter may someday be a great site (I certainly hope not) but it is far
WP:TOOSOON to merit an article. ―Padenton|
✉05:25, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete One source:
[14] (looks like the same one Padenton spoke of). That "natter" actually means something in normal English (= small talks) adds a lot of unrelated results and I might miss some from that, but it could be a good case of
WP:TOOSOON. 野狼院ひさしu/
t/
c12:47, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
I am constantly being sent press releases about websites that claim to be the next big thing about social media but Natter wants to be the next small thing, serving up a Twitter-like platform with a limit of just three words. It's fun coming up with creative ways to express yourself with such a tight deadline or reading other people's posts. I can't see this becoming a platform people have actual conversations on them.
PCR deputy editor Laura Barnes shares her views on the new social media website that's just secured a six-figure investment.
...
Described by its developers as a nano social networking platform, ‘Natter.com was conceptualised as a three word networking service to allow friends to connect through short and snappy messages offering a new social experience’.
...
“Natters tend to fall into one of three types: deeply considered and thought provoking three word statements, often with a sense of mystery, a simple check in such as ‘in the pub’ or those looking for the challenge and fun that comes with sharing their views in just three words,” comments founder Neil Stanley.
Natter.com, the three word social network, has today received its first investment in the company as business ‘Angels’ have invested an undisclosed six-figure sum to help the tech startup continue to grow.
@
Cunard: First, I would appreciate it if you would remove all the webcitation links from your comments, as it makes it difficult for anyone to look at archiveurls are rarely used in deletion discussions, and the websites often strip away any stylesheets/images making the content very difficult to read.
I'll come back to this
I'm going to need to see more info before we declare TechSpark as having "Editorial Oversight" Maybe ask for comment at
WP:RSN? This article also doesn't seem to have much encyclopedic information.
Citing the developers as a source. It's not reliable thorough coverage independent of the subject, which is what GNG requires.
To view the original URLs, click on "the original" from "Archived from the original". The WebCitation links are necessary in case the article is nominated for deletion again in the future and the sources become dead links.
A social networking website launched by a Bath company in January has introduced new features as it seeks to attract more users.
Natter.com is one of two social networking sites run from The Tramshed off Walcot Street. Natter is run by former banker Neil Stanley, while Whisbird is run by the team that is also behind the Xcetra brand agency.
Natter's aim is for people to make new friends around the globe by allowing them to converse via a webcam in a safe way. The only tools they need are an internet connection, a webcam and a genuine Facebook account.
Visitors to natter.com are asked to select the sort of person they are interested in meeting. Having found a Natter user, the two people can then talk, initially for just one minute. Once the minute's up, the users then decide whether they want to continue their chat, and can decide whether to add their new friend on Facebook.
At the end of every successful one-minute chat, both users receive a 'Natter point'. Collecting as many of these as possible benefits the Natter user in the future by indicating they are polite and friendly.
TWO entrepreneurs are following in the footsteps of Facebook creator Mark Zuckerberg after launching their own social networking site.
Phillip Harris, 25, and housemate Tom Fide, 25, are hoping their latest creation, Natter, will be the next big online phenomenon – giving people from Rhondda Cynon Taff a safe and exciting new place to find new friends.
Natter, which encourages “friendly and polite” webcam chatting, has been described by Mr Harris as “a form of online speed-dating” – a market untouched by the larger internet corporations.
It has the backing of CEO and co-founder, Neil Stanley (ex-Goldman Sachs and Lombard Odier).
The second Bath Chronicle article and the Western Mail article in particular provide substantial coverage about the company. Both the 2011 and 2014 articles mention company cofounder Neil Stanley so I am certain that this is the same company. The company remains a social media network though their product has changed from webcam chatting to a Twitter-like platform with three-word posts.
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Fails
WP:BLP1E - Prior to the Jezza incident he wasn't known at all and he'll probably be only known for this and that's it,
The incident is mentioned on both the
Jeremy Clarkson article and the
Top Gear article so no objections to Redirecting if wanted. –
Davey2010Talk15:01, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep while I understand the concern about BLP1E, he flys past
WP:GNG and the rest of the notability criteria, and has had extensive coverage in multiple news sources. I am still planning on expansion with past this to to fill it in past 1 event but I'm on mobile right now so I'm limited. EoRdE6(
Come Talk to Me!)15:14, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
No he's not. He doesn't pass WP:GNG on any of these. Simply being mentioned in the credits or working on the project does not establish notability. --
AussieLegend (
✉)
03:19, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - The reason I prodded this article is that
WP:BLP1E applies. Contrary to the claim in the first sentence of the article, the individual is not "best known for his role in producing
Top Gear (2002 TV series)". He is best known for being punched by
Jeremy Clarkson and it was only this incident that resulted in him being found to be a producer of Top Gear. Prior to this he was not listed as a producer of the series, this was only added to
Top Gear (2002 TV series) more than two weeks after Clarkson was suspended.
[15] In fact, had Tymon given Clarkson his steak, we'd probably still be blissfully ignorant of Tymon's involvement in the series. --
AussieLegend (
✉)
15:17, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment to those referring to
WP:BLP1E I will quote directly from there:
"We should generally avoid having an article on a person when each of three conditions is met:
If reliable sources cover the person only in the context of a single event. (Iffy on this point)
If that person otherwise remains, and is likely to remain, a low-profile individual. Biographies in these cases can give undue weight to the event and conflict with neutral point of view. In such cases, it is usually better to merge the information and redirect the person's name to the event article. (He could gain more coverage in the future, but I'm no
crystal ball)
If the event is not significant or the individual's role was either not substantial or not well documented.(The event is significant and has recieved excessive media coverage and he played a substantial well documented role in it)"
Point 3 of
WP:BLP1E goes on to say: "John Hinckley, Jr., for example, has a separate article because the single event he was associated with, the Reagan assassination attempt, was significant and his role was both substantial and well documented", this is an example of what is meant by a significant event in this context of BLP1E. BLP1E also states that "The significance of an event or individual is indicated by how persistent the coverage is in reliable sources." Given how recent this event is (it only became public knowledge on 10 March), the coverage of Tymon cannot be described as persistent.
January (
talk)
16:32, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Note: I have
expanded the article quite a bit, to include more notability displaying things like his past filmography. I have also added 5 times the references as before. Can I also site
WP:DONOTDEMOLISH in saying this article was nominated less than an hour after creation? EoRdE6(
Come Talk to Me!) 00:56, 29 March 2015 (UTC) I also want to point out I have added references to sources outside of the
Steakgate incident which reference his notability as the producer of Top Gear, much in the same way as
Andy Wilman.EoRdE6(
Come Talk to Me!)01:44, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
The number of references in the article is irrelevant. We only require BLPs to have at least one references and BLPs require strong references. Points in the article are supported by 2, 3 and 4 references, but that doesn't make the article any better, because they're all referencing the one incident. Basic information, like the birthdate, remain unreferenced and the recently added filmography is now referenced by IMDB, which is why I added {{BLP IMDB refimprove}}, which you've now removed. I'm sorry, but everything in the article is biographical, so that tag was entirely appropriate. Regarding
WP:DONOTDEMOLISH. the article was nominated for the obvious reason that the subject is notable only for one event and isn't going to pass
WP:GNG any time soon.
Davey2010's nomination was entirely appropriate. --
AussieLegend (
✉)
01:21, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Just a note to say that it's considered bad form to keep altering your posts after they've been replied to.
[16] Regarding that addition, Andy Wilman was notable prior to the recent incident, for many years in fact. His BAFTA awards establish his notability. The references you've been adding merely supplement the IMDB filmography. These don't establish notability on their own. --
AussieLegend (
✉)
02:15, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep While it is true that this is "an article on some non-notable bloke only becoming known due to the fact he got smacked by a celebrity", the events this occurance has precipitated are both ongoing and very relevant - for example, the death threats to the head of the BBC which are being reported as happening as a result of events surrounding the gentleman in question. People, do, indeed , have no idea who Oisin Tymon is, or what he has done in his proffesional career, or why he was in the position in which he found himself - and people will come to Wikipedia looking for these facts. SO - whatever any guidlines may say, the article serves a very obvious purpose, and should be kept. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
81.101.108.253 (
talk)
22:00, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Notability is not inherited. With the effects from this seemingly ever-expanding, the entire incident might possibly warrant a standalone article at some point, but Oisin Tymon would be a mere mention in that article. It still would not justify a standalone article for him. --
AussieLegend (
✉)
22:06, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
I agree we should basically have articles on stuff but there's just some things that just don't need an article and this is a fine example, Anyway agree with AussieLegend perhaps the incident may have an article but as for Oision.... well this is far as it goes...... –
Davey2010Talk22:37, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
KEEP even without the Clarkson incident he would have been notable for his large filmography background and the sources in that section. This incident just furthers his notability.
50.123.131.195 (
talk)
13:37, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Well, he wasn't notable and had no article before this event so I don't see how that claim is supportable. The world was only made aware of his existence because of the incident. A filmography (which is still partially sourced to IMDB only!) on its own does not establish notability. --
AussieLegend (
✉)
16:46, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment Wikipedia is not
IMDb. It does not list every person involved in the making of TV shows or films. There is no way that Oisin Tymon would be notable without being socked in the face because Jeremy Clarkson did not get a steak with fondant potatoes.--♦IanMacM♦(talk to me)15:52, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - I'd have thought anyone who's spent a reasonable amount of time on Wikipedia would realise that this article is pointless and not needed whatsoever. The introduction is effectively talking about an incident with Jeremy Clarkson with a bit of padding about producing Top Gear. Ignoring the 'fracas' a few weeks ago, would this article have ever been created had he produced Top Gear for the rest of his life? Not a chance. 100% in favour of deletion. Bestbaggiesfan✉01:50, 1 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete If his previous achievements didn't warrant an article, being sloshed round the chops certainly won't. Also oppose redirection.--Launchballer19:06, 2 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - Not notable enough to warrant own article, delete on the basis that any notable content from this page can be wholly integrated into either the Clarkson or TG articles.
Tegrenath (
talk)
23:43, 2 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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Delete -
Goncalowiki2000 (
Goncalowiki2000) 20:10 4 April 2015 (UTC)I know that, but I'm sure that will be deleted, but I will create
2015–16 Primeira Liga soon. But don't be very mad from me, I will put everything that I've put in this page after that. And 1 more thing, don't delete the page that I will create soon.
Here's the explanation,I know about that will be notable in the future, but I can't let the
2015–16 Primeira Liga been deleted too, it's because I had begun creating one of my first articles in Wikipedia. Sorry. But I certainly put on the teams save from the previous league so to be ready once it begins. Note: I will create that article in June. Does everyone agree?
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Was unsure to do the prod or xfd but went with this-non notable doctor from what I can tell-as a note there is a page linked to this name but a different person as it links to a sports page.
Wgolf (
talk)
14:24, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete Non-notable postdoctoral fellow. I took out the bit about his "professional striping" and considered that this might have been set up as a hoax or an attack page, but that's the only
WP:BLP issue I can see.
EricEnfermero (
Talk)
04:32, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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does not meet
WP:GNG, could meet no.5 of
WP:NBOOK if it exists but appears to be a
WP:HOAX, google search brings up nothing, ditto worldcat search and trove (OZ librarys) search. article refers to 'Fairy Tales translated by Tiina Nunnally (2005) does not contain it.[
[17]], complete list of Anderson's fairytales doesn't show it,[
[18]]
Coolabahapple (
talk)
12:06, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete – Definitely a hoax.
This is the list of Andersen's works published in 1837, and "Several Things" is nowhere to be found (nor in any other year). Amazing that the hoax lasted for more than five years! --
Danmuz (
talk)
14:14, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Several Things is a
book written by the
Danish fairy tale writer and fablist
Hans Christian Andersen. It was published in
1837, just after he completed
The Princess and the Pea. Several Things is a multifaceted work, dealing with a multitude of subjects, several of which are of interest to the public at large. It was not well received upon first publication. The critics had several issues with the work, including offense taken at its questionable content and long apocryphal sections dealing with apparently nothing at all.
The last sentence strongly indicates that this is a hoax.
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(disclaimer: only read the abstract) I stand by my "passerby" analysis in
that similar AfD, although here the asteroid is the sole subject of the scientific article. I do not think this constitutes "significant coverage" of the subject as per
WP:NASTCRIT #3, because obtaining a spectrum could be done (barring technical limitations) for any asteroid, and I see no evidence than this one in particular has different properties. Yes, the resulting spectrum is detailed information that is unknown for other asteroids, but it is not significant coverage. A passerby in the street could be interviewed by television to comment on political issues and his political views may be quite unique, a short interview would still not make him notable because it could have been done with any other passerby in the same format even if the results (political views expressed) would have been different.
Tigraan (
talk)
09:01, 2 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I disagree, scientific facts about asteroids are important. Also,
WP:Notability_(astronomical_objects)#Dealing_with_minor_planets recommends redirection rather than deletion. There's also a lot of infobox data in the article that should be kept somewhere. And the WP:Astro project should be notified of AfDs such as this. Their practice has been to keep all low-numbered asteroid articles. --
120.17.55.175 (
talk)
23:21, 2 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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Comment. This article is about both a book and the film based on the book, both of them by the notable Israeli director
Yaky Yosha. The film seems to have had several different English titles, including not only Still Walking (which is also the English title of a 2008 Japanese film) but also just plain Walking, which of course is even harder to search. IMDb uses the transliterated Hebrew title "Od ani holeh"; the last word is spelled "holekh" in a few sources. The article includes a link to a review of the film in Haaretz, but that review is no longer on line
[19]; for what it's worth, that review does show up in the results of a Google search of the Hebrew names for the film and director <"עוד אני הולך" "יקי יושע">. I didn't immediately see other clearly RS reviews in the Hebrew search, but I hope someone with better Hebrew will take a look. --
Arxiloxos (
talk)
15:18, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment - Just an observation: It does seem to have an amazingly low hit-count (8 hits in 90 days) and no editors seem be actively working on it.
HullIntegrity\
talk /15:03, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Delete-Not notable, I thought this was a different game at first when I saw the deletion (don't know which I was thinking of) and was going to say keep but this is not it.
Wgolf (
talk)
19:25, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment: Has been covered by Tech In Asia.
[20] Not sure if it counts as a reliable source. Also covered by plenty of Thai gaming news blogs, which probably don't count.
[21][22][23] (Pinging
Czar per above request.) --
Paul_012 (
talk)
17:19, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Tech in Asia's editorial policy says that
every article is run past an editor, though they also want to break stories
within minutes, so it's unclear what degree of oversight is had. I'd say it's gray in the
reliability department, but I'm leaning towards okay since their work is cited by their video game reporting peers. The rest are more clear-cut: compgamer
appears to have a print presence but I can't find mention of it in English video game reliable sources, coregamerth
appears amateur, and Juropy
doesn't have an editorial policy. I still don't see enough to qualify a dedicated article for this topic. czar⨹08:50, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Delete, no 3rd party reference, just an official website and three lists of unclear unsorted items allegedly related to the subject in some undefined way. –
Be..anyone (
talk)
15:52, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - software article of unclear notability, lacking significant coverage in reliable sources. Refs provided are company sites, not
WP:RS, and a search turned up no significant independent coverage. Article was created by an
SPA as possibly promotional.
Dialectric (
talk)
01:17, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Last AfD was 1 delete, 2 merge to
Royal Geographical Society#History and 2 keep, so overall no consensus. I hope that after new references have been added, and after not attracting a large number of comments last time, we can establish consensus now, especially as this has been left with a notability tag since
Alynna Kasmira added it 7 years ago. I couldn't establish that it meets
WP:ORG or
WP:GNGBoleyn (
talk)
11:22, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Redirect to the history section of
Royal Geographical Society, where it can be a sourced sentence, I looked at the previous AFD, and one editor objected on the grounds that this Association predates the Royal Geographical. I see that as no hindrance to merge, many fading institutions merge into thriving institutions that postdate them. This article contains a real tidbit, that soneone who stubbles upon the Association might want to look up, making the redirect useful.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
17:29, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep as the article with Oncenawhile's additions make it perfectly fine and useful by itself. Regarding the RGS, I believe that the current wording "the Palestine Association was integrated into the Royal Geographical Society" is factually incorrect, which I will argue on the talk page.
Zerotalk23:49, 1 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep - As in the previous AfD I see no valid reasons to delete it. Acceptable sources exist proving it existed. Obscurity is not a reason to delete. And as I said in the first AfD, because its existence PREDATES the founding of the Royal Geographical Society, any content related to its activities would be off-topic for the Royal Geographical Society article and so a merge with it would be unsuitable.
Tiptoethrutheminefield (
talk)
02:47, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep even if it was in some manner iterated or brought under the RGS umbrella, it was sufficiently distinct and important under its own name. DGG (
talk )
03:38, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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Prodded by
Aerospeed, but has previously been to AfD. 2 AfDs have ended in no consensus, in large part because of a lack of comments. For this reason, it's sat with a notability tag on it for 7 years. Hopefully this time enough people can analyse it for us to get a resolution. If not, I think if there's been no consensus to delete at a third AfD, we should remove the notability tag.
Boleyn (
talk)
11:07, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - Thank you
Boleyn for nominating these articles I didn't feel confident in nominating myself. I PRODed this article due to notability and promotional issues. The notability issue is easier to prove, as the article has only one source, that of its own website. All other sources I've found so far clearly show the product exists, but not showing why it's notable. I found
this article that does a good job describing the article, so this might be somewhat notable. The majority of the article is promotional, however, considering that there are phrases such as "The main advantage of Optimus mini three..." and "they do give an accurate look at the final design." Only the first paragraph is sourced, and it only gives info on when the product was released and what it is used for. The rest is promotional and unsourced. Overall, this looks more and more like a promotional article, and should be deleted. Aerospeed (
Talk)
11:27, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Withdrawn by nominator: No consensus can likely be reached while this remains in the news. Bringing it up when we move to the inevitable next circle of tragedy may be better.
'''tAD''' (
talk)
15:30, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Strong keep As per WP:Oneevent, when a significant event occurs, and someone is a significant participant in that event, a separate article is usually appropriate. That is certainly the case here. Other cases:
Timothy McVeigh,
Anders Behring Breivik and
Christa McAuliffe, all known for single events. I strong !vote to keep this article, and lets let it develop.
Juneau Mike (
talk)
10:40, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
From what I see on the accident's page, it is not officially confirmed that he did this, or that he did it deliberately. Could be a case of waiting
'''tAD''' (
talk)
11:08, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep per above. Hopefully once all these tags have gone cluttering the page we can actually get down to the task of improving the article.
Ulcerspar12 (
talk)
11:07, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep: subject of massive media attention, clearly meets the notability criteria.
WP:ONEEVENT has an explicit exception for just this type of case: "If the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, a separate article is generally appropriate." What makes this event particularly significant is the relationship of pilot mental health to air safety, and the details of his health and personality are highly relevant to the matter. --
Impsswoon (
talk)
11:10, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Note: Well, we are just learning about Lubitz. Current consensus among relevant law enforcement is that he committed this act. If the original "newpage" template had been adhered to, additional notability would have been established. But another editor jumped the gun and began an AfD before that new page process had even played out for a few hours. In reference to your comment, it is clear there would be neither a McVeigh page here, nor a Breivik page, had they not committed acts of terrorism.
Juneau Mike (
talk)
11:52, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
The tag refers to the quality of the article, not general notability. If I were deleting it for its formatting, voice etc., I would be jumping the gun.
'''tAD''' (
talk)
12:43, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
With sincere credit given to your very prolific and good faith edits here on Wikipedia, which are well established, where you jumped the gun was starting an AfD discussion on a brand new article that for less than 3 hours had included the "newpage" template. A mere 12 or 24 hours of good faith editing by multiple editors would have established this pages position and related rankings as notable. You starting an AfD on an article still in the new page process seemed very hasty. I say all of this with respect, as you are fantastic editor. Despite our one disagreement here, I respect you and your contributions greatly.
Juneau Mike (
talk)
13:50, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep - As sources begin to characterize him as a mass murderer
[24],
[25], the subject is in the McVeigh realm. Just let the article stand now, otherwise we'll just be back here in 2-3 weeks, there's no sense in maintaining bureaucracy for the sake of the bureaucracy.
Tarc (
talk)
12:50, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Merge for now. Maybe we'll learn more about him in the coming weeks that warrants a longer, more complete article. But now, this article shows that he is famous for just one thing as it is. McVeigh and Breivik had trials, Lubitz the SilkAir Pilot, the EgyptAir pilot, and other examples died right when they did their deed. We haven't determined that his story is more "worthy" of an article than the others.
SOXROX (
talk)
13:08, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep as Lubitz now appears to be a notable mass-murderer. There is already much personal media coverage that goes well beyond the scope of this one massive event. Reports suggest that the consequences of his alleged mental condition and actions as a result, will change world-wide airline screening of pilots and policy regarding cabin-crew in the aircraft cockpit.
Fg63 (
talk)
13:34, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep for now. While it may emerge that all relevant details of this man are included on the accident page and then we can have this discussion, it was absolutely a bad faith edit for the nominating editor to blatantly ignore the good faith "newpage" template.
Prhartcom (
talk)
14:04, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep per arguments given by
Juneau Mike. There is also a need for the public to know the reasons as to what caused Lubitz to take such action, so as to enhance ways to improve a person's mental health. -
Mardus (
talk)
14:58, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Snow keep We will never have consensus here, or possibly any time in the next 4 weeks. I wish I had studied the rules a bit better before nominating this.
'''tAD''' (
talk)
15:00, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Another note It is always very nice to see editors I respect, but have a good faith disagreement with, make a comment such as yours above. Yes, I have been deeply involved in this debate. But in the meantime, I stayed involved, actually starting the article
Anchorage Fire Department, also in the newpage phase, while all of this was going on. My point is, don't take any of this personally. We all want to make Wikipedia a better place. And we are. You are a fantastic editor. I personally despise the notability policy, but I cherish consensus. We all want a great Wikipedia!
Juneau Mike (
talk)
15:15, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep significant person whose actions have turned the spotlight onto the issue of mental health of pilots. it is leading to significant debate on the issue and changes in pollicy.
[26]--
Wikireader41 (
talk)
15:04, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep.
User:ed_g2s is wrong on two counts: First, as per
WP:OSE and
WP:INN, "non-inclusion is not an indication of non-notability. [...] To suggest that a particular article is non-notable because no other similar articles exist would stunt the growth of Wikipedia, and do more harm than good", and second, the purported perpetrator in the
EgyptAir Flight 990 case,
Gameel Al-Batouti, does have his own article.
User:Smooth0707's personal opinion about glorifying perpetrators is irrelevant to the discussion. The question to be decided is whether current policy mandates the retention or deletion of the article. The policy,
WP:1E, sounds pretty unambiguous to me on this question: "If the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, a separate article is generally appropriate. The assassins of major political leaders, such as Gavrilo Princip, fit into this category, as indicated by the large coverage of the event in reliable sources that devotes significant attention to the individual's role." In all media that I follow, the character, history, mental state, health problems, social relations etc. of Andreas Lubitz are currently the top item being reported on, far exceeding other aspects of the crash. I don't see how following this policy could lead to anything other than keeping the article.
Joriki (
talk)
15:13, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete. The problem is not the block quotes (well, it shouldn't be--anyone who thinks that that is a reason for deletion needs to stay away from AfD), but the lack of reliable secondary sources, as is pointed out by the nominator and others. It is possible that this is potentially a highly notable topic, but the article (in writing and referencing) is so poor that it's not possible to state this with confidence.
Drmies (
talk)
02:56, 5 April 2015 (UTC)reply
This article should be deleted for the following reasons:
The vast majority of the article is block quotes that fall under 2 areas: The 1st block quote area is that of Sunni scholars reproducing the hadiths contents. This is block quoting primary information, but presenting it as the words of these scholars (which it isn't) to deceptively give the impression that this issue is worthy of being an article because notable scholars quote it. These scholars have only quoted it (as numerous scholars will quote any single hadith regularly), rather than mention it any further and the fact that they don't actually discuss their interpretation of the hadith is evidence that it lacks notability. By the standard set by this wiki article, we can expect many thousands of hadiths to have their own articles because many scholars have quoted single hadiths. The 2nd block quote area is a single shia scholar named Husain Mohammad Jafri. In fact, his quotes make up the majority of the article and it is easy to see that this articles creation was driven by a sectarian propaganda agenda.
One of the references is Answering-Ansar.org, which is clearly a shia sectarian site, whose scholarly credentials (hence eligibility to be cited on wiki) are questionable. This again supports the suspicion that this articles creation was driven by a sectarian propaganda agenda.
The articles lack of notability seems to have been unwittingly alluded to by the editor/s with the words "Although the narration is prominently quoted and referred to, it is not given any formal name, in contrast to other hadith such as the Hadith of the pond of Khumm or the Hadith of Qur'an and Sunnah." But what the editor's won’t admit is that this hadith has no name exactly because it isn't historically notable to begin with. Hence, it was left to the editor/s to give us a name for this notable hadith...how fitting! Shia are obviously, for sectarian purposes, opposed to every succession of Muhammad that precluded the appointment of Ali; however, their position is well covered in numerous other wiki articles that have the requisite notability – unlike this obscure hadith.
Apart from block quoting the actual text of the hadith and the opinions of 1 shia scholar, the article makes mention of no other opinions on the hadith, whether Western, Sunni, or any other scholarly opinions. This simply adds to the lack of notability of the article.
Strangely, we are not even told where the source of this hadith even comes from i.e. which hadith collection, such as Sahih Muslim, Sahih Bukhari etc. So if we are not told of the hadith source then we can't even determine whether this hadith is authentic or fabricated. If it is fabricated then creating a wiki article about it would probably be unwarranted without specifying its authenticity, since this can fool people by giving them the impression that it must be automatically authentic because it is accepted on wikipedia.
It can be seen under the Contested deletion section of the articles talk page that any suggestions that the article can be improved have not materialised. I believe this has not happened simply because the ability to improve this article is not possible due to its lack of noteworthiness.
Due to these reasons, i believe that this article should be deleted as an ill-attempted piece of sectarian propaganda, that when narrowed down contains nothing more than the quoted hadith and one scholars opinion of it.
58.106.235.75 (
talk)
09:31, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment I lack any knowledge whatsoever of islamic texts, so I will refrain from !voting. However, I would note that if this thing is prominent in Shi'ite sources and disregarded / not even mentioned in Sunnit sources, it is not ground for deletion under
WP:NPOV (
Jesus is, according to most Christians, the son of god, and it is not POV to discuss it at length, although other religions disagree).
The way the nomination is written leads me to think that nominator has an axe to grind against that branch of islam; it does not mean their points are invalid, though.
Tigraan (
talk)
10:31, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
@
Tigraan: Needing to resort to massive block-quoting of 1 shiite scholar does not count as "prominent in Shi'ite sources". Also your analogy of Christians and their view of Jesus isn't accurate with shiites and their views of a Sunni hadith (if that hadith is even authentic - which hasn't even been proven, or mentioned). What would be a more accurate analogy would be how Catholics would view an alleged Oriental Orthodox historical episode. But i respect your otherwise balanced approach.--
58.106.235.75 (
talk)
13:42, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose Article subject is very important as it deals with succession of Holy Prophet(ص). This is one of the defining events/reasons/theories behind the classical Shia-Sunni split. What I see from article is that it list at least 10 references which for its length is not bad. Yes, it has block-quotes but IMHO opinion it is better than POV/OR. Maximum what can be done is that article is tagged for expansion/rewrite having good lead section summarizing event-cause-effects but it should noway be deleted. And at last, to me the AFD request seems to highly POV push aiming at suppression of minority/alternate viewpoint.--
121.244.54.32 (
talk)
08:54, 30 March 2015 (UTC)reply
As i have shown in my arguments, there has been ample time and opportunity to expand the article with the relevant info that is needed to stave off the articles deletion; however, this has never been met. And in my defense: the only suppression that is being sought is that of content that is far below the standards of Wikipedia. My arguments are detailed and clear and in no way evade what is required of an AfD nomination.
58.106.235.75 (
talk)
13:53, 30 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete All of the content are just combination of primary sources. The subject is not notable enough to have material from secondary sources, if you can add something, it's OR or primary. succession of Umar or Uthman are far more notable and controversial :)Ladsgroupoverleg12:31, 30 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep I have no personal view on the relative merits of the various schools of Islam, but the advocates of each have over many centuries attacked whatever supports the others, and I think this might possibly be the case here. I am not qualified to discuss the various sources on authenticity of particular hadith, but , as in all cases of religious controversy, I think we need as broad an approaches possible. Something is not un-notable because you disagree with it. DGG (
talk )
19:42, 30 March 2015 (UTC)reply
@
DGG: First of all, when you want to add your opinion please show the common courtesy of adding your comment at the bottom of the page and especially not in between an editors comments - which i have now rectified. Wikipedia isn't an arena for prima donnas. Secondly, if you really read my reasons for deletion you will find that i have clearly not argued that it is un-notable because i "disagree with it."--
58.106.235.75 (
talk)
00:04, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep per DGG. Regardless of the truth of the matter, such issues are important to many millions of Muslims, and so there appears to be sufficient notoriety to make it notable.
Bearian (
talk)
21:47, 30 March 2015 (UTC)reply
@
Bearian: I don't see that as being strong reasoning. You made no defense of the fact that the article is only made up of primary sources and 1 shiites quote. That doesn't scream notability and proves that it isn't really that "important to many millions of Muslims." Just because we are told something is important by some random person, doesn't mean it actually is. I would have expected more sound reasoning from someone of your level of education.--
58.106.235.75 (
talk)
23:53, 30 March 2015 (UTC)reply
@
Bearian: For someone who has studied in law you seem strangely unable to grasp the meaning of very clear arguments. This has nothing to do with "knowledge of sharia and hadith" (where did i ever tell you that!) and everything to do with wiki policy regarding notability.--
58.106.235.75 (
talk)
00:08, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Could you please calm down a little? Even if you are not aware of it, you sound extremely aggressive.
And yes, the issue has something to do with knowledge of islamic texts. A layman such as myself will have no idea what and who is a reputable source, and what level of sourcing can be expected. A seemingly reasonably-made website or publication could be widely disregarded as junk theology by everyone in Egypt or Iran, and I would not know it.
Tigraan (
talk)
08:56, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
@
Tigraan: If responding to peoples comments by highlighting the real issue is considered "extremely aggressive" then people have really become too soft and sensitive. Again, you talk about "knowledge of islamic texts" when the real issue here is notability. Quoting the primary source under numerous scholars (to give the illusion of notability) and adding 1 shiites views on this primary source doesn't count as notable. This article should really be a sentence or paragraph in the Abu Bakr article in the section of his succession—not a lone article.--
58.106.235.75 (
talk)
10:07, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
" I would have expected more sound reasoning from someone of your level of education", "Wikipedia isn't an arena for prima donnas", "For someone who has studied in law you seem strangely unable to grasp the meaning of very clear arguments" are all sentences that could be taken off your comments without damaging the arguments. Did you really need them?
Again, knowledge is required to assess notability. If the aforementioned "numerous scholars" are the most prominent shi'ite theologians, their voice makes the text they discuss notable, just as well as a scientific theory is notable if all major scientists in the field start to discuss it. On the other hand, those scholars could be a bunch of nobodies that operate on youtube and to whom none listens; then,
WP:FRINGE would clearly apply if the topic at hand was scientific. Deciding whether it is notable needs to assess the sources, and assessing the sources needs some moderate knowledge of the topic, which I lack.
Tigraan (
talk)
11:07, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
@
Tigraan: If you paid the slightest attention to my arguments it is quite clear the scholars i am referring to are Sunni. I don't know where you got the impression i was referring to shiites. To give you an analogy of my argument that many scholars simply quoting a primary source doesn't equate to the level of notability to warrant a separate wiki article: If i give you a handful of Protestant scholars that simply quote 1 paragraph from 1 of Martin Luther's books then i add 1 quote of a Catholic scholar who discusses that 1 Martin Luther quote, does that make that quote notable enough for me to then give it a name and create a wiki article for it? If so, then i will surely be a busy person for quite some time, seeing what innumerable articles i will create for wiki. Maybe i will find a shia hadith that is quoted several times by shia (say let's call it "hadith of the corruption of the Quran) then i will add 1 Sunni scholar who has talked extensively about it...and magic, we will have 1 more article for wiki.--
58.106.235.75 (
talk)
13:09, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete The issue can be covered in other articles with more contextualizing. The large block quotes in this article are not the method of Wikipedia, and it looks unlikely that we could cover this topic with non-quoted text.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
03:41, 1 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I think that
this section of the Abu Bakr article and
this section of the Umar article more than amply cover for the succession issue (as its notability deserves). The event of succession may have some notability (though i don't believe it has the level to have its own article, just like we don't have articles for most contentious successions), however, the hadith does not have this requisite notability.--
58.106.236.196 (
talk)
00:59, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete Not encyclopedic. We don't have articles about the genealogy of
Mary filled entirely with block quotes from the
Protevangelium of James, roughly the equivalent of this page.
Dawah is not appropriate on Wikipedia.
E.M.Gregory (
talk) 10:15, 1 April 2015 (
""Delete"" Too much reliance on block quotes needs better independent secondary sources possible to improve but not sufficient secondary independent sources
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GNG supercedes any SSG WP:NBASKETBALL is secondary to the general notability guideline and if he met the sport-specific guideline but didn't meet GNG it could still be deleted.
Rikster2 (
talk)
23:33, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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This article came up at
WP:COIN, and appeared to be a promotion for a movie in development. The only sources are sites affiliated with the movie. The people mentioned on those sites as being involved with some murder cult don't come up in Google searches. There are no relevant news items. There's nothing in reliable sources. Or even semi-reliable sources. Something that newsworthy which happened in 2011 would have news coverage. Looks like
WP:HOAX and
WP:AD. Thanks.
John Nagle (
talk)
07:45, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Speedy delete as hoax (
WP:G3): if, as the article claims, some of those people were convinced of a crime in 2011, surely it would be easy to find a link to the judgement. The absence of such sources constitutes in my opinion "blatant and obvious disinformation". As people may disagree with this
argument from silence, I did not put the Speedy deletion tag myself.
Tigraan (
talk)
10:47, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete as a hoax and a gross misuse of Wikipedia. Adverting for a supposed mockumentary film. Source even explains lack of coverage by reliable sources. No reliable evidence found that the film or the event is real.
• Gene93k (
talk)
17:37, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete. regardless of the irrelevant delete !vote of the apparent SPA, there actually is no evidence of notability . Not yet notable. DGG (
talk )
03:26, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete. This article has a weird history.
Created with quite a bit more content, much of which was later removed, mostly by IPs -
these edits particularly noticeable, as they remove the Allozyne connection, which the same IP
also removed from the Allozyne article. Edit summaries indicate removing inaccurate information, yet it's clear from trivial googling that she was a founder and hard to conceive of that statement as a BLP issue. Don't know what's going on there, but in any case being a cofounder of a smallish biotech that just got sold off for scrap doesn't really clear the notability bar.
Opabinia regalis (
talk)
18:39, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete. The sole source mentions the subject only trivially, and doesn't give evidence for notability. As O.r. states, the past history of the article also does not show notability. —
David Eppstein (
talk)
18:45, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Note: This newly registered account has left the very similar deletion rationales (almost every one a "strong delete") on dozens of AfDs in rapid fashion. Likely he did not read any of the articles (one he said fails "BLP" was a company, for example). --
ThaddeusB (
talk)
15:44, 2 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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Keep This is not dictionary content; it's weights and measures, which is the stuff of an
almanac. It's not clear why the nomination raises
WP:V as all content is sourced; did the nominator not perform any checks himself? And merger isn't deletion - see
WP:SK and
WP:NOTCLEANUP.
Andrew D. (
talk)
07:22, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep: this has been totally rewritten since its pathetic beginnings as one of the Cardarelli follies (he no longer even gets a mention), and is now just about article-worthy. I've added OED's take on the word, and added it to
Bag (disambiguation) and as a "See also" to
Bag.
PamD11:57, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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The result was keep, relative to
WP:ANYBIO, per awards the subject has received, which also demonstrate that the subject has "made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in his or her specific field". It is arguable that the sources presented in the first AfD discussion and herein do not comprise significant coverage about the subject, except for one. For example, two have almost identical content, are quite short and are basically "about the author" texts written by the publisher (
[28],
[29], two only have passing mentions (
[30],
[31]),
this only has a passing mention, and one has significant coverage (
[32]). Overall, it's arguable that the subject may not qualify per
WP:BASIC alone. Additionally, it's possible that the subject may qualify per
WP:AUTHOR, criteria #1, but this potential was only touched upon herein with the link to Worldcat that shows books the subject has authored or co-authored, and would require further qualification to be proven.
Furthermore, the !voting spree by User:Dormantos was done in a rapid fashion (see
User contributions in Wikipedia namespace). It's possible that they're a fast reader, but it's also possible that they didn't read the article or check for sources. Also, there is some evidence of copy/paste !votes performed by this user without article/source consideration, such as at
this AfD discussion. North America100011:29, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Non-notable. This page has "references" but they are just links to Google Books search results where the subject's name turns up in the book once. These, and links to the subject's own books, are the bulk of search results. It's unlikely that references could be found to make this subject meet notability criteria.
Fisheriesmgmt (
talk)
03:31, 13 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep - I agree with Michig, nothing has changed. However if kept, the article needs c/e, correct sourcing and improvements overall. But that in itself is not a reason for deletion. --
BabbaQ (
talk)
20:32, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Note: This newly registered account has left the very similar deletion rationales (every one a "strong delete") on dozens of AfDs in rapid fashion. Likely he did not read any of the articles (one he said fails "BLP" was a company, for example). --
ThaddeusB (
talk)
15:33, 2 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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I'm not sure this is even real. It's completely unclear whether this is trying to describe a single campus containing a group of schools at various levels, or one particular school within a group. Undocumentable: the website is the only source, and well worth looking at
[33], for it contains no usable information whatsoever. Check in particular the "Instructors" page
[34]: it consists of photos of 4 different people all with the same name, and all described as "Lorem Ipsum is simply dummy text of the printing and typesetting" DGG (
talk )
04:26, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
You are unfair, it is the "instuctors" page, and it shows a polymorph "chamistry" teacher. Well, the website is obviously in construction with stock photos and such.
Now for the serious stuff: "huge" internet presence (linkedins and such) but no evidence at all of physical presence. Hence, straightforward delete unless sources are found (I would not say "better sources" in that case).
Tigraan (
talk)
10:54, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - what do they think Wikipedia is, that they expect us to publish an article about an institution which cannot even sort out a website or spell "instructor"? At least it has given me a smile, and I now know where to apply when I want a degree in Lorem ipsum. But, to be clear, even if the website were all glossy and finished and plausible-looking, we should not consider an article until there are references showing
significant coverage in reliable, independent secondary sources, and I don't see any.
JohnCD (
talk)
20:39, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment: as I expected, a Tineye search finds that the pictures of the happy smiling students and the "instuctors" are stock images such as
this and
this.
JohnCD (
talk)
08:51, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete -- This clearly fails the sourcing and significant coverage requirements for
WP:ORG. And an alleged 30-year-old academic institution (or "one of India's leading group of institutions.") with an unfinished website and a Wikipedia editor with the same name as the school founder creates a lot of doubt. —
CactusWriter (talk)16:45, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment I received on my talk page:
sir/madam the work in website is going on and it will be finished as soon as possible, then all the images of various schools will be uploaded. I request you sir to kindly wait for some time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sagarsachan12 (talk • contribs) 18:00, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
@
Sagarsachan12: I brought it here because that is were the discussion about the article deletion should be. I am not impressed, since even if the website was perfect and had a higher
Alexa rank than Wikipedia itself, there still would not be any evidence out there that the Chitra group of Institutions is notable or even exists. (The website could pass, but that's another subject.)
Tigraan (
talk)
21:32, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Keep. I fully understand why the article has been nominated for deletion, as it certainly did not appear to satisfy GTG in its previous shape. However, I am afraid the rationale for deletion seems rather superficial to me. Being "rather standard" is a subjective statement and certainly not a valid reason to delete provided that independent and reliable sources exist, and this avenue has been covered by numerous articles on the Turkish Cypriot national press, some of which I have already added and some that I will be adding shortly. Of course, one could say that as Northern Cyprus is a small country, and any avenue in the capital would be bound to have some coverage on the press, but the amount of publicity and discussion centered around this one certainly exceeds any of the others by far (for example, Girne Avenue, which is the main street of the walled city) and meets the relevant criteria, while other avenues are only subjects of brief announcements. While of course, when compared to major cities, the avenue would seem standard and even dull, the definition of "standard" varies according to the location; it is the heart of the modern part of the capital of a nation, and it is certainly not "standard" in that sense. --
GGT (
talk)
16:19, 12 March 2015 (UTC)reply
More sources have been found and added to the article. By now, it must be clear that there are indeed a good number of articles in the Turkish Cypriot press beyond daily municipal announcements about the avenue, and that it does satisfy the GTG criteria due to the existence of multiple, reliable, independent sources with either the avenue being the main topic or receiving significant coverage. --
GGT (
talk)
20:59, 12 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep per sources provided, I'm not entirely sure whether we need an article on what seems to be essentially a High Street but meh sources have been added so can't really see the harm in keeping. –
Davey2010Talk23:45, 13 March 2015 (UTC)reply
I have considered a possible merger to quarter articles, but the current material included would probably be too much for them, and it has room for more development. There seem to be many other
precedents anyway. --
GGT (
talk)
14:10, 14 March 2015 (UTC)reply
@
The Banner: Sure thing, but could you please specify/exemplify your concerns, by, for example, giving a sample sentence from the article? I have played a little with the ambiguous tone in the intro but I fail to see what more could be done. I also fail to see how neutrality in style and tone relates to notability (GNG) and the AfD, but I truly appreciate the time spent for critical input. --
GGT (
talk)
14:46, 14 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Indeed, I still fail to see anything. If it the phrase "center of entertainment" that sounds dubious, that is generally common in sources. Beyond that, I truly see nothing that would constitute a neutrality problem. And anyway, if there is such a problem, IMHO it would be more constructive to talk about it on the talk page with precise arguments and if necessary, tag the article, as stylistic problems are no grounds for deletion. --
GGT (
talk)
20:25, 14 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Further information regarding history from a reliable book about Nicosia has been added to the article. The source talks in depth about the avenue in the 1950s. --
GGT (
talk)
17:24, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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• The person has created, or played a major role in co-creating, a significant or well-known work, or collective body of work. In addition, such work must have been the subject of an independent book or feature-length film, or of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews.
I have no opinion on this article or its success/failure in meeting Wikipedia inclusion guidelines, but think that inclusion in the NLA catalogue is not a claim for notability. As the national library, a copy of every work published in Australia is legally required to be submitted to the NLA (see
Legal deposit). --
saberwyn05:09, 14 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak Delete per
WP:ONEEVENT. The stories in the Independent and Daily Mail are primarily about her and satisfy our reliable sources guideline (okay, the Daily Mail only just), but they're both essentially about the one topic. Agree with
User:Saberwyn above that merely being included in the NLA catalogue is not an indicator of any notability as self-publishing a pamphlet will essentially get you there.
Lankiveil(
speak to me)11:28, 30 March 2015 (UTC).reply
keep leaving aside the irony in the fact that this self-absorbed Aussie first came to wide attention by writing a book (I added some of the press, profiles that the book - Published by Random House - generated to the page) about how she quit the rat race because wanted to leave career ambition behind, then further furthered her ambitious career by wrote another another that also garnered attention
[35], and now appears ot be so determined ot leave ambition behind that she has written her own Wikipedia page. As I said, leaving all that behind, it does appear that she has garnered sufficient attention with her job-quitting and books to pass
WP:GNG - with articles in the British, New Zealand, and Canadian as well as Australian press, moreover she keeps herself in the public eye by being a columnist.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
15:32, 30 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Hello Wikicology, thanks for your feedback on the article about CliSAP. I understood that the relevance of this research association hasn't been stated and proved clear enough. Sorry for that. I tried to make it more visible by reorganizing the sources. In general, I can imagine that outside Germany a research joint venture on climate change does not seem to be a big deal. But in fact, the excellence initiative of the German Government has been investing a lot of money since the research funding project startet in 2005. As a result of a nation-wide competition there are Grad Schools, Universities as a whole for realizing innovative future concepts and Clusters of Excellence funded. Altogether 4.6 billion Euros are spent. To me, this looks relevant. What do you think? Every chosen project has already proved to be relevant in that context. As it is all about research within international networks, and the language of research is English, I definately do see the relevance in having an article about CliSAP in the English-speaking WP. Another thing I'd like to point out is that climate change is a key challenge of humanity and that information about research being done on that topic should be present in the web, and especially here. I would be happy to continue the discussion here. And I am grateful for help in improving the article.
KlimaCampus (
talk)
14:47, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete per
WP:ORG, which I read as meaning that an article about climate change in the main press that includes ", scientist XXX from Clisap said", such as
this one, is not enough at all. I could find no independant sources (ie, that are not publishing a press release).
Tigraan (
talk)
10:56, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep Major interuniversity center of several major German institutions. I'm included to treat this in a separate article, since theres n single place to merge to. DGG (
talk )
03:21, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
The third-to-last source provides nontrivial coverage of the subject (based on searching for "CliSAP"). I am not sure about the depth of coverage in the last two sources because I cannot read the language.
Per DGG, since this is a major university center of several major German institutions and there is no single place to merge, I'd prefer keeping the article over deletion.
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While Boston is certainly large and prominent enough a city that its city councillors would satisfy
WP:NPOL #3 if they were substantive and properly sourced, city council is not a level of office that confers an entitlement to keep an article that's this badly sourced and contains no real substance beyond an acknowledgement of his existence — it's a level of government where the substance and quality of sourcing constitutes the difference between a keep and a delete. Delete, without prejudice against recreation in the future if it can be written and sourced properly.
Bearcat (
talk)
23:00, 23 March 2015 (UTC)reply
"Linehan's name game". The Boston Globe. November 22, 2014.
Irons, Meghan E. and Ryan, Andrew. "Council head now says raise can wait: Before expected vote, Linehan cites ethics panel advice". The Boston Globe. October 7, 2014.
Ryan, Andrew. "Linehan proposes 29% raise for City Council". The Boston Globe. September 16, 2014.
"Linehan stirs up resentments with proposal to honor Bulger". The Boston Globe. August 15, 2014.
Baker, Billy. "Linehan to skip St. Patrick's parade: City Council leader invited to Ireland". The Boston Globe. February 13, 2014.
Irons, Meghan E. "Linehan elected council president". The Boston Globe. January 7, 2014.
Irons, Meghan E. "Linehan poised to take council reins: Appears to have secured backers". The Boston Globe. December 10, 2013.
Irons, Meghan E. "Linehan, Lee: The rematch: Incumbent city councilor talks up his accomplishments as a 'persistent' rival aims to finish what she began 2 years ago". The Boston Globe. October 24, 2013.
Irons, Meghan E. "Councilor Bill Linehan pulls out of District 2 debate". The Boston Globe. October 24, 2013.
Ryan, Andrew. "Song in back pocket, Linehan steps up: Councilor warily prepares for a St. Patrick's Day tradition in Boston". The Boston Globe. March 16, 2013.
Cassidy, Chris. "Linehan sings praises for St. Pat's Day fest". McClatchy - Tribune Business News . February 17, 2013.
Irons, Meghan E. "Linehan stands by his council redistricting plan". The Boston Globe. November 29, 2011.
MacQuarrie, Brian. "Linehan keeps District 2 seat in recount: But councilor's redistricting plan draws fire". The Boston Globe. November 24, 2011.
Wedge, Dave. "Bill Linehan, recount behind him, vows more focus on schools". McClatchy - Tribune Business News . November 24, 2011.
Ryan, Andrew. "Linehan is facing his first challenge". The Boston Globe. September 26, 2011.
Van Sack, Jessica. "Southie reigns supreme ; Linehan captures Kelly seat". Boston Herald. May 16, 2007.
Slack, Donovan. "Passoni, Linehan reshift focus - Begin groundwork for council seat". The Boston Globe. April 19, 2007.
Slack, Donovan. "Passoni, Linehan top race for council". The Boston Globe. April 18, 2007.
Johnson, O'Ryan. "Passoni, Linehan to battle for council seat". Boston Herald. April 18, 2007.
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Sourced exclusively to her radio show, a blog connected with that radio show and a Twitter account connected with the radio show. The only one that even works is the Twitter link.
Greykit (
talk)
14:51, 12 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Delete Fails
WP:SIGCOV. I'm not finding coverage of any kind beyond YouTube videos uploaded by the show's host. All existing sources in article link to show's dead website. Levdr1lp /
talk11:59, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Redirect to
Today FM, which broadcasted the show (with the history preserved under the redirect) in lieu of deletion. I was unable to find coverage about the subject. But the history should be preserved under a redirect to
Today FM so any useful content can be merged to
Today FM.
No prejudice to undoing the redirect if editors find significant coverage about The Eamon Lowe Show in the future.
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Keep Admittedly the film did not reach broad distribution. It will not qualify as
WP:NFILM. Because this is pseudo political in nature, it did receive coverage amongst the various special interest elements that are portions of its subject matter. There are currently 20 sources, many through the communication media of these special interest groups. While most are not mainstream media, they show significant discussion of the film to establish
WP:GNG.
Trackinfo (
talk)
17:46, 12 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment: most of the current sources appear unreliable or based upon press releases, but IF the any of the reviews or commentary listed
HERE can be found and offered as citations, I'd suggest a weak keep. Schmidt, Michael Q.05:44, 13 March 2015 (UTC)reply
It wasn't easy to find for sure, and the quote listed was not precise, but I have now posted the exact quotes and sources for the second and the fifth comment on that list into the article.
Trackinfo (
talk)
21:27, 15 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete. I was about to close this and realized it sounded eerily familiar. With thanks to Trackinfo and MQS, I do not consider the sourcing strong enough (in terms of reliability) to warrant a "keep" vote.
Drmies (
talk)
03:01, 5 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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Listing for deletion due to a lack of non-trivial coverage from reliable publications. Subject was a contestant on the reality television dance show
Nach Baliye 6 and is married to actress
Kanika Maheshwari, though notability is not inherited. Searching for sources
WP:BEFORE this nomination resulted in passing mentions focusing on the subject's wife and minor tabloid coverage. Please contact me on my talk page if I have overlooked a source which would cause this to pass any relevant notability guideline. Regards,
Yamaguchi先生 (
talk)
17:34, 12 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Keep I have added several new references to the article including about one of his permanent exhibitions of Noah's Ark located at the Milwaukee Jewish Community Center.
[36] and
[37] I have also trimmed down sections in the article to make it not look like an advert or resume, but more like an article for a notable public and visual artist. I am sure there are more sources available if anyone cares to take the time to search about more of the various exhibitions. With sourcing from multiple sources this article subject has crossed the threshold of notability.
WordSeventeen (
talk)
03:48, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
CommentWordSeventeen: Recommend removing the sections which are not backed by citations such as Volunteer Experience and adding citations to Publications section. If this looks like less like a resume I would vote to Provisional Keep.
@Robtalk17:22, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete The artist does not meet the requirement of works in major public collections, Nor has there been substantial critical comment. What the article does have is an excess of self-ppromotionalism, over-extended listing of minor events in his CV, and the general impression of autobiography. DGG (
talk )
17:52, 4 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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Unreliable and PR sources only; apparently a promotional article. Books are claimed, but none of them is even in Worldcat. DGG (
talk )
17:42, 12 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Hi and thank you for your interest in the article; I've cited several magazines that are established publications in regards to bodybuilding such as Muscle And Fitness and Bodybuilding.com, can you please advise on how to make the article better? I do not understand what you mean by "Promotional Article"? As for the books, you are correct they are books that were distributed digitally only, should I go ahead and edit those out?
Cada mori (
talk)
17:51, 12 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Ref 2 is an author blurb he wrote himself in the first person, Ref. 3 is an advertisement for his program, complete with product listings, Ref 4 is a list of results that does not mention him, Ref. 5 is a publicity blurb. Ref 1. is the only even conceivably usable source at all, but it's an interview where he says whatever he wants to, which is straight PR. The refs considered all in all are promotional refs that prove this a promotional article. DGG (
talk )
03:03, 13 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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No indication of
notability; the only references that aren't by Genis himself are opinion pieces by personal acquaintances. Even if his friends write columns for The New Yorker, they still don't become secondary sources about Genis. My own searches didn't turn up anything useful beyond some local coverage of Genis' arrest in 2003.
Huon (
talk)
00:10, 20 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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keep or merge (though I'm not sure where to put it). There are tons of hits on this and it appears all over the place in the scholarly literature. It's simply a stub that has never been fleshed out.
Mangoe (
talk)
14:12, 12 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete : Yes, of course such behaviour should be mentioned in the article on dolphins (etc.); but to separate it out like this almost guarantees it will not be read. If it simply duplicates as per Liam987, then delete anyway.
Imaginatorium (
talk)
09:00, 13 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Redirect to
Cetacean intelligence#Complex play, where it is mentioned. The phenomenon is obviously verifiable in many sources; our article on
dolphins has a dolphin bow riding as its lede picture. GScholar shows 607 hits for "bow riding". So deletion is out of the question. Until someone gathers the reliable sources to write a solid article on this topic, redirecting to
Cetacean intelligence#Complex play, where it is mentioned, seems the best course. I'll also note that there is also a form of human bow riding, (riding on the bow of a boat) that is usually
dangerous and illegal. --
Mark viking (
talk)
03:16, 25 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Contested PROD. Concern was Article about a footballer who fails
WP:GNG and who has not played in a fully pro league. PROD was contested based on speculation as to future appearances, which is never grounds for notability.
Sir Sputnik (
talk)
06:18, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep - unnecessary nomination that completely defies
WP:COMMONSENSE. If nominator really felt article shouldn't be here yet, they could have simply moved it to DraftSpace. This player has, as far as I can tell, played every minute of Oklahoma City preseason, and has been scoring goals. There's no question that he won't be in the starting line-up when the season starts in the few days. While with some of these recent nominations of USL players, it's somewhat questionable how long before they'll make a fully professional start. In this case however, short of death or injury, it's going to be 7 PM Central Daylight Time on March 28. So perhaps any closing admins can simply hold this open for a couple of extra days until 7:01 PM Central Daylight Time on March 28 before wasting our time moving it to Draft Space.
Nfitz (
talk)
19:45, 21 March 2015 (UTC)reply
No it doesn't.
WP:CRYSTAL notes that Individual scheduled or expected future events should be included only if the event is notable and almost certain to take place. In this case we have a player who as far as I can tell has played every minute of the preseason and is scoring goals. It's almost certain that he will be in the opening day line-up and that event would be notable—as such
WP:CRYSTAL is not applicable. As this AFD shouldn't normally close until March 26, and the season starts March 28, it's entirely reasonable to simply hold open the AFD for a few extra hours to ensure that he is in the line-up. Your argument completely defies
WP:COMMONSENSE, and you seem to be trying to enforce a non-existent rule.
Nfitz (
talk)
14:05, 22 March 2015 (UTC)reply
WP:CRYSTAL also says It is not appropriate for editors to insert their own opinions or analyses. Predictions, speculation, forecasts and theories stated by reliable, expert sources or recognized entities in a field may be included. So yes your argument does violate the guideline and it also violates
WP:OR. The football project does not keep articles in anticipation of notability. It's whether or not the player is notable at present time. And this player is not notable. –
Michael (
talk)
21:05, 22 March 2015 (UTC)reply
I have inserted no text in an article that constitutes
WP:OR. Go read
WP:OR it states that Wikipedia articles must not contain original research. There is no content in that article, nor has there ever been, that says he is starting. There has never been a violation of
WP:OR and shame on you for suggesting otherwise! To suggest that I've violated
WP:OR is a violation of
WP:AGF! I'm merely suggesting that we delay closing the AFD for a few hours because it's blatantly obvious that this player will be either starting on March 28th. Also you have commented that WP:CRYSTAL also says It is not appropriate for editors to insert their own opinions or analyses. Predictions, speculation, forecasts and theories stated by reliable, expert sources or recognized entities in a field may be included. I have no idea why you are commenting about this, because there is not one word in the article that this applies to. I suggest that you focus on the article here, and apply
WP:COMMONSENSE rather than making up untruths about what is in the article!
Nfitz (
talk)
22:56, 22 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Whether or not
WP:CRYSTALL applies here is a moot point, because
WP:CONSENSUS very clearly does. This is a perennial issue and has always been decided the same way. The inadmissibility of speculation as to future appearances as a source of notability is one the strongest and long standing consensuses concerning the notability of footballers.
Sir Sputnik (
talk)
01:54, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
I don't see the relevance of
WP:CONSENSUS to my request to wait until 7 PM Central Daylight Time on March 28 to close this discussion, because it was very clear that Dalgaard would be in the starting line-up. I do apologize though, as they don't appear to have started until 7:07 pm. Surely a request to wait a few extra hours to close the AFD is only
WP:COMMONSENSE given that it saved us the trouble of undeleting this. What I don't get is why we waste our time deleting a player who very clearly is part of the first team days before the season starts instead of applying
WP:NORUSH.
Nfitz (
talk)
02:04, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Of the ten references, nine are documents authored by the developers. The tenth is a paper defining the term "code smell", and does not mention the article's subject at all. I couldn't find any
reliable sources covering the subject in depth.
Psychonaut (
talk)
14:55, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
QualityGate article correction I have deleted the 10th paper (code smell) and I have expanded the list of references, so it has 11 general reference now. I have changed the picture too, which has made by me.
RitaBartfai87 (
talk)
11:31, 26 March 2015 (UTC)reply
I'm afraid your changes haven't addressed any of the problems raised in this nomination. (In fact, it could be argued that they've made it worse, since now all the references are to documents authored by the developers.) In order for this article to be kept you need to show that QualityGate has been the subject of in-depth coverage in multiple sources entirely unaffiliated with the developers. Please refer to
Wikipedia:Notability for further details on the sort of sourcing we require. —
Psychonaut (
talk)
12:53, 26 March 2015 (UTC)reply
I've deleted some of the references, but the others I think should be ok:
Tibor Bakota, Péter Hegedűs, István Siket, Gergely Ladányi, Rudolf Ferenc: "QualityGate SourceAudit: A Tool for Assessing the Technical Quality of Software": this paper was presented in a conference in Belgium, so it should be a reliable source.
Rita, there was no need to delete any of the references; in many cases it is acceptable to use primary sources to establish certain facts about a subject. The problem is that such references cannot be used to establish the notability of the topic, which is a prerequisite for having a Wikipedia article in the first place.
With respect to the specific references you list above, I'm afraid you overlooked the part where I said that the sources need to be "entirely unaffiliated" with the developers. This means that the articles and wikis produced by the developers are disqualified, even if they were published by a third party or include third-party contributors. Regarding the GITEX and QA Testing Tools sites, you are apparently conflating the publisher and the authors. The publishers of those sites may be independent of the developers, but the text on the pages you link to is word-for-word advertising copy from the QualityGate website. GITEX is a trade fair; it doesn't write its own copy for its participating vendors. QA Testing Tools is a software directory which also doesn't employ its own writers; vendors submit their own software descriptions. —
Psychonaut (
talk)
11:01, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete. I would add to the previous reasons that conferences made by people affiliated with a company/product/etc. do not magically become secondary sources because some third party pays for them. However, the author made a real effort to provide sources, so he should not be
bitten too hard. Please also note that
the use of non-English sources is acceptable if needed, although I personally disagree with that guideline.
Tigraan (
talk)
11:20, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete The sources provided do appear to be primary upon examination. Insufficient coverage (no coverage that I could find) in reliable secondary sources.
Nwlaw63 (
talk)
13:51, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Keep To claim there were no sources at the time of nomination is a major exaggeration. The article cited an LA Times article that made significant mention of Green. I have added others. His articles have clearly had influence.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
12:50, 20 March 2015 (UTC)reply
CMT - One article which mentions him in passing dose not make him notable per
WP:NACADEMICS. To be notable he must have "made significant impact in their scholarly discipline, broadly construed, as demonstrated by independent reliable sources". and "received a highly prestigious academic award or honor at a national or international level." The LA Times article only mentions in one paragraph that he is a a history professor at BYU and he wrote a 2001 essay on Muslims and Mormons.---
ARTEST4ECHO(
Talk)15:58, 24 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment -- The number of publications mentioned in the article does not inspire me with confidence, but I am reluctant to vote on LDS issues.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:20, 21 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete. I looked at the LA Times article and I would not call its mention of Green significant. There were a few sentences (so it's not outright trivial either), but the article was not about Green. He and his work were only briefly mentioned. Several such pieces would "add up", but I don't think one is enough.
Agricola44 (
talk)
15:50, 31 March 2015 (UTC).reply
Keep Inadequate article for notable professor. He's been professor and chair of the history department at a major research university, and that indicates his peers in the academic world consider human expert in his field. His The Tunisian Ulama 1873-1915: Social Structure and Response to Ideological Currents. Leiden: Brill, 1978. by the major europeanacademic publisher in the field is in almost 200 libraries,significant for this subject. It's even been translated into Arabic as العلماء التونسيون / (al-ʻUlamāʼ al-Tūnisīyūn) DGG (
talk )
03:12, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete. essentially promotionalism. There might be an opportunity for a nonpromotional article,b but it would mean starting over DGG (
talk )
03:06, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
A computer recycling company that appears to have generated some press for itself through a thorough media campaign, but does not, in the end, appear all that notable. All of the citations arise from stories that the company itself either wrote, or generated through press releases.
WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!!12:19, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Note: This newly registered account has left the very similar deletion rationales on dozens of AfDs in rapid fashion. Likely he did not read any of the articles (one he said fails "BLP" was a company, for example). --
ThaddeusB (
talk)
15:34, 2 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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Contested PROD. Concern was Article about a footballer who fails
WP:GNG and who has not played in a fully pro league. PROD was contested on the grounds that he had played for Brondby in the Danish Cup. However, since the match in question was a against a lower non-fully-pro-league club, it does not confer notability.
Sir Sputnik (
talk)
17:16, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
I understand your point, and thats not true. Im from Denmark, and I do know danish football very well. The club became a professional club in the winter 2014, when the old
Brøndby IF sportschef
Ole Bjur came to the club, after he was fired in BIF because of due to economic reasons. He invested money, and gave all of the players in the squad new professional contracts.You can read about it on the source, i had linked.[1]
But back to the topic. I think that is a notable article, because he began training with the first team squad when he was only 15 years old, and got his debut when he was 16 years old. Sorry, if my english isn't the best.
Fodbold-fan (
talk)
19:36, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
I have seen many other articles with footballers, who was written about, just when they got debut for the first team even if it was in a cup match, so i do not understand why this is a problem. I would agree, if it was a friendly match or something like that. But it was in a cup match, against a team, who once played in the
Danish Superliga.
Let me start by saying that
other stuff exists is not a valid argument. Each article is to evaluated on its on merits. I have not seen the other articles you refer to, but there is a distinct possibility that some of them should have been deleted as well. The notability issue here stems from point 2 of
WP:NFOOTBALL which says Players who have played, and managers who have managed in a fully professional league, will generally be regarded as notable. In the case of Denmark this means a match in the Superliga (see
WP:FPL for details). While not technically included in the wording of the guideline, there is a long standing consensus that the guideline also applies to competitive matches between clubs that at the time played in fully pro leagues. The idea being that it would be pretty silly to have a match between say Brondby and Randers to confer notability in one competition, but not in another later the same season. Deletion discussions on:
Edson Almeida,
Milancy Khongstia,
Alexandru Chiriță, and
Jamie Harney are recent examples of this rule being applied both the keep articles that meet its criteria and delete articles that don't. This article falls into the latter category. Since his cup appearance was against
Fremad Amager, who do not currently play in the Superliga, neither the
WP:NFOOTBALL guideline nor the cup exception applies. I hope that makes things more clear.
Sir Sputnik (
talk)
20:26, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
I do stil understand your point, but i have to maintain, that he has played for the first team and played a official match for the first team. It wasn't a friendly match, so you can say what you want, its stil a professional and official debut match that he did play. He has also played several matches for the youth national teams of Denmark. I can see, that those other players you linked haven't played any nt games. He still has played this official match for Brøndby IF, and im sure, that it isn't the last one, he is a huge talent in Denmark. If we delete it, it will be 100% sure, that he will be created again soon. I think that he will get many matches in the next year. Or probably be loaned out.
Fodbold-fan (
talk)
20:49, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - Player fails
WP:NFOOTY as has not played in a
fully professional league, nor senior international football. No indication of any other achievements that have garnered sufficient, significant coverage to satisfy
WP:GNG. His cupappearance for Brondby was not in a match featuring two teams from FULLY professional leagues. Regardless of his talent and whether he may or may not play in future, currently he does not satisfy any guideline for notability.
Fenix down (
talk)
16:57, 20 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Move to Draftspace - he's sitting on the bench for fully professional matches, so he's close. Likely will be notable soon, so let's put the article in draft space where it can be prepared and moved over when he makes a fully professional start (against a fully professional squad).
Nfitz (
talk)
23:47, 21 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep Application of NFOOTBALL is incredibly nitpicky in this case. It is close enough and even arguing about it is a waste of time.
Cptnono (
talk)
18:23, 31 March 2015 (UTC)reply
This application is a fairly
WP:NSPORT is a fairly well-established consensus, and exists for a reason. The early rounds of national cup competitions where non-FPL clubs can play against FPL clubs generally receive far less coverage than the later rounds and are frequently used to test out young players who are by no means ready to play in a league setting yet.
Sir Sputnik (
talk)
18:33, 1 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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I'm not necessarily saying it should be deleted, but I think it should be looked at. It's questionable whether this meets notability guidelines at
WP:CORP. Coverage does not appear to be significant in independent media. Also, there is some evidence that employees of the company are the primary authors, and that it reads like an
WP:ADVERT. Thanks. —
Amakuru (
talk)
18:40, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete The only notable reference is Advertising Age. It announces the beginning of a business. Time will tell if it achieves notability, but for now it lacks notability.
Tapered (
talk)
03:13, 29 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Delete - no evidence of any notability. Reads like an autobiography of a person who believes being awarded a patent is sufficient notability to be included here. VelellaVelella Talk 18:49, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - the person has a patent for a device that the article doesn't explain what it does. That's not notable enough, unless their alledged success has good secondary sourcing. As a sidenote, I also added
WP:BLPPROD to the article.
Joseph2302 (
talk)
18:55, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Article violates
WP:NPOV,
WP:GNG,
WP:NOTNEO.
Article is a partisan attempt to take a factual admission and inject pov.
The Colbert Report was an excellent show, but it was a comedy talk show and I find it unlikely that anyone who has actually seen it could truthfully consider one of Stephen's (albeit hilarious) segments as meeting
WP:RS.
"I'm not a scientist" isn't a 'phrase'. It's a fact. These politicians, like nearly every politician in congress, are not scientists. Over 95% of congress (yes, including Democrats) *should* be saying "I'm not a scientist", because it's the truth.
"I'm not a scientist" violates WP:Neologism. It being referred to as a 'catchphrase' in an article or two, nor its use by 4 people, doesn't make it widely used.
At the most, the specific claims made by each individual politician should be in their respective articles. Including it here only serves as an attempt to associate claims (without providing any context for the comments) of a few people to a wider group. ―Padenton |
☎18:50, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep. A perfectly legitimate topic for an encyclopedia article. Secondary sources have reported on the topic, and we quote the secondary sources; this is exactly how neologisms get articles on Wikipedia. There is no rule against their inclusion, and we only delete non-notable neologisms. Whether coverage of the phrase is fair or not isn't the point. Significant coverage in reliable sources is the issue at hand. If the article isn't neutral, then it can be fixed through normal editing. It sounds like you disagree with the conclusions of the sources. If so, maybe you should write a blog post. 13:44, 20 March 2015 (UTC)— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
NinjaRobotPirate (
talk •
contribs)
Comment. I don't care about the sources. My issue here is about this absurd article which cannot possibly be made into anything encyclopedic, and its only possible purpose is as a PoV fork with the same level of integrity as the memes that come through my Facebook news feed. I already suggested by all means putting criticisms in each of the named politicians (for which there are WP:RS available) regarding these comments, and the specific claims that each of them made. But of course, then WP editors don't get to malign the entire
Republican Party through the use of an
association fallacy.―Padenton |
☎16:27, 20 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete: Not a dictionary, etc. This really does not appear to be a topic at all, it's just a phrase that has been used by various people. Strictly speaking, it's not a neologism, because it doesn't mean anything different from what the words mean naturally. It (I mean the literal title "I'm not a scientist") also is not a fact, any more than "I am a cat lover" is a fact, and in fact this really isn't anything at all.
Imaginatorium (
talk)
15:18, 20 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete – This will never be anything other than a vehicle for heaping (richly deserved) ridicule on certain Republican politicians. It passes GNG with flying colors, but it's just not an encyclopedic topic. –
Margin1522 (
talk)
18:30, 20 March 2015 (UTC)reply
That's for !votes without a reason. I've given a reason. Can you or anyone else suggest some way that this article could be rewritten from a neutral point of view, without losing the crucial point, namely that it is strange for a politician to make this innocuous statement in a context that demands another kind of statement? Do we have articles about statements that are notable because they are inappropriate to their context? –
Margin1522 (
talk)
04:22, 21 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete. The article is basically a
WP:COATRACK for political criticism. Just because it has been occasionally noted in reliable sources that some politicians have mocked other politicians for using this phrase, I don't think that makes it a notable phrase or an encyclopedic topic.
Gnome de plume (
talk)
19:56, 20 March 2015 (UTC)reply
These sources (some of which are indeed already cited in the article) seem to be to be sufficient to support notability. While I wouldn't object to a proper merge/redirect (to
climate change denial, etc.) the content should be preserved.
Neutralitytalk17:30, 21 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete: I don't see anything that suggests significant coverage or anything even remotely close to "social or historical significance". It's simply not notable at this point.
Deli nk (
talk)
13:56, 22 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment by nom (I'm in favor of Delete/Merge): @
Bearian: Not appropriate. Argument from ignorance and other articles on Rhetological fallacies do include examples, but all examples are abstract and merely used to explain the concept. These are articles on philosophical concepts, to inject needless political issues is not appropriate. It's also not actually an example of an argument from ignorance, because it doesn't qualify as an argument in any of the sources in the article, nor the ones that
Neutrality listed above. It's a
Statement_(logic). And if you read the sources, the only conclusion that is ever drawn from this statement is that they are not qualified to debate climate change, etc. You may not like it, but it's not an argument, and it's not an example of Argument from ignorance, because not being a scientist is merely their response, not their reason for denying climate change.
As I suggested in my nomination, the appropriate handling of this is that the specific comments by each politician should be placed on the article about that politician, without attempting to ascribe the words of one politician to others. I would also not be opposed to the content being moved to climate change denial, provided that it is not a
Straw man as it is in this disgusting article, attempting to put the words of a small handful of politicians into the mouths of many. ―Padenton |
☎21:32, 23 March 2015 (UTC)reply
@
Bearian: They aren't making an argument or a point by saying "I'm not a scientist", at least not in the articles I've read and interviews I've seen. They say the words because they are true, they're politicians, not scientific experts. An argument generally follows in the interviews, for example in
[39], it quotes Boehner as saying “I’m not qualified to debate the science over climate change. But I am astute enough to understand that every proposal that has come out of this administration to deal with climate change involves hurting our economy and killing American jobs.” The argument here isn't that the science over climate change is incorrect, false, a hoax, whatever. The argument in this quote is something along the lines of "a proposal to deal with climate change shouldn't be one that hurts the economy and American jobs." "I'm not a scientist" isn't actually part of that argument (paraphrased or not), Boehner's conclusion isn't based on the premise of him not being a scientist, but based on the premise, true or not, that 'past proposals made by the admin. would have killed jobs and hurt the economy.' ―Padenton |
☎22:31, 24 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete. The news coverage is minimal and does not indicate any degree of notability or political significance - it is typical of a passing little political attack that never got much traction. The article, with its clear problems with POV, COATRACK, and FORK as noted several times above, comes across as a shallow attempt to make something out of a non-issue. The fact that the article must rely on references that are opinion pieces (from a single political perspective, at that) gives it away.
Edgeweyes (
talk)
14:30, 24 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep. I can support merging this somewhere, but
Argument from ignorance doesn't seem like an appropriate target to me. What does this have to do with not seeing kangaroos in the back seat of your car? This is definitely not a
WP:content fork of that article; where does
argument from ignorance mention climate science? This topic is far more notable than a substantial portion of Wikipedia's
BLPs.
Wbm1058 (
talk)
12:35, 26 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment Just did a major rewrite. All the quotes were removed because they were criticisms of the Republicans and their phrase, which tilted the article to POV. The links to 'logical fallacy' pages have been deleted--they implied that the phrase was a logical fallacy. Readers can still connect to a page on fallacies from a link in the article itself. This article is noteworthy because the phrase has received extensive coverage in major media.
Tapered (
talk)
05:01, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak keep: I am convinced this is notable
WP:WORDISSUBJECT, but the POV issue is huge and seemingly unsolvable. Basically, that line of defense is completely untenable (no, you are no scientist, but you are supposed to take decisions, so if you have no expertise yourself tell me where you take it from), as are many other politician cheap tricks ("I would not comment on that trial while it is underway, because I respect
presumption of innocence"). It seems however that this line is disproportionately used by politicians from one side, so exposing it for the bollocks it is (as an article that is more than three sentences long is going to do) might be seen as political POV from the other side.
Tigraan (
talk)
11:36, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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Delete I don't think suffering a few power outages makes a company notable. They are quite frequent occurrences for web hosting companies. And just because they use a notable person (Pamela Anderson) in one of their advertisements, does not make a company notable. There is nothing else relevant about this run of the mill web hosting company.
Tmsevre1 (
talk)
17:19, 24 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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The result was keep. Compelling arguments that the GNG is met are presented. Note that the article needs serious work--pruning and de-fluffing.
Drmies (
talk)
03:03, 5 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Subject of article does not appear to be notable according to the terms of
WP:POLITICIAN. He was an appointed (not elected) deputy politician of a US city (not a state-wide office nor federal), and article references do not look like they qualify as independent third-party sources with editorial oversight. I was able to find one 4-paragraph article from Jet magazine from April 22, 1976 which mentions Jones becoming deputy mayor, but no discussion in wider media and nothing more in depth. KDS4444Talk23:37, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Hi
User:KDS4444, I completely understand your notion that deputy politicians of cities shouldn't qualify as being notable simply due to their political poisition. As the original creator of the article, I just want to mention some points that can hopefully contribute to the debate over the articles' deletion. First and foremost, the creation of this article is part of a class and I plan on contributing continuously to the page. I realize that as of now I rely heavily on primary sources and possibly shouldn't have gone live with the article, but there do exist independent third-party sources that cover Jeep Jones and his relevant importance to the city of Boston. In regards to April, 1976, the time of the school busing debate in Boston, Jones played a role in mediating tensions within the city. I've found a few published books thus far in a general search that mention his role in the racial issue, including Rebound!: Basketball, Busing, Larry Bird, and the Rebirth of Boston By Michael Connelly (2008) and The Soiling of Old Glory: The Story of a Photograph That Shocked America By Louis P Masur (2008). I really do appreciate your comment and concern as this is my first experience with the creation of an article. I request that this page be kept 'alive' until further, more in-depth edits can be added at which point I'd accept deletion if consensus dictates so. I do not ask that the "request for deletion" tag be removed, I just wanted to add my input to the talk page. Let me know what you're thinking about this! Thanks
Matt rodgers2 (
talk)
13:18, 24 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep The article needs more references, and it needs to lose a few puffery terms like "outstanding". But he certainly looks notable to me. Granted, he does not meet
WP:POLITICIAN, but he almost certainly meets
WP:GNG - among other things for being the first African-American to hold a number of city positions. Serving on the Boston Redevelopment Agency would not be notable by itself, but serving on it for more than 30 years and chairing it for 24 of them sounds a little more significant. The city thought he was notable enough to name a park after him. --
MelanieN (
talk)
01:41, 26 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete Not notable to the point of being an article. Some articles might benefit from this information but I don't see this topic meeting GNG
Bryce Carmony (
talk)
00:44, 28 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Some reliable sources may not be easily accessible. For example, an online source may require payment, and a print source may be available only in university libraries or other offline places. Do not reject sources just because they are hard or costly to access. If you have trouble accessing a source, others may be able to do so on your behalf (see
WikiProject Resource Exchange).
The sources listed above cannot be rejected "just because they are hard or costly to access" (per the policy I quoted above).
Delete Deputy major is not notable, so the article are no t significant. This is essentially political promotionalism. DGG (
talk )
02:59, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment: That's kind of an irrelevant argument, actually - because nobody has claimed that deputy mayors are notable, or that this subject is notable because he was deputy mayor. We all agree that he fails
WP:POLITICIAN. The discussion here is whether he meets the more general notability standard,
WP:GNG, by having received significant coverage from independent reliable sources. (I am also impressed by the city naming a park after him. Apparently the city of Boston thought he was notable.) --
MelanieN (
talk)
23:34, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment -- In full disclosure, I'm assisting with the class in which this student is participating. I can comment re: political promotionalism: the subject of this article is not involved with the creation of this article. In addition,
WP:NRVE states reliable citations only need to exist, even if they haven't made it into the article yet. (Obviously, getting them into the article is the best option.) And, thanks to
KDS4444 and
MelanieN for your many comments and help here and elsewhere!
AmandaRR123 (
talk)
21:43, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
This sounds great,
AmandaRR123. And that reliable citations exist is good to hear! But that claim, without actual supporting evidence, doesn't allow anyone to
WP:VERIFY it or independently assess the subject's notability. The terms of article creation are quite clear: "All material in Wikipedia mainspace, including everything in articles, lists and captions, must be verifiable". Also, from
WP:NRVE: "However, once an article's notability has been challenged [as it has here], merely asserting that unspecified sources exist is seldom persuasive".
Hirolovesswords has offered a list of sources which might provide evidence of notability. The sources look reliable (The Boston Globe is a newspaper with sufficient distribution and editorial oversight), but with only the limited information so far provided (i.e, with no page numbers and ideally some links to the archives of the newspaper itself) and without including them in the article to know what parts of it are supported by which citations, we cannot tell if this coverage is anything more than
WP:ROUTINE which would not be evidence of notability. I am willing to concede that the article's subject might, in fact, be a notable politician... I am only asking for the article to meet the basic standards for inclusion on Wikipedia, one of which is evidence of notability as demonstrated by the inclusion of multiple independent reliable sources so that this can be verified. --KDS4444Talk23:03, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I hear you on not being able to see these historical newspaper sources! It's one of the most frustrating things, working with these historical topics -- not being able to easily share these sources. I'm adding a few citations as "further reading" linking to the Globe archival snippet online. Not perfect, but gives more of a sense of the scope of coverage?
AmandaRR123 (
talk)
01:40, 4 April 2015 (UTC)reply
AmandaRR123: The Boston Globe provides on-line access to all of its articles dating back to 1872, with a search page located
here. We don't need to be able to read the full article, we just need to see a link that points to it— the articles you are referring to must also exist in the electronic archive, yes? Because then all you need to do is fill out a newspaper citation template located
here and use the URL of the electronically archived page to fill in the URL field, and ta da! Citation complete! KDS4444Talk05:51, 4 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep In addition to The Boston Globe articles listed above by Hirolovesswords, here is an article from the Boston Business Journal that is already in the Wikipedia article:
Consider this
article from the Boston Globe, June 9, 2005: Peabody to name new city clerk. It reads, "The Peabody City Council at its meeting tonight is expected to select a successor to City Clerk Natalie Maga, who is retiring effective July 1. Maga has been clerk since 1977." That is the entire article. Although it comes from a well-known and highly reliable source, it does not make either Natalie Maga nor her successor notable because it is routine information akin to a marriage announcement or an obituary. Every city in the U.S. likely makes announcements when a city official retires or is hired, but that does not make the subject notable. What we need in order to retain this particular article is something that provides in-depth coverage— not just a retirement notice, no matter how reliable the source. — KDS4444Talk05:37, 4 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I was the one who suggested to AmandaRR that if there wasn't currently time or opportunity to cite additional sources in the text, they could be listed as "Further Reading" so that they can be evaluated for purposes of this AfD. These are not all "routine announcements"; in fact, considering the non-notable nature of his deputy mayor position, he got a surprising amount of coverage during his time at city hall. And it's not just a matter of counting the sources; it's also what they SAY about him. Examples already in the article: the Business Journal article says he was "a central figure in the building renaissance that has transformed Boston’s skyline." The book Rebound describes him as one of the city's "most prominent black leaders."
[49] IMO the newspaper and other citations currently in the article add up to GNG, both in number and in content. --
MelanieN (
talk)
09:41, 4 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Agreed. The quotes about him in books and major newspapers strongly demonstrate that he is notable. That Boston named a park about him also strongly indicates that he is notable.
Cunard (
talk)
10:23, 4 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep - Pretty clearly a delete if we stick to the POLITICIAN high bar (insufficient elected office). However, the fact that he is the namesake of a Boston park tips me the other way in this specific instance.
Carrite (
talk)
17:09, 4 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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Delete Does not appear to be notable, since most of the sources are either unreliable for one reason or another, or cover the singer solely in the context of the band. I'd argue for a redirect, but one already exists under
Yook Sungjae.
Spirit of Eagle (
talk)
03:10, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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Keep: Ah, OK. So why are they special? I think they made a lot of inventions we technical guys now use in daily live e.g. they invented the "hand held spectrum analyzer" (before we needed to carry heavy and bulky ultra high cost units) and in 2015 they invented the first (and only) RF video camera. Boy, i think THAT is something.
They are also great in antenna techniques: They invented a lot of unique antennas (look at the LPDAs and magnetic antennas they offer) and push the "state of the art" every year with new exiting stuff so far not know on the market.
Oh, and not to forget: They invented the first Polyphase REALTIME spectrum analyzer in a hand held form factor. That for sure should be another "significant or demonstrable effect" in "science" and "technlogy".
DELETE Please note that all the "keep" recommendations are in effect, "They're important keep them," without one shred of backing evidence. The references are almost exclusively technical papers which say very little about Aaronia. No notable second of third party references documenting notability.
Keep: Look at the updated Aaronia Wiki page for a lot of second or third party references.
Comment Yep. I looked. Aaronia is tangential in several of the references. Only 2 of the references can be considered reliable articles that might meet
WP:NOTE criteria. I invite the admins, or whoever makes the choices on these questions, to look through the refs and decide accordingly. Again, most of the "keeps" have, for practical purposes, said, "I know, listen to me."
Tapered (
talk)
08:25, 30 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete It is possible that some of the products are notable, but it can't be told from this article, which is a product catalog. No information about size of the firm, or market share. No objection to starting over. DGG (
talk )
02:57, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep Product catalog is shown clearly on the Wikipage.
"No information about size of the firm, or market share." This should be of no relevance for keep or delete but you are free to add those information. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
80.187.110.234 (
talk)
19:20, 4 April 2015 (UTC)reply
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The result was Speedy close. AfD is for articles that should be deleted. If you think this should be merged somewhere or other this is the wrong place to discuss it.
Michig (
talk)
07:17, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Novel that has been long tagged for notability, from the looks of it-it can be merged into either the author or the previous book it is based off of
Wgolf (
talk)
00:01, 27 March 2015 (UTC)reply
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