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This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Social science. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

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Further information
For further information see Wikipedia's deletion policy and WP:AfD for general information about Articles for Deletion, including a list of article deletions sorted by day of nomination.


Archived discussions (starting from September 2007) may be found at:
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This list includes sublists of deletion debates on articles related to language and history.

See also: Science-related deletions and Medicine-related deletions.

Social science

Xuanchuan

Xuanchuan (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I don't see the need for this article to stand alone, the current article could well be merged back into propaganda in China in several parts, some of which could be split out and put into Wiktionary. So I think it would be better to merge into Propaganda in China#Terminology. ときさき くるみ not because they are easy, but because they are hard 01:54, 14 April 2024 (UTC) reply

I agree. Especially if you are the one to do the merger - you are a good and careful editor. JArthur1984 ( talk) 17:30, 18 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Oppose owing to unnecessary wordiness. Merging Propaganda in China (7726 words) and Xuanchuan (1560 words) would result in 9286 words, which exceeds the Article size guidelines. Keahapana ( talk) 20:12, 18 April 2024 (UTC) reply
@ Keahapana: This is not a major problem, and given that a lot of the content is in fact duplicated and a significant portion of the xuanchuan content is unsourced, it is entirely possible to trim it down to meet the standard. ときさき くるみ not because they are easy, but because they are hard 05:53, 20 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗ plicit 04:26, 21 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to see if there is more support for a Merge
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:43, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Merge to Propaganda_in_China#Terminology as proposed. This overlaps with that section, and not enough here to make it work doing a fork. There are entire paragraphs in this article that have nothing to do with China or Chinese which can be deleted. Oblivy ( talk) 15:36, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Social science Proposed deletions

Language

List of alternative names for oceans

List of alternative names for oceans (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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WP:NOTDICTIONARY PepperBeast (talk) 12:32, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Woke Mind Virus

Woke Mind Virus (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Feels entirely like WP:NEO. Half the usage section is just dedicated to Elon Musk (at the time of AFD nomination).

Look I understand Go woke, go broke exists, but that feels like WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Is every popular iteration of a phrase invoking the ideas of wokeness going to have its own article?

According to the article, "Vanity Fair has titled whole sections of stories under the "Woke Mind Virus" label." This isn't actually a label that is selectable/catagorized/tagged like "politics", but a custom label for one article.

I do not doubt the phrase's usage in popular media and by influential people, but it is essentially the same thing as woke. I could go on, but I think this can be deleted and redirected to woke. Alternatively, this content can be merged into woke as its own section with the criticism. -- Classicwiki ( talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 01:53, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Keep, since WP:NEO is cited, let us see what it says, Articles on neologisms that have little or no usage in reliable sources are commonly deleted, but in this case this phrase is very widely cited across an enormous variety of reliable sources. The phrase probably should also be mentioned at the woke article and other mentions should be added and included, but a page for Woke Mind Virus itself makes sense given the sources as broad and significant as they are. Iljhgtn ( talk) 02:27, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
@ Iljhgtn, yes it is popular term, this is already addressed. WP:NEO also says, Some neologisms can be in frequent use, and it may be possible to pull together many facts about a particular term and show evidence of its usage on the Internet or in larger society. This is not in question. I do not doubt it will be utilized in large portions of media and scholarly works. Until it is shown to be its own distinct concept, it is essentially a branch term used to criticize wokeness. There is a criticism section in woke that this neologism can direct to in my opinion. Currently, Anti-woke redirects to woke. Anti-woke is an older term than woke mind virus and used it much more media/scholarly works. WMV is just a substitute term for being against wokeness (or anti-woke). Alternatively, I think a separate article that incorporates reliable secondary sources say about the term or concept, not just sources that use the term titled something along the lines of "Criticisms of woke/wokeness" or even "anti-woke" could also be appropriate, where WMV redirects to. I do not see the point of a standalone article about Woke Mind Virus. -- Classicwiki ( talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 02:57, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete or merge/redirect no evidence that this neologism deserves a stand-alone wikipedia article. ( t · c) buidhe 07:39, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Keep: Passes WP:NEO and has coverage by reliable sources. BlakeIsHereStudios ( talk | contributions) 16:04, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Selectively merge and redirect to woke. There's no separate subject here -- it's the same "woke" pejorative discussed in that article. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 16:19, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Weak Redirect, maybe i'm just biased because this is an inherently silly sounding phrase, but I don't see how it differentiates from the term " Woke" so a redirect there would be optimal. Samoht27 ( talk) 16:50, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Merge/redirect to Woke, it's just a slight variation of the exact same thing. Di (they-them) ( talk) 16:58, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Comment: A couple people have suggested a merge or redirect, but I would like to point out that this term "woke mind virus" actually has quite substantial coverage of its own differentiating it quite a bit from "woke" and therefore a mere mention of this term on that page seems to be inadequate. This source mentions the term as distinct but was early in coverage so does not yet mention what WMV means. This source mentions the WMV phrase in depth by itself completely independent of "woke". This source mentions the history of the term, especially as used specifically by Elon Musk since around 2021 and in reference to San Francisco and includes some of the defining language that separates and distinguishes this phrase at is popularly understood by sources, Despite his repeated use of the phrase, the precise meaning of “woke mind virus” has been difficult to pin down. Musk told Bill Maher during an interview on HBO: “I think we need to be very cautious about anything that is anti-meritocratic, and anything that … results in the suppression of free speech. Those are two aspects of the woke mind virus that I think are very dangerous.” This source speaks uniquely of the WMV by saying much about Musk's use of it from a critical perspective. This source again uses both "woke" as well as WMV and refers to them as distinct terms with their own meanings. This source predominantly focuses on just the "woke" phrase but has an important passing mention of WMV, though obviously passing mentions in general are not to carry weight towards an AfD consideration. This source covers the phrase and the Netflix mention with some detail. I believe the above, and much more can be found with fairly little work and effort actually to support an independent page for both the WMV phrase as well as woke and other phrases mentioned by other editors. Iljhgtn ( talk) 19:19, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • A lot of these sources are not reliable, though. ( t · c) buidhe 15:14, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    This article from The Wall Street Journal leading on this subject in a very strong WP:SIGCOV manner. This article from Rolling Stone discusses the term/phrase with both Musk as well as Bill Maher's involvement and contributions. This article from fact-checking website Snopes cites the Webster dictionary definition of " woke" independent of the subsequent mention of "woke mind virus" which the article then explores in depth further on going back to its seeming origins (related to Musk at least) from 2021, The first mention of the words "woke mind virus" that we could find in Musk's feed showed up in December 2021. There is much, much, more out there on the internet as well that can be easily found. The "no evidence" claim seems to have not sufficiently considered WP:BEFORE. Iljhgtn ( talk) 19:37, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    Per WP:NOPAGE we also need to consider if this topic benefits from being a stand alone article rather than being covered in the woke article. Evidence for this theory is what I think is lacking. ( t · c) buidhe 06:37, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as the phrase is not really notable and similar phrases already exist. It's just a variation of the term woke. There exists multiple variations of this same term and they do not have their own unique articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Asaduzzaman Khan Shahriar ( talk • contribs) 11:44, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep I understand the concerns of the UNDUE weight given to the Elon Musk section, but that's not the purpose of AfD. Further, given the deletion rational of NEO, I think it's easy to examine the references provided in the article and in an independent search that the term woke mind virus meets notability independently from woke and is an appropriate topic split. microbiologyMarcus petri dish· growths 14:57, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Bosnian names of primate families

Bosnian names of primate families (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Violates WP:DICDEF. Occidental𓍝Phantasmagoria [ T/ C] 17:17, 24 April 2024 (UTC) reply

List of translations of The Lord of the Rings

List of translations of The Lord of the Rings (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Not every bit of LOTR minutiae needs to be recorded here, fails WP:LISTN as a subject that hasn't received significant attention as a group, No idea why "Elrond's library", a French shop, is in the lead singled out as a source for this either. Fram ( talk) 14:46, 24 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Science fiction and fantasy, Language, Literature, and Lists. Fram ( talk) 14:46, 24 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, this is certainly not "minutiae", but a remarkable indication of the novel's importance. The source you mention is really just a footnote or aside, it has no special importance. If editors really don't want a stand-alone list, then of course we can merge it back to Translating The Lord of the Rings, but that seems quite extreme to me. Chiswick Chap ( talk) 15:30, 24 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    Not sure a list is more of an indication of importance than a summary thereof would be (e.g. "It has been translated into X languages as of year Y"). TompaDompa ( talk) 15:34, 24 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    It's certainly a far better substantiated indication; and of course it allows readers to check for themselves in whichever language they may happen to be interested. I may note that this list has existed in some form since 2008: it has been edited by many hands. Chiswick Chap ( talk) 15:49, 24 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    Yes. But the fact that the article The Lord of the Rings lists links to 113 translations. The figure of 113 is already a "remarkable indication of the novel's importance". Anyone interested in these translations can find all that they want to know by following the appropriate links. So my recommendation would be delete. Athel cb ( talk) 16:38, 24 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. This is one of those articles that has no better home. Wikipedia provides for list articles, and this one satisfies the conditions. Indeed, this provision seems to explicitly rationalize lists like this one: The entirety of the list does not need to be documented in sources for notability, only that the grouping or set in general has been. Because the group or set is notable, the individual entries in the list do not need to be independently notable, although editors may, at their discretion. I read Wikipedia’s acceptance of lists to be quite broad, since the guidelines discuss such acceptable topics as lists of plants in some obscure taxa, lists of words, and so forth, and explicitly states that the individual list elements need not be notable. The reason Wikipedia is the best home for this material is that a scholarly source would not be up-to-date, while copying from them could be copyright violation, since it would be significant content copied in its entirety. Meanwhile, fan sites regularly go belly-up, leaving a gap in cataloging important literature. The list notability guidelines provide for this kind of list: The remarkable diversity of translations has been noted in scholarly circles many times (these references are needed in the article, such as from List_of_translations_of_The_Lord_of_the_Rings). Given the precedence and guidelines on Wikipedia, I do not see this article as being a candidate for deletion — certainly not until lists of less general interest get cleaned out and the guidelines get tightened to exclude, rather than include, this kind of list. Strebe ( talk) 17:03, 24 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Speedy Keep The fact that a novel was translated to over 57 languages should automatically make a list like this notable- that is amazing in itself. HadesTTW (he/him •  talk) 19:01, 24 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Please read WP:NLIST. While being translated into 57 different languages is certainly impressive, how impressive something is isn't a valid inclusion criteria for lists. Industrial Insect (talk) 18:38, 25 April 2024 (UTC) reply
@ Industrial Insect: That may be so, but WP:NLIST is fulfilled based on other criteria (see above and below). Daranios ( talk) 11:21, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Italian language in Romania

Italian language in Romania (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Not really about the Italian language in Romania. It’s mostly a coatrack about Italians in Romania and about the similarities between Romanian and Italian. Biruitorul Talk 21:15, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Merge with Italians in Romania per WP:ATD. Most of the article seems to be about Italians in Romania, with only a fraction about what the article should be about. Thus merge it and move the content actually about the the Romanian and Italian languages to a section of Italians in Romania or a section under Romanian or Italian. Flemmish Nietzsche ( talk) 22:07, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Merge per nom and per Flemmish Nietzsche. Article is not mainly of its topic and has a lot of unsourced information. I don't think the topic is notable to justify its split from Italians in Romania, it's not like the language is very present in the country. Super Ψ Dro 22:14, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep part of it, merge the rest. The sections on the languages should be kept. The various sections about other topics, like Italian Emigration to Romania, belong in the article for Italians in Romania. I can see an argument for merging the language sections with that article but I do think that the language elements are worthy of their own article. Lamona ( talk) 04:07, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Comment: Why is Italians in Romania a preferable redirect target over Languages of Romania? IgnatiusofLondon (he/him • ☎️) 13:58, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Italian isn't listed there as a language used in Romania. I don't know why that is, but it seems to be based on something like census data. If Italian doesn't show in official statistics it probably shouldn't be addressed there. Lamona ( talk) 14:31, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply
According to the latest census, there are 4105 native speakers of Italian in Romania. Biruitorul Talk 19:09, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply

French exonyms

French exonyms (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Wikipedia is not a dictionary. I am also nominating the following related pages for the same reason:

List of French exonyms for Dutch toponyms (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
List of French exonyms for German toponyms (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
List of French exonyms for Italian toponyms (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

PepperBeast (talk) 13:11, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Language, Geography, Lists, and Europe. PepperBeast (talk) 13:11, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as WP:LISTCRUFT, not to mention being entirely unsourced. ---- D'n'B- t -- 14:11, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Speedy Keep this was just closed as no consensus a couple weeks ago, and has been re-nominated by the same nominator. Definitely a WP:TROUT or possibly even sanctions may be in order. SportingFlyer T· C 18:07, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    > just closed as no consensus a couple weeks ago
    That's... that's the point of re-nominating. To... create consensus where it wasn't possible to do so before. BrigadierG ( talk) 18:47, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    No, the mass deletion of all exonym listicles failed to reach consensus, so they are now listed separately. —Tamfang ( talk) 19:29, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    Oh. Well, that's still ridiculous then. The UN has a working group specifically on French exonyms, as does the French government, showing this is a valid encyclopedic topic. I don't know how any of you are getting to WP:NOTDICTIONARY here - these are not definitions or dictionary entries but rather valid lists - and WP:LISTCRUFT is simply an "i don't like it" argument. SportingFlyer T· C 19:34, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    Well, an article on the working group might be interesting. But how is an endless list of French words for places more worthy than a list of French words for spices or engine parts? —Tamfang ( talk) 20:02, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    or Bosnian names of primate families —Tamfang ( talk) 02:15, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    In that link, the author refers to the project as an attempt to create a database. Sure would be a shame if there was a policy called WP:NOTDATABASE. BrigadierG ( talk) 20:23, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    This isn't a database, though, it's a valid WP:LIST. SportingFlyer T· C 22:04, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    In most of our lists, most of the entries have their own articles. Is there any prospect of an article about the French word for Bangkok? —Tamfang ( talk) 22:12, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    WP:NLIST specifically says the entries in the list do not need to be notable enough for their own article, just that the group or set is notable. A simple Google scholar search lends more credibility to the fact this set is notable, such as [1] [2] [3], including (but not linking here) two articles on French exonyms for Polish place names. SportingFlyer T· C 23:05, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    … I meant to add: no consensus because not all such listicles are equally trivial, i.e., some do more than belabor the obvious fact that each language adapts foreign words (including placenames) to its own phonology and orthography. —Tamfang ( talk) 20:04, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    Quite true. There was no consensus because there was simply too much in the nom for one discussion. My bad. So, I'm going back through the area in a more rational way. Re-listing when no consensus emerges is what's supposed to happen. PepperBeast (talk) 20:36, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Delete - I agree with nominator, this is a case of WP:NOTDICTIONARY BrigadierG ( talk) 18:48, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shadow311 ( talk) 20:17, 13 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: No consensus. Please include a link to any previous AFDs concerning these articles.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:58, 20 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel ( talk) 03:54, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • It's still notable, there are plenty of sources available, needs improvement, not deletion. SportingFlyer T· C 04:27, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    Could you make that more specific? Notable why, what sort of improvement? —Tamfang ( talk) 20:18, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply

List of French words of English origin

List of French words of English origin (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Wikipedia is not a dictionary.

I am also nominating the following related pages for the same reason:

List of French words of Gaulish origin (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
List of French words of Germanic origin (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
List of French words of Germanic origin (A-B) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
List of French words of Germanic origin (C-G) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
List of French words of Germanic origin (H–Z) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

PepperBeast (talk) 22:25, 5 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Do you think it would be a good idea to move it to Wiktionary instead? Obviously these articles have value, so I think we should retain them, but in the other wiki. איתן קרסנטי ( talk) 06:59, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
I'm not familiar enough with Wiktionary policies to have an opinion. PepperBeast (talk) 12:24, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:52, 9 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Mae yr erthygl hon yn cynnwys llawer o eiriau sydd yn debyg iawn i eiriau Cymraeg (sydd hefyd yn iaith Geltaidd) sydd ddim yn dod o eiriau Lladin na Saesneg. Felly rydw i yn sicr ei fod yn adnodd pwysig iawn i'w chadw fel cofnod o eiriau Ffrangeg sydd yn dod o hen iaith Gaul, felly dylai gael ei chadw er mwyn ei phwysicrwydd. Nid yn unig oherwydd diwylliant Ffrangeg, ond y ddiwylliant Geltaidd sydd yn gorchuddio llawer o Orllewin Ewrop, yn cynnwys Sbaen, Y Wlad Belg, Y Swisdir, Gogledd Yr Eidal, a Gorllewin a De'r Almaen. Wrth ddileu'r dudalen hon, rydym yn dileu darn pwysig o'n hanes a'n diwylliant.
This article contains many words that are very similar to Welsh words (which is also a Celtic language) which do not come from Latin or English. Therefore I am certain it is a very important resource to be kept as a record of French and Celtic words that come from the old language of Gaul, so should be kept because of its importance. Not only for its importance in French heritage, but also for Celtic heritage which spans most of Western Europe, including Spain, Belgium, Switzerland, the North of Italy, and the West and South of Germany. Gareth ap Emyr ( talk) 21:59, 12 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Comment: Well, it's Euro-centric. The Academie Francaise isn't representative of French in Quebec, the Office de la Langue Francaise sets suggestions for Quebec French, which is mostly what we use here in Canada. This would need a rewrite for a more global view and most of this is unsourced. There's something here, but I'm not sure even a draft would fix this. Oaktree b ( talk) 00:03, 10 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    A selfie is égoportrait [4], literally an ego-portrait. I suppose we could draft it, but this would be a project. Oaktree b ( talk) 00:08, 10 April 2024 (UTC) reply

If we were to delete this one, we'd also have to delete all similar articles, and there's a lot (five just for the lists of English of French origin). I've never encountered such lists on the Wiktionary, but it would indeed maybe make more sense to have these there. But in the end it wouldn't make any major difference. Ulysse Verjus-Tonnelé ( talk) 01:10, 13 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Nevermind they do exist on Wiktionary actually! https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:English_terms_derived_from_French Ulysse Verjus-Tonnelé ( talk) 01:13, 13 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Same for French words https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:French_terms_derived_from_English Ulysse Verjus-Tonnelé ( talk) 01:17, 13 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Keep the opening context and various ancillary information are not adequately covered by the relevant Wiktionary categories. It is desirable to expand these articles into something like Influence of French on English which is an encyclopedic discussion of the topic and not just a list, but these lists are better than nothing and better than a link to a Wiktionary category. Eluchil404 ( talk) 03:10, 16 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: No consensus here yet to take any particular action with this bundled nomination.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:13, 16 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Delete To be honest I'd just delete the lot of them, these seem too niche to be of interest here, without some further scholarly discussion around these words, which seem to be missing from the article. Oaktree b ( talk) 23:26, 16 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Draftify per @ Eluchil404:'s recommendation of expanding the article to be similar to Influence of French on English. It has problems with the way it's currently written, but it isn't unrecoverable. Ships & Space( Edits) 01:40, 17 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist. No consensus yet.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:04, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Prodded articles


History

Ladysmith – Naval Brigade Dragging 4.7 Guns into Ladysmith

Ladysmith – Naval Brigade Dragging 4.7 Guns into Ladysmith (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No indication that this is a notable film (well, a 31 second static shot). Apparently not only have we no idea who actually made it (just the producre), but we also don't know what is being shown according to this. Perhaps some list for this and many similar non-notable shorts may be feasible, but at the moment I don't see a good redirect target. Perhaps William Kennedy Dickson filmography, which gives an idea of the number of such ultrashort films that were made (and is clearly incomplete, as e.g. this very one isn't on that list). Fram ( talk) 07:42, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Nationalisms Across the Globe

Nationalisms Across the Globe (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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There is very little to indicate that this book series is notable. While individual books and authors might be notable (as shown by reviews, citations, and scholarly coverage), there is nothing to indicate that this is notable as a "book series". This stands in contrast to for example The Cambridge History of the British Empire, which is covered by RS as a notable book series. Thenightaway ( talk) 16:08, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Battle of Ajmer

Battle of Ajmer (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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There is no such a battle named "Battle of Ajmer" in any of the WP:RS nor any Historians named a battle as "Battle of Ajmer" between Mher tribe and Ghurids. The article body talks about a conflict between Mher tribe and Ghurids, whereas the infobox describes Rajputs as the belligerents. Neither from the source of R. C Majumdar, nor from Romila Thapar, I could even find a scattered line about this event. The actual event per cited is the prelude of Battle of Kasahrada (1197). The current content could be added into this parent article (edit: it is already present the background section). Fails WP:GNG, and not found any RS calling the event by the name of "Battle of Ajmer". Imperial [AFCND] 05:55, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Military, Geography, and India. Imperial [AFCND] 05:55, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Rajasthan-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 11:22, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Draftify or Very Weak Keep. The sources from Majumdar and Thapar, like ImperialAficionado I too could not verify or find on this Battle and would have opted for delete but the source from Dr Ashoka Srivastav from Department of history at University of Gorakhpur had me hanging from where the page got its attribution from. There is need for improvement on this page and some more detail that is missing or wrong about the battle, siege, and the belligerents. From Srivastav Belligerents were Mhers, many Hindu Rajas, Raja of Nagor, Raja of Nahrwala. It does not say Rajputs. More sources will help too. RangersRus ( talk) 14:11, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Battle of Kalanaur (1748)

Battle of Kalanaur (1748) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The sources on this page almost all deal with WP:RAJ, with many of the sources (including Singh), tracing back to the Panth Prakash, which fails WP:RAJ. Some of these sources don't even state that such a thing happened, and nor do any other major sources regarding this campaign such as Hari Ram Gupta. Noorullah ( talk) 22:27, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply

For example, here's Hari Ram Gupta, who is a major historian in this region and has no recollection of such events whatsoever. [5] Singh (who relies on Prakash as stated on page 49) [6] Noorullah ( talk) 22:28, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Military, India, and Punjab. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 02:25, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete: Copy and paste of previous AFD vote- Over the past year, these topic areas have been inundated with poorly written and sourced articles that paid no heed to neutrality, proper sourcing, or historical accuracy, but rather on aggrandizing their religion as much as possible. Tactics included an over reliance on primary sources and ref spamming Google books snippets or sources which only made negligible mention of topic at hand. This article is one of the many, many examples. Southasianhistorian8 ( talk) 04:01, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Battle of Chamkaur (1764)

Battle of Chamkaur (1764) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Extremely unreliable sources including over-reliance on primary sources that still fall under WP:RAJ such as Panth Prakash, also extremely exaggerated in numbers (1 million?) Noorullah ( talk) 22:51, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Military, India, and Punjab. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 02:21, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete: Over the past year, these topic areas have been inundated with poorly written and sourced articles that paid no heed to neutrality, proper sourcing, or historical accuracy, but rather on aggrandizing their religion as much as possible. Tactics included an over reliance on primary sources and ref spamming Google books snippets or sources which only made negligible mention of topic at hand. This article is one of the many, many examples. Southasianhistorian8 ( talk) 03:39, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Battle of Chenab

Battle of Chenab (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Another page littered with unreliable sources. Hari Ram Gupta doesn't even say he was defeated at all (which the page misleads you by citing it did), removed if you check now on my newest revision. Noorullah ( talk) 22:56, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Hari Ram Gupta being the only reliable source on the page shows that the Afghans had instead routed and pursued the Sikhs. [7] Noorullah ( talk) 22:58, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Also had to remove numerous unreliable sources, including one of them being a near copy paste. [8] Noorullah ( talk) 23:03, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Marion Evans

Marion Evans (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG. Flounder fillet ( talk) 20:21, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply

David Madden (Jeopardy! contestant)

AfDs for this article:
David Madden (Jeopardy! contestant) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Redirect to List of Jeopardy! contestants#David Madden, or Delete. Case of WP:BLP1E that was previously deleted Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David Madden (Jeopardy! contestant) (2nd nomination), but it was recreated. Referencing is very poor (there are no quality RS that cover the subject in any SIGOV outside of being in lists of famous winners). I tagged the article a year ago and suggested it should be redirected as IPs were constantly adding badly referenced WP:PROMO material about his other business interests, but when I WP:BOLDLY redirected it a few days ago, having not had any response to my notices, User:Robert McClenon felt it was better to send to AfD. Aszx5000 ( talk) 09:49, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Only seeing now that it was also at AfD a third time (that AfD wasn't logged on the Talk Page) where it was kept Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David Madden (Jeopardy! contestant) (3rd nomination). Having read the sourcing that was provided for the 3rd AfD, I think it was pretty weak, and a redirect, to his entry on List of Jeopardy! contestants#David Madden would be a better solution. Aszx5000 ( talk) 09:56, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. The subject passes Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria, which says:

    People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject.

    • If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not usually sufficient to establish notability.
    Sources
    1. McNear, Claire (2020). Answers in the Form of Questions: A Definitive History and Insider's Guide to Jeopardy!. New York: Twelve. ISBN  978-1-5387-0232-1. Retrieved 2024-04-29 – via Google Books.

      The book notes about Bruce Lou: "As a student, he’d done quiz bowl, the team trivia competition often found in scholastic settings, and won the National History Bee—a contest organized by David Madden, who was a nineteen-time Jeopardy! champion in 2005—and Lou found himself missing the competition."

      The book notes: "As Watson entered crunch time, Jeopardy! granted IBM access to notable champions from years past, including nineteen-time winner David Madden, whose streak was second only to Ken Jennings’s at the time. Madden played two games against Watson.“"

      The book notes: "A number of Jeopardy! alumni’s new chapters, perhaps unsurprisingly, have to do with trivia. David Madden was a twentythree-year-old grad student when he first played, and as he left the studio after his twentieth game with vouchers totaling more than $430,000, he wasn’t sure what he wanted to do. ... A quiz bowl alum, he ultimately used his winnings as seed money to found International Academic Competitions, which hosts, among other things, the annual National History Bee and Bowl."

      The book notes: "David Madden, the nineteen-time champion, remembers auditioning in the Jeopardy! studio in May 2004. With him was a friend named Jeff Hoppes, who was called to be on the show just before Madden and ultimately became one of the final victims of Ken Jennings, coming in second in the seventieth game of Jennings's seventy-four-game winning streak. Hoppes, Madden says, first played quiz bowl in high school when he was a classmate of Rutter's, and then went on to marry eventual six-time Jeopardy! champion and Tournament of Champions runner-up Larissa Kelly. Madden, Rutter, and Kelly made up the winning team in the All-Star Games."

    2. Grant, Meghan (2019-03-04). "'Jeopardy!' All-Star Games finals include Ridgewood native". North Jersey Media Group. Archived from the original on 2024-04-29. Retrieved 2024-04-29.

      The article notes: "This Bergen County person is competing in the "Jeopardy!" All-Star Games this week. ... Who is former champion David Madden of Ridgewood? Among the former champs will be Madden, a member of Team Brad, one of the six trios of top players in the tournament. ... Back in 2005-2006, Madden won $432,400 in 19 rounds in a row — the third-longest winning streak in the game — earning a rank among "Jeopardy!" top players. ... Madden founded International Academic Competitions, running about a dozen contests in 30 countries, including the National History Bee and National Science Bee, hosting tens of thousands of students. Former players have gone on to "Jeopardy!" teen and college tournaments, and five staffers have won on the show."

    3. Grant, Meghan (2019-03-05). "Ridgewood native David Madden and Team Brad win 'Jeopardy!' All-Star Games". North Jersey Media Group. Archived from the original on 2024-04-29. Retrieved 2024-04-29.

      The article notes: "Ridgewood native David Madden and his partners on Team Brad won a decisive victory on "Jeopardy!" All-Star Games, and the $1 million prize. ... Madden earned a spot on the All-Star Games roster by winning 19 rounds in a row in 2005 and 2006, the third-longest winning streak in the show’s history. He was “drafted” by team leader Brad Rutter, along with Madden’s former Princeton classmate, Larissa Kelly. ... Madden used some of his first "Jeopardy!" winnings, a $432,400 pot, as start-up money, going on to found International Academic Competitions."

    4. Coutros, Evonnie (2005-09-23). "Ridgewood grad strikes it rich on 'Jeopardy!'". The Record. Archived from the original on 2024-04-29. Retrieved 2024-04-29 – via Newspapers.com.

      The article notes: "Former Ridgewood resident David Madden hit the jackpot this month, but it wasn't in the lottery. Madden, a 1999 graduate of Ridgewood High, had a 19-day winning streak on "Jeopardy!" and walked away from the game show with more than $430,000 in cash. Madden, 24, a graduate of Princeton University, lost to a 24-year-old self-employed musician from Decatur, Ga. The episode aired earlier this week. ... Madden, who now lives in Berlin, is studying for an advanced degree in international relations at Frei University."

    5. Daugherty, Haley (2023-02-17). "Greater Latrobe Senior High School to host national quiz competition". Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. Archived from the original on 2024-04-29. Retrieved 2024-04-29.

      The article notes: "International Academic Competitions was started in 2010 by Jeopardy winner David Madden. He and his wife, Nolwenn Madden act as executive directors and they expanded the competition globally in 2012."

    6. Adams, Caralee J. (2013-07-01). "Reviving History Instruction: What's Old Is New Again". Education Week. Archived from the original on 2024-04-29. Retrieved 2024-04-29.

      The article notes: "With the goal of engaging students more deeply in history, David Madden, a “Jeopardy” champion and former high school and college quiz-bowl player, established the National History Bee & Bowl in 2010. Now in about 2,000 schools—elementary through high—individual Bee competitions and Bowl events are held throughout the country. Mr. Madden, 31, discovered there was plenty of demand."

    7. Ferguson, Mike (2014-02-08). "'I'll take history for $1,000, Alex': Founder of history bowl attends Montana competition". Billings Gazette. Archived from the original on 2024-04-29. Retrieved 2024-04-29.

      The article notes: "Montana high school history buffs can thank David Madden’s 19-day winning streak on the game show “Jeopardy!” nine years ago for the chance to show off their own knowledge Saturday at Skyview High School. Madden, 32, is founder and executive director of the National History Bee and Bowl, an individual and team competition with about 50,000 participants in more than 200 places around the country and overseas, too. About 60 students competed all day Saturday in the state championship held in Skyview’s theater. ... Madden, a graduate of Princeton University, founded the organization four years ago on his more than $400,000 in winnings on America’s most famous quiz show."

    8. Zarnowski, Tatiana (2011-02-28). "Saratoga Springs competition will test knowledge of history". The Daily Gazette. Archived from the original on 2014-07-22. Retrieved 2024-04-29.

      The article notes: "National History Bowl and Bee, a private, for-profit startup company, is based in Ridgewood, N.J., where owner David Madden is from. The company conducted a pilot competition there in May. In 2005, Madden reigned in a 20-game run on “Jeopardy!,” the second-longest ever after Ken Jennings, who had a 74-game winning streak."

    9. Strauss, Robert (2005-10-09). "Worth Noting; I'll Take Quiz Kids For $600, Alex". The New York Times. Archived from the original on 2024-04-29. Retrieved 2024-04-29.

      The article notes: "Mr. Madden was the captain of the Quiz Bowl team at Ridgewood High, and was on a similar freshman team at Princeton."

    10. Pakkala, Tiffany (2008-01-10). "'Jeopardy' winner turns to hiking with a purpose". Savannah Morning News. Archived from the original on 2024-04-29. Retrieved 2024-04-29.

      The article notes: ""Jeopardy" fans remember him as the calculating young trivia expert who won 19 times on the game show and left with winnings more than $442,000, in part because he sought out the "Daily Double" early to maximize his cash. Now David Madden, 26, is crunching numbers for a different reason: He's hiking 3,000 miles to help raise money for a group that offers free and low-cost lodging to hospitalized soldiers and their families."

    There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow David Madden to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

    Cunard ( talk) 05:35, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Which of these refs is WP:SIGCOV on the subject in a major regional/national media outlet - none.
No main regional or national American news outlet thinks he is notable enough to do a piece on him - if they don't think he is notable, why do we?
Passing mentions, and mostly for the BLP1E, in small media outlets, is not the General notability guideline. If that was the case we could get rid of BLP1E as a guideline as most cases have such coverage. Aszx5000 ( talk) 08:11, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply
The subject received significant coverage in 2005, 2008, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2019, 2020, and 2023. A person who falls under WP:BLP1E does not receive sustained significant coverage over 18 years for his activities.

He was a nineteen-time Jeopardy! champion in 2005. He founded the International Academic Competitions, which hosts the annual National History Bee and Bowl. He competed in and with his partners won the "Jeopardy!" All-Star Games in 2019. A person who has received significant coverage for multiple events does not fall under WP:BLP1E.

The subject is from New Jersey. The subject received significant coverage in a 2020 book published by Twelve. He received significant coverage in a 2014 article in Billings Gazette, the largest newspaper in Montana. He received significant coverage in a 2008 article in the Savannah Morning News, a regional newspaper that covers the Savannah metropolitan area and parts of South Carolina. He easily meets Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline and Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria.

Cunard ( talk) 08:28, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply

But he hasn't received any significant coverage. If WP:GNG was "significant number of passing mentions in non-national/regional sources", then he would be a keep. But the requirement is for "significant coverage", and in quality sources (of which there is also none).
I could create an AI to scan 3rd tier US media to find names briefly mentioned (many of which will have a BLP1E element), and I could create 1 million more Wikipedia BLPs in the morning, but I would probably be in ANI shortly after.
No encyclopedia outside of Jeopardy! fan sites, will ever have an article on this subject. His entry on List of Jeopardy! contestants#David Madden captures everything that is notable about his BLP1E. Aszx5000 ( talk) 09:11, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Sources such as Pakkala 2008, Ferguson 2014, Grant 2019a, and McClear 2020 are not passing mentions. Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria says, "multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability". Cunard ( talk) 10:00, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Comment: There is no requirement on WP:SIGCOV for sources to be "a major regional/national media outlet"; topics can be covered locally and still be notable. WP:NOTPAPER. — Ost ( talk) 21:16, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply

X (automobile)

X (automobile) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This car/brand does not meet WP:N. I am unable to find any other sourcing, and the given source is only a listing that says "X (France) (1908-1909)." The article went unsourced for 18 years and the text has not been expanded upon since its original creation. Even given the age of this, it does not seem to have any claim to importance or historical significance since it existed for a year at most and "little is known about the marque." StreetcarEnjoyer (talk) 21:25, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply

History of the Jews in Mauritania

History of the Jews in Mauritania (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The vast majority of sources about Jews in the context of "Mauritania" are discussing Jews in the Roman provinces of " Mauretania," which encompass the north of present-day Morocco and Algeria, not Mauritania proper. The Jewish people don't appear to have ever had much of a presence in what is now Mauritania. There isn't much material to expand the article with, just minor controversies regarding recent antisemitic statements and sentiments in the country, which I believe shouldn't be what makes up the article. Mooonswimmer 15:19, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Delete: As per nominator. Strong delete: Fails WP:GNG, WP:RS and WP:V. Not just does this page contains antisemetic, proslavery and psyeudohistoric rhetoric that is potentially harmful, it is poorly sourced with one of the sources pointing to Wikipedia as its source ( see here). Without the harmful commentary there's just nothing left for a standalone page. BlakeIsHereStudios ( talk | contributions) 15:58, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete poorly sourced, anti-Semetic and pro-slavery rhetoric which shouldn't even be in the article, not to mention pseudohistory. One of the sources points to Wikipedia as its source ( scroll down to the bottom). The Arabo-Berbers of present-day Mauritania in West Africa were immigrants to the that country, from what is now Morocco as per the nom's mention above. Mauritania in West Africa (or North West Africa), should not be confused with the historical province of Mauretania (Northern Africa), where the present-day country in West Africa takes its name, following the Arabo-Berber invasion and settlement in that area–several centuries later, and not in 70 CE. Delete the anti-Semetic and slavery commentary and there would be nothing left in this article, because there is nothing else that supports a stand-alone article. Article fails WP:GNG, WP:RS, and Wikipedia:Verifiability. Tamsier ( talk) 18:20, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Kharavela's conquests and invasions

Kharavela's conquests and invasions (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Copy of Draft:Kharvela's conquests and invasions (created by now-blocked User:Logical pharaoh). The article is heavily promotional, and uncritically follows the only primary source ( Hathigumpha inscription) with some added embellishing. I'd recommend WP:TNT if there was a need for a separate article from Kharavela, but there doesn't seem to be, as the topic is already treated in context at Kharavela#Biography. Chaotıċ Enby ( talk · contribs) 13:37, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Delete: Article is built on WP:SYNTH, combining up different records of conflicts of Kharvela into a single infobox. Latest sources barely covers the area, fails WP:GNG, and synth is used.-- Imperial [AFCND] 15:03, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Military, and India. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 15:11, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • delete Besides problems listed above, the tone of the text is hopelessly bad.It would be better to start from scratch with decent recent sources than merge any of this. Mangoe ( talk) 19:32, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete: Article is very poorly written and has major WP:NPOV issues, and in addition to the listed issues, at this point should just be blown up. Flemmish Nietzsche ( talk) 16:19, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as per nomination. Grabup ( talk) 16:46, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete, appears to be a synth riddled OR microbiologyMarcus petri dish· growths 18:38, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Manuel París Ricaurte

Manuel París Ricaurte (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Guy has a messy and (and coincidentally, also unsourced) wikipedia article on spanish wikipedia, which I cut. Not really enough sources to establish anything beyond the fact that this guy exists, which is, unfortunately, not enough for WP:GNG. Allan Nonymous ( talk) 04:08, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Woke Mind Virus

Woke Mind Virus (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Feels entirely like WP:NEO. Half the usage section is just dedicated to Elon Musk (at the time of AFD nomination).

Look I understand Go woke, go broke exists, but that feels like WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Is every popular iteration of a phrase invoking the ideas of wokeness going to have its own article?

According to the article, "Vanity Fair has titled whole sections of stories under the "Woke Mind Virus" label." This isn't actually a label that is selectable/catagorized/tagged like "politics", but a custom label for one article.

I do not doubt the phrase's usage in popular media and by influential people, but it is essentially the same thing as woke. I could go on, but I think this can be deleted and redirected to woke. Alternatively, this content can be merged into woke as its own section with the criticism. -- Classicwiki ( talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 01:53, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Keep, since WP:NEO is cited, let us see what it says, Articles on neologisms that have little or no usage in reliable sources are commonly deleted, but in this case this phrase is very widely cited across an enormous variety of reliable sources. The phrase probably should also be mentioned at the woke article and other mentions should be added and included, but a page for Woke Mind Virus itself makes sense given the sources as broad and significant as they are. Iljhgtn ( talk) 02:27, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
@ Iljhgtn, yes it is popular term, this is already addressed. WP:NEO also says, Some neologisms can be in frequent use, and it may be possible to pull together many facts about a particular term and show evidence of its usage on the Internet or in larger society. This is not in question. I do not doubt it will be utilized in large portions of media and scholarly works. Until it is shown to be its own distinct concept, it is essentially a branch term used to criticize wokeness. There is a criticism section in woke that this neologism can direct to in my opinion. Currently, Anti-woke redirects to woke. Anti-woke is an older term than woke mind virus and used it much more media/scholarly works. WMV is just a substitute term for being against wokeness (or anti-woke). Alternatively, I think a separate article that incorporates reliable secondary sources say about the term or concept, not just sources that use the term titled something along the lines of "Criticisms of woke/wokeness" or even "anti-woke" could also be appropriate, where WMV redirects to. I do not see the point of a standalone article about Woke Mind Virus. -- Classicwiki ( talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 02:57, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete or merge/redirect no evidence that this neologism deserves a stand-alone wikipedia article. ( t · c) buidhe 07:39, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Keep: Passes WP:NEO and has coverage by reliable sources. BlakeIsHereStudios ( talk | contributions) 16:04, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Selectively merge and redirect to woke. There's no separate subject here -- it's the same "woke" pejorative discussed in that article. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 16:19, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Weak Redirect, maybe i'm just biased because this is an inherently silly sounding phrase, but I don't see how it differentiates from the term " Woke" so a redirect there would be optimal. Samoht27 ( talk) 16:50, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Merge/redirect to Woke, it's just a slight variation of the exact same thing. Di (they-them) ( talk) 16:58, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Comment: A couple people have suggested a merge or redirect, but I would like to point out that this term "woke mind virus" actually has quite substantial coverage of its own differentiating it quite a bit from "woke" and therefore a mere mention of this term on that page seems to be inadequate. This source mentions the term as distinct but was early in coverage so does not yet mention what WMV means. This source mentions the WMV phrase in depth by itself completely independent of "woke". This source mentions the history of the term, especially as used specifically by Elon Musk since around 2021 and in reference to San Francisco and includes some of the defining language that separates and distinguishes this phrase at is popularly understood by sources, Despite his repeated use of the phrase, the precise meaning of “woke mind virus” has been difficult to pin down. Musk told Bill Maher during an interview on HBO: “I think we need to be very cautious about anything that is anti-meritocratic, and anything that … results in the suppression of free speech. Those are two aspects of the woke mind virus that I think are very dangerous.” This source speaks uniquely of the WMV by saying much about Musk's use of it from a critical perspective. This source again uses both "woke" as well as WMV and refers to them as distinct terms with their own meanings. This source predominantly focuses on just the "woke" phrase but has an important passing mention of WMV, though obviously passing mentions in general are not to carry weight towards an AfD consideration. This source covers the phrase and the Netflix mention with some detail. I believe the above, and much more can be found with fairly little work and effort actually to support an independent page for both the WMV phrase as well as woke and other phrases mentioned by other editors. Iljhgtn ( talk) 19:19, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • A lot of these sources are not reliable, though. ( t · c) buidhe 15:14, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    This article from The Wall Street Journal leading on this subject in a very strong WP:SIGCOV manner. This article from Rolling Stone discusses the term/phrase with both Musk as well as Bill Maher's involvement and contributions. This article from fact-checking website Snopes cites the Webster dictionary definition of " woke" independent of the subsequent mention of "woke mind virus" which the article then explores in depth further on going back to its seeming origins (related to Musk at least) from 2021, The first mention of the words "woke mind virus" that we could find in Musk's feed showed up in December 2021. There is much, much, more out there on the internet as well that can be easily found. The "no evidence" claim seems to have not sufficiently considered WP:BEFORE. Iljhgtn ( talk) 19:37, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    Per WP:NOPAGE we also need to consider if this topic benefits from being a stand alone article rather than being covered in the woke article. Evidence for this theory is what I think is lacking. ( t · c) buidhe 06:37, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as the phrase is not really notable and similar phrases already exist. It's just a variation of the term woke. There exists multiple variations of this same term and they do not have their own unique articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Asaduzzaman Khan Shahriar ( talk • contribs) 11:44, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep I understand the concerns of the UNDUE weight given to the Elon Musk section, but that's not the purpose of AfD. Further, given the deletion rational of NEO, I think it's easy to examine the references provided in the article and in an independent search that the term woke mind virus meets notability independently from woke and is an appropriate topic split. microbiologyMarcus petri dish· growths 14:57, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Western Caribbean zone

Western Caribbean zone (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This reads somewhat similar to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Southern Caribbean in that it fails to identify a specific, notable topic. Searching for "Western Caribbean zone" yields no useful results at all, and while the sources here are citations for specific facts, I can't find anything that discusses this as a region as a whole. Describing these historical eras seems like original research when combining what happened in some places over a long time without being able to describe their relationships to a specific region, rather than just about Central America or History of Central America with a bit of adjacent Mexico and Colombia tossed in. Reywas92 Talk 20:53, 25 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Geography, and Caribbean. Reywas92 Talk 20:53, 25 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per WP:OR/ WP:SYNTH. Indeed it is very similar to the other 3 Caribbean subregion articles I nominated for deletion earlier today. It has sources, but those usually only deal with specific countries and not the purported wider region as a whole. NLeeuw ( talk) 21:07, 25 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Merge... In response here, I initiated this article in 2010 as a way to incorporate the Afro-Carribean diaspora into Central American history. Typically as it appears to me, work focused on Central America tends to leave out the important role played, as the original contribution did, that there is a complex set of African components in the region that were always connected to the the Caribbean, hence the Western Caribbean zone.
This includes, initially, the role of African groups like the Miskitos or Miskitos Zambos, with their international connections, to English colonies in particular, and then the use the English made of them to promote their own illegal (in Spanish eyes) trade with the region.
This was followed by the large scale migration from the English speaking Caribbean in conjunction with the building of the Panama Canal, and the actions of the fruit companies in particular. These communities are connected thought their adherence (today) to the English language (though many are bi-lingual), English customs, such as the Anglican church and other lesser religious groups that have home in the English Caribbean, to include customs like playing cricket.
I am perfectly willing to accept a merger with other areas, or a renaming, but I think that deletion of its content at least along the lines established here, is unnecessary and the piece is worthy of retention as a topic in Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beepsie ( talk • contribs) 21:54, 25 April 2024 (UTC) reply
I think History of Central America would be a good place to include most of this then. I agree with your comments that this is an important part of history, but even if this "zone" term is sometimes used, I don't think it needs to be a separate page like this. Reywas92 Talk 00:43, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • There are definitely sources to support the term. I don't know why the conclusion is that there are no useful results at all - it seems to have been a British geographic term, and countries self-describe as being inside the zone. [9] SportingFlyer T· C 22:38, 25 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Bradfield Abbey

Bradfield Abbey (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails notability, the one reliable source Is the one referenced on the page which makes it clear the charter refering to the abbey having been built is probably fraudulent. I can find no other historical source that references any abbey existing in Bradfield. Tim Landy ( talk) 15:39, 25 April 2024 (UTC) reply

List of Indian Kingdoms overthrown due to Muslim conquests

List of Indian Kingdoms overthrown due to Muslim conquests (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fancruft-esque POV article backed by author's original research and synthesis of different sources. Ratnahastin ( talk) 10:38, 25 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Maratha-Rajput conflict (1800-1820)

Maratha-Rajput conflict (1800-1820) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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POV fork of [10] backed entirely by self published obsolete sources. Creator was recently blocked for socking. Ratnahastin ( talk) 03:37, 25 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, History, Military, India, and Rajasthan. Skynxnex ( talk) 03:47, 25 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete This article doesn't pass WP:GNG. I nowhere read about a topic called Maratha-Rajput conflict (1800-1820). Nothing of significance happened in 1800 or 1820 which can start or end any such conflicts. There were many conflicts in present day Rajasthan around that time like kingdoms of Marwar, Mewar, Jaipur, Scindhia, Holkar, Pindari etc all fighting with one another, Marwar-Jaipur conflicts, Holkar-Scindhia conflicts, pindari helping one kingdom abandoning them and helping other, all of these happened simultaneously, so it can not be said that Rajputs like Mewar, Marwar, Jaipur etc were fighting unitedly against United Maratha forces of Holkar, Scindhia and pindaris. I seriously think the article is more like generalization of almost a century long warfare in this period of anarchy which also had other players like Mughals and many more new entrants like Sikhs, British, and many soldiers of fortunes working under some powers and later switching sides. In my opinion this article doesn't pass notability issue. Just show some references or citations where this particular topic is mentioned separately, or even just mentioned. This article is nothing but a rubbish page made by a abusive account. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2409:4052:91F:698F:5590:CBF8:CC1B:D8BB ( talk) 18:27, 25 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nom.-- Imperial [AFCND] 10:49, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Italian language in Romania

Italian language in Romania (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Not really about the Italian language in Romania. It’s mostly a coatrack about Italians in Romania and about the similarities between Romanian and Italian. Biruitorul Talk 21:15, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Merge with Italians in Romania per WP:ATD. Most of the article seems to be about Italians in Romania, with only a fraction about what the article should be about. Thus merge it and move the content actually about the the Romanian and Italian languages to a section of Italians in Romania or a section under Romanian or Italian. Flemmish Nietzsche ( talk) 22:07, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Merge per nom and per Flemmish Nietzsche. Article is not mainly of its topic and has a lot of unsourced information. I don't think the topic is notable to justify its split from Italians in Romania, it's not like the language is very present in the country. Super Ψ Dro 22:14, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep part of it, merge the rest. The sections on the languages should be kept. The various sections about other topics, like Italian Emigration to Romania, belong in the article for Italians in Romania. I can see an argument for merging the language sections with that article but I do think that the language elements are worthy of their own article. Lamona ( talk) 04:07, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Comment: Why is Italians in Romania a preferable redirect target over Languages of Romania? IgnatiusofLondon (he/him • ☎️) 13:58, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Italian isn't listed there as a language used in Romania. I don't know why that is, but it seems to be based on something like census data. If Italian doesn't show in official statistics it probably shouldn't be addressed there. Lamona ( talk) 14:31, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply
According to the latest census, there are 4105 native speakers of Italian in Romania. Biruitorul Talk 19:09, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply

History of rugby union matches between Leicester and Leinster

History of rugby union matches between Leicester and Leinster (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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There is no real rivalry between these two sides, with no WP:GNG coverage of the rivalry, just a collection of stats with violates WP:NOTSTATS and WP:NLIST. Similar discussions such as this and this have shown a clear consensus on these sorts of articles. Rugbyfan22 ( talk) 18:49, 22 April 2024 (UTC) reply

List of countries and dependencies by area in 1989

List of countries and dependencies by area in 1989 (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Non- notable article with no independent notability on it's own from the main countries and dependences by area list article. A very arbitrary article that just picks a certain moment in history. The year before the fall of communism and as it states in the first sentence "This is a list of countries by area in 1989, providing an overview of the world population before the fall of the Iron Curtain."

There could be plenty of articles about some period in time when borders and land area of nations changed. Such as the end of European colonization in Africa, Asia, or even earlier when Spain lost it's former territories in Latin America.

Also there is no source for what makes this notable on it's own and we have something based on original research. All the notes and references listed are the same or if not the same can be or are used in the original article.

I think this also falls under No stats as this is some random information at a random point in time. WikiCleanerMan ( talk) 17:22, 22 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Comment Weird that population is mentioned only in that lead sentence! —Tamfang ( talk) 20:41, 22 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Muscovite–Ukrainian War (1658–1659)

Muscovite–Ukrainian War (1658–1659) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No such war in literature, it was part of the Russo-Polish War (1654–1667). This article is OR Marcelus ( talk) 20:11, 20 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Poland, Russia, and Ukraine. Marcelus ( talk) 20:11, 20 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 21:21, 20 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Comment. Seems to be mentioned here but the odds are this is not reliable and copied from Wikipedia. Possibly mentioned under other names in English, Polish, Ukrainian, Russian. Polish name is not mentioned, can anyone report on the queries in Russian and Ukrainian and analyze sources used in the respective articles on ru and uk wikis, if any (sources; articles exist)? -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 00:08, 21 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Appears notable. Sources exist e.g. this and this. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:03, 24 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, possibly re-title. We have an article on The Ruin (Ukrainian history). This would be a sub-article. I do personally find the use of "Muscovy" and "Ukraine" in this context a tad jarring. We seem to be very inconsistent in our terminology for early modern East Slavic states. There is an open access anthology on the battle of Konotop (1659) wherein Serhii Plokhy uses "Muscovite-Cossack war". Srnec ( talk) 20:25, 25 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Comment. Google Scholar returns 2 results for "Muscovite-Ukrainian War" and 9 results for "Ukrainian-Muscovite War", of which only 1 refers to 1658. Clearly a new title is needed in this case and this seems to fall under the Ruin and Russo-Polish War articles (which are sorely lacking details for this period). Even the Ukrainian-language sources cited use "Russian-Ukrainian war" and this looks like to have been the original title on the Ukrainian Wikipedia before it was moved. In my opinion this looks like revisionist history referring to an uprising led by Ivan Vyhovsky (a pro-Polish hetman). For example this source says: "Khmel'nitskii died in 1657, and Poland and the new Cossack leader, Vygovskii, now accepted Polish lordship over Ukraine. Vygovskii joined Poland in the resumption of war with Russia in October 1658... But in Ukraine, Cossacks of the Left Bank... rebelled against Vygovskii's pro-Polish alliance... Vygovskii fled to Poland, and Trubetskoi marched to Pereiaslavl', where he persuaded the Left Bank Cossacks to accept him as hetman in October 1659" (p. 214). I do not think it is suited for a spin-off article; I would say merge instead but most the article is unsourced. Mellk ( talk) 12:04, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    In a nutshell: in 1658 Vyhovsky again recognized the Cossacks' dependence on Poland; the Union of Hadziach was signed. This resumed Polish-Russian fighting interrupted earlier by a truce; Russia invaded Ukraine seeking to subjugate Vyhovsky, having some Cossacks (including Sich) behind it.
    In May, the PLC again concluded a truce with Russia, but the Sejm approved the Hadziach Union, and Vyhovsky received small reinforcements from the crown army. Thus came the Battle of Konotop, which Vyhovsky won. In August, however, a Cossack uprising broke out against Vyhovsky, who was overthrown and the new Hetman Yurko Khmelnytsky subordinated himself to Moscow, supported by a large part of the Cossacks. The war continued.
    As you can see, there is no war between “Ukraine” and “Moscow”, but there is an internal rivalry between the divided Cossacks, which take place in the context of the Polish-Russian war. Marcelus ( talk) 14:01, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    I would also add that Google Scholar returns almost no results for "Russian-Ukrainian war" or "Russo-Ukrainian war" referring to 1658/1659 (if we limit the years to before the current war then almost all results refer to the Russian Civil War and a hypothetical war excluding post-2014 publications referring to the current war but slipped through). Same goes for "Muscovite-Cossack war" etc. I see a few results for Ukrainian-language sources but there needs to be a deeper look to see which ones are reliable. At the moment I see very little that supports the idea of a separate war. For example there are plenty of Ukrainian-language sources that refer to a Soviet occupation of Ukraine until 1991 but this was determined to be a fringe view. In fact we had an AfD for this (and this was also a translation of an article from the Ukrainian Wikipedia). Mellk ( talk) 15:43, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:08, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Merge Salvage what is possible from the article and merge it into the Russo-Polish War (1654–1667) page. Noorullah ( talk) 05:52, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Women's roles during the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre

Women's roles during the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Although the title of the article is "Women's roles during the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre", it actually only lists the deeds of four women during the Tiananmen Incident, without summarizing the role of women as a whole in the Tiananmen Incident, this article is more like talking about the experiences of these four women during the Tiananmen Incident. 日期20220626 ( talk) 05:08, 20 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, History, Politics, and China. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 09:55, 20 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep The article is on a viable-looking topic and is well referenced, and can be improved. Nick-D ( talk) 10:15, 20 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Merge to 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre. There are a couple of articles that talk about gender in the Tiananmen Square protests and massacre, the Feigon article cited in the artile and there is an article from Radio Free Asia on the forgotten legacy of women and the protests. I agree with the nominator about how the text does not match the title of the page, and I do not think there is sufficient information for a stand-alone page, especially as the women mentioned in the article all have a stand-alone page, so no information will be lost. -- Enos733 ( talk) 18:06, 21 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 06:57, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Delete As per the nominator, the article is more like a compilation of the acts of some individuals rather than discussing the role of women. The article 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre is already very large hence I would oppose a merge. I think relevant information not appearing in the stand-alone articles should be copied across, for example the section on Wang Chaohua.
Golem08 ( talk) 13:31, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Absolutely fascinating! Please do not merge with anything else. People can only read so much before they get bored and look for something else. Per the "1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre" navbox, there are numerous related articles. Won't hurt to leave this as is. — Maile ( talk) 01:09, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. Although the article isn't in the best condition with its over-focus on four particular women's participation rather rather than on summarizing more general academic synthesis of the women's history of the event in general, I find the essay Deletion is not cleanup persuasive in this case. Deleting an article about a valid topic makes it more difficult to improve later, and even in this non-ideal state the article remains educational and of interest. Hydrangeans ( she/her | talk | edits) 08:39, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Holderness museums

Holderness museums (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Unclear what this article is even about. Mentions one small archive, without a claim to notability, shared across the 3 museums that aren't otherwise tied together. -- D'n'B- t -- 06:45, 17 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗ plicit 14:28, 24 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Buffer theory

Buffer theory (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The article does not really focus on "Buffer theory" and only mentions it once. It would probably be best if this were merged or redirected to another article. Shadow311 ( talk) 15:33, 16 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hey man im josh ( talk) 16:58, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply

First Battle of Lahore (1759)

First Battle of Lahore (1759) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The sources provided on the page show no mention for a battle in "August 1759", the sources only show that Ahmad Shah even began his campaign in September 1759, reaching Lahore and then taking it in November. [11] Noorullah ( talk) 10:39, 15 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  1. "Sabaji maintained his position with great valour and strength, inflicted a crushing defeat upon Jahan Khan, who was severely wounded and lost his son in the action. Jahan Khan’s return to Peshawar in discomfiture so roused the fury of the Shah." Excerpts from New history of the Marathas vol 1. p-408
  2. "Dattaji Sindhia progressed slowly through Malwa. He appointed Sabaji Sindhia to occupy Lahore ( March, 1759 ). The Sikhs did not check the Marathas, but co-operated with them in driving away the Afghans under Jahan Khan across the Indus. Sabaji’s forces penetrated as far as Peshawar." Excerpts from A Study Of Eighteenth Century India Vol. 1. p-342
  • Additional comments- Renaming the article to the Capture of Lahore or even the Maratha occupation of Lahore (per sources) would be better. Though these sources are enough for keeping this article still additional sources would be appreciated.
Sudsahab ( talk) 10:30, 17 April 2024 (UTC) reply
There doesn't even seem to be a battle at all.
Per Sarkar, it states that the Afghans had evacuated Lahore, meaning that there was no "battle" for the city in April 1758. [12] Also corroborated by Hari Ram Gupta: [13]
The Afghans returned in October 1759 and re-occupied Lahore. [14]
There's no mention of a battle in August 1759 whatsoever.
Jahan Khan's battle per this source: [15] Doesn't seem to be mentioned at Lahore at all, nor do the sources you've shown imply this, but rather is "Thereafter the invaders overran Attock, then crossed the Indus, and threatened the historic fort of Rohtas on the left bank of the Jhelum. By that time, Sabaji Patel (Schinde) reached the place with fresh troops and a large number of Sikh fighters, who had made common cause with him against the Afghan infiltrators. The Afghans were defeated by the combined forces of the Marathas and the Sikhs in a pitched battle, in which Jahan Khan lost his son and was himself also wounded."
So again, this shows this was not a battle at Lahore. Noorullah ( talk) 14:45, 17 April 2024 (UTC) reply
[16] Does not show a battle at Lahore, but mentions Jahan Khan's defeat at an undisclosed location, and only later talks about how Ahmad Shah re-occupied Lahore (presumably in his 1759 October campaign). Noorullah ( talk) 14:47, 17 April 2024 (UTC) reply
That's why I proposed renaming this article, either it should be Jahan Khan invasion of Rohtas or Battle of Rohtas. Coming to Sarkar's reliability which is questionable. Also see WP:RAJ, we can't rely on him as long as we have better sources for the notability of the Battle of Lahore (Battle of Rohtas?).
You do realise [this| https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.98175/page/n361/mode/2up] work of Hari Ram Gupta (published in 1944) is relatively older than his cited work in the article Marathas and Panipat. (published in 1961)? It would be obvious that older sources might not contain more information around this certain event, this is WP:AGE MATTERS.
  • In Marathas and Panipat. p-101 tells us: Jahan Khan rushed to Peshawar, captured Attock, and then advanced towards Rohtas. Sabaji sought help from the Sikhs. The united forces marched against Jahan Khan, whom they encountered on the other side of the Jehlam. In a fierce engagement the Afghan general suffered heavily. He lost his son and a large number of troops, himself receiving several wounds
  • [17] p-260, It also propounds: Thereafter, the invaders overran Attock, then crossed the Indus and threatened the historic fort of Rohtas on the left bank of the Jhelum. By that time, Sabaji Patel reached the place with fresh troops and a large number of the Sikh fighters, who had made a common cause with him against the Afghan infiltrators. The Afghans were defeated by the combined forces of the Marathas and the Sikhs in a pitched battle, in which Jahan Khan lost his son and was himself also wounded. Note Rohtas,Pitched battle and fierce engagement in both of the quotations.
Sudsahab ( talk) 04:49, 18 April 2024 (UTC) reply
But why have a separate article for this at all? It doesn't seem that the sources are discussing it in that way. They're describing it as part of an overall campaign. That tells me the best place for this information is somewhere like Northern Campaign of Raghunath Rao, or whichever other article might fit better. -- asilvering ( talk) 00:21, 19 April 2024 (UTC) reply
I have already quoted the sources which discussed it thoroughly. And no it's not part of Northern Campaign of Raghunath Rao, not to be confused with Capture of Lahore which occurred in 1758 by Raghunath Rao. If merging is an option then I'd suggest merging it to Afghan-Maratha War. But my vote is still keep until someone gives more inputs. Sudsahab ( talk) 14:29, 19 April 2024 (UTC) reply
@ Sudsahab, if it isn't part of Northern Campaign of Raghunath Rao, you should fix the infobox, since that's what it says. -- asilvering ( talk) 00:58, 20 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Alright Sudsahab ( talk) 08:02, 20 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: WP:HEY and to allow further discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hey man im josh ( talk) 14:02, 22 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • I'll just add that the " WP:HEY" was Sudsahab referring to their own edits to the article (seems a bit rich to say this about yourself?), and they have since been blocked as a sockpuppet. So no one is actually arguing this meets the WP:HEY standard. -- asilvering ( talk) 03:56, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    lol. Noorullah ( talk) 19:51, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply

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Social science

Xuanchuan

Xuanchuan (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I don't see the need for this article to stand alone, the current article could well be merged back into propaganda in China in several parts, some of which could be split out and put into Wiktionary. So I think it would be better to merge into Propaganda in China#Terminology. ときさき くるみ not because they are easy, but because they are hard 01:54, 14 April 2024 (UTC) reply

I agree. Especially if you are the one to do the merger - you are a good and careful editor. JArthur1984 ( talk) 17:30, 18 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Oppose owing to unnecessary wordiness. Merging Propaganda in China (7726 words) and Xuanchuan (1560 words) would result in 9286 words, which exceeds the Article size guidelines. Keahapana ( talk) 20:12, 18 April 2024 (UTC) reply
@ Keahapana: This is not a major problem, and given that a lot of the content is in fact duplicated and a significant portion of the xuanchuan content is unsourced, it is entirely possible to trim it down to meet the standard. ときさき くるみ not because they are easy, but because they are hard 05:53, 20 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗ plicit 04:26, 21 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to see if there is more support for a Merge
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:43, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Merge to Propaganda_in_China#Terminology as proposed. This overlaps with that section, and not enough here to make it work doing a fork. There are entire paragraphs in this article that have nothing to do with China or Chinese which can be deleted. Oblivy ( talk) 15:36, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Social science Proposed deletions

Language

List of alternative names for oceans

List of alternative names for oceans (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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WP:NOTDICTIONARY PepperBeast (talk) 12:32, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Woke Mind Virus

Woke Mind Virus (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Feels entirely like WP:NEO. Half the usage section is just dedicated to Elon Musk (at the time of AFD nomination).

Look I understand Go woke, go broke exists, but that feels like WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Is every popular iteration of a phrase invoking the ideas of wokeness going to have its own article?

According to the article, "Vanity Fair has titled whole sections of stories under the "Woke Mind Virus" label." This isn't actually a label that is selectable/catagorized/tagged like "politics", but a custom label for one article.

I do not doubt the phrase's usage in popular media and by influential people, but it is essentially the same thing as woke. I could go on, but I think this can be deleted and redirected to woke. Alternatively, this content can be merged into woke as its own section with the criticism. -- Classicwiki ( talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 01:53, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Keep, since WP:NEO is cited, let us see what it says, Articles on neologisms that have little or no usage in reliable sources are commonly deleted, but in this case this phrase is very widely cited across an enormous variety of reliable sources. The phrase probably should also be mentioned at the woke article and other mentions should be added and included, but a page for Woke Mind Virus itself makes sense given the sources as broad and significant as they are. Iljhgtn ( talk) 02:27, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
@ Iljhgtn, yes it is popular term, this is already addressed. WP:NEO also says, Some neologisms can be in frequent use, and it may be possible to pull together many facts about a particular term and show evidence of its usage on the Internet or in larger society. This is not in question. I do not doubt it will be utilized in large portions of media and scholarly works. Until it is shown to be its own distinct concept, it is essentially a branch term used to criticize wokeness. There is a criticism section in woke that this neologism can direct to in my opinion. Currently, Anti-woke redirects to woke. Anti-woke is an older term than woke mind virus and used it much more media/scholarly works. WMV is just a substitute term for being against wokeness (or anti-woke). Alternatively, I think a separate article that incorporates reliable secondary sources say about the term or concept, not just sources that use the term titled something along the lines of "Criticisms of woke/wokeness" or even "anti-woke" could also be appropriate, where WMV redirects to. I do not see the point of a standalone article about Woke Mind Virus. -- Classicwiki ( talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 02:57, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete or merge/redirect no evidence that this neologism deserves a stand-alone wikipedia article. ( t · c) buidhe 07:39, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Keep: Passes WP:NEO and has coverage by reliable sources. BlakeIsHereStudios ( talk | contributions) 16:04, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Selectively merge and redirect to woke. There's no separate subject here -- it's the same "woke" pejorative discussed in that article. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 16:19, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Weak Redirect, maybe i'm just biased because this is an inherently silly sounding phrase, but I don't see how it differentiates from the term " Woke" so a redirect there would be optimal. Samoht27 ( talk) 16:50, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Merge/redirect to Woke, it's just a slight variation of the exact same thing. Di (they-them) ( talk) 16:58, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Comment: A couple people have suggested a merge or redirect, but I would like to point out that this term "woke mind virus" actually has quite substantial coverage of its own differentiating it quite a bit from "woke" and therefore a mere mention of this term on that page seems to be inadequate. This source mentions the term as distinct but was early in coverage so does not yet mention what WMV means. This source mentions the WMV phrase in depth by itself completely independent of "woke". This source mentions the history of the term, especially as used specifically by Elon Musk since around 2021 and in reference to San Francisco and includes some of the defining language that separates and distinguishes this phrase at is popularly understood by sources, Despite his repeated use of the phrase, the precise meaning of “woke mind virus” has been difficult to pin down. Musk told Bill Maher during an interview on HBO: “I think we need to be very cautious about anything that is anti-meritocratic, and anything that … results in the suppression of free speech. Those are two aspects of the woke mind virus that I think are very dangerous.” This source speaks uniquely of the WMV by saying much about Musk's use of it from a critical perspective. This source again uses both "woke" as well as WMV and refers to them as distinct terms with their own meanings. This source predominantly focuses on just the "woke" phrase but has an important passing mention of WMV, though obviously passing mentions in general are not to carry weight towards an AfD consideration. This source covers the phrase and the Netflix mention with some detail. I believe the above, and much more can be found with fairly little work and effort actually to support an independent page for both the WMV phrase as well as woke and other phrases mentioned by other editors. Iljhgtn ( talk) 19:19, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • A lot of these sources are not reliable, though. ( t · c) buidhe 15:14, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    This article from The Wall Street Journal leading on this subject in a very strong WP:SIGCOV manner. This article from Rolling Stone discusses the term/phrase with both Musk as well as Bill Maher's involvement and contributions. This article from fact-checking website Snopes cites the Webster dictionary definition of " woke" independent of the subsequent mention of "woke mind virus" which the article then explores in depth further on going back to its seeming origins (related to Musk at least) from 2021, The first mention of the words "woke mind virus" that we could find in Musk's feed showed up in December 2021. There is much, much, more out there on the internet as well that can be easily found. The "no evidence" claim seems to have not sufficiently considered WP:BEFORE. Iljhgtn ( talk) 19:37, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    Per WP:NOPAGE we also need to consider if this topic benefits from being a stand alone article rather than being covered in the woke article. Evidence for this theory is what I think is lacking. ( t · c) buidhe 06:37, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as the phrase is not really notable and similar phrases already exist. It's just a variation of the term woke. There exists multiple variations of this same term and they do not have their own unique articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Asaduzzaman Khan Shahriar ( talk • contribs) 11:44, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep I understand the concerns of the UNDUE weight given to the Elon Musk section, but that's not the purpose of AfD. Further, given the deletion rational of NEO, I think it's easy to examine the references provided in the article and in an independent search that the term woke mind virus meets notability independently from woke and is an appropriate topic split. microbiologyMarcus petri dish· growths 14:57, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Bosnian names of primate families

Bosnian names of primate families (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Violates WP:DICDEF. Occidental𓍝Phantasmagoria [ T/ C] 17:17, 24 April 2024 (UTC) reply

List of translations of The Lord of the Rings

List of translations of The Lord of the Rings (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Not every bit of LOTR minutiae needs to be recorded here, fails WP:LISTN as a subject that hasn't received significant attention as a group, No idea why "Elrond's library", a French shop, is in the lead singled out as a source for this either. Fram ( talk) 14:46, 24 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Science fiction and fantasy, Language, Literature, and Lists. Fram ( talk) 14:46, 24 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, this is certainly not "minutiae", but a remarkable indication of the novel's importance. The source you mention is really just a footnote or aside, it has no special importance. If editors really don't want a stand-alone list, then of course we can merge it back to Translating The Lord of the Rings, but that seems quite extreme to me. Chiswick Chap ( talk) 15:30, 24 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    Not sure a list is more of an indication of importance than a summary thereof would be (e.g. "It has been translated into X languages as of year Y"). TompaDompa ( talk) 15:34, 24 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    It's certainly a far better substantiated indication; and of course it allows readers to check for themselves in whichever language they may happen to be interested. I may note that this list has existed in some form since 2008: it has been edited by many hands. Chiswick Chap ( talk) 15:49, 24 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    Yes. But the fact that the article The Lord of the Rings lists links to 113 translations. The figure of 113 is already a "remarkable indication of the novel's importance". Anyone interested in these translations can find all that they want to know by following the appropriate links. So my recommendation would be delete. Athel cb ( talk) 16:38, 24 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. This is one of those articles that has no better home. Wikipedia provides for list articles, and this one satisfies the conditions. Indeed, this provision seems to explicitly rationalize lists like this one: The entirety of the list does not need to be documented in sources for notability, only that the grouping or set in general has been. Because the group or set is notable, the individual entries in the list do not need to be independently notable, although editors may, at their discretion. I read Wikipedia’s acceptance of lists to be quite broad, since the guidelines discuss such acceptable topics as lists of plants in some obscure taxa, lists of words, and so forth, and explicitly states that the individual list elements need not be notable. The reason Wikipedia is the best home for this material is that a scholarly source would not be up-to-date, while copying from them could be copyright violation, since it would be significant content copied in its entirety. Meanwhile, fan sites regularly go belly-up, leaving a gap in cataloging important literature. The list notability guidelines provide for this kind of list: The remarkable diversity of translations has been noted in scholarly circles many times (these references are needed in the article, such as from List_of_translations_of_The_Lord_of_the_Rings). Given the precedence and guidelines on Wikipedia, I do not see this article as being a candidate for deletion — certainly not until lists of less general interest get cleaned out and the guidelines get tightened to exclude, rather than include, this kind of list. Strebe ( talk) 17:03, 24 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Speedy Keep The fact that a novel was translated to over 57 languages should automatically make a list like this notable- that is amazing in itself. HadesTTW (he/him •  talk) 19:01, 24 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Please read WP:NLIST. While being translated into 57 different languages is certainly impressive, how impressive something is isn't a valid inclusion criteria for lists. Industrial Insect (talk) 18:38, 25 April 2024 (UTC) reply
@ Industrial Insect: That may be so, but WP:NLIST is fulfilled based on other criteria (see above and below). Daranios ( talk) 11:21, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Italian language in Romania

Italian language in Romania (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Not really about the Italian language in Romania. It’s mostly a coatrack about Italians in Romania and about the similarities between Romanian and Italian. Biruitorul Talk 21:15, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Merge with Italians in Romania per WP:ATD. Most of the article seems to be about Italians in Romania, with only a fraction about what the article should be about. Thus merge it and move the content actually about the the Romanian and Italian languages to a section of Italians in Romania or a section under Romanian or Italian. Flemmish Nietzsche ( talk) 22:07, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Merge per nom and per Flemmish Nietzsche. Article is not mainly of its topic and has a lot of unsourced information. I don't think the topic is notable to justify its split from Italians in Romania, it's not like the language is very present in the country. Super Ψ Dro 22:14, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep part of it, merge the rest. The sections on the languages should be kept. The various sections about other topics, like Italian Emigration to Romania, belong in the article for Italians in Romania. I can see an argument for merging the language sections with that article but I do think that the language elements are worthy of their own article. Lamona ( talk) 04:07, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Comment: Why is Italians in Romania a preferable redirect target over Languages of Romania? IgnatiusofLondon (he/him • ☎️) 13:58, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Italian isn't listed there as a language used in Romania. I don't know why that is, but it seems to be based on something like census data. If Italian doesn't show in official statistics it probably shouldn't be addressed there. Lamona ( talk) 14:31, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply
According to the latest census, there are 4105 native speakers of Italian in Romania. Biruitorul Talk 19:09, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply

French exonyms

French exonyms (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Wikipedia is not a dictionary. I am also nominating the following related pages for the same reason:

List of French exonyms for Dutch toponyms (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
List of French exonyms for German toponyms (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
List of French exonyms for Italian toponyms (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

PepperBeast (talk) 13:11, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Language, Geography, Lists, and Europe. PepperBeast (talk) 13:11, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as WP:LISTCRUFT, not to mention being entirely unsourced. ---- D'n'B- t -- 14:11, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Speedy Keep this was just closed as no consensus a couple weeks ago, and has been re-nominated by the same nominator. Definitely a WP:TROUT or possibly even sanctions may be in order. SportingFlyer T· C 18:07, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    > just closed as no consensus a couple weeks ago
    That's... that's the point of re-nominating. To... create consensus where it wasn't possible to do so before. BrigadierG ( talk) 18:47, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    No, the mass deletion of all exonym listicles failed to reach consensus, so they are now listed separately. —Tamfang ( talk) 19:29, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    Oh. Well, that's still ridiculous then. The UN has a working group specifically on French exonyms, as does the French government, showing this is a valid encyclopedic topic. I don't know how any of you are getting to WP:NOTDICTIONARY here - these are not definitions or dictionary entries but rather valid lists - and WP:LISTCRUFT is simply an "i don't like it" argument. SportingFlyer T· C 19:34, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    Well, an article on the working group might be interesting. But how is an endless list of French words for places more worthy than a list of French words for spices or engine parts? —Tamfang ( talk) 20:02, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    or Bosnian names of primate families —Tamfang ( talk) 02:15, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    In that link, the author refers to the project as an attempt to create a database. Sure would be a shame if there was a policy called WP:NOTDATABASE. BrigadierG ( talk) 20:23, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    This isn't a database, though, it's a valid WP:LIST. SportingFlyer T· C 22:04, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    In most of our lists, most of the entries have their own articles. Is there any prospect of an article about the French word for Bangkok? —Tamfang ( talk) 22:12, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    WP:NLIST specifically says the entries in the list do not need to be notable enough for their own article, just that the group or set is notable. A simple Google scholar search lends more credibility to the fact this set is notable, such as [1] [2] [3], including (but not linking here) two articles on French exonyms for Polish place names. SportingFlyer T· C 23:05, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    … I meant to add: no consensus because not all such listicles are equally trivial, i.e., some do more than belabor the obvious fact that each language adapts foreign words (including placenames) to its own phonology and orthography. —Tamfang ( talk) 20:04, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    Quite true. There was no consensus because there was simply too much in the nom for one discussion. My bad. So, I'm going back through the area in a more rational way. Re-listing when no consensus emerges is what's supposed to happen. PepperBeast (talk) 20:36, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Delete - I agree with nominator, this is a case of WP:NOTDICTIONARY BrigadierG ( talk) 18:48, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shadow311 ( talk) 20:17, 13 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: No consensus. Please include a link to any previous AFDs concerning these articles.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:58, 20 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel ( talk) 03:54, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • It's still notable, there are plenty of sources available, needs improvement, not deletion. SportingFlyer T· C 04:27, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    Could you make that more specific? Notable why, what sort of improvement? —Tamfang ( talk) 20:18, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply

List of French words of English origin

List of French words of English origin (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Wikipedia is not a dictionary.

I am also nominating the following related pages for the same reason:

List of French words of Gaulish origin (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
List of French words of Germanic origin (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
List of French words of Germanic origin (A-B) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
List of French words of Germanic origin (C-G) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
List of French words of Germanic origin (H–Z) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

PepperBeast (talk) 22:25, 5 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Do you think it would be a good idea to move it to Wiktionary instead? Obviously these articles have value, so I think we should retain them, but in the other wiki. איתן קרסנטי ( talk) 06:59, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply
I'm not familiar enough with Wiktionary policies to have an opinion. PepperBeast (talk) 12:24, 6 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:52, 9 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Mae yr erthygl hon yn cynnwys llawer o eiriau sydd yn debyg iawn i eiriau Cymraeg (sydd hefyd yn iaith Geltaidd) sydd ddim yn dod o eiriau Lladin na Saesneg. Felly rydw i yn sicr ei fod yn adnodd pwysig iawn i'w chadw fel cofnod o eiriau Ffrangeg sydd yn dod o hen iaith Gaul, felly dylai gael ei chadw er mwyn ei phwysicrwydd. Nid yn unig oherwydd diwylliant Ffrangeg, ond y ddiwylliant Geltaidd sydd yn gorchuddio llawer o Orllewin Ewrop, yn cynnwys Sbaen, Y Wlad Belg, Y Swisdir, Gogledd Yr Eidal, a Gorllewin a De'r Almaen. Wrth ddileu'r dudalen hon, rydym yn dileu darn pwysig o'n hanes a'n diwylliant.
This article contains many words that are very similar to Welsh words (which is also a Celtic language) which do not come from Latin or English. Therefore I am certain it is a very important resource to be kept as a record of French and Celtic words that come from the old language of Gaul, so should be kept because of its importance. Not only for its importance in French heritage, but also for Celtic heritage which spans most of Western Europe, including Spain, Belgium, Switzerland, the North of Italy, and the West and South of Germany. Gareth ap Emyr ( talk) 21:59, 12 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Comment: Well, it's Euro-centric. The Academie Francaise isn't representative of French in Quebec, the Office de la Langue Francaise sets suggestions for Quebec French, which is mostly what we use here in Canada. This would need a rewrite for a more global view and most of this is unsourced. There's something here, but I'm not sure even a draft would fix this. Oaktree b ( talk) 00:03, 10 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    A selfie is égoportrait [4], literally an ego-portrait. I suppose we could draft it, but this would be a project. Oaktree b ( talk) 00:08, 10 April 2024 (UTC) reply

If we were to delete this one, we'd also have to delete all similar articles, and there's a lot (five just for the lists of English of French origin). I've never encountered such lists on the Wiktionary, but it would indeed maybe make more sense to have these there. But in the end it wouldn't make any major difference. Ulysse Verjus-Tonnelé ( talk) 01:10, 13 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Nevermind they do exist on Wiktionary actually! https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:English_terms_derived_from_French Ulysse Verjus-Tonnelé ( talk) 01:13, 13 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Same for French words https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:French_terms_derived_from_English Ulysse Verjus-Tonnelé ( talk) 01:17, 13 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Keep the opening context and various ancillary information are not adequately covered by the relevant Wiktionary categories. It is desirable to expand these articles into something like Influence of French on English which is an encyclopedic discussion of the topic and not just a list, but these lists are better than nothing and better than a link to a Wiktionary category. Eluchil404 ( talk) 03:10, 16 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: No consensus here yet to take any particular action with this bundled nomination.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:13, 16 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Delete To be honest I'd just delete the lot of them, these seem too niche to be of interest here, without some further scholarly discussion around these words, which seem to be missing from the article. Oaktree b ( talk) 23:26, 16 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Draftify per @ Eluchil404:'s recommendation of expanding the article to be similar to Influence of French on English. It has problems with the way it's currently written, but it isn't unrecoverable. Ships & Space( Edits) 01:40, 17 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist. No consensus yet.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:04, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Prodded articles


History

Ladysmith – Naval Brigade Dragging 4.7 Guns into Ladysmith

Ladysmith – Naval Brigade Dragging 4.7 Guns into Ladysmith (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No indication that this is a notable film (well, a 31 second static shot). Apparently not only have we no idea who actually made it (just the producre), but we also don't know what is being shown according to this. Perhaps some list for this and many similar non-notable shorts may be feasible, but at the moment I don't see a good redirect target. Perhaps William Kennedy Dickson filmography, which gives an idea of the number of such ultrashort films that were made (and is clearly incomplete, as e.g. this very one isn't on that list). Fram ( talk) 07:42, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Nationalisms Across the Globe

Nationalisms Across the Globe (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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There is very little to indicate that this book series is notable. While individual books and authors might be notable (as shown by reviews, citations, and scholarly coverage), there is nothing to indicate that this is notable as a "book series". This stands in contrast to for example The Cambridge History of the British Empire, which is covered by RS as a notable book series. Thenightaway ( talk) 16:08, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Battle of Ajmer

Battle of Ajmer (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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There is no such a battle named "Battle of Ajmer" in any of the WP:RS nor any Historians named a battle as "Battle of Ajmer" between Mher tribe and Ghurids. The article body talks about a conflict between Mher tribe and Ghurids, whereas the infobox describes Rajputs as the belligerents. Neither from the source of R. C Majumdar, nor from Romila Thapar, I could even find a scattered line about this event. The actual event per cited is the prelude of Battle of Kasahrada (1197). The current content could be added into this parent article (edit: it is already present the background section). Fails WP:GNG, and not found any RS calling the event by the name of "Battle of Ajmer". Imperial [AFCND] 05:55, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Military, Geography, and India. Imperial [AFCND] 05:55, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Rajasthan-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 11:22, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Draftify or Very Weak Keep. The sources from Majumdar and Thapar, like ImperialAficionado I too could not verify or find on this Battle and would have opted for delete but the source from Dr Ashoka Srivastav from Department of history at University of Gorakhpur had me hanging from where the page got its attribution from. There is need for improvement on this page and some more detail that is missing or wrong about the battle, siege, and the belligerents. From Srivastav Belligerents were Mhers, many Hindu Rajas, Raja of Nagor, Raja of Nahrwala. It does not say Rajputs. More sources will help too. RangersRus ( talk) 14:11, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Battle of Kalanaur (1748)

Battle of Kalanaur (1748) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The sources on this page almost all deal with WP:RAJ, with many of the sources (including Singh), tracing back to the Panth Prakash, which fails WP:RAJ. Some of these sources don't even state that such a thing happened, and nor do any other major sources regarding this campaign such as Hari Ram Gupta. Noorullah ( talk) 22:27, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply

For example, here's Hari Ram Gupta, who is a major historian in this region and has no recollection of such events whatsoever. [5] Singh (who relies on Prakash as stated on page 49) [6] Noorullah ( talk) 22:28, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Military, India, and Punjab. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 02:25, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete: Copy and paste of previous AFD vote- Over the past year, these topic areas have been inundated with poorly written and sourced articles that paid no heed to neutrality, proper sourcing, or historical accuracy, but rather on aggrandizing their religion as much as possible. Tactics included an over reliance on primary sources and ref spamming Google books snippets or sources which only made negligible mention of topic at hand. This article is one of the many, many examples. Southasianhistorian8 ( talk) 04:01, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Battle of Chamkaur (1764)

Battle of Chamkaur (1764) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Extremely unreliable sources including over-reliance on primary sources that still fall under WP:RAJ such as Panth Prakash, also extremely exaggerated in numbers (1 million?) Noorullah ( talk) 22:51, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Military, India, and Punjab. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 02:21, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete: Over the past year, these topic areas have been inundated with poorly written and sourced articles that paid no heed to neutrality, proper sourcing, or historical accuracy, but rather on aggrandizing their religion as much as possible. Tactics included an over reliance on primary sources and ref spamming Google books snippets or sources which only made negligible mention of topic at hand. This article is one of the many, many examples. Southasianhistorian8 ( talk) 03:39, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Battle of Chenab

Battle of Chenab (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Another page littered with unreliable sources. Hari Ram Gupta doesn't even say he was defeated at all (which the page misleads you by citing it did), removed if you check now on my newest revision. Noorullah ( talk) 22:56, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Hari Ram Gupta being the only reliable source on the page shows that the Afghans had instead routed and pursued the Sikhs. [7] Noorullah ( talk) 22:58, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Also had to remove numerous unreliable sources, including one of them being a near copy paste. [8] Noorullah ( talk) 23:03, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Marion Evans

Marion Evans (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG. Flounder fillet ( talk) 20:21, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply

David Madden (Jeopardy! contestant)

AfDs for this article:
David Madden (Jeopardy! contestant) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Redirect to List of Jeopardy! contestants#David Madden, or Delete. Case of WP:BLP1E that was previously deleted Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David Madden (Jeopardy! contestant) (2nd nomination), but it was recreated. Referencing is very poor (there are no quality RS that cover the subject in any SIGOV outside of being in lists of famous winners). I tagged the article a year ago and suggested it should be redirected as IPs were constantly adding badly referenced WP:PROMO material about his other business interests, but when I WP:BOLDLY redirected it a few days ago, having not had any response to my notices, User:Robert McClenon felt it was better to send to AfD. Aszx5000 ( talk) 09:49, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Only seeing now that it was also at AfD a third time (that AfD wasn't logged on the Talk Page) where it was kept Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David Madden (Jeopardy! contestant) (3rd nomination). Having read the sourcing that was provided for the 3rd AfD, I think it was pretty weak, and a redirect, to his entry on List of Jeopardy! contestants#David Madden would be a better solution. Aszx5000 ( talk) 09:56, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. The subject passes Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria, which says:

    People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject.

    • If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not usually sufficient to establish notability.
    Sources
    1. McNear, Claire (2020). Answers in the Form of Questions: A Definitive History and Insider's Guide to Jeopardy!. New York: Twelve. ISBN  978-1-5387-0232-1. Retrieved 2024-04-29 – via Google Books.

      The book notes about Bruce Lou: "As a student, he’d done quiz bowl, the team trivia competition often found in scholastic settings, and won the National History Bee—a contest organized by David Madden, who was a nineteen-time Jeopardy! champion in 2005—and Lou found himself missing the competition."

      The book notes: "As Watson entered crunch time, Jeopardy! granted IBM access to notable champions from years past, including nineteen-time winner David Madden, whose streak was second only to Ken Jennings’s at the time. Madden played two games against Watson.“"

      The book notes: "A number of Jeopardy! alumni’s new chapters, perhaps unsurprisingly, have to do with trivia. David Madden was a twentythree-year-old grad student when he first played, and as he left the studio after his twentieth game with vouchers totaling more than $430,000, he wasn’t sure what he wanted to do. ... A quiz bowl alum, he ultimately used his winnings as seed money to found International Academic Competitions, which hosts, among other things, the annual National History Bee and Bowl."

      The book notes: "David Madden, the nineteen-time champion, remembers auditioning in the Jeopardy! studio in May 2004. With him was a friend named Jeff Hoppes, who was called to be on the show just before Madden and ultimately became one of the final victims of Ken Jennings, coming in second in the seventieth game of Jennings's seventy-four-game winning streak. Hoppes, Madden says, first played quiz bowl in high school when he was a classmate of Rutter's, and then went on to marry eventual six-time Jeopardy! champion and Tournament of Champions runner-up Larissa Kelly. Madden, Rutter, and Kelly made up the winning team in the All-Star Games."

    2. Grant, Meghan (2019-03-04). "'Jeopardy!' All-Star Games finals include Ridgewood native". North Jersey Media Group. Archived from the original on 2024-04-29. Retrieved 2024-04-29.

      The article notes: "This Bergen County person is competing in the "Jeopardy!" All-Star Games this week. ... Who is former champion David Madden of Ridgewood? Among the former champs will be Madden, a member of Team Brad, one of the six trios of top players in the tournament. ... Back in 2005-2006, Madden won $432,400 in 19 rounds in a row — the third-longest winning streak in the game — earning a rank among "Jeopardy!" top players. ... Madden founded International Academic Competitions, running about a dozen contests in 30 countries, including the National History Bee and National Science Bee, hosting tens of thousands of students. Former players have gone on to "Jeopardy!" teen and college tournaments, and five staffers have won on the show."

    3. Grant, Meghan (2019-03-05). "Ridgewood native David Madden and Team Brad win 'Jeopardy!' All-Star Games". North Jersey Media Group. Archived from the original on 2024-04-29. Retrieved 2024-04-29.

      The article notes: "Ridgewood native David Madden and his partners on Team Brad won a decisive victory on "Jeopardy!" All-Star Games, and the $1 million prize. ... Madden earned a spot on the All-Star Games roster by winning 19 rounds in a row in 2005 and 2006, the third-longest winning streak in the show’s history. He was “drafted” by team leader Brad Rutter, along with Madden’s former Princeton classmate, Larissa Kelly. ... Madden used some of his first "Jeopardy!" winnings, a $432,400 pot, as start-up money, going on to found International Academic Competitions."

    4. Coutros, Evonnie (2005-09-23). "Ridgewood grad strikes it rich on 'Jeopardy!'". The Record. Archived from the original on 2024-04-29. Retrieved 2024-04-29 – via Newspapers.com.

      The article notes: "Former Ridgewood resident David Madden hit the jackpot this month, but it wasn't in the lottery. Madden, a 1999 graduate of Ridgewood High, had a 19-day winning streak on "Jeopardy!" and walked away from the game show with more than $430,000 in cash. Madden, 24, a graduate of Princeton University, lost to a 24-year-old self-employed musician from Decatur, Ga. The episode aired earlier this week. ... Madden, who now lives in Berlin, is studying for an advanced degree in international relations at Frei University."

    5. Daugherty, Haley (2023-02-17). "Greater Latrobe Senior High School to host national quiz competition". Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. Archived from the original on 2024-04-29. Retrieved 2024-04-29.

      The article notes: "International Academic Competitions was started in 2010 by Jeopardy winner David Madden. He and his wife, Nolwenn Madden act as executive directors and they expanded the competition globally in 2012."

    6. Adams, Caralee J. (2013-07-01). "Reviving History Instruction: What's Old Is New Again". Education Week. Archived from the original on 2024-04-29. Retrieved 2024-04-29.

      The article notes: "With the goal of engaging students more deeply in history, David Madden, a “Jeopardy” champion and former high school and college quiz-bowl player, established the National History Bee & Bowl in 2010. Now in about 2,000 schools—elementary through high—individual Bee competitions and Bowl events are held throughout the country. Mr. Madden, 31, discovered there was plenty of demand."

    7. Ferguson, Mike (2014-02-08). "'I'll take history for $1,000, Alex': Founder of history bowl attends Montana competition". Billings Gazette. Archived from the original on 2024-04-29. Retrieved 2024-04-29.

      The article notes: "Montana high school history buffs can thank David Madden’s 19-day winning streak on the game show “Jeopardy!” nine years ago for the chance to show off their own knowledge Saturday at Skyview High School. Madden, 32, is founder and executive director of the National History Bee and Bowl, an individual and team competition with about 50,000 participants in more than 200 places around the country and overseas, too. About 60 students competed all day Saturday in the state championship held in Skyview’s theater. ... Madden, a graduate of Princeton University, founded the organization four years ago on his more than $400,000 in winnings on America’s most famous quiz show."

    8. Zarnowski, Tatiana (2011-02-28). "Saratoga Springs competition will test knowledge of history". The Daily Gazette. Archived from the original on 2014-07-22. Retrieved 2024-04-29.

      The article notes: "National History Bowl and Bee, a private, for-profit startup company, is based in Ridgewood, N.J., where owner David Madden is from. The company conducted a pilot competition there in May. In 2005, Madden reigned in a 20-game run on “Jeopardy!,” the second-longest ever after Ken Jennings, who had a 74-game winning streak."

    9. Strauss, Robert (2005-10-09). "Worth Noting; I'll Take Quiz Kids For $600, Alex". The New York Times. Archived from the original on 2024-04-29. Retrieved 2024-04-29.

      The article notes: "Mr. Madden was the captain of the Quiz Bowl team at Ridgewood High, and was on a similar freshman team at Princeton."

    10. Pakkala, Tiffany (2008-01-10). "'Jeopardy' winner turns to hiking with a purpose". Savannah Morning News. Archived from the original on 2024-04-29. Retrieved 2024-04-29.

      The article notes: ""Jeopardy" fans remember him as the calculating young trivia expert who won 19 times on the game show and left with winnings more than $442,000, in part because he sought out the "Daily Double" early to maximize his cash. Now David Madden, 26, is crunching numbers for a different reason: He's hiking 3,000 miles to help raise money for a group that offers free and low-cost lodging to hospitalized soldiers and their families."

    There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow David Madden to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

    Cunard ( talk) 05:35, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Which of these refs is WP:SIGCOV on the subject in a major regional/national media outlet - none.
No main regional or national American news outlet thinks he is notable enough to do a piece on him - if they don't think he is notable, why do we?
Passing mentions, and mostly for the BLP1E, in small media outlets, is not the General notability guideline. If that was the case we could get rid of BLP1E as a guideline as most cases have such coverage. Aszx5000 ( talk) 08:11, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply
The subject received significant coverage in 2005, 2008, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2019, 2020, and 2023. A person who falls under WP:BLP1E does not receive sustained significant coverage over 18 years for his activities.

He was a nineteen-time Jeopardy! champion in 2005. He founded the International Academic Competitions, which hosts the annual National History Bee and Bowl. He competed in and with his partners won the "Jeopardy!" All-Star Games in 2019. A person who has received significant coverage for multiple events does not fall under WP:BLP1E.

The subject is from New Jersey. The subject received significant coverage in a 2020 book published by Twelve. He received significant coverage in a 2014 article in Billings Gazette, the largest newspaper in Montana. He received significant coverage in a 2008 article in the Savannah Morning News, a regional newspaper that covers the Savannah metropolitan area and parts of South Carolina. He easily meets Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline and Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria.

Cunard ( talk) 08:28, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply

But he hasn't received any significant coverage. If WP:GNG was "significant number of passing mentions in non-national/regional sources", then he would be a keep. But the requirement is for "significant coverage", and in quality sources (of which there is also none).
I could create an AI to scan 3rd tier US media to find names briefly mentioned (many of which will have a BLP1E element), and I could create 1 million more Wikipedia BLPs in the morning, but I would probably be in ANI shortly after.
No encyclopedia outside of Jeopardy! fan sites, will ever have an article on this subject. His entry on List of Jeopardy! contestants#David Madden captures everything that is notable about his BLP1E. Aszx5000 ( talk) 09:11, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Sources such as Pakkala 2008, Ferguson 2014, Grant 2019a, and McClear 2020 are not passing mentions. Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria says, "multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability". Cunard ( talk) 10:00, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Comment: There is no requirement on WP:SIGCOV for sources to be "a major regional/national media outlet"; topics can be covered locally and still be notable. WP:NOTPAPER. — Ost ( talk) 21:16, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply

X (automobile)

X (automobile) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This car/brand does not meet WP:N. I am unable to find any other sourcing, and the given source is only a listing that says "X (France) (1908-1909)." The article went unsourced for 18 years and the text has not been expanded upon since its original creation. Even given the age of this, it does not seem to have any claim to importance or historical significance since it existed for a year at most and "little is known about the marque." StreetcarEnjoyer (talk) 21:25, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply

History of the Jews in Mauritania

History of the Jews in Mauritania (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The vast majority of sources about Jews in the context of "Mauritania" are discussing Jews in the Roman provinces of " Mauretania," which encompass the north of present-day Morocco and Algeria, not Mauritania proper. The Jewish people don't appear to have ever had much of a presence in what is now Mauritania. There isn't much material to expand the article with, just minor controversies regarding recent antisemitic statements and sentiments in the country, which I believe shouldn't be what makes up the article. Mooonswimmer 15:19, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Delete: As per nominator. Strong delete: Fails WP:GNG, WP:RS and WP:V. Not just does this page contains antisemetic, proslavery and psyeudohistoric rhetoric that is potentially harmful, it is poorly sourced with one of the sources pointing to Wikipedia as its source ( see here). Without the harmful commentary there's just nothing left for a standalone page. BlakeIsHereStudios ( talk | contributions) 15:58, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete poorly sourced, anti-Semetic and pro-slavery rhetoric which shouldn't even be in the article, not to mention pseudohistory. One of the sources points to Wikipedia as its source ( scroll down to the bottom). The Arabo-Berbers of present-day Mauritania in West Africa were immigrants to the that country, from what is now Morocco as per the nom's mention above. Mauritania in West Africa (or North West Africa), should not be confused with the historical province of Mauretania (Northern Africa), where the present-day country in West Africa takes its name, following the Arabo-Berber invasion and settlement in that area–several centuries later, and not in 70 CE. Delete the anti-Semetic and slavery commentary and there would be nothing left in this article, because there is nothing else that supports a stand-alone article. Article fails WP:GNG, WP:RS, and Wikipedia:Verifiability. Tamsier ( talk) 18:20, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Kharavela's conquests and invasions

Kharavela's conquests and invasions (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Copy of Draft:Kharvela's conquests and invasions (created by now-blocked User:Logical pharaoh). The article is heavily promotional, and uncritically follows the only primary source ( Hathigumpha inscription) with some added embellishing. I'd recommend WP:TNT if there was a need for a separate article from Kharavela, but there doesn't seem to be, as the topic is already treated in context at Kharavela#Biography. Chaotıċ Enby ( talk · contribs) 13:37, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Delete: Article is built on WP:SYNTH, combining up different records of conflicts of Kharvela into a single infobox. Latest sources barely covers the area, fails WP:GNG, and synth is used.-- Imperial [AFCND] 15:03, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Military, and India. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 15:11, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • delete Besides problems listed above, the tone of the text is hopelessly bad.It would be better to start from scratch with decent recent sources than merge any of this. Mangoe ( talk) 19:32, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete: Article is very poorly written and has major WP:NPOV issues, and in addition to the listed issues, at this point should just be blown up. Flemmish Nietzsche ( talk) 16:19, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as per nomination. Grabup ( talk) 16:46, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete, appears to be a synth riddled OR microbiologyMarcus petri dish· growths 18:38, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Manuel París Ricaurte

Manuel París Ricaurte (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Guy has a messy and (and coincidentally, also unsourced) wikipedia article on spanish wikipedia, which I cut. Not really enough sources to establish anything beyond the fact that this guy exists, which is, unfortunately, not enough for WP:GNG. Allan Nonymous ( talk) 04:08, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Woke Mind Virus

Woke Mind Virus (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Feels entirely like WP:NEO. Half the usage section is just dedicated to Elon Musk (at the time of AFD nomination).

Look I understand Go woke, go broke exists, but that feels like WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Is every popular iteration of a phrase invoking the ideas of wokeness going to have its own article?

According to the article, "Vanity Fair has titled whole sections of stories under the "Woke Mind Virus" label." This isn't actually a label that is selectable/catagorized/tagged like "politics", but a custom label for one article.

I do not doubt the phrase's usage in popular media and by influential people, but it is essentially the same thing as woke. I could go on, but I think this can be deleted and redirected to woke. Alternatively, this content can be merged into woke as its own section with the criticism. -- Classicwiki ( talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 01:53, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Keep, since WP:NEO is cited, let us see what it says, Articles on neologisms that have little or no usage in reliable sources are commonly deleted, but in this case this phrase is very widely cited across an enormous variety of reliable sources. The phrase probably should also be mentioned at the woke article and other mentions should be added and included, but a page for Woke Mind Virus itself makes sense given the sources as broad and significant as they are. Iljhgtn ( talk) 02:27, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
@ Iljhgtn, yes it is popular term, this is already addressed. WP:NEO also says, Some neologisms can be in frequent use, and it may be possible to pull together many facts about a particular term and show evidence of its usage on the Internet or in larger society. This is not in question. I do not doubt it will be utilized in large portions of media and scholarly works. Until it is shown to be its own distinct concept, it is essentially a branch term used to criticize wokeness. There is a criticism section in woke that this neologism can direct to in my opinion. Currently, Anti-woke redirects to woke. Anti-woke is an older term than woke mind virus and used it much more media/scholarly works. WMV is just a substitute term for being against wokeness (or anti-woke). Alternatively, I think a separate article that incorporates reliable secondary sources say about the term or concept, not just sources that use the term titled something along the lines of "Criticisms of woke/wokeness" or even "anti-woke" could also be appropriate, where WMV redirects to. I do not see the point of a standalone article about Woke Mind Virus. -- Classicwiki ( talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 02:57, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete or merge/redirect no evidence that this neologism deserves a stand-alone wikipedia article. ( t · c) buidhe 07:39, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Keep: Passes WP:NEO and has coverage by reliable sources. BlakeIsHereStudios ( talk | contributions) 16:04, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Selectively merge and redirect to woke. There's no separate subject here -- it's the same "woke" pejorative discussed in that article. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 16:19, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Weak Redirect, maybe i'm just biased because this is an inherently silly sounding phrase, but I don't see how it differentiates from the term " Woke" so a redirect there would be optimal. Samoht27 ( talk) 16:50, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Merge/redirect to Woke, it's just a slight variation of the exact same thing. Di (they-them) ( talk) 16:58, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Comment: A couple people have suggested a merge or redirect, but I would like to point out that this term "woke mind virus" actually has quite substantial coverage of its own differentiating it quite a bit from "woke" and therefore a mere mention of this term on that page seems to be inadequate. This source mentions the term as distinct but was early in coverage so does not yet mention what WMV means. This source mentions the WMV phrase in depth by itself completely independent of "woke". This source mentions the history of the term, especially as used specifically by Elon Musk since around 2021 and in reference to San Francisco and includes some of the defining language that separates and distinguishes this phrase at is popularly understood by sources, Despite his repeated use of the phrase, the precise meaning of “woke mind virus” has been difficult to pin down. Musk told Bill Maher during an interview on HBO: “I think we need to be very cautious about anything that is anti-meritocratic, and anything that … results in the suppression of free speech. Those are two aspects of the woke mind virus that I think are very dangerous.” This source speaks uniquely of the WMV by saying much about Musk's use of it from a critical perspective. This source again uses both "woke" as well as WMV and refers to them as distinct terms with their own meanings. This source predominantly focuses on just the "woke" phrase but has an important passing mention of WMV, though obviously passing mentions in general are not to carry weight towards an AfD consideration. This source covers the phrase and the Netflix mention with some detail. I believe the above, and much more can be found with fairly little work and effort actually to support an independent page for both the WMV phrase as well as woke and other phrases mentioned by other editors. Iljhgtn ( talk) 19:19, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • A lot of these sources are not reliable, though. ( t · c) buidhe 15:14, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    This article from The Wall Street Journal leading on this subject in a very strong WP:SIGCOV manner. This article from Rolling Stone discusses the term/phrase with both Musk as well as Bill Maher's involvement and contributions. This article from fact-checking website Snopes cites the Webster dictionary definition of " woke" independent of the subsequent mention of "woke mind virus" which the article then explores in depth further on going back to its seeming origins (related to Musk at least) from 2021, The first mention of the words "woke mind virus" that we could find in Musk's feed showed up in December 2021. There is much, much, more out there on the internet as well that can be easily found. The "no evidence" claim seems to have not sufficiently considered WP:BEFORE. Iljhgtn ( talk) 19:37, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    Per WP:NOPAGE we also need to consider if this topic benefits from being a stand alone article rather than being covered in the woke article. Evidence for this theory is what I think is lacking. ( t · c) buidhe 06:37, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as the phrase is not really notable and similar phrases already exist. It's just a variation of the term woke. There exists multiple variations of this same term and they do not have their own unique articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Asaduzzaman Khan Shahriar ( talk • contribs) 11:44, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep I understand the concerns of the UNDUE weight given to the Elon Musk section, but that's not the purpose of AfD. Further, given the deletion rational of NEO, I think it's easy to examine the references provided in the article and in an independent search that the term woke mind virus meets notability independently from woke and is an appropriate topic split. microbiologyMarcus petri dish· growths 14:57, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Western Caribbean zone

Western Caribbean zone (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This reads somewhat similar to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Southern Caribbean in that it fails to identify a specific, notable topic. Searching for "Western Caribbean zone" yields no useful results at all, and while the sources here are citations for specific facts, I can't find anything that discusses this as a region as a whole. Describing these historical eras seems like original research when combining what happened in some places over a long time without being able to describe their relationships to a specific region, rather than just about Central America or History of Central America with a bit of adjacent Mexico and Colombia tossed in. Reywas92 Talk 20:53, 25 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Geography, and Caribbean. Reywas92 Talk 20:53, 25 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per WP:OR/ WP:SYNTH. Indeed it is very similar to the other 3 Caribbean subregion articles I nominated for deletion earlier today. It has sources, but those usually only deal with specific countries and not the purported wider region as a whole. NLeeuw ( talk) 21:07, 25 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Merge... In response here, I initiated this article in 2010 as a way to incorporate the Afro-Carribean diaspora into Central American history. Typically as it appears to me, work focused on Central America tends to leave out the important role played, as the original contribution did, that there is a complex set of African components in the region that were always connected to the the Caribbean, hence the Western Caribbean zone.
This includes, initially, the role of African groups like the Miskitos or Miskitos Zambos, with their international connections, to English colonies in particular, and then the use the English made of them to promote their own illegal (in Spanish eyes) trade with the region.
This was followed by the large scale migration from the English speaking Caribbean in conjunction with the building of the Panama Canal, and the actions of the fruit companies in particular. These communities are connected thought their adherence (today) to the English language (though many are bi-lingual), English customs, such as the Anglican church and other lesser religious groups that have home in the English Caribbean, to include customs like playing cricket.
I am perfectly willing to accept a merger with other areas, or a renaming, but I think that deletion of its content at least along the lines established here, is unnecessary and the piece is worthy of retention as a topic in Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beepsie ( talk • contribs) 21:54, 25 April 2024 (UTC) reply
I think History of Central America would be a good place to include most of this then. I agree with your comments that this is an important part of history, but even if this "zone" term is sometimes used, I don't think it needs to be a separate page like this. Reywas92 Talk 00:43, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • There are definitely sources to support the term. I don't know why the conclusion is that there are no useful results at all - it seems to have been a British geographic term, and countries self-describe as being inside the zone. [9] SportingFlyer T· C 22:38, 25 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Bradfield Abbey

Bradfield Abbey (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails notability, the one reliable source Is the one referenced on the page which makes it clear the charter refering to the abbey having been built is probably fraudulent. I can find no other historical source that references any abbey existing in Bradfield. Tim Landy ( talk) 15:39, 25 April 2024 (UTC) reply

List of Indian Kingdoms overthrown due to Muslim conquests

List of Indian Kingdoms overthrown due to Muslim conquests (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fancruft-esque POV article backed by author's original research and synthesis of different sources. Ratnahastin ( talk) 10:38, 25 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Maratha-Rajput conflict (1800-1820)

Maratha-Rajput conflict (1800-1820) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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POV fork of [10] backed entirely by self published obsolete sources. Creator was recently blocked for socking. Ratnahastin ( talk) 03:37, 25 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, History, Military, India, and Rajasthan. Skynxnex ( talk) 03:47, 25 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete This article doesn't pass WP:GNG. I nowhere read about a topic called Maratha-Rajput conflict (1800-1820). Nothing of significance happened in 1800 or 1820 which can start or end any such conflicts. There were many conflicts in present day Rajasthan around that time like kingdoms of Marwar, Mewar, Jaipur, Scindhia, Holkar, Pindari etc all fighting with one another, Marwar-Jaipur conflicts, Holkar-Scindhia conflicts, pindari helping one kingdom abandoning them and helping other, all of these happened simultaneously, so it can not be said that Rajputs like Mewar, Marwar, Jaipur etc were fighting unitedly against United Maratha forces of Holkar, Scindhia and pindaris. I seriously think the article is more like generalization of almost a century long warfare in this period of anarchy which also had other players like Mughals and many more new entrants like Sikhs, British, and many soldiers of fortunes working under some powers and later switching sides. In my opinion this article doesn't pass notability issue. Just show some references or citations where this particular topic is mentioned separately, or even just mentioned. This article is nothing but a rubbish page made by a abusive account. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2409:4052:91F:698F:5590:CBF8:CC1B:D8BB ( talk) 18:27, 25 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nom.-- Imperial [AFCND] 10:49, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Italian language in Romania

Italian language in Romania (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Not really about the Italian language in Romania. It’s mostly a coatrack about Italians in Romania and about the similarities between Romanian and Italian. Biruitorul Talk 21:15, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Merge with Italians in Romania per WP:ATD. Most of the article seems to be about Italians in Romania, with only a fraction about what the article should be about. Thus merge it and move the content actually about the the Romanian and Italian languages to a section of Italians in Romania or a section under Romanian or Italian. Flemmish Nietzsche ( talk) 22:07, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Merge per nom and per Flemmish Nietzsche. Article is not mainly of its topic and has a lot of unsourced information. I don't think the topic is notable to justify its split from Italians in Romania, it's not like the language is very present in the country. Super Ψ Dro 22:14, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep part of it, merge the rest. The sections on the languages should be kept. The various sections about other topics, like Italian Emigration to Romania, belong in the article for Italians in Romania. I can see an argument for merging the language sections with that article but I do think that the language elements are worthy of their own article. Lamona ( talk) 04:07, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Comment: Why is Italians in Romania a preferable redirect target over Languages of Romania? IgnatiusofLondon (he/him • ☎️) 13:58, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Italian isn't listed there as a language used in Romania. I don't know why that is, but it seems to be based on something like census data. If Italian doesn't show in official statistics it probably shouldn't be addressed there. Lamona ( talk) 14:31, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply
According to the latest census, there are 4105 native speakers of Italian in Romania. Biruitorul Talk 19:09, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply

History of rugby union matches between Leicester and Leinster

History of rugby union matches between Leicester and Leinster (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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There is no real rivalry between these two sides, with no WP:GNG coverage of the rivalry, just a collection of stats with violates WP:NOTSTATS and WP:NLIST. Similar discussions such as this and this have shown a clear consensus on these sorts of articles. Rugbyfan22 ( talk) 18:49, 22 April 2024 (UTC) reply

List of countries and dependencies by area in 1989

List of countries and dependencies by area in 1989 (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Non- notable article with no independent notability on it's own from the main countries and dependences by area list article. A very arbitrary article that just picks a certain moment in history. The year before the fall of communism and as it states in the first sentence "This is a list of countries by area in 1989, providing an overview of the world population before the fall of the Iron Curtain."

There could be plenty of articles about some period in time when borders and land area of nations changed. Such as the end of European colonization in Africa, Asia, or even earlier when Spain lost it's former territories in Latin America.

Also there is no source for what makes this notable on it's own and we have something based on original research. All the notes and references listed are the same or if not the same can be or are used in the original article.

I think this also falls under No stats as this is some random information at a random point in time. WikiCleanerMan ( talk) 17:22, 22 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Comment Weird that population is mentioned only in that lead sentence! —Tamfang ( talk) 20:41, 22 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Muscovite–Ukrainian War (1658–1659)

Muscovite–Ukrainian War (1658–1659) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No such war in literature, it was part of the Russo-Polish War (1654–1667). This article is OR Marcelus ( talk) 20:11, 20 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Poland, Russia, and Ukraine. Marcelus ( talk) 20:11, 20 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 21:21, 20 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Comment. Seems to be mentioned here but the odds are this is not reliable and copied from Wikipedia. Possibly mentioned under other names in English, Polish, Ukrainian, Russian. Polish name is not mentioned, can anyone report on the queries in Russian and Ukrainian and analyze sources used in the respective articles on ru and uk wikis, if any (sources; articles exist)? -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 00:08, 21 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Appears notable. Sources exist e.g. this and this. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:03, 24 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, possibly re-title. We have an article on The Ruin (Ukrainian history). This would be a sub-article. I do personally find the use of "Muscovy" and "Ukraine" in this context a tad jarring. We seem to be very inconsistent in our terminology for early modern East Slavic states. There is an open access anthology on the battle of Konotop (1659) wherein Serhii Plokhy uses "Muscovite-Cossack war". Srnec ( talk) 20:25, 25 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Comment. Google Scholar returns 2 results for "Muscovite-Ukrainian War" and 9 results for "Ukrainian-Muscovite War", of which only 1 refers to 1658. Clearly a new title is needed in this case and this seems to fall under the Ruin and Russo-Polish War articles (which are sorely lacking details for this period). Even the Ukrainian-language sources cited use "Russian-Ukrainian war" and this looks like to have been the original title on the Ukrainian Wikipedia before it was moved. In my opinion this looks like revisionist history referring to an uprising led by Ivan Vyhovsky (a pro-Polish hetman). For example this source says: "Khmel'nitskii died in 1657, and Poland and the new Cossack leader, Vygovskii, now accepted Polish lordship over Ukraine. Vygovskii joined Poland in the resumption of war with Russia in October 1658... But in Ukraine, Cossacks of the Left Bank... rebelled against Vygovskii's pro-Polish alliance... Vygovskii fled to Poland, and Trubetskoi marched to Pereiaslavl', where he persuaded the Left Bank Cossacks to accept him as hetman in October 1659" (p. 214). I do not think it is suited for a spin-off article; I would say merge instead but most the article is unsourced. Mellk ( talk) 12:04, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    In a nutshell: in 1658 Vyhovsky again recognized the Cossacks' dependence on Poland; the Union of Hadziach was signed. This resumed Polish-Russian fighting interrupted earlier by a truce; Russia invaded Ukraine seeking to subjugate Vyhovsky, having some Cossacks (including Sich) behind it.
    In May, the PLC again concluded a truce with Russia, but the Sejm approved the Hadziach Union, and Vyhovsky received small reinforcements from the crown army. Thus came the Battle of Konotop, which Vyhovsky won. In August, however, a Cossack uprising broke out against Vyhovsky, who was overthrown and the new Hetman Yurko Khmelnytsky subordinated himself to Moscow, supported by a large part of the Cossacks. The war continued.
    As you can see, there is no war between “Ukraine” and “Moscow”, but there is an internal rivalry between the divided Cossacks, which take place in the context of the Polish-Russian war. Marcelus ( talk) 14:01, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    I would also add that Google Scholar returns almost no results for "Russian-Ukrainian war" or "Russo-Ukrainian war" referring to 1658/1659 (if we limit the years to before the current war then almost all results refer to the Russian Civil War and a hypothetical war excluding post-2014 publications referring to the current war but slipped through). Same goes for "Muscovite-Cossack war" etc. I see a few results for Ukrainian-language sources but there needs to be a deeper look to see which ones are reliable. At the moment I see very little that supports the idea of a separate war. For example there are plenty of Ukrainian-language sources that refer to a Soviet occupation of Ukraine until 1991 but this was determined to be a fringe view. In fact we had an AfD for this (and this was also a translation of an article from the Ukrainian Wikipedia). Mellk ( talk) 15:43, 26 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:08, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Merge Salvage what is possible from the article and merge it into the Russo-Polish War (1654–1667) page. Noorullah ( talk) 05:52, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Women's roles during the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre

Women's roles during the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Although the title of the article is "Women's roles during the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre", it actually only lists the deeds of four women during the Tiananmen Incident, without summarizing the role of women as a whole in the Tiananmen Incident, this article is more like talking about the experiences of these four women during the Tiananmen Incident. 日期20220626 ( talk) 05:08, 20 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, History, Politics, and China. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 09:55, 20 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep The article is on a viable-looking topic and is well referenced, and can be improved. Nick-D ( talk) 10:15, 20 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Merge to 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre. There are a couple of articles that talk about gender in the Tiananmen Square protests and massacre, the Feigon article cited in the artile and there is an article from Radio Free Asia on the forgotten legacy of women and the protests. I agree with the nominator about how the text does not match the title of the page, and I do not think there is sufficient information for a stand-alone page, especially as the women mentioned in the article all have a stand-alone page, so no information will be lost. -- Enos733 ( talk) 18:06, 21 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 06:57, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Delete As per the nominator, the article is more like a compilation of the acts of some individuals rather than discussing the role of women. The article 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre is already very large hence I would oppose a merge. I think relevant information not appearing in the stand-alone articles should be copied across, for example the section on Wang Chaohua.
Golem08 ( talk) 13:31, 27 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Absolutely fascinating! Please do not merge with anything else. People can only read so much before they get bored and look for something else. Per the "1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre" navbox, there are numerous related articles. Won't hurt to leave this as is. — Maile ( talk) 01:09, 28 April 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. Although the article isn't in the best condition with its over-focus on four particular women's participation rather rather than on summarizing more general academic synthesis of the women's history of the event in general, I find the essay Deletion is not cleanup persuasive in this case. Deleting an article about a valid topic makes it more difficult to improve later, and even in this non-ideal state the article remains educational and of interest. Hydrangeans ( she/her | talk | edits) 08:39, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Holderness museums

Holderness museums (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Unclear what this article is even about. Mentions one small archive, without a claim to notability, shared across the 3 museums that aren't otherwise tied together. -- D'n'B- t -- 06:45, 17 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗ plicit 14:28, 24 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Buffer theory

Buffer theory (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The article does not really focus on "Buffer theory" and only mentions it once. It would probably be best if this were merged or redirected to another article. Shadow311 ( talk) 15:33, 16 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hey man im josh ( talk) 16:58, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply

First Battle of Lahore (1759)

First Battle of Lahore (1759) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The sources provided on the page show no mention for a battle in "August 1759", the sources only show that Ahmad Shah even began his campaign in September 1759, reaching Lahore and then taking it in November. [11] Noorullah ( talk) 10:39, 15 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  1. "Sabaji maintained his position with great valour and strength, inflicted a crushing defeat upon Jahan Khan, who was severely wounded and lost his son in the action. Jahan Khan’s return to Peshawar in discomfiture so roused the fury of the Shah." Excerpts from New history of the Marathas vol 1. p-408
  2. "Dattaji Sindhia progressed slowly through Malwa. He appointed Sabaji Sindhia to occupy Lahore ( March, 1759 ). The Sikhs did not check the Marathas, but co-operated with them in driving away the Afghans under Jahan Khan across the Indus. Sabaji’s forces penetrated as far as Peshawar." Excerpts from A Study Of Eighteenth Century India Vol. 1. p-342
  • Additional comments- Renaming the article to the Capture of Lahore or even the Maratha occupation of Lahore (per sources) would be better. Though these sources are enough for keeping this article still additional sources would be appreciated.
Sudsahab ( talk) 10:30, 17 April 2024 (UTC) reply
There doesn't even seem to be a battle at all.
Per Sarkar, it states that the Afghans had evacuated Lahore, meaning that there was no "battle" for the city in April 1758. [12] Also corroborated by Hari Ram Gupta: [13]
The Afghans returned in October 1759 and re-occupied Lahore. [14]
There's no mention of a battle in August 1759 whatsoever.
Jahan Khan's battle per this source: [15] Doesn't seem to be mentioned at Lahore at all, nor do the sources you've shown imply this, but rather is "Thereafter the invaders overran Attock, then crossed the Indus, and threatened the historic fort of Rohtas on the left bank of the Jhelum. By that time, Sabaji Patel (Schinde) reached the place with fresh troops and a large number of Sikh fighters, who had made common cause with him against the Afghan infiltrators. The Afghans were defeated by the combined forces of the Marathas and the Sikhs in a pitched battle, in which Jahan Khan lost his son and was himself also wounded."
So again, this shows this was not a battle at Lahore. Noorullah ( talk) 14:45, 17 April 2024 (UTC) reply
[16] Does not show a battle at Lahore, but mentions Jahan Khan's defeat at an undisclosed location, and only later talks about how Ahmad Shah re-occupied Lahore (presumably in his 1759 October campaign). Noorullah ( talk) 14:47, 17 April 2024 (UTC) reply
That's why I proposed renaming this article, either it should be Jahan Khan invasion of Rohtas or Battle of Rohtas. Coming to Sarkar's reliability which is questionable. Also see WP:RAJ, we can't rely on him as long as we have better sources for the notability of the Battle of Lahore (Battle of Rohtas?).
You do realise [this| https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.98175/page/n361/mode/2up] work of Hari Ram Gupta (published in 1944) is relatively older than his cited work in the article Marathas and Panipat. (published in 1961)? It would be obvious that older sources might not contain more information around this certain event, this is WP:AGE MATTERS.
  • In Marathas and Panipat. p-101 tells us: Jahan Khan rushed to Peshawar, captured Attock, and then advanced towards Rohtas. Sabaji sought help from the Sikhs. The united forces marched against Jahan Khan, whom they encountered on the other side of the Jehlam. In a fierce engagement the Afghan general suffered heavily. He lost his son and a large number of troops, himself receiving several wounds
  • [17] p-260, It also propounds: Thereafter, the invaders overran Attock, then crossed the Indus and threatened the historic fort of Rohtas on the left bank of the Jhelum. By that time, Sabaji Patel reached the place with fresh troops and a large number of the Sikh fighters, who had made a common cause with him against the Afghan infiltrators. The Afghans were defeated by the combined forces of the Marathas and the Sikhs in a pitched battle, in which Jahan Khan lost his son and was himself also wounded. Note Rohtas,Pitched battle and fierce engagement in both of the quotations.
Sudsahab ( talk) 04:49, 18 April 2024 (UTC) reply
But why have a separate article for this at all? It doesn't seem that the sources are discussing it in that way. They're describing it as part of an overall campaign. That tells me the best place for this information is somewhere like Northern Campaign of Raghunath Rao, or whichever other article might fit better. -- asilvering ( talk) 00:21, 19 April 2024 (UTC) reply
I have already quoted the sources which discussed it thoroughly. And no it's not part of Northern Campaign of Raghunath Rao, not to be confused with Capture of Lahore which occurred in 1758 by Raghunath Rao. If merging is an option then I'd suggest merging it to Afghan-Maratha War. But my vote is still keep until someone gives more inputs. Sudsahab ( talk) 14:29, 19 April 2024 (UTC) reply
@ Sudsahab, if it isn't part of Northern Campaign of Raghunath Rao, you should fix the infobox, since that's what it says. -- asilvering ( talk) 00:58, 20 April 2024 (UTC) reply
Alright Sudsahab ( talk) 08:02, 20 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: WP:HEY and to allow further discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hey man im josh ( talk) 14:02, 22 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  • I'll just add that the " WP:HEY" was Sudsahab referring to their own edits to the article (seems a bit rich to say this about yourself?), and they have since been blocked as a sockpuppet. So no one is actually arguing this meets the WP:HEY standard. -- asilvering ( talk) 03:56, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply
    lol. Noorullah ( talk) 19:51, 29 April 2024 (UTC) reply

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