Please add MUSIC-related discussions to Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Music, not here.
This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Artists (in the visual arts only). It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.
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Archived discussions (starting from April 2016) may be found at:| watch |
Carl Schleicher
- Carl Schleicher ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
There is already a draft for this that has been rejected a few times. Pretty sure the author of the draft got tired and moved it to mainspace with no concensus. 48JCL ( talk) 22:41, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People and Artists. 48JCL ( talk) 22:41, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Was wrong. Turns out that the author of the draft is different than the user that created the page. The person who created the page has been not warned however has created NUMEROUS speedily deleted articles through copyright. Assuming that the user that created the page just wanted to seem like the one who created it, even though they very obviously copied from the draft- which still exists, by the way.
48JCL (
talk) 22:46, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Of course I copied from the draft. This guy already has articles in Russian, Hebrew, Spanish, and Galician (?!), so I don't understand why there are issues with the English version. This is an obviously notable Jewish painter; Wikipedia has used many of his paintings across a few articles, such as on the
Talmud.
Ethanbas (
talk) 23:55, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- @ Ethanbas Then just resubmit it, if you think it is "obviously notable" 48JCL TALK 11:25, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- @
Ethanbas Your argument is a different version of
WP:WAX. Look at
Draft:Nahal Rafiah. Just because it has a Hebrew version does not immediately make it notable.
48JCL
TALK 11:27, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- I generally ignore Wikipedia essays and only follow the policies and guidelines, so I do not accept the premises behind WP:WAX. I agree with you that an article existing in just one other language does not make it notable; however, I get a feeling that this article about Carl Schleicher would exist without any issues in *every other language* except in English. Maybe the original creator of the draft had a poor first draft which attracted (now undue) attention? Ethanbas ( talk) 18:27, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- Of course I copied from the draft. This guy already has articles in Russian, Hebrew, Spanish, and Galician (?!), so I don't understand why there are issues with the English version. This is an obviously notable Jewish painter; Wikipedia has used many of his paintings across a few articles, such as on the
Talmud.
Ethanbas (
talk) 23:55, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Judaism, Austria, Italy, and Ukraine. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 00:15, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- @
48JCL, why do you think he is non-notable?
FortunateSons (
talk) 11:04, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- The reason why I am putting this for AfD is because it is completely stolen from a draft. Also, wouldn’t it still be in draftspace, as that draft was rejected twice and never touched again? 48JCL TALK 11:14, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- @
FortunateSons
48JCL
TALK 11:14, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- @ 48JCL, I'm not sure on the specific policy implications. However, I don't think we should delete an article about a notable person if it is avoidable. Do you happen to know what the policy on this sort of thing is? FortunateSons ( talk) 11:18, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- Here are the comments left by the reviewer:
- Comment: This draft, as written, does not appear to indicate that one of the biographical notability criteria is satisfied. If one of the criteria is satisfied, please revise this draft appropriately, with a reliable source, if necessary stating on the talk page or in AFC comments which criterion is met, and resubmit. It is the responsibility of the submitter to show that a subject satisfies a notability criterion. You may ask for advice about the biographical notability criteria at the Teahouse. In particular, see and refer to WP:NARTIST for notability, which is the guideline that the subject should be evaluated against. Where are his works on display? What has been written about him by art critics? Robert McClenon ( talk) 22:41, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: Where are his works on display? Robert McClenon ( talk) 22:39, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: This page has been moved back from article space to draft space. Please read the comments by the draftifying reviewer and address them. Do not resubmit this draft without addressing the comments of the previous reviewer. If you do not understand why this article was sent back to draft space, please ask the reviewer rather than simply resubmitting. You may ask for advice on how to improve this draft at the Teahouse or on the talk pages of any of the reviewers. (The declining reviewers may advise you to ask for advice at the Teahouse.) If this draft is resubmitted without any improvement or with very little improvement, it will probably be rejected. Robert McClenon ( talk) 22:38, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
-
48JCL
TALK 11:20, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- That provides context, but unfortunately does not answer any of my questions? FortunateSons ( talk) 12:16, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
May Gilbert
- May Gilbert ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Does not meet any of the criteria for WP:ARTIST. Only 1 article links to this. LibStar ( talk) 14:03, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Artists, Women, Visual arts, and New Zealand. LibStar ( talk) 14:03, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete The article has no reliable sources and is essentially an orphan with no article linking to it. This evidence suggests the article does not fall on the notability side. Wolverine XI ( talk to me) 15:01, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
Brad Heckman
- Brad Heckman ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
No sources that pass WP:GNG/ WP:BASIC/ WP:PROF/ WP:ARTIST, and I was unable to find any additional sources that meet notability criteria after a search of my own. The majority of sources are not independent of the subject, and some do not contain significant coverage. Several parts of the article read in a promotional tone. –– FormalDude (talk) 09:37, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Academics and educators, Artists, Businesspeople, and Social science. –– FormalDude (talk) 09:40, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 10:09, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: I find this nomination for the deletion of the Brad Heckman article to be both perplexing and unsubstantiated. It appears the nominator made their decision after requesting access to the Wall Street Journal article, which was behind a paywall. If this singular paywalled source was the tipping point for an AfD discussion, we need to reassess what constitutes a careless deletion nomination because this one certainly fits the bill. The Wall Street Journal article in question is entirely about the nonprofit organization that Heckman founded and led. It begs the question: What specifically about that article, which thoroughly discusses Heckman's professional work, convinced the nominator that this article deserved deletion? Let's entertain the notion for a moment that the sources might not be independent of the subject, which seems to be suggested by the nomination. This presumably refers to the TEDx talk given by Heckman. Notability guidelines clearly state that the source must be independent of the subject. TEDx talks, much like interviews in Rolling Stone or other reputable publications, should not be considered non-independent simply because they involve the subject speaking about their work. This rule is better suited for sources like blogs and social media posts, not established platforms like TEDx. Additionally, articles published by universities about their alumni typically reflect the institution's pride and are usually well-researched, as evidenced by the in-depth article from Dickinson College on Heckman's life and achievements. Heckman is a published illustrator and painter, recognized by reputable organizations such as the Combat Antisemitism Movement for his artistic contributions. The mention of his nonprofit offering free mediation services is a factual statement about the organization's purpose, not an advertisement. According to WP:PROMO, a promotional tone is characterized by self-promotion and blatant advocacy, neither of which are present in this article. Wikipedia’s own guidelines suggest tagging articles with {{Promotional tone}} if necessary, rather than nominating them for deletion. I urge my fellow editors to consider these points carefully. The Brad Heckman article is well-supported by independent and reliable sources, and the nomination for deletion appears to be based on a misunderstanding or misinterpretation of Wikipedia's notability and promotional content guidelines. Let's keep this informative and well-documented article. Thank you. 9t5 ( talk) 10:19, 29 May 2024 (UTC) — Note to closing admin: 9t5 ( talk • contribs) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this AfD.
- For reference, 9t5 asked me to
review this page at
User talk:FormalDude § Page review. I checked to see if I had access to all the sources (since I wouldn't want to review it if I didn't) and the only one I couldn't access was the WSJ article. I didn't start reviewing until 9t5 provided me with a link to a free copy of the WSJ source on my talk page (that link now says deleted by the owner, I've reuploaded
here). So no, the WSJ wasn't any "tipping point". Nonetheless, it does not contain significant coverage of Heckman, you said it yourself: it's "
entirely about the nonprofit organization
". It doesn't even mention Heckman's relation to the organization. When you say it "thoroughly discusses Heckman's professional work
" I feel like I'm not even reading the same article as you; I can't see how it verifies even a single piece of information about him. –– FormalDude (talk) 11:29, 29 May 2024 (UTC)- @ FormalDude “It doesn't even mention Heckman's relation to the organization”… the funny thing is that even without a Wall Street Journal subscription, you are still capable of reading the first paragraph of the article that states “But when I called the Peace Institute, CEO Brad Heckman confirmed my buddy's account”.. quite the thorough review you did. The pdf was set to auto-delete since I don’t have the right to redistribute what is behind a paywall. You could always drop $0.99 and read it on the Wall Street Journal’s website though. Cheers. 9t5 ( talk) 07:44, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- @ FormalDude But since you are making absolutely untrue statements like “It doesn't even mention Heckman's relation to the organization”.. THIS is the Wall Street Journal article. I went ahead and re-uploaded it. 9t5 ( talk) 08:15, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- I see I missed the first two paragraphs which provide us with the one fact that Heckman is the CEO. That's still not significant coverage. Here's my assessment of the article's more promising sources:
- For reference, 9t5 asked me to
review this page at
User talk:FormalDude § Page review. I checked to see if I had access to all the sources (since I wouldn't want to review it if I didn't) and the only one I couldn't access was the WSJ article. I didn't start reviewing until 9t5 provided me with a link to a free copy of the WSJ source on my talk page (that link now says deleted by the owner, I've reuploaded
here). So no, the WSJ wasn't any "tipping point". Nonetheless, it does not contain significant coverage of Heckman, you said it yourself: it's "
Source assessment table: prepared by
User:FormalDude
| ||||
| Source | Independent? | Reliable? | Significant coverage? | Count source toward GNG? |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| WSJ | 
|
|
 Entirely about the company, only
passing mentions of Heckman.
|
✘ No |
| TEDx Talks | This is a speech given by Heckman, clearly not independent.
|
~ Per RSP, must abide by WP:ABOUTSELF. |
|
✘ No |
| Dickinson College | Written for and by Heckmen's alma matter, consituting a
WP:COISOURCE.
|
~ May have been provided entirely by Heckmen without any editorial oversight. |
|
✘ No |
| NYT |
|
|
Only a passing mention of Heckman.
|
✘ No |
| This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{ source assess table}}. | ||||
- ––
FormalDude
(talk) 08:28, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- @
FormalDude You literally uploaded a copy of the article with that part and most of the article cut out…? I’m more concerned about that than anything else.
9t5 (
talk) 09:21, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- “Written by alma mater”… what?! It’s published on an official university’s .edu website. You have got to be kidding me. Your speculation about universities publishing lies in order to fake the notability of their alumni is not something you need to bring with you when you sit down to review pages. That is absolutely wild to me. @ FormalDude 9t5 ( talk) 09:42, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- The source being independent of the subject doesn’t mean that their commentary cannot be what the material is. The SOURCE must be independent of the subject.
- Wikipedia’s words:
- "Independent of the subject" excludes works produced by the article's subject or someone affiliated with it. For example, advertising, press releases, autobiographies, and the subject's website are not considered independent.
- Press releases, advertisements, autobiographies and ones own website are completely within our control. If we want, we don’t need to fact check before we publish those sorts off things.
- What makes TEDx and other outlets reliable is the fact that the company is independent of the subject. So they won’t post something that is completely BS — they check to make sure it’s true first.
- You aren’t understanding what a reference being “independent of the subject” means.
9t5 (
talk) 09:34, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Our standards for assessing sources, especially when it comes to notability, are much stricter than "not posting completely BS" and "not publishing lies". Presenting an argument about notability as an argument about TEDx posting completely BS or a university publishing lies is an extreme exaggeration of the actual debate. 0x Deadbeef→∞ ( talk to me) 09:46, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
-
FormalDude: Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material. -
WP:SIGCOV the entire article is the authors experience having met Heckman and learned about his company’s mission. You’re telling me that since the company is the main topic that it doesn’t count? That is an absolutely ridiculous thing to go around doing to editors. You’re causing issues where there doesn’t need to be. Good for you. Enjoy your AfD discussion.
9t5 (
talk) 09:48, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Are we going to ignore the sentence right before your quote?
"Significant coverage" addresses the topic directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content.
tell me you can say with a straight face that WSJ has addressed Brad Heckman as a person directly and in detail. 0x Deadbeef→∞ ( talk to me) 09:52, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Are we going to ignore the sentence right before your quote?
- @
FormalDude You literally uploaded a copy of the article with that part and most of the article cut out…? I’m more concerned about that than anything else.
9t5 (
talk) 09:21, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- ––
FormalDude
(talk) 08:28, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- I found this AfD after 9t5 brought it up on Discord. I'm not going to formally say Delete or Keep, but I'd like to clarify some things.
- First, the WSJ article does not provide significant coverage of Brad Heckman at all. It would be significant coverage of New York Peace Institute, but that does not mean Brad Heckman automatically becomes notable for being the CEO of it.
- Speeches at TEDx do not confer notability. Based on the TED brand, I'd be more inclined to believe that a TED speaker is notable, but I would not conclude notability just based on giving a speech at TED alone. TEDx is a different story, see
this:
Every TEDx event is independently curated by volunteers who generously invest their time to spotlight valuable ideas from and for their community. That means each speaker is selected by those volunteers without influence from sponsors, government, or any organizations.
I've seen TEDx speakers spread pseudoscience, so TEDx doesn't really help establish notability. - There is some level of independence in an article published by the person's alma mater, but even if you argue that it counts towards GNG, it is still very weak and wouldn't satisfy GNG requiring multiple sources. 0x Deadbeef→∞ ( talk to me) 09:35, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- @ 0xDeadbeef I’m at least happy other people are participating.
- When the discussion is between the articles author and the nominator and nobody else then what is the point? 9t5 ( talk) 09:44, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: After cutting through all the puffery (promotional tones) in the article, I'm not seeing what makes this person notable. Fails
WP:SIGCOV and
WP:GNG from my POV. Also noting that I became aware of this nomination when 9t5 was criticizing the nominator for questioning the notability of the article on the community Discord.
Hey man im josh (
talk) 10:16, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- @ Hey man im josh Can I ask a question? What is promotional sounding about it? Could you give me a few quotes so I can better understand what is even being referenced? 9t5 ( talk) 15:25, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- I am going to step away from this AfD and come back to it next week so that a discussion can be had. I don’t want to disrupt the conversation with my frustrations as the author of the article. I still stand by my point above. Cheers. 9t5 ( talk) 16:11, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete, with possible alternative of redirect to a stub on the NY Peace Institute. I'm not seeing any serious case for WP:NPROF, and I didn't find reviews of the one book. That leaves GNG. I see a lot of passing mentions along the lines of the "Ask Real Estate" bit in the NYTimes, but nothing more. I think it is well short of WP:SIGCOV. I agree that the article feels a bit promotional, but it is not so bad as for WP:TNT, and this did not factor into my !vote. Russ Woodroofe ( talk) 17:17, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per Russ Woodroofe's reasoning. Best, GPL93 ( talk) 16:59, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
Claire Harris (artist)
- Claire Harris (artist) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails WP:ARTIST. LibStar ( talk) 19:20, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Visual arts, and New Zealand. LibStar ( talk) 19:20, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 19:49, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. Non-notable artist. 104.7.152.180 ( talk) 03:42, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. I do not think any of the sources establish notability per WP:ARTIST. David Palmer// cloventt ( talk) 08:24, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
Chizo 1 Germany
- Chizo 1 Germany ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
An article that lacks the minimal inclusion for bios. Doesn't meet WP:GNG. A WP:MILL. Safari Scribe Edits! Talk! 10:38, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Actors and filmmakers, Artists, Lists of people, Africa, and Nigeria. Safari Scribe Edits! Talk! 10:40, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Agreed. Subject did not pass WP:GNG, WP:NACTOR or WP:NSINGER. Comr Melody Idoghor (talk) 10:49, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Nothing to establish notability here. Vanderwaalforces ( talk) 11:22, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Doesn't meet
WP:GNG. The Dailytrust
here seems to be a relieve but the problem is that it is not a reliable source despite being part of
Newspaper Proprietors' Association of Nigeria per its
about. Legit
here is mixed with different cases with none GNG. His song becoming a hit is not enough without disclosed more sales, wins and nominations at best. -
Tumbuka Arch (
talk) 13:18, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- @
Tumbuka Arch, Daily trust per
WP:NGRS is a reliable source. However in this context, it's an interview and per
WP:INTERVIEW, isn't reliable.
Safari Scribe
Edits!
Talk! 23:07, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- @ SafariScribe I see. Then it should be added here for quick reference. Tumbuka Arch ( talk) 08:13, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- @
Tumbuka Arch, Daily trust per
WP:NGRS is a reliable source. However in this context, it's an interview and per
WP:INTERVIEW, isn't reliable.
Safari Scribe
Edits!
Talk! 23:07, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: There are insufficient reliable sources with in-depth coverage to establish notability. There are a lot of unreliable blogs that could probably be PR. Best, Reading Beans 00:36, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
Nassim Nasr
- Nassim Nasr ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This article appears to be well-sourced but none of them get the subject over the hurdle of WP:GNG or WP:NARTIST. A quick source analysis: Source 1 and 2 are WP:INTERVIEWS and thus primary sources. Source 4 is an official corporate bio and thus also a primary source. Source 5 is a paid press release. Source 6 is a gallery website and thus a primary source. Sources 7, 8 and 9 are WP:TRIVIALMENTIONs that do not provide WP:SIGCOV. Sources 10 and 11 appear to provide significant coverage, but it is actually marketing material. The publisher--Artoze-- describes itself as an "International Online Art Gallery ... We excel in creating strategic art events to boost the visibility of the brands helping them gain more footfall and catalyzing the business growth." This is a marketing platform, not a reliable and independent source. The final source left is 3, Slimi Magazine, whose independence is uncertain. (Other articles seem to be directly provided by the artists profiled.) Even if Slimi works for GNG, more secondary, reliable, independent sources are needed. There in particular appears to be no independent, secondary sourcing for the claims about Nasr's artistic style and approach. Dclemens1971 ( talk) 21:25, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Artists and Lebanon. Shellwood ( talk) 21:58, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
Jerome K. Moore
- Jerome K. Moore ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
I have carried out WP:BEFORE for this BLP about an artist working in comics and animation, and added a reference. I cannot find more coverage, however, so do not think he meets WP:GNG, WP:NARTIST or WP:ANYBIO. Tacyarg ( talk) 14:47, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Visual arts, Comics and animation, and Maine. Tacyarg ( talk) 14:47, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. Netherzone ( talk) 15:07, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. Just a single source in the article, and my searches are not finding anything else. Does not meet WP:ARTIST at this time. Elspea756 ( talk) 13:47, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete It's a real shame that the folks who edited this article didn't give any indication of where they got the info. I can't find anything but name-checks and most of those are in bibliographical listings (e.g. names of those who contributed to specific comics). Lamona ( talk) 05:04, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
Zachary Rapp-Rovan
- Zachary Rapp-Rovan ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
No indication of notability independent of the band Zeds Dead, per WP:MUSICBIO and WP:ARTIST. Nearly all of the content (and sources) here is about the band, and the coverage I can find of him in RS is about his work with the band, including some mentions of the art he displays when the band performs. I proposed a merge on 9 March, but that's had no response apart from the article creator. Creator has now removed the merge proposal template from this article, so I've closed the merge proposal at Talk:Zeds Dead, but the problem of notability hasn't been addressed yet. A redirect to Zeds Dead would be fine as an WP:ATD. Wikishovel ( talk) 18:00, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Artists, Bands and musicians, and Canada. Wikishovel ( talk) 18:00, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- I did not remove the merge proposal with any intended malice. I am not sure I can properly promote the necessary "proper notability" other than to say that many entertainers have a duality of creative ability other than the one they are most famous for. Given a little time I will endeavor to find more reliable sources to support retention of his BLP.
Buster Seven
Talk (UTC) 03:27, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Never having experienced an AfD, a redirect sounds like it might be a good solution. Before creating the Rapp-Rovan article, I tried to increase the mention of his graffiti art in the Zeds Dead article but was unsatisfied with the result. A separate BLP seemed to be the answer. Buster Seven Talk (UTC) 03:40, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- I did not remove the merge proposal with any intended malice. I am not sure I can properly promote the necessary "proper notability" other than to say that many entertainers have a duality of creative ability other than the one they are most famous for. Given a little time I will endeavor to find more reliable sources to support retention of his BLP.
Buster Seven
Talk (UTC) 03:27, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to Zeds Dead. The majority of this article is on that topic. I don't see the sourcing to support a separate article on this band member's graffiti art. Elspea756 ( talk) 12:59, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
Jorge Simes
- Jorge Simes ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No indication of notoriety per either WP:GNG or WP:NARTIST. I couldn't independently find awards or significant coverage by specialized, independent sources. Rkieferbaum ( talk) 22:23, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Artists, Argentina, and United States of America. Rkieferbaum ( talk) 22:36, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Illinois-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 00:22, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- @
Rkieferbaum: Hi! Posting here as well - I have a compiled list of awards and coverage from good sources that will be relevant here. I will update this page with them as soon as I can. Please hold.
LocusXovier (
talk) 22:24, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- @ LocusXovier: hi there! By all means. Normally deletion discussions are open for a week and they can be relisted. I'll be sure to watch the page and gladly give my input. Feel free to ping me if you don't hear from me. Cheers! Rkieferbaum ( talk) 23:36, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
Juan Astorga Junquera
- Juan Astorga Junquera ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Subject has a stable article at Spanish Wikipedia but notability according to English Wikipedia guidelines for either WP:GNG, WP:NACADEMIC or WP:ARTIST isn't evident. I'd like to hear what others think. Rkieferbaum ( talk) 01:36, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Academics and educators, Artists, and Venezuela. Rkieferbaum ( talk) 01:36, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ecuador-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 09:24, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. Notable Any biography: The person has made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in a specific field- His recognized contribution to Digital Art Curation. HarveyPrototype ( talk) 20:52, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- Recognized by whom? The term "digital art curation" does not even appear in the article. Geschichte ( talk) 04:15, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
Andrey Shishkin
- Andrey Shishkin ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Self-proclaimed painter. No notability, no significant achievements, no reliable art criticism. Cross-wiki spam. Andrei Romanenko ( talk) 18:56, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Artists and Russia. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 19:36, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. The article seems to cite reliable sources (academic articles), but I can't be bothered to go through the steps needed to machine translate PDFS (hence, comment, not a vote). However, source analysis is necessary to prove that notability is not given here - the nom makes such a claim but does not provide analysis of sources. It may also be worthwhile to check concurrent discussion at
ru:Википедия:К_удалению/14_мая_2024#Шишкин,_Андрей_Алексеевич. --
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 01:36, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
- These sources are not academic in the full sense of the word. They are published in the collections of articles everybody can submit for a a small amount of money, their only author is a local schoolteacher, not an expert in art (this was the main reason for deletion in Russian wikipedia). Not a single art institution knows this painter, no exhibitions, no art criticism. Andrei Romanenko ( talk) 10:27, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. What is a non-self-proclaimed painter? Is it when someone is actually not a painter, but is called such by someone's else? Isn't that called hoax then?
Wojsław Brożyna (
talk) 22:51, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
- Non-self-proclaimed painter is the painter whose works are in museums and acclaimed galleries, reviewed with art critics and art historians, published in esteemed editions. Wikipedia is for collecting information about this kind of authors. This is what the criteria of notability are about. Andrei Romanenko ( talk) 10:19, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla Ohhhhhh, no! 02:39, 22 May 2024 (UTC)- AGAINST Ты что, коммунист? что с тобой не так ??? << самопровозглашенный художник >> не можешь терпеть приличное искусство, настоящее, душевное искусство? ахуенный ... 98.240.113.219 ( talk) 22:08, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting again due to lack of civil participation. This article seems to be about a painter but the discussion is more charged than one would expect for a borderline notable painter so I'm guessing there is more involved with his reputation than their artistic skills. A reminder, this is the English Wikipedia, please offer your opinions in English.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:13, 29 May 2024 (UTC)- very sorry sir just his name is russian i wanted to reply like this i found it to be more pertinent
- romanenko's remarks are laced with vitriol below the surface and betray a certain negative attitude, which he also expressed on ruwiki, where he was unfortunately successful in having the corresponding article deleted
- @ Андрей Романенко tell me that over four hundred paintings like this and reference to your work in scholarly papers is not a 'significant achievement'
- how can you call him a 'self-proclaimed painter' looking at the exemplars of his work ???
- i have seen on the english-speaking internet several memes using his painting Благословение ратника
- this one for example https://ifunny.co/picture/how-it-feels-to-inherit-the-family-suicide-revolver-aUDIhr0PA
- they're hard to find by searching, because of course the name and author of the painting are not provided
- more professional websites where his work is posted
- https://www.rbth.com/arts/335686-ancient-east-slavs-art
- https://www.indcatholicnews.com/news/41202
- https://christian.art/daily-gospel-reading/luke-2-22-40-2020/
- the followers of the rabbi yeshua really like his admittedly charming depiction by the avowed pagan shishkin
- some private blogs
- https://www.livemaster.com/topic/2998743-legends-and-stories-of-the-artist-andrey-shishkin
- https://art-in-eastern-europe.blogspot.com/2016/09/andrey-shishkin.html
- not enough criticism for you ? tell me again how he is a 'self-proclaimed painter'
- have you painted a wall ? 98.240.113.219 ( talk) 03:34, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- The fact that someone's pictures are available in the Web at different obscure websites does not make their authors notable, neither does being mentioned in nobody knows whose blogs. No exhibtions in any known galleries, no works in museums, no art criticism in any known editions, no catalogues, no prizes, no place in professional art community, zero level of notability.
Andrei Romanenko (
talk) 10:34, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- We have already in the article sources from academic journals.
- /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Notability_(people)#Creative_professionals
- This guideline applies to authors, editors, journalists, filmmakers, photographers, artists, architects, and other creative professionals. Such a person is notable if:
- The person is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by peers or successors; or
- The person is known for originating a significant new concept, theory, or technique; or
- The person has created or played a major role in co-creating a significant or well-known work or collective body of work. In addition, such work must have been the primary subject of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews, or of an independent and notable work (for example, a book, film, or television series, but usually not a single episode of a television series); or
- The person's work (or works) has: (a) become a significant monument, (b) been a substantial part of a significant exhibition, (c) won significant critical attention, or (d) been represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums.
- Shishkin is one of the leading figures in pagan / Slavic fantasy art in Russia, a collective body of work, and he is prominently featured in these papers, which are cited in the article. So does he not meet the third criterion ? 98.240.113.219 ( talk) 21:40, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- Writings of a local schoolteacher published in insignificant editions where authors themselves are paying for publication (see
here for instance) are not qualified to determine whether the painter played a major role in anyhting or not. However, the author (A. Gizbrecht) does not claim anything about Shishkin at all, he just briefly mentions several of his paintings.
Andrei Romanenko (
talk) 17:08, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Were the authors "local schoolteachers" or not?
- And you must know that every scientific paper charges some fee to publish
- /info/en/?search=Article_processing_charge
-
98.240.113.219 (
talk) 18:29, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Many good journals do not have apc. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:06, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- Writings of a local schoolteacher published in insignificant editions where authors themselves are paying for publication (see
here for instance) are not qualified to determine whether the painter played a major role in anyhting or not. However, the author (A. Gizbrecht) does not claim anything about Shishkin at all, he just briefly mentions several of his paintings.
Andrei Romanenko (
talk) 17:08, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- The fact that someone's pictures are available in the Web at different obscure websites does not make their authors notable, neither does being mentioned in nobody knows whose blogs. No exhibtions in any known galleries, no works in museums, no art criticism in any known editions, no catalogues, no prizes, no place in professional art community, zero level of notability.
Andrei Romanenko (
talk) 10:34, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
Please add MUSIC-related discussions to Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Music, not here.
This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Artists (in the visual arts only). It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.
- Adding a new AfD discussion
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- Edit this page and add {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PageName}} to the top of the list. Replace "PageName" with the relevant article name, i.e. the one on the existing AFD discussion. Also, indicate the title of the article in the edit summary as it is particularly helpful to add a link to the article in the edit summary. When you save the page, the discussion will automatically appear.
- You should also tag the AfD by adding {{subst:delsort|Artists|~~~~}} to it, which will inform editors that it has been listed here. You may place this tag above or below the nomination statement or at the end of the discussion thread.
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Archived discussions (starting from April 2016) may be found at:| watch |
Carl Schleicher
- Carl Schleicher ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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There is already a draft for this that has been rejected a few times. Pretty sure the author of the draft got tired and moved it to mainspace with no concensus. 48JCL ( talk) 22:41, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People and Artists. 48JCL ( talk) 22:41, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Was wrong. Turns out that the author of the draft is different than the user that created the page. The person who created the page has been not warned however has created NUMEROUS speedily deleted articles through copyright. Assuming that the user that created the page just wanted to seem like the one who created it, even though they very obviously copied from the draft- which still exists, by the way.
48JCL (
talk) 22:46, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Of course I copied from the draft. This guy already has articles in Russian, Hebrew, Spanish, and Galician (?!), so I don't understand why there are issues with the English version. This is an obviously notable Jewish painter; Wikipedia has used many of his paintings across a few articles, such as on the
Talmud.
Ethanbas (
talk) 23:55, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- @ Ethanbas Then just resubmit it, if you think it is "obviously notable" 48JCL TALK 11:25, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- @
Ethanbas Your argument is a different version of
WP:WAX. Look at
Draft:Nahal Rafiah. Just because it has a Hebrew version does not immediately make it notable.
48JCL
TALK 11:27, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- I generally ignore Wikipedia essays and only follow the policies and guidelines, so I do not accept the premises behind WP:WAX. I agree with you that an article existing in just one other language does not make it notable; however, I get a feeling that this article about Carl Schleicher would exist without any issues in *every other language* except in English. Maybe the original creator of the draft had a poor first draft which attracted (now undue) attention? Ethanbas ( talk) 18:27, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- Of course I copied from the draft. This guy already has articles in Russian, Hebrew, Spanish, and Galician (?!), so I don't understand why there are issues with the English version. This is an obviously notable Jewish painter; Wikipedia has used many of his paintings across a few articles, such as on the
Talmud.
Ethanbas (
talk) 23:55, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Judaism, Austria, Italy, and Ukraine. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 00:15, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- @
48JCL, why do you think he is non-notable?
FortunateSons (
talk) 11:04, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- The reason why I am putting this for AfD is because it is completely stolen from a draft. Also, wouldn’t it still be in draftspace, as that draft was rejected twice and never touched again? 48JCL TALK 11:14, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- @
FortunateSons
48JCL
TALK 11:14, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- @ 48JCL, I'm not sure on the specific policy implications. However, I don't think we should delete an article about a notable person if it is avoidable. Do you happen to know what the policy on this sort of thing is? FortunateSons ( talk) 11:18, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- Here are the comments left by the reviewer:
- Comment: This draft, as written, does not appear to indicate that one of the biographical notability criteria is satisfied. If one of the criteria is satisfied, please revise this draft appropriately, with a reliable source, if necessary stating on the talk page or in AFC comments which criterion is met, and resubmit. It is the responsibility of the submitter to show that a subject satisfies a notability criterion. You may ask for advice about the biographical notability criteria at the Teahouse. In particular, see and refer to WP:NARTIST for notability, which is the guideline that the subject should be evaluated against. Where are his works on display? What has been written about him by art critics? Robert McClenon ( talk) 22:41, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: Where are his works on display? Robert McClenon ( talk) 22:39, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: This page has been moved back from article space to draft space. Please read the comments by the draftifying reviewer and address them. Do not resubmit this draft without addressing the comments of the previous reviewer. If you do not understand why this article was sent back to draft space, please ask the reviewer rather than simply resubmitting. You may ask for advice on how to improve this draft at the Teahouse or on the talk pages of any of the reviewers. (The declining reviewers may advise you to ask for advice at the Teahouse.) If this draft is resubmitted without any improvement or with very little improvement, it will probably be rejected. Robert McClenon ( talk) 22:38, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
-
48JCL
TALK 11:20, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- That provides context, but unfortunately does not answer any of my questions? FortunateSons ( talk) 12:16, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
May Gilbert
- May Gilbert ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Does not meet any of the criteria for WP:ARTIST. Only 1 article links to this. LibStar ( talk) 14:03, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Artists, Women, Visual arts, and New Zealand. LibStar ( talk) 14:03, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete The article has no reliable sources and is essentially an orphan with no article linking to it. This evidence suggests the article does not fall on the notability side. Wolverine XI ( talk to me) 15:01, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
Brad Heckman
- Brad Heckman ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No sources that pass WP:GNG/ WP:BASIC/ WP:PROF/ WP:ARTIST, and I was unable to find any additional sources that meet notability criteria after a search of my own. The majority of sources are not independent of the subject, and some do not contain significant coverage. Several parts of the article read in a promotional tone. –– FormalDude (talk) 09:37, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Academics and educators, Artists, Businesspeople, and Social science. –– FormalDude (talk) 09:40, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 10:09, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: I find this nomination for the deletion of the Brad Heckman article to be both perplexing and unsubstantiated. It appears the nominator made their decision after requesting access to the Wall Street Journal article, which was behind a paywall. If this singular paywalled source was the tipping point for an AfD discussion, we need to reassess what constitutes a careless deletion nomination because this one certainly fits the bill. The Wall Street Journal article in question is entirely about the nonprofit organization that Heckman founded and led. It begs the question: What specifically about that article, which thoroughly discusses Heckman's professional work, convinced the nominator that this article deserved deletion? Let's entertain the notion for a moment that the sources might not be independent of the subject, which seems to be suggested by the nomination. This presumably refers to the TEDx talk given by Heckman. Notability guidelines clearly state that the source must be independent of the subject. TEDx talks, much like interviews in Rolling Stone or other reputable publications, should not be considered non-independent simply because they involve the subject speaking about their work. This rule is better suited for sources like blogs and social media posts, not established platforms like TEDx. Additionally, articles published by universities about their alumni typically reflect the institution's pride and are usually well-researched, as evidenced by the in-depth article from Dickinson College on Heckman's life and achievements. Heckman is a published illustrator and painter, recognized by reputable organizations such as the Combat Antisemitism Movement for his artistic contributions. The mention of his nonprofit offering free mediation services is a factual statement about the organization's purpose, not an advertisement. According to WP:PROMO, a promotional tone is characterized by self-promotion and blatant advocacy, neither of which are present in this article. Wikipedia’s own guidelines suggest tagging articles with {{Promotional tone}} if necessary, rather than nominating them for deletion. I urge my fellow editors to consider these points carefully. The Brad Heckman article is well-supported by independent and reliable sources, and the nomination for deletion appears to be based on a misunderstanding or misinterpretation of Wikipedia's notability and promotional content guidelines. Let's keep this informative and well-documented article. Thank you. 9t5 ( talk) 10:19, 29 May 2024 (UTC) — Note to closing admin: 9t5 ( talk • contribs) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this AfD.
- For reference, 9t5 asked me to
review this page at
User talk:FormalDude § Page review. I checked to see if I had access to all the sources (since I wouldn't want to review it if I didn't) and the only one I couldn't access was the WSJ article. I didn't start reviewing until 9t5 provided me with a link to a free copy of the WSJ source on my talk page (that link now says deleted by the owner, I've reuploaded
here). So no, the WSJ wasn't any "tipping point". Nonetheless, it does not contain significant coverage of Heckman, you said it yourself: it's "
entirely about the nonprofit organization
". It doesn't even mention Heckman's relation to the organization. When you say it "thoroughly discusses Heckman's professional work
" I feel like I'm not even reading the same article as you; I can't see how it verifies even a single piece of information about him. –– FormalDude (talk) 11:29, 29 May 2024 (UTC)- @ FormalDude “It doesn't even mention Heckman's relation to the organization”… the funny thing is that even without a Wall Street Journal subscription, you are still capable of reading the first paragraph of the article that states “But when I called the Peace Institute, CEO Brad Heckman confirmed my buddy's account”.. quite the thorough review you did. The pdf was set to auto-delete since I don’t have the right to redistribute what is behind a paywall. You could always drop $0.99 and read it on the Wall Street Journal’s website though. Cheers. 9t5 ( talk) 07:44, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- @ FormalDude But since you are making absolutely untrue statements like “It doesn't even mention Heckman's relation to the organization”.. THIS is the Wall Street Journal article. I went ahead and re-uploaded it. 9t5 ( talk) 08:15, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- I see I missed the first two paragraphs which provide us with the one fact that Heckman is the CEO. That's still not significant coverage. Here's my assessment of the article's more promising sources:
- For reference, 9t5 asked me to
review this page at
User talk:FormalDude § Page review. I checked to see if I had access to all the sources (since I wouldn't want to review it if I didn't) and the only one I couldn't access was the WSJ article. I didn't start reviewing until 9t5 provided me with a link to a free copy of the WSJ source on my talk page (that link now says deleted by the owner, I've reuploaded
here). So no, the WSJ wasn't any "tipping point". Nonetheless, it does not contain significant coverage of Heckman, you said it yourself: it's "
Source assessment table: prepared by
User:FormalDude
| ||||
| Source | Independent? | Reliable? | Significant coverage? | Count source toward GNG? |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| WSJ |
|
|
Entirely about the company, only
passing mentions of Heckman.
|
✘ No |
| TEDx Talks | This is a speech given by Heckman, clearly not independent.
|
~ Per RSP, must abide by WP:ABOUTSELF. |
|
✘ No |
| Dickinson College | Written for and by Heckmen's alma matter, consituting a
WP:COISOURCE.
|
~ May have been provided entirely by Heckmen without any editorial oversight. |
|
✘ No |
| NYT |
|
|
Only a passing mention of Heckman.
|
✘ No |
| This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{ source assess table}}. | ||||
- ––
FormalDude
(talk) 08:28, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- @
FormalDude You literally uploaded a copy of the article with that part and most of the article cut out…? I’m more concerned about that than anything else.
9t5 (
talk) 09:21, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- “Written by alma mater”… what?! It’s published on an official university’s .edu website. You have got to be kidding me. Your speculation about universities publishing lies in order to fake the notability of their alumni is not something you need to bring with you when you sit down to review pages. That is absolutely wild to me. @ FormalDude 9t5 ( talk) 09:42, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- The source being independent of the subject doesn’t mean that their commentary cannot be what the material is. The SOURCE must be independent of the subject.
- Wikipedia’s words:
- "Independent of the subject" excludes works produced by the article's subject or someone affiliated with it. For example, advertising, press releases, autobiographies, and the subject's website are not considered independent.
- Press releases, advertisements, autobiographies and ones own website are completely within our control. If we want, we don’t need to fact check before we publish those sorts off things.
- What makes TEDx and other outlets reliable is the fact that the company is independent of the subject. So they won’t post something that is completely BS — they check to make sure it’s true first.
- You aren’t understanding what a reference being “independent of the subject” means.
9t5 (
talk) 09:34, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Our standards for assessing sources, especially when it comes to notability, are much stricter than "not posting completely BS" and "not publishing lies". Presenting an argument about notability as an argument about TEDx posting completely BS or a university publishing lies is an extreme exaggeration of the actual debate. 0x Deadbeef→∞ ( talk to me) 09:46, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
-
FormalDude: Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material. -
WP:SIGCOV the entire article is the authors experience having met Heckman and learned about his company’s mission. You’re telling me that since the company is the main topic that it doesn’t count? That is an absolutely ridiculous thing to go around doing to editors. You’re causing issues where there doesn’t need to be. Good for you. Enjoy your AfD discussion.
9t5 (
talk) 09:48, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Are we going to ignore the sentence right before your quote?
"Significant coverage" addresses the topic directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content.
tell me you can say with a straight face that WSJ has addressed Brad Heckman as a person directly and in detail. 0x Deadbeef→∞ ( talk to me) 09:52, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Are we going to ignore the sentence right before your quote?
- @
FormalDude You literally uploaded a copy of the article with that part and most of the article cut out…? I’m more concerned about that than anything else.
9t5 (
talk) 09:21, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- ––
FormalDude
(talk) 08:28, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- I found this AfD after 9t5 brought it up on Discord. I'm not going to formally say Delete or Keep, but I'd like to clarify some things.
- First, the WSJ article does not provide significant coverage of Brad Heckman at all. It would be significant coverage of New York Peace Institute, but that does not mean Brad Heckman automatically becomes notable for being the CEO of it.
- Speeches at TEDx do not confer notability. Based on the TED brand, I'd be more inclined to believe that a TED speaker is notable, but I would not conclude notability just based on giving a speech at TED alone. TEDx is a different story, see
this:
Every TEDx event is independently curated by volunteers who generously invest their time to spotlight valuable ideas from and for their community. That means each speaker is selected by those volunteers without influence from sponsors, government, or any organizations.
I've seen TEDx speakers spread pseudoscience, so TEDx doesn't really help establish notability. - There is some level of independence in an article published by the person's alma mater, but even if you argue that it counts towards GNG, it is still very weak and wouldn't satisfy GNG requiring multiple sources. 0x Deadbeef→∞ ( talk to me) 09:35, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- @ 0xDeadbeef I’m at least happy other people are participating.
- When the discussion is between the articles author and the nominator and nobody else then what is the point? 9t5 ( talk) 09:44, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: After cutting through all the puffery (promotional tones) in the article, I'm not seeing what makes this person notable. Fails
WP:SIGCOV and
WP:GNG from my POV. Also noting that I became aware of this nomination when 9t5 was criticizing the nominator for questioning the notability of the article on the community Discord.
Hey man im josh (
talk) 10:16, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- @ Hey man im josh Can I ask a question? What is promotional sounding about it? Could you give me a few quotes so I can better understand what is even being referenced? 9t5 ( talk) 15:25, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- I am going to step away from this AfD and come back to it next week so that a discussion can be had. I don’t want to disrupt the conversation with my frustrations as the author of the article. I still stand by my point above. Cheers. 9t5 ( talk) 16:11, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete, with possible alternative of redirect to a stub on the NY Peace Institute. I'm not seeing any serious case for WP:NPROF, and I didn't find reviews of the one book. That leaves GNG. I see a lot of passing mentions along the lines of the "Ask Real Estate" bit in the NYTimes, but nothing more. I think it is well short of WP:SIGCOV. I agree that the article feels a bit promotional, but it is not so bad as for WP:TNT, and this did not factor into my !vote. Russ Woodroofe ( talk) 17:17, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per Russ Woodroofe's reasoning. Best, GPL93 ( talk) 16:59, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
Claire Harris (artist)
- Claire Harris (artist) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:ARTIST. LibStar ( talk) 19:20, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Visual arts, and New Zealand. LibStar ( talk) 19:20, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 19:49, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. Non-notable artist. 104.7.152.180 ( talk) 03:42, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. I do not think any of the sources establish notability per WP:ARTIST. David Palmer// cloventt ( talk) 08:24, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
Chizo 1 Germany
- Chizo 1 Germany ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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An article that lacks the minimal inclusion for bios. Doesn't meet WP:GNG. A WP:MILL. Safari Scribe Edits! Talk! 10:38, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Actors and filmmakers, Artists, Lists of people, Africa, and Nigeria. Safari Scribe Edits! Talk! 10:40, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Agreed. Subject did not pass WP:GNG, WP:NACTOR or WP:NSINGER. Comr Melody Idoghor (talk) 10:49, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Nothing to establish notability here. Vanderwaalforces ( talk) 11:22, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Doesn't meet
WP:GNG. The Dailytrust
here seems to be a relieve but the problem is that it is not a reliable source despite being part of
Newspaper Proprietors' Association of Nigeria per its
about. Legit
here is mixed with different cases with none GNG. His song becoming a hit is not enough without disclosed more sales, wins and nominations at best. -
Tumbuka Arch (
talk) 13:18, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- @
Tumbuka Arch, Daily trust per
WP:NGRS is a reliable source. However in this context, it's an interview and per
WP:INTERVIEW, isn't reliable.
Safari Scribe
Edits!
Talk! 23:07, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- @ SafariScribe I see. Then it should be added here for quick reference. Tumbuka Arch ( talk) 08:13, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- @
Tumbuka Arch, Daily trust per
WP:NGRS is a reliable source. However in this context, it's an interview and per
WP:INTERVIEW, isn't reliable.
Safari Scribe
Edits!
Talk! 23:07, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: There are insufficient reliable sources with in-depth coverage to establish notability. There are a lot of unreliable blogs that could probably be PR. Best, Reading Beans 00:36, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
Nassim Nasr
- Nassim Nasr ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This article appears to be well-sourced but none of them get the subject over the hurdle of WP:GNG or WP:NARTIST. A quick source analysis: Source 1 and 2 are WP:INTERVIEWS and thus primary sources. Source 4 is an official corporate bio and thus also a primary source. Source 5 is a paid press release. Source 6 is a gallery website and thus a primary source. Sources 7, 8 and 9 are WP:TRIVIALMENTIONs that do not provide WP:SIGCOV. Sources 10 and 11 appear to provide significant coverage, but it is actually marketing material. The publisher--Artoze-- describes itself as an "International Online Art Gallery ... We excel in creating strategic art events to boost the visibility of the brands helping them gain more footfall and catalyzing the business growth." This is a marketing platform, not a reliable and independent source. The final source left is 3, Slimi Magazine, whose independence is uncertain. (Other articles seem to be directly provided by the artists profiled.) Even if Slimi works for GNG, more secondary, reliable, independent sources are needed. There in particular appears to be no independent, secondary sourcing for the claims about Nasr's artistic style and approach. Dclemens1971 ( talk) 21:25, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
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Jerome K. Moore
- Jerome K. Moore ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I have carried out WP:BEFORE for this BLP about an artist working in comics and animation, and added a reference. I cannot find more coverage, however, so do not think he meets WP:GNG, WP:NARTIST or WP:ANYBIO. Tacyarg ( talk) 14:47, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
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- Delete. Just a single source in the article, and my searches are not finding anything else. Does not meet WP:ARTIST at this time. Elspea756 ( talk) 13:47, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete It's a real shame that the folks who edited this article didn't give any indication of where they got the info. I can't find anything but name-checks and most of those are in bibliographical listings (e.g. names of those who contributed to specific comics). Lamona ( talk) 05:04, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
Zachary Rapp-Rovan
- Zachary Rapp-Rovan ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No indication of notability independent of the band Zeds Dead, per WP:MUSICBIO and WP:ARTIST. Nearly all of the content (and sources) here is about the band, and the coverage I can find of him in RS is about his work with the band, including some mentions of the art he displays when the band performs. I proposed a merge on 9 March, but that's had no response apart from the article creator. Creator has now removed the merge proposal template from this article, so I've closed the merge proposal at Talk:Zeds Dead, but the problem of notability hasn't been addressed yet. A redirect to Zeds Dead would be fine as an WP:ATD. Wikishovel ( talk) 18:00, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
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- I did not remove the merge proposal with any intended malice. I am not sure I can properly promote the necessary "proper notability" other than to say that many entertainers have a duality of creative ability other than the one they are most famous for. Given a little time I will endeavor to find more reliable sources to support retention of his BLP.
Buster Seven
Talk (UTC) 03:27, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Never having experienced an AfD, a redirect sounds like it might be a good solution. Before creating the Rapp-Rovan article, I tried to increase the mention of his graffiti art in the Zeds Dead article but was unsatisfied with the result. A separate BLP seemed to be the answer. Buster Seven Talk (UTC) 03:40, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- I did not remove the merge proposal with any intended malice. I am not sure I can properly promote the necessary "proper notability" other than to say that many entertainers have a duality of creative ability other than the one they are most famous for. Given a little time I will endeavor to find more reliable sources to support retention of his BLP.
Buster Seven
Talk (UTC) 03:27, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to Zeds Dead. The majority of this article is on that topic. I don't see the sourcing to support a separate article on this band member's graffiti art. Elspea756 ( talk) 12:59, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
Jorge Simes
- Jorge Simes ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No indication of notoriety per either WP:GNG or WP:NARTIST. I couldn't independently find awards or significant coverage by specialized, independent sources. Rkieferbaum ( talk) 22:23, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
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- @
Rkieferbaum: Hi! Posting here as well - I have a compiled list of awards and coverage from good sources that will be relevant here. I will update this page with them as soon as I can. Please hold.
LocusXovier (
talk) 22:24, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- @ LocusXovier: hi there! By all means. Normally deletion discussions are open for a week and they can be relisted. I'll be sure to watch the page and gladly give my input. Feel free to ping me if you don't hear from me. Cheers! Rkieferbaum ( talk) 23:36, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
Juan Astorga Junquera
- Juan Astorga Junquera ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Subject has a stable article at Spanish Wikipedia but notability according to English Wikipedia guidelines for either WP:GNG, WP:NACADEMIC or WP:ARTIST isn't evident. I'd like to hear what others think. Rkieferbaum ( talk) 01:36, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
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- Keep. Notable Any biography: The person has made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in a specific field- His recognized contribution to Digital Art Curation. HarveyPrototype ( talk) 20:52, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- Recognized by whom? The term "digital art curation" does not even appear in the article. Geschichte ( talk) 04:15, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
Andrey Shishkin
- Andrey Shishkin ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Self-proclaimed painter. No notability, no significant achievements, no reliable art criticism. Cross-wiki spam. Andrei Romanenko ( talk) 18:56, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
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- Comment. The article seems to cite reliable sources (academic articles), but I can't be bothered to go through the steps needed to machine translate PDFS (hence, comment, not a vote). However, source analysis is necessary to prove that notability is not given here - the nom makes such a claim but does not provide analysis of sources. It may also be worthwhile to check concurrent discussion at
ru:Википедия:К_удалению/14_мая_2024#Шишкин,_Андрей_Алексеевич. --
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 01:36, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
- These sources are not academic in the full sense of the word. They are published in the collections of articles everybody can submit for a a small amount of money, their only author is a local schoolteacher, not an expert in art (this was the main reason for deletion in Russian wikipedia). Not a single art institution knows this painter, no exhibitions, no art criticism. Andrei Romanenko ( talk) 10:27, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. What is a non-self-proclaimed painter? Is it when someone is actually not a painter, but is called such by someone's else? Isn't that called hoax then?
Wojsław Brożyna (
talk) 22:51, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
- Non-self-proclaimed painter is the painter whose works are in museums and acclaimed galleries, reviewed with art critics and art historians, published in esteemed editions. Wikipedia is for collecting information about this kind of authors. This is what the criteria of notability are about. Andrei Romanenko ( talk) 10:19, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla Ohhhhhh, no! 02:39, 22 May 2024 (UTC)- AGAINST Ты что, коммунист? что с тобой не так ??? << самопровозглашенный художник >> не можешь терпеть приличное искусство, настоящее, душевное искусство? ахуенный ... 98.240.113.219 ( talk) 22:08, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting again due to lack of civil participation. This article seems to be about a painter but the discussion is more charged than one would expect for a borderline notable painter so I'm guessing there is more involved with his reputation than their artistic skills. A reminder, this is the English Wikipedia, please offer your opinions in English.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:13, 29 May 2024 (UTC)- very sorry sir just his name is russian i wanted to reply like this i found it to be more pertinent
- romanenko's remarks are laced with vitriol below the surface and betray a certain negative attitude, which he also expressed on ruwiki, where he was unfortunately successful in having the corresponding article deleted
- @ Андрей Романенко tell me that over four hundred paintings like this and reference to your work in scholarly papers is not a 'significant achievement'
- how can you call him a 'self-proclaimed painter' looking at the exemplars of his work ???
- i have seen on the english-speaking internet several memes using his painting Благословение ратника
- this one for example https://ifunny.co/picture/how-it-feels-to-inherit-the-family-suicide-revolver-aUDIhr0PA
- they're hard to find by searching, because of course the name and author of the painting are not provided
- more professional websites where his work is posted
- https://www.rbth.com/arts/335686-ancient-east-slavs-art
- https://www.indcatholicnews.com/news/41202
- https://christian.art/daily-gospel-reading/luke-2-22-40-2020/
- the followers of the rabbi yeshua really like his admittedly charming depiction by the avowed pagan shishkin
- some private blogs
- https://www.livemaster.com/topic/2998743-legends-and-stories-of-the-artist-andrey-shishkin
- https://art-in-eastern-europe.blogspot.com/2016/09/andrey-shishkin.html
- not enough criticism for you ? tell me again how he is a 'self-proclaimed painter'
- have you painted a wall ? 98.240.113.219 ( talk) 03:34, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- The fact that someone's pictures are available in the Web at different obscure websites does not make their authors notable, neither does being mentioned in nobody knows whose blogs. No exhibtions in any known galleries, no works in museums, no art criticism in any known editions, no catalogues, no prizes, no place in professional art community, zero level of notability.
Andrei Romanenko (
talk) 10:34, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- We have already in the article sources from academic journals.
- /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Notability_(people)#Creative_professionals
- This guideline applies to authors, editors, journalists, filmmakers, photographers, artists, architects, and other creative professionals. Such a person is notable if:
- The person is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by peers or successors; or
- The person is known for originating a significant new concept, theory, or technique; or
- The person has created or played a major role in co-creating a significant or well-known work or collective body of work. In addition, such work must have been the primary subject of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews, or of an independent and notable work (for example, a book, film, or television series, but usually not a single episode of a television series); or
- The person's work (or works) has: (a) become a significant monument, (b) been a substantial part of a significant exhibition, (c) won significant critical attention, or (d) been represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums.
- Shishkin is one of the leading figures in pagan / Slavic fantasy art in Russia, a collective body of work, and he is prominently featured in these papers, which are cited in the article. So does he not meet the third criterion ? 98.240.113.219 ( talk) 21:40, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- Writings of a local schoolteacher published in insignificant editions where authors themselves are paying for publication (see
here for instance) are not qualified to determine whether the painter played a major role in anyhting or not. However, the author (A. Gizbrecht) does not claim anything about Shishkin at all, he just briefly mentions several of his paintings.
Andrei Romanenko (
talk) 17:08, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Were the authors "local schoolteachers" or not?
- And you must know that every scientific paper charges some fee to publish
- /info/en/?search=Article_processing_charge
-
98.240.113.219 (
talk) 18:29, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Many good journals do not have apc. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:06, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- Writings of a local schoolteacher published in insignificant editions where authors themselves are paying for publication (see
here for instance) are not qualified to determine whether the painter played a major role in anyhting or not. However, the author (A. Gizbrecht) does not claim anything about Shishkin at all, he just briefly mentions several of his paintings.
Andrei Romanenko (
talk) 17:08, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- The fact that someone's pictures are available in the Web at different obscure websites does not make their authors notable, neither does being mentioned in nobody knows whose blogs. No exhibtions in any known galleries, no works in museums, no art criticism in any known editions, no catalogues, no prizes, no place in professional art community, zero level of notability.
Andrei Romanenko (
talk) 10:34, 29 May 2024 (UTC)