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I noticed you said you pay for Jstor articles. I have access to Jstor and could help with research if you need it. MBisanz talk 21:16, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Well, it is a quote I am bound to like personally. It sounds pretty much like anthropological orthodoxy, not just fifty years ago but, if anything, moreso today. Who actually said it? Who is Tumin? Is the source relevant for the article? Slrubenstein | Talk 15:12, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Well, in his day, Sherry Washburn was one of the world's leading physical anthropologists (up there with Lewis Leakey) but his specializaton I think was primatology, not genetics. But definitely a leading scholar, he pretty much headed the Berkeley anthropology department at the time. Slrubenstein | Talk 15:26, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Well, that certainly does sound relevant. Also, perhaps for the article on race. I have argued there that in academe, the discipline (viewed as a natural science and not just as a social science) that specializes in human beings is anthropology, so the Race article should privilege the views of anthropologists. I still believe this, but somewhere in the top half or top third - where the history of the idea is presented, and different views (taxonomic, essentialist, lineage etc.) are summarized, it might also be useful to summarize Tumin since he is explicitly seeking to represent diverse sciences - obviously in this regard the differences among them are as important as the similarities (not because one discipline is better than another, but because - I presume) the differences reveal something about each discipline. Do you have confidence in the method by which Tumin selected his sources? I know in 1963 Washburn was among the tops in anthropology, are the other scholars equally notable in their fields? Were they being asked to give their own opinion, or speak for their discipline? Slrubenstein | Talk 16:15, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
A tidbit on significance, some part of this is reprinted in Hubert Humphrey's "School Desegregation: Documents and Commentaries." Neither this or Humphrey's is available online.
PЄTЄRS J VЄСRUМВА ►
TALK
20:34, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Vecrumba,
I was wondering whether you’d be interested in helping try to improve the neutrality of the article about Rushton’s book Race, Evolution, and Behavior. There’s a discussion on the article talk page where I think your input might be valuable, and your contributions might also be helpful in the article itself. I’m currently waiting for a book to arrive that I’ve mail-ordered to use as a source there, but once it does I’m intending to work on this article some more also. -- Captain Occam ( talk) 20:26, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
I see no useful purpose in further participation, and as I'm not a named party I've unwatched all the associated pages. Editors are welcome to contact me here with any questions.
PЄTЄRS J VЄСRUМВА ►
TALK
21:32, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
I have a history with Mikemikev and am in no way neutral. But I was hoping you could build a bridge between him and myself and others - you and disagree a good deal but you strike me as principled and fair. So I am disappointed to see the trouble you are having with Mikemikev. Do you feel you could take it upon yourself to try to mentor him? I fear if no one does, it will just lead to an RfC or something. Slrubenstein | Talk
Just saw the banner up top. My condolences. Slrubenstein | Talk 23:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
III think you will see one major difference between Mikemikev and Matchsci if you just go to User Contributions and look at their earliest contributions - I often find this a good way to get a sample that says something about their POV and editing interests ... to put a contemporary edit conflict into a larger context. Slrubenstein | Talk 13:29, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Just a note concerning Mikemikev: he seem to be somewhat successful at getting you to lose your temper. Please don't play his game. Even though we do disagree on many things, you do strike me as a fair editor and your edits strike me as logical and appropriate under most circumstances. At this point, I am more or less forced to believe Mikemikev is strictly trolling to get as many editors as possible to lash out at him (my guess is just so as to sidetrack any possible collaboration on the R&I articles). I'd hate to see you blocked because he made you lose your calm.-- Ramdrake ( talk) 16:22, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
you said:there's only been fairly crude wiring to the brain's vision center, so what that technology call? I just want to know. 75.73.152.238 ( talk) 11:40, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Moscow, like Florence, has a conventional name field; I have clarified accordingly. What we don't want, I think, is for people to people to jump up and down insisting on the Approved name field, which would be Moskva; if BGN always had a conventional name field, it would be a useful standard, but most of the time it doesn't. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:03, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for your helpful comments in the arbitration enforcement thread.
That said, I was wondering if you had any advice for me about where to go from here. I trust your opinion and respect your involvement in these articles a lot, and I'm still a novice here with a lot to learn. One of the clearest messages I got from the arb enforcement thread was that when I see something that I think should be reverted, I should just revert it myself rather than expecting someone else to do it. Do you think that's acceptable for me to do at this point? I definitely don't want to step on anyone's toes, but I care a lot about beginning to contribute to these articles in productive ways.
I also have some other ideas of things I can do that I doubt anyone would have a problem with, like adding some references to the section on mental chronometry. If you have any other suggestions about things I can be doing to help out, I'd be interested to know.
I'm a little concerned that I'm going to end up inadvertently acting in a way people associate with Occam, even if it's for a completely different reason, like happened recently with my comments on Victor Chmara's page. If you notice me doing something like this, would you mind pointing it out to me? I'd hate to repeat a mistake like this completely accidentally.
I'm aware that I'm going to be heavily scrutinized for a while here, and I'll probably be having to walk on eggshells for a bit. Any advice on how to keep in line while still contributing to these articles would be appreciated a lot. - Ferahgo the Assassin ( talk) 07:13, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
@Ferahgo. "when I see something that I think should be reverted, I should just revert it myself rather than expecting someone else to do it". That's exactly how I have earned my topic ban. But you are on the right track. Edit something different, and no one will accuse you of "meatpuppetry".
Biophys (
talk)
22:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
I am very sorry, but I have removed a section in your latest edit, as it violates your topic ban. As to my stated "voluntary topic ban", I have avoided all edits in articles that might be of interest to Digwuren or his Wikipedia supporters. The article you brought up has never been part of this dispute – neither I or my opponents in the DIGWUREN disputes have ever edited the article before, at least to my knowledge. -- Petri Krohn ( talk) 04:22, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
P.S. – As to "saving your butt" I and others believe that you commenting in a case about Russavia was a violation of your interaction ban. I believe, that if the case had ever resulted in blocks or other sanctions, you would have been among those sanctioned. As to my BOLDness, If you or anyone else involved had somehow indicated dissatisfaction at my decision I would have reverted and offered my apology. You did not. However, accusing me of improper action as you did here by innuendo is most unwelcome. -- Petri Krohn ( talk) 04:32, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
P.P.S. – I have also removed your attempted WP:OUTING. Thanks for the link anyway, it was quite interesting, to say the least. -- Petri Krohn ( talk) 04:44, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
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Please note that there's a new discussion at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/2010 ArbCom election voting procedure in which you may wish to comment. It is expected to close in about a week. You have received this message because you participated in a similar discussion (2009 AC2 RfC) last year. Roger talk 05:48, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Your comment on this edit - the most recent of a little revert war - might be very constructive. Slrubenstein | Talk 17:04, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
[1]. Offliner ( talk) 15:24, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
Perhaps you do not know (that's a secret), but most graduates from the Moscow State University in humanities area have a second military specialization officially entitled "military disinformation". That includes art of creating conflicts and other useful techniques, something that comes from Sun Tsu and Divide and rule. My military specialization was only epidemiology... Biophys ( talk) 21:00, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
[2] Volunteer Marek ( talk) 14:51, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
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Hello Vecrumba. Please see the closure of WP:AE#Vecrumba. This enforcement request has been closed by enacting sanction #1 (restricting comments on issues where you are not named, expiring December 22) and #3 (interaction ban with Petri Krohn, indefinite). There will be no change to the current expiry of your topic ban from Eastern Europe, which will be December 22. Though you may resume editing and commenting on Eastern European topics after 22 December, please try to ensure that you follow all Wikipedia policies. Thanks, EdJohnston ( talk) 00:14, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
User:Vecrumba/SovietJewishLatvia, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Vecrumba/SovietJewishLatvia and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of User:Vecrumba/SovietJewishLatvia during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Uzma Gamal ( talk) 00:01, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
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For offering advice to the student. Would you be interested in helping students on a more regular basis? -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 15:09, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
Hello Pēteris and welcome back editing articles on Latvia. I want to ask whether you would like to apply a more poetic translation to the content of the articles Rīga dimd and Div’ dūjiņas gaisā skrēja? Talk/ ♥фĩłдωəß♥\ Work 18:29, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
I have taken a shot at the article with my improvements. Feel free to comment or make chnages. Talk/ ♥фĩłдωəß♥\ Work 21:09, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
On "Felled in war — never died" perhaps "Felled in war — never dying"?
PЄTЄRS J VЄСRUМВА ►
TALK
21:37, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
I have a small issue with the translation of stanza 7 line 1: "The soul they thus came upon". I cannot comment on the original Latvian text, as my knowledge of the language is rudimentary. However, the current translation is very awkward and unnatural, as well not particularly poetic. I tried a more natural wording, but was reverted with this explanation: rv- this verse is continuing the previous, hence "thus". Personally, I do not think that "thus" is critical for continuance here; the fact that this verse follows the previous one is enough for such purposes. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen ( talk) 22:18, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
Hello,
I noticed that you are a fellow active member of WikiProject Moldova. Some time ago I created a new userbox for the project and proposed that it become official. Since no responses have been made as of yet, I am hoping to spark a discussion at Template talk:WikiProject Moldova User on the matter.
Mulțumesc,
Lothar von Richthofen ( talk) 16:55, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
I respect you a lot. But Tom Holzl is just a troll using the web to self-publish his own views. Please, just do not feed him. Slrubenstein | Talk 22:43, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
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-- Codrin.B ( talk) 23:11, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
There has recently been some discussion about the article's structure and I have taken the occasion to reread it and I think it has three major problems - I have raised this on the talk page but hope you don't mind my contacting you individually. I do not want to make any unilateral change to the article but if you agree with anything I say, maybe you could help. First, there is a section that sumarizes a[pproaches to race (essentialist, taxonomic, etc.) and I think we need to do a beter job of organizing the material in the first half of the article to follow this summary - it is aluable because it provides reasonable limits for what views we include, and also provides a logic for organizing different views.
Second, the opening section on historical views does not provide historical views. And this is really important, because we need to establish HOW the concept of "race" emerged, that the concept has a history, and moreover, that early views of race provide a good example of what we later call "essentialist." I posted a proposed addition on the talk page - if you like it perhaps you can add it, making whatever edits you see fit?
Finally, the article was once structured so that after discussing essentialist, taxonomic, and lineage views of race, each section ending with a critique, the article then explained how population and clines were the key concepts used today to understand genetic variation - all neat and well-organized, But over the past year or two there has been these stupid tit-for-tat process where some editors, anytime they find a sentence proposing that scientists reject race, then add sentences on how some still use it ... and worse, others, seeing any suggestion that someone believes in biological races, then adds a few sentences on how this is despite most scientists rejecting it. Too much of the article reads like a running debate. For example the section on historical views, instead of beginning with what people thought in the 19th or 18th centuries, begins with the social construction argument. Why? It is not a question of right or wrong, or majority versus fringe view, it is just a matter of clear organization. To the extent that there should be any debate at all, it should be in ONE place only, not in every section. Do you see the problem I see? If so can you help with a clean-up?
Thanks, Slrubenstein | Talk 16:28, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
If you wish, please provide input. Thanks and best regards. Codrin.B ( talk) 21:21, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
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You know, I've given it a lot of though over the past year or so and yes, I do think that the possibility that it was someone from the list, releasing the info out of a personal agenda, who then had no qualms about lying about it, was responsible. Volunteer Marek 05:34, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
Something here went wrong (see bottom). Also, the thread was just closed (see top)... -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 17:57, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
Hi, Vecrumba! I noted your revert of Soviet Russia back to "Boslhevist Russia", which you explained as
faith edit, Bolshevist Russia applies 1917 to 1922
Recognizing the WP:GOODFAITH which you set as the main motive of your revert, I must however draw you attention to some another standpoints of Wikipedia, such as WP:POV and WP:NPOV which seem to be not less significant in this case.
There's no need to remine that the term " Soviet Russia" which I insist upon is a derivative from the full official name of the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic. Since 1917 it has been mostly used in the unbiased, local sources through the world, from primary (telegraph agencies, diplomacy) to the most reliable secondary (scientific publications based upon abovementioned sources and archive documents etc.)
As for the "Bolshevist Russia", stemming from emigrant editions, its propagandistic scent becomes clear if we put it on a par with "Tory Britain", "Maoist China" etc. where the name of a party or a leader is used as a hyperbolizing, protrusing manipulation known as unjustified generalization.
No doubt, phrase "Bolshevist Russia" occurs frequently, however in Wikipedia one must weight this frequency against encyclopedical style. One must differ between neutral science on one, and opinion and advocacy journalism on another hand. Since encyclopedias speak about "Soviet Russia", there's no need to enforce "Bolshevist" instead. Of course, if the theme of the article requires a reminder of the hard-to-read name of the political party at power (for example, is specific event is directly related to a known decision of this patry) — it's enough to mention it once.
I also have to challenge your conclusion about the time bounds (1917 to 1922) for the "Bolshevist Russia". Not only Sergei Melgunov, but the entire scope of the emigrant Russian press insistently repeated it after 1922, i.e. when the USSR was already created. This serves a separate evidence of an estimate of this construction as a "local bias".
Respectfully, Cherurbino ( talk) 10:08, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
P.S. Hoping to find understanding between us in this minor discrepancy, and looking forward to further cooperation between us in en-wiki, I want to draw you attention to this large article of mine which I created last year in ru-wiki
Highly appreciating your
I hope you may find my materials to be useful for you as well. As you see, I haven't yet created Baltic Jews in parallel with ru:Евреи в Прибалтике :))) Cherurbino ( talk) 10:08, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
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I find myself slightly bemused by your comments on this proposed content inclusion. ~Were on earth out of the proposed content did you get "communist terrorism" is nothing but Nazi propaganda? Given this is actually what has happened? Look again at the sources, and think of the usage of the term at that period. Tentontunic ( talk) 23:22, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
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Hey Peters, when I check google ngram I get that all three names register and in fact it was only recently (post 1991) that "Vilnius" overtook "Vilna" in sources [4]. "Vilnius" did not over take "Wilno" until around 1970 [5]. "Wilno" still shows up though out of the three it is now the least frequently used one. Volunteer Marek ( talk) 21:20, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
I would just let you know that under "some users working in this area" I didn't mean you. In my opinion, your vision of some aspects of history is deeply distorted, however, I have seen no manifestation of dishonesty or bad faith from your side. I never accused you in bad faith, and I hope I'll never have reasons for that.-- Paul Siebert ( talk) 18:46, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
Is as usual being overrun with pointless blather. Would you like to set up a subpage to discuss sources? Tentontunic ( talk) 16:07, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
# | Source | Abstract | Time Period Covered | CT Links |
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1 | Terror: From Tyrannicide to Terrorism, Brett Bowden, Michael T. Davis editors, University of Queensland Press, 2008, ISBN-13 978-0702235993 | Collection of essays by experts | Lead essay is "throughout the ages", comprehensive view | Revolutionary terrorist groups include Marxist-Leninist GRAPO, French Direct Action, Belgium's Fighting Communist Cells, Portuguese FP-25 (Popular Forces of April 25)... active late 1970's/mid 1980's; briefly forged an alliance of "fighting communist organizations" with the RAF (German Red Army Faction), pp 255-256 next, same source |
2 | Daniel Heradstveit, Helge Hveem. Oil in the Gulf: obstacles to democracy and development. 2004. Ashgate. ISBN 978-0754639688 | source2 | source2 | The Anti-Imperialist Armed Front was an alliance of three FCO. Actione Direct (AD) of France the Red Army Faction (RAF) of Germany and the Communist Combatant Cells (CCC) from Belgium. This group carried out bombing attacks on NATO pipelines in 1984 to 1985. The RAF carried out six attacks on pipelines in Germany. The CCC targeted six pumping stations on the 3700mile long pipeline which spanned Belgium, the Netherlands, France, Luxembourg and Germany. The attacks resulted in the pipeline being shut down for a 48hr period. There were no armed attacks on personnel from this group and this is believed to be due to the CCC having an aversion to excessive violence. The AD bombed the corporate offices of the Elf Aquitaine oil company in Paris. pp120 |
3 | source | abstract | covers time period | material and page #'s
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3 | source | abstract | covers time period | material and page #'s
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4 | source | abstract | covers time period | material and page #'s
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5 | source | abstract | covers time period | material and page #'s
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I suggest you to take into account that current scholarly consensus (expressed by such an anti-Communist scholar as Robert Conquest) is that, whereas the Getty's figures do not reflect the total number of the victims of Stalinist repressions, they correctly reflect the GULAG population. All needed information is in the article and in the talk page archive. I doubt it is possible to question the publication in The American Historical Review; it is equally impossible that Conquest's may have any pro-Soviet bias. Therefore, all your additions reflect just a history of the issue, and should be treated as such. Please, bring the text you add into the accordance with what reliable sources say. Please, keep also in mind that English sources are preferable in English Wikipedia.-- Paul Siebert ( talk) 20:06, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
I've read the Conquest-Wheatcroft dialogs et al. IMHO you appear eager to pass judgement on sources based on your believing others are eager to do so as well. What I said regarding Volkogonov was simply that he was worth reading. Nor did I postulate that because archives are biased that all hypotheses [based on the archives] are equally probable (or improbable). What I stated was that archives are politicized, meaning they contain both records (of varying accuracy) as well as politicized history; and that anyone who merely quotes the archives—and there are many who do (finally the archives are open and we shall know the "truth")—is perpetuating that politicization. ("History serves politics.") There is no agenda behind what I say; take what I say at face value, not at what you infer.
PЄTЄRS J V ►
TALK
03:41, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
Re "No one knows any real numbers, and the estimates are very different." What do we have in actuality?
In connection to that, how should we present all these facts in Wikipedia? I cannot participate in long discussion, because my access to Internet is limited now. I replied only on what caught my eye, I'll respond in details later.-- Paul Siebert ( talk) 01:15, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
I will only observe somewhat bemusedly how Conquest has been rabidly attacked when inconvenient and put up on a pedestal when convenient. Our mission is to question sources, to represent sources. Unfortunately, there is virtually no discussion on WP on what sources actually say, just arguing over who or what is, or isn't, the "latest" or "obsolete"—that's a particular favorite used to suppress content. The letter and spirit of WP policy is that the validity of publications should be questioned, that they be represented in the light of the best scholarly critical thinking, otherwise WP would be full of propaganda from all sides on all topics of contention. Really, I do tire of endless contentions that the letter and spirit of WP policy are being violated whenever one wishes to dig into what a source contends. Unfortunately, one of the core issues WP faces today—and which drives potential contributors away—is that all too often editors enamored of their POV (whether rightly or wrongly is irrelevant) consider "question" and "dispute" as one and the same, obviating (from their perspective) the need for critical discussion. It's a sad commentary that some of my best discourse on a topic has been with confirmed paid propaganda pushers who, owing to their job description, felt compelled to persuade myself and others of their reasoning.
PЄTЄRS J V ►
TALK
14:22, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
What do you know about the use of Supreme Soviet vs. Supreme Council? I reverted the IP on Transnistria and Politics of Transnistria because "Supreme Council" is the name used by the official website, but running a google search Supreme Soviet is quite common as well. Is there a history behind this? I'm personally leaning towards calling it the Supreme Council, per their official English Translation. Chipmunkdavis ( talk) 16:53, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the kind words, nice to hear from you. Tymek ( talk) 05:25, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
Re: It could even be someone attempting to get Tentontunic blocked through the suspicious appearance of anon IPs reverting to ostensibly avoid 3RR.
Even if you're paranoid, that doesn't mean they're not out there to get you
— Colin Sauter
That defense of edit warriors by you is dejavu all over again. ( Igny ( talk) 22:44, 19 April 2011 (UTC))
Yes, I agree with your opinion (also nicely formulated by Bukovsky) that a middle ground between very big lie and truth is ...lie. But there is little you can do about it. In a long run, all our talks here belong to garbage, and only content counts. If you enjoyed talking or wanted to explain something to others, that would be fine, but many of your current discussions are clearly unproductive. None of your "opponents" is interested in Latvian culture and history. If you switch to editing other subjects, they will probably leave you alone. This is merely a practical consideration. Why waste your nerves and time? Hodja Nasreddin ( talk) 20:20, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
WikiProject Poland Newsletter • April 2011
For our freedom and yours Welcome to our first issue of WikiProject Poland newsletter, the Monitor (named after the first Polish newspaper). Our Project has been operational since 1 June, 2005, and also serves as the Poland-related Wikipedia notice board. I highly recommend watchlisting the Wikipedia:WikiProject Poland page, so you can be aware of the ongoing discussions. We hope you will join us in them, if you haven't done so already! Unlike many other WikiProjects, we are quite active; in this year alone about 40 threads have been started on our discussion page, and we do a pretty good job at answering all issues raised. In addition to a lively encyclopedic, Poland-related, English-language discussion forum, we have numerous useful tools that can be of use to you - and that you could help us maintain and develop:
This is not all; on our page you can find a list of useful templates (including userboxes), awards and other tools! With all that said, how about you join our discussions at WT:POLAND? Surely, there must be something you could help others with, or perhaps you are in need of assistance yourself? You have received this newsletter because you are listed as a [member link] at WikiProject Poland. • Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 21:11, 25 April 2011 (UTC) |
Delivered by EdwardsBot ( talk) 21:22, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
Do you like something like this? Hodja Nasreddin ( talk) 05:12, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
Sveiks, I'd advise you not to feed the troll by reverting him any more, as that's what this creature is actually up to. His categorizations usually do more harm than good, in my opinion contributing to general overcategorization we have here, making it difficult to reach the useful information. I've just reported him, so I hope it won't take long before he'll be shown to the door. Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 17:15, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
Enforcement by indefinite ban of User:Vecrumba is declined. User:The Four Deuces is banned indefinitely from editing articles which relate to minority peoples of the Soviet Union due to repeated violations of the warning in Section 8 of the decision Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Vecrumba. Appeal is to the Arbitration Committee. User:Fred Bauder Talk 00:08, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
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I agree with you that fringe views and conspiracy theories have no place in Wikipedia. This goes for both the area you are the most interested in (the Baltics) as well as for my field of interest (Russia), and all other articles too. I think the worst thing is when people insert material based on conspiracy theory or fringe books (these are usually written by attention-seeking journalists, political agitators and lobbyists). Academic sources almost never take these theories seriously, or even mention them. Yet some people keep inserting them to Wikipedia, because these editors have agendas. I think we should all work together to stop these people using Wikipedia as a tool for promoting their lies and fringe views. Nanobear ( talk) 11:11, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
Hello Pēteris, Stumbled over an user essay with a very sharp perspective. Talk/ ♥фĩłдωəß♥\ Work 20:09, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
I agree with you, Igny's use of "liberation" is intended mostly as a taunt. However, by seizing on it as you did at the talkpage of the 1944 re-occupation article, you have played into his hands. He's just throwing "liberation" in as a red herring to distract those who are trying to get the title back to the correct version. He knows that "liberation" has a snowball's chance in hell of being the title; he's just hoping to create tangential arguments. His behaviour is reprehensible at best, and his recent page-move seems an awful lot like gaming the system to me. Regardless, try not to blow up at him over such things. It will only create more problems and leave you open for potential repercussions. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen ( talk) 16:51, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
Above you said "note that the author there, who heavily promotes his book based on reputable sources and folks indicating his scholarship is good, does not merit a Wiki article." I was wondering, which author are you referring to? Also, don't you think the Looveer article should be nominated to AfD? Wouldn't that be a nice way of ending the disputes surrounding this little-known article? Nanobear ( talk) 14:10, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
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Come here, we'll solve it. -- 95.55.230.99 ( talk) 10:25, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
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I would appreciate if you stopped your continued personal attacks against me. Thanks. Nanobear ( talk) 16:36, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
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Hi, you recently added a reference to this article but did not supply a page number, would you be so kind as to do so? Thank you. The Last Angry Man ( talk) 09:42, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
Since you have been interested in similar affairs, I was wondering, what is your opinion of Journal of Cosmology? The Journal probably isn't a reliable source, but the article, as it is, resembles an attack page (almost 100% of it is criticism). Do you think this is encyclopedic enough? Even the article of an evil person such as Osama bin Laden consists mostly of "neutral" description, not 100% of criticism. Nanobear ( talk) 18:34, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, when I was originally posting (before editing out for off-topicness), I had meant to imply that the concept of Estonians swallowing Nazi propaganda was doubtful at best, especially considering the Estonians' animosity for Nazi Germany. -- Yalens ( talk) 20:13, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
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I just spotted your message, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. Quite a few of my links are busted up right now, drop me a line if you need any of the documents concerned and I'd be happy to email them to you. MutantPop@aol.com Carrite ( talk) 19:35, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
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I made a couple of comments at Gulag talk page, but this is not really a big deal. It might be a good idea to actually contribute to content of articles on the subject rather than be involved in discussions, but unfortunately I do not have time for that right now. Good luck! Biophys ( talk) 14:23, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
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FYI Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Vecrumba -- Russavia Let's dialogue 13:47, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification#Request_for_clarification:_WP:DIGWUREN. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 21:04, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
FYI: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Vecrumba_2. Nanobear ( talk) 02:57, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
Hello Pēteris. I am working on filling in some blanks to make the article, The Case for Latvia, meet the notability criterias for books. Perhaps you are familiar with the magazine Jaunā Gaita? Would you say that the article 2 Zinātņu doktori par rislaki veikumi meets the first criteria of notability of books? Talk/ ♥фĩłдωəß♥\ Work 16:47, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
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Dear Vecrumba,
I consider a possibility to file the AE request as explained on the MCuCR talk page
[10]. However, since the sanctions are not my primary goals, I would like to discuss this draft with you first. I hope it would be useful to look at the issue again. That may help to avoid some negative consequences and to save the arbitrators' time.
Regards.--
Paul Siebert (
talk)
01:29, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Peters, I would appreciate if you looked and answered on my last post I made
here. This thread was initiated by you, and although I initially replied in somewhat aggressive manner (for what I apologise), upon meditation, I came to understanding that the question you raised deserves more serious attention. I would like to continue this discussion.
It would be also good if you looked at my last post
here, where, as I believe, I was able to explain my viewpoint more clearly. You are not obliged to comment, however, I would like you to at least read it.
I also started to feel that the new attempt to come to consensus is likely to fail. If that will occur, I'll probably restore the version that had been modified with violations of the editing restrictions, and, if some of the users listed in the AE draft will revert it back, I'll file this AE request. Frankly speaking, I do agree that the addition you made to the footnote is in the gray zone, so they may be considered as minor or major edit depending on the context. I think, these figures (along with others) belong to the article, and should be moved to the appropriate section (which has to be created). I believe, we two, as the users belonging to two opposing camps, may persuade others to add this section. In connection to that, I don't think you will have any reason to re-revert my prospective revert of the edits disputable that are the subject of the last dispute, and I, accordingly, will not have to list you in the AE request (although I still hope I'll be able to avoid doing that).
Regards.--
Paul Siebert (
talk)
21:20, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
@Paul, you vastly overstate my skills in Russian, I did know my grammar was incorrect but I was in a rush so I just put it together without figuring out proper declension. As I have no desire to offend, I have stricken mine above and provided the English. Moreover, I will at least attempt to remember to use "Ja, ja, ja" not "Да, да, да" in the future when rhetorically expressing my disagreement with the nationalist-patriots. (Feel free to save a diff and remind me if I forget.)
Our discourse here rather points to our differing perspectives. Working backwards:
And so, to underscore that my use of Cyrillic is not derogatory, and reflecting that self-described "anti-nationalists" (not you) define their position as being diametrically opposed to mine, I sign myself, respectfully, Националист-патриот ► TALK 20:40, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
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Dear Vecrumba: Hello. This is just to let you know that you've been mentioned in the following request at the Mediation Cabal, which is a Wikipedia dispute resolution initiative that resolves disputes by informal mediation.
The request can be found at Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/02 October 2011/Holodomor.
Just so you know, it is entirely your choice whether or not you participate. If you wish to do so, and we'll see what we can do about getting this sorted out. At MedCab we aim to help all involved parties reach a solution and hope you will join in this effort.
If you have any questions relating to this or any other issue needing mediation, you can ask on the case talk page, the MedCab talk page, or you can ask the mediator, Steven Zhang, at their talk page.
By any chance do you or any editor you know have access to this [12] I should like to know what it has to say regarding communist terrorism, Thanks. The Last Angry Man ( talk) 19:04, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
Although I am now going to be unjustly blocked again for sockpuppetry I would appreciate if you would still send me the article we spoke of, it would be a useful reference source for the book I am currently writing. Thank you. The Last Angry Man ( talk) 12:16, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Hello Vercrumba: I saw your question on the Collaboration With Axis Powers talk page about scholarly sources talking about levels of collaboration. I don't think it qualifies as "scholarly" (even if it's published by the Praeger University Series), but historian Hugh Seton-Watson wrote "The East European Revolution." At the beginning of Chapter Six (pages 106-107), he lists five levels of collaboration. I can type them up if you can't get ahold of a copy. In any case, I would guess his other work might be somewhere to look for a definition that suits your needs. Best, IWTH ( talk) 20:24, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
I saw your comments in mediation. I think main point of contention there is the deliberate nature of the famine. One should not really answer "yes" or "no", but simply give some "arguments", pro and contra, as provided by good historians. Not sure if you read the book "Harvest of Sorrow" by Conquest (see pages 326-329). The deliberate nature of the famine was supported by the following arguments. (1) when Stalin started the excessive requisitions of grain in 1932, he already knew that similar policies resulted in the famine of 1918-1921. (2) the Russian-Ukrainian border was blockaded to prevent entry of grain to the Ukraine; orders were given and enforced to prevent food, legally obtained being brought to Ukraine from Russia (3) When starvation and death began and that became known to Stalin, the requisitions of grain still continued, (4) bread rations were established in cities, but not in villages; (5) grain was available in stores in the famine area, but not released to peasants; (6) the destruction of Ukrainian cultural life and religion and the slaughter of their intelligentsia was conducted simultaneously with the famine; (7) Stalin considered peasantry as the bulwark of nationalism. Hence the ultimate solution of peasantry "problem" was the way of dealing with Ukrainian nationalism problem. Biophys ( talk) 02:41, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
P.S. Perhaps you do not realized it, but when I was sanctioned (R-B case), that was done by dispatching several SPAs who behaved deliberately ridiculous: claimed me to be a terrorist supporter, promised to meet me in Moscow, and made ridiculous edits in articles and reverted me when I tried to fix them. I do not think some of the guys even believed in something they said at talk pages. In a normal situation, some of them would be quickly blocked as disruption only accounts, but in the present situation one of them (with nickname of an automatic weapon) was not sanctioned even during the arbitration. The only way of dealing with them in present situation is not pay attention, whatever damage they will do to wikipedia content. Biophys ( talk) 13:12, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
Actually, I have a solution to the whole occupation admission thing. Russia, having chosen to be the legal successor of the USSR, does not recognize the Baltic states as continuous and finds itself needing to play the whole "joined" card to denounce demands for reparations as null and void. It would mean giving up any future demands for reparations (like those are ever going to happen), however, if the Baltic countries refused to recognize Russia as the legal successor of the USSR, that would free Russia to acknowledge occupation as it would have been released from any obligation as successor, as the Baltics would have explicitly recognized occupation as an act of another regime. To reconcile the irreconcilable, diplomacy must achieve a perfect balance of plausible and implausible. Just a wild, half-baked thought, hangover from a 5:00AM conference call the other morning.
PЄTЄRS J V ►
TALK
02:16, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
You are invited to Wikipedia:The Musical in NYC, an editathon, Wikipedia meet-up and lectures that will be held on Saturday, October 22, 2011, at the New York Public Library for the Performing Arts (at Lincoln Center), as part of the Wikipedia Loves Libraries events being held across the USA.
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I saw your last AE comment. He demonstrated that he came from this IP: [16]. Among all banned pro-Soviet users, his daily activity cycle coincides only with User:Cognition aka User:172, see edits by the latter (you can check yourself using this wikitool). This is not enough for asking checkuser at this point. Biophys ( talk) 01:11, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
Sander has started a draft style guide Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Baltic states-related articles to enshrine the current editorial practices and style in Baltic articles, perhaps you may want to contribute. -- Martin Tammsalu ( talk) 20:12, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
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In conjunction with a mildly amusing discussion I had on the ru:Latvia talk page, I gotta ask: so, what is the de jure date of Latvian statehood? -- illythr ( talk) 18:32, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
Short answer
Long answer:
That's still not it: the basic idea is that the recognition granted by RSFSR to SSLR fulfilled the criterion of international recognition, thus creating the first de-jure state on that territory. Recognition of the same kind as granted by the RSFSR to the Latvian Republic in 1920 and by the other countries in 1921. Nothing to do with transfer of sovereign authority of any kind. -- illythr ( talk) 21:59, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
I've revied your comment regarding the unfortunate nature of the Kyiv post, mentioning the owners name and saying that is why it might be anti-Christian. After looking up what the owners name actually is, I am appaled you would find that just because someone has a certain name they would be anti-Christian. I remind you that racism is not welcomed on Wikipedia.
-- Ljudyna ( talk) 02:19, 6 November 2011 (UTC)Ljudyna
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Vecrumba, what is in fact "unacceptable" is the battleground mentality you are displaying in your aggressive exchange at User talk:Paul Siebert#Unacceptable. Knock it off, or you'll be blocked again. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:28, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
Dear Vecrumba/Archive 5: Hello, this is to let you know that a Mediation Cabal case that you are involved in, or have some connection with:
is currently inactive as it has not been edited in at least a week. If the issues in the case have been resolved, please let us know on our talk page so we can close the case. If there are still issues that need to be addressed, let us know. If your mediator has become inactive, also let us know. The case will be closed in one month if it remains inactive. You can let us know what's going on by sending a message through to your mediator, Steven Zhang, on their talk page. Thanks! MedcabBot ( talk) 12:19, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
Thank you for your prompt reply and for taking immediate action .It is appreciated. Just FYI. I see some random links after your reply, which seems like "spam:" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Brahma_Kumaris_World_Spiritual_University:_External_link_section
Riveros11 ( talk) 01:19, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
I have disagreement with you on this one but let us be discussing on talk page.
Site in question is keeping best resource of third party academic papers on topic [17]. I am thinking this is not your special area and Brahma Kumar member above is just playing you. -- Januarythe18th ( talk) 03:56, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
As you found out, this website is a personal website owned by an individual and not a group or organization. I have proof of that and I will be happy to disclose it.
The user complaining, "January 18" is an impersonation of many ids which have been disabled before by many admins which belong to the same individual.
That website (brahmakumaris.info) has violated some Wikipedia rules as described before in my link check question. Namely, it is non neutral material but very biased and it has been used to insult brahma Kumaris editors.
It is my hope, that you will be able to enforce what you found to be true. I can provide with all the details if needed.
Will respond on the discussion page as well.
Riveros11 ( talk) 16:00, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
Hi Vecrumba, this is a boilerplate message to let you know that we have moved on to issue two of the Holodomor mediation, victim estimates. At the moment we are accepting statements from all participants, so if you want to make your position on this issue known, then now would be a very good time to contribute. Your statement should be no longer than 200 words, and should include both your opinion on the issue and what you hope will be addressed in the mediation. We will be accepting statements until 00:00, 22 December 2011 (UTC), or until we have statements from all spokespersons. Please note, however, that even if you miss this deadline you are free to contribute to the mediation at any time. You can find the appropriate section on the mediation page here. All the best — Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 06:46, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
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Dear Vecrumba/Archive 5: Hello, this is to let you know that a Mediation Cabal case that you are involved in, or have some connection with:
is currently inactive as it has not been edited in at least a week. If the issues in the case have been resolved, please let us know on our talk page so we can close the case. If there are still issues that need to be addressed, let us know. If your mediator has become inactive, also let us know. The case will be closed in one month if it remains inactive. You can let us know what's going on by sending a message through to your mediator, Steven Zhang, on their talk page. Thanks! MedcabBot ( talk) 06:17, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
Dear Vecrumba/Archive 5: Hello, this is to let you know that a Mediation Cabal case that you are involved in, or have some connection with:
is currently inactive as it has not been edited in at least a week. If the issues in the case have been resolved, please let us know on our talk page so we can close the case. If there are still issues that need to be addressed, let us know. If your mediator has become inactive, also let us know. The case will be closed in one month if it remains inactive. You can let us know what's going on by sending a message through to your mediator, Steven Zhang, on their talk page. Thanks! MedcabBot ( talk) 15:13, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
Hi there, you told me to let you know once the article is up for re-nomination. Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Battle of Radzymin (1920). Consider yourself poked :) BTW, let me know should you need any help with the Courland Pocket thingie, I'm sure I can be of some help. // Halibu tt 21:40, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
I have my moments for example see talk:Courland Pocket where we exchanged comments with others back in 2008. -- PBS ( talk) 06:12, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
Nominations for the " Military Historian of the Year" for 2011 are now open. If you would like to nominate an editor for this award, please do so here. Voting will open on 22 January and run for seven days. Thanks! On behalf of the coordinators, Nick-D ( talk) and Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 00:46, 16 January 2012 (UTC) You were sent this message because you are a listed as a member of the Military history WikiProject.
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Dear Vecrumba/Archive 5: Hello, this is to let you know that a Mediation Cabal case that you are involved in, or have some connection with:
is currently inactive as it has not been edited in at least a week. If the issues in the case have been resolved, please let us know on our talk page so we can close the case. If there are still issues that need to be addressed, let us know. If your mediator has become inactive, also let us know. The case will be closed in one month if it remains inactive. You can let us know what's going on by sending a message through to your mediator, Steven Zhang, on their talk page. Thanks! MedcabBot ( talk) 12:44, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
I'd invite you to officially join our project, and you may want to participate in the interview. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me 18:57, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests#Anonimu and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—
Thanks, Codrin.B ( talk) 02:50, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
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i saw your discussion opinions of the swedes article talkpage , it seems to me that the discussion ended too abruptly , can you please continue it i will support you if i must 95.199.10.103 ( talk) 16:13, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
I created that category for governments that used to be in exile but not longer are, either because they came back from exile (as is the case for the Estonian government in exile) or because they ceased to exist. Maybe the category should be renamed Governments formely in exile or Governments historically in exile. What do you think?-- Cattus talk 22:26, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
Paldies Jums par padomiem! Fermmyt ( talk) 16:33, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Please be advised that the Arbitration Committee has now opened a Review of the background relating to the Request for Amendment at which you submitted a statement. A Review is a streamlined version of case, with a short window for presenting evidence.
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Want to talk about something over a beer? Is there some article we could work on together? Perhaps something about Latvia; Latvian articles are neglected, while all kinds of hot political topics get too much attention and energy. Nanobear ( talk) 01:11, 19 March 2012 (UTC) |
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Please see my comment to Talk:Western betrayal that starts "VєсrumЬа I think you are making a mistake in the way you are discussing this ...". -- PBS ( talk) 15:18, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi, I'm not sure what happened but it seems we got off of the wrong foot on the talk page at western betrayal. I am happy to take the blame if we can reset and diffuse the tension or any personal conflict! My interest in the article is mainly to see that there is something more than just a long list of Polish dirty laundry pieces aimed at their wartime partners, which is mainly what it is now. As it happens I agree with the Polish accusations as far as they go, but I am certain they are truly understood only in a larger context both of overall Polish culture/history and in terms of the overall history of that part of Europe in the 20th century. In other words, a closer look at Polaish behaviour is warranted if the article is going to be so critical of other nations behavior. Also, except to say that it is so long that a casual reader quickly losses interest (and thus the point is lost), I am not very interested in editing the long history of betrayals portion, as I feel the betrayal-minded have a point and should be heard here. I just think there should be a mirror held up to those making the accusations so that readers can better judge the context of those claiming betrayal. Kind wishes, MGZ MarshallGeorgyZhukov ( talk) 18:35, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
![]() Dispute Resolution – Survey Invite Hello Vecrumba. I am currently conducting a study on the dispute resolution processes on the English Wikipedia, in the hope that the results will help improve these processes in the future. Whether you have used dispute resolution a little or a lot, now we need to know about your experience. The survey takes around five minutes, and the information you provide will not be shared with third parties other than to assist in analyzing the results of the survey. No personally identifiable information will be released. Please click
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Hi Peters, you may be interested in Wikipedia:HighBeam/Applications. Cheers, Nug ( talk) 18:07, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
Good news! You now have access to 80 million articles in 6500 publications through HighBeam Research. Here's what you need to know:
Thanks for helping make Wikipedia better. Enjoy your research! Cheers, Ocaasi t | c 21:05, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
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Hey, V. Over here [18] you reverted me, with edit summary "Source is absolutely clear about official atheism and pursuit of militant Leninist interpretation of Marxist atheism, no synthesis here." As I'd explained, "I see no reference to "Marxist-Leninist atheism" in Sacks' book." Could you clarify which page supports the sentence that "The Soviet Union was the first state to declare the promotion of Marxist–Leninist atheism an official policy"? Having searched the book for the phrase "Marxist-Leninist atheism", I found no reference to "Marxist-Leninist atheism" in it. The synth involved is in the actual phrase: did the Soviet Union officially promote "Marxist-Leninist atheism as an official policy" - or did the party promote atheism within an officially secular state?
A paragraph on p. 167 states that the USSR was the first modern state to promote atheism because of the country's control by the Communist Party, but that the state itself was secular. That was in the text we already had, so there does not appear to be an improvement. If you are sure that there is material on "Marxist-Leninist atheism" in the book, would you please reproduce the paragraph containing it? Zloyvolsheb ( talk) 04:46, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
Look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Marxist%E2%80%93Leninist_atheism&diff=488882053&oldid=488396395 All of the citations were removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Агафья ( talk • contribs) 03:14, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
There is more here too that you did not add back: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Marxist%E2%80%93Leninist_atheism&diff=488882053&oldid=488396395 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Агафья ( talk • contribs) 03:19, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
I did not write those things there but the citations should not be removed. If you are able, please fix them again because I am not able to. For this I will be grateful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Агафья ( talk • contribs) 17:02, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
This one says "abolish" good sir: http://books.google.com/books?id=R0PrjC1Ar7gC&pg=PA43&dq=%22Marxist+atheism%22+%22China%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=D9uWT_7POsfk0QGDrZW5Dg&ved=0CFcQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=%22Marxist%20atheism%22%20%22China%22&f=false — Preceding unsigned comment added by Агафья ( talk • contribs) 17:06, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
"Therefore, the abolition of religion and the abolition of the capitalist system are the same process. The party requires its 64 million members to believe in Marxist atheism, and to educate the masses of various ethnic groups with the Marxist perspective on religion." Now you should put the article back as it was. VєсrumЬа says you should change the wording, not remove the citations. Please fix them. For this I will be grateful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Агафья ( talk • contribs) 23:57, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
I am talking about the definition, not China or the Soviet Union. So just put them back and change it to "will wither away" like VєсrumЬа said.
If you are not aware that Marxism-Leninism was the basis of the government for the CCCP, read this: "The Russian Orthodox Church was the only officially allowed religious institution, and the official policy of the state was Marxist-Leninist atheism." You can look at it here: http://books.google.com/books?id=qx7Tvd99xVAC&pg=PA232&dq=The+Russian+Orthodox+Church+was+the+only+officially+allowed+religious+institution,+and+the+official+policy+of+the+state+was+Marxist-Leninist+atheism.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=WDN1T_fUN4Ku0AGczvioDQ&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=The%20Russian%20Orthodox%20Church%20was%20the%20only%20officially%20allowed%20religious%20institution%2C%20and%20the%20official%20policy%20of%20the%20state%20was%20Marxist-Leninist%20atheism.&f=false If you don't put the citations back, then I give up. VєсrumЬа can look at it, or someone else but this is not right. That is all I have to say. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Агафья ( talk • contribs) 02:15, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
I am beginning to suspect that you are not from Russia. If you would like to know more about the treatment of the Jews, then read this: http://books.google.com/books?id=2Ae-e3MUVjkC&pg=PA99&dq=But+the+hundreds+of+thousands+of+Jews+in+the+Soviet+sector+were+subject+to+the+regime's+ruthless+campaign+of+militant+atheism.+Synagogues+were+closed,+demolished,+or+converted+for+secular+use,+and+religious+life+was+crushed.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xmKXT_SxL4Lh0QGws8jSDg&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=But%20the%20hundreds%20of%20thousands%20of%20Jews%20in%20the%20Soviet%20sector%20were%20subject%20to%20the%20regime's%20ruthless%20campaign%20of%20militant%20atheism.%20Synagogues%20were%20closed%2C%20demolished%2C%20or%20converted%20for%20secular%20use%2C%20and%20religious%20life%20was%20crushed.&f=false
It is a well known fact that the religious were persecuted in the Soviet Union and the fact that you state that they weren't speaks volumes. I will be going now. This matter is out of my hands. I assumed you knew about these things. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Агафья ( talk • contribs) 02:39, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
I provided the links and you do not believe them. I am done here and am leaving. I leave the rest up to you and VєсrumЬа. Goodbye. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Агафья ( talk • contribs) 03:12, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
@ Vecrumba: I don't think there is really a disagreement, since we seem to agree on facts. The reason I wanted to take a look at an exact quote was to see whether there was a special meaning to "Marxist-Leninist atheism" apart from the Soviet-style view of religion as contradicting "scientific" Marxism and the policies vis-a-vis religion enacted by the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. Sacks' book does not indicate that there is, and the term "Marxist-Leninist atheism" is never used there. Instead, Sacks writes that the state was statutorily neutral, but that the CPSU, favoring atheism, curbed the sphere of religious activity: "Although the government is statutorily neutral on questions of religion, as required by the clause of the Soviet Constitution that guarantees "freedom and conscience," the Communist party (CPSU) claims no such neutrality. Thus, the CPSU's control of the government organs insures that the state, in fact, is not totally neutral in regard to religion. Through state and party operations, religious institutions are limited in the scope of their activities, and the religious consciousness of the population is combated." (p. 167)
Before, the article already said that "In Soviet law, the 'freedom to hold religious services' was constitutionally guaranteed, although the ruling Communist Party regarded religion as incompatible with the Marxist–Leninist spirit of scientific materialism.[129] In practice, the Soviet system subscribed to a narrow interpretation of this right, and in fact utilized a range of official measures to discourage religion and curb the activities of religious groups.[129]" It then goes on to provide several examples. I think this is exactly what Sacks means. Since we are writing an encyclopedia article, we want to be informative but brief in scope, and this is adequately done by summarizing the state of religion in the Soviet Union and its basis in Marxism without bringing in an undefined term like "Marxist-Leninist atheism."
Sacks does call the USSR "the first modern state" to promote atheism officially. I'm not certain this claim is accurate because there was a notable effort to end theism in early Revolutionary France, a critical period in modernity. See Dechristianisation of France during the French Revolution. France first replaced theism with an atheistic Cult of Reason, then went over to the Deistic Cult of the Supreme Being. [19]
Агафья also introduced a second source [20], but this is the book Marxist-Leninist 'Scientific Atheism' and the Study of Religion and Atheism in the USSR. "Scientific atheism" is a Soviet term for religious studies in the critical Soviet form, introduced during the post-Stalin effort to inculcate atheism into the masses, and this is the focus of the book. Marxist critiques of religion are given in parallel and get detailed, but not the larger state role other than the general context; e.g.: "As Marxist, the leadership of the Communist Party has always expected secularisation to follow naturally from scientific progress and socio-economic change, but as Leninist, it has also been aware of the necessity of accelerating this process by an active policy of secularisation. Within this active policy of secularisation, and in particular within the area of the secularisation of consciousness, the study of religion..." (on p. 171)
Additionally, "The immediate period following the establishment of the Soviet state included a struggle against the Orthodox Church, which the revolutionaries considered an ally of the former ruling classes" was changed into "The immediate period following the establishment of the Soviet state included a 1917-1921 campaign against the Orthodox Church, which the revolutionaries considered an ally of the former ruling classes". First, this changes the meaning of the sentence: the early struggle with the Orthodox Church was more comprehensive than the campaign in 1917-1922. Second, if "Soviet state" refers to Soviet Union, that state was founded in 1922, and the campaign in 1917-1921 campaign could not have chronologically come after. Zloyvolsheb ( talk) 08:35, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
Hi!
My name is Victor and I'm a storyteller with the Wikimedia Foundation, the non-profit organization that supports Wikipedia. I'm chronicling the inspiring stories of the Wikipedia community around the world, including those from readers, editors, and donors. Stories are absolutely essential for any non-profit to persuade people to support the cause, and we know the vast network of people who make and use Wikipedia have so much to share. I found your username from the Highbeam application list.
I'd very much like the opportunity to interview you to tell your story, with the possibility of using it in our materials, on our community websites, or as part of this year’s fundraiser to encourage others to support Wikipedia. Please let me know if you're inclined to take part in the Wikipedia Stories Project, or if you know anyone with whom I should speak.
Thank you for your time,
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How do you know this? Also selective listings smell of censorshop/promotion and whats not.
I see this not only in "Latvia" page. It is OK if the subject is narrow and it is difficult to find "further reading". However I feel uneasy when a random wikipedian (especialy anonymous one in this case) is trusted with arbitrary selection.
A good idea would be to somehow ensure quality of the bibliography, i.e., 'notability of the books. For example, list only books with wikipedia articles for books or for authors. If there are none, add brief summary/review, from a respectable source, which attests book quality. What do you think? Staszek Lem ( talk) 19:38, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
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Hi, on VM's page you said "there are tons of recipes" - so were you saying the cake's notable in your view? I really don't understand the others' views on this, so I'd appreciate your comment. Malick78 ( talk) 14:25, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
Well, one person's warning over vandalism and stalking is the perpetrator's nonsense. Easier than hunting down diffs in the future. VєсrumЬа ► TALK 16:00, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
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i'm sorry for the edit summary. please accept my apologies. altetendekrabbe 15:00, 12 June 2012 (UTC) |
Be careful in your posts. The racist trolls are obviously trying to get you to lose your calm, and get you banned on a civility violation. Just step back from those discussions for 24 hours and read (and reply) just once a day. That will be good for your pressure and we won't lose you to a forced vacation from Wikipedia. -- Sander Säde 17:30, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
This your edit summary [21] is blatantly wrong and misleading. You state I have been engaged in synthesis, whereas I made no statements that are are not explicitly present in the quotes provided by me. Your edit summaries are more and more false and incivil. Please, stop that.-- Paul Siebert ( talk) 15:28, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
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At User:Xil's talk page you offered to make further recordings of the pronunciation of Latvian words, albeit as a low-priority project. I'm currently trying to improve the coverage of Latvian words at the English Wiktionary, where I've noticed that only a few entries are provided with pronunciation... So, if you ever have a break, you could just have a look at the Wiktionary wikt:Category:Latvian nouns, pick any five (they probably won't have pronunciation files), record their pronunciation (preferably in .ogg format, but if you do .wav or .mp3 I can convert them) and then upload them to Commons (via the Upload Wizard), placing them in the Commons Category:Latvian pronunciation, where I can find them and attach them to the appropriate Wiktionary entries. There's no hurry, no urgency. Whenever you manage to find time to do this, do also leave a note at my Wiktionary talk page so that I'll know there are new pronunciation files available. Liels paldies! -- Pereru ( talk) 04:23, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
Jokes aside, it is important to realize that wikijustice follows Russian model "sudit' po ponjatijam, and ne po zakonu", meaning "to judge based on our understanding [what is best for the business], not based on the law". And the business here is creating good encyclopedia. Arguing on noticeboards is usually not good for the business. Speaking about myself, I am switching to a new and very challenging scientific project (get some funding!) and probably will not be able to contribute on-wiki. Happy editing. My very best wishes ( talk) 12:18, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
wikt:Category:Requests for audio pronunciation (Latvian) has a starter list of words for which we'd wish to have Latvian sound files. There's no hurry or pressure, just in case you happen to have some time (and Audacity or some program that can save .ogg files...). -- Pereru ( talk) 20:25, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
The Lindsay Jones Encyclopedia of Religion has several articles relating to the topic of religion, and many if not most are available on the HighBeam site if you have access to it. If you don't, drop me an e-mail and I'll have the site e-mail them to you. John Carter ( talk) 19:29, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
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Re [24]: Please clarify how this comment refers to me, as the filer of the AE. I actually did expand the article with the most important contributions also for the Old Prussian, Latvian and Lithuanian religious history/language codifying [25] [26], putting the contributions to the Polish religious history in that context. It was VM who removed the Latvian enchirion and the Lithuanian bible [27]. I actually agree with this your talk page comment and have edited in that direction before I became frustrated by the name-calling and reverting and disengaged. So I can not quite understand your reproach? Skäpperöd ( talk) 18:01, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
You can't say you've "disengaged" if you've abandoned the article and moved on to filing an enforcement request. You've done the exact opposite. All you've done is open up the door for endless rehashing of and accusations regarding the past. Hence my reproach. VєсrumЬа ► TALK 18:58, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
I am glad that we seem to at least agree content-wise, but that is not the issue here. When VM called me a shithead, a liar and such, and came to an article he had not really edited before just when I (and HM, with whom he also has a "history") edit there, to start with a revert and a rant on the talk page, and the reverting of editors harrassed previously is so fast that the article gets protected, and him talking about his "annoying" friend who by coincidence shows up too - how can you assume that he "did not start it" and that the escalation happened by reporting that? I mean, seriously, imagine something like this happen to you at work, and VM would be fired immediately.
I don't think that you are impartial enough to mediate anything regarding VM or Molobo, given your past EEML collaboration [28]. However, I do not remember you taking part in the really mean actions against me back then, so I hope we get along anyway.
There remain however some points that you need to sort out. You are entitled to your opinions about VM and Molobo, and we can continue to get along well whatever opinion that is. However, you have in the past created the wrong impression of uninvolvement here [29] [30], with respect to FPaS after they blocked you for violating your EEML topic ban [31]. To not create a wrong impression at the current AE, I ask you to:
If you were open about that, and if you stopped cursing at AE about the EEML case being mentioned (just go by that warning regardless), that would be a good start. Regards Skäpperöd ( talk) 10:42, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
![]() |
The Polish Barnstar of National Merit, 2nd Class | |
For your constant help with the Poland-related articles and issues, on behalf of Wikipedia:WikiProject Poland, I award you the Polish Barnstar of National Merit, 2nd class. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 17:16, 23 August 2012 (UTC) | ||
this WikiAward was given to Vecrumba by Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here on 17:16, 23 August 2012 (UTC) |
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Welcome to the first edition of The Olive Branch. This will be a place to semi-regularly update editors active in dispute resolution (DR) about some of the most important issues, advances, and challenges in the area. You were delivered this update because you are active in DR, but if you would prefer not to receive any future mailing, just add your name to this page.
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--The Olive Branch 19:36, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
That was the first time when I posted anything on the RSN. This book is obviously a classic example of Neo-Stalinist pseudo-history. Based on the lack of support (and even lack of any helpful comments), one can conclude that posting such sources to RSN does not make any sense. If it were a Neo-Nazi source, the reaction would be very different. C'est la vie. My very best wishes ( talk) 05:11, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
The Military history WikiProject has started its 2012 project coordinator election process, where we will select a team of coordinators to organize the project over the coming year. If you would like to be considered as a candidate, please submit your nomination by 14 September. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to contact one of the current coordinators on their talk page. This message was delivered here because you are a member of the Military history WikiProject. – Military history coordinators ( about the project • what coordinators do) 10:05, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
This edition The Olive Branch is focusing on a 2nd dispute resolution RfC. Two significant proposals have been made. Below we describe the background and recent progress and detail those proposals. Please review them and follow the link at the bottom to comment at the RfC. We need your input!
View the full newsletter
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Until late 2003, Jimmy Wales was the arbiter in all major disputes. After the Mediation Committee and the Arbitration Committee were founded, Wales delegated his roles of dispute resolution to these bodies. In addition to these committees, the community has developed a number of informal processes of dispute resolution. At its peak, over 17 dispute resolution venues existed. Disputes were submitted in each venue in a different way. Due to the complexity of Wikipedia dispute resolution, members of the community were surveyed in April 2012 about their experiences with dispute resolution. In general, the community believes that dispute resolution is too hard to use and is divided among too many venues. Many respondents also reported their experience with dispute resolution had suffered due to a shortage of volunteers and backlogging, which may be due to the disparate nature of the process. An evaluation of dispute resolution forums was made in May this year, in which data on response and resolution time, as well as success rates, was collated. This data is here.
![]() Leading off from the survey in April and the evaluation in May, several changes to dispute resolution noticeboard (DRN) were proposed. Rather than using a wikitext template to bring disputes to DRN, editors used a new javascript form. This form was simpler to use, but also standardised the format of submissions and applied a word limit so that DRN volunteers could more easily review disputes. A template to summarise, and a robot to maintain the noticeboard, were also created. As a result of these changes, volunteers responded to disputes in a third of the time, and resolved them 60% faster when compared to May. Successful resolution of disputes increased by 17%. Submissions were 25% shorter by word count.(see Dispute Resolution Noticeboard Statistics - August compared to May) Outside of DRN other simplification has taken place. The Mediation Cabal was closed in August, and Wikiquette assistance was closed in September. Nevertheless, around fifteen different forums still exist for the resolution of Wikipedia disputes.
Given the success of the past efforts at DR reform, the current RFC proposes we implement: 1) A submission gadget for every DR venue tailored to the unique needs of that forum.
2) A universal dispute resolution wizard, accessible from Wikipedia:Dispute resolution.
3) Additionally, we're seeking any ideas on how we can attract and retain more dispute resolution volunteers. |
Please share your thoughts at the RfC.
--The Olive Branch 18:44, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
Regarding this, I request you to immediately apologise, and strike through the libel you posted. You have 24 hours.-- Paul Siebert ( talk) 21:39, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
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Could you please comment on
this on the MKuCR talk page.
Thank you in advance. --
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Labdien. Esmu pamanījis, ka Jūs esat atsevišķu attēlu autors. Vai Jūsu īpašumā ir arī citi interesanti attēli no Latvijas PSR ikdienas? -- Laurijs ( talk) 14:07, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
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Hello :-) I added pictures of famous people to the Latvians article. If you think anyone else should be added or someone should be removed feel free! Danton's Jacobin ( talk) 22:14, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
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You are invited to Wikipedia Goes to the Movies in NYC, an editathon, Wikipedia meet-up and workshops focused on film and the performing arts that will be held on Saturday, December 1, 2012, at the New York Public Library for the Performing Arts (at Lincoln Center), as part of the Wikipedia Loves Libraries events being held across the USA.
All are welcome, sign up on the wiki and at meetup.com!-- Pharos ( talk) 08:13, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
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You are invited to celebrate Wikipedia Day and the 12th anniversary (!) of the founding of the site at Wikipedia Day NYC on Saturday February 23, 2013 at New York University; sign up for Wikipedia Day NYC here, or at bit.ly/wikidaynyu. Newcomers are very welcome! Bring your friends and colleagues!
We especially encourage folks to add your 5-minute lightning talks to our roster, and otherwise join in the "open space" experience!-- Pharos ( talk) 03:28, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
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Hi user Vecrumba, I was surfing through the archives of various talk pages related to Soviet occupations in Europe. I've also seen your name somewhere before, maybe in request for feedback in the naming Rfc for Viipuri? Anyway, I appreciated your summary on your user page about Soviet vs. non-Soviet POV. I know this would be asking a lot, but if you would be inclined to take a look at the edit-war occurring at Continuation War, I'd really be grateful. I lament the Sovietization of WP, and I obviously have no appreciation yet just how endemic and pervasive this problem really is. Specifically, I'm wondering how to move the edit-war there to resolution. The main combatants in the war seem to just talk at each other rather than to each other. I'm not confident in mediation having much effect. Having watched how it went with the naming rfc for Viipuri and now another rfc in progress (referenced in the CW talk page), I'm kind of inclined to be pessimistic about it. Is it possible to escalate a content and process disagreement directly to arbitration? Thanks for your trouble! Paavo273 ( talk) 07:17, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
Two complaints have been filed at Administrators noticeboard/Incidents [37] seeking relief from actions taken by other users on the Continuation War talk page, on which you have been active. Paavo273 ( talk) 23:52, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
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You should be concentrating your arguments on the editors who agree with me. Otherwise, you're basically wasting your time 'zeroing in' on me. GoodDay ( talk) 04:42, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
I've already implemented the Rfc's decision, at NHL and former NHL player bios birth countries. GoodDay ( talk) 04:20, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Re this comment. I didn't want to answer on that page since it wasn't directly related to Winter War, but I did find it interesting.
Soviet structural-federal commitment to "self-determination", even if certain radical separatists were suppressed in early years, seems to have been the key enabler of the creation of 15 sovereign states when there was one before 1991. Iran, as one contrast, was a unitary state with no pretense to self-determination, so when Shah was overthrown, there was no " southern Azerbaijan" (but yes Soviet Azerbaijan) independence.
Also, isn't it a little bit deceptive to call the pre-SSRs "neighbors" of the Soviet Union, when they were constituent parts of the Russian Empire that were temporarily alienated from the center in the turmoil following the world wars and the overthrow of the imperial government. What would have been truly scandalous would be the Soviet Union annexing some state like Korea, which had no previous association with Russia or history of Russian rule.
Of course, I don't desire to discuss the Baltic states like they were representative of the SSRs, because they weren't, not least because today's and then's nationalist governments have the most appealing and sophisticated propaganda, even better than the well-practiced Russia. Shrigley ( talk) 01:25, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
Saw yours @ GoodDay's. Just so you know, legally according to international law, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania were never the "USSR". WP practice is to use the name of the legitimate sovereign nation. Of course, that does not prevent much wailings and gnashings of teeth over what to call the Baltic states while under the forcible control of the USSR. VєсrumЬа ► TALK 21:09, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
Saw yours @ GoodDay's. Just so you know, legally according to international law, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania were never the "USSR". WP practice is to use the name of the legitimate sovereign nation. Of course, that does not prevent much wailings and gnashings of teeth over what to call the Baltic states while under the forcible control of the USSR. VєсrumЬа ► TALK 21:09, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
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Mr T (Talk?) (New thread?) 16:26, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
there is an ongoing debate about the modern germanic peoples exist in [38] and [39] if the germanic peoples exist in modern times we need your help due your many expertise on the subject based on your contributions so please help us thanks Enbionycaar ( talk) 17:07, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
I've noticed your comments at Jagiellon dynasty, and filed a move request for discussion. Andrew Gray ( talk) 18:24, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
Any comments appreciated! -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 10:56, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
Any mention of cenzorship (even the tsarist one) has been removed. Xx236 ( talk) 09:00, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
I reverted the edit you made to Invasion of Poland#Aftermath. You questioned the citation. Follow the link for a pic of the page 62 Kursk blah blah blah (Lloyd Clark). http://postimg.org/image/6y4zrnlht/ EyeTruth ( talk) 05:42, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
I agree with you that it was the author's own inference, however he spent the next 5 pages bolstering it, and I was convinced when I considered other things I knew about German-Soviet relation between the summers of 1939 and 1941. The author asserts that while Stalin tried so hard to appease Germany, the red army command worked non-stop to prepare the itself for the obvious forthcoming war, although Stalin's intervention often hampered the preparations. But there is unequivocal evidence that Stalin wanted to avoid a war with Germany at least during that period at all cost, which went against his instincts to act preemptively against Germany as made clear in many of his statements.
I could post the other pages but I think that would be an abuse of fair use. On a side note, the author actually never extols Stalin's regime. In fact, he blamed Stalin for the disaster that befell the Red Army in 1941. But he also pointed out a few useful ends Stalin accomplished via horrific means, like the colossal overhaul he imposed on the Soviet production in the 1920s and 1930s. I've read two of his book and I can say he is one of the unbiased historians out there. EyeTruth ( talk) 18:09, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
I will cite the other pages. I've considered summarizing them as well, but I think they are beyond the scope of the article-- Stalin's denial of intelligence reports on German's preparations; Stalin's delivery of resources in strict adherence to the M-R pact, despite increasing German disinclination to fulfill its part; Stalin's refusal to order a full mobilization despite the pleas of his senior officer; These are the points Clark expounded on. They belong to Operation Barbarossa. I will leave them out in the Invasion of Poland, but I will cite the pages. EyeTruth ( talk) 19:09, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
Hi Vecrumba! You're invited to our next meeting for Wikipedia Meetup NYC on Sunday April 14 -this weekend- at Symposium Greek Restaurant @ 544 W 113th St (in the back room), on the Upper West Side in the Columbia University area.
Please sign up, and add your ideas to the agenda for Sunday. Thanks!
Delivered on behalf of User:Pharos, 17:48, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
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Thank you for your supportive comment at my draft (not yet public) Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Piotrus 2. Foreseeing some potential stormy clouds, may I suggest that your first comment/vote there may benefit from an added explanation of how did you became aware of the said RfA in the first place? -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:53, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
IMHO this will be a litmus test to see who can't let go of their personal investment in past conflict. Recall the accusations that the EEML had been active for years prior, many years in total, on the basis of no change in on-Wiki conduct or editorial position of any editor. Odd that not a single word of content by any editor was ever questioned as to being a fair and accurate representation of sources.
As for me, personally, I would have respected a ban for having had any discussion of WP off-WP. However my topic ban was based on bogus findings describing appearances only, saving Arbcom from putting themselves in the libelous position of calling me a liar. I'm mostly glad that's all over and done with, but some editors obviously find that irksome. Quite honestly, anyone still brandishing the EEML sword after all this time has no interest in protecting the project, only in pursuing their own sad personal vendettas—those who have begged for and received forgiveness for their past transgressions (real off-WP attacks) are demonstrably less magnanimous when it comes to others. VєсrumЬа ► TALK 05:37, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
Hello Vecrumba, -- Sandstunk ( talk) 12:13, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
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Pierogi Award |
Thanks for your support of my RfA. It didn't succeed this time, but that's no reason not to have some nice pierogi. Cheers, -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 14:19, 3 May 2013 (UTC) |
For a novel method of WP:SHOUTING on a talk page:
![]() |
Whack! You've been whacked with a wet trout. Don't take this too seriously. Someone just wants to let you know you did something silly. |
Robert McClenon ( talk) 21:13, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
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November 29, 2000 in accordance with the recommendations of the UN by former President Smirnov issued a decree № 591 "On the transliteration and place names", according to which the name of the TMR in the Latin alphabet was established as Pridnestrovskaia Moldavskaia Respublica (Pridnestrovie).
But despite the categorical decree signed by the President, ministries and departments of the Republic on their official websites the name of the republic in the Latin alphabet or the English translation was used, based on their own "fantasy."
Thus, until 2012 only seven official sites, namely the Supreme Council, the Foreign Ministry, the State Customs Committee, the Constitutional Court, the Court of Arbitration, the Bank "Gazprombank" and PWB there were 15 (!) Different spellings in English the name of our country.
For example, the site of SCC were listed three options: Transdniestrian Moldavian Republic, Transdniestria, Dniester Moldavian Republic. Ministry of Foreign Affairs' nafantaziroval "has 5 options: Transdniestrian Moldavian Republic, Transdniestria, Pridnestrovie, Pridnestpovien Moldavian Republic, Pridnestrovskaia Moldavskaia Respublica.
PRB, a financial representative of the TMR in the international arena, too, did not fail to distinguish themselves, invented the three names of the republic: Trans-Dniester Moldavian Republic (TMR), Pridnestrovskaya Moldavskaya Respublica (PMR), Moldova (Transdniestria). And after all that surprising - none of the names do not match what is defined in the decree of the president! The coloring of these sites were added illiterate contraction of the words "street" and "city", ie «ul» instead of «str», and «g» instead of «town» or «Sity".
Suppressing the existence of the above leapfrog with a translation of the title of the state, 06.04.2012 Mr. Smirnov was repealed Decree "On the place names and the transliteration of" not observed by 12 years, and in accordance with Art. 65 of the Constitution of TMR's new president signed a decree number 252, which recognized only the official name of the TMR in English - Pridnestpovian Moldavian Republic (Pridnestrovie).
Finally - after almost 22 yo - Transnistria took a step to the recognition - decided on his own name. The case for small - there were only learn to respect and abide by their own laws. [1] -- 217.19.208.101 ( talk) 22:37, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
Hi, Vercrumba. You obviously haven't caught up with the Kievan Rus' talk page yet. Before I make a slight amendment to your addition, I'd just like to run it by you to see whether you have any objections. I responded to your message on the talk page with,
"Fair enough. Wikipedia should cite variants on the nomenclature. It's unfortunate that it should be in the preamble/intro as it continues to perpetuate the lack of distinction between interpretations according to Western eras. I'd suggest that many readers would just read the intro to acquaint themselves with the subject at hand and not bother going into the details of the history, much less the evolution of the term 'Kievan Russia'. Would you object if I were to clarify by changing, "Kievan Rus', or Kievan Russia,..." to Kievan Rus' (previously referred to as Kievan Russia in earlier Western scholarship),..."?" I won't make any changes until I've received an answer from you. Cheers! --
Iryna Harpy (
talk)
00:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
To the note that came and went... my primary objection going back all the way was that at some point it was made out to be 50:50, Baltics say continuous, Russia says not, matter of whose politics you support. Not politics, but history. In (official) Russia, sadly, history still serves politics. VєсrumЬа ► TALK 23:38, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
Since I know your interest in communist-era sources usage on Wiki, perhaps you'd like to offer your input at Talk:Adam_Mickiewicz#Systematic_Bias. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:44, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
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Great American Wiknic NYC at Prospect Park |
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You are invited to the Great American Wiknic NYC in Brooklyn's green and lovely Prospect Park, on this Saturday June 22! We would love to see you there, so sign up and bring something fun for the potluck :) -- User:Pharos ( talk) |
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The question posed at the Elizabeth II RfC, at which you commented, has been amended [40] to clarify a potential misunderstanding. Please re-visit the question and your comment and amend if necessary. Thanks. DrKiernan ( talk) 17:03, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Runic-kokle.gif, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG ( talk) 19:14, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
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Hi there Vecrumba,
I noticed your comments on the talk page and hoped you would have time to give some independent guidance on this article. I find the content is completely controlled/dictated by one editor who probably has ulterior motives for being involved on the page. He accuses me of being a cult follower etc if I make any edits. Everything I have tried to do has been 100% reverted. The article makes accusations that the founder of the group had "intimate and immoral" behaviour with young women, a fairly serious allegation, but without any supporting reference. The only support comes later in the paragraph from a primary resource document that included affidavit material (i.e. all primary) for a Court case that was actually lost. The editor "Januarythe18th" seems to want to draw me into some sort of edit war by immediately reverting edits that I consider very reasonable (as per the example I just gave). I seldom revert his reverts, but in my opinion the article is a real discredit to Wikipedia. There are more examples than the one I have just given. There are 5 or 10 more concerns or issues. Probably the main one is Januarythe18th's connection to the "legal action" (actually it's just an arbitration) which is almost show cased in the article. When I got into this it was taken extremely personally - I presume because Januarythe18th is personally involved and is manifesting his disgruntlement through this Wiki page. I have also had a look at at lot of the page history and I can't help but appreciate how similar the style of this editor is to some of the past trouble editors. I could go on and on....if you could assist with an extra set of eyes so I'm allowed to edit the page that would be appreciated. I also feel this article needs to be tagged because things like unsupported accusations of sexual misconduct show a very serious editing bias and in my opinion, motives that are not in-line with building the world's most awesome and free resource. Probably cherry picking/conflict of interest are most appropriate. Regards Danh108 ( talk) 19:39, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
Alas, I accidentally failed to properly save my new lede in progress last night, might be a couple more before I post one for review. Don't waste your time defending yourself; on WP, protesting innocence is taken as the surest affirmation of guilt. VєсrumЬа ► TALK 22:01, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
It seems to me that an article about a religious movement should be about the movement: origins, beliefs, practices; about its members (e.g., demographics); about its formal organization; and evolution of all the preceding. Most sources on religion refer to the Brahma Kumari movement, not cult. If you agree that the article should be holistic, then you are being very reasonable. But, again, I have to caution you on the litmus test of leading off with "secretive" as the most important adjective, your "factual." And contrary to your contention, BK is specifically called a NRM in sources. So, it seems you're here advocating "cult" and adherents are here advocating "religion". At least those are the appearances.
On the other hand, I don't care what the BK followers "want". If I were a follower, however, I'd look at an article on the organizational aspect of their NRM which does not even mention origins or basic principles in the lede with suspicion at best. I believe the best approach is to create one cohesive article covering everything and then if there is enough material, spin off more detail.
And we can't start with "secretive" no matter how much you argue that is factual. They are "secretive" for historical reasons which I address in my lead but which are wholly absent from the current (your preferred) lead, which makes them seem less guarded and more just another set of we're going to rule the world after the apocalypse kooks. But at this point I'm in danger of repeating myself.
If you agree to a single article on Brahma Kumaris, then I think progress can be made and everyone at the opposite poles can be satisfied even if not happy; moreover, outsiders (that would be readers) can come away with a basic understanding of the movement's origins, beliefs, practices and lifestyle, through to current proselytizing.
I'm being more than reasonable, this isn't my first comparative religion (think of it as creating course materials on Brahma Kumaris) rodeo. I just normally limit my areas of WP contribution as I have plenty of my own projects outside WP. Does this explain my position better? VєсrumЬа ► TALK 04:44, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
Regards Danh108 ( talk) 22:24, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
@Dahn108, we haven't had a chance to discuss content, so I can't say whether we agree or not on what should be in an encyclopedic article, however, we do appear to be agreed that what is there now is not encyclopedic.
@Januarythe18th, first, we should continue on the article talk page, I'd rather not it appear that you or Dahn108 are looking to persuade me to any particular POV.
I don't see any point in arguing cult versus NRM, NRM is more prevalent. Whether or not you're using it pejoratively, why stigmatize when there are other words and your preference is not the majority scholarly use?
Since you believe there is more than enough material for one article, the proper structure is:
and not
The latter sets up a situation where there will be perennial enmity over the first and no one except adherents will care about the latter two, leading to conflict and lack of balance.
If you believe my proposed lead introduces "inaccuracies," discussing that would be far more helpful than arguing I'm uninformed and not up to speed. I did not just use cursory "Encyclopedia of..." sources in writing it. Nor did I describe BK as Hindu because it "appears" in some encyclopedia by that name. I should add that I studied Hinduism in comparative religion likely before you were born, so this will all go better if we discuss content and not my competence.
With respect to what "the BKs want", I would certainly resist any attempt to make the article into a sanctifying homage to their founder. However, that is not the problem--starting with the lead, on which proposed replacement, again, I'm still waiting for something more concrete other than it's wrong and I'm uninformed. If I'm not comprehending your objections, indulge me and take it a sentence at a time. There's no train leaving the station. Indeed, you don't believe there's any train that need depart for any destination.
Lastly, even if you really think BK has gone all wrong since a few hundred practiced in seclusion for their first decade and a half, that's a subject separate from origin and basic tenets. VєсrumЬа ► TALK 22:47, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
Hello Vecrumba, I'm contacting you because we need some Latvian translators to help with the deployment of the new VisualEditor on lv.wikipedia. There are help pages, user guides, and description pages that need translating, as well as the interface itself. The translating work is going on over on MediaWiki: Translation Central. I also need help with a personal message for the Latvian Wikipedians. If you are able to help in any way, either reply here, or head over to TranslationCentral. Thanks for your time, PEarley (WMF) ( talk) 18:18, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
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Just a quick aside Peter.
You suggested I did not respond to your proposal. I thought I did from the point of an overview of both the topic and the context of what was going on and felt it was and is completely ignored.
As evidence of good faith, I've left a lengthy, specific and well referenced response to your suggestion of revising the BKs as Hindu. If you demand, I can go through every word in detail but that seems an unfair burden when really you need to read up on the references first to gain that overview. You were introducing inaccuracies even unaware that they are inaccuracies. For example, regarding "secrecy" - putting aside Prof Beit-Hallahmi's contention regarding the End of the World predictions - which other religion do you know, especially an evangelistic religion, that does not publish it's primary scripture and does not even allow adherents to take copies out of their centers? It's encyclopedic because it is highly accurate and identifying of them.
If you are finding it finding the original references, rather than spend time trawling the internet just ask me which ones you need.
I'd recommend
Of others you have to be a little cautious, e.g. Ramsay works for the organization's public relations front at a high level but is slowly having to come to face reality as reality spill beyond their media control. Long term supporters Whaling and Hodgkinson both rehash the factually incorrect hagiographic version of the religion that the religion puts out itself, as do others (Hodgkinson was married to the chief PR advisor in the West). That's not to say there are not aspects of their work which is not correct. Largely they are in non-controversial areas. However, all of the facts contained within the topic at present are inarguable and correct, which is why the BK adherents are not arguing against them. Most of the minor sources summarise 3 or 4th hand views taken from the above.
My other contention, which is being ignored, is that the Wikipedia should represent a world view. The Brahma Kumaris are a largely Indian religion, 99% +. How they operate in the West, the audience they target and how they market themselves, is very different from India (which is what references say).
What we have going on here are mainly Western BKs attempting to wrestle control of the topic to harmonize it with the marketing of BKism in the West. That is not right from a Wikipedian point of view and that is why they refuse to develop their version in a sandbox which, as new editors, they really should do. What they are demanding is not "collaboration" but submission to that narrow view.
I hope this helps and you can see that it is an informed view rather than a partisan one.
The article is perfectly good enough and does not need more work never mind wasting time and energy in disputes. It stands beside any comparable topic and being well referenced does matter. As a return of good faith, would you be willing to discuss the context for the current editing dispute? -- Januarythe18th ( talk) 09:43, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
Please join
Wikipedia Takes Brooklyn scavenger hunt on September 7, 2013! Everyone gather at the Brooklyn Public Library to further Wikipedia's coverage of— photos and articles related to Brooklyn, its neighborhoods and the local landmarks. -- EdwardsBot ( talk) |
Hi Vecrumba, If you were still prepared to send any good money after the bad, that donation would probably save the page from collapsing into a warzone.
Having said that, I really understand if you're not that tempted....the train that was just about to leave the station got derailed by some socks, and you will more than likely get some degree of personal attack etc....so it's not a great offer. However, the page craves someone with established neutrality. If you wanted an NRM rodeo, this one is already bucking and champing at the bit. Admin have locked the tags on, so at least some content focus will but an end in sight. Best Danh108 ( talk) 04:02, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
Greetings from WikiProject Military history! As a member of the project, you are invited to take part in our annual project coordinator election, which will determine our coordinators for the next twelve months. If you wish to cast a vote, please do so on the election page by 23:59 (UTC) on 28 September! Kirill [talk] 16:56, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
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Volume 1, Issue 1, October 2013
by The Interior ( talk · contribs), Ocaasi ( talk · contribs)
Greetings Wikipedia Library members! Welcome to the inaugural edition of Books and Bytes, TWL’s monthly newsletter. We're sending you the first edition of this opt-in newsletter, because you signed up, or applied for a free research account: HighBeam, Credo, Questia, JSTOR, or Cochrane. To receive future updates of Books and Bytes, please add your name to the subscriber's list. There's lots of news this month for the Wikipedia Library, including new accounts, upcoming events, and new ways to get involved...
New positions: Sign up to be a Wikipedia Visiting Scholar, or a Volunteer Wikipedia Librarian
Wikipedia Loves Libraries: Off to a roaring start this fall in the United States: 29 events are planned or have been hosted.
New subscription donations: Cochrane round 2; HighBeam round 8; Questia round 4... Can we partner with NY Times and Lexis-Nexis??
New ideas: OCLC innovations in the works; VisualEditor Reference Dialog Workshop; a photo contest idea emerges
News from the library world: Wikipedian joins the National Archives full time; the Getty Museum releases 4,500 images; CERN goes CC-BY
Announcing WikiProject Open: WikiProject Open kicked off in October, with several brainstorming and co-working sessions
New ways to get involved: Visiting scholar requirements; subject guides; room for library expansion and exploration
Thanks for reading! All future newsletters will be opt-in only. Have an item for the next issue? Leave a note for the editor on the Suggestions page. -- The Interior 20:35, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
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![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
I noticed you said you pay for Jstor articles. I have access to Jstor and could help with research if you need it. MBisanz talk 21:16, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Well, it is a quote I am bound to like personally. It sounds pretty much like anthropological orthodoxy, not just fifty years ago but, if anything, moreso today. Who actually said it? Who is Tumin? Is the source relevant for the article? Slrubenstein | Talk 15:12, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Well, in his day, Sherry Washburn was one of the world's leading physical anthropologists (up there with Lewis Leakey) but his specializaton I think was primatology, not genetics. But definitely a leading scholar, he pretty much headed the Berkeley anthropology department at the time. Slrubenstein | Talk 15:26, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Well, that certainly does sound relevant. Also, perhaps for the article on race. I have argued there that in academe, the discipline (viewed as a natural science and not just as a social science) that specializes in human beings is anthropology, so the Race article should privilege the views of anthropologists. I still believe this, but somewhere in the top half or top third - where the history of the idea is presented, and different views (taxonomic, essentialist, lineage etc.) are summarized, it might also be useful to summarize Tumin since he is explicitly seeking to represent diverse sciences - obviously in this regard the differences among them are as important as the similarities (not because one discipline is better than another, but because - I presume) the differences reveal something about each discipline. Do you have confidence in the method by which Tumin selected his sources? I know in 1963 Washburn was among the tops in anthropology, are the other scholars equally notable in their fields? Were they being asked to give their own opinion, or speak for their discipline? Slrubenstein | Talk 16:15, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
A tidbit on significance, some part of this is reprinted in Hubert Humphrey's "School Desegregation: Documents and Commentaries." Neither this or Humphrey's is available online.
PЄTЄRS J VЄСRUМВА ►
TALK
20:34, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Vecrumba,
I was wondering whether you’d be interested in helping try to improve the neutrality of the article about Rushton’s book Race, Evolution, and Behavior. There’s a discussion on the article talk page where I think your input might be valuable, and your contributions might also be helpful in the article itself. I’m currently waiting for a book to arrive that I’ve mail-ordered to use as a source there, but once it does I’m intending to work on this article some more also. -- Captain Occam ( talk) 20:26, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
I see no useful purpose in further participation, and as I'm not a named party I've unwatched all the associated pages. Editors are welcome to contact me here with any questions.
PЄTЄRS J VЄСRUМВА ►
TALK
21:32, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
I have a history with Mikemikev and am in no way neutral. But I was hoping you could build a bridge between him and myself and others - you and disagree a good deal but you strike me as principled and fair. So I am disappointed to see the trouble you are having with Mikemikev. Do you feel you could take it upon yourself to try to mentor him? I fear if no one does, it will just lead to an RfC or something. Slrubenstein | Talk
Just saw the banner up top. My condolences. Slrubenstein | Talk 23:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
III think you will see one major difference between Mikemikev and Matchsci if you just go to User Contributions and look at their earliest contributions - I often find this a good way to get a sample that says something about their POV and editing interests ... to put a contemporary edit conflict into a larger context. Slrubenstein | Talk 13:29, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Just a note concerning Mikemikev: he seem to be somewhat successful at getting you to lose your temper. Please don't play his game. Even though we do disagree on many things, you do strike me as a fair editor and your edits strike me as logical and appropriate under most circumstances. At this point, I am more or less forced to believe Mikemikev is strictly trolling to get as many editors as possible to lash out at him (my guess is just so as to sidetrack any possible collaboration on the R&I articles). I'd hate to see you blocked because he made you lose your calm.-- Ramdrake ( talk) 16:22, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
you said:there's only been fairly crude wiring to the brain's vision center, so what that technology call? I just want to know. 75.73.152.238 ( talk) 11:40, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Moscow, like Florence, has a conventional name field; I have clarified accordingly. What we don't want, I think, is for people to people to jump up and down insisting on the Approved name field, which would be Moskva; if BGN always had a conventional name field, it would be a useful standard, but most of the time it doesn't. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:03, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for your helpful comments in the arbitration enforcement thread.
That said, I was wondering if you had any advice for me about where to go from here. I trust your opinion and respect your involvement in these articles a lot, and I'm still a novice here with a lot to learn. One of the clearest messages I got from the arb enforcement thread was that when I see something that I think should be reverted, I should just revert it myself rather than expecting someone else to do it. Do you think that's acceptable for me to do at this point? I definitely don't want to step on anyone's toes, but I care a lot about beginning to contribute to these articles in productive ways.
I also have some other ideas of things I can do that I doubt anyone would have a problem with, like adding some references to the section on mental chronometry. If you have any other suggestions about things I can be doing to help out, I'd be interested to know.
I'm a little concerned that I'm going to end up inadvertently acting in a way people associate with Occam, even if it's for a completely different reason, like happened recently with my comments on Victor Chmara's page. If you notice me doing something like this, would you mind pointing it out to me? I'd hate to repeat a mistake like this completely accidentally.
I'm aware that I'm going to be heavily scrutinized for a while here, and I'll probably be having to walk on eggshells for a bit. Any advice on how to keep in line while still contributing to these articles would be appreciated a lot. - Ferahgo the Assassin ( talk) 07:13, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
@Ferahgo. "when I see something that I think should be reverted, I should just revert it myself rather than expecting someone else to do it". That's exactly how I have earned my topic ban. But you are on the right track. Edit something different, and no one will accuse you of "meatpuppetry".
Biophys (
talk)
22:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
I am very sorry, but I have removed a section in your latest edit, as it violates your topic ban. As to my stated "voluntary topic ban", I have avoided all edits in articles that might be of interest to Digwuren or his Wikipedia supporters. The article you brought up has never been part of this dispute – neither I or my opponents in the DIGWUREN disputes have ever edited the article before, at least to my knowledge. -- Petri Krohn ( talk) 04:22, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
P.S. – As to "saving your butt" I and others believe that you commenting in a case about Russavia was a violation of your interaction ban. I believe, that if the case had ever resulted in blocks or other sanctions, you would have been among those sanctioned. As to my BOLDness, If you or anyone else involved had somehow indicated dissatisfaction at my decision I would have reverted and offered my apology. You did not. However, accusing me of improper action as you did here by innuendo is most unwelcome. -- Petri Krohn ( talk) 04:32, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
P.P.S. – I have also removed your attempted WP:OUTING. Thanks for the link anyway, it was quite interesting, to say the least. -- Petri Krohn ( talk) 04:44, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
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Please note that there's a new discussion at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/2010 ArbCom election voting procedure in which you may wish to comment. It is expected to close in about a week. You have received this message because you participated in a similar discussion (2009 AC2 RfC) last year. Roger talk 05:48, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Your comment on this edit - the most recent of a little revert war - might be very constructive. Slrubenstein | Talk 17:04, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
[1]. Offliner ( talk) 15:24, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
Perhaps you do not know (that's a secret), but most graduates from the Moscow State University in humanities area have a second military specialization officially entitled "military disinformation". That includes art of creating conflicts and other useful techniques, something that comes from Sun Tsu and Divide and rule. My military specialization was only epidemiology... Biophys ( talk) 21:00, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
[2] Volunteer Marek ( talk) 14:51, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
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Hello Vecrumba. Please see the closure of WP:AE#Vecrumba. This enforcement request has been closed by enacting sanction #1 (restricting comments on issues where you are not named, expiring December 22) and #3 (interaction ban with Petri Krohn, indefinite). There will be no change to the current expiry of your topic ban from Eastern Europe, which will be December 22. Though you may resume editing and commenting on Eastern European topics after 22 December, please try to ensure that you follow all Wikipedia policies. Thanks, EdJohnston ( talk) 00:14, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
User:Vecrumba/SovietJewishLatvia, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Vecrumba/SovietJewishLatvia and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of User:Vecrumba/SovietJewishLatvia during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Uzma Gamal ( talk) 00:01, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
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For offering advice to the student. Would you be interested in helping students on a more regular basis? -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 15:09, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
Hello Pēteris and welcome back editing articles on Latvia. I want to ask whether you would like to apply a more poetic translation to the content of the articles Rīga dimd and Div’ dūjiņas gaisā skrēja? Talk/ ♥фĩłдωəß♥\ Work 18:29, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
I have taken a shot at the article with my improvements. Feel free to comment or make chnages. Talk/ ♥фĩłдωəß♥\ Work 21:09, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
On "Felled in war — never died" perhaps "Felled in war — never dying"?
PЄTЄRS J VЄСRUМВА ►
TALK
21:37, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
I have a small issue with the translation of stanza 7 line 1: "The soul they thus came upon". I cannot comment on the original Latvian text, as my knowledge of the language is rudimentary. However, the current translation is very awkward and unnatural, as well not particularly poetic. I tried a more natural wording, but was reverted with this explanation: rv- this verse is continuing the previous, hence "thus". Personally, I do not think that "thus" is critical for continuance here; the fact that this verse follows the previous one is enough for such purposes. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen ( talk) 22:18, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
Hello,
I noticed that you are a fellow active member of WikiProject Moldova. Some time ago I created a new userbox for the project and proposed that it become official. Since no responses have been made as of yet, I am hoping to spark a discussion at Template talk:WikiProject Moldova User on the matter.
Mulțumesc,
Lothar von Richthofen ( talk) 16:55, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
I respect you a lot. But Tom Holzl is just a troll using the web to self-publish his own views. Please, just do not feed him. Slrubenstein | Talk 22:43, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
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-- Codrin.B ( talk) 23:11, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
There has recently been some discussion about the article's structure and I have taken the occasion to reread it and I think it has three major problems - I have raised this on the talk page but hope you don't mind my contacting you individually. I do not want to make any unilateral change to the article but if you agree with anything I say, maybe you could help. First, there is a section that sumarizes a[pproaches to race (essentialist, taxonomic, etc.) and I think we need to do a beter job of organizing the material in the first half of the article to follow this summary - it is aluable because it provides reasonable limits for what views we include, and also provides a logic for organizing different views.
Second, the opening section on historical views does not provide historical views. And this is really important, because we need to establish HOW the concept of "race" emerged, that the concept has a history, and moreover, that early views of race provide a good example of what we later call "essentialist." I posted a proposed addition on the talk page - if you like it perhaps you can add it, making whatever edits you see fit?
Finally, the article was once structured so that after discussing essentialist, taxonomic, and lineage views of race, each section ending with a critique, the article then explained how population and clines were the key concepts used today to understand genetic variation - all neat and well-organized, But over the past year or two there has been these stupid tit-for-tat process where some editors, anytime they find a sentence proposing that scientists reject race, then add sentences on how some still use it ... and worse, others, seeing any suggestion that someone believes in biological races, then adds a few sentences on how this is despite most scientists rejecting it. Too much of the article reads like a running debate. For example the section on historical views, instead of beginning with what people thought in the 19th or 18th centuries, begins with the social construction argument. Why? It is not a question of right or wrong, or majority versus fringe view, it is just a matter of clear organization. To the extent that there should be any debate at all, it should be in ONE place only, not in every section. Do you see the problem I see? If so can you help with a clean-up?
Thanks, Slrubenstein | Talk 16:28, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
If you wish, please provide input. Thanks and best regards. Codrin.B ( talk) 21:21, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
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You know, I've given it a lot of though over the past year or so and yes, I do think that the possibility that it was someone from the list, releasing the info out of a personal agenda, who then had no qualms about lying about it, was responsible. Volunteer Marek 05:34, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
Something here went wrong (see bottom). Also, the thread was just closed (see top)... -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 17:57, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
Hi, Vecrumba! I noted your revert of Soviet Russia back to "Boslhevist Russia", which you explained as
faith edit, Bolshevist Russia applies 1917 to 1922
Recognizing the WP:GOODFAITH which you set as the main motive of your revert, I must however draw you attention to some another standpoints of Wikipedia, such as WP:POV and WP:NPOV which seem to be not less significant in this case.
There's no need to remine that the term " Soviet Russia" which I insist upon is a derivative from the full official name of the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic. Since 1917 it has been mostly used in the unbiased, local sources through the world, from primary (telegraph agencies, diplomacy) to the most reliable secondary (scientific publications based upon abovementioned sources and archive documents etc.)
As for the "Bolshevist Russia", stemming from emigrant editions, its propagandistic scent becomes clear if we put it on a par with "Tory Britain", "Maoist China" etc. where the name of a party or a leader is used as a hyperbolizing, protrusing manipulation known as unjustified generalization.
No doubt, phrase "Bolshevist Russia" occurs frequently, however in Wikipedia one must weight this frequency against encyclopedical style. One must differ between neutral science on one, and opinion and advocacy journalism on another hand. Since encyclopedias speak about "Soviet Russia", there's no need to enforce "Bolshevist" instead. Of course, if the theme of the article requires a reminder of the hard-to-read name of the political party at power (for example, is specific event is directly related to a known decision of this patry) — it's enough to mention it once.
I also have to challenge your conclusion about the time bounds (1917 to 1922) for the "Bolshevist Russia". Not only Sergei Melgunov, but the entire scope of the emigrant Russian press insistently repeated it after 1922, i.e. when the USSR was already created. This serves a separate evidence of an estimate of this construction as a "local bias".
Respectfully, Cherurbino ( talk) 10:08, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
P.S. Hoping to find understanding between us in this minor discrepancy, and looking forward to further cooperation between us in en-wiki, I want to draw you attention to this large article of mine which I created last year in ru-wiki
Highly appreciating your
I hope you may find my materials to be useful for you as well. As you see, I haven't yet created Baltic Jews in parallel with ru:Евреи в Прибалтике :))) Cherurbino ( talk) 10:08, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
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I find myself slightly bemused by your comments on this proposed content inclusion. ~Were on earth out of the proposed content did you get "communist terrorism" is nothing but Nazi propaganda? Given this is actually what has happened? Look again at the sources, and think of the usage of the term at that period. Tentontunic ( talk) 23:22, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
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Hey Peters, when I check google ngram I get that all three names register and in fact it was only recently (post 1991) that "Vilnius" overtook "Vilna" in sources [4]. "Vilnius" did not over take "Wilno" until around 1970 [5]. "Wilno" still shows up though out of the three it is now the least frequently used one. Volunteer Marek ( talk) 21:20, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
I would just let you know that under "some users working in this area" I didn't mean you. In my opinion, your vision of some aspects of history is deeply distorted, however, I have seen no manifestation of dishonesty or bad faith from your side. I never accused you in bad faith, and I hope I'll never have reasons for that.-- Paul Siebert ( talk) 18:46, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
Is as usual being overrun with pointless blather. Would you like to set up a subpage to discuss sources? Tentontunic ( talk) 16:07, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
# | Source | Abstract | Time Period Covered | CT Links |
---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Terror: From Tyrannicide to Terrorism, Brett Bowden, Michael T. Davis editors, University of Queensland Press, 2008, ISBN-13 978-0702235993 | Collection of essays by experts | Lead essay is "throughout the ages", comprehensive view | Revolutionary terrorist groups include Marxist-Leninist GRAPO, French Direct Action, Belgium's Fighting Communist Cells, Portuguese FP-25 (Popular Forces of April 25)... active late 1970's/mid 1980's; briefly forged an alliance of "fighting communist organizations" with the RAF (German Red Army Faction), pp 255-256 next, same source |
2 | Daniel Heradstveit, Helge Hveem. Oil in the Gulf: obstacles to democracy and development. 2004. Ashgate. ISBN 978-0754639688 | source2 | source2 | The Anti-Imperialist Armed Front was an alliance of three FCO. Actione Direct (AD) of France the Red Army Faction (RAF) of Germany and the Communist Combatant Cells (CCC) from Belgium. This group carried out bombing attacks on NATO pipelines in 1984 to 1985. The RAF carried out six attacks on pipelines in Germany. The CCC targeted six pumping stations on the 3700mile long pipeline which spanned Belgium, the Netherlands, France, Luxembourg and Germany. The attacks resulted in the pipeline being shut down for a 48hr period. There were no armed attacks on personnel from this group and this is believed to be due to the CCC having an aversion to excessive violence. The AD bombed the corporate offices of the Elf Aquitaine oil company in Paris. pp120 |
3 | source | abstract | covers time period | material and page #'s
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3 | source | abstract | covers time period | material and page #'s
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4 | source | abstract | covers time period | material and page #'s
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5 | source | abstract | covers time period | material and page #'s
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I suggest you to take into account that current scholarly consensus (expressed by such an anti-Communist scholar as Robert Conquest) is that, whereas the Getty's figures do not reflect the total number of the victims of Stalinist repressions, they correctly reflect the GULAG population. All needed information is in the article and in the talk page archive. I doubt it is possible to question the publication in The American Historical Review; it is equally impossible that Conquest's may have any pro-Soviet bias. Therefore, all your additions reflect just a history of the issue, and should be treated as such. Please, bring the text you add into the accordance with what reliable sources say. Please, keep also in mind that English sources are preferable in English Wikipedia.-- Paul Siebert ( talk) 20:06, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
I've read the Conquest-Wheatcroft dialogs et al. IMHO you appear eager to pass judgement on sources based on your believing others are eager to do so as well. What I said regarding Volkogonov was simply that he was worth reading. Nor did I postulate that because archives are biased that all hypotheses [based on the archives] are equally probable (or improbable). What I stated was that archives are politicized, meaning they contain both records (of varying accuracy) as well as politicized history; and that anyone who merely quotes the archives—and there are many who do (finally the archives are open and we shall know the "truth")—is perpetuating that politicization. ("History serves politics.") There is no agenda behind what I say; take what I say at face value, not at what you infer.
PЄTЄRS J V ►
TALK
03:41, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
Re "No one knows any real numbers, and the estimates are very different." What do we have in actuality?
In connection to that, how should we present all these facts in Wikipedia? I cannot participate in long discussion, because my access to Internet is limited now. I replied only on what caught my eye, I'll respond in details later.-- Paul Siebert ( talk) 01:15, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
I will only observe somewhat bemusedly how Conquest has been rabidly attacked when inconvenient and put up on a pedestal when convenient. Our mission is to question sources, to represent sources. Unfortunately, there is virtually no discussion on WP on what sources actually say, just arguing over who or what is, or isn't, the "latest" or "obsolete"—that's a particular favorite used to suppress content. The letter and spirit of WP policy is that the validity of publications should be questioned, that they be represented in the light of the best scholarly critical thinking, otherwise WP would be full of propaganda from all sides on all topics of contention. Really, I do tire of endless contentions that the letter and spirit of WP policy are being violated whenever one wishes to dig into what a source contends. Unfortunately, one of the core issues WP faces today—and which drives potential contributors away—is that all too often editors enamored of their POV (whether rightly or wrongly is irrelevant) consider "question" and "dispute" as one and the same, obviating (from their perspective) the need for critical discussion. It's a sad commentary that some of my best discourse on a topic has been with confirmed paid propaganda pushers who, owing to their job description, felt compelled to persuade myself and others of their reasoning.
PЄTЄRS J V ►
TALK
14:22, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
What do you know about the use of Supreme Soviet vs. Supreme Council? I reverted the IP on Transnistria and Politics of Transnistria because "Supreme Council" is the name used by the official website, but running a google search Supreme Soviet is quite common as well. Is there a history behind this? I'm personally leaning towards calling it the Supreme Council, per their official English Translation. Chipmunkdavis ( talk) 16:53, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the kind words, nice to hear from you. Tymek ( talk) 05:25, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
Re: It could even be someone attempting to get Tentontunic blocked through the suspicious appearance of anon IPs reverting to ostensibly avoid 3RR.
Even if you're paranoid, that doesn't mean they're not out there to get you
— Colin Sauter
That defense of edit warriors by you is dejavu all over again. ( Igny ( talk) 22:44, 19 April 2011 (UTC))
Yes, I agree with your opinion (also nicely formulated by Bukovsky) that a middle ground between very big lie and truth is ...lie. But there is little you can do about it. In a long run, all our talks here belong to garbage, and only content counts. If you enjoyed talking or wanted to explain something to others, that would be fine, but many of your current discussions are clearly unproductive. None of your "opponents" is interested in Latvian culture and history. If you switch to editing other subjects, they will probably leave you alone. This is merely a practical consideration. Why waste your nerves and time? Hodja Nasreddin ( talk) 20:20, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
WikiProject Poland Newsletter • April 2011
For our freedom and yours Welcome to our first issue of WikiProject Poland newsletter, the Monitor (named after the first Polish newspaper). Our Project has been operational since 1 June, 2005, and also serves as the Poland-related Wikipedia notice board. I highly recommend watchlisting the Wikipedia:WikiProject Poland page, so you can be aware of the ongoing discussions. We hope you will join us in them, if you haven't done so already! Unlike many other WikiProjects, we are quite active; in this year alone about 40 threads have been started on our discussion page, and we do a pretty good job at answering all issues raised. In addition to a lively encyclopedic, Poland-related, English-language discussion forum, we have numerous useful tools that can be of use to you - and that you could help us maintain and develop:
This is not all; on our page you can find a list of useful templates (including userboxes), awards and other tools! With all that said, how about you join our discussions at WT:POLAND? Surely, there must be something you could help others with, or perhaps you are in need of assistance yourself? You have received this newsletter because you are listed as a [member link] at WikiProject Poland. • Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 21:11, 25 April 2011 (UTC) |
Delivered by EdwardsBot ( talk) 21:22, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
Do you like something like this? Hodja Nasreddin ( talk) 05:12, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
Sveiks, I'd advise you not to feed the troll by reverting him any more, as that's what this creature is actually up to. His categorizations usually do more harm than good, in my opinion contributing to general overcategorization we have here, making it difficult to reach the useful information. I've just reported him, so I hope it won't take long before he'll be shown to the door. Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 17:15, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
Enforcement by indefinite ban of User:Vecrumba is declined. User:The Four Deuces is banned indefinitely from editing articles which relate to minority peoples of the Soviet Union due to repeated violations of the warning in Section 8 of the decision Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Vecrumba. Appeal is to the Arbitration Committee. User:Fred Bauder Talk 00:08, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
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I agree with you that fringe views and conspiracy theories have no place in Wikipedia. This goes for both the area you are the most interested in (the Baltics) as well as for my field of interest (Russia), and all other articles too. I think the worst thing is when people insert material based on conspiracy theory or fringe books (these are usually written by attention-seeking journalists, political agitators and lobbyists). Academic sources almost never take these theories seriously, or even mention them. Yet some people keep inserting them to Wikipedia, because these editors have agendas. I think we should all work together to stop these people using Wikipedia as a tool for promoting their lies and fringe views. Nanobear ( talk) 11:11, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
Hello Pēteris, Stumbled over an user essay with a very sharp perspective. Talk/ ♥фĩłдωəß♥\ Work 20:09, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
I agree with you, Igny's use of "liberation" is intended mostly as a taunt. However, by seizing on it as you did at the talkpage of the 1944 re-occupation article, you have played into his hands. He's just throwing "liberation" in as a red herring to distract those who are trying to get the title back to the correct version. He knows that "liberation" has a snowball's chance in hell of being the title; he's just hoping to create tangential arguments. His behaviour is reprehensible at best, and his recent page-move seems an awful lot like gaming the system to me. Regardless, try not to blow up at him over such things. It will only create more problems and leave you open for potential repercussions. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen ( talk) 16:51, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
Above you said "note that the author there, who heavily promotes his book based on reputable sources and folks indicating his scholarship is good, does not merit a Wiki article." I was wondering, which author are you referring to? Also, don't you think the Looveer article should be nominated to AfD? Wouldn't that be a nice way of ending the disputes surrounding this little-known article? Nanobear ( talk) 14:10, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
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Come here, we'll solve it. -- 95.55.230.99 ( talk) 10:25, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
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I would appreciate if you stopped your continued personal attacks against me. Thanks. Nanobear ( talk) 16:36, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
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Hi, you recently added a reference to this article but did not supply a page number, would you be so kind as to do so? Thank you. The Last Angry Man ( talk) 09:42, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
Since you have been interested in similar affairs, I was wondering, what is your opinion of Journal of Cosmology? The Journal probably isn't a reliable source, but the article, as it is, resembles an attack page (almost 100% of it is criticism). Do you think this is encyclopedic enough? Even the article of an evil person such as Osama bin Laden consists mostly of "neutral" description, not 100% of criticism. Nanobear ( talk) 18:34, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, when I was originally posting (before editing out for off-topicness), I had meant to imply that the concept of Estonians swallowing Nazi propaganda was doubtful at best, especially considering the Estonians' animosity for Nazi Germany. -- Yalens ( talk) 20:13, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
Hello! You have been invited to take part in the Bacon Challenge 2012. In case you don't know or need a refresher, the Bacon Challenge is an annual celebration of bacon on Wikipedia in which editors come together to help create, expand, and improve Wikipedia's coverage of bacon. The event lasts all the way through National Pig Day 2012, giving participants plenty of time to work at their pleasure. In addition to the Bacon Challenge is the Bacon WikiCup 2012, a side event to the Challenge in which all bacon-related contributions done by those participating in the Challenge are submitted and scored by the scorekeeper (me) based on the scoring chart. At the end of the Challenge, the user with the most points in the Bacon WikiCup will win a shiny trophy for their userpage. In addition, the users who score the highest in specific categories (not yet finalized, but the categories include most image uploads, most article creations, most DYK submissions, and more) will win barnstars. Finally, all participants will receive a medal. While the awards are nice, in the end, the important thing is to have fun and enjoy what we're all here for, which is improving Wikipedia.
If you decide to participate, great! You may add your name to the participants list at the main page of the Bacon Challenge 2012, and pick up the userbox for your userpage if you desire. Signing up for the Challenge will also automatically enter you into the Bacon WikiCup. If you don't wish to participate, that's fine too - maybe next year! In the meantime, if you know anyone who might also be interested in participating, feel free to invite them! The Challenge is open to anyone and accepts participants at any time, so feel free to let anyone who might be interested know.
Note that I, the scorekeeper of the Bacon WikiCup, will be on vacation starting on the 18th of June all the way up until the 5th of July. I will have limited access to the internet, so I may or may not be able to score users' contributions during this time. Sorry for any delay in scoring (but since the Challenge lasts for more than half a year, there's no rush, right? (= ).
I'm looking forward to another fun, successful year. Thanks! ~ Super Hamster Talk Contribs 00:47, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
This message is being sent to inform you of a Wikipedia picnic that is being held in your area next Saturday, June 25. From 1 to 8 PM or any time in between, join your fellow volunteers for a get together at Norman's Landscape ( directions) in Manhattan's Central Park.
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To subscribe to future events, follow the mailing list or add your username to the invitation list. BrownBot ( talk) 19:26, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
I just spotted your message, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. Quite a few of my links are busted up right now, drop me a line if you need any of the documents concerned and I'd be happy to email them to you. MutantPop@aol.com Carrite ( talk) 19:35, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
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I made a couple of comments at Gulag talk page, but this is not really a big deal. It might be a good idea to actually contribute to content of articles on the subject rather than be involved in discussions, but unfortunately I do not have time for that right now. Good luck! Biophys ( talk) 14:23, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
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FYI Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Vecrumba -- Russavia Let's dialogue 13:47, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification#Request_for_clarification:_WP:DIGWUREN. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 21:04, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
FYI: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Vecrumba_2. Nanobear ( talk) 02:57, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
Hello Pēteris. I am working on filling in some blanks to make the article, The Case for Latvia, meet the notability criterias for books. Perhaps you are familiar with the magazine Jaunā Gaita? Would you say that the article 2 Zinātņu doktori par rislaki veikumi meets the first criteria of notability of books? Talk/ ♥фĩłдωəß♥\ Work 16:47, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
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Dear Vecrumba,
I consider a possibility to file the AE request as explained on the MCuCR talk page
[10]. However, since the sanctions are not my primary goals, I would like to discuss this draft with you first. I hope it would be useful to look at the issue again. That may help to avoid some negative consequences and to save the arbitrators' time.
Regards.--
Paul Siebert (
talk)
01:29, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Peters, I would appreciate if you looked and answered on my last post I made
here. This thread was initiated by you, and although I initially replied in somewhat aggressive manner (for what I apologise), upon meditation, I came to understanding that the question you raised deserves more serious attention. I would like to continue this discussion.
It would be also good if you looked at my last post
here, where, as I believe, I was able to explain my viewpoint more clearly. You are not obliged to comment, however, I would like you to at least read it.
I also started to feel that the new attempt to come to consensus is likely to fail. If that will occur, I'll probably restore the version that had been modified with violations of the editing restrictions, and, if some of the users listed in the AE draft will revert it back, I'll file this AE request. Frankly speaking, I do agree that the addition you made to the footnote is in the gray zone, so they may be considered as minor or major edit depending on the context. I think, these figures (along with others) belong to the article, and should be moved to the appropriate section (which has to be created). I believe, we two, as the users belonging to two opposing camps, may persuade others to add this section. In connection to that, I don't think you will have any reason to re-revert my prospective revert of the edits disputable that are the subject of the last dispute, and I, accordingly, will not have to list you in the AE request (although I still hope I'll be able to avoid doing that).
Regards.--
Paul Siebert (
talk)
21:20, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
@Paul, you vastly overstate my skills in Russian, I did know my grammar was incorrect but I was in a rush so I just put it together without figuring out proper declension. As I have no desire to offend, I have stricken mine above and provided the English. Moreover, I will at least attempt to remember to use "Ja, ja, ja" not "Да, да, да" in the future when rhetorically expressing my disagreement with the nationalist-patriots. (Feel free to save a diff and remind me if I forget.)
Our discourse here rather points to our differing perspectives. Working backwards:
And so, to underscore that my use of Cyrillic is not derogatory, and reflecting that self-described "anti-nationalists" (not you) define their position as being diametrically opposed to mine, I sign myself, respectfully, Националист-патриот ► TALK 20:40, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
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Dear Vecrumba: Hello. This is just to let you know that you've been mentioned in the following request at the Mediation Cabal, which is a Wikipedia dispute resolution initiative that resolves disputes by informal mediation.
The request can be found at Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/02 October 2011/Holodomor.
Just so you know, it is entirely your choice whether or not you participate. If you wish to do so, and we'll see what we can do about getting this sorted out. At MedCab we aim to help all involved parties reach a solution and hope you will join in this effort.
If you have any questions relating to this or any other issue needing mediation, you can ask on the case talk page, the MedCab talk page, or you can ask the mediator, Steven Zhang, at their talk page.
By any chance do you or any editor you know have access to this [12] I should like to know what it has to say regarding communist terrorism, Thanks. The Last Angry Man ( talk) 19:04, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
Although I am now going to be unjustly blocked again for sockpuppetry I would appreciate if you would still send me the article we spoke of, it would be a useful reference source for the book I am currently writing. Thank you. The Last Angry Man ( talk) 12:16, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Hello Vercrumba: I saw your question on the Collaboration With Axis Powers talk page about scholarly sources talking about levels of collaboration. I don't think it qualifies as "scholarly" (even if it's published by the Praeger University Series), but historian Hugh Seton-Watson wrote "The East European Revolution." At the beginning of Chapter Six (pages 106-107), he lists five levels of collaboration. I can type them up if you can't get ahold of a copy. In any case, I would guess his other work might be somewhere to look for a definition that suits your needs. Best, IWTH ( talk) 20:24, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
I saw your comments in mediation. I think main point of contention there is the deliberate nature of the famine. One should not really answer "yes" or "no", but simply give some "arguments", pro and contra, as provided by good historians. Not sure if you read the book "Harvest of Sorrow" by Conquest (see pages 326-329). The deliberate nature of the famine was supported by the following arguments. (1) when Stalin started the excessive requisitions of grain in 1932, he already knew that similar policies resulted in the famine of 1918-1921. (2) the Russian-Ukrainian border was blockaded to prevent entry of grain to the Ukraine; orders were given and enforced to prevent food, legally obtained being brought to Ukraine from Russia (3) When starvation and death began and that became known to Stalin, the requisitions of grain still continued, (4) bread rations were established in cities, but not in villages; (5) grain was available in stores in the famine area, but not released to peasants; (6) the destruction of Ukrainian cultural life and religion and the slaughter of their intelligentsia was conducted simultaneously with the famine; (7) Stalin considered peasantry as the bulwark of nationalism. Hence the ultimate solution of peasantry "problem" was the way of dealing with Ukrainian nationalism problem. Biophys ( talk) 02:41, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
P.S. Perhaps you do not realized it, but when I was sanctioned (R-B case), that was done by dispatching several SPAs who behaved deliberately ridiculous: claimed me to be a terrorist supporter, promised to meet me in Moscow, and made ridiculous edits in articles and reverted me when I tried to fix them. I do not think some of the guys even believed in something they said at talk pages. In a normal situation, some of them would be quickly blocked as disruption only accounts, but in the present situation one of them (with nickname of an automatic weapon) was not sanctioned even during the arbitration. The only way of dealing with them in present situation is not pay attention, whatever damage they will do to wikipedia content. Biophys ( talk) 13:12, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
Actually, I have a solution to the whole occupation admission thing. Russia, having chosen to be the legal successor of the USSR, does not recognize the Baltic states as continuous and finds itself needing to play the whole "joined" card to denounce demands for reparations as null and void. It would mean giving up any future demands for reparations (like those are ever going to happen), however, if the Baltic countries refused to recognize Russia as the legal successor of the USSR, that would free Russia to acknowledge occupation as it would have been released from any obligation as successor, as the Baltics would have explicitly recognized occupation as an act of another regime. To reconcile the irreconcilable, diplomacy must achieve a perfect balance of plausible and implausible. Just a wild, half-baked thought, hangover from a 5:00AM conference call the other morning.
PЄTЄRS J V ►
TALK
02:16, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
You are invited to Wikipedia:The Musical in NYC, an editathon, Wikipedia meet-up and lectures that will be held on Saturday, October 22, 2011, at the New York Public Library for the Performing Arts (at Lincoln Center), as part of the Wikipedia Loves Libraries events being held across the USA.
All are welcome, sign up on the wiki and here!-- Pharos ( talk) 05:17, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
I saw your last AE comment. He demonstrated that he came from this IP: [16]. Among all banned pro-Soviet users, his daily activity cycle coincides only with User:Cognition aka User:172, see edits by the latter (you can check yourself using this wikitool). This is not enough for asking checkuser at this point. Biophys ( talk) 01:11, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
Sander has started a draft style guide Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Baltic states-related articles to enshrine the current editorial practices and style in Baltic articles, perhaps you may want to contribute. -- Martin Tammsalu ( talk) 20:12, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
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In conjunction with a mildly amusing discussion I had on the ru:Latvia talk page, I gotta ask: so, what is the de jure date of Latvian statehood? -- illythr ( talk) 18:32, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
Short answer
Long answer:
That's still not it: the basic idea is that the recognition granted by RSFSR to SSLR fulfilled the criterion of international recognition, thus creating the first de-jure state on that territory. Recognition of the same kind as granted by the RSFSR to the Latvian Republic in 1920 and by the other countries in 1921. Nothing to do with transfer of sovereign authority of any kind. -- illythr ( talk) 21:59, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
I've revied your comment regarding the unfortunate nature of the Kyiv post, mentioning the owners name and saying that is why it might be anti-Christian. After looking up what the owners name actually is, I am appaled you would find that just because someone has a certain name they would be anti-Christian. I remind you that racism is not welcomed on Wikipedia.
-- Ljudyna ( talk) 02:19, 6 November 2011 (UTC)Ljudyna
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Vecrumba, what is in fact "unacceptable" is the battleground mentality you are displaying in your aggressive exchange at User talk:Paul Siebert#Unacceptable. Knock it off, or you'll be blocked again. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:28, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
Dear Vecrumba/Archive 5: Hello, this is to let you know that a Mediation Cabal case that you are involved in, or have some connection with:
is currently inactive as it has not been edited in at least a week. If the issues in the case have been resolved, please let us know on our talk page so we can close the case. If there are still issues that need to be addressed, let us know. If your mediator has become inactive, also let us know. The case will be closed in one month if it remains inactive. You can let us know what's going on by sending a message through to your mediator, Steven Zhang, on their talk page. Thanks! MedcabBot ( talk) 12:19, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
Thank you for your prompt reply and for taking immediate action .It is appreciated. Just FYI. I see some random links after your reply, which seems like "spam:" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Brahma_Kumaris_World_Spiritual_University:_External_link_section
Riveros11 ( talk) 01:19, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
I have disagreement with you on this one but let us be discussing on talk page.
Site in question is keeping best resource of third party academic papers on topic [17]. I am thinking this is not your special area and Brahma Kumar member above is just playing you. -- Januarythe18th ( talk) 03:56, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
As you found out, this website is a personal website owned by an individual and not a group or organization. I have proof of that and I will be happy to disclose it.
The user complaining, "January 18" is an impersonation of many ids which have been disabled before by many admins which belong to the same individual.
That website (brahmakumaris.info) has violated some Wikipedia rules as described before in my link check question. Namely, it is non neutral material but very biased and it has been used to insult brahma Kumaris editors.
It is my hope, that you will be able to enforce what you found to be true. I can provide with all the details if needed.
Will respond on the discussion page as well.
Riveros11 ( talk) 16:00, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
Hi Vecrumba, this is a boilerplate message to let you know that we have moved on to issue two of the Holodomor mediation, victim estimates. At the moment we are accepting statements from all participants, so if you want to make your position on this issue known, then now would be a very good time to contribute. Your statement should be no longer than 200 words, and should include both your opinion on the issue and what you hope will be addressed in the mediation. We will be accepting statements until 00:00, 22 December 2011 (UTC), or until we have statements from all spokespersons. Please note, however, that even if you miss this deadline you are free to contribute to the mediation at any time. You can find the appropriate section on the mediation page here. All the best — Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 06:46, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
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Dear Vecrumba/Archive 5: Hello, this is to let you know that a Mediation Cabal case that you are involved in, or have some connection with:
is currently inactive as it has not been edited in at least a week. If the issues in the case have been resolved, please let us know on our talk page so we can close the case. If there are still issues that need to be addressed, let us know. If your mediator has become inactive, also let us know. The case will be closed in one month if it remains inactive. You can let us know what's going on by sending a message through to your mediator, Steven Zhang, on their talk page. Thanks! MedcabBot ( talk) 06:17, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
Dear Vecrumba/Archive 5: Hello, this is to let you know that a Mediation Cabal case that you are involved in, or have some connection with:
is currently inactive as it has not been edited in at least a week. If the issues in the case have been resolved, please let us know on our talk page so we can close the case. If there are still issues that need to be addressed, let us know. If your mediator has become inactive, also let us know. The case will be closed in one month if it remains inactive. You can let us know what's going on by sending a message through to your mediator, Steven Zhang, on their talk page. Thanks! MedcabBot ( talk) 15:13, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
Hi there, you told me to let you know once the article is up for re-nomination. Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Battle of Radzymin (1920). Consider yourself poked :) BTW, let me know should you need any help with the Courland Pocket thingie, I'm sure I can be of some help. // Halibu tt 21:40, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
I have my moments for example see talk:Courland Pocket where we exchanged comments with others back in 2008. -- PBS ( talk) 06:12, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
Nominations for the " Military Historian of the Year" for 2011 are now open. If you would like to nominate an editor for this award, please do so here. Voting will open on 22 January and run for seven days. Thanks! On behalf of the coordinators, Nick-D ( talk) and Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 00:46, 16 January 2012 (UTC) You were sent this message because you are a listed as a member of the Military history WikiProject.
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Dear Vecrumba/Archive 5: Hello, this is to let you know that a Mediation Cabal case that you are involved in, or have some connection with:
is currently inactive as it has not been edited in at least a week. If the issues in the case have been resolved, please let us know on our talk page so we can close the case. If there are still issues that need to be addressed, let us know. If your mediator has become inactive, also let us know. The case will be closed in one month if it remains inactive. You can let us know what's going on by sending a message through to your mediator, Steven Zhang, on their talk page. Thanks! MedcabBot ( talk) 12:44, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
I'd invite you to officially join our project, and you may want to participate in the interview. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me 18:57, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
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Thanks, Codrin.B ( talk) 02:50, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
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i saw your discussion opinions of the swedes article talkpage , it seems to me that the discussion ended too abruptly , can you please continue it i will support you if i must 95.199.10.103 ( talk) 16:13, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
I created that category for governments that used to be in exile but not longer are, either because they came back from exile (as is the case for the Estonian government in exile) or because they ceased to exist. Maybe the category should be renamed Governments formely in exile or Governments historically in exile. What do you think?-- Cattus talk 22:26, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
Paldies Jums par padomiem! Fermmyt ( talk) 16:33, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Please be advised that the Arbitration Committee has now opened a Review of the background relating to the Request for Amendment at which you submitted a statement. A Review is a streamlined version of case, with a short window for presenting evidence.
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Want to talk about something over a beer? Is there some article we could work on together? Perhaps something about Latvia; Latvian articles are neglected, while all kinds of hot political topics get too much attention and energy. Nanobear ( talk) 01:11, 19 March 2012 (UTC) |
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Please see my comment to Talk:Western betrayal that starts "VєсrumЬа I think you are making a mistake in the way you are discussing this ...". -- PBS ( talk) 15:18, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi, I'm not sure what happened but it seems we got off of the wrong foot on the talk page at western betrayal. I am happy to take the blame if we can reset and diffuse the tension or any personal conflict! My interest in the article is mainly to see that there is something more than just a long list of Polish dirty laundry pieces aimed at their wartime partners, which is mainly what it is now. As it happens I agree with the Polish accusations as far as they go, but I am certain they are truly understood only in a larger context both of overall Polish culture/history and in terms of the overall history of that part of Europe in the 20th century. In other words, a closer look at Polaish behaviour is warranted if the article is going to be so critical of other nations behavior. Also, except to say that it is so long that a casual reader quickly losses interest (and thus the point is lost), I am not very interested in editing the long history of betrayals portion, as I feel the betrayal-minded have a point and should be heard here. I just think there should be a mirror held up to those making the accusations so that readers can better judge the context of those claiming betrayal. Kind wishes, MGZ MarshallGeorgyZhukov ( talk) 18:35, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
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Hi Peters, you may be interested in Wikipedia:HighBeam/Applications. Cheers, Nug ( talk) 18:07, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
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Hey, V. Over here [18] you reverted me, with edit summary "Source is absolutely clear about official atheism and pursuit of militant Leninist interpretation of Marxist atheism, no synthesis here." As I'd explained, "I see no reference to "Marxist-Leninist atheism" in Sacks' book." Could you clarify which page supports the sentence that "The Soviet Union was the first state to declare the promotion of Marxist–Leninist atheism an official policy"? Having searched the book for the phrase "Marxist-Leninist atheism", I found no reference to "Marxist-Leninist atheism" in it. The synth involved is in the actual phrase: did the Soviet Union officially promote "Marxist-Leninist atheism as an official policy" - or did the party promote atheism within an officially secular state?
A paragraph on p. 167 states that the USSR was the first modern state to promote atheism because of the country's control by the Communist Party, but that the state itself was secular. That was in the text we already had, so there does not appear to be an improvement. If you are sure that there is material on "Marxist-Leninist atheism" in the book, would you please reproduce the paragraph containing it? Zloyvolsheb ( talk) 04:46, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
Look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Marxist%E2%80%93Leninist_atheism&diff=488882053&oldid=488396395 All of the citations were removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Агафья ( talk • contribs) 03:14, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
There is more here too that you did not add back: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Marxist%E2%80%93Leninist_atheism&diff=488882053&oldid=488396395 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Агафья ( talk • contribs) 03:19, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
I did not write those things there but the citations should not be removed. If you are able, please fix them again because I am not able to. For this I will be grateful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Агафья ( talk • contribs) 17:02, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
This one says "abolish" good sir: http://books.google.com/books?id=R0PrjC1Ar7gC&pg=PA43&dq=%22Marxist+atheism%22+%22China%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=D9uWT_7POsfk0QGDrZW5Dg&ved=0CFcQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=%22Marxist%20atheism%22%20%22China%22&f=false — Preceding unsigned comment added by Агафья ( talk • contribs) 17:06, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
"Therefore, the abolition of religion and the abolition of the capitalist system are the same process. The party requires its 64 million members to believe in Marxist atheism, and to educate the masses of various ethnic groups with the Marxist perspective on religion." Now you should put the article back as it was. VєсrumЬа says you should change the wording, not remove the citations. Please fix them. For this I will be grateful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Агафья ( talk • contribs) 23:57, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
I am talking about the definition, not China or the Soviet Union. So just put them back and change it to "will wither away" like VєсrumЬа said.
If you are not aware that Marxism-Leninism was the basis of the government for the CCCP, read this: "The Russian Orthodox Church was the only officially allowed religious institution, and the official policy of the state was Marxist-Leninist atheism." You can look at it here: http://books.google.com/books?id=qx7Tvd99xVAC&pg=PA232&dq=The+Russian+Orthodox+Church+was+the+only+officially+allowed+religious+institution,+and+the+official+policy+of+the+state+was+Marxist-Leninist+atheism.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=WDN1T_fUN4Ku0AGczvioDQ&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=The%20Russian%20Orthodox%20Church%20was%20the%20only%20officially%20allowed%20religious%20institution%2C%20and%20the%20official%20policy%20of%20the%20state%20was%20Marxist-Leninist%20atheism.&f=false If you don't put the citations back, then I give up. VєсrumЬа can look at it, or someone else but this is not right. That is all I have to say. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Агафья ( talk • contribs) 02:15, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
I am beginning to suspect that you are not from Russia. If you would like to know more about the treatment of the Jews, then read this: http://books.google.com/books?id=2Ae-e3MUVjkC&pg=PA99&dq=But+the+hundreds+of+thousands+of+Jews+in+the+Soviet+sector+were+subject+to+the+regime's+ruthless+campaign+of+militant+atheism.+Synagogues+were+closed,+demolished,+or+converted+for+secular+use,+and+religious+life+was+crushed.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xmKXT_SxL4Lh0QGws8jSDg&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=But%20the%20hundreds%20of%20thousands%20of%20Jews%20in%20the%20Soviet%20sector%20were%20subject%20to%20the%20regime's%20ruthless%20campaign%20of%20militant%20atheism.%20Synagogues%20were%20closed%2C%20demolished%2C%20or%20converted%20for%20secular%20use%2C%20and%20religious%20life%20was%20crushed.&f=false
It is a well known fact that the religious were persecuted in the Soviet Union and the fact that you state that they weren't speaks volumes. I will be going now. This matter is out of my hands. I assumed you knew about these things. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Агафья ( talk • contribs) 02:39, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
I provided the links and you do not believe them. I am done here and am leaving. I leave the rest up to you and VєсrumЬа. Goodbye. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Агафья ( talk • contribs) 03:12, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
@ Vecrumba: I don't think there is really a disagreement, since we seem to agree on facts. The reason I wanted to take a look at an exact quote was to see whether there was a special meaning to "Marxist-Leninist atheism" apart from the Soviet-style view of religion as contradicting "scientific" Marxism and the policies vis-a-vis religion enacted by the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. Sacks' book does not indicate that there is, and the term "Marxist-Leninist atheism" is never used there. Instead, Sacks writes that the state was statutorily neutral, but that the CPSU, favoring atheism, curbed the sphere of religious activity: "Although the government is statutorily neutral on questions of religion, as required by the clause of the Soviet Constitution that guarantees "freedom and conscience," the Communist party (CPSU) claims no such neutrality. Thus, the CPSU's control of the government organs insures that the state, in fact, is not totally neutral in regard to religion. Through state and party operations, religious institutions are limited in the scope of their activities, and the religious consciousness of the population is combated." (p. 167)
Before, the article already said that "In Soviet law, the 'freedom to hold religious services' was constitutionally guaranteed, although the ruling Communist Party regarded religion as incompatible with the Marxist–Leninist spirit of scientific materialism.[129] In practice, the Soviet system subscribed to a narrow interpretation of this right, and in fact utilized a range of official measures to discourage religion and curb the activities of religious groups.[129]" It then goes on to provide several examples. I think this is exactly what Sacks means. Since we are writing an encyclopedia article, we want to be informative but brief in scope, and this is adequately done by summarizing the state of religion in the Soviet Union and its basis in Marxism without bringing in an undefined term like "Marxist-Leninist atheism."
Sacks does call the USSR "the first modern state" to promote atheism officially. I'm not certain this claim is accurate because there was a notable effort to end theism in early Revolutionary France, a critical period in modernity. See Dechristianisation of France during the French Revolution. France first replaced theism with an atheistic Cult of Reason, then went over to the Deistic Cult of the Supreme Being. [19]
Агафья also introduced a second source [20], but this is the book Marxist-Leninist 'Scientific Atheism' and the Study of Religion and Atheism in the USSR. "Scientific atheism" is a Soviet term for religious studies in the critical Soviet form, introduced during the post-Stalin effort to inculcate atheism into the masses, and this is the focus of the book. Marxist critiques of religion are given in parallel and get detailed, but not the larger state role other than the general context; e.g.: "As Marxist, the leadership of the Communist Party has always expected secularisation to follow naturally from scientific progress and socio-economic change, but as Leninist, it has also been aware of the necessity of accelerating this process by an active policy of secularisation. Within this active policy of secularisation, and in particular within the area of the secularisation of consciousness, the study of religion..." (on p. 171)
Additionally, "The immediate period following the establishment of the Soviet state included a struggle against the Orthodox Church, which the revolutionaries considered an ally of the former ruling classes" was changed into "The immediate period following the establishment of the Soviet state included a 1917-1921 campaign against the Orthodox Church, which the revolutionaries considered an ally of the former ruling classes". First, this changes the meaning of the sentence: the early struggle with the Orthodox Church was more comprehensive than the campaign in 1917-1922. Second, if "Soviet state" refers to Soviet Union, that state was founded in 1922, and the campaign in 1917-1921 campaign could not have chronologically come after. Zloyvolsheb ( talk) 08:35, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
Hi!
My name is Victor and I'm a storyteller with the Wikimedia Foundation, the non-profit organization that supports Wikipedia. I'm chronicling the inspiring stories of the Wikipedia community around the world, including those from readers, editors, and donors. Stories are absolutely essential for any non-profit to persuade people to support the cause, and we know the vast network of people who make and use Wikipedia have so much to share. I found your username from the Highbeam application list.
I'd very much like the opportunity to interview you to tell your story, with the possibility of using it in our materials, on our community websites, or as part of this year’s fundraiser to encourage others to support Wikipedia. Please let me know if you're inclined to take part in the Wikipedia Stories Project, or if you know anyone with whom I should speak.
Thank you for your time,
Victor Grigas
vgrigas@wikimedia.org
Victor Grigas ( talk) 00:03, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
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How do you know this? Also selective listings smell of censorshop/promotion and whats not.
I see this not only in "Latvia" page. It is OK if the subject is narrow and it is difficult to find "further reading". However I feel uneasy when a random wikipedian (especialy anonymous one in this case) is trusted with arbitrary selection.
A good idea would be to somehow ensure quality of the bibliography, i.e., 'notability of the books. For example, list only books with wikipedia articles for books or for authors. If there are none, add brief summary/review, from a respectable source, which attests book quality. What do you think? Staszek Lem ( talk) 19:38, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
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Hi, on VM's page you said "there are tons of recipes" - so were you saying the cake's notable in your view? I really don't understand the others' views on this, so I'd appreciate your comment. Malick78 ( talk) 14:25, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
Well, one person's warning over vandalism and stalking is the perpetrator's nonsense. Easier than hunting down diffs in the future. VєсrumЬа ► TALK 16:00, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
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i'm sorry for the edit summary. please accept my apologies. altetendekrabbe 15:00, 12 June 2012 (UTC) |
Be careful in your posts. The racist trolls are obviously trying to get you to lose your calm, and get you banned on a civility violation. Just step back from those discussions for 24 hours and read (and reply) just once a day. That will be good for your pressure and we won't lose you to a forced vacation from Wikipedia. -- Sander Säde 17:30, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
This your edit summary [21] is blatantly wrong and misleading. You state I have been engaged in synthesis, whereas I made no statements that are are not explicitly present in the quotes provided by me. Your edit summaries are more and more false and incivil. Please, stop that.-- Paul Siebert ( talk) 15:28, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
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At User:Xil's talk page you offered to make further recordings of the pronunciation of Latvian words, albeit as a low-priority project. I'm currently trying to improve the coverage of Latvian words at the English Wiktionary, where I've noticed that only a few entries are provided with pronunciation... So, if you ever have a break, you could just have a look at the Wiktionary wikt:Category:Latvian nouns, pick any five (they probably won't have pronunciation files), record their pronunciation (preferably in .ogg format, but if you do .wav or .mp3 I can convert them) and then upload them to Commons (via the Upload Wizard), placing them in the Commons Category:Latvian pronunciation, where I can find them and attach them to the appropriate Wiktionary entries. There's no hurry, no urgency. Whenever you manage to find time to do this, do also leave a note at my Wiktionary talk page so that I'll know there are new pronunciation files available. Liels paldies! -- Pereru ( talk) 04:23, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
Jokes aside, it is important to realize that wikijustice follows Russian model "sudit' po ponjatijam, and ne po zakonu", meaning "to judge based on our understanding [what is best for the business], not based on the law". And the business here is creating good encyclopedia. Arguing on noticeboards is usually not good for the business. Speaking about myself, I am switching to a new and very challenging scientific project (get some funding!) and probably will not be able to contribute on-wiki. Happy editing. My very best wishes ( talk) 12:18, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
wikt:Category:Requests for audio pronunciation (Latvian) has a starter list of words for which we'd wish to have Latvian sound files. There's no hurry or pressure, just in case you happen to have some time (and Audacity or some program that can save .ogg files...). -- Pereru ( talk) 20:25, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
The Lindsay Jones Encyclopedia of Religion has several articles relating to the topic of religion, and many if not most are available on the HighBeam site if you have access to it. If you don't, drop me an e-mail and I'll have the site e-mail them to you. John Carter ( talk) 19:29, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
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Re [24]: Please clarify how this comment refers to me, as the filer of the AE. I actually did expand the article with the most important contributions also for the Old Prussian, Latvian and Lithuanian religious history/language codifying [25] [26], putting the contributions to the Polish religious history in that context. It was VM who removed the Latvian enchirion and the Lithuanian bible [27]. I actually agree with this your talk page comment and have edited in that direction before I became frustrated by the name-calling and reverting and disengaged. So I can not quite understand your reproach? Skäpperöd ( talk) 18:01, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
You can't say you've "disengaged" if you've abandoned the article and moved on to filing an enforcement request. You've done the exact opposite. All you've done is open up the door for endless rehashing of and accusations regarding the past. Hence my reproach. VєсrumЬа ► TALK 18:58, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
I am glad that we seem to at least agree content-wise, but that is not the issue here. When VM called me a shithead, a liar and such, and came to an article he had not really edited before just when I (and HM, with whom he also has a "history") edit there, to start with a revert and a rant on the talk page, and the reverting of editors harrassed previously is so fast that the article gets protected, and him talking about his "annoying" friend who by coincidence shows up too - how can you assume that he "did not start it" and that the escalation happened by reporting that? I mean, seriously, imagine something like this happen to you at work, and VM would be fired immediately.
I don't think that you are impartial enough to mediate anything regarding VM or Molobo, given your past EEML collaboration [28]. However, I do not remember you taking part in the really mean actions against me back then, so I hope we get along anyway.
There remain however some points that you need to sort out. You are entitled to your opinions about VM and Molobo, and we can continue to get along well whatever opinion that is. However, you have in the past created the wrong impression of uninvolvement here [29] [30], with respect to FPaS after they blocked you for violating your EEML topic ban [31]. To not create a wrong impression at the current AE, I ask you to:
If you were open about that, and if you stopped cursing at AE about the EEML case being mentioned (just go by that warning regardless), that would be a good start. Regards Skäpperöd ( talk) 10:42, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
![]() |
The Polish Barnstar of National Merit, 2nd Class | |
For your constant help with the Poland-related articles and issues, on behalf of Wikipedia:WikiProject Poland, I award you the Polish Barnstar of National Merit, 2nd class. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 17:16, 23 August 2012 (UTC) | ||
this WikiAward was given to Vecrumba by Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here on 17:16, 23 August 2012 (UTC) |
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Welcome to the first edition of The Olive Branch. This will be a place to semi-regularly update editors active in dispute resolution (DR) about some of the most important issues, advances, and challenges in the area. You were delivered this update because you are active in DR, but if you would prefer not to receive any future mailing, just add your name to this page.
In this issue:
--The Olive Branch 19:36, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
That was the first time when I posted anything on the RSN. This book is obviously a classic example of Neo-Stalinist pseudo-history. Based on the lack of support (and even lack of any helpful comments), one can conclude that posting such sources to RSN does not make any sense. If it were a Neo-Nazi source, the reaction would be very different. C'est la vie. My very best wishes ( talk) 05:11, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
The Military history WikiProject has started its 2012 project coordinator election process, where we will select a team of coordinators to organize the project over the coming year. If you would like to be considered as a candidate, please submit your nomination by 14 September. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to contact one of the current coordinators on their talk page. This message was delivered here because you are a member of the Military history WikiProject. – Military history coordinators ( about the project • what coordinators do) 10:05, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
This edition The Olive Branch is focusing on a 2nd dispute resolution RfC. Two significant proposals have been made. Below we describe the background and recent progress and detail those proposals. Please review them and follow the link at the bottom to comment at the RfC. We need your input!
View the full newsletter
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Until late 2003, Jimmy Wales was the arbiter in all major disputes. After the Mediation Committee and the Arbitration Committee were founded, Wales delegated his roles of dispute resolution to these bodies. In addition to these committees, the community has developed a number of informal processes of dispute resolution. At its peak, over 17 dispute resolution venues existed. Disputes were submitted in each venue in a different way. Due to the complexity of Wikipedia dispute resolution, members of the community were surveyed in April 2012 about their experiences with dispute resolution. In general, the community believes that dispute resolution is too hard to use and is divided among too many venues. Many respondents also reported their experience with dispute resolution had suffered due to a shortage of volunteers and backlogging, which may be due to the disparate nature of the process. An evaluation of dispute resolution forums was made in May this year, in which data on response and resolution time, as well as success rates, was collated. This data is here.
![]() Leading off from the survey in April and the evaluation in May, several changes to dispute resolution noticeboard (DRN) were proposed. Rather than using a wikitext template to bring disputes to DRN, editors used a new javascript form. This form was simpler to use, but also standardised the format of submissions and applied a word limit so that DRN volunteers could more easily review disputes. A template to summarise, and a robot to maintain the noticeboard, were also created. As a result of these changes, volunteers responded to disputes in a third of the time, and resolved them 60% faster when compared to May. Successful resolution of disputes increased by 17%. Submissions were 25% shorter by word count.(see Dispute Resolution Noticeboard Statistics - August compared to May) Outside of DRN other simplification has taken place. The Mediation Cabal was closed in August, and Wikiquette assistance was closed in September. Nevertheless, around fifteen different forums still exist for the resolution of Wikipedia disputes.
Given the success of the past efforts at DR reform, the current RFC proposes we implement: 1) A submission gadget for every DR venue tailored to the unique needs of that forum.
2) A universal dispute resolution wizard, accessible from Wikipedia:Dispute resolution.
3) Additionally, we're seeking any ideas on how we can attract and retain more dispute resolution volunteers. |
Please share your thoughts at the RfC.
--The Olive Branch 18:44, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
Regarding this, I request you to immediately apologise, and strike through the libel you posted. You have 24 hours.-- Paul Siebert ( talk) 21:39, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
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Could you please comment on
this on the MKuCR talk page.
Thank you in advance. --
Paul Siebert (
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20:12, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
Labdien. Esmu pamanījis, ka Jūs esat atsevišķu attēlu autors. Vai Jūsu īpašumā ir arī citi interesanti attēli no Latvijas PSR ikdienas? -- Laurijs ( talk) 14:07, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
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Hello :-) I added pictures of famous people to the Latvians article. If you think anyone else should be added or someone should be removed feel free! Danton's Jacobin ( talk) 22:14, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
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You are invited to Wikipedia Goes to the Movies in NYC, an editathon, Wikipedia meet-up and workshops focused on film and the performing arts that will be held on Saturday, December 1, 2012, at the New York Public Library for the Performing Arts (at Lincoln Center), as part of the Wikipedia Loves Libraries events being held across the USA.
All are welcome, sign up on the wiki and at meetup.com!-- Pharos ( talk) 08:13, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
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You are invited to celebrate Wikipedia Day and the 12th anniversary (!) of the founding of the site at Wikipedia Day NYC on Saturday February 23, 2013 at New York University; sign up for Wikipedia Day NYC here, or at bit.ly/wikidaynyu. Newcomers are very welcome! Bring your friends and colleagues!
We especially encourage folks to add your 5-minute lightning talks to our roster, and otherwise join in the "open space" experience!-- Pharos ( talk) 03:28, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
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Hi user Vecrumba, I was surfing through the archives of various talk pages related to Soviet occupations in Europe. I've also seen your name somewhere before, maybe in request for feedback in the naming Rfc for Viipuri? Anyway, I appreciated your summary on your user page about Soviet vs. non-Soviet POV. I know this would be asking a lot, but if you would be inclined to take a look at the edit-war occurring at Continuation War, I'd really be grateful. I lament the Sovietization of WP, and I obviously have no appreciation yet just how endemic and pervasive this problem really is. Specifically, I'm wondering how to move the edit-war there to resolution. The main combatants in the war seem to just talk at each other rather than to each other. I'm not confident in mediation having much effect. Having watched how it went with the naming rfc for Viipuri and now another rfc in progress (referenced in the CW talk page), I'm kind of inclined to be pessimistic about it. Is it possible to escalate a content and process disagreement directly to arbitration? Thanks for your trouble! Paavo273 ( talk) 07:17, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
Two complaints have been filed at Administrators noticeboard/Incidents [37] seeking relief from actions taken by other users on the Continuation War talk page, on which you have been active. Paavo273 ( talk) 23:52, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
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You should be concentrating your arguments on the editors who agree with me. Otherwise, you're basically wasting your time 'zeroing in' on me. GoodDay ( talk) 04:42, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
I've already implemented the Rfc's decision, at NHL and former NHL player bios birth countries. GoodDay ( talk) 04:20, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Re this comment. I didn't want to answer on that page since it wasn't directly related to Winter War, but I did find it interesting.
Soviet structural-federal commitment to "self-determination", even if certain radical separatists were suppressed in early years, seems to have been the key enabler of the creation of 15 sovereign states when there was one before 1991. Iran, as one contrast, was a unitary state with no pretense to self-determination, so when Shah was overthrown, there was no " southern Azerbaijan" (but yes Soviet Azerbaijan) independence.
Also, isn't it a little bit deceptive to call the pre-SSRs "neighbors" of the Soviet Union, when they were constituent parts of the Russian Empire that were temporarily alienated from the center in the turmoil following the world wars and the overthrow of the imperial government. What would have been truly scandalous would be the Soviet Union annexing some state like Korea, which had no previous association with Russia or history of Russian rule.
Of course, I don't desire to discuss the Baltic states like they were representative of the SSRs, because they weren't, not least because today's and then's nationalist governments have the most appealing and sophisticated propaganda, even better than the well-practiced Russia. Shrigley ( talk) 01:25, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
Saw yours @ GoodDay's. Just so you know, legally according to international law, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania were never the "USSR". WP practice is to use the name of the legitimate sovereign nation. Of course, that does not prevent much wailings and gnashings of teeth over what to call the Baltic states while under the forcible control of the USSR. VєсrumЬа ► TALK 21:09, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
Saw yours @ GoodDay's. Just so you know, legally according to international law, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania were never the "USSR". WP practice is to use the name of the legitimate sovereign nation. Of course, that does not prevent much wailings and gnashings of teeth over what to call the Baltic states while under the forcible control of the USSR. VєсrumЬа ► TALK 21:09, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
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Mr T (Talk?) (New thread?) 16:26, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
there is an ongoing debate about the modern germanic peoples exist in [38] and [39] if the germanic peoples exist in modern times we need your help due your many expertise on the subject based on your contributions so please help us thanks Enbionycaar ( talk) 17:07, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
I've noticed your comments at Jagiellon dynasty, and filed a move request for discussion. Andrew Gray ( talk) 18:24, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
Any comments appreciated! -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 10:56, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
Any mention of cenzorship (even the tsarist one) has been removed. Xx236 ( talk) 09:00, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
I reverted the edit you made to Invasion of Poland#Aftermath. You questioned the citation. Follow the link for a pic of the page 62 Kursk blah blah blah (Lloyd Clark). http://postimg.org/image/6y4zrnlht/ EyeTruth ( talk) 05:42, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
I agree with you that it was the author's own inference, however he spent the next 5 pages bolstering it, and I was convinced when I considered other things I knew about German-Soviet relation between the summers of 1939 and 1941. The author asserts that while Stalin tried so hard to appease Germany, the red army command worked non-stop to prepare the itself for the obvious forthcoming war, although Stalin's intervention often hampered the preparations. But there is unequivocal evidence that Stalin wanted to avoid a war with Germany at least during that period at all cost, which went against his instincts to act preemptively against Germany as made clear in many of his statements.
I could post the other pages but I think that would be an abuse of fair use. On a side note, the author actually never extols Stalin's regime. In fact, he blamed Stalin for the disaster that befell the Red Army in 1941. But he also pointed out a few useful ends Stalin accomplished via horrific means, like the colossal overhaul he imposed on the Soviet production in the 1920s and 1930s. I've read two of his book and I can say he is one of the unbiased historians out there. EyeTruth ( talk) 18:09, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
I will cite the other pages. I've considered summarizing them as well, but I think they are beyond the scope of the article-- Stalin's denial of intelligence reports on German's preparations; Stalin's delivery of resources in strict adherence to the M-R pact, despite increasing German disinclination to fulfill its part; Stalin's refusal to order a full mobilization despite the pleas of his senior officer; These are the points Clark expounded on. They belong to Operation Barbarossa. I will leave them out in the Invasion of Poland, but I will cite the pages. EyeTruth ( talk) 19:09, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
Hi Vecrumba! You're invited to our next meeting for Wikipedia Meetup NYC on Sunday April 14 -this weekend- at Symposium Greek Restaurant @ 544 W 113th St (in the back room), on the Upper West Side in the Columbia University area.
Please sign up, and add your ideas to the agenda for Sunday. Thanks!
Delivered on behalf of User:Pharos, 17:48, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
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Thank you for your supportive comment at my draft (not yet public) Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Piotrus 2. Foreseeing some potential stormy clouds, may I suggest that your first comment/vote there may benefit from an added explanation of how did you became aware of the said RfA in the first place? -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:53, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
IMHO this will be a litmus test to see who can't let go of their personal investment in past conflict. Recall the accusations that the EEML had been active for years prior, many years in total, on the basis of no change in on-Wiki conduct or editorial position of any editor. Odd that not a single word of content by any editor was ever questioned as to being a fair and accurate representation of sources.
As for me, personally, I would have respected a ban for having had any discussion of WP off-WP. However my topic ban was based on bogus findings describing appearances only, saving Arbcom from putting themselves in the libelous position of calling me a liar. I'm mostly glad that's all over and done with, but some editors obviously find that irksome. Quite honestly, anyone still brandishing the EEML sword after all this time has no interest in protecting the project, only in pursuing their own sad personal vendettas—those who have begged for and received forgiveness for their past transgressions (real off-WP attacks) are demonstrably less magnanimous when it comes to others. VєсrumЬа ► TALK 05:37, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
Hello Vecrumba, -- Sandstunk ( talk) 12:13, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
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Pierogi Award |
Thanks for your support of my RfA. It didn't succeed this time, but that's no reason not to have some nice pierogi. Cheers, -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 14:19, 3 May 2013 (UTC) |
For a novel method of WP:SHOUTING on a talk page:
![]() |
Whack! You've been whacked with a wet trout. Don't take this too seriously. Someone just wants to let you know you did something silly. |
Robert McClenon ( talk) 21:13, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
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November 29, 2000 in accordance with the recommendations of the UN by former President Smirnov issued a decree № 591 "On the transliteration and place names", according to which the name of the TMR in the Latin alphabet was established as Pridnestrovskaia Moldavskaia Respublica (Pridnestrovie).
But despite the categorical decree signed by the President, ministries and departments of the Republic on their official websites the name of the republic in the Latin alphabet or the English translation was used, based on their own "fantasy."
Thus, until 2012 only seven official sites, namely the Supreme Council, the Foreign Ministry, the State Customs Committee, the Constitutional Court, the Court of Arbitration, the Bank "Gazprombank" and PWB there were 15 (!) Different spellings in English the name of our country.
For example, the site of SCC were listed three options: Transdniestrian Moldavian Republic, Transdniestria, Dniester Moldavian Republic. Ministry of Foreign Affairs' nafantaziroval "has 5 options: Transdniestrian Moldavian Republic, Transdniestria, Pridnestrovie, Pridnestpovien Moldavian Republic, Pridnestrovskaia Moldavskaia Respublica.
PRB, a financial representative of the TMR in the international arena, too, did not fail to distinguish themselves, invented the three names of the republic: Trans-Dniester Moldavian Republic (TMR), Pridnestrovskaya Moldavskaya Respublica (PMR), Moldova (Transdniestria). And after all that surprising - none of the names do not match what is defined in the decree of the president! The coloring of these sites were added illiterate contraction of the words "street" and "city", ie «ul» instead of «str», and «g» instead of «town» or «Sity".
Suppressing the existence of the above leapfrog with a translation of the title of the state, 06.04.2012 Mr. Smirnov was repealed Decree "On the place names and the transliteration of" not observed by 12 years, and in accordance with Art. 65 of the Constitution of TMR's new president signed a decree number 252, which recognized only the official name of the TMR in English - Pridnestpovian Moldavian Republic (Pridnestrovie).
Finally - after almost 22 yo - Transnistria took a step to the recognition - decided on his own name. The case for small - there were only learn to respect and abide by their own laws. [1] -- 217.19.208.101 ( talk) 22:37, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
Hi, Vercrumba. You obviously haven't caught up with the Kievan Rus' talk page yet. Before I make a slight amendment to your addition, I'd just like to run it by you to see whether you have any objections. I responded to your message on the talk page with,
"Fair enough. Wikipedia should cite variants on the nomenclature. It's unfortunate that it should be in the preamble/intro as it continues to perpetuate the lack of distinction between interpretations according to Western eras. I'd suggest that many readers would just read the intro to acquaint themselves with the subject at hand and not bother going into the details of the history, much less the evolution of the term 'Kievan Russia'. Would you object if I were to clarify by changing, "Kievan Rus', or Kievan Russia,..." to Kievan Rus' (previously referred to as Kievan Russia in earlier Western scholarship),..."?" I won't make any changes until I've received an answer from you. Cheers! --
Iryna Harpy (
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00:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
To the note that came and went... my primary objection going back all the way was that at some point it was made out to be 50:50, Baltics say continuous, Russia says not, matter of whose politics you support. Not politics, but history. In (official) Russia, sadly, history still serves politics. VєсrumЬа ► TALK 23:38, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
Since I know your interest in communist-era sources usage on Wiki, perhaps you'd like to offer your input at Talk:Adam_Mickiewicz#Systematic_Bias. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:44, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
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The question posed at the Elizabeth II RfC, at which you commented, has been amended [40] to clarify a potential misunderstanding. Please re-visit the question and your comment and amend if necessary. Thanks. DrKiernan ( talk) 17:03, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Runic-kokle.gif, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG ( talk) 19:14, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
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Hi there Vecrumba,
I noticed your comments on the talk page and hoped you would have time to give some independent guidance on this article. I find the content is completely controlled/dictated by one editor who probably has ulterior motives for being involved on the page. He accuses me of being a cult follower etc if I make any edits. Everything I have tried to do has been 100% reverted. The article makes accusations that the founder of the group had "intimate and immoral" behaviour with young women, a fairly serious allegation, but without any supporting reference. The only support comes later in the paragraph from a primary resource document that included affidavit material (i.e. all primary) for a Court case that was actually lost. The editor "Januarythe18th" seems to want to draw me into some sort of edit war by immediately reverting edits that I consider very reasonable (as per the example I just gave). I seldom revert his reverts, but in my opinion the article is a real discredit to Wikipedia. There are more examples than the one I have just given. There are 5 or 10 more concerns or issues. Probably the main one is Januarythe18th's connection to the "legal action" (actually it's just an arbitration) which is almost show cased in the article. When I got into this it was taken extremely personally - I presume because Januarythe18th is personally involved and is manifesting his disgruntlement through this Wiki page. I have also had a look at at lot of the page history and I can't help but appreciate how similar the style of this editor is to some of the past trouble editors. I could go on and on....if you could assist with an extra set of eyes so I'm allowed to edit the page that would be appreciated. I also feel this article needs to be tagged because things like unsupported accusations of sexual misconduct show a very serious editing bias and in my opinion, motives that are not in-line with building the world's most awesome and free resource. Probably cherry picking/conflict of interest are most appropriate. Regards Danh108 ( talk) 19:39, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
Alas, I accidentally failed to properly save my new lede in progress last night, might be a couple more before I post one for review. Don't waste your time defending yourself; on WP, protesting innocence is taken as the surest affirmation of guilt. VєсrumЬа ► TALK 22:01, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
It seems to me that an article about a religious movement should be about the movement: origins, beliefs, practices; about its members (e.g., demographics); about its formal organization; and evolution of all the preceding. Most sources on religion refer to the Brahma Kumari movement, not cult. If you agree that the article should be holistic, then you are being very reasonable. But, again, I have to caution you on the litmus test of leading off with "secretive" as the most important adjective, your "factual." And contrary to your contention, BK is specifically called a NRM in sources. So, it seems you're here advocating "cult" and adherents are here advocating "religion". At least those are the appearances.
On the other hand, I don't care what the BK followers "want". If I were a follower, however, I'd look at an article on the organizational aspect of their NRM which does not even mention origins or basic principles in the lede with suspicion at best. I believe the best approach is to create one cohesive article covering everything and then if there is enough material, spin off more detail.
And we can't start with "secretive" no matter how much you argue that is factual. They are "secretive" for historical reasons which I address in my lead but which are wholly absent from the current (your preferred) lead, which makes them seem less guarded and more just another set of we're going to rule the world after the apocalypse kooks. But at this point I'm in danger of repeating myself.
If you agree to a single article on Brahma Kumaris, then I think progress can be made and everyone at the opposite poles can be satisfied even if not happy; moreover, outsiders (that would be readers) can come away with a basic understanding of the movement's origins, beliefs, practices and lifestyle, through to current proselytizing.
I'm being more than reasonable, this isn't my first comparative religion (think of it as creating course materials on Brahma Kumaris) rodeo. I just normally limit my areas of WP contribution as I have plenty of my own projects outside WP. Does this explain my position better? VєсrumЬа ► TALK 04:44, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
Regards Danh108 ( talk) 22:24, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
@Dahn108, we haven't had a chance to discuss content, so I can't say whether we agree or not on what should be in an encyclopedic article, however, we do appear to be agreed that what is there now is not encyclopedic.
@Januarythe18th, first, we should continue on the article talk page, I'd rather not it appear that you or Dahn108 are looking to persuade me to any particular POV.
I don't see any point in arguing cult versus NRM, NRM is more prevalent. Whether or not you're using it pejoratively, why stigmatize when there are other words and your preference is not the majority scholarly use?
Since you believe there is more than enough material for one article, the proper structure is:
and not
The latter sets up a situation where there will be perennial enmity over the first and no one except adherents will care about the latter two, leading to conflict and lack of balance.
If you believe my proposed lead introduces "inaccuracies," discussing that would be far more helpful than arguing I'm uninformed and not up to speed. I did not just use cursory "Encyclopedia of..." sources in writing it. Nor did I describe BK as Hindu because it "appears" in some encyclopedia by that name. I should add that I studied Hinduism in comparative religion likely before you were born, so this will all go better if we discuss content and not my competence.
With respect to what "the BKs want", I would certainly resist any attempt to make the article into a sanctifying homage to their founder. However, that is not the problem--starting with the lead, on which proposed replacement, again, I'm still waiting for something more concrete other than it's wrong and I'm uninformed. If I'm not comprehending your objections, indulge me and take it a sentence at a time. There's no train leaving the station. Indeed, you don't believe there's any train that need depart for any destination.
Lastly, even if you really think BK has gone all wrong since a few hundred practiced in seclusion for their first decade and a half, that's a subject separate from origin and basic tenets. VєсrumЬа ► TALK 22:47, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
Hello Vecrumba, I'm contacting you because we need some Latvian translators to help with the deployment of the new VisualEditor on lv.wikipedia. There are help pages, user guides, and description pages that need translating, as well as the interface itself. The translating work is going on over on MediaWiki: Translation Central. I also need help with a personal message for the Latvian Wikipedians. If you are able to help in any way, either reply here, or head over to TranslationCentral. Thanks for your time, PEarley (WMF) ( talk) 18:18, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
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Just a quick aside Peter.
You suggested I did not respond to your proposal. I thought I did from the point of an overview of both the topic and the context of what was going on and felt it was and is completely ignored.
As evidence of good faith, I've left a lengthy, specific and well referenced response to your suggestion of revising the BKs as Hindu. If you demand, I can go through every word in detail but that seems an unfair burden when really you need to read up on the references first to gain that overview. You were introducing inaccuracies even unaware that they are inaccuracies. For example, regarding "secrecy" - putting aside Prof Beit-Hallahmi's contention regarding the End of the World predictions - which other religion do you know, especially an evangelistic religion, that does not publish it's primary scripture and does not even allow adherents to take copies out of their centers? It's encyclopedic because it is highly accurate and identifying of them.
If you are finding it finding the original references, rather than spend time trawling the internet just ask me which ones you need.
I'd recommend
Of others you have to be a little cautious, e.g. Ramsay works for the organization's public relations front at a high level but is slowly having to come to face reality as reality spill beyond their media control. Long term supporters Whaling and Hodgkinson both rehash the factually incorrect hagiographic version of the religion that the religion puts out itself, as do others (Hodgkinson was married to the chief PR advisor in the West). That's not to say there are not aspects of their work which is not correct. Largely they are in non-controversial areas. However, all of the facts contained within the topic at present are inarguable and correct, which is why the BK adherents are not arguing against them. Most of the minor sources summarise 3 or 4th hand views taken from the above.
My other contention, which is being ignored, is that the Wikipedia should represent a world view. The Brahma Kumaris are a largely Indian religion, 99% +. How they operate in the West, the audience they target and how they market themselves, is very different from India (which is what references say).
What we have going on here are mainly Western BKs attempting to wrestle control of the topic to harmonize it with the marketing of BKism in the West. That is not right from a Wikipedian point of view and that is why they refuse to develop their version in a sandbox which, as new editors, they really should do. What they are demanding is not "collaboration" but submission to that narrow view.
I hope this helps and you can see that it is an informed view rather than a partisan one.
The article is perfectly good enough and does not need more work never mind wasting time and energy in disputes. It stands beside any comparable topic and being well referenced does matter. As a return of good faith, would you be willing to discuss the context for the current editing dispute? -- Januarythe18th ( talk) 09:43, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
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Hi Vecrumba, If you were still prepared to send any good money after the bad, that donation would probably save the page from collapsing into a warzone.
Having said that, I really understand if you're not that tempted....the train that was just about to leave the station got derailed by some socks, and you will more than likely get some degree of personal attack etc....so it's not a great offer. However, the page craves someone with established neutrality. If you wanted an NRM rodeo, this one is already bucking and champing at the bit. Admin have locked the tags on, so at least some content focus will but an end in sight. Best Danh108 ( talk) 04:02, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
Greetings from WikiProject Military history! As a member of the project, you are invited to take part in our annual project coordinator election, which will determine our coordinators for the next twelve months. If you wish to cast a vote, please do so on the election page by 23:59 (UTC) on 28 September! Kirill [talk] 16:56, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
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Volume 1, Issue 1, October 2013
by The Interior ( talk · contribs), Ocaasi ( talk · contribs)
Greetings Wikipedia Library members! Welcome to the inaugural edition of Books and Bytes, TWL’s monthly newsletter. We're sending you the first edition of this opt-in newsletter, because you signed up, or applied for a free research account: HighBeam, Credo, Questia, JSTOR, or Cochrane. To receive future updates of Books and Bytes, please add your name to the subscriber's list. There's lots of news this month for the Wikipedia Library, including new accounts, upcoming events, and new ways to get involved...
New positions: Sign up to be a Wikipedia Visiting Scholar, or a Volunteer Wikipedia Librarian
Wikipedia Loves Libraries: Off to a roaring start this fall in the United States: 29 events are planned or have been hosted.
New subscription donations: Cochrane round 2; HighBeam round 8; Questia round 4... Can we partner with NY Times and Lexis-Nexis??
New ideas: OCLC innovations in the works; VisualEditor Reference Dialog Workshop; a photo contest idea emerges
News from the library world: Wikipedian joins the National Archives full time; the Getty Museum releases 4,500 images; CERN goes CC-BY
Announcing WikiProject Open: WikiProject Open kicked off in October, with several brainstorming and co-working sessions
New ways to get involved: Visiting scholar requirements; subject guides; room for library expansion and exploration
Thanks for reading! All future newsletters will be opt-in only. Have an item for the next issue? Leave a note for the editor on the Suggestions page. -- The Interior 20:35, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
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