It has been incredibly slow in saving edits to an article. Going from page to page is fine though. Any idea why? Mcdynamite ( talk) 01:29, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

There has been a definite lag time for the last hour or so. - jc37 01:33, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for answering. Thought I might be the only one facing this issue... Mcdynamite ( talk) 01:41, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Previewing changes & saving has been very slow since about 12:30 UTC. I thought that if I did something else for an hour it might have come right, but no. Nurg ( talk) 01:50, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

It's not just you, and it's not just edits. Pages have been slow to load. Twitter concurs that there's a problem on Wikipedia. schetm ( talk) 01:53, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

https://grafana.wikimedia.org/d/000000085/save-timing (look for graphs marked "frontend save timing"). And yes, me too. Also saving preferences. Suffusion of Yellow ( talk) 01:55, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

I have opened a ticket at Phab T342494 (not sure if I've done it very well. Nurg ( talk) 02:10, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for opening the ticket. Same here as the others are experiencing. It's all the wikis - Commons, Wikisource, etc. etc. It was saving OK for me a couple of hours ago, but now it takes forever to save. — Maile ( talk) 02:16, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Seems to have suddenly sped up. Nurg ( talk) 02:18, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

There was an outage, now fixed. https://www.wikimediastatus.net/ The Equalizer ( talk) 02:30, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Server loading issues on desktop side

I recently used Google Chrome to access Wikipedia and the result was "503 Service Unavailable No server is available to handle this request." Maybe the tool I used for bypassing censorship has an effect, but DownDetector reported that many people are experiencing the same issue. However it's fine when I used Tor browser and the Google Chrome version had just restored. IntegerSequences ( talk | contribs) 02:19, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

There was a brief outage, it appears to be fixed now. https://www.wikimediastatus.net/incidents/dkp64byz4xjm Lewcm ( talk) 03:46, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

In the past week or two, but especially in the past couple of days, pages including lots of <math> tags on them have been experiencing excessive latency (10s of seconds) for loading and making edits, and at some times of the day such requests time out entirely (after 60s the server gives up, returning: The maximum request time of 60 seconds was exceeded. [«ID number»] «date string»: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\​RequestTimeout\​RequestTimeoutException"). There has been discussion about this on talk pages for golden ratio, prime number, and possibly other pages, and a slightly more general discussion at Wikipedia:Help desk#Golden ratio. During lower-traffic times of day everything works fine, and also pages seem to load okay for some readers from an Android app. Anyhow, the timeouts are making it very difficult to read / edit articles about technical topics. Some kind of fix would be appreciated! – jacobolus  (t) 01:33, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

I just viewed Golden ratio (pretty fast), clicked edit (fast), then preview (roughly 80 seconds by wall clock). The HTML source of the preview contained:

NewPP limit report
Parsed by mw1455
Cached time: 20230722040649
Cache expiry: 600
Reduced expiry: true
Complications: [vary‐revision‐sha1, vary‐revision‐exists, show‐toc]
CPU time usage: 19.750 seconds
Real time usage: 83.412 seconds
Preprocessor visited node count: 14484/1000000
Post‐expand include size: 359791/2097152 bytes
Template argument size: 19071/2097152 bytes
Highest expansion depth: 19/100
Expensive parser function count: 34/500
Unstrip recursion depth: 1/20
Unstrip post‐expand size: 435678/5000000 bytes
Lua time usage: 0.918/10.000 seconds
Lua memory usage: 15046222/52428800 bytes
Number of Wikibase entities loaded: 1/400

Transclusion expansion time report (%,ms,calls,template)
100.00% 81338.394      1 -total
 99.02% 80543.942      2 Template:Reflist
  5.63% 4580.278      1 Template:Notelist
  0.31%  255.475     63 Template:Cite_book
  0.18%  146.923     36 Template:Cite_journal
  0.16%  132.241      7 Template:Navbox
  0.16%  130.244     25 Template:Sfn
  0.15%  121.625     11 Template:Cite_web
  0.11%   88.501      1 Template:Cite_OEIS
  0.11%   87.729      5 Template:Efn

Is that really saying {{ reflist}} took 80 seconds? Johnuniq ( talk) 04:20, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

I just now tried to visit golden ratio and prime number, and both timed out (60s). When getting a preview of a golden ratio edit, it also took ~80 seconds for me. I tried replacing {{ reflist}} with <references> ... </references> and getting another preview, and that didn't speed anything up. Now the relevant section of the source has:

NewPP limit report
Parsed by mw1434
Cached time: 20230722043343
Cache expiry: 600
Reduced expiry: true
Complications: [vary‐revision‐sha1, vary‐revision‐exists, show‐toc]
CPU time usage: 19.028 seconds
Real time usage: 90.114 seconds
Preprocessor visited node count: 14219/1000000
Post‐expand include size: 359145/2097152 bytes
Template argument size: 15800/2097152 bytes
Highest expansion depth: 18/100
Expensive parser function count: 34/500
Unstrip recursion depth: 1/20
Unstrip post‐expand size: 434817/5000000 bytes
Lua time usage: 0.896/10.000 seconds
Lua memory usage: 14909433/52428800 bytes
Number of Wikibase entities loaded: 1/400

Transclusion expansion time report (%,ms,calls,template)
100.00% 89477.744      1 -total
  4.22% 3772.995      1 Template:Notelist
  4.21% 3770.875      1 Template:Reflist
  0.28%  247.264     63 Template:Cite_book
  0.16%  143.940     36 Template:Cite_journal
  0.15%  131.096      7 Template:Navbox
  0.14%  121.812     25 Template:Sfn
  0.13%  120.113     11 Template:Cite_web
  0.10%   88.810      1 Template:Cite_OEIS
  0.09%   83.930      5 Template:Efn

So perhaps reflist is a red herring. (Or maybe there's an issue with rendering the references whether or not it's wrapped in a reflist template.) – jacobolus  (t) 04:38, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Hm. It does seems to have something to do with the references. If I remove all of the instances of <ref>...</ref> and {{sfn}} from the article it's much faster to preview. – jacobolus  (t) 05:04, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

This is probably phab:T341666. I hadn't gotten around to testing if we were experiencing the issue as well, but this section indicates we are. Izno ( talk) 05:43, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

I can't even undo an edit at Newton's laws of motion. It just times out with Error: 503, Backend fetch failed. XOR'easter ( talk) 02:34, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Well, the undo now appears in the page history, but not in the article. That is, the most recent revision in the page history is not the current page. Purging the page cache does not fix this. What is going on here? XOR'easter ( talk) 02:56, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

The change has finally percolated through. I don't think I've ever seen a discrepancy like that before. XOR'easter ( talk) 04:23, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Visited Golden ratio and clicked edit.

Response:

Server timed out

The maximum request time of 60 seconds was exceeded.

[2ff8530f-33e4-4d94-b609-98939a5728bc] 2023-07-23 02:41:04: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\RequestTimeout\RequestTimeoutException" IntegerSequences ( talk | contribs) 02:43, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

I have clicked edit and previewed in both my math article Hooley's delta function and a random new page Waikato_(rangatira).

Waikato_(rangatira) took only 0.113 seconds in real time while Hooley's delta function took 4.557 seconds, almost 40 times longer. However, the 4103-byte article is less than 6 times as long as the 761-byte Waikato_(rangatira). This is definitely out of proportion.

Therefore it's easy to imagine that the 116-thousand-byte Golden ratio times out while the 87-thousand-byte 2023 Pacific typhoon season takes only 2.488 sec to preview. IntegerSequences ( talk | contribs) 03:15, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Long math pages sometimes load well on my computer but editing always fail. IntegerSequences ( talk | contribs) 03:21, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Newton's laws of motion: An error occurred while attempting to preview your changes.

Server returned error: HTTP 503. IntegerSequences ( talk | contribs) 05:14, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

An error occurred while attempting to preview your changes.

The server did not respond within the expected time. IntegerSequences ( talk | contribs) 05:16, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Please look at WP:RD/Math as it appears currently ( i.e. this) when using the default skin in a wide window so that the table of contents is a sidebar. Scroll to the bottom and you will see that the last section heading reads The meaning of ${\displaystyle f(x)/x}$. But look over at the sidebar and the table of contents shows The meaning of '"`UNIQ--postMath-00000049-QINU`"' . It ought to be possible to improve on that! -- 142.112.221.64 ( talk) 06:01, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

This is something in the direction of phab:T295091. Izno ( talk) 06:06, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Fortunately, MOS:HEAD forbids this in article space, so there shouldn't be much of these. — David Eppstein ( talk) 07:06, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

There look to be about 30 cases that should be adjusted. Izno ( talk) 07:35, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

And another 70 from the other direction. IDK how best to get <math> internal to a heading. Izno ( talk) 07:45, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Or just search for "UNIQ--postMath": [1] (127 hits). It would help if a discussion somewhere decided how to handle these with a link to the discussion in edit summaries fixing the problems. Johnuniq ( talk) 09:56, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Hey! This is serious! It's affecting an article on steam locos! -- Verbarson   ^talk _edits 11:50, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

For now, yes, I do suppose that works. Izno ( talk) 16:13, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Also, how to handle them is already prescribed in MOS:HEAD, as David identified. Izno ( talk) 16:14, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

I pointed out (fairly facetiously) that the article Victorian Railways Dd class has math markup, including using it in a section heading. I have just looked up that article in the app, and found that the infobox named "Victorian Railways ${\displaystyle \mathrm {D_{E}^{D}} }$ class" (which displays acceptably in a browser), generates a hidden box with the visible title "Quick Facts D E D {\displaystyle \mathrm {D_{{E}^{D}} }" (which, when opened, includes the correctly-rendered name). The use of math markup in the name= parameter is not covered by MOS:HEAD or mentioned in Template:Infobox. I would guess that this is a related issue. -- Verbarson   ^talk _edits 16:55, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Over the last three or four weeks, I have been presented with several different WP:CENTRALNOTICE banners. I dismiss them using the "X-in-circle" icon at the top right of the box, yet they keep on returning, sometimes several times in one day. For example, the banner reading "Join the Wikipedia Pages Wanting Photos Campaign 2023 to help improve Wikipedia articles with photos and win a prize!" (the id for which is wikipedia_wanting_photos_2023) has been shown to me three times today - twice in my session of 08:00-08:45 (UTC), and once in the session that I began at 16:45 (UTC). I can hide them all permanently by unsetting everything at Preferences → Banners, or by setting "Suppress display of all CentralNotices (To suppress only certain classes of notices use the Banners option in preferences)" at Preferences → Gadgets, but these methods then won't allow any banners to be displayed, not even new ones that I might be interested in. Short of doing this, which non-tech-savvy readers may not be happy doing, how can banners that are no longer of interest be dismissed permanently and yet still allow a completely-new banner to be displayed? -- Redrose64 🌹 ( talk) 17:34, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

For whatever reasons the image on the right doesn't appear like it actually is. Click it to open in media viewer and it is okay. On the page, it is rotated 90 degrees anti-clockwise. Not just that, the height-to-width ratio is completely flipped so that the image now looks very squeezed. I saw this happen at Songkhla but the issue appears on every page, including here and at File:Naga Head.jpg#filehistory. But scrolling to the top of file page, and it is perfectly fine. What is happening here? — CX Zoom[he/him] ^{( let's talk • { C• X})} 18:04, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

It was, I think the technical term is, screwed up. Some parts of the system thought it was rotated, and some didn't. I re-uploaded it, and after a bunch of purging, it seems to be displaying correctly. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 18:25, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much, it is fine now. — CX Zoom[he/him] ^{( let's talk • { C• X})} 19:11, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

This generally happens if different metadata systems (images can have multiple) have it marked as differing rotation. The information is then conflicting and results become unpredictable. — TheDJ ( talk • contribs) 19:11, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Just found a few more articles which appears to follow MOS:ORDER, yet the infobox is placed at the top instead of appearing after the first paragraph on mobile version. Examples inlcude Battle of Aizu, Battle of Ramillies & Falklands War. At first, I thought it is an issue with {{ Infobox military conflict}}, but then I found that articles like Battle of Pharsalus don't face the same issue. What is wrong now? — CX Zoom[he/him] ^{( let's talk • { C• X})} 19:02, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

This is in continuation to Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 206#Mobile lead image placement. — CX Zoom[he/him] ^{( let's talk • { C• X})} 19:11, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

This is because they use {{ stack}} (which is a wrapper around the infobox). — TheDJ ( talk • contribs) 19:12, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Which shouldn't cause an issue per the discussion in the archive, now that I've readded the relevant class to the container. Izno ( talk) 19:14, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Is stack within the infobox code? — CX Zoom[he/him] ^{( let's talk • { C• X})} 19:14, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Within that one's yes. Whenever you use a campaignbox. — TheDJ ( talk • contribs) 19:16, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Makes sense now. But, considering that campaignbox is not visible on mobile anyway, is it possible to selectively apply stack only on desktop mode? Maybe by using a variant of stack template that uses the same class as infoboxes, so mobile view remains consistent? — CX Zoom[he/him] ^{( let's talk • { C• X})} 19:20, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Unregistered users can not request changes that include external links. Where MediaWiki:Fancycaptcha-addurl is displayed after attempting to save a page in the editor, custom forms like Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection/Edit/Form break. The input is silently dropped. ~ ToBeFree ( talk) 00:00, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

If the JavaScript of the form can check the user's groups or privileges, it could simply drop back to the default editor whenever a lack of skipcaptcha is detected. ~ ToBeFree ( talk) 00:06, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

The right fix here is to detect if the edit API response is asking for a captcha (if so, it also provides the URL to the captcha image), show the image on the UI and ask the user to solve it; and then retry the edit API with the captchaid and captchaword fields.
We already handle this in the WP:SUBMIT script (see MediaWiki:AFC-submit-wizard.js). Someone should implement it here as well – much of the logic can be copy-pasted. – SD0001 ( talk) 08:04, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

The most recent Thursday update has changed the highlighting on mobile diffs such that instead of highlighting the whole block of text including spacing between lines, now the highlighting only goes as high as the text, leaving dark grey bars in between each line.

For some reason, this makes it way harder for my brain to read. I find myself taking more than twice as long to read a block of text, and have to reread lines frequently, almost like I'm reading it upside down. I never knew I was so dumb.

Is there any CSS I can add somewhere to revert to the old highlighting? Or alternatively, to force standard diff view on mobile? I have to swap into it about a third of the time anyway, and maybe this highlighting change is the universe's way of telling me to stop using mobile diffs altogether. Folly Mox ( talk) 11:46, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Do you have examples of diffs you find hard to read? If you can successfully illustrate the difficulty, that might help devs change their minds. Nardog ( talk) 13:53, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

I mean, I suppose I could link the most recent diff on my watchlist, Special:MobileDiff/1166429149, but my reading problem universal to all examples. It's like the dark grey bar is guiding my eye to the wrong line, and I end up reading the line I just read instead of continuing on to the next one. Folly Mox ( talk) 14:00, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Maybe something like

.mw-diff-inline-added {
	background-color: #75c877;
}

.mw-diff-inline-deleted {
	background-color: #e07076;
}

Nardog ( talk) 14:22, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! That worked. Folly Mox ( talk) 15:20, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Resolved

Folly Mox ( talk) 15:20, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

This might be related to phab:T330247 but I'm not sure. It doesn't look like anybody intentionally changed anything on mobile diffs this Thursday. Jdlrobson ( talk) 19:09, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

No changes to mobile diffs were intentional, however this change was intentional for the upcoming inline diffs for desktop. We were nervous folks wouldn't like this particular aspect, and I guess this is confirmation. Allow me to explain the logic, however; phab:T327645 is the relevant task. As you can see, the concern was that the background extending across to the other edge could be misinterpreted as added newlines, or at the very least, is indistinguishable from someone who added a bunch of spaces that happened to stretch across. I hope my explanation makes sense.

I wasn't able to find a happy medium where we use inline elements (fixing the aforementioned issue) but also retaining the background color between each line of text. It might be possible, but assuming it's not, which do you think is better? cc @ Folly Mox but inviting input from everyone.

I should note that there will soon hopefully be less confusion on where newlines are, as we will clearly indicate those ( phab:T330247).

We'd love to hear any feedback you have, either about the issue brought up here or any of the Better Diffs project. In the meantime, we'll likely revert the recent change that effected mobile diffs. We can get that deployed as soon as Monday. Apologies for the inconvenience, MusikAnimal (WMF) ( talk) 21:50, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

User:MusikAnimal (WMF) please don't apologise to me or allow my personal experience to guide development. I'm just one data point, and my brain is super weird. ^{original research?} It may very well be the case that this is a total non-issue or even improvement for literally everyone else. I notice there are (carriage return symbol) newline elements in the inline diffs now, which seems like it might help solve the issue. I have unrelated suggestions I'll drop off at the meta page in a moment. Folly Mox ( talk) 22:13, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Oops just kidding the meta page is just about paragraph breaks, and I don't really know how to interact with phabricator. My suggestion was to remove - and = from the list of characters that are interpreted as word breaks, so inline diffs showing changes in templates look less garbled. Folly Mox ( talk) 22:22, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure if I'm seeing the same, but I struggle reading the new diffs too to the point where I cannot finish reading a relatively small diff like Special:MobileDiff/1166705972. I don't see dark grey lines between the green highlighting, but white lines. As such, the contrast between green and text is less than the contrast between white and green. I think this can only work with quite a light green colour. User:MusikAnimal (WMF), thanks for considering rolling it back. —Femke 🐦 ( talk) 07:49, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks all for the feedback! I think we may have found that happy medium with gerrit:940995. If all goes as planned it will land here on English Wikipedia this Thursday. MusikAnimal (WMF) ( talk) 22:18, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

You can see a few screenshots of how the diffs will look afterwards at T327645#9039600. Matma Rex talk 22:38, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello. I posted my question in Teahouse and they redirected me here since this place has many professionals regarding technical questions. I have question regarding visual editing. I specialize in filmography editing and I noticed a slight problem. Whenever I am adding info through source editing and I want to look how it looks through visual editing, It wont let me. I click visual editing button when I am in source editing domain and it doesnt work. I dont know whether this is bug or new update, but after Thursday, it doesnt work. I can look through "preview" but its annoying since I cant fix anything right on spot. So if you have any tips or info, I will be glad. Ps, Im editing on Android and mostly on Google Chrome. Kesseder ( talk) 16:56, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Do you have an example of a section where this has happened? What exactly happens when you click "Visual editing"? (Any error message, does the progress bar show up, etc.) Is "Use the wikitext mode inside the visual editor, instead of a different wikitext editor" in Preferences on? Nardog ( talk) 22:05, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Basically, nothing happens when i click visual editing. Source editing works normally. For example, I want to change something in source code and I want to see how it looks (through visual editing), it wont let me, the button is not working for me. I click it and nothing happens (no error, no message). I tried it even on my editor through my user page, I write something on source editing domain, i cant see how it looks visually, so I dont know whether this is something new (like update) or its bug, but its confusing and annoying for me. Thx in advance for any additional info Kesseder ( talk) 22:49, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

It's indeed a bug introduced last week, and affecting the mobile editor only: T342490. Sorry about that; hopefully it will be fixed soon. In the meantime, if you can bear it, try editing using the desktop editor (you can access it on mobile devices by the "Desktop" link in the page footer, and switch back using the "Mobile view" link in the footer). Matma Rex talk 22:50, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Opinion polling for the 2023 Spanish general election § What happened to the References?. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 22:29, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Does anyone know of a work-around for this problem? I came across it via WP:THQ#Weirdly referenced article, but I have no real idea as to how to best fix it. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 22:33, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

You have run over the transclusion limit. The only fix is to transclude less content. I've used the bare reference tag as a start. Removing the use of {{ font}} would be the next place to work on the problem. Izno ( talk) 23:04, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

You should also consider not having a 600k article. That would be the other issue. Use some editorial discretion to remove old or insignificant data. Having poll results from 2018 for an election not occurring until this year is somewhere in the realm of unnecessary, at best. Izno ( talk) 23:26, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

I appreciate the feedback Izno, and your fix has made things better but there's still an issue. FWIW, I only came across the problem via a Teahouse question. I haven't edited the article other than to add a {{ Very long}} template to its top. Before asking about this here, I posted {{ Please see}} messages on various Wikipedia Project talk pages and also a few times on the article's talk page, but that's been the extent of my involvement. So, the "you" in this case is not "me", but rather all of the others who've been expanding the article, and continue to expand the article even after your "fix". Would you mind if I copied-and-pasted your above comments onto the article's talk page? Is there a way to WP:PP the article to temporarily stop it from being further expanded until the issue can be resolved through discussion on the talk page? -- Marchjuly ( talk) 03:14, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

I have no problem with copy-pasting. Page-protection is not supported, however. Izno ( talk) 04:25, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

I see you did a WP:SPINOUT, which seems like a good technical solution. However, these articles may run afoul of WP:NOTSTATS. Articles should be mostly prose and references. Whenever we have a situation where an article is mostly stats, that is a red flag. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 08:22, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

@ Novem Linguae: The SPINOUT was done by one of the main contributors to the article, not myself. That seems to have resolved the TLIMIT issue. Quite a lot of the {{ font}} templates were removed by a different user and that too seem to resolve the problem, but that edit was reverted and the article was then spun off. I don't have much experience in the editing of these articles and perhaps the intention is to eventually add more prose; so, I guess any NOSTATS concerns and anything else probably should be raised on the article's talk page. Finally, thanks to you and everyone else who responded here or on the article's talk page, and helped sort this out. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 00:19, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

MediaWiki message delivery 02:18, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

The image File:City of Yellowknife CoA.svg is the emblem of the City of Yellowknife and is protected by copyright until 2050 because it is protected by Canada's Crown Copyright Act (meaning the image cannot be exported to Wikimedia Commons until 2050). Currently the image is only used in the article introducing the city of Yellowknife, but another article Coat of arms of Yellowknife introduced the design of the logo in detail, so I need to use this fair use image in an article that is closer to its theme. Fumikas Sagisavas ( talk) 04:09, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi Fumikas Sagisavas. For future reference, it's generally better to ask questions of this nature at Wikipedia:Media Copyright Questions since this noticeboard is more for asking technical related questions about things Wikipedia. I'm guessing your question is related to this edit made to Coat of arms of Yellowknife by JJMC89 bot, but please clarify if it's not. That particular bot has been tasked with looking for non-free files being used in a manner that doesn't comply with Wikipedia non-free content use criterion #10c. Each use of a non-free file is required to meet all ten of the non-free content use criteria listed here. One of these criteria (more specifically one part of one of these criteria) is #10c, which states that a separate, specific non-free content use rationale which clearly indicates where the file is being used and how its use satisfies the aforementioned 10 criteria be provided on the file's page for each use of the file. Since there is no rationale for the file's use in the COA article on the file's page, the bot removed the file and left an edit summary linking to WP:NFC#Implementation explaining why. If you feel the file's non-free use in the COA article complies with relevant Wikipedia policy, you should add a non-free use rationale for the file's use in the COA article to the file's page and then re-add the file to the article. This should stop the bot from removing the file. There are, however, a couple of things to consider before you do that.

The first one is that adding a non-free use rationale for a particular use doesn't automatically mean the use is policy compliant as explained here; the use needs to clearly meet all 10 criteria for it to be considered valid. This can be tricky when it comes to COAs per WP:FREER because the written description of the COA (i.e. the blazon) is generally not considered to be eligible for copyright protection and it's only the graphic representations of that description (i.e. the emblazon) which tend to be protected by copyright. In other words, a free equivalent version of COA might be possible for someone to create by following the instructions given in the blazon.

The next thing is that it's not clear why a stand-alone article is needed for that particular COA. At first glance, the COA doesn't seem to meet any of Wikipedia's notability guidelines to justify a stand-alone article. The content about the COA might encyclopedically relevant enough to include as a section in the article about the city, but it might not be enough to warrant its own separate article. So, you might be better off asking about such things at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillology because that's where you're likely going to find Wikipedians interested in and more familiar with articles about COAs. One of the members of that WikiProject might be able to help answer both questions about the file's non-free use and about the Wikipedia notability of the COA. Once the COAs notability has been sorted out, figuring out how to best add the image can be discussed. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 05:51, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Moved to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard § Massive wide-ranging IP block on Airtel India users

 – JBW ( talk) 17:58, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

I get notified when a new incoming link is created to a disambiguation page I created. Is there a way to do the same for groups of dab pages? I. e., can I watch a list of pages for new incoming links? Paradoctor ( talk) 21:02, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

@ Paradoctor: There is a daily(ish) Disambiguation pages with links report. For a more targetted list, you could run a regular SQL such as User:Certes/Reports/Ambiguous rail links. If the dab is at the base name – Mercury rather than Venus (disambiguation) – then you can probably list all incoming links rather than just new ones, as existing links should get diverted via a redirect per WP:INTDAB. Certes ( talk) 21:31, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

@ Certes Not quite what I had in mind, but the Toolforge report will do. Thanks!

Related Changes does not show new incoming links, only changes to the pages themselves.

Is there a reason there is no bot task that reroutes direct links to dab pages without primary topic? Would seem a no-brainer, IYAM. Paradoctor ( talk) 21:46, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Reroutes them how? How should the bot no where to reroute them to? * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 21:50, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

A few links to Mercury are deliberate and could be rerouted to Mercury (disambiguation), perhaps even by bot, but we can't tell them from the larger pool of accidental links such as Mercury orbits the Sun or Oxides of mercury which should go to Mercury (planet), Mercury (element), etc. Certes ( talk) 22:01, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Right. Brain fart. Ironically, that is the very problem I wanted this for. 🤦

Moving along. Paradoctor ( talk) 22:46, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

There's a whole WikiProject sorting these links out as they appear, not to mention another one sorting out links to the wrong article (The Romans worshipped Venus rather than Venus (mythology), etc.) Certes ( talk) 00:02, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Per title, thank you Darkwarriorblake ( talk) 14:34, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

{{ cite av media}} Izno ( talk) 15:24, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

I tried that but as far as I can see if I want to cite one video with different timestamps I have to source it in full each time? Darkwarriorblake ( talk) 15:59, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Use {{ cite av media}} in the Works cited section, and link to it with {{ sfn}} using "|loc=time stamp" rather than the "|p=" parameter. Templates like {{ sfn}} or {{ harv}} aren't valid references on their own, they need to link to a cite containing the full details. That's why you have to have the {{ cite av media}} as well. If you have questions about specific examples feel free to ask on my talk page. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆ transmissions∆ ° co-ords° 18:44, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

If you've activated article-link popups, mouse over a link to Rail transport in Laos and you're informed that "Laos has of standard-gauge railways, primarily..." Visit the article, and you read that "Laos has 422 km (262 mi) of 1,435 mm (4 ft 8+1⁄2 in) standard gauge railways, primarily..."

I understand the importance of removing parenthetical details from popups, but is there a way to include numbers by default? Ideally, the popup would say "Laos has 422 km of 1,435 mm standard gauge railways, primarily..." Presumably, the point of popups is to get a brief preview of an article without visiting it, so when an omission makes the popup look like a mistake ("has of"), something ought to be modified. Nyttend ( talk) 21:37, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

A very old bug / feature: templates, or most templates, are excluded from rendering of the pop-up window. See T152639 for some discussion. I think, but I am not sure, that selecting "Enable page previews" from the Appearance preference tab and disabling the pop-ups gadget may work better for you. I don't use either of them, but I just turned on page previews, and the convert template renders fine. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 22:20, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Navigation popups at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets works on the source wikitext and doesn't transclude templates. You can say window.popupPreviewKillTemplates = false; in your common JavaScript to show the wikitext of template calls but they cannot be transcluded and you will often get a lot of code. The default "Enable page previews" at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering works on the rendered page and does show transclusions. PrimeHunter ( talk) 01:08, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

When I mouse over your link above, I see: ""Laos has 422 km (262 mi) of 1,435 mm standard gauge railways, primarily...", i.e, it's doing the first one but not the second one, and given what's been said so far, I'm not sure why I'm seeing that, but I am. I checked the article, and no one has changed it since you wrote. Mathglot ( talk) 01:47, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

You're using the now-"standard" popups. There is a gadget which is basically ancient that does things much differently as a result of its age. We're talking about the second one. (See PrimeHunter's link.) Izno ( talk) 01:57, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Oh, thanks for that explanation. Mathglot ( talk) 02:05, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Can somebody point me at the source repository (and, ideally, the source file) for the parser responsible for processing reply comments on Talk pages? I'd like to take a swing at convincing it to not automatically indent reply lines while inside <syntaxhighlight>...</syntaxhighlight> tags, because man is having to fix that getting really old. FeRDNYC ( talk) 02:34, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Repo is https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-DiscussionTools. Most relevant file is probably https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-DiscussionTools/blob/master/includes/CommentUtils.php. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 02:55, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Phab ticket is probably this one: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251633 – Novem Linguae ( talk) 05:24, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Moved from Wikipedia talk:Categories for discussion/Working

Some pages are stuck in this category after move. They are obviously added there by some template, but I can not find which one. Could someone help please. Thanks. Ymblanter ( talk) 15:32, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

@ Ymblanter: This should have been posted at WP:VPT, not here. I fixed a wrong category name in Template:Fandom content; if that doesn't work, see Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_204#Pages_lingering_in_a_renamed_category_that_was_populated_by_a_template.. – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 18:08, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, this seems to work. Ymblanter ( talk) 18:11, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Note: this post was moved from Wikipedia talk:Categories for discussion/Working and was cut-and-pasted to this page in this edit. Just clarifying what was meant by "not here". Graham 87 07:08, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Have I misremembered it, or do we have a template for our event pages (for meeetups, editathons, etc.) that generates an iCalendar file which users can use to add the event to their calender?

If not, could someone make one?

Or was it perhaps a toolserver page? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:26, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

@ Pigsonthewing Meta has m:Template:Multi Calendar for Google and Outlook calendar links, but I don't recall seeing anything similar for iCalendar. the wub "?!" 21:36, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

May have been thinking of https://events.toolforge.org ? — TheresNoTime ( talk • they/them) 21:48, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

@ Pigsonthewing: I attempted to add icalendar to toolforge:mediawiki-feeds but it relies on h-event microformat markup on event pages, and doesn't do very well. Sam Wilson 00:39, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, all. The template on Meta is what I was thinking of. It is good, but could be developed further such as the inclusion of timezones (now that we have so mny online events). The functionality is sorely eneed on this and other projects. Would anyone be inetrested in working with me to develop it? @ WOSlinker and Jdforrester: who were invlved in the original template or its subtemplates. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:11, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

My watchlist has started to behave oddly. Entries are no longer collapsed, with a blue triangle next to each title in order to expand it. Instead, there is a blue circle next to each title, and all changes appear with no possibility of collapsing items. This makes viewing the watchlist cumbersome, particularly if there are many changes to any one page.

This behaviour has only started today; previously the page worked as intended. And when I open the watchlist, it very briefly displays correctly, then automatically expands all entries. I have not made any changes to my settings or preferences. RolandR ( talk) 20:57, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

@ RolandR:  Works for me. Try this: at Preferences → Recent changes, unset "Group changes by page in recent changes and watchlist" and save; then set it again and save. -- Redrose64 🌹 ( talk) 21:21, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

No, that doesn't make any difference. RolandR ( talk) 21:26, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Mine's behaving strangely on my laptop. I have user:js/watchlist.js, which enables the sorting of watchlist. When I go on my watchlist, it first loads [2], then when the sorting arrows would appear, the box disappears entirely [3].

If I'm on my desktop, things behave normally (actually, there's a different issue there, every collapsed list of changes is expanded Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 08:12, 21 July 2023 (UTC)). I can't find any differences in configuration on either of my computer, both use the same browser (Firefox, same version). Maybe it's related? Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 21:40, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

broken for me; vector; win 10; chrome

preferences:

• Special:Preferences § mw-prefsection-rc: Group changes by page in recent changes and watchlist → checked
• Special:Preferences § mw-prefsection-watchlist:

• Expand watchlist to show all changes, not just the most recent → checked
• Use non-JavaScript interface → checked

• Special:Preferences § mw-prefsection-gadgets: Watchlist: all default options checked except Geonotice

watchlist displays gray collapse arrows even when new, unvisited changes are present in the collapsed list; this despite "Display green collapsible arrows and green bullets for changed pages in your watchlist, page history and recent changes (unavailable with the improved Watchlist user interface)" (quoted from gadgets:Watchlist; a system default; and I am not using the 'improved' watchlist interface).

This smells like a someone deciding to fix something that was not broken.

— Trappist the monk ( talk) 21:46, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

It's started earlier in the week for me. I want to say Monday ish, but it could have been +/- a few days before/after. Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 21:53, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Does the issue happen with mw:Manual:Safemode? Jdlrobson ( talk) 02:02, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

When not in safe mode ( /info/en/?search=Special:Watchlist), at the top of the watchlist this: "Pages that have been changed since you last visited them are shown with a green marker." This is partially true; the expand/collapse arrow markers are always gray; never green as they should be when there are unvisited changes hidden inside the collapsed watchlist entry. Earlier on Thursday, the expand/collapse arrow markers were green when unvisited changes were hidden inside the collapsed watchlist entry. The markers for unvisited single-watchlist entries (only one edit so no need for a collapse) are green bullets; after visiting a green-marker-change, the marger goes gray (this is as it should be and has been for as long as I can remember).

When in safe mode ( /info/en/?search=Special:Watchlist?safemode=1), at the top of the watchlist this: "Pages that have been changed since you last visited them are shown in bold with a green marker." Pages that have changed since my last visit are shown in bold. There are no the green bullet markers for unvisited single-watchlist-entries and no gray bullet markers for visited single-watchlist-entries. The expand/collapse arrow markers are always gray regardless of the bold (unvisited) or not-bold (visited) changes in the watch list. So, yes, a variant of the issue happens in safe mode.

— Trappist the monk ( talk) 03:08, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

are shown with a green marker is a customization specific to English Wikipedia and should not be expected in safe mode. Izno ( talk) 04:37, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I've suddenly started seeing different behavior as well, within the last hour or two. Mathglot ( talk) 08:36, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

I'm seeing this problem in Timeless but not in any other skin. I have the following preferences enabled: expand watchlist to show all changes, use non-Javascript interface, group changes by page. I've tried unsetting and resetting these as suggested above, but it makes no difference; also makes no difference whether Javascript is on or off.

Yesterday's WP:THURSDAY update includes the following:

git #9bf98ab9 - EnhancedChangesList: Use HTML/CSS for collapsing ( task T172618) by Fomafixgit

Might this be relevant? Sojourner in the earth ( talk) 09:30, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Yes, that's probably it. It removes a few class names and changes some element types that were likely being used for some of the above customizations. Izno ( talk) 16:11, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Is anyone doing anything about this? What's the next step? Dan Bloch ( talk) 13:30, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

I found this bug report. It's probably better to move discussion there (you can log in to Phabricator with your Wikimedia password). Sojourner in the earth ( talk) 06:34, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Is there a solution fot this yet? RolandR ( talk) 10:29, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

The latest update from Phabricator is that a fix will be rolled out next week (probably Thursday). Sojourner in the earth ( talk) 05:01, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

For me, the unwanted behaviour only occurs when refreshing; clicking the Watchlist link or navigating via a browser bookmark works normally. If you usually keep your watchlist open and refresh it occasionally, it's worth trying another way. Certes ( talk) 17:50, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

I intended to correct a typo that I found when I made a typo doing a search. But when I checked the ref, the typo was in the title. So I tried to add "sic" so it would be clear that this didn't need to be corrected. Didn't work. — Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 22:36, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Not a WP:VPT topic. Most typos like that should simply be silently corrected. See MOS:TYPOFIX.

— Trappist the monk ( talk) 23:09, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

I am looking for a template solution, which is a WP:VPT topic. I was given one on my talk page which I will post here.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 17:59, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Copied from User talk:Vchimpanzee:

It has been suggested that these be simply corrected however many editors don't like such corrections being made. The best argument I have seen not to make corrections is that someone may wish to use the original text as a search string. Consequently if there have been corrections to faulty spelling then this makes such searching problematic. What I do on ref titles is use an alias of 'notatypo' which is 'as written'. Personally I feel that when a misspelled word has this or say a 'sic' template applied then the word should be obfuscated, always. So, I would typically apply the template as follows {{as written|rec|ieve [sic]}}. This entry format does not cause issues with the CS1/2 template formats which is what the 'sic' template does. You will see here a warning requesting that the sic template not be used in CS1/2 formats (.....because it includes markup that will pollute the COinS metadata.). Regards, Neils51 ( talk) 10:18, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

If the typo is in the original, then the typo should be reproduced. You can add a comment like Ice craem<!-- typo in original --> is toxic, says researcher. Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 21:46, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

You can use {{sic|nolink=y|reason=error in source|speling eror}} inside ref templates or references. Please don't obfuscate the spelling errors, as it causes extra time wasting, that would be avoided with a [sic] attached. Another thing to watch out is whether the digitised or index web page has the error, but the original does not. If a scan of the original is available then you can use that correct title, if it is correct. Graeme Bartlett ( talk) 22:52, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Vchimpanzee, you can insert brackets in displayed text with the right character entity reference. Years ago, when I wrote List of Indiana state historical markers in Parke County, I used the state's "official names" of the markers in question, and one of them had brackets. The code [[Parke County Museum|&#91;Parke County Museum&#93;]] produces [Parke County Museum], so I suspect that inserting &#91;sic&#93; into your typo string will work in your template. Nyttend ( talk) 21:44, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Yes, 'sic' with 'nolink=y' will work however some editors will point out that within the sic template documentation there is a warning not to use 'sic' in CS1/CS2 citation templates. Good luck with arguing that one. Time wasting? yes, when tools pickup non-obfuscated misspellings. Neils51 ( talk) 13:08, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

• I think it's really bad to fix typos in reference titles: the whole point of specifying a ref title instead of just a bare URL is that people can use it to find the ref in the event that the URL is inaccessible. jp× g 17:20, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Sorry to be a double poster. Randomly today the text size of articles here and some other sites (but not many) has randomy changed, making the body text small and the references bigger. It seems to be primarily body text and references because it's not affecting media captions, bullet pointed cast lists, infoboxes, TOC, or External Links. I've tried resetting Edge to default and I've tried futzing with the options under Appearance but i can't make the text normal while simultaneously shrinking the references back down and because the refs are larger it creates extra line space between text. I don't have any custom CSS apart from additions to display error messages, does anyone have any idea how I can fix it? It's absolutely Edge because it looks normal under Firefox. Darkwarriorblake ( talk) 21:15, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Are you in Mobile view by mistake? That's a strange one. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 22:58, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

No definitely not, it is on the original Vector 2010 skin as I'm not a fan of the new one. Darkwarriorblake ( talk) 08:28, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Is the zoom level normal? Does changing it help? Which version of Edge are you running? Does logging out fix it? (if you want to test vector2010 while you're logged out click here) -- Chris 08:46, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

The zoom level is 100%, I tried logging out but it did the same thing. What I have noticed on this discussion is that my initial text is small, but the subsequent responses, being indented, are normal size. It's bizarre, like it has to be some form of CSS change, I can't think what else would specifically affect only certain text, but it's the same across other websites. Darkwarriorblake ( talk) 09:56, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

My guess. Its a browser extension. Try starting up your browser without extensions (safe mode). — TheDJ ( talk • contribs) 17:44, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Nope not that either, removed everything, I only wish I could uninstall Edge and start from scratch. I don't want the hassle of switching browsers but it's bizarre why it's doing this. Darkwarriorblake ( talk) 21:07, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Also for further info, if I refresh the page I can see for an instant that the text is normal before it's switched to small, it's some kind of setting actively changing it. Darkwarriorblake ( talk) 21:10, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

That's called a flash of unstyled content, and is the surest sign that it's some CSS somewhere that's to blame for all this. FeRDNYC ( talk) 01:29, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

@ Darkwarriorblake: You don't have any custom CSS, but is any weird CSS being applied to the content? Hit F12 when you're on a page with weirdly-sized content and see what CSS rules the inspector is showing for that text, then chase those rules back to their source (wherever it may be). FeRDNYC ( talk) 01:27, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Brill idea FeRDNYC, I looked (I'm not an expert), and this is what I get. The first is text in the bulleted lists which to me appears normal, the second is the text in < p > which is the one that appears small.

   vector-body 
   font-size: 0.875em;
   font-size: calc(1em * 0.875);
   line-height: 1.6;
   
   vector-body 
   font-size: 0.875em;
   font-size: calc(1em * 0.875);
   line-height: 1.6;
   
   font-size: 12px;

It says P is inherited from vector-body which has this:

   font-size: 0.875em;
   font-size: calc(1em * 0.875);
   line-height: 1.6;
   

I can't see what is cancelling out the font-size: calc in the 2nd example apart from the use of font-size: 12px. Darkwarriorblake ( talk) 08:22, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

The font-size: 12px may be the cuplrit. Can you see what file it is getting that styling from (there should be urls on the right hand side)? -- Chris 09:50, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

I realized I can untick the 12px and it does change the font size in < p > although it's not affecting the oversized references and I can't see any font-size related info attached to those elements. I've uploaded this PDF with some screenshots of what I can see ( https://file.io/fNKU2XFgqLyK) but I cannot see anywhere to follow the 12px back to its source? Darkwarriorblake ( talk) 10:23, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

The link says file deleted. -- Chris 11:54, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Weird, I've not used file.io before but it said it lasts for 2 weeks. https://filebin.net/e0293isw71zu6uy0 Darkwarriorblake ( talk) 15:11, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Does the system where this is occurring have a HiDPI ^[a] screen, by any chance, Darkwarriorblake? Typically, on displays with more-than-HD resolution, screen elements get scaled so that any measure expressed in raw numbers of pixels will actually represent a greater number of true, physical pixels. (Because everything would be far too tiny to see, if length values were taken literally.) If Edge is on a scaled display, but its font rendering isn't being scaled for some reason, that might cause a greater-than-usual disparity between font sizes expressed in pixels (like 12px) and ones expressed using other units (like 0.875em), and that disparity could be why you're seeing text rendered at unexpected sizes (in both directions).

But as far as other text, like references, goes... Actually, when you say "references" are larger than normal, what are you referring to? The references list at the end of the article? The small footnote markers^{[like this]} within the body text? Or something else?

...Regardless, every piece of content has at least some minimal CSS associated with it; if nothing else the browser has a baseline set of default styles that will always be applied. (Though it's possible a setting in the inspector is hiding those by default.)

Style rules are technically applied to HTML elements (tags, basically), rather than the text within those tags, so to find the CSS that governs some text you often have to examine whatever is the most immediate enclosing HTML element. (In Wikipedia content that will usually be a pair of <p>...</p>, <li>...</li>, <span>...</span>, or sometimes <div>...</div> tags. Or, inside of a <table>...</table>, the actual text content will be enclosed in, and styled by, the inner <th>...</th> and <td>...</td> tags.) FeRDNYC ( talk) 02:28, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

It's only 1920 x 1980, not sure what the max resolution is but the monitor has been fine for a year. It's definitely something in the browser but I can't get rid of the bloody thing to start afresh. I think I will just have to switch browsers. In terms of references I mean the in-line ones, the numbers/letters. Darkwarriorblake ( talk) 19:49, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

{{ WPBHUTAN}} is throwing up some malformed content on Talk:Bhutanese passport. The template itself hasn't been edited in years minus a single edit this year and it of course relies on a million modules and templates, so trying to suss out what is happening here is too difficult for ignorant me. Can someone figure out how to fix this? Thanks. ― Justin (koavf)❤ T☮ C☺ M☯ 04:13, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

@ Koavf, I assume this is related to MSGJ's work. —  Qwerfjkl talk 07:49, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Do you see it impacting anything else or just this one-off? ― Justin (koavf)❤ T☮ C☺ M☯ 07:51, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

The project's custom importance mask was emitting an extra space which was confusing the template. I've fixed it now — Martin ( MSGJ ·  talk) 10:21, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Merci. ― Justin (koavf)❤ T☮ C☺ M☯ 10:25, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

My refresh-links bot has stumbled on a couple of titles that it can't refresh.

• fat:An Appreciation of a Misunderstood Ingredient, with Recipes (redirect page)
  • This is one of the Pages that link to " Fat (cookbook)"
  • There are problems with some of your input. fat:An Appreciation of a Misunderstood Ingredient, with Recipes is an interwiki title, should be local.
  • Its talk page: Bad title. The requested page title refers to a talk page that cannot exist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wbm1058 ( talk • contribs) 12:28, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
• fat:The Fight of My Life, which is probably an article about this 2013 TV series

Can anyone tell what this fat: project is for and when it was created?

How to recover the two English wiki pages, one of which is a redirect and the other appears to be an article?

I know I should probably make a Phabricator about this, but starting here since that's easier and less bureaucratic. wbm1058 ( talk) 12:22, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

• The article looked like this on 30 November 2016 and was never scraped again by archive.org, so it may have been deleted (I wouldn't be surprised, looking at the state of it). Black Kite (talk) 12:57, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

  The language is Fante dialect, btw. Black Kite (talk) 13:04, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

• fat is listed at Special:Interwiki but not at m:Interwiki map, so was presumably created in the last four days. -- Redrose64 🌹 ( talk) 13:01, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
  • Links to other language versions are automatically generated by the software, so those are not listed on m:Interwiki map. Taavi ( talk!) 13:12, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
• fat: is now the interwiki prefix for the Fante language Wikipedia, which was created in April. Using the page move API and page IDs queried from the replicas I moved those pages to Fat – An Appreciation of a Misunderstood Ingredient, with Recipes and Fat – The Fight of My Life following the convention at Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(technical_restrictions)#Colons. Taavi ( talk!) 13:10, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
  • I was just about to create a new thread about this. The aforementioned page moves did not seem to include the talk pages, so [[Talk:Fat: An Appreciation of a Misunderstood Ingredient, with_Recipes]] and [[Talk:Fat: The Fight of My Life]] are also facing the same issue. Pinging Taavi. ✗ plicit 13:51, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

    Done, thanks. Taavi ( talk!) 14:04, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

This made me curious - as of the most recent database dump, there are ~5300 mainspace pages on enwiki that match the pattern XYZ: Something or XYZ:Something, with ~650 different three-letter groups. Of those, 2059 are mos:, 558 cat:, 457 std:, 241 atp:, and 128 csi: - the rest are used under 50 times and more than half are only used once.

There is an incubator wiki for Mooré (mos:) and it is plausible it will be assigned at some point in the future - it seems to be reasonably active. Might be worth thinking now about how we plan to address this, since I think our use of things like MOS:NUMBERS is pretty prolific.

The other frequently used ones are less likely to become an issue - cat: is Catalan and for historic reasons we use ca:, while std: ( Sentinelese) and atp: ( Pudtol Atta) have very few speakers, and csi: ( Coast Miwok) is now extinct. Andrew Gray ( talk) 14:03, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

One additional check: fat: seems to be the only prefix on Special:Interwiki that has colliding enwiki page titles, and it was only the two that have been fixed here, so we don't have any others out there waiting to trip us up. For the moment... Andrew Gray ( talk) 14:20, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

I did have to fix some incoming links which didn't show up on "what links here". Gonnym ( talk) 14:26, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

There's also f:, which is about to become an interwiki prefix for Wikifunctions, and conflicts with three redirects. See phab:T325908 * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 14:36, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

The renderings of File:Fat, An Appreciation of a Misunderstood Ingredient, with Recipes cover.jpg and Template:Did you know nominations/Fat: An Appreciation of a Misunderstood Ingredient, with Recipes are mildly broken. Certes ( talk) 14:49, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

I fixed them both. -- Redrose64 🌹 ( talk) 15:03, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

As a result of CfD discussion, the categories like Category:Userspace drafts from October 2006 are to be merged into the newly created Category:Userspace drafts from before 2007. The problem is that these categories are populated by {{ userspace draft}}, which, in its turn, calls {{ DMC}}. I tried to modify the code but I do not see an easy way for me to do this. Could somebody please help? Thanks a lot. Ymblanter ( talk) 08:15, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

I also posted a similar request at wikipedia:Requested_templates#Merging_monthly_maintenance_categories_for_early_dates. – Fayenatic London 09:33, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Done by Pppery, thanks. Ymblanter ( talk) 17:32, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Haven't heard anything about this for a while, but as far as I can tell, the little oopsie-woozie from a few months ago seems to still be in full force (graphs are not rendering properly anywhere). Does anyone know what the deal is on this, or what progress is being made? Or what issues need to be resolved to move forward? jp× g 17:18, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Yes, still broken. See mw:Extension:Graph/Plans * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 17:25, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Do we have a timeline or any idea when they may be back up? We can't just keep saying "temporarily" forever. InfiniteNexus ( talk) 17:57, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

No. But feel free to change (or request an admin to change) MediaWiki:Graph-disabled to remove the "temporarily" if you think it doesn't belong. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 18:01, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

@ JPxG: Graphs are not broken, they are deliberately disabled because a security issue was found (there are several threads in Archive 205 and Archive 206 on the matter). At the time that they were disabled, thry were working as normsl. There is more at phab:T334940, to which you can comment or subscribe. -- Redrose64 🌹 ( talk) 10:43, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

What I mean by "busted" is that previously a software package could be used for its intended purpose, and now it cannot. Similarly, I would call a drill press "busted" if it had a wiring fault that electrocuted the operator when turned on, regardless of whether the motor was still able to rotate the spindle. jp× g 20:49, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

To provide an alternative, at Category:Orphaned articles, I added plain horizontal bar graphs for tracking to help with WP Orphan. You're welcome to use something like this elsewhere to visually show progress. Regards, JoeNMLC ( talk) 21:12, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

In this collapsed table, the currently ongoing World Championship in Women's football is at bottom. Because it is held in 2 countries 2 flags are shown. The 2 flags are placed horizontally thus widening the column. I would like to place them vertically to reduce the column width, but I don't want the text "2023 WC" to follow either of those flags. Is there any way I can get "2023 WC" to stay vertically aligned centrally next to the flags? Dutchy45 ( talk) 05:52, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

@ Dutchy45: Columns might work but maybe read oddly in screen readers, and be a bit odd in general. I used style="position: relative; top: -0.7em;". [4] It's centered in my browser but may not be exact in all circumstances. PrimeHunter ( talk) 09:31, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Please delete the overrides for these three localisation messages. They were created a while ago as a workaround for the bug T301203, which has since been fixed, but global interface editors such as myself and Jon aren't able to delete pages. They result in incorrect formatting in some error messages: for example, when you can't move a page (try viewing Special:MovePage/Test while logged out), it says "You do not have permission to Move" instead of "You do not have permission to move this page". These three are the only inconsistent messages (see [5]). Matma Rex talk 10:50, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

@ Matma Rex:  Done — TheresNoTime ( talk • they/them) 11:17, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

What's the quickest way to determine the current protection level of a page? An admin can click "change protection" and the resulting page shows the current protection level (at least on Wiktionary), but what is a non-admin to do? The best method I've found so far is the "View logs for this page" link on the "View history" tab, but for e.g. Fascism, determining the current level requires working out whether the latest entry in that log reflects the current state, which in this case it doesn't: the latest entry there was removing Pending Changes protection, but the page is not unprotected: if I look further down the history, past some visibility changes that don't affect the protection level, I see where years earlier in the log, autoconfirmed protection was applied and has not expired because it was indefinite — on other pages, where protection was for a definite period, I have to compare the expiry date to the current date and UTC time to check if it's still in effect. And for entries like Gamergate (harassment campaign), the log just says the protection was moved, without even saying what it was or is. Is there a page or magic word that just returns something like "the following protection level(s) currently apply to page X: 'autoconfirmed', 'pending changes'"? -sche ( talk) 22:55, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Click "Page information" on the sidebar. Nardog ( talk) 22:59, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

User:Bradv/Scripts/Superlinks is a nice user script for this. It adds some links to the top right of all pages. One of them is "Log" so you can see who did the protection, what level, and when, and also the protection history. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 23:07, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Aha! Thank you both! -sche ( talk) 23:54, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

@ -sche: See also WP:PF - for example,

• {{PROTECTIONLEVEL:edit|Fascism}} → autoconfirmed
• {{PROTECTIONEXPIRY:edit|Fascism}} → infinity
• {{PROTECTIONLEVEL:move|Fascism}} → autoconfirmed
• {{PROTECTIONEXPIRY:move|Fascism}} → infinity

Mind, if a page name is supplied (as above), these count as "expensive" per mw:Help:Magic words#Parser functions. -- Redrose64 🌹 ( talk) 10:32, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Also note that non-admins can still view the admin page, which can sometimes be a relatively easy option. For example: Special:Protect/Fascism. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 21:49, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Oh, that's very useful, thank you! I had considered suggesting that in the same way a user has the option to "view source" even when the normal "edit" button is gone due to page protection, it might be useful to have a "view protection" button even when the user is not an admin and so cannot "change protection"; it's great to know that such a functionality already exists! Since there wasn't a button, I didn't think to try navigating to it manually. -sche ( talk) 00:31, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

This method has another advantage, which is that it also shows the Pending Changes (PC) level which might not appear elsewhere. Compare Special:Protect/1984 with Special:PageInfo/1984 (including the logs). I think it should head for the type of functionality you see at Special:UserRights, which differs far more depending on whether you're an admin. We link that in the side bar. For some wikis it may be appropriate (and easy) to link protection there, but I don't think it's worthwhile here. Still, it's a handy link to know. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 12:51, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

I was helping a new editor yesterday at an edit-a-thon. It was really an eye-opening experience as to just how steep the learning curve is.

The immediate problem was that she had written a first draft in MS Word, then copy-pasted it into her sandbox. Not surprisingly, it made a total mess of the formatting. This seems like a common enough scenario that we really should be able to do better. Is there a tool to take a MS Word file and import it, converting the formatting into some reasonable wiki markup? RoySmith (talk) 15:18, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

VE does a good job at it. I made a quick test to make sure: User:Nux/test_office.

One problem is doing proper formatting in Word or other office software. In my experience as an IT guy, with quite a lot of documents passing through my hands back in the days, people don't do formatting. They do bold instead of proper headers. They do all kinds of marks instead of proper enumeration and they do double enter instead of proper paragraphs. With proper, structural/semantic formatting in office you should mostly be fine. Just use VE and paste. Nux ( talk) 15:50, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

I'm curious how one does a "proper paragraph" in a Word type program? Mike Richardson ( talk) 09:18, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Increase paragraph spacing to be greater than line spacing, so that you don't need to type an empty line between paragraphs. I don't have Word installed right now, but the last time I used it, this was actually how it behaved by default. In Google Docs, you'd use the toolbar item "Line & paragraph spacing → Add space after paragraph", and then "Normal text → Update 'Normal text' to match". In LibreOffice Writer, you'd right-click some text, then use "Paragraph → Edit Style… → Indents & Spacing → Spacing → Below paragraph". Matma Rex talk 10:30, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, people often use space for indent and enter to increase spacing. I guess it's easier that way as you don't need to setup paragraphs in windows with lots of options. I know that a few people I asked about it didn't even know that there is a better way to do documents. Nux ( talk) 19:53, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Articles that have coordinate templates, such as Mercedes AMG High Performance Powertrains, have broken preview popups when you hover over the link – there won't appear any text / the text is blank. Sometimes the image will render but the text won't. See the first screenshot.

Articles that don't have coordinate templates on the other hand, like for example 2023 Australian Grand Prix, will have preview popups render correctly. See the second screenshot.

I am using Google Chrome 114.0.5735.248 official build 64-bit, on Windows 10 Pro 22H2 64-bit 19045.3208. The screenshots were taken in incognito mode (to isolate extensions, scripts etc as a possible cause), using Vector 2022 skin with full content width enabled. This issue also occurs when viewing in my normal browser window, where I have the Vector 2010 legacy skin applied. I have also tested this in Firefox (version 115.0.2), and the same issue happens there as well. It even happens with the vector 2022 skin set to limited width mode.

My main display does have 125% scaling enabled, but if I drag the browser window to my secondary display which is set to 100% scale, the issue remains there also. —  AP 499D25 (talk) 13:09, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

@ AP 499D25: This is Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 206#Page previews (popups) broken. Quick fix: move the coords somewhere else - to the infobox (if it has a coordinates parameter) otherwise to the bottom of the page, like this. -- Redrose64 🌹 ( talk) 14:24, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

I continue to have no technical feedback at Module talk:Coordinates#Protected edit request on 29 May 2023. I've also gotten no comment at phab:T338204#9017689 on the maintainer side, the suggestion of which would also probably fix things. Izno ( talk) 17:55, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

I don't know what exactly happens in the background, but MediaWiki considers {{ coord}} to be part of the prose. Since page preview is supposed to show the first paragraph, it thinks that coord is that first paragraph, and shows it, but as it produces no text output, all you see is a blank. Similarly, in mobile view the first para should always be visible on top, then infobox, then everything else. So, coords above the infobox causes the software to think that coord is the first para, and the actual first para to be the second para, leading to the infobox at the top.
But at the same time, please see MOS:ORDER which asks coords to be in the infobox or to be put near the end above categories. Putting coords above infobox is a popular but unsupported practice. — CX Zoom[he/him] ^{( let's talk • { C• X})} 20:09, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi! I figured some Lua developers may appreciate to know about this guide on how to develop a global Lua module (a module that can be used unchanged in all wikis) as well as the Synchronizer tool to automatically copy the master version of a module to all other wikis (and other neat features to make life easier).

I find both resources invaluable to maintain the modules I develop ( Module:Excerpt and Module:Transcluder). After some initial hard work, I'm now able to update all wikis with a single click every time I push a new version live, as well as monitor any "forks" and fix them. Hopefully you'll find some of this useful! Sophivorus ( talk) 23:24, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

MediaWiki message delivery 23:52, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello, can anyone help us to modify our module? In ru:Module:Ballot#L-259 module should proceed not only template {{ВАРБ:строка| , but also template {{ВАРБ:старая строка| . MBH ( talk) 21:15, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@ MBH, modifying "%{%{%ВАРБ:строка| at the beginning of the pattern to "%{%{%ВАРБ:(старая )?строка|, and changing line 262 from for candidate, to for _, candidate, should work. Please test! Izno ( talk) 23:52, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Izno Unfortunately, it doesn't work and even broke module: its old version works correctly on ru:Википедия:Выборы арбитров/Лето 2022/Голосование/Предытоги, but your version doesn't, the table becomes empty. MBH ( talk) 16:36, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

I don't understand OP's actual question, but I gotta wonder: Why does the pattern begin with %{%{%В and end with %}%}? If I put this in the debug console:

=mw.ustring.match ("%{%{%ВАРБ:строка", "{{ВАРБ:строка")

it returns nil

If I change that test to: =mw.ustring.match ("{{ВАРБ:строка", "{{ВАРБ:строка")

it returns {{ВАРБ:строка

I get similar results if I change mw.ustring.match() to string.match().

So, I guess that the first thing that Editor MBH must do is make sure that the pattern in ru:Module:Ballot#L-259 is a valid pattern. Remember that Lua patterns are not regex.

For further pattern consideration: what about whitespace around the template pipes and the '=' signs?

— Trappist the monk ( talk) 21:52, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Trappist the monk, the module works correctly now just because it generates a correct table on ru:Википедия:Выборы арбитров/Лето 2022/Голосование/Предытоги. I'm not an author of the module, it's user:Carn. Several technically experienced ruwiki editors edit this module and no one had any complaints about the piece of code you drew attention to. MBH ( talk) 23:55, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Ok. Don't believe everything that the debug console says. I hacked a test in my sandbox: Module:Sandbox/trappist the monk/ru test which shows that the pattern, even though flawed, works. Edit my sandbox and in the debug console type: =p.main() and press enter.

Surely, the author or any of the [several] technically experienced ruwiki editors can/should fix the ru.wiki module. Have you asked them?

— Trappist the monk ( talk) 01:04, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

I have asked them, they can't (they say, Lua doesn't support traditional regexes and they doesn't know Lua patterns) or doesn't have time for that. MBH ( talk) 11:08, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Aren't your debug-console inputs backwards? I tested with this:

input="{{ВАРБ:строка"
=mw.ustring.match (input, "%{%{ВАРБ:строка")

...and got correct results in the debug console. The use of %В seems to be born of the confusion that, because %b is an actual lua pattern-matching escape, %В has to be escaped. Which of course is backwards logic anyway, but especially unnecessary because 'В' (the Cyrillic letter) isn't even the same as 'B', never mind 'b'. Still, the third %, while unnecessary, doesn't seem to harm anything.

Anyway, MBH, as far as I can tell mw.ustring.match doesn't support making entire parenthesized expressions optional (i.e. "%{%{ВАРБ:(старая) строка" will match "{{ВАРБ:старая строка", but "%{%{ВАРБ:(старая)? строка" will NOT), and it doesn't support alternation ("%{%{ВАРБ:(старая строка|строка)") so your only recourse is to have two different matches:

match1 = mw.ustring.match(input, "%{%{ВАРБ:старая строка|")
match2 = mw.ustring.match(input, "%{%{ВАРБ:строка|")
if match1 or match2 then:
     ...

FeRDNYC ( talk) 13:51, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, backwards... must be getting dyslexic in my dotage.

A (possibly simpler) thing to try is to this pattern:

{{ВАРБ:[^|*строка|кандидат=([^\n*)\n|номинатор=([^\n*)\n|согласие=([^\n*)\n|отказ=([^\n*)\n|бюрократ=([^\n*)\n|отказ бюрократа=([^\n*)\n}}

It isn't perfect because it is possible to write {{ВАРБ:some sort of nonsense строка|...}} which may not be desirable. If there can only be {{ВАРБ:строка|...}} and {{ВАРБ:старая строка|...}} then it should be safe...

Fixing the problem by rewriting the code to allow for whitespace, non-vertical format, parameters in any order should be done. To restrict ru.wiki editors in this way is poor programming practice.

— Trappist the monk ( talk) 16:48, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

^ Have to agree with this, too. Using matching expressions to essentially parse template arguments is... well, just icky, TBH. I don't know what this is for, but there's gotta be a better way. Even true regular expressions do not a parser make. Remember the immortal words of bobince at stackoverflow:

You can't parse [X]HTML with regex. Because HTML can't be parsed by regex. Regex is not a tool that can be used to correctly parse HTML. As I have answered in HTML-and-regex questions here so many times before, the use of regex will not allow you to consume HTML. Regular expressions are a tool that is insufficiently sophisticated to understand the constructs employed by HTML. HTML is not a regular language and hence cannot be parsed by regular expressions. Regex queries are not equipped to break down HTML into its meaningful parts. so many times but it is not getting to me. Even enhanced irregular regular expressions as used by Perl are not up to the task of parsing HTML. You will never make me crack. HTML is a language of sufficient complexity that it cannot be parsed by regular expressions. Even Jon Skeet cannot parse HTML using regular expressions. Every time you attempt to parse HTML with regular expressions, the unholy child weeps the blood of virgins, and Russian hackers pwn your webapp. Parsing HTML with regex summons tainted souls into the realm of the living. HTML and regex go together like love, marriage, and ritual infanticide. The <center> cannot hold it is too late. The force of regex and HTML together in the same conceptual space will destroy your mind like so much watery putty. If you parse HTML with regex you are giving in to Them and their blasphemous ways which doom us all to inhuman toil for the One whose Name cannot be expressed in the Basic Multilingual Plane, he comes. HTML-plus-regexp will liquify the n​erves of the sentient whilst you observe, your psyche withering in the onslaught of horror. Rege̿̔̉x-based HTML parsers are the cancer that is killing StackOverflow it is too late it is too late we cannot be saved the transgression of a chi͡ld ensures regex will consume all living tissue (except for HTML which it cannot, as previously prophesied) dear lord help us how can anyone survive this scourge using regex to parse HTML has doomed humanity to an eternity of dread torture and security holes using regex as a tool to process HTML establishes a breach between this world and the dread realm of c͒ͪo͛ͫrrupt entities (like SGML entities, but more corrupt) a mere glimpse of the world of reg​ex parsers for HTML will ins​tantly transport a programmer's consciousness into a world of ceaseless screaming, he comes, the pestilent slithy regex-infection wil​l devour your HT​ML parser, application and existence for all time like Visual Basic only worse he comes he comes do not fi​ght he com̡e̶s, ̕h̵i​s un̨ho͞ly radiańcé destro҉ying all enli̍̈́̂̈́ghtenment, HTML tags lea͠ki̧n͘g fr̶ǫm ̡yo​͟ur eye͢s̸ ̛l̕ik͏e liq​uid pain, the song of re̸gular exp​ression parsing will exti​nguish the voices of mor​tal man from the sp​here I can see it can you see ̲͚̖͔̙î̩́t̲͎̩̱͔́̋̀ it is beautiful t​he final snuffing of the lie​s of Man ALL IS LOŚ͖̩͇̗̪̏̈́T ALL I​S LOST the pon̷y he comes he c̶̮omes he comes the ich​or permeates all MY FACE MY FACE ᵒh god no NO NOO̼O​O NΘ stop the an​*̶͑̾̾​̅ͫ͏̙̤g͇̫͛͆̾ͫ̑͆l͖͉̗̩̳̟̍ͫͥͨe̠̅s ͎a̧͈͖r̽̾̈́͒͑e n​ot rè̑ͧ̌aͨl̘̝̙̃ͤ͂̾̆ ZA̡͊͠͝LGΌ ISͮ̂҉̯͈͕̹̘̱ TO͇̹̺ͅƝ̴ȳ̳ TH̘Ë͖́̉ ͠P̯͍̭O̚​N̐Y̡ H̸̡̪̯ͨ͊̽̅̾̎Ȩ̬̩̾͛ͪ̈́̀́͘ ̶̧̨̱̹̭̯ͧ̾ͬC̷̙̲̝͖ͭ̏ͥͮ͟Oͮ͏̮̪̝͍M̲̖͊̒ͪͩͬ̚̚͜Ȇ̴̟̟͙̞ͩ͌͝S̨̥̫͎̭ͯ̿̔̀ͅ

---

Have you tried using an XML parser instead?

(Heh. The Russian hackers pwn your webapp. line is either irony or offensive, in this particular context.)

...Template arguments may not be [X]HTML, but the point stands. FeRDNYC ( talk) 00:58, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

This module is for parsing pages with regular structure, consisting of substituted templates, these pages are created only twice per year and their contents are closely monitored (these are pages for the ArbCom elections). It is possible and even simple to parse templates or HTML with regexes if you know document structure beforehand. It's impossible only if you doesn't know document structure beforehand (for example, if you don't know how many nested elements there will be). MBH ( talk) 20:12, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Mmmm, that's true to a point, though it's kind of the whole point of {{subst:}} is that it dumps a template's output into an editable content page — creating a starting point, rather than an immutable end result, IOW. "Nobody should ever touch these pages because hand-editing their contents risks breaking the incredibly fragile module that extracts data from the template transclusions they hold" is the sort of onerous restriction Trappist was talking about. But I'll concede that it's far less bad when we're talking about purely behind-the-scenes administrative housekeeping stuff, rather than mainspace article content (or anything involved in creating article content), absolutely. FeRDNYC ( talk) 23:06, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

FeRDNYC, I tried to implement your solution. It doesn't broke pages, on that the module was work, but it still doesn't work for "старая строка" elections, see ru:Википедия:Выборы арбитров/Осень 2014/Голосование/Предытоги, [11]. MBH ( talk) 15:32, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm looking at the code now... the problem, I think, is that you can't use an or conditional on the match execution itself, especially in a for loop like that. IOW, the if / or logic I suggested, incorporated into the module code, would look something more like this:

local block_pattern = "%{%{ВАРБ:строка|кандидат=([^\n]*)\n|номинатор=([^\n]*)\n|согласие=([^\n]*)\n|отказ=([^\n]*)\n|бюрократ=([^\n]*)\n|отказ бюрократа=([^\n]*)\n%}%}"
local old_block_pattern = "%{%{ВАРБ:старая строка|кандидат=([^\n]*)\n|номинатор=([^\n]*)\n|согласие=([^\n]*)\n|отказ=([^\n]*)\n|бюрократ=([^\n]*)\n|отказ бюрократа=([^\n]*)\n%}%}"

local match_pattern = ""
if nomination_page_text:gmatch(block_pattern) then
    match_pattern = block_pattern
elseif nomination_page_text:gmatch(old_block_pattern) then
    match_pattern = old_block_pattern
else
    return {}
end

local candidates, candidatrue = {}, {}
setmetatable(candidatrue,vlist)
for candidate, submitter, consent, refusal, admission, non_admission in nomination_page_text:gmatch(match_pattern) do
    ...
end

The truth tests on whether various patterns match anything at all (if they don't, they'll return nil which is a falsey value) have to be performed and a pattern chosen before using the for loop to extract the various subpattern matches. (The return {} in the else condition may or may not make sense, it's meant as a short-circuit to bail on the function if neither pattern matches the input string at all, since there are no values you can extract in those cases.) FeRDNYC ( talk) 00:48, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Oh, and BTW this code doesn't make any allowances for situations where both patterns can match the input string. If that's a possibility, then... well, then things get a lot messier. You may be better off rewriting the function so that it takes a pattern string as an additional argument. Then you can run it twice from the call site, once with each pattern. FeRDNYC ( talk) 01:51, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

(Or, use Trappist the Monk's suggestions for building a single pattern that will work for both templates, even if it's not perfectly restricted to only those exact two strings.) FeRDNYC ( talk) 02:28, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Oh, the true reason why it doesn't work is because "старая строка" template has another parameter names, sorry for carelessness. I will try to integrate a different structure of second template into existing module. MBH ( talk) 19:45, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Ah! Well, then it might be simplest to just copy the function, and make a second version that processes transclusions of ru:ВАРБ:старая строка with its argument structure. If the arguments are different between the two, there's no longer any real advantage to processing them both inside the same function.

The other thing I'm noticing, even with the existing function, is: The code is extracting parameters it doesn't even use. Why? It's be more flexible to deal only with the parameters it actually needs, and ignore the others. For example, the code to find transclusions, and then to extract data from a given one, could perform those steps in separate stages. First, identify a transclusion and extract its parameter text as one big string. Then, parse each parameter out of that string, separately, so it's no longer critical where in the string each pattern is located. For instance:

local transclusion_pat = "%{%{ВАРБ:строка([^%}]*)%}%}"
local candidate_pat= "|%s*кандидат%s*=([^|%}]*)"
local consent_pat  = "|%s*согласие%s*=([^|%}]*)"
local admission_pat = "|%s*бюрократ%s*=([^|%}]*)"

local candidate, consent, admission
for transclusion in nomination_page_text:gmatch(transclusion_pat) do
    candidate = transclusion:gmatch(candidate_pat)()
    consent = transclusion:gmatch(consent_pat)()
    admission = transclusion:gmatch(admission_pat)()
    if candidate and consent:find("(UTC)") and admission:find("(UTC)") then
        candidate = trim(candidate)
        table.insert(candidates, candidate)
     end
end

Now your parameters can be in any order, they can contain arbitrary whitespace, it doesn't matter if they're newline- or space-separated, etc, etc. FeRDNYC ( talk) 23:43, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

(Actually, if you use e.g. candidate = transclusion:match(candidate_pat), then you don't have to explicitly execute the function returned from :gmatch in order to get string results from it.) FeRDNYC ( talk) 00:19, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

@ FeRDNYC Yeah, I agree, it's unnecessary complicated to get list of candidates by parsing candidates page in different formats. I have two another ideas: post a newline separated list of approved candidates to separate page or, better, gather list of candidates using https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Prefixindex?prefix=Выборы+арбитров%2FЛето+2023%2FГолосование%2F%2B%2F&namespace=4. Can you propose a code that will extract the last part of the page title as a candidate username and transmit a list of these usernames to the rest of the module? MBH ( talk) 07:46, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

I'll take a look, sure. I would not be surprised if there's a function in the mw. package for performing the equivalent of all-pages-starting-with-prefix searches directly in Lua. (Or, barring that, we can probably make an API call and get the results back as JSON data.) FeRDNYC ( talk) 06:03, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Neither are possible in Lua. One would be phab:T78171 and the other would be phab:T49137. Izno ( talk) 06:17, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, Izno, was returning here to report the same findings. So it doesn't look like that's a viable option, MBH, since there are requests to add such functionality, but they're still unfulfilled currently.

I had actually thought of a third possibility, having the two templates in question add the pages they're called on to a certain category. But that hits the exact same problem: the ability to retrieve a list of category members from Lua is T199126, also still unresolved.

In order to get the data to Lua in an importable form, I think you'd need to have a bot task that regularly re-scanned the subpages list and dump the results into a data file, which could then be imported with mw.ext.data.get. But it sounds like you've sorted things out, so that's good to hear. FeRDNYC ( talk) 13:19, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Looks like I've done what I want to do: [12], ru:Википедия:Выборы арбитров/Осень 2014/Голосование/Предытоги. Thanks for everyone who helped me. MBH ( talk) 21:49, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I’ve noticed that when curly quotes and apostrophes (‘’ “”) appear in article space, bots like AutoWikiBrowser and Citation bot will more often than not “clean them up” and replace them with straight quotes, even when they are curly in things like citation titles. As far as I know curly quotes and straight quotes have the same exact purpose, so why exactly is more than one bot programmed to make every quote straight? 2001:4453:546:D000:C5F5:E244:E9A6:C47A ( talk) 02:45, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

MOS:CURLY. Izno ( talk) 02:50, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

There is a FAQ at the top of WT:Manual of Style which has a short statement. There is also a "Search archives" box on that same page where entering "curly" will show a hundred arguments about the issue. Johnuniq ( talk) 03:01, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

It's been a long time since I've seen it, but isn't there a bot that comes around and fixes redirects after moves? Is it still operating? Abductive ( reasoning) 03:39, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Yes, that's EmausBot Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 06:20, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, I guess I misremembered that it fixed redirects after a move, but it only fixes double redirects. Abductive ( reasoning) 07:24, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Well for the others, there's WP:NOTBROKEN. Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 08:00, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

I'm thinking re-targeting redirects, not changing pipes within articles. Abductive ( reasoning) 09:03, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Well then, what non-double redirect should get updated after a page move? Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 03:18, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Somebody (correctly) moved Echinopsis arachnacantha, a stub I created, to Lobivia arachnacantha. A couple of days later I happened upon it, and had to manually retarget a handful of synonyms. As far as my limited understanding of "double redirect" goes, these were double redirects. So I thought I'd ask here if the bot was still operating. Abductive ( reasoning) 08:02, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

The bot runs every 3 days across all Special:DoubleRedirects. The move was on 29 July, your redirect cleanup on 31 July. 2 days apart. Likely it happened in that window. Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 08:09, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Jebus. Abductive ( reasoning) 08:31, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

There are some pages that should have TOC entries so that navigation could be easier.

• First comes the module namespace. I often find it frustrating that there is no TOC entry to jump directly to the module code, the closest to it is the last entry of module documentation TOC, which unfortunately lands you 6-7 lines above your intended destination which is not good. Further, with the new sticky TOC in V-22, the last TOC entry remains bolded for the entire duration you look at the module code, which again is not good.
• Secondly, Diff pages should have a TOC entry to separate the diff from the rest of the article, which is absolutely necessary when dealing with diffs with large-scale changes. Currently, the (Top) button of TOC will take you to the extreme top the page, and the next entry on TOC is the first header of the article. There is no navigational support to go directly to the beginning of the article prose (lead section), which again is not good for navigation because either you have scroll down a huge distance from the top, or scroll up some 3-4 paragraphs from the first header in order to reach the lead.

I would extremely appreciate if these can be taken care of on the software end. Thanks! — CX Zoom[he/him] ^{( let's talk • { C• X})} 19:54, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

I actually don't hate either of these suggestions. Izno ( talk) 19:56, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Next step is to get tickets created on Phabricator. Feature request form on Phab. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 08:53, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

I am currently building a tool to check articles without images or with low resolution images ( VCAT). I am currently using MediaWiki Action API action raw to get images avoiding images from templates and other non relevant images (example here). But I am having some issues with the Template:Infobox river, the image comes directly from Wikidata and does not appear in the raw of the article, like in the article the article Pur (Russia). (example of the tool not detecting images at: VCAT - Wikiproject Rivers).

Is there a way to get only relevant images of an article using MediaWiki Action API? MingoBerlingo ( talk) 15:31, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

mw:API:Images. Nardog ( talk) 23:07, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, but I am still having issues, I am trying to identify articles without images, but in this way also non relevant images are included (eg. images in templates). For example in the article computational neuroscience there is no image, but using mw:API:Images it shows five images (example here) which are images used in templates. MingoBerlingo ( talk) 08:05, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Images from Wikidata in {{ Infobox river}} are also images loaded through templates. You're basically saying you want images loaded through templates except the ones you don't want, and expecting the server to divinely know which ones are which. You could of course use prop=wbentityusage and detect images coming from Wikidata, but at that point I assume Quarry would be faster. Nardog ( talk) 08:58, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

FYI, something like /info/en/?search=water?action=raw is no using the Action API. The equivalent via the Action API would be something like https://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&titles=water&prop=revisions&rvprop=content&rvslots=*.

You can fetch images used in a page using mw:API:Images as pointed out above, but as you noted that gives all images while you only want certain ones. There's no way to directly get "just some images but not ones via some templates". If that's the sort of thing you want, you'd probably do best to process the HTML (either scraped or from mw:API:Parse) while excluding images inside elements with class metadata and the like. Another option would be to take the wikitext, strip out templates you don't like, and use mw:API:Parse with prop=images to get the list of images in what remains. Anomie ⚔ 11:46, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! I think I will try the last of your suggestions. It seems a little tricky but could work fine. MingoBerlingo ( talk) 12:52, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Would it be possible to generate an aggregate timecard for the UnderArmourKid LTA sockpuppets? I'd like to see what their pattern of behavior is over the last 90-180 days. I'm not sure if aggregating multiple users' edits into one timecard is already supported. ☆ Bri ( talk) 17:51, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

If existing tools don't support it, Quarry could be programmed to do that sort of thing. Certes ( talk) 20:14, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

True, but Quarry would not produce the graphical timecard I was hoping for. ☆ Bri ( talk) 21:33, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

@ Certes: thanks for the suggestion, I coded up a Quarry query that's good enough. I'd still like those sweet graphics, though. ☆ Bri ( talk) 19:41, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

If you can make do with sour graphics, there's a fork in quarry:query/75587. Certes ( talk) 23:05, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll probably steal that back! ☆ Bri ( talk) 17:06, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Lately I've noticed that the move protection templates (e.g. pp-move) – and their small versions – are not rendering, at all. Example article being Jurassic Park. I recall these templates clearly working a few years back (at least back in 2017). I scoured through the talk pages for the templates (ahhh – something which I should've done for the article preview thread I created above beforehand), and I didn't find/see any recent threads talking about the lock not showing or rendering. The most recent thread I could find is from 2017 – this one – which just talks about it placing pages in the incorrect category, so it isn't relevant here.

I've tested the pages on both a normal browser window (where I have Vector 2010 skin selected) and in an incognito window, as well as in a different web browser, and it's the same result everywhere. Lock / banner not showing at all.

Has anyone else noticed this bug? —  AP 499D25 (talk) 08:24, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

This appears to be intentional rather than a bug. Looking at Module:Protection banner/config (specifically line 860 onwards), it appears {{ pp-move}} and similar have catonly set to yes by default. If you explicitly set |catonly=no, the templates will generate a banner/padlock about move protection. Aidan9382 _{( talk)} 08:38, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

The template documentation states only appears for autoconfirmed users for when using the small version of the template. But I am autoconfirmed, yet it's still not showing at all. Furthermore, it only states that for the small version, it doesn't say it for the banner. I have personally never seen the full banner version of the template work before, in fact with pretty much every protection template I've seen, the full banner version only works less than half of the time. Btw I just came across a note on the top of the template talk page stating that it was nominated for deletion in October 2020, and also providing this link: Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2020 October 25#Template:Pp-move. So maybe looks like they did modify it to not show up for non-registered users, which makes a bit of sense anyways since anonymous users will never be able to move pages. Now, I just don't understand why it's not showing up for confirmed / autoconfirmed registered users like me. —  AP 499D25 (talk) 08:52, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

The template documentation states only appears for autoconfirmed users for when using the small version of the template - {{ pp-move}} has stopped producing a banner/padlock at all by default since july 2021, and the template documentation was just never updated to mention this behaviour.

in fact with pretty much every protection template I've seen, the full banner version only works less than half of the time - What do you mean? Looking at my own sandbox, the banners appear to work fine. They aren't often seen on articles since the standard appears to be to use |small=yes which makes them display as a padlock instead of a banner. Aidan9382 _{( talk)} 09:06, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

So the template has been modified to simply not display a banner / lock / a visual indicator of any sort at all? If so, then that's pretty annoying that we have to click on a button and scan through a bit of the page source code to find out if a page is move-protected or not. I think the best way to handle it would be to have the template not show up for IP/unregistered editors, only registered users (maybe at the autoconfirmed and all above levels?).

As for the full banner protection templates not working half of the time, it's just something I swear I've seen a lot. Thinking more about it, one page that came up in my mind where it has a non-small protection template (pp-pc instead of pp-pc|small=yes), is Pop-Tarts. It does not display the full banner, just a small padlock like you would expect/get with small=yes. —  AP 499D25 (talk) 09:23, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

The presence (or absence) of {{ pp-move}} in the page source is not a guarantee that the page is move protected (or not). There are various methods of finding out the protection status, but the one that is both guaranteed and also requires no special privileges, no change to user preferences, no knowledge of coding and also the fewest clicks is to use the "Page information" link in the sidebar. Scroll down that to the "Page protection" heading, and it's all in the table. -- Redrose64 🌹 ( talk) 12:48, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

That makes sense, I'm aware of that. Though I didn't know about the protection status in the "Page information" view, so thanks for telling me about that!

Still though, the move protection would be an instant and easy indicator as to whether a page is move protected or not (i.e. no need to click a link to find out). Like I said above, I think it should be visible to registered users only. Don't we have bots that automatically add or remove protection templates when a page is protected or unprotected?

I'm going to guess the use of move-protection templates as a "visual indicator" have been deprecated and they are just purely used for page categorisation purposes now. —  AP 499D25 (talk) 02:15, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure if there is another place to ask, but this seems to be some kind of bug.

I was on my user page when using Chrome and saw that a quote I put there looked very strange, so I tried multiple times to fix it. It is almost fixed now but no matter what I do, the words "The file is deceased" end up on the wrong line. If the quote isn't there, there's just this big empty space.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 22:48, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

How about now? A line break in wikitext converts to space, so you have to use <br> or <poem>...</poem> if you want to realize a line break in output. Nardog ( talk) 23:16, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

That looks good. Thanks.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 15:43, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Nardog Now it doesn't look right at home with Microsoft Edge. Once again there's a big empty space below the top line.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:41, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Screenshot? Nardog ( talk) 20:46, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

I could (if someone would explain how) but it wouldn't be helpful to anything important. I don't think that quote is of any value on my userpage anyway. I liked it when I saw it but I know things looked right when I took it out.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 15:39, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

I have often found that HotCat randomly fails when making single quick changes. However, I have just found that it consistently fails to commit a change that involves removing a blank sortkey. – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 16:38, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

@ LaundryPizza03: Hi. Sorry I didn't read you post on the other talk page very closely. That might not be a bug. See Wikipedia talk:HotCat/Archive 4#Why do I need to include a pipe character to remove an existing sort key? and Wikipedia:HotCat#Sort keys. If you want to remove a sortkey, you need to leave the pipe character there, with no space or any character behind it. Or if you replace one cat with another and want to remove the existing sortkey, you need to add the pipe. In other words, if you remove the pipe and everything behind it, HotCat restores the existing sortkey. Does this sound like what's going on? -- DB1729 ^talk 16:53, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

I assume CAPTCHA has been turned on for all IP editors for all edits, or something happened recently needing CAPTCHAs. I was wondering why a CAPTCHA is required for previews? Shouldn't that not require CAPTCHA, as repeatedly entering it for the same edit, might end up dissuading people from contributing at all. Or are the servers overloaded, so that every preview would need a CAPTCHA? -- 67.70.25.80 ( talk) 06:42, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Regarding why the "edit" captcha is being required for previews too, that's just how they programmed mw:Extension:ConfirmEdit I guess. Regarding why the captcha feature has been turned on, it was as a response to some severe vandalism. More details at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#EmergencyCaptcha mode in effect. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 08:45, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

An emergency measure to require extra CAPTCHAs has successfully prevented disruption and has just been reverted, according to the ANI thread. Certes ( talk) 10:51, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

I was about to start my own thread about this. I've been having to enter in CAPTCHA for every single edit I've made now. Before, I believe CAPTCHA was only required for edits that add new external links to pages. Is this a new policy? 2601:1C0:4401:F60:E07A:CA49:686C:2E64 ( talk) 19:25, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Edit: Nevermind I just saw the ANI thread: this. Apparently it's in response to a massive spam-like attack of IPs adding nazi flags to lots of Wikipedia articles. Hopefully this is just temporary. 2601:1C0:4401:F60:E07A:CA49:686C:2E64 ( talk) 19:35, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Agree that it makes no sense to fill in a CAPTCHA for a preview. And it appears that this is only enforced on the client side. When I enter random text in the captcha field, it does show the preview without any hiccups. 93.72.49.123 ( talk) 21:36, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

For me, random text works on my Mac running High Sierra, but my iPad running iPadOS16 requires the correct captcha. Strange. 2001:4453:504:9600:2D9F:33B1:F325:6684 ( talk) 01:57, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

CAPTCHA

wait, so every edit (including ones without external links) requires a CAPTCHA now? 79.185.127.251 ( talk) 19:27, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Unless something changed in the last few hours, I don't think so. I made a slight spelling correction while logged out and didn't need to enter a captcha. WPscatter ^t/ _c 19:31, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes, it's in response to this WP:ANI thread. There was a massive amounts of IPs adding nazi flags to Wikipedia articles. Hopefully this will just be temporary. 2601:1C0:4401:F60:E07A:CA49:686C:2E64 ( talk) 19:33, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Oh wow, something did change in the last few hours. How about that. Oddly enough I was logged out by complete accident when I made the edit this morning, and I think it's my only logged-out edit since I created an account. Here I thought how serendipitous that I could answer this question with recent personal experience! Thanks for the info! WPscatter ^t/ _c 19:42, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

For more details, see #CAPTCHA required for preview above. Certes ( talk) 19:38, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Are there any plans to remove the CAPTCHA? It's still in place, two days after it was added. 123.51.107.94 ( talk) 00:09, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

It seems like the problem is being worked on privately. Any updates will probably be posted at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#EmergencyCaptcha mode in effect.

In the meantime, I filed task T343585 about the fact that filling out the field is required when previewing. It should only be required when publishing your changes. Matma Rex talk 18:26, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

With the Page previews feature enabled, hovering the word and hyperlink to Entente Cordiale, the snippet reads: "{{sidemianonn dominga michele daniel cosma enea" (curly braces included, open only; quotation marks not included).

Observed in In [[Concorde#naming] but it also appears in the preview to this very post.

I can't find occurrences of any of those words in either the link target nor (of the phrase) anywhere online. 86.3.149.95 ( talk) 09:43, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

The template {{ Events leading to World War I}} was scribbled over on 27 July and very quickly corrected. It's odd that the scribble is still showing up in your preview. I've purged the article, which may help. -- John of Reading ( talk) 09:59, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

That appears to have solved it. Thanks 86.3.149.95 ( talk) 10:01, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

I am trying to use different custom css for Vector Legacy and Vector 2022, for the purposes of testing dark mode features, and am finding that the css specified for vector Legacy (vector.css) is loading even when using vector 2022 setting in preferences and the vector-2022.css. Is this intended behavior? is there any way to specify css that will only load when using vector legacy and not load when using vector 2022? Dialectric ( talk) 17:08, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

It was intended behavior, and sometime toward the end of the year that intended behavior will no longer be intended and will be turned off. (On the list of things to RFC is to do it earlier than everyone else and be done with it.)

You may target specific skins, the classes for which are set on the body element. I think one is skin-vector-legacy and the other skin-vector-2022 off the cuff. Izno ( talk) 17:43, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I did target some css with .skin-vector-2022; looks like .skin-vector-legacy will do for limiting some css to the legacy view. Dialectric ( talk) 18:09, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

The <body> tag has several classes in its class= attribute. As I write this, those for Vector (legacy) include skin-vector and skin-vector-legacy, those for Vector-2022 include skin-vector and skin-vector-2022. -- Redrose64 🌹 ( talk) 20:30, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Note that you can use CSS nesting which is now available in most browsers (also in Firefox behind a `layout.css.nesting.enabled` flag). You will get some warnings from MW linter, but it seems to work fine. Nux ( talk) 13:56, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

The latest spec (14 February 2023) is at CSS Nesting Module, which is a W3C Working Draft, and therefore not to be relied on. -- Redrose64 🌹 ( talk) 15:51, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

If you do something weird with & or do many, many levels of nesting, then sure, it might stop working. But it is already implemented in Safari and Chrome and will not go away [13]. Just adding `.skin-vector-2022` around other CSS rules will definitely work in the future. Nux ( talk) 19:56, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Rules that apply only to Vector 2022 should be placed only in your Vector 2022 CSS page, which means that CSS needs no wrapping. It is solely CSS in Vector.css that needs clarification as to application. Izno ( talk) 20:10, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

At the moment the search function finds 38 cases of the following error:

Failed to parse (SVG (MathML can be enabled via browser plugin): Invalid response ("Math extension cannot connect to Restbase.") from server "
http://localhost:6011/en.wikipedia.org/v1/":): f

The error disappers sometimes when using Wikipedia:Purge, but something seems to be wrong. I discovered this problem in de.Wikipedia as well. Is there need to do anything? Kallichore ( talk) 00:25, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

I've searched on Phabricator and I don't see any tickets with that error message. Next step would be to file a bug report on Phabricator at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/maniphest/task/edit/form/43/. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 02:18, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

I filed a report here now. -- Kallichore ( talk) 08:15, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Viewing the page Communication and scrolling to the bottom of the page, I see a bordered box asking me to re-review a two-year old edit, and linking to a Feb. 2021 log item by Samsara, inviting me to "Accept" or "Unaccept" it:

<div id='mw-data-after-content'>
	<form method="post" action="/?title=Special:RevisionReview&action=submit" id="mw-fr-reviewform">
<fieldset class="flaggedrevs_reviewform noprint cdx-card" style="font-size: 90%;">
<span id="mw-fr-reviewformlegend"><span class="cdx-card__text__title">Re-review this revision</span><p class="fr-rating-controls" id="fr-rating-controls">
<span id="mw-fr-ratingselects" class="fr-rating-options"></span><div class="cdx-text-input" style="padding-bottom: 5px;"><label for="mw-fr-commentbox">Comment:</label><input name="wpReason" size="40" value="" maxlength="500" class="fr-comment-box cdx-text-input__input" id="mw-fr-commentbox" /></div><input name="wpApprove" id="mw-fr-submit-accept" class="cdx-button cdx-button--action-progressive" accesskey="s" title="Mark this revision as accepted [s]" disabled="" type="submit" value="Accept revision"> <input name="wpUnapprove" id="mw-fr-submit-unaccept" class="cdx-button cdx-button--action-destructive" title="Revoke acceptance of this revision by marking it as unaccepted" style="" type="submit" value="Unaccept revision">
 <span id="mw-fr-logtoggle" class="fr-logtoggle-excerpt" style="display:none;">(<a class="fr-toggle-text" title="Toggle display of the latest entry in the pending changes protection log">hide pending changes protection log</a>)</span><div id="mw-fr-logexcerpt"><ul class='mw-logevent-loglines'>
<li data-mw-logid="115621124" data-mw-logaction="stable/config" class="mw-logline-stable"> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Special:Log&logid=115621124" title="Special:Log">13:37, 22 February 2021</a> <a href="/info/en/?search=User:Samsara" class="mw-userlink" title="User:Samsara"><bdi>Samsara</bdi></a> configured pending changes settings for <a href="/info/en/?search=Communication" title="Communication">Communication</a> [Auto-accept: require "autoconfirmed" permission] <span class="comment">(Persistent <a href="/info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Disruptive_editing" title="Wikipedia:Disruptive editing">disruptive editing</a>: slow, long term pattern; via RfPP)</span> <span class="mw-logevent-actionlink">(<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Communication&action=history&offset=20210222133744" title="Communication">hist</a>)</span> </li>
</ul></ul>
</div></p>
<input type="hidden" value="Special:RevisionReview" name="title">
<input type="hidden" value="Communication" name="target">
<input id="mw-fr-input-refid" type="hidden" value="0" name="refid">
<input id="mw-fr-input-oldid" type="hidden" value="1167651378" name="oldid">
<input type="hidden" value="e5a2867c54ce4f1c6c146da0951eb9ce64cd4c44+\" name="wpEditToken">
<input id="mw-fr-input-changetime" type="hidden" value="20230729020856" name="changetime">
<input type="hidden" name="templateParams">
<input type="hidden" value="e132e91d9ad1e9b3684ae7ab69aaf836" name="validatedParams">
</fieldset>
</form>

</div>

This log action occurred more than 500 edits ago at the article, and I don't know why that box is appearing now (or at all). Mathglot ( talk) 19:18, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

I have seen recent traffic about this phenomenon and I cannot remember where. Izno ( talk) 20:03, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Do any of these 5 open bug reports cover this issue? If not, consider filing a bug report here, and tag it MediaWiki-extension-FlaggedRevs. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 02:21, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

It's not asking you to re-review a two-year old edit, it's just showing the log entry of when the page was pending-changes protected so you can see the context or rationale for the protection. The pasted source shows the revision being reviewed is 1167651378, which was the last revision when you created this thread. Nardog ( talk) 17:18, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello! I wanted to translate page about Nastazja Staniszewska from polish to english, but wikipedia says that it could be done only by experienced users. What can i do about it? MadAurochs ( talk) 15:12, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

If this is the Polish-language Wikipedia biography you are referring to, [14] I suspect a direct translation wouldn't be accepted, since by English-language Wikipedia rules, more coverage in independent sources would probably be needed to meet our notability criteria. You'd need to find such sources, and incorporate them into the article.

Article creation can be difficult, and we generally advise contributors to gain some experience in editing existing articles first, but if you are set on doing this see Help:Your first article, and Wikipedia:Translation, and then read Wikipedia:Notability (people) and WP:ARTIST in particular. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 15:27, 7 August 2023 (UTC)n

You cannot use WP:CX if you are not WP:Extended confirmed, meaning you need to have been on English Wikipedia for 500 edits and 30 days. If you still believe the biography is suitable, 1) you will need to do the translation by hand, and 2) I would recommend using WP:AFC for additional review. Izno ( talk) 17:20, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

MediaWiki message delivery 21:18, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

The drop-down templates in the Edit Window have always had a feature that if you click on one of the templates, input an URL, and clicked on the little autofill symbol next to it, it would automatically fill out the template. As of today, that's not working. I have three different browsers, and it's not working on any of them. It was working fine recently. Maybe it's because I'm trying to do that with a PDF? Feedback? — Maile ( talk) 23:10, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

I don't think the feature can extract any information for PDF files. See phab:T136722 and meta:Community Wishlist Survey 2022/Citations/Enable Citoid to generate citation from a PDF link. PrimeHunter ( talk) 00:20, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for finding for me. — Maile ( talk) 01:17, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Is there a way that we can prevent .js files from being automatically added to Category:User talk pages with conflict of interest notices? I have an example here from @ AfroThundr3007730:: User:AfroThundr3007730/twinkleoptions.js TheSandDoctor ^Talk 17:49, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Template:Welcome-COI-acc already has logic (near the end) to suppress the category if the template was added to the page years ago. Perhaps it could also check that the page title doesn't end in ".js". Certes ( talk) 19:00, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

The typical way to deal with this is simply to wrap the JS page in <nowiki>s. Since these are automatically changed, that could be fixed on the script side.

On the software side, while I have observed no actual consensus on the matter, my belief is that we want to continue to allow wikitext parsing in such content model pages. You could of course file a task to turn it off for JS content models (just as it is off for Scribunto). Izno ( talk) 19:30, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

@ Izno: Do you mean on Phabricator? TheSandDoctor ^Talk 23:41, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

For the latter item, yes. For the former, that would be at WT:TW. I have observed some people say it is a good thing, not a bad thing, because that it is what allows such pages to be categorized, among other qualities. Izno ( talk) 00:22, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Before you request it be turned off, you might want to review T43155 where the parsing was explicitly re-added after it was accidentally removed back in 2012. It's one of those things that wouldn't be done if this were new code, but may need to be kept for hysterical raisins since it already exists. Anomie ⚔ 01:42, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Indeed, there are times when it is desirable, for instance if a user no longer requires their /chick.css user subpage (because that skin was removed ten years ago), they can tag it {{ db-user}}, and it will show in Category:Candidates for speedy deletion by user. -- Redrose64 🌹 ( talk) 07:32, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Another benefit of parsing is that many .js comments include wikilinks to imported scripts, enabling toolsmiths to notify their customers of changes. Certes ( talk) 17:56, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Special:Search is sufficient for this case today (c.f. WP:TOPSCRIPTS). Tagging a script for deletion could be done at WP:ANI, though I think there's a db tags allow for "tagging" other pages. Or such could be devised. Or we could make a WP:Requests for speedy deletion a la WP:Requests for history merge or WP:CFDS.

What would probably be most lost is categorization. en.wp doesn't tend to categorize their scripts but I think other wikis might. Izno ( talk) 21:43, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

@ Novem Linguae: Should Twinkle wrap twinkleoptions.js in <nowiki>...</nowiki>? Nardog ( talk) 17:21, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

One thing to potentially experiment with is whether JSON content model pages do the same as JS pages in parsing stored wikitext. That could be a viable alternative for storing the config. Izno ( talk) 17:24, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Looks like twinkleoptions.js is already wrapped in nowiki. Example. The diff in the original post, User:AfroThundr3007730/twinkleoptions.js, is from 2018, so perhaps that is from before the nowiki patch was deployed to Twinkle. Looks like User:AfroThundr3007730/twinkleoptions.js is the only twinkleoptions page in that particular category. Search. I'll go ahead and use my interface administrator permissions to fix the original page. If there's a low number of other pages discovered, let me know and I can do some manual editing. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 08:41, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Why I see open quotation marks different than closed quotation marks at sr.wikipedia.org pre-tagged documentation output for mobile? I expected same output as with desktop view. The problem encountered at, is present at, sr:Шаблон:Инфокутија Сакрални објекат/док ( https://web.archive.org/web/20230808173952/https://sr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A8%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%BD:%D0%98%D0%BD%D1%84%D0%BE%D0%BA%D1%83%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%98%D0%B0_%D0%A1%D0%B0%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%BD%D0%B8_%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%98%D0%B5%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%82). /+ screenshot: http... (screenshot service outputs some expected version with correct format of both open and closed quotation marks: ) https://archive.is/d0u6N https://www.screenshotmachine.com/serve.php?file=result&1691518546448 +/ I use mobile view unapped. Browser was Samsung Internet v.22.0.3.1. The problem can be seen at Internet app yet it is standard unapped view because app is part of factory match (preinstalled or installed). -- 77.221.2.19 ( talk); 18:21, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

This is the Village Pump for technical issues on the English Wikipedia. It looks like sr:Википедија:Трг/Техника is the corresponding page on sr.WP. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 22:36, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Note that the logo overlaps part of the date. Also the 2nd line of text extends off the image:

• File:World map of total confirmed COVID-19 deaths per million people by country.svg

At the source it does not overlap:

• https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-covid-deaths-per-million

Our World in Data (OWID) already fixed this once. See OWID's March 2023 Github thread:

• In SVG exports, use a font selection that is better suitable for Wikipedia.

It would be nice if there were boxes to check on the file description page:

• Block font substitution (except for 'serif' and 'sans-serif')
• Substitute narrow fonts only.

People outside Wikimedia create great SVG images. But they are often messed up by Wikimedia's weird font substitutions at times.

• Commons:Help:SVG#Font substitution and fallback fonts
• Wikipedia:SVG help#font-family property

The SVG image creators create font family lists with a choice of fonts that meet the demands of Windows, Macs, Linux, and even Wikimedia.

So if Wikimedia just left it alone it would work fine. As long as there was a free font at the end of the font family list that was metric-compatible to the other fonts. See :

• https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Metric-compatible_fonts

As OWID did for their sans-serif font family:

• style="font-family:Lato, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Liberation Sans', sans-serif"

Wikimedia has the narrow free font Liberation Sans. But it is not being used. A wider font is being substituted for one of the other fonts in the list. Possibly DejaVu Sans:

• File:SVG Text Font Test.svg

-- Timeshifter ( talk) 20:55, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

I decided to make a test:

It appears that it either isn't processing fallback fonts anymore (just jumping right to the default Deja Vu Sans) or every unknown font is being "defined" as Deja Vu Sans so fallback never happens. Either way that sounds like a bug that should be reported in Phabricator. Anomie ⚔ 22:06, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

At a wild guess, perhaps the upgrade from librsvg 2.40 to 2.44.10 managed to break this, and hopefully the fix will come with phab:T265549? Anomie ⚔ 22:34, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, Anomie. Maybe you can post this at Phabricator. I am almost always baffled by aspects of it when I post there. You sound like you are more familiar with it.

From your image it looks like DejaVu Sans is being substituted for Lato and 'Helvetica Neue' and bogus font names. It looks like Liberation Sans is being substituted for Helvetica and Arial.

I think your image test would be better if "This is a test:" was in front of them all. Then comparisons would be longer and clearer. Right now I am just comparing "This is" for each one.

It looks like the narrower Liberation Sans should be the default fallback font instead of the wider DejaVu Sans characters and character spacing. -- Timeshifter ( talk) 22:52, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Usually the bolded heading in the table of contents on the side with the Vector 2022 skin matches the current scroll position in the primary page content area. However at present, when viewing the incidents' noticeboard, this behaviour only persists when the current heading or sub-heading is near the top of the page. Once it scrolls away, the bolded heading reverts to a heading of a different section. This behaviour seems to have started with this edit to the section in question. The preceding version behaves as usual, while the following version does not. Can anyone figure out how the wikitext included (via transclusion) to collapse some headings has caused the change in behaviour, and how it may be fixed? (Pinging SGrabarczuk (WMF) and OVasileva (WMF).) isaacl ( talk) 18:44, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Hey @ Isaacl. Thanks for raising this issue. We'll look into it. SGrabarczuk (WMF) ( talk) 01:47, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello everyone. I come from Vietnamese Wikipedia.

I have a question about the abuse filter: How can I write a filter to block users who continuously add spam content like the example in the image on the right-hand side?

Contributions of these sockpuppet accounts: Huỳnh Trần Ý Nhi Hoa Hậu, TrieuTSon.

Thank you. Plantaest ( talk) 06:34, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Would need to target something. Got any ideas? Are the accounts all new editors? Do they put the same thing in each of their edits? Do they put the same thing in each of their edit summaries? Do they only target certain pages? etc. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 06:48, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Both accounts that I mentioned above are new accounts. Shortly after their creation, they started engaging in disruptive behavior. As for other factors, I will investigate further. Thank you. Plantaest ( talk) 06:52, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

For an simple filter you could do 'contains_any(added_lines, "target line")' where 'target line' is whatever words he is adding. When you find one, I would use the search to see whether other people are using that same phrase. You can use vi:Special:AbuseFilter/test within 30 days of the edits to test what your filter is matching. Snævar ( talk) 19:31, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

@ Plantaest You're going to need to find "common patterns" on your own but something like below?

action === "edit"
&   !"autoconfirmed" in user_groups
&
(
    kw := rmwhitespace("
        (dummydummydummydummydummy)
        |<\/?bigg>
    ");
    
    rmwhitespace(added_lines) rlike kw
    &   !rmwhitespace(removed_lines) rlike kw
)

In any case it's neccesary to debug your code over and over to eliminate false positives before enabling the filter, especially when you choose block as the action to take. Dragoniez ( talk) 03:26, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Is there any way to get notified when someone else creates a new page in my userspace? DuncanHill ( talk) 10:23, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

No. User:PrimeHunter/My subpages.js adds a "Subpages" link to the interface on all pages. That would make it a little easier to check for new pages, but such a link is already at the bottom of Special:MyContributions. PrimeHunter ( talk) 11:01, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

A very inelegant solution is to write a SQL query to list your subpages, run it regularly using {{ Database report}} and watchlist its output. Certes ( talk) 18:04, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Another inefficient option is to use a web monitor such as Distill on Special:Prefixindex/User:Whoever. Certes ( talk) 18:08, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

If you have a page in your userspace that you regularly check, you could transclude Special:PrefixIndex/User:DuncanHill/ to it. But you would still have to check manually because changes to the original page do not show up as changes to the target page. -- Random person no 362478479 ( talk) 20:47, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

In addition to phab:T166924 mentioned above, phab:T3876#7723340 also mentions this. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 11:02, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Try putting {{ user subpages}} (add your username as a parameter) somewhere you will see it frequently. -- Verbarson   ^talk _edits 14:18, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

I'm looking for a way to detect multiple transclusions of a template within a page using a module, to add a maintenance category. Let's say we have {{A}} {{A}} in a single page, in which case I want to add e.g. Category:Multiple transclusions, but none when we only have {{A}} (single transclusion). Does anyone have any ideas? Dragoniez ( talk) 02:57, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

This is not information that is tracked at a database level. Why do you want this ? Generally multiple transclusions shouldn't really be too much of a problem. — TheDJ ( talk • contribs) 10:05, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Many clever people have tried to answer similar questions here, and I don't think it is possible. Would the module which adds the category be called from template A or in some other way, or is either ok? If you tell us more about the problem, we may be able to think more laterally and find an indirect solution. Certes ( talk) 11:08, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Say, A is a template like {{ Old XfD multi}}, which can have a bunch of "data rows". These rows don't need to be separated into multiple occurrences of the template and can be merged. I'm wondering if a bot can do this merging task. But if you develop such a bot, you'll need a way to get a list of the relevant pages, and I thought it'd be one option to have a tracking category so that we can collect page titles using list=categorymembers. I can think of other ways to do this, like using list=search, but the category solution seems to me to be most efficient, although I don't know if it's fundamentally possible to get a lua module to add such a category. This is why I thought I'd ask this. Dragoniez ( talk) 12:04, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

If you're using a bot then a search like this should do the job. You may want to change the list of namespaces, perhaps to just Talk:; the only hit outside the one I listed is Template:Old XfD multi/doc. Certes ( talk) 12:21, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

insource: doesn't discover redirects [16] with a non-matching name. PrimeHunter ( talk) 14:58, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

In a module can't you just use string.gmatch for the template name (or {{[Tt]emplate name) on the page content and iterate the result to get the count? —   Jts1882 |  talk  16:53, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Moved from Wikipedia:Teahouse § Broken interwiki links

Yesterday I was just browsing Special:Interwiki just because I was bored, and I noticed that one of the wikis in there, schoolswp ( Interwiki example, External example) is broken.

So I did the only logical thing: Make a JavaScript program to get all the base domains from the table, and then (through a CORS proxy) see which ones are broken.

After some manual sifting to see which ones false positives, I have results. Note that https://www.socialtext.net and https://www.wikimediachile.cl do work, but they give an SSL error and I don't know the former is in the interwiki table in the first place. -- QuickQuokka ^{[⁠ talk • contribs} 19:49, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

@ QuickQuokka I'm not sure if you're looking for an answer to a question, or a pat on the back (LOL), but this sounds far too technical a point to raise at the Teahouse. I wonder if you might be better off making whatever point it is that you're making over at WP:VPT? I'm really not trying to be rude, but the folks over there understand much the same sort of stuff that you seem to. Me on the other hand: nah! Best wishes, Nick Moyes ( talk) 20:30, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Yeah I was basically just looking for answers as to why they're there. Are they supposed to be there? I don't know. QuickQuokka ^{[⁠ talk • contribs} 20:33, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

The interwiki table is maintained on-wiki at m:Interwiki map. I've posted a pointer to this discussion over at m:Talk:Interwiki map * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 20:43, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

At Gambling_age#Countries, a table, sorting Age column gives second Illegal then None then Illegal so sorting is not working. I do not know why. -- 109.175.38.25 ( talk); 11:21, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

That column has data-sort-type="number", so the entries are sorted numerically. Entries with no numeric value remain sorted by country name, regardless of what non-numeric value (Illegal, None, etc.) they contain. Certes ( talk) 11:47, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

See more at Help:Sortable tables#Configuring the sorting. I have added data-sort-value to non-numeric values. [17] PrimeHunter ( talk) 11:55, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi,

The page for Rod Adkins - is not appearing on the mobile web browser version like Safari and Google Chrome.

Link to page: Rod Adkins#:~:text=Rodney C. "Rod" Adkins,Grainger and Avnet. Alanajhill ( talk) 15:33, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

@ Alanajhill, try this link? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Adkins WhatamIdoing ( talk) 16:17, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Resolved

Hi,

It seems like the fire diamond in Chembox Template for all chemical compounds is misaligned on mobile devices. The background image is moved completely to the right and some of the numbers / letters overlap the diamond's boundaries. I've checked on multiple devices - all with latest version of Chrome Browser. The alignment is alright on PC. Check example : Benzene. I can't fix it (as I have no idea how it works). Can anyone having knowledge about it help? Thanks in advance!! Ray Frost ( talk) 18:18, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

I have so far tracked this down to {{ NFPA 704 diamond}}. See that template's testcases page in mobile view for an example. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 18:53, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

All the diamonds are misaligned to the down-left. Is there a way to edit it? As I said, I have no idea how that code works and I really don't want make it worse. Ray Frost ( talk) 09:07, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

This is because the <figure> around the image has large margins on mobile, while it has no margins on desktop. This might be an oversight in the mobile styling for images, but I'm not 100% sure. It can be corrected by making use of TemplateStyles to style this element. — TheDJ ( talk • contribs) 11:04, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

I have created {{ NFPA 704 diamond/styles.css}} and tried to add it to the sandbox, but it hasn't fixed anything. I have almost no idea how to do TemplateStyles, though. Izno is usually good at them. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 13:30, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

I'll reach out to him then and ask if he can help. Thanks Jonesey95!! Ray Frost ( talk) 13:34, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

TheDJ fixed the CSS for me, and now Benzene looks fine in mobile view. I was so close! Someday I may understand how CSS works. Good job, team! – Jonesey95 ( talk) 16:01, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Wow, it looks PERFECT now. Thanks a lot for helping!! (Besides I don't even know what CSS is XD) Thanks Again!! Ray Frost ( talk) 16:04, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

@ Jonesey95, .content is "outside the reach" of TemplateStyles. All TemplateStyles selectors are "hoisted" to .mw-parser-output. This means that when you wrote .content, what you really wrote was .mw-parser-output .content. Now, the .content element exists outside the .mw-parser-output element, so in reality you were targeting nothing, as when you have multiple selectors they must be in the order of the HTML containers. This is something specific to TemplateStyles and that selector would have otherwise worked if it were in, say, Common.css, since that does not hoist CSS. The hoisting is one of the reasons that TemplateStyles is "safe". (There is one exception to how this hoisting works: you may target classes on body and html if you write them as body.class or html.class so long as you pick another child element, say, body.class .infobox. The corresponding output will be body.class .mw-parser-output .infobox and similar.)

As for imagemap, the name of the HTML element is map. Izno ( talk) 18:58, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Very well might be unrelated, but the infobox image for Himba people is misaligned on my mobile Chrome browser as well (this time to the left). 2603:8001:4542:28FB:9D1D:B71C:F4B9:8B91 ( talk) 08:52, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Only the image seems to be moved to the left. Ray Frost ( talk) 09:01, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Hey, during a Quarry query today, I saw that there was a replag on the English Wikipedia. Then, coming here, I remember that when this happened last time, it was suggest that a link to the replag page be put in the VPT FAQs page but that doesn't seem to ever been done. Anyone want to take on that small task? Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:06, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

It would be possible with AutoEd to create a configuration with a template and a list of parameters and have it remove the parameters in that template that are not in the list. -- GryffindorD ( talk) 10:47, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Probably. I have an example at User:Jonesey95/AutoEd/unnamed.js. It fixes misnamed parameters, but the logic is similar. You may have to list the invalid parameters individually, which is probably a good idea for most templates, because people often misspell valid parameters, so those should be fixed instead of removed. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 13:05, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

It is sometimes difficult to figure out which parameter creates the error, though, particularly with templates I know little about. If it were possible to get AutoEd to remove them, in previewing you would immediately understand the problem and possibly fix it. GryffindorD ( talk) 13:17, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

I'm using a few MOS scripts for copy-editing, the list is at User:Lallint/common.js. However, the scripts, for example the EngvarB scripts, only seem to work on my common.js page, and not in article namespaces. Going into source editor with the scripts in article namespace does show some of the scripts, but some are missing, and the ones that show do nothing when clicked. When I go into source editor on my common.js page, all of the scripts show, and I can use the scripts as intended. I'm using the latest version of Firefox, and I've tried chrome but it does the same thing. I've had this problem for a year, but its still happened. Lallint 01:05, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Those scripts are not compatible with the 2017 editor. Turn off "Use the wikitext mode inside the visual editor" in Preferences. Nardog ( talk) 05:38, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. That worked Lallint 18:55, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

There is an list over compatible gadgets with the 2017 editor at mw:User:Deskana (WMF)/Gadgets/enwiki. Snævar ( talk) 11:21, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Could someone help out? I added colors to my signature and Wikipedia provided a notice saying "Code that you insert on this page could contain malicious content capable of compromising your account. If you import a script from another page with "importScript", "mw.loader.load", "iusc", or "lusc", take note that this causes you to dynamically load a remote script, which could be changed by others. Editors are responsible for all edits and actions they perform, including by scripts. User scripts are not centrally supported and may malfunction or become inoperable due to software changes. A guide to help you find broken scripts is available. If you are unsure whether code you are adding to this page is safe, you can ask at the appropriate village pump. This code will be executed when previewing this page."

It is on my User:Ktkvtsh/common.css page. Could someone please confirm for me it is okay to use this code for my signature? Ktkvtsh ( talk) 12:59, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• @ Ktkvtsh: That is the standard notice that appears on everyone's .js and .css pages. It's just telling you to be careful what you add, not that there's anything wrong with what you have now. gnu 57 13:11, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

  Perfect. Better safe than sorry. Really appreciate you! Ktkvtsh ( talk) 13:12, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

As gnu said, the warning is generic; it just says that your computer will run anything written there, so if you copy and paste text from an untrusted source then it can do bad things. What you've added looks good, but beware that it will only affect how you see your signature when you are logged in. If you want your signature to appear differently to everyone, you need to change your preference in the Signature section of Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-personal. Certes ( talk) 13:14, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! Glad to know now. Ktkvtsh ( talk) 13:20, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Copying this from Template talk:Col-float since I couldn't get a reply there: For some reason, when this template is placed next to images along the side of the page, the columns do not start until the top of the last picture. This means a gap can form when there are lots of images; for examples, see the multiple wins and nominations sections at 95th Academy Awards#Films with multiple nominations and awards and 74th Primetime Emmy Awards#Nominations and wins by program. Is there a reason for this issue? RunningTiger123 ( talk) 15:23, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

@ RunningTiger123: This is behaving as expected, see WP:MFOP. I suggest that you reduce the number of images. -- Redrose64 🌹 ( talk) 16:38, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Right now, if you visit an old revision or diff of a page you're watching, it marks the latest revision as read, i.e. removes all "updated since your last visit" labels on the page history. Has this always been the case? It should only mark as read the revisions up to that point. And I feel like it did until weeks or months ago, or am I misremembering? Nardog ( talk) 11:09, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

I noticed this too. I filed a bug report for it in May. It's at phab:T335832. I suspect it's a regression. Hope this helps. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 23:59, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Weno has a broken infobox displaying a giant redlink. I can't figure out how to fix it as it's somehow procedurally generated. Anyone know what to do? Ten Pound Hammer • ^{( What did I screw up now?)} 17:40, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

The template documentation is no help; it just says it "should not be used from article namespace pages". (Didn't we have a whole bunch of giant rfcs all saying not to do the sort of things that template does? Or did they suddenly start going the other way over the last year while I've been mostly inactive?) — Cryptic 17:49, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

I believe the most recent discussion on Wikidata in infoboxes is Wikipedia:Wikidata/2018 Infobox RfC, which came to no consensus. Unfortunately there's been a frozen conflict here, with regular "no consensus" results, for about as long as I've been editing. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 17:56, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

And I also removed the clearly wrong "This template is rated as pre-alpha" from the documentation, since it has 520 mainspace uses. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 18:01, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

 Fixed (by abandoning that particular template entirely and switching to ordinary {{ infobox settlement}}) * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 17:56, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

It looks like the problem is that Template:Infobox settlement/Wikidata says {{#if: {{#property:P31}} | [[{{#property:P31}}]] }} which then strings the two P31 parameters of wikidata:Q1009384 together and turns them into a link. I am not sure that P31 can always be interpreted as "settlement type", certainly not as something that can be turned into a piped link. Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk) 18:16, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Per the RFC, that Wikidata property call is invalid, since it does not check to see if the value is sourced. I have expanded the documentation for the template to explain that it should not be used in article space until it is modified to conform to the RFC's sourcing requirement. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 18:25, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

I'm honestly inclined to just nominate it for deletion - the chance of the warning you added becoming anything other than dead letter otherwise is negligible and it seems like nobody wants to do the necessary work. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 18:52, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

No objections from me. The doc has had a note about the template needing to be fixed for three years, and the template has mostly gotten worse since then. It seems to be abandoned. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 19:34, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Does anyone know whether {{#invoke:WikidataIB|getValue|rank=best|qid={{{qid|}}}|Pxxx|fetchwikidata=ALL|onlysourced=yes}} is the right replacement for {{#if: {{#property:Pxxx}} | [[{{#property:Pxxx}}]] }} code? To solve the source thing. Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk) 20:01, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes, in theory. But the fact that nobody has responded to that comment until now strengthens my and Jonesey95's point. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 11:34, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

It was my understanding that Google only lists Wikipedia articles that are in article space, also known as mainspace. I also thought that Google only listed articles that have been reviewed by New Page Patrol, but that is not my concern in this post. However, I have seen that a Google search for Zepotha shows Wikipedia:Zepotha. For background, Zepotha is a fictitious movie, apparently originating on TikTok. Multiple pages about it were recently deleted from draft space as a hoax. I tried to search Google for non-Wikipedia mentions of this name or meme. As my screen shot shows, Google displays Wikipedia:Zepotha, which is a red link showing that it has been deleted three times by administrators. So my question is whether anyone is aware of a way that Google lists pages in Wikipedia project (WP) space Robert McClenon ( talk) 05:16, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Robert McClenon, Google can display anything that its algorithms decide to display. Wikipedia:Controlling search engine indexing says Respecting the tag, especially in terms of removing already indexed content, is up to the individual search engine, and in theory the tag may be ignored entirely. Cullen328 ( talk) 05:31, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

User:Cullen328 - Thank you, sort of. In this case Google was stupid. Articles in spaces other than article space will seldom be of interest to a reader who is using a search engine to search the World Wide Web. Pages in project space are seldom of interest to someone who is not a Wikipedia volunteer. In this case it will just confuse the searcher. Duh. Robert McClenon ( talk) 06:07, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Robert McClenon, the only website that Wikipedia editors have any direct influence on is Wikipedia. As for Google, they are useful 98% of the time, but occasionally, they screw up. For example, their navigation instructions to my neighborhood tell people to drive through a locked gate to get to my house, and when a driver passes by the locked gate, the directions turn into complete nonsense. I have to warn guests. Cullen328 ( talk) 06:16, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

It looks like most namespaces are allowed to be indexed by search engines by default, the exceptions being unpatrolled mainspace pages, user pages, and draft pages. (There are also a few more specific exceptions - e.g. AfD, AN, SPI, LTA, RSN, RfA, etc.). I suppose WP: space is hard in that there are a number of pages there that could be legitimately useful, especially to editors. LittlePuppers ( talk) 06:27, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure why ppl think that only main space is of interest to Google or people trying to find information on Wikipedia for that matter. They might prioritise main space higher internally in their algorightme of course, but information is information. If you put it on the web, Google will index it and probably should index it. While we exclude some pages that might be used to game the system, or that are more likely to include personal information etc. In general, every single page is indexed. — TheDJ ( talk • contribs) 13:36, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Identify political leader pages lacking the Infobox officeholder template, along with a user-friendly filter for sorting them by election or state. I have work on Tamil Nadu state & 2021 Assembly Election. Thanks in advance. - IJohnKennady ( talk) 03:36, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Maybe try Petscan, with a category selected, a high depth of subcategories (e.g. 10), and a "doesn't have template" {{ Infobox officeholder}} selected. Example. Perhaps choose more specific categories and templates to reduce the # of results to a manageable level. Hope this helps. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 04:39, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much i'll explore this. -- IJohnKennady ( talk) 13:55, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

And i have one more doubt, how to find, How many pages didnt have Electoral performance heading. _ IJohnKennady ( talk) 11:52, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

@ IJohnKennady, you can combine "doesn't have" (-"your text") with incategory: or hastemplate: searches to find articles like that, e.g., https://en.wikipedia.org/?search=hastemplate%3AInfobox_officeholder+-%22electoral+performance%22&title=Special%3ASearch&ns0=1 It won't be perfect, but it should find you a lot of articles. Whatamidoing (WMF) ( talk) 16:20, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

See discussion at Template talk:Infobox scientist/Wikidata#Thesis causes links in links lint error. Please continue the discussion there. There are actually two issues. One is with the template and one is I can't figure out how to add an academic thesis in Wikidata. — Anomalocaris ( talk) 17:29, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Help:Searching says the maximum search string is 300 characters, which matches my experience. However, it now seems to be accepting only 255 characters. Has it changed? This breaks some existing searches. (Per phab:T107947, the restriction seems to be an arbitrary one to discourage slow searches, but I'm having to remove optimisations to fit within the lower limit. Has someone scored an own goal?) Certes ( talk) 09:38, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

That phab to reduce the max search characters to 255 was closed as resolved in 2015. Are you saying that 300 characters worked from 2015-2023 and recently stopped working? Can you give an example query that recently worked but stopped working? Maybe that info will help someone investigate. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 00:00, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Is it just a conflict with some script also loaded, or is it non-existent here? ~ Lofty abyss 08:38, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Please be more specific. Generic Ajax rollback is now in core ("Show a confirmation prompt when clicking on a rollback link") so you don't have to import any script, and if you use a more elaborate script you most likely have to turn the option off. Nardog ( talk) 09:06, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

I mean the functionality that used to be able to rollback on special:contribs, without redirecting to another page... ~ Lofty abyss 09:27, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

What about it? Nardog ( talk) 10:15, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

@ Lofty abyss, have you tried mw:safemode to find out whether you have a conflicting script? Whatamidoing (WMF) ( talk) 16:43, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

I still only get the default rollback links.

@ Nardog, I haven't seen it in quite some time... ~ Lofty abyss 17:07, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Blank your global.js, common.js, and the .js for whichever skin you're using, and turn on "Show a confirmation prompt when clicking on a rollback link". Nardog ( talk) 18:21, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

But confirmations isn't what I'm seeking? There were these [ajax] links which did it with no confirmation or page redirections, once... ~ Lofty abyss 19:35, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

On what wiki have you seen it? Whatever it is, it's a user script or gadget, not something from the MediaWiki software or an extension. Nardog ( talk) 02:52, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

MediaWiki message delivery 05:57, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi, y'all! I just created a stripe, but when adding it to one of my pages, User:Tails Wx/genderfluid strip, it stated "Page User:Tails Wx/genderfluid stripe/styles.css must have content model "Sanitized CSS" for TemplateStyles (current model is "CSS")." The link to the code is User:Tails Wx/genderfluid stripe/styles.css. Can anyone assist and help as to why it isn't working? Thanks! Tails Wx ( they/them) ⚧ 03:04, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Should work now. When you create a .css page in the user space, it is treated as a CSS content model. The reasons for that are somewhere in the "security" basket. An interface admin (such as myself) can change the content model to sanitized CSS. Izno ( talk) 07:18, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Alright. Thanks! Tails Wx ( they/them) ⚧ 07:19, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Take a look near the bottom of Berliner FC Dynamo, in the sections "References", "Further reading", and "External links". {{reflist}} and {{cite news}} templates are not displaying as intended, but rather as links to the template pages. I cannot see what is causing this. Your help would be appreciated. DuncanHill ( talk) 10:45, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Oh! I just saw aa notice about a template size limit at the top. Never seen one of those before! DuncanHill ( talk) 10:47, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

The notice is made with {{ Citations broken from PEIS limit}}. The page is in the hidden category Category:Pages where post-expand include size is exceeded. Preview shows a warning at top with a link to Help:Template#Template limits. The category and preview warning are automatic and don't rely on the template. PrimeHunter ( talk) 10:55, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Its got over 1100 references. Many sentences have multiple, so perhaps some can be cut down. The flags could also be cut, but that is only a small amount all up. Graeme Bartlett ( talk) 11:55, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

The history section is far too long. I've commented on the talk page. i only went to it to try to fix a Category:Harv and Sfn no-target errors. DuncanHill ( talk) 12:04, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Should probably do WP:SPINOUTs until each article is down to less than 500 references. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 00:04, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

There are already four large spinouts with 950 kB total:

• History of Berliner FC Dynamo (1954–1978) (182 kB)
• History of Berliner FC Dynamo (1978–1989) (299 kB)
• History of Berliner FC Dynamo (1989–2004) (236 kB)
• History of Berliner FC Dynamo (2004–present) (233 kB)

The problem is that a user also added a 328 kB history section [20] to the main article. It should be drastically cut. PrimeHunter ( talk) 11:05, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

I don't know where to lodge this information about Wikipedia:WhoWroteThat, since the page is a redirect to mediawiki; perhaps someone here is also active there or knows who to ask on en.wiki about this.

Until Bocaranda, I've found WhoWroteThat to be reliable. Lately, it is glitching at Nelson Bocaranda, and I'm wondering if the interlanguage links are somehow throwing it off (since I started noticing it about the time I added them, but I can't be certain that was it). Today, it is attributing a ton of text that I wrote to WMrapids; as examples, look at the sentence using "knee pain", and the sentence starting with "Contrary to Article 143". And then halfway through the "Responses" section, it stops working entirely. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 15:18, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

@ WhatamIdoing: who first told me about WWT, and may know where to put this; I don't do mediawiki. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 15:21, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Community Tech handles that, so the best person to reach out to is probably MusikAnimal (WMF). WhatamIdoing ( talk) 16:16, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Hmm, I'm not sure what's going wrong here! I have filed phab:T344011 so we can investigate further. Thanks for the bug report, MusikAnimal (WMF) ( talk) 18:26, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks to both, SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 23:26, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

In the future, for WhoWroteThat, bugs can be filed directly on Phabricator using this link. Just make sure to put "Who-Wrote-That" in the tags section. This will skip a couple of middlemen and pings. Creating a ticket with the correct tag emails the developers of that tool, such as MusikAnimal. Hope this helps. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 12:30, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

I appreciate that info Novem Linguae but I'm unlikely to file a report directly-- not familiar enough to know if something is truly a bug or just me. Instead, I am more likely to ping you directly :) :) SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 15:48, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Hypothetical question I can't figure out: if an IP editor is blocked but has not had talk access revoked, and their user talk page is semiprotected, can they edit the page? It would be an unusual situation but I'm wondering what the actual answer is. Ivanvector ( ^Talk/ _Edits) 16:26, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

They can't. The benefit to this is it will allow a longer term block without removing their talk page access for the whole time. ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 16:30, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Indeed. See User talk:47.22.21.38 for a non-hypothetical example. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 16:38, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

If a page is semiprotected, why would an IP ever be able to edit it, regardless of whether it's theirs or they're blocked? ( all non-hypothetical examples.) — Cryptic 16:41, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

For the past fortnight the text on the edit source page has frequently randomly shrunk so that only three lines are visible and can be edited. I have tried using a diferent browser and a different computer and neither solved the problem.

I have a screenshot but it is in Word and the instructions say it has to be png, so I would have to find out how to convert it if uploading it would be helpful. Thanks if anyone can help. Dudley Miles ( talk) 18:44, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

first thing i'd suggest is to try "safemode" (add safemode=1 to browser address line, preceded with ? Or if it already contains ?, then with & ). If the issue goes away in safemode, it means most probably some script or gadget you have installed or activated is the culprit. If it doesn't go away, and presuming windows operating system, use snipping tool (windows key, type snipping tool, and click on the app when you see it), which lets you save as png to capture the screenshot.

Peace. קיפודנחש (aka kipod) ( talk) 19:40, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

A screenshot would be very helpful for visualizing the problem, since there was no steps to reproduce provided. To convert a screenshot from Word to PNG, try the following.

1) Open an image editing program such as MS Paint

2) Open your word Document

3) Right click on the image -> copy

4) Switch focus to Paint

5) Paste

6) Save as -> something.png

7) Upload to Wikimedia Commons or your preferred third party image host

8) Link to it here – Novem Linguae ( talk) 00:08, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

@ Dudley Miles: Or see the box displayed when editing this page, which says

• Would a screenshot help you to describe the problem? If so, please follow the directions at Wikipedia:Screenshots of Wikipedia.

which is a more direct method, not involving Word. -- Redrose64 🌹 ( talk) 07:39, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. I have uploaded c:File:Edit problem.png. Dudley Miles ( talk) 10:53, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

So the edit box has its normal dimensions, but only three lines inside it can be used (as shown by the scrollbar on the right). I've not come across that before. -- Redrose64 🌹 ( talk) 13:18, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Something is definitely wrong because you have syntax highlighting enabled but it is not actually highlighting anything. As others have pointed out, you'll want to try safe mode first, i.e. this link. If things look okay there, that means it is very likely a script or gadget that you're using that is causing the problem. Try removing things one by one at Special:MyPage/common.js and/or Special:MyPage/vector.js. — MusikAnimal ^talk 18:06, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

I have followed MusikAnimal's instructions and the problem code appears to be "importScript('User:Lingzhi2/reviewsourcecheck-sb.js'); // Ling's source review script". It is curious that I installed the code in September 2021 and I have not had a problem until now, but I deleted it and trust this will solve the problem. Thanks for all the help. Dudley Miles ( talk) 20:04, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

I stumbled upon Peter Osborne (philosopher), whose infobox provides his thesis title and URL. I went to his Wikidata page and attempted to add the academic thesis there. Compared to Wikipedia, this page has a strange interface. I found "add statement" at the bottom of the page. I clicked on that, then entered "academic thesis" in the first field, then I entered "The carnival of philosophy : philosophy, politics and science in Hegel and Marx" (with and without a trailing period) and "publish" is grayed out. Then I added 1 Reference with reference URL " https://ethos.bl.uk/OrderDetails.do?uin=uk.bl.ethos.253269". "publish" is still grayed out. How do I get "publish" to be clickable? Do I have to first create the thesis in Wikidata as a separate entry before I can add it to this entry? — Anomalocaris ( talk) 17:58, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

@ Anomalocaris for a person in wikidata you can add that property academic thesis, but you have to link it to a thesis. For example here is one: wikidata:Q15212501, you can't just type in a name. — xaosflux ^Talk 18:09, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

So "yes" to your second question; the definition of that property is here: wikidata:Property:P1026. — xaosflux ^Talk 18:10, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Xaosflux: In Wikidaata, I created a new item, The carnival of philosophy : philosophy, politics and science in Hegel and Marx. I tried to add properties, but I kept getting ! in a circle, and the root of the problem is that Wikidata thinks this item is in the wrong class, but there's no obvious way to change an item's class. Anomalocaris ( talk) 18:37, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

@ Anomalocaris  Works for me, go to Q7176244, add statement academic thesis, and put Q121477887 in there, publish. — xaosflux ^Talk 19:06, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

For more help on this, you may want to try wikidata:Wikidata:Report a technical problem. — xaosflux ^Talk 19:06, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Xaosflux: Following those directions, after "put Q121477887 in there", there's ! in a circle next to the thesis name, and clicking on it shows "Values of academic thesis statements should be instances of one of the following classes (or of one of their subclasses), but The carnival of philosophy : philosophy, politics and science in Hegel and Marx currently isn't:" followed by a bulleted list that is variations on "thesis". Which is exactly what I said in my previous comment, the thesis entry is miscategorized as something other than a thesis and there's apparent way to to reclass it. — Anomalocaris ( talk) 20:06, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

@ Anomalocaris it looks like someone on wikidata fixed that. — xaosflux ^Talk 22:29, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Any progress on this? Moxy- 02:08, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

See mw:Extension:Graph/Plans. Not yet. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 02:10, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

This is a followup to my recently reported (July 30) new fat: project conflicting with a couple English wiki article titles (one was a redirect and the other an article). In that discussion Pppery pointed to another new project which was going to cause trouble: "There's also f:, which is about to become an interwiki prefix for Wikifunctions, and conflicts with three redirects." See phab:T325908.

Unfortunately JD Forrester dismissed these with his "won't fix" comment "Eurgh, yeah, I don't think namespaceDupes will fix those. There are only three, low-value redirects on enwiki, but across the cluster there are likely a few that we'll be sad to lose." and Denny functions closed the task as Resolved.

So once again I find that if you really want to get something done, it's better to ask at the village pump rather than Phabricator (where you're most often dismissed or ignored).

@ Taavi: can you work the same magic with f: you did with fat: using the page move API and page IDs queried from the replicas for "F:NV", "F: NV", and "F:F:F"? Thanks, wbm1058 ( talk) 14:55, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Contrary to your claim, I did not dismiss this concern, I complained that we didn't have a way of fixing it automatically, and expressed sadness that we can't fix it automatically, unlike when namespaces are added (because interwikis work in a different way).

You (or someone) will need to make a series of action=edit API calls to manually fix each of them; unlike pages hidden by namespace changes, they're still available via their page ID in the API.

Sorry for the confusion! Jdforrester (WMF) ( talk) 03:16, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Oh, I understood you perfectly. Your team of paid employees had no intention of (manually) fixing the problem they created. You expect volunteers to fix it for you. The first step is to query the page IDs from the replicas. – wbm1058 ( talk) 16:20, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Then the second step is to use the Special:ApiSandbox to move the pages, filling in the necessary fields in the forms.

 Done – pages moved to F – F – F, F – NV and F - NV.

(and no, I did not need to make a series of action=edit API calls!) – wbm1058 ( talk) 17:08, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Could someone report a bug for me? As an IP I don't have access to phabricator.

The issue is that the __NONEWSECTIONLINK__ does not properly supress the "new section" tab on certain "action" pages, and that it is still possible to add new sections to the page using discussion tools.

Steps to reproduce:

1. Go to a page containing the __NONEWSECTIONLINK__ magic word, e.g. Talk:Hillary Clinton/April 2015 move request
2. Note that the "Add Topic" tab is correctly hidden in the top ribbon menu.
3. Click on one of the actions in the top ribbon, e.g. "edit", "history", "related changes", "page information"...
4. Note that the "Add Topic" button is incorrectly displayed in the top ribbon menu.
5. Clicking on the button starts the discussion tools new section dialogue

Thank you, 192.76.8.66 ( talk) 16:27, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

phab:T344387 * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 22:41, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi everyone! The link Wikipedia:List_of_AfDs_closing_today goes to the log page for AfDs that are a day older than they should be, i.e. from 8 days ago (as opposed to 7). For example, today (11/08), it should open Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2023 August 4, but it instead opens Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2023 August 3. Actualcpscm ^{scrutinize, talk} 14:40, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

It's an easy fix, but I wanted to make sure it isn't intentional first. Actualcpscm ^{scrutinize, talk} 14:45, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Strange one that. It's easy to make it display the list from 7 days ago instead of 8, but it looks like it's always been like that. Is it actually being used anywhere? Black Kite (talk) 15:05, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Lourdes' AfDs Closing script uses it, which seems to be the primary use case. If there are no objections here, I'll just fix it and see if anyone complains. Actualcpscm ^{scrutinize, talk} 15:13, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Pinging Lourdes, since the page was apparently created for this script. Actualcpscm ^{scrutinize, talk} 15:16, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Please go ahead. Thank you for the ping. Lourdes 05:24, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

I think the reason I made it 8 days was because the AfD should be deleted or kept after seven days of discussion (it would be the eighth day when the AfDs would be closed). Just double check and make the change if you think that is prudent. Thanks, Lourdes 05:29, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Changed it, I think it works better now; it shows the AfDs which are either closeable or will become closeable by the end of the day. Actualcpscm ^{scrutinize, talk} 09:40, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

IIRC it was set at today minus 8 days (instead of today minus 7 days) to ensure that all AFDs listed were those actually eligible for closure. We did have a big problem with people closing non-snowy XfDs early, assuming that the 7 days was counted from midnight. I see that this has happebned today - for example Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alternative versions of Robin was raised at 02:56, 5 August 2023 (UTC) and was closed at 02:34, 12 August 2023 (UTC) - that is, 6 days 23 hours 38 minutes later. Whilst 22 minutes can be seen as a technical quibble, it did not run the full 7 days. -- Redrose64 🌹 ( talk) 16:50, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

That makes sense, but I think -7 days is more useful; the vast majority of AfDs at -8 will already be closed. Maybe a reminder of the 7 day duration on the AfDs closing today page would be warranted? Actualcpscm ^{scrutinize, talk} 17:08, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

I remember when AFDs were only open for 5 days, and we had disputes over people closing them early back then, too.

Expecting people to pay attention to tiny little details, like the exact number of hours/minutes the AFD has been open, is unrealistic. If you want them to not close discussions early, you have to make it difficult for them to make the mistake.

I suggest that you consider whether rushing to close an AFD at the earliest possible moment is something we should be doing. We know that it's actively harmful to close a discussion at half a day early, because that causes disputes between editors. The dispute is unpleasant, and the discouragement to AFD closers is damaging. Is it actually harmful to close a discussion half a day after the first possible minute? Who gets hurt in such a situation, and how? WhatamIdoing ( talk) 16:40, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

The primary tool for closing discussions, used by the vast majority of closers, is WP:XFDC. This does in fact prompt closers if the discussion hasn‘t been open for the full seven days, so it‘s very hard for me to imagine how it could happen accidentally.

I don‘t think we should be „rushing to close“ as soon as it‘s been exactly seven days. But the script is more useful if it links to a list of AfDs that are actually „closing today“, i.e. where the seven day period has elapsed or will elapse within a few hours. Actualcpscm ^{scrutinize, talk} 16:50, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

What is more useful about it?

I can understand someone being irritated that the name says "closing today", if they thought that it meant "these AFDs are close later today, so you still have a chance to participate" instead of "these are the AFDs that admins are currently/already in the process of closing today", but that sounds like a reason to change the page title, not to change the contents of the page. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 17:16, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

But both apply to the current version. The primary use of this page is, as far as I‘m aware, for closers to see discussions that have recently reached a duration of 7 days. If you go to the deletion log for 8 days ago, most of the time, the vast majority of discussions will already be closed or relisted. I really don‘t see the problem with the 7 day version; if I‘m missing something, please do point it out. Actualcpscm ^{scrutinize, talk} 18:47, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

It sounds like the 7-day version isn't precisely 7 days 0:00 hours through 7 days 23:59 hours. It sounds like the 7-day version includes discussions that are (at the time they first appear on that page) less than seven days old.

"The vast majority of discussions get closed or relisted as soon as they are eligible" is not what I would call a problem. Are you trying to optimize this for the sake of users who want to close more AFDs personally and are feeling disappointed that there are (apparently) plenty of other people already doing this work? WhatamIdoing ( talk) 03:18, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Neither the previous version nor this one are „precisely 7 days 0:00 hours through 7 days 23:59 hours“, the page just transcludes the deletion log for a specific calendar day. I’m not trying to optimize this for users who are disappointed they can’t close more AfDs, I’m trying to optimize it for users who close AfDs in general, because they’re the ones who use this. Actualcpscm ^{scrutinize, talk} 07:15, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Note: Now the page is broken (see Wikipedia:List_of_AfDs_closing_today) due to WP:PEIS being exceeded. Maybe it could redirect to the appropriate log entry instead of transcluding it? Actualcpscm ^{scrutinize, talk} 18:27, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Redirects to dynamically-calculated pages don't work, so that would require a bot to edit it every day, which is more effort than value. Perhaps tomorrow there will be fewer AfDs so the page will work again. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 18:29, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Redirects to dynamically-calculated pages don't work: Well, that's a disappointing limitation. I presumed that if it can be transcluded, it can be targeted with a redirect. Thanks for pointing this out. Actualcpscm ^{scrutinize, talk} 18:37, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

What could be the reason for the sudden display of "|work= ignored" in the "{{ cite book}}" parameters? –MinisterOfReligion ^(Talk) 01:15, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

The instructions at Category:CS1 errors: unsupported parameter should help (follow the "help" link). See Help Talk:CS1 for discussion about Citation Style 1 templates. In this specific case, there is a good discussion at Trappist the monk's talk page, semi-unfortunately. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 03:35, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

|url-status=unfit causes:

Script warning: One or more {{cite web}} templates have maintenance messages; messages may be hidden (help).

<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.metrolyrics.com/1984-grammy-awards.html|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20080613164619/http://www.metrolyrics.com/1984-grammy-awards.html|archive-date=2008-06-13|url-status=unfit |title=Grammy Awards |publisher=Metrolyrics |date=February 28, 1984 |access-date=April 29, 2009}}</ref>

.... 0mtwb9gd5wx ( talk) 07:05, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

The Metrolyrics link isn't unfit, it's dead. Unfit is used when the original source has been taken over by a inappropriate site. There's very few uses where it's appropriate, the common one I see that is appropriate is atimes.com that used to be a news sources but now sells steriods. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆ transmissions∆ ° co-ords° 11:16, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

@ Owais Al Qarni Why does your signature have to be bigger than anyone else's ? — TheDJ ( talk • contribs) 19:44, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello all.

For approximately 16 years (ever since 2007) Hebrew Wikipedia uses a Gadget calls "my links" (look here). It is quite a simple method which let every user to save their own custom side bar links (on the left side of the screen) and makes life much easier.

I ask you, if you approve, to translate this super-easy "pseudo-English" code into WP, as so it would be available for us.

I am here for any further questions.

Thanks in advance, Niles. Anderssøn79 🦔 ( talk) 🦔 💛 💙 11:55, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

here you may read the code, fully-translated, ready to move if it fits you. Anderssøn79 🦔 ( talk) 🦔 💛 💙 12:02, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

@ Anderssøn79 a good start would be to translate w:he:שיחת מדיה ויקי:Gadget-CustomSideBarLinks, so that our users could read the directions. — xaosflux ^Talk 12:29, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, merged to Wikipedia:CustomSideBarLinks. — xaosflux ^Talk 14:01, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

@ xaosflux I think it should be moved to the Talk section, and does it mean I may copy the code to the main page (and make it work)? Anderssøn79 🦔 ( talk) 🦔 💛 💙 15:34, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

@ Anderssøn79 we generally document our gadgets in the project namespace here. The mediawiki talk:x.js pages are primarily redirected to the project talk, or only really used for edit requests. — xaosflux ^Talk 15:57, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. So where do we put the actual code and make it available for users? Anderssøn79 🦔 ( talk) 🦔 💛 💙 16:11, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

After reading a comment about French Wikipedia's style rules for discussion threads, I created my own user stylesheet to experiment with styling discussion threads. It has CSS style rules to define alternating background colours for each nested reply (up to 18 levels), and to add a vertical line to the left of each list (that is, corresponding to one level of nesting).

If you use a recent version of Safari or a Chromium-based browser such as Chrome or Edge, and are interested in trying it out, see User:Isaacl/style/discussion-threads. It's subject to change as I try different things. It works for any page where the reply tool or topic subscription is enabled. (The stylesheet checks for an HTML attribute that the discussion tool features add to mark comments.) A caveat: the styling is awkward with comments made using bulleted list items. All the same, so far I find it helpful to track threads. isaacl ( talk) 01:08, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

For a mockup of the resulting appearance, see User:Isaacl/style/discussion-threads § Example. isaacl ( talk) 17:29, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Is there some tool which can find all instances of dates in an article and convert them all to a uniform format? For example 2023-08-18 > August 18, 2023? RoySmith (talk) 18:17, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

User:Ohconfucius/script/MOSNUM dates. Izno ( talk) 19:34, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

An excellent tool, but beware that it likes to insert {{Use mdy dates}} above {{short description}} so they need to be swapped manually. Certes ( talk) 19:51, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

I'm confused by this note in the docs: "Functions converting dates within citation templates has been withdrawn now that WM software engine renders date formats automatically". Fixing the dates in citation templates is exactly what I need this for. So what am I doing wrong that the "WM software engine" isn't rendering things correctly for me? This came up in Talk:Bronx County Bird Club/GA1, and I just went and fixed all the dates manually. Was that not the right thing to do? RoySmith (talk) 19:56, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

WM software engine no such thing. The citation templates will format publication, archive, and access dates according to the presence of {{ use dmy dates}} or {{ use mdy dates}} neither of which were in Bronx County Bird Club when I looked. That functionality in the cs1|2 templates is there so that no one has to fuss with date style in the template wiki text. See the template documentation for the {{use xxx dates}} for more detail.

— Trappist the monk ( talk) 20:05, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

When I've used dates.js, it's formatted all dates, including those within citation templates. I don't recall what combination of existing "use...dates" tags and CS1/2 formats those articles used. I even had to undo the formatting on a couple of dates within URLs to avoid breaking them. Certes ( talk) 20:09, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Oh, my, so I've really made a hash of this then? What I really wanted to do was leave the dates in yyyy-mm-dd format (as the citation tool generated them) in the citation and add {{ use dmy dates}} to the top to get them to render the way I wanted them? RoySmith (talk) 20:16, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

From memory there is a function that will leave dates in citations alone. Izno ( talk) 20:29, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

RoySmith, that is usually the easiest way to fix the rendering a bunch of dates within citation templates. It works only when editing the entire page. Definitely proofread the output for outliers and errors. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 20:38, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

I've been fixing citations in articles listed in Category:CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list. It would be nice to be able to exclude drafts and templates from that list. I won't go fixing citation issues in drafts, and it seems that no one else is doing that, either, as for many initial letters there are only drafts left. Templates have numerical parameters on purpose, so they don't belong in that list, either. It would be both more satisfying and easier to find articles in need of fixing if the drafts and templates could be excluded, either from the category entirely or from my view of its article list. Is that possible? Joriki ( talk) 12:44, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Help Talk:CS1 is the right venue for this discussion. You should be able to use petscan to limit your search of the category to article space. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 13:50, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

You can also use User:PrimeHunter/Articles in category.js. On Category:CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list it produces Search articles and Not articles. PrimeHunter ( talk) 15:12, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

I always wonder the same about Category:Pages with reference errors that has Wikipedia space and draft articles all mixed in, and Category:Pages with broken reference names (which is a subsection of the other category) that has all drafts etc separated out at the end. There's a lot of inconsistencies between different tracking categories. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆ transmissions∆ ° co-ords° 21:11, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Category:Pages with reference errors and other categories at Special:TrackingCategories are added automatically by MediaWiki with no option to sort by namespace. Most of our tracking categories are template-added and this makes it possible to sort by namespace, or omit pages in some namespaces, although we don't always do it. PrimeHunter ( talk) 23:18, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Back in 2018 a change was made to the first category to exclude talk page, see Category talk:Pages with reference errors#Exclusion of user pages, but looking at that I did get the impression it involved changes to MediaWiki. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆ transmissions∆ ° co-ords° 11:11, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Oh, I thought MediaWiki messages with category names like MediaWiki:Cite-tracking-category-cite-error had to be pure text but it allows wikitext. It's undocumented whether a message allows wikitext. That makes it a change local administrators can easily make. We could make subcategories for drafts, templates, project pages, a miscellaneous category, or whatever we want. I doubt sortkeys would be possible but I don't know how MediaWiki processes the message. It's possible that name|sortkey or name{{!}}sortkey would work. I see you have a suggestion at Category talk:Pages with reference errors#Draft, Wikipedia, Template, and Help. If you really want sortkeys to group other namespaces at the end like [21] instead of subcategories then I could make a test at testwiki: without interrupting Wikipedia. PrimeHunter ( talk) 13:04, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

I think I followed that, yeah go ahead and let's see how it works on testwiki. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆ transmissions∆ ° co-ords° 23:34, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

During discussion pages usually I reply by clicking on reply link since that automatically selects requisite indenting. Problem comes when I use Collapse template {{collapse top|Reply with details 1}} .. {{collapse bottom}} in my own comment to keep discussion concise and easy navigable for other users. Indenting is automatically applied before collapse template too and there after subsequent text below {{collapse bottom}} also gets hidden / invisible until remove that extra indenting manually with another edit.

Many times my internet speed slows down or Wikipedia gives error of being busy for maintenance and it takes some time before I succeed in removing such unrequited indenting. (And I am experiencing internet speed problem just now too) And I am always worried some later users may misunderstand me.

Is there any way to update that collapse template so as later text will not become invisible even if indenting is there or any way around for me to avoid such difficult situation?

Bookku ( talk) 06:53, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

There is no way to avoid the issues described today. Izno ( talk) 19:38, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Hamm okay shall live with that. Thanks for taking note and reply. Bookku ( talk) 05:45, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

I noticed some pages ( Lionel Messi, Javier Mascherano) do not sport the original Italian pronunciation of the persons' surnames anymore. Is there a guideline about where to write the original surname pronunciation? On Wikidata perhaps? In Elias Lönnrot I wrote it in a footnote.-- Carnby ( talk) 19:33, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

@ Carnby: does anything here in Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Pronunciation help you? As far as wikidata goes, you can store multiple P898 and P443 properites for an item. — xaosflux ^Talk 20:29, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

@ Xaosflux Honestly, I can't find anything about non-English names originating in a different country, such as Messi, Mascherano, Di María, Bergoglio, Milei (Argentine people of Italian descent), Antetokounmpo (Greek person of Yoruba descent), Lönnrot (Finnish person of Swedish descent)...-- Carnby ( talk) 21:07, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

That's not a technical question. I tend to find it unnecessary unless the subject has strong ties to the "original" language (they're fluent in it, they're a first-gen immigrant, etc.). Nardog ( talk) 01:43, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

I decided to store the original pronunciation(s) on Wikidata.-- Carnby ( talk) 08:59, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Something keeps leaking memory. It might be one of the scripts I'm using, but I'm not sure. Wikipedia tabs (to the exclusion of all others) inevitably glitch out when left sitting for a while and start using upwards of 1.5G of RAM. How can I find out what exactly is causing this? I'm on Vivaldi 6.1.3035.257, but this has been going on for months. 〜 Festucalex • talk 09:52, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Does phab:T205127 describe your problem? Unfortunately it doesn't seem like there's been any success figuring out what's causing that. the wub "?!" 10:28, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

@ The wub: Oh yes, that looks like it. Shame it's been open since 2018 (!) 〜 Festucalex • talk 11:19, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Unless there's an endless loop in a user script or something, a script itself shouldn't cause a memory leak, in my opinion. It's my understanding that memory leaks are usually a problem with the browser's code. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 01:03, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Although they're not the same as a traditional memory leak, store gobblers can still occur with Javascript. (I do not know, though, if this is the case in this situation.) For example, a script could continually register new event listeners, thus consuming memory and hampering performance. isaacl ( talk) 01:45, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Not a webdev, but my understanding is that this became untenable after browser makers and web devs came to see the web as a "platform" which be as powerful as, and eventually supplant, a full desktop OS's native runtime environment (e.g. wasm, and recently WebGPU). When Apple changed Safari to auto-crash tabs that used too much memory, people complained that it broke mission-critical sites like Zoom, and even mundane stuff like Disney+, so Apple relented. DFlhb ( talk) 10:08, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Not sure what you are referring to by "this"? Memory leaks for long-running programs have always been seen as a problem to be solved (although the rate of increase will affect how the work gets prioritized). Store gobblers from a Javascript file served by a website can't be fixed by the browser vendor, so the browser can only balance protecting other tabs from being affected by interfering with the resources allocated to the problem-causing tab. isaacl ( talk) 13:23, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

"This" = website memory leaks being automatically prevented by browsers. Browsers can't do that without preventing high resource use for legitimate, non-bug purposes. DFlhb ( talk) 14:10, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. (I don't think Novem Linguae was referring to this scenario.) isaacl ( talk) 14:15, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Note: See screenshot farther down. See: T344562.

I am using Firefox on Windows 10 Pro PC. Latest standard versions on both. This does not happen to me on the Edge browser. Whether I am logged in or not. I logged out of Wikipedia and I still have the problem with Firefox. So it is not my JS and CSS files. I also disabled all my Firefox addons and then closed all my Firefox windows. I launched Firefox and I still have the problem with Firefox. No addons and not logged in.

The problem tables all use templates within the table. But it is not a problem with tables using {{ flaglist}}.

See List of countries by total health expenditure per capita. Both tables there use {{ flagg}}.

Open visual editor. Click to the right of the either of the 2 tables. Note the bizarre result of the row moving over one cell. Click to the right of a different row and note that row moving over one cell. If you click above or below the table the problem goes away.

I opened visual editor for Help:Table and tried clicking to the right of many tables. Closer and farther away. I have noted the problem there with only one table so far. Have to go there to use visual editor on this table:

• Help:Table#Table cell templates

I see the problem only with the middle row there. Click to the right of it, and click closer until the row moves over one cell. It doesn't happen all the time.

I removed the templates from a few rows of one of the tables in the list article. This solved the problem. And the small table above only has the bug in the middle row using templates. -- Timeshifter ( talk) 15:00, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

If you don't get a good reply here, try posting this as a concise bug report on Phab, tagging it as Visual Editor, and maybe with some screenshots to help visualize the problem. Link to make a Phab bug report. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 00:01, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Novem Linguae. See T344562

Posted here too:

Template talk:Flagg#Row moving over one cell. Table bug using Flagg template

-- Timeshifter ( talk) 22:34, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Is there a way to change one's personal keyboard shortcuts? - Proxima Centari ( talk) 00:19, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

@ Proxima Centari: This page is as close as I can find. LittlePuppers ( talk) 00:41, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! - Proxima Centari ( talk) 00:43, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

• #:~:text= on en.wikipedia.org
• the text that follows is not part of the URL and identifies the User
• this occurs in google books citations also, but different NAME=VALUE pairs
• .... 0mtwb9gd5wx ( talk) 00:13, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

  automated cleanup ? .... 0mtwb9gd5wx ( talk) 00:15, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

  That search query has some false positives. The first entry I found with #:~: is here, but that one seems fine. It doesn't seem to identify the user. Got any other examples? Are you requesting help to clean these up? – Novem Linguae ( talk) 01:15, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

  The purpose of this is not to identify users (although I suppose that may be possible?) - rather, it's to link to a specific piece of text on a page. (That said, it is one of those things that Google kind of unilaterally decided to add to Chrome, with varying lack of support across other browsers.) LittlePuppers ( talk) 01:30, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

  Template:Citation Style documentation#url says to omit tracking parameters but I wouldn't call this a tracking parameter, and it also says "the link may point to the specific page(s) referenced". I think that mainly refers to PDF files where it's possible to give a page number in the link. Do we have a guideline saying to omit Google's text= in cases where supported browsers will jump directly to the part of the page being used in a reference? I guess nearly all cases where text= was left is just users who clicked a Google link and copied the full url without knowing the meaning, but a guideline could lead to more cleanup where it's removed. PrimeHunter ( talk) 08:59, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

  Noticeably this is not supported by Firefox but is supported by Safari. Aaron Liu ( talk) 16:05, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

  @ Novem Linguae, I suspect you meant to do a search like this, the normal search doesn't match special characters. —  Qwerfjkl talk 14:18, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

  That new query timed out on me, but thank you for showing me the correct way to do it. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 15:05, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

  ( edit conflict)

  That search doesn't work for me but if I escape the octothorpe it does. This search (insource:/\#:~:text=/) returns about 23k results.

  — Trappist the monk ( talk) 15:06, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

  The octothorpe isn't a special regex character so I'm not sure how that works, but then the search regex works strangely. —  Qwerfjkl talk 21:00, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

  Search doesn't use the same flavor of regular expressions as the posix/pcre-like ones most people are used to, and # is indeed a metacharacter here. Documentation, grammar. — Cryptic 21:05, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

  So is ~, but I think we got away with it. Certes ( talk) 22:22, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Not a Wikipedia issue, exactly, but I suppose people here would know the answer.

meta:Special:CentralAuth/Nyttend gives my account registration date as 30 March 2008, apparently because that's when I linked my 2-year-old en:wp, commons, and de:wp accounts. For us old-timers, who remember when you had to register accounts separately at the different projects, is there anywhere that provides each account's creation date? Or if I'm curious, do I have to look at each wiki's log page? Nyttend ( talk) 11:37, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

You'd have to look at each wiki's log page. This doesn't affect you but account creation only began to be logged in September 2005. Graham 87 12:01, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

15:23, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Is there any technical reason that we don't have a namespace devoted to scripts? It occurred to me that we have spaces which encourage collaboration among editors for coding Modules, and Templates, and we even have Draft space for collaborating on articles-to-be, we don't have a space devoted to scripts, and so they are developed in User space, typically as a subpage. A negative consequence of this, imho, is that for better or worse, editors are "respectful" (not quite the right word) of user pages "belonging" to other users, and might shy from editing other users' pages more than they might a Draft, a Module, or a Template. I've been around long enough to know that no page belongs to anybody, but it's kind of an emotional thing, almost; I'm much less likely to jump onto your User subpage and start improving "your" draft, "your" template, or "your" module. But in all of those cases, the user has the option to move them to Draft:, or to Template:, or to Module: space. Not so with scripts, and I fear that this has negative consequences for collaboration on scripts. Maybe I'm all wet, and if script writers out there tell me that they happily jump in to scripts regardless what user subpage they happen to live on, then I'll be happy to hear it, and we can close this. But it almost feels like people have to ask permission or something before messing with a user script.

There might be some statistics we could look at to try to assess whether this is, or isn't a problem, and I've asked the nice folks over at WP:QUERY to see if they can enlighten us, and will link this discussion and report back. Thanks, Mathglot ( talk) 02:04, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

For me, it's not about being respectful by choice. When I go to User:Mathglot/ShowRevisionID.js, I see "View source" instead of "Edit". I can't edit that page, even if I am 100% confident in my proposed change. I have Template Editor rights but I am not an admin. If only admins can edit other editors' .js pages, it seems highly unlikely that a collaborative culture of script editing would develop in User space. If that makes sense. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 02:15, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Admins cannot edit .js pages, only the owner or interface admins. That's a security issue because js runs on the user's browser and is an uncontrollable language able to do a lot of damage. By comparison, templates and modules use a well-defined and locked down language that runs on monitored servers. Johnuniq ( talk) 02:22, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

That page says that there are only 12 current interface admins. I think that reinforces my point above. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 02:29, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes, it reinforces your point but it also reinforces mine, namely that js pages are a security problem and opening them up to more than a dozen or so people will not and should not happen. Johnuniq ( talk) 02:37, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Whoa, I'm surprised! That would seem to argue strongly in favor of a new namespace, and a new privilege. Why shouldn't trusted editors be able to collaborate on scripts as they do on modules and templates? I don't really see that the security issue is a problem, because we all get to import or otherwise install somebody else's script on our common.js, and the same thing would apply, even if we imported it out of Script space, instead of user space. The only difference would be that we'd have more trusted eyeballs and hands on the scripts in script space; that seems like a win-win. ( edit conflict)

Putting it another way: what's better: limiting controlling potential damage to one editor-owner (plus 12 IA's), or allowing a coterie of trusted js editors to monitor and look over all the js files, regardless where they live? And additional protection could always be applied to any given page, as is the case now. Mathglot ( talk) 02:48, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

A permission model allowing user-defined groups, for example, doesn't need a new namespace. Without some ability to set editing restrictions, the security issue is indeed a significant problem: I don't want anyone changing my personal user scripts without my authorization as that would allow them to trigger the execution of arbitrary Javascript code in my browser with my credentials. isaacl ( talk) 03:01, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

This collaberative space could live in the MediaWiki namespace. An script living there does not make it a gadget, it is both it's location there and that it is specified in MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition that does. An distinction between an collaberative script and an gadget could be made with an prefix, Gadgets allready have one, or at least the first script in a row (like with MediaWiki:Gadget-refToolbar.js and MediaWiki:RefToolbar.js).

It is really unlikely that an new user-right would happen. Interface admins where added by the WMF and they are not interested in slacking the requirements on it. 2FA is a known deterrant for people to get IA rights and will continue being so.

It would be nice to have an database query on scripts by inactive users (that metric is well defined nowadays), so that those scripts could be moved from Inactive_user/script.js to new_maintainer/script.js, where a new maintainer is interested. Snævar ( talk) 11:15, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

There are use cases where user-defined access groups are helpful to allow greater flexibility in managing who can update a specific page, though possibly more so with non-WMF deployments of MediaWiki. (For an example of how this works with a different Wiki platform, see Foswiki's documentation on access control.) isaacl ( talk) 16:43, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Isaacl, Re: "...as that would allow them to trigger the execution of arbitrary Javascript code in my browser": Don't we already have that situation now, in the case of imported scripts in common.js? Sure, it's "my" js, but I'm importing a bunch of useful scripts, and I'm trusting that the changes they make to the scripts behind my back are beneficial. I import them because I trust them, even with changes I don't see, but even a well-intentioned script change might be destructive. How is it better to have that under the control of one person, rather than a community of trusted script editors, who might jump in from any time zone when they noticed something awry? Seems to me the supposed security of having only 12 IA's isn't really there, it's a mirage, unless you don't import any scripts at all, and then you're safe.

But, your objection is still a fair one, so let's see what can be done. What if imported scripts were disabled automatically every time they were modified, and then either you could reënable it yourself (just for you, redeclaring your trust, either after looking at the script, or just trusting its author), or it would be globally reënabled maybe after an Rfc-like script Talk page discussion where the script author would explain/defend their change, and the community would respond approve, decline, needs-work? I know that bots have to go through an initial approval and beta-test period, before being allowed to run. What about afterward: is initial approval carte blanche to do whatever modification you want to the code as long as you don't call it a "new task"? Who decides what kind of bot-code change is too big to allow without approval? How is importing a script which runs in your browser and is only editable by one user, safer than one that is editable by a community of trusted users?

If we had a community of privileged script writers and automatic disabling of scripts every time they were changed, along with some mechanism to reënable them, would that satisfy your objection regarding scripts written by others running in your browser with your credentials? If we're halfway-there, and there's just a missing piece, what is it? Mathglot ( talk) 01:18, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Currently, I control when I modify my common.js file, and make an explicit decision to trust one specific user. Any change to allow users to modify other people's user scripts will be different than the current situation. I think having user-defined access groups would provide a framework for defining circles of trust, both regarding who can alter a user script, and what circle someone needs to trust before making use of the script. isaacl ( talk) 02:01, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

You can already import a specific revision of a script if you don't want to risk the author going rogue or being compromised, although you then have to review each update or miss bugfixes and improvements. Everything about user scripts is a tradeoff between convenience/innovation and security. The fact we let users execute arbitrary code and that code is out in the open is unthinkable to most engineers. Reviewing each script and each change would be a tremendous undertaking neither WMF nor the community can dream to afford. But they make your life on wiki a lot easier, don't they? Nardog ( talk) 02:05, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

In phab:T315893, for folks that have enabled Special:Preferences -> Editing -> Show discussion activity, the editing team has decided to add a space after the colon to every talk page title. It sounds like they have plans to roll this out to non-talk pages and possibly for non-"Special:Preferences -> Editing -> Show discussion activity" users eventually. An example of this space can be seen by clicking here. The editing team has stated that this needs to be overridden on a per-wiki basis if we don't like it, I assume using MediaWiki:Common.css.

Thoughts on this change? Should we consider overriding it? I'd like to override it, personally. As a programmer it bugs me that the software is suggesting a title that isn't the "correct" title. This isn't a change we asked for. It seems confusing. Happy to hear other thoughts though. If there is consensus to change it in this discussion, I will put in an {{ IAER}} to MediaWiki talk:Common.css after a couple days. Thanks. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 12:44, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

It's not a space character. It's a CSS-generated gap. Copying and pasting works fine. There was a bunch of hand-wringing by a couple of editors on the phab ticket, but I haven't noticed anyone freaking out about it here. It's been deployed for a while. The weird part about it is its inconsistency: it is present in Talk pages but not here at VPT, even though the function of the colon separator is the same in both places. It should either be present everywhere or nowhere. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 14:01, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

The inconsistency is exactly why we should hide it. If you were serious about making our NS-prefixed page names conform to orthography, you wouldn't do it in just a few namespaces or tweak just the heading. You would consult experts like the language committee, assess the breath and risks of the change, allocate resources, and publicize it to the communities. The fact they aren't doing that says this is an ill-conceived idea. Nardog ( talk) 15:50, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Or you could just add the CSS spacing to all namespaces and see what happens. It does not seem to have caused any harm in its beta deployment. I am frustrated by a lot of beta stuff that the WMF deploys and then leaves 80% done (cf Visual Editor, Vector 2022), but this seems like a small thing. If it causes trouble, we can remove the spacing locally, it appears. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 16:01, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Add .mw-page-title-separator { margin-right: 0.25em; } to your CSS and see how long before you have urge to write page names with the extra space or to see the rest of the interface the same way. Nardog ( talk) 16:27, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Many other editors and I have seen the spacing on talk pages for a while now. I have no such urge and have seen no evidence of such an urge. Claims that the sky is falling require evidence. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 17:38, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Agreed with @ Jonesey95 that the consistency should be fixed, but otherwise it doesn't bother me. The whole concept of namespaces is one of the most confusing things about MediaWiki. This sort of helps grasp the concept because it clearly differentiates the namespace from the title. Yes, the visual spacing is jarring if you already understand namespaces, as you wouldn't type it out like that, but as it happens, it doesn't actually matter! Talk: Polar Bear still works :) That said, I do share the same concerns with @ Nardog at phab:T315893#9059239 that the sake of consistency might over time might lead editors to always use spaces after colons. Before you know it, we've got yet another section added to WP:MOS, followed by tons of WP:AWB edits to make it all consistent. I don't think any of us want that, but I also think it's too early on to really say how problematic it will be. Thus far it seems to have caused few to no problems, so I'm led to believe it's one of those changes that we'll all simply get used to over time. The extra spacing bothered me when it was first deployed, but I quickly got over it, and now I even sort of like it. It's just easier on the eyes.

At any rate, we can very easily override it with sitewide CSS if needed, so I'm not really worried. I say let them upstream it to MediaWiki Core if they want – and by doing so fixing the consistency issue Jonesey95 mentioned – then we'll see how folks react. Once it effects all namespaces and all MediaWiki installations, we'll surely know if it's a problem or not. I'm aware of the issues with orthography in other languages, but here we're only debating it for English, where it doesn't seem to be that big of an issue. — MusikAnimal ^talk 15:54, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

I submit that "tons of WP:AWB edits to make it all consistent" are exactly what's going to happen, and what if the community says no and we have to revert the edits again? Or worse, a drawn-out RfC? I certainly don't want to see editor hours wasted like that. NL's proposed edit to the site-wide CSS is a great way to be proactive and prevent it. Nardog ( talk) 16:25, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Currently the <gallery> tag and Template:gallery which implements it, can be sized using pixel values in the |height= or |heights= parameters. The help page says that Images displayed by the <Gallery>...</Gallery> tag do not obey user viewing preferences. Is there any plan to support user preferences and the |upright= parameter as image thumbnails currently do? Or is there a reason why this will not happen? Rjjiii ( talk) 03:17, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

It appears that for some reason, galleries are rendered only using px values. mw:Manual:$wgGalleryOptions sets the default pixel size of each image (more or less, apparently). Also see mw:Help:Images#Rendering a gallery of images. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 04:37, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

No one has touched its code in years. The last thing that as added to it was the slideshow mode, but its core fundamentals are ancient. As such it has not kept up with other parts of the code. — TheDJ ( talk • contribs) 11:25, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Well dang. I was thinking that galleries might be a cleaner way to juxtapose images, compared to Template:Multiple image or a single image created for comparison. Thanks for all of the explanation though. Rjjiii ( talk) 02:43, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi Techie, Check this link i want to add Infobox with details like name, cons No, Map, electors, current MLA etc., i have some knowledge about auto wiki browser. I cant use easily this tool. Kindly suggest any alternate tool/method available. Thanks in advance IJohnKennady ( talk) 18:58, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

The "skip to bottom" link in the teahouse header (temporarily removed) doesn't work for me, as the anchor it links to doesn't exist. However, Esolo5002 says it works fine. Edward-Woodrow :) _{[ talk} 21:23, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

@ Edward-Woodrow: MDN states Note: You can use href="#top" or the empty fragment (href="#") to link to the top of the current page, as defined in the HTML specification. What browser are you using? It works fine for me in Firefox.

(Also: apparantly you can paste something with formatting and this'll convert it to wikitext. That's cool.) LittlePuppers ( talk) 21:33, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Firefox, and a pretty recent version thereof. Edward-Woodrow :) _{[ talk} 21:38, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Bah. I was looking at the link to the top. Let me look at the right one. LittlePuppers ( talk) 21:39, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I've reverted to a version with the link. Edward-Woodrow :) _{[ talk} 21:40, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Nope. Doesn't work. #footer-info doesn't exist. Edward-Woodrow :) _{[ talk} 21:41, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I see a link to #footer, which works for me; it appears that something (probably MediaWiki) adds <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" role="contentinfo" > at the bottom of the page. What skin are you using? LittlePuppers ( talk) 21:42, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

...ah, and now I was looking at the other link to the bottom. LittlePuppers ( talk) 21:43, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

MonoBook. Edward-Woodrow :) _{[ talk} 21:44, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I switched to the tolerable version of Vector and the issue miraculously resolved itself. Edward-Woodrow :) _{[ talk} 21:46, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Okay... it works in every skin except Monobook. Edward-Woodrow :) _{[ talk} 21:47, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Okay, so I see links to the bottom using #footer, #footer-info, and #skip-to-bottom-anchor. Those appear to be in all skins, Vector (at least the tolerable version, which I also use), and {{ Skip to top and bottom}}, respectively. I'd change it to #footer. LittlePuppers ( talk) 21:49, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

...and #footer doesn't work in Minerva. LittlePuppers ( talk) 21:52, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

The {{ Skip to top and bottom}} template itself adds a <div> element with a skip-to-bottom-anchor ID. isaacl ( talk) 21:55, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Yep, and the teahouse {{ skip to top and bottom}}. So I guess the best course is remove the link, unless some interface editor wants to mess around. Edward-Woodrow :) _{[ talk} 22:09, 23 August 2023 (UTC)