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The result was Speedy keep, nomination was made by sock of banned user. Finlay McWalter • Talk 15:52, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

List of awards and nominations received by Evanescence

List of awards and nominations received by Evanescence (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Delete as nom. Auwest182 ( talk) 15:37, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Speedy Close - bad faith nomination.-- blue 520 15:51, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Jayjg (talk) 02:56, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Trey A. Corrales

Trey A. Corrales (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Per WP:BLP1E and WP:PERPETRATOR, this is not a notable killer. His co-accused's article is already at AfD. Blood Red Sandman (Talk) (Contribs) 23:52, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Delete per above. -- Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) ( talk) 17:28, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. Jayjg (talk) 02:56, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Tha Grustle

Tha Grustle (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • AfD statistics)
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An unreleased album that isn't reliably sourced for a release date, track list. Lack of significant coverage in reliable sources. List of "confirmed" tracks is unsourced. List of "possible" tracks (which is longer) is unsourced. The only thing reliably sourced, by a single source, is the title. As such, if fails WP:NALBUMS and WP:CRYSTAL. Runs afoul of WP:HAMMER too. Niteshift36 ( talk) 22:50, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was No consensus (default keep). Non-admin closure. Swarm( Talk) 22:37, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Huggle, Sweden

Huggle, Sweden (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Once-sentence, unnotable, no refrences, an orphan. Belugaboy535136 contribs 22:41, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

FallingRain.com does not limit itself to officially recognized (i.e., as a location in a national census) communities. It's a wonderful service, but when you run your own hometown and then look at the fallingrain.com description of nearby localities, you'll see that most of them are not something that you and your neighbors would never refer to as a "town". An apartment building is a "populated place", but that doesn't mean that it's a community. I'm all in favor of the right to an article for actual incorporated cities and towns, as well as unincorporated communities that have their own post office, but we have to make sure that the inherent right of notability for populated places doesn't get abused-- which appears to be the case here. Mandsford ( talk) 02:29, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Can you interpret or translate them for us? When I search for the word "Huggle" in the first hit, I get no result; and a similar search in the other hits produces results that I'm unable to relate to the concept of verifiabilty. Deor ( talk) 02:35, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Of the pages from Heby municipality, http://www.heby.se/index.php3?use=fortroende&cmd=showperson&id=173&lang=1&s_tpl=print is the page for a municipal council member who lives in Huggle Östervåla sockennämnd 1848-1856.pdf AND Östervåla kommunalstämmoprotokoll 1863 till 1882.pdf are transcriptions of minute books with details such as "The parish committee members elected until the year 1850:" and their addresses - some are in Huggle, meaning that Huggle existsed in 1850. del5.pdf has a reference to Huggle ("014 Holvarbo - Huggle - By (I)") in a table at the bottom of page 4 (folio page 85). http://www.booli.se/salda/villa/huggle/327768/ lists the price (and the price per square meter) of a house in Huggle. http://www.holfve.se/brev.htm lists Anders Mattsson, born in Huggle in 1745. http://www.unc.se/foretag/visax.php3?id=1213177 is someone's address in Huggle. So there is plenty of evidence that Huggle is a long-established settlement, closely connected with Östervåla - Eastmain ( talk • contribs) 03:41, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
An apartment building is populated, but that doesn't mean it's notable. Belugaboy535136 contribs 12:41, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete unless reliable sources can be found documenting this place. Our common outcomes do not override essential content policies such as WP:V. Them From Space 13:03, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep as noted above for common outcomes. However, this may be more of a hamlet, which may be dificult to verify, and thus could be merged and redirected into Heby Municipality. Bearian ( talk) 17:53, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Weak delete It's not on the List of urban areas in Sweden which includes all geographically separate localities of 200 people or more. It's a "name on a map" that seems to cover about 3-5 farms, judging from satellite photos such as this Eniro map (zoom in a little from standard view). I guess it is used as a name in the property register for these few farms; the same goes for all the other dozens of names that you see on the map surrounding Östervåla, they are also not separate localities but likely property names associated with a few farms each. Huggle is used as a postal adress at "street" level within Östervåla, it doesn't have the status as a separate postal "village". (NN, Huggle XXX, SE-740 46 Östervåla, Sweden if anyone wants to send a letter.) Tomas e ( talk) 18:47, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep - Geographic articles are an important part of Wikipedia, and are almost inherintly notable. More importantly per WP:5P, "Wikipedia is an encyclopedia that incorporates elements of general and specialized encyclopedias, almanacs, and gazetteers." It is established that this place does exist, and thats good enough for me. -- Marcusmax( speak) 23:09, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • !vote : (this is not a vote, I do not know the policy for tiny places, so I'm not sure if a place is considered notable) But all the talk above that we need RS and V to prove 'the existence of this as a definable settlement' made me try to find some sources, these sources are NOT sources to put in the article, it is not sources that prove notability, but they should prove that it is not a made up place, and they prove that the municipal recognize the place. So Huggle is a place in Sweden, there is enough RS (in Swedish) to prove that, it is small if not VERY small place! Should it be described in Wikipedia? I do not know:
    • [1] from a government? entity that proves at least that someone in one of their working groups lives there
    • [2] , [3] a overview plan for use of territory from the Heby Municipality that states that huggle is a large unused area. -- Stefan talk 06:54, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply
      • Interesting, so by "place" is Huggle a municipality like a town or a village, or is it just a local name for an area of land? The former would warrant an article but probably not the latter. Is there a relevant WikiProject to bring this up at? Editors who are familiar with Sweden might be of some assistance. Them From Space 11:44, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply
See Hegvalds comment below, it is NOT a municipality, as I stated Heby Municipality is the municipality that Huggle is part of, in Swedish it is a sv:by. I did not want to call it village since I thought by and village was not really the same, that is why I called it place (that was neutral enough), Hegvald did a good job of explaining what I kind of guessed but did not know, thanks. -- Stefan talk 00:21, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Comment: Historically speaking, Huggle is a by, which is a historic division on a sub-parish level, consisting of a few farms. "Hamlet" may be the closest English equivalent. (By can also be translated "village", but a by in Sweden is usually nothing like an English or continental European village.) Today, it is just an address. According to http://www.ratsit.se, there are currently 22 people above the age of 18 living in Huggle. -- Hegvald ( talk) 14:25, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep per Eastmain. Lets all move there. JBsupreme ( talk) 21:48, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Not one source has convinced me that this is a separate geographical place such as a village. Wikipedia is based on verifiability and this so far has not been verified. All links given above that I have followed fail to show this. That Huggle is real is not the point, unless we have references that show for certain it is a separate inhabited place it fails any claim of notability. If it can be shown that it is a separate "Hamlet" then fine but I don't think this has been done yet including the link Hegvald has given which shows nothing. Polargeo ( talk) 16:11, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • The link shows exactly what I claimed it would show (once you insert the right search term, obviously): that there are now 22 adult people with the address Huggle. Not sure what your point is. Would Huggle, with 22 adult inhabitants, suddenly turn "notable" if there was a source saying that it is, indeed, a separately defined place of a certain type? -- Hegvald ( talk) 16:34, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep real place=notable WP:PILLARS and WP:DEFACTO. Why do people want to keep dumbing down the encyclopedia. Has the nominator read the 5 Pillars? Let me quote the opening line of the 1st pillar: "Wikipedia is an encyclopedia that incorporates elements of general and specialized encyclopedias, almanacs, and gazetteers" (emphasis added) perhaps someone is missing something... Carlossuarez46 ( talk) 21:05, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
I think that the key word in that first pillar is "elements". The policies that have evolved over the years guide which elements of an encyclopedia, almanac or gazetteer automatically merit their own article and which ones would be open to debate, hence the concept that "Wikipedia is not a directory of everything that exists or has existed". All of us, whether we argue for a keep or a delete, have our opinions about what is improving or "dumbing down" an encyclopedia. Although it's debatable as to whether Huggle would be notable now, the Swedish census information that was provided by Eastmain indicates that this would have been considered notable in the 19th century, and notability does not expire. Mandsford ( talk) 13:42, 5 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was Keep plenty of secondary reviews ( WP:NACD) CTJF83 chat 19:32, 6 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Catch Me If You Can (album)

Catch Me If You Can (album) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • AfD statistics)
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non-notable album; unencyclopaedic Rapido ( talk) 22:30, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. although this should not prevent a later redirect if a conensus for such later emerges on the talk page Scott Mac (Doc) 21:49, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Alejandro (song)

Alejandro (song) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • AfD statistics)
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The reason for this AFD discussion is because a few editors redirect the page claiming it is not notable. The relevant notabilty is found in WP:NSONG, this song has charted in the Official UK charts. SunCreator ( talk) 21:09, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Comment - The The Fame Monster does not have CHART positions or structure of article. Of course you could merge any two articles together, but there would be no logic in doing so. You are correct that The Sun (newspaper) is a questionable source despite being the tenth biggest(by circularion) newspaper in the world, but what it says is not a factor to determine notability. SunCreator ( talk) 03:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
What do you mean by structure of article? --Legolas (talk2me) 04:03, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Commment Now two national notable charts, but even one is notable enought for WP:NSONG SunCreator ( talk) 03:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Can still be includewd in discography and Monster. --Legolas (talk2me) 04:03, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment - Sensible comment. I don't think this is a case or ignore all rules myself however. Looking at the article how it stands now, it's quite presentable. SunCreator ( talk) 03:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
I was anxiously waiting for you to reply my argument. Quite presentable? Well, that's in fact a case of opinion of view. Not trying to be rude or something, but to me, you just created a music and lyrics section and thrown one unreliable source for it. [11]; put three random reviews to the song which could be easily merged to The Fame Monster (Two of which are not exactly reviewing the song and also are/could be presented into the album critical reception) The live performances section also isn't needed since it's only one (technically) and it already is in the Monster Ball Tour article.
See? I'm just trying to see what's the point of this article if it doesn't have a worth background section, and every single thing here can be merged somewhere without a problem. Sparks Fly 23:08, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment
  1. The edit you refer to was made by IP 71.93.182.103. Be more careful before accusing me.
  2. The reason why a seperate article makes sense, is both structure and content. The structure allows for a logical progression and a central place to find information about the song. Content wise, placing it elsewhere creates problems of it being removed because it's not relevant to the other article. You could create a Alejandro section in the The Fame Monster article, but it will be an out of place looking section added to the bottom(?) that would make other editors want to remove it.
  3. If you don't believe the last point, please make a start by putting the music sample into the The Fame Monster article and see how it goes.
  4. WP:SIZERULE applies. How about you initiate a discussion on Talk:The_Fame_Monster and see if other editors are happy to split the article in two. As an active phone editor I'll be happy to support a split.
  5. The Policy says best practice is to use WP:NSONGS to determine if a seperate article is notable. You think it's not a problem to merge elsewhere, let me ask you, how is it a problem to have it as a seperate article?
SunCreator ( talk) 00:32, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Because users will be reading the same content twice, once in Fame Monster and here. Hence its a waste of article space. --Legolas (talk2me) 04:03, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Redirect is approproiate, as opposed to keep, because of WP:NSONGS, please read the third sentence in the third paragraph. "Notability aside, a separate article on a song is only appropriate when there is enough verifiable material to warrant a reasonably detailed article; articles unlikely ever to grow beyond stubs should be merged to articles about an artist or album". To assume that it will grow beyond its present state is in violation of WP:CRYSTAL. This information should be merged and redirected to The Fame Monster. J04n( talk page) 18:53, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Thanks. SunCreator ( talk) 19:47, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment I read that third sentence. Think about what you said 'unlikely ever to grow' does not apply here, we are not talking about some song from 30 years ago with no new information which that wording is intended for; this is as yet unreleased single on the currently most popular(by Google hits, google news, wikipedia page views etc) artists in the world. To contend that this article is 'unlikely ever to grow' is a fantasy. Indeed, there is lots that can be said already and some editors start to add it but it gets removed as they awaiting WP:RS, not blogs etc. If that was not the case you would see an article like fr:Alejandro_(Lady_Gaga) already. SunCreator ( talk) 03:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep We already know that this will be released as a single, so why should we redirect it when we'll just have to make it again? That seems a little pointless to me. Besides, more information will be found as the weeks and months go by, and more people will continue to make pages like this. I don't see a valid reason to delete it. Sure, there isn't too much information, but it isn't like Wikipedia absolutely has to have every article be huge. Look at all the others on Wikipedia. The bottom line is, even though there isn't much information now, more will come in the near future. The page will expand in time. Even if you delete this page, others will create more and we'll have discussions like this one again. Why don't we just leave it alone? Weaselpie ( talk) 00:29, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply
First, your point is simple the best definition of what is WP:CRYSTAL. Take a look at this and see if what you brought is still valid. And second, who are we? There's no current information about this being single, and even if this is in fact a single, it's still not enough for it's own page, being a single doesn't warrant that. Third, if the consensus of this page will be delete/redirect, people could create the article 100x and we would delete all these times, we just need to know what do do. I won't consider this last as one of your points but still. Sparks Fly 00:51, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply
It is also interesting how it is all "edit once in a full moon"-people that pops up to say keep. Nymf talk/ contr. 21:53, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply


WP:FANCRUFT is a serious issue here. --Legolas (talk2me) 06:34, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment - That's why we have notability critera to determine the difference. SunCreator ( talk) 03:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
And we seriously don't need duplicate content to exist. --Legolas (talk2me) 04:03, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
"Once in a full moon"? I am certainly not that kind of person. I have made many contributions to Wikipedia in my time as a member. And I'm not just doing this to be stubborn. Almost every day I am seeing new news posts about how Lady GaGa wants to cast Lara Stone in her music video for Alejandro (most came from various European newspapers, but some also came from American ones). I feel that there is no reason to delete this page because a) it will just end up being a waste of time for the people who worked on it and b) there is a very likely chance that it will end up being a single. You'll just waste your time deleting it while others make more. And, eventually, if it is released, it will have been a mistake to have deleted it in the first place. Why should this page about Alejandro, a likely candidate to be a single, be deleted when Ke$ha's song, Blah Blah Blah, hasn't even been released at all? If this is because the page doesn't have much information, it's like I said before: more info will come in time. Again, I see no reason to delete the page. By the way - "Once in a full moon" should be "once in a blue moon". A full moon comes around once a month, right? Sounds pretty frequent if you ask me. Weaselpie ( talk) 01:32, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Not that it has anything to do with the topic at all, but once in a full moon is exactly what I was referring to. People who pop up once a month to do 2-3 edits. Besides, we aren't suggesting that the page be deleted; we are suggesting that it should be redirected. That way it can be restored when/if it becomes notable. As for your comment about casting and that other article supposedly justifying this article, see Wikipedia:Other stuff exists and Wikipedia:Speculation. Nymf talk/ contr. 02:09, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment - Chart information. Article structure. Information on the song. None of which you would want in The Fame Monster. SunCreator ( talk) 03:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
The Fame Monster already has them and is needed there. Adding a wikia link doesnot qualify for notable source. --Legolas (talk2me) 04:03, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
You two provided the same point, but I still don't find it worth. The song was never used as a official promotional single; it went only for iTunes before the whole album and still, this is a "fan-known thing", there's no source backing it as a single to promote the album. Sparks Fly 21:56, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Completely agree with Sparks. --Legolas (talk2me) 06:34, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment - In what way do you consider it doesn't meet WP:NSONG. It has charted in the UK charts and I just found out it charted in the Hungarina charts also. SunCreator ( talk) 00:25, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep It has charted in two territories therefore it meets notability guidlines. It doesn't have to be in the singles chronology but since it's charted it should have it's own page the same as Beautiful, Dirty Rich or Wait Your Turn from Rihanna. Jayy008 ( talk) 00:31, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Well I Disagree, I wasn't basing it on WP:CRYSTAL. I was basing it on meeting notability guidlines. Jayy008 ( talk) 17:38, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment - Never have I seen it argued at AFD that an article should be of GA quality before! Wikipedia has no such criteria. We do not delete article below GA standard. Wikipedia is work in progress; see WP:NOTDONE. SunCreator ( talk) 03:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Except for charting, it doesnot meet any other notability guideline, fail again. --Legolas (talk2me) 04:21, 5 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment - You want an article to be notable for two reasons? One is enough. SunCreator ( talk) 03:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete/merge, almost every song from The Fame Monster has charted so should we have a page for each one? Same with Beyonce's I Am Sasha Fierce. This is become a pointless argument. It is a breach of WP:crystal. The info could easily be contained on the album's page. Lil-unique1 ( talk) 18:53, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Yeah, it's the whole point that we want to know. People are assuming that just because two dubious websites have talked about a music video, that it's already a single. Sparks Fly 22:11, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment - I'm glad you both brought that up, as it's a common misconception. WP:NSONG does not say it has to be a released single or have a released video. WP:NSONG does say however, the song has to chart - which this song has. SunCreator ( talk) 03:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment that is a silly pointless comment because BPI and RIAA have said that due to the growth in sales from places like AMazon and iTunes more and more album songs are being sold individually without being released fully as singles. This could mean that eventually we could have pages for every song on an album whether its released or not. there is not enough information here to warrant its own page. Lil-unique1 ( talk) 22:07, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment - Take a look at this graph. It's the average number of new tracks each week in the UK Singles Chart. In the 1994-2005 period before downloads the average was around 18 per week. Today it is about 9; about half of what it was before downloads. Meaning that wikipedia will create much less song articles since the download era then it did before. SunCreator ( talk) 22:30, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment - The exception being those where is nothing there will ever be anything to write about. That does not apply here. Consider fr:Alejandro (Lady Gaga) for starters. SunCreator ( talk) 03:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Alejandro has charted in the top 5 in hungary! it should be kept as it is clearly a huge hit there and has met more success than most of her songs there. It is also highly likely to be released as a single. For the time it should be kept as it is a highly charting song by Lady Gaga, but when/if it is released as a single, there will be a strong argument to keep it anyway.
  • Redirect - Even if the song has charted in the top 5 in Hungray, that virtually means nothing for basis in an article. Re-establish article when there is more notability, the single has been confirmed, etc. Candyo32 ( talk) 23:43, 5 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment - The chart means everything, it's the agreed criteria for whether a song is notable or not. SunCreator ( talk) 03:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Yeah, but as I said before, what's the point of a whole article just to show that the song hit Top 75 in the U.K. when her discography page already does it? Just ignore this notability rule essay that you point for a second and think. Sparks Fly 13:58, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment - It's not just the Charts. I highlighted that because it's the information that makes the article notable. There is other information, some of which I added today on the critical reception of the single. Wikipedia is a work in progress so don't expect it all done. Also this article exceeds a stub, wikipedia has 3,186,672 articles of which at least 1,444,438 are stubs. Go get argeement to delete them all and then I'd review your point. SunCreator ( talk) 19:31, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Erhm... I do think that you can provide your opinion here moreover a keep argument, since you were the one who nominated the article for delete. (?) Sparks Fly 14:00, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Comment
  1. I created this AFD to get discussion. I was open and hopefully there was some logical reason that a few editors redirect this article. I did not say delete or keep, so necessary to clarify my position having heard the opinions of others.
  2. AFD is a discussion not a WP:!VOTE so frankly saying I cannot 'provide your opinion' is silly. SunCreator ( talk) 19:31, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  1. If you nominate an article for deletion, that presumably means that you are going to present a argument to delete the article. So, when you came here to say that you want to keep the article seemed unfamiliar. If you wanted to get a consensus for keeping the article you should have stuck to the talk page. Sparks Fly 20:00, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment - That would of been ideal. But I could not 'stick to the talk page' as the article(and talk) was salted and uneditable. An admin agreed to unsalt if it went to Afd. SunCreator ( talk) 20:12, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Redirect to The Fame Monster. As was pointed out, most of the information is covered at that article, information about this song charting can be covered there if it is not already present, and there is not enough information. Yes, this meets WP:NSONGS by having charted on two national music charts, but that policy also states, "Notability aside, a separate article on a song is only appropriate when there is enough verifiable material to warrant a reasonably detailed article; articles unlikely ever to grow beyond stubs should be merged to articles about an artist or album." We can't just make an article for every song that's ever charted simply because it charted, there has to be sufficient information, and this simply just doesn't have enough. – Chase ( talk) 05:48, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Two points on 'unlikely ever to grow beyond stubs' :
    1. It's is wild speculation to assume this article is not ever going to grow. Plenty of things I already know to add to it. It's not some song from the 1940 or something.
    2. Stub. On the issue of stubs, you are assuming it's not beyond a stub already. I contend it's past that point, no one has labelled it a stub. I asked over at Stub sorting if it was a stub. I got the clear reply No, that's far beyond a stub, in my opinion. — Martin
SunCreator ( talk) 18:49, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
comment, it not as if this information couldn't be included on the album's page until there is clearer indication that this is a single. Lil-unique1 ( talk) 22:52, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment – it is also wild speculation to assume that this article will grow. It's not a single, it's not confirmed to be a single, so until it is confirmed as a single or it receives a substantial amount of coverage for whatever reason, we should assume it will likely not grow. Also, as Sparks Fly pointed out, it's beyond ridiculous to have a page with information that is conveyed/could be conveyed at other, larger articles just because its subject charted as a non-single. Please note that WP:NSONGS states that charting probably makes a song notable. There is not enough information about it to be notable at this point. – Chase ( talk) 21:46, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Comment It seems after research that there is some info for the background of the article. I will try to add them and let's see. Also, I forgot that the song is extensively being performed at The Monster Ball Tour. Hence it does pass WP:NSONGS. --Legolas (talk2me) 04:03, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Weak keep. Per WP:NSONGS, an independent article is "only appropriate when there is enough verifiable material to warrant a reasonably detailed article". I'm not terribly convinced that the sources provide in-depth coverage for the song, but I do believe the article now meets the "reasonably detailed" standard. Also, songs that have charted are "probably notable" (though not inherently notable). Taking all factors into account, I support keeping as a separate article.  Gongshow  Talk 05:41, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Comment – I would like to note that the information worth keeping—songwriting information, performance of song on tour, chart positions, and critical reception—could all be easily discussed in the main article, The Fame Monster. The "limited release" claim is unsourced, the music video claim has sources (Digital Spy, The Sun) that are not notable, and the track listing is plain false information since it hasn't even been released as a single. There is no reason why this shouldn't be merged. – Chase ( talk) 21:36, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete both per WP:SNOW. Both articles salted. – MuZemike 01:05, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Azulon Dolmayan

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This page has been A7'd twice in the past three days. Now it appears to claim he was in Harry Potter, although there's no entry for this individual on IMDB. Also a COI. Shadowjams ( talk) 21:08, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

See also

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The result was delete. Jayjg (talk) 02:56, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Local Ghost Haunts

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I can find no reliable sources to establish the notability of this web series. Sarilox ( talk) 20:52, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Delete Non-notable YouTube material. The article gives no independent sources at all. Searches produce the organisation's own web site, YouTube, MySpace, etc etc, but no evidence of significant independent coverage. Article was created as promotion by COI editor (he/she uses "we" in a talk page in reference to "Local Ghost Haunts"). JamesBWatson ( talk) 12:13, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was keep. JForget 02:58, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Dave Snowden

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Written like a resumé and unsourced, tagged since 2008/2007 Pevos ( talk) 20:41, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was Speedy Delete per G12 by Nyttend. MrKIA11 ( talk) 18:52, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Edwin B. Alderson, Jr.

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Despite everything that he has done in his life, I can't find significant coverage for this person. Joe Chill ( talk) 20:44, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Jayjg (talk) 02:56, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

List of Sharpie Permanent Markers

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Non-notable list Eagles 24/7 (C) 20:36, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was Withdrawn. I didn't notice that there was already an AfD and that notability was shown in it. I'll add the links from the previous AfD to the article. Joe Chill ( talk) 20:35, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Benat Achiary

AfDs for this article:
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All that I can find in Google is Youtube, Answers.com, music sites that are just profiles or trivial mentions of his such as CD Universe and Emusic, and lyrics. All that I can find in Google News is lots of Magnum Photos results which is a site for photography. This paragraph that I found in Google Books shows that he might be notable. Fails WP:BIO. Joe Chill ( talk) 20:31, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. Cirt ( talk) 17:04, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Ikonboard

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Seemingly non-notable software. No coverage in reliable independent sources that I can see. Some IPs are edit warring over it, so I assume a WP:PROD would be contested. Pcap ping 20:10, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Software-related deletion discussions. -- Pcap ping 20:11, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Most of this article is based on forum posts, but it does have a source that passes WP:RS, this interview on Sitepoint's web site. There are lot of google books hits, but many of those are because "ikonboard.cgi" appears in some url cited in the book. That fact and the interview suggest this software was widely used, so it may be of historical importance. This 2002 Que Publishing book explicitly says it's one of the most "famous and notable" together with WWWBoard, WebBBS, and YABB. I'm going to leave this open for now, hopefully more convincing secondary sources will be found. Pcap ping 23:33, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Comment: I'm a former developer of Ikonboard, later Ikonforums. It's true that this software was once widely used. Searches for Ikonboard will still generate hundreds of thousands of hits. Mostly running the popular (and more or less last) releases of Ikonboard, 3.1.2a and 3.1.3. It's now mostly just a cult hit. The original creator of Ikonboard later went on to found Invision Power Services, so the connection to a semi-notable person (the link to Matthew Mecham is still red though) does exist. Do reliable sources exist? Probably not. It's long since faded into obscurity on the web, so its unlikely new sources will come out. Whether or not this amounts to anything notable, I don't know. ^ demon [omg plz]  13:23, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • (Weak) Keep: As per ^demon I'm also a former developer of Ikonboard. I think that historically Ikonboard had notability and as the book link suggests it used to be a very popular software competing with other software which is still notable. That said these days it is nowhere near as notable as it once was, in my opinion ownership battles and mis-management affected development and lost many of its users. The article has some independent interviews to provide third-party sourcing, unfortunately some third-party sites such as swarf.net have ceased operating. The web archive is the only reliable method of recording official announcements as ownership of the ikonboard.com domain appears to have been lost. I doubt it will be possible to provide any reliable third-party sourcing of any future development. I would suggest the article remains semi-protected though it would appear much of the IP based editing/vandalism has been done by the current developer WP:COI (based on User_talk:68.213.153.149). Brollachan ( talk) 09:19, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep but should be refactored to focus on the software, not on the people behind it. Take out the "it is believed" cruft; let people make their own decisions from facts that can be cited. GreenReaper ( talk) 15:32, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. It's old, and not really used any more, but it definitely held a place of great relevance in the forum software community once upon a time. It was the only free bulletin board that offered a robust feature set comparable to that of paid solutions at the time. 205.215.210.10 ( talk) 17:45, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. JForget 02:55, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Joseph Peicott

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Autobiography of a young associate producer of some TV episodes for whom I can find no coverage whatsoever in reliable sources. (There was another Joseph Peicott, killed near Boston in 1993 in a traffic accident.) He does not appear to meet WP:CREATIVE or any other aspect of WP:BIO.  Glenfarclas  ( talk) 19:50, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 00:56, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Somali Irrigation

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 19:36, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. JForget 00:42, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Can you call on an ipod touch

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Wikipedia is not a how-to guide I42 ( talk) 19:27, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was speedy redirect. — David Eppstein ( talk) 21:33, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Tigran Mansuryan

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Content merged into Tigran Mansurian; list of works was a complete duplicate anyway, so there was not much to merge. Classical geographer ( talk) 19:23, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. JForget 02:54, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

List of characters in AdventureQuest

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This is a list of characters for a video game of marginal notability, itself at AfD. Contested prod, with argument normal accepted type of article; better than individual articles of characters, hardly an "uncontroversial deletion". Pcap ping 19:18, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Makes me think of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fictional characters who can fly.-- Prodigy96 ( talk) 04:51, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was no consensus. Unresolved issue of whether the sources qualify as reliable. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 19:32, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Gamble Fish

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Contested prod. Unreferenced article about a manga with no assertion of notability. Fails WP:BK. Delete.  Blanchardb - Me• MyEars• MyMouth- timed 18:26, 17 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Commment A 15 vols-ongoing series published by Akita Shoten( [12]). No licensor outside Japan. Absent not only from Anime News Network database but also from the reported news, meaning not a single volume of this series made it into the Japanese manga charts. -- KrebMarkt 18:50, 18 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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  • Keep A notable magazine that's been around since 1969, features this, thus vast numbers of potential readers for the series exist. The series wouldn't last that long in a popular magazine without a significant number of fans. Manga related magazines don't often review manga found in their competition's magazines, nor are most manga reviewed anywhere at all, thus the suggested guidelines aren't relevant here, you having to ignore them and think for yourself, using common sense. Dream Focus 21:50, 27 January 2010 (UTC) reply
    • Notability can't be inherited, no volumes among the 15 released managed to make it into the manga charts and there no much hype around it in manga fan community with scanlation lagging behind with less than half of the chapters done. Call to good sense is based on the credits you give to the editor making the call. -- KrebMarkt 07:29, 29 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep For now, a discussion can easily be brought up on the talk page on japanese reference finding and such. - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 04:35, 28 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • I'm pushing for no consensus. This article notability issue is not resolved. Saying it has 15 volumes just won't make me vote keep, it just stopped me for voting delete. No evidence of notability were provided and only the existence of the series was asserted. If nothing change this one will be back to Afd for another that's certainty. If such thing occurs, i wish to avoid keep vote based it was keep in the previous Afd argument. Closing admin should read my position as vote to counterweight the Keep votes and aiming for no consensus result. -- KrebMarkt 07:46, 29 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • I'm not sure we can vote for no consensus, and I'm not sure it'll fly given only the nominator has actually said delete. There's circumstantial evidence of notability, enough so I'm unwilling to say delete, but nothing at hand that demonstrates it to the callous letter of The Law, so I'm also unwilling to say keep outright. I'm going with no vote here. — Quasirandom ( talk) 14:18, 29 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Week delete While 15 published volumes is an indication of notability, there has been no reliable third-party sources presented for this series. Without them, the article can be nothing more than a mere a plot summary. — Farix ( t |  c) 17:32, 30 January 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was keep. JForget 02:53, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Lost in the Meritocracy: The Undereducation of an Overachiever

Lost in the Meritocracy: The Undereducation of an Overachiever (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Almost no content iBen talk/ contribsIf you reply here, please place a talkback notification on my page. 18:56, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Keep Sure it's a stub, but a cursory Google search reveals a lot of information. The book is clearly notable. I have added content and references to the article so please take another look at it. -- MelanieN ( talk) 19:47, 31 January 2010 (UTC)MelanieN reply
Additional comment: I see that this was nominated for deletion, as having "almost no content", only half an hour after the article was created, and while the creator was clearly still working on it (e.g. creating an infobox). Surely we should give people a little time to establish content, before complaining about lack of content!-- MelanieN ( talk) 20:42, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
In response: Please use the {{ under construction}} tag.-- iBen talk/ contribsIf you reply here, please place a talkback notification on my page. 00:20, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Really? It says "In general, this template should not be used for new articles with little content."
Personally, I often start an article small, and add information as I research it. Wikipedia seems to accept this approach, see Wikipedia:stub. "A stub is an article containing only a few sentences of text which is too short to provide encyclopedic coverage of a subject, but not so short as to provide no useful information, and it should be capable of expansion." The fact that an article is a stub, or is very short, is not one of the reasons for deletion.
BTW I am not the author of the article, and I know nothing about this book except what I researched - never heard of it before today. I am just a person who likes to occasionally "rescue" an article from deletion, when I think the subject has merit.-- MelanieN ( talk) 00:48, 1 February 2010 (UTC)MelanieN reply
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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 17:03, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply

A14(M) motorway

A14(M) motorway (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Article is mostly nonsense not backed up by the sources given. It is true that the A14(M) is an unsigned motorway, however it is actually a short section a mile long, commonly considered to be part of the A1(M). It is only referred to on paper.

I attempted to redirect this to the A14 article but the user has just undone the action. The section about the planned upgrade is true, but given that it was only on the cards for 3 years and never really got far in the planning process, certainly doesn't give it notability. Jeni ( talk) 18:45, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Delete Sorry, but where have you backed up your point? Where are your official sources? Personally I have no knowledge of this designation and the road is not built to motorway standards. Where are your references from Hansard? By coincidence I have found official reference in the 1960s to a potential M45 running west from Ipswich - I guess it was intended to link to the M45 in Warwickshire but, with respect, that is another story and does not give credibility to this article. PeterEastern ( talk) 19:49, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • For the record, here is a reference from the highways agency to the A604(M) as well. [15]. We hear what you are saying Rstallard2, but these references are about past plans, there was also a plan for an M12, but that doesn't mean I insist that part of the current A12 is a motorway - a motorway is a legal classificiation and I have no evidence that the A14 has that designation today - do you? If you started your article, "The A14(M) was a proposed name for a section of the current A14" then that would be more sensible. PeterEastern ( talk) 20:36, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Fails notability. I do not recall a precedent of all "secret unsigned motorways" having some inherent notability. Edison ( talk) 21:23, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete A bit of OR from me: I am a not infrequent user of the A14 over many sections, but in particular the London end and the M6 to M11 area. The section in question here is definitely not built to motorway standard, and while there might have been (and probably were - I'm not casting doubts on Rstallard2's research) it never has been one, and would take considerable work to be of motorway standard. I think the relevant info should be in the A14 article (and also that the **** road should have been built as a motorway as well, but that's PoV...). BTW, if the info on Rstallard2's page is correct, I would congratulate him/her on her/his achievements (spelling...) both here and outside. Peridon ( talk) 21:29, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. We seem to be getting off track a bit, above. The question is not if the subject existed (as a road or a proposal, or whatever), but whether the subject is notable under our policies. In this case, I agree with Jeni - a well-constructed reference in the A14 article would be sufficient. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 15:56, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • I have now researched the available reliable evidence and sumarised it on the A14 talk page here. There is clearly evidence that a 1.2 mile section of the A14 has had and does have many amusingly contradictory designations but there is no evidence whatsoever that there is any current 'secret' motorway of any greater length. I stick with my earlier vote of Delete and will roll the content from the talk page into the A14 article in due course. PeterEastern ( talk) 21:37, 5 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nom. -- John ( talk) 07:23, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. JForget 02:52, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Gregory P. Joseph

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The subject of this article has requested its deletion at OTRS ticket#2010013110017466. I tend to support the deletion; he does not appear to meet WP:BIO from what I can see. Stifle ( talk) 17:35, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Comment Just a point of order; why would we start an AfD because the subject of a BLP requests it? If the information in the article were objectionable for reasons of accuracy or POV language etc., then the relevant text could be removed on that basis but off-wiki correspondence (that I cannot read for myself) should not be mentioned as part of the nomination here. To avoid doubt, the AfD should be based purely on the merits of the article, in this case the nominator's opinion that the article fails notability guidelines which I presume is true here (disregarding the "tend to support" qualification). Ash ( talk) 04:06, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
    • Comment. Re "why would we start an AfD because the subject of a BLP requests it?": we start an AfD whenever anyone requests it. I don't see any reason to deny this privilege to the subject of the article. — David Eppstein ( talk) 19:58, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was THIS IS A TITLE. JForget 02:49, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Think Tank Forums

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Seemingly non-notable software. Very marginal coverage in reliable independent sources. Pcap ping 17:19, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was withdrawn by nominator. ... discospinster talk 03:02, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply

List of documentaries

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This page should either be renamed Lists of documentary films or just deleted, it seems to me. Or is this valid as a redirect? The only content are three links that could easily be added to the See also section of Documentary film. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 16:58, 31 January 2010 (UTC) WITHDRAWN per below reply

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The result was delete. JForget 02:48, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

EbilGames

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If the company is tethering on the verge of non-notability (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Artix Entertainment (4th nomination)), then their site that holds their more obscure games surely is even less notable. Pcap ping 16:51, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. Scott Mac (Doc) 21:54, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply

AdventureQuest

AfDs for this article:
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Only reviewed on seemingly obscure sites. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Artix Entertainment (4th nomination). Pcap ping 16:44, 31 January 2010 (UTC) (I think the sources found below are adequate. 01:15, 3 February 2010 (UTC)) reply

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The result was delete. JForget 02:46, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Pune Gliding Center

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Contested PROD. Seems to be a non-notable field, sources mention it tangentially; a few famous people appear to have visited it, but I'm not sure that confers notability in the sense that we require it. Do we have any relevant guidelines here? Anyway, opening to the community for insight and opinions. Glass Cobra 16:16, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. JForget 02:44, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Spank jazz

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Contested Prod. Article is an unreferenced assertion of a genre founded on one track on an album by a defunct band. There is no Wikipedia page for the band or the album. No genre references on AllAboutJazz; only reference on Allmusic is the album track title itself. AllyD ( talk) 15:59, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Note: Notified WikiProject Jazz. AllyD ( talk) 16:13, 31 January 2010 (UTC)# reply

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The result was delete. JForget 02:42, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Khalid Usman

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Two-line biographical article about a chartered accountant and former town councillor. Sporadically mentioned and quoted in local media, but nothing approaching siginficant coverage. Subject fails WP:POLITICIAN. --Rrburke ekrubrR 15:54, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. JForget 02:42, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Plain Talk Volume 1-Everything you ever and never wanted to know about Racism and Stereotypes

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Flunks WP:N and WP:SPAM; no reliable sources; self-promotional. (While self-promotion is not a reason for deletion, the article's other failings are.) THF ( talk) 15:11, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Delete per nom. Stonemason89 ( talk) 16:26, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. Of the four "References" currently in the article, three do not discuss the book at all, and the fourth was written by the author of the book. No clear claim is ever presented for the notability of the book in the article: no awards, no reviews, no critical reception. — C.Fred ( talk) 16:41, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete No reliable sources for the content or importance of this book, and the article appears to be a mix of self-promotion of the book and promotion of the book's author's personal theories. — Gavia immer ( talk) 17:07, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete gsearch for strings "plain talk" "corey washington" gave no RS hits. self published through xlibris, which has no relevant acceptance criteria. a less spammy article may be recreated in the future if it actually does become notable per WP. Mercurywoodrose ( talk) 18:10, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

The fact that Stonemason nominated me for deletion should be wiped out because I changed some of his edits on the All-White Basketball league. I think that the deletion should be held off for 6 months. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Plaintalk2010 ( talk • contribs) 03:26, 1 February 2010 (UTC) What spam are you talking about. At the very least some promotional items have been removed personally. I just think it's shady that the guy that I'm involved in an edit war with is the guy who nominates this page for deletion. Now that's a conflict of interest. The deletion process is too subjective. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Plaintalk2010 ( talk • contribs) 03:30, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply

I did not nominate this page for deletion, User: THF did. Get your facts straight. Stonemason89 ( talk) 03:40, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Even if the closing admin discounted Stonemason's opinion, there are five other editors with good rationales to delete the article. That's enough to show a consensus that the article should be deleted. If you want to build a case for keeping the article, focus on the identified flaws in the article and show where it has received significant coverage in reliable sources.

— C.Fred ( talk) 14:57, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply

if the only problem with this article was that it was overly promotional, i would have nominated for keep and probably worked to fix it (i do a lot of small fixups for book/author articles). if the article does stay, i will comment on the "spamminess" on the article talk page. its not relevant here as its not grounds for deletion. it was a throwaway comment essentially in support of its potential future notability. sorry if i sounded too flippant. Mercurywoodrose ( talk) 04:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was speedy keep. nominator also changed to keep JForget 00:36, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Ancient Arabic units of measurement

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A search for reference, found little to no support for any of the content of this article. Yes there Ancient Arabic units of measurement, but for most of the units mentioned here no references are found. See example reference in article, what is found has no support for the measurements as documented. The farsakh is the only thing I find close and even that does not match references. Removal on non-referenced content per WP:V would result in a article that no longer meets the expectations of the title. Prod was removed so bringing to AfD Jeepday ( talk) 15:05, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Delete Although the topic is notable for its own article, an unsourced article is dubious, and keeping a demonstrably inaccurate article makes an entire encyclopedia dubious. Looking through the history of this one, it was created back in the "It's none of your damn business where I got this from" days of Wikipedia, and had no source at all until the nominator (Jeepday) located one: ( [17]) would be the heart of a good article as to some of the measurements, and if someone wants to attempt a rescue, in which case, move it to userspace until it can be something that doesn't say 2+2=7. The Encyclopedia Britannica used to have an article called "Measures and Weights" that converted units of measure into English and metric equivalents. Rather than a clean up, this one needs to be replaced with something brand new from the rescue factory. Mandsford ( talk) 17:49, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
Could you please substantiate "demonstrably incorrect". So far as I can see the highly reliable reference that I have given below covers everything in the article. Hans Adler 18:27, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. Deletion of an article is generally interpreted as implying that re-creation of the article is strongly discouraged. That would certainly not be appropriate here. As to the sourcing, we need to take into account the systemic bias against cultures using a non-Latin script. If we search for one specific transcription of a unit, then we are only going to find those occurrences that use exactly the same transcription. By simply searching for "arabic units" in Google Books I found the Encyclopaedia of scientific units, weights, and measures, which appeared with Springer and appears to cover everything that is in the article in a single table. Hans Adler 20:10, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
That would be a reliable source (François Cardarelli, ed. Encyclopaedia of Scientific Units, Weights, and Measures: Their SI Equivalences and Origins (Springer 2003) p77-78) at least for units of length, area, and volume. If someone is willing to replace the existing content with something verifiable-- even to the extent of blanking the page and replacing it with the two links to Google books-- then I'd support a keep. Otherwise, we should put a note up saying "This is totally unreliable and should not be taken seriously by someone consulting an encyclopedia". The first requirement of reference information, even greater than that it should be verifiable, is that it be correct. Mandsford ( talk) 23:02, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
So far as I can tell nothing needs to be replaced. The present content is backed up by the new reference. Hans Adler 18:27, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete unless someone rewrites it before this AFD closes: incorrect information does not belong in Wikipedia, and the only ways to get rid of an entirely incorrect article are complete rewrites and deletion. We sometimes delete articles for reasons irrelevant to notability (especially through speedy deletion, but not exclusively), so it's not at all uncommon to encounter a situation when there's no problem with recreating an article that was (altogether properly) deleted. I don't see how keeping a mangled article will help the encyclopedia more than deletion will. Nyttend ( talk) 03:51, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • 'Vote changed, see below Why on earth delete if the problem is a lack of referrences? -- Egil ( talk) 07:00, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Besides that Wikipedia:Verifiability allows for the removal of questionable unreferenced content. Lack of references is one of the symptoms, the problem is that the content of the article cannot be validated; it is extremely likely that none of it is accurate, and the entire article content is fabricated. This article was reviewed by Wikipedia:Unreferenced articles prior to being posted for AfD and no references supporting the article content could be found. The question in this AfD is should the article be stripped to a sinlgle line about farsakh, or should it be completely deleted. JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 11:57, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Point taken. As a flashback, I remember this article was created by splitting up a far too big article on historical weights and measures, and I'm sure some of the original content was quite questionable. If you have researched this and not being able to verify, then this article has no value. I will thus change my vote to Delete. Egil ( talk) 09:08, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Did any of you actually compare the reference with the current content of the article? What does the article say that doesn't follow immediately from the new reference? Hans Adler 18:27, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Comment. {{trout}} I don't understand why people here are voting for deletion of an article based on speculations that the content may be incorrect, after someone has found a Springer book that backs up the content. Hans Adler 01:25, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Nom voting Keep, thanks to the work of User:Hans Adler who found and added references supporting the article content. When the reference was first posted here it did not open as readable for me, but the reference on the article clearly goes to a book supporitin the content as written (still room to improve as always). My Orginal research was based on the words for the units, which came up mostly empty Hans focused on the subject a search term and found a great reference. JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 12:01, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
    • Thanks, it seems you originally missed my explanation concerning different transcriptions. I think it's important to keep this issue in mind in order to avoid systemic bias against cultures that use a non-latin script. As it happens, my work didn't consist in more than entering "Arabic units of measurement" in Google books and looking at the first hit. The trout is on the barbecue. Who wants some? Hans Adler 12:10, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Speedy close in that nominator has withdrawn nomination. Changing vote to Keep and praising Hans Adler as well. Mandsford ( talk) 21:48, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. JForget 02:40, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

David Soutter

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Non-notable official of political parties who has not stood for elected office himself. No reliable sources found and indeed there appear only to be passing mentions in a tiny number of newspaper articles. Has been tagged for notability for 18 months or so. Sam Blacketer ( talk) 14:51, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. JForget 02:40, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Internet car buying in the UK

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Contested PROD (by blanking). PROD concern "No indication of how this might meet notability guidelines. Lacks citations to significant coverage in reliable sources" blue 520 14:51, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

*Delete and do not wish to see Internet car buying in India, Interent car buying in Chile or Internet car buying in the Sahara Desert any time soon. From an encyclopedia's position, we just don't need articles of this nature.--TrustMe THROW! 20:18, 31 January 2010 (UTC)) User has been blocked, refer to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Trusted_Throw for details. Ottawa4ever ( talk) 08:01, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Seconded. Peridon ( talk) 21:30, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
I still second what he said. Peridon ( talk) 17:53, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
::Thirded.-- Prodigy96 ( talk) 00:36, 1 February 2010 (UTC)) User has been blocked, refer to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Trusted_Throw for details. Ottawa4ever ( talk) 08:01, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was Keep ( WP:NACD) CTJF83 chat 19:45, 6 February 2010 (UTC) reply

William Croft (linguist)

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Non-notable BLP of a linguist. The only independent source isn't even about HIM, it's about Greenberg, and only mentions Croft as it relates to Greenberg. That doesn't satisfy the "non-trivial" aspect of our notability policy. The other source is simply a university profile. Unit Anode 14:32, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Then you are granting that the person is notable? - Wikidemon ( talk) 18:47, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
No. Until reliable, secondary sources are found to source the claims, I don't grant that he's notable. Unit Anode 13:54, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. JForget 02:39, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Leroy Ah Ben

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All that I can find in Google is unreliable sites, a profile, and a trivial mention in The Walkley Magazine. All that I can find in Google News is a few news articles by him. I found zero sources in Google Books. Fails WP:BIO. Joe Chill ( talk) 13:33, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Wow. A deletionist. I love you guys. All I can offer is that he's on TV in Australia every night on an evening news program on SBS which broadcasts nationally, which of course doesn't leave a textual trace on the web because he's a broadcast TV reporter. Why not enjoy yourself and go ahead and delete it. Timbomb ( talk) 23:09, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. JForget 02:38, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Jim Duriga

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All that I can find in Google is 123people.com, monkees101.com which only has one sentence, sites to buy his books, profiles, unreliable sites, and Open Library. All that I can find in Google News is three trivial mentions in a local newspaper. All that I can find in Google Books is books by him. Fails WP:CREATIVE. Joe Chill ( talk) 13:02, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Consensus seems to be that there because the only sources that exist that cover this man are of his crimes, the article fails WP:BLP1E. NW ( Talk) 12:10, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Edwin Curry

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I know the definition of "BLP1E" is disputed, but I believe this article in it's current form does fall under the term. The article covers nothing on this man other than one part of his life, how he got jailed for being a pedophile. — Coffee // have a cup // ark // 10:41, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

The sentence was controversial and other examples in the category similarly focus on this part of someone's life. -- can dle • wicke 10:50, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Per WP:ONEEVENT. It seems to me the only notability (if that should even be the right word here to use) is for this one event. Im perplexed as to how even a merge is appropriate and where this could go as a redirect right now. Therefore I think deletion (In the pages current form) is appropriate as outlined above. Ottawa4ever ( talk) 11:19, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • I am curious (as an aside and not to take away from this) but is the article at Viggo Kristiansen from the same category notable? It seems he has done less and might be one example of a major BLP issue through similar focus on his crimes (with a lot less sources). -- can dle • wicke 12:53, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Keep-The article is sourced and is indeed notable in that the guy was found guilty of 189 counts of indecent assault and sentenced to only 4 years. For WP:ONEEVENT, are you referring to the sentencing, or to the period during which he was assaulting these children?...there appears to be some lexical ambiguity in your statement. The article does need a bit work, but as it stands, it need not be nominated for deletion. Smallman12q ( talk) 13:14, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Also, quoting BLP1E, it says "If the event is significant and the individual's role within it is substantial, a separate biography may be appropriate. Individuals notable for well-documented events, such as John Hinckley, Jr., fit into this category." It seems (to me at this point) that this person's role is indeed substantial and since the names of those he abused are unknown he is very much the centre of this case. I had no idea who the Hinckley, Jr. guy was before I clicked but if the best example of this type of biography is someone who nearly killed someone but failed, well... I don't see how this serial abuser over three decades is any worse less suited for an article? -- can dle • wicke 13:55, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
(edit conflict) To me I see this as one event that the trial and the period are one in the same, and as such I would belive the article follows to cover the person only in the context of this single event (But i agree this can have ambuigity to it). That is just my opinion of this paticular article. However I do concede under WP:PERP that the person narrowly does satisfy point 3 (But not 1 and 2 in my opinion at least). However thats if it has persistant coverage to be historical which you could probably argue this will. Maybe retitling the article and re writing portions to reflect the trial and not the individual would be more appropriate rather than deletion and in time if there is continual coverage the article could reflect the individual? Ottawa4ever ( talk) 14:04, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
"Notable because he was sentenced to 189 counts of assault" sounds like an arbitrary number to me. rʨanaɢ  talk/ contribs 03:21, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Strong keep - clearly, obviously notable individual (unfortunately), which passes WP:GNG (several sources), WP:BLP1E (not a single event; sources are all from his recent conviction, but the crimes are not recent and are very many; sources referring to him and his personality also are cited) and WP:PERP (notable crimes). The crimes were notable enough for the sentence to have been further discussed. -- Cyclopia talk 15:55, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep - There are several reliable sources in the article itself, and the man appears to be a serial child sex offender. The media coverage may be a one off (i.e. at the trial) but the actual offense and claim to notability isn't a BLP1E situation. I guess that's what you meant in your nomination regarding the disputed definition of BLP1E. Regards, --— Cyclonenim |  Chat  17:48, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per WP:BLP1E and WP:PERPETRATOR. Horrible crimes over many years, and they took place many years ago. Yet the few references for the crime or the criminal are only from a 5 day period. The crimes inspired no societal changes, no new laws, no books or films. Apparently the news media which gave it little coverage did not see it as significant as some Wikipedians do. The crimes may have taken place over a long period, but none was apparently considered notable enough for any coverage until the trial and conviction. Neither the perpetrator nor the victims apparently had any notability outside the crimes. Edison ( talk) 21:40, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Edison said it best. No need to keep this page.-- Prodigy96 ( talk) 00:21, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep The recent findings by Candlewicke change everything. They also make a very good argument. Since the trial would have been around the time this became public how could sources exist from when it was unknown?-- Prodigy96 ( talk) 00:32, 1 February 2010 (UTC)) User has been blocked, refer to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Trusted_Throw for details. reply
It could be argued that "unknown crimes until the trial" equals "one incident." The additions by Candlewicke are preliminary parts of the same trial plus apparently someone beating up the perpetrator after his misdeeds came to be known. The early hearings of a trial are part of the same trial, hence the same event. Getting beaten up is generally not the stuff of which encyclopedias are made. Edison ( talk) 01:24, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Just as a side note I dont think those articles have a problem with BLPE or PERP (Just my thought here though), and are quite different from this article and its concerns that have been raised as has been discussed above. Discussion should also be kept to this article alone and wether it should or shouldnt be deleted. Ottawa4ever ( talk) 18:28, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Yes, there are differeces...--TrustMe THROW! 22:49, 1 February 2010 (UTC) User has been blocked, refer to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Trusted_Throw for details. reply
  • Delete I think WP:BLP1E still applies. The event, in this case, can be said to be Curry's trial, which appears to be of only immediate interest (I can't imagine anyone taking an interest in this 15 years from now). In response to Wnt above, this guy does not at all compare to Eric Harris/Dylan Klebold and John Wayne Gacy. Harris and Klebold were involved in an event that's unquestionably significant on its own (BLP1E says bios are appropriate for "Individuals notable for well-documented events"). Gacy has had whole books written about him, and attracted far more attention than this guy. rʨanaɢ  talk/ contribs 03:18, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply
*Keep the events are notable and have been subject to mass media coverage.-- LittleGordon 20:08, 2 February 2010 (UTC)) User has been blocked, refer to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Trusted_Throw for details. reply
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The result was keep. JForget 02:37, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Chako Abeno

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Delete. This is a non-notable and unsourced WP:BLP article. I searched Google News Archive and found 1 relevant match, which was a passing one-liner mention from activeanime.com. That's it. JBsupreme ( talk) 08:16, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • As creator or co-creator of a more than one notable manga, she would on the face of it pass WP:CREATIVE. Since this information was already present when this AfD was proposed, wouldn't attempting to find sources per WP:BEFORE been the better route? But in any case, beyond that additional sourcing has been added, making this a keep. — Quasirandom ( talk) 16:09, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep per Eastman, Quasirandom, and http://www.google.com/cse?cx=009114923999563836576%3A1eorkzz2gp4&q=%22Chako+Abeno%22 -- Gwern (contribs) 17:10 31 January 2010 (GMT)
    • Gwern, what is this custom search that you are citing? It says "Wikipedia RSs for manga and anime" but I am seeing tons of blogs? I am intrigued. JBsupreme ( talk) 17:46, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
      • Welcome to 21st century, where evil vetted RS critics not only review manga on their Reliable Source manga/anime/comics websites but also from their very own personal blog. Saying that those critics are only experts when they write reviews in their RS websites and cease to be experts when they write reviews in their blog would be utter bullshit. From Wikipedia editors point of view this is hellish to use because the dogmatic blog = not RS restriction. -- KrebMarkt 18:37, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
      • What Kreb said. With a few exceptions, all the blogs being pulled up are either on the Wikiproject's list of online RSs, were cited in the recent discussions about a large network of allied reviewers who publish in said RSs, or are just showing up in the results because they haven't been filtered out. (The CSE has a large whitelist, and blacklist, but everything else is on a 'greylist' - it shows up if it scores high enough anyway.) If any of them are particularly bad and should never show up for any query, feel free to point them out to me. I cleaned up several of the Chako Abeno pages, but I didn't clean past page ~5 of results. -- Gwern (contribs) 18:42 1 February 2010 (GMT)
  • Keep Per above, and references from all the notable manga she has worked on. - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 17:42, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. Reliable sources more than sufficient to pass the relevant notability bar, as demonstrated by Eastmain and Quasirandom. The existence of systemic bias is not an argument for deletion. Rebecca ( talk) 15:57, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep The body of work makes them notable. Dream Focus 20:16, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep: There are reliable sources. - 23:23, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
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The result was delete. JForget 02:35, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Konstantin Popov

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There does not appear to be enough substance here to support a biographical article. He made the news only within the last few days because of his killing. However, there has been been no biographical coverage of this individual prior to this single event, and he was even described as a " little-known 47-year-old journalist who specialized in writing about economics" in one of the recent news articles about his death. Wikipedia:Notability says "it takes more than just a short burst of news reports about a single event or topic to constitute sufficient evidence of notability." Dominic· t 08:02, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. JForget 02:34, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Cornish American

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Essentially this is a WP:FRINGE/ WP:FORK for Cornish nationalism (created by somebody of that political persuasion). No evidence that such an article is WP:Notable and its contents consists of WP:SYNTH and WP:OR. Nor is there any evidence that people from one county in England have especially high numbers of people in America, as to be worthy of an article. No other Encyclopedia in the world includes such an article. Delete as FORK political activism on the part of Joowww. - Yorkshirian ( talk) 07:53, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Keep. The Cornish identity is stronger than that of, say, East Sussex. Cornwall was once a Celtic nation with its own language, and "Cornish" can be an ethnic or linguistic group rather than just a county of origin. Emigrants from Cornwall to the United States or Australia would often have been miners in Cornwall seeking work as miners, and likely in some cases to settle in mining communities with other Cornish miners. The fact that Cornish nationalism exists, while Yorkshire nationalism does not, suggests that some Americans of Cornish descent may identify as Cornish-American rather than as English-American or British-American. — Eastmain ( talk • contribs) 08:51, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
There are no native speakers of Cornish in Cornwall, let alone in the United States; the last native speaker died in the 1700s, before the United States existed. Also Cornwall was never a country but rather Dumnonnia was (as was Northumbria, Gwynedd, Clwyd and Gwent). But this is all besides the point "Cornish American" is itself WP:OR and WP:SYNTH as a concept, there is no presentation of evidence that "Cornish American" is a notable concept to be included in an Encyclopedia. There is no evidence that any of the examples listed in the article regarded themselves as "Cornish Americans". The concept is as OR as Gwynedd American or Northumbrian American. - Yorkshirian ( talk) 09:09, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
I disagree with the suggestion that "Cornish American" is WP:OR. There is objective evidence for the use of the term, such as the Cornish American Heritage Society at http://www.cousinjack.org/ , and other Cornish groups in the United States at http://www.pacornish.org/ http://milwaukeecornish.homestead.com/ http://www.califcornishcousins.org/ The Library of Congress catalog http://catalog.loc.gov has a listing for Cornish American, a serial in Grand Rapids, Mich. first published in 1982. As for linguistic differences between Cornish people and those in other parts of England, see West Country dialects. For more on Cornwall as an independent country, see Kingdom of Cornwall and Dumnonia. - Eastmain ( talk • contribs) 10:32, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
There's no doubt that some people in the US highlight their Cornish roots, and that some of them have set up websites about it, but it's much less clear whether the phrase "Cornish American" is commonly used, and whether the concept of a "Cornish American" is at all notable. And, for info, you can buy t-shirts that say "Yorkshire American". -- Nickhh ( talk) 01:35, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
You can also buy t-shirts that say "I shot JR". And your point is? -- Joowwww ( talk) 13:32, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Er, humour? Although there was a small serious point underneath it, ie that the verifiable existence of a phrase or term does not of itself mean it needs a Wikipedia page. -- Nickhh ( talk) 13:43, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
This is not about counties or ancient kingdoms, it is about the modern-day ethnicity. -- Joowwww ( talk) 21:21, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
Presumably the modern concept of Cornish ethnicity though is derived very much from the place, and its history, otherwise it's wholly random and invented? And that's the point that people are disputing - what makes Cornwall as an area of England and the UK, and its people, any different from other historical and contemporary areas in the country, all of which had, and to varying degrees still have, a distinctive regional identity? I'm not saying that's not the case, but it needs to be demonstrated substantively, and with reference to proper sources. In this case, we need reliable and serious evidence of the concept of "Cornish Americans". -- Nickhh ( talk) 01:35, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
The Cornish were considered to be a separate people from the English for centuries, until around the 17th century. There are people in Cornwall who still do. Yorkshirians weren't and don't. That's the difference. -- Joowwww ( talk) 13:31, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
OK, as I said then. -- Nickhh ( talk) 13:43, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Comment: I think the evidence provided (although not other WP pages per se - the Kingdom of Cornwall page in particular looks pretty woefully sourced for a lot of its assertions) would suggest that there is more leeway for the concept of "Cornish American" than there is for "Mercian American", or "Berkshire American", but at the same time it is not an officially accepted ethnic definition in the US like say "Irish American" is - Americans with family origins in Cornwall would be "English Americans" in US census categories, whether they liked it or not. Equally some of the sites pointed to above are of course self-published, and while they provide evidence of the existence of Cornish culture and self-identifying Cornish people in the US - and possibly the occasional use of the actual term "Cornish American" - they do not provide evidence of its notability. Are there any serious, reliable sources that use the term "Cornish American" and apply it to individuals? Beyond that, even if the page is kept, as noted on the article talk page, the page has problems. For example there's a real issue in respect of some of the people who have been listed as Cornish Americans, when there's zero evidence that they or anyone else describe themselves as such.-- Nickhh ( talk) 19:15, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. JForget 02:32, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Botev Vratsa Forever

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Fan club with 60 members and no evidence of notability. — RHaworth ( talk · contribs) 06:35, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. JForget 02:31, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Viscendo

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Made-up word, obvious vehicle for WP:ARTSPAM of the company "Viscendo LLC," founded by Jody Basye. Borders (closely) on db-g11 as blatant advertising. User:Jodybasye contested my PROD.  Glenfarclas  ( talk) 06:13, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Delete. I agree with nominator, it is obvious spam for the company. Also probable conflict of interest given article creator's name is same as company domain registrant. Original speedy deletion tagging was correct in my opinion. - 84user ( talk) 11:35, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. JForget 02:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

DragonFable

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I deprodded this video game after I found one relatively short review on about.com I felt it deserves a discussion. (Besides, I see it has been brought to AfD before, so a prod was procedurally invalid.) Pcap ping 06:06, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Comment: http://www.netzwelt.de/download/7030-dragonfable.html its german and a description + small review of the game, can it be used as reference? GBK2010 ( talk) 02:42, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
I am not familiar with this particular online magazine so I can't judge how reliable it is. But since it offers the game as a download I think it might have interest in promoting the game; that is, I doubt if it is an independent source, which we need to establish notability. Reyk YO! 02:55, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
I am familar with netzwelt. It's a fairly high profile German site (top 100 or so, see their "press" page, Alexa ranking, etc.) The reviews on their download pages are written by their staff, not copies of manufacturer's description; they have a dozen writers, see their impressum. I'm not very fond of reviews on download pages because they are otften quick, "filler" takes, although the netzwelt ones are better compared to others of this kind ( Softonic, CNET download pages, etc.) But, there's far more coverage in the mmohut.com review I linked above. The netzwelt coverage is rather uninformative in comparison. Also, for a video game, I expect more depth of coverage than, say, for a Zip archiver or chat client, and the netzwelt page has just about the same for all of these; it's not a game focused site. Perhaps you can tell me why the mmohut.com review is unreliable in exchange. :-) Pcap ping 03:34, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Don't speedy delete — I've checked the deleted revisions, and this is radically different. While this is a bit of a game guide, it's far more encyclopedic than the deleted versions, which are almost exclusively game guides. Nyttend ( talk) 03:59, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete or Redirect to Artix Entertainment, if it is kept. About.com - Andre Haas, again, etc? :> This is fairly feeble coverage, but enough for verifiability. MMOHut - I'm not happy about the reliability of this as a source, as I've detailed at WP:VG/RS. Netzwelt - Ran this through Babel. Reads like an advert, they have nothing critical to say, and the site is ran in association with AOL Advertising. Marasmusine ( talk) 13:15, 6 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. JForget 02:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Pink Crust (Avril Lavigne album)

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Article is of unverifiable nature, based on unreliable conjecture citing no sources, though a Google search results in unreliable sources using the possible-hoax name "Pink Crust". Possible disparagement toward artist. Correct, updated, and verified information on the fourth studio album can be found on the Avril Lavigne article. Kerαunoςcopia◁ galaxies 06:02, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Delete. Looks like a hoax, at least according to The Boston Phoenix: "several news sources, among them Billboard, have reported that [Avril's] upcoming album will be titled Pink Crust. If you're thinking that that's just a little too gross to be true. . .you're correct. As near as I can figure, that title was posted as a joke on an Avril Lavigne fan site, and credulous publications reported it as fact." If it's not a hoax, it still violates WP:CRYSTAL, as no reliable sources confirm a track listing or release date.  Gongshow  Talk 06:56, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 17:03, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply

MechQuest

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Seemingly non-notable video game. Arguably its notability should be discussed here, rather than edit warred over the redirect to the company, which itself may be deleted soon. Pcap ping 05:48, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. JForget 02:19, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

609th Air Communications Squadron

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This squadron, performing a ground combat service support function, is not notable. Any relevant material can either be placed at Shaw Air Force Base or 20th Fighter Wing. This nomination is in line with previously determined community consensus over separate non-combat ground forces' companies (a unit at the same level). See eg Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/101st Chemical Company (United States) and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/722nd Ordnance Company (United States). Buckshot06 (talk) 05:12, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. JForget 02:19, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

1625 Sheridan Road (Wilmette)

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Unremarkable building, no evidence of notability for design or history. Acroterion (talk) 03:38, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Also 1616 Sheridan Road (Wilmette) and 1500 Sheridan Road (Wilmette). Same issues. Acroterion (talk) 20:07, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
Welcome to Wikipedia, SecretName101. This is your first article, and I'm presuming that you've written about something that you're familiar with. However, I hope that you will agree that it wouldn't be practical if we had an article about every five story building in the world. We have to set limits on articles, based upon whether something is notable enough that it gets attention outside the local area. As the saying goes, "Everything gets published on Wikipedia, but not everything gets to stay on Wikipedia." Mandsford ( talk) 17:55, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Does the book you're referencing give any indication of something unique about this building (and 1500?). If so, you should include that in the article. What you want to do is to explain why this building is worthy of inclusion in an encyclopedia (and personal liking isn't enough: it must be historic or have a historic event associated with it, or be notable on the basis of its design). Who was the architect? Acroterion (talk) 03:47, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. JForget 02:18, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Kae's File Manager

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Zaroo independent sources for this, hic. Pcap ping 03:31, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. JForget 02:16, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Atmospheric rock

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Improperly "citing" a single album as evidence for a genre's existence does not a legitimate genre make. C1k3 ( talk) 02:59, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Neutral. I filled in the stub from a redlink, if i remember right. The example is just an example, of course, but Google reveals a fair amount of usage of the term as a genre by bands, review sites, online stores, etc. This article, Post Rock 101, seems to recognize it as a subgenre alongside art rock and math rock. I'm not sure exactly how much sourcing would meet the threshold of notability, but if enough can't be found, all the articles linking to this one need to be adjusted too, at least. — Piet Delport ( talk) 2010-01-31 05:35
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The result was merge and redirect. Jayjg (talk) 00:42, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Red and Blue (EP)

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This is an EP by Stefani Germanotta, recorded a couple years before she found fame (pardon the pun) as Lady Gaga. The EP was apparently not released—the article claims a "handful of copies were sold at New York area shows"—and the only mentions I'm seeing for this are in fansites/forums, torrent links, etc. I can not find significant coverage in independent reliable sources; does not appear to meet WP:GNG or WP:NALBUMS.  Gongshow  Talk 02:35, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

note: I merged info already feeling that it is relevant no matter how this discussion goes. If no kept, I believe the redirect is appropriate. J04n( talk page) 21:11, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was keep. JForget 02:16, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Smuxi

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This article has been tagged as needing sources for a long time and none have been presented even after extensive editing. Miami33139 ( talk) 02:34, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Software-related deletion discussions. -- Pcap ping 04:27, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • [25] and [26] have been in the article since the day after you requested sources ("since last November" is a long time?), and are independent, reliable, and substantive. What are your objections to them? — Korath ( Talk) 04:41, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
    • We have to be grateful he didn't prod it, as he did with klibc. Pcap ping 17:44, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
    • The edit summary that replaced the notability tag said "(Don't agree tuxradar and toms hardware convey notability. Both of those are giant indiscriminate lists containing mass amounts of products. It doesn't equate significant coverage)" Miami33139 ( talk) 00:20, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
      • I saw Crossmr's edit summary, yes. I was hoping you had objections of your own, because his doesn't hold water. The Tuxradar source reviews only one IRC client, and the only other product reviewed that's even close is Gwibber, a microblogging client. Tom's Hardware reviews seven IRC clients, of 30 products total. Literally hundreds of IRC clients have been released; reviewing one, or seven, can't reasonably be considered indiscriminate. As for the complaint that they review "mass amounts of products", if anything, it adds to the sources' reliability. Keep. — Korath ( Talk) 07:58, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, even if somewhat weakly. Covered in Tom's Hardware, at more length in TuxRadar, which is an online publication owned by Linux Format, and also in the print issue of that magazine [27]. All of these sources were present in the article at the time of nomination. Granted, being reviewed in an article on more obscure apps (TuxRadar) is surely not an indication of popularity or importance. I find it ironic, but not surprising however, that the hardcore deletionists when presented with arguments that something is important, immediately argue that notability is all that matters, and when presented with significant coverage in WP:RS, they argue that the topic is simply not notable (as in popular or important) because it is discussed at some length among other not well-known topics. Besides, if the round-up in Tom's Hardware was as indiscriminate as some say, we'd be able to reference any IRC software on this site from it, including the whole Comparison of IRC clients. Clearly that's not the case given the number of IRC clients that got deleted. Pcap ping 03:10, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Per above, coverage in Tom's Hardware and elsewhere sufficient to prove notability. Dream Focus 13:33, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. JForget 02:15, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Enhanced Programmable ircII Client

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Delete. Well, at least I've heard of this one, it has that going for it. I searched Google News Archives and Google Books, with no success at finding substantial coverage from reliable third party publications. I tried queries "Enhanced Programmable ircII Client" and "EPIC +IRC". JBsupreme ( talk) 02:09, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was Keep Passes WP:Prof ( WP:NACD) CTJF83 chat 20:00, 6 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Linda Harasim

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Typical academic CV - written articles, edited and contributed to multi-author books. Doesn'tseem particularly notable. Scott Mac (Doc) 01:12, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

I'm afraid I don't understand a word of what you've said? What's a GS cite? Yes I researched this. Please indicate why she's notable?-- Scott Mac (Doc) 09:05, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
It is not part of an editor's duties to explain Wikipedia's WP:Prof policy to people who can read it for themselves. Advice often given to newcomers to a topic is to lurk around for a while to learn the conventions that prevail before jumping in as an editor. Xxanthippe ( talk) 00:25, 1 February 2010 (UTC). reply
Notability guidelines are not policies there are guidelines. They tell people "what usually tends to happen on AfD", they in no sense disctate what ought to happen. There is no need for anyone here to pay the blindest bit of attention to them. I don't. I use my own judgement.-- Scott Mac (Doc) 09:49, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
She means the citation counts reported by a Google scholar search. These numbers are a (not very good, but easily measured) way of quantifying the impact a scholar's work has had on other scholars, and in this case they are well above what has usually been considered here to be at the passing level for WP:PROF #1. For instance, over 1200 other published academic works have cited her book Learning networks: A field guide to teaching and learning online in some way or another. No doubt many of these citations are trivial passing mentions but very likely not all of them are. — David Eppstein ( talk) 22:18, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
The article doesn not indicate notability. I'm not sure you've indicated anything remarkable here. Most accademics in this field get called as witnesses, I imagine. None of these article give her more than a passing mention, in the same way they'd mention a policy inspector who investigated a case.-- Scott Mac (Doc) 09:08, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
Is this some strange new meaning of the word "none" with which I'm unfamiliar? My comment above called out two specific articles for which the coverage of her is clearly more than a passing mention. As for "the article does not indicate notability": we are not supposed to say things like "She fulfils the Wikipedia standards for academic notability by virtue of her high citation count and h-index." within the text of an article; see WP:SELFREF. There is a paragraph discussing her research accomplishments; you are expected to deduce for yourself that these are the things she is considered notable for. — David Eppstein ( talk) 22:15, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
Two of those works she edited, the other she co-authored - these are very typical things for an accademic to do. Even most junior lecturers do this type of thing. There is nothing remarkable here.-- Scott Mac (Doc) 14:09, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
You could probably make a good argument for deleting 95% of the least notable BLPs. *** Crotalus *** 14:40, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. Widely published academic; David Eppstein's sources clearly demonstrate notability. Rebecca ( talk) 15:45, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. I see no evidence that this person is more notable than the average tenured college professor. Consequently, I see no reason to keep around an underutilized, underwatched BLP that is a vandalism and liability magnet. *** Crotalus *** 17:35, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
    • This is like arguing against articles on movie actors because the typical average movie actor acts in movies, or arguing against national presidents because the typical average president runs a country. Yes, typical college professors write books and other forms of research publication. However, it is completely false that most college professors have publication records demonstrating as high a level of impact (notability, in the form of other academics taking note of her work). That's why we have WP:PROF: to set standards that distinguish the notable professors from the average ones. By that standard, she passes. — David Eppstein ( talk) 22:12, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
      • Notability guidelines do not "set standards". They are supposed to try to reflect the standards that the community tends to go with at AFD. They are descriptive and no prescriptive. The fact that an article passes then (if this indeed dones) just says articles like this tend to pass - it is not really an arguement for keeping this. I personally prefer to make up my own mind and not read notability statements, others may do as they think best.-- Scott Mac (Doc) 22:17, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
so you think that any argument based on notability guidelines is invalid at an afd? Somehow, I was under the impression that arguments were supposed to be based on guidelines or policy. DGG ( talk ) 21:38, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was redirect to Jeff Chapman (Georgia politician). Cirt ( talk) 20:07, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Chapman Waste Disposal

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A waste disposal company. Having a notable founder does not make a company notable. The only external links were spam for the founder, not the company. Sgroupace ( talk) 18:21, 23 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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  • Delete I don't even think the founder, Jeff Chapman qualifies as notable, nor do most of the persons for whom articles have been created as part of someone's project in Georgia gubernatorial election, 2010 to write a separate page for every person who has declared an interest in that office. Now that's something in need of waste disposal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mandsford ( talk • contribs) 01:07, 31 January 2010
Eastmain is correct, per WP:POLITICIAN, on Mr. Chapman. I tend to agree that most waste disposal companies are not notable in an of themselves (can anyone here recall the name written on the side of the truck that hauls away their garbage each week?) and that the inherent notability of an owner doesn't get passed on to in King Midas fashion to everything the owner touches. Mandsford ( talk) 15:57, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • I disagree. This is a very unlikely search term, since the total absense of Google News/Books/Scholar hits, and that Mr Chapman's article itself had less than 100 page views back in Dec. Nearly all politicians have either been businesspeople or attorneys or both prior to running for office, and ownership of a company so minor that it doesn't even get mentioned in local papers should not be given even a redirect. Abductive ( reasoning) 01:42, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Unlikely yes, of course, but "plausible" is quite a different matter. Redirects are cheap, as they say, and we generally retain them if there's a possibility it could be useful. There are any number of reasons someone might type "Chapman Waste Disposal" into the search box, even if it only happens once in a blue moon (since Chapman is apparently running for Governor there might be more interest in him and his history). A redirect does no harm, and I suppose there's a chance we could stick some small tidbit from the article and merge it into Chapman's bio. WP:R#KEEP suggests maintaining a redirect is worthwhile while WP:R#DELETE doesn't have a reason for deletion that would apply here. It's pretty trivial whether we delete or turn this into a redirect, but I think the latter makes more sense. -- Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 02:36, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was keep. nomination withdrawl - oops JForget 00:57, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Gregory Magarshak

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The subject does not meet the notability criteria for a musician ( WP:MUSN. The article was written by the subject, and none of the references/external links meet the requirements for a reliable source WP:RS. The subject is also not notable as a software developer or entrepreneur WP:N.

I am not a New Yorker or a music aficionado, So I do not know how unusual it is for a child to appear at Carnegie Hall to perform his own work with a professional orchestra. It does not match the WP:MUSN criteria, but if we can find reliable sources that assert that this is unusual and that cite this particular performance, then we can establish notability. If someone can chime in and say "no, this happens a lot," then it's not notable.While looking for sources, also check "Gregori" in addition to "Gregory."

Arch dude ( talk) 16:22, 23 January 2010 (UTC) reply

It hardly ever happens that a child appears at Carnegie hall and performs his work with a professional orchestra. Magarshak was the youngest person to do this as far as I know, the youngest pianist to perform on that level. You can ascertain the notability at http://magarshak.com/piano where several TV programs and magazines are referenced. For example, in the article from "Daily News Magazine", "the youngest person ever to enter Juilliard on a scholarship". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.143.76.29 ( talk) 01:59, 26 January 2010 (UTC) reply

This may very well be true. but we cannot depend on magarshak.com. we need to use reliable sources: see WP:RS for an explanation. Please note: it is perfectly acceptavle to cite the Daily News, even if we cannot access the article online. It is NOT acceptable to cite your web site, for two separate reasons: first, it is not a "reliable source," by our very narrow technical definition. Second, it is a web site that is improperly providing unauthorized copies of copyrighted work. Wikipedia has a prohibition against citing such sites. So, to prove notability, you need to do the following:
  • Cite the Daily News article directly, not your web site. It is not necessary for the cited material to be online, but it does make it easier if you can find it online. (I can help you format your citation: Please post a note on my talk page if you need help)
  • Cite at least one additional "reliable source."
  • Make sure that at least two reliable sources (can include the above) comment on this specific performance. Note that a simple performance announcement is insufficient: we need a full article that spends at least a few paragraphs on you specifically.
  • Make sure that at least two reliable sources (can include the above) indicate that this is unusual.
- Arch dude ( talk) 03:32, 26 January 2010 (UTC) reply
Alright, so let's cite the Daily News and New York Newsday directly. Or, you can use the actual Carnegie Hall stagebill, which talks directly about how unusual the event is. The Russian article talks about it in no uncertain terms ("unprecedented", etc.) but it's in Russian so I don't know if that's acceptable. I would definitely appreciate your help in formatting it, if you could spare a bit of time. Also ... those stills on the site are from programs like "A Musical Encounter" ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0307785/) where there was an entire episode devoted to this. I just don't know where to find it online but if you looked through the series you'd see it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.114.125.45 ( talk) 05:56, 27 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Cite and Keep: I, the original deletion nominator, am changing my implicit !vote from "delete" to "keep", assuming that the outcome of the referencing effort is positive. See my talk page for details. If there is a process for withdrawing an AfD nomination, then we should do that. I would still appreciate another opinion: I almost never participate in AfD and I may not be doing this right. Basically we still have a COI newbie, but I intend to mitigate this by monitoring the article. - Arch dude ( talk) 23:50, 30 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 00:58, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Dalton Boutte

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Formerly unreferenced BLP for which references are thin on the ground.

Does not seem to be generally notable; news mentions seem to be mainly passing references rather than in-depth coverage (VP sells stock! Hold the front page!) and most of the information in here is completely uncited.    pablo hablo. 10:59, 23 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. JForget 02:14, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Ty Russell

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:PORNBIO. Epbr123 ( talk) 00:53, 31 January 2010 (UTC) *Delete The article says Russell is circumcised and reportedly has a 7-inch penis.. Need I say more about the encylcopedic value (or lack thereof) of the article?-- Prodigy96 ( talk) 07:07, 31 January 2010 (UTC) User has been blocked, refer to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Trusted_Throw for details. Ottawa4ever ( talk) 08:04, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply

*Keep because he won the mentioned 1995 award, which does help to establish some notability for inclusion.--TrustMe THROW! 21:05, 31 January 2010 (UTC) User has been blocked, refer to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Trusted_Throw for details. Ottawa4ever ( talk) 08:04, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 20:10, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Paul Carrigan

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:PORNBIO. Epbr123 ( talk) 00:53, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

  • Delete per nom.--TrustMe THROW! 03:41, 31 January 2010 (UTC) Strike blocked sock contribution. Ash ( talk) 20:07, 5 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep This is a terrible nomination, obviously no effort has been made to check notability before raising for deletion in a drive against gay porn stars. He was notable enough to act as himself in the spoof film Full Frontal (2001). He directed over 30 porn films. He starred in over 250 published films (perhaps the most well known are Underground (1997 with Jeff Stryker) and Three Brothers (1998)). As a director he created a whole genre of gay porn wrestling films. Obviously the article needs more references (few sources from the 1990s are on-line) but it is also obvious that due to his impact on the adult film market, he meets WP:ARTIST, WP:GNG, WP:PORNBIO and that there is every prospect of reliable sources being found due to sheer size of his body of work. Ash ( talk) 07:56, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
    • There's no evidence of him passing WP:GNG, and he clearly doesn't pass WP:PORNBIO. He doesn't pass WP:ARTIST as his work hasn't "been the subject of an independent book or feature-length film, or of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews". Epbr123 ( talk) 10:30, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
      • Perhaps you should take a break and have a nice cup of tea? I thought that being one of the most prolific porn stars of his generation would make it pretty obvious that he is notable for this reason alone. PORNBIO is a guide, not a bible. If you need an award to add, start with his lead role in "The Hills have Bi's", it was winner of Best Bi Picture & Best Sex Comedy at the 1996 Gay Erotic Video Awards. Ash ( talk) 12:56, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
        • The films won the awards, not him. Do you have a reliable source that he was one of the most prolific porn stars of his generation? Epbr123 ( talk) 13:08, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
          • The films are publications, they can be counted. How many people do you think have more gay porn film roles than him? Please expect to wait at least 24 hours if you have any more of these sorts of questions. Ash ( talk) 13:15, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions. -- Ash ( talk) 08:12, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. -- Ash ( talk) 08:12, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Keep per body of work that meets WP:ENT and WP:PORNBIO. Send to cleanup. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 01:21, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
    How does he pass WP:ENT or WP:PORNBIO. Epbr123 ( talk) 10:30, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
    Per career and significant roles, how can it possibly be perceived that does he not? Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 19:59, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
    Could you be more specific about how his career meets the notability criteria? Epbr123 ( talk) 20:10, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
    Perhaps more helpful in discussiong your concerns if you could explain how you believe his career and significant roles do not. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 20:37, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. Per Ash, and WP:Pornbio - "Has made unique contributions to a specific pornographic genre," This is simply yet another in roughly 20-30 recent AfD's against gay pornographic actors. -- Banjeboi 11:36, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
    Which of his contributions are unique? Epbr123 ( talk) 11:49, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
    There are very few comments on this page and only two attributed to Ash. I'll allow you to do your own work. -- Banjeboi 12:21, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
  • Delete fails pornbio, bio, all of the relevant notability guidelines for people. Bali ultimate ( talk) 17:13, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - fails pornbio and gng for me. I haven't seen any concrete evidence that verifies his notability. Mainly arguments based on being prolific which was rejected as a criteria when PORNBIO was being developed. Morbidthoughts ( talk) 16:04, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. Absolutely no evidence has been advanced at this time to rebut the nominator's assertion that this article fails to meet the general guideline for notability. Nothing has been done to meet the requirements of the Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons policy in regard to sourcing. BLP is a core policy and not negotiable. [Yes, this is a cut and paste.] Angus McLellan (Talk) 18:09, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
    • Thank you for a cut & paste opinion, in this case you do not appear to be basing your opinion on the sources actually included in this article. Ash ( talk) 14:19, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
  • Delete as above, in spite of the fact that the fellow's contributions in pornography are unique; everyone's DNA is unique, after all. Mostly it's mixed in a cup by a prop specialist. Jack Merridew 08:13, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
What is the world was that supposed to mean? Please, please (please!) tell me that isn't a 2 Girls 1 Cup reference... Stillwaterising ( talk) 23:13, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Comment there appears to be a recent rush of delete opinions either exclusively based on PORNBIO or strongly based on it (from the names of the contributors, likely to be a result of the link I included at Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(people)#Pornographic_actors). In this case Carrigan is an established film director for the specialist genre of erotic wrestling, please take that into account as PORNBIO is for actors not directors. I would also like to point out how blunt a criteria PORNBIO is by contrasting Corrigan's significant impact to the field, and his notability for being the second most credited actor in the history gay pornography, with Christopher Ashlee who amazingly passes PORNBIO because he was once named (along with seven other actors) in a group scene award in a 2009 Grabby but is notable for absolutely nothing else and has been credited with just 2 not-particularly-notable films. Ash ( talk) 14:11, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete the claim that he is "one of the most prolific porn stars of his generation" do not appear to be verifiable through any reliable sources, nor has Carrigan himself apparently received any significant coverage in any reliable, third-party sources. Only a few of his roles have even managed to be verified, which could be seen as a severe WP:BLP violation to associate him with other works and make claims about his career without quality reliable sources. Despite what some folk slike to claim, WP:BIO does NOT trump WP:N. If there are no sources, there are no sources. Ash claims there may be offline sources, but none have been produced. No objection to userifying until such sources are found, but as is, it should be deleted. -- Collectonian ( talk · contribs) 18:37, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
    • Please do not misrepresent my statement. I stated above that "there is every prospect of reliable sources being found due to sheer size of his body of work". It may not have been your intent, but your phrasing reads like an allegation that I was faking the existence of sources. I encourage you to consider the options explained in WP:ATD, particularly as I suggest that the current level of sources in the article are enough to avoid deletion as being unsourced (not that this is ever a good sole reason to delete as we would automatically delete all stub articles). Ash ( talk) 00:46, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep I find that 250+ (or 265+) acting credits and 30 director credits to be sufficient in establishing a notable career. -- Stillwaterising ( talk) 23:02, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete: I was unfamiliar with WP:pornbio, so I've had a little read through:
  1. The films he was in won the awards, not him, so fail.
  2. No mention of nominations, fail.
  3. Is not a Playboy playmate, fail.
  4. Hasn't started a trend, nor starred in an iconic, groundbreaking or blockbuster feature, nor is in the hall of fame, fail.
  5. Has only featured ONCE in mainstream media, fail. Ryan4314 ( talk) 15:33, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was no consensus. Cirt ( talk) 20:10, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Nick Harmon

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:PORNBIO. Epbr123 ( talk) 00:52, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was No consensus. Beeblebrox ( talk) 03:53, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Mohammad Gulzar Saifi

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A whopping total of 26 Google hits for this name. 161 for just " Gulzar Saifi", which is a redirect to this page. Other than that redirect, only two real Wiki pages actually link here--one for the film The Final Inch and one for the director of the film. Clearly not notable as an individual, although the film (of which he is reportedly the protagonist) certainly is. Most of this "biography" is actually information about the film. I recommend copying the small amount of biographical information from Mohammad Gulzar Saifi into the article The Final Inch and deleting with or without redirect. (A note: The user who started this article is currently unable to participate in this discussion due to the terms of an ArbCom decision. If it is felt that my nomination of the article at this time is inappropriate, please postpone it until he is able to contribute directly to the conversation.) Bueller 007 ( talk) 08:06, 23 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Speedy keep. Nominator is suggesting merging, which is not a deletion. See WP:Merge and delete. Taemyr ( talk) 13:10, 27 January 2010 (UTC) reply
I am not necessarily suggesting merging, although I would be satisfied with this outcome. I would like a decision about whether the article should be kept at all---hence I said "delete with or without redirect". Google hits seem to suggest that the subject of the article is completely non-notable---from what I understand it's not even been well confirmed that he is actually the protagonist in the movie---and therefore he may be unworthy even of having his info copied to The Final Inch. And if he is truly the protagonist, the meagre amount of information we have about him could be copied to the page about the movie, but that does not necessarily mean that a redirect page should be used. I am indeed asking for opinion about deletion of this page, therefore WP:Merge and delete does not apply. Bueller 007 ( talk) 04:23, 29 January 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete - Smerdis of Tlön ( talk) 18:37, 5 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Silex Flash CMS

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Reference review:

  • Official site: Reliable, Not independent of the subject.
  • Sourceforge: Reliable, Trivial.
  • GNU- Reliable, Trivial.

I can't find significant coverage for this software. Joe Chill ( talk) 18:48, 15 January 2010 (UTC) reply

The nature of the sources used to show notability necessary depends on an article's subject matter. Mere "obscurity" should not cause sources to be discounted, if they are considered to be reliable. Werner Heisenberg ( talk) 03:27, 16 January 2010 (UTC) — Werner Heisenberg ( talk • contribs) was recently blocked or banned for sock puppetry and is tagged to enforce policy. reply
Actually the prominence of the sources matters, because we'd have every topic from a college newspaper here otherwise (like every student who had a paragraph written about him, and so forth). In this case all the sources blog-like, and with the exception of the O'Reilly one are self-published. The O'Reilly blog only reproduces the official blurb of the software, and asks readers about their opinion. Some of the other look like splogs or aggregators of product descriptions at best. Pcap ping 08:56, 16 January 2010 (UTC) reply
Also the creator of the page, User:Lexoyo, appears to have a WP:COI, see link on his user page. Pcap ping 09:03, 16 January 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was no consensus. Cirt ( talk) 20:10, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Sourav Chatterjee

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He seems to be a marginally notable academic. The article has been subjected to edit warring ranging from attempts to stub it to one sentence to adding silly puffery. I'm nominating it in the hope that the claim(s) for notability will become apparent. Pcap ping 05:56, 23 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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  • Do you have sources saying that? Because mathematicians bloom early, so I could just as easily make up a rule that he should be famous by now. His citation count is 68, 22, 19, 18, 15, 15, 14, 10, 8, 7, 7, 6, 4.... I also note that the article makes no particular claim of an advancement in the field; it just says "he worked on" some things. One has to ask; if every professor works on some research topics, will not every professor get an article? Abductive ( reasoning) 03:00, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • The citation 68 is not him, but someone from Department of Physics and Astronomy, Northwestern University. But even the other numbers are not at all that low for 2-year-old math papers. He has sort of revolutionized Stein's method, finding striking new applications, e.g., gave a new and simple proof of the Komlós-Major-Tusnády strong approximation theorem (1976) for random walks and Brownian motion, which is a strengthening of Skorokhod's embedding theorem. The original KMT paper has 637 citations on Google Scholar. So, these are clearly advancements in probability, how great, I don't really know how to judge. At Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Mathematics#Whack-a-mole.3F, I wrote that
He might be exceptionally good, but it certainly seems too early to have an article on him. For instance, I know a lot of youngish probabilists who are more notable than him (say, based on citations of their first ten papers on Google Scholar, or on prizes) without wikipedia articles on them. But, with the current more realistic article, I don't think it matters much if it is deleted or not.
Maybe wikipedia should have articles on those other youngish probabilists, too. Anyway, My “vote” is weak delete, but can also keep. -- GaborPete ( talk) 06:32, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
The loss of the paper with 68 citations is very damaging to his case, and really should clinch the deletion. Abductive ( reasoning) 06:58, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was speedy keep. ( non-admin closure) Tim Song ( talk) 02:00, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

AmeriCares

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Hello there, Don the Sockpuppet made this nomination because no references exist for the article and it is written like a advertisement. Five Ton Sockpuppet ( talk) 00:46, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was speedy deleted, per WP:CSD #7 "No indication of importance (individuals, animals, organizations, web content)." - Tbsdy (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) talk 10:04, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply

RedSQ

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Contested prod. No reliable sources to verify notability. Ricky81682 ( talk) 04:09, 23 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 00:58, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply

American Technologies Network Corporation

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This article does not meet the notability guidelines for Wikipedia. Much effort has been made on the part of Phantomsteve to research notability, but none was found. The creator and main editor, Stripedfox, has admitted to COI. See the talk page for a detailed discussion between Stripedfox and Phantomsteve. I had previously proposed this for deletion, but since it was controversial, the PROD was removed, therefore I am now nominating through this method. Joshua Scott ( talk) 02:59, 23 January 2010 (UTC) reply

I wanted to ask all of you several questions about this article and about Wikipedia guidelines. As I understand, the main argument was that all of the publications I signed were promotional and ATN maybe have payed money for the material about their company. And for example "The New York Times" is more trusted and respected magazine. But, as I know, publishing in "The New York Times" also costs money. Two years ago to place the article to the first page of this magazine was nearly 2000$. Now, I think, it is much more expensive. So, the first question is, do you consider that only that magazines which take more money for the place on their pages than the rest are more trusted than others?

As for the next question, I have already written about this some time ago and I want to repeat this again. This company does not produce products of daily use, but it offers equipment for Army, Law Enforcement, Police, hunting, hiking etc. So, I think that this branch is enough important for the general Encyclopedia like this one. And as for the night vision and thermal night vision, do you really think that these inventions are not enough important for the world? And ATN were the fist who has developed some technologies for this branch, that many other companies now use (It is in my article).

Also I wanted to ask you to be so kind and list that magazines, publications and Award nominations that can be verified specifically for this industry. And I ask you not to write platitudes but to list concrete publications, which can really be interested to write an article about this company сonsidering it's specificity without money and which are really enough trusted for Wikipedia. Because I think that if there is no enough trusted sources for this concrete theme, it does not mean that this information is not interesting for Encyclopedia, that only means that there is info that is not enough developed in magazines, but despite that it still has it's informational value.

And for the last one, I give you the link to the list of magazines and PDF files of the publications about this company. This list is constantly updated and I hope that you will find respected in this area magazines there that will be enough trusted for Wiki. And I also wanted to recall that in other Encyclopedias only subject specialists approve articles, so if you are Language Specialist you should correct and approve only text, but not the informational content I think. And to approve or deny the article I will kindly ask you to consult with specialists in this concrete theme. That is all, I hope you will review your opinion after consulting with specialists about this theme and I will wait for your decision. Stripedfox | Talk 10:27, 29 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was no consensus. Cirt ( talk) 20:09, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Pál Sümegi

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Procedural - I declined a PROD on this one, since Gscholar turned up decent citation counts. I know nothing about archaeology and read no Hungarian however, so I refer here for further discussion Ray Talk 00:02, 23 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Delete and moveAdd his name and the sentance of why he's notable with citation to List of Hungarians. It will remain redlinked and keep its one sentance long article structure and two references and the redlink might prompt someone to actually create a real article. Nefariousski ( talk) 02:09, 23 January 2010 (UTC) reply
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  • Note: The Hungarian article says he is a doctor of the Hungarian Academy of Science, docent in a Hungarian university, has written 8 books, chapters in 37 books, many articles in periodicals and has 260 "scientific announcements" (eerr.. I don't know this is the proper name of them in English) Their summarized impact factor is 22.000. He has got many scholarships and two prizes. The sad thing is: I don't know this all made him notable, or not according to the enwiki rules. -- Perfectmiss ( talk) 15:00, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

I do not agree with the deletion. Notability and fame are not the same. His notability is supported by the above-written references. Earning fame in geoarcheology as in many other auxiliary sciences of archaeology or historiograpy (heraldics, faleristics, sfragistics) is practically impossible unless someone starts a National Geography TV carrier on some popular issue such as "How to dig out the Holy Grail?" My personal opinion is that we can find easier notable historians among 'unknown' researchers than among famous essayists compiling 1000 page best-sllers by up-grading commonplaces on popular issues. Rokarudi--Rokarudi 17:33, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • The brevity of the article, I suspect. Not that this is a bad reason to delete an article; this one says, in total, "Pál Sümegi (born May 11, 1960 in Tapolca) is a Hungarian geoarchaeologist at the University of Szeged." As such, it could be deleted under A7. If people can be bothered to tell us what somebody is noted for, why have an article, right? Abductive ( reasoning) 09:44, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 00:58, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply

One Lone Car

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Does not meet notability guidelines. Lacks significant coverage in 3rd party sources (references provided are either primary ones, blogs or trivial). No indication of awards, charted singles or albums or anything else that might help meet notability guidelines. Not on a notable label either. RadioFan ( talk) 23:52, 24 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Do Not Delete- I live in NYC and I've seen lots of write ups about this band when they come through. Also, i found this from Dallas/Fort Worth, Texas --

http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2008/dec/13/live-review-one-lone-car-radiant-and-calhoun-lolas/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bball606 ( talk • contribs) 19:20, 29 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. Cirt ( talk) 00:58, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Fremont College

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Non-notable proprietary career college with no significant third-party references. Reads like an ad, author is apparently a single purpose account. Searching Fremont College on google returns three related hits: this article, and two links to their website, google news comes back with absolutely nothing.

Accredited or not, as a for-profit institution, Fremont should be held to the same notability standards as a business, and in that regard, it fails miserably. 2 says you, says two 23:12, 24 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Technically, yes they are accredited. It is through one of those national organizations designed to meet the bare minimum DoE requirements to receive Title IV federal aid, not one of the more recognized regional accreditation agencies. I also remember reading somewhere that the idea of all schools being notable does not necessarily hold true for for-profit institutions. Anyone can set up a career school and get dubious "national accreditation" and call themselves a college. 2 says you, says two 13:50, 25 January 2010 (UTC
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  • Keep. Google News unearthed a fascinating connection between this institution in its 1956 naming and Sequoia University, which is better documented. At the time the institution was investigated as a diploma mill and received attention across the state of California. It's worth keeping for that alone. Edward Vielmetti ( talk) 01:46, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep in some form, I suppose, per Edward Vielmetti. I am not opposed to a merge or what have you, I just think there is a home for this content somewhere. JBsupreme ( talk) 01:53, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Strong keep - Among other things, it's fully accredited as an institution of higher education. (I verified its accreditation on its accreditor's database, and from a US Dept of Education directory I verified that the accreditor is recognized as an accreditor.) Furthermore, Fremont apparently has a long history. -- Orlady ( talk) 02:36, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
Past consensus has stated that accreditation is not necessarily an indicator of notability when the school in question is for-profit or proprietary, these schools are to be treated like businesses for WP:N. That being said, if there's a connection with L. Ron Hubbard then this should be kept, personally I'd feel better with a merge - Sequoia has better sourcing and is more developed, we could fit what is verifiable from Fremont with that. 2 says you, says two 05:16, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 00:57, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Lisa Robertson (television)

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Not to be confused with any other person of the same name, the subjec of this minimally referenced biography is a TV presenter on QVC. The article is essentially a paraphrase of the QVC page on her. Press reporting seems largely limited to passing mentions and a stalking case some years back. No doubt well-known thanks to her work, but not necessarily "notable" in the WP:N Wikipedia sense. Not much here here really. Angus McLellan (Talk) 22:37, 24 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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  • Delete non notable biography. There is a lack of a properly referenced body of work. Stormbay ( talk)
  • KeepThis article should be reinstated and should not of been deleted.I see less notable people with less information and no referenced body of work having biographies listed on Wikipedia.Also almost everyone article or biography is a paraphrase from where the contributor has copy and pasted it from somewhere else. Laker44 ( talk) 20:52, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 00:57, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Search3

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Non-notable website, article written by single-purpose user who is a co-founder of the company. There is some coverage here, but beyond that I have been unable to find any significant third-party coverage from reliable sources. Haakon ( talk) 21:04, 24 January 2010 (UTC) reply


Thanks for your review, i understand the feedback and can provide significantly more links to articles written about Search3 from many sites, will that help? I can't do much about the WP:SPA if other independent people edit the document does that remove this concern? I also see many sites like ours within Wikipedia so would love your assistance to make this page more appropriate, can you help edit it?-- Cdclayton ( talk) 20:27, 25 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Comment cdclayton, the issue isn't really that this is the only thing your editing. A thousand people could edit it, but that doesn't make it any more or less notable of a search engine CTJF83 chat 07:26, 27 January 2010 (UTC) reply
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Delete for now, with no prejudice against recreation later when it becomes more notable (more than Yet Another Me-Too metasearch with release-buzz that promptly falls into obscurity). I checked the refs, and they seem to be are mostly roundup/annotated-lists (not in-depth), passing mention, or near-launch-time items mostly quoting involved people (not independent in-depth analysis). DMacks ( talk) 08:26, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was Keep. The IP user who was the person who actually wanted deletion did not come participate in the discussion, the formal nominator had no !vote, and nobody else has participated. With nobody actively calling for deletion, the most appropriate way to close is as keep, without prejudice to renomination if someone is actively willing to argue for deletion. Metropolitan90 (talk) 06:18, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Mikey L. Hoeven

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Creating this debate page on behalf of [ 86.40.214.5] who did not complete all steps for AfD. Reason given was: "Notability is not inherited, this is a biography with no independent multiple reliable sources, graduating, having children and being married for 25 years is not notable" DOOMSDAYER520 ( Talk| Contribs) 16:33, 24 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 00:57, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Mustang Mike

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Autobiography of unremarkable wrestler. Fails WP:GNG. Delicious carbuncle ( talk) 10:29, 24 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was Merge relevant content to Van Tuong Nguyen. Beeblebrox ( talk) 04:02, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Darshan Singh

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Darshan Singh is only mentioned in primary sources, namely news sources, and only respect to a single event, namely the execution of Van Tuong Nguyen. He does not meet the general notability standard, nor the specific one for people, because of lack of coverage in secondary sources. See also People notable only for one event. Request Deletion Bejnar ( talk) 06:51, 24 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. JForget 00:23, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

English country music

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This article is unreferenced, and because of the nebulous subject matter, I see no way to reference it. Even if we verify the events described, we cannot easily verify that the culturual significance is anything other than the article author's opinion. Chutznik ( talk) 06:28, 24 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. JForget 00:22, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Desktop Factory

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Non-notable corporation, lacks external refs, is a small startup that never actually sold a product and was consumed by another company. MBisanz talk 05:59, 24 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. JForget 00:21, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Dan Briody

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Considering the only source is an op-ed piece in a newspaper and the books don't appear to be notable on their own (the first is ranked 873,000th on WP), I believe he fails our notability guidelines. MBisanz talk 05:57, 24 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 00:57, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Pint o' Politics: A Discourse on the Modern Poltical Climate

AfDs for this article:
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Self-published book with no evidence of notability. — RHaworth ( talk · contribs) 04:23, 24 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was no consensus. Cirt ( talk) 20:08, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Kaneva Game Platform

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Article describes thing which no longer exists RawrMage ( talk) 19:38, 17 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 00:56, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Manga BoyZ

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Non-notable role-playing game, with no coverage in reliable sources. TN X Man 21:00, 17 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Manga BoyZ is not a Manga but Role-playing_game ! Le Grimoire is a publisher in France since 1992. Manga BoyZ is one of the universe published by the editor. Four books are available. Reliable sources can be found. -- Ellwen ( talk) 19:12, 19 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was no consensus. JForget 00:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Necessary Records

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I can't find significant coverage for this record label. Joe Chill ( talk) 02:04, 17 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 00:56, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Airpushers

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I can't find significant coverage for this band. Joe Chill ( talk) 01:13, 24 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was Keep. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 21:02, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Emma Summerton

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Not notable. Does not meet any of the criteria of WP:CREATIVE. May also fail WP:PROMO Wikipeterproject ( talk) 00:03, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Keep This photographer does fail WP:CREATIVE, but I believe is notable given the large number of citations of her photography from a wide range of sources. A simple google search and a google news search bring up lots of hits on her and she seems to have collaborated in more than a cursory way with a large number of magazines and fashion houses. She is notable as a photographer, but not a creative one. I have added a few of the sources I turned up and will try to add some more later. Jenafalt ( talk) 15:28, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. She's a notable fashion photographer; as Jenafalt as demonstrated, there are more than enough sources to prove notability here. Rebecca ( talk) 15:43, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Squeaks by with adequate sources, as per Rebecca's observation. Warrah ( talk) 21:12, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep a pro photographer with such a wide resume, including editorial work for Vogue and the like, is certainly notable. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 17:42, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Weak keep - I am persuaded by the keep arguments. Any POV/spam concerns should be addressed through editing. Those, however, are editing issues, and I am persuaded that the subject merits inclusion. Cocytus [»talk«] 00:14, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was no consensus. Cirt ( talk) 20:08, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Adam Ferguson (photographer)

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Not notable. Does not meet the criteria of WP:CREATIVE Wikipeterproject ( talk) 00:07, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Comment: That's no problem. Even though I am arguing to delete the page, I can clearly see why you would have thought it was worth creating. Of course these debates - regardless of their outcome - should never reflect on an creator/editor who has acted in good faith (as you have clearly done). Wikipeterproject ( talk) 21:42, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete without prejudice. This was a tough one for me, I thought that this person should be notable enough as per WP:GNG, but apparently he lacks the non-trivial coverage from multiple third party sources. That's not to say there never will be such sources available, so perhaps in time this one can be recreated. JBsupreme ( talk) 07:16, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. I know the consensus so far has been 'delete', but I did a bit of in-depth searching and found some non-trivial coverage to satisfy WP:GNG - namely [37] [38] [39] [40] [41], and to some extent [42] (the first one also goes part-way to satisfying WP:CREATIVE's 'significant exhibition' criterion). The list goes on. Therefore, I'd say that this article satisfies the general notability guideline - significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. JulieSpaulding ( talk) 07:26, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
(Response): Thanks for the links. Unfortunately the definition of a "non-trivial" source is a bit subjective. There are however some guidelines on relaible sources at WP:RELIABLE, which seems to favour news articles and scholorly sources. Self-published articles, blogs and promotional material are considered "questionable sources". Some of the links you provided might fall into the latter category. There are many, many photographers (and other creative professionals) who get mentioned in a range of material, but I am not sure that these are what the guidelines intend. Wikipeterproject ( talk) 21:37, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Photography-related deletion discussions. — Jenafalt ( talk) 16:20, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Again, as with the afd for Emma Summerton this article does fail WP:CREATIVE but is still about someone who is notable enough for an article on wikipedia. Not all photographers have to be very creative to be notable - some are notable for their commercial success, for example. Their are many sources available to show that this person is notable. Jenafalt ( talk) 16:26, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
    • Response: WP:CREATIVE isn't about the creativity of the photographer. It's about their notability. As a rule, the photographer should pass at least one of the criteria set out in the policy and this should be supported by independent and reliable sources. We don't have that with this article. The one reliable source (Time magazine) is an article that mentions Ferguson but doesn't confirm his notability. I encourage everyone commenting here to read WP:CREATIVE and see if they can't find one or two sources that provide evidence against one of the criteria. If that doesn't happen, tyhe keep votes really aren't worth much and the article should be deleted on the basis of lack of notability Wikipeterproject ( talk) 21:27, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
    • Response I am confused as to why this article has to meet WP:CREATIVE. Why can't the photographer be notable in other terms? Jenafalt ( talk) 07:51, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply
      • Response: He certainly can be, but then the article would only give passing reference to his photography and focus on the reason for his notability. As it stands, it's about him as a photographer, which is why his notability as a photographer is being debated. Even the article's name states that he is a photographer! WP:CREATIVE provides the specific guidelines for determining notability of photographers, among others. If you have evidence that he is notable for some other reason, by all means rewrite the artile and provide the sources! Wikipeterproject ( talk) 08:47, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply
    • Response: I suppose what I am saying is that he can be a notable photographer without being a particularly creative one. This was also the point I was making with the afd for Emma Summerton. There are some photographers who are not notable as art photographers, but are notable for other things - one of which might be them being a very in demand fashion or commercial photographer. The work doesn't have to be very good in a strictly creative sense, but their use by lots of people is. So for example virgin broadband might be a terrible broadband provider, but it is still important because lots of people use it. - maybe a not very good example, but can you see what I am getting at? I think that the WP:CREATIVE might be appropriate for art photographers, but not for commercial photographers. Jenafalt ( talk) 10:22, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Response. The "creative" in WP:CREATIVE is just a tag. If you read the first line of the criteria, it's for creative professionals, where the word "creative" means "make stuff". It covers scientists, academics, economists, professors, authors, editors, journalists, filmmakers, photographers, artists, architects, engineers, and other creative professionals. It doesn't, as far as I can tell, try to imply that the creative professional is particularly artistic. Wikipeterproject ( talk) 14:10, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. Interned at VII, shortly thereafter invited to join a small and select group (people from VII and Magnum) to appear (he's here) at "Seeking Justice: Social Activism through Journalism & Documentary Practice". No he doesn't meet WP:CREATIVE, just as a huge percentage of Wikipedia biographees don't meet WP:CREATIVE. Flash your tits for a photographer one day and be airbrushed into the centre pages of Playboy (US circulation 2.4M) and you are guaranteed an article, have photos by you shown in Time (US circulation 3.4M) and you're still a nobody. Do note, however, that its bizarreness aside, WP:CREATIVE is just one part of a page whose preambulatory nutshell says that A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject. Ferguson was covered very significantly by Photo District News, got more than a mention at Time, and is written up (not merely as an alumnus but as a featured guest) by an arm of Griffith University. These are all independent of Ferguson and their total adds up to significance to me. -- Hoary ( talk) 14:04, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Passes WP:GNG. Coverage in Photo District News and Time is non-trivial in my opinion. Jujutacular  T ·  C 19:57, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was Speedy keep, nomination was made by sock of banned user. Finlay McWalter • Talk 15:52, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

List of awards and nominations received by Evanescence

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Delete as nom. Auwest182 ( talk) 15:37, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Speedy Close - bad faith nomination.-- blue 520 15:51, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Jayjg (talk) 02:56, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Trey A. Corrales

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Per WP:BLP1E and WP:PERPETRATOR, this is not a notable killer. His co-accused's article is already at AfD. Blood Red Sandman (Talk) (Contribs) 23:52, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Delete per above. -- Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) ( talk) 17:28, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. Jayjg (talk) 02:56, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Tha Grustle

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An unreleased album that isn't reliably sourced for a release date, track list. Lack of significant coverage in reliable sources. List of "confirmed" tracks is unsourced. List of "possible" tracks (which is longer) is unsourced. The only thing reliably sourced, by a single source, is the title. As such, if fails WP:NALBUMS and WP:CRYSTAL. Runs afoul of WP:HAMMER too. Niteshift36 ( talk) 22:50, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was No consensus (default keep). Non-admin closure. Swarm( Talk) 22:37, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Huggle, Sweden

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Once-sentence, unnotable, no refrences, an orphan. Belugaboy535136 contribs 22:41, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

FallingRain.com does not limit itself to officially recognized (i.e., as a location in a national census) communities. It's a wonderful service, but when you run your own hometown and then look at the fallingrain.com description of nearby localities, you'll see that most of them are not something that you and your neighbors would never refer to as a "town". An apartment building is a "populated place", but that doesn't mean that it's a community. I'm all in favor of the right to an article for actual incorporated cities and towns, as well as unincorporated communities that have their own post office, but we have to make sure that the inherent right of notability for populated places doesn't get abused-- which appears to be the case here. Mandsford ( talk) 02:29, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Can you interpret or translate them for us? When I search for the word "Huggle" in the first hit, I get no result; and a similar search in the other hits produces results that I'm unable to relate to the concept of verifiabilty. Deor ( talk) 02:35, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Of the pages from Heby municipality, http://www.heby.se/index.php3?use=fortroende&cmd=showperson&id=173&lang=1&s_tpl=print is the page for a municipal council member who lives in Huggle Östervåla sockennämnd 1848-1856.pdf AND Östervåla kommunalstämmoprotokoll 1863 till 1882.pdf are transcriptions of minute books with details such as "The parish committee members elected until the year 1850:" and their addresses - some are in Huggle, meaning that Huggle existsed in 1850. del5.pdf has a reference to Huggle ("014 Holvarbo - Huggle - By (I)") in a table at the bottom of page 4 (folio page 85). http://www.booli.se/salda/villa/huggle/327768/ lists the price (and the price per square meter) of a house in Huggle. http://www.holfve.se/brev.htm lists Anders Mattsson, born in Huggle in 1745. http://www.unc.se/foretag/visax.php3?id=1213177 is someone's address in Huggle. So there is plenty of evidence that Huggle is a long-established settlement, closely connected with Östervåla - Eastmain ( talk • contribs) 03:41, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
An apartment building is populated, but that doesn't mean it's notable. Belugaboy535136 contribs 12:41, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete unless reliable sources can be found documenting this place. Our common outcomes do not override essential content policies such as WP:V. Them From Space 13:03, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep as noted above for common outcomes. However, this may be more of a hamlet, which may be dificult to verify, and thus could be merged and redirected into Heby Municipality. Bearian ( talk) 17:53, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Weak delete It's not on the List of urban areas in Sweden which includes all geographically separate localities of 200 people or more. It's a "name on a map" that seems to cover about 3-5 farms, judging from satellite photos such as this Eniro map (zoom in a little from standard view). I guess it is used as a name in the property register for these few farms; the same goes for all the other dozens of names that you see on the map surrounding Östervåla, they are also not separate localities but likely property names associated with a few farms each. Huggle is used as a postal adress at "street" level within Östervåla, it doesn't have the status as a separate postal "village". (NN, Huggle XXX, SE-740 46 Östervåla, Sweden if anyone wants to send a letter.) Tomas e ( talk) 18:47, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep - Geographic articles are an important part of Wikipedia, and are almost inherintly notable. More importantly per WP:5P, "Wikipedia is an encyclopedia that incorporates elements of general and specialized encyclopedias, almanacs, and gazetteers." It is established that this place does exist, and thats good enough for me. -- Marcusmax( speak) 23:09, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • !vote : (this is not a vote, I do not know the policy for tiny places, so I'm not sure if a place is considered notable) But all the talk above that we need RS and V to prove 'the existence of this as a definable settlement' made me try to find some sources, these sources are NOT sources to put in the article, it is not sources that prove notability, but they should prove that it is not a made up place, and they prove that the municipal recognize the place. So Huggle is a place in Sweden, there is enough RS (in Swedish) to prove that, it is small if not VERY small place! Should it be described in Wikipedia? I do not know:
    • [1] from a government? entity that proves at least that someone in one of their working groups lives there
    • [2] , [3] a overview plan for use of territory from the Heby Municipality that states that huggle is a large unused area. -- Stefan talk 06:54, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply
      • Interesting, so by "place" is Huggle a municipality like a town or a village, or is it just a local name for an area of land? The former would warrant an article but probably not the latter. Is there a relevant WikiProject to bring this up at? Editors who are familiar with Sweden might be of some assistance. Them From Space 11:44, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply
See Hegvalds comment below, it is NOT a municipality, as I stated Heby Municipality is the municipality that Huggle is part of, in Swedish it is a sv:by. I did not want to call it village since I thought by and village was not really the same, that is why I called it place (that was neutral enough), Hegvald did a good job of explaining what I kind of guessed but did not know, thanks. -- Stefan talk 00:21, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Comment: Historically speaking, Huggle is a by, which is a historic division on a sub-parish level, consisting of a few farms. "Hamlet" may be the closest English equivalent. (By can also be translated "village", but a by in Sweden is usually nothing like an English or continental European village.) Today, it is just an address. According to http://www.ratsit.se, there are currently 22 people above the age of 18 living in Huggle. -- Hegvald ( talk) 14:25, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep per Eastmain. Lets all move there. JBsupreme ( talk) 21:48, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Not one source has convinced me that this is a separate geographical place such as a village. Wikipedia is based on verifiability and this so far has not been verified. All links given above that I have followed fail to show this. That Huggle is real is not the point, unless we have references that show for certain it is a separate inhabited place it fails any claim of notability. If it can be shown that it is a separate "Hamlet" then fine but I don't think this has been done yet including the link Hegvald has given which shows nothing. Polargeo ( talk) 16:11, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • The link shows exactly what I claimed it would show (once you insert the right search term, obviously): that there are now 22 adult people with the address Huggle. Not sure what your point is. Would Huggle, with 22 adult inhabitants, suddenly turn "notable" if there was a source saying that it is, indeed, a separately defined place of a certain type? -- Hegvald ( talk) 16:34, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep real place=notable WP:PILLARS and WP:DEFACTO. Why do people want to keep dumbing down the encyclopedia. Has the nominator read the 5 Pillars? Let me quote the opening line of the 1st pillar: "Wikipedia is an encyclopedia that incorporates elements of general and specialized encyclopedias, almanacs, and gazetteers" (emphasis added) perhaps someone is missing something... Carlossuarez46 ( talk) 21:05, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
I think that the key word in that first pillar is "elements". The policies that have evolved over the years guide which elements of an encyclopedia, almanac or gazetteer automatically merit their own article and which ones would be open to debate, hence the concept that "Wikipedia is not a directory of everything that exists or has existed". All of us, whether we argue for a keep or a delete, have our opinions about what is improving or "dumbing down" an encyclopedia. Although it's debatable as to whether Huggle would be notable now, the Swedish census information that was provided by Eastmain indicates that this would have been considered notable in the 19th century, and notability does not expire. Mandsford ( talk) 13:42, 5 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was Keep plenty of secondary reviews ( WP:NACD) CTJF83 chat 19:32, 6 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Catch Me If You Can (album)

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non-notable album; unencyclopaedic Rapido ( talk) 22:30, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. although this should not prevent a later redirect if a conensus for such later emerges on the talk page Scott Mac (Doc) 21:49, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Alejandro (song)

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The reason for this AFD discussion is because a few editors redirect the page claiming it is not notable. The relevant notabilty is found in WP:NSONG, this song has charted in the Official UK charts. SunCreator ( talk) 21:09, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Comment - The The Fame Monster does not have CHART positions or structure of article. Of course you could merge any two articles together, but there would be no logic in doing so. You are correct that The Sun (newspaper) is a questionable source despite being the tenth biggest(by circularion) newspaper in the world, but what it says is not a factor to determine notability. SunCreator ( talk) 03:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
What do you mean by structure of article? --Legolas (talk2me) 04:03, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Commment Now two national notable charts, but even one is notable enought for WP:NSONG SunCreator ( talk) 03:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Can still be includewd in discography and Monster. --Legolas (talk2me) 04:03, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment - Sensible comment. I don't think this is a case or ignore all rules myself however. Looking at the article how it stands now, it's quite presentable. SunCreator ( talk) 03:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
I was anxiously waiting for you to reply my argument. Quite presentable? Well, that's in fact a case of opinion of view. Not trying to be rude or something, but to me, you just created a music and lyrics section and thrown one unreliable source for it. [11]; put three random reviews to the song which could be easily merged to The Fame Monster (Two of which are not exactly reviewing the song and also are/could be presented into the album critical reception) The live performances section also isn't needed since it's only one (technically) and it already is in the Monster Ball Tour article.
See? I'm just trying to see what's the point of this article if it doesn't have a worth background section, and every single thing here can be merged somewhere without a problem. Sparks Fly 23:08, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment
  1. The edit you refer to was made by IP 71.93.182.103. Be more careful before accusing me.
  2. The reason why a seperate article makes sense, is both structure and content. The structure allows for a logical progression and a central place to find information about the song. Content wise, placing it elsewhere creates problems of it being removed because it's not relevant to the other article. You could create a Alejandro section in the The Fame Monster article, but it will be an out of place looking section added to the bottom(?) that would make other editors want to remove it.
  3. If you don't believe the last point, please make a start by putting the music sample into the The Fame Monster article and see how it goes.
  4. WP:SIZERULE applies. How about you initiate a discussion on Talk:The_Fame_Monster and see if other editors are happy to split the article in two. As an active phone editor I'll be happy to support a split.
  5. The Policy says best practice is to use WP:NSONGS to determine if a seperate article is notable. You think it's not a problem to merge elsewhere, let me ask you, how is it a problem to have it as a seperate article?
SunCreator ( talk) 00:32, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Because users will be reading the same content twice, once in Fame Monster and here. Hence its a waste of article space. --Legolas (talk2me) 04:03, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Redirect is approproiate, as opposed to keep, because of WP:NSONGS, please read the third sentence in the third paragraph. "Notability aside, a separate article on a song is only appropriate when there is enough verifiable material to warrant a reasonably detailed article; articles unlikely ever to grow beyond stubs should be merged to articles about an artist or album". To assume that it will grow beyond its present state is in violation of WP:CRYSTAL. This information should be merged and redirected to The Fame Monster. J04n( talk page) 18:53, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Thanks. SunCreator ( talk) 19:47, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment I read that third sentence. Think about what you said 'unlikely ever to grow' does not apply here, we are not talking about some song from 30 years ago with no new information which that wording is intended for; this is as yet unreleased single on the currently most popular(by Google hits, google news, wikipedia page views etc) artists in the world. To contend that this article is 'unlikely ever to grow' is a fantasy. Indeed, there is lots that can be said already and some editors start to add it but it gets removed as they awaiting WP:RS, not blogs etc. If that was not the case you would see an article like fr:Alejandro_(Lady_Gaga) already. SunCreator ( talk) 03:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep We already know that this will be released as a single, so why should we redirect it when we'll just have to make it again? That seems a little pointless to me. Besides, more information will be found as the weeks and months go by, and more people will continue to make pages like this. I don't see a valid reason to delete it. Sure, there isn't too much information, but it isn't like Wikipedia absolutely has to have every article be huge. Look at all the others on Wikipedia. The bottom line is, even though there isn't much information now, more will come in the near future. The page will expand in time. Even if you delete this page, others will create more and we'll have discussions like this one again. Why don't we just leave it alone? Weaselpie ( talk) 00:29, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply
First, your point is simple the best definition of what is WP:CRYSTAL. Take a look at this and see if what you brought is still valid. And second, who are we? There's no current information about this being single, and even if this is in fact a single, it's still not enough for it's own page, being a single doesn't warrant that. Third, if the consensus of this page will be delete/redirect, people could create the article 100x and we would delete all these times, we just need to know what do do. I won't consider this last as one of your points but still. Sparks Fly 00:51, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply
It is also interesting how it is all "edit once in a full moon"-people that pops up to say keep. Nymf talk/ contr. 21:53, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply


WP:FANCRUFT is a serious issue here. --Legolas (talk2me) 06:34, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment - That's why we have notability critera to determine the difference. SunCreator ( talk) 03:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
And we seriously don't need duplicate content to exist. --Legolas (talk2me) 04:03, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
"Once in a full moon"? I am certainly not that kind of person. I have made many contributions to Wikipedia in my time as a member. And I'm not just doing this to be stubborn. Almost every day I am seeing new news posts about how Lady GaGa wants to cast Lara Stone in her music video for Alejandro (most came from various European newspapers, but some also came from American ones). I feel that there is no reason to delete this page because a) it will just end up being a waste of time for the people who worked on it and b) there is a very likely chance that it will end up being a single. You'll just waste your time deleting it while others make more. And, eventually, if it is released, it will have been a mistake to have deleted it in the first place. Why should this page about Alejandro, a likely candidate to be a single, be deleted when Ke$ha's song, Blah Blah Blah, hasn't even been released at all? If this is because the page doesn't have much information, it's like I said before: more info will come in time. Again, I see no reason to delete the page. By the way - "Once in a full moon" should be "once in a blue moon". A full moon comes around once a month, right? Sounds pretty frequent if you ask me. Weaselpie ( talk) 01:32, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Not that it has anything to do with the topic at all, but once in a full moon is exactly what I was referring to. People who pop up once a month to do 2-3 edits. Besides, we aren't suggesting that the page be deleted; we are suggesting that it should be redirected. That way it can be restored when/if it becomes notable. As for your comment about casting and that other article supposedly justifying this article, see Wikipedia:Other stuff exists and Wikipedia:Speculation. Nymf talk/ contr. 02:09, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment - Chart information. Article structure. Information on the song. None of which you would want in The Fame Monster. SunCreator ( talk) 03:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
The Fame Monster already has them and is needed there. Adding a wikia link doesnot qualify for notable source. --Legolas (talk2me) 04:03, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
You two provided the same point, but I still don't find it worth. The song was never used as a official promotional single; it went only for iTunes before the whole album and still, this is a "fan-known thing", there's no source backing it as a single to promote the album. Sparks Fly 21:56, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Completely agree with Sparks. --Legolas (talk2me) 06:34, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment - In what way do you consider it doesn't meet WP:NSONG. It has charted in the UK charts and I just found out it charted in the Hungarina charts also. SunCreator ( talk) 00:25, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep It has charted in two territories therefore it meets notability guidlines. It doesn't have to be in the singles chronology but since it's charted it should have it's own page the same as Beautiful, Dirty Rich or Wait Your Turn from Rihanna. Jayy008 ( talk) 00:31, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Well I Disagree, I wasn't basing it on WP:CRYSTAL. I was basing it on meeting notability guidlines. Jayy008 ( talk) 17:38, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment - Never have I seen it argued at AFD that an article should be of GA quality before! Wikipedia has no such criteria. We do not delete article below GA standard. Wikipedia is work in progress; see WP:NOTDONE. SunCreator ( talk) 03:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Except for charting, it doesnot meet any other notability guideline, fail again. --Legolas (talk2me) 04:21, 5 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment - You want an article to be notable for two reasons? One is enough. SunCreator ( talk) 03:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete/merge, almost every song from The Fame Monster has charted so should we have a page for each one? Same with Beyonce's I Am Sasha Fierce. This is become a pointless argument. It is a breach of WP:crystal. The info could easily be contained on the album's page. Lil-unique1 ( talk) 18:53, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Yeah, it's the whole point that we want to know. People are assuming that just because two dubious websites have talked about a music video, that it's already a single. Sparks Fly 22:11, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment - I'm glad you both brought that up, as it's a common misconception. WP:NSONG does not say it has to be a released single or have a released video. WP:NSONG does say however, the song has to chart - which this song has. SunCreator ( talk) 03:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment that is a silly pointless comment because BPI and RIAA have said that due to the growth in sales from places like AMazon and iTunes more and more album songs are being sold individually without being released fully as singles. This could mean that eventually we could have pages for every song on an album whether its released or not. there is not enough information here to warrant its own page. Lil-unique1 ( talk) 22:07, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment - Take a look at this graph. It's the average number of new tracks each week in the UK Singles Chart. In the 1994-2005 period before downloads the average was around 18 per week. Today it is about 9; about half of what it was before downloads. Meaning that wikipedia will create much less song articles since the download era then it did before. SunCreator ( talk) 22:30, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment - The exception being those where is nothing there will ever be anything to write about. That does not apply here. Consider fr:Alejandro (Lady Gaga) for starters. SunCreator ( talk) 03:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Alejandro has charted in the top 5 in hungary! it should be kept as it is clearly a huge hit there and has met more success than most of her songs there. It is also highly likely to be released as a single. For the time it should be kept as it is a highly charting song by Lady Gaga, but when/if it is released as a single, there will be a strong argument to keep it anyway.
  • Redirect - Even if the song has charted in the top 5 in Hungray, that virtually means nothing for basis in an article. Re-establish article when there is more notability, the single has been confirmed, etc. Candyo32 ( talk) 23:43, 5 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment - The chart means everything, it's the agreed criteria for whether a song is notable or not. SunCreator ( talk) 03:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Yeah, but as I said before, what's the point of a whole article just to show that the song hit Top 75 in the U.K. when her discography page already does it? Just ignore this notability rule essay that you point for a second and think. Sparks Fly 13:58, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment - It's not just the Charts. I highlighted that because it's the information that makes the article notable. There is other information, some of which I added today on the critical reception of the single. Wikipedia is a work in progress so don't expect it all done. Also this article exceeds a stub, wikipedia has 3,186,672 articles of which at least 1,444,438 are stubs. Go get argeement to delete them all and then I'd review your point. SunCreator ( talk) 19:31, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Erhm... I do think that you can provide your opinion here moreover a keep argument, since you were the one who nominated the article for delete. (?) Sparks Fly 14:00, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Comment
  1. I created this AFD to get discussion. I was open and hopefully there was some logical reason that a few editors redirect this article. I did not say delete or keep, so necessary to clarify my position having heard the opinions of others.
  2. AFD is a discussion not a WP:!VOTE so frankly saying I cannot 'provide your opinion' is silly. SunCreator ( talk) 19:31, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  1. If you nominate an article for deletion, that presumably means that you are going to present a argument to delete the article. So, when you came here to say that you want to keep the article seemed unfamiliar. If you wanted to get a consensus for keeping the article you should have stuck to the talk page. Sparks Fly 20:00, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment - That would of been ideal. But I could not 'stick to the talk page' as the article(and talk) was salted and uneditable. An admin agreed to unsalt if it went to Afd. SunCreator ( talk) 20:12, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Redirect to The Fame Monster. As was pointed out, most of the information is covered at that article, information about this song charting can be covered there if it is not already present, and there is not enough information. Yes, this meets WP:NSONGS by having charted on two national music charts, but that policy also states, "Notability aside, a separate article on a song is only appropriate when there is enough verifiable material to warrant a reasonably detailed article; articles unlikely ever to grow beyond stubs should be merged to articles about an artist or album." We can't just make an article for every song that's ever charted simply because it charted, there has to be sufficient information, and this simply just doesn't have enough. – Chase ( talk) 05:48, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Two points on 'unlikely ever to grow beyond stubs' :
    1. It's is wild speculation to assume this article is not ever going to grow. Plenty of things I already know to add to it. It's not some song from the 1940 or something.
    2. Stub. On the issue of stubs, you are assuming it's not beyond a stub already. I contend it's past that point, no one has labelled it a stub. I asked over at Stub sorting if it was a stub. I got the clear reply No, that's far beyond a stub, in my opinion. — Martin
SunCreator ( talk) 18:49, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
comment, it not as if this information couldn't be included on the album's page until there is clearer indication that this is a single. Lil-unique1 ( talk) 22:52, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment – it is also wild speculation to assume that this article will grow. It's not a single, it's not confirmed to be a single, so until it is confirmed as a single or it receives a substantial amount of coverage for whatever reason, we should assume it will likely not grow. Also, as Sparks Fly pointed out, it's beyond ridiculous to have a page with information that is conveyed/could be conveyed at other, larger articles just because its subject charted as a non-single. Please note that WP:NSONGS states that charting probably makes a song notable. There is not enough information about it to be notable at this point. – Chase ( talk) 21:46, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Comment It seems after research that there is some info for the background of the article. I will try to add them and let's see. Also, I forgot that the song is extensively being performed at The Monster Ball Tour. Hence it does pass WP:NSONGS. --Legolas (talk2me) 04:03, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Weak keep. Per WP:NSONGS, an independent article is "only appropriate when there is enough verifiable material to warrant a reasonably detailed article". I'm not terribly convinced that the sources provide in-depth coverage for the song, but I do believe the article now meets the "reasonably detailed" standard. Also, songs that have charted are "probably notable" (though not inherently notable). Taking all factors into account, I support keeping as a separate article.  Gongshow  Talk 05:41, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Comment – I would like to note that the information worth keeping—songwriting information, performance of song on tour, chart positions, and critical reception—could all be easily discussed in the main article, The Fame Monster. The "limited release" claim is unsourced, the music video claim has sources (Digital Spy, The Sun) that are not notable, and the track listing is plain false information since it hasn't even been released as a single. There is no reason why this shouldn't be merged. – Chase ( talk) 21:36, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete both per WP:SNOW. Both articles salted. – MuZemike 01:05, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Azulon Dolmayan

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This page has been A7'd twice in the past three days. Now it appears to claim he was in Harry Potter, although there's no entry for this individual on IMDB. Also a COI. Shadowjams ( talk) 21:08, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

See also

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The result was delete. Jayjg (talk) 02:56, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Local Ghost Haunts

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I can find no reliable sources to establish the notability of this web series. Sarilox ( talk) 20:52, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Delete Non-notable YouTube material. The article gives no independent sources at all. Searches produce the organisation's own web site, YouTube, MySpace, etc etc, but no evidence of significant independent coverage. Article was created as promotion by COI editor (he/she uses "we" in a talk page in reference to "Local Ghost Haunts"). JamesBWatson ( talk) 12:13, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was keep. JForget 02:58, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Dave Snowden

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Written like a resumé and unsourced, tagged since 2008/2007 Pevos ( talk) 20:41, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was Speedy Delete per G12 by Nyttend. MrKIA11 ( talk) 18:52, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Edwin B. Alderson, Jr.

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Despite everything that he has done in his life, I can't find significant coverage for this person. Joe Chill ( talk) 20:44, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Jayjg (talk) 02:56, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

List of Sharpie Permanent Markers

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Non-notable list Eagles 24/7 (C) 20:36, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was Withdrawn. I didn't notice that there was already an AfD and that notability was shown in it. I'll add the links from the previous AfD to the article. Joe Chill ( talk) 20:35, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Benat Achiary

AfDs for this article:
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All that I can find in Google is Youtube, Answers.com, music sites that are just profiles or trivial mentions of his such as CD Universe and Emusic, and lyrics. All that I can find in Google News is lots of Magnum Photos results which is a site for photography. This paragraph that I found in Google Books shows that he might be notable. Fails WP:BIO. Joe Chill ( talk) 20:31, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. Cirt ( talk) 17:04, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Ikonboard

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Seemingly non-notable software. No coverage in reliable independent sources that I can see. Some IPs are edit warring over it, so I assume a WP:PROD would be contested. Pcap ping 20:10, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Software-related deletion discussions. -- Pcap ping 20:11, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Most of this article is based on forum posts, but it does have a source that passes WP:RS, this interview on Sitepoint's web site. There are lot of google books hits, but many of those are because "ikonboard.cgi" appears in some url cited in the book. That fact and the interview suggest this software was widely used, so it may be of historical importance. This 2002 Que Publishing book explicitly says it's one of the most "famous and notable" together with WWWBoard, WebBBS, and YABB. I'm going to leave this open for now, hopefully more convincing secondary sources will be found. Pcap ping 23:33, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Comment: I'm a former developer of Ikonboard, later Ikonforums. It's true that this software was once widely used. Searches for Ikonboard will still generate hundreds of thousands of hits. Mostly running the popular (and more or less last) releases of Ikonboard, 3.1.2a and 3.1.3. It's now mostly just a cult hit. The original creator of Ikonboard later went on to found Invision Power Services, so the connection to a semi-notable person (the link to Matthew Mecham is still red though) does exist. Do reliable sources exist? Probably not. It's long since faded into obscurity on the web, so its unlikely new sources will come out. Whether or not this amounts to anything notable, I don't know. ^ demon [omg plz]  13:23, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • (Weak) Keep: As per ^demon I'm also a former developer of Ikonboard. I think that historically Ikonboard had notability and as the book link suggests it used to be a very popular software competing with other software which is still notable. That said these days it is nowhere near as notable as it once was, in my opinion ownership battles and mis-management affected development and lost many of its users. The article has some independent interviews to provide third-party sourcing, unfortunately some third-party sites such as swarf.net have ceased operating. The web archive is the only reliable method of recording official announcements as ownership of the ikonboard.com domain appears to have been lost. I doubt it will be possible to provide any reliable third-party sourcing of any future development. I would suggest the article remains semi-protected though it would appear much of the IP based editing/vandalism has been done by the current developer WP:COI (based on User_talk:68.213.153.149). Brollachan ( talk) 09:19, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep but should be refactored to focus on the software, not on the people behind it. Take out the "it is believed" cruft; let people make their own decisions from facts that can be cited. GreenReaper ( talk) 15:32, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. It's old, and not really used any more, but it definitely held a place of great relevance in the forum software community once upon a time. It was the only free bulletin board that offered a robust feature set comparable to that of paid solutions at the time. 205.215.210.10 ( talk) 17:45, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. JForget 02:55, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Joseph Peicott

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Autobiography of a young associate producer of some TV episodes for whom I can find no coverage whatsoever in reliable sources. (There was another Joseph Peicott, killed near Boston in 1993 in a traffic accident.) He does not appear to meet WP:CREATIVE or any other aspect of WP:BIO.  Glenfarclas  ( talk) 19:50, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 00:56, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Somali Irrigation

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The result was delete. JForget 00:42, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Can you call on an ipod touch

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Wikipedia is not a how-to guide I42 ( talk) 19:27, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was speedy redirect. — David Eppstein ( talk) 21:33, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Tigran Mansuryan

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Content merged into Tigran Mansurian; list of works was a complete duplicate anyway, so there was not much to merge. Classical geographer ( talk) 19:23, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. JForget 02:54, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

List of characters in AdventureQuest

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This is a list of characters for a video game of marginal notability, itself at AfD. Contested prod, with argument normal accepted type of article; better than individual articles of characters, hardly an "uncontroversial deletion". Pcap ping 19:18, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Makes me think of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fictional characters who can fly.-- Prodigy96 ( talk) 04:51, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was no consensus. Unresolved issue of whether the sources qualify as reliable. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 19:32, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Gamble Fish

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Contested prod. Unreferenced article about a manga with no assertion of notability. Fails WP:BK. Delete.  Blanchardb - Me• MyEars• MyMouth- timed 18:26, 17 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Commment A 15 vols-ongoing series published by Akita Shoten( [12]). No licensor outside Japan. Absent not only from Anime News Network database but also from the reported news, meaning not a single volume of this series made it into the Japanese manga charts. -- KrebMarkt 18:50, 18 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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  • Keep A notable magazine that's been around since 1969, features this, thus vast numbers of potential readers for the series exist. The series wouldn't last that long in a popular magazine without a significant number of fans. Manga related magazines don't often review manga found in their competition's magazines, nor are most manga reviewed anywhere at all, thus the suggested guidelines aren't relevant here, you having to ignore them and think for yourself, using common sense. Dream Focus 21:50, 27 January 2010 (UTC) reply
    • Notability can't be inherited, no volumes among the 15 released managed to make it into the manga charts and there no much hype around it in manga fan community with scanlation lagging behind with less than half of the chapters done. Call to good sense is based on the credits you give to the editor making the call. -- KrebMarkt 07:29, 29 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep For now, a discussion can easily be brought up on the talk page on japanese reference finding and such. - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 04:35, 28 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • I'm pushing for no consensus. This article notability issue is not resolved. Saying it has 15 volumes just won't make me vote keep, it just stopped me for voting delete. No evidence of notability were provided and only the existence of the series was asserted. If nothing change this one will be back to Afd for another that's certainty. If such thing occurs, i wish to avoid keep vote based it was keep in the previous Afd argument. Closing admin should read my position as vote to counterweight the Keep votes and aiming for no consensus result. -- KrebMarkt 07:46, 29 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • I'm not sure we can vote for no consensus, and I'm not sure it'll fly given only the nominator has actually said delete. There's circumstantial evidence of notability, enough so I'm unwilling to say delete, but nothing at hand that demonstrates it to the callous letter of The Law, so I'm also unwilling to say keep outright. I'm going with no vote here. — Quasirandom ( talk) 14:18, 29 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Week delete While 15 published volumes is an indication of notability, there has been no reliable third-party sources presented for this series. Without them, the article can be nothing more than a mere a plot summary. — Farix ( t |  c) 17:32, 30 January 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was keep. JForget 02:53, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Lost in the Meritocracy: The Undereducation of an Overachiever

Lost in the Meritocracy: The Undereducation of an Overachiever (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Almost no content iBen talk/ contribsIf you reply here, please place a talkback notification on my page. 18:56, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Keep Sure it's a stub, but a cursory Google search reveals a lot of information. The book is clearly notable. I have added content and references to the article so please take another look at it. -- MelanieN ( talk) 19:47, 31 January 2010 (UTC)MelanieN reply
Additional comment: I see that this was nominated for deletion, as having "almost no content", only half an hour after the article was created, and while the creator was clearly still working on it (e.g. creating an infobox). Surely we should give people a little time to establish content, before complaining about lack of content!-- MelanieN ( talk) 20:42, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
In response: Please use the {{ under construction}} tag.-- iBen talk/ contribsIf you reply here, please place a talkback notification on my page. 00:20, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Really? It says "In general, this template should not be used for new articles with little content."
Personally, I often start an article small, and add information as I research it. Wikipedia seems to accept this approach, see Wikipedia:stub. "A stub is an article containing only a few sentences of text which is too short to provide encyclopedic coverage of a subject, but not so short as to provide no useful information, and it should be capable of expansion." The fact that an article is a stub, or is very short, is not one of the reasons for deletion.
BTW I am not the author of the article, and I know nothing about this book except what I researched - never heard of it before today. I am just a person who likes to occasionally "rescue" an article from deletion, when I think the subject has merit.-- MelanieN ( talk) 00:48, 1 February 2010 (UTC)MelanieN reply
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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 17:03, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply

A14(M) motorway

A14(M) motorway (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Article is mostly nonsense not backed up by the sources given. It is true that the A14(M) is an unsigned motorway, however it is actually a short section a mile long, commonly considered to be part of the A1(M). It is only referred to on paper.

I attempted to redirect this to the A14 article but the user has just undone the action. The section about the planned upgrade is true, but given that it was only on the cards for 3 years and never really got far in the planning process, certainly doesn't give it notability. Jeni ( talk) 18:45, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Delete Sorry, but where have you backed up your point? Where are your official sources? Personally I have no knowledge of this designation and the road is not built to motorway standards. Where are your references from Hansard? By coincidence I have found official reference in the 1960s to a potential M45 running west from Ipswich - I guess it was intended to link to the M45 in Warwickshire but, with respect, that is another story and does not give credibility to this article. PeterEastern ( talk) 19:49, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • For the record, here is a reference from the highways agency to the A604(M) as well. [15]. We hear what you are saying Rstallard2, but these references are about past plans, there was also a plan for an M12, but that doesn't mean I insist that part of the current A12 is a motorway - a motorway is a legal classificiation and I have no evidence that the A14 has that designation today - do you? If you started your article, "The A14(M) was a proposed name for a section of the current A14" then that would be more sensible. PeterEastern ( talk) 20:36, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Fails notability. I do not recall a precedent of all "secret unsigned motorways" having some inherent notability. Edison ( talk) 21:23, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete A bit of OR from me: I am a not infrequent user of the A14 over many sections, but in particular the London end and the M6 to M11 area. The section in question here is definitely not built to motorway standard, and while there might have been (and probably were - I'm not casting doubts on Rstallard2's research) it never has been one, and would take considerable work to be of motorway standard. I think the relevant info should be in the A14 article (and also that the **** road should have been built as a motorway as well, but that's PoV...). BTW, if the info on Rstallard2's page is correct, I would congratulate him/her on her/his achievements (spelling...) both here and outside. Peridon ( talk) 21:29, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. We seem to be getting off track a bit, above. The question is not if the subject existed (as a road or a proposal, or whatever), but whether the subject is notable under our policies. In this case, I agree with Jeni - a well-constructed reference in the A14 article would be sufficient. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 15:56, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • I have now researched the available reliable evidence and sumarised it on the A14 talk page here. There is clearly evidence that a 1.2 mile section of the A14 has had and does have many amusingly contradictory designations but there is no evidence whatsoever that there is any current 'secret' motorway of any greater length. I stick with my earlier vote of Delete and will roll the content from the talk page into the A14 article in due course. PeterEastern ( talk) 21:37, 5 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nom. -- John ( talk) 07:23, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. JForget 02:52, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Gregory P. Joseph

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The subject of this article has requested its deletion at OTRS ticket#2010013110017466. I tend to support the deletion; he does not appear to meet WP:BIO from what I can see. Stifle ( talk) 17:35, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Comment Just a point of order; why would we start an AfD because the subject of a BLP requests it? If the information in the article were objectionable for reasons of accuracy or POV language etc., then the relevant text could be removed on that basis but off-wiki correspondence (that I cannot read for myself) should not be mentioned as part of the nomination here. To avoid doubt, the AfD should be based purely on the merits of the article, in this case the nominator's opinion that the article fails notability guidelines which I presume is true here (disregarding the "tend to support" qualification). Ash ( talk) 04:06, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
    • Comment. Re "why would we start an AfD because the subject of a BLP requests it?": we start an AfD whenever anyone requests it. I don't see any reason to deny this privilege to the subject of the article. — David Eppstein ( talk) 19:58, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was THIS IS A TITLE. JForget 02:49, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Think Tank Forums

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Seemingly non-notable software. Very marginal coverage in reliable independent sources. Pcap ping 17:19, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was withdrawn by nominator. ... discospinster talk 03:02, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply

List of documentaries

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This page should either be renamed Lists of documentary films or just deleted, it seems to me. Or is this valid as a redirect? The only content are three links that could easily be added to the See also section of Documentary film. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 16:58, 31 January 2010 (UTC) WITHDRAWN per below reply

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The result was delete. JForget 02:48, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

EbilGames

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If the company is tethering on the verge of non-notability (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Artix Entertainment (4th nomination)), then their site that holds their more obscure games surely is even less notable. Pcap ping 16:51, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. Scott Mac (Doc) 21:54, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply

AdventureQuest

AfDs for this article:
AdventureQuest (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Only reviewed on seemingly obscure sites. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Artix Entertainment (4th nomination). Pcap ping 16:44, 31 January 2010 (UTC) (I think the sources found below are adequate. 01:15, 3 February 2010 (UTC)) reply

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The result was delete. JForget 02:46, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Pune Gliding Center

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Contested PROD. Seems to be a non-notable field, sources mention it tangentially; a few famous people appear to have visited it, but I'm not sure that confers notability in the sense that we require it. Do we have any relevant guidelines here? Anyway, opening to the community for insight and opinions. Glass Cobra 16:16, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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-->
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The result was delete. JForget 02:44, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Spank jazz

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Contested Prod. Article is an unreferenced assertion of a genre founded on one track on an album by a defunct band. There is no Wikipedia page for the band or the album. No genre references on AllAboutJazz; only reference on Allmusic is the album track title itself. AllyD ( talk) 15:59, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Note: Notified WikiProject Jazz. AllyD ( talk) 16:13, 31 January 2010 (UTC)# reply

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The result was delete. JForget 02:42, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Khalid Usman

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Two-line biographical article about a chartered accountant and former town councillor. Sporadically mentioned and quoted in local media, but nothing approaching siginficant coverage. Subject fails WP:POLITICIAN. --Rrburke ekrubrR 15:54, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. JForget 02:42, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Plain Talk Volume 1-Everything you ever and never wanted to know about Racism and Stereotypes

Plain Talk Volume 1-Everything you ever and never wanted to know about Racism and Stereotypes (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Flunks WP:N and WP:SPAM; no reliable sources; self-promotional. (While self-promotion is not a reason for deletion, the article's other failings are.) THF ( talk) 15:11, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Delete per nom. Stonemason89 ( talk) 16:26, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. Of the four "References" currently in the article, three do not discuss the book at all, and the fourth was written by the author of the book. No clear claim is ever presented for the notability of the book in the article: no awards, no reviews, no critical reception. — C.Fred ( talk) 16:41, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete No reliable sources for the content or importance of this book, and the article appears to be a mix of self-promotion of the book and promotion of the book's author's personal theories. — Gavia immer ( talk) 17:07, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete gsearch for strings "plain talk" "corey washington" gave no RS hits. self published through xlibris, which has no relevant acceptance criteria. a less spammy article may be recreated in the future if it actually does become notable per WP. Mercurywoodrose ( talk) 18:10, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

The fact that Stonemason nominated me for deletion should be wiped out because I changed some of his edits on the All-White Basketball league. I think that the deletion should be held off for 6 months. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Plaintalk2010 ( talk • contribs) 03:26, 1 February 2010 (UTC) What spam are you talking about. At the very least some promotional items have been removed personally. I just think it's shady that the guy that I'm involved in an edit war with is the guy who nominates this page for deletion. Now that's a conflict of interest. The deletion process is too subjective. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Plaintalk2010 ( talk • contribs) 03:30, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply

I did not nominate this page for deletion, User: THF did. Get your facts straight. Stonemason89 ( talk) 03:40, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Even if the closing admin discounted Stonemason's opinion, there are five other editors with good rationales to delete the article. That's enough to show a consensus that the article should be deleted. If you want to build a case for keeping the article, focus on the identified flaws in the article and show where it has received significant coverage in reliable sources.

— C.Fred ( talk) 14:57, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply

if the only problem with this article was that it was overly promotional, i would have nominated for keep and probably worked to fix it (i do a lot of small fixups for book/author articles). if the article does stay, i will comment on the "spamminess" on the article talk page. its not relevant here as its not grounds for deletion. it was a throwaway comment essentially in support of its potential future notability. sorry if i sounded too flippant. Mercurywoodrose ( talk) 04:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was speedy keep. nominator also changed to keep JForget 00:36, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Ancient Arabic units of measurement

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A search for reference, found little to no support for any of the content of this article. Yes there Ancient Arabic units of measurement, but for most of the units mentioned here no references are found. See example reference in article, what is found has no support for the measurements as documented. The farsakh is the only thing I find close and even that does not match references. Removal on non-referenced content per WP:V would result in a article that no longer meets the expectations of the title. Prod was removed so bringing to AfD Jeepday ( talk) 15:05, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Delete Although the topic is notable for its own article, an unsourced article is dubious, and keeping a demonstrably inaccurate article makes an entire encyclopedia dubious. Looking through the history of this one, it was created back in the "It's none of your damn business where I got this from" days of Wikipedia, and had no source at all until the nominator (Jeepday) located one: ( [17]) would be the heart of a good article as to some of the measurements, and if someone wants to attempt a rescue, in which case, move it to userspace until it can be something that doesn't say 2+2=7. The Encyclopedia Britannica used to have an article called "Measures and Weights" that converted units of measure into English and metric equivalents. Rather than a clean up, this one needs to be replaced with something brand new from the rescue factory. Mandsford ( talk) 17:49, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
Could you please substantiate "demonstrably incorrect". So far as I can see the highly reliable reference that I have given below covers everything in the article. Hans Adler 18:27, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. Deletion of an article is generally interpreted as implying that re-creation of the article is strongly discouraged. That would certainly not be appropriate here. As to the sourcing, we need to take into account the systemic bias against cultures using a non-Latin script. If we search for one specific transcription of a unit, then we are only going to find those occurrences that use exactly the same transcription. By simply searching for "arabic units" in Google Books I found the Encyclopaedia of scientific units, weights, and measures, which appeared with Springer and appears to cover everything that is in the article in a single table. Hans Adler 20:10, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
That would be a reliable source (François Cardarelli, ed. Encyclopaedia of Scientific Units, Weights, and Measures: Their SI Equivalences and Origins (Springer 2003) p77-78) at least for units of length, area, and volume. If someone is willing to replace the existing content with something verifiable-- even to the extent of blanking the page and replacing it with the two links to Google books-- then I'd support a keep. Otherwise, we should put a note up saying "This is totally unreliable and should not be taken seriously by someone consulting an encyclopedia". The first requirement of reference information, even greater than that it should be verifiable, is that it be correct. Mandsford ( talk) 23:02, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
So far as I can tell nothing needs to be replaced. The present content is backed up by the new reference. Hans Adler 18:27, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete unless someone rewrites it before this AFD closes: incorrect information does not belong in Wikipedia, and the only ways to get rid of an entirely incorrect article are complete rewrites and deletion. We sometimes delete articles for reasons irrelevant to notability (especially through speedy deletion, but not exclusively), so it's not at all uncommon to encounter a situation when there's no problem with recreating an article that was (altogether properly) deleted. I don't see how keeping a mangled article will help the encyclopedia more than deletion will. Nyttend ( talk) 03:51, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • 'Vote changed, see below Why on earth delete if the problem is a lack of referrences? -- Egil ( talk) 07:00, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Besides that Wikipedia:Verifiability allows for the removal of questionable unreferenced content. Lack of references is one of the symptoms, the problem is that the content of the article cannot be validated; it is extremely likely that none of it is accurate, and the entire article content is fabricated. This article was reviewed by Wikipedia:Unreferenced articles prior to being posted for AfD and no references supporting the article content could be found. The question in this AfD is should the article be stripped to a sinlgle line about farsakh, or should it be completely deleted. JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 11:57, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Point taken. As a flashback, I remember this article was created by splitting up a far too big article on historical weights and measures, and I'm sure some of the original content was quite questionable. If you have researched this and not being able to verify, then this article has no value. I will thus change my vote to Delete. Egil ( talk) 09:08, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Did any of you actually compare the reference with the current content of the article? What does the article say that doesn't follow immediately from the new reference? Hans Adler 18:27, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Comment. {{trout}} I don't understand why people here are voting for deletion of an article based on speculations that the content may be incorrect, after someone has found a Springer book that backs up the content. Hans Adler 01:25, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Nom voting Keep, thanks to the work of User:Hans Adler who found and added references supporting the article content. When the reference was first posted here it did not open as readable for me, but the reference on the article clearly goes to a book supporitin the content as written (still room to improve as always). My Orginal research was based on the words for the units, which came up mostly empty Hans focused on the subject a search term and found a great reference. JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 12:01, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
    • Thanks, it seems you originally missed my explanation concerning different transcriptions. I think it's important to keep this issue in mind in order to avoid systemic bias against cultures that use a non-latin script. As it happens, my work didn't consist in more than entering "Arabic units of measurement" in Google books and looking at the first hit. The trout is on the barbecue. Who wants some? Hans Adler 12:10, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Speedy close in that nominator has withdrawn nomination. Changing vote to Keep and praising Hans Adler as well. Mandsford ( talk) 21:48, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. JForget 02:40, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

David Soutter

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Non-notable official of political parties who has not stood for elected office himself. No reliable sources found and indeed there appear only to be passing mentions in a tiny number of newspaper articles. Has been tagged for notability for 18 months or so. Sam Blacketer ( talk) 14:51, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. JForget 02:40, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Internet car buying in the UK

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Contested PROD (by blanking). PROD concern "No indication of how this might meet notability guidelines. Lacks citations to significant coverage in reliable sources" blue 520 14:51, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

*Delete and do not wish to see Internet car buying in India, Interent car buying in Chile or Internet car buying in the Sahara Desert any time soon. From an encyclopedia's position, we just don't need articles of this nature.--TrustMe THROW! 20:18, 31 January 2010 (UTC)) User has been blocked, refer to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Trusted_Throw for details. Ottawa4ever ( talk) 08:01, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Seconded. Peridon ( talk) 21:30, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
I still second what he said. Peridon ( talk) 17:53, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
::Thirded.-- Prodigy96 ( talk) 00:36, 1 February 2010 (UTC)) User has been blocked, refer to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Trusted_Throw for details. Ottawa4ever ( talk) 08:01, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was Keep ( WP:NACD) CTJF83 chat 19:45, 6 February 2010 (UTC) reply

William Croft (linguist)

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Non-notable BLP of a linguist. The only independent source isn't even about HIM, it's about Greenberg, and only mentions Croft as it relates to Greenberg. That doesn't satisfy the "non-trivial" aspect of our notability policy. The other source is simply a university profile. Unit Anode 14:32, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Then you are granting that the person is notable? - Wikidemon ( talk) 18:47, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
No. Until reliable, secondary sources are found to source the claims, I don't grant that he's notable. Unit Anode 13:54, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. JForget 02:39, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Leroy Ah Ben

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All that I can find in Google is unreliable sites, a profile, and a trivial mention in The Walkley Magazine. All that I can find in Google News is a few news articles by him. I found zero sources in Google Books. Fails WP:BIO. Joe Chill ( talk) 13:33, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Wow. A deletionist. I love you guys. All I can offer is that he's on TV in Australia every night on an evening news program on SBS which broadcasts nationally, which of course doesn't leave a textual trace on the web because he's a broadcast TV reporter. Why not enjoy yourself and go ahead and delete it. Timbomb ( talk) 23:09, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. JForget 02:38, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Jim Duriga

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All that I can find in Google is 123people.com, monkees101.com which only has one sentence, sites to buy his books, profiles, unreliable sites, and Open Library. All that I can find in Google News is three trivial mentions in a local newspaper. All that I can find in Google Books is books by him. Fails WP:CREATIVE. Joe Chill ( talk) 13:02, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Consensus seems to be that there because the only sources that exist that cover this man are of his crimes, the article fails WP:BLP1E. NW ( Talk) 12:10, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Edwin Curry

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I know the definition of "BLP1E" is disputed, but I believe this article in it's current form does fall under the term. The article covers nothing on this man other than one part of his life, how he got jailed for being a pedophile. — Coffee // have a cup // ark // 10:41, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

The sentence was controversial and other examples in the category similarly focus on this part of someone's life. -- can dle • wicke 10:50, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Per WP:ONEEVENT. It seems to me the only notability (if that should even be the right word here to use) is for this one event. Im perplexed as to how even a merge is appropriate and where this could go as a redirect right now. Therefore I think deletion (In the pages current form) is appropriate as outlined above. Ottawa4ever ( talk) 11:19, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • I am curious (as an aside and not to take away from this) but is the article at Viggo Kristiansen from the same category notable? It seems he has done less and might be one example of a major BLP issue through similar focus on his crimes (with a lot less sources). -- can dle • wicke 12:53, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Keep-The article is sourced and is indeed notable in that the guy was found guilty of 189 counts of indecent assault and sentenced to only 4 years. For WP:ONEEVENT, are you referring to the sentencing, or to the period during which he was assaulting these children?...there appears to be some lexical ambiguity in your statement. The article does need a bit work, but as it stands, it need not be nominated for deletion. Smallman12q ( talk) 13:14, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Also, quoting BLP1E, it says "If the event is significant and the individual's role within it is substantial, a separate biography may be appropriate. Individuals notable for well-documented events, such as John Hinckley, Jr., fit into this category." It seems (to me at this point) that this person's role is indeed substantial and since the names of those he abused are unknown he is very much the centre of this case. I had no idea who the Hinckley, Jr. guy was before I clicked but if the best example of this type of biography is someone who nearly killed someone but failed, well... I don't see how this serial abuser over three decades is any worse less suited for an article? -- can dle • wicke 13:55, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
(edit conflict) To me I see this as one event that the trial and the period are one in the same, and as such I would belive the article follows to cover the person only in the context of this single event (But i agree this can have ambuigity to it). That is just my opinion of this paticular article. However I do concede under WP:PERP that the person narrowly does satisfy point 3 (But not 1 and 2 in my opinion at least). However thats if it has persistant coverage to be historical which you could probably argue this will. Maybe retitling the article and re writing portions to reflect the trial and not the individual would be more appropriate rather than deletion and in time if there is continual coverage the article could reflect the individual? Ottawa4ever ( talk) 14:04, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
"Notable because he was sentenced to 189 counts of assault" sounds like an arbitrary number to me. rʨanaɢ  talk/ contribs 03:21, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Strong keep - clearly, obviously notable individual (unfortunately), which passes WP:GNG (several sources), WP:BLP1E (not a single event; sources are all from his recent conviction, but the crimes are not recent and are very many; sources referring to him and his personality also are cited) and WP:PERP (notable crimes). The crimes were notable enough for the sentence to have been further discussed. -- Cyclopia talk 15:55, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep - There are several reliable sources in the article itself, and the man appears to be a serial child sex offender. The media coverage may be a one off (i.e. at the trial) but the actual offense and claim to notability isn't a BLP1E situation. I guess that's what you meant in your nomination regarding the disputed definition of BLP1E. Regards, --— Cyclonenim |  Chat  17:48, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per WP:BLP1E and WP:PERPETRATOR. Horrible crimes over many years, and they took place many years ago. Yet the few references for the crime or the criminal are only from a 5 day period. The crimes inspired no societal changes, no new laws, no books or films. Apparently the news media which gave it little coverage did not see it as significant as some Wikipedians do. The crimes may have taken place over a long period, but none was apparently considered notable enough for any coverage until the trial and conviction. Neither the perpetrator nor the victims apparently had any notability outside the crimes. Edison ( talk) 21:40, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Edison said it best. No need to keep this page.-- Prodigy96 ( talk) 00:21, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep The recent findings by Candlewicke change everything. They also make a very good argument. Since the trial would have been around the time this became public how could sources exist from when it was unknown?-- Prodigy96 ( talk) 00:32, 1 February 2010 (UTC)) User has been blocked, refer to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Trusted_Throw for details. reply
It could be argued that "unknown crimes until the trial" equals "one incident." The additions by Candlewicke are preliminary parts of the same trial plus apparently someone beating up the perpetrator after his misdeeds came to be known. The early hearings of a trial are part of the same trial, hence the same event. Getting beaten up is generally not the stuff of which encyclopedias are made. Edison ( talk) 01:24, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Just as a side note I dont think those articles have a problem with BLPE or PERP (Just my thought here though), and are quite different from this article and its concerns that have been raised as has been discussed above. Discussion should also be kept to this article alone and wether it should or shouldnt be deleted. Ottawa4ever ( talk) 18:28, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Yes, there are differeces...--TrustMe THROW! 22:49, 1 February 2010 (UTC) User has been blocked, refer to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Trusted_Throw for details. reply
  • Delete I think WP:BLP1E still applies. The event, in this case, can be said to be Curry's trial, which appears to be of only immediate interest (I can't imagine anyone taking an interest in this 15 years from now). In response to Wnt above, this guy does not at all compare to Eric Harris/Dylan Klebold and John Wayne Gacy. Harris and Klebold were involved in an event that's unquestionably significant on its own (BLP1E says bios are appropriate for "Individuals notable for well-documented events"). Gacy has had whole books written about him, and attracted far more attention than this guy. rʨanaɢ  talk/ contribs 03:18, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply
*Keep the events are notable and have been subject to mass media coverage.-- LittleGordon 20:08, 2 February 2010 (UTC)) User has been blocked, refer to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Trusted_Throw for details. reply
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The result was keep. JForget 02:37, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Chako Abeno

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Delete. This is a non-notable and unsourced WP:BLP article. I searched Google News Archive and found 1 relevant match, which was a passing one-liner mention from activeanime.com. That's it. JBsupreme ( talk) 08:16, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • As creator or co-creator of a more than one notable manga, she would on the face of it pass WP:CREATIVE. Since this information was already present when this AfD was proposed, wouldn't attempting to find sources per WP:BEFORE been the better route? But in any case, beyond that additional sourcing has been added, making this a keep. — Quasirandom ( talk) 16:09, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep per Eastman, Quasirandom, and http://www.google.com/cse?cx=009114923999563836576%3A1eorkzz2gp4&q=%22Chako+Abeno%22 -- Gwern (contribs) 17:10 31 January 2010 (GMT)
    • Gwern, what is this custom search that you are citing? It says "Wikipedia RSs for manga and anime" but I am seeing tons of blogs? I am intrigued. JBsupreme ( talk) 17:46, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
      • Welcome to 21st century, where evil vetted RS critics not only review manga on their Reliable Source manga/anime/comics websites but also from their very own personal blog. Saying that those critics are only experts when they write reviews in their RS websites and cease to be experts when they write reviews in their blog would be utter bullshit. From Wikipedia editors point of view this is hellish to use because the dogmatic blog = not RS restriction. -- KrebMarkt 18:37, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
      • What Kreb said. With a few exceptions, all the blogs being pulled up are either on the Wikiproject's list of online RSs, were cited in the recent discussions about a large network of allied reviewers who publish in said RSs, or are just showing up in the results because they haven't been filtered out. (The CSE has a large whitelist, and blacklist, but everything else is on a 'greylist' - it shows up if it scores high enough anyway.) If any of them are particularly bad and should never show up for any query, feel free to point them out to me. I cleaned up several of the Chako Abeno pages, but I didn't clean past page ~5 of results. -- Gwern (contribs) 18:42 1 February 2010 (GMT)
  • Keep Per above, and references from all the notable manga she has worked on. - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 17:42, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. Reliable sources more than sufficient to pass the relevant notability bar, as demonstrated by Eastmain and Quasirandom. The existence of systemic bias is not an argument for deletion. Rebecca ( talk) 15:57, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep The body of work makes them notable. Dream Focus 20:16, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep: There are reliable sources. - 23:23, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
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The result was delete. JForget 02:35, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Konstantin Popov

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There does not appear to be enough substance here to support a biographical article. He made the news only within the last few days because of his killing. However, there has been been no biographical coverage of this individual prior to this single event, and he was even described as a " little-known 47-year-old journalist who specialized in writing about economics" in one of the recent news articles about his death. Wikipedia:Notability says "it takes more than just a short burst of news reports about a single event or topic to constitute sufficient evidence of notability." Dominic· t 08:02, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. JForget 02:34, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Cornish American

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Essentially this is a WP:FRINGE/ WP:FORK for Cornish nationalism (created by somebody of that political persuasion). No evidence that such an article is WP:Notable and its contents consists of WP:SYNTH and WP:OR. Nor is there any evidence that people from one county in England have especially high numbers of people in America, as to be worthy of an article. No other Encyclopedia in the world includes such an article. Delete as FORK political activism on the part of Joowww. - Yorkshirian ( talk) 07:53, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Keep. The Cornish identity is stronger than that of, say, East Sussex. Cornwall was once a Celtic nation with its own language, and "Cornish" can be an ethnic or linguistic group rather than just a county of origin. Emigrants from Cornwall to the United States or Australia would often have been miners in Cornwall seeking work as miners, and likely in some cases to settle in mining communities with other Cornish miners. The fact that Cornish nationalism exists, while Yorkshire nationalism does not, suggests that some Americans of Cornish descent may identify as Cornish-American rather than as English-American or British-American. — Eastmain ( talk • contribs) 08:51, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
There are no native speakers of Cornish in Cornwall, let alone in the United States; the last native speaker died in the 1700s, before the United States existed. Also Cornwall was never a country but rather Dumnonnia was (as was Northumbria, Gwynedd, Clwyd and Gwent). But this is all besides the point "Cornish American" is itself WP:OR and WP:SYNTH as a concept, there is no presentation of evidence that "Cornish American" is a notable concept to be included in an Encyclopedia. There is no evidence that any of the examples listed in the article regarded themselves as "Cornish Americans". The concept is as OR as Gwynedd American or Northumbrian American. - Yorkshirian ( talk) 09:09, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
I disagree with the suggestion that "Cornish American" is WP:OR. There is objective evidence for the use of the term, such as the Cornish American Heritage Society at http://www.cousinjack.org/ , and other Cornish groups in the United States at http://www.pacornish.org/ http://milwaukeecornish.homestead.com/ http://www.califcornishcousins.org/ The Library of Congress catalog http://catalog.loc.gov has a listing for Cornish American, a serial in Grand Rapids, Mich. first published in 1982. As for linguistic differences between Cornish people and those in other parts of England, see West Country dialects. For more on Cornwall as an independent country, see Kingdom of Cornwall and Dumnonia. - Eastmain ( talk • contribs) 10:32, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
There's no doubt that some people in the US highlight their Cornish roots, and that some of them have set up websites about it, but it's much less clear whether the phrase "Cornish American" is commonly used, and whether the concept of a "Cornish American" is at all notable. And, for info, you can buy t-shirts that say "Yorkshire American". -- Nickhh ( talk) 01:35, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
You can also buy t-shirts that say "I shot JR". And your point is? -- Joowwww ( talk) 13:32, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Er, humour? Although there was a small serious point underneath it, ie that the verifiable existence of a phrase or term does not of itself mean it needs a Wikipedia page. -- Nickhh ( talk) 13:43, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
This is not about counties or ancient kingdoms, it is about the modern-day ethnicity. -- Joowwww ( talk) 21:21, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
Presumably the modern concept of Cornish ethnicity though is derived very much from the place, and its history, otherwise it's wholly random and invented? And that's the point that people are disputing - what makes Cornwall as an area of England and the UK, and its people, any different from other historical and contemporary areas in the country, all of which had, and to varying degrees still have, a distinctive regional identity? I'm not saying that's not the case, but it needs to be demonstrated substantively, and with reference to proper sources. In this case, we need reliable and serious evidence of the concept of "Cornish Americans". -- Nickhh ( talk) 01:35, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
The Cornish were considered to be a separate people from the English for centuries, until around the 17th century. There are people in Cornwall who still do. Yorkshirians weren't and don't. That's the difference. -- Joowwww ( talk) 13:31, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
OK, as I said then. -- Nickhh ( talk) 13:43, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Comment: I think the evidence provided (although not other WP pages per se - the Kingdom of Cornwall page in particular looks pretty woefully sourced for a lot of its assertions) would suggest that there is more leeway for the concept of "Cornish American" than there is for "Mercian American", or "Berkshire American", but at the same time it is not an officially accepted ethnic definition in the US like say "Irish American" is - Americans with family origins in Cornwall would be "English Americans" in US census categories, whether they liked it or not. Equally some of the sites pointed to above are of course self-published, and while they provide evidence of the existence of Cornish culture and self-identifying Cornish people in the US - and possibly the occasional use of the actual term "Cornish American" - they do not provide evidence of its notability. Are there any serious, reliable sources that use the term "Cornish American" and apply it to individuals? Beyond that, even if the page is kept, as noted on the article talk page, the page has problems. For example there's a real issue in respect of some of the people who have been listed as Cornish Americans, when there's zero evidence that they or anyone else describe themselves as such.-- Nickhh ( talk) 19:15, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. JForget 02:32, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Botev Vratsa Forever

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Fan club with 60 members and no evidence of notability. — RHaworth ( talk · contribs) 06:35, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. JForget 02:31, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Viscendo

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Made-up word, obvious vehicle for WP:ARTSPAM of the company "Viscendo LLC," founded by Jody Basye. Borders (closely) on db-g11 as blatant advertising. User:Jodybasye contested my PROD.  Glenfarclas  ( talk) 06:13, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Delete. I agree with nominator, it is obvious spam for the company. Also probable conflict of interest given article creator's name is same as company domain registrant. Original speedy deletion tagging was correct in my opinion. - 84user ( talk) 11:35, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. JForget 02:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

DragonFable

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I deprodded this video game after I found one relatively short review on about.com I felt it deserves a discussion. (Besides, I see it has been brought to AfD before, so a prod was procedurally invalid.) Pcap ping 06:06, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Comment: http://www.netzwelt.de/download/7030-dragonfable.html its german and a description + small review of the game, can it be used as reference? GBK2010 ( talk) 02:42, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
I am not familiar with this particular online magazine so I can't judge how reliable it is. But since it offers the game as a download I think it might have interest in promoting the game; that is, I doubt if it is an independent source, which we need to establish notability. Reyk YO! 02:55, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
I am familar with netzwelt. It's a fairly high profile German site (top 100 or so, see their "press" page, Alexa ranking, etc.) The reviews on their download pages are written by their staff, not copies of manufacturer's description; they have a dozen writers, see their impressum. I'm not very fond of reviews on download pages because they are otften quick, "filler" takes, although the netzwelt ones are better compared to others of this kind ( Softonic, CNET download pages, etc.) But, there's far more coverage in the mmohut.com review I linked above. The netzwelt coverage is rather uninformative in comparison. Also, for a video game, I expect more depth of coverage than, say, for a Zip archiver or chat client, and the netzwelt page has just about the same for all of these; it's not a game focused site. Perhaps you can tell me why the mmohut.com review is unreliable in exchange. :-) Pcap ping 03:34, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Don't speedy delete — I've checked the deleted revisions, and this is radically different. While this is a bit of a game guide, it's far more encyclopedic than the deleted versions, which are almost exclusively game guides. Nyttend ( talk) 03:59, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete or Redirect to Artix Entertainment, if it is kept. About.com - Andre Haas, again, etc? :> This is fairly feeble coverage, but enough for verifiability. MMOHut - I'm not happy about the reliability of this as a source, as I've detailed at WP:VG/RS. Netzwelt - Ran this through Babel. Reads like an advert, they have nothing critical to say, and the site is ran in association with AOL Advertising. Marasmusine ( talk) 13:15, 6 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. JForget 02:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Pink Crust (Avril Lavigne album)

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Article is of unverifiable nature, based on unreliable conjecture citing no sources, though a Google search results in unreliable sources using the possible-hoax name "Pink Crust". Possible disparagement toward artist. Correct, updated, and verified information on the fourth studio album can be found on the Avril Lavigne article. Kerαunoςcopia◁ galaxies 06:02, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Delete. Looks like a hoax, at least according to The Boston Phoenix: "several news sources, among them Billboard, have reported that [Avril's] upcoming album will be titled Pink Crust. If you're thinking that that's just a little too gross to be true. . .you're correct. As near as I can figure, that title was posted as a joke on an Avril Lavigne fan site, and credulous publications reported it as fact." If it's not a hoax, it still violates WP:CRYSTAL, as no reliable sources confirm a track listing or release date.  Gongshow  Talk 06:56, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 17:03, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply

MechQuest

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Seemingly non-notable video game. Arguably its notability should be discussed here, rather than edit warred over the redirect to the company, which itself may be deleted soon. Pcap ping 05:48, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. JForget 02:19, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

609th Air Communications Squadron

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This squadron, performing a ground combat service support function, is not notable. Any relevant material can either be placed at Shaw Air Force Base or 20th Fighter Wing. This nomination is in line with previously determined community consensus over separate non-combat ground forces' companies (a unit at the same level). See eg Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/101st Chemical Company (United States) and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/722nd Ordnance Company (United States). Buckshot06 (talk) 05:12, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. JForget 02:19, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

1625 Sheridan Road (Wilmette)

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Unremarkable building, no evidence of notability for design or history. Acroterion (talk) 03:38, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Also 1616 Sheridan Road (Wilmette) and 1500 Sheridan Road (Wilmette). Same issues. Acroterion (talk) 20:07, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
Welcome to Wikipedia, SecretName101. This is your first article, and I'm presuming that you've written about something that you're familiar with. However, I hope that you will agree that it wouldn't be practical if we had an article about every five story building in the world. We have to set limits on articles, based upon whether something is notable enough that it gets attention outside the local area. As the saying goes, "Everything gets published on Wikipedia, but not everything gets to stay on Wikipedia." Mandsford ( talk) 17:55, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Does the book you're referencing give any indication of something unique about this building (and 1500?). If so, you should include that in the article. What you want to do is to explain why this building is worthy of inclusion in an encyclopedia (and personal liking isn't enough: it must be historic or have a historic event associated with it, or be notable on the basis of its design). Who was the architect? Acroterion (talk) 03:47, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. JForget 02:18, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Kae's File Manager

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Zaroo independent sources for this, hic. Pcap ping 03:31, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. JForget 02:16, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Atmospheric rock

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Improperly "citing" a single album as evidence for a genre's existence does not a legitimate genre make. C1k3 ( talk) 02:59, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Neutral. I filled in the stub from a redlink, if i remember right. The example is just an example, of course, but Google reveals a fair amount of usage of the term as a genre by bands, review sites, online stores, etc. This article, Post Rock 101, seems to recognize it as a subgenre alongside art rock and math rock. I'm not sure exactly how much sourcing would meet the threshold of notability, but if enough can't be found, all the articles linking to this one need to be adjusted too, at least. — Piet Delport ( talk) 2010-01-31 05:35
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The result was merge and redirect. Jayjg (talk) 00:42, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Red and Blue (EP)

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This is an EP by Stefani Germanotta, recorded a couple years before she found fame (pardon the pun) as Lady Gaga. The EP was apparently not released—the article claims a "handful of copies were sold at New York area shows"—and the only mentions I'm seeing for this are in fansites/forums, torrent links, etc. I can not find significant coverage in independent reliable sources; does not appear to meet WP:GNG or WP:NALBUMS.  Gongshow  Talk 02:35, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

note: I merged info already feeling that it is relevant no matter how this discussion goes. If no kept, I believe the redirect is appropriate. J04n( talk page) 21:11, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was keep. JForget 02:16, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Smuxi

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This article has been tagged as needing sources for a long time and none have been presented even after extensive editing. Miami33139 ( talk) 02:34, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Software-related deletion discussions. -- Pcap ping 04:27, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • [25] and [26] have been in the article since the day after you requested sources ("since last November" is a long time?), and are independent, reliable, and substantive. What are your objections to them? — Korath ( Talk) 04:41, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
    • We have to be grateful he didn't prod it, as he did with klibc. Pcap ping 17:44, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
    • The edit summary that replaced the notability tag said "(Don't agree tuxradar and toms hardware convey notability. Both of those are giant indiscriminate lists containing mass amounts of products. It doesn't equate significant coverage)" Miami33139 ( talk) 00:20, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
      • I saw Crossmr's edit summary, yes. I was hoping you had objections of your own, because his doesn't hold water. The Tuxradar source reviews only one IRC client, and the only other product reviewed that's even close is Gwibber, a microblogging client. Tom's Hardware reviews seven IRC clients, of 30 products total. Literally hundreds of IRC clients have been released; reviewing one, or seven, can't reasonably be considered indiscriminate. As for the complaint that they review "mass amounts of products", if anything, it adds to the sources' reliability. Keep. — Korath ( Talk) 07:58, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, even if somewhat weakly. Covered in Tom's Hardware, at more length in TuxRadar, which is an online publication owned by Linux Format, and also in the print issue of that magazine [27]. All of these sources were present in the article at the time of nomination. Granted, being reviewed in an article on more obscure apps (TuxRadar) is surely not an indication of popularity or importance. I find it ironic, but not surprising however, that the hardcore deletionists when presented with arguments that something is important, immediately argue that notability is all that matters, and when presented with significant coverage in WP:RS, they argue that the topic is simply not notable (as in popular or important) because it is discussed at some length among other not well-known topics. Besides, if the round-up in Tom's Hardware was as indiscriminate as some say, we'd be able to reference any IRC software on this site from it, including the whole Comparison of IRC clients. Clearly that's not the case given the number of IRC clients that got deleted. Pcap ping 03:10, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Per above, coverage in Tom's Hardware and elsewhere sufficient to prove notability. Dream Focus 13:33, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. JForget 02:15, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Enhanced Programmable ircII Client

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Delete. Well, at least I've heard of this one, it has that going for it. I searched Google News Archives and Google Books, with no success at finding substantial coverage from reliable third party publications. I tried queries "Enhanced Programmable ircII Client" and "EPIC +IRC". JBsupreme ( talk) 02:09, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was Keep Passes WP:Prof ( WP:NACD) CTJF83 chat 20:00, 6 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Linda Harasim

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Typical academic CV - written articles, edited and contributed to multi-author books. Doesn'tseem particularly notable. Scott Mac (Doc) 01:12, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

I'm afraid I don't understand a word of what you've said? What's a GS cite? Yes I researched this. Please indicate why she's notable?-- Scott Mac (Doc) 09:05, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
It is not part of an editor's duties to explain Wikipedia's WP:Prof policy to people who can read it for themselves. Advice often given to newcomers to a topic is to lurk around for a while to learn the conventions that prevail before jumping in as an editor. Xxanthippe ( talk) 00:25, 1 February 2010 (UTC). reply
Notability guidelines are not policies there are guidelines. They tell people "what usually tends to happen on AfD", they in no sense disctate what ought to happen. There is no need for anyone here to pay the blindest bit of attention to them. I don't. I use my own judgement.-- Scott Mac (Doc) 09:49, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
She means the citation counts reported by a Google scholar search. These numbers are a (not very good, but easily measured) way of quantifying the impact a scholar's work has had on other scholars, and in this case they are well above what has usually been considered here to be at the passing level for WP:PROF #1. For instance, over 1200 other published academic works have cited her book Learning networks: A field guide to teaching and learning online in some way or another. No doubt many of these citations are trivial passing mentions but very likely not all of them are. — David Eppstein ( talk) 22:18, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
The article doesn not indicate notability. I'm not sure you've indicated anything remarkable here. Most accademics in this field get called as witnesses, I imagine. None of these article give her more than a passing mention, in the same way they'd mention a policy inspector who investigated a case.-- Scott Mac (Doc) 09:08, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
Is this some strange new meaning of the word "none" with which I'm unfamiliar? My comment above called out two specific articles for which the coverage of her is clearly more than a passing mention. As for "the article does not indicate notability": we are not supposed to say things like "She fulfils the Wikipedia standards for academic notability by virtue of her high citation count and h-index." within the text of an article; see WP:SELFREF. There is a paragraph discussing her research accomplishments; you are expected to deduce for yourself that these are the things she is considered notable for. — David Eppstein ( talk) 22:15, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
Two of those works she edited, the other she co-authored - these are very typical things for an accademic to do. Even most junior lecturers do this type of thing. There is nothing remarkable here.-- Scott Mac (Doc) 14:09, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
You could probably make a good argument for deleting 95% of the least notable BLPs. *** Crotalus *** 14:40, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. Widely published academic; David Eppstein's sources clearly demonstrate notability. Rebecca ( talk) 15:45, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. I see no evidence that this person is more notable than the average tenured college professor. Consequently, I see no reason to keep around an underutilized, underwatched BLP that is a vandalism and liability magnet. *** Crotalus *** 17:35, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
    • This is like arguing against articles on movie actors because the typical average movie actor acts in movies, or arguing against national presidents because the typical average president runs a country. Yes, typical college professors write books and other forms of research publication. However, it is completely false that most college professors have publication records demonstrating as high a level of impact (notability, in the form of other academics taking note of her work). That's why we have WP:PROF: to set standards that distinguish the notable professors from the average ones. By that standard, she passes. — David Eppstein ( talk) 22:12, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
      • Notability guidelines do not "set standards". They are supposed to try to reflect the standards that the community tends to go with at AFD. They are descriptive and no prescriptive. The fact that an article passes then (if this indeed dones) just says articles like this tend to pass - it is not really an arguement for keeping this. I personally prefer to make up my own mind and not read notability statements, others may do as they think best.-- Scott Mac (Doc) 22:17, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
so you think that any argument based on notability guidelines is invalid at an afd? Somehow, I was under the impression that arguments were supposed to be based on guidelines or policy. DGG ( talk ) 21:38, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was redirect to Jeff Chapman (Georgia politician). Cirt ( talk) 20:07, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Chapman Waste Disposal

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A waste disposal company. Having a notable founder does not make a company notable. The only external links were spam for the founder, not the company. Sgroupace ( talk) 18:21, 23 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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  • Delete I don't even think the founder, Jeff Chapman qualifies as notable, nor do most of the persons for whom articles have been created as part of someone's project in Georgia gubernatorial election, 2010 to write a separate page for every person who has declared an interest in that office. Now that's something in need of waste disposal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mandsford ( talk • contribs) 01:07, 31 January 2010
Eastmain is correct, per WP:POLITICIAN, on Mr. Chapman. I tend to agree that most waste disposal companies are not notable in an of themselves (can anyone here recall the name written on the side of the truck that hauls away their garbage each week?) and that the inherent notability of an owner doesn't get passed on to in King Midas fashion to everything the owner touches. Mandsford ( talk) 15:57, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • I disagree. This is a very unlikely search term, since the total absense of Google News/Books/Scholar hits, and that Mr Chapman's article itself had less than 100 page views back in Dec. Nearly all politicians have either been businesspeople or attorneys or both prior to running for office, and ownership of a company so minor that it doesn't even get mentioned in local papers should not be given even a redirect. Abductive ( reasoning) 01:42, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Unlikely yes, of course, but "plausible" is quite a different matter. Redirects are cheap, as they say, and we generally retain them if there's a possibility it could be useful. There are any number of reasons someone might type "Chapman Waste Disposal" into the search box, even if it only happens once in a blue moon (since Chapman is apparently running for Governor there might be more interest in him and his history). A redirect does no harm, and I suppose there's a chance we could stick some small tidbit from the article and merge it into Chapman's bio. WP:R#KEEP suggests maintaining a redirect is worthwhile while WP:R#DELETE doesn't have a reason for deletion that would apply here. It's pretty trivial whether we delete or turn this into a redirect, but I think the latter makes more sense. -- Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 02:36, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was keep. nomination withdrawl - oops JForget 00:57, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Gregory Magarshak

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The subject does not meet the notability criteria for a musician ( WP:MUSN. The article was written by the subject, and none of the references/external links meet the requirements for a reliable source WP:RS. The subject is also not notable as a software developer or entrepreneur WP:N.

I am not a New Yorker or a music aficionado, So I do not know how unusual it is for a child to appear at Carnegie Hall to perform his own work with a professional orchestra. It does not match the WP:MUSN criteria, but if we can find reliable sources that assert that this is unusual and that cite this particular performance, then we can establish notability. If someone can chime in and say "no, this happens a lot," then it's not notable.While looking for sources, also check "Gregori" in addition to "Gregory."

Arch dude ( talk) 16:22, 23 January 2010 (UTC) reply

It hardly ever happens that a child appears at Carnegie hall and performs his work with a professional orchestra. Magarshak was the youngest person to do this as far as I know, the youngest pianist to perform on that level. You can ascertain the notability at http://magarshak.com/piano where several TV programs and magazines are referenced. For example, in the article from "Daily News Magazine", "the youngest person ever to enter Juilliard on a scholarship". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.143.76.29 ( talk) 01:59, 26 January 2010 (UTC) reply

This may very well be true. but we cannot depend on magarshak.com. we need to use reliable sources: see WP:RS for an explanation. Please note: it is perfectly acceptavle to cite the Daily News, even if we cannot access the article online. It is NOT acceptable to cite your web site, for two separate reasons: first, it is not a "reliable source," by our very narrow technical definition. Second, it is a web site that is improperly providing unauthorized copies of copyrighted work. Wikipedia has a prohibition against citing such sites. So, to prove notability, you need to do the following:
  • Cite the Daily News article directly, not your web site. It is not necessary for the cited material to be online, but it does make it easier if you can find it online. (I can help you format your citation: Please post a note on my talk page if you need help)
  • Cite at least one additional "reliable source."
  • Make sure that at least two reliable sources (can include the above) comment on this specific performance. Note that a simple performance announcement is insufficient: we need a full article that spends at least a few paragraphs on you specifically.
  • Make sure that at least two reliable sources (can include the above) indicate that this is unusual.
- Arch dude ( talk) 03:32, 26 January 2010 (UTC) reply
Alright, so let's cite the Daily News and New York Newsday directly. Or, you can use the actual Carnegie Hall stagebill, which talks directly about how unusual the event is. The Russian article talks about it in no uncertain terms ("unprecedented", etc.) but it's in Russian so I don't know if that's acceptable. I would definitely appreciate your help in formatting it, if you could spare a bit of time. Also ... those stills on the site are from programs like "A Musical Encounter" ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0307785/) where there was an entire episode devoted to this. I just don't know where to find it online but if you looked through the series you'd see it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.114.125.45 ( talk) 05:56, 27 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Cite and Keep: I, the original deletion nominator, am changing my implicit !vote from "delete" to "keep", assuming that the outcome of the referencing effort is positive. See my talk page for details. If there is a process for withdrawing an AfD nomination, then we should do that. I would still appreciate another opinion: I almost never participate in AfD and I may not be doing this right. Basically we still have a COI newbie, but I intend to mitigate this by monitoring the article. - Arch dude ( talk) 23:50, 30 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 00:58, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Dalton Boutte

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Formerly unreferenced BLP for which references are thin on the ground.

Does not seem to be generally notable; news mentions seem to be mainly passing references rather than in-depth coverage (VP sells stock! Hold the front page!) and most of the information in here is completely uncited.    pablo hablo. 10:59, 23 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. JForget 02:14, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Ty Russell

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:PORNBIO. Epbr123 ( talk) 00:53, 31 January 2010 (UTC) *Delete The article says Russell is circumcised and reportedly has a 7-inch penis.. Need I say more about the encylcopedic value (or lack thereof) of the article?-- Prodigy96 ( talk) 07:07, 31 January 2010 (UTC) User has been blocked, refer to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Trusted_Throw for details. Ottawa4ever ( talk) 08:04, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply

*Keep because he won the mentioned 1995 award, which does help to establish some notability for inclusion.--TrustMe THROW! 21:05, 31 January 2010 (UTC) User has been blocked, refer to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Trusted_Throw for details. Ottawa4ever ( talk) 08:04, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 20:10, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Paul Carrigan

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:PORNBIO. Epbr123 ( talk) 00:53, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

  • Delete per nom.--TrustMe THROW! 03:41, 31 January 2010 (UTC) Strike blocked sock contribution. Ash ( talk) 20:07, 5 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep This is a terrible nomination, obviously no effort has been made to check notability before raising for deletion in a drive against gay porn stars. He was notable enough to act as himself in the spoof film Full Frontal (2001). He directed over 30 porn films. He starred in over 250 published films (perhaps the most well known are Underground (1997 with Jeff Stryker) and Three Brothers (1998)). As a director he created a whole genre of gay porn wrestling films. Obviously the article needs more references (few sources from the 1990s are on-line) but it is also obvious that due to his impact on the adult film market, he meets WP:ARTIST, WP:GNG, WP:PORNBIO and that there is every prospect of reliable sources being found due to sheer size of his body of work. Ash ( talk) 07:56, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
    • There's no evidence of him passing WP:GNG, and he clearly doesn't pass WP:PORNBIO. He doesn't pass WP:ARTIST as his work hasn't "been the subject of an independent book or feature-length film, or of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews". Epbr123 ( talk) 10:30, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
      • Perhaps you should take a break and have a nice cup of tea? I thought that being one of the most prolific porn stars of his generation would make it pretty obvious that he is notable for this reason alone. PORNBIO is a guide, not a bible. If you need an award to add, start with his lead role in "The Hills have Bi's", it was winner of Best Bi Picture & Best Sex Comedy at the 1996 Gay Erotic Video Awards. Ash ( talk) 12:56, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
        • The films won the awards, not him. Do you have a reliable source that he was one of the most prolific porn stars of his generation? Epbr123 ( talk) 13:08, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
          • The films are publications, they can be counted. How many people do you think have more gay porn film roles than him? Please expect to wait at least 24 hours if you have any more of these sorts of questions. Ash ( talk) 13:15, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions. -- Ash ( talk) 08:12, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. -- Ash ( talk) 08:12, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Keep per body of work that meets WP:ENT and WP:PORNBIO. Send to cleanup. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 01:21, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
    How does he pass WP:ENT or WP:PORNBIO. Epbr123 ( talk) 10:30, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
    Per career and significant roles, how can it possibly be perceived that does he not? Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 19:59, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
    Could you be more specific about how his career meets the notability criteria? Epbr123 ( talk) 20:10, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
    Perhaps more helpful in discussiong your concerns if you could explain how you believe his career and significant roles do not. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 20:37, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. Per Ash, and WP:Pornbio - "Has made unique contributions to a specific pornographic genre," This is simply yet another in roughly 20-30 recent AfD's against gay pornographic actors. -- Banjeboi 11:36, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
    Which of his contributions are unique? Epbr123 ( talk) 11:49, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
    There are very few comments on this page and only two attributed to Ash. I'll allow you to do your own work. -- Banjeboi 12:21, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
  • Delete fails pornbio, bio, all of the relevant notability guidelines for people. Bali ultimate ( talk) 17:13, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - fails pornbio and gng for me. I haven't seen any concrete evidence that verifies his notability. Mainly arguments based on being prolific which was rejected as a criteria when PORNBIO was being developed. Morbidthoughts ( talk) 16:04, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. Absolutely no evidence has been advanced at this time to rebut the nominator's assertion that this article fails to meet the general guideline for notability. Nothing has been done to meet the requirements of the Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons policy in regard to sourcing. BLP is a core policy and not negotiable. [Yes, this is a cut and paste.] Angus McLellan (Talk) 18:09, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
    • Thank you for a cut & paste opinion, in this case you do not appear to be basing your opinion on the sources actually included in this article. Ash ( talk) 14:19, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
  • Delete as above, in spite of the fact that the fellow's contributions in pornography are unique; everyone's DNA is unique, after all. Mostly it's mixed in a cup by a prop specialist. Jack Merridew 08:13, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
What is the world was that supposed to mean? Please, please (please!) tell me that isn't a 2 Girls 1 Cup reference... Stillwaterising ( talk) 23:13, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Comment there appears to be a recent rush of delete opinions either exclusively based on PORNBIO or strongly based on it (from the names of the contributors, likely to be a result of the link I included at Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(people)#Pornographic_actors). In this case Carrigan is an established film director for the specialist genre of erotic wrestling, please take that into account as PORNBIO is for actors not directors. I would also like to point out how blunt a criteria PORNBIO is by contrasting Corrigan's significant impact to the field, and his notability for being the second most credited actor in the history gay pornography, with Christopher Ashlee who amazingly passes PORNBIO because he was once named (along with seven other actors) in a group scene award in a 2009 Grabby but is notable for absolutely nothing else and has been credited with just 2 not-particularly-notable films. Ash ( talk) 14:11, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete the claim that he is "one of the most prolific porn stars of his generation" do not appear to be verifiable through any reliable sources, nor has Carrigan himself apparently received any significant coverage in any reliable, third-party sources. Only a few of his roles have even managed to be verified, which could be seen as a severe WP:BLP violation to associate him with other works and make claims about his career without quality reliable sources. Despite what some folk slike to claim, WP:BIO does NOT trump WP:N. If there are no sources, there are no sources. Ash claims there may be offline sources, but none have been produced. No objection to userifying until such sources are found, but as is, it should be deleted. -- Collectonian ( talk · contribs) 18:37, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
    • Please do not misrepresent my statement. I stated above that "there is every prospect of reliable sources being found due to sheer size of his body of work". It may not have been your intent, but your phrasing reads like an allegation that I was faking the existence of sources. I encourage you to consider the options explained in WP:ATD, particularly as I suggest that the current level of sources in the article are enough to avoid deletion as being unsourced (not that this is ever a good sole reason to delete as we would automatically delete all stub articles). Ash ( talk) 00:46, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep I find that 250+ (or 265+) acting credits and 30 director credits to be sufficient in establishing a notable career. -- Stillwaterising ( talk) 23:02, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete: I was unfamiliar with WP:pornbio, so I've had a little read through:
  1. The films he was in won the awards, not him, so fail.
  2. No mention of nominations, fail.
  3. Is not a Playboy playmate, fail.
  4. Hasn't started a trend, nor starred in an iconic, groundbreaking or blockbuster feature, nor is in the hall of fame, fail.
  5. Has only featured ONCE in mainstream media, fail. Ryan4314 ( talk) 15:33, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was no consensus. Cirt ( talk) 20:10, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Nick Harmon

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:PORNBIO. Epbr123 ( talk) 00:52, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was No consensus. Beeblebrox ( talk) 03:53, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Mohammad Gulzar Saifi

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A whopping total of 26 Google hits for this name. 161 for just " Gulzar Saifi", which is a redirect to this page. Other than that redirect, only two real Wiki pages actually link here--one for the film The Final Inch and one for the director of the film. Clearly not notable as an individual, although the film (of which he is reportedly the protagonist) certainly is. Most of this "biography" is actually information about the film. I recommend copying the small amount of biographical information from Mohammad Gulzar Saifi into the article The Final Inch and deleting with or without redirect. (A note: The user who started this article is currently unable to participate in this discussion due to the terms of an ArbCom decision. If it is felt that my nomination of the article at this time is inappropriate, please postpone it until he is able to contribute directly to the conversation.) Bueller 007 ( talk) 08:06, 23 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Speedy keep. Nominator is suggesting merging, which is not a deletion. See WP:Merge and delete. Taemyr ( talk) 13:10, 27 January 2010 (UTC) reply
I am not necessarily suggesting merging, although I would be satisfied with this outcome. I would like a decision about whether the article should be kept at all---hence I said "delete with or without redirect". Google hits seem to suggest that the subject of the article is completely non-notable---from what I understand it's not even been well confirmed that he is actually the protagonist in the movie---and therefore he may be unworthy even of having his info copied to The Final Inch. And if he is truly the protagonist, the meagre amount of information we have about him could be copied to the page about the movie, but that does not necessarily mean that a redirect page should be used. I am indeed asking for opinion about deletion of this page, therefore WP:Merge and delete does not apply. Bueller 007 ( talk) 04:23, 29 January 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete - Smerdis of Tlön ( talk) 18:37, 5 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Silex Flash CMS

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Reference review:

  • Official site: Reliable, Not independent of the subject.
  • Sourceforge: Reliable, Trivial.
  • GNU- Reliable, Trivial.

I can't find significant coverage for this software. Joe Chill ( talk) 18:48, 15 January 2010 (UTC) reply

The nature of the sources used to show notability necessary depends on an article's subject matter. Mere "obscurity" should not cause sources to be discounted, if they are considered to be reliable. Werner Heisenberg ( talk) 03:27, 16 January 2010 (UTC) — Werner Heisenberg ( talk • contribs) was recently blocked or banned for sock puppetry and is tagged to enforce policy. reply
Actually the prominence of the sources matters, because we'd have every topic from a college newspaper here otherwise (like every student who had a paragraph written about him, and so forth). In this case all the sources blog-like, and with the exception of the O'Reilly one are self-published. The O'Reilly blog only reproduces the official blurb of the software, and asks readers about their opinion. Some of the other look like splogs or aggregators of product descriptions at best. Pcap ping 08:56, 16 January 2010 (UTC) reply
Also the creator of the page, User:Lexoyo, appears to have a WP:COI, see link on his user page. Pcap ping 09:03, 16 January 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was no consensus. Cirt ( talk) 20:10, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Sourav Chatterjee

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He seems to be a marginally notable academic. The article has been subjected to edit warring ranging from attempts to stub it to one sentence to adding silly puffery. I'm nominating it in the hope that the claim(s) for notability will become apparent. Pcap ping 05:56, 23 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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  • Do you have sources saying that? Because mathematicians bloom early, so I could just as easily make up a rule that he should be famous by now. His citation count is 68, 22, 19, 18, 15, 15, 14, 10, 8, 7, 7, 6, 4.... I also note that the article makes no particular claim of an advancement in the field; it just says "he worked on" some things. One has to ask; if every professor works on some research topics, will not every professor get an article? Abductive ( reasoning) 03:00, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • The citation 68 is not him, but someone from Department of Physics and Astronomy, Northwestern University. But even the other numbers are not at all that low for 2-year-old math papers. He has sort of revolutionized Stein's method, finding striking new applications, e.g., gave a new and simple proof of the Komlós-Major-Tusnády strong approximation theorem (1976) for random walks and Brownian motion, which is a strengthening of Skorokhod's embedding theorem. The original KMT paper has 637 citations on Google Scholar. So, these are clearly advancements in probability, how great, I don't really know how to judge. At Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Mathematics#Whack-a-mole.3F, I wrote that
He might be exceptionally good, but it certainly seems too early to have an article on him. For instance, I know a lot of youngish probabilists who are more notable than him (say, based on citations of their first ten papers on Google Scholar, or on prizes) without wikipedia articles on them. But, with the current more realistic article, I don't think it matters much if it is deleted or not.
Maybe wikipedia should have articles on those other youngish probabilists, too. Anyway, My “vote” is weak delete, but can also keep. -- GaborPete ( talk) 06:32, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
The loss of the paper with 68 citations is very damaging to his case, and really should clinch the deletion. Abductive ( reasoning) 06:58, 4 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was speedy keep. ( non-admin closure) Tim Song ( talk) 02:00, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

AmeriCares

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Hello there, Don the Sockpuppet made this nomination because no references exist for the article and it is written like a advertisement. Five Ton Sockpuppet ( talk) 00:46, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was speedy deleted, per WP:CSD #7 "No indication of importance (individuals, animals, organizations, web content)." - Tbsdy (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) talk 10:04, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply

RedSQ

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Contested prod. No reliable sources to verify notability. Ricky81682 ( talk) 04:09, 23 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 00:58, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply

American Technologies Network Corporation

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This article does not meet the notability guidelines for Wikipedia. Much effort has been made on the part of Phantomsteve to research notability, but none was found. The creator and main editor, Stripedfox, has admitted to COI. See the talk page for a detailed discussion between Stripedfox and Phantomsteve. I had previously proposed this for deletion, but since it was controversial, the PROD was removed, therefore I am now nominating through this method. Joshua Scott ( talk) 02:59, 23 January 2010 (UTC) reply

I wanted to ask all of you several questions about this article and about Wikipedia guidelines. As I understand, the main argument was that all of the publications I signed were promotional and ATN maybe have payed money for the material about their company. And for example "The New York Times" is more trusted and respected magazine. But, as I know, publishing in "The New York Times" also costs money. Two years ago to place the article to the first page of this magazine was nearly 2000$. Now, I think, it is much more expensive. So, the first question is, do you consider that only that magazines which take more money for the place on their pages than the rest are more trusted than others?

As for the next question, I have already written about this some time ago and I want to repeat this again. This company does not produce products of daily use, but it offers equipment for Army, Law Enforcement, Police, hunting, hiking etc. So, I think that this branch is enough important for the general Encyclopedia like this one. And as for the night vision and thermal night vision, do you really think that these inventions are not enough important for the world? And ATN were the fist who has developed some technologies for this branch, that many other companies now use (It is in my article).

Also I wanted to ask you to be so kind and list that magazines, publications and Award nominations that can be verified specifically for this industry. And I ask you not to write platitudes but to list concrete publications, which can really be interested to write an article about this company сonsidering it's specificity without money and which are really enough trusted for Wikipedia. Because I think that if there is no enough trusted sources for this concrete theme, it does not mean that this information is not interesting for Encyclopedia, that only means that there is info that is not enough developed in magazines, but despite that it still has it's informational value.

And for the last one, I give you the link to the list of magazines and PDF files of the publications about this company. This list is constantly updated and I hope that you will find respected in this area magazines there that will be enough trusted for Wiki. And I also wanted to recall that in other Encyclopedias only subject specialists approve articles, so if you are Language Specialist you should correct and approve only text, but not the informational content I think. And to approve or deny the article I will kindly ask you to consult with specialists in this concrete theme. That is all, I hope you will review your opinion after consulting with specialists about this theme and I will wait for your decision. Stripedfox | Talk 10:27, 29 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was no consensus. Cirt ( talk) 20:09, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Pál Sümegi

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Procedural - I declined a PROD on this one, since Gscholar turned up decent citation counts. I know nothing about archaeology and read no Hungarian however, so I refer here for further discussion Ray Talk 00:02, 23 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Delete and moveAdd his name and the sentance of why he's notable with citation to List of Hungarians. It will remain redlinked and keep its one sentance long article structure and two references and the redlink might prompt someone to actually create a real article. Nefariousski ( talk) 02:09, 23 January 2010 (UTC) reply
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  • Note: The Hungarian article says he is a doctor of the Hungarian Academy of Science, docent in a Hungarian university, has written 8 books, chapters in 37 books, many articles in periodicals and has 260 "scientific announcements" (eerr.. I don't know this is the proper name of them in English) Their summarized impact factor is 22.000. He has got many scholarships and two prizes. The sad thing is: I don't know this all made him notable, or not according to the enwiki rules. -- Perfectmiss ( talk) 15:00, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

I do not agree with the deletion. Notability and fame are not the same. His notability is supported by the above-written references. Earning fame in geoarcheology as in many other auxiliary sciences of archaeology or historiograpy (heraldics, faleristics, sfragistics) is practically impossible unless someone starts a National Geography TV carrier on some popular issue such as "How to dig out the Holy Grail?" My personal opinion is that we can find easier notable historians among 'unknown' researchers than among famous essayists compiling 1000 page best-sllers by up-grading commonplaces on popular issues. Rokarudi--Rokarudi 17:33, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • The brevity of the article, I suspect. Not that this is a bad reason to delete an article; this one says, in total, "Pál Sümegi (born May 11, 1960 in Tapolca) is a Hungarian geoarchaeologist at the University of Szeged." As such, it could be deleted under A7. If people can be bothered to tell us what somebody is noted for, why have an article, right? Abductive ( reasoning) 09:44, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 00:58, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply

One Lone Car

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Does not meet notability guidelines. Lacks significant coverage in 3rd party sources (references provided are either primary ones, blogs or trivial). No indication of awards, charted singles or albums or anything else that might help meet notability guidelines. Not on a notable label either. RadioFan ( talk) 23:52, 24 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Do Not Delete- I live in NYC and I've seen lots of write ups about this band when they come through. Also, i found this from Dallas/Fort Worth, Texas --

http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2008/dec/13/live-review-one-lone-car-radiant-and-calhoun-lolas/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bball606 ( talk • contribs) 19:20, 29 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. Cirt ( talk) 00:58, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Fremont College

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Non-notable proprietary career college with no significant third-party references. Reads like an ad, author is apparently a single purpose account. Searching Fremont College on google returns three related hits: this article, and two links to their website, google news comes back with absolutely nothing.

Accredited or not, as a for-profit institution, Fremont should be held to the same notability standards as a business, and in that regard, it fails miserably. 2 says you, says two 23:12, 24 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Technically, yes they are accredited. It is through one of those national organizations designed to meet the bare minimum DoE requirements to receive Title IV federal aid, not one of the more recognized regional accreditation agencies. I also remember reading somewhere that the idea of all schools being notable does not necessarily hold true for for-profit institutions. Anyone can set up a career school and get dubious "national accreditation" and call themselves a college. 2 says you, says two 13:50, 25 January 2010 (UTC
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  • Keep. Google News unearthed a fascinating connection between this institution in its 1956 naming and Sequoia University, which is better documented. At the time the institution was investigated as a diploma mill and received attention across the state of California. It's worth keeping for that alone. Edward Vielmetti ( talk) 01:46, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep in some form, I suppose, per Edward Vielmetti. I am not opposed to a merge or what have you, I just think there is a home for this content somewhere. JBsupreme ( talk) 01:53, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Strong keep - Among other things, it's fully accredited as an institution of higher education. (I verified its accreditation on its accreditor's database, and from a US Dept of Education directory I verified that the accreditor is recognized as an accreditor.) Furthermore, Fremont apparently has a long history. -- Orlady ( talk) 02:36, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
Past consensus has stated that accreditation is not necessarily an indicator of notability when the school in question is for-profit or proprietary, these schools are to be treated like businesses for WP:N. That being said, if there's a connection with L. Ron Hubbard then this should be kept, personally I'd feel better with a merge - Sequoia has better sourcing and is more developed, we could fit what is verifiable from Fremont with that. 2 says you, says two 05:16, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 00:57, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Lisa Robertson (television)

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Not to be confused with any other person of the same name, the subjec of this minimally referenced biography is a TV presenter on QVC. The article is essentially a paraphrase of the QVC page on her. Press reporting seems largely limited to passing mentions and a stalking case some years back. No doubt well-known thanks to her work, but not necessarily "notable" in the WP:N Wikipedia sense. Not much here here really. Angus McLellan (Talk) 22:37, 24 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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  • Delete non notable biography. There is a lack of a properly referenced body of work. Stormbay ( talk)
  • KeepThis article should be reinstated and should not of been deleted.I see less notable people with less information and no referenced body of work having biographies listed on Wikipedia.Also almost everyone article or biography is a paraphrase from where the contributor has copy and pasted it from somewhere else. Laker44 ( talk) 20:52, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 00:57, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Search3

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Non-notable website, article written by single-purpose user who is a co-founder of the company. There is some coverage here, but beyond that I have been unable to find any significant third-party coverage from reliable sources. Haakon ( talk) 21:04, 24 January 2010 (UTC) reply


Thanks for your review, i understand the feedback and can provide significantly more links to articles written about Search3 from many sites, will that help? I can't do much about the WP:SPA if other independent people edit the document does that remove this concern? I also see many sites like ours within Wikipedia so would love your assistance to make this page more appropriate, can you help edit it?-- Cdclayton ( talk) 20:27, 25 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Comment cdclayton, the issue isn't really that this is the only thing your editing. A thousand people could edit it, but that doesn't make it any more or less notable of a search engine CTJF83 chat 07:26, 27 January 2010 (UTC) reply
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Delete for now, with no prejudice against recreation later when it becomes more notable (more than Yet Another Me-Too metasearch with release-buzz that promptly falls into obscurity). I checked the refs, and they seem to be are mostly roundup/annotated-lists (not in-depth), passing mention, or near-launch-time items mostly quoting involved people (not independent in-depth analysis). DMacks ( talk) 08:26, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was Keep. The IP user who was the person who actually wanted deletion did not come participate in the discussion, the formal nominator had no !vote, and nobody else has participated. With nobody actively calling for deletion, the most appropriate way to close is as keep, without prejudice to renomination if someone is actively willing to argue for deletion. Metropolitan90 (talk) 06:18, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Mikey L. Hoeven

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Creating this debate page on behalf of [ 86.40.214.5] who did not complete all steps for AfD. Reason given was: "Notability is not inherited, this is a biography with no independent multiple reliable sources, graduating, having children and being married for 25 years is not notable" DOOMSDAYER520 ( Talk| Contribs) 16:33, 24 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 00:57, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Mustang Mike

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Autobiography of unremarkable wrestler. Fails WP:GNG. Delicious carbuncle ( talk) 10:29, 24 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was Merge relevant content to Van Tuong Nguyen. Beeblebrox ( talk) 04:02, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Darshan Singh

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Darshan Singh is only mentioned in primary sources, namely news sources, and only respect to a single event, namely the execution of Van Tuong Nguyen. He does not meet the general notability standard, nor the specific one for people, because of lack of coverage in secondary sources. See also People notable only for one event. Request Deletion Bejnar ( talk) 06:51, 24 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. JForget 00:23, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

English country music

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This article is unreferenced, and because of the nebulous subject matter, I see no way to reference it. Even if we verify the events described, we cannot easily verify that the culturual significance is anything other than the article author's opinion. Chutznik ( talk) 06:28, 24 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. JForget 00:22, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Desktop Factory

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Non-notable corporation, lacks external refs, is a small startup that never actually sold a product and was consumed by another company. MBisanz talk 05:59, 24 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. JForget 00:21, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Dan Briody

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Considering the only source is an op-ed piece in a newspaper and the books don't appear to be notable on their own (the first is ranked 873,000th on WP), I believe he fails our notability guidelines. MBisanz talk 05:57, 24 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 00:57, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Pint o' Politics: A Discourse on the Modern Poltical Climate

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Self-published book with no evidence of notability. — RHaworth ( talk · contribs) 04:23, 24 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was no consensus. Cirt ( talk) 20:08, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Kaneva Game Platform

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Article describes thing which no longer exists RawrMage ( talk) 19:38, 17 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 00:56, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Manga BoyZ

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Non-notable role-playing game, with no coverage in reliable sources. TN X Man 21:00, 17 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Manga BoyZ is not a Manga but Role-playing_game ! Le Grimoire is a publisher in France since 1992. Manga BoyZ is one of the universe published by the editor. Four books are available. Reliable sources can be found. -- Ellwen ( talk) 19:12, 19 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was no consensus. JForget 00:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Necessary Records

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I can't find significant coverage for this record label. Joe Chill ( talk) 02:04, 17 January 2010 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 00:56, 2 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Airpushers

Airpushers (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • AfD statistics)
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I can't find significant coverage for this band. Joe Chill ( talk) 01:13, 24 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JForget 00:17, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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The result was Keep. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 21:02, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Emma Summerton

Emma Summerton (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Not notable. Does not meet any of the criteria of WP:CREATIVE. May also fail WP:PROMO Wikipeterproject ( talk) 00:03, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

  • Keep This photographer does fail WP:CREATIVE, but I believe is notable given the large number of citations of her photography from a wide range of sources. A simple google search and a google news search bring up lots of hits on her and she seems to have collaborated in more than a cursory way with a large number of magazines and fashion houses. She is notable as a photographer, but not a creative one. I have added a few of the sources I turned up and will try to add some more later. Jenafalt ( talk) 15:28, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. She's a notable fashion photographer; as Jenafalt as demonstrated, there are more than enough sources to prove notability here. Rebecca ( talk) 15:43, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Squeaks by with adequate sources, as per Rebecca's observation. Warrah ( talk) 21:12, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep a pro photographer with such a wide resume, including editorial work for Vogue and the like, is certainly notable. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 17:42, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Weak keep - I am persuaded by the keep arguments. Any POV/spam concerns should be addressed through editing. Those, however, are editing issues, and I am persuaded that the subject merits inclusion. Cocytus [»talk«] 00:14, 7 February 2010 (UTC) reply
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The result was no consensus. Cirt ( talk) 20:08, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply

Adam Ferguson (photographer)

Adam Ferguson (photographer) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Not notable. Does not meet the criteria of WP:CREATIVE Wikipeterproject ( talk) 00:07, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Comment: That's no problem. Even though I am arguing to delete the page, I can clearly see why you would have thought it was worth creating. Of course these debates - regardless of their outcome - should never reflect on an creator/editor who has acted in good faith (as you have clearly done). Wikipeterproject ( talk) 21:42, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Delete without prejudice. This was a tough one for me, I thought that this person should be notable enough as per WP:GNG, but apparently he lacks the non-trivial coverage from multiple third party sources. That's not to say there never will be such sources available, so perhaps in time this one can be recreated. JBsupreme ( talk) 07:16, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. I know the consensus so far has been 'delete', but I did a bit of in-depth searching and found some non-trivial coverage to satisfy WP:GNG - namely [37] [38] [39] [40] [41], and to some extent [42] (the first one also goes part-way to satisfying WP:CREATIVE's 'significant exhibition' criterion). The list goes on. Therefore, I'd say that this article satisfies the general notability guideline - significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. JulieSpaulding ( talk) 07:26, 31 January 2010 (UTC) reply
(Response): Thanks for the links. Unfortunately the definition of a "non-trivial" source is a bit subjective. There are however some guidelines on relaible sources at WP:RELIABLE, which seems to favour news articles and scholorly sources. Self-published articles, blogs and promotional material are considered "questionable sources". Some of the links you provided might fall into the latter category. There are many, many photographers (and other creative professionals) who get mentioned in a range of material, but I am not sure that these are what the guidelines intend. Wikipeterproject ( talk) 21:37, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Photography-related deletion discussions. — Jenafalt ( talk) 16:20, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Again, as with the afd for Emma Summerton this article does fail WP:CREATIVE but is still about someone who is notable enough for an article on wikipedia. Not all photographers have to be very creative to be notable - some are notable for their commercial success, for example. Their are many sources available to show that this person is notable. Jenafalt ( talk) 16:26, 1 February 2010 (UTC) reply
    • Response: WP:CREATIVE isn't about the creativity of the photographer. It's about their notability. As a rule, the photographer should pass at least one of the criteria set out in the policy and this should be supported by independent and reliable sources. We don't have that with this article. The one reliable source (Time magazine) is an article that mentions Ferguson but doesn't confirm his notability. I encourage everyone commenting here to read WP:CREATIVE and see if they can't find one or two sources that provide evidence against one of the criteria. If that doesn't happen, tyhe keep votes really aren't worth much and the article should be deleted on the basis of lack of notability Wikipeterproject ( talk) 21:27, 8 February 2010 (UTC) reply
    • Response I am confused as to why this article has to meet WP:CREATIVE. Why can't the photographer be notable in other terms? Jenafalt ( talk) 07:51, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply
      • Response: He certainly can be, but then the article would only give passing reference to his photography and focus on the reason for his notability. As it stands, it's about him as a photographer, which is why his notability as a photographer is being debated. Even the article's name states that he is a photographer! WP:CREATIVE provides the specific guidelines for determining notability of photographers, among others. If you have evidence that he is notable for some other reason, by all means rewrite the artile and provide the sources! Wikipeterproject ( talk) 08:47, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply
    • Response: I suppose what I am saying is that he can be a notable photographer without being a particularly creative one. This was also the point I was making with the afd for Emma Summerton. There are some photographers who are not notable as art photographers, but are notable for other things - one of which might be them being a very in demand fashion or commercial photographer. The work doesn't have to be very good in a strictly creative sense, but their use by lots of people is. So for example virgin broadband might be a terrible broadband provider, but it is still important because lots of people use it. - maybe a not very good example, but can you see what I am getting at? I think that the WP:CREATIVE might be appropriate for art photographers, but not for commercial photographers. Jenafalt ( talk) 10:22, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Response. The "creative" in WP:CREATIVE is just a tag. If you read the first line of the criteria, it's for creative professionals, where the word "creative" means "make stuff". It covers scientists, academics, economists, professors, authors, editors, journalists, filmmakers, photographers, artists, architects, engineers, and other creative professionals. It doesn't, as far as I can tell, try to imply that the creative professional is particularly artistic. Wikipeterproject ( talk) 14:10, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. Interned at VII, shortly thereafter invited to join a small and select group (people from VII and Magnum) to appear (he's here) at "Seeking Justice: Social Activism through Journalism & Documentary Practice". No he doesn't meet WP:CREATIVE, just as a huge percentage of Wikipedia biographees don't meet WP:CREATIVE. Flash your tits for a photographer one day and be airbrushed into the centre pages of Playboy (US circulation 2.4M) and you are guaranteed an article, have photos by you shown in Time (US circulation 3.4M) and you're still a nobody. Do note, however, that its bizarreness aside, WP:CREATIVE is just one part of a page whose preambulatory nutshell says that A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject. Ferguson was covered very significantly by Photo District News, got more than a mention at Time, and is written up (not merely as an alumnus but as a featured guest) by an arm of Griffith University. These are all independent of Ferguson and their total adds up to significance to me. -- Hoary ( talk) 14:04, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Passes WP:GNG. Coverage in Photo District News and Time is non-trivial in my opinion. Jujutacular  T ·  C 19:57, 9 February 2010 (UTC) reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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