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cs1|2 is somewhat schizophrenic when validating |year=
. If I write:
{{cite book |title=Title |year=August 2023}}
→ Title. August 2023.no error even though 'August 2023' is not a 'year'. But, if I write:
{{cite book |title=Title |year=August 2023 |date=August 2023}}
→ Title. August 2023. {{
cite book}}
: Check date values in: |year=
(
help)CS1 maint: date and year (
link)there is an error message because 'August 2023' is not a 'year'.
I propose to add a maintenance category to identify cs1|2 templates that have |year=
where the assigned value is not YYY
, YYYY
, their circa forms, year-only ranges, and with or without CITEREF
disambiguators. To make cs1|2 consistent in how it validates |year=
I propose that we define |year=
so that it may only hold one of the year formats named above. To accomplish that, we need to know where noncompliant |year=
year parameters exist so that they may be repaired before a fix is made in
Module:Citation/CS1/Date validation. The category is necessary because there are a so many non-cs1|2 templates that use |year=
that Cirrus searching is woefully inadequate.
Yea or nay?
—
Trappist the monk (
talk)
15:53, 29 June 2024 (UTC) 13:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC) (modified)
|year=2020–2022
, be treated? --
Michael Bednarek (
talk)
01:03, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
|date=2020–2022
. Clearly there will be whining about this so I have modified the proposed definition of |year=
.|date=
and |year=
explained at
Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 31#Preference between year or date parameter in Cite Journal. Two editors mention using |year=
to discourage future editors/bots from changing "YYYY" to something like "January YYYY" arbitrarily.
Rjjiii (
talk)
07:27, 30 June 2024 (UTC)|year=
parameters become errors categorized in the already existing
Category:CS1 errors: dates.{{cite book/new |title=Title |year=900}}
|year=900
(ok):
|year=c. 900
(ok):
|year=c. 900a
(ok):
|year=1900
(ok):
|year=900–1000
(ok):
|year=1951–52
(ok):
|year=August 1900
(not ok because month is not a year):
|year=Winter 1951–52
(not ok because season is not a year)::
|year=April–May 1900
(not ok because month range is not a year):
{{cite book/new |title=Title |year={{circa}} 900}}
{{
cite book}}
: Check date values in: |year=
(
help)CS1 maint: year (
link)"Volume values that are wholly digits, wholly uppercase Roman numerals, or fewer than five characters will appear in bold." Why is bold text used in these cases? - BobKilcoyne ( talk) 05:47, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
The cite magazine template should support the |agency parameter - for example this article
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/golf-hope-ap should be cited as
"Vegas Hangs On". Golf Digest. January 23, 2011. {{
cite magazine}}
: Unknown parameter |agency=
ignored (
help) - but that throws an error. Some magazines do use news agencies so this should be a supported parameter.
Tewapack (
talk)
19:39, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
{{cite news |url= https://www.golfdigest.com/story/golf-hope-ap |title= Vegas Hangs On |work= Golf Digest | date= January 23, 2011 |agency= Associated Press}}
Folly Mox (
talk)
16:13, 13 July 2024 (UTC)I tried to use {{ ill}} inside a {{ cite journal}}, like this:
* {{cite journal |author={{ill|Reinhold Merkelbach|de|Reinhold Merkelbach}} |title=Zwei neue orphisch-dionysische Totenpässe |lang=de |journal=Zeitschrift für Papyrologie und Epigraphik |number=76 |year=1989 |pages=15–16 |url=https://www.jstor.org/stable/20187001}}
But that currently renders without any wikilink, like this:
{{
cite journal}}
: Check |author=
value (
help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link) CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (
link)Is this bad interaction fixable by someone who knows about templates? -- Quuxplusone ( talk) 14:46, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
|author-link=:de:Reinhold Merkelbach
, which has the desired effect.
Folly Mox (
talk)
14:49, 6 July 2024 (UTC){{
ill}}
produces this:
[[Reinhold Merkelbach]]<span class="noprint" style="font-size:85%; font-style: normal; "> [[[:de:Reinhold Merkelbach|de]]]</span>
|author=
wants to see only a single name (which may be wikilinked) but it certainly does not want to see the styling that {{ill}}
adds.|author=[[:de:Reinhold Merkelbach|Reinhold Merkelbach]]
author-link
or otherwise) is right out. I'll leave it as-is for now, but I hope this can be fixed someday. (For example, by finding whatever innards of the author
field currently "want[] to see only a single name (which may be wikilinked)" and whitelisting {{
ill}} as a valid possibility there, too.) --
Quuxplusone (
talk)
17:39, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
{{cite journal |author=[[:de:Reinhold Merkelbach|Reinhold Merkelbach]] |title=Zwei neue orphisch-dionysische Totenpässe |lang=de |journal=Zeitschrift für Papyrologie und Epigraphik |number=76 |year=1989 |pages=15–16 |url=https://www.jstor.org/stable/20187001}}
[[:xx:Name]]
, will AFAIK forever prevent those links to be automatically converted to a local link if an article for that author gets written here. I wonder if this could be improved if the templates added a tracking category in those cases (in article space only) so that
User:Cewbot's
task #1, run by
User:Kanashimi, has a way of locating this usage. --
Michael Bednarek (
talk)
00:54, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
{{cite journal/new |author=[[:de:Reinhold Merkelbach|Reinhold Merkelbach]] |title=Zwei neue orphisch-dionysische Totenpässe |lang=de |journal=Zeitschrift für Papyrologie und Epigraphik |number=76 |year=1989 |pages=15–16 |url=https://www.jstor.org/stable/20187001}}
{{cite journal/new |author=Reinhold Merkelbach |author-link=:d:Q972677 |title=Zwei neue orphisch-dionysische Totenpässe |lang=de |journal=Zeitschrift für Papyrologie und Epigraphik |number=76 |year=1989 |pages=15–16 |url=https://www.jstor.org/stable/20187001}}
"cs1|2 annotates interwiki-linked author names so that readers can see that the interwiki-linked author name is at a non-English Wikipedia" — Oh, that's awesome! I recommend tweaking the formatting just a little bit, so that instead of displaying as " Reinhold Merkelbach [in German]" it would display as " Reinhold Merkelbach [ de]". (That's trivial, and would also address Michael Bednarek's defect report.) And then perhaps instead of making the user have to know to type [[:de:Thing|Thing]], permit them to type {{ill|Thing|de|Thing}}. That would have the effect of accomplishing what I'm looking for, as a very small modification of what you've already implemented. -- Quuxplusone ( talk) 17:41, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
Keep? Discard?+1 for 'keep'. -- Michael Bednarek ( talk) 03:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
I have to think that, for metadata purposes, it would be much cleaner to do this:
{{cite journal |last=Merkelbach |first=Reinhold |author-link=de:Reinhold Merkelbach |title=Zwei neue orphisch-dionysische Totenpässe |lang=de |journal=Zeitschrift für Papyrologie und Epigraphik |number=76 |date=1989 |pages=15–16 |url= https://www.jstor.org/stable/20187001}}
But for some reason this is mis-rendered, presumably due to some questionably desirable pre-filtering of the value of |author-link=
:
{{
cite journal}}
: Check |author-link=
value (
help)This:
{{cite journal |last=Merkelbach |first=Reinhold |author-mask=[[de:Reinhold Merkelbach|Merkelbach, Reinhold]] |title=Zwei neue orphisch-dionysische Totenpässe |lang=de |journal=Zeitschrift für Papyrologie und Epigraphik |number=76 |date=1989 |pages=15–16 |url= https://www.jstor.org/stable/20187001}}
also fails:
{{
cite journal}}
: Check |author-mask=
value (
help)Ideally, I would think |author-link=
would be the way to do this, and that it would detect the canonical other-project prefixes (mostly language codes), and do {{
ILL}}
-style stuff. Even if that's too much work, then just not barfing on a xx:
language-code prefix would be good, even if does no extra things borrowed from {{ILL}}
and just builds the link the way doing a bare [[de:Reinhold Merkelbach|Merkelbach, Reinhold]]
works outside the template:
Merkelbach, Reinhold. —
SMcCandlish
☏
¢ 😼
11:21, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
[[de:Reinhold Merkelbach|Merkelbach, Reinhold]]
→
Merkelbach, Reinhold|author=
parameter or uses the |author-link=
parameter; contributor, editor, etc links similarly suppressed.In a conversation at
Template talk:Internet Archive#Registration required parameter it was pointed out that {{
Cite book}} does not produce an external link indicator for a title URL if |url-access=
is specified:
What's the rationale? -- Michael Bednarek ( talk) 14:26, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
https://example.com/document.pdf A PDF Document
→
A PDF Document
The redirect
Wikipedia:Lua cites has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 July 8 § Wikipedia:Lua cites until a consensus is reached.
Nickps (
talk)
13:48, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
Module:Citation has been
nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at
the entry on the Templates for discussion page.
Nickps (
talk)
16:01, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
"Newsroom" (or "newsroom", "News-room", "news-room", "News Room", "News room", "news room"). I've encounted this in |last=
at least twice in the last month or so. Might need to flag "News" by itself, too, though I guess it's conceivable for someone to be named something like "Janet News". I know for a fact that Room is an extant surname. —
SMcCandlish
☏
¢ 😼
11:01, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
|last=
and was a bit surprised it's not considered a generic name. An insource:
search yielded around 1000 hits, including maybe 30% false positives because I didn't want to pound the servers with a regex to escape the =
. A quick scroll through the first 500 results showed a single valid usage as a surname, at
Ziphosuchia, with the balance of true positives consisting of publishing companies misparsed by Citoid and pals.
Folly Mox (
talk)
11:24, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
Company
or company
as whole values. If someone cares to check the results of
this search if may be possible to loosen the restriction so that the test finds names that include Company
or company
. Corporate authors are allowed so I don't think that we can error when a name simply includes Company
or company
.|last=Company
, without involving substring matching.
Folly Mox (
talk)
21:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
insource:"last Company first"
now returns only around 350 matches, although of course it misses cases where the parameters are in a different order. The one author we cite whose actual human surname is "Company" is cited in at least three articles as it turns out, the other two being
Ischyrochampsa and
Wanosuchus (I note to myself for future double parentheses).
Folly Mox (
talk)
00:18, 18 July 2024 (UTC)|lastn=
or |authorn=
parameters with values that begin News
or news
. When I ran that search, I found: Newsby, Newsinger, Newsom, Newsome, Newstead, Newsum among the first 20 results; some of them multiple times. So our generic name search is limited to finding only News
or news
as whole values to avoid false positives.Newsroom
and newsroom
seems worthwhile; the others, not.|lastn=Bureau
or |authorn=Bureau
. This search fund about
8300 articles where the assigned value begins with Bureau
. Of those about
6680 hold only the word Bureau
. There are authors whose surname is Bureau
.bureau
and company
as whole values; added test for the various forms of newsroom
named in the OP where the word(s) may appear anywhere in the parameter value:
{{cite book/new |title=Title |last=Bureau}}
→ Bureau. Title. {{
cite book}}
: |last=
has generic name (
help){{cite book/new |title=Title |last=Bureau}}
→ Bureau drawer. Title.{{cite book/new |title=Title |last=Company}}
→ Company. Title. {{
cite book}}
: |last=
has generic name (
help){{cite book/new |title=Title |last=Company}}
→ Mega Huge Company. Title.{{cite book/new |title=Title |last=Newsroom}}
→ Newsroom. Title. {{
cite book}}
: |last=
has generic name (
help){{cite book/new |title=Title |last=News room}}
→ News room. Title. {{
cite book}}
: |last=
has generic name (
help){{cite book/new |title=Title |last=News-room}}
→ News-room. Title. {{
cite book}}
: |last=
has generic name (
help){{cite book/new |title=Title |last=The News Room}}
→ The News Room. Title. {{
cite book}}
: |last=
has generic name (
help)Desk
whole word:
Group
and Limited
both whole word:
{{cite book/new |title=Title |last=Group}}
→ Group. Title. {{
cite book}}
: |last=
has generic name (
help){{cite book/new |title=Title |last=Group photo}}
→ Group photo. Title.{{cite book/new |title=Title |last=Limited}}
→ Limited. Title. {{
cite book}}
: |last=
has generic name (
help){{cite book/new |title=Title |last=Limited availability}}
→ Limited availability. Title.correspondent
as the only entry in an author field. Currently 515 occurances.
Keith D (
talk)
10:33, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
correspondent
in |authorn=
or |lastn=
:Cite paper redirects to Cite journal. What should be done when the paper in question is a white paper published by a manufacturer, but not part of a journal, and not one of a clear series? It's more of a technical backgrounder on their significant invention. Andy Dingley ( talk) 13:50, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
|series=
. If this is about
Paxman Hi-Dyne engines, I'd probably go with {{
Cite web}}, since the reproduction of the original via Richard Carr's Paxman History Pages is a human conversion to HTML and the original source
is not what was consulted.
Folly Mox (
talk)
14:39, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
|type=White paper
?
Remsense
诉
15:42, 14 July 2024 (UTC)but if it's online and you don't need specific page numbersDo you mean to suggest that
{{
cite web}}
does not support the pagination parameters? If you do then you are mistook:
Some web servers refuse access as a way of avoiding having to respect the GDPR. This is especially the case for some US-based servers - presumably the idea that ordinary people might have the right to privacy is too radical to some newspapers. See this example for an archiver, in which case the archiver was presumably a server located outside of the US. Maybe there are similar cases for some Russian and Chinese servers that refuse access to people who can't be tracked.
Our current option limited for url-access for {{
web cite}} gives the mouseover text Free access subject to limited trial, subscription normally required
, which is misleading for web servers that require privacy violation. The alternatives registration and subscription are misleading for this case too.
We need to either:
Access forbidden to some geographical locations; or
Free access in some cases.
This will require an extension or correction (respectively) to
['registration'] = {class='id-lock-registration', title='Free registration required'}, ['limited'] = {class='id-lock-limited', title='Free access subject to limited trial, subscription normally required'}, ['subscription'] = {class='id-lock-subscription', title='Paid subscription required'},
in Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration by someone with editing access. Boud ( talk) 11:35, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
Possibly related discussions:
Neither of these seem to mention the geo-related access-only-with-privacy-violation issue. The GDPR officially became active in 2018 and my feeling is that US geo restrictions were implemented by some US newspapers quite rapidly. But it seems like this issue hasn't been discussed earlier. Boud ( talk) 11:45, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
{{
cite web}}
: |author1=
has numeric name (
help)The |author1=34
generates a red message. This is how the author signs their name, "34", and the name of the work is 34Questions. Is there a way to express this without a red message? --
Green
C
23:08, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
{{cite av media |author1=((34)) |title=Lane Rasberry |url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmhsqYsvz-I |publisher=34Questions |via=YouTube |language=en |date=19 September 2021}}
This would cover DOI patterns
Is is possible to implement those? Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 02:44, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
|doi-access=free
and the doi registrant is not listed as always free. The test for always-free dois does not suffer from this because the free-registrant table is converted from a sequence to an associative array (only occurs once per article rendering). Looking up a doi registrant in the array is quick.|doi-access=free
. And with ~7000 articles citing MNRAS, it's extremely inefficient to do Citation bot runs in the hopes of catching stragglers.
Headbomb {
t ·
c ·
p ·
b}
12:24, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
10.registrant/
so in regex: registrant = 10\.([^\/]+)\/
. To determine if that registrant is free-to-read, we simply index into the known-free associative array: is_free = known_free_doi_registrants_t[registrant]
.it's rather trivial to match those (e.g. 10\.1093\/mnras). True, but every doi in the article must be tested like that. And if not found, we then have to test every doi in the article with
10\.1111\/j\.1365-2966
. And if not found, we then have to test every doi in the article with 10\.1046\/j\.1365-8711
.local extended_registrants_t = { -- known free registrants identifiable by the doi suffix incipit
'1046' = {'j.1365-8711'}, -- MNRAS
'1093' = {'mnras'}, -- MNRAS
'1111' = {'j.1365-2966'}, -- MNRAS
}
1234
not a known registrant and not an extended registrant no further testing required. Registrant 5320
is a known free-to-read registrant so if no |doi-access=free
add the maint cat. Registrant 1093
is an extended registrant so for each value in its associated sequence, do a string find for that value. If found and no |doi-access=free
add the maint cat. Still slower but not so bad as I was thinking it would be.{{cite journal/new |title=Title |journal=Journal |doi=10.1093/mnras/summat}}
{{
cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (
link){{cite journal/new |title=Title |journal=Journal |doi=10.1111/j.1365-2966.summat}}
{{
cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (
link){{cite journal/new |title=Title |journal=Journal |doi=10.1046/j.1365-8711.summat}}
{{
cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (
link)I request making parameter access-date to be used if there is a DOI or a PMID. Currently an error appears with an access date parameter without a URL, meaning the "|access-date=2015-02-11" part has to be in an HTML comment outside of the template (cf., inter alia, Desmarestiales).
Having no need for a URL for an access date to be used helps when one uses a book (or a book chapter, if the book is there but some chapters are not) or a journal article that is not accessible online, for it was not uploaded.
An alternative solution would be to have a URL or a DOI, or a HDL, or a PMCID, or a PMID to be required to make the access date able to be used. Alfa-ketosav ( talk) 08:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
|access-date=
is intended only for sources whose content is likely to change over time, so people can locate the cited version in archives. Stable identifiers point to content that doesn't change. What do you feel the benefit is to adding this datum to stable sources?
Folly Mox (
talk)
10:55, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
Editor Uzume, where is the discussion about these changes?
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 11:23, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
https://www.worldcat.org/oclc/
can easily be read by humans as an OCLC identifier url; https://search.worldcat.org/title/
cannot.{{
OCLC}}
at the
creation of that template (http://worldcat.org/oclc/
)//www.worldcat.org/oclc/
)https://worldcat.org/oclc/
){{OCLC search link|22239204}}
→
22239204 (and yes, @
Folly Mox the template is called "OCLC search link" so it is a search), then that page has a button for sharing a link to the record and from there, an item entitled "Copy link" which presumably is the link WorldCat recommends people use. And that yields:
https://search.worldcat.org/en/title/22239204, providing the link prefix of https://search.worldcat.org/en/title/
before the identifier to be linked to. So, perhaps I failed to get the URL correct and did not specify the "en" English UI (I tested and links like
https://search.worldcat.org/ja/title/22239204 link to the same record with a Japanese UI). Please feel free to update the link prefixes appropriately. Incidentally, that very same record also has a "show more information" link that provides more information and within that it links to the "Online version" of the represented item. That link points to
https://search.worldcat.org/search?q=no:701649298 providing a means to get to items via their search query. Perhaps you'd prefer that link prefix as https://search.worldcat.org/search?q=no:
for OCLC searches directly aligns with the link prefix https://search.worldcat.org/search?q=n2:
for ISSN searches. —
Uzume (
talk)
21:35, 25 July 2024 (UTC)search
. Jmo.
Folly Mox (
talk)
14:17, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
search.worldcat.org
and OCLC. I don't feel particularly strongly about this, and have no opinion whatsoever about the ISSN bits, since I rarely include them and never click through on them.
Folly Mox (
talk)
22:10, 25 July 2024 (UTC)I wanted to cite this:
http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/documents/Research/RAF-Historical-Society-Journals/Journal-11-Sir%20Frank-Cooper-on-Air-Force-Policy-in-the-1950s-1960s.pdf ("THE PROCEEDINGS OF THE ROYAL AIR FORCE HISTORICAL SOCIETY, Issue No 11"), but {{
cite proceedings}}
ignores the |issue=
parameter. The only supported parameter seems to be |volume=
, but it unconditionally adds "Vol." and complains "|volume= has extra text" about anything that is not a plain digital number. Can the proper output be achieved using currently existing templates, or {{cite proceedings}}
needs to be modified (then please do)? —
Mikhail Ryazanov (
talk)
18:10, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
{{
cite journal}}
requires both |title=
and |journal=
, but I need to cite the whole publication. And it's not a journal issue but really proceedings from their
symposium (which "in modern usage, [means] an academic conference or meeting, such as a scientific conference"). —
Mikhail Ryazanov (
talk)
21:06, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
{{
cite proceedings}}
is a redirect to {{
cite conference}}
. {{cite conference}}
is screwy (because no one has ever complained enough?). It will support |issue=
if it also contains |journal=
:
{{cite proceedings |title=Title |journal=Journal |volume=XX |issue=4 |conference=Conference}}
|title=
should not be italicized.Is there a way to display the title of a work in quotes rather than italics when using {{ Cite AV media}}? I can't figure out a way to change the default italic formatting. Lord Bolingbroke ( talk) 01:32, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
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cs1|2 is somewhat schizophrenic when validating |year=
. If I write:
{{cite book |title=Title |year=August 2023}}
→ Title. August 2023.no error even though 'August 2023' is not a 'year'. But, if I write:
{{cite book |title=Title |year=August 2023 |date=August 2023}}
→ Title. August 2023. {{
cite book}}
: Check date values in: |year=
(
help)CS1 maint: date and year (
link)there is an error message because 'August 2023' is not a 'year'.
I propose to add a maintenance category to identify cs1|2 templates that have |year=
where the assigned value is not YYY
, YYYY
, their circa forms, year-only ranges, and with or without CITEREF
disambiguators. To make cs1|2 consistent in how it validates |year=
I propose that we define |year=
so that it may only hold one of the year formats named above. To accomplish that, we need to know where noncompliant |year=
year parameters exist so that they may be repaired before a fix is made in
Module:Citation/CS1/Date validation. The category is necessary because there are a so many non-cs1|2 templates that use |year=
that Cirrus searching is woefully inadequate.
Yea or nay?
—
Trappist the monk (
talk)
15:53, 29 June 2024 (UTC) 13:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC) (modified)
|year=2020–2022
, be treated? --
Michael Bednarek (
talk)
01:03, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
|date=2020–2022
. Clearly there will be whining about this so I have modified the proposed definition of |year=
.|date=
and |year=
explained at
Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 31#Preference between year or date parameter in Cite Journal. Two editors mention using |year=
to discourage future editors/bots from changing "YYYY" to something like "January YYYY" arbitrarily.
Rjjiii (
talk)
07:27, 30 June 2024 (UTC)|year=
parameters become errors categorized in the already existing
Category:CS1 errors: dates.{{cite book/new |title=Title |year=900}}
|year=900
(ok):
|year=c. 900
(ok):
|year=c. 900a
(ok):
|year=1900
(ok):
|year=900–1000
(ok):
|year=1951–52
(ok):
|year=August 1900
(not ok because month is not a year):
|year=Winter 1951–52
(not ok because season is not a year)::
|year=April–May 1900
(not ok because month range is not a year):
{{cite book/new |title=Title |year={{circa}} 900}}
{{
cite book}}
: Check date values in: |year=
(
help)CS1 maint: year (
link)"Volume values that are wholly digits, wholly uppercase Roman numerals, or fewer than five characters will appear in bold." Why is bold text used in these cases? - BobKilcoyne ( talk) 05:47, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
The cite magazine template should support the |agency parameter - for example this article
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/golf-hope-ap should be cited as
"Vegas Hangs On". Golf Digest. January 23, 2011. {{
cite magazine}}
: Unknown parameter |agency=
ignored (
help) - but that throws an error. Some magazines do use news agencies so this should be a supported parameter.
Tewapack (
talk)
19:39, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
{{cite news |url= https://www.golfdigest.com/story/golf-hope-ap |title= Vegas Hangs On |work= Golf Digest | date= January 23, 2011 |agency= Associated Press}}
Folly Mox (
talk)
16:13, 13 July 2024 (UTC)I tried to use {{ ill}} inside a {{ cite journal}}, like this:
* {{cite journal |author={{ill|Reinhold Merkelbach|de|Reinhold Merkelbach}} |title=Zwei neue orphisch-dionysische Totenpässe |lang=de |journal=Zeitschrift für Papyrologie und Epigraphik |number=76 |year=1989 |pages=15–16 |url=https://www.jstor.org/stable/20187001}}
But that currently renders without any wikilink, like this:
{{
cite journal}}
: Check |author=
value (
help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link) CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (
link)Is this bad interaction fixable by someone who knows about templates? -- Quuxplusone ( talk) 14:46, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
|author-link=:de:Reinhold Merkelbach
, which has the desired effect.
Folly Mox (
talk)
14:49, 6 July 2024 (UTC){{
ill}}
produces this:
[[Reinhold Merkelbach]]<span class="noprint" style="font-size:85%; font-style: normal; "> [[[:de:Reinhold Merkelbach|de]]]</span>
|author=
wants to see only a single name (which may be wikilinked) but it certainly does not want to see the styling that {{ill}}
adds.|author=[[:de:Reinhold Merkelbach|Reinhold Merkelbach]]
author-link
or otherwise) is right out. I'll leave it as-is for now, but I hope this can be fixed someday. (For example, by finding whatever innards of the author
field currently "want[] to see only a single name (which may be wikilinked)" and whitelisting {{
ill}} as a valid possibility there, too.) --
Quuxplusone (
talk)
17:39, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
{{cite journal |author=[[:de:Reinhold Merkelbach|Reinhold Merkelbach]] |title=Zwei neue orphisch-dionysische Totenpässe |lang=de |journal=Zeitschrift für Papyrologie und Epigraphik |number=76 |year=1989 |pages=15–16 |url=https://www.jstor.org/stable/20187001}}
[[:xx:Name]]
, will AFAIK forever prevent those links to be automatically converted to a local link if an article for that author gets written here. I wonder if this could be improved if the templates added a tracking category in those cases (in article space only) so that
User:Cewbot's
task #1, run by
User:Kanashimi, has a way of locating this usage. --
Michael Bednarek (
talk)
00:54, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
{{cite journal/new |author=[[:de:Reinhold Merkelbach|Reinhold Merkelbach]] |title=Zwei neue orphisch-dionysische Totenpässe |lang=de |journal=Zeitschrift für Papyrologie und Epigraphik |number=76 |year=1989 |pages=15–16 |url=https://www.jstor.org/stable/20187001}}
{{cite journal/new |author=Reinhold Merkelbach |author-link=:d:Q972677 |title=Zwei neue orphisch-dionysische Totenpässe |lang=de |journal=Zeitschrift für Papyrologie und Epigraphik |number=76 |year=1989 |pages=15–16 |url=https://www.jstor.org/stable/20187001}}
"cs1|2 annotates interwiki-linked author names so that readers can see that the interwiki-linked author name is at a non-English Wikipedia" — Oh, that's awesome! I recommend tweaking the formatting just a little bit, so that instead of displaying as " Reinhold Merkelbach [in German]" it would display as " Reinhold Merkelbach [ de]". (That's trivial, and would also address Michael Bednarek's defect report.) And then perhaps instead of making the user have to know to type [[:de:Thing|Thing]], permit them to type {{ill|Thing|de|Thing}}. That would have the effect of accomplishing what I'm looking for, as a very small modification of what you've already implemented. -- Quuxplusone ( talk) 17:41, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
Keep? Discard?+1 for 'keep'. -- Michael Bednarek ( talk) 03:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
I have to think that, for metadata purposes, it would be much cleaner to do this:
{{cite journal |last=Merkelbach |first=Reinhold |author-link=de:Reinhold Merkelbach |title=Zwei neue orphisch-dionysische Totenpässe |lang=de |journal=Zeitschrift für Papyrologie und Epigraphik |number=76 |date=1989 |pages=15–16 |url= https://www.jstor.org/stable/20187001}}
But for some reason this is mis-rendered, presumably due to some questionably desirable pre-filtering of the value of |author-link=
:
{{
cite journal}}
: Check |author-link=
value (
help)This:
{{cite journal |last=Merkelbach |first=Reinhold |author-mask=[[de:Reinhold Merkelbach|Merkelbach, Reinhold]] |title=Zwei neue orphisch-dionysische Totenpässe |lang=de |journal=Zeitschrift für Papyrologie und Epigraphik |number=76 |date=1989 |pages=15–16 |url= https://www.jstor.org/stable/20187001}}
also fails:
{{
cite journal}}
: Check |author-mask=
value (
help)Ideally, I would think |author-link=
would be the way to do this, and that it would detect the canonical other-project prefixes (mostly language codes), and do {{
ILL}}
-style stuff. Even if that's too much work, then just not barfing on a xx:
language-code prefix would be good, even if does no extra things borrowed from {{ILL}}
and just builds the link the way doing a bare [[de:Reinhold Merkelbach|Merkelbach, Reinhold]]
works outside the template:
Merkelbach, Reinhold. —
SMcCandlish
☏
¢ 😼
11:21, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
[[de:Reinhold Merkelbach|Merkelbach, Reinhold]]
→
Merkelbach, Reinhold|author=
parameter or uses the |author-link=
parameter; contributor, editor, etc links similarly suppressed.In a conversation at
Template talk:Internet Archive#Registration required parameter it was pointed out that {{
Cite book}} does not produce an external link indicator for a title URL if |url-access=
is specified:
What's the rationale? -- Michael Bednarek ( talk) 14:26, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
https://example.com/document.pdf A PDF Document
→
A PDF Document
The redirect
Wikipedia:Lua cites has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 July 8 § Wikipedia:Lua cites until a consensus is reached.
Nickps (
talk)
13:48, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
Module:Citation has been
nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at
the entry on the Templates for discussion page.
Nickps (
talk)
16:01, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
"Newsroom" (or "newsroom", "News-room", "news-room", "News Room", "News room", "news room"). I've encounted this in |last=
at least twice in the last month or so. Might need to flag "News" by itself, too, though I guess it's conceivable for someone to be named something like "Janet News". I know for a fact that Room is an extant surname. —
SMcCandlish
☏
¢ 😼
11:01, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
|last=
and was a bit surprised it's not considered a generic name. An insource:
search yielded around 1000 hits, including maybe 30% false positives because I didn't want to pound the servers with a regex to escape the =
. A quick scroll through the first 500 results showed a single valid usage as a surname, at
Ziphosuchia, with the balance of true positives consisting of publishing companies misparsed by Citoid and pals.
Folly Mox (
talk)
11:24, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
Company
or company
as whole values. If someone cares to check the results of
this search if may be possible to loosen the restriction so that the test finds names that include Company
or company
. Corporate authors are allowed so I don't think that we can error when a name simply includes Company
or company
.|last=Company
, without involving substring matching.
Folly Mox (
talk)
21:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
insource:"last Company first"
now returns only around 350 matches, although of course it misses cases where the parameters are in a different order. The one author we cite whose actual human surname is "Company" is cited in at least three articles as it turns out, the other two being
Ischyrochampsa and
Wanosuchus (I note to myself for future double parentheses).
Folly Mox (
talk)
00:18, 18 July 2024 (UTC)|lastn=
or |authorn=
parameters with values that begin News
or news
. When I ran that search, I found: Newsby, Newsinger, Newsom, Newsome, Newstead, Newsum among the first 20 results; some of them multiple times. So our generic name search is limited to finding only News
or news
as whole values to avoid false positives.Newsroom
and newsroom
seems worthwhile; the others, not.|lastn=Bureau
or |authorn=Bureau
. This search fund about
8300 articles where the assigned value begins with Bureau
. Of those about
6680 hold only the word Bureau
. There are authors whose surname is Bureau
.bureau
and company
as whole values; added test for the various forms of newsroom
named in the OP where the word(s) may appear anywhere in the parameter value:
{{cite book/new |title=Title |last=Bureau}}
→ Bureau. Title. {{
cite book}}
: |last=
has generic name (
help){{cite book/new |title=Title |last=Bureau}}
→ Bureau drawer. Title.{{cite book/new |title=Title |last=Company}}
→ Company. Title. {{
cite book}}
: |last=
has generic name (
help){{cite book/new |title=Title |last=Company}}
→ Mega Huge Company. Title.{{cite book/new |title=Title |last=Newsroom}}
→ Newsroom. Title. {{
cite book}}
: |last=
has generic name (
help){{cite book/new |title=Title |last=News room}}
→ News room. Title. {{
cite book}}
: |last=
has generic name (
help){{cite book/new |title=Title |last=News-room}}
→ News-room. Title. {{
cite book}}
: |last=
has generic name (
help){{cite book/new |title=Title |last=The News Room}}
→ The News Room. Title. {{
cite book}}
: |last=
has generic name (
help)Desk
whole word:
Group
and Limited
both whole word:
{{cite book/new |title=Title |last=Group}}
→ Group. Title. {{
cite book}}
: |last=
has generic name (
help){{cite book/new |title=Title |last=Group photo}}
→ Group photo. Title.{{cite book/new |title=Title |last=Limited}}
→ Limited. Title. {{
cite book}}
: |last=
has generic name (
help){{cite book/new |title=Title |last=Limited availability}}
→ Limited availability. Title.correspondent
as the only entry in an author field. Currently 515 occurances.
Keith D (
talk)
10:33, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
correspondent
in |authorn=
or |lastn=
:Cite paper redirects to Cite journal. What should be done when the paper in question is a white paper published by a manufacturer, but not part of a journal, and not one of a clear series? It's more of a technical backgrounder on their significant invention. Andy Dingley ( talk) 13:50, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
|series=
. If this is about
Paxman Hi-Dyne engines, I'd probably go with {{
Cite web}}, since the reproduction of the original via Richard Carr's Paxman History Pages is a human conversion to HTML and the original source
is not what was consulted.
Folly Mox (
talk)
14:39, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
|type=White paper
?
Remsense
诉
15:42, 14 July 2024 (UTC)but if it's online and you don't need specific page numbersDo you mean to suggest that
{{
cite web}}
does not support the pagination parameters? If you do then you are mistook:
Some web servers refuse access as a way of avoiding having to respect the GDPR. This is especially the case for some US-based servers - presumably the idea that ordinary people might have the right to privacy is too radical to some newspapers. See this example for an archiver, in which case the archiver was presumably a server located outside of the US. Maybe there are similar cases for some Russian and Chinese servers that refuse access to people who can't be tracked.
Our current option limited for url-access for {{
web cite}} gives the mouseover text Free access subject to limited trial, subscription normally required
, which is misleading for web servers that require privacy violation. The alternatives registration and subscription are misleading for this case too.
We need to either:
Access forbidden to some geographical locations; or
Free access in some cases.
This will require an extension or correction (respectively) to
['registration'] = {class='id-lock-registration', title='Free registration required'}, ['limited'] = {class='id-lock-limited', title='Free access subject to limited trial, subscription normally required'}, ['subscription'] = {class='id-lock-subscription', title='Paid subscription required'},
in Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration by someone with editing access. Boud ( talk) 11:35, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
Possibly related discussions:
Neither of these seem to mention the geo-related access-only-with-privacy-violation issue. The GDPR officially became active in 2018 and my feeling is that US geo restrictions were implemented by some US newspapers quite rapidly. But it seems like this issue hasn't been discussed earlier. Boud ( talk) 11:45, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
{{
cite web}}
: |author1=
has numeric name (
help)The |author1=34
generates a red message. This is how the author signs their name, "34", and the name of the work is 34Questions. Is there a way to express this without a red message? --
Green
C
23:08, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
{{cite av media |author1=((34)) |title=Lane Rasberry |url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmhsqYsvz-I |publisher=34Questions |via=YouTube |language=en |date=19 September 2021}}
This would cover DOI patterns
Is is possible to implement those? Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 02:44, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
|doi-access=free
and the doi registrant is not listed as always free. The test for always-free dois does not suffer from this because the free-registrant table is converted from a sequence to an associative array (only occurs once per article rendering). Looking up a doi registrant in the array is quick.|doi-access=free
. And with ~7000 articles citing MNRAS, it's extremely inefficient to do Citation bot runs in the hopes of catching stragglers.
Headbomb {
t ·
c ·
p ·
b}
12:24, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
10.registrant/
so in regex: registrant = 10\.([^\/]+)\/
. To determine if that registrant is free-to-read, we simply index into the known-free associative array: is_free = known_free_doi_registrants_t[registrant]
.it's rather trivial to match those (e.g. 10\.1093\/mnras). True, but every doi in the article must be tested like that. And if not found, we then have to test every doi in the article with
10\.1111\/j\.1365-2966
. And if not found, we then have to test every doi in the article with 10\.1046\/j\.1365-8711
.local extended_registrants_t = { -- known free registrants identifiable by the doi suffix incipit
'1046' = {'j.1365-8711'}, -- MNRAS
'1093' = {'mnras'}, -- MNRAS
'1111' = {'j.1365-2966'}, -- MNRAS
}
1234
not a known registrant and not an extended registrant no further testing required. Registrant 5320
is a known free-to-read registrant so if no |doi-access=free
add the maint cat. Registrant 1093
is an extended registrant so for each value in its associated sequence, do a string find for that value. If found and no |doi-access=free
add the maint cat. Still slower but not so bad as I was thinking it would be.{{cite journal/new |title=Title |journal=Journal |doi=10.1093/mnras/summat}}
{{
cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (
link){{cite journal/new |title=Title |journal=Journal |doi=10.1111/j.1365-2966.summat}}
{{
cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (
link){{cite journal/new |title=Title |journal=Journal |doi=10.1046/j.1365-8711.summat}}
{{
cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (
link)I request making parameter access-date to be used if there is a DOI or a PMID. Currently an error appears with an access date parameter without a URL, meaning the "|access-date=2015-02-11" part has to be in an HTML comment outside of the template (cf., inter alia, Desmarestiales).
Having no need for a URL for an access date to be used helps when one uses a book (or a book chapter, if the book is there but some chapters are not) or a journal article that is not accessible online, for it was not uploaded.
An alternative solution would be to have a URL or a DOI, or a HDL, or a PMCID, or a PMID to be required to make the access date able to be used. Alfa-ketosav ( talk) 08:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
|access-date=
is intended only for sources whose content is likely to change over time, so people can locate the cited version in archives. Stable identifiers point to content that doesn't change. What do you feel the benefit is to adding this datum to stable sources?
Folly Mox (
talk)
10:55, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
Editor Uzume, where is the discussion about these changes?
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 11:23, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
https://www.worldcat.org/oclc/
can easily be read by humans as an OCLC identifier url; https://search.worldcat.org/title/
cannot.{{
OCLC}}
at the
creation of that template (http://worldcat.org/oclc/
)//www.worldcat.org/oclc/
)https://worldcat.org/oclc/
){{OCLC search link|22239204}}
→
22239204 (and yes, @
Folly Mox the template is called "OCLC search link" so it is a search), then that page has a button for sharing a link to the record and from there, an item entitled "Copy link" which presumably is the link WorldCat recommends people use. And that yields:
https://search.worldcat.org/en/title/22239204, providing the link prefix of https://search.worldcat.org/en/title/
before the identifier to be linked to. So, perhaps I failed to get the URL correct and did not specify the "en" English UI (I tested and links like
https://search.worldcat.org/ja/title/22239204 link to the same record with a Japanese UI). Please feel free to update the link prefixes appropriately. Incidentally, that very same record also has a "show more information" link that provides more information and within that it links to the "Online version" of the represented item. That link points to
https://search.worldcat.org/search?q=no:701649298 providing a means to get to items via their search query. Perhaps you'd prefer that link prefix as https://search.worldcat.org/search?q=no:
for OCLC searches directly aligns with the link prefix https://search.worldcat.org/search?q=n2:
for ISSN searches. —
Uzume (
talk)
21:35, 25 July 2024 (UTC)search
. Jmo.
Folly Mox (
talk)
14:17, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
search.worldcat.org
and OCLC. I don't feel particularly strongly about this, and have no opinion whatsoever about the ISSN bits, since I rarely include them and never click through on them.
Folly Mox (
talk)
22:10, 25 July 2024 (UTC)I wanted to cite this:
http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/documents/Research/RAF-Historical-Society-Journals/Journal-11-Sir%20Frank-Cooper-on-Air-Force-Policy-in-the-1950s-1960s.pdf ("THE PROCEEDINGS OF THE ROYAL AIR FORCE HISTORICAL SOCIETY, Issue No 11"), but {{
cite proceedings}}
ignores the |issue=
parameter. The only supported parameter seems to be |volume=
, but it unconditionally adds "Vol." and complains "|volume= has extra text" about anything that is not a plain digital number. Can the proper output be achieved using currently existing templates, or {{cite proceedings}}
needs to be modified (then please do)? —
Mikhail Ryazanov (
talk)
18:10, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
{{
cite journal}}
requires both |title=
and |journal=
, but I need to cite the whole publication. And it's not a journal issue but really proceedings from their
symposium (which "in modern usage, [means] an academic conference or meeting, such as a scientific conference"). —
Mikhail Ryazanov (
talk)
21:06, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
{{
cite proceedings}}
is a redirect to {{
cite conference}}
. {{cite conference}}
is screwy (because no one has ever complained enough?). It will support |issue=
if it also contains |journal=
:
{{cite proceedings |title=Title |journal=Journal |volume=XX |issue=4 |conference=Conference}}
|title=
should not be italicized.Is there a way to display the title of a work in quotes rather than italics when using {{ Cite AV media}}? I can't figure out a way to change the default italic formatting. Lord Bolingbroke ( talk) 01:32, 28 July 2024 (UTC)