This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 75 | ← | Archive 79 | Archive 80 | Archive 81 | Archive 82 | Archive 83 | → | Archive 85 |
Oughtn't we to have |subject-firstn=
and |subject-lastn=
? These would normally be used in {{
cite interview}}
and which does support |interviewer-firstn=
and |interviewer-lastn=
. |subjectn=
is an alias of |authorn=
.
I don't recall discussing this anywhere and a quick search of the archives seems to indicate that the topic has never been raised. Any reason why we aren't (shouldn't be) supporting these?
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 16:43, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
Which is the canonical form? The docs seem to be self-contradictory. AManWithNoPlan ( talk) 22:03, 6 December 2021 (UTC)
|orig-date=
is the canonical form.|orig-year=
in all the big lists of possible parameters.
AManWithNoPlan (
talk) 15:35, 7 December 2021 (UTC)Look for the docs in https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Special:Search&limit=500&offset=0&ns10=1&search=insource%3A%22orig-year%22&searchToken=2w083e4dr0dw1zo9x62k1hcsi AManWithNoPlan ( talk) 15:37, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
I just modified a cite at HMS Sheffield (D80) (my bold additions):
The sinking of Sheffield is sometimes blamed on a superstructure made wholly or partially from aluminium, the melting point and ignition temperature of which are significantly lower than those of steel. However, this is incorrect as Sheffield's superstructure was made entirely of steel. [1]
References
- ^ Blomquist, John E. (3 July 1982). "Letter to the Editor: Aluminum's Not to Blame For Warship Loss". New York Times. Retrieved 16 June 2015.
John E. Blomquist, President, Reynolds Aluminum, Richmond, Va.
The documentation here does not properly cover letters to the editor from notable public figures. This is a bit annoying, because unlike most instance of cite news, it would make sense to annotate the professional association of the letter writer, in this case: President of Vested to the Hilt, Inc.
I skirted the issue by quoting his own sign-off attribution from the article itself. Felt a bit dirty, but it worked for me. In the absence of better documentation here, I fear it's the best you can hope for. — MaxEnt 20:07, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
The sinking of Sheffield is sometimes blamed on a superstructure made wholly or partially from aluminium, the melting point and ignition temperature of which are significantly lower than those of steel. However, this is incorrect as Sheffield's superstructure was made entirely of steel. [1]
References
- ^ Blomquist, John E. (3 July 1982). "Aluminum's Not to Blame For Warship Loss". Letters to the Editor. New York Times. Retrieved 16 June 2015. Signed "John E. Blomquist, President, Reynolds Aluminum, Richmond, Va."
|department=
for {{
cite news}}. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 20:32, 9 December 2021 (UTC)I cannot seem to find a way to add authors of prefaces or forewords. According to the documentation at
Template:Cite book, this is done by the parameters contribution
, contributor-last
and contributor-first
. However, those parameters do not seem to work and are not present in the Visual Editor's interface for
Template:Cite book.
Is there a bug is did I fail to understand how it is supposed to work?
Veverve (
talk) 17:40, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
{{cite book |title=Title |contribution=Foreword |last=Smith |first=CD |contributor-last=Jones |contributor-first=AB}}
|contribution=
, |contributor=
/ |contributor-last=
, etc., is for. For instance, if you are citing John Smith's statement that "working with Jane Doe was a labor of love",
[1], you'd use the following citation:
{{Cite book |contributor-last=Smith |contributor-first=John |contribution=Forward |last=Doe |first=Jane |date=2021 |title=Fake Book I Made Up }}
References
Ward, Gary L.; Persson, Bertil; Bain, Alan, eds. (1990). "Brown, Daniel Quilter".
Independent Bishops: An International Directory. Apogee Books. p. 63.
ISBN
978-1-55888-307-9. {{
cite book}}
: |contributor=
requires |author=
(
help); |contributor=
requires |contribution=
(
help); More than one of |contribution=
and |chapter=
specified (
help)
.
Veverve (
talk) 18:22, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
|chapter=Brown, Daniel Quilter
|contribution=Preface
|contribution=
and |chapter=
specified error message. Because cs1|2 chose |chapter=
, it ignores |contribution=
. Because you wrote:
|contributor-last=J. Gordon |contributor-first=Melton
|contribution=
(which is required for any of the |contributor=
parameters), cs1|2 emits the |contributor=
requires |contribution=
error message. Because there is no |author=
(or |last=
) parameter (which is required when using any of the |contributor=
parameters, cs1|2 emits the |contributor=
requires |author=
error message.{{
cite book}}
template. If you want to cite both the chapter "Brown, Daniel Quilter" and the "Preface", you must do so separately. And, since this source appears to be more of an encyclopedia than a book with chapters (to me, "Brown, Daniel Quilter" 'feels' more like an encyclopedia entry) then, for that entry, perhaps this:
{{Cite encyclopedia |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=EpXjAAAAMAAJ&q= |encyclopedia=Independent Bishops: An International Directory |date=1990 |publisher=Apogee Books |isbn=978-1-55888-307-9 |editor-last=Ward |editor-first=Gary L. |page=63 |language=en |entry=Brown, Daniel Quilter |editor-last2=Persson |editor-first2=Bertil |editor-last3=Bain |editor-first3=Alan}}
{{Cite encyclopedia |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=EpXjAAAAMAAJ&q= |encyclopedia=Independent Bishops: An International Directory |date=1990 |publisher=Apogee Books |isbn=978-1-55888-307-9 |editor-last=Ward |editor-first=Gary L. |page=63 |language=en |section=Preface |editor-last2=Persson |editor-first2=Bertil |editor-last3=Bain |editor-first3=Alan}}
|contribution=
{{
cite encyclopedia}}
: |contributor=
ignored (
help)|contribution=
{{
cite encyclopedia}}
appears to be the best choice here.If you are including "Preface" in the citation merely because the work has a preface, don't do that.I think it is quite relevant to indicate if there is a preface to a work, which is why I tried to indicate it. It is especially important in this case, as J. Gordon Melton is a well respected encyclopedia editor in the religious field. Veverve ( talk) 19:08, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
J. Gordon Melton is a well respected encyclopedia editor. When/if text at Daniel Q. Brown is supported by Melton's preface, then cite Melton separately.
|others=Preface by
J. Gordon Melton
. I do not recommend it because that is just so much extraneous text that doesn't aid a reader in locating a copy of the source.|contribution=
and related parameters exist in support of citing material in the text. Think of it this way: if articles needed to cite a Preface or Forward of a work, how would they do so, given the current crop of {{Cite xxx}} templates, if the templates worked the way you're trying to make them work? The answer is, they couldn't. That's what |citation=
|contribution=
et. al provide: a way to cite material that's not part of the main body of the work.This ... template is used to create citations for articles or chapters in edited collections such as encyclopedias and dictionaries, but more generally any book or book series containing individual sections or chapters written by various authors, and put together by one or more editors.
|mode=cs2
as an argument to suppress the final stop/period that the {{
Cite encyclopedia}} template normally provides:
{{Cite encyclopedia |mode=cs2 |title=Brown, Daniel Quilter |encyclopedia=Independent Bishops: An International Directory |date=1990 |publisher=Apogee Books |isbn=978-1-55888-307-9 |editor-last=Ward |editor-first=Gary L. |pages=63 |editor-last2=Persson |editor-first2=Bertil |editor-last3=Bain |editor-first3=Alan |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=EpXjAAAAMAAJ&q= }}, with Preface by [[J. Gordon Melton]].
|ref=none
to the {{Cite encyclopedia}} template to suppress the 'Harv warning' in this example. If you are using CITEREFs / reference templates ({{
sfn}}, {{
harvnb}}, etc.), then you don't need the |ref=none
parameter to the Cite template. —
sbb (
talk) 02:57, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
|citation=
|mode=cs2
also switches the element separator from dot to comma and changes some capitalization so templates with that parameter/value pair are stylistically different from adjacent cs1 templates. This can cause knickers to twist. Better perhaps is to use |postscript=none
or |postscript=,
(or other single punctuation character).|citation=
mistake (I meant to say |contribution=
, but I had {{
Citation}} on my mind from the previous sentence). Edited with |mode=cs2
, but I forgot it had other effects besides just final punctuation. Definitely agree, I shouldn't recommend CS1/CS2 mode switching; people go to a lot of effort to get articles self-consistent. Thanks. —
sbb (
talk) 18:45, 18 December 2021 (UTC)I am trying to add the following:
Melton, J. Gordon (2009). "Chapter 2 - Western Liturgical Family, Part I: The Western Catholic Tradition".
Hugh George de Willmott Newman. Melton's encyclopedia of American religions (8th ed.). Detroit: Gale Cengage Learning. p. 84.
ISBN
978-0-7876-9696-2.
However, the name of the entry ("Hugh George de Willmott Newman") is italicised. The only I can get the entry name to be between quotation marks is by removing or emptying the chapter parameter. Is there any way I could have something like ('Chapter 2 - Western Liturgical Family, Part I: The Western Catholic Tradition')
to be displayed so that I can indicate clearly the name of the entry while also indicating the name of the chapter the entry is in?
Veverve (
talk) 16:05, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
|chapter=
, |title=
); encyclopedias, journals, and magazines, it's (|title=
, |encyclopedia=
), (|title=
, |journal=
), and (|title=
, |magazine=
).{{
cite encyclopedia}}
to some extent:
{{Cite encyclopedia |entry=Hugh George de Willmott Newman |encyclopedia=Melton's encyclopedia of American religions |publisher=Gale Cengage Learning |url=http://archive.org/details/meltonsencyclope0008melt |last=Melton |first=J. Gordon |date=2009 |publication-place=Detroit |edition=8th |page=84 |isbn=978-0-7876-9696-2 |title=''Chapter 2 - Western Liturgical Family, Part I: The Western Catholic Tradition''}}
|entry=
) will not be available to readers who consume cs1|2 citations by way of the metadata. Do not add quote marks to |title=
because they are not stripped from the value when it is made part of the metadata.I want to insure the reader will be able to find the entry I pointed to in the most recent editions in the future. This is contrary to WP:SAYWHERE. We really can't future-proof citations. In some future version of Melton's, the entry may no-longer support the text at en.wiki; the chapter organization may change; other stuff may change... but the 2009 edition does support the en.wiki text so that is how the citation should be constructed. Were it me, I would write:
{{Cite encyclopedia |entry=Hugh George de Willmott Newman |entry-url=https://archive.org/details/meltonsencyclope0008melt/page/84/mode/2up |encyclopedia=Melton's encyclopedia of American religions |publisher=Gale Cengage Learning |url=http://archive.org/details/meltonsencyclope0008melt |url-access=registration |last=Melton |first=J. Gordon |date=2009 |location=Detroit |edition=8th |page=84 |isbn=978-0-7876-9696-2}}
|department=
:
|department=
was valid for {{
Cite encyclopedia}}. I only use |department=
with {{
Cite newspaper}} or {{
Cite magazine}} where the entry is something like an obituary, public notices, standing "letter from the editor", etc. —
sbb (
talk) 23:40, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
|at=
{{Cite encyclopedia |chapter=Chapter 2 - Western Liturgical Family, Part I: The Western Catholic Tradition |encyclopedia=Melton's encyclopedia of American religions |publisher=Gale Cengage Learning |url=http://archive.org/details/meltonsencyclope0008melt |url-access=registration |last=Melton |first=J. Gordon |date=2009 |location=Detroit |edition=8th |at=p. [https://archive.org/details/meltonsencyclope0008melt/page/84/mode/2up 84: Hugh George de Willmott Newman] |isbn=978-0-7876-9696-2}}
Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration has local date information along with English language date information. This is a creating problem for Telugu Wikipedia users, as everytime this module is refreshed from enwikipedia, as part of import of Templates that use this module, the Telugu language information is getting overwritten. Then a manual update of Telugu language language dates is required to avoid check date errors being shown for Telugu dates. I request the maintainers to internationalise that portion. Arjunaraoc ( talk) 00:30, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
Can someone please add 'quote-p' and 'quote-pp' as aliases of 'quote-page' and 'quote-pages' respectively? -- PK2 ( talk) 05:06, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
Tang, Jian; Oka, Takeshi (1999). "Infrared spectroscopy of H3O+: the v1 fundamental band".
Journal of Molecular Spectroscopy. 196 (1): 120–130.
Bibcode:
1999JMoSp.196..120T.
doi:
10.1006/jmsp.1999.7844.
PMID
10361062. {{
cite journal}}
: templatestyles stripmarker in |title=
at position 26 (
help)
There's no issue in this citation. That error message needs to be suppressed. Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 18:23, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
{{
Su}}
has been marked with {{
COinS safe|n}}
since
this edit 18 January 2015. {{COinS safe}}
has been around since 18 May 2012 (
Special:Permalink/493117278). The COinS section of the cs1|2 template documentation was created 12 January 2012 (
Special:Permalink/470891851) and incorporated at
this edit (11 January 2012). Yeah, the timing seems a little odd... Still, we have discouraged the use of templates in cs1|2 parameters for nearly a decade now.<sub>...</sub>
and <sup>...</sup>
tags, like this:
|title=
. One common example is {{
en dash}}. For more, you can turn to the imaginary list documenting such templates that do not blame the victims.
65.88.88.91 (
talk) 19:36, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
This should bypass the error. Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 19:49, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
{{
cite journal}}
: templatestyles stripmarker in |title=
at position 26 (
help){{
cite journal}}
: templatestyles stripmarker in |title=
at position 26 (
help)Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 19:50, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
{{
H3O+}}
template is not in the sandbox template (it was replaced with H<sub>3</sub>O<sup>+</sup>
) so, of course, the 'fix' appeared to work.<chem>...</chem>
markup is like <math>...</math>
markup: the rendering that is visible is an image:
<chem>H3O+</chem>
<chem>...</chem>
markup in the same way that we handle <math>...</math>
markup – some sort of error message in the metadata instead of a non-sensical stripmarker. Discussion is appropriate, I think.<chem>...</chem>
is like <math>...</math>
, then it should be handled like math. The revert is nonsensical even if it didn't fix the above issue.
Headbomb {
t ·
c ·
p ·
b} 21:31, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
<chem>...</chem>
), and
Template:Chem's documentation includes {{
COinS safe|n}}
, with a note stating that <chem>...</chem>
is an alternative to {{
chem}}.
GoingBatty (
talk) 23:21, 29 December 2021 (UTC){{
cite journal}}
: templatestyles stripmarker in |title=
at position 26 (
help){{
cite journal}}
: templatestyles stripmarker in |title=
at position 26 (
help)At Carnot cycle we want to reference https://www.gutenberg.org/files/50880/50880-pdf.pdf, specifically we want equations 39, 40 and 65 in sections §90 and §137. I'm not sure of the best way to do this. Stepho talk 00:59, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
|contribution=Equations 39, 40, and 65 in Sections 90 and 137
within the citation template. Doing it that way has the advantage that you can still specify pages as a separate parameter rather than needing to format the page numbers as part of the |at=
parameter, and that you can provide a direct link to the starting page of the contribution (if you're using a source like archive.org or Google books that provides such links) in the |contribution-url=
parameter. —
David Eppstein (
talk) 01:59, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
"If the value is correct and larger than the currently configured limit of 8700000, please report this at Help talk:Citation Style 1, so that the limit can be updated."
-- Ben Best: Talk 21:32, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
access-date
for archived pages?For citations that are archived from the very start (i.e. cited only after the original website has lapsed), what should access-date
in
Template:Cite web contain: the last time the writer successfully accessed the original URL, or the last time the writer successfully accessed the archived URL? The documentation defines the parameter as “[t]he full date when the original URL was accessed” – so should the parameter perhaps not be present at all in that case?
Obskyr (
talk) 04:59, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
|archive-date=
will suffice in this case, obviously as long as it is later than the event date.
65.88.88.57 (
talk) 20:37, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
|access-date=
is the date that the web page at the original URL was used to verify the content in our article, and |date=
is the date that this original web page was published; |archive-date=
is the date that Wayback Machine (or whoever) made an archive copy of the web page concerned. --
Redrose64 🌹 (
talk) 21:01, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
|archive-date=
is important. There may be several snapshots on that date, but CS1 currently does not provide snapshot resolution. But the original question was about the access date of the archive. To answer this properly, we have to know how each service handles its archives. Empirically, most people accept archives as static, regardless of the service provider.
65.88.88.201 (
talk) 14:50, 5 January 2022 (UTC)Given that a noted journalist or academic that authored the text thats being referenced will themselves be able to referenced, could we store their wikidata id (as well the first and surname) which in turn stores their various academic ID's (such as ORCID) and popularist ID's (such as twiter), perhaps linking to reasonator to make it readable? It would also solve the the variation in their names, for example they may use a formal version of their name in academic papers and casual for something in the popular press as well varations whether they use "special characters" in their name
The same could be used for the publicaton
So for example
Pöhls, Jan-Hendrik. "A new approach finds materials that can turn waste heat into electricity". The Conversation. Retrieved 2022-01-05.
Would become something like
Pöhls, Jan-Hendrik . "A new approach finds materials that can turn waste heat into electricity". The Conversation . Retrieved 2022-01-05.
Back ache ( talk) 15:05, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
|author-link=
and |work=
parameters to provide links to articles about the authors and publications, create redirects for variations in their names, and add ID links in the External links section of those articles. Happy editing!
GoingBatty (
talk) 16:00, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
OPPOSE Wikidata author IDs do not belong in citations. This is complete clutter. The only thing that might belong in a citation is the Wikidata QID for the article/chapter/book being cited, if the article/chapter/book has a corresponding Wikidata entry. Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 12:57, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Module:Citation/CS1/Suggestions has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Could somebody add "archive-link" (correct to " archive-url)? Thanks in advance. Leomk0403 ( Don't shout here, Shout here!) 09:25, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
|archive-link=
as an alias to |archive-url=
, I would say that we ought not do that. link
can be taken to mean more than just a url (a
wikilink is a link...) Editors know and understand |archive-url=
so I see no benefit to adding |archive-link=
as an alias.The guidance of the CS1 help page states that 'Sources are at liberty to use other ways of expressing dates, such as "spring/summer" or a date in a religious calendar; editors should report the date as expressed by the source.' However, the templates as implemented do not appear to respect this, as the date errors are not suppressable. How should this be addressed? -- Paul_012 ( talk) 11:25, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
In cases where the date as expressed in the source is not compatible with the template software, the citation should be created without using a template.– Jonesey95 ( talk) 13:25, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
This is not directly related to CS1, but it is something to be aware of. This project (
"About Memento" link) is basically a meta-archive whose protocol (
RFC 7089) includes logic to automatically access the optimal version of an archived page among different archives. Perhaps more importantly for CS1, there is no need for |archive-url=
; the built-in logic in the Memento protocol parses the original URL and determines its status, and whether an archived version exists, which is then served transparently to the user. The current drawback is that the Memento protocol has to be called via a browser extension. It is conceivable that it may become a built-in feature. I am not aware of any Wikipedia template/script that applies this protocol currently.
65.88.88.62 (
talk) 16:06, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
{{cite journal}}
accepts both year and date, but the former is discouraged. Since date can accept day, month, and year; this creates inconsistency in the references. I understand the full date is necessary for some references such as news articles, but it is really superfluous for scholarly journals. I suggest encouraging date=YYYY for journal references for the following reasons: (i) In scholarly referencing, the full date of publication is (almost) never used for journal articles. (ii) Full date of publication is technically useful for scholarly articles, as the dates of submission, acceptance, online publication, print publication are months apart in the best-case scenario. (iii) The guide says it is useful if an author publishes several articles in the same year, but Wikipedia references are numbered not sorted by authors' names in Chicago style. Even in the latter, YYYYa,b,c is used since there is no guarantee that one author has not several articles in the same month.
My suggestion is not to change anything but to encourage in the referencing guide using the year of publication. 589q ( talk) 02:25, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
|date=
documentation suggests several different ways to input the date. Presumably, the source can be found whether the date is input as year only or as a more complete date. However it is best to input the date the way you see it in the publication itself, again because this is how the source will be found faster when one searches for it by date. The consistency proposition satisfies aesthetics but may hamper/delay discovery. In an inherently unreliable project like Wikipedia, ease of source discovery and therefore of verification is important. Consistency regarding dates is recommended where it will not affect discovery. And may I repeat that the idea that the average reader will see a citation and immediately click on an otherwise cryptic identifier is not a useful assumption, and imo highly unlikely.
65.88.88.68 (
talk) 17:06, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
Almost everyone is in favor of the month of publication. I still believe an article is looked up by its year, volume, and page number if DOI is not available. I just wonder if the month of publication is such useful, why is there no petition to add the missing date of publication in the references. I come to my second reasoning that the date of publication is misleading.
Let me clarify this through an example. How do you cite this article https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/jacs.1c08484? At the top of the page, it is written: Publication Date:November 28, 2021, but this article belongs to volume 143, issue 49 (December 15, 2021). Nowhere on the page, you can find December 15, 2021 unless you go to the issue page.
You may wonder what if the publication year is different from the issue. Here is an example: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/jacs.0c10943 Publication Date:December 15, 2020 belongs to volume 143, issue 1 (January 13, 2021). At the top of the page, it is clearly stated Cite this: J. Am. Chem. Soc. 2021, 143, 1, 5–16
The problem is: for most publishers, the publication date is the date of (online) publication of the article, but the publication year is of the release of the whole issue. The latter must be used for citation. Usually, the latter is included in the former, but not necessarily (the second example I gave). 589q ( talk) 03:26, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
|date=
, for the date printed on the cover; and |publication-date=
for the date that it became available to subscribers and other potential purchasers. These two need not be the same, see
Template:Cite journal#csdoc_date and
Template:Cite journal#csdoc_publication-date. For example:
As discussed
above, TemplateStyles tags (or rather their strip markers) flag up as an error:
"Wikipedia". {{
cite web}}
: templatestyles stripmarker in |title=
at position 1 (
help). What exactly is the purpose of this? It makes it much more difficult for template editors to add TemplateStyles to any inline template, as there's a risk that someone has used that template in a citation and citations will then start issuing errors.
If it's a risk of corrupting COinS, why not just silently strip it from machine-readable parts of the output? By their nature the TemplateStyles strip markers only need to appear once to work. If even having it inside the displayed title (or wherever) is problematic, then it could be moved from there to before the rest of the citation. User:GKFX talk 19:29, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
{{cite web|title={{smallcaps|Wikipedia}}|url=https://en.wikipedia.org}}
{{
smallcaps}}
has been processed is this:
?'"`UNIQ--templatestyles-00000051-QINU`"'?<span class="smallcaps">Wikipedia</span>
|title=
, is 'Wikipedia'; the rest is extraneous junk that does not belong in |title=
.|id=
or |quote=
, they are ignored because those parameter values are not made part of the citation's metadata. Math strip markers are removed from the metadata and replaced with 'MATH RENDER ERROR' message because Scribunto no longer allows modules to fetch the content of math strip markers. A math strip marker remains in the rendered parameter value so that MediaWiki can replace it with an image of the equation. cs1|2 can fetch the content of nowiki strip markers so it does so when creating metadata. All other strip markers are considered erroneous.semi-readableis good enough. I asked that question because en.wiki should never be in the business of making-up 'standards' for anything especially when there are already extant standards in the outer world. We have
<chem>...</chem>
tags so presumably what goes inside those tags (apparently some form of LaTeX) is standardized markup. That is the markup-in-plain-text that should be used by {{
chem2}}
and supplied in the markup-in-span scheme so that readers who consume a cs1|2 template via its metadata can read and understand (because it is standardized) the markup that makes an equation in |title=
.{{
math}}
one such template that might use the scheme? And the templates that are used in it? What about nesting of one (or more) markup-in-span template inside another markup-in-span template? Are there other templates that might be suited to the scheme? If not, then perhaps it is not worth the effort to create and maintain the markup-in-span scheme. Styling templates like {{
smallcaps}}
have no reason to be included in the scheme because styling of cs1|2 citations is the responsibility of cs1|2.class=
attribute would be sufficient to turn off the stripmarker error.data-wiki-plaintext="HC≡CH"
would be more appropriate than putting it as document text in a span and then having to hide the span with CSS.
User:GKFX
talk 21:39, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
paper called "Properties of O2−2"to the journal for publication, wrote that, and other, equations using a method that guaranteed that the publisher would typeset it correctly. After all, that is all that
{{
chem2}}
and like templates are doing here. Some sort of mechanism is required to place all of the various parts of the equation in their proper positions. Is that something that generic word processors do these days? If not then what is the typesetting standard used by industry journals? Whatever that standard is, that should be the standard used at en.wiki. If there is no such standard then, I suppose, en.wiki can do whatever it wants when it comes to typesetting chemistry equations. You don't like LaTeX with the mhchem library, suggest a better standard.
{{Chem2/sandbox}}
. That sandbox uses the class=
attribute. Were we to implement something like that, regardless of whether it uses class=
or data-whatever=
, cs1|2 would remove that attribute thing from its input parameter before rendering so no need to hide the span with CSS.
It is more difficult and time consuming to remove the rest of the junk that templates can add to a parameter value.This is not pertinent. Editors do not need templates to add junk to a parameter value, and the fact that it is indeed difficult to remove has nothing to do with this discussion. The main, longstanding issue is that COinS may interfere with legitimate citation editing. This is not new. A thorough search will discover complaints going back at least 12+ years, or ever since the introduction of the scheme in the defunct {{citation/core}}. Btw, the discussion on adding the metadata scheme (if memory serves, prompted by a request from Zotero-using editors) was minimal, as I recall. The problem is that COinS is based on OpenURL, which basically adds specific-content-location additions to a regular http address. Extraneous http artifacts will obviously generate unwanted results. It is incumbent on Wikipedia COinS to find a workable solution to that problem instead of limiting legitimate usage of templates that make editors' work easier. I've no idea what constituency of Wikipedia will agree to limit editors in favor of an external scheme, but it may be time to find out. Keeping also in mind that not all templates will generate COinS-based errors, which makes blanket statements about template use in citations somewhat arbitrary. Until Wikipedia COinS behaves, the suggestion of adding a switch to turn metadata off is an excellent one, and it should be implemented. 65.88.88.91 ( talk) 21:10, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
Hello. I think it would be a good idea to be able to add the Index Theologicus identifier to the templates the way the DOI and the JSTOR identifier are shown. For example, "IxTheo 158777335X" would be displayed with IxTheo hyperlinked and an URL at 158777335X linking to here; so it would look like: " IxTheo 158777335X". This would be useful for articles which do not have a DOI or a JSTOR identifier such as the one used in my example. What do you think? Veverve ( talk) 03:56, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
|id=
, possibly in combination with some formatting template (like exists today with {{
doi}}).
Izno (
talk) 07:30, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
Can we get a tracker for citations with hidden issue/number? such as d AManWithNoPlan ( talk) 12:10, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
Patrie, James (1982), The Genetic Relationship of the Ainu Language, Oceanic Linguistics Special Publications, University of Hawai'i Press, ISBN 978-0-8248-0724-5, JSTOR 20006692. One could argue that volume is the correct parameter. AManWithNoPlan ( talk) 21:03, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
|issue=
should be displayed in that citation; maybe that's the real problem (I really want to write "issue", but I am resisting the urge) here. There are workarounds, of course, like using {{
cite journal}} with |mode=cs2
, but there is no obvious way to know that a workaround is needed unless there is an error message or a tracking category. I would rather see |issue=
displayed in {{
citation}} in this situation, which would obviate the need for tracking. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 21:20, 15 January 2022 (UTC)|issue=
in the periodical templates. The above example looks like a book that is number 17 of the series. Converting to {{
cite journal}}
(or {{
citation}}
with |journal=
) will cause |series=
to be dropped from the metadata; it's only supported by book citations. At
jstor, the sequence number becomes part of the title so one might rewrite the above citation:
{{citation |surname=Patrie |given=James |title=No. 17. The Genetic Relationship of the Ainu Language |series=Oceanic Linguistics Special Publications |publisher=University of Hawai'i Press |year=1982 |isbn=978-0-8248-0724-5 |jstor=20006692 |postscript=.}}
{{citation |surname=Patrie |given=James |title=The Genetic Relationship of the Ainu Language |series=Oceanic Linguistics Special Publications, No. 17 |publisher=University of Hawai'i Press |year=1982 |isbn=978-0-8248-0724-5 |jstor=20006692 |postscript=.}}
|issue=
in book citation templates, we might want to treat them as we do 'ignored' |chapter=
(and aliases) parameters.
This search (times out) suggests that we might want to do that because it will help to catch other misuses of {{
cite book}}
.|volume=
not |issue=
. These are terms with specific, longstanding meaning in publishing and bibliography. A book series consists of volumes. Book series volumes however may or may not consist of issues. In periodicals, "series" has a different meaning, and periodical series volumes almost always consist of issues. In book series, "issue" is never classified (and therefore cited) without the enclosing volume. So "volume" is the necessary value. In periodical series, "volume" is never classified without the included issues. So "issue" is the necessary value. Instead of arbitrarily redefining longstanding practice that is unrelated to citations, ensure that the citation system conforms, and the documentation is clear regarding how and why. This is a simple error, that is made more complicated by the use of {{
citation}}, which does not explicitly signal the type of work to the editor.
68.173.76.118 (
talk) 01:54, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
|series=Oceanic Linguistics Special Publications
|volume=17
, but I can easily imagine that other editors would prefer to hue more closely to what the source actually says about its metadata. When they do, our templates should be prepared to handle it and do something reasonable rather than just dropping the number on the floor. —
David Eppstein (
talk) 02:10, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
The RFC on whether to update the CS1 modules has been closed as "There is support for most changes proposed, and they may be rolled out. There is support for most changes proposed, and they may be rolled out. There is also support for the idea that most typical changes to cs1/2 are uncontroversial and don't need to undergo routine VPR RfCs to be rolled out." The exception to the approved changes is this: "there is no consensus on removal of deprecated parameters in this discussion, and further discussion will be necessary to roll that part out."
The list of proposed changes at that RFC is copied here (from that page):
list of prospective changes
|
---|
changes in Module:Citation/CS1/sandbox
changes in Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration/sandbox
changes in Module:Citation/CS1/Whitelist/sandbox (last update 2021-05-25)
changes in Module:Citation/CS1/Date validation/sandbox
changes in Module:Citation/CS1/Identifiers/sandbox
changes in Module:Citation/CS1/Utilities/sandbox (last update 2021-01-09)
changes in Module:Citation/CS1/COinS/sandbox
changes in Module:Citation/CS1/sandbox/styles.css (last update 2021-01-09)
|
To me, it looks like the next step is to possibly restore the sandboxes to their state as of 28 November 2021 (I think; this is the original RFC posting date), then back out the removal of support for the deprecated parameters. I encourage editors here to look at this outcome as positive. Removal of long-deprecated parameters has been delayed, but that is not a big deal. We will get our first module update in at least half a year, with many updates and improvements. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 01:25, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
[removal of] support for previously deprecated parametersis only listed under ~/Configuration. Those parameters were listed above because support for them was withdrawn at this edit to Module:Citation/CS1/Whitelist (not by me). Removal of those parameters from ~/Configuration merely completes the process. Restoring them to ~/Configuration/sandbox will not make those parameters work again.|booktitle=
,|chapterurl=
,|episodelink=
,|mailinglist=
,|mapurl=
,|nopp=
,|publicationdate=
,|publicationplace=
,|serieslink=
,|transcripturl=
|chapterurl=
, |nopp=
, |publicationdate=
, and |publicationplace=
:
{{cite book |chapter=Chapter |chapterurl=http://www.example.com |title=Title |publicationdate=2022 |publicationplace=Who knows |pages=23–56 |nopp=yes}}
{{
cite book}}
: External link in |chapterurl=
(
help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl=
ignored (|chapter-url=
suggested) (
help); Unknown parameter |nopp=
ignored (|no-pp=
suggested) (
help); Unknown parameter |publicationdate=
ignored (|publication-date=
suggested) (
help); Unknown parameter |publicationplace=
ignored (|publication-place=
suggested) (
help)CS1 maint: location missing publisher (
link)So I think there is no consensus on removal of deprecated parameters in this discussion, and further discussion will be necessary to roll that part out.What kind of discussion? Another RfC? A discussion here on this page? Something else? Where?
|transcripturl=
switches back to deprecated:
{{cite episode/new |series=Series |transcript=Transcript |transcripturl=//example.com}}
{{
cite episode}}
: External link in |transcripturl=
(
help); Unknown parameter |transcripturl=
ignored (|transcript-url=
suggested) (
help){{cite book/new |chapter=Chapter |chapterurl=http://www.example.com |title=Title |publicationdate=2022 |publicationplace=Who knows |pages=23–56 |nopp=yes}}
{{
cite book}}
: External link in |chapterurl=
(
help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl=
ignored (|chapter-url=
suggested) (
help); Unknown parameter |nopp=
ignored (|no-pp=
suggested) (
help); Unknown parameter |publicationdate=
ignored (|publication-date=
suggested) (
help); Unknown parameter |publicationplace=
ignored (|publication-place=
suggested) (
help)CS1 maint: location missing publisher (
link)For the record: the modules were updated per the discussion above on 22 January 2022. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 00:14, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
Is there a valid reason? Does it need to be added to the aliases in the template to remove this error? The purpose of adding it as an alias here is to make easier to find, not to allow users to use as in the template. The RedBurn ( ϕ) 09:40, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
|citation=
has never been a cs1|2 parameter. I do not know what you mean by: The purpose of adding it as an alias here is to make easier to find, not to allow users to use as in the template.Clarify?
|page=
has an alias |p=
so
{{cite book |title=Title |page=123}}
{{cite book |title=Title |p=123}}
Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#RfC:_Block_reFill_tool_until_fixed -- Green C 21:58, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
To prevent these bogus errors
Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 14:49, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
It's featured in the examples but not documented. I'm not confident that I could properly do it, myself. Leotohill ( talk) 23:06, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
{{
cite thesis}}
and
Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration#L-315 as an alias of |publisher=
.Another case of the false positives, though this one might warrant discussions. I'm getting errors for uses of {{ cite map}} with a link in the "inset" parameter, which I thought to be valid. A few examples are at Interstate 90#References. Sounder Bruce 02:38, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
url
parameters (the only exception is |pages=
off the cuff).
Izno (
talk) 02:44, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
To prevent bogus errors in cases like
Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 14:13, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
An article I monitor has this passage:
A 2020 analysis of the schools that send the most students per capita to the highest-ranked U.S. medical, business, and law schools placed the college 10th for medical schools, 16th for business schools, and 10th for law schools. [1]
References
{{
cite book}}
: External link in |via=
(
help)
It started throwing an error message today because of the URLs in |via=
. I want to keep the URLs, as they are far more accessible than the book. But I don't see another place to put URLs to webpages that reproduce the content on three cited pages in a book. Is there a better way to structure this, or if not, is there a way to suppress the error message? {{u|
Sdkb}}
talk 21:16, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
|chapter=
also throws an error, since it's looking for me to use |chapter-url=
instead. Maybe I'll just turn it into three refs so I can do that. That'll also allow better archiving, which as GoingBatty pointed out is a concern for something with annual updates. Cheers, {{u|
Sdkb}}
talk 22:18, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
|via=
isn't currently supported. Could that be changed? {{u|
Sdkb}}
talk 22:01, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
|lay-*=
parameters, which were hacked on in similar fashion). If these are of value, they should be in separate citation templates so they can be fully described for the appropriate reader.
Izno (
talk) 23:05, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
Would it be considered valuable to convert surname/given to last/first on pages that contain a mix of both types. One of the tasks of citation bot has always been "harmonize" styles. Surname is used on a tiny fraction of a percent of pages compared to last/first. AManWithNoPlan ( talk) 13:40, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
|accessdate=
and its five remaining unhyphenated siblings. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 14:05, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
The documentaion for |cite journal=
in the TemplateData section indicates |page=
and |pages=
uses p. or pp. but this is not correct. Is there a way to get this to show as there is a |no-pp=
to supress it?
Keith D (
talk) 14:03, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
|no-pp=
suppresses the 'p.' or 'pp.' annotation in a rendered citation:
{{cite book |title=Title |page=123 |no-pp=yes}}
{{cite book |title=Title |pages=123–132 |no-pp=yes}}
|no-pp=yes
) should be made more explicit in TemplateData.
69.203.140.37 (
talk) 14:54, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
{{
cite journal}}
|no-pp=
is ignored:
{{cite journal |title=Title |journal=Journal |page=123 |no-pp=yes}}
{{cite journal |title=Title |journal=Journal |pages=123–132 |no-pp=yes}}
|no-pp=
entry in
Template:Cite journal § TemplateData may (should) be removed. Further, for |page=
, the 'documentation' text might be changed from:
|pages=
, the 'documentation' text might be changed from:
|volume=
, |issue=
, |page(s)=
parameter renderings for non-journal citations (
which see). Journal citations continue with the style used for academic/scholarly journals.{{
cite magazine}}
to {{
cite journal}}
when the source is not an academic or scholarly journal, then the issue should be taken up with the bot's operators/maintainers. If a bot is changing {{cite magazine}}
to {{cite journal}}
when the source is an academic or scholarly journal, then the bot is doing the correct thing. {{cite magazine}}
should not be used to cite academic or scholarly journals; use {{cite journal}}
for such citations. The reverse is also true: {{cite journal}}
should not be used to cite general readership periodicals; use {{cite magazine}}
for such citations.|page=
or |pages=
just gives a single number which a reader has no idea that it is a page number. You need a way of getting the p. or pp. show to claify what the number is and to make the cite style consistent in an article, regardless of the template used. Using |no-pp=no
would solve the problem or a new parameter to allow the output.
Keith D (
talk) 18:41, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
The "page has extra text" error is visible in situations like this:
{{cite journal |title=Title |journal=Journal |page=p 15}}
{{
cite journal}}
: |page=
has extra text (
help)The error also shows for |page=p. 15
, |page=page 15
, |page=pages 15–19
, and other varieties as expected.
However, it does NOT show an error for uppercase "Page" or "Pages":
{{cite journal |title=Title |journal=Journal |page=Page 15}}
{{cite journal |title=Title |journal=Journal |page=Pages 15–19}}
And I checked the sandbox, just to be sure:
{{cite journal/new |title=Title |journal=Journal |page=Page 15–19}}
{{cite journal/new |title=Title |journal=Journal |page=Pages 15–19}}
Would it be possible and reasonable to adjust the module to also identify these as errors? Thanks! GoingBatty ( talk) 00:32, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
{{cite journal|title=Title|journal=Journal|page=Sentencecaseofanything 10}}
"Title". Journal: Sentencecaseofanything 10.
{{cite journal|title=Title|journal=Journal|volume=Dosametoharmonizewithnonjournals 1|page=Sentencecaseofanything 10}}
"Title". Journal. Dosametoharmonizewithnonjournals 1: Sentencecaseofanything 10.
One of the changes in the recent update (I think
this one) has caused problems. Some magazine instances have e.g. |issue=Fall 2020
, which I had understood to be acceptable usage, and which previously displayed as Smith, Bob. "Title". Foobar Magazine (Fall 2020). Publisher. p. 4.
They now display as Smith, Bob. "Title". Foobar Magazine. No. Fall 2020. Publisher. p. 4.
It's not possible to enter "Fall 2011" into any of the date parameters, and some magazines use that system instead of numbers. How should we resolve this? {{u|
Sdkb}}
talk 01:34, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
{{
cite magazine}}
has not changed. It's not possible to enter "Fall 2011" into any of the date parametersWhy do you think that?
{{cite magazine |author=Smith, Bob |title=Title |magazine=Foobar Magazine |date=Fall 2020 |page=4}}
Formatting of volume/issue/page for {{
cite magazine}}
has not changed.
Hmm, maybe cite magazine was always that way, as I just converted the ref to that from cite news today. But I checked against an archived screenshot and it definitely did change from putting the issue in parentheses to putting it after a "No." that isn't always applicable. An issue name isn't always a number.|date=
. Yet one more issue-related parameter such as "issue-name" seems overkill. And, if you can use an actual date in date or/and an actual issue number you can also add something like this:
|quote-page=Cover|quote=(issue-name)
.If I made citation to Arabic book like
أبو حيان الغرناطي, محمد بن يوسف بن علي بن يوسف بن حيان أثير الدين الأندلسي (1990). رجب عثمان محمد; رمضان عبد التواب (eds.). ارتشاف الضرب من لسان العرب (1 ed.). مكتبة الخانجي بالقاهرة.
The commas direction is left-to-right but the text is right-to-left in "أبو حيان الغرناطي," and "رجب عثمان محمد;". We can not change the commas in Configuration file to be right-to-left because we use the same templates to cite English books.
So I suggest 2 sets of separator configurations one for default left-to-right and another to right-to-left and using is_rtl function of Module:Unicode data to determine the direction of the name and putting the right separator.-- حبيشان ( talk) 06:49, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
,
and ;
with their Arabic versions: ،
(U+060C ARABIC COMMA) and ؛
(U+061B ARABIC SEMICOLON)?
ar:Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration specifies و
(U+0648 ARABIC LETTER WAW) as the separator used in lists.is_Latn()
function that uses the built-in string.find(<parameter_value>, '%a')
. Any Latn-script letter character would be sufficient to force cs1|2 to use Latn-script separator characters otherwise use the local language's separator characters which would be specified in ~/Configuration.is_rtl
making the template universal. English Wikipedia may cite Arabic Book also Arabic Wikipedia cite English books how about citing Cyrillic, Thai or Chinese in Arabic Wikipedia these are not Latin-scripts but left-to-right? --
حبيشان (
talk) 16:49, 26 January 2022 (UTC)I believe we made a change which makes it easier to display variants. This has had the knock on effect for English as well, which we normally hide.
We should probably hide the English variant as well. Izno ( talk) 20:16, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
en-us
:
{{#language:en-us|en}}
→ American Englishen-NZ
:
{{#language:en-NZ|en}}
→ en-NZen-NZ
is not recognized by MediaWiki,
Module:Citation/CS1 declares it an unknown language and emits the maint cat and message; it does not extract the primary subtag for a retry. This is the problem that I have described below. Working on that.de-DE
, sv-SE
, etc). These kinds of tags make up the majority of the articles listed in
Category:CS1 maint: unrecognized language (205).Came here to post about this. Looking forward to the fix! czar 21:21, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
It isn't just English. Before the update, there were 109 articles with unrecognized languages. Now:
Category:CS1 maint: unrecognized language (205). Apparently, visual editor adds region subtags to every language subtag whether needed or not. Apparently, ve sometimes makes up nonsense IETF-like language tags: es-LA
Spanish as spoken in Lao People's Democratic Republic (see
this diff). As a guess, I suppose that LA
was supposed to mean Latin America but the subtag for that is 419
(see IANA
language-subtag-registry file). MediaWiki recognizes es-419
but not es-LA
:
{{#language:es-419|en}}
{{#language:es-LA|en}}
It seems that ve gives every language subtag some sort of region subtag even when there is no need for the region subtag. Samples of the many many tags not recognized by MediaWiki:
{{#language:de-DE|en}}
– German as spoken in Germany{{#language:sv-SE|en}}
– Swedish as spoken in Sweden{{#language:mr-IN|en}}
– Marathi as spoken in IndiaAll of these and the many many others are categorized in Category:CS1 maint: unrecognized language because MediaWiki does not recognize these tags as valid.
It is desirable to recognize regionally differentiated languages when they are supported by MediaWiki:
{{#language:nrf-GG|en}}
{{#language:nrf-JE|en}}
{{#language:pt-BR|en}}
{{#language:pt-PT|en}}
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 15:24, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
Rewritten in the sandbox:
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title (in German). |
Sandbox | Title (in German). |
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title (in Guernésiais). |
Sandbox | Title (in Guernésiais). |
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title (in Brazilian Portuguese). |
Sandbox | Title (in Brazilian Portuguese). |
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title (in European Portuguese). |
Sandbox | Title (in European Portuguese). |
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title. |
Sandbox | Title. |
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title (in Portuguese). |
Sandbox | Title (in Portuguese). |
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title. |
Sandbox | Title. |
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title (in ac).{{
cite book}} : CS1 maint: unrecognized language (
link)
|
Sandbox | Title (in ac).{{
cite book}} : CS1 maint: unrecognized language (
link)
|
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title (in jibberish).{{
cite book}} : CS1 maint: unrecognized language (
link)
|
Sandbox | Title (in jibberish).{{
cite book}} : CS1 maint: unrecognized language (
link)
|
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title (in Colognian). |
Sandbox | Title (in Colognian). |
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title (in Blackfoot). |
Sandbox | Title (in Blackfoot). |
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title (in Blackfoot, Colognian, jibberish, English, Portuguese, English, European Portuguese, Brazilian Portuguese, Jèrriais, Guernésiais, Marathi, Swedish, and German).{{
cite book}} : CS1 maint: unrecognized language (
link)
|
Sandbox | Title (in Blackfoot, Colognian, jibberish, English, Portuguese, English, European Portuguese, Brazilian Portuguese, Jèrriais, Guernésiais, Marathi, Swedish, and German).{{
cite book}} : CS1 maint: unrecognized language (
link)
|
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 17:30, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
Live updated.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 00:47, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
Could someone please replace or remove the redlink Category:CS1 tracked parameters at Help:CS1 errors#Properties category highlighting? Thanks! GoingBatty ( talk) 15:05, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Template talk:Cite wikisource § Multiple scan pages?. Also, should that talk page be merged to here? {{u| Sdkb}} talk 23:52, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
|scan=
parameter, which right now can be called once per template, with guidance to apply a single value (therefore not multiple scan targets).
65.254.10.26 (
talk) 00:13, 26 January 2022 (UTC)For author, editor roles following generic-name changes. As you can see they work, for now.
Example 1
{{cite book|last=Authorlast|editor-last=Editorlast|title=Title}}
Authorlast. Editorlast (ed.). Title.
Example 2
{{cite book|last1=Authorlast1|editor-last1=Editorlast1|title=Title}}
Authorlast1. Editorlast1 (ed.). Title.{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (
link)
Example 3
{{cite book|author=Authorname|editor=Editorname|title=Title}}
Authorname. Editorname (ed.). Title.
What is the proper markup for indicating all three datees and places in {{ cite conference}}:
Also, should |conference=
include Proceeding of or a similar prefix, ot just the name of the conference itself? --
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (
talk) 14:03, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
|date=
and |location=
(along with |publisher=
). |title=
is the title of the authors' paper, |book-title=
is the collection of papers (often titled Proceedings ...). |conference=
is free-form so can hold the name, dates, and location of the conference (if not already part of |book-title=
. Where and when the authors wrote a paper that is presented at a conference seems to me of little value when an en.wiki reader is looking for a copy of that paper. You are citing a published paper in a proceedings so the basics are the same as if you were citing a chapter in a book or an entry in an encyclopedia.See WP:VPT § Broken template. 71.247.146.98 ( talk) 12:59, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
I am seeing this redlinked category showing up at the bottom of Huaynaputina. As far as I know {{ lang}} does not produce such a category with the parameters of the page, but perhaps someone here knows why it's showing up? Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk) 10:26, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
|language=es-419
which MediaWiki interprets as {{#language:es-419|en}}
→ Latin American Spanish. cs1|2 takes language names from MediaWiki.When editing
kernel (operating system), I get the message "Script warning: One or more {{
cite journal}} templates have errors; messages may be hidden (
help). " and the hidden category CS1 errors: missing periodical. I can't find a broken {{
cite journal}}; the Mark I Eyeball shows a |journal=
for every {{
cite journal}}. How do I associate the error message with the relevant markup? --
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (
talk) 17:48, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
Many pages now display the message Script warning: One or more {{cite web}} templates have maintenance messages
in the preview. For example
nirmatrelvir/ritonavir,
remdesivir, and
COVID-19 vaccine. The help page is not useful. What are the maintenance messages? Why don't they appear in preview mode. On the
Nirmatrelvir/ritonavir and
COVID-19 vaccine pages there are also the messages Script warning: One or more {{cite journal}} templates have errors
and again I don't see any messages in the preview. --
Whywhenwhohow (
talk) 06:38, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
error messages are visible to all readersbut there aren't any error messages shown. It also states users should make some changes to view the maintenance messages. That is a hurdle that should not be necessary. The maintenance messages should be visible in preview. -- Whywhenwhohow ( talk) 07:50, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
Script warning: One or more {{cite web}} templates have maintenance messages? GoingBatty ( talk) 02:57, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
{{cite web}}: Cite uses deprecated parameter |lay-url= (help)but I don't see any other messages. -- Whywhenwhohow ( talk) 05:45, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
{{cite document |title=EPIC-HR: Study of Oral PF-07321332/Ritonavir Compared With Placebo in Nonhospitalized High Risk Adults With COVID-19 |url=https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04960202 |publisher=clinicaltrials.gov |date=19 November 2021}}It looks like the citation bot changed cite web to cite document -- Whywhenwhohow ( talk) 05:59, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
|journal=
parameter, I submitted
User talk:Citation bot#Converting Cite web to Cite document creates a CS1_error to ask them to stop converting the citation templates from {{
cite web}} to {{
cite document}}.
GoingBatty (
talk) 13:29, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
.citation-comment {display: inline !important;} /* show all Citation Style 1 error messages */
. Your CSS needs no further change. In
A_Different_Kind_of_Weather for example, you should see a green message after (current) citation 4 to The Encyclopedia of Popular Music.
Izno (
talk) 18:10, 25 January 2022 (UTC)@ Trappist the monk: any help here? Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 15:57, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
Personally, I like the new "... templates have maintenance messages" in the preview. It should alert editors if they introduce a maintenance issue. I have changed my CSS style sheet several times to see more messages when editing. I understand why there are different levels of messaging BUT I do not know what the levels are or how the messages are assigned to a level. I just realized the processing of cite templates changed. The process for changing and implementing templates is unknown to me. I just discovered there is a new url-status= value, "deviated". I will now need to reread the documentation (hope it has been updated). I attribute most of my frustration to differences in the way I and other (some, most) editors think. User-duck ( talk) 19:18, 25 January 2022 (UTC) PS: I find the new "generic name" messages frustrating, why are they an "error" (red), too many false positives, Ed is a perfectly valid first name. I will not work on a category with 30,000+ entries, obviously not important enough for editors and too general to efficiently tackle. User-duck ( talk) 19:18, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
cite webtemplates have maintenance messages; messages may be hidden (help)."
Sub-head: There are many genuinely free-standing documents that are not web pages and not reports.
An article that I watch ( Backslash) cites some old documents that just happen to be accessible by https. They are PDFs. They are not journals, they are not reports, tech or otherwise, they are not web pages. They are documents. Take this one for example:
cite document |title = Bulletin 125, issue 2: Description and Adjustments of the Teletype Wheatstone Perforator |publisher= Teletype Corporation |date=May 1938 | orig-date= August 1937 |url =
http://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/tty125.pdf |page=ii
Almost as a general principle, if the target is a pdf, then it is a document not a web page. The fact that (currently) we use http[s] to access the host directory is just coincidental: a while back we would have used FTP. Would anyone have suggested a template:cite ftp? (rhetorical question, they probably would).
The solution is simple: copy {{ cite report}} changing "(report)" to "(document)".
Salix alba raised this here in June last (
Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 77#cite document ) and got a fatuous reply that I'm amazed they accepted. Pinging @
Jason Quinn: who previously complained at
template talk:cite document#Should not be a redirect and @
MJL: who proposed that the redirect include R with possiblities
. --
John Maynard Friedman (
talk) 12:29, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
{{
cite report}}
isn't a better solution. An example (using {{
lay source}}
because it's handy and will serve as a crude demonstration – ignore the 'Lay summary in: ' prefix):
{{lay source |template=cite report |type=Document |title=Bulletin 125: Description and Adjustments of the Teletype Wheatstone Perforator |issue=2 |publisher=Teletype Corporation |date=August 1937 |url=http://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/tty125.pdf |via=Navy-radio}}
|page=ii
because there is no page ii in the document; also date of the change-notice is not the date of the document|type=Document
would be set internally; all other parameters are whatever an editor would want them to be.|type=
loose leaf
based on the visible perforations of the original.
65.88.88.47 (
talk) 15:45, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
{{
cite document/sandbox}}
→
{{cite document/sandbox |title=Bulletin 125: Description and Adjustments of the Teletype Wheatstone Perforator |issue=2 |publisher=Teletype Corporation |date=August 1937 |url=http://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/tty125.pdf |via=Navy Radio}}
{{
cite document}}
. Spend some time looking at other uses of {{cite document}}
to make sure that a new {{cite document}}
template is appropriate to the vast majority of uses. We should not rely on a sample size of one.I'm not at all convinced that there are many cases of anyone lazily using cite document rather than cite journal for serious academic journals but a bot can readily identify URLs that match one of the major journal publishers.
And you don't address documents that have no online presence?, please review my first sentence:
There have been more than a few citations when I've looked through the "cite journal needs journal" error category where a "cite document" or an adjusted (merged?) "cite report" is needed.
So {{ cite web}} is a better solution?For web-based citations, I think it suffices; the majority if not all the parameters a cite document would have are already in cite web. This is why I think I probably support, if cite document exists, that it should be the only template currently not to accept URL parameters as a way to discourage such. But this idea can be open for discussion, because I'd hate to introduce an exception to how the CS1 system works. Izno ( talk) 21:32, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
Looking at the discussion at User talk:Citation bot/Archive 30#Cite document, the size of the problem with existing [ab]use of cite document is substantial so I guess that work to sort out that mess will have to take priority. -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 21:40, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
|mode=cs1
, so that at least it is using a generic template-type and still formatting as CS1. The actual formatting for this replacement makes it look like a book, in that the title is italicized, but that seems less problematic than explicitly calling it a book using {{
cite book}} or formatting it as a periodical or report. I agree with the original post: cite document should be made to work. The generic case of citations is a case we need. —
David Eppstein (
talk) 22:31, 28 January 2022 (UTC)Hi all.. May i know which parameter should be used in this news: [2], "website=Badminton World Federation" or "publisher=Badminton World Federation"? Stvbastian ( talk) 11:16, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
|website=Wayback Machine
. The publisher of that website is the
Internet Archive.
172.254.162.90 (
talk) 13:58, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
|website=
. Ever. Use the original website name, which is |website=Badminton World Federation
.
Izno (
talk) 16:13, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
|publisher=
(as "Badminton World Federation" does not need to be italicized), and include the live URL and archive-URL, like this:
{{cite press release |last=Alleyne |first=Gayle |url=https://bwfbadminton.com/news-single/2017/03/19/bwf-launches-new-event-structure/ |title=BWF Launches New Event Structure |date=19 March 2017 |publisher=[[Badminton World Federation]] |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20171201164159/http://bwfbadminton.com/news-single/2017/03/19/bwf-launches-new-event-structure/ |archive-date=1 December 2017}}
|website=
and |work=
parameters are useful in determining the reliability of the source only if they refer to the original web site, not to the archival site. --
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (
talk) 21:17, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
I recently encountered an erroneous warning at the Super Mario 64 article. Can someone explain why we have "Houser" listed as a generic name? I have suppressed the error for now. — Coolperson177 ( t| c) 17:05, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
Houser
contains within it the word user
, which is a generic name. If so, this would be a false positive.
Imzadi 1979
→ 17:24, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
{{cite book/new |title=title |last=Houser}}
{{cite book/new |title=title |last=a user}}
{{cite book/new |title=title |last=user login}}
{{cite book/new |title=title |last=a user login}}
{{cite book/new |title=title |last=Super}}
{{cite book/new |title=title |last=superuser}}
{{cite book/new |title=title |last=super user}}
{{cite book/new |title=title |last=super-user}}
"Nienhauser" is another false positive.
{{cite book |last = Boorman |first = Howard L., Richard C. Howard, Associate Editor. |year = 1967 |title = Biographical Dictionary of Republican China Volume I: Ai-Ch'ü|publisher = Columbia University Press| location = New York |isbn = 0-231-08958-9|ref = none}}. , which finds fault with "first= ". ch ( talk) 23:22, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
{{cite book |last = Boorman |first = Howard L., Richard C. Howard, Associate Editor. |year = 1967 |title = Biographical Dictionary of Republican China Volume I: Ai-Ch'ü|publisher = Columbia University Press| location = New York |isbn = 0-231-08958-9|ref = none}}
{{
cite book}}
: |first=
has generic name (
help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)|first=
is wholly malformed and contains the word 'Editor'. The name holding parameter |first=
should hold only the given names and/or initials of the person whose surname is in |last=
. One person per |last=
/ |first=
pair.{{cite book |editor-last=Boorman |editor-first=Howard L. |editor2=Howard |editor-first2=Richard C. |date=1967 |title=Biographical Dictionary of Republican China |volume=I: Ai-Ch'ü |publisher=Columbia University Press |location=New York |isbn=0-231-08958-9 |ref=none}}
|authors=
is discouraged. There used to be |editors=
but support for that has been withdrawn and, someday, support for |authors=
will also be withdrawn. Individual authors should be named in individual |lastn=
/ |firstn=
pairs or in |authorn=
. Same for editors, interviewers, contributors, translators.|authors=
will also be withdrawn.” That seems like a bad idea, considering first and last name are not universal concepts in the world (middlename, family name first, two familynames, no familyname are all concepts used by various cultures). There is a reason that ppl are advising developers to use a single namefield instead of a forced first name lastname, combo these days. —
TheDJ (
talk •
contribs) 01:33, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
|authorn=
parameters won't be going away. All of those middlename, family name first, two familynames, no familyname ... conceptsare easily handled by the enumerated parameters; one person per enumerated parameter.
|authors=
(plural) is free-form and, as you note, human names aren't standardized. To make |authors=
usable by editors who consume cs1|2 citation via the metadata, some sort of code that is clever enough to extract the names of individual humans from the free-form list is needed. Alas, because the list of names is free-form, one cannot rely on standardized name separators. I do not have skill enough to write that code, perhaps you or someone you know has that skill. Write that code and we'll implement it.|author1=
, then |author-others=
}}, or some such? In the Boorman example above, for instance, there were several other editors, but it would have taken more time than it was worth to me to list them all separately. OK, I was lazy, but it was a lazy man who invented the wheel. And the cites would still be to Boorman.
ch (
talk) 04:13, 26 January 2022 (UTC)is producing
This started happening within the last day or two. - Floydian τ ¢ 19:02, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
Could someone please tweak the Lua pattern for %f[%a]user%f[%A]
in
Category:CS1 errors: generic name so it doesn't produce false positives like
10 Canis Majoris and
59 Sagittarii? Simplified version below:
{{cite journal | last1=Tetzlaff | first1=N. | last2=Neuhäuser | first2=R. | title=title | journal=journal }}
Thanks! GoingBatty ( talk) 21:07, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
%a
.
mw.ustring
which does consider it part of %a.
Izno (
talk) 23:14, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
{{cite journal | last1=Hauser | first1=John | title=title | journal=journal }}
Not sure what is going on, but this feature clearly is buggy. -- Mathnerd314159 ( talk) 01:50, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
Hi again! Articles such as 6th State Duma and 109th United States Congress have references with "Editorial" in the author parameter, which are now included in Category:CS1 errors: generic name. Is there another parameter to use for "Editorial" to differentiate the reference from a news article? Thanks! GoingBatty ( talk) 22:22, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
|department=
is probably the best parameter for it; |type=
only if you must. --
Izno (
talk) 22:26, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
|author1=Editorial Board
. I've switched it to |department=
, but that's a very niche thing for us to police with something as strong as an error message. I'd recommend that the filter trigger only on "editor", not "editorial". {{u|
Sdkb}}
talk 21:00, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
|department=
should be used as in the 'department' or section of a newspaper e.g. "Life" or "Editorials", hence why I suggested it in Batty's case. It should not be used for the author.Could someone please tweak the Lua pattern for %f[%a]editor%f[%A]
in
Category:CS1 errors: generic name so it doesn't produce false positives for the last name "Creditor" as it does in
Addisyn Merrick? Simplified version below:
{{Cite web|last=Creditor|first=Avi|title=title|url=//example.com}}
I found 86 such articles. Thanks! GoingBatty ( talk) 00:47, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
{{Cite web/new|last=Creditor|first=Avi|title=title|url=//example.com}}
The flag on
Uyghur genocide#cite_note-AusUygrep628-253 for the |last5=Ruser
seems to be a false positive due the name containing "user". There's also a "One or more {{
cite web}} templates have maintenance messages" error in the same article that I'm unable to figure out. --
Marchjuly (
talk) 13:43, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
{{cite report/new|last1=Xu|first1=Vicky Xiuzhong|last2=Cave|first2=Danielle|last3=Leibold|first3=James|last4=Munro|first4=Kelsey|last5=Ruser|first5=Nathan|title=Uyghurs for sale: 'Re-education', forced labour and surveillance beyond Xinjiang|url=https://www.aspi.org.au/report/uyghurs-sale|publisher=[[Australian Strategic Policy Institute]]|pages=6–28|date=February 2020}}
{{
cite web}}
templates use |url-status=live
without |archive-url=
. |url-status=live
is meaningless without the template also has |archive-url=
with an assigned value. The two templates are
here and
here. Follow the
help link in the preview message to learn how to show maintenance messaging.The name Ed is now popping up a CS1 generic name error at Australian green tree frog. This recent change had worse pre-run bug testing than damn Microsoft. Also, why is it necessary to produce a big red error message rather than just a hidden tracking category, which would do the job just as well? It's like some people would rather dick around with the citation templates and make things harder on real content editors than actually productively create content Hog Farm Talk 22:35, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
|editor1=
or looking at the source to find the actual author name. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 00:44, 28 January 2022 (UTC)Using this template like this gives the generic name error, including when its |author=
param isn't used.
Examples from
2020 Twitter account hijacking:
{{Cite tweet |number=1283591846464233474 |user=TwitterSupport |title= We detected what we believe to be a coordinated social engineering attack by people who successfully targeted some of our employees with access to internal systems and tools. |author=Twitter Support }}
{{
cite web}}
: |author1=
has generic name (
help){{Cite tweet |number=1283591846464233474 |user=TwitterSupport |title= We detected what we believe to be a coordinated social engineering attack by people who successfully targeted some of our employees with access to internal systems and tools. }}
The |author=
as passed to Cite web is, respectfully, Twitter Support [@TwitterSupport]
and @TwitterSupport
-
Einstein95 (
talk) 04:11, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
Twitter
being present in the author, which these citations use. -
Einstein95 (
talk) 06:25, 27 January 2022 (UTC)I've been picking away at
Category:CS1 errors: parameter link where I have noticed quite a few |lastn=News
parameters. Searches:
I propose to add:
{['en' = {'%f[%a][Nn]ews%f[%A]', false},
to the generic names list.
Sandboxed:
Wikitext | {{cite news
|
---|---|
Live | News, BBC. "Title". {{
cite news}} : |last= has generic name (
help)
|
Sandbox | News, BBC. "Title". {{
cite news}} : |last= has generic name (
help)
|
Wikitext | {{cite news
|
---|---|
Live | Newsome, Winsome. "Title". |
Sandbox | Newsome, Winsome. "Title". |
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 17:15, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
Wikitext | {{cite news
|
---|---|
Live | BBC News. "Title". |
Sandbox | BBC News. "Title". |
Wikitext | {{cite news
|
---|---|
Live | News Corp. "Title". |
Sandbox | News Corp. "Title". |
|lastn=News Corp
:
2|firstn=News Corp
:
1|authorn=News Corp
:
no resultsWhen using "Editor" in the |author=
parameter, two CS1 messages are now given: "|author= has generic name" and "CS1 maint: extra text: authors list". Could someone please tweak the modules to remove the overlap so only the error is displayed?
{{cite magazine |author=Editor |title=Title |magazine=Magazine}}
{{
cite magazine}}
: |author=
has generic name (
help)Thanks for your consideration. GoingBatty ( talk) 15:36, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
{{cite magazine/new |author=Editors |title=Title |magazine=Magazine}}
{{
cite magazine}}
: |author=
has generic name (
help){{cite magazine/new |author=Editor |title=Title |magazine=Magazine}}
{{
cite magazine}}
: |author=
has generic name (
help){{cite magazine/new |author=Editorial |title=Title |magazine=Magazine}}
{{cite magazine/new |author=Edited |title=Title |magazine=Magazine}}
{{
cite magazine}}
: |author=
has generic name (
help){{cite magazine/new |author=ed. |title=Title |magazine=Magazine}}
{{
cite magazine}}
: |author=
has generic name (
help){{cite magazine/new |author=eds. |title=Title |magazine=Magazine}}
{{
cite magazine}}
: |author=
has generic name (
help)|author=Joe Smith, ed.
, |author=Joe Smith (ed.)
, |last=Smith
|first=Joe, ed.
and |last=Smith
|first=Joe (ed.)
Thanks!
GoingBatty (
talk) 17:02, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
{{cite magazine/new |author=Joe Smith, ed. |title=Title |magazine=Magazine}}
{{
cite magazine}}
: |author=
has generic name (
help){{cite magazine/new |author=Joe Smith (ed.) |title=Title |magazine=Magazine}}
{{
cite magazine}}
: |author=
has generic name (
help){{cite magazine/new |last=Smith|first=Joe, ed. |title=Title |magazine=Magazine}}
{{
cite magazine}}
: |first=
has generic name (
help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link){{cite magazine/new |last=Smith|first=Joe (ed.) |title=Title |magazine=Magazine}}
{{
cite magazine}}
: |first=
has generic name (
help){{cite magazine/new |author=Ed Smith |title=Title |magazine=Magazine}}
{{cite magazine/new |author=ed. Joe Smith |title=Title |magazine=Magazine}}
{{
cite magazine}}
: |author=
has generic name (
help)Editor GoingBatty has cleared Category:CS1 errors: extra text: volume (972). Error messages associated with that category are hidden. Without objection, I shall unhide those error messages.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 18:44, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
|volume=
parameter?I have an article on my watchlist which has a reference whose authors are listed as "Editors". (I have reason to believe that more specific author names are possible in this case but verifying that would require finding the original 1938 publication, which appears to be offline and in Polish.) It is necessary to have an author for this reference, in order to link to the reference by the harvard citation templates. A "helpful" bot tried to fix the reference by removing its authors altogether, and in doing so broke the harv link, but I've discussed that elsewhere. Here, I want to consider instead the possibility that an author parameter like |author=Editors
should NOT be considered to be an error. It is a common way of indicating that a piece in a periodical is credited to the editorial board of the periodical rather than individually signed. That credit is still necessary, both for linking (above), and as a way of distinguish it from a malformed citation where the authors are accidentally omitted. I can work around it by using |author=((Editors))
but I don't think I should have to. My preference would be for the error message to be removed in this case. (Setting the author to "Someone's name, ed." should still be an error, though.) —
David Eppstein (
talk) 08:21, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
|vauthors=
and |veditors=
parameters. I chose the doubled parentheses because its form mimicked the doubled square bracket and doubled curly braces already in use for wikimarkup – something familiar to en.wiki editors. Until today, I never knew that trippled parentheses had a meaning. This
crude search suggests that there are ~2,000 articles that have something wrapped in trippled parentheses; many of them associated with music so perhaps notice at
WT:WPMU might be in order.|department=Ed. research notes
. If the note has a title use it in |title=
along with the article title. If notes are not common enough to be a regular section, use |at=
. Again, if the note has a title you can insert it there, plus the interpolation [editor note]
. If no title you could just add the interpolation in |at=
. Bibliographic providers often (not always) add such information in the biblio record, so in such cases it can be found relatively easily by somebody reading the annotation info in your citation. If the note has not been indexed anywhere, the information is still good in leading the reader to the exact location that verifies the wikitext.
68.132.154.35 (
talk) 21:10, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
Apologies since this was surely asked before, but a Wikipedia search through TP archives wasn't of any help. Should I put |url-access=limited
or |url-access=registration
?
Template:Cite book#Subscription or registration required seems to imply limited
(since there are other constraints, i.e. the number of people who may borrow the book simultaneously), but the text of the tooltip for registration
fits the situation much better.
Daß
Wölf 21:55, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
|url-status=registration
.
This edit for example.This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 75 | ← | Archive 79 | Archive 80 | Archive 81 | Archive 82 | Archive 83 | → | Archive 85 |
Oughtn't we to have |subject-firstn=
and |subject-lastn=
? These would normally be used in {{
cite interview}}
and which does support |interviewer-firstn=
and |interviewer-lastn=
. |subjectn=
is an alias of |authorn=
.
I don't recall discussing this anywhere and a quick search of the archives seems to indicate that the topic has never been raised. Any reason why we aren't (shouldn't be) supporting these?
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 16:43, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
Which is the canonical form? The docs seem to be self-contradictory. AManWithNoPlan ( talk) 22:03, 6 December 2021 (UTC)
|orig-date=
is the canonical form.|orig-year=
in all the big lists of possible parameters.
AManWithNoPlan (
talk) 15:35, 7 December 2021 (UTC)Look for the docs in https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Special:Search&limit=500&offset=0&ns10=1&search=insource%3A%22orig-year%22&searchToken=2w083e4dr0dw1zo9x62k1hcsi AManWithNoPlan ( talk) 15:37, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
I just modified a cite at HMS Sheffield (D80) (my bold additions):
The sinking of Sheffield is sometimes blamed on a superstructure made wholly or partially from aluminium, the melting point and ignition temperature of which are significantly lower than those of steel. However, this is incorrect as Sheffield's superstructure was made entirely of steel. [1]
References
- ^ Blomquist, John E. (3 July 1982). "Letter to the Editor: Aluminum's Not to Blame For Warship Loss". New York Times. Retrieved 16 June 2015.
John E. Blomquist, President, Reynolds Aluminum, Richmond, Va.
The documentation here does not properly cover letters to the editor from notable public figures. This is a bit annoying, because unlike most instance of cite news, it would make sense to annotate the professional association of the letter writer, in this case: President of Vested to the Hilt, Inc.
I skirted the issue by quoting his own sign-off attribution from the article itself. Felt a bit dirty, but it worked for me. In the absence of better documentation here, I fear it's the best you can hope for. — MaxEnt 20:07, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
The sinking of Sheffield is sometimes blamed on a superstructure made wholly or partially from aluminium, the melting point and ignition temperature of which are significantly lower than those of steel. However, this is incorrect as Sheffield's superstructure was made entirely of steel. [1]
References
- ^ Blomquist, John E. (3 July 1982). "Aluminum's Not to Blame For Warship Loss". Letters to the Editor. New York Times. Retrieved 16 June 2015. Signed "John E. Blomquist, President, Reynolds Aluminum, Richmond, Va."
|department=
for {{
cite news}}. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 20:32, 9 December 2021 (UTC)I cannot seem to find a way to add authors of prefaces or forewords. According to the documentation at
Template:Cite book, this is done by the parameters contribution
, contributor-last
and contributor-first
. However, those parameters do not seem to work and are not present in the Visual Editor's interface for
Template:Cite book.
Is there a bug is did I fail to understand how it is supposed to work?
Veverve (
talk) 17:40, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
{{cite book |title=Title |contribution=Foreword |last=Smith |first=CD |contributor-last=Jones |contributor-first=AB}}
|contribution=
, |contributor=
/ |contributor-last=
, etc., is for. For instance, if you are citing John Smith's statement that "working with Jane Doe was a labor of love",
[1], you'd use the following citation:
{{Cite book |contributor-last=Smith |contributor-first=John |contribution=Forward |last=Doe |first=Jane |date=2021 |title=Fake Book I Made Up }}
References
Ward, Gary L.; Persson, Bertil; Bain, Alan, eds. (1990). "Brown, Daniel Quilter".
Independent Bishops: An International Directory. Apogee Books. p. 63.
ISBN
978-1-55888-307-9. {{
cite book}}
: |contributor=
requires |author=
(
help); |contributor=
requires |contribution=
(
help); More than one of |contribution=
and |chapter=
specified (
help)
.
Veverve (
talk) 18:22, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
|chapter=Brown, Daniel Quilter
|contribution=Preface
|contribution=
and |chapter=
specified error message. Because cs1|2 chose |chapter=
, it ignores |contribution=
. Because you wrote:
|contributor-last=J. Gordon |contributor-first=Melton
|contribution=
(which is required for any of the |contributor=
parameters), cs1|2 emits the |contributor=
requires |contribution=
error message. Because there is no |author=
(or |last=
) parameter (which is required when using any of the |contributor=
parameters, cs1|2 emits the |contributor=
requires |author=
error message.{{
cite book}}
template. If you want to cite both the chapter "Brown, Daniel Quilter" and the "Preface", you must do so separately. And, since this source appears to be more of an encyclopedia than a book with chapters (to me, "Brown, Daniel Quilter" 'feels' more like an encyclopedia entry) then, for that entry, perhaps this:
{{Cite encyclopedia |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=EpXjAAAAMAAJ&q= |encyclopedia=Independent Bishops: An International Directory |date=1990 |publisher=Apogee Books |isbn=978-1-55888-307-9 |editor-last=Ward |editor-first=Gary L. |page=63 |language=en |entry=Brown, Daniel Quilter |editor-last2=Persson |editor-first2=Bertil |editor-last3=Bain |editor-first3=Alan}}
{{Cite encyclopedia |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=EpXjAAAAMAAJ&q= |encyclopedia=Independent Bishops: An International Directory |date=1990 |publisher=Apogee Books |isbn=978-1-55888-307-9 |editor-last=Ward |editor-first=Gary L. |page=63 |language=en |section=Preface |editor-last2=Persson |editor-first2=Bertil |editor-last3=Bain |editor-first3=Alan}}
|contribution=
{{
cite encyclopedia}}
: |contributor=
ignored (
help)|contribution=
{{
cite encyclopedia}}
appears to be the best choice here.If you are including "Preface" in the citation merely because the work has a preface, don't do that.I think it is quite relevant to indicate if there is a preface to a work, which is why I tried to indicate it. It is especially important in this case, as J. Gordon Melton is a well respected encyclopedia editor in the religious field. Veverve ( talk) 19:08, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
J. Gordon Melton is a well respected encyclopedia editor. When/if text at Daniel Q. Brown is supported by Melton's preface, then cite Melton separately.
|others=Preface by
J. Gordon Melton
. I do not recommend it because that is just so much extraneous text that doesn't aid a reader in locating a copy of the source.|contribution=
and related parameters exist in support of citing material in the text. Think of it this way: if articles needed to cite a Preface or Forward of a work, how would they do so, given the current crop of {{Cite xxx}} templates, if the templates worked the way you're trying to make them work? The answer is, they couldn't. That's what |citation=
|contribution=
et. al provide: a way to cite material that's not part of the main body of the work.This ... template is used to create citations for articles or chapters in edited collections such as encyclopedias and dictionaries, but more generally any book or book series containing individual sections or chapters written by various authors, and put together by one or more editors.
|mode=cs2
as an argument to suppress the final stop/period that the {{
Cite encyclopedia}} template normally provides:
{{Cite encyclopedia |mode=cs2 |title=Brown, Daniel Quilter |encyclopedia=Independent Bishops: An International Directory |date=1990 |publisher=Apogee Books |isbn=978-1-55888-307-9 |editor-last=Ward |editor-first=Gary L. |pages=63 |editor-last2=Persson |editor-first2=Bertil |editor-last3=Bain |editor-first3=Alan |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=EpXjAAAAMAAJ&q= }}, with Preface by [[J. Gordon Melton]].
|ref=none
to the {{Cite encyclopedia}} template to suppress the 'Harv warning' in this example. If you are using CITEREFs / reference templates ({{
sfn}}, {{
harvnb}}, etc.), then you don't need the |ref=none
parameter to the Cite template. —
sbb (
talk) 02:57, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
|citation=
|mode=cs2
also switches the element separator from dot to comma and changes some capitalization so templates with that parameter/value pair are stylistically different from adjacent cs1 templates. This can cause knickers to twist. Better perhaps is to use |postscript=none
or |postscript=,
(or other single punctuation character).|citation=
mistake (I meant to say |contribution=
, but I had {{
Citation}} on my mind from the previous sentence). Edited with |mode=cs2
, but I forgot it had other effects besides just final punctuation. Definitely agree, I shouldn't recommend CS1/CS2 mode switching; people go to a lot of effort to get articles self-consistent. Thanks. —
sbb (
talk) 18:45, 18 December 2021 (UTC)I am trying to add the following:
Melton, J. Gordon (2009). "Chapter 2 - Western Liturgical Family, Part I: The Western Catholic Tradition".
Hugh George de Willmott Newman. Melton's encyclopedia of American religions (8th ed.). Detroit: Gale Cengage Learning. p. 84.
ISBN
978-0-7876-9696-2.
However, the name of the entry ("Hugh George de Willmott Newman") is italicised. The only I can get the entry name to be between quotation marks is by removing or emptying the chapter parameter. Is there any way I could have something like ('Chapter 2 - Western Liturgical Family, Part I: The Western Catholic Tradition')
to be displayed so that I can indicate clearly the name of the entry while also indicating the name of the chapter the entry is in?
Veverve (
talk) 16:05, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
|chapter=
, |title=
); encyclopedias, journals, and magazines, it's (|title=
, |encyclopedia=
), (|title=
, |journal=
), and (|title=
, |magazine=
).{{
cite encyclopedia}}
to some extent:
{{Cite encyclopedia |entry=Hugh George de Willmott Newman |encyclopedia=Melton's encyclopedia of American religions |publisher=Gale Cengage Learning |url=http://archive.org/details/meltonsencyclope0008melt |last=Melton |first=J. Gordon |date=2009 |publication-place=Detroit |edition=8th |page=84 |isbn=978-0-7876-9696-2 |title=''Chapter 2 - Western Liturgical Family, Part I: The Western Catholic Tradition''}}
|entry=
) will not be available to readers who consume cs1|2 citations by way of the metadata. Do not add quote marks to |title=
because they are not stripped from the value when it is made part of the metadata.I want to insure the reader will be able to find the entry I pointed to in the most recent editions in the future. This is contrary to WP:SAYWHERE. We really can't future-proof citations. In some future version of Melton's, the entry may no-longer support the text at en.wiki; the chapter organization may change; other stuff may change... but the 2009 edition does support the en.wiki text so that is how the citation should be constructed. Were it me, I would write:
{{Cite encyclopedia |entry=Hugh George de Willmott Newman |entry-url=https://archive.org/details/meltonsencyclope0008melt/page/84/mode/2up |encyclopedia=Melton's encyclopedia of American religions |publisher=Gale Cengage Learning |url=http://archive.org/details/meltonsencyclope0008melt |url-access=registration |last=Melton |first=J. Gordon |date=2009 |location=Detroit |edition=8th |page=84 |isbn=978-0-7876-9696-2}}
|department=
:
|department=
was valid for {{
Cite encyclopedia}}. I only use |department=
with {{
Cite newspaper}} or {{
Cite magazine}} where the entry is something like an obituary, public notices, standing "letter from the editor", etc. —
sbb (
talk) 23:40, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
|at=
{{Cite encyclopedia |chapter=Chapter 2 - Western Liturgical Family, Part I: The Western Catholic Tradition |encyclopedia=Melton's encyclopedia of American religions |publisher=Gale Cengage Learning |url=http://archive.org/details/meltonsencyclope0008melt |url-access=registration |last=Melton |first=J. Gordon |date=2009 |location=Detroit |edition=8th |at=p. [https://archive.org/details/meltonsencyclope0008melt/page/84/mode/2up 84: Hugh George de Willmott Newman] |isbn=978-0-7876-9696-2}}
Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration has local date information along with English language date information. This is a creating problem for Telugu Wikipedia users, as everytime this module is refreshed from enwikipedia, as part of import of Templates that use this module, the Telugu language information is getting overwritten. Then a manual update of Telugu language language dates is required to avoid check date errors being shown for Telugu dates. I request the maintainers to internationalise that portion. Arjunaraoc ( talk) 00:30, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
Can someone please add 'quote-p' and 'quote-pp' as aliases of 'quote-page' and 'quote-pages' respectively? -- PK2 ( talk) 05:06, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
Tang, Jian; Oka, Takeshi (1999). "Infrared spectroscopy of H3O+: the v1 fundamental band".
Journal of Molecular Spectroscopy. 196 (1): 120–130.
Bibcode:
1999JMoSp.196..120T.
doi:
10.1006/jmsp.1999.7844.
PMID
10361062. {{
cite journal}}
: templatestyles stripmarker in |title=
at position 26 (
help)
There's no issue in this citation. That error message needs to be suppressed. Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 18:23, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
{{
Su}}
has been marked with {{
COinS safe|n}}
since
this edit 18 January 2015. {{COinS safe}}
has been around since 18 May 2012 (
Special:Permalink/493117278). The COinS section of the cs1|2 template documentation was created 12 January 2012 (
Special:Permalink/470891851) and incorporated at
this edit (11 January 2012). Yeah, the timing seems a little odd... Still, we have discouraged the use of templates in cs1|2 parameters for nearly a decade now.<sub>...</sub>
and <sup>...</sup>
tags, like this:
|title=
. One common example is {{
en dash}}. For more, you can turn to the imaginary list documenting such templates that do not blame the victims.
65.88.88.91 (
talk) 19:36, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
This should bypass the error. Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 19:49, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
{{
cite journal}}
: templatestyles stripmarker in |title=
at position 26 (
help){{
cite journal}}
: templatestyles stripmarker in |title=
at position 26 (
help)Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 19:50, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
{{
H3O+}}
template is not in the sandbox template (it was replaced with H<sub>3</sub>O<sup>+</sup>
) so, of course, the 'fix' appeared to work.<chem>...</chem>
markup is like <math>...</math>
markup: the rendering that is visible is an image:
<chem>H3O+</chem>
<chem>...</chem>
markup in the same way that we handle <math>...</math>
markup – some sort of error message in the metadata instead of a non-sensical stripmarker. Discussion is appropriate, I think.<chem>...</chem>
is like <math>...</math>
, then it should be handled like math. The revert is nonsensical even if it didn't fix the above issue.
Headbomb {
t ·
c ·
p ·
b} 21:31, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
<chem>...</chem>
), and
Template:Chem's documentation includes {{
COinS safe|n}}
, with a note stating that <chem>...</chem>
is an alternative to {{
chem}}.
GoingBatty (
talk) 23:21, 29 December 2021 (UTC){{
cite journal}}
: templatestyles stripmarker in |title=
at position 26 (
help){{
cite journal}}
: templatestyles stripmarker in |title=
at position 26 (
help)At Carnot cycle we want to reference https://www.gutenberg.org/files/50880/50880-pdf.pdf, specifically we want equations 39, 40 and 65 in sections §90 and §137. I'm not sure of the best way to do this. Stepho talk 00:59, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
|contribution=Equations 39, 40, and 65 in Sections 90 and 137
within the citation template. Doing it that way has the advantage that you can still specify pages as a separate parameter rather than needing to format the page numbers as part of the |at=
parameter, and that you can provide a direct link to the starting page of the contribution (if you're using a source like archive.org or Google books that provides such links) in the |contribution-url=
parameter. —
David Eppstein (
talk) 01:59, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
"If the value is correct and larger than the currently configured limit of 8700000, please report this at Help talk:Citation Style 1, so that the limit can be updated."
-- Ben Best: Talk 21:32, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
access-date
for archived pages?For citations that are archived from the very start (i.e. cited only after the original website has lapsed), what should access-date
in
Template:Cite web contain: the last time the writer successfully accessed the original URL, or the last time the writer successfully accessed the archived URL? The documentation defines the parameter as “[t]he full date when the original URL was accessed” – so should the parameter perhaps not be present at all in that case?
Obskyr (
talk) 04:59, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
|archive-date=
will suffice in this case, obviously as long as it is later than the event date.
65.88.88.57 (
talk) 20:37, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
|access-date=
is the date that the web page at the original URL was used to verify the content in our article, and |date=
is the date that this original web page was published; |archive-date=
is the date that Wayback Machine (or whoever) made an archive copy of the web page concerned. --
Redrose64 🌹 (
talk) 21:01, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
|archive-date=
is important. There may be several snapshots on that date, but CS1 currently does not provide snapshot resolution. But the original question was about the access date of the archive. To answer this properly, we have to know how each service handles its archives. Empirically, most people accept archives as static, regardless of the service provider.
65.88.88.201 (
talk) 14:50, 5 January 2022 (UTC)Given that a noted journalist or academic that authored the text thats being referenced will themselves be able to referenced, could we store their wikidata id (as well the first and surname) which in turn stores their various academic ID's (such as ORCID) and popularist ID's (such as twiter), perhaps linking to reasonator to make it readable? It would also solve the the variation in their names, for example they may use a formal version of their name in academic papers and casual for something in the popular press as well varations whether they use "special characters" in their name
The same could be used for the publicaton
So for example
Pöhls, Jan-Hendrik. "A new approach finds materials that can turn waste heat into electricity". The Conversation. Retrieved 2022-01-05.
Would become something like
Pöhls, Jan-Hendrik . "A new approach finds materials that can turn waste heat into electricity". The Conversation . Retrieved 2022-01-05.
Back ache ( talk) 15:05, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
|author-link=
and |work=
parameters to provide links to articles about the authors and publications, create redirects for variations in their names, and add ID links in the External links section of those articles. Happy editing!
GoingBatty (
talk) 16:00, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
OPPOSE Wikidata author IDs do not belong in citations. This is complete clutter. The only thing that might belong in a citation is the Wikidata QID for the article/chapter/book being cited, if the article/chapter/book has a corresponding Wikidata entry. Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 12:57, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Module:Citation/CS1/Suggestions has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Could somebody add "archive-link" (correct to " archive-url)? Thanks in advance. Leomk0403 ( Don't shout here, Shout here!) 09:25, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
|archive-link=
as an alias to |archive-url=
, I would say that we ought not do that. link
can be taken to mean more than just a url (a
wikilink is a link...) Editors know and understand |archive-url=
so I see no benefit to adding |archive-link=
as an alias.The guidance of the CS1 help page states that 'Sources are at liberty to use other ways of expressing dates, such as "spring/summer" or a date in a religious calendar; editors should report the date as expressed by the source.' However, the templates as implemented do not appear to respect this, as the date errors are not suppressable. How should this be addressed? -- Paul_012 ( talk) 11:25, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
In cases where the date as expressed in the source is not compatible with the template software, the citation should be created without using a template.– Jonesey95 ( talk) 13:25, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
This is not directly related to CS1, but it is something to be aware of. This project (
"About Memento" link) is basically a meta-archive whose protocol (
RFC 7089) includes logic to automatically access the optimal version of an archived page among different archives. Perhaps more importantly for CS1, there is no need for |archive-url=
; the built-in logic in the Memento protocol parses the original URL and determines its status, and whether an archived version exists, which is then served transparently to the user. The current drawback is that the Memento protocol has to be called via a browser extension. It is conceivable that it may become a built-in feature. I am not aware of any Wikipedia template/script that applies this protocol currently.
65.88.88.62 (
talk) 16:06, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
{{cite journal}}
accepts both year and date, but the former is discouraged. Since date can accept day, month, and year; this creates inconsistency in the references. I understand the full date is necessary for some references such as news articles, but it is really superfluous for scholarly journals. I suggest encouraging date=YYYY for journal references for the following reasons: (i) In scholarly referencing, the full date of publication is (almost) never used for journal articles. (ii) Full date of publication is technically useful for scholarly articles, as the dates of submission, acceptance, online publication, print publication are months apart in the best-case scenario. (iii) The guide says it is useful if an author publishes several articles in the same year, but Wikipedia references are numbered not sorted by authors' names in Chicago style. Even in the latter, YYYYa,b,c is used since there is no guarantee that one author has not several articles in the same month.
My suggestion is not to change anything but to encourage in the referencing guide using the year of publication. 589q ( talk) 02:25, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
|date=
documentation suggests several different ways to input the date. Presumably, the source can be found whether the date is input as year only or as a more complete date. However it is best to input the date the way you see it in the publication itself, again because this is how the source will be found faster when one searches for it by date. The consistency proposition satisfies aesthetics but may hamper/delay discovery. In an inherently unreliable project like Wikipedia, ease of source discovery and therefore of verification is important. Consistency regarding dates is recommended where it will not affect discovery. And may I repeat that the idea that the average reader will see a citation and immediately click on an otherwise cryptic identifier is not a useful assumption, and imo highly unlikely.
65.88.88.68 (
talk) 17:06, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
Almost everyone is in favor of the month of publication. I still believe an article is looked up by its year, volume, and page number if DOI is not available. I just wonder if the month of publication is such useful, why is there no petition to add the missing date of publication in the references. I come to my second reasoning that the date of publication is misleading.
Let me clarify this through an example. How do you cite this article https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/jacs.1c08484? At the top of the page, it is written: Publication Date:November 28, 2021, but this article belongs to volume 143, issue 49 (December 15, 2021). Nowhere on the page, you can find December 15, 2021 unless you go to the issue page.
You may wonder what if the publication year is different from the issue. Here is an example: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/jacs.0c10943 Publication Date:December 15, 2020 belongs to volume 143, issue 1 (January 13, 2021). At the top of the page, it is clearly stated Cite this: J. Am. Chem. Soc. 2021, 143, 1, 5–16
The problem is: for most publishers, the publication date is the date of (online) publication of the article, but the publication year is of the release of the whole issue. The latter must be used for citation. Usually, the latter is included in the former, but not necessarily (the second example I gave). 589q ( talk) 03:26, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
|date=
, for the date printed on the cover; and |publication-date=
for the date that it became available to subscribers and other potential purchasers. These two need not be the same, see
Template:Cite journal#csdoc_date and
Template:Cite journal#csdoc_publication-date. For example:
As discussed
above, TemplateStyles tags (or rather their strip markers) flag up as an error:
"Wikipedia". {{
cite web}}
: templatestyles stripmarker in |title=
at position 1 (
help). What exactly is the purpose of this? It makes it much more difficult for template editors to add TemplateStyles to any inline template, as there's a risk that someone has used that template in a citation and citations will then start issuing errors.
If it's a risk of corrupting COinS, why not just silently strip it from machine-readable parts of the output? By their nature the TemplateStyles strip markers only need to appear once to work. If even having it inside the displayed title (or wherever) is problematic, then it could be moved from there to before the rest of the citation. User:GKFX talk 19:29, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
{{cite web|title={{smallcaps|Wikipedia}}|url=https://en.wikipedia.org}}
{{
smallcaps}}
has been processed is this:
?'"`UNIQ--templatestyles-00000051-QINU`"'?<span class="smallcaps">Wikipedia</span>
|title=
, is 'Wikipedia'; the rest is extraneous junk that does not belong in |title=
.|id=
or |quote=
, they are ignored because those parameter values are not made part of the citation's metadata. Math strip markers are removed from the metadata and replaced with 'MATH RENDER ERROR' message because Scribunto no longer allows modules to fetch the content of math strip markers. A math strip marker remains in the rendered parameter value so that MediaWiki can replace it with an image of the equation. cs1|2 can fetch the content of nowiki strip markers so it does so when creating metadata. All other strip markers are considered erroneous.semi-readableis good enough. I asked that question because en.wiki should never be in the business of making-up 'standards' for anything especially when there are already extant standards in the outer world. We have
<chem>...</chem>
tags so presumably what goes inside those tags (apparently some form of LaTeX) is standardized markup. That is the markup-in-plain-text that should be used by {{
chem2}}
and supplied in the markup-in-span scheme so that readers who consume a cs1|2 template via its metadata can read and understand (because it is standardized) the markup that makes an equation in |title=
.{{
math}}
one such template that might use the scheme? And the templates that are used in it? What about nesting of one (or more) markup-in-span template inside another markup-in-span template? Are there other templates that might be suited to the scheme? If not, then perhaps it is not worth the effort to create and maintain the markup-in-span scheme. Styling templates like {{
smallcaps}}
have no reason to be included in the scheme because styling of cs1|2 citations is the responsibility of cs1|2.class=
attribute would be sufficient to turn off the stripmarker error.data-wiki-plaintext="HC≡CH"
would be more appropriate than putting it as document text in a span and then having to hide the span with CSS.
User:GKFX
talk 21:39, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
paper called "Properties of O2−2"to the journal for publication, wrote that, and other, equations using a method that guaranteed that the publisher would typeset it correctly. After all, that is all that
{{
chem2}}
and like templates are doing here. Some sort of mechanism is required to place all of the various parts of the equation in their proper positions. Is that something that generic word processors do these days? If not then what is the typesetting standard used by industry journals? Whatever that standard is, that should be the standard used at en.wiki. If there is no such standard then, I suppose, en.wiki can do whatever it wants when it comes to typesetting chemistry equations. You don't like LaTeX with the mhchem library, suggest a better standard.
{{Chem2/sandbox}}
. That sandbox uses the class=
attribute. Were we to implement something like that, regardless of whether it uses class=
or data-whatever=
, cs1|2 would remove that attribute thing from its input parameter before rendering so no need to hide the span with CSS.
It is more difficult and time consuming to remove the rest of the junk that templates can add to a parameter value.This is not pertinent. Editors do not need templates to add junk to a parameter value, and the fact that it is indeed difficult to remove has nothing to do with this discussion. The main, longstanding issue is that COinS may interfere with legitimate citation editing. This is not new. A thorough search will discover complaints going back at least 12+ years, or ever since the introduction of the scheme in the defunct {{citation/core}}. Btw, the discussion on adding the metadata scheme (if memory serves, prompted by a request from Zotero-using editors) was minimal, as I recall. The problem is that COinS is based on OpenURL, which basically adds specific-content-location additions to a regular http address. Extraneous http artifacts will obviously generate unwanted results. It is incumbent on Wikipedia COinS to find a workable solution to that problem instead of limiting legitimate usage of templates that make editors' work easier. I've no idea what constituency of Wikipedia will agree to limit editors in favor of an external scheme, but it may be time to find out. Keeping also in mind that not all templates will generate COinS-based errors, which makes blanket statements about template use in citations somewhat arbitrary. Until Wikipedia COinS behaves, the suggestion of adding a switch to turn metadata off is an excellent one, and it should be implemented. 65.88.88.91 ( talk) 21:10, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
Hello. I think it would be a good idea to be able to add the Index Theologicus identifier to the templates the way the DOI and the JSTOR identifier are shown. For example, "IxTheo 158777335X" would be displayed with IxTheo hyperlinked and an URL at 158777335X linking to here; so it would look like: " IxTheo 158777335X". This would be useful for articles which do not have a DOI or a JSTOR identifier such as the one used in my example. What do you think? Veverve ( talk) 03:56, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
|id=
, possibly in combination with some formatting template (like exists today with {{
doi}}).
Izno (
talk) 07:30, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
Can we get a tracker for citations with hidden issue/number? such as d AManWithNoPlan ( talk) 12:10, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
Patrie, James (1982), The Genetic Relationship of the Ainu Language, Oceanic Linguistics Special Publications, University of Hawai'i Press, ISBN 978-0-8248-0724-5, JSTOR 20006692. One could argue that volume is the correct parameter. AManWithNoPlan ( talk) 21:03, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
|issue=
should be displayed in that citation; maybe that's the real problem (I really want to write "issue", but I am resisting the urge) here. There are workarounds, of course, like using {{
cite journal}} with |mode=cs2
, but there is no obvious way to know that a workaround is needed unless there is an error message or a tracking category. I would rather see |issue=
displayed in {{
citation}} in this situation, which would obviate the need for tracking. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 21:20, 15 January 2022 (UTC)|issue=
in the periodical templates. The above example looks like a book that is number 17 of the series. Converting to {{
cite journal}}
(or {{
citation}}
with |journal=
) will cause |series=
to be dropped from the metadata; it's only supported by book citations. At
jstor, the sequence number becomes part of the title so one might rewrite the above citation:
{{citation |surname=Patrie |given=James |title=No. 17. The Genetic Relationship of the Ainu Language |series=Oceanic Linguistics Special Publications |publisher=University of Hawai'i Press |year=1982 |isbn=978-0-8248-0724-5 |jstor=20006692 |postscript=.}}
{{citation |surname=Patrie |given=James |title=The Genetic Relationship of the Ainu Language |series=Oceanic Linguistics Special Publications, No. 17 |publisher=University of Hawai'i Press |year=1982 |isbn=978-0-8248-0724-5 |jstor=20006692 |postscript=.}}
|issue=
in book citation templates, we might want to treat them as we do 'ignored' |chapter=
(and aliases) parameters.
This search (times out) suggests that we might want to do that because it will help to catch other misuses of {{
cite book}}
.|volume=
not |issue=
. These are terms with specific, longstanding meaning in publishing and bibliography. A book series consists of volumes. Book series volumes however may or may not consist of issues. In periodicals, "series" has a different meaning, and periodical series volumes almost always consist of issues. In book series, "issue" is never classified (and therefore cited) without the enclosing volume. So "volume" is the necessary value. In periodical series, "volume" is never classified without the included issues. So "issue" is the necessary value. Instead of arbitrarily redefining longstanding practice that is unrelated to citations, ensure that the citation system conforms, and the documentation is clear regarding how and why. This is a simple error, that is made more complicated by the use of {{
citation}}, which does not explicitly signal the type of work to the editor.
68.173.76.118 (
talk) 01:54, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
|series=Oceanic Linguistics Special Publications
|volume=17
, but I can easily imagine that other editors would prefer to hue more closely to what the source actually says about its metadata. When they do, our templates should be prepared to handle it and do something reasonable rather than just dropping the number on the floor. —
David Eppstein (
talk) 02:10, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
The RFC on whether to update the CS1 modules has been closed as "There is support for most changes proposed, and they may be rolled out. There is support for most changes proposed, and they may be rolled out. There is also support for the idea that most typical changes to cs1/2 are uncontroversial and don't need to undergo routine VPR RfCs to be rolled out." The exception to the approved changes is this: "there is no consensus on removal of deprecated parameters in this discussion, and further discussion will be necessary to roll that part out."
The list of proposed changes at that RFC is copied here (from that page):
list of prospective changes
|
---|
changes in Module:Citation/CS1/sandbox
changes in Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration/sandbox
changes in Module:Citation/CS1/Whitelist/sandbox (last update 2021-05-25)
changes in Module:Citation/CS1/Date validation/sandbox
changes in Module:Citation/CS1/Identifiers/sandbox
changes in Module:Citation/CS1/Utilities/sandbox (last update 2021-01-09)
changes in Module:Citation/CS1/COinS/sandbox
changes in Module:Citation/CS1/sandbox/styles.css (last update 2021-01-09)
|
To me, it looks like the next step is to possibly restore the sandboxes to their state as of 28 November 2021 (I think; this is the original RFC posting date), then back out the removal of support for the deprecated parameters. I encourage editors here to look at this outcome as positive. Removal of long-deprecated parameters has been delayed, but that is not a big deal. We will get our first module update in at least half a year, with many updates and improvements. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 01:25, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
[removal of] support for previously deprecated parametersis only listed under ~/Configuration. Those parameters were listed above because support for them was withdrawn at this edit to Module:Citation/CS1/Whitelist (not by me). Removal of those parameters from ~/Configuration merely completes the process. Restoring them to ~/Configuration/sandbox will not make those parameters work again.|booktitle=
,|chapterurl=
,|episodelink=
,|mailinglist=
,|mapurl=
,|nopp=
,|publicationdate=
,|publicationplace=
,|serieslink=
,|transcripturl=
|chapterurl=
, |nopp=
, |publicationdate=
, and |publicationplace=
:
{{cite book |chapter=Chapter |chapterurl=http://www.example.com |title=Title |publicationdate=2022 |publicationplace=Who knows |pages=23–56 |nopp=yes}}
{{
cite book}}
: External link in |chapterurl=
(
help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl=
ignored (|chapter-url=
suggested) (
help); Unknown parameter |nopp=
ignored (|no-pp=
suggested) (
help); Unknown parameter |publicationdate=
ignored (|publication-date=
suggested) (
help); Unknown parameter |publicationplace=
ignored (|publication-place=
suggested) (
help)CS1 maint: location missing publisher (
link)So I think there is no consensus on removal of deprecated parameters in this discussion, and further discussion will be necessary to roll that part out.What kind of discussion? Another RfC? A discussion here on this page? Something else? Where?
|transcripturl=
switches back to deprecated:
{{cite episode/new |series=Series |transcript=Transcript |transcripturl=//example.com}}
{{
cite episode}}
: External link in |transcripturl=
(
help); Unknown parameter |transcripturl=
ignored (|transcript-url=
suggested) (
help){{cite book/new |chapter=Chapter |chapterurl=http://www.example.com |title=Title |publicationdate=2022 |publicationplace=Who knows |pages=23–56 |nopp=yes}}
{{
cite book}}
: External link in |chapterurl=
(
help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl=
ignored (|chapter-url=
suggested) (
help); Unknown parameter |nopp=
ignored (|no-pp=
suggested) (
help); Unknown parameter |publicationdate=
ignored (|publication-date=
suggested) (
help); Unknown parameter |publicationplace=
ignored (|publication-place=
suggested) (
help)CS1 maint: location missing publisher (
link)For the record: the modules were updated per the discussion above on 22 January 2022. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 00:14, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
Is there a valid reason? Does it need to be added to the aliases in the template to remove this error? The purpose of adding it as an alias here is to make easier to find, not to allow users to use as in the template. The RedBurn ( ϕ) 09:40, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
|citation=
has never been a cs1|2 parameter. I do not know what you mean by: The purpose of adding it as an alias here is to make easier to find, not to allow users to use as in the template.Clarify?
|page=
has an alias |p=
so
{{cite book |title=Title |page=123}}
{{cite book |title=Title |p=123}}
Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#RfC:_Block_reFill_tool_until_fixed -- Green C 21:58, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
To prevent these bogus errors
Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 14:49, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
It's featured in the examples but not documented. I'm not confident that I could properly do it, myself. Leotohill ( talk) 23:06, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
{{
cite thesis}}
and
Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration#L-315 as an alias of |publisher=
.Another case of the false positives, though this one might warrant discussions. I'm getting errors for uses of {{ cite map}} with a link in the "inset" parameter, which I thought to be valid. A few examples are at Interstate 90#References. Sounder Bruce 02:38, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
url
parameters (the only exception is |pages=
off the cuff).
Izno (
talk) 02:44, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
To prevent bogus errors in cases like
Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 14:13, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
An article I monitor has this passage:
A 2020 analysis of the schools that send the most students per capita to the highest-ranked U.S. medical, business, and law schools placed the college 10th for medical schools, 16th for business schools, and 10th for law schools. [1]
References
{{
cite book}}
: External link in |via=
(
help)
It started throwing an error message today because of the URLs in |via=
. I want to keep the URLs, as they are far more accessible than the book. But I don't see another place to put URLs to webpages that reproduce the content on three cited pages in a book. Is there a better way to structure this, or if not, is there a way to suppress the error message? {{u|
Sdkb}}
talk 21:16, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
|chapter=
also throws an error, since it's looking for me to use |chapter-url=
instead. Maybe I'll just turn it into three refs so I can do that. That'll also allow better archiving, which as GoingBatty pointed out is a concern for something with annual updates. Cheers, {{u|
Sdkb}}
talk 22:18, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
|via=
isn't currently supported. Could that be changed? {{u|
Sdkb}}
talk 22:01, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
|lay-*=
parameters, which were hacked on in similar fashion). If these are of value, they should be in separate citation templates so they can be fully described for the appropriate reader.
Izno (
talk) 23:05, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
Would it be considered valuable to convert surname/given to last/first on pages that contain a mix of both types. One of the tasks of citation bot has always been "harmonize" styles. Surname is used on a tiny fraction of a percent of pages compared to last/first. AManWithNoPlan ( talk) 13:40, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
|accessdate=
and its five remaining unhyphenated siblings. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 14:05, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
The documentaion for |cite journal=
in the TemplateData section indicates |page=
and |pages=
uses p. or pp. but this is not correct. Is there a way to get this to show as there is a |no-pp=
to supress it?
Keith D (
talk) 14:03, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
|no-pp=
suppresses the 'p.' or 'pp.' annotation in a rendered citation:
{{cite book |title=Title |page=123 |no-pp=yes}}
{{cite book |title=Title |pages=123–132 |no-pp=yes}}
|no-pp=yes
) should be made more explicit in TemplateData.
69.203.140.37 (
talk) 14:54, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
{{
cite journal}}
|no-pp=
is ignored:
{{cite journal |title=Title |journal=Journal |page=123 |no-pp=yes}}
{{cite journal |title=Title |journal=Journal |pages=123–132 |no-pp=yes}}
|no-pp=
entry in
Template:Cite journal § TemplateData may (should) be removed. Further, for |page=
, the 'documentation' text might be changed from:
|pages=
, the 'documentation' text might be changed from:
|volume=
, |issue=
, |page(s)=
parameter renderings for non-journal citations (
which see). Journal citations continue with the style used for academic/scholarly journals.{{
cite magazine}}
to {{
cite journal}}
when the source is not an academic or scholarly journal, then the issue should be taken up with the bot's operators/maintainers. If a bot is changing {{cite magazine}}
to {{cite journal}}
when the source is an academic or scholarly journal, then the bot is doing the correct thing. {{cite magazine}}
should not be used to cite academic or scholarly journals; use {{cite journal}}
for such citations. The reverse is also true: {{cite journal}}
should not be used to cite general readership periodicals; use {{cite magazine}}
for such citations.|page=
or |pages=
just gives a single number which a reader has no idea that it is a page number. You need a way of getting the p. or pp. show to claify what the number is and to make the cite style consistent in an article, regardless of the template used. Using |no-pp=no
would solve the problem or a new parameter to allow the output.
Keith D (
talk) 18:41, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
The "page has extra text" error is visible in situations like this:
{{cite journal |title=Title |journal=Journal |page=p 15}}
{{
cite journal}}
: |page=
has extra text (
help)The error also shows for |page=p. 15
, |page=page 15
, |page=pages 15–19
, and other varieties as expected.
However, it does NOT show an error for uppercase "Page" or "Pages":
{{cite journal |title=Title |journal=Journal |page=Page 15}}
{{cite journal |title=Title |journal=Journal |page=Pages 15–19}}
And I checked the sandbox, just to be sure:
{{cite journal/new |title=Title |journal=Journal |page=Page 15–19}}
{{cite journal/new |title=Title |journal=Journal |page=Pages 15–19}}
Would it be possible and reasonable to adjust the module to also identify these as errors? Thanks! GoingBatty ( talk) 00:32, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
{{cite journal|title=Title|journal=Journal|page=Sentencecaseofanything 10}}
"Title". Journal: Sentencecaseofanything 10.
{{cite journal|title=Title|journal=Journal|volume=Dosametoharmonizewithnonjournals 1|page=Sentencecaseofanything 10}}
"Title". Journal. Dosametoharmonizewithnonjournals 1: Sentencecaseofanything 10.
One of the changes in the recent update (I think
this one) has caused problems. Some magazine instances have e.g. |issue=Fall 2020
, which I had understood to be acceptable usage, and which previously displayed as Smith, Bob. "Title". Foobar Magazine (Fall 2020). Publisher. p. 4.
They now display as Smith, Bob. "Title". Foobar Magazine. No. Fall 2020. Publisher. p. 4.
It's not possible to enter "Fall 2011" into any of the date parameters, and some magazines use that system instead of numbers. How should we resolve this? {{u|
Sdkb}}
talk 01:34, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
{{
cite magazine}}
has not changed. It's not possible to enter "Fall 2011" into any of the date parametersWhy do you think that?
{{cite magazine |author=Smith, Bob |title=Title |magazine=Foobar Magazine |date=Fall 2020 |page=4}}
Formatting of volume/issue/page for {{
cite magazine}}
has not changed.
Hmm, maybe cite magazine was always that way, as I just converted the ref to that from cite news today. But I checked against an archived screenshot and it definitely did change from putting the issue in parentheses to putting it after a "No." that isn't always applicable. An issue name isn't always a number.|date=
. Yet one more issue-related parameter such as "issue-name" seems overkill. And, if you can use an actual date in date or/and an actual issue number you can also add something like this:
|quote-page=Cover|quote=(issue-name)
.If I made citation to Arabic book like
أبو حيان الغرناطي, محمد بن يوسف بن علي بن يوسف بن حيان أثير الدين الأندلسي (1990). رجب عثمان محمد; رمضان عبد التواب (eds.). ارتشاف الضرب من لسان العرب (1 ed.). مكتبة الخانجي بالقاهرة.
The commas direction is left-to-right but the text is right-to-left in "أبو حيان الغرناطي," and "رجب عثمان محمد;". We can not change the commas in Configuration file to be right-to-left because we use the same templates to cite English books.
So I suggest 2 sets of separator configurations one for default left-to-right and another to right-to-left and using is_rtl function of Module:Unicode data to determine the direction of the name and putting the right separator.-- حبيشان ( talk) 06:49, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
,
and ;
with their Arabic versions: ،
(U+060C ARABIC COMMA) and ؛
(U+061B ARABIC SEMICOLON)?
ar:Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration specifies و
(U+0648 ARABIC LETTER WAW) as the separator used in lists.is_Latn()
function that uses the built-in string.find(<parameter_value>, '%a')
. Any Latn-script letter character would be sufficient to force cs1|2 to use Latn-script separator characters otherwise use the local language's separator characters which would be specified in ~/Configuration.is_rtl
making the template universal. English Wikipedia may cite Arabic Book also Arabic Wikipedia cite English books how about citing Cyrillic, Thai or Chinese in Arabic Wikipedia these are not Latin-scripts but left-to-right? --
حبيشان (
talk) 16:49, 26 January 2022 (UTC)I believe we made a change which makes it easier to display variants. This has had the knock on effect for English as well, which we normally hide.
We should probably hide the English variant as well. Izno ( talk) 20:16, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
en-us
:
{{#language:en-us|en}}
→ American Englishen-NZ
:
{{#language:en-NZ|en}}
→ en-NZen-NZ
is not recognized by MediaWiki,
Module:Citation/CS1 declares it an unknown language and emits the maint cat and message; it does not extract the primary subtag for a retry. This is the problem that I have described below. Working on that.de-DE
, sv-SE
, etc). These kinds of tags make up the majority of the articles listed in
Category:CS1 maint: unrecognized language (205).Came here to post about this. Looking forward to the fix! czar 21:21, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
It isn't just English. Before the update, there were 109 articles with unrecognized languages. Now:
Category:CS1 maint: unrecognized language (205). Apparently, visual editor adds region subtags to every language subtag whether needed or not. Apparently, ve sometimes makes up nonsense IETF-like language tags: es-LA
Spanish as spoken in Lao People's Democratic Republic (see
this diff). As a guess, I suppose that LA
was supposed to mean Latin America but the subtag for that is 419
(see IANA
language-subtag-registry file). MediaWiki recognizes es-419
but not es-LA
:
{{#language:es-419|en}}
{{#language:es-LA|en}}
It seems that ve gives every language subtag some sort of region subtag even when there is no need for the region subtag. Samples of the many many tags not recognized by MediaWiki:
{{#language:de-DE|en}}
– German as spoken in Germany{{#language:sv-SE|en}}
– Swedish as spoken in Sweden{{#language:mr-IN|en}}
– Marathi as spoken in IndiaAll of these and the many many others are categorized in Category:CS1 maint: unrecognized language because MediaWiki does not recognize these tags as valid.
It is desirable to recognize regionally differentiated languages when they are supported by MediaWiki:
{{#language:nrf-GG|en}}
{{#language:nrf-JE|en}}
{{#language:pt-BR|en}}
{{#language:pt-PT|en}}
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 15:24, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
Rewritten in the sandbox:
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title (in German). |
Sandbox | Title (in German). |
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title (in Guernésiais). |
Sandbox | Title (in Guernésiais). |
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title (in Brazilian Portuguese). |
Sandbox | Title (in Brazilian Portuguese). |
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title (in European Portuguese). |
Sandbox | Title (in European Portuguese). |
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title. |
Sandbox | Title. |
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title (in Portuguese). |
Sandbox | Title (in Portuguese). |
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title. |
Sandbox | Title. |
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title (in ac).{{
cite book}} : CS1 maint: unrecognized language (
link)
|
Sandbox | Title (in ac).{{
cite book}} : CS1 maint: unrecognized language (
link)
|
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title (in jibberish).{{
cite book}} : CS1 maint: unrecognized language (
link)
|
Sandbox | Title (in jibberish).{{
cite book}} : CS1 maint: unrecognized language (
link)
|
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title (in Colognian). |
Sandbox | Title (in Colognian). |
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title (in Blackfoot). |
Sandbox | Title (in Blackfoot). |
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title (in Blackfoot, Colognian, jibberish, English, Portuguese, English, European Portuguese, Brazilian Portuguese, Jèrriais, Guernésiais, Marathi, Swedish, and German).{{
cite book}} : CS1 maint: unrecognized language (
link)
|
Sandbox | Title (in Blackfoot, Colognian, jibberish, English, Portuguese, English, European Portuguese, Brazilian Portuguese, Jèrriais, Guernésiais, Marathi, Swedish, and German).{{
cite book}} : CS1 maint: unrecognized language (
link)
|
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 17:30, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
Live updated.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 00:47, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
Could someone please replace or remove the redlink Category:CS1 tracked parameters at Help:CS1 errors#Properties category highlighting? Thanks! GoingBatty ( talk) 15:05, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Template talk:Cite wikisource § Multiple scan pages?. Also, should that talk page be merged to here? {{u| Sdkb}} talk 23:52, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
|scan=
parameter, which right now can be called once per template, with guidance to apply a single value (therefore not multiple scan targets).
65.254.10.26 (
talk) 00:13, 26 January 2022 (UTC)For author, editor roles following generic-name changes. As you can see they work, for now.
Example 1
{{cite book|last=Authorlast|editor-last=Editorlast|title=Title}}
Authorlast. Editorlast (ed.). Title.
Example 2
{{cite book|last1=Authorlast1|editor-last1=Editorlast1|title=Title}}
Authorlast1. Editorlast1 (ed.). Title.{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (
link)
Example 3
{{cite book|author=Authorname|editor=Editorname|title=Title}}
Authorname. Editorname (ed.). Title.
What is the proper markup for indicating all three datees and places in {{ cite conference}}:
Also, should |conference=
include Proceeding of or a similar prefix, ot just the name of the conference itself? --
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (
talk) 14:03, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
|date=
and |location=
(along with |publisher=
). |title=
is the title of the authors' paper, |book-title=
is the collection of papers (often titled Proceedings ...). |conference=
is free-form so can hold the name, dates, and location of the conference (if not already part of |book-title=
. Where and when the authors wrote a paper that is presented at a conference seems to me of little value when an en.wiki reader is looking for a copy of that paper. You are citing a published paper in a proceedings so the basics are the same as if you were citing a chapter in a book or an entry in an encyclopedia.See WP:VPT § Broken template. 71.247.146.98 ( talk) 12:59, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
I am seeing this redlinked category showing up at the bottom of Huaynaputina. As far as I know {{ lang}} does not produce such a category with the parameters of the page, but perhaps someone here knows why it's showing up? Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk) 10:26, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
|language=es-419
which MediaWiki interprets as {{#language:es-419|en}}
→ Latin American Spanish. cs1|2 takes language names from MediaWiki.When editing
kernel (operating system), I get the message "Script warning: One or more {{
cite journal}} templates have errors; messages may be hidden (
help). " and the hidden category CS1 errors: missing periodical. I can't find a broken {{
cite journal}}; the Mark I Eyeball shows a |journal=
for every {{
cite journal}}. How do I associate the error message with the relevant markup? --
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (
talk) 17:48, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
Many pages now display the message Script warning: One or more {{cite web}} templates have maintenance messages
in the preview. For example
nirmatrelvir/ritonavir,
remdesivir, and
COVID-19 vaccine. The help page is not useful. What are the maintenance messages? Why don't they appear in preview mode. On the
Nirmatrelvir/ritonavir and
COVID-19 vaccine pages there are also the messages Script warning: One or more {{cite journal}} templates have errors
and again I don't see any messages in the preview. --
Whywhenwhohow (
talk) 06:38, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
error messages are visible to all readersbut there aren't any error messages shown. It also states users should make some changes to view the maintenance messages. That is a hurdle that should not be necessary. The maintenance messages should be visible in preview. -- Whywhenwhohow ( talk) 07:50, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
Script warning: One or more {{cite web}} templates have maintenance messages? GoingBatty ( talk) 02:57, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
{{cite web}}: Cite uses deprecated parameter |lay-url= (help)but I don't see any other messages. -- Whywhenwhohow ( talk) 05:45, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
{{cite document |title=EPIC-HR: Study of Oral PF-07321332/Ritonavir Compared With Placebo in Nonhospitalized High Risk Adults With COVID-19 |url=https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04960202 |publisher=clinicaltrials.gov |date=19 November 2021}}It looks like the citation bot changed cite web to cite document -- Whywhenwhohow ( talk) 05:59, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
|journal=
parameter, I submitted
User talk:Citation bot#Converting Cite web to Cite document creates a CS1_error to ask them to stop converting the citation templates from {{
cite web}} to {{
cite document}}.
GoingBatty (
talk) 13:29, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
.citation-comment {display: inline !important;} /* show all Citation Style 1 error messages */
. Your CSS needs no further change. In
A_Different_Kind_of_Weather for example, you should see a green message after (current) citation 4 to The Encyclopedia of Popular Music.
Izno (
talk) 18:10, 25 January 2022 (UTC)@ Trappist the monk: any help here? Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 15:57, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
Personally, I like the new "... templates have maintenance messages" in the preview. It should alert editors if they introduce a maintenance issue. I have changed my CSS style sheet several times to see more messages when editing. I understand why there are different levels of messaging BUT I do not know what the levels are or how the messages are assigned to a level. I just realized the processing of cite templates changed. The process for changing and implementing templates is unknown to me. I just discovered there is a new url-status= value, "deviated". I will now need to reread the documentation (hope it has been updated). I attribute most of my frustration to differences in the way I and other (some, most) editors think. User-duck ( talk) 19:18, 25 January 2022 (UTC) PS: I find the new "generic name" messages frustrating, why are they an "error" (red), too many false positives, Ed is a perfectly valid first name. I will not work on a category with 30,000+ entries, obviously not important enough for editors and too general to efficiently tackle. User-duck ( talk) 19:18, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
cite webtemplates have maintenance messages; messages may be hidden (help)."
Sub-head: There are many genuinely free-standing documents that are not web pages and not reports.
An article that I watch ( Backslash) cites some old documents that just happen to be accessible by https. They are PDFs. They are not journals, they are not reports, tech or otherwise, they are not web pages. They are documents. Take this one for example:
cite document |title = Bulletin 125, issue 2: Description and Adjustments of the Teletype Wheatstone Perforator |publisher= Teletype Corporation |date=May 1938 | orig-date= August 1937 |url =
http://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/tty125.pdf |page=ii
Almost as a general principle, if the target is a pdf, then it is a document not a web page. The fact that (currently) we use http[s] to access the host directory is just coincidental: a while back we would have used FTP. Would anyone have suggested a template:cite ftp? (rhetorical question, they probably would).
The solution is simple: copy {{ cite report}} changing "(report)" to "(document)".
Salix alba raised this here in June last (
Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 77#cite document ) and got a fatuous reply that I'm amazed they accepted. Pinging @
Jason Quinn: who previously complained at
template talk:cite document#Should not be a redirect and @
MJL: who proposed that the redirect include R with possiblities
. --
John Maynard Friedman (
talk) 12:29, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
{{
cite report}}
isn't a better solution. An example (using {{
lay source}}
because it's handy and will serve as a crude demonstration – ignore the 'Lay summary in: ' prefix):
{{lay source |template=cite report |type=Document |title=Bulletin 125: Description and Adjustments of the Teletype Wheatstone Perforator |issue=2 |publisher=Teletype Corporation |date=August 1937 |url=http://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/tty125.pdf |via=Navy-radio}}
|page=ii
because there is no page ii in the document; also date of the change-notice is not the date of the document|type=Document
would be set internally; all other parameters are whatever an editor would want them to be.|type=
loose leaf
based on the visible perforations of the original.
65.88.88.47 (
talk) 15:45, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
{{
cite document/sandbox}}
→
{{cite document/sandbox |title=Bulletin 125: Description and Adjustments of the Teletype Wheatstone Perforator |issue=2 |publisher=Teletype Corporation |date=August 1937 |url=http://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/tty125.pdf |via=Navy Radio}}
{{
cite document}}
. Spend some time looking at other uses of {{cite document}}
to make sure that a new {{cite document}}
template is appropriate to the vast majority of uses. We should not rely on a sample size of one.I'm not at all convinced that there are many cases of anyone lazily using cite document rather than cite journal for serious academic journals but a bot can readily identify URLs that match one of the major journal publishers.
And you don't address documents that have no online presence?, please review my first sentence:
There have been more than a few citations when I've looked through the "cite journal needs journal" error category where a "cite document" or an adjusted (merged?) "cite report" is needed.
So {{ cite web}} is a better solution?For web-based citations, I think it suffices; the majority if not all the parameters a cite document would have are already in cite web. This is why I think I probably support, if cite document exists, that it should be the only template currently not to accept URL parameters as a way to discourage such. But this idea can be open for discussion, because I'd hate to introduce an exception to how the CS1 system works. Izno ( talk) 21:32, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
Looking at the discussion at User talk:Citation bot/Archive 30#Cite document, the size of the problem with existing [ab]use of cite document is substantial so I guess that work to sort out that mess will have to take priority. -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 21:40, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
|mode=cs1
, so that at least it is using a generic template-type and still formatting as CS1. The actual formatting for this replacement makes it look like a book, in that the title is italicized, but that seems less problematic than explicitly calling it a book using {{
cite book}} or formatting it as a periodical or report. I agree with the original post: cite document should be made to work. The generic case of citations is a case we need. —
David Eppstein (
talk) 22:31, 28 January 2022 (UTC)Hi all.. May i know which parameter should be used in this news: [2], "website=Badminton World Federation" or "publisher=Badminton World Federation"? Stvbastian ( talk) 11:16, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
|website=Wayback Machine
. The publisher of that website is the
Internet Archive.
172.254.162.90 (
talk) 13:58, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
|website=
. Ever. Use the original website name, which is |website=Badminton World Federation
.
Izno (
talk) 16:13, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
|publisher=
(as "Badminton World Federation" does not need to be italicized), and include the live URL and archive-URL, like this:
{{cite press release |last=Alleyne |first=Gayle |url=https://bwfbadminton.com/news-single/2017/03/19/bwf-launches-new-event-structure/ |title=BWF Launches New Event Structure |date=19 March 2017 |publisher=[[Badminton World Federation]] |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20171201164159/http://bwfbadminton.com/news-single/2017/03/19/bwf-launches-new-event-structure/ |archive-date=1 December 2017}}
|website=
and |work=
parameters are useful in determining the reliability of the source only if they refer to the original web site, not to the archival site. --
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (
talk) 21:17, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
I recently encountered an erroneous warning at the Super Mario 64 article. Can someone explain why we have "Houser" listed as a generic name? I have suppressed the error for now. — Coolperson177 ( t| c) 17:05, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
Houser
contains within it the word user
, which is a generic name. If so, this would be a false positive.
Imzadi 1979
→ 17:24, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
{{cite book/new |title=title |last=Houser}}
{{cite book/new |title=title |last=a user}}
{{cite book/new |title=title |last=user login}}
{{cite book/new |title=title |last=a user login}}
{{cite book/new |title=title |last=Super}}
{{cite book/new |title=title |last=superuser}}
{{cite book/new |title=title |last=super user}}
{{cite book/new |title=title |last=super-user}}
"Nienhauser" is another false positive.
{{cite book |last = Boorman |first = Howard L., Richard C. Howard, Associate Editor. |year = 1967 |title = Biographical Dictionary of Republican China Volume I: Ai-Ch'ü|publisher = Columbia University Press| location = New York |isbn = 0-231-08958-9|ref = none}}. , which finds fault with "first= ". ch ( talk) 23:22, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
{{cite book |last = Boorman |first = Howard L., Richard C. Howard, Associate Editor. |year = 1967 |title = Biographical Dictionary of Republican China Volume I: Ai-Ch'ü|publisher = Columbia University Press| location = New York |isbn = 0-231-08958-9|ref = none}}
{{
cite book}}
: |first=
has generic name (
help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)|first=
is wholly malformed and contains the word 'Editor'. The name holding parameter |first=
should hold only the given names and/or initials of the person whose surname is in |last=
. One person per |last=
/ |first=
pair.{{cite book |editor-last=Boorman |editor-first=Howard L. |editor2=Howard |editor-first2=Richard C. |date=1967 |title=Biographical Dictionary of Republican China |volume=I: Ai-Ch'ü |publisher=Columbia University Press |location=New York |isbn=0-231-08958-9 |ref=none}}
|authors=
is discouraged. There used to be |editors=
but support for that has been withdrawn and, someday, support for |authors=
will also be withdrawn. Individual authors should be named in individual |lastn=
/ |firstn=
pairs or in |authorn=
. Same for editors, interviewers, contributors, translators.|authors=
will also be withdrawn.” That seems like a bad idea, considering first and last name are not universal concepts in the world (middlename, family name first, two familynames, no familyname are all concepts used by various cultures). There is a reason that ppl are advising developers to use a single namefield instead of a forced first name lastname, combo these days. —
TheDJ (
talk •
contribs) 01:33, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
|authorn=
parameters won't be going away. All of those middlename, family name first, two familynames, no familyname ... conceptsare easily handled by the enumerated parameters; one person per enumerated parameter.
|authors=
(plural) is free-form and, as you note, human names aren't standardized. To make |authors=
usable by editors who consume cs1|2 citation via the metadata, some sort of code that is clever enough to extract the names of individual humans from the free-form list is needed. Alas, because the list of names is free-form, one cannot rely on standardized name separators. I do not have skill enough to write that code, perhaps you or someone you know has that skill. Write that code and we'll implement it.|author1=
, then |author-others=
}}, or some such? In the Boorman example above, for instance, there were several other editors, but it would have taken more time than it was worth to me to list them all separately. OK, I was lazy, but it was a lazy man who invented the wheel. And the cites would still be to Boorman.
ch (
talk) 04:13, 26 January 2022 (UTC)is producing
This started happening within the last day or two. - Floydian τ ¢ 19:02, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
Could someone please tweak the Lua pattern for %f[%a]user%f[%A]
in
Category:CS1 errors: generic name so it doesn't produce false positives like
10 Canis Majoris and
59 Sagittarii? Simplified version below:
{{cite journal | last1=Tetzlaff | first1=N. | last2=Neuhäuser | first2=R. | title=title | journal=journal }}
Thanks! GoingBatty ( talk) 21:07, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
%a
.
mw.ustring
which does consider it part of %a.
Izno (
talk) 23:14, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
{{cite journal | last1=Hauser | first1=John | title=title | journal=journal }}
Not sure what is going on, but this feature clearly is buggy. -- Mathnerd314159 ( talk) 01:50, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
Hi again! Articles such as 6th State Duma and 109th United States Congress have references with "Editorial" in the author parameter, which are now included in Category:CS1 errors: generic name. Is there another parameter to use for "Editorial" to differentiate the reference from a news article? Thanks! GoingBatty ( talk) 22:22, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
|department=
is probably the best parameter for it; |type=
only if you must. --
Izno (
talk) 22:26, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
|author1=Editorial Board
. I've switched it to |department=
, but that's a very niche thing for us to police with something as strong as an error message. I'd recommend that the filter trigger only on "editor", not "editorial". {{u|
Sdkb}}
talk 21:00, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
|department=
should be used as in the 'department' or section of a newspaper e.g. "Life" or "Editorials", hence why I suggested it in Batty's case. It should not be used for the author.Could someone please tweak the Lua pattern for %f[%a]editor%f[%A]
in
Category:CS1 errors: generic name so it doesn't produce false positives for the last name "Creditor" as it does in
Addisyn Merrick? Simplified version below:
{{Cite web|last=Creditor|first=Avi|title=title|url=//example.com}}
I found 86 such articles. Thanks! GoingBatty ( talk) 00:47, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
{{Cite web/new|last=Creditor|first=Avi|title=title|url=//example.com}}
The flag on
Uyghur genocide#cite_note-AusUygrep628-253 for the |last5=Ruser
seems to be a false positive due the name containing "user". There's also a "One or more {{
cite web}} templates have maintenance messages" error in the same article that I'm unable to figure out. --
Marchjuly (
talk) 13:43, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
{{cite report/new|last1=Xu|first1=Vicky Xiuzhong|last2=Cave|first2=Danielle|last3=Leibold|first3=James|last4=Munro|first4=Kelsey|last5=Ruser|first5=Nathan|title=Uyghurs for sale: 'Re-education', forced labour and surveillance beyond Xinjiang|url=https://www.aspi.org.au/report/uyghurs-sale|publisher=[[Australian Strategic Policy Institute]]|pages=6–28|date=February 2020}}
{{
cite web}}
templates use |url-status=live
without |archive-url=
. |url-status=live
is meaningless without the template also has |archive-url=
with an assigned value. The two templates are
here and
here. Follow the
help link in the preview message to learn how to show maintenance messaging.The name Ed is now popping up a CS1 generic name error at Australian green tree frog. This recent change had worse pre-run bug testing than damn Microsoft. Also, why is it necessary to produce a big red error message rather than just a hidden tracking category, which would do the job just as well? It's like some people would rather dick around with the citation templates and make things harder on real content editors than actually productively create content Hog Farm Talk 22:35, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
|editor1=
or looking at the source to find the actual author name. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 00:44, 28 January 2022 (UTC)Using this template like this gives the generic name error, including when its |author=
param isn't used.
Examples from
2020 Twitter account hijacking:
{{Cite tweet |number=1283591846464233474 |user=TwitterSupport |title= We detected what we believe to be a coordinated social engineering attack by people who successfully targeted some of our employees with access to internal systems and tools. |author=Twitter Support }}
{{
cite web}}
: |author1=
has generic name (
help){{Cite tweet |number=1283591846464233474 |user=TwitterSupport |title= We detected what we believe to be a coordinated social engineering attack by people who successfully targeted some of our employees with access to internal systems and tools. }}
The |author=
as passed to Cite web is, respectfully, Twitter Support [@TwitterSupport]
and @TwitterSupport
-
Einstein95 (
talk) 04:11, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
Twitter
being present in the author, which these citations use. -
Einstein95 (
talk) 06:25, 27 January 2022 (UTC)I've been picking away at
Category:CS1 errors: parameter link where I have noticed quite a few |lastn=News
parameters. Searches:
I propose to add:
{['en' = {'%f[%a][Nn]ews%f[%A]', false},
to the generic names list.
Sandboxed:
Wikitext | {{cite news
|
---|---|
Live | News, BBC. "Title". {{
cite news}} : |last= has generic name (
help)
|
Sandbox | News, BBC. "Title". {{
cite news}} : |last= has generic name (
help)
|
Wikitext | {{cite news
|
---|---|
Live | Newsome, Winsome. "Title". |
Sandbox | Newsome, Winsome. "Title". |
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 17:15, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
Wikitext | {{cite news
|
---|---|
Live | BBC News. "Title". |
Sandbox | BBC News. "Title". |
Wikitext | {{cite news
|
---|---|
Live | News Corp. "Title". |
Sandbox | News Corp. "Title". |
|lastn=News Corp
:
2|firstn=News Corp
:
1|authorn=News Corp
:
no resultsWhen using "Editor" in the |author=
parameter, two CS1 messages are now given: "|author= has generic name" and "CS1 maint: extra text: authors list". Could someone please tweak the modules to remove the overlap so only the error is displayed?
{{cite magazine |author=Editor |title=Title |magazine=Magazine}}
{{
cite magazine}}
: |author=
has generic name (
help)Thanks for your consideration. GoingBatty ( talk) 15:36, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
{{cite magazine/new |author=Editors |title=Title |magazine=Magazine}}
{{
cite magazine}}
: |author=
has generic name (
help){{cite magazine/new |author=Editor |title=Title |magazine=Magazine}}
{{
cite magazine}}
: |author=
has generic name (
help){{cite magazine/new |author=Editorial |title=Title |magazine=Magazine}}
{{cite magazine/new |author=Edited |title=Title |magazine=Magazine}}
{{
cite magazine}}
: |author=
has generic name (
help){{cite magazine/new |author=ed. |title=Title |magazine=Magazine}}
{{
cite magazine}}
: |author=
has generic name (
help){{cite magazine/new |author=eds. |title=Title |magazine=Magazine}}
{{
cite magazine}}
: |author=
has generic name (
help)|author=Joe Smith, ed.
, |author=Joe Smith (ed.)
, |last=Smith
|first=Joe, ed.
and |last=Smith
|first=Joe (ed.)
Thanks!
GoingBatty (
talk) 17:02, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
{{cite magazine/new |author=Joe Smith, ed. |title=Title |magazine=Magazine}}
{{
cite magazine}}
: |author=
has generic name (
help){{cite magazine/new |author=Joe Smith (ed.) |title=Title |magazine=Magazine}}
{{
cite magazine}}
: |author=
has generic name (
help){{cite magazine/new |last=Smith|first=Joe, ed. |title=Title |magazine=Magazine}}
{{
cite magazine}}
: |first=
has generic name (
help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link){{cite magazine/new |last=Smith|first=Joe (ed.) |title=Title |magazine=Magazine}}
{{
cite magazine}}
: |first=
has generic name (
help){{cite magazine/new |author=Ed Smith |title=Title |magazine=Magazine}}
{{cite magazine/new |author=ed. Joe Smith |title=Title |magazine=Magazine}}
{{
cite magazine}}
: |author=
has generic name (
help)Editor GoingBatty has cleared Category:CS1 errors: extra text: volume (972). Error messages associated with that category are hidden. Without objection, I shall unhide those error messages.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 18:44, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
|volume=
parameter?I have an article on my watchlist which has a reference whose authors are listed as "Editors". (I have reason to believe that more specific author names are possible in this case but verifying that would require finding the original 1938 publication, which appears to be offline and in Polish.) It is necessary to have an author for this reference, in order to link to the reference by the harvard citation templates. A "helpful" bot tried to fix the reference by removing its authors altogether, and in doing so broke the harv link, but I've discussed that elsewhere. Here, I want to consider instead the possibility that an author parameter like |author=Editors
should NOT be considered to be an error. It is a common way of indicating that a piece in a periodical is credited to the editorial board of the periodical rather than individually signed. That credit is still necessary, both for linking (above), and as a way of distinguish it from a malformed citation where the authors are accidentally omitted. I can work around it by using |author=((Editors))
but I don't think I should have to. My preference would be for the error message to be removed in this case. (Setting the author to "Someone's name, ed." should still be an error, though.) —
David Eppstein (
talk) 08:21, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
|vauthors=
and |veditors=
parameters. I chose the doubled parentheses because its form mimicked the doubled square bracket and doubled curly braces already in use for wikimarkup – something familiar to en.wiki editors. Until today, I never knew that trippled parentheses had a meaning. This
crude search suggests that there are ~2,000 articles that have something wrapped in trippled parentheses; many of them associated with music so perhaps notice at
WT:WPMU might be in order.|department=Ed. research notes
. If the note has a title use it in |title=
along with the article title. If notes are not common enough to be a regular section, use |at=
. Again, if the note has a title you can insert it there, plus the interpolation [editor note]
. If no title you could just add the interpolation in |at=
. Bibliographic providers often (not always) add such information in the biblio record, so in such cases it can be found relatively easily by somebody reading the annotation info in your citation. If the note has not been indexed anywhere, the information is still good in leading the reader to the exact location that verifies the wikitext.
68.132.154.35 (
talk) 21:10, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
Apologies since this was surely asked before, but a Wikipedia search through TP archives wasn't of any help. Should I put |url-access=limited
or |url-access=registration
?
Template:Cite book#Subscription or registration required seems to imply limited
(since there are other constraints, i.e. the number of people who may borrow the book simultaneously), but the text of the tooltip for registration
fits the situation much better.
Daß
Wölf 21:55, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
|url-status=registration
.
This edit for example.