This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 75 | Archive 76 | Archive 77 | Archive 78 | Archive 79 | Archive 80 | → | Archive 85 |
In normal display mode (what readers see), broken archive urls are ignored except that the module emits an error message. When editors view the same article in preview mode, and when the archive url is an archive.org url, the module uses a modified form of the archive url. The purpose of that is to enable editors to see archive.org's calendar view so that they might choose the url of an appropriate snapshot to replace the malformed archive url in the template. When |archive-url=
holds a malformed archive url, the live module truncates the timestamp from 14 to 6 digits and appends a splat (*
). That used to work. So, I have tweaked the code so that the new preview-mode archive url uses the first six (YYYYMM) or four (YYYY) digits of the timestamp, zero-fills to 14 digits, and then appends the splat. To see this in action, you must edit this section (or page) and preview.
Wikitext | {{cite web
|
---|---|
Live |
"Ask Hal: Frequently Asked Questions to the Blue Sky Rangers". Intellivision Productions. Retrieved November 3, 2008. {{
cite web}} : |archive-url= is malformed: timestamp (
help)
|
Sandbox |
"Ask Hal: Frequently Asked Questions to the Blue Sky Rangers". Intellivision Productions. Retrieved November 3, 2008. {{
cite web}} : |archive-url= is malformed: timestamp (
help)
|
In the above examples, the live version links to a "We're sorry — something's gone wrong" page while the sandbox links to the calendar view.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 19:38, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
|archive-url=
https://web.archive.org/web/20170614
or shorter, the new implementation throws a Lua error in "Module:Citation/CS1/sandbox at line 2379: attempt to index local 'timestamp' (a nil value)."|archive-url=
http://web.archive.org/web/
as an entry shortcut forcing it to take the URL from the |url=
parameter and optionally the timestamp from the |archive-date=
parameter to automatically form archive URLs like
https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.intellivisionlives.com/bluesky/people/askhal/askhal.html
or
https://web.archive.org/web/20170614*/http://www.intellivisionlives.com/bluesky/people/askhal/askhal.html
for the error message, so that editors could utilize our preview to select or create a snapshot from/at archive.org with a minimum amount of keystrokes.Wikitext | {{cite web
|
---|---|
Live |
"Ask Hal: Frequently Asked Questions to the Blue Sky Rangers". Intellivision Productions. Retrieved November 3, 2008. {{
cite web}} : |archive-url= is malformed: timestamp (
help)
|
Sandbox |
"Ask Hal: Frequently Asked Questions to the Blue Sky Rangers". Intellivision Productions. Retrieved November 3, 2008. {{
cite web}} : |archive-url= is malformed: timestamp (
help)
|
Why does {{ Cite magazine}} emit volume in upper case: {{cite magazine|title=Some title|magazine=Some Magazine|volume=17}} -> "Some title". Some Magazine. Vol. 17. ? -- Michael Bednarek ( talk) 09:23, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
If you specify just one author and then invoke display-authors=1, you get an error. You need to specify an author2 to make it go away (even though author2 isn't displayed!). Urhixidur ( talk) 15:19, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
|display-authors=2
:
|display-authors=2
becomes meaningless. When there are more than two authors and you only want to display one of their names, then |display-authors=1
will suppress display of the second author name and add et al. to the rendering:
|display-authors=etal
to indicate that the work has more authors whose names are not shown:
<span class=warning style="font-size:100%">Harv warning: There is no link pointing to this citation. The anchor is named CITEREFFirst_Author.</span>
class=warning
going away? If it is, I should change the warning markup to:
<span style="color:#ac6600">Harv warning: There is no link pointing to this citation. The anchor is named CITEREFFirst_Author.</span>
Peeking at Category:CS1 errors: markup, I see it doesn't include fields like "title". I'm in the process of cleaning up lots of HTML entities (which shouldn't be in these fields either), and I've seen lots of instances of double single quotes (''...'') in the title field. On Wikipedia, this will make italics, but apparently italics are not allowed in COinS fields? Is this something that should be systematically fixed? -- Beland ( talk) 07:48, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
|title=
may be the source (as in {{
cite book}}), or a location within the source (as in {{
cite journal}}). This is pertinent, because the title value is auto-formatted differently. In the case of title=source it would be in italics. Including italics markup, would cause the affected text to display in straight type. Because of the fundamental error of mis-defined and mis-applied parameters, more convoluted acrobatics have to be employed. Good luck!
65.88.88.57 (
talk) 11:48, 9 August 2021 (UTC)|title=
. We might create a maintenance category to track bold markup in |title=
, |chapter=
and aliases. Such categorization must be mindful of '''s
(possessive form of italicized text).|title=
.
65.88.88.57 (
talk) 11:48, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
{{
cite web}}
, {{
cite journal}}
, etc), cs1|2 adds kerning when the title text has leading or trailing quote marks
{{cite periodical |title='leading' quote and trailing "quote" |periodical=Periodical}}
|title=
if that is how the source is formatted, only as a help for the reader. There may be a minority of readers for whom anything but exact representation may cause confusion. However this additional emphasis should not be a requirement, just as (generally) adherence to case is not a requirement. There is already the semantic emphasis built in to the presentation of the work argument, and the occasional emphasis on |volume=
(depending on day of the week, or something). This should be enough to attract readers' attention to the most important information in the citation. But there may be another minority of readers for whom any added emphasis may confuse.
65.88.88.57 (
talk) 12:16, 9 August 2021 (UTC){{cite periodical |title=''Possessive italics'''s in title |periodical=Periodical}} and some trailing text
{{cite web}}
template: please make the title
parameter optionalFor web sources, specifying titles often is not necessary but makes code longer and wastes editor’s time. There is no reason to make it required. Let editors decide whether the title is needed. VSL0 ( talk) 03:58, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
{{cite web}}
template is often used just for referencing (providing the source of information), not necessary for a citation.
VSL0 (
talk) 04:45, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
@
GoingBatty: @
GreenC: @
Headbomb: The purpose of using {{cite web}}
may be just providing the link to the source with specifying its date
or access-date
in a standard way. In case of accessible web sources there may be no need for knowing their titles in advance (especially if they don’t represent books, articles, publications), and this is enough for making the title
parameter optional. Could anyone modify the template?
VSL0 (
talk) 07:44, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
|title="Webpage Title"
is concerned, it is rather helpful to the lay reader, the same way an in-source location such as "chapter" or "page" would be in print. The related comments below are also pertinent.
65.88.88.46 (
talk) 15:51, 11 August 2021 (UTC)@ Amakuru: @ Nthep: I rather agree, and the topic may be considered closed. VSL0 ( talk) 11:52, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
IMO now theoretical since the discussion is closed anyway, the purpose of a citation on Wikipedia is to facilitate finding and verifying a source. The citation is a means to an end. If a title exists, it would be so significant to finding the source it would be required. If no title exists, I don't know. Would need to see examples. Often in those cases the title is descriptive eg. "Facebook post by A_User on a Topic". -- Green C 16:46, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
Hello, there appears to be some spacing problem in the |issue=
field of {{
cite news}} it appears to add a space after the comma for some reason.
{{cite news |title=The new Exchange railway station at Bradford |work=The Leeds Mercury |issue=14,479 |date=3 September 1884 |location=Column F |page=3}}
"The new Exchange railway station at Bradford". The Leeds Mercury. No. 14, 479. Column F. 3 September 1884. p. 3.
Keith D ( talk) 19:41, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
{{cite news |title=The new Exchange railway station at Bradford |work=The Leeds Mercury |issue=((14,479)) |date=3 September 1884 |location=Column F |page=3}}
|volume=
, |number=
, |issue=
,|pages=
, |pp=
, |quote-pages=
use the same code, and it would be highly unintuitive, if they would use different rules and syntaxes. --
Matthiaspaul (
talk) 08:58, 18 July 2021 (UTC)
|issue=
, |number=
or |volume=
might need to contain a list. In my experience, they're always single values, and should be treated as such. |pages=
is a different matter, and we do provide it as a parameter distinct from |page=
to recognise the fact that a list may often be required. --
Redrose64 🌹 (
talk) 09:11, 18 July 2021 (UTC)
|issue=14,479,800
would be interpreted as three items "14, 479, 800" and |issue=((14,479)),800
as two items "14,479, 800", but |issue=14,479;800
would be interpreted as "14,479, 800" instead of "14, 479, 800". The scheme would only work for arguments containing lists, that is, a single item like "14,479" would still require the accept-as-is syntax |issue=((14,479))
to keep it from being interpreted as two list items "14, 479". So, effectively, this would still require the usage of a special syntax, but at least some cases might be more intuitive to write than before. Also, it is important to understand that if a scheme like this would be implemented it would work for all parameters taking argument lists for reasons of consistency.So are we anywhere near a consensus to either:
Nthep ( talk) 19:38, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
It seems to me that there |url-status=
needs another option, for a webpage which is live and has not been usurped, but where the current version no longer contains the cited info.
I have been archiving the refs on the article
Paul Gogarty (an Irish politician), and the page
http://www.paulgogarty.com/about/ was cited in 2009 as a ref for the assertion that he joined the Green Party in 1989 as a student
. That current live age doesn't say that, because Gogarty left the Green party 10 years ago, and has been an independent since 2011. So his biog page now focuses more on his status as an independent.
However, the relevant facts are in an archived version of the page, from 2009: https://web.archive.org/web/20151229222337/http://www.paulgogarty.com/about/
I was unsure what value to give for |url-status=
. None of the options was a good fit:
|url-status=live
makes the current version the primary link, which is not helpful|url-status=usurped
would be untrue, because the domain has not been usurped|url-status=unfit
initially seemed like the best option, but it does not link the original URL, which seems unhelpful|url-status=dead
isn't strictly true, because the original page is still live ... but this option does link the original URLSo in this edit
[1] I used |url-status=dead
as the least-worst option.
However, it would be better to have some option which more accurately describes the situation. Maybe |url-status=rewritten
or |url-status=revised
?
It seems to me that this situation is not uncommon, so there should be an option which supports it. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 06:03, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
|url-status=revised
(or |url-status=updated
or |url-status=changed
) as short for changed and no longer containing the cited information and linking to an archived version would be more informative than shoe-horning |url-status=dead
. —
Jts1882 |
talk 07:53, 17 June 2021 (UTC)|url=
and |archive-url=
links. Perhaps |url-status=outdated
would transport that message? --
Matthiaspaul (
talk) 12:08, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
|url-status=outdated
, |url-status=substituted
, |url-status=replaced
, and |url-status=archived
came to my mind so far. Perhaps archived
would be the most universal one as it does not make a statement in regard to the potentially changed contents of the live site and its validity, just that an archived snapshot exists (and therefore can be linked to if the editor wants to). Codewise, this would be treated as an alias to dead
for now.Gogarty joined the Green Party in 1989 as a student.<ref>{{cite web |title=Profile of Paul Gogarty TD |work=Paul Gogarty's website |access-date=2009-06-19 |url=http://www.paulgogarty.com/index.php/about/ |url-status=archived |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20151229222337/http://www.paulgogarty.com/about/ |archive-date=2015-12-29}}</ref>
{{
cite web}}
: Invalid |url-status=archived
(
help)|url-status=archived
is all that meaningful. Looking at the wikitext of your example template, a generic editor might think, "of course its archived, it has |archive-url=
..." If this new keyword (presuming that we can find one), is to convey the meaning that the original url no longer supports our article's text, then that keyword should be sufficiently descriptive to convey that meaning. |url-status=archived
doesn't do it for me.|url-status=blacklisted
changes because they won't work; your change will be swept away by that revert.|url-status=diverging/diverged
, |url-status=deviating/deviated
, |url-status=differing/differed/different
or |url-status=drifted
?|url-status=archive-verified
. It's not going to be intuitive regardless, and we're probably not going to be able to find a single word to do what you want.
Izno (
talk) 18:15, 7 July 2021 (UTC)|url-status=invalid
would be too close to |url-status=unfit
and imply either gross or corrupt contents or an error, but |url-status=invalidated
would convey the message that there once actually was valid contents (as verifiable by the archived snapshot - somewhat in line with Izno's archive-verified
above), that there was a change in contents, and that the current one isn't good any more, but still not dead, or unfit, or usurped... Perhaps
BrownHairedGirl,
Jts1882, or
Amakuru have ideas for even better keywords?|url-status=revised/updated/changed
) were the best one word options I could think of. Izno's |url-status=archive-verified
conveys the right message that the content was verifiable and can still be checked in the archive. —
Jts1882 |
talk 09:01, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
live
, dead
, unfit
and usurped
also do not convey all implied meanings associated with them, but they come close enough to be memorizable.archive-verified
is too long IMO, and, while true, it is also a bit too much on the policy side - I mean, we do not necessarily need to explicitly state in the keyword that the contents is verified (verifiable from the archive), because that's what
WP:RS need to be in the first place. What's more important to convey is that the live contents has changed and deviates from the former contents which supported the statement.|url-status=revised/updated/changed
would be nice short keywords to reflect the change in general, but they miss a notion of the original information not being supported any more. |url-status=substituted/replaced/reworked
do convey that message better, but are perhaps a bit too close to |url-status=usurped
already, after all, substitution or replacement could also indicate a site holding completely new information rather than a page that is still rooted in the original one, but has changed enough (just) to no longer support the statement. IMO, |url-status=diverged
or |url-status=deviated
transports that message quite well. |url-status=invalidated
could do it as well (and even has a notion of former validation/verifiability), but is closer to |url-status=unfit
already. None of them implies the existence of an archived snapshot, but the existing keywords don't do that as well, so this is not necessarily a bad thing. If we would want to put the emphasis on the availabilty of an archive rather than the reasons for why it might be necessary to refer to it, |url-status=archived
could be a suitable purely descriptive option as well. Finally, here is another one which (only indirectly) implies change and a need to recover the original information, but also has aspects of information being archived and verified: |url-status=retrievable
.|url-status=ex-valid
or |url-status=ex-support
where the ex-
prefix denotes 'former' as in 'ex-president'. Assuming that we settle on some appropriate keyword, what does the module do with that keyword? Render same as |url-status=dead
? Render same as |url-status=unfit
(no original link)? Something else?|url-status=historical
?|url-status=dead
.
Nurg (
talk) 04:55, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
|url-status=dead
.|url-status=descended/inherited/ancestral/supplanted/superseded
?|url-status=dead
called |url-status=historical
and an alias for |url-status=live
called |url-status=current
, with a view to eventually deprecating "live" and "dead"? Or something like that?
Nurg (
talk) 05:15, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
archived
keyword in the sandbox for illustration purposes, which, however, was reverted by Trappist and Izno).historical
, I first thought this would be a good match, but later it occured to me that |url-status=historical
could also be interpreted to mean just the opposite of what we want to express, as if the current page at the URL would be the historical one.current
and from what you wrote about deprecating dead
, I take it that you want to replace the currently assigned keyword(s) by (presumably) better one(s). This would be different from the original proposal where we were/are seeking for a keyword to define a separate new state for |url-status=
which just happens to render the same (at least at present) as what we do for |url-status=dead
. However, a dead URL is an URL for which your browser would not get any response at all any more when queried, whereas when querying an outdated/deviated/superseded page you would still get contents, even sensible contents, which can be seen as a continuation of the original contents, but just changed in ways so that its contents no longer supports the article any more.|url-status=deviated
to be the most suitable one. It is reasonably short, a single keyword, and it implies something that is still live and not usurped, but changed enough from something that was once found good enough to support the article, but not changed drastically enough to be unfit for presentation. If there are no objections or better suggestions, I will implement that.{{cite web |title=Profile of Paul Gogarty TD |work=Paul Gogarty's website |access-date=2009-06-19 |url=http://www.paulgogarty.com/index.php/about/ |url-status=deviated |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20151229222337/http://www.paulgogarty.com/about/ |archive-date=2015-12-29}}
|url-status=
situation.|archive-url=
, extract the original link from it for |url=
and set |url-status=
so that the two links are swapped. I would typically use the keyword "dead" for it, but as others have stated already, this isn't exactly intuitive and might even be misleading at times. Adding the archived version to |url=
will, in most cases, cause some bot to fix up the citation later on.|url-status=
has a utility value for editors, that's exactly why it should have a well-defined set of non-misleading keywords to cover all practical cases, even if some of them would be handled the same by the software internally. --
Matthiaspaul (
talk) 13:06, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
Citations are not historical information, nor are they future statements.
in terms of how the cite formats itself this will probably end up similar to "dead". My goal is to assist editors by providing a more explicit label to achieve that. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 09:53, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
blacklisted
(or the politically correct term du jour) might be one to add. When |url=
has a blacklisted url, the blacklist prevents saving of the article. To get round that, editors add an |archive-url=
and either comment out, remove, or otherwise break the value in |url=
so that the page will save. This gives a link to a snapshot of the source but also creates |archive-url=
requires |url=
errors. |url-status=blacklisted
would allow |url=
to be blank (commented) or missing;
Module:Citation/CS1 would not emit error messages but would emit a maintenance category.|url-status=blacklisted
.Wikitext | {{cite web
|
---|---|
Live | "Title". Boomerocity.com. {{
cite web}} : |access-date= requires |url= (
help); |archive-url= requires |url= (
help); Invalid |url-status=blacklisted (
help); Missing or empty |url= (
help)
|
Sandbox | "Title". Boomerocity.com. {{
cite web}} : |access-date= requires |url= (
help); |archive-url= requires |url= (
help); Invalid |url-status=blacklisted (
help); Missing or empty |url= (
help)
|
{{
cite book}}
for |chapter-url=
. In this example, |chapter-url=<!-- blacklisted https://www(dot)boomerocity(dot)com/moonbeam-parade(dot)html blacklisted -->
(where (dot) is a dot):Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | "Chapter". Title. {{
cite book}} : |access-date= requires |url= (
help); |archive-url= requires |url= (
help); Invalid |url-status=blacklisted (
help)
|
Sandbox | "Chapter". Title. {{
cite book}} : |access-date= requires |url= (
help); |archive-url= requires |url= (
help); Invalid |url-status=blacklisted (
help)
|
|chapter-url=
it cannot know to apply |archive-url=
to |chapter=
.Wikitext | {{cite web
|
---|---|
Live |
"Title". BlacklistedWebsite.com. Archived from
the original on 2021-07-06. Retrieved 2021-07-06. {{
cite web}} : Invalid |url-status=blacklisted (
help)
|
Sandbox |
"Title". BlacklistedWebsite.com. Archived from
the original on 2021-07-06. Retrieved 2021-07-06. {{
cite web}} : Invalid |url-status=blacklisted (
help)
|
http://
or https://
until the line item found in
MediaWiki:Spam-blacklist; see
mw:Extension:SpamBlacklist#Performance. So for the boomerocity.com archive url
here, https://web.archive.org/web/20200122204730/https://boomerocity(dot)com
will match /https?:\/\/[a-z0-9\-.]*\bboomerocity\.com\b/Si
.|archive-url-status=
.{{Cite web |title=Title |website=BlacklistedWebsite.com |url=http://blacklisted_url.com|archive-url=http://blacklisted_url.com-some_archive.org |archive-date=2021-07-06 |access-date=2021-07-06 |url-status=blacklisted|archive-url-status=blacklisted}}
{{Cite web |title=Title |website=BlacklistedWebsite.com |url=<!--http://blacklisted_url.com-->|archive-url=<!--http://blacklisted_url.com-some_archive.org--> |archive-date=2021-07-06 |access-date=2021-07-06 |url-status=blacklisted|archive-url-status=blacklisted}}
|url=original-url.com
is auto-formatted when |url-status=dead
, for example, to |url=archived-url.com
(and the static text too).
65.88.88.57 (
talk) 20:19, 6 July 2021 (UTC)Hi, this is a followup to a recent but meanwhile archived discussion at Help talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_75#Issue_with_{{{issue}}}, which was about converting double-hyphens and triple-hyphens in page ranges to en dashes and em dashes.
I originally implemented that on 2020-11-17 based on some suggestion that double-hyphens could occur in BibTeX entries and thereby could end up here as well occasionally. Unfortunately, I introduced a bug into the code trashing stripmarkers ("never do any last-minute changes after having already tested the code..." ;-) and because I could not locate the original discussion any more, it was removed rather than fixed. Well, I still haven't found the original discussion, so it probably wasn't here, but I just ran into a site (by renowned Nelson H. F. Beebe) excessively using double-hyphens in (hundreds of) BibTeX citations, so I thought I would drop a link here just for reference:
http://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/bstj1930.html
Since we are doing all kinds of plausibility checks and also some on-the-fly conversions (including with pages and page ranges), I still think we should cover this case. After all, a double-hyphen in a page range can never be part of the page designation itself and the only reasonable interpretation is as an endash in a page range. The alternative to just silently converting them to improve our display and make our metadata output more consistent would be to throw a maintenance message, but this would require more code. -- Matthiaspaul ( talk) 12:46, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
I often need to cite material from a tree-structured document with no page numbers. Typically there is a sidebar for navigation. If section foo.bar.baz has a stable URL then I can use |section-url=
, but often there is none. Ideally I would like to mark it up with something like
{{cite document | title = Manual with nested sections and no page numbers | section-1 = foo | section-2 = bar | section-3 = baz }}
However, nothing like |section-n=
is implemented. |section=foo: bar: baz
and |section=foo - bar - baz
look clunky. What is the best way to mark up such citations? --
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (
talk) 16:42, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
|section1=
, |section2=
, |section3=
your next request will be for |section-url1=
, |section-url2=
, |section-url3=
, etc. And, how would that render? cs1|2 citations are complex enough, I don't think that we should be making them more complex by attempting to cite multiple sources with a single template. As an aside, this is why I want to do away with |lay-url=
and its companions.{{cite manual |title=Manual with nested sections and no page numbers |at=§foo, §bar, §[//example.com baz]}}
{{
cite document}}
to cite a manual. {{cite document}}
is a redirect to {{
cite journal}}
. Why? Don't know; it really ought not to redirect there... {{
cite manual}}
as I used here is a redirect to {{
cite book}}
.This looks like you are trying to cite multiple sources with a cs1|2 template that is designed to cite one source at a time., since the first three sentences clearly are describing a single source that is at a third level branch of the navigation sidebar. That is, on the navigation bar of the web page, you have something like
|section<n>=
parameters, you still have some sort of clunkyrendering if you want all of those hierarchical names in the rendered citation:
|section=Content entry for subsubsection baz of subsection bar of foo
sufficient?|level-n-section=
then I could live with whatever rendering they chose. I'd probably prefer "level-1 > level-2 > level-3", but that's a nit.|section=Content entry for subsubsection baz of subsection bar of foo
is sufficient. --
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (
talk) 19:10, 13 August 2021 (UTC)Is there a way to put an Identificativo SBN (Italian identifier) in Cite book and similar templates?-- Carnby ( talk) 08:10, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
others=SBN 123456
. Otherwise you have to request an addition to the template: I have no idea how you would do that. --
John Maynard Friedman (
talk) 09:53, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
|others=
is for 'other' contributors; not for miscellaneous identifiers.|id=Identificativo SBN: <identifier number>
|id={{
ICCU|number}}
. (It is not named {{
SBN}} because of the name conflict with the
ISBN predecessor.)This citation:
{{
citation}}
: External link in |title=
(
help)is throwing a CS1 error "External link in |title= (help)". But obviously it wouldn't work to use |title-link=
(the only suggestion at the help link) because the three components of this multi-component work need to be linked separately. Can anyone suggest a way to make this citation work without errors and without splitting it into three separate citations? All I would really want is to disable the CS1 error message, because except for that message the citation template appears to format the citation adequately. —
David Eppstein (
talk) 17:14, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
{{citation
| last = Theil | first = H. | authorlink = Henri Theil
| journal = Nederl. Akad. Wetensch., Proc.
| pages = [https://www.dwc.knaw.nl/DL/publications/PU00018789.pdf 386–392], [https://www.dwc.knaw.nl/DL/publications/PU00018803.pdf 521–525], [https://www.dwc.knaw.nl/DL/publications/PU00018886.pdf 1397–1412]
| title = A rank-invariant method of linear and polynomial regression analysis
| volume = 53
| year = 1950}}
|pages=
and friends. It might be a good idea to consider to do the same for |volume=
, |number=
and |issue=
as well in order to better support various kinds of multi-partite publications (currently we don't, so adding the links to those parameters would, while still looking nice, mess up the metadata).|part=
parameter. Even
COinS has a special attribute for this (rft.part
, which we do not use at present), indicating that this is really something we are lacking support for in our current implementation. As far I see it, parts are typically displayed following the title, but before volumes.|page-linkn=
, this assumes the editor should match the link number to the page sequence in |pages=
.
66.108.237.246 (
talk) 13:33, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
|page-linkn=
parameters. |pages=
and friends already support page ranges, page lists as well as external links without messing up the metadata. (|volume=
, |number=
and |issue=
don't support external links at present, though.) Hence, there is no need for a separate |page-linkn=
parameter to provide links. Associating the nth-link with a particular list item would considerably complicate the code. --
Matthiaspaul (
talk) 20:41, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
The following throws an error, but it's resolving correctly
Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 09:27, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
Fixed in the sandbox.
Wikitext | {{cite journal
|
---|---|
Live | O'Mullane DM (2016). "Fluoride and Oral Health". Community Dental Health (33): 69–99. doi: 10.1922/CDH_3707O’Mullane31. |
Sandbox | O'Mullane DM (2016). "Fluoride and Oral Health". Community Dental Health (33): 69–99. doi: 10.1922/CDH_3707O’Mullane31. |
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 11:51, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
Some publications give a date as year and quarter, but, e.g., |date=3Q 1984
, yields an error message:
"foo" (Document). 3Q 1984.
{{ cite document}}
: Check date values in:|date=
( help); Cite document requires|publisher=
( help)
Is there a legitimate way to enter a quarter in |date=
? --
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (
talk) 14:49, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
{{cite journal |title=foo |journal=Journal |date=Third Quarter 1984}}
issue=
rather than (or even as well as) date=
?
{{cite journal |title= The unbearable brightness of fooing |journal=Journal of Forensic Fooology |date=1984 |issue=Third Quarter 1984 |first=John |last=Doe}}
Some journals use the month or season of publication, or just a number instead of the volume and issue numbers. Enter these details after the journal title in your reference list.
|date=
or |year=
) is rendered after the author list. It has been thus since forever. Editors at en.wiki commonly provide seasonal dates:
|date=ordinal quarter year
documented? Shouldn't it be included in the table of examples? --
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (
talk) 16:56, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
References
This should not throw an error. Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 03:52, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
We have this ref at United Airlines Flight 175
It's cited to a page on "NEFA Foundation", which isn't exactly reliable, but the report is the FBI's. The same report can be found on their website, but split into two portions (part-01-of-02, part-02-of-02) (perhaps for file size reasons). FBI site: [2] [3]. How can we use the URLs from fbi.gov directly, but only using one cite tag? ProcrastinatingReader ( talk) 13:54, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
{{cite web |url=https://vault.fbi.gov/9-11%20Commission%20Report/9-11-chronology-part-02-of-02/ |title=Hijackers' Timeline (Redacted) (part 2 of 2) |website=Federal Bureau of Investigation |date=November 14, 2003 |access-date= |ref={{sfnref|''Federal Bureau of Investigation''|2003}}}}
}}
brackets and Mediawiki's closing </ref>
tag:
[4]
[5]|pages=
parameter instead.|urln=
parameters would be that the extra links could be displayed immediately following the title instead of at the end of the main citation, like:
|type=
parameter (which does not become part of the COinS metadata) could be used to produce a more reasonable rendering of multiple links - without solving the underlying problems with handling multiple dates and archive links, of course. However, while the current live version of the template does not produce any error message, the sandboxed version will throw an "External link in |type=" error (per
Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_77#url_in_name_parameters). For illustration purposes only:
{{
cite web}}
: External link in |type=
(
help)|type=
. Perhaps this could be combined with the rendering of what an already proposed |part=
parameter would produce (if we would allow external links there).Inspired by the discussion at Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#Undesirable_behaviour_of_issue=_in_cite_magazine_when_the_issue_is_a_month_or_months, I wonder if we should add support for two more date range formats allowed by our MOS, but not supported by CS1/CS2 at present:
Ranges with consecutive month names or years separated by "/" instead of "–". At present, they have to be "converted" into en-dash ranges:
For as long as only (non-digit) month names and/or 4-digit years are involved they appear to be free from any possible ambiguities.
The reason why it might be good to support them in citations is that, in the context of publications, if date ranges are used at all, they most often involve consecutive (weeks,) months or years, and if they are printed on a publications' cover, most often slashes are used rather than en-dashes, so a slash would look more "natural" in a citation when citing from, i.e., a bimonthly publication. It may also make entry of those ranges easier.
-- Matthiaspaul ( talk) 17:32, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
a givenNo, that's a waste of our time to entertain the idea. Please get support there first. Izno ( talk) 21:53, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
{{
cite journal}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help).I have hacked an experiment to make {{
literatur/sandbox}}
invoke a lua module. That is discussed at
Template talk:Literatur § lua module experiment.
Because that template is supposed to be subst'd when used, for the experimental module to work with the live
Module:Citation/CS1, it will be necessary to change {{
citation}}
as I did to {{
citation/new}}
with
this edit. Without that change, the subst returns the content of the citation template:
{{#invoke:citation/CS1/sandbox|citation
|CitationClass=citation
}}
and that is a pretty much pointless {{
citation}}
: Empty citation (
help).
If the {{literatur/sandbox}}
experiment is successful, then it makes some sense to do the same thing for other translation templates:
{{
Cita news}}
– requires the subst fix for {{
cite news}}
and {{
cite book}}
{{
Cita libro}}
– requires the subst fix for {{cite book}}
{{
Cite web/German}}
– these require the subst fix for {{cite web}}
{{
Cite web/Finnish}}
{{
Cite web/Swedish}}
{{
Cite web/Portuguese}}
{{
Cite web/Danish}}
{{
Cite web/French}}
{{
Cite web/Polish}}
no doubt there are other translation templates (some of this list I found in Category:Infobox importer templates – why there?) You might think that there is a subcategory in Category:Citation Style 1 templates for translation templates ... There isn't.
So, I propose to modify {{citation}}
, {{cite book}}
, {{cite news}}
, and {{cite web}}
so that translation templates can be subst'd.
Opinions? Objections?
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 20:03, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
{{
citation}}
templates so I created a test page (not saved) that had 1000 of this (grabbed from
Module:Citation/CS1/testcases):
{{citation| url=http://books.google.ca/books?id=WrkzPcxBnLMC |title=Takhta untuk Rakyat: Celah-celah Kehidupan Sultan Hamengku Buwono IX |trans-title=Serving the People: The Life Story of Sultan Hamengku Buwono IX |language=Indonesian |isbn=978-979-22-6767-9 |editor1-first=Mohamad |editor1-last=Roem |editor1-link=Mohamad Roem |editor2-first=Mochtar |editor2-last=Lubis |editor2-link=Mochtar Lubis |editor3-first=Kustiniyati |editor3-last=Mochtar |editor4-first=Maimoen |editor4-last=S. |last=Nasution |first=A. H. |author-link=Abdul Haris Nasution |publisher=Gramedia Pustaka Utama |location=Jakarta |year=2011 |origyear=1982 |edition=Revised}}
{{citation}}
templates to {{
citation/new}}
. Previewing the page again, only 604 template rendered before post‐expand include size limit was exceeded. The various times from the NewPP limit report were:
{{
ifsubst}}
to choose between the subst'd form of the #invoke
and the un-subst'd form
{{citation/new}}
is:
{{
citation/subst}}
template that the translation template could call. The inside of that template would have the substable version of the
Module:Citation/CS1 #invoke
so when subst'd, would return a normal {{citation}}
template except with the {{citation/subst}}
name. If subst'd we might include a maint cat so that {{citation/subst}}
might be manually tweaked back to {{citation}}
. Perhaps a tweak to
Module:Unsubst to add an expicit template-name override parameter to that would be in order... I'll ponder these ideas. For now, the subst experiment at {{citation/new}}
has been reverted.{{
citation/subst}}
which can be called by the translator module. Without modification to
Module:Unsubst, the resulting substitution of a {{
Literatur/sandbox}}
template is a {{citation/subst}}
template. I have tweaked
Module:Unsubst/sandbox so that {{citation/subst}}
can supply an alternate name (in the current case, |$template-name=citation
). When substing a {{Literatur/sandbox}}
template using the Unsubst sandbox, the resulting substitution is a {{citation}}
template. This, I think, solves the problem because {{citation/subst}}
is only called by translation templates that need substing and then once subst'd, the template is a normal cs1|2 template.Category:CS1 errors: unsupported parameter includes 22 pages in the Wikipedia namespace: 14 AFD pages, and 8 pages from the Signpost.
These pages should not be edited, so they are perma-clutter in this cleanup category.
Please can the CS1/2 module(s) be modified to stop categorising citation errors in these pages? Cleanup categories should be capable of being fully cleaned up, but the inclusion of these pages prevents that. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 01:47, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
|no-tracking=yes
parameter to the offending citation. But this requires editing as well, of course.|no-tracking=yes
. It leaves the citation template as it was, shows the error messages, but keeps the page out of error categories.|no-tracking=yes
is the least intrusive solution, so I will do that. --
BrownHairedGirl
(talk) • (
contribs) 18:02, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
Hello, http://reftag.appspot.com/ has been generating this error message for most of this week. Reftag shortens a googlebook url and usually provides the complete cite book reference, including ISBN. Reftag is mentioned in See also at the end of this article Template:Cite book. It is also the topic of this article here.
Error: Server Error The server encountered an error and could not complete your request.
Please try again in 30 seconds.
Nothing improves in 30 seconds or 3 days. Has the link for this helpful tool in Cite Book format been changed?
Thanks. -- Prairieplant ( talk) 04:07, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
Template:Cite_serial#In-source_locations says that |season=
is a supported parameter.
But at
Amy's Choice (Doctor Who)#Continuity (
permalink to current version), two refs using |season=
are throwing a error:
{{
cite serial}}
: Unknown parameter |season=
ignored (|date=
suggested) (
help){{
cite serial}}
: Unknown parameter |season=
ignored (|date=
suggested) (
help)How can this be fixed? -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 02:59, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
|series=
instead? In any case, this is the correct term for post-revival Doctor Who, see
WP:WHO/MOS#Terminology. --
Redrose64 🌹 (
talk) 07:31, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
|series=
is already in use.|season=
was withdrawn from {{
cite serial}}
with
this edit which updated the wikitext version of the template to use {{
citation/core}}
.{{cite serial}}
doc.No doubt this is in the archives but I can't find it. Take for example this citation:
The issue is "November/December 2005", it is nonsense to show it as "no. November/December 2005". The same problem would occur with "issue=Spring 2021" etc. Surely in the case where issues are numbered, the correct argument to use is "number="? How does it make sense to add a "no." prefix to "issue"? -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 09:46, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
{{cite magazine |url=https://archive.aramcoworld.com/pdf/2000/200506.pdf |title=Patterns of Moon, Patterns of Sun |first=Paul |last=Lunde |magazine=Saudi Aramco World |date=November–December 2005 |volume=56 |issue=6 |access-date=2021-08-12}}
issue=
should not insert No. ) must get spiked. --
John Maynard Friedman (
talk) 17:51, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
|issue=
and |number=
are aliases.|number=
is an alias for |issue=
. So they must be expected to behave identically. --
Redrose64 🌹 (
talk) 22:56, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
|issue=6
is not wrong at present, but |number=6
would be better in this case to improve forward compatibility. At present, both parameters are treated as aliases and produce identical output. But different periodicals use different nomenclatures. It is therefore a good idea to use |issue=
when the publication uses "Issues" as well, and |number=
when they use "Numbers", so that the template can adapt and generate the appropriate prefix "Iss." or "No.". If the publication itself does not prescribe a certain nomenclature, it is best to use issues for volume-relative numbering schemes (as well as non-numeric issue names/titles) and number for absolute numbering schemes (because that's what most periodicals use - but not all).|date=
parameter, but there are cases where issues have actual names or titles. This still looks reasonably good in conjunction with |issue=
("Special issue") but not with |number=
.|issue=
and |date=
, and also |quote=
where you can quote the date period verbatim. One or more of those 3 should be sufficient for a small minority of cases.
184.75.82.14 (
talk) 21:35, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
|issue=
), but sometimes publications carry an |issue=
in addition to a named date (and often no "normal" date at all). In these latter cases, these named dates need to be actually handled as a date in |date=
, also for proper metadata generation. If not, it will become more difficult to locate these sources and obtain a copy of these publications in libraries, as they are often not found when stored under a different search key. There are even a number of dedicated
COinS keys reserved for seasons (rft.ssn
), quarters (rft.quarter
) and named dates (rft.chron
), clearly indicating that such dates are actually used in the publishing industry and that they need to be supported in the library business.@ Nigel Ish. These days, it is probable that the number of readers going through stacks of periodicals or buying back issues in order to verify a wikitext claim is smaller than the number of times an issue dated or labeled "Christmas (year)" appears in Wikipedia citations. It is much more likely they will ask someone or some thing for help. It was explained above what is likely to happen then. As was also pointed out before, there are ways to present rare dating info right now, even with rigid elements like templates. Sure, these ways may be stretching the use of the templates, but that is because the rare dating stretches the notion of "date". The entire point is that when there are other, more substantial issues regarding CS1, this and other minor (because rare) items can wait further judgement in time. In the meantime, one of the available fixes can be used. 64.18.10.203 ( talk) 04:41, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
I have a list of 2.4 million journal and magazines like:
journal-of-black-psychology_2014-08_40_4 journal-of-primary-prevention_1982_spring_2_3 journal-of-occupational-and-environmental-medicine_1959-07_1_7
Note the "spring". The four seasons are most common. There are many "supplement, "index", "special issue". Also "first quarter". Many date ranges such as "jan-apr" (or "january-april"). And "winter-spring". Combos like "fourth quarter supplement" and "january-october cumulative". About 80 "christmas". About 20 "midsummer". Nothing with "semester" or "quadrimester". -- Green C 05:17, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
Many pages for academics have a "Works" or "Books" section that lists out their authored books, etc. (
example). For these, I often like to use the CS1 citation templates, just without the surrounding ref tags and without the author parameters, as the author can be presumed to be the subject of the page. However, this gets tricky when there are multiple authors, as listing out only the other authors would be confusing and give the impression that the subject wasn't actually involved. For these instances, I could just write out With {{citation|last=Smith|first=John|title=...
, but I feel like that wouldn't be good for the metadata. Is there a way to do this better within the citation template itself? If not, could we create it? {{u|
Sdkb}}
talk 05:17, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
|author-mask=
and its cousins |author-maskn=
, I believe. —
JohnFromPinckney (
talk /
edits) 06:16, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
|author/editor/translator/...-maskn=
for the names) to suppress certain values from the local output of the citation. (A similar case exists for titles, and we already have some means to mute titles but we are still lacking a proper method to specify a title for metadata but mask it in the local output - I hope we can address this when we add support for descriptive titles, which should show up locally without
text decoration, but should not normally be made part of the metadata, or at least not without being specially marked).Good day,
Currently working on a major edit of MCW Metrobus, some of which involves adding book sources to previously unsourced content. But when using Template:Cite book, what general guidance is there for providing multiple sources from the same book? As in, one source uses the book on one set of pages, while another source uses the book on a different set of pages? Is there, perhaps, a way these sources can be 'combined' so there is no repetition, or is repetition the only way?
Cheers, Hullian111 ( talk) 17:58, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
|pages=
parameter, and optionally merge the corresponding quotes from the source into the |quote=
parameter (which has a separate |quote-pages=
parameter, if the quotes are from a subset of those pages given in the |pages=
parameter only). Once you have defined this citation through something like <ref name="YourRefName">{{cite book |YourCitationParameters=...}}</ref>
, you can then invoke this citation by <ref name="YourRefName"/>
whereever it is needed to support an article statement.<ref name="YourRefName"/>{{rp|YourPageNo}}
. Some people like to combine this into a wrapper template {{
r|YourRefName|p=YourPageNo}}
- this gives exactly the same output but is shorter and easier to read.|page=
or |pages=
parameter that are not page numbers. You can instead use |contribution=
, |chapter=
, or |at=
(but |at=
and |pages=
cannot both be used in the same citation). For {{
sfn}} there is also |loc=
. —
David Eppstein (
talk) 22:17, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
|pages=
supports comma-separated lists of pages, page ranges and linked pages in any combination, but please don't put other information into the parameter. |page=
is for singular pages, and |at=
is for other location information (sheets, columns, paragraphs, etc.) for which the prefix p. or pp. would be misleading. These prefixes also do not belong into the parameter, they are generated by the template itself.|pages=131, 185
parameter, merging the pages info from all short references like {{
rp}}. This gives complete metadata, including page info, in the full citation. It may look a bit odd in the source code of this thread, because the definition of the full citation is located where we are actually only citing page 131, but it creates the correct output anyway, and the definition
[4]: 201 could be added
[4]: 205 into
[4]: 231 the References section further down. I'm creating one here to illustrate this with a third citation:References
References
Bibliography
This is a sidetrack off of Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 77 § summary messaging in the preview warning header. Over the past few days I have been reworking how error messaging is handled in the various modules (primarily Module:Citation/CS1 and Module:Citation/CS1/Identifiers which emit the most errors). In the previous conversation, I suggested that it would be a good thing to move all error messages to the end of the citation. As it is right now, some error messages are made part of the template's rendering which, to me, looks bad.
The live module has a table called z.message_tail
which holds all of the error messages that are rendered following the citation. To load that table, it is necessary for the code to call
set_message()
in
Module:Citation/CS1/Utilities. That function returns the error message as a plain message or as a message wrapped in <span>...</span>
tags appropriately classed for hidden or visible error messages. The function that called set_message()
then has to use the returned message as an appendage on a parameter's data or as a replacement for it; or, the function must insert the returned message into the z.message_tail
table. Moving all error messages to the end of the citation means that set_message()
can insert the message in z.message_tail
as part of its normal operation and so the code is simpler and more consistent.
I have done that. The change primarily impacts
Module:Citation/CS1/sandbox and
Module:Citation/CS1/Identifiers/sandbox but also impacts
Module:Citation/CS1/Utilities/sandbox. I have renamed z.message_tail
to z.error_msgs_t
so that the name reflects its content.
As part of this I have spent a bit of time refining the assembly of the various parts of the finished citation (the citation itself, the anchor ID and the css classes in the <cite>
tag, the metadata, the error messages, the maintenance messages, and the categories (roughly the 100ish lines of code beginning at about line 3844 of Module:Citation/CS1/sandbox). This includes the error and maintenance summaries and the error message prefixes discussed in the previous conversation, sorting of error and maintenance messages. Empty citations will no longer produce metadata because why bother:
{{cite book}}
{{
cite book}}
: Empty citation (
help)
'"`UNIQ--templatestyles-000000B2-QINU`"'<cite class="citation book cs1"></cite> <span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment"><code class="cs1-code">{{[[Template:cite book|cite book]]}}</code>: </span><span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment">Empty citation ([[Help:CS1 errors#empty_citation|help]])</span>
{{cite book/new}}
{{
cite book}}
: Empty citation (
help)
'"`UNIQ--templatestyles-000000B5-QINU`"'<cite class="citation book cs1"></cite> <span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment"><code class="cs1-code">{{[[Template:cite book|cite book]]}}</code>: </span><span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment">Empty citation ([[Help:CS1 errors#empty_citation|help]])</span>
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 22:02, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
{{cite journal |last=Smith |first=John |date=9999 |title=Title of Things |journal=Journal of Stuff |volume=Vol. 34 |issue=1 |pages=23–45 |doi=10.4321/3210 |pmid=012345}}
|volume=
has extra text (
help); Check date values in: |date=
(
help)<span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment">*</span><span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment">*</span>
<span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment">**</span>
{{cite journal/new |title=Title}}
{{
cite journal}}
: Cite journal requires |journal=
(
help)
'"`UNIQ--templatestyles-000000BC-QINU`"'<cite class="citation journal cs1">"Title".</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.atitle=Title&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1%2FArchive+78" class="Z3988"></span> <span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment"><code class="cs1-code">{{[[Template:cite journal|cite journal]]}}</code>: </span><span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment">Cite journal requires <code class="cs1-code">|journal=</code> ([[Help:CS1 errors#missing_periodical|help]])</span>
|ref=harv
the default, we decided to ignore this because the benefit far outweights the problem. Nobody complained about it.However, there is a related, more general issue. This is unrelated to preview messages and the restructuring of error messages, but since we are talking about the structure of the HTML for a citation, I'm bringing this up anyway.
The general structure of a citation (in the sandbox, that is, including the preview message) is as follows:
<span id="cite-book-error"></span><cite id="CITEREF*" class="citation book cs1">Citation with appended messages</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=*" class="Z3988"></span>
Some browers and tools allow to highlight the scope of elements and navigate from element to element or otherwise take advantage of knowing the scope of data elements (screenreaders and browsing assistance tools, web development tools, web harvesters). Right now, they see a citation as an empty preview error span, the actual citation with optional messages appended, followed by the COinS info.
This is somewhat suboptimal. The preview error span should span over the whole citation including messages and COinS data.
In addition to this, the COinS span should ideally span over the citation and messages as well in order to declare the context of the COinS data. This would result in the following nested structure:
<span id="cite-book-error"><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=*" class="Z3988"><cite id="CITEREF*" class="citation book cs1">Citation with appended messages</cite></span></span>
The only adverse effect of this rearrangement I can see right now is that the browser will now display the COinS data as tooltip, which might be confusing. So, if the contents of the COinS span really must be empty, it might be possible to do it the other way around and embed it into the cite element. The preview error span could still wrap around both:
<span id="cite-book-error"><cite id="CITEREF*" class="citation book cs1">Citation with appended messages<span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=*" class="Z3988"></span></cite></span>
In both of these two cases, the proper extraction of COinS data by existing tools would have to be tested, because in the examples I could find on the web they always suggest that this is an empty element (or only containing a space) immediately following the citation. At least wrapping the preview span around both of them will work regardlessly:
<span id="cite-book-error"><cite id="CITEREF*" class="citation book cs1">Citation with appended messages</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=*" class="Z3988"></span></span>
-- Matthiaspaul ( talk) 12:07, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
{{cite book/new |title=Title |access-date=2021-08-01}}
{{
cite book}}
: |access-date=
requires |url=
(
help)
<templatestyles src="Module:Citation/CS1/sandbox/styles.css"></templatestyles><span id="cite-book-error"></span><cite class="citation book cs1">''Title''.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3ABlue" class="Z3988"></span> <span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment"><code class="cs1-code">{{[[Template:cite book|cite book]]}}</code>: </span><span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment"><code class="cs1-code">|access-date=</code> requires <code class="cs1-code">|url=</code> ([[Help:CS1 errors#accessdate_missing_url|help]])</span>[[Category:CS1 errors: access-date without URL]]
<templatestyles></templatestyles>
<span id=<cite book error anchor>></span>
<cite>The Citation</cite>
<span <COinS metadata>></span>
<messaging>
<categories>
{{
anchor}}
implements anchors. It is easy enough to wrap the entire rendering from <cite>
to the end of the last category in the error-anchor and maint-anchor spans. If we did that, we could add an undefined class so that editors can style the anchored citations; don't know how beneficial that would be ...<cite>
to the end of the last category:
{{cite book/new |title=Title |access-date=2021-08-01 |authors=Authors}}
{{
cite book}}
: |access-date=
requires |url=
(
help); Unknown parameter |authors=
ignored (
help)
'"`UNIQ--templatestyles-000000C8-QINU`"'<cite class="citation book cs1">''Title''.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1%2FArchive+78" class="Z3988"></span> <span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment"><code class="cs1-code">{{[[Template:cite book|cite book]]}}</code>: </span><span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment"><code class="cs1-code">|access-date=</code> requires <code class="cs1-code">|url=</code> ([[Help:CS1 errors#accessdate_missing_url|help]])</span>; <span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment">Unknown parameter <code class="cs1-code">|authors=</code> ignored ([[Help:CS1 errors#parameter_ignored|help]])</span>
<cite>
, therefore from the viewpoint of data extraction, it should not matter, if one gets embedded into the other.<cite>
inside COinS span:
<cite>
:
For audiobooks, mainly. Whenever the various situations are sorted out and proper development restarts. This alias may be useful. 66.108.237.246 ( talk) 13:39, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
{{
cite media}}
with |others=Narrated by Simon Vance
. The free-form |others=
allows for multiple narrators; or, "Full-cast" such as BBC radio adaptations of a book that are too many to list, or some staring roles. --
Green
C 14:58, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
|others=
works fine for these roles. Almost none of them help with
WP:V, which is the main purpose of these templates. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 16:09, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
Adding an observation made in this discussion about the illustrator role. Audiobook titles can be found by using the "narrator" info, even when the author is not used. The major trade databases (wholesale & retail) index the "narrator" field, and the narrator is prominently displayed in browse lists along with the author. 65.88.88.76 ( talk) 21:00, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
{{hyphen}}
converted to dash
Help:Citation Style 1#pagehyphen says For a hyphenated page, use
However, I don't believe this is true, as |page=12{{hyphen}}34
. This will not only properly display a hyphen..."{{cite book|title=Title|pages=1{{hyphen}}2}}"
renders as "Title. pp. 1–2." with a dash. --
Ahecht (
TALK
PAGE) 02:27, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
|page=
and |pages=
are not the same thing. Compare your example:
{{cite book|title=Title|pages=1{{hyphen}}2}}
{{cite book|title=Title|page=1{{hyphen}}2}}
Markup can be applied to the entry as a whole or to individual list entries, but that doesn't seem to work for numbers with commas:
{{cite book|title=Title|pages=1, ((1,234))}}
{{cite book |title=Title |pages=1{{hyphen}}2{{endash}}3{{hyphen}}4}}
{{cite book|title=Title|pages=((1{{hyphen}}2)), ((3{{hyphen}}4))}}
where those are intended to by hyphenated page numbers. Any objection to me adding that to the help page? --
Ahecht (
TALK{{cite book|title=Title|pages=((1{{hyphen}}2, 3{{hyphen}}4))}}
{{cite book|title=Title|pages=((1{{hyphen}}2,3{{hyphen}}4))}}
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 75 | Archive 76 | Archive 77 | Archive 78 | Archive 79 | Archive 80 | → | Archive 85 |
In normal display mode (what readers see), broken archive urls are ignored except that the module emits an error message. When editors view the same article in preview mode, and when the archive url is an archive.org url, the module uses a modified form of the archive url. The purpose of that is to enable editors to see archive.org's calendar view so that they might choose the url of an appropriate snapshot to replace the malformed archive url in the template. When |archive-url=
holds a malformed archive url, the live module truncates the timestamp from 14 to 6 digits and appends a splat (*
). That used to work. So, I have tweaked the code so that the new preview-mode archive url uses the first six (YYYYMM) or four (YYYY) digits of the timestamp, zero-fills to 14 digits, and then appends the splat. To see this in action, you must edit this section (or page) and preview.
Wikitext | {{cite web
|
---|---|
Live |
"Ask Hal: Frequently Asked Questions to the Blue Sky Rangers". Intellivision Productions. Retrieved November 3, 2008. {{
cite web}} : |archive-url= is malformed: timestamp (
help)
|
Sandbox |
"Ask Hal: Frequently Asked Questions to the Blue Sky Rangers". Intellivision Productions. Retrieved November 3, 2008. {{
cite web}} : |archive-url= is malformed: timestamp (
help)
|
In the above examples, the live version links to a "We're sorry — something's gone wrong" page while the sandbox links to the calendar view.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 19:38, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
|archive-url=
https://web.archive.org/web/20170614
or shorter, the new implementation throws a Lua error in "Module:Citation/CS1/sandbox at line 2379: attempt to index local 'timestamp' (a nil value)."|archive-url=
http://web.archive.org/web/
as an entry shortcut forcing it to take the URL from the |url=
parameter and optionally the timestamp from the |archive-date=
parameter to automatically form archive URLs like
https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.intellivisionlives.com/bluesky/people/askhal/askhal.html
or
https://web.archive.org/web/20170614*/http://www.intellivisionlives.com/bluesky/people/askhal/askhal.html
for the error message, so that editors could utilize our preview to select or create a snapshot from/at archive.org with a minimum amount of keystrokes.Wikitext | {{cite web
|
---|---|
Live |
"Ask Hal: Frequently Asked Questions to the Blue Sky Rangers". Intellivision Productions. Retrieved November 3, 2008. {{
cite web}} : |archive-url= is malformed: timestamp (
help)
|
Sandbox |
"Ask Hal: Frequently Asked Questions to the Blue Sky Rangers". Intellivision Productions. Retrieved November 3, 2008. {{
cite web}} : |archive-url= is malformed: timestamp (
help)
|
Why does {{ Cite magazine}} emit volume in upper case: {{cite magazine|title=Some title|magazine=Some Magazine|volume=17}} -> "Some title". Some Magazine. Vol. 17. ? -- Michael Bednarek ( talk) 09:23, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
If you specify just one author and then invoke display-authors=1, you get an error. You need to specify an author2 to make it go away (even though author2 isn't displayed!). Urhixidur ( talk) 15:19, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
|display-authors=2
:
|display-authors=2
becomes meaningless. When there are more than two authors and you only want to display one of their names, then |display-authors=1
will suppress display of the second author name and add et al. to the rendering:
|display-authors=etal
to indicate that the work has more authors whose names are not shown:
<span class=warning style="font-size:100%">Harv warning: There is no link pointing to this citation. The anchor is named CITEREFFirst_Author.</span>
class=warning
going away? If it is, I should change the warning markup to:
<span style="color:#ac6600">Harv warning: There is no link pointing to this citation. The anchor is named CITEREFFirst_Author.</span>
Peeking at Category:CS1 errors: markup, I see it doesn't include fields like "title". I'm in the process of cleaning up lots of HTML entities (which shouldn't be in these fields either), and I've seen lots of instances of double single quotes (''...'') in the title field. On Wikipedia, this will make italics, but apparently italics are not allowed in COinS fields? Is this something that should be systematically fixed? -- Beland ( talk) 07:48, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
|title=
may be the source (as in {{
cite book}}), or a location within the source (as in {{
cite journal}}). This is pertinent, because the title value is auto-formatted differently. In the case of title=source it would be in italics. Including italics markup, would cause the affected text to display in straight type. Because of the fundamental error of mis-defined and mis-applied parameters, more convoluted acrobatics have to be employed. Good luck!
65.88.88.57 (
talk) 11:48, 9 August 2021 (UTC)|title=
. We might create a maintenance category to track bold markup in |title=
, |chapter=
and aliases. Such categorization must be mindful of '''s
(possessive form of italicized text).|title=
.
65.88.88.57 (
talk) 11:48, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
{{
cite web}}
, {{
cite journal}}
, etc), cs1|2 adds kerning when the title text has leading or trailing quote marks
{{cite periodical |title='leading' quote and trailing "quote" |periodical=Periodical}}
|title=
if that is how the source is formatted, only as a help for the reader. There may be a minority of readers for whom anything but exact representation may cause confusion. However this additional emphasis should not be a requirement, just as (generally) adherence to case is not a requirement. There is already the semantic emphasis built in to the presentation of the work argument, and the occasional emphasis on |volume=
(depending on day of the week, or something). This should be enough to attract readers' attention to the most important information in the citation. But there may be another minority of readers for whom any added emphasis may confuse.
65.88.88.57 (
talk) 12:16, 9 August 2021 (UTC){{cite periodical |title=''Possessive italics'''s in title |periodical=Periodical}} and some trailing text
{{cite web}}
template: please make the title
parameter optionalFor web sources, specifying titles often is not necessary but makes code longer and wastes editor’s time. There is no reason to make it required. Let editors decide whether the title is needed. VSL0 ( talk) 03:58, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
{{cite web}}
template is often used just for referencing (providing the source of information), not necessary for a citation.
VSL0 (
talk) 04:45, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
@
GoingBatty: @
GreenC: @
Headbomb: The purpose of using {{cite web}}
may be just providing the link to the source with specifying its date
or access-date
in a standard way. In case of accessible web sources there may be no need for knowing their titles in advance (especially if they don’t represent books, articles, publications), and this is enough for making the title
parameter optional. Could anyone modify the template?
VSL0 (
talk) 07:44, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
|title="Webpage Title"
is concerned, it is rather helpful to the lay reader, the same way an in-source location such as "chapter" or "page" would be in print. The related comments below are also pertinent.
65.88.88.46 (
talk) 15:51, 11 August 2021 (UTC)@ Amakuru: @ Nthep: I rather agree, and the topic may be considered closed. VSL0 ( talk) 11:52, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
IMO now theoretical since the discussion is closed anyway, the purpose of a citation on Wikipedia is to facilitate finding and verifying a source. The citation is a means to an end. If a title exists, it would be so significant to finding the source it would be required. If no title exists, I don't know. Would need to see examples. Often in those cases the title is descriptive eg. "Facebook post by A_User on a Topic". -- Green C 16:46, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
Hello, there appears to be some spacing problem in the |issue=
field of {{
cite news}} it appears to add a space after the comma for some reason.
{{cite news |title=The new Exchange railway station at Bradford |work=The Leeds Mercury |issue=14,479 |date=3 September 1884 |location=Column F |page=3}}
"The new Exchange railway station at Bradford". The Leeds Mercury. No. 14, 479. Column F. 3 September 1884. p. 3.
Keith D ( talk) 19:41, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
{{cite news |title=The new Exchange railway station at Bradford |work=The Leeds Mercury |issue=((14,479)) |date=3 September 1884 |location=Column F |page=3}}
|volume=
, |number=
, |issue=
,|pages=
, |pp=
, |quote-pages=
use the same code, and it would be highly unintuitive, if they would use different rules and syntaxes. --
Matthiaspaul (
talk) 08:58, 18 July 2021 (UTC)
|issue=
, |number=
or |volume=
might need to contain a list. In my experience, they're always single values, and should be treated as such. |pages=
is a different matter, and we do provide it as a parameter distinct from |page=
to recognise the fact that a list may often be required. --
Redrose64 🌹 (
talk) 09:11, 18 July 2021 (UTC)
|issue=14,479,800
would be interpreted as three items "14, 479, 800" and |issue=((14,479)),800
as two items "14,479, 800", but |issue=14,479;800
would be interpreted as "14,479, 800" instead of "14, 479, 800". The scheme would only work for arguments containing lists, that is, a single item like "14,479" would still require the accept-as-is syntax |issue=((14,479))
to keep it from being interpreted as two list items "14, 479". So, effectively, this would still require the usage of a special syntax, but at least some cases might be more intuitive to write than before. Also, it is important to understand that if a scheme like this would be implemented it would work for all parameters taking argument lists for reasons of consistency.So are we anywhere near a consensus to either:
Nthep ( talk) 19:38, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
It seems to me that there |url-status=
needs another option, for a webpage which is live and has not been usurped, but where the current version no longer contains the cited info.
I have been archiving the refs on the article
Paul Gogarty (an Irish politician), and the page
http://www.paulgogarty.com/about/ was cited in 2009 as a ref for the assertion that he joined the Green Party in 1989 as a student
. That current live age doesn't say that, because Gogarty left the Green party 10 years ago, and has been an independent since 2011. So his biog page now focuses more on his status as an independent.
However, the relevant facts are in an archived version of the page, from 2009: https://web.archive.org/web/20151229222337/http://www.paulgogarty.com/about/
I was unsure what value to give for |url-status=
. None of the options was a good fit:
|url-status=live
makes the current version the primary link, which is not helpful|url-status=usurped
would be untrue, because the domain has not been usurped|url-status=unfit
initially seemed like the best option, but it does not link the original URL, which seems unhelpful|url-status=dead
isn't strictly true, because the original page is still live ... but this option does link the original URLSo in this edit
[1] I used |url-status=dead
as the least-worst option.
However, it would be better to have some option which more accurately describes the situation. Maybe |url-status=rewritten
or |url-status=revised
?
It seems to me that this situation is not uncommon, so there should be an option which supports it. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 06:03, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
|url-status=revised
(or |url-status=updated
or |url-status=changed
) as short for changed and no longer containing the cited information and linking to an archived version would be more informative than shoe-horning |url-status=dead
. —
Jts1882 |
talk 07:53, 17 June 2021 (UTC)|url=
and |archive-url=
links. Perhaps |url-status=outdated
would transport that message? --
Matthiaspaul (
talk) 12:08, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
|url-status=outdated
, |url-status=substituted
, |url-status=replaced
, and |url-status=archived
came to my mind so far. Perhaps archived
would be the most universal one as it does not make a statement in regard to the potentially changed contents of the live site and its validity, just that an archived snapshot exists (and therefore can be linked to if the editor wants to). Codewise, this would be treated as an alias to dead
for now.Gogarty joined the Green Party in 1989 as a student.<ref>{{cite web |title=Profile of Paul Gogarty TD |work=Paul Gogarty's website |access-date=2009-06-19 |url=http://www.paulgogarty.com/index.php/about/ |url-status=archived |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20151229222337/http://www.paulgogarty.com/about/ |archive-date=2015-12-29}}</ref>
{{
cite web}}
: Invalid |url-status=archived
(
help)|url-status=archived
is all that meaningful. Looking at the wikitext of your example template, a generic editor might think, "of course its archived, it has |archive-url=
..." If this new keyword (presuming that we can find one), is to convey the meaning that the original url no longer supports our article's text, then that keyword should be sufficiently descriptive to convey that meaning. |url-status=archived
doesn't do it for me.|url-status=blacklisted
changes because they won't work; your change will be swept away by that revert.|url-status=diverging/diverged
, |url-status=deviating/deviated
, |url-status=differing/differed/different
or |url-status=drifted
?|url-status=archive-verified
. It's not going to be intuitive regardless, and we're probably not going to be able to find a single word to do what you want.
Izno (
talk) 18:15, 7 July 2021 (UTC)|url-status=invalid
would be too close to |url-status=unfit
and imply either gross or corrupt contents or an error, but |url-status=invalidated
would convey the message that there once actually was valid contents (as verifiable by the archived snapshot - somewhat in line with Izno's archive-verified
above), that there was a change in contents, and that the current one isn't good any more, but still not dead, or unfit, or usurped... Perhaps
BrownHairedGirl,
Jts1882, or
Amakuru have ideas for even better keywords?|url-status=revised/updated/changed
) were the best one word options I could think of. Izno's |url-status=archive-verified
conveys the right message that the content was verifiable and can still be checked in the archive. —
Jts1882 |
talk 09:01, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
live
, dead
, unfit
and usurped
also do not convey all implied meanings associated with them, but they come close enough to be memorizable.archive-verified
is too long IMO, and, while true, it is also a bit too much on the policy side - I mean, we do not necessarily need to explicitly state in the keyword that the contents is verified (verifiable from the archive), because that's what
WP:RS need to be in the first place. What's more important to convey is that the live contents has changed and deviates from the former contents which supported the statement.|url-status=revised/updated/changed
would be nice short keywords to reflect the change in general, but they miss a notion of the original information not being supported any more. |url-status=substituted/replaced/reworked
do convey that message better, but are perhaps a bit too close to |url-status=usurped
already, after all, substitution or replacement could also indicate a site holding completely new information rather than a page that is still rooted in the original one, but has changed enough (just) to no longer support the statement. IMO, |url-status=diverged
or |url-status=deviated
transports that message quite well. |url-status=invalidated
could do it as well (and even has a notion of former validation/verifiability), but is closer to |url-status=unfit
already. None of them implies the existence of an archived snapshot, but the existing keywords don't do that as well, so this is not necessarily a bad thing. If we would want to put the emphasis on the availabilty of an archive rather than the reasons for why it might be necessary to refer to it, |url-status=archived
could be a suitable purely descriptive option as well. Finally, here is another one which (only indirectly) implies change and a need to recover the original information, but also has aspects of information being archived and verified: |url-status=retrievable
.|url-status=ex-valid
or |url-status=ex-support
where the ex-
prefix denotes 'former' as in 'ex-president'. Assuming that we settle on some appropriate keyword, what does the module do with that keyword? Render same as |url-status=dead
? Render same as |url-status=unfit
(no original link)? Something else?|url-status=historical
?|url-status=dead
.
Nurg (
talk) 04:55, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
|url-status=dead
.|url-status=descended/inherited/ancestral/supplanted/superseded
?|url-status=dead
called |url-status=historical
and an alias for |url-status=live
called |url-status=current
, with a view to eventually deprecating "live" and "dead"? Or something like that?
Nurg (
talk) 05:15, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
archived
keyword in the sandbox for illustration purposes, which, however, was reverted by Trappist and Izno).historical
, I first thought this would be a good match, but later it occured to me that |url-status=historical
could also be interpreted to mean just the opposite of what we want to express, as if the current page at the URL would be the historical one.current
and from what you wrote about deprecating dead
, I take it that you want to replace the currently assigned keyword(s) by (presumably) better one(s). This would be different from the original proposal where we were/are seeking for a keyword to define a separate new state for |url-status=
which just happens to render the same (at least at present) as what we do for |url-status=dead
. However, a dead URL is an URL for which your browser would not get any response at all any more when queried, whereas when querying an outdated/deviated/superseded page you would still get contents, even sensible contents, which can be seen as a continuation of the original contents, but just changed in ways so that its contents no longer supports the article any more.|url-status=deviated
to be the most suitable one. It is reasonably short, a single keyword, and it implies something that is still live and not usurped, but changed enough from something that was once found good enough to support the article, but not changed drastically enough to be unfit for presentation. If there are no objections or better suggestions, I will implement that.{{cite web |title=Profile of Paul Gogarty TD |work=Paul Gogarty's website |access-date=2009-06-19 |url=http://www.paulgogarty.com/index.php/about/ |url-status=deviated |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20151229222337/http://www.paulgogarty.com/about/ |archive-date=2015-12-29}}
|url-status=
situation.|archive-url=
, extract the original link from it for |url=
and set |url-status=
so that the two links are swapped. I would typically use the keyword "dead" for it, but as others have stated already, this isn't exactly intuitive and might even be misleading at times. Adding the archived version to |url=
will, in most cases, cause some bot to fix up the citation later on.|url-status=
has a utility value for editors, that's exactly why it should have a well-defined set of non-misleading keywords to cover all practical cases, even if some of them would be handled the same by the software internally. --
Matthiaspaul (
talk) 13:06, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
Citations are not historical information, nor are they future statements.
in terms of how the cite formats itself this will probably end up similar to "dead". My goal is to assist editors by providing a more explicit label to achieve that. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 09:53, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
blacklisted
(or the politically correct term du jour) might be one to add. When |url=
has a blacklisted url, the blacklist prevents saving of the article. To get round that, editors add an |archive-url=
and either comment out, remove, or otherwise break the value in |url=
so that the page will save. This gives a link to a snapshot of the source but also creates |archive-url=
requires |url=
errors. |url-status=blacklisted
would allow |url=
to be blank (commented) or missing;
Module:Citation/CS1 would not emit error messages but would emit a maintenance category.|url-status=blacklisted
.Wikitext | {{cite web
|
---|---|
Live | "Title". Boomerocity.com. {{
cite web}} : |access-date= requires |url= (
help); |archive-url= requires |url= (
help); Invalid |url-status=blacklisted (
help); Missing or empty |url= (
help)
|
Sandbox | "Title". Boomerocity.com. {{
cite web}} : |access-date= requires |url= (
help); |archive-url= requires |url= (
help); Invalid |url-status=blacklisted (
help); Missing or empty |url= (
help)
|
{{
cite book}}
for |chapter-url=
. In this example, |chapter-url=<!-- blacklisted https://www(dot)boomerocity(dot)com/moonbeam-parade(dot)html blacklisted -->
(where (dot) is a dot):Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | "Chapter". Title. {{
cite book}} : |access-date= requires |url= (
help); |archive-url= requires |url= (
help); Invalid |url-status=blacklisted (
help)
|
Sandbox | "Chapter". Title. {{
cite book}} : |access-date= requires |url= (
help); |archive-url= requires |url= (
help); Invalid |url-status=blacklisted (
help)
|
|chapter-url=
it cannot know to apply |archive-url=
to |chapter=
.Wikitext | {{cite web
|
---|---|
Live |
"Title". BlacklistedWebsite.com. Archived from
the original on 2021-07-06. Retrieved 2021-07-06. {{
cite web}} : Invalid |url-status=blacklisted (
help)
|
Sandbox |
"Title". BlacklistedWebsite.com. Archived from
the original on 2021-07-06. Retrieved 2021-07-06. {{
cite web}} : Invalid |url-status=blacklisted (
help)
|
http://
or https://
until the line item found in
MediaWiki:Spam-blacklist; see
mw:Extension:SpamBlacklist#Performance. So for the boomerocity.com archive url
here, https://web.archive.org/web/20200122204730/https://boomerocity(dot)com
will match /https?:\/\/[a-z0-9\-.]*\bboomerocity\.com\b/Si
.|archive-url-status=
.{{Cite web |title=Title |website=BlacklistedWebsite.com |url=http://blacklisted_url.com|archive-url=http://blacklisted_url.com-some_archive.org |archive-date=2021-07-06 |access-date=2021-07-06 |url-status=blacklisted|archive-url-status=blacklisted}}
{{Cite web |title=Title |website=BlacklistedWebsite.com |url=<!--http://blacklisted_url.com-->|archive-url=<!--http://blacklisted_url.com-some_archive.org--> |archive-date=2021-07-06 |access-date=2021-07-06 |url-status=blacklisted|archive-url-status=blacklisted}}
|url=original-url.com
is auto-formatted when |url-status=dead
, for example, to |url=archived-url.com
(and the static text too).
65.88.88.57 (
talk) 20:19, 6 July 2021 (UTC)Hi, this is a followup to a recent but meanwhile archived discussion at Help talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_75#Issue_with_{{{issue}}}, which was about converting double-hyphens and triple-hyphens in page ranges to en dashes and em dashes.
I originally implemented that on 2020-11-17 based on some suggestion that double-hyphens could occur in BibTeX entries and thereby could end up here as well occasionally. Unfortunately, I introduced a bug into the code trashing stripmarkers ("never do any last-minute changes after having already tested the code..." ;-) and because I could not locate the original discussion any more, it was removed rather than fixed. Well, I still haven't found the original discussion, so it probably wasn't here, but I just ran into a site (by renowned Nelson H. F. Beebe) excessively using double-hyphens in (hundreds of) BibTeX citations, so I thought I would drop a link here just for reference:
http://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/bstj1930.html
Since we are doing all kinds of plausibility checks and also some on-the-fly conversions (including with pages and page ranges), I still think we should cover this case. After all, a double-hyphen in a page range can never be part of the page designation itself and the only reasonable interpretation is as an endash in a page range. The alternative to just silently converting them to improve our display and make our metadata output more consistent would be to throw a maintenance message, but this would require more code. -- Matthiaspaul ( talk) 12:46, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
I often need to cite material from a tree-structured document with no page numbers. Typically there is a sidebar for navigation. If section foo.bar.baz has a stable URL then I can use |section-url=
, but often there is none. Ideally I would like to mark it up with something like
{{cite document | title = Manual with nested sections and no page numbers | section-1 = foo | section-2 = bar | section-3 = baz }}
However, nothing like |section-n=
is implemented. |section=foo: bar: baz
and |section=foo - bar - baz
look clunky. What is the best way to mark up such citations? --
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (
talk) 16:42, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
|section1=
, |section2=
, |section3=
your next request will be for |section-url1=
, |section-url2=
, |section-url3=
, etc. And, how would that render? cs1|2 citations are complex enough, I don't think that we should be making them more complex by attempting to cite multiple sources with a single template. As an aside, this is why I want to do away with |lay-url=
and its companions.{{cite manual |title=Manual with nested sections and no page numbers |at=§foo, §bar, §[//example.com baz]}}
{{
cite document}}
to cite a manual. {{cite document}}
is a redirect to {{
cite journal}}
. Why? Don't know; it really ought not to redirect there... {{
cite manual}}
as I used here is a redirect to {{
cite book}}
.This looks like you are trying to cite multiple sources with a cs1|2 template that is designed to cite one source at a time., since the first three sentences clearly are describing a single source that is at a third level branch of the navigation sidebar. That is, on the navigation bar of the web page, you have something like
|section<n>=
parameters, you still have some sort of clunkyrendering if you want all of those hierarchical names in the rendered citation:
|section=Content entry for subsubsection baz of subsection bar of foo
sufficient?|level-n-section=
then I could live with whatever rendering they chose. I'd probably prefer "level-1 > level-2 > level-3", but that's a nit.|section=Content entry for subsubsection baz of subsection bar of foo
is sufficient. --
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (
talk) 19:10, 13 August 2021 (UTC)Is there a way to put an Identificativo SBN (Italian identifier) in Cite book and similar templates?-- Carnby ( talk) 08:10, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
others=SBN 123456
. Otherwise you have to request an addition to the template: I have no idea how you would do that. --
John Maynard Friedman (
talk) 09:53, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
|others=
is for 'other' contributors; not for miscellaneous identifiers.|id=Identificativo SBN: <identifier number>
|id={{
ICCU|number}}
. (It is not named {{
SBN}} because of the name conflict with the
ISBN predecessor.)This citation:
{{
citation}}
: External link in |title=
(
help)is throwing a CS1 error "External link in |title= (help)". But obviously it wouldn't work to use |title-link=
(the only suggestion at the help link) because the three components of this multi-component work need to be linked separately. Can anyone suggest a way to make this citation work without errors and without splitting it into three separate citations? All I would really want is to disable the CS1 error message, because except for that message the citation template appears to format the citation adequately. —
David Eppstein (
talk) 17:14, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
{{citation
| last = Theil | first = H. | authorlink = Henri Theil
| journal = Nederl. Akad. Wetensch., Proc.
| pages = [https://www.dwc.knaw.nl/DL/publications/PU00018789.pdf 386–392], [https://www.dwc.knaw.nl/DL/publications/PU00018803.pdf 521–525], [https://www.dwc.knaw.nl/DL/publications/PU00018886.pdf 1397–1412]
| title = A rank-invariant method of linear and polynomial regression analysis
| volume = 53
| year = 1950}}
|pages=
and friends. It might be a good idea to consider to do the same for |volume=
, |number=
and |issue=
as well in order to better support various kinds of multi-partite publications (currently we don't, so adding the links to those parameters would, while still looking nice, mess up the metadata).|part=
parameter. Even
COinS has a special attribute for this (rft.part
, which we do not use at present), indicating that this is really something we are lacking support for in our current implementation. As far I see it, parts are typically displayed following the title, but before volumes.|page-linkn=
, this assumes the editor should match the link number to the page sequence in |pages=
.
66.108.237.246 (
talk) 13:33, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
|page-linkn=
parameters. |pages=
and friends already support page ranges, page lists as well as external links without messing up the metadata. (|volume=
, |number=
and |issue=
don't support external links at present, though.) Hence, there is no need for a separate |page-linkn=
parameter to provide links. Associating the nth-link with a particular list item would considerably complicate the code. --
Matthiaspaul (
talk) 20:41, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
The following throws an error, but it's resolving correctly
Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 09:27, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
Fixed in the sandbox.
Wikitext | {{cite journal
|
---|---|
Live | O'Mullane DM (2016). "Fluoride and Oral Health". Community Dental Health (33): 69–99. doi: 10.1922/CDH_3707O’Mullane31. |
Sandbox | O'Mullane DM (2016). "Fluoride and Oral Health". Community Dental Health (33): 69–99. doi: 10.1922/CDH_3707O’Mullane31. |
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 11:51, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
Some publications give a date as year and quarter, but, e.g., |date=3Q 1984
, yields an error message:
"foo" (Document). 3Q 1984.
{{ cite document}}
: Check date values in:|date=
( help); Cite document requires|publisher=
( help)
Is there a legitimate way to enter a quarter in |date=
? --
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (
talk) 14:49, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
{{cite journal |title=foo |journal=Journal |date=Third Quarter 1984}}
issue=
rather than (or even as well as) date=
?
{{cite journal |title= The unbearable brightness of fooing |journal=Journal of Forensic Fooology |date=1984 |issue=Third Quarter 1984 |first=John |last=Doe}}
Some journals use the month or season of publication, or just a number instead of the volume and issue numbers. Enter these details after the journal title in your reference list.
|date=
or |year=
) is rendered after the author list. It has been thus since forever. Editors at en.wiki commonly provide seasonal dates:
|date=ordinal quarter year
documented? Shouldn't it be included in the table of examples? --
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (
talk) 16:56, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
References
This should not throw an error. Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 03:52, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
We have this ref at United Airlines Flight 175
It's cited to a page on "NEFA Foundation", which isn't exactly reliable, but the report is the FBI's. The same report can be found on their website, but split into two portions (part-01-of-02, part-02-of-02) (perhaps for file size reasons). FBI site: [2] [3]. How can we use the URLs from fbi.gov directly, but only using one cite tag? ProcrastinatingReader ( talk) 13:54, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
{{cite web |url=https://vault.fbi.gov/9-11%20Commission%20Report/9-11-chronology-part-02-of-02/ |title=Hijackers' Timeline (Redacted) (part 2 of 2) |website=Federal Bureau of Investigation |date=November 14, 2003 |access-date= |ref={{sfnref|''Federal Bureau of Investigation''|2003}}}}
}}
brackets and Mediawiki's closing </ref>
tag:
[4]
[5]|pages=
parameter instead.|urln=
parameters would be that the extra links could be displayed immediately following the title instead of at the end of the main citation, like:
|type=
parameter (which does not become part of the COinS metadata) could be used to produce a more reasonable rendering of multiple links - without solving the underlying problems with handling multiple dates and archive links, of course. However, while the current live version of the template does not produce any error message, the sandboxed version will throw an "External link in |type=" error (per
Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_77#url_in_name_parameters). For illustration purposes only:
{{
cite web}}
: External link in |type=
(
help)|type=
. Perhaps this could be combined with the rendering of what an already proposed |part=
parameter would produce (if we would allow external links there).Inspired by the discussion at Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#Undesirable_behaviour_of_issue=_in_cite_magazine_when_the_issue_is_a_month_or_months, I wonder if we should add support for two more date range formats allowed by our MOS, but not supported by CS1/CS2 at present:
Ranges with consecutive month names or years separated by "/" instead of "–". At present, they have to be "converted" into en-dash ranges:
For as long as only (non-digit) month names and/or 4-digit years are involved they appear to be free from any possible ambiguities.
The reason why it might be good to support them in citations is that, in the context of publications, if date ranges are used at all, they most often involve consecutive (weeks,) months or years, and if they are printed on a publications' cover, most often slashes are used rather than en-dashes, so a slash would look more "natural" in a citation when citing from, i.e., a bimonthly publication. It may also make entry of those ranges easier.
-- Matthiaspaul ( talk) 17:32, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
a givenNo, that's a waste of our time to entertain the idea. Please get support there first. Izno ( talk) 21:53, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
{{
cite journal}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help).I have hacked an experiment to make {{
literatur/sandbox}}
invoke a lua module. That is discussed at
Template talk:Literatur § lua module experiment.
Because that template is supposed to be subst'd when used, for the experimental module to work with the live
Module:Citation/CS1, it will be necessary to change {{
citation}}
as I did to {{
citation/new}}
with
this edit. Without that change, the subst returns the content of the citation template:
{{#invoke:citation/CS1/sandbox|citation
|CitationClass=citation
}}
and that is a pretty much pointless {{
citation}}
: Empty citation (
help).
If the {{literatur/sandbox}}
experiment is successful, then it makes some sense to do the same thing for other translation templates:
{{
Cita news}}
– requires the subst fix for {{
cite news}}
and {{
cite book}}
{{
Cita libro}}
– requires the subst fix for {{cite book}}
{{
Cite web/German}}
– these require the subst fix for {{cite web}}
{{
Cite web/Finnish}}
{{
Cite web/Swedish}}
{{
Cite web/Portuguese}}
{{
Cite web/Danish}}
{{
Cite web/French}}
{{
Cite web/Polish}}
no doubt there are other translation templates (some of this list I found in Category:Infobox importer templates – why there?) You might think that there is a subcategory in Category:Citation Style 1 templates for translation templates ... There isn't.
So, I propose to modify {{citation}}
, {{cite book}}
, {{cite news}}
, and {{cite web}}
so that translation templates can be subst'd.
Opinions? Objections?
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 20:03, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
{{
citation}}
templates so I created a test page (not saved) that had 1000 of this (grabbed from
Module:Citation/CS1/testcases):
{{citation| url=http://books.google.ca/books?id=WrkzPcxBnLMC |title=Takhta untuk Rakyat: Celah-celah Kehidupan Sultan Hamengku Buwono IX |trans-title=Serving the People: The Life Story of Sultan Hamengku Buwono IX |language=Indonesian |isbn=978-979-22-6767-9 |editor1-first=Mohamad |editor1-last=Roem |editor1-link=Mohamad Roem |editor2-first=Mochtar |editor2-last=Lubis |editor2-link=Mochtar Lubis |editor3-first=Kustiniyati |editor3-last=Mochtar |editor4-first=Maimoen |editor4-last=S. |last=Nasution |first=A. H. |author-link=Abdul Haris Nasution |publisher=Gramedia Pustaka Utama |location=Jakarta |year=2011 |origyear=1982 |edition=Revised}}
{{citation}}
templates to {{
citation/new}}
. Previewing the page again, only 604 template rendered before post‐expand include size limit was exceeded. The various times from the NewPP limit report were:
{{
ifsubst}}
to choose between the subst'd form of the #invoke
and the un-subst'd form
{{citation/new}}
is:
{{
citation/subst}}
template that the translation template could call. The inside of that template would have the substable version of the
Module:Citation/CS1 #invoke
so when subst'd, would return a normal {{citation}}
template except with the {{citation/subst}}
name. If subst'd we might include a maint cat so that {{citation/subst}}
might be manually tweaked back to {{citation}}
. Perhaps a tweak to
Module:Unsubst to add an expicit template-name override parameter to that would be in order... I'll ponder these ideas. For now, the subst experiment at {{citation/new}}
has been reverted.{{
citation/subst}}
which can be called by the translator module. Without modification to
Module:Unsubst, the resulting substitution of a {{
Literatur/sandbox}}
template is a {{citation/subst}}
template. I have tweaked
Module:Unsubst/sandbox so that {{citation/subst}}
can supply an alternate name (in the current case, |$template-name=citation
). When substing a {{Literatur/sandbox}}
template using the Unsubst sandbox, the resulting substitution is a {{citation}}
template. This, I think, solves the problem because {{citation/subst}}
is only called by translation templates that need substing and then once subst'd, the template is a normal cs1|2 template.Category:CS1 errors: unsupported parameter includes 22 pages in the Wikipedia namespace: 14 AFD pages, and 8 pages from the Signpost.
These pages should not be edited, so they are perma-clutter in this cleanup category.
Please can the CS1/2 module(s) be modified to stop categorising citation errors in these pages? Cleanup categories should be capable of being fully cleaned up, but the inclusion of these pages prevents that. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 01:47, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
|no-tracking=yes
parameter to the offending citation. But this requires editing as well, of course.|no-tracking=yes
. It leaves the citation template as it was, shows the error messages, but keeps the page out of error categories.|no-tracking=yes
is the least intrusive solution, so I will do that. --
BrownHairedGirl
(talk) • (
contribs) 18:02, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
Hello, http://reftag.appspot.com/ has been generating this error message for most of this week. Reftag shortens a googlebook url and usually provides the complete cite book reference, including ISBN. Reftag is mentioned in See also at the end of this article Template:Cite book. It is also the topic of this article here.
Error: Server Error The server encountered an error and could not complete your request.
Please try again in 30 seconds.
Nothing improves in 30 seconds or 3 days. Has the link for this helpful tool in Cite Book format been changed?
Thanks. -- Prairieplant ( talk) 04:07, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
Template:Cite_serial#In-source_locations says that |season=
is a supported parameter.
But at
Amy's Choice (Doctor Who)#Continuity (
permalink to current version), two refs using |season=
are throwing a error:
{{
cite serial}}
: Unknown parameter |season=
ignored (|date=
suggested) (
help){{
cite serial}}
: Unknown parameter |season=
ignored (|date=
suggested) (
help)How can this be fixed? -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 02:59, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
|series=
instead? In any case, this is the correct term for post-revival Doctor Who, see
WP:WHO/MOS#Terminology. --
Redrose64 🌹 (
talk) 07:31, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
|series=
is already in use.|season=
was withdrawn from {{
cite serial}}
with
this edit which updated the wikitext version of the template to use {{
citation/core}}
.{{cite serial}}
doc.No doubt this is in the archives but I can't find it. Take for example this citation:
The issue is "November/December 2005", it is nonsense to show it as "no. November/December 2005". The same problem would occur with "issue=Spring 2021" etc. Surely in the case where issues are numbered, the correct argument to use is "number="? How does it make sense to add a "no." prefix to "issue"? -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 09:46, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
{{cite magazine |url=https://archive.aramcoworld.com/pdf/2000/200506.pdf |title=Patterns of Moon, Patterns of Sun |first=Paul |last=Lunde |magazine=Saudi Aramco World |date=November–December 2005 |volume=56 |issue=6 |access-date=2021-08-12}}
issue=
should not insert No. ) must get spiked. --
John Maynard Friedman (
talk) 17:51, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
|issue=
and |number=
are aliases.|number=
is an alias for |issue=
. So they must be expected to behave identically. --
Redrose64 🌹 (
talk) 22:56, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
|issue=6
is not wrong at present, but |number=6
would be better in this case to improve forward compatibility. At present, both parameters are treated as aliases and produce identical output. But different periodicals use different nomenclatures. It is therefore a good idea to use |issue=
when the publication uses "Issues" as well, and |number=
when they use "Numbers", so that the template can adapt and generate the appropriate prefix "Iss." or "No.". If the publication itself does not prescribe a certain nomenclature, it is best to use issues for volume-relative numbering schemes (as well as non-numeric issue names/titles) and number for absolute numbering schemes (because that's what most periodicals use - but not all).|date=
parameter, but there are cases where issues have actual names or titles. This still looks reasonably good in conjunction with |issue=
("Special issue") but not with |number=
.|issue=
and |date=
, and also |quote=
where you can quote the date period verbatim. One or more of those 3 should be sufficient for a small minority of cases.
184.75.82.14 (
talk) 21:35, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
|issue=
), but sometimes publications carry an |issue=
in addition to a named date (and often no "normal" date at all). In these latter cases, these named dates need to be actually handled as a date in |date=
, also for proper metadata generation. If not, it will become more difficult to locate these sources and obtain a copy of these publications in libraries, as they are often not found when stored under a different search key. There are even a number of dedicated
COinS keys reserved for seasons (rft.ssn
), quarters (rft.quarter
) and named dates (rft.chron
), clearly indicating that such dates are actually used in the publishing industry and that they need to be supported in the library business.@ Nigel Ish. These days, it is probable that the number of readers going through stacks of periodicals or buying back issues in order to verify a wikitext claim is smaller than the number of times an issue dated or labeled "Christmas (year)" appears in Wikipedia citations. It is much more likely they will ask someone or some thing for help. It was explained above what is likely to happen then. As was also pointed out before, there are ways to present rare dating info right now, even with rigid elements like templates. Sure, these ways may be stretching the use of the templates, but that is because the rare dating stretches the notion of "date". The entire point is that when there are other, more substantial issues regarding CS1, this and other minor (because rare) items can wait further judgement in time. In the meantime, one of the available fixes can be used. 64.18.10.203 ( talk) 04:41, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
I have a list of 2.4 million journal and magazines like:
journal-of-black-psychology_2014-08_40_4 journal-of-primary-prevention_1982_spring_2_3 journal-of-occupational-and-environmental-medicine_1959-07_1_7
Note the "spring". The four seasons are most common. There are many "supplement, "index", "special issue". Also "first quarter". Many date ranges such as "jan-apr" (or "january-april"). And "winter-spring". Combos like "fourth quarter supplement" and "january-october cumulative". About 80 "christmas". About 20 "midsummer". Nothing with "semester" or "quadrimester". -- Green C 05:17, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
Many pages for academics have a "Works" or "Books" section that lists out their authored books, etc. (
example). For these, I often like to use the CS1 citation templates, just without the surrounding ref tags and without the author parameters, as the author can be presumed to be the subject of the page. However, this gets tricky when there are multiple authors, as listing out only the other authors would be confusing and give the impression that the subject wasn't actually involved. For these instances, I could just write out With {{citation|last=Smith|first=John|title=...
, but I feel like that wouldn't be good for the metadata. Is there a way to do this better within the citation template itself? If not, could we create it? {{u|
Sdkb}}
talk 05:17, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
|author-mask=
and its cousins |author-maskn=
, I believe. —
JohnFromPinckney (
talk /
edits) 06:16, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
|author/editor/translator/...-maskn=
for the names) to suppress certain values from the local output of the citation. (A similar case exists for titles, and we already have some means to mute titles but we are still lacking a proper method to specify a title for metadata but mask it in the local output - I hope we can address this when we add support for descriptive titles, which should show up locally without
text decoration, but should not normally be made part of the metadata, or at least not without being specially marked).Good day,
Currently working on a major edit of MCW Metrobus, some of which involves adding book sources to previously unsourced content. But when using Template:Cite book, what general guidance is there for providing multiple sources from the same book? As in, one source uses the book on one set of pages, while another source uses the book on a different set of pages? Is there, perhaps, a way these sources can be 'combined' so there is no repetition, or is repetition the only way?
Cheers, Hullian111 ( talk) 17:58, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
|pages=
parameter, and optionally merge the corresponding quotes from the source into the |quote=
parameter (which has a separate |quote-pages=
parameter, if the quotes are from a subset of those pages given in the |pages=
parameter only). Once you have defined this citation through something like <ref name="YourRefName">{{cite book |YourCitationParameters=...}}</ref>
, you can then invoke this citation by <ref name="YourRefName"/>
whereever it is needed to support an article statement.<ref name="YourRefName"/>{{rp|YourPageNo}}
. Some people like to combine this into a wrapper template {{
r|YourRefName|p=YourPageNo}}
- this gives exactly the same output but is shorter and easier to read.|page=
or |pages=
parameter that are not page numbers. You can instead use |contribution=
, |chapter=
, or |at=
(but |at=
and |pages=
cannot both be used in the same citation). For {{
sfn}} there is also |loc=
. —
David Eppstein (
talk) 22:17, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
|pages=
supports comma-separated lists of pages, page ranges and linked pages in any combination, but please don't put other information into the parameter. |page=
is for singular pages, and |at=
is for other location information (sheets, columns, paragraphs, etc.) for which the prefix p. or pp. would be misleading. These prefixes also do not belong into the parameter, they are generated by the template itself.|pages=131, 185
parameter, merging the pages info from all short references like {{
rp}}. This gives complete metadata, including page info, in the full citation. It may look a bit odd in the source code of this thread, because the definition of the full citation is located where we are actually only citing page 131, but it creates the correct output anyway, and the definition
[4]: 201 could be added
[4]: 205 into
[4]: 231 the References section further down. I'm creating one here to illustrate this with a third citation:References
References
Bibliography
This is a sidetrack off of Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 77 § summary messaging in the preview warning header. Over the past few days I have been reworking how error messaging is handled in the various modules (primarily Module:Citation/CS1 and Module:Citation/CS1/Identifiers which emit the most errors). In the previous conversation, I suggested that it would be a good thing to move all error messages to the end of the citation. As it is right now, some error messages are made part of the template's rendering which, to me, looks bad.
The live module has a table called z.message_tail
which holds all of the error messages that are rendered following the citation. To load that table, it is necessary for the code to call
set_message()
in
Module:Citation/CS1/Utilities. That function returns the error message as a plain message or as a message wrapped in <span>...</span>
tags appropriately classed for hidden or visible error messages. The function that called set_message()
then has to use the returned message as an appendage on a parameter's data or as a replacement for it; or, the function must insert the returned message into the z.message_tail
table. Moving all error messages to the end of the citation means that set_message()
can insert the message in z.message_tail
as part of its normal operation and so the code is simpler and more consistent.
I have done that. The change primarily impacts
Module:Citation/CS1/sandbox and
Module:Citation/CS1/Identifiers/sandbox but also impacts
Module:Citation/CS1/Utilities/sandbox. I have renamed z.message_tail
to z.error_msgs_t
so that the name reflects its content.
As part of this I have spent a bit of time refining the assembly of the various parts of the finished citation (the citation itself, the anchor ID and the css classes in the <cite>
tag, the metadata, the error messages, the maintenance messages, and the categories (roughly the 100ish lines of code beginning at about line 3844 of Module:Citation/CS1/sandbox). This includes the error and maintenance summaries and the error message prefixes discussed in the previous conversation, sorting of error and maintenance messages. Empty citations will no longer produce metadata because why bother:
{{cite book}}
{{
cite book}}
: Empty citation (
help)
'"`UNIQ--templatestyles-000000B2-QINU`"'<cite class="citation book cs1"></cite> <span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment"><code class="cs1-code">{{[[Template:cite book|cite book]]}}</code>: </span><span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment">Empty citation ([[Help:CS1 errors#empty_citation|help]])</span>
{{cite book/new}}
{{
cite book}}
: Empty citation (
help)
'"`UNIQ--templatestyles-000000B5-QINU`"'<cite class="citation book cs1"></cite> <span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment"><code class="cs1-code">{{[[Template:cite book|cite book]]}}</code>: </span><span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment">Empty citation ([[Help:CS1 errors#empty_citation|help]])</span>
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 22:02, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
{{cite journal |last=Smith |first=John |date=9999 |title=Title of Things |journal=Journal of Stuff |volume=Vol. 34 |issue=1 |pages=23–45 |doi=10.4321/3210 |pmid=012345}}
|volume=
has extra text (
help); Check date values in: |date=
(
help)<span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment">*</span><span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment">*</span>
<span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment">**</span>
{{cite journal/new |title=Title}}
{{
cite journal}}
: Cite journal requires |journal=
(
help)
'"`UNIQ--templatestyles-000000BC-QINU`"'<cite class="citation journal cs1">"Title".</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.atitle=Title&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1%2FArchive+78" class="Z3988"></span> <span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment"><code class="cs1-code">{{[[Template:cite journal|cite journal]]}}</code>: </span><span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment">Cite journal requires <code class="cs1-code">|journal=</code> ([[Help:CS1 errors#missing_periodical|help]])</span>
|ref=harv
the default, we decided to ignore this because the benefit far outweights the problem. Nobody complained about it.However, there is a related, more general issue. This is unrelated to preview messages and the restructuring of error messages, but since we are talking about the structure of the HTML for a citation, I'm bringing this up anyway.
The general structure of a citation (in the sandbox, that is, including the preview message) is as follows:
<span id="cite-book-error"></span><cite id="CITEREF*" class="citation book cs1">Citation with appended messages</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=*" class="Z3988"></span>
Some browers and tools allow to highlight the scope of elements and navigate from element to element or otherwise take advantage of knowing the scope of data elements (screenreaders and browsing assistance tools, web development tools, web harvesters). Right now, they see a citation as an empty preview error span, the actual citation with optional messages appended, followed by the COinS info.
This is somewhat suboptimal. The preview error span should span over the whole citation including messages and COinS data.
In addition to this, the COinS span should ideally span over the citation and messages as well in order to declare the context of the COinS data. This would result in the following nested structure:
<span id="cite-book-error"><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=*" class="Z3988"><cite id="CITEREF*" class="citation book cs1">Citation with appended messages</cite></span></span>
The only adverse effect of this rearrangement I can see right now is that the browser will now display the COinS data as tooltip, which might be confusing. So, if the contents of the COinS span really must be empty, it might be possible to do it the other way around and embed it into the cite element. The preview error span could still wrap around both:
<span id="cite-book-error"><cite id="CITEREF*" class="citation book cs1">Citation with appended messages<span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=*" class="Z3988"></span></cite></span>
In both of these two cases, the proper extraction of COinS data by existing tools would have to be tested, because in the examples I could find on the web they always suggest that this is an empty element (or only containing a space) immediately following the citation. At least wrapping the preview span around both of them will work regardlessly:
<span id="cite-book-error"><cite id="CITEREF*" class="citation book cs1">Citation with appended messages</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=*" class="Z3988"></span></span>
-- Matthiaspaul ( talk) 12:07, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
{{cite book/new |title=Title |access-date=2021-08-01}}
{{
cite book}}
: |access-date=
requires |url=
(
help)
<templatestyles src="Module:Citation/CS1/sandbox/styles.css"></templatestyles><span id="cite-book-error"></span><cite class="citation book cs1">''Title''.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3ABlue" class="Z3988"></span> <span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment"><code class="cs1-code">{{[[Template:cite book|cite book]]}}</code>: </span><span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment"><code class="cs1-code">|access-date=</code> requires <code class="cs1-code">|url=</code> ([[Help:CS1 errors#accessdate_missing_url|help]])</span>[[Category:CS1 errors: access-date without URL]]
<templatestyles></templatestyles>
<span id=<cite book error anchor>></span>
<cite>The Citation</cite>
<span <COinS metadata>></span>
<messaging>
<categories>
{{
anchor}}
implements anchors. It is easy enough to wrap the entire rendering from <cite>
to the end of the last category in the error-anchor and maint-anchor spans. If we did that, we could add an undefined class so that editors can style the anchored citations; don't know how beneficial that would be ...<cite>
to the end of the last category:
{{cite book/new |title=Title |access-date=2021-08-01 |authors=Authors}}
{{
cite book}}
: |access-date=
requires |url=
(
help); Unknown parameter |authors=
ignored (
help)
'"`UNIQ--templatestyles-000000C8-QINU`"'<cite class="citation book cs1">''Title''.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1%2FArchive+78" class="Z3988"></span> <span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment"><code class="cs1-code">{{[[Template:cite book|cite book]]}}</code>: </span><span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment"><code class="cs1-code">|access-date=</code> requires <code class="cs1-code">|url=</code> ([[Help:CS1 errors#accessdate_missing_url|help]])</span>; <span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment">Unknown parameter <code class="cs1-code">|authors=</code> ignored ([[Help:CS1 errors#parameter_ignored|help]])</span>
<cite>
, therefore from the viewpoint of data extraction, it should not matter, if one gets embedded into the other.<cite>
inside COinS span:
<cite>
:
For audiobooks, mainly. Whenever the various situations are sorted out and proper development restarts. This alias may be useful. 66.108.237.246 ( talk) 13:39, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
{{
cite media}}
with |others=Narrated by Simon Vance
. The free-form |others=
allows for multiple narrators; or, "Full-cast" such as BBC radio adaptations of a book that are too many to list, or some staring roles. --
Green
C 14:58, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
|others=
works fine for these roles. Almost none of them help with
WP:V, which is the main purpose of these templates. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 16:09, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
Adding an observation made in this discussion about the illustrator role. Audiobook titles can be found by using the "narrator" info, even when the author is not used. The major trade databases (wholesale & retail) index the "narrator" field, and the narrator is prominently displayed in browse lists along with the author. 65.88.88.76 ( talk) 21:00, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
{{hyphen}}
converted to dash
Help:Citation Style 1#pagehyphen says For a hyphenated page, use
However, I don't believe this is true, as |page=12{{hyphen}}34
. This will not only properly display a hyphen..."{{cite book|title=Title|pages=1{{hyphen}}2}}"
renders as "Title. pp. 1–2." with a dash. --
Ahecht (
TALK
PAGE) 02:27, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
|page=
and |pages=
are not the same thing. Compare your example:
{{cite book|title=Title|pages=1{{hyphen}}2}}
{{cite book|title=Title|page=1{{hyphen}}2}}
Markup can be applied to the entry as a whole or to individual list entries, but that doesn't seem to work for numbers with commas:
{{cite book|title=Title|pages=1, ((1,234))}}
{{cite book |title=Title |pages=1{{hyphen}}2{{endash}}3{{hyphen}}4}}
{{cite book|title=Title|pages=((1{{hyphen}}2)), ((3{{hyphen}}4))}}
where those are intended to by hyphenated page numbers. Any objection to me adding that to the help page? --
Ahecht (
TALK{{cite book|title=Title|pages=((1{{hyphen}}2, 3{{hyphen}}4))}}
{{cite book|title=Title|pages=((1{{hyphen}}2,3{{hyphen}}4))}}