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I was trying to improve CITEVAR consistency in an article that included a {{
cite podcast}} template, and I ran into a bit of trouble. I was trying to change a full name in the |host=
parameter into two separate parameters for the host's name. The documentation says that |host=
is an alias of |last=
, so I tried this:
{{cite podcast|host=Smith|first=Jane |url=http://www.example.com|title=Podcast title}}
→ Smith, Jane.
"Podcast title" (Podcast).
I got two errors: "More than one of author-name-list parameters specified (help); |first1= missing |last1= in Authors list (help)". If |host=
is an alias of |last=
, I don't think I should get those errors.
Then I looked at the documentation, which says that this should work:
{{cite podcast|last=Smith|first=Jane |url=http://www.example.com|title=Podcast title}}
→ Smith, Jane.
"Podcast title" (Podcast).
It does work. This makes me think that the code and the documentation have a mismatch somewhere. Any ideas? – Jonesey95 ( talk) 19:10, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
|host=
is an alias of |authors=
(plural). Not sure why, the {{
citation/core}}
version assigned |host=
to |surname1=
so the documentation is probably correct but the code has been wrong since January 2014.Wikitext | {{cite podcast
|
---|---|
Live | Smith, Jane.
"Podcast title" (Podcast). {{
cite podcast}} : Unknown parameter |sandbox= ignored (
help)
|
Sandbox | Smith, Jane.
"Podcast title" (Podcast). {{
cite podcast}} : Unknown parameter |sandbox= ignored (
help)
|
Wikitext | {{cite podcast
|
---|---|
Live | Smith, Jane; Gomez, Juan.
"Podcast title" (Podcast). {{
cite podcast}} : Unknown parameter |sandbox= ignored (
help)
|
Sandbox | Smith, Jane; Gomez, Juan.
"Podcast title" (Podcast). {{
cite podcast}} : Unknown parameter |sandbox= ignored (
help)
|
The maintenance category for multiple names in a single name parameter (e.g. |author= Name, Name2, Name3) requires more than 1 comma or semicolon to display the message and categorize the page.
Is there any reason why it should not be more than 0 semicolons? -- Izno ( talk) 17:23, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
Editor Izno
points out that cs1|2 does not support |display-interviewers=
and |display-translators=
and that cs1|2 does not detect the un-abbreviated 'et alia'. I have remedied these in the sandbox:
Wikitext | {{cite interview
|
---|---|
Live | Subject; et al. "Title" (Interview). Interviewed by Interviewer; et al. Translated by Translator; et al. {{
cite interview}} : |translator= has generic name (
help); Explicit use of et al. in: |last= (
help)
|
Sandbox | Subject; et al. "Title" (Interview). Interviewed by Interviewer; et al. Translated by Translator; et al. {{
cite interview}} : |translator= has generic name (
help); Explicit use of et al. in: |last= (
help)
|
Similarly, cs1|2 does not support |display-contributors=
though for completeness it probably should. I'll address that in a bit. Are there any others?
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 13:22, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
and |display-contributors=
:
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Contributor; et al. preface. Title. By Author. {{
cite book}} : |last= has generic name (
help)CS1 maint: numeric names: contributors list (
link)
|
Sandbox | Contributor; et al. preface. Title. By Author. {{
cite book}} : |last= has generic name (
help)CS1 maint: numeric names: contributors list (
link)
|
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 14:15, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
Wikitext | {{cite interview
|
---|---|
Live | Subject; et al. "Title" (Interview). Interviewed by Interviewer. Translated by Translator. {{
cite interview}} : |translator= has generic name (
help); Explicit use of et al. in: |last= (
help)
|
Sandbox | Subject; et al. "Title" (Interview). Interviewed by Interviewer. Translated by Translator. {{
cite interview}} : |translator= has generic name (
help); Explicit use of et al. in: |last= (
help)
|
I've been fixing various citations tagged in
Category:CS1 maint: Extra text: editors list for having extra text like "ed." or "eds." in |editor=
and related parameters.
Obenritter rightfully objected on the grounds that in some cases the template was not displaying "ed." at all, so removing the extra text misrepresents the displayed info by (incorrectly) suggesting to the reader than an editor of a work is actually an author. What I didn't realize was, as stated in the documentation of {{
Cite book}}, If authors [are present]: Authors are first, followed by the included work, then "In" and the editors, then the main work. If no authors: Editors appear before the included work; a single editor is followed by "ed."; multiple editors are followed by "eds."
I'm not sure why the presence of an author should negate the need to clearly identify editors beyond the use of "In", and I can't yet find an archived discussion that gets into this. Using Obenritter's examples:
{{
cite book}}
: |editor=
has generic name (
help); Invalid |ref=harv
(
help){{
cite book}}
: Invalid |ref=harv
(
help){{
cite book}}
: |editor-first=
has generic name (
help)CS1 maint: multiple names: editors list (
link)Thanks.— TAnthony Talk 23:03, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
The 'In <Editor> ...' formatting was introduced with the transition from
{{ citation/core}}
to Module:Citation/CS1. Clearly it was done intentionally and is briefly mentioned at Module talk:Citation/CS1/Archive 3#Multi-phase transition to Lua cites. I didn't find the discussions that led to that decision; they may be in the archives of the individual template talk pages.
APA does it the way we do for chapters within books, but with "(Ed.)" after the editor's name.
@ TAnthony, JG66, and Obenritter: one point to consider is that the templates also emit metadata about the information they display. So if you're manually adding "ed." to an editor's name to get it to display, the template would include that extra text as part of the name in the metadata emitted. Assuming tomorrow that your desired extra text were added to the output display of the template, we'd still have to go through and remove the errant extra "ed." inserted in the input parameters because now we'd be displaying that indicator twice, once from the errant input and once from the modified display output.
In short, it's still an error to include extra text within an input parameter that's only supposed to supply the name, regardless of any modification of the output displayed. Imzadi 1979 → 03:07, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
|editor-first=John, ed.
|editor-last=Doe
to get "In Smith, John, ed." as part of the citation, the
CoINS data embedded in the output that can be read by Zotero and other bibliographic tools will be told that the first name of that editor is "John, ed.", which is exactly what you input into the parameter. If you use |editor=Richard Roe, ed.
to get "In Richard Roe, ed." in the citation, the same issue happens, telling those bibliographic tools that his name includes ", ed.". Setting Zotero aside, editors reading the direct wikitext will be told, in a literal sense, that either name includes ", ed.", although I'm sure we'd all agree that many people would intuit that the text doesn't actually form part of the name.For whatever past reasons to which I'm not aware, the "In" text in the middle of a citation followed by a name was used to indicate that the name that followed would be an editor, and again for whatever past reasons to which I'm not aware, it was decided that "ed."/"eds." was unneeded in that case. Conversely, if there was no author indicated, the "ed."/"eds." was inserted to distinguish the placement of a name at the front of a citation as an editor instead of an author because that name was moved to the position normally occupied by an author. In a use case not displayed above, if we have a book with authors and editors, but no individual chapter/contribution being cited, you get something like:
{{
cite book}}
: Invalid |ref=harv
(
help)@ Tanthony, JG66, and Matthiaspaul: I've added the brackets and removed the preceding comma in the sandbox (keeping it consistent with no-author, no-date case), as you all seem to be mostly in agreement. See my example at 16:02, 26 January 2019. Changes in the sandbox are usually deployed quarterly or so. -- Izno ( talk) 14:41, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Module:Citation/CS1/styles.css has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Add /* {{pp-template}} */
to make the CSS page display a lock icon at the top like all other protected pages.
{{3x|p}}ery (
talk) 00:27, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
<ten pending edit requests>mean?
/* {{sandbox other||{{pp-template}}}} */
, but remember, of course, that all of this wikitext is visible to the user reading the CSS page.
{{3x|p}}ery (
talk) 00:50, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
|display-authors=
|displayauthors=
{{
cite arXiv}}
: Unknown parameter |displayauthors=
ignored (|display-authors=
suggested) (
help)Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 01:42, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
{{cite arxiv/new |last=Smith |first=John |year=2001 |title=Title |displayauthors=etal |arxiv=1010.1010}}
{{
cite arXiv}}
: Unknown parameter |displayauthors=
ignored (|display-authors=
suggested) (
help)We have |authormask=
in {{
cite book}}, as it is often used in lists of works on articles about authors.
However, there is a rendering oddity where one of the books in a list has a co-author; consider:
* {{cite book |last1=Cocker |first1=Mark |authormask=0 |title=Birders: Tales of a Tribe |publisher=Jonathan Cape |year=2001}}
* {{cite book |last1=Cocker |first1=Mark |authormask=0 |title=Birds Britannica |first2=Richard |last2=Mabey |publisher=Chatto and Windus |year=2005}}
* {{cite book |last1=Cocker |first1=Mark |authormask=0 |title=A Tiger in the Sand |publisher=Jonathan Cape |year=2006}}
which renders as:
{{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |authormask=
ignored (|author-mask=
suggested) (
help){{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |authormask=
ignored (|author-mask=
suggested) (
help){{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |authormask=
ignored (|author-mask=
suggested) (
help)Would it be possible for the template logic to detect this case, drop the leading semicolon, prepend "with", and put the date to the end?
Is there an alternative work-around? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:29, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
|author-mask=0
because the purpose of that parameter is to show that the author/editor/... name has been omitted for brevity. I think that an 'unflagged' omission does a disservice to readers who might be confused when a name is omitted entirely without any indication that it has been omitted.|display-authors=0
but, this too, may be a source of confusion for readers.A value of 2 displays as:
{{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |authormask=
ignored (|author-mask=
suggested) (
help){{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |authormask=
ignored (|author-mask=
suggested) (
help){{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |authormask=
ignored (|author-mask=
suggested) (
help)Why would we want those long dashes (or longer, with a value of 4) in a section like
Mark Cocker#Bibliography? Note that the formatting issue on the middle line partially persists. Also, why cater for a value of 0 if it's not to be used? And no, |display-authors=0
is not what is wanted, either.
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits 00:15, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
|author-maskn=
it was written to mimic the way {{
citation/core}}
handles the parameter. Because there is no limit in the {{citation/core}}
, there is no limit applied in
Module:Citation/CS1. We could implement limits such that the value assigned to |author-maskn=m
is 0 < m ≤ M where M is some as-yet-unspecified maximum; the module would simply insert M number of mdashes when m is greater than M and one mdash when m is 0.|author-mask=0
issue, mostly inconsistent bibliographic details.|author-mask=0
, without the opinions of sufficient others in this discussion to form some sort of consensus, we are at stalemate.|author-mask=0
is legitimate, moving the date is a special case that exists only when:
{{
cite book}}
and manually format the book list. cs1|2 is a general purpose template suite that is adequate for many uses but not for all uses.|author-mask=with
is better (and new to me), thank you; and works equally well using |authormask1=with |first2=Richard |last2=Mabey
. However, either method leaves the date oddly positioned with relation to the adjacent entries:
{{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |authormask1=
ignored (|author-mask1=
suggested) (
help){{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |authormask1=
ignored (|author-mask1=
suggested) (
help){{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |authormask1=
ignored (|author-mask1=
suggested) (
help)I haven't counted, but I doubt from experience that the use-case I describe is as rare as you seem to think it is. Avoiding cite book is not a solution, since the alternative would remove the COinS metadata (which is why, IIRC, authormask was added in the first place). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:53, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
{{
cite book}}
and where any of |authormask=0
, |author1mask=0
, |authormask1=0
, |author-mask=0
, |author1-mask=0
or |author-mask1=0
are used on the page (not necessarily in a {{cite book}}
). This
search finds 30 articles that use {{
citation}}
(same caveat – some articles also show up in the first search.) These searches are imperfect. Constraining the search to find any of these parameters within {{cite book}}
alone times-out so that's no help. Still, as a worst case, assume that all of these occurrences are book citations and all use either {{cite book}}
or {{citation}}
. For the cite book case, 140 out of a million articles is 0.014%. For the {{citation}}
case, 30 out of 214,000-ish articles is, interestingly, also 0.014%. So, yeah, relatively rare.I'm in the process of converting {{
cite IETF}}
which uses {{
citation/core}}
to instead use {{
citation}}
via
Module:Template wrapper much as I did for {{
cite wikisource}}
.
{{
cite IETF}}
and {{
Cite IETF/sandbox}}
build section urls that are put into |section-url=
. The section urls contain #
delimited fragments. Because #
characters are reserved to MediaWiki for ordered list markup, these templates use the html numeric entity #
.
Module:Citation/CS1 has a function, is_pdf()
, that looks at the various urls to see if they have a PDF file extension with or without #
character fragment delimiters. This function does not look for #
entity delimiters. I have tweaked
Module:Citation/CS1/sandbox to make this detection:
{{cite book |title=Title |url=//example.com/example.pdf#section}}
{{cite book/new |title=Title |url=//example.com/example.pdf#section}}
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 18:54, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
Sharouser has added some code to the sandbox modules that attempts to support {{ Cite ChemRxiv}}. This is a placeholder section for that editor to explain the proposed changes, if they desire to do so, and to show some test cases. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 05:15, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
Because Sharouser has declined to discuss these changes in the sandboxen, I have reverted.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 11:26, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
{{
cite ChemRxiv}}
but I do object to the process you used. This timeline shows that that you:
{{Cite ChemRxiv}}
{{Cite ChemRxiv}}
should be created; if there is, please give a link to that discussion
{{Cite ChemRxiv}}
{{Cite ChemRxiv}}
can be supported if the community needs it; additions to the module suite must be tested to show that the additions work; the base template requires documentation.There are a few maintenance items that I'd like to propose moving to errors. The categories in question are:
These all have consistently very few or no pages in them, indicating that people do find these to be true errors.
However, it's a bit puzzling to me in the module how to do this, since the maintenance and error setups are quite a bit different in Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration.
Moreover, I think this should be a consensus discussion. -- Izno ( talk) 17:07, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
|PMC12334=
, it's done to accommodate some other tool which refuses to strip the PMC part of the PMCID. But the citation displays fine. The maintenance category is useful as is, since running
User:Citation bot (or
User:CitationCleanerBot) on it will not only cleanup the stray 'PMC' part of the ID, but also remove and fix all sorts of crap inserted by that citation tool as well, like redundant URLs.|date=YYYY-MM-DD
is outlawed, I think that we have to keep |year=
so that year disambiguation can be supported (unless, of course, we allow disambiguation within the YMD format: |date=YYYYa-MM-DD
).|year=
entirely from support. Just not to be special-cased as it presently is. --
Izno (
talk) 05:36, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
|date=
and |year=
, which in all respects could be aliases were it not for the disambiguation need that I described. When duplicates of proper aliases occur in cs1|2 templates they get a red
error message. We could rewrite the special case so that |year=
without disambiguation in the presence of |date=
creates the same red error message but it is still a special case becauise we have to support the disambiguated |year=
.|day=
and |month=
so it makes some sense to me to also get rid of |year=
if and when |date=YYYY-MM-DD
is outlawed. Keeping |year=
as an alias of |date=
seems to me to be poor practice because |year=27 February 2019
describes a 'date' not a 'year'.{{
cite book}}
: |author=
has generic name (
help); Explicit use of et al. in: |author=
(
help){{
cite book}}
: |author=
has generic name (
help); Explicit use of et al. in: |author=
(
help){{
cite book}}
: Cite uses deprecated parameter |authors=
(
help){{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |authors=
ignored (
help){{
cite book}}
: |editor=
has generic name (
help); Explicit use of et al. in: |editor=
(
help){{
cite book}}
: |editor=
has generic name (
help); Explicit use of et al. in: |editor=
(
help){{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |editors=
ignored (|editor=
suggested) (
help){{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |editors=
ignored (|editor=
suggested) (
help)|editors=
? --
Izno (
talk) 20:00, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
select_one()
also returns the name of the parameter that it selected. At the time that extract_names()
was modified to detect first-missing-last, select_one()
only returned the selected parameter's value which is why the first-missing-last
error message reads as it does. It wasn't until sometime later that I modified select_one()
to return the selected parameter value and the selected parameter name. I'll look at refining the first-missing-last error messaging.Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title. {{
cite book}} : |first= missing |last= (
help)
|
Sandbox | Title. {{
cite book}} : |first= missing |last= (
help)
|
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Last, First. Title. {{
cite book}} : |first2= missing |last2= (
help)CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (
link)
|
Sandbox | Last, First. Title. {{
cite book}} : |first2= missing |last2= (
help)CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (
link)
|
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title. Translated by Trans-Last, Trans-First. {{
cite book}} : |translator2-first= missing |translator2-last= (
help)CS1 maint: numeric names: translators list (
link)
|
Sandbox | Title. Translated by Trans-Last, Trans-First. {{
cite book}} : |translator2-first= missing |translator2-last= (
help)CS1 maint: numeric names: translators list (
link)
|
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title. Translated by Trans-Last, Trans-First; Trans-Last3, Trans3-First. {{
cite book}} : Missing |translator2= (
help)CS1 maint: numeric names: translators list (
link)
|
Sandbox | Title. Translated by Trans-Last, Trans-First; Trans-Last3, Trans3-First. {{
cite book}} : Missing |translator2= (
help)CS1 maint: numeric names: translators list (
link)
|
error messaging for the various missing name-list parameter now more specific.
All of these errors categorize to Category:CS1 errors: missing author or editor. As you can see from the above, that category also gets translators (and, though not illustrated, interviewers and contributors) so perhaps a different category name would be appropriate?
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 16:39, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
Why does it seem the convention for maintenance messages is "CS1 maint:" and for errors it is not "CS1 error:"? -- Izno ( talk) 19:17, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
I noticed that Editor Izno was poking around in
Module:Citation/CS1/testcases tweaking this and fixing that. I'm glad for that because it pointed up an error related to
this discussion. When I added that change to
Module:Citation/CS1/Identifiers/sandbox I did it wrong (even though I got it right in the discussion). That error left a glaring red, rather cryptic, error message for any citation that used |pmid=
or |jfm=
.
This error is saying the Wikidata doesn't have an entity ID for an empty string. At the time we started using Wikidata for links to articles about the named identifiers in the various different languages that use these modules, neither |pmid=
nor |jfm=
had entity numbers that allow this module to link to the local language article. And it still doesn't though I suppose that for JFM, we could use
zbMATH Open (Q190269) because at en.wiki
JFM is a dab page that links to
Zentralblatt MATH.
While I was looking at the ~/testcases page, I wondered why there were 318 failures (everything). The answer is TemplateStyles. Because there are some 25ish cs1|2 templates, it was easier and arguably better for us to instance our Module:Citation/CS1/styles.css and Module:Citation/CS1/sandbox/styles.css in one place in the code instead of 25 live templates and 25 sandbox templates. But, that causes problems with comparisons (does expected equal actual?) because TemplateStyles inserts a stripmarker at the end of every cs1|2 template rendering and each stripmarker has a unique id number. So, this always fails:
{{#ifeq:{{cite book |title=Title}}|{{cite book |title=Title}}|ok|FAIL}}
even though the two {{
cite book}}
templates are identically written.
As a test, I hacked a bit of code into Module:UnitTests that replaces the identifier in the sandbox module's stripmarker with the identifier from the live module's strip marker:
local stripmarker_id = expected:match ('\127[^\127]*UNIQ%-%-templatestyles%-(%x+)%-QINU[^\127]*\127'); -- get templatestyles strip marker id from reference
if stripmarker_id then
actual = actual:gsub ('(\127[^\127]*UNIQ%-%-templatestyles%-)%x+(%-QINU[^\127]*\127)', '%1'..stripmarker_id..'%2'); -- replace different id with id from expected
end
I don't know if I'll propose this as a permanent change to Module:UnitTests or not so I've documented it here in case I do decide to do that.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 23:07, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
This attempt add a proQuest number (below) doesn't work. If you just use "id=734005592", it puts the id to the left of ProQuest, which is a bit confusing, and I sorta wish the id could link to a ProQuest page (if possible, etc.) Is there a way to do it?
Thanks! ♦ Lingzhi2 (talk) 02:19, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
|id=
, no. As far as I can tell, there is no {{
ProQuest}}
as your example shows (at least by that spelling).References
In reply to Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 50#changes to Template:Citation Style_documentation/publisher,
@ Trappist the monk: I still do not have real use example in enwiki for the parameter in that way, but there is real use example in other lang wiki. It is used that way since the url https://tv.line.me/onepieceth/videos/allDate/#tab_focus is available in only some countries. -- Ans ( talk) 07:50, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
|url-access=
; perhaps |url-access=restricted
where the tool-tip might say something like 'Free access subject to certain restrictions' or some-such. In the rendering of this template:
{{cite web|url=https://tv.line.me/onepieceth/videos/allDate/#tab_focus|title=วันพีซ (ONE PIECE)|publisher=Cartoon Club Channel|publication-place=ประเทศไทย|website=LINE TV|accessdate={{date|2018-12-13}} }}
|publication-place=
tells the reader nothing about the source except that it is published in Thailand. If shown the URL access icon, at least the reader is forewarned (mimicked here with |url-access=limited
):
is it really worth worrying about?
The artidle on James Farish cites a source, one of whose authors is "Mabbett, Ian" (no relation). That author has no Wikipedia article, but does have a Wikidata item: Ian W. Mabbett (Q57340982).
Is there a way, in the citation template, to associate the name with the Wikidata item, short of creating an item for the work cited?
If not, should there be? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:02, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
|author-link=
and potentially something like |wikidata-link=
to every occurrence of an author's name in a citation. Any ideas about how this could be managed?
Peter coxhead (
talk)
[ec] Two subjects are being conflated: whether to link; and over-linking. There are plenty of use-cases for technically facilitating the former. The latter can be managed as easily for Wikidata (in a hypothetical |wikidata-link=
, or whatever) as for Wikipedia, as at presently done for |author-link=
which incidentally, clearly exists both for a purpose and by consensus.
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits 21:00, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
One link to Wikidata for the whole citation is sufficient. There is zero need to clutter citations with oodles of |author-wikidata-link1=
... |author-wikidata-link249=
in
If a link must be provided, for some unfathomable reason, you can link it in the normal way, with |author-link=
pointing to Wikidata.
But really what should be done is
with whatever QID is appropriate for that citation. And then all the stuff about authors (ORCIDS, affiliations, etc...) can be put in there.
Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 21:21, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
"One link to Wikidata for the whole citation is sufficient"- now read what I wrote, in my OP: Is there a way, in the citation template, to associate the name with the Wikidata item, short of creating an item for the work cited?.
"|author-wikidata-link249=
"
How many of our citations have 249 named authors? I note that your fist example displays precisely one. "But really what should be done is..."Then we should have a
|wikidata=
(and not shoehorn this into |id=
); but again, my first point applies.
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits 21:41, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
I like to imagine that this, and all other missing citation features, will be happily resolved by the magic of meta:WikiCite, when it comes one day. Personally, I've had the wild thought that there could be a new namespace, dedicated to authors whose work has been cited, more as an aid to the project, to help understand authors' backgrounds, biases, etc and hence aid in the judgement of the reliability of the sources used. I understand this isn't remotely practicable. And as for linking authors in general: of course that's useful, but it's probably not worth worrying about too much: how many readers read the citations and want to find out more? – Uanfala (talk) 01:41, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
Same for the 2019 category. The reason is that when exactly a DOI became inactive is irrelevant, and nearly impossible to determine. However, we can easily determine if something that was inactive in 2018 is still inactive in 2019. Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 14:06, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
At the page Stellar (payment network), a cite with the working url https://u.today/keybase-starts-supporting-stellar-wallets, which was created using the visual editor citation tool, is marked as Check |url= value. It seems like the citation template doesn't yet accept the .today TLD, since adding e.g. a .com to the end makes the error go away (while breaking the URL). ★NealMcB★ ( talk) 14:39, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
{{cite web |title=Title |url=//archive.today}}
→
"Title".Wikitext | {{cite web
|
---|---|
Live | "Title". |
Sandbox | "Title". |
probably best not to click these links; u.today misbehaves by trashing the back button (chrome latest – not tested with other browsers) |
What is the format of doing foreign language quotes? I've seen this talk discussion in Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_33#How_do_I_do_multiple_quotes and there are proposals to add trans-quote parameter to the templates. — Wei4Green | 唯绿远大 ( talk) 03:40, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
{{
efn}}
and cite them.|trans-quote=
(or even |script-quote=
) parameter, simply because it improves readability and maintainability and would help to establish a consist format for quotations, which we could centrally change when found necessary later on. And, in the very long run, if we would find a better solution, we could transform this into the future format using a bot.|quote=
parameter, sometimes both and without attributation. If the contents of a |trans-quote=
parameter would always be put after the contents of |quote=
, and if it would be put into [brackets] when preceded by |quote=
, this would really help - and not harm in any way elsewhere.Something that bothers me about {{ cite magazine}} is that "Vol." is capitalized whereas "no." isn't, and the omittance of a full stop after the volume number.
For example:
Ideally, I would want it to look like this:
You'll notice the subtle difference, of course. Looking through the archive, I was unable to find any real prior discussion regarding this issue. Although I saw one user mention it, I cannot recall where since I closed the tab. Anyways, I don't expect this to be a contentious suggestion. Pardon my ignorance if it turns out that this is intentional and was previously agreed upon. Jay D. Easy ( talk) 01:23, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
The {{ cite magazine}} template adds an inappropriate space in the issue field after a comma separator in the number.
{{cite magazine |editor1-last=Piggott |editor1-first=Nick |title=Twin crash loco's new identity |magazine=The Railway Magazine |date=March 2002 |volume=148 |issue=1,211 |page=34 |publisher=IPC Media |location=London |issn=0033-8923}}
gives
Piggott, Nick, ed. (March 2002). "Twin crash loco's new identity". The Railway Magazine. Vol. 148, no. 1, 211. London: IPC Media. p. 34. ISSN 0033-8923.
Keith D ( talk) 15:29, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
<nowiki>...</nowiki>
markup:
{{cite magazine |editor1-last=Piggott |editor1-first=Nick |title=Twin crash loco's new identity |magazine=The Railway Magazine |date=March 2002 |volume=148 |issue=<nowiki>1,211</nowiki> |page=34 |publisher=IPC Media |location=London |issn=0033-8923}}
{{cite book |title=Title |pages=1,3,5,7}}
→ Title. pp. 1, 3, 5, 7.When a |url=
is dead and there exists |archive-url=
+ |archive-date=
+ |deadurl=yes
then the |access-date=
becomes somewhat confusing and redundant in the rendered output.
Template:Cite web says |access-date=
is "Not required for linked documents that do not change" and gives example scenarios, such as publication dates. It does not mention archives. This is a curious problem because one would think archive URLs "do not change", but this not true. Wayback URLs can stop working for technical and policy reasons, and they will sometimes get redirected to other pages within the Wayback database that contain different content. Thus it is one of my bot's jobs to hunt for and fix link rot in archive URLs themselves. So unclear if archives qualify as "documents that do not change"?
At the same time, |access-date=
can still be occasionally useful to bots (and maybe people) in certain edge case scenarios, my bot relies on it in some rare instances when data is missing in other fields. Nevertheless I don't think it's so useful that it warrants all the extra rendered dates in the footnotes section.
Proposal: it might be useful to suppress rendering |access-date=
if there is |archive-url=
+ |archive-date=
+ |deadurl=yes
, but still retain the |access-date=
in the template. Thoughts? --
Green
C 16:31, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
{{cite web|url=http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/entry/50107103/50107103se8 |archive-url=https://archive.is/20120708012538/http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/entry/50107103/50107103se8 |dead-url=yes |archive-date=2012-07-08 |title=You have been automatically redirected to the new Oxford English Dictionary website |work=OED| publisher= Oxford University Press|date= |accessdate=2011-04-19}}
{{
cite web}}
: Unknown parameter |dead-url=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (
help)|access-date=
to search in archive.org for a replacement for the pointless archive.is url. I didn't find one.|access-date=
? --
Green
C 17:45, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
|access-date=
as a problem at all (as it's not in the body of an article, but only in the references section). I'm open regarding not displaying them under certain well-defined conditions (like: |dead-url=yes
combined with the existance of an |archive-url=
that still works and an |archive-date=
which is identical to |access-date=
), but I oppose their removal from the source code as recently attempted by rough editors through "citation bot" (and as soon as an |archive-url=
wents bad, |access-date=
should be displayed again). There are several reasons for this:|access-date=
parameters as one (small) piece in this. As you already mentioned, they can not only be useful to find alternative links by narrowing down a timeframe for research, but also help to extend support to article-essential but difficult to source statements into the future at least when originally applied by a trusted editor basically stating something like "I personally checked and hereby certify that this external resource actually existed under this link and supported the statement at this day".|archive-url=
and |archive-date=
given, |access-date=
might not be redundant at all. It might even be more important than the original publishing |date=
.|access-date=
parameters just because they might seem somewhat redundant now is IMO a bad idea in the long run.|dead-url=
. --
Green
C 15:19, 26 March 2019 (UTC)Hi, just spotted
Hofmeister series article that includes |last2=et.al.
that has not got a categorisation of
Category:CS1 maint: Explicit use of et al. may be an odd case.
Keith D (
talk) 10:07, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
Wikitext | {{cite journal
|
---|---|
Live | Dharma-wardana, M. W. C.; et al. "Chronic kidney disease of unknown aetiology and ground-water ionicity: study based on Sri Lanka". Environmental Geochemistry and Health. 37: 221–231.
doi:
10.1007/s10653-014-9641-4. {{
cite journal}} : Explicit use of et al. in: |last2= (
help)
|
Sandbox | Dharma-wardana, M. W. C.; et al. "Chronic kidney disease of unknown aetiology and ground-water ionicity: study based on Sri Lanka". Environmental Geochemistry and Health. 37: 221–231.
doi:
10.1007/s10653-014-9641-4. {{
cite journal}} : Explicit use of et al. in: |last2= (
help)
|
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 50 | Archive 51 | Archive 52 | Archive 53 | Archive 54 | Archive 55 | → | Archive 60 |
I was trying to improve CITEVAR consistency in an article that included a {{
cite podcast}} template, and I ran into a bit of trouble. I was trying to change a full name in the |host=
parameter into two separate parameters for the host's name. The documentation says that |host=
is an alias of |last=
, so I tried this:
{{cite podcast|host=Smith|first=Jane |url=http://www.example.com|title=Podcast title}}
→ Smith, Jane.
"Podcast title" (Podcast).
I got two errors: "More than one of author-name-list parameters specified (help); |first1= missing |last1= in Authors list (help)". If |host=
is an alias of |last=
, I don't think I should get those errors.
Then I looked at the documentation, which says that this should work:
{{cite podcast|last=Smith|first=Jane |url=http://www.example.com|title=Podcast title}}
→ Smith, Jane.
"Podcast title" (Podcast).
It does work. This makes me think that the code and the documentation have a mismatch somewhere. Any ideas? – Jonesey95 ( talk) 19:10, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
|host=
is an alias of |authors=
(plural). Not sure why, the {{
citation/core}}
version assigned |host=
to |surname1=
so the documentation is probably correct but the code has been wrong since January 2014.Wikitext | {{cite podcast
|
---|---|
Live | Smith, Jane.
"Podcast title" (Podcast). {{
cite podcast}} : Unknown parameter |sandbox= ignored (
help)
|
Sandbox | Smith, Jane.
"Podcast title" (Podcast). {{
cite podcast}} : Unknown parameter |sandbox= ignored (
help)
|
Wikitext | {{cite podcast
|
---|---|
Live | Smith, Jane; Gomez, Juan.
"Podcast title" (Podcast). {{
cite podcast}} : Unknown parameter |sandbox= ignored (
help)
|
Sandbox | Smith, Jane; Gomez, Juan.
"Podcast title" (Podcast). {{
cite podcast}} : Unknown parameter |sandbox= ignored (
help)
|
The maintenance category for multiple names in a single name parameter (e.g. |author= Name, Name2, Name3) requires more than 1 comma or semicolon to display the message and categorize the page.
Is there any reason why it should not be more than 0 semicolons? -- Izno ( talk) 17:23, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
Editor Izno
points out that cs1|2 does not support |display-interviewers=
and |display-translators=
and that cs1|2 does not detect the un-abbreviated 'et alia'. I have remedied these in the sandbox:
Wikitext | {{cite interview
|
---|---|
Live | Subject; et al. "Title" (Interview). Interviewed by Interviewer; et al. Translated by Translator; et al. {{
cite interview}} : |translator= has generic name (
help); Explicit use of et al. in: |last= (
help)
|
Sandbox | Subject; et al. "Title" (Interview). Interviewed by Interviewer; et al. Translated by Translator; et al. {{
cite interview}} : |translator= has generic name (
help); Explicit use of et al. in: |last= (
help)
|
Similarly, cs1|2 does not support |display-contributors=
though for completeness it probably should. I'll address that in a bit. Are there any others?
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 13:22, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
and |display-contributors=
:
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Contributor; et al. preface. Title. By Author. {{
cite book}} : |last= has generic name (
help)CS1 maint: numeric names: contributors list (
link)
|
Sandbox | Contributor; et al. preface. Title. By Author. {{
cite book}} : |last= has generic name (
help)CS1 maint: numeric names: contributors list (
link)
|
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 14:15, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
Wikitext | {{cite interview
|
---|---|
Live | Subject; et al. "Title" (Interview). Interviewed by Interviewer. Translated by Translator. {{
cite interview}} : |translator= has generic name (
help); Explicit use of et al. in: |last= (
help)
|
Sandbox | Subject; et al. "Title" (Interview). Interviewed by Interviewer. Translated by Translator. {{
cite interview}} : |translator= has generic name (
help); Explicit use of et al. in: |last= (
help)
|
I've been fixing various citations tagged in
Category:CS1 maint: Extra text: editors list for having extra text like "ed." or "eds." in |editor=
and related parameters.
Obenritter rightfully objected on the grounds that in some cases the template was not displaying "ed." at all, so removing the extra text misrepresents the displayed info by (incorrectly) suggesting to the reader than an editor of a work is actually an author. What I didn't realize was, as stated in the documentation of {{
Cite book}}, If authors [are present]: Authors are first, followed by the included work, then "In" and the editors, then the main work. If no authors: Editors appear before the included work; a single editor is followed by "ed."; multiple editors are followed by "eds."
I'm not sure why the presence of an author should negate the need to clearly identify editors beyond the use of "In", and I can't yet find an archived discussion that gets into this. Using Obenritter's examples:
{{
cite book}}
: |editor=
has generic name (
help); Invalid |ref=harv
(
help){{
cite book}}
: Invalid |ref=harv
(
help){{
cite book}}
: |editor-first=
has generic name (
help)CS1 maint: multiple names: editors list (
link)Thanks.— TAnthony Talk 23:03, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
The 'In <Editor> ...' formatting was introduced with the transition from
{{ citation/core}}
to Module:Citation/CS1. Clearly it was done intentionally and is briefly mentioned at Module talk:Citation/CS1/Archive 3#Multi-phase transition to Lua cites. I didn't find the discussions that led to that decision; they may be in the archives of the individual template talk pages.
APA does it the way we do for chapters within books, but with "(Ed.)" after the editor's name.
@ TAnthony, JG66, and Obenritter: one point to consider is that the templates also emit metadata about the information they display. So if you're manually adding "ed." to an editor's name to get it to display, the template would include that extra text as part of the name in the metadata emitted. Assuming tomorrow that your desired extra text were added to the output display of the template, we'd still have to go through and remove the errant extra "ed." inserted in the input parameters because now we'd be displaying that indicator twice, once from the errant input and once from the modified display output.
In short, it's still an error to include extra text within an input parameter that's only supposed to supply the name, regardless of any modification of the output displayed. Imzadi 1979 → 03:07, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
|editor-first=John, ed.
|editor-last=Doe
to get "In Smith, John, ed." as part of the citation, the
CoINS data embedded in the output that can be read by Zotero and other bibliographic tools will be told that the first name of that editor is "John, ed.", which is exactly what you input into the parameter. If you use |editor=Richard Roe, ed.
to get "In Richard Roe, ed." in the citation, the same issue happens, telling those bibliographic tools that his name includes ", ed.". Setting Zotero aside, editors reading the direct wikitext will be told, in a literal sense, that either name includes ", ed.", although I'm sure we'd all agree that many people would intuit that the text doesn't actually form part of the name.For whatever past reasons to which I'm not aware, the "In" text in the middle of a citation followed by a name was used to indicate that the name that followed would be an editor, and again for whatever past reasons to which I'm not aware, it was decided that "ed."/"eds." was unneeded in that case. Conversely, if there was no author indicated, the "ed."/"eds." was inserted to distinguish the placement of a name at the front of a citation as an editor instead of an author because that name was moved to the position normally occupied by an author. In a use case not displayed above, if we have a book with authors and editors, but no individual chapter/contribution being cited, you get something like:
{{
cite book}}
: Invalid |ref=harv
(
help)@ Tanthony, JG66, and Matthiaspaul: I've added the brackets and removed the preceding comma in the sandbox (keeping it consistent with no-author, no-date case), as you all seem to be mostly in agreement. See my example at 16:02, 26 January 2019. Changes in the sandbox are usually deployed quarterly or so. -- Izno ( talk) 14:41, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Module:Citation/CS1/styles.css has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Add /* {{pp-template}} */
to make the CSS page display a lock icon at the top like all other protected pages.
{{3x|p}}ery (
talk) 00:27, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
<ten pending edit requests>mean?
/* {{sandbox other||{{pp-template}}}} */
, but remember, of course, that all of this wikitext is visible to the user reading the CSS page.
{{3x|p}}ery (
talk) 00:50, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
|display-authors=
|displayauthors=
{{
cite arXiv}}
: Unknown parameter |displayauthors=
ignored (|display-authors=
suggested) (
help)Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 01:42, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
{{cite arxiv/new |last=Smith |first=John |year=2001 |title=Title |displayauthors=etal |arxiv=1010.1010}}
{{
cite arXiv}}
: Unknown parameter |displayauthors=
ignored (|display-authors=
suggested) (
help)We have |authormask=
in {{
cite book}}, as it is often used in lists of works on articles about authors.
However, there is a rendering oddity where one of the books in a list has a co-author; consider:
* {{cite book |last1=Cocker |first1=Mark |authormask=0 |title=Birders: Tales of a Tribe |publisher=Jonathan Cape |year=2001}}
* {{cite book |last1=Cocker |first1=Mark |authormask=0 |title=Birds Britannica |first2=Richard |last2=Mabey |publisher=Chatto and Windus |year=2005}}
* {{cite book |last1=Cocker |first1=Mark |authormask=0 |title=A Tiger in the Sand |publisher=Jonathan Cape |year=2006}}
which renders as:
{{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |authormask=
ignored (|author-mask=
suggested) (
help){{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |authormask=
ignored (|author-mask=
suggested) (
help){{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |authormask=
ignored (|author-mask=
suggested) (
help)Would it be possible for the template logic to detect this case, drop the leading semicolon, prepend "with", and put the date to the end?
Is there an alternative work-around? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:29, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
|author-mask=0
because the purpose of that parameter is to show that the author/editor/... name has been omitted for brevity. I think that an 'unflagged' omission does a disservice to readers who might be confused when a name is omitted entirely without any indication that it has been omitted.|display-authors=0
but, this too, may be a source of confusion for readers.A value of 2 displays as:
{{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |authormask=
ignored (|author-mask=
suggested) (
help){{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |authormask=
ignored (|author-mask=
suggested) (
help){{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |authormask=
ignored (|author-mask=
suggested) (
help)Why would we want those long dashes (or longer, with a value of 4) in a section like
Mark Cocker#Bibliography? Note that the formatting issue on the middle line partially persists. Also, why cater for a value of 0 if it's not to be used? And no, |display-authors=0
is not what is wanted, either.
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits 00:15, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
|author-maskn=
it was written to mimic the way {{
citation/core}}
handles the parameter. Because there is no limit in the {{citation/core}}
, there is no limit applied in
Module:Citation/CS1. We could implement limits such that the value assigned to |author-maskn=m
is 0 < m ≤ M where M is some as-yet-unspecified maximum; the module would simply insert M number of mdashes when m is greater than M and one mdash when m is 0.|author-mask=0
issue, mostly inconsistent bibliographic details.|author-mask=0
, without the opinions of sufficient others in this discussion to form some sort of consensus, we are at stalemate.|author-mask=0
is legitimate, moving the date is a special case that exists only when:
{{
cite book}}
and manually format the book list. cs1|2 is a general purpose template suite that is adequate for many uses but not for all uses.|author-mask=with
is better (and new to me), thank you; and works equally well using |authormask1=with |first2=Richard |last2=Mabey
. However, either method leaves the date oddly positioned with relation to the adjacent entries:
{{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |authormask1=
ignored (|author-mask1=
suggested) (
help){{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |authormask1=
ignored (|author-mask1=
suggested) (
help){{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |authormask1=
ignored (|author-mask1=
suggested) (
help)I haven't counted, but I doubt from experience that the use-case I describe is as rare as you seem to think it is. Avoiding cite book is not a solution, since the alternative would remove the COinS metadata (which is why, IIRC, authormask was added in the first place). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:53, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
{{
cite book}}
and where any of |authormask=0
, |author1mask=0
, |authormask1=0
, |author-mask=0
, |author1-mask=0
or |author-mask1=0
are used on the page (not necessarily in a {{cite book}}
). This
search finds 30 articles that use {{
citation}}
(same caveat – some articles also show up in the first search.) These searches are imperfect. Constraining the search to find any of these parameters within {{cite book}}
alone times-out so that's no help. Still, as a worst case, assume that all of these occurrences are book citations and all use either {{cite book}}
or {{citation}}
. For the cite book case, 140 out of a million articles is 0.014%. For the {{citation}}
case, 30 out of 214,000-ish articles is, interestingly, also 0.014%. So, yeah, relatively rare.I'm in the process of converting {{
cite IETF}}
which uses {{
citation/core}}
to instead use {{
citation}}
via
Module:Template wrapper much as I did for {{
cite wikisource}}
.
{{
cite IETF}}
and {{
Cite IETF/sandbox}}
build section urls that are put into |section-url=
. The section urls contain #
delimited fragments. Because #
characters are reserved to MediaWiki for ordered list markup, these templates use the html numeric entity #
.
Module:Citation/CS1 has a function, is_pdf()
, that looks at the various urls to see if they have a PDF file extension with or without #
character fragment delimiters. This function does not look for #
entity delimiters. I have tweaked
Module:Citation/CS1/sandbox to make this detection:
{{cite book |title=Title |url=//example.com/example.pdf#section}}
{{cite book/new |title=Title |url=//example.com/example.pdf#section}}
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 18:54, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
Sharouser has added some code to the sandbox modules that attempts to support {{ Cite ChemRxiv}}. This is a placeholder section for that editor to explain the proposed changes, if they desire to do so, and to show some test cases. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 05:15, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
Because Sharouser has declined to discuss these changes in the sandboxen, I have reverted.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 11:26, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
{{
cite ChemRxiv}}
but I do object to the process you used. This timeline shows that that you:
{{Cite ChemRxiv}}
{{Cite ChemRxiv}}
should be created; if there is, please give a link to that discussion
{{Cite ChemRxiv}}
{{Cite ChemRxiv}}
can be supported if the community needs it; additions to the module suite must be tested to show that the additions work; the base template requires documentation.There are a few maintenance items that I'd like to propose moving to errors. The categories in question are:
These all have consistently very few or no pages in them, indicating that people do find these to be true errors.
However, it's a bit puzzling to me in the module how to do this, since the maintenance and error setups are quite a bit different in Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration.
Moreover, I think this should be a consensus discussion. -- Izno ( talk) 17:07, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
|PMC12334=
, it's done to accommodate some other tool which refuses to strip the PMC part of the PMCID. But the citation displays fine. The maintenance category is useful as is, since running
User:Citation bot (or
User:CitationCleanerBot) on it will not only cleanup the stray 'PMC' part of the ID, but also remove and fix all sorts of crap inserted by that citation tool as well, like redundant URLs.|date=YYYY-MM-DD
is outlawed, I think that we have to keep |year=
so that year disambiguation can be supported (unless, of course, we allow disambiguation within the YMD format: |date=YYYYa-MM-DD
).|year=
entirely from support. Just not to be special-cased as it presently is. --
Izno (
talk) 05:36, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
|date=
and |year=
, which in all respects could be aliases were it not for the disambiguation need that I described. When duplicates of proper aliases occur in cs1|2 templates they get a red
error message. We could rewrite the special case so that |year=
without disambiguation in the presence of |date=
creates the same red error message but it is still a special case becauise we have to support the disambiguated |year=
.|day=
and |month=
so it makes some sense to me to also get rid of |year=
if and when |date=YYYY-MM-DD
is outlawed. Keeping |year=
as an alias of |date=
seems to me to be poor practice because |year=27 February 2019
describes a 'date' not a 'year'.{{
cite book}}
: |author=
has generic name (
help); Explicit use of et al. in: |author=
(
help){{
cite book}}
: |author=
has generic name (
help); Explicit use of et al. in: |author=
(
help){{
cite book}}
: Cite uses deprecated parameter |authors=
(
help){{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |authors=
ignored (
help){{
cite book}}
: |editor=
has generic name (
help); Explicit use of et al. in: |editor=
(
help){{
cite book}}
: |editor=
has generic name (
help); Explicit use of et al. in: |editor=
(
help){{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |editors=
ignored (|editor=
suggested) (
help){{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |editors=
ignored (|editor=
suggested) (
help)|editors=
? --
Izno (
talk) 20:00, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
select_one()
also returns the name of the parameter that it selected. At the time that extract_names()
was modified to detect first-missing-last, select_one()
only returned the selected parameter's value which is why the first-missing-last
error message reads as it does. It wasn't until sometime later that I modified select_one()
to return the selected parameter value and the selected parameter name. I'll look at refining the first-missing-last error messaging.Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title. {{
cite book}} : |first= missing |last= (
help)
|
Sandbox | Title. {{
cite book}} : |first= missing |last= (
help)
|
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Last, First. Title. {{
cite book}} : |first2= missing |last2= (
help)CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (
link)
|
Sandbox | Last, First. Title. {{
cite book}} : |first2= missing |last2= (
help)CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (
link)
|
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title. Translated by Trans-Last, Trans-First. {{
cite book}} : |translator2-first= missing |translator2-last= (
help)CS1 maint: numeric names: translators list (
link)
|
Sandbox | Title. Translated by Trans-Last, Trans-First. {{
cite book}} : |translator2-first= missing |translator2-last= (
help)CS1 maint: numeric names: translators list (
link)
|
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Title. Translated by Trans-Last, Trans-First; Trans-Last3, Trans3-First. {{
cite book}} : Missing |translator2= (
help)CS1 maint: numeric names: translators list (
link)
|
Sandbox | Title. Translated by Trans-Last, Trans-First; Trans-Last3, Trans3-First. {{
cite book}} : Missing |translator2= (
help)CS1 maint: numeric names: translators list (
link)
|
error messaging for the various missing name-list parameter now more specific.
All of these errors categorize to Category:CS1 errors: missing author or editor. As you can see from the above, that category also gets translators (and, though not illustrated, interviewers and contributors) so perhaps a different category name would be appropriate?
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 16:39, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
Why does it seem the convention for maintenance messages is "CS1 maint:" and for errors it is not "CS1 error:"? -- Izno ( talk) 19:17, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
I noticed that Editor Izno was poking around in
Module:Citation/CS1/testcases tweaking this and fixing that. I'm glad for that because it pointed up an error related to
this discussion. When I added that change to
Module:Citation/CS1/Identifiers/sandbox I did it wrong (even though I got it right in the discussion). That error left a glaring red, rather cryptic, error message for any citation that used |pmid=
or |jfm=
.
This error is saying the Wikidata doesn't have an entity ID for an empty string. At the time we started using Wikidata for links to articles about the named identifiers in the various different languages that use these modules, neither |pmid=
nor |jfm=
had entity numbers that allow this module to link to the local language article. And it still doesn't though I suppose that for JFM, we could use
zbMATH Open (Q190269) because at en.wiki
JFM is a dab page that links to
Zentralblatt MATH.
While I was looking at the ~/testcases page, I wondered why there were 318 failures (everything). The answer is TemplateStyles. Because there are some 25ish cs1|2 templates, it was easier and arguably better for us to instance our Module:Citation/CS1/styles.css and Module:Citation/CS1/sandbox/styles.css in one place in the code instead of 25 live templates and 25 sandbox templates. But, that causes problems with comparisons (does expected equal actual?) because TemplateStyles inserts a stripmarker at the end of every cs1|2 template rendering and each stripmarker has a unique id number. So, this always fails:
{{#ifeq:{{cite book |title=Title}}|{{cite book |title=Title}}|ok|FAIL}}
even though the two {{
cite book}}
templates are identically written.
As a test, I hacked a bit of code into Module:UnitTests that replaces the identifier in the sandbox module's stripmarker with the identifier from the live module's strip marker:
local stripmarker_id = expected:match ('\127[^\127]*UNIQ%-%-templatestyles%-(%x+)%-QINU[^\127]*\127'); -- get templatestyles strip marker id from reference
if stripmarker_id then
actual = actual:gsub ('(\127[^\127]*UNIQ%-%-templatestyles%-)%x+(%-QINU[^\127]*\127)', '%1'..stripmarker_id..'%2'); -- replace different id with id from expected
end
I don't know if I'll propose this as a permanent change to Module:UnitTests or not so I've documented it here in case I do decide to do that.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 23:07, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
This attempt add a proQuest number (below) doesn't work. If you just use "id=734005592", it puts the id to the left of ProQuest, which is a bit confusing, and I sorta wish the id could link to a ProQuest page (if possible, etc.) Is there a way to do it?
Thanks! ♦ Lingzhi2 (talk) 02:19, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
|id=
, no. As far as I can tell, there is no {{
ProQuest}}
as your example shows (at least by that spelling).References
In reply to Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 50#changes to Template:Citation Style_documentation/publisher,
@ Trappist the monk: I still do not have real use example in enwiki for the parameter in that way, but there is real use example in other lang wiki. It is used that way since the url https://tv.line.me/onepieceth/videos/allDate/#tab_focus is available in only some countries. -- Ans ( talk) 07:50, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
|url-access=
; perhaps |url-access=restricted
where the tool-tip might say something like 'Free access subject to certain restrictions' or some-such. In the rendering of this template:
{{cite web|url=https://tv.line.me/onepieceth/videos/allDate/#tab_focus|title=วันพีซ (ONE PIECE)|publisher=Cartoon Club Channel|publication-place=ประเทศไทย|website=LINE TV|accessdate={{date|2018-12-13}} }}
|publication-place=
tells the reader nothing about the source except that it is published in Thailand. If shown the URL access icon, at least the reader is forewarned (mimicked here with |url-access=limited
):
is it really worth worrying about?
The artidle on James Farish cites a source, one of whose authors is "Mabbett, Ian" (no relation). That author has no Wikipedia article, but does have a Wikidata item: Ian W. Mabbett (Q57340982).
Is there a way, in the citation template, to associate the name with the Wikidata item, short of creating an item for the work cited?
If not, should there be? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:02, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
|author-link=
and potentially something like |wikidata-link=
to every occurrence of an author's name in a citation. Any ideas about how this could be managed?
Peter coxhead (
talk)
[ec] Two subjects are being conflated: whether to link; and over-linking. There are plenty of use-cases for technically facilitating the former. The latter can be managed as easily for Wikidata (in a hypothetical |wikidata-link=
, or whatever) as for Wikipedia, as at presently done for |author-link=
which incidentally, clearly exists both for a purpose and by consensus.
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits 21:00, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
One link to Wikidata for the whole citation is sufficient. There is zero need to clutter citations with oodles of |author-wikidata-link1=
... |author-wikidata-link249=
in
If a link must be provided, for some unfathomable reason, you can link it in the normal way, with |author-link=
pointing to Wikidata.
But really what should be done is
with whatever QID is appropriate for that citation. And then all the stuff about authors (ORCIDS, affiliations, etc...) can be put in there.
Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 21:21, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
"One link to Wikidata for the whole citation is sufficient"- now read what I wrote, in my OP: Is there a way, in the citation template, to associate the name with the Wikidata item, short of creating an item for the work cited?.
"|author-wikidata-link249=
"
How many of our citations have 249 named authors? I note that your fist example displays precisely one. "But really what should be done is..."Then we should have a
|wikidata=
(and not shoehorn this into |id=
); but again, my first point applies.
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits 21:41, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
I like to imagine that this, and all other missing citation features, will be happily resolved by the magic of meta:WikiCite, when it comes one day. Personally, I've had the wild thought that there could be a new namespace, dedicated to authors whose work has been cited, more as an aid to the project, to help understand authors' backgrounds, biases, etc and hence aid in the judgement of the reliability of the sources used. I understand this isn't remotely practicable. And as for linking authors in general: of course that's useful, but it's probably not worth worrying about too much: how many readers read the citations and want to find out more? – Uanfala (talk) 01:41, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
Same for the 2019 category. The reason is that when exactly a DOI became inactive is irrelevant, and nearly impossible to determine. However, we can easily determine if something that was inactive in 2018 is still inactive in 2019. Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 14:06, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
At the page Stellar (payment network), a cite with the working url https://u.today/keybase-starts-supporting-stellar-wallets, which was created using the visual editor citation tool, is marked as Check |url= value. It seems like the citation template doesn't yet accept the .today TLD, since adding e.g. a .com to the end makes the error go away (while breaking the URL). ★NealMcB★ ( talk) 14:39, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
{{cite web |title=Title |url=//archive.today}}
→
"Title".Wikitext | {{cite web
|
---|---|
Live | "Title". |
Sandbox | "Title". |
probably best not to click these links; u.today misbehaves by trashing the back button (chrome latest – not tested with other browsers) |
What is the format of doing foreign language quotes? I've seen this talk discussion in Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_33#How_do_I_do_multiple_quotes and there are proposals to add trans-quote parameter to the templates. — Wei4Green | 唯绿远大 ( talk) 03:40, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
{{
efn}}
and cite them.|trans-quote=
(or even |script-quote=
) parameter, simply because it improves readability and maintainability and would help to establish a consist format for quotations, which we could centrally change when found necessary later on. And, in the very long run, if we would find a better solution, we could transform this into the future format using a bot.|quote=
parameter, sometimes both and without attributation. If the contents of a |trans-quote=
parameter would always be put after the contents of |quote=
, and if it would be put into [brackets] when preceded by |quote=
, this would really help - and not harm in any way elsewhere.Something that bothers me about {{ cite magazine}} is that "Vol." is capitalized whereas "no." isn't, and the omittance of a full stop after the volume number.
For example:
Ideally, I would want it to look like this:
You'll notice the subtle difference, of course. Looking through the archive, I was unable to find any real prior discussion regarding this issue. Although I saw one user mention it, I cannot recall where since I closed the tab. Anyways, I don't expect this to be a contentious suggestion. Pardon my ignorance if it turns out that this is intentional and was previously agreed upon. Jay D. Easy ( talk) 01:23, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
The {{ cite magazine}} template adds an inappropriate space in the issue field after a comma separator in the number.
{{cite magazine |editor1-last=Piggott |editor1-first=Nick |title=Twin crash loco's new identity |magazine=The Railway Magazine |date=March 2002 |volume=148 |issue=1,211 |page=34 |publisher=IPC Media |location=London |issn=0033-8923}}
gives
Piggott, Nick, ed. (March 2002). "Twin crash loco's new identity". The Railway Magazine. Vol. 148, no. 1, 211. London: IPC Media. p. 34. ISSN 0033-8923.
Keith D ( talk) 15:29, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
<nowiki>...</nowiki>
markup:
{{cite magazine |editor1-last=Piggott |editor1-first=Nick |title=Twin crash loco's new identity |magazine=The Railway Magazine |date=March 2002 |volume=148 |issue=<nowiki>1,211</nowiki> |page=34 |publisher=IPC Media |location=London |issn=0033-8923}}
{{cite book |title=Title |pages=1,3,5,7}}
→ Title. pp. 1, 3, 5, 7.When a |url=
is dead and there exists |archive-url=
+ |archive-date=
+ |deadurl=yes
then the |access-date=
becomes somewhat confusing and redundant in the rendered output.
Template:Cite web says |access-date=
is "Not required for linked documents that do not change" and gives example scenarios, such as publication dates. It does not mention archives. This is a curious problem because one would think archive URLs "do not change", but this not true. Wayback URLs can stop working for technical and policy reasons, and they will sometimes get redirected to other pages within the Wayback database that contain different content. Thus it is one of my bot's jobs to hunt for and fix link rot in archive URLs themselves. So unclear if archives qualify as "documents that do not change"?
At the same time, |access-date=
can still be occasionally useful to bots (and maybe people) in certain edge case scenarios, my bot relies on it in some rare instances when data is missing in other fields. Nevertheless I don't think it's so useful that it warrants all the extra rendered dates in the footnotes section.
Proposal: it might be useful to suppress rendering |access-date=
if there is |archive-url=
+ |archive-date=
+ |deadurl=yes
, but still retain the |access-date=
in the template. Thoughts? --
Green
C 16:31, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
{{cite web|url=http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/entry/50107103/50107103se8 |archive-url=https://archive.is/20120708012538/http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/entry/50107103/50107103se8 |dead-url=yes |archive-date=2012-07-08 |title=You have been automatically redirected to the new Oxford English Dictionary website |work=OED| publisher= Oxford University Press|date= |accessdate=2011-04-19}}
{{
cite web}}
: Unknown parameter |dead-url=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (
help)|access-date=
to search in archive.org for a replacement for the pointless archive.is url. I didn't find one.|access-date=
? --
Green
C 17:45, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
|access-date=
as a problem at all (as it's not in the body of an article, but only in the references section). I'm open regarding not displaying them under certain well-defined conditions (like: |dead-url=yes
combined with the existance of an |archive-url=
that still works and an |archive-date=
which is identical to |access-date=
), but I oppose their removal from the source code as recently attempted by rough editors through "citation bot" (and as soon as an |archive-url=
wents bad, |access-date=
should be displayed again). There are several reasons for this:|access-date=
parameters as one (small) piece in this. As you already mentioned, they can not only be useful to find alternative links by narrowing down a timeframe for research, but also help to extend support to article-essential but difficult to source statements into the future at least when originally applied by a trusted editor basically stating something like "I personally checked and hereby certify that this external resource actually existed under this link and supported the statement at this day".|archive-url=
and |archive-date=
given, |access-date=
might not be redundant at all. It might even be more important than the original publishing |date=
.|access-date=
parameters just because they might seem somewhat redundant now is IMO a bad idea in the long run.|dead-url=
. --
Green
C 15:19, 26 March 2019 (UTC)Hi, just spotted
Hofmeister series article that includes |last2=et.al.
that has not got a categorisation of
Category:CS1 maint: Explicit use of et al. may be an odd case.
Keith D (
talk) 10:07, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
Wikitext | {{cite journal
|
---|---|
Live | Dharma-wardana, M. W. C.; et al. "Chronic kidney disease of unknown aetiology and ground-water ionicity: study based on Sri Lanka". Environmental Geochemistry and Health. 37: 221–231.
doi:
10.1007/s10653-014-9641-4. {{
cite journal}} : Explicit use of et al. in: |last2= (
help)
|
Sandbox | Dharma-wardana, M. W. C.; et al. "Chronic kidney disease of unknown aetiology and ground-water ionicity: study based on Sri Lanka". Environmental Geochemistry and Health. 37: 221–231.
doi:
10.1007/s10653-014-9641-4. {{
cite journal}} : Explicit use of et al. in: |last2= (
help)
|