This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 30 | ← | Archive 35 | Archive 36 | Archive 37 | Archive 38 | Archive 39 | Archive 40 |
The error "line feed character in |publisher= at position 26" is not cool. Templates are supposed to be whitespace-agnostic, and if the template can detect the presence of an LF it can also strip it out for metadata purposes. This is an impediment to copy-pasting source details. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 01:18, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
I've set up the bot request for you, at Wikipedia:Bot requests/Archive 75#Linefeed "hunter-killer". Feel free to make it more specific or whatever. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 21:27, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
It somehow escaped us to include the error handlers for the cases where {{
cite bioRxiv}}
and {{
cite citeseerx}}
are missing their respective parameters |biorxiv=
and |citeseerx=
. That oversight has been remedied in the sandbox:
Wikitext | {{cite bioRxiv
|
---|---|
Live | "Title". {{
cite bioRxiv}} : |biorxiv= required (
help)
|
Sandbox | "Title". {{
cite bioRxiv}} : |biorxiv= required (
help)
|
Wikitext | {{cite citeseerx
|
---|---|
Live | "Title". {{
cite CiteSeerX}} : |citeseerx= required (
help)
|
Sandbox | "Title". {{
cite CiteSeerX}} : |citeseerx= required (
help)
|
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 11:10, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
Can |collaboration-link=
be made, analogous to |author-link=
, etc.? Example @
K2K experiment. ~
Tom.Reding (
talk ⋅
dgaf) 14:57, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
|author-link=
is to provide a way of linking a |last=
, |first=
pair because the two cannot be wikilinked. But, |collaboration=
can be wikilinked:{{cite journal |author = M. H. Ahn |collaboration=[[K2K experiment#Collaboration|K2K Collaboration]] |date = 2006 |title = Measurement of Neutrino Oscillation by the K2K Experiment |journal = [[Physical Review D]] |volume = 74|pages = 072003 |doi = 10.1103/PhysRevD.74.072003 |id = |arxiv=hep-ex/0606032 |bibcode = 2006PhRvD..74g2003A |issue = 7 }}
I need to add the <ref></ref> myself afterwards?! — fortuna velut luna 17:19, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
{{
cite thesis}}
supports page numbers:
{{cite thesis |title=Title |pages=3–9}}
|page=
in {{
cite thesis}}. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 22:15, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
Would it be possible to get a sub-class of cite encyclopedia for citing collections that are not encyclopedias? Perhaps "cite collection"? I realize there is no technical reason for this, but the semantic context is currently being obscured and that is a Bad Thing. Maury Markowitz ( talk) 13:10, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
This seems to throw an error when using dates of Classics
{{
cite book|year= 8|title= ABC|author= ZYX}}
ZYX (8). ABC. {{
cite book}}
: Check date values in: |year=
(
help)
{{
cite book|year= 8 AD|title= ABC|author= ZYX}}
ZYX (8 AD). ABC. {{
cite book}}
: Check date values in: |year=
(
help)
{{
cite book|year= 56 CE|title= ABC|author= ZYX}}
ZYX (56 CE). ABC. {{
cite book}}
: Check date values in: |year=
(
help)
{{
cite book|year= 56|title= ABC|author= ZYX}}
ZYX (56). ABC. {{
cite book}}
: Check date values in: |year=
(
help)
{{
cite book|year= 267|title= ABC|author= ZYX}}
ZYX (267). ABC.
{{
cite book|year= 124 BCE|title= ABC|author= ZYX}}
ZYX (124 BCE). ABC. {{
cite book}}
: Check date values in: |year=
(
help)
{{
cite book|year= -56|title= ABC|author= ZYX}}
ZYX (-56). ABC. {{
cite book}}
: Check date values in: |year=
(
help)
{{
cite book|year= 3 BC|title= ABC|author= ZYX}}
ZYX (3 BC). ABC. {{
cite book}}
: Check date values in: |year=
(
help)
It appears to need a three digit absolute magnitude value or greater. This is clearly an error in the processor. -- 70.51.46.15 ( talk) 06:57, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
{{cite book|author=Ovid|title=Metamorphoses|at=II.153}}
Ovid. Metamorphoses. II.153.
|year=8 AD
is inappropriate. Cite the source that you read.|year=
values to three digits. While the technical limitation no-longer applies because of new technology, the constraint was left in and, but for the occasional case like the one in hand, there has been little call to extend date-handling support to cover all time. When the scholars of ancient texts take up their pitchforks and torches and clamber for ancient-date support in cs1|2, we can certainly consider it.{{
cite book|orig-year= 8|title= ABC|author= ZYX}}
ZYX. ABC.
{{
cite book|orig-year= 8|year= AD 8|title= ABC|author= ZYX}}
ZYX (AD 8) [8]. ABC. {{
cite book}}
: Check date values in: |year=
(
help)
This is a feature request. In lists of works by the subject of an article, eg.
Andrea Gallo#Works, I tend to use author-mask=1
so the date comes first. In works with more than one author, I wish there was a parameter for {{
cite}} which would show the date first and then list secondary authors prefixed by "with" after the date. Thank you.
Sondra.kinsey (
talk) 16:52, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
Does anyone know what is wrong with this?
{{cite book|last1=Mackie|first1=Gerry|editor1-last=Shell-Duncan|editor1-first=Bettina|editor2-last=Hernlund|editor2-first=Ylva|title=Female "Circumcision" in Africa: Culture, Controversy and Change|date=2000|publisher=Lynne Rienner Publishers|location=Boulder|chapter=Female Genital Cutting: The Beginning of the End|chapter-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20131029210333/http://www.polisci.ucsd.edu/~gmackie/documents/BeginningOfEndMackie2000.pdf|ref=harv}}
which produces two errors:
Mackie, Gerry (2000). "Female Genital Cutting: The Beginning of the End". In Shell-Duncan, Bettina; Hernlund, Ylva (eds.). Female "Circumcision" in Africa: Culture, Controversy and Change. Boulder: Lynne Rienner Publishers. {{
cite book}}
: Invalid |ref=harv
(
help); Unknown parameter |chapter-url=
ignored (
help); zero width space character in |chapter=
at position 49 (
help)
SarahSV (talk) 00:33, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
{{
cite book}}
: Invalid |ref=harv
(
help)|chapter=
parameter value, just as the error message said. Isn't that amazing?End<INVISIBLECHARACTER>|chapter-url
. You can find it by counting 49 character positions in |chapter=
. Put your cursor there, hit delete. Nothing will apparently happen, but you've deleted the invisible character.
Headbomb {
t ·
c ·
p ·
b} 00:51, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
In the wild I discovered a reference that rendered with the (PDF) annotation but the url did not point to a pdf file. Module:Citation/CS1 is confused by a url that ends '.pdf.html'.
Wikitext | {{cite web
|
---|---|
Live | "Title". |
Sandbox | "Title". |
Fixed in the sandbox.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 14:19, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
Interesting example of a (hardcopy) book (with ISBN), which is part of a book series (with ISSN) and has volume, issue and number indicators (similar to a journal). Also, it contains at least one chapter by a pair of authors completely different from those authors responsible for the remainder of the book (and listed on the front cover) and the series editor. The volume number (V) is incremented every year, the issue number (I) is incremented for each book published in that year in the series (just like in a journal, except for that the number of issues in a year seems to be variable), and the number (N) is apparently a running number counting up from the first book in that publisher's series (the publisher publishes multiple series of books). So, I need either or both the {{ cite book}} and {{ cite journal}} template to support something like this:
Issues with the current template implementation:
|chapter=
parameter. This is an artificial restriction based on the invalid assumption that there are no chapters in journal articles. Over the years, a lot of examples have been brought forward in older discussions showing that some longer journal articles do have chapters, and that it can be necessary to cite them individually. Let's fix this.|series=
or |work=
in parallel to |chapter=
.|chapter-author*=
parameters when |chapter=
is given as well. In some cases this can be worked around by abusing the |editor*=
parameters to specify the book authors but the given example even has a series editor, so the |editor*=
parameters are needed for him.|issue=
and |number=
parameters - but it should support them.|issue=
as a parameter for volume-specific numbers and |number=
for independent numbers. I suggest to render this as:|issue=
and |number=
is given.Thanks. -- Matthiaspaul ( talk) 01:39, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
An editor at kn.wiki desires to fix the cs1|2 modules there; the original post about that is here.
Some months ago I tweaked the module suite at ht.wiki so that it worked correctly and as part of that added support for simple replacement of English month names with the appropriate Haitian Creole month names. Because date support at kn.wiki will have similar problems and because I would prefer to not have multiple variations of the base code at each different wiki (if it can be avoided) I have implemented the ht.wiki tweaks in the en.wiki sandbox. These changes should make it easier for other wikis to maintain currency with the en.wiki module suite.
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live |
Title (published Christmas 2013). Fall 2013. Retrieved 15 September 2017. {{
cite book}} : Check date values in: |publication-date= (
help)
|
Sandbox |
Title (published Christmas 2013). Fall 2013. Retrieved 15 September 2017. {{
cite book}} : Check date values in: |publication-date= (
help)
|
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 11:17, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
In
Nancy Temkin I have a source whose authors are "National Research Council, Institute of Medicine, Board on Children, Youth, and Families, Committee on Sports-Related Concussions in Youth", which I have placed into the |author=
parameter. This puts the article into an inappropriate maintenance category,
Category:CS1 maint: Multiple names: authors list. It is not a multiple-name author list; it is a single institutional author name that happens to have commas in it. How do I avoid the maintenance category and the inevitable bot mangling of this name? —
David Eppstein (
talk) 17:34, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
{{citation |page=2037 |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=DBafAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA2037 |title=Sports-Related Concussions in Youth: Improving the Science, Changing the Culture |author=Institute of Medicine (IOM) and National Research Council (NRC) |location=Washington DC |publisher=National Academies Press |year=2014 |isbn=9780309288033}}
|author=Institute of Medicine
|author2=National Research Council
because they are separate entities.Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Open#OA repository links
Cheers, Ocaasi (WMF) ( talk) 23:15, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
Anywhere t establish how? Tried adding sfn template- two big lines with ref text results! CHEERS — fortuna velut luna 13:37, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
{{
sfn}}
template is on its own line (shouldn't be), I don't see what you are seeing in the current article. That makes me suspect VE (an abomination in my opinion – full disclosure here) or possibly, though unlikely, your browser. Perhaps raise this issue at
Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback.The display of |script-title=
and |title=
is partially mixed up.
What defines and therefore what should be displayed as the title of the work is always what is printed on the book or article itself (this holds true in general, even if the title is written in a foreign script). If known and necessary, it is helpful to also display transliterations and translations, however, since neither of them is without ambiguities (several transliteration systems existed and continue to exist, and translations are even more subject to interpretation) and they are therefore only weak identifiers, this is only auxiliary information, not authorative.
If only one of the two parameters is given, the {{
cite journal}} template displays them as title, which is fine. However, if both are given at the same time, the template displays the actual title (then given in |script-title=
) only as secondary information (after the transliteration in quotes) thereby creating the invalid impression that the transliterated title would be the actual title. Example:
erroneously renders as:
but should instead render as (round brackets added by me as another suggestion):
There's another (only remotely related) issue: If only a |trans-title=
is given, but neither |script-title=
nor |title=
, the template does not display a title at all. While this is not a hard error, I think it would be beneficial if the translation gets displayed anyway (in [brackets], of course), perhaps with an edit-time warning "Missing title parameter!" or similar. This would make it easier for editors to identify the actual source and retrofit the actual title.
-- Matthiaspaul ( talk) 18:16, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Trans Title]. Publisher. 2017. {{
cite book}} : |trans-title= requires |title= or |script-title= (
help)
|
Sandbox | Trans Title]. Publisher. 2017. {{
cite book}} : |trans-title= requires |title= or |script-title= (
help)
|
|script-title=
and |title=
given, wouldn't it be better if the quotes were moved to the Cyrillic title? Like in:|script-title=
the quotes should fall back to the "next-best" title representation in |title=
.{{
cite journal}}
renders titles that include |script-title=
:
{{cite journal |title=Romanized Title |script-title=Script Title |trans-title=Trans Title}}
{{
cite journal}}
: Cite journal requires |journal=
(
help); Invalid |script-title=
: missing prefix (
help){{
cite book}}
renders chapter titles that include |script-chapter=
:
See Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 33#edtf date formats as cs1|2 date parameter values. Because there is apparently no support for this 'solution', I have removed the experimental code that supported it.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 11:42, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
|date=
parameter, perhaps it should be implemented as a new parameter like |edtf-date=
or similar. --
Matthiaspaul (
talk) 00:28, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
|edtf-date=
it can find and properly evaluate |date=
else it has no business being a bot.|date=
parameter. --
Matthiaspaul (
talk) 14:26, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
edtf is now part of ISO DIS 8601 2016. Because of that, and because we may someday return to this topic, I have changed the season numbering that
Module:Citation/CS1/Date validation/sandbox uses to internally represent seasons. This change does not mean that suddenly |date=2017-23
is an acceptable numeric date that means Autumn 2017. We could do that but this change does not consider that.
This change does remove the season-order checking because there are cases like
this double issue where |date=Spring–Winter 1971
is appropriate.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 12:44, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
For {{
cite journal}} and friends, should we use |pages=2041–2043
or |pages=2041–43
? Last year,
MOS:DATERANGE determined that full years should (almost) always be used for the end of year-ranges, but
MOS:NUM is silent about the more general idea of ranges and I can't find any statement in the docs for the various citation templates about it.
DMacks (
talk) 21:30, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
Some academic journals, especially on-line ones, maintain a volume/issue numbering, but no longer assign sequential page numbers within issues. Rather, each article has a number, and its page numbers start at 1.
For example, consider
{{
cite journal}}
: Unknown parameter |class=
ignored (
help)It's volume 95, issue 8, article number 082002, pages 1 through 17. This journal actually numbers the pages 082002-1 through 082002-17, but there are others which do not. Normally, I abuse the "page number" parameter for the article number, but it becomes awkward if I'd like to cite a particular page of an article. Is there a suggested way to deal with this? (One is to take the page number out of the citation template and use {{
Rp}}
.)
104.153.72.218 (
talk) 09:38, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
{{
cite journal}}
: Unknown parameter |class=
ignored (
help){{
cite journal}}
: Unknown parameter |class=
ignored (
help)Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 12:06, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
Hey I think I found a bug that I figured I should point out. Right now the code:
{{cite journal|last1=Wang|first1=Tianqi|last2=Liang|first2=Geqiu|title=Zhōngguó tángláng mù xīn jìlù shǔ jí yī xīn zhǒng jìshù|journal=Acta Scientiarum Naturalium Universitatis Sunyatseni|date=1995|volume=34|issue=2|pages=84–86|script-title=zh:中国螳螂目新记录属及一新种记述|trans-title=New Record of ''Choeradodis'' and One New Species of Mantodea from China|url=http://en.cnki.com.cn/Article_en/CJFDTOTAL-ZSDZ502.014.htm|url-access=subscription|via=[[CNKI]]}}
produces:
Wang, Tianqi; Liang, Geqiu (1995). "Zhōngguó tángláng mù xīn jìlù shǔ jí yī xīn zhǒng jìshù" 中国螳螂目新记录属及一新种记述 [New Record of Choeradodis and One New Species of Mantodea from China]. Acta Scientiarum Naturalium Universitatis Sunyatseni. 34 (2): 84–86 – via CNKI.
Specifically the link reads:
["Zhōngguó tángláng mù xīn jìlù shǔ jí yī xīn zhǒng jìshù" <bdi lang="zh" >中国螳螂目新记录属及一新种记述]
You'll see the <bdi lang="zh" >
hanging out in the middle there.
If you remove the url-access or the script-title ISO 639-1 prefix it works, but they don't seem to like each other.
I imagine this is an easy fix so I'd bring it to people's attention. Thanks :)
Umimmak ( talk) 11:53, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
I think it's not an easy fix in the sense that a simple tweak will fix it. The problem lies in the creation of the external link. The code is at
Module:Citation/CS1/sandbox (which fixes other problems with the live module's handling of kerning). Editors whined and complained when the access signal wrapped to another line so we tried adding a non-breaking thin space between the end of the link and the access icon. The results of that experiment were disappointing; it did not work. So we opted for adding <span class="nowrap">...</span>
around the last word and the icon. The last word is separated from the other words in the label by a space character. If you look at the whole rendering (simplified from the original) you can see that the code found the last space character in the <bdi lang="zh" >
tag and inserted the <span class="nowrap">
tag there:
'"`UNIQ--templatestyles-00000052-QINU`"'<cite class="citation journal cs1 cs1-prop-script"><span class="id-lock-subscription" title="Paid subscription required">[http://en.cnki.com.cn/Article_en/CJFDTOTAL-ZSDZ502.014.htm "Zhōngguó tángláng mù xīn jìlù shǔ jí yī xīn zhǒng jìshù" <bdi lang="zh" >中国螳螂目新记录属及一新种记述</bdi>]</span>. ''Acta Scientiarum Naturalium Universitatis Sunyatseni''.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.jtitle=Acta+Scientiarum+Naturalium+Universitatis+Sunyatseni&rft.atitle=Zh%C5%8Dnggu%C3%B3+t%C3%A1ngl%C3%A1ng+m%C3%B9+x%C4%ABn+j%C3%ACl%C3%B9+sh%C7%94+j%C3%AD+y%C4%AB+x%C4%ABn+zh%C7%92ng+j%C3%ACsh%C3%B9+%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD%E8%9E%B3%E8%9E%82%E7%9B%AE%E6%96%B0%E8%AE%B0%E5%BD%95%E5%B1%9E%E5%8F%8A%E4%B8%80%E6%96%B0%E7%A7%8D%E8%AE%B0%E8%BF%B0&rft_id=http%3A%2F%2Fen.cnki.com.cn%2FArticle_en%2FCJFDTOTAL-ZSDZ502.014.htm&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1%2FArchive+37" class="Z3988"></span>
Closing that space doesn't fix the problem because the code will simply find the required space between 'bdi' and 'class'.
The solution to this particular problem is not easy for another reason: interleaving html tags is not permitted. What the code is trying to do is this:
<span class="plainlinks">[http://www.example.com "Transcribed Latin text title" <bdi lang="zh">Original language script <span class="nowrap">title</bdi><span style="padding-left:0.15em">[[File:Lock-red-alt.svg|...]]</span></span>]</span>
MediaWiki will rewrite that and put the closing </bdi>
some probably-inappropriate place (especially if |script-title=
holds a right-to-left script – Arabic, Hebrew, etc).
Were the language something other than Chinese where there were spaces between words we might do this:
<span class="plainlinks">[http://www.example.com "Transcribed Latin text title" <bdi lang="zh">Original language script</bdi> <span class="nowrap"><bdi lang="zh">title</bdi><span style="padding-left:0.15em">[[File:Lock-red-alt.svg|...]]</span></span>]</span>
Yeah, not so simple and not merely a matter of an omitted tag.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 16:21, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
<bdi>...</bdi>
tags. Because of that for most scripts, English will do here for an example, it places the <span class="nowrap">
between <bdi lang="en">
and </bdi>
:
{{cite journal/new |title=Transcription title |journal=Journal |script-title=en:A title in some other script |url=http://www.example.com |url-access=subscription}}
{{
cite journal}}
: Invalid |script-title=
: unknown language code (
help)<cite class="citation journal"><span class="plainlinks">[http://www.example.com "Transcription title" <bdi lang="en" >A title in some other <span class="nowrap">script</bdi><span style="padding-left:0.15em">[[File:Lock-red-alt.svg|9px|link=|alt=Paid subscription required|Paid subscription required]]</span></span></span>. Journal.</cite>
<span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="
http://www.example.com">"Transcription title" <bdi lang="en">A title in some other <span class="nowrap">script</span><span style="padding-left:0.15em"><img alt="Paid subscription required" src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c8/Lock-red-alt.svg/9px-Lock-red-alt.svg.png" title="Paid subscription required" width="9" height="14" srcset="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c8/Lock-red-alt.svg/14px-Lock-red-alt.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c8/Lock-red-alt.svg/18px-Lock-red-alt.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="813" /></span></bdi></a></span>
<span class="nowrap">
tag prematurely and the <bdi>...</bdi>
tags enclose not only the script title but also the lock image markup. This latter might have detrimental effects. Or not; but the markup is still wrong in part because we gave it malformed markup in the first place even though that markup had all of its closing tags.|script-title=
until a solution emerges? There is |language=
as an interim fix. (Unless that too presents a problem).
72.43.99.130 (
talk) 18:51, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
|language=
is not a 'fix' because all that it does is categorize the source as a non-English language source and render the language in the final citation.|language=
and all other parameters are there to give information to readers about the cited source. In this case, to identify a strange-looking script and provide an important detail about the original source. It is a "fix" only in that sense. The ISO option in |script-title=
is a technicality concerning browser rendering. If it breaks the display of the citation for humans. as it does in this case, it has no business there. The focus of CS1 seems hopelessly off.
72.43.99.138 (
talk) 14:16, 29 August 2017 (UTC)Because I do not have a solution to this problem and because I would like to update the live modules, I have removed support for nowrapping url access signal icons. The template at the top of this discussion will now render correctly:
Wikitext | {{cite journal
|
---|---|
Live | Wang, Tianqi; Liang, Geqiu (1995). "Zhōngguó tángláng mù xīn jìlù shǔ jí yī xīn zhǒng jìshù" 中国螳螂目新记录属及一新种记述 [New Record of Choeradodis and One New Species of Mantodea from China]. Acta Scientiarum Naturalium Universitatis Sunyatseni. 34 (2): 84–86 – via CNKI. |
Sandbox | Wang, Tianqi; Liang, Geqiu (1995). "Zhōngguó tángláng mù xīn jìlù shǔ jí yī xīn zhǒng jìshù" 中国螳螂目新记录属及一新种记述 [New Record of Choeradodis and One New Species of Mantodea from China]. Acta Scientiarum Naturalium Universitatis Sunyatseni. 34 (2): 84–86 – via CNKI. |
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 12:13, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
Dragon has a somewhat nonstandard scheme, whereas it has an issue number, a volume number, a number number, and then pages.
E.g.
Now in the wild, this is often cited as
which has the annoying tendency to put the issue number in the journal field. How do we fix this?
Three options exist, IMO
|magazine=
/|work=
/|journal=
= The Dragon / Dragon / Dragon Magazine, that we allow both |issue=
and |number=
|num-issue=yes
, letting the template know that those are distinct fields.|issue=
or |number=
, i.e. |number=3, #111
to create
What should be done? Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 20:31, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
|issue=
, with |number=
used for the number within the |volume=
, when both |number=
and |issue=
are used, but |issue=
otherwise being treated as an alias of |number=
.Failing that, I guess one can overload the current number/issue parameter: |volume=XI
|issue=3 (Summer)
. Or, to use the first Dragon example: |volume=10
|issue=10 (#107)
; it just seems a little messy and potentially confusing, even at the source level.
—
SMcCandlish ☺
☏
¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 23:14, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
User:Headbomb and I suggested a parameter for a work's Wikidata ID; there was support, but discussion has been archived. What's happening about this, please? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:50, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
|wikidata=Q21706380
.
Headbomb {
t ·
c ·
p ·
b} 22:09, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
Furthermore, that identifier can in turn be used to fetch identifiers and other metadata for the publication, the author, publisher et al.which seems contrary to the opinion expressed by Editor Headbomb and seconded by Editor J. Johnson:
We should most definitely not draw citation data from wikidata.
|doi=
or |mr=
. Could it be used to fetch stuff from Wikidata? It could, in theory. We might even decide this is desirable in the future. But for now it's simply about given a link to Wikidata, and there was no objection on that.
Headbomb {
t ·
c ·
p ·
b} 17:26, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
"As a random reader, what does it bring to me?"; just above your question, I wrote
"any reader can do so [fetch identifiers and other metadata for the publication, the author, publisher et al] once they know the Wikidata ID; either manually, or by using a tool of their own preference (e.g. this page on Scholia)". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:03, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
fetch identifiers: CS1/2 already supports loads,
the author, publisher et al: that's also easy to include in the citation template,
either manually, or by using a tool of their own preference: CS1/2 templates are already inter-operable with many tools thanks to COinS… Again I am playing the devil's advocate here, but I think people are just very likely to reject this change. We should be very careful not to foster the skepticism that already exists around Wikidata among some Wikipedia editors. Changes bringing more Wikidata integration to Wikipedia should bring real value to the community (e.g. better integration in infoboxes) instead of splashing our Wikidata ids all over the place for no apparent benefit. − Pintoch ( talk) 06:13, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
CS1/2 already supports loads, the author, publisher et al...What? cs1|2 does not support 'loading' any data from anywhere any other than the template's wikisource. What is it that you really mean?
{{
cite Q}}
a sterling exemplar of correct use of that resource. Alas, I fear that the opportunity is slipping away. {{cite Q}}
could be written to enforce best practices to ensure that the underlying data at wikidata are properly curated. Unfortunately, data deficiencies are being 'fixed' by tweaks to the template code rather than the correct fix to the data source. If {{cite Q}}
becomes recognized as a quality tool, then perhaps there is a future for wikidata in cs1|2. But, if slipshod craftsmanship of {{cite Q}}
is allowed to continue, I don't hold out much hope for wikidata in cs1|2.didn't say it would be used to fetch the metadata by the templatebut you did not say that the identifier would be a link only; you did not say that the identifier would not be used by the templates to fetch metadata from wikidata. Because this discussion is about modifying cs1|2 to support a wikidata identifier, don't you know that editors might understand your statement to mean: "once implemented, the templates will be able to fetch metadata from wikidata"? Without a statement to the contrary, why shouldn't they draw that conclusion?
"any reader can do so [fetch identifiers and other metadata for the publication, the author, publisher et al] once they know the Wikidata ID; either manually, or by using a tool of their own preference (e.g. this page on Scholia)"Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:17, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
Another reason to include Wikidata IDs is that bots can compare what's in the templates to what's on Wikidata, and alert humans to discrepancies. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:29, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
|id=
field:
{{Cite journal| doi = 10.1016/j.genhosppsych.2013.11.007| issn = 0163-8343| volume = 36| issue = 3| pages = 310–317| last1 = Dobscha| first1 = Steven K.| last2 = Denneson| first2 = Lauren M.| last3 = Kovas| first3 = Anne E.| last4 = Corson| first4 = Kathryn| last5 = Helmer| first5 = Drew A.| last6 = Bair| first6 = Matthew J.| title = Primary care clinician responses to positive suicidal ideation risk assessments in veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan| journal = General Hospital Psychiatry| accessdate = 2017-09-01| date = 2014-05-01| url = http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0163834313003447 | id={{Scholia|Q38197781}} }}
|id=
before it became natively supported, and I migrated the |id={{
citeseerx}}
to |citeseerx=
with a simple regular expression. −
Pintoch (
talk) 08:11, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
Please don't display any IDs from unreliable sites (whether Wikidata, Scholia, Quora, Findagrave, or whatever else you can come up with). Cite should be used to link to reliable sources and repositories, not user-generated or otherwise unreliable ones. Fram ( talk) 11:51, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
|wikidata=
to specify Wikidata nodes. Since these IDs don't have any established meaning outside WP's context, we would not even have to display the numbers in the citations, a small "Wikidata" icon to click on would be enough. Optionally, the ID could be displayed when hovering over the link. And using CSS it should be possible to hide the links depending on user preferences. --
Matthiaspaul (
talk) 21:15, 24 October 2017 (UTC)I am trying to understand the templates in detail, in particular, in regard to date handling.
I have set up the following pages:
In the former, I have used {{ Cite compare2}} and an invocation to the template in my user space.
I would like advice on whether I'm headed in the right direction in setting up an environment where I can test, and potentially improve, the templates. Jc3s5h ( talk) 12:25, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
the right direction, you mean to improve the current cs1|2 templates, perhaps not.
{{
cite arxiv}}
uses wikitext markup to invoke a bot to fill in citation details; {{
citation}}
uses wikitext markup for making the determination to render cs2 version of {{
cite patent}}
which both use {{
citation/core}}
but are not part of the cs1|2 suite of templates. With those exceptions, all cs1|2 templates use the module suite. A list of all of the modules used by cs1|2 is at the top of
Module:Citation/CS1. If you wish a more complete understanding of the cs1|2 templates, start there.Why is bibcode displaying before arxiv in?
{{
cite journal}}
: Cite uses deprecated parameter |authors=
(
help)Identifiers should be listed in alphabetical order. Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 13:49, 10 June 2017 (UTC)
|eissn=1365-2966
and |issn=0035-8711
from the journal's wikipedia article:
{{
cite journal}}
: Cite uses deprecated parameter |authors=
(
help)Anyone? Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 02:02, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
If anything, the doi should at the very least still link. Other improvements can wait/get more discussion, but the linking part should be easy to fix. Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 14:25, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
Can we now implement this? Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 00:27, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
Anyone? Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 02:02, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
See Module_talk:Citation/CS1/Feature requests#Suppress spurious warning about zero-width joiner.
Module:Citation/CS1 detects invisible characters and when it does, it emits an error message. Among the detected characters is zero width joiner, ZWJ (U+200D). This character should not appear in normal Latin scripts but is extensively used in Indic scripts. I have added code that mutes the error message if the parameter value containing a ZWJ character has at least one character from any of these Unicode character sets:
Conveniently, with the exception of Devanagari extended, all of the above are sequential so it is easy to write a Lua pattern for mw.ustring.find()
that will find characters in the set 0900–0D7F.
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | തിരുവിതാംകൂര് (in Malayalam). |
Sandbox | തിരുവിതാംകൂര് (in Malayalam). |
Here, Latin script with ZWJ should show an error.
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | abcxyz. {{
cite book}} : zero width joiner character in |title= at position 4 (
help)
|
Sandbox | abcxyz. {{
cite book}} : zero width joiner character in |title= at position 4 (
help)
|
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 18:21, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
I expect to update the live cs1|2 modules some time 4–5 November with these changes:
changes to Module:Citation/CS1
|chapter-url-access=
;
discussion|title=
;
discussion|vauthors=
and |veditors=
;
discussionchanges to Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration
|chapter-url-access=
;{{
bioRxiv}}
and {{
citeseerx}}
;
discussionchanges to Module:Citation/CS1/Whitelist
|chapter-url-access=
;changes to Module:Citation/CS1/Date validation
changes to Module:Citation/CS1/Identifiers
|ol=
;
discussion|jfm=
error checking;
discussion|mr=
error checking;
discussion|zbl=
error checking;
discussionchanges to Module:Citation/CS1/Utilities
is_wikilink()
in support kerning of quotes in wikilinks;changes to Module:Citation/CS1/COinS
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 12:20, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
( edit conflict) – mediawiki still fails to correctly identify edit conflicts
<cite class="citation">
which applies to all cs1|2 template renderings, includes word-wrap: break-word;
and because the locks are images and not words. This is all in the archives of this page.I'd just like to say here that I'm really happy to see the "allow wikilinks in vauthors" change. This one has been occasionally but regularly biting me. Thanks! — David Eppstein ( talk) 00:56, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
{{cite book |title=Title |last=[[Abraham Lincoln|Lincoln]] |first=[[Abraham Lincoln|Abraham]]}}
{{
cite book}}
: Check |first=
value (
help)
'"`UNIQ--templatestyles-00000091-QINU`"'<cite id="CITEREFLincoln" class="citation book cs1">[[Abraham Lincoln|Lincoln]], Abraham. ''Title''.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.aulast=Lincoln&rft.aufirst=Abraham&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1%2FArchive+37" class="Z3988"></span> <span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment"><code class="cs1-code">{{[[Template:cite book|cite book]]}}</code>: </span><span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment">Check <code class="cs1-code">|first=</code> value ([[Help:CS1 errors#bad_paramlink|help]])</span>
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 30 | ← | Archive 35 | Archive 36 | Archive 37 | Archive 38 | Archive 39 | Archive 40 |
The error "line feed character in |publisher= at position 26" is not cool. Templates are supposed to be whitespace-agnostic, and if the template can detect the presence of an LF it can also strip it out for metadata purposes. This is an impediment to copy-pasting source details. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 01:18, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
I've set up the bot request for you, at Wikipedia:Bot requests/Archive 75#Linefeed "hunter-killer". Feel free to make it more specific or whatever. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 21:27, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
It somehow escaped us to include the error handlers for the cases where {{
cite bioRxiv}}
and {{
cite citeseerx}}
are missing their respective parameters |biorxiv=
and |citeseerx=
. That oversight has been remedied in the sandbox:
Wikitext | {{cite bioRxiv
|
---|---|
Live | "Title". {{
cite bioRxiv}} : |biorxiv= required (
help)
|
Sandbox | "Title". {{
cite bioRxiv}} : |biorxiv= required (
help)
|
Wikitext | {{cite citeseerx
|
---|---|
Live | "Title". {{
cite CiteSeerX}} : |citeseerx= required (
help)
|
Sandbox | "Title". {{
cite CiteSeerX}} : |citeseerx= required (
help)
|
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 11:10, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
Can |collaboration-link=
be made, analogous to |author-link=
, etc.? Example @
K2K experiment. ~
Tom.Reding (
talk ⋅
dgaf) 14:57, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
|author-link=
is to provide a way of linking a |last=
, |first=
pair because the two cannot be wikilinked. But, |collaboration=
can be wikilinked:{{cite journal |author = M. H. Ahn |collaboration=[[K2K experiment#Collaboration|K2K Collaboration]] |date = 2006 |title = Measurement of Neutrino Oscillation by the K2K Experiment |journal = [[Physical Review D]] |volume = 74|pages = 072003 |doi = 10.1103/PhysRevD.74.072003 |id = |arxiv=hep-ex/0606032 |bibcode = 2006PhRvD..74g2003A |issue = 7 }}
I need to add the <ref></ref> myself afterwards?! — fortuna velut luna 17:19, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
{{
cite thesis}}
supports page numbers:
{{cite thesis |title=Title |pages=3–9}}
|page=
in {{
cite thesis}}. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 22:15, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
Would it be possible to get a sub-class of cite encyclopedia for citing collections that are not encyclopedias? Perhaps "cite collection"? I realize there is no technical reason for this, but the semantic context is currently being obscured and that is a Bad Thing. Maury Markowitz ( talk) 13:10, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
This seems to throw an error when using dates of Classics
{{
cite book|year= 8|title= ABC|author= ZYX}}
ZYX (8). ABC. {{
cite book}}
: Check date values in: |year=
(
help)
{{
cite book|year= 8 AD|title= ABC|author= ZYX}}
ZYX (8 AD). ABC. {{
cite book}}
: Check date values in: |year=
(
help)
{{
cite book|year= 56 CE|title= ABC|author= ZYX}}
ZYX (56 CE). ABC. {{
cite book}}
: Check date values in: |year=
(
help)
{{
cite book|year= 56|title= ABC|author= ZYX}}
ZYX (56). ABC. {{
cite book}}
: Check date values in: |year=
(
help)
{{
cite book|year= 267|title= ABC|author= ZYX}}
ZYX (267). ABC.
{{
cite book|year= 124 BCE|title= ABC|author= ZYX}}
ZYX (124 BCE). ABC. {{
cite book}}
: Check date values in: |year=
(
help)
{{
cite book|year= -56|title= ABC|author= ZYX}}
ZYX (-56). ABC. {{
cite book}}
: Check date values in: |year=
(
help)
{{
cite book|year= 3 BC|title= ABC|author= ZYX}}
ZYX (3 BC). ABC. {{
cite book}}
: Check date values in: |year=
(
help)
It appears to need a three digit absolute magnitude value or greater. This is clearly an error in the processor. -- 70.51.46.15 ( talk) 06:57, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
{{cite book|author=Ovid|title=Metamorphoses|at=II.153}}
Ovid. Metamorphoses. II.153.
|year=8 AD
is inappropriate. Cite the source that you read.|year=
values to three digits. While the technical limitation no-longer applies because of new technology, the constraint was left in and, but for the occasional case like the one in hand, there has been little call to extend date-handling support to cover all time. When the scholars of ancient texts take up their pitchforks and torches and clamber for ancient-date support in cs1|2, we can certainly consider it.{{
cite book|orig-year= 8|title= ABC|author= ZYX}}
ZYX. ABC.
{{
cite book|orig-year= 8|year= AD 8|title= ABC|author= ZYX}}
ZYX (AD 8) [8]. ABC. {{
cite book}}
: Check date values in: |year=
(
help)
This is a feature request. In lists of works by the subject of an article, eg.
Andrea Gallo#Works, I tend to use author-mask=1
so the date comes first. In works with more than one author, I wish there was a parameter for {{
cite}} which would show the date first and then list secondary authors prefixed by "with" after the date. Thank you.
Sondra.kinsey (
talk) 16:52, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
Does anyone know what is wrong with this?
{{cite book|last1=Mackie|first1=Gerry|editor1-last=Shell-Duncan|editor1-first=Bettina|editor2-last=Hernlund|editor2-first=Ylva|title=Female "Circumcision" in Africa: Culture, Controversy and Change|date=2000|publisher=Lynne Rienner Publishers|location=Boulder|chapter=Female Genital Cutting: The Beginning of the End|chapter-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20131029210333/http://www.polisci.ucsd.edu/~gmackie/documents/BeginningOfEndMackie2000.pdf|ref=harv}}
which produces two errors:
Mackie, Gerry (2000). "Female Genital Cutting: The Beginning of the End". In Shell-Duncan, Bettina; Hernlund, Ylva (eds.). Female "Circumcision" in Africa: Culture, Controversy and Change. Boulder: Lynne Rienner Publishers. {{
cite book}}
: Invalid |ref=harv
(
help); Unknown parameter |chapter-url=
ignored (
help); zero width space character in |chapter=
at position 49 (
help)
SarahSV (talk) 00:33, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
{{
cite book}}
: Invalid |ref=harv
(
help)|chapter=
parameter value, just as the error message said. Isn't that amazing?End<INVISIBLECHARACTER>|chapter-url
. You can find it by counting 49 character positions in |chapter=
. Put your cursor there, hit delete. Nothing will apparently happen, but you've deleted the invisible character.
Headbomb {
t ·
c ·
p ·
b} 00:51, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
In the wild I discovered a reference that rendered with the (PDF) annotation but the url did not point to a pdf file. Module:Citation/CS1 is confused by a url that ends '.pdf.html'.
Wikitext | {{cite web
|
---|---|
Live | "Title". |
Sandbox | "Title". |
Fixed in the sandbox.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 14:19, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
Interesting example of a (hardcopy) book (with ISBN), which is part of a book series (with ISSN) and has volume, issue and number indicators (similar to a journal). Also, it contains at least one chapter by a pair of authors completely different from those authors responsible for the remainder of the book (and listed on the front cover) and the series editor. The volume number (V) is incremented every year, the issue number (I) is incremented for each book published in that year in the series (just like in a journal, except for that the number of issues in a year seems to be variable), and the number (N) is apparently a running number counting up from the first book in that publisher's series (the publisher publishes multiple series of books). So, I need either or both the {{ cite book}} and {{ cite journal}} template to support something like this:
Issues with the current template implementation:
|chapter=
parameter. This is an artificial restriction based on the invalid assumption that there are no chapters in journal articles. Over the years, a lot of examples have been brought forward in older discussions showing that some longer journal articles do have chapters, and that it can be necessary to cite them individually. Let's fix this.|series=
or |work=
in parallel to |chapter=
.|chapter-author*=
parameters when |chapter=
is given as well. In some cases this can be worked around by abusing the |editor*=
parameters to specify the book authors but the given example even has a series editor, so the |editor*=
parameters are needed for him.|issue=
and |number=
parameters - but it should support them.|issue=
as a parameter for volume-specific numbers and |number=
for independent numbers. I suggest to render this as:|issue=
and |number=
is given.Thanks. -- Matthiaspaul ( talk) 01:39, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
An editor at kn.wiki desires to fix the cs1|2 modules there; the original post about that is here.
Some months ago I tweaked the module suite at ht.wiki so that it worked correctly and as part of that added support for simple replacement of English month names with the appropriate Haitian Creole month names. Because date support at kn.wiki will have similar problems and because I would prefer to not have multiple variations of the base code at each different wiki (if it can be avoided) I have implemented the ht.wiki tweaks in the en.wiki sandbox. These changes should make it easier for other wikis to maintain currency with the en.wiki module suite.
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live |
Title (published Christmas 2013). Fall 2013. Retrieved 15 September 2017. {{
cite book}} : Check date values in: |publication-date= (
help)
|
Sandbox |
Title (published Christmas 2013). Fall 2013. Retrieved 15 September 2017. {{
cite book}} : Check date values in: |publication-date= (
help)
|
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 11:17, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
In
Nancy Temkin I have a source whose authors are "National Research Council, Institute of Medicine, Board on Children, Youth, and Families, Committee on Sports-Related Concussions in Youth", which I have placed into the |author=
parameter. This puts the article into an inappropriate maintenance category,
Category:CS1 maint: Multiple names: authors list. It is not a multiple-name author list; it is a single institutional author name that happens to have commas in it. How do I avoid the maintenance category and the inevitable bot mangling of this name? —
David Eppstein (
talk) 17:34, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
{{citation |page=2037 |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=DBafAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA2037 |title=Sports-Related Concussions in Youth: Improving the Science, Changing the Culture |author=Institute of Medicine (IOM) and National Research Council (NRC) |location=Washington DC |publisher=National Academies Press |year=2014 |isbn=9780309288033}}
|author=Institute of Medicine
|author2=National Research Council
because they are separate entities.Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Open#OA repository links
Cheers, Ocaasi (WMF) ( talk) 23:15, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
Anywhere t establish how? Tried adding sfn template- two big lines with ref text results! CHEERS — fortuna velut luna 13:37, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
{{
sfn}}
template is on its own line (shouldn't be), I don't see what you are seeing in the current article. That makes me suspect VE (an abomination in my opinion – full disclosure here) or possibly, though unlikely, your browser. Perhaps raise this issue at
Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback.The display of |script-title=
and |title=
is partially mixed up.
What defines and therefore what should be displayed as the title of the work is always what is printed on the book or article itself (this holds true in general, even if the title is written in a foreign script). If known and necessary, it is helpful to also display transliterations and translations, however, since neither of them is without ambiguities (several transliteration systems existed and continue to exist, and translations are even more subject to interpretation) and they are therefore only weak identifiers, this is only auxiliary information, not authorative.
If only one of the two parameters is given, the {{
cite journal}} template displays them as title, which is fine. However, if both are given at the same time, the template displays the actual title (then given in |script-title=
) only as secondary information (after the transliteration in quotes) thereby creating the invalid impression that the transliterated title would be the actual title. Example:
erroneously renders as:
but should instead render as (round brackets added by me as another suggestion):
There's another (only remotely related) issue: If only a |trans-title=
is given, but neither |script-title=
nor |title=
, the template does not display a title at all. While this is not a hard error, I think it would be beneficial if the translation gets displayed anyway (in [brackets], of course), perhaps with an edit-time warning "Missing title parameter!" or similar. This would make it easier for editors to identify the actual source and retrofit the actual title.
-- Matthiaspaul ( talk) 18:16, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Trans Title]. Publisher. 2017. {{
cite book}} : |trans-title= requires |title= or |script-title= (
help)
|
Sandbox | Trans Title]. Publisher. 2017. {{
cite book}} : |trans-title= requires |title= or |script-title= (
help)
|
|script-title=
and |title=
given, wouldn't it be better if the quotes were moved to the Cyrillic title? Like in:|script-title=
the quotes should fall back to the "next-best" title representation in |title=
.{{
cite journal}}
renders titles that include |script-title=
:
{{cite journal |title=Romanized Title |script-title=Script Title |trans-title=Trans Title}}
{{
cite journal}}
: Cite journal requires |journal=
(
help); Invalid |script-title=
: missing prefix (
help){{
cite book}}
renders chapter titles that include |script-chapter=
:
See Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 33#edtf date formats as cs1|2 date parameter values. Because there is apparently no support for this 'solution', I have removed the experimental code that supported it.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 11:42, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
|date=
parameter, perhaps it should be implemented as a new parameter like |edtf-date=
or similar. --
Matthiaspaul (
talk) 00:28, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
|edtf-date=
it can find and properly evaluate |date=
else it has no business being a bot.|date=
parameter. --
Matthiaspaul (
talk) 14:26, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
edtf is now part of ISO DIS 8601 2016. Because of that, and because we may someday return to this topic, I have changed the season numbering that
Module:Citation/CS1/Date validation/sandbox uses to internally represent seasons. This change does not mean that suddenly |date=2017-23
is an acceptable numeric date that means Autumn 2017. We could do that but this change does not consider that.
This change does remove the season-order checking because there are cases like
this double issue where |date=Spring–Winter 1971
is appropriate.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 12:44, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
For {{
cite journal}} and friends, should we use |pages=2041–2043
or |pages=2041–43
? Last year,
MOS:DATERANGE determined that full years should (almost) always be used for the end of year-ranges, but
MOS:NUM is silent about the more general idea of ranges and I can't find any statement in the docs for the various citation templates about it.
DMacks (
talk) 21:30, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
Some academic journals, especially on-line ones, maintain a volume/issue numbering, but no longer assign sequential page numbers within issues. Rather, each article has a number, and its page numbers start at 1.
For example, consider
{{
cite journal}}
: Unknown parameter |class=
ignored (
help)It's volume 95, issue 8, article number 082002, pages 1 through 17. This journal actually numbers the pages 082002-1 through 082002-17, but there are others which do not. Normally, I abuse the "page number" parameter for the article number, but it becomes awkward if I'd like to cite a particular page of an article. Is there a suggested way to deal with this? (One is to take the page number out of the citation template and use {{
Rp}}
.)
104.153.72.218 (
talk) 09:38, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
{{
cite journal}}
: Unknown parameter |class=
ignored (
help){{
cite journal}}
: Unknown parameter |class=
ignored (
help)Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 12:06, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
Hey I think I found a bug that I figured I should point out. Right now the code:
{{cite journal|last1=Wang|first1=Tianqi|last2=Liang|first2=Geqiu|title=Zhōngguó tángláng mù xīn jìlù shǔ jí yī xīn zhǒng jìshù|journal=Acta Scientiarum Naturalium Universitatis Sunyatseni|date=1995|volume=34|issue=2|pages=84–86|script-title=zh:中国螳螂目新记录属及一新种记述|trans-title=New Record of ''Choeradodis'' and One New Species of Mantodea from China|url=http://en.cnki.com.cn/Article_en/CJFDTOTAL-ZSDZ502.014.htm|url-access=subscription|via=[[CNKI]]}}
produces:
Wang, Tianqi; Liang, Geqiu (1995). "Zhōngguó tángláng mù xīn jìlù shǔ jí yī xīn zhǒng jìshù" 中国螳螂目新记录属及一新种记述 [New Record of Choeradodis and One New Species of Mantodea from China]. Acta Scientiarum Naturalium Universitatis Sunyatseni. 34 (2): 84–86 – via CNKI.
Specifically the link reads:
["Zhōngguó tángláng mù xīn jìlù shǔ jí yī xīn zhǒng jìshù" <bdi lang="zh" >中国螳螂目新记录属及一新种记述]
You'll see the <bdi lang="zh" >
hanging out in the middle there.
If you remove the url-access or the script-title ISO 639-1 prefix it works, but they don't seem to like each other.
I imagine this is an easy fix so I'd bring it to people's attention. Thanks :)
Umimmak ( talk) 11:53, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
I think it's not an easy fix in the sense that a simple tweak will fix it. The problem lies in the creation of the external link. The code is at
Module:Citation/CS1/sandbox (which fixes other problems with the live module's handling of kerning). Editors whined and complained when the access signal wrapped to another line so we tried adding a non-breaking thin space between the end of the link and the access icon. The results of that experiment were disappointing; it did not work. So we opted for adding <span class="nowrap">...</span>
around the last word and the icon. The last word is separated from the other words in the label by a space character. If you look at the whole rendering (simplified from the original) you can see that the code found the last space character in the <bdi lang="zh" >
tag and inserted the <span class="nowrap">
tag there:
'"`UNIQ--templatestyles-00000052-QINU`"'<cite class="citation journal cs1 cs1-prop-script"><span class="id-lock-subscription" title="Paid subscription required">[http://en.cnki.com.cn/Article_en/CJFDTOTAL-ZSDZ502.014.htm "Zhōngguó tángláng mù xīn jìlù shǔ jí yī xīn zhǒng jìshù" <bdi lang="zh" >中国螳螂目新记录属及一新种记述</bdi>]</span>. ''Acta Scientiarum Naturalium Universitatis Sunyatseni''.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.jtitle=Acta+Scientiarum+Naturalium+Universitatis+Sunyatseni&rft.atitle=Zh%C5%8Dnggu%C3%B3+t%C3%A1ngl%C3%A1ng+m%C3%B9+x%C4%ABn+j%C3%ACl%C3%B9+sh%C7%94+j%C3%AD+y%C4%AB+x%C4%ABn+zh%C7%92ng+j%C3%ACsh%C3%B9+%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD%E8%9E%B3%E8%9E%82%E7%9B%AE%E6%96%B0%E8%AE%B0%E5%BD%95%E5%B1%9E%E5%8F%8A%E4%B8%80%E6%96%B0%E7%A7%8D%E8%AE%B0%E8%BF%B0&rft_id=http%3A%2F%2Fen.cnki.com.cn%2FArticle_en%2FCJFDTOTAL-ZSDZ502.014.htm&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1%2FArchive+37" class="Z3988"></span>
Closing that space doesn't fix the problem because the code will simply find the required space between 'bdi' and 'class'.
The solution to this particular problem is not easy for another reason: interleaving html tags is not permitted. What the code is trying to do is this:
<span class="plainlinks">[http://www.example.com "Transcribed Latin text title" <bdi lang="zh">Original language script <span class="nowrap">title</bdi><span style="padding-left:0.15em">[[File:Lock-red-alt.svg|...]]</span></span>]</span>
MediaWiki will rewrite that and put the closing </bdi>
some probably-inappropriate place (especially if |script-title=
holds a right-to-left script – Arabic, Hebrew, etc).
Were the language something other than Chinese where there were spaces between words we might do this:
<span class="plainlinks">[http://www.example.com "Transcribed Latin text title" <bdi lang="zh">Original language script</bdi> <span class="nowrap"><bdi lang="zh">title</bdi><span style="padding-left:0.15em">[[File:Lock-red-alt.svg|...]]</span></span>]</span>
Yeah, not so simple and not merely a matter of an omitted tag.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 16:21, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
<bdi>...</bdi>
tags. Because of that for most scripts, English will do here for an example, it places the <span class="nowrap">
between <bdi lang="en">
and </bdi>
:
{{cite journal/new |title=Transcription title |journal=Journal |script-title=en:A title in some other script |url=http://www.example.com |url-access=subscription}}
{{
cite journal}}
: Invalid |script-title=
: unknown language code (
help)<cite class="citation journal"><span class="plainlinks">[http://www.example.com "Transcription title" <bdi lang="en" >A title in some other <span class="nowrap">script</bdi><span style="padding-left:0.15em">[[File:Lock-red-alt.svg|9px|link=|alt=Paid subscription required|Paid subscription required]]</span></span></span>. Journal.</cite>
<span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="
http://www.example.com">"Transcription title" <bdi lang="en">A title in some other <span class="nowrap">script</span><span style="padding-left:0.15em"><img alt="Paid subscription required" src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c8/Lock-red-alt.svg/9px-Lock-red-alt.svg.png" title="Paid subscription required" width="9" height="14" srcset="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c8/Lock-red-alt.svg/14px-Lock-red-alt.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c8/Lock-red-alt.svg/18px-Lock-red-alt.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="813" /></span></bdi></a></span>
<span class="nowrap">
tag prematurely and the <bdi>...</bdi>
tags enclose not only the script title but also the lock image markup. This latter might have detrimental effects. Or not; but the markup is still wrong in part because we gave it malformed markup in the first place even though that markup had all of its closing tags.|script-title=
until a solution emerges? There is |language=
as an interim fix. (Unless that too presents a problem).
72.43.99.130 (
talk) 18:51, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
|language=
is not a 'fix' because all that it does is categorize the source as a non-English language source and render the language in the final citation.|language=
and all other parameters are there to give information to readers about the cited source. In this case, to identify a strange-looking script and provide an important detail about the original source. It is a "fix" only in that sense. The ISO option in |script-title=
is a technicality concerning browser rendering. If it breaks the display of the citation for humans. as it does in this case, it has no business there. The focus of CS1 seems hopelessly off.
72.43.99.138 (
talk) 14:16, 29 August 2017 (UTC)Because I do not have a solution to this problem and because I would like to update the live modules, I have removed support for nowrapping url access signal icons. The template at the top of this discussion will now render correctly:
Wikitext | {{cite journal
|
---|---|
Live | Wang, Tianqi; Liang, Geqiu (1995). "Zhōngguó tángláng mù xīn jìlù shǔ jí yī xīn zhǒng jìshù" 中国螳螂目新记录属及一新种记述 [New Record of Choeradodis and One New Species of Mantodea from China]. Acta Scientiarum Naturalium Universitatis Sunyatseni. 34 (2): 84–86 – via CNKI. |
Sandbox | Wang, Tianqi; Liang, Geqiu (1995). "Zhōngguó tángláng mù xīn jìlù shǔ jí yī xīn zhǒng jìshù" 中国螳螂目新记录属及一新种记述 [New Record of Choeradodis and One New Species of Mantodea from China]. Acta Scientiarum Naturalium Universitatis Sunyatseni. 34 (2): 84–86 – via CNKI. |
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 12:13, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
Dragon has a somewhat nonstandard scheme, whereas it has an issue number, a volume number, a number number, and then pages.
E.g.
Now in the wild, this is often cited as
which has the annoying tendency to put the issue number in the journal field. How do we fix this?
Three options exist, IMO
|magazine=
/|work=
/|journal=
= The Dragon / Dragon / Dragon Magazine, that we allow both |issue=
and |number=
|num-issue=yes
, letting the template know that those are distinct fields.|issue=
or |number=
, i.e. |number=3, #111
to create
What should be done? Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 20:31, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
|issue=
, with |number=
used for the number within the |volume=
, when both |number=
and |issue=
are used, but |issue=
otherwise being treated as an alias of |number=
.Failing that, I guess one can overload the current number/issue parameter: |volume=XI
|issue=3 (Summer)
. Or, to use the first Dragon example: |volume=10
|issue=10 (#107)
; it just seems a little messy and potentially confusing, even at the source level.
—
SMcCandlish ☺
☏
¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 23:14, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
User:Headbomb and I suggested a parameter for a work's Wikidata ID; there was support, but discussion has been archived. What's happening about this, please? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:50, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
|wikidata=Q21706380
.
Headbomb {
t ·
c ·
p ·
b} 22:09, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
Furthermore, that identifier can in turn be used to fetch identifiers and other metadata for the publication, the author, publisher et al.which seems contrary to the opinion expressed by Editor Headbomb and seconded by Editor J. Johnson:
We should most definitely not draw citation data from wikidata.
|doi=
or |mr=
. Could it be used to fetch stuff from Wikidata? It could, in theory. We might even decide this is desirable in the future. But for now it's simply about given a link to Wikidata, and there was no objection on that.
Headbomb {
t ·
c ·
p ·
b} 17:26, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
"As a random reader, what does it bring to me?"; just above your question, I wrote
"any reader can do so [fetch identifiers and other metadata for the publication, the author, publisher et al] once they know the Wikidata ID; either manually, or by using a tool of their own preference (e.g. this page on Scholia)". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:03, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
fetch identifiers: CS1/2 already supports loads,
the author, publisher et al: that's also easy to include in the citation template,
either manually, or by using a tool of their own preference: CS1/2 templates are already inter-operable with many tools thanks to COinS… Again I am playing the devil's advocate here, but I think people are just very likely to reject this change. We should be very careful not to foster the skepticism that already exists around Wikidata among some Wikipedia editors. Changes bringing more Wikidata integration to Wikipedia should bring real value to the community (e.g. better integration in infoboxes) instead of splashing our Wikidata ids all over the place for no apparent benefit. − Pintoch ( talk) 06:13, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
CS1/2 already supports loads, the author, publisher et al...What? cs1|2 does not support 'loading' any data from anywhere any other than the template's wikisource. What is it that you really mean?
{{
cite Q}}
a sterling exemplar of correct use of that resource. Alas, I fear that the opportunity is slipping away. {{cite Q}}
could be written to enforce best practices to ensure that the underlying data at wikidata are properly curated. Unfortunately, data deficiencies are being 'fixed' by tweaks to the template code rather than the correct fix to the data source. If {{cite Q}}
becomes recognized as a quality tool, then perhaps there is a future for wikidata in cs1|2. But, if slipshod craftsmanship of {{cite Q}}
is allowed to continue, I don't hold out much hope for wikidata in cs1|2.didn't say it would be used to fetch the metadata by the templatebut you did not say that the identifier would be a link only; you did not say that the identifier would not be used by the templates to fetch metadata from wikidata. Because this discussion is about modifying cs1|2 to support a wikidata identifier, don't you know that editors might understand your statement to mean: "once implemented, the templates will be able to fetch metadata from wikidata"? Without a statement to the contrary, why shouldn't they draw that conclusion?
"any reader can do so [fetch identifiers and other metadata for the publication, the author, publisher et al] once they know the Wikidata ID; either manually, or by using a tool of their own preference (e.g. this page on Scholia)"Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:17, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
Another reason to include Wikidata IDs is that bots can compare what's in the templates to what's on Wikidata, and alert humans to discrepancies. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:29, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
|id=
field:
{{Cite journal| doi = 10.1016/j.genhosppsych.2013.11.007| issn = 0163-8343| volume = 36| issue = 3| pages = 310–317| last1 = Dobscha| first1 = Steven K.| last2 = Denneson| first2 = Lauren M.| last3 = Kovas| first3 = Anne E.| last4 = Corson| first4 = Kathryn| last5 = Helmer| first5 = Drew A.| last6 = Bair| first6 = Matthew J.| title = Primary care clinician responses to positive suicidal ideation risk assessments in veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan| journal = General Hospital Psychiatry| accessdate = 2017-09-01| date = 2014-05-01| url = http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0163834313003447 | id={{Scholia|Q38197781}} }}
|id=
before it became natively supported, and I migrated the |id={{
citeseerx}}
to |citeseerx=
with a simple regular expression. −
Pintoch (
talk) 08:11, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
Please don't display any IDs from unreliable sites (whether Wikidata, Scholia, Quora, Findagrave, or whatever else you can come up with). Cite should be used to link to reliable sources and repositories, not user-generated or otherwise unreliable ones. Fram ( talk) 11:51, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
|wikidata=
to specify Wikidata nodes. Since these IDs don't have any established meaning outside WP's context, we would not even have to display the numbers in the citations, a small "Wikidata" icon to click on would be enough. Optionally, the ID could be displayed when hovering over the link. And using CSS it should be possible to hide the links depending on user preferences. --
Matthiaspaul (
talk) 21:15, 24 October 2017 (UTC)I am trying to understand the templates in detail, in particular, in regard to date handling.
I have set up the following pages:
In the former, I have used {{ Cite compare2}} and an invocation to the template in my user space.
I would like advice on whether I'm headed in the right direction in setting up an environment where I can test, and potentially improve, the templates. Jc3s5h ( talk) 12:25, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
the right direction, you mean to improve the current cs1|2 templates, perhaps not.
{{
cite arxiv}}
uses wikitext markup to invoke a bot to fill in citation details; {{
citation}}
uses wikitext markup for making the determination to render cs2 version of {{
cite patent}}
which both use {{
citation/core}}
but are not part of the cs1|2 suite of templates. With those exceptions, all cs1|2 templates use the module suite. A list of all of the modules used by cs1|2 is at the top of
Module:Citation/CS1. If you wish a more complete understanding of the cs1|2 templates, start there.Why is bibcode displaying before arxiv in?
{{
cite journal}}
: Cite uses deprecated parameter |authors=
(
help)Identifiers should be listed in alphabetical order. Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 13:49, 10 June 2017 (UTC)
|eissn=1365-2966
and |issn=0035-8711
from the journal's wikipedia article:
{{
cite journal}}
: Cite uses deprecated parameter |authors=
(
help)Anyone? Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 02:02, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
If anything, the doi should at the very least still link. Other improvements can wait/get more discussion, but the linking part should be easy to fix. Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 14:25, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
Can we now implement this? Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 00:27, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
Anyone? Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 02:02, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
See Module_talk:Citation/CS1/Feature requests#Suppress spurious warning about zero-width joiner.
Module:Citation/CS1 detects invisible characters and when it does, it emits an error message. Among the detected characters is zero width joiner, ZWJ (U+200D). This character should not appear in normal Latin scripts but is extensively used in Indic scripts. I have added code that mutes the error message if the parameter value containing a ZWJ character has at least one character from any of these Unicode character sets:
Conveniently, with the exception of Devanagari extended, all of the above are sequential so it is easy to write a Lua pattern for mw.ustring.find()
that will find characters in the set 0900–0D7F.
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | തിരുവിതാംകൂര് (in Malayalam). |
Sandbox | തിരുവിതാംകൂര് (in Malayalam). |
Here, Latin script with ZWJ should show an error.
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | abcxyz. {{
cite book}} : zero width joiner character in |title= at position 4 (
help)
|
Sandbox | abcxyz. {{
cite book}} : zero width joiner character in |title= at position 4 (
help)
|
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 18:21, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
I expect to update the live cs1|2 modules some time 4–5 November with these changes:
changes to Module:Citation/CS1
|chapter-url-access=
;
discussion|title=
;
discussion|vauthors=
and |veditors=
;
discussionchanges to Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration
|chapter-url-access=
;{{
bioRxiv}}
and {{
citeseerx}}
;
discussionchanges to Module:Citation/CS1/Whitelist
|chapter-url-access=
;changes to Module:Citation/CS1/Date validation
changes to Module:Citation/CS1/Identifiers
|ol=
;
discussion|jfm=
error checking;
discussion|mr=
error checking;
discussion|zbl=
error checking;
discussionchanges to Module:Citation/CS1/Utilities
is_wikilink()
in support kerning of quotes in wikilinks;changes to Module:Citation/CS1/COinS
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 12:20, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
( edit conflict) – mediawiki still fails to correctly identify edit conflicts
<cite class="citation">
which applies to all cs1|2 template renderings, includes word-wrap: break-word;
and because the locks are images and not words. This is all in the archives of this page.I'd just like to say here that I'm really happy to see the "allow wikilinks in vauthors" change. This one has been occasionally but regularly biting me. Thanks! — David Eppstein ( talk) 00:56, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
{{cite book |title=Title |last=[[Abraham Lincoln|Lincoln]] |first=[[Abraham Lincoln|Abraham]]}}
{{
cite book}}
: Check |first=
value (
help)
'"`UNIQ--templatestyles-00000091-QINU`"'<cite id="CITEREFLincoln" class="citation book cs1">[[Abraham Lincoln|Lincoln]], Abraham. ''Title''.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.aulast=Lincoln&rft.aufirst=Abraham&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1%2FArchive+37" class="Z3988"></span> <span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment"><code class="cs1-code">{{[[Template:cite book|cite book]]}}</code>: </span><span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment">Check <code class="cs1-code">|first=</code> value ([[Help:CS1 errors#bad_paramlink|help]])</span>