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Archive 15 | ← | Archive 18 | Archive 19 | Archive 20 | Archive 21 | Archive 22 | → | Archive 25 |
I propose to update the live modules on the weekend of 4–5 June 2016. The changes are:
|script-title=
langauage-code table to
Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration;
discussionCITEREF
bug fix;
discussion|script-title=
language-code table from Module:Citation/CS1— Trappist the monk ( talk) 19:34, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
The bibcode check possibly needs to be updated to handle cases like Bibcode: 1953QB901.W495...... Specifically, tests for characters 6-9 according to Help:CS1_errors#Check_.7Cbibcode.3D_.3Cmessage.3E. Headbomb { talk / contribs / physics / books} 16:02, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
This insource search finds digits in position 7 but none are found in position 6.
I've made a subsection of this topic.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 17:13, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
Headbomb { talk / contribs / physics / books} 17:57, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
The following bibcode is apparently correct but is being rejected: Bibcode: 1971GCVS3.C......0K Lithopsian ( talk) 19:42, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
I've cleaned the whole category (~roughly 300 pages since this morning). The remaining incidences, as of writing, are where the validation code needs to be update to recognize legit cases. Headbomb { talk / contribs / physics / books} 23:04, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
Wikitext | {{cite journal
|
---|---|
Live | "Title". Journal. Bibcode: 1971GCVS3.C......0K. |
Sandbox | "Title". Journal. Bibcode: 1971GCVS3.C......0K. |
Wikitext | {{cite journal
|
---|---|
Live | "Title". Journal. Bibcode: 2008hsf2.book..235P. |
Sandbox | "Title". Journal. Bibcode: 2008hsf2.book..235P. |
Wikitext | {{cite journal
|
---|---|
Live | "Title". Journal. Bibcode: 1953QB901.W495..... |
Sandbox | "Title". Journal. Bibcode: 1953QB901.W495..... |
I'm getting a "check bibcode" error for the valid bibcode "Bibcode:1992JPhy1...2.2221N":
{{
cite journal}}
: Invalid |ref=harv
(
help)Is this fixed in the sandbox or an ongoing problem? — David Eppstein ( talk) 18:38, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
/new
for example: {{cite journal/new}}
(caveat: this testing functionality is not safe for use in article space).Would it be possible to port this bibcode validation to {{ Bibcode}} and CS2 templates? Headbomb { talk / contribs / physics / books} 00:00, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
{{citation |title=Title |bibcode=1953QB901.W495..... |journal=Journal}}
{{
bibcode}}
I asked this question elsewhere, and was directed here. I created an article on Amy Bess Miller fairly recently, and that article includes her bibliography. However, there is another work currently not listed to which Miller contributed. The Shaker Image Second and Annotated Edition includes annotations by Magda Gabor-Hotchkiss, with captions written by Amy Bess Miller and John Harlow Ott. How would I credit this in a bibliography? For the introduction that Miller wrote for the fascimile reprint of The gardener's manual, I just used the "cite book" template and entered "Introduction" into the chapter parameter. But this type of thing I don't think would work in this case. So what would be the solution?-- 3family6 ( Talk to me | See what I have done) 21:42, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
{{Cite book |title=The Shaker Image Second and Annotated Edition |last=Pearson |first=Elmer R. |first2=Julia |last2=Neal |contributor-last=Miller |contributor-first=Amy Bess |contributor-mask=2 |contribution=Captions |publisher=Hancock Shaker Village |date=1995}}
Recently a couple of articles turned up in
Category:CS1 errors: Vancouver style that were sort of like the examples below. Each had a corporate name; one had a comma-separated list of department names associated with NIH and the other included something in parentheses (both have been 'fixed' by someone else so I can't use them as examples here). The first one failed because, as a first step, the module separates the |vauthors=
name-list at the commas separating the names. For corporate names, the module expects the name to be wrapped in matching doubled parentheses. For |vauthors=White AB, Brown CD, ((Alpha, Bravo, Charlie))
the result after parsing was:
|last1=White
|first1=AB
|last2=Brown
|first2=CD
|last3=((Alpha
– these doubled parentheses are made part of the metadata|last4=Bravo
|last5=Charlie))
– these doubled parentheses are made part of the metadataThis is fixed in the sandbox:
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | White AB, Brown CD, Alpha, Bravo, Charlie. Title. |
Sandbox | White AB, Brown CD, Alpha, Bravo, Charlie. Title. |
'"`UNIQ--templatestyles-00000023-QINU`"'<cite id="CITEREFWhiteBrownAlpha,_Bravo,_Charlie" class="citation book cs1">White AB, Brown CD, Alpha, Bravo, Charlie. ''Title''.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.aulast=White&rft.aufirst=AB&rft.au=Brown%2C+CD&rft.au=Alpha%2C+Bravo%2C+Charlie&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1%2FArchive+20" class="Z3988"></span>
In the other case, the parenthetical part of the corporate name caused an error because the single parentheses are not allowed in Vancouver names. But, corporate names are not Vancouver names so the module should not have been doing that test. This too, has been fixed in the sandbox:
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | White AB, Brown CD, Alpha Bravo Charlie (ABC). Title. |
Sandbox | White AB, Brown CD, Alpha Bravo Charlie (ABC). Title. |
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 22:57, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
I didn't see this in the archives, so please point me in the right direction if this has been answered. Is there a logic behind the default parameter order at {{ cite web}}, {{ cite news}}, etc.? Is it local consensus? I try to put the parameters in the order in which they display, personally, and I know that their order is not standardized on the whole (and I am not suggesting that it should), but in terms of the default shown, I was wondering about the logic. czar 04:31, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
{{cite book |last=Smith |first=Fred |author=Joe Public |title=Our book of facts }}
would be an error. --
Redrose64 (
talk) 08:09, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
{{cite ... |last=...
. Doing that can make life easier for follow-on editors.|last=
comes first in the list. The only exception to this is where there is no author (corporate authorship or lookup to specialised databases such as listed buildings) when the publisher or listing organisation needs to be first.
Martin of Sheffield (
talk) 21:37, 24 June 2016 (UTC)Recently, one bot user and admin at the same time on sr.wiki wanted even to block me as I insisted on "my" parameter order that I consider logical (it is, for example, {{cite book |url= |title= |language= |last1= |first1= |last2= |first2= |publisher= |isbn= |lccn= |volume= |issue= |pages= |date= |accessdate= |quote= |archiveurl= |archivedate= |deadurl=}}
). Stated reason was something like "bot unifies citation templates so |pages=
has to be at the end [nonsense], near }}
" etc. This could work if the bot user placed it at the end and then move it back on the initial position; but the second does not happen...
Can editor frame or whatever (e.g. after saving the wiki code) automatically reorder all parameters to some default order, and to make them like |parameter1=content |parameter2=content
style; equally spaced, with parameter name and content right next to the = sign [no spaces] so it is clear on all Wikipedias that one format is used and such conflicts generally don't happen?
I wonder also something else: Is parameter order important for Lua time/memory usage? I think of some scanning-and-checking-like process [if it even exists, I do not understand the exact process of forming and displaying a single citation/reference] that goes slower/faster when taking into account order of some functions in Lua modules and order of parameters in some citation template.-- Obsuser ( talk) 18:12, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
I have tweaked the sandbox so that templates that use either of |authors=
or |editors=
(the plural versions only). Use of these parameters is discouraged because they don't contribute to the citation's metadata (actually no 'editor' parameter contributes but all of the 'author' parameters do except |authors=
).
For the time being, the aliases of |authors=
(|people=
, |host=
, |credits=
) are excluded from categorization because those parameters tend to bring with them additional baggage (|people=Jo Bloe (Director), Somebody Else (Producer) ...
) which we should think about as a separate topic.
{{cite book/new |title=Title |authors=AB Black, CD Brown, EF White}}
{{cite book/new |title=Title |people=AB Black, CD Brown, EF White}}
{{cite book/new |title=Title |editors=AB Black, CD Brown, EF White}}
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 20:03, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
|editors=
and |editor=
. Is that right? If so, when people start to modify articles that are showing this message, and then other editors complain, what is the rationale to support the first modification (from editors= to editorn=)? I'm really just asking; I have no dog in this fight, but I suspect that there will be a fight, because people on WP love to fight about minutiae like this. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 16:27, 28 June 2016 (UTC)|editor=
family of parameters (and, more recently, |translator=
) populated the metadata. I support including them in the metadata. ~
Tom.Reding (
talk ⋅
dgaf) 17:00, 28 June 2016 (UTC)|editors=
for the sake of consistency. If we prefer the use of multiple |authorn=
and |lastn=
/ |firstn=
parameters over the use of a single |authors=
parameter then, for the sake of consistent documentation and usage, we should have the same preference for |editorn=
and |editor-lastn=
/ |editor-firstn=
over |editors=
, shouldn't we? It was for this reason that we did not create |translators=
and |contributors=
.This text or similar that points to the archived version (either on word "Archived" or "original", depending on the |deadurl=
value) sometimes is not true because archive version must not have identical URL at the end as the original URL (i.e. word "original" in "... from the original..." is not always applicable).
Example is when website changes design and url format so page is still available in similar form but has different URL (and possibly some content is missing/extra). Then the most information is preserved if user changes parameter |url=
so it is not broken anymore and adds |archiveurl=
, |archivedate=
and |deadurl=no
with old archived URL (if he/she does not have time to / does not want to check source in the original URL whether it is still a valid Wikipedia reference or not, or does not want to archive that new URL etc.).
I think other form for this text can be figured out so implication that we are talking about "real original" does not exist but functionality is still preserved. However, I don't have any ideas for better formulation. Raw example (notice where are particular URLs):
{{cite web |url=http://au.gamespot.com/news/take-two-has-extensive-pipeline-of-unannounced-titles-in-development-6404968 |title=Take-Two has 'extensive pipeline' of unannounced titles in development |last=Makuch |first=Eddie |publisher=GameSpot |date=7 March 2013 |accessdate=7 April 2013}}
→{{cite web |url=http://www.gamespot.com/articles/take-two-has-extensive-pipeline-of-unannounced-titles-in-development/1100-6404968/ |title=Take-Two has 'extensive pipeline' of unannounced titles in development |last=Makuch |first=Eddie |publisher=GameSpot |date=7 March 2013 |accessdate=7 April 2013 |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20130511035649/http://au.gamespot.com/news/take-two-has-extensive-pipeline-of-unannounced-titles-in-development-6404968 |archivedate=11 May 2013 |deadurl=no}}
→{{
cite web}}
: Unknown parameter |deadurl=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (
help)There might be other examples too when "original" does not fit but cannot remember now... -- Obsuser ( talk) 09:23, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
It won't show in the comparison below but note the quote marks used in |title=UrFU scientist was awarded the title “Professor of the Russian Academy of Sciences”
. When the template has typewriter single and double quote marks, the module adds kerning to separate them from quote marks that it adds as part of title formatting. It doesn't understand “”
and ‘’
. But the sandbox now does:
Wikitext | {{cite web
|
---|---|
Live | "UrFU scientist was awarded the title "Professor of the Russian Academy of Sciences"". |
Sandbox | "UrFU scientist was awarded the title "Professor of the Russian Academy of Sciences"". |
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 16:45, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
|title=
in {{
cite web}}
, |chapter=
in {{
cite book}}
, the module calls kern_quotes()
. The first thing that the function does is replace any and all occurrences of “”
and ‘’
with "
and '
. It then does it's usual kerning with those characters if necessary. So, even if kerning is not necessary, there are no typographer's quotes in the output:
{{cite book/new |chapter=Don’t do this |title=Things we shouldn't do}}
There is a discussion at
WP:VPT that may change how
Module:Citation/CS1 handles malformed Internet Archive |archive-url=
values. Currently, when these values are malformed, the module renders the citation without a link to the archive but with an error message. When the page is rendered in preview mode, the module modifies the malformed archive url so that it links to what should be the most relevant calendar directory. To know if the page is being rendered in preview mode, the module looks at the value of {{REVISIONID}}
(has no value in preview mode). Apparently this is a bad thing.
In the current live module, {{REVISIONID}}
is queried for every cs1|2 template regardless of need. As an experiment, I've tweaked the sandbox so that the magic word is only queried when |archive-url=
has a malformed IA url:
Incomplete without '*':
{{cite web/new |title=harri deutsch electronic science (hades) |url=http://www.harri-deutsch.de/ |dead-url=yes |archive-url=http://web.archive.org/web/2013103022541/http://www.harri-deutsch.de/ |archive-date=2013-10-30}}
{{
cite web}}
: |archive-url=
is malformed: timestamp (
help); Unknown parameter |dead-url=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (
help)Save command:
{{cite web/new |title=example |url=http://example.com/ |archive-url=http://web.archive.org/save/http://example.com/ |archive-date=2013-10-30}}
It remains to be seen whether this change shall be kept
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 15:05, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
waves of page saves effected by the vary-revision flag in the site logsmeans.
What happens if a module that needs to know about preview mode got the value of REVISIONID passed to it in the {{#invoke:Module|function|{{REVISIONID}}}}
? Is this still 'bad'?
patch proposing a magic word to expose preview mode? What does 'exposing preview mode' actually mean? What is the magic word? What does it return? When can I expect to have it available to me?
I've tweaked the sandbox so that the magic word is only queried when |archive-url=
has a malformed IA url
archive_url_check()
. Because this is the only place where we want to know if we're in preview, the change I made works as you can see if you preview this discussion.
@
Trappist the monk:, any chance you could merge this change to the canonical module? We're eager to see the impact on page save perf. --
Ori Livneh (
talk) 23:24, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
I was just editing an article where one of the citations required (free) registration to read, so I looked at the {{cite web}} template and found there was a "|registration=yes" parameter, so I added that. However, it renders so poorly and confusingly for readers -- "(registration required (help))." with the help tooltip giving "Sources are not required to be available online. Online sources do not have to be freely available. The site may require registration." -- that I reverted my change and just added "(Registration required.)" at the end of the <ref> manually.
First off, the "r" in "registration" should be capitalized if there's a period at the end, and the period should go inside the parentheses, not outside. Secondly, "Sources are not required to be available online. Online sources do not have to be freely available." must be very confusing to the average reader. I don't think it's helpful to the average reader to obliquely define Wikipedia reference inclusion policy in the help for what the tag means. Finally, why the weasel words in "may be required"? The parameter says "registration=yes", and it renders as "registration required" -- the "may be" has no business being there.
Points 1 and 3 seem objective enough that I would go ahead and edit the template myself now, but I don't seem to have the rights to edit that particular template.
"|subscription=yes" rendering may have parallel problems; I didn't check. -- Dan Harkless ( talk) 09:15, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
|registration=
and |subscription=
is in
Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration/sandbox.I've tested the df parameter in the cite web template. The use of that parameter is described in the documentation for that template. However, that parameter isn't included in the TemplateData, which means that using the parameter in VE requires ignoring an "unknown field" comment by VE. Once added, it does work as documented, however. Would someone add df parameters to TemplateData descriptions for all citation templates that allow this, so the "unknown field" comment by VE goes away? -- John Broughton (♫♫) 23:23, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
|df=
to test something else
on the Beta Cluster, and there's a display bug. It produced ( 7 July 2008)
, with an extraneous leading space. Please feel free to {{
ping}} me if you need any further information from me.
Whatamidoing (WMF) (
talk) 16:22, 30 June 2016 (UTC)Fixed, I think.
Wikitext | {{cite news
|
---|---|
Live | Ablan, Jennifer (8 July 2007). "Wikipedia page the latest status symbol". Reuters. Retrieved November 22, 2008. |
Sandbox | Ablan, Jennifer (8 July 2007). "Wikipedia page the latest status symbol". Reuters. Retrieved November 22, 2008. |
The conversion uses os.date()
with a format string '%e %B %Y'
. The %e
format returns the day-of-month-number with a leading space if the day is 1–9. There isn't a format string to return just the number regardless of the number of digits so I tweaked the code to look for and remove any leading space characters.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 17:19, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
There are editors (or at least one that I know of: Tisquesusa) who insist on small caps formatting of author names in references. The argument is that the ability to customize appearance of names is important, and that a technical solution should be found to enable it (i.e. a form of |author-mask= functionality). It would be helpful to discuss whether the current recommendation is to be upheld, or perhaps there is a way to accommodate this request. -- Dcirovic ( talk) 22:42, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
|author=
, per
the Manual of Style, which says "Avoid writing with all capitals, including small caps, when they have only a stylistic function."{{
aut}}
plainly wrong. That template has about
12k page uses; {{
small caps}}
has a mere 70 page uses. According to
this insource: search, there are less than 25 pages using {{
aut}}
in |author=
; I found none in a similar search using |last=
or |lastn=
.I'm in the process of cleaning out
Category:CS1 maint: Date and year and have found several templates like this one where |year=
holds more date detail than just the year:
{{Cite news| url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/5207045/Intertek-shares-soar-on-speculation-of-bid-from-Swiss-rival-SGS.html|title=Intertek shares soar on speculation of bid from Swiss rival SGS|accessdate=30 August 2010|publisher=The Telegraph| year=23 Apr 2009 | location=London | first=Louise | last=Armitstead | date=23 April 2009}}
{{
cite book}}
: Check date values in: |year=
(
help)CS1 maint: date and year (
link)It seems to me that |year=
should hold just that, a year with optional circa and/or optional CITEREF
disambiguator.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 12:55, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
Looking further at this, a 'solution' is problematic. Before we do the date validation, we look at the values of |date=
, |year=
, and |publication-date=
. If |date=
is not set, we promote the first set of |year=
or |publication-date=
to |date=
. So, when |date=
is not set and |year=23 Apr 2009
, we make |date=23 Apr 2009
and |year=
becomes nil. Because '23 Apr 2009' is a valid date, and no longer associated with |year=
, there is no detectable error.
'Fixed' in the sandbox:
{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: date and year (
link){{
cite book}}
: Check date values in: |year=
(
help)CS1 maint: date and year (
link)— Trappist the monk ( talk) 10:45, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
If|date=
is not set, we promote the first set of|year=
or|publication-date=
to|date=
.
|year=
or |publication-date=
to |date=
? Or does the value of these parameters become the cited date instead?Currently, the invocation of {{
cite journal}}
in citoid and VE's insert template function, doesn't, by default, include the fields of "Volume" and "Issue". I am guessing for the vast majority (academic journal and popular magazine runs) of the uses of this template, having those fields is crucial to identifying the correct issue within the print run of the work. Can someone who is familiar with
TemplateData make these default fields? It seems silly to have new editors know they need to add this field, instead of spoon feeding the option to them. Thanks much,
Sadads (
talk) 15:29, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
|volume=
is left blank, then ve uses the value set in the TemplateData 'default' field. The 'suggested' as opposed to 'optional' setting would seem to be what it is that you want.{{
cite journal}}
TemplateData, go to
Template:Cite_journal#TemplateData and edit that section. You will see a button at the top that reads 'Manage TemplateData'. Click that and you are in the TemplateData editor.{{
cite journal}}
for popular magazines, but {{
cite magazine}}
- it also has |volume=
and |issue=
, but they are displayed differently. --
Redrose64 (
talk) 17:08, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
The Los Angeles Times has some kind of weird paywall thing going on. For example, this article displays for me with no problem, but this one tells me I've reached my monthly limit and need to cough up some cash if I want to read it.
Well never mind that weirdness, that's secondary. Let's say they treated all articles the same, giving you x free views per month. There is no way to know whether a particular reader has reached their monthly limit, so should cites for that site use |subscription=y
? It's a "subscription might be required, depending" situation. ―
Mandruss
☎ 09:43, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
|subscription=limited
which in turn might tell the module to emit a message like (Subscription may be required) or (Limited free access).Addressing issues raised at
Adding open access links to references caused me to wonder about applying a similar mechanism to |subscription=
and |registration=
. For example, for this case: |subscription=yes
, the module might render a citation
{{cite news |title=Article title |url=//example.com |newspaper=World-wide Times Gazette |subscription=yes}}
Unlike the open access icons, this one is linked to explanatory text.
For |registration=yes
, use the same lock icon but in a different color? For the 'limited free access' case contemplated in this discussion, perhaps a gray colored version of the open access lock?
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 15:10, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
I have been thinking about this topic because of the discussion at Help talk:Citation Style 1#adding free-to-read icons. If cs1|2 is to replace text with icons, then those icons, it seems to me, should all have the same base shape. Because of the small size, detail visible at larger sizes will be lost. Along with that, we can't use color as the sole indicator of meaning because, those who are color blind won't notice the color difference except that perhaps the icon is a slightly different shade of gray. The meaning then, must be distinguishable by its shape. Here are four icons that I think could be used:
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 09:20, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
{{
pp}}
to show page protection. Not necessarily the same images, but mimicking that shape. I think a darker color would make it more apparent that the second lock is open, but I couldn't find such an image. That
Open Access logo is stylized and I don't think intended to closely resemble a padlock. Likewise, the Apple logo
is more about distinctive branding than apple recognition. It's meant to convey
Apple, not
apple. ―
Mandruss
☎ 03:32, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
Hello,
Maybe I'm missing something but I found that the cite web template (from here and citar web from portuguese wikipedia) doesn't offer a "permalink" parameter?! Most of time a website URL is different from the content URL (the "permalink"), how we inform this:
The portuguese version of "cite web" template is currently broken on several pages that has an URL on "publisher" and other parameters (eg [1], [2] and thousand others articles). How we can fix those citation without removing the very website URL or the permalink? It seems lame that cite web/citar web doesn't provide a permalink parameter. Thanks for any clarification. Dianakc ( talk) 17:23, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
|url=
is all that is required and that url links in |work=
and |publisher=
(and all of their aliases) are unnecessary and perhaps harmful (for a list of aliases, see 'Periodical' and 'PublisherName'
here). The values assigned to |work=
and |publisher=
may be used in the citation's metadata where the metadata format expects titles or title-like text. For example, the publisher metadata from this {{citar web}}
at
pt:Begonia annulata:
{{Citar web | url=http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-361149|título=''{{subst:PAGENAME}}''|acessodata=17/8/2014|autor=|data= 2010|formato= |publicado= [http://www.theplantlist.org The Plant List]|páginas=|língua=inglês|citação=}}
&rft.pub=%5Bhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.theplantlist.org+The+Plant+List%5D
&rft.pub=The+Plant+List
|título=''{{subst:PAGENAME}}''
isn't doing what it is that you want it to do. This is not a fault of the template but is a long-standing problem with MediaWiki. {{subst:}}
does not work in <ref>...</ref>
tags.|url=
holds a URL that points to a specific web page. Nor do I understand how you are
not really sure on how this template can be useful, the rendering is not user friendly since it can't differ the website URL from the content permalink.Someone must have found it useful because at en.wiki it is used on 2.2+million pages and there is this at the top of the
{{citar web}}
documentation page:
What is generated COinS for |publisher=[[The New York Times]]
? I've seen editors often link publisher, newspapers etc. so [[ and ]] might be problem too if modules don't do delinking.
Btw, (maybe wrong place to ask for {{
para}} but not important too much for starting discussion on template's talk page) I've just noticed that {{para|publisher|[[The New York Times]]}}
gives |publisher=
The New York Times
, why not |publisher=[[The New York Times]]
i.e. why not to nowiki parameter content?--
Obsuser (
talk) 02:46, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
|publisher=The New York Times
|publisher=[[The New York Times]]
|publisher=<nowiki>[[The New York Times]]</nowiki>
|newspaper=The New York Times
and if you want to be pedantically complete, add |publisher=Arthur Ochs Sulzberger Jr.
as well (but I don't see the point in that unless the news item was libellous, in which case it is Sulzberger who would be served with the legal papers). --
Redrose64 (
talk) 08:39, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
Somehow neither my familiarity with these templates nor the documentation is helping me figure out how to cite these two citations using the templates in a way that generates correct metadata and avoids error messages.
First, from Monterey Road (California), we have the citation
I would like to format it as
but that doesn't work:
{{
cite magazine}}
: Missing or empty |title=
(
help)Abusing |author=
instead of |publisher=
is a little better, but still no good.
It gets the text formatted the way I want, but puts the url in a bad place and complains about the missing or empty title. I also tried setting |title=none
to no avail.
Possibly the magazine piece has an actual title, but the Google books snippet view (sufficient for verifying the fact claimed to that source) is inadequate to locate it.
In any case, we should be capable of formatting non-titled magazine information. (This article actually uses CS2 and {{
citation}} but the behavior is the same.)
The second one is an external link from Erdős–Gyárfás conjecture:
{{
cite web}}
: External link in |work=
(
help)There seems to be no way to include a link both on the |title=
and |work=
without a complaint from the template. Changing |title=
to |contribution=
and |url=
to |contribution-url=
, in order to free up |title=
and |url=
for the second link, also doesn't work; the template just ignores the url.
These sorts of inflexibilities are driving me away from using the citation templates. I can only imagine how much stronger the same effect is likely to be on new users. — David Eppstein ( talk) 20:23, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
template markup removed from section heading. here's the link {{ Cite web}}— Trappist the monk ( talk) 10:18, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
Hey.
I tried inserting this:
{{cite web |url=http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/Vol.05/05.05/Hourglass/index.html |title=Lisa's Hourglass Is Back! |work=[[MacTech]] |publisher=Xplain |volume=5 |issue=5 |first=Mike |last=Morton |location=[[Waipahu, HI]]}}
It gave me this:
As you can see, the |issue=
, |volume=
and are ignored without an error message saying they are unknown parameters. (Doc pages says they are supported.) I could swear this is new. I had seen these parameters working before.
|location=
FleetCommand ( Speak your mind!) 07:09, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
|location=
is working again.
FleetCommand (
Speak your mind!) 07:13, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
{{
cite journal}}
:
{{cite journal |url=http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/Vol.05/05.05/Hourglass/index.html |title=Lisa's Hourglass Is Back! |work=[[MacTech]] |publisher=Xplain |volume=5 |issue=5 |first=Mike |last=Morton |location=[[Waipahu, HI]]}}
{{
Cite magazine}}
, unless you consider that in the class of "academic and scientific papers and journals". Per {{
Cite journal}}
. ―
Mandruss
☎ 15:36, 12 July 2016 (UTC){{
cite web}}
is not broken. In November 2015 we adjusted how
Module:Citation/CS1 supports |volume=
, |issue=
, |page(s)=
. See the
discussion.|FooBarParam=FUBAR
to it.) And why the documentation didn't get an update?In November 2015 we adjusted how Module:Citation/CS1 supportsand I did point to the discussion that preceded the change. So, yeah, I did|volume=
,|issue=
,|page(s)=
prevent {{ Cite web}} from displaying them.
{{
cite arxiv}}
which has a very limited set of parameters it supports and certain cases of |chapter=
aliases (see
Category:CS1 errors: chapter ignored).|volume=
or |issue=
except in the COinS boilerplate. Because that template's documentation is itself a template, it's hard to know if {{cite web}}
ever supported |volume=
and |issue=
. Certainly, it does not now and the documentation reflects that.Further to Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 18#Multiple authors, and User talk:Dcirovic/Archive 1#Authors, it appears that Dcirovic ( talk · contribs) has resumed their behaviour. I have left a note at User talk:Dcirovic#Authors, again. -- Redrose64 ( talk) 14:37, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
Hello. How do I cite "consulting editors" for this book in Zev Garber's article please? Someone added the book without using the citation template, but I'd like to cite it properly and include the OCLC. Thank you. Zigzig20s ( talk) 21:40, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
|others=
. See the documentation for {{
cite book}}. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 22:30, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
See
this version of
Carmen, which fails to render the editor "Neef, Sigrid" when |editor-link=de:Sigrid Need
is present. Omitting the de:
unsatisfactorily solves this problem.
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Neef, Sigrid, ed. (2000). Opera: Composers, Works, Performers (English ed.). Cologne: Könemann.
ISBN
3-8290-3571-3. {{
cite book}} : Check |editor-link= value (
help)
|
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Neef, Sigrid (2000). Opera: Composers, Works, Performers (English ed.). Cologne: Könemann.
ISBN
3-8290-3571-3. {{
cite book}} : Check |author-link= value (
help)
|
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Neef, Sigrid, ed. (2000). Opera: Composers, Works, Performers (English ed.). Cologne: Könemann. ISBN 3-8290-3571-3. |
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Neef, Sigrid (2000). Opera: Composers, Works, Performers (English ed.). Cologne: Könemann. ISBN 3-8290-3571-3. |
~ Tom.Reding ( talk ⋅ dgaf) 18:07, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
What's doubly weird is that the editor is rendered here in the {{ cite compare2}} calls above, but not in my sandbox... ~ Tom.Reding ( talk ⋅ dgaf) 18:08, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
Perhaps this isn't a problem with cs1|2 but a problem with the mark-up. Remember the old days when interlanguage links were added to the article? Then we moved them all to wikidata so we've forgotten that those old interlanguage links had the form: [[de:Sigrid Neef]]
(and it is Neef). Those constructs added the link to the languages menus at left but were not visible in the article.
In those days, and still today, if you want a visible interlanguage link in an article, the format is: [[:de:Sigrid Neef]]
. Right? See
Help:Interlanguage_links.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 22:39, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
[[:Category:
, [[:File:
, etc; wonderful. I hadn't connected the syntaxes for some reason... ~
Tom.Reding (
talk ⋅
dgaf) 01:53, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Neef, Sigrid, ed. (2000). Opera: Composers, Works, Performers (English ed.). Cologne: Könemann.
ISBN
3-8290-3571-3. {{
cite book}} : Check |editor-link= value (
help)
|
Sandbox | Neef, Sigrid, ed. (2000). Opera: Composers, Works, Performers (English ed.). Cologne: Könemann.
ISBN
3-8290-3571-3. {{
cite book}} : Check |editor-link= value (
help)
|
{{ cite compare}} |
de:
with de:
didn't change anything. ~
Tom.Reding (
talk ⋅
dgaf) 12:41, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
[[:de:Sigrid Need]]
produces an inline link to the foreign-language page. In talk namespaces only, [[de:Sigrid Need]]
produces an inline link to the foreign-language page, but in non-talk namespaces, [[de:Sigrid Need]]
produces nothing inline, instead it adds a link to the "languages" list in the left sidebar. --
Redrose64 (
talk) 21:03, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
|author-link=
or |editor-link=
. ~
Tom.Reding (
talk ⋅
dgaf) 22:45, 15 July 2016 (UTC)This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 15 | ← | Archive 18 | Archive 19 | Archive 20 | Archive 21 | Archive 22 | → | Archive 25 |
I propose to update the live modules on the weekend of 4–5 June 2016. The changes are:
|script-title=
langauage-code table to
Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration;
discussionCITEREF
bug fix;
discussion|script-title=
language-code table from Module:Citation/CS1— Trappist the monk ( talk) 19:34, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
The bibcode check possibly needs to be updated to handle cases like Bibcode: 1953QB901.W495...... Specifically, tests for characters 6-9 according to Help:CS1_errors#Check_.7Cbibcode.3D_.3Cmessage.3E. Headbomb { talk / contribs / physics / books} 16:02, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
This insource search finds digits in position 7 but none are found in position 6.
I've made a subsection of this topic.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 17:13, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
Headbomb { talk / contribs / physics / books} 17:57, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
The following bibcode is apparently correct but is being rejected: Bibcode: 1971GCVS3.C......0K Lithopsian ( talk) 19:42, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
I've cleaned the whole category (~roughly 300 pages since this morning). The remaining incidences, as of writing, are where the validation code needs to be update to recognize legit cases. Headbomb { talk / contribs / physics / books} 23:04, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
Wikitext | {{cite journal
|
---|---|
Live | "Title". Journal. Bibcode: 1971GCVS3.C......0K. |
Sandbox | "Title". Journal. Bibcode: 1971GCVS3.C......0K. |
Wikitext | {{cite journal
|
---|---|
Live | "Title". Journal. Bibcode: 2008hsf2.book..235P. |
Sandbox | "Title". Journal. Bibcode: 2008hsf2.book..235P. |
Wikitext | {{cite journal
|
---|---|
Live | "Title". Journal. Bibcode: 1953QB901.W495..... |
Sandbox | "Title". Journal. Bibcode: 1953QB901.W495..... |
I'm getting a "check bibcode" error for the valid bibcode "Bibcode:1992JPhy1...2.2221N":
{{
cite journal}}
: Invalid |ref=harv
(
help)Is this fixed in the sandbox or an ongoing problem? — David Eppstein ( talk) 18:38, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
/new
for example: {{cite journal/new}}
(caveat: this testing functionality is not safe for use in article space).Would it be possible to port this bibcode validation to {{ Bibcode}} and CS2 templates? Headbomb { talk / contribs / physics / books} 00:00, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
{{citation |title=Title |bibcode=1953QB901.W495..... |journal=Journal}}
{{
bibcode}}
I asked this question elsewhere, and was directed here. I created an article on Amy Bess Miller fairly recently, and that article includes her bibliography. However, there is another work currently not listed to which Miller contributed. The Shaker Image Second and Annotated Edition includes annotations by Magda Gabor-Hotchkiss, with captions written by Amy Bess Miller and John Harlow Ott. How would I credit this in a bibliography? For the introduction that Miller wrote for the fascimile reprint of The gardener's manual, I just used the "cite book" template and entered "Introduction" into the chapter parameter. But this type of thing I don't think would work in this case. So what would be the solution?-- 3family6 ( Talk to me | See what I have done) 21:42, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
{{Cite book |title=The Shaker Image Second and Annotated Edition |last=Pearson |first=Elmer R. |first2=Julia |last2=Neal |contributor-last=Miller |contributor-first=Amy Bess |contributor-mask=2 |contribution=Captions |publisher=Hancock Shaker Village |date=1995}}
Recently a couple of articles turned up in
Category:CS1 errors: Vancouver style that were sort of like the examples below. Each had a corporate name; one had a comma-separated list of department names associated with NIH and the other included something in parentheses (both have been 'fixed' by someone else so I can't use them as examples here). The first one failed because, as a first step, the module separates the |vauthors=
name-list at the commas separating the names. For corporate names, the module expects the name to be wrapped in matching doubled parentheses. For |vauthors=White AB, Brown CD, ((Alpha, Bravo, Charlie))
the result after parsing was:
|last1=White
|first1=AB
|last2=Brown
|first2=CD
|last3=((Alpha
– these doubled parentheses are made part of the metadata|last4=Bravo
|last5=Charlie))
– these doubled parentheses are made part of the metadataThis is fixed in the sandbox:
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | White AB, Brown CD, Alpha, Bravo, Charlie. Title. |
Sandbox | White AB, Brown CD, Alpha, Bravo, Charlie. Title. |
'"`UNIQ--templatestyles-00000023-QINU`"'<cite id="CITEREFWhiteBrownAlpha,_Bravo,_Charlie" class="citation book cs1">White AB, Brown CD, Alpha, Bravo, Charlie. ''Title''.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.aulast=White&rft.aufirst=AB&rft.au=Brown%2C+CD&rft.au=Alpha%2C+Bravo%2C+Charlie&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1%2FArchive+20" class="Z3988"></span>
In the other case, the parenthetical part of the corporate name caused an error because the single parentheses are not allowed in Vancouver names. But, corporate names are not Vancouver names so the module should not have been doing that test. This too, has been fixed in the sandbox:
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | White AB, Brown CD, Alpha Bravo Charlie (ABC). Title. |
Sandbox | White AB, Brown CD, Alpha Bravo Charlie (ABC). Title. |
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 22:57, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
I didn't see this in the archives, so please point me in the right direction if this has been answered. Is there a logic behind the default parameter order at {{ cite web}}, {{ cite news}}, etc.? Is it local consensus? I try to put the parameters in the order in which they display, personally, and I know that their order is not standardized on the whole (and I am not suggesting that it should), but in terms of the default shown, I was wondering about the logic. czar 04:31, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
{{cite book |last=Smith |first=Fred |author=Joe Public |title=Our book of facts }}
would be an error. --
Redrose64 (
talk) 08:09, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
{{cite ... |last=...
. Doing that can make life easier for follow-on editors.|last=
comes first in the list. The only exception to this is where there is no author (corporate authorship or lookup to specialised databases such as listed buildings) when the publisher or listing organisation needs to be first.
Martin of Sheffield (
talk) 21:37, 24 June 2016 (UTC)Recently, one bot user and admin at the same time on sr.wiki wanted even to block me as I insisted on "my" parameter order that I consider logical (it is, for example, {{cite book |url= |title= |language= |last1= |first1= |last2= |first2= |publisher= |isbn= |lccn= |volume= |issue= |pages= |date= |accessdate= |quote= |archiveurl= |archivedate= |deadurl=}}
). Stated reason was something like "bot unifies citation templates so |pages=
has to be at the end [nonsense], near }}
" etc. This could work if the bot user placed it at the end and then move it back on the initial position; but the second does not happen...
Can editor frame or whatever (e.g. after saving the wiki code) automatically reorder all parameters to some default order, and to make them like |parameter1=content |parameter2=content
style; equally spaced, with parameter name and content right next to the = sign [no spaces] so it is clear on all Wikipedias that one format is used and such conflicts generally don't happen?
I wonder also something else: Is parameter order important for Lua time/memory usage? I think of some scanning-and-checking-like process [if it even exists, I do not understand the exact process of forming and displaying a single citation/reference] that goes slower/faster when taking into account order of some functions in Lua modules and order of parameters in some citation template.-- Obsuser ( talk) 18:12, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
I have tweaked the sandbox so that templates that use either of |authors=
or |editors=
(the plural versions only). Use of these parameters is discouraged because they don't contribute to the citation's metadata (actually no 'editor' parameter contributes but all of the 'author' parameters do except |authors=
).
For the time being, the aliases of |authors=
(|people=
, |host=
, |credits=
) are excluded from categorization because those parameters tend to bring with them additional baggage (|people=Jo Bloe (Director), Somebody Else (Producer) ...
) which we should think about as a separate topic.
{{cite book/new |title=Title |authors=AB Black, CD Brown, EF White}}
{{cite book/new |title=Title |people=AB Black, CD Brown, EF White}}
{{cite book/new |title=Title |editors=AB Black, CD Brown, EF White}}
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 20:03, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
|editors=
and |editor=
. Is that right? If so, when people start to modify articles that are showing this message, and then other editors complain, what is the rationale to support the first modification (from editors= to editorn=)? I'm really just asking; I have no dog in this fight, but I suspect that there will be a fight, because people on WP love to fight about minutiae like this. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 16:27, 28 June 2016 (UTC)|editor=
family of parameters (and, more recently, |translator=
) populated the metadata. I support including them in the metadata. ~
Tom.Reding (
talk ⋅
dgaf) 17:00, 28 June 2016 (UTC)|editors=
for the sake of consistency. If we prefer the use of multiple |authorn=
and |lastn=
/ |firstn=
parameters over the use of a single |authors=
parameter then, for the sake of consistent documentation and usage, we should have the same preference for |editorn=
and |editor-lastn=
/ |editor-firstn=
over |editors=
, shouldn't we? It was for this reason that we did not create |translators=
and |contributors=
.This text or similar that points to the archived version (either on word "Archived" or "original", depending on the |deadurl=
value) sometimes is not true because archive version must not have identical URL at the end as the original URL (i.e. word "original" in "... from the original..." is not always applicable).
Example is when website changes design and url format so page is still available in similar form but has different URL (and possibly some content is missing/extra). Then the most information is preserved if user changes parameter |url=
so it is not broken anymore and adds |archiveurl=
, |archivedate=
and |deadurl=no
with old archived URL (if he/she does not have time to / does not want to check source in the original URL whether it is still a valid Wikipedia reference or not, or does not want to archive that new URL etc.).
I think other form for this text can be figured out so implication that we are talking about "real original" does not exist but functionality is still preserved. However, I don't have any ideas for better formulation. Raw example (notice where are particular URLs):
{{cite web |url=http://au.gamespot.com/news/take-two-has-extensive-pipeline-of-unannounced-titles-in-development-6404968 |title=Take-Two has 'extensive pipeline' of unannounced titles in development |last=Makuch |first=Eddie |publisher=GameSpot |date=7 March 2013 |accessdate=7 April 2013}}
→{{cite web |url=http://www.gamespot.com/articles/take-two-has-extensive-pipeline-of-unannounced-titles-in-development/1100-6404968/ |title=Take-Two has 'extensive pipeline' of unannounced titles in development |last=Makuch |first=Eddie |publisher=GameSpot |date=7 March 2013 |accessdate=7 April 2013 |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20130511035649/http://au.gamespot.com/news/take-two-has-extensive-pipeline-of-unannounced-titles-in-development-6404968 |archivedate=11 May 2013 |deadurl=no}}
→{{
cite web}}
: Unknown parameter |deadurl=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (
help)There might be other examples too when "original" does not fit but cannot remember now... -- Obsuser ( talk) 09:23, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
It won't show in the comparison below but note the quote marks used in |title=UrFU scientist was awarded the title “Professor of the Russian Academy of Sciences”
. When the template has typewriter single and double quote marks, the module adds kerning to separate them from quote marks that it adds as part of title formatting. It doesn't understand “”
and ‘’
. But the sandbox now does:
Wikitext | {{cite web
|
---|---|
Live | "UrFU scientist was awarded the title "Professor of the Russian Academy of Sciences"". |
Sandbox | "UrFU scientist was awarded the title "Professor of the Russian Academy of Sciences"". |
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 16:45, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
|title=
in {{
cite web}}
, |chapter=
in {{
cite book}}
, the module calls kern_quotes()
. The first thing that the function does is replace any and all occurrences of “”
and ‘’
with "
and '
. It then does it's usual kerning with those characters if necessary. So, even if kerning is not necessary, there are no typographer's quotes in the output:
{{cite book/new |chapter=Don’t do this |title=Things we shouldn't do}}
There is a discussion at
WP:VPT that may change how
Module:Citation/CS1 handles malformed Internet Archive |archive-url=
values. Currently, when these values are malformed, the module renders the citation without a link to the archive but with an error message. When the page is rendered in preview mode, the module modifies the malformed archive url so that it links to what should be the most relevant calendar directory. To know if the page is being rendered in preview mode, the module looks at the value of {{REVISIONID}}
(has no value in preview mode). Apparently this is a bad thing.
In the current live module, {{REVISIONID}}
is queried for every cs1|2 template regardless of need. As an experiment, I've tweaked the sandbox so that the magic word is only queried when |archive-url=
has a malformed IA url:
Incomplete without '*':
{{cite web/new |title=harri deutsch electronic science (hades) |url=http://www.harri-deutsch.de/ |dead-url=yes |archive-url=http://web.archive.org/web/2013103022541/http://www.harri-deutsch.de/ |archive-date=2013-10-30}}
{{
cite web}}
: |archive-url=
is malformed: timestamp (
help); Unknown parameter |dead-url=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (
help)Save command:
{{cite web/new |title=example |url=http://example.com/ |archive-url=http://web.archive.org/save/http://example.com/ |archive-date=2013-10-30}}
It remains to be seen whether this change shall be kept
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 15:05, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
waves of page saves effected by the vary-revision flag in the site logsmeans.
What happens if a module that needs to know about preview mode got the value of REVISIONID passed to it in the {{#invoke:Module|function|{{REVISIONID}}}}
? Is this still 'bad'?
patch proposing a magic word to expose preview mode? What does 'exposing preview mode' actually mean? What is the magic word? What does it return? When can I expect to have it available to me?
I've tweaked the sandbox so that the magic word is only queried when |archive-url=
has a malformed IA url
archive_url_check()
. Because this is the only place where we want to know if we're in preview, the change I made works as you can see if you preview this discussion.
@
Trappist the monk:, any chance you could merge this change to the canonical module? We're eager to see the impact on page save perf. --
Ori Livneh (
talk) 23:24, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
I was just editing an article where one of the citations required (free) registration to read, so I looked at the {{cite web}} template and found there was a "|registration=yes" parameter, so I added that. However, it renders so poorly and confusingly for readers -- "(registration required (help))." with the help tooltip giving "Sources are not required to be available online. Online sources do not have to be freely available. The site may require registration." -- that I reverted my change and just added "(Registration required.)" at the end of the <ref> manually.
First off, the "r" in "registration" should be capitalized if there's a period at the end, and the period should go inside the parentheses, not outside. Secondly, "Sources are not required to be available online. Online sources do not have to be freely available." must be very confusing to the average reader. I don't think it's helpful to the average reader to obliquely define Wikipedia reference inclusion policy in the help for what the tag means. Finally, why the weasel words in "may be required"? The parameter says "registration=yes", and it renders as "registration required" -- the "may be" has no business being there.
Points 1 and 3 seem objective enough that I would go ahead and edit the template myself now, but I don't seem to have the rights to edit that particular template.
"|subscription=yes" rendering may have parallel problems; I didn't check. -- Dan Harkless ( talk) 09:15, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
|registration=
and |subscription=
is in
Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration/sandbox.I've tested the df parameter in the cite web template. The use of that parameter is described in the documentation for that template. However, that parameter isn't included in the TemplateData, which means that using the parameter in VE requires ignoring an "unknown field" comment by VE. Once added, it does work as documented, however. Would someone add df parameters to TemplateData descriptions for all citation templates that allow this, so the "unknown field" comment by VE goes away? -- John Broughton (♫♫) 23:23, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
|df=
to test something else
on the Beta Cluster, and there's a display bug. It produced ( 7 July 2008)
, with an extraneous leading space. Please feel free to {{
ping}} me if you need any further information from me.
Whatamidoing (WMF) (
talk) 16:22, 30 June 2016 (UTC)Fixed, I think.
Wikitext | {{cite news
|
---|---|
Live | Ablan, Jennifer (8 July 2007). "Wikipedia page the latest status symbol". Reuters. Retrieved November 22, 2008. |
Sandbox | Ablan, Jennifer (8 July 2007). "Wikipedia page the latest status symbol". Reuters. Retrieved November 22, 2008. |
The conversion uses os.date()
with a format string '%e %B %Y'
. The %e
format returns the day-of-month-number with a leading space if the day is 1–9. There isn't a format string to return just the number regardless of the number of digits so I tweaked the code to look for and remove any leading space characters.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 17:19, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
There are editors (or at least one that I know of: Tisquesusa) who insist on small caps formatting of author names in references. The argument is that the ability to customize appearance of names is important, and that a technical solution should be found to enable it (i.e. a form of |author-mask= functionality). It would be helpful to discuss whether the current recommendation is to be upheld, or perhaps there is a way to accommodate this request. -- Dcirovic ( talk) 22:42, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
|author=
, per
the Manual of Style, which says "Avoid writing with all capitals, including small caps, when they have only a stylistic function."{{
aut}}
plainly wrong. That template has about
12k page uses; {{
small caps}}
has a mere 70 page uses. According to
this insource: search, there are less than 25 pages using {{
aut}}
in |author=
; I found none in a similar search using |last=
or |lastn=
.I'm in the process of cleaning out
Category:CS1 maint: Date and year and have found several templates like this one where |year=
holds more date detail than just the year:
{{Cite news| url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/5207045/Intertek-shares-soar-on-speculation-of-bid-from-Swiss-rival-SGS.html|title=Intertek shares soar on speculation of bid from Swiss rival SGS|accessdate=30 August 2010|publisher=The Telegraph| year=23 Apr 2009 | location=London | first=Louise | last=Armitstead | date=23 April 2009}}
{{
cite book}}
: Check date values in: |year=
(
help)CS1 maint: date and year (
link)It seems to me that |year=
should hold just that, a year with optional circa and/or optional CITEREF
disambiguator.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 12:55, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
Looking further at this, a 'solution' is problematic. Before we do the date validation, we look at the values of |date=
, |year=
, and |publication-date=
. If |date=
is not set, we promote the first set of |year=
or |publication-date=
to |date=
. So, when |date=
is not set and |year=23 Apr 2009
, we make |date=23 Apr 2009
and |year=
becomes nil. Because '23 Apr 2009' is a valid date, and no longer associated with |year=
, there is no detectable error.
'Fixed' in the sandbox:
{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: date and year (
link){{
cite book}}
: Check date values in: |year=
(
help)CS1 maint: date and year (
link)— Trappist the monk ( talk) 10:45, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
If|date=
is not set, we promote the first set of|year=
or|publication-date=
to|date=
.
|year=
or |publication-date=
to |date=
? Or does the value of these parameters become the cited date instead?Currently, the invocation of {{
cite journal}}
in citoid and VE's insert template function, doesn't, by default, include the fields of "Volume" and "Issue". I am guessing for the vast majority (academic journal and popular magazine runs) of the uses of this template, having those fields is crucial to identifying the correct issue within the print run of the work. Can someone who is familiar with
TemplateData make these default fields? It seems silly to have new editors know they need to add this field, instead of spoon feeding the option to them. Thanks much,
Sadads (
talk) 15:29, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
|volume=
is left blank, then ve uses the value set in the TemplateData 'default' field. The 'suggested' as opposed to 'optional' setting would seem to be what it is that you want.{{
cite journal}}
TemplateData, go to
Template:Cite_journal#TemplateData and edit that section. You will see a button at the top that reads 'Manage TemplateData'. Click that and you are in the TemplateData editor.{{
cite journal}}
for popular magazines, but {{
cite magazine}}
- it also has |volume=
and |issue=
, but they are displayed differently. --
Redrose64 (
talk) 17:08, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
The Los Angeles Times has some kind of weird paywall thing going on. For example, this article displays for me with no problem, but this one tells me I've reached my monthly limit and need to cough up some cash if I want to read it.
Well never mind that weirdness, that's secondary. Let's say they treated all articles the same, giving you x free views per month. There is no way to know whether a particular reader has reached their monthly limit, so should cites for that site use |subscription=y
? It's a "subscription might be required, depending" situation. ―
Mandruss
☎ 09:43, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
|subscription=limited
which in turn might tell the module to emit a message like (Subscription may be required) or (Limited free access).Addressing issues raised at
Adding open access links to references caused me to wonder about applying a similar mechanism to |subscription=
and |registration=
. For example, for this case: |subscription=yes
, the module might render a citation
{{cite news |title=Article title |url=//example.com |newspaper=World-wide Times Gazette |subscription=yes}}
Unlike the open access icons, this one is linked to explanatory text.
For |registration=yes
, use the same lock icon but in a different color? For the 'limited free access' case contemplated in this discussion, perhaps a gray colored version of the open access lock?
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 15:10, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
I have been thinking about this topic because of the discussion at Help talk:Citation Style 1#adding free-to-read icons. If cs1|2 is to replace text with icons, then those icons, it seems to me, should all have the same base shape. Because of the small size, detail visible at larger sizes will be lost. Along with that, we can't use color as the sole indicator of meaning because, those who are color blind won't notice the color difference except that perhaps the icon is a slightly different shade of gray. The meaning then, must be distinguishable by its shape. Here are four icons that I think could be used:
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 09:20, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
{{
pp}}
to show page protection. Not necessarily the same images, but mimicking that shape. I think a darker color would make it more apparent that the second lock is open, but I couldn't find such an image. That
Open Access logo is stylized and I don't think intended to closely resemble a padlock. Likewise, the Apple logo
is more about distinctive branding than apple recognition. It's meant to convey
Apple, not
apple. ―
Mandruss
☎ 03:32, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
Hello,
Maybe I'm missing something but I found that the cite web template (from here and citar web from portuguese wikipedia) doesn't offer a "permalink" parameter?! Most of time a website URL is different from the content URL (the "permalink"), how we inform this:
The portuguese version of "cite web" template is currently broken on several pages that has an URL on "publisher" and other parameters (eg [1], [2] and thousand others articles). How we can fix those citation without removing the very website URL or the permalink? It seems lame that cite web/citar web doesn't provide a permalink parameter. Thanks for any clarification. Dianakc ( talk) 17:23, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
|url=
is all that is required and that url links in |work=
and |publisher=
(and all of their aliases) are unnecessary and perhaps harmful (for a list of aliases, see 'Periodical' and 'PublisherName'
here). The values assigned to |work=
and |publisher=
may be used in the citation's metadata where the metadata format expects titles or title-like text. For example, the publisher metadata from this {{citar web}}
at
pt:Begonia annulata:
{{Citar web | url=http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-361149|título=''{{subst:PAGENAME}}''|acessodata=17/8/2014|autor=|data= 2010|formato= |publicado= [http://www.theplantlist.org The Plant List]|páginas=|língua=inglês|citação=}}
&rft.pub=%5Bhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.theplantlist.org+The+Plant+List%5D
&rft.pub=The+Plant+List
|título=''{{subst:PAGENAME}}''
isn't doing what it is that you want it to do. This is not a fault of the template but is a long-standing problem with MediaWiki. {{subst:}}
does not work in <ref>...</ref>
tags.|url=
holds a URL that points to a specific web page. Nor do I understand how you are
not really sure on how this template can be useful, the rendering is not user friendly since it can't differ the website URL from the content permalink.Someone must have found it useful because at en.wiki it is used on 2.2+million pages and there is this at the top of the
{{citar web}}
documentation page:
What is generated COinS for |publisher=[[The New York Times]]
? I've seen editors often link publisher, newspapers etc. so [[ and ]] might be problem too if modules don't do delinking.
Btw, (maybe wrong place to ask for {{
para}} but not important too much for starting discussion on template's talk page) I've just noticed that {{para|publisher|[[The New York Times]]}}
gives |publisher=
The New York Times
, why not |publisher=[[The New York Times]]
i.e. why not to nowiki parameter content?--
Obsuser (
talk) 02:46, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
|publisher=The New York Times
|publisher=[[The New York Times]]
|publisher=<nowiki>[[The New York Times]]</nowiki>
|newspaper=The New York Times
and if you want to be pedantically complete, add |publisher=Arthur Ochs Sulzberger Jr.
as well (but I don't see the point in that unless the news item was libellous, in which case it is Sulzberger who would be served with the legal papers). --
Redrose64 (
talk) 08:39, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
Somehow neither my familiarity with these templates nor the documentation is helping me figure out how to cite these two citations using the templates in a way that generates correct metadata and avoids error messages.
First, from Monterey Road (California), we have the citation
I would like to format it as
but that doesn't work:
{{
cite magazine}}
: Missing or empty |title=
(
help)Abusing |author=
instead of |publisher=
is a little better, but still no good.
It gets the text formatted the way I want, but puts the url in a bad place and complains about the missing or empty title. I also tried setting |title=none
to no avail.
Possibly the magazine piece has an actual title, but the Google books snippet view (sufficient for verifying the fact claimed to that source) is inadequate to locate it.
In any case, we should be capable of formatting non-titled magazine information. (This article actually uses CS2 and {{
citation}} but the behavior is the same.)
The second one is an external link from Erdős–Gyárfás conjecture:
{{
cite web}}
: External link in |work=
(
help)There seems to be no way to include a link both on the |title=
and |work=
without a complaint from the template. Changing |title=
to |contribution=
and |url=
to |contribution-url=
, in order to free up |title=
and |url=
for the second link, also doesn't work; the template just ignores the url.
These sorts of inflexibilities are driving me away from using the citation templates. I can only imagine how much stronger the same effect is likely to be on new users. — David Eppstein ( talk) 20:23, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
template markup removed from section heading. here's the link {{ Cite web}}— Trappist the monk ( talk) 10:18, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
Hey.
I tried inserting this:
{{cite web |url=http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/Vol.05/05.05/Hourglass/index.html |title=Lisa's Hourglass Is Back! |work=[[MacTech]] |publisher=Xplain |volume=5 |issue=5 |first=Mike |last=Morton |location=[[Waipahu, HI]]}}
It gave me this:
As you can see, the |issue=
, |volume=
and are ignored without an error message saying they are unknown parameters. (Doc pages says they are supported.) I could swear this is new. I had seen these parameters working before.
|location=
FleetCommand ( Speak your mind!) 07:09, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
|location=
is working again.
FleetCommand (
Speak your mind!) 07:13, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
{{
cite journal}}
:
{{cite journal |url=http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/Vol.05/05.05/Hourglass/index.html |title=Lisa's Hourglass Is Back! |work=[[MacTech]] |publisher=Xplain |volume=5 |issue=5 |first=Mike |last=Morton |location=[[Waipahu, HI]]}}
{{
Cite magazine}}
, unless you consider that in the class of "academic and scientific papers and journals". Per {{
Cite journal}}
. ―
Mandruss
☎ 15:36, 12 July 2016 (UTC){{
cite web}}
is not broken. In November 2015 we adjusted how
Module:Citation/CS1 supports |volume=
, |issue=
, |page(s)=
. See the
discussion.|FooBarParam=FUBAR
to it.) And why the documentation didn't get an update?In November 2015 we adjusted how Module:Citation/CS1 supportsand I did point to the discussion that preceded the change. So, yeah, I did|volume=
,|issue=
,|page(s)=
prevent {{ Cite web}} from displaying them.
{{
cite arxiv}}
which has a very limited set of parameters it supports and certain cases of |chapter=
aliases (see
Category:CS1 errors: chapter ignored).|volume=
or |issue=
except in the COinS boilerplate. Because that template's documentation is itself a template, it's hard to know if {{cite web}}
ever supported |volume=
and |issue=
. Certainly, it does not now and the documentation reflects that.Further to Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 18#Multiple authors, and User talk:Dcirovic/Archive 1#Authors, it appears that Dcirovic ( talk · contribs) has resumed their behaviour. I have left a note at User talk:Dcirovic#Authors, again. -- Redrose64 ( talk) 14:37, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
Hello. How do I cite "consulting editors" for this book in Zev Garber's article please? Someone added the book without using the citation template, but I'd like to cite it properly and include the OCLC. Thank you. Zigzig20s ( talk) 21:40, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
|others=
. See the documentation for {{
cite book}}. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 22:30, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
See
this version of
Carmen, which fails to render the editor "Neef, Sigrid" when |editor-link=de:Sigrid Need
is present. Omitting the de:
unsatisfactorily solves this problem.
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Neef, Sigrid, ed. (2000). Opera: Composers, Works, Performers (English ed.). Cologne: Könemann.
ISBN
3-8290-3571-3. {{
cite book}} : Check |editor-link= value (
help)
|
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Neef, Sigrid (2000). Opera: Composers, Works, Performers (English ed.). Cologne: Könemann.
ISBN
3-8290-3571-3. {{
cite book}} : Check |author-link= value (
help)
|
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Neef, Sigrid, ed. (2000). Opera: Composers, Works, Performers (English ed.). Cologne: Könemann. ISBN 3-8290-3571-3. |
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Neef, Sigrid (2000). Opera: Composers, Works, Performers (English ed.). Cologne: Könemann. ISBN 3-8290-3571-3. |
~ Tom.Reding ( talk ⋅ dgaf) 18:07, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
What's doubly weird is that the editor is rendered here in the {{ cite compare2}} calls above, but not in my sandbox... ~ Tom.Reding ( talk ⋅ dgaf) 18:08, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
Perhaps this isn't a problem with cs1|2 but a problem with the mark-up. Remember the old days when interlanguage links were added to the article? Then we moved them all to wikidata so we've forgotten that those old interlanguage links had the form: [[de:Sigrid Neef]]
(and it is Neef). Those constructs added the link to the languages menus at left but were not visible in the article.
In those days, and still today, if you want a visible interlanguage link in an article, the format is: [[:de:Sigrid Neef]]
. Right? See
Help:Interlanguage_links.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 22:39, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
[[:Category:
, [[:File:
, etc; wonderful. I hadn't connected the syntaxes for some reason... ~
Tom.Reding (
talk ⋅
dgaf) 01:53, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Wikitext | {{cite book
|
---|---|
Live | Neef, Sigrid, ed. (2000). Opera: Composers, Works, Performers (English ed.). Cologne: Könemann.
ISBN
3-8290-3571-3. {{
cite book}} : Check |editor-link= value (
help)
|
Sandbox | Neef, Sigrid, ed. (2000). Opera: Composers, Works, Performers (English ed.). Cologne: Könemann.
ISBN
3-8290-3571-3. {{
cite book}} : Check |editor-link= value (
help)
|
{{ cite compare}} |
de:
with de:
didn't change anything. ~
Tom.Reding (
talk ⋅
dgaf) 12:41, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
[[:de:Sigrid Need]]
produces an inline link to the foreign-language page. In talk namespaces only, [[de:Sigrid Need]]
produces an inline link to the foreign-language page, but in non-talk namespaces, [[de:Sigrid Need]]
produces nothing inline, instead it adds a link to the "languages" list in the left sidebar. --
Redrose64 (
talk) 21:03, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
|author-link=
or |editor-link=
. ~
Tom.Reding (
talk ⋅
dgaf) 22:45, 15 July 2016 (UTC)