This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | Archive 14 | Archive 15 |
Having tried to use RFCs in an area of heavy nationalist dispute and seen them used by others in similar situations, I found that the process was utterly useless. The main problem was that as soon as one was opened, all the involved editors on both sides show up with their predictable responses. Any genuinely neutral outsiders (and there are frequently none) are drowned out and the RFC descends into the same farce it was meant to overcome.
Having given this some thought, I considered there could be a few ways of solving this issue:
No doubt this will be shot down in flames, but given the current situation where either small inside groups with the same POV can dominate RFCs, or two balanced inside groups can spin them into thousands of words of text without resolving anything, I think some action is required to ensure outside views are able to make an impact. Number 5 7 00:29, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
I agree with user:Number_57 in that RfC's are meant to draw outside input and insiders are overly involved. Insiders engaging in a discussion under the RfC banner defeats the purpose of the RfC by discouraging outsider comment. Insider comments should take place elsewhere on the talk page so as to not discourage outsiders from sharing their opinions.
I also agree with user:Jojalozzo in that involved editors have developed opinions that are important to the discussion. But again, that discussion belongs on the talk page, and not in a section dedicated to securing outside comments. I think many RfC's provide an opportunity for a fresh start in a discussion that has failed to reach consensus, but that fresh start discussion should take place away from the section where outside users are trying to provide neutral comments. To reiterate an RfC section is for comments, a talk page is for discussion.
I think the problem that Number_57 is getting at is the difficulty of the discussions that come out of the RfC process. I have noticed that often there are too many editors in a discussion for a fruitful discussion to take place and that the RfC contributors often provide non-neutral comments. Inherently an RfC banner can cause or worsen the problem of too many cooks. I think it would be helpful to recommend for the removal of a RfC banner in cases where it hampers the consensus process. Any thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnathlon ( talk • contribs) 19:01, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
At Talk:Demi Moore#A specific proposal, three of the four remaining editors after weeks of debate have agreed to a wording. Here is a copy of my post there today saying that I would like to have an admin give "a disinterested outside opinion" on whether consensus had, in fact been reached.
Three editors — myself, AndyTheGrump and λόγος — have agreed on a wording ... bridging, may I say, significant differences over a large amount of time and effort in order to reach a good-faith compromise together. At this point, I think it's fair to go to the RfC noticeboard for this item and ask if an admin would look at this and offer a disinterested outside opinion.
Here again is Andy's wording, which has garnered support from λόγος and myself:
"Some sources give Moore's birth name as Demetria,[4 representative footnotes] others as Demi[Stuart's 4 representative footnotes]. Moore says the latter is correct.[2 tweets plus Bang Showbiz]."?
-- Tenebrae ( talk) 20:00, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
Would an admin please come and close this RfC? Debate has died down, consensus seems clear, and it is time to move on. See Talk:2011#Request_for_Comment:_Mohamed_Bouazizi_and_the_Occupy_movement_additions. Wrad ( talk) 17:42, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
There's a question at WP:AN today about suspending an RFC/U due to the subject saying that he's leaving Wikipedia. This comes up maybe twice a year, usually in the context of worries about someone trying to game the system by taking a wikibreak and hoping that no one will care if they come back next month, but sometimes due to temporary circumstances, like someone getting blocked for a week over something unrelated. (It seems unfair and ineffective to continue dispute resolution when the subject can't participate.)
I thought it might be worth briefly describing how to "suspend" an RFC/U, but I can't decide where to put the information. Maybe at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User conduct/Closing or at Wikipedia:RFC/U#Closing_and_archiving? And should it get an entry in the archives or not? WhatamIdoing ( talk) 17:40, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents has been nominated for deletion. Please join the discussion. A Quest For Knowledge ( talk) 17:02, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
The current RfC/U on Fae is one of a long line of big, ugly, unproductive affairs that can't stay on topic (doesn't really have a topic) and doesn't know when to end. I think we need to reform the RfC/U process. Heck, I'm thinking maybe RfC/U belongs at MfD. It's a page that doesn't accomplish anything but raising a lot of hard feelings. But I think a few simple Human Rights for Editors might fix much of the problem.
I'm not sure this list of rights is enough, but it's a start. Wnt ( talk) 13:45, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
I just added a second topic to the {{ rfc}} template at Talk:Richard Dawkins. Will the bot pick up on this? [1] __ meco ( talk) 13:43, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
I think it would be quite helpful if the instructions on the RfC asked people to provide source and brief summaries for content disputes in RfC. To many times I see an RfC such as "Was Jesus a Palestinian?" and nothing but opinions in the following 500 lines. RfC's would be much easier to respond to if there was a reserved section for sources and summaries AND people were advised to fill out these sections when starting the RfC. Gsonnenf ( talk) 11:12, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
Just noting here that the RfC posting tool seems to be dead. EyeSerene talk 12:50, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
I recently added an RFC request to Talk:Talbot Hobbs#Effect of the redevelopment plans, and RFC bot appears to have processed my request. However the article doesn't seem to appear on either of the requested lists: Biographies and Politics/govt/law. Is there a technical problem with the bot? Mitch Ames ( talk) 09:54, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
wht do you think other countries within SSA view South Africa and South African Businesses.Do you belive they trust us and can do business or merely see us a MINI colonisers of the continent — Preceding unsigned comment added by NM-Ntuli ( talk • contribs) 13:22, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
We have thousands of subpages, and no categorisation scheme. I can appreciate that we may not want to categorise RFC/U, however there are many other types of RFCs which are given a dedicated RFC subpage. In May 2009, the issue of categorisation/archiving of RFCs was raised. Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_comment/Archive_10#Archive_of_past_RfCs. We have an archive of Wikipedia:Centralized discussion ( Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Archive); does it include all subpages?
For the moment, I've placed a few RFCs in Category:Wikipedia Arbitration Committee archives and . John Vandenberg ( chat) 07:23, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
How does one close an RFC? My RFC was delisted by the bot, but now what?-- Taylornate ( talk) 04:17, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
You can just leave it, or consider using {{ discussion top}}. If it is likely to be a contentious summary ask at WP:ANI for an independent administrator to close and summarise the RfC. -- PBS ( talk) 09:34, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
The Wikipedia:Requests for comment/COI, which was requested by the Arbitration Committee, has essentially been inactive for a week. It will be a messy RfC to close, but I think it is quite important that somebody do it correctly. Smallbones ( talk) 03:09, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
Does the process described for requesting comment on users apply to a an editor using an IP address? If not, what process does apply? Jc3s5h ( talk) 18:41, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
Is RfC only for requesting more opinions during a dispute, or can it be used when nobody responds to a talk page discussion and being bold would be inappropriate. Ryan Vesey Review me! 01:09, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
This was added by Moff Wolf ( talk · contribs) Left a message on his talk page - Is it a misplaced RfC? |
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The following discussion has been closed by Coastside. Please do not modify it. |
Durban University of Technology's students are complaining about NSFAS, Student accomodation, and the way they are treated by lectures some students believe that Apartheid was not accomplished on the 27th of April but instead it was only the beging they even mentioned racial prejudisim has started to become a huge matter at DUT never the less some studentes are happy to be at DUT. Early this year SASCO(which is the organisation that fights for students rights) dicided to go on strik because they were not happy about the dicision that was taken by NSFAS thing, they said to believe that SRC is sleeping with the managnment of DUT for something in return and they have forgoten about student who they represent as the SRC. the president of SASCO at DUT said they do not mean any bad thing about protesting they only want their voices to be heard by the managnment of DUT and he said he will do anything for his students to get a better education. NSFAS was blamed by many students because it did not providing tuition funds to them early. |
Coastside ( talk) 20:21, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
moved to Talk:Wisconsin_gubernatorial_recall_election#Intrade |
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The following discussion has been closed by Coastside. Please do not modify it. |
Protaganists state (Should be included) because:
Antagonists state (Should not be included) because:
Talk page is located at the Talk:Wisconsin_gubernatorial_recall_election,_2012 talk page, under Intrade [ [2]] Patriot1010 ( talk) 18:33, 4 June 2012 (UTC) |
Coastside ( talk) 21:13, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
Not the right page to post RfCs |
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The following discussion has been closed by Coastside. Please do not modify it. |
Crime Story (film) is being maliciously edited in spite of my providing sources for no good reason Dwanyewest ( talk) 21:39, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
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Coastside ( talk) 15:18, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
Not the right page to post RfCs |
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The following discussion has been closed by Coastside. Please do not modify it. |
The issue is involving a dispute over what flags should be used in the template, the two flags have political connotations, and we need help on achieving either a compromise, or something because the users there including me are getting very frustrated with each other. The issue is here. [3]
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Coastside ( talk) 15:23, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The WT:Requests for comment/Request board page says "Requests made on this board will be transferred to the appropriate place by a volunteer." It seems some RFCs are old. What's going on? Are there not enough volunteers to move these RFCs? Would it be helfpul to run through these and move them all? Coastside ( talk) 08:19, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
When you add an RfC to the Request for comment noticeboard (or simply edit the page), there is an edit notice that includes the following:
"If you know exactly which page the discussion should take place on, it is preferred that you use the RfC posting tool."
Clicking on that link results in a 403 error (User account has expired for user messedrocker)
Anyone know who is responsible for the RfC posting tool or this edit notice? Coastside ( talk) 14:48, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
I have added an exception in a footnote to allow an RFC to be used in the case where a user has made a good-faith effort to get another editor to discuss an edit, but has received no response. All content dispute resolution processes require discussion before requesting DR and requests are routinely dismissed or closed if no discussion has taken place. Failure to respond to a request to discuss is not defined as disruptive editing, so an editor faced with continual reversions despite his or her requests to discuss the proposed edits must either edit war or give up. Regards, TransporterMan ( TALK) 18:02, 30 May 2012 (UTC) PS: Prior to this overall revision in 2006 the requirement was that one must "try" to discuss the matter before filing an RFC. This revision, in effect, restores that qualification. — TM 18:05, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
Requested an RFC for this page a few days ago and haven't had a response from an outside editor yet (by outside, I mean someone who has never contributed edits to this page). If someone could take a look and leave some comments, that would be great. JDC808 ( talk) 02:10, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
I have some text I would like to insert into the Vassula Ryden article, under the Supporters section based on an excerpt of a book. The text in the book appears as follows:
The late Archbishop Franic of Split, for years the head of the Yugoslav Catholic Bishops’ Conference and an expert on mystical phenomena, wrote strongly in favor of Ryden. He expressed the astonishment shared by many theologians and church leaders who cannot understand how a normal woman who never received theological training can write down messages whose beauty and profundity stand out among contemporary spiritual writings. [1]
The book an approved RS on the RSN. I would like to know - how I can insert the information quoted above, without infringing on copyright policy? Do I reword the text? Do I say "Hvidt (the author) claims"? Whats the normal way to go about quoting a source? Thanks. Arkatakor ( talk) 16:22, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
i am currently putting the finishing touches to a request for comment for the article Rangers F.C
so my questions
firstly the request for comment outcome will affect the decision on about 50+ articles as they need to be edited to convey teh same information. so do i need ot put the request for ocmment on them all?
secondly the content dispute is quite a serious one in teh fact nither side is willign to back down, so i am hoping outside input will help, but i am hoping to amke it like Request for ADminship that to say there consensus something like 75% of the response to each question must be for one side of the the question or the other ie agree or disagree before a consensus coudl be said has been reached am i allowed ot do this>?-- Andrewcrawford ( talk - contrib) 22:46, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
I signed of for the feedback request service, asking for RfCs in the areas of maths, science, and technology. I specifically do not want to see Rfcs on politics. Why am I being asked to comment on Talk:Barack Obama on Twitter? How is that a math, science, or technology issue? If Barack Obama uses a telephone, that doesn't make the topic telecommunications. If he drives a car, that does not make the topic highway engineering. If he flies in an airplane, that does not make the topic aerospace.
If a human is sorting these into categories, they really need to not tag something like Talk:Barack Obama on Twitter as a maths, science, and technology RfC. If it's an algorithm that is doing the tagging, it needs tweaking. -- Guy Macon ( talk) 20:17, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
Two people at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Bittergrey have made talk page comments indicating that they're uncertain about RFC/U procedural issues. It might be good if one of the experienced hands would keep an eye on it and answer any procedural questions that come up. I'd offer to do it myself, but I may decide to be an active participant rather than a process gnome for this one. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 01:13, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
WP:Requests for comment/Youreallycan needs help ASAP. It's got threaded comments throughout, including edit-warring to keep such comments in the section reserved for the exclusive use of the subject's response [4] [5] [6], as well as multiple sections for people to oppose views. I think that this needs multiple people helping the participants read and follow the directions, or we're going to end up with an RFC/U that requires full protection (thus making it useless for resolving the dispute). WhatamIdoing ( talk) 01:02, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
In various discussions (including several RFC/U's) I have seen the opinion expressed that RFC/U's are useless and a waste of time. From my observation of several "high-profile" RFC/U's that would appear to be the case, based on the fact that the inevitable outcome of the RFC/U seems to be that there is then a request for arbitration. I am wondering whether there are any actual statistics on this, in other words, what percentage of RFC/U's result in a "resolution" of the dispute over the user's conduct, and what percentage are followed closely (say, within 6 months) by a request for arbitration. Neutron ( talk) 17:32, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
Nobody answered my last question, so maybe somebody (or nobody) will answer this one: The rules about RFC/U's say: "Any RfC not accompanied by evidence showing that two users tried and failed to resolve the same dispute may be deleted after 48 hours as "uncertified"." On some RFC/U pages (and their talk pages) there has been some discussion of whether a certifier was involved in "the same dispute" with the subject as the initiator of the RFC/U was. But why does this requirement exist at all? If someone is involved in many different disputes with many different editors, but no "second person" desires to certify the RFC/U with regard to a specific dispute, why can't the RFC/U proceed. There is one going on now where it is obvious that literally dozens if not hundreds of editors have had some interaction with the subject, which they believe warrants some sort of sanction. And the subject has been blocked multiple times for various conduct. Should that not be enough? Obviously there is reason, in that case, to invite comments about the user in order to inform him/her of ways in which he/she can be a "good citizen", and if the advice is not accepted, the next step can be arbitration. But as it is now, if an RFC/U is closed because the "second certifier" could not be found, even though there are many people who have had disputes with the person, when it gets to arbitration, ArbCom is likely to decline the request because there was no RFC. This sounds like a "dispute aggravation process" rather than a "dispute resolution process" to me. How about eliminating the requirement that the "second certifier" be involved in "the same dispute", and just change it to "a dispute with the same editor"? And, by the way, despite my use of an unspecified example above (the identity of which is probably clear), I have no dog in that fight, or any other that is going on. I just want the process to be better. Neutron ( talk) 21:21, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
I'm dealing with a situation and have been looking for guidance how best to deal with non-neutrality in RfC statements. Obviously it would be best of the RfC had been mutually written by those in disagreement to arrive at neutral language, but that doesn't always happen.
So specifically with talk page RfCs does WP:Neutrality override WP:TPO in an RfC or can we add something that gives some emphasis how important neutral language is so that rewording by others may be needed to have a balance statement(s) to operate from for a healthy discussion? And what is the best process to approach that rewording? Insomesia ( talk) 23:18, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
Now let's start talking about the issues that make it "a bit more complicated than that":
So there are times when you have to change an RFC question, or substitute a brief one above the existing long one. I'm not sure that we really want to have a long section on all the details and complications as part of this page. What's the minimum amount of information that would be useful? WhatamIdoing ( talk) 21:53, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
In the past I had had similar problems with an AfD (See here), there was no statement for why it should be deleted, so some were of the opinion to keep for the technical reason of no AfD statement. One of those in favour of keeping (for other reasons) argued that retroactively putting a statement at the top was a breach of the AfD procedure..... Anyway although the points raised above are valid, I do not think that putting a statement in chronological order somewhere on the page about the content of the wording of the RfC or the AfD or whatever is a sensible solution to such a problem, the content of the debate should be about the proposed RfC issue raised in the nomination not the content of the nomination. Instead I propose that there is a subsection/area for alternative nominations placed intimately after nomination. In this reserved area (whether it is a formal subsection can be debated further) other editors can place one alternative nomination statement (not criticisms of the nomination and no right to make a second statement or any comments in this area). This would address the issue, with little change in the current process or customs regarding the refactoring of other editors comments.
This is copy (with modifications) based on the layout used "Request comment on users". -- PBS ( talk) 08:52, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
I've boldly added (wording from section above this one)
to the section on Suggestions for responding. Insomesia ( talk) 20:01, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
There doesn't appear to be any way of reviewing archived RfC's by topic, only users. How can this be fixed? Viriditas ( talk) 20:43, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
The "Ending" section seems to be missing a lot of important guidance. It should plainly state things like:
My point is that the "Ending" section in this guideline is not very helpful to editors, particularly inexperienced editors. I'm not saying that all of the above bulleted items are accepted policy by the WP community: I'm just using them as examples of the nature of guidance that should be provided to editors. Therefore, I propose improving the "Ending" section by adding material similar to that listed above. [Note to other editors: feel free to amend the above bullet list to improve it using strikeouts etc]. Thoughts? -- Noleander ( talk) 22:01, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
The section title "Request comment through talk pages" seems like it could be better. The parallel section is "Request comment on users", which is a good title. The title "Request comment through talk pages" is emphasizing where the request is made, rather than what the request is about. I suggest changing the title to
Thoughts? -- Noleander ( talk) 14:15, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
I've seen several similar RfC's created over the past few weeks relating to the SPLC naming organizations hate groups. Without commenting on the content of these RfCs, some of the are being created without any discussion first. Others seem to be taking an attempt at two bites of the apple. Has this issue been addressed before?
little green rosetta
(talk)
central scrutinizer 03:01, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
I notice that there is an RfC Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Categorization of persons which does not utilize an RfC template, and hence is not listed in the RfC lists. Contrasted with, say, Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Education Program extension, which does use an RfC template. I suppose there is no requirement that an RfC template be used, but it seems odd to omit it. Should some guidance be added to the RfC guideline to address the possibility of omitting an RfC template? Or should the RfC guideline continue to suggest that the template is the standard approach (and treat missing templates as an aberration). -- Noleander ( talk) 15:14, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
If you look at Talk:Texas Revolution#Threaded discussion, this appears to be an RfC discussion and people say they were led to the discussion by the RfCbot, but I can't find an official RfC nor was this ever closed. I'd reopen it if I could figure out how to do it, because it is clearly unresolved and articles are still using both Texian and Texan. Thanks. Dougweller ( talk) 09:17, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
Should we be clearer about the standard practices for multi-author "questions"? Sometimes the wording of a question is hashed out in advance, in which case the following seem to be generally true:
What do you think? WhatamIdoing ( talk) 15:25, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
Low-participation RFCs on talk pages with quick archiving rules fairly often get archived before the 30-day bot period. The RFC bot copes gracefully with this, but it seems to surprise some of the editors. On the assumption that no one is planning to re-write the talk page archiving bots to skip sections containing RFC templates, should we maybe mention the possibility of an aggressive archiving timeline resulting in short discussions? Or is it too much instruction creep? WhatamIdoing ( talk) 01:22, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
{{subst:DNAU|<integer>}}
(where "integer" stands for a number of days) to the top of the RfC. See
Template:Do not archive until.
SlimVirgin
(talk) 23:22, 19 September 2012 (UTC)I filed this RFC yesterday but the bot has not listed it at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Media, the arts, and architecture. Can this be corrected please. Betty Logan ( talk) 13:17, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
Sorry about that. Another RfC was breaking RFCbot, and basically it was crashing before it was able to list your RfC. It should be resolved now. -- Chris 08:53, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
I was selected for "request of comment". What is that? DEIDRA C. ( talk) 21:19, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
Hi WhatamIdoing, can you direct me to the discussion you referred to when you reverted? [7] The problem with your edit is you seem to be changing the description of an RfC to anyone can close it at any time, and this just isn't how they normally work. Advising people that that's okay is likely to lead to problems. SlimVirgin (talk) 21:28, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
I'll post the four versions below for comparison. Basically, my objection is that the new versions are too wordy and repetitive, and that they give a misleading impression that anyone may close an RfC at any time, when in fact doing that often leads to problems. For example, if the originator of an RfC (or anyone else) tried to close it after a couple of days while people were still commenting, s/he would be reverted, so there's no point in adding to the guideline that it's okay to do that. SlimVirgin (talk) 23:00, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
Version at 07:37, 27 June 2012 (before recent changes) | Version at 20:36, 11 September 2012 |
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RfCs that are listed by the RfC bot are also automatically de-listed by the RfC bot after 30 days (calculated from the first timestamp after the RfC template). Thirty days is the default length, but there is no required minimum or maximum length. If consensus has been reached before 30 days, the RfC nominator(s) can remove the RfC tag, and the bot will remove the discussion from the list on its next run. If further time is wanted, editors can change the first timestamp to a more recent date, which will prevent the bot from removing the listing. Manually added RfCs must be manually closed. This is accomplished by deleting the text that you added from the RfC page. All requests for comment on a user need to be closed manually. This should be done by an uninvolved editor (not necessarily an admin) when the dispute has been resolved, moved to any other forum, or seems unlikely to be resolved.
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The default duration of a RfC is 30 days, but there is no minimum or maximum length. The RfC bot will automatically remove a RfC from the list of active RfCs after 30 days, measured from the first timestamp within the talk page RfC section. If a RfC discussion concludes before 30 days, and there is no objection to closing the RfC, you can manually close the RfC by deleting the RfC template, {{
rfc}}, from the talk page RfC section (then the RfC bot will remove the RfC from the active RfC list on its next run). If more than 30 days are required, change the first timestamp within the talk page RfC section to a more recent date. The originator of a RfC can close the RfC at any time if they feel the issue has been addressed, or if they no longer have a need for outside input. Other editors, in that situation, can continue the discussion without a RfC, or start a new RfC. Editors other than the originator should not close a RfC if the discussion is ongoing or if there is an objection from other participants. Normally, by the end of the discussion, the participants have the information they need and no formal closing process or statement is either necessary or helpful. If the RfC is unusually complex or if the results are disputed, you may ask an uninvolved editor to formally close the discussion. The closing editor will review, summarize, and announce the results of the discussion. Participants may ask any uninvolved, willing editor to close the RfC, or a request can be posted at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure. All requests for comment on a user need to be closed manually. This should be done by an uninvolved editor (not necessarily an admin) when the dispute has been resolved, moved to any other forum, or seems unlikely to be resolved. |
SV's version (21:03, 11 September 2012) | WhatamIdoing's version (21:12, 11 September 2012) |
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RfCs usually last for at least seven days and at most 30. RfCs that are of community-wide importance (such as RfCs that affect key policies) are normally expected to run for 30 days. The RfC bot will automatically remove an RfC from the list of active RfCs after 30 days, measured from the first timestamp within the RfC section. If people have stopped commenting before this time, and if there is no objection to closing the RfC, you can manually close it by deleting the RfC template, {{
rfc}}, from the talk page, and the RfC bot will remove the RfC from the active list on its next run. If more than 30 days are required, change the first timestamp within the talk page RfC section to a more recent date. If by the end of the discussion the consensus is not obvious, or if the issue is a contentious one, you should ask an uninvolved admin or editor to close the discussion, rather than closing it yourself. The closing editor will summarize and announce the results of the discussion. Participants may ask any uninvolved editor to close the RfC, or a request can be posted at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure. |
The default duration of a RfC is 30 days, but there is no minimum or maximum length. The RfC bot will automatically remove a RfC from the list of active RfCs after 30 days, measured from the first timestamp within the talk page RfC section. If a RfC discussion concludes before 30 days, and there is no objection to closing the RfC, you can manually close the RfC by deleting the RfC template, {{
rfc}}, from the talk page RfC section (then the RfC bot will remove the RfC from the active RfC list on its next run). If more than 30 days are required, change the first timestamp within the talk page RfC section to a more recent date. The originator of a RfC can close the RfC at any time if they feel the issue has been addressed, or if they no longer have a need for outside input. Other editors, in that situation, can continue the discussion without a RfC, or start a new RfC. Editors other than the originator should not close a RfC if the discussion is ongoing or if there is an objection from other participants. Normally, by the end of the discussion, the participants have the information they need and no formal closing process or statement is either necessary or helpful. If the RfC is unusually complex or if the results are disputed, you may ask an uninvolved editor to formally close the discussion. The closing editor will review, summarize, and announce the results of the discussion. Participants may ask any uninvolved, willing editor to close the RfC, or a request can be posted at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure. All requests for comment on a user need to be closed manually. This should be done by an uninvolved editor (not necessarily an admin) when the dispute has been resolved, moved to any other forum, or seems unlikely to be resolved. |
I see what you are driving at. How about this:
The default duration of a RfC is 30 days, but there is no minimum or maximum length. The RfC bot will automatically remove a RfC from the list of active RfCs after 30 days, measured from the first timestamp within the talk page RfC section. If a RfC discussion concludes before 30 days, and there is no objection to closing the RfC, you can manually close the RfC by deleting the RfC template, {{ rfc}}, from the talk page RfC section (then the RfC bot will remove the RfC from the active RfC list on its next run). If more than 30 days are required, change the first timestamp within the talk page RfC section to a more recent date.
The originator of a RfC can close the RfC at any time if they feel the issue has been addressed, or if they no longer have a need for outside input. Other editors, in that situation, can continue the discussion without a RfC, or start a new RfC.Editorsother than the originatorshould not close a RfC if the discussion is ongoing or if there is an objection from other participants.Normally, by the end of the discussion, the participants have the information they need and no formal closing process or statement is either necessary or helpful. If the RfC is unusually complex or if the results are disputed, you may ask an uninvolved editor to formally close the discussion. The closing editor will review, summarize, and announce the results of the discussion. Participants may ask any uninvolved, willing editor to close the RfC, or a request can be posted at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure.
All requests for comment on a user need to be closed manually. This should be done by an uninvolved editor (not necessarily an admin) when the dispute has been resolved, moved to any other forum, or seems unlikely to be resolved.
But I'd like to hear WhatAmIDoing's thoughts, since they originally suggested item #11. -- Noleander ( talk) 23:10, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
Noleander, could you say what was unclear, missing or inaccurate in my version above? SlimVirgin (talk) 00:30, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
To try to organize the discussion of possible improvements to the Ending section, here is a numbered list of issues. Feel free to add more:
-- Noleander ( talk) 02:17, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
Here are my thoughts:
Here is another proposal that addresses some of the issues above:
The default duration of a RfC is 30 days, but there is no minimum or maximum length. The RfC bot will automatically remove a RfC from the list of active RfCs after 30 days, measured from the first timestamp within the talk page RfC section. If a RfC discussion concludes before 30 days, and there is no objection to closing the RfC, you can manually close the RfC by deleting the RfC template, {{ rfc}}, from the talk page RfC section (then the RfC bot will remove the RfC from the active RfC list on its next run). If more than 30 days are required, change the first timestamp within the talk page RfC section to a more recent date.
The originator of a RfC can close the RfC at any time if they feel the issue has been addressed, or if they no longer have a need for outside input. Other editors, in that situation, can continue the discussion without a RfC, or start a new RfC.Editorsother than the originatorshould not close a RfC if the discussion is ongoing or if there is an objection from other participants.
Normally, by the end of the discussion, the participants have the information they need and no formal closing process or statement is either necessary or helpful.If the participants in the RfC arrive at a consensus, you may close the RfC by removing the RfC template, or simply by letting the 30 day period elapse. Alternatively, if the RfC is unusually complex or if the results are disputed, you may ask an uninvolved editor to formally close the discussion. The closing editor will review, summarize, and announce the results of the discussion. Participants may ask any uninvolved, willing editor to close the RfC, or a request can be posted at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure.
All requests for comment on a user need to be closed manually. This should be done by an uninvolved editor (not necessarily an admin) when the dispute has been resolved, moved to any other forum, or seems unlikely to be resolved.All requests for comment on a user must be closed following the instructions in WP:RFCU.
I object to these recent changes but when I try to fix them I'm being reverted wholesale, so I've restored the version before the changes began. Article RfCs are the one area of dispute resolution that usually work and are usually drama-free, so I want to make sure this page doesn't give a misleading impression of best practice. And I think, for example, the issue of the originator closing whenever he wants, and not acknowledging that seven days minimum is standard, does give a misleading impression. I also think the wordiness is getting in the way of clarity. SlimVirgin (talk) 23:48, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
It looks like there are still a few open issues:
Any others? -- Noleander ( talk) 23:55, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
Looking at those 3 open issues:
Does that sound like a good plan? -- Noleander ( talk) 15:17, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
It seems to me that this question about how to approach the "OP withdrawing the RfC" situation is a manifestation of a bigger shortcoming in the Ending section: The Ending section has a decent discussion of the mechanisms of closing (remove RfC tag, etc), but not too much on the scenarios which give rise to a close. I think the Ending section should briefly mention a few common situations that lead to a close, perhaps including:
In other words, in addition to listing the mechanisms for closing also give some tutorial guidance to rookie editors on when a close happens. I'm not suggesting that we try to come up with a comprehensive list of every imaginable scenario, but rather that we mention a few of the common ones so rookie editors can read it and think "aha, so that is how it goes!" Thoughts? -- Noleander ( talk) 02:37, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
How and when to close an RfC on an article, policy or guideline is a matter of common sense and context. ... Deciding when to close depends on how much interest there is in the issue, how important it is to the community, whether editors are continuing to comment, and whether further notices should be posted to attract fresh input. RfCs that have been advertised as closing on a certain date should not be closed prematurely.
Any editor can close an RfC when consensus is unambiguous, but if the issue is a contentious one or consensus remains unclear, it is better to ask that an uninvolved admin or editor close it, sum up consensus, and impose the conclusion as appropriate.
If you want something more verbose, I would suggest something like this:
How and when to close an RfC on an article, policy or guideline is a matter of common sense and context. The default duration is 30 days, and a minimum of seven days is standard practice. Deciding when to close depends on how much interest there is in the issue, how important it is to the community, whether editors are continuing to comment, and whether further notices should be posted to attract fresh input. RfCs that have been advertised as closing on a certain date should not be closed prematurely.
Any editor can close an RfC when consensus is unambiguous, but if the issue is a contentious one or consensus remains unclear, it is better to ask that an uninvolved admin or editor close it, sum up consensus, and impose the conclusion as appropriate. Requests for closure can be posted at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure. If protecting or unprotecting a page might be required, or editing through protection, an admin closure is advisable.
To remove an RfC from the active RfC list, remove the RfC template, {{ rfc}}, from the talk page. The RfC bot will automatically remove an RfC from the active RfC list after 30 days, measured from the first timestamp within the RfC section on the talk page. It is unusual to extend an RfC beyond 30 days, but if there are no objections, or if the closer decides to extend it, this can be done by changing the first timestamp to a more recent date.
All requests for comment on a user should be closed in accordance with the instructions at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User conduct/Closing.
SlimVirgin (talk) 01:33, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
This seems like it should be pretty obvious. I would like to add verbage to the section that editing of a disputed section under RfC is prohibitted during the RfC. Since the RfC is a dispute resolution process, it seems quite stupid to allow editors to come into an RfC before it is closed, make a ruling and then edit based off what they think is the current trend.
Arzel ( talk) 16:57, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
Typically these testimonies, which include nothing but a vague description, are done by non-doctors making the diagnosis. [2] The verification process requires the contact information for three people (one a member of "The Mother Church") who "have either witnessed the healing or can vouch for its accuracy based on their knowledge of [the testifier]," [2] according to the Christian Science Publishing Society website. [3]
According to Stephen Barrett of Quackwatch (2009), most of these accounts contain little detail, and many of the diagnoses are made without medical consultation. [2] However, verification of an account of a healing is required before before its publication. This requires the contact information for three people (one a member of "The Mother Church") who "have either witnessed the healing or can vouch for its accuracy based on their knowledge of [the testifier]," [2] according to the Christian Science Publishing Society website. [3]
I might add that my version of Barrett’s article is more accurate, since it involves all but a direct quote.
Please let me know what you think. Michael J. Mullany ( talk) 03:09, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
(There have been a debate issue about the Chinese Zodiac signs and the Western Horoscope signs, I am going to remove the mythology from the Western Horoscope signs due to WP:BOLLOCKS. I went to the page protection page and wanted to protect the signs of these zodiac, because they are a reliable source to Eastern values and they constantly being vandalized by IP's and one user believes it's "crap" which is unethical of the user, I want the share of the same values with the Western Horoscope signs, because they both are psuedoscience source, but mainly from mythological sources and I am hoping to keep them as they were for mythological purposes, I tried hard in to protecting these articles and allowed the IP who helped. Yes, to some it may be fiction, but it is mythology to another nations heritage and I don't want another horoscope deleted while the other is better, please at protect these pages and the Western Astrology signs for the WP:RS is pertains to mythology. One administrator will be deleting the revisions. Although, I believe it was reliable to mythological uses, and not from another user unethical reason of "Pure Crap".
Yes, fiction, pertaining to mythology, but it doesn't need deletion, and at least if there is any way to the informative sentences. Western Astrology already had mythology sections, and Chinese Zodiac signs as well, but since it is going to be deleted I suggest removing the mythology from the Western Horoscope. I want to work for both sources from mythology, and it is not just Bollocks, but since this occurred I would go on and remove it from the Western Horoscope, although both sources were fact from their mythology, and there are IPs who do mess with one culture to another. I would like to build more on the Chinese Zodiac the sources of mythology and its heritage it pertains to their countries values about mythology and folkore.-- GoShow (............................) 16:57, 13 October 2012 (UTC))
In the Publicizing an RfC section, what is the bullet point Talk pages of editors you randomly select from Feedback Request Service (my emphasis) supposed to mean? From the context, I presume this sentence doesn't refer to the Bot notification. Confused, — MistyMorn ( talk) 16:06, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
I have listed an RfC under "Certified" however I am not sure if it should be listed under "General" due to the wording in the project page. The RfC in question is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/RidjalA Is it currently in the right place? Fordx12 ( talk) 16:57, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
Can someone take a look at Talk:Rape and pregnancy controversies in the 2012 United States elections ? There's an open RFC here, but it is occurring in a closed discussion area... either the RFC is closed improperly, or the discussion is closed improperly. -- 70.24.250.26 ( talk) 07:54, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
For what ever reason, the RFC titled, RfC: Rape and pregnancy controversies in the 2012 United States elections → 2012 Republican rape comment controversies is capturing comments from the conversation below it on the project page. I am not sure how to fix it. Casprings ( talk) 13:43, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
Why isn't Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_College_Basketball#College_basketball_team_season_articles_-_Schedules listed at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/All.-- TonyTheTiger ( T/ C/ BIO/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:FOUR) 05:34, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
Hello, folks! I've joined a few RfC and I dislike the current page format, where sections are named by editor. I think that discussions should be grouped by subject or point. For example, here an editor listed seven arguments. I'd prefer them to be placed each in a separate section, so discussions center on the issues and not on supporting or opposing editors. What do you think about this proposal? -- NaBUru38 ( talk) 18:17, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Well, this is pretty stale and I'm not sure anyone is still watching, but there was a request at
WP:ANRFC to close this, so here goes nothing:
On the question of whether an RFC close by a non-admin can be summarily overturned by an admin, in most cases, no, and never if the only reason is that the closer was not an admin. I don't think we can say there is any iron-clad policy or consensus on this issue, but generally there should be a very good reason for anyone to overturn another users close of an RFC. As to whether consensus can overturn a close, frankly this is a bit of a no-brainer. Consensus can do whatever it damn well pleases and can overturn any action, admin or not, with very, very few exceptions such as office actions. Exactly where the discussion can or should be held is not set in stone, AN, ANI, an appropriate village pump, or even a new discussion on the same page are possibilities. Beeblebrox ( talk) 19:13, 13 February 2013 (UTC) |
If an editing in good standing closes an RFC, and there is no evidence the editor was involved in prior discussion:
I think you are asking about non admin closures in the first question? If so, the current practice would seem to be "it depends", per Wikipedia:Deletion_process#Non-administrators_closing_discussions. As for the second, yes, all admin actions, including closing discussions are subject to review, per WP:ADMIN. - jc37 23:40, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
In a long thread like this it is easy to lose sight of the original questions:
To #1 I would say admins have no special privileges over anyone else in overturning a closure - that it would be better to at least have a discussion somewhere about the close. At RM there is now a formal WP:MRV to review closes, but it is perhaps a bit of a rubber stamp as to date none have been overturned. On the other hand, as to #2, I would suggest that it is always appropriate for a dissenting view to be added (see link for a close with a second opinion), instead of throwing out the first close. That to me would be more orderly. And of course a subsequent RfC can always be opened immediately. I would like to point out that a simple no is better than a long discussion if someone disagrees with reopening a can of worms. So if after a month of discussion about the Beatles vs. The Beatles, if someone reopens an RFC, it should go something like this. RfC Blah blah blah question. Sig of proposer
No. sig and nothing else
It is totally unnecessary and in my view inappropriate to add a thousand words saying things like, we just spent a month discussing this and only a fool would bring this up again so soon, etc. etc. etc. Just a simple no is all that is needed. If there are twenty other yes's and only your no, well what does that say about the decision that was handed down about using the instead of The? If there is only your and one or two other no's, then that is where it will languish. Don't feed the trolls, but don't ignore the issue either. Apteva ( talk) 08:45, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
Non-admin closes would seem to be admin tasks which are being carried out by a non-admin (something that seems rather inherent in the name).
If so, then we can group all non-admin performances of admin-related tasks under the same umbrella. Things like rollback and the others at RfPERM, for example, non admin closes, clerking, and other stuff where non admins help out in admin-related tasks. - jc37 19:46, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
This is the posting I personally sighted (minus last paragraph) 15 days ago, which has disappeared on both RfC pages. Talk now spans 28 October - 4 December.
There are too many RfCs (well I think so, do others?).
I propose, in the interest of reducing gratuitous RfCs and maybe getting better prepared RfC questions, that an RfC mst be seconded by a second user in good standing.
(Only if this proves contentious, should this question go to RfC).
-- SmokeyJoe ( talk) 04:02, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
Please see Template talk:RFC list footer. Viriditas ( talk) 01:53, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
I'm not sure if I should be asking the question, below, on WP:RFC/USER, DNR, on ANI, on Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard, or somewhere else. If I've posted this in the wrong location then tell me and read no further. Please advise.
There is an active DNR RfC, "talk:Paul Krugman", in process, and I filed the RfC and am a participant in the discussion.
I have, for some time, been attempting to obtain clarification about the RfC, asking *repeatedly*, whether claims of POV are, or are not, within the scope of this RfC. I have explained that if a finding of NPOV violation is sustained, then most the the dispute goes away.
All I'm asking for is a simple declarative sentence, from an authoritative person, that says either "POV accusations *are* within the scope of this RfC" or, alternatively, "POV accusations *are not* within the scope of this RfC". I haven't received a clear answer.
In response to my POV scope clarification issue questions, user:Amadscientist, the facilitator of the RfC, has responded with the accusation that I am "Wikilawyering".
I acknowledge that, when I filed the RfC on the topic of a single specific disputed edit -- if I knew *then* what I know *now* -- I would have directed the issue to Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard. In my defense, I started asking my POV scope clarification question at the start of the RfC discussion.
The dispute about Paul Krugman, spans the RfC and [talk:Krugman]; it is voluminous, overlapping, painful, involving many parties, and has been occurring for weeks. A disposition of the POV violation claims would do much to reduce the noise level.
If my description, above, is viewed to be incomplete I will willing add quote and citations. Let me know.
How should I proceed on this matter? Deicas ( talk) 01:45, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
As someone who has had a user rfc I can testify it is extremely stressful - I recently tried to close one that was not attracting much attention at all and was reverted with comments of, its ok , RFC users can stay open till resolved ... this seems undue to me - as I remember a month used to be considered reasonable - if users have not commented after a month then there is no immediate issue - I would like to get this clarified - its unreasonable to insist on keeping a RFC user open for lengthy periods, and IMO unduly attacking - one month is plenty and if that is not clear in the guidelines then we need to make that clear - Youreally can 05:57, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
If no additional complaints are registered for an extended period of time, and the dispute appears to have stopped. From the main page, such RfC/Us are typically "delisted due to inactivity."
The dispute proceeds to another method of dispute resolution, such as mediation or arbitration.
The parties and/or participants to the dispute agree (via a motion on the talk page of that rFc/u)."
There has been a discussion at Talk:The Big Bang Theory regarding changes to the article that has been going on since 5 January. This has now led to an RfC. However, the editor who opened the RfC has been a persistent problem, editing the article continuously while discussion is underway, without consensus, despite numerous requests and even warnings on his talk page not to do so, as it muddies the waters. This behaviour has continued into the RfC. Since opening the RfC he has made edits to the article, [9] and consequently has had to amend his proposal after two editors have already responded. [10] These changes have included collapsing the comments made by others so they are not immdeiately visible, hiding them under an inaccurate heading in the {{ collapse top}} template. [11] His latest response at the discussion makes it clear that he believes that editors who have already replied should amend their responses to cater for his changes. [12] Based on his editing history at the article, I expect this sort of thing to continue, making the RfC a completely useless mess. I'm hoping that editors familiar with the RfC process could have a look at the article and make comment on the way the RfC process should be conducted so that this RfC can be of some use. -- AussieLegend ( ✉) 16:34, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
I have a long standing conduct dispute regarding Arthur Rubin...but I don't have another editor to post on his talk page...therefore my dispute does not meet the minimum requirements to request for comments on his conduct. I posted on the DRN but was sent here. So does anybody have any suggestions for the steps that I might take to try and resolve the conflict? Thanks. -- Xerographica ( talk) 12:02, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
Regarding the instructions for endorsements, {Anyone is welcome to endorse this or any other view, but do not change other people's views. RFC/U does not accept "opposes" or "anti-endorsements"; the fact that you do not endorse a view indicates that you do not entirely agree with it. Discussion of this view or other people's endorsements belongs on the talk page, not in this section.} — When I read this, it looked like it was instructing editors to endorse the view only if they entirely agreed with it, which seems to be setting the bar too high. Specifically, my comment is directed towards the part that says, "the fact that you do not endorse a view indicates that you do not entirely agree with it." -- Bob K31416 ( talk) 12:38, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
Is there any generally accepted idea about how much time should pass between the closure of an RfC and the opening of a new RfC on essentially the same issue? Should there be some kind of statute of limitations, a reasonable time interval such as a year or 6 months, before discussion over the same issues is relaunched? The question comes up in relation to this discussion, which quickly became a discussion about the addition of state names to US cities. That same issue had been thoroughly discussed very recently in the same venue. The earlier discussion, which ran to more than 200,000 bytes and garnered 58 !votes, ran from November 4 to November 24 and was closed as "maintain status quo". The new discussion was launched just six weeks later, on January 8. Some editors have asked that the new discussion be shut down because the previous discussion was so recent, while others are insisting that it be thoroughly discussed again. I'm asking here, not about this one issue in particular but on discussions in general: should there be some kind of "grace period," after the closure of a discussion, before an issue is reopened? How do people feel about that? -- MelanieN ( talk) 22:16, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
For a RfCU that I've been participating in, certifying editors and the subject of the RfCU are discussing fairness in notification, and it'd be helpful to hear some outside perspectives on this process question. See Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User conduct/Assistance#Question about inviting editors to the drafting process and Wikipedia talk:Canvassing#What.27s considered a fair notification vs convassing.3F for noticeboard questions that involved users have posted, and see Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/Cantaloupe2#Cantaloupe2.27s concerns about selective notification for the relevant section of the RfCU talk page. This is just an invitation for extra eyes in a place where hopefully more editors will see it, since the RfCU assistance board and Canvassing talk page seem to tend to be quiet. Thanks! Dreamyshade ( talk) 01:30, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
Just in case anyone is still watching, I have just closed the "Review" RFC that was here a few months ago, it is at Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/Archive 12#Review. Beeblebrox ( talk) 19:18, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
-- TonyTheTiger ( T/ C/ BIO/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:FOUR) 07:37, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
Could someone close my RFC at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disambiguation#2nd order disambiguation by birth date - RFC. I seem to have defined the wrong scope of the issue and posted it at the wrong page. I would like to withdraw my RFC nomination.-- TonyTheTiger ( T/ C/ BIO/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:FOUR) 18:59, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
I request uninvolved parties to kindly look into the matter Shabiha ( talk) 22:19, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
Input is needed at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Conflict_Resolution#How_is_this_project_different_from_Dispute_Resolution_project to determine if a new project (and perhaps a new DR process) is needed. -- Noleander ( talk) 19:15, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
The bot never added my RfC. It can be found, here. Casprings ( talk) 04:08, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
I'm involved in a dispute at WP:Spelling. The other party says that because the RfC has generated no consensus (It hasn't been thirty days but it's been a while), then the original text must be restored. That doesn't sound so unreasonable, but the version that the other party maintains is the "original" contains said other party's changes but not mine. Is revert-to-original the rule? If so, which version of the text counts as the original? The version that was there before either of us started changing the page or a version from some other point in time? Levels heads would be welcome, but clarifying the rule would certainly help. Darkfrog24 ( talk) 05:35, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
TenPoundHammer wrote within my summary at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Jax 0677. Can I have an uninvolved admin remove this text, which has been placed on the talk page? -- Jax 0677 ( talk) 18:51, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
How do we extend an RFC beyond 30 days?-- TonyTheTiger ( T/ C/ BIO/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:FOUR) 04:38, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Is there any sort of template/hatnote that can be placed at the top of an article to notify editors of an ongoing RfC? I know there's a list of ways to advertise an RfC, but such a notice seems like it would be the most effective way to get interested editors involved. Mbinebri talk ← 17:48, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
Some months ago, after a lengthy discussion, we had a RfC about different collages illustrating the article about Istanbul (at that time FAC, and now FA, but not yet on the main page). At the end, consensus was reached. Now, after barely 4 months, another user opened a new RfC about the same collage. The pictures that he wants to be removed are the same which were in discussion 4 months ago. Should we have a permanent thread on the Talk page about this collage? My opinion is that in this case there is a misuse of this instrument, at least until a totally new collage will be prepared and discussed. Would it not be possible to define under which circumstances an RfC about the same subject can be started again? Thanks, Alex2006 ( talk) 07:00, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
Is some bot stopped thanks? I set up Talk:Flag_of_Northern_Ireland#RfC: Should the Flag of Northern Ireland article show the flag of Ireland? two days ago and it still isn't listed at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Politics, government, and law. Dmcq ( talk) 14:07, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
==RfC: Is the photo in the History section relevant?==
{{rfc|hist}}
Should the "History" section contain a photograph of the ship? ~~~~
Only the last line goes on Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/History_and_geography and thus must contain a full description of what comments are being requested on. WykiP ( talk) 13:29, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
I don't know if this is the right place to report a problem with an RfC, but the Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Wikipedia technical issues and templates page is not rendering correctly. The wikitable is not being displayed, at least for me. Jonesey95 ( talk) 03:51, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
Additions are in the third step in italics. Nothing else has been changed. Changes are to prevent newcomers to the RfC process ending up with a non-descriptive on a RfC list that cannot be corrected because the bots revert all changes on those pages. WykiP ( talk) 17:11, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
~~~~
(name and date) or ~~~~~
(just the date) ...
WykiP (
talk) 22:17, 27 April 2013 (UTC)In an of 11:31, 9 April 2013 (UTC), marked as "Maintenance", the RFC bot deleted the text field of the rfcquote template for the RfC about the Sazerac Company. So now there is no mention on the RfC page of the issue involved in the request. I left a note on the Talk page of the RFC bot itself, but have not gotten a response. Is there a way to fix that? — BarrelProof ( talk) 02:13, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
I am not sure of the correct protocol to list Talk:List_of_gymnasts#A_further_reorganisation_is_tempting_.28now_with_added_RfC.21.29, and would appreciate someone versed in doing so to pick this up, please. Fiddle Faddle ( talk) 19:07, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
I was just wondering why the two RfCs at BP were removed from this page. One was prematurely archived and restored, but the other is still very much active. [13] Can they be restored? I notice that the RfC bot removed them even though they are fairly recent RfCs and their thirty-day period has not yet expired. Coretheapple ( talk) 19:16, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
Just a procedural question ... if a user has voiced their opinion !vote twice on a single RfC, I was wondering what is the standard process? Ask the user to merge them into a single entry? Strike through the second entry? Just leave it and hope whomever closes it spots that there are multiples? I'm not frequently following any particular RfCs, so not sure of the standard established practice, and didn't see anything on this page for guidance. --- Barek ( talk • contribs) - 00:54, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
!=
means not equal. ---
Barek (
talk •
contribs) - 15:54, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
The correct answer to this question is that !votes are not actually votes (which is why this most bothersome of terms, properly understood by approximately nobody in the community, should be retired). If someone makes two comments, and they are contradictory, the appropriate response is to treat them as if the editor had provided a pro and con argument. Obviously comments which do not provide an argument at all should be ignored entirely as usual. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) ( talk) 12:51, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | Archive 14 | Archive 15 |
Having tried to use RFCs in an area of heavy nationalist dispute and seen them used by others in similar situations, I found that the process was utterly useless. The main problem was that as soon as one was opened, all the involved editors on both sides show up with their predictable responses. Any genuinely neutral outsiders (and there are frequently none) are drowned out and the RFC descends into the same farce it was meant to overcome.
Having given this some thought, I considered there could be a few ways of solving this issue:
No doubt this will be shot down in flames, but given the current situation where either small inside groups with the same POV can dominate RFCs, or two balanced inside groups can spin them into thousands of words of text without resolving anything, I think some action is required to ensure outside views are able to make an impact. Number 5 7 00:29, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
I agree with user:Number_57 in that RfC's are meant to draw outside input and insiders are overly involved. Insiders engaging in a discussion under the RfC banner defeats the purpose of the RfC by discouraging outsider comment. Insider comments should take place elsewhere on the talk page so as to not discourage outsiders from sharing their opinions.
I also agree with user:Jojalozzo in that involved editors have developed opinions that are important to the discussion. But again, that discussion belongs on the talk page, and not in a section dedicated to securing outside comments. I think many RfC's provide an opportunity for a fresh start in a discussion that has failed to reach consensus, but that fresh start discussion should take place away from the section where outside users are trying to provide neutral comments. To reiterate an RfC section is for comments, a talk page is for discussion.
I think the problem that Number_57 is getting at is the difficulty of the discussions that come out of the RfC process. I have noticed that often there are too many editors in a discussion for a fruitful discussion to take place and that the RfC contributors often provide non-neutral comments. Inherently an RfC banner can cause or worsen the problem of too many cooks. I think it would be helpful to recommend for the removal of a RfC banner in cases where it hampers the consensus process. Any thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnathlon ( talk • contribs) 19:01, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
At Talk:Demi Moore#A specific proposal, three of the four remaining editors after weeks of debate have agreed to a wording. Here is a copy of my post there today saying that I would like to have an admin give "a disinterested outside opinion" on whether consensus had, in fact been reached.
Three editors — myself, AndyTheGrump and λόγος — have agreed on a wording ... bridging, may I say, significant differences over a large amount of time and effort in order to reach a good-faith compromise together. At this point, I think it's fair to go to the RfC noticeboard for this item and ask if an admin would look at this and offer a disinterested outside opinion.
Here again is Andy's wording, which has garnered support from λόγος and myself:
"Some sources give Moore's birth name as Demetria,[4 representative footnotes] others as Demi[Stuart's 4 representative footnotes]. Moore says the latter is correct.[2 tweets plus Bang Showbiz]."?
-- Tenebrae ( talk) 20:00, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
Would an admin please come and close this RfC? Debate has died down, consensus seems clear, and it is time to move on. See Talk:2011#Request_for_Comment:_Mohamed_Bouazizi_and_the_Occupy_movement_additions. Wrad ( talk) 17:42, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
There's a question at WP:AN today about suspending an RFC/U due to the subject saying that he's leaving Wikipedia. This comes up maybe twice a year, usually in the context of worries about someone trying to game the system by taking a wikibreak and hoping that no one will care if they come back next month, but sometimes due to temporary circumstances, like someone getting blocked for a week over something unrelated. (It seems unfair and ineffective to continue dispute resolution when the subject can't participate.)
I thought it might be worth briefly describing how to "suspend" an RFC/U, but I can't decide where to put the information. Maybe at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User conduct/Closing or at Wikipedia:RFC/U#Closing_and_archiving? And should it get an entry in the archives or not? WhatamIdoing ( talk) 17:40, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents has been nominated for deletion. Please join the discussion. A Quest For Knowledge ( talk) 17:02, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
The current RfC/U on Fae is one of a long line of big, ugly, unproductive affairs that can't stay on topic (doesn't really have a topic) and doesn't know when to end. I think we need to reform the RfC/U process. Heck, I'm thinking maybe RfC/U belongs at MfD. It's a page that doesn't accomplish anything but raising a lot of hard feelings. But I think a few simple Human Rights for Editors might fix much of the problem.
I'm not sure this list of rights is enough, but it's a start. Wnt ( talk) 13:45, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
I just added a second topic to the {{ rfc}} template at Talk:Richard Dawkins. Will the bot pick up on this? [1] __ meco ( talk) 13:43, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
I think it would be quite helpful if the instructions on the RfC asked people to provide source and brief summaries for content disputes in RfC. To many times I see an RfC such as "Was Jesus a Palestinian?" and nothing but opinions in the following 500 lines. RfC's would be much easier to respond to if there was a reserved section for sources and summaries AND people were advised to fill out these sections when starting the RfC. Gsonnenf ( talk) 11:12, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
Just noting here that the RfC posting tool seems to be dead. EyeSerene talk 12:50, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
I recently added an RFC request to Talk:Talbot Hobbs#Effect of the redevelopment plans, and RFC bot appears to have processed my request. However the article doesn't seem to appear on either of the requested lists: Biographies and Politics/govt/law. Is there a technical problem with the bot? Mitch Ames ( talk) 09:54, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
wht do you think other countries within SSA view South Africa and South African Businesses.Do you belive they trust us and can do business or merely see us a MINI colonisers of the continent — Preceding unsigned comment added by NM-Ntuli ( talk • contribs) 13:22, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
We have thousands of subpages, and no categorisation scheme. I can appreciate that we may not want to categorise RFC/U, however there are many other types of RFCs which are given a dedicated RFC subpage. In May 2009, the issue of categorisation/archiving of RFCs was raised. Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_comment/Archive_10#Archive_of_past_RfCs. We have an archive of Wikipedia:Centralized discussion ( Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Archive); does it include all subpages?
For the moment, I've placed a few RFCs in Category:Wikipedia Arbitration Committee archives and . John Vandenberg ( chat) 07:23, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
How does one close an RFC? My RFC was delisted by the bot, but now what?-- Taylornate ( talk) 04:17, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
You can just leave it, or consider using {{ discussion top}}. If it is likely to be a contentious summary ask at WP:ANI for an independent administrator to close and summarise the RfC. -- PBS ( talk) 09:34, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
The Wikipedia:Requests for comment/COI, which was requested by the Arbitration Committee, has essentially been inactive for a week. It will be a messy RfC to close, but I think it is quite important that somebody do it correctly. Smallbones ( talk) 03:09, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
Does the process described for requesting comment on users apply to a an editor using an IP address? If not, what process does apply? Jc3s5h ( talk) 18:41, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
Is RfC only for requesting more opinions during a dispute, or can it be used when nobody responds to a talk page discussion and being bold would be inappropriate. Ryan Vesey Review me! 01:09, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
This was added by Moff Wolf ( talk · contribs) Left a message on his talk page - Is it a misplaced RfC? |
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The following discussion has been closed by Coastside. Please do not modify it. |
Durban University of Technology's students are complaining about NSFAS, Student accomodation, and the way they are treated by lectures some students believe that Apartheid was not accomplished on the 27th of April but instead it was only the beging they even mentioned racial prejudisim has started to become a huge matter at DUT never the less some studentes are happy to be at DUT. Early this year SASCO(which is the organisation that fights for students rights) dicided to go on strik because they were not happy about the dicision that was taken by NSFAS thing, they said to believe that SRC is sleeping with the managnment of DUT for something in return and they have forgoten about student who they represent as the SRC. the president of SASCO at DUT said they do not mean any bad thing about protesting they only want their voices to be heard by the managnment of DUT and he said he will do anything for his students to get a better education. NSFAS was blamed by many students because it did not providing tuition funds to them early. |
Coastside ( talk) 20:21, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
moved to Talk:Wisconsin_gubernatorial_recall_election#Intrade |
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The following discussion has been closed by Coastside. Please do not modify it. |
Protaganists state (Should be included) because:
Antagonists state (Should not be included) because:
Talk page is located at the Talk:Wisconsin_gubernatorial_recall_election,_2012 talk page, under Intrade [ [2]] Patriot1010 ( talk) 18:33, 4 June 2012 (UTC) |
Coastside ( talk) 21:13, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
Not the right page to post RfCs |
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The following discussion has been closed by Coastside. Please do not modify it. |
Crime Story (film) is being maliciously edited in spite of my providing sources for no good reason Dwanyewest ( talk) 21:39, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
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Coastside ( talk) 15:18, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
Not the right page to post RfCs |
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The following discussion has been closed by Coastside. Please do not modify it. |
The issue is involving a dispute over what flags should be used in the template, the two flags have political connotations, and we need help on achieving either a compromise, or something because the users there including me are getting very frustrated with each other. The issue is here. [3]
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Coastside ( talk) 15:23, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The WT:Requests for comment/Request board page says "Requests made on this board will be transferred to the appropriate place by a volunteer." It seems some RFCs are old. What's going on? Are there not enough volunteers to move these RFCs? Would it be helfpul to run through these and move them all? Coastside ( talk) 08:19, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
When you add an RfC to the Request for comment noticeboard (or simply edit the page), there is an edit notice that includes the following:
"If you know exactly which page the discussion should take place on, it is preferred that you use the RfC posting tool."
Clicking on that link results in a 403 error (User account has expired for user messedrocker)
Anyone know who is responsible for the RfC posting tool or this edit notice? Coastside ( talk) 14:48, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
I have added an exception in a footnote to allow an RFC to be used in the case where a user has made a good-faith effort to get another editor to discuss an edit, but has received no response. All content dispute resolution processes require discussion before requesting DR and requests are routinely dismissed or closed if no discussion has taken place. Failure to respond to a request to discuss is not defined as disruptive editing, so an editor faced with continual reversions despite his or her requests to discuss the proposed edits must either edit war or give up. Regards, TransporterMan ( TALK) 18:02, 30 May 2012 (UTC) PS: Prior to this overall revision in 2006 the requirement was that one must "try" to discuss the matter before filing an RFC. This revision, in effect, restores that qualification. — TM 18:05, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
Requested an RFC for this page a few days ago and haven't had a response from an outside editor yet (by outside, I mean someone who has never contributed edits to this page). If someone could take a look and leave some comments, that would be great. JDC808 ( talk) 02:10, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
I have some text I would like to insert into the Vassula Ryden article, under the Supporters section based on an excerpt of a book. The text in the book appears as follows:
The late Archbishop Franic of Split, for years the head of the Yugoslav Catholic Bishops’ Conference and an expert on mystical phenomena, wrote strongly in favor of Ryden. He expressed the astonishment shared by many theologians and church leaders who cannot understand how a normal woman who never received theological training can write down messages whose beauty and profundity stand out among contemporary spiritual writings. [1]
The book an approved RS on the RSN. I would like to know - how I can insert the information quoted above, without infringing on copyright policy? Do I reword the text? Do I say "Hvidt (the author) claims"? Whats the normal way to go about quoting a source? Thanks. Arkatakor ( talk) 16:22, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
i am currently putting the finishing touches to a request for comment for the article Rangers F.C
so my questions
firstly the request for comment outcome will affect the decision on about 50+ articles as they need to be edited to convey teh same information. so do i need ot put the request for ocmment on them all?
secondly the content dispute is quite a serious one in teh fact nither side is willign to back down, so i am hoping outside input will help, but i am hoping to amke it like Request for ADminship that to say there consensus something like 75% of the response to each question must be for one side of the the question or the other ie agree or disagree before a consensus coudl be said has been reached am i allowed ot do this>?-- Andrewcrawford ( talk - contrib) 22:46, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
I signed of for the feedback request service, asking for RfCs in the areas of maths, science, and technology. I specifically do not want to see Rfcs on politics. Why am I being asked to comment on Talk:Barack Obama on Twitter? How is that a math, science, or technology issue? If Barack Obama uses a telephone, that doesn't make the topic telecommunications. If he drives a car, that does not make the topic highway engineering. If he flies in an airplane, that does not make the topic aerospace.
If a human is sorting these into categories, they really need to not tag something like Talk:Barack Obama on Twitter as a maths, science, and technology RfC. If it's an algorithm that is doing the tagging, it needs tweaking. -- Guy Macon ( talk) 20:17, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
Two people at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Bittergrey have made talk page comments indicating that they're uncertain about RFC/U procedural issues. It might be good if one of the experienced hands would keep an eye on it and answer any procedural questions that come up. I'd offer to do it myself, but I may decide to be an active participant rather than a process gnome for this one. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 01:13, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
WP:Requests for comment/Youreallycan needs help ASAP. It's got threaded comments throughout, including edit-warring to keep such comments in the section reserved for the exclusive use of the subject's response [4] [5] [6], as well as multiple sections for people to oppose views. I think that this needs multiple people helping the participants read and follow the directions, or we're going to end up with an RFC/U that requires full protection (thus making it useless for resolving the dispute). WhatamIdoing ( talk) 01:02, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
In various discussions (including several RFC/U's) I have seen the opinion expressed that RFC/U's are useless and a waste of time. From my observation of several "high-profile" RFC/U's that would appear to be the case, based on the fact that the inevitable outcome of the RFC/U seems to be that there is then a request for arbitration. I am wondering whether there are any actual statistics on this, in other words, what percentage of RFC/U's result in a "resolution" of the dispute over the user's conduct, and what percentage are followed closely (say, within 6 months) by a request for arbitration. Neutron ( talk) 17:32, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
Nobody answered my last question, so maybe somebody (or nobody) will answer this one: The rules about RFC/U's say: "Any RfC not accompanied by evidence showing that two users tried and failed to resolve the same dispute may be deleted after 48 hours as "uncertified"." On some RFC/U pages (and their talk pages) there has been some discussion of whether a certifier was involved in "the same dispute" with the subject as the initiator of the RFC/U was. But why does this requirement exist at all? If someone is involved in many different disputes with many different editors, but no "second person" desires to certify the RFC/U with regard to a specific dispute, why can't the RFC/U proceed. There is one going on now where it is obvious that literally dozens if not hundreds of editors have had some interaction with the subject, which they believe warrants some sort of sanction. And the subject has been blocked multiple times for various conduct. Should that not be enough? Obviously there is reason, in that case, to invite comments about the user in order to inform him/her of ways in which he/she can be a "good citizen", and if the advice is not accepted, the next step can be arbitration. But as it is now, if an RFC/U is closed because the "second certifier" could not be found, even though there are many people who have had disputes with the person, when it gets to arbitration, ArbCom is likely to decline the request because there was no RFC. This sounds like a "dispute aggravation process" rather than a "dispute resolution process" to me. How about eliminating the requirement that the "second certifier" be involved in "the same dispute", and just change it to "a dispute with the same editor"? And, by the way, despite my use of an unspecified example above (the identity of which is probably clear), I have no dog in that fight, or any other that is going on. I just want the process to be better. Neutron ( talk) 21:21, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
I'm dealing with a situation and have been looking for guidance how best to deal with non-neutrality in RfC statements. Obviously it would be best of the RfC had been mutually written by those in disagreement to arrive at neutral language, but that doesn't always happen.
So specifically with talk page RfCs does WP:Neutrality override WP:TPO in an RfC or can we add something that gives some emphasis how important neutral language is so that rewording by others may be needed to have a balance statement(s) to operate from for a healthy discussion? And what is the best process to approach that rewording? Insomesia ( talk) 23:18, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
Now let's start talking about the issues that make it "a bit more complicated than that":
So there are times when you have to change an RFC question, or substitute a brief one above the existing long one. I'm not sure that we really want to have a long section on all the details and complications as part of this page. What's the minimum amount of information that would be useful? WhatamIdoing ( talk) 21:53, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
In the past I had had similar problems with an AfD (See here), there was no statement for why it should be deleted, so some were of the opinion to keep for the technical reason of no AfD statement. One of those in favour of keeping (for other reasons) argued that retroactively putting a statement at the top was a breach of the AfD procedure..... Anyway although the points raised above are valid, I do not think that putting a statement in chronological order somewhere on the page about the content of the wording of the RfC or the AfD or whatever is a sensible solution to such a problem, the content of the debate should be about the proposed RfC issue raised in the nomination not the content of the nomination. Instead I propose that there is a subsection/area for alternative nominations placed intimately after nomination. In this reserved area (whether it is a formal subsection can be debated further) other editors can place one alternative nomination statement (not criticisms of the nomination and no right to make a second statement or any comments in this area). This would address the issue, with little change in the current process or customs regarding the refactoring of other editors comments.
This is copy (with modifications) based on the layout used "Request comment on users". -- PBS ( talk) 08:52, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
I've boldly added (wording from section above this one)
to the section on Suggestions for responding. Insomesia ( talk) 20:01, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
There doesn't appear to be any way of reviewing archived RfC's by topic, only users. How can this be fixed? Viriditas ( talk) 20:43, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
The "Ending" section seems to be missing a lot of important guidance. It should plainly state things like:
My point is that the "Ending" section in this guideline is not very helpful to editors, particularly inexperienced editors. I'm not saying that all of the above bulleted items are accepted policy by the WP community: I'm just using them as examples of the nature of guidance that should be provided to editors. Therefore, I propose improving the "Ending" section by adding material similar to that listed above. [Note to other editors: feel free to amend the above bullet list to improve it using strikeouts etc]. Thoughts? -- Noleander ( talk) 22:01, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
The section title "Request comment through talk pages" seems like it could be better. The parallel section is "Request comment on users", which is a good title. The title "Request comment through talk pages" is emphasizing where the request is made, rather than what the request is about. I suggest changing the title to
Thoughts? -- Noleander ( talk) 14:15, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
I've seen several similar RfC's created over the past few weeks relating to the SPLC naming organizations hate groups. Without commenting on the content of these RfCs, some of the are being created without any discussion first. Others seem to be taking an attempt at two bites of the apple. Has this issue been addressed before?
little green rosetta
(talk)
central scrutinizer 03:01, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
I notice that there is an RfC Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Categorization of persons which does not utilize an RfC template, and hence is not listed in the RfC lists. Contrasted with, say, Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Education Program extension, which does use an RfC template. I suppose there is no requirement that an RfC template be used, but it seems odd to omit it. Should some guidance be added to the RfC guideline to address the possibility of omitting an RfC template? Or should the RfC guideline continue to suggest that the template is the standard approach (and treat missing templates as an aberration). -- Noleander ( talk) 15:14, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
If you look at Talk:Texas Revolution#Threaded discussion, this appears to be an RfC discussion and people say they were led to the discussion by the RfCbot, but I can't find an official RfC nor was this ever closed. I'd reopen it if I could figure out how to do it, because it is clearly unresolved and articles are still using both Texian and Texan. Thanks. Dougweller ( talk) 09:17, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
Should we be clearer about the standard practices for multi-author "questions"? Sometimes the wording of a question is hashed out in advance, in which case the following seem to be generally true:
What do you think? WhatamIdoing ( talk) 15:25, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
Low-participation RFCs on talk pages with quick archiving rules fairly often get archived before the 30-day bot period. The RFC bot copes gracefully with this, but it seems to surprise some of the editors. On the assumption that no one is planning to re-write the talk page archiving bots to skip sections containing RFC templates, should we maybe mention the possibility of an aggressive archiving timeline resulting in short discussions? Or is it too much instruction creep? WhatamIdoing ( talk) 01:22, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
{{subst:DNAU|<integer>}}
(where "integer" stands for a number of days) to the top of the RfC. See
Template:Do not archive until.
SlimVirgin
(talk) 23:22, 19 September 2012 (UTC)I filed this RFC yesterday but the bot has not listed it at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Media, the arts, and architecture. Can this be corrected please. Betty Logan ( talk) 13:17, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
Sorry about that. Another RfC was breaking RFCbot, and basically it was crashing before it was able to list your RfC. It should be resolved now. -- Chris 08:53, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
I was selected for "request of comment". What is that? DEIDRA C. ( talk) 21:19, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
Hi WhatamIdoing, can you direct me to the discussion you referred to when you reverted? [7] The problem with your edit is you seem to be changing the description of an RfC to anyone can close it at any time, and this just isn't how they normally work. Advising people that that's okay is likely to lead to problems. SlimVirgin (talk) 21:28, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
I'll post the four versions below for comparison. Basically, my objection is that the new versions are too wordy and repetitive, and that they give a misleading impression that anyone may close an RfC at any time, when in fact doing that often leads to problems. For example, if the originator of an RfC (or anyone else) tried to close it after a couple of days while people were still commenting, s/he would be reverted, so there's no point in adding to the guideline that it's okay to do that. SlimVirgin (talk) 23:00, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
Version at 07:37, 27 June 2012 (before recent changes) | Version at 20:36, 11 September 2012 |
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RfCs that are listed by the RfC bot are also automatically de-listed by the RfC bot after 30 days (calculated from the first timestamp after the RfC template). Thirty days is the default length, but there is no required minimum or maximum length. If consensus has been reached before 30 days, the RfC nominator(s) can remove the RfC tag, and the bot will remove the discussion from the list on its next run. If further time is wanted, editors can change the first timestamp to a more recent date, which will prevent the bot from removing the listing. Manually added RfCs must be manually closed. This is accomplished by deleting the text that you added from the RfC page. All requests for comment on a user need to be closed manually. This should be done by an uninvolved editor (not necessarily an admin) when the dispute has been resolved, moved to any other forum, or seems unlikely to be resolved.
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The default duration of a RfC is 30 days, but there is no minimum or maximum length. The RfC bot will automatically remove a RfC from the list of active RfCs after 30 days, measured from the first timestamp within the talk page RfC section. If a RfC discussion concludes before 30 days, and there is no objection to closing the RfC, you can manually close the RfC by deleting the RfC template, {{
rfc}}, from the talk page RfC section (then the RfC bot will remove the RfC from the active RfC list on its next run). If more than 30 days are required, change the first timestamp within the talk page RfC section to a more recent date. The originator of a RfC can close the RfC at any time if they feel the issue has been addressed, or if they no longer have a need for outside input. Other editors, in that situation, can continue the discussion without a RfC, or start a new RfC. Editors other than the originator should not close a RfC if the discussion is ongoing or if there is an objection from other participants. Normally, by the end of the discussion, the participants have the information they need and no formal closing process or statement is either necessary or helpful. If the RfC is unusually complex or if the results are disputed, you may ask an uninvolved editor to formally close the discussion. The closing editor will review, summarize, and announce the results of the discussion. Participants may ask any uninvolved, willing editor to close the RfC, or a request can be posted at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure. All requests for comment on a user need to be closed manually. This should be done by an uninvolved editor (not necessarily an admin) when the dispute has been resolved, moved to any other forum, or seems unlikely to be resolved. |
SV's version (21:03, 11 September 2012) | WhatamIdoing's version (21:12, 11 September 2012) |
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RfCs usually last for at least seven days and at most 30. RfCs that are of community-wide importance (such as RfCs that affect key policies) are normally expected to run for 30 days. The RfC bot will automatically remove an RfC from the list of active RfCs after 30 days, measured from the first timestamp within the RfC section. If people have stopped commenting before this time, and if there is no objection to closing the RfC, you can manually close it by deleting the RfC template, {{
rfc}}, from the talk page, and the RfC bot will remove the RfC from the active list on its next run. If more than 30 days are required, change the first timestamp within the talk page RfC section to a more recent date. If by the end of the discussion the consensus is not obvious, or if the issue is a contentious one, you should ask an uninvolved admin or editor to close the discussion, rather than closing it yourself. The closing editor will summarize and announce the results of the discussion. Participants may ask any uninvolved editor to close the RfC, or a request can be posted at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure. |
The default duration of a RfC is 30 days, but there is no minimum or maximum length. The RfC bot will automatically remove a RfC from the list of active RfCs after 30 days, measured from the first timestamp within the talk page RfC section. If a RfC discussion concludes before 30 days, and there is no objection to closing the RfC, you can manually close the RfC by deleting the RfC template, {{
rfc}}, from the talk page RfC section (then the RfC bot will remove the RfC from the active RfC list on its next run). If more than 30 days are required, change the first timestamp within the talk page RfC section to a more recent date. The originator of a RfC can close the RfC at any time if they feel the issue has been addressed, or if they no longer have a need for outside input. Other editors, in that situation, can continue the discussion without a RfC, or start a new RfC. Editors other than the originator should not close a RfC if the discussion is ongoing or if there is an objection from other participants. Normally, by the end of the discussion, the participants have the information they need and no formal closing process or statement is either necessary or helpful. If the RfC is unusually complex or if the results are disputed, you may ask an uninvolved editor to formally close the discussion. The closing editor will review, summarize, and announce the results of the discussion. Participants may ask any uninvolved, willing editor to close the RfC, or a request can be posted at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure. All requests for comment on a user need to be closed manually. This should be done by an uninvolved editor (not necessarily an admin) when the dispute has been resolved, moved to any other forum, or seems unlikely to be resolved. |
I see what you are driving at. How about this:
The default duration of a RfC is 30 days, but there is no minimum or maximum length. The RfC bot will automatically remove a RfC from the list of active RfCs after 30 days, measured from the first timestamp within the talk page RfC section. If a RfC discussion concludes before 30 days, and there is no objection to closing the RfC, you can manually close the RfC by deleting the RfC template, {{ rfc}}, from the talk page RfC section (then the RfC bot will remove the RfC from the active RfC list on its next run). If more than 30 days are required, change the first timestamp within the talk page RfC section to a more recent date.
The originator of a RfC can close the RfC at any time if they feel the issue has been addressed, or if they no longer have a need for outside input. Other editors, in that situation, can continue the discussion without a RfC, or start a new RfC.Editorsother than the originatorshould not close a RfC if the discussion is ongoing or if there is an objection from other participants.Normally, by the end of the discussion, the participants have the information they need and no formal closing process or statement is either necessary or helpful. If the RfC is unusually complex or if the results are disputed, you may ask an uninvolved editor to formally close the discussion. The closing editor will review, summarize, and announce the results of the discussion. Participants may ask any uninvolved, willing editor to close the RfC, or a request can be posted at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure.
All requests for comment on a user need to be closed manually. This should be done by an uninvolved editor (not necessarily an admin) when the dispute has been resolved, moved to any other forum, or seems unlikely to be resolved.
But I'd like to hear WhatAmIDoing's thoughts, since they originally suggested item #11. -- Noleander ( talk) 23:10, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
Noleander, could you say what was unclear, missing or inaccurate in my version above? SlimVirgin (talk) 00:30, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
To try to organize the discussion of possible improvements to the Ending section, here is a numbered list of issues. Feel free to add more:
-- Noleander ( talk) 02:17, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
Here are my thoughts:
Here is another proposal that addresses some of the issues above:
The default duration of a RfC is 30 days, but there is no minimum or maximum length. The RfC bot will automatically remove a RfC from the list of active RfCs after 30 days, measured from the first timestamp within the talk page RfC section. If a RfC discussion concludes before 30 days, and there is no objection to closing the RfC, you can manually close the RfC by deleting the RfC template, {{ rfc}}, from the talk page RfC section (then the RfC bot will remove the RfC from the active RfC list on its next run). If more than 30 days are required, change the first timestamp within the talk page RfC section to a more recent date.
The originator of a RfC can close the RfC at any time if they feel the issue has been addressed, or if they no longer have a need for outside input. Other editors, in that situation, can continue the discussion without a RfC, or start a new RfC.Editorsother than the originatorshould not close a RfC if the discussion is ongoing or if there is an objection from other participants.
Normally, by the end of the discussion, the participants have the information they need and no formal closing process or statement is either necessary or helpful.If the participants in the RfC arrive at a consensus, you may close the RfC by removing the RfC template, or simply by letting the 30 day period elapse. Alternatively, if the RfC is unusually complex or if the results are disputed, you may ask an uninvolved editor to formally close the discussion. The closing editor will review, summarize, and announce the results of the discussion. Participants may ask any uninvolved, willing editor to close the RfC, or a request can be posted at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure.
All requests for comment on a user need to be closed manually. This should be done by an uninvolved editor (not necessarily an admin) when the dispute has been resolved, moved to any other forum, or seems unlikely to be resolved.All requests for comment on a user must be closed following the instructions in WP:RFCU.
I object to these recent changes but when I try to fix them I'm being reverted wholesale, so I've restored the version before the changes began. Article RfCs are the one area of dispute resolution that usually work and are usually drama-free, so I want to make sure this page doesn't give a misleading impression of best practice. And I think, for example, the issue of the originator closing whenever he wants, and not acknowledging that seven days minimum is standard, does give a misleading impression. I also think the wordiness is getting in the way of clarity. SlimVirgin (talk) 23:48, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
It looks like there are still a few open issues:
Any others? -- Noleander ( talk) 23:55, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
Looking at those 3 open issues:
Does that sound like a good plan? -- Noleander ( talk) 15:17, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
It seems to me that this question about how to approach the "OP withdrawing the RfC" situation is a manifestation of a bigger shortcoming in the Ending section: The Ending section has a decent discussion of the mechanisms of closing (remove RfC tag, etc), but not too much on the scenarios which give rise to a close. I think the Ending section should briefly mention a few common situations that lead to a close, perhaps including:
In other words, in addition to listing the mechanisms for closing also give some tutorial guidance to rookie editors on when a close happens. I'm not suggesting that we try to come up with a comprehensive list of every imaginable scenario, but rather that we mention a few of the common ones so rookie editors can read it and think "aha, so that is how it goes!" Thoughts? -- Noleander ( talk) 02:37, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
How and when to close an RfC on an article, policy or guideline is a matter of common sense and context. ... Deciding when to close depends on how much interest there is in the issue, how important it is to the community, whether editors are continuing to comment, and whether further notices should be posted to attract fresh input. RfCs that have been advertised as closing on a certain date should not be closed prematurely.
Any editor can close an RfC when consensus is unambiguous, but if the issue is a contentious one or consensus remains unclear, it is better to ask that an uninvolved admin or editor close it, sum up consensus, and impose the conclusion as appropriate.
If you want something more verbose, I would suggest something like this:
How and when to close an RfC on an article, policy or guideline is a matter of common sense and context. The default duration is 30 days, and a minimum of seven days is standard practice. Deciding when to close depends on how much interest there is in the issue, how important it is to the community, whether editors are continuing to comment, and whether further notices should be posted to attract fresh input. RfCs that have been advertised as closing on a certain date should not be closed prematurely.
Any editor can close an RfC when consensus is unambiguous, but if the issue is a contentious one or consensus remains unclear, it is better to ask that an uninvolved admin or editor close it, sum up consensus, and impose the conclusion as appropriate. Requests for closure can be posted at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure. If protecting or unprotecting a page might be required, or editing through protection, an admin closure is advisable.
To remove an RfC from the active RfC list, remove the RfC template, {{ rfc}}, from the talk page. The RfC bot will automatically remove an RfC from the active RfC list after 30 days, measured from the first timestamp within the RfC section on the talk page. It is unusual to extend an RfC beyond 30 days, but if there are no objections, or if the closer decides to extend it, this can be done by changing the first timestamp to a more recent date.
All requests for comment on a user should be closed in accordance with the instructions at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User conduct/Closing.
SlimVirgin (talk) 01:33, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
This seems like it should be pretty obvious. I would like to add verbage to the section that editing of a disputed section under RfC is prohibitted during the RfC. Since the RfC is a dispute resolution process, it seems quite stupid to allow editors to come into an RfC before it is closed, make a ruling and then edit based off what they think is the current trend.
Arzel ( talk) 16:57, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
Typically these testimonies, which include nothing but a vague description, are done by non-doctors making the diagnosis. [2] The verification process requires the contact information for three people (one a member of "The Mother Church") who "have either witnessed the healing or can vouch for its accuracy based on their knowledge of [the testifier]," [2] according to the Christian Science Publishing Society website. [3]
According to Stephen Barrett of Quackwatch (2009), most of these accounts contain little detail, and many of the diagnoses are made without medical consultation. [2] However, verification of an account of a healing is required before before its publication. This requires the contact information for three people (one a member of "The Mother Church") who "have either witnessed the healing or can vouch for its accuracy based on their knowledge of [the testifier]," [2] according to the Christian Science Publishing Society website. [3]
I might add that my version of Barrett’s article is more accurate, since it involves all but a direct quote.
Please let me know what you think. Michael J. Mullany ( talk) 03:09, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
(There have been a debate issue about the Chinese Zodiac signs and the Western Horoscope signs, I am going to remove the mythology from the Western Horoscope signs due to WP:BOLLOCKS. I went to the page protection page and wanted to protect the signs of these zodiac, because they are a reliable source to Eastern values and they constantly being vandalized by IP's and one user believes it's "crap" which is unethical of the user, I want the share of the same values with the Western Horoscope signs, because they both are psuedoscience source, but mainly from mythological sources and I am hoping to keep them as they were for mythological purposes, I tried hard in to protecting these articles and allowed the IP who helped. Yes, to some it may be fiction, but it is mythology to another nations heritage and I don't want another horoscope deleted while the other is better, please at protect these pages and the Western Astrology signs for the WP:RS is pertains to mythology. One administrator will be deleting the revisions. Although, I believe it was reliable to mythological uses, and not from another user unethical reason of "Pure Crap".
Yes, fiction, pertaining to mythology, but it doesn't need deletion, and at least if there is any way to the informative sentences. Western Astrology already had mythology sections, and Chinese Zodiac signs as well, but since it is going to be deleted I suggest removing the mythology from the Western Horoscope. I want to work for both sources from mythology, and it is not just Bollocks, but since this occurred I would go on and remove it from the Western Horoscope, although both sources were fact from their mythology, and there are IPs who do mess with one culture to another. I would like to build more on the Chinese Zodiac the sources of mythology and its heritage it pertains to their countries values about mythology and folkore.-- GoShow (............................) 16:57, 13 October 2012 (UTC))
In the Publicizing an RfC section, what is the bullet point Talk pages of editors you randomly select from Feedback Request Service (my emphasis) supposed to mean? From the context, I presume this sentence doesn't refer to the Bot notification. Confused, — MistyMorn ( talk) 16:06, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
I have listed an RfC under "Certified" however I am not sure if it should be listed under "General" due to the wording in the project page. The RfC in question is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/RidjalA Is it currently in the right place? Fordx12 ( talk) 16:57, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
Can someone take a look at Talk:Rape and pregnancy controversies in the 2012 United States elections ? There's an open RFC here, but it is occurring in a closed discussion area... either the RFC is closed improperly, or the discussion is closed improperly. -- 70.24.250.26 ( talk) 07:54, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
For what ever reason, the RFC titled, RfC: Rape and pregnancy controversies in the 2012 United States elections → 2012 Republican rape comment controversies is capturing comments from the conversation below it on the project page. I am not sure how to fix it. Casprings ( talk) 13:43, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
Why isn't Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_College_Basketball#College_basketball_team_season_articles_-_Schedules listed at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/All.-- TonyTheTiger ( T/ C/ BIO/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:FOUR) 05:34, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
Hello, folks! I've joined a few RfC and I dislike the current page format, where sections are named by editor. I think that discussions should be grouped by subject or point. For example, here an editor listed seven arguments. I'd prefer them to be placed each in a separate section, so discussions center on the issues and not on supporting or opposing editors. What do you think about this proposal? -- NaBUru38 ( talk) 18:17, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Well, this is pretty stale and I'm not sure anyone is still watching, but there was a request at
WP:ANRFC to close this, so here goes nothing:
On the question of whether an RFC close by a non-admin can be summarily overturned by an admin, in most cases, no, and never if the only reason is that the closer was not an admin. I don't think we can say there is any iron-clad policy or consensus on this issue, but generally there should be a very good reason for anyone to overturn another users close of an RFC. As to whether consensus can overturn a close, frankly this is a bit of a no-brainer. Consensus can do whatever it damn well pleases and can overturn any action, admin or not, with very, very few exceptions such as office actions. Exactly where the discussion can or should be held is not set in stone, AN, ANI, an appropriate village pump, or even a new discussion on the same page are possibilities. Beeblebrox ( talk) 19:13, 13 February 2013 (UTC) |
If an editing in good standing closes an RFC, and there is no evidence the editor was involved in prior discussion:
I think you are asking about non admin closures in the first question? If so, the current practice would seem to be "it depends", per Wikipedia:Deletion_process#Non-administrators_closing_discussions. As for the second, yes, all admin actions, including closing discussions are subject to review, per WP:ADMIN. - jc37 23:40, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
In a long thread like this it is easy to lose sight of the original questions:
To #1 I would say admins have no special privileges over anyone else in overturning a closure - that it would be better to at least have a discussion somewhere about the close. At RM there is now a formal WP:MRV to review closes, but it is perhaps a bit of a rubber stamp as to date none have been overturned. On the other hand, as to #2, I would suggest that it is always appropriate for a dissenting view to be added (see link for a close with a second opinion), instead of throwing out the first close. That to me would be more orderly. And of course a subsequent RfC can always be opened immediately. I would like to point out that a simple no is better than a long discussion if someone disagrees with reopening a can of worms. So if after a month of discussion about the Beatles vs. The Beatles, if someone reopens an RFC, it should go something like this. RfC Blah blah blah question. Sig of proposer
No. sig and nothing else
It is totally unnecessary and in my view inappropriate to add a thousand words saying things like, we just spent a month discussing this and only a fool would bring this up again so soon, etc. etc. etc. Just a simple no is all that is needed. If there are twenty other yes's and only your no, well what does that say about the decision that was handed down about using the instead of The? If there is only your and one or two other no's, then that is where it will languish. Don't feed the trolls, but don't ignore the issue either. Apteva ( talk) 08:45, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
Non-admin closes would seem to be admin tasks which are being carried out by a non-admin (something that seems rather inherent in the name).
If so, then we can group all non-admin performances of admin-related tasks under the same umbrella. Things like rollback and the others at RfPERM, for example, non admin closes, clerking, and other stuff where non admins help out in admin-related tasks. - jc37 19:46, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
This is the posting I personally sighted (minus last paragraph) 15 days ago, which has disappeared on both RfC pages. Talk now spans 28 October - 4 December.
There are too many RfCs (well I think so, do others?).
I propose, in the interest of reducing gratuitous RfCs and maybe getting better prepared RfC questions, that an RfC mst be seconded by a second user in good standing.
(Only if this proves contentious, should this question go to RfC).
-- SmokeyJoe ( talk) 04:02, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
Please see Template talk:RFC list footer. Viriditas ( talk) 01:53, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
I'm not sure if I should be asking the question, below, on WP:RFC/USER, DNR, on ANI, on Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard, or somewhere else. If I've posted this in the wrong location then tell me and read no further. Please advise.
There is an active DNR RfC, "talk:Paul Krugman", in process, and I filed the RfC and am a participant in the discussion.
I have, for some time, been attempting to obtain clarification about the RfC, asking *repeatedly*, whether claims of POV are, or are not, within the scope of this RfC. I have explained that if a finding of NPOV violation is sustained, then most the the dispute goes away.
All I'm asking for is a simple declarative sentence, from an authoritative person, that says either "POV accusations *are* within the scope of this RfC" or, alternatively, "POV accusations *are not* within the scope of this RfC". I haven't received a clear answer.
In response to my POV scope clarification issue questions, user:Amadscientist, the facilitator of the RfC, has responded with the accusation that I am "Wikilawyering".
I acknowledge that, when I filed the RfC on the topic of a single specific disputed edit -- if I knew *then* what I know *now* -- I would have directed the issue to Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard. In my defense, I started asking my POV scope clarification question at the start of the RfC discussion.
The dispute about Paul Krugman, spans the RfC and [talk:Krugman]; it is voluminous, overlapping, painful, involving many parties, and has been occurring for weeks. A disposition of the POV violation claims would do much to reduce the noise level.
If my description, above, is viewed to be incomplete I will willing add quote and citations. Let me know.
How should I proceed on this matter? Deicas ( talk) 01:45, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
As someone who has had a user rfc I can testify it is extremely stressful - I recently tried to close one that was not attracting much attention at all and was reverted with comments of, its ok , RFC users can stay open till resolved ... this seems undue to me - as I remember a month used to be considered reasonable - if users have not commented after a month then there is no immediate issue - I would like to get this clarified - its unreasonable to insist on keeping a RFC user open for lengthy periods, and IMO unduly attacking - one month is plenty and if that is not clear in the guidelines then we need to make that clear - Youreally can 05:57, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
If no additional complaints are registered for an extended period of time, and the dispute appears to have stopped. From the main page, such RfC/Us are typically "delisted due to inactivity."
The dispute proceeds to another method of dispute resolution, such as mediation or arbitration.
The parties and/or participants to the dispute agree (via a motion on the talk page of that rFc/u)."
There has been a discussion at Talk:The Big Bang Theory regarding changes to the article that has been going on since 5 January. This has now led to an RfC. However, the editor who opened the RfC has been a persistent problem, editing the article continuously while discussion is underway, without consensus, despite numerous requests and even warnings on his talk page not to do so, as it muddies the waters. This behaviour has continued into the RfC. Since opening the RfC he has made edits to the article, [9] and consequently has had to amend his proposal after two editors have already responded. [10] These changes have included collapsing the comments made by others so they are not immdeiately visible, hiding them under an inaccurate heading in the {{ collapse top}} template. [11] His latest response at the discussion makes it clear that he believes that editors who have already replied should amend their responses to cater for his changes. [12] Based on his editing history at the article, I expect this sort of thing to continue, making the RfC a completely useless mess. I'm hoping that editors familiar with the RfC process could have a look at the article and make comment on the way the RfC process should be conducted so that this RfC can be of some use. -- AussieLegend ( ✉) 16:34, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
I have a long standing conduct dispute regarding Arthur Rubin...but I don't have another editor to post on his talk page...therefore my dispute does not meet the minimum requirements to request for comments on his conduct. I posted on the DRN but was sent here. So does anybody have any suggestions for the steps that I might take to try and resolve the conflict? Thanks. -- Xerographica ( talk) 12:02, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
Regarding the instructions for endorsements, {Anyone is welcome to endorse this or any other view, but do not change other people's views. RFC/U does not accept "opposes" or "anti-endorsements"; the fact that you do not endorse a view indicates that you do not entirely agree with it. Discussion of this view or other people's endorsements belongs on the talk page, not in this section.} — When I read this, it looked like it was instructing editors to endorse the view only if they entirely agreed with it, which seems to be setting the bar too high. Specifically, my comment is directed towards the part that says, "the fact that you do not endorse a view indicates that you do not entirely agree with it." -- Bob K31416 ( talk) 12:38, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
Is there any generally accepted idea about how much time should pass between the closure of an RfC and the opening of a new RfC on essentially the same issue? Should there be some kind of statute of limitations, a reasonable time interval such as a year or 6 months, before discussion over the same issues is relaunched? The question comes up in relation to this discussion, which quickly became a discussion about the addition of state names to US cities. That same issue had been thoroughly discussed very recently in the same venue. The earlier discussion, which ran to more than 200,000 bytes and garnered 58 !votes, ran from November 4 to November 24 and was closed as "maintain status quo". The new discussion was launched just six weeks later, on January 8. Some editors have asked that the new discussion be shut down because the previous discussion was so recent, while others are insisting that it be thoroughly discussed again. I'm asking here, not about this one issue in particular but on discussions in general: should there be some kind of "grace period," after the closure of a discussion, before an issue is reopened? How do people feel about that? -- MelanieN ( talk) 22:16, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
For a RfCU that I've been participating in, certifying editors and the subject of the RfCU are discussing fairness in notification, and it'd be helpful to hear some outside perspectives on this process question. See Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User conduct/Assistance#Question about inviting editors to the drafting process and Wikipedia talk:Canvassing#What.27s considered a fair notification vs convassing.3F for noticeboard questions that involved users have posted, and see Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/Cantaloupe2#Cantaloupe2.27s concerns about selective notification for the relevant section of the RfCU talk page. This is just an invitation for extra eyes in a place where hopefully more editors will see it, since the RfCU assistance board and Canvassing talk page seem to tend to be quiet. Thanks! Dreamyshade ( talk) 01:30, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
Just in case anyone is still watching, I have just closed the "Review" RFC that was here a few months ago, it is at Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/Archive 12#Review. Beeblebrox ( talk) 19:18, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
-- TonyTheTiger ( T/ C/ BIO/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:FOUR) 07:37, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
Could someone close my RFC at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disambiguation#2nd order disambiguation by birth date - RFC. I seem to have defined the wrong scope of the issue and posted it at the wrong page. I would like to withdraw my RFC nomination.-- TonyTheTiger ( T/ C/ BIO/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:FOUR) 18:59, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
I request uninvolved parties to kindly look into the matter Shabiha ( talk) 22:19, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
Input is needed at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Conflict_Resolution#How_is_this_project_different_from_Dispute_Resolution_project to determine if a new project (and perhaps a new DR process) is needed. -- Noleander ( talk) 19:15, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
The bot never added my RfC. It can be found, here. Casprings ( talk) 04:08, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
I'm involved in a dispute at WP:Spelling. The other party says that because the RfC has generated no consensus (It hasn't been thirty days but it's been a while), then the original text must be restored. That doesn't sound so unreasonable, but the version that the other party maintains is the "original" contains said other party's changes but not mine. Is revert-to-original the rule? If so, which version of the text counts as the original? The version that was there before either of us started changing the page or a version from some other point in time? Levels heads would be welcome, but clarifying the rule would certainly help. Darkfrog24 ( talk) 05:35, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
TenPoundHammer wrote within my summary at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Jax 0677. Can I have an uninvolved admin remove this text, which has been placed on the talk page? -- Jax 0677 ( talk) 18:51, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
How do we extend an RFC beyond 30 days?-- TonyTheTiger ( T/ C/ BIO/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:FOUR) 04:38, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Is there any sort of template/hatnote that can be placed at the top of an article to notify editors of an ongoing RfC? I know there's a list of ways to advertise an RfC, but such a notice seems like it would be the most effective way to get interested editors involved. Mbinebri talk ← 17:48, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
Some months ago, after a lengthy discussion, we had a RfC about different collages illustrating the article about Istanbul (at that time FAC, and now FA, but not yet on the main page). At the end, consensus was reached. Now, after barely 4 months, another user opened a new RfC about the same collage. The pictures that he wants to be removed are the same which were in discussion 4 months ago. Should we have a permanent thread on the Talk page about this collage? My opinion is that in this case there is a misuse of this instrument, at least until a totally new collage will be prepared and discussed. Would it not be possible to define under which circumstances an RfC about the same subject can be started again? Thanks, Alex2006 ( talk) 07:00, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
Is some bot stopped thanks? I set up Talk:Flag_of_Northern_Ireland#RfC: Should the Flag of Northern Ireland article show the flag of Ireland? two days ago and it still isn't listed at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Politics, government, and law. Dmcq ( talk) 14:07, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
==RfC: Is the photo in the History section relevant?==
{{rfc|hist}}
Should the "History" section contain a photograph of the ship? ~~~~
Only the last line goes on Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/History_and_geography and thus must contain a full description of what comments are being requested on. WykiP ( talk) 13:29, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
I don't know if this is the right place to report a problem with an RfC, but the Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Wikipedia technical issues and templates page is not rendering correctly. The wikitable is not being displayed, at least for me. Jonesey95 ( talk) 03:51, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
Additions are in the third step in italics. Nothing else has been changed. Changes are to prevent newcomers to the RfC process ending up with a non-descriptive on a RfC list that cannot be corrected because the bots revert all changes on those pages. WykiP ( talk) 17:11, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
~~~~
(name and date) or ~~~~~
(just the date) ...
WykiP (
talk) 22:17, 27 April 2013 (UTC)In an of 11:31, 9 April 2013 (UTC), marked as "Maintenance", the RFC bot deleted the text field of the rfcquote template for the RfC about the Sazerac Company. So now there is no mention on the RfC page of the issue involved in the request. I left a note on the Talk page of the RFC bot itself, but have not gotten a response. Is there a way to fix that? — BarrelProof ( talk) 02:13, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
I am not sure of the correct protocol to list Talk:List_of_gymnasts#A_further_reorganisation_is_tempting_.28now_with_added_RfC.21.29, and would appreciate someone versed in doing so to pick this up, please. Fiddle Faddle ( talk) 19:07, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
I was just wondering why the two RfCs at BP were removed from this page. One was prematurely archived and restored, but the other is still very much active. [13] Can they be restored? I notice that the RfC bot removed them even though they are fairly recent RfCs and their thirty-day period has not yet expired. Coretheapple ( talk) 19:16, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
Just a procedural question ... if a user has voiced their opinion !vote twice on a single RfC, I was wondering what is the standard process? Ask the user to merge them into a single entry? Strike through the second entry? Just leave it and hope whomever closes it spots that there are multiples? I'm not frequently following any particular RfCs, so not sure of the standard established practice, and didn't see anything on this page for guidance. --- Barek ( talk • contribs) - 00:54, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
!=
means not equal. ---
Barek (
talk •
contribs) - 15:54, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
The correct answer to this question is that !votes are not actually votes (which is why this most bothersome of terms, properly understood by approximately nobody in the community, should be retired). If someone makes two comments, and they are contradictory, the appropriate response is to treat them as if the editor had provided a pro and con argument. Obviously comments which do not provide an argument at all should be ignored entirely as usual. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) ( talk) 12:51, 10 May 2013 (UTC)