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The new pages feed is seeing a surge of stubs about Uzbekistan in the last 24 hours. Most look like plausibly notable topics, but most have only one source. Many that look like they have two sources are just the same source in pdf and web page versions. Most also rely on primary sources. There seems to be a very active group of new editors which is great but there’s going to be a lot of frustration and disappointment if they keep churning out stubs like this. Any thoughts on how to approach this? Mccapra ( talk) 10:07, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
Good day! I've just found out that the IbratWiki edit-a-thon is going to run for one more week. Apparently this week they're going to be working with a different cohort of students. I'm not sure this is the best way to go about it, but this whole event has been primarily organized by Ibrat, which is a community of language learners (funded by the Youth Affairs of Agency of Uzbekistan). The IbratWiki coordinators are just volunteers trying to help out. While they have years of editing experience in between them, I don't think any of them are fluent English speakers. So, let's cut them some slack and help them out.
Given the concerns raised above about the poor coordination of the first week of the edit-a-thon, what do you think should be done differently this week? For a start, I've told them not to create cookie-cutter stubs. I've also suggested that the participants primarily focus on improving the articles and drafts created by the previous cohort, as most of them are in a rather sorry state. Meanwhile, I'll go ahead and revise the Meta page to reflect the fact that there are two cohorts of students. Nataev talk 15:00, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
I am wondering if there are any NPPs here willing to share their most effective ways of responding to/dealing with the frustration and personal attacks of editors in a thoughtful and non-escalating way. While it is often possible to effectively communicate with editors, it can get difficult and challenging when these exchanges get personal. Admins, of course, deal with these problems all the time, though I think that NPPs are often subject to a different kind of saber rattling where their authority is questioned even more aggressively. Any thoughts or experiences are welcome. Thank you! Ppt91 ( talk) 18:03, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
Hi y'all – the conversation above about the nifty script @ Phlsph7 wrote, led me to think this might be a good place to start a conversation about the kinds of edits that warrant references being included within them.
Specifically, I'm curious to learn: in what cases do you think someone adding new text to an existing article would NOT warrant them accompanying that new text with a reference? E.g. when someone is adding new content to the lead section of an article, per WP:LEADCITE. When someone is adding new content to plot sections, per WP:PLOTCITE. [i]
I ask the above on behalf of the Editing Team team who is beginning work on a new project that is intended to offer people who are new to editing Wikipedia actionable feedback when the edit(s) they are in the midst of making could defy policies.
The first "check" will prompt people to add a reference when they are attempting to publish an edit that involves them adding new content to an existing article. See proposed UX that's pictured.
In line with the above, we're trying to craft the initial set of "rules" that will determine when this "check" is triggered, thus the question I'm posing here.
Okay, please let me know if there is any additional context that I might be able to offer that would make it easier for you to engage with the question above. And of course, if you think there is a better place for me to ask this question, please let me know.
---
i. Thank you to @ Sdkb for sharing these examples. PPelberg (WMF) ( talk) 02:53, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
all quotations. It seems perhaps tricky but not impossible to computationally determine when a quote is being added.
all material whose verifiability has been challenged. This would be reverting someone who has removed your addition to restore that addition.
all material that is likely to be challenged. This might be tricky to algorithmically determine. Perhaps articles in categories that indicate contentious topic areas, or using a semantic analysis of some sort to predict.
all contentious matter about living and recently deceased persons. "Contentious" might be tricky to algorithmically determine, but living people are easily identified via Category:Living people.
Here are two other instances I didn't think to mention in my Phabricator comment: disambiguation pages and external link sections.
If you're looking to role out the feature gradually, you could also approach this from the other end, of what definitely should have a source added. For that, it's helpful to look at the categories at WP:BURDEN...
are you referring to an approach that would seek to minimize false positives to start?Almost, but not quite. The way I'd frame it is that those scenarios are the ones in which citations are the most important, so there is the most upside. The downside risk of recommending too many citations is more forgivable in that tradeoff, but not necessarily less likely.
Generally speaking, I would suggest sticking to a precautionary principle here and identifying only those instances where referencing is very likely to be unnecessary.
Assuming the cautious approach, it seems to me that edits that should not trigger the notice might include...
If a passage is highlighted, it only means that there could be a problem, not that there definitely is a problem. In this regard, the script is not meant to replace human judgment but only to assist users in finding passages that may need references.
The most basic way to implement such a prompting system would be: check whether the added text contains a reference; prompt if it doesn't and don't prompt if it does. This approach would result in many false positives (as when a summary of a referenced section is added to the lead) and false negatives (as when two paragraphs are added at the same time but references are only provided for one).
...a more conservative approach would be better, i.e. having fewer false positives with the risk of having more false negatives. This may also help you avoid or reduce criticism by experienced users who do not like this change. But, of course, getting the right ratio between false positives and false negatives is a balancing act.
Wikipedia_talk:Good_article_nominations/Archive_27#Script_to_find_unreferenced_passages helpful to judge some reactions to false positives. Initially, the script did not exclude the lead section, which was criticized.
Thanks for the detailed feedback!
One thing you can do is to communicate the limitations clearly in the description of the project.
Another thing would be to formulate the prompt messages carefully to get the editors to think about the issue instead of telling them what they did wrong. So instead of saying "this is wrong" you could say "there may be a problem". This has also certain disadvantages since simple messages are often easier to understand than carefully worded messages.
I guess its purpose, at least initially, is not to ensure that all edits are free from violations of WP:V but to catch the most severe violations and to make new editors aware of them.
Or, maybe better, you decide after you have your first prototype to see how serious it is. A further way for you to handle the issue would be to make the user aware of the problem by giving a different prompt message. Something like "please either provide a source or ensure that these claims are supported elsewhere in the article (see WP:LEADCITE)".
The idea would be that you have 2 filters: a weak one for prompts given to new editors and a stricter one for the filter log.
...minimize false negatives for experienced editors going through these logs.are you meaning something like the below?
As was already mentioned, this could be refined depending on where the paragraphs are added. My script currently excludes the lead and sections with the following names: 'Further reading', 'See also', 'External links', 'References', 'Bibliography', 'Notes', 'Selected publications', 'Selected works', 'Plot'.
If the text is added as part of an existing paragraph, one could check whether this paragraph has references and "citation needed"-tags and whether the text is added before or after the references.
citation needed
templates within the paragraph the person is adding text to...great idea! I've added this to
phab:T324730.
Regular paragraphs and probably lists should be checked but image captions and individual table cells in most cases not. There are many different templates that could be taken into account. For example, Info-boxes usually do not provide references for every single fact while for quotation templates, references are essential.
Another relevant factor could be the size of the added text: if someone adds 5 words to a paragraph, chances are that this is just meant to clarify an existing statement and to introduce a new one.
Even a refined system is bound to lead to false positives so prompt messages should be carefully formulated to take this into account.
SDKB summarized the cases where a cite is required which I'd guess is about 5% of additions. I really don't see this as a good or workable idea. Sincerely, North8000 ( talk) 18:50, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
The mw:Editing team is hosting a meeting about their plans for a new mw:Edit check feature in the visual editor this Friday and hopes to talk about this subject more. If you'd like to have a real-time conversation with User:PPelberg (WMF), this would be a good opportunity.
If you are interested, please see mw:Editing team/Community Conversations#3 March 2023 and plan to join the meeting (17:00 UCT/9:00 a.m. California). Whatamidoing (WMF) ( talk) 20:16, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
For those who are unaware, Newspapers.com is a newspaper database which contains more than 840 million pages from over 22,000-plus newspapers. Newspapers.com is normally a subscription service but it was also previously available to editors who applied for access through the Wikipedia Library. Some changes recently went through and, provided you have access to the Wikipedia Library, the database should be available by default without an application or subscription.
Eligibility: Any editor can use the library if they meet a few basic requirements:
It should automatically appear in your library here, but the direct collection link can be found here.
I HIGHLY encourage editors to check out the site and what it has to offer. Hey man im josh ( talk) 15:44, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
The article Glenn Fleishman was deleted at AfD. Today it was undeleted by DavidLevinson with the edit summary undeleted article - Glenn Fleishman is not unnotable. Additions in progress, more later. Undeleting an article legitimately deleted at AfD because of an admin's personal opinion seems an abuse of privilege. Surely the correct way to have an article on Fleishman if you thought he was notable would be to create a new article in draft and submit to AfC. John B123 ( talk) 21:11, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
restoring to mainspace with the article marked as reviewed (thanks to Pppery for marking it unreviewed) comes across as attempting to minimising third party scrutiny- most likely he was not aware of the mew page patrol process at all, or the intricacies of the way undeleting a page worked. I add lots of slipped-through-the-cracks pages back to the queue, and see nothing malicious about it. * Pppery * it has begun... 23:54, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
Okay, I'm not sure how many of you struggle with this, but one of the biggest obstacles I have when doing patrol is when the sources are in a foreign language. Oftentimes a machine translation will be very helpful in determining notability, but sometimes it's quite difficult. Might we create a page, and link it on our Resources tab, where we can list, by language, editors that speak a non-English language and would be willing to get pinged to look at certain articles? If so, I'll create the blank article, with sections by language and then others can add to it (sections) or list themselves under a section they'd be willing to focus on. To me the big ones are the languages which use an entirely different alphabet (Cyrillic, Arabic, Chinese, etc.). Thoughts? Onel5969 TT me 14:06, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
use machine translation to avoid any possibility of error"? Really? I thought that in general we didn't have that much faith in machine translation yet. Pam D 15:42, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
I’d be happy to share my languages on such a resource page. Mccapra ( talk) 07:41, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
Is this possible with the NPP toolbar? If there is another solution, it would be great to know. Paradise Chronicle ( talk) 03:17, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
Autopatrolled for stub creators has lead to quite some discussions on several venues. Has this been discussed here? I don't see it beneficial for wikipedia if stubs are created for years (by the same editor). Stubs are likely deficient in some way and in my opinion should get a review so they can get tagged for deficiencies. Paradise Chronicle ( talk) 03:24, 28 February 2023 (UTC) :I have added the (by the same editor) after Novem Linguae responded. Paradise Chronicle ( talk) 05:24, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
Stubs are likely deficient in some way- where does that idea come from? A well-constructed stub is only deficient in that it does not cover the topic as extensively as could be done, which is the base state of the vast majority of articles. As noted before, someone who can reliably create stubs that have no other issues is just the kind of person we do want to have the autopatrolled right. -- Elmidae ( talk · contribs) 09:07, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
Without trying to tackle the question of stubs, IMO one of the the criteria for autopatrol is a bit in reverse. IMO someone who an experienced editor who has not created a large quantity of articles is the safest to grant the right to. But one of their criteria is having created a large amount of articles. North8000 ( talk) 13:57, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
@
Onel5969,
M.Ashraf333, and
Silikonz: Recently, I stumbled upon
User talk:DifficTones while looking at that user's
SPI case. I noticed that the three of you on separate occasions moved pretty much the exact same article from mainspace to draftspace. I'm thinking it may have been more productive to nominate the article to
WP:AFD at some point. Getting the article deleted via AfD has the side-benefit of allowing us to use
WP:CSD#G4 to speedily delete any future recreation of the article—rather than requiring us to whack-a-mole the drafts as they are repeatedly recreated. While not a policy, I would also note that
WP:DRAFTOBJECT states that A page may only be moved unilaterally to the draftspace a single time. If anyone objects, it is no longer an uncontroversial move, and the page needs to be handled through other processes, such as deletion, stubbing, tagging, etc.
With all of that being said, I'm mindful that a recent RfA candidate made an argument that "double-draftification" is appropriate in some circumstances and that WP:DRAFTOBJECT was not written based on any well-attended discussion (see Q13 at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/MB). I'd be curious to hear your thoughts. Mz7 ( talk) 23:03, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
Outside these exceptions, articles less than an hour old should not be nominated for deletion, blanked and redirected or moved to draftspace.(see Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Coordination, where multiple users agreed upon the 1 hour guideline, and at Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Archive 5, where Novem Linguae opened another discussion related to the guidance surrounding draftification with input from multiple users).
Would it not save us all a lot of heartache if you could only move articles from Draft to Mainspace via the AfC process? I've seen a number of drafts where the user's gone to AfC, lost patience and banged the article into mainspace (and I've seen a number where the AfC history is lost in the process). Draft:Sachiyo_Ito is, I think, one such. Best Alexandermcnabb ( talk) 06:13, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
IMO Eliminating the ability to create a Wikipedia article except through AFC is a gigantic change that would never pass and IMO not a good idea. But I think that there are two other good ideas above. One is indicating that the wp:before is not intended for NPP situaitons (don't forget wp:before is just a suggestion and not enforcable) and also let NPP put articles back into draft. If we did a through job on drafting, providing rationales, addressing concerns and supporting the RFC IMO both could probably pass. North8000 ( talk) 22:01, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
Hello everyone, there is a ANI about User:John Cummings's promotional content creation that may be of interest to NPP. Frankly, I'm shocked at the promotional nature of the recent content from this editor. Having worked with many new editors, I would argue that if any of the recent pages created by User:John Cummings came through NPP they would not fair well. AugusteBlanqui ( talk) 08:50, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
Does everyone agree with this recent addition to WP:NPP, or does it need more discussion? I don't look forward to folks throwing around the shortcut WP:NPPCON in potential ANIs against NPPers. This addition seems to have a POV that NPPers should never double draftify, never double BLAR, etc. Perhaps this is true, but I feel this needs discussion first. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 17:18, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
It's wide-ranging with some good stuff in it and other stuff that has structural issues and can have bad intended consequences. IMO for addition to such a prominent and influential place it should receive a more granular review. To do that we could take it out and then put it back in piece by piece. Sincerely, North8000 ( talk) 17:00, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
New page reviewers should be aware of this ongoing ANI case related to the use of ChatGPT (or another LLM) to create articles with falsified citations. Make sure to follow through and actually check cited papers when reviewing articles, don't just assume that a plausible-sounding paper title is real. In particular, closely inspect articles whose creation or expansion follows a pattern of "full content first, citations later", as this can be a sign of LLM use. signed, Rosguill talk 18:27, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
I noticed that if I convert a redirect to a dismabiguation page I'm given the option to mark the page as reviewed. I haven't done so the few times it's happened but it's made me wonder if there should be something that prevents this from being an option in the first place. If I created a page through other methods, it won't let me self-review (which is a good thing!) Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 05:41, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
Currently, while the article queue is largely under control and stretches back only to early March (once you ignore the incorrect timestamps at the back), redirects stretch to last December. Reviewing redirects is much easier than articles (but see WP:RPATROL for more guidance), and I imagine that if editors already actively working on reviewing articles add redirects into their work this backlog will disappear quickly. signed, Rosguill talk 00:55, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
Hello, I review AfC drafts and I am also a NPP reviewer. I am wondering if it is ok to review an article that I previously accepted at AfC? ––– GMH MELBOURNE TALK 06:39, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
Per {{ old prod}}'s documentation, it is not to be used for BLPPRODs, so this appears to be an error with the page curation script. Bensci54 ( talk) 15:09, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
I've added a new section to the NPP tutorial to provide guidance for reviewing topics covered by WP:ECR; in principle, new page reviewers (and AfC) should be enforcing this restriction. signed, Rosguill talk 05:29, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
Some topics on Wikipedia are covered by extended-confirmed restricton (ECR), either per an Arbitration Committee decision or following community consensus. These topics can only be edited by accounts that are extended-confrimed (500 edits and more than 30 days old). If you notice articles in the below topic areas by brand new editors, you are encouraged to report the articles and editors to WP:AE, where admins will probably delete the articles and warn the editor.
The same user, Thoppy234, appears to have both submitted a draft biography, Draft:Tokunbo_Omishakin, which is pending review, and also moved a version of the same draft into mainspace, Toks Omishakin, where another editor promptly began editing: Toks Omishakin edit History. What do we do in this circumstance? Geoff | Who, me? 15:16, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
There's some discussion above about the size of the new redirect backlog. Both new page patrollers and page movers are expected to regularly create redirects as part of their roles, and since both are fairly difficult PERMs to get, should be trusted enough to do so without review. Should we perhaps automatically add users who have one of those rights, but not autopatrolled, to the redirect autopatrol list? – Joe ( talk) 08:53, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
Old-timers here might remember nppbrowser, a tool created to help in reviewing. It has been brought back at nppbrowser.toolforge.org. Note: the data is refreshed once every 2 hours. It's search function is what we are hoping to get into Special:NewPagesFeed. - MPGuy2824 ( talk) 03:54, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
Who would folks say are some good COI/UPE detector editors out there? There's a question on my talk page which smells okay to me. But I am far from an expert. Onel5969 TT me 18:17, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
Graphs are unavailable due to technical issues. There is more info on Phabricator and on MediaWiki.org. |
We've often celebrated getting rid of a backlog, only to see it climb again as soon as the drive ends. But looking at the graph, we've now kept the number of unreviewed articles under c. 2000 for more than six months. This is an astonishing feat – the first time it's happened in at least 7 years, probably much longer. Well done, everybody! – Joe ( talk) 08:07, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
Out of curiosity, I checked my most recent article through GPTZero to see what would happen, and wow, it seems that I'm an AI all along! GPTZero states that the entire second paragraph is "likely to be written entirely by AI" (don't know if this is a compliment or insult), and I write with the "full content first then cite" method outlined by Rosguill above as a potential sign of LLM use. In all seriousness, just be aware that while this process does seem good to be able to detect LLM use, it also seems easily susceptible to returning false positives. Curbon7 ( talk) 20:24, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
Just in case you missed the discussion in the section above, I'll give you a full section here. 😉 You can sign up for the drive
here. The aim of the drive is to reduce the redirect review backlog, you must hold New page reviewer rights to participate. The leaderboard is updated by TolBot, and will hopefully (if everything works) account for all redirects reviewed and tagged for deletion (through Page Curation only). Any twinkle CSDs/PRODs/RfDs, will need accounting for at the end of the drive, which will be on the talk page. There is also a need for the redirects to be re-reviewed, around 10% should be re-reviewed, which you find instructions for how to do on the drive page. Look forward to seeing you at the drive,
Zippybonzo |
Talk (he|him)
17:28, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
NB - Re-reviewing is not required in a redirect drive.
Zippybonzo |
Talk (he|him)
07:18, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
New Page Patrol | May 2023 Backlog Drive | |
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You're receiving this message because you are a new page patroller. To opt out of future mailings, please remove yourself here. |
MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 17:12, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
I'm wondering if the NPP group has collected stats on the outcome of reviews? IE, n1 are CFD of one sort or another, n2 are passed, n3 are BLARed, etc. I suspect these can be compiled through Quary, but I'm not familiar enough with the model to be effective there. Maury Markowitz ( talk) 17:56, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
I absolutely hate the Wikidata interface. This used to be so easy. Thanks so much for listening. Mccapra ( talk) 05:51, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
Greetings. Last month I had the thought to develop a set of tags for different concerns on new articles, with messages more specific to NPP patrolling, rather than just any editor tagging a page. I brought it up on the Discord server, and received some limited feedback. I think these would help folks not involved in NPP better understand the NPP process. I've put them on a userpage: User:Onel5969/Preliminary review templates, and would appreciate feedback. I think discussion on whether or not they should be used should be discussed here, while thoughts/comments/suggestions on wording, etc. should be discussed on the userpage's talkpage. The comments which took place on Discord have already been added there. I've created ones for the most common tags I place on articles. There might be others which are used frequently. There are others where I think the existing tags suffice, e.g. Advertisement, All Plot. Look forward to your thoughts. Onel5969 TT me 14:25, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
A while ago, there was some talk of a redirect drive - is this something that may be happening anytime soon due to the large amount of unreviewed redirects? – Meena • 11:09, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
I'm happy to say that you can now sign up for the May 2023 drive here. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 17:15, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
Apparently this talk page doesn't get much traffic so I'm not sure if anyone will see this message. I just thought I'd notify y'all, if you haven't noticed, that in the U.S. we are getting to the end of a school term and I'm seeing a lot of students moving their sandboxes into the main space of the project. Often, they still have sandbox tags on them or reviewer notices. Sometimes they are just moved to "User:Article title" instead of into main space. But most are clearly not ready in any way for main space or "cleaned up".
I just wanted to encourage you, should you come across them, to move them to Draft space, or even back to User space rather than tagging them for deletion. These pages are often abandoned after the school term is over (although I have seen some of them turned into decent articles) but it would be better for the editor if they were moved to Draft or User space rather than straight-out deleted. I realize this is kind of kicking the can down the road but I think the project can handle a little generosity in case these pages need to be reviewed by an instructor to assign a course grade. Thanks everyone for all of the work you do. Liz Read! Talk! 23:05, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
Earlier today I created a new article List of New Mexico counties by socioeconomic factors. Looking at it on the New Pages feed I see it is tagged "Vandalism." What is that about? Whatever it is, I don't like the implication that this article is a product of vandalism. Smallchief ( talk) 17:22, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I'd like to formally propose adding all current and future administrators to the redirect autopatrol list. For those unaware of what this list is for, a bot automatically marks redirects created by those on the list as reviewed. You can make requests for yourself or another editor to be added to the list at the talk page.
There are:
This leaves a total of 526 admins whose redirects are not automatically patrolled. I have already made requests for 12 of these individuals, leaving 514 admins. That list is:
I don't see a need for the NPP team to manually review redirects created by administrators. Their inclusion in this list will help to make the redirect backlog more manageable and allow reviewers to focus their efforts elsewhere. Hey man im josh ( talk) 13:50, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Articles for creation § Improving the AfC process. One topic of discussion is whether users with NPP rights should be automatically able to review AfC submissions. — Ingenuity ( talk • contribs) 14:56, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
With the recent redirect drive, I've seen a pattern of apparent WP:SPA accounts moving Australian geographic articles to remove state name disambiguators, with little editing history outside this and almost all 1-2 years ago (with redirects left behind, that have to be patrolled). Has anyone else noticed anything along these lines? Skarmory (talk • contribs) 05:59, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
I wanted to let you know that I wrote a script to highlight sentences by their reading difficulty with different colors. It goes through articles sentence by sentence. Difficult sentences are colored red and easy sentences are colored green. The script also shows the readability score of the article as a whole at the top. It includes a list of sentences ordered by lowest readability to help identify where the most attention may be needed. The script is found at User:Phlsph7/Readability.js and the documentation is at User:Phlsph7/Readability.
The script measures readability using the Flesch reading ease score. It only considers two factors: words per sentence and syllables per word. According to it, texts with long sentences and long words have low readability. This measure is very superficial and often does not reflect the actual difficulty of the text. For this reason, the script should only be used as a rough guide for potential improvements. It cannot replace human judgment.
The script can be used by New Page Patrollers to quickly identify potential issues for submissions with a problematic writing style. However, they should be very careful when interpreting the readability score. It is very superficial and has many limitations. For this reason, reviewers should always ensure that there is a clearly identifiable problem with the text itself. A low Flesch reading-ease score is not a problem by itself. If they have identified a problem and do not plan to solve it themselves, they can contact the author or raise the issue on the talk page. Alternatively, they can add maintenance tags to the problematic passages, like {{
Copyedit}}
, {{
Cleanup-rewrite}}
, {{
Confusing}}
, {{
Technical}}
, or {{
Incomprehensible}}
, together with a precise explanation of the problem. The script should never be used to semi-automatically add maintenance tags or reject submissions. A thorough and detailed human evaluation is always required.
I hope to get some feedback on potential problems, how the script may be improved, and how to discourage misuse. Phlsph7 ( talk) 07:23, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
See discussion at WT:FAC. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 16:50, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
I'm not sure if this is the right place to mention or if I need mention at all but the current state of The Beauty Myth: Revisited is discomfiting. I have not done your nice training program so I don't know how or what to tag but wanted to flag for someone. jengod ( talk) 19:13, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation § Article creation hypothesis. The WMF's growth team is considering adding guidance for new editors in the article creation project, and they are requesting community opinion. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 04:09, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Drafts § Standard practice and consensus for that. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 19:00, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
Redirects are now under 2k and we are into April! Well done everybody involved. – Meena • 13:48, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
I am reviewing redirects over the redirect backlog drive and I see there are several rather new editors creating redirects? How does someone get the idea to start creating redirects on wikipedia? I am also a bit worried that then such names are covered and won't really encourage the creation of a new article. Also notifications of an eventual AfD, added links to and from the article etc. won't go to the expander of the redirect but to the creator of the redirect who might is interested in the notifications but maybe is not even active anymore. I am interested in reading the opinion from other reviewers. Paradise Chronicle ( talk) 18:37, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
Is anyone else having trouble getting this to appear just at the moment? Mccapra ( talk) 22:05, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
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Over the past year I've seen the work everyone keeps putting in to NPP. From our last couple of awesome backlog drives to software updates, we are a really busy bunch. Since there are ribbons and userboxes for admin actions and number of edits I thought it might be nice if we had our own. Kind of a nice way to recognize all the work people put into NPP. I've put together a small proposal that I've included below, it's very barebones but I figured if there was interest then I would expand it with some community feedback and if there is no interest in this at all then I'll just can it. I figure if there is intrest then I'll get to work making the rest of the graphics etc. I kind of wanted it to end up looking like WP:SERVICE or WP:ASVC. Dr vulpes ( 💬 • 📝) 23:13, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
The proposal has been moved to
User:Dr vulpes/NPP service awards.
I was checking XTools recently when I saw that I had apparently marked an article as patrolled using PageTriage. As I have never been a NPR (considering it though), I was wondering if someone could help me make sense of this log entry ( [2]). Thanks, Schminnte ( talk • contribs) 17:19, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
I know this isn't the right place, but the Counter-Vandalism Studies Unit is dead and according to the Wiki-stats gadjet their talk page had approx. 15 visitors in the last 30 days, vs this page's 1000 visits in the last 30 days. I'm currently conducting a study on IP vandalism, the goal and possible conclusions along with how the study will be conducted is all written on the studies page IP vandalism patterns. If you want to participate, click here and add your name to the participants' list. Crainsaw ( talk) 16:29, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
MPGuy2824 and I are looking for a volunteer to become the NPP newsletter coordinator. This person would help us write the NPP newsletter, mass message the newsletter (either by having the WP:MMS permission, applying for the MMS permission, or posting an MMS request at the appropriate talk page), and helping keep the pressure on us to send it out more often. It's been about 6 months since we sent it, would be nice to get that interval to maybe 3 months. To get an idea, an example newsletter is located at Wikipedia:New pages patrol/Coordination/Draft newsletter. Anyone interested? Thanks. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 04:19, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
Hello folks. If any of you used to do a lot of article reviewing and switched to redirect reviewing for the redirect backlog drive, now may be a good time to switch back to articles. The article backlog is growing and we need all the help we can get to keep it under control. You can check out this list of easy reviews if you want to ease back into it. Thanks everyone. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 09:38, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
I hope that this isn't a stupid question. What is the best practice for dealing with articles that are nearly incomprehensible, evidently because the author knows very little English? In the specific case that prompts this inquiry, what I can tell is that the article is about a Hindu temple. That is about all that I can infer. The article has already been moved back to draft space once, and has been moved back to article space by the original author. The two options that I know of are to tag the article or to nominate it for deletion. Is the {{ incomprehensible}} tag appropriate? I haven't seen incomprehensibility listed as a reason for deletion, but it isn't easy to verify notability if it isn't easy to read an article. Should I review the machine-translations of the references?
The second part of the question is whether anything should be said to the editor who is creating the articles, since we know that editors do not like to be told that they don't know English. It is clear to me that the Wikipedia project would be better served by some editors editing in their native language rather than in what they think is their second language. If the editor is from a country with more than a hundred languages, I don't even know which one to suggest. 16:09, 26 June 2023 (UTC) Robert McClenon ( talk) 16:09, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
You have to ask yourself if users who don’t already know what these terms mean would be looking at the article at all.In my opinion, our articles should be readable to a non-expert. Unfamiliar terms should be explained enough that a non-expert can at least understand the article. Articles that have problems with this sometimes get the {{ Technical}} maintenance tag. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 01:50, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
I have a question as I'm not familiar with the tools NPPers use. If an editor creates a main space article that they then move to Draft space and then back to main space, does it lose its necessity to be reviewed? I've seen this done in the past, these back-to-back article moves, but it wasn't until today, with BraveJusticeKidsCo., that I noticed that the article was neither reviewed and lost the message I usually see that one clicks on to review the article. If an article is moved to different namespaces, does it no longer appear as needing to be reviewed by a patroler? Is this a glitch in the system? Thanks for any insight you can offer. Liz Read! Talk! 23:35, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 45 | Archive 46 | Archive 47 | Archive 48 | Archive 49 | Archive 50 | Archive 51 |
The new pages feed is seeing a surge of stubs about Uzbekistan in the last 24 hours. Most look like plausibly notable topics, but most have only one source. Many that look like they have two sources are just the same source in pdf and web page versions. Most also rely on primary sources. There seems to be a very active group of new editors which is great but there’s going to be a lot of frustration and disappointment if they keep churning out stubs like this. Any thoughts on how to approach this? Mccapra ( talk) 10:07, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
Good day! I've just found out that the IbratWiki edit-a-thon is going to run for one more week. Apparently this week they're going to be working with a different cohort of students. I'm not sure this is the best way to go about it, but this whole event has been primarily organized by Ibrat, which is a community of language learners (funded by the Youth Affairs of Agency of Uzbekistan). The IbratWiki coordinators are just volunteers trying to help out. While they have years of editing experience in between them, I don't think any of them are fluent English speakers. So, let's cut them some slack and help them out.
Given the concerns raised above about the poor coordination of the first week of the edit-a-thon, what do you think should be done differently this week? For a start, I've told them not to create cookie-cutter stubs. I've also suggested that the participants primarily focus on improving the articles and drafts created by the previous cohort, as most of them are in a rather sorry state. Meanwhile, I'll go ahead and revise the Meta page to reflect the fact that there are two cohorts of students. Nataev talk 15:00, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
I am wondering if there are any NPPs here willing to share their most effective ways of responding to/dealing with the frustration and personal attacks of editors in a thoughtful and non-escalating way. While it is often possible to effectively communicate with editors, it can get difficult and challenging when these exchanges get personal. Admins, of course, deal with these problems all the time, though I think that NPPs are often subject to a different kind of saber rattling where their authority is questioned even more aggressively. Any thoughts or experiences are welcome. Thank you! Ppt91 ( talk) 18:03, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
Hi y'all – the conversation above about the nifty script @ Phlsph7 wrote, led me to think this might be a good place to start a conversation about the kinds of edits that warrant references being included within them.
Specifically, I'm curious to learn: in what cases do you think someone adding new text to an existing article would NOT warrant them accompanying that new text with a reference? E.g. when someone is adding new content to the lead section of an article, per WP:LEADCITE. When someone is adding new content to plot sections, per WP:PLOTCITE. [i]
I ask the above on behalf of the Editing Team team who is beginning work on a new project that is intended to offer people who are new to editing Wikipedia actionable feedback when the edit(s) they are in the midst of making could defy policies.
The first "check" will prompt people to add a reference when they are attempting to publish an edit that involves them adding new content to an existing article. See proposed UX that's pictured.
In line with the above, we're trying to craft the initial set of "rules" that will determine when this "check" is triggered, thus the question I'm posing here.
Okay, please let me know if there is any additional context that I might be able to offer that would make it easier for you to engage with the question above. And of course, if you think there is a better place for me to ask this question, please let me know.
---
i. Thank you to @ Sdkb for sharing these examples. PPelberg (WMF) ( talk) 02:53, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
all quotations. It seems perhaps tricky but not impossible to computationally determine when a quote is being added.
all material whose verifiability has been challenged. This would be reverting someone who has removed your addition to restore that addition.
all material that is likely to be challenged. This might be tricky to algorithmically determine. Perhaps articles in categories that indicate contentious topic areas, or using a semantic analysis of some sort to predict.
all contentious matter about living and recently deceased persons. "Contentious" might be tricky to algorithmically determine, but living people are easily identified via Category:Living people.
Here are two other instances I didn't think to mention in my Phabricator comment: disambiguation pages and external link sections.
If you're looking to role out the feature gradually, you could also approach this from the other end, of what definitely should have a source added. For that, it's helpful to look at the categories at WP:BURDEN...
are you referring to an approach that would seek to minimize false positives to start?Almost, but not quite. The way I'd frame it is that those scenarios are the ones in which citations are the most important, so there is the most upside. The downside risk of recommending too many citations is more forgivable in that tradeoff, but not necessarily less likely.
Generally speaking, I would suggest sticking to a precautionary principle here and identifying only those instances where referencing is very likely to be unnecessary.
Assuming the cautious approach, it seems to me that edits that should not trigger the notice might include...
If a passage is highlighted, it only means that there could be a problem, not that there definitely is a problem. In this regard, the script is not meant to replace human judgment but only to assist users in finding passages that may need references.
The most basic way to implement such a prompting system would be: check whether the added text contains a reference; prompt if it doesn't and don't prompt if it does. This approach would result in many false positives (as when a summary of a referenced section is added to the lead) and false negatives (as when two paragraphs are added at the same time but references are only provided for one).
...a more conservative approach would be better, i.e. having fewer false positives with the risk of having more false negatives. This may also help you avoid or reduce criticism by experienced users who do not like this change. But, of course, getting the right ratio between false positives and false negatives is a balancing act.
Wikipedia_talk:Good_article_nominations/Archive_27#Script_to_find_unreferenced_passages helpful to judge some reactions to false positives. Initially, the script did not exclude the lead section, which was criticized.
Thanks for the detailed feedback!
One thing you can do is to communicate the limitations clearly in the description of the project.
Another thing would be to formulate the prompt messages carefully to get the editors to think about the issue instead of telling them what they did wrong. So instead of saying "this is wrong" you could say "there may be a problem". This has also certain disadvantages since simple messages are often easier to understand than carefully worded messages.
I guess its purpose, at least initially, is not to ensure that all edits are free from violations of WP:V but to catch the most severe violations and to make new editors aware of them.
Or, maybe better, you decide after you have your first prototype to see how serious it is. A further way for you to handle the issue would be to make the user aware of the problem by giving a different prompt message. Something like "please either provide a source or ensure that these claims are supported elsewhere in the article (see WP:LEADCITE)".
The idea would be that you have 2 filters: a weak one for prompts given to new editors and a stricter one for the filter log.
...minimize false negatives for experienced editors going through these logs.are you meaning something like the below?
As was already mentioned, this could be refined depending on where the paragraphs are added. My script currently excludes the lead and sections with the following names: 'Further reading', 'See also', 'External links', 'References', 'Bibliography', 'Notes', 'Selected publications', 'Selected works', 'Plot'.
If the text is added as part of an existing paragraph, one could check whether this paragraph has references and "citation needed"-tags and whether the text is added before or after the references.
citation needed
templates within the paragraph the person is adding text to...great idea! I've added this to
phab:T324730.
Regular paragraphs and probably lists should be checked but image captions and individual table cells in most cases not. There are many different templates that could be taken into account. For example, Info-boxes usually do not provide references for every single fact while for quotation templates, references are essential.
Another relevant factor could be the size of the added text: if someone adds 5 words to a paragraph, chances are that this is just meant to clarify an existing statement and to introduce a new one.
Even a refined system is bound to lead to false positives so prompt messages should be carefully formulated to take this into account.
SDKB summarized the cases where a cite is required which I'd guess is about 5% of additions. I really don't see this as a good or workable idea. Sincerely, North8000 ( talk) 18:50, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
The mw:Editing team is hosting a meeting about their plans for a new mw:Edit check feature in the visual editor this Friday and hopes to talk about this subject more. If you'd like to have a real-time conversation with User:PPelberg (WMF), this would be a good opportunity.
If you are interested, please see mw:Editing team/Community Conversations#3 March 2023 and plan to join the meeting (17:00 UCT/9:00 a.m. California). Whatamidoing (WMF) ( talk) 20:16, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
For those who are unaware, Newspapers.com is a newspaper database which contains more than 840 million pages from over 22,000-plus newspapers. Newspapers.com is normally a subscription service but it was also previously available to editors who applied for access through the Wikipedia Library. Some changes recently went through and, provided you have access to the Wikipedia Library, the database should be available by default without an application or subscription.
Eligibility: Any editor can use the library if they meet a few basic requirements:
It should automatically appear in your library here, but the direct collection link can be found here.
I HIGHLY encourage editors to check out the site and what it has to offer. Hey man im josh ( talk) 15:44, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
The article Glenn Fleishman was deleted at AfD. Today it was undeleted by DavidLevinson with the edit summary undeleted article - Glenn Fleishman is not unnotable. Additions in progress, more later. Undeleting an article legitimately deleted at AfD because of an admin's personal opinion seems an abuse of privilege. Surely the correct way to have an article on Fleishman if you thought he was notable would be to create a new article in draft and submit to AfC. John B123 ( talk) 21:11, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
restoring to mainspace with the article marked as reviewed (thanks to Pppery for marking it unreviewed) comes across as attempting to minimising third party scrutiny- most likely he was not aware of the mew page patrol process at all, or the intricacies of the way undeleting a page worked. I add lots of slipped-through-the-cracks pages back to the queue, and see nothing malicious about it. * Pppery * it has begun... 23:54, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
Okay, I'm not sure how many of you struggle with this, but one of the biggest obstacles I have when doing patrol is when the sources are in a foreign language. Oftentimes a machine translation will be very helpful in determining notability, but sometimes it's quite difficult. Might we create a page, and link it on our Resources tab, where we can list, by language, editors that speak a non-English language and would be willing to get pinged to look at certain articles? If so, I'll create the blank article, with sections by language and then others can add to it (sections) or list themselves under a section they'd be willing to focus on. To me the big ones are the languages which use an entirely different alphabet (Cyrillic, Arabic, Chinese, etc.). Thoughts? Onel5969 TT me 14:06, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
use machine translation to avoid any possibility of error"? Really? I thought that in general we didn't have that much faith in machine translation yet. Pam D 15:42, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
I’d be happy to share my languages on such a resource page. Mccapra ( talk) 07:41, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
Is this possible with the NPP toolbar? If there is another solution, it would be great to know. Paradise Chronicle ( talk) 03:17, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
Autopatrolled for stub creators has lead to quite some discussions on several venues. Has this been discussed here? I don't see it beneficial for wikipedia if stubs are created for years (by the same editor). Stubs are likely deficient in some way and in my opinion should get a review so they can get tagged for deficiencies. Paradise Chronicle ( talk) 03:24, 28 February 2023 (UTC) :I have added the (by the same editor) after Novem Linguae responded. Paradise Chronicle ( talk) 05:24, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
Stubs are likely deficient in some way- where does that idea come from? A well-constructed stub is only deficient in that it does not cover the topic as extensively as could be done, which is the base state of the vast majority of articles. As noted before, someone who can reliably create stubs that have no other issues is just the kind of person we do want to have the autopatrolled right. -- Elmidae ( talk · contribs) 09:07, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
Without trying to tackle the question of stubs, IMO one of the the criteria for autopatrol is a bit in reverse. IMO someone who an experienced editor who has not created a large quantity of articles is the safest to grant the right to. But one of their criteria is having created a large amount of articles. North8000 ( talk) 13:57, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
@
Onel5969,
M.Ashraf333, and
Silikonz: Recently, I stumbled upon
User talk:DifficTones while looking at that user's
SPI case. I noticed that the three of you on separate occasions moved pretty much the exact same article from mainspace to draftspace. I'm thinking it may have been more productive to nominate the article to
WP:AFD at some point. Getting the article deleted via AfD has the side-benefit of allowing us to use
WP:CSD#G4 to speedily delete any future recreation of the article—rather than requiring us to whack-a-mole the drafts as they are repeatedly recreated. While not a policy, I would also note that
WP:DRAFTOBJECT states that A page may only be moved unilaterally to the draftspace a single time. If anyone objects, it is no longer an uncontroversial move, and the page needs to be handled through other processes, such as deletion, stubbing, tagging, etc.
With all of that being said, I'm mindful that a recent RfA candidate made an argument that "double-draftification" is appropriate in some circumstances and that WP:DRAFTOBJECT was not written based on any well-attended discussion (see Q13 at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/MB). I'd be curious to hear your thoughts. Mz7 ( talk) 23:03, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
Outside these exceptions, articles less than an hour old should not be nominated for deletion, blanked and redirected or moved to draftspace.(see Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Coordination, where multiple users agreed upon the 1 hour guideline, and at Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Archive 5, where Novem Linguae opened another discussion related to the guidance surrounding draftification with input from multiple users).
Would it not save us all a lot of heartache if you could only move articles from Draft to Mainspace via the AfC process? I've seen a number of drafts where the user's gone to AfC, lost patience and banged the article into mainspace (and I've seen a number where the AfC history is lost in the process). Draft:Sachiyo_Ito is, I think, one such. Best Alexandermcnabb ( talk) 06:13, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
IMO Eliminating the ability to create a Wikipedia article except through AFC is a gigantic change that would never pass and IMO not a good idea. But I think that there are two other good ideas above. One is indicating that the wp:before is not intended for NPP situaitons (don't forget wp:before is just a suggestion and not enforcable) and also let NPP put articles back into draft. If we did a through job on drafting, providing rationales, addressing concerns and supporting the RFC IMO both could probably pass. North8000 ( talk) 22:01, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
Hello everyone, there is a ANI about User:John Cummings's promotional content creation that may be of interest to NPP. Frankly, I'm shocked at the promotional nature of the recent content from this editor. Having worked with many new editors, I would argue that if any of the recent pages created by User:John Cummings came through NPP they would not fair well. AugusteBlanqui ( talk) 08:50, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
Does everyone agree with this recent addition to WP:NPP, or does it need more discussion? I don't look forward to folks throwing around the shortcut WP:NPPCON in potential ANIs against NPPers. This addition seems to have a POV that NPPers should never double draftify, never double BLAR, etc. Perhaps this is true, but I feel this needs discussion first. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 17:18, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
It's wide-ranging with some good stuff in it and other stuff that has structural issues and can have bad intended consequences. IMO for addition to such a prominent and influential place it should receive a more granular review. To do that we could take it out and then put it back in piece by piece. Sincerely, North8000 ( talk) 17:00, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
New page reviewers should be aware of this ongoing ANI case related to the use of ChatGPT (or another LLM) to create articles with falsified citations. Make sure to follow through and actually check cited papers when reviewing articles, don't just assume that a plausible-sounding paper title is real. In particular, closely inspect articles whose creation or expansion follows a pattern of "full content first, citations later", as this can be a sign of LLM use. signed, Rosguill talk 18:27, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
I noticed that if I convert a redirect to a dismabiguation page I'm given the option to mark the page as reviewed. I haven't done so the few times it's happened but it's made me wonder if there should be something that prevents this from being an option in the first place. If I created a page through other methods, it won't let me self-review (which is a good thing!) Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 05:41, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
Currently, while the article queue is largely under control and stretches back only to early March (once you ignore the incorrect timestamps at the back), redirects stretch to last December. Reviewing redirects is much easier than articles (but see WP:RPATROL for more guidance), and I imagine that if editors already actively working on reviewing articles add redirects into their work this backlog will disappear quickly. signed, Rosguill talk 00:55, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
Hello, I review AfC drafts and I am also a NPP reviewer. I am wondering if it is ok to review an article that I previously accepted at AfC? ––– GMH MELBOURNE TALK 06:39, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
Per {{ old prod}}'s documentation, it is not to be used for BLPPRODs, so this appears to be an error with the page curation script. Bensci54 ( talk) 15:09, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
I've added a new section to the NPP tutorial to provide guidance for reviewing topics covered by WP:ECR; in principle, new page reviewers (and AfC) should be enforcing this restriction. signed, Rosguill talk 05:29, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
Some topics on Wikipedia are covered by extended-confirmed restricton (ECR), either per an Arbitration Committee decision or following community consensus. These topics can only be edited by accounts that are extended-confrimed (500 edits and more than 30 days old). If you notice articles in the below topic areas by brand new editors, you are encouraged to report the articles and editors to WP:AE, where admins will probably delete the articles and warn the editor.
The same user, Thoppy234, appears to have both submitted a draft biography, Draft:Tokunbo_Omishakin, which is pending review, and also moved a version of the same draft into mainspace, Toks Omishakin, where another editor promptly began editing: Toks Omishakin edit History. What do we do in this circumstance? Geoff | Who, me? 15:16, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
There's some discussion above about the size of the new redirect backlog. Both new page patrollers and page movers are expected to regularly create redirects as part of their roles, and since both are fairly difficult PERMs to get, should be trusted enough to do so without review. Should we perhaps automatically add users who have one of those rights, but not autopatrolled, to the redirect autopatrol list? – Joe ( talk) 08:53, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
Old-timers here might remember nppbrowser, a tool created to help in reviewing. It has been brought back at nppbrowser.toolforge.org. Note: the data is refreshed once every 2 hours. It's search function is what we are hoping to get into Special:NewPagesFeed. - MPGuy2824 ( talk) 03:54, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
Who would folks say are some good COI/UPE detector editors out there? There's a question on my talk page which smells okay to me. But I am far from an expert. Onel5969 TT me 18:17, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
Graphs are unavailable due to technical issues. There is more info on Phabricator and on MediaWiki.org. |
We've often celebrated getting rid of a backlog, only to see it climb again as soon as the drive ends. But looking at the graph, we've now kept the number of unreviewed articles under c. 2000 for more than six months. This is an astonishing feat – the first time it's happened in at least 7 years, probably much longer. Well done, everybody! – Joe ( talk) 08:07, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
Out of curiosity, I checked my most recent article through GPTZero to see what would happen, and wow, it seems that I'm an AI all along! GPTZero states that the entire second paragraph is "likely to be written entirely by AI" (don't know if this is a compliment or insult), and I write with the "full content first then cite" method outlined by Rosguill above as a potential sign of LLM use. In all seriousness, just be aware that while this process does seem good to be able to detect LLM use, it also seems easily susceptible to returning false positives. Curbon7 ( talk) 20:24, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
Just in case you missed the discussion in the section above, I'll give you a full section here. 😉 You can sign up for the drive
here. The aim of the drive is to reduce the redirect review backlog, you must hold New page reviewer rights to participate. The leaderboard is updated by TolBot, and will hopefully (if everything works) account for all redirects reviewed and tagged for deletion (through Page Curation only). Any twinkle CSDs/PRODs/RfDs, will need accounting for at the end of the drive, which will be on the talk page. There is also a need for the redirects to be re-reviewed, around 10% should be re-reviewed, which you find instructions for how to do on the drive page. Look forward to seeing you at the drive,
Zippybonzo |
Talk (he|him)
17:28, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
NB - Re-reviewing is not required in a redirect drive.
Zippybonzo |
Talk (he|him)
07:18, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
New Page Patrol | May 2023 Backlog Drive | |
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You're receiving this message because you are a new page patroller. To opt out of future mailings, please remove yourself here. |
MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 17:12, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
I'm wondering if the NPP group has collected stats on the outcome of reviews? IE, n1 are CFD of one sort or another, n2 are passed, n3 are BLARed, etc. I suspect these can be compiled through Quary, but I'm not familiar enough with the model to be effective there. Maury Markowitz ( talk) 17:56, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
I absolutely hate the Wikidata interface. This used to be so easy. Thanks so much for listening. Mccapra ( talk) 05:51, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
Greetings. Last month I had the thought to develop a set of tags for different concerns on new articles, with messages more specific to NPP patrolling, rather than just any editor tagging a page. I brought it up on the Discord server, and received some limited feedback. I think these would help folks not involved in NPP better understand the NPP process. I've put them on a userpage: User:Onel5969/Preliminary review templates, and would appreciate feedback. I think discussion on whether or not they should be used should be discussed here, while thoughts/comments/suggestions on wording, etc. should be discussed on the userpage's talkpage. The comments which took place on Discord have already been added there. I've created ones for the most common tags I place on articles. There might be others which are used frequently. There are others where I think the existing tags suffice, e.g. Advertisement, All Plot. Look forward to your thoughts. Onel5969 TT me 14:25, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
A while ago, there was some talk of a redirect drive - is this something that may be happening anytime soon due to the large amount of unreviewed redirects? – Meena • 11:09, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
I'm happy to say that you can now sign up for the May 2023 drive here. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 17:15, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
Apparently this talk page doesn't get much traffic so I'm not sure if anyone will see this message. I just thought I'd notify y'all, if you haven't noticed, that in the U.S. we are getting to the end of a school term and I'm seeing a lot of students moving their sandboxes into the main space of the project. Often, they still have sandbox tags on them or reviewer notices. Sometimes they are just moved to "User:Article title" instead of into main space. But most are clearly not ready in any way for main space or "cleaned up".
I just wanted to encourage you, should you come across them, to move them to Draft space, or even back to User space rather than tagging them for deletion. These pages are often abandoned after the school term is over (although I have seen some of them turned into decent articles) but it would be better for the editor if they were moved to Draft or User space rather than straight-out deleted. I realize this is kind of kicking the can down the road but I think the project can handle a little generosity in case these pages need to be reviewed by an instructor to assign a course grade. Thanks everyone for all of the work you do. Liz Read! Talk! 23:05, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
Earlier today I created a new article List of New Mexico counties by socioeconomic factors. Looking at it on the New Pages feed I see it is tagged "Vandalism." What is that about? Whatever it is, I don't like the implication that this article is a product of vandalism. Smallchief ( talk) 17:22, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I'd like to formally propose adding all current and future administrators to the redirect autopatrol list. For those unaware of what this list is for, a bot automatically marks redirects created by those on the list as reviewed. You can make requests for yourself or another editor to be added to the list at the talk page.
There are:
This leaves a total of 526 admins whose redirects are not automatically patrolled. I have already made requests for 12 of these individuals, leaving 514 admins. That list is:
I don't see a need for the NPP team to manually review redirects created by administrators. Their inclusion in this list will help to make the redirect backlog more manageable and allow reviewers to focus their efforts elsewhere. Hey man im josh ( talk) 13:50, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Articles for creation § Improving the AfC process. One topic of discussion is whether users with NPP rights should be automatically able to review AfC submissions. — Ingenuity ( talk • contribs) 14:56, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
With the recent redirect drive, I've seen a pattern of apparent WP:SPA accounts moving Australian geographic articles to remove state name disambiguators, with little editing history outside this and almost all 1-2 years ago (with redirects left behind, that have to be patrolled). Has anyone else noticed anything along these lines? Skarmory (talk • contribs) 05:59, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
I wanted to let you know that I wrote a script to highlight sentences by their reading difficulty with different colors. It goes through articles sentence by sentence. Difficult sentences are colored red and easy sentences are colored green. The script also shows the readability score of the article as a whole at the top. It includes a list of sentences ordered by lowest readability to help identify where the most attention may be needed. The script is found at User:Phlsph7/Readability.js and the documentation is at User:Phlsph7/Readability.
The script measures readability using the Flesch reading ease score. It only considers two factors: words per sentence and syllables per word. According to it, texts with long sentences and long words have low readability. This measure is very superficial and often does not reflect the actual difficulty of the text. For this reason, the script should only be used as a rough guide for potential improvements. It cannot replace human judgment.
The script can be used by New Page Patrollers to quickly identify potential issues for submissions with a problematic writing style. However, they should be very careful when interpreting the readability score. It is very superficial and has many limitations. For this reason, reviewers should always ensure that there is a clearly identifiable problem with the text itself. A low Flesch reading-ease score is not a problem by itself. If they have identified a problem and do not plan to solve it themselves, they can contact the author or raise the issue on the talk page. Alternatively, they can add maintenance tags to the problematic passages, like {{
Copyedit}}
, {{
Cleanup-rewrite}}
, {{
Confusing}}
, {{
Technical}}
, or {{
Incomprehensible}}
, together with a precise explanation of the problem. The script should never be used to semi-automatically add maintenance tags or reject submissions. A thorough and detailed human evaluation is always required.
I hope to get some feedback on potential problems, how the script may be improved, and how to discourage misuse. Phlsph7 ( talk) 07:23, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
See discussion at WT:FAC. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 16:50, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
I'm not sure if this is the right place to mention or if I need mention at all but the current state of The Beauty Myth: Revisited is discomfiting. I have not done your nice training program so I don't know how or what to tag but wanted to flag for someone. jengod ( talk) 19:13, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation § Article creation hypothesis. The WMF's growth team is considering adding guidance for new editors in the article creation project, and they are requesting community opinion. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 04:09, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Drafts § Standard practice and consensus for that. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 19:00, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
Redirects are now under 2k and we are into April! Well done everybody involved. – Meena • 13:48, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
I am reviewing redirects over the redirect backlog drive and I see there are several rather new editors creating redirects? How does someone get the idea to start creating redirects on wikipedia? I am also a bit worried that then such names are covered and won't really encourage the creation of a new article. Also notifications of an eventual AfD, added links to and from the article etc. won't go to the expander of the redirect but to the creator of the redirect who might is interested in the notifications but maybe is not even active anymore. I am interested in reading the opinion from other reviewers. Paradise Chronicle ( talk) 18:37, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
Is anyone else having trouble getting this to appear just at the moment? Mccapra ( talk) 22:05, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
TypeError: mw.pageTriage.Article is not a constructor
- at ext.pageTriage.views.toolbar/ToolbarView.js (load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.pageTriage.views.toolbar&skin=vector&version=xmdtm:1)
- at runScript (load.php?lang=en&modules=startup&only=scripts&raw=1&skin=vector:11)
- at Array.<anonymous> (load.php?lang=en&modules=startup&only=scripts&raw=1&skin=vector:12)
at flushCssBuffer (load.php?lang=en&modules=startup&only=scripts&raw=1&skin=vector:4)
Uncaught Error: pagejs missing. Please see
http://tmnk.net/faq#Q208 for more information.
Over the past year I've seen the work everyone keeps putting in to NPP. From our last couple of awesome backlog drives to software updates, we are a really busy bunch. Since there are ribbons and userboxes for admin actions and number of edits I thought it might be nice if we had our own. Kind of a nice way to recognize all the work people put into NPP. I've put together a small proposal that I've included below, it's very barebones but I figured if there was interest then I would expand it with some community feedback and if there is no interest in this at all then I'll just can it. I figure if there is intrest then I'll get to work making the rest of the graphics etc. I kind of wanted it to end up looking like WP:SERVICE or WP:ASVC. Dr vulpes ( 💬 • 📝) 23:13, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
The proposal has been moved to
User:Dr vulpes/NPP service awards.
I was checking XTools recently when I saw that I had apparently marked an article as patrolled using PageTriage. As I have never been a NPR (considering it though), I was wondering if someone could help me make sense of this log entry ( [2]). Thanks, Schminnte ( talk • contribs) 17:19, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
I know this isn't the right place, but the Counter-Vandalism Studies Unit is dead and according to the Wiki-stats gadjet their talk page had approx. 15 visitors in the last 30 days, vs this page's 1000 visits in the last 30 days. I'm currently conducting a study on IP vandalism, the goal and possible conclusions along with how the study will be conducted is all written on the studies page IP vandalism patterns. If you want to participate, click here and add your name to the participants' list. Crainsaw ( talk) 16:29, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
MPGuy2824 and I are looking for a volunteer to become the NPP newsletter coordinator. This person would help us write the NPP newsletter, mass message the newsletter (either by having the WP:MMS permission, applying for the MMS permission, or posting an MMS request at the appropriate talk page), and helping keep the pressure on us to send it out more often. It's been about 6 months since we sent it, would be nice to get that interval to maybe 3 months. To get an idea, an example newsletter is located at Wikipedia:New pages patrol/Coordination/Draft newsletter. Anyone interested? Thanks. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 04:19, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
Hello folks. If any of you used to do a lot of article reviewing and switched to redirect reviewing for the redirect backlog drive, now may be a good time to switch back to articles. The article backlog is growing and we need all the help we can get to keep it under control. You can check out this list of easy reviews if you want to ease back into it. Thanks everyone. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 09:38, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
I hope that this isn't a stupid question. What is the best practice for dealing with articles that are nearly incomprehensible, evidently because the author knows very little English? In the specific case that prompts this inquiry, what I can tell is that the article is about a Hindu temple. That is about all that I can infer. The article has already been moved back to draft space once, and has been moved back to article space by the original author. The two options that I know of are to tag the article or to nominate it for deletion. Is the {{ incomprehensible}} tag appropriate? I haven't seen incomprehensibility listed as a reason for deletion, but it isn't easy to verify notability if it isn't easy to read an article. Should I review the machine-translations of the references?
The second part of the question is whether anything should be said to the editor who is creating the articles, since we know that editors do not like to be told that they don't know English. It is clear to me that the Wikipedia project would be better served by some editors editing in their native language rather than in what they think is their second language. If the editor is from a country with more than a hundred languages, I don't even know which one to suggest. 16:09, 26 June 2023 (UTC) Robert McClenon ( talk) 16:09, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
You have to ask yourself if users who don’t already know what these terms mean would be looking at the article at all.In my opinion, our articles should be readable to a non-expert. Unfamiliar terms should be explained enough that a non-expert can at least understand the article. Articles that have problems with this sometimes get the {{ Technical}} maintenance tag. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 01:50, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
I have a question as I'm not familiar with the tools NPPers use. If an editor creates a main space article that they then move to Draft space and then back to main space, does it lose its necessity to be reviewed? I've seen this done in the past, these back-to-back article moves, but it wasn't until today, with BraveJusticeKidsCo., that I noticed that the article was neither reviewed and lost the message I usually see that one clicks on to review the article. If an article is moved to different namespaces, does it no longer appear as needing to be reviewed by a patroler? Is this a glitch in the system? Thanks for any insight you can offer. Liz Read! Talk! 23:35, 26 June 2023 (UTC)