https://ilga.org/state-sponsored-homophobia-report
Hi the latest 2019 ilga report is very important and highly big and informative Many lgbt country pages in africa asia and (even americas) need to be updated urhently Take ur time and check and hope u can update the countries Some unapdated even from 2011
There is also the blog erasing 76 Like this just write the name of country and erasing 76 in google like that
Also there is The U.S. Department of State's 2019 Human Rights Report
I would do it happily but i'm focusing much on the translating English LGBT content pages into Arabic all the time and can't much
Thx good luck (no pressure of course, just a suggestion) AdamPrideTN ( talk) 08:35, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
Hi kwami, sorry for getting back this late. No, unfortunately, I have no extra-material on Chuukese. It is quite remote from my main area of research. But there is a Bible translation of Chuukese which might be helpful. Bible translations have to be taken of course cum grano salis, but many of them are very idiomatic and represent the natural spoken language in quite a reliable way. – Austronesier ( talk) 12:16, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
Concerning your recent edit at Template:Same-sex unions, are you certain same-sex marriages performed in the Netherlands are registered as civil unions in Aruba? Do you have any sources to confirm this? Technically, they should be registered as full marriages, as per several court rulings, including a ruling from the Supreme Court of the Netherlands. Jedi Friend ( talk) 08:30, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
From the rights groups I've contacted, you aren't married under local law in those states. True, you can register your marriage, and I suspect that counts for residency, as it does in e.g. Romania, but it doesn't count as a marriage any more than it does in Romania. In Curacao, you supposedly have no rights whatsoever apart from living there. In Aruba, I would *assume* that your marriage counts as a CU rather than as nothing, though I suppose it's possible that you would need to get a local CU for those rights, as you evidently have to do in Estonia. (You can register your marriage in Estonia, but don't get the rights of a CU unless you get one of those as well -- at least according to some reports. But then, you can't actually get a CU in Estonia (or at least you weren't able to for a while), so need to get married abroad in order to have CU-equivalent rights, according to other reports.)
It's like trying to figure out whether a Muslim man with three wives emigrating to the US is still married to any of his wives. We really need better sources for these states, Estonia, Armenia, Cambodia, Japan and a bunch of US tribal govs. If you have RS's for Aruba, not just that there was a court judgement or that people register their marriages, which all agree on, but that ppl actually have full marriage rights, rights that people with local CU's don't, that would be fantastic. — kwami ( talk) 12:21, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
I wrote to the govt ministries of all three countries earlier this year, and haven't received any replies. The only response I got was from a rights group in Curacao, and they say that registration confers no rights there (taxes, medical decisions, etc.). We went back and forth a few times to make sure there wasn't a translation issue, since they were writing in English and it wasn't quite colloquial. I posted their responses somewhere on WP talk, though of course you'd have to write them yourself to verify. For the Estonian group, they said it's all very complicated and hadn't stabilized. Not like the EU ruling, which is reasonably straightforward and everyone seems to have accepted. But then we have similar things going on with Sinaloa, where the MORENA govt just rejected the legislation to implement the SC ruling. — kwami ( talk) 23:37, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
Hey Kwami, could you please have a look at Matsés language? The article has been strongly expanded by an IP lately, but unfortunately their writing is rather sloppy and reads non-native-English, and not compatible with Wikipedia MOS, so the article looks like a mess and would need a large amount of copyediting to make it look decent, I fear, and also fact-checking.
Frankly, I've considered reverting the additions wholesale because I feel that at least in such obscure corners of Wikipedia, where few eyes, let alone competent (or even relevant specialist expert) eyes, are watching what's going on, and looking after it, well-meaning outsiders can make articles worse rather than better by adding large amounts of seemingly well-sourced text to them, since it creates so much work that nobody seems willing nor even able to do. I'm also not sure if there might not be a kind of UNDUE going on here, when an obscure language (even to linguists) receives such disproportionately-seeming coverage on Wikipedia, but I'm quite unsure how to proceed in this case. -- Florian Blaschke ( talk) 08:56, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
Comment again if I don't get to this, as I'm not going to do anything now and my 'new messages' icon is gone.
Personally, I don't think that's too much coverage at all. All languages deserve the respect we'd give ones we know, and if other WP language articles are much shorter, then that's a shortcoming in them. The quality and accuracy of the writing is a different matter, of course. E.g., the Pisabo info box is now stranded with no indication of what it's doing in the article. — kwami ( talk) 10:54, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
Hi Kwami. {{ Infobox language}} generates a named reference for use in language articles. The usual reference generated is for Ethnologue which is often used in the article text. However every year Ethnologue gets updated, and every year the language articles start showing errors of the form "Cite error: The named reference e18 was invoked but never defined (see the help page)." in big red type as here. If there are only a few problems I fix them by updating the article text to match the new Ethnologue reference, but I can access the site only a few times before I am locked out. Is there some solution to this annual problem? I fixed a similar problem with {{ Canada census}} by making sure it continued to export references for older censuses, but this doesn't seem applicable here. StarryGrandma ( talk) 00:44, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
@ StarryGrandma: yeah, it is a pain. But it was done intentionally. Before that, ppl would ref Ethn, and often after a few years the ref would no longer support the claim, because Ethn had been updated in the meantime and the WP article had not. E.g. we'd say there were X number of speakers, with Ethn as a ref, but if you checked the ref, you'd see twice that many -- or half. But verifying all the refs in every language article every year is just too big a job -- it would never get done. (I wouldn't do it, not after cleaning up WP once!, and you might be one of the few other ppl working on it.) So now we generate refs to specific editions of Ethn. Of course, for the info box, which is easy to monitor, population figures may be updated when a new edition of Ethn comes out (when I was more active, I would do it every article each time), and editors making such quick updates often don't bother to check the rest of the article for cross refs to the old edition. I don't know what we could do to improve the situation, though. If we didn't enable the cross-ref tag, then at first we'd end up with duplicate refs, and then later it wouldn't be so obvious that our cited material was dated. At least the cite error is a warning that something is wrong. A simple fix would mean no warning, which IMO would be worse. (E.g. in the info box we'd ref one population estimate, and in the body of the article a different, older estimate -- that happens all the time.) Do you have any ideas? — kwami ( talk) 02:13, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
<ref name=e18 />
with <ref name=e18>{{E18|iso code}}</ref>
or <ref name=e18>{{E18|iso code|name}}</ref>
when I run into things like this and can't get into Ethnologue. (If a number has been updated in the infobox but not in the text I can use the infobox number and source to fix it.) This is not ideal but keeps away editors who like to clean up all of
Category:Pages with broken reference names by just removing the broken references.
StarryGrandma (
talk)
15:35, 29 June 2019 (UTC)@ StarryGrandma: Sorry, didn't see your comment. Yeah, that sounds like a good solution. — kwami ( talk) 03:50, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
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The file File:Pahawh yu.png has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
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Category:Pondicherry templates, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. — andrybak ( talk) 21:24, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
http://www.equalityontrial.com/2019/06/25/625-open-thread/#idc-container
https://mobile.twitter.com/lgbtmarriage
https://m.facebook.com/nelfa.aisbl/
Are one of the best sites woth sources that provides daily updates about lgbt rights (some that go unedited for weeks)
I would advice you to check them from time to time for updates
I would do what i can happily but i'm focusing much on the translating English LGBT content pages into Arabic all the time and can't much
Thx good luck (no pressure of course, just a suggestion) AdamPrideTN ( talk) 08:55, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
According to my global account info, the edit I just made on WP-en was number 399,993, which according to George Carlin is the number of words you can say on television.
— kwami ( talk) 06:47, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
This is edit 400,000. Not so active any more, so thought I'd keep track of when. — kwami ( talk) 22:21, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
Hi Kwamikagami,
I proposed a rename for Same-sex marriage under United States tribal jurisdictions and started a discussion and would appreciate if you added your thoughts to the discussion.
Thanks, - TenorTwelve ( talk) 22:54, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
May I request to unprotect the page Maltese language. According to logs, the page has been semi-protected for more than ten years. — Jencie Nasino ( talk) 01:15, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
Hello sir sorry to bother u but i need ur help
So ok if u will ckeck LGBT rights in Tunisia page u will find and please read the history and the history and talk page history of that ( Personal attack removed) user by the name moneysoendethe page and other sas perfectly fine till he comes and starts deleting sourced content and all
Please read revert if u can his editq or restore my edits that are sourced and the true nature of the legal dituation there and try talk to him telli'g to ( Personal attack removed) that putting vigilante attacks are tolerated is not what the law says and is a biased unsourced point of u
If u didnt find my argument please ask me so i can give u to them but u can fi'd it in the edits and his talk pahe and contribution history
Thx
If not cleaer tell me how can i make it more clearer for u thx AdamPrideTN ( talk) 00:50, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Kwamikagami don't fall into his drama and personal attacks. He has been at me attacking, assuming bad faith and being overall very unpolite about edit he disagrees with, especially Tunisia pages. I advised him to not edit if his neutral point of view would be distracted by his own personal feelings, but I see he has ignored that and continued wp:EW with wp:DE. Please see my comments as well, I have undid your edit because I have added and noted where in the sources these points are supported. Please see them and then if you still disagree feel free to talk in the talkpage before editing. I will continue to consider your points and then if we still have different ideas on how we should address vigilante executions in the penalty boxes, maybe a compromise edit is in order. Either way I'm keeping an open mind, unlike how Adam continues to portray me out of whatever unprofessional negative feelings he has towards me. Thanks again. Moneyspender ( talk) 05:41, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Saddened to see the "semi retired" banner — hope you have a change of mind.
An editor who has been absent for a while made a valiant effort here to resolve the glut of sources in the article, added by another editor also absent for some time. Do we really need all those sources (wrapped up as single entries or not)? It is not as if anyone is going to dispute that such studies have been made to warrant such an ironcast twentyfold proof of their existence. In fact, even the breaking up of linguistics into its various areas of study is already an overkill. Unless there is a specific reason why a certain area is not studied (in which case that would be important to mention), it is natural thal all would be, without any need for the lengthy string of disciplines. Surely this falls under WP:NOTREPOSITORY? The article has been copied (translated) to the Portuguese Wikipedia and I want to consult people on both sides before attempting something on the ptwiki. Thanks for your time, Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia ( talk) 21:01, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
Thanks, Kwami. Will open themone by one and sift out the primary ones. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia ( talk) 08:03, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Hello, mr @ Kwamikagami: Sorry for the bother U are more experienced than me in this I am not mentionning any name or calling anyone or atgacking him please However, Would u be so kind and check LGBT rights in Jamaica history page and recent edits and see what can be done, So basically its true Jamaica used to be very homophobic, now the situation chznged a bit although not much, Jamaica now has gay prides, and legal challenges, and the pinknews source saying its a life imprisonment is utterly wrong i never use it or use that site, The only one is barbados there and in both its clear the laws are not enforced And again the law is clear about what it says. Thank you, Cheers!! AdamPrideTN ( talk) 10:50, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
Thank you AdamPrideTN2 ( talk) 23:48, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
Hi! Do you know how the names of the five newly named Jovian moons ( Ersa, Pandia, Eupheme, Philophrosyne, and Eirene) should be pronounced? Double sharp ( talk) 07:18, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
Looking them up. Our article Pandion was wrong -- that's a long iota in Greek. — kwami ( talk) 07:56, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
Hi Kwami,
I was wondering if we could possibly make a distinction on the File:Same-sex marriage in the United States.svg same-sex marriage in the United States map between counties refusing to perform same-sex marriage and tribal nations that do not perform. I also am wondering if there is a way that tribes that do perform same-sex marriage could also be shown on the map. Currently, if a tribal nation performs, it gets blanked into the blue and my concern is that some who see the map might not get the nuance that some tribes recognize and some tribes do not; that some of these are counties, not tribal nations. I don't want people to get the perception that no tribes perform, thereby hurting people's perceptions of Indian Country. The counties could be with a different color; for tribal nations that perform, it could be noted either by another color, such as light blue, or it could be noted by an outline of the reservation. Or they could be "blanked into the blue" as they currently are. I'm open to debate on it.
Though I'm not sure what the end product would look like on the second request. Would it make said Nations look like Nations that do not perform?
Thanks,
- TenorTwelve ( talk) 01:04, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
The problem is that we don't have adequate sources. Of the ca. 500 'Tribes', do you even have a ref for which ones have their own marriage laws? We'd end up leaving the majority of those blank as 'unknown'. As it is, the list is certain to be incomplete. The ones that are there are either ones that have been in the news, or where we've been able to find their marriage laws. But I suspect that in a lot of cases the issue hasn't been decided yet, so we'd have that category in addition to 'don't know', if we could even tell them apart. It would be an absolute mess. As for distinguishing the Alabama counties, that would mean adding a color/category that doesn't exist on any of the other maps. Do you have any suggestions? (Light blue doesn't work, that has a different meaning.) — kwami ( talk) 01:12, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
A source that says how "papaveraceous" is pronounced is not a source for how "Papaveraceae" is pronounced. As an example, consider how "audacious" and "audacity" are pronounced. In the first, the "da" is as in "day", in the second as in "dash". A change of ending matters. You need a source for the word itself, not a related word. Peter coxhead ( talk) 20:23, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
Because I have no idea what you're basing this on and it will be hard to track down them all. Serendi pod ous 22:23, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
You mean for DPs? There are only two that are established to be in HE, Ceres and Pluto, per our sources in those articles. — kwami ( talk) 23:01, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
The ref to the moons is repeated several places in the Saturn articles. — kwami ( talk) 00:58, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
Because that's what the refs say, as I already told you. If you can debunk the ref, fine. Otherwise you're just edit-warring. — kwami ( talk) 22:14, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
This was published just 5 years ago in Nature, in an article working out the shape of the moon, which concluded that it froze out of equilibrium at approx. 32 Earth radii (it's now at 60). I actually got it from a reliable 2ary source that cited it, so it's even got that going for it. If it were wrong, Nature would've retracted it by now and I doubt ppl would still be citing it. It's far more likely that I misinterpreted it than that it's wrong, but you'd need to explain to me where I went wrong.
As for your second point, no, that doesn't follow. Luna has a solid rock mantle with a small metal core. The other large moons have ice mantles with rock cores, and may have global sub-surface oceans as well. I think the only other solid-rock ellipsoidal moon is Io, and that's melted by tidal forces. Europa's mostly rock as well, but we know it has an ocean, which by definition (it's liquid water) is in HE. So it could easily be the case that Luna has frozen out of equilibrium but that, say, Triton and Pluto have not. — kwami ( talk) 01:17, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
No, I was talking about the source that I used. I don't know why you don't just look it up. Your ref is interesting too, but it's several years older and doesn't comment on the more recent work published in Nature. — kwami ( talk) 01:31, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
BTW, Brown and others have noted that the size required for body to be in HE depends on its composition. The smallest possible rocky DP will be larger than the smallest possible icy DP. They also seem to have grossly underestimated the pressures that ice can withstand at those temperatures (e.g. see Grundy et al.). Early discussions of what could be a DP almost never took into account the fact that a body could relax into HE and later freeze out, though this did come up with Vesta and Phoebe. — kwami ( talk) 01:38, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
No, it's not a link. But you can copy the article title and do a search for it. You'll get a number of hits, some of which will be online copies of the article. I don't understand what's difficult here.
As for what the ref is, the ref is the ref. Author, date, article title, journal, volume, page numbers -- what more do you expect? — kwami ( talk) 01:41, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
It could be that the crust froze out of HE at ca. 32 earth radii but that the mantle is still in HE. That would seem to be an ambiguous situation. I don't recall the article saying anything like that, though. Your book ref also mentioned that the moon was not in a HE shape, and discussed the difficulties of explaining this. The Nature article does explain it, or at least tries to. As for saying it's "disputed", we'd need a RS that it's disputed. Us not understanding a ref isn't the same thing as a fact being disputed by the scientific community, not at all. Now, if you want to run this by Wikiproject astronomy and have them explain how I've misunderstood the article, that would be fine. But that wouldn't make it disputed either -- it would just make me wrong. — kwami ( talk) 02:08, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
Also, for the articles we mention this in other than Moon itself, we're mostly comparing dwarf/satellite planets that may or may not be in HE. Other than perhaps Ceres, all we have to go on is the shapes of their crusts. So if we're going to argue that the Moon really is in HE because its mantle is (if it turns out that's the case), then how can we discuss whether any other mid-sized body in the Solar System is in HE? All the ones that are in equilibrium shape could have frozen solid after they spun down, so it looks like they're still in HE, while for any that aren't in an equilibrium shape we could argue that they're really in HE but it's just invisible. It would make the concept utterly useless for classifying minor planets at our current state of knowledge. It may well be that the concept is useless for classification, of course, but I'd want some good sources that a body with a non-HE shape can be in HE, just as a body with an HE shape can be not in HE. — kwami ( talk) 02:16, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
Regarding the same-sex marriage map for Europe:
While I have mixed thoughts on removing other countries so the map only shows European countries, if we are only showing European countries, Kazakhstan is a European country, specifically, a transcontinental country in Europe and Asia. Note that Kazakhstan is listed as a European country on the LGBT rights in Europe page and the page for Europe. Would you mind adding Kazakhstan to the map?
Thanks,
- TenorTwelve ( talk) 09:22, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
Hi Kwami. I came across a user using ethnologue extensively (Re here) and seem to recall a discussion about whether it was a reliable source or not. Any ideas? -- regentspark ( comment) 23:28, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
Hi @ Kwamikagami: I have updated all the Indian languages figures as per Ethnologue 2019 source kindly correct it if I have done any wrong. Changes made Hindi, Bengali language, Tamil language, Kashmiri language, Marathi language, Punjabi language, Gujarati language, Telugu language, Kannada, Malayalam, Odia language, Nepali language. Also ensure that you don't remove the L2 speakers data as it would help people understand the native speakers and second language speakers.Thanks-- Caseasauria ( talk) 07:06, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
Hi, could you revert the move you did in that article? It is controversial and needs a consensus first. Open a move request in the talk page please. Also what's that () at the end?-- SharabSalam ( talk) 05:45, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
Your recent work on Finnic people created a disambiguation page. As a result, we now have a problem at Template:Ethnic groups in Europe. Could you please fix that link to the disambiguation page, as I assume that you know what group of Finns to point to. The Banner talk 09:10, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
resonances are not arithmetically exact fractions of other planets' orbits; they librate around a specific fraction and, over time, average out that fraction. Serendi pod ous 13:18, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
Hello, your redirect from Finnic peoples to Baltic Finns was without consensus - You did not ask for any feedback on this on the talk page. As a result, I am quite bothered by this. This topic has been discussed previously in length on the talk page of the article. There were specific reasons why the article was called Finnic peoples, not Baltic Finns. If you think "Baltic Finns" are a subgroup of "Finnic peoples", not a synonym, then please provide reliable academic references for that. All academic sources I have read so far treat finnic peoples and baltic finns as synonyms, not separate groups. Blomsterhagens ( talk) 20:37, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
@ Blomsterhagens: There are plenty of refs, as you can see w a simple Google search. Also, a large number of the links from WP articles to "Finnic peoples" were intended for the Volga Finns, or else where ambiguous between the Baltic, Volga and Permians, and no-one ever bothered to clean them up. These included articles on ethnography, history, religion, genetics, etc. Whoever wanted to change the definition of "Finnic" should have at least taken the responsibility to clean up the mess they left behind. I gave it a try, and redirected over a hundred articles, but there are still a couple dozen links to 'Finnic peoples' where I couldn't determine what the scope was supposed to be because our sources are ambiguous. I think history and genetics are probably the worst culprits for not defining what they mean by "Finnic", but in many cases they seem to mean something other than Baltic.
Given the mess we had, and the ambiguity of so many sources, IMO it's problematic to restrict "Finnic" to any one definition. Doing so will just cause confusion for editors using sources that use a different definition.
With linguistics, it seems to be more reasonable to have the Balto-Finnic languages at Finnic languages -- and indeed I think I'm the one who moved the article there -- because the linguistic sources we use for our articles usually (though not always) define the scope of what they mean by "Finnic". — kwami ( talk) 20:40, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
Yes, but they can mean two different things. "German people" get more hits than "Germanic peoples", but that doesn't mean we should rename the latter. Also, we have separate articles on the Volga Finns, Permians and Saami. It would be weird to not have an article on the Baltic Finns, and that's clearly what many people were understanding the article to be (e.g. check the categories). If you want to merge the articles, that's fine by me, or if you want to split off the generic stuff to the 'Finnic' article and leave the specific stuff to Baltic, Volga, Permian etc., that would be fine too (and probably better, give the length of the articles). But not having an article on the Balto-Finnic peoples, when we have hundreds of incoming links, would be quite confusing. I suppose we could have a stub that essentially says 'the Baltic Finns aren't worth a WP article', as you are effectively suggesting, but that would hardly be encyclopedic.
And really, if the current article is so badly written that you can't tell what it's talking about, then it desperately needs rewriting. We shouldn't move it to an ambiguous name because we don't know what the scope is supposed to be. I'm happy to have a generic Finnic article in addition to a Balto-Finnic article. I'd be fine with the Balto-Finnic article being called "Finnic" if we were consistent across WP and could clean things up to support that. — kwami ( talk) 21:05, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
Check the incoming links to Finnic peoples. Can you tell what they're supposed to be? Many of them characterize the Finnic peoples as Siberian. And that's after I renamed dozens of "Finnic" links to Volga Finns or Permians.
Also, if you think 'Finnic' and 'Balto-Finnic' are synonyms, why were you having trouble figuring out whether the article covered all the Finnic peoples or just the Baltic Finns, and think the article would need to be split? — kwami ( talk) 21:17, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
( edit conflict) Yes, the ideal solution would be to rename the links. But, as I explained above, many of the sources are ambiguous, so what should they be renamed to? And given the many many ambiguous sources, who's going to police all new links that people add in the future? It's obvious no-one ever tried, before I cleaned things up. And since I won't be policing the 'links here' list, it's likely that no-one will. (Before you volunteer, remember that you'll need to police it as long as Wikipedia exists, or can hand the job off to someone with the dedication to do that.) Thus using an ambiguous name for a narrower scope will just lapse back into confusion. Regardless of whether we like the name, 'Baltic Finns' at least has the benefit that the reader can tell what it's talking about. Better to have a disliked but clear title than an article that's so confused in scope as to be useless to our readers. I'd be happy to have some other name, but it needs to be functional. — kwami ( talk) 21:19, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
But neither 'Finnic' nor 'Balto-Finnic' are wrong. A closer analogy would be whether to name it 'Finland' or the 'Republic of Finland'. If there were several polities that were named 'Finland', and hundreds of sources used the name 'Finland' to mean something other than the republic (if, say, the word 'Finland' were commonly used to mean the non-Swedish parts of the republic, plus Karelia, Lapland and the Volga basin), then it might make sense to move 'Finland' to 'Republic of Finland'. Especially if many sources used in our articles were so ambiguous that we couldn't tell which 'Finland' they were referring to. — kwami ( talk) 21:32, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
'Again'? You never said that. And now that you have, it's clear you don't know what you're talking about. The Finns and Estonians are Uralic too, to the extent that 'Uralic' has any ethnological meaning at all. As to whether the others speak Finnic languages, according to some sources they do. But that's a question of linguistic classification, which is largely irrelevant to which peoples are "Finnic". Just the fact that you called them the "Volga Finns" is an admission that they're called "Finns" in the lit. So, when some source says "Finns", who are they referring to? How do we tell? And how do we police WP to ensure that all the links go to the correct Finnic article? — kwami ( talk) 21:43, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
No, I'm not going to sabotage Wikipedia because you don't like something. As for helping, are you going to dedicate the rest of your life to policing the links, and pass that responsibility on to your heirs when you die? The current name may not reflect your definition of the word, but that doesn't may it "factually incorrect". And again, I'd be perfectly happy to have the article at some other name, but it needs to be unambiguous so as to not regenerate the problems that needed clean-up. If have a reasonable alternative, including a dab like "Finnic peoples (...)", please share. — kwami ( talk) 21:47, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
No, I'm not going to waste my time. You can go a little work. Once again (it's annoying to keep having to repeat myself), you can check the incoming links for the sources. — kwami ( talk) 21:52, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
What do you mean you "didn't find any"? That can only mean you didn't bother to look. If you're not going to make even a modicum of effort, then I'm done wasting my time with you. — kwami ( talk) 21:57, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
Another clear source, this time from the University of Tartu is here, map 97. It clearly marks the areas of the Finnic peoples. It also clearly notes that the Finnic people are often also called "Baltic Finns", thus again confirming that these two terms are synonyms. Blomsterhagens ( talk) 15:53, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
Edit: *If* some sources group these peoples differently, then that should be covered on the main Finnic peoples article as a subtopic. But the article itself should *not* have been renamed just because inter-WP linking is incorrect in places. Also, maybe as another solution, there can be a Finnic peoples page and a Finnic peoples (disambiguation) page. Blomsterhagens ( talk) 15:58, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
As I read the law passed, if NI gets its act together on Monday, October 21st, then a good chunk of this bill including the Marriage Equality is N&V. The chance the NI Executive gets its act together is tiny, but not zero, IMO.
Hi. Could you help me with the translation of the colour description under the maps from russian articles about same-sex marriage? In the articles "Однополый брак" and "Однополые браки в США" you inserted maps with incorrect translation of the colour description. The meaning of the translation does not quite correspond to the original in English. Probably there was used automatic translation.
Under this map [File:World marriage-equality laws (up to date).svg],
— the line “Ограниченное признание браков за границей” should be replaced by “Ограниченное признание иностранных браков”.
Under this map [File:Same-sex marriage in the United States.svg],
— the line “Гомосексуальное признание брака в Соединенных Штатах” should be replaced by “Правовой статус однополых браков в Соединённых Штатах”;
— the line “Однополые браки заключены” should be replaced by “Заключаются однополые браки”;
— the line “Признание иностранных однополых браков” should be replaced by “Однополые браки признаются, но не заключаются”;
— the line “Нет признания (тире: смешанная юрисдикция)” should be replaced by “Однополые браки не признаются (полосы: смешанные юрисдикции)”.
I will be grateful for the help.
Shinkai20 (
talk)
15:17, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
Hi, you said "Finnic peoples" is an ambiguous term. It's as ambiguous as "Finno-Ugric peoples" or "Uralic peoples". If the ambiguity arises from the fact that we don't know if the finnic peoples are in the Baltic area or in the Siberian area, then saying "spoken around the baltic sea by finnic peoples" solves that problem, no? Blomsterhagens ( talk) 10:23, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, that would work fine. Or we could just remove the word 'around', which I just did -- though the greater precision of your wording may be better. BTW, I rv'd the change from FU to Uralic ppls, as I figured an ethnic article should link to another ethnic article. If we're gonna use the language article, maybe better to alert the reader by saying 'who speak Uralic languages'. — kwami ( talk) 18:09, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
Not a vandal... I just like going to the Syria War page for the map to see how it is going. Took me 5 minutes see where it'd gone.
I now see I can expand it, so I personally am good. But want to help other people be able to see the info, which as far as I'm aware is the best, most updated, map on the internet.
I'm a newb, but hope you and other editors will fix the infobox soon to conform with technical standards so that other people can easily see the info! — Preceding unsigned comment added by MaximumIdeas ( talk • contribs) 19:50, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
@ MaximumIdeas: Yeah, it's a real mess. Not going to be fixed any time soo, I don't think. I just started a vote on how to fix it, if you want to state your pref (on the article's talk page). — kwami ( talk) 19:57, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
@ Kwamikagami: Yeah. Thanks for the poll, just responded there. MaximumIdeas ( talk) 20:10, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
Hi, what about starting a new Uralic peoples page? Even if it's just a disambiguation page at first. The fact that Uralic peoples links to a language page is clearly something that could be fixed. Blomsterhagens ( talk) 21:40, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
No, we had consensus to delete that article. There's no coherent subject of "Uralic peoples" apart from the Finno-Ugric peoples, and those are only a valid topic because there are some FU cultural associations, and even then it's usually more Finnic than Finno-Ugric. It's not like the Nenets, Saami and Magyar have a shared ethnic identity. It would be an appropriate article if it discussed the culture etc of the speakers of proto-Uralic (e.g., 'Indo-European peoples' redirects to 'Proto-Indo-Europeans'), but currently there's probably not enough to split off the language-family article. (And it should probably be called s.t. like 'Proto-Uralians'.)
THere used to be a lot of "X peoples" articles, where X was some language family. But ethnographic article should be justifiable as ethnography, which some linguistic cladistic model is not. Most of them were complete garbage, and were magnets for additional garbage, and the few useful bits could be merged into the family article or relevant ethnographic articles where they were less likely to attract crackpots. I mean, we had spurious articles on 'Altaic peoples', 'Nilo-Saharan peoples', 'Papuan peoples', 'Sino-Tibetan peoples', as if they had any objective reality. We made a rare exception for Finno-Ugric peoples, because of those cultural associations, but I wonder if it shouldn't be merged with Finnic peoples. — kwami ( talk) 22:01, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
I understand that Finnic and FU are not synonyms. What I was wondering was whether there was enough of a distinction to bother with two articles. Your Balto-Slavic comparison doesn't work because there's no 'Balto-Slavic people' either. As for a dab page, what use would it serve? A rd to the language-family article is sufficient. What other links would there be?
Yes, there's a lot of nonsense in the lit by people who reify linguistic theories because they're unwilling or incapable of doing the ethnographic work. That doesn't mean we should follow. There are also a lot of people who use the phrase "Uralic people(s)" as shorthand for "people who speak Uralic languages", but that belongs in the language-family article. If it had its own article, we'd be constantly fighting with people who don't know better than to take the phrase literally, as an ethnic identification. One of the problems with doing that is that when language theories change, it looks as though people's ethnic identities change. There is no "Ugric people", for example, just a linguistic theory that many have now abandoned. Ethnicity doesn't depend on what linguists identify or reject. (E.g., if we discovered that an undocumented purportedly Saami language -- classified as such based on the ethnic identity of its speakers -- was actually Finnic, Germanic or a creole, etc., that wouldn't mean the people were no longer Saami.) — kwami ( talk) 22:41, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
Hi, maybe you can give your opinion on this topic on the talk page. I don't understand the reasoning for discounting a source by the editor. Or why the word itself is an issue. Blomsterhagens ( talk) 23:02, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
Hey,
I know this is not a commonly used term, but what are your thoughts on something like that for the alternative article title for Baltic Finnic peoples? The current title is good enough, but as you also mentioned, and has been mentioned in literature, whenever "Baltic" is included, it tends to be confused with "Baltic peoples". I wonder how to best approach this issue. Or "Finnic peoples of the Baltic Sea", or "Finnic peoples of Northeastern Europe". Thoughts? Blomsterhagens ( talk) 15:06, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
@ Blomsterhagens: Yes, I've seen West Finnic as well, but as I think I mentioned somewhere, they aren't necessarily synonyms. When I saw it, the Mari were identified as a West Finnic people (presumably contrasting with the Permians?).
As for possible confusion, I don't think it's a problem in a dedicated article, unlike a broader-topic book that switches back and forth between multiple peoples. We have hat notes and the lead sentence to take care of that -- hat notes for topics it might be confused with, and the lead sentence to ID exactly what the topic is. The problem with making up new titles is that they may have unforseen connotations. Especially informal phrasing such as this, which will likely be taken literally. If a Mari family moved to Tallinn, they would arguably be 'Finnic people by the Baltic Sea', while the Veps and Karelians aren't really by the sea. I think that might be a greater potential for confusion than 'Baltic Finn(ic)', some variant of which is the usual wording when disambiguation is needed. — kwami ( talk) 18:08, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
Hi kwami!
The page Lexical similarity – which is heavily Ethnologue-leaning – mentions "a standardized set of wordlists" employed to establish figures of similarity. The wording on the Ethnologue site actually is "a set of standardized wordlists", but what bugs me more: are you aware of any concrete and publicly accessible wordlist which is universally used by the Ethnologue team? I only know a couple of SIL lists for specific regions. Any non-specialist reading the page is left with no idea about what a basic wordlist means (check the wise-cracking comments on the Talk page about the 60%-similarity between German and English). For want of better information, I have added a link to Swadesh list, the mother of all wordlists, but a reference to more concrete material would be ideal. – Austronesier ( talk) 13:40, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
Sorry, I don't. In the case of published findings, they may specify the wordlist, but AFAIK that info is not generally available. Even if a ref is given in the Ethn. language article, there isn't always a corresponding entry in the biblio. — kwami ( talk) 18:59, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
Na na na na na, na na na na na na na. Na na na na? Na, na na na; na na na na-na na na.
Na!
(Wandered over and saw User:Kwamikagami#Proto-human_(language). Love it. Made me think of that one scene from "Being John Malkovich" where Malkovich winds up inside his own head.
Related faves of mine: Deriving Proto-World with tools you probably have at home, and How likely are chance resemblances between languages? Cheers! ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 20:04, 25 October 2019 (UTC))
Hi, I've nominated the redirect Yogyakarta Sign Langauge for deletion. The discussion is at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 November 4#Redirects with "langauge". Thanks! – Uanfala (talk) 14:16, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
And now one more: Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2019_November_8#East_Central_zone. – Uanfala (talk) 01:17, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
Hi kwami! Have you noticed, looks as if SIL has scrapped the OA language pages from earlier editions from the Ethnologue website. We have thousands of dead links now... – Austronesier ( talk) 16:42, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
Google didn't find a single other site with the wording "360,000 in Benin (2006). Population total all countries: 550,000.", apart from one that tries to download a doc. So if SIL just changed the addresses, Google hasn't discovered that yet. But I don't see a link for previous editions any more. — kwami ( talk) 23:44, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
There were a number of discussions about Pōwehi when the name was proposed. [5] [6] The general consensus was that we shouldn't include mention of it. I would be interested in hearing your reasons for the change at Talk:Messier 87 but for now I have undone your recent edit. -- mikeu talk 00:31, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
Hi Kwamikagami, I was wondering if we can just close that discussion about moving Sana’a to Sana'a by simply reverting your move. You didn't start a discussion before the move. I think we need to just move all Sana’a articles that you moved, back to the stable version (Sana'a) and then we can have a proper RM to either Sanaa or Sana’a. Do you think that would be okay?. Thanks.-- SharabSalam ( talk) 10:48, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
Your obsession with what is or is not a DP or what is or is not in HE has not been backed up by any citations or reliable secondary sources and is only serving to clutter Wikipedia with confusing contradictions. Build up your source base before using Wikipedia as your platform. Serendi pod ous 15:12, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
Hi kwami, just to give you a picture of the IP who keeps us busy: [7]. Found him (safely use a gender pronoun here ;) in the page history of "Aragonese people". – Austronesier ( talk) 15:40, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
And what does any of that have to do with you claiming that certain peoples form an ethnic group based solely on some linguistic hypothesis? When the hypothesis is rejected, do they cease to be cousins? If you can define ethnicity independently of language, and then see how closely it corresponds to language, fine. But if you define ethnicity based on language, and then justify it because the languages are related, then you're engaged in circular reasoning. There's too much of that kind of garbage on WP as it is. — kwami ( talk) 22:25, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for uploading File:Thunder Bay CBC sign in Ojibwe.png, which you've attributed to CBC. I noticed that while you provided a valid copyright licensing tag, there is no proof that the creator of the file has agreed to release it under the given license.
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Greetings! I am writing to you regarding the topic of Slovenia you partook in earlier today.
To be perfectly honest, I was relieved when you appeared in the talk section - I remember you from a couple of years ago when there was some row of similar nature (I fail to recall the specifics, sadly - but you made a stance of sufficient memorability that after all this time, I still remember it).
I have also just published my reply to Jingiby's arbitrary inclusion of inaccurate and fallacious information in pursuit of certain personal agenda that is, at least to me, in contrary to the broadest sense of what Wikipedia is about - sharing knowledge backed by established, neutral and generally attainable sources of no dubious nature and detached from any subjective sentiment.
I have made three attempts to correct his "additions", only for my contributions (for which I provided a reference that was already in place before - the CIA World Factbook) to be reverted, with the reversion being accompanied with his warning of an imminent block or ban (as you can see on my talk page). His talk page is inaccessable to me, furthermore, browsing through his recent history of edits, it becomes apparent he engages in a certain, to use a term of much informality, "moral crusade", disregarding any sort of received criticism. That shows in his unilateral neglect of my referenced points, not discussing their contents (that directly contradict the information he provided) but rather replying with subjective excerpts from obscure sources that do not, as is evident, deal with the topic at hand in any way, even emphasising derogatory sentiments reminiscent of the rhetoric of Milosevic's regime in the 90s (to explain - in the Serbian media, Slovenia was presented as an entity of traitors who wanted to abandon the "Motherland" Serbia, picturing them as a group of people who regarded themselves as "superior" - the stance apparently adopted by D.Norris whom Jingiby cited). Sadko's inclusion in the debate follows the same pattern.
In such situation, I turn to you - I have been a Wikipedia editor before (though a long time ago - so long in fact, I had to make a new account to contribute in this specific matter as I forgot my previous username), but have never experienced anything of that sort. I usually shrug such things off, yet this one is an exception - both because of his obvious political motive determining the nature of his contributions and the effect his inclusion could have (Wikipedia is after all the leading source of reference material on the Internet, with articles of countries being a major factor in the way a certain country is percieved) on the readers of the article. For that reason, I ask - what can be done in order to permanently restore the former state of the page? I am not familiar with reports on vandalism or spamming, neither on contacting the RCP.
I am deeply grateful for your help! -- Øksfjord ( talk) 19:01, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
BTW, if this is a dispute that is likely to recur, it is probably best to have a mediated discussion on the talk page to come to some kind of consensus. Who knows, you and Jingiby might come to respect each other as editors and find you can work together. If you can do that, then in the future if someone tries to change the result, you can revert them and refer to the prior consensus as justification. If the dispute escalates, people are likely to side with you because of that prior consensus, unless the new party wants to re-open the debate and come to a new consensus -- but they'd need to do that on the talk page before changing the article. — kwami ( talk) 19:44, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
This very alibi confronts us with the first of many paradoxes concerning Balkan: its geographic delimitation was never precise. It is as if one can never receive a definitive answer to the question, "Where does it begin?" For Serbs, it begins down there in Kosovo or Bosnia, and they defend the Christian civilization against this Europe's Other. For Croats, it begins with the Orthodox, despotic, Byzantine Serbia, against which Croatia defends the values of democratic Western civilization. For Slovenes, it begins with Croatia, and we Slovenes are the last outpost of the peaceful Mitteleuropa. For Italians and Austrians, it begins with Slovenia, where the reign of the Slavic hordes starts. For Germans, Austria itself, on account of its historic connections, is already tainted by the Balkanic corruption and inefficiency. For some arrogant Frenchmen, Germany is associated with the Balkanian Eastern savagery — up to the extreme case of some conservative anti-European-Union Englishmen for whom, in an implicit way, it is ultimately the whole of continental Europe itself that functions as a kind of Balkan Turkish global empire with Brussels as the new Constantinople, the capricious despotic center threatening English freedom and sovereignty. So Balkan is always the Other: it lies somewhere else, always a little bit more to the southeast, with the paradox that, when we reach the very bottom of the Balkan peninsula, we again magically escape Balkan. Greece is no longer Balkan proper, but the cradle of our Western civilization.
Thanks for that! I wonder if it would be acceptable in the article. — kwami ( talk) 22:03, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, I love it. I added it to Balkans, but it's probably a bit long for some people. I can't see any good way to trim it, though. — kwami ( talk) 22:40, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
Hi kwami! It's quite a while, but can you remember the source for this edit? I can't find anything about it in DeLancey's publications, and there's a cn-tag from 2007. Was it a Linguist List post, or maybe p.c.? I want to add some info about a 2018 paper that DeLancey has published in AA about Inland Penutian, where he restricts it to Yok-Utian and Plateau, so I'm not quite sure whether I should leave the old stuff in the subsection "Recent hypotheses" or just scrap it. – Austronesier ( talk) 15:42, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
here is his 1996 "Penutian in the bipartite stem belt: Disentangling areal and genetic correspondences", which should give some clues as to his position a decade before I made that edit. — kwami ( talk) 17:26, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
Mithun 1999 selected Delancey & Golla 1997 (The Penutian Hypothesis, retrospect and prospects. IJAL 63, 171-202) as the primary source at the time.
Golla 2011 (The California Indian Languages) gives the following 'provisional' subgrouping -
---
Sounds good. I don't know the paper is unpublished, however. It might be that he was cited by someone else, and if he still agrees with it, it might be worth keeping. — kwami ( talk) 19:07, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
I don't understand why you moved Bahá’í literature → Bahá’í literature (). "not punctuation"?? Please explain, thanks. wbm1058 ( talk) 22:08, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
Yes, both of those got messed up. Replied on Wbm's talk page. — kwami ( talk) 22:16, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
Thanks. I've tagged both spurious pages for deletion, as they have no incoming links. — kwami ( talk) 23:30, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
Hi, your AWB edits appear to be consistently moving short descriptions down in the article, placing them after hatnotes and protection templates (like here). But they're meant to be at the very top, before anything else: MOS:ORDER. I really hope that's not a bug in AWB. – Uanfala (talk) 21:18, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, that's a bug in AWB. I have it set for 'apply general fixes'. — kwami ( talk) 21:20, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
haven't seen you in a while. ♦ Lingzhi2 (talk) 23:59, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
Hi Lingnut! Yeah, been a while. Didn't recognize your new name. — kwami ( talk) 08:54, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
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Hey Kwamikagami, I was looking at contributors to the family of IPA-x templates, such as Template:IPA-ja and your name appeared a lot, which is why I'm here. There was a recent discussion about a different group of language templates (xx-icon) that had the same design approach as these - a template for each language. That discussion resulted in changing the design to one template that accepts as a parameter the language - so in this example, instead of {{ IPA-ja}} it would be {{IPA|ja}}. For editors, the change is very minimal as instead of a hyphen they use a vertical bar, but the behind the scenes can now be maintained much more reasonably. Now if you want to apply a change to all templates, you need to update each individual template, once consolidated, there is need for only one edit. As you seem to be one of the maintainers of these templates, would you know where the correct place would be to discuss such a change before TfD? -- Gonnym ( talk) 14:13, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
Re this name shift, there is no contemporary 'community' I know of self-identifying as wekiweki, which is just one of several spellings. Could you elucidate? Thanks in anticipation. Nishidani ( talk) 12:22, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
Murray River between a point 15 miles (24 km.)above Murrumbidgee Junction and Swan Hill; at Piangil;extending northward to about Moolpa, N.S.W. According to Cameron, the name Narinari is also applied to this tribe but there is some evidence to show they are separate peoples.According to Stone, the Wembawemba called the dialect of the Watiwati tribe Burrea.
Tyrrell Creek and Lake Tyrrell south to Warracknabeal and Birchip; west to Hopetoun; on Morton Plains.p.208
Sure. Go ahead and move it back (or I will). I don't know the lit, so you decide what's best. — kwami ( talk) 22:37, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
Hi kwami, we have talked about it before, but maybe you want to mention the case of Muna as an attested occurrence: [9], p. 19.
There is further a fresh MA thesis about the Central Flores languages (yup, I've already created an article from it and other sources): [10]. Unfortunately, Elias only goes into detail for Lio, where he describes the implosive as apico-alveolar (p. 31). There is also a sketch for Ngadha, but here he lumps all apical and laminal consonants as "coronals" (p. 82). So it's neither a confirmation nor a contradiction for the old claim that Ngadha has a retroflex implosive. – Austronesier ( talk) 15:40, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
Hi Kwamikagami, I recently finished an article for Santiago Baháʼí Temple, which has (after some difficulty) been moved to the mainspace. Now I am hoping to add a bunch of redirects because of the wide range of names used to identify the building, but I can't seem to understand the orthography conventions. I saw you corrected the Baháʼí orthography for several articles so I wanted to ask you: how do you tell the three versions of the accents apart in order to 1) use the correct one, and 2) add separate redirects for all of them? It would be great if you could briefly clarify this for me ( Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Bahá'í spelling does not seem to help). Thanks very much. Gazelle55 ( talk) 21:09, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
Here's how you can test if the hamza/ayin letters are correct. Clip the word and paste in the search box. I just tried that with the <ʼ> in the <Baháʼí> in your article title, and it took me to modifier letter apostrophe. Note that's a Unicode letter, and so correct for transcribing a letter. If your search had instead taken you to quotation mark, then it would've been the wrong code point (a punctuation mark rather than a letter -- this can make a difference in computer files even if they look the same).
Similarly, if you search for the <ʻ> in <ʻAlí>, it will take you to ʻokina, which is an alphabetic letter an therefor correct. Again, if it had taken you to 'quotation mark', it would've been wrong. BTW, in the 'okina article they show how 'okina and the quote mark look a little different in a good font. I believe that Hawaiians chose the six-shape for 'okina rather than the nine-shape so that it would be easily distinguished from a curly apostrophe. — kwami ( talk) 23:05, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
If you search the page for ASCII <'>, you'll find all instances of curly quotes as well. I just did that in your article, and it looks like there's just one curly quote in the text, a bunch in the refs, and one in the external links. The only straight ASCII apostrophe in another word/name is in Mashriqu'l-Adhkár, but that actually is an apostrophe (a contraction of the article "al") and so correct. — kwami ( talk) 23:16, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
I see you have submitted articles to Featured article review in the past six months. Here is a template listing FAs (and dates) with talk page notifications that a Featured article review is needed. According to the FAR instructions, after waiting five to seven days to see if anyone engages to address the issues, anyone can bring an article to FAR, subject to a) no more than one nomination every two weeks; and b) no more than four nominations on the page at one time, unless permission for more is given by a FAR coordinator. Regards, SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 21:29, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
In the future, please discuss changes on talk pages before doing major reorganizing of articles on Papuan language families.
What is your rationale for following Usher's classifications? Those are not mainstream classifications. There is way too much lumping that confuses areal influences with genetic inheritance. Foley, Hammarstrom, Pawley, and other Papuanists show strong evidence that Papuan families need to be split, not lumped. As you may already know, Usher operates on the fringes of Papuan linguistics, and his classifications are not universally accepted. For example, Taiap is certainly not Torricelli, but Usher claims it is.
Foja Range languages and South Pauwasi languages are not in Glottolog, Ethnologue, or any other major publication, and I suggest we wait until these proposed families can be better demonstrated. — Sagotreespirit ( talk) 04:55, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
I have no problem with splitting the article, but you're misusing the word ' hypothesis'. And 'alternative' to which classification, since these languages are otherwise unclassified? (Hammerstrom misuses the term 'isolate' to mean 'unclassified'.) As for definitive groupings, there are none in New Guinea, not even Austronesian, whose limits there are unclear in many places and will require the other families to be worked out. Wurm is obsolete. Ross is based almost entirely on 1sg and 2sg PNs, which are insufficient (and the remainder is typology, which is not reliable). Wichmann is an automated comparison, which is unreliable. Pawley is far more lumpist than Usher. — kwami ( talk) 20:18, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
My problem wasn't with the word 'likely', but that you had misattributed the sources.
Usher does not claim NWNG is demonstrated. It is a tentative proposal, with the similarities perhaps being due to loans rather than inheritance -- thus the label 'proposed' in the info box. Papuan Gulf and NENG are also still tentative.
BTW, it appears that Foley also misuses the term 'isolate'. An isolate is an established language family, not a language that is so poorly attested that we can't be sure of its relations. E.g., in his subchapter on "The isolate Elseng", Foley says it is "very poorly documented" and that proposed classifications are not warranted by available evidence or are not established. Such languages are more properly called 'unclassified'. There are only a few established isolates in New Guinea, as it takes much more complete data to show that a language isn't related to all potential relatives than it is to show that it is related to just one of them. — kwami ( talk) 03:03, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
Hello, Which is correct ? Thanks. ( Jkrn111 ( talk) 00:10, 4 February 2020 (UTC)).
Hello. Please can you help out with fixing links to dab Khariboli, especially those from templates? It's not obvious to the layman which meaning is intended. Thanks, Certes ( talk) 22:53, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
I fixed most of them. But for many I have no idea which it is. — kwami ( talk) 08:31, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
Hello Kwami. ( Jkrn111 ( talk) 13:15, 26 February 2020 (UTC)).
Hi. I just went back to Foley, and realized that he used "Upper Yuat" as well, so I'll move the article. I've been avoiding Usher's names when they differ from the rest of the lit, and missed that this wasn't his invention. — kwami ( talk) 23:04, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
I put in a tech move request. — kwami ( talk) 23:30, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
Please take a look at the talk page for List of adjectivals and demonyms of astronomical bodies You've been making quite a few edits to that page recently. The recent comments on the talk page are from editors who don't even think the article should exist, or at least should be drastically modified (with much of the content removed.) Fcrary ( talk) 22:40, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
I know you are currently busy adding content to infoboxes for natural satellite pages, but I would like to let you know that the last numbers of the satellite designation should be preceded by a space, like S/2010 J 1. Nrco0e ( talk · contribs) 05:35, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
Hi, Why do you think this is an imitation? The description from the author doesn't seem to accredit your assumption. -- Basile Morin ( talk) 08:53, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
FYI, links to Lsjbot articles for NG geo features are at User:Sagotreespirit/New Guinea geography. Hoping to get started when I have some time. Many of the Cebuano articles cite only Geonames, so we'll need to dig up some more RS. — Sagotreespirit ( talk) 01:11, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
Thanks a lot. I was dreading creating PNG maps for all of them, and just gave up. The dot on a generic map is enough to start, and if some of them become more important, maybe someone will create more detailed maps. At least we have stubs to link to now. — kwami ( talk) 02:36, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
The lists here should also be pretty useful. Many district and village names correspond to language and dialect names.
— Sagotreespirit ( talk) 22:01, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
Template:Infobox ethnic group has been
nominated for merging with
Template:Infobox ethnonym. You are invited to comment on the discussion at
the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you.
PPEMES (
talk)
14:05, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
I am in awe of your work. Kudos. Double sharp ( talk) 12:00, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
Hello, Kwami, Could You please help if possible ? Please Look at my talk page, the last discussion. I am confused, You never had problem with my way of categorization. We worked together. Am I still allowed to continue editing the way you know well? I created many categories (maybe more than one hundred) and it was ok for admins. Please let me know. Thank You Very Much. Jan ( Jkrn111 ( talk) 12:13, 31 March 2020 (UTC)).
Hello Kwami, ? btw, thank you for your help. Jan K., Prague ( Jkrn111 ( talk) 13:02, 1 April 2020 (UTC)).
Should I delete the category Kaki Ae–Eleman then ? ( Jkrn111 ( talk) 13:11, 1 April 2020 (UTC)).
If it's already there, you might as well leave it. It's more precise -- some don't accept the connection between Kaki Ae and Eleman proper, and for them 'Eleman' means only the latter. The name 'Kerema Bay' AFAICT is specific to Usher. — kwami ( talk) 13:14, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
--— kwami ( talk) 12:25, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Hi kwami, wouldn't adding |descendant=
to the template "Infobox language" be a good idea here? "Dialect" looks more than odd... We could also use it for attested languages like
Kawi or
Middle English. –
Austronesier (
talk)
11:50, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, you're right. I forgot about that param. Won't work if there's more than one, but better when listing the entire family together. — kwami ( talk) 11:54, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Those aren't available yet. Probably easier just to create a new info box, with ancestors and descendents. — kwami ( talk) 12:11, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
If the articles become developed enough, we might want a proto-lang info box. As of now few of them have are, though -- even Uralic and Afrasiatic only have two branch articles apiece. — kwami ( talk) 12:00, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
|fam1=
Kra–Dai
and |fam2=
Tai
.
Kanguole
12:05, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
|fam1=Proto-Kra–Dai
is clearly wrong, because that is not "the broadest possible widely accepted language family of which the language is a part". That is Kra–Dai.|dia1=Tai languages
is wrong, because Tai is not a "primary dialect" of Proto-Tai. Replacing it is a more difficult issue.
Kanguole
12:30, 5 April 2020 (UTC)What about this [12]? – Austronesier ( talk) 12:15, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
I can try creating a box tomorrow, if neither of you wants to, and we can see how it works. Also, I don't see any need to append 'language' to the article titles, do you? — kwami ( talk) 12:41, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
{{
infobox proto-language}}
.
Kanguole
15:12, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Okay, I've added the new {{ infobox proto-language}} to Proto-Indo-European and some of its children. Proto-Balto-Slavic and Proto-Indo-Iranian illustrate cases with both ancestors and children. Kanguole added a 'family' field that duplicates the 'children' field,, we should probably discuss where we want the fields relative to each other and how we want them worded. Maybe we could call that field 'members' or something. — kwami ( talk) 22:28, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
|family=
, which you had deleted. In {{
infobox language family}}
, |children=
is an alternative to |child1=
... |childN=
, and it would be less confusing to have the same correspondence here.That is true. But the 'family' parameters do something different in our family and language info boxes -- they create a tree, which would be inappropriate here -- so calling it 'family' may also be confusing. 'Members' might be better as an abbreviation for 'family members'. If 'family', 'children' and 'members' are all inappropriate or inaccurate to varying degrees, which is the least confusing? Or would some other term work? — kwami ( talk) 22:42, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
|protolanguage_of=
? |reconstructed_family=
?
Kanguole
22:53, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
|descendent_family=
to match. 'members' is just nonsense.
Kanguole
11:50, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
And do we want the family members to be required? Take Proto-Tocharian, for example, where they're redundant. — kwami ( talk) 22:45, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
There's a syntax error w the listclass param I don't know how to handle. Mentioned on the template talk page. — kwami ( talk) 00:00, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
I changed to your suggested wording. We can see how we like that. Re. the links, yes, that was my intention. These would be nav boxes among the reconstructions. Apart from IE, there aren't many families where there's much to navigate, but that could change. Especially if we link to sections, there's a lot that can be done with Papuan languages.
If we only list children with links, the good is that we don't get a bunch of possibly invalid names that don't go anywhere, and e.g. in Proto-Uto-Aztecan, with the single link to Proto-Nahuan, it's obvious that's what's going on. But if we have most of the children, as e.g. at Proto-Indo-Iranian, then that could cause some confusion. In that case I added Proto-Nuristani even though there's nothing to link to. But if we insist on not listing children unless there's something to link to, maybe that will encourage people to write on them? It should also make it easier to keep track of bogus articles, since crackpots will likely want to include their fantasies in the infoboxes. — kwami ( talk) 10:29, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
Yes, I just added an 'acceptance' param for things like Altaic, to parallel how we treat dubious families. There are other cases, e.g. proto-Finno-Ugric and proto-Tibeto-Burman, which may be the same as their supposed parent.
But, very often when there's disagreement about subgrouping, no-one's ever reconstructed those subgroups. Where they have, then we will usually have sources to be able to say something substantial about the issues involved, or at least to be able to cover the debate. Where there are Ethnologue-type subgroupings based on lexicostatistics or generic similarities without reconstruction, then those we wouldn't list in the infobox. That's why I wanted to specify that the children are protolanguages and not just divisions, and equally that the superior clades are protolanguages and not just replicate the hierarchies of our family articles. — kwami ( talk) 10:54, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
I think Nuristani's been reconstructed, but not sure. Eastern Baltic has as well, I think.
Reasonable reconstruction using the comparative method, with regular sound correspondences. I believe Altaic qualifies, even if many doubt the results are valid. Perhaps Dene-Yeniseian does as well, though if all that's been done is the verbal suffixes, IMO that wouldn't be enough. We can leave it to others to evaluate whether the reconstructions are successful, but not everything needs a box. — kwami ( talk) 11:32, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
Any idea how to handle Proto-Norse? Is it more like Old English than an actual protolang? Same with Common Brittonic, though that seems to be clearer. Both should maybe be removed from the protolang category. — kwami ( talk) 13:13, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
Okay, removed. — kwami ( talk) 04:30, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
![]() |
The Papua New Guinean Barnstar of National Merit | |
Thank you for your many years of tireless work on articles of Papuan languages! Here's something to add to your long list of barnstars. (Although admittedly, this is just for " East New Guinea Highlands languages" and other Papuan languages on the eastern half of the island.) — Sagotreespirit ( talk) 09:56, 20 April 2020 (UTC) | ||
this WikiAward was given to Kwamikagami by — Sagotreespirit ( talk) on 09:56, 20 April 2020 (UTC) |
Thanks! — kwami ( talk) 10:17, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
Maté is a hypercorrection or hyperforeignism. That's referenced. While both are used in English, marketing tends to support the hyperforeignism, but it's no reason that we should. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 22:35, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
All the dictionaries do as well. If you disagree with standard English usage, you're pushing your opinion of what English should be, which is not how WP works. — kwami ( talk) 22:38, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
It's hardly a personal attack to say you should be able to use a dictionary. You should. I checked five standard dictionaries, and they all disagree with you. Calling English orthography "hyperforeignism" doesn't change the fact that it's English orthography. You can campaign to reform it, but until you succeed we need to follow what is. — kwami ( talk) 22:44, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
DICT has nothing do to with this. Perhaps you should read that as well. — kwami ( talk) 22:44, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
It's one thing to argue about which form is better supported by COMMON or some other WP naming convention, but it's a bit much to actually censor English to match its source languages, essentially a form of hypercorrection (like people who pronounce Paris "puh-REE"), and to not even allow common forms that readers will come across (and by your admission, if it's preferred by both marketers and dictionaries, probably the most common form). — kwami ( talk) 22:55, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Punjabi script. Since you had some involvement with the Punjabi script redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Tsla1337 ( talk) 15:58, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
Why are you adding unsourced, original research? ― Justin (koavf)❤ T☮ C☺ M☯ 23:39, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for replying on the talk page where I invited you. Unfortunately, the expert editor you named there is indefinitely blocked as a suspected sock. Certes ( talk) 09:48, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
Something wrong when the people who most know what they're doing, and are cooperative and work well with others, are so frustrated trying to get anything done here that they feel the need to use socks. — kwami ( talk) 10:26, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
@ Irtapil: Wikipedia does have a problem with driving away new editors who end up feeling that trying to make improvements is futile. A serious problem. I'm part of it myself, I fear. The project can't succeed without new blood.
'COI' is 'conflict of interest'. E.g., a politician or company editing their WP biography to say that they're the greatest ever. Usually it's more subtle than that, but it can be a real problem.
I don't know the Urdu sock.
'TPS' is just an abbreviation for the name of a template that explains why someone's commenting on a discussion they're not part of. It's not an acronym you need to know.
'NPOV' means 'neutral point of view'. It's one of the basic principles of WP. You're supposed to avoid a non-neutral POV, but no-one abbreviates it "NNPOV". Maybe they figure the two N's cancel each other out? Anyway, a POV-pusher is someone pushing a particular POV, which by implication is a non-NPOV. Someone repeatedly editing the Urdu articles to claim that Urdu is unrelated to Hindi would be a POV-pusher.
There are WP:Wikipedia abbreviations and WP:Glossary to answer your questions, but they're kinda overkill. I've been here years, and I don't know a fraction of them. — kwami ( talk) 03:46, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
Hi kwami, I have come across this one here [13]. I'll gladly finish this, but do you remember the source article where the material came from (in case it's actually relevant for cleanup)? – Austronesier ( talk) 08:16, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
@ Austronesier: sure, here's my edit in the source article. — kwami ( talk) 08:20, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
Hi, sorry for bothering you again. A while ago (almost a year, actually) I asked you for the IPA pronunciation and respell of Onychopterella. Now I need the same for Roman Dacia, and I was wondering if you could help me again. By the way, is there a page where I can request these things in the future? Thanks in advance. Super Ψ Dro 07:37, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
Lexico (the OED online) [14] has /ˈdeɪʃə/ as the primary pronunciation. The print OED has the same for Dacian, and doesn't have a variant with /s/. Webster's [15] has the same as the print OED. I'd ignore the variants with /i/ -- I don't know if Lexico has a real person pronouncing it, but Webster's certainly doesn't.
This agrees with what we have at the article Dacia,, I just removed the optional 'i' there.
In the future, you might check with the humanities reference desk or with the linguistic wikiproject, but I certainly don't mind a word or two every few months! — kwami ( talk) 09:00, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
Hi Kwamikagami,
I hope you are well. I am getting various LGBT-related articles ready for Pride month, including the article for the Equality Act. There is a map on there that needs a state updated. Virginia has passed the Virginia Values Act and the Governor signed the legislation into law which prohibits discrimination on the basis of gender identity and sexual orientation in all areas. [1] The map is File:LGBT anti-discrimination law in the United States by state.svg . Virginia needs to be dark purple.
Thank you,
- TenorTwelve ( talk) 06:49, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
No prob. — kwami ( talk) 22:32, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
Awesome. Thanks! (and Happy Pride Month!) - TenorTwelve ( talk) 09:19, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
Hi Kwamikagami,
I've been wondering how to make a map for/on Wikipedia/Wikimedia. You might not need to personally teach me but I was wondering if you could direct me towards some resources on this? I've tried looking for resources but have found almost nothing and it almost seems like a secret knowledge of sorts. Do I need to download software for this? Thanks, - TenorTwelve ( talk) 08:09, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
Hi Kwamikagami, your merge of the set index article Rhexenor (mythology) into the disambiguation page Rhexenor, needs to be undone. Thanks. Paul August ☎ 14:59, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Why? — kwami ( talk) 20:51, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Your recent page moves are out of process and inappropriate. You have been here long enough to know that. If you want an articles to be renamed, request so at WP:RM, not by attempting to game the system. Ə XPLICIT 11:40, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
Your edits were irresponsible. You left redirects to red links, even in templates, that would have been bot-deleted if I hadn't cleaned up after you. And waiting a month for a discussion to correct a typo is a bit ridiculous. — kwami ( talk) 17:39, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
Are you sure your move is correct? The surname is spelt ‘Alokuo’ulu (i.e. with the second mark not being an okina) by the Tongan Parliament. Cheers, Number 5 7
That's just how they write 'okina. They use an apostrophe and their word processor makes it curly, so it's a 6-shape at the beginning of a name but a 9-shape in the middle of a name. If you do a search for <'>, you'll see they're all apostrophes, and they're all 9-shaped in the middle of a name. — kwami ( talk) 23:59, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
Yes. Often people do use apostrophes when they're not typesetting professionally, but in that case you'd just use a straight apostrophe <'> on WP. Normally we fix them all to ʻokina, which you can input as {{okina}}
. —
kwami (
talk)
00:19, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
Seems another user undid your move, which I believe to be correct. I've started a requested move discussion at Talk:Kauai#Requested move 5 July 2020. Hope you are able to participate in the discussion. Skyerise ( talk) 19:43, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
Not sure what your preferred method of talk page usage is. I replied on mine. Let me know if you'd prefer something else. I vaguely remember that I used to use some kind of notifying template but that was a while ago and I forget what it was... Skyerise ( talk) 20:35, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
Is your changing of the straight apostrophe in place of the ayin character related to some discussion affecting all relevant articles? If not, please discuss first as the articles are simply following the MoS guidelines: "The characters representing the ayin (ع) and the hamza (ء) are not omitted (except when at the start of a word) in the basic form, both represented by the straight apostrophe (')". The proper transliteration is simply added, or should be added, next to the Arabic name in the introductory sentence of the given article, e.g. Ma'an ( Arabic: مَعان, romanized: Maʿān). — Al Ameer ( talk) 04:30, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
@ Al Ameer son: That MOS guideline might be new, or at least I don't recall ever seeing it. There has long been consensual use of distinct letters for ayin and hamza. That dates back to the founding of Wikipedia -- you can still find the old ASCII convention of <`> as an for ayin. Personally, I take exception to intentionally introducing errors into articles or article titles. Basically, we're saying that the Arabic language isn't important enough to represent accurately. Why is it that it would be culturally insensitive, if not actually racist, to mistranscribe Native American or Hawaiian names, but okay to mistranscribe Arabic names? — kwami ( talk) 04:34, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
Dear Friend, I am so sorry that I let you down, per assisting with the "curly apostrophe" project. I had no difficulty in changing apostrophes in the body of the article, but every time I tried to do a page move, the system would not accept the change, and continued to show a curly. This problem occurred only on my Ipad. When I tried to make the move changes on my much, much older desk computer, it seemed to work just fine. However, due to physical problems, I cannot sit at the desk computer for any useful length of time. This is not the first time I have had Ipad vs desk computer problems of this type. And I am too old and out of date on computer skills to figure it out. I got frustrated, and decided to try again in a few days, only to discover that it might be too late.
In the past, I have successfully worked on other editor's lists, to good effect. I am so sorry to let you down. Please do not judge others who offer to help you, on the basis of my failure. I should have contacted you right away, when I realized that I didn't possess the ability to help you because of my hardware problems.
In case you can still use my help, I have posted a query at WP:RM/TR, and will also do so at the Village Pump technical page.
Once again, my sincerely apologies, Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 22:57, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
Yes, I am very pleased to do the texts, thank you! I am off to do the letter (R, first) etc, and will scan the both the title and article for the curlies. Best wishes, Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 00:20, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
I saw an note on ANI that you may have a list of articles that need the apostrophes changed. I am willing to help, if you have a list that I could work from. As long as my Ipad will support making the changes, I would enjoy doing so. I can't "sit" at my desk computer, but can work, prone, on the Ipad. in the past, I have assisted others in completing similar repetitive tasks. Let me know if I can help. Best, Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 00:23, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
Thanks. I've been doing that for ones that are blocked. But there are problems with some of these titles beyond the curly apostrophe, e.g. being bad a translation from an article on another-language WP, so they should be individually reviewed. — kwami ( talk) 04:47, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
Okay, so far I have "done" the S's( from history in my sandbox), R's, P's and N's. At some point in the P's, I resolved the problem regarding moving the pages, per my device problems, see above discussion.
Of course, I had to try it out, and the "move" worked well, except for the fact that AFTER a page is moved, a box pops up and asks me to "do things" about which I have no clue! I had no desire to mess about with images, but on several articles, I thought it was safe to move a simple stub.
Do you want me to continue to correct Curlies by making "moves" here and there, or will these hit and miss moves make your overall task more difficult? The Curlies in the bodies of the text are no problem...plus it is very enjoyable to copyedit, fix refs, add sections, etc. I also enjoy smoothing-out the prose of ESL editors.
So, should I try to complete the "seemingly simple moves", or will it be easier if I leave them alone?
Thanks, again, for allowing me to work on this project. I am really enjoying it! Now working on the M's....Regards, Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 01:30, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
Please stop immediately with wholesale moving articles from straight apostrophes to curled ones. I asked for an urgent block at WP:ANI. Debresser ( talk) 17:06, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
Same for adding an apostrophe to indicate the Hebrew letter ayin. Which is against WP:HEBREW. Debresser ( talk) 17:07, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
I did, of course. But those are not apostrophes. You speak Hebrew, so do I need to explain the difference? Which BTW was already explained to you at ANI. Pop them into the search window if you don't believe me. — kwami ( talk) 00:59, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
Debresser, in many fonts an ʻokina and a quote mark look the same, but in other fonts they are graphically distinct. Similarly, for Hebrew, an ʼaleph and ʽayin will look like quote marks or apostrophes in many fonts, but not all. In some fonts, Greek alpha and Latin 'a' look the same, but that doesn't make them the same letter.
As for WP.HEBREW, indeed I wasn't aware of that. But I didn't argue with you about reverting my edit either. Though as Vanisaac points out, WP.HEBREW is rather confused, and contradicts itself. In the table, it says that ʼaleph and ʽayin are to be ignored in transcription, as you say, but then it goes on to give multiple examples where they are not ignored, though they're treated as punctuation rather than letters -- so that an actual apostrophe needs to be transcribed as a double quotation mark to keep it distinct from a letter-apostrophe. In modern Ashkenazi Hebrew, ʼaleph and ʽayin are pronounced the same, so it makes sense to transcribe them the same (though they're consonants, not punctuation marks as WP.HEBREW transcribes them). But in Biblical Hebrew they were not, so there's also that consideration. — kwami ( talk) 20:21, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
@ Debresser: They are not pronounced the same in all varieties of Modern Hebrew even today, and were clearly pronounced differently back when the original Hebrew was a mother tongue. But if as you say the apostrophe in Yisra'el is actually that -- a punctuation mark separating two vowels, [jisra.el], and does not represent a glottal stop consonant the way Hawaiian ʻokina does, [jisraʔel] (or maybe there is a [ʔ], but (a) it's ignored in transcription, and (b) vowel sequences are separated by apostrophes to keep them legible, regardless of whether there's a [ʔ] there, so that [aʔel] and [ael] would both be transcribed a'el) -- then I completely misunderstood that and IMO it needs to be clearly stated at HEBREW. — kwami ( talk) 21:07, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
HEBREW says, Between a shva and a vowel sound or between nikud and a vowel sound, an apostrophe will be used to indicate a short stop. Thus: mal'akh.
What is a "short stop" if not the consonant ʼaleph? That does seem to contradict the table, but again the whole presentation is rather confused. — kwami ( talk) 21:24, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
Okay, I'm going to take a stab at clarifying HEBREW so people like me won't get confused in the future. — kwami ( talk) 07:59, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
@ Debresser: so in the example mal'akh (מַלְאָךְ), the apostrophe indicates that it's syllabified mal-akh instead of ma-lakh?
Re. alef for glottal stop being rare, I suppose that depends on which reading tradition you're used to. Back when Hebrew was a spoken language (Biblical Hebrew in that sense, as the Hebrew spoken by the people who wrote most of the Hebrew portions of the OT), it was almost always a glottal stop. I've been working on a bit of the Song of Songs, and in 8 lines alef appears 17 times. In 13 of those it indicates a simple glottal stop, in 2 a geminate glottal stop, and in 2 a long o vowel.
In modern colloquial written Hebrew, in a para from Etgar Keret, alef occurs 17 times in word-medial position, and ayin 8 times. These correspond to 21 glottal stops in careful speech, or 75% of alefs, in the standard accent where ayin is glottal stop rather than an pharyngeal, though my understanding is that they tend to be elided when not speaking formally. — kwami ( talk) 05:40, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
@ Debresser: Glottal stop is a catch in the throat that can be pretty obvious when you hear it, but people can be rather sloppy distinguishing it from hiatus when explaining things verbally. There's a YouTube video on Hawaiian, v = VEQw3_JQTK8, that at about 1m contrasts pau with two vowels in hiatus from paʻu with the same vowels separated by a glottal stop.
If there's a bit of silence between two vowels due to a catch in the throat, you're making a glottal stop, while if they run smoothly into each other, you're not -- they're in hiatus. There are supposedly rules in Dutch for when you make a glottal stop between certain vowels and when you don't, but I don't know how reliable or consistent they are. I don't know if it makes any difference in Hebrew. In English, Hawaii is pronounced without glottal stop by most speakers, but with a glottal stop between the two i's, Hawaiʻi, by Hawaiians (including English-speaking Hawaiians) -- but either way the a and the first i are in hiatus. Japanese and Swahili are notable for all possible sequences of vowels occurring in hiatus. For example, in Japanese ao 'blue' (noun) and aoi 'blue' (adj), the vowels run smoothly into each other -- they're kept distinct but there's no catch in the throat between them. I'm sure you can find sound files of that word online. Pronouncing them with a glottal stop would be very wrong. Again, I don't know if it matters in Hebrew -- if a glottal stop is always possible between vowels, but not required, then it's rather moot whether the apostrophe transcribes glottal stop or hiatus. — kwami ( talk) 08:50, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
Does mal'akh also have a glottal stop, then?
Re two identical vowels, there are languages that clearly have double vowels in hiatus. (There's a dip in intensity between the vowels, what you might hear as a syllable break, but no stop or silence.) Other languages clearly have a long vowel instead, e.g. when two words come together, one ending in [a] and the other beginning in [a], the result is a long [aː]. In some cases there's even a 3-way distinction of short [a], long [aː] and double [aa]. I believe Hawaiian is one. But in many languages the situation is ambiguous between long [aː] and double [aa], or authorities make conflicting claims, or may describe what they believe the underlying situation is rather than the pronunciation at the surface. — kwami ( talk) 01:21, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
Alef was originally a glottal stop, not a vowel, with any associated vowel unwritten. I think the matres lectionis uses came in pretty early, certainly in biblical times, though I thought the matres were originally he, waw and yod, not alef and ayin, which became matres much later? I don't recall. AFAIK alef and ayin are silent in Ashkenazi Hebrew, in orthography they're just carriers for the niqqud, but I don't know about Israeli.
Re. בראשית, you mean it's b, schwa, glottal stop, r? Maybe because the ב is a prefix? It's presumably simply coincidence that there happens to be an alef later in the word. The dictionary just has bereshit or breshit, though, no glottal stop.
In Dutch, orthographic aa is one sound, but what happens when you put a word ending in a and a word beginning with a together, maybe adjective and noun? Do they merge into a single sound? If they stay distinct, they might be separated by a glottal stop or might not. That's parallel to the question here. — kwami ( talk) 21:04, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
In case you received a ping and are wondering what this is about, please take a look at what the page looked like before my edits. Because you didn't use "subst:", there was no signature or record of the time and date of closure of that RM. — BarrelProof ( talk) 18:04, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
Ah, thanks. — kwami ( talk) 19:04, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
Unfortunately, my source is currently not available due to technical issues. The issue is quite complicated because many sources are simply wrong. Even a German source firstly said the maximum penalty would be seven years, but they corrected their article after a few hours.
https://www.queer.de/detail.php?article_id=36601
„In einer vorherigen Version hatte es geheißen, dass die Maximalstrafe sieben Jahre Haft sind. Tatsächlich kann nach der dritten Verurteilung lebenslang verhängt werden. Wir haben den Fehler korrigiert.“
Sudans LGBT Organisation Bedayaa stated every change of Article 148. Currently it is not available as I said, but I will hand you over the link as soon as possible.
It is clearly stated, that they just eliminated the word „death“ at the third paragraph of Article 148 (2c). So the maximum penalty after a third offense is still life imprisonment. The second offense is to be punished with seven years in jail now.
Other sources:
I guess Reuters is a good and reasonable source:
„The punishments have been reduced to prison terms, ranging from five years to life.“
-- Böses Buschwerk123 ( talk) 05:08, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
„Under Sudan's old sodomy law, gay men faced 100 lashes for the first offense, five years in jail for the second and the death penalty the third time around. The punishments have been reduced to prison terms, ranging from five years to life.“
I think the statement of Bedayaa claimed, that they eliminated the five years max penalty of the second paragraph. Because of this, now there are 7 seven years jail.
I mean now we got a few reasonable sources. I think it is enough, don’t you think so? 👀
-- Böses Buschwerk123 ( talk) 05:21, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
You did a great job with your last editing. 👌🏽 We have to wait now until we get more reliable sources. :) Böses Buschwerk123 ( talk) 09:22, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
(For page-stalkers, Bedayaa got back to me and said that Böses's interpretation is correct, that the penalties are <=5yrs, <=7yrs, and life, with no room for lenience in a 3rd conviction, though no cases of the last are known. — kwami ( talk) 05:40, 22 July 2020 (UTC))
The user that replied to you on Talk:Phoenician alphabet (I don't want to name or ping him) has been displaying extremely aggressive, toxic and mocking behaviour against every single person who he disagrees with ever since the discussion about this topic started on Talk:Paleo-Hebrew_alphabet#Redirection/merge_to_Phoenician_alphabet (I don't know if you lurked there before, if not, brace yourself). He is not contributive to the discussion at all and only attacks contributive users by making passive agressive remarks and telling people to "go and read", even outright refusing to provide evidence. I fear in the end nothing about the pages can be improved because "no concensus has been reached", because of a toxic user that keeps saying no to everything. Maybe something needs to be done about it at some point. Glennznl ( talk) 00:18, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
@ Glennznl: You can make a formal move request, see what evidence people bring to that. Personally, I'm opposed to changing the names of peoples and languages every other year out of a patronizing desire to protect the ignorant natives, so that in the end no-one knows who they are because they go by too many names to keep track of (funny, no-one seems to propose rectifying the name of the Germans, Basques, Greeks, Albanians, Finns, Armenians, Egyptians, Indians, Tibetans, Chinese or Koreans), but if a name is well established in English we should go by that.
BTW, you don't need to ping me on my own talk page, though you might want to do so on yours if you answer there, in case I'm not watching it. — kwami ( talk) 10:30, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
@ Glennznl: A lot of Eskimo call themselves 'Eskimo' because they're not Inuit (that's only ever worked in Canada), and a lot of Bushmen call themselves 'Bushmen' because 'San' is an ethnic slur. (There's no such thing as a Khoisan.) In fact, the idea that the name 'Bushman' is somehow racist is itself a judgement that their culture is inferior, and that it would be 'racist' to call them what they are. — kwami ( talk) 19:40, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
I am continuing to work on the list provided. Once I got over being nervous about moving article names, I started moving them, and also began going back through the list again...both to move the ones I missed, and to backcheck my work. I will post a progress report soon, in an hour or so.
This is a very rewarding editing task, and I thank you for allowing me to help you. After the basic housekeeping work of converting/fixing the curlies, I have filled in bare refs, fixed deadlinks...then the "fun" starts, with copyediting, etc., which I enjoy.
Today, while going back through previously visited articles, in order to "move", I find that you have arrived before me. I want to let you know that I am still on the job, despite my slowness. Thanks again, Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 05:52, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
Okay, the list was arranged thus: S, R, P, N, M, J, I, and G. I started " moving" somewhere in the P's, and certainly by the Ns. I have started going through from the beginning, to move the ones I missed. The only section I have not touched at all as of yet is the G section. If you do the moves ahead of me, I will still care for the curlies in the text, as well as the other editing. Hope this meets with your approval. Thanks, Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 06:14, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
I have completed the tasks for the list of articles. I filed only one article at RM, as you had already filed the others that I was tracking. Are there any more to be done? Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 20:37, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
If you know Arabic script, there are a bunch that have apostrophes, quote marks or back-ticks (`) that need to be corrected to proper ʽayin or hamza. — kwami ( talk) 20:40, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Sen:esepera. The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 July 30#Sen:esepera until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion.
Soumya-8974
talk
contribs
subpages
07:47, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
Hello, I have questions about your replacement of all straight apostrophes in the Guarani language article.
Mauricio Maluff ( talk) 2020-07-21T18:04:54
@ Mauricio Maluff: There's no problem with editors using ASCII. It can always be cleaned up by others. The problem with using a hamza directly is that it's difficult to distinguish visually from a curly apostrophe, making manual clean up difficult. A bot would distinguish them, but it can be difficult to visually verify what the bot is doing.
No WP agreement on Guarani that I know of, but we do have agreement for other languages with glottal stop such as Hawaiian and several Canadian and Mexican languages. If the saltillo would be best, that's fine, but {{ saltillo}} should be used rather than ASCII. But if the the straight apostrophe we see is just an ASCII substitute for ease of typing, not intended as a saltillo and not used in professional publication, then I wouldn't think that's something we'd want to emulate. Could be that Guarani doesn't have an official orthographic convention for this. Probably worth discussing to see what the evidence is. — kwami ( talk) 18:47, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
I pondering how these templates might be used and whether or not they are needed. MOS:APOSTROPHE says we should use {{ hamza}} and {{ ayin}}, which would make {{ lhr}} redundant. I like the idea of using the transliterated character name—rather than the Unicode character name—because it makes it easy to change which Unicode character we use. It also makes it easy to verify that the correct character is being used, for folks familiar with the language but not with Unicode. Presumably we'd want to do the same thing and use {{ aleph}} rather than {{ rhr}}? Glottal stops in different languages are encoded differently, so e.g. {{ okina}} wouldn't use either of these characters. Are there other languages you were thinking of that have glottal stops where we'd want to make more templates? Or was there some other rationale for making lhr and rhr? -- Beland ( talk) 16:37, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
Regarding [ this edit]: do you mean that пятка is transliterated as p'atka? In some systems (e. g. USSR AS 1951–1957) it is indeed so. But usually the apostrophe or prime is used only for ь, whereas я and ю are transliterated identically regardless of their function: pyatka (BGN/PCGN), pjatka (UNGEGN), pi͡atka (ALA/LC)... Burzuchius ( talk) 20:26, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
Your page move was undiscussed and unexplained; I have reverted. Please use WP:RM. Giant Snowman 10:23, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
The page violated the MOS. We don't use curly apostrophes on WP, and his name does not contain a punctuation mark but an 'okina. — kwami ( talk) 12:48, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
Hi Kwami. Can you change " Show Dog-Universal Music" to "Show Dog Nashville"? 2402:1980:82F6:AB87:F6EC:E2E9:4948:D559 ( talk) 07:41, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
Could I ask why? According to the article, it's at the correct name. — kwami ( talk) 07:47, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
![]() |
The Original Barnstar | |
Because you do an incredible amount of good work, and I am more or less in awe at how much you know. Also, I think you do not have enough barnstars. ^_^ Double sharp ( talk) 05:06, 22 August 2020 (UTC) |
Do you by any chance remember which source you used here, at Shipibo language#Dialects? It's not listed in the article's bibliography, so the citation is nearly useless without more info. Glades12 ( talk) 10:40, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
That's the claim that it's a dialect, ref at at Panoan languages, [16]. 'No data' from Loukotka (1968) on same page. — kwami ( talk) 11:24, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
Spelled "Shipinawa", as a Shipibo dialect, on p. 14. Listed as an ethnonym 'purported' to be a Panoan lang on p. 109, same under the spelling "Chipinawa" on p. 15. (Identity of the two stated again on p. 77 and 89.) Just do a search for "ipin".
That should be enough, but the other ref is Loukotka, Čestmír (1968) Classification of South American Indian languages, UCLA. — kwami ( talk) 22:51, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
I, the creator of these two pages, came to say thank you just because you expanded and cited them. Blockman9000 ( talk) 15:05, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
You clearly have a bug in your ear about a whole host of technical issues that are WAY beyond Wikipedia's remit. I would suggest hunting down all of these feloniously erroneous scientists and lecturing them soundly on exactly how wrong they are. Perhaps you could corral them into an isolated manor ala "And Then There Were None" and pick them off one by one until they agree to publish retractions in reliable sources. Then, with those reliable soures, maybe Wikipedia could do something about it. Serendi pod ous 14:13, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
I've tried to change the article to cover the POV rather than just that editorial, which IMO isn't in itself notable. The POV certainly is, and IMO deserves more coverage on WP. — kwami ( talk) 05:41, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
A definition published the next year by some of the same authors is actually functional, so I changed to that one. It still doesn't support Stern's list of 100+ Solar planets, but then no definition does. — kwami ( talk) 05:01, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
Hi a few weeks ago you moved a page I created a while back, but as far as I can see, the title you moved it to is the same one as I gave it, Les Dialogues d'Evhémère. Can I ask what that was about? All the best Mccapra ( talk) 10:26, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, you used a curly apostrophe, which we don't use on WP. — kwami ( talk) 12:16, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
(Answering here) - the vaccine strategies are always being reevaluated, but there is currently no plan to drop PV3 from the vaccine prior to the cessation of all vaccination. I suspect that there will be hesitance to make any change regarding PV3 after the PV2 removal went so badly. It cuts both ways. oPV3 is a lot less prone to reversion mutations, so cVDPV3 outbreaks are a lot less common, and because it does not have the high asymptomatic rate of cVDPV2, when it happens it is easier to find and quash. This means that it should be easier to remove from the vaccine, but also that removing it is less of a priority. Regarding your other question, yes, if your mopup successfully achieves enough vaccination to eliminate a cVDPV outbreak in a country, it is gone from that country, but there are two problems. First, viruses do not respect borders, neither international borders not the limits set for the mop-up vaccination campaign, and there is a finite chance it will spread beyond the mopup cordon. Secondly, there is always going to be spillover of the vaccine at the edges of the mopup area, for example when they tried mopping up the latest cVDPV in Pakistan, they started picking up the oPV2 in Afghanistan, even though it had not been administered there. That is a huge problem, because this spillover is now running through an entirely unvaccinated population, and you will likely get fresh cVDPV strains arising. Just last year (or was it two years ago), spillover of oVP2 used in Congo caused numerous new cVDPV2s in Angola. Agricolae ( talk) 19:41, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
Very interesting. Thank you! — kwami ( talk) 02:15, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
![]() |
The Special Barnstar
For creating the Tyap language article. Thanks! Kambai Akau ( talk) 20:22, 14 September 2020 (UTC) |
Thanks! — kwami ( talk) 02:16, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
The article Manenguba languages has recently been extended quite a bit and is no longer a stub. Since you are one of the contributors, would you care to assess it in its present state, or suggest improvements? Since I wrote most of it, I don't think I can assess it myself. Kanjuzi ( talk) 12:13, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
Okay, I have finished, except for three articles:
I saw that you were part of a discussion at the Science Ref Desk, regarding "Safe displays of highly radioactive isotopes". My understanding is that, of course, radioactive materials occur naturally, are mined and then changed by humans to produce more powerful substances. Can you direct me to articles that outline the history of the discovery of the basic substances? I can remember the names of radium, uranium and plutonium. Are these naturally-occurring radioactive ores? Are there others? Thanks! Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 01:55, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
Thorium and uranium, actually. Answered on your talk page. — kwami ( talk) 00:16, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
A tag has been placed on File:Historical expanse of Ainu.png requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section F2 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a missing or corrupt image or an empty image description page for a Commons-hosted image.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. CptViraj ( talk) 12:45, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
I have done the move request for you, if you have any more requests I’ll be happy to help. Please do any post move cleanup if necessary. Cheers Megan☺️ Talk to the monster 14:20, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
Thanks! — kwami ( talk) 15:48, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
Hello there,
In 2018 I changed the final vowel of the pronunciation transcription in Daphne to /i/ from /iː/ on the basis that I, a northern British English speaker, pronounce it with [ɪ]. I’m backed up in my assertion that this is the happY vowel by the Longman Pronunciation Dictionary (ˈdæf ni).
You reverted my change earlier this year with the comment "rv bad IPA fix". Can you explain what I'm missing here? Why is the happY vowel not appropriate in the WP transcription scheme here? (Ordinarily I'd just have re-made my change assuming it was a troll/someone confused about the IPA, but I recognize your name from previous pronunciation discussions.)
Daphne Preston-Kendal ( talk) 07:43, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
Hi @ Daphne Preston-Kendal:. I was going by the OED, by the fact that Greek eta is normally pronounced /i:/, and also assumed that you might not know the difference (lots of editors don't). But I see that not only does Longman have /i/, but so does Lexico, which is based on the OED. Plus I would expect you to know how to pronounce your own name! I'll go ahead and change it back, so it's clear from the article history that we're in agreement. — kwami ( talk) 08:14, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
Kagami-san, have you seen zh:小行星列表/1-1000? I think you might like the massive calquing effort that obviously went into the seemingly standard names. ^_^ Double sharp ( talk) 11:36, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
It is. I wonder if someone's making all that up for WP, or if they're actually used? — kwami ( talk) 01:22, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
Obviously! — kwami ( talk) 03:08, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
What did you do to the consonant section of the Taa language? Why did I see symbols that looked like this [ˬd̪̥ʰ] rather than this [d̪̥ʰ]? Are they voiced? Or devoiced? I have since then reverted your edit. Fdom5997 ( talk) 05:33, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
Jeez man, calm down.I used Celestia to take that picture. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Benjamin Borg ( talk • contribs) 16:32, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
Hi,
you merged today the article Planetary object with Geophysical definition of 'planet'.
I find the merger a bit sudden, dont you think it deserves a discussion.
For example if merging, wouldnt the Planet article be better since it has a subsection regarding and referencing planetary mass objects.
I personally think it deserves an own article. Nsae Comp ( talk) 13:10, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
I would possibly proofread a lot or all of the phonological charts/information that you have given on various language pages. I just saw that you forgot a /j/ glide consonant for the Akan language. I just fixed it, and added a source provided. Also, is there a way that I can view all of the language pages that you provided information on? Fdom5997 ( talk) 21:37, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, for some reason I tried that, and it did not work. It wasn't showing any results. Fdom5997 ( talk) 02:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
Hello. Please can you help fix the links to new dab Koli language? It's not obvious to the layman whether they mean Kachi Koli language or something else. Thanks, Certes ( talk) 15:42, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for your recent contributions to one of Wikipedia's articles related to the solar system. Given the interest you've expressed by your edits, have you considered joining WikiProject Solar System? We are a group of editors dedicated to improving the overall coverage of the solar system on Wikipedia. If you would like to join, simply add your name to the list of participants. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask at the project talk page. We look forward to working with you in the future! -- Soumya-8974 talk contribs subpages 17:31, 24 October 2020 (UTC) -- Soumya-8974 talk contribs subpages 17:41, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
Just found this list today, sorry...happy to work, sorry for the delay Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 04:46, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
Hey, no worries. No rush. — kwami ( talk) 04:48, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
hey Concerning the edits and updates on the page Template:Same-sex marriage opinion polls worldwide
I noticed that these same updates were not done on the following: Template:Same-sex marriage opinion polls Asia Template:Same-sex marriage opinion polls Europe Template:Same-sex marriage opinion polls Americas and Template:Same-sex marriage opinion polls Oceania
there is a big discrepancy in the numbers between a country in the worldwide pafe and americas for example. would you be kind and take care of it when you have time sorry to ask i'm just so uch busy now with studies thank you Agaywithnorights ( talk) 01:54, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
Hi, I notice that you've been adding pronunciations to quite a few articles on my watchlist. They should be sourced. E.g. /strɛpˈtɒfɪtə/; in careful speech I say /ˈstrɛptoʊfɪtə/ (British English). Peter coxhead ( talk) 08:54, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
Where did you get your username? It's a really lovely name :) 49.144.193.13 ( talk) 10:42, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
The name Kwami is an Ashanti name for a man born on a Saturday. 鏡 Kagami is a Japanese pun on my surname.Double sharp ( talk) 11:57, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
"Kagami" also has the advantage of being a rather uncommon Japanese name, which is nice given that my actual name is so tediously common, though it looks like the cartoon character indeed has the same name (same 鏡 on WP-ja). Can't tell if there's any Ashanti connection to the kwamis, though. — kwami ( talk) 05:44, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
"-sama" is overly formal. If you must use it, I think the appropriate form would be "Kisama", but my friends call me "Baka". — kwami ( talk) 22:49, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
By the way, Origin of Hangul seems to have gotten a nationalist (and inconsistent) twist this year. I'd correct it, but you are surely much more knowledgeable. -- Macrakis ( talk) 23:17, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
Since you have previously updated a related article, you might be interested in knowing there is a discussion regarding the Tahquitz (disambiguation) page. The discussion is at Talk:Tahquitz (disambiguation). OvertAnalyzer ( talk) 16:06, 25 November 2020 (UTC) Thanks! — kwami ( talk) 18:59, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Re the discussion on Talk:Magnetic-core memory, what is the right place to discuss MOS:HYPHEN? It doesn't point to a main article, and the MOS FAQ and MOS extended FAQ don't mention hyphens. I've found a few discussions scattered through the MOS archives dating to 2011 or so, but it's not clear how to pick up the discussion. Thanks, -- Macrakis ( talk) 23:04, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
Certainly refer to them. Could they be copied to Talk:MOS:HYPHEN, even though it's a redirect? Or would that be even more obscure? — kwami ( talk) 23:23, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
I assume you know this, but just in case I thought I should note that (for those who make the distinction) "magnetic core memory" and "magnetic-core memory" are pronounced differently, so it's not an arbitrary convention. — kwami ( talk) 03:42, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
I know you understand the rule, but not everyone is aware that it reflects a spoken difference. (Someone commented recently that it doesn't matter because there's no difference in pronunciation.)
There is a tendency for common phrases to not be hyphenated, just as "high school" is written as two words despite being pronounced as one. But with more technical language, where there's a greater chance of misunderstanding, you see more hyphens. As an encyclopedia, I think WP should err on the side of precision. — kwami ( talk) 18:56, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
Why would you think "foreign policy" is a single word? "Ice cream" is pronounced (and sometimes written) as one word, "foreign policy" as two.
The differences don't need to be exaggerated. Any child can distinguish them. The problem is that English doesn't have a complete or consistent way to write prosody, so we don't learn how to do it well.
Actual practice, sure, but we don't want random differences based on contradictory conventions in different sources. The sources are internally consistent (at least if they're edited well), so why would an encyclopedia be intentionally inconsistent? — kwami ( talk) 23:39, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
But when you make it attributive, it *is* pronounced as a single word. That's the reason for hyphenating -- it's pronounced like a hyphenated lexical word, so the same orthographic convention is used.
As for it not being a common convention any more, that's a discussion for changing the MOS. Regardless, we should follow the MOS, whatever we decide there, for orthographic conventions like this, so that we're consistent across WP, just as any profesional publication would try to be internally consistent. — kwami ( talk) 20:40, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
I do, assuming I'm not misinterpreting any of them.
Most WP conventions are only sporadically applied, like overlinking or curly quotes. I did a search for articles with curly quotes or the ASCII ` convention in their titles, and got over 1,000 hits. — kwami ( talk) 21:59, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
Just yesterday I came across an attributive phrase written as a single word but not hyphenated, equivalent to "heavymetal lyrics". Wish I'd written it down. — kwami ( talk) 19:42, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
Hello! Your submission of
Cistercian numerals at the
Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at
your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know!
Yoninah (
talk)
18:49, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
What's left? Refs weren't duplicated when a para was split -- anything else? — kwami ( talk) 23:15, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
Hi, i've adapted one of the pama-nyungan maps for a forthcoming publication and need to provide citation info for the publisher. are they your original work (and if so do we cite Kwamikagami under a CC license?) Happy to show you what it looks like but effectively just the map of the continent with Yolŋu, Arandic & Thura-Yura highliighted within PN. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jishphil ( talk • contribs) 20:04, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
I have nominated Jupiter for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 00:06, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
Hi. Could you take a look at this? Jumped from 23 million to 45-50 million. [17] It does not even match with the total population of that specific ethnic group. Cheers! -- Wario-Man ( talk) 04:44, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
@ Wario-Man: Yeah, falsified data. Could you check that nothing worthwhile got caught up in the revert? — kwami ( talk) 04:53, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
I just checked Ethn, and they haven't changed their numbers. (14M + 9M.) If Qashqai is included in the article, then it should be included in the pop stats. 05:04, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
Irrelevant. If we have Qashqai in the article, then the pop figure needs to reflect that. If we have a map showing it in country A, we can't say it's in county B. We need to be consistent. — kwami ( talk) 05:18, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
Ethnicity is also irrelevant. People of different ethnicities speak Arabic and French, but we don't call them different languages because of that. — kwami ( talk) 05:29, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
On 27 December 2020, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Cistercian numerals, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the Cistercian monastic order created an early competitor to Hindu–Arabic numerals with which they wrote years as a single character? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Cistercian numerals. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page ( here's how, Cistercian numerals), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (ie, 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
Cwmhiraeth ( talk) 00:02, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
Hey, just wanted to say I thoroughly enjoyed the article about Cistercian numerals. Very interesting! Yakikaki ( talk) 09:04, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
Glad to hear it! — kwami ( talk) 22:35, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
https://ilga.org/state-sponsored-homophobia-report
Hi the latest 2019 ilga report is very important and highly big and informative Many lgbt country pages in africa asia and (even americas) need to be updated urhently Take ur time and check and hope u can update the countries Some unapdated even from 2011
There is also the blog erasing 76 Like this just write the name of country and erasing 76 in google like that
Also there is The U.S. Department of State's 2019 Human Rights Report
I would do it happily but i'm focusing much on the translating English LGBT content pages into Arabic all the time and can't much
Thx good luck (no pressure of course, just a suggestion) AdamPrideTN ( talk) 08:35, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
Hi kwami, sorry for getting back this late. No, unfortunately, I have no extra-material on Chuukese. It is quite remote from my main area of research. But there is a Bible translation of Chuukese which might be helpful. Bible translations have to be taken of course cum grano salis, but many of them are very idiomatic and represent the natural spoken language in quite a reliable way. – Austronesier ( talk) 12:16, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
Concerning your recent edit at Template:Same-sex unions, are you certain same-sex marriages performed in the Netherlands are registered as civil unions in Aruba? Do you have any sources to confirm this? Technically, they should be registered as full marriages, as per several court rulings, including a ruling from the Supreme Court of the Netherlands. Jedi Friend ( talk) 08:30, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
From the rights groups I've contacted, you aren't married under local law in those states. True, you can register your marriage, and I suspect that counts for residency, as it does in e.g. Romania, but it doesn't count as a marriage any more than it does in Romania. In Curacao, you supposedly have no rights whatsoever apart from living there. In Aruba, I would *assume* that your marriage counts as a CU rather than as nothing, though I suppose it's possible that you would need to get a local CU for those rights, as you evidently have to do in Estonia. (You can register your marriage in Estonia, but don't get the rights of a CU unless you get one of those as well -- at least according to some reports. But then, you can't actually get a CU in Estonia (or at least you weren't able to for a while), so need to get married abroad in order to have CU-equivalent rights, according to other reports.)
It's like trying to figure out whether a Muslim man with three wives emigrating to the US is still married to any of his wives. We really need better sources for these states, Estonia, Armenia, Cambodia, Japan and a bunch of US tribal govs. If you have RS's for Aruba, not just that there was a court judgement or that people register their marriages, which all agree on, but that ppl actually have full marriage rights, rights that people with local CU's don't, that would be fantastic. — kwami ( talk) 12:21, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
I wrote to the govt ministries of all three countries earlier this year, and haven't received any replies. The only response I got was from a rights group in Curacao, and they say that registration confers no rights there (taxes, medical decisions, etc.). We went back and forth a few times to make sure there wasn't a translation issue, since they were writing in English and it wasn't quite colloquial. I posted their responses somewhere on WP talk, though of course you'd have to write them yourself to verify. For the Estonian group, they said it's all very complicated and hadn't stabilized. Not like the EU ruling, which is reasonably straightforward and everyone seems to have accepted. But then we have similar things going on with Sinaloa, where the MORENA govt just rejected the legislation to implement the SC ruling. — kwami ( talk) 23:37, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
Hey Kwami, could you please have a look at Matsés language? The article has been strongly expanded by an IP lately, but unfortunately their writing is rather sloppy and reads non-native-English, and not compatible with Wikipedia MOS, so the article looks like a mess and would need a large amount of copyediting to make it look decent, I fear, and also fact-checking.
Frankly, I've considered reverting the additions wholesale because I feel that at least in such obscure corners of Wikipedia, where few eyes, let alone competent (or even relevant specialist expert) eyes, are watching what's going on, and looking after it, well-meaning outsiders can make articles worse rather than better by adding large amounts of seemingly well-sourced text to them, since it creates so much work that nobody seems willing nor even able to do. I'm also not sure if there might not be a kind of UNDUE going on here, when an obscure language (even to linguists) receives such disproportionately-seeming coverage on Wikipedia, but I'm quite unsure how to proceed in this case. -- Florian Blaschke ( talk) 08:56, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
Comment again if I don't get to this, as I'm not going to do anything now and my 'new messages' icon is gone.
Personally, I don't think that's too much coverage at all. All languages deserve the respect we'd give ones we know, and if other WP language articles are much shorter, then that's a shortcoming in them. The quality and accuracy of the writing is a different matter, of course. E.g., the Pisabo info box is now stranded with no indication of what it's doing in the article. — kwami ( talk) 10:54, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
Hi Kwami. {{ Infobox language}} generates a named reference for use in language articles. The usual reference generated is for Ethnologue which is often used in the article text. However every year Ethnologue gets updated, and every year the language articles start showing errors of the form "Cite error: The named reference e18 was invoked but never defined (see the help page)." in big red type as here. If there are only a few problems I fix them by updating the article text to match the new Ethnologue reference, but I can access the site only a few times before I am locked out. Is there some solution to this annual problem? I fixed a similar problem with {{ Canada census}} by making sure it continued to export references for older censuses, but this doesn't seem applicable here. StarryGrandma ( talk) 00:44, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
@ StarryGrandma: yeah, it is a pain. But it was done intentionally. Before that, ppl would ref Ethn, and often after a few years the ref would no longer support the claim, because Ethn had been updated in the meantime and the WP article had not. E.g. we'd say there were X number of speakers, with Ethn as a ref, but if you checked the ref, you'd see twice that many -- or half. But verifying all the refs in every language article every year is just too big a job -- it would never get done. (I wouldn't do it, not after cleaning up WP once!, and you might be one of the few other ppl working on it.) So now we generate refs to specific editions of Ethn. Of course, for the info box, which is easy to monitor, population figures may be updated when a new edition of Ethn comes out (when I was more active, I would do it every article each time), and editors making such quick updates often don't bother to check the rest of the article for cross refs to the old edition. I don't know what we could do to improve the situation, though. If we didn't enable the cross-ref tag, then at first we'd end up with duplicate refs, and then later it wouldn't be so obvious that our cited material was dated. At least the cite error is a warning that something is wrong. A simple fix would mean no warning, which IMO would be worse. (E.g. in the info box we'd ref one population estimate, and in the body of the article a different, older estimate -- that happens all the time.) Do you have any ideas? — kwami ( talk) 02:13, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
<ref name=e18 />
with <ref name=e18>{{E18|iso code}}</ref>
or <ref name=e18>{{E18|iso code|name}}</ref>
when I run into things like this and can't get into Ethnologue. (If a number has been updated in the infobox but not in the text I can use the infobox number and source to fix it.) This is not ideal but keeps away editors who like to clean up all of
Category:Pages with broken reference names by just removing the broken references.
StarryGrandma (
talk)
15:35, 29 June 2019 (UTC)@ StarryGrandma: Sorry, didn't see your comment. Yeah, that sounds like a good solution. — kwami ( talk) 03:50, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
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The file File:Pahawh yu.png has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
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Category:Pondicherry templates, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. — andrybak ( talk) 21:24, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
http://www.equalityontrial.com/2019/06/25/625-open-thread/#idc-container
https://mobile.twitter.com/lgbtmarriage
https://m.facebook.com/nelfa.aisbl/
Are one of the best sites woth sources that provides daily updates about lgbt rights (some that go unedited for weeks)
I would advice you to check them from time to time for updates
I would do what i can happily but i'm focusing much on the translating English LGBT content pages into Arabic all the time and can't much
Thx good luck (no pressure of course, just a suggestion) AdamPrideTN ( talk) 08:55, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
According to my global account info, the edit I just made on WP-en was number 399,993, which according to George Carlin is the number of words you can say on television.
— kwami ( talk) 06:47, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
This is edit 400,000. Not so active any more, so thought I'd keep track of when. — kwami ( talk) 22:21, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
Hi Kwamikagami,
I proposed a rename for Same-sex marriage under United States tribal jurisdictions and started a discussion and would appreciate if you added your thoughts to the discussion.
Thanks, - TenorTwelve ( talk) 22:54, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
May I request to unprotect the page Maltese language. According to logs, the page has been semi-protected for more than ten years. — Jencie Nasino ( talk) 01:15, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
Hello sir sorry to bother u but i need ur help
So ok if u will ckeck LGBT rights in Tunisia page u will find and please read the history and the history and talk page history of that ( Personal attack removed) user by the name moneysoendethe page and other sas perfectly fine till he comes and starts deleting sourced content and all
Please read revert if u can his editq or restore my edits that are sourced and the true nature of the legal dituation there and try talk to him telli'g to ( Personal attack removed) that putting vigilante attacks are tolerated is not what the law says and is a biased unsourced point of u
If u didnt find my argument please ask me so i can give u to them but u can fi'd it in the edits and his talk pahe and contribution history
Thx
If not cleaer tell me how can i make it more clearer for u thx AdamPrideTN ( talk) 00:50, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Kwamikagami don't fall into his drama and personal attacks. He has been at me attacking, assuming bad faith and being overall very unpolite about edit he disagrees with, especially Tunisia pages. I advised him to not edit if his neutral point of view would be distracted by his own personal feelings, but I see he has ignored that and continued wp:EW with wp:DE. Please see my comments as well, I have undid your edit because I have added and noted where in the sources these points are supported. Please see them and then if you still disagree feel free to talk in the talkpage before editing. I will continue to consider your points and then if we still have different ideas on how we should address vigilante executions in the penalty boxes, maybe a compromise edit is in order. Either way I'm keeping an open mind, unlike how Adam continues to portray me out of whatever unprofessional negative feelings he has towards me. Thanks again. Moneyspender ( talk) 05:41, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Saddened to see the "semi retired" banner — hope you have a change of mind.
An editor who has been absent for a while made a valiant effort here to resolve the glut of sources in the article, added by another editor also absent for some time. Do we really need all those sources (wrapped up as single entries or not)? It is not as if anyone is going to dispute that such studies have been made to warrant such an ironcast twentyfold proof of their existence. In fact, even the breaking up of linguistics into its various areas of study is already an overkill. Unless there is a specific reason why a certain area is not studied (in which case that would be important to mention), it is natural thal all would be, without any need for the lengthy string of disciplines. Surely this falls under WP:NOTREPOSITORY? The article has been copied (translated) to the Portuguese Wikipedia and I want to consult people on both sides before attempting something on the ptwiki. Thanks for your time, Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia ( talk) 21:01, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
Thanks, Kwami. Will open themone by one and sift out the primary ones. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia ( talk) 08:03, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Hello, mr @ Kwamikagami: Sorry for the bother U are more experienced than me in this I am not mentionning any name or calling anyone or atgacking him please However, Would u be so kind and check LGBT rights in Jamaica history page and recent edits and see what can be done, So basically its true Jamaica used to be very homophobic, now the situation chznged a bit although not much, Jamaica now has gay prides, and legal challenges, and the pinknews source saying its a life imprisonment is utterly wrong i never use it or use that site, The only one is barbados there and in both its clear the laws are not enforced And again the law is clear about what it says. Thank you, Cheers!! AdamPrideTN ( talk) 10:50, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
Thank you AdamPrideTN2 ( talk) 23:48, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
Hi! Do you know how the names of the five newly named Jovian moons ( Ersa, Pandia, Eupheme, Philophrosyne, and Eirene) should be pronounced? Double sharp ( talk) 07:18, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
Looking them up. Our article Pandion was wrong -- that's a long iota in Greek. — kwami ( talk) 07:56, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
Hi Kwami,
I was wondering if we could possibly make a distinction on the File:Same-sex marriage in the United States.svg same-sex marriage in the United States map between counties refusing to perform same-sex marriage and tribal nations that do not perform. I also am wondering if there is a way that tribes that do perform same-sex marriage could also be shown on the map. Currently, if a tribal nation performs, it gets blanked into the blue and my concern is that some who see the map might not get the nuance that some tribes recognize and some tribes do not; that some of these are counties, not tribal nations. I don't want people to get the perception that no tribes perform, thereby hurting people's perceptions of Indian Country. The counties could be with a different color; for tribal nations that perform, it could be noted either by another color, such as light blue, or it could be noted by an outline of the reservation. Or they could be "blanked into the blue" as they currently are. I'm open to debate on it.
Though I'm not sure what the end product would look like on the second request. Would it make said Nations look like Nations that do not perform?
Thanks,
- TenorTwelve ( talk) 01:04, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
The problem is that we don't have adequate sources. Of the ca. 500 'Tribes', do you even have a ref for which ones have their own marriage laws? We'd end up leaving the majority of those blank as 'unknown'. As it is, the list is certain to be incomplete. The ones that are there are either ones that have been in the news, or where we've been able to find their marriage laws. But I suspect that in a lot of cases the issue hasn't been decided yet, so we'd have that category in addition to 'don't know', if we could even tell them apart. It would be an absolute mess. As for distinguishing the Alabama counties, that would mean adding a color/category that doesn't exist on any of the other maps. Do you have any suggestions? (Light blue doesn't work, that has a different meaning.) — kwami ( talk) 01:12, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
A source that says how "papaveraceous" is pronounced is not a source for how "Papaveraceae" is pronounced. As an example, consider how "audacious" and "audacity" are pronounced. In the first, the "da" is as in "day", in the second as in "dash". A change of ending matters. You need a source for the word itself, not a related word. Peter coxhead ( talk) 20:23, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
Because I have no idea what you're basing this on and it will be hard to track down them all. Serendi pod ous 22:23, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
You mean for DPs? There are only two that are established to be in HE, Ceres and Pluto, per our sources in those articles. — kwami ( talk) 23:01, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
The ref to the moons is repeated several places in the Saturn articles. — kwami ( talk) 00:58, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
Because that's what the refs say, as I already told you. If you can debunk the ref, fine. Otherwise you're just edit-warring. — kwami ( talk) 22:14, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
This was published just 5 years ago in Nature, in an article working out the shape of the moon, which concluded that it froze out of equilibrium at approx. 32 Earth radii (it's now at 60). I actually got it from a reliable 2ary source that cited it, so it's even got that going for it. If it were wrong, Nature would've retracted it by now and I doubt ppl would still be citing it. It's far more likely that I misinterpreted it than that it's wrong, but you'd need to explain to me where I went wrong.
As for your second point, no, that doesn't follow. Luna has a solid rock mantle with a small metal core. The other large moons have ice mantles with rock cores, and may have global sub-surface oceans as well. I think the only other solid-rock ellipsoidal moon is Io, and that's melted by tidal forces. Europa's mostly rock as well, but we know it has an ocean, which by definition (it's liquid water) is in HE. So it could easily be the case that Luna has frozen out of equilibrium but that, say, Triton and Pluto have not. — kwami ( talk) 01:17, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
No, I was talking about the source that I used. I don't know why you don't just look it up. Your ref is interesting too, but it's several years older and doesn't comment on the more recent work published in Nature. — kwami ( talk) 01:31, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
BTW, Brown and others have noted that the size required for body to be in HE depends on its composition. The smallest possible rocky DP will be larger than the smallest possible icy DP. They also seem to have grossly underestimated the pressures that ice can withstand at those temperatures (e.g. see Grundy et al.). Early discussions of what could be a DP almost never took into account the fact that a body could relax into HE and later freeze out, though this did come up with Vesta and Phoebe. — kwami ( talk) 01:38, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
No, it's not a link. But you can copy the article title and do a search for it. You'll get a number of hits, some of which will be online copies of the article. I don't understand what's difficult here.
As for what the ref is, the ref is the ref. Author, date, article title, journal, volume, page numbers -- what more do you expect? — kwami ( talk) 01:41, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
It could be that the crust froze out of HE at ca. 32 earth radii but that the mantle is still in HE. That would seem to be an ambiguous situation. I don't recall the article saying anything like that, though. Your book ref also mentioned that the moon was not in a HE shape, and discussed the difficulties of explaining this. The Nature article does explain it, or at least tries to. As for saying it's "disputed", we'd need a RS that it's disputed. Us not understanding a ref isn't the same thing as a fact being disputed by the scientific community, not at all. Now, if you want to run this by Wikiproject astronomy and have them explain how I've misunderstood the article, that would be fine. But that wouldn't make it disputed either -- it would just make me wrong. — kwami ( talk) 02:08, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
Also, for the articles we mention this in other than Moon itself, we're mostly comparing dwarf/satellite planets that may or may not be in HE. Other than perhaps Ceres, all we have to go on is the shapes of their crusts. So if we're going to argue that the Moon really is in HE because its mantle is (if it turns out that's the case), then how can we discuss whether any other mid-sized body in the Solar System is in HE? All the ones that are in equilibrium shape could have frozen solid after they spun down, so it looks like they're still in HE, while for any that aren't in an equilibrium shape we could argue that they're really in HE but it's just invisible. It would make the concept utterly useless for classifying minor planets at our current state of knowledge. It may well be that the concept is useless for classification, of course, but I'd want some good sources that a body with a non-HE shape can be in HE, just as a body with an HE shape can be not in HE. — kwami ( talk) 02:16, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
Regarding the same-sex marriage map for Europe:
While I have mixed thoughts on removing other countries so the map only shows European countries, if we are only showing European countries, Kazakhstan is a European country, specifically, a transcontinental country in Europe and Asia. Note that Kazakhstan is listed as a European country on the LGBT rights in Europe page and the page for Europe. Would you mind adding Kazakhstan to the map?
Thanks,
- TenorTwelve ( talk) 09:22, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
Hi Kwami. I came across a user using ethnologue extensively (Re here) and seem to recall a discussion about whether it was a reliable source or not. Any ideas? -- regentspark ( comment) 23:28, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
Hi @ Kwamikagami: I have updated all the Indian languages figures as per Ethnologue 2019 source kindly correct it if I have done any wrong. Changes made Hindi, Bengali language, Tamil language, Kashmiri language, Marathi language, Punjabi language, Gujarati language, Telugu language, Kannada, Malayalam, Odia language, Nepali language. Also ensure that you don't remove the L2 speakers data as it would help people understand the native speakers and second language speakers.Thanks-- Caseasauria ( talk) 07:06, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
Hi, could you revert the move you did in that article? It is controversial and needs a consensus first. Open a move request in the talk page please. Also what's that () at the end?-- SharabSalam ( talk) 05:45, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
Your recent work on Finnic people created a disambiguation page. As a result, we now have a problem at Template:Ethnic groups in Europe. Could you please fix that link to the disambiguation page, as I assume that you know what group of Finns to point to. The Banner talk 09:10, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
resonances are not arithmetically exact fractions of other planets' orbits; they librate around a specific fraction and, over time, average out that fraction. Serendi pod ous 13:18, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
Hello, your redirect from Finnic peoples to Baltic Finns was without consensus - You did not ask for any feedback on this on the talk page. As a result, I am quite bothered by this. This topic has been discussed previously in length on the talk page of the article. There were specific reasons why the article was called Finnic peoples, not Baltic Finns. If you think "Baltic Finns" are a subgroup of "Finnic peoples", not a synonym, then please provide reliable academic references for that. All academic sources I have read so far treat finnic peoples and baltic finns as synonyms, not separate groups. Blomsterhagens ( talk) 20:37, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
@ Blomsterhagens: There are plenty of refs, as you can see w a simple Google search. Also, a large number of the links from WP articles to "Finnic peoples" were intended for the Volga Finns, or else where ambiguous between the Baltic, Volga and Permians, and no-one ever bothered to clean them up. These included articles on ethnography, history, religion, genetics, etc. Whoever wanted to change the definition of "Finnic" should have at least taken the responsibility to clean up the mess they left behind. I gave it a try, and redirected over a hundred articles, but there are still a couple dozen links to 'Finnic peoples' where I couldn't determine what the scope was supposed to be because our sources are ambiguous. I think history and genetics are probably the worst culprits for not defining what they mean by "Finnic", but in many cases they seem to mean something other than Baltic.
Given the mess we had, and the ambiguity of so many sources, IMO it's problematic to restrict "Finnic" to any one definition. Doing so will just cause confusion for editors using sources that use a different definition.
With linguistics, it seems to be more reasonable to have the Balto-Finnic languages at Finnic languages -- and indeed I think I'm the one who moved the article there -- because the linguistic sources we use for our articles usually (though not always) define the scope of what they mean by "Finnic". — kwami ( talk) 20:40, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
Yes, but they can mean two different things. "German people" get more hits than "Germanic peoples", but that doesn't mean we should rename the latter. Also, we have separate articles on the Volga Finns, Permians and Saami. It would be weird to not have an article on the Baltic Finns, and that's clearly what many people were understanding the article to be (e.g. check the categories). If you want to merge the articles, that's fine by me, or if you want to split off the generic stuff to the 'Finnic' article and leave the specific stuff to Baltic, Volga, Permian etc., that would be fine too (and probably better, give the length of the articles). But not having an article on the Balto-Finnic peoples, when we have hundreds of incoming links, would be quite confusing. I suppose we could have a stub that essentially says 'the Baltic Finns aren't worth a WP article', as you are effectively suggesting, but that would hardly be encyclopedic.
And really, if the current article is so badly written that you can't tell what it's talking about, then it desperately needs rewriting. We shouldn't move it to an ambiguous name because we don't know what the scope is supposed to be. I'm happy to have a generic Finnic article in addition to a Balto-Finnic article. I'd be fine with the Balto-Finnic article being called "Finnic" if we were consistent across WP and could clean things up to support that. — kwami ( talk) 21:05, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
Check the incoming links to Finnic peoples. Can you tell what they're supposed to be? Many of them characterize the Finnic peoples as Siberian. And that's after I renamed dozens of "Finnic" links to Volga Finns or Permians.
Also, if you think 'Finnic' and 'Balto-Finnic' are synonyms, why were you having trouble figuring out whether the article covered all the Finnic peoples or just the Baltic Finns, and think the article would need to be split? — kwami ( talk) 21:17, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
( edit conflict) Yes, the ideal solution would be to rename the links. But, as I explained above, many of the sources are ambiguous, so what should they be renamed to? And given the many many ambiguous sources, who's going to police all new links that people add in the future? It's obvious no-one ever tried, before I cleaned things up. And since I won't be policing the 'links here' list, it's likely that no-one will. (Before you volunteer, remember that you'll need to police it as long as Wikipedia exists, or can hand the job off to someone with the dedication to do that.) Thus using an ambiguous name for a narrower scope will just lapse back into confusion. Regardless of whether we like the name, 'Baltic Finns' at least has the benefit that the reader can tell what it's talking about. Better to have a disliked but clear title than an article that's so confused in scope as to be useless to our readers. I'd be happy to have some other name, but it needs to be functional. — kwami ( talk) 21:19, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
But neither 'Finnic' nor 'Balto-Finnic' are wrong. A closer analogy would be whether to name it 'Finland' or the 'Republic of Finland'. If there were several polities that were named 'Finland', and hundreds of sources used the name 'Finland' to mean something other than the republic (if, say, the word 'Finland' were commonly used to mean the non-Swedish parts of the republic, plus Karelia, Lapland and the Volga basin), then it might make sense to move 'Finland' to 'Republic of Finland'. Especially if many sources used in our articles were so ambiguous that we couldn't tell which 'Finland' they were referring to. — kwami ( talk) 21:32, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
'Again'? You never said that. And now that you have, it's clear you don't know what you're talking about. The Finns and Estonians are Uralic too, to the extent that 'Uralic' has any ethnological meaning at all. As to whether the others speak Finnic languages, according to some sources they do. But that's a question of linguistic classification, which is largely irrelevant to which peoples are "Finnic". Just the fact that you called them the "Volga Finns" is an admission that they're called "Finns" in the lit. So, when some source says "Finns", who are they referring to? How do we tell? And how do we police WP to ensure that all the links go to the correct Finnic article? — kwami ( talk) 21:43, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
No, I'm not going to sabotage Wikipedia because you don't like something. As for helping, are you going to dedicate the rest of your life to policing the links, and pass that responsibility on to your heirs when you die? The current name may not reflect your definition of the word, but that doesn't may it "factually incorrect". And again, I'd be perfectly happy to have the article at some other name, but it needs to be unambiguous so as to not regenerate the problems that needed clean-up. If have a reasonable alternative, including a dab like "Finnic peoples (...)", please share. — kwami ( talk) 21:47, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
No, I'm not going to waste my time. You can go a little work. Once again (it's annoying to keep having to repeat myself), you can check the incoming links for the sources. — kwami ( talk) 21:52, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
What do you mean you "didn't find any"? That can only mean you didn't bother to look. If you're not going to make even a modicum of effort, then I'm done wasting my time with you. — kwami ( talk) 21:57, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
Another clear source, this time from the University of Tartu is here, map 97. It clearly marks the areas of the Finnic peoples. It also clearly notes that the Finnic people are often also called "Baltic Finns", thus again confirming that these two terms are synonyms. Blomsterhagens ( talk) 15:53, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
Edit: *If* some sources group these peoples differently, then that should be covered on the main Finnic peoples article as a subtopic. But the article itself should *not* have been renamed just because inter-WP linking is incorrect in places. Also, maybe as another solution, there can be a Finnic peoples page and a Finnic peoples (disambiguation) page. Blomsterhagens ( talk) 15:58, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
As I read the law passed, if NI gets its act together on Monday, October 21st, then a good chunk of this bill including the Marriage Equality is N&V. The chance the NI Executive gets its act together is tiny, but not zero, IMO.
Hi. Could you help me with the translation of the colour description under the maps from russian articles about same-sex marriage? In the articles "Однополый брак" and "Однополые браки в США" you inserted maps with incorrect translation of the colour description. The meaning of the translation does not quite correspond to the original in English. Probably there was used automatic translation.
Under this map [File:World marriage-equality laws (up to date).svg],
— the line “Ограниченное признание браков за границей” should be replaced by “Ограниченное признание иностранных браков”.
Under this map [File:Same-sex marriage in the United States.svg],
— the line “Гомосексуальное признание брака в Соединенных Штатах” should be replaced by “Правовой статус однополых браков в Соединённых Штатах”;
— the line “Однополые браки заключены” should be replaced by “Заключаются однополые браки”;
— the line “Признание иностранных однополых браков” should be replaced by “Однополые браки признаются, но не заключаются”;
— the line “Нет признания (тире: смешанная юрисдикция)” should be replaced by “Однополые браки не признаются (полосы: смешанные юрисдикции)”.
I will be grateful for the help.
Shinkai20 (
talk)
15:17, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
Hi, you said "Finnic peoples" is an ambiguous term. It's as ambiguous as "Finno-Ugric peoples" or "Uralic peoples". If the ambiguity arises from the fact that we don't know if the finnic peoples are in the Baltic area or in the Siberian area, then saying "spoken around the baltic sea by finnic peoples" solves that problem, no? Blomsterhagens ( talk) 10:23, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, that would work fine. Or we could just remove the word 'around', which I just did -- though the greater precision of your wording may be better. BTW, I rv'd the change from FU to Uralic ppls, as I figured an ethnic article should link to another ethnic article. If we're gonna use the language article, maybe better to alert the reader by saying 'who speak Uralic languages'. — kwami ( talk) 18:09, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
Not a vandal... I just like going to the Syria War page for the map to see how it is going. Took me 5 minutes see where it'd gone.
I now see I can expand it, so I personally am good. But want to help other people be able to see the info, which as far as I'm aware is the best, most updated, map on the internet.
I'm a newb, but hope you and other editors will fix the infobox soon to conform with technical standards so that other people can easily see the info! — Preceding unsigned comment added by MaximumIdeas ( talk • contribs) 19:50, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
@ MaximumIdeas: Yeah, it's a real mess. Not going to be fixed any time soo, I don't think. I just started a vote on how to fix it, if you want to state your pref (on the article's talk page). — kwami ( talk) 19:57, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
@ Kwamikagami: Yeah. Thanks for the poll, just responded there. MaximumIdeas ( talk) 20:10, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
Hi, what about starting a new Uralic peoples page? Even if it's just a disambiguation page at first. The fact that Uralic peoples links to a language page is clearly something that could be fixed. Blomsterhagens ( talk) 21:40, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
No, we had consensus to delete that article. There's no coherent subject of "Uralic peoples" apart from the Finno-Ugric peoples, and those are only a valid topic because there are some FU cultural associations, and even then it's usually more Finnic than Finno-Ugric. It's not like the Nenets, Saami and Magyar have a shared ethnic identity. It would be an appropriate article if it discussed the culture etc of the speakers of proto-Uralic (e.g., 'Indo-European peoples' redirects to 'Proto-Indo-Europeans'), but currently there's probably not enough to split off the language-family article. (And it should probably be called s.t. like 'Proto-Uralians'.)
THere used to be a lot of "X peoples" articles, where X was some language family. But ethnographic article should be justifiable as ethnography, which some linguistic cladistic model is not. Most of them were complete garbage, and were magnets for additional garbage, and the few useful bits could be merged into the family article or relevant ethnographic articles where they were less likely to attract crackpots. I mean, we had spurious articles on 'Altaic peoples', 'Nilo-Saharan peoples', 'Papuan peoples', 'Sino-Tibetan peoples', as if they had any objective reality. We made a rare exception for Finno-Ugric peoples, because of those cultural associations, but I wonder if it shouldn't be merged with Finnic peoples. — kwami ( talk) 22:01, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
I understand that Finnic and FU are not synonyms. What I was wondering was whether there was enough of a distinction to bother with two articles. Your Balto-Slavic comparison doesn't work because there's no 'Balto-Slavic people' either. As for a dab page, what use would it serve? A rd to the language-family article is sufficient. What other links would there be?
Yes, there's a lot of nonsense in the lit by people who reify linguistic theories because they're unwilling or incapable of doing the ethnographic work. That doesn't mean we should follow. There are also a lot of people who use the phrase "Uralic people(s)" as shorthand for "people who speak Uralic languages", but that belongs in the language-family article. If it had its own article, we'd be constantly fighting with people who don't know better than to take the phrase literally, as an ethnic identification. One of the problems with doing that is that when language theories change, it looks as though people's ethnic identities change. There is no "Ugric people", for example, just a linguistic theory that many have now abandoned. Ethnicity doesn't depend on what linguists identify or reject. (E.g., if we discovered that an undocumented purportedly Saami language -- classified as such based on the ethnic identity of its speakers -- was actually Finnic, Germanic or a creole, etc., that wouldn't mean the people were no longer Saami.) — kwami ( talk) 22:41, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
Hi, maybe you can give your opinion on this topic on the talk page. I don't understand the reasoning for discounting a source by the editor. Or why the word itself is an issue. Blomsterhagens ( talk) 23:02, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
Hey,
I know this is not a commonly used term, but what are your thoughts on something like that for the alternative article title for Baltic Finnic peoples? The current title is good enough, but as you also mentioned, and has been mentioned in literature, whenever "Baltic" is included, it tends to be confused with "Baltic peoples". I wonder how to best approach this issue. Or "Finnic peoples of the Baltic Sea", or "Finnic peoples of Northeastern Europe". Thoughts? Blomsterhagens ( talk) 15:06, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
@ Blomsterhagens: Yes, I've seen West Finnic as well, but as I think I mentioned somewhere, they aren't necessarily synonyms. When I saw it, the Mari were identified as a West Finnic people (presumably contrasting with the Permians?).
As for possible confusion, I don't think it's a problem in a dedicated article, unlike a broader-topic book that switches back and forth between multiple peoples. We have hat notes and the lead sentence to take care of that -- hat notes for topics it might be confused with, and the lead sentence to ID exactly what the topic is. The problem with making up new titles is that they may have unforseen connotations. Especially informal phrasing such as this, which will likely be taken literally. If a Mari family moved to Tallinn, they would arguably be 'Finnic people by the Baltic Sea', while the Veps and Karelians aren't really by the sea. I think that might be a greater potential for confusion than 'Baltic Finn(ic)', some variant of which is the usual wording when disambiguation is needed. — kwami ( talk) 18:08, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
Hi kwami!
The page Lexical similarity – which is heavily Ethnologue-leaning – mentions "a standardized set of wordlists" employed to establish figures of similarity. The wording on the Ethnologue site actually is "a set of standardized wordlists", but what bugs me more: are you aware of any concrete and publicly accessible wordlist which is universally used by the Ethnologue team? I only know a couple of SIL lists for specific regions. Any non-specialist reading the page is left with no idea about what a basic wordlist means (check the wise-cracking comments on the Talk page about the 60%-similarity between German and English). For want of better information, I have added a link to Swadesh list, the mother of all wordlists, but a reference to more concrete material would be ideal. – Austronesier ( talk) 13:40, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
Sorry, I don't. In the case of published findings, they may specify the wordlist, but AFAIK that info is not generally available. Even if a ref is given in the Ethn. language article, there isn't always a corresponding entry in the biblio. — kwami ( talk) 18:59, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
Na na na na na, na na na na na na na. Na na na na? Na, na na na; na na na na-na na na.
Na!
(Wandered over and saw User:Kwamikagami#Proto-human_(language). Love it. Made me think of that one scene from "Being John Malkovich" where Malkovich winds up inside his own head.
Related faves of mine: Deriving Proto-World with tools you probably have at home, and How likely are chance resemblances between languages? Cheers! ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 20:04, 25 October 2019 (UTC))
Hi, I've nominated the redirect Yogyakarta Sign Langauge for deletion. The discussion is at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 November 4#Redirects with "langauge". Thanks! – Uanfala (talk) 14:16, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
And now one more: Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2019_November_8#East_Central_zone. – Uanfala (talk) 01:17, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
Hi kwami! Have you noticed, looks as if SIL has scrapped the OA language pages from earlier editions from the Ethnologue website. We have thousands of dead links now... – Austronesier ( talk) 16:42, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
Google didn't find a single other site with the wording "360,000 in Benin (2006). Population total all countries: 550,000.", apart from one that tries to download a doc. So if SIL just changed the addresses, Google hasn't discovered that yet. But I don't see a link for previous editions any more. — kwami ( talk) 23:44, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
There were a number of discussions about Pōwehi when the name was proposed. [5] [6] The general consensus was that we shouldn't include mention of it. I would be interested in hearing your reasons for the change at Talk:Messier 87 but for now I have undone your recent edit. -- mikeu talk 00:31, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
Hi Kwamikagami, I was wondering if we can just close that discussion about moving Sana’a to Sana'a by simply reverting your move. You didn't start a discussion before the move. I think we need to just move all Sana’a articles that you moved, back to the stable version (Sana'a) and then we can have a proper RM to either Sanaa or Sana’a. Do you think that would be okay?. Thanks.-- SharabSalam ( talk) 10:48, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
Your obsession with what is or is not a DP or what is or is not in HE has not been backed up by any citations or reliable secondary sources and is only serving to clutter Wikipedia with confusing contradictions. Build up your source base before using Wikipedia as your platform. Serendi pod ous 15:12, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
Hi kwami, just to give you a picture of the IP who keeps us busy: [7]. Found him (safely use a gender pronoun here ;) in the page history of "Aragonese people". – Austronesier ( talk) 15:40, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
And what does any of that have to do with you claiming that certain peoples form an ethnic group based solely on some linguistic hypothesis? When the hypothesis is rejected, do they cease to be cousins? If you can define ethnicity independently of language, and then see how closely it corresponds to language, fine. But if you define ethnicity based on language, and then justify it because the languages are related, then you're engaged in circular reasoning. There's too much of that kind of garbage on WP as it is. — kwami ( talk) 22:25, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for uploading File:Thunder Bay CBC sign in Ojibwe.png, which you've attributed to CBC. I noticed that while you provided a valid copyright licensing tag, there is no proof that the creator of the file has agreed to release it under the given license.
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Greetings! I am writing to you regarding the topic of Slovenia you partook in earlier today.
To be perfectly honest, I was relieved when you appeared in the talk section - I remember you from a couple of years ago when there was some row of similar nature (I fail to recall the specifics, sadly - but you made a stance of sufficient memorability that after all this time, I still remember it).
I have also just published my reply to Jingiby's arbitrary inclusion of inaccurate and fallacious information in pursuit of certain personal agenda that is, at least to me, in contrary to the broadest sense of what Wikipedia is about - sharing knowledge backed by established, neutral and generally attainable sources of no dubious nature and detached from any subjective sentiment.
I have made three attempts to correct his "additions", only for my contributions (for which I provided a reference that was already in place before - the CIA World Factbook) to be reverted, with the reversion being accompanied with his warning of an imminent block or ban (as you can see on my talk page). His talk page is inaccessable to me, furthermore, browsing through his recent history of edits, it becomes apparent he engages in a certain, to use a term of much informality, "moral crusade", disregarding any sort of received criticism. That shows in his unilateral neglect of my referenced points, not discussing their contents (that directly contradict the information he provided) but rather replying with subjective excerpts from obscure sources that do not, as is evident, deal with the topic at hand in any way, even emphasising derogatory sentiments reminiscent of the rhetoric of Milosevic's regime in the 90s (to explain - in the Serbian media, Slovenia was presented as an entity of traitors who wanted to abandon the "Motherland" Serbia, picturing them as a group of people who regarded themselves as "superior" - the stance apparently adopted by D.Norris whom Jingiby cited). Sadko's inclusion in the debate follows the same pattern.
In such situation, I turn to you - I have been a Wikipedia editor before (though a long time ago - so long in fact, I had to make a new account to contribute in this specific matter as I forgot my previous username), but have never experienced anything of that sort. I usually shrug such things off, yet this one is an exception - both because of his obvious political motive determining the nature of his contributions and the effect his inclusion could have (Wikipedia is after all the leading source of reference material on the Internet, with articles of countries being a major factor in the way a certain country is percieved) on the readers of the article. For that reason, I ask - what can be done in order to permanently restore the former state of the page? I am not familiar with reports on vandalism or spamming, neither on contacting the RCP.
I am deeply grateful for your help! -- Øksfjord ( talk) 19:01, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
BTW, if this is a dispute that is likely to recur, it is probably best to have a mediated discussion on the talk page to come to some kind of consensus. Who knows, you and Jingiby might come to respect each other as editors and find you can work together. If you can do that, then in the future if someone tries to change the result, you can revert them and refer to the prior consensus as justification. If the dispute escalates, people are likely to side with you because of that prior consensus, unless the new party wants to re-open the debate and come to a new consensus -- but they'd need to do that on the talk page before changing the article. — kwami ( talk) 19:44, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
This very alibi confronts us with the first of many paradoxes concerning Balkan: its geographic delimitation was never precise. It is as if one can never receive a definitive answer to the question, "Where does it begin?" For Serbs, it begins down there in Kosovo or Bosnia, and they defend the Christian civilization against this Europe's Other. For Croats, it begins with the Orthodox, despotic, Byzantine Serbia, against which Croatia defends the values of democratic Western civilization. For Slovenes, it begins with Croatia, and we Slovenes are the last outpost of the peaceful Mitteleuropa. For Italians and Austrians, it begins with Slovenia, where the reign of the Slavic hordes starts. For Germans, Austria itself, on account of its historic connections, is already tainted by the Balkanic corruption and inefficiency. For some arrogant Frenchmen, Germany is associated with the Balkanian Eastern savagery — up to the extreme case of some conservative anti-European-Union Englishmen for whom, in an implicit way, it is ultimately the whole of continental Europe itself that functions as a kind of Balkan Turkish global empire with Brussels as the new Constantinople, the capricious despotic center threatening English freedom and sovereignty. So Balkan is always the Other: it lies somewhere else, always a little bit more to the southeast, with the paradox that, when we reach the very bottom of the Balkan peninsula, we again magically escape Balkan. Greece is no longer Balkan proper, but the cradle of our Western civilization.
Thanks for that! I wonder if it would be acceptable in the article. — kwami ( talk) 22:03, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, I love it. I added it to Balkans, but it's probably a bit long for some people. I can't see any good way to trim it, though. — kwami ( talk) 22:40, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
Hi kwami! It's quite a while, but can you remember the source for this edit? I can't find anything about it in DeLancey's publications, and there's a cn-tag from 2007. Was it a Linguist List post, or maybe p.c.? I want to add some info about a 2018 paper that DeLancey has published in AA about Inland Penutian, where he restricts it to Yok-Utian and Plateau, so I'm not quite sure whether I should leave the old stuff in the subsection "Recent hypotheses" or just scrap it. – Austronesier ( talk) 15:42, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
here is his 1996 "Penutian in the bipartite stem belt: Disentangling areal and genetic correspondences", which should give some clues as to his position a decade before I made that edit. — kwami ( talk) 17:26, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
Mithun 1999 selected Delancey & Golla 1997 (The Penutian Hypothesis, retrospect and prospects. IJAL 63, 171-202) as the primary source at the time.
Golla 2011 (The California Indian Languages) gives the following 'provisional' subgrouping -
---
Sounds good. I don't know the paper is unpublished, however. It might be that he was cited by someone else, and if he still agrees with it, it might be worth keeping. — kwami ( talk) 19:07, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
I don't understand why you moved Bahá’í literature → Bahá’í literature (). "not punctuation"?? Please explain, thanks. wbm1058 ( talk) 22:08, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
Yes, both of those got messed up. Replied on Wbm's talk page. — kwami ( talk) 22:16, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
Thanks. I've tagged both spurious pages for deletion, as they have no incoming links. — kwami ( talk) 23:30, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
Hi, your AWB edits appear to be consistently moving short descriptions down in the article, placing them after hatnotes and protection templates (like here). But they're meant to be at the very top, before anything else: MOS:ORDER. I really hope that's not a bug in AWB. – Uanfala (talk) 21:18, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, that's a bug in AWB. I have it set for 'apply general fixes'. — kwami ( talk) 21:20, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
haven't seen you in a while. ♦ Lingzhi2 (talk) 23:59, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
Hi Lingnut! Yeah, been a while. Didn't recognize your new name. — kwami ( talk) 08:54, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
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Hey Kwamikagami, I was looking at contributors to the family of IPA-x templates, such as Template:IPA-ja and your name appeared a lot, which is why I'm here. There was a recent discussion about a different group of language templates (xx-icon) that had the same design approach as these - a template for each language. That discussion resulted in changing the design to one template that accepts as a parameter the language - so in this example, instead of {{ IPA-ja}} it would be {{IPA|ja}}. For editors, the change is very minimal as instead of a hyphen they use a vertical bar, but the behind the scenes can now be maintained much more reasonably. Now if you want to apply a change to all templates, you need to update each individual template, once consolidated, there is need for only one edit. As you seem to be one of the maintainers of these templates, would you know where the correct place would be to discuss such a change before TfD? -- Gonnym ( talk) 14:13, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
Re this name shift, there is no contemporary 'community' I know of self-identifying as wekiweki, which is just one of several spellings. Could you elucidate? Thanks in anticipation. Nishidani ( talk) 12:22, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
Murray River between a point 15 miles (24 km.)above Murrumbidgee Junction and Swan Hill; at Piangil;extending northward to about Moolpa, N.S.W. According to Cameron, the name Narinari is also applied to this tribe but there is some evidence to show they are separate peoples.According to Stone, the Wembawemba called the dialect of the Watiwati tribe Burrea.
Tyrrell Creek and Lake Tyrrell south to Warracknabeal and Birchip; west to Hopetoun; on Morton Plains.p.208
Sure. Go ahead and move it back (or I will). I don't know the lit, so you decide what's best. — kwami ( talk) 22:37, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
Hi kwami, we have talked about it before, but maybe you want to mention the case of Muna as an attested occurrence: [9], p. 19.
There is further a fresh MA thesis about the Central Flores languages (yup, I've already created an article from it and other sources): [10]. Unfortunately, Elias only goes into detail for Lio, where he describes the implosive as apico-alveolar (p. 31). There is also a sketch for Ngadha, but here he lumps all apical and laminal consonants as "coronals" (p. 82). So it's neither a confirmation nor a contradiction for the old claim that Ngadha has a retroflex implosive. – Austronesier ( talk) 15:40, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
Hi Kwamikagami, I recently finished an article for Santiago Baháʼí Temple, which has (after some difficulty) been moved to the mainspace. Now I am hoping to add a bunch of redirects because of the wide range of names used to identify the building, but I can't seem to understand the orthography conventions. I saw you corrected the Baháʼí orthography for several articles so I wanted to ask you: how do you tell the three versions of the accents apart in order to 1) use the correct one, and 2) add separate redirects for all of them? It would be great if you could briefly clarify this for me ( Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Bahá'í spelling does not seem to help). Thanks very much. Gazelle55 ( talk) 21:09, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
Here's how you can test if the hamza/ayin letters are correct. Clip the word and paste in the search box. I just tried that with the <ʼ> in the <Baháʼí> in your article title, and it took me to modifier letter apostrophe. Note that's a Unicode letter, and so correct for transcribing a letter. If your search had instead taken you to quotation mark, then it would've been the wrong code point (a punctuation mark rather than a letter -- this can make a difference in computer files even if they look the same).
Similarly, if you search for the <ʻ> in <ʻAlí>, it will take you to ʻokina, which is an alphabetic letter an therefor correct. Again, if it had taken you to 'quotation mark', it would've been wrong. BTW, in the 'okina article they show how 'okina and the quote mark look a little different in a good font. I believe that Hawaiians chose the six-shape for 'okina rather than the nine-shape so that it would be easily distinguished from a curly apostrophe. — kwami ( talk) 23:05, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
If you search the page for ASCII <'>, you'll find all instances of curly quotes as well. I just did that in your article, and it looks like there's just one curly quote in the text, a bunch in the refs, and one in the external links. The only straight ASCII apostrophe in another word/name is in Mashriqu'l-Adhkár, but that actually is an apostrophe (a contraction of the article "al") and so correct. — kwami ( talk) 23:16, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
I see you have submitted articles to Featured article review in the past six months. Here is a template listing FAs (and dates) with talk page notifications that a Featured article review is needed. According to the FAR instructions, after waiting five to seven days to see if anyone engages to address the issues, anyone can bring an article to FAR, subject to a) no more than one nomination every two weeks; and b) no more than four nominations on the page at one time, unless permission for more is given by a FAR coordinator. Regards, SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 21:29, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
In the future, please discuss changes on talk pages before doing major reorganizing of articles on Papuan language families.
What is your rationale for following Usher's classifications? Those are not mainstream classifications. There is way too much lumping that confuses areal influences with genetic inheritance. Foley, Hammarstrom, Pawley, and other Papuanists show strong evidence that Papuan families need to be split, not lumped. As you may already know, Usher operates on the fringes of Papuan linguistics, and his classifications are not universally accepted. For example, Taiap is certainly not Torricelli, but Usher claims it is.
Foja Range languages and South Pauwasi languages are not in Glottolog, Ethnologue, or any other major publication, and I suggest we wait until these proposed families can be better demonstrated. — Sagotreespirit ( talk) 04:55, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
I have no problem with splitting the article, but you're misusing the word ' hypothesis'. And 'alternative' to which classification, since these languages are otherwise unclassified? (Hammerstrom misuses the term 'isolate' to mean 'unclassified'.) As for definitive groupings, there are none in New Guinea, not even Austronesian, whose limits there are unclear in many places and will require the other families to be worked out. Wurm is obsolete. Ross is based almost entirely on 1sg and 2sg PNs, which are insufficient (and the remainder is typology, which is not reliable). Wichmann is an automated comparison, which is unreliable. Pawley is far more lumpist than Usher. — kwami ( talk) 20:18, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
My problem wasn't with the word 'likely', but that you had misattributed the sources.
Usher does not claim NWNG is demonstrated. It is a tentative proposal, with the similarities perhaps being due to loans rather than inheritance -- thus the label 'proposed' in the info box. Papuan Gulf and NENG are also still tentative.
BTW, it appears that Foley also misuses the term 'isolate'. An isolate is an established language family, not a language that is so poorly attested that we can't be sure of its relations. E.g., in his subchapter on "The isolate Elseng", Foley says it is "very poorly documented" and that proposed classifications are not warranted by available evidence or are not established. Such languages are more properly called 'unclassified'. There are only a few established isolates in New Guinea, as it takes much more complete data to show that a language isn't related to all potential relatives than it is to show that it is related to just one of them. — kwami ( talk) 03:03, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
Hello, Which is correct ? Thanks. ( Jkrn111 ( talk) 00:10, 4 February 2020 (UTC)).
Hello. Please can you help out with fixing links to dab Khariboli, especially those from templates? It's not obvious to the layman which meaning is intended. Thanks, Certes ( talk) 22:53, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
I fixed most of them. But for many I have no idea which it is. — kwami ( talk) 08:31, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
Hello Kwami. ( Jkrn111 ( talk) 13:15, 26 February 2020 (UTC)).
Hi. I just went back to Foley, and realized that he used "Upper Yuat" as well, so I'll move the article. I've been avoiding Usher's names when they differ from the rest of the lit, and missed that this wasn't his invention. — kwami ( talk) 23:04, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
I put in a tech move request. — kwami ( talk) 23:30, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
Please take a look at the talk page for List of adjectivals and demonyms of astronomical bodies You've been making quite a few edits to that page recently. The recent comments on the talk page are from editors who don't even think the article should exist, or at least should be drastically modified (with much of the content removed.) Fcrary ( talk) 22:40, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
I know you are currently busy adding content to infoboxes for natural satellite pages, but I would like to let you know that the last numbers of the satellite designation should be preceded by a space, like S/2010 J 1. Nrco0e ( talk · contribs) 05:35, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
Hi, Why do you think this is an imitation? The description from the author doesn't seem to accredit your assumption. -- Basile Morin ( talk) 08:53, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
FYI, links to Lsjbot articles for NG geo features are at User:Sagotreespirit/New Guinea geography. Hoping to get started when I have some time. Many of the Cebuano articles cite only Geonames, so we'll need to dig up some more RS. — Sagotreespirit ( talk) 01:11, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
Thanks a lot. I was dreading creating PNG maps for all of them, and just gave up. The dot on a generic map is enough to start, and if some of them become more important, maybe someone will create more detailed maps. At least we have stubs to link to now. — kwami ( talk) 02:36, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
The lists here should also be pretty useful. Many district and village names correspond to language and dialect names.
— Sagotreespirit ( talk) 22:01, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
Template:Infobox ethnic group has been
nominated for merging with
Template:Infobox ethnonym. You are invited to comment on the discussion at
the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you.
PPEMES (
talk)
14:05, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
I am in awe of your work. Kudos. Double sharp ( talk) 12:00, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
Hello, Kwami, Could You please help if possible ? Please Look at my talk page, the last discussion. I am confused, You never had problem with my way of categorization. We worked together. Am I still allowed to continue editing the way you know well? I created many categories (maybe more than one hundred) and it was ok for admins. Please let me know. Thank You Very Much. Jan ( Jkrn111 ( talk) 12:13, 31 March 2020 (UTC)).
Hello Kwami, ? btw, thank you for your help. Jan K., Prague ( Jkrn111 ( talk) 13:02, 1 April 2020 (UTC)).
Should I delete the category Kaki Ae–Eleman then ? ( Jkrn111 ( talk) 13:11, 1 April 2020 (UTC)).
If it's already there, you might as well leave it. It's more precise -- some don't accept the connection between Kaki Ae and Eleman proper, and for them 'Eleman' means only the latter. The name 'Kerema Bay' AFAICT is specific to Usher. — kwami ( talk) 13:14, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
--— kwami ( talk) 12:25, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Hi kwami, wouldn't adding |descendant=
to the template "Infobox language" be a good idea here? "Dialect" looks more than odd... We could also use it for attested languages like
Kawi or
Middle English. –
Austronesier (
talk)
11:50, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, you're right. I forgot about that param. Won't work if there's more than one, but better when listing the entire family together. — kwami ( talk) 11:54, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Those aren't available yet. Probably easier just to create a new info box, with ancestors and descendents. — kwami ( talk) 12:11, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
If the articles become developed enough, we might want a proto-lang info box. As of now few of them have are, though -- even Uralic and Afrasiatic only have two branch articles apiece. — kwami ( talk) 12:00, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
|fam1=
Kra–Dai
and |fam2=
Tai
.
Kanguole
12:05, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
|fam1=Proto-Kra–Dai
is clearly wrong, because that is not "the broadest possible widely accepted language family of which the language is a part". That is Kra–Dai.|dia1=Tai languages
is wrong, because Tai is not a "primary dialect" of Proto-Tai. Replacing it is a more difficult issue.
Kanguole
12:30, 5 April 2020 (UTC)What about this [12]? – Austronesier ( talk) 12:15, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
I can try creating a box tomorrow, if neither of you wants to, and we can see how it works. Also, I don't see any need to append 'language' to the article titles, do you? — kwami ( talk) 12:41, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
{{
infobox proto-language}}
.
Kanguole
15:12, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Okay, I've added the new {{ infobox proto-language}} to Proto-Indo-European and some of its children. Proto-Balto-Slavic and Proto-Indo-Iranian illustrate cases with both ancestors and children. Kanguole added a 'family' field that duplicates the 'children' field,, we should probably discuss where we want the fields relative to each other and how we want them worded. Maybe we could call that field 'members' or something. — kwami ( talk) 22:28, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
|family=
, which you had deleted. In {{
infobox language family}}
, |children=
is an alternative to |child1=
... |childN=
, and it would be less confusing to have the same correspondence here.That is true. But the 'family' parameters do something different in our family and language info boxes -- they create a tree, which would be inappropriate here -- so calling it 'family' may also be confusing. 'Members' might be better as an abbreviation for 'family members'. If 'family', 'children' and 'members' are all inappropriate or inaccurate to varying degrees, which is the least confusing? Or would some other term work? — kwami ( talk) 22:42, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
|protolanguage_of=
? |reconstructed_family=
?
Kanguole
22:53, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
|descendent_family=
to match. 'members' is just nonsense.
Kanguole
11:50, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
And do we want the family members to be required? Take Proto-Tocharian, for example, where they're redundant. — kwami ( talk) 22:45, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
There's a syntax error w the listclass param I don't know how to handle. Mentioned on the template talk page. — kwami ( talk) 00:00, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
I changed to your suggested wording. We can see how we like that. Re. the links, yes, that was my intention. These would be nav boxes among the reconstructions. Apart from IE, there aren't many families where there's much to navigate, but that could change. Especially if we link to sections, there's a lot that can be done with Papuan languages.
If we only list children with links, the good is that we don't get a bunch of possibly invalid names that don't go anywhere, and e.g. in Proto-Uto-Aztecan, with the single link to Proto-Nahuan, it's obvious that's what's going on. But if we have most of the children, as e.g. at Proto-Indo-Iranian, then that could cause some confusion. In that case I added Proto-Nuristani even though there's nothing to link to. But if we insist on not listing children unless there's something to link to, maybe that will encourage people to write on them? It should also make it easier to keep track of bogus articles, since crackpots will likely want to include their fantasies in the infoboxes. — kwami ( talk) 10:29, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
Yes, I just added an 'acceptance' param for things like Altaic, to parallel how we treat dubious families. There are other cases, e.g. proto-Finno-Ugric and proto-Tibeto-Burman, which may be the same as their supposed parent.
But, very often when there's disagreement about subgrouping, no-one's ever reconstructed those subgroups. Where they have, then we will usually have sources to be able to say something substantial about the issues involved, or at least to be able to cover the debate. Where there are Ethnologue-type subgroupings based on lexicostatistics or generic similarities without reconstruction, then those we wouldn't list in the infobox. That's why I wanted to specify that the children are protolanguages and not just divisions, and equally that the superior clades are protolanguages and not just replicate the hierarchies of our family articles. — kwami ( talk) 10:54, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
I think Nuristani's been reconstructed, but not sure. Eastern Baltic has as well, I think.
Reasonable reconstruction using the comparative method, with regular sound correspondences. I believe Altaic qualifies, even if many doubt the results are valid. Perhaps Dene-Yeniseian does as well, though if all that's been done is the verbal suffixes, IMO that wouldn't be enough. We can leave it to others to evaluate whether the reconstructions are successful, but not everything needs a box. — kwami ( talk) 11:32, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
Any idea how to handle Proto-Norse? Is it more like Old English than an actual protolang? Same with Common Brittonic, though that seems to be clearer. Both should maybe be removed from the protolang category. — kwami ( talk) 13:13, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
Okay, removed. — kwami ( talk) 04:30, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
![]() |
The Papua New Guinean Barnstar of National Merit | |
Thank you for your many years of tireless work on articles of Papuan languages! Here's something to add to your long list of barnstars. (Although admittedly, this is just for " East New Guinea Highlands languages" and other Papuan languages on the eastern half of the island.) — Sagotreespirit ( talk) 09:56, 20 April 2020 (UTC) | ||
this WikiAward was given to Kwamikagami by — Sagotreespirit ( talk) on 09:56, 20 April 2020 (UTC) |
Thanks! — kwami ( talk) 10:17, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
Maté is a hypercorrection or hyperforeignism. That's referenced. While both are used in English, marketing tends to support the hyperforeignism, but it's no reason that we should. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 22:35, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
All the dictionaries do as well. If you disagree with standard English usage, you're pushing your opinion of what English should be, which is not how WP works. — kwami ( talk) 22:38, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
It's hardly a personal attack to say you should be able to use a dictionary. You should. I checked five standard dictionaries, and they all disagree with you. Calling English orthography "hyperforeignism" doesn't change the fact that it's English orthography. You can campaign to reform it, but until you succeed we need to follow what is. — kwami ( talk) 22:44, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
DICT has nothing do to with this. Perhaps you should read that as well. — kwami ( talk) 22:44, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
It's one thing to argue about which form is better supported by COMMON or some other WP naming convention, but it's a bit much to actually censor English to match its source languages, essentially a form of hypercorrection (like people who pronounce Paris "puh-REE"), and to not even allow common forms that readers will come across (and by your admission, if it's preferred by both marketers and dictionaries, probably the most common form). — kwami ( talk) 22:55, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Punjabi script. Since you had some involvement with the Punjabi script redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Tsla1337 ( talk) 15:58, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
Why are you adding unsourced, original research? ― Justin (koavf)❤ T☮ C☺ M☯ 23:39, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for replying on the talk page where I invited you. Unfortunately, the expert editor you named there is indefinitely blocked as a suspected sock. Certes ( talk) 09:48, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
Something wrong when the people who most know what they're doing, and are cooperative and work well with others, are so frustrated trying to get anything done here that they feel the need to use socks. — kwami ( talk) 10:26, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
@ Irtapil: Wikipedia does have a problem with driving away new editors who end up feeling that trying to make improvements is futile. A serious problem. I'm part of it myself, I fear. The project can't succeed without new blood.
'COI' is 'conflict of interest'. E.g., a politician or company editing their WP biography to say that they're the greatest ever. Usually it's more subtle than that, but it can be a real problem.
I don't know the Urdu sock.
'TPS' is just an abbreviation for the name of a template that explains why someone's commenting on a discussion they're not part of. It's not an acronym you need to know.
'NPOV' means 'neutral point of view'. It's one of the basic principles of WP. You're supposed to avoid a non-neutral POV, but no-one abbreviates it "NNPOV". Maybe they figure the two N's cancel each other out? Anyway, a POV-pusher is someone pushing a particular POV, which by implication is a non-NPOV. Someone repeatedly editing the Urdu articles to claim that Urdu is unrelated to Hindi would be a POV-pusher.
There are WP:Wikipedia abbreviations and WP:Glossary to answer your questions, but they're kinda overkill. I've been here years, and I don't know a fraction of them. — kwami ( talk) 03:46, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
Hi kwami, I have come across this one here [13]. I'll gladly finish this, but do you remember the source article where the material came from (in case it's actually relevant for cleanup)? – Austronesier ( talk) 08:16, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
@ Austronesier: sure, here's my edit in the source article. — kwami ( talk) 08:20, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
Hi, sorry for bothering you again. A while ago (almost a year, actually) I asked you for the IPA pronunciation and respell of Onychopterella. Now I need the same for Roman Dacia, and I was wondering if you could help me again. By the way, is there a page where I can request these things in the future? Thanks in advance. Super Ψ Dro 07:37, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
Lexico (the OED online) [14] has /ˈdeɪʃə/ as the primary pronunciation. The print OED has the same for Dacian, and doesn't have a variant with /s/. Webster's [15] has the same as the print OED. I'd ignore the variants with /i/ -- I don't know if Lexico has a real person pronouncing it, but Webster's certainly doesn't.
This agrees with what we have at the article Dacia,, I just removed the optional 'i' there.
In the future, you might check with the humanities reference desk or with the linguistic wikiproject, but I certainly don't mind a word or two every few months! — kwami ( talk) 09:00, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
Hi Kwamikagami,
I hope you are well. I am getting various LGBT-related articles ready for Pride month, including the article for the Equality Act. There is a map on there that needs a state updated. Virginia has passed the Virginia Values Act and the Governor signed the legislation into law which prohibits discrimination on the basis of gender identity and sexual orientation in all areas. [1] The map is File:LGBT anti-discrimination law in the United States by state.svg . Virginia needs to be dark purple.
Thank you,
- TenorTwelve ( talk) 06:49, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
No prob. — kwami ( talk) 22:32, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
Awesome. Thanks! (and Happy Pride Month!) - TenorTwelve ( talk) 09:19, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
Hi Kwamikagami,
I've been wondering how to make a map for/on Wikipedia/Wikimedia. You might not need to personally teach me but I was wondering if you could direct me towards some resources on this? I've tried looking for resources but have found almost nothing and it almost seems like a secret knowledge of sorts. Do I need to download software for this? Thanks, - TenorTwelve ( talk) 08:09, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
Hi Kwamikagami, your merge of the set index article Rhexenor (mythology) into the disambiguation page Rhexenor, needs to be undone. Thanks. Paul August ☎ 14:59, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Why? — kwami ( talk) 20:51, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Your recent page moves are out of process and inappropriate. You have been here long enough to know that. If you want an articles to be renamed, request so at WP:RM, not by attempting to game the system. Ə XPLICIT 11:40, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
Your edits were irresponsible. You left redirects to red links, even in templates, that would have been bot-deleted if I hadn't cleaned up after you. And waiting a month for a discussion to correct a typo is a bit ridiculous. — kwami ( talk) 17:39, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
Are you sure your move is correct? The surname is spelt ‘Alokuo’ulu (i.e. with the second mark not being an okina) by the Tongan Parliament. Cheers, Number 5 7
That's just how they write 'okina. They use an apostrophe and their word processor makes it curly, so it's a 6-shape at the beginning of a name but a 9-shape in the middle of a name. If you do a search for <'>, you'll see they're all apostrophes, and they're all 9-shaped in the middle of a name. — kwami ( talk) 23:59, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
Yes. Often people do use apostrophes when they're not typesetting professionally, but in that case you'd just use a straight apostrophe <'> on WP. Normally we fix them all to ʻokina, which you can input as {{okina}}
. —
kwami (
talk)
00:19, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
Seems another user undid your move, which I believe to be correct. I've started a requested move discussion at Talk:Kauai#Requested move 5 July 2020. Hope you are able to participate in the discussion. Skyerise ( talk) 19:43, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
Not sure what your preferred method of talk page usage is. I replied on mine. Let me know if you'd prefer something else. I vaguely remember that I used to use some kind of notifying template but that was a while ago and I forget what it was... Skyerise ( talk) 20:35, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
Is your changing of the straight apostrophe in place of the ayin character related to some discussion affecting all relevant articles? If not, please discuss first as the articles are simply following the MoS guidelines: "The characters representing the ayin (ع) and the hamza (ء) are not omitted (except when at the start of a word) in the basic form, both represented by the straight apostrophe (')". The proper transliteration is simply added, or should be added, next to the Arabic name in the introductory sentence of the given article, e.g. Ma'an ( Arabic: مَعان, romanized: Maʿān). — Al Ameer ( talk) 04:30, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
@ Al Ameer son: That MOS guideline might be new, or at least I don't recall ever seeing it. There has long been consensual use of distinct letters for ayin and hamza. That dates back to the founding of Wikipedia -- you can still find the old ASCII convention of <`> as an for ayin. Personally, I take exception to intentionally introducing errors into articles or article titles. Basically, we're saying that the Arabic language isn't important enough to represent accurately. Why is it that it would be culturally insensitive, if not actually racist, to mistranscribe Native American or Hawaiian names, but okay to mistranscribe Arabic names? — kwami ( talk) 04:34, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
Dear Friend, I am so sorry that I let you down, per assisting with the "curly apostrophe" project. I had no difficulty in changing apostrophes in the body of the article, but every time I tried to do a page move, the system would not accept the change, and continued to show a curly. This problem occurred only on my Ipad. When I tried to make the move changes on my much, much older desk computer, it seemed to work just fine. However, due to physical problems, I cannot sit at the desk computer for any useful length of time. This is not the first time I have had Ipad vs desk computer problems of this type. And I am too old and out of date on computer skills to figure it out. I got frustrated, and decided to try again in a few days, only to discover that it might be too late.
In the past, I have successfully worked on other editor's lists, to good effect. I am so sorry to let you down. Please do not judge others who offer to help you, on the basis of my failure. I should have contacted you right away, when I realized that I didn't possess the ability to help you because of my hardware problems.
In case you can still use my help, I have posted a query at WP:RM/TR, and will also do so at the Village Pump technical page.
Once again, my sincerely apologies, Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 22:57, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
Yes, I am very pleased to do the texts, thank you! I am off to do the letter (R, first) etc, and will scan the both the title and article for the curlies. Best wishes, Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 00:20, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
I saw an note on ANI that you may have a list of articles that need the apostrophes changed. I am willing to help, if you have a list that I could work from. As long as my Ipad will support making the changes, I would enjoy doing so. I can't "sit" at my desk computer, but can work, prone, on the Ipad. in the past, I have assisted others in completing similar repetitive tasks. Let me know if I can help. Best, Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 00:23, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
Thanks. I've been doing that for ones that are blocked. But there are problems with some of these titles beyond the curly apostrophe, e.g. being bad a translation from an article on another-language WP, so they should be individually reviewed. — kwami ( talk) 04:47, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
Okay, so far I have "done" the S's( from history in my sandbox), R's, P's and N's. At some point in the P's, I resolved the problem regarding moving the pages, per my device problems, see above discussion.
Of course, I had to try it out, and the "move" worked well, except for the fact that AFTER a page is moved, a box pops up and asks me to "do things" about which I have no clue! I had no desire to mess about with images, but on several articles, I thought it was safe to move a simple stub.
Do you want me to continue to correct Curlies by making "moves" here and there, or will these hit and miss moves make your overall task more difficult? The Curlies in the bodies of the text are no problem...plus it is very enjoyable to copyedit, fix refs, add sections, etc. I also enjoy smoothing-out the prose of ESL editors.
So, should I try to complete the "seemingly simple moves", or will it be easier if I leave them alone?
Thanks, again, for allowing me to work on this project. I am really enjoying it! Now working on the M's....Regards, Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 01:30, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
Please stop immediately with wholesale moving articles from straight apostrophes to curled ones. I asked for an urgent block at WP:ANI. Debresser ( talk) 17:06, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
Same for adding an apostrophe to indicate the Hebrew letter ayin. Which is against WP:HEBREW. Debresser ( talk) 17:07, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
I did, of course. But those are not apostrophes. You speak Hebrew, so do I need to explain the difference? Which BTW was already explained to you at ANI. Pop them into the search window if you don't believe me. — kwami ( talk) 00:59, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
Debresser, in many fonts an ʻokina and a quote mark look the same, but in other fonts they are graphically distinct. Similarly, for Hebrew, an ʼaleph and ʽayin will look like quote marks or apostrophes in many fonts, but not all. In some fonts, Greek alpha and Latin 'a' look the same, but that doesn't make them the same letter.
As for WP.HEBREW, indeed I wasn't aware of that. But I didn't argue with you about reverting my edit either. Though as Vanisaac points out, WP.HEBREW is rather confused, and contradicts itself. In the table, it says that ʼaleph and ʽayin are to be ignored in transcription, as you say, but then it goes on to give multiple examples where they are not ignored, though they're treated as punctuation rather than letters -- so that an actual apostrophe needs to be transcribed as a double quotation mark to keep it distinct from a letter-apostrophe. In modern Ashkenazi Hebrew, ʼaleph and ʽayin are pronounced the same, so it makes sense to transcribe them the same (though they're consonants, not punctuation marks as WP.HEBREW transcribes them). But in Biblical Hebrew they were not, so there's also that consideration. — kwami ( talk) 20:21, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
@ Debresser: They are not pronounced the same in all varieties of Modern Hebrew even today, and were clearly pronounced differently back when the original Hebrew was a mother tongue. But if as you say the apostrophe in Yisra'el is actually that -- a punctuation mark separating two vowels, [jisra.el], and does not represent a glottal stop consonant the way Hawaiian ʻokina does, [jisraʔel] (or maybe there is a [ʔ], but (a) it's ignored in transcription, and (b) vowel sequences are separated by apostrophes to keep them legible, regardless of whether there's a [ʔ] there, so that [aʔel] and [ael] would both be transcribed a'el) -- then I completely misunderstood that and IMO it needs to be clearly stated at HEBREW. — kwami ( talk) 21:07, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
HEBREW says, Between a shva and a vowel sound or between nikud and a vowel sound, an apostrophe will be used to indicate a short stop. Thus: mal'akh.
What is a "short stop" if not the consonant ʼaleph? That does seem to contradict the table, but again the whole presentation is rather confused. — kwami ( talk) 21:24, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
Okay, I'm going to take a stab at clarifying HEBREW so people like me won't get confused in the future. — kwami ( talk) 07:59, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
@ Debresser: so in the example mal'akh (מַלְאָךְ), the apostrophe indicates that it's syllabified mal-akh instead of ma-lakh?
Re. alef for glottal stop being rare, I suppose that depends on which reading tradition you're used to. Back when Hebrew was a spoken language (Biblical Hebrew in that sense, as the Hebrew spoken by the people who wrote most of the Hebrew portions of the OT), it was almost always a glottal stop. I've been working on a bit of the Song of Songs, and in 8 lines alef appears 17 times. In 13 of those it indicates a simple glottal stop, in 2 a geminate glottal stop, and in 2 a long o vowel.
In modern colloquial written Hebrew, in a para from Etgar Keret, alef occurs 17 times in word-medial position, and ayin 8 times. These correspond to 21 glottal stops in careful speech, or 75% of alefs, in the standard accent where ayin is glottal stop rather than an pharyngeal, though my understanding is that they tend to be elided when not speaking formally. — kwami ( talk) 05:40, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
@ Debresser: Glottal stop is a catch in the throat that can be pretty obvious when you hear it, but people can be rather sloppy distinguishing it from hiatus when explaining things verbally. There's a YouTube video on Hawaiian, v = VEQw3_JQTK8, that at about 1m contrasts pau with two vowels in hiatus from paʻu with the same vowels separated by a glottal stop.
If there's a bit of silence between two vowels due to a catch in the throat, you're making a glottal stop, while if they run smoothly into each other, you're not -- they're in hiatus. There are supposedly rules in Dutch for when you make a glottal stop between certain vowels and when you don't, but I don't know how reliable or consistent they are. I don't know if it makes any difference in Hebrew. In English, Hawaii is pronounced without glottal stop by most speakers, but with a glottal stop between the two i's, Hawaiʻi, by Hawaiians (including English-speaking Hawaiians) -- but either way the a and the first i are in hiatus. Japanese and Swahili are notable for all possible sequences of vowels occurring in hiatus. For example, in Japanese ao 'blue' (noun) and aoi 'blue' (adj), the vowels run smoothly into each other -- they're kept distinct but there's no catch in the throat between them. I'm sure you can find sound files of that word online. Pronouncing them with a glottal stop would be very wrong. Again, I don't know if it matters in Hebrew -- if a glottal stop is always possible between vowels, but not required, then it's rather moot whether the apostrophe transcribes glottal stop or hiatus. — kwami ( talk) 08:50, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
Does mal'akh also have a glottal stop, then?
Re two identical vowels, there are languages that clearly have double vowels in hiatus. (There's a dip in intensity between the vowels, what you might hear as a syllable break, but no stop or silence.) Other languages clearly have a long vowel instead, e.g. when two words come together, one ending in [a] and the other beginning in [a], the result is a long [aː]. In some cases there's even a 3-way distinction of short [a], long [aː] and double [aa]. I believe Hawaiian is one. But in many languages the situation is ambiguous between long [aː] and double [aa], or authorities make conflicting claims, or may describe what they believe the underlying situation is rather than the pronunciation at the surface. — kwami ( talk) 01:21, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
Alef was originally a glottal stop, not a vowel, with any associated vowel unwritten. I think the matres lectionis uses came in pretty early, certainly in biblical times, though I thought the matres were originally he, waw and yod, not alef and ayin, which became matres much later? I don't recall. AFAIK alef and ayin are silent in Ashkenazi Hebrew, in orthography they're just carriers for the niqqud, but I don't know about Israeli.
Re. בראשית, you mean it's b, schwa, glottal stop, r? Maybe because the ב is a prefix? It's presumably simply coincidence that there happens to be an alef later in the word. The dictionary just has bereshit or breshit, though, no glottal stop.
In Dutch, orthographic aa is one sound, but what happens when you put a word ending in a and a word beginning with a together, maybe adjective and noun? Do they merge into a single sound? If they stay distinct, they might be separated by a glottal stop or might not. That's parallel to the question here. — kwami ( talk) 21:04, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
In case you received a ping and are wondering what this is about, please take a look at what the page looked like before my edits. Because you didn't use "subst:", there was no signature or record of the time and date of closure of that RM. — BarrelProof ( talk) 18:04, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
Ah, thanks. — kwami ( talk) 19:04, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
Unfortunately, my source is currently not available due to technical issues. The issue is quite complicated because many sources are simply wrong. Even a German source firstly said the maximum penalty would be seven years, but they corrected their article after a few hours.
https://www.queer.de/detail.php?article_id=36601
„In einer vorherigen Version hatte es geheißen, dass die Maximalstrafe sieben Jahre Haft sind. Tatsächlich kann nach der dritten Verurteilung lebenslang verhängt werden. Wir haben den Fehler korrigiert.“
Sudans LGBT Organisation Bedayaa stated every change of Article 148. Currently it is not available as I said, but I will hand you over the link as soon as possible.
It is clearly stated, that they just eliminated the word „death“ at the third paragraph of Article 148 (2c). So the maximum penalty after a third offense is still life imprisonment. The second offense is to be punished with seven years in jail now.
Other sources:
I guess Reuters is a good and reasonable source:
„The punishments have been reduced to prison terms, ranging from five years to life.“
-- Böses Buschwerk123 ( talk) 05:08, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
„Under Sudan's old sodomy law, gay men faced 100 lashes for the first offense, five years in jail for the second and the death penalty the third time around. The punishments have been reduced to prison terms, ranging from five years to life.“
I think the statement of Bedayaa claimed, that they eliminated the five years max penalty of the second paragraph. Because of this, now there are 7 seven years jail.
I mean now we got a few reasonable sources. I think it is enough, don’t you think so? 👀
-- Böses Buschwerk123 ( talk) 05:21, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
You did a great job with your last editing. 👌🏽 We have to wait now until we get more reliable sources. :) Böses Buschwerk123 ( talk) 09:22, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
(For page-stalkers, Bedayaa got back to me and said that Böses's interpretation is correct, that the penalties are <=5yrs, <=7yrs, and life, with no room for lenience in a 3rd conviction, though no cases of the last are known. — kwami ( talk) 05:40, 22 July 2020 (UTC))
The user that replied to you on Talk:Phoenician alphabet (I don't want to name or ping him) has been displaying extremely aggressive, toxic and mocking behaviour against every single person who he disagrees with ever since the discussion about this topic started on Talk:Paleo-Hebrew_alphabet#Redirection/merge_to_Phoenician_alphabet (I don't know if you lurked there before, if not, brace yourself). He is not contributive to the discussion at all and only attacks contributive users by making passive agressive remarks and telling people to "go and read", even outright refusing to provide evidence. I fear in the end nothing about the pages can be improved because "no concensus has been reached", because of a toxic user that keeps saying no to everything. Maybe something needs to be done about it at some point. Glennznl ( talk) 00:18, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
@ Glennznl: You can make a formal move request, see what evidence people bring to that. Personally, I'm opposed to changing the names of peoples and languages every other year out of a patronizing desire to protect the ignorant natives, so that in the end no-one knows who they are because they go by too many names to keep track of (funny, no-one seems to propose rectifying the name of the Germans, Basques, Greeks, Albanians, Finns, Armenians, Egyptians, Indians, Tibetans, Chinese or Koreans), but if a name is well established in English we should go by that.
BTW, you don't need to ping me on my own talk page, though you might want to do so on yours if you answer there, in case I'm not watching it. — kwami ( talk) 10:30, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
@ Glennznl: A lot of Eskimo call themselves 'Eskimo' because they're not Inuit (that's only ever worked in Canada), and a lot of Bushmen call themselves 'Bushmen' because 'San' is an ethnic slur. (There's no such thing as a Khoisan.) In fact, the idea that the name 'Bushman' is somehow racist is itself a judgement that their culture is inferior, and that it would be 'racist' to call them what they are. — kwami ( talk) 19:40, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
I am continuing to work on the list provided. Once I got over being nervous about moving article names, I started moving them, and also began going back through the list again...both to move the ones I missed, and to backcheck my work. I will post a progress report soon, in an hour or so.
This is a very rewarding editing task, and I thank you for allowing me to help you. After the basic housekeeping work of converting/fixing the curlies, I have filled in bare refs, fixed deadlinks...then the "fun" starts, with copyediting, etc., which I enjoy.
Today, while going back through previously visited articles, in order to "move", I find that you have arrived before me. I want to let you know that I am still on the job, despite my slowness. Thanks again, Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 05:52, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
Okay, the list was arranged thus: S, R, P, N, M, J, I, and G. I started " moving" somewhere in the P's, and certainly by the Ns. I have started going through from the beginning, to move the ones I missed. The only section I have not touched at all as of yet is the G section. If you do the moves ahead of me, I will still care for the curlies in the text, as well as the other editing. Hope this meets with your approval. Thanks, Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 06:14, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
I have completed the tasks for the list of articles. I filed only one article at RM, as you had already filed the others that I was tracking. Are there any more to be done? Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 20:37, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
If you know Arabic script, there are a bunch that have apostrophes, quote marks or back-ticks (`) that need to be corrected to proper ʽayin or hamza. — kwami ( talk) 20:40, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Sen:esepera. The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 July 30#Sen:esepera until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion.
Soumya-8974
talk
contribs
subpages
07:47, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
Hello, I have questions about your replacement of all straight apostrophes in the Guarani language article.
Mauricio Maluff ( talk) 2020-07-21T18:04:54
@ Mauricio Maluff: There's no problem with editors using ASCII. It can always be cleaned up by others. The problem with using a hamza directly is that it's difficult to distinguish visually from a curly apostrophe, making manual clean up difficult. A bot would distinguish them, but it can be difficult to visually verify what the bot is doing.
No WP agreement on Guarani that I know of, but we do have agreement for other languages with glottal stop such as Hawaiian and several Canadian and Mexican languages. If the saltillo would be best, that's fine, but {{ saltillo}} should be used rather than ASCII. But if the the straight apostrophe we see is just an ASCII substitute for ease of typing, not intended as a saltillo and not used in professional publication, then I wouldn't think that's something we'd want to emulate. Could be that Guarani doesn't have an official orthographic convention for this. Probably worth discussing to see what the evidence is. — kwami ( talk) 18:47, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
I pondering how these templates might be used and whether or not they are needed. MOS:APOSTROPHE says we should use {{ hamza}} and {{ ayin}}, which would make {{ lhr}} redundant. I like the idea of using the transliterated character name—rather than the Unicode character name—because it makes it easy to change which Unicode character we use. It also makes it easy to verify that the correct character is being used, for folks familiar with the language but not with Unicode. Presumably we'd want to do the same thing and use {{ aleph}} rather than {{ rhr}}? Glottal stops in different languages are encoded differently, so e.g. {{ okina}} wouldn't use either of these characters. Are there other languages you were thinking of that have glottal stops where we'd want to make more templates? Or was there some other rationale for making lhr and rhr? -- Beland ( talk) 16:37, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
Regarding [ this edit]: do you mean that пятка is transliterated as p'atka? In some systems (e. g. USSR AS 1951–1957) it is indeed so. But usually the apostrophe or prime is used only for ь, whereas я and ю are transliterated identically regardless of their function: pyatka (BGN/PCGN), pjatka (UNGEGN), pi͡atka (ALA/LC)... Burzuchius ( talk) 20:26, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
Your page move was undiscussed and unexplained; I have reverted. Please use WP:RM. Giant Snowman 10:23, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
The page violated the MOS. We don't use curly apostrophes on WP, and his name does not contain a punctuation mark but an 'okina. — kwami ( talk) 12:48, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
Hi Kwami. Can you change " Show Dog-Universal Music" to "Show Dog Nashville"? 2402:1980:82F6:AB87:F6EC:E2E9:4948:D559 ( talk) 07:41, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
Could I ask why? According to the article, it's at the correct name. — kwami ( talk) 07:47, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
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The Original Barnstar | |
Because you do an incredible amount of good work, and I am more or less in awe at how much you know. Also, I think you do not have enough barnstars. ^_^ Double sharp ( talk) 05:06, 22 August 2020 (UTC) |
Do you by any chance remember which source you used here, at Shipibo language#Dialects? It's not listed in the article's bibliography, so the citation is nearly useless without more info. Glades12 ( talk) 10:40, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
That's the claim that it's a dialect, ref at at Panoan languages, [16]. 'No data' from Loukotka (1968) on same page. — kwami ( talk) 11:24, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
Spelled "Shipinawa", as a Shipibo dialect, on p. 14. Listed as an ethnonym 'purported' to be a Panoan lang on p. 109, same under the spelling "Chipinawa" on p. 15. (Identity of the two stated again on p. 77 and 89.) Just do a search for "ipin".
That should be enough, but the other ref is Loukotka, Čestmír (1968) Classification of South American Indian languages, UCLA. — kwami ( talk) 22:51, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
I, the creator of these two pages, came to say thank you just because you expanded and cited them. Blockman9000 ( talk) 15:05, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
You clearly have a bug in your ear about a whole host of technical issues that are WAY beyond Wikipedia's remit. I would suggest hunting down all of these feloniously erroneous scientists and lecturing them soundly on exactly how wrong they are. Perhaps you could corral them into an isolated manor ala "And Then There Were None" and pick them off one by one until they agree to publish retractions in reliable sources. Then, with those reliable soures, maybe Wikipedia could do something about it. Serendi pod ous 14:13, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
I've tried to change the article to cover the POV rather than just that editorial, which IMO isn't in itself notable. The POV certainly is, and IMO deserves more coverage on WP. — kwami ( talk) 05:41, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
A definition published the next year by some of the same authors is actually functional, so I changed to that one. It still doesn't support Stern's list of 100+ Solar planets, but then no definition does. — kwami ( talk) 05:01, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
Hi a few weeks ago you moved a page I created a while back, but as far as I can see, the title you moved it to is the same one as I gave it, Les Dialogues d'Evhémère. Can I ask what that was about? All the best Mccapra ( talk) 10:26, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, you used a curly apostrophe, which we don't use on WP. — kwami ( talk) 12:16, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
(Answering here) - the vaccine strategies are always being reevaluated, but there is currently no plan to drop PV3 from the vaccine prior to the cessation of all vaccination. I suspect that there will be hesitance to make any change regarding PV3 after the PV2 removal went so badly. It cuts both ways. oPV3 is a lot less prone to reversion mutations, so cVDPV3 outbreaks are a lot less common, and because it does not have the high asymptomatic rate of cVDPV2, when it happens it is easier to find and quash. This means that it should be easier to remove from the vaccine, but also that removing it is less of a priority. Regarding your other question, yes, if your mopup successfully achieves enough vaccination to eliminate a cVDPV outbreak in a country, it is gone from that country, but there are two problems. First, viruses do not respect borders, neither international borders not the limits set for the mop-up vaccination campaign, and there is a finite chance it will spread beyond the mopup cordon. Secondly, there is always going to be spillover of the vaccine at the edges of the mopup area, for example when they tried mopping up the latest cVDPV in Pakistan, they started picking up the oPV2 in Afghanistan, even though it had not been administered there. That is a huge problem, because this spillover is now running through an entirely unvaccinated population, and you will likely get fresh cVDPV strains arising. Just last year (or was it two years ago), spillover of oVP2 used in Congo caused numerous new cVDPV2s in Angola. Agricolae ( talk) 19:41, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
Very interesting. Thank you! — kwami ( talk) 02:15, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
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The Special Barnstar
For creating the Tyap language article. Thanks! Kambai Akau ( talk) 20:22, 14 September 2020 (UTC) |
Thanks! — kwami ( talk) 02:16, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
The article Manenguba languages has recently been extended quite a bit and is no longer a stub. Since you are one of the contributors, would you care to assess it in its present state, or suggest improvements? Since I wrote most of it, I don't think I can assess it myself. Kanjuzi ( talk) 12:13, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
Okay, I have finished, except for three articles:
I saw that you were part of a discussion at the Science Ref Desk, regarding "Safe displays of highly radioactive isotopes". My understanding is that, of course, radioactive materials occur naturally, are mined and then changed by humans to produce more powerful substances. Can you direct me to articles that outline the history of the discovery of the basic substances? I can remember the names of radium, uranium and plutonium. Are these naturally-occurring radioactive ores? Are there others? Thanks! Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 01:55, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
Thorium and uranium, actually. Answered on your talk page. — kwami ( talk) 00:16, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
A tag has been placed on File:Historical expanse of Ainu.png requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section F2 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a missing or corrupt image or an empty image description page for a Commons-hosted image.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. CptViraj ( talk) 12:45, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
I have done the move request for you, if you have any more requests I’ll be happy to help. Please do any post move cleanup if necessary. Cheers Megan☺️ Talk to the monster 14:20, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
Thanks! — kwami ( talk) 15:48, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
Hello there,
In 2018 I changed the final vowel of the pronunciation transcription in Daphne to /i/ from /iː/ on the basis that I, a northern British English speaker, pronounce it with [ɪ]. I’m backed up in my assertion that this is the happY vowel by the Longman Pronunciation Dictionary (ˈdæf ni).
You reverted my change earlier this year with the comment "rv bad IPA fix". Can you explain what I'm missing here? Why is the happY vowel not appropriate in the WP transcription scheme here? (Ordinarily I'd just have re-made my change assuming it was a troll/someone confused about the IPA, but I recognize your name from previous pronunciation discussions.)
Daphne Preston-Kendal ( talk) 07:43, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
Hi @ Daphne Preston-Kendal:. I was going by the OED, by the fact that Greek eta is normally pronounced /i:/, and also assumed that you might not know the difference (lots of editors don't). But I see that not only does Longman have /i/, but so does Lexico, which is based on the OED. Plus I would expect you to know how to pronounce your own name! I'll go ahead and change it back, so it's clear from the article history that we're in agreement. — kwami ( talk) 08:14, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
Kagami-san, have you seen zh:小行星列表/1-1000? I think you might like the massive calquing effort that obviously went into the seemingly standard names. ^_^ Double sharp ( talk) 11:36, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
It is. I wonder if someone's making all that up for WP, or if they're actually used? — kwami ( talk) 01:22, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
Obviously! — kwami ( talk) 03:08, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
What did you do to the consonant section of the Taa language? Why did I see symbols that looked like this [ˬd̪̥ʰ] rather than this [d̪̥ʰ]? Are they voiced? Or devoiced? I have since then reverted your edit. Fdom5997 ( talk) 05:33, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
Jeez man, calm down.I used Celestia to take that picture. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Benjamin Borg ( talk • contribs) 16:32, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
Hi,
you merged today the article Planetary object with Geophysical definition of 'planet'.
I find the merger a bit sudden, dont you think it deserves a discussion.
For example if merging, wouldnt the Planet article be better since it has a subsection regarding and referencing planetary mass objects.
I personally think it deserves an own article. Nsae Comp ( talk) 13:10, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
I would possibly proofread a lot or all of the phonological charts/information that you have given on various language pages. I just saw that you forgot a /j/ glide consonant for the Akan language. I just fixed it, and added a source provided. Also, is there a way that I can view all of the language pages that you provided information on? Fdom5997 ( talk) 21:37, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, for some reason I tried that, and it did not work. It wasn't showing any results. Fdom5997 ( talk) 02:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
Hello. Please can you help fix the links to new dab Koli language? It's not obvious to the layman whether they mean Kachi Koli language or something else. Thanks, Certes ( talk) 15:42, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for your recent contributions to one of Wikipedia's articles related to the solar system. Given the interest you've expressed by your edits, have you considered joining WikiProject Solar System? We are a group of editors dedicated to improving the overall coverage of the solar system on Wikipedia. If you would like to join, simply add your name to the list of participants. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask at the project talk page. We look forward to working with you in the future! -- Soumya-8974 talk contribs subpages 17:31, 24 October 2020 (UTC) -- Soumya-8974 talk contribs subpages 17:41, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
Just found this list today, sorry...happy to work, sorry for the delay Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 04:46, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
Hey, no worries. No rush. — kwami ( talk) 04:48, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
hey Concerning the edits and updates on the page Template:Same-sex marriage opinion polls worldwide
I noticed that these same updates were not done on the following: Template:Same-sex marriage opinion polls Asia Template:Same-sex marriage opinion polls Europe Template:Same-sex marriage opinion polls Americas and Template:Same-sex marriage opinion polls Oceania
there is a big discrepancy in the numbers between a country in the worldwide pafe and americas for example. would you be kind and take care of it when you have time sorry to ask i'm just so uch busy now with studies thank you Agaywithnorights ( talk) 01:54, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
Hi, I notice that you've been adding pronunciations to quite a few articles on my watchlist. They should be sourced. E.g. /strɛpˈtɒfɪtə/; in careful speech I say /ˈstrɛptoʊfɪtə/ (British English). Peter coxhead ( talk) 08:54, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
Where did you get your username? It's a really lovely name :) 49.144.193.13 ( talk) 10:42, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
The name Kwami is an Ashanti name for a man born on a Saturday. 鏡 Kagami is a Japanese pun on my surname.Double sharp ( talk) 11:57, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
"Kagami" also has the advantage of being a rather uncommon Japanese name, which is nice given that my actual name is so tediously common, though it looks like the cartoon character indeed has the same name (same 鏡 on WP-ja). Can't tell if there's any Ashanti connection to the kwamis, though. — kwami ( talk) 05:44, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
"-sama" is overly formal. If you must use it, I think the appropriate form would be "Kisama", but my friends call me "Baka". — kwami ( talk) 22:49, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
By the way, Origin of Hangul seems to have gotten a nationalist (and inconsistent) twist this year. I'd correct it, but you are surely much more knowledgeable. -- Macrakis ( talk) 23:17, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
Since you have previously updated a related article, you might be interested in knowing there is a discussion regarding the Tahquitz (disambiguation) page. The discussion is at Talk:Tahquitz (disambiguation). OvertAnalyzer ( talk) 16:06, 25 November 2020 (UTC) Thanks! — kwami ( talk) 18:59, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Re the discussion on Talk:Magnetic-core memory, what is the right place to discuss MOS:HYPHEN? It doesn't point to a main article, and the MOS FAQ and MOS extended FAQ don't mention hyphens. I've found a few discussions scattered through the MOS archives dating to 2011 or so, but it's not clear how to pick up the discussion. Thanks, -- Macrakis ( talk) 23:04, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
Certainly refer to them. Could they be copied to Talk:MOS:HYPHEN, even though it's a redirect? Or would that be even more obscure? — kwami ( talk) 23:23, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
I assume you know this, but just in case I thought I should note that (for those who make the distinction) "magnetic core memory" and "magnetic-core memory" are pronounced differently, so it's not an arbitrary convention. — kwami ( talk) 03:42, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
I know you understand the rule, but not everyone is aware that it reflects a spoken difference. (Someone commented recently that it doesn't matter because there's no difference in pronunciation.)
There is a tendency for common phrases to not be hyphenated, just as "high school" is written as two words despite being pronounced as one. But with more technical language, where there's a greater chance of misunderstanding, you see more hyphens. As an encyclopedia, I think WP should err on the side of precision. — kwami ( talk) 18:56, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
Why would you think "foreign policy" is a single word? "Ice cream" is pronounced (and sometimes written) as one word, "foreign policy" as two.
The differences don't need to be exaggerated. Any child can distinguish them. The problem is that English doesn't have a complete or consistent way to write prosody, so we don't learn how to do it well.
Actual practice, sure, but we don't want random differences based on contradictory conventions in different sources. The sources are internally consistent (at least if they're edited well), so why would an encyclopedia be intentionally inconsistent? — kwami ( talk) 23:39, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
But when you make it attributive, it *is* pronounced as a single word. That's the reason for hyphenating -- it's pronounced like a hyphenated lexical word, so the same orthographic convention is used.
As for it not being a common convention any more, that's a discussion for changing the MOS. Regardless, we should follow the MOS, whatever we decide there, for orthographic conventions like this, so that we're consistent across WP, just as any profesional publication would try to be internally consistent. — kwami ( talk) 20:40, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
I do, assuming I'm not misinterpreting any of them.
Most WP conventions are only sporadically applied, like overlinking or curly quotes. I did a search for articles with curly quotes or the ASCII ` convention in their titles, and got over 1,000 hits. — kwami ( talk) 21:59, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
Just yesterday I came across an attributive phrase written as a single word but not hyphenated, equivalent to "heavymetal lyrics". Wish I'd written it down. — kwami ( talk) 19:42, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
Hello! Your submission of
Cistercian numerals at the
Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at
your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know!
Yoninah (
talk)
18:49, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
What's left? Refs weren't duplicated when a para was split -- anything else? — kwami ( talk) 23:15, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
Hi, i've adapted one of the pama-nyungan maps for a forthcoming publication and need to provide citation info for the publisher. are they your original work (and if so do we cite Kwamikagami under a CC license?) Happy to show you what it looks like but effectively just the map of the continent with Yolŋu, Arandic & Thura-Yura highliighted within PN. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jishphil ( talk • contribs) 20:04, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
I have nominated Jupiter for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 00:06, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
Hi. Could you take a look at this? Jumped from 23 million to 45-50 million. [17] It does not even match with the total population of that specific ethnic group. Cheers! -- Wario-Man ( talk) 04:44, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
@ Wario-Man: Yeah, falsified data. Could you check that nothing worthwhile got caught up in the revert? — kwami ( talk) 04:53, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
I just checked Ethn, and they haven't changed their numbers. (14M + 9M.) If Qashqai is included in the article, then it should be included in the pop stats. 05:04, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
Irrelevant. If we have Qashqai in the article, then the pop figure needs to reflect that. If we have a map showing it in country A, we can't say it's in county B. We need to be consistent. — kwami ( talk) 05:18, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
Ethnicity is also irrelevant. People of different ethnicities speak Arabic and French, but we don't call them different languages because of that. — kwami ( talk) 05:29, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
On 27 December 2020, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Cistercian numerals, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the Cistercian monastic order created an early competitor to Hindu–Arabic numerals with which they wrote years as a single character? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Cistercian numerals. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page ( here's how, Cistercian numerals), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (ie, 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
Cwmhiraeth ( talk) 00:02, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
Hey, just wanted to say I thoroughly enjoyed the article about Cistercian numerals. Very interesting! Yakikaki ( talk) 09:04, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
Glad to hear it! — kwami ( talk) 22:35, 27 December 2020 (UTC)