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Russo-Ukrainian War → Russia-Ukraine War – The previous title was proposed by a sockpuppet and approved with four votes in the summer of 2020 ( see discussion), but the name "Russo-Ukrainian War" is not in use today. We should change the article title to Russia-Ukraine War, which is the WP:COMMONNAME, and which would be consistent with the names of similar articles.
Wikipedia article title policy generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources) as such names will usually best fit the five criteria
that guide article title discussions. Below is a list of independent, reliable English-language sources which show an overwhelming preference for "Russia-Ukraine War":
Furthermore, within the conflicts of List of wars: 2003–present that feature two parties to the conflict in their title, only 8 are in adjectival form, [3] whereas 15 articles are in proper noun form. [4] We should make the current title WP:CONSISTENT with the majority of other articles titles by preferring "Russia-Ukraine War" over "Russo-Ukrainian War". Pilaz ( talk) 15:28, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
*Support per extremely well sourced and researched nomination. Although the large majority of sources do indeed support the nomination, there is a considerable minority of sources that support the existing main title header form. Ultimately, since this is the header of a Wikipedia article, the deciding factor is the nomination's final argument of
WP:CONSISTENT. The nominated form is the one that predominates in Wikipedia headers and the inconsistent forms are the ones that should be moved to reflect consistency. —
Roman Spinner
(talk •
contribs)
22:08, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
"Russian-Ukrainian war"
which will exclude many mentions like
Russian-Ukrainian economic war, maybe a searching for Russian-Ukrainian war OR conflict
would be more accurate (same as "Russian-Ukrainian" war OR conflict) --
Nilsol2 (
talk)
03:37, 9 March 2022 (UTC)familiar with, although not necessarily an expert in, the subject areaover than the current title. Both titles are precise enough to identify the topic, and are almost equally concise. As a result, applying the WP:CRITERIA leads me to affirmatively support the current title over the proposed title. — Mhawk10 ( talk) 18:12, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
References
All of them have supplied military systems to Ukraine according to Wikipedia map: /info/en/?search=2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#/media/File:Countries_supplying_military_equipment_to_Ukraine_during_the_2022_Russian_invasion.svg
For countries supporting Ukraine during the 2022 invasion, see 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine. For details of recent support we are deferring to articles on recent events rather than having this article being swamped by recent events that would tend to obscure the long-term events per WP:RECENT. If you are referring to earlier support, the body of the article should reflect the infobox per WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE. Please ensure that the body does indeed reflect any proposed change to the infobox for earlier support and edit accordingly. Cinderella157 ( talk) 03:06, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
For Ukraine, please change from: 4,619 killed 9,700–10,700 wounded 70 missing 2,768 captured 9,268 joined Russian forces after annexation 300+ T-64 tanks
To:
4,619 killed 9,700–10,700 wounded 70 missing 2,768 captured 9,268 joined Russian forces after annexation 1,041 tanks and other combat armored vehicles 98 Aircraft (3 Mil-25 helicopters) 118 UAV (5 Bayraktar TB-2 drones) 113 multiple rocket launchers 389 field artillery pieces and mortars 843 military motor vehicles
For Russia, you can check in the source.
I have been noting that a lot of western sources have not shown once destroyed Ukrainian equipment but have shown a lot of destroyed Russian equipment so far. Which makes the war look one side, and makes me ask why they need any help? Now it is hard to tell which equipment is Russian and which is Ukrainian as they both have some equipment form their Soviet Union days, but it makes it hard to get reliable data when both sides are using propaganda. Are we sure that any of our data is right, when it comes to lose? Hell are we sure that out map is right. So far, I can tell it better than some of the source that I know are propaganda, but are we sure? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.9.146.246 ( talk) 03:45, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
PGSINK ( talk) 10:41, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
Is there any evidence of Russian warships having been sunk?
Have any Russian or Belarus embassies been attacked? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 07:15, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
At least 20,000 foreign nationals from at least 52 countries have enlisted in the Ukrainian army in support of Ukraine to defend democracy. A recruitment website was set up since 05/03/2022. In response, Russia intends to send Chechens and Syrians (veterans from the Syrian civil war) to Ukraine. In effect, the Russo-Ukrainian War has technically turned into the Third World War (even if it is only contained in Ukraine). [3] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 06:54, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
Additionally, there is mention that the Polish-owned MiG fighter jets will probably be sent to Ukraine via Germany. [4]
A Ukrainian Foreign Legion has been set up and is currently in Ukraine. [5] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 07:34, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
Is Vladimir Putin preparing russia for nuclear war? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 08:29, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
I'd like to propose adding spillover into Belarus with this as a source. While there is dispute over who exactly is responsible, it does appear this is spillover from this conflict. Not adding the edit myself as I'm <500 contributions and I'm curious if this is WP:TOOSOON U-dble ( talk) 18:13, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
Has Poland closed its border/frontier with Belarus and have the Baltic States closed theirs with Russia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 08:33, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
Could a series of periodical war maps be displayed on the article page? These would be from Day 1 of the war till the present. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 08:43, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
This could be things like:- World economic price fluctuations; How the Russian oligarchs are trying to hide their assets; How squatters in London have broken into the Russian oligarchs homes and have invited Ukrainian refugees into them [6]; etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 14:30, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
References
You may want to add that China is supporting Russia's economy by buying a huge amount of oil.
Cyclon33ee91 ( talk) 22:41, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
Is the current Russo Ukrainian War a continuation of the Soviet-Ukrainian War (1917-1921)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 12:59, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
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2601:985:801:2070:459:5E35:483E:EF0 ( talk) 23:07, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
Russian casualties 498
I'm having some issues verifying claims made in a large section under /info/en/?search=Russo-Ukrainian_War#Pro-Russian_unrest
Here are the paragraphs in question:
The initial protests across southern and eastern Ukraine were largely native expressions of discontent with the new Ukrainian government. [1] Russian involvement at this stage was limited to voicing support for the demonstrations, and the emergence of the separatists in Donetsk and Luhansk began as a small fringe group of protesters, independent of Russian control. [1] [2] Russia would go on to take advantage of this, however, to launch a co-ordinated political and military campaign against Ukraine, as part of the broader Russo-Ukrainian War. [1] [3] Putin gave legitimacy to the nascent separatist movement when he described the Donbas as part of the historic " New Russia" (Novorossiya) region, and issued a statement of bewilderment as how the region had ever become part of Ukraine in 1922 with the foundation of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic. [4]
When the Ukrainian authorities cracked down on the pro-Russian protests and arrested local separatist leaders in early March, these were replaced by people with ties to the Russian security services and interests in Russian businesses, probably by order of Russian intelligence. [5] By April 2014, Russians citizens had taken control of the separatist movement, and were supported by volunteers and materiel from Russia, including Chechen and Cossack militants. [6] [7] [8] [9] According to DPR insurgent commander Igor Girkin, without this support in April, the movement would have fizzled out, as in it did in Kharkiv and Odessa. [10]
The first reference [1] is a US-Military sponsored document that contains no evidence itself. It has many references, but they are all opinion articles; yet it is being treated as fact, in many places throughout the page
The second reference [2] is appropriate and less biased, and should probably be used instead, where appropriate
The third reference [3] is alongside a claim that "Russia would go on to take advantage of this, however, to launch a co-ordinated political and military campaign against Ukraine, as part of the broader Russo-Ukrainian War". However, the summary of the article alone is that "Putin's power play in Ukraine was impulsive and improvised, without any clear sense of the desired end state. After many months of effort, Russia has achieved limited gains, but at high cost". I feel it's disingenuous to use that as a reference implying that the campaign was co-ordinated, when the article seems to imply the opposite, but I suppose at that point it's just semantics.
The next problem is the first one again [5]. It is a reference for the claim "When the Ukrainian authorities cracked down on the pro-Russian protests and arrested local separatist leaders in early March, these were replaced by people with ties to the Russian security services and interests in Russian businesses, probably by order of Russian intelligence" - which seems like an unnecessary opinion in the entry with that 'probably'.
Additionally, only two names are mentioned during this change of leadership, and Igor Strelkov did indeed have ties with Russian Security Services, but Aleskandr Boroday did not. There are no sources listed when the reference claims, generically, "Ukrainian authorities removed the local political figureheads of the protest movement but, as a consequence, they were replaced by individuals with ties to Russian security services, military experience, and associations with business interests in Russia". While those claims are technically all true for Strelkov alone, it doesn't seem appropriate to imply they are true for others without evidence
Then we have the same reference [6], among three others, claiming "By April 2014, Russians citizens had taken control of the separatist movement, and were supported by volunteers and materiel from Russia, including Chechen and Cossack militants".
Additionally, none of the references mention Chechens at all, and only this questionable reference mentions Cossacks, and only as part of the baseline history - and with a source that is no longer valid.
They also mention only one Russian in a command position; of the four non-Ukrainians taking positions in the DPR, 3 were Moldovan/Transnistrian, not Russian - only Vladimir Antyufeyev is natively Russian, and the only former soviet officer among them
But most importantly, Vladimir Zakharchenko was still considered the 'Prime Minister' and 'commander-in-chief' - a locally born Donetsk resident. These articles imply that it is incorrect to claim that Russian citizens had taken control of the movement at that point
And finally, we have the last reference, same as the second [10], referring to the previous statement about Chechen/Cossack/Russian volunteers, paired with "According to DPR insurgent commander Igor Girkin, without this support in April, the movement would have fizzled out, as in it did in Kharkiv and Odessa"
However, the actual claim in the article is that "the storming of local SBU (security service) buildings that began on 6 April was inconclusive until Igor Girkin arrived with 52 fighters in Slov"ians'k in the north west of the Donbas on 12 April. Girkin (aka Strelkov) himself later stated that 'I was the one who pulled the trigger of the war. … If our unit hadn't crossed the border, everything would have fizzled out—like in Kharkiv, like in Odesa'"
The reference claims they entered Donbas from the north-west, near Sloviansk, implying that the soldiers he recruited were not Russian volunteers but came from within Ukraine. It is disingenuous to suggest the aforementioned Russian volunteers had anything to do with it, when Igor was referring to himself and his unit, and not any Russian support. (Also the grammar is bad, either way)
As a whole, I feel that anything based solely on the first reference [1] should be removed; it's an opinion piece, which cites only opinion articles, and contains no actual evidence. The US Military also has a vested interest in the conflict, resulting in significant potential bias or propaganda, especially if this is the only source that supports a claim. At the least, the statements made about it should be corrected to agree with the contents of the reference
The other references are mostly fine, but the claims they are paired with do not match those in the references, and there are many opinions within the page; I was only checking one very small section, but I suspect the page needs a lot of re-examining for the validity of references
I think it's very important to avoid definitive statements on the inconclusive topic of whether or not the protests were initially spurred by Russia; US and UE claims they were, Russia claims they were not, and there's no evidence of Russian national involvement (other than Crimea) until August 2014 - long after the protests. The context of everything else is dramatically different, depending on whether or not the protests were legitimate and done by Ukrainians due to dissatisfaction with the new regime, or if they were instigated by Russia as part of a bigger takeover
Obviously, if you do find good references, just add those and call it a day; I haven't been able to, but I'm no expert. Just trying to dig out some real info, and was quite disappointed that none of these statements were really provably factual
Dimencia ( talk) 08:52, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
References
Should we add the total number of causalities with the totes number causalities of the Invasion of Ukraine? BigRed606 ( talk) 07:50, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
Why are non-EU/NATO countries that have materially supplied Ukraine not listed in the infobox? -- Ugly Ketchup ( talk) 18:29, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
Should the claims about this being the start of WW3 be added https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/world-war-iii-may-already-started-russian-invasion-zelenskyy-says-rcna19967 https://thehill.com/policy/international/598459-zelensky-world-war-iii-may-have-already-started https://www.foxnews.com/world/ukraine-president-zelenskyy-warns-ww-iii-may-have-already-started https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10620665/Zelensky-says-World-War-Three-started.html https://www.businessinsider.com/zelenskyy-russian-invasion-could-lead-to-start-of-wwiii-2022-3 Persesus ( talk) 04:00, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
Now, argue over this all you want but here are the links
Russo-Ukrainian War, since the start of 2022
"Ukraine War", since the start of 2022
and here are my points
DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT SUGGESTING TO RENAME OR MOVE THIS ARTICLE WITHOUT FIRST ANALYZING THESE RS
·None of the RS naming this war are newer than 2018 when the conflict was in a different stage. Claim WP:RECENTISM if you wish, but the on-wiki nomenclature of the city of Kyiv itself is based upon a movement that was started in 2018 and completed in 2020, so I think it's fair to start looking for more recent articles naming this conflict.
·This article's handling of who is at play in this war is inconsistent and I think it's fair to say that it is no longer simply an affair between Russia and Ukraine, and that is most definitely a recent change, which would be made clearer if this war were either compartmentalized with the Crimea-Donbas portion of the war in one part and the Invasion in another, or if this entire war is renamed and focus on the ongoing conflict continues in the infobox.
· This source draws comparison to the Russo-Georgian War and draws attention to the fact that Georgia's conflict with Russian proxies began well before the 2008 invasion, much like Ukraine's conflict with Russian proxies began well before the 2022 invasion, BUT Wikipedia currently holds that the Russo-Georgian War only lasted 10 days, post-invasion, where as the Russo-Ukrainian War includes 8 years of pre-invasion conflict. Holding the current name in context with other conflicts of the same type appears to cause an interruption in consistency.
·The term "Russo-Ukrainian War" is just not that widely used by the press, it's being preferred for "Russia-Ukraine War" or other more popular titles, while I know this is not how WP naming conventions work, I think that it's possible that we could re-evaluate this title, which was given in 2014 and only supported by articles prior to 2018.
I AM AWARE THAT MY FINDINGS AREN'T CONCRETE and I can see that a lot of the results in my second link are from a single journal, as well as the mix-in of some articles which include the term "Russia-Ukraine War". But as it stands, it would appear more recent articles appearing use the term "Ukraine War" in place of "Russo-Ukrainian War". So I'm not trying to mislead anyone, just give some feedback that may help keep this article from spiraling into a mess lest this escalate once more into an even wider conflict. It's already affecting this country I live in.
Icepunchies ( talk) 10:12, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
Just weeks before ordering the invasion of Ukraine, Vladimir Putin survived at assassination attempt. Shaken to the core, Putin ordered that anybody remotely suspected to be involved in the plot (eg military officials/bureaucrats/oligarchs/etc) to be secretly executed in a " Stalinist-style" purge said an expert linked to American espionage services. However, the mastermind behind the assassination plan - believed to be a multibillionaire businessman - slipped through Putin's net and is now somewhere in western Europe under the protection of the French foreign spy service, the DGSE.
The motive was that this "cabal" weren't happy with the state of the Russian economy even before the invasion. According to the expert, the Kremlin conspirators attempted to assassinate Putin by coating a sleeve of his judo jacket with the nerve agent Novichok, but the assassination attempt collapsed when Putin's judo partner put on the poison-laced jacket by mistake.
Putin was so shaken that he now won't let anyone close which is why one sees those images of him sitting at one end of a 40-foot table and his "visitors" sitting at the other end. Western intelligence services still don't know the extent of Putin's purges. It is said that Putin often rewatches (in a continuous loop) the 2011 assassination of Libyan dictator, Muammar Gaddafi.
Putin has walled himself off from the outside world and only speaks with those who don't dare tell him anything other than what he wants to hear. He's living in a delusional shell of fear and suspicion. He's bet everything on success in Ukraine. If Putin loses the war, he's finished. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 10:16, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
References
Should the Russophobia page be link in the related issues page since of what's been going on? Persesus ( talk) 04:57, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
Someone removed all the massive captured Russian soldiers from the casualty section, and has some outrageous edits claiming of 9,000+ joined Russian forces as though this was done willingly or that counts as a casualty, and also, source?
This is really not an accurate Wiki page with these edits in there, and the Russian Casualty counts are outlandishly low. Wiki Editors please wake up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.51.76.65 ( talk) 03:47, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
Armenia sent fighters with pilots and thus supported Russia AdelajdSikor ( talk) 19:30, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
Mr Bernhard von Vos. Has dedicated his entire adult life. For children. Maybe . He's a little disappointed. Why ?Boys and girls, Wikipedia users. For example from Ukraine. They ignore the website dedicated to the General Delegate for the Rights of the Child. Here if only! succeeded. The boys and girls from Wikipedia. To inspire – to write – to write with a dominant idea! Locksan ( talk) 10:35, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
Two non-existent states are listed as "belligerents" here (boxes on the right):
Donetsk PR Luhansk PR
These "states" only exist within what passes for the mind of the paranoid neurotic child-murderer squatting in the Kremlin. Why have they been listed here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.187.58.246 ( talk) 13:43, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect
Russia vs. Ukraine and has thus listed it
for discussion. This discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 March 26#Russia vs. Ukraine until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. signed,
Rosguill
talk
16:45, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
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Change "stated Ukraine was wrongfully created by Soviet Russia" to "stated wrongfully that Ukraine was created by Soviet Russia" Sveinaberg ( talk) 02:22, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
add Mexico and Japan in the Russo Ukrainian War Jonathan555568 ( talk) 05:58, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
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PLease i request you to put a plus sign after the ukrainian casualties and russian casualties because the military casualties has sky rocketed since. Greenarmy4y37882 ( talk) 16:22, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
The thesis, in itself, is undeniable!
"Vladimir Putin will go down (in history) as one of the world's great villains. He's up there with Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Idi Amin. He's a menace. Putin's silenced anyone who would speak against him and has 'disappeared' more people (not counting the Ukrainians) in the middle of the night that can be counted" notes international affairs expert Dr. John Garrow. [1]
"Putin has mental health problems. There can be little doubt that his brain has been neurologically and physically changed. Absolute power for long periods makes one blind to risk, highly egocentric, narcissistic and utterly devoid of self-awareness" says Dr. Ian Robertson in Psychology Today. [2]
Since clawing his way to the top from 1999, Putin's absolute power has warped his reasoning. He has manipulated and consolidated his power (much like Adolf Hitler did) by transforming, twisting, and usurping Russia's judiciary, media and government institutions to serve him and his ways say psychologists. [3]
Former Ukrainian UN ambassador Yuriy Sergeyev has proclaimed that Putin is a "maniac and hiding a serious (mental) disease". [4]
Former German Chancellor Angela Merkel once concluded that Putin is "in another world". [5] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 13:01, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
Although the following incident may be easily dismissed as an April Fools joke, the presenter swore that it really happened:-
Apparently, a Russian drone was shot down when a Ukrainian woman threw a jar of pickled cucumbers at it! [6] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 06:15, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
References
There is a rule in Russian wikipedia, which is a Russian racist thing, that implies that Ukraine is not a country, but just a part of Russia - it shows that it is correct to say not "in Ukraine" but "on Ukraine". According to the rules of the Russian language: "on *some territory*" refers only to areas of the country, not to a separate country. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GoldNotGod ( talk • contribs) 15:54, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
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Remove the misinformation about Russian troops on the border being the start of the modern Russia vs Ukraine conflict, and change it to more accurately represent the events that took place. Make a mention of the people of the Donbas region being shelled and attacked with increased severity, which actually prompted the "invasion" 2600:8801:BE09:6600:316E:9DEE:8D0F:F714 ( talk) 19:20, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
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I want to edit because I watch YouTube and know a bit more information MikeMikeLol ( talk) 15:33, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
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Please link the first occurrence of OHCHR General Vicinity ( talk) 16:41, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
I fail to see how Zelensky being jewish is relevant when discussing if the Ukranian government is a nazi regime. Could someone please explain how that is relevant? There were also prominent members of the 3rd reich that were jewish (or "half-jewish"), so that an individual is jewish can hardly be seen as an argument against a regime's stance on jews. Even if the 3rd reich was persecuing jews, this is not an ingrained quality of nazism; rather the nationalist totalitarian ideology is a defining feature, not hating jews. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.239.195.102 ( talk) 12:50, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
To prevent any mistakes or misunderstandings, the hot line between Washington and Moscow is still operational and continues to be kept open. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 13:22, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
Can someone with experience in maps correct this (or state why it is consistent?): c:File_talk:2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine.svg#Inconsistent_with_source. Habitator terrae ( talk) 15:40, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
Russo-Ukrainian Wars is collection of armed conflicts between Ukrainian states or national movements on the one hand, and Russian states on the other, that have been going on, intermittently, from the time of Kievan Rus' to the present. Please add this link to the article.-- Sakateka ( talk) 09:06, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
In the post, the sources include
http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/67843 http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/67885 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60785754 https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/20/politics/russia-ukraine-negotiations-us-nato/index.html
Thewriter006 ( talk) 00:36, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
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Please add the following at the end of the lead: In 2022 the International Criminal Court opened an investigation into allegations of Russian military war crimes in Ukraine. [1]
It is taken from the article about the invasion (apart from the year). General Vicinity ( talk) 16:34, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
References
Rather than using the SVG map, which is either blocked or suffering from edit wars, and never seems to agree with {{ Russo-Ukrainian War detailed map}} anyway, can we just transclude the map template instead? — kwami ( talk) 19:24, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
The yellow arrows on the yellow map are near-unreadable — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.146.8.169 ( talk) 18:48, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
Adding Bucha massacre under human right violations 24.98.147.231 ( talk) 05:33, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
Please note there's discussion ongoing about far-right Russian separatists in this conflict. The discussion started here, continued here, and has now been raised at the dispute resolution noticeboard. ~ Asarlaí 13:55, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
Did Russian politician Vladimir Zhirinovsky actually die from Covid-19 (despite having been vaccinated 8 times) or was he murdered and is his death somehow related to the current war? [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 06:32, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
The map is currently shown as April 6, while the Invasion map is already on the 12th. It needs to be updated at all times in the War page 201.20.127.227 ( talk) 23:50, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
Following a succession of unproductive discussions about the page title, which have been circular wastes of time, I would like to propose a six-month moratorium on moving this page. Right now, in the thick of the conflict, any discussion about this page's title is unlikely to be productive or reach a satisfactory conclusion. We are awash with WP:BREAKING news coverage and laden with WP:RECENTISM, making any attempt to determine what the common name for the whole conflict an impossible task. Therefore, to avoid continuous disruption, and to give us some distance from these events before reconsidering the matter, I propose this six-month moratorium, similar to what has been done other ongoing conflict pages. Hopefully, in the intervening period, academic sources will come into play, and the historiography of this conflict, as carried out by RS, will become more apparent. RGloucester — ☎ 16:02, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
There's no need for that. I'm curious why you feel the need to shut down discussion. It has seemed like there has been a growing consensus on a move which you have seemed singularly opposed to. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.124.33.16 ( talk) 17:39, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
The article says Russia is wrong in stating Ukraine was created by Soviet Russia. But the wikipedia article that talks about Ukraine forming was due to Russia granting it independence, with Crimea as it was promised on the condition of a permament naval base.
I think the articles are biased toward western views and don't reflect neutrality on the formation of modern ukraine. 58.174.122.48 ( talk) 17:43, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
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The invasion caused global outcry amongst private citizens. Many foreign volunteers have sent themselves to become freedom fighters, with some being combat veterans and others being inexperienced civilans. [2] [3] Russia has declared that these fighters will not be granted POW status if captured, labeling them as "mercenaries" despite the fact that most legitimate fighters officially enlisted in the Ukrainian Military upon arriving in the country. [4] OHMYGODWEDIDIT ( talk) 21:32, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
Sources
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Please remove :
9,268 joined Russian forces after annexation[15]
and remove [15] from sources Beeballerina ( talk) 10:09, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
' ' 'Support' ' ' Whenever I google "Russo-Ukranian War", "Russia Ukraine war", etc, I pretty much only ever get the pages and articles for the invasion. Considering Ukraine and Russia weren't in direct conflict (excluding little green men) before it began, and the confusion calling this prolonged the conflict the war instead of the actual ongoing direct fighting, why don't we move this article to "Russo-Ukrainian conflict"? Aubernas ( talk) 09:09, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
If there is a hostile occupation of territory, there is a war, no? The fact that it fell out of the English-language news cycle is irrelevant. By that measure, there is nothing wrong in Honduras, and Congo is at peace. I oppose any attempt to change the scope.
I don't see the point of changing the title, on the other hand, but don't actively oppose doing so either. Elinruby ( talk) 17:18, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
"if there is a hostile occupation of territory, there is a war"is WP:OR and also wrong. To take an obvious example, few would call the Israeli occupation of the West Bank a continuous 50+ year war, although there was certainly ongoing asymmetric warfare, terrorism and state-sponsored violence – it would more likely be called a conflict. The active war was in Donbas, hence the article War in Donbas. Jr8825 • Talk 18:13, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
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I suggest the caption of the infobox be changed, from "The military situation as of 6 April 2022, during the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine" to "The military situation as it is currently, during the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine" or anything along those lines. This is for better consistency in time so the date does not have to be updated daily. Flagvisioner ( talk) 02:13, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
The map of the current situation in Ukraine is from 13 days ago and needs to be updated. DirtyPotatoEditor ( talk) 10:02, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
Deliberate or not (I shan't cast aspersions), I have noticed that citations are being used without context. If a newspaper has reported something, name the newspaper in the text. Steer away from using opinion pieces as sources for factual information. Don't synthesise sources to make claims that are considered original research. In sum, this page is in desperate need of a clean up. Yellowmellow45 ( talk) 20:19, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
Normally as article which refers to a War would be expected to have a section about the actual Declaration of War, though there is no such section in this article. When did Russia declare the War, on what date, and with what words did Russia declare War. Similarly for Ukraine, on what date did Ukraine declare/acknowledge War, and with what words did Ukraine declare/acknowledge War. Can a Declaration of War section be added to this article or is there a reason for no such section being in the article? ErnestKrause ( talk) 00:22, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
There was no formal declaration. In 2014 the Ukrainians also stated the Russian invasion was an effective declaration. [1] — Michael Z. 02:43, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
Please be notified of Talk:Battle of Kherson#Requested move 24 April 2022. It affects many articles related to the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine (with one or two from Russo-Ukrainian War that are not part of the invasion). The proposal is to move from "battle of X" to "battle for X". Cinderella157 ( talk) 05:08, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
the european union confirmed that germany illegally sold arms to russia despite the embargo 88.156.128.39 ( talk) 16:15, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
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Please remove :
9,268 joined Russian forces after annexation[15]
and remove [15] from sources
The reason is that the article does not seem accurate with its timing and facts. I am not sure who added this but It looks like anti-propaganda. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beeballerina ( talk • contribs) 21:51, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
Ive gone ahead and Done the edit request. Looking at the RSN conversation, it does seem to not be generally considered "high quality", and that seems like quite a significant claim there, so to err on the side of safety, I've removed the said line.
Aidan9382 (
talk)
12:40, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
These two pages show the same map, but with different dates in the caption:
- /info/en/?search=Russo-Ukrainian_War - "The military situation as of 6 April 2022, during the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine"
- /info/en/?search=2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine - "Military situation as of 23 April 2022"
The caption on this page's map should be updated to 23 Apr. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C7:7E86:601:344F:C90E:933F:1F42 ( talk) 09:06, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
Should we mention NATO's (and the UN's) rejection of a no fly zone? Slatersteven ( talk) 14:50, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
Done:
reworded this, as DLNR are not oblasts. —
Michael
Z.
16:22, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
Proposed addition following final paragraph of this section:
From February 25th to April 2nd Russian forces closed in and attempted to capture the city of Kyiv. Russian forces besieged the city with artillery and rocket fire through March[1]. Following successful Ukrainian counterattacks in late March, Russian forces began withdrawing from the Kyiv area on 29 March[2][3]. The capture of Kyiv was a major objective for the Russian Offensive, the failure to do so was a major defeat for the Russian Army. On 2 April, Ukrainian authorities reported that the entire Kyiv region had been recaptured, ending the Battle of Kyiv(2022)[4][5].
Following the failure to take Kyiv, Russian forces diverted to the Eastern and Southern portions of Ukraine where heavy fighting continued. Russian forces began a "Heavy Offensive in Donbass"[6], and continued the Siege of Mariupol which had been under siege since the beginning of the invasion[7]. Conflicting information regarding a potential ceasefire in the besieged Ukrainian port city of Mariupol. Some sources claim that the Russian forces are currently maintaining a cease-fire around the Azovstal Iron and Steel Works plant[8]. However, other sources claim the Russian forces are attempting to "storm" the steel plant[9]. Sources of information regarding this potential ceasefire or offensive have been released around the same times. As of May 2nd, the NBC reports that "civilians are finally being evacuated from the bombed-out steel plant"[10].
References
1. CNN, Nathan Hodge, Olga Voitovych, Paul Murphy and Laura Smith-Spark. "Russian bombardment of Ukrainian cities blunts hopes of swift breakthrough". CNN. Retrieved 2022-05-03.
2. "New York Times New York State Poll, March 1999". ICPSR Data Holdings. 1999-06-16. Retrieved 2022-05-03.
3. Vovk, Dmytro (2022-05-03), "Forced Displacement, Religious Freedom and the Russia-Ukraine Conflict", Religion and Forced Displacement in Eastern Europe, the Caucasus, and Central Asia, Nieuwe Prinsengracht 89 1018 VR Amsterdam Nederland: Amsterdam University Press, ISBN 978-90-485-5393-8, retrieved 2022-05-03 {{
citation}}
: Empty citation (
help): horizontal tab character in |place= at position 25 (help); horizontal tab character in |title= at position 32 (help)
4. "Volume of exchange-traded derivatives by selected region, January-April 2021". dx.doi.org. 2022-04-15. Retrieved 2022-05-03.
5. "'Ukraine has won the Battle of Kyiv'". National Review. 2022-04-03. Retrieved 2022-05-03.
6. "Figure 8 from: Pyle RL (2016) Towards a Global Names Architecture: The future of indexing scientific names. In: Michel E (Ed.) Anchoring Biodiversity Information: From Sherborn to the 21st century and beyond. ZooKeys 550: 261–281.
https://doi.org/10.3897/zookeys.550.10009". dx.doi.org. Retrieved 2022-05-03. {{
cite web}}
: Empty citation (
help): External link in |title= (help)
7. "The siege of Mariupol". France 24. 2022-04-21. Retrieved 2022-05-03.
8. "Russia announces ceasefire around Mariupol's Azovstal steel plant: Ministry". Al Arabiya English. 2022-04-25. Retrieved 2022-04-25.
9. Reuters (2022-04-24). "Ukraine's military says Russian forces are trying to storm Azovstal plant". Reuters. Retrieved 2022-04-25.
10. "Russia-Ukraine war live updates: Civilians evacuated from Mariupol steel plant; Pelosi meets Polish president". NBC News. Retrieved 2022-05-03.
link to draft: /info/en/?search=User:Hogebasj/Russo-Ukrainian_War?preload=Template%3ADashboard.wikiedu.org_draft_template#Article_Draft
If you look in ‘belligerents’ there’s a link ‘ Supporters of Ukraine in the 2022 Russian Invasion of Ukraine’ but there are no supporters according to that article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Coco the Dawg ( talk • contribs) 04:32, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
Following up on an issue identified by Jr8825 here and myself. I've OR/SYNTH concerns about this article and, if you look at how it evolved over time, its not clear its current state was even intentional. This article gradually morphed from an article on the 2014 annexation of Crimea, and as that carried on, to an article basically on all of Ukraine and Russia's interactions since 2014 [2], which is not a well-defined article scope. Eventually, a pre-invasion low-participation no-sources RM resulted in it being called "Russo-Ukrainian War". The issue is most obvious in the current lead, which focuses on 2014 events, provides a one-sentence summary on the state of occupation as of 2019, and then discusses the 2022 invasion. It labels 2015-2022 as a "frozen conflict phase (2015-2022)". In reality, it is talking about three disparate events that occurred in 2014-2015 and then in 2022, and it pops them all into one article under an OR heading of "Russo-Ukrainian War".
This article has no clear scope. The cited sources do not support "Russo-Ukrainian War" existing as a proper name. For example, one cited source referring to a 'war' was cherry-picked; the source is talking about the aggression in Crimea and Donbas, discussing both independently and and in a summary concluding sentence used the word 'war' once–evidently just varying vocabulary–and that was used to support the title. Never-mind that the section is titled "The Modern Russo-Ukrainian Conflict" (pg 127) and discusses both events independently. It made no claim of an ongoing war since 2014. There is no consensus in RS of that existing, and forget consensus I'm not even sure there exist sources that clearly claim that.
It's clear this article is a summary article of three disparate conflicts:
Calling this a " Russo-Ukrainian War" is something invented on Wikipedia, and thus pure OR/ WP:SYNTH. The existence of a war is justified by a section titled " frozen conflict phase (2015-2022)" to fill the timeline, also invented by Wikipedia and completely unsourced. This is causing problems in sub-articles too, confusing their scope and layout, e.g. List of foreign aid to Ukraine during the Russo-Ukrainian War which is mostly 2022 invasion content. Sources that now refer to a 'war' are referring to 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, and so readers searching for a 'Ukraine Russia war' are probably trying to find that, but ending up here. This article has no clear scope, and I'm not sure it can find a clear scope; the purpose of this article is something we usually use a navbox/campaignbox for. ProcrastinatingReader ( talk) 18:40, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
The name has been discussed before.And all the arguments seem to lack sources. And where they have sources, they're misused. For example
Oppose I am pretty sure Russia declared war on Ukraine. [4]-- obviously, per the 2022 source, a war exists as of 2022. But then Wikipedians are extrapolating 2022 sources to say the war started in 2014 and there has been a constant state of war since, which is OR.
count[ing] the total number of victims of hostilities in Donbas from April 14, 2014 to February 10, 2020.which is a War in Donbas figure. The data used in the infobox is not "Russo-Ukrainian War" statistics, they're War in Donbas statistics with editor-conducted calculations in some cases. If there were a 'Russo-Ukrainian War' since 2014, don't you think at least one, probably multiple, RS would be clearly reporting data pertaining to it (which, at minimum, would include combined figures from the annexation and the War in Donbas)? ProcrastinatingReader ( talk) 21:07, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
You’re completely right, and you forgot to mention the fact that Russia only lost 500 soldiers in the whole period from 2014 to 2022 when the war was apparently happening according to wikipedia editors. And most ukrainian troops were killed in direct combat with rebels, all according to sources listed in the infobox. I have opened one very detailed move request for this article, including many sources that prove that “Russia-Ukraine War” is only used for the 2022 invasion, yet editors literally just rejected all sources i included and immediately closed the request instead of using valid arguments to my sources. Wikiman92783 ( talk) 12:34, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/russo-ukraine.htm
Russia appears to be acting more and more like a Mafia state where Putin is the " Il Capo de Tutti Capi" (The Boss of the Bosses), The Oligarchs are the "Dons" (subordinate bosses) and this whole thing is Russia "muscling in" on Ukraine's "turf". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 06:35, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
Does Vladimir Putin intend to launch a second Holodomor against Ukraine just like Stalin once did? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 06:16, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
Xx236 ( talk) 11:18, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
Tens of thousands bytes removed without any discussion. Xx236 ( talk) 09:27, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
Hello! I recently made an edit removing a large amount of content from the Reactions section. Why? Because I thought the section was in dire need of help. It was messy, confusing, in places seriously out of date, and structured strangely. Above all else, it was not written in a good summary style. The section was indiscriminate in what information was included, leading to a messy piece of writing that made no distinction between important, meaningful, lasting reactions and unimportant ones. It did not provide a general overview of reactions to this important event, but rather a cherry-picked sampling. This is the inevitable consequence of a long-standing article on a complex, multi-phase event taking place over 8 years. Until I (or someone else) puts in the work to add a truly encyclopedic, well-summarized 'Reactions' section, I think it's better to link to the relevant sub-articles in all their glory rather than allowing the messy section to stand on this page. —Ganesha811 ( talk) 11:30, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 8 March 2022 and 13 May 2022. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Hogebasj (
article contribs). — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Hogebasj (
talk •
contribs)
15:55, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
Xx236 it is unclear what you want to be done, please specify. X-750 Rust In Peace... Polaris 01:17, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
it seems odd to list many entities as one 2601:642:C481:4640:0:0:0:6DE ( talk) 06:05, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
When a NATO member country supports Ukraine, it is not to say they act on behalf of NATO there⸺if you get what I'm saying. Nordic non-NATO countries have also supported Ukraine. Feel free to add this information there therefore. ToniTurunen ( talk) 20:05, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
The usual practice here has always been to list sides that, besides mere diplomatic or humanitarian support, also had a direct of indirect military role (often, but not always, including those supplying military-grade equipment). Under that note, adding Sweden, Finland, South Korea, Japan, Australia and New Zealand to the list is the most accurate course of action. These countries have supplied arms to Ukraine just like NATO, yet cannot be included under the NATO umbrella. Having NATO as Ukraine's sole defender seems dangerously close to US-Eurocentrism and pure misinformation. The Last Scholar ( talk) 00:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
NATO, as an organization, refuses to send troops or weapons to Ukraine or impose a no-fly zone over it to keep the trans-Atlantic military group from being drawn into a wider war with nuclear-armed Russia. Individual NATO countries, however, have provided anti-aircraft and anti-tank weapons to Ukraine, as well as equipment and medical supplies.
References
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/3482769-who-estimates-3000-avoidable-deaths-in-ukraine-due-to-lack-of-access-to-chronic-illness-treatments/ Xx236 ( talk) 12:29, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
The Crimean separatists and Donbas separatists would obviously not agree to this characterization. I suggest editing this term to the "2014 Ukrainian Revolution." If the editors were to add "(characterized as the 'Revolution with Dignity' in Ukraine)", that would be accurate and OK, albeit a bit wordy. The page on the 2014 Ukraine Revolution should also be edited along the same lines. The current entry is biased and inaccurate from the perspective of one side in the dispute. Wikipedia needs to stop being so partisan in everything. It is tiresome. 108.56.219.144 ( talk) 05:27, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
Can someone please add info into the article as per /info/en/?search=Russia_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#Nuclear_arsenal_of_Russia ?
It would help the 30k people looking at this every day with having some perspective with regard to nuclear arsenals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:8080:A702:EA85:C45F:2E5A:862B:6891 ( talk) 18:37, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
Add this into the article please. It's the Russian ambassador to London's declaration about nuclear weapons.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61618902 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:8080:A702:EA85:2521:62FF:8BC7:AF90 ( talk) 22:31, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
I request to add an information on the fact that Russian concscripts are used in the war since the beginning. Thanks. Few sources: [6] [7] [8] AXONOV (talk) ⚑ 13:33, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
or at least using it only as an attributed opinionI totally agree with you, but I'm Russian and I tend to abstain from contribution into the article. There is a plenty of sources besides US embassy website. Cheers. AXONOV (talk) ⚑ 15:38, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
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I believe that NATO involvement in the war has helped Ukraine get an upper hand, and I think it should be mentioned. Here are some sources to back up my point:
Please excuse my bad citing, I am still working on it. BadKarma22 ( talk) 03:33, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
Also, what section would this be added under? BadKarma22 ( talk) 04:55, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
I want to add a section including NATO contributions to the war and their involvement. BadKarma22 ( talk) 04:58, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
Thank you for your response! BadKarma22 ( talk) 16:33, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
I'll move this to the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine BadKarma22 ( talk) 16:34, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
NATO, as an organization, refuses to send troops or weapons to Ukraine or impose a no-fly zone over it to keep the trans-Atlantic military group from being drawn into a wider war with nuclear-armed Russia. Individual NATO countries, however, have provided anti-aircraft and anti-tank weapons to Ukraine, as well as equipment and medical supplies.
References
I don't see any discussion here about the U.S. disinformation campaign and its impact on Wikipedia's reliance on sources that simply reprint U.S. intelligence products. Any comments? Jojalozzo ( talk) 18:42, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12040
Spending by Obama in 2014 was for "non-lethal" weapons, and by Trump in 2017 for "lethal" weapons.
The distinction between the two is riot control equipment is non-lethal (e.g. police), and everything else such as bullets are lethal (e.g army).
I'm pretty sure America is honest about what it's doing as a government, but individual players obviously have varied agenda. But, I'm 100% sure, if the USA government did something, they'd have a receipt for it. But, the caveat is, obviously, we're not always going to agree with those players are we.
Anyway that's my stance on "disinformation", I usually put it down to incomplete research, but then I like reading more than others I guess.
I hope you all have a nice day, and in the future we don't have wars like this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.184.175.53 ( talk) 19:34, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Wouldn't the norms of English grammar dictate the use of an en dash "–" instead of a hyphen in the title "Russo-Ukrainian War". The dash article attests to the en dash's usage in lieu of a hyphen in the cases of compound words such as "Russo–Ukrainian". Quoting the article, one of the en dash's main uses are "as a substitute for a hyphen in a compound when one of the connected items is more complex than a single word", as in the examples given such as "Radical–Unionist coalition", "Boston–Hartford route", and "New York–London flight". Cheers, – 𝑵𝒖𝒏𝒖𝒙𝒙𝒙 ✪ 𝑇𝑎𝑙𝑘 05:22, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
Can someone add this war chart in please?
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61726733?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=62a21cd832686a6e65aef049%26Russia%20may%20have%20lost%2020%2C000%20soldiers%2C%20Western%20official%20says%262022-06-09T16%3A45%3A20.265Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:45d54071-a546-4f7a-b65e-d44f4ad1433a&pinned_post_asset_id=62a21cd832686a6e65aef049&pinned_post_type=share — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:8080:A702:EA85:F002:281A:E7C5:89B2 ( talk) 16:46, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
The caption on the image says “The military situation as of 19 May 2022 [update]”, when it should say “The military situation as of 16 July 2024 [update]”. 2A01:119F:253:7000:9072:8D51:B6AB:8A80 ( talk) 09:04, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
Next to vladimir putin and Sergei Shoigu add '
'
next to voldemort zelensky, Petro Poroshenko and Oleksandr Turchynov add '
' — Preceding
unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])
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I Russo-Ukrainian militairy operation 2A02:A457:53D3:1:31A3:64B4:8BCF:163D ( talk) 17:14, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
Its the Russo-Ukrainian militairy operation not Russo-Ukrainian war
It's about who supports. Ukraine is supported by Greece, Turkish, English, French, German, Swedish, Australian, Norway, United States of America. But not listed on wikipedia? Meanwhile, on the Russian side there is Belarus. Is wikipedia in terms of this information, can be very accurate or not? Wikipedia should always be updated for the latest information. Neutrality is always upheld, as a proper medium of information and does not erase the role of each event because it can change history later. SoloRazer ( talk) 12:27, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
Found a couple of minor errors in the [ "Russia-NATO relations"] section of the article:
> "Russian military aircraft flying over the Baltic and Black Seas often do not indicating their position or communicate with air traffic controllers"
Needs correction to "indicate"
> "Although Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov have characterized the conflict as a proxy war instigated by NATO"
Needs correction to "has"
First time poster, apologies if this is inappropriate. Hoppingskipper ( talk) 14:37, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
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Add "(click to view)" to the Russian Invasion map gifs subtext as it has exceeded the number of frames that will allow it to play in thumbnail form. Physeters ✉ 03:44, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Procedural close. User:Onetwothreeip is represented as requesting this move but did not make this request. See below. ( non-admin closure) Cinderella157 ( talk) 00:45, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
Russo-Ukrainian War → Russian-Ukrainian War – Common name. Onetwothreeip ( talk) 07:09, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
notice: The initial comment in this section was edited after receiving replies to an earlier version. Replaced italics with quotation marks on the Scott Ritter quote below, in accordance with WP policy for quotations. 24.42.166.244 ( talk) 05:56, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
The views expressed are solely those of the author and may or may not reflect those of Consortium News.Sources like this could be permissible for citing uncontentious claims or certain statements of opinion with appropriate in text attribution. (Subject to other policies of course) That said, it appears the author put forth no claim as to the scale of the invasion and his views about the legal justification, regardless of whatever merit they may or may not have, shouldn't be included here as fact as suggested by the phrase
citing it as ... authorized by Aricle 51.... The proposed wording also seems to suggest that Putin himself invoked that legal justification which, although it may be the case (I have no idea), is unsupported at least by this source as best I can tell. -- N8wilson 🔔 21:17, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
Does anyone but wikipedians call this the Ukraine War? I propose renaming this the Ukraine War and removing the current redirect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Ukraine_War&redirect=no
Thoughts? 666hopedieslast ( talk) 08:07, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
The topic of Western propaganda, censorship and disinformation campaigns should be included in this article. Clearly having a section for Russian propaganda without a section for Western propaganda is anything but balanced & neutral. Below is a 'tip of the iceberg' of material from
investigative journalists reporting on the proposed topic.
<extensive copy/paste copyvios removed>
Since South Ossetia has some of its forces attached to Russian military, and there have been South Ossetian desertions from Ukraine (therefore we conclude that there are south ossetian troops there), shouldn't the breakaway state be considered a co-belligerent? 2804:14D:5C59:5717:385A:9FDA:283E:DD25 ( talk) 22:26, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
In the sentence (last of section),
«begin» should be replaced by e.g. «continue». «begin» is incompatible with the text before. It's also refined later in the source*. There, «commencement» is in the abstract, but «continuation» at p. 530.
* Mykhnenko, Vlad (2020).
"Causes and Consequences of the War in Eastern Ukraine: An Economic Geography Perspective". Europe-Asia Studies. 72 (3): 530.
doi:
10.1080/09668136.2019.1684447. The role of the Kremlin's covert military intervention, aided by its local proxies, remains paramount, necessary and sufficient for the continuation of hostilities.
(Forgot to sign, so here: – Markus Prokott ( talk) 03:34, 6 July 2022 (some Time))
a separate section for all the international violations presumably done by the parties will be a good addition.... any views? 203.115.91.240 ( talk) 23:07, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
Anyone have some references to the current estimated strength under mobilization of the AFU, as well as the National Guard, Border Guard, and Territorial Defence? The infobox under “Strength” directs us to Order of battle for the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, but that article has only organization and no numbers whatsoever. — Michael Z. 20:08, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
How can this be called ‘an ongoing war’ when Ukraine was a sovereign nation attacked on Feb 24, 2022 by Russian forces? How can this be called a ‘war’ when top military experts worldwide are calling this a genocide? Calling this a ‘war’ and an ‘extension of a war in from 2014,’ seems to exclude the unique and obvious situation of an unprovoked attack on primarily civilians. 2601:190:C400:9E30:458F:5D8E:F216:7666 ( talk) 00:00, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
Unfortunately the people running this site don’t know how it works. It’s clear that the Russia-Ukraine war started on february 24 according to every single source, yet they bring up pointless self published books and change the notion of this war Wikiman92783 ( talk) 11:09, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
Woah, let's calm down and stop starting fights. Let's work together to settle this civilly. BadKarma22 ( talk) 04:52, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
In other wiki articles they list other names for the event in the first few sentences which could work as something of a middle ground. I've seen Putin's War thrown around in the West. I can't find a really good name from any Russia source though. The best might be: Russia's Ukraine Operation which I found in Russia Today, but even that's a bit too technical. I don't know how Wiki formatting works 2:03, 11 May 2022 (EST) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:1900:A5A0:892E:7508:FA84:85F4 ( talk)
I love the name "Russo-Ukrainian War": traditionally, the loser of the conflict gets the hyphenated prefix and the victor gets the full name. So.... Russo-Japanese War (they lost that one too), Franco-Prussian War? Don't even need to look it up to know who won. Russo-Ukrainian is quite accurate! 70.51.88.190 ( talk) 01:26, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
Following the long, long Wikipedia precedent set by other long term conflicts that simmer down and flare up (Most notably Nagorno Karabakh, Afghanistan, and Libya) and not to mention the average common usage of the term(the war started to most people in February), I propose taking the name Russo-Ukrainian War to the other page and renaming this one to Conflict(because this page covers the broader conflict as a whole, including the down time, while the other page should cover the active full scale war that started in February)
Semi-Related, but for the same reasons the War in Donbas article should be split in two(not to mention length and neatness reasons.) War in Donbas(or Donbas War) should cover the active true hot war phase in 2014-2015, and a separate article (2015-2022 Donbas Skirmishes) should cover the mostly frozen conflict stage with the occasional flareup(which is exactly how those other ones handle it). All of these, plus the various political crisis like Kerch Strait and Euromaiden, are part of the greater Russo-Ukrainian Conflict that started in late 2013, which is the scope of this article. The term “Russo-Ukrainian War” should, as following the precedent set by the other similar cases AND the common usage, be reserved for the full scale war between Russia and Ukraine that broke out this February.
Please note, this is not an attempt to downplay anything. Do not read my intention like that. I simply want to fix a messy set of articles(not even there own fault, we couldn’t have seen the trajectory of this in 2014, Nagorno Karabakh and Afghanistan had far more hindsight beforehand) and get them consistent with the others, not to mention far more in line with common usage.
I’d also like to say support for this has been consistently high from the other side(the page that wants to be Russo-Ukrainian War, but is currently 2022 invasion), so we really just need a decent amount of approval from this side in order to clean this mess up. I hope I can count on your support 2604:3D09:1F80:CA00:9957:F09A:E13D:8B3F ( talk) 06:52, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Map is not updating. Please update it. Sarge Da2 ( talk) 09:29, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
Civilian casualties: 3,393 killed (September 2021) - should be 2022 157.254.225.94 ( talk) 11:52, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
The casualty section probably needs updating Patbahn ( talk) 01:48, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
According to Amnesty International, Ukrainian "fighting tactics" of launching attacks from populated civilian areas, including schools and hospitals, puts civilians in harms way ( https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/08/ukraine-ukrainian-fighting-tactics-endanger-civilians/), a practice colloquially known as, using human shields. Occams ied ( talk) 22:41, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
That list inudes Kazakhstan. It's not an appropriate list to equivocate with military support. Not at all, since a cursory view of that list includes nations like Malta and Kazakhstan and most likely other nations whose foreign policy being described as pro-Ukraine would be patently absurd to anyone actually informed about the war AND the pervasive war propaganda.
It's almost as if this very wiki page is participating in a vast Russophobic conspiracy. 2601:5C4:200:5C40:5C25:C407:8CAE:BF54 ( talk) 14:55, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
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Okay, I am the Ukrainian who has left the conflict in my home country to the United States of America and I saw things there in my country that are not correct written in this article and I would very like to clarify the things which are wrong. Beansshrekmemes ( talk) 13:12, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
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I have some stuff to add for the war. Using this source ( https://www.msn.com/en-xl/news/other/ukraine-round-up-counter-attack-continues-kremlin-remains-defiant/ar-AA11Ketu) it can be added that Ukraine launched a counter-offensive during the Russian's offensive towards Kharkiv on 6 September. By 11 September, Ukraine had taken back the cities of Izyum & Kupiansk. It can also be added that in response, the Russians were 'regrouping'. Ulysses Grant Official ( talk) 00:56, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
Ukrainian forces launched counteroffensives in the south in August, and in the northeast in September.in the section 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine. Feel free to propose additional, more specific changes to the content if you think it should be modified from that. — Danre98( talk^ contribs) 00:07, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
New to Wikipedia, this is locked but the 7% figure in the introduction should be cited: https://press.un.org/en/2019/ga12122.doc.htm that's where it comes from. I thought Wikipedia had a strict policy of citation!! Nerdfighter3 ( talk) 18:23, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
In the history section, please re-add link to main articles e.g. there are links to specific battles like Battle of Ilovaisk but no link to the War in Donbas -- Nilsol2 ( talk) Nilsol2 ( talk) 16:13, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
It is heavily implied in this article that the existence of a Jewish leader precludes the possibility of the existence of the existence of neo Nazism in the country.
This is, at best, false logic.
The phrase "..., despite Zelenskyy being Jewish." Should be replaced with ". However, some people believe this unlikely due to Zelenskyy being Jewish." 120.22.203.116 ( talk) 08:58, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
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Add (until 2022) to DPR and LPR in belligerents Loganp23 ( talk) 23:50, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
For a generally serious improvement onto the article, I believe we should highlight the mass exodus of Ukrainians prior to and during the Russo-Ukrainian War, coming from sites such as [13] https://www.nbcnews.com/specials/ukraine-refugee-exodus-interactive-map/index.html, [14] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-60555472, [15] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-recruits-ukraine-exodus-votes-annexation-putin-rcna49546, [16] https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/europe/2022-03-28/ukrainian-exodus, and [17] https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-poland-migration-00b1b341c356c26db266c64e4e2b5541.
I'm unsure if its already been turned in it's own separate article or as some minor area of the article itself, but having it highlighted as a major section would help with the general civilian side of the war as well. Surreal12 ( talk) 00:17, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
...any edits done here should be fact checked (if such a thing is still possible); there are too many lies, half-lies, and statistics coming from both sides of this conflict of ideas, and from their supporters / detractors; Reuters is probably the only source that might be trusted at this time. Ajpajpajp1 ( talk) 22:42, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
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Sideswipe9th (
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19:01, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
Technically, the name "Russo-Ukrainian War" is in not accurate as no formal declaration of war has been made. A more title would be "Russo-Ukrainian Conflict" with a commonly known as "Russo-Ukrainian War" mention. The maker of this article is not at fault rather the Western news sources who are trying to puss their agenda. 166.182.86.130 ( talk) 19:24, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
With recent incidents of Russia using UCAVs made by Iran and Ukraine cutting off Diplomatic relations with Iran according to reuters, should it be added that Iran supplies/supports Russia? Reuters article below:
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-says-it-downed-four-iranian-drones-zelenskiy-raps-tehran-2022-09-23/ Huntsmanleader ( talk) 22:07, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
The info box would apparently be too small to include all of the countries sending military aid to Ukraine, someone check the allied intervention in the Russian civil war wikipage, you can probably just copy it from there. Occams ied ( talk) 21:51, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
I see not even addressed 2605:B100:101:F35B:AD33:C3D8:26C1:7B22 ( talk) 22:38, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
Whole war page is showcased as anti-Russia. I find it pro-NATO & agenda driven. Reuters is reporting from Ukrainian lines, not Russian. Where is Russian view in this? Asian & African countries view this war being instigated by US & NATO. 2402:3A80:CFA:E944:89E0:8304:214A:5316 ( talk) 17:13, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
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In the Russian belligerents, change it so that the short lived self proclaimed republic of Crimea is included with the dates March 17 2014- March 21 2014. the republic of Crimea had the same amount of recognition as the DPR and LPR, and if they are included, then the illegal Crimean republic should also be included Scu ba ( talk) 15:29, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
I noticed that the map says it shows the military situation as of October 26, but when you click on the map it shows Ukrainian advances from yesterday (Nov 9). The page for the 2022 Russian Invasion of Ukraine has the same map, and says it shows the current military situation as of Nov 10. Could someone fix this page so it says the map is current as of today? thanks Indigotwelve ( talk) 20:02, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
The status of Kherson needs to be changed from Russian controlled to either Ukrainian controlled or contested.
Source: https://www.democracynow.org/2022/11/3/headlines/pentagon_confirms_active_duty_us_troops_are_deployed_inside_ukraine 2A02:810D:12BF:FB6C:9CE7:7A5A:A55C:F9F ( talk) 23:23, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
Why is there nothing in the article about this:
--DC 66.234.79.76 ( talk) 06:47, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
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Nov 26, 2022, 17:43 - «New conscription law»
Article states.....between Ukraine and Russian proxies, with frequent brief ceasefires but no lasting peace and few changes in territorial control...
Just a clarification... the word ceasefire indicates the 2 sides arranged a stoppage of hostilities. There have been lulls where either side consolidated their gains, or rebuild combat effectiveness, or realigned forces, but there have been zero ceasefires.
I know it is a bit nitty 2603:6011:C3F0:A60:8493:80A0:DC69:1E23 ( talk) 17:40, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
I noticed when reading this article under "Related Issues" that there is a section for "Russian propaganda and disinformation campaigns" which is very helpful and significant to understanding the war. However, I noted that there is no section for "Ukrainian propaganda and disinformation campaigns". There is no doubt Ukrainian and international propaganda and disinformation campaigns is highly significant to the war. Regardless of whether one considers the Ukrainian or Russian side to be 'right' or 'wrong', in Wikipedia's ethos of truth and scrutinizing both sides, there should be a credible article written of the Ukrainian propaganda and disinformation campaigns. Thucydides2.0 ( talk) 06:47, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
So (OP) can you give us an example of the sources that are discussing this? Slatersteven ( talk) 15:02, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
A senior general has admitted to have UK troops on ground performing covert operations
source: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/royal-marines-deployed-on-high-risk-covert-operations-in-ukraine-r7b50gv3p RandomPotato123 ( talk) 16:19, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
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I request the title name of this Wikipedia page should be referred to as the "Second Russo-Ukrainian War" instead of "Russo-Ukrainian War." The first conflict between Russia and Ukraine was a hundred years ago. I thought giving this name would be better and would ease confusion later on. /info/en/?search=Ukrainian%E2%80%93Soviet_War#:~:text=The%20Ukrainian%E2%80%93Soviet%20War%20(Ukrainian,Soviet%20Ukraine%20and%20Soviet%20Russia). Lightdroid96 ( talk) 02:46, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
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I request the title name of this Wikipedia page "Russo-Ukrainian War," should be changed to "Second Russo-Ukrainian War." The first conflict between Russia and Ukraine was a hundred years ago. I thought giving this name would be better and would ease confusion later on. /info/en/?search=Ukrainian%E2%80%93Soviet_War#:~:text=The%20Ukrainian%E2%80%93Soviet%20War%20(Ukrainian,Soviet%20Ukraine%20and%20Soviet%20Russia) Lightdroid96 ( talk) 02:57, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
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ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ (
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Change “Location Ukraine (with spillover into Russia, Poland, and Moldova”
To
“Location Ukraine, Russia (with spillover into Poland and Moldova” Jhvhfhv ( talk) 03:26, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
Even without the more powerful Western weapons Ukraine covets, its military has proved inventive with the weaponry it has, striking in Russian territory in the past. Ukraine hit Russian bases in Belgorod, close to the Ukrainian borderAlaexis ¿question? 12:07, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
Here is my sources https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/ukraine-live-belarusian-soldiers-back-ukraine-as-they-turn-on-lukashenko-and-putin/ar-AA15LxAB?cvid=8c75832f922246e5b1db47899acb8e1a&ocid=winp2fptaskbarhover https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1714794/ukraine-live-belarus-soldiers-rebel-ukraine-war-lukashenko-putin 82.14.227.184 ( talk) 10:22, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
I think that Belarus should be added. Russia deliberately (and with permission) maneuvered through Belarus to invade northern Ukraine in February 2022 and then retreated through Belarus from the north soon after that. Russia has also continually used Belarus for launching air-launched missiles and (I think) surface-to-surface missiles. If we have included Poland for a single stray missile and Moldova for overflying Russian missiles, then Belarus surely exceeds those countries' levels of having been affected as a "location" of the war. Holy ( talk) 17:49, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
Good responses, thanks! It seems that there's a stronger argument for Belarus than for Poland, and probably even a stronger argument for Moldova than Poland. So, the choices for "location" are
The argument against including Poland is that a single stray missile shouldn't be enough to consider that it is a "location" of the war. Similarly, the argument against including Moldova is that several deliberate overflights (though an egregious violation of its airspace and non-belligerent status) still don't make it a "location" of the war. Still, I'm inclined toward the middle option. What do you all think of these three options? Holy ( talk) 18:17, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
I believe that a good up to date map is vital to these articles as it helps the reader understand what is happening and why. Please do not remove the maps. Add photos if you wish but keep the maps Bluenose Gunner ( talk) 03:54, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
Recent addition of April 2015 Amnesty report [24] is one-sided. What report do really contains is - Breaking Bodies: Torture and summary killings in eastern Ukraine provides compelling evidence of frequent and widespread prisoner abuse by a broad range of captors on both sides of the conflict. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/ukraine-new-evidence-prisoners-tortured-and-killed-amid-conflict/ . Please update the article accordingly. Manyareasexpert ( talk) 08:58, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
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Russo-Ukrainian War → Russo-Ukrainian conflict – Suits more to the theme of the article, since this event consists of several wars ( War in Donbas, 2022 Russian invasion) and most of its duration as of now consisted of stalemate and occasional shelling along the frontline with less then 500 casualties in 7 years. This situation very much resembled what is happening to this day in the Georgian regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia since 2008, Moldovan region of Transnistria for more than 30 years already or what is happening between Serbia and Kosovo, and these conflicts are not usually described as "wars". CapLiber ( talk) 16:27, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
8 The increase in figures in the current estimate compared with those released by OHCHR earlier is mainly due to processed data on casualties among combatants, including non-combat ones, which occurred before 2021, mostly in 2014-2018.
Tim Judah writing for the New York Review of Books has presented a new outline for the Russo-Ukraine War and the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, which brings up the discussion of whether the Wikipedia articles for these subjects need to be reviewed and updated. Tim Judah states the following outline as being the most appropriate:
Volume I: Maidan in 2014, Russian annexation of Crimea, seizure of parts of Donbas in eastern Ukraine by Russian proxy forces;
Volume II: (We are currently living in what Tim Judah calls chapter 4 of Volume II)
Is this outline by Tim Judah useful to discuss for reviewing and updating both the Wikipedia articles for the Russo-Ukraine War and the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine? ErnestKrause ( talk) 19:07, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
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As of May 2015 Amnesty International had received no reply to these enquiries.
Add a comma after 2015 and change "enquiries" to "inquiries"
As of May 2015, Amnesty International had received no reply to these inquiries. Julianstout ( talk) 18:43, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
Here's the quote:
"The Russo-Ukrainian War has been ongoing between Russia (alongside Russian separatists in Ukraine) and Ukraine since February 2014."
Should it be "The Russo-Ukrainian War is an ongoing war" instead of the original one we have? ☭MasterWolf-Æthelwulf☭ ( =^._.^= ∫) 15:29, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
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TankDude2000 ( talk) 16:59, 30 January 2023 (UTC) I am planning to change this article from “Russo-Ukrainian War” to “Russo-Ukrainian Conflict”. Russia wasn’t in a war with Ukraine until 2022. The current name should be transfered to the “2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine”.
Technically, Russia didn’t officially attack Ukraine in 2014, but rather used rebels to fight Ukraine. That was the War in Donbas or the Ukrainian Civil War. However, the Russo-Ukrainian Conflict, which started with the Crimean crisis, should be the new name. TankDude2000 ( talk) 16:53, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
That was an invasion, since the Ukrainian army didn’t do any offensive. Same with 1968 Czechoslovakia. And the 2022 russian invasion of ukraine should be renamed to russo-ukrainian war. TankDude2000 ( talk) 17:27, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
Dude. Uncool. The war between ruzzia and ukraine started in 2022 while the conflict started in 2014. Period. TankDude2000 ( talk) 17:41, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
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TankDude2000 ( talk) 16:55, 2 February 2023 (UTC)I should remove “international” from “international conflict” at the beginning because the war isn’t international!
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Add the fact that it is an undeclared war Loganp23 ( talk) 02:46, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
Is there a reason the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 is not mentioned at all in this article? Nor linked to? It seems an absurd omission. I see that there was discussion that it did not deserve mention in the lede, but omitting it entirely seems WP:UNDUE in the extreme. Also pretty odd, since we include it in this template about the war.-- Darryl Kerrigan ( talk) 00:15, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
I suggest that we change this title from “Russo-Ukrainian War” to “Russo-Ukrainian Conflict” because the real war started in 2022 with the illegal invasion made by Ruzzia. TankDude2000 ( talk) 15:16, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
Also, check out my talk section on the 2022 Russian Invasion of Ukraine. TankDude2000 ( talk) 15:19, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
Wait a minute, how am I able to edit this article? Are you trying to get me banned? TankDude2000 ( talk) 17:54, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
The first sentence in the lead paragraph isn't really proper English currently:
"Conflict between X and Y against Z" isn't very grammatical or clear. 84.248.144.85 ( talk) 15:12, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
Who decided to make this page unlocked? Could see a lot of trolls making unnecessary changes. Patriciogetsongettingridofhiswiki ( talk) 22:38, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
I've recently created an article for Hypothetical Ukrainian victory in the Russo-Ukrainian War. This has been a widely discussed topic and we have many reliable sources to talk about this. Still, the topic proved quite complex for my amateur geopolitical knowledge and I do not believe I've written a well-argumented and convincing article. Thus, I would appreciate help into writing page, but also linking it throughout other articles and giving it appropriate categories. This being a pretty unique page with few others to compare it to adds to me not having known how to handle this article. Super Ψ Dro 19:56, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
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Ukraine supported by NATO. Should be shown in the Belligerents section with NATO's flag. https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_211740.htm#:~:text=NATO%20is%20stepping%20up%20support,meeting%20of%20NATO%20Defence%20Ministers. Yasarhossain07 ( talk) 06:54, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
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ScottishFinnishRadish (
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15:03, 17 February 2023 (UTC)The result of the move request was: not moved. WP:SNOW closure, unanimous opposition and no chance consensus will develop for move. ( non-admin closure) —Ganesha811 ( talk) 13:33, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
Russo-Ukrainian War → War in Ukraine – Per WP:COMNAME as on Google ["Russo-Ukrainian War"] gives 'About 6,820,000 results' whereas ["War in Ukraine"] gives 'About 151,000,000 results'. --- Tbf69 P • T 19:32, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
a search engine test is a first-pass heuristic or "rule of thumb".After eight odd years, there are good quality sources to tell us what the title should be - how it is titled in such sources. Even if it is also referred to in multiple ways as synonyms, these are not the same as titles. Others also refer to the proposal as WP:RECENTISM as it is the present war in Ukraine of many in history but WP:PRECISE, being the only war with Russia (the Russian Federation) that occupies this title. I don't see this going anywhere and there is a definite forecast for snow. Cinderella157 ( talk) 10:02, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
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When are we going to rename it to WW3? It now to 1/6 of time WW2 was, and it has USA/UK/Germany tanks and 101 airborne of USA circling on it and many many USA/UK/Poland mercs inside Ukraine. It also has the India, China and Iran, maybe Turkey on Russian side as well as many of Africa, cause of Europe stealing their free russian corn. Considering Ukraine bombed Poland 5th article is already at play, so NATO is as good as activated. Why is it not WW3? For all purposes it is. 2A00:1370:8184:1CE9:5EF2:DEC1:E554:DAE3 ( talk) 00:35, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
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Russia ukraine war begun after 2022. Pretty crazy how defensive wikipedia users are over this article for some reason, I’ve even seen them straight up use threats to report users lol. I think it’s a shame how wikipedia has got to this, this makes it a very unreliable source. 88.245.198.84 ( talk) 21:48, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: NOT MOVED - per WP:SNOW ( non-admin closure) FOARP ( talk) 13:51, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
Russo-Ukrainian War → Russo-Ukrainian conflict — No WP:CONSISTENT in regard to the Russo-Georgian War, since direct military confrontation between Russia and Ukraine, after all, began in February 2022. Before that it was sporadic confrontation between some Russian units and Ukrainians, with Russian military aid to the puppet states of DPR and LPR. That confrontation is already descibed in the article on the War in Donbas (2014–2022), and its intensity was falling down consistently until 2022. The invasion and subsequent annexation of Crimea, while no doubt a military aggression, met little to no resistance at the time, thus not provoking a war. In continuation of my proposals made on the talk page for the article on the current war, I'd suggest renaming this article, to then split the part of the latter one to Russo-Ukrainian War, leaving the phase from the start of the invasion until the March-April retreat from Kyiv and northern Ukraine to 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, as it would describe the phase of the war when there was no certainty of Ukraine keeping its capital and thus turning the war into a guerilla warfare, and when there were chances of Russia successfuly depriving Ukraine of its sovereignty, government and the state overall, similarly to the articles on 2003 invasion of Iraq or Operation Barbarossa (from start of the war with the Soviet Union until 1942, where chances of relatively quick occupation of European part of Russia faded completely). The current title unfairly equalizes a large-scale war, with long period trench warfare, heavy bombings of cities all across the biggest European country, sporadic spillovers to neighbouring countries (including EU & NATO members), large military supplies by almost all nations of the so called " First World" and heavy (100K+) losses from both sides, to an almost bloodless, yet still agressive, military operation of one country on another country's soil, and a local war that kept slowly turning into a border conflict, similar to Transnistria conflict, Georgian-Ossetian, or Abkhaz-Georgian conflict. If all three changes are made, it would not deminish the scale of the current war, yet it would draw a distinct line, that is necessary to understand the basic nature of the described events. CapLiber ( talk) 16:28, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
The renames of the articles to "Russo-Ukrainian War" in the russian or english wikipedia happened only after 2022 in support of a very debatable framing of these events
Should NATO be listed in the infobox of the left side? GamerKlim9716 ( talk) 22:28, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
It absolutely should, since 1) NATO is recognized by one of the major belligerents, Russia, as a participant in the conflict (similar to how Belarus, officially neutral, is also considered by NATO as a Russian ally in the war), 2) NATO has arguably given more military support to Ukraine than Belarus has to Russia, yet the latter relationship is included in the infobar, 3) support from NATO members vastly outnumber the support given by non-NATO members like Japan or Taiwan. Unfortunately this has been discussed before and no consensus has been reached, for some reason that eludes me. Eliminating NATO's clear support role in this war is like removing the US/USSR from the Vietnam War top infobox. The Last Scholar ( talk) 04:27, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
Not a single source calls the conflict from 2014 to 2022 as the russia ukraine war, but rather the illegal and evil invasion since february 2022 as such. Naming this article russia ukraine war further proves russian bots’ points about ukraine constantly bombing donbas since 2014. And it is not even a correct name in the first place. I won’t even list the name of articles proving that russia ukraine war is used only for the post-february 2022 invasion since it’s common sense that you can google the name and see for yourself the sources . Wikiman92783 ( talk) 14:04, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
I stongly agree with RegalZ8790! TankDude2000 ( talk) 17:10, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
Was discussed in https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Talk:Russo-Ukrainian_War&oldid=1145644136#Requested_move_1_March_2023 Mateusz Konieczny ( talk) 07:12, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
Rationale for
WP:BOLD given by editor: per MOS:WORDPRECEDENCE, MOS:INFOBOXFLAG. This is non-WP:NPOV because it elevates them to the level of sovereign states.
The cited MOS sections don't really provide guidance specific to the case, although they mention that military conflicts are one exception to the usual rules against overuse of flags.
In every instance I found offhand of insurgencies, secessions and civil wars, notable groups with their own flags, and certainly breakaway quasi-states, had their flags displayed in the infobox. So there appears to be strong consensus to do this, including in contentious topics.
The second statement could ironically itself be construed (although I don't go quite that far myself) as POV. Regardless, state sovereignty is, as I said, irrelevant to whether the flag should be displayed, as well as not being trivial to define. In this case, the DPR and LPR, although little better than Russian puppets, met the criteria for de facto sovereignty as well as the declarative theory of statehood.
RadioactiveBoulevardier ( talk) 19:24, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
[t]his matches the manner in which they are presented in the two articles (this one and the current invasion article) and in reliable sources (as Russia-backed separatist states)refers to
... indeed in being listed underneath Russia with indents they are implied to be subjects of that sovereign statewhich directly preceded it. Mr rnddude ( talk) 23:52, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
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Need to add Viktor Muzhenko to Ukrainian commanders. He was a Chief of the General Staff and Commander-in-Chief of Armed forces in 2014-2019 PaBro2906 ( talk) 20:50, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
Why is the title of this article Russo-Ukrainian War instead of Russian-Ukrainian War? – Treetoes023 ( talk) 22:23, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
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I want to note the foreign support of Ukraine at the front of the page, in order to make it more user friendly and easier to note and realize ByzantineIsNotRoman ( talk) 19:50, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
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I propose that the section about the first phase of the Russo-Ukrainian war (untill February 2015) be split into a separate page called first phase of the Russo-Ukrainian war or 2014 Russian invasion of Ukraine or 2014 Russian military intervention in Ukraine or Russian invasion of Crimea adn Donbas or propose your name. See also [30]. These sections are large and well-sourced enough to make its own page.
This page is about the whole war from 2014 till now. We have an article about the full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine, but it was the second invasion of this war. The first was in 2014, and information about it is scattered between Russo-Ukrainian War, Timeline of the war in Donbas (2014), Timeline of the annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation and others. Skovl ( talk) 18:36, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
Articles exist for Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation and War in Donbas (2014–2022).See here for notice. WP:A10 is an article that duplicates an existing topic. There is no reasonable reason to have an article 2014 Russian invasion of Crimea and Donbas when we have Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation and War in Donbas (2014–2022). Cinderella157 ( talk) 00:34, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
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the general tone of the article is biased towards Ukraine 87.212.196.214 ( talk) 09:40, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
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change A. Zakharchenko to A. Zakharchenko X Sergey Aksyonov ( talk) 02:53, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
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change
A. Zakharchenko
(2014–2018) to
A. Zakharchenko
†
(2014–2018)
Sergey Aksyonov (
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01:02, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
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it is also proved that Russian troops carried out the looting of world cultural property
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/01/14/these-are-some-of-the-most-famous-ukrainian-works-of-art-looted-by-russia/?sh=323dfd989b77 Dmytro1888UAZOV1888 ( talk) 07:39, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
Despite the war starting on the 20th of February, 2 days before the ousting of Yanukovych, the Revolution wasn’t part of the war. We should remove that image. TankDude2000 ( talk) 08:40, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
The prices have recovered to pre-war levels. 90.156.66.120 ( talk) 07:47, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
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Add Iran as supporter of Russia in belligerents section. There are already 5 sources in the "international relations" section confirming this. Hholdenday ( talk) 14:00, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
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There are still debates on whether the invasion of Crimea (the start of the Russo-Ukrainian War) started on February 20 or 23, so I guess that we should replace February 20 with February 20/23. WikiManUser21 ( talk) 17:33, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
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Czello (
music)
17:37, 10 May 2023 (UTC)Hi RadioactiveBoulevardier, could you explain the issues you have with this edit?
In his speech justifying the invasion of Ukraine, Putin falsely claimed that NATO military infrastructure was being built up inside Ukraine and was a threat to Russia.- This is in line with the sources and is surely an important thing to mention, as it was one of Putin's main excuses for invading.
NATO says it is not at war with Russia; its official policy is that it does not seek confrontation with Russia, but rather its members support Ukraine in "its right to self-defense, as enshrined in the UN Charter".If one party is accusing another of starting a war, I think it's important to mention what the other party has to say about that. My wording closely follows what the source says.
Russian leaders described this expansion as a violation of Western powers' informal assurances that NATO would not expand eastward→
Putin claimed Western powers broke promises that NATO would not let any Eastern European countries join- This is more in line with the sources. Also "NATO expansion" is a term used in Russian propaganda to imply military expansion/conquest. The more neutral term is enlargement.
Thanks. – Asarlaí ( talk) 08:40, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
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Due to the lack of independent reporters on the ground - or first-hand reports from the battlefield - perhaps Wikipedia could/should question some of the more notorious Washington-backed media outfits and much of their wilder/more outrageous claims of anti-Russian human rights abuses? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.27.2.24 ( talk) 16:51, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
But do you not people understand that, while US media might not be DIRECTLY state controlled - it does tend the follow the Govt/corporate line? Given that this line in strongly anti-Russian, is it little suprise that nation/corporate media outlets tend to reflect this line in their 'reporting'? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.27.2.24 ( talk) 17:25, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
But does not that miss the point that, here in the UK, most media outlets take their lead from the US corporate media and Govt? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.27.2.24 ( talk) 17:38, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
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"Ukrainian forces have also been accused of committing various war crimes, including mistreatment of detainees, though on a much smaller scale than Russian forces." ? 151.36.12.52 ( talk) 12:26, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
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Change "the Euromaidan protests" to "the far-right U.S.-backed Euromaidan protests" [31] Chances last a finite time ( talk) 13:40, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
avowedly partisanwith a focus on
political commentary and opinionrather than on
news report[ing]in this discussion. Hence, the warning on WP:RSP to consider both NPOV and due weight when using the source. This is even more a concern when considering applying contentious labels which should be avoided without a wide consensus between sources and even then be applied with in-text attribution, rather than in wikivoice. Mr rnddude ( talk) 14:21, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
Editors should take care to adhere to the neutral point of view policy when using Jacobin as a source in articles, for example by quoting and attributing statements that present its authors' opinions, and ensuring that due weight is given to their perspective amongst others'.Including a contentious statement based on a partisan source is not due weight. — Czello ( music) 14:34, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
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ScottishFinnishRadish (
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13:44, 23 May 2023 (UTC)Given that information contained within this article points to American meddling in the internal affairs of the Ukraine, is it not reasonable to mention how the "US-Backed, Far Right–Led Revolution in Ukraine Helped Bring Us to the Brink of War"? For while the "American agents of influence would prefer different language to describe their activities — democratic assistance, demooocracy promotion, civil society support, etc", are there not indications that their (dirty) work, however labeled, "seeks to influence political change in Ukraine"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.27.2.85 ( talk) 18:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
Based on the amount of drone, microchips and body armour that have been donated from Iran to Russia, and even the fact that they have sent actual troops to help with drone operation. I think it would be justified to add Iran to the "Supported by" section in the belligerents on the russian side
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/iran-sent-troops-ukraine-help-russia-use-iranian-made-drones-biden-adm-rcna53277#:~:text=The%20U.S.%20has%20evidence%20that,Biden%20administration%20officials%20said%20Thursday. Source for Iranian troops sent to the war Hholdenday ( talk) 19:40, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
Basically completely wrong page there were no russian war against ukraine. You can say easily that the war was USA vs Ukraine because usa trained a lot of ukraine militaries during this time. Why it’s not saying anything about massacre in Donetsk ? Bombing civil houses by ukranian army and killing a lot of civil people in donetsk and Luhansk ? Navi86 ( talk) 07:03, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
Since people do not tend to talk about an 'Independent' France, Germany or USA, why are is this word being used in relation to the Ukraine? If the article is to be considered natural, should it not avoid questionable or loaded terms? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.151.2.120 ( talk) 19:01, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
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correct the start of the Russian and Ukrainian war, separating Crimea annexation as it misleads making people think the war started back in 2014. 84.65.90.61 ( talk) 15:27, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
Can something be said about the possible impact of the drone attacks on Moscow? For, together with German panzers being sent to the Eastern Front, such attacks can only prove to the Russian people that their their country is in real danger. That said, how are people world-wide to view such attacks? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.151.2.82 ( talk) 11:22, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
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The article is also overly protected by admins who add original-research information to this website. Like since when has the period from 2014 until 2022 been referred to as the Russo ukrainian war? There was 0 fighting between russia and ukraine during that whole period aside from clashes which killed only 500 RUSSIANS during the whole 8 year period. Literally all media sources use this article’s name for the post-2022 invasion (not gonna include sources, i think you can use common sense and go google that name and see the sources for yourself). This is a huge problem, because pro-putinists sometimes use the argument that ukraine has been bombing ethnic russians since 2014 and this article and its naming could be used to support their argument. It should be renamed back to “Russian involvement in the War in Donbass (2014–2022)” or, Ukraine crisis (2014–2015 or 2022) (BTW, this article is just a copy and paste of War in Donbass (2014–2022) except other not very related events were put together into one so called “war”. If this huge war somehow begun all the way back in 2014 then i must’ve had a lobotomy done on me without me knowing. 88.245.197.160 ( talk) 17:32, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
since Ukraine is obviously supported by these countries and some of their military equipment, those of the United States in particular, are used by Anti-Putin groups; in the spirit of unbiasness & accurate reporting isn't this a fair move? 41.116.40.211 ( talk) 13:23, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
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Should the Freedom of Russia Legion be added to the belligerents? TheCalmEAK ( talk) 07:55, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
'Russian public opinion...
...According to some sources, a reason many Russians supported the "special military operation" has to do with the propaganda and disinformation'.
So it would seem that the only 'propaganda and disinformation' is that put out by Moscow, and that Washington would hardly ever use media outlets push an anti-Russian agenda? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.166.199 ( talk) 13:26, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
The Russian invasion of Ukraine violated
international law (including the
Charter of the United Nations).
This sentence is supported by nothing but newspaper editorials. No international body has formally investigated and determined that a breach of statute has occurred. This statement certainly does not follow NPOV, and it may be defamatory as well. I would remove it myself, but (surprise surprise) pro-Ukrainian and pro-US Wikipedia editors have locked the article.
2600:1700:6730:F090:58C2:70AD:C99F:2ADA (
talk)
09:39, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
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Russo is not a country name, please change name or delete article 85.249.163.121 ( talk) 19:18, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
The OP seems to be based on a lack of understanding of English and appropriate prefix demonyms in compounded words such as this title. WP:CIR applies. Explanation has bee given. I don't see any point in keeping this discussion open. Cinderella157 ( talk) 02:00, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
OK I am out, if the IP wants to use racist slurs that sums it up. No we should not change the name to an insult. Slatersteven ( talk) 09:17, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
Why there is no information about minks agreement and request from russia to protect people in donents es and lughansk in 2014-2022? Minsk agreements 62.217.186.162 ( talk) 12:58, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
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War started in 2022,if you think differnt than please provide link from 2014-2021 where any sources saying that war started between ukraine and russian before 02.2022 62.217.186.162 ( talk) 12:34, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
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That abbreviation is spreading hate and my suggestion to rename to khohol was considered as racists. However, russo is racist slang for russian speakers as well. If you think that russo is common abbreviation that provide link to russian sources when russian people talk about themselves as russo. moreover russo means Russo (surname) 62.217.186.162 ( talk) 12:31, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
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War started in 2022, if you think it started in 2014 then add official resources 85.249.163.121 ( talk) 19:15, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
Sources 2014
Sources 2015
[ [45]]
This needs closing. Slatersteven ( talk) 13:50, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
The comment could be made that Wagner and other private militias on the Russian side are not acting independently and are just part of Russia. However, the Freedom Russian Legion and the Russian Volunteer Corps are taking part in the war, while being independent from any of the armies. 84.125.94.214 ( talk) 06:32, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
Given the revolt by Wagner in the last 24 hours, should Wagner be included in the belligerents list now? How has Wikipedia previously handled other mercenary revolts throughtout history? 2001:56A:7130:8700:FD4A:AD7E:689D:B682 ( talk) 16:21, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
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Why is the Russian opposition not written in this Infobox even though it is written as hostile in other articles in Infobox? Parham wiki ( talk) 11:15, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
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Add
Russian opposition (from 2022) to infobox, Russian opposition due to
2022–2023 Belarusian and Russian partisan movement Including the
2023 Belgorod Oblast incursions, the
Wagner Group rebellion (In the article
Opposition to Vladimir Putin in Russia#2023 Wagner rebellion, the Wagner Group rebellion is part of the Russian opposition.), and the
Anti-war protests in Russia (2022–present) should be added as hostile.
Parham wiki (
talk)
09:25, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
Not done for now: please establish a
consensus for this alteration
before using the
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Xan747 (
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23:21, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
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I want to add casuality numbers released for Russian side as cited below.
Two independent Russian media outlets, Mediazona and Meduza, working with a data scientist from Germany’s Tübingen University. APT141 ( talk) 12:14, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
Belarus only supported the invasion so remove Lukashenko in the infobox. Parham wiki ( talk) 11:09, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
Should we keep the hyphen in the title or change it to a dash? WikipedianRevolutionary ( talk) 19:38, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
Should we change Ukrainian crisis in the first sentence to Ukraine crisis? I mean, that’s how most sources reffered to it in the beginning. WikipedianRevolutionary ( talk) 12:38, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
We should change this page to War in Ukraine. It’s the most common title (most sources use it) and it’s also neutral (Ukraine reffers it to “Russo-Ukrainian War”, while Russia reffers it to “Special Military Operation in Ukraine” or something like that.) WikipedianRevolutionary ( talk) 18:53, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
I think the
Russian opposition (from 2022) should be added to infobox, Russian opposition due to
2022–2023 Belarusian and Russian partisan movement Including the
2023 Belgorod Oblast incursions, the
Wagner Group rebellion (In the article
Opposition to Vladimir Putin in Russia#2023 Wagner rebellion, the Wagner Group rebellion is part of the Russian opposition.), and the
Anti-war protests in Russia (2022–present) should be added as hostile.
Parham wiki (
talk)
00:43, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
@
Edward-Woodrow: I mean write this in the infobox (it shouldn't be in "supported by:" like Belarus):
Ukraine
Russian opposition (from 2022)
Parham wiki (
talk)
07:57, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
This heading suggests that the USA is separate from NATO.It is an integral part of the alliance and the heading should reflect that by stating just NATO. The contribution of each ally can turn be detailed in the body of the article. 2A00:23C7:D38A:8B01:25BB:A435:E33A:A6F6 ( talk) 10:13, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
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Add North Korea to the belligerents on Russia’s side. They have officially joined the war in Ukraine. 82.132.186.20 ( talk) 21:35, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
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Kyiv Bans Import of Russian Books
As reported by REUTERS - and highlighted in todays I newspaper - the Ukrainian President has just signed a new law banning the import of books from Russia. Together with reports of the banning of Russian in Ukrainian schools, the negative effects of such laws must be of real concern. For what next, the Burning of the (Russia) Books? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.166.130 ( talk) 18:29, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
Okay, while Wikipedia is not a Talking Shop, is not the Banning of the Books an issue of some concern? Given this, might not the full impact of such laws on the Russians living within the Ukraine be highlighted? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.166.153 ( talk) 18:54, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
Then again, if Wikipedia is to avoid pushing a one-sided point or view, should it not highlight reports that the Ukraine Govt is eliminating Russian-language education for Russians, and is imposing anti-Russian re-education on Ukrainian children? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.166.130 ( talk) 09:10, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
Bans/Banning:
the gays from Admiral Kostyukov. Banned. Discussion about the war in Ukraine. In German . For example . Support the Topic: "It is not necessary to morganize (assert - an absolute necessity) Ukraine". Support / Discussionis not possible.
I’ve started a discussion about coverage of WMD in the conflict at Talk:Russian invasion of Ukraine#WMD. — Michael Z. 17:20, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
The related image appears in the collage in the infobox.
Russian-backed forces during the Donbas warwith the edit summary: "NPOV: "Proxy" makes for a very loaded descriptor, doesn't make sense to use it in the captions when the rest of the lead seems pretty consistent with "pro-Russian" as the preferred term instead" [46]
There are a number of reasons why the use of proxy in the caption Russian proxy forces during the Donbas war is inappropriate.
easily understood language(ie plain English and, per WP:TONE:
the article should not be written using argot, slang, colloquialisms, doublespeak, legalese, or jargon.
The caption should be changed to "Russian-backed forces during the Donbas war". The lead should be change as follows:
Per the body of the article, In 2015, Russian separatist forces were estimated to number around 36,000 troops (compared to 34,000 Ukrainian), of whom 8,500–10,000 were Russian soldiers. Additionally, around 1,000 GRU troops were operating in the area.[158] Another 2015 estimate held that Ukrainian forces outnumbered Russian forces 40,000 to 20,000.[159] In 2017, on average one Ukrainian soldier died in combat every three days,[160] with an estimated 6,000 Russian and 40,000 separatist troops in the region.
[Line of conflict stabilizes (2015–2021) section] It is clear that Ukraine continued to face both Russian and separist forces in the Donbas.
Cinderella157 (
talk)
00:41, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
The primary issue here is the use of proxy in the subject caption. The main issue is that it is ambiguously used but also, it is neither supported nor explained by this iteration of the article in the body of the article. We should be using WP:PLAINENGLISH - that is unambiguous and readily understood. Russian-backed separatist forces or Russian-controlled separatist forces are descriptions that are unambiguous and readily understood. Consequently, the caption should be replaced. A second issue arises from the use of proxies in the lead where the normal meaning of this is one that acts for and in the absence of another. The Russians have been present since near the start of the war. The term is not being used consistent with its usual meaning. While some sources may use the term to describe the separatists as proxies, there is nuance to how and why they use this description which is neither supported by nor explained in this iteration of the body of the article. Again, we should be using plain English. While I do not dispute that sources would describe the separatists as Russian controlled, it is again, something that is neither supported by nor explained in this iteration of the body of the article - as far as I can see. An article must be contained within itself. If we are to say this, then the article needs to be modified. At the very least, we would need a citation to a good quality source where it is stated - this is, after all, a claim that could be seen as exceptional. Cinderella157 ( talk) 09:36, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
Shouldn't at least 1 other show something WP:DUEly relevant to Ukraine? Maybe them defending inside a building or something? It seems like too much of a focus on one party in a war for an infobox, I think it would be better to add two images than replace one DarmaniLink ( talk) 19:01, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
Pro-Ukrainian Wikipedia editors should be careful here. For might not such images be useful in highlighting UN reports about the way Ukrainian forces have used civilian building as fire bases? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.166.182 ( talk) 14:12, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
While keen to keep its' troops out of harms way, the US is willing to spend billions on arms, training and other aid to maintain the conflict in the Ukraine. Given this, might there not be a section called: 'US Support for a Proxy War'?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.110.75.83 ( talk • contribs)
The Donbas War was a Russian proxy war in the sense that Russians working for the Kremlin came to Ukraine and started it, the Kremlin had overall control of its forces there from April or May 2014, and its “New Russia” project had too little local support to continue fighting using solely its irregular cadrés and local proxies, so was forced to send in mechanized formations from August 2014 to February 2015 to keep from watching them get pushed to the Russian border.
Since February 2022, it is not a proxy war in this sense, that it exists only due to a foreign power’s influence, at all. Russia openly invaded, is integrating the “DLNR” forces into its own (using them up in meatwaves and bulking them up with mobiks), and is forcibly changing the demographic composition of the territories it occupied before and since the invasion (accused of genocide, and its head of state a fugitive rom justice).
Ukrainians led by their elected government stopped the Russian invasion before they were provided anything more than insurgency weapons, and many sources predict they would have and still would continue fighting with no foreign support at all.
It might be considered a proxy war by some reliable sources in the sense that 70 states are aiding Ukraine against an adversary. This is a weaker and less clear sense of the word, and it is not what Russian, anti-Ukrainian, “anti-globalist,” and US isolationist propaganda mean when they use this word. I suspect it’s not used this way by many of them, because of its wide misuse, and because it means radically different things when referring to Russian proxy forces and the Ukrainians, and its use risks confusing issues and playing into the hands of Kremlin propagandists and their fellow travellers.
Because the term is loaded and ambiguous, it should probably be glossed on first use, especially when used to refer to aid to Ukraine. I think this article needs to address this question head-on by explaining changing views on the Russian role (e.g., what RS used to label “occupied by Russian-backed separatists” on maps is now labelled “Russian occupied before February 24, 2022.”. — Michael Z. 23:49, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
at the instigation or on behalf of). A Kenyan, Nigerian or Indian newspaper might be a highly reliable source for events in that respective country, but still not fit for use in this article, see WP:RSCONTEXT and the following sections. Also, we have far better sources than just news. I personally recommend Andreas Kappeler, Serhii Plokhy, and Timothy Snyder, all of them high-profile historians who cover the war in their recent publications, demonstrating that Ukraine is fighting for its existence as a nation, and not at the instigation or on behalf of anybody else. Rsk6400 ( talk) 06:52, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
a section called: 'US Support for a Proxy War'
, as Essex IP had suggested?The decline in Hong Kong's ranking on the Press Freedom Index published annually by Reporters Without Borders has been vertiginous: it stood at 148th in 2022, having dropped 68 places from the year prior; it ranked 71st place in 2015, from our article on Censorship in Hong Kong. Please note that the RfC pre-dates the drop. A quick perusal normally is not enough for judging the quality of a paper. The people who control the Chinese media are often quite intelligent and know the tricks, like selecting those news that seem to support their ideology and suppressing the other ones, even adding some news that seem to contradict their normal views to gain credibility, and so on. The Chinese government is a close ally of Russia, so they are taking active interest in Ukraine, and they certainly don't like the idea that a revolution could topple an authoritarian regime and lead to a democracy. Rsk6400 ( talk) 06:40, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
Then again, within Washington, does there not remain a number of would-be Rambows that cannot admit the cold war is over? For they retain an interest in waging any kind of warfare, or using any tactics, to undermine Russia (or any other national that stands in their way). While not willing to allow American troops to kill and be killed, are not these latter-day Dr Strange Loves more than wiling to let the Ukrainians die for their aims? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.166.182 ( talk) 16:17, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
if I understand you correctly, because they allegedly ...Wrong again. What I wanted to point out is that we don't count reliable sources, but that we carefully weigh "[E]ach source ... to judge whether it is reliable for the statement being made", see WP:RSCONTEXT. A high-profile scholar is better than a newspaper and a newspaper with expertise on Ukraine is better than one without. If you have good (i.e. as good as the scholars I mentioned or better) sources calling the war a "proxy war", feel free to present them. Rsk6400 ( talk) 15:48, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
Note it does not matter if we can find definitions of proxy war that fit this, we need RS saying it is a proxy war, not our
wp:or.
Slatersteven (
talk)
10:09, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
There are chechen groups in ukraine fighting against the russians [1] [2], so you can guys add "Chechen volunteers" in the interface? Jaztie não é árabe ( talk) 23:04, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
References
Please provide input at the subject discussion. The question arises because supported by is now deprecated. Cinderella157 ( talk) 01:04, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
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Due to the
2023 Tver plane crash in which Yevgeny Prigozhin is presumed dead, the infobox should be updated to reflect that. I assume this would be done by adding a {{PKIA}}
right after his name in on the Commanders section, or whatever classification is applicable as I cannot find any documentation for what to use in a situation like this.
Condenser
Coil
17:58, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
{{
Edit extended-protected}}
template.
M.Bitton (
talk)
12:01, 28 August 2023 (UTC)It isn’t a proposition for edits, but I want to ask people’s opinions on what exactly happened here. Like what is it the largest factor leading to Russia invading Ukraine. I am of the opinion that NATO expansion is the largest factor, but I don’t want to get stuck in an echo chamber. Velockies ( talk) 13:45, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Procedural close. According to WP:GS/RUSUKR only extended-confirmed users may start this kind of discussion. ( non-admin closure) Rsk6400 ( talk) 16:55, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
Russo-Ukrainian War → Russo–Ukrainian War – Relation is indicated with an en dash (e.g. Soviet–Afghan War), not a hyphen. ― Ö S M A N ( talk · contribs) 13:32, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
At the same time as President Volodymyr Zelensky sacks "every regional head of recruitment", BBC News reports that the Ukraine "constantly needs to replace the tens of thousands who've been killed or injured in the war."
However, while some men don't want to fight, thousands "have left the country, sometimes after bribing officials, and others are finding ways of dodging recruitment officers."
Give this latest news, have Wikipedia any plans for a section on Ukrainian causality and recruitment problems?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.166.181 ( talk • contribs)
This is likely not appropriate for this main article unless it becomes more serious and significant. However, you’re welcome to make the request at Talk:Russian invasion of Ukraine or Talk:2023 Ukrainian counteroffensive. RadioactiveBoulevardier ( talk) 18:36, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
The word 'conflict' in the very first words of this great article imply that we don't talk about the reality: an invasion', an 'agression', an 'unprovoked attack' 2A02:A03F:6159:7500:413B:7639:F85E:B4BF ( talk) 21:24, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
What about calling it a Conflict on Russia's Doorstep? For, despite promises not to, NATO continues to move it's bases ever-closer to Russia. With such an hostile move, is it any wonder that the Russians view the actions of NATO with more than a little concern? Consider how the US reacted then the USSR placed missiles is Cuba. For are we saying/admitting that it is okay for the US to have Areas of National Interest around the globe - but no one else? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.166.232 ( talk) 16:14, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
@ RadioactiveBoulevardier: The third thing I forgot to mention was that Yevgeny Prigozhin removed the Wagner group from Ukraine before his death. Such a procedure was implemented for John F. Kennedy in the Bay of Pigs invasion and Template was not used. Parham wiki ( talk) 11:14, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
@ Cinderella157 reverted [54] my edit to the lead with the edit summary “what does that really mean?,” where I had changed the definition of one side in the conflict from #1 to #2:
Russia alongside Russian-backed separatists
Russia exerting de-facto control over Russian-backed separatists
The problem with #1 is that Russia hasn’t been fighting alongside anyone for the duration of this conflict, and to say so represents an extremely non-neutral POV.
The article states “By April 2014, Russian citizens had taken control of the separatist movement, supported by volunteers and materiel from Russia, including Chechen and Cossack fighters.” Recent sources describe the non-government-controlled territory as “Russian-occupied before February 2022” or similar. The Dutch court found that the Russian-led militants were under “overall control” of Russia by mid May of 2014. Plokhy 2023, The Russo-Ukrainian War, says:
The source then describes how Russia started using Tornado rocket launchers July 13, started shooting down Ukrainian aviation with heavy AD missiles July 14, etcetera.
Russia wasn’t “alongside” any militants: it controlled them, and fought directly in Ukraine with its own mechanized forces, early on. The lead should reflect the reality. — Michael Z. 02:54, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
“Alongside separatists” is incorrect. Were there both Russians and Russian-backed separatists [from Ukraine] fighting against Ukrainians? The answer is yes. The statement is accurate. What does
exerting de-facto control overmean? De-facto would be redundant and the conclusions you would be citing do not find that the separatists were always under Russian control. There is a net defecit to readability by the edit with no mitigating benefit. Cinderella157 ( talk) 04:24, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
Thank you. Is it too soon to now discuss rephrasing “and supported pro-Russian separatists fighting the Ukrainian military”? This makes it sound like Ukrainian separatists started a war and Russia sent them money and Amazon deliveries. But Russians started the shooting war, Russia soon controlled the militants, Russian mercenaries and mechanized formations of the RAF fought in it. It was exclusively an international conflict, and not a civil war or both. — Michael Z. 17:43, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
Can someone with edit permissions, in section History > War in the Donbas > Mariupol offensive and first Minsk ceasefire, change the sentence:
to
98.207.204.157 ( talk) 15:52, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
Considering Russian military losses are almost 300,000, Ukraine's not much less, and all the civilian casualties, isn't it time to revise the absurdity that is 'tens of thousands' of deaths resulting from this hideous war?
There were 'tens of thousands' of deaths just in-and-around Mariupol last year. 2A02:2378:102E:78D5:F5E0:C158:5A3B:C0CF ( talk) 18:58, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
I suggest changing Belligerents to Main belligerents in infobox because Iran, Belarus (some argue that Belarus is a belligerent and cited a source), Wagner group, Chechen Republic of Ichkeria, Black Brigade Bridge and many partisan groups are not in infobox.
Parham wiki (
talk)
20:13, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
@ Slatersteven: What is your concern? Parham wiki ( talk) 13:33, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
Crimea's history as a territory of pre-Soviet Russia, as well as it's short-lived post-Soviet independence from either Russia or Ukraine that ended in 1994, I would say are an essential and fundamental part of understanding Russia's claim and attitude towards Crimea. I believe there should be at least one paragraph covering this under "Background," preceding all that is already written there. Isz Chepewéssin ( talk) 00:58, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
"Ukrainian forces have also been accused of committing various war crimes, including mistreatment of detainees, though on a much smaller scale than Russian forces" in the Human Rights Violations section, though sourced, goes against the guideline of maintaining a neutral stance. According to the source they gave, this is true. However Ukraine's human rights abuses are widely documented, including by the US State Department, Human Rights Watch, and Amnesty International. 50.247.119.46 ( talk) 09:10, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
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This original text: “…Russia had no plans to occupy the country. Russian forces invaded Ukraine. The invasion was…”
Should be changed to: “…Russia had no plans to occupy the country. Russian forces subsequently invaded Ukraine. The invasion was…”
The addition of “subsequently” improves the flow of the text. Miaguy13 ( talk) 03:03, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
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I would like to suggest the addition to the article in the section of "Human rights violations" a mention of the deliberate targeting of health care, which will likely top 1500 incidents in the extremely near future, or perhaps a small note about this, with a link to the article i maintain - /info/en/?search=Russian_strikes_on_hospitals_during_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine Kevin3452 ( talk) 21:30, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
Only extended-confirmed editors may make edits related to the topic area. The talk namespace is the only area you may edit in, and without engaging in project internal discussions. This isn't your fault, an EC page lock hasn't been placed on the page, and I don't see the edits presently made as being disruptive, but you should be notified of the restriction nonetheless. Mr rnddude ( talk) 00:09, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
The redirect
2014 Ukraine crisis has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 February 21 § 2014 Ukraine crisis until a consensus is reached.
Yorkporter (
talk)
21:09, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
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Adding Romania to the spill-overs, like Poland, as dozens of drones and missiles hit the Romanian territory. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66727788 Mariusx12 ( talk) 17:10, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
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Adding "Romania" to the locations in the infobox, after Poland and before Moldova as i told before but i explained it wrong, thank you for the understanding. Sources: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66727788
https://www.politico.eu/article/nato-romania-accuses-russia-of-irresponsible-escalation-over-drone-crash/ Mariusx12 ( talk) 15:36, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
https://www.wsj.com/world/ukraine-is-now-fighting-russia-in-sudan-87caf1d8
WSJ reports Ukrainian forces combatting Russian Contractors in Sudan. This is corroborated by videos and media released by Ukraine. Could this mean Sudan gets added to the ‘Location’ section? Maxttck ( talk) 22:29, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
Not conflict. Children are bombarded also. Women, families. It is unfair. Thanks for correcting your title. Youth will remember you for a very long time. Pottier2023 ( talk) 17:08, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
This war started in 2022, not 2014. Donbas war ignited from 2014-15 and afterwards there was a frozen conflict involving russian-armed rebels with ceasefire violations in which only a few hundred russian soldiers died which does not even constitute a war but rather a small scale direct russian intervention. The real full-scale war started after 2022 and every single source says this, i don’t even need to provide sources as it is common sense 78.174.190.122 ( talk) 08:02, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
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Archive 15 | ← | Archive 19 | Archive 20 | Archive 21 | Archive 22 |
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Russo-Ukrainian War → Russia-Ukraine War – The previous title was proposed by a sockpuppet and approved with four votes in the summer of 2020 ( see discussion), but the name "Russo-Ukrainian War" is not in use today. We should change the article title to Russia-Ukraine War, which is the WP:COMMONNAME, and which would be consistent with the names of similar articles.
Wikipedia article title policy generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources) as such names will usually best fit the five criteria
that guide article title discussions. Below is a list of independent, reliable English-language sources which show an overwhelming preference for "Russia-Ukraine War":
Furthermore, within the conflicts of List of wars: 2003–present that feature two parties to the conflict in their title, only 8 are in adjectival form, [3] whereas 15 articles are in proper noun form. [4] We should make the current title WP:CONSISTENT with the majority of other articles titles by preferring "Russia-Ukraine War" over "Russo-Ukrainian War". Pilaz ( talk) 15:28, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
*Support per extremely well sourced and researched nomination. Although the large majority of sources do indeed support the nomination, there is a considerable minority of sources that support the existing main title header form. Ultimately, since this is the header of a Wikipedia article, the deciding factor is the nomination's final argument of
WP:CONSISTENT. The nominated form is the one that predominates in Wikipedia headers and the inconsistent forms are the ones that should be moved to reflect consistency. —
Roman Spinner
(talk •
contribs)
22:08, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
"Russian-Ukrainian war"
which will exclude many mentions like
Russian-Ukrainian economic war, maybe a searching for Russian-Ukrainian war OR conflict
would be more accurate (same as "Russian-Ukrainian" war OR conflict) --
Nilsol2 (
talk)
03:37, 9 March 2022 (UTC)familiar with, although not necessarily an expert in, the subject areaover than the current title. Both titles are precise enough to identify the topic, and are almost equally concise. As a result, applying the WP:CRITERIA leads me to affirmatively support the current title over the proposed title. — Mhawk10 ( talk) 18:12, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
References
All of them have supplied military systems to Ukraine according to Wikipedia map: /info/en/?search=2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#/media/File:Countries_supplying_military_equipment_to_Ukraine_during_the_2022_Russian_invasion.svg
For countries supporting Ukraine during the 2022 invasion, see 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine. For details of recent support we are deferring to articles on recent events rather than having this article being swamped by recent events that would tend to obscure the long-term events per WP:RECENT. If you are referring to earlier support, the body of the article should reflect the infobox per WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE. Please ensure that the body does indeed reflect any proposed change to the infobox for earlier support and edit accordingly. Cinderella157 ( talk) 03:06, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
For Ukraine, please change from: 4,619 killed 9,700–10,700 wounded 70 missing 2,768 captured 9,268 joined Russian forces after annexation 300+ T-64 tanks
To:
4,619 killed 9,700–10,700 wounded 70 missing 2,768 captured 9,268 joined Russian forces after annexation 1,041 tanks and other combat armored vehicles 98 Aircraft (3 Mil-25 helicopters) 118 UAV (5 Bayraktar TB-2 drones) 113 multiple rocket launchers 389 field artillery pieces and mortars 843 military motor vehicles
For Russia, you can check in the source.
I have been noting that a lot of western sources have not shown once destroyed Ukrainian equipment but have shown a lot of destroyed Russian equipment so far. Which makes the war look one side, and makes me ask why they need any help? Now it is hard to tell which equipment is Russian and which is Ukrainian as they both have some equipment form their Soviet Union days, but it makes it hard to get reliable data when both sides are using propaganda. Are we sure that any of our data is right, when it comes to lose? Hell are we sure that out map is right. So far, I can tell it better than some of the source that I know are propaganda, but are we sure? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.9.146.246 ( talk) 03:45, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
PGSINK ( talk) 10:41, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
Is there any evidence of Russian warships having been sunk?
Have any Russian or Belarus embassies been attacked? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 07:15, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
At least 20,000 foreign nationals from at least 52 countries have enlisted in the Ukrainian army in support of Ukraine to defend democracy. A recruitment website was set up since 05/03/2022. In response, Russia intends to send Chechens and Syrians (veterans from the Syrian civil war) to Ukraine. In effect, the Russo-Ukrainian War has technically turned into the Third World War (even if it is only contained in Ukraine). [3] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 06:54, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
Additionally, there is mention that the Polish-owned MiG fighter jets will probably be sent to Ukraine via Germany. [4]
A Ukrainian Foreign Legion has been set up and is currently in Ukraine. [5] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 07:34, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
Is Vladimir Putin preparing russia for nuclear war? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 08:29, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
I'd like to propose adding spillover into Belarus with this as a source. While there is dispute over who exactly is responsible, it does appear this is spillover from this conflict. Not adding the edit myself as I'm <500 contributions and I'm curious if this is WP:TOOSOON U-dble ( talk) 18:13, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
Has Poland closed its border/frontier with Belarus and have the Baltic States closed theirs with Russia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 08:33, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
Could a series of periodical war maps be displayed on the article page? These would be from Day 1 of the war till the present. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 08:43, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
This could be things like:- World economic price fluctuations; How the Russian oligarchs are trying to hide their assets; How squatters in London have broken into the Russian oligarchs homes and have invited Ukrainian refugees into them [6]; etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 14:30, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
References
You may want to add that China is supporting Russia's economy by buying a huge amount of oil.
Cyclon33ee91 ( talk) 22:41, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
Is the current Russo Ukrainian War a continuation of the Soviet-Ukrainian War (1917-1921)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 12:59, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
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2601:985:801:2070:459:5E35:483E:EF0 ( talk) 23:07, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
Russian casualties 498
I'm having some issues verifying claims made in a large section under /info/en/?search=Russo-Ukrainian_War#Pro-Russian_unrest
Here are the paragraphs in question:
The initial protests across southern and eastern Ukraine were largely native expressions of discontent with the new Ukrainian government. [1] Russian involvement at this stage was limited to voicing support for the demonstrations, and the emergence of the separatists in Donetsk and Luhansk began as a small fringe group of protesters, independent of Russian control. [1] [2] Russia would go on to take advantage of this, however, to launch a co-ordinated political and military campaign against Ukraine, as part of the broader Russo-Ukrainian War. [1] [3] Putin gave legitimacy to the nascent separatist movement when he described the Donbas as part of the historic " New Russia" (Novorossiya) region, and issued a statement of bewilderment as how the region had ever become part of Ukraine in 1922 with the foundation of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic. [4]
When the Ukrainian authorities cracked down on the pro-Russian protests and arrested local separatist leaders in early March, these were replaced by people with ties to the Russian security services and interests in Russian businesses, probably by order of Russian intelligence. [5] By April 2014, Russians citizens had taken control of the separatist movement, and were supported by volunteers and materiel from Russia, including Chechen and Cossack militants. [6] [7] [8] [9] According to DPR insurgent commander Igor Girkin, without this support in April, the movement would have fizzled out, as in it did in Kharkiv and Odessa. [10]
The first reference [1] is a US-Military sponsored document that contains no evidence itself. It has many references, but they are all opinion articles; yet it is being treated as fact, in many places throughout the page
The second reference [2] is appropriate and less biased, and should probably be used instead, where appropriate
The third reference [3] is alongside a claim that "Russia would go on to take advantage of this, however, to launch a co-ordinated political and military campaign against Ukraine, as part of the broader Russo-Ukrainian War". However, the summary of the article alone is that "Putin's power play in Ukraine was impulsive and improvised, without any clear sense of the desired end state. After many months of effort, Russia has achieved limited gains, but at high cost". I feel it's disingenuous to use that as a reference implying that the campaign was co-ordinated, when the article seems to imply the opposite, but I suppose at that point it's just semantics.
The next problem is the first one again [5]. It is a reference for the claim "When the Ukrainian authorities cracked down on the pro-Russian protests and arrested local separatist leaders in early March, these were replaced by people with ties to the Russian security services and interests in Russian businesses, probably by order of Russian intelligence" - which seems like an unnecessary opinion in the entry with that 'probably'.
Additionally, only two names are mentioned during this change of leadership, and Igor Strelkov did indeed have ties with Russian Security Services, but Aleskandr Boroday did not. There are no sources listed when the reference claims, generically, "Ukrainian authorities removed the local political figureheads of the protest movement but, as a consequence, they were replaced by individuals with ties to Russian security services, military experience, and associations with business interests in Russia". While those claims are technically all true for Strelkov alone, it doesn't seem appropriate to imply they are true for others without evidence
Then we have the same reference [6], among three others, claiming "By April 2014, Russians citizens had taken control of the separatist movement, and were supported by volunteers and materiel from Russia, including Chechen and Cossack militants".
Additionally, none of the references mention Chechens at all, and only this questionable reference mentions Cossacks, and only as part of the baseline history - and with a source that is no longer valid.
They also mention only one Russian in a command position; of the four non-Ukrainians taking positions in the DPR, 3 were Moldovan/Transnistrian, not Russian - only Vladimir Antyufeyev is natively Russian, and the only former soviet officer among them
But most importantly, Vladimir Zakharchenko was still considered the 'Prime Minister' and 'commander-in-chief' - a locally born Donetsk resident. These articles imply that it is incorrect to claim that Russian citizens had taken control of the movement at that point
And finally, we have the last reference, same as the second [10], referring to the previous statement about Chechen/Cossack/Russian volunteers, paired with "According to DPR insurgent commander Igor Girkin, without this support in April, the movement would have fizzled out, as in it did in Kharkiv and Odessa"
However, the actual claim in the article is that "the storming of local SBU (security service) buildings that began on 6 April was inconclusive until Igor Girkin arrived with 52 fighters in Slov"ians'k in the north west of the Donbas on 12 April. Girkin (aka Strelkov) himself later stated that 'I was the one who pulled the trigger of the war. … If our unit hadn't crossed the border, everything would have fizzled out—like in Kharkiv, like in Odesa'"
The reference claims they entered Donbas from the north-west, near Sloviansk, implying that the soldiers he recruited were not Russian volunteers but came from within Ukraine. It is disingenuous to suggest the aforementioned Russian volunteers had anything to do with it, when Igor was referring to himself and his unit, and not any Russian support. (Also the grammar is bad, either way)
As a whole, I feel that anything based solely on the first reference [1] should be removed; it's an opinion piece, which cites only opinion articles, and contains no actual evidence. The US Military also has a vested interest in the conflict, resulting in significant potential bias or propaganda, especially if this is the only source that supports a claim. At the least, the statements made about it should be corrected to agree with the contents of the reference
The other references are mostly fine, but the claims they are paired with do not match those in the references, and there are many opinions within the page; I was only checking one very small section, but I suspect the page needs a lot of re-examining for the validity of references
I think it's very important to avoid definitive statements on the inconclusive topic of whether or not the protests were initially spurred by Russia; US and UE claims they were, Russia claims they were not, and there's no evidence of Russian national involvement (other than Crimea) until August 2014 - long after the protests. The context of everything else is dramatically different, depending on whether or not the protests were legitimate and done by Ukrainians due to dissatisfaction with the new regime, or if they were instigated by Russia as part of a bigger takeover
Obviously, if you do find good references, just add those and call it a day; I haven't been able to, but I'm no expert. Just trying to dig out some real info, and was quite disappointed that none of these statements were really provably factual
Dimencia ( talk) 08:52, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
References
Should we add the total number of causalities with the totes number causalities of the Invasion of Ukraine? BigRed606 ( talk) 07:50, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
Why are non-EU/NATO countries that have materially supplied Ukraine not listed in the infobox? -- Ugly Ketchup ( talk) 18:29, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
Should the claims about this being the start of WW3 be added https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/world-war-iii-may-already-started-russian-invasion-zelenskyy-says-rcna19967 https://thehill.com/policy/international/598459-zelensky-world-war-iii-may-have-already-started https://www.foxnews.com/world/ukraine-president-zelenskyy-warns-ww-iii-may-have-already-started https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10620665/Zelensky-says-World-War-Three-started.html https://www.businessinsider.com/zelenskyy-russian-invasion-could-lead-to-start-of-wwiii-2022-3 Persesus ( talk) 04:00, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
Now, argue over this all you want but here are the links
Russo-Ukrainian War, since the start of 2022
"Ukraine War", since the start of 2022
and here are my points
DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT SUGGESTING TO RENAME OR MOVE THIS ARTICLE WITHOUT FIRST ANALYZING THESE RS
·None of the RS naming this war are newer than 2018 when the conflict was in a different stage. Claim WP:RECENTISM if you wish, but the on-wiki nomenclature of the city of Kyiv itself is based upon a movement that was started in 2018 and completed in 2020, so I think it's fair to start looking for more recent articles naming this conflict.
·This article's handling of who is at play in this war is inconsistent and I think it's fair to say that it is no longer simply an affair between Russia and Ukraine, and that is most definitely a recent change, which would be made clearer if this war were either compartmentalized with the Crimea-Donbas portion of the war in one part and the Invasion in another, or if this entire war is renamed and focus on the ongoing conflict continues in the infobox.
· This source draws comparison to the Russo-Georgian War and draws attention to the fact that Georgia's conflict with Russian proxies began well before the 2008 invasion, much like Ukraine's conflict with Russian proxies began well before the 2022 invasion, BUT Wikipedia currently holds that the Russo-Georgian War only lasted 10 days, post-invasion, where as the Russo-Ukrainian War includes 8 years of pre-invasion conflict. Holding the current name in context with other conflicts of the same type appears to cause an interruption in consistency.
·The term "Russo-Ukrainian War" is just not that widely used by the press, it's being preferred for "Russia-Ukraine War" or other more popular titles, while I know this is not how WP naming conventions work, I think that it's possible that we could re-evaluate this title, which was given in 2014 and only supported by articles prior to 2018.
I AM AWARE THAT MY FINDINGS AREN'T CONCRETE and I can see that a lot of the results in my second link are from a single journal, as well as the mix-in of some articles which include the term "Russia-Ukraine War". But as it stands, it would appear more recent articles appearing use the term "Ukraine War" in place of "Russo-Ukrainian War". So I'm not trying to mislead anyone, just give some feedback that may help keep this article from spiraling into a mess lest this escalate once more into an even wider conflict. It's already affecting this country I live in.
Icepunchies ( talk) 10:12, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
Just weeks before ordering the invasion of Ukraine, Vladimir Putin survived at assassination attempt. Shaken to the core, Putin ordered that anybody remotely suspected to be involved in the plot (eg military officials/bureaucrats/oligarchs/etc) to be secretly executed in a " Stalinist-style" purge said an expert linked to American espionage services. However, the mastermind behind the assassination plan - believed to be a multibillionaire businessman - slipped through Putin's net and is now somewhere in western Europe under the protection of the French foreign spy service, the DGSE.
The motive was that this "cabal" weren't happy with the state of the Russian economy even before the invasion. According to the expert, the Kremlin conspirators attempted to assassinate Putin by coating a sleeve of his judo jacket with the nerve agent Novichok, but the assassination attempt collapsed when Putin's judo partner put on the poison-laced jacket by mistake.
Putin was so shaken that he now won't let anyone close which is why one sees those images of him sitting at one end of a 40-foot table and his "visitors" sitting at the other end. Western intelligence services still don't know the extent of Putin's purges. It is said that Putin often rewatches (in a continuous loop) the 2011 assassination of Libyan dictator, Muammar Gaddafi.
Putin has walled himself off from the outside world and only speaks with those who don't dare tell him anything other than what he wants to hear. He's living in a delusional shell of fear and suspicion. He's bet everything on success in Ukraine. If Putin loses the war, he's finished. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 10:16, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
References
Should the Russophobia page be link in the related issues page since of what's been going on? Persesus ( talk) 04:57, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
Someone removed all the massive captured Russian soldiers from the casualty section, and has some outrageous edits claiming of 9,000+ joined Russian forces as though this was done willingly or that counts as a casualty, and also, source?
This is really not an accurate Wiki page with these edits in there, and the Russian Casualty counts are outlandishly low. Wiki Editors please wake up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.51.76.65 ( talk) 03:47, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
Armenia sent fighters with pilots and thus supported Russia AdelajdSikor ( talk) 19:30, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
Mr Bernhard von Vos. Has dedicated his entire adult life. For children. Maybe . He's a little disappointed. Why ?Boys and girls, Wikipedia users. For example from Ukraine. They ignore the website dedicated to the General Delegate for the Rights of the Child. Here if only! succeeded. The boys and girls from Wikipedia. To inspire – to write – to write with a dominant idea! Locksan ( talk) 10:35, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
Two non-existent states are listed as "belligerents" here (boxes on the right):
Donetsk PR Luhansk PR
These "states" only exist within what passes for the mind of the paranoid neurotic child-murderer squatting in the Kremlin. Why have they been listed here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.187.58.246 ( talk) 13:43, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect
Russia vs. Ukraine and has thus listed it
for discussion. This discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 March 26#Russia vs. Ukraine until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. signed,
Rosguill
talk
16:45, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
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Change "stated Ukraine was wrongfully created by Soviet Russia" to "stated wrongfully that Ukraine was created by Soviet Russia" Sveinaberg ( talk) 02:22, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
add Mexico and Japan in the Russo Ukrainian War Jonathan555568 ( talk) 05:58, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
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PLease i request you to put a plus sign after the ukrainian casualties and russian casualties because the military casualties has sky rocketed since. Greenarmy4y37882 ( talk) 16:22, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
The thesis, in itself, is undeniable!
"Vladimir Putin will go down (in history) as one of the world's great villains. He's up there with Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Idi Amin. He's a menace. Putin's silenced anyone who would speak against him and has 'disappeared' more people (not counting the Ukrainians) in the middle of the night that can be counted" notes international affairs expert Dr. John Garrow. [1]
"Putin has mental health problems. There can be little doubt that his brain has been neurologically and physically changed. Absolute power for long periods makes one blind to risk, highly egocentric, narcissistic and utterly devoid of self-awareness" says Dr. Ian Robertson in Psychology Today. [2]
Since clawing his way to the top from 1999, Putin's absolute power has warped his reasoning. He has manipulated and consolidated his power (much like Adolf Hitler did) by transforming, twisting, and usurping Russia's judiciary, media and government institutions to serve him and his ways say psychologists. [3]
Former Ukrainian UN ambassador Yuriy Sergeyev has proclaimed that Putin is a "maniac and hiding a serious (mental) disease". [4]
Former German Chancellor Angela Merkel once concluded that Putin is "in another world". [5] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 13:01, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
Although the following incident may be easily dismissed as an April Fools joke, the presenter swore that it really happened:-
Apparently, a Russian drone was shot down when a Ukrainian woman threw a jar of pickled cucumbers at it! [6] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 06:15, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
References
There is a rule in Russian wikipedia, which is a Russian racist thing, that implies that Ukraine is not a country, but just a part of Russia - it shows that it is correct to say not "in Ukraine" but "on Ukraine". According to the rules of the Russian language: "on *some territory*" refers only to areas of the country, not to a separate country. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GoldNotGod ( talk • contribs) 15:54, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
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Remove the misinformation about Russian troops on the border being the start of the modern Russia vs Ukraine conflict, and change it to more accurately represent the events that took place. Make a mention of the people of the Donbas region being shelled and attacked with increased severity, which actually prompted the "invasion" 2600:8801:BE09:6600:316E:9DEE:8D0F:F714 ( talk) 19:20, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
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I want to edit because I watch YouTube and know a bit more information MikeMikeLol ( talk) 15:33, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
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Please link the first occurrence of OHCHR General Vicinity ( talk) 16:41, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
I fail to see how Zelensky being jewish is relevant when discussing if the Ukranian government is a nazi regime. Could someone please explain how that is relevant? There were also prominent members of the 3rd reich that were jewish (or "half-jewish"), so that an individual is jewish can hardly be seen as an argument against a regime's stance on jews. Even if the 3rd reich was persecuing jews, this is not an ingrained quality of nazism; rather the nationalist totalitarian ideology is a defining feature, not hating jews. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.239.195.102 ( talk) 12:50, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
To prevent any mistakes or misunderstandings, the hot line between Washington and Moscow is still operational and continues to be kept open. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 13:22, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
Can someone with experience in maps correct this (or state why it is consistent?): c:File_talk:2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine.svg#Inconsistent_with_source. Habitator terrae ( talk) 15:40, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
Russo-Ukrainian Wars is collection of armed conflicts between Ukrainian states or national movements on the one hand, and Russian states on the other, that have been going on, intermittently, from the time of Kievan Rus' to the present. Please add this link to the article.-- Sakateka ( talk) 09:06, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
In the post, the sources include
http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/67843 http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/67885 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60785754 https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/20/politics/russia-ukraine-negotiations-us-nato/index.html
Thewriter006 ( talk) 00:36, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
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Please add the following at the end of the lead: In 2022 the International Criminal Court opened an investigation into allegations of Russian military war crimes in Ukraine. [1]
It is taken from the article about the invasion (apart from the year). General Vicinity ( talk) 16:34, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
References
Rather than using the SVG map, which is either blocked or suffering from edit wars, and never seems to agree with {{ Russo-Ukrainian War detailed map}} anyway, can we just transclude the map template instead? — kwami ( talk) 19:24, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
The yellow arrows on the yellow map are near-unreadable — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.146.8.169 ( talk) 18:48, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
Adding Bucha massacre under human right violations 24.98.147.231 ( talk) 05:33, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
Please note there's discussion ongoing about far-right Russian separatists in this conflict. The discussion started here, continued here, and has now been raised at the dispute resolution noticeboard. ~ Asarlaí 13:55, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
Did Russian politician Vladimir Zhirinovsky actually die from Covid-19 (despite having been vaccinated 8 times) or was he murdered and is his death somehow related to the current war? [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 06:32, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
The map is currently shown as April 6, while the Invasion map is already on the 12th. It needs to be updated at all times in the War page 201.20.127.227 ( talk) 23:50, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
Following a succession of unproductive discussions about the page title, which have been circular wastes of time, I would like to propose a six-month moratorium on moving this page. Right now, in the thick of the conflict, any discussion about this page's title is unlikely to be productive or reach a satisfactory conclusion. We are awash with WP:BREAKING news coverage and laden with WP:RECENTISM, making any attempt to determine what the common name for the whole conflict an impossible task. Therefore, to avoid continuous disruption, and to give us some distance from these events before reconsidering the matter, I propose this six-month moratorium, similar to what has been done other ongoing conflict pages. Hopefully, in the intervening period, academic sources will come into play, and the historiography of this conflict, as carried out by RS, will become more apparent. RGloucester — ☎ 16:02, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
There's no need for that. I'm curious why you feel the need to shut down discussion. It has seemed like there has been a growing consensus on a move which you have seemed singularly opposed to. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.124.33.16 ( talk) 17:39, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
The article says Russia is wrong in stating Ukraine was created by Soviet Russia. But the wikipedia article that talks about Ukraine forming was due to Russia granting it independence, with Crimea as it was promised on the condition of a permament naval base.
I think the articles are biased toward western views and don't reflect neutrality on the formation of modern ukraine. 58.174.122.48 ( talk) 17:43, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
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The invasion caused global outcry amongst private citizens. Many foreign volunteers have sent themselves to become freedom fighters, with some being combat veterans and others being inexperienced civilans. [2] [3] Russia has declared that these fighters will not be granted POW status if captured, labeling them as "mercenaries" despite the fact that most legitimate fighters officially enlisted in the Ukrainian Military upon arriving in the country. [4] OHMYGODWEDIDIT ( talk) 21:32, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
Sources
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Please remove :
9,268 joined Russian forces after annexation[15]
and remove [15] from sources Beeballerina ( talk) 10:09, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
' ' 'Support' ' ' Whenever I google "Russo-Ukranian War", "Russia Ukraine war", etc, I pretty much only ever get the pages and articles for the invasion. Considering Ukraine and Russia weren't in direct conflict (excluding little green men) before it began, and the confusion calling this prolonged the conflict the war instead of the actual ongoing direct fighting, why don't we move this article to "Russo-Ukrainian conflict"? Aubernas ( talk) 09:09, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
If there is a hostile occupation of territory, there is a war, no? The fact that it fell out of the English-language news cycle is irrelevant. By that measure, there is nothing wrong in Honduras, and Congo is at peace. I oppose any attempt to change the scope.
I don't see the point of changing the title, on the other hand, but don't actively oppose doing so either. Elinruby ( talk) 17:18, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
"if there is a hostile occupation of territory, there is a war"is WP:OR and also wrong. To take an obvious example, few would call the Israeli occupation of the West Bank a continuous 50+ year war, although there was certainly ongoing asymmetric warfare, terrorism and state-sponsored violence – it would more likely be called a conflict. The active war was in Donbas, hence the article War in Donbas. Jr8825 • Talk 18:13, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
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I suggest the caption of the infobox be changed, from "The military situation as of 6 April 2022, during the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine" to "The military situation as it is currently, during the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine" or anything along those lines. This is for better consistency in time so the date does not have to be updated daily. Flagvisioner ( talk) 02:13, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
The map of the current situation in Ukraine is from 13 days ago and needs to be updated. DirtyPotatoEditor ( talk) 10:02, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
Deliberate or not (I shan't cast aspersions), I have noticed that citations are being used without context. If a newspaper has reported something, name the newspaper in the text. Steer away from using opinion pieces as sources for factual information. Don't synthesise sources to make claims that are considered original research. In sum, this page is in desperate need of a clean up. Yellowmellow45 ( talk) 20:19, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
Normally as article which refers to a War would be expected to have a section about the actual Declaration of War, though there is no such section in this article. When did Russia declare the War, on what date, and with what words did Russia declare War. Similarly for Ukraine, on what date did Ukraine declare/acknowledge War, and with what words did Ukraine declare/acknowledge War. Can a Declaration of War section be added to this article or is there a reason for no such section being in the article? ErnestKrause ( talk) 00:22, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
There was no formal declaration. In 2014 the Ukrainians also stated the Russian invasion was an effective declaration. [1] — Michael Z. 02:43, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
Please be notified of Talk:Battle of Kherson#Requested move 24 April 2022. It affects many articles related to the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine (with one or two from Russo-Ukrainian War that are not part of the invasion). The proposal is to move from "battle of X" to "battle for X". Cinderella157 ( talk) 05:08, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
the european union confirmed that germany illegally sold arms to russia despite the embargo 88.156.128.39 ( talk) 16:15, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
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Please remove :
9,268 joined Russian forces after annexation[15]
and remove [15] from sources
The reason is that the article does not seem accurate with its timing and facts. I am not sure who added this but It looks like anti-propaganda. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beeballerina ( talk • contribs) 21:51, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
Ive gone ahead and Done the edit request. Looking at the RSN conversation, it does seem to not be generally considered "high quality", and that seems like quite a significant claim there, so to err on the side of safety, I've removed the said line.
Aidan9382 (
talk)
12:40, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
These two pages show the same map, but with different dates in the caption:
- /info/en/?search=Russo-Ukrainian_War - "The military situation as of 6 April 2022, during the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine"
- /info/en/?search=2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine - "Military situation as of 23 April 2022"
The caption on this page's map should be updated to 23 Apr. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C7:7E86:601:344F:C90E:933F:1F42 ( talk) 09:06, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
Should we mention NATO's (and the UN's) rejection of a no fly zone? Slatersteven ( talk) 14:50, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
Done:
reworded this, as DLNR are not oblasts. —
Michael
Z.
16:22, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
Proposed addition following final paragraph of this section:
From February 25th to April 2nd Russian forces closed in and attempted to capture the city of Kyiv. Russian forces besieged the city with artillery and rocket fire through March[1]. Following successful Ukrainian counterattacks in late March, Russian forces began withdrawing from the Kyiv area on 29 March[2][3]. The capture of Kyiv was a major objective for the Russian Offensive, the failure to do so was a major defeat for the Russian Army. On 2 April, Ukrainian authorities reported that the entire Kyiv region had been recaptured, ending the Battle of Kyiv(2022)[4][5].
Following the failure to take Kyiv, Russian forces diverted to the Eastern and Southern portions of Ukraine where heavy fighting continued. Russian forces began a "Heavy Offensive in Donbass"[6], and continued the Siege of Mariupol which had been under siege since the beginning of the invasion[7]. Conflicting information regarding a potential ceasefire in the besieged Ukrainian port city of Mariupol. Some sources claim that the Russian forces are currently maintaining a cease-fire around the Azovstal Iron and Steel Works plant[8]. However, other sources claim the Russian forces are attempting to "storm" the steel plant[9]. Sources of information regarding this potential ceasefire or offensive have been released around the same times. As of May 2nd, the NBC reports that "civilians are finally being evacuated from the bombed-out steel plant"[10].
References
1. CNN, Nathan Hodge, Olga Voitovych, Paul Murphy and Laura Smith-Spark. "Russian bombardment of Ukrainian cities blunts hopes of swift breakthrough". CNN. Retrieved 2022-05-03.
2. "New York Times New York State Poll, March 1999". ICPSR Data Holdings. 1999-06-16. Retrieved 2022-05-03.
3. Vovk, Dmytro (2022-05-03), "Forced Displacement, Religious Freedom and the Russia-Ukraine Conflict", Religion and Forced Displacement in Eastern Europe, the Caucasus, and Central Asia, Nieuwe Prinsengracht 89 1018 VR Amsterdam Nederland: Amsterdam University Press, ISBN 978-90-485-5393-8, retrieved 2022-05-03 {{
citation}}
: Empty citation (
help): horizontal tab character in |place= at position 25 (help); horizontal tab character in |title= at position 32 (help)
4. "Volume of exchange-traded derivatives by selected region, January-April 2021". dx.doi.org. 2022-04-15. Retrieved 2022-05-03.
5. "'Ukraine has won the Battle of Kyiv'". National Review. 2022-04-03. Retrieved 2022-05-03.
6. "Figure 8 from: Pyle RL (2016) Towards a Global Names Architecture: The future of indexing scientific names. In: Michel E (Ed.) Anchoring Biodiversity Information: From Sherborn to the 21st century and beyond. ZooKeys 550: 261–281.
https://doi.org/10.3897/zookeys.550.10009". dx.doi.org. Retrieved 2022-05-03. {{
cite web}}
: Empty citation (
help): External link in |title= (help)
7. "The siege of Mariupol". France 24. 2022-04-21. Retrieved 2022-05-03.
8. "Russia announces ceasefire around Mariupol's Azovstal steel plant: Ministry". Al Arabiya English. 2022-04-25. Retrieved 2022-04-25.
9. Reuters (2022-04-24). "Ukraine's military says Russian forces are trying to storm Azovstal plant". Reuters. Retrieved 2022-04-25.
10. "Russia-Ukraine war live updates: Civilians evacuated from Mariupol steel plant; Pelosi meets Polish president". NBC News. Retrieved 2022-05-03.
link to draft: /info/en/?search=User:Hogebasj/Russo-Ukrainian_War?preload=Template%3ADashboard.wikiedu.org_draft_template#Article_Draft
If you look in ‘belligerents’ there’s a link ‘ Supporters of Ukraine in the 2022 Russian Invasion of Ukraine’ but there are no supporters according to that article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Coco the Dawg ( talk • contribs) 04:32, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
Following up on an issue identified by Jr8825 here and myself. I've OR/SYNTH concerns about this article and, if you look at how it evolved over time, its not clear its current state was even intentional. This article gradually morphed from an article on the 2014 annexation of Crimea, and as that carried on, to an article basically on all of Ukraine and Russia's interactions since 2014 [2], which is not a well-defined article scope. Eventually, a pre-invasion low-participation no-sources RM resulted in it being called "Russo-Ukrainian War". The issue is most obvious in the current lead, which focuses on 2014 events, provides a one-sentence summary on the state of occupation as of 2019, and then discusses the 2022 invasion. It labels 2015-2022 as a "frozen conflict phase (2015-2022)". In reality, it is talking about three disparate events that occurred in 2014-2015 and then in 2022, and it pops them all into one article under an OR heading of "Russo-Ukrainian War".
This article has no clear scope. The cited sources do not support "Russo-Ukrainian War" existing as a proper name. For example, one cited source referring to a 'war' was cherry-picked; the source is talking about the aggression in Crimea and Donbas, discussing both independently and and in a summary concluding sentence used the word 'war' once–evidently just varying vocabulary–and that was used to support the title. Never-mind that the section is titled "The Modern Russo-Ukrainian Conflict" (pg 127) and discusses both events independently. It made no claim of an ongoing war since 2014. There is no consensus in RS of that existing, and forget consensus I'm not even sure there exist sources that clearly claim that.
It's clear this article is a summary article of three disparate conflicts:
Calling this a " Russo-Ukrainian War" is something invented on Wikipedia, and thus pure OR/ WP:SYNTH. The existence of a war is justified by a section titled " frozen conflict phase (2015-2022)" to fill the timeline, also invented by Wikipedia and completely unsourced. This is causing problems in sub-articles too, confusing their scope and layout, e.g. List of foreign aid to Ukraine during the Russo-Ukrainian War which is mostly 2022 invasion content. Sources that now refer to a 'war' are referring to 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, and so readers searching for a 'Ukraine Russia war' are probably trying to find that, but ending up here. This article has no clear scope, and I'm not sure it can find a clear scope; the purpose of this article is something we usually use a navbox/campaignbox for. ProcrastinatingReader ( talk) 18:40, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
The name has been discussed before.And all the arguments seem to lack sources. And where they have sources, they're misused. For example
Oppose I am pretty sure Russia declared war on Ukraine. [4]-- obviously, per the 2022 source, a war exists as of 2022. But then Wikipedians are extrapolating 2022 sources to say the war started in 2014 and there has been a constant state of war since, which is OR.
count[ing] the total number of victims of hostilities in Donbas from April 14, 2014 to February 10, 2020.which is a War in Donbas figure. The data used in the infobox is not "Russo-Ukrainian War" statistics, they're War in Donbas statistics with editor-conducted calculations in some cases. If there were a 'Russo-Ukrainian War' since 2014, don't you think at least one, probably multiple, RS would be clearly reporting data pertaining to it (which, at minimum, would include combined figures from the annexation and the War in Donbas)? ProcrastinatingReader ( talk) 21:07, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
You’re completely right, and you forgot to mention the fact that Russia only lost 500 soldiers in the whole period from 2014 to 2022 when the war was apparently happening according to wikipedia editors. And most ukrainian troops were killed in direct combat with rebels, all according to sources listed in the infobox. I have opened one very detailed move request for this article, including many sources that prove that “Russia-Ukraine War” is only used for the 2022 invasion, yet editors literally just rejected all sources i included and immediately closed the request instead of using valid arguments to my sources. Wikiman92783 ( talk) 12:34, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/russo-ukraine.htm
Russia appears to be acting more and more like a Mafia state where Putin is the " Il Capo de Tutti Capi" (The Boss of the Bosses), The Oligarchs are the "Dons" (subordinate bosses) and this whole thing is Russia "muscling in" on Ukraine's "turf". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 06:35, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
Does Vladimir Putin intend to launch a second Holodomor against Ukraine just like Stalin once did? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 06:16, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
Xx236 ( talk) 11:18, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
Tens of thousands bytes removed without any discussion. Xx236 ( talk) 09:27, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
Hello! I recently made an edit removing a large amount of content from the Reactions section. Why? Because I thought the section was in dire need of help. It was messy, confusing, in places seriously out of date, and structured strangely. Above all else, it was not written in a good summary style. The section was indiscriminate in what information was included, leading to a messy piece of writing that made no distinction between important, meaningful, lasting reactions and unimportant ones. It did not provide a general overview of reactions to this important event, but rather a cherry-picked sampling. This is the inevitable consequence of a long-standing article on a complex, multi-phase event taking place over 8 years. Until I (or someone else) puts in the work to add a truly encyclopedic, well-summarized 'Reactions' section, I think it's better to link to the relevant sub-articles in all their glory rather than allowing the messy section to stand on this page. —Ganesha811 ( talk) 11:30, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 8 March 2022 and 13 May 2022. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Hogebasj (
article contribs). — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Hogebasj (
talk •
contribs)
15:55, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
Xx236 it is unclear what you want to be done, please specify. X-750 Rust In Peace... Polaris 01:17, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
it seems odd to list many entities as one 2601:642:C481:4640:0:0:0:6DE ( talk) 06:05, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
When a NATO member country supports Ukraine, it is not to say they act on behalf of NATO there⸺if you get what I'm saying. Nordic non-NATO countries have also supported Ukraine. Feel free to add this information there therefore. ToniTurunen ( talk) 20:05, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
The usual practice here has always been to list sides that, besides mere diplomatic or humanitarian support, also had a direct of indirect military role (often, but not always, including those supplying military-grade equipment). Under that note, adding Sweden, Finland, South Korea, Japan, Australia and New Zealand to the list is the most accurate course of action. These countries have supplied arms to Ukraine just like NATO, yet cannot be included under the NATO umbrella. Having NATO as Ukraine's sole defender seems dangerously close to US-Eurocentrism and pure misinformation. The Last Scholar ( talk) 00:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
NATO, as an organization, refuses to send troops or weapons to Ukraine or impose a no-fly zone over it to keep the trans-Atlantic military group from being drawn into a wider war with nuclear-armed Russia. Individual NATO countries, however, have provided anti-aircraft and anti-tank weapons to Ukraine, as well as equipment and medical supplies.
References
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/3482769-who-estimates-3000-avoidable-deaths-in-ukraine-due-to-lack-of-access-to-chronic-illness-treatments/ Xx236 ( talk) 12:29, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
The Crimean separatists and Donbas separatists would obviously not agree to this characterization. I suggest editing this term to the "2014 Ukrainian Revolution." If the editors were to add "(characterized as the 'Revolution with Dignity' in Ukraine)", that would be accurate and OK, albeit a bit wordy. The page on the 2014 Ukraine Revolution should also be edited along the same lines. The current entry is biased and inaccurate from the perspective of one side in the dispute. Wikipedia needs to stop being so partisan in everything. It is tiresome. 108.56.219.144 ( talk) 05:27, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
Can someone please add info into the article as per /info/en/?search=Russia_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#Nuclear_arsenal_of_Russia ?
It would help the 30k people looking at this every day with having some perspective with regard to nuclear arsenals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:8080:A702:EA85:C45F:2E5A:862B:6891 ( talk) 18:37, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
Add this into the article please. It's the Russian ambassador to London's declaration about nuclear weapons.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61618902 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:8080:A702:EA85:2521:62FF:8BC7:AF90 ( talk) 22:31, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
I request to add an information on the fact that Russian concscripts are used in the war since the beginning. Thanks. Few sources: [6] [7] [8] AXONOV (talk) ⚑ 13:33, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
or at least using it only as an attributed opinionI totally agree with you, but I'm Russian and I tend to abstain from contribution into the article. There is a plenty of sources besides US embassy website. Cheers. AXONOV (talk) ⚑ 15:38, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
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I believe that NATO involvement in the war has helped Ukraine get an upper hand, and I think it should be mentioned. Here are some sources to back up my point:
Please excuse my bad citing, I am still working on it. BadKarma22 ( talk) 03:33, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
Also, what section would this be added under? BadKarma22 ( talk) 04:55, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
I want to add a section including NATO contributions to the war and their involvement. BadKarma22 ( talk) 04:58, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
Thank you for your response! BadKarma22 ( talk) 16:33, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
I'll move this to the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine BadKarma22 ( talk) 16:34, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
NATO, as an organization, refuses to send troops or weapons to Ukraine or impose a no-fly zone over it to keep the trans-Atlantic military group from being drawn into a wider war with nuclear-armed Russia. Individual NATO countries, however, have provided anti-aircraft and anti-tank weapons to Ukraine, as well as equipment and medical supplies.
References
I don't see any discussion here about the U.S. disinformation campaign and its impact on Wikipedia's reliance on sources that simply reprint U.S. intelligence products. Any comments? Jojalozzo ( talk) 18:42, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12040
Spending by Obama in 2014 was for "non-lethal" weapons, and by Trump in 2017 for "lethal" weapons.
The distinction between the two is riot control equipment is non-lethal (e.g. police), and everything else such as bullets are lethal (e.g army).
I'm pretty sure America is honest about what it's doing as a government, but individual players obviously have varied agenda. But, I'm 100% sure, if the USA government did something, they'd have a receipt for it. But, the caveat is, obviously, we're not always going to agree with those players are we.
Anyway that's my stance on "disinformation", I usually put it down to incomplete research, but then I like reading more than others I guess.
I hope you all have a nice day, and in the future we don't have wars like this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.184.175.53 ( talk) 19:34, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Wouldn't the norms of English grammar dictate the use of an en dash "–" instead of a hyphen in the title "Russo-Ukrainian War". The dash article attests to the en dash's usage in lieu of a hyphen in the cases of compound words such as "Russo–Ukrainian". Quoting the article, one of the en dash's main uses are "as a substitute for a hyphen in a compound when one of the connected items is more complex than a single word", as in the examples given such as "Radical–Unionist coalition", "Boston–Hartford route", and "New York–London flight". Cheers, – 𝑵𝒖𝒏𝒖𝒙𝒙𝒙 ✪ 𝑇𝑎𝑙𝑘 05:22, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
Can someone add this war chart in please?
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61726733?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=62a21cd832686a6e65aef049%26Russia%20may%20have%20lost%2020%2C000%20soldiers%2C%20Western%20official%20says%262022-06-09T16%3A45%3A20.265Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:45d54071-a546-4f7a-b65e-d44f4ad1433a&pinned_post_asset_id=62a21cd832686a6e65aef049&pinned_post_type=share — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:8080:A702:EA85:F002:281A:E7C5:89B2 ( talk) 16:46, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
The caption on the image says “The military situation as of 19 May 2022 [update]”, when it should say “The military situation as of 16 July 2024 [update]”. 2A01:119F:253:7000:9072:8D51:B6AB:8A80 ( talk) 09:04, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
Next to vladimir putin and Sergei Shoigu add '
'
next to voldemort zelensky, Petro Poroshenko and Oleksandr Turchynov add '
' — Preceding
unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])
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I Russo-Ukrainian militairy operation 2A02:A457:53D3:1:31A3:64B4:8BCF:163D ( talk) 17:14, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
Its the Russo-Ukrainian militairy operation not Russo-Ukrainian war
It's about who supports. Ukraine is supported by Greece, Turkish, English, French, German, Swedish, Australian, Norway, United States of America. But not listed on wikipedia? Meanwhile, on the Russian side there is Belarus. Is wikipedia in terms of this information, can be very accurate or not? Wikipedia should always be updated for the latest information. Neutrality is always upheld, as a proper medium of information and does not erase the role of each event because it can change history later. SoloRazer ( talk) 12:27, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
Found a couple of minor errors in the [ "Russia-NATO relations"] section of the article:
> "Russian military aircraft flying over the Baltic and Black Seas often do not indicating their position or communicate with air traffic controllers"
Needs correction to "indicate"
> "Although Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov have characterized the conflict as a proxy war instigated by NATO"
Needs correction to "has"
First time poster, apologies if this is inappropriate. Hoppingskipper ( talk) 14:37, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
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Add "(click to view)" to the Russian Invasion map gifs subtext as it has exceeded the number of frames that will allow it to play in thumbnail form. Physeters ✉ 03:44, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Procedural close. User:Onetwothreeip is represented as requesting this move but did not make this request. See below. ( non-admin closure) Cinderella157 ( talk) 00:45, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
Russo-Ukrainian War → Russian-Ukrainian War – Common name. Onetwothreeip ( talk) 07:09, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
notice: The initial comment in this section was edited after receiving replies to an earlier version. Replaced italics with quotation marks on the Scott Ritter quote below, in accordance with WP policy for quotations. 24.42.166.244 ( talk) 05:56, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
The views expressed are solely those of the author and may or may not reflect those of Consortium News.Sources like this could be permissible for citing uncontentious claims or certain statements of opinion with appropriate in text attribution. (Subject to other policies of course) That said, it appears the author put forth no claim as to the scale of the invasion and his views about the legal justification, regardless of whatever merit they may or may not have, shouldn't be included here as fact as suggested by the phrase
citing it as ... authorized by Aricle 51.... The proposed wording also seems to suggest that Putin himself invoked that legal justification which, although it may be the case (I have no idea), is unsupported at least by this source as best I can tell. -- N8wilson 🔔 21:17, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
Does anyone but wikipedians call this the Ukraine War? I propose renaming this the Ukraine War and removing the current redirect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Ukraine_War&redirect=no
Thoughts? 666hopedieslast ( talk) 08:07, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
The topic of Western propaganda, censorship and disinformation campaigns should be included in this article. Clearly having a section for Russian propaganda without a section for Western propaganda is anything but balanced & neutral. Below is a 'tip of the iceberg' of material from
investigative journalists reporting on the proposed topic.
<extensive copy/paste copyvios removed>
Since South Ossetia has some of its forces attached to Russian military, and there have been South Ossetian desertions from Ukraine (therefore we conclude that there are south ossetian troops there), shouldn't the breakaway state be considered a co-belligerent? 2804:14D:5C59:5717:385A:9FDA:283E:DD25 ( talk) 22:26, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
In the sentence (last of section),
«begin» should be replaced by e.g. «continue». «begin» is incompatible with the text before. It's also refined later in the source*. There, «commencement» is in the abstract, but «continuation» at p. 530.
* Mykhnenko, Vlad (2020).
"Causes and Consequences of the War in Eastern Ukraine: An Economic Geography Perspective". Europe-Asia Studies. 72 (3): 530.
doi:
10.1080/09668136.2019.1684447. The role of the Kremlin's covert military intervention, aided by its local proxies, remains paramount, necessary and sufficient for the continuation of hostilities.
(Forgot to sign, so here: – Markus Prokott ( talk) 03:34, 6 July 2022 (some Time))
a separate section for all the international violations presumably done by the parties will be a good addition.... any views? 203.115.91.240 ( talk) 23:07, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
Anyone have some references to the current estimated strength under mobilization of the AFU, as well as the National Guard, Border Guard, and Territorial Defence? The infobox under “Strength” directs us to Order of battle for the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, but that article has only organization and no numbers whatsoever. — Michael Z. 20:08, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
How can this be called ‘an ongoing war’ when Ukraine was a sovereign nation attacked on Feb 24, 2022 by Russian forces? How can this be called a ‘war’ when top military experts worldwide are calling this a genocide? Calling this a ‘war’ and an ‘extension of a war in from 2014,’ seems to exclude the unique and obvious situation of an unprovoked attack on primarily civilians. 2601:190:C400:9E30:458F:5D8E:F216:7666 ( talk) 00:00, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
Unfortunately the people running this site don’t know how it works. It’s clear that the Russia-Ukraine war started on february 24 according to every single source, yet they bring up pointless self published books and change the notion of this war Wikiman92783 ( talk) 11:09, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
Woah, let's calm down and stop starting fights. Let's work together to settle this civilly. BadKarma22 ( talk) 04:52, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
In other wiki articles they list other names for the event in the first few sentences which could work as something of a middle ground. I've seen Putin's War thrown around in the West. I can't find a really good name from any Russia source though. The best might be: Russia's Ukraine Operation which I found in Russia Today, but even that's a bit too technical. I don't know how Wiki formatting works 2:03, 11 May 2022 (EST) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:1900:A5A0:892E:7508:FA84:85F4 ( talk)
I love the name "Russo-Ukrainian War": traditionally, the loser of the conflict gets the hyphenated prefix and the victor gets the full name. So.... Russo-Japanese War (they lost that one too), Franco-Prussian War? Don't even need to look it up to know who won. Russo-Ukrainian is quite accurate! 70.51.88.190 ( talk) 01:26, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
Following the long, long Wikipedia precedent set by other long term conflicts that simmer down and flare up (Most notably Nagorno Karabakh, Afghanistan, and Libya) and not to mention the average common usage of the term(the war started to most people in February), I propose taking the name Russo-Ukrainian War to the other page and renaming this one to Conflict(because this page covers the broader conflict as a whole, including the down time, while the other page should cover the active full scale war that started in February)
Semi-Related, but for the same reasons the War in Donbas article should be split in two(not to mention length and neatness reasons.) War in Donbas(or Donbas War) should cover the active true hot war phase in 2014-2015, and a separate article (2015-2022 Donbas Skirmishes) should cover the mostly frozen conflict stage with the occasional flareup(which is exactly how those other ones handle it). All of these, plus the various political crisis like Kerch Strait and Euromaiden, are part of the greater Russo-Ukrainian Conflict that started in late 2013, which is the scope of this article. The term “Russo-Ukrainian War” should, as following the precedent set by the other similar cases AND the common usage, be reserved for the full scale war between Russia and Ukraine that broke out this February.
Please note, this is not an attempt to downplay anything. Do not read my intention like that. I simply want to fix a messy set of articles(not even there own fault, we couldn’t have seen the trajectory of this in 2014, Nagorno Karabakh and Afghanistan had far more hindsight beforehand) and get them consistent with the others, not to mention far more in line with common usage.
I’d also like to say support for this has been consistently high from the other side(the page that wants to be Russo-Ukrainian War, but is currently 2022 invasion), so we really just need a decent amount of approval from this side in order to clean this mess up. I hope I can count on your support 2604:3D09:1F80:CA00:9957:F09A:E13D:8B3F ( talk) 06:52, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Map is not updating. Please update it. Sarge Da2 ( talk) 09:29, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
Civilian casualties: 3,393 killed (September 2021) - should be 2022 157.254.225.94 ( talk) 11:52, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
The casualty section probably needs updating Patbahn ( talk) 01:48, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
According to Amnesty International, Ukrainian "fighting tactics" of launching attacks from populated civilian areas, including schools and hospitals, puts civilians in harms way ( https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/08/ukraine-ukrainian-fighting-tactics-endanger-civilians/), a practice colloquially known as, using human shields. Occams ied ( talk) 22:41, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
That list inudes Kazakhstan. It's not an appropriate list to equivocate with military support. Not at all, since a cursory view of that list includes nations like Malta and Kazakhstan and most likely other nations whose foreign policy being described as pro-Ukraine would be patently absurd to anyone actually informed about the war AND the pervasive war propaganda.
It's almost as if this very wiki page is participating in a vast Russophobic conspiracy. 2601:5C4:200:5C40:5C25:C407:8CAE:BF54 ( talk) 14:55, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
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Okay, I am the Ukrainian who has left the conflict in my home country to the United States of America and I saw things there in my country that are not correct written in this article and I would very like to clarify the things which are wrong. Beansshrekmemes ( talk) 13:12, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
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I have some stuff to add for the war. Using this source ( https://www.msn.com/en-xl/news/other/ukraine-round-up-counter-attack-continues-kremlin-remains-defiant/ar-AA11Ketu) it can be added that Ukraine launched a counter-offensive during the Russian's offensive towards Kharkiv on 6 September. By 11 September, Ukraine had taken back the cities of Izyum & Kupiansk. It can also be added that in response, the Russians were 'regrouping'. Ulysses Grant Official ( talk) 00:56, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
Ukrainian forces launched counteroffensives in the south in August, and in the northeast in September.in the section 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine. Feel free to propose additional, more specific changes to the content if you think it should be modified from that. — Danre98( talk^ contribs) 00:07, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
New to Wikipedia, this is locked but the 7% figure in the introduction should be cited: https://press.un.org/en/2019/ga12122.doc.htm that's where it comes from. I thought Wikipedia had a strict policy of citation!! Nerdfighter3 ( talk) 18:23, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
In the history section, please re-add link to main articles e.g. there are links to specific battles like Battle of Ilovaisk but no link to the War in Donbas -- Nilsol2 ( talk) Nilsol2 ( talk) 16:13, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
It is heavily implied in this article that the existence of a Jewish leader precludes the possibility of the existence of the existence of neo Nazism in the country.
This is, at best, false logic.
The phrase "..., despite Zelenskyy being Jewish." Should be replaced with ". However, some people believe this unlikely due to Zelenskyy being Jewish." 120.22.203.116 ( talk) 08:58, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
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Add (until 2022) to DPR and LPR in belligerents Loganp23 ( talk) 23:50, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
For a generally serious improvement onto the article, I believe we should highlight the mass exodus of Ukrainians prior to and during the Russo-Ukrainian War, coming from sites such as [13] https://www.nbcnews.com/specials/ukraine-refugee-exodus-interactive-map/index.html, [14] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-60555472, [15] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-recruits-ukraine-exodus-votes-annexation-putin-rcna49546, [16] https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/europe/2022-03-28/ukrainian-exodus, and [17] https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-poland-migration-00b1b341c356c26db266c64e4e2b5541.
I'm unsure if its already been turned in it's own separate article or as some minor area of the article itself, but having it highlighted as a major section would help with the general civilian side of the war as well. Surreal12 ( talk) 00:17, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
...any edits done here should be fact checked (if such a thing is still possible); there are too many lies, half-lies, and statistics coming from both sides of this conflict of ideas, and from their supporters / detractors; Reuters is probably the only source that might be trusted at this time. Ajpajpajp1 ( talk) 22:42, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
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Sideswipe9th (
talk)
19:01, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
Technically, the name "Russo-Ukrainian War" is in not accurate as no formal declaration of war has been made. A more title would be "Russo-Ukrainian Conflict" with a commonly known as "Russo-Ukrainian War" mention. The maker of this article is not at fault rather the Western news sources who are trying to puss their agenda. 166.182.86.130 ( talk) 19:24, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
With recent incidents of Russia using UCAVs made by Iran and Ukraine cutting off Diplomatic relations with Iran according to reuters, should it be added that Iran supplies/supports Russia? Reuters article below:
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-says-it-downed-four-iranian-drones-zelenskiy-raps-tehran-2022-09-23/ Huntsmanleader ( talk) 22:07, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
The info box would apparently be too small to include all of the countries sending military aid to Ukraine, someone check the allied intervention in the Russian civil war wikipage, you can probably just copy it from there. Occams ied ( talk) 21:51, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
I see not even addressed 2605:B100:101:F35B:AD33:C3D8:26C1:7B22 ( talk) 22:38, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
Whole war page is showcased as anti-Russia. I find it pro-NATO & agenda driven. Reuters is reporting from Ukrainian lines, not Russian. Where is Russian view in this? Asian & African countries view this war being instigated by US & NATO. 2402:3A80:CFA:E944:89E0:8304:214A:5316 ( talk) 17:13, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
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In the Russian belligerents, change it so that the short lived self proclaimed republic of Crimea is included with the dates March 17 2014- March 21 2014. the republic of Crimea had the same amount of recognition as the DPR and LPR, and if they are included, then the illegal Crimean republic should also be included Scu ba ( talk) 15:29, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
I noticed that the map says it shows the military situation as of October 26, but when you click on the map it shows Ukrainian advances from yesterday (Nov 9). The page for the 2022 Russian Invasion of Ukraine has the same map, and says it shows the current military situation as of Nov 10. Could someone fix this page so it says the map is current as of today? thanks Indigotwelve ( talk) 20:02, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
The status of Kherson needs to be changed from Russian controlled to either Ukrainian controlled or contested.
Source: https://www.democracynow.org/2022/11/3/headlines/pentagon_confirms_active_duty_us_troops_are_deployed_inside_ukraine 2A02:810D:12BF:FB6C:9CE7:7A5A:A55C:F9F ( talk) 23:23, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
Why is there nothing in the article about this:
--DC 66.234.79.76 ( talk) 06:47, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
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Nov 26, 2022, 17:43 - «New conscription law»
Article states.....between Ukraine and Russian proxies, with frequent brief ceasefires but no lasting peace and few changes in territorial control...
Just a clarification... the word ceasefire indicates the 2 sides arranged a stoppage of hostilities. There have been lulls where either side consolidated their gains, or rebuild combat effectiveness, or realigned forces, but there have been zero ceasefires.
I know it is a bit nitty 2603:6011:C3F0:A60:8493:80A0:DC69:1E23 ( talk) 17:40, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
I noticed when reading this article under "Related Issues" that there is a section for "Russian propaganda and disinformation campaigns" which is very helpful and significant to understanding the war. However, I noted that there is no section for "Ukrainian propaganda and disinformation campaigns". There is no doubt Ukrainian and international propaganda and disinformation campaigns is highly significant to the war. Regardless of whether one considers the Ukrainian or Russian side to be 'right' or 'wrong', in Wikipedia's ethos of truth and scrutinizing both sides, there should be a credible article written of the Ukrainian propaganda and disinformation campaigns. Thucydides2.0 ( talk) 06:47, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
So (OP) can you give us an example of the sources that are discussing this? Slatersteven ( talk) 15:02, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
A senior general has admitted to have UK troops on ground performing covert operations
source: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/royal-marines-deployed-on-high-risk-covert-operations-in-ukraine-r7b50gv3p RandomPotato123 ( talk) 16:19, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
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I request the title name of this Wikipedia page should be referred to as the "Second Russo-Ukrainian War" instead of "Russo-Ukrainian War." The first conflict between Russia and Ukraine was a hundred years ago. I thought giving this name would be better and would ease confusion later on. /info/en/?search=Ukrainian%E2%80%93Soviet_War#:~:text=The%20Ukrainian%E2%80%93Soviet%20War%20(Ukrainian,Soviet%20Ukraine%20and%20Soviet%20Russia). Lightdroid96 ( talk) 02:46, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
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I request the title name of this Wikipedia page "Russo-Ukrainian War," should be changed to "Second Russo-Ukrainian War." The first conflict between Russia and Ukraine was a hundred years ago. I thought giving this name would be better and would ease confusion later on. /info/en/?search=Ukrainian%E2%80%93Soviet_War#:~:text=The%20Ukrainian%E2%80%93Soviet%20War%20(Ukrainian,Soviet%20Ukraine%20and%20Soviet%20Russia) Lightdroid96 ( talk) 02:57, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
{{
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ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ (
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Change “Location Ukraine (with spillover into Russia, Poland, and Moldova”
To
“Location Ukraine, Russia (with spillover into Poland and Moldova” Jhvhfhv ( talk) 03:26, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
Even without the more powerful Western weapons Ukraine covets, its military has proved inventive with the weaponry it has, striking in Russian territory in the past. Ukraine hit Russian bases in Belgorod, close to the Ukrainian borderAlaexis ¿question? 12:07, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
Here is my sources https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/ukraine-live-belarusian-soldiers-back-ukraine-as-they-turn-on-lukashenko-and-putin/ar-AA15LxAB?cvid=8c75832f922246e5b1db47899acb8e1a&ocid=winp2fptaskbarhover https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1714794/ukraine-live-belarus-soldiers-rebel-ukraine-war-lukashenko-putin 82.14.227.184 ( talk) 10:22, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
I think that Belarus should be added. Russia deliberately (and with permission) maneuvered through Belarus to invade northern Ukraine in February 2022 and then retreated through Belarus from the north soon after that. Russia has also continually used Belarus for launching air-launched missiles and (I think) surface-to-surface missiles. If we have included Poland for a single stray missile and Moldova for overflying Russian missiles, then Belarus surely exceeds those countries' levels of having been affected as a "location" of the war. Holy ( talk) 17:49, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
Good responses, thanks! It seems that there's a stronger argument for Belarus than for Poland, and probably even a stronger argument for Moldova than Poland. So, the choices for "location" are
The argument against including Poland is that a single stray missile shouldn't be enough to consider that it is a "location" of the war. Similarly, the argument against including Moldova is that several deliberate overflights (though an egregious violation of its airspace and non-belligerent status) still don't make it a "location" of the war. Still, I'm inclined toward the middle option. What do you all think of these three options? Holy ( talk) 18:17, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
I believe that a good up to date map is vital to these articles as it helps the reader understand what is happening and why. Please do not remove the maps. Add photos if you wish but keep the maps Bluenose Gunner ( talk) 03:54, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
Recent addition of April 2015 Amnesty report [24] is one-sided. What report do really contains is - Breaking Bodies: Torture and summary killings in eastern Ukraine provides compelling evidence of frequent and widespread prisoner abuse by a broad range of captors on both sides of the conflict. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/ukraine-new-evidence-prisoners-tortured-and-killed-amid-conflict/ . Please update the article accordingly. Manyareasexpert ( talk) 08:58, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
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Russo-Ukrainian War → Russo-Ukrainian conflict – Suits more to the theme of the article, since this event consists of several wars ( War in Donbas, 2022 Russian invasion) and most of its duration as of now consisted of stalemate and occasional shelling along the frontline with less then 500 casualties in 7 years. This situation very much resembled what is happening to this day in the Georgian regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia since 2008, Moldovan region of Transnistria for more than 30 years already or what is happening between Serbia and Kosovo, and these conflicts are not usually described as "wars". CapLiber ( talk) 16:27, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
8 The increase in figures in the current estimate compared with those released by OHCHR earlier is mainly due to processed data on casualties among combatants, including non-combat ones, which occurred before 2021, mostly in 2014-2018.
Tim Judah writing for the New York Review of Books has presented a new outline for the Russo-Ukraine War and the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, which brings up the discussion of whether the Wikipedia articles for these subjects need to be reviewed and updated. Tim Judah states the following outline as being the most appropriate:
Volume I: Maidan in 2014, Russian annexation of Crimea, seizure of parts of Donbas in eastern Ukraine by Russian proxy forces;
Volume II: (We are currently living in what Tim Judah calls chapter 4 of Volume II)
Is this outline by Tim Judah useful to discuss for reviewing and updating both the Wikipedia articles for the Russo-Ukraine War and the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine? ErnestKrause ( talk) 19:07, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
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As of May 2015 Amnesty International had received no reply to these enquiries.
Add a comma after 2015 and change "enquiries" to "inquiries"
As of May 2015, Amnesty International had received no reply to these inquiries. Julianstout ( talk) 18:43, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
Here's the quote:
"The Russo-Ukrainian War has been ongoing between Russia (alongside Russian separatists in Ukraine) and Ukraine since February 2014."
Should it be "The Russo-Ukrainian War is an ongoing war" instead of the original one we have? ☭MasterWolf-Æthelwulf☭ ( =^._.^= ∫) 15:29, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
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TankDude2000 ( talk) 16:59, 30 January 2023 (UTC) I am planning to change this article from “Russo-Ukrainian War” to “Russo-Ukrainian Conflict”. Russia wasn’t in a war with Ukraine until 2022. The current name should be transfered to the “2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine”.
Technically, Russia didn’t officially attack Ukraine in 2014, but rather used rebels to fight Ukraine. That was the War in Donbas or the Ukrainian Civil War. However, the Russo-Ukrainian Conflict, which started with the Crimean crisis, should be the new name. TankDude2000 ( talk) 16:53, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
That was an invasion, since the Ukrainian army didn’t do any offensive. Same with 1968 Czechoslovakia. And the 2022 russian invasion of ukraine should be renamed to russo-ukrainian war. TankDude2000 ( talk) 17:27, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
Dude. Uncool. The war between ruzzia and ukraine started in 2022 while the conflict started in 2014. Period. TankDude2000 ( talk) 17:41, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
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TankDude2000 ( talk) 16:55, 2 February 2023 (UTC)I should remove “international” from “international conflict” at the beginning because the war isn’t international!
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Add the fact that it is an undeclared war Loganp23 ( talk) 02:46, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
Is there a reason the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 is not mentioned at all in this article? Nor linked to? It seems an absurd omission. I see that there was discussion that it did not deserve mention in the lede, but omitting it entirely seems WP:UNDUE in the extreme. Also pretty odd, since we include it in this template about the war.-- Darryl Kerrigan ( talk) 00:15, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
I suggest that we change this title from “Russo-Ukrainian War” to “Russo-Ukrainian Conflict” because the real war started in 2022 with the illegal invasion made by Ruzzia. TankDude2000 ( talk) 15:16, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
Also, check out my talk section on the 2022 Russian Invasion of Ukraine. TankDude2000 ( talk) 15:19, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
Wait a minute, how am I able to edit this article? Are you trying to get me banned? TankDude2000 ( talk) 17:54, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
The first sentence in the lead paragraph isn't really proper English currently:
"Conflict between X and Y against Z" isn't very grammatical or clear. 84.248.144.85 ( talk) 15:12, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
Who decided to make this page unlocked? Could see a lot of trolls making unnecessary changes. Patriciogetsongettingridofhiswiki ( talk) 22:38, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
I've recently created an article for Hypothetical Ukrainian victory in the Russo-Ukrainian War. This has been a widely discussed topic and we have many reliable sources to talk about this. Still, the topic proved quite complex for my amateur geopolitical knowledge and I do not believe I've written a well-argumented and convincing article. Thus, I would appreciate help into writing page, but also linking it throughout other articles and giving it appropriate categories. This being a pretty unique page with few others to compare it to adds to me not having known how to handle this article. Super Ψ Dro 19:56, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
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Ukraine supported by NATO. Should be shown in the Belligerents section with NATO's flag. https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_211740.htm#:~:text=NATO%20is%20stepping%20up%20support,meeting%20of%20NATO%20Defence%20Ministers. Yasarhossain07 ( talk) 06:54, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
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ScottishFinnishRadish (
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15:03, 17 February 2023 (UTC)The result of the move request was: not moved. WP:SNOW closure, unanimous opposition and no chance consensus will develop for move. ( non-admin closure) —Ganesha811 ( talk) 13:33, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
Russo-Ukrainian War → War in Ukraine – Per WP:COMNAME as on Google ["Russo-Ukrainian War"] gives 'About 6,820,000 results' whereas ["War in Ukraine"] gives 'About 151,000,000 results'. --- Tbf69 P • T 19:32, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
a search engine test is a first-pass heuristic or "rule of thumb".After eight odd years, there are good quality sources to tell us what the title should be - how it is titled in such sources. Even if it is also referred to in multiple ways as synonyms, these are not the same as titles. Others also refer to the proposal as WP:RECENTISM as it is the present war in Ukraine of many in history but WP:PRECISE, being the only war with Russia (the Russian Federation) that occupies this title. I don't see this going anywhere and there is a definite forecast for snow. Cinderella157 ( talk) 10:02, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
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When are we going to rename it to WW3? It now to 1/6 of time WW2 was, and it has USA/UK/Germany tanks and 101 airborne of USA circling on it and many many USA/UK/Poland mercs inside Ukraine. It also has the India, China and Iran, maybe Turkey on Russian side as well as many of Africa, cause of Europe stealing their free russian corn. Considering Ukraine bombed Poland 5th article is already at play, so NATO is as good as activated. Why is it not WW3? For all purposes it is. 2A00:1370:8184:1CE9:5EF2:DEC1:E554:DAE3 ( talk) 00:35, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
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Russia ukraine war begun after 2022. Pretty crazy how defensive wikipedia users are over this article for some reason, I’ve even seen them straight up use threats to report users lol. I think it’s a shame how wikipedia has got to this, this makes it a very unreliable source. 88.245.198.84 ( talk) 21:48, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: NOT MOVED - per WP:SNOW ( non-admin closure) FOARP ( talk) 13:51, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
Russo-Ukrainian War → Russo-Ukrainian conflict — No WP:CONSISTENT in regard to the Russo-Georgian War, since direct military confrontation between Russia and Ukraine, after all, began in February 2022. Before that it was sporadic confrontation between some Russian units and Ukrainians, with Russian military aid to the puppet states of DPR and LPR. That confrontation is already descibed in the article on the War in Donbas (2014–2022), and its intensity was falling down consistently until 2022. The invasion and subsequent annexation of Crimea, while no doubt a military aggression, met little to no resistance at the time, thus not provoking a war. In continuation of my proposals made on the talk page for the article on the current war, I'd suggest renaming this article, to then split the part of the latter one to Russo-Ukrainian War, leaving the phase from the start of the invasion until the March-April retreat from Kyiv and northern Ukraine to 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, as it would describe the phase of the war when there was no certainty of Ukraine keeping its capital and thus turning the war into a guerilla warfare, and when there were chances of Russia successfuly depriving Ukraine of its sovereignty, government and the state overall, similarly to the articles on 2003 invasion of Iraq or Operation Barbarossa (from start of the war with the Soviet Union until 1942, where chances of relatively quick occupation of European part of Russia faded completely). The current title unfairly equalizes a large-scale war, with long period trench warfare, heavy bombings of cities all across the biggest European country, sporadic spillovers to neighbouring countries (including EU & NATO members), large military supplies by almost all nations of the so called " First World" and heavy (100K+) losses from both sides, to an almost bloodless, yet still agressive, military operation of one country on another country's soil, and a local war that kept slowly turning into a border conflict, similar to Transnistria conflict, Georgian-Ossetian, or Abkhaz-Georgian conflict. If all three changes are made, it would not deminish the scale of the current war, yet it would draw a distinct line, that is necessary to understand the basic nature of the described events. CapLiber ( talk) 16:28, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
The renames of the articles to "Russo-Ukrainian War" in the russian or english wikipedia happened only after 2022 in support of a very debatable framing of these events
Should NATO be listed in the infobox of the left side? GamerKlim9716 ( talk) 22:28, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
It absolutely should, since 1) NATO is recognized by one of the major belligerents, Russia, as a participant in the conflict (similar to how Belarus, officially neutral, is also considered by NATO as a Russian ally in the war), 2) NATO has arguably given more military support to Ukraine than Belarus has to Russia, yet the latter relationship is included in the infobar, 3) support from NATO members vastly outnumber the support given by non-NATO members like Japan or Taiwan. Unfortunately this has been discussed before and no consensus has been reached, for some reason that eludes me. Eliminating NATO's clear support role in this war is like removing the US/USSR from the Vietnam War top infobox. The Last Scholar ( talk) 04:27, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
Not a single source calls the conflict from 2014 to 2022 as the russia ukraine war, but rather the illegal and evil invasion since february 2022 as such. Naming this article russia ukraine war further proves russian bots’ points about ukraine constantly bombing donbas since 2014. And it is not even a correct name in the first place. I won’t even list the name of articles proving that russia ukraine war is used only for the post-february 2022 invasion since it’s common sense that you can google the name and see for yourself the sources . Wikiman92783 ( talk) 14:04, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
I stongly agree with RegalZ8790! TankDude2000 ( talk) 17:10, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
Was discussed in https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Talk:Russo-Ukrainian_War&oldid=1145644136#Requested_move_1_March_2023 Mateusz Konieczny ( talk) 07:12, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
Rationale for
WP:BOLD given by editor: per MOS:WORDPRECEDENCE, MOS:INFOBOXFLAG. This is non-WP:NPOV because it elevates them to the level of sovereign states.
The cited MOS sections don't really provide guidance specific to the case, although they mention that military conflicts are one exception to the usual rules against overuse of flags.
In every instance I found offhand of insurgencies, secessions and civil wars, notable groups with their own flags, and certainly breakaway quasi-states, had their flags displayed in the infobox. So there appears to be strong consensus to do this, including in contentious topics.
The second statement could ironically itself be construed (although I don't go quite that far myself) as POV. Regardless, state sovereignty is, as I said, irrelevant to whether the flag should be displayed, as well as not being trivial to define. In this case, the DPR and LPR, although little better than Russian puppets, met the criteria for de facto sovereignty as well as the declarative theory of statehood.
RadioactiveBoulevardier ( talk) 19:24, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
[t]his matches the manner in which they are presented in the two articles (this one and the current invasion article) and in reliable sources (as Russia-backed separatist states)refers to
... indeed in being listed underneath Russia with indents they are implied to be subjects of that sovereign statewhich directly preceded it. Mr rnddude ( talk) 23:52, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
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Need to add Viktor Muzhenko to Ukrainian commanders. He was a Chief of the General Staff and Commander-in-Chief of Armed forces in 2014-2019 PaBro2906 ( talk) 20:50, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
Why is the title of this article Russo-Ukrainian War instead of Russian-Ukrainian War? – Treetoes023 ( talk) 22:23, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
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I want to note the foreign support of Ukraine at the front of the page, in order to make it more user friendly and easier to note and realize ByzantineIsNotRoman ( talk) 19:50, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
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I propose that the section about the first phase of the Russo-Ukrainian war (untill February 2015) be split into a separate page called first phase of the Russo-Ukrainian war or 2014 Russian invasion of Ukraine or 2014 Russian military intervention in Ukraine or Russian invasion of Crimea adn Donbas or propose your name. See also [30]. These sections are large and well-sourced enough to make its own page.
This page is about the whole war from 2014 till now. We have an article about the full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine, but it was the second invasion of this war. The first was in 2014, and information about it is scattered between Russo-Ukrainian War, Timeline of the war in Donbas (2014), Timeline of the annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation and others. Skovl ( talk) 18:36, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
Articles exist for Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation and War in Donbas (2014–2022).See here for notice. WP:A10 is an article that duplicates an existing topic. There is no reasonable reason to have an article 2014 Russian invasion of Crimea and Donbas when we have Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation and War in Donbas (2014–2022). Cinderella157 ( talk) 00:34, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
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the general tone of the article is biased towards Ukraine 87.212.196.214 ( talk) 09:40, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
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change A. Zakharchenko to A. Zakharchenko X Sergey Aksyonov ( talk) 02:53, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
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change
A. Zakharchenko
(2014–2018) to
A. Zakharchenko
†
(2014–2018)
Sergey Aksyonov (
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01:02, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
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it is also proved that Russian troops carried out the looting of world cultural property
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/01/14/these-are-some-of-the-most-famous-ukrainian-works-of-art-looted-by-russia/?sh=323dfd989b77 Dmytro1888UAZOV1888 ( talk) 07:39, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
Despite the war starting on the 20th of February, 2 days before the ousting of Yanukovych, the Revolution wasn’t part of the war. We should remove that image. TankDude2000 ( talk) 08:40, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
The prices have recovered to pre-war levels. 90.156.66.120 ( talk) 07:47, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
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Add Iran as supporter of Russia in belligerents section. There are already 5 sources in the "international relations" section confirming this. Hholdenday ( talk) 14:00, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
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There are still debates on whether the invasion of Crimea (the start of the Russo-Ukrainian War) started on February 20 or 23, so I guess that we should replace February 20 with February 20/23. WikiManUser21 ( talk) 17:33, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
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Czello (
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17:37, 10 May 2023 (UTC)Hi RadioactiveBoulevardier, could you explain the issues you have with this edit?
In his speech justifying the invasion of Ukraine, Putin falsely claimed that NATO military infrastructure was being built up inside Ukraine and was a threat to Russia.- This is in line with the sources and is surely an important thing to mention, as it was one of Putin's main excuses for invading.
NATO says it is not at war with Russia; its official policy is that it does not seek confrontation with Russia, but rather its members support Ukraine in "its right to self-defense, as enshrined in the UN Charter".If one party is accusing another of starting a war, I think it's important to mention what the other party has to say about that. My wording closely follows what the source says.
Russian leaders described this expansion as a violation of Western powers' informal assurances that NATO would not expand eastward→
Putin claimed Western powers broke promises that NATO would not let any Eastern European countries join- This is more in line with the sources. Also "NATO expansion" is a term used in Russian propaganda to imply military expansion/conquest. The more neutral term is enlargement.
Thanks. – Asarlaí ( talk) 08:40, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
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Due to the lack of independent reporters on the ground - or first-hand reports from the battlefield - perhaps Wikipedia could/should question some of the more notorious Washington-backed media outfits and much of their wilder/more outrageous claims of anti-Russian human rights abuses? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.27.2.24 ( talk) 16:51, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
But do you not people understand that, while US media might not be DIRECTLY state controlled - it does tend the follow the Govt/corporate line? Given that this line in strongly anti-Russian, is it little suprise that nation/corporate media outlets tend to reflect this line in their 'reporting'? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.27.2.24 ( talk) 17:25, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
But does not that miss the point that, here in the UK, most media outlets take their lead from the US corporate media and Govt? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.27.2.24 ( talk) 17:38, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
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"Ukrainian forces have also been accused of committing various war crimes, including mistreatment of detainees, though on a much smaller scale than Russian forces." ? 151.36.12.52 ( talk) 12:26, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
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Change "the Euromaidan protests" to "the far-right U.S.-backed Euromaidan protests" [31] Chances last a finite time ( talk) 13:40, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
avowedly partisanwith a focus on
political commentary and opinionrather than on
news report[ing]in this discussion. Hence, the warning on WP:RSP to consider both NPOV and due weight when using the source. This is even more a concern when considering applying contentious labels which should be avoided without a wide consensus between sources and even then be applied with in-text attribution, rather than in wikivoice. Mr rnddude ( talk) 14:21, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
Editors should take care to adhere to the neutral point of view policy when using Jacobin as a source in articles, for example by quoting and attributing statements that present its authors' opinions, and ensuring that due weight is given to their perspective amongst others'.Including a contentious statement based on a partisan source is not due weight. — Czello ( music) 14:34, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
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ScottishFinnishRadish (
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13:44, 23 May 2023 (UTC)Given that information contained within this article points to American meddling in the internal affairs of the Ukraine, is it not reasonable to mention how the "US-Backed, Far Right–Led Revolution in Ukraine Helped Bring Us to the Brink of War"? For while the "American agents of influence would prefer different language to describe their activities — democratic assistance, demooocracy promotion, civil society support, etc", are there not indications that their (dirty) work, however labeled, "seeks to influence political change in Ukraine"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.27.2.85 ( talk) 18:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
Based on the amount of drone, microchips and body armour that have been donated from Iran to Russia, and even the fact that they have sent actual troops to help with drone operation. I think it would be justified to add Iran to the "Supported by" section in the belligerents on the russian side
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/iran-sent-troops-ukraine-help-russia-use-iranian-made-drones-biden-adm-rcna53277#:~:text=The%20U.S.%20has%20evidence%20that,Biden%20administration%20officials%20said%20Thursday. Source for Iranian troops sent to the war Hholdenday ( talk) 19:40, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
Basically completely wrong page there were no russian war against ukraine. You can say easily that the war was USA vs Ukraine because usa trained a lot of ukraine militaries during this time. Why it’s not saying anything about massacre in Donetsk ? Bombing civil houses by ukranian army and killing a lot of civil people in donetsk and Luhansk ? Navi86 ( talk) 07:03, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
Since people do not tend to talk about an 'Independent' France, Germany or USA, why are is this word being used in relation to the Ukraine? If the article is to be considered natural, should it not avoid questionable or loaded terms? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.151.2.120 ( talk) 19:01, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
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correct the start of the Russian and Ukrainian war, separating Crimea annexation as it misleads making people think the war started back in 2014. 84.65.90.61 ( talk) 15:27, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
Can something be said about the possible impact of the drone attacks on Moscow? For, together with German panzers being sent to the Eastern Front, such attacks can only prove to the Russian people that their their country is in real danger. That said, how are people world-wide to view such attacks? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.151.2.82 ( talk) 11:22, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
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The article is also overly protected by admins who add original-research information to this website. Like since when has the period from 2014 until 2022 been referred to as the Russo ukrainian war? There was 0 fighting between russia and ukraine during that whole period aside from clashes which killed only 500 RUSSIANS during the whole 8 year period. Literally all media sources use this article’s name for the post-2022 invasion (not gonna include sources, i think you can use common sense and go google that name and see the sources for yourself). This is a huge problem, because pro-putinists sometimes use the argument that ukraine has been bombing ethnic russians since 2014 and this article and its naming could be used to support their argument. It should be renamed back to “Russian involvement in the War in Donbass (2014–2022)” or, Ukraine crisis (2014–2015 or 2022) (BTW, this article is just a copy and paste of War in Donbass (2014–2022) except other not very related events were put together into one so called “war”. If this huge war somehow begun all the way back in 2014 then i must’ve had a lobotomy done on me without me knowing. 88.245.197.160 ( talk) 17:32, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
since Ukraine is obviously supported by these countries and some of their military equipment, those of the United States in particular, are used by Anti-Putin groups; in the spirit of unbiasness & accurate reporting isn't this a fair move? 41.116.40.211 ( talk) 13:23, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
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Should the Freedom of Russia Legion be added to the belligerents? TheCalmEAK ( talk) 07:55, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
'Russian public opinion...
...According to some sources, a reason many Russians supported the "special military operation" has to do with the propaganda and disinformation'.
So it would seem that the only 'propaganda and disinformation' is that put out by Moscow, and that Washington would hardly ever use media outlets push an anti-Russian agenda? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.166.199 ( talk) 13:26, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
The Russian invasion of Ukraine violated
international law (including the
Charter of the United Nations).
This sentence is supported by nothing but newspaper editorials. No international body has formally investigated and determined that a breach of statute has occurred. This statement certainly does not follow NPOV, and it may be defamatory as well. I would remove it myself, but (surprise surprise) pro-Ukrainian and pro-US Wikipedia editors have locked the article.
2600:1700:6730:F090:58C2:70AD:C99F:2ADA (
talk)
09:39, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Russo is not a country name, please change name or delete article 85.249.163.121 ( talk) 19:18, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
The OP seems to be based on a lack of understanding of English and appropriate prefix demonyms in compounded words such as this title. WP:CIR applies. Explanation has bee given. I don't see any point in keeping this discussion open. Cinderella157 ( talk) 02:00, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
OK I am out, if the IP wants to use racist slurs that sums it up. No we should not change the name to an insult. Slatersteven ( talk) 09:17, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
Why there is no information about minks agreement and request from russia to protect people in donents es and lughansk in 2014-2022? Minsk agreements 62.217.186.162 ( talk) 12:58, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
War started in 2022,if you think differnt than please provide link from 2014-2021 where any sources saying that war started between ukraine and russian before 02.2022 62.217.186.162 ( talk) 12:34, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
That abbreviation is spreading hate and my suggestion to rename to khohol was considered as racists. However, russo is racist slang for russian speakers as well. If you think that russo is common abbreviation that provide link to russian sources when russian people talk about themselves as russo. moreover russo means Russo (surname) 62.217.186.162 ( talk) 12:31, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
War started in 2022, if you think it started in 2014 then add official resources 85.249.163.121 ( talk) 19:15, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
Sources 2014
Sources 2015
[ [45]]
This needs closing. Slatersteven ( talk) 13:50, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
The comment could be made that Wagner and other private militias on the Russian side are not acting independently and are just part of Russia. However, the Freedom Russian Legion and the Russian Volunteer Corps are taking part in the war, while being independent from any of the armies. 84.125.94.214 ( talk) 06:32, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
Given the revolt by Wagner in the last 24 hours, should Wagner be included in the belligerents list now? How has Wikipedia previously handled other mercenary revolts throughtout history? 2001:56A:7130:8700:FD4A:AD7E:689D:B682 ( talk) 16:21, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Why is the Russian opposition not written in this Infobox even though it is written as hostile in other articles in Infobox? Parham wiki ( talk) 11:15, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
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Add
Russian opposition (from 2022) to infobox, Russian opposition due to
2022–2023 Belarusian and Russian partisan movement Including the
2023 Belgorod Oblast incursions, the
Wagner Group rebellion (In the article
Opposition to Vladimir Putin in Russia#2023 Wagner rebellion, the Wagner Group rebellion is part of the Russian opposition.), and the
Anti-war protests in Russia (2022–present) should be added as hostile.
Parham wiki (
talk)
09:25, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
Not done for now: please establish a
consensus for this alteration
before using the
{{
Edit extended-protected}}
template.
Xan747 (
talk)
23:21, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
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I want to add casuality numbers released for Russian side as cited below.
Two independent Russian media outlets, Mediazona and Meduza, working with a data scientist from Germany’s Tübingen University. APT141 ( talk) 12:14, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
Belarus only supported the invasion so remove Lukashenko in the infobox. Parham wiki ( talk) 11:09, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
Should we keep the hyphen in the title or change it to a dash? WikipedianRevolutionary ( talk) 19:38, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
Should we change Ukrainian crisis in the first sentence to Ukraine crisis? I mean, that’s how most sources reffered to it in the beginning. WikipedianRevolutionary ( talk) 12:38, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
We should change this page to War in Ukraine. It’s the most common title (most sources use it) and it’s also neutral (Ukraine reffers it to “Russo-Ukrainian War”, while Russia reffers it to “Special Military Operation in Ukraine” or something like that.) WikipedianRevolutionary ( talk) 18:53, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
I think the
Russian opposition (from 2022) should be added to infobox, Russian opposition due to
2022–2023 Belarusian and Russian partisan movement Including the
2023 Belgorod Oblast incursions, the
Wagner Group rebellion (In the article
Opposition to Vladimir Putin in Russia#2023 Wagner rebellion, the Wagner Group rebellion is part of the Russian opposition.), and the
Anti-war protests in Russia (2022–present) should be added as hostile.
Parham wiki (
talk)
00:43, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
@
Edward-Woodrow: I mean write this in the infobox (it shouldn't be in "supported by:" like Belarus):
Ukraine
Russian opposition (from 2022)
Parham wiki (
talk)
07:57, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
This heading suggests that the USA is separate from NATO.It is an integral part of the alliance and the heading should reflect that by stating just NATO. The contribution of each ally can turn be detailed in the body of the article. 2A00:23C7:D38A:8B01:25BB:A435:E33A:A6F6 ( talk) 10:13, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
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Add North Korea to the belligerents on Russia’s side. They have officially joined the war in Ukraine. 82.132.186.20 ( talk) 21:35, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Kyiv Bans Import of Russian Books
As reported by REUTERS - and highlighted in todays I newspaper - the Ukrainian President has just signed a new law banning the import of books from Russia. Together with reports of the banning of Russian in Ukrainian schools, the negative effects of such laws must be of real concern. For what next, the Burning of the (Russia) Books? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.166.130 ( talk) 18:29, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
Okay, while Wikipedia is not a Talking Shop, is not the Banning of the Books an issue of some concern? Given this, might not the full impact of such laws on the Russians living within the Ukraine be highlighted? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.166.153 ( talk) 18:54, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
Then again, if Wikipedia is to avoid pushing a one-sided point or view, should it not highlight reports that the Ukraine Govt is eliminating Russian-language education for Russians, and is imposing anti-Russian re-education on Ukrainian children? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.166.130 ( talk) 09:10, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
Bans/Banning:
the gays from Admiral Kostyukov. Banned. Discussion about the war in Ukraine. In German . For example . Support the Topic: "It is not necessary to morganize (assert - an absolute necessity) Ukraine". Support / Discussionis not possible.
I’ve started a discussion about coverage of WMD in the conflict at Talk:Russian invasion of Ukraine#WMD. — Michael Z. 17:20, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
The related image appears in the collage in the infobox.
Russian-backed forces during the Donbas warwith the edit summary: "NPOV: "Proxy" makes for a very loaded descriptor, doesn't make sense to use it in the captions when the rest of the lead seems pretty consistent with "pro-Russian" as the preferred term instead" [46]
There are a number of reasons why the use of proxy in the caption Russian proxy forces during the Donbas war is inappropriate.
easily understood language(ie plain English and, per WP:TONE:
the article should not be written using argot, slang, colloquialisms, doublespeak, legalese, or jargon.
The caption should be changed to "Russian-backed forces during the Donbas war". The lead should be change as follows:
Per the body of the article, In 2015, Russian separatist forces were estimated to number around 36,000 troops (compared to 34,000 Ukrainian), of whom 8,500–10,000 were Russian soldiers. Additionally, around 1,000 GRU troops were operating in the area.[158] Another 2015 estimate held that Ukrainian forces outnumbered Russian forces 40,000 to 20,000.[159] In 2017, on average one Ukrainian soldier died in combat every three days,[160] with an estimated 6,000 Russian and 40,000 separatist troops in the region.
[Line of conflict stabilizes (2015–2021) section] It is clear that Ukraine continued to face both Russian and separist forces in the Donbas.
Cinderella157 (
talk)
00:41, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
The primary issue here is the use of proxy in the subject caption. The main issue is that it is ambiguously used but also, it is neither supported nor explained by this iteration of the article in the body of the article. We should be using WP:PLAINENGLISH - that is unambiguous and readily understood. Russian-backed separatist forces or Russian-controlled separatist forces are descriptions that are unambiguous and readily understood. Consequently, the caption should be replaced. A second issue arises from the use of proxies in the lead where the normal meaning of this is one that acts for and in the absence of another. The Russians have been present since near the start of the war. The term is not being used consistent with its usual meaning. While some sources may use the term to describe the separatists as proxies, there is nuance to how and why they use this description which is neither supported by nor explained in this iteration of the body of the article. Again, we should be using plain English. While I do not dispute that sources would describe the separatists as Russian controlled, it is again, something that is neither supported by nor explained in this iteration of the body of the article - as far as I can see. An article must be contained within itself. If we are to say this, then the article needs to be modified. At the very least, we would need a citation to a good quality source where it is stated - this is, after all, a claim that could be seen as exceptional. Cinderella157 ( talk) 09:36, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
Shouldn't at least 1 other show something WP:DUEly relevant to Ukraine? Maybe them defending inside a building or something? It seems like too much of a focus on one party in a war for an infobox, I think it would be better to add two images than replace one DarmaniLink ( talk) 19:01, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
Pro-Ukrainian Wikipedia editors should be careful here. For might not such images be useful in highlighting UN reports about the way Ukrainian forces have used civilian building as fire bases? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.166.182 ( talk) 14:12, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
While keen to keep its' troops out of harms way, the US is willing to spend billions on arms, training and other aid to maintain the conflict in the Ukraine. Given this, might there not be a section called: 'US Support for a Proxy War'?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.110.75.83 ( talk • contribs)
The Donbas War was a Russian proxy war in the sense that Russians working for the Kremlin came to Ukraine and started it, the Kremlin had overall control of its forces there from April or May 2014, and its “New Russia” project had too little local support to continue fighting using solely its irregular cadrés and local proxies, so was forced to send in mechanized formations from August 2014 to February 2015 to keep from watching them get pushed to the Russian border.
Since February 2022, it is not a proxy war in this sense, that it exists only due to a foreign power’s influence, at all. Russia openly invaded, is integrating the “DLNR” forces into its own (using them up in meatwaves and bulking them up with mobiks), and is forcibly changing the demographic composition of the territories it occupied before and since the invasion (accused of genocide, and its head of state a fugitive rom justice).
Ukrainians led by their elected government stopped the Russian invasion before they were provided anything more than insurgency weapons, and many sources predict they would have and still would continue fighting with no foreign support at all.
It might be considered a proxy war by some reliable sources in the sense that 70 states are aiding Ukraine against an adversary. This is a weaker and less clear sense of the word, and it is not what Russian, anti-Ukrainian, “anti-globalist,” and US isolationist propaganda mean when they use this word. I suspect it’s not used this way by many of them, because of its wide misuse, and because it means radically different things when referring to Russian proxy forces and the Ukrainians, and its use risks confusing issues and playing into the hands of Kremlin propagandists and their fellow travellers.
Because the term is loaded and ambiguous, it should probably be glossed on first use, especially when used to refer to aid to Ukraine. I think this article needs to address this question head-on by explaining changing views on the Russian role (e.g., what RS used to label “occupied by Russian-backed separatists” on maps is now labelled “Russian occupied before February 24, 2022.”. — Michael Z. 23:49, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
at the instigation or on behalf of). A Kenyan, Nigerian or Indian newspaper might be a highly reliable source for events in that respective country, but still not fit for use in this article, see WP:RSCONTEXT and the following sections. Also, we have far better sources than just news. I personally recommend Andreas Kappeler, Serhii Plokhy, and Timothy Snyder, all of them high-profile historians who cover the war in their recent publications, demonstrating that Ukraine is fighting for its existence as a nation, and not at the instigation or on behalf of anybody else. Rsk6400 ( talk) 06:52, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
a section called: 'US Support for a Proxy War'
, as Essex IP had suggested?The decline in Hong Kong's ranking on the Press Freedom Index published annually by Reporters Without Borders has been vertiginous: it stood at 148th in 2022, having dropped 68 places from the year prior; it ranked 71st place in 2015, from our article on Censorship in Hong Kong. Please note that the RfC pre-dates the drop. A quick perusal normally is not enough for judging the quality of a paper. The people who control the Chinese media are often quite intelligent and know the tricks, like selecting those news that seem to support their ideology and suppressing the other ones, even adding some news that seem to contradict their normal views to gain credibility, and so on. The Chinese government is a close ally of Russia, so they are taking active interest in Ukraine, and they certainly don't like the idea that a revolution could topple an authoritarian regime and lead to a democracy. Rsk6400 ( talk) 06:40, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
Then again, within Washington, does there not remain a number of would-be Rambows that cannot admit the cold war is over? For they retain an interest in waging any kind of warfare, or using any tactics, to undermine Russia (or any other national that stands in their way). While not willing to allow American troops to kill and be killed, are not these latter-day Dr Strange Loves more than wiling to let the Ukrainians die for their aims? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.166.182 ( talk) 16:17, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
if I understand you correctly, because they allegedly ...Wrong again. What I wanted to point out is that we don't count reliable sources, but that we carefully weigh "[E]ach source ... to judge whether it is reliable for the statement being made", see WP:RSCONTEXT. A high-profile scholar is better than a newspaper and a newspaper with expertise on Ukraine is better than one without. If you have good (i.e. as good as the scholars I mentioned or better) sources calling the war a "proxy war", feel free to present them. Rsk6400 ( talk) 15:48, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
Note it does not matter if we can find definitions of proxy war that fit this, we need RS saying it is a proxy war, not our
wp:or.
Slatersteven (
talk)
10:09, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
There are chechen groups in ukraine fighting against the russians [1] [2], so you can guys add "Chechen volunteers" in the interface? Jaztie não é árabe ( talk) 23:04, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
References
Please provide input at the subject discussion. The question arises because supported by is now deprecated. Cinderella157 ( talk) 01:04, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
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Due to the
2023 Tver plane crash in which Yevgeny Prigozhin is presumed dead, the infobox should be updated to reflect that. I assume this would be done by adding a {{PKIA}}
right after his name in on the Commanders section, or whatever classification is applicable as I cannot find any documentation for what to use in a situation like this.
Condenser
Coil
17:58, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
{{
Edit extended-protected}}
template.
M.Bitton (
talk)
12:01, 28 August 2023 (UTC)It isn’t a proposition for edits, but I want to ask people’s opinions on what exactly happened here. Like what is it the largest factor leading to Russia invading Ukraine. I am of the opinion that NATO expansion is the largest factor, but I don’t want to get stuck in an echo chamber. Velockies ( talk) 13:45, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Procedural close. According to WP:GS/RUSUKR only extended-confirmed users may start this kind of discussion. ( non-admin closure) Rsk6400 ( talk) 16:55, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
Russo-Ukrainian War → Russo–Ukrainian War – Relation is indicated with an en dash (e.g. Soviet–Afghan War), not a hyphen. ― Ö S M A N ( talk · contribs) 13:32, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
At the same time as President Volodymyr Zelensky sacks "every regional head of recruitment", BBC News reports that the Ukraine "constantly needs to replace the tens of thousands who've been killed or injured in the war."
However, while some men don't want to fight, thousands "have left the country, sometimes after bribing officials, and others are finding ways of dodging recruitment officers."
Give this latest news, have Wikipedia any plans for a section on Ukrainian causality and recruitment problems?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.166.181 ( talk • contribs)
This is likely not appropriate for this main article unless it becomes more serious and significant. However, you’re welcome to make the request at Talk:Russian invasion of Ukraine or Talk:2023 Ukrainian counteroffensive. RadioactiveBoulevardier ( talk) 18:36, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
The word 'conflict' in the very first words of this great article imply that we don't talk about the reality: an invasion', an 'agression', an 'unprovoked attack' 2A02:A03F:6159:7500:413B:7639:F85E:B4BF ( talk) 21:24, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
What about calling it a Conflict on Russia's Doorstep? For, despite promises not to, NATO continues to move it's bases ever-closer to Russia. With such an hostile move, is it any wonder that the Russians view the actions of NATO with more than a little concern? Consider how the US reacted then the USSR placed missiles is Cuba. For are we saying/admitting that it is okay for the US to have Areas of National Interest around the globe - but no one else? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.166.232 ( talk) 16:14, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
@ RadioactiveBoulevardier: The third thing I forgot to mention was that Yevgeny Prigozhin removed the Wagner group from Ukraine before his death. Such a procedure was implemented for John F. Kennedy in the Bay of Pigs invasion and Template was not used. Parham wiki ( talk) 11:14, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
@ Cinderella157 reverted [54] my edit to the lead with the edit summary “what does that really mean?,” where I had changed the definition of one side in the conflict from #1 to #2:
Russia alongside Russian-backed separatists
Russia exerting de-facto control over Russian-backed separatists
The problem with #1 is that Russia hasn’t been fighting alongside anyone for the duration of this conflict, and to say so represents an extremely non-neutral POV.
The article states “By April 2014, Russian citizens had taken control of the separatist movement, supported by volunteers and materiel from Russia, including Chechen and Cossack fighters.” Recent sources describe the non-government-controlled territory as “Russian-occupied before February 2022” or similar. The Dutch court found that the Russian-led militants were under “overall control” of Russia by mid May of 2014. Plokhy 2023, The Russo-Ukrainian War, says:
The source then describes how Russia started using Tornado rocket launchers July 13, started shooting down Ukrainian aviation with heavy AD missiles July 14, etcetera.
Russia wasn’t “alongside” any militants: it controlled them, and fought directly in Ukraine with its own mechanized forces, early on. The lead should reflect the reality. — Michael Z. 02:54, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
“Alongside separatists” is incorrect. Were there both Russians and Russian-backed separatists [from Ukraine] fighting against Ukrainians? The answer is yes. The statement is accurate. What does
exerting de-facto control overmean? De-facto would be redundant and the conclusions you would be citing do not find that the separatists were always under Russian control. There is a net defecit to readability by the edit with no mitigating benefit. Cinderella157 ( talk) 04:24, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
Thank you. Is it too soon to now discuss rephrasing “and supported pro-Russian separatists fighting the Ukrainian military”? This makes it sound like Ukrainian separatists started a war and Russia sent them money and Amazon deliveries. But Russians started the shooting war, Russia soon controlled the militants, Russian mercenaries and mechanized formations of the RAF fought in it. It was exclusively an international conflict, and not a civil war or both. — Michael Z. 17:43, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
Can someone with edit permissions, in section History > War in the Donbas > Mariupol offensive and first Minsk ceasefire, change the sentence:
to
98.207.204.157 ( talk) 15:52, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
Considering Russian military losses are almost 300,000, Ukraine's not much less, and all the civilian casualties, isn't it time to revise the absurdity that is 'tens of thousands' of deaths resulting from this hideous war?
There were 'tens of thousands' of deaths just in-and-around Mariupol last year. 2A02:2378:102E:78D5:F5E0:C158:5A3B:C0CF ( talk) 18:58, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
I suggest changing Belligerents to Main belligerents in infobox because Iran, Belarus (some argue that Belarus is a belligerent and cited a source), Wagner group, Chechen Republic of Ichkeria, Black Brigade Bridge and many partisan groups are not in infobox.
Parham wiki (
talk)
20:13, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
@ Slatersteven: What is your concern? Parham wiki ( talk) 13:33, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
Crimea's history as a territory of pre-Soviet Russia, as well as it's short-lived post-Soviet independence from either Russia or Ukraine that ended in 1994, I would say are an essential and fundamental part of understanding Russia's claim and attitude towards Crimea. I believe there should be at least one paragraph covering this under "Background," preceding all that is already written there. Isz Chepewéssin ( talk) 00:58, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
"Ukrainian forces have also been accused of committing various war crimes, including mistreatment of detainees, though on a much smaller scale than Russian forces" in the Human Rights Violations section, though sourced, goes against the guideline of maintaining a neutral stance. According to the source they gave, this is true. However Ukraine's human rights abuses are widely documented, including by the US State Department, Human Rights Watch, and Amnesty International. 50.247.119.46 ( talk) 09:10, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
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This original text: “…Russia had no plans to occupy the country. Russian forces invaded Ukraine. The invasion was…”
Should be changed to: “…Russia had no plans to occupy the country. Russian forces subsequently invaded Ukraine. The invasion was…”
The addition of “subsequently” improves the flow of the text. Miaguy13 ( talk) 03:03, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
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I would like to suggest the addition to the article in the section of "Human rights violations" a mention of the deliberate targeting of health care, which will likely top 1500 incidents in the extremely near future, or perhaps a small note about this, with a link to the article i maintain - /info/en/?search=Russian_strikes_on_hospitals_during_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine Kevin3452 ( talk) 21:30, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
Only extended-confirmed editors may make edits related to the topic area. The talk namespace is the only area you may edit in, and without engaging in project internal discussions. This isn't your fault, an EC page lock hasn't been placed on the page, and I don't see the edits presently made as being disruptive, but you should be notified of the restriction nonetheless. Mr rnddude ( talk) 00:09, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
The redirect
2014 Ukraine crisis has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 February 21 § 2014 Ukraine crisis until a consensus is reached.
Yorkporter (
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21:09, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
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Adding Romania to the spill-overs, like Poland, as dozens of drones and missiles hit the Romanian territory. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66727788 Mariusx12 ( talk) 17:10, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
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Adding "Romania" to the locations in the infobox, after Poland and before Moldova as i told before but i explained it wrong, thank you for the understanding. Sources: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66727788
https://www.politico.eu/article/nato-romania-accuses-russia-of-irresponsible-escalation-over-drone-crash/ Mariusx12 ( talk) 15:36, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
https://www.wsj.com/world/ukraine-is-now-fighting-russia-in-sudan-87caf1d8
WSJ reports Ukrainian forces combatting Russian Contractors in Sudan. This is corroborated by videos and media released by Ukraine. Could this mean Sudan gets added to the ‘Location’ section? Maxttck ( talk) 22:29, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
Not conflict. Children are bombarded also. Women, families. It is unfair. Thanks for correcting your title. Youth will remember you for a very long time. Pottier2023 ( talk) 17:08, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
This war started in 2022, not 2014. Donbas war ignited from 2014-15 and afterwards there was a frozen conflict involving russian-armed rebels with ceasefire violations in which only a few hundred russian soldiers died which does not even constitute a war but rather a small scale direct russian intervention. The real full-scale war started after 2022 and every single source says this, i don’t even need to provide sources as it is common sense 78.174.190.122 ( talk) 08:02, 22 January 2024 (UTC)