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The consensus is against the lead using the Working Definition of Antisemitism, including all its examples, as the definitive definition of antisemitism.
Should the lead use the Working Definition of Antisemitism, including all its examples, as the definitive definition of antisemitism?
Our current lede definition is very different, and doesn't explicitly include " new antisemitism" (i.e. certain criticism of Israel) as a core component. This question has been discussed before, at #/Archive 32#A way forward? Proposal on using EUMC definition, also see #/Archive 31#EUMC/FRA "Working definition", but this was prior to the wider adoption of the Working Definition by various world governmental organizations. Onceinawhile ( talk) 20:57, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
"religion or ethnicity". Bus stop ( talk) 01:26, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
Manifestations might include the targeting of the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic.or for example
Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination. Normal criticism of Israel does not run foul of the definition, only criticism that treats Israel in an exceptional manner in relation to other states. Icewhiz ( talk) 19:36, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
opposes codifying the language into law, although he still endorses the language for its intended use — as a means for diplomats to identify anti-Semitism.- so he opposes free-speech restrictions (which would seem the crux of the argument before the committee) - but still thinks that the definition is correct. For the most part, controversies here have revolved around groups widely perceived and accused as antisemitic who challenge the definition and on the right to engage in antisemitic discourse as part of freedom of speech. Icewhiz ( talk) 21:26, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
Your question is not neutral because it implie that the New definition implies ANY criticism of Israel is antisemitic, when that is not the case. Sir Joseph (talk) 21:02, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
GHcool put in the lede, "It has also been characterized as a political ideology which serves as an organizing principle and unites disparate groups which are opposed to liberalism.[6]" This is a minority point of view - is the source even RS? Skingski ( talk) 17:05, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion regarding whether a letter from a number of Orthodox Rabbis should be included in the “Allegations of antisemitism and responses” section of the Jeremy Corbyn page. Arguments for and against are in the “Letter from Orthodox Rabbis is Valid” section of the talk page. Please view and vote if this interests you. See /info/en/?search=Talk:Jeremy_Corbyn#RfC_about_a_letter_from_Orthodox_Rabbis Burrobert ( talk) 11:39, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
I want to help edit this article, but I am reluctant to do so, since editing restrictions might be enforced here. Are editors of this article required to abide by the same restrictions that are being enforced on other articles about antisemitism, such as Talk:Antisemitism in the Arab world? Jarble ( talk) 02:52, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
I would argue that antisemitism typically means hatred of Jews as an ethnic group, but some would argue it includes faith too. 2605:6001:E7C4:1E00:97C:B01C:4E8A:1D96 ( talk) 23:22, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
The opening definition of anti-Semitism as a prejudice against Jews is inadequate and misleading. The suggested replacement definitions on this page are somewhat better but still inadequate.
The core of anti-Semitism is a belief in a great and somewhat conspiratorial power of "the Jews" or a specific group of Jews such as "the Jewish bankers" or "Zionism". Most anti-Semites argue that they aren't against Jews per se but only whatever they consider to be the dangerous powerful conspiratorial group of Jews, although at the same time they usually argue that there are group characteristics of Jews in general that make them prone to be a part of the power structure and conspiracy.
Anti-Semitism is a combination of sociological pejorative characterization with conspiracy theory. Pure conspiracy theories, bereft of sociological reference groups as natural conspirators, are not as dangerous, nor as likely to get a mass of believers. Nor are pure sociological pejoratives as dangerous.
Anti-Semites typically say that "some of my best friends are Jews" and use this as an argument for denying that they are anti-Semites; Nazis have famously done this, and also talked about how poor Jews are OK, while continuing with their conspiracy theories about "the Jews" and "the rich Jews" and "the Zionists" and the "international Jewish bankers". Misdefinition of anti-Semitism as a general personal or social distaste for Jews makes this argument sound logical. I know someone, a libertarian world federalist leader (unusual combination there), who for years has freely made up accusations about Israel doing terrible things and talks a lot about the Jewish lobby being all-powerful, and can't imagine that he's an anti-Semite, because he has Jewish friends and probably really does not have any social Judophobia.
One could speak of personal anti-Jewish feelings as social Judophobia, or parlor anti-Semitism. It used to be widespread among Anglo elites, even while those elites often provided the best refuge to Jews available in the world and generally avoided the anti-Semitic ideologies that were spreading dangerously elsewhere. Real anti-Semitism, anti-Semitism per se, is something else, and something much more.
There is also a popular line that "the Arabs are Semites too, so we can't be anti-Semites"; that too goes back to the Nazis, if not earlier. Definition of anti-Semitism as primarily or entirely a racial ideology makes this argument sound logical. The racial ideology should be called "racial anti-Semitism", or "race ideology anti-Semitism", not used as the definition of anti-Semitism in general.
But anti-Semitism in general, or anti-Semitic ideology in general, is something else -- something larger, more about conspiracy, less about race. Race is just one of the sociological props that can be plugged into anti-Semitic conspiracy ideologies. Theories of minorities as disruptors and disintegrators of society, and about commercial classes and middlemen as exploiters and "culture vultures", are other theories that can be a part of anti-Semitic conspiracy theory, without any need for a racial component.
What is true is that all these things - anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, the big hidden Jewish power, some collective Jewish purpose that is hidden and against the rest of society or the world, social pejoratives, racial theory, religious intrinsic-enemy theories, sociological intrinsic subversive-minority theories, beliefs in a conspiracy of the Jewish religion to conquer the world going all the way back to Isaiah or earlier, -- tend to go together. But not all components of that amalgam are needed for something to qualify as "anti-Semitism". And many of those components do not by themselves qualify as anti-Semitism, absent some of the others.
The crux of it is that enough of these components are woven into a theory about a dangerous Jewish power, part-hidden or disguised or deceptive, and thus conspiratorial. That is what makes it a thing, a noun, anti-Semitism, an ideology, an "ism". Which is something more than an adjective, an "ic", anti-Semitic -- an attitude or belief that is not kind to Jews. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.255.90.236 ( talk) 21:13, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
Please update citation 40. The page no longer exists as linked. Possible update https://www.state.gov/s/rga/resources/267538.htm Pbmax ( talk) 20:16, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
Bus stop's recent edit is a total non-starter, in my opinion. "Jews metaphysically cause antisemitism by not being good enough" has no place in the "causes" section of a serious encyclopedia article. – Roscelese ( talk ⋅ contribs) 20:58, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
"Jews metaphysically cause antisemitism by not being good enough". I made this edit which followed on this edit by @ Tridy:. Bus stop ( talk) 21:45, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
"Jews metaphysically cause antisemitism by not being good enough"yet you are enclosing that in quotation marks. Why do you feel this material would be inappropriate for this article? Bus stop ( talk) 02:11, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
"Since assimilation is antithetical to God's design for the Jewish people, what can God do to keep His promise that the Jews will never become extinct? A cornerstone of Jewish monotheism is the insistence that everything – everything – comes from God, the one and only source. At the same time, He has given human beings free choice in the moral realm. Humans may not be able to choose what happens to them, but they are always choosing between right and wrong, good and evil. So, what if all the Jews in any given generation choose to assimilate into extinction?"
"That's where anti-Semitism comes in. Anti-Semitism is the Divine equivalent of the parent of a diabetic child locking the cookie jar. A Jew in 15th century Spain or 20th century Germany or 21st century America may want to blend in with the surrounding society, but anti-Semitism is a sealed door, strong and black as iron, which keeps him out – and separate. Anti-Semitism keeps the Jewish people from dissipating into oblivion."
"The ubiquitous effort to trace the source of anti-Semitism to the Jews remaining different and aloof – implying that assimilation cures anti-Semitism – is an inversion of the truth. Assimilation is not the antidote to anti-Semitism; anti-Semitism is the Divine antidote to assimilation."
I don't think we are discussing whether this is correct or incorrect or whether you approve or disapprove of this particular tenet of the Jewish religion. This is simply worth noting in our article for no other reason than that it exists. Many more sources can be found supporting this general idea. They are probably all going to be religious sources. A source is not disqualified because it is "religious". What we should be looking for is whether or not a source addresses a topic of an article. Clearly we are concerned with what causes antisemitism, in this article. So, a religious explanation for the existence of antisemitism is as much on topic as a secular explanation for the existence of antisemitism. Bus stop ( talk) 17:25, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
I'd consider a religious explanation of a social phenomenon to have just as much place here as in any other social phenomenon. It wouldn't be appropriate to talk about the devil's meddling in Causes of sexual orientation or female sinfulness in Causes of sexual violence. – Roscelese ( talk ⋅ contribs) 21:33, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
"Has anyone made the argument that a 'religious explanation' isn't appropriate?"Yes, see the two above arguments, one by Roscelese and one by Icewhiz. I think those are both arguments that religious explanations for antisemitism wouldn't be appropriate in this article. Bus stop ( talk) 00:09, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
"religious explanations are as appropriate as they would be in an article on evolution"There is a difference between evolution and antisemitism. One is of particular concern to Jews (antisemitism) and the other is equally of concern to people of any identity (evolution). This is not the article about evolution. This is the article about antisemitism. Bus stop ( talk) 00:23, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
"a Jewish religious precept, not universally held". Bus stop ( talk) 19:35, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
I don't see many reliable sources discussing this. Jayjg (talk) 21:38, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
here. Doug Weller talk 12:04, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
here. Doug Weller talk 12:04, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
There should be something on this. As Keith Ellison Vice chair of the DNC has made many anti-semeitic comments and Ilham Omar and Rashida are recognized anti-Semites. 173.166.127.233 ( talk) 15:48, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
I would not consider Hareetz a reliable source. They are the anti Israel paper in Israel. The DNC and the Dem Controlled house refused to condemn the anti-Semitism of Ilhan Omar. American Zionist ( talk) 12:42, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 17:07, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard#Islamophobia, Antisemitism, and other religious hate in "racism in X" articles may be of interest to talk page watchers here. The issue is whether to include Islamophobia, Antisemitism, and other religious hate in Racism in country X articles. Icewhiz ( talk) 19:32, 3 August 2019 (UTC)
Historically, antisemitism have existed in just about every liberal government with little to no opposition or concern until after WW2. And even at that point it was due to some rather self serving motives in a lot of instances. To equate the interests of Jewish people with one singular ideology that has for most of its history persecuted and excluded Jews is pretty revisionistic. I understand that liberalism is the modern day status quo, and as such it influences popular assumptions about history. But prior to the holocaust, the hotbeds of antisemitism was places like France, England and even Canada. These were all liberal governments, and antisemitism was far from an opposition to their liberal values. Liberal values include borders, visa requirements, travel restrictions, migrant politics, and numerous other things that are incredibly harmful - and often times deadly - to any diasporic people. Whether Jews, Roma, or refugees who were once settled.
It feels a bit propagandistic, and presents this idea that liberals can't be antisemities. In spite of how some of the biggest antisemities in history were liberals, including Tsar Alexander II and Henry Ford. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.69.180.157 ( talk) 15:40, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
EDIT:
Also I didn't notice the Americans bickering here. For clarification: I'm in Europe, when we say liberalism we refer to the politics often framed by enlightenment era philosophy. This includes what is colloquially referred to as conservatives and democrats in the US. So I'm not taking a side there, this is in fact aimed at both sides and those who represent similar politics in Europe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.69.180.157 ( talk) 15:43, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
I'm sorry, you need evidence of that Europe was antisemitic? Remember those countries I mentioned before? Ever read about their stance on Jewish refugees in the 1930s? Liberalism was useless for people who tried to escape the holocaust. British media published headlines such as Hurrah for the blackshirts! and made every effort to antagonise and abuse Jewish people just in the exact same way they're treating refugees today, and this all happened with liberal migration policy. Here, the washington post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/11/17/what-americans-thought-of-jewish-refugees-on-the-eve-of-world-war-ii/?noredirect=on
Fewer than 5 percent of Americans surveyed at the time believed that the United States should raise its immigration quotas or encourage political refugees fleeing fascist states in Europe
Just first result, this is common knowledge for most people interested in history. There's an obvious whitewashing of liberalism's history of antisemitism here, and it's very much akin to holocaust denial, since the antisemitism of liberal countries directly condemned millions of Jews into death camps.
And in fact I got more, the philosophical architects of liberalism itself were antisemites. In the Natural History of Religion, David Hume writes that Jews are inferiour to Christians. Voltarie believed Jews were the direct descendants from Adam and Eve, and therefore called them adamites, and he described them as infecting Europe, which is the same kind of antisemitic rhetoric that existed throughout Europe after the enlightenment era in several liberal countries, and thus can be described as a liberal value. Same with Emmanuel Kant, who could be argued was the key philosopher for the liberal moral framework next to John Locke, also believed Jewish people were inferiour due to immutable traits passed on by birth.
Sources: Michael Mack Phd, Cambridge University, New York Times And Richard Popkin The Philosophical Bases of Modern Racism
The very roots of liberalism is steeped in antisemitism and may very well have influenced modern day antisemitism. How's that for poorly researched? Update: In my research I also found this /info/en/?search=Talk%3ADavid_Hume#Missing_anti-semitism_section So even wikipedia itself has liberal antisemities going around censoring articles like some sort of antisemitic nerd mafia.
Addendum: Since I will not rest until this matter is resolved, I will add more and more research here as I find it, and today I will discuss the effect the US had on antisemitism in Nazi Germany. According to Hitler's American Model: The United States and the Making of Nazi Race Law by James Q Whitman, Princeton University. the US government, a liberal government, had no qualms what so ever with helping the Nazis develop the archetecture of discrimination and dehumanisation that then permitted them to persecute Jewish people. In Great Britain, Jewish people were placed in London's East End. This was an act of segregation, and the East End was known for its poverty, social strife and police abuses. The east end was a ghetto for Jewish people in the 1900s and upwards, even today the East End is stigmatised as a bad part of town. Now is rounding Jewish people up and putting them in ghettos an act of antisemitism or not? My source? Wikipedia itself says so.
The area was notorious for its deep poverty, overcrowding and associated social problems. This led to the East End's history of intense political activism and association with some of the country's most influential social reformers. Another major theme of East End history has been migration, both inward and outward. The area had a strong pull on the rural poor from other parts of England, and attracted waves of migration from further afield, notably Huguenot refugees, who created a new extramural suburb in Spitalfields in the 17th century,[1] Irish weavers,[2] Ashkenazi Jews,[3] and, in the 20th century, Sylheti Bangladeshis.[4]
Is segregating Jews into ghettos only antisemitism when non liberals do it, or will you start reporting the facts responsibly? Also, my proposal here is that we change it from saying it's the opposite of liberal values, which is outright propaganda. Into something more unbiased and true, to say that it is against egalitarian values. Thereby recognising people and thinkers from all ends of the political spectrum who takes the responsibility to treat people fairly, and act with social justice in mind. 78.69.180.157 ( talk) 19:03, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
You don't have to tell me, I'm Roma. I live in a segregated area right now, among Yugoslavs, Africans and Afghanis. You say this is like some kind of big coincidence, but it seems we're always getting the worser end of the stick. It seems like whenever liberal governments have to choose between racism and economic reform, racism always wins, and then they shrug and claim it's a big coincidence. But coincidences are not patterns that exist throughout history. This is not equal treatment. When the white middle class migrates they're called expats, and get to live in nice places. I don't buy into this excuse, and neither does most of the people you're talking about. The economy is as manmade as the rest of society, and so are its outcomes. Also, like I said, my sole proposal is to change it from Liberal Values into Egalitarian Values I don't think such a simple change requires the sandbox, but rather simply a go ahead. 78.69.180.157 ( talk) 19:03, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
The very first paragraph in the article:
Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is hostility to, prejudice, or discrimination against Jews.[1][2][3] A person who holds such positions is called an antisemite. Antisemitism is generally considered to be a form of racism.[4][5] It has also been characterized as a political ideology which serves as an organizing principle and unites disparate groups which are opposed to liberalism.[6]
78.69.180.157 ( talk) 19:03, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
Thanks; I think there are a number of issues with that sentence and have removed it. Jontel ( talk) 15:21, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
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Meaninf of semitic: /info/en/?search=Semitic_people
A member of any of the peoples who speak or spoke a Semitic language, including in particular the Jews and Arabs.
My argument is simple, how can the word antisemitism be used as anti Jewish, when the definition of the word Semite/Semitic describes a group of people speaking a language. so if the you add the "Anti" t Semitic it must mean a group of people who do not speak a particular language. This page is inaccurate and 141.0.147.90 ( talk) 10:10, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
Antisemitism [...] is hostility to, prejudice, or discrimination against Jews. That seems plausible if 'semite' mean 'jew', but it doesn't does it? 31.48.245.78 ( talk) 21:29, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
@ RolandR, Fidelioas, and Île flottante: Content disputes are not vandalism. Unfounded accusations of vandalism constitute personal attacks. Please work this out here on the talk page, not edit summaries. --jpgordon 𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇 20:02, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
This sentence seems clumsy to me and needs punctuation and rephrasing:
"In Eastern Europe the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the instability of the new states has brought the rise of nationalist movements and the accusation against Jews for the economic crisis, taking over the local economy and bribing the government alongside with traditional and religious motives for antisemitism such as blood libels".
My suggestion is this:
"In Eastern Europe the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the instability of the new states has brought the rise of nationalist movements and accusations against Jews of responsibility for the economic crisis, of taking over the local economy and of bribing the government, along with traditional and religious motives for antisemitism (such as blood libels)".
I don't want to make the edit myself in case I have changed the sense in the wrong way. truthordare ( talk) 17:01, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
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X - Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is hostility to, prejudice, or discrimination against Jews and Arabs.
Y- Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is hostility to, prejudice, or discrimination against any of the peoples who speak or spoke a Semitic language, including in particular the Jews and Arabs.
The definition above is incorrect - Semites are members of any of the peoples who speak or spoke a Semitic language, including in particular the Jews and Arabs. - The current text states that it's just Jewish people, this is incorrect and could be construed as targeting.
Change X for Y Warpeye ( talk) 16:12, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
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template. This has been discussed here multiple times. See the page archives, links are above. ‑‑
ElHef (
Meep?)
17:25, 10 December 2019 (UTC)![]() | This
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Change “ Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is hostility to, prejudice, or discrimination against Jews.[1][2][3] “ to “ Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is hostility to, prejudice, or discrimination against Jewish, Arabic, Amharic, Tigrignia, Tigre peoples.” Sam Seeking Insight ( talk) 01:13, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
shouldn't the definition include that antisemittism is considered hatred towards Jews based on the fact that they are Jews? Hating your neighbour (who happens to be Jewish) for stealing your car, is not antisemittic. However, hating him for his religious believes is. Wikipedia definition as of today: "Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is hostility to, prejudice, or discrimination against Jews" My suggestion: "Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is hostility to, prejudice, or discrimination against Jews, based on the fact that they are Jews"
81.167.68.89 ( talk) 09:04, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
Hello,
Under the 21st-Century European antisemitism header is the following claim:
"This rise in antisemitic attacks is associated with both the Muslim anti-Semitism and the rise of far-right political parties as a result of the economic crisis of 2008.[219] This rise in the support for far right ideas in western and eastern Europe has resulted in the increase of antisemitic acts, mostly attacks on Jewish memorials, synagogues and cemeteries but also a number of physical attacks against Jews.[220]"
Neither of the sources cited support that claim. In the first case, citation [219] (shown here: [1] ), there is a dead link; I've tried searching for the article online but I haven't come up with anything, i.e. I can't find the original nor can I find any copies of the article in question, or indeed anything citing the original article. In the second case, citation [220] (shown here: [2] ), the cited ADL report does not substantiate the claim made. The ADL report is a survey of attitudes towards Jews among various major European nations. The questions in the report deal mostly with belief in Jewish stereotypes and perceptions of Jews. It does not include anything about the far right, still less anything about actual attacks on Jews.
This being the case, the claim made is a bare claim. As it stands, the claim looks like speculation to me (albeit plausible speculation, although that's not the standard of proof for Wikipedia as far as I know). The claim needs to be either properly substantiated or, in the event that no proof can be supplied, removed.
95.146.110.224 ( talk) 22:03, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
References
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I would like to add an external link from an American magazine. The article first appeared in 1915 and seeks to explain the anti-semitism that existed in W.W. I Germany: http://www.oldmagazinearticles.com/article-summary/jews_in_ww1_germany#.XpSqbIhKiLk 172.116.188.73 ( talk) 18:11, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
In the description it is written that it was first introduced in the mid 1800s by a jewish man from Germany. And no arab stepped his foot in Germany in the 1800s. This term was ok for up until now. This term have lost it's logical value, it is illogical. As there are other semites, arabs in palestine and in whole remaining world, who are very hostile against jews. Those arabs are hostile not because jews are semites, otherwise it would be very ridiculous. They are hostile due to a political reasons. I would to change the term to antijewism, or antijudaism if used in a religious context, as judaism is practiced mainly by jews and if outsider wants to accept it, he/she should go through very long and hard learning process of learning religion and culture of jews. And if he accomplishes everything well he is still looked upon as the jew of the 2nd, 3rd and etc. rank. My personal suggestion is to not to stick to dictionary definitions. It is ok for dictionaries to have such logical flaws as it gives an interpretation of the term. And even the interpretation is correct, the term cannot be used to point at to arabs as thay are themselves are semites. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.139.137.29 ( talk) 20:46, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
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A semite is specifically a person that speaks a semitic language. Therefore, it is prejudicial to only include Jewish people as Semites. Arabs should also be included in the description. Politics should not play any role in this; please make these changes accordingly. Thank you. Kareem Ebn El Galaa Arab 15:41, 5 June 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kareemarab ( talk • contribs) 15:41, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
John of Reading, in an edit summary a little while ago, commented "I'm assuming this quote is a translation". I checked the text, and noticed that this related to footnote 292 in the article, which refers to "Laurens 2002". However, there is no further reference to Laurens or this work in the article. In an attempt to locate the missing reference, I discovered that this footnote was added in an edit by Pluto2012 in May 2016, which added references to "Laurens 2002" and "Sachar 1961" without specifying the titles or adding them to the bibliography. This omission has apparently not previously been noticed. Although I could possibly research further and establish which books are intended, this may be mistaken - especially as page numbers are referenced. Pluto has not edited since May 2018, but it Was her 1961"?would be a great help if they could add the missing information. Failing that, is anyone in a position to definitively identify the works cited in this footnote? RolandR ( talk) 20:17, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
Can I request that the following: ‘Antisemitism is generally considered to be a form of racism.’ Be updated to ‘Antisemitism is racism.’
(No from of racism should ever be tolerated. Cloaking it, by referring to with another name, does not change that.) Sabrashicksa ( talk) 08:34, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
What the subject says. "Anti-Semitism" is more commonly used than "antisemitism", and "anti-Semitism" is the main definition on Wiktionary. Thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by SwiftestCat ( talk • contribs) 20:15, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
-- Hodgdon's secret garden ( talk) 08:50, 10 August 2020 (UTC). . . it’s mainly in the United States that one still finds the hyphen. Most of Europe uses 'antisemitism.' It’s not hyphenated in Hebrew, either. So, in a sense, J. is joining the majority. Even the ADL, the venerable anti-hate organization, released a statement announcing that it was abandoning the hyphen. After 'reviewing the history and consulting with other leading experts,' the statement said, 'we have determined that this is the best way to refer to hatred toward Jews.' [14] Dropping the hyphen [15] in antisemitism is also a political statement with a deeper cultural significance, similar to capitalizing the word Black, which we adopted last month to acknowledge the reality of a shared Black culture and heritage. As the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance wrote in 2015 when it urged adoption of the one-word term, 'At a time of increased violence and rhetoric aimed towards Jews, it is urgent that there is clarity and no room for confusion or obfuscation when dealing with antisemitism.' [16] We agree. Changing the word won’t get rid of the phenomenon. But it will make crystal clear what we are talking about.
@ RolandR: I've reverted your edit, which reintroduced a grammatical error. – Roscelese ( talk ⋅ contribs) 19:17, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
Being for many Jewish leaders the main historic source of the Christian antisemitism, Matthew 27:25 shall be mentioned in this article and not in uniquely in the history of antisemitism and similar ones. To cite only this verse or the related 1 Thessalonians 2 means not to give a WP:NPOV.
Differently from Jewish-like and Jewish-oriented, is not so simple to find secondary sources for a comment on non-antisemite verse of the New Testament.
All those elements converge in saying Jesus didn't deny to be Jewish nor he denied the Jewish history-traditions and the possibility of salvation for the Israelites. He instituted a new non-Levitic priesthood, but the same St Paul who talked of it, also spoke of the thomb of king David, like St Peter did. Sources are necessary to cite them in a WP:NPOV article. Philosopher81sp ( talk) 10:34, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
If the topic is Christian antisemitism, don't you think you should instead go to the article Antisemitism in Christianity to make your suggestions? Dimadick ( talk) 17:54, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
I find your proposed edit both difficult to understand and very distant from a neutral point of view. Your invocation of Christian scripture in such a way that implies they are some absolute, unquestionable truth like a Law of physics is troubling. This is definitively not the article to cover such a niche doctrinal question of Christianity. As Dimadick suggested, I too think that this train of thought is better suited to an article on Christianity such as Antisemitism in Christianity. Île flottante ( talk) 23:02, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
Bernspeed ( talk) 14:59, 23 January 2021 (UTC) I was saying that Judaism is not a race, because race and religion are different characteristics. However, somebody reverted the edit because according the revert comment/description, antisemites think that Judaism is a race even though the consensus agrees with what I am saying. But, I am not sure if we should say that it is generally considered a form of racism and saying can be is a more fair form. And, it said to write it in the talk before doing anything, so that is what I am doing.
This term is being abuse globally ! The jews are maximum 2% of the sémite people. The use of the term to describe hate and violence for jews only, make a big impact in the general opinion about jews (many thinks the jews are arrogant or stupid to use it). This term even used against Iranians, which many are Sémites like the rest of the middle east. I request to change the opening text to put spot light on that issue. Sea.eyal ( talk) 09:09, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
From the outset the term "anti-Semitism" bore special racial connotations and meant specifically prejudice against Jews. The term is confusing, for in modern usage 'Semitic' designates a language group, not a race. In this sense, the term is a misnomer, since there are many speakers of Semitic languages (e.g. Arabs, Ethiopians, and Arameans) who are not the objects of antisemitic prejudices, while there are many Jews who do not speak Hebrew, a Semitic language. Though 'antisemitism' could be construed as prejudice against people who speak other Semitic languages, this is not how the term is commonly used.However, it isn't correct to say that this is misusing it - the term has a slightly unintuitive etymology, which could potentially confuse someone who had never heard it before, but its meaning in English is clear, and it's hardly the only word whose etymology gives it a meaning that doesn't line up with what you might expect ("Inflammable means flammable? What a country!") -- Aquillion ( talk) 09:12, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
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Do change article title (antisemitism). This article describes "antijewism". The current title référés to the Semites people which the jews are less then 2%.
This is misleading and generates hate. 66.249.156.26 ( talk) 13:50, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
"In the early 1940s the aviator Charles Lindbergh and many prominent Americans led The America First Committee in opposing any involvement in the war against Fascism. During his July 1936 visit to Nazi Germany, a few weeks before the 1936 Summer Olympics, Lindbergh wrote letters saying that there was "more intelligent leadership in Germany than is generally recognized". The German American Bund held parades in New York City during the late 1930s, where members wore Nazi uniforms and raised flags featuring swastikas alongside American flags."
Opposition to the entrance of the United States to the war in Europe is not proof of antisemitism. This is really a slander unless someone can provide specific evidence of Charles Lindbergh's antisemitism. If it exists (preferably in his own words), then quote and cite it here. Otherwise it should be removed from this article. To follow in the next sentence with material on Bund is guilt by association. Seki1949 ( talk) 20:08, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
I added a section on "Reformation", with links to relevant articles. This is meant to be a starting point for editors. Please refactor and expand. There are existing articles that cover this ground, that should at least be referenced. To this day, German neo-nazi websites quote Martin Luther admiringly, and to overlook his contribution to anti-semitism and his suggestion of what became the nazi "final solution" is a major oversight. The Lutheran church has formally rejected some of his more egregious demands, such as the one that Jews should be put in concentration camps. Jaredscribe ( talk) 22:22, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
I just removed the section "Indology". The main reason is that it doesn't seem relevant. If it were relevant for this article, it should be mentioned in a history of antisemitism, not just in a book on the history of indology. Additionally, the section has more problems: It gives no details on when German indologists promoted antisemitism (before or after the Holocaust ?). It leaves the reader with a lot of questions: Why should indologists manipulate their research "with the objective of fueling European antisemitism" ? How can equating Jews with Brahmins fuel antisemitism ? How can this result in anti-Brahmanism ? -- Rsk6400 ( talk) 19:29, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
I don't like the section at all. (1) It is unsatisfactory that the only citation is a range of 138 pages in a book which mentions the word "anti-semitism" only in footnotes with one exception that refers to a previous century. (2) Where does "arbitrarily" come from; I don't find it in the source and it is also implausible as fringe theories nearly always have an internal non-arbitrary "logic". (3) Where does "with the objective of fueling European antisemitism" come from? The closest I can find is on page 307 which is more nuanced: "If it is true that German researches into ancient Indian texts played a formative role in the growth of anti-Semitism, it is equally true that those researches, from their very inception, were already shaped by German anti-Semitism." Note that this says it played a role, not that it was an objective. (We can reasonably assume such an objective existed, but our assumptions are not a replacement for a citation. Where does the source state it?) (4) The source does not mention "Indo-Aryan migration" under that name; if it is there under another name page numbers need to be provided. (5) "This identification required equating Brahmins with Jews"—where is that in the source? The closest I can find is comparison, not equation (p335). I looked at every occurrence of "Jew" in the book. (6) On page 21 the author notes that the German Indologists included a significant minority of Jews until the Nazi purge of Jewish scholars. In summary, this section is far below the required standard and it is not sourced. Zero talk 03:18, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
I just restored the statement about Iranian antisemitism which seems to have been inserted by an editor with a COI connection to ADL. After looking at the relevant discussion at Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard#Anti_Defamation_League_citation_advocacy, I want to thank Graywalls for drawing attention to a serious problem. But in itself, the statement is relevant, and I wouldn't like to see it removed with the sole objective of discouraging further COI edits. -- Rsk6400 ( talk) 06:55, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
The last word of the very first sentence should be replaced ("Jews" <- "Semites") E.g the first sentence should be: "Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is hostility to, prejudice, or discrimination against Semites" Sea.eyal ( talk) 21:02, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
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Antisemitism is a movement against semit people, and here it is written in the context of anti judaism and that is not correct.
Please explain how you came to this conclussion with facts.
Thank you Gzkras ( talk) 14:59, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
After reading through all of this material it seems that hardly any reason is given as to why antisemitism occurs. I would assume not everybody that practices antisemitism is irrational so it would be nice to know their reasons behind doing it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.239.67.183 ( talk) 00:42, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
@ Enthusiast01: Although now sourced, in my opinion your insertion of antisemitism against non-Jews still has a serious problem: The lede should summarize the article, not introduce new ideas. As far as I can see, the problem of antisemitism against sympathetic non-Jews is not discussed in the article in any depth that would merit mentioning it in the lede. Rsk6400 ( talk) 09:41, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
Anybody updating this page who can help keep current antisemitic attacks updated. Just an example, I was reading through the section on France and I think the trial of Sarah Halimi is a notable example. I would edit it myself, but I am fairly new to Wikipedia and I get totally lost at what is considered "historical 21st century" and what is considered "current situation". Any clarification or is better to merge the two sections and just separate 21st century antisemitism by region? Like I said, I am new user so I don't want to make any radical changes. Thanks! -- RCrew92 ( talk) 12:15, 23 May 2021 (UTC)Rcrew92 23 May 2021
If you have an opinion, please share. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 15:38, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
Talk:Ilhan_Omar#RFC has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Benevolent human ( talk) 00:34, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
It is not "also known as anti-semitism." The International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance rejects the hyphenation, as it is a misguided attempt to discredit the hatred of Jews. I demand that that is removed or edited to state "often called by the misnomer anti-semitism" Xamgerg ( talk) 23:58, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
My goodness; you "demand" it, do you? What if I refuse?
And do you really mean "misguided attempt to discredit the hatred of Jews"? Do you think it's misguided to discredit any kind of hatred, or just of Jews? What does a hyphen have to do with Jew-hatred?
MrDemeanour ( talk) 20:07, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
An editor added Critical race theory to the "See also" section and another removed it saying it is "Unsourced, unrelated, not in article". I restored, saying it doesn't need sourcing, it is related, and doesn't need to be in the article. It has been removed again, the editor saying "Unrelated. Take it to talk."
Antisemitism is essentially racism. Critical race theory is a theory of racism. They are self-evidently related, whatever one might think of either subject. Captainllama ( talk) 22:20, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
I'm looking to add a section on the origins of anti-semitism in West Francia, using the research of Warren Pezé's 'Amalaire Et La communautée Juive De Lyon À propos de l’antijudaïsme Lyonnais à l’époque Carolingienne’ that places ninth century Lyon as a hot spot for brewing anti-semitic ideologies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tubbyavocados ( talk • contribs) 14:02, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
The opener…
directed against all Semitic people
… should IMO be changed into…
directed against all peoples once considered Semitic
… to account for that "Semitic people", just like the linked article makes clear ("was a term", "now largely obsolete outside […] linguistics"), is an outdated term no longer in use for serious texts. — 84.163.110.146 ( talk) 16:18, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 October 2018 and 5 December 2018. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
MichaelSeigel.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 14:29, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
The Roman Jewish wars were pivotal moments in Jewish history, especially Hadrian's renaming of Judea and the banishment of the Jews from Jerusalem. There is also a lot of scholarly discussion in regards to whether or not Hadrian perpetrated genocide. TablemannDanny231 ( talk) 18:44, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
Okay, upon further investigation I see "rebellions" has a hyper-link, but surely a sentence or two should be given to describe the events? Especially considering this demographic shift is what really started the Jewish diaspora in the huge form it exists in today — Preceding unsigned comment added by TablemannDanny231 ( talk • contribs) 18:46, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
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change Tunisia, as the only Middle Eastern country under direct Nazi control during World War II, was also the site of racist antisemitic measures such as the yellow star, prison camps, deportations, and other persecution. In 1948, approximately 105,000 Jews lived in Tunisia" to "Tunisia, under direct Nazi control during World War II, was also the site of racist antisemitic measures such as the yellow star, prison camps, deportations, and other persecution. In 1948, approximately 105,000 Jews lived in Tunisia"
"as the only Middle Eastern country" removed TheLime1 ( talk) 12:01, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
Not sure where this fits in the article but I think this should be added somewhere:
The study of antisemitism has become politically controversial because of differing interpretations of the Holocaust and the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. [1] There are two competing views of antisemitism, eternalism and contextualism. [2] The eternalist view sees antisemitism as separate from other forms of racism and prejudice and an exceptionalist, transhistorical force teleologically culminating in the Holocaust. [2] [3] Hannah Arendt criticized this approach, writing that it provoked "the uncomfortable question: ‘Why the Jews of all people?’ . . . with the question begging reply: Eternal hostility." [4] Zionist thinkers and antisemites draw different conclusions from what they perceive as the eternal hatred of Jews; according to antisemites, it proves the inferiority of Jews, while for Zionists it means that Jews need their own state as a refuge. [5] [6] Most Zionists do not believe that antisemitism can be combatted with education or other means. [5]
The contextual approach treats antisemitism as a type of racism and focuses on the historical context in which hatred of Jews emerges. [7] Some contextualists restrict the use of "antisemitism" to refer exclusively to the era of modern racism, treating anti-Judaism as a separate phenomenon. [8] Historian David Engel has challenged the project to define antisemitism, arguing that it essentializes Jewish history as one of persecution and discrimination. [9] Engel argues that the term "antisemitism" is not useful in historical analysis because it implies that there are links between anti-Jewish prejudices expressed in different contexts, without evidence of such a connection. [4]
References
(
t ·
c)
buidhe
23:18, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
Re this edit I think that you need a consensus to remove longstanding information from the article. Regarding the sources, there is no prohibition on using reliable newspapers. If you think that better sources are needed you should've tagged it with {{Template:Better source needed}} so that other users can look for them. Alaexis ¿question? 07:56, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
Here is what I'm proposing as a replacement for the current definition section, which is long, rambling and doesn't adequately inform the reader of different definitions.
Antisemitism is difficult to define, [1] although the basic meaning is hatred of Jews. [2] There are multiple conceptions of antisemitism, [3] [4] which has been defined as the ideology and political movement started by Marr, [4] the rejection of Jews as a distinct collective, [5] an individual prejudice against Jews—ranging from mild to extreme [6]—and a deep-seated aspect of Western civilization or modernity. [7] [8] Anti-Zionism and sometimes criticism of Israeli government policies have also been described as antisemitic, which some call new antisemitism. [5] Other actions such as violence against Jews or Jewish sites, or Holocaust denial are uncontroversially considered antisemitic. [9] The Working Definition of Antisemitism has been adopted by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance and some countries, although it is one of the most controversial definitions of antisemitism. The definition's examples focus on Israel and have been used to censor criticism of Israel. [10] Other definitions include the Jerusalem Declaration on Antisemitism and the Nexus Document. [8] [3]
Buidhe, am I correct in understanding that your proposal is to replace the entire existing 'Definition' section of the article (almost 800 words) with your 150-word text? AndyTheGrump ( talk) 21:28, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
Rsk6400 I still don't think this is a good article organization, for a number of reasons. First of all, the article is already above the recommended size for readability, removing the by country section helps keep it under the limit. Second, I do not think it's possible to give a good overview of antisemitism in each country within the size restrictions of WP:Article size. Third, I think the racism article is a better model for organization, which does not have a by country section but instead a separate article racism by country. ( t · c) buidhe 08:54, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
Why isn't there anything in the External links section at the moment? Mcljlm ( talk) 00:08, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
I guess it's too "in the news" for this article, but wow. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 11:12, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
"They have undoubtedly had a difficult Jewish problem, but why is it necessary to handle it so unreasonably?", acknowledgement on Lindbergh's part that he agreed with the Nazis that Germany had a "Jewish problem." - the "acknowledgement on Lindbergh's part that he agreed with the Nazis that Germany had a "Jewish problem" bit is an opinion, that of the author of the cited source. So it needs to be reworded to reflect that. 92.1.144.176 ( talk) 02:33, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
@ Dr.Pinsky, Vitamortisachla, and Altanner1991: I restored the version as of 2 June. I think that the text that Altanner1991 copied from anti-Middle Eastern sentiment gives undue weight to single studies, single authors, and one single country (i.e. the U.S.). In fact, the most horrific instance of antisemitism, i.e. the Holocaust, had nothing to do with the U.S., so IMHO this article should not cover US antisemitism in too much detail. Rsk6400 ( talk) 11:22, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
I would like to point out that half the neo-Nazis today live in the United States, and the other half live in Russia. Major
WP:NPOV issues with the removal of US-related content.
Altanner1991 (
talk)
10:50, 17 July 2022 (UTC)
I am changing my stance as the content was indeed not worthy enough. Thank you.
Altanner1991 (
talk)
23:20, 17 July 2022 (UTC)
I wonder in view of Yehuda Bauer's quote user:Rsk6400 if "the term antisemitism acquired pejorative connotations" should be in this instance "the terms anti-Semite and anti-Semitic acquired pejorative connotations". I suggest that as someone who emails authors and publishers whenever I see the hyphen used and removes the hyphen if I see it in WP articles. Mcljlm ( talk) 13:29, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
Nobody says, 'I am anti-Semitic.' You cannot, after Hitler. The word has gone out of fashion.I can't access the cited source right now, but given Bauer's other work, which unambiguously takes the perspective that antisemitism still exists today, I would be genuinely shocked if the source didn't confirm this reading. It's also worth noting that we currently have well-cited claims in the lead establishing that the German term Antisemitismus was originally coined as a more-politically-correct euphemism for Judenhass, a precedent for the non-pejorative origin of the term, irrespective of the reprehensibility of the content it represents. signed, Rosguill talk 16:30, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
Hello the claim has only one source that being a guardian article
In Eastern Europe the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the instability of the new states has brought the rise of nationalist movements and the accusation against Jews for the economic crisis, taking over the local economy and bribing the government, along with traditional and religious motives for antisemitism such as blood libels. Writing on the rhetoric surrounding the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, Jason Stanley relates these perceptions to broader historical narratives: "the dominant version of antisemitism alive in parts of eastern Europe today is that Jews employ the Holocaust to seize the victimhood narrative from the 'real' victims of the Nazis, who are Russian Christians (or other non-Jewish eastern Europeans)".[228] He calls out the "myths of contemporary eastern European antisemitism – that a global cabal of Jews were (and are) the real agents of violence against Russian Christians and the real victims of the Nazis were not the Jews, but rather this group."[228
"the dominant version of antisemitism alive in parts of eastern Europe today is that Jews employ the Holocaust to seize the victimhood narrative from the 'real' victims of the Nazis, who are Russian Christians (or other non-Jewish eastern Europeans)".[228] He calls out the "myths of contemporary eastern European antisemitism – that a global cabal of Jews were (and are) the real agents of violence against Russian Christians and the real victims of the Nazis were not the Jews, but rather this group."
I have never heard the view in russian antisemitism that russian christians were the real victims of the holocaust
In russia neo-nazis deny the holocaust whilst antisemitic politicians like zhirnovsky have given up on it. I want people to provide extra sources or remove the part
Also for some people putin calling zelensky a ”nazi” isn’t antisemitism it’s a lie to envoke ww2 he would do it no mater what etnicity or political ideology the leader of ukraine has. Zelensky is objectively a centrist liberal. 176.72.99.98 ( talk) 04:04, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
Did Wikipedia editors discuss why not call the article just "anti-Semitism" as Britannica? Are there present other academic sources calling that "Antisemism"? PoetVeches ( talk) 18:41, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
@ Dottasriel2000, which source are you relying on for your inclusion of Abyssinians for your recent edit? I do not see it in Bein, the closest reference, nor do I see them mentioned elsewhere on the page. Freelance-frank ( talk) 17:52, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
Please add the following to the lede:
Objections to the usage of the term, such as the obsolete nature of the term "Semitic" as a racial term and the exclusion of discrimination against non-Jewish Semitic peoples, have been raised since at least the 1930s. [1] [2]
2601:547:B05:5F8:FD87:C7FB:46F1:6688 ( talk) 01:38, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
References
It has long been realised that there are objections to the term anti-Semitism and therefore an endeavour has been made to find a word which better interprets the meaning intended. Already in 1936 Bolkestein, for example, wrote an article on Het "antisemietisme" in de oudheid (Anti-Semitism in the ancient world) in which the word was placed between quotation marks and a preference was expressed for the term hatred of the Jews… Nowadays the term anti-Judaism is often preferred. It certainly expresses better than anti-Semitism the fact that it concerns the attitude to the Jews and avoids any suggestion of racial distinction, which was not or hardly, a factor of any significance in ancient times. For this reason Leipoldt preferred to speak of anti-Judaism when writing his Antisemitsmus in der alten Welt (1933). Bonsirven also preferred this word to Anti-Semitism, "mot moderne qui implique une théorie des races".
The term 'anti-Semitism' was unsuitable from the beginning for the real essence of Jew-hatred, which remained anchored, more or less, in the Christian tradition even when it moved via the natural sciences, into racism. It is doubtful whether the term which was first publicized in an institutional context (the Anti-Semitic League) would have appeared at all if the 'Anti-Chancellor League,' which fought Bismarck's policy, had not been in existence since 1875. The founders of the new Organization adopted the elements of 'anti' and 'league,' and searched for the proper term: Marr exchanged the term 'Jew' for 'Semite' which he already favored. It is possible that the shortened form 'Sem' is used with such frequency and ease by Marr (and in his writings) due to its literary advantage and because it reminded Marr of Sem Biedermann, his Jewish employer from the Vienna period.
The root word Semite gives the false impression that antisemitism is directed against all Semitic people, e.g., including Arabs, Assyrians, and Arameans.
It would be interesting to see the article explore the aspect where people, due to general xenophobic attitude are also classed as Jews and subjected to antisemitic abuse. For example, in the case of anti-Polonism (since Poland is a successor state to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in which most Jews lived in early modern era). This happened to Marie Curie who came from Warsaw (at the time a city with a very large Jewish population), and was subjected to antisemitic abuse. Is it possible that there is a link between Antisemitism and antipolonism? 51.155.213.25 ( talk) 16:00, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
Shouldn't the Dreyfus affair be under the Persecution header as well as the tropes header? ModernMephisto ( talk) 10:00, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
I edited the wikilink "came to power" in the Section 3.11 20th century sentence starting "In Germany, shortly after Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party came to power" so that the link led directly to /info/en/?search=Adolf_Hitler%27s_rise_to_power#Seizure_of_control_(1931%E2%80%931933) instead of via the Redirect from Machtergreifung (indicated by "Adolf Hitler's rise to power (Redirected from Machtergreifung)" at the top of the page. I'd be grateful if Rsk6400 or someone else could explain why he reverted my edit, why the indirect link is better than the direct link. Mcljlm ( talk) 11:39, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
To editor Mureungdowon: The "See Also" section of articles is intended to provide links to other articles on topics with direct connection to the this one. It is not intended for listing articles on topics that editors think are somehow analogous, nor to provide editorial commentary on them. Note that except for the more broad topic of xenophobia, all the links so far are about aspects of antisemitism. If we want to add all the examples in the world of racial or religious persecution, the list would be very much longer. It isn't possible that your addition will be accepted and you should stop trying. Zero talk 13:32, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
Here is the new draft that I WP:Boldly proposed. See my edit summaries for arguments in support of each proposed change, and you may respond to those in reply.
is an ideology that promotes hostility, prejudice, discrimination, incitement, or violence directed against Jews,[2][3][4] as a matter of racist hate.[5][6] A proponent is said to be an antisemite.
The compound term Antisemitismus was brought into common usage in the late 19th century by the Anti-semitic league, and was coined in Germany in 1879[7] as a scientific-sounding term for the traditional and religious Judenhass ('Jew-hatred'),[8][9][10][11][12] and this has been its common use since then.[8][13][14]
It is also applied to previous and later anti-Jewish incidents. Notable instances of persecution include the Rhineland massacres preceding the First Crusade in 1096, the Edict of Expulsion from England in 1290, the 1348–1351 persecution of Jews during the Black Death, the massacres of Spanish Jews in 1391, the persecutions of the Spanish Inquisition, the expulsion from Spain in 1492, the Cossack massacres in Ukraine from 1648 to 1657, various anti-Jewish pogroms in the Russian Empire between 1821 and 1906, the 1894–1906 Dreyfus affair in France, the Holocaust in German-occupied Europe during World War II and Soviet anti-Jewish policies. Though historically most manifestations of antisemitism have taken place in Christian Europe, since the early 20th century antisemitism has increased in the Middle East.
Antisemitism has historically been manifested in many ways, ranging from expressions of hatred of or discrimination against individual Jews to organized pogroms by mobs, police forces, or genocide.
The root word Semite gives the false impression that antisemitism is directed against all Semitic people, e.g., including Arabs, Assyrians, and Arameans, but in origin and common use, antisemitism refers to hate directed at Jews in particular
Regards, Jaredscribe ( talk) 03:21, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
It's more precise and talks about jews specifically.
It's similar to using antislavism when talking about a particular slav ethnicity. or antigermanism when talking about a specific germanic ethnicity.
antisemitism groups all semites together and jews use the word all the time, when, in fact, the conversation is about jews only not about all semites. it's not logical Dndm49 ( talk) 17:06, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
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The National Jewish Outreach Program (NJOP) does acknowledge the Jewish origin of the word, stating that the term “Antisemitism” came about (in its Germanic form) in 1860, when Moritz Steinschneider, an Austrian Jewish scholar, introduced the term "antisemitische vorurteile" (anti-Semitic prejudices). He used the expression in a piece he wrote countering the ideas of French philosopher Ernest Renan, who claimed that the Semitic race was inferior to the Aryan race. [1] Ealexbtti ( talk) 01:19, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
It is hardly known in the Anglosphere that Marr indeed popularized the term “anti-Semitism” by his book, but it was coined by a Jew named Moritz Steinschneider, from whom Marr took it: “He is considered the founder of scholarly Hebrew bibliography and, in the estimation of Judaist Günter Stemberger, was ‘the most universal Jewish scholar of his time.’ He coined the term anti-Semitism in 1860 in his criticism of Ernest Renan.” (German Wikipedia) 2A02:8109:1040:29C0:38D6:80CC:BC71:B212 ( talk) 01:08, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitismus#cite_note-Bein-3 Google also "steinschneider" with "antisemitism" together and you will find some sources, also the Dutch wiki says it (with source https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitisme#cite_note-2), some examples https://www.abc.net.au/religion/john-safran-semites-and-antisemitism/13967962 and https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:lJX96COzRA0J:https://www.jpost.com/tags/antisemitism&cd=8&hl=de&ct=clnk&gl=de (scroll down) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8109:1040:29C0:38D6:80CC:BC71:B212 ( talk) 04:06, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
The definition states that Middle East is anti Semitic. This Couldn’t be further from the truth. As an Arab, I’ve never heard any antisemitism in my whole life living in the Middle East. However, there is an anti-Israel sentiment here which should not be confused with religion. That’s like judging all Muslims off the actions of the Saudi government. This is an inaccurate and unfair depiction of the Arab world. 2001:1670:18:33D0:3902:B441:E9A6:3793 ( talk) 02:20, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
It is simply not true that the term anti-semitism was first coined or used by Moritz Steinschneider in 1860 in a response to the views of Ernest Renan. The term 'anti-semitic', which is the adjective of the noun anti-semitism, was used as early as 1851 in Thomas Carlyle, The life of John Sterling, 1st edition, 1851 (1 vol.), London: Chapman and Hall. Moreover, Renan cannot be associated with a form of anti-semitism which can be depicted as a hostile reaction against Jewish people. Ernest Renan was neither Houston Stewart Chamberlain nor Arthur de Gobineau. 213.47.191.250 ( talk) 11:58, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
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Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism)[a] is hostility to, prejudice towards, or discrimination against Arabs, Jews or other people who speak a Semitic language. 2601:803:17F:9150:6166:915E:5311:3C23 ( talk) 20:07, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
Timeline of antisemitism has an RfC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. patsw ( talk) 16:22, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
Can someone change the phrase "The term is confusing, for in modern usage 'Semitic' designates a language group, not a race..." to "The term has been characterized as confusing, for in modern usage 'Semitic' designates a language group, not a race..."
I think it sounds more encyclopedic to describe a term as being viewed as confusing, rather than just saying in Wikipedia's own voice that a term is confusing. JohnR1Roberts ( talk) 20:45, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
@ Misha Wolf This is a response to your reasoning for reverting my inclusion of the Jerusalem Declaration.
You mentioned 3 points, I shall address them.
References
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 30 | ← | Archive 33 | Archive 34 | Archive 35 | Archive 36 |
The consensus is against the lead using the Working Definition of Antisemitism, including all its examples, as the definitive definition of antisemitism.
Should the lead use the Working Definition of Antisemitism, including all its examples, as the definitive definition of antisemitism?
Our current lede definition is very different, and doesn't explicitly include " new antisemitism" (i.e. certain criticism of Israel) as a core component. This question has been discussed before, at #/Archive 32#A way forward? Proposal on using EUMC definition, also see #/Archive 31#EUMC/FRA "Working definition", but this was prior to the wider adoption of the Working Definition by various world governmental organizations. Onceinawhile ( talk) 20:57, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
"religion or ethnicity". Bus stop ( talk) 01:26, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
Manifestations might include the targeting of the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic.or for example
Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination. Normal criticism of Israel does not run foul of the definition, only criticism that treats Israel in an exceptional manner in relation to other states. Icewhiz ( talk) 19:36, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
opposes codifying the language into law, although he still endorses the language for its intended use — as a means for diplomats to identify anti-Semitism.- so he opposes free-speech restrictions (which would seem the crux of the argument before the committee) - but still thinks that the definition is correct. For the most part, controversies here have revolved around groups widely perceived and accused as antisemitic who challenge the definition and on the right to engage in antisemitic discourse as part of freedom of speech. Icewhiz ( talk) 21:26, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
Your question is not neutral because it implie that the New definition implies ANY criticism of Israel is antisemitic, when that is not the case. Sir Joseph (talk) 21:02, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
GHcool put in the lede, "It has also been characterized as a political ideology which serves as an organizing principle and unites disparate groups which are opposed to liberalism.[6]" This is a minority point of view - is the source even RS? Skingski ( talk) 17:05, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion regarding whether a letter from a number of Orthodox Rabbis should be included in the “Allegations of antisemitism and responses” section of the Jeremy Corbyn page. Arguments for and against are in the “Letter from Orthodox Rabbis is Valid” section of the talk page. Please view and vote if this interests you. See /info/en/?search=Talk:Jeremy_Corbyn#RfC_about_a_letter_from_Orthodox_Rabbis Burrobert ( talk) 11:39, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
I want to help edit this article, but I am reluctant to do so, since editing restrictions might be enforced here. Are editors of this article required to abide by the same restrictions that are being enforced on other articles about antisemitism, such as Talk:Antisemitism in the Arab world? Jarble ( talk) 02:52, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
I would argue that antisemitism typically means hatred of Jews as an ethnic group, but some would argue it includes faith too. 2605:6001:E7C4:1E00:97C:B01C:4E8A:1D96 ( talk) 23:22, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
The opening definition of anti-Semitism as a prejudice against Jews is inadequate and misleading. The suggested replacement definitions on this page are somewhat better but still inadequate.
The core of anti-Semitism is a belief in a great and somewhat conspiratorial power of "the Jews" or a specific group of Jews such as "the Jewish bankers" or "Zionism". Most anti-Semites argue that they aren't against Jews per se but only whatever they consider to be the dangerous powerful conspiratorial group of Jews, although at the same time they usually argue that there are group characteristics of Jews in general that make them prone to be a part of the power structure and conspiracy.
Anti-Semitism is a combination of sociological pejorative characterization with conspiracy theory. Pure conspiracy theories, bereft of sociological reference groups as natural conspirators, are not as dangerous, nor as likely to get a mass of believers. Nor are pure sociological pejoratives as dangerous.
Anti-Semites typically say that "some of my best friends are Jews" and use this as an argument for denying that they are anti-Semites; Nazis have famously done this, and also talked about how poor Jews are OK, while continuing with their conspiracy theories about "the Jews" and "the rich Jews" and "the Zionists" and the "international Jewish bankers". Misdefinition of anti-Semitism as a general personal or social distaste for Jews makes this argument sound logical. I know someone, a libertarian world federalist leader (unusual combination there), who for years has freely made up accusations about Israel doing terrible things and talks a lot about the Jewish lobby being all-powerful, and can't imagine that he's an anti-Semite, because he has Jewish friends and probably really does not have any social Judophobia.
One could speak of personal anti-Jewish feelings as social Judophobia, or parlor anti-Semitism. It used to be widespread among Anglo elites, even while those elites often provided the best refuge to Jews available in the world and generally avoided the anti-Semitic ideologies that were spreading dangerously elsewhere. Real anti-Semitism, anti-Semitism per se, is something else, and something much more.
There is also a popular line that "the Arabs are Semites too, so we can't be anti-Semites"; that too goes back to the Nazis, if not earlier. Definition of anti-Semitism as primarily or entirely a racial ideology makes this argument sound logical. The racial ideology should be called "racial anti-Semitism", or "race ideology anti-Semitism", not used as the definition of anti-Semitism in general.
But anti-Semitism in general, or anti-Semitic ideology in general, is something else -- something larger, more about conspiracy, less about race. Race is just one of the sociological props that can be plugged into anti-Semitic conspiracy ideologies. Theories of minorities as disruptors and disintegrators of society, and about commercial classes and middlemen as exploiters and "culture vultures", are other theories that can be a part of anti-Semitic conspiracy theory, without any need for a racial component.
What is true is that all these things - anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, the big hidden Jewish power, some collective Jewish purpose that is hidden and against the rest of society or the world, social pejoratives, racial theory, religious intrinsic-enemy theories, sociological intrinsic subversive-minority theories, beliefs in a conspiracy of the Jewish religion to conquer the world going all the way back to Isaiah or earlier, -- tend to go together. But not all components of that amalgam are needed for something to qualify as "anti-Semitism". And many of those components do not by themselves qualify as anti-Semitism, absent some of the others.
The crux of it is that enough of these components are woven into a theory about a dangerous Jewish power, part-hidden or disguised or deceptive, and thus conspiratorial. That is what makes it a thing, a noun, anti-Semitism, an ideology, an "ism". Which is something more than an adjective, an "ic", anti-Semitic -- an attitude or belief that is not kind to Jews. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.255.90.236 ( talk) 21:13, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
Please update citation 40. The page no longer exists as linked. Possible update https://www.state.gov/s/rga/resources/267538.htm Pbmax ( talk) 20:16, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
Bus stop's recent edit is a total non-starter, in my opinion. "Jews metaphysically cause antisemitism by not being good enough" has no place in the "causes" section of a serious encyclopedia article. – Roscelese ( talk ⋅ contribs) 20:58, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
"Jews metaphysically cause antisemitism by not being good enough". I made this edit which followed on this edit by @ Tridy:. Bus stop ( talk) 21:45, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
"Jews metaphysically cause antisemitism by not being good enough"yet you are enclosing that in quotation marks. Why do you feel this material would be inappropriate for this article? Bus stop ( talk) 02:11, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
"Since assimilation is antithetical to God's design for the Jewish people, what can God do to keep His promise that the Jews will never become extinct? A cornerstone of Jewish monotheism is the insistence that everything – everything – comes from God, the one and only source. At the same time, He has given human beings free choice in the moral realm. Humans may not be able to choose what happens to them, but they are always choosing between right and wrong, good and evil. So, what if all the Jews in any given generation choose to assimilate into extinction?"
"That's where anti-Semitism comes in. Anti-Semitism is the Divine equivalent of the parent of a diabetic child locking the cookie jar. A Jew in 15th century Spain or 20th century Germany or 21st century America may want to blend in with the surrounding society, but anti-Semitism is a sealed door, strong and black as iron, which keeps him out – and separate. Anti-Semitism keeps the Jewish people from dissipating into oblivion."
"The ubiquitous effort to trace the source of anti-Semitism to the Jews remaining different and aloof – implying that assimilation cures anti-Semitism – is an inversion of the truth. Assimilation is not the antidote to anti-Semitism; anti-Semitism is the Divine antidote to assimilation."
I don't think we are discussing whether this is correct or incorrect or whether you approve or disapprove of this particular tenet of the Jewish religion. This is simply worth noting in our article for no other reason than that it exists. Many more sources can be found supporting this general idea. They are probably all going to be religious sources. A source is not disqualified because it is "religious". What we should be looking for is whether or not a source addresses a topic of an article. Clearly we are concerned with what causes antisemitism, in this article. So, a religious explanation for the existence of antisemitism is as much on topic as a secular explanation for the existence of antisemitism. Bus stop ( talk) 17:25, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
I'd consider a religious explanation of a social phenomenon to have just as much place here as in any other social phenomenon. It wouldn't be appropriate to talk about the devil's meddling in Causes of sexual orientation or female sinfulness in Causes of sexual violence. – Roscelese ( talk ⋅ contribs) 21:33, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
"Has anyone made the argument that a 'religious explanation' isn't appropriate?"Yes, see the two above arguments, one by Roscelese and one by Icewhiz. I think those are both arguments that religious explanations for antisemitism wouldn't be appropriate in this article. Bus stop ( talk) 00:09, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
"religious explanations are as appropriate as they would be in an article on evolution"There is a difference between evolution and antisemitism. One is of particular concern to Jews (antisemitism) and the other is equally of concern to people of any identity (evolution). This is not the article about evolution. This is the article about antisemitism. Bus stop ( talk) 00:23, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
"a Jewish religious precept, not universally held". Bus stop ( talk) 19:35, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
I don't see many reliable sources discussing this. Jayjg (talk) 21:38, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
here. Doug Weller talk 12:04, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
here. Doug Weller talk 12:04, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
There should be something on this. As Keith Ellison Vice chair of the DNC has made many anti-semeitic comments and Ilham Omar and Rashida are recognized anti-Semites. 173.166.127.233 ( talk) 15:48, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
I would not consider Hareetz a reliable source. They are the anti Israel paper in Israel. The DNC and the Dem Controlled house refused to condemn the anti-Semitism of Ilhan Omar. American Zionist ( talk) 12:42, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 17:07, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard#Islamophobia, Antisemitism, and other religious hate in "racism in X" articles may be of interest to talk page watchers here. The issue is whether to include Islamophobia, Antisemitism, and other religious hate in Racism in country X articles. Icewhiz ( talk) 19:32, 3 August 2019 (UTC)
Historically, antisemitism have existed in just about every liberal government with little to no opposition or concern until after WW2. And even at that point it was due to some rather self serving motives in a lot of instances. To equate the interests of Jewish people with one singular ideology that has for most of its history persecuted and excluded Jews is pretty revisionistic. I understand that liberalism is the modern day status quo, and as such it influences popular assumptions about history. But prior to the holocaust, the hotbeds of antisemitism was places like France, England and even Canada. These were all liberal governments, and antisemitism was far from an opposition to their liberal values. Liberal values include borders, visa requirements, travel restrictions, migrant politics, and numerous other things that are incredibly harmful - and often times deadly - to any diasporic people. Whether Jews, Roma, or refugees who were once settled.
It feels a bit propagandistic, and presents this idea that liberals can't be antisemities. In spite of how some of the biggest antisemities in history were liberals, including Tsar Alexander II and Henry Ford. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.69.180.157 ( talk) 15:40, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
EDIT:
Also I didn't notice the Americans bickering here. For clarification: I'm in Europe, when we say liberalism we refer to the politics often framed by enlightenment era philosophy. This includes what is colloquially referred to as conservatives and democrats in the US. So I'm not taking a side there, this is in fact aimed at both sides and those who represent similar politics in Europe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.69.180.157 ( talk) 15:43, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
I'm sorry, you need evidence of that Europe was antisemitic? Remember those countries I mentioned before? Ever read about their stance on Jewish refugees in the 1930s? Liberalism was useless for people who tried to escape the holocaust. British media published headlines such as Hurrah for the blackshirts! and made every effort to antagonise and abuse Jewish people just in the exact same way they're treating refugees today, and this all happened with liberal migration policy. Here, the washington post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/11/17/what-americans-thought-of-jewish-refugees-on-the-eve-of-world-war-ii/?noredirect=on
Fewer than 5 percent of Americans surveyed at the time believed that the United States should raise its immigration quotas or encourage political refugees fleeing fascist states in Europe
Just first result, this is common knowledge for most people interested in history. There's an obvious whitewashing of liberalism's history of antisemitism here, and it's very much akin to holocaust denial, since the antisemitism of liberal countries directly condemned millions of Jews into death camps.
And in fact I got more, the philosophical architects of liberalism itself were antisemites. In the Natural History of Religion, David Hume writes that Jews are inferiour to Christians. Voltarie believed Jews were the direct descendants from Adam and Eve, and therefore called them adamites, and he described them as infecting Europe, which is the same kind of antisemitic rhetoric that existed throughout Europe after the enlightenment era in several liberal countries, and thus can be described as a liberal value. Same with Emmanuel Kant, who could be argued was the key philosopher for the liberal moral framework next to John Locke, also believed Jewish people were inferiour due to immutable traits passed on by birth.
Sources: Michael Mack Phd, Cambridge University, New York Times And Richard Popkin The Philosophical Bases of Modern Racism
The very roots of liberalism is steeped in antisemitism and may very well have influenced modern day antisemitism. How's that for poorly researched? Update: In my research I also found this /info/en/?search=Talk%3ADavid_Hume#Missing_anti-semitism_section So even wikipedia itself has liberal antisemities going around censoring articles like some sort of antisemitic nerd mafia.
Addendum: Since I will not rest until this matter is resolved, I will add more and more research here as I find it, and today I will discuss the effect the US had on antisemitism in Nazi Germany. According to Hitler's American Model: The United States and the Making of Nazi Race Law by James Q Whitman, Princeton University. the US government, a liberal government, had no qualms what so ever with helping the Nazis develop the archetecture of discrimination and dehumanisation that then permitted them to persecute Jewish people. In Great Britain, Jewish people were placed in London's East End. This was an act of segregation, and the East End was known for its poverty, social strife and police abuses. The east end was a ghetto for Jewish people in the 1900s and upwards, even today the East End is stigmatised as a bad part of town. Now is rounding Jewish people up and putting them in ghettos an act of antisemitism or not? My source? Wikipedia itself says so.
The area was notorious for its deep poverty, overcrowding and associated social problems. This led to the East End's history of intense political activism and association with some of the country's most influential social reformers. Another major theme of East End history has been migration, both inward and outward. The area had a strong pull on the rural poor from other parts of England, and attracted waves of migration from further afield, notably Huguenot refugees, who created a new extramural suburb in Spitalfields in the 17th century,[1] Irish weavers,[2] Ashkenazi Jews,[3] and, in the 20th century, Sylheti Bangladeshis.[4]
Is segregating Jews into ghettos only antisemitism when non liberals do it, or will you start reporting the facts responsibly? Also, my proposal here is that we change it from saying it's the opposite of liberal values, which is outright propaganda. Into something more unbiased and true, to say that it is against egalitarian values. Thereby recognising people and thinkers from all ends of the political spectrum who takes the responsibility to treat people fairly, and act with social justice in mind. 78.69.180.157 ( talk) 19:03, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
You don't have to tell me, I'm Roma. I live in a segregated area right now, among Yugoslavs, Africans and Afghanis. You say this is like some kind of big coincidence, but it seems we're always getting the worser end of the stick. It seems like whenever liberal governments have to choose between racism and economic reform, racism always wins, and then they shrug and claim it's a big coincidence. But coincidences are not patterns that exist throughout history. This is not equal treatment. When the white middle class migrates they're called expats, and get to live in nice places. I don't buy into this excuse, and neither does most of the people you're talking about. The economy is as manmade as the rest of society, and so are its outcomes. Also, like I said, my sole proposal is to change it from Liberal Values into Egalitarian Values I don't think such a simple change requires the sandbox, but rather simply a go ahead. 78.69.180.157 ( talk) 19:03, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
The very first paragraph in the article:
Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is hostility to, prejudice, or discrimination against Jews.[1][2][3] A person who holds such positions is called an antisemite. Antisemitism is generally considered to be a form of racism.[4][5] It has also been characterized as a political ideology which serves as an organizing principle and unites disparate groups which are opposed to liberalism.[6]
78.69.180.157 ( talk) 19:03, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
Thanks; I think there are a number of issues with that sentence and have removed it. Jontel ( talk) 15:21, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
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Meaninf of semitic: /info/en/?search=Semitic_people
A member of any of the peoples who speak or spoke a Semitic language, including in particular the Jews and Arabs.
My argument is simple, how can the word antisemitism be used as anti Jewish, when the definition of the word Semite/Semitic describes a group of people speaking a language. so if the you add the "Anti" t Semitic it must mean a group of people who do not speak a particular language. This page is inaccurate and 141.0.147.90 ( talk) 10:10, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
Antisemitism [...] is hostility to, prejudice, or discrimination against Jews. That seems plausible if 'semite' mean 'jew', but it doesn't does it? 31.48.245.78 ( talk) 21:29, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
@ RolandR, Fidelioas, and Île flottante: Content disputes are not vandalism. Unfounded accusations of vandalism constitute personal attacks. Please work this out here on the talk page, not edit summaries. --jpgordon 𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇 20:02, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
This sentence seems clumsy to me and needs punctuation and rephrasing:
"In Eastern Europe the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the instability of the new states has brought the rise of nationalist movements and the accusation against Jews for the economic crisis, taking over the local economy and bribing the government alongside with traditional and religious motives for antisemitism such as blood libels".
My suggestion is this:
"In Eastern Europe the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the instability of the new states has brought the rise of nationalist movements and accusations against Jews of responsibility for the economic crisis, of taking over the local economy and of bribing the government, along with traditional and religious motives for antisemitism (such as blood libels)".
I don't want to make the edit myself in case I have changed the sense in the wrong way. truthordare ( talk) 17:01, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
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X - Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is hostility to, prejudice, or discrimination against Jews and Arabs.
Y- Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is hostility to, prejudice, or discrimination against any of the peoples who speak or spoke a Semitic language, including in particular the Jews and Arabs.
The definition above is incorrect - Semites are members of any of the peoples who speak or spoke a Semitic language, including in particular the Jews and Arabs. - The current text states that it's just Jewish people, this is incorrect and could be construed as targeting.
Change X for Y Warpeye ( talk) 16:12, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
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ElHef (
Meep?)
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Change “ Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is hostility to, prejudice, or discrimination against Jews.[1][2][3] “ to “ Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is hostility to, prejudice, or discrimination against Jewish, Arabic, Amharic, Tigrignia, Tigre peoples.” Sam Seeking Insight ( talk) 01:13, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
shouldn't the definition include that antisemittism is considered hatred towards Jews based on the fact that they are Jews? Hating your neighbour (who happens to be Jewish) for stealing your car, is not antisemittic. However, hating him for his religious believes is. Wikipedia definition as of today: "Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is hostility to, prejudice, or discrimination against Jews" My suggestion: "Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is hostility to, prejudice, or discrimination against Jews, based on the fact that they are Jews"
81.167.68.89 ( talk) 09:04, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
Hello,
Under the 21st-Century European antisemitism header is the following claim:
"This rise in antisemitic attacks is associated with both the Muslim anti-Semitism and the rise of far-right political parties as a result of the economic crisis of 2008.[219] This rise in the support for far right ideas in western and eastern Europe has resulted in the increase of antisemitic acts, mostly attacks on Jewish memorials, synagogues and cemeteries but also a number of physical attacks against Jews.[220]"
Neither of the sources cited support that claim. In the first case, citation [219] (shown here: [1] ), there is a dead link; I've tried searching for the article online but I haven't come up with anything, i.e. I can't find the original nor can I find any copies of the article in question, or indeed anything citing the original article. In the second case, citation [220] (shown here: [2] ), the cited ADL report does not substantiate the claim made. The ADL report is a survey of attitudes towards Jews among various major European nations. The questions in the report deal mostly with belief in Jewish stereotypes and perceptions of Jews. It does not include anything about the far right, still less anything about actual attacks on Jews.
This being the case, the claim made is a bare claim. As it stands, the claim looks like speculation to me (albeit plausible speculation, although that's not the standard of proof for Wikipedia as far as I know). The claim needs to be either properly substantiated or, in the event that no proof can be supplied, removed.
95.146.110.224 ( talk) 22:03, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
References
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I would like to add an external link from an American magazine. The article first appeared in 1915 and seeks to explain the anti-semitism that existed in W.W. I Germany: http://www.oldmagazinearticles.com/article-summary/jews_in_ww1_germany#.XpSqbIhKiLk 172.116.188.73 ( talk) 18:11, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
In the description it is written that it was first introduced in the mid 1800s by a jewish man from Germany. And no arab stepped his foot in Germany in the 1800s. This term was ok for up until now. This term have lost it's logical value, it is illogical. As there are other semites, arabs in palestine and in whole remaining world, who are very hostile against jews. Those arabs are hostile not because jews are semites, otherwise it would be very ridiculous. They are hostile due to a political reasons. I would to change the term to antijewism, or antijudaism if used in a religious context, as judaism is practiced mainly by jews and if outsider wants to accept it, he/she should go through very long and hard learning process of learning religion and culture of jews. And if he accomplishes everything well he is still looked upon as the jew of the 2nd, 3rd and etc. rank. My personal suggestion is to not to stick to dictionary definitions. It is ok for dictionaries to have such logical flaws as it gives an interpretation of the term. And even the interpretation is correct, the term cannot be used to point at to arabs as thay are themselves are semites. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.139.137.29 ( talk) 20:46, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
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A semite is specifically a person that speaks a semitic language. Therefore, it is prejudicial to only include Jewish people as Semites. Arabs should also be included in the description. Politics should not play any role in this; please make these changes accordingly. Thank you. Kareem Ebn El Galaa Arab 15:41, 5 June 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kareemarab ( talk • contribs) 15:41, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
John of Reading, in an edit summary a little while ago, commented "I'm assuming this quote is a translation". I checked the text, and noticed that this related to footnote 292 in the article, which refers to "Laurens 2002". However, there is no further reference to Laurens or this work in the article. In an attempt to locate the missing reference, I discovered that this footnote was added in an edit by Pluto2012 in May 2016, which added references to "Laurens 2002" and "Sachar 1961" without specifying the titles or adding them to the bibliography. This omission has apparently not previously been noticed. Although I could possibly research further and establish which books are intended, this may be mistaken - especially as page numbers are referenced. Pluto has not edited since May 2018, but it Was her 1961"?would be a great help if they could add the missing information. Failing that, is anyone in a position to definitively identify the works cited in this footnote? RolandR ( talk) 20:17, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
Can I request that the following: ‘Antisemitism is generally considered to be a form of racism.’ Be updated to ‘Antisemitism is racism.’
(No from of racism should ever be tolerated. Cloaking it, by referring to with another name, does not change that.) Sabrashicksa ( talk) 08:34, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
What the subject says. "Anti-Semitism" is more commonly used than "antisemitism", and "anti-Semitism" is the main definition on Wiktionary. Thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by SwiftestCat ( talk • contribs) 20:15, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
-- Hodgdon's secret garden ( talk) 08:50, 10 August 2020 (UTC). . . it’s mainly in the United States that one still finds the hyphen. Most of Europe uses 'antisemitism.' It’s not hyphenated in Hebrew, either. So, in a sense, J. is joining the majority. Even the ADL, the venerable anti-hate organization, released a statement announcing that it was abandoning the hyphen. After 'reviewing the history and consulting with other leading experts,' the statement said, 'we have determined that this is the best way to refer to hatred toward Jews.' [14] Dropping the hyphen [15] in antisemitism is also a political statement with a deeper cultural significance, similar to capitalizing the word Black, which we adopted last month to acknowledge the reality of a shared Black culture and heritage. As the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance wrote in 2015 when it urged adoption of the one-word term, 'At a time of increased violence and rhetoric aimed towards Jews, it is urgent that there is clarity and no room for confusion or obfuscation when dealing with antisemitism.' [16] We agree. Changing the word won’t get rid of the phenomenon. But it will make crystal clear what we are talking about.
@ RolandR: I've reverted your edit, which reintroduced a grammatical error. – Roscelese ( talk ⋅ contribs) 19:17, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
Being for many Jewish leaders the main historic source of the Christian antisemitism, Matthew 27:25 shall be mentioned in this article and not in uniquely in the history of antisemitism and similar ones. To cite only this verse or the related 1 Thessalonians 2 means not to give a WP:NPOV.
Differently from Jewish-like and Jewish-oriented, is not so simple to find secondary sources for a comment on non-antisemite verse of the New Testament.
All those elements converge in saying Jesus didn't deny to be Jewish nor he denied the Jewish history-traditions and the possibility of salvation for the Israelites. He instituted a new non-Levitic priesthood, but the same St Paul who talked of it, also spoke of the thomb of king David, like St Peter did. Sources are necessary to cite them in a WP:NPOV article. Philosopher81sp ( talk) 10:34, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
If the topic is Christian antisemitism, don't you think you should instead go to the article Antisemitism in Christianity to make your suggestions? Dimadick ( talk) 17:54, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
I find your proposed edit both difficult to understand and very distant from a neutral point of view. Your invocation of Christian scripture in such a way that implies they are some absolute, unquestionable truth like a Law of physics is troubling. This is definitively not the article to cover such a niche doctrinal question of Christianity. As Dimadick suggested, I too think that this train of thought is better suited to an article on Christianity such as Antisemitism in Christianity. Île flottante ( talk) 23:02, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
Bernspeed ( talk) 14:59, 23 January 2021 (UTC) I was saying that Judaism is not a race, because race and religion are different characteristics. However, somebody reverted the edit because according the revert comment/description, antisemites think that Judaism is a race even though the consensus agrees with what I am saying. But, I am not sure if we should say that it is generally considered a form of racism and saying can be is a more fair form. And, it said to write it in the talk before doing anything, so that is what I am doing.
This term is being abuse globally ! The jews are maximum 2% of the sémite people. The use of the term to describe hate and violence for jews only, make a big impact in the general opinion about jews (many thinks the jews are arrogant or stupid to use it). This term even used against Iranians, which many are Sémites like the rest of the middle east. I request to change the opening text to put spot light on that issue. Sea.eyal ( talk) 09:09, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
From the outset the term "anti-Semitism" bore special racial connotations and meant specifically prejudice against Jews. The term is confusing, for in modern usage 'Semitic' designates a language group, not a race. In this sense, the term is a misnomer, since there are many speakers of Semitic languages (e.g. Arabs, Ethiopians, and Arameans) who are not the objects of antisemitic prejudices, while there are many Jews who do not speak Hebrew, a Semitic language. Though 'antisemitism' could be construed as prejudice against people who speak other Semitic languages, this is not how the term is commonly used.However, it isn't correct to say that this is misusing it - the term has a slightly unintuitive etymology, which could potentially confuse someone who had never heard it before, but its meaning in English is clear, and it's hardly the only word whose etymology gives it a meaning that doesn't line up with what you might expect ("Inflammable means flammable? What a country!") -- Aquillion ( talk) 09:12, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
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Do change article title (antisemitism). This article describes "antijewism". The current title référés to the Semites people which the jews are less then 2%.
This is misleading and generates hate. 66.249.156.26 ( talk) 13:50, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
"In the early 1940s the aviator Charles Lindbergh and many prominent Americans led The America First Committee in opposing any involvement in the war against Fascism. During his July 1936 visit to Nazi Germany, a few weeks before the 1936 Summer Olympics, Lindbergh wrote letters saying that there was "more intelligent leadership in Germany than is generally recognized". The German American Bund held parades in New York City during the late 1930s, where members wore Nazi uniforms and raised flags featuring swastikas alongside American flags."
Opposition to the entrance of the United States to the war in Europe is not proof of antisemitism. This is really a slander unless someone can provide specific evidence of Charles Lindbergh's antisemitism. If it exists (preferably in his own words), then quote and cite it here. Otherwise it should be removed from this article. To follow in the next sentence with material on Bund is guilt by association. Seki1949 ( talk) 20:08, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
I added a section on "Reformation", with links to relevant articles. This is meant to be a starting point for editors. Please refactor and expand. There are existing articles that cover this ground, that should at least be referenced. To this day, German neo-nazi websites quote Martin Luther admiringly, and to overlook his contribution to anti-semitism and his suggestion of what became the nazi "final solution" is a major oversight. The Lutheran church has formally rejected some of his more egregious demands, such as the one that Jews should be put in concentration camps. Jaredscribe ( talk) 22:22, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
I just removed the section "Indology". The main reason is that it doesn't seem relevant. If it were relevant for this article, it should be mentioned in a history of antisemitism, not just in a book on the history of indology. Additionally, the section has more problems: It gives no details on when German indologists promoted antisemitism (before or after the Holocaust ?). It leaves the reader with a lot of questions: Why should indologists manipulate their research "with the objective of fueling European antisemitism" ? How can equating Jews with Brahmins fuel antisemitism ? How can this result in anti-Brahmanism ? -- Rsk6400 ( talk) 19:29, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
I don't like the section at all. (1) It is unsatisfactory that the only citation is a range of 138 pages in a book which mentions the word "anti-semitism" only in footnotes with one exception that refers to a previous century. (2) Where does "arbitrarily" come from; I don't find it in the source and it is also implausible as fringe theories nearly always have an internal non-arbitrary "logic". (3) Where does "with the objective of fueling European antisemitism" come from? The closest I can find is on page 307 which is more nuanced: "If it is true that German researches into ancient Indian texts played a formative role in the growth of anti-Semitism, it is equally true that those researches, from their very inception, were already shaped by German anti-Semitism." Note that this says it played a role, not that it was an objective. (We can reasonably assume such an objective existed, but our assumptions are not a replacement for a citation. Where does the source state it?) (4) The source does not mention "Indo-Aryan migration" under that name; if it is there under another name page numbers need to be provided. (5) "This identification required equating Brahmins with Jews"—where is that in the source? The closest I can find is comparison, not equation (p335). I looked at every occurrence of "Jew" in the book. (6) On page 21 the author notes that the German Indologists included a significant minority of Jews until the Nazi purge of Jewish scholars. In summary, this section is far below the required standard and it is not sourced. Zero talk 03:18, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
I just restored the statement about Iranian antisemitism which seems to have been inserted by an editor with a COI connection to ADL. After looking at the relevant discussion at Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard#Anti_Defamation_League_citation_advocacy, I want to thank Graywalls for drawing attention to a serious problem. But in itself, the statement is relevant, and I wouldn't like to see it removed with the sole objective of discouraging further COI edits. -- Rsk6400 ( talk) 06:55, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
The last word of the very first sentence should be replaced ("Jews" <- "Semites") E.g the first sentence should be: "Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is hostility to, prejudice, or discrimination against Semites" Sea.eyal ( talk) 21:02, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
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Antisemitism is a movement against semit people, and here it is written in the context of anti judaism and that is not correct.
Please explain how you came to this conclussion with facts.
Thank you Gzkras ( talk) 14:59, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
After reading through all of this material it seems that hardly any reason is given as to why antisemitism occurs. I would assume not everybody that practices antisemitism is irrational so it would be nice to know their reasons behind doing it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.239.67.183 ( talk) 00:42, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
@ Enthusiast01: Although now sourced, in my opinion your insertion of antisemitism against non-Jews still has a serious problem: The lede should summarize the article, not introduce new ideas. As far as I can see, the problem of antisemitism against sympathetic non-Jews is not discussed in the article in any depth that would merit mentioning it in the lede. Rsk6400 ( talk) 09:41, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
Anybody updating this page who can help keep current antisemitic attacks updated. Just an example, I was reading through the section on France and I think the trial of Sarah Halimi is a notable example. I would edit it myself, but I am fairly new to Wikipedia and I get totally lost at what is considered "historical 21st century" and what is considered "current situation". Any clarification or is better to merge the two sections and just separate 21st century antisemitism by region? Like I said, I am new user so I don't want to make any radical changes. Thanks! -- RCrew92 ( talk) 12:15, 23 May 2021 (UTC)Rcrew92 23 May 2021
If you have an opinion, please share. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 15:38, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
Talk:Ilhan_Omar#RFC has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Benevolent human ( talk) 00:34, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
It is not "also known as anti-semitism." The International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance rejects the hyphenation, as it is a misguided attempt to discredit the hatred of Jews. I demand that that is removed or edited to state "often called by the misnomer anti-semitism" Xamgerg ( talk) 23:58, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
My goodness; you "demand" it, do you? What if I refuse?
And do you really mean "misguided attempt to discredit the hatred of Jews"? Do you think it's misguided to discredit any kind of hatred, or just of Jews? What does a hyphen have to do with Jew-hatred?
MrDemeanour ( talk) 20:07, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
An editor added Critical race theory to the "See also" section and another removed it saying it is "Unsourced, unrelated, not in article". I restored, saying it doesn't need sourcing, it is related, and doesn't need to be in the article. It has been removed again, the editor saying "Unrelated. Take it to talk."
Antisemitism is essentially racism. Critical race theory is a theory of racism. They are self-evidently related, whatever one might think of either subject. Captainllama ( talk) 22:20, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
I'm looking to add a section on the origins of anti-semitism in West Francia, using the research of Warren Pezé's 'Amalaire Et La communautée Juive De Lyon À propos de l’antijudaïsme Lyonnais à l’époque Carolingienne’ that places ninth century Lyon as a hot spot for brewing anti-semitic ideologies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tubbyavocados ( talk • contribs) 14:02, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
The opener…
directed against all Semitic people
… should IMO be changed into…
directed against all peoples once considered Semitic
… to account for that "Semitic people", just like the linked article makes clear ("was a term", "now largely obsolete outside […] linguistics"), is an outdated term no longer in use for serious texts. — 84.163.110.146 ( talk) 16:18, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 October 2018 and 5 December 2018. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
MichaelSeigel.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 14:29, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
The Roman Jewish wars were pivotal moments in Jewish history, especially Hadrian's renaming of Judea and the banishment of the Jews from Jerusalem. There is also a lot of scholarly discussion in regards to whether or not Hadrian perpetrated genocide. TablemannDanny231 ( talk) 18:44, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
Okay, upon further investigation I see "rebellions" has a hyper-link, but surely a sentence or two should be given to describe the events? Especially considering this demographic shift is what really started the Jewish diaspora in the huge form it exists in today — Preceding unsigned comment added by TablemannDanny231 ( talk • contribs) 18:46, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
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change Tunisia, as the only Middle Eastern country under direct Nazi control during World War II, was also the site of racist antisemitic measures such as the yellow star, prison camps, deportations, and other persecution. In 1948, approximately 105,000 Jews lived in Tunisia" to "Tunisia, under direct Nazi control during World War II, was also the site of racist antisemitic measures such as the yellow star, prison camps, deportations, and other persecution. In 1948, approximately 105,000 Jews lived in Tunisia"
"as the only Middle Eastern country" removed TheLime1 ( talk) 12:01, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
Not sure where this fits in the article but I think this should be added somewhere:
The study of antisemitism has become politically controversial because of differing interpretations of the Holocaust and the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. [1] There are two competing views of antisemitism, eternalism and contextualism. [2] The eternalist view sees antisemitism as separate from other forms of racism and prejudice and an exceptionalist, transhistorical force teleologically culminating in the Holocaust. [2] [3] Hannah Arendt criticized this approach, writing that it provoked "the uncomfortable question: ‘Why the Jews of all people?’ . . . with the question begging reply: Eternal hostility." [4] Zionist thinkers and antisemites draw different conclusions from what they perceive as the eternal hatred of Jews; according to antisemites, it proves the inferiority of Jews, while for Zionists it means that Jews need their own state as a refuge. [5] [6] Most Zionists do not believe that antisemitism can be combatted with education or other means. [5]
The contextual approach treats antisemitism as a type of racism and focuses on the historical context in which hatred of Jews emerges. [7] Some contextualists restrict the use of "antisemitism" to refer exclusively to the era of modern racism, treating anti-Judaism as a separate phenomenon. [8] Historian David Engel has challenged the project to define antisemitism, arguing that it essentializes Jewish history as one of persecution and discrimination. [9] Engel argues that the term "antisemitism" is not useful in historical analysis because it implies that there are links between anti-Jewish prejudices expressed in different contexts, without evidence of such a connection. [4]
References
(
t ·
c)
buidhe
23:18, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
Re this edit I think that you need a consensus to remove longstanding information from the article. Regarding the sources, there is no prohibition on using reliable newspapers. If you think that better sources are needed you should've tagged it with {{Template:Better source needed}} so that other users can look for them. Alaexis ¿question? 07:56, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
Here is what I'm proposing as a replacement for the current definition section, which is long, rambling and doesn't adequately inform the reader of different definitions.
Antisemitism is difficult to define, [1] although the basic meaning is hatred of Jews. [2] There are multiple conceptions of antisemitism, [3] [4] which has been defined as the ideology and political movement started by Marr, [4] the rejection of Jews as a distinct collective, [5] an individual prejudice against Jews—ranging from mild to extreme [6]—and a deep-seated aspect of Western civilization or modernity. [7] [8] Anti-Zionism and sometimes criticism of Israeli government policies have also been described as antisemitic, which some call new antisemitism. [5] Other actions such as violence against Jews or Jewish sites, or Holocaust denial are uncontroversially considered antisemitic. [9] The Working Definition of Antisemitism has been adopted by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance and some countries, although it is one of the most controversial definitions of antisemitism. The definition's examples focus on Israel and have been used to censor criticism of Israel. [10] Other definitions include the Jerusalem Declaration on Antisemitism and the Nexus Document. [8] [3]
Buidhe, am I correct in understanding that your proposal is to replace the entire existing 'Definition' section of the article (almost 800 words) with your 150-word text? AndyTheGrump ( talk) 21:28, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
Rsk6400 I still don't think this is a good article organization, for a number of reasons. First of all, the article is already above the recommended size for readability, removing the by country section helps keep it under the limit. Second, I do not think it's possible to give a good overview of antisemitism in each country within the size restrictions of WP:Article size. Third, I think the racism article is a better model for organization, which does not have a by country section but instead a separate article racism by country. ( t · c) buidhe 08:54, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
Why isn't there anything in the External links section at the moment? Mcljlm ( talk) 00:08, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
I guess it's too "in the news" for this article, but wow. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 11:12, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
"They have undoubtedly had a difficult Jewish problem, but why is it necessary to handle it so unreasonably?", acknowledgement on Lindbergh's part that he agreed with the Nazis that Germany had a "Jewish problem." - the "acknowledgement on Lindbergh's part that he agreed with the Nazis that Germany had a "Jewish problem" bit is an opinion, that of the author of the cited source. So it needs to be reworded to reflect that. 92.1.144.176 ( talk) 02:33, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
@ Dr.Pinsky, Vitamortisachla, and Altanner1991: I restored the version as of 2 June. I think that the text that Altanner1991 copied from anti-Middle Eastern sentiment gives undue weight to single studies, single authors, and one single country (i.e. the U.S.). In fact, the most horrific instance of antisemitism, i.e. the Holocaust, had nothing to do with the U.S., so IMHO this article should not cover US antisemitism in too much detail. Rsk6400 ( talk) 11:22, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
I would like to point out that half the neo-Nazis today live in the United States, and the other half live in Russia. Major
WP:NPOV issues with the removal of US-related content.
Altanner1991 (
talk)
10:50, 17 July 2022 (UTC)
I am changing my stance as the content was indeed not worthy enough. Thank you.
Altanner1991 (
talk)
23:20, 17 July 2022 (UTC)
I wonder in view of Yehuda Bauer's quote user:Rsk6400 if "the term antisemitism acquired pejorative connotations" should be in this instance "the terms anti-Semite and anti-Semitic acquired pejorative connotations". I suggest that as someone who emails authors and publishers whenever I see the hyphen used and removes the hyphen if I see it in WP articles. Mcljlm ( talk) 13:29, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
Nobody says, 'I am anti-Semitic.' You cannot, after Hitler. The word has gone out of fashion.I can't access the cited source right now, but given Bauer's other work, which unambiguously takes the perspective that antisemitism still exists today, I would be genuinely shocked if the source didn't confirm this reading. It's also worth noting that we currently have well-cited claims in the lead establishing that the German term Antisemitismus was originally coined as a more-politically-correct euphemism for Judenhass, a precedent for the non-pejorative origin of the term, irrespective of the reprehensibility of the content it represents. signed, Rosguill talk 16:30, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
Hello the claim has only one source that being a guardian article
In Eastern Europe the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the instability of the new states has brought the rise of nationalist movements and the accusation against Jews for the economic crisis, taking over the local economy and bribing the government, along with traditional and religious motives for antisemitism such as blood libels. Writing on the rhetoric surrounding the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, Jason Stanley relates these perceptions to broader historical narratives: "the dominant version of antisemitism alive in parts of eastern Europe today is that Jews employ the Holocaust to seize the victimhood narrative from the 'real' victims of the Nazis, who are Russian Christians (or other non-Jewish eastern Europeans)".[228] He calls out the "myths of contemporary eastern European antisemitism – that a global cabal of Jews were (and are) the real agents of violence against Russian Christians and the real victims of the Nazis were not the Jews, but rather this group."[228
"the dominant version of antisemitism alive in parts of eastern Europe today is that Jews employ the Holocaust to seize the victimhood narrative from the 'real' victims of the Nazis, who are Russian Christians (or other non-Jewish eastern Europeans)".[228] He calls out the "myths of contemporary eastern European antisemitism – that a global cabal of Jews were (and are) the real agents of violence against Russian Christians and the real victims of the Nazis were not the Jews, but rather this group."
I have never heard the view in russian antisemitism that russian christians were the real victims of the holocaust
In russia neo-nazis deny the holocaust whilst antisemitic politicians like zhirnovsky have given up on it. I want people to provide extra sources or remove the part
Also for some people putin calling zelensky a ”nazi” isn’t antisemitism it’s a lie to envoke ww2 he would do it no mater what etnicity or political ideology the leader of ukraine has. Zelensky is objectively a centrist liberal. 176.72.99.98 ( talk) 04:04, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
Did Wikipedia editors discuss why not call the article just "anti-Semitism" as Britannica? Are there present other academic sources calling that "Antisemism"? PoetVeches ( talk) 18:41, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
@ Dottasriel2000, which source are you relying on for your inclusion of Abyssinians for your recent edit? I do not see it in Bein, the closest reference, nor do I see them mentioned elsewhere on the page. Freelance-frank ( talk) 17:52, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
Please add the following to the lede:
Objections to the usage of the term, such as the obsolete nature of the term "Semitic" as a racial term and the exclusion of discrimination against non-Jewish Semitic peoples, have been raised since at least the 1930s. [1] [2]
2601:547:B05:5F8:FD87:C7FB:46F1:6688 ( talk) 01:38, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
References
It has long been realised that there are objections to the term anti-Semitism and therefore an endeavour has been made to find a word which better interprets the meaning intended. Already in 1936 Bolkestein, for example, wrote an article on Het "antisemietisme" in de oudheid (Anti-Semitism in the ancient world) in which the word was placed between quotation marks and a preference was expressed for the term hatred of the Jews… Nowadays the term anti-Judaism is often preferred. It certainly expresses better than anti-Semitism the fact that it concerns the attitude to the Jews and avoids any suggestion of racial distinction, which was not or hardly, a factor of any significance in ancient times. For this reason Leipoldt preferred to speak of anti-Judaism when writing his Antisemitsmus in der alten Welt (1933). Bonsirven also preferred this word to Anti-Semitism, "mot moderne qui implique une théorie des races".
The term 'anti-Semitism' was unsuitable from the beginning for the real essence of Jew-hatred, which remained anchored, more or less, in the Christian tradition even when it moved via the natural sciences, into racism. It is doubtful whether the term which was first publicized in an institutional context (the Anti-Semitic League) would have appeared at all if the 'Anti-Chancellor League,' which fought Bismarck's policy, had not been in existence since 1875. The founders of the new Organization adopted the elements of 'anti' and 'league,' and searched for the proper term: Marr exchanged the term 'Jew' for 'Semite' which he already favored. It is possible that the shortened form 'Sem' is used with such frequency and ease by Marr (and in his writings) due to its literary advantage and because it reminded Marr of Sem Biedermann, his Jewish employer from the Vienna period.
The root word Semite gives the false impression that antisemitism is directed against all Semitic people, e.g., including Arabs, Assyrians, and Arameans.
It would be interesting to see the article explore the aspect where people, due to general xenophobic attitude are also classed as Jews and subjected to antisemitic abuse. For example, in the case of anti-Polonism (since Poland is a successor state to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in which most Jews lived in early modern era). This happened to Marie Curie who came from Warsaw (at the time a city with a very large Jewish population), and was subjected to antisemitic abuse. Is it possible that there is a link between Antisemitism and antipolonism? 51.155.213.25 ( talk) 16:00, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
Shouldn't the Dreyfus affair be under the Persecution header as well as the tropes header? ModernMephisto ( talk) 10:00, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
I edited the wikilink "came to power" in the Section 3.11 20th century sentence starting "In Germany, shortly after Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party came to power" so that the link led directly to /info/en/?search=Adolf_Hitler%27s_rise_to_power#Seizure_of_control_(1931%E2%80%931933) instead of via the Redirect from Machtergreifung (indicated by "Adolf Hitler's rise to power (Redirected from Machtergreifung)" at the top of the page. I'd be grateful if Rsk6400 or someone else could explain why he reverted my edit, why the indirect link is better than the direct link. Mcljlm ( talk) 11:39, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
To editor Mureungdowon: The "See Also" section of articles is intended to provide links to other articles on topics with direct connection to the this one. It is not intended for listing articles on topics that editors think are somehow analogous, nor to provide editorial commentary on them. Note that except for the more broad topic of xenophobia, all the links so far are about aspects of antisemitism. If we want to add all the examples in the world of racial or religious persecution, the list would be very much longer. It isn't possible that your addition will be accepted and you should stop trying. Zero talk 13:32, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
Here is the new draft that I WP:Boldly proposed. See my edit summaries for arguments in support of each proposed change, and you may respond to those in reply.
is an ideology that promotes hostility, prejudice, discrimination, incitement, or violence directed against Jews,[2][3][4] as a matter of racist hate.[5][6] A proponent is said to be an antisemite.
The compound term Antisemitismus was brought into common usage in the late 19th century by the Anti-semitic league, and was coined in Germany in 1879[7] as a scientific-sounding term for the traditional and religious Judenhass ('Jew-hatred'),[8][9][10][11][12] and this has been its common use since then.[8][13][14]
It is also applied to previous and later anti-Jewish incidents. Notable instances of persecution include the Rhineland massacres preceding the First Crusade in 1096, the Edict of Expulsion from England in 1290, the 1348–1351 persecution of Jews during the Black Death, the massacres of Spanish Jews in 1391, the persecutions of the Spanish Inquisition, the expulsion from Spain in 1492, the Cossack massacres in Ukraine from 1648 to 1657, various anti-Jewish pogroms in the Russian Empire between 1821 and 1906, the 1894–1906 Dreyfus affair in France, the Holocaust in German-occupied Europe during World War II and Soviet anti-Jewish policies. Though historically most manifestations of antisemitism have taken place in Christian Europe, since the early 20th century antisemitism has increased in the Middle East.
Antisemitism has historically been manifested in many ways, ranging from expressions of hatred of or discrimination against individual Jews to organized pogroms by mobs, police forces, or genocide.
The root word Semite gives the false impression that antisemitism is directed against all Semitic people, e.g., including Arabs, Assyrians, and Arameans, but in origin and common use, antisemitism refers to hate directed at Jews in particular
Regards, Jaredscribe ( talk) 03:21, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
It's more precise and talks about jews specifically.
It's similar to using antislavism when talking about a particular slav ethnicity. or antigermanism when talking about a specific germanic ethnicity.
antisemitism groups all semites together and jews use the word all the time, when, in fact, the conversation is about jews only not about all semites. it's not logical Dndm49 ( talk) 17:06, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
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The National Jewish Outreach Program (NJOP) does acknowledge the Jewish origin of the word, stating that the term “Antisemitism” came about (in its Germanic form) in 1860, when Moritz Steinschneider, an Austrian Jewish scholar, introduced the term "antisemitische vorurteile" (anti-Semitic prejudices). He used the expression in a piece he wrote countering the ideas of French philosopher Ernest Renan, who claimed that the Semitic race was inferior to the Aryan race. [1] Ealexbtti ( talk) 01:19, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
It is hardly known in the Anglosphere that Marr indeed popularized the term “anti-Semitism” by his book, but it was coined by a Jew named Moritz Steinschneider, from whom Marr took it: “He is considered the founder of scholarly Hebrew bibliography and, in the estimation of Judaist Günter Stemberger, was ‘the most universal Jewish scholar of his time.’ He coined the term anti-Semitism in 1860 in his criticism of Ernest Renan.” (German Wikipedia) 2A02:8109:1040:29C0:38D6:80CC:BC71:B212 ( talk) 01:08, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitismus#cite_note-Bein-3 Google also "steinschneider" with "antisemitism" together and you will find some sources, also the Dutch wiki says it (with source https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitisme#cite_note-2), some examples https://www.abc.net.au/religion/john-safran-semites-and-antisemitism/13967962 and https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:lJX96COzRA0J:https://www.jpost.com/tags/antisemitism&cd=8&hl=de&ct=clnk&gl=de (scroll down) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8109:1040:29C0:38D6:80CC:BC71:B212 ( talk) 04:06, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
The definition states that Middle East is anti Semitic. This Couldn’t be further from the truth. As an Arab, I’ve never heard any antisemitism in my whole life living in the Middle East. However, there is an anti-Israel sentiment here which should not be confused with religion. That’s like judging all Muslims off the actions of the Saudi government. This is an inaccurate and unfair depiction of the Arab world. 2001:1670:18:33D0:3902:B441:E9A6:3793 ( talk) 02:20, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
It is simply not true that the term anti-semitism was first coined or used by Moritz Steinschneider in 1860 in a response to the views of Ernest Renan. The term 'anti-semitic', which is the adjective of the noun anti-semitism, was used as early as 1851 in Thomas Carlyle, The life of John Sterling, 1st edition, 1851 (1 vol.), London: Chapman and Hall. Moreover, Renan cannot be associated with a form of anti-semitism which can be depicted as a hostile reaction against Jewish people. Ernest Renan was neither Houston Stewart Chamberlain nor Arthur de Gobineau. 213.47.191.250 ( talk) 11:58, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
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Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism)[a] is hostility to, prejudice towards, or discrimination against Arabs, Jews or other people who speak a Semitic language. 2601:803:17F:9150:6166:915E:5311:3C23 ( talk) 20:07, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
Timeline of antisemitism has an RfC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. patsw ( talk) 16:22, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
Can someone change the phrase "The term is confusing, for in modern usage 'Semitic' designates a language group, not a race..." to "The term has been characterized as confusing, for in modern usage 'Semitic' designates a language group, not a race..."
I think it sounds more encyclopedic to describe a term as being viewed as confusing, rather than just saying in Wikipedia's own voice that a term is confusing. JohnR1Roberts ( talk) 20:45, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
@ Misha Wolf This is a response to your reasoning for reverting my inclusion of the Jerusalem Declaration.
You mentioned 3 points, I shall address them.
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