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There are four queues filled, plus 222 noms on the noms page, including 50 that are approved. Do you suppose we are ready to quicken the pace? Seven hooks per queue would take us from 18 to 21 hooks per day -- that would be a small step that we should be able to handle... -- Orlady ( talk) 02:28, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
A few weeks ago, we had a brief discussion concerning the use of PD text in DYK submissions. I think it clear from that discussion that a consensus emerged that some PD text was acceptable in DYK submissions, but no consensus was reached as to precisely how much. In spite of this, SandyGeorgia reverted my restoration of the longstanding consensus version which reflected prevailing consensus, back to a version which clearly does not in that it effectively prohibits the use of any PD text. Having restored the longstanding consensus version a few minutes ago, Sandy has now immediately reverted back to her preferred version. [1]
There have been two recent discussions about this issue, here and here. The following summarizes what most other users have said about this issue:
AFAICT there were only two users who were opposed to any use of PD text in DYK submissions - SandyGeorgia and Nikkimaria. In these circumstances, it should be clear that the longstanding consensus version, which includes the crucial caveat "Try to" is the version which still has consensus. I am therefore reverting Sandy's edit. Gatoclass ( talk) 05:24, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
This issue needs resolution, so based on the above discussion, I am proposing that we formally adopt Materialscientist's suggestion that text copied from PD sources be dealt with by excluding it from the minimum text count.
The proposal is well intended, but I have reservations about whether it will be implemented in an environment of quid pro quo reviewing, and where there is no oversight of reviews. Here is the latest faulty hook reported at WP:ERRORS [2]-- showing a lack of rigour in review: Template:Did you know nominations/Phoenix United Mine. The hook appears faulty. Beating the dead horse once again that some sort of accountability at the level where hooks are passed to the mainpage would behoove this process. (See the quid pro quo review by the nominator with the faulty hook at Template:Did you know nominations/St Mary's Roman Catholic Church, Monmouth). SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 15:36, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
The hook for Frédéric Banquet, currently in Prep 2, is too long to attract attention, IMO. (It reads "...that rugby player Frédéric Banquet scored the first ever try in Super League history when he scored for Paris Saint-Germain against the Sheffield Eagles at Charlety Stadium on 29 March 1996?") I don't think that most of that detail adds any interest, but I can imagine that rugby fans might disagree. Would there be anything wrong with trimming it to "...that rugby player Frédéric Banquet scored the first ever try in Super League history?"?? -- Orlady ( talk) 04:32, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Ocak Işık Yurtçu was moved to a new spelling while on the main page. Can someone tweak the spelling of the main page accordingly? Thanks! Khazar ( talk) 18:20, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
I just reviewed my first double nomination. Does the proposed hook need to be present in both articles, or can it be present in only one? – Muboshgu ( talk) 20:32, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
I've been trying to close Template:Did you know nominations/eRulemaking but adding no to the passed= line breaks the template. Is it me or is the template itself broken? Prioryman ( talk) 21:52, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
Hi, I moved the page for this article but can't figure out how to update the nomination template. Please see the red link under Articles created/expanded on January 21. Thanks, Yoninah ( talk) 00:15, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
The fourth (Vashon High School) and fifth (Ibiranu) items have been accidentally combined into a single DYK. It would be great if someone could separate them. Thanks! BlueMoonset ( talk) 01:37, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
The sixth (earthquakes) item: shouldn't the final word, 'patches', be in double quotes rather than single quotes? Since it's an article about American earthquakes, I believe "patches" would be more appropriate punctuation. (Sorry I didn't notice this earlier.) BlueMoonset ( talk) 02:04, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
In the fifth hook, "fifty-seventh" and "second" have been changed to "57th" and "2nd" with a citation of "WP:ORDINAL".
As I pointed out in the review of that particular hook,
If DYK is one of those places, like infoboxes, where the numbers get preference over the words, then I'm fine with it, even if WP:ORDINAL doesn't mention DYK by name. But if it's just "WP:ORDINAL" that's being cited, my feeling is that you want the consistency of both words or both numbers. I frankly think "2nd" looks silly which is part of why I prefer words here. BlueMoonset ( talk) 06:32, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
A heads-up to the regulars here: The hook from Template:Did you know nominations/Bozeman Carnegie Library got pulled off the main page a few hours ago (after being there less than 2 hours) due to copyright concerns. The hook set is now off the main page; this hook was not restored or replaced. The only discussion of the issue seems to be at Wikipedia talk:Contributor copyright investigations#Just pulled_Bozeman Carnegie Library from the main page -- input, please?. The issue identified is best described as a borderline case of WP:close paraphrasing. -- Orlady ( talk) 17:35, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
Well, considering the allegations that PumpkinSky is Rlevse, methinks the problem might be in here, that you need better scrutiny towards copyvio, and you all might want to revisit consensus on any decisions that were made in the last month in which he participated. [4] SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 20:02, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
OK, I admit ... it really bugs me that we had our suspicions over at FAC, knew something was amiss, but from reviewing the archives here, nothing changed from 2010-- y'all let him waltz right back in here, take up where he left off (promoting and defending copyvio) and didn't even wonder. For gosh sakes, this was his hangout-- could y'all keep a closer eye in the future? SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 21:44, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
The discussion mentioned above is now on Talk:PumpkinSky, -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 19:44, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
I started out reviewing Template:Did you know nominations/Sisingamangaraja XII but ended up making many changes to the article myself. Could someone else please take over completing the review, since as I'm effectively now a co-author it wouldn't be appropriate for me to do so? Prioryman ( talk) 08:07, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
I see two quirky hooks in Prep 1, do we have too many of those? -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 11:15, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Would José Manuel Martín be ok to add to the DYK page? I went through the article and picked out these facts.
Martín's IMDB profile lists his appearances at a total of 113. Since the site isn't a reliable source, and I can't find another reference which specifically claims this number, would I need to cite each individual film for the first hook to pass? For the third hook, I cited his appearances in the "twilight" Spaghetti Westerns, specifically Amigo, Stay Away, though the source doesn't specifically say he played a peddler. Would I have to cite the actual film and the timecode for his cameo? I believe it's been in the public domain since 1992 but I could be wrong. 72.74.199.46 ( talk) 12:57, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
I was wondering whether the boilerplate instructions under each day's header on the nominations page should be updated, at least going forward. They currently read:
In particular, I think the "e.g." should use the new-style "Template:Did you know nominations/YOUR ARTICLE TITLE" format, and while that's being changed, the final two closing braces should be changed to a single closing paren. That would give:
I would also add a period at the end—"section (after this comment)."—but that's comparatively unimportant and there may be reasons not to.
One reason I'm suggesting this is that I think people are hand-deleting "Template:" from the version that's displayed for them to copy on their template creations page in order to match the example, when it's unnecessary for them to do so. I seem to remember doing just that hand-deletion on an early nomination of mine, before I had a better understanding of how the process worked. BlueMoonset ( talk) 15:47, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Question: The source upon which the hook is based, and upon which much of the page is based, was a newspaper article that the page creator accessed online a week after it was posted. Two weeks later, the article was already dropped from the newspaper's website. Can I go ahead and accept the nom AGF? Thanks, Yoninah ( talk) 22:56, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Hello. Is this the place to discuss contested hooks? I've tried contacting User:PKM with no response, probably due to the time zone difference. I'm hoping someone can help me out here. Basically, PKM has rejected my hook because she says it requires a fivefold expansion. However, this is not the case. In the comments section, I made a note that this was moved from user space within the five day nomination period. Per the rules, this is a new article that is eligible due to its initial (and current) character count. I think PKM missed the note and assumed it was an older article, which would make it subject to the fivefold expansion rule. Could someone take a look? Thanks. I'm currently reviewing Xinye Village. Viriditas ( talk) 00:29, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
Not sure what happened here: [5] Also, text contains verbatim text from a source without quotes. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 18:59, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Hello folks, I've reviewed and commented on Template:Did you know nominations/The Adventures of Abney & Teal, but not signed off on the nomination due to (what I see as) a lack of secondary sourcing, which is not strictly a DYK issue from what I can see, but in this current climate I would like someone familiar with reviewing to offer some guidance. Thank you. Someone another 20:42, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Eh, help? I've been working on Template:Did you know nominations/2000 UEFA Cup Final riots. I've had to do a lot of rewriting--for style, grammar, agreement with sources, etc--and just finished rewriting the hook. I need someone to help me out here, since I'm tired of the article and the subject matter. a. Someone please check the hook for length and tone and et cetera. b. Please also proofread the article and tweak where necessary (nominator isn't god's gift to writing, and neither am I; plus, I don't care for the topic). c. Please check the numbers: there are a lot of newspaper reports citing injuries and arrests, and I am not sure that the content in the article properly reflects what the sources give (mind you, such reports may change quickly from one day to the other--fortunately, they're all in very reliable sources).
Thank you so much! Drmies ( talk) 16:17, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
In the fourth hook of Queue 5, "an organ taken off a cadaver" looks very odd to me. I think "an organ taken from a cadaver" is better. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 21:31, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
That plagiarism and close paraphrasing is being discussed in this forum is because DYK performs a useful function in Wikipedia as it places new or enlarged articles under scrutiny. If I were to knowingly write a dodgy article, I would not nominate it for DYK. I have sympathy for Khazar, whose original article sparked this discussion because, in my view, Musa Muradov did not infringe policy. It seems a great pity that Khazar has been driven away by other peoples' attitudes and that the close paraphrasing issue has been taken to such extremes.
Detecting close paraphrasing is difficult and most reviewers of articles are nominators of other articles that they themselves have written. They are not necessarily the best people to take decisions on close paraphrasing and may spend no more time on their review than is necessary. When I have reviewed an article positively and later get a talk page message telling me of problems that I have missed, I find it discouraging. Cwmhiraeth ( talk) 12:00, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
the hook needs to say "at least ten" and the link re-directed to 1-Lysophosphatidylcholine. -- 70.31.8.76 ( talk) 12:36, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
In less than two hours Did you know will need to be updated, however the next queue either has no hooks or has not been approved by an administrator. It would be much appreciated if an administrator would take the time to ensure that DYK is updated on time by following these instructions:
Then, when the time is right I will be able to update the template. Thanks and have a good day, DYKUpdateBot ( talk) 22:07, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
The reviewer has requested a second opinion regarding article neutrality (disclosure: this is one of my co-nominations) Crisco 1492 ( talk) 23:14, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
I've been thinking about this issue for quite a while. I think it warrants further discussion.
At first I pondered opening a CCI on myself--I cannot guarantee that I never produced a WP text in a way that the original structure is still visible, and if I had the time and commitment I would find such similarities in articles up to FA. I am not even sure to possess the language capabilities to always re-tell a story in entirely different vocabulary and structure; as non-native writer I have only so many possibilities to rephrase.
Neither am I a lawyer. Where I come from copyright violation entails a certain level of creativity on the side of the original source, we call that threshold of originality. A standard eulogy for a prize-giving does not generally reach this threshold and can therefore not be the basis of a copyright claim. (It might be different in the US.) Similarly, plagiarism of a standard text has to be blatant in order to be called that way, even more so if it is only the structure that is thought to be stolen.
To base a plagiarism claim solely on the structure of the original, this structure must be unquestionably unique, outstanding, and recognisable. A standard obituary, short biography, or description of events cannot be the basis of such claim. I would therefore be hesitant to introduce a new charge, "structure plagiarism", for DYK contributors, as it seems to have happened de facto with SG's post above.
Regarding the specific example I agree it is too close to the original. But this is based on what MRG calls a blend of copied expression and duplicated structure. There are still too many similarities in the text which alone raise concerns. For instance, "Muradov himself was trapped in a basement" occurs in both original and copy, and at least the strange "himself" should have been reworded.
MRG makes more valid remarks up here which do not seem to have had much impact on the discussion. This is a pity because she's clearly literate in this topic. Her linked off-wiki essay, for instance, makes clear that a judge can decide only the clearest cases, and that everywhere else a jury is required. Now, SG should certainly not be the judge. As part of a larger jury (the readers of this page) she should maybe open up to opinions of her fellows or stand to be outvoted; I observe that not everyone passed the same judgment on the Musa Muradov article.
Sorry for the long post, I really feel this has not been discussed at the appropriate depth and detail. -- Pgallert ( talk) 19:48, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
In less than two hours Did you know will need to be updated, however the next queue either has no hooks or has not been approved by an administrator. It would be much appreciated if an administrator would take the time to ensure that DYK is updated on time by following these instructions:
Then, when the time is right I will be able to update the template. Thanks and have a good day, DYKUpdateBot ( talk) 23:44, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Some additional nomination reviews also would help move the process along. When we have a lot of reviewed hooks about a few very similar topics (be that topic baseball players, English illustrators, horses that won the Derby, fossil insects, biographies of historical politicians, or old buildings), it's hard to create a balanced set of hooks. -- Orlady ( talk) 18:34, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
Looks like I was just a minute or two too late with my corrections to prep area 1; someone will have to fix them in Queue 3 in the next seven hours.
Thanks! BlueMoonset ( talk) 16:49, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
I would frankly like to see an independent reviewer be the one to approve Template:Did you know nominations/Coimbatore bypass for inclusion here. Nikkimaria raised "phrasings and structures" concerns with a source, and the reviewing editor, Ansumang, first helped with the edits designed to alleviate the problem, and then gave the nomination a new clean bill of health.
What bothered me was that instead of someone not involved with the review closing it and moving it to a prep area, Ansumang both closed it and inserted the nominated hook into Prep 4. This strikes me as a clear conflict of interest: isn't there supposed to be someone completely unaffiliated with the nomination who makes the final determination as to whether it's ready to be included, and that person the one who moves it to a prep area? (If not, it seems to me a significant break: each step in the process should allow for a fresh pair of eyes to spot potential problems.) The article could be perfectly fine, or it could still need more work. Since it's currently in the next prep area that will move into the queues and can be expected to hit the front page within a day, I thought it would be best to mention this now. BlueMoonset ( talk) 03:51, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
User:DYKUpdateBot didn't post any notices on people's talk pages for the most recent DYK update. SmartSE ( talk) 13:49, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
Could someone take the time to review Template:Did you know nominations/Richard Elihu Sloan. As noted in the nomination's comments this hook is meant for the Centennial of Arizona Statehood (February 14) and it would be nice to be able to move it to the Special occasions holding area before the anniversary is over. -- Allen3 talk 18:20, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
I think Joseph Henry Kibbey may have been forgotten. He's been sitting in the special occasions area waiting for February 14th. Yngvadottir ( talk) 21:25, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
Can someone be so nice as to review this nom soon so that we can put the hook on prep/queue for Valentine's Day, please? Thanks. -- PFHLai ( talk) 22:07, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
Copied from above ( #Template:Did you know nominations/Zainal Mustafa) The reviewer at Template:Did you know nominations/Zainal Mustafa has requested a second opinion regarding article neutrality (disclosure: this is one of my co-nominations) Crisco 1492 ( talk) 23:14, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
Someone experienced please look at Template:Did you know nominations/Animal Justice Party. Some technical problem happened there, but I can't figure out. -- SupernovaExplosion ( talk) 08:34, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
Is this a good hook to save for March 8th? -- PFHLai ( talk) 20:03, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
I failed Template:Did you know nominations/Lourdes Central School, Mangalore because of major problems. The nominator is still frequently editing after I posted a message on his talk page so it seems like the editor isn't interested. I thought that maybe someone might want to help the nomination. SL93 ( talk) 21:34, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
Quick question -- is there a simple way to promote a hook, some template which you can put on the nom page of a hook to put the whole light green background on it? I have been straight copying what other editors do when they promote a hook, but is there a simpler way?
Thanks! Lord Roem ( talk) 03:42, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
In less than two hours Did you know will need to be updated, however the next queue either has no hooks or has not been approved by an administrator. It would be much appreciated if an administrator would take the time to ensure that DYK is updated on time by following these instructions:
Then, when the time is right I will be able to update the template. Thanks and have a good day, DYKUpdateBot ( talk) 22:05, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
Should we be reducing to six slots on all prep areas going forward until there's a better supply of completed DYK noms, or does the seventh slot need to be restored here. We seem to be running low on supply for the prep areas, though not on total nominations. BlueMoonset ( talk) 21:37, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
The hook for Zeckendorf Towers currently reads "[DYK …] that the outdoor space of Zeckendorf Towers make up the largest residential green roof in New York?" Should that be "outdoor spaces"? Or possibly "makes up"? As it stands, I think something grammatical is missing! HTH Nortonius ( talk) 13:55, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
The Bot didn't update at 16:00 UTC, so the update is over 50 minutes late as I write this. Whoever updates the page with the material currently in Queue 3, please note the correction that needs to be made (see Queue 3 section immediately above this one). Thanks! BlueMoonset ( talk) 16:53, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
This actor is fairly young: it is very likely that his father is still alive. As such, anything we say about him is subject to laws of libel. We can say that Jan Uddin has said this of his father: there has never been a court case, so we can't say that it happened. Mr Uddin senior might choose not to take action against his son, but that does not prevent him doing so against those repeating the claim. Kevin McE ( talk) 18:11, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
I've just done an edit to the Pain in My Heart hook, since it was comparing apples and oranges—an album to a song—but even now that it's song to song there's an underlying problem with it: you don't accuse a song of copyright infringement, you accuse the songwriter, in this case, Naomi Neville. You can say that a song was thought to be an infringing work, I suppose. Before this hits the front page or even gets promoted to a queue, either the hook needs to be reworded or the entry needs to be pulled temporarily while a better wording is found. Since it's an article about the album, the album/song differentiation needs to be maintained. BlueMoonset ( talk) 22:35, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
It's been 9 hours since the last DYK Main page update. I don't know if the bot is down. — Bruce1ee talk 05:05, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
In less than two hours Did you know will need to be updated, however the next queue either has no hooks or has not been approved by an administrator. It would be much appreciated if an administrator would take the time to ensure that DYK is updated on time by following these instructions:
Then, when the time is right I will be able to update the template. Thanks and have a good day, DYKUpdateBot ( talk) 19:15, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
Just a note, I got a credit for a DYK that listed Monkey Island (series) as the DYK, but in reality, it's Game Dev Story which is the main article (and the bolded one). I guess it somehow got screwed up when it was transfered to the queue or maybe I made a mistake inputting it? Either way, I'm not sure how to change these sorts of records. Nomader ( talk) 06:24, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
Over the last few weeks I have noticed multiple 'Did you know?' items that I felt were borderline advertisements. In particular, product and company-related entries written in such as way as to place the focus on other aspects of the statement(s) whilst still mentioning (and linking to) said companies and products. I would like to know if anyone else has noticed this and/or feels that policy should be revised; my motion is that 'Did you know?' nominations should not include trivia regarding present day companies and their (present or historic) products. prat ( talk) 16:18, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
I'd like to have this returned to the nomination page. It was approved, but with a caveat. I did not see the approval tick till just now and the reviewer wrote something that had missed my notice before and I'd like to address it so that my first proposed hook, which I think is more interesting, can be used. The fact was not cited in the story, which was just an oversight and I can easily fix this (and will get to it as soon as I post this). Thanks in advance. Marrante ( talk) 12:57, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
Just a reminder to reviewers: you can't always rely on Duplication Detector to tell you when there's a problem with an article. Take for example this nom: the size of the source prevented the tool from working properly, but a manual check showed large-scale near-verbatim copying. Nikkimaria ( talk) 15:34, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
In less than two hours Did you know will need to be updated, however the next queue either has no hooks or has not been approved by an administrator. It would be much appreciated if an administrator would take the time to ensure that DYK is updated on time by following these instructions:
Then, when the time is right I will be able to update the template. Thanks and have a good day, DYKUpdateBot ( talk) 12:30, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
The word described needs a preposition before the description: you cannot say the noise was described "ear-splitting, but the noise was described as "ear-splitting". However, since the description is a simile with the word as twice already, suggest that the horse was said to be " as near to perfection..." Kevin McE ( talk) 17:11, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
Rally driving is one discipline of motor sport; stunt driving is another altogether. Which is the singer claimed to have trained in? Having endured the video, I can't see anything in it that would be normally considered to be stunt driving. Kevin McE ( talk) 17:11, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
Another copyvio removed from the mainpage today: Template:Did you know nominations/Musa Muradov
It would help if folks would understand that copying the entire structure of a source is copyvio. See Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2009-04-13/Dispatches:
Adapting source text, whether by paraphrasing or summarizing, is a valuable skill, and contributors to Wikipedia need to be alert to the potential for inadvertent plagiarism. Many editors believe that by changing a few words here or there—or even by changing a great number of the words found in the original source—they have avoided plagiarism. This is not necessarily the case. Nor does the mere rearrangement of clauses, sentences, or paragraphs avoid the problem.
In other words, just because the duplication detector shows only a few words similar, we're not out of the woods.
In terms of both plagiarism and copyright, the author of a text not only "owns" the precise, creative language he or she uses, but less tangible creative features of presentation, which may incorporate the structure of the piece and the choice of facts.
and
In evaluating copyright concerns, the United States courts adopt a "substantial similarity" test that compares the pattern and sequence of two works, finding such similarity where "the ordinary observer [reading two works], unless he set out to detect the disparities, would be disposed to overlook them, and regard their aesthetic appeal as the same."[17] Even if all of the language is revised, a court may find copyright infringement under the doctrine of "comprehensive non-literal similarity" if "the pattern or sequence of the two works is similar".[18] Likewise, plagiarism may exist if readers comparing the two works would come away with a sense that one is copied from or too heavily based on another.
Every DYK I have examined from this nominator has the same problem: if you read the source, and then read the article, you are reading someone else's work, with a few words juggled. See examples at Template:Did you know nominations/Nosa Igiebor (journalist) and Template:Did you know nominations/Aboubakr Jamaï.
It's hard not to despair when no amount of scrutiny has brought any change to bear on DYK, in spite of at least three years of attempts to stem the tide here. Folks, you have a training ground here for new editors, and they continue to be rewarded for not learning how to paraphrase correctly. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 18:22, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
This is a specific example of the closely paraphrased article source structure in the Musa Muradov article.
Wikipedia: Background section
“Muradov graduated from Moscow State University's journalism department in 1982. He then returned to his home town of Grozny, Chechnya, where he began work for Groznensky Rabochy, a weekly newspaper established in 1917, then controlled by the Communist Party. After the 1991 dissolution of the Soviet Union, Muradov became the paper's editor-in-chief. However, Dzhokar Dudayev, president of Czechnya's new, unrecognized secessionist government, soon attempted to make the paper an official publication of his party, and Muradov and most of his staff quit. For the next two years, he worked teaching journalism at a local university as well as reporting for a small regional publication. In 1994, he fled the growing violence of the First Chechen War with his family, moving to Moscow.”
Source: “Awards 2003 – Muradov,” CPJ (2003).
“In 1982, after graduating from Moscow State University's journalism department, Muradov returned to Grozny and began reporting for Groznensky Rabochy, which, like all Soviet publications at that time, was controlled by the Communist Party. Following the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union, Groznensky Rabochy became an independent publication, and Muradov became its editor-in-chief. Two years later, as secessionist movements in the region gained momentum, Chechnya's separatist leader Dzhokar Dudayev attempted to convert Groznensky Rabochy into his administration's official publication. Muradov and most of his staff refused to compromise the paper's newfound freedom and walked away. Groznensky Rabochy was consequently shuttered, and Muradov took a job as a correspondent for a regional publication while teaching journalism at a local university. In 1994, with the situation becoming increasingly violent in Chechnya, Muradov and his family fled to Moscow.”
The question is does CPJ "own" facts pertaining to Muradov's life. Is there any other way to convey the same information in a coherent manner (probably chronological) that would not be too close to the source but still accurately reflect (no OR or opinion) what happened in the man's life? Froggerlaura ( talk) 19:04, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
I think Froggerlaura and Orlady do a good job here of demonstrating that the article follows a bit closely on the structure of the original and also that the creativity in the original is fairly low. I think it benefits from the change, but that the issues would be very unlikely to rise to the level of a copyright concern, which a court would probably determine with an "ordinary observer" test of the look and feel. -- Moonriddengirl (talk) 14:23, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
I've made a post here which may be of interest. What I've asked there is whether it is actually possibly to copyright a standard structure to an article such as chronological ordering frequently used in biographical articles? My view is that this is not in fact possible, as many biographical dictionaries and articles published in many different places, by different authors, all claiming their own copyright, frequently follow the same chronological structure when describing a person's life story. Biographies when they are in a stub state are essentially collections of facts about a person's life arranged in chronological order. As a biography develops, it is possible to make some sections thematic, or to follow the 'house style' that Wikipedia biography articles tend to adopt, but in cases where there are few sources, and those sources do nothing more than arrange facts in chronological order, the structure of a Wikipedia article will of necessity also follow that structure. Care should be taken to avoid exact duplication of structure, but some duplication will likely always be present. It might also help to be clearer what level of structure is being discussed. You can have duplication of structure at the clause level, the sentence level, the paragraph level, the section level, and the article level. The approach to avoiding or fixing such duplication of structure can vary, which is why being precise on what structure is being discussed is important. What level of structure was being duplicated in the examples above? Carcharoth ( talk) 21:39, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
While I appreciate the discussion here and below, I may as well make this decision moot by simply leaving Wikipedia. I'd been off for a while anyway, and was attempting a return after a diagnosis of chronic illness left me housebound for life this month. In retrospect, this is a silly place for me to be at this stressful juncture of my life, and facing discussion because I'm found to be in violation of a policy SG had to go back to
Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2009-04-13/Dispatches to find is just the last indicator.
I've never claimed to be a perfect editor, and I do think Sandy's concerns here are valid ones that are worth discussing. I've edited in good faith, but it's still quite possible I'm on the wrong side of this gray area. So why not talk to me directly and calmly (on this page or elsewhere), give examples, and make suggestions for improvement instead of posting a public shaming that condemns my work as a whole, treats all my attempts to discuss the issue as bad faith, and offers no constructive suggestions? I'm tired of admins who are more interested in "Gotcha" than in actually helping editors improve their work, and tired of a community that lets such people run the place.
Anyway, the debate goes on, but if people feel that my case turns out to be actionable, I'm willing to return for whatever RfC, AN/I, etc. you wish to convene so that I can apologize and accept responsibility and punishment for any mistakes I've made; just e-mail me through my page. Other than that, I'm out, yos.
Sandy, just to set your mind at ease, our only previous encounters were in the Great DYK Flame War of Summer '11 when you repeatedly accused everyone involved in DYK of lacking any decency. I asked you a few times on this page to take the hostility down a notch, to which you never responded.
Good luck to all still fighting the good fight to create new content for the wiki. I do sincerely apologize for my shortcomings as an editor that have caused this kerfuffle. It's been a pleasure working with all of you,
Khazar (
talk)
22:49, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
Regardless of how this case works out, I think it illustrates that we as a project need to be on the same page about how we handle close paraphrase when we find it. Can we all agree that the above method, where posts where made to the nom page, the author's page, WP:ERRORS, another editor's talk, and here, is not how these situations should be handled? This is the worst possible outcome out of many. The above author was ready and willing to discuss the issues at the nomination page, but was instead forced to defend his writing choices on a widely-watched noticeboard. To be blunt, this shouldn't happen like this again.
Interesting but unworkable suggestion; once a DYK goes to the mainpage, the nomination page is closed, the nominators frequently unwatch (and don't return to) the articles, and the nomination page has nothing to do with WP:ERRORS. Also, reporting problems on the nomination page doesn't get issues addressed at DYK, which is where they are occurring. A more workable solution for dealing with the recurring issues would be to put procedures in place at DYK that address the long-standing issues (which do not only involve copyvio/plagiarism/cut-and-paste, but also involve reliable sourcing, faulty hooks, unsourced hooks, and glaring prose errors) going on the mainpage. There have been many suggestions over the years, a bit of progress (at least we have a nomination page now and an archived record of the unabating problem), but no substantial change in the problem affecting the mainpage. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 11:30, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
If I may offer some general feedback, I strongly advocate trying to minimize shock and shame for people who may have issues with close paraphrasing, and wherever discussion may best take place do like the emphasis on neutral terminology. My own practice has generally evolved more and more in that direction over the years I've worked copyright issues on Wikipedia, as I've had plenty of opportunity to see what gets the best result. (In my opinion, the best result is good practice for writing free content and a happy, productive contributor. If we both walk away feeling good, then it's a "win" for Wikipedia. :)) I really like the way Choess succinctly describes the issues with close paraphrasing and especially the difference between that and copy-pasting from a "good faith" perspective. Besides my work on Wikipedia, I've taught college composition and know that the art of paraphrasing is a difficult one...and sometimes most difficult for the best students. Students are taught for most of their lives to accurately recount what they're given, but then suddenly required to do it in different language. This is a hard-won skill for many people. Most of the contributors I've found with close paraphrasing issues (though not all) can and will moderate their approach if issues are explained constructively. If people are inadvertently made to feel ashamed, it can sap both their motivation to contribute and their belief that they have something worthwhile to contribute, and that's a shame.
In terms of the poll below, unfortunately, best language approaches for the problem is also not always an inborn skill. :) Just as I've seen a lot of people with copyright issues in my four-whatever years of doing copyright work, I've seen a lot of people trying to address copyright issues, and they are also doing important work. I try when I can to encourage good practices with them in neutral terms that avoid shaming or demotivating them from keeping an eye out for issues. If you're going to add language to guide whistleblowers, for lack of a better term, I would really suggest adding concrete guidance, because I would swear that in even the most abrasive, accusatory confrontations I've seen (and I've seen some doozies), the contributor thought the language was appropriate to the situation.
I think we need to avoid here shaming people who fall at either end of the "close paraphrase" continuum - whether that's those who need to come towards the "stricter" side to meet community standards or those who are already too strict. Insofar as we possibly can, we must take the conversation out of the realm of emotion and keep it firmly grounded in reasoned conversation. :) -- Moonriddengirl (talk) 14:00, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
In practice, all decisions on what should be regarded plagiarism, and how bad it is (say, acceptable, must be rewritten, or so-so but should not be repeated, or etc.) are a matter of on-wiki consensus. However, this is just a part of a more general issue of phrasing concerns with a DYK nom. Such concerns have bordered the line of direct accusation way too often in the past. Thus my suggestion is as follows: whoever is the whistleblower, he/she must follow the line "not guilty until decided so by consensus" and use an appropriate language. I believe this is part of the unspoken wikipedia civility code and therefore suggest a poll on that
I believe the consensus for this would be decided at WP:CIVIL or WP:COPYVIO, not here. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 11:32, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Please help with checking in the Contributor copyright investigation, The alleged PumpkinSky copyvio, 28 articles (of 729 touched) need to be checked. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 10:06, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Finished! -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 15:40, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
I'm sorry I'm late to this discussion (my house's internet is being all finicky lately); I was the one who originally reviewed Musa Muradov, so I figure I should at least say something in this discussion. I received the following message from User:SandyGeorgia yesterday: "Structure of almost the entire article copied from one source, removed from the mainpage". I feel that this is an egregious broach of WP:AGF, as I had obviously reviewed the exact same article and come to a completely different conclusion. A much better way of wording this would be, "The article Musa Muradov has come under scrutiny for being too closely paraphrased to the original article and has been removed from the queue. Could you comment on the discussion as the original reviewer?" Also, instead of "Plagiarism Dispatch", why not name this section "Possible Paraphrasing Issue?" I think it's obvious that there was no intention to copy the original source verbatim, and plagiarism has a negative connotation to it which implies exactly that.
With regards to whether or not this is paraphrased too closely, I stand by my original assessment. The article is in an encyclopedic form in its chronological order and I see no way of rearranging the fact of his life to avoid minor paraphrasing (the re-write examples shown up top are actually quite impressively done). It is all cited in-line with proper references (without such, it would actually be plagiarism and I would have duly reported it). It meets the DYK criteria otherwise, and I found the hook to be insightful and interesting. If there is consensus to reverse my original decision, I understand, but I feel I should make my opinion known. Nomader ( talk) 17:43, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Hi, can I get the opinion of an image copyright expert on Template:Did you know nominations/Edin Osmanović? The nominator apparently knows the subject of the article personally and claims to be a photographer. Should I just assume good faith in that case? Thanks! — Toдor Boжinov — 11:04, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
Could some admin, assuming they agree with me, make the following changes please?
The Prep 3 Cuyopsis hook "that shells of the extinct Argentinian bivalve Cuyopsis are symmetrical enough to be named for it?" left me scratching my head: the final "it" seems to me to be referring back to the Cuyopsis shells, so I was left to conclude that, somehow, symmetry is related to Cuyopsis in some mysterious, indirect fashion. In fact, the article says the genus Cuyopsis was named for the region; it's the species name Cuyopsis symmetricus that comes from those symmetrical shells.
I have edited the hook accordingly, with the added "rectangular" description (from the article's mention that these shells were "rectangular in outline") to add interest—not a typical shape—while still keeping the symmetry. I mention this here so that if I've gone astray, corrections can be made before it's too late:
Hope it works! BlueMoonset ( talk) 14:44, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
As Lihaas has pointed out on Orlady's talk page, the Queue 6 entry (from the template National Movement for the Liberation of Azawa) has problems that need addressing.
The hook in the queue (number five of six) is currently as follows:
While the suggestion there is to add a parenthetical element—instead of "for the defeated government", change it to "(mostly for the defeated government)"—I'm not sure "mostly" is justified either, and I feel that parentheses should be avoided in DYK entries. My suggestion, for a variety of reasons, is instead to use the sourced allAfrica characterization (ref 4) and make the sole change the addition of the word "many" before "Tuareg":
I was curious to note that the QPQ requirement is only applied to self nominations, and not nominations by a separate party. Is there a reason that they are not included in the requirement?-- Kev min § 09:51, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
In my first double article nomination, Template:Did you know nominations/Jordy Mercer, Matt Hague, the reviewer said I only needed to have performed one QPQ review rather than two. Is that the case? I have a nomination up right now with ten articles and I've so far performed six reviews for it. I don't have a problem doing four more, but I am curious about the distinctions regarding multiple articles in a nomination. – Muboshgu ( talk) 23:54, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
I think I was always told multiple expansions in a single nomination are treated as one nomination and require one. (And when I did a multiple nomination recently, some one commented I should have reviewed two, but some one else commented to say no.) It doesn't particularly fuss me either way, but helpful to know when nominating. (I'll take the additional review count for having done that one if it does.;) -- LauraHale ( talk) 03:41, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
This is on the main page now. I checked it earlier, but could not log on because I was on a hand held (and can only rarely log on successfully from it). The hook fact can be cited (I've found a ref for it) and I'm about to take care of it, but I just wanted to state that it is not there now. This should have been taken care of in the review stage or while it was in prep, no? Marrante ( talk) 13:28, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
I've designed a template that can be dropped on a user talk page, accepting an article name as a parameter, thanking the editor for his new article and suggesting they nominate it for a DYK. Feel free to tweak it directly, and if you like it, we could consider mainspacing it and/or linking it from one of official DYK pages. The current use for syntax is {{subst:User:Piotrus/TDYK|ArticleName}} . -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me 20:28, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
In less than two hours Did you know will need to be updated, however the next queue either has no hooks or has not been approved by an administrator. It would be much appreciated if an administrator would take the time to ensure that DYK is updated on time by following these instructions:
Then, when the time is right I will be able to update the template. Thanks and have a good day, DYKUpdateBot ( talk) 22:05, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
I cannot determine from reading:
what the consensus was on that, and don't know if that consensus has since changed. I had encountered that before, but the recent mainpage
leads to my question. The Jennifer Worth nomination was presented initially with paraphrasing issues (subsequently cleaned up by others), but nonetheless went on the mainpage with text sourced to personal blogs, which was generally trivia. I'm unaware of how to check if the word count was met with the blog-sourced trivia removed, but I'm also unclear on what happened to Wilhelmina Will's topic ban proposal based on these same issues years ago (I was aware that Blechnic left Wikipedia after being one of the first to raise these concerns). Could someone who knows the history explain the consensus on Wilhelmina Will's proposed topic ban? SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 15:51, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
In the fourth hook of Queue 5 (for Similodonta), "in" should be removed or moved between "down" and "a". MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 20:23, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
An approved hook needs to get to the Main Page by the 26th for an editor to advance in the WikiCup. Any help for them? BCS (Talk) 21:11, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
Would it be out of line for me to politely request that an approved hook of mine, Template:Did you know nominations/List of Connecticut Huskies in the WNBA Draft, also be placed in queue by the 26th? :-) I also need this promoted to advance in the cup. – Grondemar 02:56, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
Would Sir Francis Verney be eligible for this page? I think there are several facts which would make interesting hooks. 71.184.38.227 ( talk) 22:29, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
I tried following the directions to submit the article but I can't create the subpage. I entered the name of the article but I couldn't fill out the form. The save/preview buttons were also missing. I was going to post it directly to "Template talk:Did you know" but when I edit the main page it tells me to create a subpage. 71.184.38.227 ( talk) 15:19, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
So would someone else have to create the subpage or do I just copy the form to the main page? 71.184.38.227 ( talk) 00:51, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
Alright, here's a few that stand out:
71.184.38.227 ( talk) 05:43, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
I've created the template for you: Template:Did you know nominations/Francis Verney. Someone will review it in time, so be sure to respond to any comments they may have. – Muboshgu ( talk) 00:32, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
Would somebody here be so kind as to take a look at User talk:HJ#Beebuk and see if everything;s in order with the nomination the editor is enquiring about—I'm not familiar with the new nomination system (even though it's not that new any more!). Thanks, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:35, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
In prep area 4 there is an entry which reads:
I think the use of "began" in this sentence is what they call a dangling modifier. Anyway, the sentence can be read in two completely logical ways with very different meanings:
In less than two hours Did you know will need to be updated, however the next queue either has no hooks or has not been approved by an administrator. It would be much appreciated if an administrator would take the time to ensure that DYK is updated on time by following these instructions:
Then, when the time is right I will be able to update the template. Thanks and have a good day, DYKUpdateBot ( talk) 06:06, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
3 out of 6 hooks in this batch are sports related: an imbalance that should be addressed. Kevin McE ( talk) 11:36, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
Please can an administrator change the hook on Zennor Head (in queue 1) back to the one it was promoted with, i.e "that Zennor Head, Cornwall, is the largest coastal feature in the United Kingdom that begins with the letter "Z"?" rather than the new one it has been changed to. It was changed by an editor who did not believe the book it was referenced from was a reliable source, because of a humorous comment made by the author in the introduction, but I have explained that the joke (see my edit summary on the history) about subjective opinion only related to the 4/6 picturesque rating, rather than facts in general, and an exhaustive examination of the OS maps of Britain have supported the hook as true. Thanks -- Gilderien Talk| Contribs 14:46, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
i.e.
here, change
{{*mp}}... that French general [[Hubert Lyautey]] ''(pictured)'' described his defensive tactics in the '''[[Zaian War]]''' as analogous to hollowing out a lobster?
{{*mp}}... that in 1936, '''[[Mahmoud (horse)|Mahmoud]]''' set a course record at [[Epsom Downs Racecourse|Epsom]] and became the third of four [[Gray (horse)|grey]] racehorses to ever win the [[Epsom Derby|Derby Stakes]]?
{{*mp}}... that actor [[John Abraham (actor)|John Abraham]]'s first production '''''[[Vicky Donor]]''''' deals with the concept of [[sperm donation]]?
{{*mp}} ... that in the '''[[1991 PBA First Conference Finals]]''', [[Barangay Ginebra Kings|Ginebra San Miguel]] became the first team in [[Philippine Basketball Association]] history to win a championship series coming from a 1-3 deficit?
{{*mp}}... that the plot of the [[adventure game]] '''''[[Undercover: Operation Wintersun]]''''' focuses on a nuclear physicist trying to destroy [[Nazi Germany|Nazi German]] prototype [[nuclear weapon]]s during [[World War II]]?
{{*mp}}... that '''[[Zennor Head]]''', [[Cornwall]], is named after a woman who was reputedly washed up there after being thrown into the sea in a barrel by her husband?
to
{{*mp}}... that French general [[Hubert Lyautey]] ''(pictured)'' described his defensive tactics in the '''[[Zaian War]]''' as analogous to hollowing out a lobster?
{{*mp}}... that in 1936, '''[[Mahmoud (horse)|Mahmoud]]''' set a course record at [[Epsom Downs Racecourse|Epsom]] and became the third of four [[Gray (horse)|grey]] racehorses to ever win the [[Epsom Derby|Derby Stakes]]?
{{*mp}}... that actor [[John Abraham (actor)|John Abraham]]'s first production '''''[[Vicky Donor]]''''' deals with the concept of [[sperm donation]]?
{{*mp}} ... that in the '''[[1991 PBA First Conference Finals]]''', [[Barangay Ginebra Kings|Ginebra San Miguel]] became the first team in [[Philippine Basketball Association]] history to win a championship series coming from a 1-3 deficit?
{{*mp}}... that the plot of the [[adventure game]] '''''[[Undercover: Operation Wintersun]]''''' focuses on a nuclear physicist trying to destroy [[Nazi Germany|Nazi German]] prototype [[nuclear weapon]]s during [[World War II]]?
{{*mp}}... that '''[[Zennor Head]]''', [[Cornwall]], is the largest [[coastal feature]] in the [[United Kingdom]] that begins with the letter "Z"?
(the original succesful nomination is
here)
Thanks --
Gilderien
Talk|
Contribs
15:04, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
Is there any objective way of measuring the size of a coastal feature? Where does it start and finish. And an editor looking at OS maps can only be OR. By what criteria is the author of this book authoritative or reliable? Light-hearted books carry all sorts of statements that cannot be considered to have been enyclopaedically verified. Kevin McE ( talk) 15:59, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
... a proposal to signal aliens by drawing a massive representation At least in UK English, it is usual to signal to somebody. Signal also seems to suggest a more active mode of communication than simply putting something on the ground and passively waiting to see if someone/thing happens to notice it. Kevin McE ( talk) 16:19, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
Inconsistent to compare the "actor" Brigitte to the character Eddie. Either compare Stella to Eddie, or Brigitte to Moose. Kevin McE ( talk) 16:27, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
... that composer Graham Waterhouse played Chinese whispers in Chinese Whispers? Simply untrue. One cannot play the game without several people each using their voice to pass on a verbal message. The game influenced/inspired the composition: the game is not played during performance of the composition. Needs to be sent back for a re-write. Kevin McE ( talk) 11:18, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
Interested parties may wish to contribute here. Kevin McE ( talk) 14:12, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
In less than two hours Did you know will need to be updated, however the next queue either has no hooks or has not been approved by an administrator. It would be much appreciated if an administrator would take the time to ensure that DYK is updated on time by following these instructions:
Then, when the time is right I will be able to update the template. Thanks and have a good day, DYKUpdateBot ( talk) 22:05, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
If it isn't a bother, could somebody perform reviews on the noms for Bay Darnell and John King (racing driver)? The creator of the first article requested that it run on DYK if possible with the Daytona 500, which didn't happen - but the race has been pushed back to tomorrow (noon GMT+5) by rain, and the latter would fit well with it as well, so if it's possible to get these up tomorrow mid-day New York time, that would be awesome. If not though, no worries! - The Bushranger One ping only 23:33, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
There appear to be two unreviewed articles from the second hook of Prep 3. Due to template limitations, only eight of the ten articles appear in the section heading and only those eight have "article history links" on the nomination page. The review specifically says that eight articles were reviewed. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 00:59, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
In less than two hours Did you know will need to be updated, however the next queue either has no hooks or has not been approved by an administrator. It would be much appreciated if an administrator would take the time to ensure that DYK is updated on time by following these instructions:
Then, when the time is right I will be able to update the template. Thanks and have a good day, DYKUpdateBot ( talk) 06:05, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
The reason: all the queues are empty. Is there an admin who can help please? — Bruce1ee talk 10:15, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
The Scroogle hook on the main page was recently removed [9], leaving five hooks in the set. There was no discussion for removal of the hook, admin issue. Froggerlaura ( talk) 19:41, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
No response after 24 hours from Dragonfly. Should we just go ahead and put the hook back into prep? Silver seren C 22:18, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
So, let's go with one of the alternate hooks then to make everyone happy. I like the first one. Silver seren C 23:14, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
I started a DYK nomination yesterday for Cash mob, which you can find here. User:What a pro. reviewed it, but didn't pass it because he said that the hook has to explain what a cash mob is. I disagree with this. The requirement for hooks is that they are directly cited in the article and are interesting. There's nothing in the rules that say they have to define the subject. I thought those were the dry sort of hooks that we were trying to avoid? I left a message on What a pro's talk page 19 hours ago, but there's been no response so far. Silver seren C 03:36, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
Hello. Please note that there's an alternative version that was approved by The Bushranger for Template:Did you know nominations/Aeroflot accidents and incidents in the 1980s, different from the one used here. Cheers.-- Jetstreamer ( talk) 12:40, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
In what way was the act of remixing exclusive? Sounds like promotional hyperbole of no real meaning. He didn't remix those tracks for any other album? Only Chew Fu remixed them? And what is an electronic record producer? A producer of electronic music (a genre description so wide that it would include anything from Kraftwerk to Drop the Lime, or a music producer who uses electronics (an even more generalised description)? Kevin McE ( talk) 18:06, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
I've just reviewed
Template:Did you know nominations/Milan Area C, and everything in it seems alright to me. However, the article's history shows that it was eligible for DYK by January 17, although it wasn't until February 17 that the nomination was created. It's a southern European traffic law article and to me that seems uncommon enough to consider invoking
WP:IAR to stick it up there anyway (since I'm pretty sure 5 days isn't a hard and fast rule anyway). Would anyone mind if I changed my verdict on this and signed off on it as okay to run?
GRAPPLE
X
21:35, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
Hello, I'm asking this question because I'm really confused over an important issue. I searched the archive and found nudity/sexuality-related articles in Main Page cause a lot of controversy (as can be seen from the discussions ( here, here, ( here, here). This is why I withdrew the nomination of recently expanded article about a nudist festival Nudes-A-Poppin'. Here is the archived discussion. Please provide a brief input on this issue, especially whether Nudes-A-Poppin' was suitable for DYK. I found articles like Nude wedding and More Demi Moore were featured in the DYK. And there is an article about a film waiting to be featured with this image. The problem is that since we do not have any clear-cut policy regarding nudity/sexuality-related material on the Main Page, it become very difficult to identify which article is suitable for the Main Page, and which not. Although Wikipedia is not censored, nudity-related article are generally restricted from being featured in the Main Page from common sense ground ( Wikipedia:Ignore all rules), as I can see from the previous discussions. This is very reasonable if the article does not have encyclopedic value. I think we need a policy regarding this matter. Thanks! -- SupernovaExplosion Talk 01:40, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
Can someone help? Monmouth Cap has been patiently waiting to appear on March 1st since January. Its an article designed to run on St David's day. Nikkimania had a concern which has been addressed twice. However the clock is ticking. Can someone fly in, check that the concern has been addressed and if so move it to the St Davids day queue There are still good slots available. Thanks for listening - hope you can spare the time Victuallers ( talk) 10:00, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
Could I also ask for some eyes at the articles Morgraig Castle and Cardiff town walls? Both were pulled from prep by Nikkimaria and were originally to run on 1 March, and User:Seth Whales, the creator, hasn't edited since 26 February. The close paraphrasing concerns are detailed at the nomination pages: here and here. Judging by Nikkimaria's comments, the latter may be a more serious case. It would be nice if the issue could be resolved and those two run on St David's Day after all. Yngvadottir ( talk) 15:35, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
This nomination, Template:Did you know nominations/List of Sturgeon class submarines, was originally put into a prep area on February 25, but was pulled in order to gain an image, and thus be eligible for the top slot. This required an image review, and I pitched in to do it, even though I wasn't the original reviewer, since said reviewer had already signed off on the nomination.
It seems a shame for the nomination not to have a shot at the top slot under the circumstances. If people think it isn't appropriate for it, I can understand, but I'm not sure it's been considered in that light. Given that this is in the next prep area due to be moved to a queue, even if only four slots are filled at the moment, I thought I ought to draw attention to it before it's too late. Thanks.
BTW, the prep area currently has seven slots, while all the queues and other prep areas are still at six slots. Whoever finishes off the prep area should fix this, regardless of what is done with the nomination. BlueMoonset ( talk) 03:29, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
I shifted three to the queues and started loading prep 3 - but have other things that need doing. Anyone is welcome to keep loading. Casliber ( talk · contribs) 12:32, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
In both Queue 5 and Queue 6 we have hooks using a nickname for the Australian women's water polo team that is unlikely to be known by many outside the spectator base of that relatively low profile sport. I would argue that this is tantamount to insider jargon, and fails to inform the reader. Kevin McE ( talk) 20:02, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
Charles Cruft (showman) was supposed to for March 11, but was mistakenly moved to prep. I thought it said in the special occasion holding area that only an admin could move it there, so I did not.-- Ishtar456 ( talk) 13:05, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
The nominator has requested on my talk page that the Charles Cruft hook be held for 8 March. As the set was promoted within 30 minutes of me finishing it, I can't touch the hook now. Anyone? Crisco 1492 ( talk) 13:09, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
Thanks.-- Ishtar456 ( talk) 13:39, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
Revolt_(network), El_Rey_(network) and Aspire_(network), which share a hook currently in Prep 4, also share a nearly identical paragraph, without which at least two (and possibly the third) would be too short to be eligible. I had thought repeating content in this way was not allowed? Nikkimaria ( talk) 23:06, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
I have just loaded three hooks into Prep3. Would someone like to check to see if I have done it correctly as this is my first attempt at doing it. Cwmhiraeth ( talk) 10:21, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
There seems to be no evident reason why we are displaying wolfram rather than the IUPAC name of the element, and home of the article linked, tungsten. Kevin McE ( talk) 18:52, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
This talk page seems to have two very different purposes:
Would it be sensible for the queues to have their own talk page, which could be transcluded here, as wp:errors is transcluded onto Talk:Main Page? Kevin McE ( talk) 19:12, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
The hook on this item is simply not accurate. It seems to be criticizing actor Paul Dooley for a preposterous portrayal, when the reviewer, VanDerWerff, is criticizing the character, Joe Bangs, who goes from horrifying to preposterous in that episode. This hook either needs a major overhaul, or a completely new version. I can't come up with anything on the fly; if no one else can, the nomination should be withdrawn until a new hook can be crafted and approved. BlueMoonset ( talk) 20:04, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
I had a similar problem. When I submitted my edit, someone else's edit appeared, but mine did not. The usual "edit conflict" warning did not appear.-- Ishtar456 ( talk) 03:40, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Second to last hook, "Battle of Copenhagen," is missing its "that." Yngvadottir ( talk) 22:16, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi,
I recently came back to wikipedia after a long absence and am overwhelmed by the length of, and back log on
Template talk:Did you know. I have come up with a some suggestions for how to clean up that page. <s>1. Either put the directions for "how to nom" and "how to review" on separate, '''clearly linked''', pages. Or collapse them, the way the contents can be collapsed. 2. There should be a time limit to how long a nom has to fix issues with the article. I see several lengthy discussions about articles with multiple issues, mostly plagiarism, POV and citations. I think there should be a point where some says "This does not pass, case closed". But it seems like a lot of time is spent on poor nominations and they just sit there forever until someone finally fixes the problem. Is there a rule that says that every nomination eventually passes? It seems to me that a lot of perfectly good nomination are being delayed because of all the effort put into problematic articles. <s>3. I have also noticed that noms, fulling the requirement to review other articles, often make one comment and then don't follow up after the problem is fixed. I think that they should be told they have to see the review to the end. I think once someone takes on the review they should see it through, unless there is a need for a second opinion or mediation. Just some thoughts.--
Ishtar456 (
talk)
01:06, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
If you see a review where a person has responded to feedback and the original reviewer has not come back to address it, just give the reviewer a ping. Sometimes, we review and there are issues and it takes a day or two to get fixed and it is easy to miss them on your watch list. I really like the how to review instructions above the page as it makes it much, much easier to review because the guidelines are right there. -- LauraHale ( talk) 02:29, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
There is also the red bendy arrow symbol that can be added to attract attention to a nomination that needs to be looked at again. (A very good idea, recently implemented.) Yngvadottir ( talk) 05:17, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 75 | Archive 76 | Archive 77 | Archive 78 | Archive 79 | Archive 80 | → | Archive 85 |
There are four queues filled, plus 222 noms on the noms page, including 50 that are approved. Do you suppose we are ready to quicken the pace? Seven hooks per queue would take us from 18 to 21 hooks per day -- that would be a small step that we should be able to handle... -- Orlady ( talk) 02:28, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
A few weeks ago, we had a brief discussion concerning the use of PD text in DYK submissions. I think it clear from that discussion that a consensus emerged that some PD text was acceptable in DYK submissions, but no consensus was reached as to precisely how much. In spite of this, SandyGeorgia reverted my restoration of the longstanding consensus version which reflected prevailing consensus, back to a version which clearly does not in that it effectively prohibits the use of any PD text. Having restored the longstanding consensus version a few minutes ago, Sandy has now immediately reverted back to her preferred version. [1]
There have been two recent discussions about this issue, here and here. The following summarizes what most other users have said about this issue:
AFAICT there were only two users who were opposed to any use of PD text in DYK submissions - SandyGeorgia and Nikkimaria. In these circumstances, it should be clear that the longstanding consensus version, which includes the crucial caveat "Try to" is the version which still has consensus. I am therefore reverting Sandy's edit. Gatoclass ( talk) 05:24, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
This issue needs resolution, so based on the above discussion, I am proposing that we formally adopt Materialscientist's suggestion that text copied from PD sources be dealt with by excluding it from the minimum text count.
The proposal is well intended, but I have reservations about whether it will be implemented in an environment of quid pro quo reviewing, and where there is no oversight of reviews. Here is the latest faulty hook reported at WP:ERRORS [2]-- showing a lack of rigour in review: Template:Did you know nominations/Phoenix United Mine. The hook appears faulty. Beating the dead horse once again that some sort of accountability at the level where hooks are passed to the mainpage would behoove this process. (See the quid pro quo review by the nominator with the faulty hook at Template:Did you know nominations/St Mary's Roman Catholic Church, Monmouth). SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 15:36, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
The hook for Frédéric Banquet, currently in Prep 2, is too long to attract attention, IMO. (It reads "...that rugby player Frédéric Banquet scored the first ever try in Super League history when he scored for Paris Saint-Germain against the Sheffield Eagles at Charlety Stadium on 29 March 1996?") I don't think that most of that detail adds any interest, but I can imagine that rugby fans might disagree. Would there be anything wrong with trimming it to "...that rugby player Frédéric Banquet scored the first ever try in Super League history?"?? -- Orlady ( talk) 04:32, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Ocak Işık Yurtçu was moved to a new spelling while on the main page. Can someone tweak the spelling of the main page accordingly? Thanks! Khazar ( talk) 18:20, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
I just reviewed my first double nomination. Does the proposed hook need to be present in both articles, or can it be present in only one? – Muboshgu ( talk) 20:32, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
I've been trying to close Template:Did you know nominations/eRulemaking but adding no to the passed= line breaks the template. Is it me or is the template itself broken? Prioryman ( talk) 21:52, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
Hi, I moved the page for this article but can't figure out how to update the nomination template. Please see the red link under Articles created/expanded on January 21. Thanks, Yoninah ( talk) 00:15, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
The fourth (Vashon High School) and fifth (Ibiranu) items have been accidentally combined into a single DYK. It would be great if someone could separate them. Thanks! BlueMoonset ( talk) 01:37, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
The sixth (earthquakes) item: shouldn't the final word, 'patches', be in double quotes rather than single quotes? Since it's an article about American earthquakes, I believe "patches" would be more appropriate punctuation. (Sorry I didn't notice this earlier.) BlueMoonset ( talk) 02:04, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
In the fifth hook, "fifty-seventh" and "second" have been changed to "57th" and "2nd" with a citation of "WP:ORDINAL".
As I pointed out in the review of that particular hook,
If DYK is one of those places, like infoboxes, where the numbers get preference over the words, then I'm fine with it, even if WP:ORDINAL doesn't mention DYK by name. But if it's just "WP:ORDINAL" that's being cited, my feeling is that you want the consistency of both words or both numbers. I frankly think "2nd" looks silly which is part of why I prefer words here. BlueMoonset ( talk) 06:32, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
A heads-up to the regulars here: The hook from Template:Did you know nominations/Bozeman Carnegie Library got pulled off the main page a few hours ago (after being there less than 2 hours) due to copyright concerns. The hook set is now off the main page; this hook was not restored or replaced. The only discussion of the issue seems to be at Wikipedia talk:Contributor copyright investigations#Just pulled_Bozeman Carnegie Library from the main page -- input, please?. The issue identified is best described as a borderline case of WP:close paraphrasing. -- Orlady ( talk) 17:35, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
Well, considering the allegations that PumpkinSky is Rlevse, methinks the problem might be in here, that you need better scrutiny towards copyvio, and you all might want to revisit consensus on any decisions that were made in the last month in which he participated. [4] SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 20:02, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
OK, I admit ... it really bugs me that we had our suspicions over at FAC, knew something was amiss, but from reviewing the archives here, nothing changed from 2010-- y'all let him waltz right back in here, take up where he left off (promoting and defending copyvio) and didn't even wonder. For gosh sakes, this was his hangout-- could y'all keep a closer eye in the future? SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 21:44, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
The discussion mentioned above is now on Talk:PumpkinSky, -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 19:44, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
I started out reviewing Template:Did you know nominations/Sisingamangaraja XII but ended up making many changes to the article myself. Could someone else please take over completing the review, since as I'm effectively now a co-author it wouldn't be appropriate for me to do so? Prioryman ( talk) 08:07, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
I see two quirky hooks in Prep 1, do we have too many of those? -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 11:15, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Would José Manuel Martín be ok to add to the DYK page? I went through the article and picked out these facts.
Martín's IMDB profile lists his appearances at a total of 113. Since the site isn't a reliable source, and I can't find another reference which specifically claims this number, would I need to cite each individual film for the first hook to pass? For the third hook, I cited his appearances in the "twilight" Spaghetti Westerns, specifically Amigo, Stay Away, though the source doesn't specifically say he played a peddler. Would I have to cite the actual film and the timecode for his cameo? I believe it's been in the public domain since 1992 but I could be wrong. 72.74.199.46 ( talk) 12:57, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
I was wondering whether the boilerplate instructions under each day's header on the nominations page should be updated, at least going forward. They currently read:
In particular, I think the "e.g." should use the new-style "Template:Did you know nominations/YOUR ARTICLE TITLE" format, and while that's being changed, the final two closing braces should be changed to a single closing paren. That would give:
I would also add a period at the end—"section (after this comment)."—but that's comparatively unimportant and there may be reasons not to.
One reason I'm suggesting this is that I think people are hand-deleting "Template:" from the version that's displayed for them to copy on their template creations page in order to match the example, when it's unnecessary for them to do so. I seem to remember doing just that hand-deletion on an early nomination of mine, before I had a better understanding of how the process worked. BlueMoonset ( talk) 15:47, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Question: The source upon which the hook is based, and upon which much of the page is based, was a newspaper article that the page creator accessed online a week after it was posted. Two weeks later, the article was already dropped from the newspaper's website. Can I go ahead and accept the nom AGF? Thanks, Yoninah ( talk) 22:56, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Hello. Is this the place to discuss contested hooks? I've tried contacting User:PKM with no response, probably due to the time zone difference. I'm hoping someone can help me out here. Basically, PKM has rejected my hook because she says it requires a fivefold expansion. However, this is not the case. In the comments section, I made a note that this was moved from user space within the five day nomination period. Per the rules, this is a new article that is eligible due to its initial (and current) character count. I think PKM missed the note and assumed it was an older article, which would make it subject to the fivefold expansion rule. Could someone take a look? Thanks. I'm currently reviewing Xinye Village. Viriditas ( talk) 00:29, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
Not sure what happened here: [5] Also, text contains verbatim text from a source without quotes. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 18:59, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Hello folks, I've reviewed and commented on Template:Did you know nominations/The Adventures of Abney & Teal, but not signed off on the nomination due to (what I see as) a lack of secondary sourcing, which is not strictly a DYK issue from what I can see, but in this current climate I would like someone familiar with reviewing to offer some guidance. Thank you. Someone another 20:42, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Eh, help? I've been working on Template:Did you know nominations/2000 UEFA Cup Final riots. I've had to do a lot of rewriting--for style, grammar, agreement with sources, etc--and just finished rewriting the hook. I need someone to help me out here, since I'm tired of the article and the subject matter. a. Someone please check the hook for length and tone and et cetera. b. Please also proofread the article and tweak where necessary (nominator isn't god's gift to writing, and neither am I; plus, I don't care for the topic). c. Please check the numbers: there are a lot of newspaper reports citing injuries and arrests, and I am not sure that the content in the article properly reflects what the sources give (mind you, such reports may change quickly from one day to the other--fortunately, they're all in very reliable sources).
Thank you so much! Drmies ( talk) 16:17, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
In the fourth hook of Queue 5, "an organ taken off a cadaver" looks very odd to me. I think "an organ taken from a cadaver" is better. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 21:31, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
That plagiarism and close paraphrasing is being discussed in this forum is because DYK performs a useful function in Wikipedia as it places new or enlarged articles under scrutiny. If I were to knowingly write a dodgy article, I would not nominate it for DYK. I have sympathy for Khazar, whose original article sparked this discussion because, in my view, Musa Muradov did not infringe policy. It seems a great pity that Khazar has been driven away by other peoples' attitudes and that the close paraphrasing issue has been taken to such extremes.
Detecting close paraphrasing is difficult and most reviewers of articles are nominators of other articles that they themselves have written. They are not necessarily the best people to take decisions on close paraphrasing and may spend no more time on their review than is necessary. When I have reviewed an article positively and later get a talk page message telling me of problems that I have missed, I find it discouraging. Cwmhiraeth ( talk) 12:00, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
the hook needs to say "at least ten" and the link re-directed to 1-Lysophosphatidylcholine. -- 70.31.8.76 ( talk) 12:36, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
In less than two hours Did you know will need to be updated, however the next queue either has no hooks or has not been approved by an administrator. It would be much appreciated if an administrator would take the time to ensure that DYK is updated on time by following these instructions:
Then, when the time is right I will be able to update the template. Thanks and have a good day, DYKUpdateBot ( talk) 22:07, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
The reviewer has requested a second opinion regarding article neutrality (disclosure: this is one of my co-nominations) Crisco 1492 ( talk) 23:14, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
I've been thinking about this issue for quite a while. I think it warrants further discussion.
At first I pondered opening a CCI on myself--I cannot guarantee that I never produced a WP text in a way that the original structure is still visible, and if I had the time and commitment I would find such similarities in articles up to FA. I am not even sure to possess the language capabilities to always re-tell a story in entirely different vocabulary and structure; as non-native writer I have only so many possibilities to rephrase.
Neither am I a lawyer. Where I come from copyright violation entails a certain level of creativity on the side of the original source, we call that threshold of originality. A standard eulogy for a prize-giving does not generally reach this threshold and can therefore not be the basis of a copyright claim. (It might be different in the US.) Similarly, plagiarism of a standard text has to be blatant in order to be called that way, even more so if it is only the structure that is thought to be stolen.
To base a plagiarism claim solely on the structure of the original, this structure must be unquestionably unique, outstanding, and recognisable. A standard obituary, short biography, or description of events cannot be the basis of such claim. I would therefore be hesitant to introduce a new charge, "structure plagiarism", for DYK contributors, as it seems to have happened de facto with SG's post above.
Regarding the specific example I agree it is too close to the original. But this is based on what MRG calls a blend of copied expression and duplicated structure. There are still too many similarities in the text which alone raise concerns. For instance, "Muradov himself was trapped in a basement" occurs in both original and copy, and at least the strange "himself" should have been reworded.
MRG makes more valid remarks up here which do not seem to have had much impact on the discussion. This is a pity because she's clearly literate in this topic. Her linked off-wiki essay, for instance, makes clear that a judge can decide only the clearest cases, and that everywhere else a jury is required. Now, SG should certainly not be the judge. As part of a larger jury (the readers of this page) she should maybe open up to opinions of her fellows or stand to be outvoted; I observe that not everyone passed the same judgment on the Musa Muradov article.
Sorry for the long post, I really feel this has not been discussed at the appropriate depth and detail. -- Pgallert ( talk) 19:48, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
In less than two hours Did you know will need to be updated, however the next queue either has no hooks or has not been approved by an administrator. It would be much appreciated if an administrator would take the time to ensure that DYK is updated on time by following these instructions:
Then, when the time is right I will be able to update the template. Thanks and have a good day, DYKUpdateBot ( talk) 23:44, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Some additional nomination reviews also would help move the process along. When we have a lot of reviewed hooks about a few very similar topics (be that topic baseball players, English illustrators, horses that won the Derby, fossil insects, biographies of historical politicians, or old buildings), it's hard to create a balanced set of hooks. -- Orlady ( talk) 18:34, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
Looks like I was just a minute or two too late with my corrections to prep area 1; someone will have to fix them in Queue 3 in the next seven hours.
Thanks! BlueMoonset ( talk) 16:49, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
I would frankly like to see an independent reviewer be the one to approve Template:Did you know nominations/Coimbatore bypass for inclusion here. Nikkimaria raised "phrasings and structures" concerns with a source, and the reviewing editor, Ansumang, first helped with the edits designed to alleviate the problem, and then gave the nomination a new clean bill of health.
What bothered me was that instead of someone not involved with the review closing it and moving it to a prep area, Ansumang both closed it and inserted the nominated hook into Prep 4. This strikes me as a clear conflict of interest: isn't there supposed to be someone completely unaffiliated with the nomination who makes the final determination as to whether it's ready to be included, and that person the one who moves it to a prep area? (If not, it seems to me a significant break: each step in the process should allow for a fresh pair of eyes to spot potential problems.) The article could be perfectly fine, or it could still need more work. Since it's currently in the next prep area that will move into the queues and can be expected to hit the front page within a day, I thought it would be best to mention this now. BlueMoonset ( talk) 03:51, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
User:DYKUpdateBot didn't post any notices on people's talk pages for the most recent DYK update. SmartSE ( talk) 13:49, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
Could someone take the time to review Template:Did you know nominations/Richard Elihu Sloan. As noted in the nomination's comments this hook is meant for the Centennial of Arizona Statehood (February 14) and it would be nice to be able to move it to the Special occasions holding area before the anniversary is over. -- Allen3 talk 18:20, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
I think Joseph Henry Kibbey may have been forgotten. He's been sitting in the special occasions area waiting for February 14th. Yngvadottir ( talk) 21:25, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
Can someone be so nice as to review this nom soon so that we can put the hook on prep/queue for Valentine's Day, please? Thanks. -- PFHLai ( talk) 22:07, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
Copied from above ( #Template:Did you know nominations/Zainal Mustafa) The reviewer at Template:Did you know nominations/Zainal Mustafa has requested a second opinion regarding article neutrality (disclosure: this is one of my co-nominations) Crisco 1492 ( talk) 23:14, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
Someone experienced please look at Template:Did you know nominations/Animal Justice Party. Some technical problem happened there, but I can't figure out. -- SupernovaExplosion ( talk) 08:34, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
Is this a good hook to save for March 8th? -- PFHLai ( talk) 20:03, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
I failed Template:Did you know nominations/Lourdes Central School, Mangalore because of major problems. The nominator is still frequently editing after I posted a message on his talk page so it seems like the editor isn't interested. I thought that maybe someone might want to help the nomination. SL93 ( talk) 21:34, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
Quick question -- is there a simple way to promote a hook, some template which you can put on the nom page of a hook to put the whole light green background on it? I have been straight copying what other editors do when they promote a hook, but is there a simpler way?
Thanks! Lord Roem ( talk) 03:42, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
In less than two hours Did you know will need to be updated, however the next queue either has no hooks or has not been approved by an administrator. It would be much appreciated if an administrator would take the time to ensure that DYK is updated on time by following these instructions:
Then, when the time is right I will be able to update the template. Thanks and have a good day, DYKUpdateBot ( talk) 22:05, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
Should we be reducing to six slots on all prep areas going forward until there's a better supply of completed DYK noms, or does the seventh slot need to be restored here. We seem to be running low on supply for the prep areas, though not on total nominations. BlueMoonset ( talk) 21:37, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
The hook for Zeckendorf Towers currently reads "[DYK …] that the outdoor space of Zeckendorf Towers make up the largest residential green roof in New York?" Should that be "outdoor spaces"? Or possibly "makes up"? As it stands, I think something grammatical is missing! HTH Nortonius ( talk) 13:55, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
The Bot didn't update at 16:00 UTC, so the update is over 50 minutes late as I write this. Whoever updates the page with the material currently in Queue 3, please note the correction that needs to be made (see Queue 3 section immediately above this one). Thanks! BlueMoonset ( talk) 16:53, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
This actor is fairly young: it is very likely that his father is still alive. As such, anything we say about him is subject to laws of libel. We can say that Jan Uddin has said this of his father: there has never been a court case, so we can't say that it happened. Mr Uddin senior might choose not to take action against his son, but that does not prevent him doing so against those repeating the claim. Kevin McE ( talk) 18:11, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
I've just done an edit to the Pain in My Heart hook, since it was comparing apples and oranges—an album to a song—but even now that it's song to song there's an underlying problem with it: you don't accuse a song of copyright infringement, you accuse the songwriter, in this case, Naomi Neville. You can say that a song was thought to be an infringing work, I suppose. Before this hits the front page or even gets promoted to a queue, either the hook needs to be reworded or the entry needs to be pulled temporarily while a better wording is found. Since it's an article about the album, the album/song differentiation needs to be maintained. BlueMoonset ( talk) 22:35, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
It's been 9 hours since the last DYK Main page update. I don't know if the bot is down. — Bruce1ee talk 05:05, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
In less than two hours Did you know will need to be updated, however the next queue either has no hooks or has not been approved by an administrator. It would be much appreciated if an administrator would take the time to ensure that DYK is updated on time by following these instructions:
Then, when the time is right I will be able to update the template. Thanks and have a good day, DYKUpdateBot ( talk) 19:15, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
Just a note, I got a credit for a DYK that listed Monkey Island (series) as the DYK, but in reality, it's Game Dev Story which is the main article (and the bolded one). I guess it somehow got screwed up when it was transfered to the queue or maybe I made a mistake inputting it? Either way, I'm not sure how to change these sorts of records. Nomader ( talk) 06:24, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
Over the last few weeks I have noticed multiple 'Did you know?' items that I felt were borderline advertisements. In particular, product and company-related entries written in such as way as to place the focus on other aspects of the statement(s) whilst still mentioning (and linking to) said companies and products. I would like to know if anyone else has noticed this and/or feels that policy should be revised; my motion is that 'Did you know?' nominations should not include trivia regarding present day companies and their (present or historic) products. prat ( talk) 16:18, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
I'd like to have this returned to the nomination page. It was approved, but with a caveat. I did not see the approval tick till just now and the reviewer wrote something that had missed my notice before and I'd like to address it so that my first proposed hook, which I think is more interesting, can be used. The fact was not cited in the story, which was just an oversight and I can easily fix this (and will get to it as soon as I post this). Thanks in advance. Marrante ( talk) 12:57, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
Just a reminder to reviewers: you can't always rely on Duplication Detector to tell you when there's a problem with an article. Take for example this nom: the size of the source prevented the tool from working properly, but a manual check showed large-scale near-verbatim copying. Nikkimaria ( talk) 15:34, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
In less than two hours Did you know will need to be updated, however the next queue either has no hooks or has not been approved by an administrator. It would be much appreciated if an administrator would take the time to ensure that DYK is updated on time by following these instructions:
Then, when the time is right I will be able to update the template. Thanks and have a good day, DYKUpdateBot ( talk) 12:30, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
The word described needs a preposition before the description: you cannot say the noise was described "ear-splitting, but the noise was described as "ear-splitting". However, since the description is a simile with the word as twice already, suggest that the horse was said to be " as near to perfection..." Kevin McE ( talk) 17:11, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
Rally driving is one discipline of motor sport; stunt driving is another altogether. Which is the singer claimed to have trained in? Having endured the video, I can't see anything in it that would be normally considered to be stunt driving. Kevin McE ( talk) 17:11, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
Another copyvio removed from the mainpage today: Template:Did you know nominations/Musa Muradov
It would help if folks would understand that copying the entire structure of a source is copyvio. See Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2009-04-13/Dispatches:
Adapting source text, whether by paraphrasing or summarizing, is a valuable skill, and contributors to Wikipedia need to be alert to the potential for inadvertent plagiarism. Many editors believe that by changing a few words here or there—or even by changing a great number of the words found in the original source—they have avoided plagiarism. This is not necessarily the case. Nor does the mere rearrangement of clauses, sentences, or paragraphs avoid the problem.
In other words, just because the duplication detector shows only a few words similar, we're not out of the woods.
In terms of both plagiarism and copyright, the author of a text not only "owns" the precise, creative language he or she uses, but less tangible creative features of presentation, which may incorporate the structure of the piece and the choice of facts.
and
In evaluating copyright concerns, the United States courts adopt a "substantial similarity" test that compares the pattern and sequence of two works, finding such similarity where "the ordinary observer [reading two works], unless he set out to detect the disparities, would be disposed to overlook them, and regard their aesthetic appeal as the same."[17] Even if all of the language is revised, a court may find copyright infringement under the doctrine of "comprehensive non-literal similarity" if "the pattern or sequence of the two works is similar".[18] Likewise, plagiarism may exist if readers comparing the two works would come away with a sense that one is copied from or too heavily based on another.
Every DYK I have examined from this nominator has the same problem: if you read the source, and then read the article, you are reading someone else's work, with a few words juggled. See examples at Template:Did you know nominations/Nosa Igiebor (journalist) and Template:Did you know nominations/Aboubakr Jamaï.
It's hard not to despair when no amount of scrutiny has brought any change to bear on DYK, in spite of at least three years of attempts to stem the tide here. Folks, you have a training ground here for new editors, and they continue to be rewarded for not learning how to paraphrase correctly. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 18:22, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
This is a specific example of the closely paraphrased article source structure in the Musa Muradov article.
Wikipedia: Background section
“Muradov graduated from Moscow State University's journalism department in 1982. He then returned to his home town of Grozny, Chechnya, where he began work for Groznensky Rabochy, a weekly newspaper established in 1917, then controlled by the Communist Party. After the 1991 dissolution of the Soviet Union, Muradov became the paper's editor-in-chief. However, Dzhokar Dudayev, president of Czechnya's new, unrecognized secessionist government, soon attempted to make the paper an official publication of his party, and Muradov and most of his staff quit. For the next two years, he worked teaching journalism at a local university as well as reporting for a small regional publication. In 1994, he fled the growing violence of the First Chechen War with his family, moving to Moscow.”
Source: “Awards 2003 – Muradov,” CPJ (2003).
“In 1982, after graduating from Moscow State University's journalism department, Muradov returned to Grozny and began reporting for Groznensky Rabochy, which, like all Soviet publications at that time, was controlled by the Communist Party. Following the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union, Groznensky Rabochy became an independent publication, and Muradov became its editor-in-chief. Two years later, as secessionist movements in the region gained momentum, Chechnya's separatist leader Dzhokar Dudayev attempted to convert Groznensky Rabochy into his administration's official publication. Muradov and most of his staff refused to compromise the paper's newfound freedom and walked away. Groznensky Rabochy was consequently shuttered, and Muradov took a job as a correspondent for a regional publication while teaching journalism at a local university. In 1994, with the situation becoming increasingly violent in Chechnya, Muradov and his family fled to Moscow.”
The question is does CPJ "own" facts pertaining to Muradov's life. Is there any other way to convey the same information in a coherent manner (probably chronological) that would not be too close to the source but still accurately reflect (no OR or opinion) what happened in the man's life? Froggerlaura ( talk) 19:04, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
I think Froggerlaura and Orlady do a good job here of demonstrating that the article follows a bit closely on the structure of the original and also that the creativity in the original is fairly low. I think it benefits from the change, but that the issues would be very unlikely to rise to the level of a copyright concern, which a court would probably determine with an "ordinary observer" test of the look and feel. -- Moonriddengirl (talk) 14:23, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
I've made a post here which may be of interest. What I've asked there is whether it is actually possibly to copyright a standard structure to an article such as chronological ordering frequently used in biographical articles? My view is that this is not in fact possible, as many biographical dictionaries and articles published in many different places, by different authors, all claiming their own copyright, frequently follow the same chronological structure when describing a person's life story. Biographies when they are in a stub state are essentially collections of facts about a person's life arranged in chronological order. As a biography develops, it is possible to make some sections thematic, or to follow the 'house style' that Wikipedia biography articles tend to adopt, but in cases where there are few sources, and those sources do nothing more than arrange facts in chronological order, the structure of a Wikipedia article will of necessity also follow that structure. Care should be taken to avoid exact duplication of structure, but some duplication will likely always be present. It might also help to be clearer what level of structure is being discussed. You can have duplication of structure at the clause level, the sentence level, the paragraph level, the section level, and the article level. The approach to avoiding or fixing such duplication of structure can vary, which is why being precise on what structure is being discussed is important. What level of structure was being duplicated in the examples above? Carcharoth ( talk) 21:39, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
While I appreciate the discussion here and below, I may as well make this decision moot by simply leaving Wikipedia. I'd been off for a while anyway, and was attempting a return after a diagnosis of chronic illness left me housebound for life this month. In retrospect, this is a silly place for me to be at this stressful juncture of my life, and facing discussion because I'm found to be in violation of a policy SG had to go back to
Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2009-04-13/Dispatches to find is just the last indicator.
I've never claimed to be a perfect editor, and I do think Sandy's concerns here are valid ones that are worth discussing. I've edited in good faith, but it's still quite possible I'm on the wrong side of this gray area. So why not talk to me directly and calmly (on this page or elsewhere), give examples, and make suggestions for improvement instead of posting a public shaming that condemns my work as a whole, treats all my attempts to discuss the issue as bad faith, and offers no constructive suggestions? I'm tired of admins who are more interested in "Gotcha" than in actually helping editors improve their work, and tired of a community that lets such people run the place.
Anyway, the debate goes on, but if people feel that my case turns out to be actionable, I'm willing to return for whatever RfC, AN/I, etc. you wish to convene so that I can apologize and accept responsibility and punishment for any mistakes I've made; just e-mail me through my page. Other than that, I'm out, yos.
Sandy, just to set your mind at ease, our only previous encounters were in the Great DYK Flame War of Summer '11 when you repeatedly accused everyone involved in DYK of lacking any decency. I asked you a few times on this page to take the hostility down a notch, to which you never responded.
Good luck to all still fighting the good fight to create new content for the wiki. I do sincerely apologize for my shortcomings as an editor that have caused this kerfuffle. It's been a pleasure working with all of you,
Khazar (
talk)
22:49, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
Regardless of how this case works out, I think it illustrates that we as a project need to be on the same page about how we handle close paraphrase when we find it. Can we all agree that the above method, where posts where made to the nom page, the author's page, WP:ERRORS, another editor's talk, and here, is not how these situations should be handled? This is the worst possible outcome out of many. The above author was ready and willing to discuss the issues at the nomination page, but was instead forced to defend his writing choices on a widely-watched noticeboard. To be blunt, this shouldn't happen like this again.
Interesting but unworkable suggestion; once a DYK goes to the mainpage, the nomination page is closed, the nominators frequently unwatch (and don't return to) the articles, and the nomination page has nothing to do with WP:ERRORS. Also, reporting problems on the nomination page doesn't get issues addressed at DYK, which is where they are occurring. A more workable solution for dealing with the recurring issues would be to put procedures in place at DYK that address the long-standing issues (which do not only involve copyvio/plagiarism/cut-and-paste, but also involve reliable sourcing, faulty hooks, unsourced hooks, and glaring prose errors) going on the mainpage. There have been many suggestions over the years, a bit of progress (at least we have a nomination page now and an archived record of the unabating problem), but no substantial change in the problem affecting the mainpage. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 11:30, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
If I may offer some general feedback, I strongly advocate trying to minimize shock and shame for people who may have issues with close paraphrasing, and wherever discussion may best take place do like the emphasis on neutral terminology. My own practice has generally evolved more and more in that direction over the years I've worked copyright issues on Wikipedia, as I've had plenty of opportunity to see what gets the best result. (In my opinion, the best result is good practice for writing free content and a happy, productive contributor. If we both walk away feeling good, then it's a "win" for Wikipedia. :)) I really like the way Choess succinctly describes the issues with close paraphrasing and especially the difference between that and copy-pasting from a "good faith" perspective. Besides my work on Wikipedia, I've taught college composition and know that the art of paraphrasing is a difficult one...and sometimes most difficult for the best students. Students are taught for most of their lives to accurately recount what they're given, but then suddenly required to do it in different language. This is a hard-won skill for many people. Most of the contributors I've found with close paraphrasing issues (though not all) can and will moderate their approach if issues are explained constructively. If people are inadvertently made to feel ashamed, it can sap both their motivation to contribute and their belief that they have something worthwhile to contribute, and that's a shame.
In terms of the poll below, unfortunately, best language approaches for the problem is also not always an inborn skill. :) Just as I've seen a lot of people with copyright issues in my four-whatever years of doing copyright work, I've seen a lot of people trying to address copyright issues, and they are also doing important work. I try when I can to encourage good practices with them in neutral terms that avoid shaming or demotivating them from keeping an eye out for issues. If you're going to add language to guide whistleblowers, for lack of a better term, I would really suggest adding concrete guidance, because I would swear that in even the most abrasive, accusatory confrontations I've seen (and I've seen some doozies), the contributor thought the language was appropriate to the situation.
I think we need to avoid here shaming people who fall at either end of the "close paraphrase" continuum - whether that's those who need to come towards the "stricter" side to meet community standards or those who are already too strict. Insofar as we possibly can, we must take the conversation out of the realm of emotion and keep it firmly grounded in reasoned conversation. :) -- Moonriddengirl (talk) 14:00, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
In practice, all decisions on what should be regarded plagiarism, and how bad it is (say, acceptable, must be rewritten, or so-so but should not be repeated, or etc.) are a matter of on-wiki consensus. However, this is just a part of a more general issue of phrasing concerns with a DYK nom. Such concerns have bordered the line of direct accusation way too often in the past. Thus my suggestion is as follows: whoever is the whistleblower, he/she must follow the line "not guilty until decided so by consensus" and use an appropriate language. I believe this is part of the unspoken wikipedia civility code and therefore suggest a poll on that
I believe the consensus for this would be decided at WP:CIVIL or WP:COPYVIO, not here. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 11:32, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Please help with checking in the Contributor copyright investigation, The alleged PumpkinSky copyvio, 28 articles (of 729 touched) need to be checked. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 10:06, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Finished! -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 15:40, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
I'm sorry I'm late to this discussion (my house's internet is being all finicky lately); I was the one who originally reviewed Musa Muradov, so I figure I should at least say something in this discussion. I received the following message from User:SandyGeorgia yesterday: "Structure of almost the entire article copied from one source, removed from the mainpage". I feel that this is an egregious broach of WP:AGF, as I had obviously reviewed the exact same article and come to a completely different conclusion. A much better way of wording this would be, "The article Musa Muradov has come under scrutiny for being too closely paraphrased to the original article and has been removed from the queue. Could you comment on the discussion as the original reviewer?" Also, instead of "Plagiarism Dispatch", why not name this section "Possible Paraphrasing Issue?" I think it's obvious that there was no intention to copy the original source verbatim, and plagiarism has a negative connotation to it which implies exactly that.
With regards to whether or not this is paraphrased too closely, I stand by my original assessment. The article is in an encyclopedic form in its chronological order and I see no way of rearranging the fact of his life to avoid minor paraphrasing (the re-write examples shown up top are actually quite impressively done). It is all cited in-line with proper references (without such, it would actually be plagiarism and I would have duly reported it). It meets the DYK criteria otherwise, and I found the hook to be insightful and interesting. If there is consensus to reverse my original decision, I understand, but I feel I should make my opinion known. Nomader ( talk) 17:43, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Hi, can I get the opinion of an image copyright expert on Template:Did you know nominations/Edin Osmanović? The nominator apparently knows the subject of the article personally and claims to be a photographer. Should I just assume good faith in that case? Thanks! — Toдor Boжinov — 11:04, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
Could some admin, assuming they agree with me, make the following changes please?
The Prep 3 Cuyopsis hook "that shells of the extinct Argentinian bivalve Cuyopsis are symmetrical enough to be named for it?" left me scratching my head: the final "it" seems to me to be referring back to the Cuyopsis shells, so I was left to conclude that, somehow, symmetry is related to Cuyopsis in some mysterious, indirect fashion. In fact, the article says the genus Cuyopsis was named for the region; it's the species name Cuyopsis symmetricus that comes from those symmetrical shells.
I have edited the hook accordingly, with the added "rectangular" description (from the article's mention that these shells were "rectangular in outline") to add interest—not a typical shape—while still keeping the symmetry. I mention this here so that if I've gone astray, corrections can be made before it's too late:
Hope it works! BlueMoonset ( talk) 14:44, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
As Lihaas has pointed out on Orlady's talk page, the Queue 6 entry (from the template National Movement for the Liberation of Azawa) has problems that need addressing.
The hook in the queue (number five of six) is currently as follows:
While the suggestion there is to add a parenthetical element—instead of "for the defeated government", change it to "(mostly for the defeated government)"—I'm not sure "mostly" is justified either, and I feel that parentheses should be avoided in DYK entries. My suggestion, for a variety of reasons, is instead to use the sourced allAfrica characterization (ref 4) and make the sole change the addition of the word "many" before "Tuareg":
I was curious to note that the QPQ requirement is only applied to self nominations, and not nominations by a separate party. Is there a reason that they are not included in the requirement?-- Kev min § 09:51, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
In my first double article nomination, Template:Did you know nominations/Jordy Mercer, Matt Hague, the reviewer said I only needed to have performed one QPQ review rather than two. Is that the case? I have a nomination up right now with ten articles and I've so far performed six reviews for it. I don't have a problem doing four more, but I am curious about the distinctions regarding multiple articles in a nomination. – Muboshgu ( talk) 23:54, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
I think I was always told multiple expansions in a single nomination are treated as one nomination and require one. (And when I did a multiple nomination recently, some one commented I should have reviewed two, but some one else commented to say no.) It doesn't particularly fuss me either way, but helpful to know when nominating. (I'll take the additional review count for having done that one if it does.;) -- LauraHale ( talk) 03:41, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
This is on the main page now. I checked it earlier, but could not log on because I was on a hand held (and can only rarely log on successfully from it). The hook fact can be cited (I've found a ref for it) and I'm about to take care of it, but I just wanted to state that it is not there now. This should have been taken care of in the review stage or while it was in prep, no? Marrante ( talk) 13:28, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
I've designed a template that can be dropped on a user talk page, accepting an article name as a parameter, thanking the editor for his new article and suggesting they nominate it for a DYK. Feel free to tweak it directly, and if you like it, we could consider mainspacing it and/or linking it from one of official DYK pages. The current use for syntax is {{subst:User:Piotrus/TDYK|ArticleName}} . -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me 20:28, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
In less than two hours Did you know will need to be updated, however the next queue either has no hooks or has not been approved by an administrator. It would be much appreciated if an administrator would take the time to ensure that DYK is updated on time by following these instructions:
Then, when the time is right I will be able to update the template. Thanks and have a good day, DYKUpdateBot ( talk) 22:05, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
I cannot determine from reading:
what the consensus was on that, and don't know if that consensus has since changed. I had encountered that before, but the recent mainpage
leads to my question. The Jennifer Worth nomination was presented initially with paraphrasing issues (subsequently cleaned up by others), but nonetheless went on the mainpage with text sourced to personal blogs, which was generally trivia. I'm unaware of how to check if the word count was met with the blog-sourced trivia removed, but I'm also unclear on what happened to Wilhelmina Will's topic ban proposal based on these same issues years ago (I was aware that Blechnic left Wikipedia after being one of the first to raise these concerns). Could someone who knows the history explain the consensus on Wilhelmina Will's proposed topic ban? SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 15:51, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
In the fourth hook of Queue 5 (for Similodonta), "in" should be removed or moved between "down" and "a". MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 20:23, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
An approved hook needs to get to the Main Page by the 26th for an editor to advance in the WikiCup. Any help for them? BCS (Talk) 21:11, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
Would it be out of line for me to politely request that an approved hook of mine, Template:Did you know nominations/List of Connecticut Huskies in the WNBA Draft, also be placed in queue by the 26th? :-) I also need this promoted to advance in the cup. – Grondemar 02:56, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
Would Sir Francis Verney be eligible for this page? I think there are several facts which would make interesting hooks. 71.184.38.227 ( talk) 22:29, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
I tried following the directions to submit the article but I can't create the subpage. I entered the name of the article but I couldn't fill out the form. The save/preview buttons were also missing. I was going to post it directly to "Template talk:Did you know" but when I edit the main page it tells me to create a subpage. 71.184.38.227 ( talk) 15:19, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
So would someone else have to create the subpage or do I just copy the form to the main page? 71.184.38.227 ( talk) 00:51, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
Alright, here's a few that stand out:
71.184.38.227 ( talk) 05:43, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
I've created the template for you: Template:Did you know nominations/Francis Verney. Someone will review it in time, so be sure to respond to any comments they may have. – Muboshgu ( talk) 00:32, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
Would somebody here be so kind as to take a look at User talk:HJ#Beebuk and see if everything;s in order with the nomination the editor is enquiring about—I'm not familiar with the new nomination system (even though it's not that new any more!). Thanks, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:35, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
In prep area 4 there is an entry which reads:
I think the use of "began" in this sentence is what they call a dangling modifier. Anyway, the sentence can be read in two completely logical ways with very different meanings:
In less than two hours Did you know will need to be updated, however the next queue either has no hooks or has not been approved by an administrator. It would be much appreciated if an administrator would take the time to ensure that DYK is updated on time by following these instructions:
Then, when the time is right I will be able to update the template. Thanks and have a good day, DYKUpdateBot ( talk) 06:06, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
3 out of 6 hooks in this batch are sports related: an imbalance that should be addressed. Kevin McE ( talk) 11:36, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
Please can an administrator change the hook on Zennor Head (in queue 1) back to the one it was promoted with, i.e "that Zennor Head, Cornwall, is the largest coastal feature in the United Kingdom that begins with the letter "Z"?" rather than the new one it has been changed to. It was changed by an editor who did not believe the book it was referenced from was a reliable source, because of a humorous comment made by the author in the introduction, but I have explained that the joke (see my edit summary on the history) about subjective opinion only related to the 4/6 picturesque rating, rather than facts in general, and an exhaustive examination of the OS maps of Britain have supported the hook as true. Thanks -- Gilderien Talk| Contribs 14:46, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
i.e.
here, change
{{*mp}}... that French general [[Hubert Lyautey]] ''(pictured)'' described his defensive tactics in the '''[[Zaian War]]''' as analogous to hollowing out a lobster?
{{*mp}}... that in 1936, '''[[Mahmoud (horse)|Mahmoud]]''' set a course record at [[Epsom Downs Racecourse|Epsom]] and became the third of four [[Gray (horse)|grey]] racehorses to ever win the [[Epsom Derby|Derby Stakes]]?
{{*mp}}... that actor [[John Abraham (actor)|John Abraham]]'s first production '''''[[Vicky Donor]]''''' deals with the concept of [[sperm donation]]?
{{*mp}} ... that in the '''[[1991 PBA First Conference Finals]]''', [[Barangay Ginebra Kings|Ginebra San Miguel]] became the first team in [[Philippine Basketball Association]] history to win a championship series coming from a 1-3 deficit?
{{*mp}}... that the plot of the [[adventure game]] '''''[[Undercover: Operation Wintersun]]''''' focuses on a nuclear physicist trying to destroy [[Nazi Germany|Nazi German]] prototype [[nuclear weapon]]s during [[World War II]]?
{{*mp}}... that '''[[Zennor Head]]''', [[Cornwall]], is named after a woman who was reputedly washed up there after being thrown into the sea in a barrel by her husband?
to
{{*mp}}... that French general [[Hubert Lyautey]] ''(pictured)'' described his defensive tactics in the '''[[Zaian War]]''' as analogous to hollowing out a lobster?
{{*mp}}... that in 1936, '''[[Mahmoud (horse)|Mahmoud]]''' set a course record at [[Epsom Downs Racecourse|Epsom]] and became the third of four [[Gray (horse)|grey]] racehorses to ever win the [[Epsom Derby|Derby Stakes]]?
{{*mp}}... that actor [[John Abraham (actor)|John Abraham]]'s first production '''''[[Vicky Donor]]''''' deals with the concept of [[sperm donation]]?
{{*mp}} ... that in the '''[[1991 PBA First Conference Finals]]''', [[Barangay Ginebra Kings|Ginebra San Miguel]] became the first team in [[Philippine Basketball Association]] history to win a championship series coming from a 1-3 deficit?
{{*mp}}... that the plot of the [[adventure game]] '''''[[Undercover: Operation Wintersun]]''''' focuses on a nuclear physicist trying to destroy [[Nazi Germany|Nazi German]] prototype [[nuclear weapon]]s during [[World War II]]?
{{*mp}}... that '''[[Zennor Head]]''', [[Cornwall]], is the largest [[coastal feature]] in the [[United Kingdom]] that begins with the letter "Z"?
(the original succesful nomination is
here)
Thanks --
Gilderien
Talk|
Contribs
15:04, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
Is there any objective way of measuring the size of a coastal feature? Where does it start and finish. And an editor looking at OS maps can only be OR. By what criteria is the author of this book authoritative or reliable? Light-hearted books carry all sorts of statements that cannot be considered to have been enyclopaedically verified. Kevin McE ( talk) 15:59, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
... a proposal to signal aliens by drawing a massive representation At least in UK English, it is usual to signal to somebody. Signal also seems to suggest a more active mode of communication than simply putting something on the ground and passively waiting to see if someone/thing happens to notice it. Kevin McE ( talk) 16:19, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
Inconsistent to compare the "actor" Brigitte to the character Eddie. Either compare Stella to Eddie, or Brigitte to Moose. Kevin McE ( talk) 16:27, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
... that composer Graham Waterhouse played Chinese whispers in Chinese Whispers? Simply untrue. One cannot play the game without several people each using their voice to pass on a verbal message. The game influenced/inspired the composition: the game is not played during performance of the composition. Needs to be sent back for a re-write. Kevin McE ( talk) 11:18, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
Interested parties may wish to contribute here. Kevin McE ( talk) 14:12, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
In less than two hours Did you know will need to be updated, however the next queue either has no hooks or has not been approved by an administrator. It would be much appreciated if an administrator would take the time to ensure that DYK is updated on time by following these instructions:
Then, when the time is right I will be able to update the template. Thanks and have a good day, DYKUpdateBot ( talk) 22:05, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
If it isn't a bother, could somebody perform reviews on the noms for Bay Darnell and John King (racing driver)? The creator of the first article requested that it run on DYK if possible with the Daytona 500, which didn't happen - but the race has been pushed back to tomorrow (noon GMT+5) by rain, and the latter would fit well with it as well, so if it's possible to get these up tomorrow mid-day New York time, that would be awesome. If not though, no worries! - The Bushranger One ping only 23:33, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
There appear to be two unreviewed articles from the second hook of Prep 3. Due to template limitations, only eight of the ten articles appear in the section heading and only those eight have "article history links" on the nomination page. The review specifically says that eight articles were reviewed. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 00:59, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
In less than two hours Did you know will need to be updated, however the next queue either has no hooks or has not been approved by an administrator. It would be much appreciated if an administrator would take the time to ensure that DYK is updated on time by following these instructions:
Then, when the time is right I will be able to update the template. Thanks and have a good day, DYKUpdateBot ( talk) 06:05, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
The reason: all the queues are empty. Is there an admin who can help please? — Bruce1ee talk 10:15, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
The Scroogle hook on the main page was recently removed [9], leaving five hooks in the set. There was no discussion for removal of the hook, admin issue. Froggerlaura ( talk) 19:41, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
No response after 24 hours from Dragonfly. Should we just go ahead and put the hook back into prep? Silver seren C 22:18, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
So, let's go with one of the alternate hooks then to make everyone happy. I like the first one. Silver seren C 23:14, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
I started a DYK nomination yesterday for Cash mob, which you can find here. User:What a pro. reviewed it, but didn't pass it because he said that the hook has to explain what a cash mob is. I disagree with this. The requirement for hooks is that they are directly cited in the article and are interesting. There's nothing in the rules that say they have to define the subject. I thought those were the dry sort of hooks that we were trying to avoid? I left a message on What a pro's talk page 19 hours ago, but there's been no response so far. Silver seren C 03:36, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
Hello. Please note that there's an alternative version that was approved by The Bushranger for Template:Did you know nominations/Aeroflot accidents and incidents in the 1980s, different from the one used here. Cheers.-- Jetstreamer ( talk) 12:40, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
In what way was the act of remixing exclusive? Sounds like promotional hyperbole of no real meaning. He didn't remix those tracks for any other album? Only Chew Fu remixed them? And what is an electronic record producer? A producer of electronic music (a genre description so wide that it would include anything from Kraftwerk to Drop the Lime, or a music producer who uses electronics (an even more generalised description)? Kevin McE ( talk) 18:06, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
I've just reviewed
Template:Did you know nominations/Milan Area C, and everything in it seems alright to me. However, the article's history shows that it was eligible for DYK by January 17, although it wasn't until February 17 that the nomination was created. It's a southern European traffic law article and to me that seems uncommon enough to consider invoking
WP:IAR to stick it up there anyway (since I'm pretty sure 5 days isn't a hard and fast rule anyway). Would anyone mind if I changed my verdict on this and signed off on it as okay to run?
GRAPPLE
X
21:35, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
Hello, I'm asking this question because I'm really confused over an important issue. I searched the archive and found nudity/sexuality-related articles in Main Page cause a lot of controversy (as can be seen from the discussions ( here, here, ( here, here). This is why I withdrew the nomination of recently expanded article about a nudist festival Nudes-A-Poppin'. Here is the archived discussion. Please provide a brief input on this issue, especially whether Nudes-A-Poppin' was suitable for DYK. I found articles like Nude wedding and More Demi Moore were featured in the DYK. And there is an article about a film waiting to be featured with this image. The problem is that since we do not have any clear-cut policy regarding nudity/sexuality-related material on the Main Page, it become very difficult to identify which article is suitable for the Main Page, and which not. Although Wikipedia is not censored, nudity-related article are generally restricted from being featured in the Main Page from common sense ground ( Wikipedia:Ignore all rules), as I can see from the previous discussions. This is very reasonable if the article does not have encyclopedic value. I think we need a policy regarding this matter. Thanks! -- SupernovaExplosion Talk 01:40, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
Can someone help? Monmouth Cap has been patiently waiting to appear on March 1st since January. Its an article designed to run on St David's day. Nikkimania had a concern which has been addressed twice. However the clock is ticking. Can someone fly in, check that the concern has been addressed and if so move it to the St Davids day queue There are still good slots available. Thanks for listening - hope you can spare the time Victuallers ( talk) 10:00, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
Could I also ask for some eyes at the articles Morgraig Castle and Cardiff town walls? Both were pulled from prep by Nikkimaria and were originally to run on 1 March, and User:Seth Whales, the creator, hasn't edited since 26 February. The close paraphrasing concerns are detailed at the nomination pages: here and here. Judging by Nikkimaria's comments, the latter may be a more serious case. It would be nice if the issue could be resolved and those two run on St David's Day after all. Yngvadottir ( talk) 15:35, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
This nomination, Template:Did you know nominations/List of Sturgeon class submarines, was originally put into a prep area on February 25, but was pulled in order to gain an image, and thus be eligible for the top slot. This required an image review, and I pitched in to do it, even though I wasn't the original reviewer, since said reviewer had already signed off on the nomination.
It seems a shame for the nomination not to have a shot at the top slot under the circumstances. If people think it isn't appropriate for it, I can understand, but I'm not sure it's been considered in that light. Given that this is in the next prep area due to be moved to a queue, even if only four slots are filled at the moment, I thought I ought to draw attention to it before it's too late. Thanks.
BTW, the prep area currently has seven slots, while all the queues and other prep areas are still at six slots. Whoever finishes off the prep area should fix this, regardless of what is done with the nomination. BlueMoonset ( talk) 03:29, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
I shifted three to the queues and started loading prep 3 - but have other things that need doing. Anyone is welcome to keep loading. Casliber ( talk · contribs) 12:32, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
In both Queue 5 and Queue 6 we have hooks using a nickname for the Australian women's water polo team that is unlikely to be known by many outside the spectator base of that relatively low profile sport. I would argue that this is tantamount to insider jargon, and fails to inform the reader. Kevin McE ( talk) 20:02, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
Charles Cruft (showman) was supposed to for March 11, but was mistakenly moved to prep. I thought it said in the special occasion holding area that only an admin could move it there, so I did not.-- Ishtar456 ( talk) 13:05, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
The nominator has requested on my talk page that the Charles Cruft hook be held for 8 March. As the set was promoted within 30 minutes of me finishing it, I can't touch the hook now. Anyone? Crisco 1492 ( talk) 13:09, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
Thanks.-- Ishtar456 ( talk) 13:39, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
Revolt_(network), El_Rey_(network) and Aspire_(network), which share a hook currently in Prep 4, also share a nearly identical paragraph, without which at least two (and possibly the third) would be too short to be eligible. I had thought repeating content in this way was not allowed? Nikkimaria ( talk) 23:06, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
I have just loaded three hooks into Prep3. Would someone like to check to see if I have done it correctly as this is my first attempt at doing it. Cwmhiraeth ( talk) 10:21, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
There seems to be no evident reason why we are displaying wolfram rather than the IUPAC name of the element, and home of the article linked, tungsten. Kevin McE ( talk) 18:52, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
This talk page seems to have two very different purposes:
Would it be sensible for the queues to have their own talk page, which could be transcluded here, as wp:errors is transcluded onto Talk:Main Page? Kevin McE ( talk) 19:12, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
The hook on this item is simply not accurate. It seems to be criticizing actor Paul Dooley for a preposterous portrayal, when the reviewer, VanDerWerff, is criticizing the character, Joe Bangs, who goes from horrifying to preposterous in that episode. This hook either needs a major overhaul, or a completely new version. I can't come up with anything on the fly; if no one else can, the nomination should be withdrawn until a new hook can be crafted and approved. BlueMoonset ( talk) 20:04, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
I had a similar problem. When I submitted my edit, someone else's edit appeared, but mine did not. The usual "edit conflict" warning did not appear.-- Ishtar456 ( talk) 03:40, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Second to last hook, "Battle of Copenhagen," is missing its "that." Yngvadottir ( talk) 22:16, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi,
I recently came back to wikipedia after a long absence and am overwhelmed by the length of, and back log on
Template talk:Did you know. I have come up with a some suggestions for how to clean up that page. <s>1. Either put the directions for "how to nom" and "how to review" on separate, '''clearly linked''', pages. Or collapse them, the way the contents can be collapsed. 2. There should be a time limit to how long a nom has to fix issues with the article. I see several lengthy discussions about articles with multiple issues, mostly plagiarism, POV and citations. I think there should be a point where some says "This does not pass, case closed". But it seems like a lot of time is spent on poor nominations and they just sit there forever until someone finally fixes the problem. Is there a rule that says that every nomination eventually passes? It seems to me that a lot of perfectly good nomination are being delayed because of all the effort put into problematic articles. <s>3. I have also noticed that noms, fulling the requirement to review other articles, often make one comment and then don't follow up after the problem is fixed. I think that they should be told they have to see the review to the end. I think once someone takes on the review they should see it through, unless there is a need for a second opinion or mediation. Just some thoughts.--
Ishtar456 (
talk)
01:06, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
If you see a review where a person has responded to feedback and the original reviewer has not come back to address it, just give the reviewer a ping. Sometimes, we review and there are issues and it takes a day or two to get fixed and it is easy to miss them on your watch list. I really like the how to review instructions above the page as it makes it much, much easier to review because the guidelines are right there. -- LauraHale ( talk) 02:29, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
There is also the red bendy arrow symbol that can be added to attract attention to a nomination that needs to be looked at again. (A very good idea, recently implemented.) Yngvadottir ( talk) 05:17, 3 March 2012 (UTC)