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Bradv, Sir,
I reworked the article about Vera King (subject) based on the Wikipedia Resource "Identifying and using independent sources". The sources are mostly found on Google Scholar and Google Books and are all independent from the subject. I did not find a hint in the Wiki-resource whereas citing reliable sources like Springer Link is assessed as self-promotion. In general, scientific researches lead to publications, that is one of their purposes.
Before I send the article again to a submission I would be happy if you have a look at the status. For clarification, I include the research about the sources into this posting. I understand and endorse the endeavor to maintain the Wikipedia as a serious encyclopedy, free from self-promotion and misuse for economic purposes. The corrections live up to this objective and hopefully, the requirements are now fulfilled.
Thank you for your corrections and hints to improve the article.
1: Doesn't work; looks like a self-published biography (faculty page).
Reference: The link refers to the Sigmund-Freud-Institut, a worldwide unique and most reputed institution where the "subject" is part of the management. No self-promotion.
2, 3: Books written by the subject Research on Google Scholar: https://scholar.google.de/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=2005&sciodt=0%2C5&cites=10472637956277113320&scipsc=&q=Publication+version%3A+V.+King+%281995%29%3A+Die+Urszene+der+Psychoanalyse.+Adoleszenz+und+Geschlechterspannung+im+Fall+Dora.+Publisher+Internationale+Psychoanalyse%2FKlett-Cotta.&btnG= Reference: https://www.pep-web.org/document.php?id=PSYCHE.050F.0574A Reserach on Google Scholar: https://www.google.de/search?q=Die+Entstehung+des+Neuen+in+der+Adoleszenz.+Individuation%2C+Generativit%C3%A4t+und+Geschlecht+in+modernisierten+Gesellschaften%2C+Springer%2C+edition+from+2004%3B+1.+edition+2002%3A+Leske+und+Budrich%3B+reissue+2004+VS+Publisher&rlz=1C5CHFA_enDE575DE575&oq=Die+Entstehung+des+Neuen+in+der+Adoleszenz.+Individuation%2C+Generativit%C3%A4t+und+Geschlecht+in+modernisierten+Gesellschaften%2C+Springer%2C+edition+from+2004%3B+1.+edition+2002%3A+Leske+und+Budrich%3B+reissue+2004+VS+Publisher&aqs=chrome..69i57.1023j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 Reference: https://www.springer.com/de/book/9783322808899
4: Not linked, but by the name is a faculty page of a university Reference: Neutral source (federal department of education and science) research program which cites Vera King with link
5: Faculty page, possibly self-published Replaced by an official, administrative source which presents Vera King as a regular professor at the University of Frankfurt Reference: https://qis.server.uni-frankfurt.de/qisserver/rds?moduleCall=webInfo&personal.pid=20616&publishConfFile=webInfoPerson&publishSubDir=personal&state=verpublish&status=init&topitem=members&vmfile=no
6: Doesn't work Corrected. Didn't work due to a re-work of the website, sorry.
7 Reference Google Books: https://books.google.de/books?id=87Ge2UApx7YC&dq=Karin+Flaake,+Vera+King:+Weibliche+Adoleszenz.+Zur+Sozialisation+junger+Frauen&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiAmLqpnOrdAhXGmLQKHUrwC0kQ6AEILDAA
9, Resarch Google books: https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=Intergenerationalit%C3%A4t+%E2%80%93+theoretische+und+methodologische+Forschungsperspektiven%2C+In%3A+B%C3%B6ker+K+%26+Z%C3%B6lch+J+%28Hg.%29%3A+Intergenerationale+Qualitative+Forschung+-+Theoretische+und+methodische+Perspektiven. Reference was correct.
10: Written by the subject Source 1: Link replaced with a link to Google Books https://books.google.de/books?id=6QFlDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT158&dq=%E2%80%98Lost+in+Perfection.%E2%80%98+Impacts+of+Optimisation+on+Culture+and+Psyche.+London:+Routledge&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiMpt2vpurdAhULL1AKHdP_CFUQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=%E2%80%98Lost%20in%20Perfection.%E2%80%98%20Impacts%20of%20Optimisation%20on%20Culture%20and%20Psyche.%20London%3A%20Routledge&f=false Source 2: The source is the publication of the research results. No self-promotion.
11: Faculty page, possibly self-published Link replaced with the official research paper (pdf), No self-promotion http://www.fb03.uni-frankfurt.de/68123801/Aporias-of-Perfection_Englisch-Version1.pdf
12: Doesn't mention the subject Replaced with link to personality-page on Volkswagen Stiftung. The subject is mentioned with her academic credentials. No self-promotion. http://portal.volkswagenstiftung.de/search/personDetails.do?addrNum=31679&fromProject=93264
13: Written by the subject A research project, not written by the subject. Now with the correct link: https://www.ipu-berlin.de/hochschule/forschung/projekt/das-vermessene-leben.html. No self-promotion
14: Mentions the subject in passing The subject is leader of the research program and gives the introduction to the conference, due to the German written article. No change necessary.
15: Interview with the subject (not independent) Sorry, but the source is absolutely independent. Great interview, no self-promotion. But this repaired reference looks better.
16, Corrected link leads now to the publisher page where the subject is mentioned.
17 Corrected link where the subject is mentioned.
18: Don't mention the subject Corrected link where the subject is mentioned as part of the editorial board.
Former reference: 19, Link will be removed until adequate source is found.
Former reference: 20, Subject is mentioned by name as member of the scientific advisory board (Wissenchaftlicher Beirat), likewise all the other members. No change necessary.
Former reference: 21: Mentions the subject by name only. Former reference: Link will be removed until adequate source is found. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rudyguy21 ( talk • contribs) 07:38, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
Thank you, Bradv, for having accepted the submission Vera King, I appreciate.
We will improve the article over time.
Have a nice day,
best,
Ruediger — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rudyguy21 ( talk • contribs) 23:27, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
To Brady: this concerns your rejection of the page "Draft:Bernis von zur Muehlen." The reason you provide is: "Encyclopedia articles need to be written from a neutral point of view, and should refer to a range of independent, reliable, published sources, not just to materials produced by the creator of the subject being discussed." Perhaps you can explain more. I thought I had taken great care to document every item with third-party sources, such a published books, articles, newspaper accounts, and neutral (ie not personal) web pages of institutions. In what sense is a newspaper article, a reference, or a review, or pages in well known books something "produced by the subject being discussed?" All these are the sources that document and verify a career of some notability. I have reviewed many artist pages on Wikipedia and followed their examples. All the sources cited are, without exception, independent, reliable, and published. I am puzzled how "Art in America," or the "Washington Post" can be considered neither publications nor reliable nor independent. I believe also that not a singe statement on the draft is subjective. Certainly no conclusions or value judgment are present, although the quantity of entries--unavoidable in a long career--may be considered non-neutral. Bt that puts me in a bind. Can you clarify? Thank you. Pmuehlen ( talk) 14:53, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
I wonder if substantially reducing the amount of specific information provided on that page would constitute a positive step in the direction of acceptability. Might one, for example, simply summarize her career, citing highlights, such as exhibits in museums and other important venues, and publications, and leave all else to the list of third-party sources cited in the original? Doing so would deviate from typical detail given Wikipedia artist's pages that I have encountered, including those of many of her peers, but would be acceptable. Pmuehlen ( talk) 21:07, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
I appreciate your efforts, and I am sure it's a thankless task. But permit me to offer some counterarguments to your assessment. You write: "I'm having trouble finding any sources that cover the subject in depth (or are even about the subject). Most of the coverage seems to be in passing, and the vast majority of the sources that are/were in this article are photo credits." (Around thirty references seem to have been deleted already, but I am not sure why). First, none of the references are photo credits, which I understand to refer acknowledgments of the source of a published photograph. Such is decidedly not the case in any of the references in the article. Most of the references are published art reviews in "multiple independent periodical articles or reviews," (criterion #3 in Notability for artists) including in major newspapers, such as the New York Times and the Washington Post, either of her solo exhibits or of group exhibits in which she took part. Many of the references are anthologies in which her work has appeared. Some of the references are contextual, placing her work in a period of cultural controversy about a genre of photography in which, judging by dates and attention, she can be considered a pioneer. This alone should, I believe, qualify her for notability, in that she is "known for having contributed a significant new concept,"(item 2 in Notability for artists) namely highly controversial and much discussed photography of the male nude in the twentieth century. Regarding criterion #4 on your Notability page: "The person's work (or works) either (a) has become a significant monument, (b) has been a substantial part of a significant exhibition, (c) has won significant critical attention, or (d) is represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums," I note that (b) her work has been a substantial part of a number of significant exhibitions, including in major museums, (c) has won significant critical attention in a number of publications, and (d) is represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums. But you seem to have deleted all references to (d). Might I ask why, given that the items would support notability? I do understand (or let's say, I think I understand) that entries in Wikipedia need to meet some standards of notability. But even Wikipedia, or rather, individuals who judge entries for Wikipedia, can get this wrong. A recent famous example is that of Donna Strickland, a 2018 (female) recipient of the Nobel Prize in Physics. Might you reconsider? Pmuehlen ( talk) 13:48, 11 October 2018 (UTC) Pmuehlen ( talk) 14:05, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
An addendum: I mentioned Strickland before I learned you had been intimately involved. What a coincidence! I do like what you say in your piece explaining the case, and it helps me appreciate the issues involved. One drawback in the review process may just be a certain lack of field expertise, which may be unavoidable. In Strickland's case, it would probably have helped if the review had been by an individual more intimately familiar with her field of study, although, here I am guessing. You may, indeed be an expert in Laser Physics yourself. But, referring to an artist's page, particularly a photographer's page, I am struck that perhaps you may not be all that familiar with this particular world. Your mention that most references are mere photo credits has raised that doubt. But, again, I may be just guessing, and you may indeed be most familiar with everything involved with the arts and surrounding culture. Pmuehlen ( talk) 14:05, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
single episode of a television series) or of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews. Criteria #2 says
originating a significant new concept, theory, or technique, which I don't think you have made a case for the artist having done. They might have been part of a broader discussion/controversy, but that isn't the same thing. If there is evidence that they invented one of those things, the article needs to say that and provide reliable independent sources that say it. Criteria #4 states
substantial part of a significant exhibition,
significant critical attention,
is represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums(emphasis added). You don't need to make the case that their work has been covered extensively, you need to make the case about how they meet these specific criteria.
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14:45, 11 October 2018 (UTC)To [User:Zchrykng|zchrykng]: On the surface, what you note seems acceptable and sounds right.: Criteria #3 states: "In addition, such work must have been the primary subject of an independent and notable work (for example, a book, film, or television series, but usually not a single episode of a television series) or of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews." The relevant sentence here is: "must have been the primary subject of an independent and notable work...or of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews." The work does meet this standard. Note, the sentence in : Criteria #3 does not contain the phrase "has to be more than." Further, don't you agree that words like "substantial" and "significant" are highly qualitative terms, easily subject to subjective interpretation? So, if you require a "significant new concept, theory, or technique" in photography, then I doubt that any photographer in Wikiland can qualify. It is simply not in the nature of this art form to have such attributes, except perhaps for the appearance of daguerreotypes at the beginning of photography in the nineteenth century. You would have to delete practically all photographers' pages from Wikipedia if this is the criterion. But if you relax this criterion a bit and make allowance for "originality," which is the more relevant criterion in art, then many of the artist pages on Wikipedia do qualify, and so does,I believe, the work of Bernis von zur Muehlen. Her contributions have been noted for their originality and have also been acknowledged as being pioneering in the sense that she was among the first two or three photographers to publicly exhibit photographs of the male nude for the first time in the early seventies. Further, as mentioned before, the work IS represented in a number of PERMANENT collections in several NOTABLE galleries or museums. But those references have been deleted without explanation. Pmuehlen ( talk) 15:35, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
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Sachsach (
talk) 11:14, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
Hi Bradv,
This is regarding /info/en/?search=Draft:Shramik_Bharti
here is your comment "I suspect this may be notable, but that depends on finding better sources that cover the topic in depth and not just passing mentions. This reads like it's using a source that's not listed here for the bulk of the content -- is the author connected with the company?"
1. Please see that out of 21 different sources which I have sighted are some are the National Newspaper like The Hindu,Times of India in India. Some Magazines like India Today also have National stature. These are considered most trusted news sources here in India. 2. UNESCO sources are also mentioned. 3. Please understand that this entire article is on a social organziation which are not that media savvy and most of the times their good work receives not that much media highlight. Still the above sources mention about Shramik Bharti, which itself is a huge accomplishment. 4. I agree that some of the sources may not be btter as per wiki standards. And I will delete those if you think that will make the article more authentic as per wiki. 5. I am not connected with organization. I have been working to bring highlight to such social organizations and individuals who have devoted their life time for the betterment of world. So yes, if you consider this as a connection then I am connected to all the genuine grassroots organizations.
Hope to receive a constructive feedback from you so that we both can bring some more such important yet easily forgotten works of grassroots people.
For making your Superlinks user script display the AfC flowchart when editors visit draft pages. Brilliant idea! Enterprisey ( talk!) 23:17, 15 October 2018 (UTC) |
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As of 21 October 2018 [update], there are 3650 unreviewed articles and the backlog now stretches back 51 days.
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The Purple Barnstar | ||
Thank you for all of the work you do on Wikipedia and in AFC. I know that you recently got some negative press coverage, and I thought it was incredibly unfair that you were being attacked for following the rules and trying to work your way through backlog. While Wikipedia's poor coverage of women is a major problem, lashing out at individual editors for making good faith contributions is not the way to solve it. Anyways, thanks for continuing to keep up the good work throughout this ordeal. Spirit of Eagle ( talk) 21:27, 28 October 2018 (UTC) |
It is possible that I am a little irritable today, as a result of seeing unexpected disagreements in several different matters. I am unsure whether to follow up with citations or let the matter rest and go back to my usual course of sticking to individual article discussions. I know I am a far outlier on the GNG, but did not think I was on WP:PROF. DGG ( talk ) 05:53, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
I agree with DGG's assessment, but I want to point out that almost all drafts about academics get rejected at AfC for notablitly at least once, if not multiple times. It is not obvious that this group of people would have their own criteria for notability. Only a handful of reviewers know about or understand WP:PROF. If we don't see them they don't get accepted. When the issue came up after the Nobel announcement I felt very guilty for getting mad about women's issues on Wikipedia and taking three months off at just the wrong time (and not doing much since). I often went through rejected AfCs looking for academics. So I want to apologize to you for not being there in the spring. And it was just bad luck that you were the reviewer who rejected it. Someone else would have rejected it too. StarryGrandma ( talk) 18:40, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
I will send these back at least once for revision, in the hope that somebody will actually fix them— that's precisely what I did. It was a poorly sourced BLP created by a single-purpose account. I've explained all this already, so your comment that the decline was erroneous still requires explanation. Brad v 19:36, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
highly selective and prestigious scholarly society or association", nor does a visit to that article give one that impression. Regardless, notability requires verification, so the claim still needed be supported by independent sources, which is why I sent it back. I am repeating myself now, so please read the essay. Brad v 20:14, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
a fellow of a major scholarly society which reserves fellow status as a highly selective honor. As a physicist I find it strange you would think The Optical Society isn't a major scholarly society. The draft also said at that point she had been president of the society, criteria #6. The explanation is that the decline did not understand that she met WP:PROF, WP:PROF needs to be clearer about sources, and most editors would have done what you did. StarryGrandma ( talk) 20:48, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
This article's status was inquired about in IRC help tonight. I don't normally act on such help requests but given the interest in this area right now I'm making an exception. I presume notability because of the Royal Fellowship and so it feels like a good chance for someone interested in the area to take it the rest of the way now that the CV elements that caused DGG's original decline have been somewhat improved and the editor is still clearly interested in the subject. This is not an area of interest or expertise for me so I am not the right person to WP:SOFIXIT; I had been thinking about the right place to post this and it seems in light of the discussion above this might be it? Best, Barkeep49 ( talk) 04:57, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
yes, its improved, tho it still reads somewhat too much like a CV. It can be fixed further in article space. Though usually a different person should review (especially if its going to be another decline) , I accepted it myself, and will remove some duplication. DGG ( talk ) 05:18, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
There are many different ways to review AfCs and do it well. (or NPP, which is essentially similar) We should try to get reasonably consistent results, but that doesn't mean we all do it the same way, or that any of us always does it in one particular way.
The way to get consistent results is to check each others' reviews. The system is set up to show them when we review what someone else has previously reviewed, and we also see them when there's a disagreement and an article goes to AfD or Deletion Review. Most of us occasionally look at others, and not only when we think something wrong. We work openly, and in fact I was explicit in asking to be an admin that my main purpose was to check others' work. If I improve my own, it's because others them, and say so when they would do differently.
Most people seem to deal with drafts (or articles) in sequence, and consequently often find themselves dealing with articles where they might not immediate recognize what is or is not likely to be notable, and rely on strict following of the notability & other guidelines. If they are careful, this works well.
Myself, currently I look for specific types of drafts (or new pages): ones so obviously promotional that they should be removed as soon as possible, ones so obviously notable and well sourced that they can be accepted immediately after just a check for copyvio, and ones in a field where I think I can tell whether or not the person is reasonably certain to be notable & the sources adequate--this is especially academics, but also some other types of articles where the standards are well established & I have some knowledge. Some fields I do not touch sports and popular music--in each of these I made very embarrassing errors in in my first year here.
Some articles I and any careful reviewer recognize as notable but not acceptable for other reasons, and then there's a choice of options. The basic choice is to send them back to be improved, and this is effective if you determine cleverly which are likely to be improved. Sometimes I & others fix them--there you have to be clever in knowing which an be improved quickly, because it's a tradeoff between fixing many articles a little, and doing a few completely.
Bradv, you review in a much wider number of fields than I do, & probably you have somewhat broader or at least different interests. I have looked back at a dozen or so in fields I would review myself, and we would do pretty much them same thing. As I said, that's the test, on whether in general there is consistency. It doesn't have to be exact. I'd even say it shouldn't be exact. People contributing here should be able to receive advice given in different ways that represent our range of good faith disagreements.
I apologize if I said to much earlier or elsewhere; I apologize if I'm saying too much now. DGG ( talk ) 05:18, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
Hi ::@
Bradv: I see that you have reverted the page of Sara Ali Khan from a stub to a Redirect. This is the exact explanation you had given please read
WP:NACTOR. More references don't make her more notable - wait until she meets the criteria.
Hence I went back and read the page this is what is within the first 100 words For people, the person who is the topic of a biographical article should be worthy of notice[1] or note[2]—that is, remarkable[2] or significant, interesting, or unusual enough to deserve attention or to be recorded[1] within Wikipedia as a written account of that person's life. Notable in the sense of being famous or popular—although not irrelevant—is secondary.
Well from the above Sara Ali Khan is very much "Notable in the sense of being famous or popular—although not irrelevant" she has two Movies coming this December. She is the youngest Indian Actress as lead in Two Movies in her debut month this is a historical event in Bollywood and Indian History. Her Very Instagram debut caused a massive out roar among Indian fans.
Moreover the citations are those of major media portals. If she wasn't notable personality why would she feature in so many articles. Hence I did not really understand your reason for the revert. Please let me know if I am going wrong anywhere
Hi ::@ Dlohcierekim: Just wanted to look you in this conversation. Thanks ( Purplecart ( talk) 10:17, 1 November 2018 (UTC))
Hello and hope all is well. Lawrence J. Barkwell, I feel easily passes WP:NACADEMIC, so adding the COI tag is probably unfair to the subject to have in his page. I recommend removing. Meanwhile I tagged as reviewed, since my review is mostly on notability, which I think he passes. Let me know if you disagree, please. Highly value your contributions in wiki. -- 1l2l3k ( talk) 13:48, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for reviewing 2019 in television, Bradv.
Unfortunately PRehse has just gone over this page again and unreviewed it. Their note is:
Are you sure about this - this is primarily a collection of redlinks - would have thought more blue links were required.
To reply, leave a comment on PRehse's talk page.
PRehse ( talk) 14:38, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
Hello! Your submission of Derrick Barnes at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! L293D ( ☎ • ✎) 14:54, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
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I'd appreciate any comments on User:Andrewa/Why they do not want you to use Wikipedia, either here or on its talk page. Andrewa ( talk) 13:20, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
Hi Bradv,
This is regarding /info/en/?search=Draft:Shramik_Bharti
You have rightly mentioned that a few of the references were not so worthy of mention. So I have removed them. Also, I am not connected to the organization in any capacity. As a part of my work (in real world and wikipedia), I try to bring the most human-worthy and noticeable efforts to the notice of this increasingly empathy-devoid world. In this regard, I have known Shramik Bharti's work on-ground and have met many beneficiaries whose life has been positively affected by the organization's work. And hence I decided to make a wikipedia page for them.
Please do let me know if I need to further modify the page content to meet the notice-ability criterion.
Sachsach (
talk) 11:54, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
Thank you so much for your help. I have added references and submitted it with your help. I've also applied for the name change.
Next question: how do I add photos? I know they are careful about copywrited photos, but I have some of my own. I just don't know how to add. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MauriMoore ( talk • contribs) 07:19, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
Hello, Thanks so much for your feedback on the article I am working on ( /info/en/?search=Draft:Coleman_Research_Group) - it was very helpful. I was using /info/en/?search=Catalant as an example for a company that reaches notability criteria but is not Amazon/Google/Facebook status. It looks like the sources I used are quite similar to those used for this article (Crunchbase, a press release, small mentions in major outlets, and evidence of notability through mentions in articles such as Inc's best places to work and Crain's New York). I definitely understand that on its own, the Inc Best Places to Work is not notable, however, I thought that in conjunction with the other evidence it would be. Could you help me understand the discrepancy? Thanks for your help! Accessexpertise ( talk) 13:57, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
Got it, thanks a lot for that explanation. Would you say that the Commercial Observer article qualifies as a non "in passing" mention? And would this outlet qualify as notable enough for a source? Again, really appreciate your help as I'm fairly new.
I do not have any conflict of interest with any of the articles I've been writing - I just am interested in the expert network space, and found it odd that many of the largest players in the space do not have Wikipedias. Accessexpertise ( talk) 16:58, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Leo Tolstoy. Legobot ( talk) 04:24, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
Hey there! This draft is awaiting review after pass of much times. Please re-consider review of AfC resubmission by Alex4ff. Thanks!
46.37.144.163 ( talk) 10:19, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
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Hi Bradv, that article you have proded was previously proded, in December 2016, by myself an it has never been substantially updated since then. As you know, per policy, you cant apply two prods to an article. I would suggest Afd. I will need to removed the prod at the moment. 17:30, 24 November 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scope creep ( talk • contribs) 17:30, November 24, 2018 (UTC)
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Dear Bradv,
do you recall the article about Vera King? /info/en/?search=Vera_King Because your assessment was very helpful to correct the article according to the Wikipedia requirements as an encyclopedia, I ask you politely if you would have a look at the follow up too. The follow up is about the famous Sigmund-Freud-Institut, famous because of its exceptional history in regard to Nazi-Germany and the re-foundation after WW2. The English article is more precise than the one for the German Wiki. If this article meets the high requirements of the English Wiki, the German entry should be adapted.
I would be thankful to you for your assessment of this draft /info/en/?search=Draft:Sigmund-Freud-Institut before it goes to the submission process
Best, Ruediger (rudyguy21) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rudyguy21 ( talk • contribs) 07:53, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Hello bradv, I recognized that you have had a look at the SFI entry. The correct German name is "Institut" though the anglicization "Institute" makes perfect sense to me. During the editing process, I realized that German which was once a major science language has lost much of its former influence. Proving sources might be difficult if they are published in German. I wonder if automated translation tools integrated into the Wiki system would be helpful for all and enhance the usability and acceptance of the Wikipedia as the global encyclopaedia. Since your notice, I added some 5 new references and replaced 2 existing references (refs 1 and 2) with better ones. Finally, I will add the source to ref. 12 or replace it with another source. I hope this will be helpful for the submission process. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rudyguy21 ( talk • contribs) 07:40, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
Hi, I just promoted your DYK hook to prep. You may wish to list your new Canada hook at Wikipedia:WikiProject Canada/The 10,000 Challenge/Recent additions. Yoninah ( talk) 00:07, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
Hi, Bradv! this is Don.I've seen your Comment on my Draft page and I want to say thank you for support to let me improve my Article, I'm currently a new user and I've been work hard to make better Articles and more in Future. I've made a few changes according to your comment. I would like if you can Help me with more support to Improve my (Draft) Article I would appreciate it Thank You.-- DonJovanie ( talk) 05:24, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
News and updates for administrators from the past month (November 2018).
Interface administrator changes
Hi @ Bradv:,
Thanks for taking a look at the Evotec page.
You left a note saying "COI issues, resolve in draftspace." What do you recommend as next steps?
Thank you for your help, SciJournalistNZ ( talk) 22:49, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
P.S: Here is the COI message I included with the major changes I made. (COI: Hi Editors, I have been asked to take over the editing of this page. I am a freelance science journalist. I was contracted by an Evotec consultant, but have not spoken with Evotec directly. (You were correct in that they were trying to draft it themselves). I have rewritten the article with a neutral voice and increased both the quality and quantity of the references (from 7 to 29). I'm open to any additional suggestions you have. I look forward to working with you all, Juliet.)
On 4 December 2018, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Blanket exercise, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that blankets are used to teach the history of indigenous peoples in Canada? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Blanket exercise. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page ( here's how, Blanket exercise), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
Alex Shih ( talk) 12:02, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.
You have recently shown interest in the intersection of race/ethnicity and human abilities and behaviour. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect: any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or any page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.
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wumbolo ^^^ 15:39, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
Any more anti-factual SJW agenda edits and you will be temp banned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.71.112.151 ( talk) 21:26, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
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Hi, I wonder if you can help me? I have had two warnings from another user (not an admin) for vandalising a Wikipedia page ( /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Malcolm_Kendrick). I am contesting these and, after a lot of toing and froing to establish what it is I have allegedly done, it transpires it is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Malcolm_Kendrick&diff=prev&oldid=872043666&diffmode=sourceI
This appears to show that I deleted the entire discussion and that you restored it, within a minute. Do you remember this? If so, can you remember if this was an editing conflict, or some such? I remember that it did not take my comment and sent an error message saying there was an 'editing conflict' (or words to that effect!) and that the page had "reverted". This was due to two people trying to post an edit at the same time. I thought nothing of it and simply reposted my comment. I did not at any time see a deleted page with only my comment; it was all present and correct.
You restored this page without mentioning this to me, and to my knowledge, you didn't report it or take any kind of action other than simply restoring it. This suggests it was no big deal; so I'm surmising it may have been a glitch of some kind. Can you throw any light on this? I am aware that we were on opposing sides in the Kendrick argument but I hope that you won't let this colour your judgement. There would be no earthly point to me deleting the page and I hope even if you disagreed with them, my arguments showed that I was rational and sane, not a lunatic troll who randomly deletes pages!
Many thanks for any insight you can give -- Pirate hamster ( talk) 00:27, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at [ [1]] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The discussion is about the topic Origin of the Romanians. Thank you. Iovaniorgovan ( talk) 06:51, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
On 13 December 2018, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Derrick Barnes, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Derrick Barnes, author of the award-winning children's book Crown: An Ode to the Fresh Cut, began his career as the first black male copywriter for Hallmark? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Derrick Barnes. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page ( here's how, Derrick Barnes), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
— Maile ( talk) 00:02, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Template talk:Infobox family. Legobot ( talk) 04:24, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
Sorry for probing so directly. I thought you were one of the SPI admin clerks, not just a mere mortal. -- SmokeyJoe ( talk) 02:23, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
The arbitration clerks are pleased to welcome Bradv ( talk · contribs) to the clerk team as a trainee!
The arbitration clerk team is often in need of new members, and any editor who would like to join the clerk team is welcome to apply by email to clerks-llists.wikimedia.org.
For the Arbitration Committee, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 22:31, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi Bradv. We have added you to the list of clerks and subscribed you to the mailing list (info: WP:AC/C#clerks-l). Welcome, and I look forward to working with you! To adjust your subscription options for the mailing list, see the link at mail:clerks-l. The mailing list works in the usual way, and the address to which new mailing list threads can be sent is clerks-llists.wikimedia.org. Useful reading for new clerks is the procedures page, WP:AC/C/P, but you will learn all the basic components of clerking on-the-job.
New clerks begin as a trainee, are listed as such at WP:AC/C#Personnel, and will remain so until they have learned all the aspects of the job. When you've finished training, which usually takes a couple of/a few months, then we'll propose to the Committee that you be made a full clerk. As a clerk, you'll need to check your e-mail regularly, as the mailing list is where the clerks co-ordinate ( on-wiki co-ordination page also exists but is not used nearly as much). If you've any questions at any point of your traineeship, simply post to the mailing list.
Lastly, it might be useful if you enter your timezone into WP:AC/C#Personnel (in the same format as the other members have), so that we can estimate when we will have clerks available each day; this is, of course, at your discretion. Again, welcome! Regards, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 22:31, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
You reverted my edit saying "explain why Proud Boys is a "men's group". Well, did you read the edit summary I left when I made the change? It said
phrasing is tortured and not in line with given sources which describe them respectively as "mens club", "mens group", and "mens-only group"
Is there something unclear about that? If not please undo your revert. D.Creish ( talk) 00:55, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
Hello Bradv,
This year's award for the Reviewer of the Year goes to Onel5969. Around on Wikipedia since 2011, their staggering number of 26,554 reviews over the past twelve months makes them, together with an additional total of 275,285 edits, one of Wikipedia's most prolific users.
See also the list of top 100 reviewers.
The backlog is now approaching 5,000, and still rising. There are around 640 holders of the NPR flag, most of whom appear to be inactive. The 10% of the reviewers who do 90% of the work could do with some support especially as some of them are now taking a well deserved break.
At #1 position, the Community Wishlist poll closed on 3 December with a resounding success for NPP, reminding the WMF and the volunteer communities just how critical NPP is to maintaining a clean encyclopedia and the need for improved tools to do it. A big 'thank you' to everyone who supported the NPP proposals. See the results.
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Hi, I have updated the section with references based on beginners guide. Kindly request you to review it. Thanks! /info/en/?search=Draft:Delaware_Shore — Preceding unsigned comment added by VengalK ( talk • contribs) 05:07, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
Dear bradv, dear Cassiopeia, dear DDG, though being an intensive user of the Wikipedia for many years, as a contributor, I am still a bloody rookie. Learned a lot from you three guys but obviously not enough. My request: would you please have a look at the SFI entry /info/en/?search=Draft:Sigmund_Freud_Institute in regard to its acceptance. Since my latest exchange with bradv (documented on the talk pages), I put several new references into the entry. The notability, which from my understanding & observation is a big issue in the intern Wikipedia discourses, seems to be given, alone because of the very special, fascinating history of the SFI before, during and after Hitler-Germany. Thank you for your attention, happy to hear from you.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Rudyguy21 ( talk • contribs) 18:47, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
I have initiated a discussion specifically about the redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2018 December 18#Christian. Cheers! bd2412 T 16:09, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for your recent content work that falls in the scope of the Children's Lit WikiProject. I wanted to let you know that you were recognized in our last newsletter. Happy editing and Best, Barkeep49 ( talk) 19:05, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
Peace is a state of balance and understanding in yourself and between others, where respect is gained by the acceptance of differences, tolerance persists, conflicts are resolved through dialog, peoples rights are respected and their voices are heard, and everyone is at their highest point of serenity without social tension.
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Archive 5 | ← | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | → | Archive 15 |
Bradv, Sir,
I reworked the article about Vera King (subject) based on the Wikipedia Resource "Identifying and using independent sources". The sources are mostly found on Google Scholar and Google Books and are all independent from the subject. I did not find a hint in the Wiki-resource whereas citing reliable sources like Springer Link is assessed as self-promotion. In general, scientific researches lead to publications, that is one of their purposes.
Before I send the article again to a submission I would be happy if you have a look at the status. For clarification, I include the research about the sources into this posting. I understand and endorse the endeavor to maintain the Wikipedia as a serious encyclopedy, free from self-promotion and misuse for economic purposes. The corrections live up to this objective and hopefully, the requirements are now fulfilled.
Thank you for your corrections and hints to improve the article.
1: Doesn't work; looks like a self-published biography (faculty page).
Reference: The link refers to the Sigmund-Freud-Institut, a worldwide unique and most reputed institution where the "subject" is part of the management. No self-promotion.
2, 3: Books written by the subject Research on Google Scholar: https://scholar.google.de/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=2005&sciodt=0%2C5&cites=10472637956277113320&scipsc=&q=Publication+version%3A+V.+King+%281995%29%3A+Die+Urszene+der+Psychoanalyse.+Adoleszenz+und+Geschlechterspannung+im+Fall+Dora.+Publisher+Internationale+Psychoanalyse%2FKlett-Cotta.&btnG= Reference: https://www.pep-web.org/document.php?id=PSYCHE.050F.0574A Reserach on Google Scholar: https://www.google.de/search?q=Die+Entstehung+des+Neuen+in+der+Adoleszenz.+Individuation%2C+Generativit%C3%A4t+und+Geschlecht+in+modernisierten+Gesellschaften%2C+Springer%2C+edition+from+2004%3B+1.+edition+2002%3A+Leske+und+Budrich%3B+reissue+2004+VS+Publisher&rlz=1C5CHFA_enDE575DE575&oq=Die+Entstehung+des+Neuen+in+der+Adoleszenz.+Individuation%2C+Generativit%C3%A4t+und+Geschlecht+in+modernisierten+Gesellschaften%2C+Springer%2C+edition+from+2004%3B+1.+edition+2002%3A+Leske+und+Budrich%3B+reissue+2004+VS+Publisher&aqs=chrome..69i57.1023j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 Reference: https://www.springer.com/de/book/9783322808899
4: Not linked, but by the name is a faculty page of a university Reference: Neutral source (federal department of education and science) research program which cites Vera King with link
5: Faculty page, possibly self-published Replaced by an official, administrative source which presents Vera King as a regular professor at the University of Frankfurt Reference: https://qis.server.uni-frankfurt.de/qisserver/rds?moduleCall=webInfo&personal.pid=20616&publishConfFile=webInfoPerson&publishSubDir=personal&state=verpublish&status=init&topitem=members&vmfile=no
6: Doesn't work Corrected. Didn't work due to a re-work of the website, sorry.
7 Reference Google Books: https://books.google.de/books?id=87Ge2UApx7YC&dq=Karin+Flaake,+Vera+King:+Weibliche+Adoleszenz.+Zur+Sozialisation+junger+Frauen&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiAmLqpnOrdAhXGmLQKHUrwC0kQ6AEILDAA
9, Resarch Google books: https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=Intergenerationalit%C3%A4t+%E2%80%93+theoretische+und+methodologische+Forschungsperspektiven%2C+In%3A+B%C3%B6ker+K+%26+Z%C3%B6lch+J+%28Hg.%29%3A+Intergenerationale+Qualitative+Forschung+-+Theoretische+und+methodische+Perspektiven. Reference was correct.
10: Written by the subject Source 1: Link replaced with a link to Google Books https://books.google.de/books?id=6QFlDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT158&dq=%E2%80%98Lost+in+Perfection.%E2%80%98+Impacts+of+Optimisation+on+Culture+and+Psyche.+London:+Routledge&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiMpt2vpurdAhULL1AKHdP_CFUQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=%E2%80%98Lost%20in%20Perfection.%E2%80%98%20Impacts%20of%20Optimisation%20on%20Culture%20and%20Psyche.%20London%3A%20Routledge&f=false Source 2: The source is the publication of the research results. No self-promotion.
11: Faculty page, possibly self-published Link replaced with the official research paper (pdf), No self-promotion http://www.fb03.uni-frankfurt.de/68123801/Aporias-of-Perfection_Englisch-Version1.pdf
12: Doesn't mention the subject Replaced with link to personality-page on Volkswagen Stiftung. The subject is mentioned with her academic credentials. No self-promotion. http://portal.volkswagenstiftung.de/search/personDetails.do?addrNum=31679&fromProject=93264
13: Written by the subject A research project, not written by the subject. Now with the correct link: https://www.ipu-berlin.de/hochschule/forschung/projekt/das-vermessene-leben.html. No self-promotion
14: Mentions the subject in passing The subject is leader of the research program and gives the introduction to the conference, due to the German written article. No change necessary.
15: Interview with the subject (not independent) Sorry, but the source is absolutely independent. Great interview, no self-promotion. But this repaired reference looks better.
16, Corrected link leads now to the publisher page where the subject is mentioned.
17 Corrected link where the subject is mentioned.
18: Don't mention the subject Corrected link where the subject is mentioned as part of the editorial board.
Former reference: 19, Link will be removed until adequate source is found.
Former reference: 20, Subject is mentioned by name as member of the scientific advisory board (Wissenchaftlicher Beirat), likewise all the other members. No change necessary.
Former reference: 21: Mentions the subject by name only. Former reference: Link will be removed until adequate source is found. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rudyguy21 ( talk • contribs) 07:38, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
Thank you, Bradv, for having accepted the submission Vera King, I appreciate.
We will improve the article over time.
Have a nice day,
best,
Ruediger — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rudyguy21 ( talk • contribs) 23:27, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
To Brady: this concerns your rejection of the page "Draft:Bernis von zur Muehlen." The reason you provide is: "Encyclopedia articles need to be written from a neutral point of view, and should refer to a range of independent, reliable, published sources, not just to materials produced by the creator of the subject being discussed." Perhaps you can explain more. I thought I had taken great care to document every item with third-party sources, such a published books, articles, newspaper accounts, and neutral (ie not personal) web pages of institutions. In what sense is a newspaper article, a reference, or a review, or pages in well known books something "produced by the subject being discussed?" All these are the sources that document and verify a career of some notability. I have reviewed many artist pages on Wikipedia and followed their examples. All the sources cited are, without exception, independent, reliable, and published. I am puzzled how "Art in America," or the "Washington Post" can be considered neither publications nor reliable nor independent. I believe also that not a singe statement on the draft is subjective. Certainly no conclusions or value judgment are present, although the quantity of entries--unavoidable in a long career--may be considered non-neutral. Bt that puts me in a bind. Can you clarify? Thank you. Pmuehlen ( talk) 14:53, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
I wonder if substantially reducing the amount of specific information provided on that page would constitute a positive step in the direction of acceptability. Might one, for example, simply summarize her career, citing highlights, such as exhibits in museums and other important venues, and publications, and leave all else to the list of third-party sources cited in the original? Doing so would deviate from typical detail given Wikipedia artist's pages that I have encountered, including those of many of her peers, but would be acceptable. Pmuehlen ( talk) 21:07, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
I appreciate your efforts, and I am sure it's a thankless task. But permit me to offer some counterarguments to your assessment. You write: "I'm having trouble finding any sources that cover the subject in depth (or are even about the subject). Most of the coverage seems to be in passing, and the vast majority of the sources that are/were in this article are photo credits." (Around thirty references seem to have been deleted already, but I am not sure why). First, none of the references are photo credits, which I understand to refer acknowledgments of the source of a published photograph. Such is decidedly not the case in any of the references in the article. Most of the references are published art reviews in "multiple independent periodical articles or reviews," (criterion #3 in Notability for artists) including in major newspapers, such as the New York Times and the Washington Post, either of her solo exhibits or of group exhibits in which she took part. Many of the references are anthologies in which her work has appeared. Some of the references are contextual, placing her work in a period of cultural controversy about a genre of photography in which, judging by dates and attention, she can be considered a pioneer. This alone should, I believe, qualify her for notability, in that she is "known for having contributed a significant new concept,"(item 2 in Notability for artists) namely highly controversial and much discussed photography of the male nude in the twentieth century. Regarding criterion #4 on your Notability page: "The person's work (or works) either (a) has become a significant monument, (b) has been a substantial part of a significant exhibition, (c) has won significant critical attention, or (d) is represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums," I note that (b) her work has been a substantial part of a number of significant exhibitions, including in major museums, (c) has won significant critical attention in a number of publications, and (d) is represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums. But you seem to have deleted all references to (d). Might I ask why, given that the items would support notability? I do understand (or let's say, I think I understand) that entries in Wikipedia need to meet some standards of notability. But even Wikipedia, or rather, individuals who judge entries for Wikipedia, can get this wrong. A recent famous example is that of Donna Strickland, a 2018 (female) recipient of the Nobel Prize in Physics. Might you reconsider? Pmuehlen ( talk) 13:48, 11 October 2018 (UTC) Pmuehlen ( talk) 14:05, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
An addendum: I mentioned Strickland before I learned you had been intimately involved. What a coincidence! I do like what you say in your piece explaining the case, and it helps me appreciate the issues involved. One drawback in the review process may just be a certain lack of field expertise, which may be unavoidable. In Strickland's case, it would probably have helped if the review had been by an individual more intimately familiar with her field of study, although, here I am guessing. You may, indeed be an expert in Laser Physics yourself. But, referring to an artist's page, particularly a photographer's page, I am struck that perhaps you may not be all that familiar with this particular world. Your mention that most references are mere photo credits has raised that doubt. But, again, I may be just guessing, and you may indeed be most familiar with everything involved with the arts and surrounding culture. Pmuehlen ( talk) 14:05, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
single episode of a television series) or of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews. Criteria #2 says
originating a significant new concept, theory, or technique, which I don't think you have made a case for the artist having done. They might have been part of a broader discussion/controversy, but that isn't the same thing. If there is evidence that they invented one of those things, the article needs to say that and provide reliable independent sources that say it. Criteria #4 states
substantial part of a significant exhibition,
significant critical attention,
is represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums(emphasis added). You don't need to make the case that their work has been covered extensively, you need to make the case about how they meet these specific criteria.
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14:45, 11 October 2018 (UTC)To [User:Zchrykng|zchrykng]: On the surface, what you note seems acceptable and sounds right.: Criteria #3 states: "In addition, such work must have been the primary subject of an independent and notable work (for example, a book, film, or television series, but usually not a single episode of a television series) or of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews." The relevant sentence here is: "must have been the primary subject of an independent and notable work...or of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews." The work does meet this standard. Note, the sentence in : Criteria #3 does not contain the phrase "has to be more than." Further, don't you agree that words like "substantial" and "significant" are highly qualitative terms, easily subject to subjective interpretation? So, if you require a "significant new concept, theory, or technique" in photography, then I doubt that any photographer in Wikiland can qualify. It is simply not in the nature of this art form to have such attributes, except perhaps for the appearance of daguerreotypes at the beginning of photography in the nineteenth century. You would have to delete practically all photographers' pages from Wikipedia if this is the criterion. But if you relax this criterion a bit and make allowance for "originality," which is the more relevant criterion in art, then many of the artist pages on Wikipedia do qualify, and so does,I believe, the work of Bernis von zur Muehlen. Her contributions have been noted for their originality and have also been acknowledged as being pioneering in the sense that she was among the first two or three photographers to publicly exhibit photographs of the male nude for the first time in the early seventies. Further, as mentioned before, the work IS represented in a number of PERMANENT collections in several NOTABLE galleries or museums. But those references have been deleted without explanation. Pmuehlen ( talk) 15:35, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
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Sachsach (
talk) 11:14, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
Hi Bradv,
This is regarding /info/en/?search=Draft:Shramik_Bharti
here is your comment "I suspect this may be notable, but that depends on finding better sources that cover the topic in depth and not just passing mentions. This reads like it's using a source that's not listed here for the bulk of the content -- is the author connected with the company?"
1. Please see that out of 21 different sources which I have sighted are some are the National Newspaper like The Hindu,Times of India in India. Some Magazines like India Today also have National stature. These are considered most trusted news sources here in India. 2. UNESCO sources are also mentioned. 3. Please understand that this entire article is on a social organziation which are not that media savvy and most of the times their good work receives not that much media highlight. Still the above sources mention about Shramik Bharti, which itself is a huge accomplishment. 4. I agree that some of the sources may not be btter as per wiki standards. And I will delete those if you think that will make the article more authentic as per wiki. 5. I am not connected with organization. I have been working to bring highlight to such social organizations and individuals who have devoted their life time for the betterment of world. So yes, if you consider this as a connection then I am connected to all the genuine grassroots organizations.
Hope to receive a constructive feedback from you so that we both can bring some more such important yet easily forgotten works of grassroots people.
For making your Superlinks user script display the AfC flowchart when editors visit draft pages. Brilliant idea! Enterprisey ( talk!) 23:17, 15 October 2018 (UTC) |
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Hello Bradv, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages!
As of 21 October 2018 [update], there are 3650 unreviewed articles and the backlog now stretches back 51 days.
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The Purple Barnstar | ||
Thank you for all of the work you do on Wikipedia and in AFC. I know that you recently got some negative press coverage, and I thought it was incredibly unfair that you were being attacked for following the rules and trying to work your way through backlog. While Wikipedia's poor coverage of women is a major problem, lashing out at individual editors for making good faith contributions is not the way to solve it. Anyways, thanks for continuing to keep up the good work throughout this ordeal. Spirit of Eagle ( talk) 21:27, 28 October 2018 (UTC) |
It is possible that I am a little irritable today, as a result of seeing unexpected disagreements in several different matters. I am unsure whether to follow up with citations or let the matter rest and go back to my usual course of sticking to individual article discussions. I know I am a far outlier on the GNG, but did not think I was on WP:PROF. DGG ( talk ) 05:53, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
I agree with DGG's assessment, but I want to point out that almost all drafts about academics get rejected at AfC for notablitly at least once, if not multiple times. It is not obvious that this group of people would have their own criteria for notability. Only a handful of reviewers know about or understand WP:PROF. If we don't see them they don't get accepted. When the issue came up after the Nobel announcement I felt very guilty for getting mad about women's issues on Wikipedia and taking three months off at just the wrong time (and not doing much since). I often went through rejected AfCs looking for academics. So I want to apologize to you for not being there in the spring. And it was just bad luck that you were the reviewer who rejected it. Someone else would have rejected it too. StarryGrandma ( talk) 18:40, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
I will send these back at least once for revision, in the hope that somebody will actually fix them— that's precisely what I did. It was a poorly sourced BLP created by a single-purpose account. I've explained all this already, so your comment that the decline was erroneous still requires explanation. Brad v 19:36, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
highly selective and prestigious scholarly society or association", nor does a visit to that article give one that impression. Regardless, notability requires verification, so the claim still needed be supported by independent sources, which is why I sent it back. I am repeating myself now, so please read the essay. Brad v 20:14, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
a fellow of a major scholarly society which reserves fellow status as a highly selective honor. As a physicist I find it strange you would think The Optical Society isn't a major scholarly society. The draft also said at that point she had been president of the society, criteria #6. The explanation is that the decline did not understand that she met WP:PROF, WP:PROF needs to be clearer about sources, and most editors would have done what you did. StarryGrandma ( talk) 20:48, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
This article's status was inquired about in IRC help tonight. I don't normally act on such help requests but given the interest in this area right now I'm making an exception. I presume notability because of the Royal Fellowship and so it feels like a good chance for someone interested in the area to take it the rest of the way now that the CV elements that caused DGG's original decline have been somewhat improved and the editor is still clearly interested in the subject. This is not an area of interest or expertise for me so I am not the right person to WP:SOFIXIT; I had been thinking about the right place to post this and it seems in light of the discussion above this might be it? Best, Barkeep49 ( talk) 04:57, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
yes, its improved, tho it still reads somewhat too much like a CV. It can be fixed further in article space. Though usually a different person should review (especially if its going to be another decline) , I accepted it myself, and will remove some duplication. DGG ( talk ) 05:18, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
There are many different ways to review AfCs and do it well. (or NPP, which is essentially similar) We should try to get reasonably consistent results, but that doesn't mean we all do it the same way, or that any of us always does it in one particular way.
The way to get consistent results is to check each others' reviews. The system is set up to show them when we review what someone else has previously reviewed, and we also see them when there's a disagreement and an article goes to AfD or Deletion Review. Most of us occasionally look at others, and not only when we think something wrong. We work openly, and in fact I was explicit in asking to be an admin that my main purpose was to check others' work. If I improve my own, it's because others them, and say so when they would do differently.
Most people seem to deal with drafts (or articles) in sequence, and consequently often find themselves dealing with articles where they might not immediate recognize what is or is not likely to be notable, and rely on strict following of the notability & other guidelines. If they are careful, this works well.
Myself, currently I look for specific types of drafts (or new pages): ones so obviously promotional that they should be removed as soon as possible, ones so obviously notable and well sourced that they can be accepted immediately after just a check for copyvio, and ones in a field where I think I can tell whether or not the person is reasonably certain to be notable & the sources adequate--this is especially academics, but also some other types of articles where the standards are well established & I have some knowledge. Some fields I do not touch sports and popular music--in each of these I made very embarrassing errors in in my first year here.
Some articles I and any careful reviewer recognize as notable but not acceptable for other reasons, and then there's a choice of options. The basic choice is to send them back to be improved, and this is effective if you determine cleverly which are likely to be improved. Sometimes I & others fix them--there you have to be clever in knowing which an be improved quickly, because it's a tradeoff between fixing many articles a little, and doing a few completely.
Bradv, you review in a much wider number of fields than I do, & probably you have somewhat broader or at least different interests. I have looked back at a dozen or so in fields I would review myself, and we would do pretty much them same thing. As I said, that's the test, on whether in general there is consistency. It doesn't have to be exact. I'd even say it shouldn't be exact. People contributing here should be able to receive advice given in different ways that represent our range of good faith disagreements.
I apologize if I said to much earlier or elsewhere; I apologize if I'm saying too much now. DGG ( talk ) 05:18, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
Hi ::@
Bradv: I see that you have reverted the page of Sara Ali Khan from a stub to a Redirect. This is the exact explanation you had given please read
WP:NACTOR. More references don't make her more notable - wait until she meets the criteria.
Hence I went back and read the page this is what is within the first 100 words For people, the person who is the topic of a biographical article should be worthy of notice[1] or note[2]—that is, remarkable[2] or significant, interesting, or unusual enough to deserve attention or to be recorded[1] within Wikipedia as a written account of that person's life. Notable in the sense of being famous or popular—although not irrelevant—is secondary.
Well from the above Sara Ali Khan is very much "Notable in the sense of being famous or popular—although not irrelevant" she has two Movies coming this December. She is the youngest Indian Actress as lead in Two Movies in her debut month this is a historical event in Bollywood and Indian History. Her Very Instagram debut caused a massive out roar among Indian fans.
Moreover the citations are those of major media portals. If she wasn't notable personality why would she feature in so many articles. Hence I did not really understand your reason for the revert. Please let me know if I am going wrong anywhere
Hi ::@ Dlohcierekim: Just wanted to look you in this conversation. Thanks ( Purplecart ( talk) 10:17, 1 November 2018 (UTC))
Hello and hope all is well. Lawrence J. Barkwell, I feel easily passes WP:NACADEMIC, so adding the COI tag is probably unfair to the subject to have in his page. I recommend removing. Meanwhile I tagged as reviewed, since my review is mostly on notability, which I think he passes. Let me know if you disagree, please. Highly value your contributions in wiki. -- 1l2l3k ( talk) 13:48, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for reviewing 2019 in television, Bradv.
Unfortunately PRehse has just gone over this page again and unreviewed it. Their note is:
Are you sure about this - this is primarily a collection of redlinks - would have thought more blue links were required.
To reply, leave a comment on PRehse's talk page.
PRehse ( talk) 14:38, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
Hello! Your submission of Derrick Barnes at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! L293D ( ☎ • ✎) 14:54, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
News and updates for administrators from the past month (October 2018).
I'd appreciate any comments on User:Andrewa/Why they do not want you to use Wikipedia, either here or on its talk page. Andrewa ( talk) 13:20, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
Hi Bradv,
This is regarding /info/en/?search=Draft:Shramik_Bharti
You have rightly mentioned that a few of the references were not so worthy of mention. So I have removed them. Also, I am not connected to the organization in any capacity. As a part of my work (in real world and wikipedia), I try to bring the most human-worthy and noticeable efforts to the notice of this increasingly empathy-devoid world. In this regard, I have known Shramik Bharti's work on-ground and have met many beneficiaries whose life has been positively affected by the organization's work. And hence I decided to make a wikipedia page for them.
Please do let me know if I need to further modify the page content to meet the notice-ability criterion.
Sachsach (
talk) 11:54, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
Thank you so much for your help. I have added references and submitted it with your help. I've also applied for the name change.
Next question: how do I add photos? I know they are careful about copywrited photos, but I have some of my own. I just don't know how to add. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MauriMoore ( talk • contribs) 07:19, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
Hello, Thanks so much for your feedback on the article I am working on ( /info/en/?search=Draft:Coleman_Research_Group) - it was very helpful. I was using /info/en/?search=Catalant as an example for a company that reaches notability criteria but is not Amazon/Google/Facebook status. It looks like the sources I used are quite similar to those used for this article (Crunchbase, a press release, small mentions in major outlets, and evidence of notability through mentions in articles such as Inc's best places to work and Crain's New York). I definitely understand that on its own, the Inc Best Places to Work is not notable, however, I thought that in conjunction with the other evidence it would be. Could you help me understand the discrepancy? Thanks for your help! Accessexpertise ( talk) 13:57, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
Got it, thanks a lot for that explanation. Would you say that the Commercial Observer article qualifies as a non "in passing" mention? And would this outlet qualify as notable enough for a source? Again, really appreciate your help as I'm fairly new.
I do not have any conflict of interest with any of the articles I've been writing - I just am interested in the expert network space, and found it odd that many of the largest players in the space do not have Wikipedias. Accessexpertise ( talk) 16:58, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Leo Tolstoy. Legobot ( talk) 04:24, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
Hey there! This draft is awaiting review after pass of much times. Please re-consider review of AfC resubmission by Alex4ff. Thanks!
46.37.144.163 ( talk) 10:19, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
Chart of the New Pages Patrol backlog for the past 6 months. |
Hello Bradv,
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Hi Bradv, that article you have proded was previously proded, in December 2016, by myself an it has never been substantially updated since then. As you know, per policy, you cant apply two prods to an article. I would suggest Afd. I will need to removed the prod at the moment. 17:30, 24 November 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scope creep ( talk • contribs) 17:30, November 24, 2018 (UTC)
The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Jackie Walker (activist). Legobot ( talk) 04:25, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
Dear Bradv,
do you recall the article about Vera King? /info/en/?search=Vera_King Because your assessment was very helpful to correct the article according to the Wikipedia requirements as an encyclopedia, I ask you politely if you would have a look at the follow up too. The follow up is about the famous Sigmund-Freud-Institut, famous because of its exceptional history in regard to Nazi-Germany and the re-foundation after WW2. The English article is more precise than the one for the German Wiki. If this article meets the high requirements of the English Wiki, the German entry should be adapted.
I would be thankful to you for your assessment of this draft /info/en/?search=Draft:Sigmund-Freud-Institut before it goes to the submission process
Best, Ruediger (rudyguy21) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rudyguy21 ( talk • contribs) 07:53, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Hello bradv, I recognized that you have had a look at the SFI entry. The correct German name is "Institut" though the anglicization "Institute" makes perfect sense to me. During the editing process, I realized that German which was once a major science language has lost much of its former influence. Proving sources might be difficult if they are published in German. I wonder if automated translation tools integrated into the Wiki system would be helpful for all and enhance the usability and acceptance of the Wikipedia as the global encyclopaedia. Since your notice, I added some 5 new references and replaced 2 existing references (refs 1 and 2) with better ones. Finally, I will add the source to ref. 12 or replace it with another source. I hope this will be helpful for the submission process. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rudyguy21 ( talk • contribs) 07:40, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
Hi, I just promoted your DYK hook to prep. You may wish to list your new Canada hook at Wikipedia:WikiProject Canada/The 10,000 Challenge/Recent additions. Yoninah ( talk) 00:07, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
Hi, Bradv! this is Don.I've seen your Comment on my Draft page and I want to say thank you for support to let me improve my Article, I'm currently a new user and I've been work hard to make better Articles and more in Future. I've made a few changes according to your comment. I would like if you can Help me with more support to Improve my (Draft) Article I would appreciate it Thank You.-- DonJovanie ( talk) 05:24, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
News and updates for administrators from the past month (November 2018).
Interface administrator changes
Hi @ Bradv:,
Thanks for taking a look at the Evotec page.
You left a note saying "COI issues, resolve in draftspace." What do you recommend as next steps?
Thank you for your help, SciJournalistNZ ( talk) 22:49, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
P.S: Here is the COI message I included with the major changes I made. (COI: Hi Editors, I have been asked to take over the editing of this page. I am a freelance science journalist. I was contracted by an Evotec consultant, but have not spoken with Evotec directly. (You were correct in that they were trying to draft it themselves). I have rewritten the article with a neutral voice and increased both the quality and quantity of the references (from 7 to 29). I'm open to any additional suggestions you have. I look forward to working with you all, Juliet.)
On 4 December 2018, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Blanket exercise, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that blankets are used to teach the history of indigenous peoples in Canada? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Blanket exercise. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page ( here's how, Blanket exercise), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
Alex Shih ( talk) 12:02, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
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You have recently shown interest in the intersection of race/ethnicity and human abilities and behaviour. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect: any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or any page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.
For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.
wumbolo ^^^ 15:39, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
Any more anti-factual SJW agenda edits and you will be temp banned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.71.112.151 ( talk) 21:26, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution. Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you! Rush922 (talk) 12:15, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi, I wonder if you can help me? I have had two warnings from another user (not an admin) for vandalising a Wikipedia page ( /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Malcolm_Kendrick). I am contesting these and, after a lot of toing and froing to establish what it is I have allegedly done, it transpires it is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Malcolm_Kendrick&diff=prev&oldid=872043666&diffmode=sourceI
This appears to show that I deleted the entire discussion and that you restored it, within a minute. Do you remember this? If so, can you remember if this was an editing conflict, or some such? I remember that it did not take my comment and sent an error message saying there was an 'editing conflict' (or words to that effect!) and that the page had "reverted". This was due to two people trying to post an edit at the same time. I thought nothing of it and simply reposted my comment. I did not at any time see a deleted page with only my comment; it was all present and correct.
You restored this page without mentioning this to me, and to my knowledge, you didn't report it or take any kind of action other than simply restoring it. This suggests it was no big deal; so I'm surmising it may have been a glitch of some kind. Can you throw any light on this? I am aware that we were on opposing sides in the Kendrick argument but I hope that you won't let this colour your judgement. There would be no earthly point to me deleting the page and I hope even if you disagreed with them, my arguments showed that I was rational and sane, not a lunatic troll who randomly deletes pages!
Many thanks for any insight you can give -- Pirate hamster ( talk) 00:27, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at [ [1]] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The discussion is about the topic Origin of the Romanians. Thank you. Iovaniorgovan ( talk) 06:51, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
On 13 December 2018, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Derrick Barnes, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Derrick Barnes, author of the award-winning children's book Crown: An Ode to the Fresh Cut, began his career as the first black male copywriter for Hallmark? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Derrick Barnes. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page ( here's how, Derrick Barnes), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
— Maile ( talk) 00:02, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Template talk:Infobox family. Legobot ( talk) 04:24, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
Sorry for probing so directly. I thought you were one of the SPI admin clerks, not just a mere mortal. -- SmokeyJoe ( talk) 02:23, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
The arbitration clerks are pleased to welcome Bradv ( talk · contribs) to the clerk team as a trainee!
The arbitration clerk team is often in need of new members, and any editor who would like to join the clerk team is welcome to apply by email to clerks-llists.wikimedia.org.
For the Arbitration Committee, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 22:31, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi Bradv. We have added you to the list of clerks and subscribed you to the mailing list (info: WP:AC/C#clerks-l). Welcome, and I look forward to working with you! To adjust your subscription options for the mailing list, see the link at mail:clerks-l. The mailing list works in the usual way, and the address to which new mailing list threads can be sent is clerks-llists.wikimedia.org. Useful reading for new clerks is the procedures page, WP:AC/C/P, but you will learn all the basic components of clerking on-the-job.
New clerks begin as a trainee, are listed as such at WP:AC/C#Personnel, and will remain so until they have learned all the aspects of the job. When you've finished training, which usually takes a couple of/a few months, then we'll propose to the Committee that you be made a full clerk. As a clerk, you'll need to check your e-mail regularly, as the mailing list is where the clerks co-ordinate ( on-wiki co-ordination page also exists but is not used nearly as much). If you've any questions at any point of your traineeship, simply post to the mailing list.
Lastly, it might be useful if you enter your timezone into WP:AC/C#Personnel (in the same format as the other members have), so that we can estimate when we will have clerks available each day; this is, of course, at your discretion. Again, welcome! Regards, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 22:31, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
You reverted my edit saying "explain why Proud Boys is a "men's group". Well, did you read the edit summary I left when I made the change? It said
phrasing is tortured and not in line with given sources which describe them respectively as "mens club", "mens group", and "mens-only group"
Is there something unclear about that? If not please undo your revert. D.Creish ( talk) 00:55, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
Hello Bradv,
This year's award for the Reviewer of the Year goes to Onel5969. Around on Wikipedia since 2011, their staggering number of 26,554 reviews over the past twelve months makes them, together with an additional total of 275,285 edits, one of Wikipedia's most prolific users.
See also the list of top 100 reviewers.
The backlog is now approaching 5,000, and still rising. There are around 640 holders of the NPR flag, most of whom appear to be inactive. The 10% of the reviewers who do 90% of the work could do with some support especially as some of them are now taking a well deserved break.
At #1 position, the Community Wishlist poll closed on 3 December with a resounding success for NPP, reminding the WMF and the volunteer communities just how critical NPP is to maintaining a clean encyclopedia and the need for improved tools to do it. A big 'thank you' to everyone who supported the NPP proposals. See the results.
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MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 21:14, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi, I have updated the section with references based on beginners guide. Kindly request you to review it. Thanks! /info/en/?search=Draft:Delaware_Shore — Preceding unsigned comment added by VengalK ( talk • contribs) 05:07, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
Dear bradv, dear Cassiopeia, dear DDG, though being an intensive user of the Wikipedia for many years, as a contributor, I am still a bloody rookie. Learned a lot from you three guys but obviously not enough. My request: would you please have a look at the SFI entry /info/en/?search=Draft:Sigmund_Freud_Institute in regard to its acceptance. Since my latest exchange with bradv (documented on the talk pages), I put several new references into the entry. The notability, which from my understanding & observation is a big issue in the intern Wikipedia discourses, seems to be given, alone because of the very special, fascinating history of the SFI before, during and after Hitler-Germany. Thank you for your attention, happy to hear from you.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Rudyguy21 ( talk • contribs) 18:47, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
I have initiated a discussion specifically about the redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2018 December 18#Christian. Cheers! bd2412 T 16:09, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for your recent content work that falls in the scope of the Children's Lit WikiProject. I wanted to let you know that you were recognized in our last newsletter. Happy editing and Best, Barkeep49 ( talk) 19:05, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
Peace is a state of balance and understanding in yourself and between others, where respect is gained by the acceptance of differences, tolerance persists, conflicts are resolved through dialog, peoples rights are respected and their voices are heard, and everyone is at their highest point of serenity without social tension.