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A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Sexuality of Frédéric Chopin. The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 March 23#Sexuality of Frédéric Chopin until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
Smerus (
talk)
15:51, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
I've created an enhanced version of Bisson's photograph of Chopin (1849) with state-of-the-art technology and uploaded it to Wikimedia. It features highly improved textures and details as well as a slight colorization.
> Please investigate and discuss the potential usage in Chopin's article.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric_Chopin_1849.jpg
TheClassicalMusicGuy ( talk) 20:40, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi SPECIFICO. I am no Schenkerian, certainly; and Kallberg's notion about this doesn't have to be in the article by any means. But question of the of the revaluation of some of Chopin's music in the 20th century by dint of performances including those of Rubinstein might I think be reasonably touched on here - I am not sure I appreciate why you think this should not be so. It's not about Rubinstein's reminiscences, as you seem to imply; Kallman cites Rubinstein as an example of the way in which Chopin's nocturnes re-entered the virtuoso repertoire. If you have other sources giving others who drove this revaluation, buy all means add and cite them. Best, -- Smerus ( talk) 21:23, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
In perhaps the most interesting section of his book Rosen shows that Chopin – routinely thought of as a swooning, ‘inspired’, small-scale salon composer whose music is basically ‘effeminate’ – is in fact an ingenious contrapuntalist of the most extreme sort, a musician whose affecting surfaces conceal a discipline in planning, polyphony and sheer harmonic creativity, a composer whose only real rival in the end was someone as different and as grand as Wagner.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Should we mention Chopin's nationality as Polish or Polish-French? A debate on this has been simmering on for sometime now.
As consensus has and will always change, here are some solutions which are being considered for proposal:
Please weigh-in, indicating the solution(s) you support using the example format below. Include a brief explanation of your rationale. Or, alternatively, if you have some idea which hasn't previously been put forward, please let us know!
Example format
Thanks everyone for the suggestions/comments/opinions in advance!
Please note that this RfC should not be construed as a vote rather than an attempt to measure consensus. As always let's keep the conversations at a civilized level and focus completely on content, not contributors or their motives.
"...not superseded by other policies or guidelines, or by editors' consensus. 2Awwsome Tell me where I screwed up. See where I screwed up 17:07, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
I make the following compromise proposal (F) for the lead, in view of comments above: "was a Romantic-era Polish composer, who spent most of his mature career in France." I believe that this statement is compatible with all recognised authorities. The detail (e.g. his father, his exile, his passport, etc.) is already covered in the text of the article. -- Smerus ( talk) 21:18, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
This RfC has been around for three days now, I'd like to ask that it be closed if it doesn't last for more than a couple of days or so. By my reading, option A seemed to garner the most support, with D coming in second, and C/E coming in last place.
Though there seems to be some off-topic arguing between a couple of users, I hope this is a clear consensus that satisfies all parties. There is no hurry, but does anyone have thoughts about this? Lord Sjones23 ( talk - contributions) 23:45, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
Smerus, I saw you were beginning to standardize the format of the bibliography, so I added to the endeavor [5] as I had already begun to do so in my sandbox the day earlier [6]. In looking at the sources, I'm not sure about the Chen ref; written by an non-notable performer (Shu-fen Viola Chen—who doesn't even have a Wikipedia page), and published by the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, who don't exactly seem first-class. Also, if your future intentions include converting refs to sfn for ease of access by readers, let me know and I will attempt to assist in such an approach—in light of what we did at Fanny. Aza24 ( talk) 18:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
I am seeking to tidy up the article and submit it to Featured Article Review. I have added the following text to section 1.1.2, which I believe is accurate and non-contentious. The issue has been raised by many of Chopin's biographers over the past 20 years or so - it is not a novelty (despite the fuss some editors made of it in recent discussion) and Walker's conclusion represents the consensus of writers including Zamoyski, Kallberg, etc. But I would appreciate and will of course respect comments.
Letters from Chopin to Woyciechowski in the period 1829–30 (when Chopin was about twenty) contain erotic references to dreams and to offered kisses and embraces. Chopin's biographer Alan Walker considers that, insofar as such expressions could be perceived as homosexual in nature, they would not denote more than a passing phase in Chopin's life.{{sfn|Walker|2018|pp=109-110}}
--
Smerus (
talk)
18:09, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
I have added a note with direct quotes. Nihil novi, be careful to read my prose accurately. I do not speak of the "szkaradny sen" as erotic, I write of "erotic references to dreams". E.g. Chopin writes to Titus "Today you will dream that you are embracing me!". You will find numerous extracts from the letters to Titus in Walker pp. 157-8 (as well of course as elsewhere in editions of Chopin's letters, etc.). There is no point in seeking to evade this issue in comments on Chopin's life. If an authority like Walker devotes 3 pages to discussing it, it cannot be rated as UNDUE. I am against erasure of any sort, and so is WP.-- Smerus ( talk) 09:23, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
I regret Crossroads that you have the wrong end of the stick here. The RfC was about whether there should be a separate section on sexuality. It was not about censorship of opinion or reputable sources. In no way does the text you have deleted (and which I have now restored) say that Chopin was bisexual - if you wish to make a case please base it on actuality. Other biographers do not, as you claim, 'ignore' the issue - all reputable contemporary biographers (Walker, Zamoyski, Azoury) cover this issue - all of them conclude, as does Walker, that it must remain an open question. Niecks who has been dead over a century does not address the issue explicitly - he wouldn't given the time he lived in - and does not as you claim give any 'caution' relating to it. Zamoyski's conclusion is open-ended - as is Walker's. You may not like what the reputable authorities say, but that is tough - WP is here to report what they say. If you find a reputable authority who says that there was no way that Chopin ever had any non-heterosexual impulses, let me know and I will be very glad to include it. In the meantime please refrain from wholesale deletion whilst this thread is open for comment and discussion.
Thank you however for pointing out that in the turmoil over recent months, Gładkowska has not been restored. You are absolutely 100% correct in pointing this out and I have added her to the text (in the outturn with rather more coverage than Titus). -- Smerus ( talk) 18:48, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
Smerus, I find Crossroads' arguments cogent and NPOV. Until you restored her just now, Konstancja Gładkowska got written out of Chopin's life, though according to Zamoyski they corresponded for a year after he left Warsaw. According to Zamoyski, also, Chopin's epistolary expressions of affection for Tytus Woyciechowski "carry no greater implication than 'love' concluding letters today." Crossroads makes a valid point, bolstered by evidence in your own 26 December 2020 texts: "Either [Chopin's] sexuality is ignored entirely (my preference) or it gets a balanced treatment." Nihil novi ( talk) 19:49, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
Nihil novi, any argument that suggests, without justification, the deletion of the opinions of reputable sources, is itself a clear WP:NNPOV. As you are very well aware, the questions are not about Chopin's expressions of affection to Titus, but about the other more explicit comments in the letters. I have no more wish to discuss these explicitly than you do, that would undoubtedly be WP:UNDUE. I be;eive the treatment I have given them in the text is appropriate and proportionate according to the authorities. I repeat the request I made above - if you have any reputable sources that contest what is said about Chopin, Titus (or Gladkowska for that matter), in this section, please let me know and I will be glad to include them.-- Smerus ( talk) 19:57, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
The RfC was about whether there should be a separate section on sexuality.No, it is very clearly about how, if at all, such material should be included, not a mere technicality like if it should have a heading, and was spurred on by a POV pusher whom you appear to be surrendering to for no reason.
It was not about censorship- removing UNDUE and POV text is not censorship.
In no way does the text you have deleted (and which I have now restored) say that Chopin was bisexual- a statement that he was attracted to a male friend implies just that (since sexual orientation isn't a "phase") and is the very matter which we just overcame POV pushing about.
all reputable contemporary biographers (Walker, Zamoyski, Azoury) cover this issue - all of them conclude, as does Walker, that it must remain an open question.As noted above, Zamoyski states it carries no special implication. Does Azoury say it definitely was sexual feelings and towards Woyciechowski?
You may not like what the reputable authorities say, but that is tough - WP is here to report what they say....any argument that suggests, without justification, the deletion of the opinions of reputable sources, is itself a clear WP:NNPOV- not about me. What I don't like is WP:UNDUE WP:ADVOCACY material which we just got done spending tons of time overruling, but which has returned from the dead for some reason. And we do exclude sourced material if it is WP:UNDUE.
If you find a reputable authority who says that there was no way that Chopin ever had any non-heterosexual impulses- you're asking me to find a source proving a negative, which is impossible. If it was due that Chopin was non-heterosexual than I am all for it. But this sort of cherry-picked source speculating this or that historical person is gay or bisexual is not encyclopedic material. I think this has ended up being an end-run around the RfC above which found no consensus for any of this 'was he sexually interested in Woyciechowski?' material. We should be respecting that and the enormous amount of time sunk into it. It should only be added if there is a clear consensus for it, per WP:ONUS, and for NPOV would need to include Zamoyski's clarification and possibly Niecks' view from your draft as well. But I prefer not to cover that question at all per the RfC finding no consensus for change; we should stick to known and due facts, not speculations. Crossroads -talk- 20:33, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
I have full-protected the article for 24 hours. I will unprotect if I can see a clear agreement on how to proceed on the Woyciechowski-related content under dispute. MelanieN, this has (as a consequence of full protection) over-ridden your semi-protection placed because of vandalism, which means it will need to be re-applied when this protection expires. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 21:42, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
Hello. I'm wondering why this article's main title is Frederic Chopin. Chopin's name was Fryderyk, as he was a Pole, born and raised in Poland of polish mother (and french father, as a matter of fact) and polish was His native language. Is there a rational explanation to that? Thank you. 5.173.2.177 ( talk) 12:27, 28 May 2021 (UTC)Maciek
Perhaps we could/should have a permanent link to the very extensive discussion we had concerning Chopin's sexuality: Talk:Frédéric_Chopin/Archive_23. - kosboot ( talk) 12:14, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
I propose to merge Emilia Chopin into Frédéric Chopin. I think that the relevant content in the Emilia article, which is slight, can easily be explained in the context of Frédéric, and the Frédéric article is of a reasonable size that the merging of Emilia will not cause any problems as far as article size is concerned. It should be noted that there is no way that Emilia, who died at the age of 14, meets the criteria of WP:NOTABLE. She appears to have a separate article only because of her brother.-- Smerus ( talk) 13:06, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
It kind of surprises me not to see any mention of that, but since there was some debate about this in Polish sources in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, it seems surprising not to mention the Polonised spelling as a possibility. It after all is the one Norwid used for his poem Chopin's Piano (Fortepian Szopena). I'd suggest to add a note saying "His surname is occasionally given the polonised spelling Szopen in Polish sources."
A couple of Polish linguistic sources confirming that the spelling is still considered OK in contemporary usage, though rarer: University of Zielona Góra, PWN. In the PWN encyclopedia both forms of his surname are given up front. Double sharp ( talk) 14:43, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
Mówią, że się Szopen z Marią Wodzińską, a niegdyś moją Marią ożenił.... I can find this one on Google Books: seems they changed the orthography for Maria, but not for Szopen. So at least it is probably contemporary to his time.
Chopin jest jednym z tych nazwisk, które w języku polskim posiadają wersję wariantywną. Możemy zatem wykorzystywać obie formy – zarówno Chopin, jak i spolszczone Szopen. Brak takiej możliwości budziłby zapewne wątpliwości zważywszy na fakt, że Fryderyk Chopin był wybitnym pianistą i kompozytorem polskiego pochodzenia.The Sz spelling is also on some street names in Poland. That's why I think that it's reasonable that the reader would want to know something about this spelling and if it's documentarily justified or not. Hence the note I had in mind was not a bald-faced "or Szopen" or something like that, but rather "Polish-language writers occasionally use the polonised spelling Szopen". Given Słowacki, perhaps it should even be "Polish-language writers from Chopin's time to now have sometimes used the polonised spelling Szopen, but there is no evidence that the composer or his family ever used it". Double sharp ( talk) 22:15, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
In Alan Walker's recent biography of Chopin, there's a relevant paragraph on the use of Szopen in the chapter on Maria Wodzińska, which refers to her letter of September 1835, from Dresden.
Commentary like this, from an English-language WP:RS like Walker, are helpful (possibly as a source for a footnote). Mathsci ( talk) 12:44, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 20 | ← | Archive 22 | Archive 23 | Archive 24 | Archive 25 | Archive 26 |
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Sexuality of Frédéric Chopin. The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 March 23#Sexuality of Frédéric Chopin until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
Smerus (
talk)
15:51, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
I've created an enhanced version of Bisson's photograph of Chopin (1849) with state-of-the-art technology and uploaded it to Wikimedia. It features highly improved textures and details as well as a slight colorization.
> Please investigate and discuss the potential usage in Chopin's article.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric_Chopin_1849.jpg
TheClassicalMusicGuy ( talk) 20:40, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi SPECIFICO. I am no Schenkerian, certainly; and Kallberg's notion about this doesn't have to be in the article by any means. But question of the of the revaluation of some of Chopin's music in the 20th century by dint of performances including those of Rubinstein might I think be reasonably touched on here - I am not sure I appreciate why you think this should not be so. It's not about Rubinstein's reminiscences, as you seem to imply; Kallman cites Rubinstein as an example of the way in which Chopin's nocturnes re-entered the virtuoso repertoire. If you have other sources giving others who drove this revaluation, buy all means add and cite them. Best, -- Smerus ( talk) 21:23, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
In perhaps the most interesting section of his book Rosen shows that Chopin – routinely thought of as a swooning, ‘inspired’, small-scale salon composer whose music is basically ‘effeminate’ – is in fact an ingenious contrapuntalist of the most extreme sort, a musician whose affecting surfaces conceal a discipline in planning, polyphony and sheer harmonic creativity, a composer whose only real rival in the end was someone as different and as grand as Wagner.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Should we mention Chopin's nationality as Polish or Polish-French? A debate on this has been simmering on for sometime now.
As consensus has and will always change, here are some solutions which are being considered for proposal:
Please weigh-in, indicating the solution(s) you support using the example format below. Include a brief explanation of your rationale. Or, alternatively, if you have some idea which hasn't previously been put forward, please let us know!
Example format
Thanks everyone for the suggestions/comments/opinions in advance!
Please note that this RfC should not be construed as a vote rather than an attempt to measure consensus. As always let's keep the conversations at a civilized level and focus completely on content, not contributors or their motives.
"...not superseded by other policies or guidelines, or by editors' consensus. 2Awwsome Tell me where I screwed up. See where I screwed up 17:07, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
I make the following compromise proposal (F) for the lead, in view of comments above: "was a Romantic-era Polish composer, who spent most of his mature career in France." I believe that this statement is compatible with all recognised authorities. The detail (e.g. his father, his exile, his passport, etc.) is already covered in the text of the article. -- Smerus ( talk) 21:18, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
This RfC has been around for three days now, I'd like to ask that it be closed if it doesn't last for more than a couple of days or so. By my reading, option A seemed to garner the most support, with D coming in second, and C/E coming in last place.
Though there seems to be some off-topic arguing between a couple of users, I hope this is a clear consensus that satisfies all parties. There is no hurry, but does anyone have thoughts about this? Lord Sjones23 ( talk - contributions) 23:45, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
Smerus, I saw you were beginning to standardize the format of the bibliography, so I added to the endeavor [5] as I had already begun to do so in my sandbox the day earlier [6]. In looking at the sources, I'm not sure about the Chen ref; written by an non-notable performer (Shu-fen Viola Chen—who doesn't even have a Wikipedia page), and published by the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, who don't exactly seem first-class. Also, if your future intentions include converting refs to sfn for ease of access by readers, let me know and I will attempt to assist in such an approach—in light of what we did at Fanny. Aza24 ( talk) 18:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
I am seeking to tidy up the article and submit it to Featured Article Review. I have added the following text to section 1.1.2, which I believe is accurate and non-contentious. The issue has been raised by many of Chopin's biographers over the past 20 years or so - it is not a novelty (despite the fuss some editors made of it in recent discussion) and Walker's conclusion represents the consensus of writers including Zamoyski, Kallberg, etc. But I would appreciate and will of course respect comments.
Letters from Chopin to Woyciechowski in the period 1829–30 (when Chopin was about twenty) contain erotic references to dreams and to offered kisses and embraces. Chopin's biographer Alan Walker considers that, insofar as such expressions could be perceived as homosexual in nature, they would not denote more than a passing phase in Chopin's life.{{sfn|Walker|2018|pp=109-110}}
--
Smerus (
talk)
18:09, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
I have added a note with direct quotes. Nihil novi, be careful to read my prose accurately. I do not speak of the "szkaradny sen" as erotic, I write of "erotic references to dreams". E.g. Chopin writes to Titus "Today you will dream that you are embracing me!". You will find numerous extracts from the letters to Titus in Walker pp. 157-8 (as well of course as elsewhere in editions of Chopin's letters, etc.). There is no point in seeking to evade this issue in comments on Chopin's life. If an authority like Walker devotes 3 pages to discussing it, it cannot be rated as UNDUE. I am against erasure of any sort, and so is WP.-- Smerus ( talk) 09:23, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
I regret Crossroads that you have the wrong end of the stick here. The RfC was about whether there should be a separate section on sexuality. It was not about censorship of opinion or reputable sources. In no way does the text you have deleted (and which I have now restored) say that Chopin was bisexual - if you wish to make a case please base it on actuality. Other biographers do not, as you claim, 'ignore' the issue - all reputable contemporary biographers (Walker, Zamoyski, Azoury) cover this issue - all of them conclude, as does Walker, that it must remain an open question. Niecks who has been dead over a century does not address the issue explicitly - he wouldn't given the time he lived in - and does not as you claim give any 'caution' relating to it. Zamoyski's conclusion is open-ended - as is Walker's. You may not like what the reputable authorities say, but that is tough - WP is here to report what they say. If you find a reputable authority who says that there was no way that Chopin ever had any non-heterosexual impulses, let me know and I will be very glad to include it. In the meantime please refrain from wholesale deletion whilst this thread is open for comment and discussion.
Thank you however for pointing out that in the turmoil over recent months, Gładkowska has not been restored. You are absolutely 100% correct in pointing this out and I have added her to the text (in the outturn with rather more coverage than Titus). -- Smerus ( talk) 18:48, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
Smerus, I find Crossroads' arguments cogent and NPOV. Until you restored her just now, Konstancja Gładkowska got written out of Chopin's life, though according to Zamoyski they corresponded for a year after he left Warsaw. According to Zamoyski, also, Chopin's epistolary expressions of affection for Tytus Woyciechowski "carry no greater implication than 'love' concluding letters today." Crossroads makes a valid point, bolstered by evidence in your own 26 December 2020 texts: "Either [Chopin's] sexuality is ignored entirely (my preference) or it gets a balanced treatment." Nihil novi ( talk) 19:49, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
Nihil novi, any argument that suggests, without justification, the deletion of the opinions of reputable sources, is itself a clear WP:NNPOV. As you are very well aware, the questions are not about Chopin's expressions of affection to Titus, but about the other more explicit comments in the letters. I have no more wish to discuss these explicitly than you do, that would undoubtedly be WP:UNDUE. I be;eive the treatment I have given them in the text is appropriate and proportionate according to the authorities. I repeat the request I made above - if you have any reputable sources that contest what is said about Chopin, Titus (or Gladkowska for that matter), in this section, please let me know and I will be glad to include them.-- Smerus ( talk) 19:57, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
The RfC was about whether there should be a separate section on sexuality.No, it is very clearly about how, if at all, such material should be included, not a mere technicality like if it should have a heading, and was spurred on by a POV pusher whom you appear to be surrendering to for no reason.
It was not about censorship- removing UNDUE and POV text is not censorship.
In no way does the text you have deleted (and which I have now restored) say that Chopin was bisexual- a statement that he was attracted to a male friend implies just that (since sexual orientation isn't a "phase") and is the very matter which we just overcame POV pushing about.
all reputable contemporary biographers (Walker, Zamoyski, Azoury) cover this issue - all of them conclude, as does Walker, that it must remain an open question.As noted above, Zamoyski states it carries no special implication. Does Azoury say it definitely was sexual feelings and towards Woyciechowski?
You may not like what the reputable authorities say, but that is tough - WP is here to report what they say....any argument that suggests, without justification, the deletion of the opinions of reputable sources, is itself a clear WP:NNPOV- not about me. What I don't like is WP:UNDUE WP:ADVOCACY material which we just got done spending tons of time overruling, but which has returned from the dead for some reason. And we do exclude sourced material if it is WP:UNDUE.
If you find a reputable authority who says that there was no way that Chopin ever had any non-heterosexual impulses- you're asking me to find a source proving a negative, which is impossible. If it was due that Chopin was non-heterosexual than I am all for it. But this sort of cherry-picked source speculating this or that historical person is gay or bisexual is not encyclopedic material. I think this has ended up being an end-run around the RfC above which found no consensus for any of this 'was he sexually interested in Woyciechowski?' material. We should be respecting that and the enormous amount of time sunk into it. It should only be added if there is a clear consensus for it, per WP:ONUS, and for NPOV would need to include Zamoyski's clarification and possibly Niecks' view from your draft as well. But I prefer not to cover that question at all per the RfC finding no consensus for change; we should stick to known and due facts, not speculations. Crossroads -talk- 20:33, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
I have full-protected the article for 24 hours. I will unprotect if I can see a clear agreement on how to proceed on the Woyciechowski-related content under dispute. MelanieN, this has (as a consequence of full protection) over-ridden your semi-protection placed because of vandalism, which means it will need to be re-applied when this protection expires. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 21:42, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
Hello. I'm wondering why this article's main title is Frederic Chopin. Chopin's name was Fryderyk, as he was a Pole, born and raised in Poland of polish mother (and french father, as a matter of fact) and polish was His native language. Is there a rational explanation to that? Thank you. 5.173.2.177 ( talk) 12:27, 28 May 2021 (UTC)Maciek
Perhaps we could/should have a permanent link to the very extensive discussion we had concerning Chopin's sexuality: Talk:Frédéric_Chopin/Archive_23. - kosboot ( talk) 12:14, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
I propose to merge Emilia Chopin into Frédéric Chopin. I think that the relevant content in the Emilia article, which is slight, can easily be explained in the context of Frédéric, and the Frédéric article is of a reasonable size that the merging of Emilia will not cause any problems as far as article size is concerned. It should be noted that there is no way that Emilia, who died at the age of 14, meets the criteria of WP:NOTABLE. She appears to have a separate article only because of her brother.-- Smerus ( talk) 13:06, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
It kind of surprises me not to see any mention of that, but since there was some debate about this in Polish sources in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, it seems surprising not to mention the Polonised spelling as a possibility. It after all is the one Norwid used for his poem Chopin's Piano (Fortepian Szopena). I'd suggest to add a note saying "His surname is occasionally given the polonised spelling Szopen in Polish sources."
A couple of Polish linguistic sources confirming that the spelling is still considered OK in contemporary usage, though rarer: University of Zielona Góra, PWN. In the PWN encyclopedia both forms of his surname are given up front. Double sharp ( talk) 14:43, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
Mówią, że się Szopen z Marią Wodzińską, a niegdyś moją Marią ożenił.... I can find this one on Google Books: seems they changed the orthography for Maria, but not for Szopen. So at least it is probably contemporary to his time.
Chopin jest jednym z tych nazwisk, które w języku polskim posiadają wersję wariantywną. Możemy zatem wykorzystywać obie formy – zarówno Chopin, jak i spolszczone Szopen. Brak takiej możliwości budziłby zapewne wątpliwości zważywszy na fakt, że Fryderyk Chopin był wybitnym pianistą i kompozytorem polskiego pochodzenia.The Sz spelling is also on some street names in Poland. That's why I think that it's reasonable that the reader would want to know something about this spelling and if it's documentarily justified or not. Hence the note I had in mind was not a bald-faced "or Szopen" or something like that, but rather "Polish-language writers occasionally use the polonised spelling Szopen". Given Słowacki, perhaps it should even be "Polish-language writers from Chopin's time to now have sometimes used the polonised spelling Szopen, but there is no evidence that the composer or his family ever used it". Double sharp ( talk) 22:15, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
In Alan Walker's recent biography of Chopin, there's a relevant paragraph on the use of Szopen in the chapter on Maria Wodzińska, which refers to her letter of September 1835, from Dresden.
Commentary like this, from an English-language WP:RS like Walker, are helpful (possibly as a source for a footnote). Mathsci ( talk) 12:44, 24 November 2021 (UTC)