This page is to nominate fresh articles to appear in the "
Did you know" section on the
Main Page with a "hook" (an interesting note). Nominations that have been approved are moved to a
staging area and then promoted into
the Queue. To update this page, purge it.
Successful hooks tend to have
several traits. Most importantly, they share a surprising or intriguing fact. They give readers enough context to understand the hook, but leave enough out to make them want to learn more. They are written for a
general audience who has no prior knowledge of or interest in the topic area. Lastly, they are concise, and do not attempt to cover multiple facts or present information about the subject beyond what's needed to understand the hook.
When will my nomination be reviewed?
This page is often backlogged. As long as your submission is still on the page, it will stay there until an editor reviews it. Since editors are encouraged to review the oldest submissions first, it may take several weeks until your submission is reviewed. In the meantime, please consider reviewing another submission (not your own) to help reduce the backlog (see
instructions below).
Where is my hook?
If you can't find the nomination you submitted to this nominations page, it may have been approved and is on the
approved nominations page waiting to be promoted. It could also have been added to one of the
prep areas, promoted from prep to a
queue, or is on the main page.
If the nominated hook is in none of those places, then the nomination has probably been rejected. Such a rejection usually only occurs if it was at least a couple of weeks old and had unresolved issues for which any discussion had gone stale. If you think your nomination was unfairly rejected, you can query this on the
DYK discussion page, but as a general rule such nominations will only be restored in exceptional circumstances.
Any editor who was not involved in writing/expanding or nominating an article may review it by checking to see that the article meets all the DYK criteria (
long enough,
new enough, no serious
editorial or content issues) and the hook is cited. Editors may also alter the suggested hook to improve it, suggest new hooks, or even lend a hand and make edits to the article to which the hook applies so that the hook is supported and accurate. For a more detailed discussion of the DYK rules and review process see the
supplementary guidelines and the
WP:Did you know/Reviewing guide.
To post a comment or review on a DYK nomination, follow the steps outlined below:
Click the "Review or comment" link at the top of the nomination. You will be taken to the nomination subpage.
The top of the page includes a list of the DYK criteria. Check the article to ensure it meets all the relevant criteria.
To indicate the result of the review (i.e., whether the nomination passes, fails, or needs some minor changes), leave a signed comment on the page. Please begin with one of the 5 review symbols that appear at the top of the edit screen, and then indicate all aspects of the article that you have reviewed; your comment should look something like the following:
Article length and age are fine, no copyvio or plagiarism concerns, reliable sources are used. But the hook needs to be shortened.
If you are the first person to comment on the nomination, there will be a line :* <!-- REPLACE THIS LINE TO WRITE FIRST COMMENT, KEEPING :* --> showing you where you should put the comment.
If there is any problem or concern about a nomination, please consider notifying the nominator by placing {{subst:DYKproblem|Article|header=yes|sig=yes}} on the nominator's talk page.
Advanced procedures
How to promote an accepted hook
At-a-glance instructions on how to promote an approved hook to a prep area
Check to make sure basic review requirements were completed.
Any outstanding issue following needs to be addressed before promoting.
Check the article history for any substantive changes since it was nominated or reviewed.
Images for the lead slot must be freely licensed. Fair-use images are not permitted. Images loaded on Commons that appear on the Main Page are automatically protected by
KrinkleBot.
Hook must be stated in both the article and source (which must be cited at the end of the article sentence where stated).
Hook should make sense grammatically.
Try to vary subject matters within each prep area.
Try to select a funny, quirky or otherwise upbeat hook for the last or bottom hook in the set.
Steps to add a hook to prep
In one tab, open the nomination page of the hook you want to promote.
In a second tab, open the prep set you intend to add the hook to.
Wanna skip all this fuss? Install
WP:PSHAW instead! Does most of the heavy lifting for ya :)
For hooks held for specific dates, refer to "Local update times" section on
DYK Queue.
Completed Prep area number sets will be promoted by an administrator to corresponding Queue number.
Copy and paste the hook into a chosen slot.
Make sure there's a space between ... and that, and a ? at the end.
Check that there's a bold link to the article.
If it's the lead (first) hook, paste the image where indicated at the top of the template.
Copy and paste ALL the credit information (the {{DYKmake}} and {{DYKnom}} templates) at the bottom
Check your work in the prep's Preview mode.
At the bottom under "Credits", to the right of each article should have the link "View nom subpage" ; if not, a subpage parameter will need to be added to the DYKmake.
Save the Prep page.
Closing the DYK nomination page
At the upper left
Change {{DYKsubpage to {{subst:DYKsubpage
Change |passed= to |passed=yes
At the bottom
Just above the line containing
}}<!--Please do not write below this line or remove this line. Place comments above this line.-->
insert a new, separate line containing one of the following:
To [[T:DYK/P1|Prep 1]]
To [[T:DYK/P2|Prep 2]]
To [[T:DYK/P3|Prep 3]]
To [[T:DYK/P4|Prep 4]]
To [[T:DYK/P5|Prep 5]]
To [[T:DYK/P6|Prep 6]]
To [[T:DYK/P7|Prep 7]]
Also paste the same thing into the edit summary.
Check in Preview mode. Make sure everything is against a pale blue background (nothing outside) and there are no stray characters, like }}, at the top or bottom.
Open the DYK nomination subpage of the hook you would like to remove. (It's best to wait several days after a reviewer has rejected the hook, just in case someone contests or the article undergoes a large change.)
In the window where the DYK nomination subpage is open, replace the line {{DYKsubpage with {{subst:DYKsubpage, and replace |passed= with |passed=no. Then save the page. This has the effect of wrapping up the discussion on the DYK nomination subpage in a blue archive box and stating that the nomination was unsuccessful, as well as adding the nomination to a category for archival purposes.
How to remove a hook from the prep areas or queue
Edit the prep area or queue where the hook is and remove the hook and the credits associated with it.
Go to the hook's nomination subpage (there should have been a link to it in the credits section).
View the edit history for that page
Go back to the last version before the edit where the hook was promoted, and revert to that version to make the nomination active again.
Add a new icon on the nomination subpage to cancel the previous tick and leave a comment after it explaining that the hook was removed from the prep area or queue, and why, so that later reviewers are aware of this issue.
Add a transclusion of the template back to this page so that reviewers can see it. It goes under the date that it was first created/expanded/listed as a GA. You may need to add back the day header for that date if it had been removed from this page.
If you removed the hook from a queue, it is best to either replace it with another hook from one of the prep areas, or to leave a message at
WT:DYK asking someone else to do so.
How to move a nomination subpage to a new name
Don't; it should not ever be necessary, and will break some links which will later need to be repaired. Even if you change the title of the article, you don't need to move the nomination page.
Source 1 states: "The number of sit-down strikes in 1936, 1937, and 1938 by months, with the number' of workers involved, is given in table 16."
Table 16 lists the same numbers of strikes given in source 2 below. It lists workers involved as follows:
1936: 87,817
1937: 398,117
1938: 28,749
Source 2 states: "In 1936 there were 48 so-called sit-down strikes.
In 1937 the number increased to 477, but by 1938 they decreased to
52. There were only 6 strikes during 1939 in which all or part of the
strikers remained at their workplaces for one or more days after
ceasing work. he number of workers idle in connection with these
6 strikes was 3,416, although the number participating in the sit-down
or stay-in feature is not known."
This sentence involves a very encyclopedic form of synthesis in that it adds numbers from two consecutive studies by the same source. Similar synthesis, but without inclusion of the latter number appears in Sidney Fine's book Sitdown, cited in the article.
QPQ not needed, expansion is recent and article is long enough. Hook is properly sourced. However, Earwig detected a 43.2% similarity. Before I pass this nom, I think it would be suitable to trim down some quotes, if possible.
Davest3r08>:3(
talk) 22:33, 14 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I've reviewed the
Earwig similarity report, which highlights passages that are either in quotes or comprise part of citations (including the journal name and another cited article). The longest passage is the summary of the Matignon Agreement, a quotation I don't think I can improve upon. I've revised the article to reduce the amount of material directly quoted from Torigian and from Adamic, but keep Adamic's longer definition and Torigian's POV that the mid-1930s strikes were a distinct phase of using the tactic. Let me know whether you think
these changes sufficiently reduce the reliance of direct quotations.--
Carwil (
talk) 13:29, 15 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Upon additional consideration, I'm fine with the wikivoice thing.
RoySmith(talk) 21:52, 15 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Replying here as I'm traveling and on mobile only: Hmm... I'm not sure this makes sense as a general principle for DYK hooks (in voice sourcing for official statistics), though I'm not adverse to a "by official counts" phrase being added. There's no reason to suspect that the government counted any non-existent strikes and political reasons to suspect that this government attempted to both be complete in its count and to accurately report both the rise and fall of the phenomenon in its counts. Unintended errors of categorization could fall in both ways. But this seems like the kind of fact routinely sourced in a footnote in a lead section or DYK. - -
User:Carwil
Alt0a ... that by official counts there were 583 sitdown strikes in the United States from 1936 to 1939, affecting over a half-million workers?
Alt0b ... that according to the
U.S. Department of Labor there were 583 sitdown strikes in the United States from 1936 to 1939, affecting over a half-million workers?
I wonder if there were exactly 583 sitdown strikes between 1936 and 1939 – I think that there should be some lip service to the idea that a figure like that probably can't be exact. Attributing inline makes sense to me, if only briefly.
theleekycauldron (
talk • she/her) 19:14, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Comment - @
Carwil: there are still some citation needed templates in the article itself, which need fixing. Plus we need a consensus on which hook to use. If this isn't resolved soon, this may have to be rejected and archived. Cheers —
Amakuru (
talk) 20:27, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
LunaEcplise: I think the sourcing problems are fixed. What about the hooks? --
evrik(
talk) 01:56, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
... that early environmentalists like Cora Babbitt Johnson almost prevented the carving of Mount Rushmore? Source: Smith, Rex Alan (January 1, 1985). The Carving of Mount Rushmore. New York City: Abbeville Press. pp. chapter 2 and chapter 5; Fite, Gilbert Courtland (1952). Mount Rushmore. Internet Archive. Norman : University of Oklahoma Press; Merritt, Riley (2024-04-01). "Borglum's Horse Flies: The Early Opposition to Mount Rushmore". Honors College Theses.
Overall: The nominated article has one paragraph without a citation. The uncited paragraph could be supported in part by pages 11 and 121 of Mount Rushmore by Gilbert C. Fite, it talks about the Hot Springs Star's editorial stance.
https://archive.org/details/mountrushmore00univ/page/121 I also suggest that an alternate wording like "that early environmentalists like
Cora Babbitt Johnson almost prevented..." rather than the current wording. Update:Thanks to
Mary Mark Ockerbloom for working on the reference problems on the article. Do either of the two nominators,
Borg Axoim or
Crunchydillpickle, have any final thoughts or last minute suggestions?
🌿MtBotany (
talk) 03:52, 29 April 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Borg Axoim, @
Crunchydillpickle and @
MtBotany Where does the wiki article state that the carving of Mount Rushmore was "almost prevented?" Unless there's genuine evidence from the cited source that the project was almost going to be shut down (if so, that should be added in), letters of opposition, protests, and halts do not equal "preventions." This needs to be addressed first before promotion.
PrimalMustelid (
talk) 19:46, 7 May 2024 (UTC)reply
You're right,
PrimalMustelid sloppy reviewing on my part. One of the project's promotors (Robinson) said that her editorials against the project, "might produce a real disaster." The strongest that could be said is something like "environmentalists delayed the carving of Mount Rushmore" and I don't know that such as statement would be surprising/interesting. If Borg Axoim or Crunckydillpickle are interested in a rewrite of the hook there is a lot of support for something like "the artist who carved Mt. Rushmore called Cora Johnson and other environmentalists opponents "horseflies"."
🌿MtBotany (
talk) 17:45, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
PrimalMustelid and
MtBotany, you're right that the wording may not be ideal. Two of the sources (Fite and Merritt) mention how Cora Babbitt Johnson swayed the South Dakota governor against the project and that he delayed the project severely. Given that, I think it would be fair to say something like "
Cora Babbitt Johnson and other environmentalists lobbied South Dakota governor
Carl Gunderson, who halted the Mount Rushmore project until the end of his term". Would that be interesting enough? It could still use some rewriting.
User:Borg_Axoim 7:45, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
@
Borg Axoim: thoughts on ALT1? If okay, review needed for it (hopefully from MtBotany).
theleekycauldron (
talk • she/her) 19:19, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
theleekycauldron I think ALT1 is good. I have some small concerns about the Rex Alan Smith source, primarily that it doesn't cite info and has clear bias, but I like the rewrite.
user: Borg_Axoim 12:55, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Overall: This nomination still needs work. As it's your first nomination, I'm happy to give you time to improve this. But, at minimum, you need to settle on an interesting hook with a reliable source that you can clearly cite for it. Unsourced sections need to either be removed, or reliable sources cited inline with them.
Grnrchst (
talk) 13:43, 17 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Suggestion: if you find a source for current use of the same routes, that might be interesting (enough)?
FortunateSons (
talk) 17:56, 18 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Marking as rejected due to a lack of response from
Owenglyndur. If they do not respond in the next few days, this can be closed as rejected.
Z1720 (
talk) 15:29, 10 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Z1720, it appears that Owenglyndur responded to your original post on their talk page on 5 May rather than here, and made a number of edits to the article that same day. Do issues remain? Also pinging original reviewer
Grnrchst.
BlueMoonset (
talk) 04:34, 11 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I'd be ok with passing this review now, as the biggest issues with the article and hook have been sufficiently addressed. There's still some bits that lack inline citations, but some of them make clear what they're citing in the text and others are rather minor things in larger paragraphs that contain inline citations elsewhere. --
Grnrchst (
talk) 08:11, 11 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Grnrchst and
Owenglyndur: A hook cannot run at DYK with missing inline citations. This will need to be resolved.
Z1720 (
talk) 16:38, 11 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Thanks for your comments i will work on them. I will let you know once its ready. So we will be able to publish the DYK then?
Owenglyndur (
talk) 07:42, 12 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Hook should be a Monty Python reference imo. (
t ·
c) buidhe 03:19, 12 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Buidhe: absolutely :) i don't know the sketch well enough, but if you've got something in your back pocket, that'd be hilarious.
theleekycauldron (
talk • she/her) 19:24, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Owenglyndur: it looks like there are still some missing inline citations. (Also, this article could use a stiff copyedit.) The nomination can move forward when the issues are addressed (although it does take a while), but could the issues be addressed within a week?
theleekycauldron (
talk • she/her) 19:22, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Thanks for you comment, i did what i could to correct the article, If it is still not enough, you can remove it from DYK status
Owenglyndur
@
Grnrchst: As the original reviewer, have your concerns been resolved, and is this hook approved? If not, what else needs to be done?
Z1720 (
talk) 14:02, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Z1720: Yes, my concerns have been resolved, as all of the paragraphs now have inline citations. I'm happy to approve this. --
Grnrchst (
talk) 09:21, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Grnrchst: If this is approved, please add the green tick below.
Z1720 (
talk) 15:58, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Grnrchst,
Z1720, and
Owenglyndur: I've noted some significant issues with verifiability on the article talk page, but they have not been addressed. I have not gone through the article with a fine-tooth comb so there may be other issues. Regrettably, as a Monty Python hook would have been fun, I do not think the article is ready to be approved.
Richard Nevell (
talk) 18:34, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Retracted my pending approval, per Richard's comments. Looking at the talk page, there's definitely some major issues with it that are keeping this from being approved. --
Grnrchst (
talk) 09:13, 30 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Blaylockjam10: I studied the source and cannot find the hook. Can you lead me to it?
Bruxton (
talk) 02:56, 1 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Bruxton: It’s under “Regular Season (Complete Stats)”. It looks like it may only be visible on a computer.
Blaylockjam10 (
talk) 11:33, 2 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Looks like I need a premium membership to view. I will leave this to another reviewer.
Bruxton (
talk) 04:02, 4 May 2024 (UTC)reply
If "S TEAM LEAGUE GP GD GAA SV% GA SV SO W-L-T TOI" and "2022-23 Avtomobilist Yekaterinburg KHL 1 4 - - - - 0 0-0-1 0:00" means what I think it means, then a) you don't need a premium membership to view and b) I think the hook checks out with the source, depending on what "W-L-T" means, although I haven't yet looked at the article. I'm a bit worried about the phrases "submit stats/facts" and "edit profile" I found on the source - what makes it reliable?--Launchballer 11:57, 4 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Launchballer I saw the same, which made me feel like it was a contributor site. Honestly I was just lost on that page. I think W is win L is loss and T is tie. It is a clever hook which drew me to the nomination, but then I found myself lost for a half hour clicking on pull down menus until I got to a paywall. @
BeanieFan11: may be able to help.
Bruxton (
talk) 14:55, 4 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I'm not seeing the TOI part of the Elite Prospects link but based on how he played in the game that would make sense.
NHL says that he was the goaltender for only the shootout portion in his only game, which would mean that he "officially" had zero minutes since the shootout isn't timed. (Also, I've come across Elite Prospects a number of times – they seem pretty reliable (don't think I've seen an incorrect stat, although I've only used them in writing ~10 hockey articles) and seem to have a staff – also cited
~20,000 times). I'd say it's good for approving as long as the article itself is fine.
BeanieFan11 (
talk) 16:08, 4 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Blaylockjam10 I located the minutes played after being guided.
Earwig determined that there is some minor
WP:CLOP which needs to be addressed. Also probably not a DYK issue, but consider that we probably do not need a
section for three words - it should be combined somewhere. Also the lead should introduce/summarize more of the article; right now it is a single sentence. The hook is interesting and the article is neutral with the correct inline citations. Created on April 19 nominated April 26 so the article is new enough and with 2344 the article is long enough.
Bruxton (
talk) 18:52, 4 May 2024 (UTC)reply
... that a new subspecies of giant sengi was discovered in 2021? Source: "Despite the pelage differences, initial DNA comparisons found it nearly identical to R. chrysopygus. A later DNA comparison supported a designation of a new subspecies, Rhynchocyon chrysopygus mandelai as it diverges in pelage and is allopatric to R. chrysopygus (Agwanda et al. 2021)."
ALT1 ... that a new subspecies of giant sengi was discovered in 2021 in Kenya? Source: "Despite the pelage differences, initial DNA comparisons found it nearly identical to R. chrysopygus. A later DNA comparison supported a designation of a new subspecies, Rhynchocyon chrysopygus mandelai as it diverges in pelage and is allopatric to R. chrysopygus (Agwanda et al. 2021)."
ALT2 ... that a new Golden-rumped sengi subspecies (Rhynchocyon) was discovered in in Kenya? Source: "Despite the pelage differences, initial DNA comparisons found it nearly identical to R. chrysopygus. A later DNA comparison supported a designation of a new subspecies, Rhynchocyon chrysopygus mandelai as it diverges in pelage and is allopatric to R. chrysopygus (Agwanda et al. 2021)."
ALT3 ... that a new subspecies of the giant Golden-rumped sengi was discovered in 2021? Source: "Despite the pelage differences, initial DNA comparisons found it nearly identical to R. chrysopygus. A later DNA comparison supported a designation of a new subspecies, Rhynchocyon chrysopygus mandelai as it diverges in pelage and is allopatric to R. chrysopygus (Agwanda et al. 2021)."
Date, size, expansion, hook, refs, QPQ, copyvio spotcheck, all GTG. Minor disclaimer: the prose script I use does not count tables and bulleted lists, and without them I see only ~2.5-3x expansion. But there is a new large table (with some advanced features) and a new list, so I am AGFing the 5x claim. PS. I added a single citation needed request to one sentence - I ask the nom to comment here on whether it has been addressed. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 10:15, 20 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Reference added! And yes, it was not massively expanded, however I am working on more sections in the conservation section today. Thank you for the comments.
Andrew Z. Colvin •
Talk 22:55, 20 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Not happy with 'recently'; hooks must not be likely to change.--Launchballer 17:41, 4 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Azcolvin429: Another issue with recently is that it's relative to the field but if that's unclear, it could give folks a misleading impression. 2008/7 is recent for the discovery of species, but not recent in other ways. Back in 2007, you could pull your Blackberry out of your ombré jeans and text your friends to meet you at Blockbuster Video so you all could rent a DVD to play on your PS2. Some people could read the hook as meaning that it was discovered earlier this year. I thought some of the reproduction information cited to
Rathbun was interesting, including that they're monogamous but spend little time together and the quick development of the offspring, "mall versions of adults and are able to run swiftly within an hour of birth". Good luck, whichever way you go,
Rjjiii (
talk) 06:24, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
AirshipJungleman29, Fair point, I would be happy to review alternate hooks, as on second thought the current one is also not very interesting. Could of course just change 'recently' to a year and move on, accepting that it won't be very clickable. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 01:45, 12 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I know it is not super interesting, its just a little factoid and I expanded the article significantly so figured it would be useful. I initally avoided the year as it is not super recent, but it was not on Wikipedia until I wrote about it and updated corresponding phylogenies and distributions. I should clarify that the expanded article is just the genus. The new subspecies is Rhynchocyon chrysopygus mandelai and is mentioned in the article as well as given a section titled "Kenya subspecies". Maybe the hook should be more specific? Though I wanted to avoid being too technical. I added a few alts.
Andrew Z. Colvin •
Talk 06:39, 12 May 2024 (UTC)reply
None of the currently proposed hooks (including the new ones) are very interesting. I would suggest moving away from the "newly-discovered" angle as it's clearly not working out. My suggestion would be to try hooks about the subject itself, like something else that's mentioned in the article.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 00:29, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Alt4 ... that giant sengis offspring get little maternal care and no paternal care? Rathbun 2013,
Azcolvin429 will need to confirm that the wording matches the source
Alt5 ... that giant sengis form monogamous couples that only come together to mate? Rathbun 2013,
Azcolvin429 will need to confirm that the wording matches the source
Given the 5x expansion, here are several behavior related hooks--
Kevmin§ 16:57, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
ALTs 4 and 5 are both cited in the article and are short enough, with ALT4 edging it interestingness-wise. Let's roll.--Launchballer 20:22, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
The relevant text from the source (which appears to be Rathbun 2009, not 2013, based on the relevant footnote) is The pair bond is weak, with the animals spending relatively little time in coordinated activities, except when a female is in oestrus, which seems to contradict ALT5 ("relatively little time" isn't none except mating), and No direct paternal investment in neonates has been documented, which doesn't quite back up ALT4: just because it hasn't been documented doesn't mean it doesn't happen, just that scientists haven't seen any.
Launchballer, if you're going to approve hooks, it's your responsibility to first check the sources to make sure they concur with the article as to the hook facts. ALT4 might be made usable by adding "known" or "documented" before "paternal" but the article needs to be revised first to match the source; ALT5 probably can't be saved, though the article should still be corrected to match the source.
BlueMoonset (
talk) 23:21, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
My mistake, I saw "Azcolvin429 will need to confirm that the wording matches the source" and assumed they were offline, because why else would Kevmin not be able to check himself. If it really is in Rathbun 2013, then the source should be switched.--Launchballer 23:36, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
With regard to Alt 4 (and a degree alt 5), we also dont have confirmation that there arent micropockets of cheddar in the earths core, but we arent going to veto a hook about the metallic nature of the core because we havent had a report about it? "just that scientists haven't seen any", presents as a highly anti-science statement, boiling down "what do experts know anyways, they CVOULD be wrong so we have to assume they are wrong."
Additionally I was pinged to provide alternatives, I did not write the article and I did not have to provide any input at all.--
Kevmin§ 01:06, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Overall: I don't think either hooks are that interesting. Can you come up with something else? Perhaps you could mention that they won $500,000, I suppose.
BorgQueen (
talk) 20:15, 18 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
BorgQueen: didn't see this notif for some reason. I personally don't find the financials/monetary aspect of these sorts of things interesting at all. I thought ALT1 was kinda conceptually funny, the fact that the team was still so freshly signed when they won the tournament that DZ hadn't even given them player bios on their website yet. Idk. I'll see what I can do, but will be adding the $500,000 win into the actual article as that info is currently not included.
Soulbust (
talk) 01:44, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Painting of Taiyin Xingjun, the Western Xia (982–1227), in Hermitage Museum.
... that Taiyin Xingjun(pictured) is considered the original Chinese moon goddess, even though
Chang'e is sometimes viewed as an accidental resident and is also regarded as an incarnation of her? Source:
找神!拜對正廟有緣神: 拓展「神脈」,更要抱對「佛腳」!
Hi, who will review my DYK? And how many days do I need to wait for a review?
TheGreatPeng (
talk) 18:45, 26 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Comment. Please be patient. This is a volunteer effort, and the average wait time for a review could be around two to three weeks, perhaps sooner or later depending on who is active. Please be mindful of
WP:DYK200. It may help to present alternate hooks for consideration.
Viriditas (
talk) 20:56, 26 April 2024 (UTC)reply
But it was too long to wait; even my second DYK was reviewed.
TheGreatPeng (
talk) 05:29, 9 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Article is sourced well, no plagiarism, new enough, long enough, but needs another pass over for grammar, spelling, and tone. Article could also use clarification about which aspects of worship of this god apply to China/specific regions of China, and which to Taiwan. Hook should also be simplified. How about: ...that Taiyin Xingjun (pictured) is the original Chinese moon goddess, but is often confused with Chang'e?
@
TheGreatPeng: Hi, please make the changes mentioned above, the article has some issues with tone. On review, it seems like there are several quotes which are not distinguished from the text of the article, these should be incorporated into the text or at least separated into quote blocks. See:
WP:QUOTE
The new hook you suggested sounds good, with slight correction: "...that Taiyin Xingjun (pictured) is the original Chinese moon goddess, while the more famous Chang'e is considered her incarnation? "
@
Luiysia: I've done my best to adjust the grammar and tone, even though I'm not a copyeditor. However, I'm unsure about how to format certain text from books or historical documents as a quote block since it's not dialogue. Could you provide an example quote block, and I'll adjust accordingly?
WP:QUOTE is not helpful. Thanks!
TheGreatPeng (
talk) 10:47, 24 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
PSA,
Prince of Erebor,
Launchballer,
Geni,
Kusma, and
Z1720: reopening this nom page per discussion at
WT:DYK. I personally agree with the sentiment expressed there that including mention of Eilish's sexuality is not suitable for the main page, when she's explicitly said she doesn't accept the concept of outing. Suggest we go with Kusma's alt or something else. Full discussion to be copied below. —
Amakuru (
talk) 20:18, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
My reading of the sources is that Eilish is objecting to actually being outed; if she had a problem with the term, she wouldn't have used it in the Instagram post mentioned in the Background section.--Launchballer 14:30, 23 May 2024 (UTC)reply
From what I read in the source
[1], she said "i like boys and girls leave me alone about it please literally who cares." so I am not sure focussing on her sexuality (instead of on the song) is appropriate for the Main Page. —
Kusma (
talk) 14:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)reply
It's more like "no one has to feel pressured to tell people theyre LGBT" to me. not necessarily a rejection of the concept
PSA 🏕️🪐 (please make some noise...) 08:52, 24 May 2024 (UTC)reply
... that
Lionel Messi has provoked geopolitical tensions across China, the United States, Argentina, Japan and Hong Kong due to his absence from a match?
What a ride that article was. QPQ not needed. Earwig has a high score for copyvio detection, but that's entirely due to Messi's paragraph-long statement in the "Departure and Japan trip" section, which has an inline citation to the flagged source. Referencing is adequate and length/newness criteria fulfilled. Hook is definitely interesting and cited in source, not cited inline as exact phrasing but separately so. Good to go.
Juxlos (
talk) 10:13, 1 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Cypp0847 and
Juxlos: I have tagged the article for copyediting, as there are grammar-related issues throughout the article (tenses, for instance, are very often incorrect). This needs to be resolved before a DYK run.
~~ AirshipJungleman29 (
talk) 01:39, 9 May 2024 (UTC)reply
FYI, I'm working on a copyedit and will try to have it posted later today or tomorrow. –
Reidgreg (
talk) 18:21, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Okay, finished my copyedit. I removed the flag icons per
MOS:FLAG and shortened one of the really long quotations. The infobox image, while taken from a video released under CC, contains elements which are definitely under copyright. I suggest taking a low-resolution version (100k pixels) and moving it to en.wiki with a fair use rationale, and using that. Please ping me (here or elsewhere) if you have any questions regarding my edits. –
Reidgreg (
talk) 05:27, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Overall: A newly promoted GA which received an appropriate review during the GAN. Overall, everything looks good for ALT0, which I think is definitely the strongest option. I'd make a few tweaks to the wording, though, to make it more concise, define "pie" (since it's not that common as a verb), and remove the identity of the thrower (which doesn't add much as not too many readers will know who he is). That leaves us with ALT0a: ...that an environmentalist
threw a pie in the face of the author of The Skeptical Environmentalist? If that works for you, this should be good to go. Sdkbtalk 01:22, 7 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Thank you, @
Sdkb:! Your proposed alt is fine with me :)
Arcahaeoindris (
talk) 09:02, 10 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I'm getting
WP:false balance vibes from ALT0. Views sounds like an opinion, rather than misinformation.
—Femke 🐦 (
talk) 17:02, 16 May 2024 (UTC)reply
ALT0a presumably resolves that, though,
Femke. I'll cross out ALT0 to make it clearer. Sdkbtalk 17:24, 16 May 2024 (UTC)reply
yeah, you're right, should have noticed that, sorry.
—Femke 🐦 (
talk) 17:32, 16 May 2024 (UTC)reply
After no response to my notice on
WT:DYK, I have pulled the hook due to unsourced content.
Z1720 (
talk) 00:43, 25 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Striking ALT1, as it does not contain the nominated article nor any reasonable place to link to it. You need a further 104 characters for this to become eligible.--Launchballer 15:16, 1 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Still needs another 42 characters. You should consider installing
WP:DYKcheck so you can check yourself.--Launchballer 17:05, 1 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Now added some stuff about the 2 types of ambilineal, which I may expand into there own sectrions at some point. Hows this now @
Launchballer: — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Me Da Wikipedian (
talk •
contribs)
How are you remembering to put my username in your comments and not- anyway, length requirement met. Full review needed.--Launchballer 20:33, 1 May 2024 (UTC)reply
It won't be me any time soon, I have a policy of doing my QPQs oldest first. Any other editor is free to review this in the interim.--Launchballer 07:33, 2 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Overall: Nominated in time. 5x expansion. No QPQ need. Current hook as written is not reflected in the text of the article. Another hook please. --
evrik(
talk) 01:45, 16 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Nom is blocked and based on behavior likely a sock (but I haven't figured out who yet). Not to mention multiple issues with submission noted above. We have enough work to do, we don't need to be wasting time on this.
RoySmith(talk) 16:45, 16 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I can however respond, here, and I will. It was in the article when it was submitted. Anyways, here is a new one:Did you know that
lineages often have
religious significance, determining ones religion and there role in that religion
. Also, I do not appreciate unfounded allegations by @
RoySmith: that I am wasting their time and a sock. Thank you. @
Evrik@
Me Da Wikipedian: (
talk) 20:49, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
I am posting the above from this
this post. The user has suggested:
Alt2 ... that lineages often have
religious significance, determining ones religion and their role in that religion?
@
AirshipJungleman29: my apologies if I have caused some confusion or consternation. Once the author posted an alternate hook I found reasonable, I considered the discussion there moot. Also, in fairness, I archived a bunch of discussions at the same time. As for the comments made by @
Rjjiii:, well I didn't consider them negative as much as a suggestion. Honestly, I think the piece was overcited. I did read the passage and thought it matched the citations listed. I have changed one word and I think it all matches up. Hope this addresses your concerns. --
evrik(
talk) 04:44, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
The article is new enough and long enough. It is properly sourced. Earwig detects some close paraphrasing with
this site, so that will need to be resolved before the nomination can be approved. QPQ pending. The hook itself is interesting, but it's a little on the long side and I wonder if it could be simplified to simply:
ALT0a ... that when Daniela Kerck directed Giacomo Puccini's Turandot in 2024, she played the opera unfinished as it was when Puccini died in 1924?
I included Puccini's full name in the hook as he may not be a composer that is known by name among most readers unlike say Mozart or Beethoven. Apart from the close paraphrasing, my main concern with the article right now is the wording of the hook supporting sentences.
She directed Puccini's Turandot in her sets for the 2024 Internationale Maifestspiele, conducted by Yoel Gamzou. She decided to use none of the three completions of Puccini's opera that was unfinished when he died in 1924. She identified the Prince with the composer. When he died in the end, the beginning of his Requiem was performed.
It's a bit confusing to get how the hook is connected to this excerpt, though I think the issue here is more about wording, so a copyedit to make the article or at least the passage flow better might solve the issue. Pinging
4meter4 for help in copyediting the article so that the passage would more clearly support the hook. As an aside, the reference supporting the hook needs to be after "when he died in 1924" rather than after the mention of the Requiem.
I would also like to ask 4meter4 how significant Kerck's directing of this particular performance is or how significant the Internationale Maifestspiele is in the world of opera, but this would not affect the nomination but rather is just a request for additional context.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 09:31, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Didn't you say you review my nominations only when they have lingered for weeks? Kindly read the article about the festival, - it was founded after the model of the Bayreuth Festival in the 19th century.
Anna Netrebko came to sing Turandot during the festival.
[3][4] - Puccini is probably better known than Mozart due to La bohéme. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 13:16, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Narutolovehinata5 The
Internationale Maifestspiele is a respected and long standing opera festival that draws a sizable international crowd (typically around 20,000 people+). It is one of the more important opera festivals in Germany, although it isn't as famous as the
Bayreuth Festival which is on another level and is probably the most famous opera festival in the world. The Internationale Maifestspiele would be known by anyone who follows opera seriously in Europe, and would probably be immediately recognizable to most people living in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, and parts of France (the German speaking parts along the French/German border). I don't think the average person outside of those countries would find it immediately recognizable, but that shouldn't preclude using it in the hook. Turandot is a very famous opera, and even people only nominally familiar with opera would probably either know the name or recognize some of its music. Most people would know
Nessun dorma for example which has played in the soundtracks of many films and tv shows, and has been performed on numerous singing competition programs internationally.
4meter4 (
talk) 17:13, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
The hook fact is not accurate in either version of the hook. The opera was not played "unfinished" but ends with the death of Liu by design. There's a long discussion with the director at
https://www.staatstheater-wiesbaden.de/download/42624/hsw_ph_turandot_rz_digital_240404.pdf about the crafting of a new ending by Kerck. If one reads through the program they make an argument about why the opera should end with Liu's death, and how Kerck utilized notes and sketches by Puccini to rework a new ending that ends in that place. In other words, we shouldn't suggest that the opera just leaves off where Puccini stopped, because that isn't what this production did. Nor should we call it "unfinished" because it was given a re-worked ending designed by Kerck based on notes left by Puccini and incorporating portions of Puccini's 1905 Requiem. I also note that it is called a "new ending" in the Frankfurter Rundschau review that is cited.
I also have an issue with the original hook because it seems to say she was 'directing through scenic design' as opposed to staging the production. She staged it and she designed the sets and that isn't at all clear in the first hook. Lastly, the article currently fails the
WP:BLPSOURCES guideline because the biographical content is sourced to an opera company website that employs Kerck. @
Gerda Arendt this is a repeating problem. Stop using opera company and orchestra website artist bios to write articles. These are not independent sources, and our policies on BLPs require "high quality" (ie independent) sources. That's not negotiable.
Finally, the last two sentences of the article are very confusing to anybody not familiar with Turandot, and is obviously in error to those who are. The character of the prince (ie Calaf) needs to be explained. Further the text asserts the prince dies and is being conflated with Puccini's death, but Calaf doesn't die in the opera, Liu does. That whole bit seems confusing and to be in error. It doesn't really grasp what the sources are saying accurately. There needs to be plot context, and discussion of the autobiographical nature of Puccini's interaction with the characters from events in his life in order to make it understood what Kerck was actually doing with her original ending which places Liu and her death (not the prince who remains very much alive) at the climax of the opera. @
Narutolovehinata5 If it is alright with you I am going to take over this review because of the factual errors in an area I have some knowledge in.
4meter4 (
talk) 16:45, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
4meter4, thank you for clarifying festival and opera. - The hook: it took you several sentences to describe what she did (direct, design the stage, create a new ending with different music than usually ...), - could you kindly offer a wording in 200 chars, or help with it? I think we will have to mention that Puccini left the opera unfinished when he died in 1924 (the year needed because of the centenary), which leaves little room to say more, - I doubt that it's commonly known. How about saying that the performance leaves out the happy ending that he wasn't able to compose? Trying:
ALT2: ... that Daniela Kerck, scenic designer and stage director of Puccini's Turandot for the 2024
Internationale Maifestspiele, omitted the happy ending that the composer had not set to music when he died in 1924?
ALT2a: ... that Daniela Kerck, scenic designer and stage director of Turandot at the 2024
Internationale Maifestspiele, omitted the happy ending that Puccini had not composed when he died in 1924?
Other ideas welcome. - Which "biographical information" do you think is sourced to an opera company? - This is not yet a reply to the last paragraph, - we had an edit conflict, twice. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 20:05, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
After edit conflict: what I saw on stage was that after Liu's death, the Prince/Puccini moves to the grand piano, Turandot follows, kisses him, and he dies (called "Todeskuss" - kiss of death - in one of the reviews), - the new ending. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 20:11, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Gerda Arendt I think the tags I placed are self explanatory as to which sources are promotional non-independent sources. I'll take a look at the plot change leading to Calaf's death by looking through more sources. In reading the one interview with Kerck, she specifically emphasized Liu's death as her focus and pointedly named the Prince as complicit in her death through his silence. Regardless, it would seem killing off the prince at the end rather than having him end happily with Turandot would be a hooky fact. I think the emphasis of the hook should de-emphasize Puccini and focus more on Kerck and her original work. The hook language should not cram too many facts in, but should be a focused sentence on a single fact.
4meter4 (
talk) 21:42, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I made some changes, adding sources, and dropping the details at the end that you found confusing. I added a newspaper ref for the nomination for the Opera Award. Only, it's subscription only, so I left the University ref for the same fact - that people can actually read - also. (I also don't see that what a university reports about an alumna is "promotional.") I need sleep, and tomorrow is a feast day. Patience please. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 21:57, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@ Gerda, I was able to find more detail in this review which confirms the kiss of death
https://magazin.klassik.com/konzerte/reviews.cfm?TASK=review&PID=8178. I would suggest incorporating more detail into Kerck's article highlighting specific changes to the story between her ending and the other traditional endings. A good hook could read something like this: Alt3 ... that Daniela Kerck's new ending to Puccini's Turandot reenvisioned Turandot giving the prince the kiss of death rather than proclaiming her love?
4meter4 (
talk) 22:20, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
4meter4: I'm okay with you taking over the review, but given that Puccini isn't a household name and not everyone may know who he is, I'd suggest that any hook mentioning him give his full name. I'll leave it to another reviewer as to whether or not ALT3 is okay but personally I'm not a fan of it since it assumes knowledge of the opera, which not all readers may have. My preference would be more towards some variation of ALT2's hook fact as it seems less specialist.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 02:59, 9 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Narutolovehinata5 I would consider Puccini a household name and a commonly known figure. He is a seminal composer in the western canon and one of the most performed and recorded composers of all time, on the same level as Mozart, Wagner, Verdi, Bach, etc. Indeed, he gets performed more frequently than Wagner,
placing third on the list of most performed composers, surpassing both Beethoven and Bach. I disagree that a full name is needed, or that Puccini could be considered in any way an obscure figure. His operas are ubiquitously performed globally and have been for over a century. According to opera base, in the year 2024 alone there are 681 different professional productions of his operas being staged around the world, and that includes companies in Asia, North and South America, Australia, Africa, and Europe. That doesn't include the many orchestras and concerts that are programing his music as well in 2024. There are very few composers so widely performed across the world, and over such a long period of time. I would think most of our readers would know who Puccini is, and if they don't, they would be the exception. His arias even get sung and recorded by pop and rock singers on occasion which is rare for an opera composer. For example "
Nessun dorma" from Turandot has been performed by
Adam Lambert,
Queen,
Jennifer Hudson,
Jeff Beck,
Josh Groban,
Manowar, and
Michael Bolton among many other non-opera singers.
4meter4 (
talk) 03:35, 9 May 2024 (UTC)reply
4meter4, thank you for taking the time! I'm off for the day but reading this when just checking the watch list made the day even better. Recommended listening
[5], enjoy! --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 07:33, 9 May 2024 (UTC)reply
You of all people might have known that after returning from a good weekend trip, I first had to deal with the
RD article of the day, and then with sourcing
M. H.. I am not done (or am I, please check?), and before supplying a qpq, I'll have to source Kerck to your and 4meter4's liking, or not. What an opera company writes about its member is thought to be "promotional". Interesting. What I see is a list of roles. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 15:36, 13 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Yes,
Gerda Arendt. All work products/publications by a performing arts organization are intended as a tool of promotion as well as a tool for information. Opera companies/theatres are businesses and they have an invested interest in promoting their company/theatre and its performers in order to sell tickets. There is a commercial aspect to the performing arts, and the materials that an opera company/theatre produces for public consumption are directly connected to its commercial interests. This is why we should avoid using sources produced by theatres/opera companies as much as possible. Artist bios are written by talent management and PR companies. Most professional singers have a paid talent agent who specializes in marketing opera singers, and those agents often write the bios hosted on theatre/opera company websites. Or the opera company/theatre itself will have an in house PR/marketing staff member responsible for writing those materials. There is therefore, a direct COI with these kinds of sources because they are written as a marketing tool for commercial gain. When possible, its best not to use PR materials of this type for ethical reasons.
4meter4 (
talk) 15:53, 13 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I don't know what you normally read, but I see that Oper Frankfurt and Hessisches Staatstheater write their own bios, and their own high-class program books. - German opera houses in general are public institutions, financed mostly by tax money. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 16:04, 13 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Gerda, it's not a completely publicly funded institution. They sell tickets and market their organization. End of story. The fact that they are writing their own content makes it
WP:SELFPUBLISHED in addition to having a financial COI. We shouldn't be using materials like this other than in an external link for ethical reasons.
4meter4 (
talk) 17:05, 13 May 2024 (UTC)reply
The type of sources not accepted by 4meter4 is discussed in the deletion discussion of
Magdalena Hinterdobler. I believe we should not run the two parallel but wait for that to close. I also have Pentecost coming up, going to sing, and with little time to provide additional sources. One thing is sure: I'll mostly turn to Bach's cantatas for the rest of the year. No more biographies of living people for a while. Kerck's story, however, is worth telling. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 10:06, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Let us know when you are ready.
4meter4 (
talk) 01:56, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Today is still Pentecost, singing in church, lunch with friends. I'll try to get to it tomorrow. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 13:02, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Today, I had to work on
Requiem (Verdi) (premiere 22 May 1874), but interrupted for Kerck:
I wrote a bit more about Turandot as an exotic story envisioned by a composer at his grand piano who dies over it. Please check. I still think that the kiss of life is just a small instance within this one piece. A hook should introduce to Kerck in general, I would prefer one that mentions a) that she is both director and scenic designer which is unusual, and b) that the storytelling of Turandot is not just some whimsical idea but is related to Puccini's death in 1924 over this opera. I tried that in ALT2, and miss it in your suggestion. Trying to please:
ALT3: ... that Daniela Kerck, scenic designer and stage director of Puccini's Turandot at the 2024
Internationale Maifestspiele, identified the composer with the Prince, who receives a kiss of death from Turandot when the music he was able to write in 1924 ends?
Wording help welcome, - too long, too complex ...
Sources: I found a ref for the shortlist. However, I found no ref for some items - masterclasses, thesis - from the Staatstheater website. Are such things "promotional"? How,
4meter4? --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 16:05, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
4meter4, I added another interview and several references about performances. There is now no instance where Hessisches Staatstheater is the only reference. Admittedly, the details mentioned above (teachers, masterclasses, thesis) rely on her website, but I see nothing contentious in these bits. What do you think? --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 12:09, 23 May 2024 (UTC)reply
ALT3 cannot be used as it is 252 characters long. I would suggest cutting down all the fat because it is simply too detailed.
4meter4 Do you have a way to shorten it?
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 23:53, 24 May 2024 (UTC)reply
What in my "too complex, too long, wording help welcome" did you not understand? Could you help perhaps? Brutally short:
But 4meter4 liked the kiss of death. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 07:59, 25 May 2024 (UTC)reply
ALT5: ... that when Daniela Kerck directed and designed the scene for Turandot, Puccini's 1924 unfinished opera, for the 2024
International May Festival, she identified the Unknown Prince with the composer?
ALTs 3 to 5 are material to play with. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 09:09, 25 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Comment. Gerda, I don't think the whole identifying the composer with the prince fact is working. It's too esoteric, and requires knowledge of the opera and composer to make it interesting. It's probably best to simplify this for a general audience. Perhaps say ....Alt6 ... that for the 2024
Internationale Maifestspiele, stage director and scenic designer Daniela Kerck crafted a new ending to Puccini's unfinished opera Turandot? This is factually accurate, and doesn't require a working knowledge of the opera to understand it. I struck rejected hooks above. If you like this one Gerda, I'll have to ask someone else to approve it.
4meter4 (
talk) 18:18, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I don't like it but I can live with it. I'd prefer mentioning that it was in 1924 that the opera was left unfinished. I thought that the mysterious "Unknown Prince" would raise curiosity, even from someone not particularly interest in opera. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 19:28, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I think the 1924 date requires too much context to fit in with all the other facts, and given the opera premiered in 1926 it would be controversial to simply slap a parenthetical 1924 after Turandot. Since I wrote Alt6, I will have to request a new reviewer.
4meter4 (
talk) 19:37, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
New reviewer needed.
4meter4 (
talk) 19:38, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
4meter4: I'm okay with ALT6, but the article still has the "better source needed" and "promotional source" tags. Those will need to be resolved before this can be approved.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 02:25, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I don't see that, sorry.
Narutolovehinata5 called you as an expert, I called Michael as an expert of which sources are acceptable. - What makes a reference promotional, its source or its content? - That is the question. I asked you - in a different case - to say what is promotional in a specific source, and still wait. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 15:57, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
GobsPint: - The weight fraud articles has been tagged by @
Lovkal:. This needs to be resolved. --
evrik(
talk) 19:30, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I haven't had much luck finding articles explicitly spelling out scale weight fraud outside the US...though it evidently exits.
GobsPint (
talk) 21:41, 19 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Article all looks good to me: long enough, new enough, citations look good, and no plagiarism found. However, this hook doesn't sound quite grammatically correct to me. How about: ... that putting pre-moistened meat diapers in case-ready meat is a form of weight fraud?Luiysia (
talk) 17:02, 10 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Case-ready is jargon. Can it be replaced by pre-packaged?
—Femke 🐦 (
talk) 08:44, 11 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Theleekycauldron: It's ready to go. There's some concern about the {{Globalize}} tag that got added to
weight fraud...I'm having trouble locating sources for a non-US section on weight fraud...though its evidently occuring.
GobsPint (
talk) 04:00, 23 May 2024 (UTC)reply
... that cats are taken in procession around villages and splashed with water as part of a rain-making ritual at the end of the dry season in Cambodia and Thailand?
... that Claude Hamilton Verity, grandson of
Doncaster mayor Charles Verity, was one of the earlier pioneers of synchronisation of sound with silent films (advertisement pictured)?
ALT1: ... that
navvyCharles Verity, who became a wealthy contractor and mayor of
Doncaster, was grandfather of Claude Hamilton Verity an early inventor of synchronous sound with silent films (advertisement pictured)? Source: As above for being grandfather of the inventor. For the rise of Charles Verity, see
The Doncaster Review, November 1896
I'd like to see a more internationally appealing hook than the current one because the hook to me isn't exactly impressive or eye-catching (it basically says that Soberano played a role, which is her job).
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 09:08, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I guess that's okay too, but do you have any additional suggestions? Article itself seems long enough and new enough at least.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 09:08, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Not from this article, no. This is in itself a hook that has "international appeal" given it's a Hollywood debut for a Filipino actress, which is a rarity.
Pseud 14 (
talk) 15:27, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
The article is new enough, long enough, is free of close paraphrasing, and is adequately sources. ALT1 (the only hook under consideration) is verified in the source and mentioned in the article. A QPQ ahs been done. I'm still not 100% sure if ALT1 works out in terms of interest or if additional hooks are needed, so I'm passing judgement on ALT1 to a third-party editor.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 09:02, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I would argue that there's nothing too unusual about a Filipino actress in Hollywood; the fact that she's not American is something, but foreign actors aren't exactly, well, foreign. (signed, an Angeleno, for what it's worth)
theleekycauldron (
talk • she/her) 02:40, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I'd probably have passed ALT1, but after reading
Liza Soberano and this, I can suggest ALT2: ... that
Liza Soberano(pictured), an actress described by media publications as among the most beautiful Filipino actresses of her generation, played an unattractive exchange student in Just the Way You Are? - but you would need to add that bit from
Liza Soberano.--Launchballer 09:29, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Thanks for the suggestion
Launchballer, I am unsure if adding the latter would work because it takes context out of the main article, instead of the nominated article for DYK, and honestly, I see little value of adding that bit on her roles and awards (as those publications are mostly listicles and generally don't count as awards). Having said that, Alt2 may be another iteration of Alt0 - which is a just another role she played. Thoughts?
Pseud 14 (
talk) 20:57, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I'd have thought the juxtaposition of a beautiful actress playing an unattractive exchange student would be interesting.--Launchballer 08:24, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
List is new, long, well sourced, neutral, and copyvio-free, as well as supported with a licensed image (which I doubt will make it to the Main Page). I concur with Narutolovehinata5 that none of the hooks is interesting; on ALT1, for instance, boldlinked article refers to the subject's acting credits, among others, yet only her so-called Hollywood breakthrough is singled out here, which makes her domestic roles inadequate in a way. This can be an interesting hook for a Lisa Frankenstein DYK, but certainly not for this one. Although QPQ has been given, another compelling hook is needed.
Nineteen Ninety-Four guy (
talk) 07:44, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
If this is your alt proposal, then I don't think it's gonna fly, either; it's not unusual for most (if not all) grown actors to start out at a young age. Are there any more?
Nineteen Ninety-Four guy (
talk) 09:43, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Alt3 seems interesting, but could use some tweaks,
Alt3a: ... that
Liza Soberano's early acting roles include playing the third wheel in romance films? Source:
[7]
If this is OK with you, just add an end-of-sentence citations on it so I can redirect this to another reviewer.
Nineteen Ninety-Four guy (
talk) 21:43, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Works for me thanks. Citation added.
Pseud 14 (
talk) 23:09, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
ALT3a is short enough, sourced, and interesting. Let's roll.--Launchballer 23:11, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I do apologize for the comment given that the nomination has already been approved, but I'm not very confident about ALT3a to be honest. If you're a Filipino (Soberano is a big name over here), ALT3a might be surprising especially for people who may not have followed her career as closely as super fans. However, to me at least, ALT3a is a bit reliant on knowing how big Soberano is, and an international reader might not get that context. Honestly I do think ALT2 was actually a better option. Yes it was a role hook, a kind of hook I have mixed opinions about, but the contrast does seem to catch attention and isn't as reliant on knowing about Philippine entertainment as much.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 02:09, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
The argument doesn't make sense at all. You're looking from the lens of someone who knows Soberano and not from the POV of an unfamiliar reader. If you're a Filipino (Soberano is a big name over here), ALT3a might be surprising especially for people who may not have followed her career - this is exactly what the hook is for–to peak the interest of non-familiar/somewhat familiar readers about the article. This is not to cater to someone who already knows her or to "superfans", which makes your justification completely ironic, since your comment is from the perspective of someone who knows the subject. Having said that, the article is about her "roles and awards" and I don't see the relevance of incorporating her "perceived beauty" in it, which makes Alt2 a no go for me. The hook is supposed to be about her acting career not Soberano in general (or whether she is considered desirable or her appearance in a particular role). It should be fact about something interesting that she had done as an actress and I trust that the non-Filipino reviewers who have weighed in seem to think the latter alternative works.
Pseud 14 (
talk) 12:36, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Source:
USA Today - "From Larry Bird to Paul Pierce to Kevin Garnett to Jayson Tatum − and everyone in between − the one constant over the past 43 years for the team was play-by-play announcer Mike Gorman."
Overall: The article pre-expansion was 1,418 bytes, which means that the expansion needs to exceed 7,090 bytes. As of now, it seems that it is approximately ~6,400 bytes. Can anything else be added to the article, @
Aria1561:?
BeanieFan11 (
talk) 02:39, 11 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
BeanieFan11: Based on what
WP:DYKLEN says, only the prose size is considered when determining DYK eligibility, not article byte size or total character length including the lead. The prose size prior to expansion was 1,028 characters and currently the prose size stands at 5,363 characters based on a manual calculation, which is over five times the pre-expansion size.
Aria1561 (
talk) 02:53, 11 May 2024 (UTC)reply
BeanieFan11 According to the page size tool, the article had 1,421 characters of prose prior to expansion. It is currently at 6,266 characters of prose. The article needs 7,105 characters of prose to be a 5x expansion.
SL93 (
talk) 14:49, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
That's what I thought. @
Aria1561: How are you getting 1,028 characters?
BeanieFan11 (
talk) 15:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
BeanieFan11: I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding something, but is the lead not taken into account when determining prose size? If I take the 1,028 I calculated and add the lead to it, I get 1,418 which is very similar to what the tool is displaying. My belief had been that the article text following the lead was considered prose, but if that's not the case then I will further expand the article if necessary.
Aria1561 (
talk) 17:08, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
The page size automatically includes the lead, and the lead counts as prose. It is not a 5x expansion. There is no need to attempt it manually when a tool does it automatically.
SL93 (
talk) 17:17, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Very well then, I will add more to the article within the coming days.
Aria1561 (
talk) 18:22, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
BeanieFan11: I believe the article should be past the 5× expansion threshold now.
Aria1561 (
talk) 04:54, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
The Lycus valley at the Theodosian walls looking north in 1836
... that on 29 May 1453 the Ottomans penetrated
Constantinople from the Lycus valley (pictured)?
Source: This part of the walls is the most vulnerable...since here the fortifications descend in the valley of the Lycus...it was this section of the wall that was finally breached...on the morning of 29 May 1453. Freely (1991), p. 279
Overall: Article reached Good Article status within 7 days of nomination. QPQ is done. Image licensing is fine. The references look reliable and basic facts can be verified online, though I wish a more typical referencing format was used. I do recommend that the nominator adds some online, English-language references to complement the books and the two Turkish online sources used in the article.
The hook is cited within the article, although it is a little difficult to find - if it is the most important historical fact about this river, then it should be mentioned in the lead and preferably described as a sub-section, rather than mentioned in a single line by the end. For the hook itself, I think that the date isn't so important, and the strategic aspect should be emphasized more. Suggested wording: ... that weak defences around the Lycus valley played a pivotal role in the
Fall of Constantinople?InformationToKnowledge (
talk) 23:28, 10 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Thanks for pinging, I totally forgot this. I will address the concerns during the weekend.
Alex2006 (
talk) 06:09, 24 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
InformationToKnowledge:, and thanks for your review. Unfortunately, I could not find sources in English that describe Lycus geographically and hydrologically in detail. however, I have added a couple of online sources for what concerns history. I have created a subsection on the siege of Constantinople and expanded it. Regarding the hook, I think yours is definitely better:
ALT1... that weak defenses around the Lycus valley (pictured) played a pivotal role in the
Fall of Constantinople?
Question: which of the two images do you think is better? Cheers,
Alex2006 (
talk) 07:02, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Alessandro57: Great! The article is a lot better now. I think more English online sources can be added still, even if they only help to cover its military history - i.e. just today, on the event's anniversary,
this article was published and it refers to the Byzantine Emperor personally fighting in that position, which is a very interesting detail. However, that can be addressed at any time, and I am passing the nomination on this anniversary.
Question: which of the two images do you think is better? - Is the other image ? I certainly prefer that one, as the walls are more immediately visible. The image you included here looks a lot like typical countryside without zooming in closer.
InformationToKnowledge (
talk) 16:45, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith
Interesting:
QPQ: Done.
Overall: New enough, long enough, Earwig notes no notable copyvio. Hook is interesting but on an offline source (Österreich in Geschichte und Literatur, Vol. 40-41) so I am assuming good faith. QPQ is completed. Everything seems to check out!
Ornithoptera (
talk) 05:37, 7 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Soman and
Ornithoptera: This article needs a robust copy edit before it gets anywhere near the main page.--Launchballer 23:23, 25 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Sorry,
Launchballer, but you'd have to be more specific. If you have a problem with another editors tick, you should explain why. You've left drive-by comments on {toomanysections} on a number of DYK nominations in the recent past, is that the issue? --
Soman (
talk) 11:29, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I think merging some of the sections would help. I need to go out, but I'll take another look when I get back.--Launchballer 11:37, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Much of what was winding me up was the fact that many sentences were very short and jumped back and forth, I've merged some of the worst offenders. My "Early life" section header was based purely on the fact that two single-paragraph sections look odd next to two much larger sections, though I suppose this isn't a DYK issue.--Launchballer 09:47, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I'm not sure this is the correct forum, but I disagree on applying {toomanysections} rigidly. There is no problem in itself to have sections with 3-4 sentences if and when the material in that section is sufficiently distinct from another section. Sections are supposed to help with readability, and lumping prose together to create larger sections is no goal in itself. In terms of your copy-editing, you are diverging from the source material, such as,
By mixing the age of joining SPO and being a leader of the left faction, makes it seem like he was a factional leader from the onset
We have no source for Polzl "joining" the municipal council (presumably he was elected, but we don't have a reference for the exact conditions of entry).
changing "upon" to "after" regarding his arrest gaves space to interpretation of the timeframe between return and arrest.
"he and many of its other members" is backed up by what source?
I'm not saying that there shouldn't be improvements in flow of prose, but copy-editing should not tamper with the referencing. In terms of DYKINTERESTING, I think the key element here is '1945'. This was not an ordinary period in the history of the country, and Polzl is the only Communist Party cadre that had been in the government prior to arrival of Soviet troops as well as remaining in the position after the British takeover. --
Soman (
talk) 17:22, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
All I did was reword the text as it appeared, I didn't check it against the references (I don't speak German). Re: "many of its other members", I've cut "many of its", but the article said "Within the Central Committee he was one of those that [...] argued that the party should resign from the Austrian government." - does this not mean that other members argued for it as well?--Launchballer 20:07, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I started to edit the wording and came across some phrasing where the meaning is not very clear like "In 1932, he took part in building the Jungfront movement, and in Graz he worked with Otto Fischer and Willy Scholz to challenge the party leadership control over the Jungfront.". Also,
Soman you may want to double check that I've not inadvertently changed any meaning.
Rjjiii (
talk) 01:43, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
... that Peewee Jarrett went from having no offers to play
college football, a two-year span with no playing time, and being "set on quitting football", to signing into the National Football League?
Source: Eshel, Hanan; Zissu, Boaz (2019). "The Refuge Caves". The Bar Kokhba Revolt: The Archaeological Evidence. Jerusalem: Yad Izhak Ben-Zvi. pp. 62–64. ISBN 978-965-217-429-1
ALT1: ... that over 30 refuge caves, where Jewish families sought shelter from the Roman army during the
Bar Kokhba revolt, were discovered in the
Judaean Desert? Source: Eshel, Hanan; Zissu, Boaz (2019). "The Refuge Caves". The Bar Kokhba Revolt: The Archaeological Evidence. Jerusalem: Yad Izhak Ben-Zvi. pp. 62–64. ISBN 978-965-217-429-1
@
Mariamnei: Please put a link to the DYK template that you reviewed for your QPQ next to the "Reviewed" line above, or link to it below. Thanks.
Z1720 (
talk) 23:14, 23 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Makeandtoss Is the part about dying in an Israeli prison really necessary? Also, hooks are not supposed to change, so I would recommend changing recently to something else. Also, way too much focus on his death. (In the article)
48JCL(
talk) 22:26, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
... that the El-Jai cave in the
Judaean Desert, located in the modern-day
West Bank, was used by Jewish refugees escaping the Roman army circa 135 CE? Source: Eshel, H. (2003). Documents of the First Jewish Revolt from the Judean desert. In The First Jewish Revolt: Archaeology, History, and Ideology. Routledge. p. 158
ALT1: ... that a hoard discovered in the El-Jai cave contained both
Bar Kokhba and
Aelia Capitolina coins, suggesting that the city was founded and had begun minting coins before the
Bar Kokhba revolt erupted? Source: Hofman, Miriam Ben Zeev (2019). "Eusebius and Hadrian's Founding of Aelia Capitolina in Jerusalem". Electrum. 26: 120. doi:10.4467/20800909el.19.007.11210. ISSN 1897-3426.
Source:
Immediate source and
the primary source linked in that article: "The story takes place in Steam Bison, America. There, the power of highly advanced steam engines has ushered in a new world, greatly surpassing even London’s technological development."
If that hook isn't suitable, I'm not sure what else would make for a good hook in the article.
Suntooooth, it/he (
talk/
contribs) 19:51, 5 May 2024 (UTC)reply
ALT1 won't work either, because hooks must not be likely to change, and 'will' will date.--Launchballer 23:18, 5 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Launchballer: The game isn't releasing until 2025 and no main entries are planned to release before it, so I don't see how this is an issue - if this hook is promoted, it'll definitely be before 2025. I've seen other hooks use "will" for something that'll be happening in the future, but not within the time it takes for the DYK process to complete.
Suntooooth, it/he (
talk/
contribs) 23:24, 5 May 2024 (UTC)reply
ALT1 would seem to run afoul of
WP:CRYSTAL, particularly number 5, but if it doesn't, then "will" in the hook needs to be replaced with something less definite, like "is planned to" or "is set to", since there's no guarantee that the game doesn't undergo changes in emphasis or doesn't get canceled altogether. I'm sorry to hear that other hooks have used "will", because they generally shouldn't do so.
BlueMoonset (
talk) 05:23, 15 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
BlueMoonset: I've changed it to "is planned to be"; I don't fully understand how
WP:CRYSTAL applies to a non-article like a DYK hook, but I get where you're coming from regardless.
Suntooooth, it/he (
talk/
contribs) 09:22, 15 May 2024 (UTC)reply
This proposal is simply outrageous and Wikipedia should not stoop so low as to advertise this sort of thing. Regarding the requirement of "well-sourced and neutral", the article is under serious dispute over its neutrality.
Zerotalk 13:04, 13 May 2024 (UTC)reply
1. Not a serious dispute, and it will be resolved long before the reviewers will get to this DYK suggestion weeks from now.
2. Wikipedia "stooped so low" as to publish this in DYK on March 28:"... that Aaron Bushnell said that his action of setting himself on fire was less extreme than "what people have been experiencing in Palestine at the hands of their colonizers". What's the difference?
Vegan416 (
talk) 15:08, 13 May 2024 (UTC)reply
1. On the contrary, the dispute is deep and serious, making the article unstable. It definitely will not be allowed to remain in its present state. 2. While I would not have submitted the Bushnell proposal, the fact that Vegan can't see the difference between a political statement and hatred of an ethnic group is telling.
Zerotalk 08:43, 14 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Not at all. The dispute is only about how to present the background. There is no dispute about the truth of the core facts presented in the article. And unless people would try to destabilize the article nefariously to disrupt the DYK process, it would naturally stabilize long before it reaches the DYK reviewers a few weeks from now. And Zero still hasn't explained what is "outrageous" here. This is a true fact. Why should it be censored?
Vegan416 (
talk) 09:58, 14 May 2024 (UTC)reply
How is this relevant to this DYK suggestion?
Vegan416 (
talk) 15:27, 13 May 2024 (UTC)reply
These hooks are on the wrong side of
WP:DYKGRAT's prohibition against "excessively sensational or gratuitous hooks"; I would suggest proposing a new hook
Vegan416. That simply may not be possible, which is fine.
~~ AirshipJungleman29 (
talk) 10:16, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Please explain why do you think so.
Vegan416 (
talk) 10:41, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Even by the standards of the Israeli-Palestine topic area, this topic is controversial and sensational. I am using my editorial discretion, as someone who has promoted over a thousand hooks, to say that these two cross the line.
~~ AirshipJungleman29 (
talk) 11:21, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
How are these hooks more controversial and sensational than this hook that was published on DYK on March 28:"... that Aaron Bushnell said that his action of setting himself on fire was less extreme than "what people have been experiencing in Palestine at the hands of their colonizers"?
Vegan416 (
talk) 13:21, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Also, how are these hooks more controversial and sensational than this hook that was published on DYK on November 21, 2023: ".. that the novel Minor Detail is based on a true story of a 1949 gang rape and murder of a young Arab Bedouin-Palestinian girl by Israeli soldiers?"
Or that from January 24 this year: ".. that Nakba denial is a form of historical negationism pertaining to the 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight?"
Vegan416 (
talk) 19:01, 18 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Yes, I would say they're more sensational than any of those. See editorial discretion line above.
~~ AirshipJungleman29 (
talk) 01:05, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
AirshipJungleman29: Without bringing up the article content concerns, would rejecting ALT0 and only allowing ALT1 solve the issue? There do seem to be strong objections from multiple editors against ALT0.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 00:34, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Unless a new hook is proposed that can get editorial consensus, there does not seem to be a path forward for this nomination.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 09:14, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I haven't seen a reasoned explanation why this is not OK except for "editorial discretion" which might be just a fancy name for
Wikipedia:I just don't like it. Anyway, putting that aside, I'll come up with new hooks later.
Vegan416 (
talk) 12:22, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
... that one reviewer said that the VR real-time strategy game Homeworld: Vast Reaches is an "unsatisfying lite" version of
the series?
Source: "Homeworld: Vast Reaches is less a virtual reality reinvention of this legendary space RTS than it is an unsatisfying lite version for the Meta Quest 2 and 3."
[9]
ALT1: ... that the
mixed reality mode in the
real-time strategy virtual reality game Homeworld: Vast Reaches allows virtual ships to fly around the player's room? Source: "I was impressed by the unexpected ease of playing the game, but I wasn’t blown away until we switched over to Mixed Reality. In Passthrough Mode on the Quest 3, the blackness of outer space disappears, replaced with the real-life environment you’re physically in. Suddenly, the hotel room where I demoed the game became the setting of a thrilling dogfight. A bomber swooped in front of the TV set while enemy ships soared over the bed. It was quite a sight, but it was also very confusing."
[10]
Comment: Prefer ALT1, but it's tough to make it work with
WP:DYKFICTION – I've attempted to thread the needle here. If I need more ALTs, happy to pull them.
evrik, I don't think either hook is a good April Fools' candidate. I'm not sure I'd even use either as quirky.
BlueMoonset (
talk) 20:05, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Better. Full review needed.--Launchballer 14:05, 7 May 2024 (UTC)reply
evrik, I do not have full access to El Pais. Can you recheck the second paragraph of Background, the one on San Sebastián, to make sure that text is supported? Either way, I suggest adding more details from El Pais. The detail will help the article and provide good hooks. Sparks flying 1.5m from 30 running metal fire bulls; that's a hook.
CMD (
talk) 14:57, 11 May 2024 (UTC)reply
CMD, I put the
text here. The point may be moot as that section just got reorganized when I fixed the links. "
Sparks flying 1.5 meters (4 ft 11 in) from 30 running metal
fire bulls" - I'm thinking about it. --
evrik(
talk) 16:17, 11 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Not really a fan of the hook as unless the reader is familiar with either Geronimo or Velasquez, the hook may not be that appealing. To me it really only seems to appeal either to major fans of either artist. The full review is to follow but in the meantime I'm pinging
Launchballer for any ideas for possible hooks that would also appeal even to non-Filipino audiences.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 00:36, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I'll admit to being surprised at the inclusion of "Pride (In the Name of Love)" and "What the World Needs Now is Love" in the same concert, although the latter has not much more name recognition. I can also suggest the following:
@
Launchballer: ALT2 actually sounds good! However, I do wonder if having Colgate mentioned explicitly could work as an alternative option for the promoter. Will just wait for Pseud 14's thoughts on the new hooks before proceeding with the review. I'm not really a fan of ALT1 as if a reader is unfamiliar with the value of the Peso it makes less sense.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 10:18, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I think the interesting bit of ALT1 is 'some tickets were 20 times more expensive', and I would expect a {{convert}} template to be added to it anyway. I vaguely recall someone moaning at
WT:DYK about currently available commercial products, but I can propose:
Thanks for suggesting alternative hooks
Launchballer, I would go with the Alt3 hook you suggested - I disagree that "appeal" is only limited to fans of both artist. The reason for said hook is to establish that there is a history between both artists before doing the collaboration. You don't have to be familiar with them to be made aware that this fact, interestingly enough, exists. I would probably change "judging" to "hosting" or "presenting". (Alt2 I find is too common. Anyone can say an artist's concert or tour was sponsored by Pepsi)
Pseud 14 (
talk) 17:42, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Launchballer I'm good with your suggestion. As you are someone unfamiliar with them, what you put forward works. Thanks for your help on this.
Pseud 14 (
talk) 18:09, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Article appears to be new enough and long enough. A QPQ has been provided, and the hooks are cited inline.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 13:32, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
^Shaw, R., Y. Luo, T. S. Cheong, S. Abdul Halim, S. Chaturvedi, M. Hashizume, G. E. Insarov, Y. Ishikawa, M. Jafari, A. Kitoh, J. Pulhin, C. Singh, K. Vasant, and Z. Zhang, 2022:
Chapter 10: Asia. In
Climate Change 2022: Impacts, Adaptation and Vulnerability [H.-O. Pörtner, D. C. Roberts, M. Tignor, E. S. Poloczanska, K. Mintenbeck, A. Alegría, M. Craig, S. Langsdorf, S. Löschke, V. Möller, A. Okem, B. Rama (eds.)]. Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, United Kingdom and New York, New York, US, pp. 1457–1579 |doi=10.1017/9781009325844.012.
Source: Cheney, Edna Dow (2010). Louisa May Alcott: Her Life, Letters, and Journals. Carlisle, Massachussetts, USA: Applewood Books. ISBN 978-1-4290-4460-8. “Went for some weeks to the Bellevue, and wrote ‘A Modern Mephistopheles’ for the No Name Series. It has been simmering ever since I read Faust last year. Enjoyed doing it, being tired of providing moral pap for the young.” (Page 296)
Sanderson, Rena (1991). "A Modern Mephistopheles: Louisa May Alcott's Exorcism of Patriarchy". American Transcendental Quarterly. 5 (1): 41–55. ProQuest 1302638905. “After the book’s completion, Alcott commented in her journal that she ‘enjoyed doing it, being tired of providing moral pap for the young.’” (Page 41)
ALT1: ... that
Louisa May Alcott wrote A Modern Mephistopheles as part of an anonymous series in which readers were meant to guess the author? Source: Cheney, Edna Dow (2010). Louisa May Alcott: Her Life, Letters, and Journals. Carlisle, Massachussetts, USA: Applewood Books. ISBN 978-1-4290-4460-8. “‘A Modern Mephistopheles’ was written among the earlier volumes of the No Name Series, when the chief idea of the authors was to puzzle their readers by disguising their style as much as possible, that they might enjoy the guessing and criticism as each novel appeared. This book was very successful in preserving its incognito; and many persons still insist that it could not have been written by the author of ‘Little Women.’” (Cheney 379, quoting Louisa May Alcott)
... that footballer Han Bong-zin was alleged to be better than
Pelé?
Source:
Sunday Mirror ("The outstanding North Korean footballer is ... Han Bong Jin [a variation of Han Bong-zin]. Pyongyang (The Capital) Radio describes the winger modestly: 'A footballer who overshadows the world-renowned Brazilian player [Pelé]'") /
Grimsby Evening Telegraph ("Han Bong Zin is the man described by Pyongyang Radio as 'better than Pele'")
ALT1: ... that footballer Han Bong-zin was alleged to "overshadow"
Pelé? Source: same
ALT2: ... that the North Korean government claimed footballer Han Bong-zin was better than
Pelé? Source: same
ALT3: ... that the North Korean state-run media claimed footballer Han Bong-zin was better than
Pelé? Source: same
Comment: Regarding ALT2/ALT3: the sources say that it was "Pyongyang Radio". That sounds like a government/state-run program, especially since, if I remember right, the only media in North Korea is state-owned. Let me know about your thoughts on whether it is correct to describe it as the NK government/state making the claims.
Converted from a redirect by
BeanieFan11 (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 183 past nominations.
I highly doubt his notability based off a previous AfD discussion, but since the article expanded a lot, I think it is worth a shot. Unfortunately the source you gave is unreliable as it is a tabloid. And not that interested in "X is going to take over Y" kinds of facts. Otherwise, DYK would be filled with statements like "Did you know that Disney+ is going to take over Netflix as the top streaming service"?
Brachy08(Talk) 04:44, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Brachy0008: The prior AFD was very poor as none of the editors looked at Newspapers.com or discussed the fact that he's one of seven players whose life story is chronicled in the film The Game of Their Lives (SIGCOV) or that failing all else, this clearly passes
WP:NBASIC (but features like
Han Bong Jin-he dribbles like Garrincha, shoots like Charlton are clearly SIGCOV for GNG). As for the sources itself, being a tabloid alone is not enough to disqualify a source as far as I'm aware. Neither does the Grimsby Evening Telegraph even appear to be a tabloid(?). Regarding the hook, I still think it interesting as an extremely obscure player being allegedly better than possibly the greatest ever (this isn't "X is going to overtake"); that its a nation's government making the claim only adds more interest (and North Korea another added twist). Should I request another reviewer to analyze?
BeanieFan11 (
talk) 13:04, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
You can if you like. However, even if the player is very obscure, and yeah he is, still doesn’t really spark any interest.
Brachy08(Talk) 13:09, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Brachy0008: Thought of another one, in case the others don't work – what about:
Alt4 ... that footballer Han Bong-zin trained in the military every day for four years in preparation for the FIFA World Cup?
BeanieFan11 (
talk) 14:10, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
ALT4 can pass. Seems a lot more interesting than the rest. Also, source?
Brachy08(Talk) 00:04, 18 May 2024 (UTC)reply
My unsolicited comment. I think the article meets the DYK criteria, and the Alt 3, or something like that is the most interesting. --
evrik(
talk) 15:44, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Brachy0008: See
Liverpool Daily Post: For the last four years of his football career Han Bong Jin — like the rest of his colleagues -- has been preparing for the 1966 World Cup. When the North Koreans reorganised their football organisation he was one of those taken from his club and added to a squad of 40 players to be employed by the Army ... who trained for football twice a day.BeanieFan11 (
talk) 00:08, 18 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
BeanieFan11: searching it up. tabloids are usually unreliable bc they put stuff in a sensationalist light.
Brachy08(Talk) 00:18, 18 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Brachy0008: I meant, how did you determine that the Liverpool Daily Post is an unreliable tabloid?
BeanieFan11 (
talk) 00:19, 18 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Without speaking to the specific reliability and usage of Liverpool Daily Post in this instance, BeanieFan11 is correct. "Tabloid" has two different meanings, of which the infobox usage is very different than the secondary use by Brachy0008, which is shorthand for
tabloid journalism, which in turn used to refer to specific tabloids with red mastheads, known as red tops. Our article on tabloid journalism makes this distinction a bit more clear: "Not all newspapers associated with tabloid journalism are tabloid size, and not all tabloid-size newspapers engage in tabloid journalism."
Viriditas (
talk) 00:45, 18 May 2024 (UTC)reply
ALT1: ... that Mary Ann Wells(pictured), a dance teacher who believed in cultivating her students' passion for dance, influenced the style of the
Joffrey Ballet, which dedicated a season to her memory after her death? Source: Doris 2000
ALT2: ... that Mary Ann Wells(pictured), despite her association with the
"I AM" movement, focused on nurturing her students' individual talents and passions, rather than enforcing rigid standards? Source: Doris 2000
Source: Lihl, Franz; Ettmayer, Peter; Kutzelnigg, Alfred (1962). "Beitrag zum System Mangan-Stickstoff" [Report on the manganese-nitrogen system]. Zeitschrift für Metallkunde (in German). 53 (11).
DeGruyter: 715.
doi:
10.1515/ijmr-1962-531104; also comparison between Prelinger, Otto (10 May 1894).
"Über Stickstoffverbindungen des Mangans" [On the nitrogen compounds of manganese] (PDF). Monatshefte für Chemie und verwandte Teile anderer Wissenschaften (in German): 391–401 and Mekata Mamoru; Haruna Junsuke; Takaki Hideo (July 1968) [29 Jan 1968]. "Neutron diffraction study of antiferromagnetic Mn2N". Journal of the Physical Society of Japan. 23 (1): 234–238.
doi:
10.1143/JPSJ.25.234.
ALT1: ... that no binary manganese nitride salts are known with manganese oxidized past +3, but the stablest nitridomanganate ion is a manganese(V) derivative? Source: Niewa, R. (2002) [21 Aug 2001]. "Nitridocompounds of manganese". Z. Kristallogr. 217. Munich: Oldenbourg Wissenschaftsverlag: 8–23.
doi:
10.1524/zkri.217.1.8.20801.
ALT2: ... that many manganese nitride compounds are known, but only one is a
ferromagnet? Source: Gokcen, N. A. (1990). "The Mn-N (manganese-nitrogen) system". Bulletin of Alloy Phase Diagrams. 11 (1): 33–42.
doi:
10.1007/bf02841582.
GA status confirmed as recent (May 11, 2024). Size, hook, etc. all GTG, although I am not sold on the hook being particularly interesting (did you know that something you never heard about is related to something else you never heard about...). I'd be happy to review a more interesting hook if any are proposed - ping
User:Pseud 14. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 09:40, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Piotrus: Thanks for the review. Fixed some typo as the ping didn't go through. See alternatives:
Created by
Vice regent (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 10 past nominations.
VR(Please
ping on reply) 03:55, 18 May 2024 (UTC).reply
The notability of the article is questionable. If the proposal is not implemented and is replaced by another proposal (which seems to be the case at the moment) do you think anyone will be remotely interested in this article a year from now?
Vegan416 (
talk) 14:04, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
ALT0a: ... that Grace A. Johnson initially held the traditional view that women belonged at home, but her perspective shifted after attending a
pro-suffrage meeting in
Cambridge, England in 1907? Source: Same as above
ALT0b: ... that Grace A. Johnson initially held the traditional view that women belonged at home, but her perspective shifted after attending a
pro-suffrage meeting in England in 1907? Source: same as above
ALT1: ... that Grace A. Johnson initially opposed American entry into
World War I, but eventually supported the war effort after the United States declared war in 1917? Source: [1]
ALT1a: ... that after initially opposing the United States' entry into
World War I, Grace A. Johnson eventually came to support the war effort when the US declared the war in 1917? Source: same as above
It's not immediately obvious what you're talking about, and you should make it clear where this "Davidson County" place is for people who won't realize it's in North Carolina, USA. So ...
I also wonder if you were able to find any explanation for this in your research. I think it's been noted elsewhere as the only significant place in the US with LHT. And maybe we should put that in the intro.
Daniel Case (
talk) 05:17, 14 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Hmmm... I suppose that works. I'm just a little unsure about what hook exactly to choose. Yeah, I'll probably place it in the intro.
NoobThreePointOh (
talk) 09:12, 14 May 2024 (UTC)reply
ALT1: ... that the Vinland Saga anime series took liberties from the manga to properly show Thorfinn's transformation into a Viking as new scenes were added? Source: [2]
ALT2: ... that for the second season of Vinland Saga there was a proper attempt to humanize the slave Thorfinn in contrast to the benevolent owner Ketil who becomes more violent the more he appears? Source: [3]
Reviewed:
Created by
Tintor2 (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 18 past nominations.
I found multiple problems with the article, and fixed some prose, neutrality issues and a copyvio (long quote violating fair use). At this point I've edited the article too much to review it. I just want to caution the DYK reviewer to not rely on the
quick-pass at GAN. –
Reidgreg (
talk) 14:00, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Reidgreg: Thanks for the help and advice. I'll try doing the same with other articles.
Tintor2 (
talk) 18:34, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Source: Ion Căpățână, "Temoignage. Panaït Istrati ou l'homme qui n'a adhéré à rien", in Cahiers Panaït Istrati, Issue 4, December 1976, p. 24. You can read a print
here.
ALT1: ... that Alexandru Talex(pictured), who was novelist
Panait Istrati's confidant and posthumous promoter, produced "superficial, negligent, or downright aberrant" footnotes to Istrati's letters? Source: Mircea Iorgulescu, "Vieți paralele. Recunoașterea", in Vatra, Vol. XXX, Issue 391, October 2003, p. 25 -- includes both the quote and detail on Istrati's relationship with Talex (the latter is detailed in a million other sources as well).
Comment: I'm hoping this gets accepted, even though I was myself superficial, negligent, or downright aberrant in not making sure to submit it within the required interval (and just some hours over it).
Created by
Dahn (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 109 past nominations.
Interesting substantial life and work, on plenty of good-looking sources, foreign and offline sources accepted AGF, no copyvio obvious. I lean towards the original hook (as more positive about the subject), but am afraid that the organisation will not be known to many readers, and while I thing "paramilitary" is meant to explain what it is, it wasn't clear for me just from reading the hook. Could you say that differently? The image is licensed, and shows the period well. I don't mind a slightly late nom, especially of such a substantial addition to our knowledge. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 10:55, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Fair point, Gerda, and thank you for giving this article such a thorough second-look. In light of the above, how about:
Source: Kirwan, Guy M. (2021-08-18). Billerman, Shawn M.; Keeney, Brooke K.; Rodewald, Paul G.; Schulenberg, Thomas S. (eds.). "Satin Berrypecker (Melanocharis citreola)". Birds of the World. Cornell Lab of Ornithology. doi:10.2173/bow.satber1.01.
ALT1: ... that although specimens of the satin berrypecker(male pictured) were first collected in 2014, the species may have been observed as early as 1983? Source: Kirwan, Guy M. (2021-08-18). Billerman, Shawn M.; Keeney, Brooke K.; Rodewald, Paul G.; Schulenberg, Thomas S. (eds.). "Satin Berrypecker (Melanocharis citreola)". Birds of the World. Cornell Lab of Ornithology. doi:10.2173/bow.satber1.01.
ALT2: ... that the satin berrypecker(male pictured) is only the second species of bird to be described from New Guinea in the last 80 years? Source: Kirwan, Guy M. (2021-08-18). Billerman, Shawn M.; Keeney, Brooke K.; Rodewald, Paul G.; Schulenberg, Thomas S. (eds.). "Satin Berrypecker (Melanocharis citreola)". Birds of the World. Cornell Lab of Ornithology. doi:10.2173/bow.satber1.01.
Starting Review--
Kevmin§ 17:05, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Apologies for the delay in commenting here. Article is new enough and long enough. The sources are neutral and policy compliant for WP:TOL/WP:Brids articles. The article is also neutral and well written with no indications of any Copyvio/close paraphrasing issues identified. My first question is regarding the article and sources use of "endemic", am I correct in interpreting the usage to mean its assumed by the authors that the species is "restricted" in range to just the Mountains of the birds neck and not present beyond that?--
Kevmin§ 19:28, 24 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Thats what I was thinking would be the case. The article needs to have more explanation of what it means then, as read now its easy to come to the conclusion that the source states Melanocharis citreola to be the only bird found on the neck it total, rather then Melanocharis citreola being the first known bird with a range restricted to the neck.--
Kevmin§ 18:42, 25 May 2024 (UTC).reply
I don't see how anyone would come to that conclusion; the article clearly states that it's the only bird endemic to the Bird's Neck and anyone who doesn't know what endemism is can just go to the article on endemism. Also, some part of New Guinea having exactly one species of bird is such a patetly absurd conclusion I don't see why anyone would consider it.
AryKun (
talk) 13:24, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
While you and I may feel its absurd, Most people do not have the underlying background in biology to make the connections that you have. I can absolutely say that someone without understanding of endemism can and will likely make that mistake.--
Kevmin§ 16:26, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Comment only (not a review): cumbersome hook, the part "filled various roles" is pointless and superfluous to the more-than-notable statement preceding it. Just simplify the hook:
The article is long enough, new enough, and neutral. The only issues that I see are that "The film grossed over ¥10 billion, making it the second highest-grossing Japanese film of 2024 so far." needs a citation, the first paragraph needs to be cited, and that IMDb is not considered to be a reliable source for the cast.
SL93 (
talk) 06:49, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
In 2024, only two films grossed over ¥10 billion in Japan. To my surprise the best source I can find is
this.
NinetyNineDragon (
talk) 15:15, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
In addition, that is a promotional hook. It tells people "go and watch this film or else you miss out on something". Schwede66 08:31, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I believe simply the hook stating the film's commercial success does not mean it is promotional.
NinetyNineDragon (
talk) 15:15, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
The article is long enough, new enough, and neutral with reliable sources. There are no copyright violations. There are a few issues. The part with "now-famous memo" has an external link, and external links should not be in the article's body. The last part of the Cancellation section needs to be referenced. As for the hook, the article actually says, "it would have been the premier supercomputer of the era". Conway likely was referring to the world, but the quoted words do no say that.
SL93 (
talk) 23:58, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
SL93 (
talk) 23:56, 25 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Spectators follow the 77th Sydney to Hobart Yacht Race
... that there is a seasonal festival in Tasmania that has received yachties from all around the world for the New Year's celebrations for more than 30 years?
Source: Hall, C. Michael (2008-09-10). Food and Wine Festivals and Events Around the World (1 ed.). Routledge. pp. 113–130. doi:10.4324/9780080887951. ISBN 978-0-08-088795-1.
Reviewed:
Created by
Lautreca11 (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
Overall: @
Lautreca11: I copy-edited the article. As a tip, refer to
WP:SEAOFBLUE, we don't normally link common words or countries. A newly expanded article that is long enough. The article uses sources sources I cannot access, so I am going to assume good faith. The ones available are okay and mention what it is sourced. The picture is clear and free. No QPQ required; this is the first nomination. I am not approving it due to three queries. 1st: sourcing; I added a citation needed tag, that's the only issue. 2nd: neutrality, several sentences are written as promotion sentences written in a
WP:Wikivoice tone: For example: "By having a strong main theme and a high profile, the festival is popular and relevant to locals who support this event with their community energy" or "The Taste of Summer highlights the region local produce". It is not the same as saying this: "According to The Writer / The Source, [text]", "The Writer / The Source considers that [text]". I recommend you to re-read the article as if you were the reader rather than the writer and identify these sentences and quotes and attribute them to the source." 3rd: the hook. It is not directly mentioned in the article, even though it is implied, it is part of the
rules: "The facts of the hook need to appear in the article with a citation no later than at the end of the sentences in which they appear."
(CC)Tbhotch™ 19:45, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Dear Tbhotch, thanks for your message. My final submition was on the 24th so I am not sure if I can do anything else while I receive my mark. Anyway, do I have to submit a new DYK or is it possible to edit the initial one?
... that Baubau city filed two different budgets at the same time, resulting it to lose their chance at becoming capital of
Southeast Sulawesi? Source: "Beberapa sebab terpilihnya Kota Kendari sebagai Ibukota Provinsi Sulawesi Tenggara di antaranyakalah jumlah suara pada saat pemilihan untuk penentuan ibukota. Selain itu,terjadi malbirokrasi di mana ada dinas di Kota Baubau yang mengajukan anggaran dua versi dan yang mengajukan dua orang, sehingga terjadi dualisme dalam satu dinas. Akibatnya,kekacauan dalam sistem birokrasi dan tata pemerintahan sangat mungkin terjadi jika Kota Baubau menjadi ibukota provinsi. Oleh karena itu, Mendagri dan Otonomi Daerah dalam keputusannya mengesahkan Kota Kendari sebagai Ibukota Provinsi Sulawesi Tenggara." Rabani, L. O., Purwanto, B., & Margana, S. (2020). Politik dan Ekonomi di Dua Kota: Baubau dan Kendari pada tahun 1950an–1960an. MOZAIK HUMANIORA, 20(1), 39–56.
https://doi.org/10.20473/mozaik.v20i1.15746
ALT1: ... that Baubau city has a fortress made out of coral reefs and limestones? Source: "Benteng Wolio dibangun dengan bahan baku berupa batu karang, pasir, dan kapur. Dalam sistem pengetahuan setempat, bahan perekat material benteng menggunakan putih telur ayam."
https://books.google.co.id/books?id=HRHszgEACAAJ&newbks=0&hl=id&redir_esc=y (Page 49)
Not a review, but special occasion requests for more than six weeks require consensus at
WT:DYK. I'd also expect a more merciless prepbuilder to truncate ALT0 at 'time'.--Launchballer 18:33, 16 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Nyanardsan: Please complete a QPQ, and link it above. Thanks,
Z1720 (
talk) 02:11, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
QPQ added. I also would like to highlight my request once again. I am fine if it must go through consensus at WT:DYK and any modification/ALTs are also fine as long as it mentions the city's name.
Nyanardsan (
talk) 03:26, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
... that the South by South Lawn festival, which took place October 3, 2016, was modelled after and "organized together with" the
South by Southwest festival?
Source: "It was the first – and you have to presume the last – South By South Lawn. Modeled upon and organized together with the original Austin, Texas, interactive festival South By Southwest, it brought a riot of color to the usually sedate seat of the US presidency."
The Guardian
ALT1: ... that the South by South Lawn festival sign was programmed by
Adam Savage and a team from Baltimore to illuminate every time someone made a social media post with the
hashtag #sxsl? Source: "MythBusters’ Adam Savage and a team of makers from Baltimore made the giant letters “SXSL” that lit up every time someone posted to social media using the hasthag #sxsl. Artist Nathan Sawaya brought his Park People, sculptures of people made entirely of Legos."
Smithsonian Magazine
ALT3: ... that the 2016 festival South by South Lawn included a panel discussion on climate change led by
President Obama and featuring actor
Leonardo DiCaprio and Canadian climate scientist
Katharine Hayhoe? Source: "The main event was a conversation, led by President Obama, on climate change with Leonardo DiCaprio and climate scientist Katharine Hayhoe. When talking about leaders taking on climate change, DiCaprio said, “I'm so very honored and pleased to be joined onstage with one of those leaders—a President who has done more to create solutions for the climate change crisis than any other in history—President Barack Obama.” Immediately following the discussion was the domestic premiere of DiCaprio’s new climate documentary, Before the Flood."
Smithsonian Magazine
A new hook is needed here as the hook may not be interesting or understandable to a broad audience, particularly if the reader is unfamiliar with Shetty.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 13:54, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
19Arham: Can you suggest some additional hooks below?
Z1720 (
talk) 02:10, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
that Rashmika Mandanna starred in the third highest-grossing Indian film of 2023 opposite Bollywood royalty,
Ranbir Kapoor?
That doesn't seem to be much of an improvement, not to mention referring to Kapoor as "Bollywood royalty" could fall afoul of
WP:WTA.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 02:20, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
A shadow puppet depicting Xiaotian Quan and his lord
Erlang Shen.
... that Xiaotian Quan(pictured), the loyal canine companion of the deity
Erlang Shen, is worshipped as the protector of pets in Taiwan? Source: Yifang, Lian (8 November 2019).
"寵物開刀別擔心!到廟裡找哮天犬求平安". Now News (in Chinese).
ALT1: ... that the
Tibetan Mastiff breed is said to be descended from the celestial dog Xiaotian Quan(pictured)? Source:
"哮天犬食日天狗 二郎神神獸 - 大公報". Hong Kong Ta Kung Wen Wei Media Group (in Chinese). 29 September 2009.
Article is new enough, more than long enough, and very well sourced. Hook is interesting and well-sourced, with a minor problem: while the source is Taiwanese, the article does not actually state that the worship actually takes place in Taiwan. Maybe just drop "in Taiwan", especially since the article mentions other countries like Malaysia as well? ALT1 is a bit dull, ALT2 is otherwise OK but "is said to have" is a bit weak. The image would otherwise be good, but it's a bit muddy/unclear and the dog is barely visible. (Not a blocker though, the image is optional anyway).
ALT0a: ... that Anna Russell Cole(pictured), a devout
Methodist, was key in supporting
Vanderbilt University's independence from the church's hierarchy, donating to its endowment campaign? Source: Same as above.
ALT1: ... In 1926, Anna Russell Cole(pictured), a significant benefactor of
Vanderbilt University, donated $10,000 to endow the office of dean of women? Source: Same as above.
... that classrooms had to be completely dismantled Wednesdays and Fridays from one of the two buildings East Wake Academy used when opening? Source "And with church activities going on every Wednesday night and on weekends, we have to take down the classrooms [...] Each Wednesday and Friday afternoon"
ALT1: ... that the two main school buildings of East Wake Academy were located four miles apart in separate towns when opening? Source "The year-round school has had to squeeze its 462 students into two temporary sites – four miles apart. Half the school shares a building [...] in Knightdale, while the other half is in a church near Wendell."
ALT1: ... that the documentary film I Am Human has been the conversation starter for
neuroscience panel discussions at universities like
Harvard? Source:
ALT2: ... that the documentary film I Am Human "chronicles how neurotechnology could restore sight, retrain the body, and treat diseases—then make us all more than human"? Source: See the subtitle of
this WIRED article
ALT3: ... that the documentary film I Am Human has been praised for its "fundamentally optimistic" nature with relation to "neuroscience and brain medicine"? Source: "We’re in a dark moment for the tech industry: a time when some new technologies have been adopted recklessly and backfired terribly, and others have developed far more slowly than their creators hoped. Against the backdrop of this pessimism, a film like I Am Human — a fundamentally optimistic documentary about neuroscience and brain medicine — feels surprisingly refreshing."
The Verge
ALT4: ... that the documentary film I Am Human asks the existential question "what makes us human"? Source: "By the end, though, the film's central question is more of an existential one: What makes us human?"
WIRED
... that farmed birds often get marks called hock burns from the ammonia of other birds' waste?
Source: "Millions of supermarket chickens show skin burns from living in their own waste, a BBC investigation has found. 'Hock burn' is caused by ammonia from excrement"
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-68406398
ALT1: ... that farmed birds often get lesions called hock burns after living in the manure of other birds? Source:
(1)
Reviewed:
Comment: Open to other ideas of hooks here. Before expansion, the page size plugin showed a prose size of "617 B (106 words)", but now shows "3384 B (573 words)", so is more than 5x larger in bytes and in words
5x expanded by
TB5ivVaO1y55FkAogw1X (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
Also I now realize that I'm not 100% sure if I selected the correct date when submitting this. I started working to expand the article on the 18th, but didn't finish until around today. Let me know if I filled this out incorrectly
TB5ivVaO1y55FkAogw1X (
talk) 02:27, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
The article notes: "Thomas, who has appeared on NBC’s “Last Comic Standing” and has made several other national appearances, started comedy after six years as a car salesman selling Toyotas."
The article notes: "BEST LOCAL COMEDIAN BOA AWARD WINNER. Year » 2006. Section » Print Features » Special Issue » Best of Atlanta » 2006 » Poets, Artists, & Madmen » Critics Pick Drew Thomas"
ALT1: ... that some observers credit the ZX Spectrum(pictured) for boosting the British
IT industry amid the early 1980s recession? Source: Williams, Chris (23 April 2007).
"Sinclair ZX Spectrum: 25 today". The Register.
London: Situation Publishing.
Archived from the original on 18 July 2018. Retrieved 14 September 2008.
Wonderful to see that this machine (with a great keyboard... at least it's no Sinclair 1000 eh?) be promoted to good article status. Earwig's is clean, was promoted to GA a few days ago. For the first hook, neither of the given sources say how long the computer was a bestseller for -- the BBC source only says The ZX Spectrum may have been Britain's best-selling computer. ―Panamitsu(talk) 09:08, 23 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I did my own digging into the claim and found out that the
Amstrad PCW actually outsold the ZX Spectrum some time in the 1990s (8 million units of the PCW across all models by at latest 1998 vs. 5 million units of the Spectrum across all units by 1992). In light of that, here's an alternative hook. Pinging @
Panamitsu and
Jaguar:DigitalIceAge (
talk) 23:55, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
DigitalIceAge: I'm a bit puzzled with the given sources. The Guardian one doesn't appear to mention the ZX Spectrum at all; the Micro Mart appears to say with Raspberry Pi sales reporting, people forgot that the Amstrad PCW had outsold the ZX Spectrum; the Independent source talks the Pi rather than the ZX Spectrum. Am I completely overlooking something? ―Panamitsu(talk) 06:51, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Panamitsu: The Guardian source is there to establish that the PCW had surpassed the Spectrum in sales by the time of the PCW's discontinuation in 1998. The Micro Mart is there to establish explicitly that the PCW outsold the Spectrum. The Independent source is... pretty much redundant, so I've removed it. I think this shouldn't fall afoul of
WP:SYNTH, as
WP:CALC allows us to do routine calculations like numerical comparisons. If this is too SYNTH-y, though, I'm not opposed to other hooks.
DigitalIceAge (
talk) 08:14, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
DigitalIceAge: Honestly this is too SYNTH-y for my liking. My interpretation of
WP:CALC is more of something like "The 2016 Kaikōura earthquake occurred 6 years after the 2010 Canterbury earthquake." Anyway, I think it could have something to the effect of "is one of the best selling British computers", as it is brought up in the Raspberry Pi source, or we can have another hook. ―Panamitsu(talk) 11:32, 30 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Tyla (left) and
Gunna (right) filming the music video for "Jump" in South Africa
... that a fusion of international talent "Jump" by South African singer Tyla, American rapper Gunna and Jamaican singer as well as rapper Skillibeng is a collaborative song which blends Tyla's melodious vocals, Gunna's rap prowess, and Skillibeng's dancehall flair, marking a vibrant cross-genre collaboration that's making waves globally? Source: ' ' 'Source:' ' '
For 6 consecutive weeks, the song has maintained the number one position on the UK's biggest premier chart for afrobeats songs, which ranks them according to sales and streams over a 7 day period:
[19]
American rapper Gunna and South African singer Tyla traveled to Johannesburg, South Africa, Tyla's hometown, to film the official music video:
[20]
Reviewed:
Comment: "Jump" by Tyla, Gunna and Skillibeng achieved remarkable success, reaching the number 1 spot on The UK’s biggest Afrobeats songs chart for six consecutive weeks. The collaboration between American rapper Gunna , Jamaican musician Skillibeng and South African singer Tyla, filmed in Johannesburg, South Africa, showcases the global appeal and cross-cultural influence of contemporary music. The song's popularity underscores the growing recognition and appreciation of African music on an international scale. "Jump" exemplifies the fusion of diverse musical styles and talents, resulting in a chart-topping hit with widespread appeal. "Jump" has earned millions of streams and downloads worldwide since its release.
Created by
Qaqaamba (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
Hooks should contain a bolded link to the article and be
under 200 characters long, so I've struck it. Please propose something much shorter.--Launchballer 12:48, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
ALT1: ... that "Jump" is a cross-genre collaboration blending South African singer
Tyla's vocals, American rapper
Gunna's
trap, and Jamaican musician
Skillibeng's
dancehall? "Jump" stands out as the sole
hip hop or trap and dancehall infused song on Tyla's eponymous debut studio album,
Tyla.
Qaqaamba (
talk) 13:23, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
162 characters after adding an
oxford comma, which I have added to the article title. Full review needed.--Launchballer 14:59, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Article is well sourced and neutral. It's new enough and long enough. QPQ looks to be underway at
Template:Did you know nominations/American Colossus: Big Bill Tilden and the Creation of Modern Tennis. I agree that the hooks could be more interesting, and I think it's because it glosses over why this person is notable. (Both in the hook and in the article body.) Following the links the article about the man himself, there's probably a way to describe at least one aspect of what earned him coverage in reliable sources. Either his fiction, his personal life, or both.
Shooterwalker (
talk) 15:57, 23 May 2024 (UTC)reply
WP has strong precedent for discussing any fictional events in present tense, i.e. "becomes" instead of "became"
Orchastrattor (
talk) 19:19, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
... that
Rubella vaccine developer Paul Parkman reflected at the end of his career that “It will be for others to take on the difficult task of maintaining the protections that we struggled to achieve"?
Source: "Dr. Paul D. Parkman, whose research was instrumental in identifying the virus that causes rubella and developing a vaccine that has prevented an epidemic of the disease in the United States for more than 50 years, died on May 7 at his home in Auburn, N.Y., about 60 miles east of Rochester in the Finger Lakes region. He was 91.
“As I look back on my career, I have come to think that perhaps I was involved in the easy part,” he added. “It will be for others to take on the difficult task of maintaining the protections that we struggled to achieve. We must prevent the spread of this vaccine nihilism, for if it were to prevail, our successes could be lost.”"
Source: "Akinada Tobishima Kaido: The collective term for the seven bridges connecting Kure City and the islands of the Aki Sea in Hiroshima Prefecture. ""Tobishima"" is derived from ""tobi-ishi"", meaning ""stepping stones,"" due to the islands' appearance resembling the stepping stones of a garden.[1]
Comment: I personally prefer ALT0. After carefully re-reading the source (and watching the video linked in the article) I am proposing the following ALT in place of ALT0:
ALT0a: ... that five Hamad City apartment buildings were destroyed in the space of just two minutes?
Havradimleaf a message 12:56, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Created by
Havradim (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
... that Magic: The Gathering player Pascal Maynard(pictured), criticized for drafting a card to sell rather than play, founded a Magic card store?
Source:
https://dotesports.com/general/news/pascal-maynard-tarmogoyf-magic-the-gathering-2014 - " Pascal Maynard ... had finally made Top 8, the final table, at Magic’s largest tournament in history and came face to face with one of the most valuable cards in the set. And it was absolutely useless for him. ... Pros seemed outraged that a player calling himself professional would choose the money over a better chance at winning."
https://monsaintroch.com/2020/nouvel-univers-magique-jeux-saint-roch/ "Le quartier Saint-Roch accueille depuis la mi-octobre une boutique de jeux .... Projet de Pascal Maynard, La Boutique Mythique propose des jeux de cartes, principalement Magic the Gathering."
transl. "Since mid-October, the Saint-Roch district has been home to a game store ... A project of Pascal Maynard, La Boutique Mythique offers card games, mainly Magic the Gathering."
Source: Branagh, Kenneth (1991). Beginning. New York: St. Martin's Press. ISBN 978-0-312-05822-7., p.153: "Jimmy and I enlisted the help of Brian Blessed, the Company’s fitness fanatic, who agreed to take us through a training programme"
ALT1: ... that before reading the script for the play Golden Girls, at least nine of the cast members were under the impression that they would be taking the lead role? Source: Branagh, Kenneth (1991). Beginning. New York: St. Martin's Press. ISBN 978-0-312-05822-7., p.152: "I asked around. Jimmy Yuill, Josette Simon, Polly James, Kate Bufferey. They were all playing the lead, and that made nine of us in total."
Source:
Eisenstein, Judah D. (1970). A Digest of Jewish Laws and Customs - in Alphabetical Order (Ozar Dinim u-Minhagim) (in Hebrew). Tel-Aviv: Ḥ. mo. l. pp. 228–229 (s.v. מלחמה).
OCLC54817857.;
Babylonian Talmud, Kiddushin 21b–22a
Reviewed:
Created by
Davidbena (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 6 past nominations.
Drive by comment: "forcibly have marital relations" should either be changed to "rape and forcibly marry" or attributed to a source, this is far too euphemistic to have in Wikipedia's voice.
Rusalkii (
talk) 05:03, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Okay, I'll make the change, although I do think that it is a bit too strong.
Davidbena (
talk) 11:44, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Source: "Khirbet el-Qutt -A Fortified Jewish Village in Southern Samaria from the Second Temple Period and the Bar Kokhba Revolt"; "Jewish Settlement in the Toparchy of Acraba during the Second Temple Period - The Archaeological Evidence". Judea and Samaria Research Studies8. 18: 177–200 – via academia.edu; "תולדות היישוב בהר שומרון בתקופה הרומית־ביזנטית". kotar.cet.ac.il. Retrieved 2024-05-21.
Reviewed:
Created by
Owenglyndur (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
Comment: I'd like to request for the date to be June 27th since that day is the third anniversary of the opening of the line and the third anniversary of the phrase being said.
On another note, as I will be going to China from tomorrow until the 30th, and as most will know Wikipedia can't be used in China, I'd appreciate some patience if I don't answer until after that date. I might use roaming to make minor edits or answer some questions before then, but I likely won't make any large-scale edits until after.
Created by
S5A-0043 (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 6 past nominations.
Comment (not a full review). Per the spirit of
WP:BLP, I do not think an article about an autistic boy who became an internet meme is suitable for the Main Page, especially if the full name is mentioned. (The original media reports used 羅先生 (Mr. Law) or 羅同學 (Classmate Law); I do not know when and which HK media started using the full name). The article itself mentions doxxing and negative attention; posting on our Main Page has the potential to lead to further harm. I would suggest not to post this without clear consensus otherwise from a place like
the BLP noticeboard. —
Kusma (
talk) 16:07, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
... that while reviewers generally praised The Rise and Fall of the Dinosaurs, one reviewer complained that
the author "was so nice about his colleagues that it makes you long for a juicy academic vendetta"?
Comment: I don't have a direct source for generally positive reviews, but I haven't been able to find a single review that didn't primarily praise the book. If this is an issue I can reword the hook to exclude that.
Created by
Rusalkii (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
Comment — I would probably add one or two supporting details to the hook to make it more interesting. A lot of people get sentenced to death, what makes Touré's sentence special? You could give the specific reason(s) or emphasize the fact that Touré, who served as an elected member of Burkina Faso's parliament, had previously been sentenced to death. Thus, despite a previous sentence, he went on to represent his country.
Yue🌙 18:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)reply
How about ALT1, "... that the Burkinabé trade union leader Soumane Touré was sentenced after being accused of collaboration with counter-revolutionaries, but his life was saved through the intervention of then President
Thomas Sankara?" --
Soman (
talk) 09:45, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
... that
Gramercy Pictures attempted to build publicity for Dazed and Confused by screening the film to antidrug and Christian groups to force a protest?
Source: Maerz, Melissa (2020). Alright, Alright, Alright: The Oral History of Richard Linklater's Dazed and Confused. HarperCollins. pp. 313-324
ALT1: ... that
Richard Linklater's original concept for Dazed and Confused took place entirely within a car as its characters listened to
ZZ Top? Source: Spitz, Marc (December 26, 2013). "An Oral History of Dazed and Confused". Maxim. Archived from the original on April 28, 2017. Retrieved May 7, 2017.
Reviewed:
Improved to Good Article status by
Lbal (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
I like the first DYK idea, especially how the studio forced a protest to bring attention to the movie. It's also reasonably sourced. Yoshiman6464♫🥚 14:04, 23 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Oracle bone inscription on an ox scapula, 11th century BCE
... that according to legend, the invention of Chinese characters(
oracle bone pictured) caused grain to rain from the sky and ghosts and demons to wail in frustration? Source: According to one tradition, Chinese characters were invented during the 3rd millennium BCE by
Cangjie, a scribe of the legendary
Yellow Emperor. Cangjie is said to have invented symbols called 字 (zì) due to his frustration with the limitations of knotting, taking inspiration from his study of the tracks of animals, landscapes, and the stars in the sky. On the day that these first characters were created, grain rained down from the sky; that night, the people heard the wailing of ghosts and demons, lamenting that humans could no longer be cheated.[1][2]
ALT1: ... that the oldest known Chinese characters were recorded on
oracle bones(example pictured)? Source: The oldest attested Chinese writing comprises a body of inscriptions produced during the
Late Shang period (
c. 1250 – 1050 BCE), with the very earliest examples from the reign of
Wu Ding dated between 1250 and 1200 BCE.[3][4]
Reviewed:
Improved to Good Article status by
Remsense (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
Source: The entry in the
Canterbury Dictionary of Hymnology: "Almost all commentators quote from John Wesley’s obituary of his brother at the Methodist Conference of 1788: ‘His least praise was his talent for poetry: although Dr Watts did not scruple to say, that “that single poem, Wrestling Jacob, was worth all the verses he himself had written”.’"
... that the sedge Schoenoplectus triqueter (pictured) can grow up to 1.5 metres (4 ft 11 in) tall, but with stems less than one-half centimetre (0.20 in) across?
Starting Review--
Kevmin§ 04:27, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
First question/note on the article is that the species presence in North America is only mentioned in the lede, but not at all covered in the distribution section. Ideally there shouldn't be citations in the lede so the mention of the Columbia River basin should be covered in distribution and elaborated on (what part of the columbia as is a large basin that covers a number of biozones.--
Kevmin§ 22:59, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Okay, I'll look for more sources and expand the Distribution section tomorrow. Cheers,
Cremastra (
talk) 01:35, 30 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Length, date, hook ok. No qpq needed. But too much close paraphrase from the ref GeorgiaBeforePeople, which furthermore is a blog and thus not
WP:RS. --
Soman (
talk) 21:13, 25 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Comment:
User:Alex 21 moved the article to the mainspace. While I am the primary author, a few other editors have contributed significantly to the article.
Moved to mainspace by
TheDoctorWho (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
Thank you for the extra ALT hooks! I originally had something similar to ALT4 drafted up, but I rewrote it because the source doesn't explicitly state that it was the fourth episode to omit it. While I don't dispute it's a fact, we only have two separate sources that previously three other previous episodes that exclude it, but not that those are the only three. It was a slight case of
WP:SYNTH and should probably be re-written in the article, unless such a source exists. That said, I don't have a problem with ALT3 if a reviewer chooses to accept it, but I do of course have a slight preference for the ones that I wrote 😅.
TheDoctorWho(talk) 04:16, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
... that a critic said that the
hors d'oeuvres served at Sud 777 could function as desserts and vice versa?
Source:
[22]ABC (newspaper): "Cocina que rompe esquemas en cuanto al orden y en la que algunos entrantes podrían ser postres y algunos postres entrantes [A cuisine that breaks the rules in terms of order and in which some starters could be desserts and some desserts could be starters]"
ALT1: ... that experts at the National Gallery in London believe that Anthony van Dyck executed a painting(pictured) of the subject's head and collar but over the years other artists expanded it? Source:
page 72
ALT2: ... that a portrait(pictured) at the National Gallery in London is considered a "problem painting" because it was
skinned and the early provenance is not known? Source:
page 71
... that Brittany Luse's podcast The Nod was praised for its exploration of "the diversity and richness of the Black experience"? Source: “ Like the podcast that inspired the Quibi show, it’s a project that draws from the diversity and richness of the Black experience”
Teen Vogue
ALT1: ... that the Oxtongue River was a
canoe route for indigenous people is still used for recreational
canoeing? Source: Refs #5 and #6
ALT2: ... that the Oxtongue River(pictured) flows through an ancient glacial spillway that drained meltwaters from the Algonquin Highlands into
Lake Algonquin? Source: Ref #6 (Oxtongue River-Ragged Falls Provincial Park Management Plan)
ALT1: ... that the Nabisco Shredded Wheat Factory was so attractive its image was printed on cereal packets until 1960? Source: Butterfield (1999) p.136
Reviewed:
Comment: Butterfield 1999 [The European Cities and Technology Reader: Industrial to Post-industrial City] available on the open library, but I can send extracts if needed. No preference for either hook, feel free to modify as needed.
Moved to mainspace by
Pahunkat (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
... that the two songs of Op. 1 by
Arnold Schönberg(pictured), "Abschied" (Farewell) and "Dank" (Thanks), were first performed in Vienna in 1900, with
Zemlinsky at the piano, to a hostile reaction of the audience? Source:
Gerlach
Comment: We are in a Schönberg year. I couldn't believe his Op. 1 (not 12-tone yet, rather expressionist but no room for that in a hook) had no article. Planning to write more about text and music but busy the next few days. I believe we should picture him this year ;)
Created by
Gerda Arendt (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 2107 past nominations.
Great work as always on these pieces. QPQ, article eligibility, source, and general presentation checks out. The hook seems like it could be condensed just a tad to ease readability; maybe something along the lines of "the first public performance of two songs from
Arnold Schoenberg's (pictured)Op. 1 was met with hostile reactions from the audience?" The picture is pretty nice!
Generalissima (
talk) (it/she) 23:23, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Thank you fort the review! Yes, it could be condensed, but what would be left had much in common with other pieces, and I find the position of pictured awkward. We should also not say that in Wikipedia voice when it was the wording of one critic, also the ridicule in the other's wording was perhaps a bit more unique. "two songs from" is correct but misleading, because the opus is exactly these two songs. Please give me some more days to write about text and music, both loaded with emotion which the titles suggest a bit, I think. (But Schönberg knew why he didn't call them simply lieder (songs) but - like Brahms sometimes - Gesänge, a more sophisticate form for which English has no word, or has it? Then we could use that.) - You could also listen. I did, see the
Liviu Holender hook. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 05:39, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Zemlinsky was not only the pianist, but Schönberg's teacher, the dedicatee of the songs, and to become his brother in law. Some will associate that with the name. He is also one of the composers whose music was banned by the Nazis, see the Holender hook. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 05:42, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I have to agree with Generalissima here. The original hook has too much detail and is thus too dense. The alternative wording proposed is direct to the point and makes the point of the hook clearer. Readers might get lost with the first hook, the second hook is much more understandable.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 03:43, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
While all this is true and not new: we celebrate 150 years of Schönberg and his music, and it's nothing new and no surprise that people react to it with hostility. I was surprised that his first works were songs. I was surprised that they were recorded by four of the greatest names singing and playing (but you may not know them so I dropped the idea of saying that). I was surprised to learn how close Zemlinsky was to him, not just teacher but friend and later family. - Did you listen? - The music of these two composers were banned by the Nazis, - we could do a bit more positive for it than saying the reaction was hostility, no? - On 29 May
The Rite of Spring was premiered to an almost riot, DYK? --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 08:23, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
As a compromise, can't we just go with Generalissima's wording? It basically says the same thing as the original hook except more concisely, and if the point is to promote Schoenberg, they still do it.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 09:28, 30 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Hey man im josh: Looking at the link, I see Wojciechowicz (1), Graham (2), Tittle (3), Karras (4), B. Sanders (5), Johnson (6), Stanfel (7), Biletnikoff (8), Barney (9), Lary (10), C. Sanders (11), Christiansen (12), Schmidt (13), Speedie (14) and Creekmur (15). Am I missing something?
BeanieFan11 (
talk) 16:59, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
BeanieFan11: Looks like it was me who was missing something. I believe I accidently counted
Doak Walker, who wasn't actually drafted by the Lions. I've updated this nom and the article appropriately. I also updated the DYK statement's wikilinking (but not the wording outside of the number of players).
Hey man im josh (
talk) 17:10, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
... that the Eocene fish Erismatopterus has been preserved in shoaling formation?
Source: Mizumoto, N.; Miyata, S.; Pratt, S.C. (2019), "Inferring collective behaviour from a fossilized fish shoal"
ALT1: ... that young Erismatopterus formed shoals as a likely way to avoid predators? Source: Mizumoto, N.; Miyata, S.; Pratt, S.C. (2019), "Inferring collective behaviour from a fossilized fish shoal"
... that a mail-order catalogue offered a "Rocking Ram" toy designed by Charleen Kinser for $1600 in 1985?
Source: Gilman-Tompkins, Sherri (8 May 1985). "Tiniest Yuppies Treated Royally in this Catalogue". Chicago Tribune – via
ProQuest. Take the $1,600 Rocking Ram by Forever Toys, which will be available in the next catalogue. The animal's fleece is made of three types of sheepskin, hand pieced and stitched.
Reviewed:
Comment: I will do a QPQ shortly
Created by
Gråbergs Gråa Sång (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 9 past nominations.
Source: Murphy, Aisling (2023-08-25). "Mississauga man behind Canadian self-harm websites linked to 88 deaths in the U.K." CTV News Toronto. Retrieved 2024-05-29.
Comment: I don't think there's any way to prevent a protracted debate about BLP, but I'd say that ship has
long-sincesailed when it comes to negative DYK hooks. Furthermore, Law has already publicly stated he sold the substance, the only question is whether he sold it illegally.
Moved to mainspace by
Bremps (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 8 past nominations.
Also noting that Peel Police had investigated suspicious deaths before the The Times article, but there is no indication that they knew about Law or had been planning on arresting him speedily. The CTV article states that the exposé lead to Law's arrest, which should be enough as a citation.
Bremps... 21:14, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Source: Summary of the article sections 'Rise to power' and 'Downfall and death'.
ALT1: ... that the attempts of
Fatimidvizieral-Ma'mun al-Bata'ihi to construct an astronomical observatory led to rumours of his wanting to use it to predict the future or perform magics? Source: Halm, p. 139: "im Volk munkelte man gar, dieser habe mit Hilfe des Saturn die Zukunft zu ergründen oder Magie zu treiben versucht"
... that all solutions of the Erdős–Moser equation correspond to
convergents of
ln(2), yielding "one of very few instances where a large scale computation of a numerical constant has an application"?
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Source 1 states: "The number of sit-down strikes in 1936, 1937, and 1938 by months, with the number' of workers involved, is given in table 16."
Table 16 lists the same numbers of strikes given in source 2 below. It lists workers involved as follows:
1936: 87,817
1937: 398,117
1938: 28,749
Source 2 states: "In 1936 there were 48 so-called sit-down strikes.
In 1937 the number increased to 477, but by 1938 they decreased to
52. There were only 6 strikes during 1939 in which all or part of the
strikers remained at their workplaces for one or more days after
ceasing work. he number of workers idle in connection with these
6 strikes was 3,416, although the number participating in the sit-down
or stay-in feature is not known."
This sentence involves a very encyclopedic form of synthesis in that it adds numbers from two consecutive studies by the same source. Similar synthesis, but without inclusion of the latter number appears in Sidney Fine's book Sitdown, cited in the article.
QPQ not needed, expansion is recent and article is long enough. Hook is properly sourced. However, Earwig detected a 43.2% similarity. Before I pass this nom, I think it would be suitable to trim down some quotes, if possible.
Davest3r08>:3(
talk) 22:33, 14 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I've reviewed the
Earwig similarity report, which highlights passages that are either in quotes or comprise part of citations (including the journal name and another cited article). The longest passage is the summary of the Matignon Agreement, a quotation I don't think I can improve upon. I've revised the article to reduce the amount of material directly quoted from Torigian and from Adamic, but keep Adamic's longer definition and Torigian's POV that the mid-1930s strikes were a distinct phase of using the tactic. Let me know whether you think
these changes sufficiently reduce the reliance of direct quotations.--
Carwil (
talk) 13:29, 15 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Upon additional consideration, I'm fine with the wikivoice thing.
RoySmith(talk) 21:52, 15 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Replying here as I'm traveling and on mobile only: Hmm... I'm not sure this makes sense as a general principle for DYK hooks (in voice sourcing for official statistics), though I'm not adverse to a "by official counts" phrase being added. There's no reason to suspect that the government counted any non-existent strikes and political reasons to suspect that this government attempted to both be complete in its count and to accurately report both the rise and fall of the phenomenon in its counts. Unintended errors of categorization could fall in both ways. But this seems like the kind of fact routinely sourced in a footnote in a lead section or DYK. - -
User:Carwil
Alt0a ... that by official counts there were 583 sitdown strikes in the United States from 1936 to 1939, affecting over a half-million workers?
Alt0b ... that according to the
U.S. Department of Labor there were 583 sitdown strikes in the United States from 1936 to 1939, affecting over a half-million workers?
I wonder if there were exactly 583 sitdown strikes between 1936 and 1939 – I think that there should be some lip service to the idea that a figure like that probably can't be exact. Attributing inline makes sense to me, if only briefly.
theleekycauldron (
talk • she/her) 19:14, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Comment - @
Carwil: there are still some citation needed templates in the article itself, which need fixing. Plus we need a consensus on which hook to use. If this isn't resolved soon, this may have to be rejected and archived. Cheers —
Amakuru (
talk) 20:27, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
LunaEcplise: I think the sourcing problems are fixed. What about the hooks? --
evrik(
talk) 01:56, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
... that early environmentalists like Cora Babbitt Johnson almost prevented the carving of Mount Rushmore? Source: Smith, Rex Alan (January 1, 1985). The Carving of Mount Rushmore. New York City: Abbeville Press. pp. chapter 2 and chapter 5; Fite, Gilbert Courtland (1952). Mount Rushmore. Internet Archive. Norman : University of Oklahoma Press; Merritt, Riley (2024-04-01). "Borglum's Horse Flies: The Early Opposition to Mount Rushmore". Honors College Theses.
Overall: The nominated article has one paragraph without a citation. The uncited paragraph could be supported in part by pages 11 and 121 of Mount Rushmore by Gilbert C. Fite, it talks about the Hot Springs Star's editorial stance.
https://archive.org/details/mountrushmore00univ/page/121 I also suggest that an alternate wording like "that early environmentalists like
Cora Babbitt Johnson almost prevented..." rather than the current wording. Update:Thanks to
Mary Mark Ockerbloom for working on the reference problems on the article. Do either of the two nominators,
Borg Axoim or
Crunchydillpickle, have any final thoughts or last minute suggestions?
🌿MtBotany (
talk) 03:52, 29 April 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Borg Axoim, @
Crunchydillpickle and @
MtBotany Where does the wiki article state that the carving of Mount Rushmore was "almost prevented?" Unless there's genuine evidence from the cited source that the project was almost going to be shut down (if so, that should be added in), letters of opposition, protests, and halts do not equal "preventions." This needs to be addressed first before promotion.
PrimalMustelid (
talk) 19:46, 7 May 2024 (UTC)reply
You're right,
PrimalMustelid sloppy reviewing on my part. One of the project's promotors (Robinson) said that her editorials against the project, "might produce a real disaster." The strongest that could be said is something like "environmentalists delayed the carving of Mount Rushmore" and I don't know that such as statement would be surprising/interesting. If Borg Axoim or Crunckydillpickle are interested in a rewrite of the hook there is a lot of support for something like "the artist who carved Mt. Rushmore called Cora Johnson and other environmentalists opponents "horseflies"."
🌿MtBotany (
talk) 17:45, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
PrimalMustelid and
MtBotany, you're right that the wording may not be ideal. Two of the sources (Fite and Merritt) mention how Cora Babbitt Johnson swayed the South Dakota governor against the project and that he delayed the project severely. Given that, I think it would be fair to say something like "
Cora Babbitt Johnson and other environmentalists lobbied South Dakota governor
Carl Gunderson, who halted the Mount Rushmore project until the end of his term". Would that be interesting enough? It could still use some rewriting.
User:Borg_Axoim 7:45, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
@
Borg Axoim: thoughts on ALT1? If okay, review needed for it (hopefully from MtBotany).
theleekycauldron (
talk • she/her) 19:19, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
theleekycauldron I think ALT1 is good. I have some small concerns about the Rex Alan Smith source, primarily that it doesn't cite info and has clear bias, but I like the rewrite.
user: Borg_Axoim 12:55, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Overall: This nomination still needs work. As it's your first nomination, I'm happy to give you time to improve this. But, at minimum, you need to settle on an interesting hook with a reliable source that you can clearly cite for it. Unsourced sections need to either be removed, or reliable sources cited inline with them.
Grnrchst (
talk) 13:43, 17 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Suggestion: if you find a source for current use of the same routes, that might be interesting (enough)?
FortunateSons (
talk) 17:56, 18 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Marking as rejected due to a lack of response from
Owenglyndur. If they do not respond in the next few days, this can be closed as rejected.
Z1720 (
talk) 15:29, 10 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Z1720, it appears that Owenglyndur responded to your original post on their talk page on 5 May rather than here, and made a number of edits to the article that same day. Do issues remain? Also pinging original reviewer
Grnrchst.
BlueMoonset (
talk) 04:34, 11 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I'd be ok with passing this review now, as the biggest issues with the article and hook have been sufficiently addressed. There's still some bits that lack inline citations, but some of them make clear what they're citing in the text and others are rather minor things in larger paragraphs that contain inline citations elsewhere. --
Grnrchst (
talk) 08:11, 11 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Grnrchst and
Owenglyndur: A hook cannot run at DYK with missing inline citations. This will need to be resolved.
Z1720 (
talk) 16:38, 11 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Thanks for your comments i will work on them. I will let you know once its ready. So we will be able to publish the DYK then?
Owenglyndur (
talk) 07:42, 12 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Hook should be a Monty Python reference imo. (
t ·
c) buidhe 03:19, 12 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Buidhe: absolutely :) i don't know the sketch well enough, but if you've got something in your back pocket, that'd be hilarious.
theleekycauldron (
talk • she/her) 19:24, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Owenglyndur: it looks like there are still some missing inline citations. (Also, this article could use a stiff copyedit.) The nomination can move forward when the issues are addressed (although it does take a while), but could the issues be addressed within a week?
theleekycauldron (
talk • she/her) 19:22, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Thanks for you comment, i did what i could to correct the article, If it is still not enough, you can remove it from DYK status
Owenglyndur
@
Grnrchst: As the original reviewer, have your concerns been resolved, and is this hook approved? If not, what else needs to be done?
Z1720 (
talk) 14:02, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Z1720: Yes, my concerns have been resolved, as all of the paragraphs now have inline citations. I'm happy to approve this. --
Grnrchst (
talk) 09:21, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Grnrchst: If this is approved, please add the green tick below.
Z1720 (
talk) 15:58, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Grnrchst,
Z1720, and
Owenglyndur: I've noted some significant issues with verifiability on the article talk page, but they have not been addressed. I have not gone through the article with a fine-tooth comb so there may be other issues. Regrettably, as a Monty Python hook would have been fun, I do not think the article is ready to be approved.
Richard Nevell (
talk) 18:34, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Retracted my pending approval, per Richard's comments. Looking at the talk page, there's definitely some major issues with it that are keeping this from being approved. --
Grnrchst (
talk) 09:13, 30 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Blaylockjam10: I studied the source and cannot find the hook. Can you lead me to it?
Bruxton (
talk) 02:56, 1 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Bruxton: It’s under “Regular Season (Complete Stats)”. It looks like it may only be visible on a computer.
Blaylockjam10 (
talk) 11:33, 2 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Looks like I need a premium membership to view. I will leave this to another reviewer.
Bruxton (
talk) 04:02, 4 May 2024 (UTC)reply
If "S TEAM LEAGUE GP GD GAA SV% GA SV SO W-L-T TOI" and "2022-23 Avtomobilist Yekaterinburg KHL 1 4 - - - - 0 0-0-1 0:00" means what I think it means, then a) you don't need a premium membership to view and b) I think the hook checks out with the source, depending on what "W-L-T" means, although I haven't yet looked at the article. I'm a bit worried about the phrases "submit stats/facts" and "edit profile" I found on the source - what makes it reliable?--Launchballer 11:57, 4 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Launchballer I saw the same, which made me feel like it was a contributor site. Honestly I was just lost on that page. I think W is win L is loss and T is tie. It is a clever hook which drew me to the nomination, but then I found myself lost for a half hour clicking on pull down menus until I got to a paywall. @
BeanieFan11: may be able to help.
Bruxton (
talk) 14:55, 4 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I'm not seeing the TOI part of the Elite Prospects link but based on how he played in the game that would make sense.
NHL says that he was the goaltender for only the shootout portion in his only game, which would mean that he "officially" had zero minutes since the shootout isn't timed. (Also, I've come across Elite Prospects a number of times – they seem pretty reliable (don't think I've seen an incorrect stat, although I've only used them in writing ~10 hockey articles) and seem to have a staff – also cited
~20,000 times). I'd say it's good for approving as long as the article itself is fine.
BeanieFan11 (
talk) 16:08, 4 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Blaylockjam10 I located the minutes played after being guided.
Earwig determined that there is some minor
WP:CLOP which needs to be addressed. Also probably not a DYK issue, but consider that we probably do not need a
section for three words - it should be combined somewhere. Also the lead should introduce/summarize more of the article; right now it is a single sentence. The hook is interesting and the article is neutral with the correct inline citations. Created on April 19 nominated April 26 so the article is new enough and with 2344 the article is long enough.
Bruxton (
talk) 18:52, 4 May 2024 (UTC)reply
... that a new subspecies of giant sengi was discovered in 2021? Source: "Despite the pelage differences, initial DNA comparisons found it nearly identical to R. chrysopygus. A later DNA comparison supported a designation of a new subspecies, Rhynchocyon chrysopygus mandelai as it diverges in pelage and is allopatric to R. chrysopygus (Agwanda et al. 2021)."
ALT1 ... that a new subspecies of giant sengi was discovered in 2021 in Kenya? Source: "Despite the pelage differences, initial DNA comparisons found it nearly identical to R. chrysopygus. A later DNA comparison supported a designation of a new subspecies, Rhynchocyon chrysopygus mandelai as it diverges in pelage and is allopatric to R. chrysopygus (Agwanda et al. 2021)."
ALT2 ... that a new Golden-rumped sengi subspecies (Rhynchocyon) was discovered in in Kenya? Source: "Despite the pelage differences, initial DNA comparisons found it nearly identical to R. chrysopygus. A later DNA comparison supported a designation of a new subspecies, Rhynchocyon chrysopygus mandelai as it diverges in pelage and is allopatric to R. chrysopygus (Agwanda et al. 2021)."
ALT3 ... that a new subspecies of the giant Golden-rumped sengi was discovered in 2021? Source: "Despite the pelage differences, initial DNA comparisons found it nearly identical to R. chrysopygus. A later DNA comparison supported a designation of a new subspecies, Rhynchocyon chrysopygus mandelai as it diverges in pelage and is allopatric to R. chrysopygus (Agwanda et al. 2021)."
Date, size, expansion, hook, refs, QPQ, copyvio spotcheck, all GTG. Minor disclaimer: the prose script I use does not count tables and bulleted lists, and without them I see only ~2.5-3x expansion. But there is a new large table (with some advanced features) and a new list, so I am AGFing the 5x claim. PS. I added a single citation needed request to one sentence - I ask the nom to comment here on whether it has been addressed. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 10:15, 20 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Reference added! And yes, it was not massively expanded, however I am working on more sections in the conservation section today. Thank you for the comments.
Andrew Z. Colvin •
Talk 22:55, 20 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Not happy with 'recently'; hooks must not be likely to change.--Launchballer 17:41, 4 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Azcolvin429: Another issue with recently is that it's relative to the field but if that's unclear, it could give folks a misleading impression. 2008/7 is recent for the discovery of species, but not recent in other ways. Back in 2007, you could pull your Blackberry out of your ombré jeans and text your friends to meet you at Blockbuster Video so you all could rent a DVD to play on your PS2. Some people could read the hook as meaning that it was discovered earlier this year. I thought some of the reproduction information cited to
Rathbun was interesting, including that they're monogamous but spend little time together and the quick development of the offspring, "mall versions of adults and are able to run swiftly within an hour of birth". Good luck, whichever way you go,
Rjjiii (
talk) 06:24, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
AirshipJungleman29, Fair point, I would be happy to review alternate hooks, as on second thought the current one is also not very interesting. Could of course just change 'recently' to a year and move on, accepting that it won't be very clickable. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 01:45, 12 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I know it is not super interesting, its just a little factoid and I expanded the article significantly so figured it would be useful. I initally avoided the year as it is not super recent, but it was not on Wikipedia until I wrote about it and updated corresponding phylogenies and distributions. I should clarify that the expanded article is just the genus. The new subspecies is Rhynchocyon chrysopygus mandelai and is mentioned in the article as well as given a section titled "Kenya subspecies". Maybe the hook should be more specific? Though I wanted to avoid being too technical. I added a few alts.
Andrew Z. Colvin •
Talk 06:39, 12 May 2024 (UTC)reply
None of the currently proposed hooks (including the new ones) are very interesting. I would suggest moving away from the "newly-discovered" angle as it's clearly not working out. My suggestion would be to try hooks about the subject itself, like something else that's mentioned in the article.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 00:29, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Alt4 ... that giant sengis offspring get little maternal care and no paternal care? Rathbun 2013,
Azcolvin429 will need to confirm that the wording matches the source
Alt5 ... that giant sengis form monogamous couples that only come together to mate? Rathbun 2013,
Azcolvin429 will need to confirm that the wording matches the source
Given the 5x expansion, here are several behavior related hooks--
Kevmin§ 16:57, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
ALTs 4 and 5 are both cited in the article and are short enough, with ALT4 edging it interestingness-wise. Let's roll.--Launchballer 20:22, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
The relevant text from the source (which appears to be Rathbun 2009, not 2013, based on the relevant footnote) is The pair bond is weak, with the animals spending relatively little time in coordinated activities, except when a female is in oestrus, which seems to contradict ALT5 ("relatively little time" isn't none except mating), and No direct paternal investment in neonates has been documented, which doesn't quite back up ALT4: just because it hasn't been documented doesn't mean it doesn't happen, just that scientists haven't seen any.
Launchballer, if you're going to approve hooks, it's your responsibility to first check the sources to make sure they concur with the article as to the hook facts. ALT4 might be made usable by adding "known" or "documented" before "paternal" but the article needs to be revised first to match the source; ALT5 probably can't be saved, though the article should still be corrected to match the source.
BlueMoonset (
talk) 23:21, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
My mistake, I saw "Azcolvin429 will need to confirm that the wording matches the source" and assumed they were offline, because why else would Kevmin not be able to check himself. If it really is in Rathbun 2013, then the source should be switched.--Launchballer 23:36, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
With regard to Alt 4 (and a degree alt 5), we also dont have confirmation that there arent micropockets of cheddar in the earths core, but we arent going to veto a hook about the metallic nature of the core because we havent had a report about it? "just that scientists haven't seen any", presents as a highly anti-science statement, boiling down "what do experts know anyways, they CVOULD be wrong so we have to assume they are wrong."
Additionally I was pinged to provide alternatives, I did not write the article and I did not have to provide any input at all.--
Kevmin§ 01:06, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Overall: I don't think either hooks are that interesting. Can you come up with something else? Perhaps you could mention that they won $500,000, I suppose.
BorgQueen (
talk) 20:15, 18 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
BorgQueen: didn't see this notif for some reason. I personally don't find the financials/monetary aspect of these sorts of things interesting at all. I thought ALT1 was kinda conceptually funny, the fact that the team was still so freshly signed when they won the tournament that DZ hadn't even given them player bios on their website yet. Idk. I'll see what I can do, but will be adding the $500,000 win into the actual article as that info is currently not included.
Soulbust (
talk) 01:44, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Painting of Taiyin Xingjun, the Western Xia (982–1227), in Hermitage Museum.
... that Taiyin Xingjun(pictured) is considered the original Chinese moon goddess, even though
Chang'e is sometimes viewed as an accidental resident and is also regarded as an incarnation of her? Source:
找神!拜對正廟有緣神: 拓展「神脈」,更要抱對「佛腳」!
Hi, who will review my DYK? And how many days do I need to wait for a review?
TheGreatPeng (
talk) 18:45, 26 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Comment. Please be patient. This is a volunteer effort, and the average wait time for a review could be around two to three weeks, perhaps sooner or later depending on who is active. Please be mindful of
WP:DYK200. It may help to present alternate hooks for consideration.
Viriditas (
talk) 20:56, 26 April 2024 (UTC)reply
But it was too long to wait; even my second DYK was reviewed.
TheGreatPeng (
talk) 05:29, 9 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Article is sourced well, no plagiarism, new enough, long enough, but needs another pass over for grammar, spelling, and tone. Article could also use clarification about which aspects of worship of this god apply to China/specific regions of China, and which to Taiwan. Hook should also be simplified. How about: ...that Taiyin Xingjun (pictured) is the original Chinese moon goddess, but is often confused with Chang'e?
@
TheGreatPeng: Hi, please make the changes mentioned above, the article has some issues with tone. On review, it seems like there are several quotes which are not distinguished from the text of the article, these should be incorporated into the text or at least separated into quote blocks. See:
WP:QUOTE
The new hook you suggested sounds good, with slight correction: "...that Taiyin Xingjun (pictured) is the original Chinese moon goddess, while the more famous Chang'e is considered her incarnation? "
@
Luiysia: I've done my best to adjust the grammar and tone, even though I'm not a copyeditor. However, I'm unsure about how to format certain text from books or historical documents as a quote block since it's not dialogue. Could you provide an example quote block, and I'll adjust accordingly?
WP:QUOTE is not helpful. Thanks!
TheGreatPeng (
talk) 10:47, 24 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
PSA,
Prince of Erebor,
Launchballer,
Geni,
Kusma, and
Z1720: reopening this nom page per discussion at
WT:DYK. I personally agree with the sentiment expressed there that including mention of Eilish's sexuality is not suitable for the main page, when she's explicitly said she doesn't accept the concept of outing. Suggest we go with Kusma's alt or something else. Full discussion to be copied below. —
Amakuru (
talk) 20:18, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
My reading of the sources is that Eilish is objecting to actually being outed; if she had a problem with the term, she wouldn't have used it in the Instagram post mentioned in the Background section.--Launchballer 14:30, 23 May 2024 (UTC)reply
From what I read in the source
[1], she said "i like boys and girls leave me alone about it please literally who cares." so I am not sure focussing on her sexuality (instead of on the song) is appropriate for the Main Page. —
Kusma (
talk) 14:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)reply
It's more like "no one has to feel pressured to tell people theyre LGBT" to me. not necessarily a rejection of the concept
PSA 🏕️🪐 (please make some noise...) 08:52, 24 May 2024 (UTC)reply
... that
Lionel Messi has provoked geopolitical tensions across China, the United States, Argentina, Japan and Hong Kong due to his absence from a match?
What a ride that article was. QPQ not needed. Earwig has a high score for copyvio detection, but that's entirely due to Messi's paragraph-long statement in the "Departure and Japan trip" section, which has an inline citation to the flagged source. Referencing is adequate and length/newness criteria fulfilled. Hook is definitely interesting and cited in source, not cited inline as exact phrasing but separately so. Good to go.
Juxlos (
talk) 10:13, 1 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Cypp0847 and
Juxlos: I have tagged the article for copyediting, as there are grammar-related issues throughout the article (tenses, for instance, are very often incorrect). This needs to be resolved before a DYK run.
~~ AirshipJungleman29 (
talk) 01:39, 9 May 2024 (UTC)reply
FYI, I'm working on a copyedit and will try to have it posted later today or tomorrow. –
Reidgreg (
talk) 18:21, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Okay, finished my copyedit. I removed the flag icons per
MOS:FLAG and shortened one of the really long quotations. The infobox image, while taken from a video released under CC, contains elements which are definitely under copyright. I suggest taking a low-resolution version (100k pixels) and moving it to en.wiki with a fair use rationale, and using that. Please ping me (here or elsewhere) if you have any questions regarding my edits. –
Reidgreg (
talk) 05:27, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Overall: A newly promoted GA which received an appropriate review during the GAN. Overall, everything looks good for ALT0, which I think is definitely the strongest option. I'd make a few tweaks to the wording, though, to make it more concise, define "pie" (since it's not that common as a verb), and remove the identity of the thrower (which doesn't add much as not too many readers will know who he is). That leaves us with ALT0a: ...that an environmentalist
threw a pie in the face of the author of The Skeptical Environmentalist? If that works for you, this should be good to go. Sdkbtalk 01:22, 7 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Thank you, @
Sdkb:! Your proposed alt is fine with me :)
Arcahaeoindris (
talk) 09:02, 10 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I'm getting
WP:false balance vibes from ALT0. Views sounds like an opinion, rather than misinformation.
—Femke 🐦 (
talk) 17:02, 16 May 2024 (UTC)reply
ALT0a presumably resolves that, though,
Femke. I'll cross out ALT0 to make it clearer. Sdkbtalk 17:24, 16 May 2024 (UTC)reply
yeah, you're right, should have noticed that, sorry.
—Femke 🐦 (
talk) 17:32, 16 May 2024 (UTC)reply
After no response to my notice on
WT:DYK, I have pulled the hook due to unsourced content.
Z1720 (
talk) 00:43, 25 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Striking ALT1, as it does not contain the nominated article nor any reasonable place to link to it. You need a further 104 characters for this to become eligible.--Launchballer 15:16, 1 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Still needs another 42 characters. You should consider installing
WP:DYKcheck so you can check yourself.--Launchballer 17:05, 1 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Now added some stuff about the 2 types of ambilineal, which I may expand into there own sectrions at some point. Hows this now @
Launchballer: — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Me Da Wikipedian (
talk •
contribs)
How are you remembering to put my username in your comments and not- anyway, length requirement met. Full review needed.--Launchballer 20:33, 1 May 2024 (UTC)reply
It won't be me any time soon, I have a policy of doing my QPQs oldest first. Any other editor is free to review this in the interim.--Launchballer 07:33, 2 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Overall: Nominated in time. 5x expansion. No QPQ need. Current hook as written is not reflected in the text of the article. Another hook please. --
evrik(
talk) 01:45, 16 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Nom is blocked and based on behavior likely a sock (but I haven't figured out who yet). Not to mention multiple issues with submission noted above. We have enough work to do, we don't need to be wasting time on this.
RoySmith(talk) 16:45, 16 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I can however respond, here, and I will. It was in the article when it was submitted. Anyways, here is a new one:Did you know that
lineages often have
religious significance, determining ones religion and there role in that religion
. Also, I do not appreciate unfounded allegations by @
RoySmith: that I am wasting their time and a sock. Thank you. @
Evrik@
Me Da Wikipedian: (
talk) 20:49, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
I am posting the above from this
this post. The user has suggested:
Alt2 ... that lineages often have
religious significance, determining ones religion and their role in that religion?
@
AirshipJungleman29: my apologies if I have caused some confusion or consternation. Once the author posted an alternate hook I found reasonable, I considered the discussion there moot. Also, in fairness, I archived a bunch of discussions at the same time. As for the comments made by @
Rjjiii:, well I didn't consider them negative as much as a suggestion. Honestly, I think the piece was overcited. I did read the passage and thought it matched the citations listed. I have changed one word and I think it all matches up. Hope this addresses your concerns. --
evrik(
talk) 04:44, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
The article is new enough and long enough. It is properly sourced. Earwig detects some close paraphrasing with
this site, so that will need to be resolved before the nomination can be approved. QPQ pending. The hook itself is interesting, but it's a little on the long side and I wonder if it could be simplified to simply:
ALT0a ... that when Daniela Kerck directed Giacomo Puccini's Turandot in 2024, she played the opera unfinished as it was when Puccini died in 1924?
I included Puccini's full name in the hook as he may not be a composer that is known by name among most readers unlike say Mozart or Beethoven. Apart from the close paraphrasing, my main concern with the article right now is the wording of the hook supporting sentences.
She directed Puccini's Turandot in her sets for the 2024 Internationale Maifestspiele, conducted by Yoel Gamzou. She decided to use none of the three completions of Puccini's opera that was unfinished when he died in 1924. She identified the Prince with the composer. When he died in the end, the beginning of his Requiem was performed.
It's a bit confusing to get how the hook is connected to this excerpt, though I think the issue here is more about wording, so a copyedit to make the article or at least the passage flow better might solve the issue. Pinging
4meter4 for help in copyediting the article so that the passage would more clearly support the hook. As an aside, the reference supporting the hook needs to be after "when he died in 1924" rather than after the mention of the Requiem.
I would also like to ask 4meter4 how significant Kerck's directing of this particular performance is or how significant the Internationale Maifestspiele is in the world of opera, but this would not affect the nomination but rather is just a request for additional context.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 09:31, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Didn't you say you review my nominations only when they have lingered for weeks? Kindly read the article about the festival, - it was founded after the model of the Bayreuth Festival in the 19th century.
Anna Netrebko came to sing Turandot during the festival.
[3][4] - Puccini is probably better known than Mozart due to La bohéme. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 13:16, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Narutolovehinata5 The
Internationale Maifestspiele is a respected and long standing opera festival that draws a sizable international crowd (typically around 20,000 people+). It is one of the more important opera festivals in Germany, although it isn't as famous as the
Bayreuth Festival which is on another level and is probably the most famous opera festival in the world. The Internationale Maifestspiele would be known by anyone who follows opera seriously in Europe, and would probably be immediately recognizable to most people living in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, and parts of France (the German speaking parts along the French/German border). I don't think the average person outside of those countries would find it immediately recognizable, but that shouldn't preclude using it in the hook. Turandot is a very famous opera, and even people only nominally familiar with opera would probably either know the name or recognize some of its music. Most people would know
Nessun dorma for example which has played in the soundtracks of many films and tv shows, and has been performed on numerous singing competition programs internationally.
4meter4 (
talk) 17:13, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
The hook fact is not accurate in either version of the hook. The opera was not played "unfinished" but ends with the death of Liu by design. There's a long discussion with the director at
https://www.staatstheater-wiesbaden.de/download/42624/hsw_ph_turandot_rz_digital_240404.pdf about the crafting of a new ending by Kerck. If one reads through the program they make an argument about why the opera should end with Liu's death, and how Kerck utilized notes and sketches by Puccini to rework a new ending that ends in that place. In other words, we shouldn't suggest that the opera just leaves off where Puccini stopped, because that isn't what this production did. Nor should we call it "unfinished" because it was given a re-worked ending designed by Kerck based on notes left by Puccini and incorporating portions of Puccini's 1905 Requiem. I also note that it is called a "new ending" in the Frankfurter Rundschau review that is cited.
I also have an issue with the original hook because it seems to say she was 'directing through scenic design' as opposed to staging the production. She staged it and she designed the sets and that isn't at all clear in the first hook. Lastly, the article currently fails the
WP:BLPSOURCES guideline because the biographical content is sourced to an opera company website that employs Kerck. @
Gerda Arendt this is a repeating problem. Stop using opera company and orchestra website artist bios to write articles. These are not independent sources, and our policies on BLPs require "high quality" (ie independent) sources. That's not negotiable.
Finally, the last two sentences of the article are very confusing to anybody not familiar with Turandot, and is obviously in error to those who are. The character of the prince (ie Calaf) needs to be explained. Further the text asserts the prince dies and is being conflated with Puccini's death, but Calaf doesn't die in the opera, Liu does. That whole bit seems confusing and to be in error. It doesn't really grasp what the sources are saying accurately. There needs to be plot context, and discussion of the autobiographical nature of Puccini's interaction with the characters from events in his life in order to make it understood what Kerck was actually doing with her original ending which places Liu and her death (not the prince who remains very much alive) at the climax of the opera. @
Narutolovehinata5 If it is alright with you I am going to take over this review because of the factual errors in an area I have some knowledge in.
4meter4 (
talk) 16:45, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
4meter4, thank you for clarifying festival and opera. - The hook: it took you several sentences to describe what she did (direct, design the stage, create a new ending with different music than usually ...), - could you kindly offer a wording in 200 chars, or help with it? I think we will have to mention that Puccini left the opera unfinished when he died in 1924 (the year needed because of the centenary), which leaves little room to say more, - I doubt that it's commonly known. How about saying that the performance leaves out the happy ending that he wasn't able to compose? Trying:
ALT2: ... that Daniela Kerck, scenic designer and stage director of Puccini's Turandot for the 2024
Internationale Maifestspiele, omitted the happy ending that the composer had not set to music when he died in 1924?
ALT2a: ... that Daniela Kerck, scenic designer and stage director of Turandot at the 2024
Internationale Maifestspiele, omitted the happy ending that Puccini had not composed when he died in 1924?
Other ideas welcome. - Which "biographical information" do you think is sourced to an opera company? - This is not yet a reply to the last paragraph, - we had an edit conflict, twice. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 20:05, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
After edit conflict: what I saw on stage was that after Liu's death, the Prince/Puccini moves to the grand piano, Turandot follows, kisses him, and he dies (called "Todeskuss" - kiss of death - in one of the reviews), - the new ending. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 20:11, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Gerda Arendt I think the tags I placed are self explanatory as to which sources are promotional non-independent sources. I'll take a look at the plot change leading to Calaf's death by looking through more sources. In reading the one interview with Kerck, she specifically emphasized Liu's death as her focus and pointedly named the Prince as complicit in her death through his silence. Regardless, it would seem killing off the prince at the end rather than having him end happily with Turandot would be a hooky fact. I think the emphasis of the hook should de-emphasize Puccini and focus more on Kerck and her original work. The hook language should not cram too many facts in, but should be a focused sentence on a single fact.
4meter4 (
talk) 21:42, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I made some changes, adding sources, and dropping the details at the end that you found confusing. I added a newspaper ref for the nomination for the Opera Award. Only, it's subscription only, so I left the University ref for the same fact - that people can actually read - also. (I also don't see that what a university reports about an alumna is "promotional.") I need sleep, and tomorrow is a feast day. Patience please. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 21:57, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@ Gerda, I was able to find more detail in this review which confirms the kiss of death
https://magazin.klassik.com/konzerte/reviews.cfm?TASK=review&PID=8178. I would suggest incorporating more detail into Kerck's article highlighting specific changes to the story between her ending and the other traditional endings. A good hook could read something like this: Alt3 ... that Daniela Kerck's new ending to Puccini's Turandot reenvisioned Turandot giving the prince the kiss of death rather than proclaiming her love?
4meter4 (
talk) 22:20, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
4meter4: I'm okay with you taking over the review, but given that Puccini isn't a household name and not everyone may know who he is, I'd suggest that any hook mentioning him give his full name. I'll leave it to another reviewer as to whether or not ALT3 is okay but personally I'm not a fan of it since it assumes knowledge of the opera, which not all readers may have. My preference would be more towards some variation of ALT2's hook fact as it seems less specialist.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 02:59, 9 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Narutolovehinata5 I would consider Puccini a household name and a commonly known figure. He is a seminal composer in the western canon and one of the most performed and recorded composers of all time, on the same level as Mozart, Wagner, Verdi, Bach, etc. Indeed, he gets performed more frequently than Wagner,
placing third on the list of most performed composers, surpassing both Beethoven and Bach. I disagree that a full name is needed, or that Puccini could be considered in any way an obscure figure. His operas are ubiquitously performed globally and have been for over a century. According to opera base, in the year 2024 alone there are 681 different professional productions of his operas being staged around the world, and that includes companies in Asia, North and South America, Australia, Africa, and Europe. That doesn't include the many orchestras and concerts that are programing his music as well in 2024. There are very few composers so widely performed across the world, and over such a long period of time. I would think most of our readers would know who Puccini is, and if they don't, they would be the exception. His arias even get sung and recorded by pop and rock singers on occasion which is rare for an opera composer. For example "
Nessun dorma" from Turandot has been performed by
Adam Lambert,
Queen,
Jennifer Hudson,
Jeff Beck,
Josh Groban,
Manowar, and
Michael Bolton among many other non-opera singers.
4meter4 (
talk) 03:35, 9 May 2024 (UTC)reply
4meter4, thank you for taking the time! I'm off for the day but reading this when just checking the watch list made the day even better. Recommended listening
[5], enjoy! --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 07:33, 9 May 2024 (UTC)reply
You of all people might have known that after returning from a good weekend trip, I first had to deal with the
RD article of the day, and then with sourcing
M. H.. I am not done (or am I, please check?), and before supplying a qpq, I'll have to source Kerck to your and 4meter4's liking, or not. What an opera company writes about its member is thought to be "promotional". Interesting. What I see is a list of roles. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 15:36, 13 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Yes,
Gerda Arendt. All work products/publications by a performing arts organization are intended as a tool of promotion as well as a tool for information. Opera companies/theatres are businesses and they have an invested interest in promoting their company/theatre and its performers in order to sell tickets. There is a commercial aspect to the performing arts, and the materials that an opera company/theatre produces for public consumption are directly connected to its commercial interests. This is why we should avoid using sources produced by theatres/opera companies as much as possible. Artist bios are written by talent management and PR companies. Most professional singers have a paid talent agent who specializes in marketing opera singers, and those agents often write the bios hosted on theatre/opera company websites. Or the opera company/theatre itself will have an in house PR/marketing staff member responsible for writing those materials. There is therefore, a direct COI with these kinds of sources because they are written as a marketing tool for commercial gain. When possible, its best not to use PR materials of this type for ethical reasons.
4meter4 (
talk) 15:53, 13 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I don't know what you normally read, but I see that Oper Frankfurt and Hessisches Staatstheater write their own bios, and their own high-class program books. - German opera houses in general are public institutions, financed mostly by tax money. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 16:04, 13 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Gerda, it's not a completely publicly funded institution. They sell tickets and market their organization. End of story. The fact that they are writing their own content makes it
WP:SELFPUBLISHED in addition to having a financial COI. We shouldn't be using materials like this other than in an external link for ethical reasons.
4meter4 (
talk) 17:05, 13 May 2024 (UTC)reply
The type of sources not accepted by 4meter4 is discussed in the deletion discussion of
Magdalena Hinterdobler. I believe we should not run the two parallel but wait for that to close. I also have Pentecost coming up, going to sing, and with little time to provide additional sources. One thing is sure: I'll mostly turn to Bach's cantatas for the rest of the year. No more biographies of living people for a while. Kerck's story, however, is worth telling. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 10:06, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Let us know when you are ready.
4meter4 (
talk) 01:56, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Today is still Pentecost, singing in church, lunch with friends. I'll try to get to it tomorrow. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 13:02, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Today, I had to work on
Requiem (Verdi) (premiere 22 May 1874), but interrupted for Kerck:
I wrote a bit more about Turandot as an exotic story envisioned by a composer at his grand piano who dies over it. Please check. I still think that the kiss of life is just a small instance within this one piece. A hook should introduce to Kerck in general, I would prefer one that mentions a) that she is both director and scenic designer which is unusual, and b) that the storytelling of Turandot is not just some whimsical idea but is related to Puccini's death in 1924 over this opera. I tried that in ALT2, and miss it in your suggestion. Trying to please:
ALT3: ... that Daniela Kerck, scenic designer and stage director of Puccini's Turandot at the 2024
Internationale Maifestspiele, identified the composer with the Prince, who receives a kiss of death from Turandot when the music he was able to write in 1924 ends?
Wording help welcome, - too long, too complex ...
Sources: I found a ref for the shortlist. However, I found no ref for some items - masterclasses, thesis - from the Staatstheater website. Are such things "promotional"? How,
4meter4? --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 16:05, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
4meter4, I added another interview and several references about performances. There is now no instance where Hessisches Staatstheater is the only reference. Admittedly, the details mentioned above (teachers, masterclasses, thesis) rely on her website, but I see nothing contentious in these bits. What do you think? --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 12:09, 23 May 2024 (UTC)reply
ALT3 cannot be used as it is 252 characters long. I would suggest cutting down all the fat because it is simply too detailed.
4meter4 Do you have a way to shorten it?
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 23:53, 24 May 2024 (UTC)reply
What in my "too complex, too long, wording help welcome" did you not understand? Could you help perhaps? Brutally short:
But 4meter4 liked the kiss of death. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 07:59, 25 May 2024 (UTC)reply
ALT5: ... that when Daniela Kerck directed and designed the scene for Turandot, Puccini's 1924 unfinished opera, for the 2024
International May Festival, she identified the Unknown Prince with the composer?
ALTs 3 to 5 are material to play with. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 09:09, 25 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Comment. Gerda, I don't think the whole identifying the composer with the prince fact is working. It's too esoteric, and requires knowledge of the opera and composer to make it interesting. It's probably best to simplify this for a general audience. Perhaps say ....Alt6 ... that for the 2024
Internationale Maifestspiele, stage director and scenic designer Daniela Kerck crafted a new ending to Puccini's unfinished opera Turandot? This is factually accurate, and doesn't require a working knowledge of the opera to understand it. I struck rejected hooks above. If you like this one Gerda, I'll have to ask someone else to approve it.
4meter4 (
talk) 18:18, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I don't like it but I can live with it. I'd prefer mentioning that it was in 1924 that the opera was left unfinished. I thought that the mysterious "Unknown Prince" would raise curiosity, even from someone not particularly interest in opera. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 19:28, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I think the 1924 date requires too much context to fit in with all the other facts, and given the opera premiered in 1926 it would be controversial to simply slap a parenthetical 1924 after Turandot. Since I wrote Alt6, I will have to request a new reviewer.
4meter4 (
talk) 19:37, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
New reviewer needed.
4meter4 (
talk) 19:38, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
4meter4: I'm okay with ALT6, but the article still has the "better source needed" and "promotional source" tags. Those will need to be resolved before this can be approved.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 02:25, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I don't see that, sorry.
Narutolovehinata5 called you as an expert, I called Michael as an expert of which sources are acceptable. - What makes a reference promotional, its source or its content? - That is the question. I asked you - in a different case - to say what is promotional in a specific source, and still wait. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 15:57, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
GobsPint: - The weight fraud articles has been tagged by @
Lovkal:. This needs to be resolved. --
evrik(
talk) 19:30, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I haven't had much luck finding articles explicitly spelling out scale weight fraud outside the US...though it evidently exits.
GobsPint (
talk) 21:41, 19 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Article all looks good to me: long enough, new enough, citations look good, and no plagiarism found. However, this hook doesn't sound quite grammatically correct to me. How about: ... that putting pre-moistened meat diapers in case-ready meat is a form of weight fraud?Luiysia (
talk) 17:02, 10 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Case-ready is jargon. Can it be replaced by pre-packaged?
—Femke 🐦 (
talk) 08:44, 11 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Theleekycauldron: It's ready to go. There's some concern about the {{Globalize}} tag that got added to
weight fraud...I'm having trouble locating sources for a non-US section on weight fraud...though its evidently occuring.
GobsPint (
talk) 04:00, 23 May 2024 (UTC)reply
... that cats are taken in procession around villages and splashed with water as part of a rain-making ritual at the end of the dry season in Cambodia and Thailand?
... that Claude Hamilton Verity, grandson of
Doncaster mayor Charles Verity, was one of the earlier pioneers of synchronisation of sound with silent films (advertisement pictured)?
ALT1: ... that
navvyCharles Verity, who became a wealthy contractor and mayor of
Doncaster, was grandfather of Claude Hamilton Verity an early inventor of synchronous sound with silent films (advertisement pictured)? Source: As above for being grandfather of the inventor. For the rise of Charles Verity, see
The Doncaster Review, November 1896
I'd like to see a more internationally appealing hook than the current one because the hook to me isn't exactly impressive or eye-catching (it basically says that Soberano played a role, which is her job).
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 09:08, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I guess that's okay too, but do you have any additional suggestions? Article itself seems long enough and new enough at least.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 09:08, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Not from this article, no. This is in itself a hook that has "international appeal" given it's a Hollywood debut for a Filipino actress, which is a rarity.
Pseud 14 (
talk) 15:27, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
The article is new enough, long enough, is free of close paraphrasing, and is adequately sources. ALT1 (the only hook under consideration) is verified in the source and mentioned in the article. A QPQ ahs been done. I'm still not 100% sure if ALT1 works out in terms of interest or if additional hooks are needed, so I'm passing judgement on ALT1 to a third-party editor.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 09:02, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I would argue that there's nothing too unusual about a Filipino actress in Hollywood; the fact that she's not American is something, but foreign actors aren't exactly, well, foreign. (signed, an Angeleno, for what it's worth)
theleekycauldron (
talk • she/her) 02:40, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I'd probably have passed ALT1, but after reading
Liza Soberano and this, I can suggest ALT2: ... that
Liza Soberano(pictured), an actress described by media publications as among the most beautiful Filipino actresses of her generation, played an unattractive exchange student in Just the Way You Are? - but you would need to add that bit from
Liza Soberano.--Launchballer 09:29, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Thanks for the suggestion
Launchballer, I am unsure if adding the latter would work because it takes context out of the main article, instead of the nominated article for DYK, and honestly, I see little value of adding that bit on her roles and awards (as those publications are mostly listicles and generally don't count as awards). Having said that, Alt2 may be another iteration of Alt0 - which is a just another role she played. Thoughts?
Pseud 14 (
talk) 20:57, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I'd have thought the juxtaposition of a beautiful actress playing an unattractive exchange student would be interesting.--Launchballer 08:24, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
List is new, long, well sourced, neutral, and copyvio-free, as well as supported with a licensed image (which I doubt will make it to the Main Page). I concur with Narutolovehinata5 that none of the hooks is interesting; on ALT1, for instance, boldlinked article refers to the subject's acting credits, among others, yet only her so-called Hollywood breakthrough is singled out here, which makes her domestic roles inadequate in a way. This can be an interesting hook for a Lisa Frankenstein DYK, but certainly not for this one. Although QPQ has been given, another compelling hook is needed.
Nineteen Ninety-Four guy (
talk) 07:44, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
If this is your alt proposal, then I don't think it's gonna fly, either; it's not unusual for most (if not all) grown actors to start out at a young age. Are there any more?
Nineteen Ninety-Four guy (
talk) 09:43, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Alt3 seems interesting, but could use some tweaks,
Alt3a: ... that
Liza Soberano's early acting roles include playing the third wheel in romance films? Source:
[7]
If this is OK with you, just add an end-of-sentence citations on it so I can redirect this to another reviewer.
Nineteen Ninety-Four guy (
talk) 21:43, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Works for me thanks. Citation added.
Pseud 14 (
talk) 23:09, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
ALT3a is short enough, sourced, and interesting. Let's roll.--Launchballer 23:11, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I do apologize for the comment given that the nomination has already been approved, but I'm not very confident about ALT3a to be honest. If you're a Filipino (Soberano is a big name over here), ALT3a might be surprising especially for people who may not have followed her career as closely as super fans. However, to me at least, ALT3a is a bit reliant on knowing how big Soberano is, and an international reader might not get that context. Honestly I do think ALT2 was actually a better option. Yes it was a role hook, a kind of hook I have mixed opinions about, but the contrast does seem to catch attention and isn't as reliant on knowing about Philippine entertainment as much.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 02:09, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
The argument doesn't make sense at all. You're looking from the lens of someone who knows Soberano and not from the POV of an unfamiliar reader. If you're a Filipino (Soberano is a big name over here), ALT3a might be surprising especially for people who may not have followed her career - this is exactly what the hook is for–to peak the interest of non-familiar/somewhat familiar readers about the article. This is not to cater to someone who already knows her or to "superfans", which makes your justification completely ironic, since your comment is from the perspective of someone who knows the subject. Having said that, the article is about her "roles and awards" and I don't see the relevance of incorporating her "perceived beauty" in it, which makes Alt2 a no go for me. The hook is supposed to be about her acting career not Soberano in general (or whether she is considered desirable or her appearance in a particular role). It should be fact about something interesting that she had done as an actress and I trust that the non-Filipino reviewers who have weighed in seem to think the latter alternative works.
Pseud 14 (
talk) 12:36, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Source:
USA Today - "From Larry Bird to Paul Pierce to Kevin Garnett to Jayson Tatum − and everyone in between − the one constant over the past 43 years for the team was play-by-play announcer Mike Gorman."
Overall: The article pre-expansion was 1,418 bytes, which means that the expansion needs to exceed 7,090 bytes. As of now, it seems that it is approximately ~6,400 bytes. Can anything else be added to the article, @
Aria1561:?
BeanieFan11 (
talk) 02:39, 11 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
BeanieFan11: Based on what
WP:DYKLEN says, only the prose size is considered when determining DYK eligibility, not article byte size or total character length including the lead. The prose size prior to expansion was 1,028 characters and currently the prose size stands at 5,363 characters based on a manual calculation, which is over five times the pre-expansion size.
Aria1561 (
talk) 02:53, 11 May 2024 (UTC)reply
BeanieFan11 According to the page size tool, the article had 1,421 characters of prose prior to expansion. It is currently at 6,266 characters of prose. The article needs 7,105 characters of prose to be a 5x expansion.
SL93 (
talk) 14:49, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
That's what I thought. @
Aria1561: How are you getting 1,028 characters?
BeanieFan11 (
talk) 15:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
BeanieFan11: I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding something, but is the lead not taken into account when determining prose size? If I take the 1,028 I calculated and add the lead to it, I get 1,418 which is very similar to what the tool is displaying. My belief had been that the article text following the lead was considered prose, but if that's not the case then I will further expand the article if necessary.
Aria1561 (
talk) 17:08, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
The page size automatically includes the lead, and the lead counts as prose. It is not a 5x expansion. There is no need to attempt it manually when a tool does it automatically.
SL93 (
talk) 17:17, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Very well then, I will add more to the article within the coming days.
Aria1561 (
talk) 18:22, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
BeanieFan11: I believe the article should be past the 5× expansion threshold now.
Aria1561 (
talk) 04:54, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
The Lycus valley at the Theodosian walls looking north in 1836
... that on 29 May 1453 the Ottomans penetrated
Constantinople from the Lycus valley (pictured)?
Source: This part of the walls is the most vulnerable...since here the fortifications descend in the valley of the Lycus...it was this section of the wall that was finally breached...on the morning of 29 May 1453. Freely (1991), p. 279
Overall: Article reached Good Article status within 7 days of nomination. QPQ is done. Image licensing is fine. The references look reliable and basic facts can be verified online, though I wish a more typical referencing format was used. I do recommend that the nominator adds some online, English-language references to complement the books and the two Turkish online sources used in the article.
The hook is cited within the article, although it is a little difficult to find - if it is the most important historical fact about this river, then it should be mentioned in the lead and preferably described as a sub-section, rather than mentioned in a single line by the end. For the hook itself, I think that the date isn't so important, and the strategic aspect should be emphasized more. Suggested wording: ... that weak defences around the Lycus valley played a pivotal role in the
Fall of Constantinople?InformationToKnowledge (
talk) 23:28, 10 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Thanks for pinging, I totally forgot this. I will address the concerns during the weekend.
Alex2006 (
talk) 06:09, 24 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
InformationToKnowledge:, and thanks for your review. Unfortunately, I could not find sources in English that describe Lycus geographically and hydrologically in detail. however, I have added a couple of online sources for what concerns history. I have created a subsection on the siege of Constantinople and expanded it. Regarding the hook, I think yours is definitely better:
ALT1... that weak defenses around the Lycus valley (pictured) played a pivotal role in the
Fall of Constantinople?
Question: which of the two images do you think is better? Cheers,
Alex2006 (
talk) 07:02, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Alessandro57: Great! The article is a lot better now. I think more English online sources can be added still, even if they only help to cover its military history - i.e. just today, on the event's anniversary,
this article was published and it refers to the Byzantine Emperor personally fighting in that position, which is a very interesting detail. However, that can be addressed at any time, and I am passing the nomination on this anniversary.
Question: which of the two images do you think is better? - Is the other image ? I certainly prefer that one, as the walls are more immediately visible. The image you included here looks a lot like typical countryside without zooming in closer.
InformationToKnowledge (
talk) 16:45, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith
Interesting:
QPQ: Done.
Overall: New enough, long enough, Earwig notes no notable copyvio. Hook is interesting but on an offline source (Österreich in Geschichte und Literatur, Vol. 40-41) so I am assuming good faith. QPQ is completed. Everything seems to check out!
Ornithoptera (
talk) 05:37, 7 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Soman and
Ornithoptera: This article needs a robust copy edit before it gets anywhere near the main page.--Launchballer 23:23, 25 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Sorry,
Launchballer, but you'd have to be more specific. If you have a problem with another editors tick, you should explain why. You've left drive-by comments on {toomanysections} on a number of DYK nominations in the recent past, is that the issue? --
Soman (
talk) 11:29, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I think merging some of the sections would help. I need to go out, but I'll take another look when I get back.--Launchballer 11:37, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Much of what was winding me up was the fact that many sentences were very short and jumped back and forth, I've merged some of the worst offenders. My "Early life" section header was based purely on the fact that two single-paragraph sections look odd next to two much larger sections, though I suppose this isn't a DYK issue.--Launchballer 09:47, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I'm not sure this is the correct forum, but I disagree on applying {toomanysections} rigidly. There is no problem in itself to have sections with 3-4 sentences if and when the material in that section is sufficiently distinct from another section. Sections are supposed to help with readability, and lumping prose together to create larger sections is no goal in itself. In terms of your copy-editing, you are diverging from the source material, such as,
By mixing the age of joining SPO and being a leader of the left faction, makes it seem like he was a factional leader from the onset
We have no source for Polzl "joining" the municipal council (presumably he was elected, but we don't have a reference for the exact conditions of entry).
changing "upon" to "after" regarding his arrest gaves space to interpretation of the timeframe between return and arrest.
"he and many of its other members" is backed up by what source?
I'm not saying that there shouldn't be improvements in flow of prose, but copy-editing should not tamper with the referencing. In terms of DYKINTERESTING, I think the key element here is '1945'. This was not an ordinary period in the history of the country, and Polzl is the only Communist Party cadre that had been in the government prior to arrival of Soviet troops as well as remaining in the position after the British takeover. --
Soman (
talk) 17:22, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
All I did was reword the text as it appeared, I didn't check it against the references (I don't speak German). Re: "many of its other members", I've cut "many of its", but the article said "Within the Central Committee he was one of those that [...] argued that the party should resign from the Austrian government." - does this not mean that other members argued for it as well?--Launchballer 20:07, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I started to edit the wording and came across some phrasing where the meaning is not very clear like "In 1932, he took part in building the Jungfront movement, and in Graz he worked with Otto Fischer and Willy Scholz to challenge the party leadership control over the Jungfront.". Also,
Soman you may want to double check that I've not inadvertently changed any meaning.
Rjjiii (
talk) 01:43, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
... that Peewee Jarrett went from having no offers to play
college football, a two-year span with no playing time, and being "set on quitting football", to signing into the National Football League?
Source: Eshel, Hanan; Zissu, Boaz (2019). "The Refuge Caves". The Bar Kokhba Revolt: The Archaeological Evidence. Jerusalem: Yad Izhak Ben-Zvi. pp. 62–64. ISBN 978-965-217-429-1
ALT1: ... that over 30 refuge caves, where Jewish families sought shelter from the Roman army during the
Bar Kokhba revolt, were discovered in the
Judaean Desert? Source: Eshel, Hanan; Zissu, Boaz (2019). "The Refuge Caves". The Bar Kokhba Revolt: The Archaeological Evidence. Jerusalem: Yad Izhak Ben-Zvi. pp. 62–64. ISBN 978-965-217-429-1
@
Mariamnei: Please put a link to the DYK template that you reviewed for your QPQ next to the "Reviewed" line above, or link to it below. Thanks.
Z1720 (
talk) 23:14, 23 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Makeandtoss Is the part about dying in an Israeli prison really necessary? Also, hooks are not supposed to change, so I would recommend changing recently to something else. Also, way too much focus on his death. (In the article)
48JCL(
talk) 22:26, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
... that the El-Jai cave in the
Judaean Desert, located in the modern-day
West Bank, was used by Jewish refugees escaping the Roman army circa 135 CE? Source: Eshel, H. (2003). Documents of the First Jewish Revolt from the Judean desert. In The First Jewish Revolt: Archaeology, History, and Ideology. Routledge. p. 158
ALT1: ... that a hoard discovered in the El-Jai cave contained both
Bar Kokhba and
Aelia Capitolina coins, suggesting that the city was founded and had begun minting coins before the
Bar Kokhba revolt erupted? Source: Hofman, Miriam Ben Zeev (2019). "Eusebius and Hadrian's Founding of Aelia Capitolina in Jerusalem". Electrum. 26: 120. doi:10.4467/20800909el.19.007.11210. ISSN 1897-3426.
Source:
Immediate source and
the primary source linked in that article: "The story takes place in Steam Bison, America. There, the power of highly advanced steam engines has ushered in a new world, greatly surpassing even London’s technological development."
If that hook isn't suitable, I'm not sure what else would make for a good hook in the article.
Suntooooth, it/he (
talk/
contribs) 19:51, 5 May 2024 (UTC)reply
ALT1 won't work either, because hooks must not be likely to change, and 'will' will date.--Launchballer 23:18, 5 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Launchballer: The game isn't releasing until 2025 and no main entries are planned to release before it, so I don't see how this is an issue - if this hook is promoted, it'll definitely be before 2025. I've seen other hooks use "will" for something that'll be happening in the future, but not within the time it takes for the DYK process to complete.
Suntooooth, it/he (
talk/
contribs) 23:24, 5 May 2024 (UTC)reply
ALT1 would seem to run afoul of
WP:CRYSTAL, particularly number 5, but if it doesn't, then "will" in the hook needs to be replaced with something less definite, like "is planned to" or "is set to", since there's no guarantee that the game doesn't undergo changes in emphasis or doesn't get canceled altogether. I'm sorry to hear that other hooks have used "will", because they generally shouldn't do so.
BlueMoonset (
talk) 05:23, 15 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
BlueMoonset: I've changed it to "is planned to be"; I don't fully understand how
WP:CRYSTAL applies to a non-article like a DYK hook, but I get where you're coming from regardless.
Suntooooth, it/he (
talk/
contribs) 09:22, 15 May 2024 (UTC)reply
This proposal is simply outrageous and Wikipedia should not stoop so low as to advertise this sort of thing. Regarding the requirement of "well-sourced and neutral", the article is under serious dispute over its neutrality.
Zerotalk 13:04, 13 May 2024 (UTC)reply
1. Not a serious dispute, and it will be resolved long before the reviewers will get to this DYK suggestion weeks from now.
2. Wikipedia "stooped so low" as to publish this in DYK on March 28:"... that Aaron Bushnell said that his action of setting himself on fire was less extreme than "what people have been experiencing in Palestine at the hands of their colonizers". What's the difference?
Vegan416 (
talk) 15:08, 13 May 2024 (UTC)reply
1. On the contrary, the dispute is deep and serious, making the article unstable. It definitely will not be allowed to remain in its present state. 2. While I would not have submitted the Bushnell proposal, the fact that Vegan can't see the difference between a political statement and hatred of an ethnic group is telling.
Zerotalk 08:43, 14 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Not at all. The dispute is only about how to present the background. There is no dispute about the truth of the core facts presented in the article. And unless people would try to destabilize the article nefariously to disrupt the DYK process, it would naturally stabilize long before it reaches the DYK reviewers a few weeks from now. And Zero still hasn't explained what is "outrageous" here. This is a true fact. Why should it be censored?
Vegan416 (
talk) 09:58, 14 May 2024 (UTC)reply
How is this relevant to this DYK suggestion?
Vegan416 (
talk) 15:27, 13 May 2024 (UTC)reply
These hooks are on the wrong side of
WP:DYKGRAT's prohibition against "excessively sensational or gratuitous hooks"; I would suggest proposing a new hook
Vegan416. That simply may not be possible, which is fine.
~~ AirshipJungleman29 (
talk) 10:16, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Please explain why do you think so.
Vegan416 (
talk) 10:41, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Even by the standards of the Israeli-Palestine topic area, this topic is controversial and sensational. I am using my editorial discretion, as someone who has promoted over a thousand hooks, to say that these two cross the line.
~~ AirshipJungleman29 (
talk) 11:21, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
How are these hooks more controversial and sensational than this hook that was published on DYK on March 28:"... that Aaron Bushnell said that his action of setting himself on fire was less extreme than "what people have been experiencing in Palestine at the hands of their colonizers"?
Vegan416 (
talk) 13:21, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Also, how are these hooks more controversial and sensational than this hook that was published on DYK on November 21, 2023: ".. that the novel Minor Detail is based on a true story of a 1949 gang rape and murder of a young Arab Bedouin-Palestinian girl by Israeli soldiers?"
Or that from January 24 this year: ".. that Nakba denial is a form of historical negationism pertaining to the 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight?"
Vegan416 (
talk) 19:01, 18 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Yes, I would say they're more sensational than any of those. See editorial discretion line above.
~~ AirshipJungleman29 (
talk) 01:05, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
AirshipJungleman29: Without bringing up the article content concerns, would rejecting ALT0 and only allowing ALT1 solve the issue? There do seem to be strong objections from multiple editors against ALT0.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 00:34, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Unless a new hook is proposed that can get editorial consensus, there does not seem to be a path forward for this nomination.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 09:14, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I haven't seen a reasoned explanation why this is not OK except for "editorial discretion" which might be just a fancy name for
Wikipedia:I just don't like it. Anyway, putting that aside, I'll come up with new hooks later.
Vegan416 (
talk) 12:22, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
... that one reviewer said that the VR real-time strategy game Homeworld: Vast Reaches is an "unsatisfying lite" version of
the series?
Source: "Homeworld: Vast Reaches is less a virtual reality reinvention of this legendary space RTS than it is an unsatisfying lite version for the Meta Quest 2 and 3."
[9]
ALT1: ... that the
mixed reality mode in the
real-time strategy virtual reality game Homeworld: Vast Reaches allows virtual ships to fly around the player's room? Source: "I was impressed by the unexpected ease of playing the game, but I wasn’t blown away until we switched over to Mixed Reality. In Passthrough Mode on the Quest 3, the blackness of outer space disappears, replaced with the real-life environment you’re physically in. Suddenly, the hotel room where I demoed the game became the setting of a thrilling dogfight. A bomber swooped in front of the TV set while enemy ships soared over the bed. It was quite a sight, but it was also very confusing."
[10]
Comment: Prefer ALT1, but it's tough to make it work with
WP:DYKFICTION – I've attempted to thread the needle here. If I need more ALTs, happy to pull them.
evrik, I don't think either hook is a good April Fools' candidate. I'm not sure I'd even use either as quirky.
BlueMoonset (
talk) 20:05, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Better. Full review needed.--Launchballer 14:05, 7 May 2024 (UTC)reply
evrik, I do not have full access to El Pais. Can you recheck the second paragraph of Background, the one on San Sebastián, to make sure that text is supported? Either way, I suggest adding more details from El Pais. The detail will help the article and provide good hooks. Sparks flying 1.5m from 30 running metal fire bulls; that's a hook.
CMD (
talk) 14:57, 11 May 2024 (UTC)reply
CMD, I put the
text here. The point may be moot as that section just got reorganized when I fixed the links. "
Sparks flying 1.5 meters (4 ft 11 in) from 30 running metal
fire bulls" - I'm thinking about it. --
evrik(
talk) 16:17, 11 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Not really a fan of the hook as unless the reader is familiar with either Geronimo or Velasquez, the hook may not be that appealing. To me it really only seems to appeal either to major fans of either artist. The full review is to follow but in the meantime I'm pinging
Launchballer for any ideas for possible hooks that would also appeal even to non-Filipino audiences.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 00:36, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I'll admit to being surprised at the inclusion of "Pride (In the Name of Love)" and "What the World Needs Now is Love" in the same concert, although the latter has not much more name recognition. I can also suggest the following:
@
Launchballer: ALT2 actually sounds good! However, I do wonder if having Colgate mentioned explicitly could work as an alternative option for the promoter. Will just wait for Pseud 14's thoughts on the new hooks before proceeding with the review. I'm not really a fan of ALT1 as if a reader is unfamiliar with the value of the Peso it makes less sense.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 10:18, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I think the interesting bit of ALT1 is 'some tickets were 20 times more expensive', and I would expect a {{convert}} template to be added to it anyway. I vaguely recall someone moaning at
WT:DYK about currently available commercial products, but I can propose:
Thanks for suggesting alternative hooks
Launchballer, I would go with the Alt3 hook you suggested - I disagree that "appeal" is only limited to fans of both artist. The reason for said hook is to establish that there is a history between both artists before doing the collaboration. You don't have to be familiar with them to be made aware that this fact, interestingly enough, exists. I would probably change "judging" to "hosting" or "presenting". (Alt2 I find is too common. Anyone can say an artist's concert or tour was sponsored by Pepsi)
Pseud 14 (
talk) 17:42, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Launchballer I'm good with your suggestion. As you are someone unfamiliar with them, what you put forward works. Thanks for your help on this.
Pseud 14 (
talk) 18:09, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Article appears to be new enough and long enough. A QPQ has been provided, and the hooks are cited inline.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 13:32, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
^Shaw, R., Y. Luo, T. S. Cheong, S. Abdul Halim, S. Chaturvedi, M. Hashizume, G. E. Insarov, Y. Ishikawa, M. Jafari, A. Kitoh, J. Pulhin, C. Singh, K. Vasant, and Z. Zhang, 2022:
Chapter 10: Asia. In
Climate Change 2022: Impacts, Adaptation and Vulnerability [H.-O. Pörtner, D. C. Roberts, M. Tignor, E. S. Poloczanska, K. Mintenbeck, A. Alegría, M. Craig, S. Langsdorf, S. Löschke, V. Möller, A. Okem, B. Rama (eds.)]. Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, United Kingdom and New York, New York, US, pp. 1457–1579 |doi=10.1017/9781009325844.012.
Source: Cheney, Edna Dow (2010). Louisa May Alcott: Her Life, Letters, and Journals. Carlisle, Massachussetts, USA: Applewood Books. ISBN 978-1-4290-4460-8. “Went for some weeks to the Bellevue, and wrote ‘A Modern Mephistopheles’ for the No Name Series. It has been simmering ever since I read Faust last year. Enjoyed doing it, being tired of providing moral pap for the young.” (Page 296)
Sanderson, Rena (1991). "A Modern Mephistopheles: Louisa May Alcott's Exorcism of Patriarchy". American Transcendental Quarterly. 5 (1): 41–55. ProQuest 1302638905. “After the book’s completion, Alcott commented in her journal that she ‘enjoyed doing it, being tired of providing moral pap for the young.’” (Page 41)
ALT1: ... that
Louisa May Alcott wrote A Modern Mephistopheles as part of an anonymous series in which readers were meant to guess the author? Source: Cheney, Edna Dow (2010). Louisa May Alcott: Her Life, Letters, and Journals. Carlisle, Massachussetts, USA: Applewood Books. ISBN 978-1-4290-4460-8. “‘A Modern Mephistopheles’ was written among the earlier volumes of the No Name Series, when the chief idea of the authors was to puzzle their readers by disguising their style as much as possible, that they might enjoy the guessing and criticism as each novel appeared. This book was very successful in preserving its incognito; and many persons still insist that it could not have been written by the author of ‘Little Women.’” (Cheney 379, quoting Louisa May Alcott)
... that footballer Han Bong-zin was alleged to be better than
Pelé?
Source:
Sunday Mirror ("The outstanding North Korean footballer is ... Han Bong Jin [a variation of Han Bong-zin]. Pyongyang (The Capital) Radio describes the winger modestly: 'A footballer who overshadows the world-renowned Brazilian player [Pelé]'") /
Grimsby Evening Telegraph ("Han Bong Zin is the man described by Pyongyang Radio as 'better than Pele'")
ALT1: ... that footballer Han Bong-zin was alleged to "overshadow"
Pelé? Source: same
ALT2: ... that the North Korean government claimed footballer Han Bong-zin was better than
Pelé? Source: same
ALT3: ... that the North Korean state-run media claimed footballer Han Bong-zin was better than
Pelé? Source: same
Comment: Regarding ALT2/ALT3: the sources say that it was "Pyongyang Radio". That sounds like a government/state-run program, especially since, if I remember right, the only media in North Korea is state-owned. Let me know about your thoughts on whether it is correct to describe it as the NK government/state making the claims.
Converted from a redirect by
BeanieFan11 (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 183 past nominations.
I highly doubt his notability based off a previous AfD discussion, but since the article expanded a lot, I think it is worth a shot. Unfortunately the source you gave is unreliable as it is a tabloid. And not that interested in "X is going to take over Y" kinds of facts. Otherwise, DYK would be filled with statements like "Did you know that Disney+ is going to take over Netflix as the top streaming service"?
Brachy08(Talk) 04:44, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Brachy0008: The prior AFD was very poor as none of the editors looked at Newspapers.com or discussed the fact that he's one of seven players whose life story is chronicled in the film The Game of Their Lives (SIGCOV) or that failing all else, this clearly passes
WP:NBASIC (but features like
Han Bong Jin-he dribbles like Garrincha, shoots like Charlton are clearly SIGCOV for GNG). As for the sources itself, being a tabloid alone is not enough to disqualify a source as far as I'm aware. Neither does the Grimsby Evening Telegraph even appear to be a tabloid(?). Regarding the hook, I still think it interesting as an extremely obscure player being allegedly better than possibly the greatest ever (this isn't "X is going to overtake"); that its a nation's government making the claim only adds more interest (and North Korea another added twist). Should I request another reviewer to analyze?
BeanieFan11 (
talk) 13:04, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
You can if you like. However, even if the player is very obscure, and yeah he is, still doesn’t really spark any interest.
Brachy08(Talk) 13:09, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Brachy0008: Thought of another one, in case the others don't work – what about:
Alt4 ... that footballer Han Bong-zin trained in the military every day for four years in preparation for the FIFA World Cup?
BeanieFan11 (
talk) 14:10, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
ALT4 can pass. Seems a lot more interesting than the rest. Also, source?
Brachy08(Talk) 00:04, 18 May 2024 (UTC)reply
My unsolicited comment. I think the article meets the DYK criteria, and the Alt 3, or something like that is the most interesting. --
evrik(
talk) 15:44, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Brachy0008: See
Liverpool Daily Post: For the last four years of his football career Han Bong Jin — like the rest of his colleagues -- has been preparing for the 1966 World Cup. When the North Koreans reorganised their football organisation he was one of those taken from his club and added to a squad of 40 players to be employed by the Army ... who trained for football twice a day.BeanieFan11 (
talk) 00:08, 18 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
BeanieFan11: searching it up. tabloids are usually unreliable bc they put stuff in a sensationalist light.
Brachy08(Talk) 00:18, 18 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Brachy0008: I meant, how did you determine that the Liverpool Daily Post is an unreliable tabloid?
BeanieFan11 (
talk) 00:19, 18 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Without speaking to the specific reliability and usage of Liverpool Daily Post in this instance, BeanieFan11 is correct. "Tabloid" has two different meanings, of which the infobox usage is very different than the secondary use by Brachy0008, which is shorthand for
tabloid journalism, which in turn used to refer to specific tabloids with red mastheads, known as red tops. Our article on tabloid journalism makes this distinction a bit more clear: "Not all newspapers associated with tabloid journalism are tabloid size, and not all tabloid-size newspapers engage in tabloid journalism."
Viriditas (
talk) 00:45, 18 May 2024 (UTC)reply
ALT1: ... that Mary Ann Wells(pictured), a dance teacher who believed in cultivating her students' passion for dance, influenced the style of the
Joffrey Ballet, which dedicated a season to her memory after her death? Source: Doris 2000
ALT2: ... that Mary Ann Wells(pictured), despite her association with the
"I AM" movement, focused on nurturing her students' individual talents and passions, rather than enforcing rigid standards? Source: Doris 2000
Source: Lihl, Franz; Ettmayer, Peter; Kutzelnigg, Alfred (1962). "Beitrag zum System Mangan-Stickstoff" [Report on the manganese-nitrogen system]. Zeitschrift für Metallkunde (in German). 53 (11).
DeGruyter: 715.
doi:
10.1515/ijmr-1962-531104; also comparison between Prelinger, Otto (10 May 1894).
"Über Stickstoffverbindungen des Mangans" [On the nitrogen compounds of manganese] (PDF). Monatshefte für Chemie und verwandte Teile anderer Wissenschaften (in German): 391–401 and Mekata Mamoru; Haruna Junsuke; Takaki Hideo (July 1968) [29 Jan 1968]. "Neutron diffraction study of antiferromagnetic Mn2N". Journal of the Physical Society of Japan. 23 (1): 234–238.
doi:
10.1143/JPSJ.25.234.
ALT1: ... that no binary manganese nitride salts are known with manganese oxidized past +3, but the stablest nitridomanganate ion is a manganese(V) derivative? Source: Niewa, R. (2002) [21 Aug 2001]. "Nitridocompounds of manganese". Z. Kristallogr. 217. Munich: Oldenbourg Wissenschaftsverlag: 8–23.
doi:
10.1524/zkri.217.1.8.20801.
ALT2: ... that many manganese nitride compounds are known, but only one is a
ferromagnet? Source: Gokcen, N. A. (1990). "The Mn-N (manganese-nitrogen) system". Bulletin of Alloy Phase Diagrams. 11 (1): 33–42.
doi:
10.1007/bf02841582.
GA status confirmed as recent (May 11, 2024). Size, hook, etc. all GTG, although I am not sold on the hook being particularly interesting (did you know that something you never heard about is related to something else you never heard about...). I'd be happy to review a more interesting hook if any are proposed - ping
User:Pseud 14. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 09:40, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Piotrus: Thanks for the review. Fixed some typo as the ping didn't go through. See alternatives:
Created by
Vice regent (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 10 past nominations.
VR(Please
ping on reply) 03:55, 18 May 2024 (UTC).reply
The notability of the article is questionable. If the proposal is not implemented and is replaced by another proposal (which seems to be the case at the moment) do you think anyone will be remotely interested in this article a year from now?
Vegan416 (
talk) 14:04, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
ALT0a: ... that Grace A. Johnson initially held the traditional view that women belonged at home, but her perspective shifted after attending a
pro-suffrage meeting in
Cambridge, England in 1907? Source: Same as above
ALT0b: ... that Grace A. Johnson initially held the traditional view that women belonged at home, but her perspective shifted after attending a
pro-suffrage meeting in England in 1907? Source: same as above
ALT1: ... that Grace A. Johnson initially opposed American entry into
World War I, but eventually supported the war effort after the United States declared war in 1917? Source: [1]
ALT1a: ... that after initially opposing the United States' entry into
World War I, Grace A. Johnson eventually came to support the war effort when the US declared the war in 1917? Source: same as above
It's not immediately obvious what you're talking about, and you should make it clear where this "Davidson County" place is for people who won't realize it's in North Carolina, USA. So ...
I also wonder if you were able to find any explanation for this in your research. I think it's been noted elsewhere as the only significant place in the US with LHT. And maybe we should put that in the intro.
Daniel Case (
talk) 05:17, 14 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Hmmm... I suppose that works. I'm just a little unsure about what hook exactly to choose. Yeah, I'll probably place it in the intro.
NoobThreePointOh (
talk) 09:12, 14 May 2024 (UTC)reply
ALT1: ... that the Vinland Saga anime series took liberties from the manga to properly show Thorfinn's transformation into a Viking as new scenes were added? Source: [2]
ALT2: ... that for the second season of Vinland Saga there was a proper attempt to humanize the slave Thorfinn in contrast to the benevolent owner Ketil who becomes more violent the more he appears? Source: [3]
Reviewed:
Created by
Tintor2 (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 18 past nominations.
I found multiple problems with the article, and fixed some prose, neutrality issues and a copyvio (long quote violating fair use). At this point I've edited the article too much to review it. I just want to caution the DYK reviewer to not rely on the
quick-pass at GAN. –
Reidgreg (
talk) 14:00, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Reidgreg: Thanks for the help and advice. I'll try doing the same with other articles.
Tintor2 (
talk) 18:34, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Source: Ion Căpățână, "Temoignage. Panaït Istrati ou l'homme qui n'a adhéré à rien", in Cahiers Panaït Istrati, Issue 4, December 1976, p. 24. You can read a print
here.
ALT1: ... that Alexandru Talex(pictured), who was novelist
Panait Istrati's confidant and posthumous promoter, produced "superficial, negligent, or downright aberrant" footnotes to Istrati's letters? Source: Mircea Iorgulescu, "Vieți paralele. Recunoașterea", in Vatra, Vol. XXX, Issue 391, October 2003, p. 25 -- includes both the quote and detail on Istrati's relationship with Talex (the latter is detailed in a million other sources as well).
Comment: I'm hoping this gets accepted, even though I was myself superficial, negligent, or downright aberrant in not making sure to submit it within the required interval (and just some hours over it).
Created by
Dahn (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 109 past nominations.
Interesting substantial life and work, on plenty of good-looking sources, foreign and offline sources accepted AGF, no copyvio obvious. I lean towards the original hook (as more positive about the subject), but am afraid that the organisation will not be known to many readers, and while I thing "paramilitary" is meant to explain what it is, it wasn't clear for me just from reading the hook. Could you say that differently? The image is licensed, and shows the period well. I don't mind a slightly late nom, especially of such a substantial addition to our knowledge. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 10:55, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Fair point, Gerda, and thank you for giving this article such a thorough second-look. In light of the above, how about:
Source: Kirwan, Guy M. (2021-08-18). Billerman, Shawn M.; Keeney, Brooke K.; Rodewald, Paul G.; Schulenberg, Thomas S. (eds.). "Satin Berrypecker (Melanocharis citreola)". Birds of the World. Cornell Lab of Ornithology. doi:10.2173/bow.satber1.01.
ALT1: ... that although specimens of the satin berrypecker(male pictured) were first collected in 2014, the species may have been observed as early as 1983? Source: Kirwan, Guy M. (2021-08-18). Billerman, Shawn M.; Keeney, Brooke K.; Rodewald, Paul G.; Schulenberg, Thomas S. (eds.). "Satin Berrypecker (Melanocharis citreola)". Birds of the World. Cornell Lab of Ornithology. doi:10.2173/bow.satber1.01.
ALT2: ... that the satin berrypecker(male pictured) is only the second species of bird to be described from New Guinea in the last 80 years? Source: Kirwan, Guy M. (2021-08-18). Billerman, Shawn M.; Keeney, Brooke K.; Rodewald, Paul G.; Schulenberg, Thomas S. (eds.). "Satin Berrypecker (Melanocharis citreola)". Birds of the World. Cornell Lab of Ornithology. doi:10.2173/bow.satber1.01.
Starting Review--
Kevmin§ 17:05, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Apologies for the delay in commenting here. Article is new enough and long enough. The sources are neutral and policy compliant for WP:TOL/WP:Brids articles. The article is also neutral and well written with no indications of any Copyvio/close paraphrasing issues identified. My first question is regarding the article and sources use of "endemic", am I correct in interpreting the usage to mean its assumed by the authors that the species is "restricted" in range to just the Mountains of the birds neck and not present beyond that?--
Kevmin§ 19:28, 24 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Thats what I was thinking would be the case. The article needs to have more explanation of what it means then, as read now its easy to come to the conclusion that the source states Melanocharis citreola to be the only bird found on the neck it total, rather then Melanocharis citreola being the first known bird with a range restricted to the neck.--
Kevmin§ 18:42, 25 May 2024 (UTC).reply
I don't see how anyone would come to that conclusion; the article clearly states that it's the only bird endemic to the Bird's Neck and anyone who doesn't know what endemism is can just go to the article on endemism. Also, some part of New Guinea having exactly one species of bird is such a patetly absurd conclusion I don't see why anyone would consider it.
AryKun (
talk) 13:24, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
While you and I may feel its absurd, Most people do not have the underlying background in biology to make the connections that you have. I can absolutely say that someone without understanding of endemism can and will likely make that mistake.--
Kevmin§ 16:26, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Comment only (not a review): cumbersome hook, the part "filled various roles" is pointless and superfluous to the more-than-notable statement preceding it. Just simplify the hook:
The article is long enough, new enough, and neutral. The only issues that I see are that "The film grossed over ¥10 billion, making it the second highest-grossing Japanese film of 2024 so far." needs a citation, the first paragraph needs to be cited, and that IMDb is not considered to be a reliable source for the cast.
SL93 (
talk) 06:49, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
In 2024, only two films grossed over ¥10 billion in Japan. To my surprise the best source I can find is
this.
NinetyNineDragon (
talk) 15:15, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
In addition, that is a promotional hook. It tells people "go and watch this film or else you miss out on something". Schwede66 08:31, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I believe simply the hook stating the film's commercial success does not mean it is promotional.
NinetyNineDragon (
talk) 15:15, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
The article is long enough, new enough, and neutral with reliable sources. There are no copyright violations. There are a few issues. The part with "now-famous memo" has an external link, and external links should not be in the article's body. The last part of the Cancellation section needs to be referenced. As for the hook, the article actually says, "it would have been the premier supercomputer of the era". Conway likely was referring to the world, but the quoted words do no say that.
SL93 (
talk) 23:58, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
SL93 (
talk) 23:56, 25 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Spectators follow the 77th Sydney to Hobart Yacht Race
... that there is a seasonal festival in Tasmania that has received yachties from all around the world for the New Year's celebrations for more than 30 years?
Source: Hall, C. Michael (2008-09-10). Food and Wine Festivals and Events Around the World (1 ed.). Routledge. pp. 113–130. doi:10.4324/9780080887951. ISBN 978-0-08-088795-1.
Reviewed:
Created by
Lautreca11 (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
Overall: @
Lautreca11: I copy-edited the article. As a tip, refer to
WP:SEAOFBLUE, we don't normally link common words or countries. A newly expanded article that is long enough. The article uses sources sources I cannot access, so I am going to assume good faith. The ones available are okay and mention what it is sourced. The picture is clear and free. No QPQ required; this is the first nomination. I am not approving it due to three queries. 1st: sourcing; I added a citation needed tag, that's the only issue. 2nd: neutrality, several sentences are written as promotion sentences written in a
WP:Wikivoice tone: For example: "By having a strong main theme and a high profile, the festival is popular and relevant to locals who support this event with their community energy" or "The Taste of Summer highlights the region local produce". It is not the same as saying this: "According to The Writer / The Source, [text]", "The Writer / The Source considers that [text]". I recommend you to re-read the article as if you were the reader rather than the writer and identify these sentences and quotes and attribute them to the source." 3rd: the hook. It is not directly mentioned in the article, even though it is implied, it is part of the
rules: "The facts of the hook need to appear in the article with a citation no later than at the end of the sentences in which they appear."
(CC)Tbhotch™ 19:45, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Dear Tbhotch, thanks for your message. My final submition was on the 24th so I am not sure if I can do anything else while I receive my mark. Anyway, do I have to submit a new DYK or is it possible to edit the initial one?
... that Baubau city filed two different budgets at the same time, resulting it to lose their chance at becoming capital of
Southeast Sulawesi? Source: "Beberapa sebab terpilihnya Kota Kendari sebagai Ibukota Provinsi Sulawesi Tenggara di antaranyakalah jumlah suara pada saat pemilihan untuk penentuan ibukota. Selain itu,terjadi malbirokrasi di mana ada dinas di Kota Baubau yang mengajukan anggaran dua versi dan yang mengajukan dua orang, sehingga terjadi dualisme dalam satu dinas. Akibatnya,kekacauan dalam sistem birokrasi dan tata pemerintahan sangat mungkin terjadi jika Kota Baubau menjadi ibukota provinsi. Oleh karena itu, Mendagri dan Otonomi Daerah dalam keputusannya mengesahkan Kota Kendari sebagai Ibukota Provinsi Sulawesi Tenggara." Rabani, L. O., Purwanto, B., & Margana, S. (2020). Politik dan Ekonomi di Dua Kota: Baubau dan Kendari pada tahun 1950an–1960an. MOZAIK HUMANIORA, 20(1), 39–56.
https://doi.org/10.20473/mozaik.v20i1.15746
ALT1: ... that Baubau city has a fortress made out of coral reefs and limestones? Source: "Benteng Wolio dibangun dengan bahan baku berupa batu karang, pasir, dan kapur. Dalam sistem pengetahuan setempat, bahan perekat material benteng menggunakan putih telur ayam."
https://books.google.co.id/books?id=HRHszgEACAAJ&newbks=0&hl=id&redir_esc=y (Page 49)
Not a review, but special occasion requests for more than six weeks require consensus at
WT:DYK. I'd also expect a more merciless prepbuilder to truncate ALT0 at 'time'.--Launchballer 18:33, 16 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Nyanardsan: Please complete a QPQ, and link it above. Thanks,
Z1720 (
talk) 02:11, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
QPQ added. I also would like to highlight my request once again. I am fine if it must go through consensus at WT:DYK and any modification/ALTs are also fine as long as it mentions the city's name.
Nyanardsan (
talk) 03:26, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
... that the South by South Lawn festival, which took place October 3, 2016, was modelled after and "organized together with" the
South by Southwest festival?
Source: "It was the first – and you have to presume the last – South By South Lawn. Modeled upon and organized together with the original Austin, Texas, interactive festival South By Southwest, it brought a riot of color to the usually sedate seat of the US presidency."
The Guardian
ALT1: ... that the South by South Lawn festival sign was programmed by
Adam Savage and a team from Baltimore to illuminate every time someone made a social media post with the
hashtag #sxsl? Source: "MythBusters’ Adam Savage and a team of makers from Baltimore made the giant letters “SXSL” that lit up every time someone posted to social media using the hasthag #sxsl. Artist Nathan Sawaya brought his Park People, sculptures of people made entirely of Legos."
Smithsonian Magazine
ALT3: ... that the 2016 festival South by South Lawn included a panel discussion on climate change led by
President Obama and featuring actor
Leonardo DiCaprio and Canadian climate scientist
Katharine Hayhoe? Source: "The main event was a conversation, led by President Obama, on climate change with Leonardo DiCaprio and climate scientist Katharine Hayhoe. When talking about leaders taking on climate change, DiCaprio said, “I'm so very honored and pleased to be joined onstage with one of those leaders—a President who has done more to create solutions for the climate change crisis than any other in history—President Barack Obama.” Immediately following the discussion was the domestic premiere of DiCaprio’s new climate documentary, Before the Flood."
Smithsonian Magazine
A new hook is needed here as the hook may not be interesting or understandable to a broad audience, particularly if the reader is unfamiliar with Shetty.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 13:54, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
19Arham: Can you suggest some additional hooks below?
Z1720 (
talk) 02:10, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
that Rashmika Mandanna starred in the third highest-grossing Indian film of 2023 opposite Bollywood royalty,
Ranbir Kapoor?
That doesn't seem to be much of an improvement, not to mention referring to Kapoor as "Bollywood royalty" could fall afoul of
WP:WTA.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 02:20, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
A shadow puppet depicting Xiaotian Quan and his lord
Erlang Shen.
... that Xiaotian Quan(pictured), the loyal canine companion of the deity
Erlang Shen, is worshipped as the protector of pets in Taiwan? Source: Yifang, Lian (8 November 2019).
"寵物開刀別擔心!到廟裡找哮天犬求平安". Now News (in Chinese).
ALT1: ... that the
Tibetan Mastiff breed is said to be descended from the celestial dog Xiaotian Quan(pictured)? Source:
"哮天犬食日天狗 二郎神神獸 - 大公報". Hong Kong Ta Kung Wen Wei Media Group (in Chinese). 29 September 2009.
Article is new enough, more than long enough, and very well sourced. Hook is interesting and well-sourced, with a minor problem: while the source is Taiwanese, the article does not actually state that the worship actually takes place in Taiwan. Maybe just drop "in Taiwan", especially since the article mentions other countries like Malaysia as well? ALT1 is a bit dull, ALT2 is otherwise OK but "is said to have" is a bit weak. The image would otherwise be good, but it's a bit muddy/unclear and the dog is barely visible. (Not a blocker though, the image is optional anyway).
ALT0a: ... that Anna Russell Cole(pictured), a devout
Methodist, was key in supporting
Vanderbilt University's independence from the church's hierarchy, donating to its endowment campaign? Source: Same as above.
ALT1: ... In 1926, Anna Russell Cole(pictured), a significant benefactor of
Vanderbilt University, donated $10,000 to endow the office of dean of women? Source: Same as above.
... that classrooms had to be completely dismantled Wednesdays and Fridays from one of the two buildings East Wake Academy used when opening? Source "And with church activities going on every Wednesday night and on weekends, we have to take down the classrooms [...] Each Wednesday and Friday afternoon"
ALT1: ... that the two main school buildings of East Wake Academy were located four miles apart in separate towns when opening? Source "The year-round school has had to squeeze its 462 students into two temporary sites – four miles apart. Half the school shares a building [...] in Knightdale, while the other half is in a church near Wendell."
ALT1: ... that the documentary film I Am Human has been the conversation starter for
neuroscience panel discussions at universities like
Harvard? Source:
ALT2: ... that the documentary film I Am Human "chronicles how neurotechnology could restore sight, retrain the body, and treat diseases—then make us all more than human"? Source: See the subtitle of
this WIRED article
ALT3: ... that the documentary film I Am Human has been praised for its "fundamentally optimistic" nature with relation to "neuroscience and brain medicine"? Source: "We’re in a dark moment for the tech industry: a time when some new technologies have been adopted recklessly and backfired terribly, and others have developed far more slowly than their creators hoped. Against the backdrop of this pessimism, a film like I Am Human — a fundamentally optimistic documentary about neuroscience and brain medicine — feels surprisingly refreshing."
The Verge
ALT4: ... that the documentary film I Am Human asks the existential question "what makes us human"? Source: "By the end, though, the film's central question is more of an existential one: What makes us human?"
WIRED
... that farmed birds often get marks called hock burns from the ammonia of other birds' waste?
Source: "Millions of supermarket chickens show skin burns from living in their own waste, a BBC investigation has found. 'Hock burn' is caused by ammonia from excrement"
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-68406398
ALT1: ... that farmed birds often get lesions called hock burns after living in the manure of other birds? Source:
(1)
Reviewed:
Comment: Open to other ideas of hooks here. Before expansion, the page size plugin showed a prose size of "617 B (106 words)", but now shows "3384 B (573 words)", so is more than 5x larger in bytes and in words
5x expanded by
TB5ivVaO1y55FkAogw1X (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
Also I now realize that I'm not 100% sure if I selected the correct date when submitting this. I started working to expand the article on the 18th, but didn't finish until around today. Let me know if I filled this out incorrectly
TB5ivVaO1y55FkAogw1X (
talk) 02:27, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
The article notes: "Thomas, who has appeared on NBC’s “Last Comic Standing” and has made several other national appearances, started comedy after six years as a car salesman selling Toyotas."
The article notes: "BEST LOCAL COMEDIAN BOA AWARD WINNER. Year » 2006. Section » Print Features » Special Issue » Best of Atlanta » 2006 » Poets, Artists, & Madmen » Critics Pick Drew Thomas"
ALT1: ... that some observers credit the ZX Spectrum(pictured) for boosting the British
IT industry amid the early 1980s recession? Source: Williams, Chris (23 April 2007).
"Sinclair ZX Spectrum: 25 today". The Register.
London: Situation Publishing.
Archived from the original on 18 July 2018. Retrieved 14 September 2008.
Wonderful to see that this machine (with a great keyboard... at least it's no Sinclair 1000 eh?) be promoted to good article status. Earwig's is clean, was promoted to GA a few days ago. For the first hook, neither of the given sources say how long the computer was a bestseller for -- the BBC source only says The ZX Spectrum may have been Britain's best-selling computer. ―Panamitsu(talk) 09:08, 23 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I did my own digging into the claim and found out that the
Amstrad PCW actually outsold the ZX Spectrum some time in the 1990s (8 million units of the PCW across all models by at latest 1998 vs. 5 million units of the Spectrum across all units by 1992). In light of that, here's an alternative hook. Pinging @
Panamitsu and
Jaguar:DigitalIceAge (
talk) 23:55, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
DigitalIceAge: I'm a bit puzzled with the given sources. The Guardian one doesn't appear to mention the ZX Spectrum at all; the Micro Mart appears to say with Raspberry Pi sales reporting, people forgot that the Amstrad PCW had outsold the ZX Spectrum; the Independent source talks the Pi rather than the ZX Spectrum. Am I completely overlooking something? ―Panamitsu(talk) 06:51, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Panamitsu: The Guardian source is there to establish that the PCW had surpassed the Spectrum in sales by the time of the PCW's discontinuation in 1998. The Micro Mart is there to establish explicitly that the PCW outsold the Spectrum. The Independent source is... pretty much redundant, so I've removed it. I think this shouldn't fall afoul of
WP:SYNTH, as
WP:CALC allows us to do routine calculations like numerical comparisons. If this is too SYNTH-y, though, I'm not opposed to other hooks.
DigitalIceAge (
talk) 08:14, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
DigitalIceAge: Honestly this is too SYNTH-y for my liking. My interpretation of
WP:CALC is more of something like "The 2016 Kaikōura earthquake occurred 6 years after the 2010 Canterbury earthquake." Anyway, I think it could have something to the effect of "is one of the best selling British computers", as it is brought up in the Raspberry Pi source, or we can have another hook. ―Panamitsu(talk) 11:32, 30 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Tyla (left) and
Gunna (right) filming the music video for "Jump" in South Africa
... that a fusion of international talent "Jump" by South African singer Tyla, American rapper Gunna and Jamaican singer as well as rapper Skillibeng is a collaborative song which blends Tyla's melodious vocals, Gunna's rap prowess, and Skillibeng's dancehall flair, marking a vibrant cross-genre collaboration that's making waves globally? Source: ' ' 'Source:' ' '
For 6 consecutive weeks, the song has maintained the number one position on the UK's biggest premier chart for afrobeats songs, which ranks them according to sales and streams over a 7 day period:
[19]
American rapper Gunna and South African singer Tyla traveled to Johannesburg, South Africa, Tyla's hometown, to film the official music video:
[20]
Reviewed:
Comment: "Jump" by Tyla, Gunna and Skillibeng achieved remarkable success, reaching the number 1 spot on The UK’s biggest Afrobeats songs chart for six consecutive weeks. The collaboration between American rapper Gunna , Jamaican musician Skillibeng and South African singer Tyla, filmed in Johannesburg, South Africa, showcases the global appeal and cross-cultural influence of contemporary music. The song's popularity underscores the growing recognition and appreciation of African music on an international scale. "Jump" exemplifies the fusion of diverse musical styles and talents, resulting in a chart-topping hit with widespread appeal. "Jump" has earned millions of streams and downloads worldwide since its release.
Created by
Qaqaamba (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
Hooks should contain a bolded link to the article and be
under 200 characters long, so I've struck it. Please propose something much shorter.--Launchballer 12:48, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
ALT1: ... that "Jump" is a cross-genre collaboration blending South African singer
Tyla's vocals, American rapper
Gunna's
trap, and Jamaican musician
Skillibeng's
dancehall? "Jump" stands out as the sole
hip hop or trap and dancehall infused song on Tyla's eponymous debut studio album,
Tyla.
Qaqaamba (
talk) 13:23, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
162 characters after adding an
oxford comma, which I have added to the article title. Full review needed.--Launchballer 14:59, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Article is well sourced and neutral. It's new enough and long enough. QPQ looks to be underway at
Template:Did you know nominations/American Colossus: Big Bill Tilden and the Creation of Modern Tennis. I agree that the hooks could be more interesting, and I think it's because it glosses over why this person is notable. (Both in the hook and in the article body.) Following the links the article about the man himself, there's probably a way to describe at least one aspect of what earned him coverage in reliable sources. Either his fiction, his personal life, or both.
Shooterwalker (
talk) 15:57, 23 May 2024 (UTC)reply
WP has strong precedent for discussing any fictional events in present tense, i.e. "becomes" instead of "became"
Orchastrattor (
talk) 19:19, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
... that
Rubella vaccine developer Paul Parkman reflected at the end of his career that “It will be for others to take on the difficult task of maintaining the protections that we struggled to achieve"?
Source: "Dr. Paul D. Parkman, whose research was instrumental in identifying the virus that causes rubella and developing a vaccine that has prevented an epidemic of the disease in the United States for more than 50 years, died on May 7 at his home in Auburn, N.Y., about 60 miles east of Rochester in the Finger Lakes region. He was 91.
“As I look back on my career, I have come to think that perhaps I was involved in the easy part,” he added. “It will be for others to take on the difficult task of maintaining the protections that we struggled to achieve. We must prevent the spread of this vaccine nihilism, for if it were to prevail, our successes could be lost.”"
Source: "Akinada Tobishima Kaido: The collective term for the seven bridges connecting Kure City and the islands of the Aki Sea in Hiroshima Prefecture. ""Tobishima"" is derived from ""tobi-ishi"", meaning ""stepping stones,"" due to the islands' appearance resembling the stepping stones of a garden.[1]
Comment: I personally prefer ALT0. After carefully re-reading the source (and watching the video linked in the article) I am proposing the following ALT in place of ALT0:
ALT0a: ... that five Hamad City apartment buildings were destroyed in the space of just two minutes?
Havradimleaf a message 12:56, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Created by
Havradim (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
... that Magic: The Gathering player Pascal Maynard(pictured), criticized for drafting a card to sell rather than play, founded a Magic card store?
Source:
https://dotesports.com/general/news/pascal-maynard-tarmogoyf-magic-the-gathering-2014 - " Pascal Maynard ... had finally made Top 8, the final table, at Magic’s largest tournament in history and came face to face with one of the most valuable cards in the set. And it was absolutely useless for him. ... Pros seemed outraged that a player calling himself professional would choose the money over a better chance at winning."
https://monsaintroch.com/2020/nouvel-univers-magique-jeux-saint-roch/ "Le quartier Saint-Roch accueille depuis la mi-octobre une boutique de jeux .... Projet de Pascal Maynard, La Boutique Mythique propose des jeux de cartes, principalement Magic the Gathering."
transl. "Since mid-October, the Saint-Roch district has been home to a game store ... A project of Pascal Maynard, La Boutique Mythique offers card games, mainly Magic the Gathering."
Source: Branagh, Kenneth (1991). Beginning. New York: St. Martin's Press. ISBN 978-0-312-05822-7., p.153: "Jimmy and I enlisted the help of Brian Blessed, the Company’s fitness fanatic, who agreed to take us through a training programme"
ALT1: ... that before reading the script for the play Golden Girls, at least nine of the cast members were under the impression that they would be taking the lead role? Source: Branagh, Kenneth (1991). Beginning. New York: St. Martin's Press. ISBN 978-0-312-05822-7., p.152: "I asked around. Jimmy Yuill, Josette Simon, Polly James, Kate Bufferey. They were all playing the lead, and that made nine of us in total."
Source:
Eisenstein, Judah D. (1970). A Digest of Jewish Laws and Customs - in Alphabetical Order (Ozar Dinim u-Minhagim) (in Hebrew). Tel-Aviv: Ḥ. mo. l. pp. 228–229 (s.v. מלחמה).
OCLC54817857.;
Babylonian Talmud, Kiddushin 21b–22a
Reviewed:
Created by
Davidbena (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 6 past nominations.
Drive by comment: "forcibly have marital relations" should either be changed to "rape and forcibly marry" or attributed to a source, this is far too euphemistic to have in Wikipedia's voice.
Rusalkii (
talk) 05:03, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Okay, I'll make the change, although I do think that it is a bit too strong.
Davidbena (
talk) 11:44, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Source: "Khirbet el-Qutt -A Fortified Jewish Village in Southern Samaria from the Second Temple Period and the Bar Kokhba Revolt"; "Jewish Settlement in the Toparchy of Acraba during the Second Temple Period - The Archaeological Evidence". Judea and Samaria Research Studies8. 18: 177–200 – via academia.edu; "תולדות היישוב בהר שומרון בתקופה הרומית־ביזנטית". kotar.cet.ac.il. Retrieved 2024-05-21.
Reviewed:
Created by
Owenglyndur (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
Comment: I'd like to request for the date to be June 27th since that day is the third anniversary of the opening of the line and the third anniversary of the phrase being said.
On another note, as I will be going to China from tomorrow until the 30th, and as most will know Wikipedia can't be used in China, I'd appreciate some patience if I don't answer until after that date. I might use roaming to make minor edits or answer some questions before then, but I likely won't make any large-scale edits until after.
Created by
S5A-0043 (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 6 past nominations.
Comment (not a full review). Per the spirit of
WP:BLP, I do not think an article about an autistic boy who became an internet meme is suitable for the Main Page, especially if the full name is mentioned. (The original media reports used 羅先生 (Mr. Law) or 羅同學 (Classmate Law); I do not know when and which HK media started using the full name). The article itself mentions doxxing and negative attention; posting on our Main Page has the potential to lead to further harm. I would suggest not to post this without clear consensus otherwise from a place like
the BLP noticeboard. —
Kusma (
talk) 16:07, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
... that while reviewers generally praised The Rise and Fall of the Dinosaurs, one reviewer complained that
the author "was so nice about his colleagues that it makes you long for a juicy academic vendetta"?
Comment: I don't have a direct source for generally positive reviews, but I haven't been able to find a single review that didn't primarily praise the book. If this is an issue I can reword the hook to exclude that.
Created by
Rusalkii (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
Comment — I would probably add one or two supporting details to the hook to make it more interesting. A lot of people get sentenced to death, what makes Touré's sentence special? You could give the specific reason(s) or emphasize the fact that Touré, who served as an elected member of Burkina Faso's parliament, had previously been sentenced to death. Thus, despite a previous sentence, he went on to represent his country.
Yue🌙 18:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)reply
How about ALT1, "... that the Burkinabé trade union leader Soumane Touré was sentenced after being accused of collaboration with counter-revolutionaries, but his life was saved through the intervention of then President
Thomas Sankara?" --
Soman (
talk) 09:45, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
... that
Gramercy Pictures attempted to build publicity for Dazed and Confused by screening the film to antidrug and Christian groups to force a protest?
Source: Maerz, Melissa (2020). Alright, Alright, Alright: The Oral History of Richard Linklater's Dazed and Confused. HarperCollins. pp. 313-324
ALT1: ... that
Richard Linklater's original concept for Dazed and Confused took place entirely within a car as its characters listened to
ZZ Top? Source: Spitz, Marc (December 26, 2013). "An Oral History of Dazed and Confused". Maxim. Archived from the original on April 28, 2017. Retrieved May 7, 2017.
Reviewed:
Improved to Good Article status by
Lbal (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
I like the first DYK idea, especially how the studio forced a protest to bring attention to the movie. It's also reasonably sourced. Yoshiman6464♫🥚 14:04, 23 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Oracle bone inscription on an ox scapula, 11th century BCE
... that according to legend, the invention of Chinese characters(
oracle bone pictured) caused grain to rain from the sky and ghosts and demons to wail in frustration? Source: According to one tradition, Chinese characters were invented during the 3rd millennium BCE by
Cangjie, a scribe of the legendary
Yellow Emperor. Cangjie is said to have invented symbols called 字 (zì) due to his frustration with the limitations of knotting, taking inspiration from his study of the tracks of animals, landscapes, and the stars in the sky. On the day that these first characters were created, grain rained down from the sky; that night, the people heard the wailing of ghosts and demons, lamenting that humans could no longer be cheated.[1][2]
ALT1: ... that the oldest known Chinese characters were recorded on
oracle bones(example pictured)? Source: The oldest attested Chinese writing comprises a body of inscriptions produced during the
Late Shang period (
c. 1250 – 1050 BCE), with the very earliest examples from the reign of
Wu Ding dated between 1250 and 1200 BCE.[3][4]
Reviewed:
Improved to Good Article status by
Remsense (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
Source: The entry in the
Canterbury Dictionary of Hymnology: "Almost all commentators quote from John Wesley’s obituary of his brother at the Methodist Conference of 1788: ‘His least praise was his talent for poetry: although Dr Watts did not scruple to say, that “that single poem, Wrestling Jacob, was worth all the verses he himself had written”.’"
... that the sedge Schoenoplectus triqueter (pictured) can grow up to 1.5 metres (4 ft 11 in) tall, but with stems less than one-half centimetre (0.20 in) across?
Starting Review--
Kevmin§ 04:27, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
First question/note on the article is that the species presence in North America is only mentioned in the lede, but not at all covered in the distribution section. Ideally there shouldn't be citations in the lede so the mention of the Columbia River basin should be covered in distribution and elaborated on (what part of the columbia as is a large basin that covers a number of biozones.--
Kevmin§ 22:59, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Okay, I'll look for more sources and expand the Distribution section tomorrow. Cheers,
Cremastra (
talk) 01:35, 30 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Length, date, hook ok. No qpq needed. But too much close paraphrase from the ref GeorgiaBeforePeople, which furthermore is a blog and thus not
WP:RS. --
Soman (
talk) 21:13, 25 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Comment:
User:Alex 21 moved the article to the mainspace. While I am the primary author, a few other editors have contributed significantly to the article.
Moved to mainspace by
TheDoctorWho (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
Thank you for the extra ALT hooks! I originally had something similar to ALT4 drafted up, but I rewrote it because the source doesn't explicitly state that it was the fourth episode to omit it. While I don't dispute it's a fact, we only have two separate sources that previously three other previous episodes that exclude it, but not that those are the only three. It was a slight case of
WP:SYNTH and should probably be re-written in the article, unless such a source exists. That said, I don't have a problem with ALT3 if a reviewer chooses to accept it, but I do of course have a slight preference for the ones that I wrote 😅.
TheDoctorWho(talk) 04:16, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
... that a critic said that the
hors d'oeuvres served at Sud 777 could function as desserts and vice versa?
Source:
[22]ABC (newspaper): "Cocina que rompe esquemas en cuanto al orden y en la que algunos entrantes podrían ser postres y algunos postres entrantes [A cuisine that breaks the rules in terms of order and in which some starters could be desserts and some desserts could be starters]"
ALT1: ... that experts at the National Gallery in London believe that Anthony van Dyck executed a painting(pictured) of the subject's head and collar but over the years other artists expanded it? Source:
page 72
ALT2: ... that a portrait(pictured) at the National Gallery in London is considered a "problem painting" because it was
skinned and the early provenance is not known? Source:
page 71
... that Brittany Luse's podcast The Nod was praised for its exploration of "the diversity and richness of the Black experience"? Source: “ Like the podcast that inspired the Quibi show, it’s a project that draws from the diversity and richness of the Black experience”
Teen Vogue
ALT1: ... that the Oxtongue River was a
canoe route for indigenous people is still used for recreational
canoeing? Source: Refs #5 and #6
ALT2: ... that the Oxtongue River(pictured) flows through an ancient glacial spillway that drained meltwaters from the Algonquin Highlands into
Lake Algonquin? Source: Ref #6 (Oxtongue River-Ragged Falls Provincial Park Management Plan)
ALT1: ... that the Nabisco Shredded Wheat Factory was so attractive its image was printed on cereal packets until 1960? Source: Butterfield (1999) p.136
Reviewed:
Comment: Butterfield 1999 [The European Cities and Technology Reader: Industrial to Post-industrial City] available on the open library, but I can send extracts if needed. No preference for either hook, feel free to modify as needed.
Moved to mainspace by
Pahunkat (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
... that the two songs of Op. 1 by
Arnold Schönberg(pictured), "Abschied" (Farewell) and "Dank" (Thanks), were first performed in Vienna in 1900, with
Zemlinsky at the piano, to a hostile reaction of the audience? Source:
Gerlach
Comment: We are in a Schönberg year. I couldn't believe his Op. 1 (not 12-tone yet, rather expressionist but no room for that in a hook) had no article. Planning to write more about text and music but busy the next few days. I believe we should picture him this year ;)
Created by
Gerda Arendt (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 2107 past nominations.
Great work as always on these pieces. QPQ, article eligibility, source, and general presentation checks out. The hook seems like it could be condensed just a tad to ease readability; maybe something along the lines of "the first public performance of two songs from
Arnold Schoenberg's (pictured)Op. 1 was met with hostile reactions from the audience?" The picture is pretty nice!
Generalissima (
talk) (it/she) 23:23, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Thank you fort the review! Yes, it could be condensed, but what would be left had much in common with other pieces, and I find the position of pictured awkward. We should also not say that in Wikipedia voice when it was the wording of one critic, also the ridicule in the other's wording was perhaps a bit more unique. "two songs from" is correct but misleading, because the opus is exactly these two songs. Please give me some more days to write about text and music, both loaded with emotion which the titles suggest a bit, I think. (But Schönberg knew why he didn't call them simply lieder (songs) but - like Brahms sometimes - Gesänge, a more sophisticate form for which English has no word, or has it? Then we could use that.) - You could also listen. I did, see the
Liviu Holender hook. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 05:39, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Zemlinsky was not only the pianist, but Schönberg's teacher, the dedicatee of the songs, and to become his brother in law. Some will associate that with the name. He is also one of the composers whose music was banned by the Nazis, see the Holender hook. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 05:42, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I have to agree with Generalissima here. The original hook has too much detail and is thus too dense. The alternative wording proposed is direct to the point and makes the point of the hook clearer. Readers might get lost with the first hook, the second hook is much more understandable.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 03:43, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
While all this is true and not new: we celebrate 150 years of Schönberg and his music, and it's nothing new and no surprise that people react to it with hostility. I was surprised that his first works were songs. I was surprised that they were recorded by four of the greatest names singing and playing (but you may not know them so I dropped the idea of saying that). I was surprised to learn how close Zemlinsky was to him, not just teacher but friend and later family. - Did you listen? - The music of these two composers were banned by the Nazis, - we could do a bit more positive for it than saying the reaction was hostility, no? - On 29 May
The Rite of Spring was premiered to an almost riot, DYK? --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 08:23, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
As a compromise, can't we just go with Generalissima's wording? It basically says the same thing as the original hook except more concisely, and if the point is to promote Schoenberg, they still do it.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 09:28, 30 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Hey man im josh: Looking at the link, I see Wojciechowicz (1), Graham (2), Tittle (3), Karras (4), B. Sanders (5), Johnson (6), Stanfel (7), Biletnikoff (8), Barney (9), Lary (10), C. Sanders (11), Christiansen (12), Schmidt (13), Speedie (14) and Creekmur (15). Am I missing something?
BeanieFan11 (
talk) 16:59, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
BeanieFan11: Looks like it was me who was missing something. I believe I accidently counted
Doak Walker, who wasn't actually drafted by the Lions. I've updated this nom and the article appropriately. I also updated the DYK statement's wikilinking (but not the wording outside of the number of players).
Hey man im josh (
talk) 17:10, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
... that the Eocene fish Erismatopterus has been preserved in shoaling formation?
Source: Mizumoto, N.; Miyata, S.; Pratt, S.C. (2019), "Inferring collective behaviour from a fossilized fish shoal"
ALT1: ... that young Erismatopterus formed shoals as a likely way to avoid predators? Source: Mizumoto, N.; Miyata, S.; Pratt, S.C. (2019), "Inferring collective behaviour from a fossilized fish shoal"
... that a mail-order catalogue offered a "Rocking Ram" toy designed by Charleen Kinser for $1600 in 1985?
Source: Gilman-Tompkins, Sherri (8 May 1985). "Tiniest Yuppies Treated Royally in this Catalogue". Chicago Tribune – via
ProQuest. Take the $1,600 Rocking Ram by Forever Toys, which will be available in the next catalogue. The animal's fleece is made of three types of sheepskin, hand pieced and stitched.
Reviewed:
Comment: I will do a QPQ shortly
Created by
Gråbergs Gråa Sång (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 9 past nominations.
Source: Murphy, Aisling (2023-08-25). "Mississauga man behind Canadian self-harm websites linked to 88 deaths in the U.K." CTV News Toronto. Retrieved 2024-05-29.
Comment: I don't think there's any way to prevent a protracted debate about BLP, but I'd say that ship has
long-sincesailed when it comes to negative DYK hooks. Furthermore, Law has already publicly stated he sold the substance, the only question is whether he sold it illegally.
Moved to mainspace by
Bremps (
talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 8 past nominations.
Also noting that Peel Police had investigated suspicious deaths before the The Times article, but there is no indication that they knew about Law or had been planning on arresting him speedily. The CTV article states that the exposé lead to Law's arrest, which should be enough as a citation.
Bremps... 21:14, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Source: Summary of the article sections 'Rise to power' and 'Downfall and death'.
ALT1: ... that the attempts of
Fatimidvizieral-Ma'mun al-Bata'ihi to construct an astronomical observatory led to rumours of his wanting to use it to predict the future or perform magics? Source: Halm, p. 139: "im Volk munkelte man gar, dieser habe mit Hilfe des Saturn die Zukunft zu ergründen oder Magie zu treiben versucht"
... that all solutions of the Erdős–Moser equation correspond to
convergents of
ln(2), yielding "one of very few instances where a large scale computation of a numerical constant has an application"?
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