This case is now closed and pages relating to it may no longer be watched
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Case clerk: Dreamy Jazz ( Talk) Drafting arbitrators: BDD ( Talk) & Primefac ( Talk) & Maxim ( Talk)
Wikipedia Arbitration |
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Track related changes |
Behaviour on this page: Arbitration case pages exist to assist the Arbitration Committee in arriving at a fair, well-informed decision. You are required to act with appropriate decorum during this case. While grievances must often be aired during a case, you are expected to air them without being rude or hostile, and to respond calmly to allegations against you. Accusations of misbehaviour posted in this case must be proven with clear evidence (and otherwise not made at all). Editors who conduct themselves inappropriately during a case may be sanctioned by an arbitrator, clerk, or functionary, without further warning, by being banned from further participation in the case, or being blocked altogether. Personal attacks against other users, including arbitrators or the clerks, will be met with sanctions. Behavior during a case may also be considered by the committee in arriving at a final decision.
FWIW I agree with Procrastinating Reader that this doesn't put any more power in the hands of one editor than in the hands of all editors. Every editor is free to dispute content not souced to recent scholarship by saying, "Hey, I don't think that's appropriate for inclusion. Please find it in recent scholarship." For disputed content, only recent scholarship can be used. I disagree with both Joe Roe and SD that this means pre-2000 details can't be included. It means they can't be included if they're disputed and no recent scholarship is even discussing them. Which in the case of a subject which is thoroughly covered in recent scholarship is as it should be, IMO. If there's copious recent scholarship about a subject, and none of those scholars are even discussing something, why would anyone argue to include it? If they are mentioning it, we report what they say. —valereee ( talk) 16:55, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
The majority of the Kurds in Syria are originally Turkish Kurds, who left Turkey in the 1920s in order to escape the harsh repression of the Kurds in that country. These Kurds were later joined in Syria by a new large group that drifted out of Turkey throughout the interwar period during which the Turkish campaign to assimilate its Kurdish population was at it highest.
References
GPinkerton posted her evidence very late on the 5th before the discussion was closed: [1] I want to assume good faith and hope this was by accident, but how am I and other editors supposed to rebuttal when she posted her evidence 30 minutes before the closure? -- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 02:45, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
As the evidence phase has been extended, the phase will now end in around 27 hours at or after 00:00 9 February 2021. Although evidence may be submitted up to the deadline, it is better that you post your evidence sooner than later to ensure that you get it in before the phase closes. Dreamy Jazz talk to me | my contributions 21:20, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
My main evidence is below 1000 words, but if you ad the rebuttals to GPinkerton and Valereee it is longer. I this okey? -- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 11:36, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
allare meant at the word extension? And the evidence extension is also for
all? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paradise Chronicle ( talk • contribs) 01:47, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
My evidence is 1000 words and I got 500 extra for my rebuttals. GPinkerion and Amr got 2K words each. I then asked for 105 extra words and did not receive it and now the evidence page is closed. How is this fair?-- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 12:31, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
How can i defend my self? I deleted the map because it was added by a blocked sock. I fighting actively against several sock puppets. Shadow4dark ( talk) 00:25, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
As we see, the case gets rather vivid and some rules that are also enforced would help. Please impose rules and sanctions, but equally for all editors involved in the ArbCom Case on Kurds and Kurdistan. For example if a complaint comes that the late presentation of evidence by GPinkerton doesn't allow rebuttals, only allow rebuttals. Then if you allow to exceed the word limit to one editor, other editors will also exceed. If you don't say something on the validity of the evidence we must assume you see evidence relating to Bulgaria and Christianity as valid for Kurds and Kurdistan. Paradise Chronicle ( talk) 03:30, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
I've probably drafted for about 5 hours on the Tell Abyad rebuttal and analysis and it is still rather modest. If we would only know what evidence is seen as valid and which not. Most of the evidence I can respond to with a clear rebuttal, but searching all the diffs...let alone the presentation of the sources for the finding of facts. Maybe this is just for a case in the future, but I think that if requested, the evaluation of the evidence could be enhanced. Paradise Chronicle ( talk) 21:03, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
L235, Maxim, Beeblebrox, Dreamy Jazz: Is canvassing to game the system and bypass the word restriction here allowed? You may want to see this. If it's OK, then I'll be on look out for volunteers to add a few dozen differences to the evidence. Cheers, Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم ( talk) 05:42, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
@ Supreme Deliciousness, Semsûrî, Brunswicknic, Valereee, ProcrastinatingReader, Paradise Chronicle, El C, عمرو بن كلثوم, GPinkerton, and Shadow4dark: Hi everyone, I hope you're doing well and sorry for the mass ping – out of fairness I'm pinging everyone who has sent in evidence, even though this doesn't apply to many of you. I know ArbCom cases can be stressful and the tension can run pretty high, but I encourage you to take a moment and remember why you're submitting evidence. In the end, you're trying to convince ArbCom (14 pretty busy people) of your position, and word limits are actually designed to help you do that. Extensions to 2,000 words have already been granted to many case participants, and in my experience that is enough space in even the most complex cases if some effort is made to explain things well but concisely. Trying to think of ways to game the rules doesn't generally reflect well on parties attempting to do so, and there is no guarantee that evidence submitted that way will be be accorded equal recognition.
Separately, and as a general statement, I want to note that we (obviously) frown upon selective quotations and misrepresentations of what others have said, and such behavior may see a finding at the final decision. (I hasten to add: don't go around accusing others, here or at workshop, of selective quotation and misrepresentation unless you have solid evidence that that's what they intended to do!) Best, KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 20:54, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
This case is now closed and pages relating to it may no longer be watched
|
Case clerk: Dreamy Jazz ( Talk) Drafting arbitrators: BDD ( Talk) & Primefac ( Talk) & Maxim ( Talk)
Wikipedia Arbitration |
---|
|
Track related changes |
Behaviour on this page: Arbitration case pages exist to assist the Arbitration Committee in arriving at a fair, well-informed decision. You are required to act with appropriate decorum during this case. While grievances must often be aired during a case, you are expected to air them without being rude or hostile, and to respond calmly to allegations against you. Accusations of misbehaviour posted in this case must be proven with clear evidence (and otherwise not made at all). Editors who conduct themselves inappropriately during a case may be sanctioned by an arbitrator, clerk, or functionary, without further warning, by being banned from further participation in the case, or being blocked altogether. Personal attacks against other users, including arbitrators or the clerks, will be met with sanctions. Behavior during a case may also be considered by the committee in arriving at a final decision.
FWIW I agree with Procrastinating Reader that this doesn't put any more power in the hands of one editor than in the hands of all editors. Every editor is free to dispute content not souced to recent scholarship by saying, "Hey, I don't think that's appropriate for inclusion. Please find it in recent scholarship." For disputed content, only recent scholarship can be used. I disagree with both Joe Roe and SD that this means pre-2000 details can't be included. It means they can't be included if they're disputed and no recent scholarship is even discussing them. Which in the case of a subject which is thoroughly covered in recent scholarship is as it should be, IMO. If there's copious recent scholarship about a subject, and none of those scholars are even discussing something, why would anyone argue to include it? If they are mentioning it, we report what they say. —valereee ( talk) 16:55, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
The majority of the Kurds in Syria are originally Turkish Kurds, who left Turkey in the 1920s in order to escape the harsh repression of the Kurds in that country. These Kurds were later joined in Syria by a new large group that drifted out of Turkey throughout the interwar period during which the Turkish campaign to assimilate its Kurdish population was at it highest.
References
GPinkerton posted her evidence very late on the 5th before the discussion was closed: [1] I want to assume good faith and hope this was by accident, but how am I and other editors supposed to rebuttal when she posted her evidence 30 minutes before the closure? -- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 02:45, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
As the evidence phase has been extended, the phase will now end in around 27 hours at or after 00:00 9 February 2021. Although evidence may be submitted up to the deadline, it is better that you post your evidence sooner than later to ensure that you get it in before the phase closes. Dreamy Jazz talk to me | my contributions 21:20, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
My main evidence is below 1000 words, but if you ad the rebuttals to GPinkerton and Valereee it is longer. I this okey? -- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 11:36, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
allare meant at the word extension? And the evidence extension is also for
all? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paradise Chronicle ( talk • contribs) 01:47, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
My evidence is 1000 words and I got 500 extra for my rebuttals. GPinkerion and Amr got 2K words each. I then asked for 105 extra words and did not receive it and now the evidence page is closed. How is this fair?-- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 12:31, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
How can i defend my self? I deleted the map because it was added by a blocked sock. I fighting actively against several sock puppets. Shadow4dark ( talk) 00:25, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
As we see, the case gets rather vivid and some rules that are also enforced would help. Please impose rules and sanctions, but equally for all editors involved in the ArbCom Case on Kurds and Kurdistan. For example if a complaint comes that the late presentation of evidence by GPinkerton doesn't allow rebuttals, only allow rebuttals. Then if you allow to exceed the word limit to one editor, other editors will also exceed. If you don't say something on the validity of the evidence we must assume you see evidence relating to Bulgaria and Christianity as valid for Kurds and Kurdistan. Paradise Chronicle ( talk) 03:30, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
I've probably drafted for about 5 hours on the Tell Abyad rebuttal and analysis and it is still rather modest. If we would only know what evidence is seen as valid and which not. Most of the evidence I can respond to with a clear rebuttal, but searching all the diffs...let alone the presentation of the sources for the finding of facts. Maybe this is just for a case in the future, but I think that if requested, the evaluation of the evidence could be enhanced. Paradise Chronicle ( talk) 21:03, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
L235, Maxim, Beeblebrox, Dreamy Jazz: Is canvassing to game the system and bypass the word restriction here allowed? You may want to see this. If it's OK, then I'll be on look out for volunteers to add a few dozen differences to the evidence. Cheers, Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم ( talk) 05:42, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
@ Supreme Deliciousness, Semsûrî, Brunswicknic, Valereee, ProcrastinatingReader, Paradise Chronicle, El C, عمرو بن كلثوم, GPinkerton, and Shadow4dark: Hi everyone, I hope you're doing well and sorry for the mass ping – out of fairness I'm pinging everyone who has sent in evidence, even though this doesn't apply to many of you. I know ArbCom cases can be stressful and the tension can run pretty high, but I encourage you to take a moment and remember why you're submitting evidence. In the end, you're trying to convince ArbCom (14 pretty busy people) of your position, and word limits are actually designed to help you do that. Extensions to 2,000 words have already been granted to many case participants, and in my experience that is enough space in even the most complex cases if some effort is made to explain things well but concisely. Trying to think of ways to game the rules doesn't generally reflect well on parties attempting to do so, and there is no guarantee that evidence submitted that way will be be accorded equal recognition.
Separately, and as a general statement, I want to note that we (obviously) frown upon selective quotations and misrepresentations of what others have said, and such behavior may see a finding at the final decision. (I hasten to add: don't go around accusing others, here or at workshop, of selective quotation and misrepresentation unless you have solid evidence that that's what they intended to do!) Best, KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 20:54, 9 February 2021 (UTC)