Been deleted, no problem. speedy criterion G7 covers that one, a mistakenly created page that the author requests deletion of. You can place {{ db-author}} on those too, or of course I'm happy to help. Seraphimblade Talk to me 04:01, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
But isn't it? Abortion is murder, no matter what Wikipedia says. -- 69.67.230.109 03:36, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Mackan,
I was hoping that the list could be collaborative, and created by multiple parties. There are other posters who know more about certain controversies than myself, and vice versa. CJCurrie 22:00, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Hi Mackan, I understand your points. I do think that the current 'protected' template, as I noted in the Talk page, clearly tells the readers that there is a dispute among editors, that the version is locked, and that the locking does not necessarily endorse the locked version. I find that a very reasonable top-level description of the status quo. Any interested reader can then go to the Talk page with one click and read further details there. Although I strongly believe that we must unlock the entry ASAP, we don't want to descend immediately into renewed edit wars, which will just get us back to where we are now, so it seems logical to insist on mediation. I hope you all can move that process along ASAP. Crum375 15:30, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
What do you think of incorporating the newest allegations and info, the 7 new items on the Discussion page? Kritt 06:03, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for letting me know about the article. I will read it as soon as I can -- Aminz 01:09, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Wouldn't your vote more accurately be described as rename or move?-- Urthogie 21:49, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
The compromise has nothing to do with the 3rr, which as you said is relatively inconsequential to me. It has to do with my observation on reflection that Adam and Moodley are dealing with position on Israel as an apartheid state, not all the types of accusation.-- Urthogie 20:52, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
With so many different "allegations"-related deletion votes going on, it occurred to me that you might have missed this one: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Allegations of apartheid (third nomination).
Nice work on NAS. All best, -- G-Dett 14:00, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
The article Stephen Breyer you nominated as a good article has passed , see Talk:Stephen Breyer for eventual comments about the article. Good luck in future nominations. I have left some comments as to how to further improve the article on Talk:Stephen Breyer. Please feel free to message me if you have any queries. LordHarris 01:07, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Hello,
An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Zeq-Zero0000. Please add any evidence you may wish the arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Zeq-Zero0000/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Zeq-Zero0000/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, David Mestel( Talk) 19:39, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
can we clarify what place the allegations would find in this article?-- Urthogie 22:28, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Ok. I think that the sources that list people that aren't especially notable should be turned into source lists, like a list of israeli academics, or a list of MP's, etc. Because these people are notable when taken as a group. This sound like a good way to start the talk page version?-- Urthogie 15:22, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Please take a quick glance at the edit history pages for Allegations of Saudi Arabian apartheid and Allegations of Brazilian apartheid and review the history of Hafrada (Separation) and it's older version Hafrada. Something to consider in light of the discussions surrounding Allegations of Israeli apartheid. I have tried very hard to WP:AGF, but IMO there are a couple of editors who have gone too far. Tiamut 15:48, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
I wonder if you might take a look at this Mackan. Whatever one may think of this user's edits, it seems to me he's being railroaded here.-- G-Dett 18:53, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to hear the case for why these red links shouldn't be there. Generally, red links are supposed to be on templates if applicable.-- Urthogie 16:01, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
you might want to argue your other points -- Urthogie 16:16, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
-- Ian Pitchford 19:51, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
First off, you seem to forget that we are advised to be bold. Second, if you object to certain changes, feel free to bring them up on the talk page where a discussion has already been taking place before I made any edits. Thanks VanTucky 17:40, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Hi Mackan -- the sentence which you say is at issue would seem to rule out the Vatican as well as Israel: "The opposite end of the spectrum from separation is a theocracy, in which the state is founded upon the institution of religion, and the rule of law is based on the dictates of a religious court." The law in the Vatican state with regard to civil secular matters parallels that of Italy. Under the Lateran treaty, crimes are not handled by the "dictates of a religious court" but are prosecuted by Italy in Italian secular courts. Both states are "founded upon the institution of religion" and have citizenship laws which give unique privilege to religious adherents. I'll agree that Israel should be deleted on this basis if the Vatican City is deleted on the same basis. Neither is a traditional theocracy, but both have a unique and essential tie to a religion. Mamalujo 18:59, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for your efforts to tighten up the prose on Joseph Priestley; they are, by and large, effective. I hesitate to say this, but I wonder if it is the best use of your wikipedia time to copy edit this article at this time. Much is going to have to be removed from this article and whole sections are going to be reworded since it is too long, so I am not sure that this is the moment to go over the language with a fine-toothed comb, looking for superfluous words or slightly awkward phrasings. You are welcome to do so - I just wanted to make you aware of the ongoing editing and the possibility that whole sections you have carefully corrected may be deleted or radically revised in the near future. Awadewit | talk 05:44, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Could you please review a controversy currently brewing at this page? CJCurrie 02:05, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
The Editor's Barnstar | ||
For boldly disentangling Fundamentalism and Fundamentalist Christianity. Groupthink 20:11, 18 July 2007 (UTC) |
its customary to comment on users who create accounts for the sole purpose of adding to an AFD.-- Urthogie 15:28, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Hi Mackan, can you do it? I'm not absolutely sure what you're referring to, and I'm running out the door... whereever you think it should go is fine with me.-- G-Dett 18:52, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
This is a message for all regulars at the “apartheid” AfD series. I believe there may have been a breakthrough. Please share your thoughts here. Thanks. -- Targeman 03:03, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
... for your valiant attempt to cleanup the Cult article that has suffered from bias, lack of sources and other maladies for long enough. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 00:09, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Greetings about the Template for Discrimination Project. I'm leaving a note for you and other recent editors so the back and forth editing of the Discrimination template will cease and those interested can dialog about the need to include or not include an article. Please use Template talk:Discrimination and start a new section "Include _____ ?" so that others can also help keep the discussion constructive. thank you. Benjiboi 17:08, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm truly sorry about this one : [1] ! I mixed up the links, editing in the same time the oldids on my userpage [2] to keep track of the last diff of each article i already read. Sorry again. NicDumZ ~ 14:56, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Following your recent participation in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Allegations of French apartheid, you may be interested to know that a related article, Allegations of Chinese apartheid, is currently being discussed on AfD. Comments can be left at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Allegations of Chinese apartheid. -- ChrisO 15:57, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
Hello,
An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Allegations of apartheid. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Allegations of apartheid/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Allegations of apartheid/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Newyorkbrad 18:11, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
As you've edited the tempate itself I'm wondering what your thoughts are on the TFD discussion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion#Template:Allegations_of_apartheid? Lothar of the Hill People 21:58, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Hey, sorry I did not respond earlier. Been very busy in RL, and wrapped up in the AoIa Rfar thing. I'd like to continue this discussion with you, time permitting, but would prefer to do it on-wiki, unless you have thoughts that are really so private you don't want them shared, which I guess I can understand. For my part, I think I can speak about this issue perhaps more generally, as my earlier approach seems to have annoyed you (though I assure you that was not at all what I intended). IronDuke 04:22, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Please see Talk:Allegations_of_apartheid#Propose_move_to_.22Apartheid_analogies.22. Lothar of the Hill People 21:10, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi I see you reverted the last edit on Discrimination against atheists where you removed the word "other". You cited the word "other" being in violation of NPOV policies and I just wanted to know your rationale for that. The article originally had the word "other" in it, which was subsequently removed, and I changed that back. Thank you. Obac88667 22:56, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
I am conducting reviews of Law articles listed as Good as a part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. A week ago I put Stephen Breyer article on hold, but have not received any answer. I don't realy want to delist this article, so could you address those issues? (see Talk:Stephen Breyer#GA Sweeps (on hold)) Ruslik 10:34, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Regarding your evidence, I blocked WB because he posted to Gary Weiss that Weiss was editing as MM on Wikipedia, plus some other potentially defamatory material that was only partly sourced. The edit was deleted, which is why you can't find it. I blocked the account, told him I would unblock if he would assure me he wouldn't post it again, to which he responded by posting it again. Therefore, the block stood. The block had nothing to do with claims about sockpuppets or vandalism. SlimVirgin (talk) (contribs) 20:16, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
The linked material is an attack on a living person, GW, unsupported by reliable sources. In addition, the linked material includes an outing attempt of a Wikipedian. Both violate BLP and must be removed by anyone, per:
Editors should remove any contentious material about living persons that is unsourced, relies upon sources that do not meet standards specified in Wikipedia:Verifiability, or is a conjectural interpretation of a source (see Wikipedia:No original research). The three-revert rule does not apply to such removals. Content may be re-inserted only if it conforms to this policy. These principles apply to biographical material about living persons found anywhere in Wikipedia, including user and talk pages. Administrators may enforce the removal of such material with page protection and blocks, even if they have been editing the article themselves. Editors who re-insert the material may be warned and blocked. See the blocking policy and Wikipedia:Libel.
Crum375 ( talk) 18:00, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Mackan79 - I responded to you on my page. Should I also here? If so, my answer was, your point is taken and respected. I am just learning my way around here and will in the future check on such matters before posting. Best, Patrick PatrickByrne ( talk) 01:30, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
No, there is not. It's almost certainly been oversighted. — Random832 04:28, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
That link has a timestamp of 22:28, as can be seen in the url itself: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Special:Undelete
&target=User_talk:WordBomb×tamp=20060707222852&diff=prev . —
Random832 22:47, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
Following apparently libellous attacks on this article, you removed all reference to Neve Gordon's libel action against Steven Plaut. This removes the main part of the article. I have restored my edit from this morning, which removed the libels and distortions inserted by apparent sockpuppets of User:Truthprofessor, and relied on an objective NPOV report in The Chronicle of Higher Education, rtaher than on the smears and lies of FrontPage Magazine. I hope you will agree that this is better than leaving the article almost empty, and without reference to this important issue. It is likely that Truthprofessor will try again to repeat his libels of Gordon in this article, so best keep a watch on it! Thanks RolandR ( talk) 17:37, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
George, the lack of thought here is somewhat striking. I can only assume you think I was referencing an email that WordBomb sent you in my earlier comment. If so, please look for an email I sent you on December 7, 2007 which began:
If the issue is something else, please let me know. Mackan79 ( talk) 05:56, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Again - do I have your permission to post the email? Your comment I diff'ed from earlier tonight matches Bagley emails to me, and not your email to me from December. I am happy to put the email in evidence on ANI, or you can here and I'll confirm if it's what I received. Georgewilliamherbert ( talk) 06:21, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
The relevant portion of my email follows:
I didn't receive a response. Since then I've criticized GWH's comments on Bagley in what I consider strong terms at least twice on the evidence page. Please do not post my email. Mackan79 ( talk) 06:22, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Unblocked per [4] Viridae Talk 06:37, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks Viridae. To clarify, I'm absolutely not Bagley, and it is absurd. The history of my involvement in this dispute is offered on the evidence page, including specifically why I am concerned about some of the rhetoric that has been leveled at Bagley. This is a mistake based on an email that GWH apparently forgot that I sent him, or did not see. That's fine; the fact that he would block me without comment is less so, but perhaps can be discussed politely, hopefully beginning with GWH recognizing an obvious mistake. Mackan79 ( talk) 06:39, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
I hope you're not as angry as I was when I was first indef. blocked out of the blue - but regardless, I wanted to offer a note of support, and I hope it's sorted out very quickly. You should never have been blocked. Privatemusings ( talk) 06:35, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Same here, Mackan. Don't let this foolish move by someone sour you on this place. SirFozzie ( talk) 06:47, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Hope you at least get a laugh out of this permanent typo on your record. :) Lawrence § t/ e 06:46, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks all very much for the comments. I'm hoping to hear further about whatever people are looking at. I find it rather surprising that someone would block based on something that could so easily be checked and verified (whether or not I sent an email), but perhaps my thoughts aren't impartial. I'm hoping I'll hear further if there is anything more happening on this. Mackan79 ( talk) 07:36, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Given the absoloute proof provided that you are not a sockpuppet, I did a bit of IAR and noted it in your block log with a one second block. Not a practice I usually encourage, but allegations of sockpuppetry are quite a stain and you are quite clearly innocent of them. Hope you feel better in the morning, the community is clearly on your side. Viridae Talk 10:54, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks again for the further comments from everyone. I won't have time to look at this again until a bit later in the day. I am interested, if slightly dubious, in any coming explanation for having blocked me as a sock of a very controversial user, apparently after a negative checkuser result, as a heavily invovled editor, and without thinking to raise the issue first. I won't catalogue the various other problems here to see if maybe GWH recognizes them himself, although I will suggest it might have helped to have looked and seen that I started editing before WordBomb registered (and as any CU should be able to verify even then from a static IP very far from Utah). So be it, I'll have to see what GWH says. Mackan79 ( talk) 14:38, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
I've been off Wikipedia since yesterday and only now became aware of GWH's inane block. If I'd been on when it happened I'd have insisted I be blocked as well. You may be too peeved at the moment to be thinking about silver linings, but...this total breakdown of common sense may bring needed attention to unaddressed issues in the Weiss-Bagley affair, including the problems of systemic bias and Wordbomb hysteria among incompetent admins.-- G-Dett ( talk) 16:42, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
I've gotten assurances from arbcom members and checkusers that they have investigated this and are fully unambiguously certain that you aren't Bagley. They can't show me the detailed evidence, as I am not a checkuser, but they have described the type and extent of checks, and based on those descriptions I believe their conclusions.
I want to apologize to you for having misinterpreted the situation last night. I don't know for sure the degree to which it was your presumably inadvertently and unawarely using some language Bagley did elsewhere, or my oversensitivity in this case. But I believe I was in error, and I owe you an apology for the block and fuss. I'm sorry, I goofed. I would note this as a mistake and record the apology in your block log if I could do so conveniently.
As I stated last night, I really don't want to affect anyone's participation in the MM debates and didn't intend that effect from the block. Had I not concluded mistakenly that you were Judd, I would have never bothered you about any of your actions or discussion. To the extent that this all interfered in that legitimate debate, I apologize again.
I was off in meetings all morning and I'm just finished up with email - I have no idea what else has been discussed where regarding this, in terms of catching up from last night, but I felt that it was most appropriate to come directly here and apologize to you first, and follow up elsewhere later. I will note my mistake and an apology on my talk page and on ANI as well.
I would like to additionally thank you for remaining civil and calm through the stress that my mistake dropped on you. Georgewilliamherbert ( talk) 22:59, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Hi Mackan, thanks for fixing my comment on George's talk page - obviously I did mean you and not MM. It's a pity that "Mackan" and "Mantan" are so similar. Perhaps we could deal with that by calling you "the Mack" and Mantan "the Man" since those are a bit more distinct and can both be considered complementary nicknames. :) Anyhow, thanks for the correction!-- Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 17:37, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
The Special Barnstar | ||
For dealing with unfair treatment in a graceful, dignified manner. *Dan T.* ( talk) 22:54, 14 March 2008 (UTC) |
I notice that you appear to be using Wikipedia to engage in baseless and rather wild attacks on SlimVirgin. Please stop. [6] For genuine and well founded concerns about serious misconduct, please follow the dispute resolution procedure and avoid making personal attacks. -- Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The 15:14, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
I decided to put their edits in the same spreadsheet I've used previously. Going back to September 18, 2006 (SlimVirgin's last 25,000 edits, and the last 9120 or so for Crum375), they have 385 edit collisions—that is, they edited during the same minute 385 times. I've also made these graphs that suggest that Crum375 lives on more regular hours, while SlimVirgin definitely does not.
Of course, Tony would tell you that these methods are untested so mean nothing. I just thought you should keep them in mind. If you still think SlimVirgin might have access to the Crum375 account, perhaps you could look at the edits that Crum375 made in the early morning when the account usually does not. I, at least, would demand a smoking gun, because I'm not seeing it here.
See also:
Cool Hand Luke 16:42, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
It doesn't matter if they're two different people or not (and, for that matter, no-one, not even WordBomb, thinks they are the same person as far as I know) - but countless incidents of him showing up to support her on pages that he's never had a single edit before is a pattern of disruptive meatpuppetry (and if he were showing up on the same pages at the same times to _oppose_ her, he'd have been banned long ago for wikistalking) — Random832 23:01, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
I note that in the past four months you've made significant edits to the following articles:
SlimVirgin doesn't seem to have any involvement in those articles. The latest attack on SlimVirgin seems to have been provoked by her decision to comment yesterday on your request for an inappropriate block to be removed from your log. In the discussion she mentioned an incident from last year in which several people had asked you to stop behavior that had the appearance of wikistalking towards her. I also note that, perhaps thinking it better to avoid picking at ancient wounds, she removed it a little over half an hour later. Her edit summary was "removing parts of my previous post that were too personal and had no bearing on this issue".
Your own comment came a few minutes after that, and you promptly removed it when you realised that she had removed her own.
This looks to me like a case of bad blood between you and SlimVirgin. I'll ask you both to continue trying to avoid one another, and I really would like to see you drop these inappropriate and poorly founded investigations into a possible connection between two editors who are both in good standing and, even you seem to admit, not socks of one another. -- Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The 18:23, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
I can appreciate your efforts Tony, particularly on what information you may have, but I don't think this is an effective resolution. As I said, one of the problems here has been the two of them going from one article to another, revert warring, and then making accusations toward any others who arrive. This has recently been discussed on AN/I, as I take you’ve seen. [7]
My problem is that after first experiencing the way SV has often operated in disputes with Crum’s assistance (though largely failing despite the fully panoply of efforts attempted), [8] I ended up looking into it further, for the reasons given on SV's talk page. [9] Upon doing so I found a number of things. One was that Crum375 had added an edit counting script to their monobook within a week of editing. Another was the fact that Crum encountered SV within three weeks, [10] [11] [12] [13] quickly editing numerous articles with SV, [14] [15] [16] from some amount of knowledge. I noticed that somehow during this Crum375 had actually added a direct URL to Daniel Brandt’s hivemind page on his bio (now deleted). When Phil Sandifer removed it, Crum then had this explanation for how they found Brandt’s page and why they made the edit, before suddenly realizing the problem with such a URL. [17] [18] And yet, before this realization, Crum had left these two comments on SV and Flonight’s talk pages. I found that apparently Crum's first substantive edit to policy was on June 25 of 2006 on Verifiability to revert a "non-consensual edit by Francis Shonken" to a version by SV without any further explanation, [19] after Shonken had said to SV that jumping to reverts rather than discussion on the talk page was inappropriate. [20]
There are other things, most predominantly the sheer amount of editing they do together, across many completely unrelated topics. The point became clear that at some very early point Crum started following Slim around for the predominance of their editing and with very few exceptions. In this context, I saw that some of Crum’s early edits focused specifically on the history of science, [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] including to the portal on that subject, [26] [27] [28] one that SV had said in her first edit was one of her own primary interests. [29]
What does it indicate? Without getting into everything, I found it to indicate two editors who are at least close friends, apparently from before the creation of Crum’s account. I found this problematic for other reasons. I don’t go further, because I don’t think it’s sufficiently indicated or could be proved (or possibly needs to be, per some of the arguments that you’ve recently made). However, considering the amount of controversy that has surrounded this situation, and if there isn’t a response, I think that probably it should be discussed, and as well that there are probably few people with more standing to raise it. In that regard, I hope the discussion can remain reasonable, and focused on legitimate issues. Mackan79 ( talk) 20:43, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Except you did no such thing, did you, Tony? You didn't "ask SV" to avoid Mackan79 at all, not according to her User Talk page - you just decided you were going to "warn" one side of a dispute, but thought it best to paint it as an objective "I'm going to ask you both". Please refactor, or cite. Achromatic ( talk) 04:46, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
In view of your disappointing responses and continued unwarranted personal attacks and baseless speculation about SlimVirgin, I am taking this matter to the arbitration committee. [32]. -- Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The 21:40, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
For your information, I have asked FT2 to make a change in his comment [33]. Risker ( talk) 00:21, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
I've started drafting an RfC that you might be interested in here. Please feel free if you'd like to participate in adding anything to it that you feel might be relevant. Cla68 ( talk) 02:28, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
In response to your question regarding e-mails from IPFrehley to a arbitrator, I have no record of receiving such an e-mail from IPFrehley, nor do I have any recollection of him sending me that e-mail. I've been using that Wikipedia e-mail account since 2005, and there's no need to delete e-mails in G-mail (I've never been anywhere near my limit), so if I had received it, I should have been able to find it. Jayjg (talk) 02:49, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Hi Mackan, I have always strongly supported WP's core policies and still do. They are far from perfect, but have produced a top-10 website, so they are obviously not that bad either. The case you mention where I disagreed with many editors had to do with BLP protection, which IMO trumps a local and temporary consensus. Crum375 ( talk) 20:45, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the warning. I didn't realize that WR was controversial. See my further comments at the noticeboard. JBFrenchhorn ( talk) 03:54, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Please stop making arbitrary edits on the Rashid Khalidi page. There is an ongoing discussion that you appear to be ignoring possibly because yours is not the majority opinion. The source, the Los Angeles Times, is a hightly reputable one. You do not seem to have a reason for your edits beyond your unsourced challenge of the intentions of the Times reporter. Thomas Babbington ( talk) 16:00, 11 April 2008 (UTC)Thomas Babbington
Thanks for defending him. Some of the users involved in the discussion are quite the silencers and don't like anyone who causes trouble by dissenting. Thanks for your honest unbiased opinion. I think you're the only one not involved at the expelled page that is commenting on NCdave. Therefore, you are the only unbiased opinion, and your opinion is that he is innocent. Thank! Saksjn ( talk) 19:18, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
I would like to invite you to consider taking part in the AGF Challenge which has been proposed for use in the RfA process [34] by User: Kim Bruning. You can answer in multiple choice format, or using essay answers, or anonymously. You can of course skip any parts of the Challenge you find objectionable or inadvisable.-- Filll ( talk) 14:16, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Most people as I can tell, take my talking-point in the Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed user-discussion page as some kind of nonsense about order in a wikipedia article. I'm not asking to delete anything! I'm saying everything has its place and category, and we need to bring the article up to speed on that. Paladin Hammer ( talk) 00:29, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
Please do not delete content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Talk: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, without explaining the valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive, and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. Thank you. Nightscream ( talk) 00:54, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
Looking through the History, I see that the edit in question was by Shoemaker's Holiday, who merely archived the discussion by moving that section to an archive (though I don't think he should've done so until after it died down). I apologize for the mixup. Nightscream ( talk) 03:57, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. Amoruso ( talk) 02:40, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
I really don't follow most of what you said on my talk page. But regarding
The statement is attributed - there's a supporting reference.
When you change a simple factual statement into "NCSE says X", you completely change the meaning of the statement. It presents a simple fact as an opinion. That is highly misleading. Guettarda ( talk) 03:07, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Raul warned me for "disruptive editing." Could you help defend me on this one? See my talk page. Thanks! Saksjn ( talk) 19:40, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, it was a reply to filll, but applies to those who disagree with it being called "Big Science" or more appropriately the scientific establishment. Yeah, I read your comment over, and yes I'd say we're in agreement. RC-0722 247.5/ 1 03:20, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm taking a break now, at least from ID-related stuff for at least a week or so. I simply fear if I continue on the Expelled page I might lose my temper and I don't think that would help anyone. I have managed to remain calm and happy for a long time now, but I need to refill my mana. Take care, Merzul ( talk) 01:46, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Today we have much more polite replies on the talk page. While yesterday I was annoyed at the arrogant tone in some post, today it is NCdave's own interpretations of Darwin that I find annoying. It seems I can never be pleased :), so I'm now finally leaving for a Wikibreak. Best wishes, Merzul ( talk) 12:10, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
So much for my Wikibreak, but I like working with you, we reach consensus quite easily. ;) But I am amazed at the level of stubbornness on that article. That someone actually reverted you to a grammatically messed up version ... WTF? Anyway, I think I'm signing off for tonight. We'll see what lectures about policy they have for me tomorrow. Merzul ( talk) 22:49, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/C68-FM-SV/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/C68-FM-SV/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, John Vandenberg ( chat) 11:48, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Per the arb vote here the RFAR on User:JzG is now merged with this case and he is a named party. Also see my case disposition notes there. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:32, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
Just a friendly note on Tom Foreman. I replaced the {{primarysources}} tag you removed with the comment "cnn bio should be fine". Since he works for CNN, it's not an independent source. I do agree with removing the {{notability}} tag (and I have no idea why I didn't remove it when I de-prodded the article). -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 22:54, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Some time ago, you participated in a deletion discussion concerning Allegations of American apartheid. I thought you might like to know that the parent article, Allegations of apartheid, was recently nominated for deletion. Given that many of the issues that have been raised are essentially the same as those on the article on which you commented earlier, you may have a view on whether Allegations of apartheid should be kept or deleted. If you wish to contribute to the discussion, please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Allegations of apartheid (fifth nomination). -- ChrisO ( talk) 18:23, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Lar. Thatcher 14:21, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
A request for arbitration which you commented on has been opened, and is located here. Any evidence you wish to provide should be emailed directly to any sitting Arbitrator for circulation among the rest of the committee. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Ryan Postlethwaite 14:34, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, I was away. I've replied on her talk page. Khoi khoi 21:39, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar | ||
Thank you for your work at Naked short selling and related articles! Regards, Huldra ( talk) 00:47, 1 October 2008 (UTC) |
Hi, and thanks for clearing up some of the issues, but the last paragraph of the lead to the NSS article is very badly sourced. It is one thing for these statements to be true and valid, but when a paragraph ends with a citation, it is expected that the paragraph is based on those sources, not on what is written all over the place. You can respond here, or on the article talk page. Thanks, Vesal ( talk) 19:32, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
A quick clarifying point re: your comments... The diffs you cited to were in regards to open proxies, i.e. where anyone can hop on and obscure their identity, even from checkusers. Open proxies are forbidden by policy, etc., etc. In contrast, SlimVirgin's "evidence" definitely mentioned using a closed proxy where I assume access was restricted - possibly even restricted just to SlimVirgin. I won't comment on how appropriate that may be, but I wanted to make you aware of the discrepancy since your comments were stricken and you were unlikely to get a response. — Wknight94 ( talk) 17:59, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
I hope you don't mind. [35] I think your proposal has a lot of merit, and deserves discussion unmuddled by the current edit dispute. Cool Hand Luke 04:38, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Arbitration enforcement#Request for a special restriction at Naked short selling. Cool Hand Luke 03:05, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
A request for mediation has been filed with the Mediation Committee that lists you as a party. The Mediation Committee requires that all parties listed in a mediation must be notified of the mediation. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Rashid Khalidi, and indicate whether you agree or disagree to mediation. If you are unfamiliar with mediation on Wikipedia, please refer to Wikipedia:Mediation. Please note there is a seven-day time limit on all parties responding to the request with their agreement or disagreement to mediation. Thanks, Avi ( talk) 21:34, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
Heyo Mackan79,
I've noticed a mention that you were unclear to the use of the
unsigned template. What needs to be written is {{unsigned|user name}}. You can also use {{Unsigned|user name or IP|time, date}} copy pasting the time and date from the history log.
Cheers,
Jaakobou
Chalk Talk 12:47, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Care to comment on the addition of Joseph Massad's commentary in the Martin Kramer article? Why do I not see the same fervor from Wikidemon and others removing that paragraph. Can you explain why? -- Avi ( talk) 22:05, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for making 2008 an interesting and enlightening year for me; at some point, our paths have crossed and I've found your comments amusing, helpful or thought-provoking—I'll let you guess which!
Apologies, that was unintentional. Lapsed Pacifist ( talk) 10:37, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
Please note that I have made a report to WP:AN/I regarding the edit warring / WP:BLP issue concerning Rashid Khalidi, here: WP:AN/I#Historicist edit warring on BLP violations. This is a courtesy notice only because you seem to have been involved in some edits or discussion on the subject recently. Thanks, Wikidemon ( talk) 22:49, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
You are going to have to trim your evidence section. Your original submission was already at 1033 words. The additional post on the talk page had the same effect as expanding your evidence section (I may be messing which event was first, but the substance of the problem is the same). If you need help trimming it, I can work with you on that.-- Tznkai ( talk) 18:00, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
Do you need help trimming your evidence section?-- Tznkai ( talk) 19:53, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Hi Mackan79! I already explained the reasoning for my post, and will repeat it here:
If a part of the explanation was not clear, please tell me. Also, please correct your post, as I never said that it was a personal attack, but a borderline-personal attack (two different things). Thanks, Ynhockey ( Talk) 19:03, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
if possible, with an Oliver Wendell Holmes jr quote on Living Constitution. It would be better if we knew where he wrote it, in a decision or whatever. Thanks., Rich Peterson 75.45.98.190 ( talk) 19:47, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I am not sure what you mean about involvement with editors - it has been a very long time since I have worked on anything with Slim Virgin, maybe years, although I wrote something in her defense when she was up before ArbCom. I cannot see ho that disqualifies me from acting responsibly now. Lar made a personal attack. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and i asked him what he meant. [36] He said what he meant and three other people said they consider it a personal attack. I let them know I would take appropriate action here and I did [37].
Now, Lar had ample time to take back the attack. Are you disagreeing that he made a personal attack? Slrubenstein | Talk 10:08, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
This is on Lar's user page:
Lar understands that I am acting in good faith - shouldn't you? By the way it gos without saying that if Lar retracts the attack the issue is settled, as far as I am concernes. Slrubenstein | Talk 10:13, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
Thanks to you, for getting me to reflect on my position. I wish someone could get Lar to reflect on his.
Slrubenstein |
Talk 11:04, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
It seems that there is nothing I will be able to do to persuade you, but I really am not duped by SV, nor acting on her behalf. When I wrote my defense of SV during the ArbCom thing, I was sincere and expressed what I thought. Not only was that some time ago - I can't even rememer how far back - but this is simply nother issue. If you go back to my posts to the listserve, back when I was on it (2001-2005) you will see that, whenever the issue came up, I spokeout clearly against the creation of any govening structure, central authority, or hierarchy at Wikipedia. I wrote the first draft of two essays ( Wikipedia:Advice for new administrators and Wikipedia:The role of policies in collaborative anarchy) in which I tried to summarize my views. I believe I have expressed consistent views on Wikipedia governance since i have been here. And I believe every endorsement or rejection of any statement, as well as my own statement, at the current RfC is consistent ith these views I have held since I started editing. My point is this: the views I have expressed have nothing to do with Slim Virgin. They have nothing to do with any views I have had about SV in the past, and they have nothing to do with any history between SV and ArbCom or specific members of ArbCom. So I honestly see nothing that I have to "move past."
Ditto my relationship with Lar. As far as I know, we have no relationship. I see no impediment to collaborating with him on an articl or perhaps even a policy. I have had problems with many people at Wikipedia - there was a time (quite a while back, maybe a couple of years) where I collaborated closely with a user named Wobble - but if you had the time to look at our first interactions, we had a very antagonistic relationship and regularly reverted on another. We got past it. I think I have been blocked myself three times at Wikipedia, maybe four ...did you know SV was one of the people who blocked me? You may or may not know that Elonka and I also were in serious conflict a couple of years ago. later, she offered to help me manage the arhiving of my talk. As far as I know, she and I have a corial relationship, although we have not had any cause to ork together on the same article. My point is, we move past things all the time here.
Or are you suggesting that when Lar accused me of being the pawn of a demagogue, it is because he has not gotten over the statement I wrote defending SV when she was being investigated by ArbCom? Is that what you meant, that Lar hasn't been able to put that behind him? I honestly hadn't thought of that. I do not know what to say: I do not expect that of a bureaucrat and steward. If you really think that Lar holds that against me and that it motivated he recent personal attack against me, I beg you to try to mentor him ... if he cannot get past it, maybe he should resign as administrator etc.
But for me it is ancient history and I am not going to assume that he attacked me now for something I wrote over a year (?) ago. All I know is, he attacked me and my ability to act in good faith yesterday. And he needs to reflect on what he wrote, and its implications, and why it is unacceptable (as long as Wikipedia has NPA and AGF policies) and he should retract it. Slrubenstein | Talk 12:00, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
Can you help me make this work: Wikipedia:Areas for Reform Slrubenstein | Talk 14:33, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for making my head spin. Seriously though, that comment was a little snippy, and this particular editor has been adding mostly-unsourced info to his own biography for years. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ( Many otters • One bat • One hammer) 17:48, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia_talk:Sock_puppetry#Interview_for_Signpost. - Dank ( push to talk) 17:14, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
I'll have another response or two later, as I think through your comment, but here's an initial one: From the very beginning (see User talk:Noroton) I recognized that a CU could have a concern. My focus has always been on how I was treated once the CU had that concern. If you see my most recent comments at RFAR (and maybe you have -- I'm rushed right now and haven't checked; see my "@SlimVirgin" response), you'll see how I think the CU should have reacted. It simply didn't have to be with a block, a day of silence and an odd comment at ANI. And someone has to review Lar's communication with Versageek -- what was said, how, and when.
Policies aren't poems to be given alternate, equally valid, vague, impressionistic interpretations. They need to be clear enough for an editor to follow without an enormous amount of intepretive work, and if we're going to leave CU work for very trusted admins, they damn well can be expected to act with a minimal amount of tact. Without assuming bad faith on the part of either Lar or Versageek -- and by this point, who would blame me if I did? -- why don't you consider two possibilities: first, that one or both editors acted out of bad motives to try to influence the DRV by using CU and admin powers to make me look bad in ways far beyond any technical violations I'd committed; second, that one or both editors used the various tools, either in an acceptable way or a ham-handed way. I think those scenarios are all possible, but given that harm was done to me and given that the first scenario is at least as likely as the second, Arbcom should look into it. Given Lar's and Versageek's lack of response on their talk pages, my suspicions are heightened. Consider also the idea that I was acting malevolently vs. in good faith. There is no proof for the first, but plenty of proof for the second. I used the alternate accounts for a damn year and did no harm, but suddenly I meant to do harm here? It is so obvious, and could be figured out so easily that I don't think it falls within admin discretion.
And notice something else: You've got two CUs on one side and one editor on the other. If we're having trouble figuring out just what WP:SOCK permits and doesn't permit, which is given the benefit of the doubt -- the editor or the checkusers who need to know that policy inside and out in order to deal with socks? J.delanoy, a CU, will block if an editor makes a mistake, then demands of me that I prove Versageek's bad faith -- yet he would require no determination of bad faith on my part before he thinks I should be blocked. It's a double standard, and a typical one. New admins are sometimes told they can expect to make mistakes with the tools. Why not expect editors to make mistakes when policy is not always easy to decipher? What exactly was the justification for not assuming good faith here?
-- JohnWBarber ( talk) 13:52, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
File:Warren Court 1953.jpg is now available on Wikimedia Commons as Commons:File:Warren Court 1953.jpg. This is a repository of free media that can be used on all Wikimedia wikis. The image will be deleted from Wikipedia, but this doesn't mean it can't be used anymore. You can embed an image uploaded to Commons like you would an image uploaded to Wikipedia, in this case: [[File:Warren Court 1953.jpg]]. Note that this is an automated message to inform you about the move. This bot did not copy the image itself. -- Erwin85Bot ( talk) 12:22, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
A simple query such as this one would have shown that your premise is wrong, and thus your concern misplaced. Mr. Hicks The III ( talk) 22:24, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
I've been a little busy lately, but appreciate you dropping me a note about the Jonathan Cook AfD. Seems to have gotten enough community attention anyway (thankfully). I wish that had been the case for a recent AfD I started on the Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice (Gaza Strip) which only garnered a handful of votes, few of which offered more sources or even made reference to policy. It was closed by a non-admin while I was away, who did not seem to bother to read the comments or the questions/rebuttals I raised. I'd be happy to admit I was wrong, if more sources could be provided. Do you have any info to add there that might help establish notability? If nothing comes up soon, I may relist it since I'm still of the opinion that its a personal theory of two journalists who write for an Israeli newspaper and not much more. Anyway, thanks again and happy editing. Tiamut talk 10:36, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
<br. /> --NBahn ( talk) 09:57, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
<br. /> --NBahn ( talk) 10:53, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Any thoughts on this? Think it would stand a chance? nableezy - 04:41, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar | ||
For detective work that took considerable time and effort leading to the break up of a sock nest that had POV-pushed across mutliple articles and drained the energies of a number of good faith editors, some of whom were rendered Wiki casualties. Thank you Mackan79. I just wish we caught them before G-Dett, Nickhh, Nishidani, MeteorMaker and Pedrito had to go down with them in the Arbcomm case. Oh well. At least future editors may be spared? Here's hoping. Tiamut talk 14:09, 4 December 2009 (UTC) |
Congratulations on your good work at the AfD. As I expect you gathered from my comments, while I didn't think there was sufficient coverage in RSs evidenced at the time the AfD started, it was largely your good work on finding RS coverage that changed my vote from delete to keep. Excellent work on your part. Thanks.-- Epeefleche ( talk) 04:07, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Fair point on the sock. Tx for clarifying that. Do you think that I need to say anything agreeing with you at the AE, as to that point? Or perhaps I should cross out that fn? Or just let it stand?
I'm not sure I follow your other points. I imagine that ArbCom's clarification clarified the application of the ban(s) to the AfD. But it didn't (as it was the wrong forum for that) speak to the issue of what sanctions should be applies for willful breach of the ban(s). Though the arbitrators did signal what type of sanctions would be appropriate, and also signaled that (as at least one of the editors admitted) the fact that the afd was within the scope of the ban was self-evident.-- Epeefleche ( talk) 22:40, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
still owe you a response. in the meantime, this afd may interest you ... [38].-- Epeefleche ( talk) 15:46, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for your support at the ANI page. Drolz 09 22:59, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
I don't think filing an ArbCom case on Jehochman's actions is going to be useful without earlier steps (RfC, etcetera), it's not going to be so urgent that ArbCom will take it without other steps having been tried first. SirFozzie ( talk) 23:52, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for your support of Drolz. I was stunned by the block, although RL is interfering, so it is possible I haven't properly followed all if the unfolding events. My view is that tensions were quite high a week or so ago, but had calmed down considerably, with Drolz attempting to contribute positively through talk comments. The block seemed to appear out of the blue. While I'm not convinced that an Arb case is timely, I hope that even if turned down, the notice will help ensure that the broader issues get more attention.-- SPhilbrick T 15:53, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
I was a bit surprised to see the request for ArbCom involvement. Not because there isn't a problem, but for the very reasons you articulate - it's a broad, multi-editor, multi-issue mess.
My view of ArbCom is limited, but like you, I see them as most effective when a very small number (two or three) editors are locked in battle, and it is plausible to design a specific remedy. I fear that the climate debate cuts to the shortcomings of the WP model - I hope I"m wrong, but I'm not counting on the committee coming up with a workable solution.
I thought it would make sense to identify a small issue - agree on a resolution process and then resolve it. Wouldn't accomplish much, but if we then moved on to another small issue, and another, we might whittle the problem down to a manageable remainder. Alas, even something as uncontroversial as the inclusion of an item barely discussed in the media quickly derailed. example here.
I shouldn't give up after one attempt, but it is discouraging to see minor items so difficult to tackle.-- SPhilbrick T 19:06, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
It seeem pretty clear now that Sandstein is not going to change his mind, and that a formal appeals procedure should be initiated. I had been thinking of doing this myself, but wanted to give Sandstein a chance to reconsider. I was impressed by your sensible and measured comments on Sandstein's talk page, and I think that you would be a much better person to do this, partly because I am still fuming over this outrage (so you will be more objective, which is always more persuasive), and partly because you are more familiar with this sort of task anyway. I do hope you will help.
Many thanks,
-- NSH001 ( talk) 22:18, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
I want to thank you very much for your help with my block and especially for digging in an gaining an understanding of the rather complex issues involved. I thought your comments re the COI were spot on. Thanks again. JPatterson ( talk) 22:20, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
See [39] which is one of the mildest posts that editor has ever made about me <g>. That complaints are not filed does not mean innocence on his part, I would suggest! Collect ( talk) 13:56, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
GoRight has asked a question for you. Minima c94 ( talk) 22:08, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
[40] -- mark nutley ( talk) 22:23, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
Where is the statement regarding the article's claims disputed by the author, the paper and - more importantly - others? You wrote on the talk page that the paper's culture editor disputed it, but people within the paper are obviously not the best sources for this issue, since (a) the paper is not a high-quality source, (b) it is not independent regarding this issue, and (c) it could be motivated by damage control. If you show me a few independent reliable sources saying so, I'll accept your position. Jalapenos do exist ( talk) 02:18, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
I think that's a fantastic idea and sorely overdue. I was also quite impressed with your posting at ANI. I'm probably not as eloquent, but I have my moments, and would like to know if/when you do begin an essay on this so I can help. Equazcion (talk) 23:22, 16 Feb 2010 (UTC)
It seems I may have misread your comment, Mack. I originally thought you were saying that being either pro or anti- anything should not be favored, but you just meant with regard to religion, it seems, and not topics where one POV has a vast majority support, like pedophilia and ethnicity. My personal view is actually that being pro- or anti- anything at all should never be favored, and the quality rather than the motive of the edits should be judged in nearly all cases regardless of the topic. The essay I would write might be very different from one you'd support, just FYI. Let me know if I'm totally misinterpreting though. Equazcion (talk) 02:28, 17 Feb 2010 (UTC)
Mackan79: Thanks for the suggestions you left on my Talk page. I'm rather new to WP (compared to most others) and the processes are a bit puzzling sometimes :-) I agree that we all need to strive to work together to move forward in controversial areas. Before making any edit in a controversial area, I ask myself: "What is best for the reader of this encyclopedia?" ... I find that gives good direction. I also agree that it is best to make generic, non-controversial improvements, rather than focusing on isolated, controversial areas. The biggest beef I have with WP is that many decisions seem to be made by majority vote, which typically produces a skewed outcome, since the editors in a given article tend to mostly be from one side. A good definition of "consensus" is "An outcome that the parties may not like, but they can live with". But many decisions in controversial topics are made hastily, without going thru the work to try to reach that middle ground. Too many decisions are black or white, when we should be striving for grey. Right now I'm trying to improve Criticism of Judaism which is a horrible article, compared to sister articles like Criticism of Islam or Criticism of Christianity, but what do you do when there are 4 or 5 editors that say "no" to every suggestion? Even benign suggestions, like improving section titles, or re-grouping sections. I don't like resorting to RfC or AN or whatever (I've never done one before) because it seems so childish, like running to mommy. Maybe I'll give it a try for that article. Anyway, thanks for the input, and good luck with the "controverial topic" essay. (FYI, there is an essay http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Religion that is somewhat relevant, but Im sure you've seen it already). Regards, -- Noleander ( talk) 12:32, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
...yes, [41] is definitely an improvement. -- Stephan Schulz ( talk) 09:28, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
with your edit at Climate change denial. Please address this. [42] If someone like you were more involved in that article, I think it would be helpful, because I think you're pretty level-headed, and whether or not I agree or disagree with you on something, that's something we could always use more of (particularly in that article). And if you're going to get involved with the article, please review the AfD. Sorry it's long, but it identifies a lot of the problems with the article, and I expect to be detailing more and more of them at both the AfD and the talk page. -- JohnWBarber ( talk) 23:26, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
Thank you for your contributions to the encyclopedia! In case you are not already aware, an article to which you have recently contributed,
Climate change denial, is on
article probation. A detailed description of the terms of article probation may be found at
Wikipedia:General sanctions/Climate change probation. Also note that the terms of some article probations extend to related articles and their associated talk pages.
The above is a
templated message. Please accept it as a routine friendly notice, not as a claim that there is any problem with your edits. Thank you. --
TS 18:32, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
Please look over Talk:Climate change denial#Removing sources. I've changed my mind and have some ideas for adding back the information, but I don't want to do it without getting some feedback. When you get a chance, please look it over. -- JohnWBarber ( talk) 02:55, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
Incorrect, Mackan, leaving notices on the talk pages of wikiprojects is the proper way to inform interested people without canvassing; please re-read WP:CANVASS. -- Avi ( talk) 16:08, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
I've requested an ArbCom review [43]. Cla68 ( talk) 01:18, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Since it's not fair to others to keep throwing statements in on my comment, I figured I'd come over and speak with you directly. Yes, I am quite familiar with AE, having worked there for many months both prior and after my break from here. And yes, I've run into heated discussions on that page, where an administrator was busy dismantling the thing I thought had kept a topic area under control, because he couldn't point to a specific authorization from the Committee about a general topic restriction. So yes, I do know the area quite well.
I just think that this could easily be solved with a discussion at AN/ANI.. if you have proof that he's affecting decisions. However, it seems to me like making an arbitration request to decide what section he should post in is.. somewhat similar to using sticks of dynamite to kill flies. SirFozzie ( talk) 08:02, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Hi Jehochman, I noticed that you collapsed the section on the canvassing issue (oddly called a WP:MEAT violation by one editor). I'd like to ask, however, about the first diff that you said you found unpersuasive regarding Ratel's acknowledgment to have canvassed for the request. You may have seen it was first pointed out first by Cla68 that Ratel did not notify all of the active editors on the page. Ratel said, "However, yes, I do suspect an element of bad faith in editors trying to insert FUD into climate-related article though, so I did not inform them." [44] Does this not suggest to you an issue with an excessively battleground mentality? It does not strike me as exactly subtle. I would ask you other questions here, but it seems more appropriate to comment over there. Mackan79 ( talk) 20:49, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Although we've disagreed on a number of things, I want to repeat that I have a lot of respect for you, and that respect has gone up even higher in the past week or so. At this point, I don't see any further value in editing in the WP:GSCC area, although I might change my mind. You've been reasonable throughout and I get the impression (I'm avoiding looking too closely, for my own peace of mind) that your reasonableness is not being returned. Personally, I can take only so many days or weeks of that and then I either need to leave or explode (I'm not quite there yet, but my boiling point tends to sneak up on me). My little bit of advice is easy to give and hard to follow: Whatever you do, don't let anyone goad you into anything rash. Nothing added or removed or reorganized in any of these articles is worth a rash action on your part. I think you retain a lot of credibility with a lot of editors and keeping cool will preserve it for when credibility is (eventually, one day) going to be very useful in this mess. -- JohnWBarber ( talk) 20:16, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
You are involved in a recently-filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests#Global warming and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—
Thanks, Ryan PostlethwaiteSee the mess I've created or let's have banter 13:16, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
An Arbitration request in which you are involved has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Climate change/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Climate change/Workshop.
Additionally, please note that for this case specific procedural guidelines have been stipulated; if you have any questions please ask. The full outline is listed on the Evidence and Workshop pages, but please adhere to the basics:
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, ~ Amory ( u • t • c) 00:36, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
I noted your recent edit which significantly altered the opening presentation of the article. There is already a discussion well underway in the talk section related to reaching some consensus in that regard. I am going to restore the lede which you edited and which has been used as a starting point for discussion. If you have some opinion to offer in that regard, I invite you to contribute to the talk discussion so we can mitigate the potential for edit-warring the lede and try to reach some consensus. Thanks JakeInJoisey ( talk) 22:18, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
I combined your section into the ongoing discussion about the lede [45] and I reverted a number of edits on the article page. Since the lead is the subject of discussion, we'll need that before changing it. I'm pretty upset with Nsaa's edits, but I trust that you changed the lead because you didn't realize the discussion was ongoing. If I've done something wrong on the talk page, feel free to restart your section, I won't revert. I'm more than happy to discuss any ideas you have for the article. -- JohnWBarber ( talk) 00:37, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
And I repeat, in response to your "And yet none of the nonpartisan, third-party sources discuss this even so far as to address whether the joke has any basis in reality or is purely a fabrication":
The article in question,
The Gore Effect, quotes CNN meteorologist
Rob Marciano but does not include his description of the "Gore Effect" as a joke among weathermen.
Here it is:
Also, please see my input at the bottom of this page. Regards, Yopienso ( talk) 01:43, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
I have reverted your edit to the introductory. Please seek a consensus as to your suggested text within talk. Please be reminded as well, no support for the premise that the satirical "Gore Effect", as approved by the AfD, and "other uses" are the same subject was offered in the dispute resolution section. Your suggested edit would ignore that consensus. JakeInJoisey ( talk) 05:50, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
Your patience is amazing! Active Banana ( bananaphone 19:51, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
Apart from what's already been discussed (including, of course, the issue of reverts) what could the arbcomm have done (apart from they already did) to help with the 'Gore effect' article? The process there, IMO, has been especially dysfunctional, but I can't figure out what could be done to better it other than an endorsement of WP:SYNTH and maybe the comment Carcharoth made at one point to consider articles "as a whole". Guettarda ( talk) 21:23, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
I draw your attention to [46] William M. Connolley ( talk) 17:50, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
... I thought that this was a particularly insightful comment. MastCell Talk 18:44, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
RD has now collapsed the section, so discussion there is, I suppose, closed. But I wanted to reply to your reply to: anyway. If you're bored, we can stop.
I asked for examples of NPOV stuff, and failing to discuss. However, you sidestepped the NPOV and veered off to BLP. Further, you didn't give any particular diffs, but just said "I agree with some of these". So, for example, [48] is perfectly NPOV. You may quibble it on BLP grounds, but that is another matter. The material is honest, accurate and fair. So, are you really complaining about NPOV or BLP?
As for discussion: you bring up [49] and say the removing editor had asked how this was controversial to Watts. I find that baffling. Isn't someone being arrested for trying to extort money from you pretty obviously "controversial"? WVB wasn't then and isn't now an editor in good faith. But yes I agree it would have been better discussed on talk.
(adds): You said: I suppose it's possible FloNight, I, members of ArbCom are just being unfair - well yes, it is. I've answered every single one of FN's examples, and they all fall apart when examined. Are you defending *any* of them? You, I think, are being less unfair. Arbcomm are starting with a badly biased PD that was written by Rlevse, who has since thankfully departed. They are slowly reworking it into something sane (though it would have been better just to throw the whole thing out and start from something honest). That has set the tone of much of the discussion.
There is a good example of this I've just run across at User_talk:A_Quest_For_Knowledge#Joanne_Nova. (Background: Joanne Nova is a an Australian freelance science presenter, writer, professional speaker & former TV host (to quote the current state of the article). But she is also a climate "skeptic", so needs to be puffed. So, she must be a *scientist* [50]. Yes, read the edit comment - the "skeptic" types really do believe that having a BSc in science makes you a scientist. And quite possibly they know so little about it that they really believe this. I've tried to discuss this on the talk page, and you can see the total blank incomprehension there. AQFK reverts the same rubbish back in [51] with no attempt at discussion (and I don't see you complaining about the "skeptics" reverting-without-discussion) - this is re-inserting nonsense into a BLP, which is what they pretend to care deeply about, but actually don't).
Anyway, sorry, that was the background rant. What I wanted you to look at was AQFK's talk. NW attempts to discuss the same issue: is she a scientist? Cla immeadiately jumps in with an attempt to derail the discussion. AQFK refuses to discuss the issue. This is a commonplace pattern; this is why I'm reluctant to spend time on talk with these people, because they are dishonest, and simply will not talk on the subject.
Another good example of fanatical removal to remove material is The Hockey Stick Illusion - see the talk there where any attempt to trim the unbalanced "reception" section is opposed William M. Connolley ( talk) 11:15, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged revisions, underwent a two-month trial which ended on 15 August 2010. Its continued use is still being discussed by the community, you are free to participate in such discussions. Many articles still have pending changes protection applied, however, and the ability to review pending changes continues to be of use.
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You were mentioned at WP:ANI#User Terra Novus - topic ban may need revision to include other controversial areas. Dougweller ( talk) 15:18, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
Dispute Resolution – Survey Invite Hello Mackan79. I am currently conducting a study on the dispute resolution processes on the English Wikipedia, in the hope that the results will help improve these processes in the future. Whether you have used dispute resolution a little or a lot, now we need to know about your experience. The survey takes around five minutes, and the information you provide will not be shared with third parties other than to assist in analyzing the results of the survey. No personally identifiable information will be released. Please click
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You merged Kandahar detention facility with Sarposa prison. Could you please direct me to the prior discussion where this merge was discussed?
It seems like a terrible idea to me, since the Kandahar detention facility was a brand new US facility built within the Kandahar airport, where-as the Sariposa prison is an older Afghan run facility.
So I would have questioned the wisdom of this redirection, if I had participated in the discussion. I look forward to reviewing the arguments offered.
Cheers! Geo Swan ( talk) 00:59, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
Stephen Breyer, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status will be removed from the article. AIRcorn (talk) 12:56, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
Hello Mackan79. It has now been over six months since you last edited your article submission, entitled Allegations of French apartheid.
If you no longer want this submission, it will shortly be deleted. However, if you wish to keep it, simply {{db-afc}}
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this link, click "Save", and an administrator will place the undeleted submission in your user space.
Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Northamerica1000 (talk) 03:55, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
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talk) 13:59, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
Hello Mackan79! I am Jenhawk777 and I have recently done a major overhaul of the above article in an effort to focus it more on Christian thought, which reflects the title, broaden its sources, and hopefully get the tags removed and make every one happy. Oh, and I'm also working for world peace. :-) I am going through the talk page contacting anyone who demonstrated an interest in this delicious and obscure little article and am inviting them to come and take a look, give some input--even some criticism--and hopefully reach a consensus on getting those tags removed. Please take a look if you are still at all interested. Thank you! Jenhawk777 ( talk) 03:35, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
Been deleted, no problem. speedy criterion G7 covers that one, a mistakenly created page that the author requests deletion of. You can place {{ db-author}} on those too, or of course I'm happy to help. Seraphimblade Talk to me 04:01, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
But isn't it? Abortion is murder, no matter what Wikipedia says. -- 69.67.230.109 03:36, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Mackan,
I was hoping that the list could be collaborative, and created by multiple parties. There are other posters who know more about certain controversies than myself, and vice versa. CJCurrie 22:00, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Hi Mackan, I understand your points. I do think that the current 'protected' template, as I noted in the Talk page, clearly tells the readers that there is a dispute among editors, that the version is locked, and that the locking does not necessarily endorse the locked version. I find that a very reasonable top-level description of the status quo. Any interested reader can then go to the Talk page with one click and read further details there. Although I strongly believe that we must unlock the entry ASAP, we don't want to descend immediately into renewed edit wars, which will just get us back to where we are now, so it seems logical to insist on mediation. I hope you all can move that process along ASAP. Crum375 15:30, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
What do you think of incorporating the newest allegations and info, the 7 new items on the Discussion page? Kritt 06:03, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for letting me know about the article. I will read it as soon as I can -- Aminz 01:09, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Wouldn't your vote more accurately be described as rename or move?-- Urthogie 21:49, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
The compromise has nothing to do with the 3rr, which as you said is relatively inconsequential to me. It has to do with my observation on reflection that Adam and Moodley are dealing with position on Israel as an apartheid state, not all the types of accusation.-- Urthogie 20:52, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
With so many different "allegations"-related deletion votes going on, it occurred to me that you might have missed this one: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Allegations of apartheid (third nomination).
Nice work on NAS. All best, -- G-Dett 14:00, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
The article Stephen Breyer you nominated as a good article has passed , see Talk:Stephen Breyer for eventual comments about the article. Good luck in future nominations. I have left some comments as to how to further improve the article on Talk:Stephen Breyer. Please feel free to message me if you have any queries. LordHarris 01:07, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Hello,
An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Zeq-Zero0000. Please add any evidence you may wish the arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Zeq-Zero0000/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Zeq-Zero0000/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, David Mestel( Talk) 19:39, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
can we clarify what place the allegations would find in this article?-- Urthogie 22:28, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Ok. I think that the sources that list people that aren't especially notable should be turned into source lists, like a list of israeli academics, or a list of MP's, etc. Because these people are notable when taken as a group. This sound like a good way to start the talk page version?-- Urthogie 15:22, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Please take a quick glance at the edit history pages for Allegations of Saudi Arabian apartheid and Allegations of Brazilian apartheid and review the history of Hafrada (Separation) and it's older version Hafrada. Something to consider in light of the discussions surrounding Allegations of Israeli apartheid. I have tried very hard to WP:AGF, but IMO there are a couple of editors who have gone too far. Tiamut 15:48, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
I wonder if you might take a look at this Mackan. Whatever one may think of this user's edits, it seems to me he's being railroaded here.-- G-Dett 18:53, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to hear the case for why these red links shouldn't be there. Generally, red links are supposed to be on templates if applicable.-- Urthogie 16:01, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
you might want to argue your other points -- Urthogie 16:16, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
-- Ian Pitchford 19:51, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
First off, you seem to forget that we are advised to be bold. Second, if you object to certain changes, feel free to bring them up on the talk page where a discussion has already been taking place before I made any edits. Thanks VanTucky 17:40, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Hi Mackan -- the sentence which you say is at issue would seem to rule out the Vatican as well as Israel: "The opposite end of the spectrum from separation is a theocracy, in which the state is founded upon the institution of religion, and the rule of law is based on the dictates of a religious court." The law in the Vatican state with regard to civil secular matters parallels that of Italy. Under the Lateran treaty, crimes are not handled by the "dictates of a religious court" but are prosecuted by Italy in Italian secular courts. Both states are "founded upon the institution of religion" and have citizenship laws which give unique privilege to religious adherents. I'll agree that Israel should be deleted on this basis if the Vatican City is deleted on the same basis. Neither is a traditional theocracy, but both have a unique and essential tie to a religion. Mamalujo 18:59, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for your efforts to tighten up the prose on Joseph Priestley; they are, by and large, effective. I hesitate to say this, but I wonder if it is the best use of your wikipedia time to copy edit this article at this time. Much is going to have to be removed from this article and whole sections are going to be reworded since it is too long, so I am not sure that this is the moment to go over the language with a fine-toothed comb, looking for superfluous words or slightly awkward phrasings. You are welcome to do so - I just wanted to make you aware of the ongoing editing and the possibility that whole sections you have carefully corrected may be deleted or radically revised in the near future. Awadewit | talk 05:44, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Could you please review a controversy currently brewing at this page? CJCurrie 02:05, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
The Editor's Barnstar | ||
For boldly disentangling Fundamentalism and Fundamentalist Christianity. Groupthink 20:11, 18 July 2007 (UTC) |
its customary to comment on users who create accounts for the sole purpose of adding to an AFD.-- Urthogie 15:28, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Hi Mackan, can you do it? I'm not absolutely sure what you're referring to, and I'm running out the door... whereever you think it should go is fine with me.-- G-Dett 18:52, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
This is a message for all regulars at the “apartheid” AfD series. I believe there may have been a breakthrough. Please share your thoughts here. Thanks. -- Targeman 03:03, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
... for your valiant attempt to cleanup the Cult article that has suffered from bias, lack of sources and other maladies for long enough. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 00:09, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Greetings about the Template for Discrimination Project. I'm leaving a note for you and other recent editors so the back and forth editing of the Discrimination template will cease and those interested can dialog about the need to include or not include an article. Please use Template talk:Discrimination and start a new section "Include _____ ?" so that others can also help keep the discussion constructive. thank you. Benjiboi 17:08, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm truly sorry about this one : [1] ! I mixed up the links, editing in the same time the oldids on my userpage [2] to keep track of the last diff of each article i already read. Sorry again. NicDumZ ~ 14:56, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Following your recent participation in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Allegations of French apartheid, you may be interested to know that a related article, Allegations of Chinese apartheid, is currently being discussed on AfD. Comments can be left at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Allegations of Chinese apartheid. -- ChrisO 15:57, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
Hello,
An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Allegations of apartheid. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Allegations of apartheid/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Allegations of apartheid/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Newyorkbrad 18:11, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
As you've edited the tempate itself I'm wondering what your thoughts are on the TFD discussion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion#Template:Allegations_of_apartheid? Lothar of the Hill People 21:58, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Hey, sorry I did not respond earlier. Been very busy in RL, and wrapped up in the AoIa Rfar thing. I'd like to continue this discussion with you, time permitting, but would prefer to do it on-wiki, unless you have thoughts that are really so private you don't want them shared, which I guess I can understand. For my part, I think I can speak about this issue perhaps more generally, as my earlier approach seems to have annoyed you (though I assure you that was not at all what I intended). IronDuke 04:22, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Please see Talk:Allegations_of_apartheid#Propose_move_to_.22Apartheid_analogies.22. Lothar of the Hill People 21:10, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi I see you reverted the last edit on Discrimination against atheists where you removed the word "other". You cited the word "other" being in violation of NPOV policies and I just wanted to know your rationale for that. The article originally had the word "other" in it, which was subsequently removed, and I changed that back. Thank you. Obac88667 22:56, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
I am conducting reviews of Law articles listed as Good as a part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. A week ago I put Stephen Breyer article on hold, but have not received any answer. I don't realy want to delist this article, so could you address those issues? (see Talk:Stephen Breyer#GA Sweeps (on hold)) Ruslik 10:34, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Regarding your evidence, I blocked WB because he posted to Gary Weiss that Weiss was editing as MM on Wikipedia, plus some other potentially defamatory material that was only partly sourced. The edit was deleted, which is why you can't find it. I blocked the account, told him I would unblock if he would assure me he wouldn't post it again, to which he responded by posting it again. Therefore, the block stood. The block had nothing to do with claims about sockpuppets or vandalism. SlimVirgin (talk) (contribs) 20:16, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
The linked material is an attack on a living person, GW, unsupported by reliable sources. In addition, the linked material includes an outing attempt of a Wikipedian. Both violate BLP and must be removed by anyone, per:
Editors should remove any contentious material about living persons that is unsourced, relies upon sources that do not meet standards specified in Wikipedia:Verifiability, or is a conjectural interpretation of a source (see Wikipedia:No original research). The three-revert rule does not apply to such removals. Content may be re-inserted only if it conforms to this policy. These principles apply to biographical material about living persons found anywhere in Wikipedia, including user and talk pages. Administrators may enforce the removal of such material with page protection and blocks, even if they have been editing the article themselves. Editors who re-insert the material may be warned and blocked. See the blocking policy and Wikipedia:Libel.
Crum375 ( talk) 18:00, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Mackan79 - I responded to you on my page. Should I also here? If so, my answer was, your point is taken and respected. I am just learning my way around here and will in the future check on such matters before posting. Best, Patrick PatrickByrne ( talk) 01:30, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
No, there is not. It's almost certainly been oversighted. — Random832 04:28, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
That link has a timestamp of 22:28, as can be seen in the url itself: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Special:Undelete
&target=User_talk:WordBomb×tamp=20060707222852&diff=prev . —
Random832 22:47, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
Following apparently libellous attacks on this article, you removed all reference to Neve Gordon's libel action against Steven Plaut. This removes the main part of the article. I have restored my edit from this morning, which removed the libels and distortions inserted by apparent sockpuppets of User:Truthprofessor, and relied on an objective NPOV report in The Chronicle of Higher Education, rtaher than on the smears and lies of FrontPage Magazine. I hope you will agree that this is better than leaving the article almost empty, and without reference to this important issue. It is likely that Truthprofessor will try again to repeat his libels of Gordon in this article, so best keep a watch on it! Thanks RolandR ( talk) 17:37, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
George, the lack of thought here is somewhat striking. I can only assume you think I was referencing an email that WordBomb sent you in my earlier comment. If so, please look for an email I sent you on December 7, 2007 which began:
If the issue is something else, please let me know. Mackan79 ( talk) 05:56, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Again - do I have your permission to post the email? Your comment I diff'ed from earlier tonight matches Bagley emails to me, and not your email to me from December. I am happy to put the email in evidence on ANI, or you can here and I'll confirm if it's what I received. Georgewilliamherbert ( talk) 06:21, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
The relevant portion of my email follows:
I didn't receive a response. Since then I've criticized GWH's comments on Bagley in what I consider strong terms at least twice on the evidence page. Please do not post my email. Mackan79 ( talk) 06:22, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Unblocked per [4] Viridae Talk 06:37, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks Viridae. To clarify, I'm absolutely not Bagley, and it is absurd. The history of my involvement in this dispute is offered on the evidence page, including specifically why I am concerned about some of the rhetoric that has been leveled at Bagley. This is a mistake based on an email that GWH apparently forgot that I sent him, or did not see. That's fine; the fact that he would block me without comment is less so, but perhaps can be discussed politely, hopefully beginning with GWH recognizing an obvious mistake. Mackan79 ( talk) 06:39, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
I hope you're not as angry as I was when I was first indef. blocked out of the blue - but regardless, I wanted to offer a note of support, and I hope it's sorted out very quickly. You should never have been blocked. Privatemusings ( talk) 06:35, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Same here, Mackan. Don't let this foolish move by someone sour you on this place. SirFozzie ( talk) 06:47, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Hope you at least get a laugh out of this permanent typo on your record. :) Lawrence § t/ e 06:46, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks all very much for the comments. I'm hoping to hear further about whatever people are looking at. I find it rather surprising that someone would block based on something that could so easily be checked and verified (whether or not I sent an email), but perhaps my thoughts aren't impartial. I'm hoping I'll hear further if there is anything more happening on this. Mackan79 ( talk) 07:36, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Given the absoloute proof provided that you are not a sockpuppet, I did a bit of IAR and noted it in your block log with a one second block. Not a practice I usually encourage, but allegations of sockpuppetry are quite a stain and you are quite clearly innocent of them. Hope you feel better in the morning, the community is clearly on your side. Viridae Talk 10:54, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks again for the further comments from everyone. I won't have time to look at this again until a bit later in the day. I am interested, if slightly dubious, in any coming explanation for having blocked me as a sock of a very controversial user, apparently after a negative checkuser result, as a heavily invovled editor, and without thinking to raise the issue first. I won't catalogue the various other problems here to see if maybe GWH recognizes them himself, although I will suggest it might have helped to have looked and seen that I started editing before WordBomb registered (and as any CU should be able to verify even then from a static IP very far from Utah). So be it, I'll have to see what GWH says. Mackan79 ( talk) 14:38, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
I've been off Wikipedia since yesterday and only now became aware of GWH's inane block. If I'd been on when it happened I'd have insisted I be blocked as well. You may be too peeved at the moment to be thinking about silver linings, but...this total breakdown of common sense may bring needed attention to unaddressed issues in the Weiss-Bagley affair, including the problems of systemic bias and Wordbomb hysteria among incompetent admins.-- G-Dett ( talk) 16:42, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
I've gotten assurances from arbcom members and checkusers that they have investigated this and are fully unambiguously certain that you aren't Bagley. They can't show me the detailed evidence, as I am not a checkuser, but they have described the type and extent of checks, and based on those descriptions I believe their conclusions.
I want to apologize to you for having misinterpreted the situation last night. I don't know for sure the degree to which it was your presumably inadvertently and unawarely using some language Bagley did elsewhere, or my oversensitivity in this case. But I believe I was in error, and I owe you an apology for the block and fuss. I'm sorry, I goofed. I would note this as a mistake and record the apology in your block log if I could do so conveniently.
As I stated last night, I really don't want to affect anyone's participation in the MM debates and didn't intend that effect from the block. Had I not concluded mistakenly that you were Judd, I would have never bothered you about any of your actions or discussion. To the extent that this all interfered in that legitimate debate, I apologize again.
I was off in meetings all morning and I'm just finished up with email - I have no idea what else has been discussed where regarding this, in terms of catching up from last night, but I felt that it was most appropriate to come directly here and apologize to you first, and follow up elsewhere later. I will note my mistake and an apology on my talk page and on ANI as well.
I would like to additionally thank you for remaining civil and calm through the stress that my mistake dropped on you. Georgewilliamherbert ( talk) 22:59, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Hi Mackan, thanks for fixing my comment on George's talk page - obviously I did mean you and not MM. It's a pity that "Mackan" and "Mantan" are so similar. Perhaps we could deal with that by calling you "the Mack" and Mantan "the Man" since those are a bit more distinct and can both be considered complementary nicknames. :) Anyhow, thanks for the correction!-- Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 17:37, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
The Special Barnstar | ||
For dealing with unfair treatment in a graceful, dignified manner. *Dan T.* ( talk) 22:54, 14 March 2008 (UTC) |
I notice that you appear to be using Wikipedia to engage in baseless and rather wild attacks on SlimVirgin. Please stop. [6] For genuine and well founded concerns about serious misconduct, please follow the dispute resolution procedure and avoid making personal attacks. -- Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The 15:14, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
I decided to put their edits in the same spreadsheet I've used previously. Going back to September 18, 2006 (SlimVirgin's last 25,000 edits, and the last 9120 or so for Crum375), they have 385 edit collisions—that is, they edited during the same minute 385 times. I've also made these graphs that suggest that Crum375 lives on more regular hours, while SlimVirgin definitely does not.
Of course, Tony would tell you that these methods are untested so mean nothing. I just thought you should keep them in mind. If you still think SlimVirgin might have access to the Crum375 account, perhaps you could look at the edits that Crum375 made in the early morning when the account usually does not. I, at least, would demand a smoking gun, because I'm not seeing it here.
See also:
Cool Hand Luke 16:42, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
It doesn't matter if they're two different people or not (and, for that matter, no-one, not even WordBomb, thinks they are the same person as far as I know) - but countless incidents of him showing up to support her on pages that he's never had a single edit before is a pattern of disruptive meatpuppetry (and if he were showing up on the same pages at the same times to _oppose_ her, he'd have been banned long ago for wikistalking) — Random832 23:01, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
I note that in the past four months you've made significant edits to the following articles:
SlimVirgin doesn't seem to have any involvement in those articles. The latest attack on SlimVirgin seems to have been provoked by her decision to comment yesterday on your request for an inappropriate block to be removed from your log. In the discussion she mentioned an incident from last year in which several people had asked you to stop behavior that had the appearance of wikistalking towards her. I also note that, perhaps thinking it better to avoid picking at ancient wounds, she removed it a little over half an hour later. Her edit summary was "removing parts of my previous post that were too personal and had no bearing on this issue".
Your own comment came a few minutes after that, and you promptly removed it when you realised that she had removed her own.
This looks to me like a case of bad blood between you and SlimVirgin. I'll ask you both to continue trying to avoid one another, and I really would like to see you drop these inappropriate and poorly founded investigations into a possible connection between two editors who are both in good standing and, even you seem to admit, not socks of one another. -- Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The 18:23, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
I can appreciate your efforts Tony, particularly on what information you may have, but I don't think this is an effective resolution. As I said, one of the problems here has been the two of them going from one article to another, revert warring, and then making accusations toward any others who arrive. This has recently been discussed on AN/I, as I take you’ve seen. [7]
My problem is that after first experiencing the way SV has often operated in disputes with Crum’s assistance (though largely failing despite the fully panoply of efforts attempted), [8] I ended up looking into it further, for the reasons given on SV's talk page. [9] Upon doing so I found a number of things. One was that Crum375 had added an edit counting script to their monobook within a week of editing. Another was the fact that Crum encountered SV within three weeks, [10] [11] [12] [13] quickly editing numerous articles with SV, [14] [15] [16] from some amount of knowledge. I noticed that somehow during this Crum375 had actually added a direct URL to Daniel Brandt’s hivemind page on his bio (now deleted). When Phil Sandifer removed it, Crum then had this explanation for how they found Brandt’s page and why they made the edit, before suddenly realizing the problem with such a URL. [17] [18] And yet, before this realization, Crum had left these two comments on SV and Flonight’s talk pages. I found that apparently Crum's first substantive edit to policy was on June 25 of 2006 on Verifiability to revert a "non-consensual edit by Francis Shonken" to a version by SV without any further explanation, [19] after Shonken had said to SV that jumping to reverts rather than discussion on the talk page was inappropriate. [20]
There are other things, most predominantly the sheer amount of editing they do together, across many completely unrelated topics. The point became clear that at some very early point Crum started following Slim around for the predominance of their editing and with very few exceptions. In this context, I saw that some of Crum’s early edits focused specifically on the history of science, [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] including to the portal on that subject, [26] [27] [28] one that SV had said in her first edit was one of her own primary interests. [29]
What does it indicate? Without getting into everything, I found it to indicate two editors who are at least close friends, apparently from before the creation of Crum’s account. I found this problematic for other reasons. I don’t go further, because I don’t think it’s sufficiently indicated or could be proved (or possibly needs to be, per some of the arguments that you’ve recently made). However, considering the amount of controversy that has surrounded this situation, and if there isn’t a response, I think that probably it should be discussed, and as well that there are probably few people with more standing to raise it. In that regard, I hope the discussion can remain reasonable, and focused on legitimate issues. Mackan79 ( talk) 20:43, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Except you did no such thing, did you, Tony? You didn't "ask SV" to avoid Mackan79 at all, not according to her User Talk page - you just decided you were going to "warn" one side of a dispute, but thought it best to paint it as an objective "I'm going to ask you both". Please refactor, or cite. Achromatic ( talk) 04:46, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
In view of your disappointing responses and continued unwarranted personal attacks and baseless speculation about SlimVirgin, I am taking this matter to the arbitration committee. [32]. -- Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The 21:40, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
For your information, I have asked FT2 to make a change in his comment [33]. Risker ( talk) 00:21, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
I've started drafting an RfC that you might be interested in here. Please feel free if you'd like to participate in adding anything to it that you feel might be relevant. Cla68 ( talk) 02:28, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
In response to your question regarding e-mails from IPFrehley to a arbitrator, I have no record of receiving such an e-mail from IPFrehley, nor do I have any recollection of him sending me that e-mail. I've been using that Wikipedia e-mail account since 2005, and there's no need to delete e-mails in G-mail (I've never been anywhere near my limit), so if I had received it, I should have been able to find it. Jayjg (talk) 02:49, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Hi Mackan, I have always strongly supported WP's core policies and still do. They are far from perfect, but have produced a top-10 website, so they are obviously not that bad either. The case you mention where I disagreed with many editors had to do with BLP protection, which IMO trumps a local and temporary consensus. Crum375 ( talk) 20:45, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the warning. I didn't realize that WR was controversial. See my further comments at the noticeboard. JBFrenchhorn ( talk) 03:54, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Please stop making arbitrary edits on the Rashid Khalidi page. There is an ongoing discussion that you appear to be ignoring possibly because yours is not the majority opinion. The source, the Los Angeles Times, is a hightly reputable one. You do not seem to have a reason for your edits beyond your unsourced challenge of the intentions of the Times reporter. Thomas Babbington ( talk) 16:00, 11 April 2008 (UTC)Thomas Babbington
Thanks for defending him. Some of the users involved in the discussion are quite the silencers and don't like anyone who causes trouble by dissenting. Thanks for your honest unbiased opinion. I think you're the only one not involved at the expelled page that is commenting on NCdave. Therefore, you are the only unbiased opinion, and your opinion is that he is innocent. Thank! Saksjn ( talk) 19:18, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
I would like to invite you to consider taking part in the AGF Challenge which has been proposed for use in the RfA process [34] by User: Kim Bruning. You can answer in multiple choice format, or using essay answers, or anonymously. You can of course skip any parts of the Challenge you find objectionable or inadvisable.-- Filll ( talk) 14:16, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Most people as I can tell, take my talking-point in the Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed user-discussion page as some kind of nonsense about order in a wikipedia article. I'm not asking to delete anything! I'm saying everything has its place and category, and we need to bring the article up to speed on that. Paladin Hammer ( talk) 00:29, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
Please do not delete content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Talk: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, without explaining the valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive, and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. Thank you. Nightscream ( talk) 00:54, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
Looking through the History, I see that the edit in question was by Shoemaker's Holiday, who merely archived the discussion by moving that section to an archive (though I don't think he should've done so until after it died down). I apologize for the mixup. Nightscream ( talk) 03:57, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. Amoruso ( talk) 02:40, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
I really don't follow most of what you said on my talk page. But regarding
The statement is attributed - there's a supporting reference.
When you change a simple factual statement into "NCSE says X", you completely change the meaning of the statement. It presents a simple fact as an opinion. That is highly misleading. Guettarda ( talk) 03:07, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Raul warned me for "disruptive editing." Could you help defend me on this one? See my talk page. Thanks! Saksjn ( talk) 19:40, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, it was a reply to filll, but applies to those who disagree with it being called "Big Science" or more appropriately the scientific establishment. Yeah, I read your comment over, and yes I'd say we're in agreement. RC-0722 247.5/ 1 03:20, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm taking a break now, at least from ID-related stuff for at least a week or so. I simply fear if I continue on the Expelled page I might lose my temper and I don't think that would help anyone. I have managed to remain calm and happy for a long time now, but I need to refill my mana. Take care, Merzul ( talk) 01:46, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Today we have much more polite replies on the talk page. While yesterday I was annoyed at the arrogant tone in some post, today it is NCdave's own interpretations of Darwin that I find annoying. It seems I can never be pleased :), so I'm now finally leaving for a Wikibreak. Best wishes, Merzul ( talk) 12:10, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
So much for my Wikibreak, but I like working with you, we reach consensus quite easily. ;) But I am amazed at the level of stubbornness on that article. That someone actually reverted you to a grammatically messed up version ... WTF? Anyway, I think I'm signing off for tonight. We'll see what lectures about policy they have for me tomorrow. Merzul ( talk) 22:49, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/C68-FM-SV/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/C68-FM-SV/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, John Vandenberg ( chat) 11:48, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Per the arb vote here the RFAR on User:JzG is now merged with this case and he is a named party. Also see my case disposition notes there. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:32, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
Just a friendly note on Tom Foreman. I replaced the {{primarysources}} tag you removed with the comment "cnn bio should be fine". Since he works for CNN, it's not an independent source. I do agree with removing the {{notability}} tag (and I have no idea why I didn't remove it when I de-prodded the article). -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 22:54, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Some time ago, you participated in a deletion discussion concerning Allegations of American apartheid. I thought you might like to know that the parent article, Allegations of apartheid, was recently nominated for deletion. Given that many of the issues that have been raised are essentially the same as those on the article on which you commented earlier, you may have a view on whether Allegations of apartheid should be kept or deleted. If you wish to contribute to the discussion, please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Allegations of apartheid (fifth nomination). -- ChrisO ( talk) 18:23, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Lar. Thatcher 14:21, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
A request for arbitration which you commented on has been opened, and is located here. Any evidence you wish to provide should be emailed directly to any sitting Arbitrator for circulation among the rest of the committee. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Ryan Postlethwaite 14:34, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, I was away. I've replied on her talk page. Khoi khoi 21:39, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar | ||
Thank you for your work at Naked short selling and related articles! Regards, Huldra ( talk) 00:47, 1 October 2008 (UTC) |
Hi, and thanks for clearing up some of the issues, but the last paragraph of the lead to the NSS article is very badly sourced. It is one thing for these statements to be true and valid, but when a paragraph ends with a citation, it is expected that the paragraph is based on those sources, not on what is written all over the place. You can respond here, or on the article talk page. Thanks, Vesal ( talk) 19:32, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
A quick clarifying point re: your comments... The diffs you cited to were in regards to open proxies, i.e. where anyone can hop on and obscure their identity, even from checkusers. Open proxies are forbidden by policy, etc., etc. In contrast, SlimVirgin's "evidence" definitely mentioned using a closed proxy where I assume access was restricted - possibly even restricted just to SlimVirgin. I won't comment on how appropriate that may be, but I wanted to make you aware of the discrepancy since your comments were stricken and you were unlikely to get a response. — Wknight94 ( talk) 17:59, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
I hope you don't mind. [35] I think your proposal has a lot of merit, and deserves discussion unmuddled by the current edit dispute. Cool Hand Luke 04:38, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Arbitration enforcement#Request for a special restriction at Naked short selling. Cool Hand Luke 03:05, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
A request for mediation has been filed with the Mediation Committee that lists you as a party. The Mediation Committee requires that all parties listed in a mediation must be notified of the mediation. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Rashid Khalidi, and indicate whether you agree or disagree to mediation. If you are unfamiliar with mediation on Wikipedia, please refer to Wikipedia:Mediation. Please note there is a seven-day time limit on all parties responding to the request with their agreement or disagreement to mediation. Thanks, Avi ( talk) 21:34, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
Heyo Mackan79,
I've noticed a mention that you were unclear to the use of the
unsigned template. What needs to be written is {{unsigned|user name}}. You can also use {{Unsigned|user name or IP|time, date}} copy pasting the time and date from the history log.
Cheers,
Jaakobou
Chalk Talk 12:47, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Care to comment on the addition of Joseph Massad's commentary in the Martin Kramer article? Why do I not see the same fervor from Wikidemon and others removing that paragraph. Can you explain why? -- Avi ( talk) 22:05, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for making 2008 an interesting and enlightening year for me; at some point, our paths have crossed and I've found your comments amusing, helpful or thought-provoking—I'll let you guess which!
Apologies, that was unintentional. Lapsed Pacifist ( talk) 10:37, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
Please note that I have made a report to WP:AN/I regarding the edit warring / WP:BLP issue concerning Rashid Khalidi, here: WP:AN/I#Historicist edit warring on BLP violations. This is a courtesy notice only because you seem to have been involved in some edits or discussion on the subject recently. Thanks, Wikidemon ( talk) 22:49, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
You are going to have to trim your evidence section. Your original submission was already at 1033 words. The additional post on the talk page had the same effect as expanding your evidence section (I may be messing which event was first, but the substance of the problem is the same). If you need help trimming it, I can work with you on that.-- Tznkai ( talk) 18:00, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
Do you need help trimming your evidence section?-- Tznkai ( talk) 19:53, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Hi Mackan79! I already explained the reasoning for my post, and will repeat it here:
If a part of the explanation was not clear, please tell me. Also, please correct your post, as I never said that it was a personal attack, but a borderline-personal attack (two different things). Thanks, Ynhockey ( Talk) 19:03, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
if possible, with an Oliver Wendell Holmes jr quote on Living Constitution. It would be better if we knew where he wrote it, in a decision or whatever. Thanks., Rich Peterson 75.45.98.190 ( talk) 19:47, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I am not sure what you mean about involvement with editors - it has been a very long time since I have worked on anything with Slim Virgin, maybe years, although I wrote something in her defense when she was up before ArbCom. I cannot see ho that disqualifies me from acting responsibly now. Lar made a personal attack. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and i asked him what he meant. [36] He said what he meant and three other people said they consider it a personal attack. I let them know I would take appropriate action here and I did [37].
Now, Lar had ample time to take back the attack. Are you disagreeing that he made a personal attack? Slrubenstein | Talk 10:08, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
This is on Lar's user page:
Lar understands that I am acting in good faith - shouldn't you? By the way it gos without saying that if Lar retracts the attack the issue is settled, as far as I am concernes. Slrubenstein | Talk 10:13, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
Thanks to you, for getting me to reflect on my position. I wish someone could get Lar to reflect on his.
Slrubenstein |
Talk 11:04, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
It seems that there is nothing I will be able to do to persuade you, but I really am not duped by SV, nor acting on her behalf. When I wrote my defense of SV during the ArbCom thing, I was sincere and expressed what I thought. Not only was that some time ago - I can't even rememer how far back - but this is simply nother issue. If you go back to my posts to the listserve, back when I was on it (2001-2005) you will see that, whenever the issue came up, I spokeout clearly against the creation of any govening structure, central authority, or hierarchy at Wikipedia. I wrote the first draft of two essays ( Wikipedia:Advice for new administrators and Wikipedia:The role of policies in collaborative anarchy) in which I tried to summarize my views. I believe I have expressed consistent views on Wikipedia governance since i have been here. And I believe every endorsement or rejection of any statement, as well as my own statement, at the current RfC is consistent ith these views I have held since I started editing. My point is this: the views I have expressed have nothing to do with Slim Virgin. They have nothing to do with any views I have had about SV in the past, and they have nothing to do with any history between SV and ArbCom or specific members of ArbCom. So I honestly see nothing that I have to "move past."
Ditto my relationship with Lar. As far as I know, we have no relationship. I see no impediment to collaborating with him on an articl or perhaps even a policy. I have had problems with many people at Wikipedia - there was a time (quite a while back, maybe a couple of years) where I collaborated closely with a user named Wobble - but if you had the time to look at our first interactions, we had a very antagonistic relationship and regularly reverted on another. We got past it. I think I have been blocked myself three times at Wikipedia, maybe four ...did you know SV was one of the people who blocked me? You may or may not know that Elonka and I also were in serious conflict a couple of years ago. later, she offered to help me manage the arhiving of my talk. As far as I know, she and I have a corial relationship, although we have not had any cause to ork together on the same article. My point is, we move past things all the time here.
Or are you suggesting that when Lar accused me of being the pawn of a demagogue, it is because he has not gotten over the statement I wrote defending SV when she was being investigated by ArbCom? Is that what you meant, that Lar hasn't been able to put that behind him? I honestly hadn't thought of that. I do not know what to say: I do not expect that of a bureaucrat and steward. If you really think that Lar holds that against me and that it motivated he recent personal attack against me, I beg you to try to mentor him ... if he cannot get past it, maybe he should resign as administrator etc.
But for me it is ancient history and I am not going to assume that he attacked me now for something I wrote over a year (?) ago. All I know is, he attacked me and my ability to act in good faith yesterday. And he needs to reflect on what he wrote, and its implications, and why it is unacceptable (as long as Wikipedia has NPA and AGF policies) and he should retract it. Slrubenstein | Talk 12:00, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
Can you help me make this work: Wikipedia:Areas for Reform Slrubenstein | Talk 14:33, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for making my head spin. Seriously though, that comment was a little snippy, and this particular editor has been adding mostly-unsourced info to his own biography for years. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ( Many otters • One bat • One hammer) 17:48, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia_talk:Sock_puppetry#Interview_for_Signpost. - Dank ( push to talk) 17:14, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
I'll have another response or two later, as I think through your comment, but here's an initial one: From the very beginning (see User talk:Noroton) I recognized that a CU could have a concern. My focus has always been on how I was treated once the CU had that concern. If you see my most recent comments at RFAR (and maybe you have -- I'm rushed right now and haven't checked; see my "@SlimVirgin" response), you'll see how I think the CU should have reacted. It simply didn't have to be with a block, a day of silence and an odd comment at ANI. And someone has to review Lar's communication with Versageek -- what was said, how, and when.
Policies aren't poems to be given alternate, equally valid, vague, impressionistic interpretations. They need to be clear enough for an editor to follow without an enormous amount of intepretive work, and if we're going to leave CU work for very trusted admins, they damn well can be expected to act with a minimal amount of tact. Without assuming bad faith on the part of either Lar or Versageek -- and by this point, who would blame me if I did? -- why don't you consider two possibilities: first, that one or both editors acted out of bad motives to try to influence the DRV by using CU and admin powers to make me look bad in ways far beyond any technical violations I'd committed; second, that one or both editors used the various tools, either in an acceptable way or a ham-handed way. I think those scenarios are all possible, but given that harm was done to me and given that the first scenario is at least as likely as the second, Arbcom should look into it. Given Lar's and Versageek's lack of response on their talk pages, my suspicions are heightened. Consider also the idea that I was acting malevolently vs. in good faith. There is no proof for the first, but plenty of proof for the second. I used the alternate accounts for a damn year and did no harm, but suddenly I meant to do harm here? It is so obvious, and could be figured out so easily that I don't think it falls within admin discretion.
And notice something else: You've got two CUs on one side and one editor on the other. If we're having trouble figuring out just what WP:SOCK permits and doesn't permit, which is given the benefit of the doubt -- the editor or the checkusers who need to know that policy inside and out in order to deal with socks? J.delanoy, a CU, will block if an editor makes a mistake, then demands of me that I prove Versageek's bad faith -- yet he would require no determination of bad faith on my part before he thinks I should be blocked. It's a double standard, and a typical one. New admins are sometimes told they can expect to make mistakes with the tools. Why not expect editors to make mistakes when policy is not always easy to decipher? What exactly was the justification for not assuming good faith here?
-- JohnWBarber ( talk) 13:52, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
File:Warren Court 1953.jpg is now available on Wikimedia Commons as Commons:File:Warren Court 1953.jpg. This is a repository of free media that can be used on all Wikimedia wikis. The image will be deleted from Wikipedia, but this doesn't mean it can't be used anymore. You can embed an image uploaded to Commons like you would an image uploaded to Wikipedia, in this case: [[File:Warren Court 1953.jpg]]. Note that this is an automated message to inform you about the move. This bot did not copy the image itself. -- Erwin85Bot ( talk) 12:22, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
A simple query such as this one would have shown that your premise is wrong, and thus your concern misplaced. Mr. Hicks The III ( talk) 22:24, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
I've been a little busy lately, but appreciate you dropping me a note about the Jonathan Cook AfD. Seems to have gotten enough community attention anyway (thankfully). I wish that had been the case for a recent AfD I started on the Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice (Gaza Strip) which only garnered a handful of votes, few of which offered more sources or even made reference to policy. It was closed by a non-admin while I was away, who did not seem to bother to read the comments or the questions/rebuttals I raised. I'd be happy to admit I was wrong, if more sources could be provided. Do you have any info to add there that might help establish notability? If nothing comes up soon, I may relist it since I'm still of the opinion that its a personal theory of two journalists who write for an Israeli newspaper and not much more. Anyway, thanks again and happy editing. Tiamut talk 10:36, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
<br. /> --NBahn ( talk) 09:57, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
<br. /> --NBahn ( talk) 10:53, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Any thoughts on this? Think it would stand a chance? nableezy - 04:41, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar | ||
For detective work that took considerable time and effort leading to the break up of a sock nest that had POV-pushed across mutliple articles and drained the energies of a number of good faith editors, some of whom were rendered Wiki casualties. Thank you Mackan79. I just wish we caught them before G-Dett, Nickhh, Nishidani, MeteorMaker and Pedrito had to go down with them in the Arbcomm case. Oh well. At least future editors may be spared? Here's hoping. Tiamut talk 14:09, 4 December 2009 (UTC) |
Congratulations on your good work at the AfD. As I expect you gathered from my comments, while I didn't think there was sufficient coverage in RSs evidenced at the time the AfD started, it was largely your good work on finding RS coverage that changed my vote from delete to keep. Excellent work on your part. Thanks.-- Epeefleche ( talk) 04:07, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Fair point on the sock. Tx for clarifying that. Do you think that I need to say anything agreeing with you at the AE, as to that point? Or perhaps I should cross out that fn? Or just let it stand?
I'm not sure I follow your other points. I imagine that ArbCom's clarification clarified the application of the ban(s) to the AfD. But it didn't (as it was the wrong forum for that) speak to the issue of what sanctions should be applies for willful breach of the ban(s). Though the arbitrators did signal what type of sanctions would be appropriate, and also signaled that (as at least one of the editors admitted) the fact that the afd was within the scope of the ban was self-evident.-- Epeefleche ( talk) 22:40, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
still owe you a response. in the meantime, this afd may interest you ... [38].-- Epeefleche ( talk) 15:46, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for your support at the ANI page. Drolz 09 22:59, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
I don't think filing an ArbCom case on Jehochman's actions is going to be useful without earlier steps (RfC, etcetera), it's not going to be so urgent that ArbCom will take it without other steps having been tried first. SirFozzie ( talk) 23:52, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for your support of Drolz. I was stunned by the block, although RL is interfering, so it is possible I haven't properly followed all if the unfolding events. My view is that tensions were quite high a week or so ago, but had calmed down considerably, with Drolz attempting to contribute positively through talk comments. The block seemed to appear out of the blue. While I'm not convinced that an Arb case is timely, I hope that even if turned down, the notice will help ensure that the broader issues get more attention.-- SPhilbrick T 15:53, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
I was a bit surprised to see the request for ArbCom involvement. Not because there isn't a problem, but for the very reasons you articulate - it's a broad, multi-editor, multi-issue mess.
My view of ArbCom is limited, but like you, I see them as most effective when a very small number (two or three) editors are locked in battle, and it is plausible to design a specific remedy. I fear that the climate debate cuts to the shortcomings of the WP model - I hope I"m wrong, but I'm not counting on the committee coming up with a workable solution.
I thought it would make sense to identify a small issue - agree on a resolution process and then resolve it. Wouldn't accomplish much, but if we then moved on to another small issue, and another, we might whittle the problem down to a manageable remainder. Alas, even something as uncontroversial as the inclusion of an item barely discussed in the media quickly derailed. example here.
I shouldn't give up after one attempt, but it is discouraging to see minor items so difficult to tackle.-- SPhilbrick T 19:06, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
It seeem pretty clear now that Sandstein is not going to change his mind, and that a formal appeals procedure should be initiated. I had been thinking of doing this myself, but wanted to give Sandstein a chance to reconsider. I was impressed by your sensible and measured comments on Sandstein's talk page, and I think that you would be a much better person to do this, partly because I am still fuming over this outrage (so you will be more objective, which is always more persuasive), and partly because you are more familiar with this sort of task anyway. I do hope you will help.
Many thanks,
-- NSH001 ( talk) 22:18, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
I want to thank you very much for your help with my block and especially for digging in an gaining an understanding of the rather complex issues involved. I thought your comments re the COI were spot on. Thanks again. JPatterson ( talk) 22:20, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
See [39] which is one of the mildest posts that editor has ever made about me <g>. That complaints are not filed does not mean innocence on his part, I would suggest! Collect ( talk) 13:56, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
GoRight has asked a question for you. Minima c94 ( talk) 22:08, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
[40] -- mark nutley ( talk) 22:23, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
Where is the statement regarding the article's claims disputed by the author, the paper and - more importantly - others? You wrote on the talk page that the paper's culture editor disputed it, but people within the paper are obviously not the best sources for this issue, since (a) the paper is not a high-quality source, (b) it is not independent regarding this issue, and (c) it could be motivated by damage control. If you show me a few independent reliable sources saying so, I'll accept your position. Jalapenos do exist ( talk) 02:18, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
I think that's a fantastic idea and sorely overdue. I was also quite impressed with your posting at ANI. I'm probably not as eloquent, but I have my moments, and would like to know if/when you do begin an essay on this so I can help. Equazcion (talk) 23:22, 16 Feb 2010 (UTC)
It seems I may have misread your comment, Mack. I originally thought you were saying that being either pro or anti- anything should not be favored, but you just meant with regard to religion, it seems, and not topics where one POV has a vast majority support, like pedophilia and ethnicity. My personal view is actually that being pro- or anti- anything at all should never be favored, and the quality rather than the motive of the edits should be judged in nearly all cases regardless of the topic. The essay I would write might be very different from one you'd support, just FYI. Let me know if I'm totally misinterpreting though. Equazcion (talk) 02:28, 17 Feb 2010 (UTC)
Mackan79: Thanks for the suggestions you left on my Talk page. I'm rather new to WP (compared to most others) and the processes are a bit puzzling sometimes :-) I agree that we all need to strive to work together to move forward in controversial areas. Before making any edit in a controversial area, I ask myself: "What is best for the reader of this encyclopedia?" ... I find that gives good direction. I also agree that it is best to make generic, non-controversial improvements, rather than focusing on isolated, controversial areas. The biggest beef I have with WP is that many decisions seem to be made by majority vote, which typically produces a skewed outcome, since the editors in a given article tend to mostly be from one side. A good definition of "consensus" is "An outcome that the parties may not like, but they can live with". But many decisions in controversial topics are made hastily, without going thru the work to try to reach that middle ground. Too many decisions are black or white, when we should be striving for grey. Right now I'm trying to improve Criticism of Judaism which is a horrible article, compared to sister articles like Criticism of Islam or Criticism of Christianity, but what do you do when there are 4 or 5 editors that say "no" to every suggestion? Even benign suggestions, like improving section titles, or re-grouping sections. I don't like resorting to RfC or AN or whatever (I've never done one before) because it seems so childish, like running to mommy. Maybe I'll give it a try for that article. Anyway, thanks for the input, and good luck with the "controverial topic" essay. (FYI, there is an essay http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Religion that is somewhat relevant, but Im sure you've seen it already). Regards, -- Noleander ( talk) 12:32, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
...yes, [41] is definitely an improvement. -- Stephan Schulz ( talk) 09:28, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
with your edit at Climate change denial. Please address this. [42] If someone like you were more involved in that article, I think it would be helpful, because I think you're pretty level-headed, and whether or not I agree or disagree with you on something, that's something we could always use more of (particularly in that article). And if you're going to get involved with the article, please review the AfD. Sorry it's long, but it identifies a lot of the problems with the article, and I expect to be detailing more and more of them at both the AfD and the talk page. -- JohnWBarber ( talk) 23:26, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
Thank you for your contributions to the encyclopedia! In case you are not already aware, an article to which you have recently contributed,
Climate change denial, is on
article probation. A detailed description of the terms of article probation may be found at
Wikipedia:General sanctions/Climate change probation. Also note that the terms of some article probations extend to related articles and their associated talk pages.
The above is a
templated message. Please accept it as a routine friendly notice, not as a claim that there is any problem with your edits. Thank you. --
TS 18:32, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
Please look over Talk:Climate change denial#Removing sources. I've changed my mind and have some ideas for adding back the information, but I don't want to do it without getting some feedback. When you get a chance, please look it over. -- JohnWBarber ( talk) 02:55, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
Incorrect, Mackan, leaving notices on the talk pages of wikiprojects is the proper way to inform interested people without canvassing; please re-read WP:CANVASS. -- Avi ( talk) 16:08, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
I've requested an ArbCom review [43]. Cla68 ( talk) 01:18, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Since it's not fair to others to keep throwing statements in on my comment, I figured I'd come over and speak with you directly. Yes, I am quite familiar with AE, having worked there for many months both prior and after my break from here. And yes, I've run into heated discussions on that page, where an administrator was busy dismantling the thing I thought had kept a topic area under control, because he couldn't point to a specific authorization from the Committee about a general topic restriction. So yes, I do know the area quite well.
I just think that this could easily be solved with a discussion at AN/ANI.. if you have proof that he's affecting decisions. However, it seems to me like making an arbitration request to decide what section he should post in is.. somewhat similar to using sticks of dynamite to kill flies. SirFozzie ( talk) 08:02, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Hi Jehochman, I noticed that you collapsed the section on the canvassing issue (oddly called a WP:MEAT violation by one editor). I'd like to ask, however, about the first diff that you said you found unpersuasive regarding Ratel's acknowledgment to have canvassed for the request. You may have seen it was first pointed out first by Cla68 that Ratel did not notify all of the active editors on the page. Ratel said, "However, yes, I do suspect an element of bad faith in editors trying to insert FUD into climate-related article though, so I did not inform them." [44] Does this not suggest to you an issue with an excessively battleground mentality? It does not strike me as exactly subtle. I would ask you other questions here, but it seems more appropriate to comment over there. Mackan79 ( talk) 20:49, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Although we've disagreed on a number of things, I want to repeat that I have a lot of respect for you, and that respect has gone up even higher in the past week or so. At this point, I don't see any further value in editing in the WP:GSCC area, although I might change my mind. You've been reasonable throughout and I get the impression (I'm avoiding looking too closely, for my own peace of mind) that your reasonableness is not being returned. Personally, I can take only so many days or weeks of that and then I either need to leave or explode (I'm not quite there yet, but my boiling point tends to sneak up on me). My little bit of advice is easy to give and hard to follow: Whatever you do, don't let anyone goad you into anything rash. Nothing added or removed or reorganized in any of these articles is worth a rash action on your part. I think you retain a lot of credibility with a lot of editors and keeping cool will preserve it for when credibility is (eventually, one day) going to be very useful in this mess. -- JohnWBarber ( talk) 20:16, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
You are involved in a recently-filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests#Global warming and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—
Thanks, Ryan PostlethwaiteSee the mess I've created or let's have banter 13:16, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
An Arbitration request in which you are involved has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Climate change/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Climate change/Workshop.
Additionally, please note that for this case specific procedural guidelines have been stipulated; if you have any questions please ask. The full outline is listed on the Evidence and Workshop pages, but please adhere to the basics:
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, ~ Amory ( u • t • c) 00:36, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
I noted your recent edit which significantly altered the opening presentation of the article. There is already a discussion well underway in the talk section related to reaching some consensus in that regard. I am going to restore the lede which you edited and which has been used as a starting point for discussion. If you have some opinion to offer in that regard, I invite you to contribute to the talk discussion so we can mitigate the potential for edit-warring the lede and try to reach some consensus. Thanks JakeInJoisey ( talk) 22:18, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
I combined your section into the ongoing discussion about the lede [45] and I reverted a number of edits on the article page. Since the lead is the subject of discussion, we'll need that before changing it. I'm pretty upset with Nsaa's edits, but I trust that you changed the lead because you didn't realize the discussion was ongoing. If I've done something wrong on the talk page, feel free to restart your section, I won't revert. I'm more than happy to discuss any ideas you have for the article. -- JohnWBarber ( talk) 00:37, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
And I repeat, in response to your "And yet none of the nonpartisan, third-party sources discuss this even so far as to address whether the joke has any basis in reality or is purely a fabrication":
The article in question,
The Gore Effect, quotes CNN meteorologist
Rob Marciano but does not include his description of the "Gore Effect" as a joke among weathermen.
Here it is:
Also, please see my input at the bottom of this page. Regards, Yopienso ( talk) 01:43, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
I have reverted your edit to the introductory. Please seek a consensus as to your suggested text within talk. Please be reminded as well, no support for the premise that the satirical "Gore Effect", as approved by the AfD, and "other uses" are the same subject was offered in the dispute resolution section. Your suggested edit would ignore that consensus. JakeInJoisey ( talk) 05:50, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
Your patience is amazing! Active Banana ( bananaphone 19:51, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
Apart from what's already been discussed (including, of course, the issue of reverts) what could the arbcomm have done (apart from they already did) to help with the 'Gore effect' article? The process there, IMO, has been especially dysfunctional, but I can't figure out what could be done to better it other than an endorsement of WP:SYNTH and maybe the comment Carcharoth made at one point to consider articles "as a whole". Guettarda ( talk) 21:23, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
I draw your attention to [46] William M. Connolley ( talk) 17:50, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
... I thought that this was a particularly insightful comment. MastCell Talk 18:44, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
RD has now collapsed the section, so discussion there is, I suppose, closed. But I wanted to reply to your reply to: anyway. If you're bored, we can stop.
I asked for examples of NPOV stuff, and failing to discuss. However, you sidestepped the NPOV and veered off to BLP. Further, you didn't give any particular diffs, but just said "I agree with some of these". So, for example, [48] is perfectly NPOV. You may quibble it on BLP grounds, but that is another matter. The material is honest, accurate and fair. So, are you really complaining about NPOV or BLP?
As for discussion: you bring up [49] and say the removing editor had asked how this was controversial to Watts. I find that baffling. Isn't someone being arrested for trying to extort money from you pretty obviously "controversial"? WVB wasn't then and isn't now an editor in good faith. But yes I agree it would have been better discussed on talk.
(adds): You said: I suppose it's possible FloNight, I, members of ArbCom are just being unfair - well yes, it is. I've answered every single one of FN's examples, and they all fall apart when examined. Are you defending *any* of them? You, I think, are being less unfair. Arbcomm are starting with a badly biased PD that was written by Rlevse, who has since thankfully departed. They are slowly reworking it into something sane (though it would have been better just to throw the whole thing out and start from something honest). That has set the tone of much of the discussion.
There is a good example of this I've just run across at User_talk:A_Quest_For_Knowledge#Joanne_Nova. (Background: Joanne Nova is a an Australian freelance science presenter, writer, professional speaker & former TV host (to quote the current state of the article). But she is also a climate "skeptic", so needs to be puffed. So, she must be a *scientist* [50]. Yes, read the edit comment - the "skeptic" types really do believe that having a BSc in science makes you a scientist. And quite possibly they know so little about it that they really believe this. I've tried to discuss this on the talk page, and you can see the total blank incomprehension there. AQFK reverts the same rubbish back in [51] with no attempt at discussion (and I don't see you complaining about the "skeptics" reverting-without-discussion) - this is re-inserting nonsense into a BLP, which is what they pretend to care deeply about, but actually don't).
Anyway, sorry, that was the background rant. What I wanted you to look at was AQFK's talk. NW attempts to discuss the same issue: is she a scientist? Cla immeadiately jumps in with an attempt to derail the discussion. AQFK refuses to discuss the issue. This is a commonplace pattern; this is why I'm reluctant to spend time on talk with these people, because they are dishonest, and simply will not talk on the subject.
Another good example of fanatical removal to remove material is The Hockey Stick Illusion - see the talk there where any attempt to trim the unbalanced "reception" section is opposed William M. Connolley ( talk) 11:15, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged revisions, underwent a two-month trial which ended on 15 August 2010. Its continued use is still being discussed by the community, you are free to participate in such discussions. Many articles still have pending changes protection applied, however, and the ability to review pending changes continues to be of use.
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If you do not want this user right, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. Dabomb87 ( talk) 00:16, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
You were mentioned at WP:ANI#User Terra Novus - topic ban may need revision to include other controversial areas. Dougweller ( talk) 15:18, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
Dispute Resolution – Survey Invite Hello Mackan79. I am currently conducting a study on the dispute resolution processes on the English Wikipedia, in the hope that the results will help improve these processes in the future. Whether you have used dispute resolution a little or a lot, now we need to know about your experience. The survey takes around five minutes, and the information you provide will not be shared with third parties other than to assist in analyzing the results of the survey. No personally identifiable information will be released. Please click
HERE to participate. You are receiving this invitation because you have had some activity in dispute resolution over the past year. For more information, please see the associated research page. Steven Zhang DR goes to Wikimania! 01:28, 6 April 2012 (UTC) |
You merged Kandahar detention facility with Sarposa prison. Could you please direct me to the prior discussion where this merge was discussed?
It seems like a terrible idea to me, since the Kandahar detention facility was a brand new US facility built within the Kandahar airport, where-as the Sariposa prison is an older Afghan run facility.
So I would have questioned the wisdom of this redirection, if I had participated in the discussion. I look forward to reviewing the arguments offered.
Cheers! Geo Swan ( talk) 00:59, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
Stephen Breyer, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status will be removed from the article. AIRcorn (talk) 12:56, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
Hello Mackan79. It has now been over six months since you last edited your article submission, entitled Allegations of French apartheid.
If you no longer want this submission, it will shortly be deleted. However, if you wish to keep it, simply {{db-afc}}
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code.
If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you want to retrieve it, copy this code: {{subst:Refund/G13|Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Allegations of French apartheid}}
, paste it in the edit box at
this link, click "Save", and an administrator will place the undeleted submission in your user space.
Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Northamerica1000 (talk) 03:55, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
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talk) 13:59, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
Hello Mackan79! I am Jenhawk777 and I have recently done a major overhaul of the above article in an effort to focus it more on Christian thought, which reflects the title, broaden its sources, and hopefully get the tags removed and make every one happy. Oh, and I'm also working for world peace. :-) I am going through the talk page contacting anyone who demonstrated an interest in this delicious and obscure little article and am inviting them to come and take a look, give some input--even some criticism--and hopefully reach a consensus on getting those tags removed. Please take a look if you are still at all interested. Thank you! Jenhawk777 ( talk) 03:35, 3 May 2020 (UTC)