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It appears on this source that the quake took place at 9:53 PM GMT. Can anyone confirm? -- Camilo Sanchez ( talk) 00:17, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Have any cruise ships been affected? I remember having sailed into Grand Turk after the port opened after the recent hurricane (was it Ike?) that had struck there. 68.83.179.156 ( talk) 05:01, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Royal Caribbean has a private resort on Haiti called Labadee. It's a fair distance from the epicentre and from what I've read the initial survey didn't show any damage. The first ship due to arrive after the earthquake is the Independence of the Seas, on Friday, January 15th. They haven't announced any changes to the itinerary as of this point. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.225.137.250 ( talk) 18:29, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
The 1692 Jamaica earthquake article included a link to a journal article in which an earthquake of roughly this size was forecasted in 2006. not sure if it's relevant, or how to handle, so put in some language under Background.Stu 05:01, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
The arrondissement and department articles need to be updated to account for the earthquake, not just the Port-au-Prince city and Haiti articles.
76.66.197.17 ( talk) 12:56, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
The most notable victim of this disaster is the capital. Should we rename it to 2010 Port-au Prince earthquake, something like 1948 Ashgabat earthquake...?-- TheFEARgod ( Ч) 14:18, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
MMI | City | Population |
---|---|---|
X | Petit Goave | 15,000 |
X | Grand Goave | 5,000 |
IX | Gressier | 4,000 |
VIII | Carrefour | 442,000 |
VII | Miragoane | 6,000 |
VII | Port-au-Prince | 1,235,000 |
VII | Delmas 73 | 383,000 |
-- TheFEARgod ( Ч) 14:40, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Some disaster photos would be a good idea, for this and the related articles. 76.66.197.17 ( talk) 15:54, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/01/earthquake_in_haiti.html. I hope to get some personal photos from my parents soon. -- 70.82.4.109 ( talk) 17:12, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
American Airlines and Delta Air Lines have cancelled its flights to Haiti. JetBlue is allowing passengers traveling to Puerto Plata, Santo Domingo, or Santiago in the Dominican Republic whose travels are affected by the quake to rebook at no charge.
[4]
Krenakarore (
talk)
19:55, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
We had a few anon. IP editors warring a little over whether we shoud have links to Aid Organisations. Is this ever done? Personally I can't see the harm, at least while this is a current event(and assuming they are legitimate orgs. like the Red Cross). I suggested they try WikiNews instead. Any opinions? -- 220.101.28.25 ( talk) 08:56, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
How could the Red Cross be a scam?!!
69.171.160.185 ( talk) 09:20, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Can someone add in this South African aid information? I've never edited, so no idea how: http://www.timeslive.co.za/news/article259058.ece —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.208.200.246 ( talk) 15:16, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I think the problem is that we are showing clear bias towards certain charities over others, which is a serious compromise to the standards contributors have set over the years.
Then replace it with something better, don't just leave it with nothing. Lives depend on it.
America is the closest developed nation to the disaster and should therefore be well represented.
69.171.160.147 ( talk) 19:21, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Fanatical and Overzealous Link Deletion: Wikipedia states in it's its guidelines that one should not be fanatical about rules but should look at the overall mission of Wikipedia. Removal of Red Cross Aid links is absurd and fanatical. I have changed the Red Cross link to its DMOZ link. I ask for help from other wiki editors and administrators to stop fanatical and mindless deletion of nonprofit aid links, especially in an emergency. Please help by appealing over the heads of narrow rule interpretations and fanatical link deletions. Relevant nonprofit links were not what Wikipedia had in mind when they talked about reducing links.
I am not saying there should be tons of non-profit links but a few relevant ones (especially using DMOZ) is not a violation of any Wikipedia policy.
69.171.160.147 ( talk) 18:51, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I don't know the precedents or policy details, but I'm say
when you can do good, don't worry about the rules. Put in a factual context if you like: . Numerous aid organizations have set up websites in response to the earthquake including X Y and Z.--
Tznkai (
talk)
22:28, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
A group of vandals now keep removing the Red Cross links from the "International Response" section.
Can anyone help? If any admins see this-- please help, these are calloused and destructive acts of vandalism.
69.171.160.153 ( talk) 01:47, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
Verizon is making it easy for individuals to donate by punching in a text message code "90999" http://www.usatoday.com/tech/webguide/internetlife/2010-01-13-haitisocial_N.htm Ottawahitech ( talk) 17:58, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
With rescue effects still underway and news still too sketchy to be certain, <?>isn’t it too soon to have this article? It’s terribly tasteless (not to mention disrespectful) to be speaking of such an event while the dying are still dying, and at any rate for at least a week or so all news coming out of the event will be unreliable. 174.25.99.225 ( talk) 14:27, 13 January 2010 (UTC)A. REDDSON
Too soon? People will forget about Haiti one week from now. Also, Ppl know that this news is "young" so they should know not to take this seriously. Unless they are really dumb. Phead128 ( talk) 00:23, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
not to soon, an interesting detail is that even with the show of compassion now going on, the first 24 hours the western (and i think worldwide) public has not relevantly been informed as to the scale, nothing for certain ofcourse, but going to bed to perhaps a 100 dead and getting up at estimates reaching a 100k leaves a bitter taste, i just can't belief nothing was obvious the first 24 hours in the information society, likewise comments from twitter etc., i saw, never seemed to acces the scale in a rational manner. much could be improved for early reactions, also by correspondents locally giving more descriptive reporting. don't go it's pov., it is at least very curious it took 24 hours to allow the worlds public an assesment of the scales, and the aid's organisations responses a day late should not be allowed to gain credibility from that, whence otherways the next incident will also be smoothed untill it is late. 24.132.171.225 ( talk) 14:42, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
Can someone explain how Venezuela was affected? Only the infobox states that it was affected by the earthquake, while there is no other mentions of it or references. -- 12george1 ( talk) 15:09, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I would suggest splitting the reactions section into a seperate article. I think as the article's content grows splitting this section into its own article would make this article more navigatable. See Reactions to the 2008 Mumbai attacks for a similar example of a reactions section splitting off to form a seperate article. Burningview ✉ 16:38, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Should this be included in the article? USAtoday has this info at http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2010-01-12-Haiti_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip INFORMATION: Americans seeking news about family members in Haiti can call 1-888-407-4747, set up by the U.S. Department of State. Ottawahitech ( talk) 18:07, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I don't want to create a stir here, but I think this section is quite tasteless as it stands for a couple of related reasons: 1) It breaks casualties down by nation of origin (complete with flags!) which just seems unnecessary at this point; 2) In so doing, it gives far more attention to non-Haitian deaths, even though 99% of the people who died are undoubtedly Haitian. Currently we mention two Haitian people who were killed in the quake. Do we seriously believe it's important to mention that the Taiwan ambassador to Haiti "suffered broken bones and was taken to a hospital" when we're likely looking at 100,000+ deaths here? I think this section is completely embarrassing and plan to basically scrap it (I'd reduce mentions of foreign casualties to one sentence for the time being) in the near future unless someone explains why we give such undue weight to the deaths of non-Haitians. -- Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 19:09, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
why did someome remove the notice re. the death of the archbishop? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.162.215 ( talk) 19:34, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I disagree. Casualties are casualties, and a breakdown by nation is customary in articles about major disasters. I concur that the Taiwanese ambassador breaking several bones is not worthy of a mention here. In the future, as more details become available, 'Foreign deaths' should become a subsection, with the main 'Casualties' section focusing on the disastrous loss of live throughout the country. As of now, however, it's easier to obtain information on foreign victims, until major news organizations and governments inform us of the casualties among locals. Missionary ( talk) 20:20, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I think there are likely more foriegn casualties than listed here, but I think the point of this section as it stands is to offer info on known casualties, I don't think that by listing foriegn casualties we minimize in any way the devistating loss of Haitian life, and I am sure this will be expounded on significantly as news becomes available. I do think that in future, once more details are available, that 'Foreign casualties' should indeed become a subsection. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adbells1 ( talk • contribs) 21:10, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
The estimated death toll will depend on the exposed population, about 4 million, the building collapse rate, looks to be about 30% and the collapse rate to the fatality rate about 10% is a good guess in the epicentral area. The people in the US gov planning the response need this data. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Macneacail (
talk •
contribs)
05:13, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
I believe he means 4,000,000 X .3 X .1 = 120,000 estimated "fatalities," with many more "casualties." I am not sure, however; everyone is waiting for more substantive information about the scope of this disaster. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.235.72.139 ( talk) 13:02, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
agree, yesterday it was so distastefull today i didn't even take the pain of looking at it, 2 named haitians and a nobel price laureate, as if i even want to know that when there are 1000s people dead. 24.132.171.225 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:46, 15 January 2010 (UTC).
Just giving you all an updated wire: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N15143632.htm The Haitian government has buried 50k, they're expecting up to 200k. I tried editing the section but it wouldn't stick. So, I'm going to leave it in your hands. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.50.61.58 ( talk) 04:39, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
Another thing, the Haitian government has stated that it has buried 100,000 people. This should remove the Red Cross estimate of 45-50k. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.50.61.58 ( talk) 02:03, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
I have been listening to CTV News Channel about their Haiti earthquake coverage and they mentioned a couple points that I could not source on the Internet. I trust what they are saying is true, despite no website source. Two points they have made are that fraud telemarketers have been calling people to extort money from people and also a report of a missing former Member of Parliament whose name I cannot find. NorthernThunder ( talk) 19:42, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Please consider adding the following somewhere: Televangelist Pat Robertson referenced the Haitian Revolution's vodou origins as the explanation for the 2010 Haiti earthquake, when he told viewers of his Christian Broadcasting Network, "[S]omething happened a long time ago in Haiti, and people might not want to talk about it, they were under the heel of the French, uh, you know, Napoleon the third and whatever, and they got together and swore a pact to the devil, they said, we will serve you, if you get us free from the Prince, true story. And so the devil said, 'OK, it's a deal.' And they kicked the French out, the Haitians revolted and got themselves free, and ever since they have been cursed by one thing after the other, desperately poor." http://www.salon.com/news/haiti/index.html?story=/news/2010/01/13/haiti_robertson Salon.com - 'Robertson: Haiti had "pact with devil"' —Preceding unsigned comment added by MisterJayEm ( talk • contribs) 19:59, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
How are we putting together the list? Do we go on notable charities which have appealed or only if the appeal by the charity has had third party coverage? Any http://www.soschildrensvillages.org.uk/charity-news/Haitiappeal and http://shelterbox.org/ are missing along with many others. -- BozMo talk 20:52, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
After the tsunami, a separate article was created for donations. As I recall, it was protected from editing. We should create a separate article and allow only administrators to edit it. There are many reputable charities that should be mentioned. Charities can be added to the talk page and an administrator can check for reputability. I will be adding a news link that warns about scams. -- T1980 ( talk) 23:55, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm just repeating myself, since this seems to be where the discussion is happening:"I don't know the precedents or policy details, but I'm say when you can do good, don't worry about the rules. Put in a factual context if you like: . Numerous aid organizations have set up websites in response to the earthquake including X Y and Z.-- Tznkai ( talk) 22:28, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
-- Tznkai ( talk) 01:40, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
Hello! Okay, this seems to be the right section to put this: There has been a call on twitter to create a relief wiki for Haiti:
http://twitter.com/BENatDAP/status/7775787156 Is anyone here up to that challenge? Because I'm totally not.
Evening Scribe (
talk)
05:53, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
I know that it's a bit early for this discussion, but I fear that this page will grow quite a bit. Does anyone object to me setting up automatic archiving for this page using MiszaBot? Unless otherwise agreed, I would set it to archive threads that have been inactive for 14 days and keep the last ten threads.-- Oneiros ( talk) 22:37, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
About half of this article is flag icons. Okay not half but a lot. Is there a reason this is desirable? Do we really want an article on a horrifying tragedy in Haiti to be covered with a bunch of flag icons from around the world? Is this standard practice for these kind of articles?
The problem beyond just the flags is that about half the article text (for real this time) is devoted to what other countries said about the tragedy and not the tragedy itself. What the other countries say and offer in the way of help is extremely predictable (if no doubt appreciated), but we seem to be on a path where we'll have a statement from the president or foreign minister of every nation in the UN eventually. Is there a way to get this under control by changing the format of this section? I'm wondering if editors who have worked on these "unfolding disaster" articles before have any wisdom to offer here in terms of preventing them from becoming an endless list of responses/reactions. It's completely insane that we only have one paragraph (in the "aftermath" section) on what actually happened to Haiti and Haitians and five times that much on things like "Schools help donate with bake sales, and fundraisers" and "A team of 23 rescue workers and two specially trained dogs will be sent." Obviously a lot of people will make drive-by edits and want to make sure that their nation's efforts to help are recognized (which is perfectly understandable) but we need to rein that in. -- Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 00:32, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
I'll tell you what I don't like about the current flag usage. What do flags indicate? Do flags represent the governments of countries, or the people of those countries? Should I be expecting to see donations and help provided by people generously and voluntarily, or the actions of leaders eager to express their status in world affairs? – RVJ ( talk) 05:29, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
well actually yes, the usual article of a current event is mutilated that way, usually with proud expressions of condolences of non affected bobo's elsewhere.you might as well include the line: standard rhetorics of sorrow have been expressed by all trade partners that left them to poor to fence for themselves. 24.132.171.225 ( talk) 14:50, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
It says, "Haitian president Preval later confirmed that Annabi died in the earthquake. Annabi was meeting with a Chinese delegation at the time of the disaster." Was he there or not? This part of the article doesn't make sense. Abce2 ( talk) 02:35, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
Sean.hoyland - talk 03:15, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
UNOSAT have published their first preliminary analysis of Satellite-Identified IDP Concentrations, Road & Bridge Obstacles in Central Port-au-Prince. See EQ-2010-000009-HTI. Sean.hoyland - talk 05:51, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
I can't make an edit without getting a (sometimes multiple) edit conflicts. Sorry, just expressing my frustration. Grsz 11 04:23, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
Wouldn't "2010 Haitian Earthquake" be better than "Haiti Earthquake" for name of the article.-- 174.103.224.13 ( talk) 05:18, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
Can we add this image to the article? I don't know about the legal copyright requirements, but maybe someone here does and can add it with the proper tags. NorthernThunder ( talk) 06:05, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
http://www.mofa.go.jp/mofaj/press/danwa/22/dga_0113b.html says there are 20 Japanese in Haiti and all are connected to the Japanese Embassy there. The MOFA is calling them missing until information is received from them. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 06:21, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
What's with the removal of the 500,000 estimate? Has the source retracted the guess?-- Metallurgist ( talk) 07:25, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
BBC today on the news said 50,000 dead so far. 86.16.163.55 ( talk) 18:05, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
I think it would be interesting to know the total monetary aid amount Haiti has received in USD. -- Erroneuz1 ( talk) 07:28, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
According to UOL, USD 151 million. Missionary ( talk) 11:37, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
Gordon brown of the UK just gave 6 million GBP (~10 or ~11 million dollars i think?) 86.16.163.55 ( talk) 18:07, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
I propose we move the International response section to a new article. NorthernThunder ( talk) 07:32, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
I post at a site that monitors world-wide disasters (mostly medical) and they are stunned with the fast and accurate job that Wikipedia has done with this earthquake. So am I - it's pretty amazing! Gandydancer ( talk) 11:42, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
There are some decent pictures ie Presidential 'Palace', here -- 220.101.28.25 ( talk) 12:30, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
I think we have enough pictures now that we can figure out a good one to go into the info box, in part in order to get the earthquake template to stop stop adding the category about the article needing a picture. :) The best one that I see in the article itself is IMHO File:Haiti earthquake damage overhead.jpg. Does anyone have any other candidates for a lead image? - TexasAndroid ( talk) 14:04, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
The article should start to form context for the rebuilding and political/economic issues in Haiti. For a recent event, editors who add information to this article should peek in at 2008 Sichuan earthquake. There are already international political issues as CNN reported that the first country to assist was the Dominican Republic, which has eased tensions between the two countries. A parallel with the "tofu dregs buildings" in China is the same lax construction standards in Haiti due to its significant poverty issues. Plus, in the second story, a guy named Hamburger is quoted. Surely that is some kind of value... -- Moni3 ( talk) 14:22, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
This section and the table appears to be original research and doesn't cite any sources, just states which sources the data was derived from, with no indication that anyone other than the author has done the derivation. -- 86.189.13.123 ( talk) 14:55, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
The lede references the USGS when referring to aftershocks in the area, but this page lists notable quakes in the last 7 days, and thus will be obsolete in a week. Is there something more permanent we can use? Redoubts ( talk) 14:59, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
I just split the aftermath and casualties sections and created a page for Casualties of the 2010 Haiti earthquake. I half to travel out of town, so I'll leave the aftermath editing up to someone else. David Straub ( talk) 00:56, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
The sourced, and brief, mention that this is the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere is directly pertinent to their ability to cope with the emergency and provides valuable background as to why they are having difficulty coping. In my view it should remain though I have moved it to Background from the lead. Bridgeplayer ( talk) 16:29, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
I don't believe listing non-notable individuals killed is particularly useful or appropriate, as it seems to give those individuals much more weight than the thousands upon thousands of Haitians that will be determined killed. Notable individuals are of course worthy, like the Brazilian doctor and perhaps the Canadian professor, but other individuals are not. Perhaps when we have more definitive information, we can say X Canadians were killed, but that is for later. Grsz 11 17:29, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
In this section...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Haiti_earthquake#The_Loss
Do we really need to have it with its present content? It seems very editorial in nature, rather than presenting factual information (virtually all of what's presented is impossible to cite). -- 98.193.140.235 ( talk) 03:10, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
Hi- new to posting or talking on Wiki and want to comment on the relief efforts discussed in this article that Wycleff has given over the years. There are external links people can visit to find out how to help and support the people devasted by the recent earthquake in Haiti. Recommend those who want to support and give aid to do so through the work and support of Wycleff.
Lealani33 ( talk) 06:43, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
Is there an article on Port-au-Prince's seaport? If not, such an article should be created. 76.66.197.17 ( talk) 13:33, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
The Russian Map is pretty nice... should ours be like it? 76.66.197.17 ( talk) 13:43, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
Somebody took out all mention of Topos de Tlatelolco in the 14 January section of the article. While I expected it to be modified, I didnt expect it to disappear completely. This is an all-volunteer group from Mexico trained especially for rescue and recovery from collapsed buildings and have been involved with disasters in 22 countries. Deserves a mention.... I cant find how the whole thing disappears since early today, however. Thelmadatter ( talk) 15:31, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
CBC and CTV are now reporting 1,415 Canadians are now missing in Haiti. [10] -- Kuzwa ( talk) 15:47, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
See this. Directing to what looks like a collection of headlines underneath a lot of advertising. Looks like spam. User who added is Earthquake News Headlines ( talk · contribs). -- Moni3 ( talk) 15:55, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
TSR.ch in an article [11] reported that "...l'université de l'Agence universitaire de la Francophonie (AUF) ont été également été détruits." I checked the AUF website and found that they have an institute called "L'Institut de la Francophonie pour la Gestion dans la Caraïbe (IFGCar)", and it is also called "L'Institut Aimé Cessaire" [12]. The addresses of the Caribbean regional office of AUF and IFGCar are the same, and from this article [13] it is reported that the Institut Aimé Césaire was damaged.
Despite of the information above, I decided to change the "Caribbean regional office of AUF" in the list of damaged buildings in the main article to "Institute Aimé Césaire", for this information is more direct and relies less on inference. Qrfqr ( talk) 17:56, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
Is there value in developing a template for future disaster articles to assist with managing the development of an article from one day to the next? Something like a FAQ template on the talk page that will clarify issues and set rules such as:
This article is about a disaster that has recently occurred. Editors contributing to this article should
Intended to be kept on the article talk page for one or two weeks. I'm not so great with templates and stuff, otherwise I'd make one to make it look official. Thoughts? Suggestions? --
Moni3 (
talk)
19:38, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
As more images become available, it is inevitable that they will be added to the article. Please ensure that the article adheres to the Manual of Style for images, which can be found here.
Please avoid sandwiching text, especially with images that are purely decorative. There is a sandwiching issue already in the Geology section, but both these images are important for the understanding of the earthquake.
If there is a decision between stacking images on the right, or sandwiching, consider removing an image in a section, or placing them in a gallery at the bottom of the article.
Please make sure all images are in the public domain, and have sourcing, date, and author information on the image pages. -- Moni3 ( talk) 04:51, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
I don't believe that it belongs in the article, but information on and photos of Haiti's National Penitentiary can be found here: http://sciencespeaks.wordpress.com/2009/07/31/a-mission-possible-one-groups-crusade-to-save-inmates-from-hiv-tb-in-developing-world-prisons/ (The prison was destroyed in the earthquake) Michaelh2001 ( talk) 06:33, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
I know this came up earlier but it might be good to choose and monitor the external links a bit more carefully. I've just removed a link to an obvious scam but given the level of activity on the article, some things like that might slip through. Given the high traffic of Wikipedia, the last thing we want is to inadvertently send readers to such sites. In any case, to all people who have the article watchlisted, please keep an eye out for this! Pichpich ( talk) 17:26, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
Somebody please fix the article. I came in to check the page and someone vandalized the article and removed everything. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.196.167.97 ( talk) 17:55, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
Semi-protect the article! DavidHøstbo ( talk) 18:13, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
I cannot edit semiprotected articles, so please fix:
The amphibious assault ship USS Bataan has also been deplored to Haiti, along with two dock landing ships."
thank you
96.243.205.39 (
talk)
19:20, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
Please Add New Figures:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60E5EC20100115 Haitian authorities have buried 40,000 bodies and believe another 100,000 people probably died in this week's earthquake, a senior official told Reuters on Friday.
Other source for same info above:
http://cbs13.com/national/haiti.earthquake.survivors.2.1429917.html http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N1552739.htm http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3834995,00.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.20.55.87 ( talk) 19:31, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
The heading of this photo is misleading. This photo reads: "Victims from Haiti earthquake are unloaded at U.S. Naval Hospital Guantanamo Bay, Cuba" but it should read, "American victims from Haiti earthquake are unloaded at U.S. Naval Hospital Guantanamo Bay, Cuba," as the U.S. is only airlifting out American civilians and not Haitians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.71.14.183 ( talk) 20:30, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
This article now has a section entitled "Recovery" which relates that two former US presidents will mobilize to coordinate donation efforts. How is this any different from the "Response" section, which also depicts efforts being undertaken by the international community to recover the country from disaster?
The entire "Recovery" section is redundant and should be scrapped IMO. As conditions in Haiti improve, this section would be useful in describing how the country overcame its current situation. It's still too early for that, however. Missionary ( talk) 22:06, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
I notice the page was moved without discussion. The previous title was not grammatically incorrect and was consistent with other articles such as 1997 Iran earthquake, 2003 Bam earthquake and 1906 San Francisco earthquake. -- Pontificalibus ( talk) 23:33, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
It is odd that Wikipedia administrators endorse incorrect grammar. :- ) ( talk) 23:44, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
Can we make this official now so we can set one consistent date format throughout the article?
Day month (European) or month day (American)? (Citations excepted for now.) -- Moni3 ( talk) 23:38, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
Only now have I realized that the American system is not followed by Britain. I vote for American, since that's where most visitors to this page likely come from. Missionary ( talk) 23:42, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(dates_and_numbers)#Retaining_the_existing_format. Tony (talk) 02:13, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
There seems to be quite a few external links, and there's a note warning that it needs cleaning up. But I can't see any that should be removed... what do others think? Can we remove that warning? - Tbsdy lives (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) talk 03:50, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
It needs to be split into a new article ASAP. It will pile up with new information in the coming weeks just like the articles on events in Iran and Honduras from last year. I don't want to get into persistent reverts over this, so I'm recommending this on the talk page for posterity. -- Toussaint ( talk) 18:09, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
A summary has been replaced with citations and a hatnote to
Timeline of rescue efforts after the 2010 Haiti earthquake, which I have to note has no lead, and needs some formatting assistance. --
Moni3 (
talk)
19:35, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
Someone made a big ol' boo boo... So, I fixed for you all.
Good luck in the recovery.
-Pat
K8cpa ( talk) 00:14, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
So the article did mention that Haiti was a poor country, which seems relevant to its ability to handle a disaster. Evercat ( talk) 23:52, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
And I heard on the BBC Two programme Newsnight on January 13 that Haiti is the poorest country in the Western hemisphere - I had heard BBC radio news making similar claims that day. ACEOREVIVED ( talk) 00:23, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
they make an average $256 a year, i think that would be a good illustrative figure. 24.132.171.225 ( talk) 14:33, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
I would like to add a section on how the online software community has really come together to aid the response. Three projects in particular are especially noteworthy:
Disclaimer: I am part of the Sahana team working on the response TimClicks ( talk) 05:16, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
Hi! I'm not a regular here, so I'm not sure what the editing etiquette is. I came across the reference to 'road blocks out of dead bodies' in the 'Conditions in the Aftermath' section. This seems highly implausible to me. More likely bodies were piled up in one place because they had to be put somewhere. As far as I can see was only reported by one journalist, quoted in the Telegraph article (Shaul Schwarz, a photographer for TIME magazine, said he saw at least two roadblocks formed with bodies of earthquake victims and rocks). Is there any way Wikipedia can verify this? Maybe if the roadblocks were seen by another journo? Otherwise I would remove the sentence. 79.239.238.141 ( talk) 10:56, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
I propose that this category be restricted to "victims" (killed, wounded, trapped in rubble). Currently, as it is formulated, it is overly broad, and just about anyone could be categorized into it, like President Clinton, General Secretary Ban Ki Moon, Sanjay Gupta, any politician voicing support for Haiti, any public figure promoting donations to relief funds, etc. 76.66.197.17 ( talk) 11:25, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
Discussion should occur at Category talk:People associated with the 2010 Haiti earthquake#Proposal - restriction of scope
This quote is not supported by the reference: Elisabeth Byrs of the UN called it the worst disaster the United Nations has experienced because the organizational structures of the UN in Haiti and the Haitian government were destroyed.[16]
It seems an odd thing to say, and I'd like to remove it if a reference is not provided. Thoughts? Gandydancer ( talk) 13:32, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
The following line seems to jump to a conclusion:
"Slow distribution of resources and the absence of any central authority in the days after the earthquake resulted in violence..."
How can we say for certain that a lack of a central authority leads to violence? Plenty of central authorities around the world become involved in violence.
It goes on to say:
"At least one looter was killed as Haitian police fired upon hundreds," ... so the police are in fact contributing to violence themselves.
A replacement phrase might be, "Loss of social cohesion and general insecurity following the earthquake resulted in violence..."
But actually the whole aspect of social re-organisation following the disaster is quite interesting. The article goes on to say that women have been seen marching through the streets singing; so that is a spontaneous event which is quite independent of central authority which is providing a sense of social cohesion amongst the survivors.
I'm not saying that a lack of central authority has not led to violence, but that the statement is not a factual one; it is speculation. If we could say "media reports suggest that a lack of a central authority has resulted in violence" I would be happy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.241.80.116 ( talk) 13:40, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
In Conditions in the aftermath, this article states, "Even Haitian President René Préval was unsure of where he was going to sleep after his home was destroyed," and gives as a reference "Charles, Jacqueline, Clark, Lesley, Robles, Frances (14 January 2010). Supplies begin to arrive in Haiti as aftershocks shake stunned nation, The Miami Herald. Retrieved on 14 January 2010." I don't see anything in that article to support that claim, however. Perhaps I am just missing something? — Bkell ( talk) 13:43, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
Lack of clarity. Source: Prime Minister Jean-Max Bellerive said the government will begin busing people outside Port-au-Prince as early as Wednesday, while relocating homeless people to spontaneous camps established by residents within the metropolitan area where distribution of aid can be focused and some measure of sanitation provided.
That says to me that people in Port-au-Prince would be bused out. Others who are homeless would be relocated to the makeshift camps that will be cleaned up and used (fortified was my original verb) as central aid locations. The article says something different now. -- Moni3 ( talk) 19:20, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
People are trying to plan for event. There are about 6 people in the world who can estimate a death toll based on scant information. If Wikipedia is not the place to get it out then so be it, but the likely toll will be 250,000.
Good luck.
John Nichols
article says: " with as many as 100,000 deaths likely, according to the prime minister."
The BBC and the red cross just said on the 6pm news today that its estimated at 50,000 dead, and over 150,000 injured. 86.16.163.55 ( talk) 18:05, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
my bet is these figures will remain (close to) future official statements, rightfully so or not. personally i guess it actually happens to be on the higher side , else they wouldn't have hesitated the reporting so long. 24.132.171.225 ( talk) 14:54, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
The current death toll is "So far, the total deaths has been counted at 5,000,000,000." something tells me that 5 Billion is incorrect, can somebody fix this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.193.229.2 ( talk) 19:56, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
Magnitude 7.0 is a big earthquake but not a huge one. This one caused unprecedented loss of life merely because of its location: right near the capital of a poor and overpopulated country with nonexistent building code enforcement. There was a 6.5 a few days earlier in the United States which caused only minimal damage. Timothy Horrigan ( talk) 06:26, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
Whats with all the love for Wyclef, Cuba, Qatar, and Dom rep in the wikipedia articles on this disaster??? seems disproportionate to their impact or relevance. - 63.239.65.9 ( talk) 17:32, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
The quantity of mentions of Israel is really disporportionate (really? a "ZAKA" quote comparing things with the Holocaust?). There is only one passing mention to the Argentinian hospital, the only one working during the first days after the quake, also with a lot of Cuban doctors well before the US decided to send its soldiers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.70.18.2 ( talk) 12:14, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
According to http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3836254,00.html, "CNN reported that Israel is the only state so far to have sent a field hospital equipped with all that is required for surgical operations. Doctors from various missions send patients requiring surgery to Israel's makeshift hospital, particularly those whose condition is critical, the news network said. According to the report, other field hospitals contain no more than stretcher beds and medical teams who administer first aid, and they are not prepared for complex surgery" I didn't find the actual report (possibly video only, but for those who don't consider a major Israeli newspaper a reliable source, I did find the following corroboration ( http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/18/haiti.earthquake/index.html): "At a U.S. medical facility, doctors were asking why they didn't have critical equipment or the ability to perform surgeries, while a field hospital set up by Israel did." It appears that the Israeli contribution is of particular significance. So who wants to update the article? Pedantrician ( talk) 22:12, 19 January 2010 (UTC)Pedantrician
Well, "Shabbat from Hell" doesn't sound as the best bit we can get. The "coniditions in the aftermath" contains mentions about the Dominican Republic, the US and an Israeli. It reeks of hasbara, especially when they were not there in the immediate aftermath 200.70.18.2 ( talk) 16:07, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
Why is the destruction of the UN headquarters headlined in this article: I think it does a huge disrespect to the 100,000s of ordinary Haitians killed in this disaster, to pick out the deaths of UN staff members as worthy of special mention in the opening paragraph. Are these lives worth more? This must be removed immediately! Orthorhombic ( talk) 10:39, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
It's probably time to start expanding the lead, but keeping it tame. Everyone with a keyboard or a microphone will have some weird comparison (the 1906 San Francisco earthquake of 2010! in Haiti!), and every natural disaster according to anyone who has ever seen it apparently looks like a war zone (although, oddly, many of the people making these comparisons have never seen a war zone).
The lead should be trim and reflect what has been covered. A new paragraph should discuss the aggravation to the destruction, which is Haiti's poverty leading to cheaply made buildings, the response to the disaster, and the impediments to aid reaching people. Thoughts? -- Moni3 ( talk) 13:19, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
Damage from the earthquake was catastrophic. It occurred very close to a city with a large population. Haiti's political and economic infrastructure is vulnerable and government was unable to respond with authority. Haiti's poverty aggravated building construction, making structures weaker and more susceptible to collapse. MINUSTAH forces that were charged with maintaining order were themselves severely disrupted and rendered ineffective. The international military operation of administering rescue and relief to damaged regions was hampered by disorganization.
(from the intro) In what way did the UN experience a disaster? The UN has nothing to do with Haiti any more than it does with any other country. Why are they even mentioned in the intro? JettaMann ( talk) 16:14, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
First, what is this source? http://www.narconews.com/ Who prints it? Is it fact checked? Is it user generated? It does not appear to be reliable. It's the source for this statement: The roof of the facility reportedly collapsed and caught fire, and family members have been unable to find their incarcerated relatives.
Can anyone find the name of the prison? I have not been able to. -- Moni3 ( talk) 19:02, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
I think discussion of media coverage should be expanded in the article. Certainly some broadcasters, CNN in particular, are now rivalling 9/11 in their round-the-clock coverage of the disaster (perhaps only the Katrina coverage comes close). There has also been documented examples of media becoming directly involved in rescue/communication efforts. Dr. Sanjay Gupta of CNN was widely reported as doing medical procedures when not on the air, and was the only doctor left behind in one compound when the others were ordered out late last week. Canadian journalist Tom Clark of CTV was able to track down the mother of a Canadian viewer during his time in Haiti. And there was also a report that someone was able to confirm their loved one was alive because that person appeared in the background of a shot on Larry King Live. There are undoubtedly others - enough for a section and possibly a spin-off article. 68.146.81.123 ( talk) 20:54, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
-- Moni3 ( talk) 06:31, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
There seems to be bias in the photos. All photos in the Response and Rescue sections show only US rescue or medical teams, can't we find some from other countries? -- Pontificalibus ( talk) 23:25, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
Add Sam Dixon (humanitarian) to the casualty list.
He was the head of the humanitarian relief agency of The United Methodist Church.
http://new.gbgm-umc.org/umcor/newsroom/releases/archives2010/unitedmethodistreliefexecutivedies/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.230.152.17 ( talk) 05:14, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
Concrete Borer for rescue
What is needed is to pre-position on a regional basis, as well as per earthquake country, a portable Concrete Borer. Concrete is porous and weak, and can easily be drilled with a 2 foot wide bit bore, gears, and electric motor, and generator. Also acetylene cutting torch for cutting through iron rod reinforcers. Perhaps liquifier and suction for concrete dust. When cries of ahwie are heard, one could drill; concrete would present no barrier; awkwardness of heavy equipment would not be needed; since the instrument of hope (100s) is there. Simple engineering and manufacture for the world community, and for the next disaster. An outsourcing project for any government or foundation? Zanardm ( talk) 08:32, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
The speed, breadth and depth of this important article is madly impressive. Kudos to all involved. This is a lot of people who are now better informed and may be able to contribute. Fainites barley scribs 10:16, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
FWIW although it is OR so I am not putting it in, the claim that the number of orphans will rise looks a little rocky. There are likely to be 5-10,000 children orphaned by the earthquake [19] but if 3% of the population has been killed probably 10,000 existing orphans will have been killed...miserable of course but perhaps an overall decrease. -- BozMo talk 17:29, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
Quick public service announcement: the Geological Society of America has compiled a number of papers related to the Haiti earthquake, and has them currently available for free download. Awickert ( talk) 23:35, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
The Commander-in-chief of Canada, Michaëlle Jean is Haitian, perhaps some of her statements should be included as a foreign-(pseudo)-head-of-state and prominent international Haitian? 76.66.197.17 ( talk) 08:35, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
If you want an actual Canadian perspective, I can tell you that it would be highly unusual to refer to our Governor General as the Canadian Commander-in-Chief. The Governor General in Canada doesn't have the same authorities as the American President in terms of being able to order our armed forces to do anything. That powers rests with the Canadian Parliament. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.225.137.250 ( talk) 17:14, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
Okay, someone used the wrong title, but is the rest of the point well-taken? rakslice ( talk) 08:28, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
This section has a very succinct explanation in prose and three images, making it crowded and difficult to read, which is a shame. I was trying yesterday to figure out how to put the captions on the side of File:Haiti USGS body wave moment tensor arrows.svg, like in a table or something, but I'm not good at it and nothing seemed to work.
Can we make a decision about which images should be placed in this section? It's getting crowded. -- Moni3 ( talk) 19:06, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
This is what I tried to prevent with splitting the section into a new article, since the article's getting congested again. I would at least ask those who want to contribute to the coverage of rescue actions to place the information in the relevant dedicated article rather than congest this section further with ongoing info. -- Toussaint ( talk) 01:16, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
There are conflicting reports of the security situation. The Guardian's blog says
"The debate over the extent of violence in Haiti continues to polarise opinions. Dr Evan Lyon of Partners in Health, working at the General Hospital in Port-Au-Prince, told Democracy Now: 'There are no security issues.' One thing that it is important for people to understand is misinformation and rumours and - at the bottom of the issue - racism have slowed the recovery efforts of this hospital"
Can anyone find reliable sources for the claim that the security sitaution is being overstated and causing problems in delivering aid? -- Pontificalibus ( talk) 16:35, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
I really really would like to see this used somehow... its an important topic which ties into the region's history and it does have precedents... so anyways the rule of thumb we used across the wildly contentious articles related to the 08 elections, was that if it was a blog from an RS, then that was considered ok as long as it wasn't an editorial type blog... so I honestly think the first quote is fully citeable and it uses the more direct language I would like to see. Honestly if the R-word is showing up in UK press then we need to respond... that word has every place in this article if its from an RS. Fancy-cats-are-happy-cats ( talk) 05:18, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Why did so many buildings collapse? I can't seem to find information on WHY a 7.0 m earthquake would destroy entire cities. I grew up in southern California and certainly experienced 7.0 earthquakes. While very intense, frightening and certain to cause some level of damage, whole neighborhoods didn't collapse on top of people. I realize this is anectdotal, but I can't help but wonder. Is Haiti's poverty partly to blame for poorly funded/built infrastructure? Where is this discussed? It should be discussed at length, I would think. - Laikalynx ( talk) 17:58, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
--It is because Haiti never had good infrastrucure/buildings-they were mostly NOT earthquake ready. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
209.253.69.197 (
talk)
05:10, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
I just wanted to clear up a syntax mistake in citations to avoid...when there is a foreign language involved in a reference, for consistency sake, you should cite it like this:
The very common mistake in this case is writing the following:
The latter, in my opinion, is not what the cite template says, so it is not correct, even if you are citing it by hand (which I am totally not capable of doing :-P).
If you have any comments about this or you believe otherwise, feel free to respond to this. Thanks! -- Whaatt uSpeak what iDone 01:00, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Somebody recently (re)created List of 2010 Haiti earthquake aftershocks. The article currently has essentially no substantial info but that could be fixed. The question is: do we want to build this separately or do we want to keep this info in the main article? I'm not too sure myself so comments and suggestions are welcome. Pichpich ( talk) 14:09, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
There is a large number of related pics on Commons now, I believe we could rotate between with some regularity. Missionary ( talk) 16:23, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
The Italian government immediately sent two military transport planes that used to bring medicines, food, a field hospital and the emergency medical team. Italy send an aircraft carrier with 920 military personnel aboard to Haiti to assist in rescue and reconstruction work following the Jan. 12 earthquake that devastated the country. The Cavour sail from Italy on Jan. 19, with a stop planned in Brazil to pick up Brazilian military medical staff, the Italian military general staff said in a statement. The Cavour transport Italian Navy helicopters, tracked and wheeled Army vehicles, and hospital facilities that offer two operating theaters. A company of Army engineers is included in the contingent, as well as 550 Cavour crew members and medical staff, and force protection personnel from the Navy, Army and Air Force. The Haiti mission is the Cavour's first since it gained full operational capability last June. The 27,600-metric-ton vessel is 237 meters long and 39 meters wide. The Cavour can generate enough electricity for 6,000 homes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9eUN0DLseY
Italy intends to cancel the debt the Caribbean country owes it, valued at over 40 million euros. Italy will also send a further contingent of 200 members of its military Carabinieri police corps to Haiti to help ensure security for the distribution of aid. The Carabinieri would be part of an EU police force to restore order and end looting on the island.
Humanitarian assistance of Italy is second only to the United States. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.15.194.19 ( talk) 16:39, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
(previously posted in the village pump)
I started a wikicommunity help action at the Dutch wiki, and imagine that we can help on all wiki's as humans helping humans. We can support all victims in Haiti by placing a small 'banner' on our User and Talk pages. I used this one:
Code:
<div style="margin:1; background:#074074; font-family: sans-serif; font-size:100%; font-weight:bold; border:1px solid #cef2e0; text-align:center; color:#FFFFFF; padding-left:0.4em; padding-top: 0.2em; padding-bottom: 0.2em;"><Big>I'd like to express my support, my compassion and my humanity to the victims of the human catastrophe in Haiti.<br/>'''''Please, donate to your local Aid Agency or the RED CROSS'''''</BIG></div>
I think from the humanitarian perspective we now need to support all those there suffering from this horrible catastroph. Let's step a bit over the 'wiki-only' horizon, and let's do a bit of support where we can! I hope this initiative will get noticed and followed by all other users! (You also might use other places like Facebook, Myspace etc for this!)
Yours Sincerely, Tjako ( talk) 22:58, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
Do we use this or not? Need consensus... Modernist ( talk) 00:24, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
Voodoo priests in Haiti objected to proposed mass burials of the deceased, because they believed it would cause them to return as zombies. [2]
Keep Yes we should use it. It's relevant and well sourced. And it helps to show how scientifically backward their culture is, which is one reason why their buildings were so weak in the first place. Grundle2600 ( talk) 03:24, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
'Keep: Voodooism as a religion is as valid to those who follow it as Christianity, Islaam, or any other. Regards, Lynbarn ( talk) 16:26, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
On the other hand, the Christians and Muslims I've known would not object to mass burial as an essential public health measure in a disaster. I'm just sayin'. 192.12.184.2 ( talk) 15:20, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
I added this, and it has been removed. I'd like to discuss it because I think it has value in the article, and it may need to be rewritten: Inured by generations of political instability and corruption, many Haitians took the lack of authority in stride, using the Creole proverb "Grés kochon ki kwit kochon'" or "the pork has to cook by its own fat" to explain that they had to take care of themselves.
I've read in several sources that many Haitians are taking the lack of organization and government ineptitude in stride. I cited only one source, but I believe I could find more. I have to go to bed, so I can't figure it out now, but for those of you working on the article if you'd like to give your thoughts, I'd appreciate it. -- Moni3 ( talk) 04:22, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
The passage is an amalgamation of ideas: decades of political instability, poverty, unreliable civil services such as potable water and electricity, and many Haitians are not waiting for international rescue efforts to come to their aid:
The Miami Herald report, with the Creole proverb, just states these ideas very succinctly. -- Moni3 ( talk) 13:54, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
-- Pontificalibus ( talk) 19:04, 19 January 2010 (UTC)The Miami Herald reported that many Haitians took the lack of authority in stride. Men coordinated to act as security, while groups of women attempted to take care of food and hygiene necessities. One self-appointed security guard used the Creole proverb "Grés kochon ki kwit kochon'" or "the pork has to cook by its own fat" to explain that they had to take care of themselves."
Ok, I'm thinking about this. Wikipedia does allow information in articles where experts state their opinions, commenting on cause and effect relationships such as the statement made in this source. So this begs some questions: is this article at the appropriate stage to do this? Undoubtedly, many experts will be stating their opinions on the efficacy of aid and the role of wealthier nations in Haiti's destruction and recovery, so it's best to resolve this now before the article expands. Is The Miami Herald or the reporters involved in writing the series of stories about the earthquake to be considered experts? I am unable right now to make a case that The Miami Herald staff are experts on social issues in Haiti, but is this conceivable that they might be with their focus on Haiti's social issues in the recent past? If not a journalist, would someone else's opinion be accepted, such as an historian, sociologist, humanitarian, politician, or someone with acknowledged experience with this kind of insight? The suggested replacement is inaccurate to the source; The Miami Herald reported that many Haitians took the lack of authority in stride yes, but because Haitians have experience with inept and unstable authority. Without that, it's a rather meaningless statement making them seem like simpletons. The proverb was common during the Duvalier dictatorships, according to the story, alluding again to political ineptitude. It's an incomplete and oversimplified picture without these considerations. -- Moni3 ( talk) 21:35, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
It seemed to me that the referenced source had encycopedic content, but the original text posted here read almost as if it stated the opinion of WP or of the editors working on our article; most of the proposed alternatives either did the same or seemed to have been tortured into neutrality. Perhaps it should be in a paragraph that covers media reports of the opinions being offered of Haiti and its people following the quake. It seems to me that many besides Pat Robertson are spouting racist nonsense, much as they did after Katrina. To some extent, the current text of the aftermath section tells both sides in a factual, if limited way, but the words "negative," "opinion," "media," and "coverage" don't appear in the article. "Bias" and "reporting" only appear once each, and in a different context.-- Hjal ( talk) 23:44, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
Moni3 wrote the opinion with political bias, so I wrote an opposite opinion. But Moni3 removed mine immediately. Moni3's editing that remove dissenting opinion and want to continue only own description, is not neutral.-- 121.3.66.64 ( talk) 03:08, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: consensus to oppose with no contentious debate -- Pontificalibus ( talk) 09:18, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
2010 Haiti earthquake → January 12, 2010 Haiti Earthquake We should move this article because a second, strong, (initial estimate is 6.1 Mw) possibly unrelated earthquake (in that this quake was 'triggered' by the first, but is probably not a true aftershock) struck Haiti on January 20, 2010.
The first earthquake (12 January) struck to the west-southwest of Port-au-Prince, but the second earthquake (20 January) appears to have come from a different (albeit nearby) fault, with the epicenter/hypocenter situated to the northwest.
A quick search using any of the available news aggregators (Google, Yahoo!, Bing, etc.) for 'second quake Haiti' will result in a large number of articles.
I have created the 2010 Haiti earthquakes article in preparation. I also mistakenly created a 'January 12, 2010 Haiti earthquake' article and copied this article over to it, but have requested speedy deletion because I later found that there is a formal 'move page' function/process already defined. My apologies in advance for the inconvenience. Adams kevin ( talk)
The earthquake in haiti is magnitude 7.0 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.233.190.124 ( talk) 00:22, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
In view of the dual necessities of providing humanitarian relief and security forces to bolster the Haitian police force in the aftermath of the quake, I'm surprised that there hasn't been any edits to the section criticizing U.S. air traffic control. Aid agencies can't operate in unsafe zones and the prospect of looting and other social disorder in the immediate aftermath of the earthquake were contingencies for which U.S. military brass in charge of air traffic control at the airport would have had to plan. I'm surprised no one else has provided this context. Omnia mutantur ( talk) 02:24, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
This is a great human interest story and there are some neat pictures. [22]
"An earthquake survivor in Port-au-Prince who gave birth to a son at the Israeli field hospital on Jan. 17, 2010 decided to name him Israel as a token of appreciation for the country that helped her. "
There should also be more about the help received from other countries such as Italy, mentioned in the section above. Stellarkid ( talk) 16:27, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
Evidence is mounting that a tsunami wave hit after the earthquake, I think this should be included in the article, I will link it with sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SunnieBG ( talk • contribs) 20:57, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
Why couldn't they just airdrop supplies and have soldiers trained in medicine and rescue operations just parachute in? Would that be so difficult when they see that supplies will not get to those trapped in time?-- RossF18 ( talk) 19:49, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
Air dropping aid does not guarantee that food and other relief supplies will reach the people most in need. In many cases it is the strongest and fittest who get to the aid first, and not the sick or injured who most need help and assistance. In a natural disaster such as Cyclone Nargis or conflict like Darfur it?s not only food that is needed but also sophisticated equipment such as clean water and sanitation systems weighing tons as well as highly skilled staff to operate them, all of which cannot be dropped from the sky. If there isn't an aid operation on the ground to distribute the aid, the air drops can exacerbate any tense relations within communities with only the fittest and fastest benefiting.
The Miami Herald is doing that thing with the headlines without explaining anything in text, but they are showing an images of air drops. -- Moni3 ( talk) 00:13, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
After 72 hours, rescue is probably going to be extremely unlikely. Should we start a new section when news starts to be reported from January 16 titled Recovery and aid? -- Moni3 ( talk) 01:05, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
The edit appeared as:
On 20 February 2010, Haitian-American musician Wyclef Jean stated on the Oprah Winfrey Show that he was going to return to Haiti to "...look at the helicopter [situation]", referring to helicopter pilots dropping emergency food and supplies to Haitians from several feet above the ground. [3] Jean continued: "....I'm looking at the helicopter, and I see the way they are throwing food down on my people, and I want them to know the Haitian people are not animals".
Jean's unfounded criticism was likely due to a lack of knowledge on the high risks of decapitations, serious bodily injuries, and helicopter crashes due to main and tail rotor strikes. Such an accident during the delivery of relief supplies to unsupervised landing zones might have also led to the loss of a helicopter and crew and resulted in a suspension of the relief flights.
I removed it for the following reasons, and I was simply unable to rewrite it:
If anybody wants to try to hunt down reliable sources we don't have anything on:
We also have very little detail on the situation outside Port-au-Prince. Yomangani talk 11:24, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
From what Kiss 107.1 FM Cincinnati and Lionel Richie report, Lionel plans to get as many artist at the Grammy Awards he can to sing We are the World for Haiti. Yami ( talk) 21:34, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
It it evident that HAARP ( High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program) was very 'active' preceding the incident. Conspiracy theorist are accusing the facility of causing the incident if not intentionally specifically on the Haiti capital. See Induction Magnetometer |HAARP Induction Magnometer January 11 2010 -- Lastnightat3am ( talk) 02:47, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
interesting to note, that one user advocating exclusion, hasn't ever edited here, until HAARP was mentioned. Oh well, to the rest of you... your fringe argument doesn't work. Maybe you don't realize that the Russian Duma has passed resolutions concerning HAARP as a weapon, one of HAARP's US patent holders, is on record as thinking its a weapon, and even the US state dept is investigating other ionic heaters possibilites as weapons. Go check it out before you tell me it fails fringe... that wp's "possible weapon" section alone is longer than some our sections on this page...
anyways the other two points are RS and UNDUE, and considering one the text's cites is from venezuelan public broadcasting I think we have sufficient RS. As for UNDUE I think you are right as far as the lede goes (as i said then) but I don't think its "undue" weight in one of the subsections, or as a last resort in one of the subarticles... we have thousands and thousands of words on the various pages, so two sentences is basically NEVER undue if it has cites. Fancy-cats-are-happy-cats ( talk) 03:31, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
I would say that the hypothesis that HAARP caused the quake is about as credible as Pat Robertson's hypothesis that the Devil caused the earthquake. I suggest the two should be handled in roughly the same way. 192.12.184.2 ( talk) 15:29, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
I would also note that HAARP's magnetometer shows alot of activity on these days, and does not for an extensive amount of time surrounding this date. If this does not mean HAARP caused it, what other conclusions can be drawn from this evidence. Could it be possible that a solar storm caused the earthquakes? And I think the fact that HAARPs magnetometer's readings are not being investigated reveals something as well. There are many government employed scientists that monitor this on a daily basis, why has this reading in the very least not been explained. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.82.214.74 ( talk) 22:36, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
Ok, but can we maybe agree to a section on the correlation of data from HAARP's own magnetometer on that day in relation to the dates surrounding the Haiti 2010 Earthquake, with no mention of Venezuela's accusations, because the information of activity on HAARP's magnetometer was provided by HAARP, with the emphasis on rare activity on those days. Or a brief explanation linking to a seperate page on HAARP activity in relation to natural disasters or something. Please reference HAARP Magnetometer reading days before quake, hosted on government run site —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.183.28.95 ( talk) 05:36, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
What if it's on the mainstream media? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9QtZkT8OBQ 188.222.76.52 ( talk) 10:57, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
HAARP could have this device, which would indicate that the activity HAARP detected could be in relation to the quake see - U.S. Patent 4980644 - Earthquake detecting magnetometer with movable magnetic compass needle and method of using same - An earthquake predicting magnetometer having a compass assembly with a graduated dial and an adjustbly positionable magnet assembly having magnetic poles oriented opposite the direction markings on the compass dial. The device is oriented to the cardinal points using the compass. Then the magnet is adjusted in proximity to the compass assembly until the magnet counterbalances the magnetosphere of the earth. This leaves the compass needle facing east or west. When the magnetosphere of earth weakens prior to a major seismic event, the compass needle will point to the south on a graduated scale on the dial, indicating an imminent quake of large magnitude.-- Indlebe ( talk) 22:07, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
It appears on this source that the quake took place at 9:53 PM GMT. Can anyone confirm? -- Camilo Sanchez ( talk) 00:17, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Have any cruise ships been affected? I remember having sailed into Grand Turk after the port opened after the recent hurricane (was it Ike?) that had struck there. 68.83.179.156 ( talk) 05:01, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Royal Caribbean has a private resort on Haiti called Labadee. It's a fair distance from the epicentre and from what I've read the initial survey didn't show any damage. The first ship due to arrive after the earthquake is the Independence of the Seas, on Friday, January 15th. They haven't announced any changes to the itinerary as of this point. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.225.137.250 ( talk) 18:29, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
The 1692 Jamaica earthquake article included a link to a journal article in which an earthquake of roughly this size was forecasted in 2006. not sure if it's relevant, or how to handle, so put in some language under Background.Stu 05:01, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
The arrondissement and department articles need to be updated to account for the earthquake, not just the Port-au-Prince city and Haiti articles.
76.66.197.17 ( talk) 12:56, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
The most notable victim of this disaster is the capital. Should we rename it to 2010 Port-au Prince earthquake, something like 1948 Ashgabat earthquake...?-- TheFEARgod ( Ч) 14:18, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
MMI | City | Population |
---|---|---|
X | Petit Goave | 15,000 |
X | Grand Goave | 5,000 |
IX | Gressier | 4,000 |
VIII | Carrefour | 442,000 |
VII | Miragoane | 6,000 |
VII | Port-au-Prince | 1,235,000 |
VII | Delmas 73 | 383,000 |
-- TheFEARgod ( Ч) 14:40, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Some disaster photos would be a good idea, for this and the related articles. 76.66.197.17 ( talk) 15:54, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/01/earthquake_in_haiti.html. I hope to get some personal photos from my parents soon. -- 70.82.4.109 ( talk) 17:12, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
American Airlines and Delta Air Lines have cancelled its flights to Haiti. JetBlue is allowing passengers traveling to Puerto Plata, Santo Domingo, or Santiago in the Dominican Republic whose travels are affected by the quake to rebook at no charge.
[4]
Krenakarore (
talk)
19:55, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
We had a few anon. IP editors warring a little over whether we shoud have links to Aid Organisations. Is this ever done? Personally I can't see the harm, at least while this is a current event(and assuming they are legitimate orgs. like the Red Cross). I suggested they try WikiNews instead. Any opinions? -- 220.101.28.25 ( talk) 08:56, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
How could the Red Cross be a scam?!!
69.171.160.185 ( talk) 09:20, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Can someone add in this South African aid information? I've never edited, so no idea how: http://www.timeslive.co.za/news/article259058.ece —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.208.200.246 ( talk) 15:16, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I think the problem is that we are showing clear bias towards certain charities over others, which is a serious compromise to the standards contributors have set over the years.
Then replace it with something better, don't just leave it with nothing. Lives depend on it.
America is the closest developed nation to the disaster and should therefore be well represented.
69.171.160.147 ( talk) 19:21, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Fanatical and Overzealous Link Deletion: Wikipedia states in it's its guidelines that one should not be fanatical about rules but should look at the overall mission of Wikipedia. Removal of Red Cross Aid links is absurd and fanatical. I have changed the Red Cross link to its DMOZ link. I ask for help from other wiki editors and administrators to stop fanatical and mindless deletion of nonprofit aid links, especially in an emergency. Please help by appealing over the heads of narrow rule interpretations and fanatical link deletions. Relevant nonprofit links were not what Wikipedia had in mind when they talked about reducing links.
I am not saying there should be tons of non-profit links but a few relevant ones (especially using DMOZ) is not a violation of any Wikipedia policy.
69.171.160.147 ( talk) 18:51, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I don't know the precedents or policy details, but I'm say
when you can do good, don't worry about the rules. Put in a factual context if you like: . Numerous aid organizations have set up websites in response to the earthquake including X Y and Z.--
Tznkai (
talk)
22:28, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
A group of vandals now keep removing the Red Cross links from the "International Response" section.
Can anyone help? If any admins see this-- please help, these are calloused and destructive acts of vandalism.
69.171.160.153 ( talk) 01:47, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
Verizon is making it easy for individuals to donate by punching in a text message code "90999" http://www.usatoday.com/tech/webguide/internetlife/2010-01-13-haitisocial_N.htm Ottawahitech ( talk) 17:58, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
With rescue effects still underway and news still too sketchy to be certain, <?>isn’t it too soon to have this article? It’s terribly tasteless (not to mention disrespectful) to be speaking of such an event while the dying are still dying, and at any rate for at least a week or so all news coming out of the event will be unreliable. 174.25.99.225 ( talk) 14:27, 13 January 2010 (UTC)A. REDDSON
Too soon? People will forget about Haiti one week from now. Also, Ppl know that this news is "young" so they should know not to take this seriously. Unless they are really dumb. Phead128 ( talk) 00:23, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
not to soon, an interesting detail is that even with the show of compassion now going on, the first 24 hours the western (and i think worldwide) public has not relevantly been informed as to the scale, nothing for certain ofcourse, but going to bed to perhaps a 100 dead and getting up at estimates reaching a 100k leaves a bitter taste, i just can't belief nothing was obvious the first 24 hours in the information society, likewise comments from twitter etc., i saw, never seemed to acces the scale in a rational manner. much could be improved for early reactions, also by correspondents locally giving more descriptive reporting. don't go it's pov., it is at least very curious it took 24 hours to allow the worlds public an assesment of the scales, and the aid's organisations responses a day late should not be allowed to gain credibility from that, whence otherways the next incident will also be smoothed untill it is late. 24.132.171.225 ( talk) 14:42, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
Can someone explain how Venezuela was affected? Only the infobox states that it was affected by the earthquake, while there is no other mentions of it or references. -- 12george1 ( talk) 15:09, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I would suggest splitting the reactions section into a seperate article. I think as the article's content grows splitting this section into its own article would make this article more navigatable. See Reactions to the 2008 Mumbai attacks for a similar example of a reactions section splitting off to form a seperate article. Burningview ✉ 16:38, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Should this be included in the article? USAtoday has this info at http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2010-01-12-Haiti_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip INFORMATION: Americans seeking news about family members in Haiti can call 1-888-407-4747, set up by the U.S. Department of State. Ottawahitech ( talk) 18:07, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I don't want to create a stir here, but I think this section is quite tasteless as it stands for a couple of related reasons: 1) It breaks casualties down by nation of origin (complete with flags!) which just seems unnecessary at this point; 2) In so doing, it gives far more attention to non-Haitian deaths, even though 99% of the people who died are undoubtedly Haitian. Currently we mention two Haitian people who were killed in the quake. Do we seriously believe it's important to mention that the Taiwan ambassador to Haiti "suffered broken bones and was taken to a hospital" when we're likely looking at 100,000+ deaths here? I think this section is completely embarrassing and plan to basically scrap it (I'd reduce mentions of foreign casualties to one sentence for the time being) in the near future unless someone explains why we give such undue weight to the deaths of non-Haitians. -- Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 19:09, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
why did someome remove the notice re. the death of the archbishop? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.162.215 ( talk) 19:34, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I disagree. Casualties are casualties, and a breakdown by nation is customary in articles about major disasters. I concur that the Taiwanese ambassador breaking several bones is not worthy of a mention here. In the future, as more details become available, 'Foreign deaths' should become a subsection, with the main 'Casualties' section focusing on the disastrous loss of live throughout the country. As of now, however, it's easier to obtain information on foreign victims, until major news organizations and governments inform us of the casualties among locals. Missionary ( talk) 20:20, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I think there are likely more foriegn casualties than listed here, but I think the point of this section as it stands is to offer info on known casualties, I don't think that by listing foriegn casualties we minimize in any way the devistating loss of Haitian life, and I am sure this will be expounded on significantly as news becomes available. I do think that in future, once more details are available, that 'Foreign casualties' should indeed become a subsection. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adbells1 ( talk • contribs) 21:10, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
The estimated death toll will depend on the exposed population, about 4 million, the building collapse rate, looks to be about 30% and the collapse rate to the fatality rate about 10% is a good guess in the epicentral area. The people in the US gov planning the response need this data. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Macneacail (
talk •
contribs)
05:13, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
I believe he means 4,000,000 X .3 X .1 = 120,000 estimated "fatalities," with many more "casualties." I am not sure, however; everyone is waiting for more substantive information about the scope of this disaster. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.235.72.139 ( talk) 13:02, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
agree, yesterday it was so distastefull today i didn't even take the pain of looking at it, 2 named haitians and a nobel price laureate, as if i even want to know that when there are 1000s people dead. 24.132.171.225 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:46, 15 January 2010 (UTC).
Just giving you all an updated wire: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N15143632.htm The Haitian government has buried 50k, they're expecting up to 200k. I tried editing the section but it wouldn't stick. So, I'm going to leave it in your hands. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.50.61.58 ( talk) 04:39, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
Another thing, the Haitian government has stated that it has buried 100,000 people. This should remove the Red Cross estimate of 45-50k. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.50.61.58 ( talk) 02:03, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
I have been listening to CTV News Channel about their Haiti earthquake coverage and they mentioned a couple points that I could not source on the Internet. I trust what they are saying is true, despite no website source. Two points they have made are that fraud telemarketers have been calling people to extort money from people and also a report of a missing former Member of Parliament whose name I cannot find. NorthernThunder ( talk) 19:42, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Please consider adding the following somewhere: Televangelist Pat Robertson referenced the Haitian Revolution's vodou origins as the explanation for the 2010 Haiti earthquake, when he told viewers of his Christian Broadcasting Network, "[S]omething happened a long time ago in Haiti, and people might not want to talk about it, they were under the heel of the French, uh, you know, Napoleon the third and whatever, and they got together and swore a pact to the devil, they said, we will serve you, if you get us free from the Prince, true story. And so the devil said, 'OK, it's a deal.' And they kicked the French out, the Haitians revolted and got themselves free, and ever since they have been cursed by one thing after the other, desperately poor." http://www.salon.com/news/haiti/index.html?story=/news/2010/01/13/haiti_robertson Salon.com - 'Robertson: Haiti had "pact with devil"' —Preceding unsigned comment added by MisterJayEm ( talk • contribs) 19:59, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
How are we putting together the list? Do we go on notable charities which have appealed or only if the appeal by the charity has had third party coverage? Any http://www.soschildrensvillages.org.uk/charity-news/Haitiappeal and http://shelterbox.org/ are missing along with many others. -- BozMo talk 20:52, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
After the tsunami, a separate article was created for donations. As I recall, it was protected from editing. We should create a separate article and allow only administrators to edit it. There are many reputable charities that should be mentioned. Charities can be added to the talk page and an administrator can check for reputability. I will be adding a news link that warns about scams. -- T1980 ( talk) 23:55, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm just repeating myself, since this seems to be where the discussion is happening:"I don't know the precedents or policy details, but I'm say when you can do good, don't worry about the rules. Put in a factual context if you like: . Numerous aid organizations have set up websites in response to the earthquake including X Y and Z.-- Tznkai ( talk) 22:28, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
-- Tznkai ( talk) 01:40, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
Hello! Okay, this seems to be the right section to put this: There has been a call on twitter to create a relief wiki for Haiti:
http://twitter.com/BENatDAP/status/7775787156 Is anyone here up to that challenge? Because I'm totally not.
Evening Scribe (
talk)
05:53, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
I know that it's a bit early for this discussion, but I fear that this page will grow quite a bit. Does anyone object to me setting up automatic archiving for this page using MiszaBot? Unless otherwise agreed, I would set it to archive threads that have been inactive for 14 days and keep the last ten threads.-- Oneiros ( talk) 22:37, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
About half of this article is flag icons. Okay not half but a lot. Is there a reason this is desirable? Do we really want an article on a horrifying tragedy in Haiti to be covered with a bunch of flag icons from around the world? Is this standard practice for these kind of articles?
The problem beyond just the flags is that about half the article text (for real this time) is devoted to what other countries said about the tragedy and not the tragedy itself. What the other countries say and offer in the way of help is extremely predictable (if no doubt appreciated), but we seem to be on a path where we'll have a statement from the president or foreign minister of every nation in the UN eventually. Is there a way to get this under control by changing the format of this section? I'm wondering if editors who have worked on these "unfolding disaster" articles before have any wisdom to offer here in terms of preventing them from becoming an endless list of responses/reactions. It's completely insane that we only have one paragraph (in the "aftermath" section) on what actually happened to Haiti and Haitians and five times that much on things like "Schools help donate with bake sales, and fundraisers" and "A team of 23 rescue workers and two specially trained dogs will be sent." Obviously a lot of people will make drive-by edits and want to make sure that their nation's efforts to help are recognized (which is perfectly understandable) but we need to rein that in. -- Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 00:32, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
I'll tell you what I don't like about the current flag usage. What do flags indicate? Do flags represent the governments of countries, or the people of those countries? Should I be expecting to see donations and help provided by people generously and voluntarily, or the actions of leaders eager to express their status in world affairs? – RVJ ( talk) 05:29, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
well actually yes, the usual article of a current event is mutilated that way, usually with proud expressions of condolences of non affected bobo's elsewhere.you might as well include the line: standard rhetorics of sorrow have been expressed by all trade partners that left them to poor to fence for themselves. 24.132.171.225 ( talk) 14:50, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
It says, "Haitian president Preval later confirmed that Annabi died in the earthquake. Annabi was meeting with a Chinese delegation at the time of the disaster." Was he there or not? This part of the article doesn't make sense. Abce2 ( talk) 02:35, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
Sean.hoyland - talk 03:15, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
UNOSAT have published their first preliminary analysis of Satellite-Identified IDP Concentrations, Road & Bridge Obstacles in Central Port-au-Prince. See EQ-2010-000009-HTI. Sean.hoyland - talk 05:51, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
I can't make an edit without getting a (sometimes multiple) edit conflicts. Sorry, just expressing my frustration. Grsz 11 04:23, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
Wouldn't "2010 Haitian Earthquake" be better than "Haiti Earthquake" for name of the article.-- 174.103.224.13 ( talk) 05:18, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
Can we add this image to the article? I don't know about the legal copyright requirements, but maybe someone here does and can add it with the proper tags. NorthernThunder ( talk) 06:05, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
http://www.mofa.go.jp/mofaj/press/danwa/22/dga_0113b.html says there are 20 Japanese in Haiti and all are connected to the Japanese Embassy there. The MOFA is calling them missing until information is received from them. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 06:21, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
What's with the removal of the 500,000 estimate? Has the source retracted the guess?-- Metallurgist ( talk) 07:25, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
BBC today on the news said 50,000 dead so far. 86.16.163.55 ( talk) 18:05, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
I think it would be interesting to know the total monetary aid amount Haiti has received in USD. -- Erroneuz1 ( talk) 07:28, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
According to UOL, USD 151 million. Missionary ( talk) 11:37, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
Gordon brown of the UK just gave 6 million GBP (~10 or ~11 million dollars i think?) 86.16.163.55 ( talk) 18:07, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
I propose we move the International response section to a new article. NorthernThunder ( talk) 07:32, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
I post at a site that monitors world-wide disasters (mostly medical) and they are stunned with the fast and accurate job that Wikipedia has done with this earthquake. So am I - it's pretty amazing! Gandydancer ( talk) 11:42, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
There are some decent pictures ie Presidential 'Palace', here -- 220.101.28.25 ( talk) 12:30, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
I think we have enough pictures now that we can figure out a good one to go into the info box, in part in order to get the earthquake template to stop stop adding the category about the article needing a picture. :) The best one that I see in the article itself is IMHO File:Haiti earthquake damage overhead.jpg. Does anyone have any other candidates for a lead image? - TexasAndroid ( talk) 14:04, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
The article should start to form context for the rebuilding and political/economic issues in Haiti. For a recent event, editors who add information to this article should peek in at 2008 Sichuan earthquake. There are already international political issues as CNN reported that the first country to assist was the Dominican Republic, which has eased tensions between the two countries. A parallel with the "tofu dregs buildings" in China is the same lax construction standards in Haiti due to its significant poverty issues. Plus, in the second story, a guy named Hamburger is quoted. Surely that is some kind of value... -- Moni3 ( talk) 14:22, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
This section and the table appears to be original research and doesn't cite any sources, just states which sources the data was derived from, with no indication that anyone other than the author has done the derivation. -- 86.189.13.123 ( talk) 14:55, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
The lede references the USGS when referring to aftershocks in the area, but this page lists notable quakes in the last 7 days, and thus will be obsolete in a week. Is there something more permanent we can use? Redoubts ( talk) 14:59, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
I just split the aftermath and casualties sections and created a page for Casualties of the 2010 Haiti earthquake. I half to travel out of town, so I'll leave the aftermath editing up to someone else. David Straub ( talk) 00:56, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
The sourced, and brief, mention that this is the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere is directly pertinent to their ability to cope with the emergency and provides valuable background as to why they are having difficulty coping. In my view it should remain though I have moved it to Background from the lead. Bridgeplayer ( talk) 16:29, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
I don't believe listing non-notable individuals killed is particularly useful or appropriate, as it seems to give those individuals much more weight than the thousands upon thousands of Haitians that will be determined killed. Notable individuals are of course worthy, like the Brazilian doctor and perhaps the Canadian professor, but other individuals are not. Perhaps when we have more definitive information, we can say X Canadians were killed, but that is for later. Grsz 11 17:29, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
In this section...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Haiti_earthquake#The_Loss
Do we really need to have it with its present content? It seems very editorial in nature, rather than presenting factual information (virtually all of what's presented is impossible to cite). -- 98.193.140.235 ( talk) 03:10, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
Hi- new to posting or talking on Wiki and want to comment on the relief efforts discussed in this article that Wycleff has given over the years. There are external links people can visit to find out how to help and support the people devasted by the recent earthquake in Haiti. Recommend those who want to support and give aid to do so through the work and support of Wycleff.
Lealani33 ( talk) 06:43, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
Is there an article on Port-au-Prince's seaport? If not, such an article should be created. 76.66.197.17 ( talk) 13:33, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
The Russian Map is pretty nice... should ours be like it? 76.66.197.17 ( talk) 13:43, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
Somebody took out all mention of Topos de Tlatelolco in the 14 January section of the article. While I expected it to be modified, I didnt expect it to disappear completely. This is an all-volunteer group from Mexico trained especially for rescue and recovery from collapsed buildings and have been involved with disasters in 22 countries. Deserves a mention.... I cant find how the whole thing disappears since early today, however. Thelmadatter ( talk) 15:31, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
CBC and CTV are now reporting 1,415 Canadians are now missing in Haiti. [10] -- Kuzwa ( talk) 15:47, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
See this. Directing to what looks like a collection of headlines underneath a lot of advertising. Looks like spam. User who added is Earthquake News Headlines ( talk · contribs). -- Moni3 ( talk) 15:55, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
TSR.ch in an article [11] reported that "...l'université de l'Agence universitaire de la Francophonie (AUF) ont été également été détruits." I checked the AUF website and found that they have an institute called "L'Institut de la Francophonie pour la Gestion dans la Caraïbe (IFGCar)", and it is also called "L'Institut Aimé Cessaire" [12]. The addresses of the Caribbean regional office of AUF and IFGCar are the same, and from this article [13] it is reported that the Institut Aimé Césaire was damaged.
Despite of the information above, I decided to change the "Caribbean regional office of AUF" in the list of damaged buildings in the main article to "Institute Aimé Césaire", for this information is more direct and relies less on inference. Qrfqr ( talk) 17:56, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
Is there value in developing a template for future disaster articles to assist with managing the development of an article from one day to the next? Something like a FAQ template on the talk page that will clarify issues and set rules such as:
This article is about a disaster that has recently occurred. Editors contributing to this article should
Intended to be kept on the article talk page for one or two weeks. I'm not so great with templates and stuff, otherwise I'd make one to make it look official. Thoughts? Suggestions? --
Moni3 (
talk)
19:38, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
As more images become available, it is inevitable that they will be added to the article. Please ensure that the article adheres to the Manual of Style for images, which can be found here.
Please avoid sandwiching text, especially with images that are purely decorative. There is a sandwiching issue already in the Geology section, but both these images are important for the understanding of the earthquake.
If there is a decision between stacking images on the right, or sandwiching, consider removing an image in a section, or placing them in a gallery at the bottom of the article.
Please make sure all images are in the public domain, and have sourcing, date, and author information on the image pages. -- Moni3 ( talk) 04:51, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
I don't believe that it belongs in the article, but information on and photos of Haiti's National Penitentiary can be found here: http://sciencespeaks.wordpress.com/2009/07/31/a-mission-possible-one-groups-crusade-to-save-inmates-from-hiv-tb-in-developing-world-prisons/ (The prison was destroyed in the earthquake) Michaelh2001 ( talk) 06:33, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
I know this came up earlier but it might be good to choose and monitor the external links a bit more carefully. I've just removed a link to an obvious scam but given the level of activity on the article, some things like that might slip through. Given the high traffic of Wikipedia, the last thing we want is to inadvertently send readers to such sites. In any case, to all people who have the article watchlisted, please keep an eye out for this! Pichpich ( talk) 17:26, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
Somebody please fix the article. I came in to check the page and someone vandalized the article and removed everything. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.196.167.97 ( talk) 17:55, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
Semi-protect the article! DavidHøstbo ( talk) 18:13, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
I cannot edit semiprotected articles, so please fix:
The amphibious assault ship USS Bataan has also been deplored to Haiti, along with two dock landing ships."
thank you
96.243.205.39 (
talk)
19:20, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
Please Add New Figures:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60E5EC20100115 Haitian authorities have buried 40,000 bodies and believe another 100,000 people probably died in this week's earthquake, a senior official told Reuters on Friday.
Other source for same info above:
http://cbs13.com/national/haiti.earthquake.survivors.2.1429917.html http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N1552739.htm http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3834995,00.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.20.55.87 ( talk) 19:31, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
The heading of this photo is misleading. This photo reads: "Victims from Haiti earthquake are unloaded at U.S. Naval Hospital Guantanamo Bay, Cuba" but it should read, "American victims from Haiti earthquake are unloaded at U.S. Naval Hospital Guantanamo Bay, Cuba," as the U.S. is only airlifting out American civilians and not Haitians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.71.14.183 ( talk) 20:30, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
This article now has a section entitled "Recovery" which relates that two former US presidents will mobilize to coordinate donation efforts. How is this any different from the "Response" section, which also depicts efforts being undertaken by the international community to recover the country from disaster?
The entire "Recovery" section is redundant and should be scrapped IMO. As conditions in Haiti improve, this section would be useful in describing how the country overcame its current situation. It's still too early for that, however. Missionary ( talk) 22:06, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
I notice the page was moved without discussion. The previous title was not grammatically incorrect and was consistent with other articles such as 1997 Iran earthquake, 2003 Bam earthquake and 1906 San Francisco earthquake. -- Pontificalibus ( talk) 23:33, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
It is odd that Wikipedia administrators endorse incorrect grammar. :- ) ( talk) 23:44, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
Can we make this official now so we can set one consistent date format throughout the article?
Day month (European) or month day (American)? (Citations excepted for now.) -- Moni3 ( talk) 23:38, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
Only now have I realized that the American system is not followed by Britain. I vote for American, since that's where most visitors to this page likely come from. Missionary ( talk) 23:42, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(dates_and_numbers)#Retaining_the_existing_format. Tony (talk) 02:13, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
There seems to be quite a few external links, and there's a note warning that it needs cleaning up. But I can't see any that should be removed... what do others think? Can we remove that warning? - Tbsdy lives (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) talk 03:50, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
It needs to be split into a new article ASAP. It will pile up with new information in the coming weeks just like the articles on events in Iran and Honduras from last year. I don't want to get into persistent reverts over this, so I'm recommending this on the talk page for posterity. -- Toussaint ( talk) 18:09, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
A summary has been replaced with citations and a hatnote to
Timeline of rescue efforts after the 2010 Haiti earthquake, which I have to note has no lead, and needs some formatting assistance. --
Moni3 (
talk)
19:35, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
Someone made a big ol' boo boo... So, I fixed for you all.
Good luck in the recovery.
-Pat
K8cpa ( talk) 00:14, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
So the article did mention that Haiti was a poor country, which seems relevant to its ability to handle a disaster. Evercat ( talk) 23:52, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
And I heard on the BBC Two programme Newsnight on January 13 that Haiti is the poorest country in the Western hemisphere - I had heard BBC radio news making similar claims that day. ACEOREVIVED ( talk) 00:23, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
they make an average $256 a year, i think that would be a good illustrative figure. 24.132.171.225 ( talk) 14:33, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
I would like to add a section on how the online software community has really come together to aid the response. Three projects in particular are especially noteworthy:
Disclaimer: I am part of the Sahana team working on the response TimClicks ( talk) 05:16, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
Hi! I'm not a regular here, so I'm not sure what the editing etiquette is. I came across the reference to 'road blocks out of dead bodies' in the 'Conditions in the Aftermath' section. This seems highly implausible to me. More likely bodies were piled up in one place because they had to be put somewhere. As far as I can see was only reported by one journalist, quoted in the Telegraph article (Shaul Schwarz, a photographer for TIME magazine, said he saw at least two roadblocks formed with bodies of earthquake victims and rocks). Is there any way Wikipedia can verify this? Maybe if the roadblocks were seen by another journo? Otherwise I would remove the sentence. 79.239.238.141 ( talk) 10:56, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
I propose that this category be restricted to "victims" (killed, wounded, trapped in rubble). Currently, as it is formulated, it is overly broad, and just about anyone could be categorized into it, like President Clinton, General Secretary Ban Ki Moon, Sanjay Gupta, any politician voicing support for Haiti, any public figure promoting donations to relief funds, etc. 76.66.197.17 ( talk) 11:25, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
Discussion should occur at Category talk:People associated with the 2010 Haiti earthquake#Proposal - restriction of scope
This quote is not supported by the reference: Elisabeth Byrs of the UN called it the worst disaster the United Nations has experienced because the organizational structures of the UN in Haiti and the Haitian government were destroyed.[16]
It seems an odd thing to say, and I'd like to remove it if a reference is not provided. Thoughts? Gandydancer ( talk) 13:32, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
The following line seems to jump to a conclusion:
"Slow distribution of resources and the absence of any central authority in the days after the earthquake resulted in violence..."
How can we say for certain that a lack of a central authority leads to violence? Plenty of central authorities around the world become involved in violence.
It goes on to say:
"At least one looter was killed as Haitian police fired upon hundreds," ... so the police are in fact contributing to violence themselves.
A replacement phrase might be, "Loss of social cohesion and general insecurity following the earthquake resulted in violence..."
But actually the whole aspect of social re-organisation following the disaster is quite interesting. The article goes on to say that women have been seen marching through the streets singing; so that is a spontaneous event which is quite independent of central authority which is providing a sense of social cohesion amongst the survivors.
I'm not saying that a lack of central authority has not led to violence, but that the statement is not a factual one; it is speculation. If we could say "media reports suggest that a lack of a central authority has resulted in violence" I would be happy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.241.80.116 ( talk) 13:40, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
In Conditions in the aftermath, this article states, "Even Haitian President René Préval was unsure of where he was going to sleep after his home was destroyed," and gives as a reference "Charles, Jacqueline, Clark, Lesley, Robles, Frances (14 January 2010). Supplies begin to arrive in Haiti as aftershocks shake stunned nation, The Miami Herald. Retrieved on 14 January 2010." I don't see anything in that article to support that claim, however. Perhaps I am just missing something? — Bkell ( talk) 13:43, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
Lack of clarity. Source: Prime Minister Jean-Max Bellerive said the government will begin busing people outside Port-au-Prince as early as Wednesday, while relocating homeless people to spontaneous camps established by residents within the metropolitan area where distribution of aid can be focused and some measure of sanitation provided.
That says to me that people in Port-au-Prince would be bused out. Others who are homeless would be relocated to the makeshift camps that will be cleaned up and used (fortified was my original verb) as central aid locations. The article says something different now. -- Moni3 ( talk) 19:20, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
People are trying to plan for event. There are about 6 people in the world who can estimate a death toll based on scant information. If Wikipedia is not the place to get it out then so be it, but the likely toll will be 250,000.
Good luck.
John Nichols
article says: " with as many as 100,000 deaths likely, according to the prime minister."
The BBC and the red cross just said on the 6pm news today that its estimated at 50,000 dead, and over 150,000 injured. 86.16.163.55 ( talk) 18:05, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
my bet is these figures will remain (close to) future official statements, rightfully so or not. personally i guess it actually happens to be on the higher side , else they wouldn't have hesitated the reporting so long. 24.132.171.225 ( talk) 14:54, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
The current death toll is "So far, the total deaths has been counted at 5,000,000,000." something tells me that 5 Billion is incorrect, can somebody fix this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.193.229.2 ( talk) 19:56, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
Magnitude 7.0 is a big earthquake but not a huge one. This one caused unprecedented loss of life merely because of its location: right near the capital of a poor and overpopulated country with nonexistent building code enforcement. There was a 6.5 a few days earlier in the United States which caused only minimal damage. Timothy Horrigan ( talk) 06:26, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
Whats with all the love for Wyclef, Cuba, Qatar, and Dom rep in the wikipedia articles on this disaster??? seems disproportionate to their impact or relevance. - 63.239.65.9 ( talk) 17:32, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
The quantity of mentions of Israel is really disporportionate (really? a "ZAKA" quote comparing things with the Holocaust?). There is only one passing mention to the Argentinian hospital, the only one working during the first days after the quake, also with a lot of Cuban doctors well before the US decided to send its soldiers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.70.18.2 ( talk) 12:14, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
According to http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3836254,00.html, "CNN reported that Israel is the only state so far to have sent a field hospital equipped with all that is required for surgical operations. Doctors from various missions send patients requiring surgery to Israel's makeshift hospital, particularly those whose condition is critical, the news network said. According to the report, other field hospitals contain no more than stretcher beds and medical teams who administer first aid, and they are not prepared for complex surgery" I didn't find the actual report (possibly video only, but for those who don't consider a major Israeli newspaper a reliable source, I did find the following corroboration ( http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/18/haiti.earthquake/index.html): "At a U.S. medical facility, doctors were asking why they didn't have critical equipment or the ability to perform surgeries, while a field hospital set up by Israel did." It appears that the Israeli contribution is of particular significance. So who wants to update the article? Pedantrician ( talk) 22:12, 19 January 2010 (UTC)Pedantrician
Well, "Shabbat from Hell" doesn't sound as the best bit we can get. The "coniditions in the aftermath" contains mentions about the Dominican Republic, the US and an Israeli. It reeks of hasbara, especially when they were not there in the immediate aftermath 200.70.18.2 ( talk) 16:07, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
Why is the destruction of the UN headquarters headlined in this article: I think it does a huge disrespect to the 100,000s of ordinary Haitians killed in this disaster, to pick out the deaths of UN staff members as worthy of special mention in the opening paragraph. Are these lives worth more? This must be removed immediately! Orthorhombic ( talk) 10:39, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
It's probably time to start expanding the lead, but keeping it tame. Everyone with a keyboard or a microphone will have some weird comparison (the 1906 San Francisco earthquake of 2010! in Haiti!), and every natural disaster according to anyone who has ever seen it apparently looks like a war zone (although, oddly, many of the people making these comparisons have never seen a war zone).
The lead should be trim and reflect what has been covered. A new paragraph should discuss the aggravation to the destruction, which is Haiti's poverty leading to cheaply made buildings, the response to the disaster, and the impediments to aid reaching people. Thoughts? -- Moni3 ( talk) 13:19, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
Damage from the earthquake was catastrophic. It occurred very close to a city with a large population. Haiti's political and economic infrastructure is vulnerable and government was unable to respond with authority. Haiti's poverty aggravated building construction, making structures weaker and more susceptible to collapse. MINUSTAH forces that were charged with maintaining order were themselves severely disrupted and rendered ineffective. The international military operation of administering rescue and relief to damaged regions was hampered by disorganization.
(from the intro) In what way did the UN experience a disaster? The UN has nothing to do with Haiti any more than it does with any other country. Why are they even mentioned in the intro? JettaMann ( talk) 16:14, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
First, what is this source? http://www.narconews.com/ Who prints it? Is it fact checked? Is it user generated? It does not appear to be reliable. It's the source for this statement: The roof of the facility reportedly collapsed and caught fire, and family members have been unable to find their incarcerated relatives.
Can anyone find the name of the prison? I have not been able to. -- Moni3 ( talk) 19:02, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
I think discussion of media coverage should be expanded in the article. Certainly some broadcasters, CNN in particular, are now rivalling 9/11 in their round-the-clock coverage of the disaster (perhaps only the Katrina coverage comes close). There has also been documented examples of media becoming directly involved in rescue/communication efforts. Dr. Sanjay Gupta of CNN was widely reported as doing medical procedures when not on the air, and was the only doctor left behind in one compound when the others were ordered out late last week. Canadian journalist Tom Clark of CTV was able to track down the mother of a Canadian viewer during his time in Haiti. And there was also a report that someone was able to confirm their loved one was alive because that person appeared in the background of a shot on Larry King Live. There are undoubtedly others - enough for a section and possibly a spin-off article. 68.146.81.123 ( talk) 20:54, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
-- Moni3 ( talk) 06:31, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
There seems to be bias in the photos. All photos in the Response and Rescue sections show only US rescue or medical teams, can't we find some from other countries? -- Pontificalibus ( talk) 23:25, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
Add Sam Dixon (humanitarian) to the casualty list.
He was the head of the humanitarian relief agency of The United Methodist Church.
http://new.gbgm-umc.org/umcor/newsroom/releases/archives2010/unitedmethodistreliefexecutivedies/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.230.152.17 ( talk) 05:14, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
Concrete Borer for rescue
What is needed is to pre-position on a regional basis, as well as per earthquake country, a portable Concrete Borer. Concrete is porous and weak, and can easily be drilled with a 2 foot wide bit bore, gears, and electric motor, and generator. Also acetylene cutting torch for cutting through iron rod reinforcers. Perhaps liquifier and suction for concrete dust. When cries of ahwie are heard, one could drill; concrete would present no barrier; awkwardness of heavy equipment would not be needed; since the instrument of hope (100s) is there. Simple engineering and manufacture for the world community, and for the next disaster. An outsourcing project for any government or foundation? Zanardm ( talk) 08:32, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
The speed, breadth and depth of this important article is madly impressive. Kudos to all involved. This is a lot of people who are now better informed and may be able to contribute. Fainites barley scribs 10:16, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
FWIW although it is OR so I am not putting it in, the claim that the number of orphans will rise looks a little rocky. There are likely to be 5-10,000 children orphaned by the earthquake [19] but if 3% of the population has been killed probably 10,000 existing orphans will have been killed...miserable of course but perhaps an overall decrease. -- BozMo talk 17:29, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
Quick public service announcement: the Geological Society of America has compiled a number of papers related to the Haiti earthquake, and has them currently available for free download. Awickert ( talk) 23:35, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
The Commander-in-chief of Canada, Michaëlle Jean is Haitian, perhaps some of her statements should be included as a foreign-(pseudo)-head-of-state and prominent international Haitian? 76.66.197.17 ( talk) 08:35, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
If you want an actual Canadian perspective, I can tell you that it would be highly unusual to refer to our Governor General as the Canadian Commander-in-Chief. The Governor General in Canada doesn't have the same authorities as the American President in terms of being able to order our armed forces to do anything. That powers rests with the Canadian Parliament. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.225.137.250 ( talk) 17:14, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
Okay, someone used the wrong title, but is the rest of the point well-taken? rakslice ( talk) 08:28, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
This section has a very succinct explanation in prose and three images, making it crowded and difficult to read, which is a shame. I was trying yesterday to figure out how to put the captions on the side of File:Haiti USGS body wave moment tensor arrows.svg, like in a table or something, but I'm not good at it and nothing seemed to work.
Can we make a decision about which images should be placed in this section? It's getting crowded. -- Moni3 ( talk) 19:06, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
This is what I tried to prevent with splitting the section into a new article, since the article's getting congested again. I would at least ask those who want to contribute to the coverage of rescue actions to place the information in the relevant dedicated article rather than congest this section further with ongoing info. -- Toussaint ( talk) 01:16, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
There are conflicting reports of the security situation. The Guardian's blog says
"The debate over the extent of violence in Haiti continues to polarise opinions. Dr Evan Lyon of Partners in Health, working at the General Hospital in Port-Au-Prince, told Democracy Now: 'There are no security issues.' One thing that it is important for people to understand is misinformation and rumours and - at the bottom of the issue - racism have slowed the recovery efforts of this hospital"
Can anyone find reliable sources for the claim that the security sitaution is being overstated and causing problems in delivering aid? -- Pontificalibus ( talk) 16:35, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
I really really would like to see this used somehow... its an important topic which ties into the region's history and it does have precedents... so anyways the rule of thumb we used across the wildly contentious articles related to the 08 elections, was that if it was a blog from an RS, then that was considered ok as long as it wasn't an editorial type blog... so I honestly think the first quote is fully citeable and it uses the more direct language I would like to see. Honestly if the R-word is showing up in UK press then we need to respond... that word has every place in this article if its from an RS. Fancy-cats-are-happy-cats ( talk) 05:18, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Why did so many buildings collapse? I can't seem to find information on WHY a 7.0 m earthquake would destroy entire cities. I grew up in southern California and certainly experienced 7.0 earthquakes. While very intense, frightening and certain to cause some level of damage, whole neighborhoods didn't collapse on top of people. I realize this is anectdotal, but I can't help but wonder. Is Haiti's poverty partly to blame for poorly funded/built infrastructure? Where is this discussed? It should be discussed at length, I would think. - Laikalynx ( talk) 17:58, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
--It is because Haiti never had good infrastrucure/buildings-they were mostly NOT earthquake ready. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
209.253.69.197 (
talk)
05:10, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
I just wanted to clear up a syntax mistake in citations to avoid...when there is a foreign language involved in a reference, for consistency sake, you should cite it like this:
The very common mistake in this case is writing the following:
The latter, in my opinion, is not what the cite template says, so it is not correct, even if you are citing it by hand (which I am totally not capable of doing :-P).
If you have any comments about this or you believe otherwise, feel free to respond to this. Thanks! -- Whaatt uSpeak what iDone 01:00, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Somebody recently (re)created List of 2010 Haiti earthquake aftershocks. The article currently has essentially no substantial info but that could be fixed. The question is: do we want to build this separately or do we want to keep this info in the main article? I'm not too sure myself so comments and suggestions are welcome. Pichpich ( talk) 14:09, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
There is a large number of related pics on Commons now, I believe we could rotate between with some regularity. Missionary ( talk) 16:23, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
The Italian government immediately sent two military transport planes that used to bring medicines, food, a field hospital and the emergency medical team. Italy send an aircraft carrier with 920 military personnel aboard to Haiti to assist in rescue and reconstruction work following the Jan. 12 earthquake that devastated the country. The Cavour sail from Italy on Jan. 19, with a stop planned in Brazil to pick up Brazilian military medical staff, the Italian military general staff said in a statement. The Cavour transport Italian Navy helicopters, tracked and wheeled Army vehicles, and hospital facilities that offer two operating theaters. A company of Army engineers is included in the contingent, as well as 550 Cavour crew members and medical staff, and force protection personnel from the Navy, Army and Air Force. The Haiti mission is the Cavour's first since it gained full operational capability last June. The 27,600-metric-ton vessel is 237 meters long and 39 meters wide. The Cavour can generate enough electricity for 6,000 homes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9eUN0DLseY
Italy intends to cancel the debt the Caribbean country owes it, valued at over 40 million euros. Italy will also send a further contingent of 200 members of its military Carabinieri police corps to Haiti to help ensure security for the distribution of aid. The Carabinieri would be part of an EU police force to restore order and end looting on the island.
Humanitarian assistance of Italy is second only to the United States. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.15.194.19 ( talk) 16:39, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
(previously posted in the village pump)
I started a wikicommunity help action at the Dutch wiki, and imagine that we can help on all wiki's as humans helping humans. We can support all victims in Haiti by placing a small 'banner' on our User and Talk pages. I used this one:
Code:
<div style="margin:1; background:#074074; font-family: sans-serif; font-size:100%; font-weight:bold; border:1px solid #cef2e0; text-align:center; color:#FFFFFF; padding-left:0.4em; padding-top: 0.2em; padding-bottom: 0.2em;"><Big>I'd like to express my support, my compassion and my humanity to the victims of the human catastrophe in Haiti.<br/>'''''Please, donate to your local Aid Agency or the RED CROSS'''''</BIG></div>
I think from the humanitarian perspective we now need to support all those there suffering from this horrible catastroph. Let's step a bit over the 'wiki-only' horizon, and let's do a bit of support where we can! I hope this initiative will get noticed and followed by all other users! (You also might use other places like Facebook, Myspace etc for this!)
Yours Sincerely, Tjako ( talk) 22:58, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
Do we use this or not? Need consensus... Modernist ( talk) 00:24, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
Voodoo priests in Haiti objected to proposed mass burials of the deceased, because they believed it would cause them to return as zombies. [2]
Keep Yes we should use it. It's relevant and well sourced. And it helps to show how scientifically backward their culture is, which is one reason why their buildings were so weak in the first place. Grundle2600 ( talk) 03:24, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
'Keep: Voodooism as a religion is as valid to those who follow it as Christianity, Islaam, or any other. Regards, Lynbarn ( talk) 16:26, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
On the other hand, the Christians and Muslims I've known would not object to mass burial as an essential public health measure in a disaster. I'm just sayin'. 192.12.184.2 ( talk) 15:20, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
I added this, and it has been removed. I'd like to discuss it because I think it has value in the article, and it may need to be rewritten: Inured by generations of political instability and corruption, many Haitians took the lack of authority in stride, using the Creole proverb "Grés kochon ki kwit kochon'" or "the pork has to cook by its own fat" to explain that they had to take care of themselves.
I've read in several sources that many Haitians are taking the lack of organization and government ineptitude in stride. I cited only one source, but I believe I could find more. I have to go to bed, so I can't figure it out now, but for those of you working on the article if you'd like to give your thoughts, I'd appreciate it. -- Moni3 ( talk) 04:22, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
The passage is an amalgamation of ideas: decades of political instability, poverty, unreliable civil services such as potable water and electricity, and many Haitians are not waiting for international rescue efforts to come to their aid:
The Miami Herald report, with the Creole proverb, just states these ideas very succinctly. -- Moni3 ( talk) 13:54, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
-- Pontificalibus ( talk) 19:04, 19 January 2010 (UTC)The Miami Herald reported that many Haitians took the lack of authority in stride. Men coordinated to act as security, while groups of women attempted to take care of food and hygiene necessities. One self-appointed security guard used the Creole proverb "Grés kochon ki kwit kochon'" or "the pork has to cook by its own fat" to explain that they had to take care of themselves."
Ok, I'm thinking about this. Wikipedia does allow information in articles where experts state their opinions, commenting on cause and effect relationships such as the statement made in this source. So this begs some questions: is this article at the appropriate stage to do this? Undoubtedly, many experts will be stating their opinions on the efficacy of aid and the role of wealthier nations in Haiti's destruction and recovery, so it's best to resolve this now before the article expands. Is The Miami Herald or the reporters involved in writing the series of stories about the earthquake to be considered experts? I am unable right now to make a case that The Miami Herald staff are experts on social issues in Haiti, but is this conceivable that they might be with their focus on Haiti's social issues in the recent past? If not a journalist, would someone else's opinion be accepted, such as an historian, sociologist, humanitarian, politician, or someone with acknowledged experience with this kind of insight? The suggested replacement is inaccurate to the source; The Miami Herald reported that many Haitians took the lack of authority in stride yes, but because Haitians have experience with inept and unstable authority. Without that, it's a rather meaningless statement making them seem like simpletons. The proverb was common during the Duvalier dictatorships, according to the story, alluding again to political ineptitude. It's an incomplete and oversimplified picture without these considerations. -- Moni3 ( talk) 21:35, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
It seemed to me that the referenced source had encycopedic content, but the original text posted here read almost as if it stated the opinion of WP or of the editors working on our article; most of the proposed alternatives either did the same or seemed to have been tortured into neutrality. Perhaps it should be in a paragraph that covers media reports of the opinions being offered of Haiti and its people following the quake. It seems to me that many besides Pat Robertson are spouting racist nonsense, much as they did after Katrina. To some extent, the current text of the aftermath section tells both sides in a factual, if limited way, but the words "negative," "opinion," "media," and "coverage" don't appear in the article. "Bias" and "reporting" only appear once each, and in a different context.-- Hjal ( talk) 23:44, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
Moni3 wrote the opinion with political bias, so I wrote an opposite opinion. But Moni3 removed mine immediately. Moni3's editing that remove dissenting opinion and want to continue only own description, is not neutral.-- 121.3.66.64 ( talk) 03:08, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: consensus to oppose with no contentious debate -- Pontificalibus ( talk) 09:18, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
2010 Haiti earthquake → January 12, 2010 Haiti Earthquake We should move this article because a second, strong, (initial estimate is 6.1 Mw) possibly unrelated earthquake (in that this quake was 'triggered' by the first, but is probably not a true aftershock) struck Haiti on January 20, 2010.
The first earthquake (12 January) struck to the west-southwest of Port-au-Prince, but the second earthquake (20 January) appears to have come from a different (albeit nearby) fault, with the epicenter/hypocenter situated to the northwest.
A quick search using any of the available news aggregators (Google, Yahoo!, Bing, etc.) for 'second quake Haiti' will result in a large number of articles.
I have created the 2010 Haiti earthquakes article in preparation. I also mistakenly created a 'January 12, 2010 Haiti earthquake' article and copied this article over to it, but have requested speedy deletion because I later found that there is a formal 'move page' function/process already defined. My apologies in advance for the inconvenience. Adams kevin ( talk)
The earthquake in haiti is magnitude 7.0 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.233.190.124 ( talk) 00:22, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
In view of the dual necessities of providing humanitarian relief and security forces to bolster the Haitian police force in the aftermath of the quake, I'm surprised that there hasn't been any edits to the section criticizing U.S. air traffic control. Aid agencies can't operate in unsafe zones and the prospect of looting and other social disorder in the immediate aftermath of the earthquake were contingencies for which U.S. military brass in charge of air traffic control at the airport would have had to plan. I'm surprised no one else has provided this context. Omnia mutantur ( talk) 02:24, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
This is a great human interest story and there are some neat pictures. [22]
"An earthquake survivor in Port-au-Prince who gave birth to a son at the Israeli field hospital on Jan. 17, 2010 decided to name him Israel as a token of appreciation for the country that helped her. "
There should also be more about the help received from other countries such as Italy, mentioned in the section above. Stellarkid ( talk) 16:27, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
Evidence is mounting that a tsunami wave hit after the earthquake, I think this should be included in the article, I will link it with sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SunnieBG ( talk • contribs) 20:57, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
Why couldn't they just airdrop supplies and have soldiers trained in medicine and rescue operations just parachute in? Would that be so difficult when they see that supplies will not get to those trapped in time?-- RossF18 ( talk) 19:49, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
Air dropping aid does not guarantee that food and other relief supplies will reach the people most in need. In many cases it is the strongest and fittest who get to the aid first, and not the sick or injured who most need help and assistance. In a natural disaster such as Cyclone Nargis or conflict like Darfur it?s not only food that is needed but also sophisticated equipment such as clean water and sanitation systems weighing tons as well as highly skilled staff to operate them, all of which cannot be dropped from the sky. If there isn't an aid operation on the ground to distribute the aid, the air drops can exacerbate any tense relations within communities with only the fittest and fastest benefiting.
The Miami Herald is doing that thing with the headlines without explaining anything in text, but they are showing an images of air drops. -- Moni3 ( talk) 00:13, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
After 72 hours, rescue is probably going to be extremely unlikely. Should we start a new section when news starts to be reported from January 16 titled Recovery and aid? -- Moni3 ( talk) 01:05, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
The edit appeared as:
On 20 February 2010, Haitian-American musician Wyclef Jean stated on the Oprah Winfrey Show that he was going to return to Haiti to "...look at the helicopter [situation]", referring to helicopter pilots dropping emergency food and supplies to Haitians from several feet above the ground. [3] Jean continued: "....I'm looking at the helicopter, and I see the way they are throwing food down on my people, and I want them to know the Haitian people are not animals".
Jean's unfounded criticism was likely due to a lack of knowledge on the high risks of decapitations, serious bodily injuries, and helicopter crashes due to main and tail rotor strikes. Such an accident during the delivery of relief supplies to unsupervised landing zones might have also led to the loss of a helicopter and crew and resulted in a suspension of the relief flights.
I removed it for the following reasons, and I was simply unable to rewrite it:
If anybody wants to try to hunt down reliable sources we don't have anything on:
We also have very little detail on the situation outside Port-au-Prince. Yomangani talk 11:24, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
From what Kiss 107.1 FM Cincinnati and Lionel Richie report, Lionel plans to get as many artist at the Grammy Awards he can to sing We are the World for Haiti. Yami ( talk) 21:34, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
It it evident that HAARP ( High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program) was very 'active' preceding the incident. Conspiracy theorist are accusing the facility of causing the incident if not intentionally specifically on the Haiti capital. See Induction Magnetometer |HAARP Induction Magnometer January 11 2010 -- Lastnightat3am ( talk) 02:47, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
interesting to note, that one user advocating exclusion, hasn't ever edited here, until HAARP was mentioned. Oh well, to the rest of you... your fringe argument doesn't work. Maybe you don't realize that the Russian Duma has passed resolutions concerning HAARP as a weapon, one of HAARP's US patent holders, is on record as thinking its a weapon, and even the US state dept is investigating other ionic heaters possibilites as weapons. Go check it out before you tell me it fails fringe... that wp's "possible weapon" section alone is longer than some our sections on this page...
anyways the other two points are RS and UNDUE, and considering one the text's cites is from venezuelan public broadcasting I think we have sufficient RS. As for UNDUE I think you are right as far as the lede goes (as i said then) but I don't think its "undue" weight in one of the subsections, or as a last resort in one of the subarticles... we have thousands and thousands of words on the various pages, so two sentences is basically NEVER undue if it has cites. Fancy-cats-are-happy-cats ( talk) 03:31, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
I would say that the hypothesis that HAARP caused the quake is about as credible as Pat Robertson's hypothesis that the Devil caused the earthquake. I suggest the two should be handled in roughly the same way. 192.12.184.2 ( talk) 15:29, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
I would also note that HAARP's magnetometer shows alot of activity on these days, and does not for an extensive amount of time surrounding this date. If this does not mean HAARP caused it, what other conclusions can be drawn from this evidence. Could it be possible that a solar storm caused the earthquakes? And I think the fact that HAARPs magnetometer's readings are not being investigated reveals something as well. There are many government employed scientists that monitor this on a daily basis, why has this reading in the very least not been explained. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.82.214.74 ( talk) 22:36, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
Ok, but can we maybe agree to a section on the correlation of data from HAARP's own magnetometer on that day in relation to the dates surrounding the Haiti 2010 Earthquake, with no mention of Venezuela's accusations, because the information of activity on HAARP's magnetometer was provided by HAARP, with the emphasis on rare activity on those days. Or a brief explanation linking to a seperate page on HAARP activity in relation to natural disasters or something. Please reference HAARP Magnetometer reading days before quake, hosted on government run site —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.183.28.95 ( talk) 05:36, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
What if it's on the mainstream media? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9QtZkT8OBQ 188.222.76.52 ( talk) 10:57, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
HAARP could have this device, which would indicate that the activity HAARP detected could be in relation to the quake see - U.S. Patent 4980644 - Earthquake detecting magnetometer with movable magnetic compass needle and method of using same - An earthquake predicting magnetometer having a compass assembly with a graduated dial and an adjustbly positionable magnet assembly having magnetic poles oriented opposite the direction markings on the compass dial. The device is oriented to the cardinal points using the compass. Then the magnet is adjusted in proximity to the compass assembly until the magnet counterbalances the magnetosphere of the earth. This leaves the compass needle facing east or west. When the magnetosphere of earth weakens prior to a major seismic event, the compass needle will point to the south on a graduated scale on the dial, indicating an imminent quake of large magnitude.-- Indlebe ( talk) 22:07, 23 January 2010 (UTC)