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Hello folks. I'd like to draw attention to our current coverage of cryptozoology and to four Wikipedia articles in particular: cryptozoology, cryptid, cryptobotany, and list of cryptids.
First, a little context: For those unfamiliar, cryptozoology is, plain and simple, classic pseudoscience. In short, cryptozoology is pretend biology with the pesky science thrown out while excitedly gazing at the folklore record—without any desire for an introductory course in folkloristics. This culminates to form a wrong-headed game of monster-hunting (was it a dinosaur?). Today cryptozoology only lives on the internet and, it would seem, is most notably (and most unknowingly) aided by Wikipedia's current lack of a solid crackdown. Academic institutions won't touch it with a stick.
And I'm sure this sort of monster hunting as a group activity is fun and all but academic it ain't. In fact, it's often presented at the expense of how this material should be handled: by folklorists. Instead of the why, how, and when a being or entity developed among a group of people and how academics have analyzed it from any number of angles over the past few hundred years, the folklore of myriad peoples is all too often reduced to some guy or girl writing an article about it with the key point of maybe-it-exists-and-we-can't-find-it-yet!.
Now, for years we've had cryptozoologists running amuck on Wikipedia, treating Wikipedia as their personal Pokémon database. This seems to be primarily due to a severe lack of folklorists contributing to Wikipedia (a folkloristics task force would have quickly nipped this in the bud). It's a bit like letting our articles on ghosts be guided by ghost-hunters ("paranormal investigators"—there was a cold spot!) or comparable to hollow earth theorists dictating the terms of our geology articles (no, no—there's another sun in there!). We don't allow it because a lot of people simply know a lot better.
Unfortunately, a lot of this stuff is obscure and not a lot of people around here are familiar with the study of folklore nor are they generally aware of what cryptozoology is. It's been a constant battle to keep this stuff at bay and often requires extensive explanation that, no, cryptozoology isn't a science (hey, but it could be a hidden dinosaur, right?). At various points, users—such as myself—have removed some of the most noxious examples of the situation from Wikipedia but there are still many articles on the site that claim that some entity or being from the folklore of some group or another is a "cryptid"—a monster waiting to be found (hiding dinosaur, of course). Where it still occurs, this is a pretty clear cut violation of WP:UNDUE and WP:FRINGE that would be instantly zapped like a grocery store moth were it not for the obscurity of some of these articles.
My goal in writing this to you folks is to implore you to help me reign this stuff in. It's for too long been out of control and we need to do something about it. Maybe a good place to start is with our coverage on cryptozoology itself. Right now, we've got separate articles for cryptid (a term used exclusively by cryptozoologists and not, for example, by folklorists), cryptobotany (same history and same people as cryptozoology, probably obscure to cryptozoologists—in fact, it's just cryptoozology but with plants and only yields a few pages of Google Books results (!)), and list of cryptids. The last list is absurd beyond reason: literally every creature that someone on the internet decides could be a cryptid can go on this list. The list could simply be replaced with an explanation of what a cryptid is on the cryptozoology page—right now it's just a nonsense magnet.
Shouldn't all of that just be handled at cryptozoology? What do you folks think? :bloodofox: ( talk) 06:51, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
A few years ago I came across List of cryptids filled to the brim with nonsense. I proposed a set of inclusion criteria, but didn't get much of a response. It's probably more conservative than I'd propose these days (might've been timid since I had no background with the page, and very little with the subject -- I just knew I saw a mess). So when nobody objected, I did some purging. Since then I've reverted now and again but haven't been diligent. I'd support something a bit more stringent (e.g. if there's no article, at least 3 sources or somesuch), but it's a notable list. The list might also be useful to serve as a home for some of the poorer articles. As for the other articles, I haven't looked at (and don't know enough about) cryptobotany to comment, but cryptid could just be merged into cryptozoology and list of cryptids as appropriate -- I don't see that that one really adds anything. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 12:58, 17 August 2016 (UTC) The section heading and "hidden dinosaur" made me laugh.
It doesn't help that you have pre-eminent wildlife biologists such as Jane Goodall who have expressed sympathy for cryptozoology as an endeavor. I get the impression it is more out of a romantic idealism than a true evaluation of what this morass entails. There is an excellent 2008 documentary called Not Your Typical Bigfoot Movie (clips here: [1], IMDB here: [2]) which shows in rather sympathetic detail how this subject is really one that transcends the simple pseudoscience being spouted and bleeds into questions of politics, economics, faith, and the conflict between cynical leeches and true believers. jps ( talk) 14:12, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
Good luck trying to do anything about most of these "cryptid" articles. There's a host of sympathetic editors that seem to keep the articles in their current state. Many of them have atrocious sourcing though. They probably wouldn't survive AFD which might bring more eyes. Most editors are probably unaware most of these articles even exist. Capeo ( talk) 20:42, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
Maybe someone has suggested this but I overlooked it in all the discussion: Yes, it's fringe. The proper way to present all this info is from the academic disciplines: anthropology, sociology, folklore studies, etc. If aspects of the crypto-x worlds (terminology, individuals, beliefs, etc) are notable enough to deserve their own articles, they should be presented with the proper context of the academic disciplines rather than the pseudoscience. -- Ronz ( talk) 21:02, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
There is currently a request for comment on an issue involving WP:FRINGE at Talk:Frankfurt_School#RfC:_Does_the_lede_of_the_.22Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory.22_section_follow_WP:NPOV_and_is_its_claim_supported_by_cited_sources.3F - editors are encouraged to have a look and help form consensus. -- Jobrot ( talk) 19:11, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
I've reverted an account for adding text such as "From her personal and non-scientific standpoint, she nevertheless" and an IP for removing sourced text they didn't like, both in the last few hours. I'd prefer not to revert again today. Doug Weller talk 11:33, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
Prophet_Yahweh ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Prophet_Yahweh - — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rhoark ( talk • contribs) 15:59, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
Just an FYI. If one of you FRINGE folks happen to be an AfC reviewer, and want to take a look at this small novel, that would be...uh...welcome. Seems obviously fringy, but I'm not really an expert. TimothyJosephWood 18:16, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
This BLP of a handsome chap (I googled him) never got deleted after an AfD " delete" result. There is some handwaving at the talk page. My interest was sparked by this entry at COIN.
Much Some of the sourcing is to a website by another handsome chap called Mike Adams, who seems a little confused about reality. The same ref appears three different times on the reflist, and is cited more than thrice.
What to do? - Roxy the dog™ bark 08:53, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
Ruggero Santilli is up for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ruggero Santilli (2nd nomination). Please comment there. Sławomir Biały ( talk) 12:00, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
Recently, an editor removed the word "false" from the article Sherri Tenpenny in response to an edit request on the article's talk page. Prior to this word being removed, the article stated that "She supports the false beliefs that vaccines cause autism, asthma, ADHD and autoimmune disorders." Is it, in the opinion of other editors, a violation of WP:NPOV or WP:BLP to include the word "false" in this sentence? Everymorning (talk) 01:50, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
K.e.coffman has been aggressively (though, so far, within the bounds of RR) deleting [21] this section (titled "Specific claims") of content that notes videos and photos cited by conspiracy theorists who believe in the "Healther" hoax were manipulated or taken out of context. Some additional eyes would be appreciated so this doesn't turn into a pro-CT article. LavaBaron ( talk) 05:52, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
An AfD that falls within the scope of this noticeboard -- interested editors are invited to participate. K.e.coffman ( talk) 19:09, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
You can cut and paste this: [[Category:Promoters of pseudoscience]]
Editors recommended to rename the cat. See Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 August 12#Category:People accused of pseudoscience. That's exactly what I did. The cat can be added to an article where a person is known to be a promoter of pseudoscience. Edit wisely, QuackGuru ( talk) 08:52, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
I know Jimbo Wales can resolve this issue if the cat is deleted. Wales speaks to the media, but editors on Wikipedia want results. See WP:QUACKS. Wales can start a new cat called [[Category:Purveyors of pseudoscience]]. Thoughts? QuackGuru ( talk) 21:05, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
on the talk page, cut'n'pasted from the subject talk page. A combative advocate given to personal attacks. I originally thought it was a persistent driveby (what looked like sandboxing) (removal of criticism) so set the article to autoconfirmed, but the editor claims to be spearheading a call to action. More eyes needed - David Gerard ( talk) 09:22, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
Editors views are solicited on the talk page thread captioned Deletion of Rewards. SPECIFICO talk 20:09, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
An Rfc has been posted here. It could use comments by editors who are well-versed in sourcing and editing policy. SPECIFICO talk 01:53, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
I normally avoid religious topics for the standard reason, but I'm running up against 3RR on Richard Carrier because of a Christian editor Gonzales_John ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) who insists Christ Myth Theory is a conspiracy theory and keeps putting that phrase into Carrier's biography. He also has ripped out tons of text from the article with (IMHO) misleading edit summaries. I've restored most of that text and engaged with him on his talk page, but he's already trying my patience with super verbose replies to my requests ( footnotes on a talk page? really?). Doubting the Historicity of Jesus as a fringe theory has come up before on this noticeboard - here are just a few links to previous discussions: Feb 2013, Aug 2013 Sept 2014 and April 2016. Anyway, would appreciate a few eyes on what's going on over there. As I said I'm not super experienced on religious edit wars. -- Krelnik ( talk) 13:31, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
Editors are invited to review and comment at Talk:Jill Stein#RfC: Should the article discuss a crowd-funded YouTube documentary or include a quotation from Chris Hedges stating that "the Democratic Party is one of the engines for ... proto-fascism," or include similar content?. Neutrality talk 19:36, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
The theory that the natives of Britain were exterminated is generally considered highly unlikely by all sources, except for one source claiming the opposite. I do not think one source is enough grounds for accepting the theory as necessary for acknowledgement.
"Weale et al. is very recent scholarship and it claimed that 50% to 100% of English genetics derives from North Germany. Most other recent scholarship does not agree with this extreme view." - Urselius (on talk page)
An extreme view seems to be a fringe theory. Besides, Weale's study does not even give evidence to extermination unless the number was 100%. But the number is between 50 and 100 allowing a certain number of natives to survive. Thus, my case is that no contemporary source supports the extermination theory and should be edited for lacking sources. Gordon410 ( talk) 15:45, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
A secondary source provides an author's own thinking based on primary sources, generally at least one step removed from an event. It contains an author's analysis, evaluation, interpretation, or synthesis of the facts, evidence, concepts, and ideas taken from primary sources.That describes more or less what Thomas has done using the Domesday book and Weale's 2002 genetics research as primary sources. Rhoark ( talk) 13:55, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
Lonnie Zamora incident ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) Huge article, often editorializes in favor of the UFOlogy fringe view in Wikipedia's voice, and no independent reliable sources. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 13:39, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
See Shearer, Christine; et al. (10 August 2016). "Quantifying expert consensus against the existence of a secret, large-scale atmospheric spraying program". Environmental Research Letters. 11 (8): 084011. Bibcode: 2016ERL....11h4011S. doi: 10.1088/1748-9326/11/8/084011.
Being discussed here: Talk:Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory#New_paper Jytdog ( talk) 04:21, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
I believe there is a false accusation of WP:FRINGE at Talk:Ürümqi#Demographics. Views expressed in an RS source by a University Professor, James Millward, are getting called fringe for no good reason. Rajmaan ( talk) 16:47, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
[29] [30] Professor of Chinese and Central Asian History James A. Millward
The book in question was published by Stanford University Press
False accusations of WP:FRINGE and WP:UNDUE are being hurled with no reference to any of the content of those guidelines. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rajmaan ( talk • contribs) 13:25, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
There are some remaining unresolved issues with this article which could benefit from extra input. As I see it the issues include:
Alexbrn ( talk) 18:00, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
Alexbrn, you wrote "Yes, I think whether quackery is due in the lede, is debatable." Are you willing to have quackery be removed from the lede (with it still remaining in Reception)? As you previously discussed, this would not affect "pseudoscience" or the cost/safety elements in the lede.-- Karinpower ( talk) 03:11, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
Also of concern here now is new accounts warping in with apparently WP:PROFRINGE edits - e.g. [33] [34] Recruiting or something going on? Alexbrn ( talk) 06:14, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
David Wilcock ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
This is just plain WP:SOAPy. It almost reads like a paid promotional piece. Are there any WP:FRIND sources available about this fellow?
jps ( talk) 00:13, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
Could anyone please pay attention to the article on Soka Gakkai. To my mind it is in breach with a number of guidelines in place already mentioned in the talk page. I am not an active editor. -- Tonisana2 ( talk) 10:05, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
I seriously want to nuke this spammy article, but it may be a notable subject. Does anyone know? Guy ( Help!) 12:51, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
Diversified technique ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
The article was restored with two non-independent sources. There was a previous discussion for the Diversified technique page. See Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard/Archive 50#Diversified technique. QuackGuru ( talk) 18:29, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
This is a pretty bad article, but is it bollocks or ist it just that the stuff is mainly used in countries which are not part fo the medical mainstream? Guy ( Help!) 12:14, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
This is a pretty bad article, a sort of catch-all for all sorts of stuff. See Talk:Proposed Book of Mormon geographical setting#Various issues: WP:UNDUE, lists of proponents, bad sourcing. Doug Weller talk 16:30, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
See Talk:Michael_Greger#Request_for_comments_on_SBM_source Jytdog ( talk) 03:07, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
The talk page for Diesel engine ( Talk:Diesel engine) contains a discussion and an RfC about the contributions of George Brayton. His Brayton engine used the Brayton cycle to do something similar to Rudolf Diesel's engine. I have some WP:FRINGE, WP:OR and WP:NPOV concerns about the additions being proposed. I was invited to the RfC by the RfC service and there are only a couple of editors participating in the discussion. Roches ( talk) 03:19, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
A strikingly uncritical biography of a "pioneer in the field of integrative healthcare", virtually every word of whihc was written by one or other of two WP:SPAs, one of whose usernames clearly suggests a connection to the subject. Guy ( Help!) 06:48, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
This article could do with some in-depth sources, as it currently represents the fringe content of the film uncritically. Guy ( Help!) 11:56, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
This article was started by one of the main promoters of the term, Iratrofimov ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), discussion of whose work makes up half the article and whose primary research also dominates the references. That's a bit red-flaggy for me. Guy ( Help!) 11:23, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
Is it just me, or does Lake Tianchi Monster ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) sound a little credulous? Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk, contributions) 14:20, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
The article makes it pretty clear that TFT is bogus, but an IP is edit-warring to include the following as the closing para of the lede:
References
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cite web}}
: Missing or empty |title=
(
help)
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cite web}}
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help)
This seems to me to be WP:UNDUE, it is also WP:PRIMARY (to say nothing of special pleading). I suspect the article might need semiprotection to stop this, but someone here might feel that the content can be used in some form lower in the article. Guy ( Help!) 07:55, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
Lew Childre ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
I sense that this person may be notable given the outside criticism of his institute, but I'd like others to consider this too. His father may actually be more notable than he, but alas, no article.
jps ( talk) 18:55, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Marilyn Hamilton
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Integral City (2nd nomination)
Comment, please. jps ( talk) 20:58, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
Both were relisted, so additional input would be appreciated. jps ( talk) 13:05, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
This yet-another-radical-reworking of Christian origins by non-scholar Joseph Atwill has a rather peculiar article which cannot decide how to approach this conspiracy theory. Bart Ehrman of course savages it but we could use something a little better than his blog-post-before-he-had-even-read-it response. Mangoe ( talk) 02:58, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
A couple of editors over at
Ethereum repeatedly assert that this Ethereum page is
WP:FRINGE (also making similar assertions relating to
The DAO (organization)) and therefore delete large swaths of content added, asserting compliance is required with
WP:FRIND. See a current discussion here relating at
Talk:Ethereum#Coin_desk. I thought I would create this entry here at this message board and seek consensus if this is the correct venue and if this is in fact a Fringe article. This issue is currently manifesting in a discussion if
CoinDesk (a
cryptocurrency news site) can be a
WP:RS on the
Ethereum page, and if sources on this page much . Similar ad nauseam discussions has been going on for at least 6 months (many previous discussions archived) with much content deleted, reverts, and endless back and forth... So I thought I would shine some light on it here to see if the page is indeed Fringe, and also do a noticeboard posting to see if
CoinDesk is an RS for this page located here
Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#CoinDesk_and_CoinTelegraph_on_the_article_Ethereum. Is my approach correct? Thank you
Jtbobwaysf (
talk) 10:26, 31 August 2016 (UTC) I have stuck some of my comments above to attempt to focus this discussion, as I think I have conflated the subject a bit. Apologies
Jtbobwaysf (
talk) 12:44, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
This article recently survived, albeit barely,
an AfD nomination. Subsequently a number of editors, acting I believe in good faith, have taken it upon themselves to edit this article in a manner that effectively has deleted it it in all but name. It has been reduced to a stub that contains exactly one sentence that can be connected to the title of the article. the rest is a nakedly anti-conspiracy theory essay. I am no fan of conspiracy theories and in fact agree with the views expressed in the article essay. But this is clearly an end run around an AfD that didn't go the way they wanted. And the result is an article that has been turned into an anti-conspiracy theory POV hit piece. Like I said, I oppose the use of the project for the promotion of fringe theories, but this is not right. I am reluctant to mass revert edits but if you want to delete the article it should be done in an above board manner. The last AfD ended in no consensus. I suggest restoring most of the redacted material and renominating it. Or alternatively editing it in a way that does not constitute de-facto deletion. (cross posting from
the talk page -
Ad Orientem (
talk) 18:14, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
This is a monograph by a WP:SPA. It reads to me as WP:SYN or promotion of a non-notable neologism, but it's not my field. Anyone know if it's cromulent or not? Guy ( Help!) 20:43, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
I trimmed claims of the health benefits and altered states arising from immersion in an isolation tank, but the subject appears to be controversial. Additional fringe-savvy eyes will no doubt usefully inform consensus. Alexbrn ( talk) 20:01, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
References
Mainly primary sources,reads at least in large part like something they might distribute as a primer. I haven't looked at the related articles. Doug Weller talk 20:13, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
http://bjoern.brembs.net/2016/01/even-without-retractions-top-journals-publish-the-least-reliable-science/ Rhoark ( talk) 18:57, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
It is proposed that the Journal of Scientific Exploration page be merged into the Society for Scientific Exploration page. QuackGuru ( talk) 02:05, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
An IP is adding their view of when this Indian mythological battle happened using a slideshow they uploaded to a random website and appears to be extremely persistent. Additional eyes and comments would be helpful. Ravensfire ( talk) 12:36, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
Came across Amy L. Lansky and thought I would bring attention to it here. Some really terrible sources are used (Mercola, Natural medicine, Homeopathy.org etc). Was originally going to trim it back, but seeing as most of the remaining sources are primary ones and not much appears in google (a few reviews of her book and more of the same dodgy sources) I was thinking it was a good candidate for deletion. Does the AAAI Classic Paper Award add any notability and is Psycology today at all reliable. I wouldn't have thought so after reading [37], but they apparently have a lot of experts [38]. AIRcorn (talk) 22:33, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
Looks entirely single sourced and self promotional. Came across an article of his on "Spirit Science" and wanted to see if he was an actual doctor. Please take a look at this article. - Xcuref1endx ( talk) 16:24, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
Some discussion [39] about whether a source's description of The McDougall Plan as a "fad diet" can be reflected in Wikipedia. More eyes welcome. Alexbrn ( talk) 06:20, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
I notice that the March Against Monsanto page doesn't seem to discuss the organization's stance on various topics, even though they are commonly brought up on the group's Facebook page and official website. They are anti-vaccine and promote belief in chemtrails. See here and here for examples of those on their Facebook page, though there are plenty more such posts. They also have an official article on their website about their anti-vaccine stance, which you can see here.
Isn't this the sort of topic that should be discussed in their article due to it being one of their primary topics of discussion (and targets, I guess one could say)? The problem is that this pseudoscience side of the group is not really discussed by secondary sources. The best you get is other pseudoscience-esque pages like Collective Evolution covering it. So, only primary sources from the group themselves exist. Is that good enough to include their stance on such things in their WP article? Silver seren C 01:20, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
Incidentally, this thread reminds me that we don't have an article on anti-GMO activism which, I think, would be useful. jps ( talk) 12:32, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
started working on this - if anybody wants to work on it too fine by me.. Jytdog ( talk) 20:20, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
Bump. More eyes would be great. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 13:38, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
I've never looked closely at this article, and I'm wondering if it would be best to get some more eyes from here. The article doesn't look like it follows FRINGE in the lede or body. Rather it appears to weigh alt-med sources and pov's over others. I don't recall seeing vox.com discussed as a source for alt med topics, but http://www.vox.com/2014/12/31/7438565/detox looks like a fairly good introduction including the history. -- Ronz ( talk) 21:09, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
What is this about? https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Mother%27s_Agenda&type=revision&diff=739979564&oldid=655587251 Doug with no PC Internet connection who hates his ipad
New article about a fringe author claiming Muhammad lived in Petra. Needs work. Doug Weller talk 18:25, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
Whilst idly following some breadcrumbs, I came across this article. "Milton Wainwright (born 1950) is a British microbiologist who is known for his research into what he claims could be extraterrestrial life found in the stratosphere." (I'll note that the original text when first created was "Milton Wainwright is a british microbiologist who became world famous for his discovery of the particle of alliend and therefore proving the existence of the alien life.")
The references and support look awfully thin to me. Is he "world famous" enough for an article? -- Calton | Talk 12:07, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
Fringe author writing on the history of Islam. Seems to be some OR here and too much dependence on his work. When I get my replacement modem/router and am off my iPad (useless for Goole Books for some reason) I'll try to find time for it. Doug Weller talk 18:25, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
Oops. Posted about this yesterday, sorry. Doug Weller talk 18:25, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
Heads-up: a brand new user has decided to "help" us by making the article on Targ more "neutral" (by which I mean that he casts the reality-based view as being held only by a handful of those evil science shill skeptics). Guy ( Help!) 10:01, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
Category talk:Violence against men#Which version is better?.
Note that the fringe theory being pushed is the MRA proposal that domestic violence against men and domestic violence against women are categorically equivalent.
jps ( talk) 18:16, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
Sorry, but this sounds too much like CANVASSING to me. Also, in what ways is this a MRA proposal? Could you please explain? I do not intend to be rude or unpleasant, I merely wish to understand. I agree with you on other things, but on this issue I disagree. 79.66.16.141 ( talk) 17:28, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
He's a former Russian Orthodox monk, formally condemned by the church. According to the independent sources, he seems to be a promoter of anti-Jewish conspiracies and was a local street activist/preacher in Summit County, Colorado. Most of the article is sourced to primary sources, or not sourced at all. The article needs a complete rewrite from the secondary sources. --
Ronz (
talk) 16:13, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
Pgbrux ( talk · contribs)' blocked before for editwarring on this, has hit 3rr, violating our sourcing policy and NPOV. But I've reverted him twice and am about to turn off my light! Doug Weller talk 21:12, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
Could use some additional eyes on Climate Hustle, which has seen several pov additions in the past few days and a lengthy new talk page message. I've responded, but something tells me my response won't effectively assuage their concerns. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 23:21, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
The article Wireless power transfer has been a battleground for years due to extremely persistent efforts to insert an alternate theory that around 1900 Nikola Tesla transmitted electric power around the world using something called a Zenneck wave. This has been mentioned previously on this page: Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard/Archive_44#World_Wireless_System The conflict is heating up again. Would be very helpful to have editors take a good long look at the recent Talk page discussion and express their opinion. Hope to have some editors watchlist this page and participate in future discussions, as it looks to be a continuing thing. Cheers! -- Chetvorno TALK 03:53, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#Morgellons. Interested in folks' thoughts there. Jytdog ( talk) 07:16, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
Zerona ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
New AfD up for discussion: WP:Articles_for_deletion/Zerona. The article is a very promotional about a laser device that "busts fat." Delta13C ( talk) 06:28, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
I am wondering if this theory should be mentioned in any way this draft. I am generally of the opinion that articles should be comprehensive, but it's clearly a fringe theory and I am leaning towards not mentioning it at all. What is the common practice for such things? Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk, contributions) 16:39, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
see Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Can_article_titles_be_used_as_sources.3F Jytdog ( talk) 04:16, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
Edit summaries like "Page returned to original state with listed references following attempt to alter it with deleterious statements. This page was started to inform readers about voice stress analysis. Start another page if you wish to write negative and onesided comments" do not inspire confidence. VSA is, of course, distinctly fringe. Guy ( Help!) 17:27, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
The article Joachim Helbig has been nominated for community GA reassessment as per WP:GAR.
The discussion will take place at GAR:Joachim Helbig, with the goal to reach a consensus whether the article satisfies the good article criteria. Any input would be welcome.
I believe that this GAR is within the scope of this noticeboard due to the use of what I'd describe as fringe sources, including Franz Kurowski, two works published by a German right-wing publisher, and a self-published source.
Any input would be welcome. K.e.coffman ( talk) 03:17, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
@ K.e.coffman:, I disagreed with you on the Knight's Cross articles, but here I am in agreement. I'm still not convinced that pro-Nazi material is per se fringe. Racial theories, Nazi archaeology, antisemitic propaganda, and so on would be fringe, and Holocaust denial is fringe, but I see this as an NPOV issue rather than a fringe issue. Nevertheless, I commented on why I believe Helbig should be GAR-delisted based on the neutrality criterion as well as the RS criterion. Roches ( talk) 21:24, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
some more eyes would be useful. Jytdog ( talk) 06:31, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
Article for Deletion: A fringe practitioner (naturopath and chiropractor) who does not appear notable beyond the naturopathic community, since Bastyr University bears his name. Delta13C ( talk) 08:46, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
Hmmm. Just came across this today and am trying to figure out what to make of it. Pubmed search for reviews here (more expansive here). Seems like an effort aimed at correcting a perceived sexism in medical theory and research about the HPA axis and the fight or flight response (with an equally catchy name); just not sure if this is a real thing or a pet theory.... and when I say "not sure" i really mean "not sure". Jytdog ( talk) 16:04, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
A team of AAH proponents are removing mentions of "pseudoscience" from the article, and argueing that the theory has been met with greater acceptance in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, based on a BBC proigram in whiuch David Attenborough (a non scientist and ling time proponent) states that the theory is now gaining acceptance. ·maunus · snunɐɯ· 05:39, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
(This clearly falls under "fringe theories" as the notion that a reenactor web site can be used for an encyclopedic citation is clearly out of the mainstream. :-) )
I would appreciate additional attention to the article, where I was reverted twice due to the editor's insistence on using a Wehrmacht reenactment web site as a source for a citation. Please see: Talk:11th_Panzer_Division_(Wehrmacht)#11thpanzer.com. K.e.coffman ( talk) 00:37, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
I came across this article via the edits of an IP editor ( Special:Contributions/94.60.196.117) inserting neo-Nazi publications into articles. The article is in need of a cleaning up and could use some RS. I cleaned up the lead, but it was a drop in the bucket due to the amount of neo-Nazi fancruft. K.e.coffman ( talk) 20:26, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
Nicole, first and foremost, please read and understand our basic rule about writing articles: WP:CITE, WP:RS and don't write unreferenced personal essays. May be your topics are valid, but you are not convincing anybody with your personal views on the subject. References in the articles, please, which directly discuss the term in the title of the article you are editing. Staszek Lem ( talk) 16:39, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
Please read " talk:politics of outer space" for the discussion on sources, and current uses of the terms "astropolitics" and "exopolitics." Regardless of the origin of the terms (e.g. your Webre citation), the term "exopolitics" has become mainstream enough to be included in a number of major publications such as Astronomy magazine. The etymology is fairly simple and uncontroversial, with "exo-" simply meaning "outside the atmosphere," which does cover both Terran and any hypothetical extraterrestrial spaceflight (e.g. technically "astronauts" are really "exonauts," since Terran astronauts do not have the technology yet to visit the stars [astra]). The usage of "exopolitics" in UFO conspiracy theories has already been addressed on the discussion page for the "politics of outer space." Nicole Sharp ( talk) 18:27, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
An WP:ACTIVIST editor included Communist propaganda outlets (for the germane WP:PAG see WP:BLOGS) and the viewpoint of Voice of Russia stated in Wikipedia's voice at [42]. He believes that WP:NPOV means being mid-way between independent, reliable Western sources and Communist propaganda. Tgeorgescu ( talk) 19:11, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
Discussion at Talk:Romania#NPOV Dispute. Tgeorgescu ( talk) 19:20, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
dcnews.ro is an "online journal" with a redaction consisting of three people, see http://www.dcnews.ro/redactie/ Tgeorgescu ( talk) 19:29, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
The Pro-Nazi leader Ion Antonescu, executed by the Communists long ago, is listed as one of the writers of art-emis.ro, see http://www.art-emis.ro/autori.html Tgeorgescu ( talk) 19:33, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
The claim of "economic lynching of Romania" is a hysterical claim of a paranoid conspiracy theory. Tgeorgescu ( talk) 19:56, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
http://www.dailybusiness.ro/despre-noi/ does not claim having editorial control or fact checking. Tgeorgescu ( talk) 20:14, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
This looks like WP:SYN to me, hence Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nano brain, but others may know more about ti and actually be able to identify a source that's (a) rel;iable and (b) about the subject as stated. Maybe the title is wrong, I don't know. Guy ( Help!) 09:35, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
Came across this article via the Troy Southgate cluster. The article has potentially problematic POV as its using Southgate as a source and quotes him extensively. Possibly created as a (neo-Nazi) tribute, although it uses some RS. However, it's difficult to untangle the two. K.e.coffman ( talk) 00:17, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
Mindbogglingly, there is actually such a thing as "National Anarchism". It's pretty much "nazis who don't like being told what to do". They've actually come up with an "anarchism" that makes actual anarchists hate them even more than they hate ancaps. The RationalWiki article has some non-Nazi paper sources that might be useful if someone can find them and look them up - David Gerard ( talk) 10:54, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
An IP keeps deleting a couple paragraphs calling it pseudoscience. ThePlatypusofDoom (talk) 20:40, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
Hey folks. So, I think I've found a use for the inane list of cryptids article: identifying articles from folklore and zoology that cryptozoologists have hijacked over the past several years and cleaning them up.
For those following the sad saga of Wikipedia as a former cryptozoology playground, exactly how bad the situation is with many articles can be seen with some of the articles I haven't gotten to yet. Essentially any article regarding an entity from the folklore record appears to have been fair game to internet cryptozoologists, whether it's an obscure entity from regional Japanese folk belief or a half-read report on a potentially new canid species as reported by a biologist.
Anyway, enforcing WP:PSEUDOSCIENCE and WP:UNDUE is going to be a time-consuming process but it's the first step to getting our folklore coverage to a decent step. The process could use some more hands and eyes. :bloodofox: ( talk) 02:37, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
Please see Jytdog ( talk) 04:54, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
I was recently made aware of urban acupuncture. I get the feeling it needs a bit of scrutiny, but I don't really have time to delve into it right now. Thought it might interest some folks here. Kingofaces43 ( talk) 16:21, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
I was drawn to this by a reference to the Townsend Letter, which is a bit of a red flag. Apparently Root was responsible for "pioneering the medical application of the Hubbard Purification Rundown to treat occupational chemical exposure injuries and advancing its mainstream medical acceptance". The Hubbard in question is L. Ron Hubbard, and the Purification Rundown is the core of Scientology's fraudulent Narconon programme. The article seems to me to contain some dodgy sourcing and the lede is definitely an issue. Guy ( Help!) 09:59, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
I recently undid an edit made by Roland zh, adding cats such as Indian scientists to one homeopath Mukesh Batra. I'm not sure what's the exact reasoning but I think more such alternative medicine practitioners who got the Padma Shri have got similar edits. The Indian government puts all of those under medicine, thus we have such people in Category:Recipients of the Padma Shri in medicine. If Roland zh does not re-check them, it would be hard to check among the numerous categorisations or use external tools like Catscan. Ugog Nizdast ( talk) 18:08, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
Then, I came across Category:Indian medical doctors which contained Category:Indian homeopaths, Category:Ayurvedacharyas and Category:Ancient Indian physicians. I've just removed them and it turns out it has been there for years.
I've never made many edits to such topics, so posting here for help. I mainly did it linking WP:FRINGE/PS. Such categorisation will probably be a recurring issue and I wonder isn't there anything else to cite while making such edits? Ugog Nizdast ( talk) 18:08, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
I would like if someone can have a look and help verify this supposed "Baron" who, according to one tabloid report, is actually an internet fraudster. I'm unable to find reliable sources. -- Lemongirl942 ( talk) 18:14, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
New IP at article wants it to say rock structures rather than rock formations, and from the talk page I don't think they like me! Doug Weller talk 16:34, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
This article currently expresses in Wikivoice that racial differences in intelligence are an open question. To my knowledge and reading of this subject in the world, this is a fringe theory with racist overtones and import promoted by a few infamous sources like The Bell Curve and the unfortunate and weird statements by James Watson and otherwise by White Supremacist groups and the like.
I am no fan of the whole idea of "fringe" within Wikipedia for i think that all the goals can be achieved better through the policies of WP:V and WP:NPOV but if there's going to exist the idea of fringe then does it apply here in your estimation? Why or why not? Should this article ( Race and intelligence) be updated to make it clear that hypotheses about racial disparity of intelligence are bogus? Why or why not? SageRad ( talk) 12:20, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
Here is a description of Black Brain, White Brain: Is Intelligence Skin Deep? by Gavin Evans, a source that refutes the premise that there are inherent racial differences in intelligence. This source is over one year old and is not cited in the article yet. This source refutes, for instance, the Nicholas Wade articles. We need to integrate this source and its content in the article. To quote Evans:
And yet the widespread combination of misplaced faith in the immutability of IQ and misplaced faith in the ability of genes to determine behaviour has allowed their claims to fester away, unchallenged in the public arena. The problem in not challenging these bad ideas promptly and vigorously goes way beyond their flawed science. If the public and its opinion makers come to accept notions like Wade’s – such as that Africans are, by nature, none-too-bright tribalists – we’ll be in danger of returning to the dangerous mentality that formed the ballast for colonialism and slavery.
SageRad ( talk) 20:05, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
Off to a murder mystery dinner, but this needs attention. Chinese in Canada before Columbus nonsense. Doug Weller talk 18:08, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
FYI DYK there is a Russian stand-up comedian who has a skit that America was in fact discovered by Uzbeks, and "America" etymology is amir- aka. Staszek Lem ( talk) 22:23, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
Freshly minted article written from whole cloth by a WP:SPA. "A new type of pharmaceutical companies have been developing, based on the Bioregulatory concept, such as Heel gmbh." Heel are a homeopathy manufacturer, bit of a red flag there. What's not advertorial looks to me to be synthesis, replete with accusations of reductionism and claims for the holistic woo. But is this notable bollocks? Guy ( Help!) 23:12, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
I moved the article under the decap title and immediately detected Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bioregulatory medicine and lots of socks. Is this a recreation? Can anybody of admins to compare the contents of this version and the deleted one? Staszek Lem ( talk) 00:42, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
Having a dispute over this edit with another user. Discussion is at Talk:David_Wolfe_(nutritionist)#.3F. Classic sort of issue. Please comment. Thx Jytdog ( talk) 03:34, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
@ Jytdog: Nice job fixing the article! ThePlatypusofDoom (talk) 15:47, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
This page is an archive. Do not edit the contents of this page. Please direct any additional comments to the current main page. |
Hello folks. I'd like to draw attention to our current coverage of cryptozoology and to four Wikipedia articles in particular: cryptozoology, cryptid, cryptobotany, and list of cryptids.
First, a little context: For those unfamiliar, cryptozoology is, plain and simple, classic pseudoscience. In short, cryptozoology is pretend biology with the pesky science thrown out while excitedly gazing at the folklore record—without any desire for an introductory course in folkloristics. This culminates to form a wrong-headed game of monster-hunting (was it a dinosaur?). Today cryptozoology only lives on the internet and, it would seem, is most notably (and most unknowingly) aided by Wikipedia's current lack of a solid crackdown. Academic institutions won't touch it with a stick.
And I'm sure this sort of monster hunting as a group activity is fun and all but academic it ain't. In fact, it's often presented at the expense of how this material should be handled: by folklorists. Instead of the why, how, and when a being or entity developed among a group of people and how academics have analyzed it from any number of angles over the past few hundred years, the folklore of myriad peoples is all too often reduced to some guy or girl writing an article about it with the key point of maybe-it-exists-and-we-can't-find-it-yet!.
Now, for years we've had cryptozoologists running amuck on Wikipedia, treating Wikipedia as their personal Pokémon database. This seems to be primarily due to a severe lack of folklorists contributing to Wikipedia (a folkloristics task force would have quickly nipped this in the bud). It's a bit like letting our articles on ghosts be guided by ghost-hunters ("paranormal investigators"—there was a cold spot!) or comparable to hollow earth theorists dictating the terms of our geology articles (no, no—there's another sun in there!). We don't allow it because a lot of people simply know a lot better.
Unfortunately, a lot of this stuff is obscure and not a lot of people around here are familiar with the study of folklore nor are they generally aware of what cryptozoology is. It's been a constant battle to keep this stuff at bay and often requires extensive explanation that, no, cryptozoology isn't a science (hey, but it could be a hidden dinosaur, right?). At various points, users—such as myself—have removed some of the most noxious examples of the situation from Wikipedia but there are still many articles on the site that claim that some entity or being from the folklore of some group or another is a "cryptid"—a monster waiting to be found (hiding dinosaur, of course). Where it still occurs, this is a pretty clear cut violation of WP:UNDUE and WP:FRINGE that would be instantly zapped like a grocery store moth were it not for the obscurity of some of these articles.
My goal in writing this to you folks is to implore you to help me reign this stuff in. It's for too long been out of control and we need to do something about it. Maybe a good place to start is with our coverage on cryptozoology itself. Right now, we've got separate articles for cryptid (a term used exclusively by cryptozoologists and not, for example, by folklorists), cryptobotany (same history and same people as cryptozoology, probably obscure to cryptozoologists—in fact, it's just cryptoozology but with plants and only yields a few pages of Google Books results (!)), and list of cryptids. The last list is absurd beyond reason: literally every creature that someone on the internet decides could be a cryptid can go on this list. The list could simply be replaced with an explanation of what a cryptid is on the cryptozoology page—right now it's just a nonsense magnet.
Shouldn't all of that just be handled at cryptozoology? What do you folks think? :bloodofox: ( talk) 06:51, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
A few years ago I came across List of cryptids filled to the brim with nonsense. I proposed a set of inclusion criteria, but didn't get much of a response. It's probably more conservative than I'd propose these days (might've been timid since I had no background with the page, and very little with the subject -- I just knew I saw a mess). So when nobody objected, I did some purging. Since then I've reverted now and again but haven't been diligent. I'd support something a bit more stringent (e.g. if there's no article, at least 3 sources or somesuch), but it's a notable list. The list might also be useful to serve as a home for some of the poorer articles. As for the other articles, I haven't looked at (and don't know enough about) cryptobotany to comment, but cryptid could just be merged into cryptozoology and list of cryptids as appropriate -- I don't see that that one really adds anything. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 12:58, 17 August 2016 (UTC) The section heading and "hidden dinosaur" made me laugh.
It doesn't help that you have pre-eminent wildlife biologists such as Jane Goodall who have expressed sympathy for cryptozoology as an endeavor. I get the impression it is more out of a romantic idealism than a true evaluation of what this morass entails. There is an excellent 2008 documentary called Not Your Typical Bigfoot Movie (clips here: [1], IMDB here: [2]) which shows in rather sympathetic detail how this subject is really one that transcends the simple pseudoscience being spouted and bleeds into questions of politics, economics, faith, and the conflict between cynical leeches and true believers. jps ( talk) 14:12, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
Good luck trying to do anything about most of these "cryptid" articles. There's a host of sympathetic editors that seem to keep the articles in their current state. Many of them have atrocious sourcing though. They probably wouldn't survive AFD which might bring more eyes. Most editors are probably unaware most of these articles even exist. Capeo ( talk) 20:42, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
Maybe someone has suggested this but I overlooked it in all the discussion: Yes, it's fringe. The proper way to present all this info is from the academic disciplines: anthropology, sociology, folklore studies, etc. If aspects of the crypto-x worlds (terminology, individuals, beliefs, etc) are notable enough to deserve their own articles, they should be presented with the proper context of the academic disciplines rather than the pseudoscience. -- Ronz ( talk) 21:02, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
There is currently a request for comment on an issue involving WP:FRINGE at Talk:Frankfurt_School#RfC:_Does_the_lede_of_the_.22Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory.22_section_follow_WP:NPOV_and_is_its_claim_supported_by_cited_sources.3F - editors are encouraged to have a look and help form consensus. -- Jobrot ( talk) 19:11, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
I've reverted an account for adding text such as "From her personal and non-scientific standpoint, she nevertheless" and an IP for removing sourced text they didn't like, both in the last few hours. I'd prefer not to revert again today. Doug Weller talk 11:33, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
Prophet_Yahweh ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Prophet_Yahweh - — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rhoark ( talk • contribs) 15:59, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
Just an FYI. If one of you FRINGE folks happen to be an AfC reviewer, and want to take a look at this small novel, that would be...uh...welcome. Seems obviously fringy, but I'm not really an expert. TimothyJosephWood 18:16, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
This BLP of a handsome chap (I googled him) never got deleted after an AfD " delete" result. There is some handwaving at the talk page. My interest was sparked by this entry at COIN.
Much Some of the sourcing is to a website by another handsome chap called Mike Adams, who seems a little confused about reality. The same ref appears three different times on the reflist, and is cited more than thrice.
What to do? - Roxy the dog™ bark 08:53, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
Ruggero Santilli is up for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ruggero Santilli (2nd nomination). Please comment there. Sławomir Biały ( talk) 12:00, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
Recently, an editor removed the word "false" from the article Sherri Tenpenny in response to an edit request on the article's talk page. Prior to this word being removed, the article stated that "She supports the false beliefs that vaccines cause autism, asthma, ADHD and autoimmune disorders." Is it, in the opinion of other editors, a violation of WP:NPOV or WP:BLP to include the word "false" in this sentence? Everymorning (talk) 01:50, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
K.e.coffman has been aggressively (though, so far, within the bounds of RR) deleting [21] this section (titled "Specific claims") of content that notes videos and photos cited by conspiracy theorists who believe in the "Healther" hoax were manipulated or taken out of context. Some additional eyes would be appreciated so this doesn't turn into a pro-CT article. LavaBaron ( talk) 05:52, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
An AfD that falls within the scope of this noticeboard -- interested editors are invited to participate. K.e.coffman ( talk) 19:09, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
You can cut and paste this: [[Category:Promoters of pseudoscience]]
Editors recommended to rename the cat. See Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 August 12#Category:People accused of pseudoscience. That's exactly what I did. The cat can be added to an article where a person is known to be a promoter of pseudoscience. Edit wisely, QuackGuru ( talk) 08:52, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
I know Jimbo Wales can resolve this issue if the cat is deleted. Wales speaks to the media, but editors on Wikipedia want results. See WP:QUACKS. Wales can start a new cat called [[Category:Purveyors of pseudoscience]]. Thoughts? QuackGuru ( talk) 21:05, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
on the talk page, cut'n'pasted from the subject talk page. A combative advocate given to personal attacks. I originally thought it was a persistent driveby (what looked like sandboxing) (removal of criticism) so set the article to autoconfirmed, but the editor claims to be spearheading a call to action. More eyes needed - David Gerard ( talk) 09:22, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
Editors views are solicited on the talk page thread captioned Deletion of Rewards. SPECIFICO talk 20:09, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
An Rfc has been posted here. It could use comments by editors who are well-versed in sourcing and editing policy. SPECIFICO talk 01:53, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
I normally avoid religious topics for the standard reason, but I'm running up against 3RR on Richard Carrier because of a Christian editor Gonzales_John ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) who insists Christ Myth Theory is a conspiracy theory and keeps putting that phrase into Carrier's biography. He also has ripped out tons of text from the article with (IMHO) misleading edit summaries. I've restored most of that text and engaged with him on his talk page, but he's already trying my patience with super verbose replies to my requests ( footnotes on a talk page? really?). Doubting the Historicity of Jesus as a fringe theory has come up before on this noticeboard - here are just a few links to previous discussions: Feb 2013, Aug 2013 Sept 2014 and April 2016. Anyway, would appreciate a few eyes on what's going on over there. As I said I'm not super experienced on religious edit wars. -- Krelnik ( talk) 13:31, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
Editors are invited to review and comment at Talk:Jill Stein#RfC: Should the article discuss a crowd-funded YouTube documentary or include a quotation from Chris Hedges stating that "the Democratic Party is one of the engines for ... proto-fascism," or include similar content?. Neutrality talk 19:36, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
The theory that the natives of Britain were exterminated is generally considered highly unlikely by all sources, except for one source claiming the opposite. I do not think one source is enough grounds for accepting the theory as necessary for acknowledgement.
"Weale et al. is very recent scholarship and it claimed that 50% to 100% of English genetics derives from North Germany. Most other recent scholarship does not agree with this extreme view." - Urselius (on talk page)
An extreme view seems to be a fringe theory. Besides, Weale's study does not even give evidence to extermination unless the number was 100%. But the number is between 50 and 100 allowing a certain number of natives to survive. Thus, my case is that no contemporary source supports the extermination theory and should be edited for lacking sources. Gordon410 ( talk) 15:45, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
A secondary source provides an author's own thinking based on primary sources, generally at least one step removed from an event. It contains an author's analysis, evaluation, interpretation, or synthesis of the facts, evidence, concepts, and ideas taken from primary sources.That describes more or less what Thomas has done using the Domesday book and Weale's 2002 genetics research as primary sources. Rhoark ( talk) 13:55, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
Lonnie Zamora incident ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) Huge article, often editorializes in favor of the UFOlogy fringe view in Wikipedia's voice, and no independent reliable sources. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 13:39, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
See Shearer, Christine; et al. (10 August 2016). "Quantifying expert consensus against the existence of a secret, large-scale atmospheric spraying program". Environmental Research Letters. 11 (8): 084011. Bibcode: 2016ERL....11h4011S. doi: 10.1088/1748-9326/11/8/084011.
Being discussed here: Talk:Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory#New_paper Jytdog ( talk) 04:21, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
I believe there is a false accusation of WP:FRINGE at Talk:Ürümqi#Demographics. Views expressed in an RS source by a University Professor, James Millward, are getting called fringe for no good reason. Rajmaan ( talk) 16:47, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
[29] [30] Professor of Chinese and Central Asian History James A. Millward
The book in question was published by Stanford University Press
False accusations of WP:FRINGE and WP:UNDUE are being hurled with no reference to any of the content of those guidelines. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rajmaan ( talk • contribs) 13:25, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
There are some remaining unresolved issues with this article which could benefit from extra input. As I see it the issues include:
Alexbrn ( talk) 18:00, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
Alexbrn, you wrote "Yes, I think whether quackery is due in the lede, is debatable." Are you willing to have quackery be removed from the lede (with it still remaining in Reception)? As you previously discussed, this would not affect "pseudoscience" or the cost/safety elements in the lede.-- Karinpower ( talk) 03:11, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
Also of concern here now is new accounts warping in with apparently WP:PROFRINGE edits - e.g. [33] [34] Recruiting or something going on? Alexbrn ( talk) 06:14, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
David Wilcock ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
This is just plain WP:SOAPy. It almost reads like a paid promotional piece. Are there any WP:FRIND sources available about this fellow?
jps ( talk) 00:13, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
Could anyone please pay attention to the article on Soka Gakkai. To my mind it is in breach with a number of guidelines in place already mentioned in the talk page. I am not an active editor. -- Tonisana2 ( talk) 10:05, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
I seriously want to nuke this spammy article, but it may be a notable subject. Does anyone know? Guy ( Help!) 12:51, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
Diversified technique ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
The article was restored with two non-independent sources. There was a previous discussion for the Diversified technique page. See Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard/Archive 50#Diversified technique. QuackGuru ( talk) 18:29, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
This is a pretty bad article, but is it bollocks or ist it just that the stuff is mainly used in countries which are not part fo the medical mainstream? Guy ( Help!) 12:14, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
This is a pretty bad article, a sort of catch-all for all sorts of stuff. See Talk:Proposed Book of Mormon geographical setting#Various issues: WP:UNDUE, lists of proponents, bad sourcing. Doug Weller talk 16:30, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
See Talk:Michael_Greger#Request_for_comments_on_SBM_source Jytdog ( talk) 03:07, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
The talk page for Diesel engine ( Talk:Diesel engine) contains a discussion and an RfC about the contributions of George Brayton. His Brayton engine used the Brayton cycle to do something similar to Rudolf Diesel's engine. I have some WP:FRINGE, WP:OR and WP:NPOV concerns about the additions being proposed. I was invited to the RfC by the RfC service and there are only a couple of editors participating in the discussion. Roches ( talk) 03:19, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
A strikingly uncritical biography of a "pioneer in the field of integrative healthcare", virtually every word of whihc was written by one or other of two WP:SPAs, one of whose usernames clearly suggests a connection to the subject. Guy ( Help!) 06:48, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
This article could do with some in-depth sources, as it currently represents the fringe content of the film uncritically. Guy ( Help!) 11:56, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
This article was started by one of the main promoters of the term, Iratrofimov ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), discussion of whose work makes up half the article and whose primary research also dominates the references. That's a bit red-flaggy for me. Guy ( Help!) 11:23, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
Is it just me, or does Lake Tianchi Monster ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) sound a little credulous? Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk, contributions) 14:20, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
The article makes it pretty clear that TFT is bogus, but an IP is edit-warring to include the following as the closing para of the lede:
References
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cite web}}
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help)
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cite web}}
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help)
This seems to me to be WP:UNDUE, it is also WP:PRIMARY (to say nothing of special pleading). I suspect the article might need semiprotection to stop this, but someone here might feel that the content can be used in some form lower in the article. Guy ( Help!) 07:55, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
Lew Childre ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
I sense that this person may be notable given the outside criticism of his institute, but I'd like others to consider this too. His father may actually be more notable than he, but alas, no article.
jps ( talk) 18:55, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Marilyn Hamilton
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Integral City (2nd nomination)
Comment, please. jps ( talk) 20:58, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
Both were relisted, so additional input would be appreciated. jps ( talk) 13:05, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
This yet-another-radical-reworking of Christian origins by non-scholar Joseph Atwill has a rather peculiar article which cannot decide how to approach this conspiracy theory. Bart Ehrman of course savages it but we could use something a little better than his blog-post-before-he-had-even-read-it response. Mangoe ( talk) 02:58, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
A couple of editors over at
Ethereum repeatedly assert that this Ethereum page is
WP:FRINGE (also making similar assertions relating to
The DAO (organization)) and therefore delete large swaths of content added, asserting compliance is required with
WP:FRIND. See a current discussion here relating at
Talk:Ethereum#Coin_desk. I thought I would create this entry here at this message board and seek consensus if this is the correct venue and if this is in fact a Fringe article. This issue is currently manifesting in a discussion if
CoinDesk (a
cryptocurrency news site) can be a
WP:RS on the
Ethereum page, and if sources on this page much . Similar ad nauseam discussions has been going on for at least 6 months (many previous discussions archived) with much content deleted, reverts, and endless back and forth... So I thought I would shine some light on it here to see if the page is indeed Fringe, and also do a noticeboard posting to see if
CoinDesk is an RS for this page located here
Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#CoinDesk_and_CoinTelegraph_on_the_article_Ethereum. Is my approach correct? Thank you
Jtbobwaysf (
talk) 10:26, 31 August 2016 (UTC) I have stuck some of my comments above to attempt to focus this discussion, as I think I have conflated the subject a bit. Apologies
Jtbobwaysf (
talk) 12:44, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
This article recently survived, albeit barely,
an AfD nomination. Subsequently a number of editors, acting I believe in good faith, have taken it upon themselves to edit this article in a manner that effectively has deleted it it in all but name. It has been reduced to a stub that contains exactly one sentence that can be connected to the title of the article. the rest is a nakedly anti-conspiracy theory essay. I am no fan of conspiracy theories and in fact agree with the views expressed in the article essay. But this is clearly an end run around an AfD that didn't go the way they wanted. And the result is an article that has been turned into an anti-conspiracy theory POV hit piece. Like I said, I oppose the use of the project for the promotion of fringe theories, but this is not right. I am reluctant to mass revert edits but if you want to delete the article it should be done in an above board manner. The last AfD ended in no consensus. I suggest restoring most of the redacted material and renominating it. Or alternatively editing it in a way that does not constitute de-facto deletion. (cross posting from
the talk page -
Ad Orientem (
talk) 18:14, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
This is a monograph by a WP:SPA. It reads to me as WP:SYN or promotion of a non-notable neologism, but it's not my field. Anyone know if it's cromulent or not? Guy ( Help!) 20:43, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
I trimmed claims of the health benefits and altered states arising from immersion in an isolation tank, but the subject appears to be controversial. Additional fringe-savvy eyes will no doubt usefully inform consensus. Alexbrn ( talk) 20:01, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
References
Mainly primary sources,reads at least in large part like something they might distribute as a primer. I haven't looked at the related articles. Doug Weller talk 20:13, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
http://bjoern.brembs.net/2016/01/even-without-retractions-top-journals-publish-the-least-reliable-science/ Rhoark ( talk) 18:57, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
It is proposed that the Journal of Scientific Exploration page be merged into the Society for Scientific Exploration page. QuackGuru ( talk) 02:05, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
An IP is adding their view of when this Indian mythological battle happened using a slideshow they uploaded to a random website and appears to be extremely persistent. Additional eyes and comments would be helpful. Ravensfire ( talk) 12:36, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
Came across Amy L. Lansky and thought I would bring attention to it here. Some really terrible sources are used (Mercola, Natural medicine, Homeopathy.org etc). Was originally going to trim it back, but seeing as most of the remaining sources are primary ones and not much appears in google (a few reviews of her book and more of the same dodgy sources) I was thinking it was a good candidate for deletion. Does the AAAI Classic Paper Award add any notability and is Psycology today at all reliable. I wouldn't have thought so after reading [37], but they apparently have a lot of experts [38]. AIRcorn (talk) 22:33, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
Looks entirely single sourced and self promotional. Came across an article of his on "Spirit Science" and wanted to see if he was an actual doctor. Please take a look at this article. - Xcuref1endx ( talk) 16:24, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
Some discussion [39] about whether a source's description of The McDougall Plan as a "fad diet" can be reflected in Wikipedia. More eyes welcome. Alexbrn ( talk) 06:20, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
I notice that the March Against Monsanto page doesn't seem to discuss the organization's stance on various topics, even though they are commonly brought up on the group's Facebook page and official website. They are anti-vaccine and promote belief in chemtrails. See here and here for examples of those on their Facebook page, though there are plenty more such posts. They also have an official article on their website about their anti-vaccine stance, which you can see here.
Isn't this the sort of topic that should be discussed in their article due to it being one of their primary topics of discussion (and targets, I guess one could say)? The problem is that this pseudoscience side of the group is not really discussed by secondary sources. The best you get is other pseudoscience-esque pages like Collective Evolution covering it. So, only primary sources from the group themselves exist. Is that good enough to include their stance on such things in their WP article? Silver seren C 01:20, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
Incidentally, this thread reminds me that we don't have an article on anti-GMO activism which, I think, would be useful. jps ( talk) 12:32, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
started working on this - if anybody wants to work on it too fine by me.. Jytdog ( talk) 20:20, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
Bump. More eyes would be great. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 13:38, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
I've never looked closely at this article, and I'm wondering if it would be best to get some more eyes from here. The article doesn't look like it follows FRINGE in the lede or body. Rather it appears to weigh alt-med sources and pov's over others. I don't recall seeing vox.com discussed as a source for alt med topics, but http://www.vox.com/2014/12/31/7438565/detox looks like a fairly good introduction including the history. -- Ronz ( talk) 21:09, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
What is this about? https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Mother%27s_Agenda&type=revision&diff=739979564&oldid=655587251 Doug with no PC Internet connection who hates his ipad
New article about a fringe author claiming Muhammad lived in Petra. Needs work. Doug Weller talk 18:25, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
Whilst idly following some breadcrumbs, I came across this article. "Milton Wainwright (born 1950) is a British microbiologist who is known for his research into what he claims could be extraterrestrial life found in the stratosphere." (I'll note that the original text when first created was "Milton Wainwright is a british microbiologist who became world famous for his discovery of the particle of alliend and therefore proving the existence of the alien life.")
The references and support look awfully thin to me. Is he "world famous" enough for an article? -- Calton | Talk 12:07, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
Fringe author writing on the history of Islam. Seems to be some OR here and too much dependence on his work. When I get my replacement modem/router and am off my iPad (useless for Goole Books for some reason) I'll try to find time for it. Doug Weller talk 18:25, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
Oops. Posted about this yesterday, sorry. Doug Weller talk 18:25, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
Heads-up: a brand new user has decided to "help" us by making the article on Targ more "neutral" (by which I mean that he casts the reality-based view as being held only by a handful of those evil science shill skeptics). Guy ( Help!) 10:01, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
Category talk:Violence against men#Which version is better?.
Note that the fringe theory being pushed is the MRA proposal that domestic violence against men and domestic violence against women are categorically equivalent.
jps ( talk) 18:16, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
Sorry, but this sounds too much like CANVASSING to me. Also, in what ways is this a MRA proposal? Could you please explain? I do not intend to be rude or unpleasant, I merely wish to understand. I agree with you on other things, but on this issue I disagree. 79.66.16.141 ( talk) 17:28, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
He's a former Russian Orthodox monk, formally condemned by the church. According to the independent sources, he seems to be a promoter of anti-Jewish conspiracies and was a local street activist/preacher in Summit County, Colorado. Most of the article is sourced to primary sources, or not sourced at all. The article needs a complete rewrite from the secondary sources. --
Ronz (
talk) 16:13, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
Pgbrux ( talk · contribs)' blocked before for editwarring on this, has hit 3rr, violating our sourcing policy and NPOV. But I've reverted him twice and am about to turn off my light! Doug Weller talk 21:12, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
Could use some additional eyes on Climate Hustle, which has seen several pov additions in the past few days and a lengthy new talk page message. I've responded, but something tells me my response won't effectively assuage their concerns. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 23:21, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
The article Wireless power transfer has been a battleground for years due to extremely persistent efforts to insert an alternate theory that around 1900 Nikola Tesla transmitted electric power around the world using something called a Zenneck wave. This has been mentioned previously on this page: Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard/Archive_44#World_Wireless_System The conflict is heating up again. Would be very helpful to have editors take a good long look at the recent Talk page discussion and express their opinion. Hope to have some editors watchlist this page and participate in future discussions, as it looks to be a continuing thing. Cheers! -- Chetvorno TALK 03:53, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#Morgellons. Interested in folks' thoughts there. Jytdog ( talk) 07:16, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
Zerona ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
New AfD up for discussion: WP:Articles_for_deletion/Zerona. The article is a very promotional about a laser device that "busts fat." Delta13C ( talk) 06:28, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
I am wondering if this theory should be mentioned in any way this draft. I am generally of the opinion that articles should be comprehensive, but it's clearly a fringe theory and I am leaning towards not mentioning it at all. What is the common practice for such things? Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk, contributions) 16:39, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
see Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Can_article_titles_be_used_as_sources.3F Jytdog ( talk) 04:16, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
Edit summaries like "Page returned to original state with listed references following attempt to alter it with deleterious statements. This page was started to inform readers about voice stress analysis. Start another page if you wish to write negative and onesided comments" do not inspire confidence. VSA is, of course, distinctly fringe. Guy ( Help!) 17:27, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
The article Joachim Helbig has been nominated for community GA reassessment as per WP:GAR.
The discussion will take place at GAR:Joachim Helbig, with the goal to reach a consensus whether the article satisfies the good article criteria. Any input would be welcome.
I believe that this GAR is within the scope of this noticeboard due to the use of what I'd describe as fringe sources, including Franz Kurowski, two works published by a German right-wing publisher, and a self-published source.
Any input would be welcome. K.e.coffman ( talk) 03:17, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
@ K.e.coffman:, I disagreed with you on the Knight's Cross articles, but here I am in agreement. I'm still not convinced that pro-Nazi material is per se fringe. Racial theories, Nazi archaeology, antisemitic propaganda, and so on would be fringe, and Holocaust denial is fringe, but I see this as an NPOV issue rather than a fringe issue. Nevertheless, I commented on why I believe Helbig should be GAR-delisted based on the neutrality criterion as well as the RS criterion. Roches ( talk) 21:24, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
some more eyes would be useful. Jytdog ( talk) 06:31, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
Article for Deletion: A fringe practitioner (naturopath and chiropractor) who does not appear notable beyond the naturopathic community, since Bastyr University bears his name. Delta13C ( talk) 08:46, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
Hmmm. Just came across this today and am trying to figure out what to make of it. Pubmed search for reviews here (more expansive here). Seems like an effort aimed at correcting a perceived sexism in medical theory and research about the HPA axis and the fight or flight response (with an equally catchy name); just not sure if this is a real thing or a pet theory.... and when I say "not sure" i really mean "not sure". Jytdog ( talk) 16:04, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
A team of AAH proponents are removing mentions of "pseudoscience" from the article, and argueing that the theory has been met with greater acceptance in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, based on a BBC proigram in whiuch David Attenborough (a non scientist and ling time proponent) states that the theory is now gaining acceptance. ·maunus · snunɐɯ· 05:39, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
(This clearly falls under "fringe theories" as the notion that a reenactor web site can be used for an encyclopedic citation is clearly out of the mainstream. :-) )
I would appreciate additional attention to the article, where I was reverted twice due to the editor's insistence on using a Wehrmacht reenactment web site as a source for a citation. Please see: Talk:11th_Panzer_Division_(Wehrmacht)#11thpanzer.com. K.e.coffman ( talk) 00:37, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
I came across this article via the edits of an IP editor ( Special:Contributions/94.60.196.117) inserting neo-Nazi publications into articles. The article is in need of a cleaning up and could use some RS. I cleaned up the lead, but it was a drop in the bucket due to the amount of neo-Nazi fancruft. K.e.coffman ( talk) 20:26, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
Nicole, first and foremost, please read and understand our basic rule about writing articles: WP:CITE, WP:RS and don't write unreferenced personal essays. May be your topics are valid, but you are not convincing anybody with your personal views on the subject. References in the articles, please, which directly discuss the term in the title of the article you are editing. Staszek Lem ( talk) 16:39, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
Please read " talk:politics of outer space" for the discussion on sources, and current uses of the terms "astropolitics" and "exopolitics." Regardless of the origin of the terms (e.g. your Webre citation), the term "exopolitics" has become mainstream enough to be included in a number of major publications such as Astronomy magazine. The etymology is fairly simple and uncontroversial, with "exo-" simply meaning "outside the atmosphere," which does cover both Terran and any hypothetical extraterrestrial spaceflight (e.g. technically "astronauts" are really "exonauts," since Terran astronauts do not have the technology yet to visit the stars [astra]). The usage of "exopolitics" in UFO conspiracy theories has already been addressed on the discussion page for the "politics of outer space." Nicole Sharp ( talk) 18:27, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
An WP:ACTIVIST editor included Communist propaganda outlets (for the germane WP:PAG see WP:BLOGS) and the viewpoint of Voice of Russia stated in Wikipedia's voice at [42]. He believes that WP:NPOV means being mid-way between independent, reliable Western sources and Communist propaganda. Tgeorgescu ( talk) 19:11, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
Discussion at Talk:Romania#NPOV Dispute. Tgeorgescu ( talk) 19:20, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
dcnews.ro is an "online journal" with a redaction consisting of three people, see http://www.dcnews.ro/redactie/ Tgeorgescu ( talk) 19:29, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
The Pro-Nazi leader Ion Antonescu, executed by the Communists long ago, is listed as one of the writers of art-emis.ro, see http://www.art-emis.ro/autori.html Tgeorgescu ( talk) 19:33, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
The claim of "economic lynching of Romania" is a hysterical claim of a paranoid conspiracy theory. Tgeorgescu ( talk) 19:56, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
http://www.dailybusiness.ro/despre-noi/ does not claim having editorial control or fact checking. Tgeorgescu ( talk) 20:14, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
This looks like WP:SYN to me, hence Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nano brain, but others may know more about ti and actually be able to identify a source that's (a) rel;iable and (b) about the subject as stated. Maybe the title is wrong, I don't know. Guy ( Help!) 09:35, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
Came across this article via the Troy Southgate cluster. The article has potentially problematic POV as its using Southgate as a source and quotes him extensively. Possibly created as a (neo-Nazi) tribute, although it uses some RS. However, it's difficult to untangle the two. K.e.coffman ( talk) 00:17, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
Mindbogglingly, there is actually such a thing as "National Anarchism". It's pretty much "nazis who don't like being told what to do". They've actually come up with an "anarchism" that makes actual anarchists hate them even more than they hate ancaps. The RationalWiki article has some non-Nazi paper sources that might be useful if someone can find them and look them up - David Gerard ( talk) 10:54, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
An IP keeps deleting a couple paragraphs calling it pseudoscience. ThePlatypusofDoom (talk) 20:40, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
Hey folks. So, I think I've found a use for the inane list of cryptids article: identifying articles from folklore and zoology that cryptozoologists have hijacked over the past several years and cleaning them up.
For those following the sad saga of Wikipedia as a former cryptozoology playground, exactly how bad the situation is with many articles can be seen with some of the articles I haven't gotten to yet. Essentially any article regarding an entity from the folklore record appears to have been fair game to internet cryptozoologists, whether it's an obscure entity from regional Japanese folk belief or a half-read report on a potentially new canid species as reported by a biologist.
Anyway, enforcing WP:PSEUDOSCIENCE and WP:UNDUE is going to be a time-consuming process but it's the first step to getting our folklore coverage to a decent step. The process could use some more hands and eyes. :bloodofox: ( talk) 02:37, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
Please see Jytdog ( talk) 04:54, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
I was recently made aware of urban acupuncture. I get the feeling it needs a bit of scrutiny, but I don't really have time to delve into it right now. Thought it might interest some folks here. Kingofaces43 ( talk) 16:21, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
I was drawn to this by a reference to the Townsend Letter, which is a bit of a red flag. Apparently Root was responsible for "pioneering the medical application of the Hubbard Purification Rundown to treat occupational chemical exposure injuries and advancing its mainstream medical acceptance". The Hubbard in question is L. Ron Hubbard, and the Purification Rundown is the core of Scientology's fraudulent Narconon programme. The article seems to me to contain some dodgy sourcing and the lede is definitely an issue. Guy ( Help!) 09:59, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
I recently undid an edit made by Roland zh, adding cats such as Indian scientists to one homeopath Mukesh Batra. I'm not sure what's the exact reasoning but I think more such alternative medicine practitioners who got the Padma Shri have got similar edits. The Indian government puts all of those under medicine, thus we have such people in Category:Recipients of the Padma Shri in medicine. If Roland zh does not re-check them, it would be hard to check among the numerous categorisations or use external tools like Catscan. Ugog Nizdast ( talk) 18:08, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
Then, I came across Category:Indian medical doctors which contained Category:Indian homeopaths, Category:Ayurvedacharyas and Category:Ancient Indian physicians. I've just removed them and it turns out it has been there for years.
I've never made many edits to such topics, so posting here for help. I mainly did it linking WP:FRINGE/PS. Such categorisation will probably be a recurring issue and I wonder isn't there anything else to cite while making such edits? Ugog Nizdast ( talk) 18:08, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
I would like if someone can have a look and help verify this supposed "Baron" who, according to one tabloid report, is actually an internet fraudster. I'm unable to find reliable sources. -- Lemongirl942 ( talk) 18:14, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
New IP at article wants it to say rock structures rather than rock formations, and from the talk page I don't think they like me! Doug Weller talk 16:34, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
This article currently expresses in Wikivoice that racial differences in intelligence are an open question. To my knowledge and reading of this subject in the world, this is a fringe theory with racist overtones and import promoted by a few infamous sources like The Bell Curve and the unfortunate and weird statements by James Watson and otherwise by White Supremacist groups and the like.
I am no fan of the whole idea of "fringe" within Wikipedia for i think that all the goals can be achieved better through the policies of WP:V and WP:NPOV but if there's going to exist the idea of fringe then does it apply here in your estimation? Why or why not? Should this article ( Race and intelligence) be updated to make it clear that hypotheses about racial disparity of intelligence are bogus? Why or why not? SageRad ( talk) 12:20, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
Here is a description of Black Brain, White Brain: Is Intelligence Skin Deep? by Gavin Evans, a source that refutes the premise that there are inherent racial differences in intelligence. This source is over one year old and is not cited in the article yet. This source refutes, for instance, the Nicholas Wade articles. We need to integrate this source and its content in the article. To quote Evans:
And yet the widespread combination of misplaced faith in the immutability of IQ and misplaced faith in the ability of genes to determine behaviour has allowed their claims to fester away, unchallenged in the public arena. The problem in not challenging these bad ideas promptly and vigorously goes way beyond their flawed science. If the public and its opinion makers come to accept notions like Wade’s – such as that Africans are, by nature, none-too-bright tribalists – we’ll be in danger of returning to the dangerous mentality that formed the ballast for colonialism and slavery.
SageRad ( talk) 20:05, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
Off to a murder mystery dinner, but this needs attention. Chinese in Canada before Columbus nonsense. Doug Weller talk 18:08, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
FYI DYK there is a Russian stand-up comedian who has a skit that America was in fact discovered by Uzbeks, and "America" etymology is amir- aka. Staszek Lem ( talk) 22:23, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
Freshly minted article written from whole cloth by a WP:SPA. "A new type of pharmaceutical companies have been developing, based on the Bioregulatory concept, such as Heel gmbh." Heel are a homeopathy manufacturer, bit of a red flag there. What's not advertorial looks to me to be synthesis, replete with accusations of reductionism and claims for the holistic woo. But is this notable bollocks? Guy ( Help!) 23:12, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
I moved the article under the decap title and immediately detected Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bioregulatory medicine and lots of socks. Is this a recreation? Can anybody of admins to compare the contents of this version and the deleted one? Staszek Lem ( talk) 00:42, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
Having a dispute over this edit with another user. Discussion is at Talk:David_Wolfe_(nutritionist)#.3F. Classic sort of issue. Please comment. Thx Jytdog ( talk) 03:34, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
@ Jytdog: Nice job fixing the article! ThePlatypusofDoom (talk) 15:47, 17 October 2016 (UTC)