I know that we haven't had contact previously, but that was quite a summary of recent events that you posting in the discussion. I just hope that others read it. -- Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 19:37, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
Thank you, Capeo, for your kind comments at [1] about my quality improvement efforts on Wikipedia to improve articles related to freedom of speech and censorship to higher levels of quality including WP:GA and WP:FA. Please also note that the article includes commentary from secondary sources written by women, including: Carly Milne, Regina Lynn, Annalee Newitz of AlterNet, author Violet Blue, author Audacia Ray, Bonnie Ruberg of The Village Voice, The Oxford Encyclopedia of Women in World History, Jessica Roy of The New York Observer, author Sarah Schaschek -- indeed, the majority of the secondary-source-commentary in the article itself is cited to female authors. Thanks again, — Cirt ( talk) 20:46, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Hello! Capeo,
There is a WikiProject about Freedom of speech, called WikiProject Freedom of speech. If you're interested, here are some easy things you can do:
|
Since the AN is closed, I figured I'd at least give a partial reply here: I certainly did not expect that mess. Frankly I like the suggestion that arbs themselves should enforce their sanctions (or perhaps a group of appointed admins?) What an utter mess though. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{ re}} 17:54, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
This message is sent at 12:53, 5 July 2015 (UTC) by Arbitration Clerk User:Penwhale via MassMessage on behalf of the Arbitration Committee. You are receiving this message because your name appears on this list and have not elected to opt-out of being notified of development in the arbitration case.
On 5 July, 2015, the following motion was passed and enacted:
Bringing this here, if I may, because it's not of truly general interest.
Yes, I've read the proposed decision with care, several times. If this chiefly concerns battleground behavior, and if the matter is as clear as so many people consider it, why not simply topic-ban and/or block LB in the usual way? Or, if admins could not agree that this was battleground behavior, address that disagreement and let it stop there.
With regard to the WP:OUTING questions, if LB had been a hardened miscreant and had actually doxxed her alleged harasser using an alias -- even a transparent alias -- then she would not have been sanctionable. Indeed, it appears no harassment can incur censure if the harasser claims that it was performed by someone else, or even if the harasser can claim that it might have been performed by someone else. Wikipedia appears to condone harassing and even extortionate behavior while showing scant concern for its editors or for outsiders harassed on our pages. Is that the community we want? MarkBernstein ( talk) 18:35, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
To begin we see some of the recent Arb cases differently. I agree the GG case was bad and basically wrote a roadmap for concerted offsite efforts to push a particular POV on WP. Though that has been happening in one form or another for a long time. From what I understand Sitush has been through a pretty nightmarish scenario that highly effected even his everyday life outside of WP. I think ArbCom got GGTF and the LB case mostly right though. You're not going to please the public who had no real idea what was going on and you can't just ignore highly disruptive behavior simply because you're worried how it's going to be perceived when you ban people. That would be a massive disservice to editors.
As far as transparency in Arb cases dealing with private information, how is that really achievable? I'll note you still didn't really answer my question above ;). What's the standard of proof and how far should we go to attain it? Because if you wrongly ban someone for something as horrible as offsite sexual harassment that person could conceivably incur serious real life repercussions. Is that really a responsibility that should be in the hands of a bunch of volunteers pursuing what amounts to a hobby? Honestly I can't see that responsibility falling on the shoulders of anyone else but the WMF and I see them as dropping the ball on issues of harassment more than any part of the community itself. Volunteers start sticking their necks out to far concerning offsite activity and delving too far into privacy issues actually opens them up to litigation. That's a burden the WMF should handle but they somehow always get a free ride. Supposedly they do now investigate these things to some degree but clearly not very well. Capeo ( talk) 23:09, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
In situations such as the present one of outing vs harassment, engaging in speculation that directly connects a pseudonym to a real-life identity by constructing a house of cards, however sound the foundation may appear to be, amounts to a serious breach of responsibility unless the evidence meets a criminal standard of proof. And if it does meet that standard then I suspect the WMF will deal with it using their own terms of service etc even if local laws prevent a formal prosecution. Think of it as a duty of care where, on the one hand, an accuser remains anonymous and on the other an alleged perpetrator does not. Without information disclosure by ISPs, and bearing in mind the possibility of such things as malicious doppelganger accounts being created, there really is no way to make a certain connection. We all know of hoaxes that have existed here for years, and of multi-sock accounts that in some cases have avoided detection for similar periods.
The stuff that LB has been doing might look clever but that which she has made public is all circumstantial and once the genie is out of the bottle with a real-life connection, there is no putting it back. There was a case in the UK a few years ago when some idiot people mistook pedagogue for paedophile (or some such similar stupid failure to consult a dictionary) and went on a lynching spree.
Yes, Capeo, I had a horrific time. The WMF and police were helpful, and certain things of a legal nature happened as a consequence of their involvement. One part of the advice given to me by the police was to lie low. Unlike LB's situation, the problematic people could find me. - Sitush ( talk) 10:20, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
I agree that care must be taken. But care must also be taken for people who are harassed here, for editors whose silence is extorted by threat, and for those who are harassed on these pages though they do not edit here. The absence of expressed concern in Gamergate was upsetting; the repetition here was shocking as it must be an intentional omission. We are offered vague assurances that WMF might do something someday -- perhaps issue a press release again? -- but concrete assistance and policy protections are being delivered to off-site harassers, whose activities some are now accepting and normalizing as a regrettable but routine part of Wikipedia.
Choosing to lower your profile or to leave Wikipedia may well be excellent options for individuals; this was offered as the mandatory response for all victims of sexual harassment, and that proposal was in fact shameful. Today, another editor at Talk:PD is proposing that sexual harassment on Wikipedia is always the victim’s fault because on Wikipedia no one knows your gender unless you disclose it; I fancy I do not need to unpack that here. MarkBernstein ( talk) 13:29, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
Editors can also notify their local law enforcement and consider lowering their profile until the threat is past.(my emphasis). As examples of the people to whom I was actually referring, please do your homework on people calling themselves Demiurge, Neotarf etc. I mean, getting banned from WP is one thing, getting banned also from WPO is quite another. There is rotten-ness in all states, not just the one with which you are at war. - Sitush ( talk) 14:14, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
Thanks again, Capeo and Sitush. I don't think we're all that far apart on this. I hope I've convinced you that I'm not entirely a fire-breathing ogre. I have seen references to the editors you mention, and perhaps recall campfire stories about them, but I don’t believe I've actually crossed their path. MarkBernstein ( talk) 16:35, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
Hey Capeo, in your last comment in your section of the Lightbreather Arbitration case, you made a comment which you addressed to me by pinging my username. I think you might have mistaken me for SlimVirgin or someone else. I was not involved in that Arbitration case and rarely edit Wikipedia these days. I only noticed it because I happened to sign in tonight and received your ping. I attempted to unlink my name but was reverted for modifying someone else's comment. I was hoping that you might be able to remove the link on my name. I really don't want it to look like I was involved in an Arbitation case when I wasn't. Thank you very much. Cheers, Sarah 13:41, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
For your comment at Malik's ArbCom "case". I suspect we all could use a few. Drmies ( talk) 16:25, 18 August 2015 (UTC) |
Indeed, Drmies, having one now in fact and I hope Malik is enjoying whatever libation he favors at the moment himself. I'm unwatching that case page now as its equal parts sad and infuriating. Once again knee jerk reactions reward trolls and punish someone whose put enormous time and effort into this place. ArbCom might as well just write a handbook for SPAs at this point. It kind of blows my mind that the first reaction isn't just going to Malik and saying, whoa, this isn't like you, what prompted this? Because you know, when a long time admin known for having the patience of Job suddenly loses their shit there's obviously some serious context behind it. That would have nipped this in bud. But, no, let's escalate the situation. Let's start whipping our authority around because an admin lost his temper to a fucking red link user sock account. Ridiculous. And "Brad" will be back tomorrow under a different account and Malik, who I have no doubt genuinely feels bad about how he spoke, is gone. Capeo ( talk) 22:44, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
It looks like you forgot to sign. John Carter ( talk) 19:36, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
You may opt-out of future notifications related to this case at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Vested contributors/Notification list. You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Vested contributors. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Vested contributors/Evidence. Please add your evidence by November 5, 2015, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Vested contributors/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, L235 ( t / c / ping in reply) 01:19, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
You may opt-out of future notifications related to this case at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Arbitration enforcement 2/Notification list. You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Arbitration enforcement 2. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Arbitration enforcement 2/Evidence. Please add your evidence by November 5, 2015, which is when the evidence phase closes. For this case, there will be no Workshop phase. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Liz Read! Talk! 13:19, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
@ Legacypac, Davey2010, and AusLondonder:
Is Mz7 for real? [2] I'm having trouble how anyone could possibly believe this. Are we inhabiting different reality tunnels in an everchanging multiverse where our time streams accidentally crossed for a few minutes? How could anyone possibly believe this? Viriditas ( talk) 05:09, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
You are receiving this message because you are a party or offered a preliminary statement and/or evidence in the Arbitration enforcement 2 case. This is a one-time message.
The Arbitration enforcement 2 arbitration case ( t) ( ev / t) ( w / t) ( pd / t) has been closed, and the following remedies have been enacted:
1.1) The Arbitration Committee confirms the sanctions imposed on Eric Corbett as a result of the Interactions at GGTF case, but mandates that all enforcement requests relating to them be filed at arbitration enforcement and be kept open for at least 24 hours.
3) For his breaches of the standards of conduct expected of editors and administrators, Black Kite is admonished.
6) The community is reminded that discretionary sanctions have been authorised for any page relating to or any edit about: (i) the Gender Gap Task Force; (ii) the gender disparity among Wikipedians; and (iii) any process or discussion relating to these topics, all broadly construed.
For the Arbitration Committee, Kharkiv07 ( T) 02:41, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
I am talking to a particulary dense brick wall at paleo. Only in death does duty end ( talk) 14:57, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gamaliel and others. The scope of this case is Gamaliel's recent actions (both administrative and otherwise), especially related to the Signpost April Fools Joke. The case will also examine the conduct of other editors who are directly involved in disputes with Gamaliel. The case is strictly intended to examine user conduct and alleged policy violations and will not examine broader topic areas. The clerks have been instructed to remove evidence which does not meet these requirements. The drafters will add additional parties as required during the case. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gamaliel and others/Evidence.
Please add your evidence by May 2, 2016, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gamaliel and others/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. This notification is being sent to those listed on the case notification list. If you do not wish to recieve further notifications, you are welcome to opt-out on that page. For the Arbitration Committee, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) via MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 13:39, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
Re [4]...
ArbCom suffers from a whole host of problems, not least of which is a lack of professionalism. I recognize that ArbCom and its clerks are all volunteers, and thus could never be described as "professionals". However, actually being professional and acting professional are two different, if related, things. ArbCom will never be professional, but they can act professional. They do not.
One of the outcomes of this is chaotic application of procedures and general procedural conduct. While there are drafting arbitrators and clerks to help manage cases, there's no cohesiveness to the process. As a result, the image left on the canvas is one of a spaghetti gun, arbitrarily aimed and creating a hell of a mess, as opposed to the brushwork of say, Rembrandt. While I could never reasonably expect any volunteer group to approach the latter higher level of mastery, ArbCom exists just barely above the spaghetti gun level. As a result, much of their work is slipshod; lacking any real organization, review, oversight, correction, etc.
An aphorism that I frequently find myself using; "Do not ascribe to malice that which can be ascribed to incompetence". To be sure, ArbCom is incompetent. But, we the community make them so, a point I could labor on for a while. With this incompetence, we typically end up with cases being confused, self contradictory, poorly based, directly contravening policy/guideline, missing large elements, and more. In general, many cases tend to anger and inflame any parties interested in the case rather than truly resolve issues. I wonder at times if there are those that believe a case has succeeded if everyone is equally dissatisfied.
In this particular case, a solid shell game has been played. We are in essence told that the real issue was GamerGate and the conflict of Gamaliel being on Signpost and ArbCom at the same time. Thus, with Gamaliel's removal from both of those issues, the problem just melts away, and we need only say 'tut tut, don't do that again'. The real issue from my perspective and that of at least a few others, is the serious breaches of many policies committed by Gamaliel, the likes of which a subset would have a new user banned from the site. That is widely being ignored; in fact ArbCom can barely mention policy breaches and abuse of admin tools in the PD, much less actually sanction him for it. Mind you; an admonishment is no sanction at all. Administrators have been removed with and without prior admonishments. While they are sometimes cited in admin removals, there's no requirement for them at all. I.e. Gamaliel's cleared of all charges, and there's nothing to see here. Move along. Is this malice or incompetence? I say the latter, rather than the former.
In short; while you are quite correct, do not expect more. You will not get it. -- Hammersoft ( talk) 16:46, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
An arbitration case regarding Gamaliel and others has now closed and the final decision is viewable at the link above. The following remedies have been enacted:
For the Arbitration Committee, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) via MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 03:38, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
Hi Capeo. I want to let you know that I agree with all of your comments here. However, could you consider refactoring them slightly to not be commenting on editors directly? We've made a strong point of having the moderating admins enforce this rule. It would help to give some editors less ammunition that like to claim they are being treated unfairly when admins warn about sanctions for their attacks on editors at the RfC. We've tried to deal with advocacy and original research issues originating with David in the past that you just described pretty well, but the best thing to do during the RfC is to not personalize comments at all and make the comments only about the content. Kingofaces43 ( talk) 03:38, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
..any idea what ECT is getting at on Jimbo's page? I have tried to find a point but failed. Only in death does duty end ( talk) 09:31, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
Were you looking at US patent 4,166,112? Where do you see 44 days? EllenCT ( talk) 02:34, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
How do you feel about experiments to change UV photosensitivity relative to those designed to change the buoyancy of spores? In particular, into two populations, floating and sinking? EllenCT ( talk) 15:57, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
Want to go in on a patent for tennis balls filled with gravel, porous but very high surface area media, and BTI dunks with me? EllenCT ( talk) 17:01, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
Your second diff is not to a statement by SageRad but to Wikipedia talk:Civil POV pushing... Jytdog ( talk) 20:32, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
Capeo, inasmuch as the AE case about SageRad is now over, I'm redacting that entire section from my talk page, using the usual editing mechanisms. I've also redacted most of what I said at Jimbo Wales talk, and at AE. If you or @ Jytdog: have any concerns about what's remaining, I would have no objections to having the entire matter completely deleted (removed from the database) by oversight. Let me know if I need to do anything more with regards to this matter. JerryRussell ( talk) 20:21, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
I told Dab - see this. :) Doug Weller talk 19:07, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
Alkaline diet, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Insert CleverPhrase Here 04:01, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
There is a new RfC at Plummer v. State RfC, dealing with the Internet meme section. Please visit and comment on the proposed language for the section. This is revised from the first proposal, and you are receiving this notice due to your participation in the first RfC. GregJackP Boomer! 20:39, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
As you participated in Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive957#Proposal: One-way IBAN on Godsy towards Legacypac, you may be interested in Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Proposing IBAN between Godsy and Legacypac. — Godsy ( TALK CONT) 03:27, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
Please strike "Republican POV". Simply wanting the lede of James Comey to have less than a paragraph of coverage of Dismissal of James Comey is not a Republican POV, and I don't know where else I have made any comments that could be viewed as having a POV. Power~enwiki ( talk) 03:40, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
User:Capeo, nice meeting you. In answer to your edit, first, there has been no synthesizing as you claim. I have simply made two relative statements connected to one another as we all know, under the definition of "Intelligent Design" widely-construed. Be well. Davidbena ( talk) 18:31, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
There is an RfC at Talk:Daily Mail#Request for comment: Other criticisms section. Your input would be most helpful. -- Guy Macon ( talk) 16:07, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
I would like to thank you for so clearly expressing what proper journalistic conduct would look like in the case in question. I wish I could have put it so well. Haukur ( talk) 09:42, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
"Can I give you some advice?"
Thank you for improving quality articles such as Immanuel Velikovsky and H. P. Lovecraft, for (intermittent) service from 2006, for good comments and sound advice in and about arbcom cases, including "I'm unwatching that case page now as its equal parts sad and infuriating." - you are an awesome Wikipedian!
You are recipient no. 2287 of Precious, a prize of QAI. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 22:32, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
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I removed a comment of yours at ANI--you may have seen that I also supported an indef-block, but this is a personal attack by any standard. Please let cooler heads prevail. Thank you. Drmies ( talk) 18:06, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
Two years! |
---|
-- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 07:45, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
I know that we haven't had contact previously, but that was quite a summary of recent events that you posting in the discussion. I just hope that others read it. -- Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 19:37, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
Thank you, Capeo, for your kind comments at [1] about my quality improvement efforts on Wikipedia to improve articles related to freedom of speech and censorship to higher levels of quality including WP:GA and WP:FA. Please also note that the article includes commentary from secondary sources written by women, including: Carly Milne, Regina Lynn, Annalee Newitz of AlterNet, author Violet Blue, author Audacia Ray, Bonnie Ruberg of The Village Voice, The Oxford Encyclopedia of Women in World History, Jessica Roy of The New York Observer, author Sarah Schaschek -- indeed, the majority of the secondary-source-commentary in the article itself is cited to female authors. Thanks again, — Cirt ( talk) 20:46, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Hello! Capeo,
There is a WikiProject about Freedom of speech, called WikiProject Freedom of speech. If you're interested, here are some easy things you can do:
|
Since the AN is closed, I figured I'd at least give a partial reply here: I certainly did not expect that mess. Frankly I like the suggestion that arbs themselves should enforce their sanctions (or perhaps a group of appointed admins?) What an utter mess though. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{ re}} 17:54, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
This message is sent at 12:53, 5 July 2015 (UTC) by Arbitration Clerk User:Penwhale via MassMessage on behalf of the Arbitration Committee. You are receiving this message because your name appears on this list and have not elected to opt-out of being notified of development in the arbitration case.
On 5 July, 2015, the following motion was passed and enacted:
Bringing this here, if I may, because it's not of truly general interest.
Yes, I've read the proposed decision with care, several times. If this chiefly concerns battleground behavior, and if the matter is as clear as so many people consider it, why not simply topic-ban and/or block LB in the usual way? Or, if admins could not agree that this was battleground behavior, address that disagreement and let it stop there.
With regard to the WP:OUTING questions, if LB had been a hardened miscreant and had actually doxxed her alleged harasser using an alias -- even a transparent alias -- then she would not have been sanctionable. Indeed, it appears no harassment can incur censure if the harasser claims that it was performed by someone else, or even if the harasser can claim that it might have been performed by someone else. Wikipedia appears to condone harassing and even extortionate behavior while showing scant concern for its editors or for outsiders harassed on our pages. Is that the community we want? MarkBernstein ( talk) 18:35, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
To begin we see some of the recent Arb cases differently. I agree the GG case was bad and basically wrote a roadmap for concerted offsite efforts to push a particular POV on WP. Though that has been happening in one form or another for a long time. From what I understand Sitush has been through a pretty nightmarish scenario that highly effected even his everyday life outside of WP. I think ArbCom got GGTF and the LB case mostly right though. You're not going to please the public who had no real idea what was going on and you can't just ignore highly disruptive behavior simply because you're worried how it's going to be perceived when you ban people. That would be a massive disservice to editors.
As far as transparency in Arb cases dealing with private information, how is that really achievable? I'll note you still didn't really answer my question above ;). What's the standard of proof and how far should we go to attain it? Because if you wrongly ban someone for something as horrible as offsite sexual harassment that person could conceivably incur serious real life repercussions. Is that really a responsibility that should be in the hands of a bunch of volunteers pursuing what amounts to a hobby? Honestly I can't see that responsibility falling on the shoulders of anyone else but the WMF and I see them as dropping the ball on issues of harassment more than any part of the community itself. Volunteers start sticking their necks out to far concerning offsite activity and delving too far into privacy issues actually opens them up to litigation. That's a burden the WMF should handle but they somehow always get a free ride. Supposedly they do now investigate these things to some degree but clearly not very well. Capeo ( talk) 23:09, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
In situations such as the present one of outing vs harassment, engaging in speculation that directly connects a pseudonym to a real-life identity by constructing a house of cards, however sound the foundation may appear to be, amounts to a serious breach of responsibility unless the evidence meets a criminal standard of proof. And if it does meet that standard then I suspect the WMF will deal with it using their own terms of service etc even if local laws prevent a formal prosecution. Think of it as a duty of care where, on the one hand, an accuser remains anonymous and on the other an alleged perpetrator does not. Without information disclosure by ISPs, and bearing in mind the possibility of such things as malicious doppelganger accounts being created, there really is no way to make a certain connection. We all know of hoaxes that have existed here for years, and of multi-sock accounts that in some cases have avoided detection for similar periods.
The stuff that LB has been doing might look clever but that which she has made public is all circumstantial and once the genie is out of the bottle with a real-life connection, there is no putting it back. There was a case in the UK a few years ago when some idiot people mistook pedagogue for paedophile (or some such similar stupid failure to consult a dictionary) and went on a lynching spree.
Yes, Capeo, I had a horrific time. The WMF and police were helpful, and certain things of a legal nature happened as a consequence of their involvement. One part of the advice given to me by the police was to lie low. Unlike LB's situation, the problematic people could find me. - Sitush ( talk) 10:20, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
I agree that care must be taken. But care must also be taken for people who are harassed here, for editors whose silence is extorted by threat, and for those who are harassed on these pages though they do not edit here. The absence of expressed concern in Gamergate was upsetting; the repetition here was shocking as it must be an intentional omission. We are offered vague assurances that WMF might do something someday -- perhaps issue a press release again? -- but concrete assistance and policy protections are being delivered to off-site harassers, whose activities some are now accepting and normalizing as a regrettable but routine part of Wikipedia.
Choosing to lower your profile or to leave Wikipedia may well be excellent options for individuals; this was offered as the mandatory response for all victims of sexual harassment, and that proposal was in fact shameful. Today, another editor at Talk:PD is proposing that sexual harassment on Wikipedia is always the victim’s fault because on Wikipedia no one knows your gender unless you disclose it; I fancy I do not need to unpack that here. MarkBernstein ( talk) 13:29, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
Editors can also notify their local law enforcement and consider lowering their profile until the threat is past.(my emphasis). As examples of the people to whom I was actually referring, please do your homework on people calling themselves Demiurge, Neotarf etc. I mean, getting banned from WP is one thing, getting banned also from WPO is quite another. There is rotten-ness in all states, not just the one with which you are at war. - Sitush ( talk) 14:14, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
Thanks again, Capeo and Sitush. I don't think we're all that far apart on this. I hope I've convinced you that I'm not entirely a fire-breathing ogre. I have seen references to the editors you mention, and perhaps recall campfire stories about them, but I don’t believe I've actually crossed their path. MarkBernstein ( talk) 16:35, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
Hey Capeo, in your last comment in your section of the Lightbreather Arbitration case, you made a comment which you addressed to me by pinging my username. I think you might have mistaken me for SlimVirgin or someone else. I was not involved in that Arbitration case and rarely edit Wikipedia these days. I only noticed it because I happened to sign in tonight and received your ping. I attempted to unlink my name but was reverted for modifying someone else's comment. I was hoping that you might be able to remove the link on my name. I really don't want it to look like I was involved in an Arbitation case when I wasn't. Thank you very much. Cheers, Sarah 13:41, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
For your comment at Malik's ArbCom "case". I suspect we all could use a few. Drmies ( talk) 16:25, 18 August 2015 (UTC) |
Indeed, Drmies, having one now in fact and I hope Malik is enjoying whatever libation he favors at the moment himself. I'm unwatching that case page now as its equal parts sad and infuriating. Once again knee jerk reactions reward trolls and punish someone whose put enormous time and effort into this place. ArbCom might as well just write a handbook for SPAs at this point. It kind of blows my mind that the first reaction isn't just going to Malik and saying, whoa, this isn't like you, what prompted this? Because you know, when a long time admin known for having the patience of Job suddenly loses their shit there's obviously some serious context behind it. That would have nipped this in bud. But, no, let's escalate the situation. Let's start whipping our authority around because an admin lost his temper to a fucking red link user sock account. Ridiculous. And "Brad" will be back tomorrow under a different account and Malik, who I have no doubt genuinely feels bad about how he spoke, is gone. Capeo ( talk) 22:44, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
It looks like you forgot to sign. John Carter ( talk) 19:36, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
You may opt-out of future notifications related to this case at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Vested contributors/Notification list. You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Vested contributors. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Vested contributors/Evidence. Please add your evidence by November 5, 2015, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Vested contributors/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, L235 ( t / c / ping in reply) 01:19, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
You may opt-out of future notifications related to this case at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Arbitration enforcement 2/Notification list. You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Arbitration enforcement 2. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Arbitration enforcement 2/Evidence. Please add your evidence by November 5, 2015, which is when the evidence phase closes. For this case, there will be no Workshop phase. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Liz Read! Talk! 13:19, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
@ Legacypac, Davey2010, and AusLondonder:
Is Mz7 for real? [2] I'm having trouble how anyone could possibly believe this. Are we inhabiting different reality tunnels in an everchanging multiverse where our time streams accidentally crossed for a few minutes? How could anyone possibly believe this? Viriditas ( talk) 05:09, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
You are receiving this message because you are a party or offered a preliminary statement and/or evidence in the Arbitration enforcement 2 case. This is a one-time message.
The Arbitration enforcement 2 arbitration case ( t) ( ev / t) ( w / t) ( pd / t) has been closed, and the following remedies have been enacted:
1.1) The Arbitration Committee confirms the sanctions imposed on Eric Corbett as a result of the Interactions at GGTF case, but mandates that all enforcement requests relating to them be filed at arbitration enforcement and be kept open for at least 24 hours.
3) For his breaches of the standards of conduct expected of editors and administrators, Black Kite is admonished.
6) The community is reminded that discretionary sanctions have been authorised for any page relating to or any edit about: (i) the Gender Gap Task Force; (ii) the gender disparity among Wikipedians; and (iii) any process or discussion relating to these topics, all broadly construed.
For the Arbitration Committee, Kharkiv07 ( T) 02:41, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
I am talking to a particulary dense brick wall at paleo. Only in death does duty end ( talk) 14:57, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gamaliel and others. The scope of this case is Gamaliel's recent actions (both administrative and otherwise), especially related to the Signpost April Fools Joke. The case will also examine the conduct of other editors who are directly involved in disputes with Gamaliel. The case is strictly intended to examine user conduct and alleged policy violations and will not examine broader topic areas. The clerks have been instructed to remove evidence which does not meet these requirements. The drafters will add additional parties as required during the case. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gamaliel and others/Evidence.
Please add your evidence by May 2, 2016, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gamaliel and others/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. This notification is being sent to those listed on the case notification list. If you do not wish to recieve further notifications, you are welcome to opt-out on that page. For the Arbitration Committee, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) via MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 13:39, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
Re [4]...
ArbCom suffers from a whole host of problems, not least of which is a lack of professionalism. I recognize that ArbCom and its clerks are all volunteers, and thus could never be described as "professionals". However, actually being professional and acting professional are two different, if related, things. ArbCom will never be professional, but they can act professional. They do not.
One of the outcomes of this is chaotic application of procedures and general procedural conduct. While there are drafting arbitrators and clerks to help manage cases, there's no cohesiveness to the process. As a result, the image left on the canvas is one of a spaghetti gun, arbitrarily aimed and creating a hell of a mess, as opposed to the brushwork of say, Rembrandt. While I could never reasonably expect any volunteer group to approach the latter higher level of mastery, ArbCom exists just barely above the spaghetti gun level. As a result, much of their work is slipshod; lacking any real organization, review, oversight, correction, etc.
An aphorism that I frequently find myself using; "Do not ascribe to malice that which can be ascribed to incompetence". To be sure, ArbCom is incompetent. But, we the community make them so, a point I could labor on for a while. With this incompetence, we typically end up with cases being confused, self contradictory, poorly based, directly contravening policy/guideline, missing large elements, and more. In general, many cases tend to anger and inflame any parties interested in the case rather than truly resolve issues. I wonder at times if there are those that believe a case has succeeded if everyone is equally dissatisfied.
In this particular case, a solid shell game has been played. We are in essence told that the real issue was GamerGate and the conflict of Gamaliel being on Signpost and ArbCom at the same time. Thus, with Gamaliel's removal from both of those issues, the problem just melts away, and we need only say 'tut tut, don't do that again'. The real issue from my perspective and that of at least a few others, is the serious breaches of many policies committed by Gamaliel, the likes of which a subset would have a new user banned from the site. That is widely being ignored; in fact ArbCom can barely mention policy breaches and abuse of admin tools in the PD, much less actually sanction him for it. Mind you; an admonishment is no sanction at all. Administrators have been removed with and without prior admonishments. While they are sometimes cited in admin removals, there's no requirement for them at all. I.e. Gamaliel's cleared of all charges, and there's nothing to see here. Move along. Is this malice or incompetence? I say the latter, rather than the former.
In short; while you are quite correct, do not expect more. You will not get it. -- Hammersoft ( talk) 16:46, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
An arbitration case regarding Gamaliel and others has now closed and the final decision is viewable at the link above. The following remedies have been enacted:
For the Arbitration Committee, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) via MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 03:38, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
Hi Capeo. I want to let you know that I agree with all of your comments here. However, could you consider refactoring them slightly to not be commenting on editors directly? We've made a strong point of having the moderating admins enforce this rule. It would help to give some editors less ammunition that like to claim they are being treated unfairly when admins warn about sanctions for their attacks on editors at the RfC. We've tried to deal with advocacy and original research issues originating with David in the past that you just described pretty well, but the best thing to do during the RfC is to not personalize comments at all and make the comments only about the content. Kingofaces43 ( talk) 03:38, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
..any idea what ECT is getting at on Jimbo's page? I have tried to find a point but failed. Only in death does duty end ( talk) 09:31, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
Were you looking at US patent 4,166,112? Where do you see 44 days? EllenCT ( talk) 02:34, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
How do you feel about experiments to change UV photosensitivity relative to those designed to change the buoyancy of spores? In particular, into two populations, floating and sinking? EllenCT ( talk) 15:57, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
Want to go in on a patent for tennis balls filled with gravel, porous but very high surface area media, and BTI dunks with me? EllenCT ( talk) 17:01, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
Your second diff is not to a statement by SageRad but to Wikipedia talk:Civil POV pushing... Jytdog ( talk) 20:32, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
Capeo, inasmuch as the AE case about SageRad is now over, I'm redacting that entire section from my talk page, using the usual editing mechanisms. I've also redacted most of what I said at Jimbo Wales talk, and at AE. If you or @ Jytdog: have any concerns about what's remaining, I would have no objections to having the entire matter completely deleted (removed from the database) by oversight. Let me know if I need to do anything more with regards to this matter. JerryRussell ( talk) 20:21, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
I told Dab - see this. :) Doug Weller talk 19:07, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
Alkaline diet, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Insert CleverPhrase Here 04:01, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
There is a new RfC at Plummer v. State RfC, dealing with the Internet meme section. Please visit and comment on the proposed language for the section. This is revised from the first proposal, and you are receiving this notice due to your participation in the first RfC. GregJackP Boomer! 20:39, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
As you participated in Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive957#Proposal: One-way IBAN on Godsy towards Legacypac, you may be interested in Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Proposing IBAN between Godsy and Legacypac. — Godsy ( TALK CONT) 03:27, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
Please strike "Republican POV". Simply wanting the lede of James Comey to have less than a paragraph of coverage of Dismissal of James Comey is not a Republican POV, and I don't know where else I have made any comments that could be viewed as having a POV. Power~enwiki ( talk) 03:40, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
User:Capeo, nice meeting you. In answer to your edit, first, there has been no synthesizing as you claim. I have simply made two relative statements connected to one another as we all know, under the definition of "Intelligent Design" widely-construed. Be well. Davidbena ( talk) 18:31, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
There is an RfC at Talk:Daily Mail#Request for comment: Other criticisms section. Your input would be most helpful. -- Guy Macon ( talk) 16:07, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
I would like to thank you for so clearly expressing what proper journalistic conduct would look like in the case in question. I wish I could have put it so well. Haukur ( talk) 09:42, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
"Can I give you some advice?"
Thank you for improving quality articles such as Immanuel Velikovsky and H. P. Lovecraft, for (intermittent) service from 2006, for good comments and sound advice in and about arbcom cases, including "I'm unwatching that case page now as its equal parts sad and infuriating." - you are an awesome Wikipedian!
You are recipient no. 2287 of Precious, a prize of QAI. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 22:32, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
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I removed a comment of yours at ANI--you may have seen that I also supported an indef-block, but this is a personal attack by any standard. Please let cooler heads prevail. Thank you. Drmies ( talk) 18:06, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
Two years! |
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-- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 07:45, 22 September 2021 (UTC)