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KP Sharma Oli KP Sharma Oli (pictured) is appointed prime minister of Nepal following the incumbent Pushpa Kamal Dahal losing a no confidence motion. In association football, Euro 2024 concludes with Spain defeating England in the final, and the Copa América concludes with Argentina defeating Colombia in the final. In tennis, Barbora Krejčíková and Carlos Alcaraz win the women's and men's singles, respectively, at the Wimbledon Championships. Former United States president Donald Trump survives an assassination attempt during a political rally near Butler, Pennsylvania. Ongoing: Israel–Hamas war timeline Russian invasion of Ukraine timeline Sudanese civil war timeline Recent deaths: Shannen Doherty Ruth Westheimer Marina Kondratyeva Nana Nuriana Joe Engle Diana Hill Nominate an article view — page history — related changes —

RD: Peter Courtney

Article updated and well sourced. -- TDKR Chicago 101 ( talk) 20:04, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

RD: Joe Bryant

Kobe's father and professional player and coach. Needs some work. Natg 19 ( talk) 16:52, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Oppose Article needs ref work, has some cn tags. -- TDKR Chicago 101 ( talk) 20:08, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

RD: Jacques Boudet

French actor. 240F:7A:6253:1:64A3:5EA7:A3BF:F045 ( talk) 09:30, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Oppose the entire article has one source and that too of death, has very prose and mostly a Listicle. PrinceofPunjab ^TALK 15:46, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Oppose Article needs major work such as expansion and sourcing. -- TDKR Chicago 101 ( talk) 20:05, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

RD: Peter Buxtun

Whistleblower who revealed the Tuskegee syphilis experiment. He died back in May, but from what I can tell, it was reported in reliable sources on July 15. Legoktm ( talk) 16:14, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

RD: Norm Hewitt

New Zealand All Blacks rugby union player. 240F:7A:6253:1:3588:1738:72A2:F85A ( talk) 07:12, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Oppose there is an cn tag and Career highlights list needs more more sources. PrinceofPunjab ^TALK 15:47, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

(Closed) Chinese cooking oil scandal

(Posted) 2024 Copa América final

Article is well-referenced as of nomination, with a few updates being added. — MarkH₂₁ ^talk 04:10, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Oppose due to missing prose summary, rest-of-tournament sections, and description of the pre-match ticket fiasco that pushed the match back by an hour. Will try to make improvements tomorrow. Sounder Bruce 04:11, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply
  • The sumamry & pre-match sections have now been started with a few paragraphs each. — MarkH₂₁ ^talk 05:01, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Oppose per above, article's simply not ready. Do want to note for anyone that may raise it - this is correctly placed on the 15th, as due to the delay/extra time the Final ended after midnight eastern. The Kip ^{( contribs)} 04:31, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  I thought it goes by UTC? Otherwise Super Bowl would always end hours after the bot adds the day after the local day. Sagittarian Milky Way ( talk) 23:33, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Support when ready. Seems to be more than enough text about the Miami security issues. Nfitz ( talk) 05:01, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support when ready, big win for a great team in a big tournament. 2604:3D08:9476:BE00:E1C5:79C8:157A:391E ( talk) 05:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Comment Notability is not an issue as the event is listed on ITNR (presumed to be notable). Focus solely on article quality. Bremps ... 05:21, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• ’’’Procedural support’” guess we can’t have only real news on ITN forever :/ This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang ( talk) 07:12, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  We get it, you don’t like sportsball. Doesn’t mean you have to insert your personalized commentary/complaints every time a sporting event comes up at ITNC - this isn’t the first time in recent memory. The Kip ^{( contribs)} 09:51, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  Yes, like "Old Man Dies" it's getting very wearisome now. Black Kite (talk) 15:08, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  Except "old man dies" has an argument to be made for it; complaining about ITN/R sports stories has none. Kicking222 ( talk) 21:38, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  I suppose so.

  Both are tiring, but OMD is rooted in a legitimate criticism of ITNC (albeit one I disagree with), while the “sports bad” comments amount to contrarianism - these are easily notable enough by our standards. The Kip ^{( contribs)} 01:29, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  Why and how does it always come back to death blurbs? It's the black hole of all ITN discussion, sucking everything towards it. Bremps ... 05:48, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Comment If both this blurb and the previous Euro one are posted, they could be merged into one blurb to avoid repetition (e.g: In association football, Spain defeat England to win UEFA Euro 2024, and Argentina defeat Colombia to win the 2024 Copa América.) Chaotic Enby ( talk · contribs) 09:52, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  Considering they’ll be run back to back, can’t say I’d be opposed to this proposal. The Kip ^{( contribs)} 09:57, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  I endorse this proposal. GenevieveDEon ( talk) 14:31, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  Like - Ad Orientem ( talk) 15:04, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  They are separate events. Would we merge any other type of news event together because they happened one day after the other? ("In disaster news, earthquakes in Anyville and Randomtown kill 21 and 34 people respectively"). Black Kite (talk) 15:08, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  Yes, if only to not have two very similar events take up two bullet points. Wqwt ( talk) 16:34, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  Two separate events clash. Unnamelessness ( talk) 15:32, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  I feel that two events in the same sport can be put on the same line (many of the two winning teams are probably teammates at club level); that's not the same as merging either of these with Wimbledon. As with disasters, I feel like if earthquakes hit California and Texas on the same day, that would be posted on the same line because the response would probably be co-ordinated - different to posting an earthquake in the USA and one in China on the same line. I swear I've seen joint posting for when different European leagues have ended on the same day, or in the same week as the Champions League. Unknown Temptation ( talk) 16:38, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  This does make a good bit of sense. They're both continental championship finals in the exact same sport. We don't post a separate blurb for two separate finals from Wimbledon, for instance. Of course, that does hinge on this getting posted in a timely manner anyway; right now this article suffers from the all-too-common problem for championship finals of being just a table dumb with little to no prose. Nottheking ( talk) 17:20, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  The article has a dozen paragraphs of prose and one table. — MarkH₂₁ ^talk 18:48, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Support on principle. I've got a question though, shouldn't the blurb for this and the UEFA final ITN say that "... (Spain / Argentina) defeats (England / Colombia) ..." instead of the singular defeat since the blurbs are in present tense and the subject nations are singular nouns? SpacePod9 ( talk) 23:54, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  Each side of the Pond seems to have a different opinion on which is broken English (defeat or defeats). Sagittarian Milky Way ( talk) 01:07, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  If it's an ENGVAR issue, since this Copa America involved North America, maybe "defeats" is the way to go. But IDK, it seems like it's more to do with certain countries referring to their national teams as "they", and some referring to their national teams as "it", and the subsequent verb agreement (they defeat, it defeats). In that case, we should probably look to the WP articles of the relevant national teams to see which pronoun seems to be in use, and make the blurb agree. Kingsif ( talk) 04:17, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• See the current Euro 2024 blurb for the standard method of avoiding this issue. Black Kite (talk) 05:00, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Support, also on principle. 2605:8D80:325:ABB8:4CDA:C019:1E39:3DB ( talk) 02:21, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support. I was going to be the one to nominate this article, but thanks for doing so. 64.114 etc 03:29, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Posted combined blurb. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 05:53, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• I like it They're close in form, time and (questionable) prose quality. Nobody urgently needs to learn the score. The important thing is the finals (each one final) are featured, rather than divisive words about winning or losing. InedibleHulk ( talk) 06:12, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Thank you - that's a well-handled combined blurb. GenevieveDEon ( talk) 08:39, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

(Posted) UEFA Euro 2024 final

The article for the final may need some sourcing work. Gödel2200 ( talk) 20:54, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Oppose until there is a prose recap of the match. PCN02WPS ( talk | contribs) 20:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Support in principle. Congratulations to Spain for the fully deserved victory.-- Kiril Simeonovski ( talk) 21:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  You're well aware that "support in principle" is meaningless for an ITN/R article. Either say that you think it's ready or say why you don't think it's ready. Kicking222 ( talk) 21:07, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Support Per answer above; in principle. 2604:3D08:9476:BE00:4DE:B079:824F:421A ( talk) 21:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• This is also a big win for a major world country in one of the major international tournaments that conclude today. 2604:3D08:9476:BE00:4DE:B079:824F:421A ( talk) 21:09, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  Jeez in the 21st century any team that wins the Euros is a big/important country... yes, I'm even talking about Portugal and Greece. Howard the Duck ( talk) 23:15, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Oppose the final as the primary article as it seems quite perfunctory, doesn't provide any narrative for the game and needs work for issues like tense. The UEFA Euro 2024 article would be better as the primary article as it covers the entire event but that needs work too. Andrew🐉( talk) 21:17, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Comment Those oppose votes that the article on the final lacks a prose recap of the match only 20 minutes after its end are very unproductive and may delay posting this because the majority of admins here blindly count votes. We all know that this won’t be posted in the next two hours, at least.-- Kiril Simeonovski ( talk) 21:28, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support: The prose summary has been started and is well-referenced. No preference for primary-linked article or wording in the blurb. — MarkH₂₁ ^talk 21:34, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

SUPPORT! Apparently, it’s agreeable that the summary is well authentically referenced with good citations. 207.194.85.134 ( talk) 23:18, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Well this is clearly an AI chatbot re-writing of the !vote directly above... Kingsif ( talk) 02:08, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Support article looks good to go. Aydoh8 ( talk | contribs) 02:06, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Support Prose summary is brief but adequate, and the rest looks ready. The Kip ^{( contribs)} 03:17, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Oppose. As it stands, the prose summary is far too short for a major match. Sounder Bruce 03:30, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Comment defeats* Jiaminglimjm ( talk) 05:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Nope WP:ENGVAR- defeat is correct in British English. Joseph 2302 ( talk) 06:47, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Comment If both this blurb and the next Copa América one are posted, they could be merged into one blurb to avoid repetition (e.g: In association football, Spain defeat England to win UEFA Euro 2024, and Argentina defeat Colombia to win the 2024 Copa América.) Chaotic Enby ( talk · contribs) 09:52, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

I don't think it's wise to merge them as it may delude people that it's a single event or two closely related events, especially when we have a combined blurb on the Wimbledon Championships already on the main page.-- Kiril Simeonovski ( talk) 10:25, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

No, they are completely separate events. Every year we get a glut of sporting ITN/Rs around this time, it's just one of those things. Black Kite (talk) 11:34, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

But it would avoid the tiff of which one gets posted on top and in turn lasts longer. I get they are different events, but still "continent level championship for national teams in the same sport at the same time" is close enough that the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. But no strong opinion either way, just seems like it would avoid some drama. nableezy - 17:57, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

*Oppose on quality (and unmarked as Ready). Four sentences of prose on the entire final match is not sufficient. Black Kite (talk) 11:33, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Yeah, that's good. Marked Ready again. Black Kite (talk) 15:10, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Support there really is nothing more you can write about the match, the quality is good enough Reme77 ( talk) 12:53, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Support I've made the summary four paragraphs now, two for each half. Kingsif ( talk) 14:44, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• @ Admins willing to post ITN: anyone available to post this? Natg 19 ( talk) 00:58, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Posted the ALT blurb. Schwede 66 01:58, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• I updated the blurb due to the usual ENGVAR issues (especially as the one used was the NA "wins"). Black Kite (talk) 04:04, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

RD: Evan Wright

Author of Generation Kill. Article could use some reorganizing (I'm new to this so lmk if I'm doing this wrong). CrazyMagicPickle ( talk) 18:28, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Wait good is in a good shape, only thing holding it back is that the Published works section needs sourcing. PrinceofPunjab ^TALK 15:49, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

(Posted) Wimbledon 2024

Article:  2024 Wimbledon Championships ( talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In tennis, Barbora Krejčíková and Carlos Alcaraz (pictured) win the women's and men's singles respectively at the Wimbledon Championships. ( Post)
News source(s): NYT - The Washington Post
Credits:

• Nominated by PrinceofPunjab ( talk · give credit)

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

I think the article is in a good enough shape to be posted. PrinceofPunjab ^TALK 16:56, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Support We should get this done quickly because there will be the UEFA result to post soon. Andrew🐉( talk) 17:07, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support unlike most tennis articles nominated here, this one actually has some decent tournament summaries and so meets WP:ITNQUALITY. Joseph 2302 ( talk) 17:33, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support - Seems to be in a good enough state. HumanBodyPiloter5 ( talk) 18:01, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support Article is well sourced and has a good amount of prose about the matches. Gödel2200 ( talk) 18:31, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Note I'm going to post this when the image is protected. Black Kite (talk) 19:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Posted. Black Kite (talk) 19:18, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

RD: Jacoby Jones

American football wide receiver. Article needs a decent bit of work. The Kip ^{( contribs)} 16:06, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Comment: Noting that I did a significant amount of work on the article to clean it up, including adding about 20 references. I've added myself as an updater, hope that's ok @ The Kip. Hey man im josh ( talk) 18:36, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  Just a further detail, the only tag on the article now is to expand the Houston Texans section. Hey man im josh ( talk) 21:57, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  Can that section realistically be expanded much, though? It seems he didn't do a whole lot during his time in Houston. The Kip ^{( contribs)} 17:17, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Wait Houston Texans orange tag needs to be resolved otherwise good to go. PrinceofPunjab ^TALK 15:50, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

(Posted) RD: Shannen Doherty

Article:  Shannen Doherty ( talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination ( Post)
News source(s): Variety
Credits:

• Nominated by Jolicnikola ( talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

• Oppose There are CN tags. MAL MALDIVE ( talk) 15:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support. The article is in good shape, no remaining tags. Daniel Quinlan ( talk) 02:40, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support Scheridon ( talk) 12:17, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support – Article is in good shape indeed. No such thing as an image RD of course, but I'm glad you included the image here as it drew my attention. ~ Maplestrip/Mable ( chat) 13:26, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Oppose Too many Cn tags.— Bagumba ( talk) 15:15, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  Tagging several non-exceptional claims (some covered in the obituaries), without further contribution, and then opposing an RD based on your own tags? The article had 80 citations too. I don't really have the words, but I'm disappointed. Daniel Quinlan ( talk) 21:41, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Support Bearas ( talk) 05:36, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Weak support Two cn tags shouldn't keep this from posting...I think. -- TDKR Chicago 101 ( talk) 05:50, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Posted Step hen 09:05, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

(Closed) Suspension of Alice Guo

( non-admin closure) Closing it again as an IP address decided to reopen it. This was originally closed by Stephen as consensus to post will not develop. 🛧 Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 21:25, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Article:  Alice Guo ( talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Bamban, Tarlac mayor Alice Guo is suspended after her actual identity is revealed to be Chinese. ( Post)
News source(s): Rappler Inquirer Philstar
Credits:

• Nominated by TheNuggeteer ( talk · give credit)
• Created by JL 09 ( talk · give credit)

Really big incident in the Philippines, a lot of news sources talking about it, I might as well try to put it on the main page. 🍗TheNugg eteer🍗 11:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Oppose Subnational incident that doesn't rise to the level of impact required for a main page posting.

Noah, BSBA ^Talk 11:56, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Oppose This seems to be stale; Guo was suspended from office on 3 June, and the NBI investigation confirmed her identity on 27 June ( [1]). An arrest warrant was issued on 13 July, but this seems to have been for the Philippine equivalent of Contempt of Congress rather than any other malfeasance ( [2]), and besides that arrests themselves are very rarely posted here. Curbon7 ( talk) 12:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Oppose The suspension itself is stale, and the story is a subnational incident. Gödel2200 ( talk) 12:18, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Oppose per the above. The wording of the proposed blurb is weird as well, and this definitely doesn't rise even to a national level of significance. (If Andy Burnham lost his job, would we post it here? When Nicola Sturgeon or Ron De Santis were in trouble, did we post it?) But also, this was rightly closed as a no-hoper, and it's been reopened by an IP user. GenevieveDEon ( talk) 18:16, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Oppose and re-close, not going to get posted as per the above, so this should be re-closed (and IP editor re-opened it previously). Joseph 2302 ( talk) 20:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Ruth Hesse

German mezzo-soprano who made an international career starting at the Vienna State Opera in big roles in 1965. The article was basically there, translated from de. I had to find references for recordings, and some that disappeared over the five years since it was DYK. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 20:23, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Support Article looks good. -- TDKR Chicago 101 ( talk) 20:38, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

(Ready) RD: Naomi Pomeroy

American chef. 240F:7A:6253:1:5:1EE6:C9D5:AA47 ( talk) 03:11, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Support meets the Bare minimum requirement. PrinceofPunjab ^TALK 15:51, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Support Article looks good enough. -- TDKR Chicago 101 ( talk) 20:38, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

RD: P. Buckley Moss

American artist and philanthropist. 240F:7A:6253:1:5:1EE6:C9D5:AA47 ( talk) 03:11, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Wait article needs a bit work. PrinceofPunjab ^TALK 15:53, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Oppose Last section is unsourced and lead could be expanded to reflect her notability. -- TDKR Chicago 101 ( talk) 20:39, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

RD: James B. Sikking

American actor. 240F:7A:6253:1:B0BC:D35C:F470:BF2D ( talk) 05:26, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Oppose uncited filmography/discography. But aside from that, there's a massive uncited list of movies in paragraph form that needs to be fixed. Bremps ... 22:36, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Oppose same as what Bremps said. PrinceofPunjab ^TALK 15:54, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

(Posted) 2024 shooting at a Donald Trump rally

Article:  2024 shooting at a Donald Trump rally ( talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former President of the United States Donald Trump survives an assassination attempt after being shot during a rally in Butler, Pennsylvania. ( Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Donald Trump was injured after being shot during a rally held in Butler, Pennsylvania with the perpetrator being shot dead.
Alternative blurb II: ​ One person is killed and two others are injured, including former U.S. president Donald Trump, in a shooting at a political rally in Butler, Pennsylvania.
Alternative blurb III: ​ Former U.S. president Donald Trump survives an assassination attempt at a political rally in Butler, Pennsylvania.
News source(s): The New York Times, AP
Credits:

• Nominated by Midori No Sora ( talk · give credit)

Probably the most serious security incident involving Donald Trump. Trump survived the assassination attempt. 2 people were injured, and the perpetrator and an audience was killed. Currently reported live by major news sites worldwide. 🛧 Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 23:04, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Wait until it is confirmed it was an assassination attempt. If it is then I will change my vote to support. Jbvann05 23:06, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Wait Information is scarce right now.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 23:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Wait - People are rushing to get this story to the front page before we even know what the story is. Calm down, everyone. GenevieveDEon ( talk) 23:10, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Comment - And why do we have a stock photo of him? We know what Trump looks like, and the picture has nothing more specific to do with the story than that. GenevieveDEon ( talk) 23:42, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  It's only a temporary image as there's no free / non-copyrighted image of the shooting at the moment. 🛧 Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 23:55, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Wait We have very few details as of now, so we need to wait. Gödel2200 ( talk) 23:12, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Wait Wait inception. This happened 30 minutes ago. Await more details. qw3rty 23:14, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support - Confirmed assassination attempt that injured a former US president and current presidential candidate. No matter what details come out, this is a 100% newsworthy event. Poxy4 ( talk) 23:27, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Wait Wikipedia isn't for breaking news. There is very little useful information that could be added to the article that could be properly sourced. 142.163.137.123 ( talk) 23:32, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Support, now a shooting has been confirmed. Trump is injured. The perpetrator and an audience member died. This country is going to suffer extreme political violence in the coming weeks, so it was nice knowing you. Personisinsterest ( talk) 23:26, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Do you have sources for any of that? None of it is on the BBC live feed. GenevieveDEon ( talk) 23:30, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Here is one: 1 Gödel2200 ( talk) 23:32, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Thank you. That message was labelled '4 min ago' as I saw it. Could we perhaps all slow down a little and not try to push this story onto the home page while it's still developing? GenevieveDEon ( talk) 23:34, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

The original source appears to be local DA speaking to various media. Different media have different threshold for single/double/triple confirmation before reporting something big. Which is why there's some reporting of dead shooter in some media but not others. Wait until it's reported across major media before referencing such if it's considered to be included with a blurb. -- KTC ( talk) 23:42, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Injured? Trump's people are saying he's fine. Nfitz ( talk) 23:36, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

It's not unreasonable to say injured when there's literally video of him with blood coming out of his ear, whether through being shot, hit his head on something during the whole incident or a USSS agent accidentally whacking him in the head as they cover him with their bodies. -- KTC ( talk) 23:39, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

They’re saying he’s alive. Personisinsterest ( talk) 23:56, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Support. Skyshifter talk 23:27, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Wait Maybe some news sources are just catching up, but the latest updates I see are "suspected shooting" and "audience member reportedly shot". Kingsif ( talk) 23:29, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Wait until more information comes out, then Support. Absolutely a notable and newsworthy event, but the article should be given the time it needs to develop. ArkHyena ( talk) 23:37, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support Confirmed shooting with multiple casualties. It looks like Trump was grazed by a bullet. This is massive news and the article is of adequate quality for posting. - Ad Orientem ( talk) 23:46, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  Hit with glass shrapnel from the teleprompter, apparently. So there was a shooting at a Trump rally, but it didn't involve Trump. Kingsif ( talk) 23:54, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  Do you have a source for this? ꧁ Zanahary꧂ 23:58, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  Axios via Guardian, hasn't been removed or corrected as of now. Kingsif ( talk) 00:02, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  Seems unlikely given the teleprompter would have had to be behind him. Jevansen ( talk) 00:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  Insanely bad take. I can't fathom the levels of bias necessary to suggest "there was a shooting ... but it didn't involve Trump." The Guardian citation doesn't support your interpretation. Dr Fell ( talk) 00:34, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  It's best not to worry about what's going on in other editors' brains, and to instead focus your attention to the editorial decisions they make and influence. ꧁ Zanahary꧂ 00:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  @ Dr Fell and Zanahary: You both need to remember WP:NPA, remember this is not Twitter, and remember that there were many developments in reporting in the half hour between my and your comments. Kingsif ( talk) 01:10, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  Kingsif respectfully, I have not even grazed a personal attack. I told Dr Fell not to worry about any editor’s apparent bias, in favor of concerning themselves with the editorial decisions we have to make about this ITN item. ꧁ Zanahary꧂ 01:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  In light of this, retracted. Kingsif ( talk) 01:14, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Wait for more details to filter in and populate the article (besides rection kudzu). Its clearly an event to be posted but we aren't here to do breaking news, and instead should wait until we have a reasonable quality article. There is zero reason to rush to post. -- Masem ( t) 23:47, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support but wait for more details like how was the weapon smuggled into the rally? Also an audience member died, why isn’t that casualty in the alt blurb?

Wafflefrites ( talk) 23:53, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Not re: your vote Wafflefrites, but just so you know: it seems that the shooter was on a rooftop outside the rally. ꧁ Zanahary꧂ 00:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Support Casualties are already reported and this is major news, while the article is in good shape. Ppt91 ^talk 23:54, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support I think we’ve gotten enough information to put this on the front page now. Estreyeria ( talk) 23:58, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Support Holy shit. Bremps ... 00:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Support - this is a significant and recent news story Enoryt nwased lamaj ( talk) 00:02, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Note He was injured as a result of the shooting, there is (I haven't seen) as yet no confirmation that he was shot, so neither of the proposed blurb is okay as it stand. -- KTC ( talk) 00:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Support posting but Strong Oppose current blurb and alternative. Former President of the United States Donald Trump injured in assassination attempt at campaign rally in Butler, Pennsylvania. Dr Fell ( talk) 00:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support Not sure how else you can interpret this as anything other than an assassination attempt. Scu ba ( talk) 00:19, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  It's not up to Wikipedia editors to "interpret" an event. –  Muboshgu ( talk) 00:27, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  Wikipedia is a tertiary source, and luckily we are not saddled with the task of interpreting events—only repeating the reports of reliable secondary sources. It'll become clear in the next few hours how sources are treating this (and I'll be surprised if it's not as an assassination attempt, considering the report I read about the local police investigating it as an attempt on DJT's life). ꧁ Zanahary꧂ 00:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Support blurb3 This was an assassination attempt. "was injured" is ambiguous. — hako9 ( talk) 00:24, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support. Assassination attempt or not, there's no question that one person was shot dead at an event involving a former U.S. president. As I write this the story at NY Times' website says "Trump ‘Safe’ After Shooting at Rally; Suspect Is Killed". This is a no brainer for main page. ☆ Bri ( talk) 00:26, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support There’s no ambiguity around this shooting happening and being notable. CNN has already reported this is being investigated as an assassination attempt. Delay this further is absurd. Kcmastrpc ( talk) 00:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support - No need to wait as article is cited and will grow as we speak. Morogris ( ✉ • ✎) 00:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Comment Further international coverage, [3] from the ABC, who had a reporter on site, and who describes one of the dead as "the person who fired shots in the former president's direction". Elsewhere, the same page says "Associated Press is reporting that the shooting is being investigated as an assassination attempt", "Washington Post reporter Meryl Kornfield says authorities told her Mr Trump was grazed by gunfire", and our ambassador and former PM Kevin Rudd has released a statement regarding "the attack on former President Trump". Nyttend ( talk) 00:46, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support - Incident itself has been confirmed. -- DannyC55 ( Talk) 00:48, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

 Posted. El_C 00:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Wait. Per @ Masem. Also consider using File:Shooting of Donald Trump.webp. LuxembourgLover ( talk) 00:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

This image cannot be used, as it is likely a copyrighted image, and not fair use. Natg 19 ( talk) 00:55, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Wait for reasons stated above. We certainly cannot mention numbers at the moment, as they will quickly get outdated. Ornov Ganguly ( talk) 00:58, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  We routinely post major events involving casualties, and then update the blurb as the facts warrant. - Ad Orientem ( talk) 01:22, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Comment: Blurb should be re-written to stick to the known facts. No investigative body has concluded that it's an assassination attempt, but they are investigating it as such. So the confirmed information: 2 dead, there was a shooting, Trump was injured, they're inestigating it as an assassination attempt. Harizotoh9 ( talk) 01:18, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Comment: I think outright labelling it as an assassination attempt is projection on Wikipedia's part. I don't think any reliable sources have labelled it as such. Even the article itself just says it is being "investigated as an assassination attempt" but doesn't outright label it an assassination attempt. At the very least the blurb should reflect what is written in the article it is relating to. RahelTensions ( talk) 01:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Change blurb to ALT2 per @ Harizotoh9. Even though it is fairly obvious that it was an assassination attempt this has not been confirmed and RS have only said it's being investigated as an assassination attempt, not that it was. ALT2 reflects the current facts of the situation. Jbvann05 01:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  Oh and there were two confirmed deaths so the Alt2 blurb is out of date already. One rally attendee and the shooter. Harizotoh9 ( talk) 01:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  I've softened to possible assassination attempt, for now. El_C 01:46, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  FBI confirms assassination attempt. Was gonna omit possible, but it looks like Ad Orientem beat me to it. El_C 05:23, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Support altblurb2 As per Jbvann then swap back to altblurb3 when confirmed. Sharrdx ( talk) 03:15, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Change blurb to Alt2 Mentioning that someone was killed makes it the best description of what happened. Blaylockjam10 ( talk) 02:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Change blurb to Alt3 Associated Press says shooting being investigated as assassination attempt. ^[1] CoatCheck ( talk) 02:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Change to Altblurb2 "investigated as an assassination attempt" =/= "confirmed assassination attempt." Goal and motive still not know, so we should avoid assuming on what it is. Unless we get a RS stating that it's not just being "investigated as an assassination attempt" but outright declared as one, the ITN should not claim it as such. Nottheking ( talk) 05:26, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

The FBI specifically called it an assassination attempt. RahelTensions ( talk) 05:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Oppose The incident is obviously interesting and in the news but it doesn't seem sufficiently certain, settled and stable to be suitable for presentation as an encyclopedia article. Issues include:

1. Biden and Trump are both continually in the news as the presidential campaign progresses. For example, Biden's gaffes and the pressure on him to retire have been all over the news lately. It seems difficult to cherry-pick particular incidents in a balanced way and so the whole thing better belongs in Ongoing.
2. The article about the incident is still a work-in-progress. For example, it currently uses a powerful image as fair use but the validity of this copyright issue is contested and unresolved.
3. The incident is a crime but investigations are not yet complete. For example, the BBC reports that the shooter was spotted crawling into position minutes ahead of the shooting but nothing was done. The article does not yet explain this.
4. There's already a big cloud of social media speculation, disinformation and misinformation out there which muddies the waters.
5. We really don't need Donald Trump's smiling picture on the main page once again.

Andrew🐉( talk) 06:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

1. If 'In the news' covered everyday campaign news, concern about cherry-picking events in a balanced way would be justified. Certain events within the presidential campaign are independently newsworthy. An assassination attempt on a former president and current presidential candidate is a significant (and likely historical) event.
2. Featuring relevant and timely news often means linking to articles that are neither settled nor stable. The article is unambiguously flagged as a current event.
3. You've repeated your concern about developing stories featuring in 'In the news.' The utility of 'In the news' is reduced for users if articles are only featured once they have matured.
4. On the contrary, featuring this story helps combat social media speculation, disinformation, and misinformation by offering readers a fact-based resource.
5. Your last point significantly weakens the preceding four.

Dr Fell ( talk) 17:51, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

ITN has moved on and so these points are mostly moot now. But the red link for Dr Fell is a nice puzzle and I fancy I have a solution. Now that's encyclopædic – well done! Andrew🐉( talk) 20:30, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Support We recently posted Robert Fico’s assassination attempt, so it’s sensible to post a similar event involving a former US president and a clear front-runner in this year’s election. Yes, it seems like we post a lot of news about him, but we’re closely approaching the election and the next news to post should be his victory.-- Kiril Simeonovski ( talk) 07:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Slightly jumping ahead of the electoral process there, aren't you? GenevieveDEon ( talk) 09:51, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

The user did jump the gun a bit, but I have a gut feeling that Trump's face is going to get on ITN at least six more times before he dies (win or lose this election) then again after he does. Bremps ... 12:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Oh, I now support the posting (although I don't think we need the picture - it's still not related to the story). It was the 'should be his victory' part that seems wildly premature! GenevieveDEon ( talk) 13:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

(Posted) KP Sharma Oli becomes PM of Nepal

-. Rushtheedtior ( talk) 16:39, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Support in principle but oppose inasmuch as it doesn't have any mention of the change in the article This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang ( talk) 22:56, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Oppose Currently, the article for the new PM doesn't actually mention him becoming the PM (for the current term), so this needs to be updated. Gödel2200 ( talk) 23:29, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support as the above concerns have been addressed ꧁ Zanahary꧂ 23:35, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Support Article is well-sourced and of sufficient quality for ITN -- MtPenguinMonster ( talk) 01:24, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Support. Many very reliable authentic citations and sources in an article of sufficient quality, like above. 64.251.82.42 ( talk) 02:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Support Notable enough Scu ba ( talk) 02:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Support Notable and of passable quality. Deprecated controversy section, but oh well, nothing's perfect. Bremps ... 04:14, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

@ Admins willing to post ITN: I believe that this is ready for posting. Bremps ... 12:01, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Comment The target article still does not have any prose about him becoming prime minister. Gödel2200 ( talk) 12:04, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Has anyone actually looked at the bolded article before requesting this is posted. Not a mention of 2024 activities leading to his 4th term. Step hen 12:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Oppose article needs more info on 2024 as per Stephen. Also violates WP:Controversy section. Joseph 2302 ( talk) 18:01, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support An article about a notable event, with well-sourced citations, and which is a good quality article. 2604:3D08:9476:BE00:4DE:B079:824F:421A ( talk) 20:46, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support Article updated with information leading to current premiership. Nepalaya001 ( talk) 01:38, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Posted Since Stephen's assessment some 1.5 days ago, the article has been updated. As oppose votes focussed on a lack of updates, there's thus consensus for this to go to the main page. Schwede 66 10:16, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

RD: Richard Simmons

Mooonswimmer 20:50, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Support - American notable celebrity. Harizotoh9 ( talk) 20:57, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  Notability isn't a requirement for RD, only death blurbs (though I won't touch that third rail any further...) Only article quality matters for RD. Bremps ... 04:16, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• RIP Richard Simmons. As for the RD nomination, the article needs a few more citations before it's ready to be on the main page. Kurtis ^(talk) 21:15, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Oppose on article quality alone. It needs a great deal of work. Simmons is certainly notable enough. Challenger l ( talk) 23:11, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  RD doesn't discriminate by notability, much like the Grim Reaper himself. Unless, of course, the subject is so non-notable that they shouldn't have a page, but that's neither here nor there. Bremps ... 04:18, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Comment. Richard Simmons: "Please don’t rain on my parade." 🤣🤣🤣 Count Iblis ( talk) 23:36, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support when ready Randy Kryn ( talk) 23:30, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Oppose RIP to such an amazing person. But, the article still has various cn and other tags. PrinceofPunjab ^TALK 15:57, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

RD: Tonke Dragt

Dutch children's author and illustrator. 240F:7A:6253:1:8C6E:5302:D3E9:4A7A ( talk) 01:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Oppose Only a few uncited statements holding this back. Bremps ... 06:25, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Support no more uncited statements, this can be promoted now. Jaguarnik ( talk) 04:17, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Oppose three cn tags still remain and bibliography is also unsourced. PrinceofPunjab ^TALK 16:01, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

RD: Bill Viola

American contemporary video artist. 240F:7A:6253:1:8C6E:5302:D3E9:4A7A ( talk) 01:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Oppose Several uncited statements. Bremps ... 06:26, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Support have referenced the uncited statements. yorkshiresky ( talk) 19:56, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Support looks good to go. PrinceofPunjab ^TALK 16:02, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

(Posted) RD: Ruth Westheimer

Article:  Ruth Westheimer ( talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination ( Post)
News source(s): The Washington Post, Times of Israel, NPR
Credits:

• Nominated by ElijahPepe ( talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Support, but some issues remain, but close She's pretty close, but likely there's missing sources or some other issues. However, she should be ready soon. TheCorriynial ( talk) 18:44, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Picture/blurb I'm in the UK and just heard a BBC news bulletin announce her death. I was already familiar with her large reputation and feel that she's a good example of the celebrity for which an RD picture is appropriate. A blurb would be good too, to explain to unfamiliar readers how and why she was so influential. Note also that the article is substantial, has a high quality rating, 175 inline citations and a huge bibliography.

Also, we should run this as Dr. Ruth per WP:COMMONNAME.

Andrew🐉( talk) 19:16, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Strong support Death was very newsworthy in numerous international sources. With respect to the listing name, I agree commonname applies, but would propose Dr. Ruth Westheimer which would provide more adequate detail and clarification. I'll also propose the following as a blurb to further that discussion, however I am not sure if a blurb is necessarily called for here:

• "Radio and television celebrity sex therapist, Dr. Ruth Westheimer, dies at age 96 in Manhattan."

With or without blurb, definitely a strong candidate for inclusion. Bgv. ( talk) 19:54, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Support - No blurb - "American celebrity dies" should go to RD. Harizotoh9 ( talk) 22:04, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support for RD - article looks thoroughly sourced. Challenger l ( talk) 23:11, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support Photo RD More known by name than face, but the photo seems to be the whole point of an otherwise superfluous blurb for some (and the currently posted smiley makes little sense in its context). InedibleHulk ( talk) 04:22, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Requests I've cleaned up most of the citation overkill, but She appeared on the BBC radio show Desert Island Discs in 1990, on The Arsenio Hall Show once in 1990, once in 1991, once in 1993, and once in 1994, on The Howard Stern Show once in 1991, on Late Night with Conan O'Brien once in 1994, twice in 1995, three times in 1996, and once in 1997, on The Daily Show once in 1998, and was featured in a Celebrity Deathmatch episode in 1999.[111][112][113][114][115][116] is prohibitively clunky. Anyone more skilled want to try? Maybe get the Accolades in chronological order? InedibleHulk ( talk) 05:06, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  It'd seem these flaws don't affect "article quality" here. InedibleHulk ( talk) 03:38, 16 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Posted— Bagumba ( talk) 15:48, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

RD: Billy Ibadulla

Death announced on 12 July. Article will need further updates to make it ready. Schwede 66 23:54, 12 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Comment Sourcing looks good, but the article seems short to me. Challenger l ( talk) 23:11, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply
  • There are currently 600+ words of prose in this wikibio. More than long enough to not be considered a stub. -- PFHLai ( talk) 01:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Oppose Uncited statements. Bremps ... 22:37, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

RD: Monte Kiffin

NFL coach. Needs some work. Natg 19 ( talk) 00:41, 12 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Not Ready. Several citations are still required. 🛧 Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 03:42, 12 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Oppose There's some WP:PEACOCK which has been disputed on the talk page without resolution for fifteen years. And the article is just rated Start class. A reasonable picture though. Andrew🐉( talk) 17:00, 12 July 2024 (UTC) reply

RD: Aparna (television presenter)

Indian anchor and actress. mwwv ^converse∫ _edits 18:14, 11 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Not ready; many citations are missing. Schwede 66 21:32, 11 July 2024 (UTC) reply

RD: Shelley Duvall

Article:  Shelley Duvall ( talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination ( Post)
News source(s): Variety
Credits:

• Nominated by Vacant0 ( talk · give credit)
• Updated by  FloorMadeOuttaFloor ( talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

• Support, notable actor with major role in The Shining, no issues with article. 5.57.241.186 ( talk) 16:34, 11 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Oppose there are a lot of unsourced lines. _-_Alsor ( talk) 17:36, 11 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support once typical missing refs are fixed. Kcmastrpc ( talk) 18:17, 11 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support Notable enough, good article quality. -- NoonIcarus ( talk) 20:08, 11 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  NoonIcarus, please note that notability is NOT one of the criteria for a recent death posting. All that matters is article quality. Schwede 66 21:13, 11 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Conditional support -- still a few uncited film credits / one "unreliable source" tag to fix; support once those are good. ~Malvoliox ( talk | contribs) 21:23, 11 July 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Support now -- no more citation needed tags. There is that one "unreliable source?" tag but it seems reasonably good. ~Malvoliox ( talk | contribs) 16:43, 12 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support once fixed. Spotted a few more paragraphs that need citations. Apart from that, no issues found. 🛧 Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 03:49, 12 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Picture Just the name didn't do it for me as initially I was confusing it with other Shelleys like Winters and Long. We have a PD picture which is quite recognisable and so we should use it. Andrew🐉( talk) 06:32, 12 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• We don't do picture RDs, but go ahead and propose it if you want. Natg 19 ( talk) 06:57, 12 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  We've posted a picture RD more than once. For example, see Kirk Douglas. And it's good to do this because otherwise we keep running the same picture day after day. For example, we're 12 days into the month but we've only posted 4 different pictures. Changing the picture every day like the other main page sections ought to be our goal and using RD pics is an easy way of achieving this. Andrew🐉( talk) 09:01, 12 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  This was four years ago, and I don't think we need to open another front of endless debate. _-_Alsor ( talk) 09:13, 12 July 2024 (UTC) reply

There is already a discussion about this on the talk page, and unless there is a consensus to do picture RDs, there is no point asking for this. Natg 19 ( talk) 16:17, 12 July 2024 (UTC) reply

The general consensus of the talk page discussion seems to be that picture RDs are a good idea and should be posted when appropriate. So let's get on with it – nothing ventured, nothing gained. Andrew🐉( talk) 16:40, 12 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Agreed. Kcmastrpc ( talk) 18:46, 12 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Comment Article appears to be in a good shape now. Kcmastrpc ( talk) 18:47, 12 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  Nope, the article has several unsourced paragraphs. Nowhere close to being ready. Masem ( t) 23:16, 12 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Support - She was big in the 70's and 80's, and starred in several very well known films. Harizotoh9 ( talk) 19:56, 12 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support Photo RD (in due time) As Andrew notes, there are other famous acting Shelleys, but none with that face; could also possibly appease those who don't think Pezeshkian earned his spot freely and/or fairly. InedibleHulk ( talk) 22:47, 12 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  What happened to the time-tested "Old Man/Woman Died" argument? Seems not to apply to pictures, I guess... Khuft ( talk) 15:52, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  Correct. InedibleHulk ( talk) 04:11, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Given that there are no normal blurbs in the queue that are likely to be posted and/or lack a photo themselves, this seems like a reasonable case to include a photo for the RD. However, I stress the article is nowhere close to being ready for posting due to lack of sourcing on several paragraphs. -- Masem ( t) 23:29, 12 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support RD only Not sure why she is more deserving of a picture than others currently on the RD docket. Her fame rests basically on one movie, and the cult following it has attracted. Article looks fine for me. Khuft ( talk) 15:49, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support picture rd Since we don't seem to have a picture for the French Election, this should be fine until the euros final tomorrow (because we will certainly have a picture for that). Sharrdx ( talk) 16:35, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Oppose Quite a few sentences in the 1980s section are unsourced, so it is still not ready. Gödel2200 ( talk) 17:40, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

RD: David Liederman

Staraction ( talk | contribs) 06:11, 11 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Oppose - lots of cn tags and redlinks. Also the RD occurred on July 4, and per WP:ITN, we generally go by the date of the event. ~Malvoliox ( talk | contribs) 21:00, 11 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  Comment – it seems his death has only been announced within the last 24 hours. The nominator should comment on that when that happens, though. Schwede 66 21:18, 11 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  Got it -- still oppose for missing citations, but take this as a support once those have been fixed. ~Malvoliox ( talk | contribs) 21:22, 11 July 2024 (UTC) reply

  Apologies for the confusion @ Malvoliox @ Schwede66, I normally nominate on the death date but this time the source gave a vague "on Thursday"; since the NYT article was last updated on Thursday, July 11, I assumed it was July 11th and nominated it there. Staraction ( talk | contribs) 03:32, 12 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Three {cn} tags remaining. Please add more REFs. -- PFHLai ( talk) 01:11, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

(Posted) RD: Nana Nuriana

Former governor in Indonesia. Juxlos ( talk) 03:06, 11 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Support, with AGF for the offline Indonesian source backing up what it claims to back up. Schwede 66 21:25, 11 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Posted. -- PFHLai ( talk) 00:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

RD: Thomas Hoepker

Staraction ( talk | contribs) 03:23, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Oppose The usual problem. Bremps ... 08:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

RD: Peter Steedman

Student activist from the 1960s and ratbag Australian politician from the 1980s, known for wearing jeans and a leather jacket into Parliament. HiLo48 ( talk) 11:25, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

RD: Dave Loggins

American singer-songwriter. 240F:7A:6253:1:D121:B15C:C03A:6F95 ( talk) 04:00, 12 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Support Good to go. Let's roll. Bremps ... 04:53, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• The career section needs more sources for all the namedropping. The third table in the Discography section is also completely unsourced. Please add more REFs. -- PFHLai ( talk) 01:16, 14 July 2024 (UTC) reply

(Posted) RD: Joe Engle

NASA astronaut. 240F:7A:6253:1:D121:B15C:C03A:6F95 ( talk) 03:28, 12 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Support, for RD, of course. Engle was the last of the 12 X-15 pilots (a big deal) and the astronaut who was scheduled to walk on the Moon on Apollo 17 but was replaced by a geologist (after Apollo 18 was canceled). Among the two Space Shuttle missions he commanded was the project's second flight. Engle is one of spaceflight's pioneers. Randy Kryn ( talk) 03:44, 12 July 2024 (UTC) reply

It might be a big deal, but what does " last of the 12 X-15 pilots" mean? HiLo48 ( talk) 05:25, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

It indicates that Joe Engle was one of the earliest pioneers of spaceflight, and was the last surviving member of the first group in this list of all astronauts/cosmonauts. (to be honest, that article tells the entire answer/story well enough on its own; the rest of my reply is just more historical context)

Worth noting that the X-15 pilots were selected before those of either Mercury or Vostok, thus making the X-15 program the earliest astronaut program to put anyone in space. (even if said spaceflights did not occur until a year or so after the other two programs) On top of that, the X-15 was the world's first hypersonic fixed-wing aircraft.

This placed Engle in a very exclusive club; while the FAI does not recognize him as having flown in space in the X-15, both NASA & the US Air Force do recognize him as having flown due to having passed an altitude of 50 miles (80,467.2 meters or 264,000 feet) on three occasions. (also worth noting that the Air Force selection for X-15 pilots would include a far more well-known member in Neil Armstrong, first person to set foot on the Moon)

With Engle's passing, there are no longer any surviving members of the first group of pilots seriously selected to go to space. This leaves Boris Volynov as the earliest-surviving astronaut/cosmonaut, as the sole surviving member of the USSR's first cosmonaut selection. Nottheking ( talk) 17:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Yes, but can you translate "12 X-15" to English please? HiLo48 ( talk) 23:34, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

The X-15 was a specific type of aircraft. It was only ever flown by 12 pilots. Engle was the last living of those twelve. — Cryptic 23:49, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Thank you. HiLo48 ( talk) 23:51, 15 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Support for RD. Article is generally in good shape. Daniel Quinlan ( talk) 07:39, 12 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support RD. well written and cited. Good citation on death ~Malvoliox ( talk | contribs) 19:08, 12 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support. Article is in great shape; easily meriting its B-class rating. (and probably not far off from GA) Kind of a shocker this hasn't been posted yet. It's pretty clearly ready for it, and it's nice to have more decent-quality articles in RD. Nottheking ( talk) 08:17, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Support There was an effort ( Wikipedia:WikiProject Spaceflight/Adopt an astronaut) a few years back to get the astronaut articles up to GA or better, but we only got as far as the 1963 class. We got groups 1 thru 7 to B class though. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Support as per Nottheking, how has this not been posted yet? Sharrdx ( talk) 16:38, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Posted. Newyorkbrad ( talk) 23:56, 13 July 2024 (UTC) reply

RD: Benji Gregory

American actor. He was found dead on June 13, but his death was announced on this day. 240F:7A:6253:1:A864:DA97:9C83:9E71 ( talk) 03:13, 11 July 2024 (UTC) reply

• Not ready with regards to referencing. Schwede 66 06:07, 11 July 2024 (UTC) reply
• Comment Played the boy in ALF. I know some people know and others would find out. But some don't or won't. InedibleHulk ( talk) 23:27, 11 July 2024 (UTC) reply

(Posted) RD: Maxine Singer

Article updated and well sourced. Death announced on this day. -- TDKR Chicago 101 ( talk) 22:42, 10 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Support Don't see any issues, solid B-class (or maybe even GA) article in my opinion. Bremps ... 23:51, 10 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Other than an unreferenced date of birth, that looks solid. Schwede 66 06:05, 11 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Now fixed; support since article looks good. Staraction ( talk | contribs) 06:14, 11 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Support Looks good! Estreyeria ( talk) 13:37, 11 July 2024 (UTC) reply

Posted – Schwede 66 23:06, 11 July 2024 (UTC) reply