The result was no consensus. even when discounting SPAs, it is clear that there is disagreement as to the level of sourcing and it is unlikely a consensus is going to form even with more time. Star Mississippi 19:49, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
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Has the notability of this subject improved since its nomination back in 2021? Certainly. Has it improved sufficiently to warrant for a WP:GNG? Unclear - leaning on a negative. Article seems to be reference bombed with sources either with trivial mentions, unreputable sources or run-off-the-mill youtuber reporting.
nearlyevil
665
17:55, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
Update: Vaush appearing in Newsweek and Reuters articles over his clash with JK Rowling could qualify as
WP:1E - none of these sources seem to have significant coverage of him either way, they are mostly about how JK Rowling reacted and other text unrelated to establishing coverage on Vaush specifically. I'd be careful assuming notability as some editors have argued here based on the fact that Vaush's name appeared in the title of an article, instead I'd suggest looking into the depth of the actual content.
Keep He is a major part of BreadTube and there are other BreadTube figures with articles here on Wikipedia— Alecisbored111 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Keep Revising my argument in light of further consideration. Vaush is clearly notable per WP:GNG and WP:CREATIVE.
There is, first of all, more than enough reliable third party material to compose an article, as the existing reference list attests. This includes journalism by The Independent in which Vaush's career features as one of the main subjects; and coverage of online culture in which Vaush is obligatorily included alongside figures Wikipedia has deemed notable, e.g. coverage of the banning of Hasan Piker, Newsweek's coverage of a controversy involving JK Rowling, and coverage of Vaush's publicized debate with Charlie Kirk on the Tim Pool Show by The Focus. None of these constitute "triviality"; this isn't "Bill Clinton's high school jazz band" per the example in WP:GNG. Rather, in all instances the authors describe in relevant terms Vaush's political views and media presence.
Secondly, with the caveat that this is of course relative to other figures in his field, Vaush falls under the first criterion of WP:CREATIVE: "The person is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by peers." Within the media sphere, the capacity to appear equally alongside or to host other figures is a de facto signifier of relative notability. Tucker Carlson, for example, would never appear for interview on a small podcast; but a small podcaster could be interviewed by Tucker Carlson. Figures such as Charlie Kirk and Jordan Peterson will not, as a rule, publicly debate relatively unheard-of individuals, which is why, for example, Jordan Peterson and his agent chose to approach Slavoj Zizek, an extremely reputable academic, for his first debate versus a leftist. As a matter of record, Vaush's channel has hosted conversations with Kyle Kulinski [1] and Ana Kasparian [2]—among several others—and he has participated in a highly publicized debate with Charlie Kirk, as referenced earlier. With this in mind, the idea that Vaush is significantly less notable than those who are clearly within his professional reach, who have Wikipedia articles themselves, is ludicrous.
(Side note: I'm using WP:CREATIVE here because WP:ENTERTAINER is clearly inapplicable to much of modern online media. By its standards, a majority of very famous YouTubers and Twitch streamers would be non-notable as they have not played major roles in "multiple" media productions, since they are largely young individuals whose careers are encapsulated by a single source of content. These guidelines could use an update for modern times; until then we are of course obligated to use common sense per WP:IAR.)
It is also worth noting that Vaush's two YouTube channels currently garner more views per week than those of a directly comparable figure such as Destiny. Vaush's channels also have greater cumulative views—more than two times, in fact—than those of colleagues such as Abigail Thorn, ContraPoints, and Hbomberguy, who also have Wikipedia articles. According to WP:GNG, this should be a factor in consideration.
Regarding another editor's comments that the article has been "source-bombed" or possibly falls under WP:1E: An objective look at the references clearly disproves this. Vaush has been noted for more than one event. The cited coverage, as previously established, is not trivial on Wikipedia's terms. And the use of WP:SPS ("run-of-the-mill YouTuber reporting") is appropriate per WP:ABOUTSELF.
Ultimately, the the threshold for deletion is intrinsically subjective. However, what is not subjective is consistency; in fact, consistency of application is the only yardstick we have in this situation, ensuring fairness and impartiality for what can often be contentious subject matter. If deletion would call into question the validity of the articles of similarly sized or similarly reported-on figures, such as Destiny, Thunderf00t, and no doubt countless others, then those in favor of deletion, based on their stated threshold for noteworthiness, must choose one of the following: accept a double standard, or bite the bullet and advocate for a major purge of mid-sized media figures and even moderately recognized creatives etc. who have probably received similar levels of coverage. In the interest of fairness and practicality, I do not see the case for deletion. Humenni ( talk) 21:57, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
The result was no consensus. even when discounting SPAs, it is clear that there is disagreement as to the level of sourcing and it is unlikely a consensus is going to form even with more time. Star Mississippi 19:49, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is
not a majority vote, but instead a discussion among Wikipedia contributors. Wikipedia has
policies and guidelines regarding the encyclopedia's content, and
consensus (agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes.
However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to assume good faith on the part of others and to sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end. Note: Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected single-purpose accounts:{{subst:
spa|username}} ; suspected
canvassed users: {{subst:
canvassed|username}} ; accounts blocked for
sockpuppetry: {{subst:
csm|username}} or {{subst:
csp|username}} . |
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
Has the notability of this subject improved since its nomination back in 2021? Certainly. Has it improved sufficiently to warrant for a WP:GNG? Unclear - leaning on a negative. Article seems to be reference bombed with sources either with trivial mentions, unreputable sources or run-off-the-mill youtuber reporting.
nearlyevil
665
17:55, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
Update: Vaush appearing in Newsweek and Reuters articles over his clash with JK Rowling could qualify as
WP:1E - none of these sources seem to have significant coverage of him either way, they are mostly about how JK Rowling reacted and other text unrelated to establishing coverage on Vaush specifically. I'd be careful assuming notability as some editors have argued here based on the fact that Vaush's name appeared in the title of an article, instead I'd suggest looking into the depth of the actual content.
Keep He is a major part of BreadTube and there are other BreadTube figures with articles here on Wikipedia— Alecisbored111 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Keep Revising my argument in light of further consideration. Vaush is clearly notable per WP:GNG and WP:CREATIVE.
There is, first of all, more than enough reliable third party material to compose an article, as the existing reference list attests. This includes journalism by The Independent in which Vaush's career features as one of the main subjects; and coverage of online culture in which Vaush is obligatorily included alongside figures Wikipedia has deemed notable, e.g. coverage of the banning of Hasan Piker, Newsweek's coverage of a controversy involving JK Rowling, and coverage of Vaush's publicized debate with Charlie Kirk on the Tim Pool Show by The Focus. None of these constitute "triviality"; this isn't "Bill Clinton's high school jazz band" per the example in WP:GNG. Rather, in all instances the authors describe in relevant terms Vaush's political views and media presence.
Secondly, with the caveat that this is of course relative to other figures in his field, Vaush falls under the first criterion of WP:CREATIVE: "The person is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by peers." Within the media sphere, the capacity to appear equally alongside or to host other figures is a de facto signifier of relative notability. Tucker Carlson, for example, would never appear for interview on a small podcast; but a small podcaster could be interviewed by Tucker Carlson. Figures such as Charlie Kirk and Jordan Peterson will not, as a rule, publicly debate relatively unheard-of individuals, which is why, for example, Jordan Peterson and his agent chose to approach Slavoj Zizek, an extremely reputable academic, for his first debate versus a leftist. As a matter of record, Vaush's channel has hosted conversations with Kyle Kulinski [1] and Ana Kasparian [2]—among several others—and he has participated in a highly publicized debate with Charlie Kirk, as referenced earlier. With this in mind, the idea that Vaush is significantly less notable than those who are clearly within his professional reach, who have Wikipedia articles themselves, is ludicrous.
(Side note: I'm using WP:CREATIVE here because WP:ENTERTAINER is clearly inapplicable to much of modern online media. By its standards, a majority of very famous YouTubers and Twitch streamers would be non-notable as they have not played major roles in "multiple" media productions, since they are largely young individuals whose careers are encapsulated by a single source of content. These guidelines could use an update for modern times; until then we are of course obligated to use common sense per WP:IAR.)
It is also worth noting that Vaush's two YouTube channels currently garner more views per week than those of a directly comparable figure such as Destiny. Vaush's channels also have greater cumulative views—more than two times, in fact—than those of colleagues such as Abigail Thorn, ContraPoints, and Hbomberguy, who also have Wikipedia articles. According to WP:GNG, this should be a factor in consideration.
Regarding another editor's comments that the article has been "source-bombed" or possibly falls under WP:1E: An objective look at the references clearly disproves this. Vaush has been noted for more than one event. The cited coverage, as previously established, is not trivial on Wikipedia's terms. And the use of WP:SPS ("run-of-the-mill YouTuber reporting") is appropriate per WP:ABOUTSELF.
Ultimately, the the threshold for deletion is intrinsically subjective. However, what is not subjective is consistency; in fact, consistency of application is the only yardstick we have in this situation, ensuring fairness and impartiality for what can often be contentious subject matter. If deletion would call into question the validity of the articles of similarly sized or similarly reported-on figures, such as Destiny, Thunderf00t, and no doubt countless others, then those in favor of deletion, based on their stated threshold for noteworthiness, must choose one of the following: accept a double standard, or bite the bullet and advocate for a major purge of mid-sized media figures and even moderately recognized creatives etc. who have probably received similar levels of coverage. In the interest of fairness and practicality, I do not see the case for deletion. Humenni ( talk) 21:57, 18 March 2022 (UTC)