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Civic Caucus Wikipedia

Hi, thanks for the suggestions. I removed the name of individuals who were/are part of the interview group as well I removed the topics. Any other suggestions are appreciated as I invested a lot of work and revisions over the past couple of months based on editor feedback and would love to have it finished very soon. Luka At The Civic Caucus ( talk) 02:10, 8 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi @ Luka At The Civic Caucus
I appreciate the work you've done, but there's still a lot more to be done. The information you've included is more a fit for the Caucus' own site. To start I would remove everything that is cited to your own website. Yes, that will make for a very short article, but that's OK. What will be accepted here is only what others have said, WP:ORG and WP:SIRS are a good start to help you with the kind of sourcing you should be looking for. You can provide the three best sources and start from there. 47 that you currently have is reference bombing without adding to quality. Let me know if that's helpful? Star Mississippi 02:26, 8 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Ok just fixed it and all sources listed are now independent articles that were written about the Civic Caucus. I hope the draft works better now in its new format. Luka At The Civic Caucus ( talk) 04:46, 8 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Much better @ Luka At The Civic Caucus. I added a few section headers. You can see how to add others if you choose. (Those are not required for acceptance) Star Mississippi 14:47, 8 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Great thank you! Any other suggestions are more than welcome while I wait for it to be reviewed. Luka At The Civic Caucus ( talk) 01:08, 9 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Hey quick question do you know how one can be faster reviewed? I added the tags but still no reviewers have taken a look. Thanks again for the help. Luka At The Civic Caucus ( talk) 23:05, 23 February 2024 (UTC) reply
From the notice, This may take 7 weeks or more, since drafts are reviewed in no specific order. There are 1,859 pending submissions waiting for review.
What is your time concern? You're welcome to continue editing it while waiting for review. Star Mississippi 02:46, 24 February 2024 (UTC) reply
I was just wondering if you had any other tips like assigning a tag. Thank you Luka At The Civic Caucus ( talk) 03:24, 24 February 2024 (UTC) reply
I realize your draft is important to you, but all are equal priority to the reviewers. I would spend some time fixing it while you're waiting as it's unlikely to be accepted as it currently stands. While OSE is bad, please have a look at the format of other articles. Star Mississippi 14:45, 24 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Okay I will continue to edit Luka At The Civic Caucus ( talk) 19:42, 24 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Great. Happy to answer other questions you have. In the mean time, another editor has worked on the formatting issues. Star Mississippi 22:02, 24 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Great thank you Luka At The Civic Caucus ( talk) 23:25, 24 February 2024 (UTC) reply

FJNovoa

User:Fjnovoa/Fidel Antonio Novoa Meléndez

I have eliminated all citations coming from FamilySearch as requested, I would like to resubmit for review my article. Thank you in advance for your consideration to this matter. Fjnovoa ( talk) 16:25, 29 January 2024 (UTC) reply

User:Fjnovoa/Fidel Antonio Novoa Meléndez

I have added this paragraph, so the subject can pass WP:NPOL

"Dr. Novoa Meléndez legacy belongs to a family that has earned local political notoriety in public service in El Salvador in the 19th and 20th centuries: his father Adolfo Novoa Méndez was Trustee of the City Counsil (Síndico in Spanish) of Sensuntepeque Municipality in 1880, his son Fidel Antonio Novoa Fuentes was a congressman in 1929, both his grandsons Fidel Antonio Novoa Arciniegas was the Mayor of San Salvador in 1964 and Ricardo Armando Novoa Arciniegas was a Judge of the Supreme Court of Justice of El Salvador in 1989."

I have added secondary citation too.

Kindly, could you please reinstate my article. I have put long hours into my project. Fjnovoa ( talk) 20:43, 29 January 2024 (UTC) reply

    • I have responded on your talk page Fjnovoa and have removed my rejection. I do think you need to leave these articles to someone unconnected as the tone remains inappropriate for an encyclopedic project, but will leave it for someone else's review. If this series of articles is ultimately accepted, you should use WP:Edit requests and not edit them directly. Star Mississippi 01:46, 30 January 2024 (UTC) reply

User:Fjnovoa/Fidel Antonio Novoa Meléndez

Hello Star Mississippi,

On my article referenced above, I got rid of all the citations from FamilySearch. I have deleted paragraphs to make more summarized and shorter. I am using citation 1, 10 and 12 as secondary sources. Would you kindly review it and advise any changes for improvement and gaining approval?

Thank you in advance,

@ Fjnovoa Fjnovoa ( talk) 01:54, 2 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi! I think you've done well to improve the sourcing. If you click the blue resubmit button, a reviewer will be along to assess the changes. Let me know if can help in the mean time. Star Mississippi 15:00, 2 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Draft:Fidel Antonio Novoa Fuentes

Hello Star Mississippi, For the above referenced article I have added secondary sources, [8] which is another Wikipedia article. Your review, advise and corrections would be highly appreciated.

@ Fjnovoa Fjnovoa ( talk) 17:37, 2 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi @ Fjnovoa
Unfortunately other wikis and collaboratively edited projects are not viable sources as they're WP:UGC which is not reliable. However you're making good progress, so please keep at it and someone will review. Star Mississippi 17:47, 2 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Thank you, I have now updated citation secondary sources, [8] Fjnovoa ( talk) 22:18, 2 February 2024 (UTC) reply
@ Pppery, @ Theroadislong: I'm not sure I'm following all the page moves. The author and I have been discussing the articles here as well as on their talk. Let me know if anything is needed? Star Mississippi 23:47, 2 February 2024 (UTC) reply

My account has been blocked in the Spanish language.

Hellow StarMississippi,

I am seeking some advice and help please. The articles I have written and submitted for review and approval in English, I was simultaneously translating to Spanish and submitting them too. In the Spanish Wikipedia they were all deleted. As I have learned today, there was an old accusation regarding my user ID from 2013, which I will explain below, in the Spanish language Wikipedia. A comment has been written as if I was attempting to do something with nefarious intent, plagiarizing from another article in the web. But the main issue is that user Taichi has blocked my account, and user Ontzak goes and deletes my requests for review of my blocked account. The later will not give me an explanation why he/she is doing that, and I do not want this blocking to affect my articles nor my user ID in the English language Wikipedia.

Here is my explanation of the misunderstanding, which has been deleted with no explanation an my US ID has a flag that my account is "Special purpose account" (In spanish: Cuenta de propósito particular):

My account has been blocked

{{unblock|reason you should be unblocked}}

I started my articles on www.geocities.com and tried unsuccessfully to copy them to Wikipedia in Spanish back in 2013, since www.geocities.com was closed. I was accused of plagiarism, which makes no sense when I was the author of said proposed articles.

Recently, I restarted my new initiative of submitting my articles for approval. It is not correct that for 10 years I have tried to insert my ancestors. Duly, and in compliance with Wikipedia's policy, I have declared my conflict of interest on my user page. The fact that this contributor may be personally related to the topic or subject of an article does not prevent him from originally writing a neutral professional point of view on a political historical article on the topic or article. More importantly, the contributor, because he may be personally related, has provided a wealth of firsthand data, knows through oral tradition and provides supporting citations, is an authority on research and research for many years on the subject.

Therefore, it can be argued that it is a biographical article (not autobiographical, since the contributor does not contribute about himself), which has a political historical significance; or, on the other hand, a biography of historical political importance that turns out to be contributed by a personal and well-versed person. My articles have been reviewed by academic historians (third parties) who are not personally or professionally related to the contributor or to the topic or subject, analyzing the sources and citations. And in his opinion, although there may be a conflict of interest or a moral hazard, it is a neutral point of view, and duly disclosed on the contributor's user page, as is Wikipedia's policy.

Being blocked and derogatory information about me affects me a lot. My ancestors are remarkable people, and my initiative is only that the truth be published.

Explanatory note: www.geocities.com was part of www.yahoo.com at the beginning of the internet, and when the multinational AT&T bought www.yahoo.com; AT&T was not interested in the web hosting business, and let the website shut down and lose us customers or contributors. My articles existed in the space of www.geocities.com under the web hosting www.novoa.org. Now all my created pages are in the "dark web", and they have malware and viruses when you try to access them. If I wish to migrate my work to Wikipedia in Spanish, it is precisely to avoid losing my investigative work of more than 45 years Fjnovoa ( talk) 22:48, 8 February 2024 (UTC) reply

@ Fjnovoa: ( talk page watcher) Your account is not blocked on English language Wikipedia, and I'm not sure what Star Mississippi could do about your block on Spanish language Wikipedia as he does not edit/is not an admin there. (Actually, Yahoo bought Geocities and ruined it for me.) -- Deepfriedokra ( talk) 00:50, 9 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Thank you for your kind words and response. Fjnovoa ( talk) 01:59, 9 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Thanks @ Deepfriedokra.
@ Fjnovoa in addition to not being an admin there, my Spanish is unfortunately not up to par to make an inquiry on your behalf. If your old website was archived on the Internet Archive you may be able to prove that your content predates the versions and that the ownership of copyright is with you. We call that a Backwards copy but not sure what their policies are there. @ Deepfriedokra do you know of any bilingual editors off hand regardless of whether they're admins there or here? I've worked with @ Fjnovoa here on their suite of articles and while they had some issues getting up to speed with en wiki policies around sourcing, I absolutely believe them to be editing in good faith and would love to help. At worst case, Google translate and I can make a post on their Help Desk. Alternativelt, if you want to make a request here, I'm happy to link to it since I know you're a fluent Spanish speaker. PS: also former Geocities user. RIP them and Tripod Star Mississippi 02:36, 9 February 2024 (UTC) reply
@ Star Mississippi It is so delightful to hear from you, for you bring hope, mentoring and kindness. It been scary and frustrating, at this point I was so concerned that my advances in the en wiki would be affected by their action. There are still 3 of my articles in queue waiting to be reviewed and approved: Draft:Ricardo Armando Novoa Arciniegas, Draft:Joaquín Arciniegas Tavera, and Draft:Constantino Fuentes Parra.
At this point, what is dead in geocities is water under the bridge. I have it all in my head and have made new articles different from those I had there, submitted in en wiki.
@ Deepfriedokra Again, thanks to you too. Wiki is better served having you two around. If you guys ever need a native bilingual person, do not hesitate to call me. Without prejudice of your beliefs, I pray blessings to you guys from above. Fjnovoa ( talk) 05:22, 9 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Very happy to help you at any time @ Fjnovoa. Starting here can be a rough challenge, but you took editors' feedback on board, which is key to a successful editing career here. Blocks are project specific because policies are, and because there were no copyright concerns with your edits there is no risk of you being blocked here. Thanks for flagging your drafts. I'll go have a look to see if I can provide any feedback. Happy to do this at any time. Have a good evening. Star Mississippi 00:07, 10 February 2024 (UTC) reply


Draft:Joaquín Arciniegas Tavera

 – to centralize the discussion for all involved editors Star Mississippi 00:55, 12 February 2024 (UTC) reply
This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Hello @ Star Mississippi Thank you for your comment.

Germán Arciniegas as an example/precedent - like the subject of this articles and above referenced, was approved as ambassador and writer.

I am basing on the Meridian-Webster definition #2: denotes the deputy appointed officer at an embassy.

I quote next from such reference

consul

noun con·​sul ˈkän(t)-səl

Definition

1a either of two annually elected chief magistrates of the Roman republic.
b one of three chief magistrates of the French republic from 1799 to 1804
2 an official appointed by a government to reside in a foreign country to represent the commercial interests of citizens of the appointing country

Synonyms of consul

noun

Definition of consul

as in ambassador, diplomat, attaché, envoy
Additionally, the draft has been reviewed by Carlos Cañas Dinarte, who is an authority in El Salvador History, will comment his review and endorsement after has already reviewed the draft, this weekend. [1] https://www.ecured.cu/Carlos_Ca%C3%B1as_Dinarte

Fjnovoa ( talk) 03:05, 10 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi! What we've seen recently at WP:AFD is some ambassadors have been deleted because thar role isn't enough for preseumed notability, we need more. I don't want to accept your draft and have it immediately brought for deletion, but I'm not positive it wouldn't pass, so left that note for you and future reviewers. You've done excellent work to improve it and the others, so thank you. Star Mississippi 14:20, 10 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Hello @ Star Mississippi
What about if I change the inforbox in html from "officeholder" template to "writer" template. That would no longer show the focus on the ambassadorship but concentrate on the subject as a writer and his contribution to fine arts with the 300 pieces gold collection now being exhibited at the Boston Fine arts museum. Would that work?
And I have removed the sentence from "Achievements" as being a consul and kept it as an "Early life" fact, in the latter section. Fjnovoa ( talk) 15:13, 10 February 2024 (UTC) reply
I think he's much more likely to pass as an WP:NAUTHOR or maybe WP:NARTIST, to that end I'm pinging @ Netherzone who edits in art areas and may be able to help if the sourcing is sufficient there. Thanks for all your help and work on these @ Fjnovoa Star Mississippi 16:59, 11 February 2024 (UTC) reply
I saw this draft a couple days ago, and just had a quick look again. @ Fjnovoa, He sounds like an interesting person, but I'm sorry to say that he does not meet WP:NARTIST criteria for inclusion. Seldom do art collectors qualify, and the current sourcing of his gold collection at the BFA is primary, which simply proves his gold collection exists but does not determine if it is a notable collection.
If there is independent secondary in-depth coverage in reliable sources about the collection, for example in art history books or academic journals, then perhaps the collection itself (rather than him) may be notable, but that's a stretch. If a wing of a museum is named after a person who once owned a collection, that is more standard. (For example the David Geffen Galleries at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art or the Griffin Wing at MoMA.) [2]
If it turns out that the gold collection is notable, but he as an individual is not, there could still be a section on him in an article on the collection. Try doing a search on Google Books, and if you have access, on JSTOR. (If you don't have access to the latter, I do, but don't have the time at the moment to do that research.) Do keep in mind that there are many gold object collections around the world, so it's important to establish why this one in particular may be notable and not WP:MILL. You could also post a message to the talk page of WikiProject Arts as there are experienced editors there who may be able to help.
I'm less familiar with WP:NAUTHOR criteria, but will put the draft on my watchlist and if I have time in the next few days will do some research. If you can find independent reviews or journal articles that discuss his written works, please add them to the article, and when I review it will take these into account. Netherzone ( talk) 17:58, 11 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Thank you so much! Fjnovoa ( talk) 18:42, 11 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Happy superbowl weekend @ Netherzone and @ Star Mississippi,
I now have added the following two paragraph to the article Draft: Joaquín Arciniegas Tavera, facts which was narrated to me by Ricardo Armando Novoa Arciniegas when he was alive and through the oral tradition, for your consideration and with additional citations
After his death, the family inherited multiple documents and papyrus from the Simón Bolívar era that belonged to Arciniegas Tavera, that were later donated to the Colombian Institute and Library Gold Museum through Germán Arciniegas where there is a room or wing named after Don Joaquín Arciniegas in gratitude for such donation.
Additionally, the family donated to Museo Romántico that was founded by Doctor Eduardo Santos in the hacienda Yerbabuena of the Marroquíns; multiple miniature oil paintings authored by Jesús María Zamora, Ricardo Borrero Álvarez, Roberto Páramo, amongst others authors who's work was collected by Arciniegas Tavera.
Fjnovoa ( talk) 20:53, 11 February 2024 (UTC) reply
@ Fjnovoa, This should probably get moved to the draft talk page so other editors and reviewers can see it. Has the oral history been published? If not, unfortunately it's "heresay" and would be considered original research WP:OR which is not reliable for an encyclopedia. If it has been published, it would be a primary source, which is ok to use for fact checking but does not contribute to the notability of the subject. Netherzone ( talk) 21:47, 11 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Help please, @ Theroadislong is reversing any edits I make to the article, as I take both of you, @ Netherzone and @ Star Mississippi recommendations and guidance.
I have written to him/she directly and stated the following
I am still in the process of editing and providing further evidence and citations for the article, after reviews and observations from @Star Mississippi and @Netherzone. Kindly and respectfully, why are you erasing my edits, if the article is still in progress of editing? You are not providing me the opportunity to take care of the issues that have been found with the article that are preventing it from being reviewed and approved.
Please reinstate my edits which are mitigating with corrections and additional information per previous declines. Or are you just blocking any edits I make to not allow me to go forward with my further changes? Fjnovoa ( talk) 22:45, 11 February 2024 (UTC) reply
@ Fjnovoa, the reviewer, @Theroadislong, is highly experienced and I'm certain they made the changes for a WP policy/guidelines reason, there is no reason to doubt their actions. This conversation needs to be moved to the draft talk page, and I am going to move it there in my next edit. Please respond there. Netherzone ( talk) 23:15, 11 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Draft:Joaquín Arciniegas Tavera

 – please only reply there and not here or another User Talk. Star Mississippi 01:49, 13 February 2024 (UTC) reply
This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Hi @ Star Mississippi Kindly, could you please remove the message/comment left for me in the maintenance section, that is in the article page, that reads "Unlike those who held political office, I'm not sure about Tavera's notability as ambassadors are not inherently notable. This one will be a challenge due to age of sourcing, but I'm not going to decline as I think it's borderline".

I believe that I have remediated this, by changing the inforbox in html from office holder to writer, and the office no longer reflects that the subject was a diplomat in the infobox. Moreover, the sentence that used to be in the Achievements sections stating the subject was a consul general has been moved to the Early Life section, with the intent that the focus is not an ambassador, but rather a historian and writer, as well as Pre-Columbian art collector, and a collector of manuscripts and renown paintings of Colombia.

Your consideration is much appreciated. Fjnovoa ( talk) 15:26, 12 February 2024 (UTC) reply

( talk page stalker) We don't remove ANY comments until such time as the draft is accepted. Theroadislong ( talk) 15:28, 12 February 2024 (UTC) reply
( talk page stalker) @ Fjnovoa, I have twice asked you to use the article draft talk page which is located HERE: Draft talk:Joaquín Arciniegas Tavera. Please do so, as the discussion has been closed at this location, and it serves the community as a whole to keep commentary in one place. Please abide by the advise above and do not remove comments. Any maintenance tags should also be left in place until issues are resolve. Please kindly let the reviewers do their work, as they have a neutral POV WP:NPOV, and as a COI editor it seems that you may not. Please be patient and allow the draft to move naturally through the review process. Netherzone ( talk) 00:57, 13 February 2024 (UTC) reply

My apologies

@ Rosguill, Daniel, Deepfriedokra, Netherzone, and Theroadislong: my apologies for that headache you had to deal with. Especially the baseless harassment allegations. I really did believe they were editing in good faith. Le sigh. Thanks again. Star Mississippi 15:07, 15 February 2024 (UTC) reply

No worries! Theroadislong ( talk) 15:14, 15 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Of course you were editing in good faith. You are appreciated! Netherzone ( talk) 15:23, 15 February 2024 (UTC) reply
No problem. Goes with the territory. -- Deepfriedokra ( talk) 15:39, 15 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Fidel Novoa Meléndez

I started spot-checking the content against what the sources actually say in this article Fidel Novoa Meléndez by FJN. I've removed some of the content that definitely was not backed up by some of the sources. A lot of the article seems to be word-of-mouth, family-based oral history, or other original research. Other parts check out, and while I'm not disputing his notability, I think this editor's creations that were deleted from es-wiki need to be checked against what the sources actually say (which are primarily in Spanish). Netherzone ( talk) 17:58, 15 February 2024 (UTC) reply

This makes total sense. I know in the AfC acceptance there were some questions about ideal naming and disambiguation as well. Age of sourcing isn't helping either. I have a Times subscription but not newspapers.com even through TWL, apparently. Star Mississippi 14:52, 17 February 2024 (UTC) reply
I have both Newspapers.com and NewspaperARCHIVE.com thru TWL, so hit me up if you ever need me to look something up for you. The connections are a little unstable (sometimes they go offline), not sure if it's a server issue or WP is renegotiating their agreements with the companies. Thankfully a lot of the sources in FJN's articles are PDFs which I'm using for verification...it's time consuming because of the translations. My Spanish is rusty. (English, my first language ain't that great either, ha!) Netherzone ( talk) 15:12, 17 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michael Baron (2nd nomination)

Happy with your closure, but did you notice the replies were from socks? Doug Weller talk 12:25, 14 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Yep, the paperwork in my closing was in reference to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Emma knows it well. Or did you mean I should have gone back and struck? Happy to do so. I do it in active ones but not typically post close but can change that practice.
The main reason I didn't want to relist is SPI has been so understandably backlogged that I thought we'd acquire new friends before it was resolved and with the strong nom and input from Broc and Xxanthippe, it was one that didn't really even need a relist for consensus since the only arguments against was chatter among socks/meat that didn't really refute the no RS found. Star Mississippi 13:24, 14 February 2024 (UTC) reply
I wouldn't relist either. But I think striking them makes the AfD more transparent. Up to you entirely of course. Doug Weller talk 14:18, 14 February 2024 (UTC) reply
I kept running into issues with the template there since there was so much discussion between the socks so I just amended my close. Will do so in the initial close going forward. Thanks for the suggestion. Star Mississippi 15:15, 15 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Glad to be of help. And good work with the SPI. Some sockmasters don't give up. Doug Weller talk 17:21, 15 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Mail

Hello! Just a quick heads up that I sent you a brief email. Netherzone ( talk) 23:54, 14 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Please, help me!

Hello dear friend. I almost completely rewrote the article and indicated authoritative sources. The article showed the importance of the site and what it does for the citizens of Kazakhstan. Please check. I hope my article is valid. I will be extremely grateful if you publish my article in full! Egov.Press Zzremin ( talk) 20:15, 17 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi @ Zzremin. The article (it is not yours) has been published since earlier today.
Your persistence in discussing perceived injustice and asking about search engines does not inspire confidence that you have no conflict of interest regarding Egov.Press. Please focus on improving the article and the sourcing. Star Mississippi 21:35, 17 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Hello, I have absolutely nothing to do with the EGOV.PRESS project. As a resident of the Republic of Kazakhstan, I wanted to write on the English-language Wikipedia about a site that allows freedom of speech in our country. Most likely, because of my patriotic goals, you thought that I was related to the project. Please be understanding.
I have almost completely rewritten the article. He pointed out authoritative sources and indicated their significance. Please check it out. Thank you. Zzremin ( talk) 21:51, 17 February 2024 (UTC) reply
What is your concern with the search engine then? If your rewrite establishes notability, someone will remove the page. You do not need to continue to post about it repeating the same query, just focus on improving the article and if you have questions leave them on the article Talk where all will see it. Please also do not email me again. Star Mississippi 22:07, 17 February 2024 (UTC) reply
User:Zzremin - What is your concern about the search engine? When an editor asks questions about search engines, which usually are why Google isn't yet finding a newly created article, the usual reason that they are asking is that they are being paid to advertise via Wikipedia, and experienced Wikipedia editors will ask whether they are being paid to advertise via Wikipedia. If you just want to create an encyclopedia article, and Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, it isn't necessary to worry too much about search engines. Robert McClenon ( talk) 21:15, 18 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Sig

Your signature and {{ drv top}} really don't seem to get on too well. No idea why. I tried troubleshooting for like 5mins and couldn't work it out - the only way I fixed it at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2024 February 17 was to close it myself and then copy-paste your sig in. More as an FYI as I don't know why it's happening! Daniel ( talk) 22:30, 17 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Thank you @ Daniel for both the fix and the heads up. Something definitely glitched with that close, I though't I'd fixed it after it inserted something I hadn't typed. But this is the second issue with my sig in about a week so I've stripped everything but the colors until I can figure out what's up with it. Star Mississippi 22:37, 17 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Actually, you were answering a different question than I meant to be asking, although either of them can be inferred from what I wrote. I was asking a procedural question, which was whether our discussion, on a draft, was really about the article, which is the same as the draft. You were answering the substantive question about whether the article should be in article space.

I think that I will start the tedious task of looking at the references. Then again, maybe I will start it, so no promises. Robert McClenon ( talk) 20:28, 18 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Thanks for bringing it here @ Robert McClenon. I've looked at the first 5 web ones, and they don't even mention him. Coupled with the false access dates, the concerns I raised here are noa a red flag. But I don't think AfD is well equipped participation rate right now, to handle this because it looks well sourced but I'm afraid it's a partial hoax.
Pinging @ Onel5969 @ Qcne and @ Wikishovel who have attempted some clean up. Star Mississippi 20:35, 18 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Well, first of all, it's UPE. Should be draftified for that reason alone. I know that a draft already exists, but I would draftify it, and then redirect the second draft to the first. Onel5969 TT me 21:24, 18 February 2024 (UTC) reply
That would make sense to me @ Onel5969. When it comes to blatant shenanigans I have no objection to an out of process re-draftification. @ Robert McClenon, thoughts? And thanks on the above reply, but don't get your hope up. Star Mississippi 21:53, 18 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Oh, hells bells. I draftified it, to save others the headache, then redirected to existing draft. I'm sure I'll get blowback for it. It's one of the reasons I stopped doing NPP. Onel5969 TT me 22:12, 18 February 2024 (UTC) reply
He's a hair from an indef block for promotion, but I'll back you on any queries. Ping me if I miss it. There was no good faith in that repeated recreation. Star Mississippi 22:17, 18 February 2024 (UTC) reply
The originator should avoid throwing any boomerangs. UPE is often accompanied by other improper behavior such as the introduction of falsehoods and plagiarism. Robert McClenon ( talk) 04:46, 19 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Replying to ping: User:onel5969, for what it's worth, your moving it to draft seems to have been a good idea under the circumstances. Wikishovel ( talk) 15:40, 19 February 2024 (UTC) reply
History merge is done (thanks @ Pppery): Abshir Muse Said
I'm going to take it to AfD because this is ridiculous. Appreciate any insight. Star Mississippi 02:52, 22 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Biafra Liberation Army Rescue squadron list

I wish to duly inform you @ Star Mississippi that the Biafra Liberation Army Article mainspace which you just redirected to Simon Ekpa has been listed in Rescue squadron list. It's in accordance with Wikipedia rules and regulations. This is to bring to your notice to this very issue please. I was still improving the article before you redirected it to Simon Ekpa and I couldn't grasp it but now I can see you were never aware. The rescue squadron list is not yet closed. I appeal that you kindly restore the article so that I can continue the improvement of the article, adding multiple RS to it. Thanks for your understanding. Fugabus ( talk) 23:14, 19 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi @ Fugabus! I'm aware of ARS and appreciate the work that was done there, but there was consensus at the AfD. ARS' timer does not supersede that of AfD. However, if you believe my close did not reflect the discussion at the AfD, you're welcome to file a Deletion Review. Star Mississippi 23:40, 19 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi Star Mississippi. Regarding your close, I thought there was enough consensus for a merge; if that discussion were at RM, I think a closer would have found consensus, notwithstanding the objections that it was a pseudo-Latin phrase, on the strength of the argument that it's been cited in other sources beyond the context of Les Misérables; making editors go through another hoop to develop the same consensus seems to run into WP:NOTBURO. voorts ( talk/ contributions) 23:23, 19 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi @ Voorts. Counting heads, there's a slight edge for a merge but rereading all of them, they're about equal in total weight as one of the merger !votes really had nothing behind it.
I don't think a formal merger discussion is necessarily needed, but if you perform the merge, it is possible that someone will disagree and revert it. There isn't the weight of the AfD behind it. Would you like me to relist to see if a consensus can form for a merge? I have no objection to doing so, but am not sure participation won't continue to be split. Thoughts? Star Mississippi 23:44, 19 February 2024 (UTC) reply
I think a relist would potentially be helpful and help get to a consensus. Thanks! voorts ( talk/ contributions) 23:46, 19 February 2024 (UTC) reply
 Done If I missed any steps, let me know or feel free to take. Have a good evening. Star Mississippi 23:56, 19 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Thanks. You as well. voorts ( talk/ contributions) 23:57, 19 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Respectfully, I had edit conflicted with you on the closure of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alex Heckler while trying to !vote on it. I had intended to add a comment in support of keeping the article, as follows:

  • Keep. This individual has been significantly covered by multiple independent reliable sources in the context of multiple events (i.e. this individual easily passes WP:GNG/ WP:NBASIC). Such sources include a ~2,250-word profile in The Wall Street Journal from 2008 and coverage in The South Florida Sun-Sentinel from 2004 and also from 2008. There is also some less substantial coverage of him in The Miami Herald (regarding his non-political work), NBC News ( 2003, 2013; each regarding his role as a fundraiser), The Tampa Bay Times (regarding his appointment to Chair of the Governor's Cabinet of the Democratic Governors' Association), The New York Times (with coverage of his 2007 wedding, as well as more passing mention in 2011 regarding fundraising). Appeals to WP:NPOL are a bit spurious; his notability does not come from holding or running for public office, and he himself is not a politician in a plain sense.

I understand that this comes belatedly, but I am wondering if you would be willing to re-open and relist the discussion so that additional sources can be discussed. — Red-tailed hawk  (nest) 03:22, 21 February 2024 (UTC) reply

I'm not sure it's going to make a difference in the end, but happy to for more input. Give me about 2m. Star Mississippi 03:29, 21 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Thank you!Red-tailed hawk  (nest) 03:31, 21 February 2024 (UTC) reply
and then I E/Ced with you on my relist comment. The universe was out of alignment tonight, or a little too well aligned, depending on how you want to look at it :D Star Mississippi 03:37, 21 February 2024 (UTC) reply

AfC notification: Draft:Mark Francis (arts administrator) has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Mark Francis (arts administrator). Thanks! GoingBatty ( talk) 03:42, 21 February 2024 (UTC) reply

What Do I Have to Do? (Stabbing Westward song)

Instead of closing Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/What Do I Have to Do? (Stabbing Westward song), should we not relist this at the highly visible AFD to establish consensus? -- Jax 0677 ( talk) 13:01, 22 February 2024 (UTC) reply

It was already relisted. The article isn't going to be deleted as no one but you was in favor of that, therefore more time at an overwhelmed AfD isn't needed. If there's no disagreement on a merger proposal, someone can do it boldly. That said, if you believe my close was in error you're welcome to file a Deletion Review. Star Mississippi 13:08, 22 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Deletion review for What Do I Have to Do? (Stabbing Westward song)

An editor has asked for a deletion review of What Do I Have to Do? (Stabbing Westward song). Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. Jax 0677 ( talk) 21:32, 24 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Thank you @ Jax 0677. I'll respond there to keep it all central. Star Mississippi 21:56, 24 February 2024 (UTC) reply

It looks like the user you banned is still working on Draft:Aleksandar Saša Trajkovski as an IP editor. I doubt anyone uninvolved is going to start working on a draft of an obscure Macedonian writer, anyway... -- asilvering ( talk) 17:06, 23 February 2024 (UTC) reply

thanks. I've blocked. Did the SPI ever get resolved? That's some deafening quacking that didn't need it, but wanted to note it there if it did. Star Mississippi 17:12, 23 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Oh Found it. @ Spicy CU blocked Shviki ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
FYI Spicy if you want to take this IP as a CU block with the others or otherwise handle. Star Mississippi 17:28, 23 February 2024 (UTC) reply
shocker shocker, Hristijan Kicho ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) came back. I've just sock blocked them as well. Star Mississippi 19:06, 23 February 2024 (UTC) reply
one wonders why they even try... -- asilvering ( talk) 23:00, 23 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Talking

Hi there, just wanted to chat you up so you understand my position. I am not advocating to allow them to continue disruption. I only want to see the opportunity to change that behavior into something useful and not be cast out with no voice at all. I think that depending on the level of what they are saying some leeway on talk pages should be there because it allows the ability to hopefully change those opinions. I hope you understand I don't mean to continue to allow them to say things that are inappropriate.

I'm probably naive here but I think things like racism, sexism and this gender stuff comes from people on both sides trying to make the other the boogeyman with people not taking the time to hear some of the things they need to hear. I don't support discrimination on trans or abuse in any shape, if what I said comes off that way I apologize. I'm not them, I don't feel those feelings personally so I don't have a big window to how they experience the world. What I do know is that while I don't understand some of it, I don't need to, the only thing I have to do is treat them good and give them the same respect and love I'd want. I experience the world the way I do and it's as unique to me as is theirs to them. I hope what I said hasn't or didn't offend you, it wasn't meant to. Unbroken Chain ( talk) 01:10, 25 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi! Definitely easier here than ANI. MY concern with letting them learn is it impacts other editors who are harmed by hearing nonsense (from the editor we're talking about, not you) from editors who aren't trying to learn but are spouting trite talking points. No one but AGC was confused at who "they" referred to here because it was well written. He - assuming based on screen name - appears contrite so hopefully they have learned and will be productive elsewhere. My experience is folks, especially with a particular userbox, don't change their spots, but happy to be wrong here. Thanks for reaching out. Star Mississippi 01:23, 25 February 2024 (UTC) reply
You are probably not wrong if they persisted after the AE warnings but in my case it did take a gender and sexuality class in university to understand some of the "benevolent" sexism stuff that I would fall into without realizing it. The documentary Intersexion also made me view the trans issue different. I learned there was a science to it that I had not known of previously and it taught me the realization that not being a doctor I am not qualified to make a determination on these issues and if that was the case I don't want to cause people pain. Maybe the same or similar can happen here with them. I appreciate that you took time to read and respond to me here. It was important for me to make sure you didn't feel like I was promoting that viewpoint :) Unbroken Chain ( talk) 01:32, 25 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Never took you to be promoting that and never seen you as editing in anything but a positive light so we're all good. Nuance is hard at AN, so appreciate you reaching out. Star Mississippi 02:38, 25 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Thanks!

Hello, Star Mississippi,

Thank you for cleaning up all of those unnecessary AFD nominations. I think the account must be compromised because I looked at their earlier edits and they were solid, gnomish editing. I don't know why they went over-the-top, nominating so many decent articles. But, maybe, if they post an unblock request, there might be some clarity about this. But thanks for your swift action and on a weekend! Liz Read! Talk! 02:07, 25 February 2024 (UTC) reply

You're most welcome @ Liz. Credit where due too to @ Tollens who walked me through it and caught some that I missed.
Potential socking has been raised at ANI and I haven't had time to look into it, but a compromised account would also make sense. Lots of weirdness afoot this weekend. Star Mississippi 02:33, 25 February 2024 (UTC) reply

I've been whacked with a wet trout.

You're right. I shouldn't be using Wikipedia for social networking. For that, you deserve the right to hit me with the trout. However, I do have to admit that DFO did thank me for my edit on his talk page, but other than that, I take all responsibility and fault for the edit. NoobThreePointOh ( talk) 19:42, 26 February 2024 (UTC) reply

No trouts needed. Just put the energy to good use. Have a great day. Star Mississippi 21:59, 26 February 2024 (UTC) reply
( talk page stalker) I have to disagree. I NEED trouts. Hooked 3 today and they all got away!! GRRRR Unbroken Chain ( talk) 02:12, 27 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Dinner is on you next time then @ Unbroken Chain!
I recently learned, albeit not from our article, that Roscoe, New York is Trout Town USA! Perhaps that's where they all headed to Star Mississippi 02:39, 27 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Nauman335

Can't make this up. They are back as user KnownIt. CNMall41 ( talk) 22:16, 27 February 2024 (UTC) reply

We're on Wiki Candid Camera! Star Mississippi 00:38, 28 February 2024 (UTC) reply

There was just one comment in this AFD, and he did not actually say the article is to be redirected, only that it is one the plausible options, something the nominator then interpreted as a "redirect" vote. I'd strongly suggest this should have been relisted instead of closed. Howard the Duck ( talk) 20:23, 28 February 2024 (UTC) reply

 Done @ Howard the Duck
I hesitate to whether we'll get more meaningful input, but happy to give it more time. Thanks for flagging. Star Mississippi 01:55, 29 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Thanks. I made the article, but have decided not to participate, just to let how other people argue this. If no one else comments, I would rather would have closed as "no consensus to delete", as the sole !vote actually argued against deletion, and was misconstrued by the nominator as "redirect" when the person "suggested" it as a possible outcome, not the outcome s/he would have wanted. Howard the Duck ( talk) 01:58, 29 February 2024 (UTC) reply
When the history is preserved, which it was in my closure, nothing is deleted. That's why a redirect is generally considered to be an ATD.
Feel free to participate. It looks like the obvious del-sorts have been added, hopefully more eyes will join. Star Mississippi 02:18, 29 February 2024 (UTC) reply

AFDs

Hello, Star Mississippi,

I am just burned out on AFDs. We have been losing discussion closers and participants (at least decent ones) for months now. I took a break two weeks ago and came back to see the absence of some regulars I had grown to rely on. I don't see any consensus on many discussions so I relist them, then I get flak for relisting discussions that an editor wants to be closed according to their point-of-view. And sometimes there is no further participation even after a couple of relistings. I think instead of nominating bad articles, a lot of marginal articles are getting nominated these days and there is just no conclusive discussion on what should happen with them.

About a year ago, I went to the Village Pump asking for more editors to participate in deletion discussions but I couldn't tell whether or not anyone responded to that plea. I'm out of ideas and what bothers me more than inconclusive discussions is that it often comes down to one or two editors determining whether or not an article is deleted and no handful of editors should have that much influence on the project's content. I'm thankful for help clearing out bad articles from the project but I see what I think are decent articles get deleted because they only had one or two sources, not three.

Any ideas on how to get more editors and admins to help out? I know that every single area of the project is short-staffed these days but this is an area that I spend time on so it's what is on my mind, at least tonight. Thanks for letting me vent. Liz Read! Talk! 04:26, 29 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Sorry for the delay in responding @ Liz.
I think I caught part of your hiatus when I was surprised to find unclosed discussions when I checked the log. There haven't been enough admins for years, but I do think AIV and UAA are also seeing backlogs as well, as you noted. During this window of time when we don't have enough participation, I really think AfD should not be used for uncontroversial mergers as it doesn't really get more eyes and doesn't help. I've been at DRV recently for not being a magician, but I also understand the users' frustration on both that and because N/C just kicks the can down the road.
Going to try and think on this for more ideas, but in the mean time I absolutely second this. Star Mississippi 16:38, 1 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Sorry if my message was more emotionally charged than typical talk page messages are on Wikipedia. I sometimes spend an inordinate amount of time working on the project and that, combined with not getting a full night's sleep, can result in viewing a situation as more dire than it seems in the morning.
I've just been concerned that thoughtful participation in AFDs requires more effort than many editors want to go to so our pool of editors who regularly participate in deletion discussions in a productive way has dwindled over the past year. And I can understand the frustration of spending a couple of hours looking for sources and then finding the article is deleted any way. I'm less sure of why admins circulate out of helping with AFD closures except it's no fun being summoned to Deletion review or having editors who are angry about an outcome come to your User talk page. But I can think of at least 8 admins I regularly encountered on the daily AFD log page that have moved on to other activities that they find more pleasant or fulfiling.
While I'm so grateful for their time, I do worry that the editors who are very savvy about AFD participation have an outsized influence on what articles are kept or deleted. And I don't think that a lot of editors realize that deletion decisions can come down to one or two editors. Of course, the same could be said of CSD and PROD tagging but it's more obvious at AFD. Any way, I'll stop here because I've left a lot of content here. Of course I could have emailed these remarks but I was hoping that other editors might see this and offer opinions on how to address the editor/admin shortage. Thanks and I hope you have a nice weekend....we have a prediction of more snow here overnight. Liz Read! Talk! 04:45, 2 March 2024 (UTC) reply
I am quite new to AfD and wanted to help out with relistings and closings as NAC, with some occasional !votes too. I kinda like the clerking jobs, but like Liz pointed out, some of my closings got challenged (mostly bc I might have misread the consensus) and that gave me a little setback. Hence I took a little break from AfD but I can see that there is very little participation.
On the top of my head, I can suggest an idea. I'm not sure how much it will work, but we can get Signpost to do a feature on AfD, with some statistics and stuff, plus a paragraph on the demand for more participation from sysops and editors alike. Maybe that can alert the community about this. I used to write for Signpost, but it's been years I went down that road now. So we can try that out prolly.
I'm going for a WikiBreak due to an IRL situation for a couple of weeks where I might not get access to internet. I'll drop by wheneverI can in between. Thanks and happy editing. The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 05:07, 2 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Take care of yourself first & foremost @ The Herald. Not doing that is what leads to editor burnout, which is a part of why we're here. Also, a 20+ year project and people moving into other life phases where they're not as active. For me, I came back during COVID lockdown after years of declining time and interest in the project.
@ Liz I think the other part of it is we've lost some powerhouses in the last few years: Possibly, Nosbagbear,Eagleash, Anthony Appleyard, DGG, Vami_V recently. It's a lot of regular participation that is just gone. Especially with history merges. I wonder whether we're back filling. I also feel like project maturity is a part of it. Similar to their being a much smaller percentage of articles needing creating, besides the old backlogs that @ Boleyn is frequently clearing (with much appreciation), there aren't a ton of articles that must now go to AfD. Folks persist in bringing them and the huge pile of nominations is just insurmountable. Another issue is the drive by participation & sniping on both sides. There are several editors whose participation is not healthy (to them, nor to the project), but topic banning isn't going to help anything either. Vent away any time here. Star Mississippi 15:55, 2 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Also pinging @ OwenX who I E/Ced with a few times while trying to tackle today's log for their thoughts. Star Mississippi 15:08, 2 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Thank you for the ping, Star Mississippi!
Liz, please don't give up! You are one of the most dependable AfD closers, and the gentle nudges toward consensus in your relistings are exactly what we need. I, too, am not happy to see a decline in participation by great AfD regulars like TimothyBlue and XOR'easter. I hope this is temporary. For my part, I'll try to do more, both in terms of AfD participation and closing, especially the heated, contentious ones that no one wants to touch. I don't mind being raked over the coals at DRV every once in a while, although I do appreciate the support I get there from you and from Star Mississippi--or the constructive criticism, as the case warrants. I check the backlog daily, and try to close at least one tricky AfD a day, in addition to a handful of straightforward ones. I don't know if I'll be able to keep up this pace in April through June, which is the busiest time for me, work-wise, but I'll try do my part. I am in no position to preach, having just come back from a long wiki-hiatus myself (it was nice to be greeted back by you!). Don't push yourself to the point of burnout. Lighten your load until things feel more balanced. None of this is worth losing sleep over. Owen× 17:14, 2 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Liz, for what it's worth, I've regularly gone to check the unclosed AfD list these past few weeks and only rarely found any discussions left for me to close. So at least from my perspective as a fellow closer, we seem to have a handle on the closure side of the question. signed, Rosguill talk 20:16, 2 March 2024 (UTC) reply
I just burned out a bit, but I will be back; I try and help on the difficult ones, especially BLPs. NPP and AfD both give me the feeling the water is cresting the dam, but I have no solutions. @ Liz: thank you for all you do at AfD.  //  Timothy ::  talk  21:35, 3 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Good to hear you'll be back, TimothyBlue! Your well-reasoned views in AfDs usually cut through the clutter. Owen× 22:44, 3 March 2024 (UTC) reply
I tried to dip my toe in NPP and even as a decently-tenured AfC reviewer, I am lost there. Happy to help if there's a good tutorial @ TimothyBlue
@ OwenX I always appreciate your insight as well. There are some really messy ones lately. Star Mississippi 03:00, 4 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • If there's a genuine need to close AfDs, I would possibly consider nominating to be an admin at some point. I've just figured there's more of a need for participants than closers, and I'm trying to spend less time on here at the moment, but I'd be happy to help. SportingFlyer T· C 11:22, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    I agree, there is more of a need for participants familiar with our P&G than there is for closers. And your participation in AfDs, SportingFlyer, has been extremely helpful to me, as I'm sure it has been to other closers. Owen× 15:03, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    I think there's both. Closures have been challenging and challenged (and I have no issue with folks challenging them, it's well within their right and other than the obvious trolls and other bad actors all I've dealt with have merit even if I endorse my close). Look at the DRVs we've been in this week, both the current one and Lion of Oz. Especially the current one, the DRV is better attended than the discussion. Seconding @ OwenX that I so appreciate your input @ SportingFlyer because you make your case, it's not just a !vote. Lion is a mess and part of why I don't fault @ GSS (courtesy ping due to mention) for their close is it had lingered so why not give it a go. I said similar to @ The Herald above whose input I also value. Thanks both Star Mississippi 16:01, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply
DRVs are very essential to keep in check for some bad closes and I'm looking at the silver lining of the current DRV. Like Star Mississippi said, it had higher turnout than the nom itself, which was surprising and makes me happy. Now with those two redirect !votes, it'd have been an easy consensus and a close. But yeah, I agree that we need more participants like SF and Owen, someone with clear cut knowledge of P&Gs. Closers aren't the dire need at hand now, but participants are. To be frank, I am learning more and more about P&Gs right now by closing and I am only selectively !voting in obvious outcome discussions. But once I am confident enough, I'll start participanting more in the discussions actively. In the meanwhile, we can think about the Signpost feature I talked about earlier. Thanks and happy editing. The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 16:29, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply
@ The Herald: If it helps, here's my AfD procedure - it's not really formal, but it's how I approach things. 1. Look at the actual article. Are there sources? Are there any sources which look like they clearly pass WP:GNG? Does it look like it obviously violates WP:NOT? Is the topic about a person or about a "thing"? If it's about a person or about a business, I'm immediately more cautious in terms of !keeping, especially if there's any promotional element. 2. Perform a source search if there aren't good sources in the article and WP:NOT isn't flagged. If the topic's not from an English speaking country, I'll first look to see if there are other wikipedias with the same article and check the sourcing there - it's usually not as good, but often can be very helpful. Then I'll perform a web search using appropriate search engines, though I feel like these have gotten a lot worse even in the past couple years. Google Books and Google Scholar have been the most helpful recently, along with DuckDuckGo's ability to search by country. If I still strike out, and I feel like there's a good chance it's still notable, I'll find local or historical newspapers and perform a search there. If by this point there's nothing, I'm a clear !delete. Most of the time there are only a few sources of varying quality and at that point it's a WP:COMMONSENSE judgment decision. SportingFlyer T· C 16:40, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply
THIS...comments like these are the reason why I believe we are immortal and Wikipedia community will never die. Thanks from the bottom of my heart for going this extra mile for the practical approach to AfD. You have my !support in your RfA already. Thanks again. Imma star this message, SF. The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 16:50, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Seconding @ SportingFlyer's great advice, I often see @ HighKing drop useful guidelines in organizational related discussions because of the depth required in N:ORG/CORP. A company gets coverage for existing, but it's not helpful if it's not of the depth needed. See also event listings at schools and cultural organizations. @ The Herald you should feel the love. You've done solid work. Being taken to DRV is almost a right of passage and those closes aren't wrong so much as complex. Essentially the same thing I just said re: GSS' close at Lion Star Mississippi 17:48, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply
DRVs though are relatively rare and attract a specific group of regulars. There are a lot of AfDs, and I'm at the point now where I'm only going to participate in AfD areas where I feel comfortable !voting. I think it's good DRVs receive a lot of participation as it's the appeals process. SportingFlyer T· C 16:30, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Jumping in here, but I am in the same general place as you, and I am more likely to weigh in when there is some dispute in the issues I follow or when there is a more obvious answer. - Enos733 ( talk) 21:07, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Related issue

I wish we had something between PROD and AfD. Because of the rules of PROD and soft deletion, we have AfDs like Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Catabasis Pharmaceuticals. (I'm going to drop Liz a courtesy note since she doesn't do pings). She did what she had to do since it's ineligible for soft deletion, but no one is actually arguing for retention because no one cares about a random, non notable company. Enter my IAR close because another relist was pointless. AfD reform is hot topic and rightfully so, but we really need meaningful deletion reform because I'm not sure the process works for a 20 year old project. Star Mississippi 18:23, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply

It's almost impossible to change policy these days. People are treating our guidelines as if they were Scripture, not to be messed with by mortals. "The system works just fine" or "This is a solution looking for a problem" are the most likely responses you'll get for a proposal to change things. The last meaningful guideline change we got was NSPORTS2022, which doesn't really add much to the sacred GNG. I doubt the current proposals about RfA will end with much more than just, "We should really be more civilized on RfAs", but I hope I'm wrong.
As for AfDs, yes, I see your point about these marginal situations. I doubt we'd get policy changed, but if we reach a consensus among us here on how to handle those, and support such closes on DRV, it will in time become a de facto standard practice. I don't like invoking IAR, but if an unsourced article has been tagged for a while, and the AfD receives no legitimate argument to keep, nor a sensible ATD, it is within the discretion of the closing admin to delete even if a prior PROD was declined. This option is even described as acceptable in WP:NOQUORUM, so we're not really introducing anything radical here. Such deletions are rarely overturned at DRV. Owen× 18:58, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Ah, now I will have to admit I was lurking here, because yes: I won't use PROD now because of this issue (and well done and thank you for the IAR close). I PRODed something some time back and, as always seems to happen, someone removed the PROD with just an edsum saying this should go to AfD so then Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gwaun Troed-rhiw-seiri a Llyn Mynydd-gorddu sat for weeks at AfD with not a single !vote - not even from the PROD remover - and in the end we kept an article that was not about one place but two - neither of which can be found on a map, although both apparently have some 🌷 in common. Just removing the ineligibility for soft deletion would seem to be a small but valuable change. Sirfurboy🏄 ( talk) 21:59, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply
NSPORTS2022 was wonderful but also a nightmare. For about six months after I nearly refused to close the sports discussions because it felt like the close was being relitigated in each discussion. I think (hope) it has settled since although some still seem oddly contentious. GEOLAND seems to be on the cusp of... something, although I'm not sure exactly what.
@ Sirfurboy I skip PROD entirely for certain things: schools, athletes, places. I think to both your & @ OwenX's points we could end up with a middle ground somehow because there has to be sanity. There was another Welsh "place" recently. I can't remember if I closed it or not but it was another "no one cares but process says". Thanks both! Star Mississippi 00:40, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Yes, I generally avoid closing GEOLAND AfDs. Maybe we need NSPORTS and GEOLAND specialist closers. Owen× 00:46, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Uptown Scottsbluff

Can you please draft Uptown Scottsbluff into my userspace? I feel the AFD was invalid and would like to improve it. Ten Pound Hammer( What did I screw up now?) 21:54, 29 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Here you go: User:TenPoundHammer/Uptown Scottsbluff
Sourcing will need to be substantially improved before you restore it or it will be back at AfD even if not a G4. Star Mississippi 15:31, 1 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Koumac Airport

Any chance for a relist of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Koumac Airport? It still seems like an unresolved debate to me, given that of the three keep !votes, one is WP:PERX and another is just WP:ITSNOTABLE. Pilaz ( talk) 16:18, 3 March 2024 (UTC) reply

I don't see it closing any other way, but happy to avoid bureaucracy and have done so. Sorry for the delay! Star Mississippi 01:37, 4 March 2024 (UTC) reply
No problem, thanks for relisting regardless! Pilaz ( talk) 21:35, 4 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Thank you for the close

I appreciate you putting that thread out of its misery. I do have a mild complaint slash request about the closing statement. I may send you email about it in a little while after I give this some more thought. If I do I would not be expecting an email back, just either a rewording or not as seems best to you. It's a "just saying" kind of thing with a slight tinge of privacy concerns

But seriously, thanks again Elinruby ( talk) 19:00, 3 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Happy to reconsider if needed. I'll keep an eye out @ Elinruby, but if you wouldn't mind dropping a note here when you've sent it. Sometimes the notices here don't make it in p ings. Star Mississippi 02:14, 4 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Ok. I praised you in a section on my talk page that someone startec based (I think) on that closing statement. That may shed some light on what I am talking about. People don't click the freaking links. Thank you for being someone who does.

i will drop you a note, sure. trying to come up with a better idea first. Elinruby ( talk) 02:23, 4 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Incoming email Elinruby ( talk) 12:22, 4 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Just noting I've seen it, will respond tomorrow when I have time/brain cells to give it the attention it deserves. Star Mississippi 03:15, 5 March 2024 (UTC) reply
ok. Haven't seen one but I am not on the device that gets email. At your leisure if you haven't responded yet. I said what I needed to and am content. Comment below is regardless of your response Elinruby ( talk) 05:27, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Thank you! I'm always happy to help. And really, reading diffs shouldn't be a high ask.
The lack of response is my fault. I ended up working away from my primary device. I'll be in touch soon or at the weekend I promise. Apologies Star Mississippi 15:00, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Nono I really meant it when I said that I said what I said and get to it when you can. No rush. Back to doing regular stuff with sane people Elinruby ( talk) 16:24, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Egov.Press

Heads up I just declined a draft for Draft:ALASH online which is the alternative website address for Egov.Press I think. Theroadislong ( talk) 19:29, 3 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Le sigh. Thanks!
I updated the SPI. I have a feeling we're going to play whack a promotion for some time. I'm not going to reject the draft as I'm too Involved, but someone should. Star Mississippi 01:41, 4 March 2024 (UTC) reply

To go with the praise elsewhere

The Admin's Barnstar
for actually clicking on the diffs Elinruby ( talk) 05:24, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Do you think this is a problem?

Hi Star Mississippi, you probably remember me from joining the ANI report you filed against another user, which led to sanctions. Recently, at Talk:La Rambla Building (and even at another user's talk page) that same user appears to be badgering other editors to try to push for the implementation of a challenged edit request. By now, there's a total of 5 of us involved over there, do you think this is a problem? Any advice or assistance in dealing with the situation would be much appreciated. Left guide ( talk) 05:37, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Apologies for the delay and thanks for flagging. I will go look and comment there if I can help.
That editor is unfortunately a long term challenge of unwillingness to comply with expected standards as I assume you well know. Star Mississippi 15:11, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
No worries about the delay, anything helps, thanks for your input there. And yeah I agree with the last sentence; this is certainly an editor to keep an eye on because it seems that if it's not one thing it's another, so the more eyes the better. He'll try practically any trick in the book to get his way; for what it's worth, some of his self-disclosed ancestors he made articles about were high-ranking politicians (and in my opinion are the few that might actually be notable for Wikipedia) so maybe it's in his blood. The overall pattern looks rooted in WP:OWNERSHIP on these specific sets of articles, which you seemed to allude to in the ANI. The article-space block has made things noticeably calmer (though not entirely peaceful as evidenced by this incident) for the rest of us to have more time and space to do other things on Wikipedia and real life, definitely a good call on your part to make that proposal. Hopefully the behavior will improve and these recurring time-sinks will go away soon. Anyways, that's probably enough for now, thanks again for assisting. Left guide ( talk) 22:57, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
*sigh*… Left guide ( talk) 02:24, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply
I do not have the on wiki time for another AN/I this week, but I very much see one coming. Honestly not sure if this is sheer stubborn or CIR (with a side of PAID) cc @ Netherzone Star Mississippi 02:38, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Understandable; gaining traction at that last ANI was a time-consuming and exhausting experience. Honestly, one legitimate concern I have by this point is that the editor victimized in the initial incident may have felt driven off the project by this behavior; they were a near-daily prolific good-faith editor nowhere to be found now. That was a very jarring incident. I know if I was in their shoes, I wouldn't feel welcome on this site at all. Left guide ( talk) 03:48, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply
That editor has some complex history of jumping in to the deep end before they're fully aware of the steps needed (see their tenure clerking ANI) despite meaning well. I'm not sure it was Gregg's behavior so much as waiting for the eyes on them to lessen. I think/hope they'll be back Star Mississippi 10:52, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Ah, that makes sense, thanks for the additional insight. I still believe that the badgering responses were far out-of-proportion to the mistakes made, especially given that the self-reverts were requested by another editor. And I hope they'll be back too; I have much respect for those volunteers willing to take on large amounts of edit requests due to the backlogs, especially the COI ones. I've looked at edit requests, and paid company editors have a tendency to post long walls of text that I don't have the patience to sift through. Left guide ( talk) 12:00, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply
I think the newer editor is probably just taking a wikibreak - their user page has a hatnote that they are in school. I don't know if they are based in the U.S. but Spring break generally is held sometime between March 11 and April 1, and they may have had mid-term exams or papers due. I think they will be back, I certainly hope so!
Re: the other editor, I definitely think CIR is at play along with IDHT, and GAMING.. I also think that the "stubbornness" has to do with a sense of pride - in local community and in family. Those certainly can be positive attributes for a person to have, but are displaced here as a form of SOAPBOXING with a "side" of COI. It's exhausting and a long term time sink. Sigh... Netherzone ( talk) 13:55, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Consideration to permanently block these IPs? At my last wit here

Hi Star Mississippi. For nearly 12 (!!!) years now, 98.186.55.18 has created hundreds of article & template drafts that were rejected per WP:TOOSOON and WP:CRYSTAL. He was warned God knows how many times, blocked many times, and was extremely hostile when banned. He's an absolute pain to the sports WikiProjects (both college and professional) and at this point there is 0% chance he'll ever change. This editor exhibits no required competence, and is an objective detriment to Wikipedia. He's evaded blocks by using different IPs (e.g. 98.186.54.177 // 70.179.216.206 // 68.103.78.155 // 68.102.39.189 // 2600:8803:7A00:19:F9E8:259A:179F:F5C1 // 68.102.40.154 // 68.102.61.195 ... I could link even more).

In May 2022 I alerted you to his inadequate competence back then, and two years later we're still dealing with the same shit. It's never going away; I'm personally fed up.

You've been a great administrator for nearly 16 years. You may need to defer the request I'm about to make to another admin per being previously WP:INVOLVED with this IP, but: Can you please permanently block any or all of the aforementioned IPs? SportsGuy789 ( talk) 07:08, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply

@ SportsGuy789 Well, there's no way to block an IP address permanently, considering that there might be other people also using it. Definitely possible to block normal accounts even if someone else uses it, but certainly not IPs. NoobThreePointOh ( talk) 14:48, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Then what's the solution? Can't there be like a year-long block at least? SportsGuy789 ( talk) 15:32, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Yeah. Year-long blocks are certainly possible. NoobThreePointOh ( talk) 15:46, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Can we do that on 98.186.55.18 then? SportsGuy789 ( talk) 15:51, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Hi @ SportsGuy789. @ NoobThreePointOh is correct in that we can't indef IPs because they change. I'm not declining to act because of Involvement, but rather range blocks are really beyond my familiarity if they're block evading. For now I've reblocked 98. You may need to take it to AN/I unless I have a TPS who has better ideas on the range block side. Star Mississippi 16:01, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Thank you for the help with a block on 98 to start. A lot of those other IPs are old and haven't been disruptively editing for years, so I'm cautiously optimistic he won't be using those again. SportsGuy789 ( talk) 16:28, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
I don't know how you've dealt with this. I trusted your report, of course, and vaguely remembered but as soon as they got low-key abusive again I was like oh yeah, that one. Yuck. Star Mississippi 18:48, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
@ Star Mississippi Eeesh. It can get pretty ugly at times. Let's just hope that they don't strike again, because the damage that accumulates might become even worse. NoobThreePointOh ( talk) 21:52, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Museumand

Thanks, but did you mean to type "disagree" where you typed "agree"? Pam D 16:35, 9 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Indeed. Fixed. Thanks so much for flagging. Star Mississippi 16:48, 9 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Refund to draftspace?

Hi Star Mississippi, can I take you up on the refund offer at WP:Articles for deletion/Hira Mosque? (I'd assume to Draft:Hira Mosque) The sources I supplied at AfD (an academic journal and a foreign language source) would take some time and effort for me to comb through, so I'd venture to say the notability is inconclusive, but it's a topic I have some personal interest in. I might merge some info into other articles either way (I appreciate the suggestions in your closing statement). Also, is there a ja.wiki article? I can't remember, I should've noted that before deletion, sorry about that. Thanks. Left guide ( talk) 23:24, 9 March 2024 (UTC) reply

You're all set. Per Wikidata, there's ja:行徳モスク and a few other languages, alas none of which I read.
Thanks for reading my close as intended as I definitely think there's a home for this information, there just wasn't the sourcing to necessarily merit a standalone. Let me know if you need anything else on this. Happy to help. Star Mississippi 23:46, 9 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Thank you so much! :) Left guide ( talk) 23:49, 9 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Hello, Star Mississippi,

I hope you are having a good weekend. While you closed this AFD discussion as Merge, because you mention two separate articles, the article under discussion doesn't have a Merge tag on it and the Merge target articles are missing it, too. I don't work with Merges so I rely on XFDcloser to do this tagging and so I don't know the correct template to use. But I think once the article is tagged, the article will appear in the correct categories so editors can see that it needs to be merged.

Also, thanks for letting me know about the discussion (above). It's interesting reading. Liz Read! Talk! 02:29, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi! Yes, I did that as a custom because I learned (from you?) that merger close with A or B breaks either the script or creates a discussion page for a non existent article A or B. I can manually tag it, but without a target, I think even {{merge-to}} will fail. I'm about to log off for the evening, but will look into it tomorrow unless you have sorted it out. I don't think there's an easy answer. And no worries, thought you'd enjoy where your question/comment went. Star Mississippi 02:51, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply
oh never mind, @ Stephen sorted it out for both us. Star Mississippi 02:52, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply
God bless talk page stalkers! It seems like there is always someone who knows how to fix a problem. You definitely didn't learn it from me, I don't know how to close an AFD discussion with a decision to Merge to more than one article. I think I have history merged 4 or 5 times and have not manually merged any articles so I'm not familiar with the Merge templates. Liz Read! Talk! 06:38, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Indeed!
I have some vague recollection of in your G8 patrolling you had to delete one that me/the script created such as Talk:Topic A or B. I hate history merges! I've tried but usually end up b0rking. Star Mississippi 10:44, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply
I know that it is technically possible to "unmerge" articles if a mistake has been made but I wouldn't know how to do it. So, I've only done clear cut cases where it is suitable, generally when an editor has created a new category that is identical to one that has existed for a long time. Liz Read! Talk! 01:31, 12 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Can you help me make sense of this?

I'm sure you know by now that the discussion at WP:Articles for deletion/Techspressionism has become a mess in more ways than one. I've been trying to help organize and keep track of it, but I'm unable to wrap my head around this edit. My best guess is that part of MarioCCult's original comment is now erroneously embedded into Scribe1791's comment, but I'm not 100% sure. If I had caught it at the time, I would've just reverted. Courtesy ping Netherzone also. Left guide ( talk) 03:50, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi! I think @ Netherzone has fixed it while I was offline. It's super confusing, as I think AfD is for newer editors. Social post aside, I think they're contributing in good faith, they just don't know what's required. I'm glad Scribe allowed me to close up their comment as I think some folks read it as "he's done, let me add my response". Star Mississippi 02:03, 14 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Didn't fix it because I can't unravel the scramble. Netherzone ( talk) 02:42, 14 March 2024 (UTC) reply
It seems like User:YordleSquire's short comment may have been plopped in the middle of someone else's longer comment (?). I may be wrong about this, because SPAs comments going in odd places. Thanks for clerking to the both of you. Netherzone ( talk) 16:08, 14 March 2024 (UTC) reply
I'm mostly offline through Sunday, apologies. Thanks @ Netherzone for moving the Arabic? !vote over as well. Star Mississippi 23:04, 14 March 2024 (UTC) reply
It looks like YordleSquire's short comment is in between two separate comments made at separate times by Scribe1791, so I don't think that's the problem. The user with the Arabic !vote actually found their way to the main AfD page and posted it there themselves. Thanks to both of you for assisting as well. Enjoy your time away Star Mississippi, I'll continue keeping an eye on that AfD as my time allows. Left guide ( talk) 23:19, 14 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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Be on the lookout

A relatively inexperienced editor innocuously accepted his AfC submission cited only to four primary source government publications and an unreliable source; likely would've been declined by an experienced reviewer. And now it looks like he's trying to sneak his next one into mainspace by WP:CANVASSING that same editor. Told you he'll try practically any trick in the bookLeft guide ( talk) 01:32, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Le sigh. I need a magic wand. Thanks for flagging @ Left guide Star Mississippi 02:26, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply
I don't want to waste effort diff digging but Greg has been warned previously about canvassing trying to disrupt an AfD nomination made on one of his articles. He recruited people who he felt would vote the way he wants and specifically wrote comment asking them to vote keep. Graywalls ( talk) 09:16, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply
He has been warned for everything unfortunately it doesn't change his behavior. Star Mississippi 14:36, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply
TBAN I suggested might be effective. No participation on Henderson family related, broadly construed. No participation on Monterey County, California related (including Carmel-by-the-Sea which is within) and perhaps no San Jose. Graywalls ( talk) 16:27, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply
@ S0091 has warned them again.
@ Graywalls I agree, but to the same extent he's not taking on your/@ Netherzone's feedback about stronger drafts I'm not sure he'll abide by it. Star Mississippi 18:46, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply
I thought it better to post something on his talk page for tracking. However, in his and the reviewer's defense regarding Messina Orchard, I have always thought places listed at NRHP were essentially automatically notable because they generally will pass AfD. On the flip side things like Draft:Mary L. Hamlin...eh..."nope" is the only word and the fact he kept resubmitting and pushing, adding frankly shitty sources was time wasting for all involved and appears to his track record. S0091 ( talk) 18:57, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Eh, I wouldn't go so far as to say automatically. Like virtually every subject notability guideline, WP:GEOFEAT says presumed which isn't the same as guaranteed. IMO, there should still be at least some effort to show real independent secondary GNG-compliant coverage, which doesn't appear to be the case for Messina Orchard. But I agree that the Mary L. Hamlin saga was something else, doesn't seem to take "no" for an answer. Left guide ( talk) 21:19, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply
@ Left guide:, The form cites quite a few good sources, usually. Although, the article shouldn't look like a mirror of the form. An article could meet notability yet be two sentences long. Superfluous contents can always be pulled out. Graywalls ( talk) 02:32, 22 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Must've been WP:Articles for deletion/Carmel Valley Historical Society; even had the audacity to bold the word keep in the requestsLeft guide ( talk) 21:19, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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AFDLand

Hello, Star Mississippi,

Did you drink a pot of coffee tonight? You sure closed a lot of AFD discussions. Wikipedia could use your help every day (or night). Liz Read! Talk! 05:14, 24 March 2024 (UTC) reply

You're most welcome. I caught the log at a good moment and I hope it makes up for when I have and am about to be offline again. The volume you process @ Liz amazes me. And I know I see only a small percentage of them. Star Mississippi 20:49, 24 March 2024 (UTC) reply

As the last blocking admin

As the blocking admin for the user, i thought to bring it to your notice that another user most definitely an UPE who has a long history of creating non-notable articles has recreated this article which you salted under another name here. Let me know if any action can be taken against the new author. Jamiebuba ( talk) 23:02, 24 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Thank you for flagging @ Jamiebuba. I've blocked the "new" account. I haven't actioned the G4 as there are so many versions and my on wiki time is limited to evaluate, although I have no doubt it's a bad faith creation. Star Mississippi 01:13, 25 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Great, thanks for your time. I appreciate. Jamiebuba ( talk) 06:24, 25 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Any time, and it looks like @ Liz handled the G4 so we should be all set. Star Mississippi 12:52, 25 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Yeah so i noticed! I have a feeling they may return. Jamiebuba ( talk) 16:24, 25 March 2024 (UTC) reply

User Doncram

I just noticed a number of 2024 User talk:Doncram talk page messages from you. Don't know if you're aware of it, but Dncram died July 9, 2023. Please see Wikipedia:Deceased Wikipedians/2023. — Maile ( talk) 23:34, 24 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi! Yes, thanks We've been using his Talk as a scratch pad to publish the drafts he left behind, and in some cases give him AfC credit. Do you think that should take place elsewhere? Star Mississippi 01:05, 25 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Ah, I see. I think you are doing it the best way. Ever since I read of Doncram's death, I've been wondering who will fill his shoes in publishing the newer listings. He was always just there, taking care of the new listings. — Maile ( talk) 01:16, 25 March 2024 (UTC) reply
User_talk:Doncram#List_of_drafts has his WIPs that we know of.
If there are others, or others you think he would have worked on,feel free to add. My interests interacted with his so I've picked up some but I know we're missing others. Star Mississippi 01:22, 25 March 2024 (UTC) reply
In my case, I knew what was out there because he had already listed them. That's what I'm talking about. Who is going to keep those new listings up to date? — Maile ( talk) 01:46, 25 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Not sure, but happy to try and dig into it. I'm going to be offline much of this week but will join when back. Star Mississippi 02:26, 25 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Priyanka Choudhary

Hello Ma'am/Sir. Do you remember me? We have met several times in DRV for the review of articles of ITV actors. Sir/Ma'am we recently submitted a DRV of the actress Priyanka Choudhary and the outcome was that the previous deletions were endorsed. Sir/Ma'am what can we do so that we get a fair chance to create an article of Priyanka Choudhary in Wikipedia? We tried all possible means by maintaining WP:CIVILity and WP:good faith. We do not want to repeat the mistakes which her earlier fans made but we do wish for a fair chance. 117.209.242.154 ( talk) 06:04, 25 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi! The consensus here Wikipedia:Deletion_review#Priyanka_Choudhary_(closed) is that Choudhary is not yet notable. Thank you for being civil and assuming good faith, but that doesn't overcome the issues raised with respect to WP:NACTOR and the sourcing required to pass it, which Choudhary currently lacks. It's challenging as a fan when you believe someone sh ould have coverage. In closing @ S_Marshall offered an option of another project. Did you think about that?
Alternatively, you can continue working on the draft and add new sourcing and consider submitting it no sooner than next year unless sourcing changes significantly. Star Mississippi 12:50, 25 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Please provide my page

I worked hard on it and you’ve not advised of why it was legal to remove it. Thank you. 75.105.37.98 ( talk) 19:47, 26 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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Civic Caucus Wikipedia

Hi, thanks for the suggestions. I removed the name of individuals who were/are part of the interview group as well I removed the topics. Any other suggestions are appreciated as I invested a lot of work and revisions over the past couple of months based on editor feedback and would love to have it finished very soon. Luka At The Civic Caucus ( talk) 02:10, 8 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi @ Luka At The Civic Caucus
I appreciate the work you've done, but there's still a lot more to be done. The information you've included is more a fit for the Caucus' own site. To start I would remove everything that is cited to your own website. Yes, that will make for a very short article, but that's OK. What will be accepted here is only what others have said, WP:ORG and WP:SIRS are a good start to help you with the kind of sourcing you should be looking for. You can provide the three best sources and start from there. 47 that you currently have is reference bombing without adding to quality. Let me know if that's helpful? Star Mississippi 02:26, 8 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Ok just fixed it and all sources listed are now independent articles that were written about the Civic Caucus. I hope the draft works better now in its new format. Luka At The Civic Caucus ( talk) 04:46, 8 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Much better @ Luka At The Civic Caucus. I added a few section headers. You can see how to add others if you choose. (Those are not required for acceptance) Star Mississippi 14:47, 8 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Great thank you! Any other suggestions are more than welcome while I wait for it to be reviewed. Luka At The Civic Caucus ( talk) 01:08, 9 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Hey quick question do you know how one can be faster reviewed? I added the tags but still no reviewers have taken a look. Thanks again for the help. Luka At The Civic Caucus ( talk) 23:05, 23 February 2024 (UTC) reply
From the notice, This may take 7 weeks or more, since drafts are reviewed in no specific order. There are 1,859 pending submissions waiting for review.
What is your time concern? You're welcome to continue editing it while waiting for review. Star Mississippi 02:46, 24 February 2024 (UTC) reply
I was just wondering if you had any other tips like assigning a tag. Thank you Luka At The Civic Caucus ( talk) 03:24, 24 February 2024 (UTC) reply
I realize your draft is important to you, but all are equal priority to the reviewers. I would spend some time fixing it while you're waiting as it's unlikely to be accepted as it currently stands. While OSE is bad, please have a look at the format of other articles. Star Mississippi 14:45, 24 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Okay I will continue to edit Luka At The Civic Caucus ( talk) 19:42, 24 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Great. Happy to answer other questions you have. In the mean time, another editor has worked on the formatting issues. Star Mississippi 22:02, 24 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Great thank you Luka At The Civic Caucus ( talk) 23:25, 24 February 2024 (UTC) reply

FJNovoa

User:Fjnovoa/Fidel Antonio Novoa Meléndez

I have eliminated all citations coming from FamilySearch as requested, I would like to resubmit for review my article. Thank you in advance for your consideration to this matter. Fjnovoa ( talk) 16:25, 29 January 2024 (UTC) reply

User:Fjnovoa/Fidel Antonio Novoa Meléndez

I have added this paragraph, so the subject can pass WP:NPOL

"Dr. Novoa Meléndez legacy belongs to a family that has earned local political notoriety in public service in El Salvador in the 19th and 20th centuries: his father Adolfo Novoa Méndez was Trustee of the City Counsil (Síndico in Spanish) of Sensuntepeque Municipality in 1880, his son Fidel Antonio Novoa Fuentes was a congressman in 1929, both his grandsons Fidel Antonio Novoa Arciniegas was the Mayor of San Salvador in 1964 and Ricardo Armando Novoa Arciniegas was a Judge of the Supreme Court of Justice of El Salvador in 1989."

I have added secondary citation too.

Kindly, could you please reinstate my article. I have put long hours into my project. Fjnovoa ( talk) 20:43, 29 January 2024 (UTC) reply

    • I have responded on your talk page Fjnovoa and have removed my rejection. I do think you need to leave these articles to someone unconnected as the tone remains inappropriate for an encyclopedic project, but will leave it for someone else's review. If this series of articles is ultimately accepted, you should use WP:Edit requests and not edit them directly. Star Mississippi 01:46, 30 January 2024 (UTC) reply

User:Fjnovoa/Fidel Antonio Novoa Meléndez

Hello Star Mississippi,

On my article referenced above, I got rid of all the citations from FamilySearch. I have deleted paragraphs to make more summarized and shorter. I am using citation 1, 10 and 12 as secondary sources. Would you kindly review it and advise any changes for improvement and gaining approval?

Thank you in advance,

@ Fjnovoa Fjnovoa ( talk) 01:54, 2 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi! I think you've done well to improve the sourcing. If you click the blue resubmit button, a reviewer will be along to assess the changes. Let me know if can help in the mean time. Star Mississippi 15:00, 2 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Draft:Fidel Antonio Novoa Fuentes

Hello Star Mississippi, For the above referenced article I have added secondary sources, [8] which is another Wikipedia article. Your review, advise and corrections would be highly appreciated.

@ Fjnovoa Fjnovoa ( talk) 17:37, 2 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi @ Fjnovoa
Unfortunately other wikis and collaboratively edited projects are not viable sources as they're WP:UGC which is not reliable. However you're making good progress, so please keep at it and someone will review. Star Mississippi 17:47, 2 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Thank you, I have now updated citation secondary sources, [8] Fjnovoa ( talk) 22:18, 2 February 2024 (UTC) reply
@ Pppery, @ Theroadislong: I'm not sure I'm following all the page moves. The author and I have been discussing the articles here as well as on their talk. Let me know if anything is needed? Star Mississippi 23:47, 2 February 2024 (UTC) reply

My account has been blocked in the Spanish language.

Hellow StarMississippi,

I am seeking some advice and help please. The articles I have written and submitted for review and approval in English, I was simultaneously translating to Spanish and submitting them too. In the Spanish Wikipedia they were all deleted. As I have learned today, there was an old accusation regarding my user ID from 2013, which I will explain below, in the Spanish language Wikipedia. A comment has been written as if I was attempting to do something with nefarious intent, plagiarizing from another article in the web. But the main issue is that user Taichi has blocked my account, and user Ontzak goes and deletes my requests for review of my blocked account. The later will not give me an explanation why he/she is doing that, and I do not want this blocking to affect my articles nor my user ID in the English language Wikipedia.

Here is my explanation of the misunderstanding, which has been deleted with no explanation an my US ID has a flag that my account is "Special purpose account" (In spanish: Cuenta de propósito particular):

My account has been blocked

{{unblock|reason you should be unblocked}}

I started my articles on www.geocities.com and tried unsuccessfully to copy them to Wikipedia in Spanish back in 2013, since www.geocities.com was closed. I was accused of plagiarism, which makes no sense when I was the author of said proposed articles.

Recently, I restarted my new initiative of submitting my articles for approval. It is not correct that for 10 years I have tried to insert my ancestors. Duly, and in compliance with Wikipedia's policy, I have declared my conflict of interest on my user page. The fact that this contributor may be personally related to the topic or subject of an article does not prevent him from originally writing a neutral professional point of view on a political historical article on the topic or article. More importantly, the contributor, because he may be personally related, has provided a wealth of firsthand data, knows through oral tradition and provides supporting citations, is an authority on research and research for many years on the subject.

Therefore, it can be argued that it is a biographical article (not autobiographical, since the contributor does not contribute about himself), which has a political historical significance; or, on the other hand, a biography of historical political importance that turns out to be contributed by a personal and well-versed person. My articles have been reviewed by academic historians (third parties) who are not personally or professionally related to the contributor or to the topic or subject, analyzing the sources and citations. And in his opinion, although there may be a conflict of interest or a moral hazard, it is a neutral point of view, and duly disclosed on the contributor's user page, as is Wikipedia's policy.

Being blocked and derogatory information about me affects me a lot. My ancestors are remarkable people, and my initiative is only that the truth be published.

Explanatory note: www.geocities.com was part of www.yahoo.com at the beginning of the internet, and when the multinational AT&T bought www.yahoo.com; AT&T was not interested in the web hosting business, and let the website shut down and lose us customers or contributors. My articles existed in the space of www.geocities.com under the web hosting www.novoa.org. Now all my created pages are in the "dark web", and they have malware and viruses when you try to access them. If I wish to migrate my work to Wikipedia in Spanish, it is precisely to avoid losing my investigative work of more than 45 years Fjnovoa ( talk) 22:48, 8 February 2024 (UTC) reply

@ Fjnovoa: ( talk page watcher) Your account is not blocked on English language Wikipedia, and I'm not sure what Star Mississippi could do about your block on Spanish language Wikipedia as he does not edit/is not an admin there. (Actually, Yahoo bought Geocities and ruined it for me.) -- Deepfriedokra ( talk) 00:50, 9 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Thank you for your kind words and response. Fjnovoa ( talk) 01:59, 9 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Thanks @ Deepfriedokra.
@ Fjnovoa in addition to not being an admin there, my Spanish is unfortunately not up to par to make an inquiry on your behalf. If your old website was archived on the Internet Archive you may be able to prove that your content predates the versions and that the ownership of copyright is with you. We call that a Backwards copy but not sure what their policies are there. @ Deepfriedokra do you know of any bilingual editors off hand regardless of whether they're admins there or here? I've worked with @ Fjnovoa here on their suite of articles and while they had some issues getting up to speed with en wiki policies around sourcing, I absolutely believe them to be editing in good faith and would love to help. At worst case, Google translate and I can make a post on their Help Desk. Alternativelt, if you want to make a request here, I'm happy to link to it since I know you're a fluent Spanish speaker. PS: also former Geocities user. RIP them and Tripod Star Mississippi 02:36, 9 February 2024 (UTC) reply
@ Star Mississippi It is so delightful to hear from you, for you bring hope, mentoring and kindness. It been scary and frustrating, at this point I was so concerned that my advances in the en wiki would be affected by their action. There are still 3 of my articles in queue waiting to be reviewed and approved: Draft:Ricardo Armando Novoa Arciniegas, Draft:Joaquín Arciniegas Tavera, and Draft:Constantino Fuentes Parra.
At this point, what is dead in geocities is water under the bridge. I have it all in my head and have made new articles different from those I had there, submitted in en wiki.
@ Deepfriedokra Again, thanks to you too. Wiki is better served having you two around. If you guys ever need a native bilingual person, do not hesitate to call me. Without prejudice of your beliefs, I pray blessings to you guys from above. Fjnovoa ( talk) 05:22, 9 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Very happy to help you at any time @ Fjnovoa. Starting here can be a rough challenge, but you took editors' feedback on board, which is key to a successful editing career here. Blocks are project specific because policies are, and because there were no copyright concerns with your edits there is no risk of you being blocked here. Thanks for flagging your drafts. I'll go have a look to see if I can provide any feedback. Happy to do this at any time. Have a good evening. Star Mississippi 00:07, 10 February 2024 (UTC) reply


Draft:Joaquín Arciniegas Tavera

 – to centralize the discussion for all involved editors Star Mississippi 00:55, 12 February 2024 (UTC) reply
This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Hello @ Star Mississippi Thank you for your comment.

Germán Arciniegas as an example/precedent - like the subject of this articles and above referenced, was approved as ambassador and writer.

I am basing on the Meridian-Webster definition #2: denotes the deputy appointed officer at an embassy.

I quote next from such reference

consul

noun con·​sul ˈkän(t)-səl

Definition

1a either of two annually elected chief magistrates of the Roman republic.
b one of three chief magistrates of the French republic from 1799 to 1804
2 an official appointed by a government to reside in a foreign country to represent the commercial interests of citizens of the appointing country

Synonyms of consul

noun

Definition of consul

as in ambassador, diplomat, attaché, envoy
Additionally, the draft has been reviewed by Carlos Cañas Dinarte, who is an authority in El Salvador History, will comment his review and endorsement after has already reviewed the draft, this weekend. [1] https://www.ecured.cu/Carlos_Ca%C3%B1as_Dinarte

Fjnovoa ( talk) 03:05, 10 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi! What we've seen recently at WP:AFD is some ambassadors have been deleted because thar role isn't enough for preseumed notability, we need more. I don't want to accept your draft and have it immediately brought for deletion, but I'm not positive it wouldn't pass, so left that note for you and future reviewers. You've done excellent work to improve it and the others, so thank you. Star Mississippi 14:20, 10 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Hello @ Star Mississippi
What about if I change the inforbox in html from "officeholder" template to "writer" template. That would no longer show the focus on the ambassadorship but concentrate on the subject as a writer and his contribution to fine arts with the 300 pieces gold collection now being exhibited at the Boston Fine arts museum. Would that work?
And I have removed the sentence from "Achievements" as being a consul and kept it as an "Early life" fact, in the latter section. Fjnovoa ( talk) 15:13, 10 February 2024 (UTC) reply
I think he's much more likely to pass as an WP:NAUTHOR or maybe WP:NARTIST, to that end I'm pinging @ Netherzone who edits in art areas and may be able to help if the sourcing is sufficient there. Thanks for all your help and work on these @ Fjnovoa Star Mississippi 16:59, 11 February 2024 (UTC) reply
I saw this draft a couple days ago, and just had a quick look again. @ Fjnovoa, He sounds like an interesting person, but I'm sorry to say that he does not meet WP:NARTIST criteria for inclusion. Seldom do art collectors qualify, and the current sourcing of his gold collection at the BFA is primary, which simply proves his gold collection exists but does not determine if it is a notable collection.
If there is independent secondary in-depth coverage in reliable sources about the collection, for example in art history books or academic journals, then perhaps the collection itself (rather than him) may be notable, but that's a stretch. If a wing of a museum is named after a person who once owned a collection, that is more standard. (For example the David Geffen Galleries at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art or the Griffin Wing at MoMA.) [2]
If it turns out that the gold collection is notable, but he as an individual is not, there could still be a section on him in an article on the collection. Try doing a search on Google Books, and if you have access, on JSTOR. (If you don't have access to the latter, I do, but don't have the time at the moment to do that research.) Do keep in mind that there are many gold object collections around the world, so it's important to establish why this one in particular may be notable and not WP:MILL. You could also post a message to the talk page of WikiProject Arts as there are experienced editors there who may be able to help.
I'm less familiar with WP:NAUTHOR criteria, but will put the draft on my watchlist and if I have time in the next few days will do some research. If you can find independent reviews or journal articles that discuss his written works, please add them to the article, and when I review it will take these into account. Netherzone ( talk) 17:58, 11 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Thank you so much! Fjnovoa ( talk) 18:42, 11 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Happy superbowl weekend @ Netherzone and @ Star Mississippi,
I now have added the following two paragraph to the article Draft: Joaquín Arciniegas Tavera, facts which was narrated to me by Ricardo Armando Novoa Arciniegas when he was alive and through the oral tradition, for your consideration and with additional citations
After his death, the family inherited multiple documents and papyrus from the Simón Bolívar era that belonged to Arciniegas Tavera, that were later donated to the Colombian Institute and Library Gold Museum through Germán Arciniegas where there is a room or wing named after Don Joaquín Arciniegas in gratitude for such donation.
Additionally, the family donated to Museo Romántico that was founded by Doctor Eduardo Santos in the hacienda Yerbabuena of the Marroquíns; multiple miniature oil paintings authored by Jesús María Zamora, Ricardo Borrero Álvarez, Roberto Páramo, amongst others authors who's work was collected by Arciniegas Tavera.
Fjnovoa ( talk) 20:53, 11 February 2024 (UTC) reply
@ Fjnovoa, This should probably get moved to the draft talk page so other editors and reviewers can see it. Has the oral history been published? If not, unfortunately it's "heresay" and would be considered original research WP:OR which is not reliable for an encyclopedia. If it has been published, it would be a primary source, which is ok to use for fact checking but does not contribute to the notability of the subject. Netherzone ( talk) 21:47, 11 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Help please, @ Theroadislong is reversing any edits I make to the article, as I take both of you, @ Netherzone and @ Star Mississippi recommendations and guidance.
I have written to him/she directly and stated the following
I am still in the process of editing and providing further evidence and citations for the article, after reviews and observations from @Star Mississippi and @Netherzone. Kindly and respectfully, why are you erasing my edits, if the article is still in progress of editing? You are not providing me the opportunity to take care of the issues that have been found with the article that are preventing it from being reviewed and approved.
Please reinstate my edits which are mitigating with corrections and additional information per previous declines. Or are you just blocking any edits I make to not allow me to go forward with my further changes? Fjnovoa ( talk) 22:45, 11 February 2024 (UTC) reply
@ Fjnovoa, the reviewer, @Theroadislong, is highly experienced and I'm certain they made the changes for a WP policy/guidelines reason, there is no reason to doubt their actions. This conversation needs to be moved to the draft talk page, and I am going to move it there in my next edit. Please respond there. Netherzone ( talk) 23:15, 11 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Draft:Joaquín Arciniegas Tavera

 – please only reply there and not here or another User Talk. Star Mississippi 01:49, 13 February 2024 (UTC) reply
This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Hi @ Star Mississippi Kindly, could you please remove the message/comment left for me in the maintenance section, that is in the article page, that reads "Unlike those who held political office, I'm not sure about Tavera's notability as ambassadors are not inherently notable. This one will be a challenge due to age of sourcing, but I'm not going to decline as I think it's borderline".

I believe that I have remediated this, by changing the inforbox in html from office holder to writer, and the office no longer reflects that the subject was a diplomat in the infobox. Moreover, the sentence that used to be in the Achievements sections stating the subject was a consul general has been moved to the Early Life section, with the intent that the focus is not an ambassador, but rather a historian and writer, as well as Pre-Columbian art collector, and a collector of manuscripts and renown paintings of Colombia.

Your consideration is much appreciated. Fjnovoa ( talk) 15:26, 12 February 2024 (UTC) reply

( talk page stalker) We don't remove ANY comments until such time as the draft is accepted. Theroadislong ( talk) 15:28, 12 February 2024 (UTC) reply
( talk page stalker) @ Fjnovoa, I have twice asked you to use the article draft talk page which is located HERE: Draft talk:Joaquín Arciniegas Tavera. Please do so, as the discussion has been closed at this location, and it serves the community as a whole to keep commentary in one place. Please abide by the advise above and do not remove comments. Any maintenance tags should also be left in place until issues are resolve. Please kindly let the reviewers do their work, as they have a neutral POV WP:NPOV, and as a COI editor it seems that you may not. Please be patient and allow the draft to move naturally through the review process. Netherzone ( talk) 00:57, 13 February 2024 (UTC) reply

My apologies

@ Rosguill, Daniel, Deepfriedokra, Netherzone, and Theroadislong: my apologies for that headache you had to deal with. Especially the baseless harassment allegations. I really did believe they were editing in good faith. Le sigh. Thanks again. Star Mississippi 15:07, 15 February 2024 (UTC) reply

No worries! Theroadislong ( talk) 15:14, 15 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Of course you were editing in good faith. You are appreciated! Netherzone ( talk) 15:23, 15 February 2024 (UTC) reply
No problem. Goes with the territory. -- Deepfriedokra ( talk) 15:39, 15 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Fidel Novoa Meléndez

I started spot-checking the content against what the sources actually say in this article Fidel Novoa Meléndez by FJN. I've removed some of the content that definitely was not backed up by some of the sources. A lot of the article seems to be word-of-mouth, family-based oral history, or other original research. Other parts check out, and while I'm not disputing his notability, I think this editor's creations that were deleted from es-wiki need to be checked against what the sources actually say (which are primarily in Spanish). Netherzone ( talk) 17:58, 15 February 2024 (UTC) reply

This makes total sense. I know in the AfC acceptance there were some questions about ideal naming and disambiguation as well. Age of sourcing isn't helping either. I have a Times subscription but not newspapers.com even through TWL, apparently. Star Mississippi 14:52, 17 February 2024 (UTC) reply
I have both Newspapers.com and NewspaperARCHIVE.com thru TWL, so hit me up if you ever need me to look something up for you. The connections are a little unstable (sometimes they go offline), not sure if it's a server issue or WP is renegotiating their agreements with the companies. Thankfully a lot of the sources in FJN's articles are PDFs which I'm using for verification...it's time consuming because of the translations. My Spanish is rusty. (English, my first language ain't that great either, ha!) Netherzone ( talk) 15:12, 17 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michael Baron (2nd nomination)

Happy with your closure, but did you notice the replies were from socks? Doug Weller talk 12:25, 14 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Yep, the paperwork in my closing was in reference to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Emma knows it well. Or did you mean I should have gone back and struck? Happy to do so. I do it in active ones but not typically post close but can change that practice.
The main reason I didn't want to relist is SPI has been so understandably backlogged that I thought we'd acquire new friends before it was resolved and with the strong nom and input from Broc and Xxanthippe, it was one that didn't really even need a relist for consensus since the only arguments against was chatter among socks/meat that didn't really refute the no RS found. Star Mississippi 13:24, 14 February 2024 (UTC) reply
I wouldn't relist either. But I think striking them makes the AfD more transparent. Up to you entirely of course. Doug Weller talk 14:18, 14 February 2024 (UTC) reply
I kept running into issues with the template there since there was so much discussion between the socks so I just amended my close. Will do so in the initial close going forward. Thanks for the suggestion. Star Mississippi 15:15, 15 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Glad to be of help. And good work with the SPI. Some sockmasters don't give up. Doug Weller talk 17:21, 15 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Mail

Hello! Just a quick heads up that I sent you a brief email. Netherzone ( talk) 23:54, 14 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Please, help me!

Hello dear friend. I almost completely rewrote the article and indicated authoritative sources. The article showed the importance of the site and what it does for the citizens of Kazakhstan. Please check. I hope my article is valid. I will be extremely grateful if you publish my article in full! Egov.Press Zzremin ( talk) 20:15, 17 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi @ Zzremin. The article (it is not yours) has been published since earlier today.
Your persistence in discussing perceived injustice and asking about search engines does not inspire confidence that you have no conflict of interest regarding Egov.Press. Please focus on improving the article and the sourcing. Star Mississippi 21:35, 17 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Hello, I have absolutely nothing to do with the EGOV.PRESS project. As a resident of the Republic of Kazakhstan, I wanted to write on the English-language Wikipedia about a site that allows freedom of speech in our country. Most likely, because of my patriotic goals, you thought that I was related to the project. Please be understanding.
I have almost completely rewritten the article. He pointed out authoritative sources and indicated their significance. Please check it out. Thank you. Zzremin ( talk) 21:51, 17 February 2024 (UTC) reply
What is your concern with the search engine then? If your rewrite establishes notability, someone will remove the page. You do not need to continue to post about it repeating the same query, just focus on improving the article and if you have questions leave them on the article Talk where all will see it. Please also do not email me again. Star Mississippi 22:07, 17 February 2024 (UTC) reply
User:Zzremin - What is your concern about the search engine? When an editor asks questions about search engines, which usually are why Google isn't yet finding a newly created article, the usual reason that they are asking is that they are being paid to advertise via Wikipedia, and experienced Wikipedia editors will ask whether they are being paid to advertise via Wikipedia. If you just want to create an encyclopedia article, and Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, it isn't necessary to worry too much about search engines. Robert McClenon ( talk) 21:15, 18 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Sig

Your signature and {{ drv top}} really don't seem to get on too well. No idea why. I tried troubleshooting for like 5mins and couldn't work it out - the only way I fixed it at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2024 February 17 was to close it myself and then copy-paste your sig in. More as an FYI as I don't know why it's happening! Daniel ( talk) 22:30, 17 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Thank you @ Daniel for both the fix and the heads up. Something definitely glitched with that close, I though't I'd fixed it after it inserted something I hadn't typed. But this is the second issue with my sig in about a week so I've stripped everything but the colors until I can figure out what's up with it. Star Mississippi 22:37, 17 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Actually, you were answering a different question than I meant to be asking, although either of them can be inferred from what I wrote. I was asking a procedural question, which was whether our discussion, on a draft, was really about the article, which is the same as the draft. You were answering the substantive question about whether the article should be in article space.

I think that I will start the tedious task of looking at the references. Then again, maybe I will start it, so no promises. Robert McClenon ( talk) 20:28, 18 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Thanks for bringing it here @ Robert McClenon. I've looked at the first 5 web ones, and they don't even mention him. Coupled with the false access dates, the concerns I raised here are noa a red flag. But I don't think AfD is well equipped participation rate right now, to handle this because it looks well sourced but I'm afraid it's a partial hoax.
Pinging @ Onel5969 @ Qcne and @ Wikishovel who have attempted some clean up. Star Mississippi 20:35, 18 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Well, first of all, it's UPE. Should be draftified for that reason alone. I know that a draft already exists, but I would draftify it, and then redirect the second draft to the first. Onel5969 TT me 21:24, 18 February 2024 (UTC) reply
That would make sense to me @ Onel5969. When it comes to blatant shenanigans I have no objection to an out of process re-draftification. @ Robert McClenon, thoughts? And thanks on the above reply, but don't get your hope up. Star Mississippi 21:53, 18 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Oh, hells bells. I draftified it, to save others the headache, then redirected to existing draft. I'm sure I'll get blowback for it. It's one of the reasons I stopped doing NPP. Onel5969 TT me 22:12, 18 February 2024 (UTC) reply
He's a hair from an indef block for promotion, but I'll back you on any queries. Ping me if I miss it. There was no good faith in that repeated recreation. Star Mississippi 22:17, 18 February 2024 (UTC) reply
The originator should avoid throwing any boomerangs. UPE is often accompanied by other improper behavior such as the introduction of falsehoods and plagiarism. Robert McClenon ( talk) 04:46, 19 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Replying to ping: User:onel5969, for what it's worth, your moving it to draft seems to have been a good idea under the circumstances. Wikishovel ( talk) 15:40, 19 February 2024 (UTC) reply
History merge is done (thanks @ Pppery): Abshir Muse Said
I'm going to take it to AfD because this is ridiculous. Appreciate any insight. Star Mississippi 02:52, 22 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Biafra Liberation Army Rescue squadron list

I wish to duly inform you @ Star Mississippi that the Biafra Liberation Army Article mainspace which you just redirected to Simon Ekpa has been listed in Rescue squadron list. It's in accordance with Wikipedia rules and regulations. This is to bring to your notice to this very issue please. I was still improving the article before you redirected it to Simon Ekpa and I couldn't grasp it but now I can see you were never aware. The rescue squadron list is not yet closed. I appeal that you kindly restore the article so that I can continue the improvement of the article, adding multiple RS to it. Thanks for your understanding. Fugabus ( talk) 23:14, 19 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi @ Fugabus! I'm aware of ARS and appreciate the work that was done there, but there was consensus at the AfD. ARS' timer does not supersede that of AfD. However, if you believe my close did not reflect the discussion at the AfD, you're welcome to file a Deletion Review. Star Mississippi 23:40, 19 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi Star Mississippi. Regarding your close, I thought there was enough consensus for a merge; if that discussion were at RM, I think a closer would have found consensus, notwithstanding the objections that it was a pseudo-Latin phrase, on the strength of the argument that it's been cited in other sources beyond the context of Les Misérables; making editors go through another hoop to develop the same consensus seems to run into WP:NOTBURO. voorts ( talk/ contributions) 23:23, 19 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi @ Voorts. Counting heads, there's a slight edge for a merge but rereading all of them, they're about equal in total weight as one of the merger !votes really had nothing behind it.
I don't think a formal merger discussion is necessarily needed, but if you perform the merge, it is possible that someone will disagree and revert it. There isn't the weight of the AfD behind it. Would you like me to relist to see if a consensus can form for a merge? I have no objection to doing so, but am not sure participation won't continue to be split. Thoughts? Star Mississippi 23:44, 19 February 2024 (UTC) reply
I think a relist would potentially be helpful and help get to a consensus. Thanks! voorts ( talk/ contributions) 23:46, 19 February 2024 (UTC) reply
 Done If I missed any steps, let me know or feel free to take. Have a good evening. Star Mississippi 23:56, 19 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Thanks. You as well. voorts ( talk/ contributions) 23:57, 19 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Respectfully, I had edit conflicted with you on the closure of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alex Heckler while trying to !vote on it. I had intended to add a comment in support of keeping the article, as follows:

  • Keep. This individual has been significantly covered by multiple independent reliable sources in the context of multiple events (i.e. this individual easily passes WP:GNG/ WP:NBASIC). Such sources include a ~2,250-word profile in The Wall Street Journal from 2008 and coverage in The South Florida Sun-Sentinel from 2004 and also from 2008. There is also some less substantial coverage of him in The Miami Herald (regarding his non-political work), NBC News ( 2003, 2013; each regarding his role as a fundraiser), The Tampa Bay Times (regarding his appointment to Chair of the Governor's Cabinet of the Democratic Governors' Association), The New York Times (with coverage of his 2007 wedding, as well as more passing mention in 2011 regarding fundraising). Appeals to WP:NPOL are a bit spurious; his notability does not come from holding or running for public office, and he himself is not a politician in a plain sense.

I understand that this comes belatedly, but I am wondering if you would be willing to re-open and relist the discussion so that additional sources can be discussed. — Red-tailed hawk  (nest) 03:22, 21 February 2024 (UTC) reply

I'm not sure it's going to make a difference in the end, but happy to for more input. Give me about 2m. Star Mississippi 03:29, 21 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Thank you!Red-tailed hawk  (nest) 03:31, 21 February 2024 (UTC) reply
and then I E/Ced with you on my relist comment. The universe was out of alignment tonight, or a little too well aligned, depending on how you want to look at it :D Star Mississippi 03:37, 21 February 2024 (UTC) reply

AfC notification: Draft:Mark Francis (arts administrator) has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Mark Francis (arts administrator). Thanks! GoingBatty ( talk) 03:42, 21 February 2024 (UTC) reply

What Do I Have to Do? (Stabbing Westward song)

Instead of closing Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/What Do I Have to Do? (Stabbing Westward song), should we not relist this at the highly visible AFD to establish consensus? -- Jax 0677 ( talk) 13:01, 22 February 2024 (UTC) reply

It was already relisted. The article isn't going to be deleted as no one but you was in favor of that, therefore more time at an overwhelmed AfD isn't needed. If there's no disagreement on a merger proposal, someone can do it boldly. That said, if you believe my close was in error you're welcome to file a Deletion Review. Star Mississippi 13:08, 22 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Deletion review for What Do I Have to Do? (Stabbing Westward song)

An editor has asked for a deletion review of What Do I Have to Do? (Stabbing Westward song). Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. Jax 0677 ( talk) 21:32, 24 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Thank you @ Jax 0677. I'll respond there to keep it all central. Star Mississippi 21:56, 24 February 2024 (UTC) reply

It looks like the user you banned is still working on Draft:Aleksandar Saša Trajkovski as an IP editor. I doubt anyone uninvolved is going to start working on a draft of an obscure Macedonian writer, anyway... -- asilvering ( talk) 17:06, 23 February 2024 (UTC) reply

thanks. I've blocked. Did the SPI ever get resolved? That's some deafening quacking that didn't need it, but wanted to note it there if it did. Star Mississippi 17:12, 23 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Oh Found it. @ Spicy CU blocked Shviki ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
FYI Spicy if you want to take this IP as a CU block with the others or otherwise handle. Star Mississippi 17:28, 23 February 2024 (UTC) reply
shocker shocker, Hristijan Kicho ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) came back. I've just sock blocked them as well. Star Mississippi 19:06, 23 February 2024 (UTC) reply
one wonders why they even try... -- asilvering ( talk) 23:00, 23 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Talking

Hi there, just wanted to chat you up so you understand my position. I am not advocating to allow them to continue disruption. I only want to see the opportunity to change that behavior into something useful and not be cast out with no voice at all. I think that depending on the level of what they are saying some leeway on talk pages should be there because it allows the ability to hopefully change those opinions. I hope you understand I don't mean to continue to allow them to say things that are inappropriate.

I'm probably naive here but I think things like racism, sexism and this gender stuff comes from people on both sides trying to make the other the boogeyman with people not taking the time to hear some of the things they need to hear. I don't support discrimination on trans or abuse in any shape, if what I said comes off that way I apologize. I'm not them, I don't feel those feelings personally so I don't have a big window to how they experience the world. What I do know is that while I don't understand some of it, I don't need to, the only thing I have to do is treat them good and give them the same respect and love I'd want. I experience the world the way I do and it's as unique to me as is theirs to them. I hope what I said hasn't or didn't offend you, it wasn't meant to. Unbroken Chain ( talk) 01:10, 25 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi! Definitely easier here than ANI. MY concern with letting them learn is it impacts other editors who are harmed by hearing nonsense (from the editor we're talking about, not you) from editors who aren't trying to learn but are spouting trite talking points. No one but AGC was confused at who "they" referred to here because it was well written. He - assuming based on screen name - appears contrite so hopefully they have learned and will be productive elsewhere. My experience is folks, especially with a particular userbox, don't change their spots, but happy to be wrong here. Thanks for reaching out. Star Mississippi 01:23, 25 February 2024 (UTC) reply
You are probably not wrong if they persisted after the AE warnings but in my case it did take a gender and sexuality class in university to understand some of the "benevolent" sexism stuff that I would fall into without realizing it. The documentary Intersexion also made me view the trans issue different. I learned there was a science to it that I had not known of previously and it taught me the realization that not being a doctor I am not qualified to make a determination on these issues and if that was the case I don't want to cause people pain. Maybe the same or similar can happen here with them. I appreciate that you took time to read and respond to me here. It was important for me to make sure you didn't feel like I was promoting that viewpoint :) Unbroken Chain ( talk) 01:32, 25 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Never took you to be promoting that and never seen you as editing in anything but a positive light so we're all good. Nuance is hard at AN, so appreciate you reaching out. Star Mississippi 02:38, 25 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Thanks!

Hello, Star Mississippi,

Thank you for cleaning up all of those unnecessary AFD nominations. I think the account must be compromised because I looked at their earlier edits and they were solid, gnomish editing. I don't know why they went over-the-top, nominating so many decent articles. But, maybe, if they post an unblock request, there might be some clarity about this. But thanks for your swift action and on a weekend! Liz Read! Talk! 02:07, 25 February 2024 (UTC) reply

You're most welcome @ Liz. Credit where due too to @ Tollens who walked me through it and caught some that I missed.
Potential socking has been raised at ANI and I haven't had time to look into it, but a compromised account would also make sense. Lots of weirdness afoot this weekend. Star Mississippi 02:33, 25 February 2024 (UTC) reply

I've been whacked with a wet trout.

You're right. I shouldn't be using Wikipedia for social networking. For that, you deserve the right to hit me with the trout. However, I do have to admit that DFO did thank me for my edit on his talk page, but other than that, I take all responsibility and fault for the edit. NoobThreePointOh ( talk) 19:42, 26 February 2024 (UTC) reply

No trouts needed. Just put the energy to good use. Have a great day. Star Mississippi 21:59, 26 February 2024 (UTC) reply
( talk page stalker) I have to disagree. I NEED trouts. Hooked 3 today and they all got away!! GRRRR Unbroken Chain ( talk) 02:12, 27 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Dinner is on you next time then @ Unbroken Chain!
I recently learned, albeit not from our article, that Roscoe, New York is Trout Town USA! Perhaps that's where they all headed to Star Mississippi 02:39, 27 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Nauman335

Can't make this up. They are back as user KnownIt. CNMall41 ( talk) 22:16, 27 February 2024 (UTC) reply

We're on Wiki Candid Camera! Star Mississippi 00:38, 28 February 2024 (UTC) reply

There was just one comment in this AFD, and he did not actually say the article is to be redirected, only that it is one the plausible options, something the nominator then interpreted as a "redirect" vote. I'd strongly suggest this should have been relisted instead of closed. Howard the Duck ( talk) 20:23, 28 February 2024 (UTC) reply

 Done @ Howard the Duck
I hesitate to whether we'll get more meaningful input, but happy to give it more time. Thanks for flagging. Star Mississippi 01:55, 29 February 2024 (UTC) reply
Thanks. I made the article, but have decided not to participate, just to let how other people argue this. If no one else comments, I would rather would have closed as "no consensus to delete", as the sole !vote actually argued against deletion, and was misconstrued by the nominator as "redirect" when the person "suggested" it as a possible outcome, not the outcome s/he would have wanted. Howard the Duck ( talk) 01:58, 29 February 2024 (UTC) reply
When the history is preserved, which it was in my closure, nothing is deleted. That's why a redirect is generally considered to be an ATD.
Feel free to participate. It looks like the obvious del-sorts have been added, hopefully more eyes will join. Star Mississippi 02:18, 29 February 2024 (UTC) reply

AFDs

Hello, Star Mississippi,

I am just burned out on AFDs. We have been losing discussion closers and participants (at least decent ones) for months now. I took a break two weeks ago and came back to see the absence of some regulars I had grown to rely on. I don't see any consensus on many discussions so I relist them, then I get flak for relisting discussions that an editor wants to be closed according to their point-of-view. And sometimes there is no further participation even after a couple of relistings. I think instead of nominating bad articles, a lot of marginal articles are getting nominated these days and there is just no conclusive discussion on what should happen with them.

About a year ago, I went to the Village Pump asking for more editors to participate in deletion discussions but I couldn't tell whether or not anyone responded to that plea. I'm out of ideas and what bothers me more than inconclusive discussions is that it often comes down to one or two editors determining whether or not an article is deleted and no handful of editors should have that much influence on the project's content. I'm thankful for help clearing out bad articles from the project but I see what I think are decent articles get deleted because they only had one or two sources, not three.

Any ideas on how to get more editors and admins to help out? I know that every single area of the project is short-staffed these days but this is an area that I spend time on so it's what is on my mind, at least tonight. Thanks for letting me vent. Liz Read! Talk! 04:26, 29 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Sorry for the delay in responding @ Liz.
I think I caught part of your hiatus when I was surprised to find unclosed discussions when I checked the log. There haven't been enough admins for years, but I do think AIV and UAA are also seeing backlogs as well, as you noted. During this window of time when we don't have enough participation, I really think AfD should not be used for uncontroversial mergers as it doesn't really get more eyes and doesn't help. I've been at DRV recently for not being a magician, but I also understand the users' frustration on both that and because N/C just kicks the can down the road.
Going to try and think on this for more ideas, but in the mean time I absolutely second this. Star Mississippi 16:38, 1 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Sorry if my message was more emotionally charged than typical talk page messages are on Wikipedia. I sometimes spend an inordinate amount of time working on the project and that, combined with not getting a full night's sleep, can result in viewing a situation as more dire than it seems in the morning.
I've just been concerned that thoughtful participation in AFDs requires more effort than many editors want to go to so our pool of editors who regularly participate in deletion discussions in a productive way has dwindled over the past year. And I can understand the frustration of spending a couple of hours looking for sources and then finding the article is deleted any way. I'm less sure of why admins circulate out of helping with AFD closures except it's no fun being summoned to Deletion review or having editors who are angry about an outcome come to your User talk page. But I can think of at least 8 admins I regularly encountered on the daily AFD log page that have moved on to other activities that they find more pleasant or fulfiling.
While I'm so grateful for their time, I do worry that the editors who are very savvy about AFD participation have an outsized influence on what articles are kept or deleted. And I don't think that a lot of editors realize that deletion decisions can come down to one or two editors. Of course, the same could be said of CSD and PROD tagging but it's more obvious at AFD. Any way, I'll stop here because I've left a lot of content here. Of course I could have emailed these remarks but I was hoping that other editors might see this and offer opinions on how to address the editor/admin shortage. Thanks and I hope you have a nice weekend....we have a prediction of more snow here overnight. Liz Read! Talk! 04:45, 2 March 2024 (UTC) reply
I am quite new to AfD and wanted to help out with relistings and closings as NAC, with some occasional !votes too. I kinda like the clerking jobs, but like Liz pointed out, some of my closings got challenged (mostly bc I might have misread the consensus) and that gave me a little setback. Hence I took a little break from AfD but I can see that there is very little participation.
On the top of my head, I can suggest an idea. I'm not sure how much it will work, but we can get Signpost to do a feature on AfD, with some statistics and stuff, plus a paragraph on the demand for more participation from sysops and editors alike. Maybe that can alert the community about this. I used to write for Signpost, but it's been years I went down that road now. So we can try that out prolly.
I'm going for a WikiBreak due to an IRL situation for a couple of weeks where I might not get access to internet. I'll drop by wheneverI can in between. Thanks and happy editing. The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 05:07, 2 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Take care of yourself first & foremost @ The Herald. Not doing that is what leads to editor burnout, which is a part of why we're here. Also, a 20+ year project and people moving into other life phases where they're not as active. For me, I came back during COVID lockdown after years of declining time and interest in the project.
@ Liz I think the other part of it is we've lost some powerhouses in the last few years: Possibly, Nosbagbear,Eagleash, Anthony Appleyard, DGG, Vami_V recently. It's a lot of regular participation that is just gone. Especially with history merges. I wonder whether we're back filling. I also feel like project maturity is a part of it. Similar to their being a much smaller percentage of articles needing creating, besides the old backlogs that @ Boleyn is frequently clearing (with much appreciation), there aren't a ton of articles that must now go to AfD. Folks persist in bringing them and the huge pile of nominations is just insurmountable. Another issue is the drive by participation & sniping on both sides. There are several editors whose participation is not healthy (to them, nor to the project), but topic banning isn't going to help anything either. Vent away any time here. Star Mississippi 15:55, 2 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Also pinging @ OwenX who I E/Ced with a few times while trying to tackle today's log for their thoughts. Star Mississippi 15:08, 2 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Thank you for the ping, Star Mississippi!
Liz, please don't give up! You are one of the most dependable AfD closers, and the gentle nudges toward consensus in your relistings are exactly what we need. I, too, am not happy to see a decline in participation by great AfD regulars like TimothyBlue and XOR'easter. I hope this is temporary. For my part, I'll try to do more, both in terms of AfD participation and closing, especially the heated, contentious ones that no one wants to touch. I don't mind being raked over the coals at DRV every once in a while, although I do appreciate the support I get there from you and from Star Mississippi--or the constructive criticism, as the case warrants. I check the backlog daily, and try to close at least one tricky AfD a day, in addition to a handful of straightforward ones. I don't know if I'll be able to keep up this pace in April through June, which is the busiest time for me, work-wise, but I'll try do my part. I am in no position to preach, having just come back from a long wiki-hiatus myself (it was nice to be greeted back by you!). Don't push yourself to the point of burnout. Lighten your load until things feel more balanced. None of this is worth losing sleep over. Owen× 17:14, 2 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Liz, for what it's worth, I've regularly gone to check the unclosed AfD list these past few weeks and only rarely found any discussions left for me to close. So at least from my perspective as a fellow closer, we seem to have a handle on the closure side of the question. signed, Rosguill talk 20:16, 2 March 2024 (UTC) reply
I just burned out a bit, but I will be back; I try and help on the difficult ones, especially BLPs. NPP and AfD both give me the feeling the water is cresting the dam, but I have no solutions. @ Liz: thank you for all you do at AfD.  //  Timothy ::  talk  21:35, 3 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Good to hear you'll be back, TimothyBlue! Your well-reasoned views in AfDs usually cut through the clutter. Owen× 22:44, 3 March 2024 (UTC) reply
I tried to dip my toe in NPP and even as a decently-tenured AfC reviewer, I am lost there. Happy to help if there's a good tutorial @ TimothyBlue
@ OwenX I always appreciate your insight as well. There are some really messy ones lately. Star Mississippi 03:00, 4 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • If there's a genuine need to close AfDs, I would possibly consider nominating to be an admin at some point. I've just figured there's more of a need for participants than closers, and I'm trying to spend less time on here at the moment, but I'd be happy to help. SportingFlyer T· C 11:22, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    I agree, there is more of a need for participants familiar with our P&G than there is for closers. And your participation in AfDs, SportingFlyer, has been extremely helpful to me, as I'm sure it has been to other closers. Owen× 15:03, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    I think there's both. Closures have been challenging and challenged (and I have no issue with folks challenging them, it's well within their right and other than the obvious trolls and other bad actors all I've dealt with have merit even if I endorse my close). Look at the DRVs we've been in this week, both the current one and Lion of Oz. Especially the current one, the DRV is better attended than the discussion. Seconding @ OwenX that I so appreciate your input @ SportingFlyer because you make your case, it's not just a !vote. Lion is a mess and part of why I don't fault @ GSS (courtesy ping due to mention) for their close is it had lingered so why not give it a go. I said similar to @ The Herald above whose input I also value. Thanks both Star Mississippi 16:01, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply
DRVs are very essential to keep in check for some bad closes and I'm looking at the silver lining of the current DRV. Like Star Mississippi said, it had higher turnout than the nom itself, which was surprising and makes me happy. Now with those two redirect !votes, it'd have been an easy consensus and a close. But yeah, I agree that we need more participants like SF and Owen, someone with clear cut knowledge of P&Gs. Closers aren't the dire need at hand now, but participants are. To be frank, I am learning more and more about P&Gs right now by closing and I am only selectively !voting in obvious outcome discussions. But once I am confident enough, I'll start participanting more in the discussions actively. In the meanwhile, we can think about the Signpost feature I talked about earlier. Thanks and happy editing. The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 16:29, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply
@ The Herald: If it helps, here's my AfD procedure - it's not really formal, but it's how I approach things. 1. Look at the actual article. Are there sources? Are there any sources which look like they clearly pass WP:GNG? Does it look like it obviously violates WP:NOT? Is the topic about a person or about a "thing"? If it's about a person or about a business, I'm immediately more cautious in terms of !keeping, especially if there's any promotional element. 2. Perform a source search if there aren't good sources in the article and WP:NOT isn't flagged. If the topic's not from an English speaking country, I'll first look to see if there are other wikipedias with the same article and check the sourcing there - it's usually not as good, but often can be very helpful. Then I'll perform a web search using appropriate search engines, though I feel like these have gotten a lot worse even in the past couple years. Google Books and Google Scholar have been the most helpful recently, along with DuckDuckGo's ability to search by country. If I still strike out, and I feel like there's a good chance it's still notable, I'll find local or historical newspapers and perform a search there. If by this point there's nothing, I'm a clear !delete. Most of the time there are only a few sources of varying quality and at that point it's a WP:COMMONSENSE judgment decision. SportingFlyer T· C 16:40, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply
THIS...comments like these are the reason why I believe we are immortal and Wikipedia community will never die. Thanks from the bottom of my heart for going this extra mile for the practical approach to AfD. You have my !support in your RfA already. Thanks again. Imma star this message, SF. The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 16:50, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Seconding @ SportingFlyer's great advice, I often see @ HighKing drop useful guidelines in organizational related discussions because of the depth required in N:ORG/CORP. A company gets coverage for existing, but it's not helpful if it's not of the depth needed. See also event listings at schools and cultural organizations. @ The Herald you should feel the love. You've done solid work. Being taken to DRV is almost a right of passage and those closes aren't wrong so much as complex. Essentially the same thing I just said re: GSS' close at Lion Star Mississippi 17:48, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply
DRVs though are relatively rare and attract a specific group of regulars. There are a lot of AfDs, and I'm at the point now where I'm only going to participate in AfD areas where I feel comfortable !voting. I think it's good DRVs receive a lot of participation as it's the appeals process. SportingFlyer T· C 16:30, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Jumping in here, but I am in the same general place as you, and I am more likely to weigh in when there is some dispute in the issues I follow or when there is a more obvious answer. - Enos733 ( talk) 21:07, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Related issue

I wish we had something between PROD and AfD. Because of the rules of PROD and soft deletion, we have AfDs like Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Catabasis Pharmaceuticals. (I'm going to drop Liz a courtesy note since she doesn't do pings). She did what she had to do since it's ineligible for soft deletion, but no one is actually arguing for retention because no one cares about a random, non notable company. Enter my IAR close because another relist was pointless. AfD reform is hot topic and rightfully so, but we really need meaningful deletion reform because I'm not sure the process works for a 20 year old project. Star Mississippi 18:23, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply

It's almost impossible to change policy these days. People are treating our guidelines as if they were Scripture, not to be messed with by mortals. "The system works just fine" or "This is a solution looking for a problem" are the most likely responses you'll get for a proposal to change things. The last meaningful guideline change we got was NSPORTS2022, which doesn't really add much to the sacred GNG. I doubt the current proposals about RfA will end with much more than just, "We should really be more civilized on RfAs", but I hope I'm wrong.
As for AfDs, yes, I see your point about these marginal situations. I doubt we'd get policy changed, but if we reach a consensus among us here on how to handle those, and support such closes on DRV, it will in time become a de facto standard practice. I don't like invoking IAR, but if an unsourced article has been tagged for a while, and the AfD receives no legitimate argument to keep, nor a sensible ATD, it is within the discretion of the closing admin to delete even if a prior PROD was declined. This option is even described as acceptable in WP:NOQUORUM, so we're not really introducing anything radical here. Such deletions are rarely overturned at DRV. Owen× 18:58, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Ah, now I will have to admit I was lurking here, because yes: I won't use PROD now because of this issue (and well done and thank you for the IAR close). I PRODed something some time back and, as always seems to happen, someone removed the PROD with just an edsum saying this should go to AfD so then Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gwaun Troed-rhiw-seiri a Llyn Mynydd-gorddu sat for weeks at AfD with not a single !vote - not even from the PROD remover - and in the end we kept an article that was not about one place but two - neither of which can be found on a map, although both apparently have some 🌷 in common. Just removing the ineligibility for soft deletion would seem to be a small but valuable change. Sirfurboy🏄 ( talk) 21:59, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply
NSPORTS2022 was wonderful but also a nightmare. For about six months after I nearly refused to close the sports discussions because it felt like the close was being relitigated in each discussion. I think (hope) it has settled since although some still seem oddly contentious. GEOLAND seems to be on the cusp of... something, although I'm not sure exactly what.
@ Sirfurboy I skip PROD entirely for certain things: schools, athletes, places. I think to both your & @ OwenX's points we could end up with a middle ground somehow because there has to be sanity. There was another Welsh "place" recently. I can't remember if I closed it or not but it was another "no one cares but process says". Thanks both! Star Mississippi 00:40, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Yes, I generally avoid closing GEOLAND AfDs. Maybe we need NSPORTS and GEOLAND specialist closers. Owen× 00:46, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Uptown Scottsbluff

Can you please draft Uptown Scottsbluff into my userspace? I feel the AFD was invalid and would like to improve it. Ten Pound Hammer( What did I screw up now?) 21:54, 29 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Here you go: User:TenPoundHammer/Uptown Scottsbluff
Sourcing will need to be substantially improved before you restore it or it will be back at AfD even if not a G4. Star Mississippi 15:31, 1 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Koumac Airport

Any chance for a relist of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Koumac Airport? It still seems like an unresolved debate to me, given that of the three keep !votes, one is WP:PERX and another is just WP:ITSNOTABLE. Pilaz ( talk) 16:18, 3 March 2024 (UTC) reply

I don't see it closing any other way, but happy to avoid bureaucracy and have done so. Sorry for the delay! Star Mississippi 01:37, 4 March 2024 (UTC) reply
No problem, thanks for relisting regardless! Pilaz ( talk) 21:35, 4 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Thank you for the close

I appreciate you putting that thread out of its misery. I do have a mild complaint slash request about the closing statement. I may send you email about it in a little while after I give this some more thought. If I do I would not be expecting an email back, just either a rewording or not as seems best to you. It's a "just saying" kind of thing with a slight tinge of privacy concerns

But seriously, thanks again Elinruby ( talk) 19:00, 3 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Happy to reconsider if needed. I'll keep an eye out @ Elinruby, but if you wouldn't mind dropping a note here when you've sent it. Sometimes the notices here don't make it in p ings. Star Mississippi 02:14, 4 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Ok. I praised you in a section on my talk page that someone startec based (I think) on that closing statement. That may shed some light on what I am talking about. People don't click the freaking links. Thank you for being someone who does.

i will drop you a note, sure. trying to come up with a better idea first. Elinruby ( talk) 02:23, 4 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Incoming email Elinruby ( talk) 12:22, 4 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Just noting I've seen it, will respond tomorrow when I have time/brain cells to give it the attention it deserves. Star Mississippi 03:15, 5 March 2024 (UTC) reply
ok. Haven't seen one but I am not on the device that gets email. At your leisure if you haven't responded yet. I said what I needed to and am content. Comment below is regardless of your response Elinruby ( talk) 05:27, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Thank you! I'm always happy to help. And really, reading diffs shouldn't be a high ask.
The lack of response is my fault. I ended up working away from my primary device. I'll be in touch soon or at the weekend I promise. Apologies Star Mississippi 15:00, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Nono I really meant it when I said that I said what I said and get to it when you can. No rush. Back to doing regular stuff with sane people Elinruby ( talk) 16:24, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Egov.Press

Heads up I just declined a draft for Draft:ALASH online which is the alternative website address for Egov.Press I think. Theroadislong ( talk) 19:29, 3 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Le sigh. Thanks!
I updated the SPI. I have a feeling we're going to play whack a promotion for some time. I'm not going to reject the draft as I'm too Involved, but someone should. Star Mississippi 01:41, 4 March 2024 (UTC) reply

To go with the praise elsewhere

The Admin's Barnstar
for actually clicking on the diffs Elinruby ( talk) 05:24, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Do you think this is a problem?

Hi Star Mississippi, you probably remember me from joining the ANI report you filed against another user, which led to sanctions. Recently, at Talk:La Rambla Building (and even at another user's talk page) that same user appears to be badgering other editors to try to push for the implementation of a challenged edit request. By now, there's a total of 5 of us involved over there, do you think this is a problem? Any advice or assistance in dealing with the situation would be much appreciated. Left guide ( talk) 05:37, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Apologies for the delay and thanks for flagging. I will go look and comment there if I can help.
That editor is unfortunately a long term challenge of unwillingness to comply with expected standards as I assume you well know. Star Mississippi 15:11, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
No worries about the delay, anything helps, thanks for your input there. And yeah I agree with the last sentence; this is certainly an editor to keep an eye on because it seems that if it's not one thing it's another, so the more eyes the better. He'll try practically any trick in the book to get his way; for what it's worth, some of his self-disclosed ancestors he made articles about were high-ranking politicians (and in my opinion are the few that might actually be notable for Wikipedia) so maybe it's in his blood. The overall pattern looks rooted in WP:OWNERSHIP on these specific sets of articles, which you seemed to allude to in the ANI. The article-space block has made things noticeably calmer (though not entirely peaceful as evidenced by this incident) for the rest of us to have more time and space to do other things on Wikipedia and real life, definitely a good call on your part to make that proposal. Hopefully the behavior will improve and these recurring time-sinks will go away soon. Anyways, that's probably enough for now, thanks again for assisting. Left guide ( talk) 22:57, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
*sigh*… Left guide ( talk) 02:24, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply
I do not have the on wiki time for another AN/I this week, but I very much see one coming. Honestly not sure if this is sheer stubborn or CIR (with a side of PAID) cc @ Netherzone Star Mississippi 02:38, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Understandable; gaining traction at that last ANI was a time-consuming and exhausting experience. Honestly, one legitimate concern I have by this point is that the editor victimized in the initial incident may have felt driven off the project by this behavior; they were a near-daily prolific good-faith editor nowhere to be found now. That was a very jarring incident. I know if I was in their shoes, I wouldn't feel welcome on this site at all. Left guide ( talk) 03:48, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply
That editor has some complex history of jumping in to the deep end before they're fully aware of the steps needed (see their tenure clerking ANI) despite meaning well. I'm not sure it was Gregg's behavior so much as waiting for the eyes on them to lessen. I think/hope they'll be back Star Mississippi 10:52, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Ah, that makes sense, thanks for the additional insight. I still believe that the badgering responses were far out-of-proportion to the mistakes made, especially given that the self-reverts were requested by another editor. And I hope they'll be back too; I have much respect for those volunteers willing to take on large amounts of edit requests due to the backlogs, especially the COI ones. I've looked at edit requests, and paid company editors have a tendency to post long walls of text that I don't have the patience to sift through. Left guide ( talk) 12:00, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply
I think the newer editor is probably just taking a wikibreak - their user page has a hatnote that they are in school. I don't know if they are based in the U.S. but Spring break generally is held sometime between March 11 and April 1, and they may have had mid-term exams or papers due. I think they will be back, I certainly hope so!
Re: the other editor, I definitely think CIR is at play along with IDHT, and GAMING.. I also think that the "stubbornness" has to do with a sense of pride - in local community and in family. Those certainly can be positive attributes for a person to have, but are displaced here as a form of SOAPBOXING with a "side" of COI. It's exhausting and a long term time sink. Sigh... Netherzone ( talk) 13:55, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Consideration to permanently block these IPs? At my last wit here

Hi Star Mississippi. For nearly 12 (!!!) years now, 98.186.55.18 has created hundreds of article & template drafts that were rejected per WP:TOOSOON and WP:CRYSTAL. He was warned God knows how many times, blocked many times, and was extremely hostile when banned. He's an absolute pain to the sports WikiProjects (both college and professional) and at this point there is 0% chance he'll ever change. This editor exhibits no required competence, and is an objective detriment to Wikipedia. He's evaded blocks by using different IPs (e.g. 98.186.54.177 // 70.179.216.206 // 68.103.78.155 // 68.102.39.189 // 2600:8803:7A00:19:F9E8:259A:179F:F5C1 // 68.102.40.154 // 68.102.61.195 ... I could link even more).

In May 2022 I alerted you to his inadequate competence back then, and two years later we're still dealing with the same shit. It's never going away; I'm personally fed up.

You've been a great administrator for nearly 16 years. You may need to defer the request I'm about to make to another admin per being previously WP:INVOLVED with this IP, but: Can you please permanently block any or all of the aforementioned IPs? SportsGuy789 ( talk) 07:08, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply

@ SportsGuy789 Well, there's no way to block an IP address permanently, considering that there might be other people also using it. Definitely possible to block normal accounts even if someone else uses it, but certainly not IPs. NoobThreePointOh ( talk) 14:48, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Then what's the solution? Can't there be like a year-long block at least? SportsGuy789 ( talk) 15:32, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Yeah. Year-long blocks are certainly possible. NoobThreePointOh ( talk) 15:46, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Can we do that on 98.186.55.18 then? SportsGuy789 ( talk) 15:51, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Hi @ SportsGuy789. @ NoobThreePointOh is correct in that we can't indef IPs because they change. I'm not declining to act because of Involvement, but rather range blocks are really beyond my familiarity if they're block evading. For now I've reblocked 98. You may need to take it to AN/I unless I have a TPS who has better ideas on the range block side. Star Mississippi 16:01, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Thank you for the help with a block on 98 to start. A lot of those other IPs are old and haven't been disruptively editing for years, so I'm cautiously optimistic he won't be using those again. SportsGuy789 ( talk) 16:28, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
I don't know how you've dealt with this. I trusted your report, of course, and vaguely remembered but as soon as they got low-key abusive again I was like oh yeah, that one. Yuck. Star Mississippi 18:48, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
@ Star Mississippi Eeesh. It can get pretty ugly at times. Let's just hope that they don't strike again, because the damage that accumulates might become even worse. NoobThreePointOh ( talk) 21:52, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Museumand

Thanks, but did you mean to type "disagree" where you typed "agree"? Pam D 16:35, 9 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Indeed. Fixed. Thanks so much for flagging. Star Mississippi 16:48, 9 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Refund to draftspace?

Hi Star Mississippi, can I take you up on the refund offer at WP:Articles for deletion/Hira Mosque? (I'd assume to Draft:Hira Mosque) The sources I supplied at AfD (an academic journal and a foreign language source) would take some time and effort for me to comb through, so I'd venture to say the notability is inconclusive, but it's a topic I have some personal interest in. I might merge some info into other articles either way (I appreciate the suggestions in your closing statement). Also, is there a ja.wiki article? I can't remember, I should've noted that before deletion, sorry about that. Thanks. Left guide ( talk) 23:24, 9 March 2024 (UTC) reply

You're all set. Per Wikidata, there's ja:行徳モスク and a few other languages, alas none of which I read.
Thanks for reading my close as intended as I definitely think there's a home for this information, there just wasn't the sourcing to necessarily merit a standalone. Let me know if you need anything else on this. Happy to help. Star Mississippi 23:46, 9 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Thank you so much! :) Left guide ( talk) 23:49, 9 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Hello, Star Mississippi,

I hope you are having a good weekend. While you closed this AFD discussion as Merge, because you mention two separate articles, the article under discussion doesn't have a Merge tag on it and the Merge target articles are missing it, too. I don't work with Merges so I rely on XFDcloser to do this tagging and so I don't know the correct template to use. But I think once the article is tagged, the article will appear in the correct categories so editors can see that it needs to be merged.

Also, thanks for letting me know about the discussion (above). It's interesting reading. Liz Read! Talk! 02:29, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi! Yes, I did that as a custom because I learned (from you?) that merger close with A or B breaks either the script or creates a discussion page for a non existent article A or B. I can manually tag it, but without a target, I think even {{merge-to}} will fail. I'm about to log off for the evening, but will look into it tomorrow unless you have sorted it out. I don't think there's an easy answer. And no worries, thought you'd enjoy where your question/comment went. Star Mississippi 02:51, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply
oh never mind, @ Stephen sorted it out for both us. Star Mississippi 02:52, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply
God bless talk page stalkers! It seems like there is always someone who knows how to fix a problem. You definitely didn't learn it from me, I don't know how to close an AFD discussion with a decision to Merge to more than one article. I think I have history merged 4 or 5 times and have not manually merged any articles so I'm not familiar with the Merge templates. Liz Read! Talk! 06:38, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Indeed!
I have some vague recollection of in your G8 patrolling you had to delete one that me/the script created such as Talk:Topic A or B. I hate history merges! I've tried but usually end up b0rking. Star Mississippi 10:44, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply
I know that it is technically possible to "unmerge" articles if a mistake has been made but I wouldn't know how to do it. So, I've only done clear cut cases where it is suitable, generally when an editor has created a new category that is identical to one that has existed for a long time. Liz Read! Talk! 01:31, 12 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Can you help me make sense of this?

I'm sure you know by now that the discussion at WP:Articles for deletion/Techspressionism has become a mess in more ways than one. I've been trying to help organize and keep track of it, but I'm unable to wrap my head around this edit. My best guess is that part of MarioCCult's original comment is now erroneously embedded into Scribe1791's comment, but I'm not 100% sure. If I had caught it at the time, I would've just reverted. Courtesy ping Netherzone also. Left guide ( talk) 03:50, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi! I think @ Netherzone has fixed it while I was offline. It's super confusing, as I think AfD is for newer editors. Social post aside, I think they're contributing in good faith, they just don't know what's required. I'm glad Scribe allowed me to close up their comment as I think some folks read it as "he's done, let me add my response". Star Mississippi 02:03, 14 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Didn't fix it because I can't unravel the scramble. Netherzone ( talk) 02:42, 14 March 2024 (UTC) reply
It seems like User:YordleSquire's short comment may have been plopped in the middle of someone else's longer comment (?). I may be wrong about this, because SPAs comments going in odd places. Thanks for clerking to the both of you. Netherzone ( talk) 16:08, 14 March 2024 (UTC) reply
I'm mostly offline through Sunday, apologies. Thanks @ Netherzone for moving the Arabic? !vote over as well. Star Mississippi 23:04, 14 March 2024 (UTC) reply
It looks like YordleSquire's short comment is in between two separate comments made at separate times by Scribe1791, so I don't think that's the problem. The user with the Arabic !vote actually found their way to the main AfD page and posted it there themselves. Thanks to both of you for assisting as well. Enjoy your time away Star Mississippi, I'll continue keeping an eye on that AfD as my time allows. Left guide ( talk) 23:19, 14 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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Be on the lookout

A relatively inexperienced editor innocuously accepted his AfC submission cited only to four primary source government publications and an unreliable source; likely would've been declined by an experienced reviewer. And now it looks like he's trying to sneak his next one into mainspace by WP:CANVASSING that same editor. Told you he'll try practically any trick in the bookLeft guide ( talk) 01:32, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Le sigh. I need a magic wand. Thanks for flagging @ Left guide Star Mississippi 02:26, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply
I don't want to waste effort diff digging but Greg has been warned previously about canvassing trying to disrupt an AfD nomination made on one of his articles. He recruited people who he felt would vote the way he wants and specifically wrote comment asking them to vote keep. Graywalls ( talk) 09:16, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply
He has been warned for everything unfortunately it doesn't change his behavior. Star Mississippi 14:36, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply
TBAN I suggested might be effective. No participation on Henderson family related, broadly construed. No participation on Monterey County, California related (including Carmel-by-the-Sea which is within) and perhaps no San Jose. Graywalls ( talk) 16:27, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply
@ S0091 has warned them again.
@ Graywalls I agree, but to the same extent he's not taking on your/@ Netherzone's feedback about stronger drafts I'm not sure he'll abide by it. Star Mississippi 18:46, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply
I thought it better to post something on his talk page for tracking. However, in his and the reviewer's defense regarding Messina Orchard, I have always thought places listed at NRHP were essentially automatically notable because they generally will pass AfD. On the flip side things like Draft:Mary L. Hamlin...eh..."nope" is the only word and the fact he kept resubmitting and pushing, adding frankly shitty sources was time wasting for all involved and appears to his track record. S0091 ( talk) 18:57, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Eh, I wouldn't go so far as to say automatically. Like virtually every subject notability guideline, WP:GEOFEAT says presumed which isn't the same as guaranteed. IMO, there should still be at least some effort to show real independent secondary GNG-compliant coverage, which doesn't appear to be the case for Messina Orchard. But I agree that the Mary L. Hamlin saga was something else, doesn't seem to take "no" for an answer. Left guide ( talk) 21:19, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply
@ Left guide:, The form cites quite a few good sources, usually. Although, the article shouldn't look like a mirror of the form. An article could meet notability yet be two sentences long. Superfluous contents can always be pulled out. Graywalls ( talk) 02:32, 22 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Must've been WP:Articles for deletion/Carmel Valley Historical Society; even had the audacity to bold the word keep in the requestsLeft guide ( talk) 21:19, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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AFDLand

Hello, Star Mississippi,

Did you drink a pot of coffee tonight? You sure closed a lot of AFD discussions. Wikipedia could use your help every day (or night). Liz Read! Talk! 05:14, 24 March 2024 (UTC) reply

You're most welcome. I caught the log at a good moment and I hope it makes up for when I have and am about to be offline again. The volume you process @ Liz amazes me. And I know I see only a small percentage of them. Star Mississippi 20:49, 24 March 2024 (UTC) reply

As the last blocking admin

As the blocking admin for the user, i thought to bring it to your notice that another user most definitely an UPE who has a long history of creating non-notable articles has recreated this article which you salted under another name here. Let me know if any action can be taken against the new author. Jamiebuba ( talk) 23:02, 24 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Thank you for flagging @ Jamiebuba. I've blocked the "new" account. I haven't actioned the G4 as there are so many versions and my on wiki time is limited to evaluate, although I have no doubt it's a bad faith creation. Star Mississippi 01:13, 25 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Great, thanks for your time. I appreciate. Jamiebuba ( talk) 06:24, 25 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Any time, and it looks like @ Liz handled the G4 so we should be all set. Star Mississippi 12:52, 25 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Yeah so i noticed! I have a feeling they may return. Jamiebuba ( talk) 16:24, 25 March 2024 (UTC) reply

User Doncram

I just noticed a number of 2024 User talk:Doncram talk page messages from you. Don't know if you're aware of it, but Dncram died July 9, 2023. Please see Wikipedia:Deceased Wikipedians/2023. — Maile ( talk) 23:34, 24 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi! Yes, thanks We've been using his Talk as a scratch pad to publish the drafts he left behind, and in some cases give him AfC credit. Do you think that should take place elsewhere? Star Mississippi 01:05, 25 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Ah, I see. I think you are doing it the best way. Ever since I read of Doncram's death, I've been wondering who will fill his shoes in publishing the newer listings. He was always just there, taking care of the new listings. — Maile ( talk) 01:16, 25 March 2024 (UTC) reply
User_talk:Doncram#List_of_drafts has his WIPs that we know of.
If there are others, or others you think he would have worked on,feel free to add. My interests interacted with his so I've picked up some but I know we're missing others. Star Mississippi 01:22, 25 March 2024 (UTC) reply
In my case, I knew what was out there because he had already listed them. That's what I'm talking about. Who is going to keep those new listings up to date? — Maile ( talk) 01:46, 25 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Not sure, but happy to try and dig into it. I'm going to be offline much of this week but will join when back. Star Mississippi 02:26, 25 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Priyanka Choudhary

Hello Ma'am/Sir. Do you remember me? We have met several times in DRV for the review of articles of ITV actors. Sir/Ma'am we recently submitted a DRV of the actress Priyanka Choudhary and the outcome was that the previous deletions were endorsed. Sir/Ma'am what can we do so that we get a fair chance to create an article of Priyanka Choudhary in Wikipedia? We tried all possible means by maintaining WP:CIVILity and WP:good faith. We do not want to repeat the mistakes which her earlier fans made but we do wish for a fair chance. 117.209.242.154 ( talk) 06:04, 25 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi! The consensus here Wikipedia:Deletion_review#Priyanka_Choudhary_(closed) is that Choudhary is not yet notable. Thank you for being civil and assuming good faith, but that doesn't overcome the issues raised with respect to WP:NACTOR and the sourcing required to pass it, which Choudhary currently lacks. It's challenging as a fan when you believe someone sh ould have coverage. In closing @ S_Marshall offered an option of another project. Did you think about that?
Alternatively, you can continue working on the draft and add new sourcing and consider submitting it no sooner than next year unless sourcing changes significantly. Star Mississippi 12:50, 25 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Please provide my page

I worked hard on it and you’ve not advised of why it was legal to remove it. Thank you. 75.105.37.98 ( talk) 19:47, 26 March 2024 (UTC) reply


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