This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Hey, thanks for commenting on the AfDs I listed. Actually, I was curious if you know of any other previous AfDs/precedents for student publications and such. I am personally having issues with finding specific guidance on the subject as to what is necessary for notability. I'd appreciate anything you can point out. In general, I'd like to see almost every article in the category deleted for lack of independent notability, but if a good rationale exists for keeping them, I'd like to find it. Thanks! Cquan ^{( after the beep...)} 16:23, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

I know there was at least one other AfD but I can't find it. We really need a better search but I've found some here:

• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Spark (University of Reading newspaper) (second nomination) - deleted on the second nomination
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Martlet (kept 2005)
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Campusj - kept 2007
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Epigram (newspaper) - non consensus
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Cambridge Student - keep 2005
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/WFAL - radio station, deleted
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Whalesong - merged, redirected
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Plant (newspaper) - redirected 2008
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Lumberjack (Humboldt State University) - merge

Like I said, there are more in the search if you want to dig but I think the only consensus/guideline is that there's absolutely no consensus. I agree with you in that in the vast majority of cases ( Daily Free Press is a notable exception), they're of zero interest/notability off campus but I don't think there's a strong precedent. _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 16:36, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

So much for my hope of a clear cut situation:-P. Maybe one of these days I'll get motivated enough to start a proposal for a guideline on this...until then I guess I'll just see how these play out. Thanks! Cquan ^{( after the beep...)} 17:18, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah I can't say I'm passionate enough about the topic to want to start a proposal. We'll see what happens. _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 18:46, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

the principle that I at least have been seeing is that the main general undergraduate newspaper of a major university or important independent college is notable. Beyond that, it varies. This is some acceptance of the newspapers of somewhat smaller schools. (In my view, "Spark" should have been kept. ) There is less acceptance of multiple newspapers from the same school, except for the most significant. Major literary & political magazines from major places are accepted, other magazines not usually. Radio and television stations are somewhat more difficult to establish--especially if their audience is confined to the campus--that was the rationale for deleting WFAL. DGG ( talk) 03:02, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I got bored after the first ~40 results but when I searched I was surprised at how many came up for AfD. I think it's very sumilar to the student union issue -- although those debating that blitz of student union articles were far more passionate than people have appeared to be in these cases. In some respects the newspaper is an organization, but yet WP:ORG doesn't really guide it much. I think some of it also ties into:

• community connection. Some papers are read in the community apart from campus. That often results in more external coverage which easily provides notability.
• major stories -- if a newspaper has been the center of/covered a major news story, that often gets covered by other entities.

It's when none of these have happened, when it's hard to find information on the publication that it's questionable. I think in the vast majority of cases, newspapers could be covered in the school article as a 'official voice of ' the school, but then that opens the door to 'well if newspaper is listed, what about Club X?" and it's a slippery slope. I think the Philippines ones are an interesting issue, especially the one where I noted the sourcing to Tripod. If any of that can be verified. it appears to have had a notable history from which to have an article. _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 04:07, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I think I got in over my head a bit on this...oh well. BTW, when is it appropriate to relist an AfD to get more attention, as in if there has been no substantial activity on it(and how do you do that)? Thanks. Cquan ^{( after the beep...)} 20:07, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

It does get re-listed after ~5 days if consensus hasn't been established. People will still comment. I don't think you got in over your head at all. I think there probably is good reason for trying to establish some consensus if you can get folks interested in a discussion. User:Fritzpoll did that on criminal acts and got a good discussion going. While it hasn't been confirmed as a guideline yet it has generated good discussion on the topic. If you're interested in taking that path, he'd be a good person to talk to. _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 00:21, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Yikes, I think this rubbed someone the wrong way [1]. Oh well, just that's how deletion discussions go:-P. Cquan ^{( after the beep...)} 19:12, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Restored. Sorry for the inconvenience. Cheers. -- MZMcBride ( talk) 00:11, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_gorrillas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minab_factory

Tell me if I am wrong but speedy deletion, been awhile, still active articles.

69.113.203.57 ( talk) 16:23, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Cool meeting you today. Glad to see some people aren't afraid to write some articles while admining Here is what should've been behind me speaking Image:AdminCoach.pdf and here is how Germans do academies: Image:Eröffnungsveranstaltung der Academy 2007.JPG. MBisanz ^talk 05:40, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Since your familiar with how I edit and what I've gotten myself into :D, I was wondering if you could me my new admin coach. Rlevse has had good advice, but it just doesn't seem like he and I are getting anywhere. What do you think? Dusti ^{complain/compliment} 03:39, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi Dusti. I really appreciate your asking me but right now isn't good for a number of reasons, primarily my own lack of time. I don't think I'd be able to give you the time you or any other coachee deserved since my on Wiki time is a bit scattered. My own suggestion? Continue the AfD work you were doing with Keeper and stick your toe back in to other areas that interested you before your wikibreak. Take some time to delve back in and see where you think you need help. I don't know much about your work with Rlevse but maybe ask he, I and Keeper questions when needed? I'm not saying no, I'm saying not now. That make sense? That said, I'm glad to see you back. _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 13:12, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

I understand. Let me know when your willing to take up the "challenge". Dusti ^{complain/compliment} 17:17, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Check out the last seven diffs. Wtf? Tan | 39 15:49, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

pointy much? I can't speak to the other noms but I've never had any interaction with this user before. I'm echoing what I said at yesterday's meet-up, if people are this drama fueled by Wikipedia they really need to find the log off button. _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 15:51, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#"Unrealiable prodders". -- brew crewer (yada, yada) 16:03, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

done, thanks :) ps my " personal problem" is a bit better due to a few streaks. :) _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 16:48, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

But only until your false idol gets smacked around like a rented mule next Tuesday :-) -- brew crewer (yada, yada) 20:27, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

rented mule? He's Yankee talent brought up through the farm. At least if you're going to insult the pitching staff use it for those rented (and more than willing to return) i.e. Latrine and King Worthless. In Joba We Trust _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 20:36, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, King Worthless was at his best tonight, blowing another one. It would be most ironic is he blows Joba's game in the eighth tommorow. -- brew crewer (yada, yada) 02:18, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

To be honest, I don't think they'll give him the chance. Oddly enough -- he seems better in the second game in a row rather than the first appearance. Personally I go with what my brother's boss said, he should be traded for a bagel and cheese. My initial thought was a pair of socks. _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 12:42, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Could you please withdraw the DRV on this? I don't care if you or any other admin restores the article to work on it. What a mess though! Cheers :) Gwen Gale ( talk) 02:13, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, went to bed. I'll close and restore it. Stubbification may be best. Feel free to AfD it after that if you don't think he's notable but I still don't think he's an A7 (and definitely not a G7) _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 12:41, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Hello yet again. I regretfully inform you that the bot we were using to update the user status at Wikipedia:Highly Active Users, SoxBot V, was blocked for its constant updating. With this bot out of operation, a patch is in the works. Until that patch is reviewed and accepted by the developers, some options have been presented to use as workarounds: 1) Qui monobook (not available in Internet Explorer); 2) User:Hersfold/StatusTemplate; 3) Manually updating User:StatusBot/Status/USERNAME; or 4) Not worry about it and wait for the patch to go through, which hopefully won't take long. If you have another method, you can use that, too. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me. Useight ( talk) 18:00, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for reverting this, I am still new here and really had not put much thought into "good faith". I have decided instead of tagging them for speedy deletion, unless it is blatant copyright violations or "Hey I am Mike, I am so cool.." type pages, I am going to use template messages. Click23 ( talk) 19:37, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

No worries, I don't know with any certainty that it's a notable internet cafe but I think a few more days of existence won't hurt us or the project. Good faith is a good thing, and conversation with people (rather than the vandals, as you indicate above) is usually a net positive. If you have any questions, feel free to ask me and I'll try to help. Welcome! _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 19:40, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey! Almost all the references were written by him. He's a professional writer/free lancer but this in itself doesn't confer any notability. The other sources noted are very thin and I don't think they amount to wide independent coverage or significance. Would you mind if I nominated this for AfD? Cheers, Gwen Gale ( talk) 04:56, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I said I had no problem with that from the beginning, just that it wasn't a speedy. Some published newspaper journalists are kept, some aren't. Go right ahead. _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 13:39, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

K, didn't know what you had in mind is all :) Gwen Gale ( talk) 14:32, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I didn't actually expect to get to finish clearing out the crud from the article before it got vandalised again. I personally don't agree that people are notable just for being published writers but in some cases, writers, journalists and broadcasters have been kept. I probably won't !vote because I don't have a strong opinion either way, but I don't feel strongly enough for deletion that I would take it to AfD unless that was consensus, so I didn't. _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 14:37, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey! I understand (more or less) now, I think! Yes, there is something odd going on with that article, too. Gwen Gale ( talk) 14:41, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

you mean you're not psychic! :o Bad admin! There's been something rotten in Denmark from the first time it crossed my watch list. It's not a hoax, but I don't know *what* it is. Part of me said why do I care saving an article that appears to some to be a joke, but then I think well maybe I'm missing something. I don't know of any Phillipine-based editors to ask for a closer eye. _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 15:01, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't know either :) The pith is there is almost no meaningful independent coverage about him, stuff written by him, which for a newspaper employee or free lancer is not at all notable here. Gwen Gale ( talk) 15:08, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

heh, thanks. I was wondering if my creative block reasons would be noticed, I guess they were =) xenocidic ( talk) 13:35, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I saw on Daniel Case's talk page that you discovered the project at the NYC meetup. It's good to see that we're advertised. :) Again, welcome! Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 15:19, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome. I was born and mostly raised in the area, Rockland County and I love it. Happy to help improve its coverage. I've done some work on articles in its scope, ie. Hudson River Museum before I knew of the project and plan to continue. Have a nice day! _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 17:07, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

No problem; and thanks for joining, or else I wouldn't have remembered to create that welcome template! Yeah, Rockland County's a nice place. I come from a stone throw north of there. I look foreward to seeing the articles you work on. Cheers, Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 17:18, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Are all professional athletes automatically notable? Why does a current team roster belong in Wikipedia? -- BobBagwill ( talk) 17:22, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

per WP:ATHLETE, which is generally accepted, "Competitors and coaches who have competed in a fully professional league, or a competition of equivalent standing in a non-league sport such as swimming, golf or tennis." Playing for a national team is certainly an assertion of notability. If you disagree, you're more than welcome to take them to AfD, but I don't expect they'd be deleted as sources can most certainly be found. _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 17:25, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

My advice is to not try too hard on these--I think you will find the results don;t repay the work. I used to try , also, till I gave up on finding anything that people would think significant. DGG ( talk) 17:47, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Ed Biano or Elizabeth Wiatt. If it's the former, all I wanted out of it was trying to sort out the vandalism to figure out what the article was supposed to be about. I just knew it wasn't an A7 and certainly was not a G7, I didn't think there was anything wrong with giving it a 5 day chance. If anything I swear I've turned more inclusionist lately. If it's the latter, I agree it's weak and I don't intend to put any more work into it. Have a good day! _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 17:50, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I am sorry the link you've provided is invalid. YOUR REFERENCES ARE NOT UP TO PAR. Jjonjonjon ( talk) 03:36, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I just wanted to let you know that I have added some additional evidence to the report. The additional evidence is just a whole load of observations I have witnessed over the last day or so but they link many of the suspected sockpuppets together so that's why I added it. Also thank you for filing the report as I've been involved with the article pretty much since it's third creation and well, I was afraid (well not "afraid" afraid :D) what would happen if I called the duck a duck :) Cheers AngelOfSadness talk 11:49, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, your information was a lot more comprehensive. I only got involved when I saw someone had tagged it for speedy and noticed that it was also up for AfD. Something was rotten indeed, coupled then with the above comment from the newest potential puppet. I really don't understand what people think they have to gain from puppeting because it's blatantly obvious all too often. And yes, ducks often squeal when stepped on. _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 14:01, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Sure even on the Afd itself, I had to use the {{notaballot}} for the first time ever and even with that in place, more suspected sockpuppets !voted. It's best to remember that whatever they do in future, cannot undo the stuff they have already done i.e. as the account creation and !voting. I mean not even Afd debates related to even Britney Spears gets that much attention from new accounts and that girl is on the news pretty much everyday unlike Heather Dylan. But I do find it strange that so many new accounts said "we're working with other editors to improve it" even though that was their very first edit. But I think there could be good hand, bad hand socks aswell but only the sockpuppet report can confirm that at this point. AngelOfSadness talk 14:11, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I just had a look at Jjon's contribs to clean up more crap and found this charming comment. I don't think he's here for any productive contributions. His next negative contribution is going to earn him a temporary block because he's been warned more than sufficiently. It's ridiculous. I don't get too involved with socks, User:Boomgaylove was really the only one I dealt with before directly, although Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michael L. Vincent was another sock farm of an SPA. The wost of it was removed but *ugh*! I don't get it -- is there that much reward in it? _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 14:19, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

At first, he seemed ok but then all of a sudden something snapped in him as he even vandalised the article which he created. Unfortunately I have had a lot of experience with sockpuppets but I have never really interacted with single purpose kind. The only thing I can think of is that they create multiple accounts, probably thinking it will outweigh the opposing voters by a few votes, all appearing to be different to make it seem like they are giving different opinions but are really just saying the same thing and this might change the minds of a few people. My theory, is that they do this just to prove a point, and in the Heather Dylan situation, to prove that no one ever checks the references thus probably to prove the unreliabilty of Wikipedia in general. AngelOfSadness talk 14:30, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Aw, I just looked and saw you added me to the sockpuppet list, I'm not one of them! The reason for my reverse of my own post is because I added some gadgets like tickle or something like that, and it marked my edit as vandalism.I unchecked these in my preferences now because I'mnot at all familiar with them.. But I thought you had marked it as vandalism and undid it. I'm sorry. I have nothing to do with these puppets! I want the page deleted! Thank you, please reply or take me off. I've been on wiki for awhile. Kerrylionberry ( talk) 04:54, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Coupled with the information posted by another editor, I'm going to leave it stand. If you're found to be uninvolved, it will be fine. _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 13:58, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Alright. I guess next time I shouldn't play around with the gadgets on the preferences. And the gdget is called twinkle not tickle. haha I just noticed that. But Anyways I'm not going to touch those again until I know what I'm doing..look where it got me..on everyones bad side When only I was trying to help out around here. This whole Heather Dylan ordeal is making me give second thoughts on being on the wikipedia site. Some people just have to ruin it for others.. :( Kerrylionberry ( talk) 20:06, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for closing the AfD discussion on Michael J. Padilla. I realised my mistake (after the fact, of course) -- when searching to confirm notability on the subject (which I always do before putting an article up), I searched for "Michael J. Padilla" and not "Michael Padilla." Next time, I will know to do searches without middle initials. I appreciate your input in this AfD discussion. :) Ecoleetage ( talk) 12:26, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

No worries, I think a lot of times people forget to check on naming variations. Also I'm not too sure how often that happens in Portuguese but it's fairly common in English for people to be known variously as, for example, Michael, Mike, Mickey, Mike... and it never hurts to check the variations with a keyword, science in this case. _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 14:03, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I appreciate your advice and understanding.

A luta continua Ecoleetage ( talk) 20:31, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

FWIW, it's not at all clear that this article was originally an autobiography (though the current edit appears to be one). It was created as a stub by an anonymous editor in 2005. Dppowell ( talk) 05:42, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree but it was headed down that path now and worth a warning. The issue is, she is probably notable but when autobiographies get in the mix it gets even more convoluted. Thanks for the heads up! _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 13:59, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I think that it is best to WP:AGF editors that edit their own articles. WP:COI seems more suited to corporations than to individuals. 69.140.152.55 ( talk) 22:51, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi there. With the auto-assessments I can also do classes, list, B, GA, ect. Should I run those as well or just stick with stub and start? Lemme know here; I'll watch your page. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 01:44, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Wow, that would be great. We don't have our own assessment criteria yet and have accepted other projects' grading of articles so that suits our needs perfectly. I wasn't sure how a bot would handle class so I decided to keep it simple. Thanks again! _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 01:46, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Okay, it should run tomorrow around 2 PM EST, there are around 700 stubs left to do and then I'll be back on the computer (1028 stubs tagged as of right now). Cheers. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 01:48, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Just so you know I have to do a fix. Right under Category:Museum stubs is Category:Zoo stubs. After reading the project page again you guys don't do zoos. I'll remove those. Sorry for the inconvenience. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 01:51, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Whenever you have the chance to run it is fine. I'm likely to be on and off line tomorrow but should be around. I didn't realise zoo stubs was still under there, I thought we fixed all of that. Apologies. _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 01:54, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

The zoo issue should be finsihed up in about 10 minutes. I'm just happy it wasn't a 3,000 page category to fix. :) §hep • ¡Talk to me! 02:02, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Do art galleries fall under WP:MUSEUMS? For example do I need to filter: Category:Art museums and galleries in the United Kingdom stubs to remove any titles that contain gallery within them? §hep • ¡Talk to me! 16:18, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Galleries are within the scope of our project. Luckily there aren't too many of them with articles that aren't spam so we don't have too many to work on, but they are within our scope. Thanks! _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 16:54, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Awesome! Everything should be done now. I've assessed everything I can wihout reading the articles. If you ever need anything else feel free to stop by my page! §hep • ¡Talk to me! 16:56, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I definitely will. Thanks so much for your help! _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 17:06, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey, I appreciated your kind words. I decided to return and give it another go. Thanks for your support and friendship. Ecoleetage ( talk) 15:31, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

welcome back! _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 16:05, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! :) Ecoleetage ( talk) 17:37, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Let me get back to you on that, please, if that is possible. I am heading out for the weekend and may not be online much. Thank you for thinking of me! Ecoleetage ( talk) 01:31, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I am avoiding the Luso version of Wikipedia -- I need to work on my English, which is why I am here. Oh, damn, my ride is here -- need to slide off. Thanks again! Ecoleetage ( talk) 01:40, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Hello! I put up the English translation of that article. It needs wikifying, to be certain. Thanks, again, for thinking of me! Ecoleetage ( talk) 11:02, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Star Mississippi/Archives/2008, for participating in my recent RfA, which recently passed with 81 support and 1 neutral !votes. I appreciate all the support and constructive criticism offered in my RfA and I thank you for taking the time to !vote in my nomination. I feel so honoured to be trusted by so many of you and please, if you have any advice, comments or complaints about my actions as an administrator, leave a note on my talk page. I would also like to thank Acalamari, Rlevse and Nishkid64, for their nomination statements. Thank you again. AngelOfSadness talk 23:34, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

On 9 June, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Lake Placid Winter Olympic Museum, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

-- Bedford ^Pray 01:44, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

woohoo, had a feeling when some random edits to the article started to happen that it might be appearing somewhere. Thanks! _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 03:00, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I made a page on Wikipedia, but it was gotten rid of.

I would like it back. I have credible sources. I can SO prove it!

Inconvienience, I am sorry for very much. Please, it would mean much.

I will reference. Please undelete it. Thank you very, very much!

IJustDiedInYourArms ( talk) 23:31, 9 June 2008 (UTC)IJustDiedInYourArms

You definitely get an A for creativity. The issue with Summer Bowling was not a lack of references but a lack of notability perWikipedia's standards. If you think you can write an article that meets those standards, I suggest creating it in your sandbox, for example at User:IJustDiedInYourArms/Summer Bowling with sources and it can then be moved back to main space if it's notable. How does that sound? I'm happy to give you the content to work with, if you'd like. PS: Love the song :) _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 01:00, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi,

I am contacting you concerning the deletion of the Cera Products, CeraSport and CeraLyte pages from Wikipedia. I am fairly new to wikipedia and realize that I may have made errors when first posting pages to the site. Since then I have contacted many of the admins who have edited or deleted my posts with different amounts of success. I have made every attempt to edit the pages I posted to meet the wiki guidelines. I have even gone so far as to mimick the posts of others who have similar pages. The cera pages were crafted to mirror the posts of Gatorade, Poweraid and other sport drink pages. I am not sure why Cera's pages are being singled out for being advertising when the pages I was creating were being taken from the format of these sport drink pages.

I am not trying to cause any issues. I have inquired through the talk pages to each admin who has taken my pages down. One in particular was very helpful and made suggestions to changes that resulted in the post being active for weeks, only to have another editor come along and tag the post as blatent advertising. I am not sure where to go from here.

In the past couple of days another person has joined Wikipedia and has tried to repost Cera pages. Having just joined he was not aware of the editing rules that go along with making pages on the site. I am asking that you reconsider the pages that were pulled. I will supply the copy to an editor and ask them to craft the pages if that would be acceptable. They could strip out anything deemed unacceptable. I am just asking for the same consideration that is afforded to the other sport drink pages on this site. We are not asking for anything else but the chance to post our companies story and product history. We have many articles that back up the information on our posts and can link these in the page.

Please contact me with your suggestions and any insite that you can give me on going forward with the recreation of pages.

Thanks and I eagerly await your reply. (Bjanis) Bjanis ( talk) 04:04, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Bjanis. Thanks for the note. The most important thing to consider is that not every company (in a particular field or anywhere) is worthy of a Wikipedia article. Just because other articles exist is not a reason for another one to be created. Some companies are more notable than others according to coverage in reliable sources. Remember that Wikipedia is not a company/product listing. What I'd suggest is that you or the other editor re-create the articles in your own userspace, for example at User:Bjanis/Cera Products. You can work on the article there and then apply to have it reinstated through deletion review where uninvolved editors will weigh in on whether it's notable enough to have a Wikipedia article. Does that make sense? I hope it helps, please let me know if you have any other questions

Typical of someone with an abnormally low IQ as myself, I'm having a hard time figuring out my Twinkle. My first problem: It watchlists all the articles where I revert vandalism and the talkpage of its accompanying vandal. I unsuccessfully tried the modifying instructions at Wikipedia:WikiProject User scripts/Scripts/Twinkle/doc. Would you know how to fix this? -- brew crewer (yada, yada) 15:20, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry for my belated response, I was out for the last few days. Anyway, in regard to my TW problems, all the boxes at "my preferences" were unchecked for as long as I remember, so I don't think the solution lies there. Any other suggestions? Sorry to bother you (please don't block me :-)). -- brew crewer (yada, yada) 04:22, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, I have no idea. Sorry! Maybe ask Aza? I'm not really that technically minded and, touch wood, it hasn't done anything weird for me. PS: The nerve of you being out. Don't you know every waking minute is meant to be on wiki? :p _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 13:01, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I had begun writing you here, when I saw your second message in my talk. That's why I preferred to move my answer from here to there. → Spiritia 16:10, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

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Hi,

Just thought I might get your views on where the line in the sand is drawn.

As per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Oak Bay Police Department I am somewhat perplexed by the split personality of the wikipedia community on what is notable, encyclopedic, etc.

Mirco stubs like the initial delete proposal version of Oak Bay Police Department are everywhere in Wikipedia. The wikipedia community recent agreed to create very likely millions more of them. I argued against it but . . .

So, I then try to be consistent and retain Oak Bay Police Department, only to get nudged back the other way!

I see a potential for a major problem within Wikipedia brewing here.

Cheers.

Peet Ern ( talk) 01:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi,

Just thought I might get your views on where the line in the sand is drawn.

As per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Oak Bay Police Department I am somewhat perplexed by the split personality of the wikipedia community on what is notable, encyclopedic, etc.

Mirco stubs like the initial delete proposal version of Oak Bay Police Department are everywhere in Wikipedia. The wikipedia community recent agreed to create very likely millions more of them. I argued against it but . . .

So, I then try to be consistent and retain Oak Bay Police Department, only to get nudged back the other way!

I see a potential for a major problem within Wikipedia brewing here.

Cheers.

Peet Ern ( talk) 01:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Pee Tern. Thanks for the note. Basically populated locales (city, town, or what have you based on local terminology) are inherently notable so long as their existence can be verified. There's no hard and fast rule about this, it's more or less per established consensus over time and somewhat discussd at Wikipedia:Notability (Places and transportation) and on its talk page. City agencies or small organizations such as fire, police departments are rarely notable because they're of little significance, notability outside the immediate radius. See WP:ORG for that. It's not so much a problem brewing as a fairly established semi-consensus, as you can somewhat see in the links I gave in the AfD. And while it's just an essay. other stuff exists is somewhat accepted -- it's not a reason to keep or delete another one. You'll have ab=n uphill battle to keep this one, but don't let it deter you. FWIW I didn't !vote on the bot created articles. Am happy to answer any other questions you may have. _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 01:42, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for getting back to me. I still find it confusing. Peet Ern ( talk) 02:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

That is totally true, and indicative of nothing other than the state of Wiki, its guidelines and policies. _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 02:46, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

You just blocked Anoneezy moments before I was going to click the button. He's lucky you got there first and gave him a more conservative block than I was going to do. I was going to indef block as vandalism-only. Useight ( talk) 03:13, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Feel free to up it if you disagree, I won't mind. I'm a fairly new admin so tend to be conservative on the blocks as I'm still learning the more grey areas. Why is it that blatant is so much easier? :) _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 03:17, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand your last sentence, perhaps you forgot to add a word? Anyway, perhaps I'm just a little more liberal in giving the indef block, just a different style, I guess. Based on his contribs, he began by adding non-notable people to an article, which isn't that bad of vandalism, but then he started adding disparaging remarks about other people which is definitely worse. However, there is worse vandalism out there than what he did, so perhaps an indef block would've been a bit harse. I don't know, either way is fine. Useight ( talk) 03:23, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Okay, now I got that last sentence, you were referring to blatant vandalism. Got it. Useight ( talk) 03:24, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Good ESP! I left out 'cases' as in 'blatant cases' but yes, you got the gist of it. I guess my theory is that if they're a good editor, a short block will let them know their actions are not tolerated. If they're bad faith, well then they'll soon go back to their old tricks and get blocked longer. Personally I wsh there were more of the former. _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 03:31, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

True, true. Useight ( talk) 03:39, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

maybe in the morning the spammers will all go away? ;) _{TravellingCari} ^{the Busy Bee} 03:40, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi. A page I worked very hard to create, Astrocom, was apparently speedy deleted last evening. Astrocom is an interesting Minneapolis-based company which has been around since 1968 and been through acquisitions, going public, and being taken private again.

I understand that Wikipedia is encyclopedic and not for marketing and advertising, and that wasn't the purpose of the page. If there was specific language that appeared to be promotional, that was unintentional and I will happily change.

I feel entirely justified in adding this page, however, due to the large number of similar companies that are already listed on Wikipedia, including:

Cisco Systems Citrix Systems Barracuda Networks Nortel Foundry Networks Radware Coyote Point Systems KEMP Technologies Zeus Technology

I tried to write the Astrocom page in a similar style to these accepted pages so that it would be encyclopedic and not "marketing."

Please let me know how we can get this page restored.

Thank you!

````Tomcat66_g500 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tomcat66 g500 ( talk • contribs) 13:03, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi Tomcat, you need to find evidence of what Astrocom has done that has been discussed in reliable secondary sources. Not what Astrocom has said about itself. I suggest recreating it in your userspace, for example at User:Tomcat66 g500/Astrocom and letting me know when you're done. If I still disagree that it is suitable to bring back to main space, I'll help you bring it through deletion review where the community can judge. Does that help? <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 13:10, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Travellingcari for the quick response. I did as you suggsted, the page is now at User:Tomcat66 g500/Astrocom. I've added some article links; I can certainly find more but they would be older. Would that be helpful? And again, it wasn't my intention to write a "marketing" page - if there is specific language that seems inappropriate in this regard, please let me know and I'll change it! Tomcat66 g500 ( talk) 14:05, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Good job. Main concerns I have are the detailed product listings/description. That's the sort of information better found on a company's website as it's where a person would go to learn specifically about a particular product and its users. In an encyclopedia, I think readers would want to learn more about the company, its history and an overview of the products it provides. With regard to sourcing, I found this in Google News. Some of it is press releases and there may be some false positives, but I think that might help you flesh out the article a little. The date of the articles don't matter as much because they help the reader learn more about it. Does that make snese? I'm happy to help. You're definitely on the right track with this, keep working on it and I will be happy to move it back to main space when you're done and have added sources. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 14:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the helpful feedback. I shortened up the products section and made it very descriptive -- I think some description of products is relevant to understanding the company, but I understand the concerns you raised. I originally modeled this product section after the F5 Networks page; I appreciate the importance of the content guidelines that Wikipedia has established, just want them applied uniformly. I also added links to several more news articles. Please let me know if User:Tomcat66 g500/Astrocom is ready for the main space! Tomcat66 g500 ( talk) 15:38, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Very good work! I think the only remaining concern is footnotes. I see, for example, you used an article entitled "Astrocom Corporation Signs Distribution Agreement with Ingram Micro to Supply the Canadian Value Added Reseller Channel (HighBeam Research, March 2003)" as a source but it's not necessarily clear without footnotes to know what part of the article that references. Such footnotes are especially important in terms of controversial information and or information likely to be challened, as is better explained in WP:CITE. You can see an example of footnotes on Gatorade, which was the first company article I can think of. That said, we have a tag for lacking citations and that's not a reason to keep it from main space, you've done a great job. Can you see the difference between that and the article that I originally deleted? I hope so. Please feel free to let me know if you have any more questions. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 15:55, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I appreciate the lesson - writing for Wikipedia is an art form. I will take a look at the footnote issue also. 71.210.137.20 ( talk) 17:44, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Footnotes and proper categories added. Is the page in good shape now? Tomcat66 g500 ( talk) 18:29, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Good timing, I was just coming to you to leave a note. Very good shape. I just switched two seconds since it's current practices that refs come before external links -- but that's not easy to know without having done so before you did a great job witih that. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 18:31, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Hiya, just an FYI re: this comment. Not sure s/he's capable of that. IP is currently blocked for 12 hours from spam on the second account they created when the main one was blocked. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 19:22, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I've updated the message to reflect this. -- Selket <sup>Talk</sup> 19:27, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

This article was deleted for copyright infringement. I did indeed copy it nearly word for word from Gettysburg College's website, but I'm the online content editor for the college. I didn't see much point in rewriting our own material just for the sake of making it different. Obviously, I'm not terrifically knowledgeable about Wikipedia procedures. What should be my next step?

Bullets1832 ( talk) 19:37, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

bullets 1832

TCari and bullets, this may help, or at least, it gives you links to what may help. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:43, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for that, Keeper. I'll leave bullets information on his/her talk page. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 19:53, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

My apologies for screwing up my username and apparently posting content to the page that led the page patroller to tag it for speedy deletion. I'll confess to being new at this. As you can see I've fixed my username. I hope that you will reconsider deleting the page, or at least allowing me to make some changes that will make the page suitable.

I'm the communictaions director at the hospital in question. I noticed recently that someone had started a page on us. So I figured I could improve it with some basic facts about the hospital. I wanted to go back and add a picture. Many other hospitals have similar pages. Although I can't see what I wrote any more, I deliberately tried to stay away from anything that could be construed as fluff because I knew that marketing copy is prohibited.

Regarding the copyright violation from http://svhealthcare.org/about-us/history/ I wrote the original copy, which is actually drawn from the book referenced at the bottom of the page. So, it didn't occur to me that I was violating copyright, since it was my writing to start with. What I posted was certainly not taken word for word from that page. It's far shorter, is more of a summary, and I think it likely would fall within fair use guidelines. However, in hindsight that section actually should cite the same book referenced at the bottom of the page, not the website.

Again, I'm really sorry for stepping in it. I'm sure you deal with this daily. I hope I get some credit for honesty.

MichaelKrobinson ( talk) 21:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Mr. Robinson. Thanks for the note. You do get credot and appreciation for honesty. I restored the article to your own workspace User:MichaelKrobinson/Southwestern Vermont Medical Center where I suggest you work on it. In order to use the text verbatim, you'll need to have the content released. However since the tone of a company's website is often not appropriate for an encyclopedic article, you might consider re-writing it with information on what reliable sources have to say about the hospital. There appears to be a lot of information about the hospital and while some is concerned with incidents that happened at the hospital, there is more than enough from which to write an article. I suggest you work on it as you have time in your userspace (where I put it) and then when you thnk it's done, I'm happy to look at it and suggest what else might need to be done. As you can see in the discussion above re: Astrocom, I'm happy to try and help. I'll be headed off line shortly but will be back on line later and tomorrow. Happy to answer any questions, hope this helps. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 21:07, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Travellingcari, thanks for the help. I'm happy to work on the page. I have a couple of questions.

1. what's required in getting content released?
2. I'm a little confused about your comment regarding tone. The post doesn't seem too much like a corporate piece to me. That said, I'll work it over some more today and add additional references that point to other sources beside the hospital website. Do you think additional references will help overcome the sense that this article has too much of a marketing tone?

MichaelKrobinson ( talk) 12:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi! With regard to getting permission go use your existing text, the best resource is probably Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials or User:Moonriddengirl/carticle. I'm not intimately familiar with the procedure but am happy to try and point you in the right direction if you have more questions. As far as promotional, it's more about listing what it does. If someone were going for treatment at the hospital they'd want to know programs and specialties -- not so much in an encyclopedia. Here people might want to know about the history -- was it the first? is it recognized (by newspapers, scholarly sources?) for some of its programs. While I'm sure it's a smaller facility, it might help to look at Hudson River State Hospital, for example, or other hospital articles to see the type of material that's discussed. Also for a less-historic based article, see Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center. I'd like to give you better examples but a random sample of articles in Category:Hospitals in New York made me realize what a sad state hospital articles are in. Does this help? Feel free to ask me more questions. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 16:31, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll have a look at the sources you've suggested. I had to laugh at your comment on other hospital articles. I worked on the page after posting the earlier questions. It's much better verified now. I'd be grateful for some comments on it.

MichaelKrobinson ( talk) 19:37, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I'll take a look at it. You might also want to alert WP:DINO, if you haven't already. bibliomaniac 1 5 22:33, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Really? First of all that is a page for memebers of a law enforcement group who have similar intrests as me in keeping such articles. Second just because you don't agree with my opinion on the article don't go looking for thigs that MIGHT be wrong just to call me on it. If memebers of that group supported that article it's because they wanted to not because I told them too, trust me I'm not that influential. Your just unhappy because my message made people aware of the Afd who might want to keep the article you want deleted. Do me a favor, and do not send me any more messages EMT1871 ( talk) 11:44, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Not at all unhappy, your comment doesn't seem to have brought that many people. It has no bearing on what I think, canvassing is not permitted on Wikipedia and it was someone from your own group who called you out on it at the AfD. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 13:23, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

whene’er i travel:

emergency services

i find important.

69.140.152.55 ( talk) 19:09, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

agree to disagree there. Small town police departments are important for their residents but they're not encyclopedially notable. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 19:15, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

But give him credit for a decent haiku. I'm still caught in a loop over "notably non-notable" though - might have to reboot my brain Fritzpoll ( talk) 19:41, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh absolutely. 69.140 and I have had some good discussions since our activity first intersected. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 20:17, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

User talk:Babaloo40 ( talk · contribs) appears to be admitting that they are Hearsomeinfo ( talk · contribs), who you just blocked for spamming. See their talk page, or my talk page. Relates to something called Sentry Basic and related products. Thanks. Delicious carbuncle ( talk) 16:00, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, blocked and SSP filed. I hadn't refreshed the watchlist recently enough to catch the re-creation. I salted the main one, will salt the others as well if necessary. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 16:09, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Better than a white-list would be a new rule that if ClueBot sees somebody {{subst:copyvio}} into a page (which inserts {{copyviocore}}), then the {{copyviocore}} should be kept. Whether to revert the blanking and keep the {{copyviocore}}, or to not revert at all, is a policy decision that I'm not competent to make. 69.140.152.55 ( talk) 17:57, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually I think that's a very good idea. I wonder if it's technically feasible. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 18:18, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

This is Flexlink. Watchlist the new user with me? Excellent. We'll see how it goes... Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 01:41, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Done, thanks for the heads up. I know you're usually offline at the weekend so I'll try to help him this weekend when I'm not packing. Enjoy yours. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 01:43, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Excellent! I'm offline in a bit, probably online for a coupla hours in the am, then gone again til monday. Anything you can do to "help" this user would be appreciated by me (and probably him too:-) See you M-am! 01:46, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah I'm offline tomorrow. Actually going to the Zoo. Break from packing and de-tox following a long week. As you can see from the creativity above, I'm happy to try and help those who want to learn. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 01:48, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

• Ping! xenocidic ( talk) 02:08, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Just a reminder for you to check out the Sourcing Adjudication board proposal, and offer your opinion if you have not already done so. 69.140.152.55 ( talk) 06:36, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

On 15 June, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Timexpo Museum, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

-- Maxim <sub>(talk)</sub> 14:08, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

woohoo, thanks! <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 19:30, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up, but I know. I saw the AfD first, then searched for evidence of notability but couldn't find any, so thought I'd fish for evidence from group members on the talk page. They didn't seem to have much of an idea what references are suitable, so they may have some without knowing it. If I could be bothered I'd post on their website's forum and ask, I find that's the surest way to find sources. Ryan Paddy ( talk) 02:05, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

are not necessarily ' nonsense'. I'd already declined the speedy once and listed it for translation. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 17:26, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

True, but in this case close enough. I have listed it as "blatant advertising" instead, please see Talk:Antalyada emlak. Plrk ( talk) 17:36, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

fair enough, I tend to wait for a translation, but I won't decline the speedy this time. Let someone else comment on it. Thanks for letting me know. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 17:38, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Ironically, someone else deleted it as patent nonsense. Plrk ( talk) 17:39, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Saw that, their choice. I took care of the talk page -- thanks for tagging that since it probably would have been missed. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 17:41, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I take great care of my watchlisted pages :) Plrk ( talk) 17:42, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

How the Hades did THAT happen??? -  CobaltBlueTony™  <sub>talk</sub> 17:43, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

On 16 June, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article New York City Police Museum, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Nice pic! -- Gatoclass ( talk) 17:48, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm over here for a change, my talkpage has gone batshit insane today (like it's any different any other day, I know..) I had a warm fuzzy smile on my face looking back at the "formality" in which we were discussing merge/redirects and AFD - who'd a thunk a mere 4 months later you'd have posted to my talk over 200 times (you admin, you...). I've watchlisted the Carmelo afd, I think I'm gonna go !vote there...and thanks for digging up those ancient diffs - doesn't February feel like eons ago? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:06, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

:) You had good foresight when you left me a message. I'm editing your neck of the woods -- sorta -- today. North Dakota Heritage Center. It's on CNN.com today and I decided it needed some loving. Was actually intending to work on the Nevada State Museum but my brain hurts and I'd much rather discuss dinos. Far more fun. On another note, this scares me, as does this. Sabathia in NY? No thanks <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 19:14, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

That's what happens when you don't play baseball correctly (my condolences, however). -- brew crewer (yada, yada) 01:32, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh I agree. There was an uproar when the A's were playing someone in interleague and their pitcher was hurt as well. I think there's too much risk of injury and I see no reason for a DH in one league and none in the other. It just makes no sense whatsoever to me. Thought of you earlier when there was something about crewing on the news. I doubt that has anything to do with your username either, but I see "you" as crewing in a Brewers' jersey. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 01:35, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

It's really crazy! These weirdos at the National League have this misconception that pitchers can actually do something else besides pitch. Get this - some even maintain that every once in a while a pitcher should actually have to swing and hit a ball. Are these people nuts? -- brew crewer (yada, yada) 01:43, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

• thwaps* Of course it's crazy, just like the idea that even outfielders need to take their turn at pitching from time to time. My god's honest theory is a) there's a reason these people are pitchers and due to time training as pitchers they haven't generally practiced hitting and may not have ever hit an ML fastball and b) they're paid too much to risk injuries that can be avoided. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 01:51, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Poor Professor Medhat... Tan | 39 21:24, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I saw. Half of me is tempted to userfy and work on it, but in the grand scheme, I don't have the time or the interest. I think he would have passed WP:PROF but it's not worth it at the moment. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 01:14, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Sure. What I did effectively prevents any non-admin user to access the history of the page beyond your tag. Before you put that up, the page contained the draft of the spam article so it's trivial for a new user (or, in this case, the same user under a new name) to go to that revision and copy-paste the content in order to create a fresh copy of the spam article. Of course, if said user is a bit motivated, this is easy to go around but chances are it's an additional hurdle to clear. Pascal.Tesson ( talk) 02:12, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Hadn't realized you'd been handed them mop. I suppose you can now add the above to your bag of tricks! Cheers, Pascal.Tesson ( talk) 02:20, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Why sure, I'd love to help you with your article expansion project. Just shoot me a couple :). Dusti <sup>SPEAK!!</sup> 04:07, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

My interests are varied. Just give me a random article or two and I'll work with it and see what I can do. Also, lemme know what you think should be done to them (or thoughts for them). Thanks, Dusti <sup>SPEAK!!</sup> 17:48, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

DING!!!! Talk page!!! Dusti <sup>SPEAK!!</sup> 20:29, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I see you removed the design. It was a copy and paste from the website, but I noted that. I'm not sure if its allowed or not, is it still considered plagarism even thought stated that I copied it from the website? Dusti <sup>SPEAK!!</sup> 21:10, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Short answer, yes. I'm headed off line now, will give you more info tonight when I'm back online. Sent you an e-mail on it too. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 21:25, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Basically the answer with copyright violations is that you can't lift anyone's text word-for-word even if you cite the source. You need to, for lack of a better term, "put it in your own words." You can describe the museum's design in your own words using the information from the website. Does that make sense? <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 01:27, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok, that makes sense. I felt like it might turn out that way.... Dusti <sup>SPEAK!!</sup> 01:33, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

§hep • ¡Talk to me! 17:29, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi there, please don't delete the templates without discussion. I know that he is notable but somebody has tagged it and know it should be discussed. Maybe you can improve this article Kevin Pezzoni I don't know nothing about football. Thank you Sebastian scha. ( talk) 02:03, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion tags can be deleted by anyone except the article's creator. As an admin I assessed the article and found that it does not meet the speedy criteria because it asserts notability. He is a professional football player. If you disagree, you need to take it to AfD, but not knowing about football is not a reason to delete. Please let me know if you have any questions. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 02:13, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry I'm not a native tongue, I think he is notable and I didn't know that anybody can delete the speedy tags. Sorry again, I was a little bit pi****d because your deletion created an edit conflict. *g* So everything is fine, nice day Sebastian scha. ( talk) 02:16, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Basically, we agree. Neither of us think he should be deleted. I'd offer to explain in German but your English is far better than my German so I'll leave it at that. I think guten tag is a bit un timely but I don't remember how to say goodnight. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 02:19, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I only have a little bit left till I log off. I'd like to know if you wouldn't mind just using a few of the sources you found to fix the article. Lets put a little effort into cleanup, and bring that back to the afd. Sound good? — <sub>Maggot</sub> <sup>Syn</sup> 04:21, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

The deletion of the above mentioned article is a classical example of arbitrary and arrogant use of power. The listing, relisting and subsequent deletion of the article, all smell of premeditated and biased fixation on deletion. I am not going to ask for the restoration of the article, if it is, Wikipedia gains, if not, Wikipedia loses a very important encyclopedic material in the Nigerian literary axis. Bye and have a very good day. Ijele ( talk) 13:08, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

The consensus is was that he was not suitably notable per Wikipedia guidelines. Notability has no relation to where the person is from. If you'd like a copy of the article to work on in your own userspace, I'm happy to provide it. Please note that bringing it back to mainspace as it was will only lead to it being immediately re-deleted and your being warned for doing so. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the</sup>

Busy Bee 13:35, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Which consensus? What consensus? a group of low level uninformed editors, who couldn't muster enough arguement for deletion in five days and had to relist. and then you had to save them embarasements by deleting the article. Like I said before, wikipedia is the ultimate looser. May be I should start to inform people at this end, about the quality of editors running things in Wikipedia. Bye. Ijele ( talk) 15:13, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Please be aware of Wikipedia's policies on civility and personal attacks. If you disagree with the consensus, you're free to propose it be restored at deletion review. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 15:27, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I dont care, the quality of Editing and Administration in Wikipedia has taken a serious dive downwards, the recent episode is an eye opener, it is my duty to let Nigerians know that. Ijele ( talk) 16:28, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't think either Tcari or I care what you tell your fellow Nigerians. However, we will persist in enforcing Wikipedia policy. Tan | 39 16:30, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, Tan. Ijele, I already showed you the proper forum for pursuing this discussion if you want the article restored. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 17:11, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I am ready to close this SSP report which you filed, but I would like you first to block the other user accounts. It's clear from contribs that they are all sockpuppets or single-use accounts. Not being an admin I can't do it myself, but if anyone bothers you, tell them that an uninvolved user confirmed your opinion. After you do the blocks, close the SSP by putting {{SSPa}} at the top of the page. Thank you. Yechiel ( Shalom) 14:48, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

If you want I'll go ask Peter, but basically do the following:

1. Click "block log" for each user on the list. If there is already a block on that user, go back and continue to the next user.
2. If the user is not blocked, click "block user" and set the expiry time for "indefinite."

It's a mindless job that should take all of three minutes. I would do it myself, but I'm not an admin. Yechiel ( Shalom) 17:17, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I understand. If contributions strongly suggest that the users are sockpuppets, then checkuser is not necessary. Basically, if any of the users had any significant article edits outside the AFD I might have second thoughts, but as it stands these are definitely single-use accounts. The quick edits to userpages in order to make a blue-linked username is also a common trick of experienced sockpuppeteers. Yechiel ( Shalom) 17:26, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Hello Travellingcari. I have changed my mind. Thank you for including some important sources. The article Larry Torres passes WP:ACADEMIC.

I think you are an interesting person. I hope we will meet again in future. Regards, Masterpiece2000 ( talk) 02:28, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I respected your opinion once you made it clear where you were coming from and I understood it. Wikipedia would be boring if we all agreed on everything and to be fair, the article wasn't in good shape at first. I couldn't source it from home because I use Wikicite and that doesn't run on a Mac so I was happy to try and clean it up once I got access to a PC. I look forward to working with you on future articles as well. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 02:35, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply. Regards, Masterpiece2000 ( talk) 02:39, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey there, tcari. I don't usually use Wiki for "chatty" things (that's what IM is for, right), but I was just browsing through your blog (because I saw you take the link down) and saw the Gettysburg pics. Wasn't that park terrific? Last fall I did a cross-country solo motorcycle trip, and stopped in a lot of historical places... here's a snippet of an email I had sent, describing going on the tour (my parents came with):

On Tuesday morning (Oct. 17), my parents and I left at 6:15am for Gettysburg, PA. It was a relatively nice 8-hour drive, so we rolled in around 2:30 - and all the last bus tours had just left. We had no idea where to go to start looking around; the sheer number of monuments, statues, obelisks, and other historical markers literally littering the fields was too daunting of a task to just roll up to one of them and start reading. After a couple stops, we found ourselves hiring a personal guide, who would drive our car for us to various places. This ended up being quite possibly the highlight of the trip. The guide was FASCINATING. He'd take us out to some field, and steer us across some grassy knoll to a certain spot, talking all the while: "Okay, Tom, Dan, now I showed you earlier about how the Confederates had taken up position between that stone barn and that copse of trees, right? Now, see that rock? That's where Union General Meade was taking command. Pickett then led his men through this field and towards that hill...." My dad and I, and to a lesser extent my mother, were wide-eyed and full of questions the entire time. Anyone who EVER goes to Gettysburg should take this sort of tour, and I have this guy's number if any of you ever actually end up there.

That night we went to a restaurant that served "period fare", or the cuisine of the mid 1800s. This consisted of things like pickled watermelon rind, peanut soup, game pie, and other various things that ranged between delicious and totally disgusting. We sat outside at a building in town that was present for the battle, and there were still several bulletholes up high on the brick wall facing the battlefields.

Anyway, just thought you might enjoy that. Tan | 39 03:07, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Tan, taking the blog link down was easier than taking down the Facebook link from my blog. I don't like blocked users contacting me via Facebook and while I didn't make much/any of an effort to hide who I am, that bothered me. Oddly enough my growing interest in Wikipedia spelled the end of my blog -- that and no travel of late. I had a wonderful time in Gettysburg. My father had a real interest in Gettysburg and we traveled to some other battlefields but for whatever reason I hadn't been to Gettysburg so the chance to go was nice. I felt a connection with him as well as he passed away in July 2006. Know what you mean re: the personal guides, they and the rangers also bring it to life. I would like to go back now that the visitor's center is reopened.

Sounds as if you had a wonderful trip, I'd love to hear more about it. I've been thinking some domestic travels since I've travled extensively overseas but not seen nmost of the US apart from: East Coast, Louisiana, Texas, Oklahoma, California and Las Vegas. I really want to see the Rockies ( been to the Canadian Rockies), Bryce Canyon, the Badlands... Can I ask what prompted your trip? Thanks for the note, I did enjoy it. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 03:17, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't have a facebook account so I didn't look you up. And, there's no way in hell I would ever put my blog link on here (not that mine's been active for years, but whatever). I don't mind being in personal IM or email contact with a few people on here, but once you start deleting articles and blocking users.... look out :-) Tan | 39 03:21, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

My brother and some friends overseas finally convinced me to get a Facebook and I haven't regretted it beacuse it's an easy way to be in touch with people. I got in touch with a guy I'd had a crush on in elementary school and hadn't thought of in 15 years so that was a fun moment. I need to make a Wiki e-mail -- right now it's a domain e-mail because I didn't want it to go to my primary account -- but I don't know that I want the world to know my domain so... Looks as if another throwaway account is on my horizons. I don't do IM much, really at all. I haven't installed a client on my new Mac. But e-mail always works. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 03:26, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Big Government--a Haiku

My hard work ignored

As was the Doctor Ron Paul

And liberty's lost

Jessamonk ( talk) 18:07, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Ooooh, sweet. I think you need to restore it, tcari. Tan | 39 18:11, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I like haikus, they get points for creativity. Unfortunately, Jessamonk, Wikipedia has certain guidelines for websites and it did not appear that Good for Libertarians? met those guidelines. If you can show reliable source coverage of this meme, I'd be happy to discuss it. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 18:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Tcari, did you even read the CSD page we use? Read toward the bottom... Tan | 39 18:15, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Yep, Haiku means WP:IAR. Give it back to him in userspace. And Jessamonk, best you find sources for your article, or it will just get nominated as speedy again. Z:-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:19, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Bah, e/c x2 -- I didn't want to restore it to mainspace because it would get immediately re-speedied and that seemed a bit taunting. Now you have it, oops now you don't. But I'll restore to userspace. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 18:23, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Rule #1 of TCari-pedia...embrace the edit conflict, for happen it will...welcome to adminship! Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:24, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Yer not having fun with this haiku thing, tcari. Boo. Tan | 39 18:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

LOL! More like "welcome to hanging out with the usual suspects" :) <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 18:26, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey, I had plenty of fun with this try at a haiku! Hmpho n you for saying I'm not having fun :-p <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 18:27, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Haiku for Tcari

This is my haiku.

If you don't like it, piss off

It obeys the rules. –  iride scent 03:00, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

• chuckle* love it. Since I'm sure it's missing by Friday, I've elected to restore your sanity. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 15:24, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi Travellingcari,

I am trying to create the article for the Argentinian Antonio Krapovickas, a rather important figure in Fabaceae & Malvaceae botany, but two of the main sources are in Spanish and I know practically nothing about the language. There is one in particular which is almost intelligible to me with the aid of Google's automatic translation tool, but not enough for article writing.

Peanuts are part of the Fabaceae family, by the way, which is why there is that news bit titled "Unique peanuts bring nations together".

I think that he graduated in 1948 with a degree in Agricultural Engineering from the University of Buenos Aires (UBA), but I don't know if this is a graduate degree. (It probably is, because he was a Professor in the next year.)

Anyway, if you are interested, I would love to have help. (It's not an immediate necessity, though.) « D. Trebbien ( talk) 04:45 2008 June 19 (UTC)

I did my best without a high-level dictionary and without extensive knowledge of the field. Due to time constraints, I translated the section on Krapovickas and not his wife. If you need her section, let me know and I'll get to it ASAP. It isn't a perfect English translation, and I'm not sure how some of the titles translate, i.e. Extraordinary Professor literally might be akin to our "Distinguished Professor" but that would require more indepth knowledge of the Argentine University system. I hope it helps. If you have questions, please let me know. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 17:07, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Antonio Krapovickas is an 83 year old Agronomic (? Is that an English word. I don’t know the field much) Engineer (UBA, 1948). He was a university professor (National University of Cordoba, Tucuman and Nordeste) from 1949 to 1989. In CONICET, he began his career as a Science and Technology Investigator in 1961 and retired as a “Superior Investigator” [NOTE: That’s literal – titles are a mess – I’d venture a guess it’s much like our “Senior” classification here in the US.] He was the Director of the Botany and Ecology Dept of the Faculty of Agrarian (another word I’m not certain of in English) Sciences (UNNE) which was created in 1977 from a joining between CONICET and UNNE – the creation of IBONE, of which he was director until his retirement.

His investigative works were centered in the taxonomy of Malvaceas [NOTE: don’t know what this is, Google isn’t helping and I don’t have my dictionary here] and different aspects of biology (taxonomy, evolution, cytogenesis) of general Arachis (see above – no idea), which belong. His contributions in these fields, a total of 111 original investigative works and 8 book chapters reached globally. His publications are seen as an obligatory reference work for those that refer to Malvaceas taxonomy and Douglas Wilson (Western Cotton Research Lab, Arizona) categorized them as one of the “most eminent studies of Malvaceas in the world”. His monograph of general Arachis is internationally renowned as a “monumental contribution for the understanding of the genus”, _______ to the distinguished North American geneticist and __________, Donald J. Banks.

At the same time, Engineer Krapovickas generated/created a number of collection trips in South America, realizing a __________ of germoplasm (? Like I said, not great in science) dispersed in labs/institutes throughout the world dedicated to improving genetics of the mani and related species. In Argentina he can be seen as pioneer in the search for usable materials for the cultivation of high valued economic species.

Engineer Krapovickas’ role in the creation of IBONE and the formation of these studies is enormous. In this sense, from his arrival in Corrientes in 1964 Eng. Krapovikas and his wife, Dr. Carmen Cristobal began to build “from nothing” to what today is IBONE. Their enthusiastic labor became an example for young students of Agronomy and Natural Sciences. With patience he grew to guide most of those who today work in professional state and private institutions throughout the country (formed officially or with fewer than 10 people who are actually members of CONICET or are Argentine University professors. Their work and doting personalities, their work in growing general culture and their contributions allowed them to acquire respect and admiration of those who worked alongside them.

Through most of Engineer Krapovickas’ work he received a number of distinctions and prizes; he’s a Corresponding Member of the National Academy of Agronomy and Veterinary; he’s an Academic of the Academy of National Sciences in Cordoba; he’s an Extraordinary Professor of UNNE’ he’s corresponding Member of the Botanical Society of America; won a prize from the Guggenheim Foundation; received the "Konnex”, “CADIA” “Bunge y Born” and “Ing. Agr. Arturo Burkhart” prizes of the National Academy of Physical and Natural Sciences; and he was honorary president of the VI Latin-American Botanic Congress.

Wow! Thanks! I think this will help a lot. « D. Trebbien ( talk) 22:15 2008 June 19 (UTC)

Luck!!!!! --- Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 22:14, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Good luck, chica - Tan | 39 22:15, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, both of you! It worked. I got the apartment. I'm very happy now. Commute will go from 1.5 hours each way to half an hour. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 02:12, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I see you've taken and uploaded a pic of the Hudson River Museum. Any chance you could find some of these places near you and take photos of them for those of us at WP:NRHP? As you can see, I did the two from Suffern already (and got them both on the Main Page as DYKs). If you need addresses, here's a list; if those are still confusing (and believe me the NPS makes errors), I can get more info out of the NYSOPRHP data base of their applications and pass it along. Daniel Case ( talk) 18:01, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Daniel, absolutely. I probably have a good number of these already just from living in Rockland for so long. One, however, is going to be a problem unless we have a time-traveler in our midst. Tappan Zee Playhouse was torn down and gutted. It stood as a vacant lot for a few years until it began to be rebuilt as subsidized housing and a market. See here. was the proposed discussion, I can't find the "oh no they didn't" article from once it occured. Then again it shouldn't surprise me. I know I have Hopper House and some of the others, will easily gathers those I don't. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 18:27, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

There are a few up here in Orange County that are probably gone now too. I have tried several times to find New Windsor's Haskell House, most recently on Saturday; it seems to have been gone (the HABS reports from the 1930s, and the NRHP nom from 1973, all mention its deplorable condition and there seem to be condos there now). Middletown's Oliver Avenue Bridge is also gone ... I have personally verified this. All that needs to happen is someone needs to file a form with the NPS requesting the listing be withdrawn if the resource no longer exists (see, also, Jobbers Canyon Historic District for the largest loss of an NRHP property at once). Daniel Case ( talk) 18:33, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh thaat story is sad. When I was doing a course in cultural heritage tourism in Prague last summer, I was drawn into the story of Dresden's potential loss of its world heritage listing and became even more interested in preservation issues. It's sad that more people don't recognize the value in these places. Living history tells far more then signs about where something used to be. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 19:18, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Sometimes it's inevitable. I remember when Newburgh tore down the Winchell House, its third-oldest structure at that time. As a reporter, I sat in on a meeting of preservationists opposed to the demolition with the architect in favor. It was a very civil conversation of equals, actually, since some of the former were architects too. Basically, his argument was that, in addition to being structurally unsound, its historicity was severely compromised by it having been attached years ago to a neighboring, more modern building. There's a point of no return with some of these old places. It's up to us to make sure as many as possible never reach it, like the Edwin Howard Armstrong House in Yonkers, the only National Historic Landmark in NY lost to demolition (because it, too, had been allowed to deteriorate. Armstrong invented FM radio at Philosophy Hall, near where we met a Columbia, his house was an NHL as well). I am also having trouble finding the Hyatt-Livingston House in Dobbs Ferry; there seem to be condos there, too.

In the case of demolished buildings that were on the NRHP, we can still write articles using historic photos and the historic-building infobox. You might want to do that for the Playhouse.

BTW, I saw you improved Tarrytown (Metro-North station). How do you like the images I added to it? Daniel Case ( talk) 15:04, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Hyatt-Livingston House. That sounds familiar. I may have something on it in my father's papers. I'll have a look for it. His family was in Rockland County for a long time and he may have some good clippings we can use. Tarrytown, yes, I love the photos and that's a reminder to me to look on the wall at the station for the article title and date as to when they tried to get it landmarked. I haven't been able to find it online yet. Working on Tarrytown was fun, I pass through there most days :) I want to work on the Playhouse as well as the Hopper House, both of which I should be able to do fairly quickly and easily given that they're a ~10 minute walk from my mom's place. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 14:24, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

It burned down, apparently. See this. Daniel Case ( talk) 19:21, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Invitation to WP:NRHP and NY-specific research info

You know, why don't I just invite you to join us? It overlaps pretty well with a lot of the other things you're doing. Just add your name at the bottom of the list on the project page; feel free to put the userbox on your page as well.

The state Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation has made all our NRHP applications and supporting materials available for online viewing here. The catch is, since they started imaging the documents before PDF became widespread, you have to have JavaScript enabled and sufficiently updated to use the viewing applet.

To use it, you type in the relevant info in "Basic Criteria" and then click on the Results tab (hitting enter merely clears the fields). If you've typed in the name of the specific property exactly, you get further links with "text" (the actual applicaiton", "photos" (the photos submitted along with it, which can be very helpful to view if you're unfamiliar with the property or haven't found it where you're looking for it) and "other" (correspondence between the state and the NPS regarding the application). These are really helpful to go over sometimes before you visit the property to take the picture; you may not know what to look for otherwise (not all NRHP listings are either obvious or marked with state historical markers. Especially in some of the rural areas around here where I live).

The Here's the Westchester list. If you get over to Tarrytown again soon, I missed the First Baptist Church last time I was there. From the bridge, you could probably hit Elmsford too. Daniel Case ( talk) 14:00, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Done, thanks for the links. I'm in Tarrytown every week day but I'll try to make a trip over for when I'll have some actual free time. Sleepy Hollow, Elmsford, Dobbs Ferry and Irvington are easy for me <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 03:36, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Donorresearch ( talk) 16:44, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I would like to ask, humbly and very nicely, that you consider undeleting the Prospect Research article. This is my first attempt and I am trying very hard to learn a whole new language and set of rules. The original nominator for deletion used Baltant Advertising as a reason. No company information is in the article and I am consciously trying to keep this from being commercial.

The prospect research industry is made up, predominately, of full-time employees of non-profit organizations around the world.

Specific references to coverage of the profession include:

Media coverage: 1) Finding that millionaire next door: using research to find the donors (Non-profit Times May 1, 2007)

2) Prospect research and personal solicitations.- Fund Raising Management Feb 1, 1990

3) Web Offers an Outlet For Charitable Impulses - New York Times - Dec 2, 1996

Books: 1) Prospect Research: A Primer for Growing Nonprofits (Paperback) by Cecilia Hogan (Author)Jones and Bartlett Publishers, Inc. (June 1, 2003)

2) Major Donors: Finding Big Gifts in Your Database and Online by Ted Hart, James M. Greenfield, Pamela M. Gignac, and Christopher Carnie (Hardcover - April 21, 2006)

3) Targeting the Powerful: International Prospect Research by Vanessa Hack (Hardcover - Mar 1, 2000)

It appears that you may have a conflict of interest with regard to Prospect Research, which has been speedily deleted twice by different admins. Before doing anything, I suggest that you read the page about conflicts of interest and decide whether you should be writing the article at all. If so, I suggest creating it in your own space and then having it vetted before it's brought back to main space, where it will almost certainly be re-deleted again and possibly protected against re-creation. Any questions, I'm happy to help <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 17:39, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Certainly wasn't any intent on my part to be in conflict. I believe prospect research is a valuable tool for philanthropy and thought it fit in with what you are trying to accomplish. I understand and appreciate the need for rules and applaud the aggressive monitoring to keep this as useful as it has become for reference and research. Given enough time, I am certain that this could be approached from a viewpoint acceptable to you. At this point, I will just drop it because I do not have the time or inclination to continue the back and forth and learn the volumes of rules. Donorresearch ( talk) 19:05, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome. I was a little nervous that I'd catch some flak for such a big change, so I was glad to get a thank-you! SlackerMom ( talk) 17:32, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Ha! You made me laugh. I work so fast I make mistakes all the time! Actually, that version didn't look too bad - it got MUCH worse before I found it! I think people were trying to help... SlackerMom ( talk) 17:57, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for raising this. The deletion of the talk page is optional and if there seems to be a lot of discussion, or discussion that may be useful in future (including if the deletion is reviewed), I prefer to leave it there. In contrast I deleted Talk:Enrico Rocce Verilano yesterday, because it only had a couple of tags on it. Hope that helps to clarify. Cheers TigerShark ( talk) 08:55, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Can be found here Dusti <sup>SPEAK!!</sup> 01:42, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Excuse me for butting in on this -- I saw the conversation on Dusti's page and thought I'd share my experience with the script. I, too, installed it and was convinced it wasn't working, but I was just too lazy to uninstall. A couple of days later I noticed the tabs only show up when you are editing an AfD page. HTH.-- Fabrictramp | talk to me 14:51, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

OMG. My eyes are open anew. I knew there was a script, but scripts and automated tools make me very nervous, and I've only closed AFDs manually. Until now. Decided to try this one. F-tramp is right, once you hit "edit this page" on an AFD, you magically get two new buttons on top next to "watch": Relist and close. If you click Close, a popup lets you type in the result (keep, merge, delete, whatever). Then hit save, and the debate is archived, closed, and I almost started crying it was so beautiful and easy. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 15:39, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Wow Keeper, would you like a room temp Mountain Dew and a box of tissues? Dusti <sup>SPEAK!!</sup> 15:58, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

It is a thing of beauty, isn't it. Uh, I'm glad I made you cry? ;-P -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 16:40, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

'Tis a happy cry. Nice signature, BTW...:-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:41, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. :) -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 17:07, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks all, I re-installed and it abbasalutely works a charm. Never would have thought you'd need to be in edit mode. Oh and butting in is always welcome. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 05:08, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Heho. ALoha. How are you getitng on with the Greek museums? I;ve been meaning to expand some of them sometime but I've been very busy sorting out the new bot and working on African geography and wildlife. Hey I saw your note on Keeprs talk page, I've often wondered why the female population of wikipedia is so low, it just seems dominated by blokes in their late teens and early twenties doesn't it! Which of course naturally is disastrous for the bias of wikipedia. Nearly everytime I visit the new pages there is alsways a new article on a 17 year old male Kreblakistani footballer and I rarely see a new articles on a sportswoman. I wonder why so few women use wikipedia ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ <sup>$1,000,000?</sup> 16:02, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Do you think Paradoxes (Max Nordau) should be moved to Paradoxes? I thought so but I couldn't move it. :-) -- brew crewer (yada, yada) 16:51, 22 June 2008 (UTC)-- brew crewer (yada, yada) 16:51, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok either you're trying to trick me or I'm missing something obvious. If it's the former :-p *thwap* if it's the latter, 'splain? <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 01:05, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

No, no tricks. Paradoxes redirects to Paradox. But now that there's an article about a book named Paradoxes ( Paradoxes (Max Nordau)) it would make more sense for Paradoxes to be the name of the book article instead of of being a redirect to Paradox. I, a lowly non-admin, can't move it, so I'm asking you if you agree, and if you do then please move it. Sorry for being my usual vague self. -- brew crewer (yada, yada) 01:24, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Half brain dead, I didn't notice the re-direct. My gut and it's nothing more than gut, is that more people are looking for Paradox when they search but I don't think a hatnote would be inappropriate, directing those who land at paradox to the proper place if it's the book they're searching. No question the book meets WP:BK based on how often it has been cited. Thoughts on that ? <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 01:32, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

You think more people searching for "paradoxes" will be looking for "paradox"? Maybe, but only because they did a careless search (using the plural). I wouldn't insert a hatnote either, it just makes that page uchhy since most people who wind up at that page came there by "paradox" and don't care about the book. In any case, don't do anything you don't think is correct. It's not that important either way. -- brew crewer (yada, yada) 01:38, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know. It's not a clear but more like an..'I don't know" There's a tool to see how many page views each (speaking paradox/paradoxes here, not the book) and that could help us gauge mis-searching but I forget where the tool is. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 01:56, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

On 22 June, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Brigham Young University Museum of Art, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Vishnava <sub>talk</sub> 18:30, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey there! You had removed the Speedy Delete tag I placed on the Blutonium Boy article -- and I am glad you did, as I was going to do it myself after speaking with the article's author. If I can ask your advice: how do you determine which non-referenced articles are worthy of Speedy Deletion and which are not? My initial concern was that the Blutonium Boy article had no references and included coverage of a red-linked record label that did not confirm notability. I appreciate your input. Be well. Ecoleetage ( talk) 12:58, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi Eco, my general theory in aligning with A7 is that all it needs to do is assert notability. In order to avoid a speedy that's all that has to happen. References, or a lack thereof, can be dealt with via tagging and if they can't be found, AfD/PROD. There are many unsourced articles on Wikipedia and while that doesn't give license to leaving others unsourced, it isn't a reason to speedily delete. A quick search also showed me some possible sources that could be used to improve the article. As to whether he'd pass AfD, I have no idea how DJs compare with WP:MUSIC but it's enough to have a go there. WRT the red-linked label, I'm guessing new at wiki code or he's thinking of creating an article on it. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 13:02, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your input. I am spending more time doing New Page Patrol and, subsequently, Speedy Deletions (though I prefer to keep articles rather than delete them). Lately, I've been tagging a lot of articles for additional references and wikification -- I think I'll put more focus into that, based on your comments. (I've also been adding WikiProject templates to Talk Pages for new articles, too). Be well! Ecoleetage ( talk) 13:07, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like a good course of action. Project-tagging helps the articles get attention from those more knowledgeable about and interested in the subjects. I don't like NPP much -- there's too much crud there. I prefer the backlog. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 13:11, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

I actually do both. Backlog is fascinating -- I love digging around in there because it is amazing how much can be found. The majority of what I bring to AfD comes from there. Thanks for starting my day with such a positive and happy note!

• munch* yum, thanks Eco! Much needed treat after the dentist. I agree, some undiscovered treasures in the backlog, including some easy to improve. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 18:05, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi,

I'm not clear why you thought that my SiConnect page needed to be deleted. I thought I had created a stub that was self-contained enough and that sufficiently portrayed the subject's notability to be worthy of retention, but your reason for rejection was that it had only had one contributor (me) so far - given that it was only a few hours old at the time of deletion, and that there are only about a thousand people on the planet able to offer a view on the subject matter, that's not a huge surprise to me.

It may have been that the content was too technical to make the notability apparent to someone outside of the field, in which case I shall try harder. What I don't understand is why other businesses with technology in the same field have managed to be the subject of successful articles (eg Design of Systems on Silicon, aka DS2).

If you could shed some light on the subject, or even review your decision, then I'd be hugely grateful.

Poemtech ( talk) 08:33, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

My reason for deletion had nothing to do with that it was a few hours old or that it had only one contributor. Rather, it was that "02:06, 25 June 2008 Travellingcari (Talk | contribs | block) deleted "SiConnect" ‎ (A7 (group): Group/band/company/etc.; doesn't indicate importance/significance) (restore)" There was no indication why the company was important. Someone tagged it as such and I agreed. There's no evidence why SiConnect is a notable semiconductor company. Wikipedia does not include every business, businesses need to meet WP:CORP and suggest you read the [[Wikipedia:FAQ/Business|business FAQ]. While it doesn't appear to be your company, the information there will probably help you. I suggest you work on the article in userspace, at User:Poemtech/SiConnect, for example and add reliable source information about the company before moving it bback to main space. I'm happy to restore the deleted article for you to work on if you;d like. Let me know. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 13:15, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Strange - there was definitely a message at one point about there having been only one contributor. Can't find it now (given that the article has been deleted !). The promise of secondary sources (pending precise references) to confirm notability had been made in the article and I had understood that sometimes this was sufficient, but I'm not going to spend your time or mine quibbling at this stage. I've got the source of my original attempt and I'll work on it in userspace and come back another day.

Poemtech ( talk) 13:53, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like a plan, please let me nkow if I can help in any way <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 14:18, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Per WP:ATHLETE, the individual must have competed "in a fully professional league, or a competition of equivalent standing in a non-league sport such as swimming, golf or tennis". Such notability was not established in the original version of the article (other than through the unsubstantiated "professional" qualifier). However, given that he has competed in the Asian Senior Masters 2003, I would guess that notability is met. Thanks for drawing my attention :) Gail ( talk) 14:17, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

No worries, as I've always understood a7, the simple assertion that he's professional avoids a speedy and the rest is the domain of PROD and AfD. I'll never understand why creators don't name articles properly in the first place but that's a horse of another color. He appears to have played in a total of two tournaments, the one you mentioned above and a local tournament, so I'm not sure he'd stand at AfD but I don't have time to truffle more for sources now. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 14:20, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

To be honest, I tagged it for speedy deletion because I didn't trust the use of the "professional" qualifier by the creator. What I observed was that:

• the article was created just today
• the article name was incorrect (as you already mentioned)
• the creator, Nicoleisamazing ( talk · contribs), has not performed any other edits on Wikipedia (not to mention the username)
• the article contained a disproportionate amount of detail about the subject's family (two sentences out of four)
• other than the creator, the article was only edited by a vandal to insert some libellous additions

Unfortunately, we get several such articles on the RC patrol, and this one simply did not sound legitimate enough to warrant verification against Google for the above-mentioned reasons. Still, I'll make an effort to be less hasty in the future. (Regarding AFD, I don't see any reason to nominate it, given that he has played in at least one professional tournament.) Gail ( talk) 14:47, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough, I don't do RC Patrol so I don't know some of the warning signs. Yeah I gutted the family stuff -- I'd really love for people - whether or not the subj is notable - to realise that no one cares who the family is unless they're notable. I spend more time AfDing random geneaology projects and listings for some of the same reasons. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 15:16, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

OK, I may not be the world's fastest typist, but boy do you folks delete fast! I have probably done the whole thing wrongly, but I took some copyrighted material and tried to re-word it. In no time at all, it had gone again. Maybe I should try doing it on vellum or parchment first, and then dictate that to an e-scribe. Safebreaker ( talk) 20:59, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

The article has now been deleted three times and I suggest prior to yet another re-creation, which might lead to it being protected from re-creation, you work on it in your own userspace. You could begin a draft in User:Safebreaker/Sandra Jordan where you can re-write it with reliable sources proving notability prior to moving it back. Does that help? <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 21:04, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Also, the problem is that you didn't reword it. You cut and pasted liberally from that other page, which is a violation of Wikipedia policy. Tan | 39 21:05, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for all your help, people! The lessons have been taken on board... Safebreaker ( talk) 10:02, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Restore dynaTrace

please! Competitors live on

in Wiki Cosmos

65.244.25.202 ( talk) 15:23, 25 June 2008 (UTC)ericsenunas

You'll find the article here. I highly suggest not immediately re-creating it in main space because it will be once again deleted as spam. I sugges you read WP:CORP to determine whether Dynatrace meets Wikipedia's notability guidelines. Whether or not other articles exist is not a reason for Dynatrace to remain if reliable sorces can't be found to demonstrate notability. The business FAQ may also help you as will the COI guidelines after reading this. Please let me know if I can help you in any way. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 15:46, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

...whoever you pissed off has some wide IP range access...-- Seba5618 ( talk) 03:46, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

The Global Energy and Water Cycle Experiment article is definitely a huge mess, but can you please tell me why you think there are COI and/or spam issues? Maybe I'm just not seeing those issues, or they're buried under everything else. Thanks! -- ArglebargleIV ( talk) 20:04, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Hamlet comes to mind. "The lady doth protest too much"? I think the author's vehement protests about COI are quacking loudly. The tone has been improved so much but it was rather spammy and still reads quite like an ad for the program. It is notable, I agree and it probably should stay but I think it needs to be gutted and re-written. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 20:33, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

OK, I can perhaps see that. Will have to think about it. BTW, your "new messages" template on my talk page is a great idea! -- ArglebargleIV ( talk) 04:58, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

The creator is starting to work on it more and as I said to 69.140 on the talk page, I think it will be kept at AfD, as it should. No need for 'rescue' it just needs a re-write, like 90% of the newly-created articles here. It was speedied once (not by me) and when I found it I tagged it because it has issues, but I never thought it should be deleted. I'm not a fan of using AfD for clean-up, which I'm not saying the nom did in this case. And {{tl|talkback}} is a wonderful took, it keeps messages in one place witout the need of watching many talk pages. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 13:24, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

You are free to make edits to the article, and to make specific comments on the talk-page that would improve the article. Twice set-up for deletion one has to wonder why the first 3 or so Admins who reviewed that article did not 'see fit' to take time to see if the subject was worry. Quacking, you cannot expect me to say 'that's fair' can you? And if you want to know my opinion, the article is still not organized well because the best organization for wiki may not reflect the projects multidimensional organization schemes, so someone needs to decide which schemes are most suitable. I find 100s of wiki pages that are in much worse shape even after more than a year on wiki, is it not oppressive to expect a good article on a very complex entity to meet B status in a few days, in one case a few hours? If you want to avoid further conflicts as an Admin, try to be compassionate to editors and have patience, we are also volunteers, and however you feel about ducks quacking or looking, its the ducks that bring life to the pond, and is what attracts people. The difference here, if I see a deficient article I know I can improve, then I take some time to improve that article. Otherwise who am I, who is anybody, to determine the worthiness of an article existence unless I spend alot of time to try to understand what the topic is about? Pdeitiker ( talk) 16:52, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

An example CNES page has been on Wiki since 2003, it's a mess. And yet it gets referenced on Wiki's main news page. Objectivity is key, is it better to have someone that maybe not NPOV but is willing to take time to improve a page or people who are afraid to create and improve pages because someone is going to shoot them down WP:BOLD. Pdeitiker ( talk) 16:52, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

???I'm confused. The article was deleted once. * 18:47, 22 June 2008 Stifle (Talk | contribs | block) deleted "Global Energy and Water Cycle Experiment" ‎ (A7 (group): Group/band/company/etc.; doesn't indicate importance/significance) (restore), not by me nor was I the one who brought it to AfD for the reasons I said above. You'll also note I !voted keep on the AfD because it's a notable topic. Just because any other article exists or is featured doesn't mean another should. I might have been wrong about the COI but it's still not a balanced article which makes it an easy comparison to someone who has a vested interest in seeing the subject portrayed in solely a positie light. I *am* an editor, I work extensively on museum articles, admins and editors are not mutally exclusuve. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 23:21, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Dear Travellin Cari,

Thanks so much for the wonderful explanation of the A7 code. Michelle Skaletski-Boyd is a very credible source, and I apologize for not listing specifics. I now understand the importance of listing sources.

Here are a few credible facts. Please let me know if there's more that I need to provide, and I will be happy to comply.

I'm not sure if any of this is considered "advertising" so let me know if there's something else you are looking for. Thank you so much!

Michelle is a published freelance inspirational writer. She has a quarterly column in Montana Woman Magazine and has been featured in Angels on Earth magazine (part of the Guideposts publications out in New York). http://www.angelsmag.com/afterglow/JulyAugust2007/

Michelle is a featured guest on the Manifest Station Internet Channel and has produced her own line of Soul-Felt video products. http://www.themanifest-station.com/messengersbio/michelle_skaletski_boyd.html

She has also been featured on several internet radio shows. (Let me know if you need specifics).

If you Google her name, you'll see what I mean.

Please email me at sunn_goddess1@yahoo.com should you have any suggestions for me. I want to make this right.

Thanks!!

Sunn

72.160.45.216 ( talk) 15:34, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for the note. What you need to do is use reliable sources to demonstrate the notability of Michelle Skaletski-Boyd. RS coverage often needs to include what people are saying about her, not just her own work. I suggest you re-create the article in your own space, at User:Tnsexy/Michelle Skaletski-Boyd and add in reliable sources. Remember the Wikipedia is not to be used for promotional purposes but includes those who are encyclopedically notable. Does that help? <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 15:39, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Dear Cari,

Thanks for the fast reply; however, I am still not understanding (I'm so sorry). Please know that I read through all of the "reliable source" content and the "notability" content and am still confused. So... I am going to ask really specific questions in hopes you can answer each in detail.

1) Is the fact that Michelle Skaletski-Boyd has been published in Angels on Earth enough to be considered a reliable source and does this give her notability?

2) If so, how do I credit this source so that this is not deleted again? In other words, will putting the URL be efficient, or should I list the actual publication date? Your "reliable source" page says things like this are "iffy" and I want to make sure I get this right.

3) Is the original write up on Michelle still available or do I need to completely redo it? Unfortunately I didn't save a copy :(

4) If #1 and #2 above are not applicable, is there anything that I've told you thus far about Michelle that is considered "notable" and "source worthy?"

I was asked to take this project on and want to do a good job, so thank you again for your help. You are a wonderful asset. I appreciate your assistance. Thank goodness you're there to help.

Sunn

72.160.52.60 ( talk) 19:58, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi Sunn,

I restored the article for you to work on at User:Tnsexy/Michelle Skaletski-Boyd. This way it's in your own space and won't be deleted so long as you're continuing to work on it. One of the most important policies on Wikipedia is the ability to verify what's being claimed in an article so if you're able to access the books/magazines for publication date, that's better. I'm happy to continue helping, please feel free to ask me any questions you may have. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 23:30, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Just wanted to let you know that I relisted two proposals of mine at WP:VPR that had not gained a favorable consensus elsewhere. Links to prior discussion can be found here and here. 69.140.152.55 ( talk) 02:09, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Dear Travellingcari,

My name is Eugene, I am typing this message on behalf of Ultimate Marketing Solutions LLC, D/B/A Craftsmennetwork.com.

Recently my article with title "Craftsmen network" was deleted by you. The message said that it was deleted because of "use Wikipedia for advertising". I did not intend to use Wikipedia as advertising method for our website.

It was submitted three times because I was making adjustments after deletion to make sure that article will not be considered as advertising by administrators. All versions were neutral. The last one was even without hyper link, but you still considered it as advertising.

We just wanted to have other(independent) source except our website where customers can learn more about our company.

Before submitting the article I have read all riles, FAQs and checked out articles about competing companies (eg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servicemagic). I believe that article contained all information from the neutral point of view. I also believe that article was deleted not due to other reasons. (eg smaller company size)

I would appreciate if you could give me advice how the article should look like in order to be accepted.

Sincerely, Eugene —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eugene799 ( talk • contribs) 15:55, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi Eugene,

The second two times that the article was deleted had nothing to do with advertising but rather because there was no evidence the group was notable per Wikipedia standards. I suggest you read WP:CORP to read about the standards by which companies are judged to be notable by Wikipedia standards, including coverage in reliable sources. Since you said We just wanted to have other(independent) source except our website where customers can learn more about our company it does indeed seem that you're trying to promote your company and I suggest you have a look at the COI guidelines. The article is currently protected against recreation but you could work on it at User:Eugene799/Craftsmen Network to see if you can establish notability but remember that Wikipedia is not a bsiness directory and not evey company will be included. Am happy to help if I can, please let me know. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 19:55, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually, it was the admin that told me to rewrite it. See here. So, please restore my edits or, if you like, we can go for a Deletion Review. Lonwolve ( talk) 06:46, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

You have placed several tags [2] on this article on June 23. I removed three of them: notability, advert and coi. I don't believe that notability is an issue here: this is a major law, very politically controversial, with lots of coverage by reliable sources. I don't think the article reads like an advert either. Regarding coi, if you have a real concern here, please explain it at the article's talk page. It is a bit hard to imagine how anyone can actually have a COI in relation to an article about a U.S. statute. Thanks, Nsk92 ( talk) 18:14, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

I got home yesterday evening and took another look at the article. I agree that User:LicenseAuthority (now blocked) appears to have been a vandal, especially based on this edit [3]. Also, User:REALidMan is a fairly disruptive SPA who reasonably likely does have a COI in relation to Coalition for a Secure Driver's License. It is also clear that the article Coalition for a Secure Driver's License is in a pretty horrid shape, and all the tags placed there are appropriate, including COI and NPOV tags. However, the REAL ID Act article is a somewhat different matter. REALidMan made one edit to that article, [4], where he added an external link to the Coalition for a Secure Driver's License website. The text given for this link "Information on REAL ID Act and Public Law 109-13" was clearly misleading. However, I do not see a problem with simply having an EL link to their website with an accurate text, something like "Coalition for a Secure Driver's License, an advocacy group supporting the REAL ID Act". The EL section in the article is quite a bit of a mess, but it does include many EL links to sites opposing the REAL ID Act. So in the interests of balance and providing more complete information to the readers, it may actually be a good idea to add an EL link to Coalition for a Secure Driver's License. Although I personally very much disagree with their position, this organization appears to be notable, and even somewhat infamous, based on the newscoverage they received [5]. So providing an EL link to their site would be relevant and not a spam case, such as these edits were, for example: [6] [7]. Regards, Nsk92 ( talk) 09:56, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey Cari....I've talked to Tan about the Account Creator ability, and I want to make sure that I understand how it works (I havent been granted access yet). Could you take a peek at this page and make sure I've fully understood how the process works? I've asked Tiptoey to also look, but I think he's offline. Thanks, Dusti <sup>SPEAK!!</sup> 21:56, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi Dusti. Hope you're dryer than I am -- we just lost power again. I saw the thread since I watch Tan's page. I know about as much as Tan does re:ACC and I agree with his suggestion about talking to Keeper because a)he's been an admin longer and may be more familiar with the process and b) he has worked with you. I recognize that you're trying to learn all areas and that's a good thing, but try not to over extend yourself. Burn out is a bad thing , especially with starting school. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 22:04, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

EWW!!!! Tip is actually online and he's explaining the process to me. Hope your power comes back on, otherwise yuck!!! Have a great weekend :)...Oh, I'm just trying to get my feet wet in most of the areas that I can, for when I do have an eventual RFA so I might actually get my name associated with these. Thanks ;-) Dusti <sup>SPEAK!!</sup> 22:07, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Glad that Tip was able to explain it, I've found him to be good at explaining things. We lost power again so I did what was only appropriate -- went shopping in air conditioning. It was ~90 today and too hot to do otherwise. I think that in addition to dipping your toe in various areas, try to get really good at one. Me for example, I don't do images much and have no idea what a portal is. That didn't get held against me (other than one neutral) in my RFA so it's something to think about. You're doing well in that you know when yo ask questions and from my first interaction with you -- something on Keep's page, I think, because that was how I ended up following a discussion to yours and fixed the side scroll-- you've grown in Wiki knowledge. I think you have good potential here and I"m glad to see you're back. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 03:12, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh my....I tend to like to shop and let my inner.....self.....burst forth lol. Yes, I think we met on Keep's page. Thanks for the compliments, I'm glad to be back. ;-) Dusti <sup>SPEAK!!</sup> 03:48, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Funny thing is, I'm so not a shopper but getting ready to move into my new place has turned me into a bit of one. :) 03:52, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh emm gee, I love to shop!!!! We should so go shopping sometime lol....well....that may not be possible but still, hey, you never know ;) Dusti <sup>SPEAK!!</sup> 03:55, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

You know those days when you get bored and just play around? I decided to check how many edits ClueBot has....672,940 with over 50% to mainspace. Hmmmm....That's actually my account lol. Think I will pass an RFA with that? :-) Dusti <sup>SPEAK!!</sup> 03:59, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

If I make it to Indiana, I'll let you know -- and vice versa ;) Second night in a row of shopping -- this time I managed to spend $14 because I returned one pair of shoes and bought two -- but didn't buy what I went out for - i.e. a) bed b) desk c) TV <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 04:00, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

LOL, check out Bloefeld too, he has a ton -- possibly most of any human. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 04:01, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Wait....he's a human with 163367 edits and not an admin? WOW Dusti <sup>SPEAK!!</sup> 04:09, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah he doesn't want to, for whatever reason. Fun guy to talk to, he and I met over some museum articles and he's helped me a lot. Don't recommend watching his talk unless yo have a fast computer, I couldn't on my old laptop. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 04:14, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

you've made today's news lol....how's the heat? Dusti <sup>SPEAK!!</sup> 17:17, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm famous. It's hot -- had three fans on packing, not fun. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 00:22, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Unbelievable... I write my first article on Wikipedia and it ruthlessly gets deleted. TNTRide, LLC. is a notable company. I wouldn't write about it unless it was. Like any other corporation on Wikipedia I was forming an article about them. The article was no where near being finished and I login into my account to find it being severely ridiculed. Do you know the CEO has a brain tumor? I felt like helping them and look what happens. What is the world coming to? Here's a page I found about him. [8]. Read that and you'll see why I was trying to help him and his family.

Ebayrockstar ( talk) 06:25, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

I suggest you read WP:CORP to see what businesses are notable, this one does not appear to be especially due to the lack of reliable sources, which the company's own website and the one you link above are not. It's noble to want to help them, but that's not what Wikipedia is for. I'm going to be on and offline today but happy to help you. As I said on your own page, you're welcome to take it to deletion review. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 14:54, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok I read it, in fact more than once now. Please clarify reliable resources in your own words. If you're offering help I'm definitely not turning it down. As far as this deletion review I'm so new to Wikipedia I'm not really sure how to save my rough draft article, let alone successfully edit it. Ebayrockstar ( talk) 02:17, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Recreate it in your own space, i.e. User:Ebayrockstar/TNTRide and try to establish notability from reliable sources. News coverage of the company, not websites and certainly not their own site. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 02:21, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey! No worries about letting these AfDs play out if that's how editors want to handle it. Thanks for bringing this up. Gwen Gale ( talk) 18:52, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Template:GGcsd. If you still need more help, ask :) Cheers, Gwen Gale ( talk) 03:45, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi Cari, I'm creating an article on my user space as I can't create it quick enough. Another user has added something, which is obviously fine, but it makes no sense and isn't connected to the actor or his work. Its right at the beginning of the article and makes a reference to Agatha Christie.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Orson20 ( talk • contribs) 09:15, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Orson, I presume you mean here. I see the IP edits and I have no idea what that's about either. It's not vandalism but it's definitely not in the right place. Google doesn't even show any link between the two, so I'm not sure how to explain it. You're doing good work with the article, thanks so much for taking the time to work on it. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 14:43, 30 June 2008 (UTC) Thank you Cari for your positive feedback Orson20 ( talk) 15:06, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I'm the new me with the changed name. :) Thank you for the kind caring. By the way, I'm bit amazed by the fact that Wikiproject Libraries is not created yet. -- Caspian blue ( talk) 15:00, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

I am always rude to oggle users and in real life go into horrible diatribes and pont out clsty and others - even if its a plus or a mins - so dont take it the wrong wy :( please Satu Suro

Hm? I actually took it to be a ogle or Google typo, what did I miss ? I can usually speak "Strine" quite well ;) <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 03:08, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Mind-bottling Tan | 39 03:08, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

My mind is utterly gone. I think I packed it. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 03:09, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

My hotel room in Dallas here has many leather-bound books, and smells of rich mahogony Tan | 39

and a/c I imagine. We're having August in June right now, sitting between three fans. My room was awful for packing. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 03:12, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

You either a) are getting my movie references but choosing to treat them like they're real statements, or b) unaware that they are movie references and responding to them, thinking I'm really weird. Tan | 39 03:14, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

c) unaware that they are movie references and responding to them, not thinking you're weird at all -- bottled mind from leather-bound books. I'm not much of a movie person. We're all weird, it's why we're here isn't it? :) <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 03:21, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Weird ok after flicked ed - or ed conflict take your pick

ok ok so i am an google search engine critic - i try not to actually spell it out as all of what we do here is instantly on the bloody google think like that bottle or no bottle - so i use shrthand term such as oggle - my suitcase smells so i dnot pack it - and when i see oggle cited (+vly or -Ly) at afds i tend to blow many fuses and find it hard (ever been criticized by a mllhst just recently for being too payful in afds?) not to break bottles and throw smelly suitcases when it comes to a single very very pathetic search engine - just coz they millionaires dosnt improve the info :| =- hope that explains all bar the otter, the slide and the soap - cheers Satu Suro 03:16, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Got it, I think. Except for payful, what's payful? Too many pay only sources? I really wish some people would look before AfDing - it was clear there was something here that could be found with three seconds of Google. I know precisely nothing about WA's gold fields other than having passed briefly through Kalgoorlie. I preferred the mineral mining in the Pilbara further north. <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 03:21, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

more tyops than a speeding bottle or flying suitcase could encounter in 4 degree perth tempeartur - playful Satu Suro 03:23, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

What the hell...? Tan | 39 03:25, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Nah wrong thread, wrong bottle and wrong suitcase mate - we in the west... nah dont bother Satu Suro 03:30, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

sends you some degrees -- we hit ~35 today which was awful for NY in June -- that's more August if at all. I was in Perth at this time, I miss it but it wasn't quite that chilly. Albany and MArgaret River on the tier hand... <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 03:31, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey Tan, since you're here. Mind a look at the TNTRide thread above as well as eBay's talk? I think I made a good call, but there's something fishy -- I get what he's trying to do, but there also seems to be some not so positive encouragement on his talk page. Instigation almost. Thoughts? <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 03:33, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Just noticed this. Will look... Tan | 39 14:44, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Responded on ebay's talk page. Just the typical indignation from editors who don't bother to learn the rules. I'd let it go. Tan | 39 15:14, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, that's what I thought but when Buster7 got involved, I was less sure of myself. Have a good day! <sub>TravellingCari</sub> <sup>the Busy Bee</sup> 15:17, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

please see... http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/wikiknights#The_Knights. It was an early idea and then I stumbled across Ebayrocknroll and decided to "reach out". Nothing more mysterious than that. You softened the harshness of how WE (WikiEditors) were treating him/her. Civility was returned. Bedankt!-- Buster7 ( talk) 21:25, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Hello again!

A while ago you translated some material for Antonio Krapovickas, and I was wondering if you could translate the information about Carmen Lelia Cristóbal, his wife, as well.

I have been playing around in a small area of Wikipedia's coverage, fixing redlinks and updating formatting when I had time, so this would be a good addition.

Thank you for your help.

«  D. Trebbien ( talk) 20:29, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

ps. Esterculiáceas = Sterculiaceae, and there's Ayenia and Byttneria

There's absolutely no rush. Actually, I have been moving, too.

I hope that you have fun at the wedding, and that your move is uneventful! «  D. Trebbien ( talk)