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On 26 February 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Jewish expulsion and flight from the Muslim world. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
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1. Could an authorised editor please make the following 2/1 character correction in the article lede? Sentence currently flips "direction" in its final third -- jarring for native English speakers. Thanks in advance.
NOW: "In total, of the 900,000 Jews who left Arab and other Muslim countries, 600,000 settled in the new state of Israel, and 300,000 immigrated to France and the United States."
BETTER AS: "~ 300,000 emigrated ~" Tom Segev's quote (footnote 300)
2. "if a man as well connected and powerful as Shafiq Ades could he eliminated by the state" - change "he" to "be"
The result of the move request was: not moved. Withdrawn by nominator; clear consensus against. ( closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal ( talk) 17:51, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
Jewish exodus from the Muslim world → Jewish expulsion and flight from the Muslim world – "Expulsion and flight" is a neutral description of what occurred, while the current title is a euphemism. It would also be WP:CONSISTENT with 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight and the RM that moved it to that title from "1948 Palestinian exodus" - the reasons for that move apply equally to this. BilledMammal ( talk) 04:33, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
While the arrival of these Jews from the Arab world played a critical role in shaping the character and evolution of Israeli society after 1948, the argument that their dislocation was comparable to that of the Palestinians is controversial and problematic. Israeli propagandists stressed the difficulties that confronted Jews in Arab lands and suggested that they had been forced to leave their homes. ... In fact, however, such statements give a distorted impression of the complex and varied situation of the Jews in Arab countries and of the diverse reasons that led most to leave.
Scholarly Israeli and Jewish sources, as well as others, offer a more realistic appraisal. ... Further, though Jewish insecurity was both real and justified in some Arab countries, it was far less significant in others, and, in any event, it was only one of the reasons that Jews chose to leave the Arab world at this time. Immigration to Israel was sometimes the result of a desire to participate in the building of the Jewish state. This motivation was most intense in the more traditional and religious Jewish communities, often located in rural areas. In these cases, and undoubtedly some others, it was the attraction of Israel, rather than a desire to flee persecution, that led Jews to leave the Arab countries in which they lived.
Socioeconomic factors may have been an even more important consideration ... Moreover, not only did an uncertain economic future lead some Jews to think about leaving, but the economic advantages and favoritism Jews had enjoyed in the past created resentment among the majority, a consideration that may also have encouraged Jewish emigration but which had nothing to do with the Arab-Jewish conflict in Palestine.
In some instances, cultural factors provided yet another stimulus to Jewish emigration ... In fact, many of these Jews emigrated to Europe rather than to Israel.
Finally, post-1948 Zionist efforts to promote Jewish emigration appear to have been an important factor in at least a few instances ... In any event, when Zionist involvement is added to the socioeconomic, cultural, and other factors that helped to stimulate Jewish departures, it becomes clear that it is highly oversimplified, and in many ways misleading, to equate the flight of Palestine's Arabs with the immigration to Israel of Jews from Arab countries.
Ref: https://www.jewishrefugees.org.uk/tag/jews-of-lebanon
Note the Jewish Population in Turkey is about 14,500 72.49.135.188 ( talk) 12:30, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
I don't understand why this line is being removed
"sometimes positing a "malicious Zionist conspiracy" to explain the exodus." [1]
It was apparently removed for being POV but the main reference supporting it as an actual scholar and professor Philip Mendes, who has spent many years researching the Jewish expulsion from the MENA region. The main reference also has another 10 or so sources supporting it.
Lotsofsalt ( talk) 10 April 2024 (UTC)
The term "Exodus" adds Biblical connotations and is very POV based. Jews were not ethnically cleansed, or exiled, from any Muslim countries. By and large, they voluntarily left for religious and cultural reasons. Those "riots" were not catalysts, rather many SWANA Jews already planned on settling in Israel, and were waiting for the state to be established. They were PREVENTED from leaving. This narrative promotes Nakba denial, is based on carefully cherry-picked sources, and ignores the wider context of colonization. Gamalny ( talk) 02:29, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.
|
On 26 February 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Jewish expulsion and flight from the Muslim world. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
|
|||||||
This page has archives. Sections older than 45 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III. |
This article is substantially duplicated by a piece in an external publication. Please do not flag this article as a copyright violation of the following source:
|
1. Could an authorised editor please make the following 2/1 character correction in the article lede? Sentence currently flips "direction" in its final third -- jarring for native English speakers. Thanks in advance.
NOW: "In total, of the 900,000 Jews who left Arab and other Muslim countries, 600,000 settled in the new state of Israel, and 300,000 immigrated to France and the United States."
BETTER AS: "~ 300,000 emigrated ~" Tom Segev's quote (footnote 300)
2. "if a man as well connected and powerful as Shafiq Ades could he eliminated by the state" - change "he" to "be"
The result of the move request was: not moved. Withdrawn by nominator; clear consensus against. ( closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal ( talk) 17:51, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
Jewish exodus from the Muslim world → Jewish expulsion and flight from the Muslim world – "Expulsion and flight" is a neutral description of what occurred, while the current title is a euphemism. It would also be WP:CONSISTENT with 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight and the RM that moved it to that title from "1948 Palestinian exodus" - the reasons for that move apply equally to this. BilledMammal ( talk) 04:33, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
While the arrival of these Jews from the Arab world played a critical role in shaping the character and evolution of Israeli society after 1948, the argument that their dislocation was comparable to that of the Palestinians is controversial and problematic. Israeli propagandists stressed the difficulties that confronted Jews in Arab lands and suggested that they had been forced to leave their homes. ... In fact, however, such statements give a distorted impression of the complex and varied situation of the Jews in Arab countries and of the diverse reasons that led most to leave.
Scholarly Israeli and Jewish sources, as well as others, offer a more realistic appraisal. ... Further, though Jewish insecurity was both real and justified in some Arab countries, it was far less significant in others, and, in any event, it was only one of the reasons that Jews chose to leave the Arab world at this time. Immigration to Israel was sometimes the result of a desire to participate in the building of the Jewish state. This motivation was most intense in the more traditional and religious Jewish communities, often located in rural areas. In these cases, and undoubtedly some others, it was the attraction of Israel, rather than a desire to flee persecution, that led Jews to leave the Arab countries in which they lived.
Socioeconomic factors may have been an even more important consideration ... Moreover, not only did an uncertain economic future lead some Jews to think about leaving, but the economic advantages and favoritism Jews had enjoyed in the past created resentment among the majority, a consideration that may also have encouraged Jewish emigration but which had nothing to do with the Arab-Jewish conflict in Palestine.
In some instances, cultural factors provided yet another stimulus to Jewish emigration ... In fact, many of these Jews emigrated to Europe rather than to Israel.
Finally, post-1948 Zionist efforts to promote Jewish emigration appear to have been an important factor in at least a few instances ... In any event, when Zionist involvement is added to the socioeconomic, cultural, and other factors that helped to stimulate Jewish departures, it becomes clear that it is highly oversimplified, and in many ways misleading, to equate the flight of Palestine's Arabs with the immigration to Israel of Jews from Arab countries.
Ref: https://www.jewishrefugees.org.uk/tag/jews-of-lebanon
Note the Jewish Population in Turkey is about 14,500 72.49.135.188 ( talk) 12:30, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
I don't understand why this line is being removed
"sometimes positing a "malicious Zionist conspiracy" to explain the exodus." [1]
It was apparently removed for being POV but the main reference supporting it as an actual scholar and professor Philip Mendes, who has spent many years researching the Jewish expulsion from the MENA region. The main reference also has another 10 or so sources supporting it.
Lotsofsalt ( talk) 10 April 2024 (UTC)
The term "Exodus" adds Biblical connotations and is very POV based. Jews were not ethnically cleansed, or exiled, from any Muslim countries. By and large, they voluntarily left for religious and cultural reasons. Those "riots" were not catalysts, rather many SWANA Jews already planned on settling in Israel, and were waiting for the state to be established. They were PREVENTED from leaving. This narrative promotes Nakba denial, is based on carefully cherry-picked sources, and ignores the wider context of colonization. Gamalny ( talk) 02:29, 21 April 2024 (UTC)