1943 Gibraltar Liberator AL523 crash was a History good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||
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A
fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the "
Did you know?" column on
January 8, 2013. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that
the 1943 death of the
Polish government in exile leader, general
Władysław Sikorski, led to
a number of conspiracy theories? | ||||||||||
Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on July 4, 2014, July 4, 2018, and July 4, 2023. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Article says, "While 11 was the official count of those who perished, the exact number of passengers was not known. In addition, there were six crew members on the flight"
If there were ~11 passengers and 6 crew then ~17 died. If there were 6 crew and 11 confirmed deaths then the disputed passenger count would be ~5. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.138.223.87 ( talk) 05:18, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: The Rambling Man ( talk · contribs) 16:24, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
Comments
I'm quite concerned over the spread of the information which should all be in this article but seems to be across (at least) three articles. There's some work to be done here so I'm going to fail it for the moment, but I'm happy to discuss the way forward, and am content to work with the nominator to work out the best solution. The Rambling Man ( talk) 16:37, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
Most issues addressed, with the exception of lead, merger, and gallery. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:38, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
I propose that various articles or sections of articles are merged into this as there appears to be some unnecessary forking and duplication going on. Specifically, information from:
should be merged here. The Rambling Man ( talk) 08:43, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
It's not about counting votes (although four people are in favour of a merge, vs two against) it's about assessing consensus and paying heed to guidelines such as avoiding unnecessary forks. As for merging non-GA material, that's utterly irrelevant. Seems that the split was designed to create more GAs! The Rambling Man ( talk) 10:10, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
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1943 Gibraltar B-24 crash. Please take a moment to review
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In December 2017 the book "To Live Well is to Hide Well"[32] explains the crash as completely 'deliberate sabotage' with proof and not as found by the IPN. Under orders with the OW JZ, Polish Military man Bronislaw Urbanski, a member of the OW ZJ 'Lizard Union' before it merged with the NSZ. Later Bronislaw became the ‘King Assassin’ for the Polish Government in Exile with orders located in England using various pseudonyms. He also was under the directions of Zbigniew Szubanski in Unit 993/W of the A.K. The book is based on Bronislaw's true life story and his detailed confessions. The book describes in detail why, who and exactly how this was done in Gibraltar without any detection to this very day. The method used to down the plane so quickly and leave no evidence has been verified by Garth Barnard Investigator and Producer of 'Sikorski's Last Flight' with WW2 Air Crash Investigators in 2017.
It is based on one source and there is no indication how reliable it is. 194.157.77.194 ( talk) 07:45, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
Adding that '...the British weren't stupid enough to allow 'any Tom, Dick, or Harry' to wander......' that is unless you were one of General Sikorski's 12 x bodyguards and were sent by the British from the Polish Government in Exile situated in London!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.168.205.223 ( talk) 05:18, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
This book has been revised and has many expert and scholary reviews.
Bronislaw Urbanski 02:53, 17 January 2021 (UTC) — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Youngbruno (
talk •
contribs)
Re: [1]. Given the controversy and conspiracy theory (or theories, Władysław Sikorski's death controversy), the list of all passengers is informative to our readers. It is also referenced. An essay on style should not overrule prior consensus and result in censoring of referenced and relevant information from the article. In either case, only Lock and Pinder don't have an article; the others have it (on pl wikipedia). But Lock and Pinder are not nobodies; they are discussed in literature on this crash (ex. in a footnote here [2] - sorry, Polish, and snippet view). -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:58, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
Instead of the prevarication, let's just look for a local consensus. Should individuals who don't have articles on en.wiki be listed in the "List of passengers"? The Rambling Man ( talk) 18:06, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
Much of the content overlaps. The controversy belongs in the article about the crash (or vice versa). Sandstein 13:55, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
Notified Wikiprojects WP:MILHIST and WP:DEATH for more input. starship .paint ( talk) 13:22, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
"Jerzy Zięborak thinks that Prchal lied on purpose about the Mae West lifejacket." This is the only mention in the article of a lifejacket. What did Prchal say about it, and why does Zieborak think he lied? 71.235.184.247 ( talk) 11:36, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
I removed this from Władysław Sikorski for WP:OTHERSTUFF and WP:PROMO. There may be something salvageable from it and vmt to Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus for the suggestion that if so it belongs here. The removed material is below. Regards to all, Springnuts ( talk) 21:43, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
In August 2020 Canadian Aeronautical expert and mechanic Chris Wroblewski combined with WW2 Air Crash Investigator - Britain's Garth Barnard (who produced 'Sikorski's Last Flight') [1] used scientific aeronautical analysis results produced a series of physical Trials [2] based upon a model of Sikorski's plane (AL523). The Trials proved that the method outlined in the book by author Peter Urbanski 'To Live Well is to Hide Well' [3] was the sole reason for the plane's crash.
References
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please note FABRICATION and the man DIED before the IPN (Polish) Official investigation 2009. It is wrong and absurd to put someones comments that died before the official investigation that said it was still ongoing. The author who wrote this is trying to change history that it was an accident.
See and please delete reference to him. Do YOUR RESEARCH HE DIED BEFORE THE OFFICIAL COMMENTS OF THE POLISH GOVERNMENT
......However, as Roman Wapiński noted in his biographical entry on Sikorski in the Polish Biographical Dictionary in 1997, no conclusive evidence of any wrongdoing had been found, and Sikorski's official cause of death was listed as an accident.[1]..... Bronislaw Urbanski 01:11, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
The biggest problem Wikipedia faces is = blind faith as Poland will refuse the truth as they do not wish to hear that a Polish Intelligence officer took out their leader. They want to blame the Russians as I would want to. What to you do Wikipedia, tell the truth or lie now and create fake stories to soothe Polish people? I would tell the truth.
Zofia's name is written twice. 37.30.12.111 ( talk) 08:56, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
1943 Gibraltar Liberator AL523 crash was a History good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
A
fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the "
Did you know?" column on
January 8, 2013. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that
the 1943 death of the
Polish government in exile leader, general
Władysław Sikorski, led to
a number of conspiracy theories? | ||||||||||
Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on July 4, 2014, July 4, 2018, and July 4, 2023. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Article says, "While 11 was the official count of those who perished, the exact number of passengers was not known. In addition, there were six crew members on the flight"
If there were ~11 passengers and 6 crew then ~17 died. If there were 6 crew and 11 confirmed deaths then the disputed passenger count would be ~5. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.138.223.87 ( talk) 05:18, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: The Rambling Man ( talk · contribs) 16:24, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
Comments
I'm quite concerned over the spread of the information which should all be in this article but seems to be across (at least) three articles. There's some work to be done here so I'm going to fail it for the moment, but I'm happy to discuss the way forward, and am content to work with the nominator to work out the best solution. The Rambling Man ( talk) 16:37, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
Most issues addressed, with the exception of lead, merger, and gallery. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:38, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
I propose that various articles or sections of articles are merged into this as there appears to be some unnecessary forking and duplication going on. Specifically, information from:
should be merged here. The Rambling Man ( talk) 08:43, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
It's not about counting votes (although four people are in favour of a merge, vs two against) it's about assessing consensus and paying heed to guidelines such as avoiding unnecessary forks. As for merging non-GA material, that's utterly irrelevant. Seems that the split was designed to create more GAs! The Rambling Man ( talk) 10:10, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:55, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
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(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 01:13, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
In December 2017 the book "To Live Well is to Hide Well"[32] explains the crash as completely 'deliberate sabotage' with proof and not as found by the IPN. Under orders with the OW JZ, Polish Military man Bronislaw Urbanski, a member of the OW ZJ 'Lizard Union' before it merged with the NSZ. Later Bronislaw became the ‘King Assassin’ for the Polish Government in Exile with orders located in England using various pseudonyms. He also was under the directions of Zbigniew Szubanski in Unit 993/W of the A.K. The book is based on Bronislaw's true life story and his detailed confessions. The book describes in detail why, who and exactly how this was done in Gibraltar without any detection to this very day. The method used to down the plane so quickly and leave no evidence has been verified by Garth Barnard Investigator and Producer of 'Sikorski's Last Flight' with WW2 Air Crash Investigators in 2017.
It is based on one source and there is no indication how reliable it is. 194.157.77.194 ( talk) 07:45, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
Adding that '...the British weren't stupid enough to allow 'any Tom, Dick, or Harry' to wander......' that is unless you were one of General Sikorski's 12 x bodyguards and were sent by the British from the Polish Government in Exile situated in London!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.168.205.223 ( talk) 05:18, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
This book has been revised and has many expert and scholary reviews.
Bronislaw Urbanski 02:53, 17 January 2021 (UTC) — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Youngbruno (
talk •
contribs)
Re: [1]. Given the controversy and conspiracy theory (or theories, Władysław Sikorski's death controversy), the list of all passengers is informative to our readers. It is also referenced. An essay on style should not overrule prior consensus and result in censoring of referenced and relevant information from the article. In either case, only Lock and Pinder don't have an article; the others have it (on pl wikipedia). But Lock and Pinder are not nobodies; they are discussed in literature on this crash (ex. in a footnote here [2] - sorry, Polish, and snippet view). -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:58, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
Instead of the prevarication, let's just look for a local consensus. Should individuals who don't have articles on en.wiki be listed in the "List of passengers"? The Rambling Man ( talk) 18:06, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
Much of the content overlaps. The controversy belongs in the article about the crash (or vice versa). Sandstein 13:55, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
Notified Wikiprojects WP:MILHIST and WP:DEATH for more input. starship .paint ( talk) 13:22, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
"Jerzy Zięborak thinks that Prchal lied on purpose about the Mae West lifejacket." This is the only mention in the article of a lifejacket. What did Prchal say about it, and why does Zieborak think he lied? 71.235.184.247 ( talk) 11:36, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
I removed this from Władysław Sikorski for WP:OTHERSTUFF and WP:PROMO. There may be something salvageable from it and vmt to Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus for the suggestion that if so it belongs here. The removed material is below. Regards to all, Springnuts ( talk) 21:43, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
In August 2020 Canadian Aeronautical expert and mechanic Chris Wroblewski combined with WW2 Air Crash Investigator - Britain's Garth Barnard (who produced 'Sikorski's Last Flight') [1] used scientific aeronautical analysis results produced a series of physical Trials [2] based upon a model of Sikorski's plane (AL523). The Trials proved that the method outlined in the book by author Peter Urbanski 'To Live Well is to Hide Well' [3] was the sole reason for the plane's crash.
References
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please note FABRICATION and the man DIED before the IPN (Polish) Official investigation 2009. It is wrong and absurd to put someones comments that died before the official investigation that said it was still ongoing. The author who wrote this is trying to change history that it was an accident.
See and please delete reference to him. Do YOUR RESEARCH HE DIED BEFORE THE OFFICIAL COMMENTS OF THE POLISH GOVERNMENT
......However, as Roman Wapiński noted in his biographical entry on Sikorski in the Polish Biographical Dictionary in 1997, no conclusive evidence of any wrongdoing had been found, and Sikorski's official cause of death was listed as an accident.[1]..... Bronislaw Urbanski 01:11, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
The biggest problem Wikipedia faces is = blind faith as Poland will refuse the truth as they do not wish to hear that a Polish Intelligence officer took out their leader. They want to blame the Russians as I would want to. What to you do Wikipedia, tell the truth or lie now and create fake stories to soothe Polish people? I would tell the truth.
Zofia's name is written twice. 37.30.12.111 ( talk) 08:56, 14 February 2024 (UTC)