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What a remarkable example of Polonocentrism. Were not NKVD prisoners massacred elsewhere? -- Ghirla -трёп- 13:35, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
I've put up this article for deletion for the following reasons:
Zealander 05:20, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Katyn is not the same. This is a different massacre. -- Molobo 11:47, 26 May 2006 (UTC) Here is an example: Richard Rhodes Masters of Death: The SS-Einsatzgruppen and the Invention of the Holocaust: Quote: “Despite the deportations, Barbarossa surprised the NKVD, whose jails and prisons in the invaded western territories were crowded with political prisoners. Rather that release their prisoners as they hastened to retreat during the first week of the war, the Soviet secret police had simply slaughtered them. NKVD prisoner executions in the first week after Barbarossa totaled some ten thousand in the western Ukraine and more than nine thousand in Vinnitsa, eastward toward Kiev; comparable numbers of prisoners were executed in eastern Poland, Byelorussia, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. These areas had already sustained losses numbering in the hundreds of thousands from the Stalinist purges of 1937-38. “It was not only the numbers of the executed,” historian Yury Boshyk writes of the evacuation murders, “but also the manner in which they died that shocked the populace. When the families of the arrested rushed to the prisons after the Soviet evacuation, they were aghast to find bodies so badly mutilated that many could not be identified. It was evident that many of the prisoners had been tortured before death; others were killed en masse.” In some cases, cells crowded with prisoners had been dynamited, badly mutilating the remains.” -- Molobo 14:49, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
I also nominate this article for deletion. It's a blemish on the credibility of the wiki foundation.
-G
During the RfD process it's been suggested that we moved this article to some better, more specific title. Indeed, the NKVD did massacre their prisoners in a variety of cases and not only in 1941 (Katyn in 1940, Soviet soldiers fighting for the Germans in 1945 and so on), so this page might indeed be turned into a disambiguation. However, what could be the best title to move this article to? Any ideas? // Halibu tt 19:38, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
I would prefer the article title to be corresponded to the content, thus, NKVD massacre of Polish prisoners or NKVD massacre of prisoners from Poland. I do not like NKVD massacre of prisoners, 1941 as we would needed NKVD massacre of prisoners, 1940, NKVD massacre of prisoners, 1939, NKVD massacre of prisoners, 1938, NKVD massacre of prisoners, 1937, etc. Accodring to "Memorial" organization, they compile the list of 1mln50 thousand people executed by NKVD, most of them were executed in "massacre"-style fashion. It is a huge job to write the reasonable description of all the events, and it is not ready for now. Maybe we should start a wikiproject or something. The current article deals with Polish massacres and lets it be named accordingly abakharev 22:59, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
Vinnitsa wasn't in Soviet occupied Poland but in Soviet controlled Ukraine. -- Molobo 13:34, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
But it is worth mentioning that many Poles lived there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.22.98.210 ( talk) 11:33, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
I find the current title awkward. How about NKVD prisoner massacres? Appleseed ( Talk) 18:41, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
NKVD prisoner massacres happend also in Romania/Moldova.-- Tones benefit 20:20, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm unable to figure out from the article. What was the motive for the massacres? Jay ( talk) 14:12, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
I think I just read the links about the Soviet Union, Stalin and the NKVD, to find the cause of the massacres.
Soviet prisoners were not random people, only selected. That is the meaning of communism, and Stalinism in particular, that individuals irreformable, promising not to change beliefs and political views must exterminate. Possible to re-educate the person sent to labor camps. Moreover, in conditions of war, evacuation, together with prisoners is not always possible, and letting go free to their homes could potentially strengthen the enemy .... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.22.98.210 ( talk) 11:45, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
In contrast to other sections, this section tells nothing about NKVD prisoners massacres. In addition, the massacres in former Polish cities (e.g. in Lwow) are already described in other sections. This section should be either removed as irrelevant, or some materials from Ukraine, Lithuania and Belasussia sections should be moved there.-- Paul Siebert ( talk) 20:11, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
The massacres were documented by German authorities and used in anti-Soviet and anti-Jewish propaganda. Xx236 ( talk) 10:50, 21 October 2009 (UTC) http://www.zeit.de/2001/26/200126_a-lemberg.xml Xx236 ( talk) 11:24, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
German propaganda does not change the fact that they are authentic Stalinist crimes documented in the Soviet archives. The Nazis, despite their intentions, were telling the truth about the crimes of the Soviet Union. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.22.98.210 ( talk) 11:31, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
The NKVD successfully evacuated more than 140,000 prisoners and allegedly killed more than 10,000.
The article contains:
"Not all prisoners were murdered; some of them were abandoned or managed to escape because the retreating, panicked Soviet executioners logistically could not kill all of them"
In fact, the vast majority of prisoners were safely evacuated eastwards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.51.171.124 ( talk) 08:39, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
The crimes took place probably before the war. More sources are needed. Xx236 ( talk) 14:11, 4 November 2015 (UTC) A similar list [1] Xx236 ( talk) 10:07, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
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The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:
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Is there any reason to state that the NKVD massacres 'culminated in the Lviv pogroms, which, from what I can tell, were conducted by the OUN and the Nazis, after they drove the Soviets from the City? If there is a historical reason for this connection, it should be clarified, otherwise I feel this section should be changed to state that the NKVD massacres immediately preceded the Lviv pogroms after the Nazis took control of the city. 76.82.237.1 ( talk) 20:46, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
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What a remarkable example of Polonocentrism. Were not NKVD prisoners massacred elsewhere? -- Ghirla -трёп- 13:35, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
I've put up this article for deletion for the following reasons:
Zealander 05:20, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Katyn is not the same. This is a different massacre. -- Molobo 11:47, 26 May 2006 (UTC) Here is an example: Richard Rhodes Masters of Death: The SS-Einsatzgruppen and the Invention of the Holocaust: Quote: “Despite the deportations, Barbarossa surprised the NKVD, whose jails and prisons in the invaded western territories were crowded with political prisoners. Rather that release their prisoners as they hastened to retreat during the first week of the war, the Soviet secret police had simply slaughtered them. NKVD prisoner executions in the first week after Barbarossa totaled some ten thousand in the western Ukraine and more than nine thousand in Vinnitsa, eastward toward Kiev; comparable numbers of prisoners were executed in eastern Poland, Byelorussia, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. These areas had already sustained losses numbering in the hundreds of thousands from the Stalinist purges of 1937-38. “It was not only the numbers of the executed,” historian Yury Boshyk writes of the evacuation murders, “but also the manner in which they died that shocked the populace. When the families of the arrested rushed to the prisons after the Soviet evacuation, they were aghast to find bodies so badly mutilated that many could not be identified. It was evident that many of the prisoners had been tortured before death; others were killed en masse.” In some cases, cells crowded with prisoners had been dynamited, badly mutilating the remains.” -- Molobo 14:49, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
I also nominate this article for deletion. It's a blemish on the credibility of the wiki foundation.
-G
During the RfD process it's been suggested that we moved this article to some better, more specific title. Indeed, the NKVD did massacre their prisoners in a variety of cases and not only in 1941 (Katyn in 1940, Soviet soldiers fighting for the Germans in 1945 and so on), so this page might indeed be turned into a disambiguation. However, what could be the best title to move this article to? Any ideas? // Halibu tt 19:38, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
I would prefer the article title to be corresponded to the content, thus, NKVD massacre of Polish prisoners or NKVD massacre of prisoners from Poland. I do not like NKVD massacre of prisoners, 1941 as we would needed NKVD massacre of prisoners, 1940, NKVD massacre of prisoners, 1939, NKVD massacre of prisoners, 1938, NKVD massacre of prisoners, 1937, etc. Accodring to "Memorial" organization, they compile the list of 1mln50 thousand people executed by NKVD, most of them were executed in "massacre"-style fashion. It is a huge job to write the reasonable description of all the events, and it is not ready for now. Maybe we should start a wikiproject or something. The current article deals with Polish massacres and lets it be named accordingly abakharev 22:59, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
Vinnitsa wasn't in Soviet occupied Poland but in Soviet controlled Ukraine. -- Molobo 13:34, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
But it is worth mentioning that many Poles lived there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.22.98.210 ( talk) 11:33, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
I find the current title awkward. How about NKVD prisoner massacres? Appleseed ( Talk) 18:41, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
NKVD prisoner massacres happend also in Romania/Moldova.-- Tones benefit 20:20, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm unable to figure out from the article. What was the motive for the massacres? Jay ( talk) 14:12, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
I think I just read the links about the Soviet Union, Stalin and the NKVD, to find the cause of the massacres.
Soviet prisoners were not random people, only selected. That is the meaning of communism, and Stalinism in particular, that individuals irreformable, promising not to change beliefs and political views must exterminate. Possible to re-educate the person sent to labor camps. Moreover, in conditions of war, evacuation, together with prisoners is not always possible, and letting go free to their homes could potentially strengthen the enemy .... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.22.98.210 ( talk) 11:45, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
In contrast to other sections, this section tells nothing about NKVD prisoners massacres. In addition, the massacres in former Polish cities (e.g. in Lwow) are already described in other sections. This section should be either removed as irrelevant, or some materials from Ukraine, Lithuania and Belasussia sections should be moved there.-- Paul Siebert ( talk) 20:11, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
The massacres were documented by German authorities and used in anti-Soviet and anti-Jewish propaganda. Xx236 ( talk) 10:50, 21 October 2009 (UTC) http://www.zeit.de/2001/26/200126_a-lemberg.xml Xx236 ( talk) 11:24, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
German propaganda does not change the fact that they are authentic Stalinist crimes documented in the Soviet archives. The Nazis, despite their intentions, were telling the truth about the crimes of the Soviet Union. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.22.98.210 ( talk) 11:31, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
The NKVD successfully evacuated more than 140,000 prisoners and allegedly killed more than 10,000.
The article contains:
"Not all prisoners were murdered; some of them were abandoned or managed to escape because the retreating, panicked Soviet executioners logistically could not kill all of them"
In fact, the vast majority of prisoners were safely evacuated eastwards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.51.171.124 ( talk) 08:39, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
The crimes took place probably before the war. More sources are needed. Xx236 ( talk) 14:11, 4 November 2015 (UTC) A similar list [1] Xx236 ( talk) 10:07, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
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The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussions at the nomination pages linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 04:11, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
Is there any reason to state that the NKVD massacres 'culminated in the Lviv pogroms, which, from what I can tell, were conducted by the OUN and the Nazis, after they drove the Soviets from the City? If there is a historical reason for this connection, it should be clarified, otherwise I feel this section should be changed to state that the NKVD massacres immediately preceded the Lviv pogroms after the Nazis took control of the city. 76.82.237.1 ( talk) 20:46, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
References